From Gianettabrh@lisamansy.com Mon Oct 01 00:08:52 2007
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From: "Kayla Gianetta" <Gianettabrh@lisamansy.com>
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Subject: omonemic
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:08:49 +0100
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Good day ccamp-archive

Alert to all investors!
Look at D-M-X-C!
5-day price: ~$0.50

Check it at 31.09.2007
ommagov
oludno
omreht
omoitsuk
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Good day ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Alert to all investors!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Look at D-M-X-C!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>5-day price: ~$0.50</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Check it at 31.09.2007</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>ommagov</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>oludno</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>omreht</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>omoitsuk</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Troy201@abi2001-oelde.de Mon Oct 01 01:37:10 2007
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From: "Troy Eftoda" <Troy201@abi2001-oelde.de>
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Subject: haehni
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 01:37:28 -0400
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Good day ccamp-archive

Alert to all investors!
Look at D-M-X-C!
5-day price: ~$0.50

Check it at 31.09.2007
gyosei
haeuft
hafe
haissik
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Alert to all investors!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Look at D-M-X-C!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>5-day price: ~$0.50</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Check it at 31.09.2007</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>gyosei</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>haeuft</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hafe</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>haissik</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From colleen@eurosport.com Mon Oct 01 05:17:38 2007
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From: "ado aeneas" <colleen@eurosport.com>
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Subject: Trade smart! Trade with us! Make 350% profit per year!
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:29:55 +0000
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From kareemkazmierczak@mvpnetwork.com Mon Oct 01 06:04:32 2007
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From: "kareem kazmierczak" <kareemkazmierczak@mvpnetwork.com>
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Subject: touteki
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Morning, ccamp-archive

Alert, alert, alert!
Start trade D.M.X.C
Five day price: ~$0.50

tpunktet
traehana
trahreve
toyokiti
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Morning, ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Alert, alert, alert!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Start trade D.M.X.C</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Five day price: ~$0.50</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>tpunktet</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>traehana</FONT></DIV>
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From bdstl22ovfo@eds.com Mon Oct 01 06:55:31 2007
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From peter.karlsson@eknt.net Mon Oct 01 08:55:34 2007
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From: "Elena Gordon" <peter.karlsson@eknt.net>
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Subject: Retail Price: $6720.00 You save - $6590.05 Autocad 2008
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 01 08:57:11 2007
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Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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From: "Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)" <giomarti@cisco.com>
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Cc: "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>
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Hi Greg,
=20



________________________________

	From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
	Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 21.47
	To: Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)
	Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
	Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
=09
=09
	Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read.  Looks like you caught some =
problems with the text.  See below for comments.
=09
	Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20

		Hi Greg,
		=20
		Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a =
while so yes, it's interesting. Before going on specific issue I would =
have some question/clarification regarding the draft itself.=20
		=20
		=20
		* Within Abstract and the following.
		You don't talk about Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing =
or understated somewhere?

	-->Whoops.  We were trying to find a more general term to include both =
ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a completely =
symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases.  =
Talked with some equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that =
seemed to incorporate both so we made sure the model could deal with =
both sparse and dense potential connectivity. Diego had some terminology =
ideas but lately his e-mails have been bouncing back to me.  Any =
suggestions are appreciated, but we are including both ROADM and OXCs.=20
	=20

My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and picture =
used later on the draft. At  least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a =
matter of terminology.

=20

		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.1 where you state:=20
		"A fixed mapping between the=20
		GMPLS label space and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "
		Does it implies a sort of network level label space? How relate with =
usual local label significance?

	--> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and wavelengths/lambda, =
just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the ITU-T G.707 "S, U, K, L, M =
" identification of SDH time slots to a label format in RFC4606 and =
again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time slot =
identification into a technology specific label format.  In RFC3471 for =
lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning attached. =
Every network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in =
a different way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 =
lead and using the ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a =
fixed association between labels and lambdas just like between labels =
and TDM time slots in the SDH/ODU case.
=09
	This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In the wavelength =
switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or absence of =
wavelength converters.=20
	=20

Ok. Local significance  but global semantic (as pointed out by Adrian in =
a previous mail).=20


		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.4 Wavelength Converters=20
		"Current or envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : ..."
		Could we think to a description/model for wavelength converter that is =
technology agnostic? Simply something like: full conversion capability, =
partial conversion capability with some constrains, and may be others.

	--> The difference, between the all optical techniques and the OEO =
based techniques makes that difficult.
=09

		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.4. the following:=20
		"4. Wavelength converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =

		based on the modulation format and transmission speed"=20
		Not clear to me the type of restriction here when OEO happens... =
probably I'm missing what you mean here.

	--> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter would be =
build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and =
the symbol rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will be fairly independent of these issues (except when we =
look at impairment factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be =
more signal specific than the all optical.=20
	=20

ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a general model as =
you marked  with TBD.=20


		=20
		=20
		* Section 4.1 when you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:
		"Lightpath connection duration has typically been thought of as=20
		approximately three time frames: "=20
		and the following you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.
		Why there's a need of this classification? When you us Short/long is =
compared to what?

	--> In most of the research literature and in optimization practice =
different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static (or =
psuedo static cases).  In MPLS there is minimum interference routing =
optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of =
connections.  In the RWA literature there is a similar differentiation.  =
Exactly what information could be sent to help PCE differentiate I'm not =
sure. In the case of static, batch optimization we can just use the =
existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an individual =
lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want to put into optimize it.=20
	=20

ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for the moment.
=20
Thanks,
Giovanni


		=20
		=20
		minor typo on your mail below: point (c) rfc4328 (not 4238) right?

	--> Yes.  The G.709 signaling extensions RFC.
=09

		=20
		Thanks,
		Giovanni

	=09
		=20

________________________________

			From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
			Sent: gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42
			To: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
			Subject: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
		=09
		=09
			Hi folks, I haven't seen too many comments on our draft "Framework =
for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength Switched Optical Networks" ( =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-swit=
ched-01.txt). So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial =
issues that the draft brings up.=20
		=09
			(a) The draft brings up models for the following WDM network =
elements:
		=09

			1.	WDM links=20
			2.	Optical transmitters
			=09
			3.	Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
			4.	ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20

			    For items (3) and (4) we are taking the modeling lead rather than =
some other SDO.  And for ROADMs, in particular, we going beyond the =
classic ITU-T "fabric" model (M.3100) which has been the mainstay of any =
connection oriented switch (TDM, ATM, MPLS).
		=09
			(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but three) different =
computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and PCE protocols:
		=09

			1.	A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
			2.	Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a different =
PCE computes the wavelength assignment=20
			3.	A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is accomplished =
in a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set objects)=20

			    Do we really need all three models?
		=09
			(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section and Optical =
Channels.  RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for G.709  (Optical =
Transport Network) control.  Weren't we finished with all this optical =
stuff years ago?
		=09
			I'd like to think the draft answers some of these questions.  I also =
think that network element models and the process models are important =
enough to warrant this separate framework document.  Your opinions are =
solicited.
		=09
			Regards
		=09
			Greg B.
		=09
			--=20
			=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
			Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
		=09
			   =20


	--=20
	=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
	Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=09


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Greg,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein=20
  [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> venerd=EC 28 =
settembre=20
  2007 21.47<BR><B>To:</B> Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
ccamp;=20
  pce@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Pce] Some key issues with =
Wavelength=20
  Switched Optical Networks...<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read.&nbsp; Looks like =
you caught=20
  some problems with the text.&nbsp; See below for =
comments.<BR><BR>Giovanni=20
  Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=3DGENERATOR>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Hi=20
Greg,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">Sorry for the=20
    delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a while so yes, =
it's=20
    interesting. Before going on specific issue I would have some=20
    question/clarification regarding the draft itself. =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>* =
Within Abstract=20
    and the following.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>You =
don't talk about=20
    Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing or understated=20
    somewhere?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt;Whoops.&nbsp; We were trying to find a more general term to =
include=20
  both ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a =
completely=20
  symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone=20
  with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases.&nbsp; Talked =
with some=20
  equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that seemed to =
incorporate both=20
  so we made sure the model could deal with both sparse and dense =
potential=20
  connectivity. Diego had some terminology ideas but lately his e-mails =
have=20
  been bouncing back to me.&nbsp; Any suggestions are appreciated, but =
we are=20
  including both ROADM and OXCs.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and =
picture=20
used later on the draft. At&nbsp; least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general=20
case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a matter of=20
terminology.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.1=20
    where you state: </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"A fixed=20
    mapping between the </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>GMPLS label space=20
    and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Does =
it implies a=20
    sort of network level label space? How relate with usual local label =

    significance?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; This mapping gives a mapping between labels and=20
  wavelengths/lambda, just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the =
ITU-T G.707=20
  "S, U, K, L, M " identification of SDH time slots to a label format in =
RFC4606=20
  and again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time =
slot=20
  identification into a technology specific label format.&nbsp; In =
RFC3471 for=20
  lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning =
attached. Every=20
  network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in a =
different=20
  way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 lead and =
using the=20
  ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a fixed association =
between=20
  labels and lambdas just like between labels and TDM time slots in the =
SDH/ODU=20
  case.<BR><BR>This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In =
the=20
  wavelength switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or =
absence=20
  of wavelength converters.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Ok. Local significance&nbsp; but global semantic (as pointed =
out by=20
Adrian in a previous mail).</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.4=20
    Wavelength Converters </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>"Current or=20
    envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : =
..."</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Could we&nbsp;<SPAN=20
    class=3D312013122-27092007>think to </SPAN>a description/model for =
wavelength=20
    converter that is technology agnostic?&nbsp;<SPAN=20
    class=3D312013122-27092007>S</SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D312013122-27092007>imply=20
    s</SPAN>omething like: full conversion capability, partial =
conversion=20
    capability with some constrains, and may be=20
  others.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>--&gt; The difference, between the =
all=20
  optical techniques and the OEO based techniques makes that =
difficult.<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.4.=20
    the following: </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"4. Wavelength=20
    converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">based on the=20
    modulation format and transmission speed" </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Not =
clear to me the=20
    type of restriction here when OEO happens... probably I'm missing =
what you=20
    mean here.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter =
would be=20
  build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares=20
  about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and the =
symbol=20
  rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will=20
  be fairly independent of these issues (except when we look at =
impairment=20
  factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be more signal specific =
than=20
  the all optical.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ok&nbsp;more clear now, although it would be nice having&nbsp;a =
general=20
model as you marked&nbsp; with TBD.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>* =
Section 4.1 when=20
    you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"Lightpath=20
    connection duration has typically been thought of as =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">approximately=20
    three time frames: " </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>and =
the following=20
    you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Why =
there=92s a need=20
    of this classification? When you us Short/long is compared to=20
    what?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; In most of the research literature and in optimization =
practice=20
  different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static =
(or=20
  psuedo static cases).&nbsp; In MPLS there is minimum interference =
routing=20
  optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could=20
  apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of=20
  connections.&nbsp; In the RWA literature there is a similar=20
  differentiation.&nbsp; Exactly what information could be sent to help =
PCE=20
  differentiate I'm not sure. In the case of static, batch optimization =
we can=20
  just use the existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an =
individual=20
  lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the=20
  connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want=20
  to put into optimize it.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for =
the=20
moment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Giovanni</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D312013122-27092007><FONT=20
    face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>minor typo on your mail below: point =
(c) rfc4328=20
    (not 4238) right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>--&gt; Yes.&nbsp; =
The G.709=20
  signaling extensions RFC.<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2>Giovanni</FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
      <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
      <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein [<A=20
      class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com">mailto:gregb@grotto-networkin=
g.com</A>]=20
      <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42<BR><B>To:</B> =
ccamp; <A=20
      class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
      href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Pce] Some=20
      key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical=20
      Networks...<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi folks, I haven't seen too many =
comments=20
      on our draft "Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength =
Switched=20
      Optical Networks" ( <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelen=
gth-switched-01.txt"=20
      =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernst=
ein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt</A>).=20
      So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial issues =
that the=20
      draft brings up. <BR><BR>(a) The draft brings up models for the =
following=20
      WDM network elements:<BR>
      <OL>
        <LI>WDM links=20
        <LI>Optical transmitters<BR>
        <LI>Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
        <LI>ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20
      </LI></OL>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For items (3) and (4) we are taking =
the=20
      modeling lead rather than some other SDO.&nbsp; And for ROADMs, in =

      particular, we going beyond the classic ITU-T "fabric" model =
(M.3100)=20
      which has been the mainstay of any connection oriented switch =
(TDM, ATM,=20
      MPLS).<BR><BR>(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but =
three)=20
      different computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and =
PCE=20
      protocols:<BR>
      <OL>
        <LI>A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
        <LI>Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a =
different PCE=20
        computes the wavelength assignment=20
        <LI>A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is =
accomplished in=20
        a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set =
objects)=20
      </LI></OL>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we really need all three=20
      models?<BR><BR>(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section =
and=20
      Optical Channels.&nbsp; RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for=20
      G.709&nbsp; (Optical Transport Network) control.&nbsp; Weren't we =
finished=20
      with all this optical stuff years ago?<BR><BR>I'd like to think =
the draft=20
      answers some of these questions.&nbsp; I also think that network =
element=20
      models and the process models are important enough to warrant this =

      separate framework document.&nbsp; Your opinions are=20
      solicited.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Greg B.<BR><PRE =
class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature =
cols=3D"72">--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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From: "Diego Caviglia" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
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Hi Igor hi Greg,

                      I think this is a very interesting discussion. =20

=20

IMHO the point Igor raised is on the boundary between network planning =
and circuit provisioning I mean the decision to have a node with/without =
conversion capability is a planning decision, likely dependent by a =
given traffic forecast and a physical topology.  Moreover the same =
consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that an LSP =
needs 3R due to optical impairments.

=20

A possible solution to say that loopback are not allowed and thus if an =
LSP for some reason needs a loopback the PCE must return an error.  This =
information can be used to improve the wavelength conversion/3R =
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter.  The other solution is to allow loopback. =20

=20

Best Regards


Diego

=20

 =20

=20

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Greg Bernstein
Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 23.44
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...

=20

Very good catch Igor. See in line.

Igor Bryskin wrote:=20

--snip--=20






=20

2. Considering wavelength conversion inevitably brings to the problem of =
looped paths, which is a completely new ball game in path computation, =
and I am surprised that the issue was never mentioned in the draft.

--> How is this different from the "looping" that can occur with a TDM =
multiplexer in a drop and continue mode?  Also in these two circuit =
cases (TDM, and optical) do we have the same danger as in the packet =
case where looping traffic can greatly degrade other flows.  Was there =
some general looping concerns already published for GMPLS with respect =
to circuits? =20

=20

IB>> There is a profound difference. I am not talking here about =
accidental looping, rather about deliberate looping: if some nodes can =
perform wavelength conversion while others can not, then you will want =
to route the connection to one or several conversion points and after =
that get it back on the main path. In other words you will deliberately =
request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS RSVP-TE to =
signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of work =
for both PCE and RSVP.

--> I thought you were worried about accidental loops.  I didn't even =
consider what you are talking about "looping", but would RSVP processing =
get fouled up? It sure looks like a loop at the "node" level.=20
In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could definitely be =
repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. This is =
definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM case.  =
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!



=20

Cheers,=20

Igor

=20

________________________________

--snip--



--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Igor hi =
Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I think this is a
very interesting discussion. =A0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>IMHO the point Igor raised is on =
the
boundary between network planning and circuit provisioning I mean the =
decision to
have a node with/without conversion capability is a planning decision, =
likely
dependent by a given traffic forecast and a physical topology. =
=A0Moreover the
same consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that =
an LSP
needs 3R due to optical impairments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A possible solution to say that =
loopback
are not allowed and thus if an LSP for some reason needs a loopback the =
PCE must
return an error. =A0This information can be used to improve the =
wavelength conversion/3R
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter.=A0
The other solution is to allow loopback.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best =
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight=
:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org =
[mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Bernstein<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> venerd=EC 28 =
settembre 2007
23.44<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Igor Bryskin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> ccamp; =
pce@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Pce] Some =
key issues
with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Very good catch Igor. See in line.<br>
<br>
Igor Bryskin wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><u1:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PersonName"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
  <u1:shapedefaults u2:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026"/>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
  <u1:shapelayout u3:ext=3D"edit">
   <u1:idmap u3:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1"/>
  </u1:shapelayout>
</xml><![endif]--></u1:SmartTagType>--snip--</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u5:p></u5:p><u5:p>&nbsp;</u5:p></sp=
an></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2. Considering wavelength =
conversion
inevitably brings to the problem of looped paths, which is a completely =
new ball
game in path computation, and I am surprised that the issue was never =
mentioned
in the draft.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--&gt; How is this different from the
&quot;looping&quot; that can occur with a TDM multiplexer in a drop and
continue mode?&nbsp; Also in these two circuit cases (TDM, and optical) =
do we
have the same danger as in the packet case where looping traffic can =
greatly
degrade other flows.&nbsp; Was there some general looping concerns =
already
published for GMPLS with respect to circuits?&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>IB&gt;&gt; There is a profound =
difference.
I am not talking here about accidental looping, rather about deliberate
looping: if some nodes can perform wavelength conversion while others =
can not,
then you will want to route the connection to one or several conversion =
points
and after that get it back on the main path. In other words you will
deliberately request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS =
RSVP-TE
to signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of =
work for
both PCE and RSVP.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--&gt; I thought you were worried about =
accidental
loops.&nbsp; I didn't even consider what you are talking about
&quot;looping&quot;, but would RSVP processing get fouled up? It sure =
looks
like a loop at the &quot;node&quot; level. <br>
In the ERO the &quot;node&quot; subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could =
definitely be
repeated, but with a different &quot;Label ERO&quot; subobject appended. =
This
is definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM =
case.&nbsp;
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u1:p></u1:p><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></sp=
an></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers, =
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Igor<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><u1=
:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--snip--<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) =
573-2237<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre></div>

</div>

</body>

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From t_conklinmm@webtv.net Mon Oct 01 13:48:16 2007
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Subject: By Rolex for 250$ or less    342
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Deborah and Adrian,

On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
in the latest version.

Yakov.





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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on the OTC.  CWTE has the =
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on =
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WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed.  CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>go well beyond our target.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on the OTC.  CWTE has the =
potential to return 5 times your money with this tight capital =
structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed.  CWTE has a =
womens line of ageless cosmetics that is overwhelming the celebrity
industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in =
this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
go well beyond our target.

ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for CWTE!
bsdiebra
burblers
buohcnik
brudeli
buotinam
byteaddr
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on =
the OTC.  C
WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed.  CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>go well beyond our target.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
CWTE!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>bsdiebra</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>burblers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>buohcnik</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>brudeli</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>buotinam</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>byteaddr</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Donatas_Ezebube@hartmann-edv.de Mon Oct 01 19:03:49 2007
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From: "Donatas Ezebube" <Donatas_Ezebube@hartmann-edv.de>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: br{ndte
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 02:03:57 +0300
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on the OTC.  CWTE has the =
potential to return 5 times your money with this tight capital =
structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed.  CWTE has a =
womens line of ageless cosmetics that is overwhelming the celebrity
industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in =
this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
go well beyond our target.

ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for CWTE!
bsrennek
buchsbau
budsmann
burchtvr
busshou
bristen
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on =
the OTC.  C
WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed.  CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>go well beyond our target.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
CWTE!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>bsrennek</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>buchsbau</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>budsmann</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>burchtvr</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>busshou</FONT></DIV>
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From luarocky@americanartclassics.com Tue Oct 02 00:41:20 2007
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From: <luarocky@americanartclassics.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: The time is now
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:41:13 +0800
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Shares Prices For FRLE Ride Up And Down As Brokers Fight To Grab Shares

Fearless International Inc.
FRLE
$0.20

FRLE was the focus of a huge share grab as money makers pushed share
prices down for bigger returns. Don't take your eye off this for the
next few days. We expect even more "heavy trading" tomorrow. You only
get a few deals like this in a year, move now and get on FRLE.




From k_maviary@attachmate.com Tue Oct 02 00:41:51 2007
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Subject: New designs released
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Huge Trading Day For FRLE As Brokers Wrestle For Price Grab

FEARLESS INTL INC
F R L E
Current: $0.20

All this media, and all this attention, with all that trading spells
huge investment opportunity. The new release of the "Fearless 44"
designs and recent media coverage has everyone watching this company
trade. This thing is building. Get ahead on this one and grab FRLE
Tuesday morning.




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 03:40:28 2007
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From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
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CC: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
        pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
References: <46FAEE2C.5040008@grotto-networking.com>	<DF7F96101FAF2A4E8856AAFB001E07C77756A1@atl-srv-mail.atl.advaoptical.com> <46FD51B9.9060909@grotto-networking.com>
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Hi Greg,

please see below

best regards,

martin

Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi Igor, see comments below.
> 
> Igor Bryskin wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I believe the draft is very useful.
>>
> --> Thanks!
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have a couple of questions comments:
>>
>>  
>>
>> 1. Section : 4.4. Traffic Grooming: Combining WSON and Higher Layer Network 
>>
>>    Optimization
>>
>>  
>>
>> How the problem of grooming of higher layer network traffic over 
>> optical trails is any different from the problem of traffic grooming 
>> in TDM (e.g. VC12 over VC4)? I mean this is a general problem of 
>> inter-layer relationship. I suggest moving all higher layer network 
>> considerations out of scope of the draft and focusing on specifics of 
>> the OCh layer.
>>
> --> Some of my co-authors agree with you on moving this section out.  
> The reason that I put it in was that the optical "Traffic Grooming" 
> problem has received a fair amount of attention in the research and 
> general technical literature and is also a driver for the use of ROADMs 
> (optical bypass).  I guess in general we've got the following 
> inter-related problems: (a) virtual network topology design, (b) lower 
> layer connection routing, (c) higher layer flow routing. In our case (b) 
> is the RWA problem, which is fairly difficult in its own right. I guess 
> I should look closely at the MLN/MRN work and see if a specific example 
> that includes RWA is mentioned.  If so then I'd feel fine removing this 
> section from the document.

Optical considerations are not explicitly covered in MRN/MLN documents
anymore, but we still talk a lot about virtual topologies in
multi-layer/region contexts.
Optical considerations were covered at the very beginning of these 
documents, at the time they were called HPN (Hybrid Photonic Networks).
http://www.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vigoureux-ccamp-gmpls-architecture-hpn-00





From NalinHowarth@thefoxes.co.uk Tue Oct 02 04:50:54 2007
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert.  CWTE just announced trading on the OTC.  CWTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight capital structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed.  CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is overwhelming the celebrity
industry.  Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in this stock.  When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
go well beyond our target.

ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for CWTE!
seedomed
sednukeb
seevirp
se'evir'
segithci
sehsimri




From MichelleFALETTI@strippi.com Tue Oct 02 08:57:18 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 11:49:21 2007
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Message-ID: <47026588.7000002@science.uva.nl>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:36:40 +0200
From: Jeroen van der Ham <vdham@science.uva.nl>
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To:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
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Hello,

The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:

>    The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
>    (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero).  The
>    TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
>    length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
>    but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets).  Nested TLVs
>    are also 32-bit aligned.  For example, a one-byte value would have
>    the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
>    to the end of the value portion of the TLV.  Unrecognized types are
>    ignored.

To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.
The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
of the (enclosing) TLV?

I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
problems.

I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
this issue.

Jeroen.





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 12:22:26 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Jeroen van der Ham" <vdham@science.uva.nl>,
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Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:14:22 +0100
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Hi Jeroen,

> The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:
>
>>    The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
>>    (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero).  The
>>    TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
>>    length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
>>    but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets).  Nested TLVs
>>    are also 32-bit aligned.  For example, a one-byte value would have
>>    the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
>>    to the end of the value portion of the TLV.  Unrecognized types are
>>    ignored.

I guess you are quoting from RFC4970 that repeats and adds to the tex in 
RFC3630?

> To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
> and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.

Sub-TLVs form part of the V of the parent TLV.

> The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
> length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
> of the (enclosing) TLV?

Hah! Nice question.

Consider that the L field has two purposes.
1. To define the actual length of the V field
2. To allow a parser to step over the whole TLV without decoding it

In order to perform the second, the operation on a TLV with multiple 
sub-TLVs it is essential that the L of the parent TLV includes all of the 
padding implicit in the sub-TLVs.

> I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> problems.

Exactly.

> I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
> worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
> this issue.

If you were quoting text from the OSPF RFCs, you might want to take this to 
the OSPF list for confirmation.

Cheers,
Adrian 






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From DeewanaBronshpitz@FleepFlop.com Tue Oct 02 14:49:39 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: "Jeroen van der Ham" <vdham@science.uva.nl>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: swallow@cisco.com
Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:14:22 BST."
             <016b01c8050f$52c37a50$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> 
From: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
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> > I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> > length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> > problems.
> 
> Exactly.

Actually 4 bytes or more (more than 3 bytes).

...George

========================================================================
George Swallow             Cisco Systems                  (978) 936-1398
                           1414 Massachusetts Avenue
                           Boxborough, MA 01719




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From bagnio@aserty.com Tue Oct 02 21:52:17 2007
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Subject: Press Release Source: Makeup com Limited  
Date: Wed, 33 Sep 2007 -02:33:02 -0300
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Company Name: Makeup com Ltd
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 22:43:45 2007
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From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "OSPF List" <ospf@ietf.org>, 
	"Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, 
	"Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, 
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Hello Mach,

Just be curious about the following:
>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;

What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.

Regards,
Peng




From thaoiftd@red4ever.com Tue Oct 02 23:14:01 2007
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From oyaery@telcordia.com Wed Oct 03 02:51:01 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 06:21:49 2007
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Hi Yakov,

Could you explain why we would want to adopt 
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) 
rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt

The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. 
Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. Your 
introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and if that is 
a representative application then your scope is identical to the Vasseur 
draft.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
<dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
<dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
document


> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> in the latest version.
>
> Yakov.
>
> 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 09:44:23 2007
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
        Dimitri Papadimitriou <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>,
        Jean-Louis Le Roux <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>,
        Martin Vigoureux <Martin.Vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>,
        "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: Re: Last call completed on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt
References: <003801c7ffb8$86c94070$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Hi Adrian

Thank you for your comments. We will update the ids on reqs and eval for 
mln according to ITU's comments and yours. I think that we can start 
with the mln solution id now.

Let me respond to your comments in short...

Regarding the renaming the virual TE-link, I would prefer keep it 
because RFC4397 already defines it.

Regarding the adaptaion capabilities in place of switching capabilities, 
we will clarify it. We will consider the solution in revising the 
solution i-d.

Regarding the virtual node model, it might be a solution to represent 
the inter-layer connectivity. We will consider it in revising the 
solution i-d.

Anyway we will revise the ids.
Thanks,
Kohei

> Hi,
> 
> Working group last call completed on 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt with a few comments to consider.
> 
> The question was raised about the naming of "virtual TE links." It was 
> suggested that "potential" be considered as a more appropriate word, 
> partly because of the existing overload of "virtual" in various 
> contexts, and partly to tie in with the ASON use of terminology. Could 
> the authors please think about this and propose a resolution.
> 
> We also received some comments from the ITU-T in their liaison 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/368/. They raise some issues for 
> our consideration and the authors need to address these points so that 
> they can update the I-D if necessary, and so we can respond to the ITU-T 
> as necessary.
> 
> Adaptation
> - They suggest that we should include a definition of Adaptation.
> - They suggest advertising the adaptation capability/ies of a link in 
> place of the switching capabilities. I am confused by this because I 
> would have thought that both pieces of information are needed. It may be 
> that the ITU-T are assuming that the technology layer is known a priori. 
> It is certainly the case that multiple switching or adaptation 
> capabilities should be able to be advertised on a single link, and I 
> think this is in the I-Ds, but maybe it needs clarification.
> - Abstract representations of layers and adaptations may be 
> advantageous. Although this might be a solution-specific issue, if there 
> are requirements they should be drawn out.
> 
> Virtual Node
> The ITU-T suggests that the virtual node model might be applied as a 
> solution architecture alongside the virtual links. Maybe the 
> requirements draft could include some comments on this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D
NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories
3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan
Phone +81 422 59 4402    Fax +81 422 59 3787





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:30:40 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
   "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>,
   "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:57:57 BST."
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Adrian,

> Hi Yakov,
> 
> Could you explain why we would want to adopt 
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) 
> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt

Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).

For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will 
be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.

> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. 
> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. 

As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.

> Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and 
> if that is a representative application then your scope is identical 
> to the Vasseur draft.

Yakov.

> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
> <dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
> <dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
> Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
> document
> 
> 
> > Deborah and Adrian,
> >
> > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> > in the latest version.
> >
> > Yakov.
> >
> > 
> 
> 




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:51:25 2007
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Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:41:52 +0100
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Yakov,

>> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 
>> 03)
>> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
>
> Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).

I ain't proposing nothin'

> For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.

That is probably a good reason to start with.

>> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite 
>> worrying.
>> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
>
> As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.

Two questions:

1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its 
applicability to L1VPNs?

2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
Vasseur I-D?

Thanks,
Adrian 






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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 12:49:38 2007
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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
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From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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adrian  =20

- support -=20

-d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed last=20
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have=20
> more or less=20
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this=20
> subject, we need to=20
> look for a solutions I-D.
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt=20
> has been running for some time and tracking both the=20
> requirements and the=20
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that=20
> this provides a=20
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20
> change.
>=20
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20




From bneglect@benhamad.com Wed Oct 03 13:01:42 2007
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From Norwigsrmgk@gak.pre.sch.gr Wed Oct 03 13:02:10 2007
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Day ccamp-archive
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 13:56:04 2007
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From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
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Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
problem.

For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.

Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
used. In 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>
> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
---snip---
> ===
> Section 5.2
> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
> another bit to the CS field.
> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
> not so improbable.
> So, how about...
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> ===
>
--snip--
> The two things you do need in this section are:
> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>   Label can be used.
> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>   Generalized Label Object?
> ===
> Section 6.2
> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
> availability is best removed from this I-D.
> ===
> Section 7
> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
> model, but you should mention the fact.
> ===
> Section 10
> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
> ===
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





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></P>
<P><DIV>Are you wanting a bigger p_ e >n _is? </DIV></P>
<P><DIV>As se -e -n on TV </DIV></P>
<DIV>Over 794,000 Men around the world are already satisfied</DIV>
<DIV>Gain 4+ Inches In Leng _th</DIV>
<DIV>Increase Your P _en -is Wi _dth (Girth) By up _to 27%</DIV>
<DIV>100% Safe To Take, With NO Side Effects</DIV>
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<P><DIV><A href=3D"http://tdjussp.tysonma.com">View, Before And After Resul=
ts</A></DIV></P>
<DIV>breakthrough will most definitely impact further studies into</DIV>

</BODY></HTML>

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From Adrain376@witsendtrucks.com Wed Oct 03 14:26:56 2007
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http://sisalarm.com/
Wazzup ccamp-archive
African tribes take these herbs all the time, this is why they have such =
big cocks!

Adrain Rodarte
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://sisalarm.com/">http://sisalarm.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Wazzup ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>African tribes take these herbs all the time, =
this is=20
why they have such big cocks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Adrain Rodarte</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From ndsave@wolfmailing.com Wed Oct 03 14:31:37 2007
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occur during summer rainstorms as when I was younger. People
letter to a sortation plant and sorting of the letter before the noticing t=
hem wherever you go. I now see the use of computer

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2869" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<P><DIV>newsgroups today? The resources that the media have been able to</D=
IV></P>
<P><DIV>Are you wanting a bigger p_ e >n _is? </DIV></P>
<P><DIV>As se -e -n on TV </DIV></P>
<DIV>Over 719,000 Men around the world are already satisfied</DIV>
<DIV>Gain 2+ Inches In Leng _th</DIV>
<DIV>Increase Your P _en -is Wi _dth (Girth) By up _to 25%</DIV>
<DIV>100% Safe To Take, With NO Side Effects</DIV>
<DIV>No Pu _mps! No Sur _gery! No Exercises! </DIV>
<DIV>*3 F _REE Bottles</DIV>
<P><DIV><A href=3D"http://wnto.tysonma.com">View, Before And After Results<=
/A></DIV></P>
<DIV>implies that companies will have greater flexibility in regards</DIV>

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 15:03:37 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
cc: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:41:52 BST."
             <029601c805d3$f0dd6a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> 
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Adrian,

> Yakov,
> 
> >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
> >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 
> >> 03)
> >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> >
> > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).
> 
> I ain't proposing nothin'
> 
> > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.
> 
> That is probably a good reason to start with.
> 
> >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite 
> >> worrying.
> >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
> >
> > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its 
> applicability to L1VPNs?

No, as we are not in the business of predicting the future and therefore
not in the business of limiting future applications of the I-D.

> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
> Vasseur I-D?

In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.

Yakov.




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 15:15:41 2007
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>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
>> Vasseur I-D?
> 
> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.

I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.

I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:

   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label

A





From bagwig@arcdiv.com Wed Oct 03 17:19:27 2007
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Subject: We featured it Tuesday and it exploded
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From OpheliavictoriousBartley@peoplespot.com Thu Oct 04 01:29:09 2007
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From Kauhanenfkcmm@fsi-stlouis.com Thu Oct 04 01:30:17 2007
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http://www.elllison.com/
Yo ccamp-archive
The demand for these pills is so high .. prices will go up soon

chamrone Kauhanen
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://www.elllison.com/">http://www.elllison.com/</A></FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Yo ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>The demand for these pills is so high .. =
prices will go=20
up soon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>chamrone Kauhanen</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 03:02:15 2007
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Message-ID: <47048D01.6000707@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:49:37 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Hi,

Yes, I agree to make it WG document.

Kohei

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 03:54:17 2007
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:49:09 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
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Adrian,

I do support this I-D.

martin


Adrian Farrel a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 04:01:04 2007
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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:53:42 +0200
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From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" <julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>
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Hi all.

I support this ID which deserves its WG status.

Julien


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel

Hi,

Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed =
last=20
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less=20
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we =
need to=20
look for a solutions I-D.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-e=
xtensions-04.txt=20
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and =
the=20
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides =
a=20
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20
change.

Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG =
draft.

Thanks,
Adrian=20







From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 04:07:06 2007
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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:59:45 +0200
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Hi Adrian, all

I strongly support this ID, I'm co-author :-)

Regards

JL=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] De la part de Martin Vigoureux
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 octobre 2007 09:49
> =C0 : zzx-adrian@olddog.co.uk
> Cc : ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Objet : Re: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Adrian,
>=20
> I do support this I-D.
>=20
> martin
>=20
>=20
> Adrian Farrel a =E9crit :
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed=20
> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20
> have more or=20
> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20
> this subject,=20
> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> >=20
> >=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr
> > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and=20
> tracking both=20
> > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the=20
> evaluation draft.=20
> > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in=20
> > CCAMP even if some elements might change.
> >=20
> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG draft.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20




From CorylexiconGarrett@linksys.com Thu Oct 04 04:39:40 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 04:42:24 2007
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From: "inoue.ichiro@lab.ntt.co.jp" <inoue.ichiro@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
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 <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr>
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Yes, I support.

Ichiro

 >> Adrian Farrel a $BqD(Brit :
 >> > Hi,
 >> >
 >> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have
 >> completed
 >> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we
 >> have more or
 >> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on
 >> this subject,
 >> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
 >> >
 >> >
 >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr
 >> > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and
 >> tracking both
 >> > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the
 >> evaluation draft.
 >> > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in
 >> > CCAMP even if some elements might change.
 >> >
 >> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to
 >> become a WG draft.
 >> >
 >> > Thanks,
 >> > Adrian
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >
 >>
 >> 






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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 06:30:07 2007
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:20:07 +0900
From: "FUJIHARA Kazuhiro" <kazuhiro.fujihara@ntt.com>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
In-reply-to: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Hi,

I support this ID.

Kazuhiro

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to 
> look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 

-- 
FUJIHARA Kazuhiro 






From MagnusKamberis@jael-dumm.de Thu Oct 04 06:35:55 2007
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From: "Magnus Kamberis" <MagnusKamberis@jael-dumm.de>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: tseim{{p
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 07:35:47 -0300
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From mani@pbxsoftware.com Thu Oct 04 06:51:13 2007
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To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
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From Marcolongoaimh@a1equityfinancial.com Thu Oct 04 08:57:01 2007
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From: "ast Marcolongo" <Marcolongoaimh@a1equityfinancial.com>
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From maria5weinstein@hotmail.com Thu Oct 04 09:12:22 2007
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From: "Jacob Christopher" <calsch-archive@ietf.org>
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From dmevolution@pennpower.com Thu Oct 04 09:56:25 2007
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From: Christopher Z. Simms <dmevolution@pennpower.com>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 10:01:43 2007
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:47:40 -0500
From: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
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To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: 'Adrian Farrel' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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I support this I-D. 

Young 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:32 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Proposed new working group draft

Hi,

Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to

look for a solutions I-D.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-exte
nsions-04.txt 
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
change.

Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.

Thanks,
Adrian 









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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:14 -0400
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Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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- Support -=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar =20

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM
> > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: Proposed new working group draft
> >=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed=20
> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20
> have more or=20
> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20
> this subject,=20
> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> >=20
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20
> requirements and=20
> > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20
> > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20
> > elements might change.
> >=20
> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG=20
> > draft.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20




From Obren.Harmon@eca1.com Thu Oct 04 11:48:55 2007
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From: "Obren Harmon" <Obren.Harmon@eca1.com>
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Subject: etsremah
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From Plavina-Engelmeyer@touchstone.nl Thu Oct 04 13:47:59 2007
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From okeefevltkj@principia.info Thu Oct 04 13:52:40 2007
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http://www.ebiotrae.com/
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Whats up ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Did you know.. 88% of ladies want a man that =
is big,=20
they say its more fulfilling</FONT></DIV>
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From GingerwithalMccauley@toolkit.com Thu Oct 04 14:33:20 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 04 16:07:37 2007
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I support this becoming a WG draft.   I think those interested in 
VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation 
capabilities mentioned in the draft.

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237






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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the
                          Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with 
                          Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching 
                          (GMPLS)
	Author(s)	: G. Bernstein, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt
	Pages		: 17
	Date		: 2007-10-4
	
This document describes requirements for, and use of, the Generalized 
   Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane in conjunction 
   with the Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) layer 1 inverse multiplexing 
   mechanism and its companion Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) 
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Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:02:44 -0400
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--Apple-Mail-9-630883660
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Hi,

Sorry for being late in that thread ...

On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements  
>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>
> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>
> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>
>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>

Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the  
application ... sounds
pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE  
TE LSP
is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to  
inter-domain
TE (per domain, PCE, ...). My question here is why would you want to  
redefine
TE TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in  
order to
avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of interest.

Note that the current Abstract:
Abstract

    This document defines a new BGP attribute, Traffic Engineering
    attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering  
information.

is fairly general ... "carry Traffic Engineering information".

Thanks.

JP.

> A


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Hi,<div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Sorry for =
being late in that thread ...</div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 3, 2007, at =
3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2. Could you =
conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur =
I-D?</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In order for me to answer =
this question I'd like to get a clear</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.</div> =
</blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for =
him.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Just trying to find out whether =
we have two problem spaces or one.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think the abstract of his I-D =
is relatively clear:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>This document proposes MP-BGP =
protocol extension so as to convey</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Traffic Engineering Link =
characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>(Customer Edge) links in =
order to extend the visibility of the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Traffic Engineering Database =
to those links.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>This can =
then be used</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>to more efficiently compute =
CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Yakov, let me know if you =
need further clarification on the application ... =
sounds=A0</div><div>pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links =
where a CE to CE TE LSP</div><div>is needed. The path computation piece =
is then very much similar to inter-domain</div><div>TE (per domain, PCE, =
...). My question here is why would you want to redefine</div><div>TE =
TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order =
to</div><div>avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of =
interest.</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Note=
 that the current Abstract:</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
Helvetica">Abstract</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 This document defines a new BGP attribute, =
Traffic Engineering</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering =
information.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> is fairly general =
... "carry Traffic Engineering information".</div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>JP.</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A</div> =
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-9-630883660--




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From: Tomonori TAKEDA <takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Support

Tomonori

At 21:31 07/09/29, Adrian Farrel wrote:
 >Hi,
 >
 >Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need 
to look for a solutions I-D.
 >
 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change.
 >
 >Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
 >
 >Thanks,
 >Adrian
 >
 >
 > 






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From: "Itaru Nishioka" <i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com>
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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:01:17 +0900
Organization: nec
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I support this draft.

Thanks,
Itaru.
/=======================================
/ Itaru Nishioka  
/ e-mail:i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com 
/ Tel. +81-44-396-3287 ext. 8-22-72647 
/ System Platforms Research Labs. 
/ NEC Corporation 
/======================================= 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have 
> completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now 
> that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons 
> to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> has been running for some time and tracking both the 
> requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation 
> draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the 
> protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to 
> become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 





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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 05 11:14:40 2007
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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:04:37 +0200
From: Huub van Helvoort <hhelvoort@chello.nl>
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Hello,

I support progressing this document as WG draft,
for the same reasons as mentioned by Greg.

Cheers, Huub.

Greg Bernstein wrote:
=====================
> I support this becoming a WG draft.   I think those interested in 
> VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation 
> capabilities mentioned in the draft.
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
>> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
>> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
>> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
>> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
>> elements might change.
>>
>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>> draft.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian


-- 
================================================================
                   http://www.van-helvoort.eu/
================================================================
Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...




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Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500
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Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new =
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration =
times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the =
neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval =
is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts =
within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never =
detect a hello failure.=20

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on =
a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an =
issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this =
scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because =
the resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues =
sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes =
because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. =
This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no =
RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted =
because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based =
on an actual implementation and a real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 =
doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is =
there something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful =
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when =
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes =
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream =
ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D =
and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer =
expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new =
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Hi,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I have a couple of questions on =
RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in =
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Did anybody come across any =
issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple =
(typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart =
duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the =
multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then =
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">RFC3473 does describe detection =
of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the =
hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being =
generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Please look-at the sequence =
diagram below:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; N2</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart start)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart =
complete)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without =
recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (resoure allocation =
failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; X (CON =
deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (XCON deletion)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The issue is because N1 did not =
detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get =
NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state =
corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh =
message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did =
not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not =
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and =
a real test.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">What is the solution to this =
issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not =
compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have =
missed?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The other issue I wanted to =
understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the =
RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node =
restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets =
isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Example,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If =
this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get =
deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be =
prevented ?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Would appreciate your =
response.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Regards,</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Snigdho</FONT>
</P>

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Hi, For your first question, I think the key is the restarted node. 
 
As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can 
periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR 
capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the 
neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together. 
 
And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors. 
 
Do you think this way is helpful?  If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions. For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'.      As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ?      'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?
  Regards, Jiang weilian


Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsDate: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.comTo: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.Please look-at the sequence diagram below:   N1                                N2   |                                 |   |                                 X (Restart start)   |  HELLO                          |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |  SRefresh                       |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |  HELLO                          |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |                                 X (Restart complete)   |  SRefresh                       |   |-------------------------------->|   |  NACK                           |   |<--------------------------------|   |  Path (without recovery label)  |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)   |  PathErr                        |   |<--------------------------------|   |  PathTear                       |   |-------------------------------->|   X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)   |                                 | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.Example,              A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho 
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<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>Hi,</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>For your first question,&nbsp;I think the key is the restarted node. </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>request message with this&nbsp;multicast destination address, the </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>neighbor should know the source node&nbsp;has been restarted, then the two </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>nodes </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>can enter the GR Recovery stage together.&nbsp;</FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime&nbsp;the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>messages </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>from neighbors. </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>Do you think this way is helpful?&nbsp; <FONT face=Verdana size=2>If you concern this way,&nbsp;I wish you&nbsp;would read our&nbsp;draft,and give us your </FONT></FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2><FONT face=Verdana size=2>suggestions.</FONT></FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>and E restarts'.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As in your figure,&nbsp;what is the meaning that '<FONT face="Courier New">B-x...x-C</FONT>' or '<FONT face="Courier New">E-x...x-F</FONT>'&nbsp;?</FONT><BR><FONT face=Verdana size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 'node's C,D <FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>and E restarts</FONT>' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?</FONT><BR>
<FONT face=Verdana size=2>&nbsp;</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=Verdana size=2><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New">Jiang weilian</FONT></FONT><BR>
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Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions<BR>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500<BR>From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com<BR>To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org<BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. </FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Please look-at the sequence diagram below:</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; N2</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart start)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart complete)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; X (CON deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (XCON deletion)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Example,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Would appreciate your response.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Snigdho</FONT> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />²»µÇ¼¾ÍÄܹÜÀí¶à¸öÓʼþÕÊ»§£¬ÊÔÊÔ Windows Live Mail¡£ <a href='http://get.live.com/wl/all' target='_new'>Á¢¼´³¢ÊÔ£¡</a></body>
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From e_sylvestergy@starstream.net Sat Oct 06 06:16:20 2007
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From: "Ethel Sylvester" <e_sylvestergy@starstream.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 04:54:46 -0700
Reply-To: "Ethel Sylvester" <e_sylvestergy@starstream.net>
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Subject: Rep1icaRolex, Omega, Cartier, IWC, Swiss QualityWatches 6r5tx41siunmz2
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From ggillio@fiat.com Sat Oct 06 06:23:06 2007
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Hello ccamp-archive
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 06 07:22:40 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>,
	"Ccamp \(E-mail\)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D0222F53A@rchemx01.fnc.net.local>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:12:04 +0100
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Hi Snigdho,

Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.

Some thoughts...

We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it 
actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the 
same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the 
SRefresh would not fix the problem.

In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very 
small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 
completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that 
N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. 
That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
- either
    - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
  or
     - respond to any first received message from a
       neighbor with which it does not have an active
       Hello exchange by sending a Hello
- ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
  from neighbors with which it does not have an active
  Hello exchange

We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either 
mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources 
required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already 
in use.

In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource 
allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).

In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain 
"Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the 
PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of 
failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with 
"Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable 
Label Set object.

So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. 
Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv 
state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all 
of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something 
slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the 
dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else 
is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello 
if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.

In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to 
large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is 
not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The 
former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be 
treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of 
multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh 
failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed 
from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as 
second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.

I suggest:

1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without 
SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.

2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your 
questions about multiple failures.

In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and 
pointer to what they could change.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new 
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times 
the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring 
node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, 
the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then 
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a 
new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue 
with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the 
resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending 
SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there 
is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a 
Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because 
N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not 
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a 
real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing 
anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there 
something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful 
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when 
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes 
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and 
E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in 
node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 06 08:41:18 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>,
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Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt 
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Heads-up.

Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
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Subject: [Tsvwg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group Working 
> Group of the IETF.
>
>
> Title           : User-Defined Errors for RSVP
> Author(s)       : G. Swallow, et al.
> Filename        : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt
> Pages           : 8
> Date            : 2007-10-06
>
> The Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) defines an ERROR_SPEC object
> for communicating errors.  That object has a defined format that
> permits the definition of 256 error codes.  As RSVP has been
> developed and extended, the convention has been to be conservative in
> defining new error codes.  Further, no provision for user-defined
> errors exists in RSVP.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt
>
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From aigc@brain-crash.com Sat Oct 06 13:42:35 2007
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From alt@mailusb.com Sat Oct 06 17:47:27 2007
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From Eun-Mandel@ariki.co.jp Sat Oct 06 18:40:33 2007
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From agaql6cnr@egroups.com Sun Oct 07 02:02:44 2007
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From harriott@cousinos-firearms.com Sun Oct 07 10:29:44 2007
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From: "Kedro harriott" <harriott@cousinos-firearms.com>
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From rrkomega@ravenworks.net Sun Oct 07 11:07:48 2007
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From: tripod <rrkomega@ravenworks.net>
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materials and tools created by engineers and the industrial
artists, fashion designers will be affected. By the nature of A trend that =
seems to be occurring rapidly gives rise to an

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From jbumoral@kingpharm.com Sun Oct 07 13:44:39 2007
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always be able to notice something unrealistic about it, perhaps that thril=
ling. One spends all one's life in an interactive
over his/her work with a computer. The process of mixing colour

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From rkxdice@sanasys.com Sun Oct 07 13:59:36 2007
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like. You avoid other places. You meet many people. You keep in conventiona=
l forms. New technology provides capabilities to be
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<DIV>interaction and the dialouge with other users and the archutects</DIV>=


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From Klocek@quicksteporganizing.com Sun Oct 07 15:47:22 2007
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From tierradigital1_@gmail.com Sun Oct 07 18:46:22 2007
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MOTOROLA W220=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$239
ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 801=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$268
NOKIA 3120=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$300
NOKIA 3220=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$303
PANTECH 1410=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$303
SONY  ERICSSON K310=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$322
MOTOROLA W375=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$338
MOTOROLA V3=09=09KIT CTI AMIGO=09$572
A1200 NEGRO=09=09LIBERADO=09$1105
A1200 ROJO=09=09LIBERADO=09$1105
TREO 680=09=09LIBERADO=09$1423
V3 SILVER=09=09LIBERADO=09$1647
V8=09=09=09LIBERADO=09$1797
HTC GREEN  =09=09LIBERADO=09$1947

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Caballito - Capital Federa




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Our October Pick Of The Month

Fearless International (F R L E)
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We are placing FRLE on high alert for this week. Last weeks heavy
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there are rumors there will be a huge news release this week and we can
feel this one building for Monday. What ever you get done on Monday
morning, make sure FRLE is on the top of your list.




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Fearless Investors Are showing now Fear

Fearless International Inc. (F R L E)
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One of our top picks for the month, Fearless International has all the
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spike.  Beat the news to the market, get you buy set for opening bell on
Monday and watch it take off following the release.




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From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
To: Arun Satyanarayana <asatyana@cisco.com>,
 "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>,
 "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Gao, Jianhua" <gjhhit@huawei.com>
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Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsHi Snigdho,

It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.

As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.

For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy.

Regards,

Dan


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bardalai, Snigdho 
  To: Ccamp (E-mail) 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM
  Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


  Hi, 

  I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

  Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. 

  RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

  Please look-at the sequence diagram below: 

    N1                                N2 
    |                                 | 
    |                                 X (Restart start) 
    |  HELLO                          | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |  SRefresh                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |  HELLO                          | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |                                 X (Restart complete) 
    |  SRefresh                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |  NACK                           | 
    |<--------------------------------| 
    |  Path (without recovery label)  | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) 
    |  PathErr                        | 
    |<--------------------------------| 
    |  PathTear                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion) 
    |                                 | 

  The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.

  What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?

  The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

  Example, 

               A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G 

  Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

  Would appreciate your response. 

  Regards, 
  Snigdho 

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions</TITLE>
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<DIV>Hi Snigdho,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery 
process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message 
which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received 
from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh 
message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to 
address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of 
node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait 
until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be 
recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real 
deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control 
plane fails, it's a local policy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dan</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com 
  href="mailto:Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com">Bardalai, Snigdho</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>To:</B> <A title=ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
  href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">Ccamp (E-mail)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>Subject:</B> Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful 
  Restart and the new Extensions</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE 
  Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in 
  draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Did anybody come across any issues when the 
  hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large 
  compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE 
  interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts 
  within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect 
  a hello failure. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>RFC3473 does describe detection of a node 
  restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but 
  we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh 
  message in this scenario.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Please look-at the sequence diagram 
  below:</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  N2</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (Restart start)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (Restart complete)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; X (CON 
  deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (XCON deletion)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The issue is because N1 did not detect a 
  hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once 
  restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh 
  message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is 
  no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because 
  hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual 
  implementation and a real test.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>What is the solution to this issue because 
  I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the 
  current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The other issue I wanted to understand is 
  with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message 
  handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be 
  issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and 
  downstream ends.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Example,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this 
  condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted 
  after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Would appreciate your response.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>Snigdho</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 02:26:38 2007
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From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
 "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>,
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Hi,

Please see my comments below.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>; "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


> Hi Snigdho,
> 
> Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.
> 
> Some thoughts...
> 
> We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it 
> actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the 
> same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the 
> SRefresh would not fix the problem.

[dan] Agree. Changing the behavior of SRefresh message would not help.

> 
> In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very 
> small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 
> completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that 
> N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. 
> That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

[dan] The time window size depends on how quickly the restarted node sends 
out the Hello message after the communication comes back. I would like to see 
N2 ignore all received messages until it receives the ACK of the Hello message 
from N1.
 
> 
> That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
> - either
>     - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
>   or
>      - respond to any first received message from a
>        neighbor with which it does not have an active
>        Hello exchange by sending a Hello
> - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
>   from neighbors with which it does not have an active
>   Hello exchange
>

[dan] Agree with Adrian.
 
> We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either 
> mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources 
> required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already 
> in use.
> 
> In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource 
> allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).
> 
> In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain 
> "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
> In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the 
> PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of 
> failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with 
> "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable 
> Label Set object.
> 
> So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. 
> Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv 
> state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all 
> of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something 
> slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the 
> dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else 
> is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello 
> if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.
> 
> In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to 
> large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is 
> not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The 
> former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be 
> treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

[dan] Usually the traffic carried by the data plane is required not be touched
when the control plane fails. So N1 should be very careful to take any actions
to tear down the LSP.

> 
> With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of 
> multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh 
> failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed 
> from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as 
> second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.
> 
> I suggest:
> 
> 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without 
> SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.
> 
> 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your 
> questions about multiple failures.
> 
> In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and 
> pointer to what they could change.

[dan] Yes, you're welcome to send us the proposed text for GR-Description ID.

> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
> To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
> Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new 
> extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.
> 
> Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times 
> the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring 
> node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, 
> the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then 
> it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.
> 
> RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a 
> new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue 
> with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.
> 
> Please look-at the sequence diagram below:
> 
>   N1                                N2
>   |                                 |
>   |                                 X (Restart start)
>   |  HELLO                          |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |  SRefresh                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |  HELLO                          |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |                                 X (Restart complete)
>   |  SRefresh                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |  NACK                           |
>   |<--------------------------------|
>   |  Path (without recovery label)  |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the 
> resouces are in use)
>   |  PathErr                        |
>   |<--------------------------------|
>   |  PathTear                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
>   |                                 |
> 
> The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending 
> SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there 
> is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a 
> Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because 
> N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not 
> yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a 
> real test.
> 
> What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing 
> anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there 
> something I have missed?
> 
> The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful 
> restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when 
> communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes 
> nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.
> 
> Example,
> 
>              A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G
> 
> Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and 
> E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in 
> node D? Can this be prevented ?
> 
> Would appreciate your response.
> 
> Regards,
> Snigdho
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:49:25 +0200
Message-ID: <BBBE5BAA3B351C488C415EA662EA8840048F8112@ftrdmel2>
In-Reply-To: <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2>
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From: "NIGER Philippe RD-RESA-LAN" <philippe.niger@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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=20
Hi,

I support this I-D as WG draft.

Philippe.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed=20
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or

> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject,

> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and=20
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20
> elements might change.
>=20
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG=20
> draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
>=20






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 03:39:10 2007
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:22 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>,
 Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp,
 "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>,
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Hi,

If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
a hop-by-hop basis.

But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
wavelength level to choose the path.

I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
"n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
technologies. 

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt


> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
> problem.
> 
> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
> 
> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
> used. In 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
> > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
> >
> > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
> > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
> > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
> ---snip---
> > ===
> > Section 5.2
> > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
> > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
> > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
> > another bit to the CS field.
> > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
> > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
> > not so improbable.
> > So, how about...
> >       0                   1                   2                   3
> >       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> >      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
> >      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > ===
> >
> --snip--
> > The two things you do need in this section are:
> > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
> >   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
> >   Label can be used.
> > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
> >   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
> >   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
> >   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
> >   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
> >   Generalized Label Object?
> > ===
> > Section 6.2
> > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
> > availability is best removed from this I-D.
> > ===
> > Section 7
> > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
> > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
> > snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
> > model, but you should mention the fact.
> > ===
> > Section 10
> > I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
> > ===
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> ===================================================
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
> 
> 
> 




From Bryanne.butay@amrcoop.net Mon Oct 08 04:47:10 2007
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From: Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>
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To: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
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	ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>,
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Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com>
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Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,

Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.

I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
(I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)

With best regards,

Tomo


Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
> Hi,
>
> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
> a hop-by-hop basis.
>
> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
> wavelength level to choose the path.
>
> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
> technologies. 
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>
>
>   
>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
>> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
>> problem.
>>
>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
>>
>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
>> used. In 
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>>>
>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>>>       
>> ---snip---
>>     
>>> ===
>>> Section 5.2
>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
>>> another bit to the CS field.
>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
>>> not so improbable.
>>> So, how about...
>>>       0                   1                   2                   3
>>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>> ===
>>>
>>>       
>> --snip--
>>     
>>> The two things you do need in this section are:
>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>>>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>>>   Label can be used.
>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>>>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>>>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>>>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>>>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>>>   Generalized Label Object?
>>> ===
>>> Section 6.2
>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>>> availability is best removed from this I-D.
>>> ===
>>> Section 7
>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
>>> model, but you should mention the fact.
>>> ===
>>> Section 10
>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> -- 
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   






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Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
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JP,

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for being late in that thread ...

no problem :-)

> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
> >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements  
> >>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >
> > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >
> > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >
> >   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
> >   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
> >   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >
> 
> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the  
> application ... sounds
> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE  
> TE LSP
> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to  
> inter-domain
> TE (per domain, PCE, ...). 

Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.

Yakov.




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Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
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Hi Yakov,

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sorry for being late in that thread ...
>
> no problem :-)
>
>> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>
>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>>>
>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>
>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)  
>>> - CE
>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be  
>>> used
>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>
>>
>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>> application ... sounds
>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
>> TE LSP
>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
>> inter-domain
>> TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>
> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.

Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for  
the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes  
already defined for the IGPs ?

Thanks.

JP.

>
> Yakov.




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From: "Barron Lennartsson" <Barron@biority.com>
Subject: dampener
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Good morning ccamp-archive
Before him I was with a couple of larger men and I did find them more satisfying as I was able to orgasm with them

Barron Lennartsson
http://nichh.com/




From Lucian-lundsten@REALESTATIUM.COM Mon Oct 08 12:33:43 2007
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http://www.nickyperez.com/
Hello ccamp-archive
Of course size matters! I was married for 15 years to a man with a less =
than average size cock according to your data

Lucian lundsten
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Hello ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Of course size matters! I was married for 15 =
years to a=20
man with a less than average size cock according to your =
data</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Lucian lundsten</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From adeadline@newhouse.net Mon Oct 08 12:41:59 2007
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Subject: He overall
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mass-consciousness has finally delivered us too the window's of
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<P><DIV>easy to think of all the possibilities, and easier to forget that</=
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From yiaircraft@redmusic.com Mon Oct 08 12:47:21 2007
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Now that this has been said, with all of it's excitement and
'phone. Later that night, Benny cavorts dangerously on the addition such pr=
ocesses of reproduction transform the contexts of

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<P><DIV>widespread ignorance are oblivious to the manipulation of their</DI=
V></P>
<P><DIV>Are you wanting a bigger p_ e >n _is? </DIV></P>
<P><DIV>As se _e -n on T _V </DIV></P>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 14:37:51 2007
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From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,
	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>,
	ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
	ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Protocol Action: 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for 
         Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities' to Proposed 
         Standard 
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering 
   Node Capabilities '
   <draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane
Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt-05.txt

Technical Summary
 
    It is highly desired in several cases to take into account Traffic
    Engineering (TE) node capabilities during path selection for MPLS 
    and G-MPLS Traffic Engineered LSPs (ie, in picking the route 
    for the LSP), such as for instance the capability to act as a
    branch Label Switching Router (LSR) of a Point-To-MultiPoint (P2MP)
    LSP. This requires advertising these capabilities within the 
    Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP). For that purpose, this document
    specifies OSPF and IS-IS traffic engineering extensions for the
    advertisement of control plane and data plane traffic engineering 
    node capabilities.

Working Group Summary
 
    No dissent reported. The document is authored by some key CCAMP 
    WG members and received constructive comments from across the WG 
    during its development. The working group has been relatively quiet
    on this work, but the chairs judge that to be because it is "done
    and dusted". It is a small protocol feature.

    The document was shown to the OSPF and ISIS working groups more
    than once,and the last call was notified to the two IGP working
    groups.
 
Protocol Quality
 
    Ross Callon has reviewed this for the IESG. 


Note to RFC Editor

  Section 4.1, replace the first paragraph as follows:

  OLD:
    The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length
    TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability.

  NEW:
    The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length
    TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    corresponds to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended
    with additional 32-bit words if more bit flags needs to be assigned.
    Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits.

  Add the following text at the end of section 4.1, right after 
  the definition of the reserved bits:

    Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be 
    ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 4, 
    implying that there are more than 32 bits in the value field, 
    then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved.


  Section 4.2, replace the first paragraph as follows:

  OLD:
    The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length
    sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability.

  NEW:
    The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length
    sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended
    with additional bytes if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any
    unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits.

  Update the third paragraph of section 4.2 as follows: 

  OLD
    The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the
    TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS
    [RFC3784]. That is, the TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1
    octet specifying the TLV length and a value field.
  
  NEW
    The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the
    sub-TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS
    [RFC3784]. That is, the sub-TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type,
    1 octet specifying the sub-TLV length and a value field.

  Add the following text at the end of section 4.2, right after 
  the definition of the reserved bits:

    Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be 
    ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 1, 
    implying that there are more than 8 bits in the value field, 
    then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved.


  Section 8.2, first paragraph. Replace:

    OLD 
       [IS-IS-CAP] defines a new code point registry for sub-TLVs 
       carried in the ISIS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP].

    NEW
       IANA has defined a registry for sub-TLVs of the IS-IS CAPABILITY 
       TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP].  


  Please correct the text at the end of the existing section 8.3 as 
  follows:

    OLD

    Bit No.    Name                                   Reference
    --------+---------------------------------------+-----------
       1       B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability      [This.I-D]
       2       E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability         [This.I-D]
       3       M bit: MPLS-TE support                 [This.I-D]
       4       G bit: GMPLS support                   [This.I-D]
       5       P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support            [This.I-D]

    NEW

    Bit No. Name Reference
    --------+---------------------------------------+---------------
    0 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    1 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability    | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    2 M bit: MPLS-TE support            | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    3 G bit: GMPLS support              | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    4 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support       | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    >4: Available for assignment        | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 

IANA Note

   See RFC editor's note above.





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 14:55:08 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Draft response to MFA liaison
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:42:46 +0100
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Hi,

The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt 
with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS 
Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.

We were requested to respond by 18th October.

Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so 
it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.

I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following 
as a starting-point for a response liaison.

Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time 
for me to send the liaison on October 15th.

Thanks,
Adrian

===
Dear David and Rao,

Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As 
you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also 
participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is 
understandably low.

We do have the following observations for your consideration.

1. References.

In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our 
specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this 
document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this 
stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final 
ballot.
The following list of references falls into this category:
- draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
- draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
- draft-ietf-bfd-base
- draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
- draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
- draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
- draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
- draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
- draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
- draft-ietf-bfd-mib

2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI

In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular 
to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI 
specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of 
support.

Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, 
although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in 
section 5 does not reference RFC3473.

Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also 
need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.

3. Broken Reference

In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the 
reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or 
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.

Best regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 15:17:09 2007
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:08:19 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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To: Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>
CC: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
        ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp,
        "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>,
        "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com> <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com> <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp>
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Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems
like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the
latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a
narrow spacing.

At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of
the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T)
at 193.1THz.

So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now
given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new
modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question.
Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link
either ;-)

I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those
definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that.

When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want
to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I
think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band
based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for
example in routing) I could use something like:

(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) +
(Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication
available/in use).

Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength
colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) +
(channel range as a 16 bit integer).

Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems
reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many
other contexts!

Regards

Greg



Tomohiro Otani wrote:
> Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,
>
> Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
> We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.
>
> I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
> how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
> (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)
>
> With best regards,
>
> Tomo
>
>
> Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
>> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
>> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
>> a hop-by-hop basis.
>>
>> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
>> wavelength level to choose the path.
>>
>> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
>> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
>> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
>> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
>> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
>> technologies. 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
>> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
>>> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
>>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
>>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
>>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
>>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
>>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
>>>
>>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
>>> used. In 
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
>>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
>>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
>>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
>>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
>>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Greg B.
>>>
>>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>>>>
>>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
>>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> ---snip---
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 5.2
>>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
>>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
>>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
>>>> another bit to the CS field.
>>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
>>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
>>>> not so improbable.
>>>> So, how about...
>>>>       0                   1                   2                   3
>>>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> --snip--
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> The two things you do need in this section are:
>>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>>>>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>>>>   Label can be used.
>>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>>>>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>>>>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>>>>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>>>>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>>>>   Generalized Label Object?
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 6.2
>>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>>>> availability is best removed from this I-D.
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 7
>>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
>>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
>>>> model, but you should mention the fact.
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 10
>>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> -- 
>>> ===================================================
>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>
>   

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



--------------020804070405000000020707
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 http-equiv="Content-Type">
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Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems
like a lot, but wouldn't&nbsp; we'd like to describe the full range of the
latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at
a narrow spacing. <br>
<br>
At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of
the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per
ITU-T) at 193.1THz. <br>
<br>
So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now
given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new
modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question.&nbsp;
Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link
either <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br>
<br>
I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those
definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to
that. <br>
<br>
When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want
to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I
think that can be orthogonal.&nbsp; For example if I have a 32 channel
C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage
(for example in routing) I could use something like:<br>
<br>
(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) +
(Channel Count m)&nbsp; + (Bit map that is m bits long&nbsp; with 0/1 indication
available/in use).<br>
<br>
Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength
colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:<br>
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) +
(channel range as a 16 bit integer).<br>
<br>
Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems
reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many
other contexts!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tomohiro Otani wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,

Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.

I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
(I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)

With best regards,

Tomo


Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Hi,

If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
a hop-by-hop basis.

But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
wavelength level to choose the path.

I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
"n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
technologies. 

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Bernstein" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com">&lt;gregb@grotto-networking.com&gt;</a>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">&lt;adrian@olddog.co.uk&gt;</a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">&lt;ccamp@ops.ietf.org&gt;</a>; "Tomohiro Otani" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:otani@kddilabs.jp">&lt;otani@kddilabs.jp&gt;</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ho-guo@kddilabs.jp">&lt;ho-guo@kddilabs.jp&gt;</a>; "K. Miyazaki" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com">&lt;miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com&gt;</a>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com">&lt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;</a>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt


  
    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
problem.

For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.

Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
used. In 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt</a> 
we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Hi,

I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.

Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">---snip---
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">===
Section 5.2
It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
another bit to the CS field.
Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
not so improbable.
So, how about...
      0                   1                   2                   3
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===

      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">--snip--
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">The two things you do need in this section are:
1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
  Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
  Label can be used.
2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
  and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
  Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
  or do you propose to define a new field value in the
  Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
  Generalized Label Object?
===
Section 6.2
As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
availability is best removed from this I-D.
===
Section 7
You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
model, but you should mention the fact.
===
Section 10
I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
===

Cheers,
Adrian



      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



    
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">

  
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->


  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</pre>
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Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:29:15 -0500
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Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
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From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	"Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hi Adrian,

My comments below...

Thanks,
Snigdho

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:12 AM
To: Bardalai, Snigdho; Ccamp (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new
Extensions


Hi Snigdho,

Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.

Some thoughts...

We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think =
it=20
actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly =
the=20
same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the=20
SRefresh would not fix the problem.

[SCB] We had thought about such an option but as you mention the =
solution would=20
      have to consider the full refresh scenario as well.

In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very =

small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between =
N2=20
completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say =
that=20
N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and =
running.=20
That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
- either
    - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
  or
     - respond to any first received message from a
       neighbor with which it does not have an active
       Hello exchange by sending a Hello
- ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
  from neighbors with which it does not have an active
  Hello exchange

[SCB] This is a good and robust solution. Addressing this type of =
implementation detail
      would be a good candidate for the GR-description draft.

We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could =
either=20
mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources=20
required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are =
already=20
in use.

In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new =
resource=20
allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).

In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] =
contain=20
"Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the=20
PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of=20
failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with=20
"Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable =

Label Set object.

So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. =

Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has =
Resv=20
state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes =
(all=20
of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect =
something=20
slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking =
the=20
dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything =
else=20
is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a =
Hello=20
if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.

In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set =
far to=20
large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because =
N1 is=20
not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. =
The=20
former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to =
be=20
treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

[SCB] I believe what we are getting into is the clarification of the =
detailed
      behaviors to cover the various scenarios. I agree that the =
GR-description
      ID would be the ideal place to clarify these.

With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of=20
multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh=20
failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was =
removed=20
from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) =
as=20
second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have=20
draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.

I suggest:

1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without=20
SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.

2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers =
your=20
questions about multiple failures.

In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and=20
pointer to what they could change.

[SCB] Sure, I will provide some text.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new=20
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration =
times=20
the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the =
neighboring=20
node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 =
seconds,=20
the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds =
then=20
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on =
a=20
new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an =
issue=20
with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because =
the=20
resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues =
sending=20
SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because =
there=20
is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes =
a=20
Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL =
because=20
N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have =
not=20
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and =
a=20
real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 =
doing=20
anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there=20
something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful=20
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when=20
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes=20
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream =
ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D =
and=20
E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in =

node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 18:07:46 2007
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Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:58:16 -0500
From: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
In-reply-to: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
To: 'Adrian Farrel' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: 'Tomohiro Otani' <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp,
 "'K. Miyazaki'" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>,
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Hi, 

I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting
an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength
switched optical network (WSON).  

A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid
(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals
with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as
a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be
agreed upon across the network entities. 

The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It
should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. 

Regards, 

Young 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)
Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt

Hi,

I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.

Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always

possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.

Here are some nits and issues in the current draft.

===
Abstract
You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract
===
Abstract
d/ and getting significant/
===
Abstract
"new generation"
Do you mean "next generation" or "new"?
===
Abstract
s/proposes/defines/
===
Section 3
s/vendors?  network is/vendors'  networks are/
===
Section 3
  "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned
   between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering
   wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be
   accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints."
I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph!
===
Figure 2
The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is 
confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown 
in figure 1.
===
Section 4
I think you need to be careful here.
These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language.
Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is 
interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in 
draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable

concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you 
restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let 
future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling.
===
Section 5.2
It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the

CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of 
decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to 
the CS field.
Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems 
to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so 
improbable.
So, how about...
       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===
Section 5.3
To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would 
suggest the following for CWDM.
       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |Grid |     Reserved        |              Lambda               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===
Section 6.1
I think some of the progression here is faulty.
We have:
  "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that
   is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end
   scope.

   The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has
   significance only between two neighbors."
It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but 
that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. 
Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop.

I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D,

and could be dropped without any problem.
The two things you do need in this section are:
1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
   Label can be used.
2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
   Generalized Label Object?
===
Section 6.2
As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
availability is best removed from this I-D.
===
Section 7
You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and

external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you 
should mention the fact.
===
Section 10
I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
===

Cheers,
Adrian 









From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 08 19:15:30 2007
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Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
(a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
(b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
pack them in.

Currently the draft has:

    0                   1                   2                   3  
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
  ---snip---
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |  
   |                  (variable)                                   |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  

In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH.
So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?

Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would 
require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single 
stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237






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From DuncanweeksYang@rollingstone.com Tue Oct 09 02:25:22 2007
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From dblflowing@via.com Tue Oct 09 04:02:35 2007
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generations. A native artwork is printed with colors never used
an advantage to the architect etc. if the designer is still the beings adap=
t to their environments and accomplish goals by

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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 03:45:56 -0400
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison
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Adrian,

Thanks for your comments so far.  Regarding the references to drafts,
those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be
reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon.  If they get held up,
we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft
(and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and
whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the
work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later
revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting.

This issue is a particular sore spot.  I'm very mystified in
particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs.  Everyone is
implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in
is affecting work both in the IETF and outside.

Cheers,
Andy

On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt
> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS
> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.
>
> We were requested to respond by 18th October.
>
> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so
> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.
>
> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following
> as a starting-point for a response liaison.
>
> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time
> for me to send the liaison on October 15th.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
> Dear David and Rao,
>
> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As
> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also
> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is
> understandably low.
>
> We do have the following observations for your consideration.
>
> 1. References.
>
> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our
> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this
> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this
> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final
> ballot.
> The following list of references falls into this category:
> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
> - draft-ietf-bfd-base
> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib
>
> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI
>
> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular
> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI
> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of
> support.
>
> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification,
> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in
> section 5 does not reference RFC3473.
>
> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also
> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.
>
> 3. Broken Reference
>
> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the
> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.
>
> Best regards,
> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>
>
>
>




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tree realistically on canvas who were dismayed at the idea that
strong understanding of technology. In fact, artists will be world I can he=
ar music surging in the background...I d like to

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<P><DIV>field of view is fundamentally limited, and these displays</DIV></P=
>
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:37:25 +0100
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Hi,

FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on 
the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to 
tidy up the language a bit.

Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns 
before.

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM
Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
>
> Title           : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label 
> Switching (GMPLS) Networks
> Author(s)       : T. Otani, et al.
> Filename        : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
> Pages           : 11
> Date            : 2007-10-08
>
> This document describes requirements for operations and management
> (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
> networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>
> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
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>
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
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>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 08:02:34 2007
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Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:49:14 +0900
From: Eiji Oki <oki.eiji@lab.ntt.co.jp>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
In-Reply-To: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Support.

Eiji

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to 
> look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 





From bal@writehigh.com Tue Oct 09 08:56:37 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 09 22:48:02 2007
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:07 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Alan Davey <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, Vishwas Manral <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>,
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Hi Alan,

Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)

Thanks for your useful comments!

On 2007-09-27, at 17:48:59 Alan Davey wrote:

>Guys
>
>Apologies for the late response.  
>
>I basically agree with Acee.
>
>*	It makes sense to define a new OSPFv3-TE LSA type to carry the
>AS connectivity information.  I think that this would probably provide a
>better and more back compatible way to identify the new advertisements
>than defining a new link type value.

Agree, a new LSA type is a better option for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE.

>
>*	It also makes sense to use the same approach in OSPFv2 and
>OSPFv3 and so a new OSPFv2 opaque type may be the way to go. 
>

We are considering whether define a new OSPFv2 opaque type.

>My other comments on the draft, from an OSPFv3 TE perspective, are as
>follows.
>
>*	On the subject of identifying the other end of the inter-AS
>link.
>
>	-  The Link ID sub-TLV is not suitable as it SHOULD be ignored
>on receipt by an OSPFv3 TE implementation.  
>
>	-  The Neighbor ID sub-TLV MUST be used instead.  This sub-TLV
>contains the neighbor's interface ID and the neighbor's 32-bit Router ID
>(note that this is NOT the TE Router ID).
>
>	-  Use of the Neighbor ID sub-TLV requires configuration at the
>ASBR of the remote ASBR's interface ID and the 32-bit Router ID.
>

Yes, for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE, this will be performed as the current OSPFv3 TE does.

>	-  You may want to advertise a global-scope IPv6 address for the
>router at the other end of an inter-AS link in a Remote Interface IPv6
>Address Sub-TLV.  This would also need to be configured.
>

>*	As Acee pointed out, there is currently no OSPFv3 TE equivalent
>to the Type 11 Opaque LSA, that is, there is no defined LSA for flooding
>AS scope TE information.

So, allocating a new separate LSA could make it easyly for the inter-AS TE information having area or AS flooding scope.
 
>
>*	The wording needs to be changed for OSPFv3 TE when describing
>the contents of a "proxy" advertisement for the backward direction of an
>inter-AD TE link.
>

OK.

>Regards
>
>
>Alan Davey
>


Best regards,			
Mach Chen









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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:14 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>,
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Hi Peng,

Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)

  
On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:

>Hello Mach,
>
>Just be curious about the following:
>>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
>"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
>
>What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
>mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
>inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.

Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the remote ASBR.  

>
>Regards,
>Peng
>


Best regards,			
Mach Chen






From Jael218@cosmostar.ch Tue Oct 09 23:16:18 2007
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From: "Jael Manoochehri" <Jael218@cosmostar.ch>
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:50:55 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, 
	"Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, 
	"CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hello Mach,

> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
>

Understood :-)
>
>
> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
>
> >Hello Mach,
> >
> >Just be curious about the following:
> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
> >
> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
>
> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.

One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
link(s) is available.

Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
TE link(s)? Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?


Regards,
Peng




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 03:42:01 2007
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:15:55 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of
 draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>, Vishwas Manral <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>,
 Alan Davey <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hi Peng,
  
On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote:

>Hello Mach,
>
>> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
>>
>
>Understood :-)
>>
>>
>> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
>>
>> >Hello Mach,
>> >
>> >Just be curious about the following:
>> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
>> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
>> >
>> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
>> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
>> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
>>
>> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.
>
>One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
>inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
>purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
>computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
>link(s) is available.

Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. 

>
>Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
>computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
>TE link(s)? 

As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. 

>Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
>weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?
>
Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it.


>
>Regards,
>Peng


Best regards,			
Mach Chen






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 04:25:05 2007
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To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question
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Dear Greg,

both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
from a given switching capability to a different one.
"Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
capability.

hope it clarifies.

best regards,

Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
> pack them in.
> 
> Currently the draft has:
> 
>    0                   1                   2                   3     0 1 
> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    | 
> Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>  ---snip---
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
> |                  (variable)                                   |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
> In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH.
> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
> 
> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would 
> require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single 
> stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
>> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
>> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
>> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
>> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
>> elements might change.
>>
>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>> draft.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
> 




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 10:09:54 2007
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To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Subject: New working group draft - MLN Solutions
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Hi,

Definitely good support for this. Thanks.

Authors, please submit as draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-00.txt

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: Proposed new working group draft


> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need 
> to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
> 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 10:32:54 2007
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:16:08 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, 
	"Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, 
	"CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hello Mach,

Thanks a lot for your reply, all clear now.

Regards,
Peng

On 10/10/07, Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com> wrote:
> Hi Peng,
>
> On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote:
>
> >Hello Mach,
> >
> >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
> >>
> >
> >Understood :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hello Mach,
> >> >
> >> >Just be curious about the following:
> >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
> >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
> >> >
> >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
> >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
> >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
> >>
> >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.
> >
> >One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
> >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
> >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
> >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
> >link(s) is available.
>
> Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available.
>
> >
> >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
> >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
> >TE link(s)?
>
> As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check.
>
> >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
> >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?
> >
> Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it.
>
>
> >
> >Regards,
> >Peng
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mach Chen
>
>
>




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 11:26:27 2007
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To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
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   ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:44:12 EDT."
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From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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JP,

> >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
> >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >>>
> >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>
> >>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)  
> >>> - CE
> >>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be  
> >>> used
> >>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >> application ... sounds
> >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
> >> TE LSP
> >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
> >> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >
> > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> 
> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for  
> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes  
> already defined for the IGPs ?

If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

Yakov.




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 10 11:43:18 2007
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From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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To: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
CC: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re:  MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers?
References: <05be01c80294$b6a151a0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe> <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com> <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr>
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Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in 
addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs 
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as 
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a 
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to 
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported 
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have 
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be 
wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in 
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>>    0                   1                   2                   3     
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>>  ---snip---
>>   
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
>> |                  (variable)                                   |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In 
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be 
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) 
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a 
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more 
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this 
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements 
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that 
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if 
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237






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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Igor Bryskin <i_bryskin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers?
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>,
  Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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Hi,

I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:
a) server and client layers belong to different regions;
b) server and client layer belong to the same region

Igor

Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> wrote: Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in 
addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs 
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as 
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a 
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to 
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported 
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have 
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be 
wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in 
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>>    0                   1                   2                   3     
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>>  ---snip---
>>   
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
>> |                  (variable)                                   |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In 
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be 
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) 
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a 
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more 
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this 
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements 
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that 
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if 
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





       
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Hi,<br><br>I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:<br>a) server and client layers belong to different regions;<br>b) server and client layer belong to the same region<br><br>Igor<br><br><b><i>Greg Bernstein &lt;gregb@grotto-networking.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in <br>addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs <br>other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as <br>IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a <br>systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to <br>describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported <br>adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.<br>Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd
 really want to know which ports have <br>access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be <br>wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in <br>the data plane.<br><br>Regards<br><br>Greg B.<br><br>Martin Vigoureux wrote:<br>&gt; Dear Greg,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations<br>&gt; performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)<br>&gt; while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended<br>&gt; to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing<br>&gt; from a given switching capability to a different one.<br>&gt; "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)<br>&gt; capability.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; hope it clarifies.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; best regards,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Greg Bernstein a écrit :<br>&gt;&gt; Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific <br>&gt;&gt; examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.<br>&gt;&gt; (a)
 SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported<br>&gt;&gt; (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the <br>&gt;&gt; ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly <br>&gt;&gt; pack them in.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Currently the draft has:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;    0                   1                   2                   3     <br>&gt;&gt; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  <br>&gt;&gt;  ---snip---<br>&gt;&gt;   <br>&gt;&gt;
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  (variable)                                   |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In <br>&gt;&gt; both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be <br>&gt;&gt; the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be <br>&gt;&gt; SDH.<br>&gt;&gt; So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) <br>&gt;&gt; would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a <br>&gt;&gt; single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info
 field?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Regards<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Greg B.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Adrian Farrel wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; some elements might change.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG
 <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; draft.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Adrian<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br><br>-- <br>===================================================<br>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237<br><br><br><br></blockquote><br><p>&#32;
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http://www.asverb.com/
Welcome ccamp-archive

what the hell! she didnt have an orgasm again! take action today and do =
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test machura
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://www.asverb.com/">http://www.asverb.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Welcome ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>what the hell! she didnt have an orgasm again! =
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From JerryhalpernJudd@brandonhomefurnishings.com Wed Oct 10 20:14:04 2007
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From nebreuning@yahoo.com.mx Thu Oct 11 02:11:26 2007
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Subject: 10 seconds to check out these games
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From anthony.reid@datadijital.com.tr Thu Oct 11 02:11:48 2007
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From dpv68kla@lantic.net Thu Oct 11 03:03:30 2007
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Subject: Rep1icaRolex, Omega, Cartier, IWC, Swiss QualityWatches udoir
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From fairfieldeqctr.com@reefcorals.com Thu Oct 11 04:18:59 2007
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From: "Trevor Brown" <fairfieldeqctr.com@reefcorals.com>
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See attach.
http://www.doutmes.net/

-----
We really should be offended. 
Theres only one quick way to f
How? Alec smiled. Grace? Yes, 
Come and sit with your father.
 
  

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<STYLE> textarea { display:none; } </STYLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.doutmes.net/">
<IMG src=3D"cid:img013.jpg@61712753.11153927" border=3D0></A></DIV><br><br>
<textarea>Yet shes tending him, Laird. I
</textarea><textarea>The difficult parts over, Joha
</textarea><textarea>Besides what? She whispered he
</textarea><textarea>What did you just say? he aske
</textarea><textarea>I said, youre here now, she wh
</textarea><textarea>You know it too, Johanna. She 
</textarea><textarea>It didnt take her any time at 
</textarea><textarea>He wont leave this alone for l
</textarea><textarea>She nodded. She was suddenly o
</textarea><textarea>She collected her supplies and
</textarea><textarea>She carried your dog inside, M
</textarea><textarea>As Keith told a somewhat exagg
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</textarea> 
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From abraham.worley_ip@ge.com Thu Oct 11 05:39:20 2007
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From Hendrickson@andrewyorkguitar.com Thu Oct 11 07:22:18 2007
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hello beautiful ccamp-archive

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Ida Hendrickson
http://www.bobmafia.com/




From tpolitical@lakewood.org Thu Oct 11 09:03:53 2007
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From: Deanna N. Dodd <tpolitical@lakewood.org>
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Subject: With maker
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From chevyMaddox@aex.com Thu Oct 11 11:02:25 2007
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From: "chevy Maddox" <chevyMaddox@aex.com>
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Subject: paksaab
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hello again ccamp-archive

i woke up one morning and my dick looked a bit bigger

chevy Maddox
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hello again ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>i woke up one morning and my dick looked a bit =
bigger</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>chevy Maddox</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From emilchangsh@netscape.net Thu Oct 11 12:08:08 2007
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:51:06 +0000
From: "Emil Chang" <emilchangsh@netscape.net>
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Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Do you want Rolex?    fckdd
To: bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org, call-home@ietf.org, calsch-archive@ietf.org, capwap-archive@ietf.org, ccamp-archive@ietf.org
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Dear bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org

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From RheacockyPickens@cartoonstock.com Thu Oct 11 13:49:26 2007
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From: "Adrian Naquin" <RheacockyPickens@cartoonstock.com>
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Subject: Receive funds in as little as 5 days
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From Moyinixafwg@seansellsflorida.com Thu Oct 11 13:49:47 2007
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:49:38 +0300
To: ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org
From: "Harpreet Moyini" <Moyinixafwg@seansellsflorida.com>
Subject: abenland
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Haven't seen you for ages ccamp-archive

i got no probs taking the girls home now

Harpreet Moyini
http://www.bmwxi.com/




From hughins.com@patul.com Thu Oct 11 14:09:47 2007
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From: "Cayden Hall" <hughins.com@patul.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Why be an average guy any longer
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:09:36 +0300
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See attach.
http://www.stradym.com/

-----
 Chapter Seven  At precisely t
You will tell me how you are g
Charity, seated next to Caroli
That wasnt the answer he was l
 
  

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Hi</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<STYLE> textarea { display:none; } </STYLE></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.stradym.com/">
<IMG src=3D"cid:img086.jpg@69339649.50178994" border=3D0></A></DIV><br><br>
<textarea>Gelfrid shouted his agreement.
</textarea><textarea>All hell broke loose then. Jud
</textarea><textarea>The argument seemed to be cent
</textarea><textarea>One of the elders worked himse
</textarea><textarea>He waved his hand to let her k
</textarea><textarea>You really shouldnt allow your
</textarea><textarea>You really shouldnt dislike me
</textarea><textarea>Because she was so intent on g
</textarea><textarea>Judith, quit beating Gelfrid. 
</textarea><textarea>Do quit giving me orders, she 
</textarea><textarea>Will you leave me alone if I d
</textarea><textarea>You dont need to take that ton
</textarea><textarea>She turned and walked back to 
</textarea><textarea>The lass deserves to know what
</textarea><textarea>She will, Iain called back. Yo
</textarea> 
</BODY></HTML>

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From gipsonrs@cummins.com Thu Oct 11 15:45:20 2007
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:24:00 -0700
Subject: Rep1icaRolex, Omega, Cartier, IWC, Swiss QualityWatches e2mng1lzyaqa27v
From: "Henry Gipson" <gipsonrs@cummins.com>
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<html><head>
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From JackievagrantSchultz@memagazine.org Thu Oct 11 16:46:16 2007
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From: "Nick Page" <JackievagrantSchultz@memagazine.org>
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Subject: Re: Simple Application
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

On Oct 10, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>
>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)
>>>>> - CE
>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be
>>>>> used
>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>> application ... sounds
>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
>>>> TE LSP
>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>
>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>
>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for
>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>
> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>

On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
consensus
(on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply  
reuse
the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are  
effectively
merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since a single draft  
would
then serve both applications and may be future ones. Makes sense ?

Cheers.

JP.

> Yakov.





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From lilabenEasley@buenacasa.gr Fri Oct 12 11:08:11 2007
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hello world ccamp-archive

be confident knowing you wont be a 1 minute man anymore!

lilaben Easley
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 12 13:20:16 2007
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From: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <07b801c80a58$b0adf750$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
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Yes, I find this version clearer.

I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any
discussion to when it is a WG I-D.  One is the change of the first sentence from
'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS'
to
'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS'
which sounds quite a change.   In practice, this does not reflect a dramatic
change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it quite
right.

Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume it is
too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt


> Hi,
>
> FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on
> the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to
> tidy up the language a bit.
>
> Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns
> before.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM
> Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>
>
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >directories.
> >
> > Title           : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
> > Switching (GMPLS) Networks
> > Author(s)       : T. Otani, et al.
> > Filename        : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
> > Pages           : 11
> > Date            : 2007-10-08
> >
> > This document describes requirements for operations and management
> > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
> > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02
.txt
> >
> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of
> > the message.
> > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> > to change your subscription settings.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 12 14:29:51 2007
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Subject: Fw: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) 
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FYI
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "IESG Secretary" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: <iesg@ietf.org>; <iab@iab.org>; "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; 
"Deborah Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:15 PM
Subject: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement 
Plane WG (ccamp)


>A new charter for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp)
> working group in the Routing Area of the IETF is being considered.
> The draft charter is provided below for your review and comment.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> +++
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Last Modified: 2007-10-05
>
> Current Status: Active Working Group
>
> Chair(s):
> Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
>
>
> Routing Area Director(s):
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> David Ward <dward@cisco.com>
>
> Routing Area Advisor:
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
>
> Technical Advisor(s):
> Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
>
> Mailing Lists:
> General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org
> In Body: subscribe ccamp
> Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp
>
> Description of Working Group:
>
> OLD
> The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining
> a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
> physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom
> service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches,
> ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS
> WG.
>
> NEW
> The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining
> a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
> physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom
> service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches,
> TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP
> encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the
> MPLS WG.
>
> ===
>
> New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets.
> Suggest to place it after:
> "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the
> protocols and extensions specified within the WG."
> and before:
> "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:"
>
> - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol
> extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed
> Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already
> approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data
> plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the
> IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data
> planes is out of scope.
>
>
> ===
>
> Final paragraph
>
> OLD
> In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
> following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG
> will also cooperate with the ITU-T.
>
> NEW
> In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
> following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The
> WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1.
>
> ===
>
> Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list)
>
> OLD
> Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> NEW
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> ---
> OLD
> Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> NEW
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> ---
> OLD
> Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> NEW
> Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> ---
> OLD
> Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG
> review
> NEW
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and
> solutions I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> NEW
> Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> ---
> OLD
> Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG
> review
> NEW
> Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG
> review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> NEW
> Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group
> NEW
> Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group
> ---
> NEW
> Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and
> explicitly-routed Ethernet networks
> ---
> NEW
> Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled
> and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review
>
> ====
>
> Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list)
>
> Done Post strawman WG goals and charter
> Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions
> for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control
> solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts.
> Done Build appropriate design teams
> Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common
> control plane protocol
> Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol
> Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG
> Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG
> Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG
> Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG
> Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol
> Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and
> routing
> Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG
> Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG
> consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination
> of usefulness of continuation of WG
> Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in
> ISIS and OSPF
> Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh
> membership
> Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review
> Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in
> ISIS and OSPF
> Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies
> Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-
> Region Networks
> Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for
> MLN/MRN
> Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions
> Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for
> IESG review
> Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG
> review
> Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module
> Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for
> IESG review
> Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-
> domain issues for disjoint and protected paths
> Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
> OSPF for IESG review
> Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review
> Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and
> solutions
> Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review
> Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership
> for IESG review
> Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D
> for IESG review
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG
> review
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for
> IESG review
> Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and
> explicitly-routed Ethernet networks
> Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review
> Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled
> and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review
> Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group
> 






From Conor492@fiee.co.uk Fri Oct 12 18:18:13 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 13 09:25:18 2007
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Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
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Hi Tom,


> Yes, I find this version clearer.

Good. Thanks.

> I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any
> discussion to when it is a WG I-D.  One is the change of the first 
> sentence from
> 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS'
> to
> 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS'
> which sounds quite a change.   In practice, this does not reflect a 
> dramatic
> change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it 
> quite
> right.

This tackled a comment from Don O'Connor.

I think the essence of Don's point was that the techniques being described 
were not data plane OAM. In fact, while we may leverage data plane OAM, for 
most (all?) technologies with which we are dealing, the data plane OAM is 
already defined (stroke being defined) by other bodies or other working 
groups.

We'd be happy to see another formulation of this text.

> Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume 
> it is
> too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF.

Ah. Hmm.

As you say, NetConf is nascent. It would be a trifle premature to *require* 
NetConf conformance. In fact, the requirements would perhaps be a little 
more abstract (e.g., "standardised tools for operational management") if 
there wasn't also the general IETF "SHOULD" applied to the development of 
MIB modules for all protocols and protocol extensions.

Cheers,
Adrian







From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Sat Oct 13 09:26:06 2007
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Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:16:59 +0100
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Hi,

When we asked about adopting 
draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
draft, we decided we should play it very safe.

The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
our own concerns.

So, second time of asking...

Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Thanks,
Adrian








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From: Wataru Imajuku <imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
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Hi, Tomo and Adrian

 As I commented before in this mailing list, this draft is useful.
 In my understanding, one of merit of Lambda label other than that Young pointed out 
is the elimination of some manual configuration of TE-Link attributes which were required in current specification for WDM links, specifically when handling "colorless" fibers between the add/drop port of ROADM/OXCs and single tunable laser in its client node.
 In this case, Lambda label well simplifies TE-Link configuration for the fibers which can possibly transmit optical signal in many wavelengths while only one signal channel is actually transmitted.

 Regarding to the question "a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object?" which Adrian pointed out, current my understanding is as follows,

A) If we do not enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, and 
 1)  If we employ current C-type, nodes at termination of the TE-links should pre-negotiate each other whether the TE-Link is "Lambda" Label or not.
 2)  If we define new C-type, nodes can understand whether remote node identify the TE-link as is 
  "Lambda Label" link without pre-negotiation. We can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above.
  But, requires new C-types (i.e. new extension)

B) If we do enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, 
 we can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above without new C-type.
 Also, this helps to eliminate new burden for service providers taking care whether 
"Lambda Label" link or not for each TE-link. 
 But, this choice brings large impact on NEs which already developed.

 I can not speak which one is better selection at this moment, but how far pursuit 
the merit of "Lambda Label" to simplify the configuration seem one of important view point to determine solution.

Best Regards
Wataru


At 06:58 07/10/09, Young Lee wrote:
>Hi, 
>
>I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting
>an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength
>switched optical network (WSON).  
>
>A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid
>(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals
>with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as
>a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be
>agreed upon across the network entities. 
>
>The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It
>should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. 
>
>Regards, 
>
>Young 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
>Of Adrian Farrel
>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM
>To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)
>Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>
>Hi,
>
>I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>
>Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always
>
>possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>
>Here are some nits and issues in the current draft.
>
>===
>Abstract
>You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract
>===
>Abstract
>d/ and getting significant/
>===
>Abstract
>"new generation"
>Do you mean "next generation" or "new"?
>===
>Abstract
>s/proposes/defines/
>===
>Section 3
>s/vendors?  network is/vendors'  networks are/
>===
>Section 3
>  "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned
>   between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering
>   wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be
>   accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints."
>I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph!
>===
>Figure 2
>The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is 
>confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown 
>in figure 1.
>===
>Section 4
>I think you need to be careful here.
>These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language.
>Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is 
>interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in 
>draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable
>
>concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you 
>restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let 
>future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling.
>===
>Section 5.2
>It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the
>
>CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of 
>decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to 
>the CS field.
>Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems 
>to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so 
>improbable.
>So, how about...
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>===
>Section 5.3
>To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would 
>suggest the following for CWDM.
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |     Reserved        |              Lambda               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>===
>Section 6.1
>I think some of the progression here is faulty.
>We have:
>  "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that
>   is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end
>   scope.
>
>   The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has
>   significance only between two neighbors."
>It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but 
>that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. 
>Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop.
>
>I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D,
>
>and could be dropped without any problem.
>The two things you do need in this section are:
>1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>   Label can be used.
>2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>   Generalized Label Object?
>===
>Section 6.2
>As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>availability is best removed from this I-D.
>===
>Section 7
>You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and
>
>external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you 
>should mention the fact.
>===
>Section 10
>I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>===
>
>Cheers,
>Adrian 

-------------------------------------
Wataru Imajuku, Ph.D.@NTT Network Innovation Labs
TEL: +81-46-859-4315
FAX: +81-46-859-5541





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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 10:03:02 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
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References: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe> <8c99930d0710090045ua30cc4hc7beaf426e1626f3@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:34:31 +0100
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Thanks Andy,

I'll modify the wording of the liaison accordingly.

Wrt all the I-Ds, but especially the BFD work, I know you know that the IETF 
is contribution driven. If we all sit back and wait for the I-Ds to become 
RFCs, nothing will happen. So hopefully anyone waiting for something to 
complete will pitch in and help resolve any open issues.

But also, if the MFA is waiting for some specific work and is unsure of the 
status, a liaison will surely clarify the situation. And a liaison that 
makes a specific request for speed in a particular area may also get some 
attention.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison


> Adrian,
>
> Thanks for your comments so far.  Regarding the references to drafts,
> those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be
> reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon.  If they get held up,
> we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft
> (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and
> whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the
> work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later
> revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting.
>
> This issue is a particular sore spot.  I'm very mystified in
> particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs.  Everyone is
> implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in
> is affecting work both in the IETF and outside.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
> On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The MFA sent us 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt
>> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS
>> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.
>>
>> We were requested to respond by 18th October.
>>
>> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, 
>> so
>> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.
>>
>> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the 
>> following
>> as a starting-point for a response liaison.
>>
>> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in 
>> time
>> for me to send the liaison on October 15th.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> ===
>> Dear David and Rao,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As
>> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also
>> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is
>> understandably low.
>>
>> We do have the following observations for your consideration.
>>
>> 1. References.
>>
>> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our
>> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
>> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in 
>> this
>> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this
>> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final
>> ballot.
>> The following list of references falls into this category:
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-base
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
>> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
>> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib
>>
>> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI
>>
>> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in 
>> particular
>> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI
>> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of
>> support.
>>
>> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification,
>> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in
>> section 5 does not reference RFC3473.
>>
>> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also
>> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.
>>
>> 3. Broken Reference
>>
>> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not 
>> the
>> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or
>> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
>> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 






From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 10:37:54 2007
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To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
   ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200."
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JP,

> >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
> >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
> >>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
> >>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >>>> application ... sounds
> >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
> >>>> TE LSP
> >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
> >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >>>
> >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> >>
> >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for
> >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
> >> already defined for the IGPs ?
> >
> > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
> >
> 
> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus
> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse
> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are  
> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since 
> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future 
> ones. Makes sense ?

No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
*use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
first draft.

draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. That is
precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.

Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute,
carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
from your draft:

   This document also defines a new attribute called the
   TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784].
   The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
   revision of this document.

Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
are defined in rfc4203.

Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
in rfc4203). 

Yakov.




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 12:10:40 2007
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From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>,
	RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>,
	ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
	ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Protocol Action: 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label 
         Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic 
         Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions' to Proposed Standard 
Message-Id: <E1IhSN3-00083A-WF@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
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The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS 
   (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions '
   <draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane 
Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt

Technical Summary
 
  This document describes procedures and protocol extensions for the
  use of Resource ReserVation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE)
  signaling in Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering
  (MPLS-TE) packet networks and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) packet and
  non-packet networks to support the establishment and maintenance of
  Label Switched Paths that cross domain boundaries.
 
Working Group Summary
 
  no dissent reported. 
 
Protocol Quality
 
  Ross Callon has reviewed the spec for the IESG. 

Note to RFC Editor
 
  This document contains a normative reference to 
  draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching, which should be progressed with this 
  one. (they were both put on the IESG agenda at the same time). 

  Arthi Ayyangar's affiliation should be updated to be:

    Arthi Ayyangar
    Juniper Networks
    1194 N Mathilda Avenue 
    Sunnyvale, CA  94089  
    email: arthi@juniper.net





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 13:30:45 2007
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Reply-To: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
From: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0200
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Yes, adopt.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
> 
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
> get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
> draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> 
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
> to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
> our own concerns.
> 
> So, second time of asking...
> 
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 13:56:05 2007
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Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:34 -0400
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Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
>=20
>=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > When we asked about adopting=20
> > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG=20
> document we didn't=20
> > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are=20
> authors on the=20
> > draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> >=20
> > The new revision,=20
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts=20
> > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the=20
> list, and some of=20
> > our own concerns.
> >=20
> > So, second time of asking...
> >=20
> > Do you think=20
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20
> > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> >=20

In Favor,=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar=20

> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20




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From tavuiyampm@apotheke-am-rondeel.de Mon Oct 15 17:03:57 2007
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From Riopelluhub@apotheke-am-rondeel.de Mon Oct 15 17:04:22 2007
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In favor.

Regards,

Danny

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are 
> authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the 
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should 
> be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>
>




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 15 21:15:24 2007
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:12 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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Yes, it should be adopted as a CCAMP WG draft.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
> 
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
> get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
> draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> 
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
> to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
> our own concerns.
> 
> So, second time of asking...
> 
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 03:53:49 2007
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Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:43:27 +0200
Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604F0EB49@ftrdmel2>
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References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" <julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	<ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hi Adrian.

Yes, I do think it should be adopted.

Julien


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel

Hi,

When we asked about adopting=20
draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we =
didn't=20
get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the=20
draft, we decided we should play it very safe.

The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, =
attempts=20
to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some =
of=20
our own concerns.

So, second time of asking...

Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20
adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Thanks,
Adrian









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In favour.

Regards,
Reshad.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are 
> authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the 
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should 
> be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>




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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:52:36 +0200
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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in favor.

JP.

On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- 
> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough  
> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft,  
> we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt,  
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the  
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt  
> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>




From ymgrocery@wnonline.net Tue Oct 16 08:15:37 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 08:15:57 2007
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the  
>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or  
>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to  
>>>>>>> convey
>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider  
>>>>>>> Edge) - CE
>>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then  
>>>>>>> be used
>>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>>>> application ... sounds
>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE  
>>>>>> to CE
>>>>>> TE LSP
>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much  
>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>>>
>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute  
>>>> for
>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
>>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>>>
>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>>>
>>
>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
>> consensus
>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to  
>> simply reuse
>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
>> ones. Makes sense ?
>
> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
> first draft.

Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
applications.

>
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.

With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE  
TLVs.

We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external"
links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP
attribute that will not have the ability to support other  
applications. In particular,
for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link characteristics, as  
defined in
IGP TE.

The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and  
other
applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different  
approach for that
generic draft.

> That is
> precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.
>
> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- 
> attribute,
> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
> from your draft:
>
>    This document also defines a new attribute called the
>    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in  
> [RFC3784].
>    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
>    revision of this document.
>
> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
> are defined in rfc4203.
>

Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.

> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
> in rfc4203).
>

Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
(TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
specified for IGP TE.

Thanks.

JP.

> Yakov.




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 10:14:36 2007
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To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
   ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200."
             <176CB196-0DEF-4532-9F54-AEC46F32EBB1@cisco.com> 
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From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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JP,

> >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the  
> >>>>>>>>> requirements
> >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or  
> >>>>>>> one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to  
> >>>>>>> convey
> >>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider  
> >>>>>>> Edge) - CE
> >>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then  
> >>>>>>> be used
> >>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >>>>>> application ... sounds
> >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE  
> >>>>>> to CE
> >>>>>> TE LSP
> >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much  
> >>>>>> similar to
> >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute  
> >>>> for
> >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
> >>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
> >>>
> >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
> >>>
> >>
> >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
> >> consensus
> >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to  
> >> simply reuse
> >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
> >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
> >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
> >> ones. Makes sense ?
> >
> > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
> > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
> > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
> > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
> > first draft.
> 
> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
> applications.

As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10):

   If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
   what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
   draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
   to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
> > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
> > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.
> 
> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE  
> TLVs.
> 
> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external"
> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP
> attribute 

In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can
not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update
message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP
*requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we
defined a new BGP TE attribute).

Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE
TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute".

>         that will not have the ability to support other  
> applications. 
> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link
> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE.

See my first comment above.

> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and  
> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different  
> approach for that generic draft.

So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11
to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft.
  
> > That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.
> >
> > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
> > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- 
> > attribute,
> > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
> > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
> > from your draft:
> >
> >    This document also defines a new attribute called the
> >    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784].
> >    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
> >    revision of this document.
> >
> > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
> > are defined in rfc4203.
> 
> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.
> 
> > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
> > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
> > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
> > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
> > in rfc4203).
> 
> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
> specified for IGP TE.

See my comments above.

With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs
to carry more information than what is currently defined in
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus
of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added,
and then we'll add it to the document.

Yakov.




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 14:04:15 2007
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From: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:46:15 -0400
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On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt  
> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Yes!

Jau.




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 14:14:55 2007
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:52:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
From: Monique Morrow <mmorrow@cisco.com>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Also in favor

/monique


On 10/16/07 4:52 AM, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com> wrote:

> in favor.
> 
> JP.
> 
> On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-
>> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough
>> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft,
>> we decided we should play it very safe.
>> 
>> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt,
>> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the
>> list, and some of our own concerns.
>> 
>> So, second time of asking...
>> 
>> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>> 
>> 
>> 




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 16 21:19:14 2007
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Subject:  RFC 5063 on Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart
From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 5063

        Title:      Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation 
                    Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart 
        Author:     A. Satyanarayana, Ed.,
                    R. Rahman, Ed.
        Status:     Standards Track
        Date:       October 2007
        Mailbox:    asatyana@cisco.com, 
                    rrahman@cisco.com
        Pages:      24
        Characters: 58542
        Updates:    RFC2961, RFC3473
        See-Also:   

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt

This document describes extensions to the Resource Reservation
Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473.  The
extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the
Path message last sent by the node being restarted.

Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery
from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent
nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding
state across a restart.  Those mechanisms do not fully support
signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP
objects.

The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello
extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on
nodal faults defined in RFC 3473.  Using these extensions, the
restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state,
including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing)
interface identifiers.  The extensions can also be used to recover
signaling state after the restart of an ingress node.

These extensions are not used to create or restore data plane state.

The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined
in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the
Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state
locally for one or more Label Switched Paths (LSPs).  [STANDARDS TRACK]

This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane
Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
 Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and
 status of this protocol.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list.
Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list
should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG.  Requests to be
added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should
be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.

Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body 

help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example:

        To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG
        Subject: getting rfcs

        help: ways_to_get_rfcs

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Unless
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.

Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
Authors, for further information.


The RFC Editor Team
USC/Information Sciences Institute

...






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From Rihu@geejeevee.demon.nl Wed Oct 17 10:15:21 2007
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From serena731@actiontaken.com Wed Oct 17 15:03:55 2007
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From tara@surecom.com Wed Oct 17 17:15:25 2007
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From MaricelapulverableJacobsen@webstel.com Wed Oct 17 18:56:29 2007
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
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<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
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From SerenawatchwordVera@people.com Wed Oct 17 22:12:25 2007
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From: "Loraine Keene" <SerenawatchwordVera@people.com>
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Subject: Great Solution for seasonal merchants
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Thu Oct 18 05:49:07 2007
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:40:27 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
Organization: Acreo AB
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To: "Iesg (E-mail)" <iesg@ietf.org>
CC:  mpls@ietf.org, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, 
 George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>,
 Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 
 Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>,
 Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, IAB <iab@iab.org>
Subject: IAB decision on how to prepare for a potential cooperation between
 IETF and ITU-T on t-mpls
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To the IESG
cc mpls, pwe3 and ccamp working groups


The ownership of what needs to be done to prepare for a situation
where an agreement on cooperation between ITU-T and the IETF on
T-MPLS would be reached does not currently have a clear home in
the IETF, neither are concrete objectives or explicit requirements
well-defined.  The liaison activities that surround this agreement
and proper focus on this work within the IETF are critical, and as
such, the IAB needs to heavily support these activities.

At the IAB meeting October 3 the IAB agreed that the IETF need a
dedicated team that could evaluate "what would need to be
done if the agreement that might come out of the Q12/15
meeting in Stuttgart is progressed".

As a result the IAB decided on a design team approach, the design team
charter will be to come up with a list of tasks need to be done as
a result of the potential agreement and come up with a proposal on how
it should be managed. We believe that some degree of education of people
from the ITU-T side in the Tao of IETF should be planned.

And a reciprocal function would likely be worthwhile as well.

We see this tasked team as a forerunner to the joint team we are about
to set up together with the ITU-T.

Things I see that need to be clarified are:

- which decisions taken by IETF working groups needs to be revisited;
  e.g., only LDP v. RSVP-TE for PWE3?
- where are the incompatibilities between IETF specifications and
  the ITU-T documents
- what type of requirement organization do we need, should we try
  to channel it through existing working groups or start a new
- in what format could we accept requirements from ITU-T
- etc (please add to the list)

It is our take that this design team should include people that have
been actively involved in sorting out the T-MPLS issues up to
now, e.g.:

- someone from the Internet Area
- someone from the Routing Area
- someone from the pwe3 wg
- someone from the mpls wg
- our mpls liaison to the ITU-T
- someone from the IAB
- someone from the IESG

This does not automatically add up to 7 or more people, since we
have certain possible overlap; we should also take care in not
having a to strong representation from one single company.

We want to appoint the design team as soon as possible, and we
will approach people that matches the list above, and of course
we like the recipients of this mail to suggest names.


On behalf of the Internet Architecture Board (IAB)

Loa Andersson

-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                           loa@pi.se

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<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_38B70_01C8119A.94760F20--




From SharipigtailRudolph@porscheclub.com Thu Oct 18 12:25:36 2007
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From: "Jaime Voss" <SharipigtailRudolph@porscheclub.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:23:16 -0100
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_1BC9E_01C811A3.81E37C90
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://namebetter.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_1BC9E_01C811A3.81E37C90--




From FANgazsi@zoetbrood.com Thu Oct 18 14:34:58 2007
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:34:54 -0300
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
From: "FAN gazsi" <FANgazsi@zoetbrood.com>
Subject: nekuaple
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hay you ccamp-archive
bad news buddy, you got a small dickie!
http://imrmsls.com/

FAN gazsi




From Moin_Rizen@elianebenisti.com Thu Oct 18 14:40:34 2007
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Date:   Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:40:13 -0300
From:   "Moin Rizen" <Moin_Rizen@elianebenisti.com>
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How do you do? ccamp-archive
want big sausage? she wants it massive too
http://ilutu.com/

Moin Rizen




From LorenzobullfinchWolfe@filmsite.org Thu Oct 18 15:42:50 2007
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From: "Alfonso Ramsey" <LorenzobullfinchWolfe@filmsite.org>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your health
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:41:30 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_1C27BD_01C811BF.1227E7D0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://somemade.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_1C27BD_01C811BF.1227E7D0--




From hjRONDEAU@a-tails.com Thu Oct 18 18:39:38 2007
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From: "hj RONDEAU" <hjRONDEAU@a-tails.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: metnn"og
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:39:29 -0300
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howdy partner ccamp-archive
you think your a decent size? well she dont think so
http://www.imsvan.com/

hj RONDEAU
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>howdy partner ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>you think your a decent size? well she dont =
think=20
so</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://www.imsvan.com/">http://www.imsvan.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hj RONDEAU</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C811BE.9985A470--




From teoteo@quick.cz Thu Oct 18 19:37:12 2007
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To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Car bombing targets families returning from post-Ramadan festival
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Cantat, the 43-year-old lead singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire), left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driven by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.A Lithuanian court convicted Cantat in 2004 of beating 41-year-old French actress Marie Trintignant to death in a Vilnius hotel room, and he was ordered to spend eight years behind bars. He was released early for good behavior.KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspired by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Western parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance when they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalition.Spears' management company, the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a month.After filing for divorce in November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became increasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked on, then spent a month in rehab.Reports of partying and bad behavior persisted.Britney Spears drives away from a family-court appearance last week.Spears and Federline have been embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2, and Jayden James, 1.A court on October 1 ordered Spears to give up custody of her two children to her former husband, Kevin Federline. Last week, a judge set conditions for Spears to gain increased visitation rights.Her divorce attorney, Laura Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling reporters the singer "just wants to be a mom."


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
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d singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire)=
, left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driv=
en by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>A Lithuanian court convicte=
d Cantat in 2004 of beating 41-year-old French actress Marie Trintignant =
to death in a Vilnius hotel room, and he was ordered to spend eight years=
 behind bars. He was released early for good behavior.</o:p></span></font=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspi=
red by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Wes=
tern parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance w=
hen they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalitio=
n.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Spears' management company,=
 the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a=
 month.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>After filing for divorce in=
 November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, =
often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became i=
ncreasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked=
 on, then spent a month in rehab.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Reports of partying and bad=
 behavior persisted.</o:p></span></font></p>
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e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Britney Spears drives away =
from a family-court appearance last week.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Spears and Federline have b=
een embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2,=
 and Jayden James, 1.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>A court on October 1 ordere=
d Spears to give up custody of her two children to her former husband, Ke=
vin Federline. Last week, a judge set conditions for Spears to gain incre=
ased visitation rights.</o:p></span></font></p>
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porters the singer "just wants to be a mom."</o:p></span></font></p>
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From jparmley@ispnewyork.com Thu Oct 18 22:09:27 2007
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From: "Lois Lund" <jparmley@ispnewyork.com>
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Subject: Your prodigious rod Berry
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:14:49 +0800
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From pinduction@farmphun.com Fri Oct 19 01:47:18 2007
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From: Charles <pinduction@farmphun.com>
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Subject: Not no hierarchy
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products, or real estate. They would not find it useful to
and not the designer itself. Architects and draftspeople now have positive =
or negative. Researcher have predicted that in the

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From jabez@ret.com Fri Oct 19 04:35:12 2007
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From: "Sommer" <jabez@ret.com>
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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:47:47 +0000
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From Koady-Brock@COMTECSA.COM Fri Oct 19 06:27:47 2007
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From: "Koady Brock" <Koady-Brock@COMTECSA.COM>
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Subject: cryptal
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hello comrades ccamp-archive
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Koady Brock
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hello comrades ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
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From geraldblountoj@btinternet.com Fri Oct 19 06:28:04 2007
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From: "Gerald Blount" <geraldblountoj@btinternet.com>
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From Hagstozjsxs@3mcom.com Fri Oct 19 08:30:51 2007
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From: "GARRY Hagstoz" <Hagstozjsxs@3mcom.com>
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Subject: wegenis
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:30:42 -0000
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From tandyteri@brainsanity.com Fri Oct 19 16:13:41 2007
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From: "broderic leticia" <tandyteri@brainsanity.com>
To: "Corey Bates" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 19 17:06:37 2007
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Message-ID: <47191A4C.6070605@isocore.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:57:48 -0400
From: Matt Tylenda <mtylenda@isocore.com>
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Subject: Call for Participation: MPLS2007 International Conference, October
 28-31
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MPLS2007 International conference starting on October 28-31 in 
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Matt

-- 
Matt Tylenda
mtylenda@isocore.com
ISOCORE






From Bing@mrspooky.de Fri Oct 19 17:19:22 2007
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From: "Bing Pletch" <Bing@mrspooky.de>
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Subject: tresko
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Monday update.

Symb: T A D F (Tactical Air Defense Services)

Tactical Air Defense Services (TADS), a leading provider of tactical =
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Monday update.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Symb: T A D F (Tactical Air Defense =
Services)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Tactical Air Defense Services (TADS), a =
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>training and services to the United States and =
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From Woody.Bubrinka@sworn.dk Fri Oct 19 17:50:48 2007
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From: "Woody Bubrinka" <Woody.Bubrinka@sworn.dk>
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Subject: aspen0
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From raboin@orths.com Fri Oct 19 19:20:57 2007
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From: "Nate raboin" <raboin@orths.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: utreries
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:20:22 -0400
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From ggrovezv@mailcity.com Fri Oct 19 19:51:50 2007
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From: "Gloria Grove" <ggrovezv@mailcity.com>
To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org, cfrg-admin@ietf.org
Message-ID: <1192836746.2617@mailcity.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:32:26 +0000
Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Rolex Watchs under 250$    h5vht7
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From RomanwoodrowAbbott@wikipedia.org Sun Oct 21 11:30:06 2007
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From: "Lamar Carson" <RomanwoodrowAbbott@wikipedia.org>
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Subject: Your health
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
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style=3D"color:=20
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
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From quinn@cranevalve.com Sun Oct 21 12:58:45 2007
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Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:32:37 +0400
From: <quinn@cranevalve.com>
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From DrewelongateKlein@lyricsfreak.com Sun Oct 21 15:04:48 2007
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From: "Hugo Nunez" <DrewelongateKlein@lyricsfreak.com>
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Subject: Your life
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
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Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
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180 doses
$789.95
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360 doses
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When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
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------=_NextPart_000_289CE_01C81415.3D923580
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_289CE_01C81415.3D923580--




From GailtreeSeymour@catholic-forum.com Sun Oct 21 17:13:17 2007
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Message-ID: <7d48a01c814b6$ae6e3280$0501a8c0@bio>
From: "Jill Seymour" <GailtreeSeymour@catholic-forum.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order approved
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:18:55 +0000
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_7D486_01C814B6.AE6E3280
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_7D486_01C814B6.AE6E3280--




From KristinacounterargumentPhipps@bcpl.net Sun Oct 21 18:26:28 2007
Return-path: <KristinacounterargumentPhipps@bcpl.net>
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From: "Shelly Gunter" <KristinacounterargumentPhipps@bcpl.net>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your health
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:23:51 +0600
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_305EB_01C81431.6953ED00
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_305EB_01C81431.6953ED00--




From Aurel286@servicedentretienmicro.qc.ca Sun Oct 21 19:29:08 2007
Return-path: <Aurel286@servicedentretienmicro.qc.ca>
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From: "Aurel Oliverio" <Aurel286@servicedentretienmicro.qc.ca>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: fklopper
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:28:59 -0200
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Hello Day ccamp-archive
she'll be licking her lips when you flop your salami out
http://lebaeze.com/

Aurel Oliverio
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Hello Day ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>she'll be licking her lips when you flop your =
salami=20
out</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://lebaeze.com/">http://lebaeze.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Aurel Oliverio</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C81429.645B9F80--




From GenevainflameHelton@howstuffworks.com Sun Oct 21 22:22:12 2007
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From: "Molly Hollingsworth" <GenevainflameHelton@howstuffworks.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Hi
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:19:41 +0800
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_100BC7_01C81452.59DBA5E0
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://entercount.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_100BC7_01C81452.59DBA5E0--




From RalphtrafficSanders@oracle.com Mon Oct 22 00:54:26 2007
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From: "Benjamin Wood" <RalphtrafficSanders@oracle.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Approval process
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:52:31 -0700
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_DD46_01C81467.8F70CAE0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_DD46_01C81467.8F70CAE0--




From Kinnearfgu@begin.de Mon Oct 22 01:49:36 2007
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From: "efekan Kinnear" <Kinnearfgu@begin.de>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: naldaarb
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:50:13 +0200
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hey darling ccamp-archive
think the girls will accept your tiny dick? think again buddy
http://www.libertyp.com/

efekan Kinnear
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hey darling ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>think the girls will accept your tiny dick? =
think again=20
buddy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://www.libertyp.com/">http://www.libertyp.com/</A></FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>efekan Kinnear</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C81480.2DF85D00--




From bhoward161162@gmail.com Mon Oct 22 03:55:41 2007
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From: "Sybil Serrano" <16ng@ietf.org>
Reply-To: "Sybil Serrano" <16ng@ietf.org>
To: 16ng@ietf.org
Subject: Delightsome Cart1er w4tches at Prest1ge Repl1cas
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:55:01 -0500
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From TwilathuliumVann@lyricsfreak.com Mon Oct 22 04:00:46 2007
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From: "Florine Prescott" <TwilathuliumVann@lyricsfreak.com>
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Subject: Hi
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:51:47 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_4B444D_01C81481.A8081DA0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://sendring.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_4B444D_01C81481.A8081DA0--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 05:08:33 2007
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Message-ID: <011001c81489$b76788f0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
References: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:24 +0100
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Looks like a good positive response with no dissention.

We will adopt.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on 
> the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, 
> and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
> 






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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada 
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:20 +0100
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Note well

Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:00 AM
Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting 
in Vancouver, BC, Canada


> There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 70th
> IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada:
>
> November 12th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday,
> November 12th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). As always, all initial 
> submissions with a
> filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the
> appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced.  The
> Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday,
> November 5th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT).
>
> November  (14:00 UTC/GMT): Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and 
> higher)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted
> by Monday, November 19th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT).
>
> Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective
> cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts
> directory or announced until on or after Monday, December 3rd at 9:00
> AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT), when Internet-Draft posting resumes.  Please do not 
> wait until
> the last minute to submit.
>
> The Secretariat encourages you to submit your Internet-Drafts via the 
> Internet-Draft
> Submission Tool (IDST) https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi. If 
> you are unable to do
> so, then you may still submit your Internet-Drafts manually by sending 
> them to internet-
> drafts@ietf.org.  If you are submitting a version -00 WG draft that 
> replaces non-WG draft,
> then you must submit it manually as the current IDST cannot handle 
> replacements.  Please be
> sure to state that one draft replaces another in the cover note that 
> accompanies your
> submission.  Also, please note that the IDST will not accept drafts 
> submitted after their
> respective cutoff dates.
>
> Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any
> questions or concerns, then please send a message to
> internet-drafts@ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates
> for the 70th IETF Meeting can be found at 
> http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_70.html.
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> 






From JamaalfreneticBaird@humaneffort.com Mon Oct 22 07:53:45 2007
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Subject: Your health
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From CassMoreno@golfculinaria.nl Mon Oct 22 08:02:58 2007
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From: "Cass Moreno" <CassMoreno@golfculinaria.nl>
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Subject: aijd
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:03:06 +0200
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From Si139@golfculinaria.nl Mon Oct 22 08:07:01 2007
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From: "Si Lewy" <Si139@golfculinaria.nl>
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The two parties also missed a chance to form the government together following the March 2006 parliamentary election, disappointing supporters.She was there about 45 minutes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving without a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.The two blocs were central to the 2004 protests against electoral fraud that swept Yushchenko to power in peaceful upheaval known as the Orange Revolution. But the team shattered when he fired Tymoshenko as premier after seven months in office.Spears' management company, the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a month.Britney Spears drives away from a family-court appearance last week.Spears, 25, arrived at the Van Nuys Community Police Station at 9 p.m. (midnight ET) Monday, said Los Angeles Police Department spokesman Mike Lopez.Each count carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.The charges resulted from an August 6 incident in which Spears allegedly hit another car in a Studio City, California, parking lot. The paparazzi captured the accident on video.Spears and Federline have been embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2, and Jayden James, 1.Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>The two parties also missed=
 a chance to form the government together following the March 2006 parlia=
mentary election, disappointing supporters.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>She was there about 45 minu=
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ithout a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.</o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>The two blocs were central =
to the 2004 protests against electoral fraud that swept Yushchenko to pow=
er in peaceful upheaval known as the Orange Revolution. But the team shat=
tered when he fired Tymoshenko as premier after seven months in office.</=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Spears' management company,=
 the Firm, also quit after representing the singer for little more than a=
 month.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Britney Spears drives away =
from a family-court appearance last week.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Spears, 25, arrived at the =
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s Angeles Police Department spokesman Mike Lopez.</o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
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m penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>The charges resulted from a=
n August 6 incident in which Spears allegedly hit another car in a Studio=
 City, California, parking lot. The paparazzi captured the accident on vi=
deo.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
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een embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2,=
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_5ABE1_01C81494.FD440D70
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


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From beverly@atomic.com Mon Oct 22 11:47:47 2007
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Watches=20
Handbags & Purses=20
Luxury Pens=20
Tiffany & Co. Jewelry

SPECIAL OFFER! Order a second bag and
receive free shipping on all your bags!

The best prices!!!

Click here to view all product
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From BurlmedialWhitley@williecrawford.com Mon Oct 22 12:26:02 2007
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From: "Damion Knowles" <BurlmedialWhitley@williecrawford.com>
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Subject: Your order
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0
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</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://entercount.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_7B15_01C81439.605677B0--




From ShannagloomRossi@ritzcarlton.com Mon Oct 22 13:33:45 2007
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://sendring.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
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<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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------=_NextPart_000_75E3_01C81569.3B8C02C0--




From ConstancepleistoceneArias@interfax.ru Mon Oct 22 14:17:48 2007
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From: "Claudia Beltran" <ConstancepleistoceneArias@interfax.ru>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order approved
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:16:11 -0100
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------=_NextPart_000_9037E_01C814CF.6E5921A0--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 14:28:10 2007
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From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG 
         (ccamp) 
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A modified charter has been submitted for the Common Control and 
Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the
IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The modified
charter is provided below for informational purposes only. Please send
your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 29.

+++

Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp)
============================================

Current Status: Active Working Group

Chair(s):
* Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> 
* Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>

Routing Area Director(s):
* Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> 
* David Ward <dward@cisco.com> 

Routing Area Advisor:
* Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

Technical Advisor(s):
* Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>  

Mailing Lists:
General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org
In Body: subscribe ccamp
Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp

Description of Working Group:

Organizational Overview

The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a 

common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
physical 

path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service
providers 

(ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, 

Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation 

tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In
this 

context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of
attributes 

relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths.

CCAMP WG work scope includes:

- Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters
(measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are
required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in
conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to
ensure overall usefulness.

- Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for
link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP)
is included here.

- Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and
signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol
formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done
jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols.

- Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and
properties of an established path (tunnel tracing).

- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the
protocols and extensions specified within the WG.



- Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol 

extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet 

data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an 

SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that


the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification 

or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. 


CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:

- Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a
measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing
protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic
description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF.
The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in
the ISIS WG.

- Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path
and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a
domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region
of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the
PCE and MPLS WGs.

- Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path
protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection,
diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer
path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the
defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either
separately or in combination.

- Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for ASON are
not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these,
define mechanisms to address these requirements.

- Document issues and strategies for the migration of MPLS-based
deployments to GMPLS. Based on the outcome, identify protocol
machinery that implementations may have to change to ease the
migration from MPLS to GMPLS.

In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The
WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1.

Goals and Milestones:

Done



Post strawman WG goals and charter 

Done



Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for
signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be
considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. 

Done



Build appropriate design teams 

Done



Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane
protocol 

Done



Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol 

Done



Submit LMP MIB to IESG 

Done



Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG 

Done



Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG 

Done



Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG 

Done



Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol 

Done



Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing 

Done



Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG 

Done



Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of
more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of
continuation of WG 

Done



First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
OSPF 

Done



First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership 

Done



Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review 

Done



Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
OSPF 

Done



First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies 

Done



First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
Networks 

Done



First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN 

Done



First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions 

Done



Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review


Done



Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN 

Done



First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module 

Done



Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review


Done



First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues
for disjoint and protected paths 

Done



Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for
IESG review 

Done



Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review 

Done



First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions 

Done



Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements 

Done



Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG
review 

Nov 2007



First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE
signaling extensions 

Done



Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG
review 

Oct 2007



Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for
disjoint and protected paths for IESG review 

Done



Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review 

Jan 2008



Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for
IESG review 

Done



Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG
review 

Oct 2007



Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review 

Dec 2007



Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review 

Feb 2008



Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review 

Mar 2008



Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review 

Apr 2008



Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and
IESG review 

Oct 2007

Sep 2008



Dec 2008



First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed
Ethernet networks

Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and
explicitly-routed

Ethernet networks for IESG review 

Recharter or close Working Group 

Internet-Drafts:

Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS
(GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-
te-07.txt> (55171 bytes)
Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-06.t
xt> (47682 bytes)
A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain
Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-pa
th-comp-05.txt> (48843 bytes)
IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering
Node Capabilities
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt
> (26263 bytes)
Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks
(MRN/MLN)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.
txt> (61451 bytes)
Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi
Region Networks (MLN/MRN)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.
txt> (36366 bytes)
Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwo
rk-fmwk-04.txt> (44736 bytes)
Procedures for Dynamically Signaled Hierarchical Label Switched Paths
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-hierarchy-bis-
02.txt> (49105 bytes)
MEF Ethernet Traffic Parameters
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-p
arameters-02.txt> (23256 bytes)
Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic Engineering
Networks
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shut
down-04.txt> (26060 bytes)
Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment
Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03
txt> (35730 bytes)
Traffic Engineering Database Management Information Base in support of
GMPLS
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-02.t
xt> (49569 bytes)
Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and
Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching
(GMPLS) Network
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.
txt> (25420 bytes)
Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS
Networks
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwo
rk-reqts-02.txt> (29760 bytes)
Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recov
ery-analysis-02.txt> (57455 bytes)
OSPF Traffic Engineering (OSPF-TE) Extensions in Support of Inter-AS
Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
Traffic Engineering
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-ex
tension-01.txt> (28776 bytes)
Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.
txt> (33723 bytes)

Request For Comments:

Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional
Description (RFC 3471) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3471.txt> (72105
bytes) updated by RFC 4201,RFC 4328,RFC 4872
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling
Constraint-based Routed Label Distribution Protocol (CR-LDP) Extensions
(RFC 3472) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3472.txt> (49006 bytes) updated
by RFC 3468,RFC 4201
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Signaling Resource
ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions (RFC 3473)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3473.txt> (91808 bytes) updated by RFC
4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063
Tracing Requirements for Generic Tunnels (RFC 3609)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3609.txt> (17859 bytes) 
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Extensions for SONET and SDH
Control (RFC 3946) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3946.txt> (52205 bytes)
obsoleted by RFC 4606
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching Architecture (RFC 3945)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3945.txt> (166700 bytes) 
GMPLS Signaling Procedure For Egress Control (RFC 4003)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4003.txt> (10306 bytes) updates RFC 3473
Requirements for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Signaling Usage and Extensions
for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4139)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4139.txt> (36660 bytes) 
Generalize Multiprotocol Label Switching(GMPLS) User-Network Interface
(UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE)
Support for the Overlay Model (RFC 4208)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4208.txt> (28693 bytes) 
Synchronous Optical Network (SONET)/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH)
Encoding for Link Management Protocol (LMP) Test Messages (RFC 4207)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4207.txt> (29390 bytes) 
Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4204)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4204.txt> (186515 bytes) 
OSPF Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
(RFC 4203) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4203.txt> (23130 bytes) updates
RFC 3630
Routing Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4202) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4202.txt>
(57333 bytes) 
Link Management Protocol (LMP) for Dense Wavelength Division
Multiplexing (DWDM) Optical Line Systems (RFC 4209)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4209.txt> (33906 bytes) 
Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4258)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4258.txt> (48558 bytes) 
Framework for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based
Control of Synchronous Digital Hierarchy/Synchronous Optical Networking
(SDH/SONET) Networks (RFC 4257) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4257.txt>
(86974 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Extensions
for G.709 Optical Transport Networks Control (RFC 4328)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4328.txt> (52145 bytes) updates RFC 3471
Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC
4327) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4327.txt> (150509 bytes) obsoleted by
RFC 4631
A Transport Network View of the Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC
4394) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4394.txt> (40811 bytes) 
A Lexicography for the Interpretation of Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) Terminology within The Context of the ITU-T's
Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) Architecture (RFC 4397)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4397.txt> (40331 bytes) 
Analysis of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based
Recovery Mechanisms (including Protection and Restoration) (RFC 4428)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4428.txt> (118749 bytes) 
Recovery (Protection and Restoration) Terminology for Generalized
Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4427)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4427.txt> (43842 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Functional
Specification (RFC 4426) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4426.txt> (55820
bytes) 
Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Hello: A
Clarification Statement (RFC 4558) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4558.txt>
(14185 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Extensions for
Synchronous Optical Network (SONET) and Synchronous Digital Hierarchy
(SDH) Control (RFC 4606) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4606.txt> (53492
bytes) obsoletes RFC 3946
Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC
4631) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4631.txt> (152560 bytes) obsoletes
RFC 4327
Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched
Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements (RFC 4652)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt> (47179 bytes) 
Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switch Path (LSP) (RFC 4736)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4736.txt> (28850 bytes) 
A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic
Engineering (RFC 4726) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4726.txt> (53076
bytes) 
GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information (RFC 4783)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4783.txt> (42068 bytes) updates RFC 3473
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Label Switching Router
(LSR) Management Information Base (RFC 4803)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4803.txt> (79925 bytes) 
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering
Management Information Base (RFC 4802)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4802.txt> (118164 bytes) 
Definitions of Textual Conventions for Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) Management (RFC 4801)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4801.txt> (16347 bytes) 
Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic
Engineering (RSVP-TE) (RFC 4874) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4874.txt>
(59569 bytes) updates RFC 3473,RFC 3209
RSVP-TE Extensions in support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol
Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery (RFC 4872)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4872.txt> (111882 bytes) updates RFC 3471/
updated by RFC 4873
GMPLS Segment Recovery (RFC 4873) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4873.txt>
(56859 bytes) updates RFC 4872,RFC 3473
Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE (RFC 4920)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4920.txt> (88679 bytes) 
Routing extensions for discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch
Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) mesh membership (RFC 4972)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4972.txt> (32044 bytes) 
Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in support of
Calls (RFC 4974) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt> (72000 bytes)
updates RFC 3473
Use of Addresses in Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
Networks (RFC 4990) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4990.txt> (50908 bytes)

Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful
Restart (RFC 5063) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt> (58542 bytes)
updates RFC 2961,RFC 3473




From NolaparaguayBynum@webpasties.com Mon Oct 22 14:43:13 2007
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From: "Rosalyn Xiong" <NolaparaguayBynum@webpasties.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your family
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:40:09 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
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10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
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30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_A08CA_01C814DB.5DA532C0
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
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<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
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local 
drugstore*</td>
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price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
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style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_A08CA_01C814DB.5DA532C0--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 22 15:53:29 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Working Group Last Call - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt
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Hi,

This email begins a two week last call on 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt

Please send your comments to the list by 20.00 GMT on Monday 5th November.

As I am a co-author, Deborah will arbitrate in all disputes.

Thanks,
Adrian 






From chris@evensenfamily.com Mon Oct 22 18:19:04 2007
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From: "Karen Hoang" <16ng@ietf.org>
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From OrlandotreasonousChandler@chipublib.org Mon Oct 22 19:42:25 2007
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From: "Alfonso Daniel" <OrlandotreasonousChandler@chipublib.org>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Approval process
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_2000_01C81505.2C4617B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://mouthbasic.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
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</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_2000_01C81505.2C4617B0--




From vhsaz9bro@unisys.com Mon Oct 22 21:24:23 2007
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To: ldapext-archive@ietf.org
From: "Grisel Sunday" <gkz3xkonc@eaglegl.com>
Subject: A++ QualityRolexRep1icaWatches - perfect clones of well known brands break
Message-ID: <162x36767.0697k34150833@eaglegl.com>
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From AlvarobodybuildingHutchinson@shadisongs.com Mon Oct 22 22:05:33 2007
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From: "Marcel Blankenship" <AlvarobodybuildingHutchinson@shadisongs.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>,
	<ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Your order
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:02:57 +0600
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
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Price in your local drugstore*
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10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
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------=_NextPart_000_C4B1_01C81521.847EB6A0
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<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
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<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
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90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
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style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_C4B1_01C81521.847EB6A0--




From PasqualeconvinceBerg@standardchartered.com Mon Oct 22 23:13:12 2007
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Subject: Your life
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_D114_01C81522.9D5B0B00
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://sendring.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_D114_01C81522.9D5B0B00--




From sheena@astoriabanquets.com Mon Oct 22 23:45:48 2007
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 05:45:40 +0200
From: "sheena Harm" <sheena@astoriabanquets.com>
Reply-To: "sheena Harm" <sheena@astoriabanquets.com>
Message-ID: <632093050053.312228975712@astoriabanquets.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: nozledne
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From cookie890@astoriabanquets.com Mon Oct 22 23:45:56 2007
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Subject: noruen1
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From NolanhandwrittenCalhoun@washingtonpost.com Tue Oct 23 01:38:42 2007
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
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<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
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<tr>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
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price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_49AE8_01C81537.83A9D870--




From jpstrategy@guppy.com Tue Oct 23 03:20:38 2007
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long-term study of the physical ramifications of the field.  are several ad=
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From PattyguAbrams@volleyball.ca Tue Oct 23 04:21:24 2007
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
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disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_FEA48_01C8154D.A5243DE0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
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this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://exactthus.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_FEA48_01C8154D.A5243DE0--




From PansykeenanKoehler@derstandard.at Tue Oct 23 09:28:17 2007
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From: "Celina Driver" <PansykeenanKoehler@derstandard.at>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your life
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:27:16 -0100
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_21CE_01C81578.83854FF0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a=20
href=3D"http://surprisehead.com" style=3D"text-decoration:=20
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_21CE_01C81578.83854FF0--




From DeboratroutmanHadley@williecrawford.com Tue Oct 23 09:51:58 2007
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From: "Therese Felton" <DeboratroutmanHadley@williecrawford.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your life
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:48:34 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://suitburn.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_2ACF8_01C8157B.D274CD90--




From ElinorinvaluableKenny@interfax.ru Tue Oct 23 11:39:31 2007
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From: "Noreen Witherspoon" <ElinorinvaluableKenny@interfax.ru>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your family
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_2FC0_01C8158B.96AFF310
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://suitburn.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
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From hmdim@bothellpethospital.com Tue Oct 23 13:11:45 2007
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Subject: China protests Dalai Lama honor
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After filing for divorce in November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became increasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked on, then spent a month in rehab.Reports of partying and bad behavior persisted.The two parties also missed a chance to form the government together following the March 2006 parliamentary election, disappointing supporters.She was there about 45 minutes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving without a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.After her September 9 performance on the MTV Video Music Awards, critics derided her singing and dancing as lackluster and said she appeared overweight for her sequined two-piece costume.After holding talks with the president, Tymoshenko and the leaders of the pro-Yushchenko party signed an agreement that gives Tymoshenko's party the right to name the prime minister -- virtually assuring she would get the post -- and allows Yushchenko's party to name the parliament speaker.Her divorce attorney, Laura Wasser, resigned last month as her legal representative after telling reporters the singer "just wants to be a mom."Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.


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From TroyinabilityTucker@flickr.com Tue Oct 23 14:28:02 2007
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From: "Don Henry" <TroyinabilityTucker@flickr.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your life
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:26:11 -0200
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_149A3_01C815A2.56E17300
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a=20
href=3D"http://surprisehead.com" style=3D"text-decoration:=20
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


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From tersondisquisition@cpsdocs.com Tue Oct 23 14:33:25 2007
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From: "no_reply@site.careerbuilder.com" <no_reply@site.careerbuilder.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: CarrerBuilder.com Job Matches: Your Job Alert for Today.
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:45:56 +0300
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Rue St. Laurent, Sept-Iles, New Brunswick, Canada. 
International head office phone: +44 (0)70 9289 6898 
US and Canada fax: +1(647)723-7343

Hello! 

While searching online resumes to find a new Regional Business
 Representative, I ran across your brief resume. From the experiences and
 qualifications you have listed I feel you would be likely candidate to fill
 this position. 

We at Nakatomi Hakko Consulting are dedicated to providing a wide range
 of services to assist people who have worked abroad in Income Tax
 Refunds. 
With 3 years experience in the international tax refunds area, the aim
 of Nakatomi Hakko Consulting tax refund dept. is to obtain the maximum
 possible legal refund , in the fastest time possible and with the
 minimum amount of hassle. 

We are currently searching for qualified individuals to join our team.
 There are several types of positions available throughout the United
 States and Canada. We are looking for tax preparers, District Managers,
 Office Supervisors and Regional Business Representatives. Year-Round and
 Seasonal opportunities are available. We also offer ownership
 potential. 

The Regional Business Representative is responsible for the
 administration and execution of company plans, policies and procedures within the
 territory and will be responsible for developing and achieving specific
 service and operational objectives, assisting the Director of Market
 Development in marketing and service initiatives and will work
 cooperatively with Key Account Manager's, Territory Manager's and other Regional
 personnel. 

Candidates for the Regional Business Representative position with
 Nakatomi Hakko Consulting must be hard working and employ excellent
 communication skills. Responsibilities of the position include the use of a
 variety of web based tools to investigate and to resolve issues in a
 professional and timely manner. 
Income potential for this position is tremendous. Based upon
 qualifications and experience, monthly income ranges from $5000 - $6000. 
Other benefits associated with this position include Medical and Dental
 Insurance, and Educational Advancement Opportunities. 

 Salary: Annual gross starting salary of $48k-72k USD, paid in monthly
 installments by your choice. 
  * Performance Bonuses: Up to three percent of your annual gross
 salary, paid bi-monthly by your choice.
  * Benefits: Standard benefits for salaried-exempt employees (one
 month after beginning your hire date), including the following 
          o 401(k) retirement account
          o Child daycare assistance
          o Education assistance
          o Health, dental, life and disability insurance
          o Sick leave
          o Vacation and personal days 

If you feel that the skills you possess make you an eligible candidate
 for this position you may contact your personal supervisor to receive
 more information or to apply. 
We at Nakatomi Hakko Consulting hope that you'll accept this job offer
 and look forward to welcoming you aboard. Your immediate supervisor
 will be Mr. Mark Jacobs, HR Department Manager. Your immediate supervisor
 will be Mr. Mark Jacobs, HR Department Manager. Feel free to call Mr.
 Jacobs or me and leave us your questions or concerns. Call the main
 number in the letterhead above during normal business hours.

To accept this job offer: 
Please forward your resume (in .DOC or .TXT format), contact
 information and questions to HR dept. e-mail: dbeasley@e-consulting.us

You will be contacted within 5 business days. 

Best regards,
David Beasley
HR Dept.
Nakatomi Hakko Tax Refund Consulting Group LLC.




From ThurmanforthrightWilkinson@wnba.com Tue Oct 23 14:54:18 2007
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_1C596_01C815A6.08DA5560
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
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<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
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90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
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none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_1C596_01C815A6.08DA5560--




From Dai243@888twrparts.com Tue Oct 23 16:14:46 2007
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Date:   Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:14:22 +0200
From:   "Dai londrigan" <Dai243@888twrparts.com>
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gud morning ccamp-archive
great sex, great orgasms, great cock, anything else?
http://www.pbtrade.com/

Dai londrigan




From jacksonodom_oz@online.no Tue Oct 23 18:01:36 2007
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:41:42 +0000
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Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Do you want Rolex?    emjztm
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Dear behave@ietf.org

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behave@ietf.org wrote:
> SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER- I Selling Rolexes and other watches? DO uou want?
7tgzhl3cf7-
out me now
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From Desautelfump@diversionsscuba.com Tue Oct 23 19:32:30 2007
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From: "Xiangyu Desautel" <Desautelfump@diversionsscuba.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: opticall
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:32:54 +0300
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hello you ccamp-archive
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>hello you ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>you'll never look back once you have enlarged =
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From AngietrulyVogel@millenniumstadium.com Tue Oct 23 20:44:54 2007
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_D64DC_01C815D7.04164760
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
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this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://suitburn.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_D64DC_01C815D7.04164760--




From tattractive@farmphun.com Wed Oct 24 01:57:27 2007
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the reluctant are coerced into dealing with the computer and its
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0">
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From exgods@corestar.com Wed Oct 24 02:05:49 2007
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From hwoodrufftd@wipro.com Wed Oct 24 03:46:49 2007
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From Orison-Rijpert@dqn.co.uk Wed Oct 24 09:51:29 2007
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From: "Orison Rijpert" <Orison-Rijpert@dqn.co.uk>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: ?ashen
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:51:01 -0200
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Hello Sir ccamp-archive
your friends aren't joking when they say you can add 3"
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Orison Rijpert
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Hello Sir ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>your friends aren't joking when they say you =
can add=20
3"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2><A=20
HREF=3D"http://www.roobios.com/">http://www.roobios.com/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Orison Rijpert</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Danielsenwgw@domserandplummer.com Wed Oct 24 09:55:55 2007
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From: "Lucian Danielsen" <Danielsenwgw@domserandplummer.com>
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Subject: arvottaa
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:55:27 -0200
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wot up ccamp-archive
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>wot up ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>after penis pills, you'll have a trunk for her =
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From Vanessanieves@domserandplummer.com Wed Oct 24 09:56:03 2007
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From: "Vanessa nieves" <Vanessanieves@domserandplummer.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@megatron.ietf.org>
Subject: aspermia
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:55:44 -0200
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Good day ccamp-archive
still got that little thing dangling between your legs huh?
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Vanessa nieves
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Good day ccamp-archive</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>still got that little thing dangling between =
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huh?</FONT></DIV>
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HREF=3D"http://www.rmfolife.com/">http://www.rmfolife.com/</A></FONT></DI=
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<DIV><FONT Arial size=3D2>Vanessa nieves</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From eluna_dx@baxter.com Wed Oct 24 14:36:29 2007
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Reply-To: "Erwin Luna" <eluna_dx@baxter.com>
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From quinn@mcgix.net Wed Oct 24 18:13:24 2007
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:03:31 +0700
From: <quinn@mcgix.net>
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Subject: ccamp-archive sitting next to a hot blonde
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 24 22:45:31 2007
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:35:45 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: About extensions to OSPF in support of inter-AS TE
To: CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hi CCAMPers,

After discussion on the OSPF list and considering how we include inter-AS TE function in OSPFv3, we propose to change the mechanism for OSPFv2 to use a new and separate opaque LSA for inter-AS TE links(Main purpose is to make sure that the OSPFv2 and v3 implementations are samilar). Before we change the draft, we want to give you an opportunity to discuss this if you disagree.

You can find the draft by:http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt



Best regards,   
Mach Chen






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Cantat, the 43-year-old lead singer of one of France's most popular bands, Noir Desir (Black Desire), left the Muret prison near the southwest city of Toulouse in a car driven by his group's drummer, Denis Barthe.KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Inspired by President Viktor Yushchenko's tacit endorsement, Ukraine's pro-Western parties moved closer to restoring their Orange Revolution alliance when they signed an informal agreement vowing to form a governing coalition.The pop star's first album of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month. Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko (left) has received support from Ukranian President YushchenkoReports of partying and bad behavior persisted.Final official results from September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming that Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Pop star Britney Spears turned herself in to be booked on charges stemming from an August fender bender, police said.Spears and Federline have been embroiled in a bitter custody fight over their sons, Sean Preston, 2, and Jayden James, 1.


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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 26 10:39:05 2007
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Message-Id: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
   "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>,
   yakov@juniper.net
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:11 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Deborah and Adrian,

Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below).
Please let us know the status of our request.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700
From:    Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
To:      "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	 "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc:      "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.
	  com>,
	 yakov@juniper.net
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document

Deborah and Adrian,

On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
in the latest version.

Yakov.


------- End of Forwarded Message





From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Fri Oct 26 11:29:11 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>,
	<ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,
	"Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>,
	"Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>,
	<yakov@juniper.net>
References: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:18:22 +0100
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Yakov,

Currently the level of discussion on the list does not warrant this being 
polled for adoption.

Further, I am concerned that the failure to limit the applicability of the 
draft is a direct proposal to support flooding of TE information from one AS 
to another. Whether this would result in stressing BGP or attempting TE 
aggregation, I don't know, but it is my understanding that such an 
application would be contrary to decisions already taken by the CCAMP 
working group about how to perform inter-domain TE, and would be a severe 
risk to the stability of the Internet.

I propose that we put this topic on the CCAMP agenda for Vancouver to see 
whether we can scope the problem:
- Are we limiting ourselves to the distribution of CE-PE TE information?
- What about PE-PE TE information?
- Do we need to distribute the information outside the AS?

You said in an earlier email that you do not want to constrain the future. 
That is a noble statement, but you probably also want to protect the 
Internet against abuse of protocol extensions that you design. So we just 
need to get the scoping right.

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
<dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
<dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
document


> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below).
> Please let us know the status of our request.
>
> Yakov.
> ------- Forwarded Message
>
> Date:    Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700
> From:    Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
> To:      "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> cc:      "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" 
> <dwfedyk@nortel.
>   com>,
> yakov@juniper.net
> Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
> document
>
> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> in the latest version.
>
> Yakov.
>
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message
>
> 







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From: "Kenneth Santiago" <kennethsantiago_nr@webtv.net>
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From: "Lupe Head" <RichiesequentialNieves@suburbanchicagonews.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order approved
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:49:43 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_27B03_01C81A3B.19199A00
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://dooryoung.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_27B03_01C81A3B.19199A00--




From mose7twila@charmo.com Mon Oct 29 11:21:34 2007
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From: "burnaby debbie" <mose7twila@charmo.com>
To: "Reynaldo Pool" <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: exclusive watches, affordable prices rolex
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:33:40 +0000
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fresh presents - new models - affordable prices!  

http://vaichoau.com/




From DenaharveyPutnam@findmyrealestate.com Mon Oct 29 12:00:36 2007
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From: "Rosetta Hadley" <DenaharveyPutnam@findmyrealestate.com>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:58:41 -0300
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Even if you have no erection problems Viagra would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 30 =
minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 24 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$99.95
$34.49

30 tabs
60 doses
$299.95
$88.50

60 tabs
120 doses
$449.95
$141.02

90 tabs
180 doses
$769.95
$176.40

180 tabs
360 doses
$1299.95
$298.46

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_149BF_01C81A3C.58EA7720
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Viagra would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
30 minutes. The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 24 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://deepmount.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_149BF_01C81A3C.58EA7720--




From LynnelegantFritz@wikipedia.org Mon Oct 29 12:34:37 2007
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From: "Cathy Broussard" <LynnelegantFritz@wikipedia.org>
To: <ccamp-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your life
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:33:43 +0500
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_3EE1F_01C81A49.A152EBC0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://dooryoung.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_3EE1F_01C81A49.A152EBC0--




From l_solisui@mail.com Mon Oct 29 13:05:33 2007
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From: "Lacey Solis" <l_solisui@mail.com>
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Message-ID: <1193676152.9523@mail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:42:32 +0000
Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Rolex Watchs under 250$    euvi
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	charset="iso-8859-2"
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Dear bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org

http://lewuzura00433.googlepages.com/index.html

What is Prestige Replica store?

At Prestige Replica, we specialize in the sales of brand-name quality,
luxury replicas at some of the lowest prices possible. With our large selection of
products, you can be sure to find that perfect gift for yourself or a loved one.

Visit Prestige Replica Shop!

http://lewuzura00433.googlepages.com/index.html

Thanks
Jennifer Anniston


bridge-mib-admin@ietf.org wrote:
> SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER- I Selling Rolexes and other watches? DO uou want?
la5v4ka4hw-
out me now
http://lewuzura00433.googlepages.com/index.html/remove/



From LeahwhereuponTeague@slashdot.org Mon Oct 29 13:23:12 2007
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Subject: Your health
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:22:41 +0600
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------=_NextPart_000_CD5C_01C819FC.A6802C90
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Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_CD5C_01C819FC.A6802C90
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.2759" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://deepmount.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_CD5C_01C819FC.A6802C90--




From SophieimplementorMelvin@peopleenespanol.com Mon Oct 29 14:59:20 2007
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From: "Lana Wiseman" <SophieimplementorMelvin@peopleenespanol.com>
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Subject: Your order
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------=_NextPart_000_6C102_01C81A5D.C869B270
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Even if you have no erection problems Cialis would help you to make =
better sex more often and to bring unimaginable plesure to her. Just =
disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for action in 15 =
minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking this =
medication were able to have perfect erection during 36 hours!

Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

90 tabs
180 doses
$789.95
$242.06

180 tabs
360 doses
$1325.95
$445.61

When you are young and stressed up&hellip;
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_6C102_01C81A5D.C869B270
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>=20
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
border: 3px=20
solid #F28B0C; padding: 0 10px 0 10px;">
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
Cialis would=20
help you to make <b>better sex more often</b> and to bring unimaginable =
plesure=20
to her. Just disolve half a pill under your tongue and get ready for =
action in=20
15 minutes! The tests showed that the majority of men after taking =
this=20
medication were able to have <b>perfect erection</b> during 36 hours!</p>
<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://deepmount.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_6C102_01C81A5D.C869B270--




From rosemarie_w.dukes_zq@gmx.de Mon Oct 29 15:04:18 2007
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From: "Rosemarie W. Dukes" <rosemarie_w.dukes_zq@gmx.de>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:41:13 +0000
Message-ID: <1193683273.8176@gmx.de>
Subject: SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Do you want Rolex?    s7r
To: asrg-request@ietf.org, ccamp-archive@ietf.org
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Dear asrg-request@ietf.org

http://mifibuna98780.googlepages.com/index.html

What is Prestige Replica store?

At Prestige Replica, we specialize in the sales of brand-name quality,
luxury replicas at some of the lowest prices possible. With our large selection of
products, you can be sure to find that perfect gift for yourself or a loved one.

Visit Prestige Replica Shop!

http://mifibuna98780.googlepages.com/index.html

Thanks
Mary Vargas


asrg-request@ietf.org wrote:
> SOLD OUT -LIMITED OFFER-Do you want Rolex?
1cyg1s2s82-
out me now
http://mifibuna98780.googlepages.com/index.html/remove/



From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 29 15:29:21 2007
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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt 
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN)
	Author(s)	: K. Shiomoto, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt
	Pages		: 27
	Date		: 2007-10-29
	
Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) 
     have been related to environments hosting devices with a single 
     switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such 
     data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. 
     By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS 
     provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-
     layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple 
     switching technologies.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt

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A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:25:07 -0400
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

Sorry for the delay, I had missed that one - in line.

On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a  
>>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or
>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to
>>>>>>>>> convey
>>>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider
>>>>>>>>> Edge) - CE
>>>>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility  
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then
>>>>>>>>> be used
>>>>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering  
>>>>>>>>> Label
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>>>>>> application ... sounds
>>>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE
>>>>>>>> to CE
>>>>>>>> TE LSP
>>>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much
>>>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE  
>>>>>>> attribute, as
>>>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the  
>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link  
>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>>>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>>>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this  
>>>>> info
>>>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP
>>>> consensus
>>>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to
>>>> simply reuse
>>>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
>>>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
>>>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
>>>> ones. Makes sense ?
>>>
>>> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
>>> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
>>> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
>>> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
>>> first draft.
>>
>> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
>> applications.
>
> As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10):
>
>    If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>    what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>    draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
>    to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

Sure my concern is basically to see an ID redefining all TE related  
attributes
rather than carrying in a new BGP attributes all TLVs that have been  
defined
already for IGPs ?

>
>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
>>> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
>>> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.
>>
>> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE
>> TLVs.
>>
>> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such  
>> "external"
>> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a  
>> new BGP
>> attribute
>
> In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can
> not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update
> message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP
> *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we
> defined a new BGP TE attribute).
>
> Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE
> TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute".
>
>>         that will not have the ability to support other
>> applications.
>> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link
>> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE.
>
> See my first comment above.
>
>> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and
>> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different
>> approach for that generic draft.
>
> So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11
> to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft.

No no ... I'm proposing to define a BGP attribute carrying the IGP TE  
TLV.

>
>>> That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two  
>>> IDs.
>>>
>>> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
>>> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-
>>> attribute,
>>> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
>>> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
>>> from your draft:
>>>
>>>    This document also defines a new attribute called the
>>>    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in  
>>> [RFC3784].
>>>    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
>>>    revision of this document.
>>>
>>> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
>>> are defined in rfc4203.
>>
>> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.
>>
>>> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
>>> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
>>> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
>>> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
>>> in rfc4203).
>>
>> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
>> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
>> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
>> specified for IGP TE.
>
> See my comments above.
>
> With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs
> to carry more information than what is currently defined in
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus
> of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added,
> and then we'll add it to the document.

Well this is the approach of (potentially) redefining everything as  
opposed to
carrying the IGP TE TLV in that new BGP attribute ?

Cheers.

JP.

>
> Yakov.




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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 12:23:57 2007
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Subject: Vancouver agenda
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Hi,

We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat 
appears to have allocated three!).

So we need to start building our agenda.

We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
- The progress with GELS
- Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
   from outside ASes
   See
   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
      in BGP

What else would you like to see on the agenda?

Cheers,
Adrian (per pro Deborah) 






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From: "Domingo rhein" <Domingo788@php-links.de>
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Good day ccamp-archive
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Domingo rhein
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From edr@boeckmans.com Tue Oct 30 15:00:45 2007
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<A HREF=3D"http://cyufcji.yespopulate.cn/?088876557125">
<IMG SRC=3D"cid:006901c81b43$7a884990$99aa7a5b@2DDLIJ18">
</A>
</TD></TR>
<TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLSPASING=3D"0" CELLPASSING=3D"0" ALIGN=3D"CENTER">
<TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT"><TD>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Bertrand Cantat was sentenc=
ed to eight years in prison.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>The pop star's first album =
of new material since 2003 is set for release later this month. </o:p></s=
pan></font></p>
</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLSPASING=3D"0" CELLPASSING=3D"0" ALIGN=3D"CENTER">
<TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT"><TD>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>The charges resulted from a=
n August 6 incident in which Spears allegedly hit another car in a Studio=
 City, California, parking lot. The paparazzi captured the accident on vi=
deo.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Each count carries a maximu=
m penalty of six months in jail or a $1,000 fine.</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>She was there about 45 minu=
tes while being booked on misdemeanor counts of hit-and-run and driving w=
ithout a valid California driver's license, Lopez said.</o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>TOULOUSE, France (AP) -- Fr=
ench rock star Bertrand Cantat, convicted for beating his actress girlfri=
end to death, left prison Tuesday after spending four years behind bars.<=
/o:p></span></font></p>
</TD></TR>
</TABLE>
<TABLE BORDER=3D"0" CELLSPASING=3D"0" CELLPASSING=3D"0" ALIGN=3D"CENTER">
<TR ALIGN=3D"LEFT"><TD>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>"We have drawn conclusions =
from what happened in previous years," Tymoshenko said in remarks confirm=
ed by her office. "We firmly know what to do, we firmly know how, and wit=
h which team."</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>In September, a judge order=
ed Spears, 25, to submit to random drug tests after finding she engaged i=
n "habitual, frequent, and continuous use of controlled substances and al=
cohol."</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>Final official results from=
 September 30 parliamentary elections were released Monday, confirming th=
at Yushchenko's party and that of former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko =
won a majority in parliament, giving them the right to form a cabinet.</o=
:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-US  styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>After filing for divorce in=
 November 2006, Spears was frequently seen enjoying Hollywood nightlife, =
often in the company of "celebutante" Paris Hilton. Her behavior became i=
ncreasingly erratic; in February, she shaved her head as paparazzi looked=
 on, then spent a month in rehab.</o:p></span></font></p>
</TD></TR>
</TABLE>

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tUqo9T+MM3QAQkAAADs= 

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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 18:44:57 2007
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: Re: Vancouver agenda
References: <011a01c81b0f$4dad1fb0$5aa92f40@your029b8cecfe>
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Hi Adrian, there seems to be some interest in the wavelength switched 
optical stuff. There should be:
(a) framework discussion/draft (we've updated and would like this to be 
a working group draft)
(b) label format (I was hoping Otani et. al. would be updating their draft)
(c) signaling discussions (I've just submitted a draft and last time 
Xu/King had a draft)
(d) information for RWA (I'll be submitting this shortly, its 
independent of how we distribute it, e.g., an IGP or some other method)

Hence this would make a moderately "chunky" session or sub-session.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the 
> Secretariat appears to have allocated three!).
>
> So we need to start building our agenda.
>
> We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
> - The progress with GELS
> - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
>   from outside ASes
>   See
>   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
>   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
>   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
>      in BGP
>
> What else would you like to see on the agenda?
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian (per pro Deborah)
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237






From ScottievignetteMelendez@suburbanchicagonews.com Tue Oct 30 18:59:05 2007
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
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<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
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------=_NextPart_000_3A39_01C81B48.74353B20--




From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 30 22:59:15 2007
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Subject: RE: Vancouver agenda
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Organization: Shanghai Jiao Tong University
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Hi Adrian and Deborah,

We are coming up with a newer version of LSP dynamical provisioning
performance metrics draft (previously draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-01.txt).
It received quite a few discussion in the off list discussion group. 

The authors hope that a slot being allocated so that we can hear more
comments from the WG folks. 
We would also like to hear the WG's interest in progressing this toward a WG
document.

Thanks,
Weiqiang Sun

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:10 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
Subject: Vancouver agenda

Hi,

We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat

appears to have allocated three!).

So we need to start building our agenda.

We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
- The progress with GELS
- Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
   from outside ASes
   See
   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
      in BGP

What else would you like to see on the agenda?

Cheers,
Adrian (per pro Deborah) 









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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
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This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Networks
	Author(s)	: T. Nadeau, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 2007-10-31
	
   This document describes requirements for operations and management
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Package
Quantity
Price in your local drugstore*
Our price
LearnMoreNow

10 tabs
20 doses
$95.95
$34.19

30 tabs
60 doses
$349.95
$104.66

60 tabs
120 doses
$549.95
$180.15

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180 doses
$789.95
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360 doses
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When you are aged and never give up&hellip;
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.
------=_NextPart_000_9999_01C80604.6C977440
Content-Type: text/html;
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<div style=3D"margin: 10px 20px 10px 20px; background-color: #ffe; =
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<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">Even if you have no erection problems =
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<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
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<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
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</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$95.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.19</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$349.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$104.66</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$549.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$180.15</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$789.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$242.06</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1325.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$445.61</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Cialis gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_9999_01C80604.6C977440--




From FeleciawastewaterSaldana@orablogs.com Wed Oct 31 17:31:53 2007
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From: "Terra Hanks" <FeleciawastewaterSaldana@orablogs.com>
To: <aaa29352@ietf.org>,
	<aa04045@ietf.org,
	<dbwippm-archive@ietf.org,
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------=_NextPart_000_3B164_01C81C05.70002110
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<center><table style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; background-color: =
#ffd; width:=20
90%; font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: center;">
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Package</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Quantity</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">Price in your =
local 
drugstore*</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><b>Our =
price</b></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px; background-color: =
#ffa;"=20
rowspan=3D"6" align=3D"center" valign=3D"middle"><p style=3D"font-size: =
14pt;=20
text-align: center; text-decoration: none;"><b><a =
href=3D"http://mountchart.com"=20
style=3D"text-decoration: =
none;"><u>Learn<br>More<br>Now</u></a></b></p></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">10 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">20 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$99.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$34.49</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">30 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$88.50</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">60 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">120 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$449.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$141.02</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">90 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$769.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$176.40</b></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">180 tabs</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;">360 doses</td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><strike =
style=3D"color:=20
#777;">$1299.95</strike></td>
<td style=3D"border: 1px solid #F28B0C; padding: 2px;"><span =
style=3D"color: 
#900;"><b>$298.46</b></span></td>
</tr>
</table></center>
<p style=3D"font-size: 13pt;">When you are young and stressed =
up&hellip;<br>
When you are aged and never give up&hellip;<br>
Viagra gives you confidence in any chance, every time.</p>
</div>
</BODY></HTML>


------=_NextPart_000_3B164_01C81C05.70002110--




From nnerge@gmail.com Wed Oct 31 20:15:42 2007
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From: "Bruce Butler" <calsch-archive@ietf.org>
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 31 20:33:33 2007
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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:22:41 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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Hi CCAMPers, a revised version of the wavelength switched optical 
networking draft is now available at 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-02.txt
This incorporates most of the comments received from the CCAMP list and 
the authors propose that this become a working group draft in order to 
guide the optical efforts at CCAMP and PCE. This document would be 
informational and would contain problem descriptions and models 
highlightng differences encountered in the wavelength switched case 
relative to TDM or MPLS situations.

In addition we have published two more WSON related drafts:
(a) Information encoding for WSON:  
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-info-00.txt 
where we have specified some initial compact encodings of pertinent 
information used in the RWA process.

(b) Signaling extensions for WSON: 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-00.txt 
where we take a first general crack at defining traffic parameters for 
lightpaths and other useful info to assist in distributed wavelength 
assignment (the WA in RWA). 

Regards

Greg B.

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237






From em.benjamin_zt@bms.com Wed Oct 31 22:07:33 2007
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From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt 
Message-Id: <E1InJ1q-0004Zl-23@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:15:02 -0400

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Networks
	Author(s)	: T. Nadeau, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-00.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 2007-10-31
	
   This document describes requirements for operations and management
   (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
   networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS.


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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:44:02 +0000
Reply-To: <sunwq@sjtu.edu.cn>
From: "Weiqiang Sun" <sunwq@sjtu.edu.cn>
To: "'Adrian Farrel'" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "'Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS'" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: RE: Vancouver agenda
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:41:11 +0800
Organization: Shanghai Jiao Tong University
Message-ID: <000601c81b67$7faee950$7f0cbbf0$@edu.cn>
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Hi Adrian and Deborah,

We are coming up with a newer version of LSP dynamical provisioning
performance metrics draft (previously draft-xie-ccamp-lsp-dppm-01.txt).
It received quite a few discussion in the off list discussion group. 

The authors hope that a slot being allocated so that we can hear more
comments from the WG folks. 
We would also like to hear the WG's interest in progressing this toward a WG
document.

Thanks,
Weiqiang Sun

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:10 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS
Subject: Vancouver agenda

Hi,

We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat

appears to have allocated three!).

So we need to start building our agenda.

We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
- The progress with GELS
- Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
   from outside ASes
   See
   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
      in BGP

What else would you like to see on the agenda?

Cheers,
Adrian (per pro Deborah) 








Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:37:57 +0000
Message-ID: <4727B1DB.30805@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:36:11 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: Re: Vancouver agenda
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Hi Adrian, there seems to be some interest in the wavelength switched 
optical stuff. There should be:
(a) framework discussion/draft (we've updated and would like this to be 
a working group draft)
(b) label format (I was hoping Otani et. al. would be updating their draft)
(c) signaling discussions (I've just submitted a draft and last time 
Xu/King had a draft)
(d) information for RWA (I'll be submitting this shortly, its 
independent of how we distribute it, e.g., an IGP or some other method)

Hence this would make a moderately "chunky" session or sub-session.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the 
> Secretariat appears to have allocated three!).
>
> So we need to start building our agenda.
>
> We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
> - The progress with GELS
> - Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
>   from outside ASes
>   See
>   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
>   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
>   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
>      in BGP
>
> What else would you like to see on the agenda?
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian (per pro Deborah)
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:10:51 +0000
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: Vancouver agenda
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:09:36 -0000
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Hi,

We have again requested two meetings for Vancouver (although the Secretariat 
appears to have allocated three!).

So we need to start building our agenda.

We want to have some chunky sessions to discuss
- The progress with GELS
- Issues and developments for distribution of TE information
   from outside ASes
   See
   -  Mach's I-Ds for inter-AS TE links
   - Yakov/Don's I-D for BGP-TE
   - JP's (expired?) proposal for CE-PE TE link advertisement
      in BGP

What else would you like to see on the agenda?

Cheers,
Adrian (per pro Deborah) 





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Message-Id: <FCB5795F-0110-44D4-82E0-DF49A76A9A38@cisco.com>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:25:07 -0400
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

Sorry for the delay, I had missed that one - in line.

On Oct 16, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a  
>>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or
>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to
>>>>>>>>> convey
>>>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider
>>>>>>>>> Edge) - CE
>>>>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility  
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then
>>>>>>>>> be used
>>>>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering  
>>>>>>>>> Label
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>>>>>> application ... sounds
>>>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE
>>>>>>>> to CE
>>>>>>>> TE LSP
>>>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much
>>>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE  
>>>>>>> attribute, as
>>>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the  
>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link  
>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>>>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>>>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this  
>>>>> info
>>>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP
>>>> consensus
>>>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to
>>>> simply reuse
>>>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
>>>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
>>>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
>>>> ones. Makes sense ?
>>>
>>> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
>>> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
>>> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
>>> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
>>> first draft.
>>
>> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
>> applications.
>
> As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10):
>
>    If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>    what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>    draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
>    to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

Sure my concern is basically to see an ID redefining all TE related  
attributes
rather than carrying in a new BGP attributes all TLVs that have been  
defined
already for IGPs ?

>
>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
>>> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
>>> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.
>>
>> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE
>> TLVs.
>>
>> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such  
>> "external"
>> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a  
>> new BGP
>> attribute
>
> In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can
> not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update
> message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP
> *requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we
> defined a new BGP TE attribute).
>
> Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE
> TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute".
>
>>         that will not have the ability to support other
>> applications.
>> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link
>> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE.
>
> See my first comment above.
>
>> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and
>> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different
>> approach for that generic draft.
>
> So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11
> to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft.

No no ... I'm proposing to define a BGP attribute carrying the IGP TE  
TLV.

>
>>> That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two  
>>> IDs.
>>>
>>> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
>>> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-
>>> attribute,
>>> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
>>> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
>>> from your draft:
>>>
>>>    This document also defines a new attribute called the
>>>    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in  
>>> [RFC3784].
>>>    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
>>>    revision of this document.
>>>
>>> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
>>> are defined in rfc4203.
>>
>> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.
>>
>>> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
>>> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
>>> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
>>> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
>>> in rfc4203).
>>
>> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
>> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
>> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
>> specified for IGP TE.
>
> See my comments above.
>
> With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs
> to carry more information than what is currently defined in
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus
> of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added,
> and then we'll add it to the document.

Well this is the approach of (potentially) redefining everything as  
opposed to
carrying the IGP TE TLV in that new BGP attribute ?

Cheers.

JP.

>
> Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt 
Message-Id: <E1Ima4j-00062f-GI@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:15:01 -0400

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This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks (MRN/MLN)
	Author(s)	: K. Shiomoto, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-06.txt
	Pages		: 27
	Date		: 2007-10-29
	
Most of the initial efforts to utilize Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) 
     have been related to environments hosting devices with a single 
     switching capability. The complexity raised by the control of such 
     data planes is similar to that seen in classical IP/MPLS networks. 
     By extending MPLS to support multiple switching technologies, GMPLS 
     provides a comprehensive framework for the control of a multi-
     layered network of either a single switching technology or multiple 
     switching technologies.

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:19:32 +0000
Message-ID: <048e01c817e3$7b902b40$37013b0a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>, <yakov@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:18:22 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yakov,

Currently the level of discussion on the list does not warrant this being 
polled for adoption.

Further, I am concerned that the failure to limit the applicability of the 
draft is a direct proposal to support flooding of TE information from one AS 
to another. Whether this would result in stressing BGP or attempting TE 
aggregation, I don't know, but it is my understanding that such an 
application would be contrary to decisions already taken by the CCAMP 
working group about how to perform inter-domain TE, and would be a severe 
risk to the stability of the Internet.

I propose that we put this topic on the CCAMP agenda for Vancouver to see 
whether we can scope the problem:
- Are we limiting ourselves to the distribution of CE-PE TE information?
- What about PE-PE TE information?
- Do we need to distribute the information outside the AS?

You said in an earlier email that you do not want to constrain the future. 
That is a noble statement, but you probably also want to protect the 
Internet against abuse of protocol extensions that you design. So we just 
need to get the scoping right.

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
<dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
<dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
document


> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below).
> Please let us know the status of our request.
>
> Yakov.
> ------- Forwarded Message
>
> Date:    Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700
> From:    Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
> To:      "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
> "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> cc:      "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" 
> <dwfedyk@nortel.
>   com>,
> yakov@juniper.net
> Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
> document
>
> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> in the latest version.
>
> Yakov.
>
>
> ------- End of Forwarded Message
>
> 






Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:28:11 +0000
Message-Id: <200710261425.l9QEPBn63653@magenta.juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>, yakov@juniper.net
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <65646.1193408711.1@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:25:11 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

Deborah and Adrian,

Almost 4 weeks ago Don, Hamid, and myself asked to accept
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document (see below).
Please let us know the status of our request.

Yakov.
------- Forwarded Message

Date:    Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700
From:    Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
To:      "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
	 "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc:      "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.
	  com>,
	 yakov@juniper.net
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document

Deborah and Adrian,

On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
in the latest version.

Yakov.


------- End of Forwarded Message




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:38:32 +0000
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:35:45 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: About extensions to OSPF in support of inter-AS TE
To: CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-id: <200710251035449069557@huawei.com>
Organization: Huawei
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi CCAMPers,

After discussion on the OSPF list and considering how we include inter-AS TE function in OSPFv3, we propose to change the mechanism for OSPFv2 to use a new and separate opaque LSA for inter-AS TE links(Main purpose is to make sure that the OSPFv2 and v3 implementations are samilar). Before we change the draft, we want to give you an opportunity to discuss this if you disagree.

You can find the draft by:http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-extension-01.txt



Best regards,   
Mach Chen





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:47:03 +0000
Message-ID: <000301c814e4$23b01360$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Working Group Last Call - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:45:31 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

This email begins a two week last call on 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recovery-analysis-02.txt

Please send your comments to the list by 20.00 GMT on Monday 5th November.

As I am a co-author, Deborah will arbitrate in all disputes.

Thanks,
Adrian 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:16:33 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
From: IESG Secretary <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Subject: WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG  (ccamp) 
Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org
Message-Id: <E1Ik1nq-0001Ho-0z@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:15:02 -0400

A modified charter has been submitted for the Common Control and 
Measurement Plane (ccamp) working group in the Routing Area of the
IETF. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The modified
charter is provided below for informational purposes only. Please send
your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 29.

+++

Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp)
============================================

Current Status: Active Working Group

Chair(s):
* Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> 
* Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>

Routing Area Director(s):
* Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net> 
* David Ward <dward@cisco.com> 

Routing Area Advisor:
* Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>

Technical Advisor(s):
* Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>  

Mailing Lists:
General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org
In Body: subscribe ccamp
Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp

Description of Working Group:

Organizational Overview

The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a 

common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
physical 

path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service
providers 

(ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, 

Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation 

tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In
this 

context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of
attributes 

relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths.

CCAMP WG work scope includes:

- Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters
(measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are
required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in
conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to
ensure overall usefulness.

- Definition of protocol(s) and extensions to them required for
link and path attribute measurement. Link Management Protocol (LMP)
is included here.

- Functional specification of extensions for routing (OSPF, ISIS) and
signalling (RSVP-TE) required for path establishment. Protocol
formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done
jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols.

- Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and
properties of an established path (tunnel tracing).

- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the
protocols and extensions specified within the WG.



- Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol 

extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed Ethernet 

data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already approved by an 

SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data plane. It is expected that


the primary SDO in this case is the IEEE. Note that the specification 

or modification of Ethernet data planes is out of scope. 


CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:

- Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a
measurement protocol can be distributed in existing routing
protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP defines the generic
description of the properties and how they are distributed in OSPF.
The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in
the ISIS WG.

- Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path
and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a
domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region
of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the
PCE and MPLS WGs.

- Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path
protection. Specify signalling mechanisms for path protection,
diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer
path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the
defined signalling, routing, and measurement protocols, either
separately or in combination.

- Identify which requirements for signaling and routing for ASON are
not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these,
define mechanisms to address these requirements.

- Document issues and strategies for the migration of MPLS-based
deployments to GMPLS. Based on the outcome, identify protocol
machinery that implementations may have to change to ease the
migration from MPLS to GMPLS.

In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The
WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1.

Goals and Milestones:

Done



Post strawman WG goals and charter 

Done



Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions for
signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control solutions to be
considered are the existing GMPLS drafts. 

Done



Build appropriate design teams 

Done



Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common control plane
protocol 

Done



Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol 

Done



Submit LMP MIB to IESG 

Done



Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG 

Done



Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG 

Done



Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG 

Done



Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol 

Done



Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and routing 

Done



Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG 

Done



Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG consideration of
more detailed deliverables and determination of usefulness of
continuation of WG 

Done



First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
OSPF 

Done



First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership 

Done



Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review 

Done



Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
OSPF 

Done



First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies 

Done



First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
Networks 

Done



First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN 

Done



First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions 

Done



Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for IESG review


Done



Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN 

Done



First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module 

Done



Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for IESG review


Done



First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues
for disjoint and protected paths 

Done



Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and OSPF for
IESG review 

Done



Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review 

Done



First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions 

Done



Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements 

Done



Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership for IESG
review 

Nov 2007



First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to cover RSVP-TE
signaling extensions 

Done



Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D for IESG
review 

Oct 2007



Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain issues for
disjoint and protected paths for IESG review 

Done



Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG review 

Jan 2008



Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review 

Oct 2007



Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks I-D for
IESG review 

Done



Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and solutions I-D for IESG
review 

Oct 2007



Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for IESG review 

Dec 2007



Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG review 

Feb 2008



Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review 

Mar 2008



Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review 

Apr 2008



Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for MIB doctor and
IESG review 

Oct 2007

Sep 2008



Dec 2008



First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and explicitly-routed
Ethernet networks

Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled and
explicitly-routed

Ethernet networks for IESG review 

Recharter or close Working Group 

Internet-Drafts:

Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS
(GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-
te-07.txt> (55171 bytes)
Label Switched Path Stitching with Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching Traffic Engineering (GMPLS TE)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching-06.t
xt> (47682 bytes)
A Per-domain path computation method for establishing Inter-domain
Traffic Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-pa
th-comp-05.txt> (48843 bytes)
IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering
Node Capabilities
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt
> (26263 bytes)
Requirements for GMPLS-based multi-region and multi-layer networks
(MRN/MLN)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.
txt> (61451 bytes)
Evaluation of existing GMPLS Protocols against Multi Layer and Multi
Region Networks (MLN/MRN)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.
txt> (36366 bytes)
Framework for MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwo
rk-fmwk-04.txt> (44736 bytes)
Procedures for Dynamically Signaled Hierarchical Label Switched Paths
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-hierarchy-bis-
02.txt> (49105 bytes)
MEF Ethernet Traffic Parameters
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-p
arameters-02.txt> (23256 bytes)
Graceful Shutdown in MPLS and Generalized MPLS Traffic Engineering
Networks
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-graceful-shut
down-04.txt> (26060 bytes)
Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the Link Capacity Adjustment
Scheme (LCAS) with Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03
txt> (35730 bytes)
Traffic Engineering Database Management Information Base in support of
GMPLS
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-02.t
xt> (49569 bytes)
Requirements for the Conversion Between Permanent Connections and
Switched Connections in a Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching
(GMPLS) Network
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-pc-and-sc-reqs-01.
txt> (25420 bytes)
Interworking Requirements to Support operation of MPLS-TE over GMPLS
Networks
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-gmpls-interwo
rk-reqts-02.txt> (29760 bytes)
Analysis of Inter-domain Label Switched Path (LSP) Recovery
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-recov
ery-analysis-02.txt> (57455 bytes)
OSPF Traffic Engineering (OSPF-TE) Extensions in Support of Inter-AS
Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
Traffic Engineering
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-interas-te-ex
tension-01.txt> (28776 bytes)
Description of the RSVP-TE Graceful Restart Procedures
<http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.
txt> (33723 bytes)

Request For Comments:

Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Functional
Description (RFC 3471) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3471.txt> (72105
bytes) updated by RFC 4201,RFC 4328,RFC 4872
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling
Constraint-based Routed Label Distribution Protocol (CR-LDP) Extensions
(RFC 3472) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3472.txt> (49006 bytes) updated
by RFC 3468,RFC 4201
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Signaling Resource
ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Extensions (RFC 3473)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3473.txt> (91808 bytes) updated by RFC
4003,RFC 4201,RFC 4420,RFC 4783,RFC 4873,RFC 4874,RFC 4974,RFC 5063
Tracing Requirements for Generic Tunnels (RFC 3609)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3609.txt> (17859 bytes) 
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching Extensions for SONET and SDH
Control (RFC 3946) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3946.txt> (52205 bytes)
obsoleted by RFC 4606
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching Architecture (RFC 3945)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3945.txt> (166700 bytes) 
GMPLS Signaling Procedure For Egress Control (RFC 4003)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4003.txt> (10306 bytes) updates RFC 3473
Requirements for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Signaling Usage and Extensions
for Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4139)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4139.txt> (36660 bytes) 
Generalize Multiprotocol Label Switching(GMPLS) User-Network Interface
(UNI): Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE)
Support for the Overlay Model (RFC 4208)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4208.txt> (28693 bytes) 
Synchronous Optical Network (SONET)/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH)
Encoding for Link Management Protocol (LMP) Test Messages (RFC 4207)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4207.txt> (29390 bytes) 
Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC 4204)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4204.txt> (186515 bytes) 
OSPF Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching
(RFC 4203) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4203.txt> (23130 bytes) updates
RFC 3630
Routing Extensions in Support of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4202) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4202.txt>
(57333 bytes) 
Link Management Protocol (LMP) for Dense Wavelength Division
Multiplexing (DWDM) Optical Line Systems (RFC 4209)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4209.txt> (33906 bytes) 
Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
Routing for the Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) (RFC 4258)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4258.txt> (48558 bytes) 
Framework for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based
Control of Synchronous Digital Hierarchy/Synchronous Optical Networking
(SDH/SONET) Networks (RFC 4257) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4257.txt>
(86974 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Extensions
for G.709 Optical Transport Networks Control (RFC 4328)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4328.txt> (52145 bytes) updates RFC 3471
Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC
4327) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4327.txt> (150509 bytes) obsoleted by
RFC 4631
A Transport Network View of the Link Management Protocol (LMP) (RFC
4394) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4394.txt> (40811 bytes) 
A Lexicography for the Interpretation of Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) Terminology within The Context of the ITU-T's
Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON) Architecture (RFC 4397)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4397.txt> (40331 bytes) 
Analysis of Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)-based
Recovery Mechanisms (including Protection and Restoration) (RFC 4428)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4428.txt> (118749 bytes) 
Recovery (Protection and Restoration) Terminology for Generalized
Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) (RFC 4427)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4427.txt> (43842 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery Functional
Specification (RFC 4426) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4426.txt> (55820
bytes) 
Node-ID Based Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Hello: A
Clarification Statement (RFC 4558) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4558.txt>
(14185 bytes) 
Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Extensions for
Synchronous Optical Network (SONET) and Synchronous Digital Hierarchy
(SDH) Control (RFC 4606) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4606.txt> (53492
bytes) obsoletes RFC 3946
Link Management Protocol (LMP) Management Information Base (MIB) (RFC
4631) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4631.txt> (152560 bytes) obsoletes
RFC 4327
Evaluation of Existing Routing Protocols against Automatic Switched
Optical Network (ASON) Routing Requirements (RFC 4652)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4652.txt> (47179 bytes) 
Reoptimization of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) Loosely Routed Label Switch Path (LSP) (RFC 4736)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4736.txt> (28850 bytes) 
A Framework for Inter-Domain Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic
Engineering (RFC 4726) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4726.txt> (53076
bytes) 
GMPLS - Communication of Alarm Information (RFC 4783)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4783.txt> (42068 bytes) updates RFC 3473
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS)Label Switching Router
(LSR) Management Information Base (RFC 4803)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4803.txt> (79925 bytes) 
Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering
Management Information Base (RFC 4802)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4802.txt> (118164 bytes) 
Definitions of Textual Conventions for Generalized Multiprotocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) Management (RFC 4801)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4801.txt> (16347 bytes) 
Exclude Routes - Extension to Resource ReserVation Protocol-Traffic
Engineering (RSVP-TE) (RFC 4874) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4874.txt>
(59569 bytes) updates RFC 3473,RFC 3209
RSVP-TE Extensions in support of End-to-End Generalized Multi-Protocol
Label Switching (GMPLS) Recovery (RFC 4872)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4872.txt> (111882 bytes) updates RFC 3471/
updated by RFC 4873
GMPLS Segment Recovery (RFC 4873) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4873.txt>
(56859 bytes) updates RFC 4872,RFC 3473
Crankback Signaling Extensions for MPLS and GMPLS RSVP-TE (RFC 4920)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4920.txt> (88679 bytes) 
Routing extensions for discovery of Multiprotocol (MPLS) Label Switch
Router (LSR) Traffic Engineering (TE) mesh membership (RFC 4972)
<http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4972.txt> (32044 bytes) 
Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) RSVP-TE Signaling Extensions in support of
Calls (RFC 4974) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4974.txt> (72000 bytes)
updates RFC 3473
Use of Addresses in Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
Networks (RFC 4990) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4990.txt> (50908 bytes)

Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful
Restart (RFC 5063) <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt> (58542 bytes)
updates RFC 2961,RFC 3473



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:26:03 +0000
Message-ID: <01b201c81495$bdeda590$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada 
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:24:20 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Note well

Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>
To: <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:00 AM
Subject: Internet-Drafts Submission Cutoff Dates for the 70th IETF Meeting 
in Vancouver, BC, Canada


> There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 70th
> IETF Meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada:
>
> November 12th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday,
> November 12th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT). As always, all initial 
> submissions with a
> filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the
> appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced.  The
> Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Monday,
> November 5th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT).
>
> November  (14:00 UTC/GMT): Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and 
> higher)
> Internet-Draft Submissions
>
> All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted
> by Monday, November 19th at 9:00 AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT).
>
> Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective
> cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts
> directory or announced until on or after Monday, December 3rd at 9:00
> AM ET (14:00 UTC/GMT), when Internet-Draft posting resumes.  Please do not 
> wait until
> the last minute to submit.
>
> The Secretariat encourages you to submit your Internet-Drafts via the 
> Internet-Draft
> Submission Tool (IDST) https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/upload.cgi. If 
> you are unable to do
> so, then you may still submit your Internet-Drafts manually by sending 
> them to internet-
> drafts@ietf.org.  If you are submitting a version -00 WG draft that 
> replaces non-WG draft,
> then you must submit it manually as the current IDST cannot handle 
> replacements.  Please be
> sure to state that one draft replaces another in the cover note that 
> accompanies your
> submission.  Also, please note that the IDST will not accept drafts 
> submitted after their
> respective cutoff dates.
>
> Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any
> questions or concerns, then please send a message to
> internet-drafts@ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates
> for the 70th IETF Meeting can be found at 
> http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_70.html.
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:00:40 +0000
Message-ID: <011001c81489$b76788f0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:58:24 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Looks like a good positive response with no dissention.

We will adopt.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on 
> the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, 
> and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:59:51 +0000
Message-ID: <47191A4C.6070605@isocore.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:57:48 -0400
From: Matt Tylenda <mtylenda@isocore.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Call for Participation: MPLS2007 International Conference, October 28-31
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MPLS2007 International conference starting on October 28-31 in 
Washington, D.C. is only a few days away!

 

Conference Program is available at: 
http://www.mpls2007.com/program/technical_sessions.htm

 

Conference registration details are available at: 
http://www.mpls2007.com/registration/attendees.htm

 

A public interop demo is also scheduled with the conference - 
http://www.mpls2007.com/program/inter_op.htm

 

We look forward to seeing you at the conference!

 

Regards,

Matt

-- 
Matt Tylenda
mtylenda@isocore.com
ISOCORE





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:42:52 +0000
Message-ID: <47172A0B.4030806@pi.se>
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:40:27 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
Organization: Acreo AB
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Iesg (E-mail)" <iesg@ietf.org>
CC:  mpls@ietf.org, pwe3 <pwe3@ietf.org>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>,  George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>, Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, IAB <iab@iab.org>
Subject: IAB decision on how to prepare for a potential cooperation between IETF and ITU-T on t-mpls
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To the IESG
cc mpls, pwe3 and ccamp working groups


The ownership of what needs to be done to prepare for a situation
where an agreement on cooperation between ITU-T and the IETF on
T-MPLS would be reached does not currently have a clear home in
the IETF, neither are concrete objectives or explicit requirements
well-defined.  The liaison activities that surround this agreement
and proper focus on this work within the IETF are critical, and as
such, the IAB needs to heavily support these activities.

At the IAB meeting October 3 the IAB agreed that the IETF need a
dedicated team that could evaluate "what would need to be
done if the agreement that might come out of the Q12/15
meeting in Stuttgart is progressed".

As a result the IAB decided on a design team approach, the design team
charter will be to come up with a list of tasks need to be done as
a result of the potential agreement and come up with a proposal on how
it should be managed. We believe that some degree of education of people
from the ITU-T side in the Tao of IETF should be planned.

And a reciprocal function would likely be worthwhile as well.

We see this tasked team as a forerunner to the joint team we are about
to set up together with the ITU-T.

Things I see that need to be clarified are:

- which decisions taken by IETF working groups needs to be revisited;
  e.g., only LDP v. RSVP-TE for PWE3?
- where are the incompatibilities between IETF specifications and
  the ITU-T documents
- what type of requirement organization do we need, should we try
  to channel it through existing working groups or start a new
- in what format could we accept requirements from ITU-T
- etc (please add to the list)

It is our take that this design team should include people that have
been actively involved in sorting out the T-MPLS issues up to
now, e.g.:

- someone from the Internet Area
- someone from the Routing Area
- someone from the pwe3 wg
- someone from the mpls wg
- our mpls liaison to the ITU-T
- someone from the IAB
- someone from the IESG

This does not automatically add up to 7 or more people, since we
have certain possible overlap; we should also take care in not
having a to strong representation from one single company.

We want to appoint the design team as soon as possible, and we
will approach people that matches the list above, and of course
we like the recipients of this mail to suggest names.


On behalf of the Internet Architecture Board (IAB)

Loa Andersson

-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                           loa@pi.se

This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:44:53 +0000
Message-ID: <006501c810bb$36747630$1e08a8c0@c9c8b44f6e334f0>
From: "blithe" <blithe@sjtu.edu.cn>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: any suggestion or commets for this I-D?
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:42:43 +0800
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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:14:09 +0000
To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org
Subject:  RFC 5063 on Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart
From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Message-Id: <20071017010653.8ECAAE7CF5@bosco.isi.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:06:53 -0700 (PDT)

A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 5063

        Title:      Extensions to GMPLS Resource Reservation 
                    Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart 
        Author:     A. Satyanarayana, Ed.,
                    R. Rahman, Ed.
        Status:     Standards Track
        Date:       October 2007
        Mailbox:    asatyana@cisco.com, 
                    rrahman@cisco.com
        Pages:      24
        Characters: 58542
        Updates:    RFC2961, RFC3473
        See-Also:   

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5063.txt

This document describes extensions to the Resource Reservation
Protocol (RSVP) Graceful Restart mechanisms defined in RFC 3473.  The
extensions enable the recovery of RSVP signaling state based on the
Path message last sent by the node being restarted.

Previously defined Graceful Restart mechanisms, also called recovery
from nodal faults, permit recovery of signaling state from adjacent
nodes when the data plane has retained the associated forwarding
state across a restart.  Those mechanisms do not fully support
signaling state recovery on ingress nodes or recovery of all RSVP
objects.

The extensions defined in this document build on the RSVP Hello
extensions defined in RFC 3209, and extensions for state recovery on
nodal faults defined in RFC 3473.  Using these extensions, the
restarting node can recover all previously transmitted Path state,
including the Explicit Route Object and the downstream (outgoing)
interface identifiers.  The extensions can also be used to recover
signaling state after the restart of an ingress node.

These extensions are not used to create or restore data plane state.

The extensions optionally support the use of Summary Refresh, defined
in RFC 2961, to reduce the number of messages exchanged during the
Recovery Phase when the restarting node has recovered signaling state
locally for one or more Label Switched Paths (LSPs).  [STANDARDS TRACK]

This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane
Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
 Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and
 status of this protocol.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list.
Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list
should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG.  Requests to be
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be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.

Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body 

help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example:

        To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG
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        help: ways_to_get_rfcs

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
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specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.

Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
Authors, for further information.


The RFC Editor Team
USC/Information Sciences Institute

...





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:03:58 +0000
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.5.060620
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:52:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
From: Monique Morrow <mmorrow@cisco.com>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-ID: <C33A485D.51F16%mmorrow@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Thread-Index: AcgQHUgchtxN0HwQEdy3mgAX8tV3kA==
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Also in favor

/monique


On 10/16/07 4:52 AM, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com> wrote:

> in favor.
> 
> JP.
> 
> On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-
>> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough
>> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft,
>> we decided we should play it very safe.
>> 
>> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt,
>> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the
>> list, and some of our own concerns.
>> 
>> So, second time of asking...
>> 
>> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>> 
>> 
>> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:48:45 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <5F882DB6-F95F-4966-BBEF-E4F159CFFE86@ece.drexel.edu>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Jaudelice Cavalcante de Oliveira <jau@cbis.ece.drexel.edu>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:46:15 -0400
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>

On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt  
> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Yes!

Jau.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:59:24 +0000
Message-Id: <200710161355.l9GDttn65904@magenta.juniper.net>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <81945.1192542955.1@juniper.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:55:55 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

JP,

> >>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the  
> >>>>>>>>> requirements
> >>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or  
> >>>>>>> one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to  
> >>>>>>> convey
> >>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider  
> >>>>>>> Edge) - CE
> >>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then  
> >>>>>>> be used
> >>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >>>>>> application ... sounds
> >>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE  
> >>>>>> to CE
> >>>>>> TE LSP
> >>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much  
> >>>>>> similar to
> >>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> >>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> >>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute  
> >>>> for
> >>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
> >>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
> >>>
> >>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> >>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> >>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> >>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
> >>>
> >>
> >> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
> >> consensus
> >> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to  
> >> simply reuse
> >> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
> >> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
> >> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
> >> ones. Makes sense ?
> >
> > No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
> > separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
> > may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
> > *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
> > first draft.
> 
> Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
> applications.

As I said before (in my e-mail on Oct 10):

   If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
   what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
   draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
   to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
> > BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
> > it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.
> 
> With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE  
> TLVs.
> 
> We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external"
> links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP
> attribute 

In BGP all the information is carried as BGP *attributes* - one can
not take IGP TE TLVs and stuff then "as is" into a BGP Update
message. Which means that carrying any new information in BGP
*requires* to define a new BGP attribute (that is precisely why we
defined a new BGP TE attribute).

Hopefully that answer your question of "why not reusing the IGP TE
TLVs instead of defining a new BGP attribute".

>         that will not have the ability to support other  
> applications. 
> In particular, for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link
> characteristics, as defined in IGP TE.

See my first comment above.

> The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and  
> other applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different  
> approach for that generic draft.

So, you withdraw the suggestion you made in your e-mail on Oct 11
to merge draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute and your draft.
  
> > That is precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.
> >
> > Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
> > that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- 
> > attribute,
> > carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
> > to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
> > from your draft:
> >
> >    This document also defines a new attribute called the
> >    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784].
> >    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
> >    revision of this document.
> >
> > Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
> > are defined in rfc4203.
> 
> Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.
> 
> > Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
> > BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
> > should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
> > as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
> > in rfc4203).
> 
> Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
> (TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
> hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
> specified for IGP TE.

See my comments above.

With all this in mind let me suggest that if you think BGP needs
to carry more information than what is currently defined in
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, then after CCAMP WG accepts
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute as a CCAMP WG document you get consensus
of the CCAMP WG that this information is indeed has to be added,
and then we'll add it to the document.

Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:02:25 +0200
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

On Oct 15, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the  
>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or  
>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to  
>>>>>>> convey
>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider  
>>>>>>> Edge) - CE
>>>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then  
>>>>>>> be used
>>>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>>>> application ... sounds
>>>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE  
>>>>>> to CE
>>>>>> TE LSP
>>>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much  
>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
>>>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
>>>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>>>
>>>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute  
>>>> for
>>>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
>>>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>>>
>>> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
>>> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
>>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
>>> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>>>
>>
>> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
>> consensus
>> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to  
>> simply reuse
>> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are
>> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since
>> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future
>> ones. Makes sense ?
>
> No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
> separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
> may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
> *use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
> first draft.

Unfortunately, as defined, it is not generic enough to support other
applications.

>
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
> BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
> it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute.

With the major difference being that we proposed to reuse the IGP TE  
TLVs.

We do agree on using BGP to carry TE related data such such "external"
links but why not reusing the IGP TE TLVs instead of defining a new BGP
attribute that will not have the ability to support other  
applications. In particular,
for the CE to CE case, we'll need all the TE link characteristics, as  
defined in
IGP TE.

The approach of having a generic ID defining the protocol details and  
other
applicability statement is fine but I'd rather have a different  
approach for that
generic draft.

> That is
> precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.
>
> Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
> that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te- 
> attribute,
> carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
> to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
> from your draft:
>
>    This document also defines a new attribute called the
>    TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in  
> [RFC3784].
>    The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
>    revision of this document.
>
> Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
> are defined in rfc4203.
>

Of course, the same approach can be taken for GMPLS.

> Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
> BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
> should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
> as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
> in rfc4203).
>

Absolutely, but it does not have the appropriate MPLS TE attributes,
(TE metrics, colors, but also other TLVs defined in other RFCs)
hence my proposal to reuse the MPLS and GMPLS TE extensions
specified for IGP TE.

Thanks.

JP.

> Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:59:44 +0000
Message-ID: <4714A782.3000107@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:58:58 -0400
From: Reshad Rahman <rrahman@cisco.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
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In favour.

Regards,
Reshad.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are 
> authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the 
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should 
> be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>



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Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:52:36 +0200
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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in favor.

JP.

On Oct 13, 2007, at 3:16 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam- 
> requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't get thorough  
> consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the draft,  
> we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt,  
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the  
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt  
> should be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:46:20 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
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Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:43:27 +0200
Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604F0EB49@ftrdmel2>
Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Thread-Index: AcgNnJ7CZsT+n0Q2RL2AslLIifS4cwCK0bkA
From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" <julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

Hi Adrian.

Yes, I do think it should be adopted.

Julien


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel

Hi,

When we asked about adopting=20
draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we =
didn't=20
get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the=20
draft, we decided we should play it very safe.

The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, =
attempts=20
to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some =
of=20
our own concerns.

So, second time of asking...

Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20
adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Thanks,
Adrian








Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:07:11 +0000
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:05:12 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Message-id: <011901c80f90$9a9eba20$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Yes, it should be adopted as a CCAMP WG draft.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
> 
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
> get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
> draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> 
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
> to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
> our own concerns.
> 
> So, second time of asking...
> 
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:27:01 +0000
Message-ID: <4713F6C7.2050007@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:24:55 -0400
From: Danny Prairie <dprairie@cisco.com>
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
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In favor.

Regards,

Danny

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we 
> didn't get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are 
> authors on the draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
>
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, 
> attempts to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the 
> list, and some of our own concerns.
>
> So, second time of asking...
>
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should 
> be adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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Subject: RE: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:34 -0400
Message-ID: <BABC859E6D0B9A4D8448CC7F41CD2B07054B3200@xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Thread-Index: AcgPT4OaGR6s+yYSTQ6JWYBHyyU9IQAA6Q0w
From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM
> Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
>=20
>=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > When we asked about adopting=20
> > draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG=20
> document we didn't=20
> > get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are=20
> authors on the=20
> > draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> >=20
> > The new revision,=20
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts=20
> > to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the=20
> list, and some of=20
> > our own concerns.
> >=20
> > So, second time of asking...
> >=20
> > Do you think=20
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be=20
> > adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> >=20

In Favor,=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar=20

> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:19:02 +0000
Message-ID: <04e201c80f45$d1eba2e0$0601a8c0@pc6>
Reply-To: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
From: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:58:46 +0200
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Yes, adopt.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements


> Hi,
> 
> When we asked about adopting 
> draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
> get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
> draft, we decided we should play it very safe.
> 
> The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
> to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
> our own concerns.
> 
> So, second time of asking...
> 
> Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
> adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:02:19 +0000
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Protocol Action: 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label  Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic  Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions' to Proposed Standard 
Message-Id: <E1IhSN3-00083A-WF@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:00:45 -0400

The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'Inter domain Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS 
   (GMPLS) Traffic Engineering - RSVP-TE extensions '
   <draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane 
Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te-07.txt

Technical Summary
 
  This document describes procedures and protocol extensions for the
  use of Resource ReserVation Protocol Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE)
  signaling in Multiprotocol Label Switching Traffic Engineering
  (MPLS-TE) packet networks and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) packet and
  non-packet networks to support the establishment and maintenance of
  Label Switched Paths that cross domain boundaries.
 
Working Group Summary
 
  no dissent reported. 
 
Protocol Quality
 
  Ross Callon has reviewed the spec for the IESG. 

Note to RFC Editor
 
  This document contains a normative reference to 
  draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-stitching, which should be progressed with this 
  one. (they were both put on the IESG agenda at the same time). 

  Arthi Ayyangar's affiliation should be updated to be:

    Arthi Ayyangar
    Juniper Networks
    1194 N Mathilda Avenue 
    Sunnyvale, CA  94089  
    email: arthi@juniper.net




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:24:54 +0000
Message-Id: <200710151422.l9FEM3n42188@magenta.juniper.net>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
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Content-ID: <75604.1192458123.1@juniper.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:22:03 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

JP,

> >>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
> >>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
> >>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
> >>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >>>> application ... sounds
> >>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
> >>>> TE LSP
> >>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
> >>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >>>
> >>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> >>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> >>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> >>
> >> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for
> >> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
> >> already defined for the IGPs ?
> >
> > If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> > what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> > to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
> >
> 
> On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP consensus
> (on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply reuse
> the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are  
> effectively merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since 
> a single draft would then serve both applications and may be future 
> ones. Makes sense ?

No, it does *not* make sense, and here is why. There should be a
separate draft that just defines the BGP TE attribute. Then there
may be one or more other drafts that describe applications that
*use* the BGP TE attribute. Such drafts would just point to the
first draft.

draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute is the former - it just defines the
BGP TE attribute. draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02 is the latter  -
it defines an application that uses the BGP TE attribute. That is
precisely why it does not make any sense to merge the two IDs.

Yet another reason why merging the two IDs does not make sense is
that the BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute,
carries the *GMPLS* TE information, while in your draft you propose
to carry just *MPLS* TE, but *not* GMPLS TE information. Quoting
from your draft:

   This document also defines a new attribute called the
   TE attribute which carries the set of sub-TLVs defined in [RFC3784].
   The format of the BGP TE attribute will be defined in a further
   revision of this document.

Note that rfc3784 is about *MPLS* TE extensions. GMPLS TE extensions
are defined in rfc4203.

Wrt reusing the IGP-TE TLVs, if you look at what is carried in the
BGP TE attribute, as specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, you
should be able to notice that is has precisely the same encoding
as the Interface Switching Capability Descriptor sub-TLV (as defined
in rfc4203). 

Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:48:28 +0000
Message-ID: <004b01c80f31$9f1cd460$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:34:31 +0100
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Thanks Andy,

I'll modify the wording of the liaison accordingly.

Wrt all the I-Ds, but especially the BFD work, I know you know that the IETF 
is contribution driven. If we all sit back and wait for the I-Ds to become 
RFCs, nothing will happen. So hopefully anyone waiting for something to 
complete will pitch in and help resolve any open issues.

But also, if the MFA is waiting for some specific work and is unsure of the 
status, a liaison will surely clarify the situation. And a liaison that 
makes a specific request for speed in a particular area may also get some 
attention.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison


> Adrian,
>
> Thanks for your comments so far.  Regarding the references to drafts,
> those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be
> reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon.  If they get held up,
> we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft
> (and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and
> whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the
> work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later
> revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting.
>
> This issue is a particular sore spot.  I'm very mystified in
> particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs.  Everyone is
> implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in
> is affecting work both in the IETF and outside.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
> On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The MFA sent us 
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt
>> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS
>> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.
>>
>> We were requested to respond by 18th October.
>>
>> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, 
>> so
>> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.
>>
>> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the 
>> following
>> as a starting-point for a response liaison.
>>
>> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in 
>> time
>> for me to send the liaison on October 15th.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>> ===
>> Dear David and Rao,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As
>> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also
>> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is
>> understandably low.
>>
>> We do have the following observations for your consideration.
>>
>> 1. References.
>>
>> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our
>> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
>> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in 
>> this
>> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this
>> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final
>> ballot.
>> The following list of references falls into this category:
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
>> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-base
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
>> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
>> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
>> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
>> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib
>>
>> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI
>>
>> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in 
>> particular
>> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI
>> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of
>> support.
>>
>> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification,
>> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in
>> section 5 does not reference RFC3473.
>>
>> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also
>> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.
>>
>> 3. Broken Reference
>>
>> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not 
>> the
>> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or
>> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
>> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:29:03 +0000
Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071014055302.070531c0@mailsv4.y.ecl.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:30:14 +0900
To: "'Adrian Farrel'" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
From: Wataru Imajuku <imajuku.wataru@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
Cc: "'Tomohiro Otani'" <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "'K. Miyazaki'" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
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Hi, Tomo and Adrian

 As I commented before in this mailing list, this draft is useful.
 In my understanding, one of merit of Lambda label other than that Young pointed out 
is the elimination of some manual configuration of TE-Link attributes which were required in current specification for WDM links, specifically when handling "colorless" fibers between the add/drop port of ROADM/OXCs and single tunable laser in its client node.
 In this case, Lambda label well simplifies TE-Link configuration for the fibers which can possibly transmit optical signal in many wavelengths while only one signal channel is actually transmitted.

 Regarding to the question "a new C-Type for the Generalized Label Object?" which Adrian pointed out, current my understanding is as follows,

A) If we do not enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, and 
 1)  If we employ current C-type, nodes at termination of the TE-links should pre-negotiate each other whether the TE-Link is "Lambda" Label or not.
 2)  If we define new C-type, nodes can understand whether remote node identify the TE-link as is 
  "Lambda Label" link without pre-negotiation. We can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above.
  But, requires new C-types (i.e. new extension)

B) If we do enforce "Lambda Labels" for all LSC nodes, 
 we can pursuit the merit of Lambda Label mentioned above without new C-type.
 Also, this helps to eliminate new burden for service providers taking care whether 
"Lambda Label" link or not for each TE-link. 
 But, this choice brings large impact on NEs which already developed.

 I can not speak which one is better selection at this moment, but how far pursuit 
the merit of "Lambda Label" to simplify the configuration seem one of important view point to determine solution.

Best Regards
Wataru


At 06:58 07/10/09, Young Lee wrote:
>Hi, 
>
>I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting
>an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength
>switched optical network (WSON).  
>
>A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid
>(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals
>with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as
>a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be
>agreed upon across the network entities. 
>
>The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It
>should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. 
>
>Regards, 
>
>Young 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
>Of Adrian Farrel
>Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM
>To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
>Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)
>Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>
>Hi,
>
>I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>
>Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always
>
>possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>
>Here are some nits and issues in the current draft.
>
>===
>Abstract
>You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract
>===
>Abstract
>d/ and getting significant/
>===
>Abstract
>"new generation"
>Do you mean "next generation" or "new"?
>===
>Abstract
>s/proposes/defines/
>===
>Section 3
>s/vendors?  network is/vendors'  networks are/
>===
>Section 3
>  "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned
>   between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering
>   wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be
>   accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints."
>I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph!
>===
>Figure 2
>The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is 
>confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown 
>in figure 1.
>===
>Section 4
>I think you need to be careful here.
>These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language.
>Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is 
>interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in 
>draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable
>
>concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you 
>restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let 
>future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling.
>===
>Section 5.2
>It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the
>
>CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of 
>decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to 
>the CS field.
>Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems 
>to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so 
>improbable.
>So, how about...
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>===
>Section 5.3
>To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would 
>suggest the following for CWDM.
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |     Reserved        |              Lambda               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>===
>Section 6.1
>I think some of the progression here is faulty.
>We have:
>  "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that
>   is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end
>   scope.
>
>   The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has
>   significance only between two neighbors."
>It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but 
>that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. 
>Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop.
>
>I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D,
>
>and could be dropped without any problem.
>The two things you do need in this section are:
>1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>   Label can be used.
>2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>   Generalized Label Object?
>===
>Section 6.2
>As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>availability is best removed from this I-D.
>===
>Section 7
>You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and
>
>external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you 
>should mention the fact.
>===
>Section 10
>I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>===
>
>Cheers,
>Adrian 

-------------------------------------
Wataru Imajuku, Ph.D.@NTT Network Innovation Labs
TEL: +81-46-859-4315
FAX: +81-46-859-5541




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:19:10 +0000
Message-ID: <0e8101c80d9a$fa2ce4f0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:14:15 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Tom,


> Yes, I find this version clearer.

Good. Thanks.

> I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any
> discussion to when it is a WG I-D.  One is the change of the first 
> sentence from
> 'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS'
> to
> 'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS'
> which sounds quite a change.   In practice, this does not reflect a 
> dramatic
> change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it 
> quite
> right.

This tackled a comment from Don O'Connor.

I think the essence of Don's point was that the techniques being described 
were not data plane OAM. In fact, while we may leverage data plane OAM, for 
most (all?) technologies with which we are dealing, the data plane OAM is 
already defined (stroke being defined) by other bodies or other working 
groups.

We'd be happy to see another formulation of this text.

> Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume 
> it is
> too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF.

Ah. Hmm.

As you say, NetConf is nascent. It would be a trifle premature to *require* 
NetConf conformance. In fact, the requirements would perhaps be a little 
more abstract (e.g., "standardised tools for operational management") if 
there wasn't also the general IETF "SHOULD" applied to the development of 
MIB modules for all protocols and protocol extensions.

Cheers,
Adrian






Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:19:02 +0000
Message-ID: <0e8601c80d9b$59115820$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Asking again about draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:16:59 +0100
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Hi,

When we asked about adopting 
draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-01.txt as a WG document we didn't 
get thorough consensus, and since both Deborah and I are authors on the 
draft, we decided we should play it very safe.

The new revision, draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt, attempts 
to reach closure on the issues raised when we polled the list, and some of 
our own concerns.

So, second time of asking...

Do you think draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt should be 
adopted as a CCAMP working group draft?

Thanks,
Adrian







Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:21:44 +0000
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) 
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:20:11 +0100
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FYI
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "IESG Secretary" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: <iesg@ietf.org>; <iab@iab.org>; "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; 
"Deborah Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:15 PM
Subject: Internal WG Review: Recharter of Common Control and Measurement 
Plane WG (ccamp)


>A new charter for the Common Control and Measurement Plane (ccamp)
> working group in the Routing Area of the IETF is being considered.
> The draft charter is provided below for your review and comment.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> +++
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Last Modified: 2007-10-05
>
> Current Status: Active Working Group
>
> Chair(s):
> Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
>
>
> Routing Area Director(s):
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> David Ward <dward@cisco.com>
>
> Routing Area Advisor:
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
>
> Technical Advisor(s):
> Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
>
> Mailing Lists:
> General Discussion: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> To Subscribe: majordomo@ops.ietf.org
> In Body: subscribe ccamp
> Archive: https://ops.ietf.org/lists/ccamp
>
> Description of Working Group:
>
> OLD
> The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining
> a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
> physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom
> service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches,
> ATM and Frame Relay switches, MPLS, GRE, in cooperation with the MPLS
> WG.
>
> NEW
> The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining
> a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for
> physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom
> service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches,
> TDM switches, Ethernet switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP
> encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the
> MPLS WG.
>
> ===
>
> New paragraph in the list of Scope bullets.
> Suggest to place it after:
> "- Definition of MIB modules and other OAM techniques relevant to the
> protocols and extensions specified within the WG."
> and before:
> "CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks:"
>
> - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol
> extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed
> Ethernet data paths for Ethernet data planes that are already
> approved by an SDO with responsibility for the Ethernet data
> plane. It is expected that the primary SDO in this case is the
> IEEE. Note that the specification or modification of Ethernet data
> planes is out of scope.
>
>
> ===
>
> Final paragraph
>
> OLD
> In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
> following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN and PCE. The WG
> will also cooperate with the ITU-T.
>
> NEW
> In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the
> following other WGs: MPLS, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, L1VPN, and PCE. The
> WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1.
>
> ===
>
> Milestone revisions (see below for full revised milestone list)
>
> OLD
> Jan 2006 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> NEW
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> ---
> OLD
> Mar 2006 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> NEW
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> ---
> OLD
> Apr 2006 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> NEW
> Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> ---
> OLD
> Jun 2006 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Oct 2006 Submit MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG
> review
> NEW
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Nov 2006 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2006 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Jan 2007 Submit MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and
> solutions I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Feb 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> NEW
> Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Mar 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> NEW
> Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> ---
> OLD
> Jun 2007 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> NEW
> Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Aug 2007 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG
> review
> NEW
> Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG
> review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2007 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> NEW
> Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> ---
> OLD
> Dec 2007 Recharter or close Working Group
> NEW
> Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group
> ---
> NEW
> Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and
> explicitly-routed Ethernet networks
> ---
> NEW
> Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled
> and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review
>
> ====
>
> Goals and Milestones (full revised milestone list)
>
> Done Post strawman WG goals and charter
> Done Identify and document a limited set of candidate solutions
> for signalling and for measurement. Among candidate control
> solutions to be considered are the existing GMPLS drafts.
> Done Build appropriate design teams
> Done Submit WG document defining path setup portions of common
> control plane protocol
> Done Submit WG document defining common measurement plane protocol
> Done Submit LMP MIB to IESG
> Done Submit protection & restoration documents to IESG
> Done Submit ASON signaling requirements doc to IESG
> Done Submit GMPLS MIBs to IESG
> Done Produce CCAMP WG document for generic tunnel tracing protocol
> Done Produce CCAMP WG document for multi-area/AS signaling and
> routing
> Done Submit ASON routing requirements doc to IESG
> Done Submit revised charter and milestones to IESG for IESG
> consideration of more detailed deliverables and determination
> of usefulness of continuation of WG
> Done First version WG I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in
> ISIS and OSPF
> Done First version WG I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh
> membership
> Done Submit ASON Routing evaluation I-D for IESG review
> Done Cross-WG review of I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in
> ISIS and OSPF
> Done First version WG I-D MPLS to GMPLS migration strategies
> Done First version WG I-D Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-
> Region Networks
> Done First version WG I-D for Evaluation of existing protocols for
> MLN/MRN
> Done First version of WG I-D for ASON Routing solutions
> Done Submit RSVP-TE extensions for inter-domain signaling I-D for
> IESG review
> Done Submit Per-domain path computation signaling I-D for IESG
> review
> Done First version of WG I-D for OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module
> Done Submit GMPLS signaling in support of Call Management I-D for
> IESG review
> Done First version WG Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-
> domain issues for disjoint and protected paths
> Done Submit I-D for Advertising TE Node Capabilities in ISIS and
> OSPF for IESG review
> Done Submit GMPLS/ASON lexicography I-D for IESG review
> Done First version WG I-D MPLS-GMPLS interworking requirements and
> solutions
> Done Submit LSP Stitching I-D for IESG review
> Done Submit I-D for Automatic discovery of MPLS-TE mesh membership
> for IESG review
> Done Submit GMPLS routing and signaling interoperability advice I-D
> for IESG review
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D for Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN
> Sep 2007 First version WG I-D GMPLS OAM Requirements
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE to GMPLS migration strategies I-D for IESG
> review
> Sep 2007 Submit MPLS-TE/GMPLS interworking requirements I-D for
> IESG review
> Oct 2007 First version WG I-Ds for GMPLS source-controlled and
> explicitly-routed Ethernet networks
> Oct 2007 Submit Informational I-D for Analysis of inter-domain
> issues for disjoint and protected paths for IESG review
> Oct 2007 Submit Requirements for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region
> Networks I-D for IESG review
> Oct 2007 Submit Evaluation of existing protocols for MLN/MRN for
> IESG review
> Nov 2007 First version of WG I-D for additional MIB module to
> cover RSVP-TE signaling extensions
> Dec 2007 Submit OSPF-TE/GMPLS MIB module for MIB doctor and IESG
> review
> Jan 2008 Submit ASON Routing solutions I-D for IESG review
> Feb 2008 Submit GMPLS OAM Requirements I-D for IESG review
> Mar 2008 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review
> Apr 2008 Submit MIB module for RSVP-TE signaling extensions for
> MIB doctor and IESG review
> Sep 2008 Submit protocol extensions for GMPLS source-controlled
> and explicitly-routed Ethernet networks for IESG review
> Dec 2008 Recharter or close Working Group
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:11:07 +0000
Message-ID: <08d701c80ce8$b5869060$0601a8c0@pc6>
Reply-To: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
From: "tom.petch" <cfinss@dial.pipex.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:54:10 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yes, I find this version clearer.

I was struck by two semantic changes, for which I am happy to leave any
discussion to when it is a WG I-D.  One is the change of the first sentence from
'This document describes requirements for data plane OAM for GMPLS'
to
'This document describes requirements for control plane OAM for GMPLS'
which sounds quite a change.   In practice, this does not reflect a dramatic
change of contents, but then again, I do not think either sentence gets it quite
right.

Second, I notice a much stronger emphasis on (SNMP) MIB modules; I presume it is
too early to accommodate other forms, such as the nascent NETCONF.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt


> Hi,
>
> FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on
> the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to
> tidy up the language a bit.
>
> Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns
> before.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM
> Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>
>
> >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> >directories.
> >
> > Title           : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
> > Switching (GMPLS) Networks
> > Author(s)       : T. Otani, et al.
> > Filename        : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
> > Pages           : 11
> > Date            : 2007-10-08
> >
> > This document describes requirements for operations and management
> > (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
> > networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS.
> >
> > A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> >
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02
.txt
> >
> > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
> > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of
> > the message.
> > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
> > to change your subscription settings.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
> > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
> > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> > "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
> >
> > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
> >
> > Send a message to:
> > mailserv@ietf.org.
> > In the body type:
> > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > I-D-Announce mailing list
> > I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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Message-Id: <6C17AC93-A9DE-4DDC-A869-60855D5A35D1@cisco.com>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 09:26:52 +0200
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

Hi Yakov,

On Oct 10, 2007, at 5:10 PM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>>>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
>>>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>>>
>>>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)
>>>>> - CE
>>>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be
>>>>> used
>>>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>>>> application ... sounds
>>>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
>>>> TE LSP
>>>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
>>>> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>>>
>>> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
>>> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
>>> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
>>
>> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for
>> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes
>> already defined for the IGPs ?
>
> If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
> what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
> to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.
>

On the first question, I do not think that there is yet a CCAMP  
consensus
(on both drafts by the way). Furthermore, if we can agree to simply  
reuse
the IGP-TE TLVs to be carried in BGP for the "PE-CE" links we are  
effectively
merging the two IDs, which I had proposed to do since a single draft  
would
then serve both applications and may be future ones. Makes sense ?

Cheers.

JP.

> Yakov.




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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Igor Bryskin <i_bryskin@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  MLN extensions question -- regions and/or layers?
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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Hi,

I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:
a) server and client layers belong to different regions;
b) server and client layer belong to the same region

Igor

Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com> wrote: Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in 
addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs 
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as 
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a 
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to 
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported 
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have 
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be 
wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in 
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>>    0                   1                   2                   3     
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>>  ---snip---
>>   
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
>> |                  (variable)                                   |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In 
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be 
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) 
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a 
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more 
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this 
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements 
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that 
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if 
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





       
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Hi,<br><br>I completely agree with Greg. As far as adaptation capability is concerned there should be no difference between:<br>a) server and client layers belong to different regions;<br>b) server and client layer belong to the same region<br><br>Igor<br><br><b><i>Greg Bernstein &lt;gregb@grotto-networking.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in <br>addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs <br>other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as <br>IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a <br>systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to <br>describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported <br>adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.<br>Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd
 really want to know which ports have <br>access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be <br>wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in <br>the data plane.<br><br>Regards<br><br>Greg B.<br><br>Martin Vigoureux wrote:<br>&gt; Dear Greg,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations<br>&gt; performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)<br>&gt; while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended<br>&gt; to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing<br>&gt; from a given switching capability to a different one.<br>&gt; "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)<br>&gt; capability.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; hope it clarifies.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; best regards,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Greg Bernstein a écrit :<br>&gt;&gt; Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific <br>&gt;&gt; examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.<br>&gt;&gt; (a)
 SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported<br>&gt;&gt; (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the <br>&gt;&gt; ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly <br>&gt;&gt; pack them in.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Currently the draft has:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;    0                   1                   2                   3     <br>&gt;&gt; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  <br>&gt;&gt;  ---snip---<br>&gt;&gt;   <br>&gt;&gt;
 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    <br>&gt;&gt; |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    <br>&gt;&gt; |                  (variable)                                   |    <br>&gt;&gt; +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In <br>&gt;&gt; both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be <br>&gt;&gt; the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be <br>&gt;&gt; SDH.<br>&gt;&gt; So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) <br>&gt;&gt; would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a <br>&gt;&gt; single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info
 field?<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Regards<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Greg B.<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; Adrian Farrel wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; some elements might change.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG
 <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; draft.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Adrian<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br><br>-- <br>===================================================<br>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237<br><br><br><br></blockquote><br><p>&#32;
      <hr size=1>Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48252/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC"> mobile search 
that gives answers</a>, not web links. 


--0-896040048-1192038008=:39219--



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From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
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To: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
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Hi Martin, I thought that multi-layer would also be supported in 
addition to multi-region...  Typically VCAT is used as part (but needs 
other adaptations such as GFP or POS) to get from a higher layer such as 
IP or Ethernet into the SDH server layer. It seems like we need a 
systematic way to describe multiple adaptations without having to 
describe all possible permutations. Hence I thought a list of supported 
adaptations whether between regions or layers would be more efficient.
Also, for TDM hierarchies, I'd really want to know which ports have 
access to a finer granularity fabric and which don't. What would be 
wrong with having adaptations within a region?  Its done all the time in 
the data plane.

Regards

Greg B.

Martin Vigoureux wrote:
> Dear Greg,
>
> both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
> performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
> while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
> to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
> from a given switching capability to a different one.
> "Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
> capability.
>
> hope it clarifies.
>
> best regards,
>
> Greg Bernstein a écrit :
>> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
>> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
>> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
>> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
>> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
>> pack them in.
>>
>> Currently the draft has:
>>
>>    0                   1                   2                   3     
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>>  ---snip---
>>   
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
>> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
>> |                  (variable)                                   |    
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ In 
>> both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
>> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be 
>> SDH.
>> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) 
>> would require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a 
>> single stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more 
>>> or less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this 
>>> subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>>
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements 
>>> and the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that 
>>> this provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if 
>>> some elements might change.
>>>
>>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>>> draft.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:12:53 +0000
Message-Id: <200710101510.l9AFAnn59198@magenta.juniper.net>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <12784.1192029049.1@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:10:49 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

JP,

> >>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
> >>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> >>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >>>
> >>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >>>
> >>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)  
> >>> - CE
> >>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be  
> >>> used
> >>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
> >> application ... sounds
> >> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
> >> TE LSP
> >> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
> >> inter-domain TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
> >
> > Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> > defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> > of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.
> 
> Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for  
> the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes  
> already defined for the IGPs ?

If there is a CCAMP WG consensus to add additional information to
what is currently specified in the BGP TE attribute the authors of
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute have no problems with adding this info
to what is presently specified in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute.

Yakov.



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Message-ID: <406e32c00710100716n7cfd6d23sb47889b9081aa69d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:16:08 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>,  "Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>,  "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hello Mach,

Thanks a lot for your reply, all clear now.

Regards,
Peng

On 10/10/07, Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com> wrote:
> Hi Peng,
>
> On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote:
>
> >Hello Mach,
> >
> >> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
> >>
> >
> >Understood :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hello Mach,
> >> >
> >> >Just be curious about the following:
> >> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
> >> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
> >> >
> >> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
> >> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
> >> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
> >>
> >> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.
> >
> >One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
> >inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
> >purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
> >computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
> >link(s) is available.
>
> Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available.
>
> >
> >Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
> >computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
> >TE link(s)?
>
> As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check.
>
> >Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
> >weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?
> >
> Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it.
>
>
> >
> >Regards,
> >Peng
>
>
> Best regards,
> Mach Chen
>
>
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:01:31 +0000
Message-ID: <09c701c80b45$aaccb310$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: New working group draft - MLN Solutions
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:58:34 +0100
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Hi,

Definitely good support for this. Thanks.

Authors, please submit as draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-00.txt

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: Proposed new working group draft


> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need 
> to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:09:05 +0000
Message-ID: <470C884E.2030501@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:07:42 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I
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To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
CC: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question
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Dear Greg,

both of your (a) and (b) examples correspond to operations
performed within a switching capability (i.e. TDM-SC)
while the sub-TLV here defined is designed and intended
to be used for cross-region operations, i.e. when passing
from a given switching capability to a different one.
"Adaptation" here describes a transition (from SCx to SCy with x!=y)
capability.

hope it clarifies.

best regards,

Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
> examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
> (a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
> (b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
> ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
> pack them in.
> 
> Currently the draft has:
> 
>    0                   1                   2                   3     0 1 
> 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    | 
> Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
>  ---snip---
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+    
> |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |    
> |                  (variable)                                   |    
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ 
> In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
> the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH.
> So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
> 
> Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would 
> require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single 
> stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
>> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
>> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
>> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
>> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
>> elements might change.
>>
>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>> draft.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:25:17 +0000
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:15:55 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>, Vishwas Manral <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, Alan Davey <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-id: <0JPO00LC5PJ1GI@szxga02-in.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi Peng,
  
On 2007-10-10, at 11:50:55 Peng He wrote:

>Hello Mach,
>
>> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
>>
>
>Understood :-)
>>
>>
>> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
>>
>> >Hello Mach,
>> >
>> >Just be curious about the following:
>> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
>> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
>> >
>> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
>> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
>> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
>>
>> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.
>
>One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
>inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
>purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
>computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
>link(s) is available.

Yes, and to make sure that the remote LSR is available. 

>
>Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
>computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
>TE link(s)? 

As I know, in order to make sure the validity of a path, most of the existing implements do perform such two-way check. 

>Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
>weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?
>
Theoretically, you may say that, but as I said above, most of implement will use it.


>
>Regards,
>Peng


Best regards,			
Mach Chen





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Message-ID: <406e32c00710092050m7b9482eeo674431d6883e455f@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:50:55 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>,  "Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>,  "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hello Mach,

> Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)
>

Understood :-)
>
>
> On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:
>
> >Hello Mach,
> >
> >Just be curious about the following:
> >>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
> >"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
> >
> >What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
> >mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
> >inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
>
> Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some >implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so >the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the >remote ASBR.

One question:  so the local ASBRs "advertise the TE info of the
inter-AS TE link(s) from the view of the remote ASBR." is only for the
purpose of "...do a two-way check before using the link for path
computation" and the "two-way check" is only for making sure the
link(s) is available.

Will the TE info of incoming inter-AS link(s) be considered into path
computation process (by CSPF) like what it does to outgoing inter-AS
TE link(s)? Or your I-D just provides this "potential" capability,
weather to use it depends on the detailed implementations?


Regards,
Peng



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:40:03 +0000
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:07 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Alan Davey <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>
Cc: OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, Vishwas Manral <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>
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Hi Alan,

Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)

Thanks for your useful comments!

On 2007-09-27, at 17:48:59 Alan Davey wrote:

>Guys
>
>Apologies for the late response.  
>
>I basically agree with Acee.
>
>*	It makes sense to define a new OSPFv3-TE LSA type to carry the
>AS connectivity information.  I think that this would probably provide a
>better and more back compatible way to identify the new advertisements
>than defining a new link type value.

Agree, a new LSA type is a better option for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE.

>
>*	It also makes sense to use the same approach in OSPFv2 and
>OSPFv3 and so a new OSPFv2 opaque type may be the way to go. 
>

We are considering whether define a new OSPFv2 opaque type.

>My other comments on the draft, from an OSPFv3 TE perspective, are as
>follows.
>
>*	On the subject of identifying the other end of the inter-AS
>link.
>
>	-  The Link ID sub-TLV is not suitable as it SHOULD be ignored
>on receipt by an OSPFv3 TE implementation.  
>
>	-  The Neighbor ID sub-TLV MUST be used instead.  This sub-TLV
>contains the neighbor's interface ID and the neighbor's 32-bit Router ID
>(note that this is NOT the TE Router ID).
>
>	-  Use of the Neighbor ID sub-TLV requires configuration at the
>ASBR of the remote ASBR's interface ID and the 32-bit Router ID.
>

Yes, for OSPFv3 inter-AS TE, this will be performed as the current OSPFv3 TE does.

>	-  You may want to advertise a global-scope IPv6 address for the
>router at the other end of an inter-AS link in a Remote Interface IPv6
>Address Sub-TLV.  This would also need to be configured.
>

>*	As Acee pointed out, there is currently no OSPFv3 TE equivalent
>to the Type 11 Opaque LSA, that is, there is no defined LSA for flooding
>AS scope TE information.

So, allocating a new separate LSA could make it easyly for the inter-AS TE information having area or AS flooding scope.
 
>
>*	The wording needs to be changed for OSPFv3 TE when describing
>the contents of a "proxy" advertisement for the backward direction of an
>inter-AD TE link.
>

OK.

>Regards
>
>
>Alan Davey
>


Best regards,			
Mach Chen








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Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 02:39:55 +0000
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 10:37:14 +0800
From: Mach Chen <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
To: Peng He <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@redback.com>, OSPF List <ospf@ietf.org>, Vishwas Manral <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>, Alan Davey <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>, CCAMP List <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-id: <0JPO003KICMIL3@szxga03-in.huawei.com>
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Hi Peng,

Sorry for the late response(Just return from long national holidays)

  
On 2007-10-03, at 10:33:31 Peng He wrote:

>Hello Mach,
>
>Just be curious about the following:
>>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
>"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
>
>What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
>mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
>inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.

Yes, due to there is no OSPF adjacency running on the inter-AS link, and some implements(CSPF) will do a two-way check before using the link for path computation, so the local ASBR should advertise the TE info of the inter-AS TE link from the view of the remote ASBR.  

>
>Regards,
>Peng
>


Best regards,			
Mach Chen





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 11:51:36 +0000
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 20:49:14 +0900
From: Eiji Oki <oki.eiji@lab.ntt.co.jp>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Message-Id: <20071009204849.C894.OKI.EIJI@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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Support.

Eiji

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to 
> look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 09:43:42 +0000
Message-ID: <07b801c80a58$b0adf750$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt 
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:37:25 +0100
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Hi,

FYI. We tried to take on board some of the comments and concerns raised on 
the list when we asked about adopting this as a WG I-D. We also worked to 
tidy up the language a bit.

Would appreciate more thoughts especially from those who expressed concerns 
before.

Thanks,
Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:40 PM
Subject: I-D Action:draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
>
> Title           : OAM Requirements for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label 
> Switching (GMPLS) Networks
> Author(s)       : T. Otani, et al.
> Filename        : draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
> Pages           : 11
> Date            : 2007-10-08
>
> This document describes requirements for operations and management
> (OAM) for Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS)
> networks, as well as for applications of GMPLS.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt
>
> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
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>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
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> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
> "get draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
>
> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>
> Send a message to:
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> In the body type:
> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-nadeau-ccamp-gmpls-oam-requirements-02.txt".
>
> NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
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Message-ID: <8c99930d0710090045ua30cc4hc7beaf426e1626f3@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 03:45:56 -0400
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Draft response to MFA liaison
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
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Adrian,

Thanks for your comments so far.  Regarding the references to drafts,
those of us in the MFA have been hoping that many of these will be
reaching the RFC editor's queue relatively soon.  If they get held up,
we'll have to decide on a case-by-case basis how important that draft
(and the functionality it supports) is to the specification, and
whether we we would be better to remove the reference or hold up the
work. Perhaps we could move the functionality in the drafts to a later
revision of the spec. We'll be discussing this at our next meeting.

This issue is a particular sore spot.  I'm very mystified in
particular as to what's been holding up the BFD specs.  Everyone is
implementing the expired drafts, but the limbo that the drafts are in
is affecting work both in the IETF and outside.

Cheers,
Andy

On 10/8/07, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt
> with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS
> Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.
>
> We were requested to respond by 18th October.
>
> Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so
> it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.
>
> I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following
> as a starting-point for a response liaison.
>
> Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time
> for me to send the liaison on October 15th.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
> ===
> Dear David and Rao,
>
> Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As
> you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also
> participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is
> understandably low.
>
> We do have the following observations for your consideration.
>
> 1. References.
>
> In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our
> specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
> that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this
> document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this
> stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final
> ballot.
> The following list of references falls into this category:
> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
> - draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
> - draft-ietf-bfd-base
> - draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
> - draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
> - draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
> - draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
> - draft-ietf-bfd-mib
>
> 2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI
>
> In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular
> to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI
> specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of
> support.
>
> Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification,
> although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in
> section 5 does not reference RFC3473.
>
> Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also
> need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.
>
> 3. Broken Reference
>
> In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the
> reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or
> draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.
>
> Best regards,
> Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>
>
>
>



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 23:08:42 +0000
Message-ID: <470AB822.80609@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:07:14 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft -- MLN extensions question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Hi all looking at the MRN extensions draft I've got two specific 
examples of "adaptation" I'd like to understand how to encode.
(a) SDH/SONET VCAT higher order (VC-3, VC-4) only supported
(b) SDH/SONET finer granularity switching capability. For example the 
ability to pull VT1.5, VT2 our of VC-3/VC-4 switch them and possibly 
pack them in.

Currently the draft has:

    0                   1                   2                   3  
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   | Switching Cap |   Encoding    | Switching Cap |   Encoding    |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 0              |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
  ---snip---
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |                  Max LSP Bandwidth at priority 7              |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  
   |        Adaptation Capability-specific information             |  
   |                  (variable)                                   |  
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+  

In both the cases mentioned above the Switching Cap (1 and 2) would be 
the same TDM, similarly the encoding types in both (1 and 2) would be SDH.
So what would be in the Adaptation Capability specific info field?

Also, to get from SDH to Ethernet via VCAT and GFP (or whatever) would 
require multiple adaptations would those be represented in a single 
stack within the Adaptation Capability specific info field?

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:59:25 +0000
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:58:16 -0500
From: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
To: 'Adrian Farrel' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: 'Tomohiro Otani' <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "'K. Miyazaki'" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "'Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)'" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Message-id: <002601c809f6$54f18ba0$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com>
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Thread-index: AcgDakR1Wqrne6KaSOO+a3PewZkcJAGhdccw

Hi, 

I think this draft (draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt) is hitting
an important need that would help RWA computation in general wavelength
switched optical network (WSON).  

A fixed mapping between the GMPLS lambda label space and the ITU-T WDM grid
(as suggested by Otani draft) would be very helpful to an entity that deals
with global computation such as PCE. As the PCE technology is envisioned as
a solution for RWA in WSON, global lambda label is the first step to be
agreed upon across the network entities. 

The only issue I can foresee is the right sizing of the lambda labels. It
should be scalable enough to accommodate future growth of WDM channels. 

Regards, 

Young 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 6:47 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Tomohiro Otani; ho-guo@kddilabs.jp; K. Miyazaki; Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)
Subject: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt

Hi,

I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.

Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is always

possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.

Here are some nits and issues in the current draft.

===
Abstract
You should not use square bracket [ ] references in the Abstract
===
Abstract
d/ and getting significant/
===
Abstract
"new generation"
Do you mean "next generation" or "new"?
===
Abstract
s/proposes/defines/
===
Section 3
s/vendors?  network is/vendors'  networks are/
===
Section 3
  "It is needless to say, a LSP must be appropriately provisioned
   between a selected pair of ports within Domain A, considering
   wavelength information. Even over multiple domains, a LSP must be
   accordingly established satisfying wavelength constraints."
I'm having some trouble parsing this paragraph!
===
Figure 2
The node numbers in figure 2 don't match those in figure 1, and that is 
confusing since it is supposed to show the details of the connection shown 
in figure 1.
===
Section 4
I think you need to be careful here.
These requirements should probably not be expressed in RFC2119 language.
Reference to advertising labels is a distraction. I understand that this is 
interesting to you, but as described in the text here and in 
draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt there are some considerable

concerns about extending the IGPs to carry label identifiers. I suggest you 
restrict your I-D to the identification of lambdas in GMPLS labels and let 
future work decide how these encodings might be used outside signaling.
===
Section 5.2
It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits in the

CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find ways of 
decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating another bit to 
the CS field.
Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it seems 
to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is not so 
improbable.
So, how about...
       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===
Section 5.3
To correspond with the field placement suggested for section 5.2, I would 
suggest the following for CWDM.
       0                   1                   2                   3
       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
      |Grid |     Reserved        |              Lambda               |
      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===
Section 6.1
I think some of the progression here is faulty.
We have:
  "An all-optical network imposes the Lambda continuity constraint, that
   is, a label cannot be changed hop by hop, but must have an end to end
   scope.

   The above is not supported by RFC3471 that states that a label has
   significance only between two neighbors."
It is true that 3471 lambda labels only have link-local significance, but 
that does not mean that end-to-end lambda continuity cannot be supported. 
Nor does it mean that the label must or must not be changed hop-by-hop.

I suspect that the whole of section 6.1 is surplus to the needs of this I-D,

and could be dropped without any problem.
The two things you do need in this section are:
1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
   Label can be used.
2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
   Generalized Label Object?
===
Section 6.2
As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
availability is best removed from this I-D.
===
Section 7
You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to snooping and

external control. I don't think this changes the security model, but you 
should mention the fact.
===
Section 10
I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
===

Cheers,
Adrian 








Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:31:28 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:29:15 -0500
Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D0222F54C@rchemx01.fnc.net.local>
Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Thread-Index: AcgIY3Yv693svNfHRKqOQI3yyibtoQBdDGyg
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

Hi Adrian,

My comments below...

Thanks,
Snigdho

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org]On
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:12 AM
To: Bardalai, Snigdho; Ccamp (E-mail)
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new
Extensions


Hi Snigdho,

Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.

Some thoughts...

We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think =
it=20
actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly =
the=20
same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the=20
SRefresh would not fix the problem.

[SCB] We had thought about such an option but as you mention the =
solution would=20
      have to consider the full refresh scenario as well.

In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very =

small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between =
N2=20
completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say =
that=20
N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and =
running.=20
That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
- either
    - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
  or
     - respond to any first received message from a
       neighbor with which it does not have an active
       Hello exchange by sending a Hello
- ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
  from neighbors with which it does not have an active
  Hello exchange

[SCB] This is a good and robust solution. Addressing this type of =
implementation detail
      would be a good candidate for the GR-description draft.

We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could =
either=20
mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources=20
required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are =
already=20
in use.

In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new =
resource=20
allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).

In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] =
contain=20
"Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the=20
PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of=20
failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with=20
"Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable =

Label Set object.

So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. =

Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has =
Resv=20
state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes =
(all=20
of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect =
something=20
slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking =
the=20
dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything =
else=20
is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a =
Hello=20
if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.

In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set =
far to=20
large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because =
N1 is=20
not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. =
The=20
former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to =
be=20
treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

[SCB] I believe what we are getting into is the clarification of the =
detailed
      behaviors to cover the various scenarios. I agree that the =
GR-description
      ID would be the ideal place to clarify these.

With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of=20
multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh=20
failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was =
removed=20
from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) =
as=20
second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have=20
draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.

I suggest:

1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without=20
SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.

2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers =
your=20
questions about multiple failures.

In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and=20
pointer to what they could change.

[SCB] Sure, I will provide some text.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new=20
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration =
times=20
the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the =
neighboring=20
node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 =
seconds,=20
the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds =
then=20
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on =
a=20
new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an =
issue=20
with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because =
the=20
resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues =
sending=20
SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because =
there=20
is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes =
a=20
Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL =
because=20
N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have =
not=20
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and =
a=20
real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 =
doing=20
anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there=20
something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful=20
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when=20
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes=20
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream =
ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D =
and=20
E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in =

node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:09:56 +0000
Message-ID: <470A8023.6030801@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:08:19 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>
CC: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020804070405000000020707"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems
like a lot, but wouldn't we'd like to describe the full range of the
latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at a
narrow spacing.

At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of
the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per ITU-T)
at 193.1THz.

So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now
given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new
modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question.
Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link
either ;-)

I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those
definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to that.

When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want
to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I
think that can be orthogonal. For example if I have a 32 channel C-band
based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage (for
example in routing) I could use something like:

(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) +
(Channel Count m) + (Bit map that is m bits long with 0/1 indication
available/in use).

Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength
colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) +
(channel range as a 16 bit integer).

Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems
reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many
other contexts!

Regards

Greg



Tomohiro Otani wrote:
> Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,
>
> Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
> We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.
>
> I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
> how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
> (I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)
>
> With best regards,
>
> Tomo
>
>
> Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
>   
>> Hi,
>>
>> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
>> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
>> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
>> a hop-by-hop basis.
>>
>> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
>> wavelength level to choose the path.
>>
>> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
>> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
>> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
>> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
>> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
>> technologies. 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
>> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
>>> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
>>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
>>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
>>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
>>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
>>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
>>>
>>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
>>> used. In 
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
>>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
>>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
>>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
>>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
>>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Greg B.
>>>
>>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>>>>
>>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
>>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> ---snip---
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 5.2
>>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
>>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
>>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
>>>> another bit to the CS field.
>>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
>>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
>>>> not so improbable.
>>>> So, how about...
>>>>       0                   1                   2                   3
>>>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> --snip--
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> The two things you do need in this section are:
>>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>>>>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>>>>   Label can be used.
>>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>>>>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>>>>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>>>>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>>>>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>>>>   Generalized Label Object?
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 6.2
>>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>>>> availability is best removed from this I-D.
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 7
>>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
>>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
>>>> model, but you should mention the fact.
>>>> ===
>>>> Section 10
>>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>>>> ===
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Adrian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> -- 
>>> ===================================================
>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>
>   

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



--------------020804070405000000020707
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-2022-JP"
 http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Hi Tomo et. al., I know that the 16 bits that Adrian suggested seems
like a lot, but wouldn't&nbsp; we'd like to describe the full range of the
latest fibers (this doesn't mean all the channels are populated!!!) at
a narrow spacing. <br>
<br>
At the low end of the U-band is 1675nm (179.0THz), and the high end of
the O-band is 1260nm (237.9THz), and we're basing the center (per
ITU-T) at 193.1THz. <br>
<br>
So positive n would go to 3586, and negative n would go to 1130. Now
given things could change in the future, tighter spacing with new
modulation formats it seems that 16 bits isn't out of the question.&nbsp;
Remember, that an MPLS LSR doesn't usually support 2^32 LSPs on a link
either <span class="moz-smiley-s3"><span> ;-) </span></span><br>
<br>
I was thinking about something involving optical bands but those
definitions aren't really firm and can't really see an advantage to
that. <br>
<br>
When it comes to reporting available lambda on a link then we may want
to look at ways to describe that usage in a very compact manner but I
think that can be orthogonal.&nbsp; For example if I have a 32 channel
C-band based system and I want a compact way to represent the usage
(for example in routing) I could use something like:<br>
<br>
(Otani Lambda Label indicating low start frequency and spacing) +
(Channel Count m)&nbsp; + (Bit map that is m bits long&nbsp; with 0/1 indication
available/in use).<br>
<br>
Similarly if I wanted to specify the range of a single wavelength
colorless drop port on a ROADM I could use something like:<br>
(Otani Lambda Label indication low start frequency and spacing) +
(channel range as a 16 bit integer).<br>
<br>
Hence, the revision to your format that Adrian suggested (below) seems
reasonable, provides for growth and we can leverage its use in many
other contexts!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tomohiro Otani wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp" type="cite">
  <pre wrap="">Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,

Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.

I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
(I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)

With best regards,

Tomo


Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Hi,

If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
a hop-by-hop basis.

But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
wavelength level to choose the path.

I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
"n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
technologies. 

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Bernstein" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com">&lt;gregb@grotto-networking.com&gt;</a>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">&lt;adrian@olddog.co.uk&gt;</a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">&lt;ccamp@ops.ietf.org&gt;</a>; "Tomohiro Otani" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:otani@kddilabs.jp">&lt;otani@kddilabs.jp&gt;</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ho-guo@kddilabs.jp">&lt;ho-guo@kddilabs.jp&gt;</a>; "K. Miyazaki" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com">&lt;miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com&gt;</a>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:diego.caviglia@ericsson.com">&lt;diego.caviglia@ericsson.com&gt;</a>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt


  
    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
problem.

For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.

Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
used. In 
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt</a> 
we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Hi,

I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.

Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">---snip---
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">===
Section 5.2
It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
another bit to the CS field.
Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
not so improbable.
So, how about...
      0                   1                   2                   3
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
===

      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">--snip--
    
      </pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">The two things you do need in this section are:
1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
  Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
  Label can be used.
2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
  and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
  Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
  or do you propose to define a new field value in the
  Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
  Generalized Label Object?
===
Section 6.2
As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
availability is best removed from this I-D.
===
Section 7
You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
model, but you should mention the fact.
===
Section 10
I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
===

Cheers,
Adrian



      
        </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237



    
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">

  
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->


  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</pre>
</body>
</html>

--------------020804070405000000020707--



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:43:37 +0000
Message-ID: <06d301c809db$09c8edf0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Draft response to MFA liaison
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 19:42:46 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

The MFA sent us https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file487.txt 
with an attachment that is their "straw-ballot" text of an MPLS 
Inter-Carrier Interconnect (MPLS-ICI) specification at 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file481.pdf.

We were requested to respond by 18th October.

Many of the contributors to the document are participants on this list, so 
it is my expectation that the level of comments may be low.

I noticed a couple of issues reading the document and propose the following 
as a starting-point for a response liaison.

Please send comments on what I have written and also any new ideas in time 
for me to send the liaison on October 15th.

Thanks,
Adrian

===
Dear David and Rao,

Thank you for sharing your MPLS-ICI specification during straw-ballot. As 
you will be aware, many of the contributors to your document also 
participate in the CCAMP working group, so the level of comments is 
understandably low.

We do have the following observations for your consideration.

1. References.

In your liaison to us dated 31st August 2007 you said: "In our 
specifications we are limited to referring only to documents
that have been progressed to the RFC editor queue and beyond." Yet in this 
document you refer to several Internet-Drafts that have not reached this 
stage. It may be hoped that these drafts will progress before your final 
ballot.
The following list of references falls into this category:
- draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-rsvp-te
- draft-ietf-ccamp-inter-domain-pd-path-comp
- draft-ietf-bfd-base
- draft-ietf-bfd-v4v6-1hop
- draft-ietf-mpls-bfd (you probably mean draft-ietf-bfd-mpls)
- draft-ietf-idr-route-filter
- draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements
- draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mib
- draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-mpls-mib
- draft-ietf-bfd-mib

2. Bidirectional Function at the ICI

In the CNI spec you liaised to us before used GMPLS protocols, in particular 
to be able to support bidirectional services. Looking at the ICI 
specification it is unclear whether you intend to have this level of 
support.

Looking at Annex D there is no reference to any protocol specification, 
although there is a reference to the CNI. Further the references table in 
section 5 does not reference RFC3473.

Lastly, if it is your intention to support GMPLS signaling, you may also 
need to reference the GMPLS signaling MIB modules.

3. Broken Reference

In D.2.3 you reference RFC3471 for RSVP-TE Graceful Restart. This is not the 
reference you intend. It is unclear whether you mean RFC3209, RFC3473, or 
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext, or possibly all of these.

Best regards,
Adrian Farrel and Deborah Brungard
IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:31:19 +0000
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: Internet Architecture Board <iab@iab.org>, RFC Editor <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, ccamp mailing list <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, ccamp chair <ccamp-chairs@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Protocol Action: 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for  Discovery of Traffic Engineering Node Capabilities' to Proposed  Standard 
Message-Id: <E1IexLl-0006p1-S6@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:29:05 -0400

The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'IGP Routing Protocol Extensions for Discovery of Traffic Engineering 
   Node Capabilities '
   <draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane
Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Ross Callon and David Ward.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-05.txt-05.txt

Technical Summary
 
    It is highly desired in several cases to take into account Traffic
    Engineering (TE) node capabilities during path selection for MPLS 
    and G-MPLS Traffic Engineered LSPs (ie, in picking the route 
    for the LSP), such as for instance the capability to act as a
    branch Label Switching Router (LSR) of a Point-To-MultiPoint (P2MP)
    LSP. This requires advertising these capabilities within the 
    Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP). For that purpose, this document
    specifies OSPF and IS-IS traffic engineering extensions for the
    advertisement of control plane and data plane traffic engineering 
    node capabilities.

Working Group Summary
 
    No dissent reported. The document is authored by some key CCAMP 
    WG members and received constructive comments from across the WG 
    during its development. The working group has been relatively quiet
    on this work, but the chairs judge that to be because it is "done
    and dusted". It is a small protocol feature.

    The document was shown to the OSPF and ISIS working groups more
    than once,and the last call was notified to the two IGP working
    groups.
 
Protocol Quality
 
    Ross Callon has reviewed this for the IESG. 


Note to RFC Editor

  Section 4.1, replace the first paragraph as follows:

  OLD:
    The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length
    TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability.

  NEW:
    The OSPF TE Node Capability Descriptor TLV is a variable length
    TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    corresponds to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended
    with additional 32-bit words if more bit flags needs to be assigned.
    Any unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits.

  Add the following text at the end of section 4.1, right after 
  the definition of the reserved bits:

    Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be 
    ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 4, 
    implying that there are more than 32 bits in the value field, 
    then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved.


  Section 4.2, replace the first paragraph as follows:

  OLD:
    The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length
    sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability.

  NEW:
    The IS-IS TE Node Capability Descriptor sub-TLV is a variable length
    sub-TLV that contains a series of bit flags, where each bit
    correspond to a TE node capability. The bit-field MAY be extended
    with additional bytes if more bit flags needs to be assigned. Any
    unknown bit flags shall be treated as Reserved bits.

  Update the third paragraph of section 4.2 as follows: 

  OLD
    The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the
    TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS
    [RFC3784]. That is, the TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type, 1
    octet specifying the TLV length and a value field.
  
  NEW
    The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability sub-TLV is the same as the
    sub-TLV format used by the Traffic Engineering Extensions to IS-IS
    [RFC3784]. That is, the sub-TLV is composed of 1 octet for the type,
    1 octet specifying the sub-TLV length and a value field.

  Add the following text at the end of section 4.2, right after 
  the definition of the reserved bits:

    Reserved bits MUST be set to zero on transmission, and MUST be 
    ignored on reception. If the length field is greater than 1, 
    implying that there are more than 8 bits in the value field, 
    then any additional bits (ie, not yet assigned) are reserved.


  Section 8.2, first paragraph. Replace:

    OLD 
       [IS-IS-CAP] defines a new code point registry for sub-TLVs 
       carried in the ISIS CAPABILITY TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP].

    NEW
       IANA has defined a registry for sub-TLVs of the IS-IS CAPABILITY 
       TLV defined in [IS-IS-CAP].  


  Please correct the text at the end of the existing section 8.3 as 
  follows:

    OLD

    Bit No.    Name                                   Reference
    --------+---------------------------------------+-----------
       1       B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability      [This.I-D]
       2       E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability         [This.I-D]
       3       M bit: MPLS-TE support                 [This.I-D]
       4       G bit: GMPLS support                   [This.I-D]
       5       P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support            [This.I-D]

    NEW

    Bit No. Name Reference
    --------+---------------------------------------+---------------
    0 B bit: P2MP Branch LSR capability | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    1 E bit: P2MP Bud LSR capability    | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    2 M bit: MPLS-TE support            | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    3 G bit: GMPLS support              | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    4 P bit: P2MP RSVP-TE support       | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05]
    >4: Available for assignment        | [RFC-ccamp-te-node-cap-05] 

IANA Note

   See RFC editor's note above.




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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 09:44:12 -0400
To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi Yakov,

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:36 AM, Yakov Rekhter wrote:

> JP,
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sorry for being late in that thread ...
>
> no problem :-)
>
>> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>
>>>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements
>>>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>>>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>>>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>>>
>>> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
>>> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>>>
>>> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>>>
>>>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>>>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge)  
>>> - CE
>>>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>>>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be  
>>> used
>>>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>>>
>>
>> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the
>> application ... sounds
>> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE
>> TE LSP
>> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to
>> inter-domain
>> TE (per domain, PCE, ...).
>
> Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
> defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
> of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.

Well for the CE to CE application, we need all TE link attribute for  
the PE-CE links, thus our proposal to reuse the TE link attributes  
already defined for the IGPs ?

Thanks.

JP.

>
> Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:37:29 +0000
Message-Id: <200710081336.l98DaDn92533@magenta.juniper.net>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <40351.1191850573.1@juniper.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:36:13 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

JP,

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for being late in that thread ...

no problem :-)

> On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> 
> >>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements  
> >>> of the Vasseur I-D?
> >> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> >> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
> >
> > I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> > Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
> >
> > I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
> >
> >   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
> >   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
> >   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
> >   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
> >   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
> >
> 
> Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the  
> application ... sounds
> pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE  
> TE LSP
> is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to  
> inter-domain
> TE (per domain, PCE, ...). 

Given the above I could conceive of using the BGP TE attribute, as
defined in draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute, to meet the requirements
of your I-D. I hope that answers Adrian's question.

Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:06:11 +0000
Message-ID: <470A1CEC.40101@kddilabs.jp>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:05:00 +0900
From: Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Cc: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Adrian, Greg and Dan,

Thank you very much for your comments and feedback.
We will update the draft and distribute it for reviewing.

I basically agree with more wavelength channels. At this moment,
how many wavelengths should we support ? 1024 ?
(I was a guy of transmission, but at that time, it was 8 to 16...)

With best regards,

Tomo


Dan Li $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B:
> Hi,
>
> If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
> problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
> and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
> a hop-by-hop basis.
>
> But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
> wavelength level to choose the path.
>
> I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
> current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
> some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
> The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
> "n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
> technologies. 
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
>
>
>   
>> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
>> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
>> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
>> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
>> problem.
>>
>> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
>> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
>> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
>> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
>>
>> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
>> used. In 
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
>> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
>> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
>> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
>> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
>> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg B.
>>
>> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
>>> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>>>
>>> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
>>> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
>>> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
>>>       
>> ---snip---
>>     
>>> ===
>>> Section 5.2
>>> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
>>> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
>>> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
>>> another bit to the CS field.
>>> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
>>> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
>>> not so improbable.
>>> So, how about...
>>>       0                   1                   2                   3
>>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>> ===
>>>
>>>       
>> --snip--
>>     
>>> The two things you do need in this section are:
>>> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>>>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>>>   Label can be used.
>>> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>>>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>>>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>>>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>>>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>>>   Generalized Label Object?
>>> ===
>>> Section 6.2
>>> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
>>> availability is best removed from this I-D.
>>> ===
>>> Section 7
>>> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
>>> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
>>> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
>>> model, but you should mention the fact.
>>> ===
>>> Section 10
>>> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
>>> ===
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> -- 
>> ===================================================
>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:24:16 +0000
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:22:22 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Message-id: <020801c8097b$f807b060$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi,

If the wavelength label only has the local significance, then the routing 
problem needs to be addressed only at the level of the TE link choice, 
and wavelength assignment can be resolved locally by the switches on 
a hop-by-hop basis.

But if we can have the "global semantic" labels, we can run into the 
wavelength level to choose the path.

I also agree with Adrian on the definition of the "global semantic" label,
current the 160 wavelengths per fiber WDM system is deployed by 
some carriers, and the 320 wavelengths per fiber is under developed. 
The 640 wavelengths per fiber is expected in the near future. So the
"n" field is better to be expanded, and leave some room for the new 
technologies. 

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>; "Tomohiro Otani" <otani@kddilabs.jp>; <ho-guo@kddilabs.jp>; "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>; "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:46 AM
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt


> Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
> networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
> be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
> can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
> problem.
> 
> For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
> fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
> port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
> specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
> 
> Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
> used. In 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
> we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
> spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
> with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
> Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
> fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
> > allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
> >
> > Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
> > always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
> > simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
> ---snip---
> > ===
> > Section 5.2
> > It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
> > in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
> > ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
> > another bit to the CS field.
> > Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
> > seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
> > not so improbable.
> > So, how about...
> >       0                   1                   2                   3
> >       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> >      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> >      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
> >      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> > ===
> >
> --snip--
> > The two things you do need in this section are:
> > 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
> >   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
> >   Label can be used.
> > 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
> >   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
> >   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
> >   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
> >   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
> >   Generalized Label Object?
> > ===
> > Section 6.2
> > As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
> > availability is best removed from this I-D.
> > ===
> > Section 7
> > You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
> > control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
> > snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
> > model, but you should mention the fact.
> > ===
> > Section 10
> > I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
> > ===
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> ===================================================
> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
> 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:51:05 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:49:25 +0200
Message-ID: <BBBE5BAA3B351C488C415EA662EA8840048F8112@ftrdmel2>
Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
Thread-Index: AcgClWut2jd/S5tsT6Gkz26XGZ6fsQEkEnGwAJRQTkA=
From: "NIGER Philippe RD-RESA-LAN" <philippe.niger@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

=20
Hi,

I support this I-D as WG draft.

Philippe.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed=20
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or

> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject,

> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and=20
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20
> elements might change.
>=20
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG=20
> draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>=20
>=20





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:16:31 +0000
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:13:40 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Message-id: <00fe01c80972$5f51d7a0$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi,

Please see my comments below.

Regards,

Dan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>; "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


> Hi Snigdho,
> 
> Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.
> 
> Some thoughts...
> 
> We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it 
> actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the 
> same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the 
> SRefresh would not fix the problem.

[dan] Agree. Changing the behavior of SRefresh message would not help.

> 
> In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very 
> small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 
> completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that 
> N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. 
> That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

[dan] The time window size depends on how quickly the restarted node sends 
out the Hello message after the communication comes back. I would like to see 
N2 ignore all received messages until it receives the ACK of the Hello message 
from N1.
 
> 
> That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
> - either
>     - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
>   or
>      - respond to any first received message from a
>        neighbor with which it does not have an active
>        Hello exchange by sending a Hello
> - ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
>   from neighbors with which it does not have an active
>   Hello exchange
>

[dan] Agree with Adrian.
 
> We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either 
> mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources 
> required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already 
> in use.
> 
> In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource 
> allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).
> 
> In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain 
> "Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
> In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the 
> PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of 
> failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with 
> "Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable 
> Label Set object.
> 
> So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. 
> Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv 
> state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all 
> of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something 
> slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the 
> dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else 
> is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello 
> if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.
> 
> In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to 
> large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is 
> not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The 
> former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be 
> treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

[dan] Usually the traffic carried by the data plane is required not be touched
when the control plane fails. So N1 should be very careful to take any actions
to tear down the LSP.

> 
> With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of 
> multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh 
> failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed 
> from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as 
> second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.
> 
> I suggest:
> 
> 1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without 
> SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.
> 
> 2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your 
> questions about multiple failures.
> 
> In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and 
> pointer to what they could change.

[dan] Yes, you're welcome to send us the proposed text for GR-Description ID.

> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
> To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
> Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new 
> extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.
> 
> Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times 
> the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring 
> node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, 
> the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then 
> it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.
> 
> RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a 
> new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue 
> with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.
> 
> Please look-at the sequence diagram below:
> 
>   N1                                N2
>   |                                 |
>   |                                 X (Restart start)
>   |  HELLO                          |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |  SRefresh                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |  HELLO                          |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 |
>   |                                 X (Restart complete)
>   |  SRefresh                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |  NACK                           |
>   |<--------------------------------|
>   |  Path (without recovery label)  |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the 
> resouces are in use)
>   |  PathErr                        |
>   |<--------------------------------|
>   |  PathTear                       |
>   |-------------------------------->|
>   X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
>   |                                 |
> 
> The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending 
> SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there 
> is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a 
> Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because 
> N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not 
> yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a 
> real test.
> 
> What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing 
> anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there 
> something I have missed?
> 
> The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful 
> restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when 
> communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes 
> nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.
> 
> Example,
> 
>              A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G
> 
> Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and 
> E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in 
> node D? Can this be prevented ?
> 
> Would appreciate your response.
> 
> Regards,
> Snigdho
> 
> 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:01:07 +0000
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:57:22 +0800
From: Dan Li <danli@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
To: Arun Satyanarayana <asatyana@cisco.com>, "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Gao, Jianhua" <gjhhit@huawei.com>
Message-id: <00b101c80956$f296ddb0$4b4d460a@china.huawei.com>
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Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsHi Snigdho,

It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.

As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.

For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control plane fails, it's a local policy.

Regards,

Dan


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bardalai, Snigdho 
  To: Ccamp (E-mail) 
  Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 AM
  Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


  Hi, 

  I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

  Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. 

  RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

  Please look-at the sequence diagram below: 

    N1                                N2 
    |                                 | 
    |                                 X (Restart start) 
    |  HELLO                          | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |  SRefresh                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |  HELLO                          | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 | 
    |                                 X (Restart complete) 
    |  SRefresh                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |  NACK                           | 
    |<--------------------------------| 
    |  Path (without recovery label)  | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use) 
    |  PathErr                        | 
    |<--------------------------------| 
    |  PathTear                       | 
    |-------------------------------->| 
    X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion) 
    |                                 | 

  The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.

  What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?

  The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

  Example, 

               A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G 

  Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

  Would appreciate your response. 

  Regards, 
  Snigdho 

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions</TITLE>
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<DIV>Hi Snigdho,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It's better to ignore the refresh message for N2 during the recovery 
process, i.e., before N2 receives the ACK message from N1 for the Hello message 
which indicates N2 restarts, N2 should ignore any refresh messages it received 
from N1. When N1 receives the Hello message from N2 in this case, the Srefresh 
message should be suppressed in N1 according to RFC3473.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As the editor of GR-description ID, we would like to add more text to 
address this important issue if the group come up with the decision.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>For the second issue, the RFC3473 can be applied. If the upstream node of 
node C and the downstream node of node E both restart, node C and E should wait 
until their LSP states recovered. If node D restarts, its LSP states can be 
recovered from node C and E according to GR-EXT draft. Actually in the real 
deployment, the LSP in data plane is required not to be touched even the control 
plane fails, it's a local policy.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dan</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com 
  href="mailto:Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com">Bardalai, Snigdho</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>To:</B> <A title=ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
  href="mailto:ccamp@ops.ietf.org">Ccamp (E-mail)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 06, 2007 12:18 
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 9pt &#23435;&#20307;"><B>Subject:</B> Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful 
  Restart and the new Extensions</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE 
  Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in 
  draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Did anybody come across any issues when the 
  hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large 
  compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE 
  interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts 
  within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect 
  a hello failure. </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>RFC3473 does describe detection of a node 
  restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but 
  we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh 
  message in this scenario.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Please look-at the sequence diagram 
  below:</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  N2</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (Restart start)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (Restart complete)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; 
  PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp; X (CON 
  deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  X (XCON deletion)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; 
  |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  |</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The issue is because N1 did not detect a 
  hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once 
  restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh 
  message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is 
  no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because 
  hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual 
  implementation and a real test.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>What is the solution to this issue because 
  I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the 
  current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The other issue I wanted to understand is 
  with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message 
  handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be 
  issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and 
  downstream ends.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Example,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this 
  condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted 
  after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Would appreciate your response.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>Snigdho</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:35:06 +0000
Message-ID: <04bd01c80814$ff87ff10$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Fw: I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt 
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:32:39 +0100
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Heads-up.

Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 1:10 PM
Subject: [Tsvwg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group Working 
> Group of the IETF.
>
>
> Title           : User-Defined Errors for RSVP
> Author(s)       : G. Swallow, et al.
> Filename        : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt
> Pages           : 8
> Date            : 2007-10-06
>
> The Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) defines an ERROR_SPEC object
> for communicating errors.  That object has a defined format that
> permits the definition of 256 error codes.  As RSVP has been
> developed and extended, the convention has been to be conservative in
> defining new error codes.  Further, no provision for user-defined
> errors exists in RSVP.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-user-error-spec-02.txt
>
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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:14:36 +0000
Message-ID: <046401c80809$dfb94cd0$5102010a@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, "Ccamp \(E-mail\)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:12:04 +0100
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Hi Snigdho,

Always good to have reports of use of the more advanced functions.

Some thoughts...

We can do some work to fix up the SRefresh behavior, but I don't think it 
actually helps, because if Summary Refresh is not being used, exactly the 
same scenario can arise with a Path Refresh. In other words, fixing the 
SRefresh would not fix the problem.

In some circumstances, the window in the scenario you have drawn is very 
small.. The SRefresh *and* the Path Refresh must be sent by N1 between N2 
completing restart and N2's first Hello arriving at N1. One could say that 
N2 should ignore all received messages until it has Hellos up and running. 
That would guarantee that N1 knew about the restart.

That simply requires that when startup completes N2 must:
- either
    - immediately send a new Hello to each neighbor
  or
     - respond to any first received message from a
       neighbor with which it does not have an active
       Hello exchange by sending a Hello
- ignore all subsequent RSVP messages except Hellos
  from neighbors with which it does not have an active
  Hello exchange

We should understand why N2 sends PathErr. "Resources in use" could either 
mean that *all* resources are already in use, or the limit resources 
required on the Path message (i.e. Upstream Label or Label Set) are already 
in use.

In all cases, the error code should indicate that the requested new resource 
allocation cannot be satisfied (N2 thinks this is a new LSP).

In the case of no resource being available, the PathErr MUST [3473] contain 
"Routing problem/MPLS label allocation failure".
In the case of failure because the Label Set cannot be satisfied, the 
PathErr MUST [3473] carry "Routing problem/Label Set". In the case of 
failure because of Upstream Label N2 MUST [3473] send a PathErr with 
"Routing problem/Unacceptable label value" and MAY include an Acceptable 
Label Set object.

So, I would suggest that N1 may be over-reacting to the PathErr from N2. 
Presumably N1 expects that the LSP is up and running - ii already has Resv 
state and data is probably flowing. So any of these three error codes (all 
of which represent LSP setup errors) should cause N1 to suspect something 
slightly strange is happening. Before getting too agitated and taking the 
dramatic step of tearing the LSP, it should just check that everything else 
is functioning correctly, and part of that process would be to send a Hello 
if one has not been sent/received for a considerable period of time.

In fact, your situation arises either because the Hello period is set far to 
large (i.e. larger than the neighbor's whole restart cycle) or because N1 is 
not considering any difference between normal and hello-degraded states. The 
former is a configuration error. The latter should allow the PathErr to be 
treated with more care than a simple PathTear.

With regard to your second question. Yes, we believe that all cases of 
multiple failures are handled by the restart procedures without refresh 
failure causing state to be deleted. However, the text for this was removed 
from the graceful restart draft before publication (actually, long ago) as 
second order failures really clogged up the draft. Instead, we have 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gr-description-00.txt.

I suggest:

1. The situation you describe in your first scenario (with and without 
SRefresh) should be included in the GR-Description I-D.

2. You should check the GR-Description I-D to see whether it answers your 
questions about multiple failures.

In both cases, I am sure the authors would welcome suggested text and 
pointer to what they could change.

Cheers,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions


Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new 
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times 
the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring 
node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, 
the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then 
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure.

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a 
new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue 
with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the 
resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending 
SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there 
is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a 
Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because 
N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not 
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a 
real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing 
anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there 
something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful 
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when 
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes 
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and 
E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in 
node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:34:18 +0000
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From: =?gb2312?B?va/OrMGu?= <jiang.weilian@hotmail.com>
To: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <snigdho.bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>, "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 17:31:25 +0800
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Hi, For your first question, I think the key is the restarted node. 
 
As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can 
periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR 
capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO request message with this multicast destination address, the 
neighbor should know the source node has been restarted, then the two nodes can enter the GR Recovery stage together. 
 
And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh messages from neighbors. 
 
Do you think this way is helpful?  If you concern this way, I wish you would read our draft,and give us your suggestions. For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts'.      As in your figure, what is the meaning that 'B-x...x-C' or 'E-x...x-F' ?      'node's C,D and E restarts' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?
  Regards, Jiang weilian


Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new ExtensionsDate: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.comTo: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Hi, I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.Please look-at the sequence diagram below:   N1                                N2   |                                 |   |                                 X (Restart start)   |  HELLO                          |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |  SRefresh                       |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |  HELLO                          |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 |   |                                 X (Restart complete)   |  SRefresh                       |   |-------------------------------->|   |  NACK                           |   |<--------------------------------|   |  Path (without recovery label)  |   |-------------------------------->|   |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)   |  PathErr                        |   |<--------------------------------|   |  PathTear                       |   |-------------------------------->|   X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)   |                                 | The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.Example,              A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?Would appreciate your response. Regards, Snigdho 
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<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>Hi,</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>For your first question,&nbsp;I think the key is the restarted node. </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>As in our early draft 'draft-jian-ccamp-multinodes-rsvp-restart-00', </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>by adopting multicast destination address the restarted node can </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>periodically send the GR HELLO message outward in the anterior 1/2 </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>RecoveryTime through all the RSVP interfaces to inform its GR </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>capability to its neighbors. When the neighbor receives the GR HELLO </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>request message with this&nbsp;multicast destination address, the </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>neighbor should know the source node&nbsp;has been restarted, then the two </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>nodes </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>can enter the GR Recovery stage together.&nbsp;</FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>And in the anterior 1/2 RecoveryTime&nbsp;the restarted node can ignore the Srefresh </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>messages </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>from neighbors. </FONT><BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR>
<FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>Do you think this way is helpful?&nbsp; <FONT face=Verdana size=2>If you concern this way,&nbsp;I wish you&nbsp;would read our&nbsp;draft,and give us your </FONT></FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2><FONT face=Verdana size=2>suggestions.</FONT></FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>For your another question, I can't understand this: 'Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D </FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>and E restarts'.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As in your figure,&nbsp;what is the meaning that '<FONT face="Courier New">B-x...x-C</FONT>' or '<FONT face="Courier New">E-x...x-F</FONT>'&nbsp;?</FONT><BR><FONT face=Verdana size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 'node's C,D <FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>and E restarts</FONT>' means the Nodes C, D and E both restart?</FONT><BR>
<FONT face=Verdana size=2>&nbsp;</FONT><BR><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;<BR><FONT face=Verdana size=2><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New">Jiang weilian</FONT></FONT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions<BR>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500<BR>From: Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com<BR>To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org<BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Hi,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. </FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Please look-at the sequence diagram below:</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; N2</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart start)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart complete)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (resoure allocation failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp; PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; X (CON deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (XCON deletion)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and a real test.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have missed?</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Example,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?</FONT><BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Would appreciate your response.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Snigdho</FONT> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />²»µÇ¼¾ÍÄܹÜÀí¶à¸öÓʼþÕÊ»§£¬ÊÔÊÔ Windows Live Mail¡£ <a href='http://get.live.com/wl/all' target='_new'>Á¢¼´³¢ÊÔ£¡</a></body>
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--_cbfb7a12-cf69-4ea7-8014-10b207e018d9_--



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Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:19:59 +0000
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Subject: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 11:18:36 -0500
Message-ID: <A278CCD6FF152E478C3CF84E4C3BC79D0222F53A@rchemx01.fnc.net.local>
Thread-Topic: Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new Extensions
Thread-Index: AcgHa2EDRFwGGnkzSXasptNzAJPDIQ==
From: "Bardalai, Snigdho" <Snigdho.Bardalai@us.fujitsu.com>
To: "Ccamp (E-mail)" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi,

I have a couple of questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new =
extensions being propose in draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.

Did anybody come across any issues when the hello interval duration =
times the failure multiple (typically 3) is too large compared to the =
neighboring node restart duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval =
is 10 seconds, the multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts =
within 10 seconds then it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never =
detect a hello failure.=20

RFC3473 does describe detection of a node restart in this case based on =
a new source instance in the hello message, but we have come across an =
issue with NACKs being generated for an Srefresh message in this =
scenario.

Please look-at the sequence diagram below:

  N1                                N2
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart start)
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |  HELLO                          |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 |
  |                                 X (Restart complete)
  |  SRefresh                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |  NACK                           |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  Path (without recovery label)  |
  |-------------------------------->|
  |                                 X (resoure allocation failed because =
the resouces are in use)
  |  PathErr                        |
  |<--------------------------------|
  |  PathTear                       |
  |-------------------------------->|
  X (CON deletion)                  X (XCON deletion)
  |                                 |

The issue is because N1 did not detect a hello failure it continues =
sending SRefreshes which may get NACKed by N2 once restart completes =
because there is no Path state corresponding to the SRefresh message. =
This NACK causes a Path refresh message to be generated but there is no =
RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did not yet detect that N2 has restarted =
because hello exchanges have not yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based =
on an actual implementation and a real test.

What is the solution to this issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 =
doing anything that is not compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is =
there something I have missed?

The other issue I wanted to understand is with respect to the graceful =
restart extension. Will the RecoveryPath message handle issues when =
communication fails and a node restarts? There may be issues when somes =
nodes in the LSP path gets isolated from both upstream and downstream =
ends.

Example,

             A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G

Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If this condition persists and node's C,D =
and E restarts. Will the LSP get deleted after the recovery timer =
expires in node D? Can this be prevented ?

Would appreciate your response.

Regards,
Snigdho

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
6.5.7652.24">
<TITLE>Questions on RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new =
Extensions</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Hi,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">I have a couple of questions on =
RSVP-TE Graceful Restart and the new extensions being propose in =
draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-09.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Did anybody come across any =
issues when the hello interval duration times the failure multiple =
(typically 3) is too large compared to the neighboring node restart =
duration? For example, if the RSVP-TE interval is 10 seconds, the =
multiple is 3 and the neighboring node restarts within 10 seconds then =
it is possible that the RSVP-TE hello will never detect a hello failure. =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">RFC3473 does describe detection =
of a node restart in this case based on a new source instance in the =
hello message, but we have come across an issue with NACKs being =
generated for an Srefresh message in this scenario.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Please look-at the sequence =
diagram below:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
N1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; N2</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart start)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
HELLO&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (Restart =
complete)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
SRefresh&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
NACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; Path (without =
recovery label)&nbsp; |</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (resoure allocation =
failed because the resouces are in use)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
PathErr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&lt;--------------------------------|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
PathTear&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|--------------------------------&gt;|</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; X (CON =
deletion)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; X (XCON deletion)</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The issue is because N1 did not =
detect a hello failure it continues sending SRefreshes which may get =
NACKed by N2 once restart completes because there is no Path state =
corresponding to the SRefresh message. This NACK causes a Path refresh =
message to be generated but there is no RECOVERY_LABEL because N1 did =
not yet detect that N2 has restarted because hello exchanges have not =
yet started. PLEASE NOTE: This is based on an actual implementation and =
a real test.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">What is the solution to this =
issue because I don't see either N1 or N2 doing anything that is not =
compliant as per the current RFCs? Or is there something I have =
missed?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">The other issue I wanted to =
understand is with respect to the graceful restart extension. Will the =
RecoveryPath message handle issues when communication fails and a node =
restarts? There may be issues when somes nodes in the LSP path gets =
isolated from both upstream and downstream ends.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Example,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier =
New">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; A---B-x...x-C---D---E-x...x-F---G</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Nodes C, D and E are isolated. If =
this condition persists and node's C,D and E restarts. Will the LSP get =
deleted after the recovery timer expires in node D? Can this be =
prevented ?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Would appreciate your =
response.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Regards,</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Snigdho</FONT>
</P>

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:07:01 +0000
Message-ID: <47065285.2050100@chello.nl>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:04:37 +0200
From: Huub van Helvoort <hhelvoort@chello.nl>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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Hello,

I support progressing this document as WG draft,
for the same reasons as mentioned by Greg.

Cheers, Huub.

Greg Bernstein wrote:
=====================
> I support this becoming a WG draft.   I think those interested in 
> VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation 
> capabilities mentioned in the draft.
> 
> Greg B.
> 
> Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
>> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
>> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
>> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>>
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
>> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
>> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
>> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
>> elements might change.
>>
>> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
>> draft.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Adrian


-- 
================================================================
                   http://www.van-helvoort.eu/
================================================================
Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:56:14 +0000
Reply-To: <i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com>
From: "Itaru Nishioka" <i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:01:17 +0900
Organization: nec
Message-Id: <005201c80725$e87a6960$c087380a@NISHIOKAPC2>
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I support this draft.

Thanks,
Itaru.
/=======================================
/ Itaru Nishioka  
/ e-mail:i-nishioka@cb.jp.nec.com 
/ Tel. +81-44-396-3287 ext. 8-22-72647 
/ System Platforms Research Labs. 
/ NEC Corporation 
/======================================= 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org 
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have 
> completed last call with just a couple of comments, and now 
> that we have more or less reached stability with our liaisons 
> to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> has been running for some time and tracking both the 
> requirements and the lacunae identified by the evaluation 
> draft. It seems that this provides a good basis for the 
> protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to 
> become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 01:03:23 +0000
Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071005095952.065775d0@imf.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:00:05 +0900
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
From: Tomonori TAKEDA <takeda.tomonori@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Support

Tomonori

At 21:31 07/09/29, Adrian Farrel wrote:
 >Hi,
 >
 >Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need 
to look for a solutions I-D.
 >
 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might change.
 >
 >Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
 >
 >Thanks,
 >Adrian
 >
 >
 > 





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Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:02:44 -0400
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
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Hi,

Sorry for being late in that thread ...

On Oct 3, 2007, at 3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:

>>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements  
>>> of the Vasseur I-D?
>> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
>> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
>
> I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
> Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.
>
> I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:
>
>   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
>   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
>   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
>   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
>   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label
>

Yakov, let me know if you need further clarification on the  
application ... sounds
pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links where a CE to CE  
TE LSP
is needed. The path computation piece is then very much similar to  
inter-domain
TE (per domain, PCE, ...). My question here is why would you want to  
redefine
TE TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in  
order to
avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of interest.

Note that the current Abstract:
Abstract

    This document defines a new BGP attribute, Traffic Engineering
    attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering  
information.

is fairly general ... "carry Traffic Engineering information".

Thanks.

JP.

> A


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Hi,<div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Sorry for =
being late in that thread ...</div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 3, 2007, at =
3:03 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2. Could you =
conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the Vasseur =
I-D?</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In order for me to answer =
this question I'd like to get a clear</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.</div> =
</blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for =
him.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Just trying to find out whether =
we have two problem spaces or one.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think the abstract of his I-D =
is relatively clear:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>This document proposes MP-BGP =
protocol extension so as to convey</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Traffic Engineering Link =
characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>(Customer Edge) links in =
order to extend the visibility of the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Traffic Engineering Database =
to those links.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>This can =
then be used</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>to more efficiently compute =
CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><br></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Yakov, let me know if you =
need further clarification on the application ... =
sounds=A0</div><div>pretty obvious, extend the TED to some PE-CE links =
where a CE to CE TE LSP</div><div>is needed. The path computation piece =
is then very much similar to inter-domain</div><div>TE (per domain, PCE, =
...). My question here is why would you want to redefine</div><div>TE =
TLVs where we could simply reuse the TE TLVs carried in IGPs, in order =
to</div><div>avoid to redefine TLVs for each TE link characteristic of =
interest.</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Note=
 that the current Abstract:</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
Helvetica">Abstract</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 This document defines a new BGP attribute, =
Traffic Engineering</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">=A0=A0 =
attribute, than enables BGP to carry Traffic Engineering =
information.</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> is fairly general =
... "carry Traffic Engineering information".</div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>JP.</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A</div> =
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-9-630883660--



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From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt 
Message-Id: <E1IdY2A-0006EI-52@stiedprstage1.ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:15:02 -0400

--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Operating Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) and the
                          Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) with 
                          Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching 
                          (GMPLS)
	Author(s)	: G. Bernstein, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-03.txt
	Pages		: 17
	Date		: 2007-10-4
	
This document describes requirements for, and use of, the Generalized 
   Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane in conjunction 
   with the Virtual Concatenation (VCAT) layer 1 inverse multiplexing 
   mechanism and its companion Link Capacity Adjustment Scheme (LCAS) 
   which can be used for hitless dynamic resizing of the inverse 
   multiplex group.  These techniques apply to Optical Transport Network 
   (OTN), Synchronous Optical Network (SONET), Synchronous Digital 
   Hierarchy (SDH), and Plesiochronous Digital Hierarchy (PDH) signals.

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Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:00:21 +0000
Message-ID: <470545C2.9010405@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:57:54 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
CC:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I support this becoming a WG draft.   I think those interested in 
VCAT/LCAS will also be interested in the advertising of adaptation 
capabilities mentioned in the draft.

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
>
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG 
> draft.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:18:47 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 11:17:14 -0400
Message-ID: <BABC859E6D0B9A4D8448CC7F41CD2B07053D8001@xmb-rtp-203.amer.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQACqu6SA=
From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1173; t=1191511039; x=1192375039; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=zali@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Zafar=20Ali=20(zali)=22=20<zali@cisco.com> |Subject:=20RE=3A=20Proposed=20new=20working=20group=20draft |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20<adrian@olddog.co.uk>,=20<ccamp@ops.ietf.o rg>; bh=cHJJt2j/SNwoeEfoBAVaWT4t7pZgjJ4l+TIb3upiOEs=; b=o+HeQWnpcX7jeyGxocFznFnJ4j5njbh0aYFF268JQQX+gzqc4mJ7WUh8t/T+lU6y/Et/3WpM FhuMzFiSgBPTClww6laoGBya2H8tToWBxsc0lZAkneyNJSxS02C4i3ye;
Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=zali@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; );

- Support -=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar =20

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM
> > To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> > Subject: Proposed new working group draft
> >=20
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed=20
> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20
> have more or=20
> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20
> this subject,=20
> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> >=20
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> > gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt
> > has been running for some time and tracking both the=20
> requirements and=20
> > the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this=20
> > provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some=20
> > elements might change.
> >=20
> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG=20
> > draft.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:49:58 +0000
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:47:40 -0500
From: Young Lee <ylee@huawei.com>
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: 'Adrian Farrel' <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Message-id: <000001c8068d$217e7470$4c0c7c0a@china.huawei.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Thread-index: AcgClVkzFCsBDceCROWRURkjkEKklAD97UFQ

I support this I-D. 

Young 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Adrian Farrel
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 7:32 AM
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Proposed new working group draft

Hi,

Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to

look for a solutions I-D.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-exte
nsions-04.txt 
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
change.

Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.

Thanks,
Adrian 








Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:22:10 +0000
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:20:07 +0900
From: "FUJIHARA Kazuhiro" <kazuhiro.fujihara@ntt.com>
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Message-id: <20071004191352.A661.KAZUHIRO.FUJIHARA@ntt.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Hi,

I support this ID.

Kazuhiro

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 13:31:38 +0100
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed last 
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less 
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we need to 
> look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and the 
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides a 
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might 
> change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian 
> 
> 

-- 
FUJIHARA Kazuhiro 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:32:31 +0000
Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20071004171629.03bdd410@imb.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:17:03 +0900
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
From: "inoue.ichiro@lab.ntt.co.jp" <inoue.ichiro@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, I support.

Ichiro

 >> Adrian Farrel a $BqD(Brit :
 >> > Hi,
 >> >
 >> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have
 >> completed
 >> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we
 >> have more or
 >> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on
 >> this subject,
 >> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
 >> >
 >> >
 >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr
 >> > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and
 >> tracking both
 >> > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the
 >> evaluation draft.
 >> > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in
 >> > CCAMP even if some elements might change.
 >> >
 >> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to
 >> become a WG draft.
 >> >
 >> > Thanks,
 >> > Adrian
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >
 >>
 >> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:00:14 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:59:45 +0200
Message-ID: <D109C8C97C15294495117745780657AE0873364B@ftrdmel1>
Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
Thread-Index: AcgGW4jPPhukpQrETJ+bUegeBKqblgAANHWA
From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

Hi Adrian, all

I strongly support this ID, I'm co-author :-)

Regards

JL=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] De la part de Martin Vigoureux
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 4 octobre 2007 09:49
> =C0 : zzx-adrian@olddog.co.uk
> Cc : ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Objet : Re: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Adrian,
>=20
> I do support this I-D.
>=20
> martin
>=20
>=20
> Adrian Farrel a =E9crit :
> > Hi,
> >=20
> > Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed=20
> > last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we=20
> have more or=20
> > less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on=20
> this subject,=20
> > we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> >=20
> >=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mr
> > n-extensions-04.txt has been running for some time and=20
> tracking both=20
> > the requirements and the lacunae identified by the=20
> evaluation draft.=20
> > It seems that this provides a good basis for the protocol work in=20
> > CCAMP even if some elements might change.
> >=20
> > Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG draft.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:54:31 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 09:53:42 +0200
Message-ID: <7DBAFEC6A76F3E42817DF1EBE64CB02604E9B875@ftrdmel2>
Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
Thread-Index: AcgClkDw49DcWwWvShyoAk9thdMbBgDxUzeQ
From: "MEURIC Julien RD-CORE-LAN" <julien.meuric@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

Hi all.

I support this ID which deserves its WG status.

Julien


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Adrian Farrel

Hi,

Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed =
last=20
call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or less=20
reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, we =
need to=20
look for a solutions I-D.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-e=
xtensions-04.txt=20
has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and =
the=20
lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this provides =
a=20
good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20
change.

Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG =
draft.

Thanks,
Adrian=20






Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:50:03 +0000
Message-ID: <47049AF5.3040709@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:49:09 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Adrian,

I do support this I-D.

martin


Adrian Farrel a écrit :
> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 06:53:14 +0000
Message-ID: <47048D01.6000707@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:49:37 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: Proposed new working group draft
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi,

Yes, I agree to make it WG document.

Kohei

> Hi,
> 
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have completed 
> last call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have more or 
> less reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this subject, 
> we need to look for a solutions I-D.
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt 
> has been running for some time and tracking both the requirements and 
> the lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that this 
> provides a good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some 
> elements might change.
> 
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to become a WG draft.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:04:17 +0000
Message-ID: <0a8001c805f0$22c11bf0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
Cc: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:03:39 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
>> Vasseur I-D?
> 
> In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
> description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.

I'm not trying to fight JP's battles for him.
Just trying to find out whether we have two problem spaces or one.

I think the abstract of his I-D is relatively clear:

   This document proposes MP-BGP protocol extension so as to convey
   Traffic Engineering Link characterictics of PE (Provider Edge) - CE
   (Customer Edge) links in order to extend the visibility of the
   Traffic Engineering Database to those links.  This can then be used
   to more efficiently compute CE-to-CE Traffic Engineering Label

A




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:55:15 +0000
Message-Id: <200710031851.l93Iptn72353@magenta.juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
cc: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <49548.1191437515.1@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:51:55 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

Adrian,

> Yakov,
> 
> >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
> >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 
> >> 03)
> >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> >
> > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).
> 
> I ain't proposing nothin'
> 
> > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.
> 
> That is probably a good reason to start with.
> 
> >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite 
> >> worrying.
> >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
> >
> > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its 
> applicability to L1VPNs?

No, as we are not in the business of predicting the future and therefore
not in the business of limiting future applications of the I-D.

> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
> Vasseur I-D?

In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.

Yakov.



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:48:55 +0000
Message-ID: <4703D57E.8080606@grotto-networking.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:46:38 -0700
From: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani <otani@kddilabs.jp>, ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" <miyazaki.keiji@jp.fujitsu.com>, "Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC 
networks. In addition, it seems that  these "global semantic" labels can 
be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information 
can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment 
problem.

For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a 
fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize  this 
port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range 
specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.

Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be 
used. In 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt 
we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel 
spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence 
with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing 
Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to 
fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.

Regards

Greg B.

Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by 
> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>
> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is 
> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a 
> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
---snip---
> ===
> Section 5.2
> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits 
> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find 
> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating 
> another bit to the CS field.
> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it 
> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is 
> not so improbable.
> So, how about...
>       0                   1                   2                   3
>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>      |Grid |  C.S. |S|    Reserved   |               n               |
>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> ===
>
--snip--
> The two things you do need in this section are:
> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
>   Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
>   Label can be used.
> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
>   and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
>   Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
>   or do you propose to define a new field value in the
>   Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
>   Generalized Label Object?
> ===
> Section 6.2
> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda 
> availability is best removed from this I-D.
> ===
> Section 7
> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the 
> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to 
> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security 
> model, but you should mention the fact.
> ===
> Section 10
> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
> ===
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
>
>

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:43:07 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Subject: RE: Proposed new working group draft
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:40:37 +0200
Message-ID: <8144761F31F48D43AD53D09F5350E380017D1E85@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com>
Thread-Topic: Proposed new working group draft
Thread-Index: AcgClTHxb410ZBk6TR2nVM/8AsB+IADRthKQ
From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>

adrian  =20

- support -=20

-d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed last=20
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have=20
> more or less=20
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this=20
> subject, we need to=20
> look for a solutions I-D.
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt=20
> has been running for some time and tracking both the=20
> requirements and the=20
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that=20
> this provides a=20
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20
> change.
>=20
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:43:04 +0000
Message-ID: <029601c805d3$f0dd6a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
Cc: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:41:52 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yakov,

>> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 
>> 03)
>> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
>
> Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).

I ain't proposing nothin'

> For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.

That is probably a good reason to start with.

>> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite 
>> worrying.
>> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
>
> As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.

Two questions:

1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its 
applicability to L1VPNs?

2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the 
Vasseur I-D?

Thanks,
Adrian 





Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:21:12 +0000
Message-Id: <200710031519.l93FJTn14985@magenta.juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>, "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <5917.1191424769.1@juniper.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:19:29 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

Adrian,

> Hi Yakov,
> 
> Could you explain why we would want to adopt 
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) 
> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt

Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).

For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will 
be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.

> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. 
> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. 

As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.

> Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and 
> if that is a representative application then your scope is identical 
> to the Vasseur draft.

Yakov.

> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
> To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
> <dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
> <dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
> Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
> document
> 
> 
> > Deborah and Adrian,
> >
> > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> > in the latest version.
> >
> > Yakov.
> >
> > 
> 
> 



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:36:40 +0000
Message-ID: <47039874.4080600@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto <shiomoto.kohei@lab.ntt.co.jp>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Dimitri Papadimitriou <Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be>, Jean-Louis Le Roux <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>, Martin Vigoureux <Martin.Vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>
Subject: Re: Last call completed on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Adrian

Thank you for your comments. We will update the ids on reqs and eval for 
mln according to ITU's comments and yours. I think that we can start 
with the mln solution id now.

Let me respond to your comments in short...

Regarding the renaming the virual TE-link, I would prefer keep it 
because RFC4397 already defines it.

Regarding the adaptaion capabilities in place of switching capabilities, 
we will clarify it. We will consider the solution in revising the 
solution i-d.

Regarding the virtual node model, it might be a solution to represent 
the inter-layer connectivity. We will consider it in revising the 
solution i-d.

Anyway we will revise the ids.
Thanks,
Kohei

> Hi,
> 
> Working group last call completed on 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and 
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt with a few comments to consider.
> 
> The question was raised about the naming of "virtual TE links." It was 
> suggested that "potential" be considered as a more appropriate word, 
> partly because of the existing overload of "virtual" in various 
> contexts, and partly to tie in with the ASON use of terminology. Could 
> the authors please think about this and propose a resolution.
> 
> We also received some comments from the ITU-T in their liaison 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/368/. They raise some issues for 
> our consideration and the authors need to address these points so that 
> they can update the I-D if necessary, and so we can respond to the ITU-T 
> as necessary.
> 
> Adaptation
> - They suggest that we should include a definition of Adaptation.
> - They suggest advertising the adaptation capability/ies of a link in 
> place of the switching capabilities. I am confused by this because I 
> would have thought that both pieces of information are needed. It may be 
> that the ITU-T are assuming that the technology layer is known a priori. 
> It is certainly the case that multiple switching or adaptation 
> capabilities should be able to be advertised on a single link, and I 
> think this is in the I-Ds, but maybe it needs clarification.
> - Abstract representations of layers and adaptations may be 
> advantageous. Although this might be a solution-specific issue, if there 
> are requirements they should be drawn out.
> 
> Virtual Node
> The ITU-T suggests that the virtual node model might be applied as a 
> solution architecture alongside the virtual links. Maybe the 
> requirements draft could include some comments on this.
> 
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D
NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories
3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan
Phone +81 422 59 4402    Fax +81 422 59 3787




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:12:46 +0000
Message-ID: <01bc01c805a5$a2f691b0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>, <yakov@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:57:57 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Yakov,

Could you explain why we would want to adopt 
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03) 
rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt

The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying. 
Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. Your 
introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and if that is 
a representative application then your scope is identical to the Vasseur 
draft.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yakov Rekhter" <yakov@juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" 
<dbrungard@att.com>; <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>; "Don Fedyk" 
<dwfedyk@nortel.com>; <yakov@juniper.net>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG 
document


> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> in the latest version.
>
> Yakov.
>
> 





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Message-ID: <406e32c00710021933k2077d317r8441ae43407e3038@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" <acee@redback.com>, "OSPF List" <ospf@ietf.org>,  "Vishwas Manral" <vishwas@ipinfusion.com>,  "Alan Davey" <Alan.Davey@dataconnection.com>,  "CCAMP List" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
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Hello Mach,

Just be curious about the following:
>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;

What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.

Regards,
Peng



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:24:09 +0000
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: "Jeroen van der Ham" <vdham@science.uva.nl>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: swallow@cisco.com
Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length 
From: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:21:52 -0400
Message-Id: <20071002202152.E19863DD64A@dhcp-161-44-113-216.cisco.com>
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> > I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> > length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> > problems.
> 
> Exactly.

Actually 4 bytes or more (more than 3 bytes).

...George

========================================================================
George Swallow             Cisco Systems                  (978) 936-1398
                           1414 Massachusetts Avenue
                           Boxborough, MA 01719



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Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:15:24 +0000
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Jeroen van der Ham" <vdham@science.uva.nl>, <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:14:22 +0100
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Hi Jeroen,

> The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:
>
>>    The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
>>    (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero).  The
>>    TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
>>    length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
>>    but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets).  Nested TLVs
>>    are also 32-bit aligned.  For example, a one-byte value would have
>>    the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
>>    to the end of the value portion of the TLV.  Unrecognized types are
>>    ignored.

I guess you are quoting from RFC4970 that repeats and adds to the tex in 
RFC3630?

> To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
> and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.

Sub-TLVs form part of the V of the parent TLV.

> The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
> length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
> of the (enclosing) TLV?

Hah! Nice question.

Consider that the L field has two purposes.
1. To define the actual length of the V field
2. To allow a parser to step over the whole TLV without decoding it

In order to perform the second, the operation on a TLV with multiple 
sub-TLVs it is essential that the L of the parent TLV includes all of the 
padding implicit in the sub-TLVs.

> I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> problems.

Exactly.

> I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
> worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
> this issue.

If you were quoting text from the OSPF RFCs, you might want to take this to 
the OSPF list for confirmation.

Cheers,
Adrian 





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Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:39:39 +0000
Message-ID: <47026588.7000002@science.uva.nl>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:36:40 +0200
From: Jeroen van der Ham <vdham@science.uva.nl>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728)
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To:  ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
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Hello,

The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:

>    The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
>    (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero).  The
>    TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
>    length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
>    but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets).  Nested TLVs
>    are also 32-bit aligned.  For example, a one-byte value would have
>    the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
>    to the end of the value portion of the TLV.  Unrecognized types are
>    ignored.

To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.
The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
of the (enclosing) TLV?

I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
problems.

I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
this issue.

Jeroen.




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 07:28:21 +0000
Message-ID: <4701F257.3040207@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:25:11 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Greg Bernstein <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
CC: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, ccamp <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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Hi Greg,

please see below

best regards,

martin

Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi Igor, see comments below.
> 
> Igor Bryskin wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>>  
>>
>> I believe the draft is very useful.
>>
> --> Thanks!
>>
>>  
>>
>> I have a couple of questions comments:
>>
>>  
>>
>> 1. Section : 4.4. Traffic Grooming: Combining WSON and Higher Layer Network 
>>
>>    Optimization
>>
>>  
>>
>> How the problem of grooming of higher layer network traffic over 
>> optical trails is any different from the problem of traffic grooming 
>> in TDM (e.g. VC12 over VC4)? I mean this is a general problem of 
>> inter-layer relationship. I suggest moving all higher layer network 
>> considerations out of scope of the draft and focusing on specifics of 
>> the OCh layer.
>>
> --> Some of my co-authors agree with you on moving this section out.  
> The reason that I put it in was that the optical "Traffic Grooming" 
> problem has received a fair amount of attention in the research and 
> general technical literature and is also a driver for the use of ROADMs 
> (optical bypass).  I guess in general we've got the following 
> inter-related problems: (a) virtual network topology design, (b) lower 
> layer connection routing, (c) higher layer flow routing. In our case (b) 
> is the RWA problem, which is fairly difficult in its own right. I guess 
> I should look closely at the MLN/MRN work and see if a specific example 
> that includes RWA is mentioned.  If so then I'd feel fine removing this 
> section from the document.

Optical considerations are not explicitly covered in MRN/MLN documents
anymore, but we still talk a lot about virtual topologies in
multi-layer/region contexts.
Optical considerations were covered at the very beginning of these 
documents, at the time they were called HPN (Hybrid Photonic Networks).
http://www.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vigoureux-ccamp-gmpls-architecture-hpn-00




Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:09:12 +0000
Message-Id: <200710011906.l91J6cn44824@magenta.juniper.net>
To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" <dbrungard@att.com>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" <hbrahim@nortel.com>, "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>, yakov@juniper.net
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
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Content-ID: <79749.1191265598.1@juniper.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:06:38 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>

Deborah and Adrian,

On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
in the latest version.

Yakov.




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Delivery-date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:17:36 +0000
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88"
Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:16:08 +0200
Message-ID: <0428AC48A879ED46A94F39D5665DF684B2BDD4@esealmw110.eemea.ericsson.se>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Thread-Index: AcgCGPrm079Irid9SsOzH8bH1pbmZQCI4MAw
From: "Diego Caviglia" <diego.caviglia@ericsson.com>
To: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>, "Igor Bryskin" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Igor hi Greg,

                      I think this is a very interesting discussion. =20

=20

IMHO the point Igor raised is on the boundary between network planning =
and circuit provisioning I mean the decision to have a node with/without =
conversion capability is a planning decision, likely dependent by a =
given traffic forecast and a physical topology.  Moreover the same =
consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that an LSP =
needs 3R due to optical impairments.

=20

A possible solution to say that loopback are not allowed and thus if an =
LSP for some reason needs a loopback the PCE must return an error.  This =
information can be used to improve the wavelength conversion/3R =
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter.  The other solution is to allow loopback. =20

=20

Best Regards


Diego

=20

 =20

=20

________________________________

From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Greg Bernstein
Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 23.44
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...

=20

Very good catch Igor. See in line.

Igor Bryskin wrote:=20

--snip--=20






=20

2. Considering wavelength conversion inevitably brings to the problem of =
looped paths, which is a completely new ball game in path computation, =
and I am surprised that the issue was never mentioned in the draft.

--> How is this different from the "looping" that can occur with a TDM =
multiplexer in a drop and continue mode?  Also in these two circuit =
cases (TDM, and optical) do we have the same danger as in the packet =
case where looping traffic can greatly degrade other flows.  Was there =
some general looping concerns already published for GMPLS with respect =
to circuits? =20

=20

IB>> There is a profound difference. I am not talking here about =
accidental looping, rather about deliberate looping: if some nodes can =
perform wavelength conversion while others can not, then you will want =
to route the connection to one or several conversion points and after =
that get it back on the main path. In other words you will deliberately =
request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS RSVP-TE to =
signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of work =
for both PCE and RSVP.

--> I thought you were worried about accidental loops.  I didn't even =
consider what you are talking about "looping", but would RSVP processing =
get fouled up? It sure looks like a loop at the "node" level.=20
In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could definitely be =
repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. This is =
definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM case.  =
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!



=20

Cheers,=20

Igor

=20

________________________________

--snip--



--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Igor hi =
Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I think this is a
very interesting discussion. =A0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>IMHO the point Igor raised is on =
the
boundary between network planning and circuit provisioning I mean the =
decision to
have a node with/without conversion capability is a planning decision, =
likely
dependent by a given traffic forecast and a physical topology. =
=A0Moreover the
same consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that =
an LSP
needs 3R due to optical impairments.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A possible solution to say that =
loopback
are not allowed and thus if an LSP for some reason needs a loopback the =
PCE must
return an error. =A0This information can be used to improve the =
wavelength conversion/3R
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter.=A0
The other solution is to allow loopback.=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Best =
Regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
Diego<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<div>

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<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight=
:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org =
[mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Greg Bernstein<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> venerd=EC 28 =
settembre 2007
23.44<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Igor Bryskin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> ccamp; =
pce@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Pce] Some =
key issues
with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Very good catch Igor. See in line.<br>
<br>
Igor Bryskin wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><u1:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
name=3D"PersonName"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u5:p></u5:p><u5:p>&nbsp;</u5:p></sp=
an></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2. Considering wavelength =
conversion
inevitably brings to the problem of looped paths, which is a completely =
new ball
game in path computation, and I am surprised that the issue was never =
mentioned
in the draft.</span></font><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--&gt; How is this different from the
&quot;looping&quot; that can occur with a TDM multiplexer in a drop and
continue mode?&nbsp; Also in these two circuit cases (TDM, and optical) =
do we
have the same danger as in the packet case where looping traffic can =
greatly
degrade other flows.&nbsp; Was there some general looping concerns =
already
published for GMPLS with respect to circuits?&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<u1:p></u1:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>IB&gt;&gt; There is a profound =
difference.
I am not talking here about accidental looping, rather about deliberate
looping: if some nodes can perform wavelength conversion while others =
can not,
then you will want to route the connection to one or several conversion =
points
and after that get it back on the main path. In other words you will
deliberately request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS =
RSVP-TE
to signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of =
work for
both PCE and RSVP.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--&gt; I thought you were worried about =
accidental
loops.&nbsp; I didn't even consider what you are talking about
&quot;looping&quot;, but would RSVP processing get fouled up? It sure =
looks
like a loop at the &quot;node&quot; level. <br>
In the ERO the &quot;node&quot; subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could =
definitely be
repeated, but with a different &quot;Label ERO&quot; subobject appended. =
This
is definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM =
case.&nbsp;
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><u1:p></u1:p><u1:p>&nbsp;</u1:p></sp=
an></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers, =
<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Igor<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p>=
</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&nbsp;<u5:p></u5:p></span></font><u1=
:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--snip--<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<pre><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) =
573-2237<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre></div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88--



Envelope-to: ccamp-data@psg.com
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Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:44:05 +0200
Message-ID: <1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D1DB2@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Thread-Index: AcgCCFAxVs5keUR2TRWXpXsR0QfyhgCFxxNw
From: "Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)" <giomarti@cisco.com>
To: "Greg Bernstein" <gregb@grotto-networking.com>
Cc: "ccamp" <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>
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Hi Greg,
=20



________________________________

	From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
	Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 21.47
	To: Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)
	Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
	Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
=09
=09
	Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read.  Looks like you caught some =
problems with the text.  See below for comments.
=09
	Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20

		Hi Greg,
		=20
		Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a =
while so yes, it's interesting. Before going on specific issue I would =
have some question/clarification regarding the draft itself.=20
		=20
		=20
		* Within Abstract and the following.
		You don't talk about Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing =
or understated somewhere?

	-->Whoops.  We were trying to find a more general term to include both =
ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a completely =
symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases.  =
Talked with some equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that =
seemed to incorporate both so we made sure the model could deal with =
both sparse and dense potential connectivity. Diego had some terminology =
ideas but lately his e-mails have been bouncing back to me.  Any =
suggestions are appreciated, but we are including both ROADM and OXCs.=20
	=20

My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and picture =
used later on the draft. At  least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a =
matter of terminology.

=20

		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.1 where you state:=20
		"A fixed mapping between the=20
		GMPLS label space and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "
		Does it implies a sort of network level label space? How relate with =
usual local label significance?

	--> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and wavelengths/lambda, =
just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the ITU-T G.707 "S, U, K, L, M =
" identification of SDH time slots to a label format in RFC4606 and =
again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time slot =
identification into a technology specific label format.  In RFC3471 for =
lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning attached. =
Every network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in =
a different way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 =
lead and using the ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a =
fixed association between labels and lambdas just like between labels =
and TDM time slots in the SDH/ODU case.
=09
	This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In the wavelength =
switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or absence of =
wavelength converters.=20
	=20

Ok. Local significance  but global semantic (as pointed out by Adrian in =
a previous mail).=20


		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.4 Wavelength Converters=20
		"Current or envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : ..."
		Could we think to a description/model for wavelength converter that is =
technology agnostic? Simply something like: full conversion capability, =
partial conversion capability with some constrains, and may be others.

	--> The difference, between the all optical techniques and the OEO =
based techniques makes that difficult.
=09

		=20
		=20
		* Section 3.4. the following:=20
		"4. Wavelength converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =

		based on the modulation format and transmission speed"=20
		Not clear to me the type of restriction here when OEO happens... =
probably I'm missing what you mean here.

	--> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter would be =
build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and =
the symbol rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will be fairly independent of these issues (except when we =
look at impairment factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be =
more signal specific than the all optical.=20
	=20

ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a general model as =
you marked  with TBD.=20


		=20
		=20
		* Section 4.1 when you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:
		"Lightpath connection duration has typically been thought of as=20
		approximately three time frames: "=20
		and the following you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.
		Why there's a need of this classification? When you us Short/long is =
compared to what?

	--> In most of the research literature and in optimization practice =
different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static (or =
psuedo static cases).  In MPLS there is minimum interference routing =
optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of =
connections.  In the RWA literature there is a similar differentiation.  =
Exactly what information could be sent to help PCE differentiate I'm not =
sure. In the case of static, batch optimization we can just use the =
existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an individual =
lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want to put into optimize it.=20
	=20

ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for the moment.
=20
Thanks,
Giovanni


		=20
		=20
		minor typo on your mail below: point (c) rfc4328 (not 4238) right?

	--> Yes.  The G.709 signaling extensions RFC.
=09

		=20
		Thanks,
		Giovanni

	=09
		=20

________________________________

			From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
			Sent: gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42
			To: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
			Subject: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
		=09
		=09
			Hi folks, I haven't seen too many comments on our draft "Framework =
for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength Switched Optical Networks" ( =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-swit=
ched-01.txt). So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial =
issues that the draft brings up.=20
		=09
			(a) The draft brings up models for the following WDM network =
elements:
		=09

			1.	WDM links=20
			2.	Optical transmitters
			=09
			3.	Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
			4.	ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20

			    For items (3) and (4) we are taking the modeling lead rather than =
some other SDO.  And for ROADMs, in particular, we going beyond the =
classic ITU-T "fabric" model (M.3100) which has been the mainstay of any =
connection oriented switch (TDM, ATM, MPLS).
		=09
			(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but three) different =
computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and PCE protocols:
		=09

			1.	A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
			2.	Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a different =
PCE computes the wavelength assignment=20
			3.	A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is accomplished =
in a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set objects)=20

			    Do we really need all three models?
		=09
			(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section and Optical =
Channels.  RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for G.709  (Optical =
Transport Network) control.  Weren't we finished with all this optical =
stuff years ago?
		=09
			I'd like to think the draft answers some of these questions.  I also =
think that network element models and the process models are important =
enough to warrant this separate framework document.  Your opinions are =
solicited.
		=09
			Regards
		=09
			Greg B.
		=09
			--=20
			=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
			Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
		=09
			   =20


	--=20
	=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
	Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=09


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Greg,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein=20
  [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> venerd=EC 28 =
settembre=20
  2007 21.47<BR><B>To:</B> Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
ccamp;=20
  pce@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Pce] Some key issues with =
Wavelength=20
  Switched Optical Networks...<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read.&nbsp; Looks like =
you caught=20
  some problems with the text.&nbsp; See below for =
comments.<BR><BR>Giovanni=20
  Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=3DGENERATOR>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Hi=20
Greg,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">Sorry for the=20
    delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a while so yes, =
it's=20
    interesting. Before going on specific issue I would have some=20
    question/clarification regarding the draft itself. =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>* =
Within Abstract=20
    and the following.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>You =
don't talk about=20
    Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing or understated=20
    somewhere?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt;Whoops.&nbsp; We were trying to find a more general term to =
include=20
  both ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a =
completely=20
  symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone=20
  with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases.&nbsp; Talked =
with some=20
  equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that seemed to =
incorporate both=20
  so we made sure the model could deal with both sparse and dense =
potential=20
  connectivity. Diego had some terminology ideas but lately his e-mails =
have=20
  been bouncing back to me.&nbsp; Any suggestions are appreciated, but =
we are=20
  including both ROADM and OXCs.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and =
picture=20
used later on the draft. At&nbsp; least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general=20
case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a matter of=20
terminology.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.1=20
    where you state: </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"A fixed=20
    mapping between the </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>GMPLS label space=20
    and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Does =
it implies a=20
    sort of network level label space? How relate with usual local label =

    significance?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; This mapping gives a mapping between labels and=20
  wavelengths/lambda, just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the =
ITU-T G.707=20
  "S, U, K, L, M " identification of SDH time slots to a label format in =
RFC4606=20
  and again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time =
slot=20
  identification into a technology specific label format.&nbsp; In =
RFC3471 for=20
  lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning =
attached. Every=20
  network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in a =
different=20
  way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 lead and =
using the=20
  ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a fixed association =
between=20
  labels and lambdas just like between labels and TDM time slots in the =
SDH/ODU=20
  case.<BR><BR>This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In =
the=20
  wavelength switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or =
absence=20
  of wavelength converters.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Ok. Local significance&nbsp; but global semantic (as pointed =
out by=20
Adrian in a previous mail).</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.4=20
    Wavelength Converters </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>"Current or=20
    envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : =
..."</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Could we&nbsp;<SPAN=20
    class=3D312013122-27092007>think to </SPAN>a description/model for =
wavelength=20
    converter that is technology agnostic?&nbsp;<SPAN=20
    class=3D312013122-27092007>S</SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D312013122-27092007>imply=20
    s</SPAN>omething like: full conversion capability, partial =
conversion=20
    capability with some constrains, and may be=20
  others.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>--&gt; The difference, between the =
all=20
  optical techniques and the OEO based techniques makes that =
difficult.<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">* Section 3.4.=20
    the following: </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"4. Wavelength=20
    converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">based on the=20
    modulation format and transmission speed" </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Not =
clear to me the=20
    type of restriction here when OEO happens... probably I'm missing =
what you=20
    mean here.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter =
would be=20
  build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares=20
  about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and the =
symbol=20
  rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will=20
  be fairly independent of these issues (except when we look at =
impairment=20
  factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be more signal specific =
than=20
  the all optical.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ok&nbsp;more clear now, although it would be nice having&nbsp;a =
general=20
model as you marked&nbsp; with TBD.</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>* =
Section 4.1 when=20
    you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">"Lightpath=20
    connection duration has typically been thought of as =
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New">approximately=20
    three time frames: " </FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>and =
the following=20
    you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Why =
there=92s a need=20
    of this classification? When you us Short/long is compared to=20
    what?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>--&gt; In most of the research literature and in optimization =
practice=20
  different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static =
(or=20
  psuedo static cases).&nbsp; In MPLS there is minimum interference =
routing=20
  optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could=20
  apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of=20
  connections.&nbsp; In the RWA literature there is a similar=20
  differentiation.&nbsp; Exactly what information could be sent to help =
PCE=20
  differentiate I'm not sure. In the case of static, batch optimization =
we can=20
  just use the existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an =
individual=20
  lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the=20
  connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want=20
  to put into optimize it.<SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for =
the=20
moment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D125193711-01102007><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Giovanni</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D312013122-27092007><FONT=20
    face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>minor typo on your mail below: point =
(c) rfc4328=20
    (not 4238) right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>--&gt; Yes.&nbsp; =
The G.709=20
  signaling extensions RFC.<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  =
cite=3Dmid:1F2FBF50FB955441A11316BAE835CED4042D142B@xmb-ams-338.emea.cisc=
o.com=20
  type=3D"cite">
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2>Giovanni</FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft>
      <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
      <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Greg Bernstein [<A=20
      class=3Dmoz-txt-link-freetext=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com">mailto:gregb@grotto-networkin=
g.com</A>]=20
      <BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42<BR><B>To:</B> =
ccamp; <A=20
      class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
      href=3D"mailto:pce@ietf.org">pce@ietf.org</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Pce] Some=20
      key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical=20
      Networks...<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi folks, I haven't seen too many =
comments=20
      on our draft "Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength =
Switched=20
      Optical Networks" ( <A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelen=
gth-switched-01.txt"=20
      =
moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernst=
ein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt</A>).=20
      So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial issues =
that the=20
      draft brings up. <BR><BR>(a) The draft brings up models for the =
following=20
      WDM network elements:<BR>
      <OL>
        <LI>WDM links=20
        <LI>Optical transmitters<BR>
        <LI>Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
        <LI>ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20
      </LI></OL>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For items (3) and (4) we are taking =
the=20
      modeling lead rather than some other SDO.&nbsp; And for ROADMs, in =

      particular, we going beyond the classic ITU-T "fabric" model =
(M.3100)=20
      which has been the mainstay of any connection oriented switch =
(TDM, ATM,=20
      MPLS).<BR><BR>(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but =
three)=20
      different computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and =
PCE=20
      protocols:<BR>
      <OL>
        <LI>A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
        <LI>Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a =
different PCE=20
        computes the wavelength assignment=20
        <LI>A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is =
accomplished in=20
        a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set =
objects)=20
      </LI></OL>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we really need all three=20
      models?<BR><BR>(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section =
and=20
      Optical Channels.&nbsp; RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for=20
      G.709&nbsp; (Optical Transport Network) control.&nbsp; Weren't we =
finished=20
      with all this optical stuff years ago?<BR><BR>I'd like to think =
the draft=20
      answers some of these questions.&nbsp; I also think that network =
element=20
      models and the process models are important enough to warrant this =

      separate framework document.&nbsp; Your opinions are=20
      solicited.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Greg B.<BR><PRE =
class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

    </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature =
cols=3D"72">--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237

</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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