From gregb@grotto-networking.com Sun Nov 1 08:28:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF363A68E0 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:28:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1u-S6rEoY6X1 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail14c40.carrierzone.com (mail14c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.154]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14AC33A68CD for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:28:32 -0800 (PST) X-Authenticated-User: gregb.grotto-networking.com Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.133] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail14c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nA1GSle3010226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:28:54 GMT Message-ID: <4AEDB73D.5090904@grotto-networking.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:28:46 -0800 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lou Berger References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030101000108090609010303" Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:28:34 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030101000108090609010303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lou and Richard, I think a related example that came up in a discussion at a previous CCAMP was of identifying a specific regenerator or wavelength converter used at a particular node. I would think that there could be a "tight binding" between a regenerator or wavelength converter and the laser. In the latest "compatibility draft " and updated "signaling draft " we start to identify extensions for specifying regeneration at a particular node via additional signaling attributes. We initially kept this stuff separate from the label, but that was mainly to preserve the notion of wavelengths as labels. Best Regards Greg Lou Berger wrote: > Richard, > > Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro or ero > that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, how does a node > know which laser the label corresponds to when all lasers in the system > are tunable? > > Thanks, > Lou > > On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >> sorry for the lag. >> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you can't >> do and your proposed change? >> thanks, >> Richard. >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger > > wrote: >> >> Authors, >> Have you given any additional thought on the repesentation of >> tunable >> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what is currently in >> the draft? The current text is: >> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >> operation. >> >> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented a specific >> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that allocates the >> label and resource. Such unique identification is important/required >> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current definition works >> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a single fiber. But, >> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a resource on a node >> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node supports multiple >> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a particular output >> interface. >> >> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique >> resource identification in the context of your draft? >> >> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this critical point, and >> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like to discuss >> off-line. >> >> Much thanks, >> Lou >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------030101000108090609010303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lou and Richard,
I think a related example that came up in a discussion at a previous CCAMP was of identifying a specific regenerator or wavelength converter used at a particular node. I would think that there could be a "tight binding" between a regenerator or wavelength converter and the laser.
In the latest  "compatibility draft" and updated "signaling draft" we start to identify extensions for specifying regeneration at a particular node via additional signaling attributes.

We initially kept this stuff separate from the label, but that was  mainly to preserve the notion of wavelengths as labels.

Best Regards

Greg

Lou Berger wrote: 
Richard,

Okay let me try again with a specific case.  If I have an rro or ero
that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, how does a node
know which laser the label corresponds to when all lasers in the system
are tunable?

Thanks,
Lou

On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote:
  
sorry for the lag.
do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you can't
do and your proposed change?
thanks,
Richard.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
<mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:

    Authors,
           Have you given any additional thought on the repesentation of
    tunable
    lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what is currently in
    the draft? The current text is:
      If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning
      wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching
      operation.

    In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented a specific
    resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that allocates the
    label and resource.  Such unique identification is important/required
    for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current definition works
    fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a single fiber.  But,
    the defined global label will not uniquely identify a resource on a node
    when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node supports multiple
    fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a particular output
    interface.

    What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique
    resource identification in the context of your draft?

    I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this critical point, and
    see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like to discuss
    off-line.

    Much thanks,
    Lou


    _______________________________________________
    CCAMP mailing list
    CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


    
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


  

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
--------------030101000108090609010303-- From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Sun Nov 1 20:02:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59BA3A6856 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:02:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E9ytwiYvJFOy for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f192.google.com (mail-yx0-f192.google.com [209.85.210.192]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30C93A6781 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by yxe30 with SMTP id 30so5007661yxe.29 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:03:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=kWFidZKktRNFHZh14vntXWNIKGsz7UcoEKvp71rYfI8=; b=Ohe3xDZsnDtNNR3WhpQXNJFXEQvrVzLHnRCirKpazN+rGAdPhLkuGeZLtWjjRoPfQ9 yNnb+2/eyDjTGXH4BGVa6RGtlxM2b1JC5CY2TY9eAmRhLXrwSlKBbB//HAohAAWZZ6vz 9u0v1bX2WhpkfaaNXNrzThxOKUTRKE+Z8FK50= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=ildpGLkhl/WD+sUtrD2DFmvWxUIzAYpzDzUMGAc4H9lqupSBG/BLbV23717OgwGlA8 Xemi653QFlw6VBLl7ya1mBS/CqHHDRQFlGXFhtUQBlu9SV6f+15+dUak4VQm/TM09Yct cITBHfo12polbXu6v+O8/KQ/5EPesmBRL4Gus= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr7572701yba.12.1257134585537; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:03:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2CC2532E76A04BAAA275693B032C6BCD@your029b8cecfe> References: <2CC2532E76A04BAAA275693B032C6BCD@your029b8cecfe> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:03:05 -0800 Message-ID: <77ead0ec0911012003w24c2581bv7c18927aa7e580b2@mail.gmail.com> From: Vishwas Manral To: Adrian Farrel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alfred_H=CEnes?= Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:02:51 -0000 Hi Adrian, I think the BNF format below is ambiguous as it does not tell which part is repeatetive (only trace or others too): ::= ... If we want to be consistent with the other messages in the RFC it should be: ::= [ ...] However the best representation would be: ::= ::= [ | ] Thanks, Vishwas On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi CCAMP, > > Can I please have your help in resolving an Erratum raised against the LMP > spec RFC 4207. > > You can see the full details at > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&eid=167 > > The essence of the question is: how many objects may be present on a > ? > > The BNF in section 4.1.1 currently implies just one. But the text could be > interpreted to man more than one. > > > While you are looking at this, can you say whether any other messages should > also allow more than one object? > > Many thanks, > Adrian > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Sun Nov 1 20:16:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E583A687F for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:16:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nSIRFzeTS4WA for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f192.google.com (mail-yx0-f192.google.com [209.85.210.192]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61A043A67ED for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by yxe30 with SMTP id 30so5015004yxe.29 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=81u+I5L8ZQBcCr63QJcAkwzFccVXsb3GG9QcEJYuaso=; b=P7qsIjpgFNVBmgQSs8ehOBG5FVZGX5EPi8rWF0W30PZz+gB4uRs7bGfVvefuYnFNkt GUAyOHynO005sikVqn0GVeplWuDMY0LxT3T1TgrkH6xmiWjcCp7a6EV8OyqUXq2affLp Bjs+AOtEW6YhEuP3eKT633wd80NUB2IJD5xAs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aqLeVX72+MVaHUryaeh0IkBdpTfrFvHXyWxZe6qVW0j89Js4yvoEs01FvSbwC/+Luc 2GCFED6ChUacCZ/VYWJngf+lhWARrXsqGQfDA9KKh8lOnLduPVL/Ets5OtugqLGgYk0N DeUQI+5tQejUnm6VUeeJNUpcPgA1qKzDlIr60= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.65.9 with SMTP id n9mr7534263yba.147.1257135391236; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0911012003w24c2581bv7c18927aa7e580b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <2CC2532E76A04BAAA275693B032C6BCD@your029b8cecfe> <77ead0ec0911012003w24c2581bv7c18927aa7e580b2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:16:31 -0800 Message-ID: <77ead0ec0911012016w5ef3a912q72ecc46decf7c8d7@mail.gmail.com> From: Vishwas Manral To: Adrian Farrel Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alfred_H=CEnes?= Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 04:16:16 -0000 Modifying the best BNF format a bit. > Hi Adrian, > > I think the BNF format below is ambiguous as it does not tell which > part is repeatetive (only trace or others too): > > =A0 ::=3D > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ... > > If we want to be consistent with the other messages in the RFC it should = be: > > =A0 ::=3D > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 [ ...] > > > However the best representation would be: > > =A0 ::=3D > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > > =A0 ::=3D [ | ] > > Thanks, > Vishwas > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: >> Hi CCAMP, >> >> Can I please have your help in resolving an Erratum raised against the L= MP >> spec RFC 4207. >> >> You can see the full details at >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D4207&eid=3D167 >> >> The essence of the question is: how many objects may be present = on a >> ? >> >> The BNF in section 4.1.1 currently implies just one. But the text could = be >> interpreted to man more than one. >> >> >> While you are looking at this, can you say whether any other messages sh= ould >> also allow more than one object? >> >> Many thanks, >> Adrian >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >> > From zhangfatai@huawei.com Mon Nov 2 00:07:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6AC28C180 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 00:07:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.241 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.241 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost 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16:06:54 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:06:50 +0800 From: Fatai Zhang To: Vishwas Manral , Adrian Farrel Message-id: <015a01ca5b93$6f088570$704c460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_mOCZfQvYpw74fbnUWIeN7Q)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <2CC2532E76A04BAAA275693B032C6BCD@your029b8cecfe> <77ead0ec0911012003w24c2581bv7c18927aa7e580b2@mail.gmail.com> <77ead0ec0911012016w5ef3a912q72ecc46decf7c8d7@mail.gmail.com> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Alfred_H=CEnes?= Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:07:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 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Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CAA528C1DC for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 02:41:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 75dUpluq2-CM for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 02:41:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from deframx18.softcom.dk (deframx18.softcom.dk [80.237.202.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5678E28C1CE for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 02:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22081 invoked by uid 74); 2 Nov 2009 10:35:44 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by deframx18.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257158131.572352.21350 (Processed in 13.027022 secs); 02 Nov 2009 10:35:44 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by deframx18.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by deframx18.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:35:31 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jonas_M=E5rtensson?= To: Lou Berger Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 11:35:28 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpZYU7MB/DVSCDWS2KOQPJgb1b+qwCRiecg Message-ID: <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:41:09 -0000 Lou, Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are tunable,= why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this locally? Regards, Jonas=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of Lou Berger > Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > To: Richard Rabbat > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP]=20 > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique=20 > resource identification >=20 > Richard, >=20 > Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro=20 > or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document,=20 > how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to=20 > when all lasers in the system are tunable? >=20 > Thanks, > Lou >=20 > On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > > sorry for the lag. > > do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you=20 > > can't do and your proposed change? > > thanks, > > Richard. > >=20 > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger > > wrote: > >=20 > > Authors, > > Have you given any additional thought on the=20 > repesentation of > > tunable > > lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what=20 > is currently in > > the draft? The current text is: > > If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning > > wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > > operation. > >=20 > > In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented=20 > a specific > > resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that=20 > allocates the > > label and resource. Such unique identification is=20 > important/required > > for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current=20 > definition works > > fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a=20 > single fiber. But, > > the defined global label will not uniquely identify a=20 > resource on a node > > when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node=20 > supports multiple > > fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a=20 > particular output > > interface. > >=20 > > What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique > > resource identification in the context of your draft? > >=20 > > I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this=20 > critical point, and > > see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like=20 > to discuss > > off-line. > >=20 > > Much thanks, > > Lou > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >=20 > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >=20 > = From A.Hoenes@TR-Sys.de Sun Nov 1 23:30:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD7E03A67B2 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:30:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.034 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.783, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eEhhdevkMvvn for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from TR-Sys.de (gateway.tr-sys.de [213.178.172.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992313A6405 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA049206972; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:29:32 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id IAA15152; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:29:23 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <200911020729.IAA15152@TR-Sys.de> To: vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:29:22 +0100 (MEZ) In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0911012003w24c2581bv7c18927aa7e580b2@mail.gmail.com> from Vishwas Manral at Nov "1, " 2009 "08:03:05" pm X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 06:05:01 -0800 Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:30:05 -0000 Vishwas Manral wrote: > Hi Adrian, > > I think the BNF format below is ambiguous as it does not tell which > part is repeatetive (only trace or others too): > > ::= > > ... No! See Section 2.2.5 of RFC 5511, an RFC which expressly was targetted to codify "existing practice" (so it seems legitimate to apply it): 2.2.5. Repetition ... Meaning: May repeat the preceding object, intermediate construct, or construct. Encoding: Three dots ("..."). "" is an intermediate construct; thus it is unambiguously the item being repeated. > If we want to be consistent with the other messages in the RFC it should be: > > ::= > > [ ...] > > However the best representation would be: > > ::= > > > ::= [ | ] > > Thanks, > Vishwas > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi CCAMP, >> >> Can I please have your help in resolving an Erratum raised against the LMP >> spec RFC 4207. >> >> You can see the full details at >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&eid=167 >> >> The essence of the question is: how many objects may be present on a >> ? >> >> The BNF in section 4.1.1 currently implies just one. But the text could be >> interpreted to man more than one. >> >> >> While you are looking at this, can you say whether any other messages should >> also allow more than one object? >> >> Many thanks, >> Adrian >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp Kind regards, Alfred HÎnes. -- +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes | Alfred Hoenes Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys. | | Gerlinger Strasse 12 | Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18 | | D-71254 Ditzingen | E-Mail: ah@TR-Sys.de | +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ From dieter.beller@alcatel-lucent.com Mon Nov 2 06:41:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5231028C0FC for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:41:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Amhc15gR3CnM for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail5.alcatel.fr (smail5.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.27]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B226928C11D for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:41:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.63]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/ICT) with ESMTP id nA2EfVRr021293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:41:31 +0100 Received: from [149.204.106.180] (135.120.57.7) by FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.375.2; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:41:31 +0100 Message-ID: <4AEEEF95.6030101@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:41:25 +0100 From: Dieter Beller Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ah@TR-Sys.de" References: <200911020729.IAA15152@TR-Sys.de> In-Reply-To: <200911020729.IAA15152@TR-Sys.de> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040201030503030207080505" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 155.132.188.13 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , "Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:41:25 -0000 --------------040201030503030207080505 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alfred,

could you please explain why multiple <TRACE> objects for a single
interface are needed? I fail to understand what the application is that
requires this.


Thanks,
Dieter

ah@TR-Sys.de wrote: 
Vishwas Manral wrote:

  
Hi Adrian,

I think the BNF format below is ambiguous as it does not tell which
part is repeatetive (only trace or others too):

   <TraceMonitor Message> ::= <Common Header> <MESSAGE_ID>
                              <LOCAL_INTERFACE_ID>
                              <TRACE> ...
    

No!
See Section 2.2.5 of RFC 5511, an RFC which expressly was targetted
to codify "existing practice" (so it seems legitimate to apply it):

 2.2.5.  Repetition

   ...

   Meaning:
     May repeat the preceding object, intermediate construct, or
     construct.

   Encoding:
     Three dots ("...").

"<TRACE>" is an intermediate construct; thus it is unambiguously
the item being repeated.


  
If we want to be consistent with the other messages in the RFC it should be:

   <TraceMonitor Message> ::= <Common Header> <MESSAGE_ID>
                              <LOCAL_INTERFACE_ID>
                              <TRACE> [<TRACE> ...]

However the best representation would be:

   <TraceMonitor Message> ::= <Common Header> <MESSAGE_ID>
                              <LOCAL_INTERFACE_ID> <TRACE_LIST>

   <TRACE_LIST> ::= <TRACE> [<TRACE_LIST> | ]

Thanks,
Vishwas

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Adrian Farrel <Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com> wrote:
    
Hi CCAMP,

Can I please have your help in resolving an Erratum raised against the LMP
spec RFC 4207.

You can see the full details at
http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&eid=167

The essence of the question is: how many <TRACE> objects may be present on a
<TraceMonitor Message>?

The BNF in section 4.1.1 currently implies just one. But the text could be
interpreted to man more than one.


While you are looking at this, can you say whether any other messages should
also allow more than one <TRACE> object?

Many thanks,
Adrian
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
      


Kind regards,
  Alfred HÎnes.

--
--------------040201030503030207080505 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset="utf-8"; name="Dieter_Beller.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dieter_Beller.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Dieter Beller n:Beller;Dieter org:Alcatel-Lucent, Carrier Product Group;Optics Product Division - Product Unit Cross Connects adr:;;Lorenzstrasse 10;Stuttgart;;70435;Germany email;internet:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com tel;work:+49 711 821-43125 tel;cell:+49 175 7266874 note;quoted-printable:Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG=0D=0A= =0D=0A= Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart =C2=B7 Local Court Stuttgart HRB 4026=0D=0A= Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Michael Oppenhoff=0D=0A= Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Chairman) =C2=B7 Hans-J=C3=B6rg Dau= b =C2=B7=0D=0A= Dr. Rainer Fechner =C2=B7 Peter Kury x-mozilla-html:TRUE version:2.1 end:vcard --------------040201030503030207080505-- From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Mon Nov 2 06:52:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@ietf.org Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 723BA28C13C; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:52:15 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: <20091102145215.723BA28C13C@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:52:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-dppm (Label Switched Path (LSP) Dynamic Provisioning Performance Metrics in Generalized MPLS Networks) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:52:15 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Label Switched Path (LSP) Dynamic Provisioning Performance Metrics in Generalized MPLS Networks ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-11-23. This last call is longer than usual to encompass the time of the face-to-face IETF meeting. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-dppm-10.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=17157&rfc_flag=0 From A.Hoenes@TR-Sys.de Mon Nov 2 07:41:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14BB3A6A43 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:41:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.016 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.016 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.765, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id imZMN32RiBTm for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:41:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from TR-Sys.de (gateway.tr-sys.de [213.178.172.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791D83A6A42 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 07:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3.2) id AA052626434; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:35 +0100 Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id QAA15797; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:33 +0100 (MEZ) From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= Message-Id: <200911021540.QAA15797@TR-Sys.de> To: Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:40:33 +0100 (MEZ) In-Reply-To: <4AEEEF95.6030101@alcatel-lucent.com> from Dieter Beller at Nov "2, " 2009 "03:41:25" pm X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 07:46:02 -0800 Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:41:13 -0000 Dieter, Your message almost has been scrubbed as spam at our provider, because of the lack of 'normal' content. ("HTML-only" is one of the most efficient criteria in spam filtering today!) However, I have managed to 'de-HTLMize' the message ... :-) > Hi Alfred, > could you please explain why multiple objects for > a single interface are needed? I fail to understand what the > application is that requires this. > Thanks, > Dieter First of all, I would like to refer you to the public errata report, which -- you might have observed -- is almost 4(!) years old: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&presentation=records I apologize for not having the time to fully re-read RFC 4207 now, due to current overload, but I hope that the reasoning presented in the Errata Report in 2005 is still valid. I do not recall all the details, but I'm quite sure it had not been based on specific application scenarios, but rather on lack of consistency with other parts of the RFC. Please check and let me know if something's wrong there. If there indeed are good arguments against the conclusion in the Errata Note, the quoted other parts of the RFC might need reconsideration/clarification instead. In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_. Below, I have attached the original report once sent to the authors of RFC 4207, which did not solicit a response those days and has been entered later into the new RFC Errata database by busy beavers at the RFC-Ed... Kind regards, Alfred HÎnes. -- +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes | Alfred Hoenes Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys. | | Gerlinger Strasse 12 | Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18 | | D-71254 Ditzingen | E-Mail: ah@TR-Sys.de | +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ -------- begin forwarded message -------- > From: > To: jplang@ieee.org, dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be > Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Message-Id: <200512201701.SAA26759@TR-Sys.de> > Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:01:34 +0100 (MEZ) > Subject: RFC 4207 (LMP SDH Test) Hello, I've been stuck in an apparent inconsistency in the recently published RFC 4207 authored by you. RFC 4207 defines the syntax of the TraceMonitor message in Section 4.1.1, on page 6. Similarly, the TraceMonitorAck and TraceMonitorNack Messages are specified in Sections 4.1.2 and 4.1.3, respectively, on page 8. While the former specifies a single object to appear in a TraceMonitor message, the latter specs uses wording like "all of the TRACE Objects in a TraceMonitor message" or "TRACE object value(s)". IMHO, it makes much sense to indeed allow multiple TRACE Objects (with different trace types, but all related to a single Interface) in a single TraceMonitor Message. To resolve the inconsistency, I therefore propose to submit an Errata Note for RFC 4207 aimed at adapting the syntax specified in section 4.1.1 to the remainder of the specification: ------ cut here ------ RFC 4207, in Section 4.1.1, near the bottom of page 6, specifies: [...] The format of the TraceMonitor message is as follows: ::= It should say: [...] The format of the TraceMonitor message is as follows: ::= ... ------ cut here ------ If you agree with this Errata Note, please forward your consent to the RFC-Ed. [Note: I purposely have inserted the additional line break to emphasize that the repetition is to be applied to only; and I have used the more conventional style of repetition indication, '...', not the ABNF (RFC 4234) style "1*", to remain consistent in style with the basic LMP specification (RFC 4204) and because there is no ref. to RFC 4234 in RFC 4207. You might wish to change these details however, if you prefer. ] Best regards, Alfred HÎnes. -- +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes | Alfred Hoenes Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys. | | Gerlinger Strasse 12 | Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18 | | D-71254 Ditzingen | E-Mail: ah@TR-Sys.de | +------------------------+--------------------------------------------+ -------- end forwarded message -------- From dieter.beller@alcatel-lucent.com Mon Nov 2 08:48:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8C428C129 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:48:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Y7GptahHUXh for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail5.alcatel.fr (smail5.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.27]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB43928C0ED for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 08:48:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.63]) by smail5.alcatel.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/ICT) with ESMTP id nA2Gm4bl004440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:48:04 +0100 Received: from [149.204.106.180] (135.120.57.7) by FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.375.2; Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:48:04 +0100 Message-ID: <4AEF0D3E.8020805@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:47:58 +0100 From: Dieter Beller Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ah@TR-Sys.de" References: <200911021540.QAA15797@TR-Sys.de> In-Reply-To: <200911021540.QAA15797@TR-Sys.de> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070609030006020805090709" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 155.132.188.13 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , "Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:48:05 -0000 --------------070609030006020805090709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alfred, this message is formatted as plain text message ;-) If the issue is: > In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for > TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_. > I would advocate *all singular*, i.e., there's exactly one TRACE object in a TraceMonitor Message and not multiple. Thanks, Dieter ah@TR-Sys.de wrote: > Dieter, > > Your message almost has been scrubbed as spam at our provider, > because of the lack of 'normal' content. ("HTML-only" is one > of the most efficient criteria in spam filtering today!) > However, I have managed to 'de-HTLMize' the message ... :-) > > >> Hi Alfred, >> could you please explain why multiple objects for >> a single interface are needed? I fail to understand what the >> application is that requires this. >> Thanks, >> Dieter >> > > First of all, I would like to refer you to the public errata report, > which -- you might have observed -- is almost 4(!) years old: > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&presentation=records > > I apologize for not having the time to fully re-read RFC 4207 now, > due to current overload, but I hope that the reasoning presented in > the Errata Report in 2005 is still valid. I do not recall all the > details, but I'm quite sure it had not been based on specific > application scenarios, but rather on lack of consistency with other > parts of the RFC. Please check and let me know if something's > wrong there. If there indeed are good arguments against the > conclusion in the Errata Note, the quoted other parts of the RFC > might need reconsideration/clarification instead. > > In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for > TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_. > > Below, I have attached the original report once sent to the > authors of RFC 4207, which did not solicit a response those days > and has been entered later into the new RFC Errata database > by busy beavers at the RFC-Ed... > > > Kind regards, > Alfred HÎnes. > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------070609030006020805090709 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset="utf-8"; name="Dieter_Beller.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dieter_Beller.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Dieter Beller n:Beller;Dieter org:Alcatel-Lucent, Carrier Product Group;Optics Product Division - Product Unit Cross Connects adr:;;Lorenzstrasse 10;Stuttgart;;70435;Germany email;internet:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com tel;work:+49 711 821-43125 tel;cell:+49 175 7266874 note;quoted-printable:Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG=0D=0A= =0D=0A= Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart =C2=B7 Local Court Stuttgart HRB 4026=0D=0A= Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Michael Oppenhoff=0D=0A= Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Chairman) =C2=B7 Hans-J=C3=B6rg Dau= b =C2=B7=0D=0A= Dr. Rainer Fechner =C2=B7 Peter Kury x-mozilla-html:TRUE version:2.1 end:vcard --------------070609030006020805090709-- From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 3 09:39:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805FE3A6A53 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:39:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.003 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.003 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPy2ttg9tOZR for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-154.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-154.bluehost.com [67.222.39.34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A93A3A68E0 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 32358 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 2009 17:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 17:39:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=pzqYgMPBtDWXgYUJkjn+83vdw18NCcnz+B+669PrAZ/t4XH5HfGUxdLLNiUu4DfiDhkV7Rnr/+neL5GKw8JoWurnsWAXhGCzIvxlkL/8j4w8qlhw9j5w+2SScEgr4quZ; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5NM0-0001TI-Me; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:39:37 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:39:55 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jonas_M=E5rtensson?= References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:39:17 -0000 Jonas, A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think it won't matter. But there are cases where it may: - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency or even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and I believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser. Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible. - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this mapping. - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources (e.g., tunable lasers). I believe these are the primary cases. I hope this helps, Lou On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: > Lou, > > Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this locally? > > Regards, > Jonas > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >> To: Richard Rabbat >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >> resource identification >> >> Richard, >> >> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >> >> Thanks, >> Lou >> >> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>> sorry for the lag. >>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>> can't do and your proposed change? >>> thanks, >>> Richard. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >> > wrote: >>> >>> Authors, >>> Have you given any additional thought on the >> repesentation of >>> tunable >>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >> is currently in >>> the draft? The current text is: >>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>> operation. >>> >>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >> a specific >>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >> allocates the >>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >> important/required >>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >> definition works >>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >> single fiber. But, >>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >> resource on a node >>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >> supports multiple >>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >> particular output >>> interface. >>> >>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique >>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>> >>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >> critical point, and >>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >> to discuss >>> off-line. >>> >>> Much thanks, >>> Lou >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CCAMP mailing list >>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >> >> > > > > From gregb@grotto-networking.com Tue Nov 3 09:49:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4C13A6AC7 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:49:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s1cm6wB-bbWy for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail14c40.carrierzone.com (mail14c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.154]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FA53A6AA7 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:49:47 -0800 (PST) X-Authenticated-User: gregb.grotto-networking.com Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.133] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail14c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nA3Ho4D8003615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:50:07 GMT Message-ID: <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:50:01 -0800 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lou Berger References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000207070404010704090409" Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:49:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000207070404010704090409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn't think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. Regards Greg Lou Berger wrote: > Jonas, > A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think it > won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > > - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency or > even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and I > believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser. > Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible. > > - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node > resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, > GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this > mapping. > > - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources > (e.g., tunable lasers). > > I believe these are the primary cases. > > I hope this helps, > Lou > > On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: > >> Lou, >> >> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this locally? >> >> Regards, >> Jonas >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >>> To: Richard Rabbat >>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>> resource identification >>> >>> Richard, >>> >>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Lou >>> >>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>> >>>> sorry for the lag. >>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>>> can't do and your proposed change? >>>> thanks, >>>> Richard. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Authors, >>>> Have you given any additional thought on the >>>> >>> repesentation of >>> >>>> tunable >>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >>>> >>> is currently in >>> >>>> the draft? The current text is: >>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>>> operation. >>>> >>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >>>> >>> a specific >>> >>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >>>> >>> allocates the >>> >>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >>>> >>> important/required >>> >>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >>>> >>> definition works >>> >>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >>>> >>> single fiber. But, >>> >>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >>>> >>> resource on a node >>> >>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >>>> >>> supports multiple >>> >>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >>>> >>> particular output >>> >>>> interface. >>>> >>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique >>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>>> >>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >>>> >>> critical point, and >>> >>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >>>> >>> to discuss >>> >>>> off-line. >>>> >>>> Much thanks, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CCAMP mailing list >>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------000207070404010704090409 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn't think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible.

Regards

Greg

Lou Berger wrote: 
Jonas,
	A very good question!  In the common/general setup case I think it
won't matter.  But there are cases where it may:

- In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to
represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency or
even port.  If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and I
believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is
desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser.
 Even a tunable one.  With the current definition, this isn't possible.

- The more practical/import case is graceful restart.  In certain
restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node
resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to
ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the
information to do the matching.  In all other cases that I know about,
GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this
mapping.

- MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources
(e.g., tunable lasers).

I believe these are the primary cases.

I hope this helps,
Lou

On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote:
  
Lou,

Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this locally?

Regards,
Jonas 

    
-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] 
On Behalf Of Lou Berger
Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02
To: Richard Rabbat
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique 
resource identification

Richard,

Okay let me try again with a specific case.  If I have an rro 
or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, 
how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to 
when all lasers in the system are tunable?

Thanks,
Lou

On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote:
      
sorry for the lag.
do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you 
can't do and your proposed change?
thanks,
Richard.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net 
<mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:

    Authors,
           Have you given any additional thought on the 
        
repesentation of
      
    tunable
    lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what 
        
is currently in
      
    the draft? The current text is:
      If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning
      wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching
      operation.

    In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented 
        
a specific
      
    resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that 
        
allocates the
      
    label and resource.  Such unique identification is 
        
important/required
      
    for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current 
        
definition works
      
    fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a 
        
single fiber.  But,
      
    the defined global label will not uniquely identify a 
        
resource on a node
      
    when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node 
        
supports multiple
      
    fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a 
        
particular output
      
    interface.

    What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique
    resource identification in the context of your draft?

    I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this 
        
critical point, and
      
    see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like 
        
to discuss
      
    off-line.

    Much thanks,
    Lou


    _______________________________________________
    CCAMP mailing list
    CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


        
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


      


    
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


  

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
--------------000207070404010704090409-- From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 3 09:57:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149A728C129 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:57:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id edQ-S3OKBnYf for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-28.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-28.bluehost.com [69.89.17.198]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AF3403A68C3 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 09:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 7509 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 2009 17:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 17:57:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=bL1INdACraTKPh0rlmztkskvErJxRi+pq5Zdv7EPJyt6bDdTFASlWn1IStqfWkSOeUQHIueNEgGvb5FXMuUQhnl1QCQYbWGHloDYXyWAU/nM7e6qRCbuxEDedpWRrh0r; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5NdM-0006ZE-Ru; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 10:57:33 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:57:52 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Bernstein References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> In-Reply-To: <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:57:14 -0000 Greg, In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP attribute is a match. Lou On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind > of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them > with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn't > think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > > Regards > > Greg > > Lou Berger wrote: >> Jonas, >> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think it >> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: >> >> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to >> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency or >> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and I >> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is >> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser. >> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible. >> >> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain >> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node >> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to >> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the >> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, >> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this >> mapping. >> >> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources >> (e.g., tunable lasers). >> >> I believe these are the primary cases. >> >> I hope this helps, >> Lou >> >> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: >> >>> Lou, >>> >>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this locally? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jonas >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >>>> To: Richard Rabbat >>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>>> resource identification >>>> >>>> Richard, >>>> >>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>>> >>>>> sorry for the lag. >>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>>>> can't do and your proposed change? >>>>> thanks, >>>>> Richard. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Authors, >>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the >>>>> >>>> repesentation of >>>> >>>>> tunable >>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >>>>> >>>> is currently in >>>> >>>>> the draft? The current text is: >>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>>>> operation. >>>>> >>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >>>>> >>>> a specific >>>> >>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >>>>> >>>> allocates the >>>> >>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >>>>> >>>> important/required >>>> >>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >>>>> >>>> definition works >>>> >>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >>>>> >>>> single fiber. But, >>>> >>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >>>>> >>>> resource on a node >>>> >>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >>>>> >>>> supports multiple >>>> >>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >>>>> >>>> particular output >>>> >>>>> interface. >>>>> >>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique >>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>>>> >>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >>>>> >>>> critical point, and >>>> >>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >>>>> >>>> to discuss >>>> >>>>> off-line. >>>>> >>>>> Much thanks, >>>>> Lou >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >> >> >> > > -- > =================================================== > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > From anders.gavler@acreo.se Tue Nov 3 10:55:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6041A3A6782 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:55:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0bMZMonoS6y5 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (dkcphmx22.softcom.dk [213.150.41.59]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86AE53A67B3 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 27158 invoked by uid 74); 3 Nov 2009 18:55:39 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257274539.83530.7341 (Processed in 0.360806 secs); 03 Nov 2009 18:55:39 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:55:39 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:55:38 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: Lou Berger , Greg Bernstein Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:55:34 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpcryM4V+nbHUalTrauvRQucYDrugAAwgTQ Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:55:22 -0000 Lou, I still do not get it.=20 As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or transi= ts this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local resources t= he LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder, wavelength,= ports etc).=20 If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a certa= in laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and this in= formation could be stored and used at restart.=20 /Anders =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Lou Berger > Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > To: Greg Bernstein > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Greg, > In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > attribute is a match. >=20 > Lou >=20 > On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > > Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind > > of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > > similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > > attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > > regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them > > with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn'= t > > think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > > > > Regards > > > > Greg > > > > Lou Berger wrote: > >> Jonas, > >> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > it > >> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >> > >> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency o= r > >> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and > I > >> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser= . > >> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible= . > >> > >> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node > >> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, > >> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this > >> mapping. > >> > >> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources > >> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >> > >> I believe these are the primary cases. > >> > >> I hope this helps, > >> Lou > >> > >> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >> > >>> Lou, > >>> > >>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are > tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this > locally? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Jonas > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>> resource identification > >>>> > >>>> Richard, > >>>> > >>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you > >>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>> thanks, > >>>>> Richard. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Authors, > >>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>> > >>>> repesentation of > >>>> > >>>>> tunable > >>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>> > >>>> is currently in > >>>> > >>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning > >>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > >>>>> operation. > >>>>> > >>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>> > >>>> a specific > >>>> > >>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>> > >>>> allocates the > >>>> > >>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>> > >>>> important/required > >>>> > >>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>> > >>>> definition works > >>>> > >>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>> > >>>> single fiber. But, > >>>> > >>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>> > >>>> resource on a node > >>>> > >>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>> > >>>> supports multiple > >>>> > >>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>> > >>>> particular output > >>>> > >>>>> interface. > >>>>> > >>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped uniqu= e > >>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>> > >>>> critical point, and > >>>> > >>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>> > >>>> to discuss > >>>> > >>>>> off-line. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>> Lou > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 3 11:35:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F8B3A6908 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.157 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inMGAS3Mku7g for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-104.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-104.bluehost.com [69.89.22.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C6F63A6903 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22208 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 2009 19:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 19:35:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=auy/K+UgyPbLNdjJOcUZSVxBdKhe6Jj93ZigxqV1a9f45ucmioBSjLSAcGia/VQfmoSqUoy/lp7kpe2BQeclp0hmi9mwV81JBReaJfl7ilUrv1M+wpr5/Rg1fLfA5r7K; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5PAR-0007ZG-Kb; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:35:47 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:36:06 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Gavler References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:35:28 -0000 Anders, See below. On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > Lou, > > I still do not get it. > > As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder, wavelength, ports etc). > How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node? Today that is done using label in ERO. > If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and this information could be stored and used at restart. > So what happens when the node losses all/some state? Lou > /Anders > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Lou Berger >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 >> To: Greg Bernstein >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >> resource identification >> >> Greg, >> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource >> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the >> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP >> attribute is a match. >> >> Lou >> >> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: >>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind >>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put >>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those >>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether >>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them >>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn't >>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> Lou Berger wrote: >>>> Jonas, >>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think >> it >>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: >>>> >>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to >>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency or >>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and >> I >>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is >>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser. >>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible. >>>> >>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain >>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node >>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to >>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the >>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, >>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this >>>> mapping. >>>> >>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources >>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). >>>> >>>> I believe these are the primary cases. >>>> >>>> I hope this helps, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Lou, >>>>> >>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are >> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this >> locally? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Jonas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat >>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>>>>> resource identification >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard, >>>>>> >>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Lou >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> sorry for the lag. >>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? >>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>> Richard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Authors, >>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the >>>>>>> >>>>>> repesentation of >>>>>> >>>>>>> tunable >>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >>>>>>> >>>>>> is currently in >>>>>> >>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: >>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >>>>>>> >>>>>> a specific >>>>>> >>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >>>>>>> >>>>>> allocates the >>>>>> >>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >>>>>>> >>>>>> important/required >>>>>> >>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >>>>>>> >>>>>> definition works >>>>>> >>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >>>>>>> >>>>>> single fiber. But, >>>>>> >>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >>>>>>> >>>>>> resource on a node >>>>>> >>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >>>>>>> >>>>>> supports multiple >>>>>> >>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >>>>>>> >>>>>> particular output >>>>>> >>>>>>> interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped unique >>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >>>>>>> >>>>>> critical point, and >>>>>> >>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >>>>>>> >>>>>> to discuss >>>>>> >>>>>>> off-line. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Much thanks, >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> =================================================== >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> CCAMP mailing list >> CCAMP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > From IBryskin@advaoptical.com Tue Nov 3 11:40:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41DE3A6A4A for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:40:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w3srn5Xd-Aqh for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.advaoptical.com (mail.advaoptical.com [213.70.90.131]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694D33A690D for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com (muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com [10.200.0.15]) by mail.advaoptical.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id nA3Jc8qA015274 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:38:09 +0100 Received: from muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com (muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com) by muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:40:06 +0100 Received: from atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com (172.16.5.27) by muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com (172.20.1.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:40:12 +0100 Received: from atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com ([172.16.5.27]) by atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com ([172.16.5.27]) with mapi; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:40:09 -0500 From: Igor Bryskin To: Anders Gavler , Lou Berger , Greg Bernstein Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 14:39:05 -0500 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpcryM4V+nbHUalTrauvRQucYDrugAAwgTQAAHmtpA= Message-ID: <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:40:05 -0000 Anders, Let me try to explain this. Within a given node there could be multiple way= s how an incoming interface:lambda could be cross-connected with outgoing i= nterface: lambda: a) transparent; b) fixed regeneration; c) tunable regeneration; d) chain of tunable/fixed transponders; e)etc. It is quite possible that a node on its own cannot decide on what is the pr= oper way to build the cross-connect simply because it cannot see the networ= k-wide picture, while a centralized authority (i.e. PCE, NMS) can. For exam= ple, because of optical impairment consideration the signal should be regen= erated on this node with or without wavelength conversion. Note also that i= t is possible that more than one tunable resources with overlapping ranges = are available on a given link, and (in the roadm directionless technology) = the same transponder may be available from more than one links. You should see by now why it is paramount to be able to specify in the ERO = not only link/lambda pairs but also the physical IDs of concrete transponde= rs. This is one reason, amother is, as Lou pointed out, restarts. Think about t= he situation when you restart the node and during restart procedures two LS= Ps are associated with wrong transponders. Then when you delete one LSP you= will bring down unintentionally the other one as well. Hope this helps. Igor =20 -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of A= nders Gavler Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:56 PM To: Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique = resource identification Lou, I still do not get it.=20 As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or transi= ts this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local resources t= he LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder, wavelength,= ports etc).=20 If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a certa= in laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and this in= formation could be stored and used at restart.=20 /Anders =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Lou Berger > Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > To: Greg Bernstein > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Greg, > In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > attribute is a match. >=20 > Lou >=20 > On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > > Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some kind > > of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > > similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > > attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > > regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them > > with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I didn'= t > > think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > > > > Regards > > > > Greg > > > > Lou Berger wrote: > >> Jonas, > >> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > it > >> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >> > >> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency o= r > >> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving (and > I > >> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific laser= . > >> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't possible= . > >> > >> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node > >> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, > >> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct this > >> mapping. > >> > >> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources > >> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >> > >> I believe these are the primary cases. > >> > >> I hope this helps, > >> Lou > >> > >> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >> > >>> Lou, > >>> > >>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are > tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide this > locally? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Jonas > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>> resource identification > >>>> > >>>> Richard, > >>>> > >>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you > >>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>> thanks, > >>>>> Richard. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Authors, > >>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>> > >>>> repesentation of > >>>> > >>>>> tunable > >>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>> > >>>> is currently in > >>>> > >>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning > >>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > >>>>> operation. > >>>>> > >>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>> > >>>> a specific > >>>> > >>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>> > >>>> allocates the > >>>> > >>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>> > >>>> important/required > >>>> > >>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>> > >>>> definition works > >>>> > >>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>> > >>>> single fiber. But, > >>>> > >>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>> > >>>> resource on a node > >>>> > >>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>> > >>>> supports multiple > >>>> > >>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>> > >>>> particular output > >>>> > >>>>> interface. > >>>>> > >>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped uniqu= e > >>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>> > >>>> critical point, and > >>>> > >>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>> > >>>> to discuss > >>>> > >>>>> off-line. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>> Lou > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > > Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 3 12:41:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D2753A6A2A for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:41:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nDCavwLS2t6e for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-125.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-125.bluehost.com [67.222.38.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4565C3A67D3 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9972 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 2009 20:42:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 20:42:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=lY66CK3Jbuk0elQ4nN9Cm9KzdlFxmBYqu06s8jvSNmsOHDCxsPMoVT2CnkFwEp7xTfd9llZB9jjaimJ8lHqPMTsIbqMHUjmVi1YRCAW6ZeDsGYmpEJPLMKclU0wDH9DM; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5QCZ-0000T9-6y; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF095AE.80906@labn.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:42:22 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP , Dan King X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:41:43 -0000 All, An updated (and hopefully final) version of the agenda has been posted to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/ccamp.htm. We'd like to ask that slides be submitted (to the WG chairs and WG secretary) as soon as possible, and strongly encourage submission of slides by Sunday. This will help those whose native language is not English by giving them time to study the slides. Note to presenters: Please name the slides you submit to match your slot's presentation name as listed in the URL above. Much thanks, Lou (and Deborah) From jonas.martensson@acreo.se Tue Nov 3 13:45:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C050A3A67B5 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:45:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.321, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_BLANKS=0.041, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YoSJcasM-deQ for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (dkcphmx22.softcom.dk [213.150.41.59]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BEB3A6767 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11137 invoked by uid 74); 3 Nov 2009 21:46:00 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257284760.428125.4789 (Processed in 0.271345 secs); 03 Nov 2009 21:46:00 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx22.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:46:00 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:46:00 +0100 From: =?utf-8?B?Sm9uYXMgTcOlcnRlbnNzb24=?= To: Igor Bryskin Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:45:47 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpczwgS9s0M/Vq5S+2hpBbQ3ZBRuw== Message-ID: <93C84C56-4A27-42E6-9A5F-266925C2BF99@acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> In-Reply-To: <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: sv-SE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:45:44 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PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KPj4+IERyIEdyZWcgQmVy bnN0ZWluLCBHcm90dG8gTmV0d29ya2luZyAoNTEwKSA1NzMtMjIzNw0KPj4+DQo+Pj4NCj4+IF9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiBDQ0FNUCBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IENDQU1QQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NjYW1wDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IENDQU1QIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBDQ0FNUEBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NjYW1wDQo+ IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IENDQU1Q IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBDQ0FNUEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NjYW1wDQo+DQo= From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 3 15:32:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AFC828C0E9 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:32:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKk6Zwb0RzSD for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-30.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-30.bluehost.com [69.89.17.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9154E28C0E1 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2009 15:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 24178 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 2009 23:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 3 Nov 2009 23:32:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=0YoWAfpXLLvmCr7E9BfXK87+sNDvdp6DAjL2bb8PdXbSIGUMsrHZ5Y6vUmv3B8GDlBlPkI9Ygm8XKh24IC8MQFcdVDN0/qrVyrlMvndlnBcfqeQmtxdf5Ctjfp1EEElC; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5Srf-0007P5-7P; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF0BDAA.3090107@labn.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:32:58 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dieter Beller , "ccamp@ietf.org" References: <200911021540.QAA15797@TR-Sys.de> <4AEF0D3E.8020805@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <4AEF0D3E.8020805@alcatel-lucent.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "ah@TR-Sys.de" , "Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum (including proposed resolution) X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:32:19 -0000 All, I propose that the errata be set to type Editorial and that a note be added stating that the wording "all of the TRACE Objects in a TraceMonitor message" while technically accurate is misleading, and that changing the all plural references to "TRACE Objects" to the singular will eliminate this particular issue. Read on if you're interested in details. Dieter, I concur that only a single should be allowed. The errata quotes two issues. Let's look at each: "all of the TRACE Objects in a TraceMonitor message" While this phrasing certainly implies there may be more than one object, I think everyone will agree that "all" should be read to also cover the singular case. Given this, the phrase is technically accurate, but nonetheless misleading. "TRACE object value(s)". Looking at the object, we see that it includes multiple fields each of which carries a value. If we look at the phrase in context we find: This could be because the trace monitoring requested is not supported or there was an error in the TRACE object value(s). It seems to me there may be an error in any of the fields, so "value(s)" is technically correct. An equivalent phrasing is "an error in any of the fields carried in a received TRACE object". That said, I personally don't see a difference or an issue with the current language. Thank you for the input! Lou On 11/2/2009 11:47 AM, Dieter Beller wrote: > Alfred, > > this message is formatted as plain text message ;-) > > If the issue is: >> In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for >> TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_. >> > I would advocate *all singular*, i.e., there's exactly one TRACE object > in a > TraceMonitor Message and not multiple. > > > Thanks, > Dieter > > ah@TR-Sys.de wrote: >> Dieter, >> >> Your message almost has been scrubbed as spam at our provider, >> because of the lack of 'normal' content. ("HTML-only" is one >> of the most efficient criteria in spam filtering today!) >> However, I have managed to 'de-HTLMize' the message ... :-) >> >> >>> Hi Alfred, >>> could you please explain why multiple objects for >>> a single interface are needed? I fail to understand what the >>> application is that requires this. >>> Thanks, >>> Dieter >>> >> >> First of all, I would like to refer you to the public errata report, >> which -- you might have observed -- is almost 4(!) years old: >> >> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&presentation=records >> >> I apologize for not having the time to fully re-read RFC 4207 now, >> due to current overload, but I hope that the reasoning presented in >> the Errata Report in 2005 is still valid. I do not recall all the >> details, but I'm quite sure it had not been based on specific >> application scenarios, but rather on lack of consistency with other >> parts of the RFC. Please check and let me know if something's >> wrong there. If there indeed are good arguments against the >> conclusion in the Errata Note, the quoted other parts of the RFC >> might need reconsideration/clarification instead. >> >> In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for >> TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_. >> >> Below, I have attached the original report once sent to the >> authors of RFC 4207, which did not solicit a response those days >> and has been entered later into the new RFC Errata database >> by busy beavers at the RFC-Ed... >> >> >> Kind regards, >> Alfred HÎnes. >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From dieter.beller@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Nov 4 02:47:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4AA53A687D for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 02:47:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iiB39zRUgPOE for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 02:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail3.alcatel.fr (smail3.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF5C3A683A for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 02:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.63]) by smail3.alcatel.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/ICT) with ESMTP id nA4AdZap024729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:47:31 +0100 Received: from [149.204.106.180] (135.120.57.7) by FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.375.2; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:46:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4AF15B7B.9020109@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:46:19 +0100 From: Dieter Beller Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lou Berger References: <200911021540.QAA15797@TR-Sys.de> <4AEF0D3E.8020805@alcatel-lucent.com> <4AF0BDAA.3090107@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF0BDAA.3090107@labn.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010803090706030207010507" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 155.132.188.83 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , "ah@TR-Sys.de" , "Adrian.Farrel@huawei.com" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RFC 4207 LMP Erratum (including proposed resolution) X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:47:23 -0000 --------------010803090706030207010507 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lou,

your proposed resolution looks good!


Thanks,
Dieter

Lou Berger wrote: 
All,

I propose that the errata be set to type Editorial and that a note be
added stating that the wording "all of the TRACE Objects in a
TraceMonitor message" while technically accurate is misleading, and that
changing the all plural references to "TRACE Objects" to the singular
will eliminate this particular issue.

Read on if you're interested in details.

Dieter,
	I concur that only a single <TRACE> should be allowed.  The errata
quotes two issues.  Let's look at each:

"all of the TRACE Objects in a TraceMonitor message"

While this phrasing certainly implies there may be more than one object,
I think everyone will agree that "all" should be read to also cover the
singular case.  Given this, the phrase is technically accurate, but
nonetheless misleading.

"TRACE object value(s)".

Looking at the object, we see that it includes multiple fields each of
which carries a value.  If we look at the phrase in context we find:
   This
   could be because the trace monitoring requested is not supported or
   there was an error in the TRACE object value(s).

It seems to me there may be an error in any of the fields, so "value(s)"
is technically correct.  An equivalent phrasing is "an error in any of
the fields carried in a received TRACE object".  That said, I personally
don't see a difference or an issue with the current language.

Thank you for the input!

Lou

On 11/2/2009 11:47 AM, Dieter Beller wrote:
  
Alfred,

this message is formatted as plain text message ;-)

If the issue is:
    
In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for
TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_.
  
      
I would advocate *all singular*, i.e., there's exactly one TRACE object
in a
TraceMonitor Message and not multiple.


Thanks,
Dieter

ah@TR-Sys.de wrote:
    
Dieter,

Your message almost has been scrubbed as spam at our provider,
because of the lack of 'normal' content.  ("HTML-only" is one
of the most efficient criteria in spam filtering today!)
However, I have managed to 'de-HTLMize' the message ...   :-)

 
      
Hi Alfred,
could you please explain why multiple <TRACE> objects for
a single interface are needed? I fail to understand what the
application is that requires this.
Thanks,
Dieter
    
        
First of all, I would like to refer you to the public errata report,
which -- you might have observed -- is almost 4(!) years old:

http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=4207&presentation=records

I apologize for not having the time to fully re-read RFC 4207 now,
due to current overload, but I hope that the reasoning presented in
the Errata Report in 2005 is still valid.  I do not recall all the
details, but I'm quite sure it had not been based on specific
application scenarios, but rather on lack of consistency with other
parts of the RFC.  Please check and let me know if something's
wrong there.  If there indeed are good arguments against the
conclusion in the Errata Note, the quoted other parts of the RFC
might need reconsideration/clarification instead.

In short: either _all_ parts of the RFC should use plural for
TRACE object(s) in a TraceMonitor Message, or _none_.

Below, I have attached the original report once sent to the
authors of RFC 4207, which did not solicit a response those days
and has been entered later into the new RFC Errata database
by busy beavers at the RFC-Ed...


Kind regards,
  Alfred HÎnes.

  
      
------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

--
--------------010803090706030207010507 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset="utf-8"; name="Dieter_Beller.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Dieter_Beller.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Dieter Beller n:Beller;Dieter org:Alcatel-Lucent, Carrier Product Group;Optics Product Division - Product Unit Cross Connects adr:;;Lorenzstrasse 10;Stuttgart;;70435;Germany email;internet:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com tel;work:+49 711 821-43125 tel;cell:+49 175 7266874 note;quoted-printable:Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland AG=0D=0A= =0D=0A= Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart =C2=B7 Local Court Stuttgart HRB 4026=0D=0A= Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Michael Oppenhoff=0D=0A= Board of Management: Alf Henryk Wulf (Chairman) =C2=B7 Hans-J=C3=B6rg Dau= b =C2=B7=0D=0A= Dr. Rainer Fechner =C2=B7 Peter Kury x-mozilla-html:TRUE version:2.1 end:vcard --------------010803090706030207010507-- From anders.gavler@acreo.se Wed Nov 4 10:19:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9FC28C0DB for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:19:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ldWIBHmO3wSh for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:19:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (dkcphmx24.softcom.dk [194.192.15.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702A928C0F6 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10419 invoked by uid 74); 4 Nov 2009 18:19:56 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257358796.776383.28215 (Processed in 0.17679 secs); 04 Nov 2009 18:19:56 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:19:56 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:19:56 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: Lou Berger Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:19:55 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpcvNoSgBo1XSP0Rq2hektIdXr9qwAskG0w Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DEF@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:19:39 -0000 Hi Lou, Are you saying that there is no way to store and/or access this type of inf= ormation in a good enough way and this is the reason why you need it at a r= estart event (re-signalling), or are you saying that you would need it anyw= ay? Cheers, Anders > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] > Sent: den 3 november 2009 20:36 > To: Anders Gavler > Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Anders, > See below. >=20 > On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > > Lou, > > > > I still do not get it. > > > > As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or > transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local > resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder= , > wavelength, ports etc). > > >=20 > How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node? > Today that is done using label in ERO. >=20 > > If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a > certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and > this information could be stored and used at restart. > > >=20 > So what happens when the node losses all/some state? >=20 > Lou >=20 > > /Anders > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of > >> Lou Berger > >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > >> To: Greg Bernstein > >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > unique > >> resource identification > >> > >> Greg, > >> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > >> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > >> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > >> attribute is a match. > >> > >> Lou > >> > >> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > >>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some > kind > >>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > >>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > >>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > >>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put the= m > >>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I > didn't > >>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> Lou Berger wrote: > >>>> Jonas, > >>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > >> it > >>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >>>> > >>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency > or > >>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving > (and > >> I > >>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific > laser. > >>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't > possible. > >>>> > >>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node > >>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know abou= t, > >>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct > this > >>>> mapping. > >>>> > >>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resource= s > >>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >>>> > >>>> I believe these are the primary cases. > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps, > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Lou, > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are > >> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide > this > >> locally? > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Jonas > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>>>> resource identification > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Richard, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Lou > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what yo= u > >>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>>> Richard. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Authors, > >>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> repesentation of > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> tunable > >>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> is currently in > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tunin= g > >>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > >>>>>>> operation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> a specific > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> allocates the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> important/required > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> definition works > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> single fiber. But, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> resource on a node > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> supports multiple > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> particular output > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> interface. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped > unique > >>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> critical point, and > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> to discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> off-line. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > > > > > From anders.gavler@acreo.se Wed Nov 4 10:20:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2DD28C0DB for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:20:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2lO5-vjbJvd for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (dkcphmx24.softcom.dk [194.192.15.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D667628C0F6 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11982 invoked by uid 74); 4 Nov 2009 18:20:59 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257358859.791556.28172 (Processed in 0.174195 secs); 04 Nov 2009 18:20:59 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by dkcphmx24.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:20:59 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:20:59 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: Igor Bryskin Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:20:58 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpczwgS9s0M/Vq5S+2hpBbQ3ZBRuwAXSwgA Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DF0@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> <93C84C56-4A27-42E6-9A5F-266925C2BF99@acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <93C84C56-4A27-42E6-9A5F-266925C2BF99@acreo.se> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , Greg Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:20:42 -0000 Hi Igor, About global optimisation I guess I can see your point, but unless these sc= enarios are quite common and not some corner case isn't there a risk of hav= ing to distribute too much information about the internal node structure, a= nd the use of it, than meets the scalability requirements. E.g. using the s= uggested pool concepts would lead to less, but still enough (hopefully), in= formation distributed about the resources in the network.=20 Cheers, Anders > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonas M=E5rtensson > Sent: den 3 november 2009 22:46 > To: Igor Bryskin > Cc: Anders Gavler; Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Hi Igor, >=20 > I understand that it is useful to be able to indicate whether > regeneration should be performed. What was less clear to me was why it > matters exactly which regenerator or laser is used. If I understand > you correctly you say that one motivation is that different regens may > have different capabilities (eg tuning range) and/or connectivity and > therefore it could make a difference which one you use from a global > optimization perspective. For example, if a fixed laser is available > at the desired wavelength it might be better to use this rather than a > tunable one in order to have more flexibility for future connections. >=20 > I'm still not clear about the restart issue though. >=20 > Thanks, > Jonas >=20 > 3 nov 2009 kl. 20.40 skrev "Igor Bryskin" : >=20 > > Anders, > > > > Let me try to explain this. Within a given node there could be > > multiple ways how an incoming interface:lambda could be cross- > > connected with outgoing interface: lambda: > > a) transparent; > > b) fixed regeneration; > > c) tunable regeneration; > > d) chain of tunable/fixed transponders; > > e)etc. > > > > It is quite possible that a node on its own cannot decide on what is > > the proper way to build the cross-connect simply because it cannot > > see the network-wide picture, while a centralized authority (i.e. > > PCE, NMS) can. For example, because of optical impairment > > consideration the signal should be regenerated on this node with or > > without wavelength conversion. Note also that it is possible that > > more than one tunable resources with overlapping ranges are > > available on a given link, and (in the roadm directionless > > technology) the same transponder may be available from more than one > > links. > > > > You should see by now why it is paramount to be able to specify in > > the ERO not only link/lambda pairs but also the physical IDs of > > concrete transponders. > > > > This is one reason, amother is, as Lou pointed out, restarts. Think > > about the situation when you restart the node and during restart > > procedures two LSPs are associated with wrong transponders. Then > > when you delete one LSP you will bring down unintentionally the > > other one as well. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Igor > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Anders Gavler > > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:56 PM > > To: Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein > > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > > unique resource identification > > > > Lou, > > > > I still do not get it. > > > > As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or > > transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which > > local resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable > > transponder, wavelength, ports etc). > > > > If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to > > a certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable > > LSP and this information could be stored and used at restart. > > > > /Anders > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of > >> Lou Berger > >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > >> To: Greg Bernstein > >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > >> unique > >> resource identification > >> > >> Greg, > >> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > >> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > >> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > >> attribute is a match. > >> > >> Lou > >> > >> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > >>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some > >>> kind > >>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > >>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > >>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > >>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put > >>> them > >>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I > >>> didn't > >>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> Lou Berger wrote: > >>>> Jonas, > >>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > >> it > >>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >>>> > >>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, > >>>> frequency or > >>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving > >>>> (and > >> I > >>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific > >>>> laser. > >>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't > >>>> possible. > >>>> > >>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular > >>>> node > >>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know > >>>> about, > >>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct > >>>> this > >>>> mapping. > >>>> > >>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node > >>>> resources > >>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >>>> > >>>> I believe these are the primary cases. > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps, > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Lou, > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are > >> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node > >> decide this > >> locally? > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Jonas > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>>>> resource identification > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Richard, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Lou > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>>> Richard. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Authors, > >>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> repesentation of > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> tunable > >>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> is currently in > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the > >>>>>>> tuning > >>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > >>>>>>> operation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> a specific > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> allocates the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> important/required > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> definition works > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> single fiber. But, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> resource on a node > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> supports multiple > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> particular output > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> interface. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped > >>>>>>> unique > >>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> critical point, and > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> to discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> off-line. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > From IBryskin@advaoptical.com Wed Nov 4 11:43:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 389673A690F for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:43:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.255 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.255 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.257, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xOMpPA8r6MfI for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.advaoptical.com (mail.advaoptical.com [213.70.90.131]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001763A67AB for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 11:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com (muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com [10.200.0.15]) by mail.advaoptical.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id nA4JfV8P006598 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:41:33 +0100 Received: from muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com (muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com) by muc-srv-mimesweeper.advaoptical.com (Clearswift SMTPRS 5.2.9) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:43:31 +0100 Received: from atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com (172.16.5.27) by muc-srv-exhub.advaoptical.com (172.20.1.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:43:37 +0100 Received: from atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com ([172.16.5.27]) by atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com ([172.16.5.27]) with mapi; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:43:35 -0500 From: Igor Bryskin To: Anders Gavler Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:42:49 -0500 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpczwgS9s0M/Vq5S+2hpBbQ3ZBRuwAXSwgAABXsC/A= Message-ID: <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3538@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> <93C84C56-4A27-42E6-9A5F-266925C2BF99@acreo.se> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DF0@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DF0@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , Greg Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:43:46 -0000 Hi Anders, Here is a couple of reasons why you need to be able to signal tun. Traspobd= er physical IDs. 1. Suppose, two transponders tuned to the same frequency are associated wit= h two LSPs on a given NE. Suppose, the NE is restarted. Resync procedures w= ill resurrect CP state for both LSPs. However, if neighboring NEs do not kn= ow about IDs of the transponders, the CP on the rebooting NE could be easil= y confused and associate CP states of the two LSPs with wrong transponders.= If, some time later, one deletes one of the LSPs, the second LSP will be h= it. Note, that this situation can be avoided if the transponder IDs are pre= sent somewhere in the RSVP Path message (e.g. in ERO)=20 2. Suppose, two tun. transponders with overlapping ranges are available for= two new LSPs. Suppose, LSP 1 needs to use a frequency within both ranges, = while the second LSP needs to use frequency within only one of the ranges (= i.e. outside of the other range). If Path message of the first LSP does not= contain ID of the "right" transponder, it can easily choose the second one= and block the setup of the second LSP. Igor=20 -----Original Message----- From: Anders Gavler [mailto:Anders.Gavler@acreo.se]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:21 PM To: Igor Bryskin Cc: Jonas M=E5rtensson; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org; Lou Berger Subject: RE: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique = resource identification Hi Igor, About global optimisation I guess I can see your point, but unless these sc= enarios are quite common and not some corner case isn't there a risk of hav= ing to distribute too much information about the internal node structure, a= nd the use of it, than meets the scalability requirements. E.g. using the s= uggested pool concepts would lead to less, but still enough (hopefully), in= formation distributed about the resources in the network.=20 Cheers, Anders > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonas M=E5rtensson > Sent: den 3 november 2009 22:46 > To: Igor Bryskin > Cc: Anders Gavler; Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Hi Igor, >=20 > I understand that it is useful to be able to indicate whether > regeneration should be performed. What was less clear to me was why it > matters exactly which regenerator or laser is used. If I understand > you correctly you say that one motivation is that different regens may > have different capabilities (eg tuning range) and/or connectivity and > therefore it could make a difference which one you use from a global > optimization perspective. For example, if a fixed laser is available > at the desired wavelength it might be better to use this rather than a > tunable one in order to have more flexibility for future connections. >=20 > I'm still not clear about the restart issue though. >=20 > Thanks, > Jonas >=20 > 3 nov 2009 kl. 20.40 skrev "Igor Bryskin" : >=20 > > Anders, > > > > Let me try to explain this. Within a given node there could be > > multiple ways how an incoming interface:lambda could be cross- > > connected with outgoing interface: lambda: > > a) transparent; > > b) fixed regeneration; > > c) tunable regeneration; > > d) chain of tunable/fixed transponders; > > e)etc. > > > > It is quite possible that a node on its own cannot decide on what is > > the proper way to build the cross-connect simply because it cannot > > see the network-wide picture, while a centralized authority (i.e. > > PCE, NMS) can. For example, because of optical impairment > > consideration the signal should be regenerated on this node with or > > without wavelength conversion. Note also that it is possible that > > more than one tunable resources with overlapping ranges are > > available on a given link, and (in the roadm directionless > > technology) the same transponder may be available from more than one > > links. > > > > You should see by now why it is paramount to be able to specify in > > the ERO not only link/lambda pairs but also the physical IDs of > > concrete transponders. > > > > This is one reason, amother is, as Lou pointed out, restarts. Think > > about the situation when you restart the node and during restart > > procedures two LSPs are associated with wrong transponders. Then > > when you delete one LSP you will bring down unintentionally the > > other one as well. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Igor > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Anders Gavler > > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:56 PM > > To: Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein > > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > > unique resource identification > > > > Lou, > > > > I still do not get it. > > > > As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or > > transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which > > local resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable > > transponder, wavelength, ports etc). > > > > If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to > > a certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable > > LSP and this information could be stored and used at restart. > > > > /Anders > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of > >> Lou Berger > >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > >> To: Greg Bernstein > >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > >> unique > >> resource identification > >> > >> Greg, > >> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > >> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > >> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > >> attribute is a match. > >> > >> Lou > >> > >> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > >>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some > >>> kind > >>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put > >>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > >>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > >>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put > >>> them > >>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I > >>> didn't > >>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Greg > >>> > >>> Lou Berger wrote: > >>>> Jonas, > >>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > >> it > >>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >>>> > >>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, > >>>> frequency or > >>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving > >>>> (and > >> I > >>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific > >>>> laser. > >>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't > >>>> possible. > >>>> > >>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular > >>>> node > >>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know > >>>> about, > >>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct > >>>> this > >>>> mapping. > >>>> > >>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node > >>>> resources > >>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >>>> > >>>> I believe these are the primary cases. > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps, > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Lou, > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are > >> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node > >> decide this > >> locally? > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Jonas > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>>>> resource identification > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Richard, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Lou > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>>> Richard. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Authors, > >>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> repesentation of > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> tunable > >>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> is currently in > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the > >>>>>>> tuning > >>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > >>>>>>> operation. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> a specific > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> allocates the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> important/required > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> definition works > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> single fiber. But, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> resource on a node > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> supports multiple > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> particular output > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> interface. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped > >>>>>>> unique > >>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> critical point, and > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> to discuss > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> off-line. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D > >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CCAMP mailing list > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > From lberger@labn.net Wed Nov 4 13:25:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C617A3A688D for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:25:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.169 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.169 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pNYtP1tlTY1f for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-303.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-303.bluehost.com [67.222.53.10]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CF7D3A6885 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29812 invoked by uid 0); 4 Nov 2009 21:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2009 21:25:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=Hmr9jOHG/bCl2Dze3fInFNTyCutD1D4u/1SKpu3s0SR/Eob4DjMZ/aj+r3IZwMJGW1OrLhYI/sydBNcoa4HVz4EDALEowQ5ejWmSUoq48gdLZny1S3NhRuhHqy9gEge2; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N5nMa-0002F8-47; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:25:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF1F162.90307@labn.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:25:54 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anders Gavler References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DEF@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> In-Reply-To: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DEF@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:25:35 -0000 Anders, What I'm saying is that up until now GMPLS has supported labels that allow a node (based on it's local value allocation policy, or fixed TDM slots) to uniquely map from a label back to internal transport resources. The current draft breaks this. IMO there are two options: (a) accept this (model) change, or (b) fix the draft. I'm in favor of (b) particularly as there are some straight forward solutions to this. Lou On 11/4/2009 1:19 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > Hi Lou, > > Are you saying that there is no way to store and/or access this type of information in a good enough way and this is the reason why you need it at a restart event (re-signalling), or are you saying that you would need it anyway? > > Cheers, > Anders > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 20:36 >> To: Anders Gavler >> Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >> resource identification >> >> Anders, >> See below. >> >> On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: >>> Lou, >>> >>> I still do not get it. >>> >>> As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or >> transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local >> resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder, >> wavelength, ports etc). >>> >> >> How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node? >> Today that is done using label in ERO. >> >>> If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a >> certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and >> this information could be stored and used at restart. >>> >> >> So what happens when the node losses all/some state? >> >> Lou >> >>> /Anders >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of >>>> Lou Berger >>>> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 >>>> To: Greg Bernstein >>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and >> unique >>>> resource identification >>>> >>>> Greg, >>>> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource >>>> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the >>>> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP >>>> attribute is a match. >>>> >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: >>>>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some >> kind >>>>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put >>>>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those >>>>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether >>>>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them >>>>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I >> didn't >>>>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> >>>>> Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>> Jonas, >>>>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think >>>> it >>>>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: >>>>>> >>>>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to >>>>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency >> or >>>>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving >> (and >>>> I >>>>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is >>>>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific >> laser. >>>>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't >> possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain >>>>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node >>>>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to >>>>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the >>>>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, >>>>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct >> this >>>>>> mapping. >>>>>> >>>>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources >>>>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe these are the primary cases. >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope this helps, >>>>>> Lou >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Lou, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are >>>> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide >> this >>>> locally? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Jonas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >>>>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >>>>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat >>>>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>>>>>>> resource identification >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Richard, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >>>>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >>>>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >>>>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sorry for the lag. >>>>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>>>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? >>>>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>>>> Richard. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Authors, >>>>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> repesentation of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> tunable >>>>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is currently in >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: >>>>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>>>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>>>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a specific >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> allocates the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> important/required >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> definition works >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> single fiber. But, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> resource on a node >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> supports multiple >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> particular output >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> interface. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped >> unique >>>>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> critical point, and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> off-line. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Much thanks, >>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> =================================================== >>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > > From anders.gavler@acreo.se Wed Nov 4 13:54:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D3F3A6905 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FcqX7rCf10Be for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from deframx28.softcom.dk (deframx28.softcom.dk [87.230.83.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971583A68E9 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25346 invoked by uid 74); 4 Nov 2009 21:54:33 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257371673.319029.14960 (Processed in 0.159911 secs); 04 Nov 2009 21:54:33 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by deframx28.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:54:33 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:54:32 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: Lou Berger Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:54:32 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpdlWduLnYVriY8TzeYun9CfWdnwgAAksYg Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321E01@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DEF@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF1F162.90307@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF1F162.90307@labn.net> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:54:16 -0000 Hi Lou, Sounds like the logical choice.=20 Thanks for trying to explain the restart scenario. Cheers, Anders =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] > Sent: den 4 november 2009 22:26 > To: Anders Gavler > Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Anders, > What I'm saying is that up until now GMPLS has supported labels > that > allow a node (based on it's local value allocation policy, or fixed TDM > slots) to uniquely map from a label back to internal transport > resources. The current draft breaks this. IMO there are two options: > (a) accept this (model) change, or > (b) fix the draft. >=20 > I'm in favor of (b) particularly as there are some straight forward > solutions to this. >=20 > Lou > On 11/4/2009 1:19 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > > Hi Lou, > > > > Are you saying that there is no way to store and/or access this type of > information in a good enough way and this is the reason why you need it a= t > a restart event (re-signalling), or are you saying that you would need it > anyway? > > > > Cheers, > > Anders > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] > >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 20:36 > >> To: Anders Gavler > >> Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > unique > >> resource identification > >> > >> Anders, > >> See below. > >> > >> On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > >>> Lou, > >>> > >>> I still do not get it. > >>> > >>> As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or > >> transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local > >> resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable > transponder, > >> wavelength, ports etc). > >>> > >> > >> How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node? > >> Today that is done using label in ERO. > >> > >>> If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a > >> certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP > and > >> this information could be stored and used at restart. > >>> > >> > >> So what happens when the node losses all/some state? > >> > >> Lou > >> > >>> /Anders > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > >> Of > >>>> Lou Berger > >>>> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > >>>> To: Greg Bernstein > >>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > >> unique > >>>> resource identification > >>>> > >>>> Greg, > >>>> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > >>>> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > >>>> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > >>>> attribute is a match. > >>>> > >>>> Lou > >>>> > >>>> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > >>>>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some > >> kind > >>>>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively pu= t > >>>>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > >>>>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > >>>>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put > them > >>>>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I > >> didn't > >>>>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards > >>>>> > >>>>> Greg > >>>>> > >>>>> Lou Berger wrote: > >>>>>> Jonas, > >>>>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > >>>> it > >>>>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > >>>>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, > frequency > >> or > >>>>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving > >> (and > >>>> I > >>>>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > >>>>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific > >> laser. > >>>>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't > >> possible. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > >>>>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular > node > >>>>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > >>>>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > >>>>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know > about, > >>>>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct > >> this > >>>>>> mapping. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node > resources > >>>>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I believe these are the primary cases. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I hope this helps, > >>>>>> Lou > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lou, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system ar= e > >>>> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide > >> this > >>>> locally? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>> Jonas > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > >>>>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > >>>>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat > >>>>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > >>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > >>>>>>>> resource identification > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Richard, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > >>>>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > >>>>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > >>>>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> sorry for the lag. > >>>>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what > you > >>>>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > >>>>>>>>> thanks, > >>>>>>>>> Richard. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Authors, > >>>>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> repesentation of > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> tunable > >>>>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> is currently in > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: > >>>>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the > tuning > >>>>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switchin= g > >>>>>>>>> operation. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> a specific > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> allocates the > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> important/required > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> definition works > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> single fiber. But, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> resource on a node > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> supports multiple > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> particular output > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> interface. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped > >> unique > >>>>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> critical point, and > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> to discuss > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> off-line. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Much thanks, > >>>>>>>>> Lou > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > From anders.gavler@acreo.se Wed Nov 4 14:05:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651BC28C15A for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:05:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.215 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.215 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ED4nR4jX5-10 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from deframx28.softcom.dk (deframx28.softcom.dk [87.230.83.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 230AA28C158 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 625 invoked by uid 74); 4 Nov 2009 22:05:48 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1257372348.328027.31203 (Processed in 0.194929 secs); 04 Nov 2009 22:05:48 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by deframx28.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:05:48 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:05:47 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: Igor Bryskin Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 23:05:45 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification Thread-Index: AcpczwgS9s0M/Vq5S+2hpBbQ3ZBRuwAXSwgAABXsC/AABYBRsA== Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321E02@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3238@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> <93C84C56-4A27-42E6-9A5F-266925C2BF99@acreo.se> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DF0@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3538@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> In-Reply-To: <052C67B4ED558D41BBDEA7CA9FC6DCDC4337CD3538@atl-srv-exgen.atl.advaoptical.com> Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , Greg Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:05:32 -0000 Hi Igor, Thanks for adding a couple of cases, especially the first one that clarifie= s the possible problems at a node restart. I did not anticipate that this w= as a likely scenario. Cheers, Anders > -----Original Message----- > From: Igor Bryskin [mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com] > Sent: den 4 november 2009 20:43 > To: Anders Gavler > Cc: Jonas M=E5rtensson; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org; Lou Berger > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Hi Anders, >=20 > Here is a couple of reasons why you need to be able to signal tun. > Traspobder physical IDs. >=20 > 1. Suppose, two transponders tuned to the same frequency are associated > with two LSPs on a given NE. Suppose, the NE is restarted. Resync > procedures will resurrect CP state for both LSPs. However, if neighboring > NEs do not know about IDs of the transponders, the CP on the rebooting NE > could be easily confused and associate CP states of the two LSPs with > wrong transponders. If, some time later, one deletes one of the LSPs, the > second LSP will be hit. Note, that this situation can be avoided if the > transponder IDs are present somewhere in the RSVP Path message (e.g. in > ERO) >=20 > 2. Suppose, two tun. transponders with overlapping ranges are available > for two new LSPs. Suppose, LSP 1 needs to use a frequency within both > ranges, while the second LSP needs to use frequency within only one of th= e > ranges (i.e. outside of the other range). If Path message of the first LS= P > does not contain ID of the "right" transponder, it can easily choose the > second one and block the setup of the second LSP. >=20 > Igor >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Anders Gavler [mailto:Anders.Gavler@acreo.se] > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 1:21 PM > To: Igor Bryskin > Cc: Jonas M=E5rtensson; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org; Lou Berger > Subject: RE: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and uniqu= e > resource identification >=20 > Hi Igor, >=20 > About global optimisation I guess I can see your point, but unless these > scenarios are quite common and not some corner case isn't there a risk of > having to distribute too much information about the internal node > structure, and the use of it, than meets the scalability requirements. E.= g. > using the suggested pool concepts would lead to less, but still enough > (hopefully), information distributed about the resources in the network. >=20 > Cheers, > Anders >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jonas M=E5rtensson > > Sent: den 3 november 2009 22:46 > > To: Igor Bryskin > > Cc: Anders Gavler; Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > unique > > resource identification > > > > Hi Igor, > > > > I understand that it is useful to be able to indicate whether > > regeneration should be performed. What was less clear to me was why it > > matters exactly which regenerator or laser is used. If I understand > > you correctly you say that one motivation is that different regens may > > have different capabilities (eg tuning range) and/or connectivity and > > therefore it could make a difference which one you use from a global > > optimization perspective. For example, if a fixed laser is available > > at the desired wavelength it might be better to use this rather than a > > tunable one in order to have more flexibility for future connections. > > > > I'm still not clear about the restart issue though. > > > > Thanks, > > Jonas > > > > 3 nov 2009 kl. 20.40 skrev "Igor Bryskin" : > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > Let me try to explain this. Within a given node there could be > > > multiple ways how an incoming interface:lambda could be cross- > > > connected with outgoing interface: lambda: > > > a) transparent; > > > b) fixed regeneration; > > > c) tunable regeneration; > > > d) chain of tunable/fixed transponders; > > > e)etc. > > > > > > It is quite possible that a node on its own cannot decide on what is > > > the proper way to build the cross-connect simply because it cannot > > > see the network-wide picture, while a centralized authority (i.e. > > > PCE, NMS) can. For example, because of optical impairment > > > consideration the signal should be regenerated on this node with or > > > without wavelength conversion. Note also that it is possible that > > > more than one tunable resources with overlapping ranges are > > > available on a given link, and (in the roadm directionless > > > technology) the same transponder may be available from more than one > > > links. > > > > > > You should see by now why it is paramount to be able to specify in > > > the ERO not only link/lambda pairs but also the physical IDs of > > > concrete transponders. > > > > > > This is one reason, amother is, as Lou pointed out, restarts. Think > > > about the situation when you restart the node and during restart > > > procedures two LSPs are associated with wrong transponders. Then > > > when you delete one LSP you will bring down unintentionally the > > > other one as well. > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Igor > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > > > Behalf Of Anders Gavler > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:56 PM > > > To: Lou Berger; Greg Bernstein > > > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > > > unique resource identification > > > > > > Lou, > > > > > > I still do not get it. > > > > > > As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or > > > transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which > > > local resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable > > > transponder, wavelength, ports etc). > > > > > > If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to > > > a certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable > > > LSP and this information could be stored and used at restart. > > > > > > /Anders > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On > > >> Behalf Of > > >> Lou Berger > > >> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 > > >> To: Greg Bernstein > > >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > > >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and > > >> unique > > >> resource identification > > >> > > >> Greg, > > >> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource > > >> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the > > >> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP > > >> attribute is a match. > > >> > > >> Lou > > >> > > >> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: > > >>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some > > >>> kind > > >>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively pu= t > > >>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those > > >>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether > > >>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put > > >>> them > > >>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I > > >>> didn't > > >>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. > > >>> > > >>> Regards > > >>> > > >>> Greg > > >>> > > >>> Lou Berger wrote: > > >>>> Jonas, > > >>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think > > >> it > > >>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: > > >>>> > > >>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to > > >>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, > > >>>> frequency or > > >>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving > > >>>> (and > > >> I > > >>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is > > >>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific > > >>>> laser. > > >>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't > > >>>> possible. > > >>>> > > >>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain > > >>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular > > >>>> node > > >>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to > > >>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the > > >>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know > > >>>> about, > > >>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct > > >>>> this > > >>>> mapping. > > >>>> > > >>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node > > >>>> resources > > >>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). > > >>>> > > >>>> I believe these are the primary cases. > > >>>> > > >>>> I hope this helps, > > >>>> Lou > > >>>> > > >>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas M=E5rtensson wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Lou, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system ar= e > > >> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node > > >> decide this > > >> locally? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Regards, > > >>>>> Jonas > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > > >>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger > > >>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 > > >>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat > > >>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] > > >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique > > >>>>>> resource identification > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Richard, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro > > >>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, > > >>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to > > >>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>> Lou > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> sorry for the lag. > > >>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what > > >>>>>>> you > > >>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? > > >>>>>>> thanks, > > >>>>>>> Richard. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger > >>>>>>> > wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Authors, > > >>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> repesentation of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> tunable > > >>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> is currently in > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: > > >>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the > > >>>>>>> tuning > > >>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching > > >>>>>>> operation. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> a specific > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> allocates the > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> important/required > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> definition works > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> single fiber. But, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> resource on a node > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> supports multiple > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> particular output > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> interface. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped > > >>>>>>> unique > > >>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> critical point, and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> to discuss > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> off-line. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Much thanks, > > >>>>>>> Lou > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > > >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> CCAMP mailing list > > >>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> CCAMP mailing list > > >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > > >>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> CCAMP mailing list > > >> CCAMP@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > >=20 >=20 From gregb@grotto-networking.com Thu Nov 5 10:17:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5D428C105 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:17:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k8qj6LbjSMEW for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail14c40.carrierzone.com (mail14c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.154]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1A5F28C0E1 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:17:05 -0800 (PST) X-Authenticated-User: gregb.grotto-networking.com Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.133] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail14c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nA5IHN8G021640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:17:27 GMT Message-ID: <4AF316AE.7050103@grotto-networking.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:17:18 -0800 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lou Berger References: <4AD74572.2070508@labn.net> <4AEAE3E4.1050309@labn.net> <1EC35EEAF3A9FA439C7D6AE45BF437870184657724CC@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF06AEB.1070601@labn.net> <4AF06D49.5090006@grotto-networking.com> <4AF06F20.5090301@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321D33@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF08626.1040403@labn.net> <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D321DEF@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> <4AF1F162.90307@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4AF1F162.90307@labn.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080002090408060407070608" Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique resource identification X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:17:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080002090408060407070608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With the signal compatibility draft and signaling extensions we introduce more configuration information via attributes in the ERO. If we add the tunable transponder id (very similar to a wavelength converter id) to the label will this be sufficient for restart or would we need to add some of our other attributes such as (FEC and modulation format) to permit restart. Greg Lou Berger wrote: > Anders, > What I'm saying is that up until now GMPLS has supported labels that > allow a node (based on it's local value allocation policy, or fixed TDM > slots) to uniquely map from a label back to internal transport > resources. The current draft breaks this. IMO there are two options: > (a) accept this (model) change, or > (b) fix the draft. > > I'm in favor of (b) particularly as there are some straight forward > solutions to this. > > Lou > On 11/4/2009 1:19 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: > >> Hi Lou, >> >> Are you saying that there is no way to store and/or access this type of information in a good enough way and this is the reason why you need it at a restart event (re-signalling), or are you saying that you would need it anyway? >> >> Cheers, >> Anders >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] >>> Sent: den 3 november 2009 20:36 >>> To: Anders Gavler >>> Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>> resource identification >>> >>> Anders, >>> See below. >>> >>> On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote: >>> >>>> Lou, >>>> >>>> I still do not get it. >>>> >>>> As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or >>>> >>> transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local >>> resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder, >>> wavelength, ports etc). >>> >>> How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node? >>> Today that is done using label in ERO. >>> >>> >>>> If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a >>>> >>> certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and >>> this information could be stored and used at restart. >>> >>> So what happens when the node losses all/some state? >>> >>> Lou >>> >>> >>>> /Anders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>>>> >>> Of >>> >>>>> Lou Berger >>>>> Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58 >>>>> To: Greg Bernstein >>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and >>>>> >>> unique >>> >>>>> resource identification >>>>> >>>>> Greg, >>>>> In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource >>>>> information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the >>>>> exception of ERO and RROs. So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP >>>>> attribute is a match. >>>>> >>>>> Lou >>>>> >>>>> On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some >>>>>> >>> kind >>> >>>>>> of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put >>>>>> similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those >>>>>> attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether >>>>>> regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them >>>>>> with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I >>>>>> >>> didn't >>> >>>>>> think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg >>>>>> >>>>>> Lou Berger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jonas, >>>>>>> A very good question! In the common/general setup case I think >>>>>>> >>>>> it >>>>> >>>>>>> won't matter. But there are cases where it may: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to >>>>>>> represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency >>>>>>> >>> or >>> >>>>>>> even port. If we assume that this is a function worth preserving >>>>>>> >>> (and >>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>>> believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is >>>>>>> desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific >>>>>>> >>> laser. >>> >>>>>>> Even a tunable one. With the current definition, this isn't >>>>>>> >>> possible. >>> >>>>>>> - The more practical/import case is graceful restart. In certain >>>>>>> restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node >>>>>>> resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to >>>>>>> ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the >>>>>>> information to do the matching. In all other cases that I know about, >>>>>>> GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct >>>>>>> >>> this >>> >>>>>>> mapping. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources >>>>>>> (e.g., tunable lasers). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe these are the primary cases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope this helps, >>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lou, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are >>>>>>>> >>>>> tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide >>>>> >>> this >>> >>>>> locally? >>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Jonas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] >>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger >>>>>>>>> Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02 >>>>>>>>> To: Richard Rabbat >>>>>>>>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] >>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique >>>>>>>>> resource identification >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Richard, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Okay let me try again with a specific case. If I have an rro >>>>>>>>> or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document, >>>>>>>>> how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to >>>>>>>>> when all lasers in the system are tunable? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> sorry for the lag. >>>>>>>>>> do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you >>>>>>>>>> can't do and your proposed change? >>>>>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Richard. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Authors, >>>>>>>>>> Have you given any additional thought on the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> repesentation of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> tunable >>>>>>>>>> lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is currently in >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the draft? The current text is: >>>>>>>>>> If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning >>>>>>>>>> wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching >>>>>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a specific >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> allocates the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> label and resource. Such unique identification is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> important/required >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> definition works >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> single fiber. But, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the defined global label will not uniquely identify a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> resource on a node >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> supports multiple >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> particular output >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> interface. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped >>>>>>>>>> >>> unique >>> >>>>>>>>>> resource identification in the context of your draft? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> critical point, and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> off-line. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Much thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Lou >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> =================================================== >>>>>> Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CCAMP mailing list >>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 --------------080002090408060407070608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With the signal compatibility draft and signaling extensions we introduce more configuration information via attributes in the ERO.
If we add the tunable transponder id (very similar to a wavelength converter id) to the label will this be sufficient for restart or would we need to add some of our other attributes such as (FEC and modulation format) to permit restart.

Greg



Lou Berger wrote: 
Anders,
	What I'm saying is that up until now GMPLS has supported labels that
allow a node (based on it's local value allocation policy, or fixed TDM
slots) to uniquely map from a label back to internal transport
resources.  The current draft breaks this.  IMO there are two options:
(a) accept this (model) change, or
(b) fix the draft.

I'm in favor of (b) particularly as there are some straight forward
solutions to this.

Lou
On 11/4/2009 1:19 PM, Anders Gavler wrote:
  
Hi Lou,

Are you saying that there is no way to store and/or access this type of information in a good enough way and this is the reason why you need it at a restart event (re-signalling), or are you saying that you would need it anyway?

Cheers,
 Anders

    
-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
Sent: den 3 november 2009 20:36
To: Anders Gavler
Cc: Greg Bernstein; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique
resource identification

Anders,
	See below.

On 11/3/2009 1:55 PM, Anders Gavler wrote:
      
Lou,

I still do not get it.

As long as a node uniquely can identify an LSP that starts, ends, or
        
transits this node it should also be able to uniquely map which local
resources the LSP corresponds to (e.g. tunable or non-tunable transponder,
wavelength, ports etc).
      
How does one specify use of a particular laser from an upstream node?
Today that is done using label in ERO.

      
If this is true I do not see why the label needs to directly map to a
        
certain laser since they both can map to a uniquely identifiable LSP and
this information could be stored and used at restart.
      
So what happens when the node losses all/some state?

Lou

      
/Anders


        
-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
          
Of
      
Lou Berger
Sent: den 3 november 2009 18:58
To: Greg Bernstein
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and
          
unique
      
resource identification

Greg,
	In the cases I'm referring to we're talking per node resource
information which typically has node (pair) local scope with the
exception of ERO and RROs.  So no, I don't think an end-to-end LSP
attribute is a match.

Lou

On 11/3/2009 12:50 PM, Greg Bernstein wrote:
          
Lou, do you think this information is better in a label or in some
            
kind
      
of LSP attribute? In the WSON compatibility draft we tentatively put
similar information into a new ERO subobject for attributes. Those
attributes included things like modulation format, FEC, and whether
regeneration should occur at a node along the path. We didn't put them
with the traffic descriptor since they can change along a path. I
            
didn't
      
think we should put them into labels... But I'm flexible.

Regards

Greg

Lou Berger wrote:
            
Jonas,
	A very good question!  In the common/general setup case I think
              
it
          
won't matter.  But there are cases where it may:

- In GMPLS we have a precedent of being able to use the label to
represent a specific physical resource, be it a time slot, frequency
              
or
      
even port.  If we assume that this is a function worth preserving
              
(and
      
I
          
believe it is, at least with today's equipment) than it is
desirable/required to be able to use GMPLS to control a specific
              
laser.
      
 Even a tunable one.  With the current definition, this isn't
              
possible.
      
- The more practical/import case is graceful restart.  In certain
restart cases, the restarting node may need to match particular node
resources (e.g., tunable lasers) against a particular frequency to
ensure no data loss and the restarting node may no longer have the
information to do the matching.  In all other cases that I know about,
GMPLS allows for sufficient information for a node to reconstruct
              
this
      
mapping.

- MP to CP handover may also need to identify specific node resources
(e.g., tunable lasers).

I believe these are the primary cases.

I hope this helps,
Lou

On 11/2/2009 5:35 AM, Jonas Mårtensson wrote:

              
Lou,

Maybe this is a silly question but if all lasers in the system are
                
tunable, why does it matter which one is used? Can't the node decide
          
this
      
locally?
          
Regards,
Jonas


                
-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of Lou Berger
Sent: den 30 oktober 2009 14:02
To: Richard Rabbat
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g-694-lambda-labels and unique
resource identification

Richard,

Okay let me try again with a specific case.  If I have an rro
or ero that identifies the label (lambda) per your document,
how does a node know which laser the label corresponds to
when all lasers in the system are tunable?

Thanks,
Lou

On 10/29/2009 2:22 PM, Richard Rabbat wrote:

                  
sorry for the lag.
do you want to describe your use-case further in terms of what you
can't do and your proposed change?
thanks,
Richard.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
<mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:

    Authors,
           Have you given any additional thought on the

                    
repesentation of

                  
    tunable
    lasers (and unique resource identification) beyond what

                    
is currently in

                  
    the draft? The current text is:
      If the node has a tunable wavelength transponder, the tuning
      wavelength is considered as a part of wavelength switching
      operation.

    In the past, labels used for TE LSPs always represented

                    
a specific

                  
    resource that is uniquely identifiable by the node that

                    
allocates the

                  
    label and resource.  Such unique identification is

                    
important/required

                  
    for certan restart and other corner cases. Your current

                    
definition works

                  
    fine for fixed lasers that can only be mapped to a

                    
single fiber.  But,

                  
    the defined global label will not uniquely identify a

                    
resource on a node

                  
    when (a) tunable lasers are used, or (b) when a node

                    
supports multiple

                  
    fixed lasers that can be (optically) switched to a

                    
particular output

                  
    interface.

    What are your thoughts on how to provide such link-scoped
                    
unique
      
    resource identification in the context of your draft?

    I don't think it'll be too difficult to address this

                    
critical point, and

                  
    see a couple of straightforward solutions if you'd like

                    
to discuss

                  
    off-line.

    Much thanks,
    Lou


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_______________________________________________
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CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp



              
--
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237


            
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
          




        




    


  

-- 
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
--------------080002090408060407070608-- From Lyong@Ciena.com Thu Nov 5 14:42:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F1F3A68CC for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:42:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OTvBy0MpUXoH for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripley.ciena.com (ripley.ciena.com [63.118.34.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399193A681B for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:42:46 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA5E69.39E5C5A9" Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:42:13 -0500 Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FC@mdmxm03.ciena.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4AF095AE.80906@labn.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda thread-index: AcpcxlKUOCZ+u+F0QL+fsBVx4CVn7gBotC2A References: <4AF095AE.80906@labn.net> Importance: normal Priority: normal From: "Ong, Lyndon" To: "Lou Berger" , "CCAMP" , "Dan King" Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:42:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA5E69.39E5C5A9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lou, Deborah, Dan, Attaching slides for ccamp-2. Cheers, Lyndon -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:42 PM To: CCAMP; Dan King Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda All, An updated (and hopefully final) version of the agenda has been posted to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/ccamp.htm. We'd like to ask that slides be submitted (to the WG chairs and WG secretary) as soon as possible, and strongly encourage submission of slides by Sunday. This will help those whose native language is not English by giving them time to study the slides. Note to presenters: Please name the slides you submit to match your slot's presentation name as listed in the URL above. Much thanks, Lou (and Deborah) _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA5E69.39E5C5A9 Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-powerpoint; name="ccamp-2.ppt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: ccamp-2.ppt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ccamp-2.ppt" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAGQEAAAAAAAAA EAAA/v///wAAAAD+////AAAAABYBAAAXAQAAGAEAAP////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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AAAAAAAAAAAAOAACAf///////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAYBAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA////////////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD///////////////8AAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP// /////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AA== ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA5E69.39E5C5A9-- From Lyong@Ciena.com Thu Nov 5 14:45:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0020F28C11E for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fko8OV+PCW97 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripley.ciena.com (ripley.ciena.com [63.118.34.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E51E3A68CC for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:35 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:45:58 -0500 Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FE@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FC@mdmxm03.ciena.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda thread-index: AcpcxlKUOCZ+u+F0QL+fsBVx4CVn7gBotC2AAAAe9cA= Importance: normal Priority: normal References: <4AF095AE.80906@labn.net> <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FC@mdmxm03.ciena.com> From: "Ong, Lyndon" To: "CCAMP" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:45:36 -0000 Oops, sorry about the broadcast, next time will not use "reply all" = without looking more closely... From lberger@labn.net Thu Nov 5 14:45:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62BC3A68CC for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.179 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gxQ5WyV1rVtL for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-316.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-316.bluehost.com [67.222.54.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 10FD03A67E2 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23734 invoked by uid 0); 5 Nov 2009 22:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2009 22:46:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=nCLL+Q1B+X5tGh4Q5SnuQWoUEs8BEB+qW3ED3NTKaZp4UyJGYMb0GR/xPWsSgFayrmEvd8IpjAar8TlDe1wvZadoBJhqd4atfdakxkEQ/UPSakRTWwuUo3VFbffW7ADj; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N6B5j-0001UG-Ro; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:46:07 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF355AF.2030003@labn.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:46:07 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ong, Lyndon" References: <4AF095AE.80906@labn.net> <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FC@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD9012140FC@mdmxm03.ciena.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: CCAMP , "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:45:45 -0000 Lyndon, I assume you cc'ed ccamp by mistake - Presenters, please direct your submissions to the chairs and secretary *not* the WG. Thanks, Lou On 11/5/2009 5:42 PM, Ong, Lyndon wrote: > Hi Lou, Deborah, Dan, > > Attaching slides for ccamp-2. > > Cheers, > > Lyndon > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Lou Berger > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 12:42 PM > To: CCAMP; Dan King > Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS > Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 CCAMP Agenda > > All, > An updated (and hopefully final) version of the agenda has been > posted > to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/agenda/ccamp.htm. > > We'd like to ask that slides be submitted (to the WG chairs and WG > secretary) as soon as possible, and strongly encourage submission of > slides by Sunday. This will help those whose native language is not > English by giving them time to study the slides. > > Note to presenters: Please name the slides you submit to match your > slot's presentation name as listed in the URL above. > > Much thanks, > Lou (and Deborah) > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > From lberger@labn.net Fri Nov 6 14:42:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F20D3A686C for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:42:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X2ypU11rUYv8 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-153.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-153.bluehost.com [67.222.39.33]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 56FE33A67FA for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 10247 invoked by uid 0); 6 Nov 2009 22:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2009 22:43:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=IT4UAPjDfKWn8yE3pn2ywvSpv6OfCgPvuWdkdXm6cmKuPF9wRi2fJWzVkT+mkvHWpb9FkSqgDZuJ+htM2WdY6Fi1EBFYIaDAE6irxuNFhlbyh9SrHsO6gpHrlJmYntj3; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N6XWH-0002pb-M4; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:43:01 -0700 Message-ID: <4AF4A678.5070504@labn.net> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:43:04 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" Subject: [CCAMP] Reminder: slides for next week X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:42:39 -0000 Presenters, Just a reminder to send in slides to the chairs and the secretary (Dan). See http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda for a list of received and missing slides (listed by presentation number.) All received slides have been posted. If you don't see your slides listed and you sent them, please let us know. Much thanks! Lou (and Deborah) From root@core3.amsl.com Tue Nov 10 00:30:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@ietf.org Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 015CE3A6A67; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20091110083002.015CE3A6A67@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:30:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action:draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:30:02 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Data Channel Status Confirmation Extensions for the Link Management Protocol Author(s) : D. Li, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2009-11-10 This document defines simple additions to the Link Management Protocol (LMP) to provide a control plane tool that can assist in the location of stranded resources by allowing adjacent LSRs to confirm data channel statuses, and provides triggers for notifying the management plane if any discrepancies are found. As LMP is already used to verify data plane connectivity, it is considered to be an appropriate candidate to support this feature. Li Expires May 2010 [page 1] draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt October 2009 Conventions used in this document The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-11-10002154.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 10 18:10:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63993A6A37 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:10:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.885 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.220, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e0eqR9tqW+V9 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-132.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-132.bluehost.com [67.222.39.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5ED853A677E for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 15512 invoked by uid 0); 11 Nov 2009 02:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy4.bluehost.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2009 02:10:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=ZM7i/5e4n8fELrvRz5bnovgHH58PuXpU1MLJFn7uzcDINLIGMjE1f7lQG500Py8SVjctCQKrphx0C5LZB485pTKk3bddgMsV4MvVv01YiCYcLdhxYZtjJJyxgmRlQucJ; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N82fZ-00061t-Lw for ccamp@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:10:50 -0700 Message-ID: <4AFA1D31.9090708@labn.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:10:57 +0900 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: [CCAMP] link to presentations broken X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:10:23 -0000 The numbering/links to presentations on the agenda page got mixed up. The agenda has therefore been updated to point to http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/agenda which has the presentations listed by name. Lou From lberger@labn.net Tue Nov 10 23:08:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA3F3A6C29 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:08:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.119, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65odrjiYsKBy for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-145.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-145.bluehost.com [67.222.38.35]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B71F73A6A49 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 29347 invoked by uid 0); 11 Nov 2009 07:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy5.bluehost.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2009 07:08:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=z+vkNwyQ898chzZOrxxD7cxfCZ1Cg2ibB2lnoZizzKY5Bi+hZgBcoH3REETrkEbtuMFk32E+bKLChYqRKIkFcFD0HmgS6oDHDL+G5eJ9e9+8NL1S3qDIZVu0rrVAxpQ5; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N87K5-0004R8-3M; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:08:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4AFA6310.8000501@labn.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:09:04 +0900 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP , Lyndon Ong X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: [CCAMP] Assignments for OSPFv2 Routing Protocols Extensions for ASON Routing X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:08:56 -0000 All, Lyndon raised the issue in today's session that the OSPFv2 Routing Protocols Extensions for ASON Routing, http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf-09, does not have experimental code points assigned. The Chairs are working the process issue with our AD. In the interim, we'd like to propose that we track the code points to use for this document under the CCAMP Wiki's Temporary Codepoint Registry, http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/wiki/AsonRoutingExp. We'll announce once the code points are posted. Much thanks, Lou (and Deborah) From root@core3.amsl.com Wed Nov 11 00:30:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@ietf.org Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 93B9C3A6B8A; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20091111083001.93B9C3A6B8A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:30:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-09.txt X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:30:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Protocol Extensions for Multi-Layer and Multi-Region Networks (MLN/MRN) Author(s) : D. Papadimitriou, M. Vigoureux, K. Shiomoto, D. Brungard, J. Le Roux Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-09.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2009-11-11 There are specific requirements for the support of networks comprising Label Switching Routers (LSR) participating in different data plane switching layers controlled by a single Generalized Multi Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) control plane instance, referred to as GMPLS Multi-Layer Networks/Multi-Region Networks (MLN/MRN). This document defines extensions to GMPLS routing and signaling protocols so as to support the operation of GMPLS Multi-Layer/Multi- Region Networks. It covers the elements of a single GMPLS control plane instance controlling multiple LSP regions or layers within a single TE domain. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-09.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-extensions-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-11-11002945.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From root@core3.amsl.com Wed Nov 11 00:45:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@ietf.org Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9698B3A67DD; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:45:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20091111084501.9698B3A67DD@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-09.txt X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:45:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF. Title : Ethernet Traffic Parameters Author(s) : D. Papadimitriou Filename : draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-09.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2009-11-11 This document describes the support of Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) Ethernet Traffic Parameters as described in MEF10.1 when using Generalized Multi-Protocol Label Switching (GMPLS) Resource ReSerVation Protocol - Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) signaling. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-09.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ccamp-ethernet-traffic-parameters-09.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-11-11003322.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com Wed Nov 11 19:06:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3053A6B3F for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:06:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9A1BiN3frc0g for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.tellabs.com (mx4.tellabs.com [204.154.129.57]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDCD3A6A1E for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:06:48 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.44,726,1249257600"; d="scan'208,217";a="1301951989" Received: from usnvwwmspht02.hq.tellabs.com (HELO usnvwwmspht02.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net) ([172.23.211.70]) by mx4-priv.tellabs.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2009 03:07:15 +0000 Received: from EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net ([172.23.211.71]) by usnvwwmspht02.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net ([172.23.211.70]) with mapi; Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:07:14 -0600 From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." To: "ccamp@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:07:14 -0600 Thread-Topic: Request for review: draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 Thread-Index: AQHKY0U76zerOBKhxke31sejCMhytQ== Message-ID: <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05EXNAPtellabsw_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [CCAMP] Request for review: draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:06:49 -0000 --_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05EXNAPtellabsw_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, In today's CCAMP session, I presented a draft that was mentioned in the lia= ison from the OIF on signaling for inverse multiplexing groups. This draft= can be found here: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00.txt As mentioned in section 3 of the draft as well as the presentation, this is= being proposed as a generalized mechanism that can be used by different te= chnologies (e.g. IEEE 802.1AX, BONDING or IMA configuration) as well as dif= ferent business relationships between the: - provider of the underlying connections - provider of the inverse multiplexing service - provider of the end-to-end service which in part is utilizing the invers= e multiplexing service The draft states that while the VCAT configuration mechanism proposed in dr= aft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas provides for configuration of VCAT, it does = not meet the conditions above. This stems from an assumption that the cont= rol plane used for the underlying connections is available for the signalin= g for the inverse multiplexing service (the draft calls this "piggybacking"= ). This is not a safe assumption when the underlying connections are provi= ded by a separate business entity, it is possible that: - the endpoints of the underlying connections are statically configured (e= .g. a control plane may or may not be used in the middle but is definitely = not available to the endpoint. This is similar to the use case described i= n draft-jenkins-mpls-tp-bt-requirements) - this entity may not be interested in providing the end-to-end signaling = of anything other than the individual STS-1s (i.e. it will not pass the NOT= IFY containing CALL setup). Hence, the proposal of this alternate method. My co-author and myself would appreciate the review of this draft by CCAMP = participants and any comments you may have. Please feel free to send them = on or off list. Jonathan Sadler --_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05EXNAPtellabsw_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello a= ll,
 
In today's CCAMP session,= I presented a draft that was mentioned in the liaison from the OIF on= signaling for inverse multiplexing groups.  This draft can be found h= ere:
  http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00.txt
 
As mentioned in section 3= of the draft as well as the presentation, this is being proposed= as a generalized mechanism that can be used by different technologies (e.g= . IEEE 802.1AX, BONDING or IMA configuration) as well as different business relationships between the:
 - provider of the u= nderlying connections
 - provider of the i= nverse multiplexing service
 - provider of the e= nd-to-end service which in part is utilizing the inverse multiplexing servi= ce
 
The draft states that whi= le the VCAT configuration mechanism proposed in draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat= -lcas provides for configuration of VCAT, it does not meet the conditions a= bove.  This stems from an assumption that the control plane used for the underlying connections is available for th= e signaling for the inverse multiplexing service (the draft calls this &quo= t;piggybacking").  This is not a safe assumption when the underly= ing connections are provided by a separate business entity, it is possible that:
&nb= sp;- the endpoints of the underlying connections are statically config= ured (e.g. a control plane may or may not be used in the middle but is defi= nitely not available to the endpoint.  This is similar to the use case described in draft-jenkins-mpls-tp-bt-requirements)=
&nb= sp;- this entity may not be interested in providing the end-to-end s= ignaling of anything other than the individual STS-1s (i.e. it will not pas= s the NOTIFY containing CALL setup).
Hence, the proposal of th= is alternate method.
 
My co-author and myself w= ould appreciate the review of this draft by CCAMP participants an= d any comments you may have.  Please feel free to send them on or off = list.
 
Jonathan Sadler
 
--_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05EXNAPtellabsw_-- From db3546@att.com Thu Nov 12 17:22:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A2D3A6808 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:22:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMrl-8p4vOZ5 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:22:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64C7C3A6358 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:22:40 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: db3546@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1258075388!17126968!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 29261 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2009 01:23:09 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-9.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2009 01:23:09 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAD1N76M006657 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:23:07 -0500 Received: from gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com (gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com [135.53.26.19]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAD1N1N6006636 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:23:01 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:21:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying Thread-Index: Acpj/vg/eUTRqDKAQL+3ORapc6H04wAAF/LA From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" To: Subject: [CCAMP] FW: WGLC for draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:22:41 -0000 Note - A LC on this document has started: >----- Original Message ----- From: "James M. Polk" >To: "tsvwg" >Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:21 AM >Subject: [tsvwg] WGLC for draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying > > >>TSVWG >> >>This is to announce a WGLC for >> >>draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkeying-05 >> >>at this URL on the tools page: >>http://tools.ietf.org/wg/tsvwg/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rsvp-security-groupkey ing/ >> >>Please review the latest version posted there. >> >>This WGLC will start immediately, and end 3 weeks after the end of=20 >>IETF76, meaning it ends at 1700 EST on December 4th, 2009. The=20 >>extra week is here due to a major US holiday (US Thanksgiving). >> >>I am the document's shephard. >> >>Please review and comment on this ID, even if just a "this is good"=20 >>or "this is ready to go"-style of post to the TSVWG list. Positive=20 >>feedback is a good thing for us chairs to help judge interest and=20 >>worthiness of our efforts. >> >>Thank you >> >>James >>Gorry >>TSVWG chairs >> From Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be Sat Nov 14 08:18:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A143A683A for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:18:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.168, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFl0cByg7Ury for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.42]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079113A659B for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [155.132.6.75]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/ICT) with ESMTP id nAEGJNYi031278 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:19:23 +0100 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.54]) by FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:19:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6546.39CFA089" Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:19:22 +0100 Message-ID: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A3803689484@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Monitoring control Thread-Index: AcplRMyQ4a4GRk24SrOkOMXlnCmxJw== From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2009 16:19:22.0809 (UTC) FILETIME=[39F71290:01CA6546] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 155.132.188.84 Subject: [CCAMP] Monitoring control X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:18:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6546.39CFA089 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, =09 During this meeting it appeared we have reached a limit in terms of functionality associated to messaging and processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP Attributes in particular for their re-use in context of monitoring control. The first should be limited to "topological/spatial information" and the latter to attributes associated to the whole "path" (no distinction of the individual hops). So, if monitoring control can accommodate configuration non-simultaneously with the signaling of the path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of thinking for monitoring control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.) messaging and processing: - Monitoring control message should only be processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist (at MP) and should be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the form of a route object) so as to "skip" hops that are not MPs. - Monitoring control message should only be processed by MPs whose identity can be gathered from RRO (one may use the object to tag MP) but not limited to. - Monitoring control message (and objects it carries) should not functionaly overlap with already defined in Path/Resv and associated objects. - To cope with "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP (abstract nodes), the monitoring control message should be able to carry a monitoring profile relayed by each AS/area. - The Path message shall make clear if the actual LSP will only be activated once monitoring setup is completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored LSP (that may subsequently configured to be monitored). - As there is a decoupling between LSP and monitoring setup, if the control message is not received at MP a notification should trigger the sender/head-end. - The directionality of the LSP setup shall not interfere with the exchange of the OAM message exchanges=20 These are just ideas as I considered that after my comment on the mike proposing a possible way forward would be helpful. Comments appreciated. -dimitri. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6546.39CFA089 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Monitoring control

Hi,
        =
During this = meeting it appeared we have reached a limit in terms of functionality = associated to messaging and processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP = Attributes in particular for their re-use in context of monitoring = control. The first should be limited to "topological/spatial = information" and the latter to attributes associated to the whole = "path" (no distinction of the individual = hops).

So, if = monitoring control can accommodate configuration non-simultaneously with = the signaling of the path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of = thinking for monitoring control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.) = messaging and processing:

- Monitoring = control message should only be processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist = (at MP) and should be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the = form of a route object) so as to "skip" hops that are not = MPs.

- Monitoring = control message should only be processed by MPs whose identity can be = gathered from RRO (one may use the object to tag MP) but not limited = to.

- Monitoring = control message (and objects it carries) should not functionaly overlap = with already defined in Path/Resv and associated = objects.

- To cope = with "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP (abstract nodes), = the monitoring control message should be able to carry a monitoring = profile relayed by each AS/area.

- The Path = message shall make clear if the actual LSP will only be activated once = monitoring setup is completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored = LSP (that may subsequently configured to be = monitored).

- As there = is a decoupling between LSP and monitoring setup, if the control message = is not received at MP a notification should trigger the = sender/head-end.

- The = directionality of the LSP setup shall not interfere with the exchange of = the OAM message exchanges

These are = just ideas as I considered that after my comment on the mike proposing a = possible way forward would be helpful.

Comments = appreciated.
-dimitri.




------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6546.39CFA089-- From SDSHEW@nortel.com Mon Nov 16 13:42:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DCC3A67B2 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:42:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5-bvLRyosFbe for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com (zrtps0kp.nortel.com [47.140.192.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FC573A688B for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com (zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com [47.129.230.99]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id nAGLgV713865 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:42:31 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6705.B1B1D3C0" Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 16:42:28 -0500 Message-ID: <90243C8A881F8D419D855264D9636F3A02452B75@zcarhxm2.corp.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Request for review: draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 Thread-Index: AQHKY0U76zerOBKhxke31sejCMhytZE5PekA References: <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F05@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> From: "Stephen Shew" To: Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Request for review: draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:42:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6705.B1B1D3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jonathan, I support the proposal in draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 as I agree with the independence assumptions between the inverse mux group and possible constituents of the group. Signalling protocols I have worked on have been quite careful to not support carriage of information that is not strictly associated with just the service as it could compromise the value/revenue of the payload itself and possibly be a security hole. From a design perspective, if the inverse mux service itself is a constituent of an inverse mux, then you get into the problem of larger and larger signalling messages if the piggybacking method is used. =20 Stephen ________________________________ From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sadler, Jonathan B. Sent: 11 November, 2009 22:07 To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] Request for review: draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 Hello all, =20 In today's CCAMP session, I presented a draft that was mentioned in the liaison from the OIF on signaling for inverse multiplexing groups. This draft can be found here: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00.txt =20 As mentioned in section 3 of the draft as well as the presentation, this is being proposed as a generalized mechanism that can be used by different technologies (e.g. IEEE 802.1AX, BONDING or IMA configuration) as well as different business relationships between the: - provider of the underlying connections - provider of the inverse multiplexing service - provider of the end-to-end service which in part is utilizing the inverse multiplexing service =20 The draft states that while the VCAT configuration mechanism proposed in draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas provides for configuration of VCAT, it does not meet the conditions above. This stems from an assumption that the control plane used for the underlying connections is available for the signaling for the inverse multiplexing service (the draft calls this "piggybacking"). This is not a safe assumption when the underlying connections are provided by a separate business entity, it is possible that: - the endpoints of the underlying connections are statically configured (e.g. a control plane may or may not be used in the middle but is definitely not available to the endpoint. This is similar to the use case described in draft-jenkins-mpls-tp-bt-requirements) - this entity may not be interested in providing the end-to-end signaling of anything other than the individual STS-1s (i.e. it will not pass the NOTIFY containing CALL setup). Hence, the proposal of this alternate method. =20 My co-author and myself would appreciate the review of this draft by CCAMP participants and any comments you may have. Please feel free to send them on or off list. =20 Jonathan Sadler =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6705.B1B1D3C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jonathan, I support the proposal in=20 draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00 as I agree with the independence = assumptions=20 between the inverse mux group and possible constituents of the = group. =20 Signalling protocols I have worked on have been quite careful to not = support=20 carriage of information that is not strictly associated with just the = service as=20 it could compromise the value/revenue of the payload itself and possibly = be a=20 security hole.  From a design perspective, if the inverse mux = service=20 itself is a constituent of an inverse mux, then you get into the problem = of=20 larger and larger signalling messages if the piggybacking method is=20 used.
 
Stephen

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sadler, Jonathan=20 B.
Sent: 11 November, 2009 22:07
To:=20 ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] Request for review:=20 draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00

Hello = all,
 
In today's CCAMP session, I = presented a=20 draft that was mentioned in the liaison from the OIF on signaling = for=20 inverse multiplexing groups.  This draft can be found = here:
  htt= p://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roch-ccamp-gmpls-inv-mux-00.txt
 
As mentioned in section 3 of = the=20 draft as well as the presentation, this is being proposed as a = generalized mechanism that can be used by different technologies (e.g. = IEEE=20 802.1AX, BONDING or IMA configuration) as well as different = business=20 relationships between the:
 - provider of the = underlying=20 connections
 - provider of the = inverse=20 multiplexing service
 - provider of the = end-to-end service=20 which in part is utilizing the inverse multiplexing service
 
The draft states that while = the VCAT=20 configuration mechanism proposed in draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas = provides=20 for configuration of VCAT, it does not meet the conditions above. =20 This stems from an assumption that the control plane used = for the=20 underlying connections is available for the signaling for the = inverse=20 multiplexing service (the draft calls this "piggybacking").  This = is not a=20 safe assumption when the underlying connections are provided by a = separate=20 business entity, it is possible that:
 - = the endpoints of=20 the underlying connections are statically configured (e.g. a = control plane=20 may or may not be used in the middle but is definitely not available to = the=20 endpoint.  This is similar to the use case described in=20 draft-jenkins-mpls-tp-bt-requirements)
 - = this=20 entity may not be interested in providing the end-to-end signaling of = anything=20 other than the individual STS-1s (i.e. it will not pass the NOTIFY = containing=20 CALL setup).
Hence, the proposal of = this alternate=20 method.
 
My co-author and myself = would appreciate=20 the review of this draft by CCAMP participants and any = comments you=20 may have.  Please feel free to send them on or off = list.
 
Jonathan Sadler
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6705.B1B1D3C0-- From Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com Tue Nov 17 09:09:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8703A6876 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:09:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jBg7NOxAWgej for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:09:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE303A69B5 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:09:48 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b7b90ae000005e1e-20-4b02d8d9eb6d Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 51.1A.24094.9D8D20B4; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:09:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:08:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA67A8.91AE89F4" Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:08:22 +0100 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E910900641A@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A3803689484@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Monitoring control Thread-Index: AcplRMyQ4a4GRk24SrOkOMXlnCmxJwCWjahw References: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A3803689484@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> From: "Attila Takacs" To: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2009 17:08:25.0827 (UTC) FILETIME=[93613B30:01CA67A8] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Monitoring control X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 17:09:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA67A8.91AE89F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dimitri, Thanks for the summary! Please see my comments inline. =20 =20 ________________________________ From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 5:19 PM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] Monitoring control =09 =09 Hi,=20 =20 During this meeting it appeared we have reached a limit in terms of functionality associated to messaging and processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP Attributes in particular for their re-use in context of monitoring control. The first should be limited to "topological/spatial information" and the latter to attributes associated to the whole "path" (no distinction of the individual hops).=20 I see two use-cases where specific configuration of intermediate nodes along the LSP may be needed. One is the configuration of some OAM functions like TCM and maybe some MIP functions. The other area is WSON aspects discussed in section 4 of draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-05. =20 So, if monitoring control can accommodate configuration non-simultaneously with the signaling of the path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of thinking for monitoring control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.) messaging and processing:=20 =20 - Monitoring control message should only be processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist (at MP) and should be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the form of a route object) so as to "skip" hops that are not MPs.=20 You seem to suggest a separate message exchange for OAM after LSP setup. I do not think this is needed, OAM configuration, even if intermediate nodes would have to be configured, is sequential and follows exactly the steps of LSP setup and Path/Resv processing. Exactly this is the value in binding OAM configuration to LSP signaling.=20 I doubt that selective intermediate node configuration would be extensively used for multiple hops of an LSP; I think it is more realistic to assume that only a subset of LSPs will actually require intermediate node configuration and even for those LSPs only a very limited number of intermediate nodes will have to be configured selectively. Thanks, Attila =20 - Monitoring control message should only be processed by MPs whose identity can be gathered from RRO (one may use the object to tag MP) but not limited to.=20 - Monitoring control message (and objects it carries) should not functionaly overlap with already defined in Path/Resv and associated objects. .=20 - To cope with "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP (abstract nodes), the monitoring control message should be able to carry a monitoring profile relayed by each AS/area.=20 - The Path message shall make clear if the actual LSP will only be activated once monitoring setup is completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored LSP (that may subsequently configured to be monitored). - As there is a decoupling between LSP and monitoring setup, if the control message is not received at MP a notification should trigger the sender/head-end. - The directionality of the LSP setup shall not interfere with the exchange of the OAM message exchanges=20 These are just ideas as I considered that after my comment on the mike proposing a possible way forward would be helpful. Comments appreciated.=20 -dimitri.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA67A8.91AE89F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Monitoring control
Hi=20 Dimitri,
Thanks=20 for the summary!
Please=20 see my comments inline.
 
 

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of PAPADIMITRIOU=20 Dimitri
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 5:19 = PM
To:=20 ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] Monitoring=20 control

Hi,=20
       =20
During this=20 meeting it appeared we have reached a limit in terms of functionality=20 associated to messaging and processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP = Attributes=20 in particular for their re-use in context of monitoring control. The = first=20 should be limited to "topological/spatial information" and the latter = to=20 attributes associated to the whole "path" (no distinction of the = individual=20 hops). 

I see two use-cases = where specific=20 configuration of intermediate nodes along the LSP may be needed. One is=20 the configuration of some OAM functions like TCM and maybe some MIP = functions. The other area is WSON aspects discussed in section 4 of = draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-05.  

So, if = monitoring=20 control can accommodate configuration non-simultaneously with the = signaling of=20 the path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of thinking for = monitoring=20 control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.) messaging and = processing: 

 

- = Monitoring control=20 message should only be processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist (at = MP) and=20 should be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the form of a = route=20 object) so as to "skip" hops that are not MPs. 

You seem to = suggest a=20 separate message exchange for OAM after LSP setup. I do not think this = is=20 needed, OAM configuration, even if intermediate nodes would have to = be=20 configured, is sequential and follows exactly the steps of LSP setup and = Path/Resv processing. Exactly this is the value in binding OAM = configuration to LSP signaling.=20

I doubt that = selective=20 intermediate node configuration would be extensively used for = multiple hops=20 of an LSP; I think it is more realistic to assume that only a subset of = LSPs=20 will actually require intermediate node configuration and = even for=20 those LSPs only a very limited number of intermediate nodes will have to = be=20 configured=20 selectively.

Thanks,
Attila

 

- = Monitoring control=20 message should only be processed by MPs whose identity can be gathered = from=20 RRO (one may use the object to tag MP) but not limited to. 

- = Monitoring control=20 message (and objects it carries) should not functionaly overlap with = already=20 defined in Path/Resv and associated objects. . 

- To = cope with=20 "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP (abstract nodes), the monitoring control = message=20 should be able to carry a monitoring profile relayed by each = AS/area. 

- The Path = message shall=20 make clear if the actual LSP will only be activated once monitoring = setup is=20 completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored LSP (that may = subsequently=20 configured to be monitored).

- As there = is a decoupling=20 between LSP and monitoring setup, if the control message is not = received at MP=20 a notification should trigger the sender/head-end.

- The = directionality of=20 the LSP setup shall not interfere with the exchange of the OAM message = exchanges

These are = just ideas as I=20 considered that after my comment on the mike proposing a possible way = forward=20 would be helpful.

Comments=20 appreciated.
-dimitri. =




------_=_NextPart_001_01CA67A8.91AE89F4-- From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Tue Nov 17 12:48:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E763A6AE5 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=2.077] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rAXEi-JDY2Bi for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f189.google.com (mail-yw0-f189.google.com [209.85.211.189]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFBF3A6810 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by ywh27 with SMTP id 27so418741ywh.31 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=JC3tSK/54rPEzXCuci7b5HdB31a0d/vRMMBF4g9PQtg=; b=d5J484gcWOGHBur8AIvosJF22xTdqvLmsGG8LLvsP43EgC28IOFLtQmysegBS3wxsZ jcVcdBcCzmV9iMZNzYBhMdmv7IC+++gKIcv2wDt2ywuVQBtD+K4pHiDGKXGQEHR79DEa HDJHHgGYYIT8HHEmykhEn3EY/Zwdbx3obfH30= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Y0cf4zdFB0I1xcpzaW755EHwnfrwAHzhtZBTdZ1WHvRAuNraDvDo/cTiKjK6QpYhaY Jyyfif+r+wUoUUcZ63kd+CSS97ok0qBm1QLJFJrAFznjUUjhdrUMqDdRRBNVeRLq81bB npeqxpDRro5Pe0eRP7s0dZ0hXN2VAuekP6RMI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.46.21 with SMTP id t21mr828880ybt.234.1258490918261; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:48:38 -0800 Message-ID: <77ead0ec0911171248h711631b9o4505a83ccf0e9c61@mail.gmail.com> From: Vishwas Manral To: ccamp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: [CCAMP] LMP RFC4204 X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:48:45 -0000 Hi, I am not sure if I asked this question earlier but in LMP CC Parameter negotiation, how do we disambiguate the case where we want different control channels between the same pair of nodes and the case where: It is possible that both the local and remote nodes initiate the configuration procedure at the same time. To avoid ambiguities, the node with the higher Node_Id wins the contention; the node with the lower Node_Id MUST stop transmitting the Config message and respond to the Config message it received. Thanks, Vishwas From Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be Tue Nov 17 14:17:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D134C3A6B1C for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:17:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c5WyF24Vga3f for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail3.alcatel.fr (smail3.alcatel.fr [62.23.212.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF1F3A69F6 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com (frvelsbhs03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [155.132.6.75]) by smail3.alcatel.fr (8.13.8/8.13.8/ICT) with ESMTP id nAHMHYUq021856; Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:17:34 +0100 Received: from FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com ([155.132.6.53]) by FRVELSBHS03.ad2.ad.alcatel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:17:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:17:33 +0100 Message-ID: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A380368A1BE@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> In-Reply-To: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E910900641A@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Monitoring control Thread-Index: AcplRMyQ4a4GRk24SrOkOMXlnCmxJwCWjahwAAKLaUA= References: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A3803689484@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E910900641A@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" To: "Attila Takacs" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2009 22:17:34.0324 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3254340:01CA67D3] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 155.132.188.83 Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Monitoring control X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:17:39 -0000 Hi Attila, [snip headers] =20 During this meeting it appeared we have reached a limit in terms of functionality associated to messaging and processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP Attributes in particular for their re-use in context of monitoring control. The first should be limited to "topological/spatial information" and the latter to attributes associated to the whole "path" (no distinction of the individual hops).=20 I see two use-cases where specific configuration of intermediate nodes along the LSP may be needed. One is the configuration of some OAM functions like TCM and maybe some MIP functions. The other area is WSON aspects discussed in section 4 of draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-05. [dp] my opinion here is to design monitoring control toward commonality. the point is that I do not know up to which the level one can assume this commonality when "spectral" routing constraints needs to be taken into account. for traffic engineering application that do rely on spatial informations I am close to think this level can be quite high. So, if monitoring control can accommodate configuration non-simultaneously with the signaling of the path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of thinking for monitoring control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.) messaging and processing:=20 =20 - Monitoring control message should only be processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist (at MP) and should be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the form of a route object) so as to "skip" hops that are not MPs.=20 You seem to suggest a separate message exchange for OAM after LSP setup. [dp] Not necessarily but if kept bundled there is a need to limit "impact" on signaling in the context of traffic engineering. I would say if an existing "message" is re-used with a different sequence of hops this would be an hybrid approach. As food for thought please take a look at RFC 2745. I do not think this is needed, OAM configuration, even if intermediate nodes would have to be configured, is sequential and follows exactly the steps of LSP setup and Path/Resv processing. Exactly this is the value in binding OAM configuration to LSP signaling.=20 [dp] Actually, there is a tradeoff here that shall be understood (between messaging, processing, timing/efficiency, robustness, complexity), e.g., the overhead per LSP is minimal when all "hops" are MPs and maximal only when one of them needs to be "configured" (or even none).=20 I doubt that selective intermediate node configuration would be extensively used for multiple hops of an LSP; I think it is more realistic to assume that only a subset of LSPs will actually require intermediate node configuration and even for those LSPs only a very limited number of intermediate nodes will have to be configured selectively. [dp] Is this estimation robust over time ? I mean you assume that only "part" of the number of LSPs would be monitored. Thus, it is the application that would "limit" the overhead not the protocol design.=20 [dp] Shall I assume that you do not have comments on the other points ? Thanks, Attila =09 =20 - Monitoring control message should only be processed by MPs whose identity can be gathered from RRO (one may use the object to tag MP) but not limited to.=20 - Monitoring control message (and objects it carries) should not functionaly overlap with already defined in Path/Resv and associated objects. .=20 - To cope with "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP (abstract nodes), the monitoring control message should be able to carry a monitoring profile relayed by each AS/area.=20 - The Path message shall make clear if the actual LSP will only be activated once monitoring setup is completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored LSP (that may subsequently configured to be monitored). - As there is a decoupling between LSP and monitoring setup, if the control message is not received at MP a notification should trigger the sender/head-end. - The directionality of the LSP setup shall not interfere with the exchange of the OAM message exchanges=20 These are just ideas as I considered that after my comment on the mike proposing a possible way forward would be helpful. Comments appreciated.=20 -dimitri.=20 From lberger@labn.net Thu Nov 19 10:39:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 376303A69FC for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VglLIxjjvJPu for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-12.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-12.bluehost.com [69.89.18.112]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E68AC3A69FA for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3024 invoked by uid 0); 19 Nov 2009 18:39:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 19 Nov 2009 18:39:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=jV7NPjycNJwklZLbevrXYOrWG2RY8UIHtDYdL9EpkZbZoQ0kSyrPQM+WR6nvl5JIl5UiN0jiIdt+Imqa9AHfeaC4m3jwMczIRGyCv0Hhc/6rJIbIcQ38m5Ub6NEOeRxv; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBBuV-0008J6-Gq for ccamp@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:39:15 -0700 Message-ID: <4B0590E5.3000005@labn.net> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:39:33 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: [CCAMP] Continuing the charter discussion from last week X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:39:19 -0000 All, In last week's meeting we began a discussion on updating the WG's charter. In that discussion we said that we'd post the proposed revisions to the list and solicit additional feedback. This message serves that purpose. Please review and comment on the proposed new charter enclosed below. See the slides from the session for diffs: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/76/slides/ccamp-29.ppt Please send comments as soon as possible as we'd like to conclude the charter discussion in approximately 2 weeks. Thank you, Lou (and Deborah) ----------------------------------------------------------- Proposed charter - Rev Nov 19, 2009 Additional information is available at tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp Chair(s): • Deborah Brungard • Lou Berger Routing Area Director(s): • Ross Callon • Adrian Farrel Routing Area Advisor: • Adrian Farrel Secretary(ies): • Daniel King Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ccamp@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ccamp/current/maillist.html Description of Working Group: Organizational Overview The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the MPLS WG. In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. CCAMP WG work scope includes: - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. - Definition of and extensions to protocols for link and path attribute measurement. This includes the Link Management Protocol (LMP). - Functional specification of extensions for GMPLS-related routing (OSPF, ISIS) and signaling (RSVP-TE) protocols required for path establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those protocols. - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). - Definition of management objects (e.g., as part of MIB modules) and control of OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions specified within the WG. - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed data paths for data planes that are already approved by a Standards Development Organization (SDO). Note that the specification or modification of data planes is out of scope of this working group. Example data planes include Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON), Optical Transport Networks (OTN), Ethernet, and the MPLS data plane. - Work on GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support the transport profile of MPLS (MPLS-TP) in cooperation with the MPLS, L2VPN, and PWE3 Working Group and in coordination with the requirements expressed jointly by the IETF and ITU-T. CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a measurement protocol (or by other means e.g. configured) can be distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and IS-IS. CCAMP will work with the WGs that supervise these protocols. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being addressed in the ISIS WG. Current work activities are focused in the areas of WSON and OTN. - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the PCE and MPLS WGs. - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path protection. Specify signaling mechanisms for path protection, diverse routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined signaling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in combination. - Identify signaling and routing requirements for supporting extensions to data plane technologies (e.g., WSON, OTN, MPLS-TP, and Ethernet) and network architectures (e.g. ITU-T’s Automatically Switched Optical Network (ASON)) not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. This activity will build on documents produced by the WG, including Informational, Standards Track and Experimental documents. - Produce extensions to the CCAMP WG protocols and RFCs necessary to create an MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS TP). The work on the MPLS TP will be coordinated between the MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, and CCAMP working groups that are jointly chartered to do MPLS TP work. In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following other WGs: MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, and PCE. The WG will also cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. Goals and Milestones: Dec 2009 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review Dec 2009 Submit TE MIB module IESG review Dec 2009 Submit Ethernet related drafts for IESG review Dec 2009 Submit hierarchy bis for IESG review Jan 2010 First version of WSON routing related Working Group drafts Feb 2010 Submit VCAT/LCAS with GMPLS for IESG review Apr 2010 First versions of impairments related solutions Working Group drafts Apr 2010 First version of G.709 enhancements framework Working Group drafts Apr 2010 First version of Working Group draft providing Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP Apr 2010 First version of LMP Negotiation Working Group draft May 2010 Submit Lambda labels draft for IESG review May 2010 Submit WSON framework draft for IESG review May 2010 Submit WSON impairment framework draft for IESG review May 2010 Submit OAM configuration framework for IESG review May 2010 First version of OAM configuration solutions Working Group drafts Aug 2010 First version of G.709 enhancements solutions Working Group drafts Aug 2010 First version of LMP for G.709 enhancements Working Group drafts Sep 2010 First version of Working Group draft defining RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP Dec 2010 Submit WSON routing related for IESG review Dec 2010 Submit impairments related solutions for IESG review Dec 2010 Submit G.709 enhancements framework for IESG review Dec 2010 Submit Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP for IESG review Mar 2011 Submit RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP for IESG review Apr 2011 Submit G.709 enhancements solutions for IESG review Apr 2011 Submit LMP Negotiation for IESG review Apr 2011 Submit last OAM configuration solutions for IESG review Aug 2011 Submit LMP for G.709 enhancements for IESG review Nov 2011 Recharter or close Working Group From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Thu Nov 19 10:43:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C6C3A677E for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.451 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.451 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.148, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tma8yy64nkWA for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f183.google.com (mail-yw0-f183.google.com [209.85.211.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46033A6774 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by ywh13 with SMTP id 13so3014275ywh.29 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GZum9QG8jKotJn7dCXvWfgTB0rjQVyc2TU0sCa0/ftg=; b=xM84xSD8o7CGscj/r71Y5bej/y1GDwtN3ozlBJEGSwplavmw9DhgYPQAqJE7DrUONu gDJ/DwuzY2704aFg948tazqidKiUG+0fBimPu/z0N+hfFuCxyitc8RJanjXCEmu+uddr 8KB0zb0xHFFiJ4PZhAHdvMoEf7jRaqXmI8kT4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=H7eBefwYs3TDbWz9zFx0kiQUTrZtm7R29WNGlldFUyOdWTyn/H1WCBLZKXt/LLPtAi nxhq2MTnAV00PiV4hKDT8v1nIvjRJgFoh0wZBPx+2PXwoBFjeOHvJCKVxDfU3bgU+Xzo rAF6qTvVahHL/yb8G6wpaiobFX88UnZu82pkY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.21.22 with SMTP id 22mr775693ybu.36.1258656196401; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <77ead0ec0911171248h711631b9o4505a83ccf0e9c61@mail.gmail.com> References: <77ead0ec0911171248h711631b9o4505a83ccf0e9c61@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:43:15 -0800 Message-ID: <77ead0ec0911191043l3507d524ia9a04c829218046b@mail.gmail.com> From: Vishwas Manral To: ccamp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Subject: Re: [CCAMP] LMP RFC4204 X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:43:22 -0000 Hi folks, Resending just in case the mail got lost in transit. Thanks, Vishwas On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Vishwas Manral wrote: > Hi, > > I am not sure if I asked this question earlier but in LMP CC Parameter > negotiation, how do we disambiguate the case where we want different > control channels between the same pair of nodes and the case where: > > It is possible that both the local and remote nodes initiate the > configuration procedure at the same time. To avoid ambiguities, the > node with the higher Node_Id wins the contention; the node with the > lower Node_Id MUST stop transmitting the Config message and respond to > the Config message it received. > > Thanks, > Vishwas > From Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com Fri Nov 20 06:17:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6971B28C12B for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:17:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mfaod+gJ-uFV for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:17:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A81E3A6816 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:17:53 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b7b90ae000005e1e-f7-4b06a50cfaa8 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E3.37.24094.C05A60B4; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:17:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:17:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:17:46 +0100 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91090B6971@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A380368A1BE@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Monitoring control Thread-Index: AcplRMyQ4a4GRk24SrOkOMXlnCmxJwCWjahwAAKLaUAAT1G5MA== References: <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A3803689484@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E910900641A@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> <00275A5B436CA441900CB10936742A380368A1BE@FRVELSMBS22.ad2.ad.alcatel.com> From: "Attila Takacs" To: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2009 14:17:48.0429 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CA783D0:01CA69EC] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Monitoring control X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:17:55 -0000 Hi Dimitri,=20 =20 > During this meeting it appeared we have reached=20 > a limit in terms of functionality associated to messaging and=20 > processing of extended ERO/RRO and LSP Attributes in=20 > particular for their re-use in context of monitoring control.=20 > The first should be limited to "topological/spatial=20 > information" and the latter to attributes associated to the=20 > whole "path" (no distinction of the individual hops).=20 >=20 > I see two use-cases where specific configuration of=20 > intermediate nodes along the LSP may be needed. One is the=20 > configuration of some OAM functions like TCM and maybe some=20 > MIP functions. The other area is WSON aspects discussed in=20 > section 4 of draft-bernstein-ccamp-wson-signaling-05. >=20 > [dp] my opinion here is to design monitoring control toward=20 > commonality. > the point is that I do not know up to which the level one can=20 > assume this commonality when "spectral" routing constraints=20 > needs to be taken into account. for traffic engineering=20 > application that do rely on spatial informations I am close=20 > to think this level can be quite high. >=20 [at] OAM and WSON aspects are different, but if the mechanisms are similar then they could make use of a similar solution to carry intermediate node configuration. There are a set of different question here,=20 - do we need a way to add support to carry per hop configuration info into RSVP-TE =3Dthere seems to be a case for this - if so, what kind of info (e.g., complexity) we need to consider=20 =3Dthis likely varies for each use case - find the right place for each type of configuration info =3Dthere may be simple info (like falgs or a few fields) and more complex descriptors =3Dwhat to put where is use case dependent For OAM, ERO seems to me to be a good candidate. I will look at the scalability issues raised at the meeting when using the ERO; I guess there are functions that will fit into ERO/RRO without causing problems, however if there are cases that require a lot of configuration an alternative solution could be useful. The WSON case needs to be evaluated separately. > So, if monitoring control can accommodate=20 > configuration non-simultaneously with the signaling of the=20 > path, I suggest to devise a couple of lines of thinking for=20 > monitoring control (incl. configuration, activation, etc.)=20 > messaging and processing:=20 >=20 > =20 > - Monitoring control message should only be=20 > processed if corresponding PSB/RSB exist (at MP) and should=20 > be targeted with a sequence of MP's (can take the form of a=20 > route object) so as to "skip" > hops that are not MPs.=20 >=20 > You seem to suggest a separate message exchange for OAM=20 > after LSP setup. >=20 > [dp] Not necessarily but if kept bundled there is a need to=20 > limit "impact" on signaling in the context of traffic=20 > engineering. I would say if an existing "message" is re-used=20 > with a different sequence of hops this would be an hybrid=20 > approach. As food for thought please take a look at RFC 2745. >=20 [at] It was an interesting reading. There might be cases where an additional way to carry info could be useful. > I do not think this is needed, OAM configuration, even if=20 > intermediate nodes would have to be configured, is sequential=20 > and follows exactly the steps of LSP setup and Path/Resv=20 > processing. Exactly this is the value in binding OAM=20 > configuration to LSP signaling.=20 >=20 > [dp] Actually, there is a tradeoff here that shall be=20 > understood (between messaging, processing, timing/efficiency,=20 > robustness, complexity), e.g., the overhead per LSP is=20 > minimal when all "hops" are MPs and maximal only when one of=20 > them needs to be "configured" (or even none).=20 >=20 [at] Right, if the MPs you have in mind are the MIPs, then configuring MIPs everywhere or nowhere could be as simple as a single bit. If we need to configure something on some of the MIPs then depending on the amount of info message size/processing incereases. > I doubt that selective intermediate node configuration=20 > would be extensively used for multiple hops of an LSP; I=20 > think it is more realistic to assume that only a subset of=20 > LSPs will actually require intermediate node configuration=20 > and even for those LSPs only a very limited number of=20 > intermediate nodes will have to be configured selectively. >=20 > [dp] Is this estimation robust over time ? I mean you assume=20 > that only "part" of the number of LSPs would be monitored.=20 > Thus, it is the application that would "limit" the overhead=20 > not the protocol design.=20 >=20 [at] After a point, shooting for too much generality we could end up with a too complex solution. I guess having an assumption on the amount of configuration needed in general and in the case of extremes is helpful, we could have a simple process for most of the time.=20 > [dp] Shall I assume that you do not have comments on the=20 > other points ? >=20 [at] Those depend on the assumption of using separate signalling steps, so we should clear this one first. > Thanks, > Attila > =09 > =20 >=20 > - Monitoring control message should only be=20 > processed by MPs whose identity can be gathered from RRO (one=20 > may use the object to tag MP) but not limited to.=20 >=20 > - Monitoring control message (and objects it=20 > carries) should not functionaly overlap with already defined=20 > in Path/Resv and associated objects. .=20 >=20 > - To cope with "multi-AS"/"multi-area" LSP=20 > (abstract nodes), the monitoring control message should be=20 > able to carry a monitoring profile relayed by each AS/area.=20 >=20 > - The Path message shall make clear if the=20 > actual LSP will only be activated once monitoring setup is=20 > completed or not. this allows to have unmonitored LSP (that=20 > may subsequently configured to be monitored). >=20 > - As there is a decoupling between LSP and=20 > monitoring setup, if the control message is not received at=20 > MP a notification should trigger the sender/head-end. >=20 > - The directionality of the LSP setup shall not=20 > interfere with the exchange of the OAM message exchanges=20 >=20 > These are just ideas as I considered that after=20 > my comment on the mike proposing a possible way forward would=20 > be helpful. >=20 > Comments appreciated.=20 > -dimitri.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From daniel@olddog.co.uk Fri Nov 20 10:21:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F693A6919 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VSqLgn9iLyBE for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F333A68DD for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nAKILOcH009129 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:21:29 GMT Received: from Serenity (88-97-23-122.dsl.zen.co.uk [88.97.23.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id nAKILNw6009121 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:21:23 GMT From: "Daniel King" To: Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:21:24 -0000 Message-ID: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0155_01CA6A0E.44F4A2D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSg== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:21:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01CA6A0E.44F4A2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009. Br, Dan. ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01CA6A0E.44F4A2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello all,

 

The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions = are now available:

 

http://w= ww.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm

 

If you have any questions or amendment requests = please email me and CC the WG Chairs.  Please let me have these comments by = Friday, 4th December, 2009.   

 

Br, Dan.

------=_NextPart_000_0155_01CA6A0E.44F4A2D0-- From Lyong@Ciena.com Fri Nov 20 11:17:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8BF3A67E7 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:17:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WLgwlL6siXgo for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripley.ciena.com (ripley.ciena.com [63.118.34.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AFD3A67AA for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 11:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_10873_01CA69EC.1742C2D0" Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:16:44 -0500 Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Importance: normal Priority: normal Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/og References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk> From: "Ong, Lyndon" To: "Daniel King" , Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:17:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_10873_01CA69EC.1742C2D0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6A15.FF38D1AE" ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6A15.FF38D1AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Dan, =20 I would like to point out one correction, although the discussion is correctly recorded in the notes: in the discussion of ASON routing implementation and testing it was stated that "the document" (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working Group draft since 2003. Actually, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006. =20 Can a note be added to that effect? =20 Thanks, =20 Lyndon =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Daniel King Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hello all,=20 =20 The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: =20 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm =20 If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009. =20 =20 Br, Dan.=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6A15.FF38D1AE Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HI = Dan,

 

I would like to point = out one correction, although the discussion is correctly recorded in the notes:  in the discussion of ASON routing implementation and testing it was stated that = “the document” (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has = been a Working Group draft since 2003.  Actually, = draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006.

 

Can a note be added = to that effect?

 

Thanks,

 

Lyndon

 



From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Daniel King
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hello all, =

 

The CCAMP draft minutes for the = IETF 76 sessions are now available:

 

http://w= ww.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm

=

 

If you have any questions or = amendment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs.  Please let me have = these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009. =   

 

Br, Dan.


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ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73263A67BD for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:24:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9s9p8HhOuNbx for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:24:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from outbound-mail-05.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-05.bluehost.com [69.89.21.15]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 378183A6405 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:24:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16747 invoked by uid 0); 20 Nov 2009 20:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2009 20:23:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=ICSKGwoBUJOdzGOHVwqv8ULmXeZBFBQY8dtBzlmZxpPXkegaSNuKdrBtBXIeT1/YiCS78QuipvRXVxXEwWn5vXRAnXaxI2Gti7YS1k82xFKTjpJMXolW3eXuhjjSv5Lj; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBa1N-000358-Jp; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:23:57 -0700 Message-ID: <4B06FB22.8090301@labn.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:25:06 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CCAMP , draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas@tools.ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Subject: [CCAMP] Working group last call: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-08 X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:24:02 -0000 As discussed in last week's session, it's time for the working group to last call draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas-08.txt http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-vcat-lcas Please send your comments to the list or the authors&chairs before the last call closes in two weeks, on December 4, 2009. Thank you, Lou (and Deborah) From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com Fri Nov 20 12:49:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59413A688B for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:49:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wj9Rnj7Uo948 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx4.tellabs.com (mx4.tellabs.com [204.154.129.57]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2713A67BD for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:49:39 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.47,260,1257120000"; d="gif'147?scan'147,208,217,147";a="1302911909" Received: from usnvwwmspht02.hq.tellabs.com (HELO usnvwwmspht02.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net) ([172.23.211.70]) by mx4-priv.tellabs.com with ESMTP; 20 Nov 2009 20:48:31 +0000 Received: from EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net ([172.23.211.71]) by usnvwwmspht02.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net ([172.23.211.70]) with mapi; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:48:31 -0600 From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." To: "Ong, Lyndon" , Daniel King , "ccamp@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:44:31 -0600 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/ogAANjmbU= Message-ID: <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk>, <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29EXNAPtellabsw_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:49:41 -0000 --_004_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29EXNAPtellabsw_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29EXNAPtellabsw_" --_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29EXNAPtellabsw_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dan, A similar comment about the ason-routing draft only being available after J= une 2006 was also made in the CCAMP Jabber session. I assume that Jabber s= ession comments are also to be captured in the notes - correct? Jonathan Sadler ________________________________ From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ong, Lyn= don [Lyong@Ciena.com] Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:16 PM To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes HI Dan, I would like to point out one correction, although the discussion is correc= tly recorded in the notes: in the discussion of ASON routing implementatio= n and testing it was stated that =93the document=94 (referencing draft-ietf= -ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working Group draft since 2003. Actu= ally, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006. Can a note be added to that effect? Thanks, Lyndon [cid:image9596d3.gif@5456f4f5.eb714e88] From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of D= aniel King Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Hello all, The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC the = WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009= . Br, Dan. --_000_5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29EXNAPtellabsw_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dan,=
 
A similar comment about t= he ason-routing draft only being available after June 2006 was also made in= the CCAMP Jabber session.  I assume that Jabber session comments are = also to be captured in the notes - correct?
 
Jonathan Sadler
 
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ong, Lyndon [Lyong@Ciena.com]
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:16 PM
To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes

HI Dan,

 

I would like to point= out one correction, although the discussion is correctly recorded in the n= otes:  in the discussion of ASON routing implementation and testing it= was stated that =93the document=94 (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working Group draft since = 2003.  Actually, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated J= uly 2006.

 

Can a note be added t= o that effect?

 

Thanks,

 

Lyndon

 


3D""

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@i= etf.org] On Behalf Of Daniel King
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes

 

Hello all,

 

The CCAMP draft minutes for the= IETF 76 sessions are now available:

 

http://www.ietf.org/= proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm

 

If you have any questions or am= endment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs.  Please let me = have these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009.   <= /span>

 

Br, Dan.


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Received: (qmail 20020 invoked by uid 0); 20 Nov 2009 21:01:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Nov 2009 21:01:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=labn.net; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Identified-User; b=yiksW9pikOTiqYZnUcGpeFE8wY+sXaEL0p45ea2vOqzWF72WTpR9hVXuIV5daub33c8qZZBbg90BmsjXoNAAy4BBCLXliGBMLdN2MNupA7iB4qwh7srZPUQeuzqeGhZY; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NBabu-0003WG-06; Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:01:42 -0700 Message-ID: <4B0703FA.1010102@labn.net> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:02:50 -0500 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.1) Gecko/20090902 Eudora/3.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk>, <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> In-Reply-To: <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B830F321F29@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "Ong, Lyndon" , "ccamp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:01:45 -0000 In general the minutes and jabber should be in sync, but only what was said at a mic will be in the minutes. This is why we have people "channel" (speak at the mic) for those who are not in the room. Jabber logs are available in the usual locations, i.e., via http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/. Lou On 11/20/2009 3:44 PM, Sadler, Jonathan B. wrote: > Hi Dan, > A similar comment about the ason-routing draft only being available > after June 2006 was also made in the CCAMP Jabber session. I assume that > Jabber session comments are also to be captured in the notes - correct? > Jonathan Sadler > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Ong, Lyndon [Lyong@Ciena.com] > *Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2009 1:16 PM > *To:* Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes > > HI Dan, > > I would like to point out one correction, although the discussion is > correctly recorded in the notes: in the discussion of ASON routing > implementation and testing it was stated that “the document” > (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working > Group draft since 2003. Actually, > draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006. > > Can a note be added to that effect? > > Thanks, > > Lyndon > > > > *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Daniel King > *Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM > *To:* ccamp@ietf.org > *Subject:* [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes > > Hello all, > > The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm > > If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC > the WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4^th > December, 2009. > > Br, Dan. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From db3546@att.com Mon Nov 23 11:33:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E0A3A68E9 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:33:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X3Tf99pXXzEo for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A75C73A68C3 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:33:37 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: db3546@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-15.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1259004811!25211454!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 26493 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2009 19:33:32 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-15.tower-120.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 23 Nov 2009 19:33:32 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nANJXTQS012706 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:33:29 -0500 Received: from gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com (gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com [135.53.26.19]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nANJXMFt012639 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:33:22 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C73.D223E8F9"; type="multipart/alternative" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:33:22 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/ogAJPgetA= References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk> <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" To: "Ong, Lyndon" , Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E45D3A67E7 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:01:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o8a0-lSF7SWn for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:01:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from hicks.ciena.com (hicks.ciena.com [63.118.34.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991A628C0EA for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:01:14 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap0EAFSHCks/dicV/2dsb2JhbACCUYF0lhOsCZAhgi2BO1QEgxk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C80.01B4DAF1" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:00:35 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283CE4@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/ogAJPgetAABN1m0A== Importance: normal References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk><0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> Priority: normal From: "Ong, Lyndon" To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A \(ATTLABS\)" , Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:01:16 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C80.01B4DAF1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C80.01B4DAF1" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C80.01B4DAF1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Deborah, =20 The specific statement in the minutes is: =E2=80=9Cthis document has = been a working group document since 2003=E2=80=9D, which is not = accurate. I would like to request that this statement either be = corrected or removed, since it is otherwise misleading. That=E2=80=99s = all. =20 As far as the history of this activity, that=E2=80=99s probably a long = drawn out discussion, but some key points are: - If you take a look at documentation on the OIF website = (http://www.oiforum.com/ OIF_demos.html), you will see that = experimentation with ASON routing started in 2003-2004, well before any = IETF work on formats to support ASON routing. My presentation = referenced 2007 and 2009 OIF Demos as the most recent ones, not meaning = to imply that they were the earliest. - OIF activities have been generally consistent with CCAMP work = on ASON requirements and evaluation documented in RFC 4258 and 4652. = These RFCs were the product of joint design teams including some OIF = participants - Where things diverge is with = draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf, which did not have any input from = outside of IETF and so was not a joint effort. I believe that a number = of the extensions defined in that draft are equivalent in functionality = to what has been implemented for the OIF Demos, but different in format, = hence the interest in seeing if there is any possibility of converging = on extensions that have already been tested as a way to move from = Experimental to Standards Track. Unfortunately, it sounds like the = possibility is nil=E2=80=A6 - Whether OIF will test the extensions in = draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf-09.txt in the future depends on the = input from its member companies. =20 =20 Hope this helps to clarify. =20 Cheers, =20 Lyndon =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:33 AM To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hi Lyndon, =20 The =E2=80=9CWorking Group document=E2=80=9D was answering the previous = comment questioning the status of the Experimental document. The 2003 = was referring to the history of ASON-routing as a work item in CCAMP = which was in response to your sentence: =E2=80=9Chowever implementation = and testing began before [OSPF-ASON] was defined.=E2=80=9D =20 To restate my question: =E2=80=9CWhy did OIF (independently) develop = ASON routing extensions while CCAMP=E2=80=99s ASON work was active = (since 2003)?=E2=80=9D As you note, the WG status for the extensions = document was in July 2006. This is prior to the OIF demos of 2007 and = 2009. =20 So 2003 or 2006, both are prior the demos, and the actual question = remains unanswered (other than Lyndon=E2=80=99s response saying it was = =E2=80=9Cnot intentional=E2=80=9D). And also the more germane question = (which Lou asked), does OIF intend to adapt/test IETF protocol = extensions? =20 Jabber really needs at least two people =E2=80=93 one to be a scribe and = the other to stay by the mike to provide Jabber input. Volunteers for = next time? =20 Deborah =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ong, Lyndon Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:17 PM To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 HI Dan, =20 I would like to point out one correction, although the discussion is = correctly recorded in the notes: in the discussion of ASON routing = implementation and testing it was stated that =E2=80=9Cthe = document=E2=80=9D (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has = been a Working Group draft since 2003. Actually, = draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006. =20 Can a note be added to that effect? =20 Thanks, =20 Lyndon =20 =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Daniel King Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hello all,=20 =20 The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: =20 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm =20 If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC = the WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4th = December, 2009. =20 =20 Br, Dan.=20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C80.01B4DAF1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Deborah,

 

The specific = statement in the minutes is: =E2=80=9Cthis document = has been a working group document since 2003=E2=80=9D, which is not accurate.  = I would like to request that this statement either be corrected or removed, since it is otherwise misleading.  That=E2=80=99s all.

 

As far as the = history of this activity, that=E2=80=99s probably a long drawn out discussion, but some = key points are:

-          If you = take a look at documentation on the OIF website (http://www.oiforum.com/ = OIF_demos.html), you will see that experimentation with ASON routing started in = 2003-2004, well before any IETF work on formats to support ASON routing.  My = presentation referenced 2007 and 2009 OIF Demos as the most recent ones, not meaning = to imply that they were the earliest.

-          OIF = activities have been generally consistent with CCAMP work on ASON requirements and = evaluation documented in RFC 4258 and 4652.  These RFCs were the product of = joint design teams including some OIF participants

-          Where things = diverge is with draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf, which did not have any input from outside of IETF and so was not a joint effort.  I believe that a number of the extensions defined in that = draft are equivalent in functionality to what has been implemented for the OIF Demos, but = different in format, hence the interest in seeing if there is any possibility of converging on extensions that have already been tested as a way to move = from Experimental to Standards Track.  Unfortunately, it sounds like the = possibility is nil=E2=80=A6

-          Whether OIF will = test the extensions in draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf-09.txt in the future depends on the input from its member companies.  =

 

Hope this helps to = clarify.

 

Cheers,

 

Lyndon

 



From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hi Lyndon,

 

The =E2=80=9CWorking = Group document=E2=80=9D was answering the previous comment questioning the status of the = Experimental document. The 2003 was referring to the history of ASON-routing as a = work item in CCAMP which was in response to your sentence: =E2=80=9Chowever = implementation and testing began before [OSPF-ASON] was = defined.=E2=80=9D

 

To restate my question: =E2=80=9CWhy did OIF = (independently) develop ASON routing extensions while CCAMP=E2=80=99s ASON work was active = (since 2003)?=E2=80=9D As you note, the WG status for the extensions document was in July 2006. = This is prior to the OIF demos of 2007 and 2009.

 

So 2003 or 2006, both are prior the demos, and the = actual question remains unanswered (other than Lyndon=E2=80=99s response saying = it was =E2=80=9Cnot intentional=E2=80=9D).  And also the more germane question (which = Lou asked), does OIF intend to adapt/test IETF protocol extensions?

 

Jabber really needs = at least two people =E2=80=93 one to be a scribe and the other to stay by the = mike to provide Jabber input. Volunteers for next time?

 

Deborah

 

From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Ong, Lyndon
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:17 PM
To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

HI = Dan,

 

I would like to point = out one correction, although the discussion is correctly recorded in the = notes:  in the discussion of ASON routing implementation and testing it was = stated that =E2=80=9Cthe document=E2=80=9D (referencing = draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working Group draft since 2003.  Actually, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July = 2006.

 

Can a note be added = to that effect?

 

Thanks,

 

Lyndon

 


From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Daniel King
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hello all, =

 

The CCAMP draft minutes for the = IETF 76 sessions are now available:

 

http://w= ww.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm

=

 

If you have any questions or = amendment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs.  Please let me have = these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009. =   

 

Br, Dan.

 


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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.211, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ELiq8ZnHyxUr for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45183A6873 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:20:35 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: db3546@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1259014830!34213122!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 11565 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2009 22:20:31 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-13.tower-120.messagelabs.com with 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draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:20:37 -0000 All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah From db3546@att.com Mon Nov 23 14:20:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53423A6974 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:20:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.994 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.994 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.605, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lQ1Y5QSow1lc for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com (mail121.messagelabs.com [216.82.242.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84383A6ACF for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:20:55 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: db3546@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1259014850!26804458!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 30879 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2009 22:20:50 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-2.tower-121.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 23 Nov 2009 22:20:50 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nANMKmK3026977 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:20:48 -0500 Received: from gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com (gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com [135.53.26.19]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nANMKg7d026939 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:20:42 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:20:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document Thread-Index: AcpsizIDlr6ZZNdXSjyNc42U4rlKIg== From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" To: Subject: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:20:56 -0000 All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group document. 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Deborah From db3546@att.com Mon Nov 23 14:34:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0F83A6965 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:34:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.985 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.985 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.807, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aJRWYeeDRxwz for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:34:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail129.messagelabs.com (mail129.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597623A67E6 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:34:17 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: 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type="multipart/alternative" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:34:09 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283CE4@mdmxm03.ciena.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/ogAJPgetAABN1m0AACeO2g References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk><0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com> <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283CE4@mdmxm03.ciena.com> From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" To: "Ong, Lyndon" , Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:34:20 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C8D.12E244E8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id C8A453A68B3 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 15:30:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (usaga04-in [172.18.4.101]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTL00BQQ5AX1M@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:30:33 -0600 (CST) Received: from L735042 ([10.124.12.68]) by usaga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTL00HKD5AWI1@usaga04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:30:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:30:32 -0600 From: Linda Dunbar In-reply-to: To: "'BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)'" , ccamp@ietf.org Message-id: <010401ca6c94$f37681b0$440c7c0a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwACcVzw References: Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:30:38 -0000 Yes/Support. Linda Dunbar -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:20 PM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From Lyong@Ciena.com Mon Nov 23 16:15:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF83F28C0EC for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:15:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.318 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.140, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NL9i72BNjbVa for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from hicks.ciena.com (hicks.ciena.com [63.118.34.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C64B528C0E1 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:15:04 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap0EAOmzCks/dicV/2dsb2JhbACCUIF0lhOrT5BFgi2BO1QEgxk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.4325 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C9B.1A9086C9" Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:14:34 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283D39@mdmxm03.ciena.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes Importance: normal Priority: normal Thread-Index: AcpqDkR1XDe2BgSJT1urNDQ7QbDdSgABm/ogAJPgetAABN1m0AACeO2gAAYagaA= References: <015401ca6a0e$44f4a2d0$cedde870$@co.uk><0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283AB3@mdmxm03.ciena.com><0AFD1B67B949784DA087CDA9F0DD4AD901283CE4@mdmxm03.ciena.com> From: "Ong, Lyndon" To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A \(ATTLABS\)" , Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:15:07 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6C9B.1A9086C9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C9B.1A9086C9" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C9B.1A9086C9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Deborah, =20 Thanks for the correction. Also fair point that the solutions draft was = a joint effort within IETF, just not going outside of IETF. I suspect = it was a complicated effort to negotiate the waters just within IETF = between multiple WGs. =20 One last note, I would not call the OIF work parallel development = exactly in that it took place earlier than the IETF work rather than at = the same time. It=E2=80=99s unfortunate that the current IETF work = cannot take advantage of previous testing that was done along the same = lines. =20 =20 Also sorry that we were not able to have a discussion on the actual = drafts, especially the second draft on new routing functionality for = layer-scoped attributes and local connection type. Hopefully we can = discuss more on the list. =20 Cheers, =20 Lyndon =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:34 PM To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Sure, we can correct to say 2006. =20 On your statement below =E2=80=9Cso was not a joint effort=E2=80=9D. It = was a =E2=80=9Cjoint=E2=80=9D effort of CCAMP and the OSPF WG which have = ownership of the protocol extensions and IETF is an open community for = development. This is why I said that it had WG document status when = concern was raised on its experimental status. Unfortunately, when a = parallel development is done on extensions outside of the owning group, = even with cross-participants, it will most likely result in a diverging = solution for the same functionality. You may want to remind OIF on the = (G)MPLS change process (RFC4929) in your next status update to them to = determine their interest to align with the change process. =20 =20 From: Ong, Lyndon [mailto:Lyong@Ciena.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:01 PM To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS); ccamp@ietf.org Subject: RE: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hi Deborah, =20 The specific statement in the minutes is: =E2=80=9Cthis document has = been a working group document since 2003=E2=80=9D, which is not = accurate. I would like to request that this statement either be = corrected or removed, since it is otherwise misleading. That=E2=80=99s = all. =20 As far as the history of this activity, that=E2=80=99s probably a long = drawn out discussion, but some key points are: - If you take a look at documentation on the OIF website = (http://www.oiforum.com/ OIF_demos.html), you will see that = experimentation with ASON routing started in 2003-2004, well before any = IETF work on formats to support ASON routing. My presentation = referenced 2007 and 2009 OIF Demos as the most recent ones, not meaning = to imply that they were the earliest. - OIF activities have been generally consistent with CCAMP work = on ASON requirements and evaluation documented in RFC 4258 and 4652. = These RFCs were the product of joint design teams including some OIF = participants - Where things diverge is with = draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf, which did not have any input from = outside of IETF and so was not a joint effort. I believe that a number = of the extensions defined in that draft are equivalent in functionality = to what has been implemented for the OIF Demos, but different in format, = hence the interest in seeing if there is any possibility of converging = on extensions that have already been tested as a way to move from = Experimental to Standards Track. Unfortunately, it sounds like the = possibility is nil=E2=80=A6 - Whether OIF will test the extensions in = draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf-09.txt in the future depends on the = input from its member companies. =20 =20 Hope this helps to clarify. =20 Cheers, =20 Lyndon =20 =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:33 AM To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hi Lyndon, =20 The =E2=80=9CWorking Group document=E2=80=9D was answering the previous = comment questioning the status of the Experimental document. The 2003 = was referring to the history of ASON-routing as a work item in CCAMP = which was in response to your sentence: =E2=80=9Chowever implementation = and testing began before [OSPF-ASON] was defined.=E2=80=9D =20 To restate my question: =E2=80=9CWhy did OIF (independently) develop = ASON routing extensions while CCAMP=E2=80=99s ASON work was active = (since 2003)?=E2=80=9D As you note, the WG status for the extensions = document was in July 2006. This is prior to the OIF demos of 2007 and = 2009. =20 So 2003 or 2006, both are prior the demos, and the actual question = remains unanswered (other than Lyndon=E2=80=99s response saying it was = =E2=80=9Cnot intentional=E2=80=9D). And also the more germane question = (which Lou asked), does OIF intend to adapt/test IETF protocol = extensions? =20 Jabber really needs at least two people =E2=80=93 one to be a scribe and = the other to stay by the mike to provide Jabber input. Volunteers for = next time? =20 Deborah =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ong, Lyndon Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:17 PM To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 HI Dan, =20 I would like to point out one correction, although the discussion is = correctly recorded in the notes: in the discussion of ASON routing = implementation and testing it was stated that =E2=80=9Cthe = document=E2=80=9D (referencing draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has = been a Working Group draft since 2003. Actually, = draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July 2006. =20 Can a note be added to that effect? =20 Thanks, =20 Lyndon =20 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Daniel King Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP Minutes =20 Hello all,=20 =20 The CCAMP draft minutes for the IETF 76 sessions are now available: =20 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm =20 If you have any questions or amendment requests please email me and CC = the WG Chairs. Please let me have these comments by Friday, 4th = December, 2009. =20 =20 Br, Dan.=20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_002_01CA6C9B.1A9086C9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Deborah,

 

Thanks for the = correction.  Also fair point that the solutions draft was a joint effort within IETF, just = not going outside of IETF.  I suspect it was a complicated effort to = negotiate the waters just within IETF between multiple WGs.

 

One last note, I = would not call the OIF work parallel development exactly in that it took place earlier = than the IETF work rather than at the same time.  It=E2=80=99s = unfortunate that the current IETF work cannot take advantage of previous testing that was done along = the same lines. 

 

Also sorry that we = were not able to have a discussion on the actual drafts, especially the second draft = on new routing functionality for layer-scoped attributes and local connection = type.  Hopefully we can discuss more on the list.

 

Cheers,

 

Lyndon

 



From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:34 PM
To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Sure, we can correct = to say 2006.

 

On your statement = below =E2=80=9Cso was not a joint effort=E2=80=9D. It was a =E2=80=9Cjoint=E2=80=9D effort of = CCAMP and the OSPF WG which have ownership of the protocol extensions and IETF is an open community = for development. This is why I said that it had WG document status when = concern was raised on its experimental status. Unfortunately, when a parallel = development is done on extensions outside of the owning group, even with cross-participants, it will most likely result in a diverging solution = for the same functionality.  You may want to remind OIF on the (G)MPLS = change process (RFC4929) in your next status update to them to determine their interest to align with the change process.

 

 

From:= = Ong, Lyndon [mailto:Lyong@Ciena.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:01 PM
To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS); ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hi = Deborah,

 

The specific = statement in the minutes is: =E2=80=9Cthis document = has been a working group document since 2003=E2=80=9D, which is not accurate.  = I would like to request that this statement either be corrected or removed, since it = is otherwise misleading.  That=E2=80=99s all.

 

As far as the = history of this activity, that=E2=80=99s probably a long drawn out discussion, but some = key points are:

-          If you = take a look at documentation on the OIF website (http://www.oiforum.com/ = OIF_demos.html), you will see that experimentation with ASON routing started in = 2003-2004, well before any IETF work on formats to support ASON routing.  My = presentation referenced 2007 and 2009 OIF Demos as the most recent ones, not meaning = to imply that they were the earliest.

-          OIF = activities have been generally consistent with CCAMP work on ASON requirements and = evaluation documented in RFC 4258 and 4652.  These RFCs were the product of = joint design teams including some OIF participants

-          Where things = diverge is with draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf, which did not have any input from outside of IETF and so was not a joint effort.  I believe that a number of the extensions defined in that = draft are equivalent in functionality to what has been implemented for the OIF = Demos, but different in format, hence the interest in seeing if there is any possibility of converging on extensions that have already been tested as = a way to move from Experimental to Standards Track.  Unfortunately, it = sounds like the possibility is nil=E2=80=A6

-          Whether OIF will = test the extensions in draft-ietf-ccamp-ason-routing-ospf-09.txt in the future depends on the input from its member companies.  =

 

Hope this helps to = clarify.

 

Cheers,

 

Lyndon

 


From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Ong, Lyndon; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hi Lyndon,

 

The =E2=80=9CWorking = Group document=E2=80=9D was answering the previous comment questioning the status of the = Experimental document. The 2003 was referring to the history of ASON-routing as a = work item in CCAMP which was in response to your sentence: =E2=80=9Chowever = implementation and testing began before [OSPF-ASON] was = defined.=E2=80=9D

 

To restate my question: =E2=80=9CWhy did OIF = (independently) develop ASON routing extensions while CCAMP=E2=80=99s ASON work was active = (since 2003)?=E2=80=9D As you note, the WG status for the extensions document was in July 2006. This = is prior to the OIF demos of 2007 and 2009.

 

So 2003 or 2006, both are prior the demos, and the = actual question remains unanswered (other than Lyndon=E2=80=99s response saying = it was =E2=80=9Cnot intentional=E2=80=9D).  And also the more germane question (which Lou asked), does OIF = intend to adapt/test IETF protocol extensions?

 

Jabber really needs = at least two people =E2=80=93 one to be a scribe and the other to stay by the = mike to provide Jabber input. Volunteers for next time?

 

Deborah

 

From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Ong, Lyndon
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:17 PM
To: Daniel King; ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

HI = Dan,

 

I would like to point = out one correction, although the discussion is correctly recorded in the = notes:  in the discussion of ASON routing implementation and testing it was = stated that =E2=80=9Cthe document=E2=80=9D (referencing = draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing) has been a Working Group draft since 2003.  Actually, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-00.txt is dated July = 2006.

 

Can a note be added = to that effect?

 

Thanks,

 

Lyndon

 


From:= ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Daniel King
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:21 AM
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] IETF 76 - Draft CCAMP = Minutes

 

Hello all, =

 

The CCAMP draft minutes for the = IETF 76 sessions are now available:

 

http://w= ww.ietf.org/proceedings/09nov/minutes/ccamp.htm

=

 

If you have any questions or = amendment requests please email me and CC the WG Chairs.  Please let me have = these comments by Friday, 4th December, 2009. =   

 

Br, Dan.

 

 


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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SNm+H09hM6V for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns1.nict.go.jp (ns1.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:2f8:29::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1BD28C1E2 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (gw1 [133.243.18.250]) by ns1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id nAO2QmRF021058; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from gw1.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id nAO2QmOi013667; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail3.nict.go.jp (mail.nict.go.jp [133.243.18.3]) by gw1.nict.go.jp with ESMTP id nAO2QmfM013664; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail3.nict.go.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail3.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail) with ESMTP id 4F1E5161E6; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:48 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ssh2.nict.go.jp [133.243.3.50]) by mail3.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail) with ESMTP id 477E9161E5; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:45 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4B0B4464.3090809@nict.go.jp> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:26:44 +0900 From: Sugang XU User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" , ccamp@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:26:59 -0000 Yes/Support Best Regards, Sugang BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) ã•ã‚“ã¯æ›¸ãã¾ã—ãŸ: > All, > > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working > group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" > or "no/do not support". > > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. > > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > From danli@huawei.com Mon Nov 23 18:34:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DAC3A6B26 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.265 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gxfmlxjCrOxV for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com (usaga01-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD84F3A6B1D for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTL00D06DT1MM@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.95] ([218.108.63.147]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTL0073IDSZNO@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:34:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:34:11 +0800 From: Dan Li In-reply-to: To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable References: Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:34:20 -0000 Support! Dan =D4=DA 2009-11-24=A3=AC=C9=CF=CE=E76:20=A3=AC BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A = (ATTLABS) =D0=B4=B5=C0=A3=BA > All, > > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working > group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/=20 > support" > or "no/do not support". > > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. > > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com Mon Nov 23 23:46:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536C33A68BB for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:46:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KF-fikT5oRXl for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4C63A682A for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:46:30 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b7b90ae000005e1e-f3-4b0b8f4b16f4 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7A.5E.24094.B4F8B0B4; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:46:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from EITRMMW021.eemea.ericsson.se ([141.137.48.176]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:46:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:46:16 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document Thread-Index: AcpsizIDlr6ZZNdXSjyNc42U4rlKIgATu1hg References: From: "Daniele Ceccarelli" To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2009 07:46:18.0860 (UTC) FILETIME=[356EBAC0:01CA6CDA] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:46:31 -0000 Support. BR Daniele=20 -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: luned=EC 23 novembre 2009 23.21 To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] poll on = makingdraft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making = draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group = document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or = "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From anders.gavler@acreo.se Mon Nov 23 23:54:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91CD3A682A for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:54:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.59 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.59 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DK=1.009, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZLU1wvUmqiHx for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:54:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from deframx28.softcom.dk (deframx28.softcom.dk [87.230.83.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDFD3A6810 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1431 invoked by uid 74); 24 Nov 2009 07:54:44 -0000 Received: from mail.acreo.se (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk (envelope-from ) with ESMTP. tag msg.1259049284.851676.26233 (Processed in 0.111468 secs); 24 Nov 2009 07:54:44 -0000 X-SoftScan-Status: clean X-Secure-TLS: Yes, message received through TLS by deframx28.softcom.dk (RC4-MD5) Received: from mail.acreo.se (HELO mail.acreo.se) (217.151.195.216) by deframx28.softcom.dk over TLS secured channel with (RC4-MD5 encrypted) ESMTPS; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:54:44 +0100 Received: from acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) by acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se ([10.4.148.12]) with mapi; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:54:44 +0100 From: Anders Gavler To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" , "ccamp@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:54:41 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document Thread-Index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwAUC6Jw Message-ID: <73B74934786FBB4F951B5F99724CEB60D45D3226C9@acreoexc01.ad.acreo.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: sv-SE, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:54:53 -0000 yes/support! /Anders > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) > Sent: den 23 november 2009 23:20 > To: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility= - > ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document >=20 > All, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working > group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" > or "no/do not support". >=20 > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. >=20 > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From ylee@huawei.com Tue Nov 24 08:36:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6DDA3A6A60 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:36:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxM9qHEc2oQ9 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com (usaga01-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8303A689A for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:36:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTM00HNLGSSPB@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from L73682 (63-217-87-66.static.pccwglobal.net [63.217.87.66]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTM007WUGSMIG@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:36:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:36:08 -0600 From: Young Lee In-reply-to: To: ccamp@ietf.org Message-id: <000e01ca6d24$3acd1710$460aa8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwAmQKMA References: Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:36:35 -0000 Yes/Support! Young (co-author) -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:20 PM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From gregb@grotto-networking.com Tue Nov 24 08:52:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38DD43A6843 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:52:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lfpVWXfpmEtw for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail32c40.carrierzone.com (mail32c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C223A67E9 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:52:24 -0800 (PST) X-Authenticated-User: gregb.grotto-networking.com Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.133] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail32c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nAOGqDXn022556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:52:17 GMT Message-ID: <4B0C0F3C.6070708@grotto-networking.com> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:52:12 -0800 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:52:25 -0000 yes/support (co-author). Greg B. BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) wrote: > All, > > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working > group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" > or "no/do not support". > > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. > > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 From db3546@att.com Tue Nov 24 14:07:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97693A680C; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:07:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.403, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DyuMt8RXUwMb; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail167.messagelabs.com (mail167.messagelabs.com [216.82.253.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659503A6405; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:07:54 -0800 (PST) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: db3546@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-167.messagelabs.com!1259100468!15733497!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.2.4; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.146] Received: (qmail 16605 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2009 22:07:49 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp7.sbc.com (HELO mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.146) by server-8.tower-167.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 24 Nov 2009 22:07:49 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAOM7kt0031118; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:07:46 -0500 Received: from gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com (gaalpa1msgusr7e.ugd.att.com [135.53.26.19]) by mlpd194.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id nAOM7fD0031084; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:07:42 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable x-cr-puzzleid: {D86BA48B-9DB7-43B7-A788-30756A7435DB} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: fms= nfc= A4ub G9G1 HkOE MEBS Nu1b QHI8 VYlx Xs+P Zfr2 apPn cUpu gJnA gYlD h8oB; 3; YQBkAHIAaQBhAG4ALgBmAGEAcgByAGUAbABAAGgAdQBhAHcAZQBpAC4AYwBvAG0AOwBjAGMAYQBtAHAAQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcAOwBpAGUAcwBnAC0AcwBlAGMAcgBlAHQAYQByAHkAQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcA; Sosha1_v1; 7; {D86BA48B-9DB7-43B7-A788-30756A7435DB}; ZABiADMANQA0ADYAQABhAHQAdAAuAGMAbwBtAA==; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:07:35 GMT; UABsAGUAYQBzAGUAIABwAHUAYgBsAGkAcwBoACAAZAByAGEAZgB0AC0AaQBlAHQAZgAtAGMAYwBhAG0AcAAtAGcAbQBwAGwAcwAtAGUAdABoAGUAcgBuAGUAdAAtAGEAcgBjAGgALQAwADYALgB0AHgAdAA= Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:07:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Please publish draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-06.txt Thread-Index: AcptUoc5fKswzU2vQrOrH1CoxQTeug== From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" To: "Adrian Farrel" Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] Please publish draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:07:55 -0000 Proto-write-up for draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ethernet-arch-06.txt Intended status: Informational (1.a) Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Has the Document Shepherd personally reviewed this version of the=20 document and, in particular, does he or she believe this=20 version is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication? Deborah Brungard is the document shepherd. She has personally reviewed the I-D and believes it is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication. =20 (1.b) Has the document had adequate review both from key WG members=20 and from key non-WG members? Does the Document Shepherd have=20 any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? The I-D has had a good level of discussion and review. Several liaisons were exchanged with IEEE and MEF during CCAMP's Ethernet work to ensure compatibility and cooperation between the SDOs, e.g.: https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file396.txt http://ccamp.labn.net/old_ccamp/IEEE_240707.txt (1.c) Does the Document Shepherd have concerns that the document=20 needs more review from a particular or broader perspective,=20 e.g., security, operational complexity, someone familiar with=20 AAA, internationalization or XML? No concerns. =20 (1.d) Does the Document Shepherd have any specific concerns or=20 issues with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps he=20 or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or=20 has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any=20 event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated=20 that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those=20 concerns here. Has an IPR disclosure related to this document=20 been filed? If so, please include a reference to the=20 disclosure and summarize the WG discussion and conclusion on=20 this issue. No concerns. No IPR disclosures have been filed. =20 (1.e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it=20 represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with=20 others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and=20 agree with it? WG consensus is solid. =20 (1.f) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme=20 discontent? If so, please summarise the areas of conflict in=20 separate email messages to the Responsible Area Director. (It=20 should be in a separate email because this questionnaire is=20 entered into the ID Tracker.) No threats. =20 (1.g) Has the Document Shepherd personally verified that the=20 document satisfies all ID nits? (See the Internet-Drafts Checklist =20 and http://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/). Boilerplate checks are not enough; this check needs to be thorough. Has the document=20 met all formal review criteria it needs to, such as the MIB=20 Doctor, media type and URI type reviews? All checks made.=20 =20 (1.h) Has the document split its references into normative and=20 informative? Are there normative references to documents that=20 are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear=20 state? If such normative references exist, what is the=20 strategy for their completion? Are there normative references=20 that are downward references, as described in [RFC3967]? If=20 so, list these downward references to support the Area=20 Director in the Last Call procedure for them [RFC3967]. References split. No downrefs.=20 =20 (1.i) Has the Document Shepherd verified that the document IANA=20 consideration section exists and is consistent with the body=20 of the document? If the document specifies protocol=20 extensions, are reservations requested in appropriate IANA=20 registries? Are the IANA registries clearly identified? If=20 the document creates a new registry, does it define the=20 proposed initial contents of the registry and an allocation=20 procedure for future registrations? Does it suggest a=20 reasonable name for the new registry? See [RFC5226]. If the=20 document describes an Expert Review process has Shepherd=20 conferred with the Responsible Area Director so that the IESG=20 can appoint the needed Expert during the IESG Evaluation? =20 This is an Informational I-D that makes no requests of IANA. A null IANA section is included. =20 (1.j) Has the Document Shepherd verified that sections of the=20 document that are written in a formal language, such as XML=20 code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc., validate correctly in=20 an automated checker? =20 No formal language is used. =20 (1.k) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document=20 Announcement Write-Up. Please provide such a Document=20 Announcement Write-Up? Recent examples can be found in the "Action" announcements for approved documents. The approval=20 announcement contains the following sections:=20 Technical Summary=20 Relevant content can frequently be found in the abstract=20 and/or introduction of the document. If not, this may be=20 an indication that there are deficiencies in the abstract=20 or introduction. There has been significant recent work in increasing the capabilities of Ethernet switches and Ethernet forwarding models. As a consequence, the role of Ethernet is rapidly expanding into "transport networks" that previously were the domain of other technologies such as Synchronous Optical Network (SONET)/Synchronous Digital Hierarchy (SDH), Time-Division Multiplex (TDM) and Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM). This document defines an architecture and framework for a Generalized GMPLS based control plane for Ethernet in this "transport network" capacity. GMPLS has already been specified for similar technologies. Some additional extensions to the GMPLS control plane are needed and this document provides a framework for these extensions. Working Group Summary=20 Was there anything in WG process that is worth noting? For=20 example, was there controversy about particular points or=20 were there decisions where the consensus was particularly=20 rough? No. =20 Document Quality=20 Are there existing implementations of the protocol? Have a=20 significant number of vendors indicated their plan to=20 implement the specification? Are there any reviewers that=20 merit special mention as having done a thorough review,=20 e.g., one that resulted in important changes or a=20 conclusion that the document had no substantive issues? If=20 there was a MIB Doctor, Media Type or other expert review,=20 what was its course (briefly)? In the case of a Media Type=20 review, on what date was the request posted? This document is informational. From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com Tue Nov 24 23:38:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A771D3A6A6D for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vcNvLrqV6LGk for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw5.ericsson.se (mailgw5.ericsson.se [193.180.251.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE0C3A677D for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:38:10 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb24-b7b67ae000001a2a-df-4b0cdedce9a6 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw5.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0B.54.06698.CDEDC0B4; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:38:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from EITRMMW021.eemea.ericsson.se ([141.137.48.176]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:38:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:38:02 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000e01ca6d24$3acd1710$460aa8c0@china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document Thread-Index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwAmQKMAAB+Bs/A= References: <000e01ca6d24$3acd1710$460aa8c0@china.huawei.com> From: "Daniele Ceccarelli" To: "Young Lee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2009 07:38:04.0178 (UTC) FILETIME=[38FDFF20:01CA6DA2] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:38:12 -0000 Yes/Support Daniele=20 -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Young Lee Sent: marted=EC 24 novembre 2009 17.36 To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on = makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg = document Yes/Support! Young (co-author) -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:20 PM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg = document All, This is to start a two week poll on making = draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working = group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From bao.yuanlin@zte.com.cn Tue Nov 24 23:44:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAFC33A683B; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:44:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -96.993 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-96.993 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE=0.76, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9UwFEQc-awBb; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx6.zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [63.218.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A226F3A677D; Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.30.17.100] by mx6.zte.com.cn with surfront esmtp id 91101461793122; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:22:10 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.30.3.19] by [10.30.17.100] with StormMail ESMTP id 83949.3827058337; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:43:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse2.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id nAP7i9XS093644; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:44:11 +0800 (CST) (envelope-from Bao.Yuanlin@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: To: "Daniele Ceccarelli" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 Message-ID: From: Bao.Yuanlin@zte.com.cn Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:45:16 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 6.5.4|March 27, 2005) at 2009-11-25 15:44:02, Serialize complete at 2009-11-25 15:44:02 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 002A79BC48257679_=" X-MAIL: mse2.zte.com.cn nAP7i9XS093644 Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, ccamp-bounces@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogUmU6ICBwb2xsIG9uCW1ha2luZ2RyYWZ0LWxl?= =?gb2312?b?ZS1jY2FtcC13c29uLXNpZ25hbC1jb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5LW9zcGYtMDAudHh0?= =?gb2312?b?CWNjYW1wCXdnIGRvY3VtZW50?= X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:44:23 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 002A79BC48257679_= Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:19:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDemUWih7R5C for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C3328C1E0 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:19:55 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b7b90ae000005e1e-e5-4b0ce8a54340 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 28.11.24094.5A8EC0B4; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:19:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:18:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:18:11 +0100 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E9109173C93@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccampwg document Thread-Index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwBHJOQg References: From: "Attila Takacs" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2009 08:18:47.0521 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9568D10:01CA6DA7] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccampwg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:19:57 -0000 Support. Attila=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:20 PM > To: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: [CCAMP] poll on=20 > makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt=20 > ccampwg document >=20 > All, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on making=20 > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp=20 > working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list=20 > indicating "yes/support" > or "no/do not support". >=20 > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. >=20 > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp >=20 From zhangfatai@huawei.com Wed Nov 25 16:45:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D73E3A696A for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vp+mrrj16VLt for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CAA3A67DD for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTO004V3Y32B4@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:45:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTO00A4DY32E7@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:45:02 +0800 (CST) Received: from z41162b ([10.70.76.112]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTO00IC8Y32MZ@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:45:02 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:45:02 +0800 From: Fatai Zhang To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" Message-id: <020301ca6e31$b08b6a20$704c460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_JF6PfkTltVo1Q6F2/Y9X2Q)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:45:19 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_JF6PfkTltVo1Q6F2/Y9X2Q) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Support. Fatai Advanced Technology Department Wireline Networking Business Unit Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang, Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China Tel: +86-755-28972912 Fax: +86-755-28972935 ----- Original Message ----- From: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) To: ccamp@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:20 AM Subject: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp --Boundary_(ID_JF6PfkTltVo1Q6F2/Y9X2Q) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Support.
 
 
 
 
 
Fatai
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972912
Fax: +86-755-28972935
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:20 AM
Subject: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document

All,

This is to start a two week poll on making
draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group
document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or
"no/do not support".

The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009.

Deborah
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
--Boundary_(ID_JF6PfkTltVo1Q6F2/Y9X2Q)-- From wwwrun@core3.amsl.com Wed Nov 25 19:45:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@ietf.org Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 7AE273A6B7F; Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:45:21 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: <20091126034521.7AE273A6B7F@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:45:21 -0800 (PST) Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] Last Call: draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status (Data Channel Status Confirmation Extensions for the Link Management Protocol) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:45:21 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp) to consider the following document: - 'Data Channel Status Confirmation Extensions for the Link Management Protocol ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-12-16. This last call period is one week longer than usual to allow for the Thanksgiving holiday. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-confirm-data-channel-status-08.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=17160&rfc_flag=0 From Senoo.Shoichiro@dc.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp Thu Nov 26 03:16:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86D383A6BC9 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:16:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.324 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.324 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WedSxHnsbTxO for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx05.melco.co.jp (mx05.melco.co.jp [192.218.140.145]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A139B3A6BC8 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:16:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mr05.melco.co.jp (mr05 [133.141.98.165]) by mx05.melco.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6266D5CC77 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from mr05.melco.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mr05.imss (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC4DA550 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from elgw.isl.melco.co.jp (unknown [133.141.13.130]) by mr05.melco.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25550A4C7 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:46 +0900 (JST) Received: from iswall2b.isl.melco.co.jp (iswall2b.isl.melco.co.jp [10.74.245.25]) by elgw.isl.melco.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id F229231F3E1 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from iswall2b.isl.melco.co.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.isl.melco.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 827DB718006 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from LeakStopper186 (stopper2.isl.melco.co.jp [10.74.245.36]) by iswall2b.isl.melco.co.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 5C3EA718001 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:45 +0900 (JST) Received: (qmail 32023 invoked by uid 507); 26 Nov 2009 20:16:43 +0900 Received: from unknown (HELO ELSTEFANY) (10.74.8.38) by 0 with SMTP; 26 Nov 2009 20:16:08 +0900 From: "Shoichiro Seno" To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:16:10 +0900 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-reply-to: Thread-index: AcpsiyX6jIdbMKuST6ymgbpjP3HGUwB/l4QA Cc: Senoo.Shoichiro@dc.MitsubishiElectric.co.jp Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:16:53 -0000 Yes/support. Sho -- Shoichiro Seno Information Technology R&D Center Mitsubishi Electric Corporation > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:20 AM > To: ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: [CCAMP] poll on > makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt > ccamp wg document > > All, > > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working > group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating > "yes/support" > or "no/do not support". > > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. > > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > From elisa.bellagamba@ericsson.com Thu Nov 26 08:57:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319543A6A85 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:57:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qXFJRH9rotmA for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw5.ericsson.se (mailgw5.ericsson.se [193.180.251.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F3753A6A4E for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:57:57 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb24-b7beeae000003a71-0b-4b0eb38ff647 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw5.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5F.6C.14961.F83BE0B4; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:57:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw103.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.66]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:57:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6EB9.7DEAFE4D" Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:57:09 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext Thread-Index: AcpuuX2uIohStnS6QLaY13MYm6W3xg== From: "Elisa Bellagamba" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2009 16:57:09.0612 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E0AC2C0:01CA6EB9] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: [CCAMP] Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:57:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6EB9.7DEAFE4D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, We are planning to upload an updated version of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ex t-03 for the week of December the 7th.=20 We would like to receive as many comments as possible from you before that date. We are already working on keeping aligned this draft with the http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-02 and the other existing technology specific drafts. Loa will send a specific email to discuss this point. Thanks to who will provide some feedbacks! Regards, Elisa ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6EB9.7DEAFE4D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Asking for comments on = draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext

Hello,

We are planning to upload an updated = version of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-= mpls-tp-oam-ext-03 for the = week of December the 7th.

We would like to receive as many = comments as possible from you before that date.

We are already working on keeping = aligned this draft with the http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configurat= ion-fwk-02 and the other = existing technology specific drafts. Loa will send a specific email to = discuss this point.

Thanks to who will provide some = feedbacks!

Regards,
Elisa

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6EB9.7DEAFE4D-- From zhangfatai@huawei.com Thu Nov 26 16:55:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9B63A6921 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:55:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2t4dDbxCql4w for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:55:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [119.145.14.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC623A68F4 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:55:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTQ00JPWT7L68@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:54:57 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTQ00BQGT7LEQ@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:54:57 +0800 (CST) Received: from z41162b ([10.70.76.112]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTQ00448T7LGH@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:54:57 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:54:56 +0800 From: Fatai Zhang To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" Message-id: <001501ca6efc$3d558830$704c460a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3598 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Lp92TGnZ2QRgVOqykmJ8bQ)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:55:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Lp92TGnZ2QRgVOqykmJ8bQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Support. Fatai Advanced Technology Department Wireline Networking Business Unit Huawei Technologies Co., LTD. Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang, Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China Tel: +86-755-28972912 Fax: +86-755-28972935 ----- Original Message ----- From: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) To: ccamp@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:20 AM Subject: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp --Boundary_(ID_Lp92TGnZ2QRgVOqykmJ8bQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Support.
 
 
 
 
Fatai
 
Advanced Technology Department
Wireline Networking Business Unit
Huawei Technologies Co., LTD.
Huawei Base, Bantian, Longgang,
Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China
Tel: +86-755-28972912
Fax: +86-755-28972935
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:20 AM
Subject: [CCAMP] poll on makingdraft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt ccamp wg document

All,

This is to start a two week poll on making
draft-lee-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf-00.txt a ccamp working
group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support"
or "no/do not support".

The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009.

Deborah
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
--Boundary_(ID_Lp92TGnZ2QRgVOqykmJ8bQ)-- From loa@pi.nu Fri Nov 27 02:50:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D2C3A6A16; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:50:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f8KJalNQQQJa; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F97D3A68FE; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (h133n2fls33o883.telia.com [217.208.62.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E22FD404B; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:50:04 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B0FAEDB.8030104@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:50:03 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls-tp@ietf.org" , ccamp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [CCAMP] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:50:14 -0000 All, There are four diferent drafts that have been brought to ccamp on using a control plane to configure OAM: draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-02 draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-eth-oam-ext-02 draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01 draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-03 All these draft address issues around extending RSVP-TE to configure OAM for different forwarding planes. This is good and something we need to resolve fairly quickly, we need to discuss this in several contexts with IETF, e.g. CCAMP, the MPLS-TP project and possibly also in the Operation and Management Area. I see a few problems that I would like to see resolved, that has mostly to do with the relationship between raft-ietf-ccamp-oam- configuration-fwk and the technology specific documents. All drafts is to a certain extent unclear and miss some necessary information, e.g. the exact relationship between the flag field in the OAM Configuration TLV and tool specific sub-TLVs. This is reflected in that it hard to write the technology specific oam-configuration documents in a clear and consistent way. There are a few issues that needs to be resolved. 1. We need to understand how generic it is possible to capture the OAM functions in the OAM Functions Flag Field in the OAM Configuration TLV. One idea with the flag field is that if you use default values for a OAM flagged in the flag field you don't need further sub-TLVs. However there seems to be different needs depending on the forwarding planes, e.g. it seems that the Ethernet draft makes the assumption that cc and cv is always run together at the same time, while in mpls-tp context we see that cc without cv is possible, and cc is implicit in proactive cv. Now with the current "Connectivity Monitoring flag" it is perfectly possible to take correct actions based on the default values for Ethernet, but for mpls(-tp) you be required to add some extra information. We can do this with using a mpls(-tp) specific sub-TLV, there is no real problem in that, but we loses some of the power of very simple trigger we have in the flag field. Or we could add a CC flag to the flag field, and let the "Connectivity Monitoring flag" represent th case where we use CC and CV in combination. Again that is not a problem, but I concerned that if this is recurring we would very quickly run out of in flags in the rather small OAM Functions Flag Field. Extending the field would be one way to resolve this. 2. Specifying and describing TLVs. In order to make RFCs easy to read and understand the TLV specifications need to be precise and to the point, I think there is a lot to be learned from e.g RFC5036, there Bob create an art of clearly specifying e.g. TLVs. There is e.g a clear and exactly matching list of explanations for each field in in the TLV In the four OAM Configuration drafts this is less clear. I'm not picking on any draft or author here, yes requesting that we sue a model that is as clear as in RFC5036. Again looking at the OAM Configuration TLV (but I'm not picking on that one in particular, this is recurring) - the Type field contains the value we want IANA to assign, this very quickly becomes hard to track since IANA will assign may Type (2) e.g. one each as sub-TLV for different TLVs. The type field should contain the name of the TLV. - what follows the TLV picture is a mix of defining what goes into the and what behavior that is expected in some cases. The list after should only indicates what goes into the TLV field - E.g. under OAM type it says that an "error" should be generated if the OAM type is not supported, I think this os an example of what indicated where we find the error codes. - names in the TLV picture and the list defining what goes into the field should be the same. I realize that having said this it will be necessary to start sending text to the authors of the different drafts, will do so as soon as I can. In order finally come up with a good control of OAM in gmpls we need to fix all four drafts. This does not in anyway require that we stop working on the technology specif draft, but fixes and clarifications in the framework needs to be reflected in the technology specific drafts. From an MPLS-TP project view it is also necessary to progress the mpls-tp specific drafts early, at least in parallel with the other drafts. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 From loa@pi.nu Fri Nov 27 02:53:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4240A3A68EA for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:53:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EUgEYr4XscZg for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A583A68E8 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (h133n2fls33o883.telia.com [217.208.62.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA5E1D404B; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:53:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B0FAFAB.6080601@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:53:31 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:53:42 -0000 All, I support this I-D becoming a WG draft, but I have some strong reservations about some of the technical content (see my separate email about the OAM control drafts). I think it is important to coordinate the OAM control work across all four of the related I-Ds. I hope that drat-bellagamba-... can also become a CCAMP draft soon so that the authors of all four drafts can work together on a resolution of the issues. /Loa BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) wrote: > All, > > This is to start a two week poll on making > draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group > document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or > "no/do not support". > > The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. > > Deborah > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 From loa@pi.nu Fri Nov 27 02:59:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAA373A6948; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:59:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oahX9YilsChB; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (mail.pi.nu [194.71.127.148]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAE33A62C1; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (h133n2fls33o883.telia.com [217.208.62.133]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D0A74D404B; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:58:53 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4B0FB0EB.5060604@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:58:51 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ccamp@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "mpls-tp@ietf.org" Subject: [CCAMP] progressing draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 10:59:03 -0000 All, of the four OAM configuration drafts 2 are working group drafts draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-02 draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-eth-oam-ext-02 the third just now polled to become a working group draft draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01 the fourth is still an individual draft draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-03 The fourth draft shares the maturity level and the dependencies on the framework with the other two technology specific drafts. In order to smoothly progress them and in order to do a a good alignment work between the four drafts, with the working group owning the revision control, I think we need to make also draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext a working group draft at the same time as draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext. /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 +46 767 72 92 13 From david.i.allan@ericsson.com Fri Nov 27 05:16:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED5A3A67FA; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:16:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LeIPEweSe4x1; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from imr1.ericy.com (imr1.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6D973A67D9; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr1.ericy.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nARDEjNN008987; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:15:53 -0600 Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.228]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:14:32 -0500 From: David Allan I To: Elisa Bellagamba , "mpls-tp@ietf.org" , "ccamp@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:14:30 -0500 Thread-Topic: Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext Thread-Index: AcpuuVi7f6/J1uH7Tk6HAQ+2DrqMSgAoYa5A Message-ID: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFF@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFFEUSAACMS0703e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:16:01 -0000 --_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFFEUSAACMS0703e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Elisa: A few comments on the draft... 1) Consistent with the OAM framework, you may want to identify the scope as= intended to be broader than simply the exemplary BFD in the introduction, = a suggestion would be: - the exchange or configuration of identifiers used explicitly as part = of data plane OAM procedures for the MEG and the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, MEG ID= ...?), this is clearly above and beyond BFD as it would apply to all on-dem= and functions as well as the proactive monitoring ones... - the exchange, negotiation or configuration of parameters associated w= ith proactive monitoring functions (in the future periodicity of PM may also figure into this...) Out of scope would be the triggering of the performance of on-demand functi= ons above and beyond the OAM identifier exchange to facilitate on demand op= eration identified above...as these are typically operator initiated, and d= o not need any further apriori setup by the control plane... 2) I believe one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by sim= ply deprecating CC as it was simply a degenerate version of CV, at least I = advocated that and thought there was agreement in the room. So assuming no = objections appear to this email, you can simplify the draft by taking the C= C aspects out... 3) 2nd para of section 2. Presumably we are applying BFD to the full gamut = of paths.... co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, uni-dir p2p and unidir p2= mp... the description focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would need some elabo= ration.... 4) 4th para of section 2... although BFD allows asymmetrical periods (diffe= rent send rates at either end of the path), transport is about an availaili= ty definition that would assume a common rate and the TLV design seems to r= eflect this as it only exchanges suggested TX rates... if you are to genera= lize this across the MPLS architecture, you may want to separate out "what = the sender wants to send" and "what the sender will tolerate from the desti= nation"...right now my read of the TLVs is what the sender will send and by= inference what it expects the destination to send... it is not clear to me= what happens if these values get adjusted... 5) Section 3 para 2... you use ingress and egress to describe the signallin= g roles, while RFC 3209 already has estalished sender and destination nodes= as the "proper terms"...it would be best to line up with existing terminol= ogy where possible. 6) Section 3.3.2, I'm not sure what I'm missing but I cannot find a descrip= tion of the "detect. mult" field... 7) I'd move the source unique MEP TLV up to being a peer of the BFD TLVs in= stead of a sub-TLV as it would be independent of BFD itself...and of utilit= y for Ping, PM etc. There should also be a MEG ID TLV and an ME TLV...P2MP= needing a bit of thought as it would require a bunch of ME ID TLVs...in th= is way sender and destination can exchange MEP and other IDs for the gamut = of OAM functions. hope this helps D ________________________________ From: mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Elisa Bellagamba Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:56 PM To: mpls-tp@ietf.org Subject: [mpls-tp] Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mp= ls-tp-oam-ext Hello, We are planning to upload an updated version of http://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-03 for the week of December = the 7th. We would like to receive as many comments as possible from you before that = date. We are already working on keeping aligned this draft with the http://tools.= ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-02 and the other exist= ing technology specific drafts. Loa will send a specific email to discuss t= his point. Thanks to who will provide some feedbacks! Regards, Elisa --_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFFEUSAACMS0703e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mp= ls-tp-oam-ext
HI Elisa:
 
A few comments = on the=20 draft...
 
1) Consistent with the OAM framework, you ma= y want to=20 identify the scope as intended to be broader than simply the exemplary BFD = in=20 the introduction, a suggestion would=20 be:
 
    - the exchange or configurati= on of=20 identifiers used explicitly as part of data=20 plane OAM procedures  for the MEG and the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, ME= G=20 ID...?), this is clearly above and beyond BFD as it would apply to all on-d= emand=20 functions as well as the proactive monitoring ones...
 
    - the exchange, negotiation o= r=20 configuration of parameters associated with proactive monitoring=20 functions
        (in t= he=20 future periodicity of PM may also figure into this...)
 
Out of scope would be the triggering o= f the=20 performance of on-demand functions above and beyond the OAM identifier exchange to facilitate&nbs= p;on=20 demand operation identified above...as these are typically operator initiat= ed,=20 and do not need any further ap= riori=20 setup by the control plane...
 
2) I belie= ve=20 one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by simply=20 deprecating CC as it was simply a degenera= te=20 version of CV, at least I advocated= that=20 and thought there was agreement in the room.=20 So assuming no objections appear to this= =20 email, you can simplify the draft by taking the CC aspects out...
 
3) 2nd para of section 2. Presumably we are = applying=20 BFD to the full gamut of paths.... co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, uni= -dir=20 p2p and unidir p2mp... the description focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would need some=20 elaboration....
 
4) 4th para of section 2... although BFD allows= =20 asymmetrical periods (different sen= d rates=20 at either end of the path), transport is about an availaility definition th= at=20 would assume a common rate and the TLV des= ign=20 seems to reflect this as it only exchanges suggested TX rates... if = you=20 are to generalize this across the MPLS architecture, you may want to separa= te=20 out "what the sender wants to send" and "what the sender will tolerate from= the=20 destination"...right now my read of the TLVs is=20 what the sender will send and by=20 inference what it expects the destination to send... it is not clear= to=20 me what happens if these values get adjusted...
 
5) Section 3 para 2... you use ingress and egres= s to=20 describe the signalling roles, while RFC 3209 already has estalished sender= and=20 destination nodes as the "proper terms"...it would be best to line up with= =20 existing terminology where possible.
 
6) S= ection=20 3.3.2, I'm not sure what I'm missing but I cannot find a description o= f the=20 "detect. mult" field...
 
7) I= 'd move the=20 source unique MEP TLV up to being a peer of the BFD TLVs instead of a=20 sub-TLV as it would be independent of BFD itself...and of utility for = Ping,=20 PM etc.  There should also be a MEG ID TLV and an ME TLV...P2MP needin= g a=20 bit of thought as it would require a bunch of ME ID TLVs...in this way sender and destination can exchange = MEP and=20 other IDs for the gamut of OAM=20 functions.
 
hope this=20 helps
D
 

From: mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Elisa=20 Bellagamba
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:56 PM
To:=20 mpls-tp@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls-tp] Asking for comments on=20 draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext


Hello,

We are planning to upload an updated version= of=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-= oam-ext-03 for the week of December the 7th.

We would like to receive as many comments as= possible=20 from you before that date.

We are already working on keeping aligned th= is draft=20 with the http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-= 02 and the other existing technology specific drafts. L= oa will=20 send a specific email to discuss this point.

Thanks to who will provide some feedbacks!=20

Regards,
Elisa

--_000_60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFFEUSAACMS0703e_-- From neil.2.harrison@bt.com Fri Nov 27 05:49:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2543A67F3; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hnz1qCjVDueI; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp3.smtp.bt.com (smtp3.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.138]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC5E23A699E; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from E03MVB2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.110]) by smtp3.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:49:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA6F68.778D9AB4" Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:49:37 -0000 Message-ID: <2ECAA42C79676B42AEBAC11229CA7D0C055ACADF@E03MVB2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net> In-Reply-To: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFF@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Asking for commentson draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext Thread-Index: AcpuuVi7f6/J1uH7Tk6HAQ+2DrqMSgAoYa5AAAMKqWA= From: To: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2009 13:49:41.0412 (UTC) FILETIME=[78016640:01CA6F68] Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Asking for commentson draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:49:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6F68.778D9AB4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Apologies not had time to read the draft, but just wanted to strongly support a comment from Dave....have snipped mail below to this: =20 David Allan wrote 27 November 2009 13:15 =09 2) I believe one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by simply deprecating CC as it was simply a degenerate version of CV, at least I advocated that and thought there was agreement in the room. So assuming no objections appear to this email, you can simplify the draft by taking the CC aspects out... =20 NH=3D> A bit of history might also help here. I coined the term CV (Connectivity Verification) to differentiate it from CC (Continuity Check) because CC was originally associated with ATM OAM message where the CC message did NOT contain an absolute source address of the connection (just a null payload)......which is not a very smart idea if one is trying to detect misconnectivity and identify the source of this! The original CC messages in ATM need only be sent when traffic was quiescent to 'maintain knowledge of still connected' as a sort of trivial BW saving device (not a good reason). =20 So I support Dave's comments. =20 regards, Neil =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6F68.778D9AB4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Asking for comments on = draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext
Apologies not had time = to read the=20 draft, but just wanted to strongly support a comment from Dave....have = snipped=20 mail below to this:
 

David Allan  wrote 27 = November 2009=20 13:15
<snipped>=
2) I = believe=20 one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by = simply=20 deprecating CC as it was simply a = degenerate=20 version of CV, at least I = advocated that=20 and thought there was agreement in the room.=20 So assuming no objections appear to = this=20 email, you can simplify the draft by = taking the CC aspects out...
 
NH=3D> A bit of = history might also=20 help here.  I coined the term CV (Connectivity Verification) to=20 differentiate it from CC (Continuity Check) because CC was originally=20 associated with ATM OAM message where the CC message did NOT contain = an=20 absolute source address of the connection (just a null = payload)......which is=20 not a very smart idea if one is trying to detect misconnectivity and = identify=20 the source of this!  The original CC messages in ATM need only be = sent=20 when traffic was quiescent to 'maintain knowledge of still connected' = as a=20 sort of trivial BW saving device (not a good = reason).
 
So I support Dave's=20 comments.
 
regards, = Neil
 
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01CA6F68.778D9AB4-- From gregb@grotto-networking.com Fri Nov 27 11:46:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 598AF3A6851 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:46:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.646, BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tv9MUq1dZxHJ for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:46:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail30c40.carrierzone.com (mail30c40.carrierzone.com [209.235.156.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108823A67EA for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:46:56 -0800 (PST) X-Authenticated-User: gregb.grotto-networking.com Received: from [192.168.0.131] (c-71-202-41-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.41.133] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail30c40.carrierzone.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id nARJkeQn011374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:46:44 GMT Message-ID: <4B102CA7.9010208@grotto-networking.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:46:47 -0800 From: Greg Bernstein User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: CCAMP References: <4B0590E5.3000005@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <4B0590E5.3000005@labn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Continuing the charter discussion from last week X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:46:58 -0000 Hi Lou and Deborah, the updated charter and milestones look good. The bullet item on how CCAMP deals with existing data planes (extension and/or modification is out of scope) will hopefully reduce some of the redundant comments we have received in the past. Greg Lou Berger wrote: > All, > In last week's meeting we began a discussion on updating the WG's > charter. In that discussion we said that we'd post the proposed > revisions to the list and solicit additional feedback. This message > serves that purpose. > > Please review and comment on the proposed new charter enclosed below. > See the slides from the session for diffs: > http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/76/slides/ccamp-29.ppt > > Please send comments as soon as possible as we'd like to conclude the > charter discussion in approximately 2 weeks. > > Thank you, > Lou (and Deborah) > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Proposed charter - Rev Nov 19, 2009 > > Additional information is available at tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp > > Chair(s): > • Deborah Brungard > • Lou Berger > > Routing Area Director(s): > • Ross Callon > • Adrian Farrel > > Routing Area Advisor: > • Adrian Farrel > > Secretary(ies): > • Daniel King > > Mailing Lists: > > General Discussion: ccamp@ietf.org > To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > Archive: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ccamp/current/maillist.html > > Description of Working Group: > > Organizational Overview > > The CCAMP working group coordinates the work within the IETF defining a > common control plane and a separate common measurement plane for > physical path and core tunneling technologies of Internet and telecom > service providers (ISPs and SPs), e.g. O-O and O-E-O optical switches, > TDM Switches, Ethernet Switches, ATM and Frame Relay switches, IP > encapsulation tunneling technologies, and MPLS in cooperation with the > MPLS WG. > > In this context, measurement refers to the acquisition and distribution > of attributes relevant to the setting up of tunnels and paths. > > CCAMP WG work scope includes: > > - Definition of protocol-independent metrics and parameters (measurement > attributes) for describing links and paths that are required for > routing and signaling. These will be developed in conjunction with > requests and requirements from other WGs to ensure overall usefulness. > > - Definition of and extensions to protocols for link and path attribute > measurement. This includes the Link Management Protocol (LMP). > > - Functional specification of extensions for GMPLS-related routing > (OSPF, ISIS) and signaling (RSVP-TE) protocols required for path > establishment. Protocol formats and procedures that embody these > extensions will be done jointly with the WGs supervising those > protocols. > > - Definition of the mechanisms required to determine the route and > properties of an established path (tunnel tracing). > > - Definition of management objects (e.g., as part of MIB modules) and > control of OAM techniques relevant to the protocols and extensions > specified within the WG. > > - Work on traffic-engineering GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions > to support source-controlled and explicitly-routed data paths for data > planes that are already approved by a Standards Development > Organization (SDO). Note that the specification or modification of > data planes is out of scope of this working group. Example data planes > include Wavelength Switched Optical Networks (WSON), Optical Transport > Networks (OTN), Ethernet, and the MPLS data plane. > > - Work on GMPLS mechanisms and protocol extensions to support the > transport profile of MPLS (MPLS-TP) in cooperation with the MPLS, > L2VPN, and PWE3 Working Group and in coordination with the > requirements expressed jointly by the IETF and ITU-T. > > CCAMP WG currently works on the following tasks: > > - Define how the properties of network resources gathered by a > measurement protocol (or by other means e.g. configured) can be > distributed in existing routing protocols, such as OSPF and > IS-IS. CCAMP will work with the WGs that supervise these > protocols. The specifics of distribution within IS-IS are being > addressed in the ISIS WG. Current work activities are focused in the > areas of WSON and OTN. > > - Define signaling and routing mechanisms and extensions to allow path > and tunnel setup and maintenance across multiple domains, where a > domain may be an IGP area, an Autonomous System, or any other region > of topological visibility. To this end, work cooperatively with the > PCE and MPLS WGs. > > - Define abstract link and path properties needed for link and path > protection. Specify signaling mechanisms for path protection, diverse > routing and fast path restoration. Ensure that multi-layer path > protection and restoration functions are achievable using the defined > signaling, routing, and measurement protocols, either separately or in > combination. > > - Identify signaling and routing requirements for supporting extensions > to data plane technologies (e.g., WSON, OTN, MPLS-TP, and Ethernet) > and network architectures (e.g. ITU-T’s Automatically Switched Optical > Network (ASON)) not currently met by protocols defined in CCAMP; based > on these, define mechanisms to address these requirements. This > activity will build on documents produced by the WG, including > Informational, Standards Track and Experimental documents. > > - Produce extensions to the CCAMP WG protocols and RFCs necessary to > create an MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS TP). The work on the MPLS TP > will be coordinated between the MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, and CCAMP working > groups that are jointly chartered to do MPLS TP work. > > In doing this work, the WG will work closely with at least the following > other WGs: MPLS, L2VPN, PWE3, ISIS, OSPF, IDR, and PCE. The WG will also > cooperate with the ITU-T and the IEEE 802.1. > > Goals and Milestones: > > Dec 2009 Submit Protocol solutions for MLN/MRN I-D for IESG review > Dec 2009 Submit TE MIB module IESG review > Dec 2009 Submit Ethernet related drafts for IESG review > Dec 2009 Submit hierarchy bis for IESG review > Jan 2010 First version of WSON routing related Working Group drafts > Feb 2010 Submit VCAT/LCAS with GMPLS for IESG review > Apr 2010 First versions of impairments related solutions Working > Group drafts > Apr 2010 First version of G.709 enhancements framework Working Group > drafts > Apr 2010 First version of Working Group draft providing Control > Plane Framework for MPLS-TP > Apr 2010 First version of LMP Negotiation Working Group draft > May 2010 Submit Lambda labels draft for IESG review > May 2010 Submit WSON framework draft for IESG review > May 2010 Submit WSON impairment framework draft for IESG review > May 2010 Submit OAM configuration framework for IESG review > May 2010 First version of OAM configuration solutions Working > Group drafts > Aug 2010 First version of G.709 enhancements solutions Working > Group drafts > Aug 2010 First version of LMP for G.709 enhancements Working > Group drafts > Sep 2010 First version of Working Group draft defining RSVP-TE > extensions for MPLS-TP > Dec 2010 Submit WSON routing related for IESG review > Dec 2010 Submit impairments related solutions for IESG review > Dec 2010 Submit G.709 enhancements framework for IESG review > Dec 2010 Submit Control Plane Framework for MPLS-TP for IESG review > Mar 2011 Submit RSVP-TE extensions for MPLS-TP for IESG review > Apr 2011 Submit G.709 enhancements solutions for IESG review > Apr 2011 Submit LMP Negotiation for IESG review > Apr 2011 Submit last OAM configuration solutions for IESG review > Aug 2011 Submit LMP for G.709 enhancements for IESG review > Nov 2011 Recharter or close Working Group > > > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > -- =================================================== Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237 From ylee@huawei.com Sun Nov 29 13:51:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081823A68D8 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:51:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.185 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.185 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vDtjsY72lRIM for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com (usaga01-in.huawei.com [206.16.17.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472333A691C for ; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0KTW001K74PHFB@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from L73682 (pool-96-226-232-58.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [96.226.232.58]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0KTW001GS4PDHV@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for ccamp@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:51:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:50:57 -0600 From: Young Lee In-reply-to: To: "'BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS)'" , ccamp@ietf.org Message-id: <006c01ca713e$0856fcb0$6600a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thread-index: AcpsizIDlr6ZZNdXSjyNc42U4rlKIgEssk0A References: Subject: Re: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 21:51:25 -0000 Yes/Support Young -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A (ATTLABS) Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:21 PM To: ccamp@ietf.org Subject: [CCAMP] poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt ccamp wg document All, This is to start a two week poll on making draft-kern-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-01.txt a ccamp working group document. Send a mail to the mailing list indicating "yes/support" or "no/do not support". The poll ends Monday, Dec. 7, 2009. Deborah _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp From Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com Mon Nov 30 05:27:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA64B3A68E8; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:27:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uIWyLhmC62jx; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw5.ericsson.se (mailgw5.ericsson.se [193.180.251.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1474F3A6892; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 05:27:12 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb24-b7beeae000003a71-49-4b13c828f7de Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw5.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C9.FA.14961.828C31B4; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:27:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:25:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:25:34 +0100 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91092283B0@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <4B0FAEDB.8030104@pi.nu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated Thread-Index: AcpvT2WBK19EUerbT7qjKEnjT1p5mgCaHQOQ References: <4B0FAEDB.8030104@pi.nu> From: "Attila Takacs" To: "Loa Andersson" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2009 13:25:35.0065 (UTC) FILETIME=[99279C90:01CA71C0] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:27:14 -0000 Hi Loa,=20 Thanks for your review and comments! > There are a few issues that needs to be resolved. >=20 > 1. We need to understand how generic it is possible to capture > the OAM functions in the OAM Functions Flag Field in the OAM > Configuration TLV. > One idea with the flag field is that if you use default values for > a OAM flagged in the flag field you don't need further sub-TLVs. > However there seems to be different needs depending on=20 > the forwarding > planes, e.g. it seems that the Ethernet draft makes the assumption > that cc and cv is always run together at the same time, while in > mpls-tp context we see that cc without cv is possible, and cc is > implicit in proactive cv. > Now with the current "Connectivity Monitoring flag" it is=20 > perfectly > possible to take correct actions based on the default values for > Ethernet, but for mpls(-tp) you be required to add some extra > information. We can do this with using a mpls(-tp)=20 > specific sub-TLV, > there is no real problem in that, but we loses some of=20 > the power of > very simple trigger we have in the flag field. Or we=20 > could add a CC > flag to the flag field, and let the "Connectivity Monitoring flag" > represent th case where we use CC and CV in combination. > Again that is not a problem, but I concerned that if this is > recurring we would very quickly run out of in flags in the rather > small OAM Functions Flag Field. Extending the field would=20 > be one way > to resolve this. This is a point we discussed off-line in Hiroshima between Elisa, you and myself. The reason to progress the framewrok togeather with a set of technology specific documents is exactly to see what and how would fit into the framework and what needs to be technology specific. Up until now, having 3 flags seemed to be enough, there may indeed be a need to separate CC and CV as we see MPLS-TP OAM unfold. Also we need to see how other TP OAM functions will fit into the configuration fwk and/or if they are specific to the MPLS-TP OAM configuration document. In any case, one way to extend the flags field would be to have a dedicated flag at the end that would extend the field with an additional 32 flags. In paralell it would also be possible to define the flags to be scoped under technology specific documents. These two were Loa's proposal in Hiroshima. An alternative would be to remove the flags and let the OAM function specific sub-TLVs self represent the need of and trigger the establishment of the corresponding OAM function. This would, probably simplify the structure but would require more data to configure default OAM functions.=20 I think both alternatives are viable. >=20 > 2. Specifying and describing TLVs. In order to make RFCs easy to read > and understand the TLV specifications need to be precise=20 > and to the > point, I think there is a lot to be learned from e.g=20 > RFC5036, there > Bob create an art of clearly specifying e.g. TLVs. There is e.g a > clear and exactly matching list of explanations for each field in > in the TLV >=20 > In the four OAM Configuration drafts this is less clear. I'm not > picking on any draft or author here, yes requesting that we sue a > model that is as clear as in RFC5036. >=20 Since the darfts are still work in progress and are a result of continous evolution there is for sure room to improve the text.=20 > Again looking at the OAM Configuration TLV (but I'm not picking on > that one in particular, this is recurring) > - the Type field contains the value we want IANA to=20 > assign, this very > quickly becomes hard to track since IANA will assign=20 > may Type (2) > e.g. one each as sub-TLV for different TLVs. The type=20 > field should > contain the name of the TLV. > - what follows the TLV picture is a mix of defining what goes into > the and what behavior that is expected in some cases. > The list after should only indicates what goes into the=20 > TLV field > - E.g. under OAM type it says that an "error" should be=20 > generated if > the OAM type is not supported, I think this os an=20 > example of what > indicated where we find the error codes. > - names in the TLV picture and the list defining what=20 > goes into the > field should be the same. >=20 I could not decode the issue here, could you please clarify? Thanks, Attila > I realize that having said this it will be necessary to start=20 > sending text to the authors of the different drafts, will do=20 > so as soon as I can. >=20 >=20 > In order finally come up with a good control of OAM in gmpls=20 > we need to fix all four drafts. This does not in anyway=20 > require that we stop working on the technology specif draft,=20 > but fixes and clarifications in the framework needs to be=20 > reflected in the technology specific drafts. > From an MPLS-TP project view it is also necessary to=20 > progress the mpls-tp specific drafts early, at least in=20 > parallel with the other drafts. >=20 > /Loa > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email:=20 > loa.andersson@ericsson.com > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > +46 767 72 92=20 > 13 _______________________________________________ > mpls-tp mailing list > mpls-tp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-tp >=20 From elisa.bellagamba@ericsson.com Mon Nov 30 06:29:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55ED28C112; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:29:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NDLAOUW4Q8ZT; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw5.ericsson.se (mailgw5.ericsson.se [193.180.251.36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A5A28C116; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb24-b7beeae000003a71-b0-4b13d6d1f73f Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw5.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 79.B0.14961.1D6D31B4; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:29:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw103.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.66]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:29:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA71C9.8AA83B5D" Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:29:35 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFF@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext Thread-Index: AcpuuVi7f6/J1uH7Tk6HAQ+2DrqMSgAoYa5AAJhTw6A= References: <60C093A41B5E45409A19D42CF7786DFD4DF1403AFF@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> From: "Elisa Bellagamba" To: "David Allan I" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Nov 2009 14:29:36.0917 (UTC) FILETIME=[8B13B450:01CA71C9] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:29:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA71C9.8AA83B5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, =20 thanks a lot for your useful comments. you say that we broaden the scope beyond plain BFD e.g. by including > - the exchange or configuration of identifiers used explicitly as part of data plane OAM procedures for the MEG and the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, MEG ID...?), this is clearly above and beyond BFD as it would apply to all on-demand functions as well as the proactive monitoring ones... > - the exchange, negotiation or configuration of parameters associated with proactive monitoring functions (in the future periodicity of PM may also figure into this...) We'll try to include more clarity in the next version of the draft. You also say: > Presumably we are applying BFD to the full gamut of paths...co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, uni-dir p2p and unidir p2mp... the description focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would need some elaboration.... Could you help us with text on this? =20 Thanks, Elisa ________________________________ From: David Allan I=20 Sent: den 27 november 2009 14:15 To: Elisa Bellagamba; mpls-tp@ietf.org; ccamp@ietf.org Subject: RE: Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext HI Elisa: =20 A few comments on the draft... =20 1) Consistent with the OAM framework, you may want to identify the scope as intended to be broader than simply the exemplary BFD in the introduction, a suggestion would be: =20 - the exchange or configuration of identifiers used explicitly as part of data plane OAM procedures for the MEG and the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, MEG ID...?), this is clearly above and beyond BFD as it would apply to all on-demand functions as well as the proactive monitoring ones... =20 - the exchange, negotiation or configuration of parameters associated with proactive monitoring functions (in the future periodicity of PM may also figure into this...) =20 Out of scope would be the triggering of the performance of on-demand functions above and beyond the OAM identifier exchange to facilitate on demand operation identified above...as these are typically operator initiated, and do not need any further apriori setup by the control plane... =20 2) I believe one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by simply deprecating CC as it was simply a degenerate version of CV, at least I advocated that and thought there was agreement in the room. So assuming no objections appear to this email, you can simplify the draft by taking the CC aspects out... =20 3) 2nd para of section 2. Presumably we are applying BFD to the full gamut of paths.... co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, uni-dir p2p and unidir p2mp... the description focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would need some elaboration.... =20 4) 4th para of section 2... although BFD allows asymmetrical periods (different send rates at either end of the path), transport is about an availaility definition that would assume a common rate and the TLV design seems to reflect this as it only exchanges suggested TX rates... if you are to generalize this across the MPLS architecture, you may want to separate out "what the sender wants to send" and "what the sender will tolerate from the destination"...right now my read of the TLVs is what the sender will send and by inference what it expects the destination to send... it is not clear to me what happens if these values get adjusted... =20 5) Section 3 para 2... you use ingress and egress to describe the signalling roles, while RFC 3209 already has estalished sender and destination nodes as the "proper terms"...it would be best to line up with existing terminology where possible. =20 6) Section 3.3.2, I'm not sure what I'm missing but I cannot find a description of the "detect. mult" field... =20 7) I'd move the source unique MEP TLV up to being a peer of the BFD TLVs instead of a sub-TLV as it would be independent of BFD itself...and of utility for Ping, PM etc. There should also be a MEG ID TLV and an ME TLV...P2MP needing a bit of thought as it would require a bunch of ME ID TLVs...in this way sender and destination can exchange MEP and other IDs for the gamut of OAM functions. =20 hope this helps D =20 ________________________________ From: mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Elisa Bellagamba Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:56 PM To: mpls-tp@ietf.org Subject: [mpls-tp] Asking for comments on draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext Hello,=20 We are planning to upload an updated version of http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ex t-03 for the week of December the 7th.=20 We would like to receive as many comments as possible from you before that date.=20 We are already working on keeping aligned this draft with the http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk-02 and the other existing technology specific drafts. Loa will send a specific email to discuss this point. Thanks to who will provide some feedbacks!=20 Regards,=20 Elisa=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA71C9.8AA83B5D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Asking for comments on = draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext
Dave,
 
thanks a lot for your useful comments.

you say that we broaden = the scope=20 beyond plain BFD e.g. by=20 including

>    = - the=20 exchange or configuration of identifiers used explicitly as part = of data plane OAM procedures  for = the MEG and=20 the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, MEG ID...?), this is clearly above and = beyond=20 BFD as it would apply to all on-demand functions as well as the = proactive=20 monitoring ones...

>    - the exchange, = negotiation or configuration of parameters associated with = proactive=20 monitoring functions
        = (in the=20 future periodicity of PM may also figure into=20 this...)

We'll try to include more clarity in the next = version of=20 the draft.

You also say:

> Presumably we = are applying=20 BFD to the full gamut of paths...co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, = uni-dir=20 p2p and unidir p2mp... the = description=20 focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would = need=20 some elaboration....

Could you help us with text on=20 this?

 
Thanks,
Elisa

From: David Allan I
Sent: = den 27=20 november 2009 14:15
To: Elisa Bellagamba; mpls-tp@ietf.org;=20 ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Asking for comments on=20 draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext

HI Elisa:
 
A few = comments on the=20 draft...
 
1) Consistent with the OAM framework, you = may want to=20 identify the scope as intended to be broader than simply the exemplary = BFD in=20 the introduction, a suggestion would=20 be:
 
    - the exchange or = configuration of=20 identifiers used explicitly as part of data=20 plane OAM procedures  for the MEG and the ME (MEP ID, ME ID, = MEG=20 ID...?), this is clearly above and beyond BFD as it would apply to all = on-demand=20 functions as well as the proactive monitoring = ones...
 
    - the exchange, = negotiation or=20 configuration of parameters associated with proactive monitoring=20 functions
        = (in the=20 future periodicity of PM may also figure into = this...)
 
Out of scope would be the = triggering of the=20 performance of on-demand functions above and beyond the OAM identifier exchange to = facilitate on=20 demand operation identified above...as these are typically operator = initiated,=20 and do not need any further = apriori=20 setup by the control plane...
 
2) I = believe=20 one agreement in Hiroshima was to consolidate CC and CV by simply = deprecating CC as it was simply a = degenerate=20 version of CV, at least I = advocated that=20 and thought there was agreement in the room.=20 So assuming no objections appear to = this=20 email, you can simplify the draft by = taking the CC aspects out...
 
3) 2nd para of section 2. Presumably we = are applying=20 BFD to the full gamut of paths.... co-routed bi-dir, associated bi-dir, = uni-dir=20 p2p and unidir p2mp... the description focuses on co-routed bi-dir and would need some=20 elaboration....
 
4) 4th para of section 2... although BFD = allows=20 asymmetrical periods (different = send rates=20 at either end of the path), transport is about an availaility definition = that=20 would assume a common rate and the TLV = design=20 seems to reflect this as it only exchanges suggested TX rates... = if you=20 are to generalize this across the MPLS architecture, you may want to = separate=20 out "what the sender wants to send" and "what the sender will tolerate = from the=20 destination"...right now my read of the TLVs is=20 what the sender will send and by=20 inference what it expects the destination to send... it is not = clear to=20 me what happens if these values get adjusted...
 
5) Section 3 para 2... you use ingress and = egress to=20 describe the signalling roles, while RFC 3209 already has estalished = sender and=20 destination nodes as the "proper terms"...it would be best to line up = with=20 existing terminology where possible.
 
6) Section=20 3.3.2, I'm not sure what I'm missing but I cannot find a = description of the=20 "detect. mult" field...
 
7) I'd move the=20 source unique MEP TLV up to being a peer of the BFD TLVs instead of a=20 sub-TLV as it would be independent of BFD itself...and of utility = for Ping,=20 PM etc.  There should also be a MEG ID TLV and an ME TLV...P2MP = needing a=20 bit of thought as it would require a bunch of ME ID TLVs...in this way sender and destination can = exchange MEP and=20 other IDs for the gamut of OAM=20 functions.
 
hope = this=20 helps
D
 

From: mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:mpls-tp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Elisa=20 Bellagamba
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:56 = PM
To:=20 mpls-tp@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls-tp] Asking for comments on=20 draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext


Hello,

We are planning to upload an updated = version of=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bellagamba-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-t= p-oam-ext-03 for the week of December the 7th.

We would like to receive as many comments = as possible=20 from you before that date.

We are already working on keeping aligned = this draft=20 with the http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fw= k-02 and the other existing technology specific = drafts. Loa will=20 send a specific email to discuss this point.

Thanks to who will provide some = feedbacks!=20

Regards,
Elisa

------_=_NextPart_001_01CA71C9.8AA83B5D-- From agmalis@gmail.com Mon Nov 30 09:43:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5363A6AB2; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:43:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yC0zA++Mzl8J; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f192.google.com (mail-yx0-f192.google.com [209.85.210.192]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83053A692F; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by yxe30 with SMTP id 30so9188910yxe.29 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:43:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1iyeVJH1dQTr4ELk/N2gj2ikqtg14fcmMkCMgHVV3Yc=; b=MGk1MdahR+UGQgSXqLP/duDJxnoQ4Sc0EJ6SAdzsH1jpjNbSK7u6qvzUoigHvInkQh g2uZQJdQguB6XWozVC+kGy1GSJu5XmNL1/nZM8ijVizyzYZij3Ilu6z7GQHNmn3Huvuj 3XhGE2rGnv7Fc6nwHXbn9bFzgNlq+GlJ4QK8s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=enbXBZeFTPS9YWJHHxBPz8nV+2+55g3ceA6YTr2FHa1eKdq/re7J7bu+7mvz3mHVXt SHbWczC+utrjnCnjmd7kfVo/sxGumcoIWWjrRTKh8YeyXshCvu4YzdElY06thFJ1uhNj 1gjkXGfehom9VNccXSJkP5wi1aBIUlcOnkid8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.83.10 with SMTP id k10mr1762955anl.130.1259603004228; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:43:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91092283B0@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> References: <4B0FAEDB.8030104@pi.nu> <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91092283B0@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:43:04 +0100 Message-ID: <8c99930d0911300943k413eeb56md6669e3ba86cc614@mail.gmail.com> To: Attila Takacs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, mpls-tp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:43:37 -0000 Attila and Loa, I certainly agree that the four drafts in question need to be consistent and should be worked in parallel to keep them that way. Also, Loa's request to follow Bob's precedent in RFC 5036 for TLV specification is certainly reasonable. Also, the first alternative in Attila's email (adding an additional 32 flag bits) seems the simpler choice. Cheers, Andy On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Attila Takacs wrote: > Hi Loa, > > Thanks for your review and comments! > >> There are a few issues that needs to be resolved. >> >> 1. We need to understand how generic it is possible to capture >> =A0 =A0 the OAM functions in the OAM Functions Flag Field in the OAM >> =A0 =A0 Configuration TLV. >> =A0 =A0 One idea with the flag field is that if you use default values f= or >> =A0 =A0 a OAM flagged in the flag field you don't need further sub-TLVs. >> =A0 =A0 However there seems to be different needs depending on >> the forwarding >> =A0 =A0 planes, e.g. it seems that the Ethernet draft makes the assumpti= on >> =A0 =A0 that cc and cv is always run together at the same time, while in >> =A0 =A0 mpls-tp context we see that cc without cv is possible, and cc is >> =A0 =A0 implicit in proactive cv. >> =A0 =A0 Now with the current "Connectivity Monitoring flag" it is >> perfectly >> =A0 =A0 possible to take correct actions based on the default values for >> =A0 =A0 Ethernet, but for mpls(-tp) you be required to add some extra >> =A0 =A0 information. We can do this with using a mpls(-tp) >> specific sub-TLV, >> =A0 =A0 there is no real problem in that, but we loses some of >> the power of >> =A0 =A0 very simple trigger we have in the flag field. Or we >> could add a CC >> =A0 =A0 flag to the flag field, and let the "Connectivity Monitoring fla= g" >> =A0 =A0 represent th case where we use CC and CV in combination. >> =A0 =A0 Again that is not a problem, but I concerned that if this is >> =A0 =A0 recurring we would very quickly run out of in flags in the rathe= r >> =A0 =A0 small OAM Functions Flag Field. Extending the field would >> be one way >> =A0 =A0 to resolve this. > > This is a point we discussed off-line in Hiroshima between Elisa, you > and myself. The reason to progress the framewrok togeather with a set of > technology specific documents is exactly to see what and how would fit > into the framework and what needs to be technology specific. > > Up until now, having 3 flags seemed to be enough, there may indeed be a > need to separate CC and CV as we see MPLS-TP OAM unfold. Also we need to > see how other TP OAM functions will fit into the configuration fwk > and/or if they are specific to the MPLS-TP OAM configuration document. > > In any case, one way to extend the flags field would be to have a > dedicated flag at the end that would extend the field with an additional > 32 flags. In paralell it would also be possible to define the flags to > be scoped under technology specific documents. These two were Loa's > proposal in Hiroshima. > > An alternative would be to remove the flags and let the OAM function > specific sub-TLVs self represent the need of and trigger the > establishment of the corresponding OAM function. This would, probably > simplify the structure but would require more data to configure default > OAM functions. > > I think both alternatives are viable. > >> >> 2. Specifying and describing TLVs. In order to make RFCs easy to read >> =A0 =A0 and understand the TLV specifications need to be precise >> and to the >> =A0 =A0 point, I think there is a lot to be learned from e.g >> RFC5036, there >> =A0 =A0 Bob create an art of clearly specifying e.g. TLVs. There is e.g = a >> =A0 =A0 clear and exactly matching list of explanations for each field i= n >> =A0 =A0 in the TLV >> >> =A0 =A0 In the four OAM Configuration drafts this is less clear. I'm not >> =A0 =A0 picking on any draft or author here, yes requesting that we sue = a >> =A0 =A0 model that is as clear as in RFC5036. >> > > Since the darfts are still work in progress and are a result of > continous evolution there is for sure room to improve the text. > >> =A0 =A0 Again looking at the OAM Configuration TLV (but I'm not picking = on >> =A0 =A0 that one in particular, this is recurring) >> =A0 =A0 - the Type field contains the value we want IANA to >> assign, this very >> =A0 =A0 =A0 quickly becomes hard to track since IANA will assign >> may Type (2) >> =A0 =A0 =A0 e.g. one each as sub-TLV for different TLVs. The type >> field should >> =A0 =A0 =A0 contain the name of the TLV. >> =A0 =A0 - what follows the TLV picture is a mix of defining what goes in= to >> =A0 =A0 =A0 the and what behavior that is expected in some cases. >> =A0 =A0 =A0 The list after should only indicates what goes into the >> TLV field >> =A0 =A0 - E.g. under OAM type it says that an "error" should be >> generated if >> =A0 =A0 =A0 the OAM type is not supported, I think this os an >> example of what >> =A0 =A0 =A0 indicated where we find the error codes. >> =A0 =A0 - names in the TLV picture and the list defining what >> goes into the >> =A0 =A0 =A0 field should be the same. >> > > I could not decode the issue here, could you please clarify? > > Thanks, > Attila > >> I realize that having said this it will be necessary to start >> sending text to the authors of the different drafts, will do >> so as soon as I can. >> >> >> In order finally come up with a good control of OAM in gmpls >> we need to fix all four drafts. This does not in anyway >> require that we stop working on the technology specif draft, >> but fixes and clarifications in the framework needs to be >> reflected in the technology specific drafts. >> =A0From an MPLS-TP project view it is also necessary to >> progress the mpls-tp specific drafts early, at least in >> parallel with the other drafts. >> >> /Loa >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 email: >> loa.andersson@ericsson.com >> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu >> Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: += 46 10 717 52 13 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +46 767 72 92 >> 13 _______________________________________________ >> mpls-tp mailing list >> mpls-tp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-tp >> > _______________________________________________ > CCAMP mailing list > CCAMP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > From Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com Mon Nov 30 22:21:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ccamp@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8823A6AF8; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:21:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrQ+EjylcBEz; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9503A6AFF; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:20:59 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b7b08ae000000935-b5-4b14b5c2d5d6 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2E.8A.02357.2C5B41B4; Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:20:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.7]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:20:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:20:49 +0100 Message-ID: <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E910925C4DB@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <8c99930d0911300943k413eeb56md6669e3ba86cc614@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated Thread-Index: Acpx5J85N+ZCBZ1ySJiINRBJH5hDYgAZ1BIg References: <4B0FAEDB.8030104@pi.nu> <53CCFDD6E346CB43994852666C210E91092283B0@esealmw116.eemea.ericsson.se> <8c99930d0911300943k413eeb56md6669e3ba86cc614@mail.gmail.com> From: "Attila Takacs" To: "DEBORAH A, ATTLABS BRUNGARD" , "Lou Berger" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2009 06:20:50.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[6D7DFFB0:01CA724E] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: ccamp@ietf.org, mpls-tp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated X-BeenThere: ccamp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for the CCAMP working group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 06:21:02 -0000 Hi Deborah, Lou, all, Given the interest in the new technology specific OAM configuration = documents and the proposed update of the framework itself, the authors = of draft-kern and draft-bellagamba would like to work together updating = their documents, in parallel with an update of the framework document, = before asking to become WG documents.=20 Hence, I would like to ask the CCAMP chairs to suspend the call of = draft-kern, and reinitiate it once the updates took place. Thanks, Attila > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:agmalis@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:43 PM > To: Attila Takacs > Cc: Loa Andersson; mpls-tp@ietf.org; ccamp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [mpls-tp] OAM configuration via the=20 > control plane - four drafts that needs to coordinated >=20 > Attila and Loa, >=20 > I certainly agree that the four drafts in question need to be=20 > consistent and should be worked in parallel to keep them that way. > Also, Loa's request to follow Bob's precedent in RFC 5036 for=20 > TLV specification is certainly reasonable. Also, the first=20 > alternative in Attila's email (adding an additional 32 flag=20 > bits) seems the simpler choice. >=20 > Cheers, > Andy >=20 > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Attila Takacs=20 > wrote: > > Hi Loa, > > > > Thanks for your review and comments! > > > >> There are a few issues that needs to be resolved. > >> > >> 1. We need to understand how generic it is possible to capture > >> =A0 =A0 the OAM functions in the OAM Functions Flag Field in the = OAM > >> =A0 =A0 Configuration TLV. > >> =A0 =A0 One idea with the flag field is that if you use default = values=20 > >> for > >> =A0 =A0 a OAM flagged in the flag field you don't need further=20 > sub-TLVs. > >> =A0 =A0 However there seems to be different needs depending on the=20 > >> forwarding > >> =A0 =A0 planes, e.g. it seems that the Ethernet draft makes the=20 > >> assumption > >> =A0 =A0 that cc and cv is always run together at the same=20 > time, while in > >> =A0 =A0 mpls-tp context we see that cc without cv is possible,=20 > and cc is > >> =A0 =A0 implicit in proactive cv. > >> =A0 =A0 Now with the current "Connectivity Monitoring flag" it is=20 > >> perfectly > >> =A0 =A0 possible to take correct actions based on the default=20 > values for > >> =A0 =A0 Ethernet, but for mpls(-tp) you be required to add some = extra > >> =A0 =A0 information. We can do this with using a mpls(-tp) specific = > >> sub-TLV, > >> =A0 =A0 there is no real problem in that, but we loses some of=20 > the power=20 > >> of > >> =A0 =A0 very simple trigger we have in the flag field. Or we=20 > could add a=20 > >> CC > >> =A0 =A0 flag to the flag field, and let the "Connectivity=20 > Monitoring flag" > >> =A0 =A0 represent th case where we use CC and CV in combination. > >> =A0 =A0 Again that is not a problem, but I concerned that if this = is > >> =A0 =A0 recurring we would very quickly run out of in flags in=20 > the rather > >> =A0 =A0 small OAM Functions Flag Field. Extending the field=20 > would be one=20 > >> way > >> =A0 =A0 to resolve this. > > > > This is a point we discussed off-line in Hiroshima between=20 > Elisa, you=20 > > and myself. The reason to progress the framewrok togeather=20 > with a set=20 > > of technology specific documents is exactly to see what and=20 > how would=20 > > fit into the framework and what needs to be technology specific. > > > > Up until now, having 3 flags seemed to be enough, there may=20 > indeed be=20 > > a need to separate CC and CV as we see MPLS-TP OAM unfold. Also we=20 > > need to see how other TP OAM functions will fit into the=20 > configuration=20 > > fwk and/or if they are specific to the MPLS-TP OAM=20 > configuration document. > > > > In any case, one way to extend the flags field would be to have a=20 > > dedicated flag at the end that would extend the field with an=20 > > additional > > 32 flags. In paralell it would also be possible to define=20 > the flags to=20 > > be scoped under technology specific documents. These two were Loa's=20 > > proposal in Hiroshima. > > > > An alternative would be to remove the flags and let the OAM=20 > function=20 > > specific sub-TLVs self represent the need of and trigger the=20 > > establishment of the corresponding OAM function. This=20 > would, probably=20 > > simplify the structure but would require more data to configure=20 > > default OAM functions. > > > > I think both alternatives are viable. > > > >> > >> 2. Specifying and describing TLVs. In order to make RFCs=20 > easy to read > >> =A0 =A0 and understand the TLV specifications need to be=20 > precise and to=20 > >> the > >> =A0 =A0 point, I think there is a lot to be learned from e.g = RFC5036,=20 > >> there > >> =A0 =A0 Bob create an art of clearly specifying e.g. TLVs.=20 > There is e.g a > >> =A0 =A0 clear and exactly matching list of explanations for=20 > each field in > >> =A0 =A0 in the TLV > >> > >> =A0 =A0 In the four OAM Configuration drafts this is less=20 > clear. I'm not > >> =A0 =A0 picking on any draft or author here, yes requesting=20 > that we sue a > >> =A0 =A0 model that is as clear as in RFC5036. > >> > > > > Since the darfts are still work in progress and are a result of=20 > > continous evolution there is for sure room to improve the text. > > > >> =A0 =A0 Again looking at the OAM Configuration TLV (but I'm=20 > not picking=20 > >> on > >> =A0 =A0 that one in particular, this is recurring) > >> =A0 =A0 - the Type field contains the value we want IANA to=20 > assign, this=20 > >> very > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 quickly becomes hard to track since IANA will assign=20 > may Type=20 > >> (2) > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 e.g. one each as sub-TLV for different TLVs. The type = field=20 > >> should > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 contain the name of the TLV. > >> =A0 =A0 - what follows the TLV picture is a mix of defining what = goes=20 > >> into > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 the and what behavior that is expected in some cases. > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 The list after should only indicates what goes into the = TLV=20 > >> field > >> =A0 =A0 - E.g. under OAM type it says that an "error" should=20 > be generated=20 > >> if > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 the OAM type is not supported, I think this os an = example of=20 > >> what > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 indicated where we find the error codes. > >> =A0 =A0 - names in the TLV picture and the list defining what=20 > goes into=20 > >> the > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 field should be the same. > >> > > > > I could not decode the issue here, could you please clarify? > > > > Thanks, > > Attila > > > >> I realize that having said this it will be necessary to=20 > start sending=20 > >> text to the authors of the different drafts, will do so as=20 > soon as I=20 > >> can. > >> > >> > >> In order finally come up with a good control of OAM in=20 > gmpls we need=20 > >> to fix all four drafts. This does not in anyway require=20 > that we stop=20 > >> working on the technology specif draft, but fixes and=20 > clarifications=20 > >> in the framework needs to be reflected in the technology specific=20 > >> drafts. > >> =A0From an MPLS-TP project view it is also necessary to progress = the=20 > >> mpls-tp specific drafts early, at least in parallel with the other=20 > >> drafts. > >> > >> /Loa > >> -- > >> > >> > >> Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = email: > >> loa.andersson@ericsson.com > >> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu=20 > Ericsson Inc =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > >> phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 +46 767 72 92 > >> 13 _______________________________________________ > >> mpls-tp mailing list > >> mpls-tp@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls-tp > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > >=20