
From sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Dec  1 01:30:33 2011
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 10:29:56 +0100
Thread-Topic: R: [CCAMP] Framework and Information model for G.709 Optical Transport Networks (OTN) consideration post-IETF82
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] R: R: Framework and Information model for G.709 Optical Transport Networks (OTN) consideration post-IETF82
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Lou,

See in line

BR

Sergio


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Inviato: mercoled=EC 30 novembre 2011 13.34
A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
Cc: CCAMP; John E Drake
Oggetto: Re: R: [CCAMP] Framework and Information model for G.709 Optical T=
ransport Networks (OTN) consideration post-IETF82

Sergio,
	At a minimum, the solutions draft MUST cover what happens when a
pre-G709v3 (or non-G709v3) GMPLS node exchanges CP messages with a
G709v3 GMPLS node.  For example, what happens when a G709v3 GMPLS node
exchanges messages with a node supporting only LSC or ethernet. You can
even just state something as simple as what's in rfc6002 section 2.1.
This is just a matter of correct protocol behavior and should not be a
"big" deal or discussion.

SB> Sure

You seem to also want to cover G.709v1 and G709v3 interoperability.
This is a fine thing to consider, but has nothing to do with the comment.

SB> I know, the aim of co-authors's mail, was exactly to ask WG whether the=
re was interest to step forward a simple compatibility. If no interest, def=
initely no problem to avoid effort.=20

On 11/30/2011 4:29 AM, BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) wrote:
> Lou,
> Thanks for clarification , I understood during my presentation that the c=
omment was a remind referred to another past meeting (in which I was not pr=
esent).
> The aim of the mail is trying to understand how to address the "what is b=
eing done" that cannot be independent of the type of possible network scena=
rios.=20
> We need to understand , particularly from company-people with per-G.709.v=
3 implementation(John has perfectly pointed out the issue), what could be t=
he typical scenarios to be addressed.
> We have tried to set the focus on two out of them, and we'd like to hear =
from WG the approval or not to work on them.
> We cannot start to work before an agreement on that.
>=20
> Sergio  =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
> Inviato: marted=EC 29 novembre 2011 13.02
> A: BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> Cc: CCAMP
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] Framework and Information model for G.709 Optical Tr=
ansport Networks (OTN) consideration post-IETF82
>=20
> Sergio,
> 	My comment actually comes from two meetings ago and was based on the
> routing and signaling drafts each having their own compatibility
> sections (sections 6 and 6.5, respectively), and the framework not
> having one at all.  As you note, control plane compatibility is
> something typically addressed in GMPLS.  I think the framework needs to
> cover what approach is being taken to ensure *control plane* operation
> when a pre-G709v3 GMPLS node exchanges CP messages with a G709v3 GMPLS
> node.  In short, the framework should say *what* is being done with
> respect to CP compatibility, the routing and signaling documents should
> say *how* CP compatibility is supported.
>=20
> Note that my request was not about data plane compatibility.
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> On 11/25/2011 3:52 AM, BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) wrote:
>> Hi CCAMP,
>> =20
>> as outcome of the Framework and Information model for G.709 Optical
>> Transport Networks (OTN) presentation, Lou Berger asked co-authors to
>> provide a new section in the framework document dealing with backward
>> compatibility, as summary with respect to what is already present/will
>> be present in the  encoding documents.
>> =20
>> In our opinion, the first thing to do is deciding which are the
>> scenarios that have to be taken into account.
>> =20
>> As hypothesis we would like to consider network element domains=20
>> composed either of G.709v1 or G709v3 network elements,
>> so without having a mix of network element in the same domains. The
>> motivation for this is that operators
>> would not be happy with the mix because managing control plane versions
>> implementing very different features
>> is not practical from a network operation point of view.=20
>> =20
>> Please note that backward compatibility issues are to be considered
>> between GMPLS versions. So for G.709v1 NE we mean
>> a network element with G.709v1 HW and support of RFC4328 only.
>> =20
>> The case of a NE with G709v1 HW supporting our GMPLS drafts does not
>> have backward compatibility issues because it can be considered as a
>> new  node with limitations.
>> =20
>> Said this the candidate scenarios may be:
>> =20
>> 1)  Interworking between a G.709v1 domain with a G.709v3 domain (path is
>> terminated by one G.709v1 node and G.709v3  node)
>> =20
>> 2) Interworking in the case of  a G.709v1 domain - a G.709v3 domain -
>> G709v1 domain (G.709v3 domain in the middle of two G.709v1 domains. The
>> path being terminated on G.709v1 equipment.)
>> =20
>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG whether CCAMP consider
>> exhaustive the type of scenarios proposed, before proceeding with any
>> modification to the document.
>> =20
>> Thanks
>> =20
>> Sergio and co-authors
>> =20
>> =20
>> *SERGIO BELOTTI*
>> =20
>> ALCATEL-LUCENT
>> Terrestrial System Architect
>> Optics Portfolio Evolution
>> =20
>> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)  Italy
>> T: +39 0396863033
>> *Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com*
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From lberger@labn.net  Thu Dec  1 05:06:04 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] Draft IETF 82 Minutes Available
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All,

The draft minutes from Taipei are available at:

	http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/82/minutes/ccamp.htm

Please send any corrections to the list (or chairs) as soon as possible.

Much thanks to out minute takers: Dan King and Daniele Ceccarelli!

Lou and Deborah

From julien.meuric@orange.com  Thu Dec  1 06:02:04 2011
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>, 'JP Vasseur' <jpv@cisco.com>, "lear@cisco.com" <lear@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposed ITU-T Liaison on Flexible Grids
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Hi Deborah and Lou.

It is not mandatory at this stage, but you might add a sentence 
mentioning: "Relevant extensions of PCEP may also be looked at by the 
PCE WG."

It is up to you to decide if it deserves to be added here.

Cheers,

Julien


Le 29/11/2011 22:52, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A a écrit :
> CCAMP,
>
> As discussed during the meeting, we will send a liaison to ITU-T SG15 informing of our beginning work on Flexible Grids. Let us know if any comments. We will send it by end-of-the-week.
>
> Thanks,
> Deborah (and Lou)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To: Q6/15, Q12/15
> Subject: Communication to ITU-T Q6/15 and Q12/15 from IETF's CCAMP
> Working Group on Flexible Grids
> Purpose: For Information
>
> The CCAMP Working Group of IETF would like to inform you of our
> beginning work on enhancing GMPLS's support for Wavelength Switched
> Optical Network (WSON) equipment to support Flexible Grids. With the
> recent progress on optical network technology regarding Flexible Grids,
> CCAMP participants are interested in investigating these new
> applications to ensure the applicability of GMPLS protocols for
> connection setup and path computation.
>
> We would appreciate if you would keep us informed of your progress in
> this area. In CCAMP, this work is in a very early phase of development,
> as we progress our work, we will communicate progress in this area.
>
> Best regards,
> Lou Berger and Deborah Brungard
> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com  Thu Dec  1 13:46:14 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] Comments to draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-mpls-tp-oam-ext-07
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Dear Authors, Editors, et al.,
Please find my comments to the document below:
*       Introduction, first para s/at and points/at maintenance points/ and=
 s/runnineg/running/
*       Introduction, second para "Therefore there are three options for co=
nfiguring MPLS-TP OAM ... or with a control plane using GMPLS (specifically=
 RSVP-TE)". GMPLS can not be used to configure as it is a paradigm, model o=
f switching label. In fact, signaling protocols, RSVP-TE and T-LDP, can be =
used to configure MPLS-TP OAM. Perhaps the following wording can be used "T=
herefore there are three options for configuring MPLS-TP OAM ... or with a =
control plane using signaling protocols RSVP-TE and/or T-LDP. Use of T-LDP =
for configuration of MPLS-TP OAM is outside of scope of this document."
*       Introduction, 3rd para. Strictly speaking, CC/CV is extension of th=
e BFD as it specifies changes to RFC 5880 in regard to initialization and s=
tate machine for Independent mode (bi-directional associated LSP) and CV in=
 G-ACh encapsulation. I suggest changing reference to RFC 6428 Proactive Co=
nnectivity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for=
 the MPLS Transport Profile.
*       Section 3.1 If OAM functions are enabled via RSVP-TE  then default =
values associated with each OAM function must be specified in the document =
or referenced in other documents. In case there are no default values, then=
 use of sub-TLV should be mandatory.
*       Section 3.1.1 "Unidirectional mode" of BFD is not yet well defined.=
 It might be mentioned but OAM configuration for it is for further sturdy.
*       Section 3.1.1, 2nd and 3rd para overloaded with references to how L=
SP Ping used to bootstrap BFD session. I think that operation of LSP Ping i=
s outside of scope of this document.
*       Section 3.2 "Moreover, if the CV or CC flag is set, the CC flag MUS=
T be set at the same time" perhaps should be re-worded into "Moreover, if t=
he CV flag is set, then the CC flag MUST be set as well".
*       Section 3.2, p. 7, discusses Unique MEP-ID without reference to IET=
F or ITU conventions. If ITU-based IDs required, then ITU-T Carrier Code an=
d Country Code must be signaled by sub-TLV(s). If support of ITU's IDs is o=
ut-of-scope need to mention that explicitly.
*       Section 3.2, p.8, first para. In case of bi-directional associated =
LSP is composed of LSP numbers that are unique within Tunnel_ID. Is configu=
ration of MPLS OAM for bi-directional associated LSP in scope of the docume=
nt?
*       Section 3.3 Flags G, U, and B are not reflected in ASCII-art presen=
tation of the BFD Configuration sub-TLV
*       Section 3.3 "- the N flag is cleared and the S flag is set and a ti=
ming interval larger than the one received needs to be used" perhaps is mis=
sing "or" and clarification of what is the received timing interval being r=
eferenced.
*       Reserved field usually is set to 0 on transmit and ignored on recei=
ve.
*       Section 3.3.2 I think that there's disconnect between ASCII-art pre=
sentation of the Negotiation Timer Parameters sub-TLV and suggestion that i=
ts length is 20 bytes. ASCII-art presents TLV with length of 16 bytes.
*       Section 3.3.2 what suggestion procedure if remote LER considers Acc=
eptable Min. Asynchronous TX/RX values as too big? Should it send an Error?
*       Section 3.3.x - a missing section to configure Detect Multiplier va=
lue.
*       Section 3.4 What is proposed value of Perf Monitoring Type field? I=
t cannot be 1, as 1 is proposed as value of PM Loss Type.
*       Section 3.4 Interpretation of Length field is missing. I suggest to=
 add "Length: indicates the TLV total length in octets" to make it consiste=
nt with interpretation of the Length field in BFD configuration (sub-)TLVs.
*       Section 3.4.1 value of PM Loss Type in ASCII-art figure is 1 but Se=
ction 4 suggests IANA to allocate 3
*       Section 3.4.1 Length in MPLS OAM PM Loss sub-TLV reflects length of=
 parameters whereas Length in BFD configuration sub-TLVs indicates the leng=
th of the total TLV. I think that there must be consistency in interpretati=
on of Length in sub-TLVs used to configure MPLS OAM.
*       Section 3.4.2 value of PM Delay Type in figure is 2 while Section 4=
 suggests IANA to allocate 4
*       Section 3.4.2 What is encoding of OTF field to present 1558 type 1 =
format?
*       Section 3.4.2 What happens if any LSR along the path can not suppor=
t requested intervals?
*       Section 4 Do we need to request IANA allocation of Performance Moni=
toring Type?
*       Section 5 how Error Code OAM Problem/Unsupported CC Interval from [=
ETH-OAM] is related to OAM Problem/Unsupported TX rate interval?
*       Section 5 I think there should be "OAM Problem/Unsupported RX rate =
interval" Error Code
*       Section 5 How unsupported Authentication Type and/or mismatch of Au=
thentication Key ID reported in Error message?
*       General question. Is configuration of MIP, even per-node MIP, outsi=
de-of-scope?

Thank you for your kind consideration.

        Regards,
                Greg



--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF132295FFDD2EUSAACMS0715e_
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<div>Dear Authors, Editors, et al.,</div>
<div>Please find my comments to the document below:</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 36pt; ">
<li>Introduction, first para s/at and points/at maintenance points/ and s/r=
unnineg/running/</li><li>Introduction, second para &#8220;Therefore there a=
re three options for configuring MPLS-TP OAM &#8230; or with a control plan=
e using GMPLS (specifically RSVP-TE)&#8221;. GMPLS can not be used to confi=
gure as it is a paradigm, model of switching label. In fact, signaling
protocols, RSVP-TE and T-LDP, can be used to configure MPLS-TP OAM. Perhaps=
 the following wording can be used &#8220;Therefore there are three options=
 for configuring MPLS-TP OAM &#8230; or with a control plane using signalin=
g protocols RSVP-TE and/or T-LDP. Use of T-LDP
for configuration of MPLS-TP OAM is outside of scope of this document.&#822=
1;</li><li>Introduction, 3<font size=3D"1"><sup>rd</sup></font> para. Stric=
tly speaking, CC/CV is extension of the BFD as it specifies changes to RFC =
5880 in regard to initialization and state machine for Independent mode (bi=
-directional associated LSP) and CV in G-ACh
encapsulation. I suggest changing reference to RFC 6428 Proactive Connectiv=
ity Verification, Continuity Check, and Remote Defect Indication for the MP=
LS Transport Profile.</li><li>Section 3.1 If OAM functions are enabled via =
RSVP-TE&nbsp; then default values associated with each OAM function must be=
 specified in the document or referenced in other documents. In case there =
are no default values, then use of sub-TLV should be mandatory.</li><li>Sec=
tion 3.1.1 &#8220;Unidirectional mode&#8221; of BFD is not yet well defined=
. It might be mentioned but OAM configuration for it is for further sturdy.=
</li><li>Section 3.1.1, 2<font size=3D"1"><sup>nd</sup></font> and 3<font s=
ize=3D"1"><sup>rd</sup></font> para overloaded with references to how LSP P=
ing used to bootstrap BFD session. I think that operation of LSP Ping is ou=
tside of scope of this document.</li><li>Section 3.2 &#8220;Moreover, if th=
e CV or CC flag is set, the CC flag MUST be set at the same time&#8221; per=
haps should be re-worded into &#8220;Moreover, if the CV flag is set, then =
the CC flag MUST be set as well&#8221;.</li><li>Section 3.2, p. 7, discusse=
s Unique MEP-ID without reference to IETF or ITU conventions. If ITU-based =
IDs required, then ITU-T Carrier Code and Country Code must be signaled by =
sub-TLV(s). If support of ITU&#8217;s IDs is out-of-scope need to mention t=
hat explicitly.</li><li>Section 3.2, p.8, first para. In case of bi-directi=
onal associated LSP is composed of LSP numbers that are unique within Tunne=
l_ID. Is configuration of MPLS OAM for bi-directional associated LSP in sco=
pe of the document?</li><li>Section 3.3 Flags G, U, and B are not reflected=
 in ASCII-art presentation of the BFD Configuration sub-TLV</li><li>Section=
 3.3 &#8220;- the N flag is cleared and the S flag is set and a timing inte=
rval larger than the one received needs to be used&#8221; perhaps is missin=
g &#8220;or&#8221; and clarification of what is the received timing interva=
l being referenced.</li><li>Reserved field usually is set to 0 on transmit =
and ignored on receive.</li><li>Section 3.3.2 I think that there&#8217;s di=
sconnect between ASCII-art presentation of the Negotiation Timer Parameters=
 sub-TLV and suggestion that its length is 20 bytes. ASCII-art presents TLV=
 with length of 16 bytes.</li><li>Section 3.3.2 what suggestion procedure i=
f remote LER considers Acceptable Min. Asynchronous TX/RX values as too big=
? Should it send an Error?</li><li>Section 3.3.x &#8211; a missing section =
to configure Detect Multiplier value.</li><li>Section 3.4 What is proposed =
value of Perf Monitoring Type field? It cannot be 1, as 1 is proposed as va=
lue of PM Loss Type.</li><li>Section 3.4 Interpretation of Length field is =
missing. I suggest to add &#8220;Length: indicates the TLV total length in =
octets&#8221; to make it consistent with interpretation of the Length field=
 in BFD configuration (sub-)TLVs. </li><li>Section 3.4.1 value of PM Loss T=
ype in ASCII-art figure is 1 but Section 4 suggests IANA to allocate 3</li>=
<li>Section 3.4.1 Length in MPLS OAM PM Loss sub-TLV reflects length of par=
ameters whereas Length in BFD configuration sub-TLVs indicates the length o=
f the total TLV. I think that there must be consistency in interpretation o=
f Length in sub-TLVs used to configure
MPLS OAM.</li><li>Section 3.4.2 value of PM Delay Type in figure is 2 while=
 Section 4 suggests IANA to allocate 4</li><li>Section 3.4.2 What is encodi=
ng of OTF field to present 1558 type 1 format?</li><li>Section 3.4.2 What h=
appens if any LSR along the path can not support requested intervals?</li><=
li>Section 4 Do we need to request IANA allocation of Performance Monitorin=
g Type?</li><li>Section 5 how Error Code OAM Problem/Unsupported CC Interva=
l from [ETH-OAM] is related to OAM Problem/Unsupported TX rate interval?</l=
i><li>Section 5 I think there should be &#8220;OAM Problem/Unsupported RX r=
ate interval&#8221; Error Code</li><li>Section 5 How unsupported Authentica=
tion Type and/or mismatch of Authentication Key ID reported in Error messag=
e?</li><li>General question. Is configuration of MIP, even per-node MIP, ou=
tside-of-scope?</li></ul>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 18pt; ">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 18pt; ">Thank you for your kind consideration.<=
/div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 18pt; ">&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 18pt; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 18pt; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
</font>
</body>
</html>

--_000_FE60A4E52763E84B935532D7D9294FF132295FFDD2EUSAACMS0715e_--

From sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Dec  2 00:29:31 2011
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From: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 09:29:07 +0100
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Subject: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.

Thanks
Sergio and Pietro

SERGIO BELOTTI

ALCATEL-LUCENT
Terrestrial System Architect
Optics Portfolio Evolution

via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI)  Italy
T: +39 0396863033
Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com



-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Joh=
n E Drake
Inviato: mercoled=EC 30 novembre 2011 22.37
A: Lou Berger
Cc: CCAMP
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)

Comments inline.  I still think this is a terrible idea and I would like to=
 see what the rest of the WG thinks.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:09 PM
> To: John E Drake
> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>=20
>=20
> John,
>=20
> see below
>=20
>=20
> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> > Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
> > ill-considered at best, especially since this information is carried
> > in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly overloads to
> > intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>=20
> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values.  I'd think
> that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this clear and
> remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth.  It is also completely
> consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1 -> PSC-n.

[JD]  You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further asserti=
ng that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without providing any ev=
idence. =20

To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the PSC-1 -=
> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out what it meant.  T=
o quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a better understanding of =
the technologies involved than we had in the past.".  I.e., we should all u=
nderstand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.  =20

>=20
> > It also is inconsistent
> > with the usage of Switching Capability in SDH/SONET.
>=20
> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
> involved than we had in the past.

[JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and we have=
 a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the authors saw no=
 requirement to overload switching capability in the manner you are suggest=
ing.

>=20
> >
> > A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which seems
> > clear enough to me:
> >
> > "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected to a
> > node by an interface.  In the context of GMPLS interfaces may have
> > different switching capabilities.  For example an interface that
> > connects a given link to a node may not be able to switch individual
> > packets, but it may be able to switch channels within an SDH payload.
> > Interfaces at each end of a link need not have the same switching
> > capabilities.  Interfaces on the same node need not have the same
> > switching capabilities."
>=20
> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...

[JD]  I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to describe=
 how a given interface switches the information with which it is provided. =
 This has nothing to do with the interface's bandwidth.

>=20
> Lou
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:43 AM
> >> To: John E Drake
> >> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
> >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> 1/2)
> >>
> >> Great.  Care to substantiate your point?
> >>
> >> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>> I completely disagree.
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >>>> Of Lou Berger
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
> >>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli
> >>>> Cc: CCAMP
> >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> >> 1/2)
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Daniele,
> >>>> 	Since I raised the point, I guess I need to champion it!  (With
> >>>> chair
> >>>> hat off.)
> >>>>
> >>>> All,
> >>>>
> >>>> Daniele said:
> >>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most ODUk of
> >> the
> >>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the ISCD.
> >> After
> >>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was to
> >> reject
> >>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the meaning of
> >> the
> >>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of PSC1-2-3-4
> >>>>> already overloads the meaning of the switching capability field)
> >>>>
> >>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of Switching
> >>>> Capability Types.  So we have a few definitions: 3471 says "the
> type
> >> of
> >>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says  "describes
> switching
> >>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the term
> (it
> >>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer". While it
> >>>> allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says hierarchy
> occurs
> >>>> "between interface types".
> >>>>
> >>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
> different
> >>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of hierarchy
> --
> >>>> even within a layer.  I think (a) is identifiable in the
> definition
> >> of
> >>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC, TDM
> LSC,
> >>>> and
> >>>> FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types plus the
> >> definition
> >>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
> >>>>
> >>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
> >>>>
> >>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is should
> each
> >>>> ODUk
> >>>> be modeled as a separate layer?
> >>>>
> >>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to me that
> >> they
> >>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
> >> technology
> >>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
> different
> >>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is does
> each
> >>>> ODUk
> >>>> represent a different level of hierarchy?
> >>>>
> >>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has been done
> >> more
> >>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model OTN as
> a
> >>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
> >>>>
> >>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this approach
> >> for
> >>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are advertised
> within
> >> an
> >>>> IGP.
> >>>>
> >>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use different
> >>>> Switching Types.  In particular, I'm proposing:
> >>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify that
> >>>>     a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to support
> >>>>     G.709v3.
> >>>> (2) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
> >>>>     Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
> >>>>     that the value corresponding to the signal type identified in
> >>>>     the #stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set.  (Without any other changes
> >>>>     to the current definition of ISCD.)
> >>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to
> >>>>     match above.
> >>>>
> >>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1 through TDM-n
> >> as
> >>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a secondary
> >> discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments?
> >>>>
> >>>> Lou
> >>>>
> >>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
> significantly
> >>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the actual
> change,
> >> so
> >>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we really
> need
> >> a
> >>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >>>>> Hi CCAMP,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF meeting in
> >> Taipei
> >>>> two
> >>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following issues:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU type
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable containers) and
> >> Type
> >>>> 3
> >>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in tandem?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most ODUk of
> >> the
> >>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the ISCD.
> >> After
> >>>> a
> >>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was to
> reject
> >>>> the
> >>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the meaning of the
> >>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of PSC1-2-3-4
> >>>>> already overloads the meaning of the switching capability field)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft (version
> -
> >>>> 00).
> >>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
> hierarchy
> >> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    shown.  In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP bandwidth
> >>>> needs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    to be advertised but in some cases also information about the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Unreserved bandwidth could be useful.  The amount of
> Unreserved
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many ODUflex
> >> LSP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at different
> >>>> rates,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    as it gives no information about the spatial allocation of the
> >>>> free
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    TSs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could be
> >>>> useful
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    during the path computation process, as shown in the following
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    example.  Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with MAX
> >> LSP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each.  In case 50Gbps of Unreserved
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and 3
> >> ODUflex
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only one
> can
> >>>> be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure) that
> two
> >>>> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    them can be restored along Link A.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable containers
> >>>>> advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
> >> as
> >>>> a
> >>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved bandiwdth TLV
> >> (Type
> >>>> 2)
> >>>>> as an optional piece of information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The comment received is that optional information can lead to
> >>>>> interworking issues and the counter proposal was to have both
> >> pieces
> >>>> of
> >>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the two
> TLVs
> >>>> into
> >>>>> a single one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues before
> >>>> proceeding
> >>>>> with any modification to the document.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Daniele
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI *
> >>>>> *System & Technology - DU IP & Broadband*
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Via L.Calda, 5
> >>>>> Genova, Italy
> >>>>> Phone +390106002512
> >>>>> Mobile +393346725750
> >>>>> daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> >>>>> www.ericsson.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and receive
> email
> >> on
> >>>>> the basis of the term set out at
> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
> >>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CCAMP mailing list
> >>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 08:51:46 +0000
From: Zhangfatai <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
To: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Proposed ITU-T Liaison on Flexible Grids
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposed ITU-T Liaison on Flexible Grids
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Hi Julien,

Thanks for the suggestion, this was only intended as informative, in case t=
he cross-SDO informal channels are active. When we have a more formal work =
item (working group documents), we'll be sending another liaison with detai=
ls.

Cheers,
Deborah

-----Original Message-----
From: Julien Meuric [mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 9:01 AM
To: BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; lear@cisco.com; 'JP Vasseur'
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposed ITU-T Liaison on Flexible Grids

Hi Deborah and Lou.

It is not mandatory at this stage, but you might add a sentence=20
mentioning: "Relevant extensions of PCEP may also be looked at by the=20
PCE WG."

It is up to you to decide if it deserves to be added here.

Cheers,

Julien


Le 29/11/2011 22:52, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A a =E9crit :
> CCAMP,
>
> As discussed during the meeting, we will send a liaison to ITU-T SG15 inf=
orming of our beginning work on Flexible Grids. Let us know if any comments=
. We will send it by end-of-the-week.
>
> Thanks,
> Deborah (and Lou)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
> To: Q6/15, Q12/15
> Subject: Communication to ITU-T Q6/15 and Q12/15 from IETF's CCAMP
> Working Group on Flexible Grids
> Purpose: For Information
>
> The CCAMP Working Group of IETF would like to inform you of our
> beginning work on enhancing GMPLS's support for Wavelength Switched
> Optical Network (WSON) equipment to support Flexible Grids. With the
> recent progress on optical network technology regarding Flexible Grids,
> CCAMP participants are interested in investigating these new
> applications to ensure the applicability of GMPLS protocols for
> connection setup and path computation.
>
> We would appreciate if you would keep us informed of your progress in
> this area. In CCAMP, this work is in a very early phase of development,
> as we progress our work, we will communicate progress in this area.
>
> Best regards,
> Lou Berger and Deborah Brungard
> IETF CCAMP Working Group Co-Chairs
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

From Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com  Mon Dec  5 02:31:11 2011
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From: Attila Takacs <Attila.Takacs@ericsson.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "donald.fedyk@alcatel-lucent.com" <donald.fedyk@alcatel-lucent.com>, "hejia@huawei.com" <hejia@huawei.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 11:31:04 +0100
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Hi Greg,
Please see inline.
Thanks for your comments!
Attila

_____________________________________________
From:   Gregory Mirsky
Sent:   Thursday, December 01, 2011 2:17 AM
To:     Attila Takacs; donald.fedyk@alcatel-lucent.com; hejia@huawei.com; c=
camp@ietf.org
Subject:        Comments to draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk

Dear Authors, et al.,
Please find my comments to the document below. Your kind consideration is a=
ppreciated.

*        General comment - combining OAM for SONET/SDH, Ethernet, and MPLS(=
-TP) creates terminology problem. Perhaps a section can be added to map ITU=
, IEEE, and IETF terms and set some common understanding for Maintenance-Fo=
o terms.

This is correct, we tried to come up with a general "understandable" termin=
ology influenced by the discussions around the TP OAM terminology, because =
we wanted to avoid a lengthily terminology overview. We will have a look to=
 this specific question again and try to make it clearer, I would refer for=
 ITU/IEEE/IETF terminology map to the technology specific documents.

*        Section 3 "MEPs reside at the ends of an LSP ..." It is not the ca=
se for SONET/SDH and Ethernet. AFAIK, it is only the case for MPLS-TP. Perh=
aps the following wording would be accurate without going into too much spe=
cifics: "MEPs define scope of actively managed and monitored element of mai=
ntenance ..."

Ok, will change.

*        Section 3 "Maintenance Entity (ME) refers to an association of MEP=
s and MIPs that are provisioned to monitor an LSP." Association MEPs and MI=
Ps are not always referred as ME. In CFM MPs on the same ME Level referred =
as Maintenance Association. Maintenance Entity, in CFM, is p2p relationship=
 between MA. Even more, CFM MPs configured on all MD levels represent Maint=
enance Domain.

Yes, this relates to the terminology question above. Will consider.

*       Section 3.1 "When the Path message arrives at the receiver, the rem=
ote end MUST establish and configure OAM entities according to the OAM info=
rmation provided in the Path message". I'm concerned that "the remote end" =
implies far end LER and thus process excludes configuration of MIPs, enclos=
ed MD Levels and MEPs and MIPS per MD Level. I'd suggest to remove "the rem=
ote end" replacing it with less specific "it" "When the Path message arrive=
s at the receiver, it MUST ..."

Ok, will change.

*       Section 4.1, fourth para "This bit (OAM MIP entities desired) can o=
nly be set if the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit is set in." I believe that=
 this is too restrictive as a MIP might be added on after an LSP and MEPs b=
een configured.

To adding MIPs after LSP configuration, one would set the "OAM MIP entities=
 desired" bit along with keeping the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit set.

Regards,

Greg


--_000_6477E10CC7D76444A479B9AC31F262A92694D49392ESESSCMS0365e_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server">
<!-- converted from rtf -->
<style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left:=
 #800000 2px solid; } --></style>
</head>
<body>
<font face=3D"Arial, sans-serif" size=3D"2">
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Hi Greg,</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Please see inline.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Thanks for your comments!</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Attila</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Tahoma, sans-serif" size=3D"1">_________________________=
____________________ </font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 72pt; text-indent: -72pt; "><font face=3D"Tahom=
a, sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>From:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </b>Gregory Mirsky&nbs=
p; </font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 72pt; text-indent: -72pt; "><font face=3D"Tahom=
a, sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp; </b>Thursday, December 01, 2=
011 2:17 AM</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 72pt; text-indent: -72pt; "><font face=3D"Tahom=
a, sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </b>Attila Takacs;=
 donald.fedyk@alcatel-lucent.com; hejia@huawei.com; ccamp@ietf.org</font></=
div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 72pt; text-indent: -72pt; "><font face=3D"Tahom=
a, sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; </b>Comments to draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk</font></div>
<div style=3D"padding-left: 72pt; text-indent: -72pt; "><font face=3D"Tahom=
a, sans-serif" size=3D"1">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div>Dear Authors, et al.,</div>
<div>Please find my comments to the document below. Your kind consideration=
 is appreciated.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li> General comment - combining OAM for SONET/SDH, Ethernet, and MPLS(-TP)=
 creates terminology problem. Perhaps a section can be added to map ITU, IE=
EE, and IETF terms and set some common understanding for Maintenance-Foo te=
rms.</li></ul>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">This is correct, we tried to come up with a ge=
neral &quot;understandable&quot; terminology influenced by the discussions =
around the TP OAM terminology, because we wanted to avoid a lengthily termi=
nology overview. We will have a look to this
specific question again and try to make it clearer, I would refer for ITU/I=
EEE/IETF terminology map to the technology specific documents. </font></div=
>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li> Section 3 &quot;MEPs reside at the ends of an LSP ...&quot; It is not =
the case for SONET/SDH and Ethernet. AFAIK, it is only the case for MPLS-TP=
. Perhaps the following wording would be accurate without going into too mu=
ch specifics: &quot;MEPs define scope of actively
managed and monitored element of maintenance ...&quot;</li></ul>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Ok, will change.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li> Section 3 &quot;Maintenance Entity (ME) refers to an association of ME=
Ps and MIPs that are provisioned to monitor an LSP.&quot; Association MEPs =
and MIPs are not always referred as ME. In CFM MPs on the same ME Level ref=
erred as Maintenance Association. Maintenance
Entity, in CFM, is p2p relationship between MA. Even more, CFM MPs configur=
ed on all MD levels represent Maintenance Domain.</li></ul>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Yes, this relates to the terminology question =
above. Will consider.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li>Section 3.1 &quot;When the Path message arrives at the receiver, the re=
mote end MUST establish and configure OAM entities according to the OAM inf=
ormation provided in the Path message&quot;. I'm concerned that &quot;the r=
emote end&quot; implies far end LER and thus process
excludes configuration of MIPs, enclosed MD Levels and MEPs and MIPS per MD=
 Level. I'd suggest to remove &quot;the remote end&quot; replacing it with =
less specific &quot;it&quot; &quot;When the Path message arrives at the rec=
eiver, it MUST ...&quot;</li></ul>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">Ok, will change.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<ul style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 19pt; ">
<li>Section 4.1, fourth para &quot;This bit (OAM MIP entities desired) can =
only be set if the &quot;OAM MEP entities desired&quot; bit is set in.&quot=
; I believe that this is too restrictive as a MIP might be added on after a=
n LSP and MEPs been configured.</li></ul>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#0000FF">To adding MIPs after LSP configuration, one wo=
uld set the &quot;OAM MIP entities desired&quot; bit along with keeping the=
 &quot;OAM MEP entities desired&quot; bit set. </font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Greg</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</font>
</body>
</html>

--_000_6477E10CC7D76444A479B9AC31F262A92694D49392ESESSCMS0365e_--

From julien.meuric@orange.com  Tue Dec  6 07:31:39 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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Hi John, hi Lou.

On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting to 
prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS 
deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order 
containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that 
context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions 
from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.

On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been 
implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that 
upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth the 
pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of 
IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever the 
actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of the 
original GMPLS specification.

Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels of 
PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really 
looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the 
technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but 
doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.

Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is TDM, 
the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum LSP 
Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so 
far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload 
the ISCD definition.

Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF work is 
to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when 
they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not 
building G.709 control from scratch).

My 2 cents,

Julien


Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a écrit :
>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>
> > -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> > [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
> >
> > John,
> >
> > see below
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
> >> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
> >> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
> >> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
> >
> > I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
> > layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
> > think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
> > clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
> > completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
> > -> PSC-n.
>
>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>  providing any evidence.
>
>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the
>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out what
>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a better
>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the past.".
>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>  (tm) and move on.
>
> >
> >> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability in
> >> SDH/SONET.
> >
> > Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
> > involved than we had in the past.
>
>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and
>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the
>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in the
>  manner you are suggesting.
>
> >
> >>
> >> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
> >> seems clear enough to me:
> >>
> >> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
> >> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
> >> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
> >> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able to
> >> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
> >> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
> >> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
> >> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
> >
> > Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>
>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>  describe how a given interface switches the information with which it
>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's bandwidth.
>
> >
> > Lou
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> >>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> >>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
> >>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> > 1/2)
> >>>
> >>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
> >>>
> >>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>>> I completely disagree.
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
> >>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
> >>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> >>> 1/2)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
> >>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Daniele said:
> >>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
> >>>>>> ODUk of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
> >>>>>> ISCD.
> >>> After
> >>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
> >>>>>> was to
> >>> reject
> >>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>> meaning of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
> >>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
> >>>>>> capability field)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
> >>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
> >>>>> 3471 says "the
> > type
> >>> of
> >>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
> > switching
> >>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
> >>>>> term
> > (it
> >>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
> >>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
> >>>>> hierarchy
> > occurs
> >>>>> "between interface types".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
> > different
> >>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
> >>>>> hierarchy
> > --
> >>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
> > definition
> >>> of
> >>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
> >>>>> TDM
> > LSC,
> >>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
> >>>>> plus the
> >>> definition
> >>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
> >>>>> should
> > each
> >>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
> >>>>> me that
> >>> they
> >>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
> >>> technology
> >>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
> > different
> >>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
> >>>>> does
> > each
> >>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
> >>>>> been done
> >>> more
> >>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
> >>>>> OTN as
> > a
> >>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
> >>>>> approach
> >>> for
> >>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
> >>>>> advertised
> > within
> >>> an
> >>>>> IGP.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
> >>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
> >>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
> >>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
> >>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
> >>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
> >>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
> >>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
> >>>>> in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
> >>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
> >>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
> >>>>> above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
> >>>>> through TDM-n
> >>> as
> >>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
> >>>>> secondary
> >>> discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Comments?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
> > significantly
> >>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
> >>>>> actual
> > change,
> >>> so
> >>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
> >>>>> really
> > need
> >>> a
> >>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
> >>>>>> meeting in
> >>> Taipei
> >>>>> two
> >>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
> >>>>>> issues:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
> >>>>>> type
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
> >>>>>> containers) and
> >>> Type
> >>>>> 3
> >>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
> >>>>>> tandem?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
> >>>>>> ODUk of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
> >>>>>> ISCD.
> >>> After
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
> >>>>>> to
> > reject
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
> >>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
> >>>>>> the switching capability field)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
> >>>>>> (version
> > -
> >>>>> 00).
> >>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
> > hierarchy
> >>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
> >>>>>> bandwidth
> >>>>> needs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
> > Unreserved
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
> >>>>>> ODUflex
> >>> LSP
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
> >>>>>> different
> >>>>> rates,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
> >>>>>> of the
> >>>>> free
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> TSs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>> useful
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
> >>>>>> following
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
> >>>>>> MAX
> >>> LSP
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
> >>>>>> Unreserved
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
> >>>>>> 3
> >>> ODUflex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
> >>>>>> one
> > can
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
> >>>>>> that
> > two
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
> >>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
> >>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
> >>> as
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
> >>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
> >>> (Type
> >>>>> 2)
> >>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
> >>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
> >>>>>> to have both
> >>> pieces
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
> >>>>>> two
> > TLVs
> >>>>> into
> >>>>>> a single one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
> >>>>>> before
> >>>>> proceeding
> >>>>>> with any modification to the document.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Daniele
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
> >>>>>> Broadband*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
> >>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> >>>>>> www.ericsson.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
> >>>>>> receive
> > email
> >>> on
> >>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
> > www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
> >>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
> >>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
> >>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


From julien.meuric@orange.com  Tue Dec  6 08:09:04 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] R:  OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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Hi Fatai.

As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will agree 
on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer would make 
the use of objects including a Switching Cap field rather 
straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description, e.g. in:
- REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of adaptation 
requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback on the missing 
adaptation for unsuccessful path computations;
- SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of server 
layer within the ERO.

Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap value 
would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest so as to 
achieve the same level of details in that scenario?

Regards,

Julien


Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a Ã©crit :
>  Hi all,
>
>  I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Thanks
>
>  Fatai
>
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>  [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
>  (SERGIO)
>
>  John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
>
>  Thanks Sergio and Pietro
>
>  SERGIO BELOTTI
>
>  ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
>  Evolution
>
>  via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
>  Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>
>
>
>  -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>  [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inviato:
>  mercoledÃ¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:
>  Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>
>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>
> > -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> > [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:09
> > PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject: Re:
> > [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> >
> >
> > John,
> >
> > see below
> >
> >
> > On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
> >> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
> >> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
> >> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
> >
> > I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
> > layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
> > think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
> > clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
> > completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
> > -> PSC-n.
>
>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>  providing any evidence.
>
>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the
>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out
>  what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a
>  better understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the
>  past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad
>  idea (tm) and move on.
>
> >
> >> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
> >> in SDH/SONET.
> >
> > Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
> > involved than we had in the past.
>
>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and
>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the
>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in the
>  manner you are suggesting.
>
> >
> >>
> >> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which seems
> >> clear enough to me:
> >>
> >> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
> >> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
> >> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
> >> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able
> >> to switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch
> >> channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link
> >> need not have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the
> >> same node need not have the same switching capabilities."
> >
> > Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>
>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>  describe how a given interface switches the information with which
>  it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>  bandwidth.
>
> >
> > Lou
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> >>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> >>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
> >>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> >>> (Issue
> > 1/2)
> >>>
> >>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
> >>>
> >>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>>> I completely disagree.
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>> Behalf
> >>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
> >>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
> >>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> >>> 1/2)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
> >>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Daniele said:
> >>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> >>>>>> most ODUk of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> >>>>>> the ISCD.
> >>> After
> >>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
> >>>>>> was to
> >>> reject
> >>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>> meaning of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
> >>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
> >>>>>> switching capability field)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
> >>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
> >>>>> 3471 says "the
> > type
> >>> of
> >>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
> > switching
> >>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
> >>>>> the term
> > (it
> >>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
> >>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also
> >>>>> says hierarchy
> > occurs
> >>>>> "between interface types".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
> > different
> >>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
> >>>>> hierarchy
> > --
> >>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
> > definition
> >>> of
> >>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
> >>>>> L2SC, TDM
> > LSC,
> >>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
> >>>>> plus the
> >>> definition
> >>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
> >>>>> should
> > each
> >>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
> >>>>> me that
> >>> they
> >>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
> >>> technology
> >>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
> > different
> >>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
> >>>>> does
> > each
> >>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
> >>>>> been done
> >>> more
> >>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
> >>>>> OTN as
> > a
> >>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
> >>>>> approach
> >>> for
> >>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
> >>>>> advertised
> > within
> >>> an
> >>>>> IGP.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
> >>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
> >>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
> >>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
> >>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
> >>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
> >>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
> >>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type
> >>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
> >>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3)
> >>>>> that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to
> >>>>> match above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
> >>>>> through TDM-n
> >>> as
> >>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
> >>>>> secondary
> >>> discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Comments?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lou
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
> > significantly
> >>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
> >>>>> actual
> > change,
> >>> so
> >>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
> >>>>> really
> > need
> >>> a
> >>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
> >>>>>> meeting in
> >>> Taipei
> >>>>> two
> >>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
> >>>>>> issues:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
> >>>>>> type
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
> >>>>>> containers) and
> >>> Type
> >>>>> 3
> >>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
> >>>>>> in tandem?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> >>>>>> most ODUk of
> >>> the
> >>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> >>>>>> the ISCD.
> >>> After
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
> >>>>>> was to
> > reject
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
> >>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning
> >>>>>> of the switching capability field)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
> >>>>>> (version
> > -
> >>>>> 00).
> >>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
> > hierarchy
> >>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
> >>>>>> bandwidth
> >>>>> needs
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
> >>>>>> about the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
> > Unreserved
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
> >>>>>> ODUflex
> >>> LSP
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
> >>>>>> different
> >>>>> rates,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
> >>>>>> of the
> >>>>> free
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> TSs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
> >>>>>> could be
> >>>>> useful
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
> >>>>>> following
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
> >>>>>> with MAX
> >>> LSP
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
> >>>>>> Unreserved
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
> >>>>>> 3
> >>> ODUflex
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
> >>>>>> one
> > can
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
> >>>>>> that
> > two
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
> >>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
> >>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
> >>> as
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
> >>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
> >>> (Type
> >>>>> 2)
> >>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
> >>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
> >>>>>> to have both
> >>> pieces
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
> >>>>>> the two
> > TLVs
> >>>>> into
> >>>>>> a single one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
> >>>>>> before
> >>>>> proceeding
> >>>>>> with any modification to the document.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Daniele
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
> >>>>>> Broadband*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
> >>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> >>>>>> www.ericsson.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
> >>>>>> receive
> > email
> >>> on
> >>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
> > www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
> >>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>
>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:21:12 +0000
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I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator of
hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to move into a
technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what you're saying ST
provides.

The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms, really runs
counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete 6001, or do a
bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific layer
identifier?)

Lou

On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
> Hi Julien,
> 
> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
> 
> Anything is missed in routing or signaling? 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Fatai
> 
> 
> _______________________________________
> ·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Julien Meuric [julien.meuric@orange.com]
> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ6ÈÕ 23:31
> µ½: John E Drake; Lou Berger
> Cc: CCAMP
> Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> 
> Hi John, hi Lou.
> 
> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting to
> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS
> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions
> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.
> 
> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth the
> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of
> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever the
> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of the
> original GMPLS specification.
> 
> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels of
> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really
> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the
> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but
> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
> 
> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is TDM,
> the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum LSP
> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so
> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload
> the ISCD definition.
> 
> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF work is
> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when
> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
> building G.709 control from scratch).
> 
> My 2 cents,
> 
> Julien
> 
> 
> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a ¨¦crit :
>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> see below
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>
>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>> -> PSC-n.
>>
>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>  providing any evidence.
>>
>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the
>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out what
>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a better
>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the past.".
>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>  (tm) and move on.
>>
>>>
>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability in
>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>
>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>
>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and
>>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the
>>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in the
>>  manner you are suggesting.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>
>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
>>>> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
>>>> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able to
>>>> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
>>>> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
>>>> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>>>> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>
>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>
>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>  describe how a given interface switches the information with which it
>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's bandwidth.
>>
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>> 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
>>>>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>> After
>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>> type
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>> switching
>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>> term
>>> (it
>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>> occurs
>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>> different
>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>> --
>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>> definition
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>> TDM
>>> LSC,
>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>> definition
>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>> should
>>> each
>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
>>>>>>> me that
>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>> technology
>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>> different
>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
>>>>>>> does
>>> each
>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>> been done
>>>>> more
>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
>>>>>>> OTN as
>>> a
>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>> approach
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>> advertised
>>> within
>>>>> an
>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
>>>>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
>>>>>>> in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
>>>>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>> significantly
>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>> actual
>>> change,
>>>>> so
>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>> really
>>> need
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>> Type
>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>> After
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>> to
>>> reject
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>> (version
>>> -
>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>> hierarchy
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>> one
>>> can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>> that
>>> two
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>> two
>>> TLVs
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>> receive
>>> email
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Hi Lou, Julien,

For clarification, you're specifically concerned with the hierarchical =
use of OTN signals, right?  Because these are not always used in a =
hierarchy, an OTN link can carry LSPs with different ODU rates at the =
same level of hierarchy - for example an OTU3 link could be carrying =
ODU0, ODU1 and ODU2 connections at the same time and at the same =
hierarchical level.  In that case you would use Signal Type to =
characterize the LSP being signaled, as has been done before.

Thanks,

Lyndon



-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Lou Berger
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:29 PM
To: Zhangfatai
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: OSPF OTN considerations post =
IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)


I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator of
hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to move into a
technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what you're saying ST
provides.

The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms, really runs
counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete 6001, or do a
bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific layer
identifier?)

Lou

On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
> Hi Julien,
>
> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or =
RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
>
> Anything is missed in routing or signaling?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Fatai
>
>
> _______________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org =
[ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Julien Meuric =
[julien.meuric@orange.com]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: =
2011=E5=B9=B412=E6=9C=886=E6=97=A5 23:31
> =E5=88=B0: John E Drake; Lou Berger
> Cc: CCAMP
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 =
(Issue 1/2)
>
> Hi John, hi Lou.
>
> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting to
> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS
> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions
> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.
>
> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth the
> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of
> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever the
> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of the
> original GMPLS specification.
>
> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels of
> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really
> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the
> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but
> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>
> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is =
TDM,
> the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum =
LSP
> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so
> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload
> the ISCD definition.
>
> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF work =
is
> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when
> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
> building G.709 control from scratch).
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> Julien
>
>
> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a =C3=A9crit :
>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> see below
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>
>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>> -> PSC-n.
>>
>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>  providing any evidence.
>>
>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the
>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out =
what
>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a better
>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the =
past.".
>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>  (tm) and move on.
>>
>>>
>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability in
>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>
>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>
>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and
>>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the
>>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in the
>>  manner you are suggesting.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>
>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
>>>> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
>>>> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able to
>>>> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
>>>> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
>>>> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>>>> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>
>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>
>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>  describe how a given interface switches the information with which =
it
>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's bandwidth.
>>
>>>
>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>> 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
>>>>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>> After
>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>> type
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>> switching
>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>> term
>>> (it
>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>> occurs
>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>> different
>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>> --
>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>> definition
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>> TDM
>>> LSC,
>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>> definition
>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>> should
>>> each
>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
>>>>>>> me that
>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>> technology
>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>> different
>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
>>>>>>> does
>>> each
>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>> been done
>>>>> more
>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
>>>>>>> OTN as
>>> a
>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>> approach
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>> advertised
>>> within
>>>>> an
>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
>>>>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
>>>>>>> in the #stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
>>>>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>> significantly
>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>> actual
>>> change,
>>>>> so
>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>> really
>>> need
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>> Type
>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>> After
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>> to
>>> reject
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>> (version
>>> -
>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>> hierarchy
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>> one
>>> can
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>> that
>>> two
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>> two
>>> TLVs
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>> receive
>>> email
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>
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From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Dec  7 05:24:29 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Zhangfatai <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 05:21:08 -0800
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John,
	As I'm sure you are aware, hierarchy within the same technology layer
has been around for a while.  When we defined GMPLS, there was a desire
to represent level of hierarchy within a switching technology.  (This
requirement came in the context of PSC).  At the time we choose to
represent both switching switching technology and level of hierarchy
(within the technology) in the SC field.

On one hand one can argue (as was our thinking at the time) that there
was only a need to represent a few per-technology hierarchies and that
it simplified GMPLS routing to operate on a minimum number of generic
fields.   On the other hand, one could argue that the SC field should
not be overloaded and there should be a separate per-technology
hierarchy indicator field.  Hindsight leaves me feeling that the latter
choice may have been the better one.  I don't recall exactly how we came
to this conclusion, but there were lots or related discussions among the
authors/editors (which includes you too!).  My bet is that it came from
Yakov, myself or Peter... Perhaps your memory is better than mine, but
either way please feel free to blame me ;-)

No matter what, you now raise a good question.  Where do we go from here?
a. Keep SC as it is, with it's overloaded semantics as both a
   common (across technologies) label/ISCD type indicator and
   intra-type hierarchy indicator.
b. Deprecate use of SC as an intra-type hierarchy indicator, and
   add such indication to technology-specific ISCDs.
c. Something else.

I (and I believe Julien) are proposing (a), I believe you and the OTN
co-authors are proposing/implying (b).

Lou

On 12/7/2011 8:21 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am unaware of any requirement to indicate layers in a multi-layer
> scenario - I went back and looked at both RFC5339 and RFC6001 and
> didn't see anything.  And just to be clear, layers are technology
> specific.
> 
> Since you mention RFC6001, I think it should be pointed out that that
> RFC does not address multi-layer networking, but only multi-region
> networking.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:29 PM
>> To: Zhangfatai
>> Cc: Julien Meuric; John E Drake; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>> 1/2)
>>
>>
>> I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
>> question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator of
>> hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to move into a
>> technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what you're saying ST
>> provides.
>>
>> The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms, really runs
>> counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
>> nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete 6001, or do a
>> bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific layer
>> identifier?)
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
>>> Hi Julien,
>>>
>>> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or
>> RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
>>>
>>> Anything is missed in routing or signaling?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________
>>> ·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Julien
>> Meuric [julien.meuric@orange.com]
>>> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ6ÈÕ 23:31
>>> µ½: John E Drake; Lou Berger
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>> Hi John, hi Lou.
>>>
>>> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting
>> to
>>> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS
>>> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
>>> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
>>> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions
>>> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
>>> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
>>> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth
>> the
>>> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of
>>> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever
>> the
>>> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of
>> the
>>> original GMPLS specification.
>>>
>>> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels
>> of
>>> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really
>>> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the
>>> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but
>>> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
>> TDM,
>>> the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum
>> LSP
>>> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so
>>> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload
>>> the ISCD definition.
>>>
>>> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF work
>> is
>>> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when
>>> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
>>> building G.709 control from scratch).
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>>
>>> Julien
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a ¨¦crit :
>>>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>>>>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> see below
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>>>> -> PSC-n.
>>>>
>>>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>>>>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>>>  providing any evidence.
>>>>
>>>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed the
>>>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out
>> what
>>>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a
>> better
>>>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the
>> past.".
>>>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>>>  (tm) and move on.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability in
>>>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
>>>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>>>
>>>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then and
>>>>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases the
>>>>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in the
>>>>  manner you are suggesting.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
>>>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
>>>>>> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
>>>>>> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able to
>>>>>> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
>>>>>> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
>>>>>> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>>>>>> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>>
>>>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>>>  describe how a given interface switches the information with which
>> it
>>>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
>>>>>>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>>>> type
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>>>> switching
>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>>>> term
>>>>> (it
>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>> definition
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>>>> TDM
>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
>>>>>>>>> me that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
>>>>>>>>> OTN as
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>> within
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
>>>>>>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
>>>>>>>>> in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
>>>>>>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>> change,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>> need
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>>>> (version
>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>> email
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
>>>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Mon Dec 12 02:30:51 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:30:46 +0100
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To: "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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John,
	You're redefining 'a' (i.e., dropping "intra-type hierarchy
indicator").  We've already agreed that your position is that this
capability (and PSC 2-N) should be deprecated, i.e., 'b'.

I think this is a good to general discussion to have/continue, but IMO,
it goes beyond just OTN.

BTW We had lost of discussion on use of SC in the context of the
relatively recent ethernet/PBB RFCs.  At the time, there was general
agreement to use different SC values to identify hierarchy level  Given
that different label formats were involved as well, this
point/discussion may been obscured.

Lou


On 12/9/2011 5:04 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> I think I would argue with your characterization of a.  Other than
> PSC 1-4, which as I have previously stated was an abject failure,
> switching capability was never used to indicate layers within the
> same switching technology.  So, I would argue that what we are doing
> in OTN is really a.  I.e., keep switching capability as it is, an
> indicator of the switching technology.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 7:16 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>> 1/2)
>>
>> John,
>>       As I'm sure you are aware, hierarchy within the same technology
>> layer
>> has been around for a while.  When we defined GMPLS, there was a desire
>> to represent level of hierarchy within a switching technology.  (This
>> requirement came in the context of PSC).  At the time we choose to
>> represent both switching switching technology and level of hierarchy
>> (within the technology) in the SC field.
>>
>> On one hand one can argue (as was our thinking at the time) that there
>> was only a need to represent a few per-technology hierarchies and that
>> it simplified GMPLS routing to operate on a minimum number of generic
>> fields.   On the other hand, one could argue that the SC field should
>> not be overloaded and there should be a separate per-technology
>> hierarchy indicator field.  Hindsight leaves me feeling that the latter
>> choice may have been the better one.  I don't recall exactly how we
>> came
>> to this conclusion, but there were lots or related discussions among
>> the
>> authors/editors (which includes you too!).  My bet is that it came from
>> Yakov, myself or Peter... Perhaps your memory is better than mine, but
>> either way please feel free to blame me ;-)
>>
>> No matter what, you now raise a good question.  Where do we go from
>> here?
>> a. Keep SC as it is, with it's overloaded semantics as both a
>>    common (across technologies) label/ISCD type indicator and
>>    intra-type hierarchy indicator.
>> b. Deprecate use of SC as an intra-type hierarchy indicator, and
>>    add such indication to technology-specific ISCDs.
>> c. Something else.
>>
>> I (and I believe Julien) are proposing (a), I believe you and the OTN
>> co-authors are proposing/implying (b).
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/7/2011 8:21 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am unaware of any requirement to indicate layers in a multi-layer
>>> scenario - I went back and looked at both RFC5339 and RFC6001 and
>>> didn't see anything.  And just to be clear, layers are technology
>>> specific.
>>>
>>> Since you mention RFC6001, I think it should be pointed out that that
>>> RFC does not address multi-layer networking, but only multi-region
>>> networking.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:29 PM
>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>> Cc: Julien Meuric; John E Drake; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue
>>>> 1/2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
>>>> question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator
>> of
>>>> hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to move into a
>>>> technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what you're saying
>> ST
>>>> provides.
>>>>
>>>> The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms, really runs
>>>> counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
>>>> nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete 6001, or do
>> a
>>>> bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific
>> layer
>>>> identifier?)
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
>>>>> Hi Julien,
>>>>>
>>>>> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or
>>>> RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything is missed in routing or signaling?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________
>>>>> ·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Julien
>>>> Meuric [julien.meuric@orange.com]
>>>>> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ6ÈÕ 23:31
>>>>> µ½: John E Drake; Lou Berger
>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>> Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John, hi Lou.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting
>>>> to
>>>>> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the
>> GMPLS
>>>>> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
>>>>> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
>>>>> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol
>> extensions
>>>>> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage
>> control.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
>>>>> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
>>>>> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth
>>>> the
>>>>> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor
>> of
>>>>> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever
>>>> the
>>>>> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of
>>>> the
>>>>> original GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels
>>>> of
>>>>> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This
>> really
>>>>> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of
>> the
>>>>> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field,
>> but
>>>>> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
>>>> TDM,
>>>>> the Switching Capability specific information field includes
>> Minimum
>>>> LSP
>>>>> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field
>> so
>>>>> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would
>> overload
>>>>> the ISCD definition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF
>> work
>>>> is
>>>>> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions
>> when
>>>>> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
>>>>> building G.709 control from scratch).
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a ¨¦crit :
>>>>>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I
>> would
>>>>>>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see below
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>>>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>>>>>> -> PSC-n.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and
>> further
>>>>>>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>>>>>  providing any evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>> the
>>>>>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out
>>>> what
>>>>>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a
>>>> better
>>>>>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the
>>>> past.".
>>>>>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>>>>>  (tm) and move on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>> in
>>>>>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
>>>>>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>> and
>>>>>>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases
>> the
>>>>>>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in
>> the
>>>>>>  manner you are suggesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
>>>>>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
>>>>>>>> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
>>>>>>>> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able
>> to
>>>>>>>> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
>>>>>>>> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
>>>>>>>> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>>>>>>>> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>>>>>  describe how a given interface switches the information with
>> which
>>>> it
>>>>>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>> bandwidth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
>>>>>>>>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>>>>>> switching
>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>> (it
>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>>>>>> TDM
>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
>>>>>>>>>>> me that
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
>>>>>>>>>>> OTN as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
>>>>>>>>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
>>>>>>>>>>> in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
>>>>>>>>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>> change,
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>>>>>> (version
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing
>> list
>>>>>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Fatai,
	Unfortunately we have some competing precedents.  As I just mentioned
in my mail to John, the consensus was to introduce 3 new types.
(Albeit, consensus on this specific point is obscured by the use of
different label formats.)

Lou

On 12/9/2011 11:01 AM, Zhangfatai wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I personally agree with what John said, because we can find the evidence from the existing RFCs such as RFC4606, RFC4328, RFC5212 and RFC6001 which don't extend SC.
> 
> I think it is also consistent with what Julien said ("IETF work is to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions").
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Fatai
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> ·¢¼þÈË: John E Drake [jdrake@juniper.net]
> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ9ÈÕ 18:04
> µ½: Lou Berger
> Cc: Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric; CCAMP
> Ö÷Ìâ: RE: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> 
> Lou,
> 
> I think I would argue with your characterization of a.  Other than PSC 1-4, which as I have previously stated was an abject failure, switching capability was never used to indicate layers within the same switching technology.  So, I would argue that what we are doing in OTN is really a.  I.e., keep switching capability as it is, an indicator of the switching technology.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 7:16 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric; CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>> 1/2)
>>
>> John,
>>       As I'm sure you are aware, hierarchy within the same technology
>> layer
>> has been around for a while.  When we defined GMPLS, there was a desire
>> to represent level of hierarchy within a switching technology.  (This
>> requirement came in the context of PSC).  At the time we choose to
>> represent both switching switching technology and level of hierarchy
>> (within the technology) in the SC field.
>>
>> On one hand one can argue (as was our thinking at the time) that there
>> was only a need to represent a few per-technology hierarchies and that
>> it simplified GMPLS routing to operate on a minimum number of generic
>> fields.   On the other hand, one could argue that the SC field should
>> not be overloaded and there should be a separate per-technology
>> hierarchy indicator field.  Hindsight leaves me feeling that the latter
>> choice may have been the better one.  I don't recall exactly how we
>> came
>> to this conclusion, but there were lots or related discussions among
>> the
>> authors/editors (which includes you too!).  My bet is that it came from
>> Yakov, myself or Peter... Perhaps your memory is better than mine, but
>> either way please feel free to blame me ;-)
>>
>> No matter what, you now raise a good question.  Where do we go from
>> here?
>> a. Keep SC as it is, with it's overloaded semantics as both a
>>    common (across technologies) label/ISCD type indicator and
>>    intra-type hierarchy indicator.
>> b. Deprecate use of SC as an intra-type hierarchy indicator, and
>>    add such indication to technology-specific ISCDs.
>> c. Something else.
>>
>> I (and I believe Julien) are proposing (a), I believe you and the OTN
>> co-authors are proposing/implying (b).
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/7/2011 8:21 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am unaware of any requirement to indicate layers in a multi-layer
>>> scenario - I went back and looked at both RFC5339 and RFC6001 and
>>> didn't see anything.  And just to be clear, layers are technology
>>> specific.
>>>
>>> Since you mention RFC6001, I think it should be pointed out that that
>>> RFC does not address multi-layer networking, but only multi-region
>>> networking.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:29 PM
>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>> Cc: Julien Meuric; John E Drake; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue
>>>> 1/2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
>>>> question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator
>> of
>>>> hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to move into a
>>>> technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what you're saying
>> ST
>>>> provides.
>>>>
>>>> The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms, really runs
>>>> counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
>>>> nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete 6001, or do
>> a
>>>> bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific
>> layer
>>>> identifier?)
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
>>>>> Hi Julien,
>>>>>
>>>>> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or
>>>> RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything is missed in routing or signaling?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________
>>>>> ·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Julien
>>>> Meuric [julien.meuric@orange.com]
>>>>> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ6ÈÕ 23:31
>>>>> µ½: John E Drake; Lou Berger
>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>> Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John, hi Lou.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting
>>>> to
>>>>> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the
>> GMPLS
>>>>> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
>>>>> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
>>>>> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol
>> extensions
>>>>> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage
>> control.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
>>>>> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
>>>>> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth
>>>> the
>>>>> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor
>> of
>>>>> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever
>>>> the
>>>>> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of
>>>> the
>>>>> original GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels
>>>> of
>>>>> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This
>> really
>>>>> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of
>> the
>>>>> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field,
>> but
>>>>> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
>>>> TDM,
>>>>> the Switching Capability specific information field includes
>> Minimum
>>>> LSP
>>>>> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field
>> so
>>>>> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would
>> overload
>>>>> the ISCD definition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of IETF
>> work
>>>> is
>>>>> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions
>> when
>>>>> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
>>>>> building G.709 control from scratch).
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a ¨¦crit :
>>>>>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I
>> would
>>>>>>  like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see below
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>>>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>>>>>> -> PSC-n.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and
>> further
>>>>>>  asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>>>>>  providing any evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>> the
>>>>>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out
>>>> what
>>>>>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a
>>>> better
>>>>>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the
>>>> past.".
>>>>>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>>>>>  (tm) and move on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>> in
>>>>>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the technologies
>>>>>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>> and
>>>>>>  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases
>> the
>>>>>>  authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in
>> the
>>>>>>  manner you are suggesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is connected
>>>>>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS interfaces
>>>>>>>> may have different switching capabilities. For example an
>>>>>>>> interface that connects a given link to a node may not be able
>> to
>>>>>>>> switch individual packets, but it may be able to switch channels
>>>>>>>> within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not
>>>>>>>> have the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>>>>>>>> node need not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>>>>>  describe how a given interface switches the information with
>> which
>>>> it
>>>>>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>> bandwidth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF
>>>>>>>>>>> OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>>>>>> switching
>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>> (it
>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>>>>>> TDM
>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems to
>>>>>>>>>>> me that
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and is
>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to model
>>>>>>>>>>> OTN as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used to
>>>>>>>>>>> support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type identified
>>>>>>>>>>> in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other
>>>>>>>>>>> changes to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>> change,
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>>>>>> (version
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing
>> list
>>>>>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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Daniele,
	I agree we have conflicting precedent.  I also agree we should try to
quickly make a decision on this.  I think we should make a 'generalized'
and 'common control' consensus call and not a (OTN) technology specific
call, so we don't have to revisit this for the next technology.

Lou

On 12/12/2011 5:30 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I think whatever we do we are not consisted with what have been done
> up to now. If we define multiple values of switching capability we're
> no longer consistent with the SDH switching capability case, while on
> the other hand if we use a single value we're no longer consistent
> with the PSC case, so from this point of view I think the issue can't
> be solved.
> 
> Hence I'd prefer to keep a single OTN value for the same reasons
> already expressed by John.
> 
> Thanks
> Daniele
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
>> On Behalf Of Lou Berger
>> Sent: gioved¨¬ 8 dicembre 2011 16.16
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue 1/2)
>>
>> John,
>>       As I'm sure you are aware, hierarchy within the same
>> technology layer has been around for a while.  When we defined
>> GMPLS, there was a desire to represent level of hierarchy
>> within a switching technology.  (This requirement came in the
>> context of PSC).  At the time we choose to represent both
>> switching switching technology and level of hierarchy (within
>> the technology) in the SC field.
>>
>> On one hand one can argue (as was our thinking at the time)
>> that there was only a need to represent a few per-technology
>> hierarchies and that it simplified GMPLS routing to operate on
>> a minimum number of generic
>> fields.   On the other hand, one could argue that the SC field should
>> not be overloaded and there should be a separate
>> per-technology hierarchy indicator field.  Hindsight leaves me
>> feeling that the latter choice may have been the better one.
>> I don't recall exactly how we came to this conclusion, but
>> there were lots or related discussions among the
>> authors/editors (which includes you too!).  My bet is that it
>> came from Yakov, myself or Peter... Perhaps your memory is
>> better than mine, but either way please feel free to blame me ;-)
>>
>> No matter what, you now raise a good question.  Where do we go
>>from here?
>> a. Keep SC as it is, with it's overloaded semantics as both a
>>   common (across technologies) label/ISCD type indicator and
>>   intra-type hierarchy indicator.
>> b. Deprecate use of SC as an intra-type hierarchy indicator, and
>>   add such indication to technology-specific ISCDs.
>> c. Something else.
>>
>> I (and I believe Julien) are proposing (a), I believe you and
>> the OTN co-authors are proposing/implying (b).
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/7/2011 8:21 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am unaware of any requirement to indicate layers in a multi-layer
>>> scenario - I went back and looked at both RFC5339 and RFC6001 and
>>> didn't see anything.  And just to be clear, layers are technology
>>> specific.
>>>
>>> Since you mention RFC6001, I think it should be pointed out
>> that that
>>> RFC does not address multi-layer networking, but only multi-region
>>> networking.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 12:29 PM
>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>> Cc: Julien Meuric; John E Drake; CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: ´ð¸´: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>> 1/2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think Julien has it right (and as I've said on this list), it's a
>>>> question of leveraging or deprecating the use of SC as an indicator
>>>> of hierarchy.  Deprecating this use means that we need to
>> move into a
>>>> technology specific hierarchy indicator, which is what
>> you're saying
>>>> ST provides.
>>>>
>>>> The move from generic to technology-specific mechanisms,
>> really runs
>>>> counter to the basic principals of GMPLS and is likely to have some
>>>> nasty ripple effects.  (For example do we just obsolete
>> 6001, or do a
>>>> bis which allows for / requires carrying the technology-specific
>>>> layer
>>>> identifier?)
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 12/6/2011 2:34 PM, Zhangfatai wrote:
>>>>> Hi Julien,
>>>>>
>>>>> For TDM networks, Signal Type has beed introduced in RFC4606 or
>>>> RFC4328 or G.709V3 drafts to address what you need.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything is missed in routing or signaling?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________
>>>>> ·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Julien
>>>> Meuric [julien.meuric@orange.com]
>>>>> ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ6ÈÕ 23:31
>>>>> µ½: John E Drake; Lou Berger
>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>> Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi John, hi Lou.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting
>>>> to
>>>>> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless,
>> the GMPLS
>>>>> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
>>>>> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET
>> STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
>>>>> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol
>>>>> extensions from an almost single-stage control to a highly
>> multi-stage control.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
>>>>> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
>>>>> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth
>>>> the
>>>>> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor
>>>>> of IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations).
>>>>> Whatever
>>>> the
>>>>> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of
>>>> the
>>>>> original GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels
>>>> of
>>>>> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs."
>> This really
>>>>> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete
>> nature of the
>>>>> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field,
>>>>> but doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
>>>> TDM,
>>>>> the Switching Capability specific information field
>> includes Minimum
>>>> LSP
>>>>> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field
>>>>> so far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would
>>>>> overload the ISCD definition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation: my understanding of
>> IETF work
>>>> is
>>>>> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new
>> solutions when
>>>>> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
>>>>> building G.709 control from scratch).
>>>>>
>>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 30/11/2011 22:37, John E Drake a ¨¦crit :
>>>>>>  Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea
>> and I would
>>>>>> like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see below
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it significantly
>>>>>>>> overloads to intended meaning of Switching Capability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e., PSC-1
>>>>>>> -> PSC-n.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea
>> and further
>>>>>> asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth',
>> without
>>>>>> providing any evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>  PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure out
>>>> what
>>>>>>  it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we have a
>>>> better
>>>>>>  understanding of the technologies involved than we had in the
>>>> past.".
>>>>>>  I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -> PSC-4 was a bad idea
>>>>>>  (tm) and move on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching
>> Capability in
>>>>>>>> SDH/SONET.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
>> technologies
>>>>>>> involved than we had in the past.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>>>>>> and  we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both
>>>>>> cases the  authors saw no requirement to overload switching
>>>>>> capability in the  manner you are suggesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following,
>> which seems
>>>>>>>> clear enough to me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
>> connected
>>>>>>>> to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
>> interfaces may
>>>>>>>> have different switching capabilities. For example an interface
>>>>>>>> that connects a given link to a node may not be able to switch
>>>>>>>> individual packets, but it may be able to switch
>> channels within
>>>>>>>> an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end of a link need not have
>>>>>>>> the same switching capabilities. Interfaces on the same
>> node need
>>>>>>>> not have the same switching capabilities."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is
>> meant to
>>>>>> describe how a given interface switches the information with which
>>>> it
>>>>>>  is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>> bandwidth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re:
>> [CCAMP] OSPF OTN
>>>>>>>>>>> considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the switching
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few definitions:
>>>>>>>>>>> 3471 says "the
>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says "describes
>>>>>>> switching
>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define the
>>>>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>> (it
>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a "layer".
>>>>>>>>>>> While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer" it also says
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent (a)
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC, L2SC,
>>>>>>>>>>> TDM
>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types plus
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and
>> is should
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it
>> seems to me
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers than
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but are
>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b),
>> and is does
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what
>> has been
>>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
>> model OTN
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by this
>>>>>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are advertised
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents
>> identify that
>>>>>>>>>>> a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
>> to support
>>>>>>>>>>> G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it state
>>>>>>>>>>> that the value corresponding to the signal type
>> identified in
>>>>>>>>>>> the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without any other changes
>>>>>>>>>>> to the current definition of ISCD.) (3) that
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be updated to match
>>>>>>>>>>> above.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1 through
>>>>>>>>>>> TDM-n
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a secondary
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>>> change,
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used in
>>>>>>>>>>>> tandem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom most
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> ISCD.
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if the
>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the draft
>>>>>>>>>>>> (version
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial allocation
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth could
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B) with
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAX
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal was
>>>>>>>>>>>> to have both
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge the
>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>>> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________ CCAMP
>> mailing list
>>>>>>  CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>

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From kireeti@juniper.net  Mon Dec 12 13:38:47 2011
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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:37:54 -0800
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
Thread-Index: Acy5Fk7uQ6hkzez3QEuP5vJHTEjn/A==
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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Hi Julien,

On Dec 6, 2011, at 7:31 , Julien Meuric wrote:

> Hi John, hi Lou.
>=20
> On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting to
> prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS
> deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
> containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
> context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions
> from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.

Are you saying that OTN can be considered "highly multi-stage"?  (asking, f=
or my edification)

> On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
> implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
> upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth the
> pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of
> IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever the
> actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of the
> original GMPLS specification.

I believe the primary reason is that in packet networks, hierarchy is prima=
rily used for control plane scale.  In practice, this hierarchy was achieve=
d as LDP over RSVP (not RSVP over RSVP, where one might have considered PSC=
 levels); the current trend is LDP or RSVP over BGP.  (Perhaps we should si=
gnal "labeled BGP" as PSC-n (n>1) using the BGP TE attribute!)

> Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels of
> PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really
> looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the
> technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but
> doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.

Agree completely with you.  If the thinking behind the PSC levels from one =
of the original authors is of any interest, here it is:

For packet networks, there is clearly no pre-assigned bandwidth for PSC lev=
els.  The intent was purely to control hierarchy; one was allowed to tunnel=
 PSC-1 over PSC-2 ... over TDM over lambda over fiber.  One could (should, =
would) not tunnel fiber over lambda, or lambda over TDM (or TDM over packet=
, but then, MPLS is rife with layer violations.)  Likewise, an attempt to t=
unnel PSC 2 over PSC 1 was to be disallowed (or flagged for management inte=
rvention).

One could have considering defining levels of TDM as well, but (a) SDH was =
beyond me; (b) the standardization atmosphere around SDH was extremely char=
ged; (c) my eyes would glaze over whenever SUKLM was mentioned.  Could one =
really assign SC TDM levels to PDH/SDH that captured the allowed hierarchy?

With ODU, I believe that one can simply assign numbers to levels such that =
the tunneling hierarchy is adequately captured.  I believe (but am not comp=
letely sure, as people here are amazingly innovative) that one cannot tunne=
l ODU5 over ODU0.  If that is of value, then there should be multiple TDM l=
evels (or perhaps, ODU levels, between TDM and lambda).  BTW, these levels =
have nothing to do with actual bandwidth.

> Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is TDM,
> the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum LSP
> Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so
> far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload
> the ISCD definition.
>=20
> Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation:

Rather, I would say, think utility -- if it is useful to have multiple SC l=
evels to capture the ODUk hierarchy, please do so.  You will not escape put=
ting bandwidth somewhere (as I understand, there are multiple bandwidths fo=
r ODU2, and one has to be careful with suffixes and decimal places), probab=
ly in the ISCD.

One point of consideration is ODUflex -- where does it fit in the hierarchy=
?  How does one (if at all) assign an SC value to ODUflex?

> my understanding of IETF work is
> to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when
> they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
> building G.709 control from scratch).

Clearly, one can solve the problem in multiple ways and in multiple TLVs, i=
ncluding rolling an entirely new one.

> My 2 cents,

ditto

Kireeti.

> Julien


From neil.2.harrison@bt.com  Tue Dec 13 00:40:13 2011
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From: <neil.2.harrison@bt.com>
To: <kireeti@juniper.net>, <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:40:48 +0000
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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References: <B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA2293E672A9@ESESSCMS0360.eemea.ericsson.se> <4ED64A32.8060707@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CA99D@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4ED65D2D.2040400@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CADAB@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4ED69B7D.409@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CAEE5@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4EDE354F.20803@orange.com> <260DC960-2377-43A3-ACB5-818ACF21EA5E@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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Kireeti,

I'm not surprised you are confused.  Let me try and shed a little light on =
the key underlying arch principles at play here.....


'Time' is a key resource dimension in networking ('space' is another one). =
 There are 2 main ways we can carve-up and label a time resource and so all=
ocate layer network resource to many (client) users:

1	regular time-slices of (i) known starting epoch and (ii) known duration.
2	irregular time-slices of (i) variable starting epoch and (ii) variable du=
ration

The former leads to the co-cs mode network technologies.  A forwarding labe=
l now becomes an implicit position in time (the 'time-slot') and the resour=
ce provided is fixed (since the duration is a precise number of bits at som=
e bit rate...a bit being the atomic unit of (Shannon) information resource)=
.

The latter leads to the cl-ps and co-ps mode network technologies.  Since w=
e must have a connection in order to be able to deterministically manage re=
source we will only discuss the co-ps mode further (noting that by providin=
g a parent connection the child co-ps mode traffic units can take various s=
hort cuts on their labelling vs their cl-ps mode cousins, specifically:  om=
it SA label, omit PID label (if constant client), reduce scope of DA label =
to link-unique rather than network-unique].  Here, a link-unique forwarding=
 label (=3D=3DDA proxy) now needs to be explicitly provided in each traffic=
 unit and the traffic unit duration can be of a variable number of bits...s=
o the resource required may not be known a priori of the arrival (at some v=
ariable epoch) of the traffic unit [Aside=3D> ATM fixed the number of bits =
in the traffic unit in order to attempt to provide some further determinism=
 of resource demanded...and this has key implications wrt hierarchy, ie one=
 cannot have 'self-nesting' in ATM, ie ATMoverATM...a critical observation =
that we come back to].

Now these factors on how we carve-up/label a time resource give rise to som=
e key arch behaviours and differences between the modes...for example:
A	One is forced to have proper (single-source) connections in the co-cs mod=
e....not necessarily true for the co-ps mode
B	One is forced to take the MP/CP logically OOB in the co-cs mode..... not =
necessarily true for the co-ps mode
C	Transparency (which is THE key client service property of a transport net=
work) is always provided in the co-cs mode (ie all client symbols treated e=
qually wrt forwarding importance irrespective of the ultimate TOS nature of=
 the message/file/stream application, which must always be present in all n=
etworking cases).... not necessarily true for the co-ps mode
D	A key corollary of transparency is that there is no such thing as 'QoS cl=
asses' in a connection of the co-cs mode (which a very good thing for a tra=
nsport network).... not necessarily true for the co-ps mode
E	Crucially (as we will see shortly) one cannot create hierarchy by 'self-n=
esting' traffic units of the co-cs mode, ie SDH VC4overVC4 is obviously not=
 possible.....one can however 'self-nest' variable length generically struc=
tured traffic units of the co-ps mode (ATM being the exception as noted ear=
lier due to the fixed traffic unit resource size). =20


Now the PDH form of the co-cs mode was based on layer networks which could =
have independent clocks at each layer (within certain ranges).  The problem=
 with this however is that one has to demultiplex the whole stack up to the=
 highest layer of interest as one could not extract this easily/directly fr=
om some lower level aggregate.  SDH attempted to address this by providing =
much tighter allowed clock ranges over fewer layer networks.

However, these is still a major weakness here in SDH related to point E abo=
ve which I will now explain...

In all networking scenarios there is always a:
-	TOS layer network like IP.....this interfaces directly with external mess=
age/file/stream applications) and a
-	BOS layer network present....this modulates an EM wave in either metallic=
/optical/radio media as this is the means to transfer information, ultimate=
ly sourced from the TOS message/file/stream applications, over large geogra=
phic distance.

A key measure of efficacy in networking (=3D=3Dcost) is the layer network d=
istance TOS to BOS, ie how many layer networks do we have to create/configu=
re/manage?....we need to reduce this to the smallest number possible (the a=
nswer is not one of course ;-)). =20

Now consider the nature of the traditional PDH/SDH hierarchies and the fact=
 that when not dealing with a TOS public network the key service one provid=
es is the transparent carriage of the layer network of party M over a layer=
 network of party N...this is a client/server relationship.  This means tha=
t party N has to carry the traffic units (ie whole bit-stream comprising DP=
/MP/CP) of the layer network of party M in a completely transparent manner.=
....so the payload area of the DP traffic units of the layer network of par=
ty N must fully contain al the DP/CP/MP traffic units of the layer network =
of party M.

But now what happens when party N wants its traffic units transparently car=
ried over the layer network of some other party, O say? This means we have =
to create a even lower layer network to transparently carry of the DP/CP/MP=
 traffic units of party N.  We can recurse this argument for carrying the t=
raffic units of party O over an even lower layer network belonging to party=
 P, etc, etc.=20

What we end up doing is a creating a never-ending hierarchy of formally sta=
ndardised layer networks, ie in theory an unbounded TOS to BOS layer networ=
k distance.  This is obviously not a great idea.

The current OTN just replicates the PDH/SDH hierarchy ideas.  What we reall=
y need is to recognise the above problem (ie we can't keep creating formal =
hierarchy just to carry some arbitrary defined layer network X over some fu=
rther arbitrary defined layer network Y, etc) and move to the notion of a g=
eneric 'digital wrapper' framing structure for the traffic units of a true =
BOS co-cs mode layer network....which is in many ways looks like the co-ps =
mode, though we need the key arch behaviours I noted earlier for our BOS tr=
ansport layer network, especially the notion of transparency.

regards, Neil


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Kireeti Kompella
> Sent: 12 December 2011 21:38
> To: Julien Meuric
> Cc: CCAMP
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>=20
> Hi Julien,
>=20
> On Dec 6, 2011, at 7:31 , Julien Meuric wrote:
>=20
> > Hi John, hi Lou.
> >
> > On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting to
> > prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the GMPLS
> > deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high order
> > containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc). In that
> > context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol extensions
> > from an almost single-stage control to a highly multi-stage control.
>=20
> Are you saying that OTN can be considered "highly multi-stage"?
> (asking, for my edification)
>=20
> > On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
> > implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
> > upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth the
> > pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS flavor of
> > IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations). Whatever the
> > actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n are part of the
> > original GMPLS specification.
>=20
> I believe the primary reason is that in packet networks, hierarchy is
> primarily used for control plane scale.  In practice, this hierarchy was
> achieved as LDP over RSVP (not RSVP over RSVP, where one might have
> considered PSC levels); the current trend is LDP or RSVP over BGP.
> (Perhaps we should signal "labeled BGP" as PSC-n (n>1) using the BGP TE
> attribute!)
>=20
> > Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels of
> > PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This really
> > looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete nature of the
> > technology will introduce one more information into the SC field, but
> > doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS specification.
>=20
> Agree completely with you.  If the thinking behind the PSC levels from
> one of the original authors is of any interest, here it is:
>=20
> For packet networks, there is clearly no pre-assigned bandwidth for PSC
> levels.  The intent was purely to control hierarchy; one was allowed to
> tunnel PSC-1 over PSC-2 ... over TDM over lambda over fiber.  One could
> (should, would) not tunnel fiber over lambda, or lambda over TDM (or TDM
> over packet, but then, MPLS is rife with layer violations.)  Likewise,
> an attempt to tunnel PSC 2 over PSC 1 was to be disallowed (or flagged
> for management intervention).
>=20
> One could have considering defining levels of TDM as well, but (a) SDH
> was beyond me; (b) the standardization atmosphere around SDH was
> extremely charged; (c) my eyes would glaze over whenever SUKLM was
> mentioned.  Could one really assign SC TDM levels to PDH/SDH that
> captured the allowed hierarchy?
>=20
> With ODU, I believe that one can simply assign numbers to levels such
> that the tunneling hierarchy is adequately captured.  I believe (but am
> not completely sure, as people here are amazingly innovative) that one
> cannot tunnel ODU5 over ODU0.  If that is of value, then there should be
> multiple TDM levels (or perhaps, ODU levels, between TDM and lambda).
> BTW, these levels have nothing to do with actual bandwidth.
>=20
> > Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
> TDM,
> > the Switching Capability specific information field includes Minimum
> LSP
> > Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in the SC field so
> > far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk layer would overload
> > the ISCD definition.
> >
> > Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation:
>=20
> Rather, I would say, think utility -- if it is useful to have multiple
> SC levels to capture the ODUk hierarchy, please do so.  You will not
> escape putting bandwidth somewhere (as I understand, there are multiple
> bandwidths for ODU2, and one has to be careful with suffixes and decimal
> places), probably in the ISCD.
>=20
> One point of consideration is ODUflex -- where does it fit in the
> hierarchy?  How does one (if at all) assign an SC value to ODUflex?
>=20
> > my understanding of IETF work is
> > to put emphasis on consistency and avoid defining new solutions when
> > they already exist, even if not absolutely optimized (we are not
> > building G.709 control from scratch).
>=20
> Clearly, one can solve the problem in multiple ways and in multiple
> TLVs, including rolling an entirely new one.
>=20
> > My 2 cents,
>=20
> ditto
>=20
> Kireeti.
>=20
> > Julien
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Tue Dec 13 16:29:44 2011
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane =
Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : General Network Element Constraint Encoding for GMPLS Co=
ntrolled Networks
	Author(s)       : Greg M. Bernstein
                          Young Lee
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-06.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2011-12-13

   Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching can be used to control a
   wide variety of technologies. In some of these technologies network
   elements and links may impose additional routing constraints such as
   asymmetric switch connectivity, non-local label assignment, and label
   range limitations on links.

   This document provides efficient, protocol-agnostic encodings for
   general information elements representing connectivity and label
   constraints as well as label availability. It is intended that
   protocol-specific documents will reference this memo to describe how
   information is carried for specific uses.





A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-enc=
ode-06.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-enco=
de-06.txt


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Subject: [CCAMP] ODUflex questons for OTN OSPF, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi Daniele,

=20

I have a few questions on the advertisement of ODUflex.

=20

1) For the advertisement of the Max LSP Bandwidth of the ODUflex(CBR)
signal type, it is not clear how the Max LSP BW should be computed.
Specifically, should the BW advertisement take into account the HO-OPU
bit rate tolerance?  I see a couple of possibilities:

  a. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal =
bit
rate)

  b. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal =
bit
rate) * (1-HO OPUk bit rate tolerance)

 =20

If bit rate tolerance is not accounted in the BW advertisement, then the
path computation function would need to adjust for this factor based on
an implicit assumption of the tolerance, which is 20 ppm for the HO OPUk
supported at this time.

=20

In general, it would be nice to have examples of the Max LSP BW for
ODUflex(CBR) and ODUflex(GFP).

=20

2) It is my understanding that the TSG bits indicate the tributary slot
granularity when the ODUk serves as a HO-ODU. It is not clear how to
fill in the TSG field for those ODUk signal types that do not support
the muxing of LO-ODU. This would apply to ODU0, ODU2e and ODUflex.
Should the field be set to 00 (currently reserved) or a different value?

=20

There was a more general question on if this field was still needed on a
per signal type. Given that link bundling requires the same multiplexing
hierarchy across all links in the bundle, does the need for this field
go away. Or do we foresee that there could be cases where different TSG
could be supported in different levels of the multiplexing hierarchy.

=20

3) For a link that supports the 3 types of ODUflex (CBR, GFP-resizable,
GFP-non-resizable), an implementation would need to advertise the Max
LSP BW and Unreserved BW against signal types of 20, 21, and 22. For
efficiency, is it permitted for implementations that support both
GFP-resizable and GFP-non-resizable, they MAY advertise the BW under the
resizable signal type (21) and have it implicitly understood that it
also supports GFP-non-resizable with the same BW.  (Note that
implementations could advertise them separately, especially if the BW
were different).  Or MUST implementations advertise GFP-resizable
(ST=3D21) and GFP-non-resizable (ST=3D22) explicitly.

=20

Thanks,

Fred


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Daniele,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I have a few questions on the advertisement of =
ODUflex.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>1) For the advertisement of the Max LSP Bandwidth of =
the ODUflex(CBR) signal type, it is not clear how the Max LSP BW should =
be computed. Specifically, should the BW advertisement take into account =
the HO-OPU bit rate tolerance?&nbsp; I see a couple of =
possibilities:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; a. Max LSP BW =
ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal bit =
rate)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; b. Max LSP BW ODUflex =
(CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal bit rate) * (1-HO OPUk =
bit rate tolerance)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>If bit rate tolerance is not =
accounted in the BW advertisement, then the path computation function =
would need to adjust for this factor based on an implicit assumption of =
the tolerance, which is 20 ppm for the HO OPUk supported at this =
time.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>In general, it would be nice to have examples of the =
Max LSP BW for ODUflex(CBR) and ODUflex(GFP).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>2) It is my =
understanding that the TSG bits indicate the tributary slot granularity =
when the ODUk serves as a HO-ODU. It is not clear how to fill in the TSG =
field for those ODUk signal types that do not support the muxing of =
LO-ODU. This would apply to ODU0, ODU2e and ODUflex. Should the field be =
set to 00 (currently reserved) or a different value?<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>There was a =
more general question on if this field was still needed on a per signal =
type. Given that link bundling requires the same multiplexing hierarchy =
across all links in the bundle, does the need for this field go away. Or =
do we foresee that there could be cases where different TSG could be =
supported in different levels of the multiplexing =
hierarchy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>3) For a link that supports the 3 types of ODUflex =
(CBR, GFP-resizable, GFP-non-resizable), an implementation would need to =
advertise the Max LSP BW and Unreserved BW against signal types of 20, =
21, and 22. For efficiency, is it permitted for implementations that =
support both GFP-resizable and GFP-non-resizable, they MAY advertise the =
BW under the resizable signal type (21) and have it implicitly =
understood that it also supports GFP-non-resizable with the same =
BW.&nbsp; (Note that implementations could advertise them separately, =
especially if the BW were different).&nbsp; Or MUST implementations =
advertise GFP-resizable (ST=3D21) and GFP-non-resizable (ST=3D22) =
explicitly.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Fred<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------_=_NextPart_001_01CCBC32.894BC125--

From julien.meuric@orange.com  Tue Dec 20 01:22:20 2011
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
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Hi Kireeti,

See below.

Cheers,

Julien


Le 12/12/2011 22:37, Kireeti Kompella a écrit :
>  Hi Julien,
>
>  On Dec 6, 2011, at 7:31 , Julien Meuric wrote:
>
> > Hi John, hi Lou.
> >
> > On the one hand, SONET/SDH and OTN are close: it is highly tempting
> > to prolong control of the former to the latter. Nevertheless, the
> > GMPLS deployments on SONET/SDH I am aware of only control high
> > order containers (i.e. SDH VC-4/VC-4-nc or SONET STS-1/STS-1-nc).
> > In that context, I do not think we can easily generalized protocol
> > extensions from an almost single-stage control to a highly
> > multi-stage control.
>
>  Are you saying that OTN can be considered "highly multi-stage"?
>  (asking, for my edification)

[JM] This is what I said/wrote (but you may also work on my English 
language edification).
[JM] SDH core network planing teams are currently used to working on a 
single switching granularity: VC-4. When they look at the switching 
granularities in OTN cross-connects, their eyes start to glaze (think of 
SUKLM). They rather hope that smaller containers will be aggregated 
before entering the core (like in SDH), or that TDM services will evolve 
into a simplified sub-part of the hierarchy (e.g. ODUflex and ODU4)...

>
> > On the other hand, it seems that PSC-1 to PSC-4 have not been
> > implemented much. Reasons behind are only guesses. Mine is that
> > upgrading implementations and deployments of MPLS-TE was not worth
> > the pain with respect to the added value of moving to the GMPLS
> > flavor of IGPs and RSVP-TE (especially for packet-only operations).
> > Whatever the actual reason for having so few implementations, PSC-n
> > are part of the original GMPLS specification.
>
>  I believe the primary reason is that in packet networks, hierarchy is
>  primarily used for control plane scale. In practice, this hierarchy
>  was achieved as LDP over RSVP (not RSVP over RSVP, where one might
>  have considered PSC levels); the current trend is LDP or RSVP over
>  BGP. (Perhaps we should signal "labeled BGP" as PSC-n (n>1) using
>  the BGP TE attribute!

[JM] My last experience in mixing BGP and GMPLS was in L1VPN WG. I've 
realized since that I should rather have worked on a GUI...

>
> > Let me quote the section about PSC in RFC 4202: "The various levels
> > of PSC establish a hierarchy of LSPs tunneled within LSPs." This
> > really looks like what we are doing in OTN. Yes, the discrete
> > nature of the technology will introduce one more information into
> > the SC field, but doing otherwise would depreciate existing GMPLS
> > specification.
>
>  Agree completely with you. If the thinking behind the PSC levels
>  from one of the original authors is of any interest, here it is:
>
>  For packet networks, there is clearly no pre-assigned bandwidth for
>  PSC levels. The intent was purely to control hierarchy; one was
>  allowed to tunnel PSC-1 over PSC-2 ... over TDM over lambda over
>  fiber. One could (should, would) not tunnel fiber over lambda, or
>  lambda over TDM (or TDM over packet, but then, MPLS is rife with
>  layer violations.) Likewise, an attempt to tunnel PSC 2 over PSC 1
>  was to be disallowed (or flagged for management intervention).
>
>  One could have considering defining levels of TDM as well, but (a)
>  SDH was beyond me; (b) the standardization atmosphere around SDH was
>  extremely charged; (c) my eyes would glaze over whenever SUKLM was
>  mentioned. Could one really assign SC TDM levels to PDH/SDH that
>  captured the allowed hierarchy?
>
>  With ODU, I believe that one can simply assign numbers to levels such
>  that the tunneling hierarchy is adequately captured. I believe (but
>  am not completely sure, as people here are amazingly innovative) that
>  one cannot tunnel ODU5 over ODU0. If that is of value, then there
>  should be multiple TDM levels (or perhaps, ODU levels, between TDM
>  and lambda). BTW, these levels have nothing to do with actual
>  bandwidth.
>
[JM] Thank you for the bit of history. At that time, what a foolish idea 
to control transmission circuits using RSVP-TE! Have you ever considered 
MPLS label configuration using TL1 over CLNP?... ;-)

> > Furthermore, RFC 4203 says: "When the Switching Capability field is
> > TDM, the Switching Capability specific information field includes
> > Minimum LSP Bandwidth..." In other words, even if not included in
> > the SC field so far, one cannot really say that a value per ODUk
> > layer would overload the ISCD definition.
> >
> > Thus, we have legacy vs. depreciation:
>
>  Rather, I would say, think utility -- if it is useful to have
>  multiple SC levels to capture the ODUk hierarchy, please do so. You
>  will not escape putting bandwidth somewhere (as I understand, there
>  are multiple bandwidths for ODU2, and one has to be careful with
>  suffixes and decimal places), probably in the ISCD.

[JM] I guess we all agree the information will be in {ISCD, IACD}.

>
>  One point of consideration is ODUflex -- where does it fit in the
>  hierarchy?

[JM] That is an open discussion if that path is taken. I believe its 
definition can be reflected in several ways in the IGP (e.g. L2SC over 
ODUflex in IACD).

>  How does one (if at all) assign an SC value to ODUflex?

[JM] Ask IANA? ;-)

>
> > my understanding of IETF work is to put emphasis on consistency and
> > avoid defining new solutions when they already exist, even if not
> > absolutely optimized (we are not building G.709 control from
> > scratch).
>
>  Clearly, one can solve the problem in multiple ways and in multiple
>  TLVs, including rolling an entirely new one.
>
> > My 2 cents,
>
>  ditto
>
>  Kireeti.
>
> > Julien
>
>


From julien.meuric@orange.com  Tue Dec 20 06:55:48 2011
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgUjogIE9TUEYgT1ROIGNvbnNpZGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?ons_post_IETF_82_=28Issue_1/2=29?=
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Hi Fatai.

About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
- we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN technology/regions;
- the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk 
capabilities of nodes.

What we disagree on:
- using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy level in 
the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs 
(e.g. 4203);
- selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.

This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already have 2 
options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
a) multiple SC values,
b)"Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)".

First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was to 
reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions", but 
from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a single 
xSC (e.g. x=P).

Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a) above, 
this is a new extension, created in 
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the SC 
field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a 
sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full list). 
The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means the SC 
field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk: even 
for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific 
sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which represent the 
hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done for 
PBB-TE (RFC 6060).

Regards,

Julien


Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a Ã©crit :
>  Hi Julien,
>
>  I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be resovled
>  without extending Switching Cap.
>
>  It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
>  RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
> 
===============================================================================
>
>
Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type value 
(e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component 
networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface 
Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the 
interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the 
switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of the 
associated layers.
>
>  In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
>  Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
>  switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC
>  (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control plane
>  instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
>  region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at least
>  two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on
>  the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
>  single GMPLS control plane instance.
> 
=====================================================================================
>
>
Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate the 
different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different granularity), 
we can use Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well) to 
differentiate the different granularity.
>
>  So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using Switching
>  Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity requested
>  in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
>
>  Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing
>  mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't think
>  we need to extend Switching Cap.
>
>
>  Thanks
>
>  Fatai
>
>
>
>  ________________________________________ å�‘ä»¶äºº: Julien Meuric
>  [julien.meuric@orange.com] å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´: 2011å¹´12æœˆ7æ—¥ 0:08 åˆ°: Zhangfatai Cc:
>  CCAMP; pce@ietf.org ä¸»é¢˜: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations post
>  IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>
>  Hi Fatai.
>
>  As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will
>  agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer
>  would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field rather
>  straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description, e.g.
>  in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
>  adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback on
>  the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
>  server layer within the ERO.
>
>  Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap
>  value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest so as
>  to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Julien
>
>
>  Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a Ã©crit :
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Fatai
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
> > (SERGIO)
> >
> > John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
> >
> > Thanks Sergio and Pietro
> >
> > SERGIO BELOTTI
> >
> > ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
> > Evolution
> >
> > via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
> > Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inviato:
> > mercoledÃ¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:
> > Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> >
> > Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
> > like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
> >
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> >> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> >> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
> >> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> >>
> >>
> >> John,
> >>
> >> see below
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
> >>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
> >>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
> >>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
> >>> Capability.
> >>
> >> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
> >> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
> >> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
> >> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
> >> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
> >> PSC-1 -> PSC-n.
> >
> > [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
> > asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
> > providing any evidence.
> >
> > To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
> > the PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
> > out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
> > have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
> > had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
> > PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
> >
> >>
> >>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
> >>> in SDH/SONET.
> >>
> >> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
> >> technologies involved than we had in the past.
> >
> > [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
> > and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases
> > the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in
> > the manner you are suggesting.
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
> >>> seems clear enough to me:
> >>>
> >>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
> >>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
> >>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
> >>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
> >>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able to
> >>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
> >>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
> >>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
> >>> capabilities."
> >>
> >> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
> >
> > [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
> > describe how a given interface switches the information with which
> > it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
> > bandwidth.
> >
> >>
> >> Lou
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> >>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> >>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
> >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> >>>> (Issue
> >> 1/2)
> >>>>
> >>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>>>> I completely disagree.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>>> Behalf
> >>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
> >>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
> >>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> >>>> 1/2)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
> >>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Daniele said:
> >>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> >>>>>>> most ODUk of
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> >>>>>>> the ISCD.
> >>>> After
> >>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
> >>>>>>> idea was to
> >>>> reject
> >>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>>> meaning of
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
> >>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
> >>>>>>> switching capability field)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
> >>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
> >>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
> >> type
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
> >>>>>> "describes
> >> switching
> >>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
> >>>>>> the term
> >> (it
> >>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
> >>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
> >>>>>> it also says hierarchy
> >> occurs
> >>>>>> "between interface types".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
> >>>>>> (a)
> >> different
> >>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
> >>>>>> hierarchy
> >> --
> >>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
> >> definition
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
> >>>>>> L2SC, TDM
> >> LSC,
> >>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
> >>>>>> plus the
> >>>> definition
> >>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
> >>>>>> should
> >> each
> >>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
> >>>>>> to me that
> >>>> they
> >>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
> >>>>>> than
> >>>> technology
> >>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
> >>>>>> are
> >> different
> >>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
> >>>>>> is does
> >> each
> >>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
> >>>>>> been done
> >>>> more
> >>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
> >>>>>> model OTN as
> >> a
> >>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
> >>>>>> this approach
> >>>> for
> >>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
> >>>>>> advertised
> >> within
> >>>> an
> >>>>>> IGP.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
> >>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
> >>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
> >>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
> >>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
> >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
> >>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
> >>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
> >>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
> >>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
> >>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
> >>>>>> updated to match above.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
> >>>>>> through TDM-n
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
> >>>>>> secondary
> >>>> discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Comments?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lou
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
> >> significantly
> >>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
> >>>>>> actual
> >> change,
> >>>> so
> >>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
> >>>>>> really
> >> need
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
> >>>>>>> meeting in
> >>>> Taipei
> >>>>>> two
> >>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
> >>>>>>> issues:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
> >>>>>>> type
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
> >>>>>>> containers) and
> >>>> Type
> >>>>>> 3
> >>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
> >>>>>>> in tandem?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> >>>>>>> most ODUk of
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> >>>>>>> the ISCD.
> >>>> After
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
> >>>>>>> was to
> >> reject
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> >>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
> >>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
> >>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
> >>>>>>> draft (version
> >> -
> >>>>>> 00).
> >>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
> >> hierarchy
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
> >>>>>>> bandwidth
> >>>>>> needs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
> >>>>>>> about the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
> >> Unreserved
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
> >>>>>>> ODUflex
> >>>> LSP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
> >>>>>>> different
> >>>>>> rates,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
> >>>>>>> allocation of the
> >>>>>> free
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> TSs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
> >>>>>>> could be
> >>>>>> useful
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
> >>>>>>> following
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
> >>>>>>> with MAX
> >>>> LSP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
> >>>>>>> Unreserved
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
> >>>>>>> and 3
> >>>> ODUflex
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
> >>>>>>> only one
> >> can
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
> >>>>>>> sure) that
> >> two
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
> >>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
> >>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
> >>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
> >>>> (Type
> >>>>>> 2)
> >>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
> >>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
> >>>>>>> was to have both
> >>>> pieces
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
> >>>>>>> the two
> >> TLVs
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>>> a single one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
> >>>>>>> before
> >>>>>> proceeding
> >>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Daniele
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
> >>>>>>> Broadband*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
> >>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> >>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
> >>>>>>> receive
> >> email
> >>>> on
> >>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
> >> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
> >>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Tue Dec 20 07:14:32 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>, Zhangfatai <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:14:01 -0800
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>John, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to emphasize what you've already well menti=
oned
about multi-layer in OTN.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>This is what reports the Recommendation represen=
ting Optical
Transport Network architecture , G.872.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>.....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Since the resources that support these
topological components support a heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, <span
style=3D'background:yellow'>the ODU layer is modelled as a single layer net=
work</span>
that is independent of bit-rate.&nbsp; The ODU bit-rate is a parameter that
allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU link connection to be
determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'=
font-size:
10.0pt'>-----Messaggio originale-----<br>
Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Joh=
n E
Drake<br>
Inviato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 16.14<br>
A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai<br>
Cc: CCAMP<br>
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] </span></font><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span
style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font>: R: OSP=
F OTN
considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Julien,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I don't know how many times we want to go over t=
his.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>As you might expect, Switching Capability enable=
s path
computation to be aware of regions in which there are different switching
capabilities.&nbsp; It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers)=
 within
those regions.&nbsp; In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the
Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SO=
NET
which, along with OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with wh=
ich
we have to deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastric=
ht,
it was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of multi-l=
ayer
in its modeling of OTN networks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberra=
tion
that can be attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collectiv=
e
memory?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Of Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; To: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] </span></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; About the IGP, I believe we agree on severa=
l
things:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - we are dealing with the ODUk layers withi=
n the
OTN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; technology/regions;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put t=
he
information on ODUk<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; capabilities of nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - using the term &quot;extension&quot; to r=
efer
to encoding the hierarchy level<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] =
are
part of existing RFCs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (e.g. 4203);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - selecting the SC field as an information =
on the
hierarchy level.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; This leaves us with an open discussion on t=
he
latter. We already have 2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; a) multiple SC values,<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&a=
mp;
Encoding Type as well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; First of all, I do not believe the original
intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms =
may
map to &quot;regions&quot;, but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; from a codepoint perspective we can have se=
veral
values behind a single<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Then you propose to use the &quot;[OTN] Sig=
nal
Type&quot;: as opposed to a)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; this is a new extension, created in<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As e=
mphasized
by Kireeti, the SC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; field should allow to constrain path comput=
ation
into a range or a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessar=
ily
specifying a full list).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the =
whole
OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; SC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; field is useless to prune the network graph=
 when
routing an ODUk: even<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to=
 parse
some OTN-specific<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the
&quot;old-fashion&quot; approach which represent the<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; hierarchy information at a higher level in =
the
IGP, like it was done<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; PBB-TE (RFC 6060).<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6cri=
t :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Julien,<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I agree the requirement that you
mentioned, but it can be resovled<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without extending Switching Cap.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is known that there are two c=
ases
described in RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; RFC5339, one is MRN, another one=
 is
MLN. In RFC5212, it says:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Thus, a control plane region, identified by=
 its
switching type value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into
smaller-granularity component<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; networks based on &quot;data plane switchin=
g
layers&quot;.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD)
[RFC4202],&nbsp; identifying the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; interface switching capability (ISC), the
encoding type, and the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; switching bandwidth granularity, enables th=
e
characterization of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; associated layers.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this document, we define a
multi-layer network (MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Traffic Engineering (TE) domain
comprising multiple data plane<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; switching layers either of the s=
ame
ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controll=
ed by
a single GMPLS control plane<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instance. We further define a
particular case of MLNs. A multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region network (MRN) is defined =
as a
TE domain supporting at least<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; two different switching types (e=
.g.,
PSC and TDM), either hosted on<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the same device or on different =
ones,
and under the control of a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; single GMPLS control plane insta=
nce.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switchi=
ng Cap
to differentiate the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; different &quot;layers&quot;; for MLN case =
(same
ISC with different granularity),<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; we can use Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type =
(&amp;
Encoding Type as well) to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; differentiate the different granularity.<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So, come back to your question, =
it can
be achived by using Switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Signal=
 Type
to identify the granularity requested<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in OTN networks(e.g., this infor=
mation
can be carried in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Lastly, in my opinion, if there =
is no
issue based on the existing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or definition without
extending Switching Cap, I don't<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; think<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we need to extend Switching Cap.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;
________________________________________ </span></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meuric@orange.com] </spa=
n></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: 2011</span><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-U=
S
style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span lang=3DE=
N-US>12</span><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DE=
N-US> 0:08 </span><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B5=BD</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP; pce@ietf.org </span></fon=
t><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; post<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As co-author of
draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; agree on the fact that having a
Switching Capability per ODUk layer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; would make the use of objects
including a Switching Cap field rather<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; straightforward and enables a
fine-grained resource description,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to
precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; adaptation requested by a higher=
 layer,
or to get a clear feedback<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; on<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the missing adaptation for
unsuccessful path computations; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to
precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; server layer within the ERO.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you think that summarizin=
g
G.709 by a single Switching Cap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; value would take some capabiliti=
es
away? What would you suggest so<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to achieve the same level of det=
ails
in that scenario?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Julien<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai =
a
=A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I agree that there is no need to
overload Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- From:
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] O=
n
Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors, we shared
completely your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Sergio and Pietro<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System
Architect Optics Portfolio<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) <st=
1:country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region> T=
: +39
0396863033<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Messaggio originale----- Da:
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] P=
er
conto di John E Drake Inviato:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 30 novembre 2011 2=
2.37 A: Lou
Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN consideratio=
ns
post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Comments inline. I still think th=
is is
a terrible idea and I would<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; like to see what the rest of the =
WG
thinks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- Fr=
om:
Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sen=
t:
Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN consider=
ations
post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E=
 Drake
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Using Switching Capabilit=
y to
indicate link bandwidth seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ill-considered at best,
especially since this information is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carried in other fields, =
and as
Daniele noted, it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; significantly overloads t=
o
intended meaning of Switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Capability.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I agree with the point on BW,=
 but
my point was related to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer&amp;hierarchy implicati=
ons of
the different ODUk values. I'd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think that using values that =
are
TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n should make this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; clear and remove any ambiguit=
y
related to bandwidth. It is also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; completely consistent with th=
e base
GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] You are simply asserting tha=
t this
is a good idea and further<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; asserting that there is &quot;amb=
iguity
related to bandwidth', without<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; providing any evidence.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To the best of my knowledge no on=
e ever
implemented or deployed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hierarchy, =
simply
because no one could figure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; out what it meant. To quote from =
you,
below, &quot;Well hopefully we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; have a better understanding of th=
e
technologies involved than we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; had in the past.&quot;. I.e., we =
should
all understand that PSC-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and mov=
e on.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It also is inconsistent w=
ith
the usage of Switching Capability<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SDH/SONET.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Well hopefully we have a bett=
er
understanding of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; technologies involved than we=
 had
in the past.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think we had a very good
understanding of SDH/SONET then<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; and we have a very good understan=
ding
of OTN now, and in both cases<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the authors saw no requirement to
overload switching capability in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the manner you are suggesting.<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A more extensive quote fr=
om
RFC4202 is the following, which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; seems clear enough to me:=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;In the context of t=
his
document we say that a link is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; connected to a node by an
interface. In the context of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces may have diffe=
rent
switching capabilities. For<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an interface that
connects a given link to a node may<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to switch
individual packets, but it may be able to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; switch channels within an=
 SDH
payload. Interfaces at each end<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need not have t=
he
same switching capabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Interfaces on the same no=
de
need not have the same switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; capabilities.&quot;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this helps clari=
fy
anything...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it clarifies that
switching capabilities is meant to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; describe how a given interface sw=
itches
the information with which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; it is provided. This has nothing =
to do
with the interface's<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message=
-----
From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.=
net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Dr=
ake
Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =
OSPF
OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Issue<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Great. Care to substa=
ntiate
your point?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 11:14 A=
M,
John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I completely disa=
gree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original
Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org]
On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of Lou Berger=
 Sent:
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele
Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN
considerations post IETF 82 (Issue<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Daniele, S=
ince I
raised the point, I guess I need to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; champion it! =
(With
chair hat off.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele said:=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 1:
the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk=
 of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing
hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a quick t=
alk
with the other authors of the ID, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; idea was =
to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the propo=
sal as
it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching
Capability field. (even if the definition of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-=
4
already overloads the meaning of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching=
 capability
field)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really g=
oes to
the interpretation of the intent of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching
Capability Types. So we have a few<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definitions: =
3471
says &quot;the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching tha=
t
should be performed&quot;, 4202 says<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;describ=
es<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; capability of=
 an
interface.&quot; 3945 doesn't really define<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (it<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just referenc=
es
4202), but does equate it with a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;layer&q=
uot;.
While it allows for hierarchy within a &quot;layer&quot;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it also says
hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;between
interface types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I interpre=
t
Switching Capability Types to represent<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even within a
layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the original =
GMPLS
supported technologies (i.e., PSC,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L2SC, TDM<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and FSC), and=
 (b)
is identifiable in the original types<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; plus the<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 thro=
ugh
PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So how does t=
his
apply to our current OTN work?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, the fi=
rst
question to ask relates to (a), and is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk be model=
ed as
a separate layer?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know this h=
as
been a much debated point, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more=
 for the
perspective of switching layers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layers (i.e.,=
 they
are clearly the same technology but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; granularity o=
f
swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the s=
econd
question to ask relates to (b), and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is does<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk represen=
t a
different level of hierarchy?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I see this as
simply yes, and no different than what has<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with
Ethernet or, even if we do continue to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN as<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single layer,=
 no
different than PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's also =
a
minor processing efficiency gained by<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this approach=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that su=
pport
a smaller set of ODUks than are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; IGP.<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Based on all =
this,
I believe different ODUk's should use<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different Swi=
tching
Types. In particular, I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that eith=
er the
framework or info documents identify<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a per-OT=
Uk
Switching Capability Types will be used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to support G.=
709v3.
(2) that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Cap=
 field
value for each ODUk, and that it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; state that th=
e
value corresponding to the signal type<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; identified in=
 the
#stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; any other cha=
nges
to the current definition of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (3) that
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to ma=
tch
above.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To keep think=
s
generic, we probably should use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switc=
hing
Capability Types, but this is a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments?<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PS While the =
above
is an important change, it doesn't<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significantly<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impact encodi=
ng and
won't take much text to make the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actual<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a
discussion that can continue until <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D=
"on">Paris</st1:place></st1:City>
if we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; really<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; face to face =
to
resolve the discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/2011=
 1:18
PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; During th=
e OTN
OSPF draft presentation at the IETF<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meeting i=
n<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <st1:City w:st=3D"on"=
><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">Taipei</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; comments =
were
raised with respect to the following<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues:<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 1=
:
Using different switching caps for each ODU<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; type<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 2=
: Type
2 (unres bandwidth for variable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; container=
s) and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX LSP
bandwidth foe variable containers always used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in tandem=
?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 1:
the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk=
 of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing
hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; quick tal=
k with
the other authors of the ID, the idea<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposal =
as it
would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f the
Switching Capability field. (even if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the defin=
ition
of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f the
switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 2: it
is analyzed in section 5.3 of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft (ve=
rsion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm copyi=
ng it
below for your convenience<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In this e=
xample
the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown. In=
 case
of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be
advertised but in some cases also information<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about the=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserve=
d
bandwidth could be useful. The amount of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
 does
not give a clear indication of how many<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can be se=
t up
either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it giv=
es no
information about the spatial<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocatio=
n of
the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An indica=
tion
of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could be<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; during th=
e path
computation process, as shown in the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example.
Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with MAX<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth=
 equal
to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserve=
d<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth=
 are
available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 1=
0 GBps
each, have to be restored, for sure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only one<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; restored =
along
Link B and it is probable (but not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) tha=
t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them can =
be
restored along Link A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early pro=
posal
was to have, in the case of variable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; container=
s
advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
 TLV
(Type 3)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mandatory=
 piece
of information and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwdth=
 TLV<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Type<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as an opt=
ional
piece of information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The comme=
nt
received is that optional information can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to
interworking issues and the counter proposal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to ha=
ve
both<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pieces<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; informati=
on as
mandatory and, as a consequence, merge<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the two<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; into<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a single =
one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We'd like=
 to
hear the opinion of the WG on both issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; before<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proceeding<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with any
modification to the document.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *DANIELE
CECCARELLI * *System &amp; Technology - DU IP &amp;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Broadband=
*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Via L.Cal=
da, 5 <st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Genova</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:=
st=3D"on">Italy</st1:country-region></st1:place>
Phone +390106002512<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <st1:plac=
e
w:st=3D"on">Mobile</st1:place> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.co=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
www.ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;http://www.ericsson.com/&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This
Communication is Confidential. We only send and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receive<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; email<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the basis=
 of
the term set out at<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; www.ericsson.com/email_discla=
imer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;
_______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; ___________________________________________=
____<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3D"#606420"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Excellent.&nbsp; =
Jonathan, check this out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5=
pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:sol=
id #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTT=
I, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:<=
/b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:=
</b> CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] </span>=
<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=
=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>John, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Just to emphasize what yo=
u've already well mentioned about multi-layer in OTN.<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>This is what =
reports the Recommendation representing Optical Transport Network architect=
ure , G.872.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>.....<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&quot;Since the resources that support these topologica=
l components support a heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, <span style=3D'backg=
round:yellow'>the ODU layer is modelled as a single layer network</span> th=
at is independent of bit-rate.&nbsp; The ODU bit-rate is a parameter that a=
llows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU link connection to be =
determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sergio<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DIT>---=
--Messaggio originale-----<br>Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-boun=
ces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake<br>Inviato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembr=
e 2011 16.14<br>A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai<br>Cc: CCAMP<br>Oggetto: Re: [=
CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","s=
ans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DIT>: R: OSPF OTN considerations=
 post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Julien,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I don't know how m=
any times we want to go over this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>As you might expect, Switching C=
apability enables path computation to be aware of regions in which there ar=
e different switching capabilities.&nbsp; It was never intended to delineat=
e sub-regions (layers) within those regions.&nbsp; In particular, nowhere i=
n the entire body of the Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability m=
entioned.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which=
, along with OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with which w=
e have to deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastrich=
t, it was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of mult=
i-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Could we please agree that=
 PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be attributed to inexperience and just =
erase it from our collective memory?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; F=
rom: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject=
: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","s=
ans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Fa=
tai.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - we are dealing with the ODUk l=
ayers within the OTN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; technology/=
regions;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - the ISCD is an approp=
riate place to put the information on ODUk<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; capabilities of nodes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - using the term &quot;extension&qu=
ot; to refer to encoding the hierarchy level<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the SC field: th=
e _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (e.g. 4203);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already=
 have 2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; options on the table for=
 the ISCD in IGPs:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a) multiple S=
C values,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap =
&amp; Signal Type (&amp; Encoding Type as well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Fir=
st of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reflect the notion of region: xSC acrony=
ms may map to &quot;regions&quot;, but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a sin=
gle<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; Then you propose to use the &quot;[OTN] Signal Type&quot;: as oppose=
d to a)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; this is a new extension, created in<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emp=
hasized by Kireeti, the SC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; field=
 should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessaril=
y specifying a full list).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The I=
-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; SC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk: even<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; for pruning, a CSFP implementati=
on needs to parse some OTN-specific<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the &quot;old-fashion&quot; approach which rep=
resent the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hierarchy information=
 at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; PBB-TE (RFC =
6060).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangf=
atai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; H=
i Julien,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I agree the requirement that you menti=
oned, but it can be resovled<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; without extending Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is k=
nown that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. =
In RFC5212, it says:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type v=
alue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-div=
ided into smaller-granularity component<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; networks based on &quot;data plane switching layers&quot;.&nbsp; Th=
e&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Switching Capa=
bility Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],&nbsp; identifying the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; interface switching capability (ISC), the encodin=
g type, and the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; switching bandwi=
dth granularity, enables the characterization of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; associated layers.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this =
document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprisi=
ng multiple data plane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp=
; switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and c=
ontrolled by a single GMPLS control plane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs.=
 A multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region netw=
ork (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at least<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; two different switching types (e.g., PSC=
 and TDM), either hosted on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp; the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; single GMPLS control pla=
ne instance.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to d=
ifferentiate the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; different &quot=
;layers&quot;; for MLN case (same ISC with different granularity),<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we can use Switching Cap &amp; Signal Ty=
pe (&amp; Encoding Type as well) to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; differentiate the different granularity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So,=
 come back to your question, it can be achived by using Switching<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Sign=
al Type to identify the granularity requested<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carr=
ied in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_I=
NFO sub-object) .<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Lastly, in my opinion, if ther=
e is no issue based on the existing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I do=
n't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we need to extend Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&n=
bsp; ________________________________________ <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Juli=
en Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meu=
ric@orange.com] <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",=
"sans-serif"'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=D4=C2</span=
>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=
=C8=D5</span> 0:08 <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode M=
S","sans-serif"'>=B5=BD</span>: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP;=
 pce@ietf.org <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","s=
ans-serif"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; post<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi F=
atai.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer=
-ext, I believe you will<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nb=
sp; agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; would make the use of ob=
jects including a Switching Cap field rather<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource=
 description,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to prec=
isely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&=
nbsp; adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computa=
tions; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER=
_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; server layer within the ERO.<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching =
Cap<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; value would take =
some capabilities away? What would you suggest so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhan=
gfatai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I agree that there is no need to ove=
rload Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors=
, we shared completely your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks=
 Sergio and Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Por=
tfolio<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 039686=
3033<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@al=
catel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt; -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per =
conto di John E Drake Inviato:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Ogge=
tto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF =
OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; like to see what the rest of t=
he WG thinks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----=
 From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; =
[mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Dan=
iele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Using Switching Capabili=
ty to indicate link bandwidth seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ill-considered at best, especially since this informa=
tion is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carrie=
d in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; significantly overloads to intended meaning o=
f Switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Ca=
pability.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I agree with the point on =
BW, but my point was related to the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer&amp;hierarchy implications of the different ODUk va=
lues. I'd<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think th=
at using values that are TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n should make this<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; clear and remove any ambiguity re=
lated to bandwidth. It is also<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt; completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a=
 good idea and further<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 asserting that there is &quot;ambiguity related to bandwidth', without<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; providing any evidence.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To the best of my knowledge no one ever impl=
emented or deployed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; th=
e PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; out what it meant. To quote fro=
m you, below, &quot;Well hopefully we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; have a better understanding of the technologies involved th=
an we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; had in the past.=
&quot;. I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Ca=
pability<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SD=
H/SONET.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Well hopefully we have a be=
tter understanding of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt; technologies involved than we had in the past.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; and we have a very goo=
d understanding of OTN now, and in both cases<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the authors saw no requirement to overload switchin=
g capability in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the ma=
nner you are suggesting.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the =
following, which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t; seems clear enough to me:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 &quot;In the context of this document we say that a link is<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; connected to a node by an in=
terface. In the context of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces may have different switching capabilities. Fo=
r<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an i=
nterface that connects a given link to a node may<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to switch individual packet=
s, but it may be able to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt; switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need n=
ot have the same switching capabilities.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Interfaces on the same node need not have the sa=
me switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; c=
apabilities.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this=
 helps clarify anything...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it c=
larifies that switching capabilities is meant to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; describe how a given interface switches the info=
rmation with which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; it =
is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- From:=
 Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Dra=
ke Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IE=
TF 82<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Iss=
ue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Great. Care to substantiate yo=
ur point?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2=
011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I completely disagree.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- Fro=
m: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of Lou Berger Sent: W=
ednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject:=
 Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Daniele, Since I raised th=
e point, I guess I need to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; champion it! (With chair hat off.)<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele said:<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WR=
T issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk of<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiea=
rachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a quick talk with th=
e other authors of the ID, the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; idea was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the proposal as it would lead t=
o an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Capability field. (even if the d=
efinition of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching =
capability field)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switchi=
ng Capability Types. So we have a few<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definitions: 3471 says &quot;the<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching that should be per=
formed&quot;, 4202 says<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;describes<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; capability of an interface.&quot; 3945 doesn't =
really define<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t; (it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; just references 4202), but does equate it with a<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;layer&quot;. Whil=
e it allows for hierarchy within a &quot;layer&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it also says hierarchy<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;between =
interface types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching=
/technology layers and (b) different levels of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even within a layer. I think (a) is i=
dentifiable in the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
 definition<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L2SC, TDM<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and FSC), and (b) is ide=
ntifiable in the original types<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; plus the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 through PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So how does this =
apply to our current OTN work?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, the first question to ask relates to (a),=
 and is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; should<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OD=
Uk be modeled as a separate layer?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know this has been a much debated point, a=
nd it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more for the perspective of switching layers<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layer=
s (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; granularity of swicthing.) So th=
is is a yes for me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is doe=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk represen=
t a different level of hierarchy?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I see this as simply yes, and no different th=
an what has<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN a=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single layer, no=
 different than PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's also a minor processing efficiency g=
ained by<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; this approach<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; within<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; IGP.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Based on all this, I =
believe different ODUk's should use<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different Switching Types. In particular,=
 I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that either the framework or info documents identify<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a=
 per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to support G.709v3. (2) tha=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Cap field val=
ue for each ODUk, and that it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; state that the value corresponding to the signa=
l type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; identified in the #stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; any other cha=
nges to the current definition of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-sign=
aling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to match above.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To keep thinks generic, we probably shoul=
d use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comm=
ents?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significantly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impact encoding and won'=
t take much text to make the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actual<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reall=
y<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; face to face to resol=
ve the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meeting in<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Taipei<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; c=
omments were raised with respect to the following<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues:<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue=
 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 2: Type =
2 (unres bandwidth for variable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers) and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX LSP bandwidth foe varia=
ble containers always used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in tandem?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 1: the proposal w=
as to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capa=
bility field of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the =
idea<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reje=
ct<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of the =
Switching Capability field. (even if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already=
 overloads the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of the switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT iss=
ue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft (version<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm copying it below for y=
our convenience<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt=
;ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown=
. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be ad=
vertised but in some cases also information<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about the<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved band=
width could be useful. The amount of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth does not give a clear indicatio=
n of how many<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it gives no information about the spatial<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocati=
on of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An indication of the amount of Unreserved ban=
dwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; could be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; during the path computation process, as shown in=
 the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; following<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
with MAX<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L=
SP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 10 G=
Bps each, have to be restored, for sure<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only one<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; restored along Link B and it is=
 probable (but not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them can be restored along Link A.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early pro=
posal was to have, in the case of variable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers advertisements (i.e=
. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth TLV (Type 3)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mandatory piece of information =
and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwdth TLV<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as an optional piece of information.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
The comment received is that optional information can<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to interworkin=
g issues and the counter proposal<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to have both<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pieces<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; information as manda=
tory and, as a consequence, merge<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; into<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a single one.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We'd like to hea=
r the opinion of the WG on both issues<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; before<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proceeding<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with any modific=
ation to the document.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *DANIELE=
 CECCARELLI * *System &amp; Technology - DU IP &amp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Broadband*<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Via=
 L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mobile +393346725750 daniel=
e.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; www.ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;http://www.erics=
son.com/&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This Communication is Confidential. We only send and<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; r=
eceive<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; email<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the basis =
of the term set out at<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt; www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;http://www.ericsson.com/email_=
disclaimer&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ___________________=
____________________________ CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; ______________________=
_________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>_____________________________=
__________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>CCAMP mailing list=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p>=
</div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517B62EMBX01HQjnprn_--

From Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com  Tue Dec 20 08:13:08 2011
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From: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:12:48 -0600
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References: <B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA2293E672A9@ESESSCMS0360.eemea.ericsson.se> <4ED64A32.8060707@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CA99D@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4ED65D2D.2040400@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CADAB@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4ED69B7D.409@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A4B54CAEE5@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D81918795F@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF825CB0593@SZXEML520-MBX.china.huawei.com> <4EDE3E19.6010303@orange.com> <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF825CC18AB@SZXEML520-MBS.china.huawei.com> <4EF0A18F.4080000@orange.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517AFD@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D819BA8E25@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517B62@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">While each ODU layer is a single layer net=
work, how the ODUs interact with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an O=
DU1) generates a multi-layer network.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This detail is especially important when d=
ealing with multi-stage multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND deal=
ing with different adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G
 TS)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last ye=
ar pointing these details out (LS221).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Excellent.&nbsp; Jonathan, check this out.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> BELOTTI,=
 SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric<br>
<b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;SimSun&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">John, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Just to emphasize what you've already well mentio=
ned about multi-layer in OTN.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">This is what reports the Recommendation represent=
ing Optical Transport Network architecture , G.872.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">.....<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&quot;Since the resources that support these topo=
logical components support a heterogeneous assembly of ODUs,
<span style=3D"background:yellow">the ODU layer is modelled as a single lay=
er network</span> that is independent of bit-rate.&nbsp; The ODU bit-rate i=
s a parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU li=
nk connection to be determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Sergio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"IT">-----Messaggio originale-----<b=
r>
Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Joh=
n E Drake<br>
Inviato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 16.14<br>
A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai<br>
Cc: CCAMP<br>
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot=
;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span la=
ng=3D"IT">: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Julien,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I don't know how many times we want to go over th=
is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">As you might expect, Switching Capability enables=
 path computation to be aware of regions in which there are different switc=
hing capabilities.&nbsp; It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (la=
yers) within those regions.&nbsp; In particular,
 nowhere in the entire body of the Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this ca=
pability mentioned.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SON=
ET which, along with OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with=
 which we have to deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to M=
aastricht, it was stated that the
 ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of multi-layer in its modeling o=
f OTN networks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberrat=
ion that can be attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our colle=
ctive memory?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Of Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; To: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN" st=
yle=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; About the IGP, I believe we agree on several=
 things:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within=
 the OTN<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; technology/regions;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put th=
e information on ODUk<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; capabilities of nodes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - using the term &quot;extension&quot; to re=
fer to encoding the hierarchy level<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] a=
re part of existing RFCs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (e.g. 4203);<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; - selecting the SC field as an information o=
n the hierarchy level.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; This leaves us with an open discussion on th=
e latter. We already have 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; a) multiple SC values,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&am=
p; Encoding Type as well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; First of all, I do not believe the original =
intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms m=
ay map to &quot;regions&quot;, but<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; from a codepoint perspective we can have sev=
eral values behind a single<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Then you propose to use the &quot;[OTN] Sign=
al Type&quot;: as opposed to a)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; this is a new extension, created in<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As em=
phasized by Kireeti, the SC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; field should allow to constrain path computa=
tion into a range or a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessari=
ly specifying a full list).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the w=
hole OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; SC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; field is useless to prune the network graph =
when routing an ODUk: even<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to =
parse some OTN-specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the &quot;old-fashi=
on&quot; approach which represent the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; hierarchy information at a higher level in t=
he IGP, like it was done<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; PBB-TE (RFC 6060).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6crit=
 :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Julien,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I agree the requirement that you =
mentioned, but it can be resovled<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without extending Switching Cap.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is known that there are two ca=
ses described in RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; RFC5339, one is MRN, another one =
is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Thus, a control plane region, identified by =
its switching type value<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller=
-granularity component<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; networks based on &quot;data plane switching=
 layers&quot;.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4=
202],&nbsp; identifying the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; interface switching capability (ISC), the en=
coding type, and the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; switching bandwidth granularity, enables the=
 characterization of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; associated layers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this document, we define a mul=
ti-layer network (MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Traffic Engineering (TE) domain c=
omprising multiple data plane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; switching layers either of the sa=
me ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlle=
d by a single GMPLS control plane<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instance. We further define a par=
ticular case of MLNs. A multi-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region network (MRN) is defined a=
s a TE domain supporting at least<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; two different switching types (e.=
g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the same device or on different o=
nes, and under the control of a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; single GMPLS control plane instan=
ce.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switchin=
g Cap to differentiate the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; different &quot;layers&quot;; for MLN case (=
same ISC with different granularity),<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; we can use Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (=
&amp; Encoding Type as well) to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; differentiate the different granularity.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So, come back to your question, i=
t can be achived by using Switching<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Signal =
Type to identify the granularity requested<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in OTN networks(e.g., this inform=
ation can be carried in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Lastly, in my opinion, if there i=
s no issue based on the existing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or definition without ex=
tending Switching Cap, I don't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; think<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we need to extend Switching Cap.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; _________________________________=
_______ <span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meuric@orange.com] <span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2011<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C4=EA</span>12<sp=
an lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;">=D4=C2</span>7<span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&q=
uot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=C8=D5</span>
 0:08 <span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=B5=BD</span>: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP; pce@ietf.org <span lang=3D=
"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial Unicode MS&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">
=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; post<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-in=
ter-layer-ext, I believe you will<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; agree on the fact that having a S=
witching Capability per ODUk layer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; would make the use of objects inc=
luding a Switching Cap field rather<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; straightforward and enables a fin=
e-grained resource description,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to pre=
cisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; adaptation requested by a higher =
layer, or to get a clear feedback<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the missing adaptation for unsucc=
essful path computations; -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to =
precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; server layer within the ERO.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you think that summarizing=
 G.709 by a single Switching Cap<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; value would take some capabilitie=
s away? What would you suggest so<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to achieve the same level of deta=
ils in that scenario?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Julien<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a=
 =A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; I agree that there is no need to o=
verload Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- From: c=
camp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On=
 Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors, we shared com=
pletely your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Sergio and Pietro<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System =
Architect Optics Portfolio<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Ital=
y T: &#43;39 0396863033<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Messaggio originale----- Da: =
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Pe=
r conto di John E Drake Inviato:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 30 novembre 2011 22=
.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN consideration=
s post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; Comments inline. I still think thi=
s is a terrible idea and I would<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; like to see what the rest of the W=
G thinks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- Fro=
m: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent=
: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: D=
aniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considera=
tions post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E =
Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Using Switching Capability=
 to indicate link bandwidth seems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ill-considered at best, es=
pecially since this information is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carried in other fields, a=
nd as Daniele noted, it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; significantly overloads to=
 intended meaning of Switching<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Capability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I agree with the point on BW, =
but my point was related to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer&amp;hierarchy implicatio=
ns of the different ODUk values. I'd<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think that using values that a=
re TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n should make this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; clear and remove any ambiguity=
 related to bandwidth. It is also<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; completely consistent with the=
 base GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] You are simply asserting that=
 this is a good idea and further<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; asserting that there is &quot;ambi=
guity related to bandwidth', without<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; providing any evidence.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; To the best of my knowledge no one=
 ever implemented or deployed<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hierarchy, s=
imply because no one could figure<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; out what it meant. To quote from y=
ou, below, &quot;Well hopefully we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; have a better understanding of the=
 technologies involved than we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; had in the past.&quot;. I.e., we s=
hould all understand that PSC-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move=
 on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It also is inconsistent wi=
th the usage of Switching Capability<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SDH/SONET.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Well hopefully we have a bette=
r understanding of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; technologies involved than we =
had in the past.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think we had a very good un=
derstanding of SDH/SONET then<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; and we have a very good understand=
ing of OTN now, and in both cases<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the authors saw no requirement to =
overload switching capability in<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; the manner you are suggesting.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A more extensive quote fro=
m RFC4202 is the following, which<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; seems clear enough to me:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;In the context of th=
is document we say that a link is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; connected to a node by an =
interface. In the context of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces may have differ=
ent switching capabilities. For<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an interface that =
connects a given link to a node may<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to switch indi=
vidual packets, but it may be able to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; switch channels within an =
SDH payload. Interfaces at each end<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need not have th=
e same switching capabilities.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Interfaces on the same nod=
e need not have the same switching<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; capabilities.&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this helps clarif=
y anything...<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it clarifies that swi=
tching capabilities is meant to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; describe how a given interface swi=
tches the information with which<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; it is provided. This has nothing t=
o do with the interface's<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-=
---- From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.n=
et] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Dra=
ke Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] O=
SPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Issue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Great. Care to substan=
tiate your point?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM=
, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I completely disag=
ree.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original =
Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of Lou Berger =
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ce=
ccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN consi=
derations post IETF 82 (Issue<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Daniele, Si=
nce I raised the point, I guess I need to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; champion it! (=
With chair hat off.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele said:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue =
1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk =
of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hie=
arachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a quick ta=
lk with the other authors of the ID, the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; idea was t=
o<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the propos=
al as it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching =
Capability field. (even if the definition of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-4=
 already overloads the meaning of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching =
capability field)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really go=
es to the interpretation of the intent of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Capa=
bility Types. So we have a few<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definitions: 3=
471 says &quot;the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching that=
 should be performed&quot;, 4202 says<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;describe=
s<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; capability of =
an interface.&quot; 3945 doesn't really define<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just reference=
s 4202), but does equate it with a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;layer&qu=
ot;. While it allows for hierarchy within a &quot;layer&quot;<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it also says h=
ierarchy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;between =
interface types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I interpret=
 Switching Capability Types to represent<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching/tech=
nology layers and (b) different levels of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even within a =
layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the original G=
MPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L2SC, TDM<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and FSC), and =
(b) is identifiable in the original types<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; plus the<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 throu=
gh PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So how does th=
is apply to our current OTN work?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, the fir=
st question to ask relates to (a), and is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk be modele=
d as a separate layer?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know this ha=
s been a much debated point, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more =
for the perspective of switching layers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layers (i.e., =
they are clearly the same technology but<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; granularity of=
 swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the se=
cond question to ask relates to (b), and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is does<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk represent=
 a different level of hierarchy?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I see this as =
simply yes, and no different than what has<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with =
Ethernet or, even if we do continue to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN as<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single layer, =
no different than PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's also a=
 minor processing efficiency gained by<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this approach<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that sup=
port a smaller set of ODUks than are<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; within<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; IGP.<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Based on all t=
his, I believe different ODUk's should use<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different Swit=
ching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that eithe=
r the framework or info documents identify<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a per-OTU=
k Switching Capability Types will be used<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to support G.7=
09v3. (2) that<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft-ietf-cca=
mp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Cap =
field value for each ODUk, and that it<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; state that the=
 value corresponding to the signal type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; identified in =
the #stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; any other chan=
ges to the current definition of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (3) that draft=
-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to mat=
ch above.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To keep thinks=
 generic, we probably should use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switch=
ing Capability Types, but this is a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments?<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PS While the a=
bove is an important change, it doesn't<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significantly<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impact encodin=
g and won't take much text to make the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actual<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a disc=
ussion that can continue until Paris if we<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; really<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; face to face t=
o resolve the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/2011 =
1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; During the=
 OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meeting in=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Taipei<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; comments w=
ere raised with respect to the following<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues:<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 1:=
 Using different switching caps for each ODU<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; type<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 2:=
 Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers=
) and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX LSP b=
andwidth foe variable containers always used<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in tandem?=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue =
1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk =
of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hie=
arachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; quick talk=
 with the other authors of the ID, the idea<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposal a=
s it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of=
 the Switching Capability field. (even if<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the defini=
tion of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of=
 the switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue =
2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft (ver=
sion<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm copyin=
g it below for your convenience<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In this ex=
ample the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown. In =
case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be adve=
rtised but in some cases also information<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about the<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved=
 bandwidth could be useful. The amount of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth =
does not give a clear indication of how many<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can be set=
 up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it give=
s no information about the spatial<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocation=
 of the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An indicat=
ion of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could be<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; during the=
 path computation process, as shown in the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example. S=
upposing there are two TE-links (A and B)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with MAX<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth =
equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth =
are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 10=
 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only one<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; can<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; restored a=
long Link B and it is probable (but not<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) that=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them can b=
e restored along Link A.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early prop=
osal was to have, in the case of variable<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers=
 advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth =
TLV (Type 3)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mandatory =
piece of information and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwdth =
TLV<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Type<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as an opti=
onal piece of information.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The commen=
t received is that optional information can<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to in=
terworking issues and the counter proposal<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to hav=
e both<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pieces<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; informatio=
n as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the two<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; into<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a single o=
ne.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We'd like =
to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; before<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proceeding<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with any m=
odification to the document.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *DANIELE C=
ECCARELLI * *System &amp; Technology - DU IP &amp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Broadband*=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Via L.Cald=
a, 5 Genova, Italy Phone &#43;390106002512<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Mobile &#4=
3;393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; www.ericss=
on.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;http:/=
/www.ericsson.com/&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This Commu=
nication is Confidential. We only send and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receive<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; email<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the basis =
of the term set out at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; www.ericsson.com/email_disclai=
mer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;http:/=
/www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; __________________________________=
_____________ CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; ____________________________________________=
___<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, "BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)" <sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com>
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3D"#606420"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jonathan,<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think what yo=
u stated, below, is inconsistent with what Sergio quoted;&nbsp; the quote s=
tates that the set of interfaces in a given IGP instance, regardless of the=
 rate individual interfaces, is modeled as a single layer network.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As this poin=
t I am a bystander =A8C please ask Sergio for any G.872 related information=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Th=
anks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>John <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div s=
tyle=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'=
><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0p=
t 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonatha=
n.Sadler@tellabs.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:13 AM<b=
r><b>To:</b> John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br>=
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF =
82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","s=
ans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri",=
"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>While each ODU layer is a single layer network,=
 how the ODUs interact with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) =
generates a multi-layer network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This detail is especially important when deali=
ng with multi-stage multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing =
with different adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>CCAMP did get a liai=
son from ITU-T last year pointing these details out (LS221).<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jonathan Sadler<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John E Drake<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, =
2011 10:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br=
><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF=
 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Excellent.&nbsp; Jonathan, check this out.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibr=
i","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>J=
ohn&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
 style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0p=
t'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.=
0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:=
sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2=
011 7:59 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Jul=
ien Meuric<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN consideratio=
ns post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMso=
Normal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John, <o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned =
about multi-layer in OTN.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>This is what reports the Recommendation r=
epresenting Optical Transport Network architecture , G.872.<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>.....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&quot;Si=
nce the resources that support these topological components support a heter=
ogeneous assembly of ODUs, <span style=3D'background:yellow'>the ODU layer =
is modelled as a single layer network</span> that is independent of bit-rat=
e.&nbsp; The ODU bit-rate is a parameter that allows the number of Tributar=
y Slots (TS) for the ODU link connection to be determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Sergio<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DIT>-----Messaggio originale-----<b=
r>Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di J=
ohn E Drake<br>Inviato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 16.14<br>A: Julien Me=
uric; Zhangfatai<br>Cc: CCAMP<br>Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZ=
H-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</sp=
an><span lang=3DIT>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>Julien,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>I don't know how many times we want to go over=
 this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>As you might expect, Switching Capability enables path comp=
utation to be aware of regions in which there are different switching capab=
ilities.&nbsp; It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) with=
in those regions.&nbsp; In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the Mu=
lti-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Further, =
it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which, along with OTN, is the be=
st example of a multi-layer network with which we have to deal and the last=
 time we had this discussion, prior to Maastricht, it was stated that the I=
TU has deprecated the use of the concept of multi-layer in its modeling of =
OTN networks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration =
that can be attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collectiv=
e memory?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message--=
---<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
 [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; Of Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent=
: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; To: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D=
ZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</s=
pan>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; About=
 the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; technology/regions;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the info=
rmation on ODUk<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; capabilities of =
nodes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; - using the term &quot;extension&quot; to refer to encoding th=
e hierarchy level<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; in<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] =
are part of existing RFCs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (e.g. =
4203);<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - selecting the SC field =
as an information on the hierarchy level.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This leaves us w=
ith an open discussion on the latter. We already have 2<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a) multiple SC values,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&amp; En=
coding Type as well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; First of all, I do not believe=
 the original intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to &quot;regions=
&quot;, but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; from a codepoint per=
spective we can have several values behind a single<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Then you propose to=
 use the &quot;[OTN] Signal Type&quot;: as opposed to a)<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
this is a new extension, created in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the SC=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; field should allow to constrain=
 path computation into a range or a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full list).=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-T=
DM) for the whole OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; SC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; field is useless to pr=
une the network graph when routing an ODUk: even<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN=
-specific<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I pref=
er the &quot;old-fashion&quot; approach which represent the<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; hierarchy information at a higher level in the =
IGP, like it was done<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; for<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; PBB-TE (RFC 6060).<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Re=
gards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Julien,<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt;&nbsp; I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be resovl=
ed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without extending =
Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is known that there are two ca=
ses described in RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thus, a control p=
lane region, identified by its switching type value<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granulari=
ty component<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; networks based on &=
quot;data plane switching layers&quot;.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [R=
FC4202],&nbsp; identifying the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; i=
nterface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; switching bandwidth granularity, enables th=
e characterization of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; associ=
ated layers.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this document, we define a multi=
-layer network (MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; switching layers either o=
f the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS=
 control plane<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instan=
ce. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region network (MRN) is defined as a T=
E domain supporting at least<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the same device or o=
n different ones, and under the control of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; single GMPLS control plane instance.<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Theref=
ore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate the<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; different &quot;layers&quot;; for MLN case=
 (same ISC with different granularity),<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; we can use Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&amp; Encoding Type as =
well) to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; differentiate the diffe=
rent granularity.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So, come back to your question=
, it can be achived by using Switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Signal Type to identify the gra=
nularity requested<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in=
 OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the =
existing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or =
definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&=
nbsp; we need to extend Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fa=
tai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; ______________________=
__________________ <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode M=
S","sans-serif"'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meuric@orange.com] <span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=
=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Uni=
code MS","sans-serif"'>=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=D4=C2</span>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=C8=D5</span> 0:08 <span l=
ang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B5=BD</s=
pan>: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP; pce@ietf.org <span lang=
=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2=
</span>: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; post<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t;&nbsp; As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; agree on the fact th=
at having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; would make the use of objects including a Switch=
ing Cap field rather<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type =
of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; adaptation request=
ed by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; t=
he missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to pre=
cisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp; server layer within the ERO.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you t=
hink that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; value would take some capabilities away? W=
hat would you suggest so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; as<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to achieve the same level=
 of details in that scenario?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Ori=
ginal Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELO=
TTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors, we shared completely yo=
ur thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Sergio and Pietro<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCA=
TEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Messaggio origin=
ale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inv=
iato:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 3=
0 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post I=
ETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Comments inline. I still =
think this is a terrible idea and I would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt; like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=
 Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Su=
bject:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP]=
 OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John=
,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; O=
n 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Using Switching Capability to indicate link ban=
dwidth seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; i=
ll-considered at best, especially since this information is<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carried in other fields, and =
as Daniele noted, it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt; significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Capability.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I agree with the point on BW, but my point was re=
lated to the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer=
&amp;hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think that using values that ar=
e TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n should make this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It =
is also<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; completely=
 consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; asserting that there =
is &quot;ambiguity related to bandwidth', without<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; providing any evidence.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hi=
erarchy, simply because no one could figure<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt; out what it meant. To quote from you, below, &quot;We=
ll hopefully we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; have a=
 better understanding of the technologies involved than we<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; had in the past.&quot;. I.e., we shoul=
d all understand that PSC-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I=
t also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SDH/SONET.<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Well hopefully we have a better understanding of =
the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; technologies i=
nvolved than we had in the past.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I thin=
k we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; and we have a very good understanding of OTN=
 now, and in both cases<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the manner you are suggestin=
g.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt; A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; seems clear enough =
to me:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;In the context =
of this document we say that a link is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; connected to a node by an interface. In the contex=
t of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; int=
erfaces may have different switching capabilities. For<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an interface that connects=
 a given link to a node may<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able =
to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; switch chan=
nels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need not have the same swi=
tching capabilities.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt; Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; capabilities.&quot;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this helps clarify anyth=
ing...<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it clarifies that switch=
ing capabilities is meant to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; describe how a given interface switches the information with which<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; it is provided. This ha=
s nothing to do with the interface's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@la=
bn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Cecca=
relli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Issue<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Great. Care to substantiate your point?<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E=
 Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; I completely disagree.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30,=
 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN co=
nsiderations post IETF 82 (Issue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I nee=
d to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; champion it! (With chair hat off.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 1: the proposa=
l was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiearachy in the Switching C=
apability field of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a quick talk with the other authors of the ID,=
 the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; idea was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
meaning of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-4 =
already overloads the meaning of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching capability field)<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really =
goes to the interpretation of the intent of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Capability Types. So we=
 have a few<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; definitions: 3471 says &quot;the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching that should be performed&quot;, 4202 says<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quo=
t;describes<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switch=
ing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; capability of an interface.&quot; 3945 doesn't really define<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (it<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just references 4202)=
, but does equate it with a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;layer&quot;. While it allows for hierarchy =
within a &quot;layer&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it also says hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;between interface types&quot;.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I in=
terpret Switching Capability Types to represent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching/technology layers and (b)=
 different levels of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the original GMPLS supp=
orted technologies (i.e., PSC,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L2SC, TDM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original t=
ypes<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; plus the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; definition<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 through PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So how does this apply to our current OTN wo=
rk?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk be modeled as a separate=
 layer?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more=
 for the perspective of switching layers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layers (i.e., they are clearly t=
he same technology but<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the =
second question to ask relates to (b), and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is does<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk represent a different level of hiera=
rchy?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with E=
thernet or, even if we do continue to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single layer, no different than PSC-1 -&gt; =
PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this approach<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that supp=
ort a smaller set of ODUks than are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; IGP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's sho=
uld use<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that eithe=
r the framework or info documents identify<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a per-OTUk Switching Capabili=
ty Types will be used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to support G.709v3. (2) that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-=
g709v3 define a different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that i=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
state that the value corresponding to the signal type<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; identified in the #stag=
es=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; any other changes to the current definiti=
on of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to mat=
ch above.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switc=
hing Capability Types, but this is a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PS While the above is an=
 important change, it doesn't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt; significantly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impact encoding and won't take much text to make th=
e<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
actual<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a di=
scussion that can continue until Paris if we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; really<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; face to face to resolve the discussion.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/201=
1 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; During the OTN O=
SPF draft presentation at the IETF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meeting in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Taipei<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; comments were raised with =
respect to the following<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 1: Using different switc=
hing caps for each ODU<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for va=
riable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; containers) and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always use=
d<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; in tandem?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; most ODUk of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISC=
D.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposal as it wou=
ld lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of the Switching Capability fiel=
d. (even if<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning =
of the switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in s=
ection 5.3 of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft (version<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm copying it below for your convenience<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I=
n this example the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown. In case of ODUflex adve=
rtisement the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be advertised but in some case=
s also information<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. Th=
e amount of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unrese=
rved<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can=
 be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it=
 gives no information about the spatial<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocation of the<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could be<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; during the path computation process, as shown in the<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; exam=
ple. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with MAX<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth equal to=
 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth are available o=
n Link A, 10Gbps on Link B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be resto=
red, for sure<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only one<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; restored along Link B and it is probable (but not<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) t=
hat<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them =
can be restored along Link A.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early proposal was to have, in the ca=
se of variable<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ba=
ndwidth TLV (Type 3)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwd=
th TLV<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Ty=
pe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; as an optional piece of information.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The comment received is that=
 optional information can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to interworking issues and the counter pro=
posal<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; was to have both<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; pieces<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; information as mandatory and, as a consequence, me=
rge<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; the two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; i=
nto<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; a single one.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
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Jonathan,
	This point is precisely (one of) the key reasons I put forward the
proposal on multiple SC types.

Lou

On 12/20/2011 11:12 AM, Sadler, Jonathan B. wrote:
> John,
> 
>  
> 
> While each ODU layer is a single layer network, how the ODUs interact
> with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a
> multi-layer network.
> 
>  
> 
> This detail is especially important when dealing with multi-stage
> multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with different
> adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)
> 
>  
> 
> CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last year pointing these details out
> (LS221).
> 
>  
> 
> Jonathan Sadler
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *John E Drake
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM
> *To:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
> *Cc:* CCAMP
> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> (Issue 1/2)
> 
>  
> 
> Sergio,
> 
>  
> 
> Excellent.  Jonathan, check this out.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> John 
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM
> *To:* John E Drake
> *Cc:* CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric
> *Subject:* R: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> (Issue 1/2)
> 
>  
> 
> John,
> 
> Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned about multi-layer
> in OTN.
> 
>  
> 
> This is what reports the Recommendation representing Optical Transport
> Network architecture , G.872.
> 
> .....
> 
> "Since the resources that support these topological components support a
> heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, the ODU layer is modelled as a single
> layer network that is independent of bit-rate.  The ODU bit-rate is a
> parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU
> link connection to be determined."
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> Sergio
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di
> John E Drake
> Inviato: marted¨¬ 20 dicembre 2011 16.14
> A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai
> Cc: CCAMP
> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> (Issue 1/2)
> 
>  
> 
> Julien,
> 
>  
> 
> I don't know how many times we want to go over this.
> 
>  
> 
> As you might expect, Switching Capability enables path computation to be
> aware of regions in which there are different switching capabilities. 
> It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) within those
> regions.  In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the
> Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.
> 
>  
> 
> Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which, along with
> OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with which we have to
> deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastricht, it
> was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of
> multi-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.
> 
>  
> 
> Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be
> attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collective memory?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> John
> 
>  
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
> 
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> 
>> Of Julien Meuric
> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM
> 
>> To: Zhangfatai
> 
>> Cc: CCAMP
> 
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> 
>> (Issue 1/2)
> 
>> 
> 
>> Hi Fatai.
> 
>> 
> 
>> About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
> 
>> - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN
> 
>> technology/regions;
> 
>> - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk
> 
>> capabilities of nodes.
> 
>> 
> 
>> What we disagree on:
> 
>> - using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy level
> 
>> in
> 
>> the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs
> 
>> (e.g. 4203);
> 
>> - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.
> 
>> 
> 
>> This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already have 2
> 
>> options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
> 
>> a) multiple SC values,
> 
>> b)"Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)".
> 
>> 
> 
>> First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was to
> 
>> reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions", but
> 
>> from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a single
> 
>> xSC (e.g. x=P).
> 
>> 
> 
>> Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a)
> 
>> above,
> 
>> this is a new extension, created in
> 
>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the SC
> 
>> field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a
> 
>> sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full list).
> 
>> The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means the
> 
>> SC
> 
>> field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk: even
> 
>> for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific
> 
>> sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which represent the
> 
>> hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done
> 
>> for
> 
>> PBB-TE (RFC 6060).
> 
>> 
> 
>> Regards,
> 
>> 
> 
>> Julien
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
> 
>> >  Hi Julien,
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be resovled
> 
>> >  without extending Switching Cap.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
> 
>> >  RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
> 
>> >
> 
>> =======================================================================
> 
>> ========
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type value
> 
>> (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component
> 
>> networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface
> 
>> Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the
> 
>> interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the
> 
>> switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of the
> 
>> associated layers.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
> 
>> >  Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
> 
>> >  switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC
> 
>> >  (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control plane
> 
>> >  instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
> 
>> >  region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at least
> 
>> >  two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on
> 
>> >  the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
> 
>> >  single GMPLS control plane instance.
> 
>> >
> 
>> =======================================================================
> 
>> ==============
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate the
> 
>> different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different granularity),
> 
>> we can use Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well) to
> 
>> differentiate the different granularity.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using Switching
> 
>> >  Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity requested
> 
>> >  in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
> 
>> >  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing
> 
>> >  mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't
> 
>> think
> 
>> >  we need to extend Switching Cap.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Thanks
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Fatai
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  ________________________________________ ·¢¼þÈË: Julien Meuric
> 
>> >  [julien.meuric@orange.com] ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ7ÈÕ 0:08 µ½: Zhangfatai
> 
>> Cc:
> 
>> >  CCAMP; pce@ietf.org Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations
> 
>> post
> 
>> >  IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Hi Fatai.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will
> 
>> >  agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer
> 
>> >  would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field rather
> 
>> >  straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,
> 
>> e.g.
> 
>> >  in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
> 
>> >  adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback
> 
>> on
> 
>> >  the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
> 
>> >  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
> 
>> >  server layer within the ERO.
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap
> 
>> >  value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest so
> 
>> as
> 
>> >  to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Regards,
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Julien
> 
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>> >  Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
> 
>> > > Hi all,
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > Thanks
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > Fatai
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> 
>> > > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
> 
>> > > (SERGIO)
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > Thanks Sergio and Pietro
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > SERGIO BELOTTI
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
> 
>> > > Evolution
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
> 
>> > > Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> 
>> > > [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inviato:
> 
>> > > mercoled¨¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:
> 
>> > > Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
> 
>> > > like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> 
>> > >> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> 
>> > >> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
> 
>> > >> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> John,
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> see below
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> 
>> > >>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
> 
>> > >>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
> 
>> > >>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
> 
>> > >>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
> 
>> > >>> Capability.
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
> 
>> > >> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
> 
>> > >> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make this
> 
>> > >> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
> 
>> > >> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
> 
>> > >> PSC-1 -> PSC-n.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
> 
>> > > asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
> 
>> > > providing any evidence.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
> 
>> > > the PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
> 
>> > > out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
> 
>> > > have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
> 
>> > > had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
> 
>> > > PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
> 
>> > >>> in SDH/SONET.
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
> 
>> > >> technologies involved than we had in the past.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
> 
>> > > and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases
> 
>> > > the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in
> 
>> > > the manner you are suggesting.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >>>
> 
>> > >>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
> 
>> > >>> seems clear enough to me:
> 
>> > >>>
> 
>> > >>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
> 
>> > >>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
> 
>> > >>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
> 
>> > >>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
> 
>> > >>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able to
> 
>> > >>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
> 
>> > >>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
> 
>> > >>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
> 
>> > >>> capabilities."
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
> 
>> > > describe how a given interface switches the information with which
> 
>> > > it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
> 
>> > > bandwidth.
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > >>
> 
>> > >> Lou
> 
>> > >>>
> 
>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
> 
>> > >>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
> 
>> > >>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
> 
>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
> 
>> > >>>> (Issue
> 
>> > >> 1/2)
> 
>> > >>>>
> 
>> > >>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
> 
>> > >>>>
> 
>> > >>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> 
>> > >>>>> I completely disagree.
> 
>> > >>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> 
>> > >>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> 
>> > >>>> Behalf
> 
>> > >>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
> 
>> > >>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
> 
>> > >>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
> 
>> > >>>> 1/2)
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
> 
>> > >>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> All,
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> Daniele said:
> 
>> > >>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> 
>> > >>>>>>> most ODUk of
> 
>> > >>>> the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the ISCD.
> 
>> > >>>> After
> 
>> > >>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> idea was to
> 
>> > >>>> reject
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> meaning of
> 
>> > >>>> the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
> 
>> > >>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> switching capability field)
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
> 
>> > >>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
> 
>> > >>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
> 
>> > >> type
> 
>> > >>>> of
> 
>> > >>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
> 
>> > >>>>>> "describes
> 
>> > >> switching
> 
>> > >>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
> 
>> > >>>>>> the term
> 
>> > >> (it
> 
>> > >>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
> 
>> > >>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
> 
>> > >>>>>> it also says hierarchy
> 
>> > >> occurs
> 
>> > >>>>>> "between interface types".
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
> 
>> > >>>>>> (a)
> 
>> > >> different
> 
>> > >>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
> 
>> > >>>>>> hierarchy
> 
>> > >> --
> 
>> > >>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
> 
>> > >> definition
> 
>> > >>>> of
> 
>> > >>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
> 
>> > >>>>>> L2SC, TDM
> 
>> > >> LSC,
> 
>> > >>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
> 
>> > >>>>>> plus the
> 
>> > >>>> definition
> 
>> > >>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
> 
>> > >>>>>> should
> 
>> > >> each
> 
>> > >>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
> 
>> > >>>>>> to me that
> 
>> > >>>> they
> 
>> > >>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
> 
>> > >>>>>> than
> 
>> > >>>> technology
> 
>> > >>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
> 
>> > >>>>>> are
> 
>> > >> different
> 
>> > >>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
> 
>> > >>>>>> is does
> 
>> > >> each
> 
>> > >>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
> 
>> > >>>>>> been done
> 
>> > >>>> more
> 
>> > >>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
> 
>> > >>>>>> model OTN as
> 
>> > >> a
> 
>> > >>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
> 
>> > >>>>>> this approach
> 
>> > >>>> for
> 
>> > >>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
> 
>> > >>>>>> advertised
> 
>> > >> within
> 
>> > >>>> an
> 
>> > >>>>>> IGP.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
> 
>> > >>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
> 
>> > >>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
> 
>> > >>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
> 
>> > >>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
> 
>> > >>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
> 
>> > >>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
> 
>> > >>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
> 
>> > >>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
> 
>> > >>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
> 
>> > >>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
> 
>> > >>>>>> updated to match above.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
> 
>> > >>>>>> through TDM-n
> 
>> > >>>> as
> 
>> > >>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
> 
>> > >>>>>> secondary
> 
>> > >>>> discussion.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> Comments?
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> Lou
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
> 
>> > >> significantly
> 
>> > >>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
> 
>> > >>>>>> actual
> 
>> > >> change,
> 
>> > >>>> so
> 
>> > >>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
> 
>> > >>>>>> really
> 
>> > >> need
> 
>> > >>>> a
> 
>> > >>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
> 
>> > >>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
> 
>> > >>>>>>> meeting in
> 
>> > >>>> Taipei
> 
>> > >>>>>> two
> 
>> > >>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
> 
>> > >>>>>>> issues:
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
> 
>> > >>>>>>> type
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
> 
>> > >>>>>>> containers) and
> 
>> > >>>> Type
> 
>> > >>>>>> 3
> 
>> > >>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
> 
>> > >>>>>>> in tandem?
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
> 
>> > >>>>>>> most ODUk of
> 
>> > >>>> the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the ISCD.
> 
>> > >>>> After
> 
>> > >>>>>> a
> 
>> > >>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
> 
>> > >>>>>>> was to
> 
>> > >> reject
> 
>> > >>>>>> the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> draft (version
> 
>> > >> -
> 
>> > >>>>>> 00).
> 
>> > >>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
> 
>> > >> hierarchy
> 
>> > >>>> is
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
> 
>> > >>>>>>> bandwidth
> 
>> > >>>>>> needs
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
> 
>> > >>>>>>> about the
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
> 
>> > >> Unreserved
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
> 
>> > >>>>>>> ODUflex
> 
>> > >>>> LSP
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
> 
>> > >>>>>>> different
> 
>> > >>>>>> rates,
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
> 
>> > >>>>>>> allocation of the
> 
>> > >>>>>> free
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> TSs.
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
> 
>> > >>>>>>> could be
> 
>> > >>>>>> useful
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
> 
>> > >>>>>>> following
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
> 
>> > >>>>>>> with MAX
> 
>> > >>>> LSP
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Unreserved
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
> 
>> > >>>>>>> and 3
> 
>> > >>>> ODUflex
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
> 
>> > >>>>>>> only one
> 
>> > >> can
> 
>> > >>>>>> be
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
> 
>> > >>>>>>> sure) that
> 
>> > >> two
> 
>> > >>>>>> of
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
> 
>> > >>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
> 
>> > >>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
> 
>> > >>>> as
> 
>> > >>>>>> a
> 
>> > >>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
> 
>> > >>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
> 
>> > >>>> (Type
> 
>> > >>>>>> 2)
> 
>> > >>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
> 
>> > >>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
> 
>> > >>>>>>> was to have both
> 
>> > >>>> pieces
> 
>> > >>>>>> of
> 
>> > >>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the two
> 
>> > >> TLVs
> 
>> > >>>>>> into
> 
>> > >>>>>>> a single one.
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
> 
>> > >>>>>>> before
> 
>> > >>>>>> proceeding
> 
>> > >>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Daniele
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Broadband*
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
> 
>> > >>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> 
>> > >>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
> 
>> > >>>>>>> receive
> 
>> > >> email
> 
>> > >>>> on
> 
>> > >>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
> 
>> > >> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
> 
>> > >>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >>>>>>>
> 
>> > >
> 
>> > > _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
> 
>> > > CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> CCAMP mailing list
> 
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
> 
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> CCAMP mailing list
> 
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> 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
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From julien.meuric@orange.com  Tue Dec 20 08:30:56 2011
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Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:30:51 +0100
From: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
Organization: France Telecom
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
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Hi John.

I hear your argument and agree that it is not inconsistent with 
SONET/SDH. My point is that deployments of GMPLS-controlled SONET/SDH 
cover a single granularity of containers (and relevant concatenations), 
thus GMPLS-controlled SONET/SDH is not enough as a starting point to be 
mechanically generalized into OTN (otherwise we would not be arguing).

Regards,

Julien


Le 20/12/2011 16:53, John E Drake a Ã©crit :
> Julien,
>
> I would also like to observe that what we are doing in OTN is exactly the same as we did in SDH/SONET, viz, advertising the types of client LSPs a given interface supports.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of Julien Meuric
>>
>> Hi Fatai.
>>
>> About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
>> - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN
>> technology/regions;
>> - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk
>> capabilities of nodes.
>>
>> What we disagree on:
>> - using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy level
>> in
>> the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs
>> (e.g. 4203);
>> - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.
>>
>> This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already have 2
>> options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
>> a) multiple SC values,
>> b)"Switching Cap&  Signal Type (&  Encoding Type as well)".
>>
>> First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was to
>> reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions", but
>> from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a single
>> xSC (e.g. x=P).
>>
>> Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a)
>> above,
>> this is a new extension, created in
>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the SC
>> field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a
>> sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full list).
>> The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means the
>> SC
>> field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk: even
>> for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific
>> sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which represent the
>> hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done
>> for
>> PBB-TE (RFC 6060).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Julien
>>
>>
>> Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a Ã©crit :
>>>   Hi Julien,
>>>
>>>   I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be resovled
>>>   without extending Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>   It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
>>>   RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
>>>
>> =======================================================================
>> ========
>>>
>> Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type value
>> (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component
>> networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface
>> Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the
>> interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the
>> switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of the
>> associated layers.
>>>   In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
>>>   Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
>>>   switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC
>>>   (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control plane
>>>   instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
>>>   region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at least
>>>   two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on
>>>   the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
>>>   single GMPLS control plane instance.
>>>
>> =======================================================================
>> ==============
>>>
>> Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate the
>> different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different granularity),
>> we can use Switching Cap&  Signal Type (&  Encoding Type as well) to
>> differentiate the different granularity.
>>>   So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using Switching
>>>   Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity requested
>>>   in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
>>>   SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
>>>
>>>   Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing
>>>   mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't
>> think
>>>   we need to extend Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>
>>>   Thanks
>>>
>>>   Fatai
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   ________________________________________ å�‘ä»¶äºº: Julien Meuric
>>>   [julien.meuric@orange.com] å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´: 2011å¹´12æœˆ7æ—¥ 0:08 åˆ°: Zhangfatai
>> Cc:
>>>   CCAMP; pce@ietf.org ä¸»é¢˜: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations
>> post
>>>   IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>   Hi Fatai.
>>>
>>>   As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will
>>>   agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk layer
>>>   would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field rather
>>>   straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,
>> e.g.
>>>   in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>   adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear feedback
>> on
>>>   the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
>>>   SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>   server layer within the ERO.
>>>
>>>   Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap
>>>   value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest so
>> as
>>>   to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
>>>
>>>   Regards,
>>>
>>>   Julien
>>>
>>>
>>>   Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a Ã©crit :
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Fatai
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>> (SERGIO)
>>>>
>>>> John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Sergio and Pietro
>>>>
>>>> SERGIO BELOTTI
>>>>
>>>> ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
>>>> Evolution
>>>>
>>>> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
>>>> Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inviato:
>>>> mercoledÃ¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:
>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>
>>>> Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I would
>>>> like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> see below
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
>>>>>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
>>>>>> Capability.
>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 ->  TDM-n should make this
>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
>>>>> PSC-1 ->  PSC-n.
>>>> [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and further
>>>> asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth', without
>>>> providing any evidence.
>>>>
>>>> To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>>>> the PSC-1 ->  PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
>>>> out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
>>>> have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
>>>> had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
>>>> PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
>>>>
>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>>>>>> in SDH/SONET.
>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
>>>>> technologies involved than we had in the past.
>>>> [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>>>> and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases
>>>> the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability in
>>>> the manner you are suggesting.
>>>>
>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
>>>>>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
>>>>>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
>>>>>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
>>>>>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able to
>>>>>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
>>>>>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
>>>>>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
>>>>>> capabilities."
>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>> [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant to
>>>> describe how a given interface switches the information with which
>>>> it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>>>> bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>>>>> (Issue
>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
>>>>>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
>>>>>>>>>> idea was to
>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
>>>>>>>>>> switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
>>>>>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
>>>>> type
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
>>>>>>>>> "describes
>>>>> switching
>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
>>>>>>>>> the term
>>>>> (it
>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
>>>>>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
>>>>>>>>> it also says hierarchy
>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
>>>>>>>>> (a)
>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>> definition
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
>>>>>>>>> L2SC, TDM
>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
>>>>>>>>> to me that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
>>>>>>>>> is does
>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
>>>>>>>>> model OTN as
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 ->  PSC-4.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
>>>>>>>>> this approach
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>> within
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
>>>>>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
>>>>>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
>>>>>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
>>>>>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
>>>>>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
>>>>>>>>> updated to match above.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>> significantly
>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>> change,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>> need
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
>>>>>>>>>> in tandem?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>> reject
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
>>>>>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
>>>>>>>>>> draft (version
>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
>>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
>>>>>>>>>> allocation of the
>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
>>>>>>>>>> with MAX
>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
>>>>>>>>>> and 3
>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
>>>>>>>>>> only one
>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
>>>>>>>>>> sure) that
>>>>> two
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
>>>>>>>>>> was to have both
>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
>>>>>>>>>> the two
>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System&  Technology - DU IP&
>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
>>>>>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>> email
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing list
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>> _______________________________________________
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>, Zhangfatai <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:28:59 -0800
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>my interpretation =
of
Jonathan=A1=AFs sentence is not in contradiction with G.872 statement: the =
relation
among containers with different rates is an heterogeneous variety of possib=
ilities
that means we cannot state which is the server layer of a e.g. ODU2 since i=
n an
OTN network ODU2 can traverse link at different ODUkOTUk rates .(ODU3 , ODU=
4 or
OTU2). This is capture in G.872 in the sentence related to =A1=B0heterogene=
ous assembly
of ODUs=A1=B1 for which the only way to manage an OTN network is consider O=
DU &nbsp;as
a single layer .<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span lang=
=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DTahoma><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font siz=
e=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>Da:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> John E D=
rake
[mailto:jdrake@juniper.net] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Inviato:</span></b> marted=A8=AC 20 dic=
embre 2011
17.27<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>A:</span></b> Sadler, Jonathan B.; BELO=
TTI,
SERGIO (SERGIO)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> CCAMP<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Oggetto:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] </span>=
</font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>=
: R: OSPF
OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)</span></font><font size=3D3
face=3DSimSun><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:SimSun'><o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT"><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:
11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Jonathan,<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I think what y=
ou
stated, below, is inconsistent with what Sergio quoted;&nbsp; the quote sta=
tes
that the set of interfaces in a given IGP instance, regardless of the rate
individual interfaces, is modeled as a single layer network.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>As this point =
I am a
bystander =A8C please ask Sergio for any G.872 related information.<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 20, =
2011
8:13 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake; BELOTTI, S=
ERGIO
(SERGIO)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> CCAMP<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [CCAMP] </span>=
</font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>:
R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT"><span lang=3DEN-=
US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>While each ODU=
 layer
is a single layer network, how the ODUs interact with each other (e.g. plac=
ing
an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a multi-layer network.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>This detail is
especially important when dealing with multi-stage multiplexing (eg ODU0 ov=
er
ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with different adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS =
vs
1.2G TS)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>CCAMP did get =
a
liaison from ITU-T last year pointing these details out (LS221).<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Jonathan Sadle=
r<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 20, =
2011
10:02 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)=
<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> CCAMP<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [CCAMP] </span>=
</font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>:
R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT"><span lang=3DEN-=
US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Excellent.&nbs=
p;
Jonathan, check this out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>John&nbsp; <o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#1f497d" face=3DCalibri><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, December 20, =
2011
7:59 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> John E Drake<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julie=
n
Meuric<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> R: [CCAMP] </span><=
/font><font
size=3D2 face=3DSimSun><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>:
R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"FuturaA Bk BT"><span lang=3DEN-=
US
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>John, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Just to emphasize what you've already well menti=
oned
about multi-layer in OTN.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>This is what reports the Recommendation represen=
ting
Optical Transport Network architecture , G.872.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>.....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&quot;Since the resources that support these
topological components support a heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, <span
style=3D'background:yellow'>the ODU layer is modelled as a single layer net=
work</span>
that is independent of bit-rate.&nbsp; The ODU bit-rate is a parameter that
allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU link connection to be
determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'=
font-size:
10.0pt'>-----Messaggio originale-----<br>
Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Joh=
n E
Drake<br>
Inviato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 16.14<br>
A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai<br>
Cc: CCAMP<br>
Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] </span></font><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span
lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></=
font>: R: OSPF OTN
considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Julien,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I don't know how many times we want to go over t=
his.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>As you might expect, Switching Capability enable=
s path
computation to be aware of regions in which there are different switching
capabilities.&nbsp; It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers)
within those regions.&nbsp; In particular, nowhere in the entire body of th=
e
Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SO=
NET
which, along with OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with wh=
ich
we have to deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastric=
ht,
it was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of multi-l=
ayer
in its modeling of OTN networks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberra=
tion
that can be attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collectiv=
e
memory?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Of Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; To: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] </span></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; About the IGP, I believe we agree on severa=
l
things:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - we are dealing with the ODUk layers withi=
n the
OTN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; technology/regions;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put t=
he
information on ODUk<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; capabilities of nodes.<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - using the term &quot;extension&quot; to r=
efer
to encoding the hierarchy level<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] =
are
part of existing RFCs<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (e.g. 4203);<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; - selecting the SC field as an information =
on the
hierarchy level.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; This leaves us with an open discussion on t=
he
latter. We already have 2<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; a) multiple SC values,<o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&a=
mp;
Encoding Type as well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; First of all, I do not believe the original
intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms =
may
map to &quot;regions&quot;, but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; from a codepoint perspective we can have se=
veral
values behind a single<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Then you propose to use the &quot;[OTN] Sig=
nal
Type&quot;: as opposed to a)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; this is a new extension, created in<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As
emphasized by Kireeti, the SC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; field should allow to constrain path comput=
ation
into a range or a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessar=
ily
specifying a full list).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the =
whole
OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; SC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; field is useless to prune the network graph=
 when
routing an ODUk: even<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to=
 parse
some OTN-specific<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the
&quot;old-fashion&quot; approach which represent the<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; hierarchy information at a higher level in =
the
IGP, like it was done<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; PBB-TE (RFC 6060).<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6cri=
t :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Julien,<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I agree the requirement that you
mentioned, but it can be resovled<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without extending Switching Cap.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is known that there are two c=
ases
described in RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; RFC5339, one is MRN, another one=
 is
MLN. In RFC5212, it says:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Thus, a control plane region, identified by=
 its
switching type value<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into
smaller-granularity component<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; networks based on &quot;data plane switchin=
g
layers&quot;.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD)
[RFC4202],&nbsp; identifying the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; interface switching capability (ISC), the
encoding type, and the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; switching bandwidth granularity, enables th=
e
characterization of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; associated layers.<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this document, we define a
multi-layer network (MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Traffic Engineering (TE) domain
comprising multiple data plane<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; switching layers either of the s=
ame
ISC (e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controll=
ed by
a single GMPLS control plane<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instance. We further define a
particular case of MLNs. A multi-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region network (MRN) is defined =
as a
TE domain supporting at least<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; two different switching types (e=
.g.,
PSC and TDM), either hosted on<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the same device or on different =
ones,
and under the control of a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; single GMPLS control plane insta=
nce.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switchi=
ng Cap
to differentiate the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; different &quot;layers&quot;; for MLN case =
(same
ISC with different granularity),<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; we can use Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type =
(&amp;
Encoding Type as well) to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; differentiate the different granularity.<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So, come back to your question, =
it can
be achived by using Switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Signal=
 Type
to identify the granularity requested<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in OTN networks(e.g., this infor=
mation
can be carried in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Lastly, in my opinion, if there =
is no
issue based on the existing<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or definition without
extending Switching Cap, I don't<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; think<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we need to extend Switching Cap.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;
________________________________________ </span></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meuric@orange.com] </spa=
n></font><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: 2011</span><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-C=
N
style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=C4=EA</span></font><span lang=3DE=
N-US>12</span><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=D4=C2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>7</span><font face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN
style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS"'>=C8=D5</span></font><span lang=3DE=
N-US> 0:08 </span><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=B5=BD</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Zhangfatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP; pce@ietf.org </span></fon=
t><font
face=3D"Arial Unicode MS"><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Un=
icode MS"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-US>: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; post<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As co-author of
draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; agree on the fact that having a
Switching Capability per ODUk layer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; would make the use of objects
including a Switching Cap field rather<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; straightforward and enables a
fine-grained resource description,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to
precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; adaptation requested by a higher
layer, or to get a clear feedback<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; on<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the missing adaptation for
unsuccessful path computations; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to
precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; server layer within the ERO.<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you think that summarizin=
g
G.709 by a single Switching Cap<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; value would take some capabiliti=
es
away? What would you suggest so<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to achieve the same level of det=
ails
in that scenario?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Julien<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai =
a
=A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; I agree that there is no need to
overload Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- From:
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] O=
n
Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors, we shared
completely your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Sergio and Pietro<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System
Architect Optics Portfolio<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) <st=
1:country-region
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Italy</st1:place></st1:country-region> T=
: +39
0396863033<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Messaggio originale----- Da:
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] P=
er
conto di John E Drake Inviato:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 30 novembre 2011 2=
2.37 A: Lou
Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN consideratio=
ns
post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; Comments inline. I still think th=
is is
a terrible idea and I would<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; like to see what the rest of the =
WG
thinks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message----- Fr=
om:
Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sen=
t:
Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc:
Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN consider=
ations
post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E=
 Drake
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Using Switching Capabilit=
y to
indicate link bandwidth seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ill-considered at best,
especially since this information is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carried in other fields, =
and as
Daniele noted, it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; significantly overloads t=
o
intended meaning of Switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Capability.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I agree with the point on BW,=
 but
my point was related to the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer&amp;hierarchy implicati=
ons of
the different ODUk values. I'd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think that using values that =
are
TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n should make this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; clear and remove any ambiguit=
y
related to bandwidth. It is also<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; completely consistent with th=
e base
GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] You are simply asserting tha=
t this
is a good idea and further<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; asserting that there is &quot;amb=
iguity
related to bandwidth', without<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; providing any evidence.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; To the best of my knowledge no on=
e ever
implemented or deployed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hierarchy, =
simply
because no one could figure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; out what it meant. To quote from =
you, below,
&quot;Well hopefully we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; have a better understanding of th=
e
technologies involved than we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; had in the past.&quot;. I.e., we =
should
all understand that PSC-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and mov=
e on.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It also is inconsistent w=
ith
the usage of Switching Capability<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SDH/SONET.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Well hopefully we have a bett=
er
understanding of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; technologies involved than we=
 had
in the past.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think we had a very good u=
nderstanding
of SDH/SONET then<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; and we have a very good understan=
ding
of OTN now, and in both cases<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the authors saw no requirement to
overload switching capability in<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; the manner you are suggesting.<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A more extensive quote fr=
om
RFC4202 is the following, which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; seems clear enough to me:=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;In the context of t=
his
document we say that a link is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; connected to a node by an
interface. In the context of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces may have diffe=
rent switching
capabilities. For<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an interface that
connects a given link to a node may<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able to switch
individual packets, but it may be able to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; switch channels within an=
 SDH
payload. Interfaces at each end<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need not have t=
he
same switching capabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Interfaces on the same no=
de
need not have the same switching<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; capabilities.&quot;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this helps clari=
fy
anything...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it clarifies that
switching capabilities is meant to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; describe how a given interface sw=
itches
the information with which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; it is provided. This has nothing =
to do
with the interface's<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message=
-----
From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.=
net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Dr=
ake
Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =
OSPF
OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Issue<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Great. Care to substa=
ntiate
your point?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 11:14 A=
M,
John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I completely disa=
gree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original
Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
[mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Behalf<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Of Lou Berger=
 Sent:
Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele
Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN
considerations post IETF 82 (Issue<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi Daniele, S=
ince I
raised the point, I guess I need to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; champion it! =
(With
chair hat off.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele said:=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 1:
the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk=
 of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing
hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a quick t=
alk
with the other authors of the ID, the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; idea was =
to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the propo=
sal as
it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching
Capability field. (even if the definition of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-=
4
already overloads the meaning of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching
capability field)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really g=
oes to
the interpretation of the intent of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching
Capability Types. So we have a few<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definitions: =
3471
says &quot;the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; type<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching tha=
t
should be performed&quot;, 4202 says<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;describ=
es<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; capability of=
 an
interface.&quot; 3945 doesn't really define<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (it<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just referenc=
es
4202), but does equate it with a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;layer&q=
uot;.
While it allows for hierarchy within a &quot;layer&quot;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; it also says
hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;between
interface types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I interpre=
t
Switching Capability Types to represent<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even within a
layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the original =
GMPLS
supported technologies (i.e., PSC,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; L2SC, TDM<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and FSC), and=
 (b)
is identifiable in the original types<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; plus the<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 thro=
ugh
PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So how does t=
his
apply to our current OTN work?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, the fi=
rst
question to ask relates to (a), and is<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk be model=
ed as
a separate layer?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know this h=
as
been a much debated point, and it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more=
 for
the perspective of switching layers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layers (i.e.,=
 they
are clearly the same technology but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; granularity o=
f
swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the s=
econd
question to ask relates to (b), and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is does<o:p><=
/o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk represen=
t a
different level of hierarchy?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I see this as
simply yes, and no different than what has<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with
Ethernet or, even if we do continue to<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN as<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; single layer,=
 no
different than PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's also =
a
minor processing efficiency gained by<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this approach=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that su=
pport
a smaller set of ODUks than are<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; within<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; IGP.<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Based on all =
this,
I believe different ODUk's should use<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different Swi=
tching
Types. In particular, I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that eith=
er the
framework or info documents identify<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a per-OT=
Uk
Switching Capability Types will be used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to support G.=
709v3.
(2) that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Cap=
 field
value for each ODUk, and that it<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; state that th=
e
value corresponding to the signal type<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; identified in=
 the
#stages=3D0 of the ISCP be set. (Without<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; any other cha=
nges
to the current definition of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (3) that
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to ma=
tch
above.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To keep think=
s
generic, we probably should use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switc=
hing
Capability Types, but this is a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion.<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments?<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PS While the =
above
is an important change, it doesn't<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significantly<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; impact encodi=
ng and
won't take much text to make the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actual<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a
discussion that can continue until <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D=
"on">Paris</st1:place></st1:City>
if we<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; really<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; face to face =
to
resolve the discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/2011=
 1:18
PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; During th=
e OTN
OSPF draft presentation at the IETF<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meeting i=
n<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <st1:City w:st=3D"on"=
><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">Taipei</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; comments =
were
raised with respect to the following<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; issues:<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 1=
:
Using different switching caps for each ODU<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; type<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 2=
: Type
2 (unres bandwidth for variable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; container=
s) and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX LSP
bandwidth foe variable containers always used<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in tandem=
?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 1:
the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk=
 of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing
hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; quick tal=
k with
the other authors of the ID, the idea<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposal =
as it
would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f the
Switching Capability field. (even if<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the defin=
ition
of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning o=
f the
switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue=
 2: it
is analyzed in section 5.3 of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft (ve=
rsion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I'm copyi=
ng it
below for your convenience<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In this e=
xample
the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown. In=
 case
of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o=
:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be
advertised but in some cases also information<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; about the=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserve=
d
bandwidth could be useful. The amount of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
 does
not give a clear indication of how many<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can be se=
t up
either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it giv=
es no
information about the spatial<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocatio=
n of
the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An indica=
tion
of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could be<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; during th=
e path
computation process, as shown in the<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example.
Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with MAX<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth=
 equal
to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserve=
d<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth=
 are
available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p=
></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 1=
0 GBps
each, have to be restored, for sure<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; only one<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; can<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; restored =
along
Link B and it is probable (but not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) tha=
t<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them can =
be
restored along Link A.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early pro=
posal
was to have, in the case of variable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; container=
s
advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth=
 TLV
(Type 3)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p><=
/span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; mandatory=
 piece
of information and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwdth=
 TLV<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Type<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as an opt=
ional
piece of information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The comme=
nt
received is that optional information can<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to
interworking issues and the counter proposal<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to ha=
ve
both<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pieces<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; informati=
on as
mandatory and, as a consequence, merge<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the two<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; into<o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a single =
one.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We'd like=
 to
hear the opinion of the WG on both issues<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; before<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proceeding<o:=
p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with any
modification to the document.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Daniele<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *DANIELE
CECCARELLI * *System &amp; Technology - DU IP &amp;<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Broadband=
*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Via L.Cal=
da, 5 <st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Genova</st1:City>, <st1:country-region w:=
st=3D"on">Italy</st1:country-region></st1:place>
Phone +390106002512<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <st1:plac=
e
w:st=3D"on">Mobile</st1:place> +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.co=
m<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
www.ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;http://www.ericsson.com/&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This
Communication is Confidential. We only send and<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; receive<o=
:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; email<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; on<o:p></o:p></span><=
/font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the basis=
 of
the term set out at<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; www.ericsson.com/email_discla=
imer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&lt;http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; _________________________________=
______________
CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; &gt; &gt; CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; ___________________________________________=
____<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<=
o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>CCAMP@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN=
-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp<o:p>=
</o:p></span></font></p>

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> 2)  I think both Lou and Julien are close to abusing their positions
as WG chairs

John,
	So this is an interesting statement.  It implies a WG chair is not
allowed to take an technical positions within a WG that they chair.
This is, of course, pure nonsense.

If you really believe that I (or the PCE WG chair for that matter) have
acted in a manner inconsistent with RFC 2026 or RFC 2418, I strongly
encourage you to follow standard IETF process in this regard.

Lou

On 12/20/2011 11:50 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have several observations:
> 
> 1)  We are just repeating ourselves
> 
> 2)  I think both Lou and Julien are close to abusing their positions as WG chairs
> 
> 3)  There seems to be a preponderance of opinion to go with the current design
> 
> Therefore, I would like to call the question and have Deborah decide what our design direction is to be.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:28 AM
>> To: Sadler, Jonathan B.
>> Cc: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue 1/2)
>>
>> Jonathan,
>>       This point is precisely (one of) the key reasons I put forward
>> the
>> proposal on multiple SC types.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/20/2011 11:12 AM, Sadler, Jonathan B. wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While each ODU layer is a single layer network, how the ODUs interact
>>> with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a
>>> multi-layer network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This detail is especially important when dealing with multi-stage
>>> multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with different
>>> adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last year pointing these details
>> out
>>> (LS221).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Sadler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *John E Drake
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM
>>> *To:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>>> *Cc:* CCAMP
>>> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sergio,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excellent.  Jonathan, check this out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM
>>> *To:* John E Drake
>>> *Cc:* CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric
>>> *Subject:* R: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned about multi-
>> layer
>>> in OTN.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is what reports the Recommendation representing Optical
>> Transport
>>> Network architecture , G.872.
>>>
>>> .....
>>>
>>> "Since the resources that support these topological components
>> support a
>>> heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, the ODU layer is modelled as a single
>>> layer network that is independent of bit-rate.  The ODU bit-rate is a
>>> parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU
>>> link connection to be determined."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
>> di
>>> John E Drake
>>> Inviato: marted¨¬ 20 dicembre 2011 16.14
>>> A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Julien,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know how many times we want to go over this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As you might expect, Switching Capability enables path computation to
>> be
>>> aware of regions in which there are different switching capabilities.
>>> It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) within those
>>> regions.  In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the
>>> Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which, along with
>>> OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with which we have
>> to
>>> deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastricht,
>> it
>>> was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of
>>> multi-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be
>>> attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collective
>> memory?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>
>>>> Of Julien Meuric
>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM
>>>
>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>
>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>
>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fatai.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
>>>
>>>> - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN
>>>
>>>> technology/regions;
>>>
>>>> - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk
>>>
>>>> capabilities of nodes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> What we disagree on:
>>>
>>>> - using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy
>> level
>>>
>>>> in
>>>
>>>> the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs
>>>
>>>> (e.g. 4203);
>>>
>>>> - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already
>> have 2
>>>
>>>> options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
>>>
>>>> a) multiple SC values,
>>>
>>>> b)"Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)".
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was
>> to
>>>
>>>> reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions", but
>>>
>>>> from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a
>> single
>>>
>>>> xSC (e.g. x=P).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a)
>>>
>>>> above,
>>>
>>>> this is a new extension, created in
>>>
>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the
>> SC
>>>
>>>> field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a
>>>
>>>> sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full
>> list).
>>>
>>>> The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means
>> the
>>>
>>>> SC
>>>
>>>> field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk:
>> even
>>>
>>>> for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific
>>>
>>>> sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which represent
>> the
>>>
>>>> hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done
>>>
>>>> for
>>>
>>>> PBB-TE (RFC 6060).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Julien
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>
>>>>>  Hi Julien,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be
>> resovled
>>>
>>>>>  without extending Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
>>>
>>>>>  RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>
>>>> ========
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type value
>>>
>>>> (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component
>>>
>>>> networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface
>>>
>>>> Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the
>>>
>>>> interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the
>>>
>>>> switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of the
>>>
>>>> associated layers.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
>>>
>>>>>  Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
>>>
>>>>>  switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different
>> ISC
>>>
>>>>>  (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control
>> plane
>>>
>>>>>  instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
>>>
>>>>>  region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at
>> least
>>>
>>>>>  two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted
>> on
>>>
>>>>>  the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
>>>
>>>>>  single GMPLS control plane instance.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>
>>>> ==============
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate
>> the
>>>
>>>> different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different
>> granularity),
>>>
>>>> we can use Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well) to
>>>
>>>> differentiate the different granularity.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using
>> Switching
>>>
>>>>>  Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity
>> requested
>>>
>>>>>  in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
>>>
>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing
>>>
>>>>>  mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't
>>>
>>>> think
>>>
>>>>>  we need to extend Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Thanks
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Fatai
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  ________________________________________ ·¢¼þÈË: Julien Meuric
>>>
>>>>>  [julien.meuric@orange.com] ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ7ÈÕ 0:08 µ½:
>> Zhangfatai
>>>
>>>> Cc:
>>>
>>>>>  CCAMP; pce@ietf.org Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations
>>>
>>>> post
>>>
>>>>>  IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Hi Fatai.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you
>> will
>>>
>>>>>  agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk
>> layer
>>>
>>>>>  would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field
>> rather
>>>
>>>>>  straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,
>>>
>>>> e.g.
>>>
>>>>>  in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>
>>>>>  adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear
>> feedback
>>>
>>>> on
>>>
>>>>>  the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
>>>
>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>
>>>>>  server layer within the ERO.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap
>>>
>>>>>  value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest
>> so
>>>
>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>  to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Julien
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>
>>>>>> (SERGIO)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Sergio and Pietro
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> SERGIO BELOTTI
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
>>>
>>>>>> Evolution
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
>>>
>>>>>> Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake
>> Inviato:
>>>
>>>>>> mercoled¨¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP
>> Oggetto:
>>>
>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I
>> would
>>>
>>>>>> like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>
>>>>>>> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>
>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> see below
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>
>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>
>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
>>>
>>>>>>>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
>>>
>>>>>>>> Capability.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>
>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>
>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make
>> this
>>>
>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>
>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
>>>
>>>>>>> PSC-1 -> PSC-n.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and
>> further
>>>
>>>>>> asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth',
>> without
>>>
>>>>>> providing any evidence.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>>>
>>>>>> the PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
>>>
>>>>>> out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
>>>
>>>>>> have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
>>>
>>>>>> had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
>>>
>>>>>> PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>>>
>>>>>>>> in SDH/SONET.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
>>>
>>>>>>> technologies involved than we had in the past.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>>>
>>>>>> and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both
>> cases
>>>
>>>>>> the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability
>> in
>>>
>>>>>> the manner you are suggesting.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>
>>>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
>>>
>>>>>>>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
>>>
>>>>>>>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
>>>
>>>>>>>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
>>>
>>>>>>>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able
>> to
>>>
>>>>>>>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
>>>
>>>>>>>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
>>>
>>>>>>>> capabilities."
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant
>> to
>>>
>>>>>> describe how a given interface switches the information with
>> which
>>>
>>>>>> it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>>>
>>>>>> bandwidth.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Issue
>>>
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea was to
>>>
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> switching capability field)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
>>>
>>>>>>> type
>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "describes
>>>
>>>>>>> switching
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the term
>>>
>>>>>>> (it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it also says hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>> occurs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (a)
>>>
>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>
>>>>>>> definition
>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> L2SC, TDM
>>>
>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>
>>>>>>> each
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to me that
>>>
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>
>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is does
>>>
>>>>>>> each
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> model OTN as
>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this approach
>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>
>>>>>>> within
>>>
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> updated to match above.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>
>>>>>>> change,
>>>
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>
>>>>>>> need
>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> in tandem?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>
>>>>>>> reject
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> draft (version
>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>
>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> allocation of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with MAX
>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and 3
>>>
>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> only one
>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure) that
>>>
>>>>>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to have both
>>>
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the two
>>>
>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>
>>>>>>> email
>>>
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>
>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing
>> list
>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>> ============================================================
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>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
>>> please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
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>>> ============================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3D"#606420"><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I completely agre=
e with your email, below.&nbsp; What I thought was inconsistent in Jonathan=
=A1=AFs email was the phrase =A1=B0</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>While each ODU layer is a single layer netw=
ork</span><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>=
=A1=B1.&nbsp; But since you are the expert I will defer to your interpretat=
ion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'>John&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span>=
</p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) =
[mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, Decemb=
er 20, 2011 9:12 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E Drake; Sadler, Jonathan B.<br><b>C=
c:</b> CCAMP<br><b>Subject:</b> R: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considera=
tions post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>John,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'>my interpretation of Jonathan=A1=
=AFs sentence is not in contradiction with G.872 statement: the relation am=
ong containers with different rates is an heterogeneous variety of possibil=
ities that means we cannot state which is the server layer of a e.g. ODU2 s=
ince in an OTN network ODU2 can traverse link at different ODUkOTUk rates .=
(ODU3 , ODU4 or OTU2). This is capture in G.872 in the sentence related to =
=A1=B0heterogeneous assembly of ODUs=A1=B1 for which the only way to manage=
 an OTN network is consider ODU &nbsp;as a single layer .<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";c=
olor:blue'>Sergio<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:blue'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=
=3D'text-align:center'><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-famil=
y:SimSun'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Taho=
ma","sans-serif"'>Da:</span></b><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]=
 <br><b>Inviato:</b> marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 17.27<br><b>A:</b> Sadle=
r, Jonathan B.; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br><b>Oggetto:=
</b> RE: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 8=
2 (Issue 1/2)</span><span lang=3DIT style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:S=
imSun'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DIT><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think what you stated, below, i=
s inconsistent with what Sergio quoted;&nbsp; the quote states that the set=
 of interfaces in a given IGP instance, regardless of the rate individual i=
nterfaces, is modeled as a single layer network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As this point I am a bystander=
 =A8C please ask Sergio for any G.872 related information.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none=
;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D=
'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","s=
ans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Ta=
homa","sans-serif"'> Sadler, Jonathan B. [mailto:Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.co=
m] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> John E=
 Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br><b>Subject:</b> RE:=
 [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Si=
mSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:=
#1F497D'>While each ODU layer is a single layer network, how the ODUs inter=
act with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a multi-l=
ayer network.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'>This detail is especially important when dealing with multi-stage=
 multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with different adap=
tation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last=
 year pointing these details out (LS221).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jonathan Sadler<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;borde=
r-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:<=
/span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of <=
/b>John E Drake<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM<br><b>T=
o:</b> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Sim=
Sun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>Sergio,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'>Excellent.&nbsp; Jonathan, check this out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John&nbsp; <o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:non=
e;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alc=
atel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM<br><b>=
To:</b> John E Drake<br><b>Cc:</b> CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric<br><b>S=
ubject:</b> R: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (I=
ssue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>John, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned about multi-layer =
in OTN.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>This is what reports the Recommendation representing Optica=
l Transport Network architecture , G.872.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>.....<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&quot;Since the resources =
that support these topological components support a heterogeneous assembly =
of ODUs, <span style=3D'background:yellow'>the ODU layer is modelled as a s=
ingle layer network</span> that is independent of bit-rate.&nbsp; The ODU b=
it-rate is a parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for t=
he ODU link connection to be determined.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Thank=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>Sergio<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText><span lang=3DIT>-----Messaggio originale-----<br>Da: ccamp-bounce=
s@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake<br>Inv=
iato: marted=A8=AC 20 dicembre 2011 16.14<br>A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai<b=
r>Cc: CCAMP<br>Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font=
-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span lang=3DIT=
>: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Julie=
n,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>I don't know how many times we want to go over this.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>As =
you might expect, Switching Capability enables path computation to be aware=
 of regions in which there are different switching capabilities.&nbsp; It w=
as never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) within those regions.&n=
bsp; In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the Multi-Layer/Multi-Reg=
ion work is this capability mentioned.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>Further, it is not used in t=
his manner in SDH/SONET which, along with OTN, is the best example of a mul=
ti-layer network with which we have to deal and the last time we had this d=
iscussion, prior to Maastricht, it was stated that the ITU has deprecated t=
he use of the concept of multi-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be attribu=
ted to inexperience and just erase it from our collective memory?<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>T=
hanks,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Of Juli=
en Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, Decembe=
r 20, 2011 6:54 AM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; To: Zhangfata=
i<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc: CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'fon=
t-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: R: OSPF OTN =
considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (Iss=
ue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; About the IGP, I believ=
e we agree on several things:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - =
we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; technology/regions;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; capabilities of nodes.<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; What we disagree on:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - u=
sing the term &quot;extension&quot; to refer to encoding the hierarchy leve=
l<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of exis=
ting RFCs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; (e.g. 4203);<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; - selecting the SC field as an informatio=
n on the hierarchy level.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; This leaves us with an open disc=
ussion on the latter. We already have 2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; a) multiple SC values,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; b)&quot;Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&amp; Encoding Type as=
 well)&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; First of all, I do not believe the original =
intend of SC alone was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; reflec=
t the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to &quot;regions&quot;, but<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; from a codepoint perspective we ca=
n have several values behind a single<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; xSC (e.g. x=3DP).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Then you propose to use the &quot;=
[OTN] Signal Type&quot;: as opposed to a)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; above,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; this is a new e=
xtension, created in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; draft-ietf-=
ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the SC<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; field should allow to constrain path computati=
on into a range or a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; sub-part of=
 the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full list).<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the who=
le OTN, which means the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; SC<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; field is useless to prune the network=
 graph when routing an ODUk: even<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the &quot;ol=
d-fashion&quot; approach which represent the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it wa=
s done<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; PBB-TE (RFC 6060).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Regards,<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Julien,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I ag=
ree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be resovled<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; without extending Switching Cap.<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It is known that there are two cases described i=
n RFC5212 and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; RFC5339=
, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Thus, a control plane region, id=
entified by its switching type value<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; networks based on &quot;data plane =
switching layers&quot;.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Interface<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],&nbsp; i=
dentifying the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; interface switchi=
ng capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterizati=
on of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; associated layers.<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; In this document, we define a multi-layer network (=
MLN) to be a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Traffic =
Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; switching layers either of the same ISC (=
e.g., TDM) or different ISC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp; (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control plane<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; instance. We further d=
efine a particular case of MLNs. A multi-<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain support=
ing at least<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; two diff=
erent switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted on<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the same device or on different ones=
, and under the control of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; single GMPLS control plane instance.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Therefore, for MRN cas=
e, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; different &quot;layers&quot;; for MLN case (same ISC with =
different granularity),<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; we can u=
se Switching Cap &amp; Signal Type (&amp; Encoding Type as well) to<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; differentiate the different granularity=
.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; So, come back to your question, it can be achi=
ved by using Switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp=
; Cap&amp;Encoding Type&amp;Signal Type to identify the granularity request=
ed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in OTN networks(e.=
g., this information can be carried in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp=
; Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; mechnism or definition witho=
ut extending Switching Cap, I don't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; we need to =
extend Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; ________________________________________=
 <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Julien Meuric<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; [julien.meuric@orange.com] <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'=
font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span=
>: 2011<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-ser=
if"'>=C4=EA</span>12<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode =
MS","sans-serif"'>=D4=C2</span>7<span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'font-family:"Ar=
ial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=C8=D5</span> 0:08 <span lang=3DZH-CN style=
=3D'font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=B5=BD</span>: Zhangfatai<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; Cc:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; CCAMP; pce@ietf.org <span lang=3DZH-CN style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif"'>=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP=
] R: OSPF OTN considerations<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; pos=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Hi Fatai.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; As co-auth=
or of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you will<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; agree on the fact that having a Switchi=
ng Capability per ODUk layer<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
;&nbsp; would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field rathe=
r<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; straightforward and=
 enables a fine-grained resource description,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; e.g.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; in=
: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; adaptation requested by a higher laye=
r, or to get a clear feedback<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; on=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; the missing adaptati=
on for unsuccessful path computations; -<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the=
 type of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; server layer=
 within the ERO.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Do not you think that summarizi=
ng G.709 by a single Switching Cap<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt;&nbsp; value would take some capabilities away? What would you sugge=
st so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to achieve the same level of details in tha=
t scenario?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
Julien<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
&nbsp; Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a =A8=A6crit :<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; I ag=
ree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Than=
ks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fatai<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----=
 From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; (SERGIO)<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Sergio and Pietro<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; SERGIO BELOTTI<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestr=
ial System Architect Optics Portfolio<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt; Evolution<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; via Trento 30 , Vi=
mercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [mail=
to:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake Inviato:<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; mercoled=A8=AC 30 novembre 2011 22.=
37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP Oggetto:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; Comments inline. I still think this is a ter=
rible idea and I would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
 like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt; -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, N=
ovember 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 1=
:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considera=
tions post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; John,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; see below<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM,=
 John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt; Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ill-considered at best=
, especially since this information is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; significantly =
overloads to intended meaning of Switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Capability.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt; I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; layer&amp;hierarchy implic=
ations of the different ODUk values. I'd<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; think that using values that are TDM-1 -&gt; TDM-n s=
hould make this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; cl=
ear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; completely consistent with the =
base GMPLS definition, i.e.,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt; PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-n.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] You are s=
imply asserting that this is a good idea and further<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; asserting that there is &quot;ambiguity rela=
ted to bandwidth', without<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; providing any evidence.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; To the best of =
my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because =
no one could figure<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; ou=
t what it meant. To quote from you, below, &quot;Well hopefully we<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; have a better understanding of=
 the technologies involved than we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; had in the past.&quot;. I.e., we should all understand that PS=
C-1 -&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; PSC-4 was a =
bad idea (tm) and move on.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It also is inconsistent wit=
h the usage of Switching Capability<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; in SDH/SONET.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; =
Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; technologies involved than we had in the=
 past.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; [JD] I think we had a very good under=
standing of SDH/SONET then<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both cases<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the authors saw no requi=
rement to overload switching capability in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt; the manner you are suggesting.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A more extensiv=
e quote from RFC4202 is the following, which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; seems clear enough to me:<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;In the context of this document we say t=
hat a link is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; interfaces may have differen=
t switching capabilities. For<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt; example an interface that connects a given link to a node m=
ay<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not be able=
 to switch individual packets, but it may be able to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; switch channels within an SDH payloa=
d. Interfaces at each end<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt; of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Interfaces on the sa=
me node need not have the same switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; capabilities.&quot;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt; Not sure how this helps clarify anything...<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant t=
o<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; describe how a given=
 interface switches the information with which<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; it is provided. This has nothing to do with the in=
terface's<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt; bandwidth.<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ---=
--Original Message----- From: Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, N=
ovember 30, 2011<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OS=
PF OTN considerations post IETF 82<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Issue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt; 1/2)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; G=
reat. Care to substantiate your point?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I completely disag=
ree.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ---=
--Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org] On<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 Behalf<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt; Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: Daniele Ce=
ccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 =
(Issue<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1/2=
)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi=
 Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; champion it! (With chai=
r hat off.)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; All,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; Daniele said:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bott=
om<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; most ODUk of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the I=
SCD.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; idea was to<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the prop=
osal as it would lead to an overloading of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of<o:p></o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Capabilit=
y field. (even if the definition of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the mean=
ing of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; switching capability field)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; This really goes to the interpretation=
 of the intent of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Switching Capability Types. So we have a few<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definitions: 347=
1 says &quot;the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; t=
ype<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; switc=
hing that should be performed&quot;, 4202 says<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;describes<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; switching<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; capability of an interfa=
ce.&quot; 3945 doesn't really define<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the term<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; just references 4202), but does equate it with =
a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
&quot;layer&quot;. While it allows for hierarchy within a &quot;layer&quot;=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; i=
t also says hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt; occurs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt; &quot;between interface types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So I interpret Switching Capabili=
ty Types to represent<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (a)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hierarc=
hy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; --<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; even within a =
layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., =
PSC,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; L2SC, TDM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; LSC,<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; an=
d FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; plus the<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; definition<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of PSC-1 throug=
h PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; So how does this apply to our current OTN work?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To me, the first questio=
n to ask relates to (a), and is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; should<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I know this has been=
 a much debated point, and it seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&=
gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to me that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; they<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are, but more for the perspective of =
switching layers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; than<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; technology<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; are=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; different<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; granulari=
ty of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I think the second question to ask r=
elates to (b), and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is does<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; each<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I see this as simply y=
es, and no different than what has<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; been done<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; more<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recently with Ethernet or, even if we d=
o continue to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; model OTN as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt; single layer, no different than PSC-1 -&gt; PSC-4.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There's also a minor =
processing efficiency gained by<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this approach<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText=
>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; nodes that support a smaller set of ODU=
ks than are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; advertised<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t; within<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
an<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 IGP.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different Switchin=
g Types. In particular, I'm proposing:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (1) that either the framework or info =
documents identify<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to s=
upport G.709v3. (2) that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a differen=
t<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; state that the value cor=
responding to the signal type<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; identified in the #stages=3D0 of the ISCP be se=
t. (Without<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (3) that draf=
t-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated to match above.<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To keep thinks gen=
eric, we probably should use TDM-1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; through TDM-n<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the new Switching Capability Types, b=
ut this is a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; secondary<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; discussion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Comments?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Lou<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; PS While the above is an important change, it does=
n't<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significantly<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; im=
pact encoding and won't take much text to make the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; actual<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; change,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; so<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this is a discussion that can contin=
ue until Paris if we<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; really<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt; need<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; face to face to resolve the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Cecca=
relli wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi CCAMP,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at =
the IETF<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; meeting in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt; Taipei<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; comments were raised with respect to the following<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
 issues:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t=
ype<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; containers) and<o=
:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Type<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (MAX=
 LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in tandem?<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; W=
RT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; most ODUk of<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; muxing hiea=
rachy in the Switching Capability field of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the ISCD.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; After<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; quick talk with the =
other authors of the ID, the idea<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; reject<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; proposal as it would lead to an overloa=
ding of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the def=
inition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; meaning of the switching capa=
bility field)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; d=
raft (version<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 00).=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; I'm copying it below for your convenience<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
PlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In this example the =
advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; hierarchy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX L=
SP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; needs<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to be advertised but in some cases also information<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; about the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth =
does not give a clear indication of how many<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; can be set up either=
 at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; different<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rates,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as it gives no infor=
mation about the spatial<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; allocation of the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; free<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; TSs.<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; An indicat=
ion of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlain=
Text>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; could be<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; useful<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><=
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th computation process, as shown in the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example. Supposing=
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; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with MAX<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each.=
 In case 50Gbps of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gb=
ps on Link B<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt; and 3<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt; ODUflex<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; only one<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; can<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
; restored along Link B and it is probable (but not<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sure) that<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; two<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; them can be resto=
red along Link A.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Early proposal was to have, in the case of variab=
le<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt; containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandwidth TLV =
(Type 3)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a=
s<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt; mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved<o:p></o:p></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bandiwdth TLV<o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (Type<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2)<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; as an =
optional piece of information.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; The comment received is that optional in=
formation can<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal<o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; was =
to have both<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; pieces<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the tw=
o<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; TLVs<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; into<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; a sing=
le one.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; be=
fore<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; proceeding<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with any modification to the document.<o:p></o:p></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p>=
</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:=
p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; =
Daniele<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System &amp; Technology - DU I=
P &amp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;&gt; Broadband*<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512=
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g=
t; Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; www.ericsson.com<=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&=
gt;&gt; &lt;http://www.ericsson.com/&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlainT=
ext>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPlai=
nText>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
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My proposal in Taipei was motivated by intra-technology hierarchy
representation in a generic method, ala PSC-2->N.  The fact that in OTN
level of hierarchy also implies a bandwidth is really
orthogonal&incidental from this perspective.

You have made your position clear, i.e., that you think that the
original definition of PSC-2->N (and use of SC as a generic
intra-technology hierarchy indicator) is flawed.  Others have made the
point that it is not. As I've stated on the list, I personally think
it's an interesting proposal that should be considered.

So how do we close on this discussion?

In an earlier message I asked if you were interested in putting a draft
together to document your proposed change to the base GMPLS specs.
Since you haven't expressed any interest in this, I'll bite and commit
to putting forward a draft (in January) that captures both/all sides of
the base GMPLS implications of this debate.  Hopefully this will help
move the non-technology specific GMPLS portions of this debate to
closure; any needed OTN changes/implications can then follow.

Anyone interested in contributing, in a constructive manner, to this
individual draft is welcome.  Just send me mail.

Lou

On 12/20/2011 11:46 AM, John E Drake wrote:
> The snippet from Jonathan's email "how the ODUs interact with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1)" is a useful short description of the problem we are solving.
> 
> I.e., the types of ODUj a given ODUk interface supports.  This is much more relevant in path computation than that interface's bandwidth, especially given that multiple bandwidths of ODUk support a given ODUj, and we advertise an interface's bandwidth separately.
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:28 AM
>> To: Sadler, Jonathan B.
>> Cc: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue 1/2)
>>
>> Jonathan,
>>       This point is precisely (one of) the key reasons I put forward
>> the
>> proposal on multiple SC types.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/20/2011 11:12 AM, Sadler, Jonathan B. wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While each ODU layer is a single layer network, how the ODUs interact
>>> with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a
>>> multi-layer network.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This detail is especially important when dealing with multi-stage
>>> multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with different
>>> adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last year pointing these details
>> out
>>> (LS221).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Sadler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *John E Drake
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM
>>> *To:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>>> *Cc:* CCAMP
>>> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sergio,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excellent.  Jonathan, check this out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>> lucent.com]
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM
>>> *To:* John E Drake
>>> *Cc:* CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric
>>> *Subject:* R: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned about multi-
>> layer
>>> in OTN.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is what reports the Recommendation representing Optical
>> Transport
>>> Network architecture , G.872.
>>>
>>> .....
>>>
>>> "Since the resources that support these topological components
>> support a
>>> heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, the ODU layer is modelled as a single
>>> layer network that is independent of bit-rate.  The ODU bit-rate is a
>>> parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the ODU
>>> link connection to be determined."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sergio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto
>> di
>>> John E Drake
>>> Inviato: marted¨¬ 20 dicembre 2011 16.14
>>> A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai
>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Julien,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know how many times we want to go over this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As you might expect, Switching Capability enables path computation to
>> be
>>> aware of regions in which there are different switching capabilities.
>>> It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) within those
>>> regions.  In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the
>>> Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which, along with
>>> OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with which we have
>> to
>>> deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastricht,
>> it
>>> was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of
>>> multi-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be
>>> attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collective
>> memory?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>
>>>> Of Julien Meuric
>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM
>>>
>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>
>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>
>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Fatai.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
>>>
>>>> - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN
>>>
>>>> technology/regions;
>>>
>>>> - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk
>>>
>>>> capabilities of nodes.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> What we disagree on:
>>>
>>>> - using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy
>> level
>>>
>>>> in
>>>
>>>> the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing RFCs
>>>
>>>> (e.g. 4203);
>>>
>>>> - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already
>> have 2
>>>
>>>> options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
>>>
>>>> a) multiple SC values,
>>>
>>>> b)"Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)".
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was
>> to
>>>
>>>> reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions", but
>>>
>>>> from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a
>> single
>>>
>>>> xSC (e.g. x=P).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a)
>>>
>>>> above,
>>>
>>>> this is a new extension, created in
>>>
>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti, the
>> SC
>>>
>>>> field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a
>>>
>>>> sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full
>> list).
>>>
>>>> The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means
>> the
>>>
>>>> SC
>>>
>>>> field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk:
>> even
>>>
>>>> for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-specific
>>>
>>>> sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which represent
>> the
>>>
>>>> hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was done
>>>
>>>> for
>>>
>>>> PBB-TE (RFC 6060).
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Julien
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>
>>>>>  Hi Julien,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be
>> resovled
>>>
>>>>>  without extending Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
>>>
>>>>>  RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>
>>>> ========
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type value
>>>
>>>> (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component
>>>
>>>> networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface
>>>
>>>> Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the
>>>
>>>> interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the
>>>
>>>> switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of the
>>>
>>>> associated layers.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
>>>
>>>>>  Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
>>>
>>>>>  switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different
>> ISC
>>>
>>>>>  (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control
>> plane
>>>
>>>>>  instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
>>>
>>>>>  region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at
>> least
>>>
>>>>>  two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted
>> on
>>>
>>>>>  the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
>>>
>>>>>  single GMPLS control plane instance.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>
>>>> ==============
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate
>> the
>>>
>>>> different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different
>> granularity),
>>>
>>>> we can use Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well) to
>>>
>>>> differentiate the different granularity.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using
>> Switching
>>>
>>>>>  Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity
>> requested
>>>
>>>>>  in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
>>>
>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the existing
>>>
>>>>>  mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't
>>>
>>>> think
>>>
>>>>>  we need to extend Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Thanks
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Fatai
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  ________________________________________ ·¢¼þÈË: Julien Meuric
>>>
>>>>>  [julien.meuric@orange.com] ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ7ÈÕ 0:08 µ½:
>> Zhangfatai
>>>
>>>> Cc:
>>>
>>>>>  CCAMP; pce@ietf.org Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations
>>>
>>>> post
>>>
>>>>>  IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Hi Fatai.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you
>> will
>>>
>>>>>  agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk
>> layer
>>>
>>>>>  would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field
>> rather
>>>
>>>>>  straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,
>>>
>>>> e.g.
>>>
>>>>>  in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>
>>>>>  adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear
>> feedback
>>>
>>>> on
>>>
>>>>>  the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
>>>
>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>
>>>>>  server layer within the ERO.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching Cap
>>>
>>>>>  value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest
>> so
>>>
>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>  to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Julien
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Fatai
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>
>>>>>> (SERGIO)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Sergio and Pietro
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> SERGIO BELOTTI
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
>>>
>>>>>> Evolution
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
>>>
>>>>>> Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake
>> Inviato:
>>>
>>>>>> mercoled¨¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP
>> Oggetto:
>>>
>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I
>> would
>>>
>>>>>> like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>
>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>
>>>>>>> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>
>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> see below
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>
>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>
>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
>>>
>>>>>>>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
>>>
>>>>>>>> Capability.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>
>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>
>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make
>> this
>>>
>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>
>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
>>>
>>>>>>> PSC-1 -> PSC-n.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and
>> further
>>>
>>>>>> asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth',
>> without
>>>
>>>>>> providing any evidence.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>>>
>>>>>> the PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
>>>
>>>>>> out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
>>>
>>>>>> have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
>>>
>>>>>> had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
>>>
>>>>>> PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>>>
>>>>>>>> in SDH/SONET.
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
>>>
>>>>>>> technologies involved than we had in the past.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>>>
>>>>>> and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both
>> cases
>>>
>>>>>> the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability
>> in
>>>
>>>>>> the manner you are suggesting.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>
>>>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
>>>
>>>>>>>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
>>>
>>>>>>>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
>>>
>>>>>>>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
>>>
>>>>>>>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able
>> to
>>>
>>>>>>>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
>>>
>>>>>>>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
>>>
>>>>>>>> capabilities."
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant
>> to
>>>
>>>>>> describe how a given interface switches the information with
>> which
>>>
>>>>>> it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>>>
>>>>>> bandwidth.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>
>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Issue
>>>
>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea was to
>>>
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> switching capability field)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
>>>
>>>>>>> type
>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "describes
>>>
>>>>>>> switching
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the term
>>>
>>>>>>> (it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it also says hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>> occurs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (a)
>>>
>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>
>>>>>>> definition
>>>
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> L2SC, TDM
>>>
>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>
>>>>>>> each
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to me that
>>>
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>
>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>
>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is does
>>>
>>>>>>> each
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> model OTN as
>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this approach
>>>
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>
>>>>>>> within
>>>
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> updated to match above.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>
>>>>>>> significantly
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>
>>>>>>> change,
>>>
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>
>>>>>>> need
>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> in tandem?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>
>>>>>>> reject
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> draft (version
>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>
>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>
>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> allocation of the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with MAX
>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and 3
>>>
>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> only one
>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure) that
>>>
>>>>>>> two
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> was to have both
>>>
>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the two
>>>
>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>
>>>>>>> email
>>>
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>
>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing
>> list
>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>>
>>> ============================================================
>>> The information contained in this message may be privileged
>>> and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
>>> of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
>>> or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
>>> dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
>>> please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
>>> deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs
>>> ============================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From jdrake@juniper.net  Tue Dec 20 10:44:28 2011
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John,
	Thanks for the humor.  I'm sure it's nice to vent.

Lou

On 12/20/2011 1:43 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> If you are saying that we are free to ignore you, them I am fine and I think we are done with the OTN discussion.
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:12 AM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: Sadler, Jonathan B.; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); CCAMP; ccamp-
>> ads@tools.ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue 1/2)
>>
>>> 2)  I think both Lou and Julien are close to abusing their positions
>> as WG chairs
>>
>> John,
>>       So this is an interesting statement.  It implies a WG chair is
>> not
>> allowed to take an technical positions within a WG that they chair.
>> This is, of course, pure nonsense.
>>
>> If you really believe that I (or the PCE WG chair for that matter) have
>> acted in a manner inconsistent with RFC 2026 or RFC 2418, I strongly
>> encourage you to follow standard IETF process in this regard.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 12/20/2011 11:50 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have several observations:
>>>
>>> 1)  We are just repeating ourselves
>>>
>>> 2)  I think both Lou and Julien are close to abusing their positions
>> as WG chairs
>>>
>>> 3)  There seems to be a preponderance of opinion to go with the
>> current design
>>>
>>> Therefore, I would like to call the question and have Deborah decide
>> what our design direction is to be.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 8:28 AM
>>>> To: Sadler, Jonathan B.
>>>> Cc: John E Drake; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); CCAMP
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>>
>>>> Jonathan,
>>>>       This point is precisely (one of) the key reasons I put forward
>>>> the
>>>> proposal on multiple SC types.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>>
>>>> On 12/20/2011 11:12 AM, Sadler, Jonathan B. wrote:
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While each ODU layer is a single layer network, how the ODUs
>> interact
>>>>> with each other (e.g. placing an ODU0 into an ODU1) generates a
>>>>> multi-layer network.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This detail is especially important when dealing with multi-stage
>>>>> multiplexing (eg ODU0 over ODU1 over ODU2) AND dealing with
>> different
>>>>> adaptation styles (e.g. 2.5G TS vs 1.2G TS)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> CCAMP did get a liaison from ITU-T last year pointing these details
>>>> out
>>>>> (LS221).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonathan Sadler
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *John E Drake
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 10:02 AM
>>>>> *To:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO)
>>>>> *Cc:* CCAMP
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF
>> 82
>>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sergio,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent.  Jonathan, check this out.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO) [mailto:sergio.belotti@alcatel-
>>>> lucent.com]
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:59 AM
>>>>> *To:* John E Drake
>>>>> *Cc:* CCAMP; Zhangfatai; Julien Meuric
>>>>> *Subject:* R: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to emphasize what you've already well mentioned about multi-
>>>> layer
>>>>> in OTN.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is what reports the Recommendation representing Optical
>>>> Transport
>>>>> Network architecture , G.872.
>>>>>
>>>>> .....
>>>>>
>>>>> "Since the resources that support these topological components
>>>> support a
>>>>> heterogeneous assembly of ODUs, the ODU layer is modelled as a
>> single
>>>>> layer network that is independent of bit-rate.  The ODU bit-rate is
>> a
>>>>> parameter that allows the number of Tributary Slots (TS) for the
>> ODU
>>>>> link connection to be determined."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sergio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>>>>> Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per
>> conto
>>>> di
>>>>> John E Drake
>>>>> Inviato: marted¨¬ 20 dicembre 2011 16.14
>>>>> A: Julien Meuric; Zhangfatai
>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>> Oggetto: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Julien,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know how many times we want to go over this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As you might expect, Switching Capability enables path computation
>> to
>>>> be
>>>>> aware of regions in which there are different switching
>> capabilities.
>>>>> It was never intended to delineate sub-regions (layers) within
>> those
>>>>> regions.  In particular, nowhere in the entire body of the
>>>>> Multi-Layer/Multi-Region work is this capability mentioned.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Further, it is not used in this manner in SDH/SONET which, along
>> with
>>>>> OTN, is the best example of a multi-layer network with which we
>> have
>>>> to
>>>>> deal and the last time we had this discussion, prior to Maastricht,
>>>> it
>>>>> was stated that the ITU has deprecated the use of the concept of
>>>>> multi-layer in its modeling of OTN networks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could we please agree that PSC 1-4 was an aberration that can be
>>>>> attributed to inexperience and just erase it from our collective
>>>> memory?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of Julien Meuric
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:54 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>> To: Zhangfatai
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc: CCAMP
>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>>>
>>>>>> (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Fatai.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> About the IGP, I believe we agree on several things:
>>>>>
>>>>>> - we are dealing with the ODUk layers within the OTN
>>>>>
>>>>>> technology/regions;
>>>>>
>>>>>> - the ISCD is an appropriate place to put the information on ODUk
>>>>>
>>>>>> capabilities of nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What we disagree on:
>>>>>
>>>>>> - using the term "extension" to refer to encoding the hierarchy
>>>> level
>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> the SC field: the _fact_ is that PSC-[1~4] are part of existing
>> RFCs
>>>>>
>>>>>> (e.g. 4203);
>>>>>
>>>>>> - selecting the SC field as an information on the hierarchy level.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This leaves us with an open discussion on the latter. We already
>>>> have 2
>>>>>
>>>>>> options on the table for the ISCD in IGPs:
>>>>>
>>>>>> a) multiple SC values,
>>>>>
>>>>>> b)"Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)".
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, I do not believe the original intend of SC alone was
>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> reflect the notion of region: xSC acronyms may map to "regions",
>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> from a codepoint perspective we can have several values behind a
>>>> single
>>>>>
>>>>>> xSC (e.g. x=P).
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you propose to use the "[OTN] Signal Type": as opposed to a)
>>>>>
>>>>>> above,
>>>>>
>>>>>> this is a new extension, created in
>>>>>
>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00. As emphasized by Kireeti,
>> the
>>>> SC
>>>>>
>>>>>> field should allow to constrain path computation into a range or a
>>>>>
>>>>>> sub-part of the hierarchy (without necessarily specifying a full
>>>> list).
>>>>>
>>>>>> The I-D uses a single SC (OTN-TDM) for the whole OTN, which means
>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> SC
>>>>>
>>>>>> field is useless to prune the network graph when routing an ODUk:
>>>> even
>>>>>
>>>>>> for pruning, a CSFP implementation needs to parse some OTN-
>> specific
>>>>>
>>>>>> sub-TLVs. Hence I prefer the "old-fashion" approach which
>> represent
>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> hierarchy information at a higher level in the IGP, like it was
>> done
>>>>>
>>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>> PBB-TE (RFC 6060).
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Julien
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 06/12/2011 20:21, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi Julien,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I agree the requirement that you mentioned, but it can be
>>>> resovled
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  without extending Switching Cap.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  It is known that there are two cases described in RFC5212 and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  RFC5339, one is MRN, another one is MLN. In RFC5212, it says:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>> ========
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, a control plane region, identified by its switching type
>> value
>>>>>
>>>>>> (e.g., TDM), can be sub-divided into smaller-granularity component
>>>>>
>>>>>> networks based on "data plane switching layers".  The  Interface
>>>>>
>>>>>> Switching Capability Descriptor (ISCD) [RFC4202],  identifying the
>>>>>
>>>>>> interface switching capability (ISC), the encoding type, and the
>>>>>
>>>>>> switching bandwidth granularity, enables the characterization of
>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> associated layers.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  In this document, we define a multi-layer network (MLN) to be a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Traffic Engineering (TE) domain comprising multiple data plane
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  switching layers either of the same ISC (e.g., TDM) or different
>>>> ISC
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  (e.g., TDM and PSC) and controlled by a single GMPLS control
>>>> plane
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  instance. We further define a particular case of MLNs. A multi-
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  region network (MRN) is defined as a TE domain supporting at
>>>> least
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  two different switching types (e.g., PSC and TDM), either hosted
>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  the same device or on different ones, and under the control of a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  single GMPLS control plane instance.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> =======================================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>> ==============
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, for MRN case, we can use Switching Cap to differentiate
>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>> different "layers"; for MLN case (same ISC with different
>>>> granularity),
>>>>>
>>>>>> we can use Switching Cap & Signal Type (& Encoding Type as well)
>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> differentiate the different granularity.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  So, come back to your question, it can be achived by using
>>>> Switching
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Cap&Encoding Type&Signal Type to identify the granularity
>>>> requested
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  in OTN networks(e.g., this information can be carried in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object) .
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Lastly, in my opinion, if there is no issue based on the
>> existing
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  mechnism or definition without extending Switching Cap, I don't
>>>>>
>>>>>> think
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  we need to extend Switching Cap.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ________________________________________ ·¢¼þÈË: Julien Meuric
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  [julien.meuric@orange.com] ·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2011Äê12ÔÂ7ÈÕ 0:08 µ½:
>>>> Zhangfatai
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  CCAMP; pce@ietf.org Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] R: OSPF OTN considerations
>>>>>
>>>>>> post
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi Fatai.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  As co-author of draft-ietf-pce-inter-layer-ext, I believe you
>>>> will
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  agree on the fact that having a Switching Capability per ODUk
>>>> layer
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  would make the use of objects including a Switching Cap field
>>>> rather
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  straightforward and enables a fine-grained resource description,
>>>>>
>>>>>> e.g.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  in: - REQ-ADAP-CAP object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  adaptation requested by a higher layer, or to get a clear
>>>> feedback
>>>>>
>>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  the missing adaptation for unsuccessful path computations; -
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  SERVER_LAYER_INFO sub-object, to precisely identify the type of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  server layer within the ERO.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Do not you think that summarizing G.709 by a single Switching
>> Cap
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  value would take some capabilities away? What would you suggest
>>>> so
>>>>>
>>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  to achieve the same level of details in that scenario?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Julien
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Le 02/12/2011 09:51, Zhangfatai a ¨¦crit :
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree that there is no need to overload Switching Cap.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fatai
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of BELOTTI, SERGIO
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (SERGIO)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John, as co-authors, we shared completely your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Sergio and Pietro
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SERGIO BELOTTI
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ALCATEL-LUCENT Terrestrial System Architect Optics Portfolio
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Evolution
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> via Trento 30 , Vimercate(MI) Italy T: +39 0396863033
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sergio.Belotti@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Messaggio originale----- Da: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di John E Drake
>>>> Inviato:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mercoled¨¬ 30 novembre 2011 22.37 A: Lou Berger Cc: CCAMP
>>>> Oggetto:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comments inline. I still think this is a terrible idea and I
>>>> would
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> like to see what the rest of the WG thinks.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1:09 PM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP Subject:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> see below
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 2:59 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Using Switching Capability to indicate link bandwidth seems
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ill-considered at best, especially since this information is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> carried in other fields, and as Daniele noted, it
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> significantly overloads to intended meaning of Switching
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Capability.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree with the point on BW, but my point was related to the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> layer&hierarchy implications of the different ODUk values. I'd
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> think that using values that are TDM-1 -> TDM-n should make
>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> clear and remove any ambiguity related to bandwidth. It is also
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> completely consistent with the base GMPLS definition, i.e.,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PSC-1 -> PSC-n.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [JD] You are simply asserting that this is a good idea and
>>>> further
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> asserting that there is "ambiguity related to bandwidth',
>>>> without
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> providing any evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To the best of my knowledge no one ever implemented or deployed
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the PSC-1 -> PSC-4 hierarchy, simply because no one could figure
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> out what it meant. To quote from you, below, "Well hopefully we
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> have a better understanding of the technologies involved than we
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> had in the past.". I.e., we should all understand that PSC-1 ->
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PSC-4 was a bad idea (tm) and move on.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It also is inconsistent with the usage of Switching Capability
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in SDH/SONET.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well hopefully we have a better understanding of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> technologies involved than we had in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [JD] I think we had a very good understanding of SDH/SONET then
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and we have a very good understanding of OTN now, and in both
>>>> cases
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the authors saw no requirement to overload switching capability
>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the manner you are suggesting.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A more extensive quote from RFC4202 is the following, which
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> seems clear enough to me:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "In the context of this document we say that a link is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> connected to a node by an interface. In the context of GMPLS
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> interfaces may have different switching capabilities. For
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> example an interface that connects a given link to a node may
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> not be able to switch individual packets, but it may be able
>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> switch channels within an SDH payload. Interfaces at each end
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of a link need not have the same switching capabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Interfaces on the same node need not have the same switching
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> capabilities."
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not sure how this helps clarify anything...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [JD] I think it clarifies that switching capabilities is meant
>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> describe how a given interface switches the information with
>>>> which
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it is provided. This has nothing to do with the interface's
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bandwidth.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 8:43 AM To: John E Drake Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Great. Care to substantiate your point?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/30/2011 11:14 AM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Lou Berger Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 7:22 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Daniele Ceccarelli Cc: CCAMP Subject: Re: [CCAMP]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Daniele, Since I raised the point, I guess I need to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> champion it! (With chair hat off.)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea was to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability field. (even if the definition of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the meaning of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching capability field)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This really goes to the interpretation of the intent of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Capability Types. So we have a few
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitions: 3471 says "the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching that should be performed", 4202 says
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "describes
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> switching
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> capability of an interface." 3945 doesn't really define
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the term
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (it
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just references 4202), but does equate it with a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "layer". While it allows for hierarchy within a "layer"
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it also says hierarchy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> occurs
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "between interface types".
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I interpret Switching Capability Types to represent
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (a)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching/technology layers and (b) different levels of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even within a layer. I think (a) is identifiable in the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the original GMPLS supported technologies (i.e., PSC,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> L2SC, TDM
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LSC,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and FSC), and (b) is identifiable in the original types
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of PSC-1 through PSC-4.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So how does this apply to our current OTN work?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, the first question to ask relates to (a), and is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk be modeled as a separate layer?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know this has been a much debated point, and it seems
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, but more for the perspective of switching layers
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> technology
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> layers (i.e., they are clearly the same technology but
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> granularity of swicthing.) So this is a yes for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second question to ask relates to (b), and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is does
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUk represent a different level of hierarchy?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see this as simply yes, and no different than what has
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been done
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently with Ethernet or, even if we do continue to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> model OTN as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> single layer, no different than PSC-1 -> PSC-4.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's also a minor processing efficiency gained by
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this approach
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nodes that support a smaller set of ODUks than are
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> advertised
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> within
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IGP.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Based on all this, I believe different ODUk's should use
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different Switching Types. In particular, I'm proposing:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (1) that either the framework or info documents identify
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a per-OTUk Switching Capability Types will be used
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to support G.709v3. (2) that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3 define a different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching Cap field value for each ODUk, and that it
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> state that the value corresponding to the signal type
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> identified in the #stages=0 of the ISCP be set. (Without
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other changes to the current definition of ISCD.)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (3) that draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-signaling-g709v3 be
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> updated to match above.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To keep thinks generic, we probably should use TDM-1
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> through TDM-n
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new Switching Capability Types, but this is a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> secondary
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comments?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lou
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PS While the above is an important change, it doesn't
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> significantly
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact encoding and won't take much text to make the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> change,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is a discussion that can continue until Paris if we
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> face to face to resolve the discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2011 1:18 PM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi CCAMP,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> During the OTN OSPF draft presentation at the IETF
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Taipei
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comments were raised with respect to the following
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 1: Using different switching caps for each ODU
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Issue 2: Type 2 (unres bandwidth for variable
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> containers) and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (MAX LSP bandwidth foe variable containers always used
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in tandem?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 1: the proposal was to indicate the bottom
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most ODUk of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muxing hiearachy in the Switching Capability field of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ISCD.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quick talk with the other authors of the ID, the idea
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was to
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal as it would lead to an overloading of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the Switching Capability field. (even if
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the definition of PSC1-2-3-4 already overloads the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning of the switching capability field)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRT issue 2: it is analyzed in section 5.3 of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draft (version
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm copying it below for your convenience
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown. In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be advertised but in some cases also information
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved bandwidth could be useful. The amount of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be set up either at the MAX LSP Bandwidth or at
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rates,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as it gives no information about the spatial
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocation of the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TSs.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An indication of the amount of Unreserved bandwidth
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during the path computation process, as shown in the
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example. Supposing there are two TE-links (A and B)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with MAX
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each. In case 50Gbps of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unreserved
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 3
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ODUflex
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only one
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> restored along Link B and it is probable (but not
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure) that
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be restored along Link A.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Early proposal was to have, in the case of variable
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> containers advertisements (i.e. ODUflex), the MAX LSP
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bandwidth TLV (Type 3)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory piece of information and the Unreserved
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bandiwdth TLV
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Type
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as an optional piece of information.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The comment received is that optional information can
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to interworking issues and the counter proposal
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was to have both
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> pieces
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information as mandatory and, as a consequence, merge
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the two
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> TLVs
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single one.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'd like to hear the opinion of the WG on both issues
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceeding
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any modification to the document.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniele
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *DANIELE CECCARELLI * *System & Technology - DU IP &
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadband*
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Via L.Calda, 5 Genova, Italy Phone +390106002512
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile +393346725750 daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This Communication is Confidential. We only send and
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the basis of the term set out at
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ CCAMP mailing
>>>> list
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>> The information contained in this message may be privileged
>>>>> and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
>>>>> of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
>>>>> or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
>>>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
>>>>> dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
>>>>> please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
>>>>> deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs
>>>>> ============================================================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

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On 12/20/2011 2:02 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> > In an earlier message I asked if you were interested in putting a draft
>> > together to document your proposed change to the base GMPLS specs.
> [
> [JD]  There are no changes to the base GMPLS specs.  We are not changing the base definition of PSC 1-4 and what we are defining is completely consistent with SDH/SONET.
> 

John,
	In an earlier message you said:

On 11/30/2011 5:23 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Yes, I think that's fair.
>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:51 PM
>> > To: John E Drake
>> > Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>> > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue 1/2)
>> >
>> > So you're basically arguing that SC shouldn't be used to indicate
>> > different levels of hierarchy, i.e., usage (b) in my earlier message,
>> > and that the definition of PSC-1 -> n was flawed.  Right?
>> >
>> > Which then reduces the meaning of SC to simply and indicator of label
>> > type and ISCD format indicator.
>> >
>> > Is this your position?
>> >

Deprecating PSC1-4 and making SC Type just an indicator of label and
ISCD format will be covered in the draft. The draft wouldn't say
anything specifically about OTN.

Lou





From jdrake@juniper.net  Tue Dec 20 13:40:25 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:37:46 -0800
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFI6ICBPU1BGIE9UTiBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9u?= =?gb2312?b?cyBwb3N0IElFVEYgODIgKElzc3VlIDEvMik=?=
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John,
	As you probably know, each time we have new technology or a
change/evolution in a technology the folks involved in the technology
come up with a fairly technology-specific solution to their problem.
Part of the WG process has always been looking at the technology
specific extensions and figuring out what, if any, impact the
technlogy-specific extensions should have on the common portion of
GMPLS.  Prior to OTNv3, this can most recently be seen in both the
ethernet and WSON WG work.  In these cases, WG participants triggered
generalization of the proposed mechanisms.  This was even the case for
Ethernet, where I was on the other side as an author and the WG prompted
taking one document and making it 3.  IMO, as both a WG participant and
co-chair (yes, this time I'm making a statement as a Chair!), this
process is consistent, and required, by both the CCAMP's charter and WG
procedural precedent.   It is also exactly what we, the co-chairs, said
in our OTN discussion at IETF-78. (We mentioned defining new common
mechanisms as part of the solution refinement stage.)

In this case the OTN documents are not proposing a new mechanism, but
rather using a technology-specific approach.  Furthermore, in our
discussions you proposed modifying/deprecating documented usage /
meaning of SC Type.  I still see this as fitting within 'defining new
common mechanisms as part of the solution refinement stage.'

As you also may recall, the usage of SC type has come up multiple times
since it was introduced (perhaps by Yakov?).  I think (again as
participant and chair) it would be good to close this issue once and for
all.

See below for specific responses (as a WG participant).

On 12/20/2011 4:37 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Lou,
> 
> I don't see any inconsistency between the two statements.  Nobody
> uses PSC 1-4 so we don't have to touch it and the SDH/SONET model,
> which we are re-using, is already consistent with base GMPLS - what
> is advertised for an interface is a single switching type, the types
> of client signals it supports, and its available bandwidth.
> 
> How does the existence of this draft, which will have no new
> information, help the chairs gauge rough consensus on this issue in
> the WG, 

It depends on which issue you are talking about.  If talking about the
general issue as discussed above, I hope it will close it for the future.

If talking about my (individual, not chair) proposal of using multiple
SC types for OTNv3, I don't think it immediately does.  What it will do
is provide context for that proposal.  In the interim, I recommend (as a
WG participant, not chair) tabling discussion on my proposal until we
know which way the general issue is resolved.

> especially since rough consensus seems to already exist?
> (I.e., the editors, authors, and contributors of the OTN routing
> draft would seem to represent a substantial portion of the WG.)

Well if the WG used this as the sole measure, consensus could have been
declared in Maastrict.

Lou

PS I've noted where I'm speaking as an individual WG participant and
where I'm expressing opinions as a Co-chair as this message contains both.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:22 PM
>> To: John E Drake
>> Cc: Sadler, Jonathan B.; BELOTTI, SERGIO (SERGIO); CCAMP
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: R: OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82
>> (Issue 1/2)
>>
>>
>> On 12/20/2011 2:02 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>>> In an earlier message I asked if you were interested in putting a
>> draft
>>>>> together to document your proposed change to the base GMPLS specs.
>>> [
>>> [JD]  There are no changes to the base GMPLS specs.  We are not
>> changing the base definition of PSC 1-4 and what we are defining is
>> completely consistent with SDH/SONET.
>>>
>>
>> John,
>> 	In an earlier message you said:
>>
>> On 11/30/2011 5:23 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>> Yes, I think that's fair.
>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:51 PM
>>>>> To: John E Drake
>>>>> Cc: Daniele Ceccarelli; CCAMP
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] OSPF OTN considerations post IETF 82 (Issue
>> 1/2)
>>>>>
>>>>> So you're basically arguing that SC shouldn't be used to indicate
>>>>> different levels of hierarchy, i.e., usage (b) in my earlier
>> message,
>>>>> and that the definition of PSC-1 -> n was flawed.  Right?
>>>>>
>>>>> Which then reduces the meaning of SC to simply and indicator of
>> label
>>>>> type and ISCD format indicator.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this your position?
>>>>>
>>
>> Deprecating PSC1-4 and making SC Type just an indicator of label and
>> ISCD format will be covered in the draft. The draft wouldn't say
>> anything specifically about OTN.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>>
>>
> 

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:17:12 -0800
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From lberger@labn.net  Wed Dec 21 05:10:46 2011
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References: <B5630A95D803744A81C51AD4040A6DAA2293E672A9@ESESSCMS0360.eemea.ericsson.se>	<F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF825CB0593@SZXEML520-MBX.china.huawei.com>	<4EDE3E19.6010303@orange.com>	<F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF825CC18AB@SZXEML520-MBS.china.huawei.com>	<4EF0A18F.4080000@orange.com>	<5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517AFD@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>	<F050945A8D8E9A44A71039532BA344D819BA8E25@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>	<5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517B62@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <5292FFA96EC22A4386067E9DBCC0CD2B010A0998FB37@EX-NAP.tellabs-west.tellabsinc.net> <4EF0B788.7020700@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517BE2@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4EF0C99B.4020505@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B517E4F@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4EF0EE83.3060601@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B518072@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4EF11904.30708@labn.net> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A54B5182B1@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFI6ICBPU1BGIE9UTiBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9u?= =?gb2312?b?cyBwb3N0IElFVEYgODIgKElzc3VlIDEvMik=?=
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John,
	I'm a little at a loss as to what you are looking for / arguing about
at the moment.  I've already said that (a) that I think we should
"table[ing] discussion on my [OTN] proposal" and (b) I (with others)
will submit an individual draft on the general issue.

You've stated that (b) serves no purpose nor contains any technical
content.  Given that the draft doesn't exist at the moment, I guess your
statement is technically correct at this time. Once the draft is
submitted, I'll be happy to resume this argument based on the actual
content of the draft.

Lou

On 12/20/2011 7:17 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> See below for specific responses (as a WG participant).
>> > 
>>> > > How does the existence of this draft, which will have no new
>>> > > information, help the chairs gauge rough consensus on this issue in
>>> > > the WG,
>> > 
>> > It depends on which issue you are talking about.  If talking about the
>> > general issue as discussed above, I hope it will close it for the
>> > future.
>> > 
>> > If talking about my (individual, not chair) proposal of using multiple
>> > SC types for OTNv3, I don't think it immediately does.  What it will do
>> > is provide context for that proposal.  In the interim, I recommend (as
>> > a
>> > WG participant, not chair) tabling discussion on my proposal until we
>> > know which way the general issue is resolved.
> [JD]  The only issue is your specific proposal.  
> 

From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Dec 21 06:02:49 2011
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Thread-Topic: Call for Papers for the "International Workshop on Cross-Stratum Optimization for Cloud Computing and Distributed Networked Applications"
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[Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this message]

First Call for Papers for the "International Workshop on Cross-Stratum Opti=
mization for Cloud Computing and Distributed Networked Applications"
http://cccso.net/

Co-located with the 10th IEEE International Symposium on Parallel and Distr=
ibuted Processing with Applications, ISPA 2012
http://www.arcos.inf.uc3m.es/ispa12/index.shtml
July 10-13, 2012
Leganes, Madrid, Spain

Aims and Scope
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
The current lack of interaction between networked applications and the unde=
rlying network during service provisioning cause inefficiencies on the use =
of network resources which can negatively impact the quality expectations o=
f the final consumers of those applications.

Typical networked applications are offered through Information Technology (=
IT) resources (as computing and storage facilities) residing in data center=
s. Data centers then provide the physical and virtual infrastructure in whi=
ch applications and services are provided. Since the data centers are usual=
ly distributed geographically around a network, many decisions made in the =
control and management of application services, such as where to instantiat=
e another service instance, or which data center out of several is assigned=
 to a new customer, can have a significant impact on the state of the netwo=
rk. In the same way, the capabilities and state of the network can have a m=
ajor impact on application performance.

Cross-stratum optimization (CSO) is referred to the combined optimization o=
f both the application and the network components that aims to provide join=
t resource optimization, responsiveness to quickly changing demands from/to=
 application to/from network, enhanced service resilience using cooperative=
 recovery techniques, and quality of experience assurance by a better use o=
f existing network and application resources, among others.

The CSO involves the overall optimization of application layer and network =
resources by envisioning next generation architecture for interactions and =
exchanges between the two layers to improve service continuity, performance=
 guarantees, scalability and manageability. The goal of this workshop is to=
 promote the research interest on the optimal integration of application an=
d network resources.

This workshop aims to explore the challenges and issues faced by cloud comp=
uting and data center integration with networks. Among the key areas of inv=
estigation to be discussed in the workshop are as follows:

.- Application/network integration architectures and subsystems
.- Use cases, business models and requirements for application/network inte=
gration
.- Control/management issues for application/network integration
.- Network virtualization and its impact for application/network integratio=
n
.- Network-aware application/cloud computing
.- Flexible and scalable networking solutions for distributed Data Centers
.- Joint application/network reliability and security
.- Experimental/trial experience
.- Scalability
.- Joint/shared performance and fault monitoring
.- Multi-domain issues

Important Dates
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Paper Submission Deadline: 03 February 2012
Paper Acceptance Notification: 30 March 2012
Camera-ready Paper Submissions: 13 April 2012
Tentative workshop day: 10 July 2012 (to be confirmed)

Venue
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Leganes, Spain

Submision guidelines
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Target papers should describe original and unpublished work. The submission=
 process will be done online by using EasyChair submission system:
http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=3Dispa2012
choosing this workshop among the various workshops held in conjunction with=
 ISPA-2012
Details on the paper format and length will be provided soon.

Technical Program Committee
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Richard Alimi (Google, USA)
Greg Bernstein (Grotto Networking, USA)
TaeSang Choi (ETRI, Korea)
Nicola Ciulli (Nextworks, Italy)
Oscar Gonzalez de Dios (Telef=F3nica I+D, Spain)
Volker Hilt (Bell Labs, USA)
Giada Landi (Nextworks, Italy)
Dan Li (Huawei, China)
Thomas D. Nadeau (CA Technologies, USA)
Kohei Shiomoto (NTT, Japan)
Ning So (Verizon, USA)
Hui Yang (Beijing University Post and Telecommunication (BUPT), China)
Yang Richard Yang (Yale University, USA)

Workshop Organizing Committee
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
Young Lee, Huawei Technologies (leeyoung (at) huawei.com)
Luis M. Contreras, Telef=F3nica I+D (lmcm (at) tid.es)
Andrea Fumagalli, The University of Texas at Dallas (andreaf (at) utdallas.=
edu)

______________
Young Lee
Huawei Technologies

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this me=
ssage]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First Call for Papers for the &#8220;International W=
orkshop on Cross-Stratum Optimization for Cloud Computing and Distributed N=
etworked Applications&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">http://cccso.net/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Co-located with the 10th IEEE International Symposiu=
m on Parallel and Distributed Processing with Applications, ISPA 2012<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">http://www.arcos.inf.uc3m.es/ispa12/index.shtml<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">July 10-13, 2012<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Leganes, Madrid, Spain<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Aims and Scope<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The current lack of interaction between networked ap=
plications and the underlying network during service provisioning cause ine=
fficiencies on the use of network resources which can negatively impact the=
 quality expectations of the final
 consumers of those applications.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Typical networked applications are offered through I=
nformation Technology (IT) resources (as computing and storage facilities) =
residing in data centers. Data centers then provide the physical and virtua=
l infrastructure in which applications
 and services are provided. Since the data centers are usually distributed =
geographically around a network, many decisions made in the control and man=
agement of application services, such as where to instantiate another servi=
ce instance, or which data center
 out of several is assigned to a new customer, can have a significant impac=
t on the state of the network. In the same way, the capabilities and state =
of the network can have a major impact on application performance.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cross-stratum optimization (CSO) is referred to the =
combined optimization of both the application and the network components th=
at aims to provide joint resource optimization, responsiveness to quickly c=
hanging demands from/to application
 to/from network, enhanced service resilience using cooperative recovery te=
chniques, and quality of experience assurance by a better use of existing n=
etwork and application resources, among others.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The CSO involves the overall optimization of applica=
tion layer and network resources by envisioning next generation architectur=
e for interactions and exchanges between the two layers to improve service =
continuity, performance guarantees,
 scalability and manageability. The goal of this workshop is to promote the=
 research interest on the optimal integration of application and network re=
sources.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This workshop aims to explore the challenges and iss=
ues faced by cloud computing and data center integration with networks. Amo=
ng the key areas of investigation to be discussed in the workshop are as fo=
llows:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Application/network integration architectures and=
 subsystems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Use cases, business models and requirements for a=
pplication/network integration<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Control/management issues for application/network=
 integration<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Network virtualization and its impact for applica=
tion/network integration<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Network-aware application/cloud computing<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Flexible and scalable networking solutions for di=
stributed Data Centers<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Joint application/network reliability and securit=
y<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Experimental/trial experience<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Scalability<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Joint/shared performance and fault monitoring<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">.- Multi-domain issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Important Dates<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Paper Submission Deadline: 03 February 2012<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Paper Acceptance Notification: 30 March 2012<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Camera-ready Paper Submissions: 13 April 2012<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tentative workshop day: 10 July 2012 (to be confirme=
d)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Venue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, =
Leganes, Spain<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Submision guidelines<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Target papers should describe original and unpublish=
ed work. The submission process will be done online by using EasyChair subm=
ission system:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">http://www.easychair.org/conferences/?conf=3Dispa201=
2 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">choosing this workshop among the various workshops h=
eld in conjunction with ISPA-2012<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Details on the paper format and length will be provi=
ded soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Technical Program Committee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Richard Alimi (Google, USA)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg Bernstein (Grotto Networking, USA)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">TaeSang Choi (ETRI, Korea)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Nicola Ciulli (Nextworks, Italy)<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Oscar Gonzalez de Dios (Telef=F3ni=
ca I&#43;D, Spain)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Volker Hilt (Bell Labs, USA)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Giada Landi (Nextworks, Italy)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dan Li (Huawei, China)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thomas D. Nadeau (CA Technologies, USA)<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kohei Shiomoto (NTT, Japan)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ning So (Verizon, USA)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hui Yang (Beijing University Post and Telecommunicat=
ion (BUPT), China)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yang Richard Yang (Yale University, USA)<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Workshop Organizing Committee<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Young Lee, Huawei Technologies (leeyoung (at) huawei=
.com)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">Luis M. Contreras, Telef=F3nica I&=
#43;D (lmcm (at) tid.es)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Andrea Fumagalli, The University of Texas at Dallas =
(andreaf (at) utdallas.edu)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES">______________<span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Young Lee<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"ES" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Huawei Tec=
hnologies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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--_000_7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1718B3FE67dfweml508mbschi_--

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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
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From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Fri Dec 23 07:15:50 2011
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "Gruman, Fred" <fred.gruman@us.fujitsu.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 16:15:47 +0100
Thread-Topic: ODUflex questons for OTN OSPF, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ODUflex questons for OTN OSPF, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00
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Hi Fred,

please find answers in line.

BR and once again thanks for the careful review.
Daniele

________________________________
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of G=
ruman, Fred
Sent: venerd=EC 16 dicembre 2011 21.38
To: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] ODUflex questons for OTN OSPF, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf=
-g709v3-00

Hi Daniele,

I have a few questions on the advertisement of ODUflex.

1) For the advertisement of the Max LSP Bandwidth of the ODUflex(CBR) signa=
l type, it is not clear how the Max LSP BW should be computed. Specifically=
, should the BW advertisement take into account the HO-OPU bit rate toleran=
ce?  I see a couple of possibilities:
  a. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal bit =
rate)
  b. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available TS) * (ODTUk.ts nominal bit =
rate) * (1-HO OPUk bit rate tolerance)
[[DC]] I had the chance to speack only with some of the authors and not all=
, but our preference would be b. It should be easier for the head node from=
 a computational point of view. I don't see any other difference between th=
e two options. Is there any other one i'm missing?

If bit rate tolerance is not accounted in the BW advertisement, then the pa=
th computation function would need to adjust for this factor based on an im=
plicit assumption of the tolerance, which is 20 ppm for the HO OPUk support=
ed at this time.

In general, it would be nice to have examples of the Max LSP BW for ODUflex=
(CBR) and ODUflex(GFP).

2) It is my understanding that the TSG bits indicate the tributary slot gra=
nularity when the ODUk serves as a HO-ODU. It is not clear how to fill in t=
he TSG field for those ODUk signal types that do not support the muxing of =
LO-ODU. This would apply to ODU0, ODU2e and ODUflex. Should the field be se=
t to 00 (currently reserved) or a different value?

There was a more general question on if this field was still needed on a pe=
r signal type. Given that link bundling requires the same multiplexing hier=
archy across all links in the bundle, does the need for this field go away.=
 Or do we foresee that there could be cases where different TSG could be su=
pported in different levels of the multiplexing hierarchy.
[[DC]] Issue already solved in the -01 version. The -01 version has not bee=
n published yet as we were waiting for the SC issue to be solved. By the wa=
y the idea was to have

      - TSG: Tributary Slot Granularity (3bit): Used for the
      advertisement of the supported Tributary Slot granularity

         - 0 - Reserved

         - 1 - 1.25 Gbps/2.5Gbps

         - 2 - 2.5 Gbps only

         - 3 - 1.25 Gbps only

         - 4 - Don't care

         - 5-7 - Reserved
[[DC]]

      Where value 1 is used on those interfaces where the fallback
      procedure is enabled and the default value of 1.25 Gbps can be
       falled back to 2.5 if needed.  Values 2 and 3 are used where there
      is no chance to modify the TSG.  In the former case the interface
      being advertised is a G.709v1 and in the latter the interface is a
      G.709v3 with fallback procedure disabled.  Value 4 is used for non
      multiplexed signal (i.e. non OTN client).



3) For a link that supports the 3 types of ODUflex (CBR, GFP-resizable, GFP=
-non-resizable), an implementation would need to advertise the Max LSP BW a=
nd Unreserved BW against signal types of 20, 21, and 22. For efficiency, is=
 it permitted for implementations that support both GFP-resizable and GFP-n=
on-resizable, they MAY advertise the BW under the resizable signal type (21=
) and have it implicitly understood that it also supports GFP-non-resizable=
 with the same BW.  (Note that implementations could advertise them separat=
ely, especially if the BW were different).  Or MUST implementations adverti=
se GFP-resizable (ST=3D21) and GFP-non-resizable (ST=3D22) explicitly.
[[DC]] MAY should be fine.


Thanks,
Fred

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Fred,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>please find answers in line.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>BR and once again thanks for the careful=20
review.<BR>Daniele</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px soli=
d; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=20
  [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gruman,=20
  Fred<BR><B>Sent:</B> venerd=EC 16 dicembre 2011 21.38<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  ccamp@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [CCAMP] ODUflex questons for OTN OSPF,=
=20
  draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-00<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DWordSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Daniele,<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>I have a few questions on the advertisement of=20
  ODUflex.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>1) For the advertisement of the Max LSP Bandwidth of=
 the=20
  ODUflex(CBR) signal type, it is not clear how the Max LSP BW should be=20
  computed. Specifically, should the BW advertisement take into account the=
=20
  HO-OPU bit rate tolerance?&nbsp; I see a couple of=20
  possibilities:<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; a. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available =
TS) *=20
  (ODTUk.ts nominal bit rate)<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; b. Max LSP BW ODUflex (CBR) =3D (# available =
TS) *=20
  (ODTUk.ts nominal bit rate) * (1-HO OPUk bit rate tolerance)<BR><SPAN=20
  class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[[=
DC]]&nbsp;I=20
  had the chance to speack only with some of the authors and not all, but o=
ur=20
  preference would be b. It should be easier for the head node&nbsp;from a=
=20
  computational point of view. I don't see any other difference between the=
 two=20
  options. Is there any other one i'm missing?</FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>If bit rate tolerance is not accounted in the BW=20
  advertisement, then the path computation function would need to adjust fo=
r=20
  this factor based on an implicit assumption of the tolerance, which is 20=
 ppm=20
  for the HO OPUk supported at this time.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>In general, it would be nice to have examples of the=
 Max=20
  LSP BW for ODUflex(CBR) and ODUflex(GFP).<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>2) It is my understanding that the TSG bits indicate=
 the=20
  tributary slot granularity when the ODUk serves as a HO-ODU. It is not cl=
ear=20
  how to fill in the TSG field for those ODUk signal types that do not supp=
ort=20
  the muxing of LO-ODU. This would apply to ODU0, ODU2e and ODUflex. Should=
 the=20
  field be set to 00 (currently reserved) or a different value?<o:p></o:p><=
/P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>There was a more general question on if this field w=
as=20
  still needed on a per signal type. Given that link bundling requires the =
same=20
  multiplexing hierarchy across all links in the bundle, does the need for =
this=20
  field go away. Or do we foresee that there could be cases where different=
 TSG=20
  could be supported in different levels of the multiplexing hierarchy.<BR>=
<SPAN=20
  class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>[[DC]]&nbsp;Issue already solved in the -01 version. The -01 ver=
sion=20
  has not been published yet as we were waiting for the SC issue to be solv=
ed.=20
  By the way the idea was to have</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN=20
  class=3D187550115-23122011>
  <P class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>- TSG:=
=20
  Tributary Slot Granularity (3bit): Used for the<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>adverti=
sement=20
  of the supported Tributary Slot granularity<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 0 - Reserved<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 1 - 1.25 Gbps/2.5Gbps<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 2 - 2.5 Gbps only<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 3 - 1.25 Gbps only<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 4 - Don't care<BR><BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
  </SPAN>- 5-7 - Reserved<BR></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000=
ff><SPAN=20
  class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT size=3D2>[[DC]]&nbsp;</FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT size=3D2><FON=
T=20
  color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>Where v=
alue 1=20
  is used on those interfaces where the fallback<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>procedu=
re is=20
  enabled and the default value of 1.25 Gbps can be<BR><FONT face=3DArial><=
FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D187550115-23122011>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN>falled b=
ack to=20
  2.5 if needed.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Values 2 an=
d 3 are=20
  used where there<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>is no c=
hance=20
  to modify the TSG.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>In the =
former=20
  case the interface<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>being=20
  advertised is a G.709v1 and in the latter the interface is a<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>G.709v3=
 with=20
  fallback procedure disabled.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN>Value 4 is used for non<BR><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN>multipl=
exed=20
  signal (i.e. non OTN client).</FONT></FONT><BR></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT><BR></P></SPAN>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>3) For a link that supports the 3 types of ODUflex (=
CBR,=20
  GFP-resizable, GFP-non-resizable), an implementation would need to advert=
ise=20
  the Max LSP BW and Unreserved BW against signal types of 20, 21, and 22. =
For=20
  efficiency, is it permitted for implementations that support both=20
  GFP-resizable and GFP-non-resizable, they MAY advertise the BW under the=
=20
  resizable signal type (21) and have it implicitly understood that it also=
=20
  supports GFP-non-resizable with the same BW.&nbsp; (Note that implementat=
ions=20
  could advertise them separately, especially if the BW were different).&nb=
sp;=20
  Or MUST implementations advertise GFP-resizable (ST=3D21) and GFP-non-res=
izable=20
  (ST=3D22) explicitly.<BR><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011><FONT face=3DAr=
ial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[[DC]]&nbsp;MAY should be fine.</FONT></SPAN></P=
>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D187550115-23122011>&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p><=
/o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Fred<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, "Sadler, Jonathan B." <Jonathan.Sadler@tellabs.com>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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