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Subject: [CCAMP] New Liaison Statement, "LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on WSON"
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Title: LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on WSON
Submission Date: 2013-11-01
URL of the IETF Web page: http://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1288/

From: ITU-T SG 15  (Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
To: Common Control and Measurement Plane (Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, De=
borah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>)
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>,Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=
,Common Control and Measurement Plane Discussion List <ccamp@ietf.org>,John=
 Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>,Scott Mansfield <Scott.Mansfield@Ericsson.com>,=
Stephen Trowbridge <Steve.Trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,Ghani ABBAS <Ghani=
.Abbas@Ericsson.com>,Malcolm Betts <Malcolm.BETTS@zte.com.cn>,Hiroshi OTA <=
hiroshi.ota@itu.int>,<tsbsg15@itu.int>
Reponse Contact: Peter Stassar <peter.stassar@huawei.com>
Technical Contact: =

Purpose: For information

Body: =

Attachments:

    LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on WSON
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2013-11-01-itu-t=
-sg-15-ccamp-lsr-on-ccamp-liaison-to-itu-t-sg15-q6-and-q12-on-wson-attachme=
nt-1.docx


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Subject: [CCAMP] New Liaison Statement, "LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on flexible grid"
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Title: LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on flexible grid
Submission Date: 2013-11-01
URL of the IETF Web page: http://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1289/

From: ITU-T SG 15  (Greg Jones <greg.jones@itu.int>)
To: Common Control and Measurement Plane (Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, De=
borah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>)
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>,Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>=
,Common Control and Measurement Plane Discussion List <ccamp@ietf.org>,John=
 Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>,Scott Mansfield <Scott.Mansfield@Ericsson.com>,=
Stephen Trowbridge <Steve.Trowbridge@alcatel-lucent.com>,Ghani ABBAS <Ghani=
.Abbas@Ericsson.com>,Malcolm Betts <Malcolm.BETTS@zte.com.cn>,Stephen Shew =
<sshew@ciena.com>,Peter Stassar <Peter.Stassar@huawei.com>,Hiroshi OTA <hir=
oshi.ota@itu.int>,<tsbsg15@itu.int>
Reponse Contact: Peter Stassar <peter.stassar@huawei.com>, Stephen Shew <ss=
hew@ciena.com>
Technical Contact: =

Purpose: For information

Body: =

Attachments:

    LS/r on CCAMP Liaison to ITU-T SG15 Q6 and Q12 on flexible grid
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2013-11-01-itu-t=
-sg-15-ccamp-lsr-on-ccamp-liaison-to-itu-t-sg15-q6-and-q12-on-flexible-grid=
-attachment-1.docx


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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: "pce@ietf.org" <pce@ietf.org>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: bar bof on network control function virtualization
Thread-Index: Ac7YOA5TTVhnef2KRleFQ2nNXtkKdA==
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 01:58:35 +0000
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--_000_7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E17291DD96Fdfweml511mbschi_
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Hi,

There will be held a bar bof on network control function virtualization for=
 transport SDN. If you are interested in this work, feel free to stop by.

Date: November 5, 2013
Time: 8:30-9:30 pm
Place: Plaza B

Here are some related drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lee-network-control-function-virtual=
ization/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lee-pce-app-oriented-arch/

Thanks.
Young Lee

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There will be held a bar bof on network control func=
tion virtualization for transport SDN. If you are interested in this work, =
feel free to stop by.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Date: November 5, 2013<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Time: 8:30-9:30 pm<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Place: Plaza B<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here are some related drafts:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-le=
e-network-control-function-virtualization/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-lee-network-control-function-virtualization/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-le=
e-pce-app-oriented-arch/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lee-pce-ap=
p-oriented-arch/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Young Lee<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From zali@cisco.com  Sun Nov  3 08:12:01 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the =
case where upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;=
Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstre=
am_Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream =
label is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in Pa=
thErr and ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">However, your draft does not mention or cover thi=
s already defined method.&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Thanks</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Arial">Regards =85 Zafar</font></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CE9BDFEB80F98zaliciscocom_--

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about	draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Z=
afar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>1)&nbsp; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation =
is not good design practice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>2)&nbsp; Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guarantee=
d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>3)&nbsp; The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LS=
P is re-signaled<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>4)&nbsp; Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, u=
nlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.&nbsp; This
 means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would require a potenti=
ally unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no gua=
rantee that such a wavelength could be found.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
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t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> IBryskin@advaoptical.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the cas=
e where upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Spe=
cifically, [RFC3473] states that:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_=
Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream lab=
el is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathE=
rr and ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">However, your draft does not mention or cover this a=
lready defined method.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Thanks</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 06:16:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about	draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Thanks John. Let me add a couple of comments that are along the same lines =
as yours.

1.      As you correctly pointed out, in the UNI scenario ingress UNI-N rep=
resents not just itself. In particular, in case of alien wavelength it can =
specify exactly one label in the acceptable label set - the one that has be=
en already agreed upon by all nodes along the path (including the egress UN=
I-C), allocated and bound into the cross-connects. The question is what the=
 ingress UNI-C is supposed to do if it does not like the label signaled in =
the acceptable label set? In this case the ingress UNI-C has no other choic=
e but to tear down the LSP and try the setup again via *guessing* another u=
pstream label, This potentially means a very lengthy ping-pong exacerbated =
by the fact that the disagreement wrt upstream label is discovered at the l=
atest stage of each iteration;

2.      From the point of view of data plane both directions of a bi-direct=
ional LSP are equally important. So it does not make much sense to have a r=
ather flexible way for the label negotiation in one direction, and such a c=
lumsy way to do so for the opposite direction.

3.      Today we do not have a way to say that the upstream label must be a=
ssigned by the network, Nor we have a way to say that a given bi-directiona=
l LSP must use the same label(s) in both directions, i.e. to be label-symme=
trical, while this is by far the most important use case for WDM G LSPs.
Hence the enhancements introduced by the draft.
Cheers,
Igor

From: John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@juniper.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:58 AM
To: Zafar Ali (zali); Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks John. Let me add a=
 couple of comments that are along the same lines as yours.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.55in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As you correctly =
pointed out, in the UNI scenario ingress UNI-N represents not just itself. =
In particular, in case of alien wavelength it can specify
 exactly one label in the acceptable label set &#8211; the one that has bee=
n already agreed upon by all nodes along the path (including the egress UNI=
-C), allocated and bound into the cross-connects. The question is what the =
ingress UNI-C is supposed to do if it
 does not like the label signaled in the acceptable label set? In this case=
 the ingress UNI-C has no other choice but to tear down the LSP and try the=
 setup again via *<b>guessing</b>* another upstream label, This potentially=
 means a very lengthy ping-pong
 exacerbated by the fact that the disagreement wrt upstream label is discov=
ered at the latest stage of each iteration;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.55in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">From the point of=
 view of data plane both directions of a bi-directional LSP are equally imp=
ortant. So it does not make much sense to have a rather
 flexible way for the label negotiation in one direction, and such a clumsy=
 way to do so for the opposite direction.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:.55in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ign=
ore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Today we do not h=
ave a way to say that the upstream label must be assigned by the network, N=
or we have a way to say that a given bi-directional LSP
 must use the same label(s) in both directions, i.e. to be label-symmetrica=
l, while this is by far the most important use case for WDM G LSPs.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hence the enhancements in=
troduced by the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Igor<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> John E Drake [mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zafar Ali (zali); Igor Bryskin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>Zafar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>That because this already defined method has the following issues:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>1)&nbsp; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation =
is not good design practice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>2)&nbsp; Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guarantee=
d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>3)&nbsp; The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LS=
P is re-signaled<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>4)&nbsp; Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, u=
nlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.&nbsp; This
 means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would require a potenti=
ally unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no gua=
rantee that such a wavelength could be found.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the cas=
e where upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Spe=
cifically, [RFC3473] states that:</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_=
Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream lab=
el is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;co=
lor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathE=
rr and ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">However, your draft does not mention or cover this a=
lready defined method.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Thanks</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9A72atlsrvmail10atl_--

From lberger@labn.net  Sun Nov  3 22:22:55 2013
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Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:20:24 -0800
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Reminder to WG draft authors
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WG draft authors,

As usual:

If you are not presenting, please send a status update on your draft --
include any changes that have recently been made, any open discussions
or issues, as well as planned next steps.

Please send this as soon as possible.

Much thanks,
Lou

PS If your draft has been submitted to the IESG for publication, you do
not need to send status...

From zali@cisco.com  Sun Nov  3 22:51:20 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
Thread-Index: AQHO2So/xbIVfxprSkKeIRUhkPhXpA==
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 06:51:11 +0000
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--_000_CE9C5C9D81045zaliciscocom_
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Hi John:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note that m=
any part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled.
This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable label set ha=
s the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementatio=
n can cache the label for the re-signaling time.
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the acceptable=
 label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

--_000_CE9C5C9D81045zaliciscocom_
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi John:&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see in-line.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:5=
7 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaop=
tical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: Comments about draft-b=
eeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Zafar,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">That bec=
ause this already defined method has the following issues:<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp;=
 Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not go=
od design practice.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-T=
E design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debating&nbsp;about a new p=
rocedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a procedure that is alr=
eady implemented and deployed.&nbsp;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2)&nbsp;=
 Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed</span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note t=
hat many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.&=
nbsp;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3)&nbsp;=
 The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is re-s=
ignaled.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>This is an implementation issue.&nbsp;A node sending the acceptable la=
bel set has the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in th=
e acceptable label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g.,&nbsp;UNI-=
N implementation can cache the label for the
 re-signaling time.&nbsp;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">4)&nbsp;=
 Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike Ups=
tream Label Set which exercises the entire
 path.&nbsp; This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would =
require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi=
-hop, with no guarantee that such a wavelength could be found.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the accep=
table label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.&nb=
sp;</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">From=
:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; ">
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt=
; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream=
 label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Specifically, [RFC3=
473] states that:</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is =
received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable=
. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr m=
essages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined m=
ethod.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Thanks</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri,=
 sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Regards =85 Zafar</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-famil=
y: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CE9C5C9D81045zaliciscocom_--

From ramon.casellas@cttc.es  Mon Nov  4 00:07:38 2013
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On 11/04/2013 04:20 AM, Lou Berger wrote:
>
> If you are not presenting, please send a status update on your draft --
> include any changes that have recently been made, any open discussions
> or issues, as well as planned next steps.

Lou, all

For i.-d. draft-ietf-ccamp-flexi-grid-fwk-00 (no changes from 
draft-ogrcetal-ccamp-flexi-grid-fwk-03)

Next steps:

- incorporate text reflecting ITU-T liaison reply on the non-integer 
values of n and m
- further work on requirements for control plane protocols
- editorial changes
- ...

Thanks
Ramon

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:26:11 +0000
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References: <8569fa4cdb614becb723a6639206f709@BY2PR05MB142.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CE9C5C9D.81045%zali@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <CE9C5C9D.81045%zali@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 10:51 PM
To: John E Drake; IBryskin@advaoptical.com
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Hi John:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.

[JD] You missed the part about "normal protocol operation".'

2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note that m=
any part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.

[JD]  The combination of it being useless and optional is definitely a winn=
ing combination.


3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled.
This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable label set ha=
s the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementatio=
n can cache the label for the re-signaling time.

[JD]  So, each node in the network is going to reserve all of the labels as=
sociated with every acceptable label set it has issued.  The combination of=
 this and 4) is almost guarantees network gridlock.

4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the acceptable=
 label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.

[JD]  That's completely incorrect.  The same procedures are used inside the=
 server network.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali=
@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 10:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; IBryskin@advaoptical.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi John:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please see in-line.&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"=
>jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>Zafar,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>That because this already defined method has the following issues:</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>1)&nbsp; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation =
is not good design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">Use of Path error and notify message is an integra=
l part of the RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debatin=
g&nbsp;about a new procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD] You missed the part about &#8220;norm=
al protocol operation&#8221;.&#8216;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>2)&nbsp; Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guarantee=
d</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">So is the case of newly defined upstream label set=
. Also please note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed usin=
g optional objects.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; The combination of it being use=
less and optional is definitely a winning combination. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>3)&nbsp; The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LS=
P is re-signaled.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">This is an implementation issue.&nbsp;A node sendi=
ng the acceptable label set has the responsibility to guarantee that inform=
ation provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
 re-signaling time. E.g.,&nbsp;UNI-N implementation can cache the label for=
 the re-signaling time.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; So, each node in the network is=
 going to reserve all of the labels associated with every acceptable label =
set it has issued.&nbsp; The combination of this and 4) is almost
 guarantees network gridlock.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>4)&nbsp; Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, u=
nlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.&nbsp; This
 means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would require a potenti=
ally unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no gua=
rantee that such a wavelength could be found.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">In the use case of align wavelength addressed in t=
his draft, the acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-=
C and UNI-N node.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; That&#8217;s completely incorre=
ct.&nbsp; The same procedures are used inside the server network.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;lin=
e-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the cas=
e where upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Spe=
cifically, [RFC3473] states that:</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_=
Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream lab=
el is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathE=
rr and ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">However, your draft does not mention or cover this a=
lready defined method.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Mon Nov  4 08:59:09 2013
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:57:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Zafar,
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.

IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:

John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet. Many matur=
e applications successfully use black for their various purposes. My implem=
entations, for example, use black for pretty much everything..... So, it is=
 not clear which color is lighter, and why do we need other colors at all. =
:=3D)

I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive technica=
l arguments.
Igor



From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
To: John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Hi John:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note that m=
any part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled.
This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable label set ha=
s the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementatio=
n can cache the label for the re-signaling time.
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the acceptable=
 label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-b=
ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zafar,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">1)&nbsp; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation=
 is not good design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">Use of Path error and notify message is an integra=
l part of the RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debatin=
g&nbsp;about a new procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is =
something like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">John: I believe that white is a lighter color than=
 black.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the=
 color pallet. Many mature applications successfully use black for their va=
rious purposes. My implementations, for example, use black
 for pretty much everything&#8230;.. So, it is not clear which color is lig=
hter, and why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are =
not constructive technical arguments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">Igor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@c=
isco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi John:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please see in-line.&nbsp;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"=
>jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>Zafar,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>That because this already defined method has the following issues:</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>1)&nbsp; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation =
is not good design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">Use of Path error and notify message is an integra=
l part of the RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debatin=
g&nbsp;about a new procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>2)&nbsp; Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guarantee=
d</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">So is the case of newly defined upstream label set=
. Also please note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed usin=
g optional objects.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>3)&nbsp; The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LS=
P is re-signaled.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">This is an implementation issue.&nbsp;A node sendi=
ng the acceptable label set has the responsibility to guarantee that inform=
ation provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
 re-signaling time. E.g.,&nbsp;UNI-N implementation can cache the label for=
 the re-signaling time.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"=
>4)&nbsp; Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, u=
nlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.&nbsp; This
 means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would require a potenti=
ally unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no gua=
rantee that such a wavelength could be found.</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">In the use case of align wavelength addressed in t=
his draft, the acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-=
C and UNI-N node.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"color=
:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;;color:black">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the cas=
e where upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Spe=
cifically, [RFC3473] states that:</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_=
Label object is received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream lab=
el is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathE=
rr and ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">However, your draft does not mention or cover this a=
lready defined method.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar</span><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:42:35 +0000
Message-ID: <CE9D1762.81193%zali@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Igor, John-

Please see in-line.

From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "jdrake@juniper.net<mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.

IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:

John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet. Many matur=
e applications successfully use black for their various purposes. My implem=
entations, for example, use black for pretty much everything=85.. So, it is=
 not clear which color is lighter, and why do we need other colors at all. =
:=3D)

I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive technica=
l arguments.
Igor

Hi Igor and John:

This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running code=
 has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the running code is direct=
ly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not constructive technical argu=
ments"! Last I heard we believed in running code (See your T-shirt from the=
 election day from IETF Atlanta).

Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and downstream =
alien wavelength are different. When upstream and downstream alien waveleng=
th are same, use of acceptable label set and label set objects constitute t=
he running code. However, your draft neither makes that applicability state=
ment nor makes any mention or cover or reference to procedure I quoted from=
 RFC3473.

Thanks

Regards=85Zafar



From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
To: John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Hi John:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note that m=
any part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled.
This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable label set ha=
s the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementatio=
n can cache the label for the re-signaling time.
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the acceptable=
 label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Igor, John-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see in-line.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57=
 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"=
>jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: Comments about draft-b=
eeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Zafar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp=
; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not g=
ood design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RS=
VP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debating&nbsp;about a n=
ew procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is something like t=
his:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet. M=
any mature applications successfully use black for their various purposes. =
My implementations, for example, use
 black for pretty much everything=85.. So, it is not clear which color is l=
ighter, and why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive=
 technical arguments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Igor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>Hi Igor and John:&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running=
 code has no merit at IETF :)&nbsp;This is especially when the running code=
 is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &quot;not constructive=
 technical arguments&quot;!&nbsp;Last I heard we believed
 in running code (See your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta)=
.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and downst=
ream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and downstream&nbsp;alie=
n wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and label set objects co=
nstitute the running code.&nbsp;However, your
 draft neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or =
cover or reference to procedure I quoted from&nbsp;RFC3473.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards=85Zafar&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
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soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:=
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;=
 "> Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi John:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Please see in-line.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Regards =85 Zafar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; color: black; ">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Zafar,</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">That bec=
ause this already defined method has the following issues:</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp;=
 Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not go=
od design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RS=
VP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debating&nbsp;about a n=
ew procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2)&nbsp;=
 Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please no=
te that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objec=
ts.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3)&nbsp;=
 The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is re-s=
ignaled.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">This is an implementation issue.&nbsp;A node sending the acceptabl=
e label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information provides i=
n the acceptable label set remains valid
 for re-signaling time. E.g.,&nbsp;UNI-N implementation can cache the label=
 for the re-signaling time.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">4)&nbsp;=
 Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike Ups=
tream Label Set which exercises the entire
 path.&nbsp; This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would =
require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi=
-hop, with no guarantee that such a wavelength could be found.</span><span =
style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the a=
cceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node=
.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">John</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 black; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream=
 label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Specifically, [RFC3=
473] states that:</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is =
received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable=
. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr m=
essages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined m=
ethod.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Regards =85 Zafar</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 18:24:40 +0000
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References: <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9B93@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com>, <CE9D1762.81193%zali@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Zafar,

Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your response=
 is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you but unimpressed=
.

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@=
cisco.com>> wrote:

Igor, John-

Please see in-line.

From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "jdrake@juniper.net<mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.

IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:

John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet. Many matur=
e applications successfully use black for their various purposes. My implem=
entations, for example, use black for pretty much everything=85.. So, it is=
 not clear which color is lighter, and why do we need other colors at all. =
:=3D)

I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive technica=
l arguments.
Igor

Hi Igor and John:

This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running code=
 has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the running code is direct=
ly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not constructive technical argu=
ments"! Last I heard we believed in running code (See your T-shirt from the=
 election day from IETF Atlanta).

Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and downstream =
alien wavelength are different. When upstream and downstream alien waveleng=
th are same, use of acceptable label set and label set objects constitute t=
he running code. However, your draft neither makes that applicability state=
ment nor makes any mention or cover or reference to procedure I quoted from=
 RFC3473.

Thanks

Regards=85Zafar



From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
To: John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Hi John:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>" <IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-la=
bel-00

Zafar,
That because this already defined method has the following issues:
1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not=
 good design practice.
Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RSVP-TE des=
ign. Also please note that we are not debating about a new procedure being =
proposed but talking about a procedure that is already implemented and depl=
oyed.
2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed
So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please note that m=
any part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objects.
3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is r=
e-signaled.
This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable label set ha=
s the responsibility to guarantee that information provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementatio=
n can cache the label for the re-signaling time.
4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike =
Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire path.  This means that its us=
e to determine a valid wavelength would require a potentially unbounded num=
ber of crankbacks, both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a=
 wavelength could be found.
In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the acceptable=
 label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node.
Yours Irrespectively,

John

From:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zafar Ali (zali)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
To: IBryskin@advaoptical.com<mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00

Hi Igor and co-authors-

Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream label =
may not be acceptable to a downstream node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states =
that:
"when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received, the r=
eceiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable. If the label =
is not acceptable, the receiver MUST issue a PathErr message with a "Routin=
g problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated PathErr messa=
ge MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object".
Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr messages=
 [RFC3473].

However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined method.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

--_000_664B8B2674614C89B7484524C2307D9Ejunipernet_
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<div>Zafar,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your res=
ponse is that you really really like RFC3473. &nbsp;I'm happy for you but u=
nimpressed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div>Igor, John-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see in-line.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57=
 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"=
>jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: Comments about draft-b=
eeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Zafar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp=
; Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not g=
ood design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RS=
VP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debating&nbsp;about a n=
ew procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is something like t=
his:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet. M=
any mature applications successfully use black for their various purposes. =
My implementations, for example, use
 black for pretty much everything=85.. So, it is not clear which color is l=
ighter, and why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive=
 technical arguments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Igor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div>Hi Igor and John:&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running=
 code has no merit at IETF :)&nbsp;This is especially when the running code=
 is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &quot;not constructive=
 technical arguments&quot;!&nbsp;Last I heard we believed
 in running code (See your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta)=
.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and downst=
ream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and downstream&nbsp;alie=
n wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and label set objects co=
nstitute the running code.&nbsp;However, your
 draft neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or =
cover or reference to procedure I quoted from&nbsp;RFC3473.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards=85Zafar&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
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<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:=
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;=
 "> Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Hi John:&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Please see in-line.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Regards =85 Zafar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; color: black; ">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.c=
om</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Zafar,</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">That bec=
ause this already defined method has the following issues:</span><span styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">1)&nbsp;=
 Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol operation is not go=
od design practice.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the RS=
VP-TE design. Also please note that we are not&nbsp;debating&nbsp;about a n=
ew procedure being proposed but&nbsp;talking about&nbsp;a
 procedure that is already implemented and deployed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">2)&nbsp;=
 Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not guaranteed</span><=
span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please no=
te that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using optional objec=
ts.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">3)&nbsp;=
 The information it provides may be out of date by the time the LSP is re-s=
ignaled.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">This is an implementation issue.&nbsp;A node sending the acceptabl=
e label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information provides i=
n the acceptable label set remains valid
 for re-signaling time. E.g.,&nbsp;UNI-N implementation can cache the label=
 for the re-signaling time.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0in"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">4)&nbsp;=
 Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by hop, unlike Ups=
tream Label Set which exercises the entire
 path.&nbsp; This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength would =
require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks, both single and multi=
-hop, with no guarantee that such a wavelength could be found.</span><span =
style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the a=
cceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and UNI-N node=
.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span style=3D"color:black"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rg=
b(31, 73, 125); ">John</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color:=
 black; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical=
.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-=
upstream-label-00</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Hi Igor and co-authors-&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where upstream=
 label may not be acceptable to a downstream node.&nbsp;Specifically, [RFC3=
473] states that:</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">&quot;<i>when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is =
received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable=
. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
</i><b>MUST</b><i> issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing problem/Una=
cceptable label value&quot; indication. The generated PathErr message MAY i=
nclude an Acceptable Label Set Object</i>&quot;.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and ResvErr m=
essages [RFC3473].</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">However, your draft does not mention or cover this already defined m=
ethod.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Thanks</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-heigh=
t:normal">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: bl=
ack; ">Regards =85 Zafar</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>

--_000_664B8B2674614C89B7484524C2307D9Ejunipernet_--

From lberger@labn.net  Mon Nov  4 11:18:44 2013
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 14:18:34 -0500
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>,  "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
References: <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9B93@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com>, <CE9D1762.81193%zali@cisco.com> <664B8B26-7461-4C89-B748-4524C2307D9E@juniper.net>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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John, (authors)

	Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
limitations the draft is focusing on.

There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected
uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful
when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the
use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a
bidirectional LSP.)

So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying
to address is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream
labels?

The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value
allocation.  IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for
completeness?

Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?

Lou

On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Zafar,
> 
> Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your
> response is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you but
> unimpressed.
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com
> <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Igor, John- 
>>
>> Please see in-line. 
>>
>> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "jdrake@juniper.net
>> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net
>> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>> Subject: RE: Comments about
>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>     Zafar,
>>
>>     1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>     operation is not good design practice.
>>
>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>     already implemented and deployed. 
>>
>>      
>>
>>     IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
>>
>>      
>>
>>     John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>>
>>     Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
>>     Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
>>     purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
>>     much everything….. So, it is not clear which color is lighter, and
>>     why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>>
>>      
>>
>>     I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
>>     technical arguments.
>>
>>     Igor
>>
>>      
>>
>> Hi Igor and John: 
>>
>> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running
>> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the running code
>> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not constructive
>> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code (See
>> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta). 
>>
>> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and
>> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
>> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and
>> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft
>> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or
>> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473. 
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Regards…Zafar 
>>
>>      
>>
>>      
>>
>>     *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>>     *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>     *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>     *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Hi John: 
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Please see in-line. 
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>      
>>
>>     Regards … Zafar
>>
>>      
>>
>>     *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>"
>>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>     *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,
>>     "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>     <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>      
>>
>>         Zafar,
>>
>>         That because this already defined method has the following issues:
>>
>>         1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>         operation is not good design practice.
>>
>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>     already implemented and deployed. 
>>
>>         2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>>         guaranteed
>>
>>     So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
>>     note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>>     optional objects. 
>>
>>         3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>>         the LSP is re-signaled.
>>
>>     This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>>     label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>>     provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>     re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
>>     for the re-signaling time. 
>>
>>         4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>>         hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>>         path.  This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>>         would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>>         both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>         wavelength could be found.
>>
>>     In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
>>     acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
>>     UNI-N node. 
>>
>>         Yours Irrespectively,
>>
>>          
>>
>>         John
>>
>>          
>>
>>         *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>         [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>         *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>         *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>         *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>         *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>         draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>          
>>
>>         Hi Igor and co-authors- 
>>
>>          
>>
>>         Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>>         upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>         node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>
>>         "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>>         received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>>         is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>>         /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>         problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>>         PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/". 
>>
>>         Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>>         ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>
>>          
>>
>>         However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>>         defined method. 
>>
>>          
>>
>>         Thanks
>>
>>          
>>
>>         Regards … Zafar
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 


From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Mon Nov  4 13:51:38 2013
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 21:51:24 +0000
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about	draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Hi Lou,
Please, see my comments in-line.

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:19 PM
To: John E Drake; Zafar Ali (zali)
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-ups=
tream-label-00

John, (authors)

	Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific limitations=
 the draft is focusing on.

There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected uses a=
nd probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful when chang=
ing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the use of the upst=
ream label object as the basic object that indicates a bidirectional LSP.)

IB>> There is no intention to do so.

So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying to a=
ddress is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream labels?

IB>> Correct. Considering that both directions are equally important for th=
e LSP user, it does not make much sense to have different tools to negotiat=
e labels in each direction.
But there are other limitations as well. See below.

The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value allocat=
ion.  IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for completeness?

IB>> Even in case of WDM layer there are scenarios (e.g. single-fiber confi=
gurations) when the same wavelength cannot be used for both directions. For=
 non-WDM layer it is perfectly OK to use label-asymmetrical LSPs. So we do =
want to maintain both options.

Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?
IB>> Today there is no way to *require* a bi-directional LSP to be label-sy=
mmetrical.


Lou

On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> Zafar,
>=20
> Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your=20
> response is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you=20
> but unimpressed.
>=20
> John
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com=20
> <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
>=20
>> Igor, John-
>>
>> Please see in-line.=20
>>
>> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,=20
>> "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net=20
>> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org=20
>> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>> Subject: RE: Comments about
>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>     Zafar,
>>
>>     1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>     operation is not good design practice.
>>
>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>     already implemented and deployed.=20
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>>
>>     Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
>>     Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
>>     purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
>>     much everything..... So, it is not clear which color is lighter, and
>>     why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
>>     technical arguments.
>>
>>     Igor
>>
>>     =20
>>
>> Hi Igor and John:=20
>>
>> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that=20
>> running code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the=20
>> running code is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not=20
>> constructive technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in=20
>> running code (See your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>>
>> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and=20
>> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and=20
>> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and=20
>> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft=20
>> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or=20
>> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Regards...Zafar
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>>     *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>     *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>     *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     Hi John:=20
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     Please see in-line.=20
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     Regards ... Zafar
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>     *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>"
>>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>     *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,
>>     "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>     <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>     =20
>>
>>         Zafar,
>>
>>         That because this already defined method has the following issue=
s:
>>
>>         1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>         operation is not good design practice.
>>
>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>     already implemented and deployed.=20
>>
>>         2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>>         guaranteed
>>
>>     So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
>>     note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>>     optional objects.=20
>>
>>         3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>>         the LSP is re-signaled.
>>
>>     This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>>     label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>>     provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>     re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
>>     for the re-signaling time.=20
>>
>>         4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>>         hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>>         path.  This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>>         would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>>         both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>         wavelength could be found.
>>
>>     In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
>>     acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
>>     UNI-N node.=20
>>
>>         Yours Irrespectively,
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         John
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>         [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>         *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>         *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>         *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>         *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>         draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         Hi Igor and co-authors-
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>>         upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>         node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>
>>         "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>>         received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>>         is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>>         /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>         problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>>         PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".=20
>>
>>         Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>>         ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>>         defined method.=20
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         Thanks
>>
>>         =20
>>
>>         Regards ... Zafar
>>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20

_______________________________________________
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From vishnupavan@gmail.com  Mon Nov  4 14:49:52 2013
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References: <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9B93@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com> <CE9D1762.81193%zali@cisco.com> <664B8B26-7461-4C89-B748-4524C2307D9E@juniper.net> <5277F30A.7010308@labn.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:49:48 -0500
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From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Lou,

The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards
compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the
fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not
mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all and
sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existing
extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that we are
looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of the existing
extensions.

Base requirement  :
Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an
upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read downstream)
to assign it instead.

Corollary requirements :
1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned upstream
label without having to specify any inputs on what label needs to get
picked.
2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned upstream
label and also specify some choices for the label that needs to get picked.
3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label returned
in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions. In practice,
most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each hop along the path
of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed by default. Hence,
there is a need to have a mechanism for the ingress to request "label
symmetricity" at each hop along the path of the LSP.

Can you somehow fit  a solution using the current extensions and cater to
the above requirements?
We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list was to set
a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition. The idea
was that the downstream node would then respond with a PATH-ERR carrying an
ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have provided a list of reasons on why
that isn't a great idea. Let me add another point -
- As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the
PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case
(discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message,  it would
mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelength at the
client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network assigned
upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with the current
semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the case where the
upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. If some implementation
decides to ignore these semantics, how would the network know whether the
ingress-client has already installed this label or not (whether the laser
is already tuned or not).

RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identified by the
presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This draft does
propose 2 other mechanisms:
- The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the PATH
- The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indications, it
would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the network has
assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is allowed to start
signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don't understand how
adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP setup translates to
changing fundamental aspects of the protocol. Implementations that can
support these extensions can. Others can still be happy with their "running
code".

Regards,
-Pavan



On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> John, (authors)
>
>         Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
> limitations the draft is focusing on.
>
> There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected
> uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful
> when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the
> use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a
> bidirectional LSP.)
>
> So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying
> to address is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream
> labels?
>
> The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value
> allocation.  IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for
> completeness?
>
> Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?
>
> Lou
>
> On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> > Zafar,
> >
> > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your
> > response is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you but
> > unimpressed.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com
> > <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Igor, John-
> >>
> >> Please see in-line.
> >>
> >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
> >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
> >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "jdrake@juniper.net
> >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net
> >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >> Subject: RE: Comments about
> >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>
> >>     Zafar,
> >>
> >>     1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >>     operation is not good design practice.
> >>
> >>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
> >>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
> >>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
> >>     already implemented and deployed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
> >>
> >>     Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
> >>     Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
> >>     purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
> >>     much everything=85.. So, it is not clear which color is lighter, a=
nd
> >>     why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
> >>     technical arguments.
> >>
> >>     Igor
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Igor and John:
> >>
> >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that running
> >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the running code
> >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not constructive
> >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code (See
> >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
> >>
> >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and
> >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
> >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and
> >> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft
> >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or
> >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Regards=85Zafar
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> >>     *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
> >>     *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
> >>     *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     *Subject:* Re: Comments about
> >>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Hi John:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Please see in-line.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Regards =85 Zafar
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>"
> >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >>     *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
> >>     *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,
> >>     "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
> >>     <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >>     *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >>     *Subject: *RE: Comments about
> >>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Zafar,
> >>
> >>         That because this already defined method has the following
> issues:
> >>
> >>         1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >>         operation is not good design practice.
> >>
> >>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
> >>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
> >>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
> >>     already implemented and deployed.
> >>
> >>         2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
> >>         guaranteed
> >>
> >>     So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
> >>     note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
> >>     optional objects.
> >>
> >>         3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time
> >>         the LSP is re-signaled.
> >>
> >>     This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
> >>     label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
> >>     provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
> >>     re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
> >>     for the re-signaling time.
> >>
> >>         4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
> >>         hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
> >>         path.  This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
> >>         would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
> >>         both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
> >>         wavelength could be found.
> >>
> >>     In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
> >>     acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
> >>     UNI-N node.
> >>
> >>         Yours Irrespectively,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >>         [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali=
)
> >>         *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
> >>         *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m
> >
> >>         *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>         *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
> >>         draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Hi Igor and co-authors-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
> >>         upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
> >>         node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
> >>
> >>         "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
> >>         received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
> >>         is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
> >>         /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
> >>         problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
> >>         PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".
> >>
> >>         Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
> >>         ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
> >>         defined method.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Regards =85 Zafar
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

--485b393ab62fb7595604ea61bb54
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Lou,</div><div><br></div><div>The extensions defined =
in this draft do not impose any backwards compatibility issues. The intent =
is definitely not to change the fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you=
 would agree, it is not mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in =
RFC3473 to all and sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where t=
he existing extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements tha=
t we are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of the=
 existing extensions.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Base requirement =A0:=A0</div><div>Need a mechanism for=
 a given node to say that it cannot assign an upstream-label on its own and=
 that it needs the network (read downstream) to assign it instead.</div><di=
v>
<br></div><div>Corollary requirements :<br></div><div>1. Need a mechanism f=
or a given node to ask for a network-assigned upstream label without having=
 to specify any inputs on what label needs to get picked.</div><div>2. Need=
 a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned upstream label =
and also specify some choices for the label that needs to get picked.<br>
</div><div>3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the labe=
l returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions. In =
practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each hop along=
 the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed by defau=
lt. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for the ingress to request &=
quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop along the path of the LSP.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Can you somehow fit =A0a solution using the curre=
nt extensions and cater to the above requirements?=A0</div><div>We believe =
the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list was to set a random UP=
STREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition. The idea was that the=
 downstream node would then respond with a PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_=
LABEL_SET. John and Igor have provided a list of reasons on why that isn&#3=
9;t a great idea. Let me add another point -</div>
<div>- As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in th=
e PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already installed/program=
med this label. In the alien wavelength use-case (discussed in the draft), =
when the network receives this message, =A0it would mean that the laser has=
 already been tuned to this wavelength at the client. That beats the very p=
urpose of requesting a network assigned upstream label. Doesn&#39;t it? So,=
 the point is that with the current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you can=
not use it for the case where the upstream-label hasn&#39;t been installed/=
programmed yet. If some implementation decides to ignore these semantics, h=
ow would the network know whether the ingress-client has already installed =
this label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).</div>
<div><br></div><div>RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request i=
s identified by the presence of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the=
 PATH msg. This draft does propose 2 other mechanisms:<br></div><div>- The =
presence of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag in the PATH</d=
iv>
<div>- The presence of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the PAT=
H</div><div>If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indic=
ations, it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the ne=
twork has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is allowed to sta=
rt signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don&#39;t understand =
how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP setup translates to c=
hanging fundamental aspects of the protocol. Implementations that can suppo=
rt these extensions can. Others can still be happy with their &quot;running=
 code&quot;.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>-Pavan</div><div><br></div></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 4, 2=
013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@=
labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">John, (authors)<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the speci=
fic<br>
limitations the draft is focusing on.<br>
<br>
There&#39;s no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected<br=
>
uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful<br>
when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the<br>
use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a<br>
bidirectional LSP.)<br>
<br>
So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying<br>
to address is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream<br>
labels?<br>
<br>
The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value<br>
allocation. =A0IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for<br>
completeness?<br>
<br>
Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?<br>
<br>
Lou<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:<br>
&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your<br>
&gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473. =A0I&#39;m happy for =
you but<br>
&gt; unimpressed.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; John<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">z=
ali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Igor, John-<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptic=
al.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.co=
m</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&g=
t;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt=
;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;&gt;<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5">&gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 1) =A0Using an error indication as a part of normal protoc=
ol<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part o=
f the<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating =
about a<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure=
 that is<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is somethin=
g like this:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.<=
br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color p=
allet.<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Many mature applications successfully use black for their =
various<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for p=
retty<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 much everything=85.. So, it is not clear which color is li=
ghter, and<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not cons=
tructive<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 technical arguments.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Igor<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that run=
ning<br>
&gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the running c=
ode<br>
&gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &quot;not cons=
tructive<br>
&gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we believed in running cod=
e (See<br>
&gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and<br=
>
&gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and<br>
&gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set =
and<br>
&gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft=
<br>
&gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention o=
r<br>
&gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regards=85Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Subject:* Re: Comments about<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upst=
ream-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Hi John:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Regards =85 Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">=
jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdr=
ake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.n=
et</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net<=
/a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisc=
o.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com"=
>IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@a=
dvaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.o=
rg</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 *Subject: *RE: Comments about<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5">&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned=
-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 That because this already defined method has the f=
ollowing issues:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0Using an error indication as a part of norma=
l protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part o=
f the<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating =
about a<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure=
 that is<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0Acceptable Label Set is optional so its pres=
ence is not<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 guaranteed<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also p=
lease<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed u=
sing<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 optional objects.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3) =A0The information it provides may be out of da=
te by the time<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 the LSP is re-signaled.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 This is an implementation issue. A node sending the accept=
able<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 label set has the responsibility to guarantee that informa=
tion<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache th=
e label<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 for the re-signaling time.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4) =A0Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is ge=
nerated hop by<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the=
 entire<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 path. =A0This means that its use to determine a va=
lid wavelength<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 would require a potentially unbounded number of cr=
ankbacks,<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that =
such a<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 wavelength could be found.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draf=
t, the<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UN=
I-C and<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 UNI-N node.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 John<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
</div></div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *From:*<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf=
.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assig=
ned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hi Igor and co-authors-<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the c=
ase where<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstre=
am<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 &quot;/when a Path message containing an Ups=
tream_Label object is<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 received, the receiver first ver=
ifies that the upstream label<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the=
 receiver<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quot=
;Routing<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 problem/Unacceptable label value=
&quot; indication. The generated<br>
</div>&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable La=
bel Set Object/&quot;.<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in Pat=
hErr and<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ResvErr messages [RFC3473].<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 However, your draft does not mention or cover this=
 already<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 defined method.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Regards =85 Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CCAMP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--485b393ab62fb7595604ea61bb54--

From julien.meuric@orange.com  Mon Nov  4 18:36:34 2013
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 03:35:43 +0100
From: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Hi Pavan.

Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I 
need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.

The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver: you don't 
need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could 
even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages 
to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would 
fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...

Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol. 
This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes: 
requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the 
server job, I am not sure it is desirable.

Julien


On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> Lou,
>
> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards 
> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the 
> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not 
> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all and 
> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existing 
> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that we 
> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of the 
> existing extensions.
>
> Base requirement :
> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an 
> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read 
> downstream) to assign it instead.
>
> Corollary requirements :
> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned 
> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label 
> needs to get picked.
> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned 
> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that needs 
> to get picked.
> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label 
> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions. 
> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each 
> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be 
> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for the 
> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along the path of 
> the LSP.
>
> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and cater 
> to the above requirements?
> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list was to 
> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition. 
> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a 
> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have provided 
> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me add another 
> point -
> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in 
> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already 
> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case 
> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, it 
> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelength at 
> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network 
> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with the 
> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the case 
> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. If some 
> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the 
> network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this 
> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>
> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identified by 
> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This draft 
> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the PATH
> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indications, 
> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the 
> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is allowed 
> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don't 
> understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP setup 
> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol. 
> Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can 
> still be happy with their "running code".
>
> Regards,
> -Pavan
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net 
> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
>
>     John, (authors)
>
>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>
>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected
>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful
>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the
>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a
>     bidirectional LSP.)
>
>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying
>     to address is the inability to support downstream selection of
>     upstream
>     labels?
>
>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value
>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for
>     completeness?
>
>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?
>
>     Lou
>
>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>     > Zafar,
>     >
>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your
>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm happy for
>     you but
>     > unimpressed.
>     >
>     > John
>     >
>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     >
>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >> Igor, John-
>     >>
>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >>
>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>"
>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>
>     >> Zafar,
>     >>
>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >>
>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>     >>
>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
>     >> much everything….. So, it is not clear which color is lighter, and
>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
>     >> technical arguments.
>     >>
>     >> Igor
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>     >>
>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that
>     running
>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>     running code
>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>     constructive
>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code (See
>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>     >>
>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and
>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label
>     set and
>     >> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft
>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or
>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>     >>
>     >> Thanks
>     >>
>     >> Regards…Zafar
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>]
>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Hi John:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Thanks
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Regards … Zafar
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>"
>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Zafar,
>     >>
>     >> That because this already defined method has the following issues:
>     >>
>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >>
>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >>
>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>     >> guaranteed
>     >>
>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>     >> optional objects.
>     >>
>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>     >>
>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>     >>
>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>     >> wavelength could be found.
>     >>
>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
>     >> UNI-N node.
>     >>
>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> John
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>]
>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>     >>
>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".
>     >>
>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>     >> defined method.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Thanks
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Regards … Zafar
>     >>
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > CCAMP mailing list
>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     CCAMP mailing list
>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Mon Nov  4 19:38:29 2013
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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Julien Meuric <julien.meuric@orange.com>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
Thread-Index: AQHO2ZK0rOEfRYTqjkK2QAYRcIhZKJoVJxIAgAA/HoCAAJXXZg==
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 03:38:08 +0000
Message-ID: <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA89932@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com>
References: <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9B93@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com> <CE9D1762.81193%zali@cisco.com> <664B8B26-7461-4C89-B748-4524C2307D9E@juniper.net> <5277F30A.7010308@labn.net> <CA+YzgTvxXex9c8+eXjfJdn8YgYrXhn+0OGxBfdetNu2hehcjgQ@mail.gmail.com>, <5278597F.1010303@orange.com>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Thanks Igor.  See below.

On 11/4/2013 1:51 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> Hi Lou,
> Please, see my comments in-line.
> 
> Igor
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 2:19 PM
> To: John E Drake; Zafar Ali (zali)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> 
> John, (authors)
> 
> 	Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific limitations the draft is focusing on.
> 
> There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a bidirectional LSP.)
> 
> IB>> There is no intention to do so.
> 

I think you have proposed at least a couple of pretty major changes, but
if we focus on these details, we risk missing the main point -- so I'd
like to leave this until there is understanding, and perhaps agreement
on the requirement.

> So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying to address is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream labels?
> 
> IB>> Correct. Considering that both directions are equally important
> for the LSP user, it does not make much sense to have different tools
> to negotiate labels in each direction.
> 

Minimizing mechanisms / avoiding duplication is always a good design
objective.  Of course, this also means that if there is a defined
mechanism we should avoiding changing it unless there's good reason,
e.g., it's broken.

> But there are other limitations as well. See below.
> 
> The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value allocation.  IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for completeness?
> 
> IB>> Even in case of WDM layer there are scenarios (e.g. single-fiber
> configurations) when the same wavelength cannot be used for both
> directions. For non-WDM layer it is perfectly OK to use
> label-asymmetrical LSPs. So we do want to maintain both options.
> 

okay. it is good to differentiate desirable vs required capabilities.

> Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?
> IB>> Today there is no way to *require* a bi-directional LSP to be label-symmetrical.

True.  This has always been a local allocation policy.  It's probably
worth describing in greater detail why you see it needs to be changed.

Thanks,
Lou
> 
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> Zafar,
>>
>> Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your 
>> response is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you 
>> but unimpressed.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com 
>> <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Igor, John-
>>>
>>> Please see in-line. 
>>>
>>> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, 
>>> "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net 
>>> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org 
>>> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>> Subject: RE: Comments about
>>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>     Zafar,
>>>
>>>     1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>>     operation is not good design practice.
>>>
>>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>>     already implemented and deployed. 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>>>
>>>     Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
>>>     Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
>>>     purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
>>>     much everything..... So, it is not clear which color is lighter, and
>>>     why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
>>>     technical arguments.
>>>
>>>     Igor
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>> Hi Igor and John: 
>>>
>>> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that 
>>> running code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the 
>>> running code is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not 
>>> constructive technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in 
>>> running code (See your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>>>
>>> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and 
>>> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and 
>>> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set and 
>>> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your draft 
>>> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mention or 
>>> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Regards...Zafar
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>>>     *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>>     *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>>     *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Hi John: 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Please see in-line. 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Thanks
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     Regards ... Zafar
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>     *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>"
>>>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>>     *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,
>>>     "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>>     <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>         Zafar,
>>>
>>>         That because this already defined method has the following issues:
>>>
>>>         1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>>         operation is not good design practice.
>>>
>>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>>     already implemented and deployed. 
>>>
>>>         2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>>>         guaranteed
>>>
>>>     So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
>>>     note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>>>     optional objects. 
>>>
>>>         3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>>>         the LSP is re-signaled.
>>>
>>>     This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>>>     label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>>>     provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>>     re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
>>>     for the re-signaling time. 
>>>
>>>         4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>>>         hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>>>         path.  This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>>>         would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>>>         both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>>         wavelength could be found.
>>>
>>>     In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
>>>     acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
>>>     UNI-N node. 
>>>
>>>         Yours Irrespectively,
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         John
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>         [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>>         *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>>         *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>         *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>         *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>>         draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Hi Igor and co-authors-
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>>>         upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>>         node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>>
>>>         "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>>>         received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>>>         is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>>>         /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>>         problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>>>         PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/". 
>>>
>>>         Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>>>         ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>>>         defined method. 
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Thanks
>>>
>>>          
>>>
>>>         Regards ... Zafar
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> 

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From vishnupavan@gmail.com  Tue Nov  5 05:25:18 2013
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I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try and see if
I can answer them all using the following Q&A.

A. "Label Symmetricity":

(1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asymmetric
label scenarios at all?
Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single scenario/product
where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out in an earlier email,
there could be in theory some single-fiber configurations where the same
wavelength cannot be used for both directions. But I don't know if anyone
really uses that.

(2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make them
symmetric at each hop?
Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label Asymmetricity"
and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by default. There is
currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each hop along the path of
the LSP.

(3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed (maybe we
even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be able
to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength" setup
use-case?
Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on what
needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL needs to be
filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. We still need the
ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the network - "please ignore
what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the LABEL_SET into
account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the RESV-LABEL for both
directions."

(4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the ingress
request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream node to
allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing is a
mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be symmetric=
.

B. "Label Asymmetricity"

(4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
asymmetric labels?
Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the draft
is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to discuss those if
we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that "labels are
always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined for
asymmetricity are use-less.

C. "Use-Case"

(5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
assign an upstream label?
Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.


Regards,
-Pavan


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi-
>
> Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse
> direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - as
> defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when alien
> wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am not
> aware of any example of such use case.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
> To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" <julien.meuric@orange.com>, Vishnu Pavan
> Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4:  Comments
> about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>
> >Hi Pavan,
> >
> >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an example to
> >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the bidirectiaonal
> >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real implementations?
> >
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each hop
> >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed
> >by default.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Fatai
> >
> >________________________________________
> >=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=
=FA=B1=ED Julien Meuric
> >[julien.meuric@orange.com]
> >=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35
> >=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> >=B3=AD=CB=CD: ccamp@ietf.org
> >=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
> >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >
> >Hi Pavan.
> >
> >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I
> >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
> >
> >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver: you don't
> >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could
> >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages
> >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would
> >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...
> >
> >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol.
> >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes:
> >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the
> >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
> >
> >Julien
> >
> >
> >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> >> Lou,
> >>
> >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards
> >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the
> >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not
> >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all and
> >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existing
> >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that we
> >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of the
> >> existing extensions.
> >>
> >> Base requirement :
> >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an
> >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
> >> downstream) to assign it instead.
> >>
> >> Corollary requirements :
> >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
> >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label
> >> needs to get picked.
> >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
> >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that needs
> >> to get picked.
> >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label
> >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions.
> >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each
> >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be
> >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for the
> >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along the path of
> >> the LSP.
> >>
> >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and cater
> >> to the above requirements?
> >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list was to
> >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition.
> >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
> >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have provided
> >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me add another
> >> point -
> >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in
> >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
> >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case
> >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, it
> >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelength at
> >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
> >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with the
> >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the case
> >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. If some
> >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
> >> network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this
> >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
> >>
> >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identified by
> >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This draft
> >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
> >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the PATH
> >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
> >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indications,
> >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the
> >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is allowed
> >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don't
> >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP setup
> >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
> >> Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can
> >> still be happy with their "running code".
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> -Pavan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
> >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     John, (authors)
> >>
> >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
> >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
> >>
> >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expect=
ed
> >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be
> >>careful
> >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from
> >>the
> >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicate=
s
> >>a
> >>     bidirectional LSP.)
> >>
> >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is
> >>trying
> >>     to address is the inability to support downstream selection of
> >>     upstream
> >>     labels?
> >>
> >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label valu=
e
> >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for
> >>     completeness?
> >>
> >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to
> >>address?
> >>
> >>     Lou
> >>
> >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >>     > Zafar,
> >>     >
> >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and yo=
ur
> >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm happy for
> >>     you but
> >>     > unimpressed.
> >>     >
> >>     > John
> >>     >
> >>     > Sent from my iPhone
> >>     >
> >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com
> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
> >>     >
> >>     >> Igor, John-
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>"
> >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>>
> >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
> >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
> >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
> >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Zafar,
> >>     >>
> >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
> >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about=
 a
> >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that
> >>is
> >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this=
:
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet=
.
> >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for their vario=
us
> >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
> >>     >> much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color is ligh=
ter,
> >>and
> >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
> >>constructive
> >>     >> technical arguments.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Igor
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
> >>     >>
> >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that
> >>     running
> >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
> >>     running code
> >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
> >>     constructive
> >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code
> >>(See
> >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and
> >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
> >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label
> >>     set and
> >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your
> >>draft
> >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any mentio=
n
> >>or
> >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Thanks
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Regards=A1=ADZafar
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>]
> >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
> >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
> >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Hi John:
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Thanks
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
> >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
> >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
> >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>"
> >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>>
> >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Zafar,
> >>     >>
> >>     >> That because this already defined method has the following
> >>issues:
> >>     >>
> >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
> >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about=
 a
> >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that
> >>is
> >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
> >>     >> guaranteed
> >>     >>
> >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
> >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
> >>     >> optional objects.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by the time
> >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
> >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
> >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
> >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the lab=
el
> >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
> >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
> >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
> >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
> >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
> >>     >> wavelength could be found.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, th=
e
> >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C a=
nd
> >>     >> UNI-N node.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> John
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
> >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>]
> >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
> >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
> >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
> >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
> >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
> >>     >>
> >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
> >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
> >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
> >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
> >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
> >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
> >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
> >>     >> defined method.
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Thanks
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
> >>     >>
> >>     >
> >>     >
> >>     > _______________________________________________
> >>     > CCAMP mailing list
> >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>     >
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     CCAMP mailing list
> >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CCAMP mailing list
> >> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >CCAMP mailing list
> >CCAMP@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >_______________________________________________
> >CCAMP mailing list
> >CCAMP@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I see a pattern in the questions that are being raise=
d. I&#39;ll try and see if I can answer them all using the following Q&amp;=
A.</div><div><br></div><div>A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:</div><div><b=
r>
</div><div>(1) Aren&#39;t labels always symmetric in practice? Are there an=
y asymmetric label scenarios at all?</div><div>Ans: Yes, labels are almost =
always symmetric in practice. The draft explicitly states that. I haven&#39=
;t come across any single scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used=
. As Igor pointed out in an earlier email, there could be in theory some si=
ngle-fiber configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both=
 directions. But I don&#39;t know if anyone really uses that.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>(2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the i=
ngress to make them symmetric at each hop?</div><div>Ans: This is because t=
he extensions in RFC3473 allows &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; and and as =
a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by default. There is currently no w=
ay of mandating symmetricity at each hop along the path of the LSP.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&quot; is =
always guaranteed (maybe we even state it explicitly in some standard docum=
ent). Would you then be able to use existing extensions and address the &qu=
ot;alien-wavelength&quot; setup use-case?</div>
<div>Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the ingre=
ss-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on what needs=
 to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL needs to be fill=
ed in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. We still need the ing=
ress-client to have some mechanism to tell the network - &quot;please ignor=
e what I&#39;m filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the LABEL_SET into =
account if I fill one; I&#39;ll use what is returned in the RESV-LABEL for =
both directions.&quot;</div>
<div><br></div><div>(4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Wh=
y should the ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream ho=
p?</div><div>Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downst=
ream node to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is prop=
osing is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to b=
e symmetric.</div>
<div><br></div><div>B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;</div><div><br></div>=
<div>(4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; extensions been included =
just for completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need fo=
r asymmetric labels?</div>
<div>Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the =
draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don&#39;t need to discuss=
 those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that &q=
uot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and that all previous extensions defi=
ned for asymmetricity are use-less.</div>
<div><br></div><div>C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<br></div><div><br></div><div>(5=
) I don&#39;t understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to as=
sign an upstream label?</div><div>Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 dis=
cusses a specific use-case.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>-Pavan</div></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2=
013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:za=
li@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi-<br>
<br>
Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse<br>
direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - as<br>
defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when alien<br=
>
wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am not<br>
aware of any example of such use case.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.=
com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric=
@orange.com</a>&gt;, Vishnu Pavan<br>
Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4: &nbsp;Comments<br>
about &nbsp; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
<br>
&gt;Hi Pavan,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an example to=
<br>
&gt;show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the bidirectiaonal<=
br>
&gt;LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real implementations=
?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each ho=
p<br>
&gt;along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed=
<br>
&gt;by default.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Thanks<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Fatai<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;________________________________________<br>
&gt;=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@=
ietf.org</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Julien Meuric<br>
&gt;[<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</=
a>]<br>
&gt;=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35<br>
&gt;=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
&gt;=B3=AD=CB=CD: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
&gt;draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Hi Pavan.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I<=
br>
&gt;need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The Upstream_Label refers to the client&#39;s optical receiver: you don=
&#39;t<br>
&gt;need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could<=
br>
&gt;even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages=
<br>
&gt;to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would<b=
r>
&gt;fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol.<=
br>
&gt;This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes:<br>
&gt;requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the=
<br>
&gt;server job, I am not sure it is desirable.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Julien<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Lou,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not=
<br>
&gt;&gt; mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all =
and<br>
&gt;&gt; sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that w=
e<br>
&gt;&gt; are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt; existing extensions.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Base requirement :<br>
&gt;&gt; Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an<=
br>
&gt;&gt; upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read<br>
&gt;&gt; downstream) to assign it instead.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Corollary requirements :<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned=
<br>
&gt;&gt; upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label<=
br>
&gt;&gt; needs to get picked.<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned=
<br>
&gt;&gt; upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that ne=
eds<br>
&gt;&gt; to get picked.<br>
&gt;&gt; 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label<=
br>
&gt;&gt; returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directio=
ns.<br>
&gt;&gt; In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on ea=
ch<br>
&gt;&gt; hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot b=
e<br>
&gt;&gt; assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt; ingress to request &quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop alon=
g the path of<br>
&gt;&gt; the LSP.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and ca=
ter<br>
&gt;&gt; to the above requirements?<br>
&gt;&gt; We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list wa=
s to<br>
&gt;&gt; set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expeditio=
n.<br>
&gt;&gt; The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a<br=
>
&gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have prov=
ided<br>
&gt;&gt; a list of reasons on why that isn&#39;t a great idea. Let me add a=
nother<br>
&gt;&gt; point -<br>
&gt;&gt; - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object i=
n<br>
&gt;&gt; the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already<br>
&gt;&gt; installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case<=
br>
&gt;&gt; (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, =
it<br>
&gt;&gt; would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelengt=
h at<br>
&gt;&gt; the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network<br=
>
&gt;&gt; assigned upstream label. Doesn&#39;t it? So, the point is that wit=
h the<br>
&gt;&gt; current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the =
case<br>
&gt;&gt; where the upstream-label hasn&#39;t been installed/programmed yet.=
 If some<br>
&gt;&gt; implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the<br=
>
&gt;&gt; network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this=
<br>
&gt;&gt; label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identifie=
d by<br>
&gt;&gt; the presence of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the PATH m=
sg. This draft<br>
&gt;&gt; does propose 2 other mechanisms:<br>
&gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag=
 in the PATH<br>
&gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the=
 PATH<br>
&gt;&gt; If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indicati=
ons,<br>
&gt;&gt; it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is all=
owed<br>
&gt;&gt; to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don&#3=
9;t<br>
&gt;&gt; understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP s=
etup<br>
&gt;&gt; translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.<br>
&gt;&gt; Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can<=
br>
&gt;&gt; still be happy with their &quot;running code&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
berger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a=
>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; John, (authors)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on th=
e specific<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing on.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; There&#39;s no question that 3473 made certain choic=
es based on expected<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do =
need to be<br>
&gt;&gt;careful<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. mov=
ing away from<br>
&gt;&gt;the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; use of the upstream label object as the basic object=
 that indicates<br>
&gt;&gt;a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; So is it fair to say that the main limitation that t=
he draft is<br>
&gt;&gt;trying<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; to address is the inability to support downstream se=
lection of<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; labels?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmet=
ric label value<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric jus=
t included for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completeness?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there other requirements / limitations you are t=
rying to<br>
&gt;&gt;address?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lou<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues wi=
th RFC3473 and your<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473=
. I&#39;m happy for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; you but<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; John<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (za=
li)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">za=
li@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.co=
m</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adva=
optical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@a=
dvaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@ci=
sco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@j=
uniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juni=
per.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne=
t">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.ne=
t">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf=
.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org=
">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of n=
ormal protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an =
integral part of the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we ar=
e not debating about a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking ab=
out a procedure that<br>
&gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discuss=
ion is something like this:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter col=
or than black.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part=
 of the color pallet.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use b=
lack for their various<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, =
use black for pretty<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything&hellip;.. So, it is not cle=
ar which color is lighter,<br>
&gt;&gt;and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IM=
HO are not<br>
&gt;&gt;constructive<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first tim=
e I have heard that<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especi=
ally when the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running code<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are ca=
lling it &quot;not<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; constructive<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we =
believed in running code<br>
&gt;&gt;(See<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IET=
F Atlanta).<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use cas=
e where upstream and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. =
When upstream and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use o=
f acceptable label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; set and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running co=
de. However, your<br>
&gt;&gt;draft<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement =
nor makes any mention<br>
&gt;&gt;or<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted fr=
om RFC3473.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards&hellip;Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@ci=
sco.com</a>&gt;]<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdr=
ake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake=
@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">j=
drake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdra=
ke@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdr=
ake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake=
@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco=
.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@=
cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@ci=
sco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>=
&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptica=
l.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@a=
dvaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.or=
g">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org=
">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method ha=
s the following<br>
&gt;&gt;issues:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of n=
ormal protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an =
integral part of the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we ar=
e not debating about a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking ab=
out a procedure that<br>
&gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its =
presence is not<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream la=
bel set. Also please<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol=
 are designed using<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out o=
f date by the time<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sen=
ding the acceptable<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarant=
ee that information<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remain=
s valid for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementati=
on can cache the label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set i=
s generated hop by<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exerci=
ses the entire<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine =
a valid wavelength<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded numbe=
r of crankbacks,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarante=
e that such a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength address=
ed in this draft, the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restr=
icted to the UNI-C and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"=
>ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounce=
s@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;]<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptica=
l.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@a=
dvaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org=
</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already consider=
s the case where<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a d=
ownstream<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path message containing an Up=
stream_Label object is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that =
the upstream label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptab=
le, the receiver<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quo=
t;Routing<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value&quot; indi=
cation. The generated<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable L=
abel Set Object/&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried=
 in PathErr and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cov=
er this already<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.or=
g</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><=
br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cca=
mp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
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A small update to Question (1) - to clarify the context [There is no
non-WDM use-case discussed in the draft (yet) - so keeping the discussion
pertinent]

(1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice at the WDM layer? Are there
any asymmetric label scenarios at all?
Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice at the WDM layer.
The draft explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
WDM-layer scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor
pointed out in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that. (That said, the
extensions defined in the draft make no assumption of what the "label"
actually represents; they are applicable to all types of Bidirectional LSPs=
)

-Pavan


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram
<vishnupavan@gmail.com>wrote:

> I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try and see
> if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
>
> A. "Label Symmetricity":
>
> (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asymmetric
> label scenarios at all?
> Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
> explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single scenario/product
> where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out in an earlier email=
,
> there could be in theory some single-fiber configurations where the same
> wavelength cannot be used for both directions. But I don't know if anyone
> really uses that.
>
> (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make the=
m
> symmetric at each hop?
> Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
> Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
> default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each hop
> along the path of the LSP.
>
> (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed (maybe we
> even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be ab=
le
> to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength" setup
> use-case?
> Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
> ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on wha=
t
> needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL needs to =
be
> filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. We still need t=
he
> ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the network - "please ignor=
e
> what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the LABEL_SET into
> account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the RESV-LABEL for bo=
th
> directions."
>
> (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
> ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
> Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream node t=
o
> allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing is a
> mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be symmetr=
ic.
>
> B. "Label Asymmetricity"
>
> (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
> completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
> asymmetric labels?
> Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
> draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to discuss
> those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that
> "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined fo=
r
> asymmetricity are use-less.
>
> C. "Use-Case"
>
> (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
> assign an upstream label?
> Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
>
>
> Regards,
> -Pavan
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi-
>>
>> Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse
>> direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - as
>> defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when alien
>> wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am not
>> aware of any example of such use case.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
>> To: "julien.meuric@orange.com" <julien.meuric@orange.com>, Vishnu Pavan
>> Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4:  Comments
>> about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>> >Hi Pavan,
>> >
>> >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an example to
>> >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the bidirectiaonal
>> >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real implementations=
?
>> >
>>
>> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
>> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>> >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each ho=
p
>> >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed
>> >by default.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >Fatai
>> >
>> >________________________________________
>> >=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=
=FA=B1=ED Julien Meuric
>> >[julien.meuric@orange.com]
>> >=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35
>> >=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>> >=B3=AD=CB=CD: ccamp@ietf.org
>> >=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
>> >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>> >
>> >Hi Pavan.
>> >
>> >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I
>> >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
>> >
>> >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver: you don't
>> >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could
>> >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages
>> >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would
>> >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...
>> >
>> >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol.
>> >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes:
>> >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the
>> >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
>> >
>> >Julien
>> >
>> >
>> >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>> >> Lou,
>> >>
>> >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards
>> >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the
>> >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not
>> >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all and
>> >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existing
>> >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that we
>> >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of th=
e
>> >> existing extensions.
>> >>
>> >> Base requirement :
>> >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an
>> >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
>> >> downstream) to assign it instead.
>> >>
>> >> Corollary requirements :
>> >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
>> >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label
>> >> needs to get picked.
>> >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
>> >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that needs
>> >> to get picked.
>> >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label
>> >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions.
>> >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each
>> >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be
>> >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for th=
e
>> >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along the path of
>> >> the LSP.
>> >>
>> >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and cater
>> >> to the above requirements?
>> >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list was t=
o
>> >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition.
>> >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
>> >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have provide=
d
>> >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me add another
>> >> point -
>> >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in
>> >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
>> >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case
>> >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, it
>> >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelength a=
t
>> >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
>> >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with the
>> >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the cas=
e
>> >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. If som=
e
>> >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
>> >> network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this
>> >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>> >>
>> >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identified b=
y
>> >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This draf=
t
>> >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
>> >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the PATH
>> >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
>> >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indications=
,
>> >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the
>> >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is allowe=
d
>> >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don't
>> >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP setu=
p
>> >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
>> >> Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can
>> >> still be happy with their "running code".
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> -Pavan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
>> >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>     John, (authors)
>> >>
>> >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
>> >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>> >>
>> >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
>> expected
>> >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be
>> >>careful
>> >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from
>> >>the
>> >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicat=
es
>> >>a
>> >>     bidirectional LSP.)
>> >>
>> >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is
>> >>trying
>> >>     to address is the inability to support downstream selection of
>> >>     upstream
>> >>     labels?
>> >>
>> >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label val=
ue
>> >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included fo=
r
>> >>     completeness?
>> >>
>> >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to
>> >>address?
>> >>
>> >>     Lou
>> >>
>> >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> >>     > Zafar,
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and
>> your
>> >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm happy for
>> >>     you but
>> >>     > unimpressed.
>> >>     >
>> >>     > John
>> >>     >
>> >>     > Sent from my iPhone
>> >>     >
>> >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com
>> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>> >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
>> >>     >
>> >>     >> Igor, John-
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Please see in-line.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>"
>> >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>> >>>
>> >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>> >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
>> >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
>> >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>> >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>> >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Zafar,
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>> >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of th=
e
>> >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating abou=
t
>> a
>> >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure tha=
t
>> >>is
>> >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like thi=
s:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color palle=
t.
>> >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for their
>> various
>> >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for prett=
y
>> >>     >> much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color is lig=
hter,
>> >>and
>> >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
>> >>constructive
>> >>     >> technical arguments.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Igor
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that
>> >>     running
>> >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>> >>     running code
>> >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>> >>     constructive
>> >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code
>> >>(See
>> >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream an=
d
>> >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
>> >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label
>> >>     set and
>> >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your
>> >>draft
>> >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any menti=
on
>> >>or
>> >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Thanks
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Regards=A1=ADZafar
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>]
>> >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>> >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>> >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>> >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Hi John:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Please see in-line.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Thanks
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>"
>> >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>> >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>> >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>> >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>> >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>,
>> >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>> >>"
>> >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>> >>>
>> >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>> >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Zafar,
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> That because this already defined method has the following
>> >>issues:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>> >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of th=
e
>> >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating abou=
t
>> a
>> >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure tha=
t
>> >>is
>> >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>> >>     >> guaranteed
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also pleas=
e
>> >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>> >>     >> optional objects.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>> >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>> >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>> >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>> >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the
>> label
>> >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>> >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>> >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>> >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>> >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>> >>     >> wavelength could be found.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, t=
he
>> >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C
>> and
>> >>     >> UNI-N node.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> John
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>> >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>=
]
>> >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>> >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>> >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m
>> >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>> >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>> >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>> >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>> >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>> >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>> >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>> >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>> >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>> >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>> >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>> >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>> >>     >> defined method.
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Thanks
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
>> >>     >>
>> >>     >
>> >>     >
>> >>     > _______________________________________________
>> >>     > CCAMP mailing list
>> >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>> >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> >>     >
>> >>
>> >>     _______________________________________________
>> >>     CCAMP mailing list
>> >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>> >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> CCAMP mailing list
>> >> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >CCAMP mailing list
>> >CCAMP@ietf.org
>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >CCAMP mailing list
>> >CCAMP@ietf.org
>> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>

--20cf30223bf51cb91004ea6e6aea
Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>A small update to Question (1) - to clarify the conte=
xt [There is no non-WDM use-case discussed in the draft (yet) - so keeping =
the discussion pertinent]<br></div><div><br></div><div>(1) Aren&#39;t label=
s always symmetric in practice at the WDM layer? Are there any asymmetric l=
abel scenarios at all?</div>
<div>Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice at the WDM la=
yer. The draft explicitly states that. I haven&#39;t come across any single=
 WDM-layer scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor point=
ed out in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber conf=
igurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both directions. Bu=
t I don&#39;t know if anyone really uses that. (That said, the extensions d=
efined in the draft make no assumption of what the &quot;label&quot; actual=
ly represents; they are applicable to all types of Bidirectional LSPs)</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>-Pavan</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beera=
m <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I see a pattern in the=
 questions that are being raised. I&#39;ll try and see if I can answer them=
 all using the following Q&amp;A.</div>
<div><br></div><div>A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:</div><div><br>
</div><div>(1) Aren&#39;t labels always symmetric in practice? Are there an=
y asymmetric label scenarios at all?</div><div>Ans: Yes, labels are almost =
always symmetric in practice. The draft explicitly states that. I haven&#39=
;t come across any single scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used=
. As Igor pointed out in an earlier email, there could be in theory some si=
ngle-fiber configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both=
 directions. But I don&#39;t know if anyone really uses that.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br></div><div>(2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the i=
ngress to make them symmetric at each hop?</div><div>Ans: This is because t=
he extensions in RFC3473 allows &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; and and as =
a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by default. There is currently no w=
ay of mandating symmetricity at each hop along the path of the LSP.</div>

<div><br></div><div>(3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&quot; is =
always guaranteed (maybe we even state it explicitly in some standard docum=
ent). Would you then be able to use existing extensions and address the &qu=
ot;alien-wavelength&quot; setup use-case?</div>

<div>Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the ingre=
ss-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on what needs=
 to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL needs to be fill=
ed in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. We still need the ing=
ress-client to have some mechanism to tell the network - &quot;please ignor=
e what I&#39;m filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the LABEL_SET into =
account if I fill one; I&#39;ll use what is returned in the RESV-LABEL for =
both directions.&quot;</div>

<div><br></div><div>(4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Wh=
y should the ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream ho=
p?</div><div>Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downst=
ream node to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is prop=
osing is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to b=
e symmetric.</div>

<div><br></div><div>B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;</div><div><br></div>=
<div>(4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; extensions been included =
just for completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need fo=
r asymmetric labels?</div>

<div>Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the =
draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don&#39;t need to discuss=
 those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that &q=
uot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and that all previous extensions defi=
ned for asymmetricity are use-less.</div>

<div><br></div><div>C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<br></div><div><br></div><div>(5=
) I don&#39;t understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to as=
sign an upstream label?</div><div>Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 dis=
cusses a specific use-case.</div>

<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>-Pavan</div></div><di=
v class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zal=
i@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi-<br>
<br>
Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse<br>
direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - as<br>
defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when alien<br=
>
wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am not<br>
aware of any example of such use case.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM<br>
To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">jul=
ien.meuric@orange.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.=
com" target=3D"_blank">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;, Vishnu Pavan<br>
Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vishn=
upavan@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4: &nbsp;Comments<br>
about &nbsp; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
<br>
&gt;Hi Pavan,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an example to=
<br>
&gt;show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the bidirectiaonal<=
br>
&gt;LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real implementations=
?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D<br>
&gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each ho=
p<br>
&gt;along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed=
<br>
&gt;by default.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Thanks<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Fatai<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;________________________________________<br>
&gt;=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] =B4=FA=B1=ED Julien Meuri=
c<br>
&gt;[<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">julien.m=
euric@orange.com</a>]<br>
&gt;=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35<br>
&gt;=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
&gt;=B3=AD=CB=CD: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp=
@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
&gt;draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Hi Pavan.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I<=
br>
&gt;need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;The Upstream_Label refers to the client&#39;s optical receiver: you don=
&#39;t<br>
&gt;need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could<=
br>
&gt;even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages=
<br>
&gt;to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would<b=
r>
&gt;fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol.<=
br>
&gt;This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes:<br>
&gt;requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the=
<br>
&gt;server job, I am not sure it is desirable.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Julien<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Lou,<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not=
<br>
&gt;&gt; mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all =
and<br>
&gt;&gt; sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existin=
g<br>
&gt;&gt; extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that w=
e<br>
&gt;&gt; are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations of=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt; existing extensions.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Base requirement :<br>
&gt;&gt; Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an<=
br>
&gt;&gt; upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read<br>
&gt;&gt; downstream) to assign it instead.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Corollary requirements :<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned=
<br>
&gt;&gt; upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label<=
br>
&gt;&gt; needs to get picked.<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned=
<br>
&gt;&gt; upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that ne=
eds<br>
&gt;&gt; to get picked.<br>
&gt;&gt; 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label<=
br>
&gt;&gt; returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directio=
ns.<br>
&gt;&gt; In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on ea=
ch<br>
&gt;&gt; hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot b=
e<br>
&gt;&gt; assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism for=
 the<br>
&gt;&gt; ingress to request &quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop alon=
g the path of<br>
&gt;&gt; the LSP.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and ca=
ter<br>
&gt;&gt; to the above requirements?<br>
&gt;&gt; We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list wa=
s to<br>
&gt;&gt; set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expeditio=
n.<br>
&gt;&gt; The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a<br=
>
&gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have prov=
ided<br>
&gt;&gt; a list of reasons on why that isn&#39;t a great idea. Let me add a=
nother<br>
&gt;&gt; point -<br>
&gt;&gt; - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object i=
n<br>
&gt;&gt; the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already<br>
&gt;&gt; installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case<=
br>
&gt;&gt; (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, =
it<br>
&gt;&gt; would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this wavelengt=
h at<br>
&gt;&gt; the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network<br=
>
&gt;&gt; assigned upstream label. Doesn&#39;t it? So, the point is that wit=
h the<br>
&gt;&gt; current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the =
case<br>
&gt;&gt; where the upstream-label hasn&#39;t been installed/programmed yet.=
 If some<br>
&gt;&gt; implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the<br=
>
&gt;&gt; network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this=
<br>
&gt;&gt; label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is identifie=
d by<br>
&gt;&gt; the presence of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the PATH m=
sg. This draft<br>
&gt;&gt; does propose 2 other mechanisms:<br>
&gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag=
 in the PATH<br>
&gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the=
 PATH<br>
&gt;&gt; If a downstream node does not understand any of the above indicati=
ons,<br>
&gt;&gt; it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is all=
owed<br>
&gt;&gt; to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don&#3=
9;t<br>
&gt;&gt; understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP s=
etup<br>
&gt;&gt; translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.<br>
&gt;&gt; Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can<=
br>
&gt;&gt; still be happy with their &quot;running code&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt;&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:l=
berger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">l=
berger@labn.net</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; John, (authors)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on th=
e specific<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing on.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; There&#39;s no question that 3473 made certain choic=
es based on expected<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do =
need to be<br>
&gt;&gt;careful<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. mov=
ing away from<br>
&gt;&gt;the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; use of the upstream label object as the basic object=
 that indicates<br>
&gt;&gt;a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; So is it fair to say that the main limitation that t=
he draft is<br>
&gt;&gt;trying<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; to address is the inability to support downstream se=
lection of<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; labels?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmet=
ric label value<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric jus=
t included for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completeness?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there other requirements / limitations you are t=
rying to<br>
&gt;&gt;address?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lou<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues wi=
th RFC3473 and your<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473=
. I&#39;m happy for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; you but<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; John<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (za=
li)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisc=
o.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.=
com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adva=
optical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com<=
/a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a=
>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@=
cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=
=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"=
_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of n=
ormal protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an =
integral part of the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we ar=
e not debating about a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking ab=
out a procedure that<br>
&gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discuss=
ion is something like this:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter col=
or than black.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part=
 of the color pallet.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use b=
lack for their various<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, =
use black for pretty<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything&hellip;.. So, it is not cle=
ar which color is lighter,<br>
&gt;&gt;and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IM=
HO are not<br>
&gt;&gt;constructive<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first tim=
e I have heard that<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especi=
ally when the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running code<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are ca=
lling it &quot;not<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; constructive<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we =
believed in running code<br>
&gt;&gt;(See<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IET=
F Atlanta).<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use cas=
e where upstream and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. =
When upstream and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use o=
f acceptable label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; set and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running co=
de. However, your<br>
&gt;&gt;draft<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement =
nor makes any mention<br>
&gt;&gt;or<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted fr=
om RFC3473.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards&hellip;Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;]<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@j=
uniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" t=
arget=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake=
@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@j=
uniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco=
.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zal=
i@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptica=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a=
>&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com<=
/a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a=
>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>

&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org=
" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method ha=
s the following<br>
&gt;&gt;issues:<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of n=
ormal protocol<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an =
integral part of the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we ar=
e not debating about a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking ab=
out a procedure that<br>
&gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its =
presence is not<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream la=
bel set. Also please<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol=
 are designed using<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out o=
f date by the time<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sen=
ding the acceptable<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarant=
ee that information<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remain=
s valid for<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementati=
on can cache the label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set i=
s generated hop by<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exerci=
ses the entire<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine =
a valid wavelength<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded numbe=
r of crankbacks,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarante=
e that such a<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength address=
ed in this draft, the<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restr=
icted to the UNI-C and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&g=
t;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt=
;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;]<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptica=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.o=
rg" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already consider=
s the case where<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a d=
ownstream<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path message containing an Up=
stream_Label object is<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that =
the upstream label<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptab=
le, the receiver<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quo=
t;Routing<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value&quot; indi=
cation. The generated<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable L=
abel Set Object/&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried=
 in PathErr and<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cov=
er this already<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________=
<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><=
br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cca=
mp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org=
</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"=
_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><=
br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><=
br>
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--20cf30223bf51cb91004ea6e6aea--

From ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org  Thu Oct 31 09:49:53 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] Milestones changed for ccamp WG
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Changed milestone "Submit TE MIB module IESG review", resolved as
"Done".

Changed milestone "Submit OAM configuration framework for IESG
review", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit LMP Negotiation for IESG review", resolved
as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit G.709 enhancements framework for IESG
review", resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit G.709 enhancements solutions for IESG
review", resolved as "Done".

Deleted milestone "First version of LMP for  G.709 enhancements
Working Group drafts".

Changed milestone "First version flexigrid requirements/framework
Working Group draft", resolved as "Done".

Deleted milestone "Submit LMP for G.709 enhancements for IESG review".

Changed milestone "Submit last OAM configuration solutions for IESG
review", set due date to November 2013 from April 2011, resolved as
"Done".

Changed milestone "Submit first set of OAM configuration solutions for
IESG review", set due date to November 2013 from October 2012,
resolved as "Done".

Changed milestone "Submit WSON routing related drafts for IESG
review", set due date to December 2013 from December 2012.

Changed milestone "Submit WSON signaling related draft for IESG
review", set due date to December 2013 from June 2013.

Changed milestone "First version GMPLS E-NNI Working Group draft", set
due date to January 2014 from April 2013.

Changed milestone "First versions of impairments related solutions
Working Group drafts", set due date to March 2014 from March 2013.

Changed milestone "Submit MPLS-TP Association to IESG", set due date
to June 2014 from August 2013.

Changed milestone "Submit impairments related solutions for IESG
review", set due date to March 2015 from March 2014.

URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/charter/

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Lou, all

For i.-d. draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-attribute-ro : no change since  last meeting.
Authors are pending commenter and WG feedback. We will align with the
outcome of vancouver discussions.




On 4 November 2013 04:20, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> WG draft authors,
>
> As usual:
>
> If you are not presenting, please send a status update on your draft --
> include any changes that have recently been made, any open discussions
> or issues, as well as planned next steps.
>
> Please send this as soon as possible.
>
> Much thanks,
> Lou
>
> PS If your draft has been submitted to the IESG for publication, you do
> not need to send status...
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>



-- 
-- 
Cyril Margaria

--f46d044402a2b9de5104ea6ddf89
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Lou, all<br>
<br>
For i.-d. draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-attribute-ro : no change since=A0 last meeti=
ng.<br></div>Authors are pending commenter and WG feedback. We will align w=
ith the outcome of vancouver discussions.<br>=A0<br><div><div id=3D":60h">
<br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote">On 4 November 2013 04:20, Lou Berger <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">WG draft authors,<br>
<br>
As usual:<br>
<br>
If you are not presenting, please send a status update on your draft --<br>
include any changes that have recently been made, any open discussions<br>
or issues, as well as planned next steps.<br>
<br>
Please send this as soon as possible.<br>
<br>
Much thanks,<br>
Lou<br>
<br>
PS If your draft has been submitted to the IESG for publication, you do<br>
not need to send status...<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CCAMP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>Cyril Margaria
</div>

--f46d044402a2b9de5104ea6ddf89--

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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 07:20:13 -0800
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
References: <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA89932@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com>	<CE9DDCED.81368%zali@cisco.com> <CA+YzgTumNUY_bUWVr1RCMFsx3wwt-p0eOe-RDUjX1f0x_0peXw@mail.gmail.com>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBDb21tZW50cyBhYm91dCBkcmFmdC1iZWVy?= =?utf-8?q?am-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00?=
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Pavan,
	I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the goals are of
the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms that are
proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be addressed.
(While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly important,
arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of "what" you'd
like to accomplish.)

So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
1. Downstream selection of the upstream label

2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
   should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream label

3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
   is selecting the label.

4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
   you really care about it.

Is this correct?

Thanks,
Lou

On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try and see
> if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
> 
> A. "Label Symmetricity":
> 
> (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asymmetric
> label scenarios at all?
> Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
> explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
> scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
> in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
> configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
> directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that. 
> 
> (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
> them symmetric at each hop?
> Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
> Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
> default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each hop
> along the path of the LSP.
> 
> (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed (maybe we
> even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
> able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength" setup
> use-case?
> Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
> ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
> what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
> needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. We
> still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the network
> - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
> LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
> RESV-LABEL for both directions."
> 
> (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
> ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
> Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream node
> to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
> is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
> symmetric.
> 
> B. "Label Asymmetricity"
> 
> (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
> completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
> asymmetric labels?
> Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
> draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to discuss
> those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that
> "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
> for asymmetricity are use-less.
> 
> C. "Use-Case"
> 
> (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
> assign an upstream label?
> Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> -Pavan
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
> <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi-
> 
>     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse
>     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - as
>     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when alien
>     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am not
>     aware of any example of such use case.
> 
>     Thanks
> 
>     Regards â€¦ Zafar
> 
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>
>     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
>     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>"
>     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>, Vishnu
>     Pavan
>     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>
>     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     Subject: [CCAMP] ç­”å¤�:  Comments
>     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> 
>     >Hi Pavan,
>     >
>     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an example to
>     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the bidirectiaonal
>     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
>     implementations?
>     >
>     >==========================================================================
>     >======================================
>     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
>     each hop
>     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be assumed
>     >by default.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >Thanks
>     >
>     >Fatai
>     >
>     >________________________________________
>     >å�‘ä»¶äºº: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>] ä»£è¡¨ Julien
>     Meuric
>     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>]
>     >å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´: 2013å¹´11æœˆ5æ—¥ 10:35
>     >æ”¶ä»¶äºº: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>     >æŠ„é€�: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >ä¸»é¢˜: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
>     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >
>     >Hi Pavan.
>     >
>     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label requirement, I
>     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
>     >
>     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver: you don't
>     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission could
>     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE messages
>     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that would
>     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network...
>     >
>     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the protocol.
>     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes:
>     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doing the
>     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
>     >
>     >Julien
>     >
>     >
>     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>     >> Lou,
>     >>
>     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards
>     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the
>     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is not
>     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to all and
>     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the existing
>     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that we
>     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
>     of the
>     >> existing extensions.
>     >>
>     >> Base requirement :
>     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign an
>     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
>     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
>     >>
>     >> Corollary requirements :
>     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
>     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what label
>     >> needs to get picked.
>     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assigned
>     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that needs
>     >> to get picked.
>     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the label
>     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both directions.
>     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on each
>     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be
>     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
>     for the
>     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along the path of
>     >> the LSP.
>     >>
>     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and cater
>     >> to the above requirements?
>     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
>     was to
>     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing expedition.
>     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
>     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
>     provided
>     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me add another
>     >> point -
>     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object in
>     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
>     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-case
>     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message, it
>     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
>     wavelength at
>     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
>     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with the
>     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for the
>     case
>     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. If
>     some
>     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
>     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already installed this
>     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>     >>
>     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
>     identified by
>     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This
>     draft
>     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
>     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the PATH
>     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
>     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
>     indications,
>     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the
>     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
>     allowed
>     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don't
>     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP
>     setup
>     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
>     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others can
>     >> still be happy with their "running code".
>     >>
>     >> Regards,
>     >> -Pavan
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>     John, (authors)
>     >>
>     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific
>     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>     >>
>     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
>     expected
>     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be
>     >>careful
>     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from
>     >>the
>     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
>     indicates
>     >>a
>     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
>     >>
>     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is
>     >>trying
>     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream selection of
>     >>     upstream
>     >>     labels?
>     >>
>     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label
>     value
>     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
>     included for
>     >>     completeness?
>     >>
>     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to
>     >>address?
>     >>
>     >>     Lou
>     >>
>     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>     >>     > Zafar,
>     >>     >
>     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
>     and your
>     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm happy for
>     >>     you but
>     >>     > unimpressed.
>     >>     >
>     >>     > John
>     >>     >
>     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     >>     >
>     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
>     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>> wrote:
>     >>     >
>     >>     >> Igor, John-
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>"
>     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
>     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>,
>     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>"
>     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>
>     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Zafar,
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>     of the
>     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating
>     about a
>     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure
>     that
>     >>is
>     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like
>     this:
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
>     pallet.
>     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for their
>     various
>     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
>     pretty
>     >>     >> much everythingâ€¦.. So, it is not clear which color is lighter,
>     >>and
>     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
>     >>constructive
>     >>     >> technical arguments.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Igor
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that
>     >>     running
>     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>     >>     running code
>     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>     >>     constructive
>     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running code
>     >>(See
>     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
>     upstream and
>     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and
>     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label
>     >>     set and
>     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code. However, your
>     >>draft
>     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
>     mention
>     >>or
>     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Thanks
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Regardsâ€¦Zafar
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>]
>     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Hi John:
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Thanks
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Regards â€¦ Zafar
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>"
>     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>
>     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>,
>     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>"
>     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
>     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Zafar,
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the following
>     >>issues:
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>     of the
>     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating
>     about a
>     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure
>     that
>     >>is
>     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>     >>     >> guaranteed
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
>     please
>     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>     >>     >> optional objects.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
>     the label
>     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
>     draft, the
>     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
>     UNI-C and
>     >>     >> UNI-N node.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> John
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
>     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>]
>     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>     >>     >> defined method.
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Thanks
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >> Regards â€¦ Zafar
>     >>     >>
>     >>     >
>     >>     >
>     >>     > _______________________________________________
>     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
>     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >>     >
>     >>
>     >>     _______________________________________________
>     >>     CCAMP mailing list
>     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> CCAMP mailing list
>     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >
>     >_______________________________________________
>     >CCAMP mailing list
>     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >_______________________________________________
>     >CCAMP mailing list
>     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 

From vishnupavan@gmail.com  Tue Nov  5 07:49:58 2013
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From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Lou,

Yes, your summarized points are correct.

Thanks,
-Pavan.


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

> Pavan,
>         I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the goals ar=
e
> of
> the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms that are
> proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be addressed.
> (While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly important,
> arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of "what" you'd
> like to accomplish.)
>

VPB: Agree.


>
> So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
> 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label


> 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>    should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream label
>
> 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>    is selecting the label.
>
> 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>    you really care about it.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Lou
>
> On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> > I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try and se=
e
> > if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
> >
> > A. "Label Symmetricity":
> >
> > (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asymmetri=
c
> > label scenarios at all?
> > Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
> > explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
> > scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
> > in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
> > configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
> > directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
> >
> > (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
> > them symmetric at each hop?
> > Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
> > Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
> > default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each ho=
p
> > along the path of the LSP.
> >
> > (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed (maybe w=
e
> > even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
> > able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength" setu=
p
> > use-case?
> > Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
> > ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
> > what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
> > needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. W=
e
> > still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the networ=
k
> > - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
> > LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
> > RESV-LABEL for both directions."
> >
> > (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
> > ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
> > Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream node
> > to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
> > is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
> > symmetric.
> >
> > B. "Label Asymmetricity"
> >
> > (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
> > completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
> > asymmetric labels?
> > Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
> > draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to discuss
> > those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) that
> > "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
> > for asymmetricity are use-less.
> >
> > C. "Use-Case"
> >
> > (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
> > assign an upstream label?
> > Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Pavan
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
> > <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi-
> >
> >     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and reverse
> >     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label set - a=
s
> >     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is when
> alien
> >     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction. I am
> not
> >     aware of any example of such use case.
> >
> >     Thanks
> >
> >     Regards =A1=AD Zafar
> >
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com <mailto:
> zhangfatai@huawei.com>>
> >     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
> >     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>"
> >     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>, Vishn=
u
> >     Pavan
> >     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>
> >     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4:  Comments
> >     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >
> >     >Hi Pavan,
> >     >
> >     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
> example to
> >     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
> bidirectiaonal
> >     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
> >     implementations?
> >     >
> >
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >     >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
> >     each hop
> >     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot be
> assumed
> >     >by default.
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >Thanks
> >     >
> >     >Fatai
> >     >
> >     >________________________________________
> >     >=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org>
> >     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>] =B4=FA=B1=
=ED Julien
> >     Meuric
> >     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>]
> >     >=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35
> >     >=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> >     >=B3=AD=CB=CD: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
> >     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >
> >     >Hi Pavan.
> >     >
> >     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
> requirement, I
> >     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
> >     >
> >     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver: you
> don't
> >     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data transmission
> could
> >     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in RSVP-TE
> messages
> >     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but that
> would
> >     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical network..=
.
> >     >
> >     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
> protocol.
> >     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating nodes=
:
> >     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean doin=
g
> the
> >     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
> >     >
> >     >Julien
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> >     >> Lou,
> >     >>
> >     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any backwards
> >     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to change the
> >     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it is n=
ot
> >     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473 to al=
l
> and
> >     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
> existing
> >     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements that
> we
> >     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
> >     of the
> >     >> existing extensions.
> >     >>
> >     >> Base requirement :
> >     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot assign a=
n
> >     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
> >     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
> >     >>
> >     >> Corollary requirements :
> >     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assign=
ed
> >     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what labe=
l
> >     >> needs to get picked.
> >     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a network-assign=
ed
> >     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label that
> needs
> >     >> to get picked.
> >     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the labe=
l
> >     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
> directions.
> >     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
> each
> >     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
> be
> >     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
> >     for the
> >     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along the
> path of
> >     >> the LSP.
> >     >>
> >     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions and
> cater
> >     >> to the above requirements?
> >     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
> >     was to
> >     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
> expedition.
> >     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
> >     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
> >     provided
> >     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me add
> another
> >     >> point -
> >     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL object
> in
> >     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
> >     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength use-cas=
e
> >     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this message=
,
> it
> >     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
> >     wavelength at
> >     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
> >     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that with
> the
> >     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it for th=
e
> >     case
> >     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed yet. I=
f
> >     some
> >     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
> >     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already installed th=
is
> >     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
> >     >>
> >     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
> >     identified by
> >     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg. This
> >     draft
> >     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
> >     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in the
> PATH
> >     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
> >     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
> >     indications,
> >     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios - after the
> >     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
> >     allowed
> >     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I don'=
t
> >     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for Bidirectional LSP
> >     setup
> >     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
> >     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can. Others ca=
n
> >     >> still be happy with their "running code".
> >     >>
> >     >> Regards,
> >     >> -Pavan
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
> >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
> >     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>> wrote:
> >     >>
> >     >>     John, (authors)
> >     >>
> >     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specif=
ic
> >     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
> >     >>
> >     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
> >     expected
> >     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to =
be
> >     >>careful
> >     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away
> from
> >     >>the
> >     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
> >     indicates
> >     >>a
> >     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
> >     >>
> >     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft
> is
> >     >>trying
> >     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream selection =
of
> >     >>     upstream
> >     >>     labels?
> >     >>
> >     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric labe=
l
> >     value
> >     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
> >     included for
> >     >>     completeness?
> >     >>
> >     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to
> >     >>address?
> >     >>
> >     >>     Lou
> >     >>
> >     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >     >>     > Zafar,
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
> >     and your
> >     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm happy
> for
> >     >>     you but
> >     >>     > unimpressed.
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     > John
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
> >     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>> wrote:
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     >> Igor, John-
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>"
> >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
> >     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
> >     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>,
> >     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>"
> >     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>
> >     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
> >     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
> >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Zafar,
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
> >     of the
> >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating
> >     about a
> >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedur=
e
> >     that
> >     >>is
> >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something lik=
e
> >     this:
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
> >     pallet.
> >     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for their
> >     various
> >     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
> >     pretty
> >     >>     >> much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color i=
s
> lighter,
> >     >>and
> >     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
> >     >>constructive
> >     >>     >> technical arguments.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Igor
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard
> that
> >     >>     running
> >     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
> >     >>     running code
> >     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
> >     >>     constructive
> >     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in running
> code
> >     >>(See
> >     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
> >     upstream and
> >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream
> and
> >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable
> label
> >     >>     set and
> >     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code. However,
> your
> >     >>draft
> >     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
> >     mention
> >     >>or
> >     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Regards=A1=ADZafar
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>]
> >     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
> >     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
> >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
> >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Hi John:
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>"
> >     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>
> >     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
> >     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>,
> >     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>"
> >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
> >     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
> >     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
> >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Zafar,
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the followin=
g
> >     >>issues:
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
> >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
> >     of the
> >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating
> >     about a
> >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedur=
e
> >     that
> >     >>is
> >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is no=
t
> >     >>     >> guaranteed
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
> >     please
> >     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed
> using
> >     >>     >> optional objects.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by the
> time
> >     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
> acceptable
> >     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
> information
> >     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
> >     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
> >     the label
> >     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated ho=
p
> by
> >     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
> >     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid
> wavelength
> >     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of crankback=
s,
> >     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
> >     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
> >     draft, the
> >     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
> >     UNI-C and
> >     >>     >> UNI-N node.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> John
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
> >     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>]
> >     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
> >     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
> >     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
> >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
> >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case whe=
re
> >     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
> >     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object
> is
> >     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream
> label
> >     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiv=
er
> >     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
> >     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generat=
ed
> >     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
> Object/".
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr an=
d
> >     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this alread=
y
> >     >>     >> defined method.
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >> Regards =A1=AD Zafar
> >     >>     >>
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     >
> >     >>     > _______________________________________________
> >     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
> >     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >>     >
> >     >>
> >     >>     _______________________________________________
> >     >>     CCAMP mailing list
> >     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.or=
g
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >>
> >     >> _______________________________________________
> >     >> CCAMP mailing list
> >     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >
> >     >_______________________________________________
> >     >CCAMP mailing list
> >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >_______________________________________________
> >     >CCAMP mailing list
> >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
>

--001a113352549251d504ea6ffa78
Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Lou,<div><br></div><div>Yes, your summarized points are co=
rrect.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>-Pavan.<br><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:2=
0 AM, Lou Berger <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" =
target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Pavan,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think this is helpful in trying to understand=
 what the goals are of<br>
the draft. &nbsp;Again, I&#39;ll resist arguing about the mechanisms that a=
re<br>
proposed until we&#39;ve agreed on what requirements need to be addressed.<=
br>
(While the mechanism details, i.e., the &quot;how&quot;, are certainly impo=
rtant,<br>
arguing those doesn&#39;t really answer the larger question of &quot;what&q=
uot; you&#39;d<br>
like to accomplish.)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>VPB: Agree.</div><=
div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
So the list of requirements is now the addition of:<br>
1. Downstream selection of the upstream label</blockquote><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
<br>
2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;should be used in the downstream nodes&#39; choice of upstream=
 label<br>
<br>
3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is selecting the label.<br>
<br>
4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;you really care about it.<br>
<br>
Is this correct?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Lou<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I&#39;ll try a=
nd see<br>
&gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q&amp;A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (1) Aren&#39;t labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asym=
metric<br>
&gt; label scenarios at all?<br>
&gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft<br=
>
&gt; explicitly states that. I haven&#39;t come across any single<br>
&gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out=
<br>
&gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber<br>
&gt; configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both<br>
&gt; directions. But I don&#39;t know if anyone really uses that.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make<=
br>
&gt; them symmetric at each hop?<br>
&gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows &quot;Label<br>
&gt; Asymmetricity&quot; and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed=
 by<br>
&gt; default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each h=
op<br>
&gt; along the path of the LSP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&quot; is always guarante=
ed (maybe we<br>
&gt; even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be=
<br>
&gt; able to use existing extensions and address the &quot;alien-wavelength=
&quot; setup<br>
&gt; use-case?<br>
&gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the<br>
&gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on<=
br>
&gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL<b=
r>
&gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. =
We<br>
&gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the netwo=
rk<br>
&gt; - &quot;please ignore what I&#39;m filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just=
 take the<br>
&gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I&#39;ll use what is returned in=
 the<br>
&gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the<br=
>
&gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?<br>
&gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream nod=
e<br>
&gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing=
<br>
&gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be=
<br>
&gt; symmetric.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; extensions been included =
just for<br>
&gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for<br=
>
&gt; asymmetric labels?<br>
&gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the<=
br>
&gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don&#39;t need to di=
scuss<br>
&gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) tha=
t<br>
&gt; &quot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and that all previous extensio=
ns defined<br>
&gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (5) I don&#39;t understand any of the above. Why do we need the networ=
k to<br>
&gt; assign an upstream label?<br>
&gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
</div></div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.=
com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi-<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward =
and reverse<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; direction, we can use label set along with acceptable la=
bel set - as<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft address=
es is when alien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direc=
tion. I am not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; aware of any example of such use case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regards &hellip; Zafar<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:juli=
en.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.m=
euric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com"=
>julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pavan<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vis=
hnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
vishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.o=
rg</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=
=B4: &nbsp;Comments<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about &nbsp; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Understood what you said in principle, but could you=
 give an example to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for =
the bidirectiaonal<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the r=
eal<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; implementations?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symm=
etricity on<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; each hop<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;along the path of the LSP. But this is something tha=
t cannot be assumed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;by default.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Fatai<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;________________________________________<br>
</div></div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: <a href=3D"mailto:cc=
amp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org</a>&gt;] =B4=FA=B1=ED Julien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Meuric<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;[<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.=
meuric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com=
">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;]<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=
=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 10:35<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=B3=AD=CB=CD: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org=
">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CCAMP] Com=
ments about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-0=
0<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_La=
bel requirement, I<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;need to disagree with the data plane rationale you m=
ention.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;The Upstream_Label refers to the client&#39;s optica=
l receiver: you don&#39;t<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data =
transmission could<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label =
in RSVP-TE messages<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;to the client: I am not really a fan of that approac=
h, but that would<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;fit cases where optical policies are left to the opt=
ical network...<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry wi=
thin the protocol.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;This is more an allocation policy in the hands of al=
locating nodes:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node w=
ould mean doing the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;server job, I am not sure it is desirable.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Julien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Lou,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The extensions defined in this draft do not imp=
ose any backwards<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; compatibility issues. The intent is definitely =
not to change the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you wou=
ld agree, it is not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined=
 in RFC3473 to all and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; sundry. New extensions are being introduced onl=
y where the existing<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; extensions fall short. Let me walk through the =
requirements that we<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; are looking at and that would hopefully explain=
 the limitations<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; existing extensions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Base requirement :<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Need a mechanism for a given node to say that i=
t cannot assign an<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream-label on its own and that it needs the=
 network (read<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream) to assign it instead.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Corollary requirements :<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for=
 a network-assigned<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label without having to specify any in=
puts on what label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; needs to get picked.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for=
 a network-assigned<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label and also specify some choices fo=
r the label that needs<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to get picked.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can si=
mply use the label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; returned in the LABEL object of the RESV messag=
e for both directions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label=
 symmetricity on each<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop along the path of the LSP. But this is some=
thing that cannot be<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to h=
ave a mechanism<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; for the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ingress to request &quot;label symmetricity&quo=
t; at each hop along the path of<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Can you somehow fit a solution using the curren=
t extensions and cater<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to the above requirements?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on =
the mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; was to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on =
a fishing expedition.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The idea was that the downstream node would the=
n respond with a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John=
 and Igor have<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; provided<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; a list of reasons on why that isn&#39;t a great=
 idea. Let me add another<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; point -<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPST=
REAM_LABEL object in<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST =
have already<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; installed/programmed this label. In the alien w=
avelength use-case<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; (discussed in the draft), when the network rece=
ives this message, it<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would mean that the laser has already been tune=
d to this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; wavelength at<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the client. That beats the very purpose of requ=
esting a network<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; assigned upstream label. Doesn&#39;t it? So, th=
e point is that with the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you can=
not use it for the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; case<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; where the upstream-label hasn&#39;t been instal=
led/programmed yet. If<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; some<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; implementation decides to ignore these semantic=
s, how would the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; network know whether the ingress-client has alr=
eady installed this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label or not (whether the laser is already tune=
d or not).<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup r=
equest is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; identified by<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the presence of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; o=
bject in the PATH msg. This<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; does propose 2 other mechanisms:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;Label Symmetricity =
Required&quot; Flag in the PATH<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&=
quot; object in the PATH<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; If a downstream node does not understand any of=
 the above<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; indications,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; it would reject the setup request. In both scen=
arios - after the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; network has assigned the upstream-label, the co=
ncerned node is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allowed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in=
 the PATH. I don&#39;t<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; understand how adding two other mechanisms for =
Bidirectional LSP<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; setup<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; translates to changing fundamental aspects of t=
he protocol.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Implementations that can support these extensio=
ns can. Others can<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; still be happy with their &quot;running code&qu=
ot;.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@l=
abn.net</a>&gt;<br>
</div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<=
a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; John, (authors)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to ref=
ocus a moment on the specific<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing=
 on.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; There&#39;s no question that 3473=
 made certain choices based on<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; expected<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; uses and probabilities that may n=
ot hold, but we do need to be<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;careful<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the=
 protocol (e.g. moving away from<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; use of the upstream label object =
as the basic object that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; indicates<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; So is it fair to say that the mai=
n limitation that the draft is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;trying<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; to address is the inability to su=
pport downstream selection of<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; labels?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The draft also allows for both sy=
mmetric and asymmetric label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; value<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement=
, or asymmetric just<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; included for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completeness?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there other requirements / li=
mitations you are trying to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;address?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lou<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Dr=
ake wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed =
technical issues with RFC3473<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; and your<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; response is that you really =
really like RFC3473. I&#39;m happy for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; you but<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; John<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, =
&quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco=
.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
</div></div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaop=
tical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IB=
ryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4=
, 2013 8:57 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisc=
o.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@junip=
er.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments ab=
out<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indica=
tion as a part of normal protocol<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good de=
sign practice.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and no=
tify message is an integral part<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also ple=
ase note that we are not debating<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being prop=
osed but talking about a procedure<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and =
deployed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I int=
erpret this discussion is something like<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; this:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that whi=
te is a lighter color than black.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black =
is an integral part of the color<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; pallet.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications=
 successfully use black for their<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; various<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementat=
ions, for example, use black for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; pretty<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything&hellip;.=
. So, it is not clear which color is lighter,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other col=
ors at all. :=3D)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your,=
 Zafar, comments IMHO are not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;constructive<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. Th=
is is the first time I have heard that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IET=
F :) This is especially when the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running code<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from =
RFC3473. You are calling it &quot;not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; constructive<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot=
;! Last I heard we believed in running code<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;(See<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the el=
ection day from IETF Atlanta).<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY appli=
cable for a use case where<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelen=
gth are different. When upstream and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelen=
gth are same, use of acceptable label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; set and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects consti=
tute the running code. However, your<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;draft<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that appli=
cability statement nor makes any<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; mention<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;or<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to pr=
ocedure I quoted from RFC3473.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards&hellip;Zafar<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;]<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November=
 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor=
 Bryskin<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.=
org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments =
about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November=
 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisc=
o.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisc=
o.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali=
@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IB=
ryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBr=
yskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp=
@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
</div><div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@iet=
f.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments =
about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this alread=
y defined method has the following<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;issues:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indica=
tion as a part of normal protocol<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good de=
sign practice.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and no=
tify message is an integral part<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also ple=
ase note that we are not debating<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being prop=
osed but talking about a procedure<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and =
deployed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set =
is optional so its presence is not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly =
defined upstream label set. Also<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; please<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of t=
he RSVP-TE protocol are designed using<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it pr=
ovides may be out of date by the time<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementatio=
n issue. A node sending the acceptable<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the respon=
sibility to guarantee that information<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g.,=
 UNI-N implementation can cache<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling tim=
e.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acc=
eptable Label Set is generated hop by<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Lab=
el Set which exercises the entire<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that it=
s use to determine a valid wavelength<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentia=
lly unbounded number of crankbacks,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-ho=
p, with no guarantee that such a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be foun=
d.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align=
 wavelength addressed in this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft, the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set com=
munication is restricted to the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; UNI-C and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<br=
>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*<a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
</div></div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@i=
etf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; [mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;]<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November=
 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.=
com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.=
org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@iet=
f.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@iet=
f.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccam=
p@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comme=
nts about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC347=
3] already considers the case where<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not b=
e acceptable to a downstream<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC=
3473] states that:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path messa=
ge containing an Upstream_Label object is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver f=
irst verifies that the upstream label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the la=
bel is not acceptable, the receiver<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr =
message with a &quot;Routing<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable lab=
el value&quot; indication. The generated<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY incl=
ude an Acceptable Label Set Object/&quot;.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set obj=
ects may be carried in PathErr and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC347=
3].<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does=
 not mention or cover this already<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards &hellip; Zafar<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; ____________________________=
___________________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf=
.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP=
@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</=
a>&gt;&gt;<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; _________________________________=
______________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<br>
</div>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@iet=
f.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAM=
P@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.=
org</a><br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
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From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Tue Nov  5 08:16:02 2013
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
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Lou,
Please, see in-line.

Igor

> 	Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the specific limitatio=
ns the draft is focusing on.
>=20
> There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on expected=20
> uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do need to be careful=20
> when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving away from the=20
> use of the upstream label object as the basic object that indicates a=20
> bidirectional LSP.)
>=20
> IB>> There is no intention to do so.
>=20

I think you have proposed at least a couple of pretty major changes, but if=
 we focus on these details, we risk missing the main point -- so I'd like t=
o leave this until there is understanding, and perhaps agreement on the req=
uirement.

IB>> Which in your opinion of proposed changes may cause problems for exist=
ing deployments?

> So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the draft is trying to=
 address is the inability to support downstream selection of upstream label=
s?
>=20
> IB>> Correct. Considering that both directions are equally important
> for the LSP user, it does not make much sense to have different tools=20
> to negotiate labels in each direction.
>=20

Minimizing mechanisms / avoiding duplication is always a good design object=
ive.  Of course, this also means that if there is a defined mechanism we sh=
ould avoiding changing it unless there's good reason, e.g., it's broken.

IB>> This depends on the definition of "broken". I hope you agree that the =
whole business with the upstream label is meaningful only if one assumes th=
at for a given bidirectional G- LSP labels for the forward and reverse dire=
ctions do not match necessarily. This IMHO is a correct assumption even for=
 WDM layer and also in accordance with RFC3473 addressing other layers as w=
ell. But if one makes such an assumption, one also has to assume that there=
 could be distinct acceptable label sets in the forward and reverse directi=
ons. Let assume that ingress UNI-C likes labels 1,3,5,7,.... In forward dir=
ection and 2,4,6,8,... in reverse direction. When the UNI-C originates Path=
 message, it specifies, for example:
Suggested DS label : 1; DS label set: 1,3,5,7,....; US label: 2
Let's assume that the network sets up the tail of the LSP with DS label =3D=
 3, and US label=3D7 (i.e. it cannot accommodate label 2 for whatever reaso=
n). According to RFC3473 UNI-N will send PathErr with the acceptable upstre=
am label set consisting of exactly one label 7. Please, note that UNI-N in =
case of the WDM layer will always provide exactly one label in the acceptab=
le upstream label set - the one which is already reserved by the network an=
d egress UNI-C for this LSP. All other labels that might be available at th=
e time of the path computation are not reserved and hence could be taken by=
 other LSPs. The question is *what the ingress UNI-C is supposed to do with=
 the signaled acceptable label 7, which is not acceptable for the ingress U=
NI-C as an upstream label?* It will have no other choice but to tear down t=
he established G-LSP and to try it again, guessing another upstream label, =
e.g. 4. This potentially very lengthy ping-pong process will repeat itself =
until the ingress UNI-C either guesses correctly or runs out of guesses. Al=
though it could take an hour to complete the process, technically the appro=
ach is not broken, however, unacceptable if compared to the one signaling r=
ound approach suggested in the draft. =20

> But there are other limitations as well. See below.
>=20
> The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric label value alloc=
ation.  IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just included for completeness=
?
>=20
> IB>> Even in case of WDM layer there are scenarios (e.g. single-fiber
> configurations) when the same wavelength cannot be used for both=20
> directions. For non-WDM layer it is perfectly OK to use=20
> label-asymmetrical LSPs. So we do want to maintain both options.
>=20

okay. it is good to differentiate desirable vs required capabilities.

> Are there other requirements / limitations you are trying to address?
> IB>> Today there is no way to *require* a bi-directional LSP to be label-=
symmetrical.

True.  This has always been a local allocation policy.  It's probably worth=
 describing in greater detail why you see it needs to be changed.

IB>> As John and Pavan mentioned many times already, for a UNI-C (e.g. rout=
er) in the majority of the cases it is required for upstream/downstream lab=
els to be the same. It cannot afford to rely on the UNI-N local policies, w=
hich for whatever reason (e.g. existence of uni-directional P2P or P2MP G-L=
SPs) may locally decide to assign different labels. The point is that UNI-C=
 has no way today to *request* the label symmetricity. =20

Thanks,
Lou
>=20
>=20
> Lou
>=20
> On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>> Zafar,
>>
>> Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473 and your=20
>> response is that you really really like RFC3473.  I'm happy for you=20
>> but unimpressed.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com=20
>> <mailto:zali@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Igor, John-
>>>
>>> Please see in-line.=20
>>>
>>> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,=20
>>> "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net=20
>>> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org=20
>>> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>> Subject: RE: Comments about
>>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>     Zafar,
>>>
>>>     1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>>     operation is not good design practice.
>>>
>>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>>     already implemented and deployed.=20
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is something like this:
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     John: I believe that white is a lighter color than black.
>>>
>>>     Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color pallet.
>>>     Many mature applications successfully use black for their various
>>>     purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for pretty
>>>     much everything..... So, it is not clear which color is lighter, an=
d
>>>     why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not constructive
>>>     technical arguments.
>>>
>>>     Igor
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>> Hi Igor and John:=20
>>>
>>> This is really funny. This is the first time I have heard that=20
>>> running code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the=20
>>> running code is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it=20
>>> "not constructive technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in=20
>>> running code (See your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta)=
.
>>>
>>> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where upstream and=20
>>> downstream alien wavelength are different. When upstream and=20
>>> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of acceptable label set=20
>>> and label set objects constitute the running code. However, your=20
>>> draft neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any=20
>>> mention or cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Regards...Zafar
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>>>     *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>>     *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>>     *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     Hi John:=20
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     Please see in-line.=20
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     Thanks
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     Regards ... Zafar
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>     *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>"
>>>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>>     *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>,
>>>     "IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>"
>>>     <IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>>     draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>     =20
>>>
>>>         Zafar,
>>>
>>>         That because this already defined method has the following issu=
es:
>>>
>>>         1)  Using an error indication as a part of normal protocol
>>>         operation is not good design practice.
>>>
>>>     Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part of the
>>>     RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not debating about a
>>>     new procedure being proposed but talking about a procedure that is
>>>     already implemented and deployed.=20
>>>
>>>         2)  Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence is not
>>>         guaranteed
>>>
>>>     So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also please
>>>     note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are designed using
>>>     optional objects.=20
>>>
>>>         3)  The information it provides may be out of date by the time
>>>         the LSP is re-signaled.
>>>
>>>     This is an implementation issue. A node sending the acceptable
>>>     label set has the responsibility to guarantee that information
>>>     provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>>     re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache the label
>>>     for the re-signaling time.=20
>>>
>>>         4)  Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is generated hop by
>>>         hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the entire
>>>         path.  This means that its use to determine a valid wavelength
>>>         would require a potentially unbounded number of crankbacks,
>>>         both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>>         wavelength could be found.
>>>
>>>     In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this draft, the
>>>     acceptable label set communication is restricted to the UNI-C and
>>>     UNI-N node.=20
>>>
>>>         Yours Irrespectively,
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         John
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>         [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>>         *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>>         *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
>
>>>         *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>         *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>>         draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         Hi Igor and co-authors-
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the case where
>>>         upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>>         node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>>
>>>         "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
>>>         received, the receiver first verifies that the upstream label
>>>         is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the receiver
>>>         /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>>         problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The generated
>>>         PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set Object/".=20
>>>
>>>         Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in PathErr and
>>>         ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         However, your draft does not mention or cover this already
>>>         defined method.=20
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         Thanks
>>>
>>>         =20
>>>
>>>         Regards ... Zafar
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I would add:<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">5. A way for US node (e.g=
. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Lou Berger<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-=
network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lou,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, your summarized points are correct.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Pavan.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pavan,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I think this is helpful in trying to understand=
 what the goals are of<br>
the draft. &nbsp;Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms that are<b=
r>
proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be addressed.<br>
(While the mechanism details, i.e., the &quot;how&quot;, are certainly impo=
rtant,<br>
arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of &quot;what&quot;=
 you'd<br>
like to accomplish.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">VPB: Agree.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
So the list of requirements is now the addition of:<br>
1. Downstream selection of the upstream label<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream lab=
el<br>
<br>
3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;is selecting the label.<br>
<br>
4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;you really care about it.<br>
<br>
Is this correct?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Lou<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try and s=
ee<br>
&gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q&amp;A.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any asymmetr=
ic<br>
&gt; label scenarios at all?<br>
&gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft<br=
>
&gt; explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single<br>
&gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out=
<br>
&gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber<br>
&gt; configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both<br>
&gt; directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make<=
br>
&gt; them symmetric at each hop?<br>
&gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows &quot;Label<br>
&gt; Asymmetricity&quot; and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed=
 by<br>
&gt; default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at each h=
op<br>
&gt; along the path of the LSP.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&quot; is always guarante=
ed (maybe we<br>
&gt; even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be=
<br>
&gt; able to use existing extensions and address the &quot;alien-wavelength=
&quot; setup<br>
&gt; use-case?<br>
&gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the<br>
&gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on<=
br>
&gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL<b=
r>
&gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH out. =
We<br>
&gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the netwo=
rk<br>
&gt; - &quot;please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just tak=
e the<br>
&gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the=
<br>
&gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions.&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the<br=
>
&gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?<br>
&gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream nod=
e<br>
&gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing=
<br>
&gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be=
<br>
&gt; symmetric.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; extensions been included =
just for<br>
&gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for<br=
>
&gt; asymmetric labels?<br>
&gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the<=
br>
&gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to discus=
s<br>
&gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document) tha=
t<br>
&gt; &quot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and that all previous extensio=
ns defined<br>
&gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to=
<br>
&gt; assign an upstream label?<br>
&gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">za=
li@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi-<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward =
and reverse<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; direction, we can use label set along with acceptable la=
bel set - as<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft address=
es is when alien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direc=
tion. I am not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; aware of any example of such use case.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:julie=
n.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.m=
euric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com"=
>julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pavan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vish=
nupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:v=
ishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.o=
rg</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: &nbsp;Comments<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about &nbsp; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstrea=
m-label-00<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Understood what you said in principle, but could you=
 give an example to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for =
the bidirectiaonal<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the r=
eal<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; implementations?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symm=
etricity on<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; each hop<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;along the path of the LSP. But this is something tha=
t cannot be assumed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;by default.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Fatai<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces=
@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bo=
unces@ietf.org</a>&gt;]
<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span> Julien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Meuric<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;[<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.=
meuric@orange.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com=
">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>&gt;]<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>11<span la=
ng=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 10:35<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Vish=
nu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=
=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">
ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=
=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-0=
0<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_La=
bel requirement, I<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;need to disagree with the data plane rationale you m=
ention.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical re=
ceiver: you don't<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data =
transmission could<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label =
in RSVP-TE messages<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;to the client: I am not really a fan of that approac=
h, but that would<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;fit cases where optical policies are left to the opt=
ical network...<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry wi=
thin the protocol.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;This is more an allocation policy in the hands of al=
locating nodes:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node w=
ould mean doing the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;server job, I am not sure it is desirable.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;Julien<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Lou,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The extensions defined in this draft do not imp=
ose any backwards<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; compatibility issues. The intent is definitely =
not to change the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you wou=
ld agree, it is not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined=
 in RFC3473 to all and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; sundry. New extensions are being introduced onl=
y where the existing<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; extensions fall short. Let me walk through the =
requirements that we<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; are looking at and that would hopefully explain=
 the limitations<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; existing extensions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Base requirement :<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Need a mechanism for a given node to say that i=
t cannot assign an<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream-label on its own and that it needs the=
 network (read<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream) to assign it instead.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Corollary requirements :<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for=
 a network-assigned<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label without having to specify any in=
puts on what label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; needs to get picked.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for=
 a network-assigned<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label and also specify some choices fo=
r the label that needs<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to get picked.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can si=
mply use the label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; returned in the LABEL object of the RESV messag=
e for both directions.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label=
 symmetricity on each<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop along the path of the LSP. But this is some=
thing that cannot be<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to h=
ave a mechanism<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; for the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ingress to request &quot;label symmetricity&quo=
t; at each hop along the path of<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Can you somehow fit a solution using the curren=
t extensions and cater<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to the above requirements?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on =
the mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; was to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on =
a fishing expedition.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; The idea was that the downstream node would the=
n respond with a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John=
 and Igor have<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; provided<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; a list of reasons on why that isn't a great ide=
a. Let me add another<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; point -<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPST=
REAM_LABEL object in<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST =
have already<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; installed/programmed this label. In the alien w=
avelength use-case<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; (discussed in the draft), when the network rece=
ives this message, it<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would mean that the laser has already been tune=
d to this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; wavelength at<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the client. That beats the very purpose of requ=
esting a network<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the po=
int is that with the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you can=
not use it for the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; case<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/=
programmed yet. If<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; some<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; implementation decides to ignore these semantic=
s, how would the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; network know whether the ingress-client has alr=
eady installed this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label or not (whether the laser is already tune=
d or not).<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup r=
equest is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; identified by<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the presence of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; o=
bject in the PATH msg. This<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; does propose 2 other mechanisms:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;Label Symmetricity =
Required&quot; Flag in the PATH<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presence of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&=
quot; object in the PATH<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; If a downstream node does not understand any of=
 the above<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; indications,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; it would reject the setup request. In both scen=
arios - after the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; network has assigned the upstream-label, the co=
ncerned node is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allowed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in=
 the PATH. I don't<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; understand how adding two other mechanisms for =
Bidirectional LSP<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; setup<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; translates to changing fundamental aspects of t=
he protocol.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Implementations that can support these extensio=
ns can. Others can<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; still be happy with their &quot;running code&qu=
ot;.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; -Pavan<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@l=
abn.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:lb=
erger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; John, (authors)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to ref=
ocus a moment on the specific<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing=
 on.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; There's no question that 3473 mad=
e certain choices based on<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; expected<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; uses and probabilities that may n=
ot hold, but we do need to be<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;careful<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the=
 protocol (e.g. moving away from<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; use of the upstream label object =
as the basic object that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; indicates<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; So is it fair to say that the mai=
n limitation that the draft is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;trying<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; to address is the inability to su=
pport downstream selection of<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; labels?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; The draft also allows for both sy=
mmetric and asymmetric label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; value<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement=
, or asymmetric just<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; included for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; completeness?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Are there other requirements / li=
mitations you are trying to<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;address?<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lou<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Dr=
ake wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed =
technical issues with RFC3473<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; and your<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; response is that you really =
really like RFC3473. I'm happy for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; you but<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; John<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, =
&quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco=
.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IB=
ryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4=
, 2013 8:57 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@junip=
er.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juni=
per.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper=
.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments ab=
out<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indica=
tion as a part of normal protocol<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good de=
sign practice.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and no=
tify message is an integral part<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also ple=
ase note that we are not debating<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being prop=
osed but talking about a procedure<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and =
deployed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I int=
erpret this discussion is something like<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; this:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that whi=
te is a lighter color than black.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black =
is an integral part of the color<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; pallet.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications=
 successfully use black for their<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; various<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementat=
ions, for example, use black for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; pretty<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything=A1=AD.. =
So, it is not clear which color is lighter,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other col=
ors at all. :=3D)<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your,=
 Zafar, comments IMHO are not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;constructive<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. Th=
is is the first time I have heard that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IET=
F :) This is especially when the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; running code<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from =
RFC3473. You are calling it &quot;not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; constructive<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot=
;! Last I heard we believed in running code<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;(See<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the el=
ection day from IETF Atlanta).<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY appli=
cable for a use case where<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; upstream and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelen=
gth are different. When upstream and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelen=
gth are same, use of acceptable label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; set and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects consti=
tute the running code. However, your<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;draft<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that appli=
cability statement nor makes any<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; mention<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;or<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to pr=
ocedure I quoted from RFC3473.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards=A1=ADZafar<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) =
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;]<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November=
 04, 2013 1:51 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor=
 Bryskin<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.=
org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments =
about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@=
juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdra=
ke@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November=
 3, 2013 11:57 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.=
com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IB=
ryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advao=
ptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp=
@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments =
about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this alread=
y defined method has the following<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;issues:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indica=
tion as a part of normal protocol<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good de=
sign practice.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and no=
tify message is an integral part<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also ple=
ase note that we are not debating<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; about a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being prop=
osed but talking about a procedure<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; that<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and =
deployed.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set =
is optional so its presence is not<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly =
defined upstream label set. Also<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; please<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of t=
he RSVP-TE protocol are designed using<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it pr=
ovides may be out of date by the time<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementatio=
n issue. A node sending the acceptable<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the respon=
sibility to guarantee that information<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptab=
le label set remains valid for<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g.,=
 UNI-N implementation can cache<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; the label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling tim=
e.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acc=
eptable Label Set is generated hop by<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Lab=
el Set which exercises the entire<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that it=
s use to determine a valid wavelength<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentia=
lly unbounded number of crankbacks,<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-ho=
p, with no guarantee that such a<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be foun=
d.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align=
 wavelength addressed in this<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft, the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set com=
munication is restricted to the<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; UNI-C and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<br=
>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*<a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; [mailto:<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;]<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November=
 03, 2013 8:12 AM<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;mailto:<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">I=
Bryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:IBry=
skin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.=
org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto=
:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comme=
nts about<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-netwo=
rk-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC347=
3] already considers the case where<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not b=
e acceptable to a downstream<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC=
3473] states that:<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path messa=
ge containing an Upstream_Label object is<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver f=
irst verifies that the upstream label<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the la=
bel is not acceptable, the receiver<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr =
message with a &quot;Routing<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable lab=
el value&quot; indication. The generated<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY incl=
ude an Acceptable Label Set Object/&quot;.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set obj=
ects may be carried in PathErr and<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC347=
3].<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does=
 not mention or cover this already<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; ____________________________=
___________________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf=
.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP=
@ietf.org</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAM=
P@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org"=
>CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; _________________________________=
______________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D=
"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCA=
MP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf=
.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAM=
P@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.or=
g</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<b=
r>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><=
br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cca=
mp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>=
 &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cca=
mp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; CCAMP mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From lberger@labn.net  Tue Nov  5 08:29:14 2013
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 08:28:40 -0800
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Igor,
	So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when the upstream node selects
the label, right?
>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>        is selecting the label.

Lou

On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> I would add:
> 
> 5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.
> 
>  
> 
> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
> *To:* Lou Berger
> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about
> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> 
>  
> 
> Lou,
> 
>  
> 
> Yes, your summarized points are correct.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Pavan.
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net
> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
> 
> Pavan,
>         I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the goals
> are of
> the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms that are
> proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be addressed.
> (While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly important,
> arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of "what" you'd
> like to accomplish.)
> 
>  
> 
> VPB: Agree.
> 
>  
> 
> 
>     So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
>     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
> 
> 
>     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream label
> 
>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>        is selecting the label.
> 
>     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>        you really care about it.
> 
>     Is this correct?
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Lou
> 
> 
>     On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>     > I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try
>     and see
>     > if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
>     >
>     > A. "Label Symmetricity":
>     >
>     > (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any
>     asymmetric
>     > label scenarios at all?
>     > Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
>     > explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
>     > scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
>     > in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
>     > configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
>     > directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
>     >
>     > (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
>     > them symmetric at each hop?
>     > Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
>     > Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
>     > default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at
>     each hop
>     > along the path of the LSP.
>     >
>     > (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed
>     (maybe we
>     > even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
>     > able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength"
>     setup
>     > use-case?
>     > Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
>     > ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
>     > what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
>     > needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH
>     out. We
>     > still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the
>     network
>     > - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
>     > LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
>     > RESV-LABEL for both directions."
>     >
>     > (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
>     > ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
>     > Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream
>     node
>     > to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
>     > is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
>     > symmetric.
>     >
>     > B. "Label Asymmetricity"
>     >
>     > (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
>     > completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
>     > asymmetric labels?
>     > Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
>     > draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to
>     discuss
>     > those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document)
>     that
>     > "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
>     > for asymmetricity are use-less.
>     >
>     > C. "Use-Case"
>     >
>     > (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
>     > assign an upstream label?
>     > Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     > -Pavan
>     >
>     >
>     > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> 
>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >     Hi-
>     >
>     >     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and
>     reverse
>     >     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label
>     set - as
>     >     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is
>     when alien
>     >     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction.
>     I am not
>     >     aware of any example of such use case.
>     >
>     >     Thanks
>     >
>     >     Regards ¡­ Zafar
>     >
>     >
>     >     -----Original Message-----
> 
>     >     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com
>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>>
>     >     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
> 
>     >     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com
>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>"
>     >     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>>, Vishnu
>     >     Pavan
> 
>     >     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>
>     <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>>
>     >     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> 
>     >     Subject: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´:  Comments
>     >     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >
>     >     >Hi Pavan,
>     >     >
>     >     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
>     example to
>     >     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
>     bidirectiaonal
>     >     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
>     >     implementations?
>     >     >
>     >    
>     >==========================================================================
>     >     >======================================
>     >     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
>     >     each hop
>     >     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
>     be assumed
>     >     >by default.
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >Thanks
>     >     >
>     >     >Fatai
>     >     >
>     >     >________________________________________
> 
>     >     >·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>     >     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>] ´ú
>     ±í Julien
>     >     Meuric
>     >     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>]
> 
>     >     >·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2013Äê11ÔÂ5ÈÕ 10:35
>     >     >ÊÕ¼þÈË: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> 
>     >     >³­ËÍ: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> 
>     >     >Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
>     >     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >     >
>     >     >Hi Pavan.
>     >     >
>     >     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
>     requirement, I
>     >     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
>     >     >
>     >     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver:
>     you don't
>     >     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data
>     transmission could
>     >     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in
>     RSVP-TE messages
>     >     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but
>     that would
>     >     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical
>     network...
>     >     >
>     >     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
>     protocol.
>     >     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating
>     nodes:
>     >     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean
>     doing the
>     >     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
>     >     >
>     >     >Julien
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>     >     >> Lou,
>     >     >>
>     >     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any
>     backwards
>     >     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to
>     change the
>     >     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it
>     is not
>     >     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473
>     to all and
>     >     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
>     existing
>     >     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements
>     that we
>     >     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
>     >     of the
>     >     >> existing extensions.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Base requirement :
>     >     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot
>     assign an
>     >     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
>     >     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Corollary requirements :
>     >     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>     network-assigned
>     >     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what
>     label
>     >     >> needs to get picked.
>     >     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>     network-assigned
>     >     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label
>     that needs
>     >     >> to get picked.
>     >     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the
>     label
>     >     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
>     directions.
>     >     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label
>     symmetricity on each
>     >     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that
>     cannot be
>     >     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
>     >     for the
>     >     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along
>     the path of
>     >     >> the LSP.
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions
>     and cater
>     >     >> to the above requirements?
>     >     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
>     >     was to
>     >     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
>     expedition.
>     >     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
>     >     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
>     >     provided
>     >     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me
>     add another
>     >     >> point -
>     >     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL
>     object in
>     >     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
>     >     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength
>     use-case
>     >     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this
>     message, it
>     >     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
>     >     wavelength at
>     >     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
>     >     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that
>     with the
>     >     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it
>     for the
>     >     case
>     >     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed
>     yet. If
>     >     some
>     >     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
>     >     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already
>     installed this
>     >     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>     >     >>
>     >     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
>     >     identified by
>     >     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg.
>     This
>     >     draft
>     >     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
>     >     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in
>     the PATH
>     >     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
>     >     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
>     >     indications,
>     >     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios -
>     after the
>     >     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
>     >     allowed
>     >     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I
>     don't
>     >     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for
>     Bidirectional LSP
>     >     setup
>     >     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
>     >     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can.
>     Others can
>     >     >> still be happy with their "running code".
>     >     >>
>     >     >> Regards,
>     >     >> -Pavan
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger
>     <lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>     >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
> 
>     >     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>>> wrote:
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     John, (authors)
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the
>     specific
>     >     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
>     >     expected
>     >     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do
>     need to be
>     >     >>careful
>     >     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving
>     away from
>     >     >>the
>     >     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
>     >     indicates
>     >     >>a
>     >     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the
>     draft is
>     >     >>trying
>     >     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream
>     selection of
>     >     >>     upstream
>     >     >>     labels?
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric
>     label
>     >     value
>     >     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
>     >     included for
>     >     >>     completeness?
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are
>     trying to
>     >     >>address?
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     Lou
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>     >     >>     > Zafar,
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
>     >     and your
>     >     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm
>     happy for
>     >     >>     you but
>     >     >>     > unimpressed.
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     > John
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
>     >     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com> <mailto:zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>     >     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>> wrote:
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     >> Igor, John-
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> 
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> 
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>     >     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
> 
>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>     >     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>     >     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>     protocol
>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>     >     of the
>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>     debating
>     >     about a
>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>     procedure
>     >     that
>     >     >>is
>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is
>     something like
>     >     this:
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than
>     black.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
>     >     pallet.
>     >     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for
>     their
>     >     various
>     >     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
>     >     pretty
>     >     >>     >> much everything¡­.. So, it is not clear which color
>     is lighter,
>     >     >>and
>     >     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
>     >     >>constructive
>     >     >>     >> technical arguments.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Igor
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have
>     heard that
>     >     >>     running
>     >     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>     >     >>     running code
>     >     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>     >     >>     constructive
>     >     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in
>     running code
>     >     >>(See
>     >     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
>     >     upstream and
>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When
>     upstream and
>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of
>     acceptable label
>     >     >>     set and
>     >     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code.
>     However, your
>     >     >>draft
>     >     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
>     >     mention
>     >     >>or
>     >     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Regards¡­Zafar
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>]
>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>     >     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Hi John:
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>     >     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>     >     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
> 
>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>     >     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
> 
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> 
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> 
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the
>     following
>     >     >>issues:
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>     protocol
>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>     >     of the
>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>     debating
>     >     about a
>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>     procedure
>     >     that
>     >     >>is
>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence
>     is not
>     >     >>     >> guaranteed
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
>     >     please
>     >     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are
>     designed using
>     >     >>     >> optional objects.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by
>     the time
>     >     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
>     acceptable
>     >     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
>     information
>     >     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>     >     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
>     >     the label
>     >     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is
>     generated hop by
>     >     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the
>     entire
>     >     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid
>     wavelength
>     >     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of
>     crankbacks,
>     >     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>     >     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
>     >     draft, the
>     >     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
>     >     UNI-C and
>     >     >>     >> UNI-N node.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> John
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> 
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> 
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>>
>     >     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>]
>     >     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>     >     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> 
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> 
>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> 
>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the
>     case where
>     >     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>     >     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label
>     object is
>     >     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the
>     upstream label
>     >     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the
>     receiver
>     >     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>     >     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The
>     generated
>     >     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
>     Object/".
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in
>     PathErr and
>     >     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this
>     already
>     >     >>     >> defined method.
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>     >     >>     >>
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>     > _______________________________________________
>     >     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
>     >     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> 
>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
> 
>     >     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >     >>     >
>     >     >>
>     >     >>     _______________________________________________
>     >     >>     CCAMP mailing list
> 
>     >     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> 
>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
>     >     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >>
>     >     >> _______________________________________________
>     >     >> CCAMP mailing list
>     >     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     >     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >     >
>     >     >_______________________________________________
>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >     >_______________________________________________
>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > CCAMP mailing list
>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>     >
> 
>  
> 

From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Tue Nov  5 08:39:51 2013
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W0NDQU1QXSC08Li0OiBDb21tZW50cyBhYm91dCBkcmFmdC1iZWVyYW0tY2Nh?= =?gb2312?Q?mp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00?=
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 16:38:27 +0000
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From lberger@labn.net  Tue Nov  5 10:06:52 2013
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 10:05:51 -0800
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References: <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA89932@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CE9DDCED.81368%zali@cisco.com> <CA+YzgTumNUY_bUWVr1RCMFsx3wwt-p0eOe-RDUjX1f0x_0peXw@mail.gmail.com> <52790CAD.80003@labn.net> <CA+YzgTt9d1Q=ek=J=Cmk+gb4r4NfcHEtpWe0PAfA2CcxBB7aug@mail.gmail.com> <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192C9FBB@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com> <52791CB8.4000706@labn.net> <CDAC6F6F5401B245A2C68D0CF8AFDF0A192CA009@atl-srv-mail10.atl.advaoptical.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBDb21tZW50cyBhYm91dCBkcmFmdC1iZWVy?= =?utf-8?q?am-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00?=
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Igor,

I'm sorry. I don't understand how what your are saying differs from 1 and 3 
below.  Does it, or are you just agreeing?

 Lou


On November 5, 2013 8:38:27 AM Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com> wrote:
> Actually, I want to have an option for UNI-C to say:
> a) I want the network to assign both labels;
> b) I don't care about the values, but US label must be the same as DS lablel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 
> 11:29 AM
> To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ç­”å¤�: Comments about 
> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>
> Igor,
> 	So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when the upstream node selects 
> the label, right?
> >     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
> >        is selecting the label.
>
> Lou
>
> On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> > I would add:
> > 5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.
> >
> > *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf 
> Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
> > *To:* Lou Berger
> > *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ç­”å¤�: Comments about
> > draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >
> > Lou,
> >
> > Yes, your summarized points are correct.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Pavan.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net 
> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
> > Pavan,
> >         I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the goals > 
> are of the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms > that 
> are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be > addressed.
> > (While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly important, 
> arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of "what" you'd 
> like to accomplish.)
> >
> > VPB: Agree.
> >
> >     So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
> >     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
> >
> >     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
> >        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream > label
> >     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
> >        is selecting the label.
> >     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
> >        you really care about it.
> >     Is this correct?
> >     Thanks,
> >     Lou
> >
> >     On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> >     > I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try
> >     and see
> >     > if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
> >     >
> >     > A. "Label Symmetricity":
> >     >
> >     > (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any
> >     asymmetric
> >     > label scenarios at all?
> >     > Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
> >     > explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
> >     > scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
> >     > in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
> >     > configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
> >     > directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
> >     >
> >     > (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
> >     > them symmetric at each hop?
> >     > Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
> >     > Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
> >     > default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at
> >     each hop
> >     > along the path of the LSP.
> >     >
> >     > (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed
> >     (maybe we
> >     > even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
> >     > able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength"
> >     setup
> >     > use-case?
> >     > Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
> >     > ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
> >     > what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
> >     > needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH
> >     out. We
> >     > still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the
> >     network
> >     > - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
> >     > LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
> >     > RESV-LABEL for both directions."
> >     >
> >     > (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
> >     > ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
> >     > Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream
> >     node
> >     > to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
> >     > is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
> >     > symmetric.
> >     >
> >     > B. "Label Asymmetricity"
> >     >
> >     > (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
> >     > completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
> >     > asymmetric labels?
> >     > Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
> >     > draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to
> >     discuss
> >     > those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document)
> >     that
> >     > "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
> >     > for asymmetricity are use-less.
> >     >
> >     > C. "Use-Case"
> >     >
> >     > (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
> >     > assign an upstream label?
> >     > Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     > -Pavan
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     Hi-
> >     >
> >     >     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and
> >     reverse
> >     >     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label
> >     set - as
> >     >     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is
> >     when alien
> >     >     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction.
> >     I am not
> >     >     aware of any example of such use case.
> >     >
> >     >     Thanks
> >     >
> >     >     Regards â€¦ Zafar
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     -----Original Message-----
> >     >     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com
> >     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
> >     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>>
> >     >     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
> >     >     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com
> >     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
> >     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>"
> >     >     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
> >     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
> >     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>>, Vishnu
> >     >     Pavan
> >     >     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>
> >     <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>>
> >     >     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     Subject: [CCAMP] ç­”å¤�:  Comments
> >     >     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >
> >     >     >Hi Pavan,
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
> >     example to
> >     >     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
> >     bidirectiaonal
> >     >     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
> >     >     implementations?
> >     >     >
> >     > 
> >==========================================================================
> >     >     >======================================
> >     >     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
> >     >     each hop
> >     >     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
> >     be assumed
> >     >     >by default.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Thanks
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Fatai
> >     >     >
> >     >     >________________________________________
> >     >     >å�‘ä»¶äºº: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
> >     >     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>] ä»£
> >     è¡¨ Julien
> >     >     Meuric
> >     >     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
> >     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com > <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>]
> >     >     >å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´: 2013å¹´11æœˆ5æ—¥ 10:35
> >     >     >æ”¶ä»¶äºº: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> >     >     >æŠ„é€�: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >ä¸»é¢˜: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
> >     >     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Hi Pavan.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
> >     requirement, I
> >     >     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver:
> >     you don't
> >     >     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data
> >     transmission could
> >     >     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in
> >     RSVP-TE messages
> >     >     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but
> >     that would
> >     >     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical
> >     network...
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
> >     protocol.
> >     >     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating
> >     nodes:
> >     >     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean
> >     doing the
> >     >     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
> >     >     >
> >     >     >Julien
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
> >     >     >> Lou,
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any
> >     backwards
> >     >     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to
> >     change the
> >     >     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it
> >     is not
> >     >     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473
> >     to all and
> >     >     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
> >     existing
> >     >     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements
> >     that we
> >     >     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
> >     >     of the
> >     >     >> existing extensions.
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> Base requirement :
> >     >     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot
> >     assign an
> >     >     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
> >     >     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> Corollary requirements :
> >     >     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
> >     network-assigned
> >     >     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what
> >     label
> >     >     >> needs to get picked.
> >     >     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
> >     network-assigned
> >     >     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label
> >     that needs
> >     >     >> to get picked.
> >     >     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the
> >     label
> >     >     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
> >     directions.
> >     >     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label
> >     symmetricity on each
> >     >     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that
> >     cannot be
> >     >     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
> >     >     for the
> >     >     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along
> >     the path of
> >     >     >> the LSP.
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions
> >     and cater
> >     >     >> to the above requirements?
> >     >     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
> >     >     was to
> >     >     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
> >     expedition.
> >     >     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
> >     >     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
> >     >     provided
> >     >     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me
> >     add another
> >     >     >> point -
> >     >     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL
> >     object in
> >     >     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
> >     >     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength
> >     use-case
> >     >     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this
> >     message, it
> >     >     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
> >     >     wavelength at
> >     >     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
> >     >     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that
> >     with the
> >     >     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it
> >     for the
> >     >     case
> >     >     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed
> >     yet. If
> >     >     some
> >     >     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
> >     >     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already
> >     installed this
> >     >     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
> >     >     identified by
> >     >     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg.
> >     This
> >     >     draft
> >     >     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
> >     >     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in
> >     the PATH
> >     >     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
> >     >     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
> >     >     indications,
> >     >     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios -
> >     after the
> >     >     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
> >     >     allowed
> >     >     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I
> >     don't
> >     >     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for
> >     Bidirectional LSP
> >     >     setup
> >     >     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
> >     >     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can.
> >     Others can
> >     >     >> still be happy with their "running code".
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> Regards,
> >     >     >> -Pavan
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger
> >     <lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
> >     >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
> >     >     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
> >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     John, (authors)
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the
> >     specific
> >     >     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
> >     >     expected
> >     >     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do
> >     need to be
> >     >     >>careful
> >     >     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving
> >     away from
> >     >     >>the
> >     >     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
> >     >     indicates
> >     >     >>a
> >     >     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the
> >     draft is
> >     >     >>trying
> >     >     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream
> >     selection of
> >     >     >>     upstream
> >     >     >>     labels?
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric
> >     label
> >     >     value
> >     >     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
> >     >     included for
> >     >     >>     completeness?
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are
> >     trying to
> >     >     >>address?
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     Lou
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
> >     >     >>     > Zafar,
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
> >     >     and your
> >     >     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm
> >     happy for
> >     >     >>     you but
> >     >     >>     > unimpressed.
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     > John
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
> >     >     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com> <mailto:zali@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
> >     >     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>> wrote:
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     >> Igor, John-
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
> >     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
> >     >     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
> >     >     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
> >     >     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
> >     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Zafar,
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
> >     protocol
> >     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
> >     >     of the
> >     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
> >     debating
> >     >     about a
> >     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
> >     procedure
> >     >     that
> >     >     >>is
> >     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is
> >     something like
> >     >     this:
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than
> >     black.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
> >     >     pallet.
> >     >     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for
> >     their
> >     >     various
> >     >     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
> >     >     pretty
> >     >     >>     >> much everythingâ€¦.. So, it is not clear which color
> >     is lighter,
> >     >     >>and
> >     >     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
> >     >     >>constructive
> >     >     >>     >> technical arguments.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Igor
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have
> >     heard that
> >     >     >>     running
> >     >     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
> >     >     >>     running code
> >     >     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
> >     >     >>     constructive
> >     >     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in
> >     running code
> >     >     >>(See
> >     >     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
> >     >     upstream and
> >     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When
> >     upstream and
> >     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of
> >     acceptable label
> >     >     >>     set and
> >     >     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code.
> >     However, your
> >     >     >>draft
> >     >     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
> >     >     mention
> >     >     >>or
> >     >     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Regardsâ€¦Zafar
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>]
> >     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
> >     >     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
> >     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
> >     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Hi John:
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Regards â€¦ Zafar
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
> >     >     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
> >     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
> >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
> >     >     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> >     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
> >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
> >     >     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
> >     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
> >     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Zafar,
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the
> >     following
> >     >     >>issues:
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
> >     protocol
> >     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
> >     >     of the
> >     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
> >     debating
> >     >     about a
> >     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
> >     procedure
> >     >     that
> >     >     >>is
> >     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence
> >     is not
> >     >     >>     >> guaranteed
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
> >     >     please
> >     >     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are
> >     designed using
> >     >     >>     >> optional objects.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by
> >     the time
> >     >     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
> >     acceptable
> >     >     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
> >     information
> >     >     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
> >     >     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
> >     >     the label
> >     >     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is
> >     generated hop by
> >     >     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the
> >     entire
> >     >     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid
> >     wavelength
> >     >     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of
> >     crankbacks,
> >     >     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
> >     >     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
> >     >     draft, the
> >     >     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
> >     >     UNI-C and
> >     >     >>     >> UNI-N node.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> John
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>]
> >     >     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
> >     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
> >     >     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
> >     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
> >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
> >     >     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
> >     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the
> >     case where
> >     >     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
> >     >     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label
> >     object is
> >     >     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the
> >     upstream label
> >     >     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the
> >     receiver
> >     >     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
> >     >     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The
> >     generated
> >     >     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
> >     Object/".
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in
> >     PathErr and
> >     >     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this
> >     already
> >     >     >>     >> defined method.
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Thanks
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >> Regards â€¦ Zafar
> >     >     >>     >>
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>     > _______________________________________________
> >     >     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
> >     >     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >     >>     >
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>     _______________________________________________
> >     >     >>     CCAMP mailing list
> >     >     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
> >     >     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >>
> >     >     >> _______________________________________________
> >     >     >> CCAMP mailing list
> >     >     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >     >
> >     >     >_______________________________________________
> >     >     >CCAMP mailing list
> >     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >     >_______________________________________________
> >     >     >CCAMP mailing list
> >     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
> >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
> >     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > CCAMP mailing list
> >     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
> >     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >     >
> >



From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Tue Nov  5 10:09:21 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-11.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized M=
PLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks
	Author(s)       : Daniele Ceccarelli
                          Fatai Zhang
                          Sergio Belotti
                          Rajan Rao
                          John E Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-11.txt
	Pages           : 35
	Date            : 2013-11-05

Abstract:
   This document describes Open Shortest Path First - Traffic
   Engineering (OSPF-TE) routing protocol extensions to support
   Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) control of Optical Transport Networks (OTN)
   specified in ITU-T Recommendation G.709 as published in 2012.  It
   extends mechanisms defined in RFC4203.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Great. So this is a nice short list.  I think the utility of
requirements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both
symmetric and asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber
rings.  While I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I  (with no
hat on) accept the use case.

I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to "put label symmetry
into the protocol" (Juilien's question)

Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?

Thanks,
Lou

On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> Lou,
> 
>>     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
>>
>>
>>     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>>        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream 
>> label
>>
>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>        is selecting the label.
>>
>>     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>>        you really care about it.
>>
> I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM
> To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> 
> Igor,
> 	So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when the upstream node selects the label, right?
>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>        is selecting the label.
> 
> Lou
> 
> On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
>> I would add:
>>
>> 5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On 
>> Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
>> *To:* Lou Berger
>> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about
>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>>  
>>
>> Lou,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Yes, your summarized points are correct.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Pavan.
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net 
>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Pavan,
>>         I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the goals 
>> are of the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the mechanisms 
>> that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements need to be 
>> addressed.
>> (While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly 
>> important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of 
>> "what" you'd like to accomplish.)
>>
>>  
>>
>> VPB: Agree.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>     So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
>>     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
>>
>>
>>     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>>        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream 
>> label
>>
>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>        is selecting the label.
>>
>>     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>>        you really care about it.
>>
>>     Is this correct?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Lou
>>
>>
>>     On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>>     > I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try
>>     and see
>>     > if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
>>     >
>>     > A. "Label Symmetricity":
>>     >
>>     > (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any
>>     asymmetric
>>     > label scenarios at all?
>>     > Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
>>     > explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
>>     > scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
>>     > in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
>>     > configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
>>     > directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
>>     >
>>     > (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
>>     > them symmetric at each hop?
>>     > Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
>>     > Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
>>     > default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at
>>     each hop
>>     > along the path of the LSP.
>>     >
>>     > (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed
>>     (maybe we
>>     > even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
>>     > able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength"
>>     setup
>>     > use-case?
>>     > Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
>>     > ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
>>     > what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
>>     > needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH
>>     out. We
>>     > still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the
>>     network
>>     > - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
>>     > LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
>>     > RESV-LABEL for both directions."
>>     >
>>     > (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
>>     > ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
>>     > Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream
>>     node
>>     > to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
>>     > is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
>>     > symmetric.
>>     >
>>     > B. "Label Asymmetricity"
>>     >
>>     > (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
>>     > completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
>>     > asymmetric labels?
>>     > Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
>>     > draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to
>>     discuss
>>     > those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document)
>>     that
>>     > "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
>>     > for asymmetricity are use-less.
>>     >
>>     > C. "Use-Case"
>>     >
>>     > (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
>>     > assign an upstream label?
>>     > Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > Regards,
>>     > -Pavan
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>
>>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     >     Hi-
>>     >
>>     >     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and
>>     reverse
>>     >     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label
>>     set - as
>>     >     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is
>>     when alien
>>     >     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction.
>>     I am not
>>     >     aware of any example of such use case.
>>     >
>>     >     Thanks
>>     >
>>     >     Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >     -----Original Message-----
>>
>>     >     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>>
>>     >     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
>>
>>     >     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com
>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>"
>>     >     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>>, Vishnu
>>     >     Pavan
>>
>>     >     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>
>>     <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>>
>>     >     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>
>>     >     Subject: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´:  Comments
>>     >     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >
>>     >     >Hi Pavan,
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
>>     example to
>>     >     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
>>     bidirectiaonal
>>     >     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
>>     >     implementations?
>>     >     >
>>     >    
>>     >==========================================================================
>>     >     >======================================
>>     >     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
>>     >     each hop
>>     >     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
>>     be assumed
>>     >     >by default.
>>     >     >
>>     >     >
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Thanks
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Fatai
>>     >     >
>>     >     >________________________________________
>>
>>     >     >·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>>     >     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>] ´ú
>>     ±í Julien
>>     >     Meuric
>>     >     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com 
>> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>]
>>
>>     >     >·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2013Äê11ÔÂ5ÈÕ 10:35
>>     >     >ÊÕ¼þÈË: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>>
>>     >     >³­ËÍ: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>
>>     >     >Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
>>     >     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Hi Pavan.
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
>>     requirement, I
>>     >     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
>>     >     >
>>     >     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver:
>>     you don't
>>     >     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data
>>     transmission could
>>     >     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in
>>     RSVP-TE messages
>>     >     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but
>>     that would
>>     >     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical
>>     network...
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
>>     protocol.
>>     >     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating
>>     nodes:
>>     >     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean
>>     doing the
>>     >     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
>>     >     >
>>     >     >Julien
>>     >     >
>>     >     >
>>     >     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>>     >     >> Lou,
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any
>>     backwards
>>     >     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to
>>     change the
>>     >     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it
>>     is not
>>     >     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473
>>     to all and
>>     >     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
>>     existing
>>     >     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements
>>     that we
>>     >     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
>>     >     of the
>>     >     >> existing extensions.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> Base requirement :
>>     >     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot
>>     assign an
>>     >     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
>>     >     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> Corollary requirements :
>>     >     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>>     network-assigned
>>     >     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what
>>     label
>>     >     >> needs to get picked.
>>     >     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>>     network-assigned
>>     >     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label
>>     that needs
>>     >     >> to get picked.
>>     >     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the
>>     label
>>     >     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
>>     directions.
>>     >     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label
>>     symmetricity on each
>>     >     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that
>>     cannot be
>>     >     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
>>     >     for the
>>     >     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along
>>     the path of
>>     >     >> the LSP.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions
>>     and cater
>>     >     >> to the above requirements?
>>     >     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
>>     >     was to
>>     >     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
>>     expedition.
>>     >     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
>>     >     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
>>     >     provided
>>     >     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me
>>     add another
>>     >     >> point -
>>     >     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL
>>     object in
>>     >     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
>>     >     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength
>>     use-case
>>     >     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this
>>     message, it
>>     >     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
>>     >     wavelength at
>>     >     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
>>     >     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that
>>     with the
>>     >     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it
>>     for the
>>     >     case
>>     >     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed
>>     yet. If
>>     >     some
>>     >     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
>>     >     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already
>>     installed this
>>     >     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
>>     >     identified by
>>     >     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg.
>>     This
>>     >     draft
>>     >     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
>>     >     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in
>>     the PATH
>>     >     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
>>     >     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
>>     >     indications,
>>     >     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios -
>>     after the
>>     >     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
>>     >     allowed
>>     >     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I
>>     don't
>>     >     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for
>>     Bidirectional LSP
>>     >     setup
>>     >     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
>>     >     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can.
>>     Others can
>>     >     >> still be happy with their "running code".
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> Regards,
>>     >     >> -Pavan
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger
>>     <lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>>     >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
>>
>>     >     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>>> wrote:
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     John, (authors)
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the
>>     specific
>>     >     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
>>     >     expected
>>     >     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do
>>     need to be
>>     >     >>careful
>>     >     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving
>>     away from
>>     >     >>the
>>     >     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
>>     >     indicates
>>     >     >>a
>>     >     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the
>>     draft is
>>     >     >>trying
>>     >     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream
>>     selection of
>>     >     >>     upstream
>>     >     >>     labels?
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric
>>     label
>>     >     value
>>     >     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
>>     >     included for
>>     >     >>     completeness?
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are
>>     trying to
>>     >     >>address?
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     Lou
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>     >     >>     > Zafar,
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
>>     >     and your
>>     >     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm
>>     happy for
>>     >     >>     you but
>>     >     >>     > unimpressed.
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     > John
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
>>     >     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com> <mailto:zali@cisco.com
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>     >     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>> wrote:
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     >> Igor, John-
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>>     >     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>>     >     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>>     >     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>>     protocol
>>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>>     >     of the
>>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>>     debating
>>     >     about a
>>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>>     procedure
>>     >     that
>>     >     >>is
>>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is
>>     something like
>>     >     this:
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than
>>     black.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
>>     >     pallet.
>>     >     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for
>>     their
>>     >     various
>>     >     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
>>     >     pretty
>>     >     >>     >> much everything¡­.. So, it is not clear which color
>>     is lighter,
>>     >     >>and
>>     >     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
>>     >     >>constructive
>>     >     >>     >> technical arguments.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Igor
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have
>>     heard that
>>     >     >>     running
>>     >     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>>     >     >>     running code
>>     >     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>>     >     >>     constructive
>>     >     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in
>>     running code
>>     >     >>(See
>>     >     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
>>     >     upstream and
>>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When
>>     upstream and
>>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of
>>     acceptable label
>>     >     >>     set and
>>     >     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code.
>>     However, your
>>     >     >>draft
>>     >     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
>>     >     mention
>>     >     >>or
>>     >     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Regards¡­Zafar
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>]
>>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>     >     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Hi John:
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>>     >     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>     >     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>>     >     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the
>>     following
>>     >     >>issues:
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>>     protocol
>>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>>     >     of the
>>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>>     debating
>>     >     about a
>>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>>     procedure
>>     >     that
>>     >     >>is
>>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence
>>     is not
>>     >     >>     >> guaranteed
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
>>     >     please
>>     >     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are
>>     designed using
>>     >     >>     >> optional objects.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by
>>     the time
>>     >     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
>>     acceptable
>>     >     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
>>     information
>>     >     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>     >     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
>>     >     the label
>>     >     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is
>>     generated hop by
>>     >     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the
>>     entire
>>     >     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid
>>     wavelength
>>     >     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of
>>     crankbacks,
>>     >     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>     >     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
>>     >     draft, the
>>     >     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
>>     >     UNI-C and
>>     >     >>     >> UNI-N node.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> John
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>]
>>     >     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>     >     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the
>>     case where
>>     >     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>     >     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label
>>     object is
>>     >     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the
>>     upstream label
>>     >     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the
>>     receiver
>>     >     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>     >     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The
>>     generated
>>     >     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
>>     Object/".
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in
>>     PathErr and
>>     >     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this
>>     already
>>     >     >>     >> defined method.
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>     >     >>     >>
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>     > _______________________________________________
>>     >     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
>>     >     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
>>
>>     >     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >     >>     >
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     _______________________________________________
>>     >     >>     CCAMP mailing list
>>
>>     >     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>
>>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
>>     >     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >> _______________________________________________
>>     >     >> CCAMP mailing list
>>     >     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>     >     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >     >
>>     >     >_______________________________________________
>>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >     >_______________________________________________
>>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>     > CCAMP mailing list
>>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>     >
>>
>>  
>>


From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Tue Nov  5 11:42:57 2013
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From: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Evaluation of existing GMPLS encoding against G.709v3 Op=
tical Transport Networks (OTN)
	Author(s)       : Sergio Belotti
                          Pietro Vittorio Grandi
                          Daniele Ceccarelli
                          Diego Caviglia
                          Fatai Zhang
                          Dan Li
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13.txt
	Pages           : 23
	Date            : 2013-11-05

Abstract:
   ITU-T recommendation [G.709-2012] has introduced new fixed and
   flexible Optical Data Unit (ODU) containers in Optical Transport
   Networks (OTNs).

   This document provides an evaluation of existing Generalized
   Multiprotocol Label Switching (GMPLS) routing and signaling protocols
   against the G.709 OTN networks.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Igor,

On 11/5/2013 11:42 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
> Lou,
> In majority of the cases UNI-Cs would want to have their G-LSPs label-symmetrical. 

Every time you say UNI-C I've been assuming you mean ingress, is this
correct?

> If the label symmetricity is left to the local policy of the network,
> the latter may decide (e.g. because of existing unidirectional LSPs
> set up for other users or P2MP LSPs) to assign different labels for
> US and DS unless there is an explicit constraint signaled from the
> UNI-C to make symmetrical or fail the setup.
> 

So you believe there is a use case where some nodes will assign
asymmetric labels for the same service, and other nodes along the LSP
only support symmetric labels.  Right?

Lou

> Igor
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
> 
> Great. So this is a nice short list.  I think the utility of requirements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both symmetric and asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber rings.  While I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I  (with no hat on) accept the use case.
> 
> I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to "put label symmetry into the protocol" (Juilien's question)
> 
> Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?
> 
> Thanks,
> Lou
> 
> On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
>> Lou,
>>
>>>     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
>>>
>>>
>>>     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>>>        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream 
>>> label
>>>
>>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>>        is selecting the label.
>>>
>>>     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>>>        you really care about it.
>>>
>> I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM
>> To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about 
>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>
>> Igor,
>> 	So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when the upstream node selects the label, right?
>>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>>        is selecting the label.
>>
>> Lou
>>
>> On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
>>> I would add:
>>>
>>> 5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
>>> *To:* Lou Berger
>>> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about
>>> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Lou,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Yes, your summarized points are correct.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Pavan.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net 
>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Pavan,
>>>         I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the 
>>> goals are of the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the 
>>> mechanisms that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements 
>>> need to be addressed.
>>> (While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly 
>>> important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of 
>>> "what" you'd like to accomplish.)
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> VPB: Agree.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>     So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
>>>     1. Downstream selection of the upstream label
>>>
>>>
>>>     2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
>>>        should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream 
>>> label
>>>
>>>     3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
>>>        is selecting the label.
>>>
>>>     4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
>>>        you really care about it.
>>>
>>>     Is this correct?
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>     Lou
>>>
>>>
>>>     On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>>>     > I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try
>>>     and see
>>>     > if I can answer them all using the following Q&A.
>>>     >
>>>     > A. "Label Symmetricity":
>>>     >
>>>     > (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any
>>>     asymmetric
>>>     > label scenarios at all?
>>>     > Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
>>>     > explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
>>>     > scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
>>>     > in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
>>>     > configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
>>>     > directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
>>>     >
>>>     > (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
>>>     > them symmetric at each hop?
>>>     > Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
>>>     > Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
>>>     > default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at
>>>     each hop
>>>     > along the path of the LSP.
>>>     >
>>>     > (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed
>>>     (maybe we
>>>     > even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
>>>     > able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength"
>>>     setup
>>>     > use-case?
>>>     > Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
>>>     > ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
>>>     > what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
>>>     > needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH
>>>     out. We
>>>     > still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the
>>>     network
>>>     > - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
>>>     > LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
>>>     > RESV-LABEL for both directions."
>>>     >
>>>     > (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
>>>     > ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
>>>     > Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream
>>>     node
>>>     > to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
>>>     > is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
>>>     > symmetric.
>>>     >
>>>     > B. "Label Asymmetricity"
>>>     >
>>>     > (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
>>>     > completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
>>>     > asymmetric labels?
>>>     > Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
>>>     > draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to
>>>     discuss
>>>     > those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document)
>>>     that
>>>     > "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
>>>     > for asymmetricity are use-less.
>>>     >
>>>     > C. "Use-Case"
>>>     >
>>>     > (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
>>>     > assign an upstream label?
>>>     > Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > Regards,
>>>     > -Pavan
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>
>>>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >     Hi-
>>>     >
>>>     >     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and
>>>     reverse
>>>     >     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label
>>>     set - as
>>>     >     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is
>>>     when alien
>>>     >     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction.
>>>     I am not
>>>     >     aware of any example of such use case.
>>>     >
>>>     >     Thanks
>>>     >
>>>     >     Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >     -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>     >     From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com> <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com
>>>     <mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>>
>>>     >     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM
>>>
>>>     >     To: "julien.meuric@orange.com
>>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>"
>>>     >     <julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com
>>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>>, Vishnu
>>>     >     Pavan
>>>
>>>     >     Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>
>>>     <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com <mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com>>>
>>>     >     Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>
>>>     >     Subject: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´:  Comments
>>>     >     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >
>>>     >     >Hi Pavan,
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
>>>     example to
>>>     >     >show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
>>>     bidirectiaonal
>>>     >     >LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
>>>     >     implementations?
>>>     >     >
>>>     >    
>>>     >==========================================================================
>>>     >     >======================================
>>>     >     >In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
>>>     >     each hop
>>>     >     >along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
>>>     be assumed
>>>     >     >by default.
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Thanks
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Fatai
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >________________________________________
>>>
>>>     >     >·¢¼þÈË: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>] ´ú
>>>     ±í Julien
>>>     >     Meuric
>>>     >     >[julien.meuric@orange.com <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>
>>>     <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com 
>>> <mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com>>]
>>>
>>>     >     >·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2013Äê11ÔÂ5ÈÕ 10:35
>>>     >     >ÊÕ¼þÈË: Vishnu Pavan Beeram
>>>
>>>     >     >³­ËÍ: ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>>     >     >Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
>>>     >     >draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Hi Pavan.
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
>>>     requirement, I
>>>     >     >need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver:
>>>     you don't
>>>     >     >need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data
>>>     transmission could
>>>     >     >even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in
>>>     RSVP-TE messages
>>>     >     >to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but
>>>     that would
>>>     >     >fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical
>>>     network...
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
>>>     protocol.
>>>     >     >This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating
>>>     nodes:
>>>     >     >requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean
>>>     doing the
>>>     >     >server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >Julien
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
>>>     >     >> Lou,
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any
>>>     backwards
>>>     >     >> compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to
>>>     change the
>>>     >     >> fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it
>>>     is not
>>>     >     >> mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473
>>>     to all and
>>>     >     >> sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
>>>     existing
>>>     >     >> extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements
>>>     that we
>>>     >     >> are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
>>>     >     of the
>>>     >     >> existing extensions.
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> Base requirement :
>>>     >     >> Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot
>>>     assign an
>>>     >     >> upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
>>>     >     >> downstream) to assign it instead.
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> Corollary requirements :
>>>     >     >> 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>>>     network-assigned
>>>     >     >> upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what
>>>     label
>>>     >     >> needs to get picked.
>>>     >     >> 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
>>>     network-assigned
>>>     >     >> upstream label and also specify some choices for the label
>>>     that needs
>>>     >     >> to get picked.
>>>     >     >> 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the
>>>     label
>>>     >     >> returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
>>>     directions.
>>>     >     >> In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label
>>>     symmetricity on each
>>>     >     >> hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that
>>>     cannot be
>>>     >     >> assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
>>>     >     for the
>>>     >     >> ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along
>>>     the path of
>>>     >     >> the LSP.
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions
>>>     and cater
>>>     >     >> to the above requirements?
>>>     >     >> We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
>>>     >     was to
>>>     >     >> set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
>>>     expedition.
>>>     >     >> The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
>>>     >     >> PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
>>>     >     provided
>>>     >     >> a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me
>>>     add another
>>>     >     >> point -
>>>     >     >> - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL
>>>     object in
>>>     >     >> the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
>>>     >     >> installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength
>>>     use-case
>>>     >     >> (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this
>>>     message, it
>>>     >     >> would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
>>>     >     wavelength at
>>>     >     >> the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
>>>     >     >> assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that
>>>     with the
>>>     >     >> current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it
>>>     for the
>>>     >     case
>>>     >     >> where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed
>>>     yet. If
>>>     >     some
>>>     >     >> implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
>>>     >     >> network know whether the ingress-client has already
>>>     installed this
>>>     >     >> label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
>>>     >     identified by
>>>     >     >> the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg.
>>>     This
>>>     >     draft
>>>     >     >> does propose 2 other mechanisms:
>>>     >     >> - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in
>>>     the PATH
>>>     >     >> - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
>>>     >     >> If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
>>>     >     indications,
>>>     >     >> it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios -
>>>     after the
>>>     >     >> network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
>>>     >     allowed
>>>     >     >> to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I
>>>     don't
>>>     >     >> understand how adding two other mechanisms for
>>>     Bidirectional LSP
>>>     >     setup
>>>     >     >> translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
>>>     >     >> Implementations that can support these extensions can.
>>>     Others can
>>>     >     >> still be happy with their "running code".
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> Regards,
>>>     >     >> -Pavan
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger
>>>     <lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>>>     >     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>
>>>
>>>     >     >> <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>
>>>     <mailto:lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>>> wrote:
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     John, (authors)
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the
>>>     specific
>>>     >     >>     limitations the draft is focusing on.
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
>>>     >     expected
>>>     >     >>     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do
>>>     need to be
>>>     >     >>careful
>>>     >     >>     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving
>>>     away from
>>>     >     >>the
>>>     >     >>     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
>>>     >     indicates
>>>     >     >>a
>>>     >     >>     bidirectional LSP.)
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the
>>>     draft is
>>>     >     >>trying
>>>     >     >>     to address is the inability to support downstream
>>>     selection of
>>>     >     >>     upstream
>>>     >     >>     labels?
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric
>>>     label
>>>     >     value
>>>     >     >>     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
>>>     >     included for
>>>     >     >>     completeness?
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     Are there other requirements / limitations you are
>>>     trying to
>>>     >     >>address?
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     Lou
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
>>>     >     >>     > Zafar,
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     > Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
>>>     >     and your
>>>     >     >>     > response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm
>>>     happy for
>>>     >     >>     you but
>>>     >     >>     > unimpressed.
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     > John
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     > Sent from my iPhone
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     > On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
>>>     >     <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com> <mailto:zali@cisco.com
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>>     >     >>     > <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>> wrote:
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     >> Igor, John-
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> From: "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>>>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
>>>     >     >>     >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>>>     >     >>     "jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>>>     >     >>     <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> Subject: RE: Comments about
>>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>>>     protocol
>>>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>>>     >     of the
>>>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>>>     debating
>>>     >     about a
>>>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>>>     procedure
>>>     >     that
>>>     >     >>is
>>>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> IB>> The way I interpret this discussion is
>>>     something like
>>>     >     this:
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> John: I believe that white is a lighter color than
>>>     black.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
>>>     >     pallet.
>>>     >     >>     >> Many mature applications successfully use black for
>>>     their
>>>     >     various
>>>     >     >>     >> purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
>>>     >     pretty
>>>     >     >>     >> much everything¡­.. So, it is not clear which color
>>>     is lighter,
>>>     >     >>and
>>>     >     >>     >> why do we need other colors at all. :=)
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
>>>     >     >>constructive
>>>     >     >>     >> technical arguments.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Igor
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and John:
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> This is really funny. This is the first time I have
>>>     heard that
>>>     >     >>     running
>>>     >     >>     >> code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
>>>     >     >>     running code
>>>     >     >>     >> is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
>>>     >     >>     constructive
>>>     >     >>     >> technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in
>>>     running code
>>>     >     >>(See
>>>     >     >>     >> your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
>>>     >     upstream and
>>>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are different. When
>>>     upstream and
>>>     >     >>     >> downstream alien wavelength are same, use of
>>>     acceptable label
>>>     >     >>     set and
>>>     >     >>     >> label set objects constitute the running code.
>>>     However, your
>>>     >     >>draft
>>>     >     >>     >> neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
>>>     >     mention
>>>     >     >>or
>>>     >     >>     >> cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Regards¡­Zafar
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>]
>>>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
>>>     >     >>     >> *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
>>>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* Re: Comments about
>>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Hi John:
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Please see in-line.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> *From: *"jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net> <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>"
>>>     >     >>     >> <jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>
>>>     <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net <mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
>>>     >     >>     >> *To: *zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>
>>>     <mailto:zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>>>>,
>>>     >     >>     >> "IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>"
>>>     >     >>     >> <IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Cc: *"ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>" <ccamp@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Subject: *RE: Comments about
>>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Zafar,
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> That because this already defined method has the
>>>     following
>>>     >     >>issues:
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
>>>     protocol
>>>     >     >>     >> operation is not good design practice.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
>>>     >     of the
>>>     >     >>     >> RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
>>>     debating
>>>     >     about a
>>>     >     >>     >> new procedure being proposed but talking about a
>>>     procedure
>>>     >     that
>>>     >     >>is
>>>     >     >>     >> already implemented and deployed.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence
>>>     is not
>>>     >     >>     >> guaranteed
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
>>>     >     please
>>>     >     >>     >> note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are
>>>     designed using
>>>     >     >>     >> optional objects.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> 3) The information it provides may be out of date by
>>>     the time
>>>     >     >>     >> the LSP is re-signaled.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
>>>     acceptable
>>>     >     >>     >> label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
>>>     information
>>>     >     >>     >> provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
>>>     >     >>     >> re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
>>>     >     the label
>>>     >     >>     >> for the re-signaling time.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is
>>>     generated hop by
>>>     >     >>     >> hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the
>>>     entire
>>>     >     >>     >> path. This means that its use to determine a valid
>>>     wavelength
>>>     >     >>     >> would require a potentially unbounded number of
>>>     crankbacks,
>>>     >     >>     >> both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
>>>     >     >>     >> wavelength could be found.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
>>>     >     draft, the
>>>     >     >>     >> acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
>>>     >     UNI-C and
>>>     >     >>     >> UNI-N node.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Yours Irrespectively,
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> John
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>> <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org>>>]
>>>     >     >>     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
>>>     >     >>     >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
>>>     >     >>     >> *To:* IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>> <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com
>>>     <mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Cc:* ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>>>
>>>     >     >>     >> *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
>>>     >     >>     >> draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Hi Igor and co-authors-
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the
>>>     case where
>>>     >     >>     >> upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
>>>     >     >>     >> node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label
>>>     object is
>>>     >     >>     >> received, the receiver first verifies that the
>>>     upstream label
>>>     >     >>     >> is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the
>>>     receiver
>>>     >     >>     >> /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
>>>     >     >>     >> problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The
>>>     generated
>>>     >     >>     >> PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
>>>     Object/".
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in
>>>     PathErr and
>>>     >     >>     >> ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> However, your draft does not mention or cover this
>>>     already
>>>     >     >>     >> defined method.
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Thanks
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >> Regards ¡­ Zafar
>>>     >     >>     >>
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>     > _______________________________________________
>>>     >     >>     > CCAMP mailing list
>>>     >     >>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
>>>
>>>     >     >>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >     >>     >
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>     _______________________________________________
>>>     >     >>     CCAMP mailing list
>>>
>>>     >     >>     CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>
>>>     >     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>>
>>>     >     >>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >>
>>>     >     >> _______________________________________________
>>>     >     >> CCAMP mailing list
>>>     >     >> CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >     >
>>>     >     >_______________________________________________
>>>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>>>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >     >_______________________________________________
>>>     >     >CCAMP mailing list
>>>     >     >CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org> <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org
>>>     <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>>
>>>     >     >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > _______________________________________________
>>>     > CCAMP mailing list
>>>     > CCAMP@ietf.org <mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
>>>     > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>     >
>>>
>>>  
>>>
> 

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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 23:20:56 +0000
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Subject: [CCAMP] Document Action: 'Evaluation of existing GMPLS encoding against	G.709v3 Optical Transport Networks (OTN)' to Informational RFC	(draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Evaluation of existing GMPLS encoding against G.709v3 Optical
   Transport Networks (OTN)'
  (draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model-13.txt) as Informational RFC

This document is the product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane
Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-g709-info-model/




Technical Summary

   This document provides an evaluation of exiting GMPLS signaling
   and routing protocols against Optical Transport Networks (OTN)
   specified in ITU-T Recommendation G.709 as published in 2012. A
   previous version of G.709 was supported by GMPLS signaling per
   RFC4328.  

   This document is one of four informational and standards track 
   documents going through the publication process as a set.
   Reviewers of this document are particularly advised to look at 
   draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework as well.

Working Group Summary

   Nothing of note for this document.

Document Quality

   This document provides background and an approach to extending
   exiting RFCs for which there are implementations, but does not
   itself define any protocol mechanisms.  The existing RFCs include
   RFC3471, RFC3473, RFC4202, RFC4203, RFC4204, RFC4328, 
   RFC4655.

Personnel
 
   Lou Berger is the Document Shepherd? 
   Adrian Farrel is the Responsible Area Director?

From IBryskin@advaoptical.com  Tue Nov  5 17:52:51 2013
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 02:54:39 +0100
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To: Igor Bryskin <IBryskin@advaoptical.com>, Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vishnupavan@gmail.com>
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    <font face="Tahoma">Hi Pavan and Igor,<br>
      <br>
      I share Fatai's concerns - as far as transport networks are
      concerned, LSPs are bidirectional in nature<br>
      and the labels are symmetric. It would be nice if you could
      elaborate a bit more and provide some<br>
      <b>practical </b>application examples that justify the
      requirement of asymmetric labels.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Dieter<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06.11.2013 00:20, Fatai Zhang wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA89DBD@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi,

For the transport/GMPLS networks, I would repeat the bidirectional LSPs are always symmetric in practice, so there are no cases for some nodes to assign asymmetric labels.

However, I would agree on the requirements if we just do some research in theory. 

Thanks

Fatai


________________________________________
·¢¼þÈË: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] ´ú±í Lou Berger [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a>]
·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2013Äê11ÔÂ6ÈÕ 6:47
ÊÕ¼þÈË: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
³­ËÍ: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00

Igor,

On 11/5/2013 11:42 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Lou,
In majority of the cases UNI-Cs would want to have their G-LSPs label-symmetrical.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
Every time you say UNI-C I've been assuming you mean ingress, is this
correct?

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">If the label symmetricity is left to the local policy of the network,
the latter may decide (e.g. because of existing unidirectional LSPs
set up for other users or P2MP LSPs) to assign different labels for
US and DS unless there is an explicit constraint signaled from the
UNI-C to make symmetrical or fail the setup.

</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
So you believe there is a use case where some nodes will assign
asymmetric labels for the same service, and other nodes along the LSP
only support symmetric labels.  Right?

Lou

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00

Great. So this is a nice short list.  I think the utility of requirements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both symmetric and asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber rings.  While I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I  (with no hat on) accept the use case.

I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to "put label symmetry into the protocol" (Juilien's question)

Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?

Thanks,
Lou

On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
</pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">Lou,

</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">    1. Downstream selection of the upstream label


    2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
       should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream
label

    3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
       is selecting the label.

    4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
       you really care about it.

</pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM
To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about
draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00

Igor,
     So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when the upstream node selects the label, right?
</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">    3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
       is selecting the label.
</pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">
Lou

On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:
</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">I would add:

5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.



*From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On
Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM
*To:* Lou Berger
*Cc:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
*Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´: Comments about
draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00



Lou,



Yes, your summarized points are correct.



Thanks,

-Pavan.



On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt; wrote:

Pavan,
        I think this is helpful in trying to understand what the
goals are of the draft.  Again, I'll resist arguing about the
mechanisms that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements
need to be addressed.
(While the mechanism details, i.e., the "how", are certainly
important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of
"what" you'd like to accomplish.)



VPB: Agree.




    So the list of requirements is now the addition of:
    1. Downstream selection of the upstream label


    2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set of labels that
       should be used in the downstream nodes' choice of upstream
label

    3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream node
       is selecting the label.

    4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requirement, nor do
       you really care about it.

    Is this correct?

    Thanks,
    Lou


    On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
    &gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are being raised. I'll try
    and see
    &gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q&amp;A.
    &gt;
    &gt; A. "Label Symmetricity":
    &gt;
    &gt; (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice? Are there any
    asymmetric
    &gt; label scenarios at all?
    &gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric in practice. The draft
    &gt; explicitly states that. I haven't come across any single
    &gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are used. As Igor pointed out
    &gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory some single-fiber
    &gt; configurations where the same wavelength cannot be used for both
    &gt; directions. But I don't know if anyone really uses that.
    &gt;
    &gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request from the ingress to make
    &gt; them symmetric at each hop?
    &gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473 allows "Label
    &gt; Asymmetricity" and and as a result symmetricity cannot be assumed by
    &gt; default. There is currently no way of mandating symmetricity at
    each hop
    &gt; along the path of the LSP.
    &gt;
    &gt; (3) Say, we all agree that "Symmetricity" is always guaranteed
    (maybe we
    &gt; even state it explicitly in some standard document). Would you then be
    &gt; able to use existing extensions and address the "alien-wavelength"
    setup
    &gt; use-case?
    &gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall short. What does the
    &gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when it has no knowledge on
    &gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensions, the UPSTREAM_LABEL
    &gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label before sending the PATH
    out. We
    &gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mechanism to tell the
    network
    &gt; - "please ignore what I'm filling in the UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the
    &gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use what is returned in the
    &gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions."
    &gt;
    &gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local choice. Why should the
    &gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at some downstream hop?
    &gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to request the downstream
    node
    &gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All that the draft is proposing
    &gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that these two labels need to be
    &gt; symmetric.
    &gt;
    &gt; B. "Label Asymmetricity"
    &gt;
    &gt; (4) Have the "Label Asymmetricity" extensions been included just for
    &gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we there is no need for
    &gt; asymmetric labels?
    &gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensions are included in the
    &gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity. We don't need to
    discuss
    &gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in some standard document)
    that
    &gt; "labels are always symmetric" and that all previous extensions defined
    &gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.
    &gt;
    &gt; C. "Use-Case"
    &gt;
    &gt; (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why do we need the network to
    &gt; assign an upstream label?
    &gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusses a specific use-case.
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt; Regards,
    &gt; -Pavan
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zali) &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>

    &gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:
    &gt;
    &gt;     Hi-
    &gt;
    &gt;     Furthermore, when (alien) wavelength is same in forward and
    reverse
    &gt;     direction, we can use label set along with acceptable label
    set - as
    &gt;     defined in RFC3473. The only use case this draft addresses is
    when alien
    &gt;     wavelength are asymmetrical in forward and reverse direction.
    I am not
    &gt;     aware of any example of such use case.
    &gt;
    &gt;     Thanks
    &gt;
    &gt;     Regards ¡­ Zafar
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt;     -----Original Message-----

    &gt;     From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 7:38 PM

    &gt;     To: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;"
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu
    &gt;     Pavan

    &gt;     Beeram &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     Cc: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;" &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     Subject: [CCAMP] ´ð¸´:  Comments
    &gt;     about   draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Hi Pavan,
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Understood what you said in principle, but could you give an
    example to
    &gt;     &gt;show there are asymmertric labels (wavelength?) for the
    bidirectiaonal
    &gt;     &gt;LSPs (especiall for the transport networks) in the real
    &gt;     implementations?
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt;==========================================================================
    &gt;     &gt;======================================
    &gt;     &gt;In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on
    &gt;     each hop
    &gt;     &gt;along the path of the LSP. But this is something that cannot
    be assumed
    &gt;     &gt;by default.
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Thanks
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Fatai
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;________________________________________

    &gt;     &gt;·¢¼þÈË: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;] ´ú
    ±í Julien
    &gt;     Meuric
    &gt;     &gt;[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;]

    &gt;     &gt;·¢ËÍÊ±¼ä: 2013Äê11ÔÂ5ÈÕ 10:35
    &gt;     &gt;ÊÕ¼þÈË: Vishnu Pavan Beeram

    &gt;     &gt;³­ËÍ: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about
    &gt;     &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Hi Pavan.
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Even though I agree with your unassigned Upstream_Label
    requirement, I
    &gt;     &gt;need to disagree with the data plane rationale you mention.
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;The Upstream_Label refers to the client's optical receiver:
    you don't
    &gt;     &gt;need to tune a laser on the receiver side. The data
    transmission could
    &gt;     &gt;even work without sending the actual Upstream_Label in
    RSVP-TE messages
    &gt;     &gt;to the client: I am not really a fan of that approach, but
    that would
    &gt;     &gt;fit cases where optical policies are left to the optical
    network...
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Moreover, I have doubts on putting label symmetry within the
    protocol.
    &gt;     &gt;This is more an allocation policy in the hands of allocating
    nodes:
    &gt;     &gt;requesting an allocation mode from an ingress node would mean
    doing the
    &gt;     &gt;server job, I am not sure it is desirable.
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;Julien
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:49, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Lou,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; The extensions defined in this draft do not impose any
    backwards
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; compatibility issues. The intent is definitely not to
    change the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; fundamental aspects of the protocol. As you would agree, it
    is not
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; mandatory to try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473
    to all and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; sundry. New extensions are being introduced only where the
    existing
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; extensions fall short. Let me walk through the requirements
    that we
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; are looking at and that would hopefully explain the limitations
    &gt;     of the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; existing extensions.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Base requirement :
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Need a mechanism for a given node to say that it cannot
    assign an
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; upstream-label on its own and that it needs the network (read
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; downstream) to assign it instead.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Corollary requirements :
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
    network-assigned
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; upstream label without having to specify any inputs on what
    label
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; needs to get picked.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mechanism for a given node to ask for a
    network-assigned
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; upstream label and also specify some choices for the label
    that needs
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; to get picked.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; 3. If labels are symmetric, a given node can simply use the
    label
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; returned in the LABEL object of the RESV message for both
    directions.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; In practice, most bidirectional LSPs have label
    symmetricity on each
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; hop along the path of the LSP. But this is something that
    cannot be
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; assumed by default. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism
    &gt;     for the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; ingress to request "label symmetricity" at each hop along
    the path of
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; the LSP.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Can you somehow fit a solution using the current extensions
    and cater
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; to the above requirements?
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; We believe the answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list
    &gt;     was to
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; set a random UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing
    expedition.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; The idea was that the downstream node would then respond with a
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carrying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have
    &gt;     provided
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; a list of reasons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me
    add another
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; point -
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL
    object in
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; the PATH, it means that the upstream node MUST have already
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; installed/programmed this label. In the alien wavelength
    use-case
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; (discussed in the draft), when the network receives this
    message, it
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; would mean that the laser has already been tuned to this
    &gt;     wavelength at
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; the client. That beats the very purpose of requesting a network
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; assigned upstream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that
    with the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; current semantics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it
    for the
    &gt;     case
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; where the upstream-label hasn't been installed/programmed
    yet. If
    &gt;     some
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; implementation decides to ignore these semantics, how would the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; network know whether the ingress-client has already
    installed this
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; label or not (whether the laser is already tuned or not).
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; RFC3473 states that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is
    &gt;     identified by
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; the presence of an "UPSTREAM_LABEL" object in the PATH msg.
    This
    &gt;     draft
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; does propose 2 other mechanisms:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; - The presence of the "Label Symmetricity Required" Flag in
    the PATH
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; - The presence of the "UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET" object in the PATH
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; If a downstream node does not understand any of the above
    &gt;     indications,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; it would reject the setup request. In both scenarios -
    after the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; network has assigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is
    &gt;     allowed
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; to start signaling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I
    don't
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; understand how adding two other mechanisms for
    Bidirectional LSP
    &gt;     setup
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; translates to changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Implementations that can support these extensions can.
    Others can
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; still be happy with their "running code".
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; Regards,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; -Pavan
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     John, (authors)
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the
    specific
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     limitations the draft is focusing on.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on
    &gt;     expected
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do
    need to be
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;careful
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving
    away from
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     use of the upstream label object as the basic object that
    &gt;     indicates
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;a
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     bidirectional LSP.)
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the
    draft is
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;trying
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     to address is the inability to support downstream
    selection of
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     upstream
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     labels?
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric
    label
    &gt;     value
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just
    &gt;     included for
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     completeness?
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     Are there other requirements / limitations you are
    trying to
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;address?
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     Lou
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; Zafar,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473
    &gt;     and your
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm
    happy for
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     you but
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; unimpressed.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; John
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; Sent from my iPhone
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "Zafar Ali (zali)"
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Igor, John-
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; From: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;"
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;"
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Cc: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;" &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Zafar,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
    protocol
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
    &gt;     of the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
    debating
    &gt;     about a
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a
    procedure
    &gt;     that
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;is
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is
    something like
    &gt;     this:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter color than
    black.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the color
    &gt;     pallet.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use black for
    their
    &gt;     various
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, use black for
    &gt;     pretty
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; much everything¡­.. So, it is not clear which color
    is lighter,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=)
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;constructive
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; technical arguments.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Igor
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first time I have
    heard that
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     running
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     running code
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it "not
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     constructive
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; technical arguments"! Last I heard we believed in
    running code
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;(See
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where
    &gt;     upstream and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. When
    upstream and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use of
    acceptable label
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     set and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running code.
    However, your
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;draft
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement nor makes any
    &gt;     mention
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;or
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Thanks
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Regards¡­Zafar
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Hi John:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Thanks
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Regards ¡­ Zafar
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *From: *"<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;"
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;"
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Cc: *"<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;" &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Zafar,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method has the
    following
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;issues:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal
    protocol
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral part
    &gt;     of the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not
    debating
    &gt;     about a
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a
    procedure
    &gt;     that
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;is
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence
    is not
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; guaranteed
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Also
    &gt;     please
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are
    designed using
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; optional objects.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out of date by
    the time
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sending the
    acceptable
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarantee that
    information
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache
    &gt;     the label
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is
    generated hop by
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the
    entire
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine a valid
    wavelength
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded number of
    crankbacks,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such a
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this
    &gt;     draft, the
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restricted to the
    &gt;     UNI-C and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; John
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the
    case where
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; "/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label
    object is
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that the
    upstream label
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the
    receiver
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a "Routing
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value" indication. The
    generated
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set
    Object/".
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in
    PathErr and
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cover this
    already
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; defined method.
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Thanks
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt; Regards ¡­ Zafar
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; _______________________________________________
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; CCAMP mailing list
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     _______________________________________________
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     CCAMP mailing list

    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>

    &gt;     &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;     <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing list
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;     &gt;
    &gt;     &gt;_______________________________________________
    &gt;     &gt;CCAMP mailing list
    &gt;     &gt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;     &gt;_______________________________________________
    &gt;     &gt;CCAMP mailing list
    &gt;     &gt;<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;
    &gt;     &gt;<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt;
    &gt; _______________________________________________
    &gt; CCAMP mailing list
    &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>
    &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
    &gt;



</pre>
          </blockquote>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap="">
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Architecturally it makes =
sense to cover this case.&nbsp; In my past experience, I have worked on ROA=
DM system which mandated asymmetric add/drop!! &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I can think of multi-fail=
ure scenario (unidirectional) which could take advantage of available spect=
rum in different fibers to complete E2E path setup. &nbsp;As
 long as hardware is capable of supporting this I do not see a reason for C=
P to block it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thx<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Rajan<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:windowtext"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf=
.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dieter Beller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;color:windowtext">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">:
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">: Comments about draft-beeram-=
ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Pavan and Igor,<br>
<br>
I share Fatai's concerns - as far as transport networks are concerned, LSPs=
 are bidirectional in nature<br>
and the labels are symmetric. It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit=
 more and provide some<br>
<b>practical </b>application examples that justify the requirement of asymm=
etric labels.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dieter<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 06.11.2013 00:20, Fatai Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>For the transport/GMPLS networks, I would repeat the bidirectional LSP=
s are always symmetric in practice, so there are no cases for some nodes to=
 assign asymmetric labels.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>However, I would agree on the requirements if we just do some research=
 in theory. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Fatai<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=
=ED</span> Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net=
</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>11<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 6:47<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu P=
avan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigne=
d-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Igor,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 11:42 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>In majority of the cases UNI-Cs would want to have their G-LSPs label-=
symmetrical.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Every time you say UNI-C I've been assuming you mean ingress, is this<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>correct?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>If the label symmetricity is left to the local policy of the network,<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>the latter may decide (e.g. because of existing unidirectional LSPs<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>set up for other users or P2MP LSPs) to assign different labels for<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>US and DS unless there is an explicit constraint signaled from the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>UNI-C to make symmetrical or fail the setup.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>So you believe there is a use case where some nodes will assign<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>asymmetric labels for the same service, and other nodes along the LSP<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>only support symmetric labels.&nbsp; Right?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Igor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@l=
abn.net</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:21 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Great. So this is a nice short list.&nbsp; I think the utility of requ=
irements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both symmetric and =
asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber rings.&nbsp; While=
 I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I&nbsp; (with no hat on) acc=
ept the use case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to &quot;put label s=
ymmetry into the protocol&quot; (Juilien's question)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@l=
abn.net</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Igor,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when=
 the upstream node selects the label, right?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>I would add:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>*From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.or=
g">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*To:* Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>*Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comme=
nts about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Yes, your summarized points are correct.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-Pavan.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lber=
ger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a=
>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Pavan,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think this is helpful in =
trying to understand what the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>goals are of the draft.&nbsp; Again, I'll resist arguing about the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>mechanisms that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>need to be addressed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(While the mechanism details, i.e., the &quot;how&quot;, are certainly=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&quot;what&quot; you'd like to accomplish.)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>VPB: Agree.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So the list of requirements is now the addition of:=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is this correct?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are bein=
g raised. I'll try<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and see<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q=
&amp;A.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice=
? Are there any<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; asymmetric<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; label scenarios at all?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric i=
n practice. The draft<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; explicitly states that. I haven't come across =
any single<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are u=
sed. As Igor pointed out<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory =
some single-fiber<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; configurations where the same wavelength canno=
t be used for both<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; directions. But I don't know if anyone really =
uses that.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request f=
rom the ingress to make<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; them symmetric at each hop?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473=
 allows &quot;Label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Asymmetricity&quot; and and as a result symmet=
ricity cannot be assumed by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; default. There is currently no way of mandatin=
g symmetricity at<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; along the path of the LSP.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&=
quot; is always guaranteed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (maybe we<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; even state it explicitly in some standard docu=
ment). Would you then be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; able to use existing extensions and address th=
e &quot;alien-wavelength&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; use-case?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall sh=
ort. What does the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when=
 it has no knowledge on<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensio=
ns, the UPSTREAM_LABEL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label befor=
e sending the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; out. We<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mec=
hanism to tell the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; - &quot;please ignore what I'm filling in the =
UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use=
 what is returned in the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions.&quot;<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local c=
hoice. Why should the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at so=
me downstream hop?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to re=
quest the downstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All tha=
t the draft is proposing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that the=
se two labels need to be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; symmetric.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; e=
xtensions been included just for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we=
 there is no need for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; asymmetric labels?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensi=
ons are included in the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity.=
 We don't need to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; discuss<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in som=
e standard document)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &quot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and th=
at all previous extensions defined<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why d=
o we need the network to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; assign an upstream label?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusse=
s a specific use-case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; -Pavan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zal=
i) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, when (ali=
en) wavelength is same in forward and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reverse<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; direction, we can use =
label set along with acceptable label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; set - as<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; defined in RFC3473. Th=
e only use case this draft addresses is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; when alien<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength are asymmet=
rical in forward and reverse direction.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aware of any example o=
f such use case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-=
----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Fatai Zhang &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a><o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com"=
>mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Date: Monday, November=
 4, 2013 7:38 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@or=
ange.com">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ju=
lien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pavan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:v=
ishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">mailto=
:vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mai=
lto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">=
&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: [CCAMP] <span=
 lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>:&nbsp; Comments<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about&nbsp;&nbsp; draf=
t-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan,<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Understood what yo=
u said in principle, but could you give an<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; example to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;show there are asy=
mmertric labels (wavelength?) for the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bidirectiaonal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;LSPs (especiall fo=
r the transport networks) in the real<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implementations?<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;In practice, most =
bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;along the path of =
the LSP. But this is something that cannot<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; be assumed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;by default.<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Fatai<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;=
mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B1=ED</span> Julien<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Meuric<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;[<a href=3D"mailto=
:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:j=
ulien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a><o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@o=
range.com&gt;</a>&gt;]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>1=
1<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 10:3=
5<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a=
> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp=
-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan.<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Even though I agre=
e with your unassigned Upstream_Label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement, I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to disagree w=
ith the data plane rationale you mention.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;The Upstream_Label=
 refers to the client's optical receiver:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you don't<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to tune a las=
er on the receiver side. The data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; transmission could<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;even work without =
sending the actual Upstream_Label in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RSVP-TE messages<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;to the client: I a=
m not really a fan of that approach, but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that would<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;fit cases where op=
tical policies are left to the optical<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;network...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Moreover, I have d=
oubts on putting label symmetry within the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;This is more an al=
location policy in the hands of allocating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;requesting an allo=
cation mode from an ingress node would mean<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; doing the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;server job, I am n=
ot sure it is desirable.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Julien<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:4=
9, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The extension=
s defined in this draft do not impose any<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; backwards<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; compatibility=
 issues. The intent is definitely not to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; change the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; fundamental a=
spects of the protocol. As you would agree, it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mandatory to =
try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to all and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; sundry. New e=
xtensions are being introduced only where the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; existing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; extensions fa=
ll short. Let me walk through the requirements<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that we<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; are looking a=
t and that would hopefully explain the limitations<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; existing exte=
nsions.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Base requirem=
ent :<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Need a mechan=
ism for a given node to say that it cannot<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; assign an<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream-labe=
l on its own and that it needs the network (read<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream) t=
o assign it instead.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Corollary req=
uirements :<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l without having to specify any inputs on what<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; needs to get =
picked.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l and also specify some choices for the label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that needs<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to get picked=
.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3. If labels =
are symmetric, a given node can simply use the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; returned in t=
he LABEL object of the RESV message for both<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; directions.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In practice, =
most bidirectional LSPs have label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; symmetricity on each<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop along the=
 path of the LSP. But this is something that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cannot be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assumed by de=
fault. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ingress to re=
quest &quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop along<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the path of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP.<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Can you someh=
ow fit a solution using the current extensions<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and cater<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to the above =
requirements?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; We believe th=
e answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; was to<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; set a random =
UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expedition.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The idea was =
that the downstream node would then respond with a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carr=
ying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; provided<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a list of rea=
sons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add another<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; point -<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3=
473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the PATH, it =
means that the upstream node MUST have already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; installed/pro=
grammed this label. In the alien wavelength<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; use-case<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; (discussed in=
 the draft), when the network receives this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; message, it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would mean th=
at the laser has already been tuned to this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength at<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the client. T=
hat beats the very purpose of requesting a network<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assigned upst=
ream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; current seman=
tics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; case<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; where the ups=
tream-label hasn't been installed/programmed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; yet. If<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; some<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; implementatio=
n decides to ignore these semantics, how would the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network know =
whether the ingress-client has already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; installed this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label or not =
(whether the laser is already tuned or not).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RFC3473 state=
s that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; identified by<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the presence =
of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the PATH msg.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; does propose =
2 other mechanisms:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If a downstre=
am node does not understand any of the above<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indications,<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; it would reje=
ct the setup request. In both scenarios -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; after the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network has a=
ssigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to start sign=
aling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; don't<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; understand ho=
w adding two other mechanisms for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bidirectional LSP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; translates to=
 changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Implementatio=
ns that can support these extensions can.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Others can<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; still be happ=
y with their &quot;running code&quot;.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; -Pavan<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4=
, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@lab=
n.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&g=
t;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@lab=
n.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:=
lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lber=
ger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@lab=
n.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; John, (authors)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; specific<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing on.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expected<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; need to be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;careful<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; away from<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;the<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;use of the upstream label object as the basic object that<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indicates<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;a<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;trying<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; to address is the inability to support downstream<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; selection of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; labels?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; value<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; &nbsp;allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; included for<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; completeness?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Are there other requirements / limitations you are<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trying to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;address?<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and your<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; happy for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; you but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; John<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;ma=
ilto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:za=
li@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com=
</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com"=
>IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cis=
co.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</=
a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake=
@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake=
@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;procedure<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; something like<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter color than<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; black.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the colo=
r<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pallet.<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use black for<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; their<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; various<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, use black fo=
r<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pretty<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is lighter,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;and<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;constructive<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first time I have<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; heard that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when th=
e<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running code<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &qu=
ot;not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; constructive<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we believed in<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; running code<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;(See<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. When<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use of<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; set and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running code.<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, your<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;draft<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement nor makes an=
y<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mention<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;or<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards=A1=ADZafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org<=
/a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdr=
ake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@iet=
f.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</=
a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method has the<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; following<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;issues:<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; procedure<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Als=
o<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; designed using<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out of date by<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the time<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sending the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarantee that<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; information<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the label<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated hop by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entire<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine a valid<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded number of<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crankbacks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such =
a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft, the<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restricted to the=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNI-C and<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org<=
/a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; case where<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that the<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; receiver<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value&quot; indication. The<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Object/&quot;.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PathErr and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cover this<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"=
mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________=
__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing=
 list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&=
lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CC=
AMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CC=
AMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ______________________________________________=
_<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.o=
rg</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dieter and Fatai,<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We are talking about modi=
fying RFC3473, which never says that all bi-directional LSPs are symmetrica=
l. &nbsp;If there is no case for asymmetrical G-LSPs, then there
 is no need for Upstream Label object except for indicating that this is a =
bi-directional G-LSP. &nbsp;&nbsp;It also means that the label negotiated f=
or the DS direction must be automatically used as US label, which is not th=
e behavior of current implementations. Are
 you suggesting that we should just explicitly deprecate asymmetrical LSPs?=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Igor
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:windowtext"> Dieter Beller [mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucen=
t.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; Lou Berger; ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;color:windowtext">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">:
</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;color:windowtext">=B4=
=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">: Comments about draft-beeram-=
ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Pavan and Igor,<br>
<br>
I share Fatai's concerns - as far as transport networks are concerned, LSPs=
 are bidirectional in nature<br>
and the labels are symmetric. It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit=
 more and provide some<br>
<b>practical </b>application examples that justify the requirement of asymm=
etric labels.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dieter<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 06.11.2013 00:20, Fatai Zhang wrote:<o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>For the transport/GMPLS networks, I would repeat the bidirectional LSP=
s are always symmetric in practice, so there are no cases for some nodes to=
 assign asymmetric labels.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>However, I would agree on the requirements if we just do some research=
 in theory. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Fatai<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=
=ED</span> Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net=
</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>11<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 6:47<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu P=
avan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigne=
d-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Igor,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 11:42 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>In majority of the cases UNI-Cs would want to have their G-LSPs label-=
symmetrical.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Every time you say UNI-C I've been assuming you mean ingress, is this<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>correct?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>If the label symmetricity is left to the local policy of the network,<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>the latter may decide (e.g. because of existing unidirectional LSPs<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>set up for other users or P2MP LSPs) to assign different labels for<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>US and DS unless there is an explicit constraint signaled from the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>UNI-C to make symmetrical or fail the setup.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>So you believe there is a use case where some nodes will assign<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>asymmetric labels for the same service, and other nodes along the LSP<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>only support symmetric labels.&nbsp; Right?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Igor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@l=
abn.net</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:21 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Great. So this is a nice short list.&nbsp; I think the utility of requ=
irements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both symmetric and =
asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber rings.&nbsp; While=
 I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I&nbsp; (with no hat on) acc=
ept the use case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to &quot;put label s=
ymmetry into the protocol&quot; (Juilien's question)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@l=
abn.net</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Igor,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when=
 the upstream node selects the label, right?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>I would add:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>*From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.or=
g">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*To:* Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>*Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comme=
nts about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Lou,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Yes, your summarized points are correct.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>-Pavan.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lber=
ger@labn.net">lberger@labn.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a=
>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Pavan,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think this is helpful in =
trying to understand what the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>goals are of the draft.&nbsp; Again, I'll resist arguing about the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>mechanisms that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>need to be addressed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(While the mechanism details, i.e., the &quot;how&quot;, are certainly=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&quot;what&quot; you'd like to accomplish.)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>VPB: Agree.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So the list of requirements is now the addition of:=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is this correct?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are bein=
g raised. I'll try<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and see<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q=
&amp;A.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice=
? Are there any<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; asymmetric<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; label scenarios at all?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric i=
n practice. The draft<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; explicitly states that. I haven't come across =
any single<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are u=
sed. As Igor pointed out<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory =
some single-fiber<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; configurations where the same wavelength canno=
t be used for both<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; directions. But I don't know if anyone really =
uses that.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request f=
rom the ingress to make<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; them symmetric at each hop?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473=
 allows &quot;Label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Asymmetricity&quot; and and as a result symmet=
ricity cannot be assumed by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; default. There is currently no way of mandatin=
g symmetricity at<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; along the path of the LSP.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&=
quot; is always guaranteed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (maybe we<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; even state it explicitly in some standard docu=
ment). Would you then be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; able to use existing extensions and address th=
e &quot;alien-wavelength&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; use-case?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall sh=
ort. What does the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when=
 it has no knowledge on<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensio=
ns, the UPSTREAM_LABEL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label befor=
e sending the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; out. We<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mec=
hanism to tell the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; - &quot;please ignore what I'm filling in the =
UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use=
 what is returned in the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions.&quot;<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local c=
hoice. Why should the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at so=
me downstream hop?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to re=
quest the downstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; node<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All tha=
t the draft is proposing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that the=
se two labels need to be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; symmetric.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; e=
xtensions been included just for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we=
 there is no need for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; asymmetric labels?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensi=
ons are included in the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity.=
 We don't need to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; discuss<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in som=
e standard document)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &quot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and th=
at all previous extensions defined<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why d=
o we need the network to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; assign an upstream label?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusse=
s a specific use-case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; -Pavan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zal=
i) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, when (ali=
en) wavelength is same in forward and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reverse<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; direction, we can use =
label set along with acceptable label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; set - as<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; defined in RFC3473. Th=
e only use case this draft addresses is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; when alien<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength are asymmet=
rical in forward and reverse direction.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aware of any example o=
f such use case.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-=
----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Fatai Zhang &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a><o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com"=
>mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">&lt;mailto=
:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Date: Monday, November=
 4, 2013 7:38 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@or=
ange.com">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ju=
lien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pavan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:v=
ishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">mailto=
:vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com">&lt;mai=
lto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">=
&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: [CCAMP] <span=
 lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>:&nbsp; Comments<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about&nbsp;&nbsp; draf=
t-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan,<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Understood what yo=
u said in principle, but could you give an<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; example to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;show there are asy=
mmertric labels (wavelength?) for the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bidirectiaonal<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;LSPs (especiall fo=
r the transport networks) in the real<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implementations?<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;In practice, most =
bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;along the path of =
the LSP. But this is something that cannot<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; be assumed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;by default.<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Thanks<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Fatai<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.o=
rg">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bou=
nces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;=
mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B1=ED</span> Julien<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Meuric<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;[<a href=3D"mailto=
:julien.meuric@orange.com">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:j=
ulien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a><o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">mai=
lto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@o=
range.com&gt;</a>&gt;]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>1=
1<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 10:3=
5<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Vishnu Pavan Beeram<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a=
> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp=
-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan.<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Even though I agre=
e with your unassigned Upstream_Label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement, I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to disagree w=
ith the data plane rationale you mention.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;The Upstream_Label=
 refers to the client's optical receiver:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you don't<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to tune a las=
er on the receiver side. The data<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; transmission could<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;even work without =
sending the actual Upstream_Label in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RSVP-TE messages<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;to the client: I a=
m not really a fan of that approach, but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that would<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;fit cases where op=
tical policies are left to the optical<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Moreover, I have d=
oubts on putting label symmetry within the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;This is more an al=
location policy in the hands of allocating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;requesting an allo=
cation mode from an ingress node would mean<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; doing the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;server job, I am n=
ot sure it is desirable.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Julien<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:4=
9, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Lou,<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The extension=
s defined in this draft do not impose any<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; backwards<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; compatibility=
 issues. The intent is definitely not to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; change the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; fundamental a=
spects of the protocol. As you would agree, it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mandatory to =
try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to all and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; sundry. New e=
xtensions are being introduced only where the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; existing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; extensions fa=
ll short. Let me walk through the requirements<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that we<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; are looking a=
t and that would hopefully explain the limitations<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt; existing exte=
nsions.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Base requirem=
ent :<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Need a mechan=
ism for a given node to say that it cannot<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; assign an<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream-labe=
l on its own and that it needs the network (read<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream) t=
o assign it instead.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Corollary req=
uirements :<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l without having to specify any inputs on what<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; needs to get =
picked.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l and also specify some choices for the label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that needs<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to get picked=
.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3. If labels =
are symmetric, a given node can simply use the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; returned in t=
he LABEL object of the RESV message for both<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; directions.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In practice, =
most bidirectional LSPs have label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; symmetricity on each<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop along the=
 path of the LSP. But this is something that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cannot be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assumed by de=
fault. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ingress to re=
quest &quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop along<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the path of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP.<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Can you someh=
ow fit a solution using the current extensions<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and cater<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to the above =
requirements?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; We believe th=
e answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; was to<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; set a random =
UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expedition.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The idea was =
that the downstream node would then respond with a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carr=
ying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; provided<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a list of rea=
sons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add another<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; point -<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3=
473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the PATH, it =
means that the upstream node MUST have already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; installed/pro=
grammed this label. In the alien wavelength<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; use-case<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; (discussed in=
 the draft), when the network receives this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; message, it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would mean th=
at the laser has already been tuned to this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength at<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the client. T=
hat beats the very purpose of requesting a network<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assigned upst=
ream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; current seman=
tics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;case<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; where the ups=
tream-label hasn't been installed/programmed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; yet. If<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; some<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; implementatio=
n decides to ignore these semantics, how would the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network know =
whether the ingress-client has already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; installed this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label or not =
(whether the laser is already tuned or not).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RFC3473 state=
s that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; identified by<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the presence =
of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the PATH msg.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; does propose =
2 other mechanisms:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the PATH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If a downstre=
am node does not understand any of the above<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indications,<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; it would reje=
ct the setup request. In both scenarios -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; after the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network has a=
ssigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to start sign=
aling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; don't<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; understand ho=
w adding two other mechanisms for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bidirectional LSP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; translates to=
 changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Implementatio=
ns that can support these extensions can.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Others can<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; still be happ=
y with their &quot;running code&quot;.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; -Pavan<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4=
, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">lberger@lab=
n.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&g=
t;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@lab=
n.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:=
lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">mailto:lber=
ger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;mailto:lberger@lab=
n.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; John, (authors)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; specific<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing on.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expected<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; need to be<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;careful<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; away from<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;the<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; use of the upstream label object as the basic object that<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indicates<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;a<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;trying<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; to address is the inability to support downstream<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; selection of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; upstream<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; labels?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; value<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; included for<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; completeness?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Are there other requirements / limitations you are<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trying to<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;address?<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Lou<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and your<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; happy for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; you but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;ma=
ilto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:za=
li@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com=
</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com"=
>IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cis=
co.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</=
a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;<=
/a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake=
@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake=
@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.=
org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; procedure<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; something like<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter color than<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; black.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the colo=
r<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pallet.<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use black for<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; their<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; various<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, use black fo=
r<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pretty<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is lighter,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;and<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;constructive<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first time I have<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; heard that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when th=
e<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running code<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &qu=
ot;not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; constructive<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we believed in<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; running code<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;(See<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and<o:p></o:p=
></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. When<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use of<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; set and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running code.<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, your<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;draft<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement nor makes an=
y<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mention<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;or<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards=A1=ADZafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@c=
isco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org<=
/a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdr=
ake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:j=
drake@juniper.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.n=
et&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@=
juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">mailto:jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">&lt;mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">mailto:zali@c=
isco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBryski=
n@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@adv=
aoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@iet=
f.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</=
a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.or=
g</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a=
><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method has the<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; following<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;issues:<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a<o:p></o:p></pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; procedure<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Als=
o<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; designed using<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out of date by<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the time<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sending the<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarantee that<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; information<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the label<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is<o:p></o:p>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated hop by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entire<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine a valid<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded number of<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crankbacks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such =
a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft, the<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restricted to the=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNI-C and<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp=
-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ie=
tf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">IBrys=
kin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@=
advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com">&lt;mai=
lto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org<=
/a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">mailto:ccamp@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<o=
:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the<o:p></=
o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; case where<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:<o:p></o:p></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that the<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream label<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; receiver<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing<o:=
p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value&quot; indication. The<=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Object/&quot;.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PathErr and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cover this<o:p>=
</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; already<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"=
mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<o:p></o:p></p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________=
__________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing=
 list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&=
lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt=
;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CC=
AMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">mailto:CC=
AMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@=
ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo=
/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ______________________________________________=
_<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.o=
rg</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a><=
o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
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le=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">
<p>Hi Igor,</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Good point. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I am not sure if we need to deprecate Upstream Label object or just leav=
e it (even though it might not useful), but I&nbsp; don't think it is&nbsp;=
a good idea&nbsp;to make protocol more complex based on the un-practical as=
sumption.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Some RFCs really defined some useless stuff (like Lou's draft to depreca=
te PSC-1, PSC-2...), but please don't make the&nbsp;thing happen&nbsp;repea=
tedly.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Fatai</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF397078"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Igor Bryskin [IBryskin=
@advaoptical.com]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C26=C8=D5 10:15<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> Dieter Beller; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
<b>=B3=AD=CB=CD:</b> Fatai Zhang; Lou Berger; ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> RE: [CCAMP] =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: Comments about=
 draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dieter and Fatai,</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We are talking about modifying RFC3473, wh=
ich never says that all bi-directional LSPs are symmetrical. &nbsp;If there=
 is no case for asymmetrical G-LSPs, then
 there is no need for Upstream Label object except for indicating that this=
 is a bi-directional G-LSP. &nbsp;&nbsp;It also means that the label negoti=
ated for the DS direction must be automatically used as US label, which is =
not the behavior of current implementations.
 Are you suggesting that we should just explicitly deprecate asymmetrical L=
SPs?</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Igor
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; =
COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING=
-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1p=
t solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'=
; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-F=
AMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Dieter B=
eller [mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 05, 2013 8:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fatai Zhang; Lou Berger; ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] </span><span style=3D"COLOR: windowtext; FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'T=
ahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">:
</span><span style=3D"COLOR: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=3D"ZH-CN">=
=B4=F0=B8=B4</span><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR=
: windowtext; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-=
assigned-upstream-label-00</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Hi Pavan and Igor,<br>
<br>
I share Fatai's concerns - as far as transport networks are concerned, LSPs=
 are bidirectional in nature<br>
and the labels are symmetric. It would be nice if you could elaborate a bit=
 more and provide some<br>
<b>practical </b>application examples that justify the requirement of asymm=
etric labels.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dieter<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 06.11.2013 00:20, Fatai Zhang wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>Hi,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>For the transport/GMPLS networks, I would repeat the bidirectional LSP=
s are always symmetric in practice, so there are no cases for some nodes to=
 assign asymmetric labels.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>However, I would agree on the requirements if we just do some research=
 in theory. </pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Fatai</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>________________________________________</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccam=
p-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=
=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
</a>] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span> Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailt=
o:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a>]</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>11<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>6<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 6:47</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu P=
avan Beeram</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf=
.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH=
-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comments about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigne=
d-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Igor,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 11:42 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>Lou,</pre>
<pre>In majority of the cases UNI-Cs would want to have their G-LSPs label-=
symmetrical.</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Every time you say UNI-C I've been assuming you mean ingress, is this<=
/pre>
<pre>correct?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>If the label symmetricity is left to the local policy of the network,<=
/pre>
<pre>the latter may decide (e.g. because of existing unidirectional LSPs</p=
re>
<pre>set up for other users or P2MP LSPs) to assign different labels for</p=
re>
<pre>US and DS unless there is an explicit constraint signaled from the</pr=
e>
<pre>UNI-C to make symmetrical or fail the setup.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>So you believe there is a use case where some nodes will assign</pre>
<pre>asymmetric labels for the same service, and other nodes along the LSP<=
/pre>
<pre>only support symmetric labels.&nbsp; Right?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Lou</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>Igor</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----</pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a>]</pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:21 PM</pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram</pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org=
</a></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Great. So this is a nice short list.&nbsp; I think the utility of requ=
irements 1 and 2 are pretty clear. You have stated that both symmetric and =
asymmetric labels are needed in optical for single fiber rings.&nbsp; While=
 I'm personally amazed that these still exist, I&nbsp; (with no hat on) acc=
ept the use case.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>I suspect that some are not convinced on the need to &quot;put label s=
ymmetry into the protocol&quot; (Juilien's question)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Can you (authors) elaborate on why this needs to be changed?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Thanks,</pre>
<pre>Lou</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>On 11/05/2013 02:01 PM, Igor Bryskin wrote:</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>Lou,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream</pre>
<pre>label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I agree with 1-3. But 4. should not be ignored</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----</pre>
<pre>From: Lou Berger [<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a>]</pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 11:29 AM</pre>
<pre>To: Igor Bryskin; Vishnu Pavan Beeram</pre>
<pre>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org=
</a></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comment=
s about</pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Igor,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So you are adding to 3 to cover the case when=
 the upstream node selects the label, right?</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Lou</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>On 11/5/2013 8:20 AM, Igor Bryskin wrote:</pre>
<blockquote style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<pre>I would add:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>5. A way for US node (e.g. UNI-C) to mandate the label symmetricity.</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>*From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] *On</pre>
<pre>Behalf Of *Vishnu Pavan Beeram</pre>
<pre>*Sent:* Tuesday, November 05, 2013 10:50 AM</pre>
<pre>*To:* Lou Berger</pre>
<pre>*Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.o=
rg</a></pre>
<pre>*Subject:* Re: [CCAMP] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>: Comme=
nts about</pre>
<pre>draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Lou,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Yes, your summarized points are correct.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Thanks,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>-Pavan.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Lou Berger &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lber=
ger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">lberger@labn.net</a></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:lberg=
er@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt; wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>Pavan,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think this is helpful in =
trying to understand what the</pre>
<pre>goals are of the draft.&nbsp; Again, I'll resist arguing about the</pr=
e>
<pre>mechanisms that are proposed until we've agreed on what requirements</=
pre>
<pre>need to be addressed.</pre>
<pre>(While the mechanism details, i.e., the &quot;how&quot;, are certainly=
</pre>
<pre>important, arguing those doesn't really answer the larger question of<=
/pre>
<pre>&quot;what&quot; you'd like to accomplish.)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>VPB: Agree.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So the list of requirements is now the addition of:=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Downstream selection of the upstream label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2. An option to allow upstream node to provide set =
of labels that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; should be used in the downstream =
nodes' choice of upstream</pre>
<pre>label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3. The use of symmetric labels when the downstream =
node</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is selecting the label.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Allowing for asymmetric labels is not a new requ=
irement, nor do</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you really care about it.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Is this correct?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lou</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;On 11/5/2013 5:25 AM, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:</p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; I see a pattern in the questions that are bein=
g raised. I'll try</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and see</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; if I can answer them all using the following Q=
&amp;A.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; A. &quot;Label Symmetricity&quot;:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (1) Aren't labels always symmetric in practice=
? Are there any</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; asymmetric</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; label scenarios at all?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes, labels are almost always symmetric i=
n practice. The draft</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; explicitly states that. I haven't come across =
any single</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; scenario/product where asymmetric labels are u=
sed. As Igor pointed out</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; in an earlier email, there could be in theory =
some single-fiber</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; configurations where the same wavelength canno=
t be used for both</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; directions. But I don't know if anyone really =
uses that.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (2) Then why do you need an explicit request f=
rom the ingress to make</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; them symmetric at each hop?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: This is because the extensions in RFC3473=
 allows &quot;Label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Asymmetricity&quot; and and as a result symmet=
ricity cannot be assumed by</pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; default. There is currently no way of mandatin=
g symmetricity at</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; along the path of the LSP.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (3) Say, we all agree that &quot;Symmetricity&=
quot; is always guaranteed</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (maybe we</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; even state it explicitly in some standard docu=
ment). Would you then be</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; able to use existing extensions and address th=
e &quot;alien-wavelength&quot;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; use-case?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: No, the existing extensions still fall sh=
ort. What does the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress-client fill in the UPSTREAM_LABEL when=
 it has no knowledge on</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; what needs to be used? As per current extensio=
ns, the UPSTREAM_LABEL</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; needs to be filled in with a valid label befor=
e sending the PATH</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; out. We</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; still need the ingress-client to have some mec=
hanism to tell the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; - &quot;please ignore what I'm filling in the =
UPSTREAM_LABEL; just take the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; LABEL_SET into account if I fill one; I'll use=
 what is returned in the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; RESV-LABEL for both directions.&quot;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Label allocation has always been a local c=
hoice. Why should the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ingress request how labels are allocated at so=
me downstream hop?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: The ingress has always been the one to re=
quest the downstream</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; node</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; to allocate labels in both directions. All tha=
t the draft is proposing</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; is a mechanism for the ingress to say that the=
se two labels need to be</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; symmetric.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; B. &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (4) Have the &quot;Label Asymmetricity&quot; e=
xtensions been included just for</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; completion sake? Can those be jettisoned if we=
 there is no need for</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; asymmetric labels?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Yes. The primary reason why those extensi=
ons are included in the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; draft is because RFC3473 allows asymmetricity.=
 We don't need to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; discuss</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; those if we explicitly state somewhere (in som=
e standard document)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &quot;labels are always symmetric&quot; and th=
at all previous extensions defined</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; for asymmetricity are use-less.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; C. &quot;Use-Case&quot;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; (5) I don't understand any of the above. Why d=
o we need the network to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; assign an upstream label?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Ans: Please read the draft. Section 5 discusse=
s a specific use-case.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Regards,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; -Pavan</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Zafar Ali (zal=
i) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</=
a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi-</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, when (ali=
en) wavelength is same in forward and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reverse</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; direction, we can use =
label set along with acceptable label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; set - as</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; defined in RFC3473. Th=
e only use case this draft addresses is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; when alien</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength are asymmet=
rical in forward and reverse direction.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; aware of any example o=
f such use case.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards =A1=AD Zafar</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -----Original Message-=
----</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From: Fatai Zhang &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhangfatai@huawe=
i.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhan=
gfatai@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Date: Monday, November=
 4, 2013 7:38 PM</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">julien.meuric@orange.com<=
/a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.=
com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&quot;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <a=
 href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:juli=
en.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;, Vishnu</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pavan</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beeram &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <=
a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:vishnu=
pavan@gmail.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:vishnupavan@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:vishnupavan@gmail.com&gt;</a>&gt;&g=
t;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&=
gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: [CCAMP] <span=
 lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=F0=B8=B4</span>:&nbsp; Comments</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about&nbsp;&nbsp; draf=
t-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Understood what yo=
u said in principle, but could you give an</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; example to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;show there are asy=
mmertric labels (wavelength?) for the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bidirectiaonal</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;LSPs (especiall fo=
r the transport networks) in the real</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implementations?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;In practice, most =
bidirectional LSPs have label symmetricity on</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; each hop</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;along the path of =
the LSP. But this is something that cannot</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; be assumed</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;by default.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Fatai</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
______________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cc=
amp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a></=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [<a href=3D"mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounc=
es@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-boun=
ces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&g=
t;] <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA</span></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B1=ED</span> Julien</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Meuric</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;[<a href=3D"mailto=
:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">julien.meuric@orange.com</a> <=
a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jul=
ien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com</a></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:julien.meuric@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mail=
to:julien.meuric@orange.com&gt;</a>&gt;]</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>: 2013<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>1=
1<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>5<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 10:3=
5</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>: Vishnu Pavan Beeram</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>: <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt=
;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<span lang=3D"ZH-C=
N">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>: Re: [CCAMP] Comments about</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;draft-beeram-ccamp=
-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hi Pavan.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Even though I agre=
e with your unassigned Upstream_Label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; requirement, I</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to disagree w=
ith the data plane rationale you mention.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;The Upstream_Label=
 refers to the client's optical receiver:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; you don't</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;need to tune a las=
er on the receiver side. The data</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; transmission could</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;even work without =
sending the actual Upstream_Label in</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; RSVP-TE messages</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;to the client: I a=
m not really a fan of that approach, but</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that would</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;fit cases where op=
tical policies are left to the optical</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network...</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Moreover, I have d=
oubts on putting label symmetry within the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;This is more an al=
location policy in the hands of allocating</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nodes:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;requesting an allo=
cation mode from an ingress node would mean</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; doing the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;server job, I am n=
ot sure it is desirable.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Julien</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;On 11/04/2013 23:4=
9, Vishnu Pavan Beeram wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Lou,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The extension=
s defined in this draft do not impose any</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; backwards</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; compatibility=
 issues. The intent is definitely not to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; change the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; fundamental a=
spects of the protocol. As you would agree, it</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; mandatory to =
try and fit the extensions defined in RFC3473</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to all and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; sundry. New e=
xtensions are being introduced only where the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; existing</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; extensions fa=
ll short. Let me walk through the requirements</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that we</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; are looking a=
t and that would hopefully explain the limitations</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt; existing exte=
nsions.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Base requirem=
ent :</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Need a mechan=
ism for a given node to say that it cannot</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; assign an</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream-labe=
l on its own and that it needs the network (read</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream) t=
o assign it instead.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Corollary req=
uirements :</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l without having to specify any inputs on what</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; needs to get =
picked.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2. Need a mec=
hanism for a given node to ask for a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; network-assigned</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream labe=
l and also specify some choices for the label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that needs</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to get picked=
.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3. If labels =
are symmetric, a given node can simply use the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; returned in t=
he LABEL object of the RESV message for both</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; directions.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In practice, =
most bidirectional LSPs have label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; symmetricity on each</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop along the=
 path of the LSP. But this is something that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cannot be</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assumed by de=
fault. Hence, there is a need to have a mechanism</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ingress to re=
quest &quot;label symmetricity&quot; at each hop along</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the path of</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP.</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Can you someh=
ow fit a solution using the current extensions</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and cater</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to the above =
requirements?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; We believe th=
e answer is NO. One suggestion on the mailing list</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; was to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; set a random =
UPSTREAM_LABEL and send it out on a fishing</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expedition.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; The idea was =
that the downstream node would then respond with a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PATH-ERR carr=
ying an ACCEPTABLE_LABEL_SET. John and Igor have</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; provided</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; a list of rea=
sons on why that isn't a great idea. Let me</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; add another</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; point -</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - As per RFC3=
473 - when a node receives an UPSTREAM_LABEL</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object in</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the PATH, it =
means that the upstream node MUST have already</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; installed/pro=
grammed this label. In the alien wavelength</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; use-case</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; (discussed in=
 the draft), when the network receives this</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; message, it</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would mean th=
at the laser has already been tuned to this</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength at</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the client. T=
hat beats the very purpose of requesting a network</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; assigned upst=
ream label. Doesn't it? So, the point is that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; current seman=
tics of an UPSTREAM_LABEL, you cannot use it</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;case</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; where the ups=
tream-label hasn't been installed/programmed</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; yet. If</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; some</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; implementatio=
n decides to ignore these semantics, how would the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network know =
whether the ingress-client has already</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; installed this</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label or not =
(whether the laser is already tuned or not).</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RFC3473 state=
s that a Bidirectional-LSP setup request is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; identified by</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the presence =
of an &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL&quot; object in the PATH msg.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; does propose =
2 other mechanisms:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;Label Symmetricity Required&quot; Flag in</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the PATH</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; - The presenc=
e of the &quot;UPSTREAM_LABEL_SET&quot; object in the PATH</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; If a downstre=
am node does not understand any of the above</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indications,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; it would reje=
ct the setup request. In both scenarios -</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; after the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; network has a=
ssigned the upstream-label, the concerned node is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; allowed</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; to start sign=
aling the UPSTREAM_LABEL object in the PATH. I</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; don't</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; understand ho=
w adding two other mechanisms for</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Bidirectional LSP</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; setup</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; translates to=
 changing fundamental aspects of the protocol.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Implementatio=
ns that can support these extensions can.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Others can</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; still be happ=
y with their &quot;running code&quot;.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards,</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; -Pavan</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; On Mon, Nov 4=
, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Lou Berger</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_=
blank">lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_=
blank">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"=
mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;<=
/a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> =
<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:lberger@la=
bn.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" target=3D"_=
blank">mailto:lberger@labn.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net" targ=
et=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; John, (authors)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Perhaps it would be useful to refocus a moment on the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; specific</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; limitations the draft is focusing on.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; There's no question that 3473 made certain choices based on</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; expected</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; uses and probabilities that may not hold, but we do</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; need to be</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;careful</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; when changing fundamentals of the protocol (e.g. moving</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; away from</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; use of the upstream label object as the basic object that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; indicates</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; bidirectional LSP.)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; So is it fair to say that the main limitation that the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;trying</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; to address is the inability to support downstream</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; selection of</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; upstream</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; labels?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; The draft also allows for both symmetric and asymmetric</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; value</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; allocation. IS this a requirement, or asymmetric just</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; included for</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; completeness?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Are there other requirements / limitations you are</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; trying to</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;address?</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; Lou</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; On 11/04/2013 01:24 PM, John E Drake wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Zafar,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Both Igor and I have listed technical issues with RFC3473</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and your</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; response is that you really really like RFC3473. I'm</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; happy for</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; you but</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; unimpressed.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; John</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; Sent from my iPhone</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:43 AM, &quot;Zafar Ali (zali)&quot;</p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mai=
lto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">=
&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor, John-</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; From: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@adva=
optical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Date: Monday, November 4, 2013 8:57 AM</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jd=
rake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">jdra=
ke@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">=
&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_=
blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: Comments about</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; procedure</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; IB&gt;&gt; The way I interpret this discussion is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; something like</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John: I believe that white is a lighter color than</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; black.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafa: Well, John, black is an integral part of the colo=
r</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pallet.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Many mature applications successfully use black for</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; their</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; various</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; purposes. My implementations, for example, use black fo=
r</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; pretty</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; much everything=A1=AD.. So, it is not clear which color=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is lighter,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; why do we need other colors at all. :=3D)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; I mean to say that your, Zafar, comments IMHO are not</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;constructive</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Igor</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and John:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is really funny. This is the first time I have</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; heard that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; code has no merit at IETF :) This is especially when th=
e</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; running code</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is directly coming from RFC3473. You are calling it &qu=
ot;not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; constructive</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; technical arguments&quot;! Last I heard we believed in<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; running code</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;(See</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; your T-shirt from the election day from IETF Atlanta).<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Your draft is ONLY applicable for a use case where</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are different. When</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; downstream alien wavelength are same, use of</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; set and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set objects constitute the running code.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, your</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;draft</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; neither makes that applicability statement nor makes an=
y</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; mention</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;or</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; cover or reference to procedure I quoted from RFC3473.<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards=A1=ADZafar</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Monday, November 04, 2013 1:51 AM</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* John E Drake; Igor Bryskin</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; &nbsp;&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&=
lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: Comments about</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi John:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please see in-line.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" tar=
get=3D"_blank">jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@jun=
iper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mail=
to:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_=
blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mail=
to:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_=
blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=
=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net" target=3D=
"_blank">mailto:jdrake@juniper.net</a> <a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net=
" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:jdrake@juniper.net&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Date: *Sunday, November 3, 2013 11:57 AM</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt; *To: *zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:z=
ali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a> <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot;</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaopti=
cal.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ccamp@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject: *RE: Comments about</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Zafar,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; That because this already defined method has the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; following</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;issues:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 1) Using an error indication as a part of normal</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; protocol</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; operation is not good design practice.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Use of Path error and notify message is an integral par=
t</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; RSVP-TE design. Also please note that we are not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; debating</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; about a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; new procedure being proposed but talking about a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; procedure</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; that</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; already implemented and deployed.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 2) Acceptable Label Set is optional so its presence</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is not</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; guaranteed</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; So is the case of newly defined upstream label set. Als=
o</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; please</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; note that many part of the RSVP-TE protocol are</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; designed using</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; optional objects.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 3) The information it provides may be out of date by</p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the time</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; the LSP is re-signaled.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; This is an implementation issue. A node sending the</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; acceptable</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; label set has the responsibility to guarantee that</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; information</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; provides in the acceptable label set remains valid for<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; re-signaling time. E.g., UNI-N implementation can cache=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; for the re-signaling time.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; 4) Most importantly, Acceptable Label Set is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated hop by</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; hop, unlike Upstream Label Set which exercises the</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; entire</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; path. This means that its use to determine a valid</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; wavelength</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; would require a potentially unbounded number of</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; crankbacks,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; both single and multi-hop, with no guarantee that such =
a</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; wavelength could be found.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; In the use case of align wavelength addressed in this</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft, the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; acceptable label set communication is restricted to the=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; UNI-C and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; UNI-N node.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Yours Irrespectively,</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; John</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *From:*ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</=
a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</=
a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; [<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</=
a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:cca=
mp-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;]</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; *On Behalf Of *Zafar Ali (zali)</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Sent:* Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:12 AM</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *To:* <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@adva=
optical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank=
">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=3D"_blank">mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com=
</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com" target=
=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:IBryskin@advaoptical.com&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&=
lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;m=
ailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:ccamp@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* [CCAMP] Comments about</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; draft-beeram-ccamp-network-assigned-upstream-label-00</=
pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Hi Igor and co-authors-</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Please note that [RFC3473] already considers the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; case where</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; upstream label may not be acceptable to a downstream</p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; node. Specifically, [RFC3473] states that:</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &quot;/when a Path message containing an Upstream_Label=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; object is</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; received, the receiver first verifies that the</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; upstream label</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; is acceptable. If the label is not acceptable, the</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; receiver</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; /*MUST*/issue a PathErr message with a &quot;Routing</p=
re>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; problem/Unacceptable label value&quot; indication. The<=
/pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; generated</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; PathErr message MAY include an Acceptable Label Set</pr=
e>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Object/&quot;.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Acceptable_Label_Set objects may be carried in</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PathErr and</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; ResvErr messages [RFC3473].</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; However, your draft does not mention or cover this</pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; already</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; defined method.</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Thanks</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Regards =A1=AD Zafar</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@i=
etf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; CCAMP mailing list</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.o=
rg</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP=
@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mail=
to:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;&=
gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; _____________=
__________________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; CCAMP mailing=
 list</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto=
:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_bl=
ank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAM=
P@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;__________________=
_____________________________</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;CCAMP mailing list=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAM=
P@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org</a></pre=
>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
>&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a>&gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; ______________________________________________=
_</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; CCAMP mailing list</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">&lt;mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org&gt;</a></pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a>=
</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>&nbsp;</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>=
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>CCAMP mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>=
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_bla=
nk">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA89EFASZXEMA504MBSchi_--

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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-constraint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-signal-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 18:39:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-constraint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-signal-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling
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Hi,

Thanks all of you who provided good comments to WSON related drafts. The ed=
itors will try to respond all the comments and resolve any issues pending a=
nd publish the updated drafts shortly.=20

Regards,
Young on behalf of editors.

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:14 AM
To: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-const=
raint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-sign=
al-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling



The WG last call is complete.  Authors, please address all received comment=
s.

Lou

On 10/22/2013 4:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> All,
> 	Given the recent draft submission deadline and only one comment being=20
> received to date, we'd like to extend the WG more time for review.
>=20
> These drafts represent significant work by the authors and WG, so=20
> please review and let the WG know what you think (positive or negative)!
>=20
> Please have all comments in by October 29.
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
>=20
> On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
>> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
>> The documents included in the last call are:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
>> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
>> -11
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
>> (Standards Track)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints
>> -ospf-te-05
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility
>> -ospf-12
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
>> (Standards
>> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
>> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>>
>> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
>> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
>> technical basis for any comments.
>>
>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
>> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>>
>> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
>> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
>> statements/disclosures.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (and Deborah)
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
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From acee.lindem@ericsson.com  Wed Nov  6 11:22:58 2013
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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'CCAMP WG' <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Pump-priming UNI/PCE/ENNI/MLN/... discussion
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Pump-priming UNI/PCE/ENNI/MLN/... discussion
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I think this is promising framework and would propose that "OSPF Transport
Instance" is ideally suited to fill the IGP requirements.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-transport-instance-10

On 10/22/13 2:24 PM, "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Now that the draft agenda is out for CCAMP in Vancouver it is worth
>stirring up
>a little discussion to see whether we can arrive in British Columbia with
>some
>things ironed out and some ideas we want to dig into deeper.
>
>A bunch of us have been working on a draft to summarise the problems and
>propose
>an architecture. See the latest version at
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-farrel-interconnected-te-info-exchange-02
>
>It might be helpful to break the discussion into consideration of the
>problem
>statement first. Do we have any disagreement about the scope, the type of
>network we need to solve, and the functions we need to deliver.  That
>should
>take you up to the end of Section 3.
>
>Then, as a separate discussion, perhaps we can get into the architecture.
>From a
>broad high level, does it do what we want/need? Yes, there are some
>wrinkles and
>nits to be sorted out in the details.  That should cover section 5.
>
>Finally, can we use the architecture to do useful things. That will be
>sections
>7 and (oops) 8.
>
>Really looking forward to hearing people's opinions.
>
>Thanks,
>Adrian
>
>_______________________________________________
>CCAMP mailing list
>CCAMP@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


From rgandhi@cisco.com  Wed Nov  6 11:43:19 2013
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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
To: Ruiquan Jing <jingrq@ctbri.com.cn>, Fei Zhang <zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn>, "jiang.weilian@gmail.com" <jiang.weilian@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
Thread-Index: AQHO2yhP0FEiegf0D06XCvdyhTAU/w==
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 19:42:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
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Hi WG,

The draft have been updated with dates for keep-alive with minor editing.

There are editorial changes to add [] for [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.

In addition, section 4.1.2 Compatibility is added for ASSOCIATION object
similar to section 4.2.4 for REVERSE_LSP object that was present in the
draft.

Comments are welcome.

thanks,
Rakesh



On 2013-09-16 9:46 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
<internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
>A new version of I-D,
>draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
>has been successfully submitted by Fei Zhang and posted to the
>IETF repository.
>
>Filename:	 draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp
>Revision:	 07
>Title:		 RSVP-TE Extensions for Associated Bidirectional LSPs
>Creation date:	 2013-09-16
>Group:		 ccamp
>Number of pages: 16
>URL:            =20
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-as
>sociated-lsp-07.txt
>Status:         =20
>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associ
>ated-lsp
>Htmlized:       =20
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-
>lsp-07
>Diff:           =20
>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-ass=
oc
>iated-lsp-07
>
>Abstract:
>   The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) requirements document [RFC5654],
>   describes that MPLS-TP MUST support associated bidirectional point-
>   to-point LSPs.
>
>   This document provides a method to bind two unidirectional Label
>   Switched Paths (LSPs) into an associated bidirectional LSP. The
>   association is achieved by defining the new Association Types in the
>   [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.
>
>                 =20
>       =20
>
>
>Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>submission
>until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
>The IETF Secretariat
>


From lberger@labn.net  Wed Nov  6 14:06:48 2013
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 14:06:29 -0800
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "james-yang81@sohu.com" <james-yang81@sohu.com>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
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Rakesh ,

see below.

On 11/6/2013 11:42 AM, Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) wrote:
> Hi WG,
> 
> The draft have been updated with dates for keep-alive with minor editing.
> 
> There are editorial changes to add [] for [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.
> 

Why? brackets are used to indicate references.  This clearly isn't a
reference.

> In addition, section 4.1.2 Compatibility is added for ASSOCIATION object
> similar to section 4.2.4 for REVERSE_LSP object that was present in the
> draft.

This section is really hard to parse.  Also keep in mind, compatibility
sections can only describe what a node that doesn't support the draft is
going to do.  To affect such a node, the node would need to implement
the draft!

> Comments are welcome.

>From an editorial standpoint the document seems to be mixing informative
and normative text (e.g., the overview section contains normative
procedures), as well as provisioning models in such a way that the
document is very hard to read.  I (or Deborah, the document shepherd)
can work with you a bit off-line and then come back to the group with
specific proposed changes.

Lou

> 
> thanks,
> Rakesh
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-09-16 9:46 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
> <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>> A new version of I-D,
>> draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Fei Zhang and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Filename:	 draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp
>> Revision:	 07
>> Title:		 RSVP-TE Extensions for Associated Bidirectional LSPs
>> Creation date:	 2013-09-16
>> Group:		 ccamp
>> Number of pages: 16
>> URL:             
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-as
>> sociated-lsp-07.txt
>> Status:          
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associ
>> ated-lsp
>> Htmlized:        
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-
>> lsp-07
>> Diff:            
>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-assoc
>> iated-lsp-07
>>
>> Abstract:
>>   The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) requirements document [RFC5654],
>>   describes that MPLS-TP MUST support associated bidirectional point-
>>   to-point LSPs.
>>
>>   This document provides a method to bind two unidirectional Label
>>   Switched Paths (LSPs) into an associated bidirectional LSP. The
>>   association is achieved by defining the new Association Types in the
>>   [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.
>>
>>                  
>>        
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> 
> 
> 
> 

From rgandhi@cisco.com  Wed Nov  6 14:47:44 2013
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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Ruiquan Jing <jingrq@ctbri.com.cn>, "Fei Zhang" <zhang.fei3@zte.com.cn>, "jiang.weilian@gmail.com" <jiang.weilian@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
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Hi Lou,

I understand. Yes, I will work you on the required changes.

Thanks,
Rakesh


On 2013-11-06 5:06 PM, "Lou Berger" <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

>
>Rakesh ,
>
>see below.
>
>On 11/6/2013 11:42 AM, Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi) wrote:
>> Hi WG,
>>=20
>> The draft have been updated with dates for keep-alive with minor
>>editing.
>>=20
>> There are editorial changes to add [] for [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.
>>=20
>
>Why? brackets are used to indicate references.  This clearly isn't a
>reference.
>
>> In addition, section 4.1.2 Compatibility is added for ASSOCIATION object
>> similar to section 4.2.4 for REVERSE_LSP object that was present in the
>> draft.
>
>This section is really hard to parse.  Also keep in mind, compatibility
>sections can only describe what a node that doesn't support the draft is
>going to do.  To affect such a node, the node would need to implement
>the draft!
>
>> Comments are welcome.
>
>From an editorial standpoint the document seems to be mixing informative
>and normative text (e.g., the overview section contains normative
>procedures), as well as provisioning models in such a way that the
>document is very hard to read.  I (or Deborah, the document shepherd)
>can work with you a bit off-line and then come back to the group with
>specific proposed changes.
>
>Lou
>
>>=20
>> thanks,
>> Rakesh
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 2013-09-16 9:46 PM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org"
>> <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>=20
>>>
>>> A new version of I-D,
>>> draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp-07.txt
>>> has been successfully submitted by Fei Zhang and posted to the
>>> IETF repository.
>>>
>>> Filename:	 draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associated-lsp
>>> Revision:	 07
>>> Title:		 RSVP-TE Extensions for Associated Bidirectional LSPs
>>> Creation date:	 2013-09-16
>>> Group:		 ccamp
>>> Number of pages: 16
>>> URL:          =20
>>>=20
>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-
>>>as
>>> sociated-lsp-07.txt
>>> Status:       =20
>>>=20
>>>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-asso
>>>ci
>>> ated-lsp
>>> Htmlized:     =20
>>>=20
>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-associate
>>>d-
>>> lsp-07
>>> Diff:         =20
>>>=20
>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-mpls-tp-rsvpte-ext-a=
ss
>>>oc
>>> iated-lsp-07
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>   The MPLS Transport Profile (MPLS-TP) requirements document [RFC5654],
>>>   describes that MPLS-TP MUST support associated bidirectional point-
>>>   to-point LSPs.
>>>
>>>   This document provides a method to bind two unidirectional Label
>>>   Switched Paths (LSPs) into an associated bidirectional LSP. The
>>>   association is achieved by defining the new Association Types in the
>>>   [Extended] ASSOCIATION object.
>>>
>>>               =20
>>>       =20
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>> submission
>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>
>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20


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Hi, all,

  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already requir=
e retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.=20

Section 3.2 from RFC5553
"
.......
On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and pr=
ovide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the latt=
er case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the LSR that =
performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In both ca=
ses, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to diagnostic tools =
under the control of local policy.
"

My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB docume=
nting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw informat=
ion etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in http://tools.ietf.org/=
html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 incur any new additional =
requirements. Please review our draft and let us know what you think.

Cheers,
Xian=

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Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:25:33 +0000
From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Oscar_Gonz=E1lez_de_Dios?= <ogondio@tid.es>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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Hi all,

As inputs for the terminology discussions, please find bellow a set of defi=
nitions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a short reference, they ar=
e easy to find with the number):

[G.807] (ITU-T): "User-Network Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bid=
irectional signaling interface between service requester and service provid=
er control plane entities."

In the same document: "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the foll=
owing information elements:
? End-point name and address;
? Authentication and connection admission control;
? Connection service messages.=94

[G.8081] (ITU-T): "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An U=
NI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service requester and ser=
vice provider control plane entities.=94

[G.8080] (ITU-T): =93UNI
Information flows expected across the UNI reference point support the follo=
wing functions:
- call control
- resource discovery
- connection control
- connection selection.
Note, there is no routing function associated with the UNI reference point.=
 Additional functions such as security and authentication of calls, or enha=
nced directory services,
may be added to this basic set of functions."

[RFC3717]: =93The client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a =
service boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and the optical netwo=
rk.  The client and server (optical network) are essentially two different =
roles: the client role requests a service connection from a server; the ser=
ver role establishes the connection to fulfill the service request =97 prov=
ided all relevant admission control conditions are satisfied.=94

   [OIF UNI1.0]: UNI: =93The service control interface between a client dev=
ice and the transport network.=94
 UNI-C: =94The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client =
device side.=94
UNI-N: =93The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on the transpor=
t network side.=94

       [MEF 11]: =93The MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions b=
etween Subscribers of MEF defined services and the MEN Service Provider.=94

Hope it helps in the discussions,

Best Regards,

Oscar





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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:1=
4px">
<div>
<div>Hi all,</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:1=
4px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:1=
4px"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>As inp=
uts for the terminology discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow a set of defin=
itions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with
 a short reference, they are easy to find with the number):</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:1=
4px"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"font-size:14px; white-space:pre"></span>[G.807=
<span style=3D"font-size:16px">] (ITU-T): &quot;</span>User-Network Interfa=
ce for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
 signaling interface between service requester and service provider control=
 plane entities.&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>In the same document: =
&quot;UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following information=
 elements:</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">? <span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span>End-point name and address;</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">? <span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span>Authentication and connection admission control;</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">? <span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span>Connection service messages.=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>[G.8081] (ITU-T): &quo=
t;user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An UNI is a bidirecti=
onal signaling interface between service requester
 and service provider control plane entities.=94<span class=3D"Apple-tab-sp=
an" style=3D"white-space:pre">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>[G.8080] (ITU-T): =93U=
NI</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Information flows expe=
cted across the UNI reference point support the following functions:</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>- call control</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>- resource discovery</=
div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>- connection control</=
div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>- connection selection=
.</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Note, there is no rout=
ing function associated with the UNI reference point. Additional functions =
such as security and authentication of
 calls, or enhanced directory services,</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">may be adde=
d to this basic set of functions.&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span>[RFC3717]: =93The clie=
nt-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a service boundary betwe=
en the client (e.g., IP router) and the
 optical network. &nbsp;The client and server (optical network) are essenti=
ally two different roles: the client role requests a service connection fro=
m a server; the server role establishes the connection to fulfill the servi=
ce request =97 provided all relevant admission
 control conditions are satisfied.=94</div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]: UNI: =93T=
he service control interface between a client device and the transport netw=
ork.=94</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp;UNI-C: =94The logical entity t=
hat terminates UNI signalling on the client device side.=94</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"></span>UNI-N: =93The logical entity that terminates UN=
I signalling on the transport network side.=94</font></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[MEF 11]:=
 =93The MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions between Subscribe=
rs of&nbsp;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">MEF defined&nbsp;</font=
><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">services and the MEN Servic=
e
 Provider.</span><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=94</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Hope it helps in the discussions,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Best Regards,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=
=3D"white-space:pre"></span>Oscar</font></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-size:1=
4px"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"></span></div>
<br>
<hr>
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Routing and Wavelength Assignment Information Model for =
Wavelength Switched Optical Networks
	Author(s)       : Young Lee
                          Greg M. Bernstein
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2013-11-07

Abstract:
   This document provides a model of information needed by the routing
   and wavelength assignment (RWA) process in wavelength switched
   optical networks (WSONs).  The purpose of the information described
   in this model is to facilitate constrained lightpath computation in
   WSONs. This model takes into account compatibility constraints
   between WSON signal attributes and network elements but does not
   include constraints due to optical impairments. Aspects of this
   information that may be of use to other technologies utilizing a
   GMPLS control plane are discussed.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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From: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
To: =?gb2312?B?T3NjYXIgR29ueqiibGV6IGRlIERpb3M=?= <ogondio@tid.es>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:33:35 +0000
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<html dir=3D"ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
<style id=3D"owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
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10pt;">
<p>Thank you, Oscar. It indeed helps me to understand the UNI better. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Previously&nbsp;I thought the UNI defintion would include&nbsp;allowing =
for reachability information across this interface. Clearly, it DOES NOT fr=
om the text you provide below.
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>So, i&nbsp;double-checked RFC4208, it turns out that this &quot;reachabi=
lity information&quot; is mentioned when talking about overlay model:
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&quot; In the overlay model, the core-nodes act more as a closed system.=
 The edge-nodes do not participate
<br>
&nbsp; in the routing protocol instance that runs among the core nodes; in&=
nbsp;particular, the edge-nodes are unaware
</p>
<p>of the topology of the core-nodes.&nbsp; There may, however, be a routin=
g protocol interaction between<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; a core-node and an edge-node for the exchange of reachability&=
nbsp;information to other edge-nodes.&quot;<br>
</p>
<p>Hope&nbsp;this helps a bit on clarification and ongoing discussion. </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Xian</p>
<p></p>
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<p></p>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 16px=
">
<div style=3D"DIRECTION: ltr" id=3D"divRpF416998"><font color=3D"#000000" s=
ize=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
 [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Oscar Gonz=A8=A2lez de Dios [ogondio=
@tid.es]<br>
<b>=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:</b> 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C28=C8=D5 3:25<br>
<b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB:</b> CCAMP<br>
<b>=D6=F7=CC=E2:</b> [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definiti=
ons across different SDOs<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE=
: 14px">
<div>
<div>Hi all,</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE=
: 14px">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE=
: 14px">
<span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>As inputs =
for the terminology discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow a set of definitio=
ns for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a short reference, they are eas=
y to find with the number):</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE=
: 14px">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 14px" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>[G=
.807<span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 16px">] (ITU-T): &quot;</span>User-Network In=
terface for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
 signaling interface between service requester and service provider control=
 plane entities.&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>In the same documen=
t: &quot;UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following informat=
ion elements:</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">? <span s=
tyle=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span">
</span>End-point name and address;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">? <span s=
tyle=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span">
</span>Authentication and connection admission control;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">? <span s=
tyle=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span">
</span>Connection service messages.=A1=B1</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8081] (ITU-T): &=
quot;user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An UNI is a bidire=
ctional signaling interface between service
 requester and service provider control plane entities.=A1=B1<span style=3D=
"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span">
</span></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8080] (ITU-T): =
=A1=B0UNI</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>Information flows e=
xpected across the UNI reference point support the following functions:</di=
v>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>- call control</div=
>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>- resource discover=
y</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection contro=
l</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection select=
ion.</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>Note, there is no r=
outing function associated with the UNI reference point. Additional functio=
ns such as security and authentication
 of calls, or enhanced directory services,</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">may be ad=
ded to this basic set of functions.&quot;</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span sty=
le=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>[RFC3717]: =A1=B0Th=
e client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a service boundary=
 between the client (e.g., IP router) and the
 optical network. &nbsp;The client and server (optical network) are essenti=
ally two different roles: the client role requests a service connection fro=
m a server; the server role establishes the connection to fulfill the servi=
ce request =A1=AA provided all relevant admission
 control conditions are satisfied.=A1=B1</div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]: UNI: =A1=
=B0The service control interface between a client device and the transport =
network.=A1=B1</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp;UNI-C: =A1=B1The logical entit=
y that terminates UNI signalling on the client device side.=A1=B1</font></d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>UNI-N: =A1=B0The logical entity that terminate=
s UNI signalling on the transport network side.=A1=B1</font></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[MEF 11]:=
 =A1=B0The MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions between Subscr=
ibers of&nbsp;</font><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">MEF defined&nbsp;</f=
ont><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">services and the MEN
 Service Provider.</span><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">=A1=B1</font></d=
iv>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>Hope it helps in the discussions,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>Best Regards,</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" cla=
ss=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span>Oscar</font></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE=
: 14px">
<span style=3D"WHITE-SPACE: pre" class=3D"Apple-tab-span"></span></div>
<br>
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Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nu=
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co en el enlace situado m=A8=A2s abajo.<br>
This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and re=
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-constraint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-signal-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-constraint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-signal-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling
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Hi Lou,

In the update just published, all your general comments have been applied t=
o draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info.=20

Thanks.
Young

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:25 PM
To: CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-ccamp-gener=
al-constraint-encode@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools=
.ietf.org; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te@tools.ietf.or=
g; draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-ospf@tools.ietf.org; draft-ie=
tf-ccamp-wson-signaling@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - rwa-info, general-const=
raint-encode, rwa-wson-encode, gmpls-general-constraints-ospf-te, wson-sign=
al-compatibility-ospf, wson-signaling

Authors,
	I have some general comments on these documents as a set, i.e., that apply=
 to all documents.  I also have document specific comments that I'll send s=
eparately.

Note that I'm the document shepherd, see RFC 4858 for more information.

General comments:

- Broken cross references:  The documents have a lot of pointers to each ot=
her, many of which are broken and need to be fixed.  For example (and NOT t=
he only one!) the signaling document has:
   <RBInformation> is defined in Section 4.1 of [WSON-Encode].

1. While the section reference is correct (but check others as this isn't a=
lways the case), there is no <RBInformation> defined in the document.  The =
problem here is inconsistent usage of BNF and expanded style names.  I thin=
k it's fine to use both, e.g., <RBInformation> and Resource Block Informati=
on, but there needs to be consistent cross referencing and definitions.  Th=
is problem also exists within drafts too.

2. As above, please verify cross referenced section numbers

- It looks like there are still some vestigial references to "ingress"
and "egress" (noted as replaced by "input" and "output").  This also shows =
in abbreviations where 'E' is used rather than 'O'.

- In a number of documents s/GPID/G-PID

- Revision history should be removed at this point.

- Please ensure abbreviations are expanded on first use. See http://www.rfc=
-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/abbrev.expansion.txt for additional guidance.

- Your terminology sections include terms that are only used in this sectio=
n.  This does not make sense.  The terminology section also duplicates what=
 is already in RFC6163. I suggest eliminating such sections and adding refe=
rences to RFC6163 if/where needed.

- Please double check that there are no idnits

- Please update any references that are now RFCs, e.g., RBNF

- A general discussion on security in GMPLS networks can be found in RFC592=
0.  I suggest adding an informative reference in your security sections.

Thanks,
Lou

On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
> All,
>=20
> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
> The documents included in the last call are:
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-
> 11
> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
> (Standards Track)
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints-
> ospf-te-05
> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility-
> ospf-12
> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
> (Standards
> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>=20
> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
> technical basis for any comments.
>=20
> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>=20
> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
> statements/disclosures.
>=20
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From lberger@labn.net  Thu Nov  7 13:52:01 2013
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: =?UTF-8?Q?Oscar_Gonz=C3=A1lez_de_Dios?= <ogondio@tid.es>
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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Some additional references:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5921#section-3.4.3
Defines both uni and nni.

Also figures are corrected in
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6215

Lou

On 11:25am, November 7, 2013, Oscar Gonz=C3=A1lez de Dios wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From leeyoung@huawei.com  Thu Nov  7 14:32:31 2013
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info
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Hi Lou,

Here's my response to specific comments to draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info.=20

Thanks.
Young
-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:26 PM
To: CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-in=
fo


Authors,
	I have some comments on draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info. Most are strictly edito=
rial. Note that I'm the document shepherd, see RFC 4858 for more informatio=
n.

- Please address my general comments on the WSON document set

YOUNG>> Done.

- You say: " relatively static on the time scales of
   connection establishment."  I suspect you mean:
   " relatively static and independent of connection establishment."

YOUNG>> Yes, and replaced with your suggestion.

- Your references to [Switch] seem almost normative in nature. I suspect th=
at this is not your intent as it is listed as an informative reference.  Pl=
ease revisit your references and ensure that the draft does not depend on a=
ny informative references.  (Either change the text, or move the reference =
to normative.)

YOUNG>> [Switch] moved to normative reference section.

- s/inputinput/input

- s/outputoutput/output

YOUNG>> Done.

- Section 4.1: " ...  and path computation [Encode]."
  While a normative reference to [Encode] is certainly just fine, I
  reference is unclear in this context.

YOUNG>> [Encode] deleted.

- Why say "potentially switched" vs just "switched"?  if "potentially"
doesn't add anything please drop it, otherwise please clarify.

YOUNG>> "potentially" removed.

- Section 4.2: SRNG
  I don't see SRNG in any other documents.  Am I missing it, is SRNG used a=
nywhere?

YOUNG>> SNRG section removed.=20

- Section 5: I found it hard to parse the following:
   As resources are the smallest identifiable unit of
   processing resource, one can group together resources into blocks if
   they have similar characteristics relevant to the optical system
   being modeled, e.g., processing properties, accessibility, etc.
  Do you perhaps mean?
   A resource is the smallest identifiable unit of
   allocation. One can group together resources into blocks if
   they have similar characteristics relevant to the optical system
   being modeled, e.g., processing properties, accessibility, etc.

YOUNG>> Agreed. Changed.

-Section 5.1: States: " Note that except for <ResourcePoolState>
  all the other components of <ResourcePool> are relatively static."
  But the related definitions are:

   <ResourcePool> ::=3D <ResourceBlockInfo>...
   [<ResourceAccessibility>...] [<ResourceWaveConstraints>...]
   [<RBPoolState>] (section 5)

   <DynamicNodeInfo> ::=3D  <NodeID> [<ResourcePoolState>] (section 7.2)

   What's the intent here?

YOUNG>> See the cleaned text in Section 7.2:
   Currently the only node information that can be considered dynamic
   is the resource pool state and can be isolated into a dynamic node
   information element as follows:

   <DynamicNodeInfo> ::=3D  <NodeID> [<ResourcePool>]

   Where

   <ResourcePool> ::=3D <ResourceBlockInfo>...[<RBPoolState>]=20


- Section 5.2: What is the asterisk "*" all about.

YOUNG>> That means whatever within () can be repeated.=20

- Section 5.3.3 says
      <client-signal-list>::=3D[<GPID>]...
   should <client-signal-list> be <ClientSignalList> as defined in
   section 5.2?

YOUNG>> Yes; Changed to ClientSignalList.


- Section 5.3.4 repeats section 5.2.  replace:
  " as follows:

     <ProcessingCapabilities> ::=3D [<NumResources>]
     [<RegenerationCapabilities>] [<FaultPerfMon>] [<VendorSpecific>]"
  with "."


YOUNG>> Done.

- Section 6.5: I found the following language confused:
   This allows for the
   definition of one additional link metric value for traffic
   engineering separate from the IP link state routing protocols link
   metric.
  How about:
   This allows for the
   identification of a data channel link metric value for traffic
   engineering that is separate from the metric used for
   path cost computation of the control plane.

YOUNG>> Accepted the new text.

- Section 6.6: Drop "(Wavelength)" from the title, this can be confused wit=
h the "WSON" indication in section headings

YOUNG>> agreed.=20

- Section 6.6.: You just say (Wavelength) and leave it to the reader to inf=
er the relationship between it and a label. I suggest you make the relation=
ship explicit.

YOUNG>> See the new text in the beginning of section 6.6: "Port label restr=
ictions could be applied generally to any label
   types in GMPLS by adding new kinds of restrictions. Wavelength is a type=
 of label."

- Section 6.6.  I think you have a BNF problem here.  The BNF says restrict=
ion parameters are always optional, but your text says that there are requi=
rements based on <RestrictionTypes>.  I think the BNF needs to be aligned w=
ith the text and reflect the requirements.

YOUNG>> Made all mandatory element.=20

- Section 7: You say " An example usage of this
   information in a WSON setting is given in [Shared]."

  References to URLs should be avoided (particularity when they aren't
  valid even at the time of publication, i.e., now).

YOUNG>> URL Reference removed.=20

That's it on this one,
Lou

On 10/22/2013 4:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> All,
> 	Given the recent draft submission deadline and only one comment being=20
> received to date, we'd like to extend the WG more time for review.
>=20
> These drafts represent significant work by the authors and WG, so=20
> please review and let the WG know what you think (positive or negative)!
>=20
> Please have all comments in by October 29.
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
>=20
> On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
>> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
>> The documents included in the last call are:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
>> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
>> -11
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
>> (Standards Track)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints
>> -ospf-te-05
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility
>> -ospf-12
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
>> (Standards
>> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
>> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>>
>> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
>> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
>> technical basis for any comments.
>>
>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
>> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>>
>> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
>> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
>> statements/disclosures.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (and Deborah)
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Nov  7 15:14:32 2013
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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    <font face="Tahoma">Hi all,<br>
      <br>
      <a
href="https://all1.na.alcatel-lucent.com/projects/WDM-RD/1830%20SW%20General%20Info/Status/Software%20Status-W45.xlsx">ITU-T
        Recommendation G.8080</a> is probably the most appropriate
      reference as far as the existing UNI definitions are concerned
      from a CCAMP perspective. The OIF UNI/E-NNI work was based on the
      architecture and definition of the<br>
      UNI/E-NNI reference points in G.8080.<br>
      <br>
      Please note that there is no UNI protocol defined to convey <b>reachability
      </b>information - the assumption was that this<br>
      information needs to be configured on the CE device (UNI-C side).
      A protocol for conveying this information is<br>
      certainly something that can be considered as a future add-on.
      Policy rules are required on the network side of the<br>
      UNI as to what reachbility information should be provided to a
      specific CE device (--&gt;VPNs). <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Dieter<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07.11.2013 22:33, Zhangxian (Xian)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:C636AF2FA540124E9B9ACB5A6BECCE6B263E04AB@szxeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <style id="owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
      <div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
        #000000;font-size: 10pt;">
        <p>Thank you, Oscar. It indeed helps me to understand the UNI
          better. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Previously&nbsp;I thought the UNI defintion would include&nbsp;allowing
          for reachability information across this interface. Clearly,
          it DOES NOT from the text you provide below.
        </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>So, i&nbsp;double-checked RFC4208, it turns out that this
          "reachability information" is mentioned when talking about
          overlay model:
        </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>" In the overlay model, the core-nodes act more as a closed
          system. The edge-nodes do not participate
          <br>
          &nbsp; in the routing protocol instance that runs among the core
          nodes; in&nbsp;particular, the edge-nodes are unaware
        </p>
        <p>of the topology of the core-nodes.&nbsp; There may, however, be a
          routing protocol interaction between<br>
          &nbsp;&nbsp; a core-node and an edge-node for the exchange of
          reachability&nbsp;information to other edge-nodes."<br>
        </p>
        <p>Hope&nbsp;this helps a bit on clarification and ongoing
          discussion. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Regards,</p>
        <p>Xian</p>
        <hr tabindex="-1">
        <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000;
          FONT-SIZE: 16px">
          <div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF416998"><font
              color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>&#21457;&#20214;&#20154;:</b>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>] &#20195;&#34920; Oscar
              Gonz&aacute;lez de Dios [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ogondio@tid.es">ogondio@tid.es</a>]<br>
              <b>&#21457;&#36865;&#26102;&#38388;:</b> 2013&#24180;11&#26376;8&#26085; 3:25<br>
              <b>&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;:</b> CCAMP<br>
              <b>&#20027;&#39064;:</b> [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI
              definitions across different SDOs<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <div>
                <div>Hi all,</div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>As
              inputs for the terminology discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow
              a set of definitions for UNI coming from different SDOs
              (with a short reference, they are easy to find with the
              number):</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE:
                14px" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.807<span
                style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">] (ITU-T): "</span>User-Network
              Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
              signaling interface between service requester and service
              provider control plane entities."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>In the same document:
              "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following
              information elements:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span">
              </span>End-point name and address;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span">
              </span>Authentication and connection admission control;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span">
              </span>Connection service messages.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8081] (ITU-T):
              "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An
              UNI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service
              requester and service provider control plane entities.&#8221;<span
                style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span">
              </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8080] (ITU-T): &#8220;UNI</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Information flows expected
              across the UNI reference point support the following
              functions:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- call control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- resource discovery</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection selection.</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Note, there is no routing
              function associated with the UNI reference point.
              Additional functions such as security and authentication
              of calls, or enhanced directory services,</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">may be added to this basic set of functions."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[RFC3717]: &#8220;The
              client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a
              service boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and
              the optical network. &nbsp;The client and server (optical
              network) are essentially two different roles: the client
              role requests a service connection from a server; the
              server role establishes the connection to fulfill the
              service request &#8212; provided all relevant admission control
              conditions are satisfied.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]: UNI:
                &#8220;The service control interface between a client device
                and the transport network.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp;UNI-C: &#8221;The logical
                entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client
                device side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>UNI-N:
                &#8220;The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on
                the transport network side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[MEF 11]: &#8220;The
                MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions
                between Subscribers of&nbsp;</font><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">MEF defined&nbsp;</font><span
                style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">services and the
                MEN Service Provider.</span><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Hope
                it helps in the discussions,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Best
                Regards,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Oscar</font></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span></div>
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To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Oscar_Go?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?nz=E1lez_de_Dios?= <ogondio@tid.es>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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    <font face="Tahoma">Hi all,<br>
      <br>
      <a
href="https://www.itu.int/rec/dologin_pub.asp?lang=e&amp;id=T-REC-G.8080-201202-I%21%21PDF-E&amp;type=items">ITU-T

        Recommendation G.8080</a> is probably the most appropriate
      reference as far as the existing UNI definitions are<br>
      concerned from a CCAMP perspective. The OIF UNI/E-NNI work was
      based on the architecture and definition of the<br>
      UNI/E-NNI reference points in G.8080.<br>
      <br>
      Please note that there is no UNI protocol defined to convey <b>reachability

      </b>information - the assumption was that this<br>
      information needs to be configured on the CE device (UNI-C side).
      A protocol for conveying this information is<br>
      certainly something that can be considered as a future add-on.
      Policy rules are required on the network side of the<br>
      UNI as to what reachbility information should be provided to a
      specific CE device (--&gt;VPNs). <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Dieter<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07.11.2013 22:33, Zhangxian (Xian)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:C636AF2FA540124E9B9ACB5A6BECCE6B263E04AB@szxeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
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        <p>Thank you, Oscar. It indeed helps me to understand the UNI
          better. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Previously&nbsp;I thought the UNI defintion would include&nbsp;allowing
          for reachability information across this interface. Clearly,
          it DOES NOT from the text you provide below. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>So, i&nbsp;double-checked RFC4208, it turns out that this
          "reachability information" is mentioned when talking about
          overlay model: </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>" In the overlay model, the core-nodes act more as a closed
          system. The edge-nodes do not participate <br>
          &nbsp; in the routing protocol instance that runs among the core
          nodes; in&nbsp;particular, the edge-nodes are unaware </p>
        <p>of the topology of the core-nodes.&nbsp; There may, however, be a
          routing protocol interaction between<br>
          &nbsp;&nbsp; a core-node and an edge-node for the exchange of
          reachability&nbsp;information to other edge-nodes."<br>
        </p>
        <p>Hope&nbsp;this helps a bit on clarification and ongoing
          discussion. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Regards,</p>
        <p>Xian</p>
        <hr tabindex="-1">
        <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000;
          FONT-SIZE: 16px">
          <div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF416998"><font
              color="#000000" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>&#21457;&#20214;&#20154;:</b> <a
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
              [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              &#20195;&#34920; Oscar Gonz&aacute;lez de Dios [<a
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ogondio@tid.es">ogondio@tid.es</a>]<br>
              <b>&#21457;&#36865;&#26102;&#38388;:</b> 2013&#24180;11&#26376;8&#26085; 3:25<br>
              <b>&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;:</b> CCAMP<br>
              <b>&#20027;&#39064;:</b> [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI
              definitions across different SDOs<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <div>
                <div>Hi all,</div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <span style="WHITE-SPACE:
                pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>As inputs for the
              terminology discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow a set of
              definitions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a
              short reference, they are easy to find with the number):</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE:
                14px" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.807<span
                style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">] (ITU-T): "</span>User-Network
              Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
              signaling interface between service requester and service
              provider control plane entities."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>In the same document:
              "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following
              information elements:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>End-point name and
              address;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Authentication and
              connection admission control;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Connection service
              messages.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8081] (ITU-T):
              "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An
              UNI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service
              requester and service provider control plane entities.&#8221;<span
                style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8080] (ITU-T): &#8220;UNI</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Information flows expected
              across the UNI reference point support the following
              functions:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- call control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- resource discovery</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection selection.</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Note, there is no routing
              function associated with the UNI reference point.
              Additional functions such as security and authentication
              of calls, or enhanced directory services,</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">may be added to this basic set of functions."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[RFC3717]: &#8220;The
              client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a
              service boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and
              the optical network. &nbsp;The client and server (optical
              network) are essentially two different roles: the client
              role requests a service connection from a server; the
              server role establishes the connection to fulfill the
              service request &#8212; provided all relevant admission control
              conditions are satisfied.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]: UNI:
                &#8220;The service control interface between a client device
                and the transport network.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp;UNI-C: &#8221;The logical
                entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client
                device side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>UNI-N:

                &#8220;The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on
                the transport network side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[MEF 11]: &#8220;The
                MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions
                between Subscribers of&nbsp;</font><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">MEF defined&nbsp;</font><span
                style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">services and the
                MEN Service Provider.</span><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Hope

                it helps in the discussions,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Best

                Regards,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Oscar</font></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <span style="WHITE-SPACE:
                pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span></div>
            <br>
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Hi,

This version incorporated all inputs received during WG LC process.=20

Let us know if you have further comments of this version.

Thanks.
Young on behalf of co-authors.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of i=
nternet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:45 PM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Routing and Wavelength Assignment Information Model for =
Wavelength Switched Optical Networks
	Author(s)       : Young Lee
                          Greg M. Bernstein
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2013-11-07

Abstract:
   This document provides a model of information needed by the routing
   and wavelength assignment (RWA) process in wavelength switched
   optical networks (WSONs).  The purpose of the information described
   in this model is to facilitate constrained lightpath computation in
   WSONs. This model takes into account compatibility constraints
   between WSON signal attributes and network elements but does not
   include constraints due to optical impairments. Aspects of this
   information that may be of use to other technologies utilizing a
   GMPLS control plane are discussed.




The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-19


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, =?UTF-8?B?T3NjYXIgR29uesOhbGV6IGRlIERpb3M=?= <ogondio@tid.es>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 16:13:45 -0800
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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While referencing ITU-T documents and terminology is certainly something we 
often do in CCAMP, I think the foundation of the WG's activity is first 
within the IETF and RFCs.

Lou


On November 7, 2013 3:19:33 PM Dieter Beller 
<Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
> P {
> MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
> }
>
> Hi all,
>
> ITU-T
>
> Recommendation G.8080 is probably the most appropriate
> reference as far as the existing UNI definitions are
> concerned from a CCAMP perspective. The OIF UNI/E-NNI work was
> based on the architecture and definition of the
> UNI/E-NNI reference points in G.8080.
>
> Please note that there is no UNI protocol defined to convey reachability
>
> information - the assumption was that this
> information needs to be configured on the CE device (UNI-C side).
> A protocol for conveying this information is
> certainly something that can be considered as a future add-on.
> Policy rules are required on the network side of the
> UNI as to what reachbility information should be provided to a
> specific CE device (-->VPNs).
>
> Thanks,
> Dieter
>
> On 07.11.2013 22:33, Zhangxian (Xian)
> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Oscar. It indeed helps me to understand the UNI
> better.
> Â 
> PreviouslyÂ I thought the UNI defintion would includeÂ allowing
> for reachability information across this interface. Clearly,
> it DOES NOT from the text you provide below.
> Â 
> So, iÂ double-checked RFC4208, it turns out that this
> "reachability information" is mentioned when talking about
> overlay model:
> Â 
> " In the overlay model, the core-nodes act more as a closed
> system. The edge-nodes do not participate
> Â  in the routing protocol instance that runs among the core
> nodes; inÂ particular, the edge-nodes are unaware
> of the topology of the core-nodes.Â  There may, however, be a
> routing protocol interaction between
> Â Â  a core-node and an edge-node for the exchange of
> reachabilityÂ information to other edge-nodes."
>
> HopeÂ this helps a bit on clarification and ongoing
> discussion.
> Â 
> Regards,
> Xian
>
> å�‘ä»¶äºº: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org
> [ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
> ä»£è¡¨ Oscar GonzÃ¡lez de Dios [ogondio@tid.es]
> å�‘é€�æ—¶é—´: 2013å¹´11æœˆ8æ—¥ 3:25
> æ”¶ä»¶äºº: CCAMP
> ä¸»é¢˜: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI
> definitions across different SDOs
>
> Hi all,
>
> As inputs for the
> terminology discussions,Â please find bellow a set of
> definitions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a
> short reference, they are easy to find with the number):
>
> [G.807] (ITU-T): "User-Network
> Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
> signaling interface between service requester and service
> provider control plane entities."
>
> In the same document:
> "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following
> information elements:
> ?  End-point name and
> address;
> ?  Authentication and
> connection admission control;
> ?  Connection service
> messages.â€�
>
> [G.8081] (ITU-T):
> "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An
> UNI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service
> requester and service provider control plane entities.â€�
>
> [G.8080] (ITU-T): â€œUNI
> Information flows expected
> across the UNI reference point support the following
> functions:
> - call control
> - resource discovery
> - connection control
> - connection selection.
> Note, there is no routing
> function associated with the UNI reference point.
> Additional functions such as security and authentication
> of calls, or enhanced directory services,
> may be added to this basic set of functions."
>
> [RFC3717]: â€œThe
> client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a
> service boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and
> the optical network. Â The client and server (optical
> network) are essentially two different roles: the client
> role requests a service connection from a server; the
> server role establishes the connection to fulfill the
> service request â€” provided all relevant admission control
> conditions are satisfied.â€�
>
> Â  Â [OIF UNI1.0]: UNI:
> â€œThe service control interface between a client device
> and the transport network.â€�
> Â UNI-C: â€�The logical
> entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client
> device side.â€�
> UNI-N:
>
> â€œThe logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on
> the transport network side.â€�
>
> Â  Â  Â  Â [MEF 11]: â€œThe
> MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions
> between Subscribers ofÂ MEF definedÂ services and the
> MEN Service Provider.â€�
>
> Hope
>
> it helps in the discussions,
>
> Best
>
> Regards,
>
> Oscar
>
> Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario.
> Puede consultar nuestra polÃ­tica de envÃ­o y recepciÃ³n de
> correo electrÃ³nico en el enlace situado mÃ¡s abajo.
> This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We
> only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set
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>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

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<p>While referencing ITU-T documents and terminology is certainly something
we often do in CCAMP, I think the foundation of the WG's activity is first
within the IETF and RFCs.</p>
<p>Lou</p>
<p>On November 7, 2013 3:19:33 PM Dieter Beller
<Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
    <font face="Tahoma">Hi all,<br>
      <br>
      <a
href="https://www.itu.int/rec/dologin_pub.asp?lang=e&amp;id=T-REC-G.8080-201202-I%21%21PDF-E&amp;type=items">ITU-T

        Recommendation G.8080</a> is probably the most appropriate
      reference as far as the existing UNI definitions are<br>
      concerned from a CCAMP perspective. The OIF UNI/E-NNI work was
      based on the architecture and definition of the<br>
      UNI/E-NNI reference points in G.8080.<br>
      <br>
      Please note that there is no UNI protocol defined to convey
<b>reachability

      </b>information - the assumption was that this<br>
      information needs to be configured on the CE device (UNI-C side).
      A protocol for conveying this information is<br>
      certainly something that can be considered as a future add-on.
      Policy rules are required on the network side of the<br>
      UNI as to what reachbility information should be provided to a
      specific CE device (--&gt;VPNs). <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Dieter<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 07.11.2013 22:33, Zhangxian (Xian)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:C636AF2FA540124E9B9ACB5A6BECCE6B263E04AB@szxeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <style id="owaParaStyle">P {
	MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px
}
</style>
      <div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
        #000000;font-size: 10pt;">
        <p>Thank you, Oscar. It indeed helps me to understand the UNI
          better. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Previously&nbsp;I thought the UNI defintion would
include&nbsp;allowing
          for reachability information across this interface. Clearly,
          it DOES NOT from the text you provide below. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>So, i&nbsp;double-checked RFC4208, it turns out that this
          "reachability information" is mentioned when talking about
          overlay model: </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>" In the overlay model, the core-nodes act more as a closed
          system. The edge-nodes do not participate <br>
          &nbsp; in the routing protocol instance that runs among the core
          nodes; in&nbsp;particular, the edge-nodes are unaware </p>
        <p>of the topology of the core-nodes.&nbsp; There may, however, be a
          routing protocol interaction between<br>
          &nbsp;&nbsp; a core-node and an edge-node for the exchange of
          reachability&nbsp;information to other edge-nodes."<br>
        </p>
        <p>Hope&nbsp;this helps a bit on clarification and ongoing
          discussion. </p>
        <p>&nbsp;</p>
        <p>Regards,</p>
        <p>Xian</p>
        <hr tabindex="-1">
        <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000;
          FONT-SIZE: 16px">
          <div style="DIRECTION: ltr" id="divRpF416998"><font
              color="#000000" face="Tahoma"
size="2"><b>&#21457;&#20214;&#20154;:</b> <a
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>
              [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
               
href="mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org">ccamp-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              &#20195;&#34920; Oscar Gonz&aacute;lez de Dios [<a
                class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                href="mailto:ogondio@tid.es">ogondio@tid.es</a>]<br>
              <b>&#21457;&#36865;&#26102;&#38388;:</b>
2013&#24180;11&#26376;8&#26085; 3:25<br>
              <b>&#25910;&#20214;&#20154;:</b> CCAMP<br>
              <b>&#20027;&#39064;:</b> [CCAMP] Input for Terminology
discussion: UNI
              definitions across different SDOs<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px">
              <div>
                <div>Hi all,</div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <span style="WHITE-SPACE:
                pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>As inputs for the
              terminology discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow a set of
              definitions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a
              short reference, they are easy to find with the number):</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE:
                14px" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.807<span
                style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">] (ITU-T): "</span>User-Network
              Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional
              signaling interface between service requester and service
              provider control plane entities."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>In the same document:
              "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the following
              information elements:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>End-point name and
              address;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Authentication and
              connection admission control;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">? <span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"> </span>Connection service
              messages.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8081] (ITU-T):
              "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An
              UNI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service
              requester and service provider control plane
entities.&#8221;<span
                style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"> </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[G.8080] (ITU-T):
&#8220;UNI</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Information flows expected
              across the UNI reference point support the following
              functions:</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- call control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- resource discovery</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection control</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>- connection selection.</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Note, there is no routing
              function associated with the UNI reference point.
              Additional functions such as security and authentication
              of calls, or enhanced directory services,</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)">may be added to this basic set of functions."</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
                class="Apple-tab-span"></span>[RFC3717]: &#8220;The
              client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a
              service boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and
              the optical network. &nbsp;The client and server (optical
              network) are essentially two different roles: the client
              role requests a service connection from a server; the
              server role establishes the connection to fulfill the
              service request &#8212; provided all relevant admission control
              conditions are satisfied.&#8221;</div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]:
UNI:
                &#8220;The service control interface between a client device
                and the transport network.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp;UNI-C: &#8221;The
logical
                entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client
                device side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>UNI-N:

                &#8220;The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on
                the transport network side.&#8221;</font></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
            </div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;[MEF 11]: &#8220;The
                MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions
                between Subscribers of&nbsp;</font><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">MEF defined&nbsp;</font><span
                style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif">services and the
                MEN Service Provider.</span><font
                face="Calibri,sans-serif">&#8221;</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Hope

                it helps in the discussions,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Best

                Regards,</font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </font></div>
            <div><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
                  style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"
class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Oscar</font></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif"><br>
              </span></div>
            <div style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,sans-serif; COLOR:
              rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 14px"> <span style="WHITE-SPACE:
                pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span></div>
            <br>
            <hr> <font color="gray" face="Arial" size="1"><br>
              Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario.
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        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
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href="mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a>
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</pre>
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Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:17:49 -0800
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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To: Zafar Ali <zali@cisco.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
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Subject: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Zafar,
	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of
an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
stated that this wasn't the case.

FWIW:

Your document says:

    0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                                                               |
   ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
   |                                                               |
   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


RFC4872 says
      0                   1                   2                   3
      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |                           Reserved                            |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
explicitly in any case.

Lou

From zhang.xian@huawei.com  Thu Nov  7 18:23:11 2013
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From: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
To: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: comments to draft-gandhi-ccamp-gmpls-restoration-lsp-01
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 02:22:57 +0000
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Subject: [CCAMP] comments to draft-gandhi-ccamp-gmpls-restoration-lsp-01
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Hi, All,=20

    Due to short of time, I post my questions to this draft here (based on =
the slides). =20

1) what is the scope of this document? From the examples given, it seems to=
 me only to end to end case. If it is not the intention, it would be good t=
o clarify.=20

2) Page 3 of the slides, last sentence.=20
I do not think it is accurate. A restoration LSP can be established before =
failure as specified in RFC4872, unless you are targeting fully dynamic rer=
outing. So i think the following text in the draft need modification:

"Restoration LSP differs from a secondary LSP
   in the way that secondary LSP does not reserve resources in the data
   plane and is not able to carry any traffic until it is refreshed
   whereas restoration LSP does reserve resources and is able to carry
   traffic."

3) Page 8, the note.=20
Could you point the exact piece of text saying this in RFC6689? At the mome=
nt, i cannot find it, thus cannot judge the need of this draft.=20

4) Page 9:=20
4.1: It seems to me the draft are using the bit P different from what it is=
 defined in  RFC4872. Since it is a BCP draft, i do not expect this. Please=
 clarify.=20

4.2: not sure why assign a restoration LSP for a protection LSP? If the int=
ention is to protection two failures, assign one protection and one restora=
tion LSP for the working LSP is probably a better way to do. Since the fail=
ure of protection LSP does not won't trigger any update in RSVP-TE.=20


Regards,
Xian =

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From: Gert Grammel <ggrammel@juniper.net>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Oscar_Gonz=E1lez_de_Dios?= <ogondio@tid.es>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across different SDOs
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 02:28:49 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across	different SDOs
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Adding the detail I mentioned on the mic:

[G.8080](ITU-T) "NOTE - The route query interface does not apply for the CC=
 interface at the UNI reference point."

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of O=
scar Gonz=E1lez de Dios
Sent: 07 November 2013 20:26
To: CCAMP
Subject: [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions across d=
ifferent SDOs

Hi all,

As inputs for the terminology discussions, please find bellow a set of defi=
nitions for UNI coming from different SDOs (with a short reference, they ar=
e easy to find with the number):

[G.807] (ITU-T): "User-Network Interface for the control plane (UNI): A bid=
irectional signaling interface between service requester and service provid=
er control plane entities."

In the same document: "UNI: This interface supports, as a minimum, the foll=
owing information elements:
?
End-point name and address;
?
Authentication and connection admission control;
?
Connection service messages."

[G.8081] (ITU-T): "user-network interface for the control plane (UNI): An U=
NI is a bidirectional signaling interface between service requester and ser=
vice provider control plane entities."

[G.8080] (ITU-T): "UNI
Information flows expected across the UNI reference point support the follo=
wing functions:
- call control
- resource discovery
- connection control
- connection selection.
Note, there is no routing function associated with the UNI reference point.=
 Additional functions such as security and authentication of calls, or enha=
nced directory services,
may be added to this basic set of functions."

[RFC3717]: "The client-optical internetwork interface (UNI) represents a se=
rvice boundary between the client (e.g., IP router) and the optical network=
.  The client and server (optical network) are essentially two different ro=
les: the client role requests a service connection from a server; the serve=
r role establishes the connection to fulfill the service request - provided=
 all relevant admission control conditions are satisfied."

   [OIF UNI1.0]: UNI: "The service control interface between a client devic=
e and the transport network."
 UNI-C: "The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on the client de=
vice side."
UNI-N: "The logical entity that terminates UNI signalling on the transport =
network side."

       [MEF 11]: "The MEF UNI is a reference point for all interactions bet=
ween Subscribers of MEF defined services and the MEN Service Provider."

Hope it helps in the discussions,

Best Regards,

Oscar





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<p class=3D"Note"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Adding the deta=
il I mentioned on the mic:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Note"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[G.8080](ITU-T)=
 &#8222;</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">NOTE &#8211; The route query interface =
does not apply for the CC interface at the UNI reference point.&#8221;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org=
]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Oscar Gonz=E1lez de Dios<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 07 November 2013 20:26<br>
<b>To:</b> CCAMP<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CCAMP] Input for Terminology discussion: UNI definitions a=
cross different SDOs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">As inputs for the terminolo=
gy discussions,&nbsp;please find bellow a set of definitions for UNI coming=
 from different SDOs (with a short reference, they are easy to
 find with the number):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[G.807] (ITU-T): &quot;User-Network Interfac=
e for the control plane (UNI): A bidirectional signaling interface between =
service requester and service provider control plane entities.&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">In the same document: &quot;UNI: This interf=
ace supports, as a minimum, the following information elements:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">?
<span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">End-point name and address;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">?
<span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Authentication and connection admission cont=
rol;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">?
<span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Connection service messages.&#8221;<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[G.8081] (ITU-T): &quot;user-network interfa=
ce for the control plane (UNI): An UNI is a bidirectional signaling interfa=
ce between service requester and service provider control plane
 entities.&#8221;<span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[G.8080] (ITU-T): &#8220;UNI<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Information flows expected across the UNI re=
ference point support the following functions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">- call control<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">- resource discovery<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">- connection control<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">- connection selection.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Note, there is no routing function associate=
d with the UNI reference point. Additional functions such as security and a=
uthentication of calls, or enhanced directory services,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">may be added to this basic set of functions.=
&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[RFC3717]: &#8220;The client-optical interne=
twork interface (UNI) represents a service boundary between the client (e.g=
., IP router) and the optical network. &nbsp;The client and server
 (optical network) are essentially two different roles: the client role req=
uests a service connection from a server; the server role establishes the c=
onnection to fulfill the service request &#8212; provided all relevant admi=
ssion control conditions are satisfied.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp;[OIF UNI1.0]: UNI: &#8220;The service contr=
ol interface between a client device and the transport network.&#8221;</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;UNI-C: &#8221;The logical entity that terminates U=
NI signalling on the client device side.&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">UNI-N: &#8220;The logical entity that terminates UNI sig=
nalling on the transport network side.&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[MEF 11]: &#8220;The MEF UNI =
is a reference point for all interactions between Subscribers of&nbsp;MEF d=
efined&nbsp;services and the MEN Service Provider.&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Hope it helps in the discussions,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Best Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">Oscar</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ari=
al&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:gray"><br>
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario. Puede consultar nu=
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ace situado m=E1s abajo.<br>
This message is intended exclusively for its addressee. We only send and re=
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From ramon.casellas@cttc.es  Thu Nov  7 18:32:50 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] upstream label and label symmetry
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All,

If I may, just my 2 cents, and trying to summarize the main raised 
points. For people working on GMPLS for optical networks it is a common 
requirement.

* Use case: for example, transparent WSON, it is required to fulfil the 
wavelength continuity constraint (WCC); likewise, although the optical 
receiver/photodetector may be broadband it is a common requirement that 
both labels (that are contiguous due to the WCC) are the same 
(symmetry). Someone put it better than me [2] including our soon to be 
ex-secretary:

 > Title   : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional Lightpath with
 >           the Same Wavelength
 > Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King
 > Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt
 >
 > Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the case of
 > optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it would be
 > necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each
 > direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the same
 > wavelength on both directions would be advantageous.  For instance,
 > some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength
 > simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes are
 > equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders.
 >
 > This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for
 > bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same wavelength on
 > both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in [RFC4420],
 > the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the low cost
 > configuration at users' optical end nodes.





* IMHO it is true that a node needs to cross-connect before forwarding 
the PATH message downtream: RFC3473
"3.1. Procedures

    support bidirectional LSPs an Upstream_Label object is added to the
    Path message.  The Upstream_Label object MUST indicate a label that
    is valid for forwarding at the time the Path message is sent.

    When a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is received,
    the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is acceptable.
    If the label is not acceptable,(...)

    An intermediate node must also allocate a label on the outgoing
    interface and establish internal data paths before filling in an
    outgoing upstream label and propagating the Path message

* The fact that the label is set to some value 0xFFF...FF and that the 
node must cross-connect justifies the need for a two step process as 
Dieter mentioned.


In short, IMHO there is a requirement to request symmetrical labels.  
This problem has been mentioned in the past, you may want to check

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-oki-ccamp-upstream-labelset-00

[2] draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt
      see http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.ccamp/6023

Thanks

Ramon


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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    All,<br>
    <br>
    If I may, just my 2 cents, and trying to summarize the main raised
    points. For people working on GMPLS for optical networks it is a
    common requirement.<br>
    <br>
    * Use case: for example, transparent WSON, it is required to fulfil
    the wavelength continuity constraint (WCC); likewise, although the
    optical receiver/photodetector may be broadband it is a common
    requirement that both labels (that are contiguous due to the WCC)
    are the same (symmetry). Someone put it better than me [2] including
    our soon to be ex-secretary:<br>
    <br>
    &gt; TitleÂ Â  : Extensions to GMPLS RSVP-TE for Bidirectional
    Lightpath with<br>
    &gt;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  the Same Wavelength<br>
    &gt; Authors : S. Xu, H. Harai, and D. King<br>
    &gt; Filename: draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt<br>
    &gt; Â Â Â  <br>
    &gt; Abstract: For bidirectional lightpaths provisioning, in the
    case of<br>
    &gt; optical nodes that do not support wavelength conversion, it
    would be<br>
    &gt; necessary to use the same wavelength along the route on each<br>
    &gt; direction. In certain optical network scenarios, the use of the
    same<br>
    &gt; wavelength on both directions would be advantageous.Â  For
    instance,<br>
    &gt; some type of ROADMs may add/drop the same wavelength<br>
    &gt; simultaneously. In another case, the users' optical end nodes
    are<br>
    &gt; equipped with fixed-wavelength transponders.<br>
    &gt; <br>
    &gt; This document describes extensions to RSVP-TE signaling for <br>
    &gt; bidirectional wavelength lightpaths that require the same
    wavelength on <br>
    &gt; both directions. By using an LSP_ATTRIBUTES object defined in
    [RFC4420], <br>
    &gt; the extensions enable the new type lightpaths to support the
    low cost <br>
    &gt; configuration at users' optical end nodes.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    * IMHO it is true that a node needs to cross-connect before
    forwarding the PATH message downtream: RFC3473<br>
    "3.1. Procedures<br>
    <br>
    Â Â  support bidirectional LSPs an Upstream_Label object is added to
    the<br>
    Â Â  Path message.Â  The Upstream_Label object MUST indicate a label
    that<br>
    Â Â  is valid for forwarding at the time the Path message is sent.<br>
    <br>
    Â Â  When a Path message containing an Upstream_Label object is
    received,<br>
    Â Â  the receiver first verifies that the upstream label is
    acceptable.<br>
    Â Â  If the label is not acceptable,(...)<br>
    <br>
    Â Â  An intermediate node must also allocate a label on the outgoing<br>
    Â Â  interface and establish internal data paths before filling in an<br>
    Â Â  outgoing upstream label and propagating the Path message<br>
    <br>
    * The fact that the label is set to some value 0xFFF...FF and that
    the node must cross-connect justifies the need for a two step
    process as Dieter mentioned.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    In short, IMHO there is a requirement to request symmetrical
    labels.Â  This problem has been mentioned in the past, you may want
    to check <br>
    <br>
    [1]
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    <a
      href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-oki-ccamp-upstream-labelset-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-oki-ccamp-upstream-labelset-00</a><br>
    <br>
    [2] draft-xu-rsvpte-bidir-wave-00.txt <br>
    Â Â Â Â  see
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    <a href="http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.ccamp/6023">http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.ccamp/6023</a><br>
    <br>
    Thanks<br>
    <br>
    Ramon<br>
    <br>
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 21:11:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hi Lou-=20

You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that
we are using different ctype.

We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG on
this draft.=20

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar

-----Original Message-----
From: "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>
Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps

>Zafar,
>	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of
>an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
>stated that this wasn't the case.
>
>FWIW:
>
>Your document says:
>
>    0                   1                   2                   3
>    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>   |                                                               |
>   ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
>   |                                                               |
>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>
>RFC4872 says
>      0                   1                   2                   3
>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |                           Reserved                            |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
>Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
>explicitly in any case.
>
>Lou


From zali@cisco.com  Fri Nov  8 13:12:04 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: Process question on draft-ali-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00 
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 21:11:43 +0000
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Subject: [CCAMP] Process question on draft-ali-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00
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--_000_CEA26D9C820A2zaliciscocom_
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Hi Adrian-

We had a question for you during CCAMP meeting on http://tools.ietf.org/htm=
l/draft-ali-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00. As G.Sup43 is a supplem=
entary document, Lou mentioned that CCAMP can assign code points but the dr=
aft cannot be standard track (would either need to be experimental or BCP).=
 To me experimental sounds a better fit. What type of document this draft n=
eeds to be? Please advise.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

--_000_CEA26D9C820A2zaliciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; ">
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
Hi Adrian-&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri,sans-serif">We had a question for you during CCA=
MP meeting on&nbsp;</font><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-c=
camp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali=
-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00</a>.
<span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">As&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "=
>G.Sup43</span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: =
14px; ">&nbsp;is a supplementary document,&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-=
family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">Lou
 mentioned that CCAMP can assign code points but the draft cannot be standa=
rd track (would either need to be experimental or BCP). To me experimental =
sounds a better fit. What type of document this draft needs to be?&nbsp;</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; ">Ple=
ase
 advise.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-s=
ize: 14px; ">
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEA26D9C820A2zaliciscocom_--

From lberger@labn.net  Fri Nov  8 13:18:11 2013
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Process question on draft-ali-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00
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Zafar,
	Experimental.

But of course that's assuming the WG agrees to take on this document.

Lou

On 11/08/2013 04:11 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Adrian- 
> 
> We had a question for you during CCAMP meeting
> on http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ali-ccamp-additional-signal-type-g709v3-00.
> As G.Sup43 is a supplementary document, Lou mentioned that CCAMP can
> assign code points but the draft cannot be standard track (would either
> need to be experimental or BCP). To me experimental sounds a better fit.
> What type of document this draft needs to be? Please advise. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Regards … Zafar


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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Zafar,
	Your document says 2, i.e., is incompatible with existing implementations.

Lou

On 11/08/2013 04:11 PM, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Lou- 
> 
> You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that
> we are using different ctype.
> 
> We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG on
> this draft. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Regards Š Zafar
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>
> Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
> 
>> Zafar,
>> 	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of
>> an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
>> stated that this wasn't the case.
>>
>> FWIW:
>>
>> Your document says:
>>
>>    0                   1                   2                   3
>>    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>   |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>   |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>   |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>   |                                                               |
>>   ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
>>   |                                                               |
>>   +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>>
>> RFC4872 says
>>      0                   1                   2                   3
>>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>     |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>     |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>     |                           Reserved                            |
>>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>
>> Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
>> explicitly in any case.
>>
>> Lou
> 
> 


From zali@cisco.com  Fri Nov  8 19:58:00 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
Thread-Index: AQHO2+75nyh5MwjjqEemfNXW9E7a+JobcMqA
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 03:57:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi Zhang:=20

Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the
PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16 bit path
keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.


The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the (path
key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we call such
PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the solution is not
scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path info) states. Such
limitations and requirements need to be clearly stated in the draft.

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Hi, all,
>
>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
>
>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
>"
>.......
>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and
>provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the
>latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the LSR
>that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In
>both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to
>diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
>"
>
>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw
>information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00
>incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and let us
>know what you think.
>
>Cheers,
>Xian


From acee.lindem@ericsson.com  Sat Nov  9 12:59:30 2013
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From: Acee Lindem <acee.lindem@ericsson.com>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"
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Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>, "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"
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Hi Daniele,
The changes look good to me and I'm happy with the draft. You are correct t=
hat RFC 6837 is the wrong reference. Sorry for the confusion. I meant that =
RFC 6827 is a good model for a  "Security Considerations" sections in a GMP=
LS specific draft. Of course, you'd remove the text specific to ASON and re=
place it with OTN.


9.  Security Considerations

   This document specifies the contents and processing of OSPFv2 TE LSAs
   [RFC3630] and [RFC4202].  The TE LSA extensions defined in this
   document are not used for Shortest Path First (SPF) computation and
   have no direct effect on IP routing.  Additionally, ASON routing
   domains are delimited by the usual administrative domain boundaries.

   Any mechanisms used for securing the exchange of normal OSPF LSAs can
   be applied equally to all TE LSAs used in the ASON context.
   Authentication of OSPFv2 LSA exchanges (such as OSPF cryptographic
   authentication [RFC2328] [RFC5709]) can be used to provide
   significant protection against active attacks.  [RFC5709] defines a
   mechanism for authenticating OSPFv2 packets by making use of the
   Hashed Message Authentication Code (HMAC) algorithm in conjunction
   with the SHA family of cryptographic hash functions.

   RCs implementing export/import of ASON routing information between
   RAs MUST also include policy control of both the maximum amount of
   information advertised between RAs and the maximum rate at which it
   is advertised.  This is to isolate the consequences of an RC being
   compromised to the RAs to which that subverted RC is attached.

   The "Analysis of OSPF Security According to KARP Design Guide"
   [OSPF-SEC] provides a comprehensive analysis of OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
   security relative to the requirements specified in [RFC6518].


Thanks,
Acee

From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com<mailto:daniele.ce=
ccarelli@ericsson.com>>
Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:35 AM
To: Ericsson <acee.lindem@ericsson.com<mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com>>
Cc: "draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-cc=
amp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@=
tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>>, =
"rtg-dir@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>" <rtg-dir@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-di=
r@ietf.org>>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>, "rtg-ads@tools=
.ietf.org<mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>" <rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org<mailto:rt=
g-ads@tools.ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Gen=
eralized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"

Hi Acee,

Please find the version solving (hopefully) the last issues attached. It wi=
ll be updated on Nov 4th.

Also, please find my comments in line.

Many thanks
Daniele


From: Acee Lindem
Sent: luned=EC 28 ottobre 2013 17:01
To: Daniele Ceccarelli
Cc: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-cca=
mp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>; rtg-dir@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.=
org>; CCAMP; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org<mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Gen=
eralized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"

Hi Daniele,
I looked at the update and it is greatly improved. I'd still recommend the =
following issues be addressed.


1.      In section 4, you state the malformed LSA, TLV, or Sub-TLV  is igno=
red. Since this specification describes sub-TLVs, does that imply that only=
 the sub-TLVs are ignored when malformed? This is how I'd interpret it.


[[DC]] correct. Fixed as you suggested below in 369,373c367,370, just chang=
ed a bit to reflect the fact that only sub-TLVs are defined in this documen=
t:

    When a received LSA includes a sub-TLV not formatted accordingly to the=
 precise
    specifications in this document, the problem SHOULD be logged
    and the wrongly formatted sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for
    path computation.




2.      In examples where you used "X" to denote that the field is not appl=
icable, you should state that. Or at least state it somewhere.



[[DC]] OK.

T, S and TS granularity fields are not relevant to this example (filled wit=
h Xs)

Also some edits on the new text:


130c130,131
<    provided in [OTN-INFO].
---
>    provided in [OTN-INFO].  The reader is assumed to be familiar with
>    both of these documents.
136,138d136
<    The reader is supposed to be familiar with OTN framework [OTN-FWK]
<    and GMPLS evaluation against OTN [OTN-INFO].
<
320c318
<    is shown in the table below (please note that there are 1000 bits in
---
>    are shown in the table below (please note that there are 1000 bits in
369,373c367,370
<    In case a recived LSA is not formatted accordingly to the
<    requirements indicated in this document, the problem SHOULD be logged
<    and the wrongly formatted LSA, TLV or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for
<    the path computation until a newer version correctly formatted is
<    received.
---
>    When a received LSA is not formatted accordingly to the precise
>    specifications in this document, the problem SHOULD be logged
>    and the wrongly formatted LSA, TLV, or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for
>    path computation.
1561c1558
<    flooding frequency.  Moreover the design of the encoding has been
---
>    flooding frequency.  Moreover, the design of the encoding has been
1573c1570
<       priorities is advertised
---
>       priorities are advertised.
1575,1578c1572,1575
<       - With respect of fixed containers, only the number of available
<       containers is advertised instead of available bandwidth so to use
<       only 16 bits per container instead of 32 (as per former GMPLS
<       encoding
---
>       - With respect to fixed containers, only the number of available
>       containers is advertised instead of available bandwidth so that
>       only 16 bits per container are used instead of 32 (as per the
>       former GMPLS encoding).
1580c1577
<    In order to further reduce the amount of data advertised it is
---
>    In order to further reduce the amount of data advertised, it is


Thanks,
Acee
P.S. I still think it would be better not to reference RFC 2154 in the "Sec=
urity Considerations". RFC 6837 has a much better example for OSPF TE than =
RFC 3630.
[[DC]] Reference to RFC2154 removed but I think  RFC6837 is not the one you=
 wanted to point to (A Not-so-novel Endpoint ID (EID) to Routing Locator (R=
LOC) Database).

On Oct 21, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:


Hi Acee,

Since today it is the deadline for draft submission we uploaded a version w=
ith the changes agreed up to now and the ones proposed in line below. Furth=
er modifications, if needed, will be deferred to a new version on Monday No=
v 4th.

Thanks once again for your review

Daniele + Co-authors.

From: Acee Lindem
Sent: mercoled=EC 16 ottobre 2013 22:20
To: Daniele Ceccarelli
Cc: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-cca=
mp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>; rtg-dir@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.=
org>; CCAMP; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org<mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Gen=
eralized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"

Hi Daniele,
See inline.

On Oct 15, 2013, at 4:21 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote:



Hi Acee,

Thanks for the careful review and please find comments/replies in line.

BR
Daniele (&co-authors)

From: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com]
Sent: mercoled=EC 9 ottobre 2013 03:41
To: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-cca=
mp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org>
Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org<mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org>; CCAMP; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.or=
g<mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: RtgDir Review: "Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for General=
ized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks"

Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. Th=
e Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts=
 as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on spec=
ial request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Rout=
ing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please seehttp=
://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/routing.html

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it wo=
uld be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Ca=
ll comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion=
 or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-g709v3-09.txt
Reviewer: Acee Lindem
Review Date: October 15th, 2013
IETF LC End Date: October 16, 2013
Intended Status: Proposed Standard

Summary: The document is missing some key sections and requires some clarif=
ication prior to publication.

Comments:

Major Issues: The document lacks several critical pieces of information.

                 1. There is no discussion of OSPF scaling or flooding freq=
uency. Even if it not expected that G709
                      GMPLS signaling will not present any problems, this n=
eeds to be stated and justified. Refer to
                      section 8 in RFC 6827 for an example of such a discus=
sion.
[[Authors]] How about adding a section saying:
OSPFv2 scalability considerations and requirements are in line with section=
 8 of [RFC6827]. In addition please note that OTN extensions in this docume=
nt have been designed taking into consideration optimization criteria ident=
ified in [OTN-INFO]

It isn't obvious to me that these two extensions are comparable. I think a =
separate section pertaining to the OTN extensions would make more sense.

[[DC]] The following section has been added:


This document does not introduce OSPF scalability issues with respect
   to existing GMPLS encoding and does not require any modification to
   flooding frequency.  Moreover the design of the encoding has been
   carried out taking into account bandwidth optimization, and in
   particular:



      - Only unreserved and MAX LSP Bandwidth related to supported
      priorities is advertised

      - With respect of fixed containers, only the number of available
      containers is advertised instead of available bandwidth so to use
      only 16 bits per container instead of 32 (as per former GMPLS
      encoding

   In order to further reduce the amount of data advertised it is
   RECOMMENDED to bundle component links with homogeneous hierarchies as
   described in [RFC4201] and illustrated in Section 5.6.




                 2. The document includes lots of normative text indicating=
 precisely how sub-TLVs MUST be
                      formatted. However, there is no indication of what th=
e action to be taken if the TLVs do
                      not follow the strict conventions.
[[Authors]] Good comment. Looking at previous OSPF and OSPF-TE drafts we di=
dn=92t find any text on handling of bad TLV formatting. Any suggestion on h=
ow to deal with that is more than welcome.

In the past, I've stated that the problem should be logged and the LSA, TLV=
, or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for TE/GMPLS path computation. It all depends=
 on what makes sense for the encoding violation and at what level it should=
 be resolved. One generic solution would be to NOT use any LSAs with encodi=
ng violations for GMPLS path computation.


[[DC]] This piece of text has been added at the end of section 4:

           In case a recived LSA is not formatted accordingly to the requir=
ements indicated in
           this document, the problem SHOULD be logged and the wrongly form=
atted LSA, TLV or Sub-TLV MUST NOT
              be used for the path computation until a newer version correc=
tly formatted is received.



                 3. The document jumps down into details of G.709 technolog=
y without adequate
                       explanation (particularly in the examples). Either t=
hese details need to be removed or a
                      statement of prerequisite knowledge is required.
[[Authors]] The reader is supposed to have read [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO]. W=
e can add a sentence at the end of the abstract or intro.

This is the minimum.




Minor Issues: The document had a large number of editorial errors.

                 1. The bit numbering on all the figures was off by 1 colum=
n. If you look at RFC 4203,
                      this will be obvious.
[[Author]] Correct. Fixed.
                 2. The table on page 7 is incomprehensible with the given =
columns and headings. Spaces
                      rather than commas in numbers are annoying.


[[Author]] Spaces substituted with commas. As per comment above having read=
 [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO] is a prerequisite.

Does it add anything to this document if one needs to look at OTN-FWK and O=
TN-INFO anyway? It is much less relevant than, say, a discussion of adverti=
sement and scaling ;^)

For example, what does 239/238 mean? Is this 239 or 238 separate tributary =
slots - why is it variable? What does GFP-F mean - it is not defined here.


[[DC]] Table 7 is needed to fill the common header of the ISCD. E.g. when i=
ndicating ODU4, the related max lsp bandwidth in the common header of the I=
SCD needs to be filled with  0x504331E3.

The first and third columns of the table are needed for that, while the sec=
ond one explains how the value is Byte/sec is retrieved (i.e. the nominal b=
it rate of each ODU). The =93239/238=94 does not mean 239 OR 238 but means =
239 divided by 238.

The meaning of GFP-F is explained in the fwk document (defined in G.7041) a=
nd stands for Generic Framing Procedure. In addition to the various ODUs th=
ere are three more ODU types that need to be advertised, namely: i) ODUflex=
 for CBR client signals, ii) ODUflex for GFP-F mapped client signal and iii=
) ODU flex resizable.

                 3. The distinction between TLVs and sub-TLVs is not consis=
tent throughout the document.
                      Again, refer to RFC 6827 for an example of consistent=
 referral.
[[Authors]] Good catch. We=92re defining only sub-tlvs. Fixed.
                 4. Figures 8 and 9 have the T and S fields offset from the=
 bit numbering. Also, it took
                      some time to realize that T1 meant a value of 1.
[[Authors]] T and S were left intentionally to make the reading easier but =
maybe it=92s not the case. Only 0 and 1 are there now.
5. Figures 11-15 are very inconsistent in that these are examples yet the v=
alues for T, S, and  sometime TSG are not specified. Rather, the example in=
cludes the letters.

[[Authors]] The focus of those examples is not T,S and TSG but e.g. ODUflex=
 advertisement, single stage muxing etc. For each example there is a discla=
imer saying: =93T, S and TS granularity fields are not relevant to this exa=
mple=94.

Then wouldn't X's be more relevant than missing discrete values and field l=
abels in the same figure?

[[DC]] OK. X=92s used.




                 6. Security section - RFC 2154 is an experimental RFC that=
 has heretofore never been
                      commercially implemented or deployed. It is time to q=
uit referencing it in draft
                      "Security Considerations".
[[Authors]] How about the following?
OLD

    [RFC3630<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3630>] suggests mechanisms such =
as [RFC2154<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2154>] to protect
   the transmission of this information=85
NEW

    [RFC3630<http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3630>] suggests mechanisms to pr=
otect
   the transmission of this information=85

It would be great with me. There are plenty of reviewers who will nit pick =
the security section...





  Nits:
1.       The proper punctuation is "i.e., " and "e.g. ,".
[[Authors]] OK
Also, sentences should not start with either.
                      See http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/rfc-sty=
le
2.       Page 7, "Switching Capability-Specific Information (SCSI)?
[[Authors]] OK
                 3. Suggest formatting the document so that the figures are=
 on separate pages rather than
                      split across pages.
[[Authors]] I don=92t know how to do that with the .xml file. Maybe this is=
 a comment we can leave for the RFC editor?

Ok. I have been able to do this with

<vspace blankLines=3D"100" />


[[DC]] It works fine with all figures except fig 14. It=92s longer than a p=
age.



3.       Replace all occurrences of "non " with "non-" and do not end lines=
 with "non ".
[[Authors]] OK
                 4. I thought the examples included many run-on sentences t=
hat were hard to parse and lacked
                      needed punctuation. I tried to edit but I'm not even =
sure if I retained the same meaning. You
                      can get a flavor for what I mean by the diffs below.
[[Authors]] OK to all. All modifications you suggest have been implemented.

Thanks - I'll look for the update.

Thanks,
Acee






Thanks,
Acee
132,133c132,133
<    Routing information for Optical Channel Layer (OCh) (i.e. wavelength)
<    is out of the scope of this document.  Please refer to [RFC6163] and
---
>    Routing information for Optical Channel Layer (OCh) (i.e., wavelength)
>    is beyond the scope of this document.  Please refer to [RFC6163] and

157c157
<    As discussed in [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO], OSPF-TE must be extended so
---
>    As discussed in [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO], OSPF-TE must be extended

159c159
<    related to each different ODUj and ODUk/OTUk (Optical Transport Unit)
---
>    of each different ODUj and ODUk/OTUk (Optical Transport Unit)
176c176
<    In the following we will use ODUj to indicate a service type that is
---
>    In the following, we will use ODUj to indicate a service type that is
179c179
<    the OTUk.  Moreover ODUj(S) and ODUk(S) are used to indicate ODUj and
---
>    the OTUk.  Moreover, ODUj(S) and ODUk(S) are used to indicate ODUj and
184c184
<    multiplexing levels.  In the following the term "multiplexing tree"
---
>    multiplexing levels.  In the following, the term "multiplexing tree"
191c191
<    If for example a multiplexing hierarchy like the following one is
---
>    For example, If a multiplexing hierarchy like the following one is
251c251
<    one hop case multiple hop TE-links advertise ODU switching capacity.
---
>    one hop case, multiple hop TE-links advertise ODU switching capacity.
296,297c296,297
<    Both for fixed and flexible ODUs the same switching type and encoding
<    values MUST be used.  When Switching Capability and Encoding fields
---
>    The same switching type and encoding values must be used for both fixe=
d
>    and flexible ODUs.  When Switching Capability and Encoding fields
303,304c303,304
<    The MAX LSP Bandwidth field is used according to [RFC4203]: i.e. 0 <=
=3D
<    MAX LSP Bandwidth <=3D ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those on
---
>    The MAX LSP Bandwidth field is used according to [RFC4203]: i.e., 0 <=
=3D
>    MAX LSP Bandwidth <=3D ODUk/OTUk, and intermediate values are those on
306,307c306,307
<    E.g. in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP
<    Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others
---
>    For example, in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX=
 LSP
>    Bandwidth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others,
397,398c397,398
<    Procedure-Frame mapped (GFP-F) resizable and 22 - ODUflex (GFP-F) non
<    resizable.  Each MUST always be advertised in separate Type 2 TLVs as
---
>    Procedure-Frame mapped (GFP-F) resizable and 22 - ODUflex (GFP-F)
>    non-resizable.  Each MUST always be advertised in separate Type 2 TLVs=
 as
400c400
<    both GFP-F resizable and non resizable (i.e. 21 and 22) are
---
>    both GFP-F resizable and non-resizable (i.e. 21 and 22) are
535c535
<       (i.e. a non OTN client).
---
>       (i.e., a non-OTN client).
540c540
<       - Priority (8 bits): a bitmap used to indicate which priorities
---
>       - Priority (8 bits): A bitmap used to indicate which priorities
542,543c542,543
<       leftmost bit representing priority level 0 (i.e. the highest) and
<       the rightmost bit representing priority level 7 (i.e. the lowest).
---
>       leftmost bit representing priority level 0 (i.e., the highest) and
>       the rightmost bit representing priority level 7 (i.e., the lowest).
666c666
<       Figure 5: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T0
---
>       Figure 5: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T0
676,678c676,678
<    At time T1 an ODU3 at priority 2 is set-up, so for priority 0 the MAX
<    LSP Bandwidth is still equal to the ODU4 bandwidth, while for
<    priorities from 2 to 7 (excluding the non supported ones) the MAX LSP
---
>    At time T1, an ODU3 at priority 2 is set-up, so for priority 0 the
>    MAX LSP Bandwidth is still equal to the ODU4 bandwidth, while for
>    priorities from 2 to 7 (excluding the non-supported ones) the MAX LSP
680c680
<    next supported ODUj in the hierarchy is ODU3.The advertisement is
---
>    next supported ODUj in the hierarchy is ODU3. The advertisement is
710c710
<       Figure 6: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T1
---
>       Figure 6: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T1
712,714c712,714
<    At time T2 an ODU2 at priority 4 is set-up.  The first ODU3 is no
<    longer available since T1 as it was kept by the ODU3 LSP, while the
<    second is no more available and just 3 ODU2 are left in it.  ODU2 is
---
>    At time T2, an ODU2 at priority 4 is set-up.  The first ODU3 is no
>    longer available since T1, as it was kept by the ODU3 LSP, while the
>    second is no more available and just 3 ODU2s are left in it.  ODU2 is
758c758
<       Figure 7: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T2
---
>       Figure 7: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T2
762c762
<    In this example an interface with Tributary Slot Type 1.25Gbps and
---
>    In this example, an interface with Tributary Slot Type 1.25Gbps and
766c766
<    switched or terminated, the ODU2 can only be terminated and the ODU1
---
>    switched or terminated, the ODU2 can only be terminated, and the ODU1
768c768
<    advertised to support ODU0 the value of is "ignored" (TS
---
>    advertised to support ODU0, the value of is "ignored" (TS
770c770
<    interface a single ISCD is used and its format is as follows:
---
>    interface, a single ISCD is used and its format is as follows:
819c819
<    In this example two interfaces with homogeneous hierarchies but
---
>    In this example, two interfaces with homogeneous hierarchies but
822,824c822,824
<    one a G.709-2012 interface with fallback procedure disabled (TS
<    granularity=3D3).  Both of them support ODU1->ODU2->ODU3 hierarchy and
<    priorities 0 and 3.  T and S bits values are not relevant to this
---
>    one supports G.709-2012 interface with fallback procedure disabled
>    (TS granularity=3D3).  Both of them support ODU1->ODU2->ODU3 hierarchy
>    and priorities 0 and 3.  T and S bits values are not relevant to this
826,827c826,827
<    interfaces two different ISCDs are used and the format of their SCSIs
<    is as follows:
---
>    interfaces, two different ISCDs are used and the format of their
>    SCSIs is as follows:
903,908c903,908
<    with different exported TS granularity MUST be considered as non
<    homogenous hierarchies is the case in which an H-LPS and the client
<    LSP are terminated on the same egress node.  What can happen is that
<    a loose Explicit Route Object (ERO) is used at the hop where the
<    signaled LSP is nested into the Hierarchical-LSP (H-LSP) (penultimate
<    hop of the LSP).
---
>    with different exported TS granularity MUST be considered as
>    non-homogenous hierarchies. This is the case in which an H-LPS and
>    the client LSP are terminated on the same egress node.  What can
>    happen is that a loose Explicit Route Object (ERO) is used at the
>    hop where the signaled LSP is nested into the Hierarchical-LSP (H-LSP)
>    (penultimate hop of the LSP).
912,915c912,915
<    if2.  In case the H-LSP on if1 exports a TS=3D1.25Gbps and if2 a
<    TS=3D2.5Gbps and the service LSP being signaled needs a 1.25Gbps
<    tributary slot, only the H-LSP on if1 can be used to reach node E.
<    For further details please see section 4.1 of the [OTN-INFO].
---
>    if2.  In this case, the H-LSP on if1 exports a TS=3D1.25Gbps, if2 a
>    TS=3D2.5Gbps, the service LSP being signaled needs a 1.25Gbps
>    tributary slot, and only the H-LSP on if1 can be used to reach node E.
>    For further details, please see section 4.1 of the [OTN-INFO].
939,943c939,943
<    In this example the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3 hierarchy is
<    shown.  In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP Bandwidth needs
<    to be advertised and in some cases also information about the
<    Unreserved bandwidth could be useful.  The amount of Unreserved
<    bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many ODUflex LSP
---
>    In this example, the advertisement of an ODUflex->ODU3 hierarchy is
>    shown.  In the case of ODUflex advertisement, the MAX LSP Bandwidth
>    needs to be advertised and, in some cases, information about the
>    Unreserved bandwidth could also be useful.  The amount of Unreserved
>    bandwidth does not give a clear indication of how many ODUflex LSPs
959,962c959,962
<    Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each.  In case 50Gbps of Unreserved
<    Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and 3 ODUflex
<    LSPs of 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only one can be
<    restored along Link B and it is probable (but not sure) that two of
---
>    Bandwidth equal to 10 Gbps each.  In the case where 50Gbps of Unreserv=
ed
>    Bandwidth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B, and 3 ODUflex
>    LSPs of 10 GBps each have to be restored, for sure only one can be
>    restored along Link B and it is probable, but not certain, that two of
966c966
<    In the case of ODUflex advertisement the Type 2 Bandwidth TLV is
---
>    In the case of ODUflex advertisement, the Type 2 Bandwidth TLV is
1073c1073
<    simplicity we assume that also in this case only priorities 0 and 3
---
>    simplicity, we also assume that only priorities 0 and 3
1294c1294
<    In this example 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS
---
>    In this example, 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS
1388c1388
<    In this example 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS
---
>    In this example, 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS
1506c1506
<    All implementations of this document MAY support also advertisement
---
>    All implementations of this document MAY also support advertisement
1518c1518
<    based on policy and is out of scope of the document.  This enables
---
>    based on policy and beyond the scope of this document.  This enables
1537c1537
<    [RFC5920] .
---
>    [RFC5920].








--_000_94A203EA12AECE4BA92D42DBFFE0AE47030D94A5eusaamb101erics_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-ID: <050FC0571DFF084099993E4FD6BC6C39@ericsson.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Hi Daniele,&nbsp;</div>
<div>The changes look good to me and I'm happy with the draft. You are corr=
ect that RFC 6837 is the wrong reference. Sorry for the confusion. I meant =
that RFC 6827 is a good model for a &nbsp;&quot;Security Considerations&quo=
t; sections in a GMPLS specific draft. Of course,
 you'd remove the text specific to ASON and replace it with OTN.&nbsp;</div=
>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<pre>9.  Security Considerations

   This document specifies the contents and processing of OSPFv2 TE LSAs
   [RFC3630] and [RFC4202].  The TE LSA extensions defined in this
   document are not used for Shortest Path First (SPF) computation and
   have no direct effect on IP routing.  Additionally, ASON routing
   domains are delimited by the usual administrative domain boundaries.

   Any mechanisms used for securing the exchange of normal OSPF LSAs can
   be applied equally to all TE LSAs used in the ASON context.
   Authentication of OSPFv2 LSA exchanges (such as OSPF cryptographic
   authentication [RFC2328] [RFC5709]) can be used to provide
   significant protection against active attacks.  [RFC5709] defines a
   mechanism for authenticating OSPFv2 packets by making use of the
   Hashed Message Authentication Code (HMAC) algorithm in conjunction
   with the SHA family of cryptographic hash functions.

   RCs implementing export/import of ASON routing information between
   RAs MUST also include policy control of both the maximum amount of
   information advertised between RAs and the maximum rate at which it
   is advertised.  This is to isolate the consequences of an RC being
   compromised to the RAs to which that subverted RC is attached.

   The &quot;Analysis of OSPF Security According to KARP Design Guide&quot;
   [OSPF-SEC] provides a comprehensive analysis of OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
   security relative to the requirements specified in [RFC6518].</pre>
<pre><br></pre>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Acee</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Daniele Ceccarelli &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com">daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.co=
m</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:3=
5 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>Ericsson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
acee.lindem@ericsson.com">acee.lindem@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g70=
9v3@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-o=
spf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.or=
g</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>&gt;, CCAMP &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: RtgDir Review: &quot;T=
raffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control =
of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks&quot;<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi Acee,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Please find the version solving (h=
opefully) the last issues attached. It will be updated on Nov 4<sup>th</sup=
>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Also, please find my comments in l=
ine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Many thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Daniele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-fami=
ly: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> Acee Lindem
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> luned=EC 28 ottobre 2013 17:01<br>
<b>To:</b> Daniele Ceccarelli<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.=
org">draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>; CCAMP; <a href=3D=
"mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">
rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: RtgDir Review: &quot;Traffic Engineering Extensions to =
OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks&qu=
ot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Daniele,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I looked at the update and it is greatly improved. I=
'd still recommend the following issues be addressed.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:33.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7p=
t; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->In section 4, you state the malformed LSA, TLV,=
 or Sub-TLV &nbsp;is ignored. Since this specification describes sub-TLVs, =
does that imply that only the sub-TLVs are ignored when malformed? This is =
how I'd interpret it.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:33.0pt"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] correct. Fixed as you=
 suggested below in 369,373c367,370, just changed a bit to reflect the fact=
 that only sub-TLVs are defined in this
 document:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; When a received LSA includes a sub-TLV not formatted ac=
cordingly to the precise
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;specifications in this document, the problem SHOUL=
D be logged<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "=
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and the wrongly formatted sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for<=
o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; path comp=
utation.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:33.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7p=
t; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><!--[endif]-->In examples where you used &quot;X&quot; to den=
ote that the field is not applicable, you should state that. Or at least st=
ate it somewhere.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:33.0pt"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><b><i><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25); ">[[DC]] OK.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm"><b><i><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25); ">T, S and TS granularity fields are not relevant to this example (fil=
led with Xs)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also some edits on the new text:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">130c130,131<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;provided in [OTN-INFO].<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;provided in [OTN-INFO]. &nbsp;The =
reader is assumed to be familiar with<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;both of these documents.&nbsp;<o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">136,138d136<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;The reader is supposed to be famil=
iar with OTN framework [OTN-FWK]<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;and GMPLS evaluation against OTN [=
OTN-INFO].<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">320c318<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;is shown in the table below (pleas=
e note that there are 1000 bits in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;are shown in the table below (plea=
se note that there are 1000 bits in<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">369,373c367,370<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In case a recived LSA is not forma=
tted accordingly to the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;requirements indicated in this doc=
ument, the problem SHOULD be logged<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;and the wrongly formatted LSA, TLV=
 or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;the path computation until a newer=
 version correctly formatted is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;received.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;When a received LSA is not formatt=
ed accordingly to the precise&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;specifications in this document, t=
he problem SHOULD be logged<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;and the wrongly formatted LSA, TLV=
, or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;path computation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1561c1558<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;flooding frequency. &nbsp;Moreover=
 the design of the encoding has been<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;flooding frequency. &nbsp;Moreover=
, the design of the encoding has been<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1573c1570<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; priorities is advertised<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; priorities are advertised.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1575,1578c1572,1575<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - With respect of fixed co=
ntainers, only the number of available<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; containers is advertised i=
nstead of available bandwidth so to use<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; only 16 bits per container=
 instead of 32 (as per former GMPLS<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; encoding<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - With respect to fixed co=
ntainers, only the number of available<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; containers is advertised i=
nstead of available bandwidth so that<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; only 16 bits per container=
 are used instead of 32 (as per the<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; former GMPLS encoding).<o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">1580c1577<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In order to further reduce the amo=
unt of data advertised it is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In order to further reduce the amo=
unt of data advertised, it is<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">P.S. I still think it would be better not to referen=
ce RFC 2154 in the &quot;Security Considerations&quot;. RFC 6837 has a much=
 better example for OSPF TE than RFC 3630.<o:p></o:p></p>
<h1 style=3D"mso-line-height-alt:0pt"><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; fo=
nt-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]]
</span></i><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-se=
rif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-weight: normal; ">Reference to RFC2154 r=
emoved but I think &nbsp;RFC6837 is not the one you wanted to point to (</s=
pan></i><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: =
black; ">A
 Not-so-novel Endpoint ID (EID) to Routing Locator (RLOC) Database).<o:p></=
o:p></span></h1>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Oct 21, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wro=
te:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi Acee,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Since today it is the deadline for=
 draft submission we uploaded a version with the changes agreed up to now a=
nd the ones proposed in line below.
 Further modifications, if needed, will be deferred to a new version on Mon=
day Nov 4<sup>th</sup>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks once again for your review<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Daniele &#43; Co-authors.</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</spa=
n></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "=
>Acee
 Lindem<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>mercoled=EC =
16 ottobre 2013 22:20<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Daniele Ceccar=
elli<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ccamp-gmp=
ls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org</a>;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nb=
sp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>;
 CCAMP;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto=
:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: RtgDi=
r Review: &quot;Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS=
 (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Daniele,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">See inline.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Oct 15, 2013, at 4:21 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi Acee,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks for the careful review and =
please find comments/replies in line.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">BR<br>
Daniele (&amp;co-authors)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;b=
order-color:initial">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Taho=
ma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</spa=
n></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "=
>Acee
 Lindem [<a href=3D"mailto:acee.lindem@ericsson.com">mailto:acee.lindem@eri=
csson.com</a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>mercoled=EC =
9 ottobre 2013 03:41<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org">draft-ietf-ccamp-gmp=
ls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:rtg-dir@ietf.org">rtg-dir@ietf.org</a>; CCAMP;<span class=3D"apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org">rtg-ads=
@tools.ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RtgDir Re=
view: &quot;Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized MPLS (GM=
PLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks&quot;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer =
for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or rout=
ing-related drafts as they pass through
 IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purp=
ose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more inf=
ormation about the Routing Directorate, please see</span><a href=3D"http://=
www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/routing.html"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5p=
t; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate=
/routing.html</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Although these comments are primarily for the use of the =
Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any =
other IETF Last Call comments that you
 receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the =
draft.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Document:&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">dr=
aft-ietf-ccamp-ospf-g709v3-09.txt</span></b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Reviewer: Acee Lindem</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Review Date: October 15th, 2013</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">IETF LC End Date: October 16, 2013</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Intended Status: Proposed Standard&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Summary: The document is missing some key sections and re=
quires some clarification prior to publication.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Comments:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Major Issues: The document lacks several critical pieces =
of information. &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;1. There is no discussion of OSPF scaling or flooding frequency. Even =
if it not expected that G709&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; GMPLS signaling will not&nbsp;present any problems, thi=
s needs to be stated and justified. Refer to</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; section 8 in RFC 6827 for an example of such a discussi=
on.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] How about adding=
 a section saying:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:30.75pt"><b><i><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">OSPFv2 scalability considerations and requirements are in line with secti=
on 8 of [RFC6827]. In addition please
 note that OTN extensions in this document have been designed taking into c=
onsideration optimization criteria identified in [OTN-INFO]</span></i></b><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It isn't obvious to me that these two extensions are=
 comparable. I think a separate section pertaining to the OTN extensions wo=
uld make more sense.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] The following section=
 has been added:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;=
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">This docume=
nt does not introduce OSPF scalability issues with respect<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; to existing GMPLS encoding and does not require any modificati=
on to<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; flooding frequency.&nbsp; Moreover the design of the encoding =
has been<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; carried out taking into account bandwidth optimization, and in=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; particular:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;=
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm">
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - Only unreserved and MAX LSP Bandwidth related to supp=
orted<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; priorities is advertised<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - With respect of fixed containers, only the=
 number of available<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; containers is advertised instead of availabl=
e bandwidth so to use<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; only 16 bits per container instead of 32 (as=
 per former GMPLS<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; encoding<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; In order to further reduce the amount of data advertised it is=
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; RECOMMENDED to bundle component links with homogeneous hierarc=
hies as<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; described in [RFC4201] and illustrated in Section 5.6.</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;2. The document includes lots of&nbsp;normative text indicating precis=
ely how sub-TLVs&nbsp;MUST be&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; formatted.&nbsp;However, there is no indication of what=
 the action to be taken if the TLVs do</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; not follow the strict conventions.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] Good comment. Lo=
oking at previous OSPF and OSPF-TE drafts we didn=92t find any text on hand=
ling of bad TLV formatting. Any suggestion
 on how to deal with that is more than welcome.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the past, I've stated that the problem should be =
logged and the LSA, TLV, or Sub-TLV MUST NOT be used for TE/GMPLS path comp=
utation. It all depends on what makes sense for the encoding violation and =
at what level it should be resolved.
 One generic solution would be to NOT use any LSAs with encoding violations=
 for GMPLS path computation.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] This piece of text ha=
s been added at the end of section 4:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span></i></b><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In case a recived LSA is not formatted acc=
ordingly to the requirements indicated in</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:5.25pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this document, the problem SHOULD be logge=
d and the wrongly formatted LSA, TLV or Sub-TLV MUST NOT</span></i></b><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; be used for the path com=
putation until a newer version correctly formatted is received.</span></i><=
/b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;3. The document jumps down into details of G.709 technology without ad=
equate&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;explanation (particularly in the examples).&nbsp;=
Either these details need to be removed or a&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; statement of prerequisite knowledge is required.&nbsp;<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] The reader is su=
pposed to have read [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO]. We can add a sentence at the =
end of the abstract or intro.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is the minimum.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Minor Issues: The document had a large number of editoria=
l errors.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;1. The bit numbering on all the figures was off by 1 column. If you lo=
ok at RFC 4203,&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; this will be obvious.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Author]] Correct. Fixed.</=
span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;2. The table on page 7 is incomprehensible with the given columns and =
headings. Spaces&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; rather than commas in numbers are annoying.&nbsp;</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Author]] Spaces substitute=
d with commas. As per comment above having read [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO] is=
 a prerequisite.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Does it add anything to this document if one needs t=
o look at OTN-FWK and OTN-INFO anyway? It is much less relevant than, say, =
a discussion of advertisement and scaling ;^)&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For example, what does 239/238 mean? Is this 239 or =
238 separate tributary slots - why is it variable? What does GFP-F mean - i=
t is not defined here.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11p=
t; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] Tabl=
e 7 is needed to fill the common header of the ISCD. E.g. when indicating O=
DU4, the related max lsp bandwidth in the common header of the ISCD needs t=
o be filled with &nbsp;</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black">0x504331E3.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The first and thi=
rd columns of the table are needed for that, while the second one explains =
how the value is Byte/sec is retrieved (i.e. the nominal bit rate of each O=
DU). The =93239/238=94 does not mean 239 OR 238 but means 239 divided by 23=
8.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; fon=
t-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The meaning of GF=
P-F is explained in the fwk document (defined in G.7041) and stands for Gen=
eric Framing Procedure. In addition to the various ODUs there are three mor=
e ODU types that need to be advertised, namely: i) ODUflex for CBR client s=
ignals, ii) ODUflex for GFP-F mapped client signal and iii) ODU flex resiza=
ble.</span><br clear=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><br clear=
=3D"all" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;3. The distinction between TLVs and sub-TLVs is not consistent through=
out the document.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Again, refer to RFC 6827 for an example of consistent r=
eferral.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] Good catch. We=
=92re defining only sub-tlvs. Fixed.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;4. Figures 8 and 9 have the T and S fields offset from the bit numberi=
ng. Also, it took&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; some time to realize that T1 meant a value of 1.&nbsp;<=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] T and S were lef=
t intentionally to make the reading easier but maybe it=92s not the case. O=
nly 0 and 1 are there now.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:7.5pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">5. Figures 11-15 are very inc=
onsistent in that these are examples yet the values for T, S, and&nbsp; som=
etime TSG are not specified. Rather, the example
 includes the letters. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11p=
t; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]]=
 The focus of those examples is not T,S and TSG but e.g. ODUflex advertisem=
ent, single stage muxing etc. For each example there is a disclaimer saying=
: =93</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">T, S and T=
S granularity fields are not relevant to </span><span style=3D"color:black"=
>this example=94.</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Then wouldn't X's be more relevant than missing disc=
rete values and field labels in the same figure?&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] OK. X=92s used.</span=
></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;6. Security section - RFC 2154 is an experimental RFC that has heretof=
ore never been&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; commercially implemented or deployed.&nbsp;It is time t=
o quit referencing it in draft&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &quot;Security Considerations&quot;.&nbsp;</span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] How about the fo=
llowing?</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">OLD</span></i></b><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc36=
30" title=3D"&quot;Traffic Engineering (TE) Extensions to OSPF Version 2&qu=
ot;">RFC3630</a>] suggests mechanisms such as [<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/rfc2154" title=3D"&quot;OSPF with Digital Signatures&quot;">RFC21=
54</a>] to protect</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; the transmission of =
this information=85</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">NEW</span></i></b><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; f=
ont-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">[<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc36=
30" title=3D"&quot;Traffic Engineering (TE) Extensions to OSPF Version 2&qu=
ot;">RFC3630</a>] suggests mechanisms to protect</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"page-break-before:always"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family: 'Courier New'; color: black; ">&nbsp;&nbsp; the transmission of =
this information=85</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It would be great with me. There are plenty of revie=
wers who will nit pick the security section...&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; Nits:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:7.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">The
 proper punctuation is &quot;i.e., &quot; and &quot;e.g. ,&quot;. &nbsp;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] OK</span></i></b=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Also, sentences should not start with either.&nbsp;</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; See&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://www.rfc-editor.org/rf=
c-style-guide/rfc-style"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Cal=
ibri, sans-serif; ">http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-style-guide/rfc-style</sp=
an></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">2.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:7.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Page
 7, &quot;Switching Capability-Specific Information (SCSI)?&nbsp;</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:43.5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] OK</span></i></b=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;3. Suggest formatting the document so that the figures are on separate=
 pages rather than&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; split across pages.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:43.5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] I don=92t know h=
ow to do that with the .xml file. Maybe this is a comment we can leave for =
the RFC editor?</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ok. I have been able to do this with&nbsp;<o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&lt;vspace blankLines=3D&quot;100&quot; /&gt;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[DC]] It works fine with al=
l figures except fig 14. It=92s longer than a page.</span></i></b><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial;border-width:initial;=
border-color:initial;z-index:auto">
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">3.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:7.0pt">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-conv=
erted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Replace
 all occurrences of &quot;non &quot; with &quot;non-&quot; and do not end l=
ines with &quot;non &quot;.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] OK</span></i></b=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp;4. I thought the examples included many run-on sentences that were har=
d to parse and lacked</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; needed punctuation. I tried to edit but I'm not even su=
re if I retained the same meaning. You&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; can get a flavor for what I mean by the diffs below.&nb=
sp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:56.25pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[[Authors]] OK to all. All m=
odifications you suggest have been implemented.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks - I'll look for the update.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Acee&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 3.0pt;padding:0cm 0c=
m 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">Acee&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">132,133c132,133</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Routin=
g information for Optical Channel Layer (OCh) (i.e. wavelength)</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;is out=
 of the scope of this document. &nbsp;Please refer to [RFC6163] and</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Routin=
g information for Optical Channel Layer (OCh) (i.e., wavelength)</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;is bey=
ond the scope of this document. &nbsp;Please refer to [RFC6163] and</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">157c157</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;As dis=
cussed in [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO], OSPF-TE must be extended so</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;As dis=
cussed in [OTN-FWK] and [OTN-INFO], OSPF-TE must be extended</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">159c159</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;relate=
d to each different ODUj and ODUk/OTUk (Optical Transport Unit)</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;of eac=
h different ODUj and ODUk/OTUk (Optical Transport Unit)</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">176c176</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the=
 following we will use ODUj to indicate a service type that is</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the=
 following, we will use ODUj to indicate a service type that is</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">179c179</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;the OT=
Uk. &nbsp;Moreover ODUj(S) and ODUk(S) are used to indicate ODUj and</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;the OT=
Uk. &nbsp;Moreover, ODUj(S) and ODUk(S) are used to indicate ODUj and</span=
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">184c184</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;multip=
lexing levels. &nbsp;In the following the term &quot;multiplexing tree&quot=
;</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;multip=
lexing levels. &nbsp;In the following, the term &quot;multiplexing tree&quo=
t;</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">191c191</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;If for=
 example a multiplexing hierarchy like the following one is</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;For ex=
ample, If a multiplexing hierarchy like the following one is</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">251c251</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;one ho=
p case multiple hop TE-links advertise ODU switching capacity.</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;one ho=
p case, multiple hop TE-links advertise ODU switching capacity.</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">296,297c296,297</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Both f=
or fixed and flexible ODUs the same switching type and encoding</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;values=
 MUST be used. &nbsp;When Switching Capability and Encoding fields</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;The sa=
me switching type and encoding values must be used for both fixed</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;and fl=
exible ODUs. &nbsp;When Switching Capability and Encoding fields</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">303,304c303,304</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;The MA=
X LSP Bandwidth field is used according to [RFC4203]: i.e. 0 &lt;=3D</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;MAX LS=
P Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk/OTUk and intermediate values are those on</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;The MA=
X LSP Bandwidth field is used according to [RFC4203]: i.e., 0 &lt;=3D</span=
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;MAX LS=
P Bandwidth &lt;=3D ODUk/OTUk, and intermediate values are those on</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">306,307c306,307</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;E.g. i=
n the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;For ex=
ample, in the OTU4 link it could be possible to have ODU4 as MAX LSP</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth for some priorities, ODU3 for others, ODU2 for some others,&nbsp;</span=
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">397,398c397,398</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Proced=
ure-Frame mapped (GFP-F) resizable and 22 - ODUflex (GFP-F) non</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;resiza=
ble. &nbsp;Each MUST always be advertised in separate Type 2 TLVs as</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Proced=
ure-Frame mapped (GFP-F) resizable and 22 - ODUflex (GFP-F)&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;non-re=
sizable. &nbsp;Each MUST always be advertised in separate Type 2 TLVs as</s=
pan></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">400c400</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;both G=
FP-F resizable and non resizable (i.e. 21 and 22) are</span></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;both G=
FP-F resizable and non-resizable (i.e. 21 and 22) are</span></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"IT" s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">535c535</spa=
n></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"IT" s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; (i.e. a non OTN client).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"IT" s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"IT" s=
tyle=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; (i.e., a non-OTN client).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">540c540</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; - Priority (8 bits): a bitmap used to indicate which priorities</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; - Priority (8 bits): A bitmap used to indicate which priorities</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">542,543c542,543</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; leftmost bit representing priority level 0 (i.e. the highest) and</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; the rightmost bit representing priority level 7 (i.e. the lowest).</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; leftmost bit representing priority level 0 (i.e., the highest) and</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; the rightmost bit representing priority level 7 (i.e., the lowest).</span=
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">666c666</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 5: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T0</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 5: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T0</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">676,678c676,678</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;At tim=
e T1 an ODU3 at priority 2 is set-up, so for priority 0 the MAX</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LSP Ba=
ndwidth is still equal to the ODU4 bandwidth, while for</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;priori=
ties from 2 to 7 (excluding the non supported ones) the MAX LSP</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;At tim=
e T1, an ODU3 at priority 2 is set-up, so for priority 0 the</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;MAX LS=
P Bandwidth is still equal to the ODU4 bandwidth, while for</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;priori=
ties from 2 to 7 (excluding the non-supported ones) the MAX LSP</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">680c680</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;next s=
upported ODUj in the hierarchy is ODU3.The advertisement is</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;next s=
upported ODUj in the hierarchy is ODU3. The advertisement is</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">710c710</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 6: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T1</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 6: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T1</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">712,714c712,714</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;At tim=
e T2 an ODU2 at priority 4 is set-up. &nbsp;The first ODU3 is no</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;longer=
 available since T1 as it was kept by the ODU3 LSP, while the</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;second=
 is no more available and just 3 ODU2 are left in it. &nbsp;ODU2 is</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;At tim=
e T2, an ODU2 at priority 4 is set-up. &nbsp;The first ODU3 is no</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;longer=
 available since T1, as it was kept by the ODU3 LSP, while the</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;second=
 is no more available and just 3 ODU2s are left in it. &nbsp;ODU2 is</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">758c758</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 7: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD @T2</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; Figure 7: Example 1 - MAX LSP Bandwidth fields in the ISCD at T2</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">762c762</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example an interface with Tributary Slot Type 1.25Gbps and</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example, an interface with Tributary Slot Type 1.25Gbps and</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">766c766</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;switch=
ed or terminated, the ODU2 can only be terminated and the ODU1</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;switch=
ed or terminated, the ODU2 can only be terminated, and the ODU1</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">768c768</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;advert=
ised to support ODU0 the value of is &quot;ignored&quot; (TS</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;advert=
ised to support ODU0, the value of is &quot;ignored&quot; (TS</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">770c770</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;interf=
ace a single ISCD is used and its format is as follows:</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;interf=
ace, a single ISCD is used and its format is as follows:</span></span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">819c819</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example two interfaces with homogeneous hierarchies but</span></span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example, two interfaces with homogeneous hierarchies but</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">822,824c822,824</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;one a =
G.709-2012 interface with fallback procedure disabled (TS</span></span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;granul=
arity=3D3). &nbsp;Both of them support ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 hierarchy and=
</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;priori=
ties 0 and 3. &nbsp;T and S bits values are not relevant to this</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;one su=
pports G.709-2012 interface with fallback procedure disabled</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;(TS gr=
anularity=3D3). &nbsp;Both of them support ODU1-&gt;ODU2-&gt;ODU3 hierarchy=
</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;and pr=
iorities 0 and 3. &nbsp;T and S bits values are not relevant to this</span>=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">826,827c826,827</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;interf=
aces two different ISCDs are used and the format of their SCSIs</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;is as =
follows:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;interf=
aces, two different ISCDs are used and the format of their&nbsp;</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;SCSIs =
is as follows:</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">903,908c903,908</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;with d=
ifferent exported TS granularity MUST be considered as non</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;homoge=
nous hierarchies is the case in which an H-LPS and the client</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LSP ar=
e terminated on the same egress node. &nbsp;What can happen is that</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;a loos=
e Explicit Route Object (ERO) is used at the hop where the</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;signal=
ed LSP is nested into the Hierarchical-LSP (H-LSP) (penultimate</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;hop of=
 the LSP).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;with d=
ifferent exported TS granularity MUST be considered as&nbsp;</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;non-ho=
mogenous hierarchies. This is the case in which an H-LPS and&nbsp;</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;the cl=
ient LSP are terminated on the same egress node. &nbsp;What can&nbsp;</span=
></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;happen=
 is that a loose Explicit Route Object (ERO) is used at the&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;hop wh=
ere the signaled LSP is nested into the Hierarchical-LSP (H-LSP)</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;(penul=
timate hop of the LSP).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">912,915c912,915</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;if2. &=
nbsp;In case the H-LSP on if1 exports a TS=3D1.25Gbps and if2 a</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;TS=3D2=
.5Gbps and the service LSP being signaled needs a 1.25Gbps</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;tribut=
ary slot, only the H-LSP on if1 can be used to reach node E.</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;For fu=
rther details please see section 4.1 of the [OTN-INFO].</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;if2. &=
nbsp;In this case, the H-LSP on if1 exports a TS=3D1.25Gbps, if2 a</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;TS=3D2=
.5Gbps, the service LSP being signaled needs a 1.25Gbps</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;tribut=
ary slot, and only the H-LSP on if1 can be used to reach node E.</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;For fu=
rther details, please see section 4.1 of the [OTN-INFO].</span></span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">939,943c939,943</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3 hierarchy is</span></spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;shown.=
 &nbsp;In case of ODUflex advertisement the MAX LSP Bandwidth needs</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;to be =
advertised and in some cases also information about the</span></span><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Unrese=
rved bandwidth could be useful. &nbsp;The amount of Unreserved</span></span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;bandwi=
dth does not give a clear indication of how many ODUflex LSP</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example, the advertisement of an ODUflex-&gt;ODU3 hierarchy is</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;shown.=
 &nbsp;In the case of ODUflex advertisement, the MAX LSP Bandwidth</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;needs =
to be advertised and, in some cases, information about the</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Unrese=
rved bandwidth could also be useful. &nbsp;The amount of Unreserved</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;bandwi=
dth does not give a clear indication of how many ODUflex LSPs</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">959,962c959,962</span></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth equal to 10 Gbps each. &nbsp;In case 50Gbps of Unreserved</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B and 3 ODUflex</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LSPs o=
f 10 GBps each, have to be restored, for sure only one can be</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;restor=
ed along Link B and it is probable (but not sure) that two of</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth equal to 10 Gbps each. &nbsp;In the case where 50Gbps of Unreserved</sp=
an></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;Bandwi=
dth are available on Link A, 10Gbps on Link B, and 3 ODUflex</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LSPs o=
f 10 GBps each have to be restored, for sure only one can be</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;restor=
ed along Link B and it is probable, but not certain, that two of</span></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">966c966</span></span><o:=
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</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the=
 case of ODUflex advertisement the Type 2 Bandwidth TLV is</span></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In the=
 case of ODUflex advertisement, the Type 2 Bandwidth TLV is</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1073c1073</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;simpli=
city we assume that also in this case only priorities 0 and 3</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
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</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;simpli=
city, we also assume that only priorities 0 and 3</span></span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1294c1294</span></span><=
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</div>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example, 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1388c1388</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS</span></span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;In thi=
s example, 2 OTU4 component links with the same supported TS</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1506c1506</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;All im=
plementations of this document MAY support also advertisement</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;All im=
plementations of this document MAY also support advertisement</span></span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1518c1518</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;based =
on policy and is out of scope of the document. &nbsp;This enables</span></s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;based =
on policy and beyond the scope of this document. &nbsp;This enables</span><=
/span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">1537c1537</span></span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&lt; &nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC59=
20] .</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---</span></span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;[RFC59=
20].</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&n=
bsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_94A203EA12AECE4BA92D42DBFFE0AE47030D94A5eusaamb101erics_--

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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : GMPLS RSVP-TE Extensions for SONET/SDH and OTN OAM Confi=
guration
	Author(s)       : Andras Kern
                          Attila Takacs
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-06.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2013-11-09

Abstract:
   GMPLS has been extended to support connection establishment in both
   SONET/SDH and OTN networks.  However support for the configuration of
   the OAM functions is not specified.  Both SONET/SDH and OTN implement
   OAM functions to monitor the transported signals.  This document
   defines extensions to RSVP-TE for SONET/SDH and OTN OAM configuration
   based on the OAM Configuration Framework defined in a separate
   document.  This document supports, but does not modify, ITU-T OAM
   mechanisms.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-rsvp-te-sdh-otn-oam-ext=
-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------040903000904050602040806
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

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    <font face="Tahoma">Hi Zafar,<br>
      <br>
      this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time
      as well as the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs<br>
      where applicable.<br>
      <br>
      There are default values set for these timers in the data plane
      and signaling them in the control plane makes only<br>
      sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. Do
      you see a need for that? IMO, operators typically<br>
      use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection
      basis.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thanks,<br>
      Dieter<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali (zali)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:CEA25E85.81FFE%25zali@cisco.com" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Hi Lou- 

You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that
we are using different ctype.

We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG on
this draft. 

Thanks

Regards Š Zafar

-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">"lberger@labn.net"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;lberger@labn.net&gt;</a>
Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
To: zali <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;zali@cisco.com&gt;</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">"ccamp@ietf.org"</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a>
Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Zafar,
	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of
an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
stated that this wasn't the case.

FWIW:

Your document says:

   0                   1                   2                   3
   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  |                                                               |
  ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
  |                                                               |
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


RFC4872 says
     0                   1                   2                   3
     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
    |                           Reserved                            |
    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
explicitly in any case.

Lou
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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From zhangfatai@huawei.com  Mon Nov 11 19:09:11 2013
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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 02:09:41 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi Zafar,

It does not matter what it is.=20

Do you see any problem for an element (a stateless PCE or NMS or even a nod=
e) to store path key information?

Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node c=
an store lots of informaiton.=20



Best Regards

Fatai


-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Z=
afar Ali (zali)
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 11:58 AM
To: Zhangxian (Xian)
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Hi Zhang:=20

Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the
PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16 bit path
keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.


The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the (path
key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we call such
PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the solution is not
scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path info) states. Such
limitations and requirements need to be clearly stated in the draft.

Thanks

Regards =A9 Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Hi, all,
>
>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
>
>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
>"
>.......
>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and
>provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the
>latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the LSR
>that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In
>both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to
>diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
>"
>
>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw
>information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00
>incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and let us
>know what you think.
>
>Cheers,
>Xian

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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
To: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hi,

Moreover, this information is only make sense for the end points and no nee=
d to be signaled.




Best Regards

Fatai

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of D=
ieter Beller
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:08 PM
To: Zafar Ali (zali)
Cc: CCAMP
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-reverti=
ve-ps

Hi Zafar,

this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time as well a=
s the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs
where applicable.

There are default values set for these timers in the data plane and signali=
ng them in the control plane makes only
sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. Do you see =
a need for that? IMO, operators typically
use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection basis.


Thanks,
Dieter

On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:

Hi Lou-



You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that

we are using different ctype.



We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG on

this draft.



Thanks



Regards =A9 Zafar



-----Original Message-----

From: "lberger@labn.net"<mailto:lberger@labn.net> <lberger@labn.net><mailto=
:lberger@labn.net>

Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM

To: zali <zali@cisco.com><mailto:zali@cisco.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org"<mailto:c=
camp@ietf.org> <ccamp@ietf.org><mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>

Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps



Zafar,

   My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of

an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You

stated that this wasn't the case.



FWIW:



Your document says:



   0                   1                   2                   3

   0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

  |                                                               |

  ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~

  |                                                               |

  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+





RFC4872 says

     0                   1                   2                   3

     0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1

    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

    |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

    |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|

    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

    |                           Reserved                            |

    +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+



Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility

explicitly in any case.



Lou



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Moreover, =
this information is only make sense for the end points and no need to be si=
gnaled.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Best Regards<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
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>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Fatai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:=
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> ccamp-bounces@ietf.=
org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dieter Beller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 10, 2013 10:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> CCAMP<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-=
revertive-ps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Zafar,<b=
r>
<br>
this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time as well a=
s the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs<br>
where applicable.<br>
<br>
There are default values set for these timers in the data plane and signali=
ng them in the control plane makes only<br>
sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. Do you see =
a need for that? IMO, operators typically<br>
use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection basis.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Dieter<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali =
(zali) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Lou- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned=
 during the meeting that<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">we are using different ctype.<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">We would like to take this opportunity to solicit=
 comments from the WG on<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">this draft. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards =A9 Zafar<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre=
>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&quot;l=
berger@labn.net&quot;</a> <a href=3D"mailto:lberger@labn.net">&lt;lberger@l=
abn.net&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM<o:p></o:=
p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: zali <a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">&lt;za=
li@cisco.com&gt;</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&quot;ccamp@ietf.or=
g&quot;</a> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">&lt;ccamp@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs=
-ccamp-revertive-ps<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zafar,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; My comment in today's session was th=
at you are redefining the format of<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks c=
ompatibility.&nbsp; You<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">stated that this wasn't the case.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">FWIW:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your document says:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;3<o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 =
8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Length&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Class-Num(37) |&nbsp;&nbsp; C-Type(2)&nbsp;=
&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; |S|P|N|O| Reserved&nbsp; | LSP Flags |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reserved&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Link Flags|<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; |I|R|&nbsp;&nbsp; Reserved&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; | Seg.Flags |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; Reserved&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; ~&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sub-TLVs&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ~<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">RFC4872 says<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; 3<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 =
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Length&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |S|P|N|O| Reserved&nbsp; | LSP=
 Flags |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reserved&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | L=
ink Flags|<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reserved&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#4=
3;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-&#43;-=
&#43;-&#43;-&#43;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).&nbsp; You should a=
ddress compatibility<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">explicitly in any case.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Lou<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">CCAMP mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
ccamp">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <br>
<img border=3D"0" width=3D"276" height=3D"26" id=3D"_x0000_i1025" src=3D"ci=
d:image001.jpg@01CEDF8E.9139D6C0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-variant:small-caps=
">DIETER BELLER
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#6639B7">ALCATEL-LUC=
ENT DEUTSCHLAND AG
<br>
PROJECT MANAGER ASON/GMPLS CONTROL PLANE <br>
IP ROUTING AND TRANSPORT BL <br>
IP TRANSPORT BU <br>
<br>
Lorenzstrasse 10 <br>
70435 Stuttgart, Germany <br>
Phone: &#43;49 711 821 43125 <br>
Mobil: &#43;49 175 7266874 <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#6639B7"><a href=
=3D"mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com">Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.c=
om</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Alcatel-Lucent Deutschland=
 AG
<br>
Domicile of the Company: Stuttgart &middot; Local Court Stuttgart HRB 4026 =
<br>
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Michael Oppenhoff <br>
Board of Management: Wilhelm Dresselhaus (Chairman) &middot; Hans-J=F6rg Da=
ub &middot; Andreas Gehe
<br>
<br>
This e-mail and its attachments, if any, may contain confidential informati=
on.<br>
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us and delete or d=
estroy the e-mail and its attachments, if any, immediately.
<br>
If you have received this e-mail in error, you must not forward or make use=
 of the e-mail and its attachments, if any.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</html>

--_000_F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA8BDD3SZXEMA504MBSchi_--

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From: "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>,  "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Fatai -

If a PCE is saving state, then in what way is it "stateless".  The text
you have below and along with Zafar's quote (from RFC5520) is of a PCE
that CACHEs the result (ERO segment) of a constrained path selection along
with the key it handed out.  As a path is signaled an LSR or (or perhaps
several LSRs) may contact PCEs using a path key to retrieve the path in
order to extend or complete the ERO.

But the PCE merely caches.  The only state that is saved for the life of
the LSP is at the LSR.

George

On 11/11/13 9:09 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com> wrote:

>Hi Zafar,
>
>It does not matter what it is.
>
>Do you see any problem for an element (a stateless PCE or NMS or even a
>node) to store path key information?
>
>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>can store lots of informaiton.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>Fatai
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Zafar Ali (zali)
>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 11:58 AM
>To: Zhangxian (Xian)
>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>Hi Zhang:=20
>
>Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the
>PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16 bit path
>keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.
>
>
>The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the (path
>key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we call such
>PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the solution is not
>scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path info) states. Such
>limitations and requirements need to be clearly stated in the draft.
>
>Thanks
>
>Regards =A9 Zafar
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>>Hi, all,
>>
>>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
>>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
>>
>>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
>>"
>>.......
>>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and
>>provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the
>>latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the LSR
>>that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In
>>both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to
>>diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
>>"
>>
>>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
>>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw
>>information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00
>>incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and let us
>>know what you think.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Xian
>
>_______________________________________________
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 19:06:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
Thread-Topic: Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 19:08:27 +0000
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Subject: [CCAMP] Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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--_000_CEA260588200Dzaliciscocom_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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Hi Lou-

When you asked the question about how many people are in favor of WG taking=
 on this work, we had a fair number of support. Then there were some confus=
ing question that Loa also came to mic for clarification. As we had to rush=
 so much during WG meetings that there is not much time clarifying or debat=
e these things during the WG meeting. IMO it will only be fair to ask the m=
ailing list these questions so WG can show its opinion.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar


--_000_CEA260588200Dzaliciscocom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>Hi Lou-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When you asked the question about how many people are in favor of WG t=
aking on this work, we had a
<u>fair</u> number of support. Then there were some confusing question that=
 Loa also came to mic for clarification. As we had to rush so much during W=
G meetings that there is not much time clarifying or debate these things du=
ring the WG meeting. IMO it will
 only be fair to ask the mailing list these questions so WG can show its op=
inion.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEA260588200Dzaliciscocom_--

From loa@pi.nu  Tue Nov 12 12:15:02 2013
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Zafar,

I got a satisfactory answer from Lou. The point I made was that the
way the question was asked was that it included both people that were
absolutely against and people that did not care.

Lou agreed that that was the case and that it was understood.

/Loa

On 2013-11-12 11:08, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Lou-
>
> When you asked the question about how many people are in favor of WG
> taking on this work, we had a _fair_ number of support. Then there were
> some confusing question that Loa also came to mic for clarification. As
> we had to rush so much during WG meetings that there is not much time
> clarifying or debate these things during the WG meeting. IMO it will
> only be fair to ask the mailing list these questions so WG can show its
> opinion.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards … Zafar
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

From zali@cisco.com  Tue Nov 12 13:21:32 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>, "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hi Loa-=20

Regardless, when Lou asked the question about how many people are in favor
of WG taking on this work, we had a _fair_ number of support. IMO it will
only be fair to now poll the mailing list for WG adaptation.

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Date: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:14 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>,
"BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for
draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps

>Zafar,
>
>I got a satisfactory answer from Lou. The point I made was that the
>way the question was asked was that it included both people that were
>absolutely against and people that did not care.
>
>Lou agreed that that was the case and that it was understood.
>
>/Loa
>
>On 2013-11-12 11:08, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>> Hi Lou-
>>
>> When you asked the question about how many people are in favor of WG
>> taking on this work, we had a _fair_ number of support. Then there were
>> some confusing question that Loa also came to mic for clarification. As
>> we had to rush so much during WG meetings that there is not much time
>> clarifying or debate these things during the WG meeting. IMO it will
>> only be fair to ask the mailing list these questions so WG can show its
>> opinion.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Regards =8A Zafar
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>
>--=20
>
>
>Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64


From loa@pi.nu  Tue Nov 12 13:59:48 2013
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To: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>,  "pwe3@ietf.org" <pwe3@ietf.org>, "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>, l2vpn@ietf.org, L3VPN <l3vpn@ietf.org>, Vero Zheng <vero.zheng@huawei.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  "stbryant@cisco.com" <stbryant@cisco.com>
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Subject: [CCAMP] MPLS VPN Scaling Bof in London
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Working Groups,

We will run a non-Working Group forming BoF in London to discuss
issues around Scaling of MPLS VPNs.

Lou Berger and i have accepted to chair this BoF, Vero Zheng will
take on the role as list admin and secretary.

We plan to kick-off the discussion on a problem statement as soon
as we have enough participants on the mailing list

We gave a heads up for this BoF in Vancouver - these slides were
presented in the RTG Area Open Meeting.

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-rtgarea-5.pptx

We have started to prepare the BoF, and the discussion on how we set
it up will take place on a new mailing list:

    scale-request@ietf.org

Please subscribe to this list through:

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scale

/Loa



-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

From leeyoung@huawei.com  Tue Nov 12 14:12:55 2013
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode
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Hi Lou,

WRT to your comment on:
Section 4.
  The definitions of sub-sub-TLVs are a bit underspecified.  Some
  specific questions to address:
  - Are there any sub-sub-TLV ordering requirements?
  - How are multiple sub-sub-TLVs of the same type to be handled?
  - What is the sub-sub-TLV header (TL format)?
  - Are there any alignment requirements?
  - What happens when a sub-sub-TLV is larger than 256 bytes?
    (There are already systems that advertise 192 wavelengths on a
    fiber and an application code takes 8 bytes, right? But
    of course this presents a problem when carried within an RSVP
    object too.)

For the last dash item, "what happens when sub-sub-TLV is larger than 256 b=
ytes", I guess you meant that the RB Info Field (in which to contain sub-su=
b-TLVs) can exceed 256 bytes as opposed to individual sub-sub-TLVs in the R=
B Info Field?=20

As for the resolution for this case, should this be addressed in the respec=
tive routing and signaling drafts?=20

I am not familiar the method to resolve this kind of issues --- can you sug=
gest some references or relevant text? I think this issue would arise both =
routing and signaling.=20

Thanks.
Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:27 PM
To: CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-ws=
on-encode

Authors,
	I have some comments on this document. Many are strictly editorial. Note t=
hat I'm the document shepherd, see RFC 4858 for more information.

- Please address my general comments on the WSON document set

- section 1
   This document makes
   use of the Label Set Field encoding of [Gen-Encode] and refers to it
   as a Wavelength Set Field.
  Why?  Why not just refer to it as Label Set?  Perhaps you mean that a
  Wavelength Set Field is a Label Set Field that MUST carry a label as
  defined in RFC6205?  If so, this needs to be made explicit. (probably
  in a section other than the introduction.)

- section2/3 section alignment with rwa-info
  It's probably a good idea to align naming and ordering wherever
  possible.

- section 2
  1st two paragraphs.  Why does this section try to introduce concepts
  that are defined in 6163 and in [WSON-INFO]?  Is something missing
  from those documents?  If so, at least wson info should be fixed.  If
  not, these paragraphs should be replaced with simple
  terminology/concept references.

- Section 2, same comment WRT TLVs as made on general-constraint-
  encode: The text reads:
   This document defines the following sub-TLVs pertaining to resources
   within an optical node:

   All references to sub-TLVs should dropped, again see related comment
   in my may on general-constraint-encode.  This doesn't hold for
   sub-sub-TLVs, and I'll get to this below.

- Section 3.1
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    | Connectivity  |
  Why is connectivity a byte here, but only a bit in section 2.1?
  Either it should be a bit here to, or section 2.1 should be a byte.
  Note, that this can be fixed in a compatible way by defining it here
  as:
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    |   Reserved  |C|


- Section 4.
  The definitions of sub-sub-TLVs are a bit underspecified.  Some
  specific questions to address:
  - Are there any sub-sub-TLV ordering requirements?
  - How are multiple sub-sub-TLVs of the same type to be handled?
  - What is the sub-sub-TLV header (TL format)?
  - Are there any alignment requirements?
  - What happens when a sub-sub-TLV is larger than 256 bytes?
    (There are already systems that advertise 192 wavelengths on a
    fiber and an application code takes 8 bytes, right? But
    of course this presents a problem when carried within an RSVP
    object too.)

  If you find you need more specifics, we can discuss / I can propose
  new text.  Feel free to discuss the details on or off list (your
  choice.)

- Section 4.1
  Title and 1st sentence don't agree on the element's name.

- Section 3.4, 4.1
  - Bits I & E are defined here, but I & O are used in parallel ways in
    Section 3.2. For consistency it should be I & O everywhere (to
    match input and output).

- Section 4.2.1
  s/[ITU-G.695.1]/[ITU-G.695]

- Section 4.2.2, 4.2.3
  Why do you use bit names that are different than the ITU-T
  definitions for p and s (rather than D and F)?

WRT Section 8:
-  [RFC3471] is an informative reference.
- [Gen-Encode] needs to be normative, this document reuses its definitions.
- I'm surprised  [WSON-Info] is informative (and not normative).  Do you th=
ink this is correct?

That's it on this one,
Lou
On 10/22/2013 4:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> All,
> 	Given the recent draft submission deadline and only one comment being=20
> received to date, we'd like to extend the WG more time for review.
>=20
> These drafts represent significant work by the authors and WG, so=20
> please review and let the WG know what you think (positive or negative)!
>=20
> Please have all comments in by October 29.
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
>=20
> On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
>> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
>> The documents included in the last call are:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
>> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
>> -11
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
>> (Standards Track)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints
>> -ospf-te-05
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility
>> -ospf-12
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
>> (Standards
>> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
>> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>>
>> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
>> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
>> technical basis for any comments.
>>
>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
>> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>>
>> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
>> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
>> statements/disclosures.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (and Deborah)
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Routing and Wavelength Assignment Information Encoding f=
or Wavelength Switched Optical Networks
	Author(s)       : Greg M. Bernstein
                          Young Lee
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-22.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2013-11-12

Abstract:
   A wavelength switched optical network (WSON) requires that certain
   key information elements are made available to facilitate path
   computation and the establishment of label switching paths (LSPs).
   The information model described in "Routing and Wavelength
   Assignment Information for Wavelength Switched Optical Networks"
   shows what information is required at specific points in the WSON.
   Part of the WSON information model contains aspects that may be of
   general applicability to other technologies, while other parts are
   fairly specific to WSONs.

   This document provides efficient, protocol-agnostic encodings for
   the WSON specific information elements. It is intended that
   protocol-specific documents will reference this memo to describe how
   information is carried for specific uses. Such encodings can be used
   to extend GMPLS signaling and routing protocols. In addition these
   encodings could be used by other mechanisms to convey this same
   information to a path computation element (PCE).





The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-22

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-22


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From leeyoung@huawei.com  Tue Nov 12 18:06:13 2013
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode
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Hi Lou,

Please see inline for my responses to your comments. Let me know if there a=
re still further issues.=20

Thanks.
Young

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:27 PM
To: CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-ws=
on-encode

Authors,
	I have some comments on this document. Many are strictly editorial. Note t=
hat I'm the document shepherd, see RFC 4858 for more information.

- Please address my general comments on the WSON document set

YOUNG>> Done. See Terminology Section changed as follows:=20

Refer to [RFC6163] for CWDM, DWDM, RWA, WDM.=20
Refer to Section 5 of [Gen-Encode] for the terminology of Resources, Resour=
ces Blocks, and Resource Pool.

- section 1
   This document makes
   use of the Label Set Field encoding of [Gen-Encode] and refers to it
   as a Wavelength Set Field.
  Why?  Why not just refer to it as Label Set?  Perhaps you mean that a
  Wavelength Set Field is a Label Set Field that MUST carry a label as
  defined in RFC6205?  If so, this needs to be made explicit. (probably
  in a section other than the introduction.)

YOUNG>> Moved the text from introduction to Section 3.1 and added the :=20
"The For the Input and Output Link Set Fields, the Link Set Field encoding =
defined in [Gen-Encode] is to be used. A Label Set Field MUST carry a label=
 as defined in [RFC6205]."


- section2/3 section alignment with rwa-info
  It's probably a good idea to align naming and ordering wherever
  possible.

YOUNG>> Aligned where possible.=20

- section 2
  1st two paragraphs.  Why does this section try to introduce concepts
  that are defined in 6163 and in [WSON-INFO]?  Is something missing
  from those documents?  If so, at least wson info should be fixed.  If
  not, these paragraphs should be replaced with simple
  terminology/concept references.

YOUNG>> Added "Refer to Section 5 of [Gen-Encode] for the terminology of Re=
sources, Resources Blocks, and Resource Pool." (Terminology Section).
YOUNG>> Added the following paragraph in the beginning of Section 2.=20
"This section provides encodings for the information elements defined in [R=
WA-INFO] that have applicability to WSON.  The encodings are designed to be=
 suitable for use in the GMPLS routing protocols OSPF [RFC4203] and IS-IS [=
RFC5307] and in the PCE protocol (PCEP) [RFC5440]. Note that the informatio=
n distributed in [RFC4203] and [RFC5307] is arranged via the nesting of sub=
-TLVs within TLVs and this document defines elements to be used within such=
 constructs."

- Section 2, same comment WRT TLVs as made on general-constraint-
  encode: The text reads:
   This document defines the following sub-TLVs pertaining to resources
   within an optical node:

   All references to sub-TLVs should dropped, again see related comment
   in my may on general-constraint-encode.  This doesn't hold for
   sub-sub-TLVs, and I'll get to this below.

YOUNG>> sub-TLVs dropped.=20

- Section 3.1
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    | Connectivity  |
  Why is connectivity a byte here, but only a bit in section 2.1?
  Either it should be a bit here to, or section 2.1 should be a byte.
  Note, that this can be fixed in a compatible way by defining it here
  as:
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    |   Reserved  |C|

YOUNG>> Your suggested encoding accepted.=20

- Section 4.
  The definitions of sub-sub-TLVs are a bit underspecified.  Some
  specific questions to address:

  - Are there any sub-sub-TLV ordering requirements?

YOUNG>> No.

  - How are multiple sub-sub-TLVs of the same type to be handled?

YOUNG>> I don't see why there are multiple sub-sub-TLVs of the same type. I=
n case where there are multiple sub-sub-TLVs of the same type, there would =
be no error as these information are not order-sensitive. Is this what you =
have in mind?=20

  - What is the sub-sub-TLV header (TL format)?

YOUNG>> Added TLV format

  - Are there any alignment requirements?

YOUNG>> Not sure what this is.=20

  - What happens when a sub-sub-TLV is larger than 256 bytes?
    (There are already systems that advertise 192 wavelengths on a
    fiber and an application code takes 8 bytes, right? But
    of course this presents a problem when carried within an RSVP
    object too.)

  If you find you need more specifics, we can discuss / I can propose
  new text.  Feel free to discuss the details on or off list (your
  choice.)


YOUNG>> Please see the other email response to this comment.=20

- Section 4.1
  Title and 1st sentence don't agree on the element's name.

YOUNG>> Aligned.=20

- Section 3.4, 4.1
  - Bits I & E are defined here, but I & O are used in parallel ways in
    Section 3.2. For consistency it should be I & O everywhere (to
    match input and output).

YOUNG>> Corrected to I & O.

- Section 4.2.1
  s/[ITU-G.695.1]/[ITU-G.695]

YOUNG>> Done.=20

- Section 4.2.2, 4.2.3
  Why do you use bit names that are different than the ITU-T
  definitions for p and s (rather than D and F)?

YOUNG>> Changed to D and F now.=20

WRT Section 8:
-  [RFC3471] is an informative reference.
- [Gen-Encode] needs to be normative, this document reuses its definitions.
- I'm surprised  [WSON-Info] is informative (and not normative).  Do you th=
ink this is correct?

YOUNG>> All corrected. [WSON-Info] is normative.=20

That's it on this one,
Lou
On 10/22/2013 4:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> All,
> 	Given the recent draft submission deadline and only one comment being=20
> received to date, we'd like to extend the WG more time for review.
>=20
> These drafts represent significant work by the authors and WG, so=20
> please review and let the WG know what you think (positive or negative)!
>=20
> Please have all comments in by October 29.
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
>=20
> On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
>> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
>> The documents included in the last call are:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
>> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
>> -11
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
>> (Standards Track)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints
>> -ospf-te-05
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility
>> -ospf-12
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
>> (Standards
>> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
>> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>>
>> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
>> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
>> technical basis for any comments.
>>
>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
>> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>>
>> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
>> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
>> statements/disclosures.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (and Deborah)
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>
Date: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:43 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, Dieter Beller <Dieter.Bel=
ler@alcatel-lucent.com<mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-reverti=
ve-ps

The operator can just click a button to configure it, otherwise how the ing=
ress knows what to tell the egress.

This will require operator to apply configurations on both ingress and egre=
ss. Applying a matching configuration for a connection that does not exists=
 at egress is not feasible. If we go with your logic, we don't need similar=
 extensions that are already RFCs, e.g., http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6107=
.

Thanks

Regards=85Zafar


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252">
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e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, November 13, 2013 =
1:43 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Dieter Beller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Die=
ter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com">Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [CCAMP] Comment on com=
patibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; lin=
e-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; t=
ext-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -we=
bkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The operator can just click a button to =
configure it, otherwise how the ingress knows what to tell the egress.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This will require operator to apply configurations on both ingress and=
 egress. Applying a matching configuration for a connection that does not e=
xists at egress is not feasible. If we go with your logic, we don't need si=
milar extensions that are already
 RFCs, e.g.,&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6107">http://too=
ls.ietf.org/html/rfc6107</a>.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards=85Zafar&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEA88B148326Fzaliciscocom_--

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--_004_F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA8C650SZXEMA504MBSchi_--

From huubatwork@gmail.com  Wed Nov 13 12:53:08 2013
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:53:04 +0100
From: Huub van Helvoort <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hello Zafar,

You wrote:

 > The default parameter value in data plan is deficient for the
 > following reasons:
>
>  1. We cannot differentiate between revertive and non-revertive behavior
>     using default value of wait-to-restore timer.

The value of the WTR timer should not determine the (non-)revertive
behavior. The (non-)revertive behaviour should be explicitly
provisioned.

>     E.g., as far
>     as I remember default value for WRT is 0, which means protection
>     is non-revertive.

The typical default value for WTR is 5 minutes to provide a
hysteresis, it can be overruled by a higher priority event
like Sf or SD.
Setting the value of WTR to 0 does not mean protection is
non-revertive.

>     So this default does not work for revertive
>     protection. I.e., the data plan default cannot cover both revertive
>     and non-revertive cases.

Again: the WTR value should not be used to indicate (non-)revertive
behavior.

>  2. Correct setting for wait-to-restore and hold-off timers need to
>     account for differential delays between working and protection paths.

No, WTR accounts for repair of the failed path and to encertain
that the repair can be trusted.
Hold-off timers are used to allow protection switching in layers
closer to the physical layer to complete before protection
switching in the affected layer.

> In summary, default values cannot cover all use cases. Hence, SP
> typically wants to set revertive vs. non-revertive behavior,
> wait-to-restore and hold-off timers on per connection basis.

They will provision default values per layer in the network.

Regards, Huub.

===========
> From: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com
> <mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>>
> Organization: Alcatel-Lucent
> Date: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:07 AM
> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
> Cc: "lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>" <lberger@labn.net
> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>, "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>"
> <ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in
> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>
>     Hi Zafar,
>
>     this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time as
>     well as the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs
>     where applicable.
>
>     There are default values set for these timers in the data plane and
>     signaling them in the control plane makes only
>     sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. Do
>     you see a need for that? IMO, operators typically
>     use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection basis.
>
>
>     Thanks,
>     Dieter
>
>
>     On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>>     Hi Lou-
>>
>>     You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that
>>     we are using different ctype.
>>
>>     We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG on
>>     this draft.
>>
>>     Thanks
>>
>>     Regards Å  Zafar
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From:"lberger@labn.net"  <lberger@labn.net>
>>     Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
>>     To: zali<zali@cisco.com>,"ccamp@ietf.org"  <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>     Subject: Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>>
>>>     Zafar,
>>>     	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format of
>>>     an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
>>>     stated that this wasn't the case.
>>>
>>>     FWIW:
>>>
>>>     Your document says:
>>>
>>>         0                   1                   2                   3
>>>         0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>        +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>        |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
>>>        +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>        |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
>>>        +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>        |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
>>>        +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>        |                                                               |
>>>        ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
>>>        |                                                               |
>>>        +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>
>>>
>>>     RFC4872 says
>>>           0                   1                   2                   3
>>>           0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>          |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
>>>          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>          |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
>>>          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>          |                           Reserved                            |
>>>          +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>
>>>     Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
>>>     explicitly in any case.
>>>
>>>     Lou
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     CCAMP mailing list
>>     CCAMP@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


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From jdrake@juniper.net  Wed Nov 13 13:02:29 2013
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 21:02:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in	draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 22:10:10 +0100
From: Huub van Helvoort <huubatwork@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hello John,

You replied:

> A nice note.  Dou you think this draft is gilding the lily?

Yes, indeed.

Regards, Huub.



>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of Huub van Helvoort
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:53 PM
>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-
>> revertive-ps
>>
>> Hello Zafar,
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>>   > The default parameter value in data plan is deficient for the  > following
>> reasons:
>>>
>>>   1. We cannot differentiate between revertive and non-revertive behavior
>>>      using default value of wait-to-restore timer.
>>
>> The value of the WTR timer should not determine the (non-)revertive behavior.
>> The (non-)revertive behaviour should be explicitly provisioned.
>>
>>>      E.g., as far
>>>      as I remember default value for WRT is 0, which means protection
>>>      is non-revertive.
>>
>> The typical default value for WTR is 5 minutes to provide a hysteresis, it can be
>> overruled by a higher priority event like Sf or SD.
>> Setting the value of WTR to 0 does not mean protection is non-revertive.
>>
>>>      So this default does not work for revertive
>>>      protection. I.e., the data plan default cannot cover both revertive
>>>      and non-revertive cases.
>>
>> Again: the WTR value should not be used to indicate (non-)revertive behavior.
>>
>>>   2. Correct setting for wait-to-restore and hold-off timers need to
>>>      account for differential delays between working and protection paths.
>>
>> No, WTR accounts for repair of the failed path and to encertain that the repair
>> can be trusted.
>> Hold-off timers are used to allow protection switching in layers closer to the
>> physical layer to complete before protection switching in the affected layer.
>>
>>> In summary, default values cannot cover all use cases. Hence, SP
>>> typically wants to set revertive vs. non-revertive behavior,
>>> wait-to-restore and hold-off timers on per connection basis.
>>
>> They will provision default values per layer in the network.
>>
>> Regards, Huub.
>>
>> ===========
>>> From: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com
>>> <mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>> Organization: Alcatel-Lucent
>>> Date: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:07 AM
>>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>> Cc: "lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>" <lberger@labn.net
>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>, "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>"
>>> <ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in
>>> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>>>
>>>      Hi Zafar,
>>>
>>>      this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time as
>>>      well as the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs
>>>      where applicable.
>>>
>>>      There are default values set for these timers in the data plane and
>>>      signaling them in the control plane makes only
>>>      sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. Do
>>>      you see a need for that? IMO, operators typically
>>>      use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection basis.
>>>
>>>
>>>      Thanks,
>>>      Dieter
>>>
>>>
>>>      On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>>>>      Hi Lou-
>>>>
>>>>      You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the meeting that
>>>>      we are using different ctype.
>>>>
>>>>      We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from the WG
>> on
>>>>      this draft.
>>>>
>>>>      Thanks
>>>>
>>>>      Regards Å  Zafar
>>>>
>>>>      -----Original Message-----
>>>>      From:"lberger@labn.net"  <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>      Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
>>>>      To: zali<zali@cisco.com>,"ccamp@ietf.org"  <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>>      Subject: Comment on compatibility in
>>>> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>>>>
>>>>>      Zafar,
>>>>>      	My comment in today's session was that you are redefining the format
>> of
>>>>>      an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.  You
>>>>>      stated that this wasn't the case.
>>>>>
>>>>>      FWIW:
>>>>>
>>>>>      Your document says:
>>>>>
>>>>>          0                   1                   2                   3
>>>>>          0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>>         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>         |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2)   |
>>>>>         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>         |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link Flags|
>>>>>         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>         |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved            |
>>>>>         +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>         |                                                               |
>>>>>         ~                           sub-TLVs                            ~
>>>>>         |                                                               |
>>>>>
>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      RFC4872 says
>>>>>            0                   1                   2                   3
>>>>>            0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>>           +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>           |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (2)    |
>>>>>           +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>           |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link Flags|
>>>>>           +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>           |                           Reserved                            |
>>>>>
>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>
>>>>>      Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibility
>>>>>      explicitly in any case.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Lou
>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>      CCAMP mailing list
>>>>      CCAMP@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>


-- 
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : General Network Element Constraint Encoding for GMPLS Co=
ntrolled Networks
	Author(s)       : Greg M. Bernstein
                          Young Lee
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-12.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2013-11-13

Abstract:
   Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching can be used to control a
   wide variety of technologies. In some of these technologies network
   elements and links may impose additional routing constraints such as
   asymmetric switch connectivity, non-local label assignment, and
   label range limitations on links.

   This document provides efficient, protocol-agnostic encodings for
   general information elements representing connectivity and label
   constraints as well as label availability. It is intended that
   protocol-specific documents will reference this memo to describe how
   information is carried for specific uses.





The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-enco=
de-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From lberger@labn.net  Wed Nov 13 13:56:29 2013
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:56:03 -0500
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Subject: [CCAMP] etherpad draft minutes available
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All,
	The raw minutes taken during last week's session are available in
etherpad, http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/minutes.  Please feel free to
review and edit these to match your own personal notes.  Formal draft
minutes will be prepared by Daniele, and the chairs, and will include
any additions made to etherpad. Changes to the distributed minutes will
of require discussion on the list -- while changes to etherpad can just
be made.  (A time line of changes can be seen by the clock 'timeslider'
icon.)

I believe Daniele is planning to work on the minutes over the weekend,
so please make changes that you want incorporated as soon as possible.

Much thanks,
Lou (Deborah, and Daniele)

From leeyoung@huawei.com  Wed Nov 13 14:09:27 2013
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From: Leeyoung <leeyoung@huawei.com>
To: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents -	draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
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Hi Lou,

Here's my response inline to your comments on draft-ietf-ccamp-general-cons=
traint-encode.

Thanks.
Young

-----Original Message-----
From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L=
ou Berger
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:27 PM
To: CCAMP; draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] WG Last Call: WSON documents - draft-ietf-ccamp-genera=
l-constraint-encode

Authors,
	I have some comments on this document. A number are strictly editorial. No=
te that I'm the document shepherd, see RFC 4858 for more information.

- Please address my general comments on the WSON document set

YOUNG>> Done.=20

- I'm a bit surprised that this document does *not* reference the rwa-info =
draft.  Given that it provides the context for this document, it should be =
there, and probably as a normative reference.

YOUNG>> RWA-INFO referenced as a Normative reference in Section 2 as follow=
s: "This section provides encodings for the information elements defined
   in [RWA-INFO] that have general applicability."


- Your references to [Switch] seem almost normative in nature. I suspect th=
at this is not your intent as it is listed as an informative reference.  Pl=
ease revisit your references and ensure that the draft does not depend on a=
ny informative references.  (Either change the text, or move the reference =
to normative.) Perhaps these are places where a reference to rwa-info are m=
ore appropriate.

YOUNG>> Cleaned up the reference. [Switch] is placed as a normative referen=
ce.

- An editorial comment on section ordering:  Section 2 is ordered as
follows:

   2. Encoding.......................................................6
      2.1. Link Set Field............................................6
      2.2. Label Set Field...........................................8
      2.3. Available Labels Sub-TLV.................................11
      2.4. Shared Backup Labels Sub-TLV.............................11
      2.5. Connectivity Matrix Sub-TLV..............................12
      2.6. Port Label Restriction sub-TLV...........................13

  Is there a logical order to these sections? They don't seem to be
  aligned with the rwa-info draft which has:

   4. Node Information (General).....................................8
      4.1. Connectivity Matrix.......................................9
      4.2. Shared Risk Node Group...................................10

   6. Link Information (General)....................................17
      6.6. Port Label (Wavelength) Restrictions.....................18

   7. Dynamic Components of the Information Model...................21
      7.1. Dynamic Link Information (General).......................22

   Perhaps it makes sense from a readability standpoint to realign to
   match rwa-info?


YOUNG>> Did some rearranging to match with that of rwa-info where possible =
as follows:

      2.1. Connectivity Matrix Field.................................5
      2.2. Port Label Restriction Field..............................7
      2.3. Link Set Field...........................................10
      2.4. Available Labels Field...................................12
      2.5. Shared Backup Labels Field...............................13
      2.6. Label Set Field..........................................14


- Section 2 says:
   A type-length-value (TLV) encoding of the general connectivity and
   label restrictions and availability extensions is given in this
   section. This encoding is designed to be suitable for use in the
   GMPLS routing protocols OSPF [RFC4203] and IS-IS [RFC5307] and in
   the PCE protocol PCEP [PCEP]. Note that the information distributed
   in [RFC4203] and [RFC5307] is arranged via the nesting of sub-TLVs
   within TLVs and this document makes use of such constructs...

 Yet there are no types or (sub)TLVs actually defined in this  document.  A=
s such, I think this document should not use the term  "sub-TLV" for the in=
formation elements it defines. In most cases  this just means substituting =
"the <XYZ_information_element> sub-TLV"
 with just "<XYZ_information_element>".

 Section 2 can be revised to read something along the lines of:
   This section provides encodings for the information elements defined
   in [RWA-INFO] that have general applicability.  The encodings are
   designed to be suitable for use in the
   GMPLS routing protocols OSPF [RFC4203] and IS-IS [RFC5307] and in
   the PCE protocol PCEP [PCEP]. Note that the information distributed
   in [RFC4203] and [RFC5307] is arranged via the nesting of sub-TLVs
   within TLVs and this document defines elements to be used within
   such constructs...

YOUNG>> All references to sub-TLVs and sub-sub-TLVs were removed and added =
the following paragraphs in Section 2:

   This section provides encodings for the information elements defined
   in [RWA-INFO] that have applicability to WSON.  The encodings are
   designed to be suitable for use in the GMPLS routing protocols OSPF
   [RFC4203] and IS-IS [RFC5307] and in the PCE protocol (PCEP)
   [RFC5440]. Note that the information distributed in [RFC4203] and
   [RFC5307] is arranged via the nesting of sub-TLVs within TLVs and
   this document defines elements to be used within such constructs.
   Specific constructs of sub-TLVs and the nesting of sub-TLVs of the
   information element defined by this document will be defined in the
   respective protocol enhancement documents.



- section 2.2.
   Labels are variable in lengh and need not be 4 bytes long.  This
   needs to be represented and accounted for in the encodings defined
   in this section.

YOUNG>> Agreed. Added the following sentence in Section 2.6 (new section du=
e to shuffling):
   "Labels are variable in length. The second 32 bit field is a part of the=
 base label used as a
   starting point in many of the specific formats."


- Section 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 says "Num Labels (not used)" and
   "Num Labels is not used in this particular format since the Length
   parameter is sufficient to determine the number of labels in the
   list."

  Is there a reason to not set the Num Labels Field in these cases?
  Recall that labels are themselves variable length fields.

YOUNG>> The texts concerning the Num Labels are wrong. In all cases, the Nu=
m Labels are used in the new text.


- section A.2
  s/With the Grid/Using the label format defined in [RFC 6205], with the Gr=
id...
  s/Num Wavelengths/Num Labels (multiple places)

YOUNG>> Corrected.=20

     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
     |  0    | Num Wavelengths =3D 40  |    Length =3D 20 bytes          |
     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
  shouldn't Num Labels either be 0 (if unused) or =3D 7 (assuming num
  labels used in this case)?

YOUNG>> Yes, it should be 7. Corrected.

That's it on this one,
Lou

On 10/22/2013 4:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>=20
> All,
> 	Given the recent draft submission deadline and only one comment being=20
> received to date, we'd like to extend the WG more time for review.
>=20
> These drafts represent significant work by the authors and WG, so=20
> please review and let the WG know what you think (positive or negative)!
>=20
> Please have all comments in by October 29.
>=20
> Thank you,
> Lou (and Deborah)
>=20
> On 10/1/2013 12:34 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> This mail begins working group last call on the WSON documents.  As=20
>> there are 6 documents in this set, the last call will be three weeks.
>> The documents included in the last call are:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-info-18
>> (Informational, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode
>> -11
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-21
>> (Standards Track)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-general-constraints
>> -ospf-te-05
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signal-compatibility
>> -ospf-12
>> (Standards Track, IPR Disclosed)
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-signaling-06=20
>> (Standards
>> Track) Also has one open issue that will need to be resolved as part=20
>> of LC, see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/trac/ticket/52.
>>
>> This working group last call ends on October 22.  Comments should be=20
>> sent to the CCAMP mailing list.  Please remember to include the=20
>> technical basis for any comments.
>>
>> Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it=20
>> is ready for publication", are welcome!
>>
>> Please note that we're still missing some IPR statements.  Any=20
>> forthcoming publication request will be delayed by late IPR=20
>> statements/disclosures.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Lou (and Deborah)
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp

From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Wed Nov 13 14:13:44 2013
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : General Network Element Constraint Encoding for GMPLS Co=
ntrolled Networks
	Author(s)       : Greg M. Bernstein
                          Young Lee
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-13.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2013-11-13

Abstract:
   Generalized Multiprotocol Label Switching can be used to control a
   wide variety of technologies. In some of these technologies network
   elements and links may impose additional routing constraints such as
   asymmetric switch connectivity, non-local label assignment, and
   label range limitations on links.

   This document provides efficient, protocol-agnostic encodings for
   general information elements representing connectivity and label
   constraints as well as label availability. It is intended that
   protocol-specific documents will reference this memo to describe how
   information is carried for specific uses.





The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-encode-13

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-general-constraint-enco=
de-13


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Wed Nov 13 14:23:15 2013
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Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-23.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Routing and Wavelength Assignment Information Encoding f=
or Wavelength Switched Optical Networks
	Author(s)       : Greg M. Bernstein
                          Young Lee
                          Dan Li
                          Wataru Imajuku
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-23.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2013-11-13

Abstract:
   A wavelength switched optical network (WSON) requires that certain
   key information elements are made available to facilitate path
   computation and the establishment of label switching paths (LSPs).
   The information model described in "Routing and Wavelength
   Assignment Information for Wavelength Switched Optical Networks"
   shows what information is required at specific points in the WSON.
   Part of the WSON information model contains aspects that may be of
   general applicability to other technologies, while other parts are
   fairly specific to WSONs.

   This document provides efficient, protocol-agnostic encodings for
   the WSON specific information elements. It is intended that
   protocol-specific documents will reference this memo to describe how
   information is carried for specific uses. Such encodings can be used
   to extend GMPLS signaling and routing protocols. In addition these
   encodings could be used by other mechanisms to convey this same
   information to a path computation element (PCE).





The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-23

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-rwa-wson-encode-23


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From lberger@labn.net  Wed Nov 13 16:18:20 2013
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
To: <curtis@ipv6.occnc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:18:11 -0500
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Cc: CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] etherpad draft minutes available
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Curtis,

Thanks for the review! Please make your corrections/additions directly in 
etherpad...

Lou


On November 13, 2013 6:34:21 PM Curtis Villamizar <curtis@ipv6.occnc.com> 
wrote:
>
> In message <5283F573.2020009@labn.net>
> Lou Berger writes:
>
> > All,
> > 	The raw minutes taken during last week's session are available in
> > etherpad, http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/minutes.  Please feel free to
> > review and edit these to match your own personal notes.  Formal draft
> > minutes will be prepared by Daniele, and the chairs, and will include
> > any additions made to etherpad. Changes to the distributed minutes will
> > of require discussion on the list -- while changes to etherpad can just
> > be made.  (A time line of changes can be seen by the clock 'timeslider'
> > icon.)
> > I believe Daniele is planning to work on the minutes over the weekend,
> > so please make changes that you want incorporated as soon as possible.
> > Much thanks,
> > Lou (Deborah, and Daniele)
> > _______________________________________________
> > CCAMP mailing list
> > CCAMP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>
>
> 3707 should be RFC 3717.  I said something like "RFC 37 somthing I
> think 3707" at the meeting but it wouldn't hurt to put in the correct
> RFC number.
>
> Also the summaries were (necessarily) terse and do miss a lot of the
> finer points made in the discussion.  I'm not sure if that is
> avoidable in a WG open discussion without a WG stenographer in place
> of a WG note taker.
>
> The main points seem to be there and I don't think I would have done
> any better as note taker, so thanks to the note takers.
>
> Curtis
>



From francesco.fondelli@gmail.com  Thu Nov 14 00:31:36 2013
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Hi,

> They will provision default values per layer in the network.

Many years ago we had a request (for a gmpls-controlled sdh network)
to control hoff on a per connection basis. Some connections were
supporting a form of protection switching at upper layer. Other
connections (at the same layer) were supported by a form of protection
switching in the lower layer. They wanted different hold off timers
(default was 100ms if I am not wrong). They also pointed me to
"Hold-off times are useful for interworking of protection schemes. The
objective is that these times should be provisionable on an individual
VC basis" [G.841]. No idea what OTN or WDM recommendations say about
this point.

> A nice note.  Dou you think this draft is gilding the lily?

I do not know, it might. All I know is that during the past 5 years I
sporadically receive the request described above. I typically reply
with a link to this draft.

thanks
ciao
fra

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Huub van Helvoort
<huubatwork@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello John,
>
> You replied:
>
>> A nice note.  Dou you think this draft is gilding the lily?
>
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> Regards, Huub.
>
>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Huub van Helvoort
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:53 PM
>>> To: ccamp@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in draft-takacs-ccamp-
>>> revertive-ps
>>>
>>> Hello Zafar,
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>>
>>>   > The default parameter value in data plan is deficient for the  >
>>> following
>>> reasons:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   1. We cannot differentiate between revertive and non-revertive
>>>> behavior
>>>>      using default value of wait-to-restore timer.
>>>
>>>
>>> The value of the WTR timer should not determine the (non-)revertive
>>> behavior.
>>> The (non-)revertive behaviour should be explicitly provisioned.
>>>
>>>>      E.g., as far
>>>>      as I remember default value for WRT is 0, which means protection
>>>>      is non-revertive.
>>>
>>>
>>> The typical default value for WTR is 5 minutes to provide a hysteresis,
>>> it can be
>>> overruled by a higher priority event like Sf or SD.
>>> Setting the value of WTR to 0 does not mean protection is non-revertive=
.
>>>
>>>>      So this default does not work for revertive
>>>>      protection. I.e., the data plan default cannot cover both reverti=
ve
>>>>      and non-revertive cases.
>>>
>>>
>>> Again: the WTR value should not be used to indicate (non-)revertive
>>> behavior.
>>>
>>>>   2. Correct setting for wait-to-restore and hold-off timers need to
>>>>      account for differential delays between working and protection
>>>> paths.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, WTR accounts for repair of the failed path and to encertain that th=
e
>>> repair
>>> can be trusted.
>>> Hold-off timers are used to allow protection switching in layers closer
>>> to the
>>> physical layer to complete before protection switching in the affected
>>> layer.
>>>
>>>> In summary, default values cannot cover all use cases. Hence, SP
>>>> typically wants to set revertive vs. non-revertive behavior,
>>>> wait-to-restore and hold-off timers on per connection basis.
>>>
>>>
>>> They will provision default values per layer in the network.
>>>
>>> Regards, Huub.
>>>
>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>>>
>>>> From: Dieter Beller <Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>> <mailto:Dieter.Beller@alcatel-lucent.com>>
>>>> Organization: Alcatel-Lucent
>>>> Date: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:07 AM
>>>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com <mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
>>>> Cc: "lberger@labn.net <mailto:lberger@labn.net>" <lberger@labn.net
>>>> <mailto:lberger@labn.net>>, "ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>"
>>>> <ccamp@ietf.org <mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Comment on compatibility in
>>>> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>>>>
>>>>      Hi Zafar,
>>>>
>>>>      this draft is defining signaling extensions for the hold-off time
>>>> as
>>>>      well as the wait-to-restore time for protected LSPs
>>>>      where applicable.
>>>>
>>>>      There are default values set for these timers in the data plane a=
nd
>>>>      signaling them in the control plane makes only
>>>>      sense if the timer values shall differ from the default values. D=
o
>>>>      you see a need for that? IMO, operators typically
>>>>      use the defaults and do not set these values on a per connection
>>>> basis.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Thanks,
>>>>      Dieter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      On 08.11.2013 22:11, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>      Hi Lou-
>>>>>
>>>>>      You are right, the ctype is TBD, like I mentioned during the
>>>>> meeting that
>>>>>      we are using different ctype.
>>>>>
>>>>>      We would like to take this opportunity to solicit comments from
>>>>> the WG
>>>
>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>>      this draft.
>>>>>
>>>>>      Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>      Regards =C5=A0 Zafar
>>>>>
>>>>>      -----Original Message-----
>>>>>      From:"lberger@labn.net"  <lberger@labn.net>
>>>>>      Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 6:17 PM
>>>>>      To: zali<zali@cisco.com>,"ccamp@ietf.org"  <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>>>>      Subject: Comment on compatibility in
>>>>> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>>>>>
>>>>>>      Zafar,
>>>>>>         My comment in today's session was that you are redefining th=
e
>>>>>> format
>>>
>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      an existing object (by adding TLVs) this breaks compatibility.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>>      stated that this wasn't the case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      FWIW:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Your document says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>          0                   1                   2                  =
 3
>>>>>>          0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9=
 0
>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>         |            Length             | Class-Num(37) |   C-Type(2=
)
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>         |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |      Reserved     | Link
>>>>>> Flags|
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>         |I|R|   Reserved    | Seg.Flags |           Reserved
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>         |
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>         ~                           sub-TLVs
>>>>>> ~
>>>>>>         |
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      RFC4872 says
>>>>>>            0                   1                   2
>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>            0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8=
 9
>>>>>> 0 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>           |            Length             | Class-Num(37) | C-Type (=
2)
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>           |S|P|N|O| Reserved  | LSP Flags |     Reserved      | Link
>>>>>> Flags|
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>           |                           Reserved
>>>>>> |
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Perhaps you meant C-Type(TBD).  You should address compatibilit=
y
>>>>>>      explicitly in any case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Lou
>>>>>
>>>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>>>      CCAMP mailing list
>>>>>      CCAMP@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
> --
> *****************************************************************
>               =E8=AF=B7=E8=AE=B0=E4=BD=8F=EF=BC=8C=E4=BD=A0=E6=98=AF=E7=
=8B=AC=E4=B8=80=E6=97=A0=E4=BA=8C=E7=9A=84=EF=BC=8C=E5=B0=B1=E5=83=8F=E5=85=
=B6=E4=BB=96=E6=AF=8F=E4=B8=80=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E4=B8=80=E6=A0=B7
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
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From rrao@infinera.com  Thu Nov 14 11:40:35 2013
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From: Rajan Rao <rrao@infinera.com>
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--_004_650AA355E323C34D9D4AAEED952E053D3FC14C70SVEXDBPROD1infi_--

From rgandhi@cisco.com  Thu Nov 14 16:30:09 2013
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From: "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] comments to draft-gandhi-ccamp-gmpls-restoration-lsp-01
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Thanks Xian for your review comments.

Please see inline.. <RG>..



On 2013-11-07 9:22 PM, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com> wrote:

>Hi, All,=20
>
>    Due to short of time, I post my questions to this draft here (based
>on the slides). =20
>
>1) what is the scope of this document? From the examples given, it seems
>to me only to end to end case. If it is not the intention, it would be
>good to clarify.=20


<RG> This is for end to end recovery case.



>
>2) Page 3 of the slides, last sentence.
>I do not think it is accurate. A restoration LSP can be established
>before failure as specified in RFC4872, unless you are targeting fully
>dynamic rerouting. So i think the following text in the draft need
>modification:
>
>"Restoration LSP differs from a secondary LSP
>   in the way that secondary LSP does not reserve resources in the data
>   plane and is not able to carry any traffic until it is refreshed
>   whereas restoration LSP does reserve resources and is able to carry
>   traffic."


<RG> We are targeting the fully dynamic rerouting case described in RFC
4872 and copied below.

"4) Full LSP rerouting (or restoration) switches normal traffic to an
      alternate LSP that is not even partially established until after
      the working LSP failure occurs.  The new alternate route is
      selected at the LSP head-end node, it may reuse resources of the
      failed LSP at intermediate nodes and may include additional
intermediate nodes and/or links."





>
>3) Page 8, the note.
>Could you point the exact piece of text saying this in RFC6689? At the
>moment, i cannot find it, thus cannot judge the need of this draft.


Slide should have said "Inferred from RFC6689" instead of "RFC6689 states".

RFC 6689 doesn't explicitly cover the case for "full rerouting" case (so
you will not find it and hence need for this clarification draft).


RFC 6689, Section 2.2 has following text which we used to infer that
restoration LSP may carry LSP-ID of itself.

"The Association ID carries one of three values:
      -  The LSP ID of the LSP being protected.
      -  The LSP ID of the protection LSP.
      -  In the case where the matching LSP is not yet known (i.e.,
initiated), the LSP ID value of the LSP itself."




>
>4) Page 9:=20
>4.1: It seems to me the draft are using the bit P different from what it
>is defined in  RFC4872. Since it is a BCP draft, i do not expect this.
>Please clarify.=20


<RG> There is no change proposed for the existing PROTECTION object (and P
bit) usage in this draft. I think it should be Informational draft and not
BCP.



>
>4.2: not sure why assign a restoration LSP for a protection LSP? If the
>intention is to protection two failures, assign one protection and one
>restoration LSP for the working LSP is probably a better way to do. Since
>the failure of protection LSP does not won't trigger any update in
>RSVP-TE.=20


<RG> If protection LSP fails, in full rerouting case, one would signal
restoration for the protection LSP to share/claim resources of the
protection LSP, no?


Thanks,
Rakesh



>
>
>Regards,
>Xian=20
>_______________________________________________
>CCAMP mailing list
>CCAMP@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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Hi George,

Apart from the difference between "CACHE" and "SAVE", it seems that you don=
't see any problem.=20

In addition, you can find a place to store so complex 5 tuplet information,=
 why there is no place to store simple Path Key?=20

Please make our logic more logical.=20


Best Regards

Fatai


-----Original Message-----
From: George Swallow (swallow) [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:44 AM
To: Fatai Zhang; Zafar Ali (zali); Zhangxian (Xian)
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; George Swallow (swallow)
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Fatai -

If a PCE is saving state, then in what way is it "stateless".  The text
you have below and along with Zafar's quote (from RFC5520) is of a PCE
that CACHEs the result (ERO segment) of a constrained path selection along
with the key it handed out.  As a path is signaled an LSR or (or perhaps
several LSRs) may contact PCEs using a path key to retrieve the path in
order to extend or complete the ERO.

But the PCE merely caches.  The only state that is saved for the life of
the LSP is at the LSR.

George

On 11/11/13 9:09 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com> wrote:

>Hi Zafar,
>
>It does not matter what it is.
>
>Do you see any problem for an element (a stateless PCE or NMS or even a
>node) to store path key information?
>
>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>can store lots of informaiton.
>
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>Fatai
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Zafar Ali (zali)
>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 11:58 AM
>To: Zhangxian (Xian)
>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>Hi Zhang:=20
>
>Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the
>PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16 bit path
>keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.
>
>
>The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the (path
>key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we call such
>PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the solution is not
>scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path info) states. Such
>limitations and requirements need to be clearly stated in the draft.
>
>Thanks
>
>Regards =A9 Zafar
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>>Hi, all,
>>
>>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
>>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
>>
>>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
>>"
>>.......
>>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and
>>provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the
>>latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the LSR
>>that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In
>>both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to
>>diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
>>"
>>
>>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
>>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw
>>information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00
>>incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and let us
>>know what you think.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Xian
>
>_______________________________________________
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>CCAMP@ietf.org
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>_______________________________________________
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From zali@cisco.com  Thu Nov 14 19:12:41 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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-----Original Message-----
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>can store lots of informaiton.
>

Fatai-=20

I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:

* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
more than one LSP per tunnel.
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
a Path Key.=20
* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
even be centralized.
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
server for the life time of the connections.
* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.

Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.

Thanks

Regards...Zafar=20

>


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Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi Xian:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Hi, Zafar,
>  =20
>   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
>16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK is
>needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for path
>diversity.

I disagree -=20

- How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.

>=20
>
>   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer time,
>even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue. PKS can be
>used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis

Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states" to
be stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is
stateful w.r.t. Path info states. Let's define a new term for such
stateful PCE and use it. Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep
path states for life time of the connection, why not just use stateful
PCE, instead?=20


>, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve the
>issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
>Do you agree?

No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the
network. If you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K LSPs
in the *entire network*. This does not fly.


> If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
>
>Regards,
>Xian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
>To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>>can store lots of informaiton.
>>
>
>Fatai-=20
>
>I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
>
>* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
>more than one LSP per tunnel.
>* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
>a Path Key.=20
>* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
>even be centralized.
>* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
>server for the life time of the connections.
>* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.
>
>Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before
>clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
>centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
>not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.
>
>Thanks
>
>Regards...Zafar=20
>
>>
>


From zali@cisco.com  Fri Nov 15 11:47:46 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>, "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi Fatai-=20

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar


<snip>
>
>Apart from the difference between "CACHE" and "SAVE", it seems that you
>don't see any problem.

There is a BIG difference than the words may suggest. Both from protocol
view point as well as PCE implementation view point.
- From protocol view point, in addition to other issues emailed earlier, I
also sent you/ Xian scalability concerns and your solution simply does not
work.=20
- From implementation point of view, the differences are as follows: a PCE
that caches the (path key, path info) state, does not need to worry high
availability cases. Your solution requires a PCE to make (path key, path
info) persistence across the life time of the LSP using this (path key,
path info) state.=20

>
>In addition, you can find a place to store so complex 5 tuplet
>information, why there is no place to store simple Path Key?

In addition to what is mentioned above:

1. All RSVP TE nodes that perform the ERO computation, already store the
ERO info for the LSP in the Path State block of the LSP. And that too for
the life time of the connection!
2. Use of 5 tuple (RSVP TE FEC) does not suffer from 16 bit path key
scaling issues I outlined in the other email chain.

>
>Please make our logic more logical.
>=20
>
>
>Best Regards
>
>Fatai
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: George Swallow (swallow) [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:44 AM
>To: Fatai Zhang; Zafar Ali (zali); Zhangxian (Xian)
>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; George Swallow (swallow)
>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>Fatai -
>
>If a PCE is saving state, then in what way is it "stateless".  The text
>you have below and along with Zafar's quote (from RFC5520) is of a PCE
>that CACHEs the result (ERO segment) of a constrained path selection along
>with the key it handed out.  As a path is signaled an LSR or (or perhaps
>several LSRs) may contact PCEs using a path key to retrieve the path in
>order to extend or complete the ERO.
>
>But the PCE merely caches.  The only state that is saved for the life of
>the LSP is at the LSR.
>
>George
>
>On 11/11/13 9:09 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi Zafar,
>>
>>It does not matter what it is.
>>
>>Do you see any problem for an element (a stateless PCE or NMS or even a
>>node) to store path key information?
>>
>>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>>can store lots of informaiton.
>>
>>
>>
>>Best Regards
>>
>>Fatai
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>>Zafar Ali (zali)
>>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 11:58 AM
>>To: Zhangxian (Xian)
>>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
>>RFC5553
>>
>>Hi Zhang:=20
>>
>>Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the
>>PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16 bit
>>path
>>keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.
>>
>>
>>The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the (path
>>key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we call such
>>PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the solution is not
>>scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path info) states. Such
>>limitations and requirements need to be clearly stated in the draft.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Regards =A9 Zafar
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>>Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
>>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
>>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>
>>>Hi, all,
>>>
>>>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
>>>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
>>>
>>>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
>>>"
>>>.......
>>>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS and
>>>provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.  In the
>>>latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained by the
>>>LSR
>>>that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime of the LSP.  In
>>>both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made available to
>>>diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
>>>"
>>>
>>>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
>>>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route, bw
>>>information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00
>>>incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and let
>>>us
>>>know what you think.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Xian
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>CCAMP mailing list
>>CCAMP@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>_______________________________________________
>>CCAMP mailing list
>>CCAMP@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi,
please see inline for comments.


On 15 November 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com> wrote:

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
> >Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
> >can store lots of informaiton.
> >
>
> Fatai-
>
> I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
>
> * Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
> more than one LSP per tunnel.
> * Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
> a Path Key.
>

I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not
each LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path
use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
> even be centralized.
> * You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
> server for the life time of the connections.
>

That is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using
the term statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to
a full LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.

* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.
>
> Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before
> clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
> centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
> not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.
>
> as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the
diversity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there
other problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a
PCE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already
defined).


Regards,
Cyril.

Thanks
>
> Regards...Zafar
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi, <br></div>please see inline for comments.<br><div=
><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 N=
ovember 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=
>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM<br>
To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;Zhangxian (Xian)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com">zhang=
.xian@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
<br>
&gt;Please don&#39;t argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPL=
S node<br>
&gt;can store lots of informaiton.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>Fatai-<br>
<br>
I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:<br>
<br>
* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be<br>
more than one LSP per tunnel.<br>
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs<b=
r>
a Path Key.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do not recall that each L=
SP needs a path key, each path does, but not each LSP. <br></div><div>So th=
e scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path use,=
 which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.<br>
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may<br>
even be centralized.<br>
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) &quot;state&quot; to be stored at=
 the PCE<br>
server for the life time of the connections.<br></blockquote><div><br>That =
is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using the te=
rm statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to a ful=
l LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.<br=
>
<br>
Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before<=
br>
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a<br>
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am<b=
r>
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k =
Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to support. <br></div><div>I=
n any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there ot=
her problem with that solution?<br>
</div><div>This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution (=
 deploy a PCE colocated with the LSR, only resolving=A0 PKS, the rest is al=
ready defined). <br><br><br></div><div>Regards, <br></div><div>Cyril.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks<br>
<br>
Regards...Zafar<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CCAMP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>,  "George Swallow (swallow)" <swallow@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
Thread-Index: AQHO2+75nyh5MwjjqEemfNXW9E7a+JobcMqAgAVubRCAARdQAIADqHAAgAExIYD///hXkA==
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References: <F82A4B6D50F9464B8EBA55651F541CF85CA8D104@SZXEMA504-MBS.china.huawei.com> <CEABD991.847AA%zali@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Zafar,

Lest we forget, I have already pointed out your solution not only requires =
more state but also requires that this state be kept at orders of magnitude=
 more nodes and that you have not said a word as to how to accomplish this.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Zafar Ali (zali)
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 11:48 AM
> To: Fatai Zhang; George Swallow (swallow); Zhangxian (Xian)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC555=
3
>=20
> Hi Fatai-
>=20
> Please see in-line.
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> Regards ... Zafar
>=20
>=20
> <snip>
> >
> >Apart from the difference between "CACHE" and "SAVE", it seems that you
> >don't see any problem.
>=20
> There is a BIG difference than the words may suggest. Both from protocol =
view
> point as well as PCE implementation view point.
> - From protocol view point, in addition to other issues emailed earlier, =
I also
> sent you/ Xian scalability concerns and your solution simply does not wor=
k.
> - From implementation point of view, the differences are as follows: a PC=
E that
> caches the (path key, path info) state, does not need to worry high avail=
ability
> cases. Your solution requires a PCE to make (path key, path
> info) persistence across the life time of the LSP using this (path key, p=
ath info)
> state.
>=20
> >
> >In addition, you can find a place to store so complex 5 tuplet
> >information, why there is no place to store simple Path Key?
>=20
> In addition to what is mentioned above:
>=20
> 1. All RSVP TE nodes that perform the ERO computation, already store the =
ERO
> info for the LSP in the Path State block of the LSP. And that too for the=
 life time
> of the connection!
> 2. Use of 5 tuple (RSVP TE FEC) does not suffer from 16 bit path key scal=
ing
> issues I outlined in the other email chain.
>=20
> >
> >Please make our logic more logical.
> >
> >
> >
> >Best Regards
> >
> >Fatai
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: George Swallow (swallow) [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 2:44 AM
> >To: Fatai Zhang; Zafar Ali (zali); Zhangxian (Xian)
> >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; George Swallow (swallow)
> >Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
> >RFC5553
> >
> >Fatai -
> >
> >If a PCE is saving state, then in what way is it "stateless".  The text
> >you have below and along with Zafar's quote (from RFC5520) is of a PCE
> >that CACHEs the result (ERO segment) of a constrained path selection
> >along with the key it handed out.  As a path is signaled an LSR or (or
> >perhaps several LSRs) may contact PCEs using a path key to retrieve the
> >path in order to extend or complete the ERO.
> >
> >But the PCE merely caches.  The only state that is saved for the life
> >of the LSP is at the LSR.
> >
> >George
> >
> >On 11/11/13 9:09 PM, "Fatai Zhang" <zhangfatai@huawei.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi Zafar,
> >>
> >>It does not matter what it is.
> >>
> >>Do you see any problem for an element (a stateless PCE or NMS or even
> >>a
> >>node) to store path key information?
> >>
> >>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS
> >>node can store lots of informaiton.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Best Regards
> >>
> >>Fatai
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> >>Of Zafar Ali (zali)
> >>Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 11:58 AM
> >>To: Zhangxian (Xian)
> >>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> >>Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
> >>RFC5553
> >>
> >>Hi Zhang:
> >>
> >>Section 2.1 from RFC5553 state: "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store
> >>the PKS for a period of 10 minutes." Furthermore, please note that 16
> >>bit path keys are used as reuse of the path key is assumed.
> >>
> >>
> >>The bottom line is that in your draft the PCE needs to remember the
> >>(path key, path info) "states" for "indefinite" time. If you like we
> >>call such PCE "path-stateful PCE" but it is stateful. Also, the
> >>solution is not scalable as a PCE can only hold 64K of (path key, path
> >>info) states. Such limitations and requirements need to be clearly stat=
ed in
> the draft.
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Regards =A9 Zafar
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> >>Date: Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM
> >>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
> >>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >>Subject: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >>
> >>>Hi, all,
> >>>
> >>>  The following is the piece of information that i mentioned already
> >>>require retaining the Path key information for the lifetime of LSP.
> >>>
> >>>Section 3.2 from RFC5553
> >>>"
> >>>.......
> >>>On a Path message, the PKS SHOULD identify the LSR replacing the CPS
> >>>and provide a Path Key that can be used to expand  the path segment.
> >>>In the latter case, the Path Key and its expansion SHOULD be retained
> >>>by the LSR that performs the substitution for at least the lifetime
> >>>of the LSP.  In both cases, the expansion of the PKS SHOULD be made
> >>>available to diagnostic tools under the control of local policy.
> >>>"
> >>>
> >>>My understanding of the stateful PCE (from PCE WG) is to have LSP-DB
> >>>documenting information such as the identifiers (the 5-tuple), route,
> >>>bw information etc. So I do not think our extensions defined in
> >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-
> >>>00 incur any new additional requirements. Please review our draft and
> >>>let us know what you think.
> >>>
> >>>Cheers,
> >>>Xian
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>CCAMP mailing list
> >>CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>CCAMP mailing list
> >>CCAMP@ietf.org
> >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>=20



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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:04:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Cyril,

A very nice note regarding a very nice draft.  I have a few questions for c=
larification, viz, is the reason why 'Path Key' is called that because it d=
eals with paths and not LSPs?  Given this, doesn't our 'stateful PCE thingy=
', as defined by Zafar, need to maintain path state and not LSP state?  Giv=
en the transient nature of LSPs doesn't this actually make a lot of sense?

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of C=
yril Margaria
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 12:09 PM
To: Zafar Ali (zali)
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Hi,
please see inline for comments.

On 15 November 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cis=
co.com>> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang=
.xian@huawei.com<mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>can store lots of informaiton.
>
Fatai-

I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:

* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
more than one LSP per tunnel.
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
a Path Key.

I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
even be centralized.
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
server for the life time of the connections.

That is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using t=
he term statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to =
a full LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.
* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.

Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.
as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

Regards,
Cyril.
Thanks

Regards...Zafar

>

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Cyril,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">A very nice note regardin=
g a very nice draft.&nbsp; I have a few questions for clarification, viz, i=
s the reason why &#8216;Path Key&#8217; is called that because it deals wit=
h
 paths and not LSPs?&nbsp; Given this, doesn&#8217;t our &#8216;stateful PC=
E thingy&#8217;, as defined by Zafar, need to maintain path state and not L=
SP state?&nbsp; Given the transient nature of LSPs doesn&#8217;t this actua=
lly make a lot of sense?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> ccamp-=
bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cyril Margaria<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 12:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zafar Ali (zali)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in R=
FC5553<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">please see inline for comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 15 November 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM<br>
To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;Zhangxian (Xian)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com">zhang=
.xian@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
<br>
&gt;Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS no=
de<br>
&gt;can store lots of informaiton.<br>
&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Fatai-<br>
<br>
I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:<br>
<br>
* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be<br>
more than one LSP per tunnel.<br>
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs<b=
r>
a Path Key.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each=
 path does, but not each LSP.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs,=
 but the amount of path use, which scale quite differently than the number =
of LSPs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (ser=
ver). PCE sever may<br>
even be centralized.<br>
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) &quot;state&quot; to be stored at=
 the PCE<br>
server for the life time of the connections.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
That is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using t=
he term statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to =
a full LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">* Path keys have hold=
-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.<br>
<br>
Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before<=
br>
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a<br>
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am<b=
r>
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k=
 Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to support.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In any case the scaling of the solution is to be con=
sidered, but is there other problem with that solution?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">This solution is attr=
active as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a PCE colocated with the=
 LSR, only resolving&nbsp; PKS, the rest is already defined).
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards, <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Cyril.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<br>
<br>
Regards...Zafar<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CCAMP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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From: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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From loa@pi.nu  Mon Nov 18 04:38:14 2013
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:37:28 -0500
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
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Zafar,

I did not check the actual number of hands either way, I just
wanted to clarify that I am comfortable with the response I had  to my 
from the chairs. It seems now that you say that the question asked 
irrelevant for the issue you have brought up.

/Loa

On 2013-11-12 16:21, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
> Hi Loa-
>
> Regardless, when Lou asked the question about how many people are in favor
> of WG taking on this work, we had a _fair_ number of support. IMO it will
> only be fair to now poll the mailing list for WG adaptation.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards Š Zafar
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
> Date: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:14 PM
> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "lberger@labn.net" <lberger@labn.net>,
> "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>
> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Confusion during show of hands for WG adaptation for
> draft-takacs-ccamp-revertive-ps
>
>> Zafar,
>>
>> I got a satisfactory answer from Lou. The point I made was that the
>> way the question was asked was that it included both people that were
>> absolutely against and people that did not care.
>>
>> Lou agreed that that was the case and that it was understood.
>>
>> /Loa
>>
>> On 2013-11-12 11:08, Zafar Ali (zali) wrote:
>>> Hi Lou-
>>>
>>> When you asked the question about how many people are in favor of WG
>>> taking on this work, we had a _fair_ number of support. Then there were
>>> some confusing question that Loa also came to mic for clarification. As
>>> we had to rush so much during WG meetings that there is not much time
>>> clarifying or debate these things during the WG meeting. IMO it will
>>> only be fair to ask the mailing list these questions so WG can show its
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Regards Š Zafar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CCAMP mailing list
>>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
>> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>

-- 


Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:56:07 +0000
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References: <C636AF2FA540124E9B9ACB5A6BECCE6B263E4E61@szxeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> <CEABD34B.84772%zali@cisco.com> <C636AF2FA540124E9B9ACB5A6BECCE6B2F839647@szxeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Xian,

As Cyril pointed out, Zafar does not understand that RFC 5553 deals with pa=
ths rather than with LSPs.  Hence his arguments wrt the lack of the scalabi=
lity of an RFC 5553 based solution are specious.=20

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Zhangxian (Xian)
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:22 AM
> To: Zafar Ali (zali)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC555=
3
>=20
> Hi, Zafar,
>=20
>     Let me summarize a bit, so that whoever follow our discussion are not=
 lost.
>=20
> 1st viewpoint: you still think that 16-bit PKS is not sufficient, since i=
t limits the
> number of a LSP within a network to be 64k.
> Our Reply: the purpose of this draft is to address the LSPs that across U=
NI
> and/or multi-domains, *NOT* the LSP within a network. Let's not argue
> theoretically it can be any number for the former. From current deploymen=
t, it
> is far from enough. Besides, we also provide a PKS+ first node of the enc=
ode
> segment as an alternative for the problem you worry much about, is it
> enough?
>=20
> 2nd viewpoint: you believe that the PCE needs to store the PKS informatio=
n
> longer than required as RFC5520 and you would like to give a name to it.
> Our reply: We get your point and will add into our draft this information=
, as you
> suggested. However, we disagree to use the term "stateful" since people
> already accept the definition of stateful PCE in PCE WG. Also, it is mean=
ingless
> to argue on the terminologies as long as we make the point clear in the d=
raft.
> Please do not forget that the border node can be the "PCE" for decoding t=
he PK
> (which you should be much aware of), storing such information is not an
> problem. Having said that, our draft do not limit the model of how PKS is
> decoded.
>=20
>   As usual, we can agree to disagree, but I think we both have made the p=
oint
> clear enough till now.
>=20
>   Please do not forget the reason we write this draft. As you John alread=
y
> mentioned, we do not see any description in draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversit=
y
> about how the border node can decode the sub-object defined upon receivin=
g
> the path diversity constraint, thus there is NO complete solution in your=
 draft. I
> vaguely remember you mentioned a proprietary method for doing so, do you
> mean that whoever implement draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity are forced to
> need to consult the draft authors for a complete solution? Please conside=
r this
> in the next update of this draft.
>=20
>=20
> Cheers,
> Xian(on behalf of all co-authors of the draft draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exc=
lusion-
> pathkey)
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B16=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:56
> To: Zhangxian (Xian); Fatai Zhang
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>=20
> Hi Xian:
>=20
> Please see in-line.
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>=20
> >Hi, Zafar,
> >
> >   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
> >16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK is
> >needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for path
> >diversity.
>=20
> I disagree -
>=20
> - How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
> diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP=
1 at t1.
> How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be request=
ing
> diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
>=20
> >
> >
> >   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer time,
> >even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue. PKS can
> >be used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis
>=20
> Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states" to =
be
> stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is stat=
eful w.r.t.
> Path info states. Let's define a new term for such stateful PCE and use i=
t.
> Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep path states for life ti=
me of
> the connection, why not just use stateful PCE, instead?
>=20
>=20
> >, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve
> >the issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
> >Do you agree?
>=20
> No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the netwo=
rk. If
> you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K LSPs in the *en=
tire
> network*. This does not fly.
>=20
>=20
> > If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Xian
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> >Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
> >To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
> >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> >Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> >Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
> >To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> >Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >
> >>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS
> >>node can store lots of informaiton.
> >>
> >
> >Fatai-
> >
> >I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
> >
> >* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
> >more than one LSP per tunnel.
> >* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP
> >needs a Path Key.
> >* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
> >even be centralized.
> >* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the
> >PCE server for the life time of the connections.
> >* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.
> >
> >Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much
> >before clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you
> >have a centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE
> >NETWORK! I am not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions=
.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Regards...Zafar
> >
> >>
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CCAMP mailing list
> CCAMP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


From zali@cisco.com  Mon Nov 18 09:52:40 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
Thread-Index: AQHO2+75nyh5MwjjqEemfNXW9E7a+JobcMqAgAVubRCABNrUAIABb9qAgAQ7fwA=
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Cyrill-

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.=
com>>
Date: Friday, November 15, 2013 3:09 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
Cc: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>, "Zha=
ngxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com<mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com>>, "ccam=
p@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Hi,
please see inline for comments.


On 15 November 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cis=
co.com>> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com<mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com>>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang=
.xian@huawei.com<mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS node
>can store lots of informaiton.
>

Fatai-

I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:

* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
more than one LSP per tunnel.
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
a Path Key.

I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

I just responded to the same confusion in the other email =96 sorry for the=
 duplicate.

  *
How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.


* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
even be centralized.
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
server for the life time of the connections.

That is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using t=
he term statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to =
a full LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.

Yes, we need a new term for such stateful PCEs. Let's call it "path-statefu=
l" PCE.


* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.

Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.

as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

If we are using "path-stateful" PCE, why not use "stateful" PCE.



Regards,
Cyril.

Thanks

Regards...Zafar

>

_______________________________________________
CCAMP mailing list
CCAMP@ietf.org<mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp


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252">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div>
<div>Cyrill-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please see in-line.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Cyril Margaria &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com">cyril.margaria@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, November 15, 2013 3:0=
9 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@huawei.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Zhangxian (X=
ian)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com">zhang.xian@huawei.c=
om</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot=
;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [CCAMP] The descriptio=
n of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi, <br>
</div>
please see inline for comments.<br>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 15 November 2013 04:12, Zafar Ali (zali) <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">zali@cisco.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Fatai Zhang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhangfatai@huawei.com">zhangfatai@h=
uawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM<br>
To: zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, &quo=
t;Zhangxian (Xian)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhang.xian@huawei.com">zhang=
.xian@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
<br>
&gt;Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS no=
de<br>
&gt;can store lots of informaiton.<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div>
Fatai-<br>
<br>
I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:<br>
<br>
* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be<br>
more than one LSP per tunnel.<br>
* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs<b=
r>
a Path Key.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but no=
t each LSP.
<br>
</div>
<div>So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of=
 path use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just responded to the same confusion in the other email =96 sorry fo=
r the duplicate.&nbsp;</div>
<ul>
<li>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; ">How would PCC or P=
CE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; ">diversity by anoth=
er LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; ">at t1. How would P=
CC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium; ">requesting diversi=
ty from LSP1 at a future time t2.</div>
</li></ul>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may<br>
even be centralized.<br>
* You are requiring (Path key, path info) &quot;state&quot; to be stored at=
 the PCE<br>
server for the life time of the connections.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
That is correct, the PCE need to keep a state on the path used, but using t=
he term statefull in that case is confusing and misleading, as its tied to =
a full LSP DB. TED itself is a state too.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, we need a new term for such stateful PCEs. Let's call it &quot;pa=
th-stateful&quot; PCE.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.<br=
>
<br>
Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much before<=
br>
clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a<br>
centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am<b=
r>
not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div>as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the =
diversity constraint you want to support.
<br>
</div>
<div>In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is th=
ere other problem with that solution?<br>
</div>
<div>This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deplo=
y a PCE colocated with the LSR, only resolving&nbsp; PKS, the rest is alrea=
dy defined).
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If we are using&nbsp;&quot;path-stateful&quot; PCE, why not use &quot;=
stateful&quot; PCE.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Regards, <br>
</div>
<div>Cyril.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks<br>
<br>
Regards...Zafar<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CCAMP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CCAMP@ietf.org">CCAMP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEABEE0B8487Bzaliciscocom_--

From zali@cisco.com  Mon Nov 18 10:32:11 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
Thread-Index: AQHO2+75nyh5MwjjqEemfNXW9E7a+JobcMqAgAVubRCABNrUAP//8xawgAEUZ4CAA+mkAIAAxtOA
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi Xian:

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:22 AM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Hi, Zafar,=20
>
>    Let me summarize a bit, so that whoever follow our discussion are not
>lost.=20
>
>1st viewpoint: you still think that 16-bit PKS is not sufficient, since
>it limits the number of a LSP within a network to be 64k.
>Our Reply: the purpose of this draft is to address the LSPs that across
>UNI and/or multi-domains, *NOT* the LSP within a network.

You dogged my question:

How can PCE differentiate between requests that require path keys to be
persistent for life time of LSP vs. LSPs that require path keys during LSP
setup only?=20
This couple with the following still present a Scaling issue with your
solution:=20
+ How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.


note: Path info expiry timer is same for all types of requests/ LSPs.
Hence, I still see the scaling issue.


You also did not answer why we cannot use stateful PCE, instead.

>Let's not argue theoretically it can be any number for the former.

This is not a theoretically discussion.

>From current deployment, it is far from enough. Besides, we also provide
>a PKS+ first node of the encode segment as an alternative for the problem
>you worry much about, is it enough?
>
>2nd viewpoint: you believe that the PCE needs to store the PKS
>information longer than required as RFC5520 and you would like to give a
>name to it.
>Our reply: We get your point and will add into our draft this
>information, as you suggested. However, we disagree to use the term
>"stateful" since people already accept the definition of stateful PCE in
>PCE WG.=20

I agree and I did mention that let's define a new term. I suggested
"path-stateful" PCE.

>Also, it is meaningless to argue on the terminologies as long as we make
>the point clear in the draft. Please do not forget that the border node
>can be the "PCE" for decoding the PK (which you should be much aware of),
>storing such information is not an problem. Having said that, our draft
>do not limit the model of how PKS is decoded.
>
>  As usual, we can agree to disagree, but I think we both have made the
>point clear enough till now.
>
>  Please do not forget the reason we write this draft. As you John
>already mentioned, we do not see any description in
>draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity about how the border node can decode the
>sub-object defined upon receiving the path diversity constraint, thus
>there is NO complete solution in your draft. I vaguely remember you
>mentioned a proprietary method for doing so, do you mean that whoever
>implement draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity are forced to need to consult
>the draft authors for a complete solution? Please consider this in the
>next update of this draft.
>
>
>Cheers,
>Xian(on behalf of all co-authors of the draft
>draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B16=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:56
>To: Zhangxian (Xian); Fatai Zhang
>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>Hi Xian:
>
>Please see in-line.
>
>Thanks
>
>Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>
>>Hi, Zafar,
>>  =20
>>   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
>>16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK is
>>needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for path
>>diversity.
>
>I disagree -=20
>
>- How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
>diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
>at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
>requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
>
>>=20
>>
>>   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer time,
>>even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue. PKS can be
>>used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis
>
>Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states" to
>be stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is
>stateful w.r.t. Path info states. Let's define a new term for such
>stateful PCE and use it. Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep
>path states for life time of the connection, why not just use stateful
>PCE, instead?=20
>
>
>>, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve the
>>issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
>>Do you agree?
>
>No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the
>network. If you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K LSPs
>in the *entire network*. This does not fly.
>
>
>> If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Xian
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>>Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
>>To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
>>Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>>Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>>Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
>>To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>>Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>>Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>
>>>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS
>>>node
>>>can store lots of informaiton.
>>>
>>
>>Fatai-=20
>>
>>I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
>>
>>* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
>>more than one LSP per tunnel.
>>* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP needs
>>a Path Key.=20
>>* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
>>even be centralized.
>>* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the PCE
>>server for the life time of the connections.
>>* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be reused.
>>
>>Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much
>>before
>>clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you have a
>>centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE NETWORK! I am
>>not sure why you want to ignore these scaling restrictions.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Regards...Zafar=20
>>
>>>
>>
>


From jdrake@juniper.net  Mon Nov 18 10:39:34 2013
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
Thread-Index: AQHO2+75nyh5MwjjqEemfNXW9E7a+JobcMqAgAVubRCABNrUAIABC0WAgASPKYCAAAd7gA==
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:24:18 +0000
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References: <CADOd8-swb-0ZRzUEWZMXuVQ-HPuo9Qv0wrqe_dEQ_nHgh8md0A@mail.gmail.com> <CEABEE0B.8487B%zali@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Snipped, comment inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John


I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

I just responded to the same confusion in the other email - sorry for the d=
uplicate.

  *   How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
[JD]   A PCE would return a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.  When LSP2 =
is signaled, it would include that path key along w/ an indication of wheth=
er LSP2 is to be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.  Btw, =
as has been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one shou=
ld request LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe can be used.
Perhaps the WG should be developing the signaling to support this.
as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

If we are using "path-stateful" PCE, why not use "stateful" PCE.

[JD]  Because it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meani=
ng?

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Snipped, comment inline<o=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I do not recall that each L=
SP needs a path key, each path does, but not each LSP.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">So the scalability is not r=
elated to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path use, which scale quite dif=
ferently than the number of LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I just responded to the sam=
e confusion in the other email &#8211; sorry for the duplicate.&nbsp;<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used=
 for<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., i=
f you are signaling LSP1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some ot=
her LSP (LSP2) will be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD] &nbsp;&nbsp;A PCE would retu=
rn a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.&nbsp; When LSP2 is signaled, it
 would include that path key along w/ an indication of whether LSP2 is to b=
e disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.&nbsp; Btw, as has bee=
n noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one should request=
 LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe
 can be used. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps the WG should be developi=
ng the signaling to support this.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11=
.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">as stated before, you would=
 support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to=
 support.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">In any case the scaling of =
the solution is to be considered, but is there other problem with that solu=
tion?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This solution is attractive=
 as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a PCE colocated with the LSR, =
only resolving&nbsp; PKS, the rest is already defined).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">If we are using&nbsp;&quot;=
path-stateful&quot; PCE, why not use &quot;stateful&quot; PCE.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; Because =
it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meaning?
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:59:02 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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John:=20

Can you advise what assumptions can be made between Paths served by the
PCE and LSPs using those paths to justify your (hostile) assertion that I
do not understand scalability of
draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00? E.g., if you assume Path
<--> LSP is 1:M, what is value of M we can assume in debating scaling of
the draft under discussion? Please also see my recent response to Xian.

n.b. BTW I was commenting on scaling issue with
draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00.txt and not RFC 5553. We are
having technical discussion in a friendly environment. But I am
consistently seeing degrading comments or personal attacks from you :(.

Thanks

Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:56 AM
To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Xian,
>
>As Cyril pointed out, Zafar does not understand that RFC 5553 deals with
>paths rather than with LSPs.  Hence his arguments wrt the lack of the
>scalability of an RFC 5553 based solution are specious.
>
>Yours Irrespectively,
>
>John
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of Zhangxian (Xian)
>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:22 AM
>> To: Zafar Ali (zali)
>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
>>RFC5553
>>=20
>> Hi, Zafar,
>>=20
>>     Let me summarize a bit, so that whoever follow our discussion are
>>not lost.
>>=20
>> 1st viewpoint: you still think that 16-bit PKS is not sufficient, since
>>it limits the
>> number of a LSP within a network to be 64k.
>> Our Reply: the purpose of this draft is to address the LSPs that across
>>UNI
>> and/or multi-domains, *NOT* the LSP within a network. Let's not argue
>> theoretically it can be any number for the former. From current
>>deployment, it
>> is far from enough. Besides, we also provide a PKS+ first node of the
>>encode
>> segment as an alternative for the problem you worry much about, is it
>> enough?
>>=20
>> 2nd viewpoint: you believe that the PCE needs to store the PKS
>>information
>> longer than required as RFC5520 and you would like to give a name to it.
>> Our reply: We get your point and will add into our draft this
>>information, as you
>> suggested. However, we disagree to use the term "stateful" since people
>> already accept the definition of stateful PCE in PCE WG. Also, it is
>>meaningless
>> to argue on the terminologies as long as we make the point clear in the
>>draft.
>> Please do not forget that the border node can be the "PCE" for decoding
>>the PK
>> (which you should be much aware of), storing such information is not an
>> problem. Having said that, our draft do not limit the model of how PKS
>>is
>> decoded.
>>=20
>>   As usual, we can agree to disagree, but I think we both have made the
>>point
>> clear enough till now.
>>=20
>>   Please do not forget the reason we write this draft. As you John
>>already
>> mentioned, we do not see any description in
>>draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity
>> about how the border node can decode the sub-object defined upon
>>receiving
>> the path diversity constraint, thus there is NO complete solution in
>>your draft. I
>> vaguely remember you mentioned a proprietary method for doing so, do you
>> mean that whoever implement draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity are forced to
>> need to consult the draft authors for a complete solution? Please
>>consider this
>> in the next update of this draft.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Xian(on behalf of all co-authors of the draft
>>draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-
>> pathkey)
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B16=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:56
>> To: Zhangxian (Xian); Fatai Zhang
>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>=20
>> Hi Xian:
>>=20
>> Please see in-line.
>>=20
>> Thanks
>>=20
>> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>> Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
>> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>=20
>> >Hi, Zafar,
>> >
>> >   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
>> >16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK is
>> >needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for path
>> >diversity.
>>=20
>> I disagree -
>>=20
>> - How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
>> diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling
>>LSP1 at t1.
>> How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
>>requesting
>> diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
>>=20
>> >
>> >
>> >   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer time,
>> >even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue. PKS can
>> >be used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis
>>=20
>> Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states"
>>to be
>> stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is
>>stateful w.r.t.
>> Path info states. Let's define a new term for such stateful PCE and use
>>it.
>> Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep path states for life
>>time of
>> the connection, why not just use stateful PCE, instead?
>>=20
>>=20
>> >, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve
>> >the issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
>> >Do you agree?
>>=20
>> No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the
>>network. If
>> you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K LSPs in the
>>*entire
>> network*. This does not fly.
>>=20
>>=20
>> > If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Xian
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>> >Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
>> >To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
>> >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> >Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> >Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
>> >To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>> >Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >
>> >>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a GMPLS
>> >>node can store lots of informaiton.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Fatai-
>> >
>> >I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
>> >
>> >* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can be
>> >more than one LSP per tunnel.
>> >* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP
>> >needs a Path Key.
>> >* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever may
>> >even be centralized.
>> >* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at the
>> >PCE server for the life time of the connections.
>> >* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be
>>reused.
>> >
>> >Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much
>> >before clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if you
>> >have a centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN THE
>> >NETWORK! I am not sure why you want to ignore these scaling
>>restrictions.
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >
>> >Regards...Zafar
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CCAMP mailing list
>> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>


From zali@cisco.com  Mon Nov 18 11:07:42 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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John-

I understand that but my point was that draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-p=
athkey-00 requires path info to be persistent across the life time of the c=
onnection. Also there is no way to differentiate which LSP will require pat=
h info to be persistent vs. requests for which Path info can be purged.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:24 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Snipped, comment inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John


I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

I just responded to the same confusion in the other email =96 sorry for the=
 duplicate.

  *   How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
[JD]   A PCE would return a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.  When LSP2 =
is signaled, it would include that path key along w/ an indication of wheth=
er LSP2 is to be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.  Btw, =
as has been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one shou=
ld request LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe can be used.
Perhaps the WG should be developing the signaling to support this.
as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

If we are using "path-stateful" PCE, why not use "stateful" PCE.

[JD]  Because it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meani=
ng?

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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
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<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; ">
<div>
<div>
<div>John-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I understand that but my point was that&nbsp;draft-zhang-ccamp-route-e=
xclusion-pathkey-00 requires path info to be persistent across the life tim=
e of the connection. Also there is no way to differentiate which LSP will r=
equire&nbsp;path info to be persistent vs.
 requests for which Path info can be purged.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 18, 2013 1:2=
4 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Cyril Margaria &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cy=
ril.margaria@gmail.com">cyril.margaria@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [CCAMP] The descriptio=
n of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
</div>
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Snipped, comment inline<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I do not recall that each LSP needs a path =
key, each path does, but not each LSP.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">So the scalability is not related to amount=
 of LSPs, but the amount of path use, which scale quite differently than th=
e number of LSPs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I just responded to the same confusion in t=
he other email =96 sorry for the duplicate.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">How w=
ould PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signal=
ing LSP1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) w=
ill be<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD] &nbsp;&nbsp;A PCE would return a path=
 key to the initiator of LSP 1.&nbsp; When LSP2 is signaled,
 it would include that path key along w/ an indication of whether LSP2 is t=
o be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.&nbsp; Btw, as has =
been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one should requ=
est LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe
 can be used. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps the WG should be developing the si=
gnaling to support this.</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font=
-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">as stated before, you would support a maxim=
um of 64k Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to support.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">In any case the scaling of the solution is =
to be considered, but is there other problem with that solution?<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">This solution is attractive as it provides =
a complete solution ( deploy a PCE colocated with the LSR, only resolving&n=
bsp; PKS, the rest is already defined).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">If we are using&nbsp;&quot;path-stateful&qu=
ot; PCE, why not use &quot;stateful&quot; PCE.</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD]&nbsp; Because it is an =
already defined term w/ a completely different meaning?
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEAFCEF8859E0zaliciscocom_--

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Zafar,

A given PCE can maintain path state for 64K paths.  Since it is keeping pat=
h state it does not need to keep *any* LSP state.  This is simply RFC5553 b=
ehavior.  =20

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:59 AM
> To: John E Drake; Zhangxian (Xian)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>=20
> John:
>=20
> Can you advise what assumptions can be made between Paths served by the
> PCE and LSPs using those paths to justify your (hostile) assertion that I=
 do not
> understand scalability of draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00? E=
.g.,
> if you assume Path <--> LSP is 1:M, what is value of M we can assume in
> debating scaling of the draft under discussion? Please also see my recent
> response to Xian.
>=20
> n.b. BTW I was commenting on scaling issue with draft-zhang-ccamp-route-
> exclusion-pathkey-00.txt and not RFC 5553. We are having technical discus=
sion
> in a friendly environment. But I am consistently seeing degrading comment=
s or
> personal attacks from you :(.
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
> Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:56 AM
> To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>
> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>=20
> >Xian,
> >
> >As Cyril pointed out, Zafar does not understand that RFC 5553 deals
> >with paths rather than with LSPs.  Hence his arguments wrt the lack of
> >the scalability of an RFC 5553 based solution are specious.
> >
> >Yours Irrespectively,
> >
> >John
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >>Behalf  Of Zhangxian (Xian)
> >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:22 AM
> >> To: Zafar Ali (zali)
> >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
> >>RFC5553
> >>
> >> Hi, Zafar,
> >>
> >>     Let me summarize a bit, so that whoever follow our discussion are
> >>not lost.
> >>
> >> 1st viewpoint: you still think that 16-bit PKS is not sufficient,
> >>since it limits the  number of a LSP within a network to be 64k.
> >> Our Reply: the purpose of this draft is to address the LSPs that
> >>across UNI  and/or multi-domains, *NOT* the LSP within a network.
> >>Let's not argue  theoretically it can be any number for the former.
> >>From current deployment, it  is far from enough. Besides, we also
> >>provide a PKS+ first node of the encode  segment as an alternative for
> >>the problem you worry much about, is it  enough?
> >>
> >> 2nd viewpoint: you believe that the PCE needs to store the PKS
> >>information  longer than required as RFC5520 and you would like to
> >>give a name to it.
> >> Our reply: We get your point and will add into our draft this
> >>information, as you  suggested. However, we disagree to use the term
> >>"stateful" since people  already accept the definition of stateful PCE
> >>in PCE WG. Also, it is meaningless  to argue on the terminologies as
> >>long as we make the point clear in the draft.
> >> Please do not forget that the border node can be the "PCE" for
> >>decoding the PK  (which you should be much aware of), storing such
> >>information is not an  problem. Having said that, our draft do not
> >>limit the model of how PKS is  decoded.
> >>
> >>   As usual, we can agree to disagree, but I think we both have made
> >>the point  clear enough till now.
> >>
> >>   Please do not forget the reason we write this draft. As you John
> >>already  mentioned, we do not see any description in
> >>draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity  about how the border node can decode
> >>the sub-object defined upon receiving  the path diversity constraint,
> >>thus there is NO complete solution in your draft. I  vaguely remember
> >>you mentioned a proprietary method for doing so, do you  mean that
> >>whoever implement draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity are forced to  need
> >>to consult the draft authors for a complete solution? Please consider
> >>this  in the next update of this draft.
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Xian(on behalf of all co-authors of the draft
> >>draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-
> >> pathkey)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> >> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B16=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:56
> >> To: Zhangxian (Xian); Fatai Zhang
> >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >>
> >> Hi Xian:
> >>
> >> Please see in-line.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> >> Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
> >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >>
> >> >Hi, Zafar,
> >> >
> >> >   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
> >> >16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK
> >> >is needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for
> >> >path diversity.
> >>
> >> I disagree -
> >>
> >> - How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
> >>diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling
> >>LSP1 at t1.
> >> How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
> >>requesting  diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer
> >> >time, even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue.
> >> >PKS can be used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis
> >>
> >> Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states"
> >>to be
> >> stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is
> >>stateful w.r.t.
> >> Path info states. Let's define a new term for such stateful PCE and
> >>use it.
> >> Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep path states for
> >>life time of  the connection, why not just use stateful PCE, instead?
> >>
> >>
> >> >, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve
> >> >the issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
> >> >Do you agree?
> >>
> >> No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the
> >>network. If  you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K
> >>LSPs in the *entire  network*. This does not fly.
> >>
> >>
> >> > If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
> >> >
> >> >Regards,
> >> >Xian
> >> >
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> >> >Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
> >> >To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
> >> >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> >> >Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
> >> >Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
> >> >To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)"
> >> ><zhang.xian@huawei.com>
> >> >Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
> >> >Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
> >> >
> >> >>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a
> >> >>GMPLS node can store lots of informaiton.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Fatai-
> >> >
> >> >I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
> >> >
> >> >* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can
> >> >be more than one LSP per tunnel.
> >> >* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP
> >> >needs a Path Key.
> >> >* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever
> >> >may even be centralized.
> >> >* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at
> >> >the PCE server for the life time of the connections.
> >> >* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be
> >>reused.
> >> >
> >> >Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much
> >> >before clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if
> >> >you have a centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN
> >> >THE NETWORK! I am not sure why you want to ignore these scaling
> >>restrictions.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks
> >> >
> >> >Regards...Zafar
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CCAMP mailing list
> >> CCAMP@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
> >
>=20
>=20



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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:08 AM
To: John E Drake; Cyril Margaria
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

John-

I understand that but my point was that draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-p=
athkey-00 requires path info to be persistent across the life time of the c=
onnection.

[JD]  It doesn't say that.  However, given that a PCE maintains path state =
and not LSP state, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume that a path key i=
s valid for the duration of an LSP's existence, modulo changes in the serve=
r network topology that invalidate it.  Also, although it is extremely unli=
kely that the path state would be deleted, nothing breaks if it is deleted.=
  The network is simply unable to compute a disjoint route, which can also =
happen for a variety of other reasons.

Also there is no way to differentiate which LSP will require path info to b=
e persistent vs. requests for which Path info can be purged.

[JD]  Given that a PCE maintains path state and not LSP state, why would it=
 care?

Thanks

Regards ... Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:24 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Snipped, comment inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John


I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

I just responded to the same confusion in the other email - sorry for the d=
uplicate.

  *   How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
[JD]   A PCE would return a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.  When LSP2 =
is signaled, it would include that path key along w/ an indication of wheth=
er LSP2 is to be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.  Btw, =
as has been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one shou=
ld request LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe can be used.
Perhaps the WG should be developing the signaling to support this.
as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

If we are using "path-stateful" PCE, why not use "stateful" PCE.

[JD]  Because it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meani=
ng?

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Comments inline.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Zafar =
Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 18, 2013 11:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Cyril Margaria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ccamp@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in R=
FC5553<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">John-&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I understand that but my po=
int was that&nbsp;draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 requires pat=
h info to be persistent across the life time of the connection.</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; It doesn=
&#8217;t say that.&nbsp; However, given that a PCE maintains path state and=
 not LSP state, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume that a path key is
 valid for the duration of an LSP&#8217;s existence, modulo changes in the =
server network topology that invalidate it.&nbsp; Also, although it is extr=
emely unlikely that the path state would be deleted, nothing breaks if it i=
s deleted.&nbsp; The network is simply unable to
 compute a disjoint route, which can also happen for a variety of other rea=
sons. <o:p>
</o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Also there is no way to dif=
ferentiate which LSP will require&nbsp;path info to be persistent vs. reque=
sts for which Path info can be purged.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; Given th=
at a PCE maintains path state and not LSP state, why would it care?&nbsp;
</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Regards &#8230; Zafar<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.=
net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net"=
>jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 18, 2013 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, Cyril Margaria &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com">cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in R=
FC5553<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Snipped, comment inline</=
span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yours Irrespectively,</sp=
an><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">John</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I do not recall that each L=
SP needs a path key, each path does, but not each LSP.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">So the scalability is not r=
elated to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path use, which scale quite dif=
ferently than the number of LSPs.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I just responded to the sam=
e confusion in the other email &#8211; sorry for the duplicate.&nbsp;</span=
><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used=
 for</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., i=
f you are signaling LSP1</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some ot=
her LSP (LSP2) will be</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:black">requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2=
.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD] &nbsp;&nbsp;A PCE would retu=
rn a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.&nbsp; When LSP2 is signaled, it
 would include that path key along w/ an indication of whether LSP2 is to b=
e disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.&nbsp; Btw, as has bee=
n noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one should request=
 LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe
 can be used. </span></i></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps the WG should be developi=
ng the signaling to support this.</span></i></b><span style=3D"color:black"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">as stated before, you would=
 support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to=
 support.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">In any case the scaling of =
the solution is to be considered, but is there other problem with that solu=
tion?</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">This solution is attractive=
 as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a PCE colocated with the LSR, =
only resolving&nbsp; PKS, the rest is already defined).
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">If we are using&nbsp;&quot;=
path-stateful&quot; PCE, why not use &quot;stateful&quot; PCE.</span><span =
style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></i></=
b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; Because =
it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meaning?
</span></i></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi John-=20

So you agree that a PCE cannot support more than 64K Paths. In a
centralized PCE environment this would mean 64K Path states for the entire
network. If I would assume M =3D1 (I asked a question for M; you can pick
some other M) this would mean that *network* cannot served more than 64K
LSPs. Recall this scaling restriction is not with RFC5553 (as RFC5553
RECOMMENDS path info to be purged after 10 mins). This restriction comes
from draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00, which requires path
info to be saved for the life of an LSP (using it).

Given that Path to "LSPs using the Path" is not stored at (stateless) PCE,
how would PCE ever be able to purge the Path state? We keep saying for
life time of the connection but how would PCE know (all) client(s) has
(have) deleted the LSP in question? I.e., how would (and when) PCE be able
to purge the Path states? Again RFC5553 RECOMMENDS a simple (10 min) timer
based mechanism, which does not work for
draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00.

Thanks

Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar


-----Original Message-----
From: "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 2:28 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

>Zafar,
>
>A given PCE can maintain path state for 64K paths.  Since it is keeping
>path state it does not need to keep *any* LSP state.  This is simply
>RFC5553 behavior.=20
>
>Yours Irrespectively,
>
>John
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:59 AM
>> To: John E Drake; Zhangxian (Xian)
>> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>=20
>> John:
>>=20
>> Can you advise what assumptions can be made between Paths served by the
>> PCE and LSPs using those paths to justify your (hostile) assertion that
>>I do not
>> understand scalability of draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00?
>>E.g.,
>> if you assume Path <--> LSP is 1:M, what is value of M we can assume in
>> debating scaling of the draft under discussion? Please also see my
>>recent
>> response to Xian.
>>=20
>> n.b. BTW I was commenting on scaling issue with draft-zhang-ccamp-route-
>> exclusion-pathkey-00.txt and not RFC 5553. We are having technical
>>discussion
>> in a friendly environment. But I am consistently seeing degrading
>>comments or
>> personal attacks from you :(.
>>=20
>> Thanks
>>=20
>> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "jdrake@juniper.net" <jdrake@juniper.net>
>> Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 8:56 AM
>> To: "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>
>> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>>=20
>> >Xian,
>> >
>> >As Cyril pointed out, Zafar does not understand that RFC 5553 deals
>> >with paths rather than with LSPs.  Hence his arguments wrt the lack of
>> >the scalability of an RFC 5553 based solution are specious.
>> >
>> >Yours Irrespectively,
>> >
>> >John
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> >>Behalf  Of Zhangxian (Xian)
>> >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:22 AM
>> >> To: Zafar Ali (zali)
>> >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in
>> >>RFC5553
>> >>
>> >> Hi, Zafar,
>> >>
>> >>     Let me summarize a bit, so that whoever follow our discussion are
>> >>not lost.
>> >>
>> >> 1st viewpoint: you still think that 16-bit PKS is not sufficient,
>> >>since it limits the  number of a LSP within a network to be 64k.
>> >> Our Reply: the purpose of this draft is to address the LSPs that
>> >>across UNI  and/or multi-domains, *NOT* the LSP within a network.
>> >>Let's not argue  theoretically it can be any number for the former.
>> >>From current deployment, it  is far from enough. Besides, we also
>> >>provide a PKS+ first node of the encode  segment as an alternative for
>> >>the problem you worry much about, is it  enough?
>> >>
>> >> 2nd viewpoint: you believe that the PCE needs to store the PKS
>> >>information  longer than required as RFC5520 and you would like to
>> >>give a name to it.
>> >> Our reply: We get your point and will add into our draft this
>> >>information, as you  suggested. However, we disagree to use the term
>> >>"stateful" since people  already accept the definition of stateful PCE
>> >>in PCE WG. Also, it is meaningless  to argue on the terminologies as
>> >>long as we make the point clear in the draft.
>> >> Please do not forget that the border node can be the "PCE" for
>> >>decoding the PK  (which you should be much aware of), storing such
>> >>information is not an  problem. Having said that, our draft do not
>> >>limit the model of how PKS is  decoded.
>> >>
>> >>   As usual, we can agree to disagree, but I think we both have made
>> >>the point  clear enough till now.
>> >>
>> >>   Please do not forget the reason we write this draft. As you John
>> >>already  mentioned, we do not see any description in
>> >>draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity  about how the border node can decode
>> >>the sub-object defined upon receiving  the path diversity constraint,
>> >>thus there is NO complete solution in your draft. I  vaguely remember
>> >>you mentioned a proprietary method for doing so, do you  mean that
>> >>whoever implement draft-ietf-ccamp-lsp-diversity are forced to  need
>> >>to consult the draft authors for a complete solution? Please consider
>> >>this  in the next update of this draft.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Xian(on behalf of all co-authors of the draft
>> >>draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-
>> >> pathkey)
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>> >> Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B16=1B$BF|=1B(B 2:56
>> >> To: Zhangxian (Xian); Fatai Zhang
>> >> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >>
>> >> Hi Xian:
>> >>
>> >> Please see in-line.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Regards =1B$B!D=1B(B Zafar
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: "Zhangxian   (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>> >> Date: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:43 PM
>> >> To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> >> Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >> Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >>
>> >> >Hi, Zafar,
>> >> >
>> >> >   Thank you for sharing your thought. But I disagree. Why having a
>> >> >16-bit PK space will constrain the network to have only 64k LSPs? PK
>> >> >is needed only when the LSP is needed to use as a constraint for
>> >> >path diversity.
>> >>
>> >> I disagree -
>> >>
>> >> - How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
>> >>diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling
>> >>LSP1 at t1.
>> >> How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
>> >>requesting  diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >   Furthermore, I do not see why storing PKS in PCE for a longer
>> >> >time, even if the lifetime of LSP, will cause any scalability issue.
>> >> >PKS can be used locally by the PCE (stateless) per node basis
>> >>
>> >> Please stop calling a solution that mandate (path key, path) "states"
>> >>to be
>> >> stored for lifetime of the connection as a stateless solution. It is
>> >>stateful w.r.t.
>> >> Path info states. Let's define a new term for such stateful PCE and
>> >>use it.
>> >> Furthermore, as you solution required PCE to keep path states for
>> >>life time of  the connection, why not just use stateful PCE, instead?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >, i.e. combining PKS + source node address as a way for PCE to solve
>> >> >the issue you mentioned below, which is internal to the PCE.
>> >> >Do you agree?
>> >>
>> >> No... In your solution a PCE cannot serve more than 64 paths in the
>> >>network. If  you have a centralized PCE, you cannot have more than 64K
>> >>LSPs in the *entire  network*. This does not fly.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > If needed, we can capture this in the manageability section.
>> >> >
>> >> >Regards,
>> >> >Xian
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
>> >> >Sent: 2013=1B$BG/=1B(B11=1B$B7n=1B(B15=1B$BF|=1B(B 11:13
>> >> >To: Fatai Zhang; Zhangxian (Xian)
>> >> >Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: Fatai Zhang <zhangfatai@huawei.com>
>> >> >Date: Monday, November 11, 2013 9:09 PM
>> >> >To: zali <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)"
>> >> ><zhang.xian@huawei.com>
>> >> >Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
>> >> >Subject: RE: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>> >> >
>> >> >>Please don't argue scaliblity issue because you can see even a
>> >> >>GMPLS node can store lots of informaiton.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Fatai-
>> >> >
>> >> >I did not get what you are saying. What I was saying is:
>> >> >
>> >> >* Tunnel-id is 16 bit. I.e., client name space is 16 bit. There can
>> >> >be more than one LSP per tunnel.
>> >> >* Path key is 16 bits. I.e., server name space is 16 bits. Each LSP
>> >> >needs a Path Key.
>> >> >* There is 1:N relationship between PCC and PCE (server). PCE sever
>> >> >may even be centralized.
>> >> >* You are requiring (Path key, path info) "state" to be stored at
>> >> >the PCE server for the life time of the connections.
>> >> >* Path keys have hold-off timer of 30 minutes before they can be
>> >>reused.
>> >> >
>> >> >Hence, in your solution, PCE server would run out of Path Keys much
>> >> >before clients runs out of tunnel name space. In your solution, if
>> >> >you have a centralized PCE, you can only support 64K connection IN
>> >> >THE NETWORK! I am not sure why you want to ignore these scaling
>> >>restrictions.
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks
>> >> >
>> >> >Regards...Zafar
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> CCAMP mailing list
>> >> CCAMP@ietf.org
>> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
>> >
>>=20
>>=20
>
>


From zali@cisco.com  Mon Nov 18 11:58:46 2013
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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John-

In-line please.

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 2:40 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:08 AM
To: John E Drake; Cyril Margaria
Cc: ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

John-

I understand that but my point was that draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-p=
athkey-00 requires path info to be persistent across the life time of the c=
onnection.

[JD]  It doesn=92t say that.  However, given that a PCE maintains path stat=
e and not LSP state, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume that a path key=
 is valid for the duration of an LSP=92s existence, modulo changes in the s=
erver network topology that invalidate it.  Also, although it is extremely =
unlikely that the path state would be deleted, nothing breaks if it is dele=
ted.  The network is simply unable to compute a disjoint route, which can a=
lso happen for a variety of other reasons.

Also there is no way to differentiate which LSP will require path info to b=
e persistent vs. requests for which Path info can be purged.

[JD]  Given that a PCE maintains path state and not LSP state, why would it=
 care?

If LSP1 is signaled at t1 (using PK1). How would PCC or PCE will know that =
some other LSP (LSP2) will no longer be requesting diversity from LSP1 (usi=
ng PK1) at a future time t2? I.e., when PCE can purge PK1? If PK1 is purged=
 before t2, the solution did not address the requirement. On the other hand=
, PCE needs to purge Path states to scale.

Please also see my response to the other email w.r.t. Difficulties in purgi=
ng Path Keys in the way draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 is usi=
ng it.


Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar

From: "jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>" <jdrake@juniper.net<m=
ailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>
Date: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:24 PM
To: zali <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com<mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com>>
Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ietf.org>" <ccamp@ietf.org<mailto:ccamp@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553

Snipped, comment inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John


I do not recall that each LSP needs a path key, each path does, but not eac=
h LSP.
So the scalability is not related to amount of LSPs, but the amount of path=
 use, which scale quite differently than the number of LSPs.

I just responded to the same confusion in the other email =96 sorry for the=
 duplicate.

  *   How would PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for
diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signaling LSP1
at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will be
requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.
[JD]   A PCE would return a path key to the initiator of LSP 1.  When LSP2 =
is signaled, it would include that path key along w/ an indication of wheth=
er LSP2 is to be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.  Btw, =
as has been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one shou=
ld request LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe can be used.
Perhaps the WG should be developing the signaling to support this.
as stated before, you would support a maximum of 64k Paths, given the diver=
sity constraint you want to support.
In any case the scaling of the solution is to be considered, but is there o=
ther problem with that solution?
This solution is attractive as it provides a complete solution ( deploy a P=
CE colocated with the LSR, only resolving  PKS, the rest is already defined=
).

If we are using "path-stateful" PCE, why not use "stateful" PCE.

[JD]  Because it is an already defined term w/ a completely different meani=
ng?

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<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; ">
<div>
<div>John-&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In-line please.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards =85 Zafar</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; ">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
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 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrak=
e@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@ju=
niper.net">jdrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, November 18, 2013 2:4=
0 PM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali=
@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt;, Cyril Margaria &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cy=
ril.margaria@gmail.com">cyril.margaria@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@i=
etf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">cca=
mp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>RE: [CCAMP] The descriptio=
n of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Comments inline.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fam=
ily: Calibri, sans-serif; "> Zafar Ali (zali) [<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco=
.com">mailto:zali@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 18, 2013 11:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John E Drake; Cyril Margaria<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in R=
FC5553<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">John-&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I understand that but my point was that&nbs=
p;draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 requires path info to be per=
sistent across the life time of the connection.</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD]&nbsp; It doesn=92t say =
that.&nbsp; However, given that a PCE maintains path state and not LSP stat=
e, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume that a
 path key is valid for the duration of an LSP=92s existence, modulo changes=
 in the server network topology that invalidate it.&nbsp; Also, although it=
 is extremely unlikely that the path state would be deleted, nothing breaks=
 if it is deleted.&nbsp; The network is simply
 unable to compute a disjoint route, which can also happen for a variety of=
 other reasons.
<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Also there is no way to differentiate which=
 LSP will require&nbsp;path info to be persistent vs. requests for which Pa=
th info can be purged.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family:=
 Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i>=
</b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD]&nbsp; Given that a PCE =
maintains path state and not LSP state, why would it care?&nbsp;
</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans=
-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<div>If LSP1 is signaled&nbsp;at t1 (using PK1). How would PCC or PCE will =
know that some other LSP (LSP2) will no longer be&nbsp;requesting diversity=
 from LSP1 (using PK1) at a future time t2? I.e., when PCE can purge PK1? I=
f PK1 is purged before t2, the solution did
 not address the requirement. On the other hand,&nbsp;PCE needs to purge Pa=
th states to scale.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please also see my response to the other email w.r.t. Difficulties in =
purging Path Keys in the way draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 i=
s using it.&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 14px; "><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION" style=3D"font-size: 14px; ">
<blockquote id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE" style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
 #b5c4df 5 solid; PADDING:0 0 0 5; MARGIN:0 0 0 5;">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Regards =85 Zafar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Cali=
bri, sans-serif; color: black; ">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif=
; color: black; ">&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@junipe=
r.net</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jdrake@juniper.net">jdrake@juniper.ne=
t</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, November 18, 2013 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>zali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zali@cisco.com">zali@cisco.com</a>&gt=
;, Cyril Margaria &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cyril.margaria@gmail.com">cyril.mar=
garia@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&quot;=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ccamp@ietf.org">ccamp@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in R=
FC5553<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTR=
IBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Snipped, comment inline</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Yours Irrespectively,</span><span =
style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">John</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri=
, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I do not recall that each LSP needs a path =
key, each path does, but not each LSP.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">So the scalability is not related to amount=
 of LSPs, but the amount of path use, which scale quite differently than th=
e number of LSPs.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">I just responded to the same confusion in t=
he other email =96 sorry for the duplicate.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-ma=
rgin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">How w=
ould PCC or PCE know ahead of time which LSP will be used for</span><o:p></=
o:p></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">diversity by another LSP in a future time? E.g., if you are signal=
ing LSP1</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">at t1. How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) w=
ill be</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;margin-left:.5in">
<span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">requesting diversity from LSP1 at a future time t2.</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD] &nbsp;&nbsp;A PCE would return a path=
 key to the initiator of LSP 1.&nbsp; When LSP2 is signaled,
 it would include that path key along w/ an indication of whether LSP2 is t=
o be disjointly or congruently routed wrt that path key.&nbsp; Btw, as has =
been noted, if one is truly interested in disjoint routing, one should requ=
est LSP1 and LSP2 together so that Suurballe
 can be used. </span></i></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-s=
erif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps the WG should be developing the si=
gnaling to support this.</span></i></b><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #B5C4DF 4.5pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin=
-bottom:5.0pt" id=3D"MAC_OUTLOOK_ATTRIBUTION_BLOCKQUOTE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">as stated before, you would support a maxim=
um of 64k Paths, given the diversity constraint you want to support.
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">In any case the scaling of the solution is =
to be considered, but is there other problem with that solution?</span><spa=
n style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">This solution is attractive as it provides =
a complete solution ( deploy a PCE colocated with the LSR, only resolving&n=
bsp; PKS, the rest is already defined).
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color:black"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calib=
ri, sans-serif; color: black; ">If we are using&nbsp;&quot;path-stateful&qu=
ot; PCE, why not use &quot;stateful&quot; PCE.</span><span style=3D"color:b=
lack"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&nbsp;</span></i></b><span s=
tyle=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">[JD]&nbsp; Because it is an =
already defined term w/ a completely different meaning?</span></i></b><span=
 style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CEAFDA2185B26zaliciscocom_--

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Comments inline.

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:51 AM
> To: John E Drake; Zhangxian (Xian)
> Cc: ccamp@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
>=20
> Hi John-
>=20
> So you agree that a PCE cannot support more than 64K Paths.

[JD]  There are 64k path keys associated with a given PCE address.  There i=
s no requirement that a PCE
have only one address.  =20

> In a centralized
> PCE environment this would mean 64K Path states for the entire network. I=
f I
> would assume M =3D1 (I asked a question for M; you can pick some other M)=
 this
> would mean that *network* cannot served more than 64K LSPs.

[JD]  in an optical network a more realistic number is in the range 64-128,=
 resulting in 4,096,000 - 8,192,000
LSPs, again per PCE address.

> Recall this
> scaling restriction is not with RFC5553 (as RFC5553 RECOMMENDS path info
> to be purged after 10 mins).=20

 [JD]  That's incorrect.  RFC 5553 does not say a word about this.  RFC 552=
0 recommends that a path key be *kept*
 for at least ten minutes and indicates that this value is configurable.  I=
t also indicates that the purging of path state
is simply a house keeping procedure.

>This restriction comes from draft-zhang-ccamp-
> route-exclusion-pathkey-00, which requires path info to be saved for the =
life of
> an LSP (using it).

[JD]  That's incorrect.  It *does not* say this.  Further, why would divers=
ely routed LSPs not be established concurrently?  If they are not,
it defeats the purpose of having diversely routed LSPs. =20

>=20
> Given that Path to "LSPs using the Path" is not stored at (stateless) PCE=
, how
> would PCE ever be able to purge the Path state? We keep saying for life t=
ime of
> the connection but how would PCE know (all) client(s) has
> (have) deleted the LSP in question?

[JD]   It continues to purge path state as per RFC 5520.  Nothing breaks if=
 the path state is purged, and path state can also be
invalidated due to depletion of server network resources or changes in serv=
er network topology.
  =20

[> I.e., how would (and when) PCE be able to
> purge the Path states? Again RFC5553 RECOMMENDS a simple (10 min) timer
> based mechanism, which does not work for draft-zhang-ccamp-route-
> exclusion-pathkey-00.

[JD]  See my previous comments.



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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, Cyril Margaria <cyril.margaria@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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If LSP1 is signaled at t1 (using PK1). How would PCC or PCE will know that =
some other LSP (LSP2) will no longer be requesting diversity from LSP1 (usi=
ng PK1) at a future time t2? I.e., when PCE can purge PK1? If PK1 is purged=
 before t2, the solution did not address the requirement.

[JD]  Three points.  Operationally, diversely routed LSPs are established c=
oncurrently so operationally this is a non-issue.  Since path state can be =
used for multiple LSPs there is no reason to aggressively purge it.  Your s=
olution requires that every node at the edge of an abstract node has comple=
te knowledge of the RSVP-TE explicit route and identifier of every LSP tran=
siting that abstract node and to this point you have not indicated how this=
 information would be distributed or maintained.

On the other hand, PCE needs to purge Path states to scale.

[JD]  Sever blades currently have on the order of 768GB of system memory an=
d a path is on the order of 1K.


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libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">If LSP1 is signaled&nbsp;at t1 (using PK1). =
How would PCC or PCE will know that some other LSP (LSP2) will no longer be=
&nbsp;requesting diversity from LSP1 (using PK1) at a future time
 t2? I.e., when PCE can purge PK1? If PK1 is purged before t2, the solution=
 did not address the requirement.</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:4.75pt"><b><i><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; Three points.&nbsp; Operationally, diversely routed LS=
Ps are established concurrently so operationally this is a non-issue.&nbsp;
 Since path state can be used for multiple LSPs there is no reason to aggre=
ssively purge it.&nbsp; Your solution requires that every node at the edge =
of an abstract node has complete knowledge of the RSVP-TE explicit route an=
d identifier of every LSP transiting
 that abstract node and to this point you have not indicated how this infor=
mation would be distributed or maintained.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">On the other hand,&nbsp;PCE needs to purge P=
ath states to scale.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[JD]&nbsp; Sever bl=
ades currently have on the order of 768GB of system memory and a path is on=
 the order of 1K.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span></i></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
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From adrian@olddog.co.uk  Mon Nov 18 14:30:30 2013
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <draft-ietf-ccamp-oam-configuration-fwk.all@tools.ietf.org>
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Thank you for this document. I think it is well written and clear. It is
very nearly ready to be advanced for publication, but we need to do a 
little work on the IANA section to make it completely clear for IANA. I
suggest the following, but please review it carefully because I have 
introduced new material that you did not have in your original text.

I also have some smaller nits and editorial comments, and a few places
where it would be really helpful to clarify the text.

I've moved the I-D status to show I expect to see a revision, but please
discuss these points with me if you like.

Thanks for the work.

Adrian

===

OLD
5.  IANA Considerations

   Two bits ("OAM Alarms Enabled" (O) and "OAM Flows Enabled" (M)) needs
   to be allocated in the ADMIN_STATUS Object.

   Two bits ("OAM MEP entities desired" and "OAM MIP entities desired")
   needs to be allocated in the LSP Attributes Flags Registry.

   This document specifies one new TLV to be carried in the
   LSP_ATTRIBUTES and LSP_REQUIRED_ATTRIBUTES objects in Path and Resv
   messages: OAM Configuration TLV.

   One new Error Code: "OAM Problem" and a set of new values: "MEP
   establishment not supported", "MIP establishment not supported",
   "Unsupported OAM Type", "Configuration Error", "OAM Type Mismatch"
   and "Unsupported OAM Function" needs to be assigned.

   IANA is requested to open a new registry: "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration
   Registry" that maintains the "OAM Type" code points, an associated
   sub-TLV space, and the allocations of "OAM Function Flags" within the
   OAM Configuration TLV.


   RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry

     OAM Type           Description
   ------------      ------------------
      0-255              Reserved


   Sub-TLV Type                  Description
   ------------      ------------------------------------
       0                          Reserved
       1                  OAM Function Flags Sub-TLV
      2-31               Reserved for generic Sub-TLVs
      32-          Reserved for technology specific Sub-TLVs


   OAM Function Flag bit#      Description
   ----------------------  -------------------------------
     0                     Continuity Check (CC)
     1                     Connectivity Verification (CV)
     2                     Fault Management Signal (FMS)
     3                     Performance Monitoring/Loss (PM/Loss)
     4                     Performance Monitoring/Delay (PM/Delay)
     5                     Performance Monitoring/Throughput Measurement
                           (PM/Throughput)
     6-                    Reserved
NEW
5.  IANA Considerations

5.1. ADMIN_STATUS Object Bit Flags

   IANA maintains a registry called "Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
   Switching (GMPLS) Signaling Parameters" with a sub-registry called
   "Administrative Status Information Flags".

   IANA is requested to allocate two new flags as follows:

   Bit Number |  Hex Value | Name                     | Reference
   -----------+------------+--------------------------+---------------- 
     TBA      |   TBA      | OAM Alarms Enabled (O)   | [This.ID]
     TBA      |   TBA      | OAM Flows Enabled" (M)   | [This.ID]
   
5.2. LSP Attributes Flags

   IANA maintains a registry called "Resource Reservation Protocol-
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Parameters" with a subregistry called
   "Attribute Flags".

   IANA is requested to allocate two new flags as follows:

   Bit | Name                     | Attribute  | Attribute  | RRO | Ref
   No  |                          | Flags Path | Flags Resv |     |
   ----+--------------------------+------------+------------+-----+-----
   TBA | OAM MEP entities desired |   Yes      |    No      | Yes |
   TBA | OAM MIP entities desired |   Yes      |    No      | Yes |

5.3. New LSP Attributes

   IANA maintains a registry called "Resource Reservation Protocol-
   Traffic Engineering (RSVP-TE) Parameters" with a subregistry called
   "Attributes TLV Space"
   
   IANA is requested to allocate one new TLV type as follows:

   Type | Name                  | Allowed on     | Allowed on    | Ref
        |                       | LSP_ATTRIBUTES | LSP_REQUIRED_ |
        |                       |                | ATTRIBUTES    |
   -----+-----------------------+----------------+---------------+------
    TBA | OAM Configuration TLV |     Yes        |     Yes       |  

5.4. RSVP Error Code

   IANA maintains a registry called "Resource Reservation Protocol
   (RSVP) Parameters" with a subregistry called "Error Codes and
   Globally-Defined Error Value Sub-Codes".

   IANA is requested to allocate one new Error Code as follows:

   Error Code | Meaning     | Reference                  
   -----------+-------------+-------------
       TBA    | OAM Problem |  [This.ID]

   The value is to be selected from the range 0-239.

   The following Error Value sub-codes are defined for this new Error
   Code as follows:

   Value | Description                     | Reference
   ------+---------------------------------+--------------
     1   | MEP establishment not supported | [This.ID]
     2   | MIP establishment not supported | [This.ID] 
     3   | Unsupported OAM Type            | [This.ID] 
     4   | Configuration Error             | [This.ID] 
     5   | OAM Type Mismatch               | [This.ID] 
     6   | Unsupported OAM Function        | [This.ID] 

5.5. RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry

   IANA is requested to create a new registry called "RSVP-TE OAM
   Configuration Registry". 

   IANA is requested to create sub-registries as defined in the
   following subsections:
   
5.5.1. OAM Types Sub-Registry

   IANA is requested to create the "OAM Types" sub-registry of the
   "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry" as follows:

    Range | Registration Procedures
   -------+-------------------------
    0-255 | IETF Review

    There are no initial values in this registry.  IANA should show the
    registry as follows:


    OAM Type Number | OAM Type Description | Reference
    ----------------+----------------------+--------------
     0-255          | Not allocated        |


5.5.2. OAM Sub-TLVs Sub-Registry

   IANA is requested to create the "OAM Sub-TLVs" sub-registry of the
   "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry" as follows:

    Range       | Purpose                      | Registration Procedures
   -------------+------------------------------|------------------------
    0-31        | Generic Sub-TLVs             | IETF Review
    32-65534    | Technology-specific Sub-TLVs | IETF Review
    65535-65536 | Experimental Sub-TLVs        | Experimental

   IANA is requested to populate the registry as follows:

   Sub-TLV Type | Description                | Reference
   -------------+----------------------------+-------
       0        | Reserved                   | [This.ID]
       1        | OAM Function Flags Sub-TLV | [This.ID]
      2-31      | Not allocated              |
      32-65534  | Not allocated              |

5.5.3. OAM Function Flags Sub-Registry

   IANA is requested to create the "OAM Function Flags Sub-Registry" 
   sub-registry of the "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry".

   New values in the registry are allocated by "IETF Review". There is
   no top value to the range. Bits are counted from bit 0 as the first
   bit transmitted.

   IANA is requested to populate the registry as follows.

   OAM Function Flag | Description 
   bit number        |    
   ------------------+---------------------------------------------
     0               | Continuity Check (CC)
     1               | Connectivity Verification (CV)
     2               | Fault Management Signal (FMS)
     3               | Performance Monitoring/Loss (PM/Loss)
     4               | Performance Monitoring/Delay (PM/Delay)
     5               | Performance Monitoring/Throughput Measurement
                     |    (PM/Throughput)
     6-...           | Not allocated
END

---

Please expand OAM and LSP in the Abstract.

---

In Section 3 you have some terms defined (MP, ME, MIP, MEP). Some of 
these terms are consistent with the use of terms in draft-ietf-mpls-tp-
rosetta-stone and some are not. Is there a specific reason why you have
diverged from this other draft? If not, you should align this work.

---

Section 3.1

   When using the GMPLS control
   plane, establishment and enabling of OAM functions MUST be bound to
   RSVP-TE message exchanges.

I think you mean...

   When using the GMPLS control plane for both LSP establishment and to
   enable OAM functions on the LSPs, the control of both processes is
   bound to RSVP-TE message exchanges.

---

Section 4.1

   If the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit is set it is indicating that
   the establishment of OAM MEP entities are required at the endpoints
   of the signaled LSP.  If the establishment of MEPs is not supported
   an error MUST be generated: "OAM Problem/MEP establishment not
   supported".

I can see how this works for an implementation of this document that 
chooses not to (or cannot) support OAM on a given LSP. I do not
understand how it works when a node that does not support this document
receives the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit set - it cannot return the
desired response because it doesn't support this document.

To handle this, I think you need to split the two cases.
1. Does not support the establishment of MEPs on this specific LSP
2. Does not support any establishment of MEPs.

In the second case you need to determine how this will be made to work.
Since 5420 specifies that the unknown bit in an LSP_ATTRIBUTE object
will be silently ignored, you need to use the absence of a positive
acknowledgement to indicate to the ingress that the function is not
supported.

See also Section 4.4.

---

Section 4.1

   This bit MUST only be set if the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit is
   set.

This is a rather unusual construction. I think you may mean...

   If the "OAM MEP entities desired" bit is not set then this bit MUST
   NOT be set.

---

Section 4.1

   If the establishment of a MIP is not supported
   an error MUST be generated: "OAM Problem/MIP establishment not
   supported".

Exactly the same problem as described for "OAM MEP entities desired"
above except for the additional behavior if used on 
LSP_REQUIRED_ATTRIBUTES. (See also 4.4)

---

Section 4.2

   Type: indicates a new type: the OAM Configuration TLV (3) (IANA to
   assign).

If this is a specific request that the value 3 is assigned, you should
reflect this in Section 5.

---

Section 4.2

   When carried in the LSP_ATTRIBUTES
   Object, intermediate nodes not supporting the OAM Type pass the
   object forward unchanged as specified in [RFC5420], and only Label
   Edge Nodes MUST generate an error if the OAM Type is not supported at
   the LSP end-point.

There are a couple of issues here. You have defined a "Label Edge Node".
You also have another "only MUST" construction. How about...

   When carried in the LSP_ATTRIBUTES
   Object, intermediate nodes not supporting the OAM Type pass the
   object forward unchanged as specified in [RFC5420]. Ingress and
   egress nodes that support the OAM Configuration TLV but that do not 
   support a specific OAM Type MUST respond with an error indicating
   "OAM Problem/Unsupported OAM Type".

---

Section 4.2

Can multiple copies of the OAM configuration TLV be present in one
LSP_ATTRIBUTES object?

---

I think section 4.2 needs to mention the generic sub-TLVs. Reading the
text as it stands, it appears that all sub-TLVs are for technology-
specific OAM. So you need:
- To explain generic sub-TLVs so that future sub-TLVs can be defined
- To include a forward pointer to 4.2.1

---

Section 4.2.1

   As the first sub-TLV the "OAM Function Flags Sub-TLV" MUST always be
   included in the "OAM Configuration TLV".

I think you mean:

   The "OAM Configuration TLV" MUST always include a single instance of 
   the "OAM Function Flags Sub-TLV" and it MUST always be the first sub-
   TLV.

---

Section 4.2.1

You need to reiterate that the Length field counts octets (because for a
variable length bitmap someone might easily think it is a count of bits)
and then you need to explain how to set the length field and how to
handle padding.

---

Section 4.2.2

   One technology specific sub-TLV MAY be defined for each "OAM Type".
   This sub-TLV MUST contain any further OAM configuration information
   for that specific "OAM Type".  The technology specific sub-TLV, when
   used, MUST be carried within the OAM Configuration TLV.  IANA is
   requested to maintain the OAM technology specific sub-TLV space in
   the new "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration Registry".

The use of 2119 language here is odd. It is really meant for 
implementation instructions, not to constrain future specifications.
How about saying:

   If technology-specific configuration information is needed for a
   specific "OAM Type", then this information is carried in a
   technology-specific sub-TLV. Such sub-TLVs are OPTIONAL and an
   OAM Configuration TLV MUST NOT contain more than one technology-
   specific sub-TLV. IANA is requested to maintain the OAM technology
   specific sub-TLV space in the new "RSVP-TE OAM Configuration 
   Registry".

---

Section 4.3

s/are allocated by this draft/are allocated by this document/

---

Section 4.3

   When
   the "OAM Flows Enabled" bit is set, OAM packets are sent; if it is
   cleared, no OAM packets are emitted.


When the bit is sent, is that MAY, SHOULD, or MUST send OAM packets?
If clear, I think that is MUST NOT be sent.

Why do you say "OAM packets"? Doesn't this I-D apply to all OAM
mechanisms?

---

Section 4.3

   When the "OAM Alarms Enabled"
   bit is set OAM triggered alarms are enabled and associated consequent
   actions are executed including the notification to the management
   system.  When this bit is cleared, alarms are suppressed and no
   action is executed and the management system is not notified.

I understand "When this bit is cleared, alarms are suppressed" and "the
management system is not notified", but I don't understand "no action is
executed." If there is no action on OAM detecting some issue, then why
run OAM? There is clearly something you had in mind when you created two
separate admin statuses, but the purpose is not clear in your document.


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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:52:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Hi John-=20

Please see in-line.

Thanks

Regards =8A Zafar


<snip>=20
>>=20
>> Hi John-
>>=20
>> So you agree that a PCE cannot support more than 64K Paths.
>
>[JD]  There are 64k path keys associated with a given PCE address.  There
>is no requirement that a PCE
>have only one address.

This is incorrect. One address per PCE is a requirement as per rfc5088.
Quoting from http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5088#page-7

"The PCE-ADDRESS sub-TLV is mandatory; it MUST be present within the
   PCED TLV.  It MAY appear twice, when the PCE has both an IPv4 and
   IPv6 address.  It MUST NOT appear more than once for the same address
   type.  If it appears more than once for the same address type, only
   the first occurrence is processed and any others MUST be ignored."



>
>> In a centralized
>> PCE environment this would mean 64K Path states for the entire network.
>>If I
>> would assume M =3D1 (I asked a question for M; you can pick some other M=
)
>>this
>> would mean that *network* cannot served more than 64K LSPs.
>
>[JD]  in an optical network a more realistic number is in the range
>64-128, resulting in 4,096,000 - 8,192,000
>LSPs, again per PCE address.

I am not sure where you brought 64-128 bit space. In rfc5520, PCE Path Key
is defined as a 16 bit number.

>
>> Recall this
>> scaling restriction is not with RFC5553 (as RFC5553 RECOMMENDS path info
>> to be purged after 10 mins).
>
> [JD]  That's incorrect.  RFC 5553 does not say a word about this.  RFC
>5520 recommends that a path key be *kept*
> for at least ten minutes and indicates that this value is configurable.
>It also indicates that the purging of path state
>is simply a house keeping procedure.

I was quoting following text from rfc5520:

"It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the PKS for a period of 10 minutes."

>
>>This restriction comes from draft-zhang-ccamp-
>> route-exclusion-pathkey-00, which requires path info to be saved for
>>the life of
>> an LSP (using it).
>
>[JD]  That's incorrect.  It *does not* say this.  Further, why would
>diversely routed LSPs not be established concurrently?  If they are not,
>it defeats the purpose of having diversely routed LSPs.

In that case, why cannot we use RFC5440 (SVEC object), instead? Why do you
need draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00?

>
>>=20
>> Given that Path to "LSPs using the Path" is not stored at (stateless)
>>PCE, how
>> would PCE ever be able to purge the Path state? We keep saying for life
>>time of
>> the connection but how would PCE know (all) client(s) has
>> (have) deleted the LSP in question?
>
>[JD]   It continues to purge path state as per RFC 5520.  Nothing breaks
>if the path state is purged, and path state can also be
>invalidated due to depletion of server network resources or changes in
>server network topology.
> =20

So you agree that the solution is broken. It only works sometimes.

Speaking of handling changes in server topology. This is another aspect
that draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 does NOT talks about at
all. In this respect, please note that:

1. A PCC that does not have server topology (UNI, which is target case for
this draft). So it cannot verify Paths or check if diversity is still met.
2. A passive PCE can verify Paths and can detect if diversity is still met
but cannot take action.

So once draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 sets up the service,
it cannot handle topology changes.

>=20
>
>[> I.e., how would (and when) PCE be able to
>> purge the Path states? Again RFC5553 RECOMMENDS a simple (10 min) timer
>> based mechanism, which does not work for draft-zhang-ccamp-route-
>> exclusion-pathkey-00.
>
>[JD]  See my previous comments.
>
>


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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>, "Zhangxian (Xian)" <zhang.xian@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 21:38:11 +0000
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References: <786d18678a8b4b7b8da93dcdb30e5fd3@BLUPR05MB562.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <CEB11146.86503%zali@cisco.com>
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Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] The description of Path Key retaining time in RFC5553
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Comments inline

Yours Irrespectively,

John

> <snip>
> >>
> >> Hi John-
> >>
> >> So you agree that a PCE cannot support more than 64K Paths.
> >
> >[JD]  There are 64k path keys associated with a given PCE address.
> >There is no requirement that a PCE have only one address.
>=20
> This is incorrect. One address per PCE is a requirement as per rfc5088.
> Quoting from http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5088#page-7
>=20
> "The PCE-ADDRESS sub-TLV is mandatory; it MUST be present within the
>    PCED TLV.  It MAY appear twice, when the PCE has both an IPv4 and
>    IPv6 address.  It MUST NOT appear more than once for the same address
>    type.  If it appears more than once for the same address type, only
>    the first occurrence is processed and any others MUST be ignored."


[JD]  Where in RFC 5508 does it say that only one PCED TLV per router can b=
e advertised?  Further, RFC 5508 is but one of many methods of establishing=
 PCEP sessions.


>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> >> In a centralized
> >> PCE environment this would mean 64K Path states for the entire network=
.
> >>If I
> >> would assume M =3D1 (I asked a question for M; you can pick some other
> >>M) this  would mean that *network* cannot served more than 64K LSPs.
> >
> >[JD]  in an optical network a more realistic number is in the range
> >64-128, resulting in 4,096,000 - 8,192,000 LSPs, again per PCE address.
>=20
> I am not sure where you brought 64-128 bit space. In rfc5520, PCE Path Ke=
y is
> defined as a 16 bit number.


[JD]   I think you missed the point.  In an optical network there are typic=
ally 64 or 128 channels per DWDM line system.  This means that there could =
be 64 or 128 LSPs routed on the same path through the server and they would=
 all use the same path key.=20


>=20
> >
> >> Recall this
> >> scaling restriction is not with RFC5553 (as RFC5553 RECOMMENDS path
> >> info to be purged after 10 mins).
> >
> > [JD]  That's incorrect.  RFC 5553 does not say a word about this.  RFC
> >5520 recommends that a path key be *kept*  for at least ten minutes and
> >indicates that this value is configurable.
> >It also indicates that the purging of path state is simply a house
> >keeping procedure.
>=20
> I was quoting following text from rfc5520:
>=20
> "It is RECOMMENDED for a PCE to store the PKS for a period of 10 minutes.=
"


[JD]  Actually, you weren't.  According to you, you were quoting from RFC 5=
553 and as I pointed out, you were incorrect.

As I indicated above, I think the more relevant text from RFC 5520, which c=
learly indicates that aggressive cache management isn't necessary, is the f=
ollowing:

"The operation of the PKS extensions require that path-keys are retained by=
 the issuing PCE to be available for retrieval by an LSR (acting as a PCC) =
at a later date.  But it is possible that the
retrieval request will never be made, so good housekeeping requires that a =
timer is run to discard unwanted path-keys."


>=20
> >
> >>This restriction comes from draft-zhang-ccamp-
> >>route-exclusion-pathkey-00, which requires path info to be saved for
> >>the life of  an LSP (using it).
> >
> >[JD]  That's incorrect.  It *does not* say this.  Further, why would
> >diversely routed LSPs not be established concurrently?  If they are
> >not, it defeats the purpose of having diversely routed LSPs.
>=20
> In that case, why cannot we use RFC5440 (SVEC object), instead? Why do yo=
u
> need draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00?


[JD]  Um, I think I was the one that suggested this, when critiquing your d=
rafts.  That would be fine too, particularly if it was augmented to compute=
 disjoint paths concurrently.  It also has the nice property of rendering a=
ll of your drafts DOA.  Do we have consensus on this?
=20

>=20
> >
> >>
> >> Given that Path to "LSPs using the Path" is not stored at (stateless)
> >>PCE, how  would PCE ever be able to purge the Path state? We keep
> >>saying for life time of  the connection but how would PCE know (all)
> >>client(s) has
> >> (have) deleted the LSP in question?
> >
> >[JD]   It continues to purge path state as per RFC 5520.  Nothing breaks
> >if the path state is purged, and path state can also be invalidated due
> >to depletion of server network resources or changes in server network
> >topology.
> >
>=20
> So you agree that the solution is broken. It only works sometimes.


[JD]  Hardly, rather I have been making two points.  Diversely routed paths=
 are typically established concurrently so they should not be
affected by aggressive cache management and there is nothing, other than so=
me vague assertions by you, that indicates that aggressive
cache management  is required to scale PCE performance.=20


>=20
> Speaking of handling changes in server topology. This is another aspect t=
hat
> draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 does NOT talks about at all.=
 In
> this respect, please note that:
>=20
> 1. A PCC that does not have server topology (UNI, which is target case fo=
r this
> draft). So it cannot verify Paths or check if diversity is still met.
> 2. A passive PCE can verify Paths and can detect if diversity is still me=
t but
> cannot take action.
>=20
> So once draft-zhang-ccamp-route-exclusion-pathkey-00 sets up the service,=
 it
> cannot handle topology changes.


[JD]   A better way to say this is that neither your draft nor this draft s=
olves this problem.  In both drafts, the explicit routes and LSP IDs are av=
ailable inside the server network but a mechanism is required to distribute=
 this information to the correct PE nodes and neither draft proposes any su=
ch mechanism.  I have pointed out this problem in your drafts out to you on=
 numerous occasions but to no effect.=20


From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org  Tue Nov 19 16:25:07 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] RFC 7062 on Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of G.709 Optical Transport Networks
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7062

        Title:      Framework for GMPLS and PCE 
                    Control of G.709 Optical Transport Networks 
        Author:     F. Zhang, Ed.,
                    D. Li, H. Li,
                    S. Belotti, D. Ceccarelli
        Status:     Informational
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       November 2013
        Mailbox:    zhangfatai@huawei.com, 
                    huawei.danli@huawei.com, 
                    lihan@chinamobile.com,
                    sergio.belotti@alcatel-lucent.it, 
                    daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
        Pages:      26
        Characters: 56109
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-g709-framework-15.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7062.txt

This document provides a framework to allow the development of
protocol extensions to support Generalized Multi-Protocol Label
Switching (GMPLS) and Path Computation Element (PCE) control of
Optical Transport Networks (OTNs) as specified in ITU-T Recommendation
G.709 as published in 2012.

This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community.
It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 16:15:11 -0800 (PST)
Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org, ccamp@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
Subject: [CCAMP] RFC 7074 on Revised Definition of the GMPLS Switching Capability and Type Fields
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 7074

        Title:      Revised Definition of the GMPLS 
                    Switching Capability and Type Fields 
        Author:     L. Berger, J. Meuric
        Status:     Standards Track
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       November 2013
        Mailbox:    lberger@labn.net, 
                    julien.meuric@orange.com
        Pages:      9
        Characters: 19376
        Updates:    RFC 3471, RFC 4202, RFC 4203, RFC 5307

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ccamp-swcaps-update-03.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7074.txt

GMPLS provides control for multiple switching technologies and
for hierarchical switching within a technology.  GMPLS routing and
signaling use common values to indicate the type of switching technology.
These values are carried in routing protocols via the Switching Capability
field, and in signaling protocols via the Switching Type field.  While the
values used in these fields are the primary indicators of the
technology and hierarchy level being controlled, the values are
not consistently defined and used across the different
technologies supported by GMPLS.  This document is intended to
resolve the inconsistent definition and use of the Switching
Capability and Type fields by narrowly scoping the meaning and use
of the fields.  This document updates all documents that use the
GMPLS Switching Capability and Types fields, in particular RFCs
3471, 4202, 4203, and 5307.

This document is a product of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and
status of this protocol.  Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

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From jari.arkko@piuha.net  Wed Nov 20 10:48:21 2013
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From: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
In-Reply-To: <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE48163DD1@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 15:48:06 -0300
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References: <52581639.4050602@nostrum.com> <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE48163DD1@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se>
To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
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Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org, ccamp@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [Gen-art] Gen-Art LC review draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
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Many thanks for your review, Robert! Daniele, thank you for the =
modifications. However, I do not see the IANA section modification yet =
in -11. But maybe I missed it. Has that been incorporated to the latest =
version? (I thought your text suggestion looked fine.)

Jari

On Oct 15, 2013, at 5:21 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli =
<daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
> =20
> Many thanks for your review. Please find comments/replies in line.
> =20
> BR
> Daniele (& co-authors)
> =20
> From: Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: venerd=EC 11 ottobre 2013 17:16
> To: General Area Review Team; ccamp@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Gen-Art LC review draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
> =20
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on=20=

> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at=20
>=20
> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.=20
>=20
> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments=20=

> you may receive.=20
>=20
> Document: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
> Reviewer: Robert Sparks
> Review Date: 11-Oct-2013
> IETF LC End Date: 16-Oct-2013
> IESG Telechat date: Not yet scheduled for a telechat
>=20
> Summary: This draft is basically ready for publication, but has nits =
that should be fixed before publication.
>=20
> This document is dense (as in it puts a lot of information in a small =
number of characters), but it reads clearly.
> I did not carefully review the contents of the example fields for =
editorial mistakes - please be sure someone in the group has done that.
>=20
> The largest issue I see is on the border of being more than a nit. I'm =
calling it a nit because it should be very easy to fix:
> The sentence "Same type of modification needs to applied to the =
IANA-GMPLS-TC-MIB at =
https://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mib" is not =
sufficient instruction to IANA to cause that registry to be modified. =
Please provide more precise
> instructions as to how this mib should change.
>=20
> [[Authors]] How about the following?
>=20
> OLD
>=20
> Same type of modification needs to applied to the IANA-GMPLS-TC-MIB at =
https://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mib
>=20
> NEW
>=20
> Same type of modification needs to applied to the IANA-GMPLS-TC-MIB at =
https://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mib, where =
the value
>=20
> OTN-TDM (110),     -- Time-Division-Multiplex OTN-TDM capable
>=20
> Will be added to the IANAGmplsSwitchingTypeTC ::=3D TEXTUAL-CONVENTION =
syntax list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I note also that the value 40 from RFC6060 didn't make it into the =
mib.
>=20
> The rest of these are more nitty nits:
>=20
> ---
> In section 4, I think you've repeated a MUST, and risk introducing =
confusion.
> It's awkward to point to this with paragraph numbers because of the =
interspersed tables, so I'll quote the relevant block:
>=20
>    When supporting the extensions defined in this document, the
>    Switching Capability and Encoding values MUST be used as follows:
> =20
>    - Switching Capability =3D OTN-TDM
>    - Encoding Type =3D G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) as defined in =
[RFC4328]
> =20
>    Both for fixed and flexible ODUs the same switching type and =
encoding
>    values MUST be used.
> If I read that correctly , those are the same MUST and you're saying =
it's a MUST no matter whether you're talking about fixed or flexible =
ODUs.
> If that's correct I suggest replacing this with:
>=20
>    When supporting the extensions defined in this document, for both
>    fixed and flexible ODUs, the Switching Capability and Encoding =
values=20
>    MUST be used as follows:
> =20
>    - Switching Capability =3D OTN-TDM
>    - Encoding Type =3D G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) as defined in =
[RFC4328]
> (or leave out the fixed and flexible clarification altogether - I =
would not have been confused without it).=20
> [[Authors]] Comment correct. New text adopted.
>=20
>=20
> ---
>=20
> In section 8.2, where you say "IANA will create and maintain a new =
registry", I suggest you say "new sub-registry".
> [[Authors]] OK
>=20
>=20
> RjS
> _______________________________________________
> Gen-art mailing list
> Gen-art@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Fri Nov 22 03:21:29 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-12.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Common Control and Measurement Plane Work=
ing Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Traffic Engineering Extensions to OSPF for Generalized M=
PLS (GMPLS) Control of Evolving G.709 OTN Networks
	Author(s)       : Daniele Ceccarelli
                          Fatai Zhang
                          Sergio Belotti
                          Rajan Rao
                          John E Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-12.txt
	Pages           : 35
	Date            : 2013-11-22

Abstract:
   This document describes Open Shortest Path First - Traffic
   Engineering (OSPF-TE) routing protocol extensions to support
   Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) control of Optical Transport Networks (OTN)
   specified in ITU-T Recommendation G.709 as published in 2012.  It
   extends mechanisms defined in RFC4203.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com  Fri Nov 22 03:22:39 2013
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "jari.arkko@piuha.net" <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] [Gen-art] Gen-Art LC review draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [Gen-art] Gen-Art LC review draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
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Hi Jari,

Yes, you're right. When doing the modifications is missed the IANA section =
ones.

I just uploaded the v12 to fix it.

Many thanks
Daniele




Many thanks for your review, Robert! Daniele, thank you for the modificatio=
ns. However, I do not see the IANA section modification yet in -11. But may=
be I missed it. Has that been incorporated to the latest version? (I though=
t your text suggestion looked fine.)

Jari

On Oct 15, 2013, at 5:21 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli at eric=
sson.com> wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>=A0=20
> Many thanks for your review. Please find comments/replies in line.
>=A0=20
> BR
> Daniele (& co-authors)
>=A0=20
> From: Robert Sparks [mailto:rjsparks at nostrum.com]=20
> Sent: venerd=EC 11 ottobre 2013 17:16
> To: General Area Review Team; ccamp at ietf.org; draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-o=
spf-g709v3 at tools.ietf.org
> Subject: Gen-Art LC review draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
>=A0=20
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on=20
> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at=20
>=20
> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.=20
>=20
> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments=20
> you may receive.=20
>=20
> Document: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ospf-g709v3-09
> Reviewer: Robert Sparks
> Review Date: 11-Oct-2013
> IETF LC End Date: 16-Oct-2013
> IESG Telechat date: Not yet scheduled for a telechat
>=20
> Summary: This draft is basically ready for publication, but has nits that=
 should be fixed before publication.
>=20
> This document is dense (as in it puts a lot of information in a small num=
ber of characters), but it reads clearly.
> I did not carefully review the contents of the example fields for editori=
al mistakes - please be sure someone in the group has done that.
>=20
> The largest issue I see is on the border of being more than a nit. I'm ca=
lling it a nit because it should be very easy to fix:
> The sentence "Same type of modification needs to applied to the IANA-GMPL=
S-TC-MIB at https://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mi=
b"; is not sufficient instruction to IANA to cause that registry to be modi=
fied. Please provide more precise
> instructions as to how this mib should change.
>=20
> [[Authors]] How about the following?
>=20
> OLD
>=20
> Same type of modification needs to applied to the IANA-GMPLS-TC-MIB at ht=
tps://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mib
>=20
> NEW
>=20
> Same type of modification needs to applied to the IANA-GMPLS-TC-MIB at ht=
tps://www.iana.org/assignments/ianagmplstc-mib/ianagmplstc-mib, where the v=
alue
>=20
> OTN-TDM (110),=A0=A0=A0=A0 -- Time-Division-Multiplex OTN-TDM capable
>=20
> Will be added to the IANAGmplsSwitchingTypeTC ::=3D TEXTUAL-CONVENTION sy=
ntax list.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I note also that the value 40 from RFC6060 didn't make it into the mib.
>=20
> The rest of these are more nitty nits:
>=20
> ---
> In section 4, I think you've repeated a MUST, and risk introducing confus=
ion.
> It's awkward to point to this with paragraph numbers because of the inter=
spersed tables, so I'll quote the relevant block:
>=20
>=A0=A0=A0 When supporting the extensions defined in this document, the
>=A0=A0=A0 Switching Capability and Encoding values MUST be used as follows=
:
>=A0=20
>=A0=A0=A0 - Switching Capability =3D OTN-TDM
>=A0=A0=A0 - Encoding Type =3D G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) as defined in [RFC=
4328]
>=A0=20
>=A0=A0=A0 Both for fixed and flexible ODUs the same switching type and enc=
oding
>=A0=A0=A0 values MUST be used.
> If I read that correctly , those are the same MUST and you're saying it's=
 a MUST no matter whether you're talking about fixed or flexible ODUs.
> If that's correct I suggest replacing this with:
>=20
>=A0=A0=A0 When supporting the extensions defined in this document, for bot=
h
>=A0=A0=A0 fixed and flexible ODUs, the Switching Capability and Encoding v=
alues=20
>=A0=A0=A0 MUST be used as follows:
>=A0=20
>=A0=A0=A0 - Switching Capability =3D OTN-TDM
>=A0=A0=A0 - Encoding Type =3D G.709 ODUk (Digital Path) as defined in [RFC=
4328]
> (or leave out the fixed and flexible clarification altogether - I would n=
ot have been confused without it).=20
> [[Authors]] Comment correct. New text adopted.
>=20
>=20
> ---
>=20
> In section 8.2, where you say "IANA will create and maintain a new regist=
ry", I suggest you say "new sub-registry".
> [[Authors]] OK
>=20
>=20
> RjS
> _______________________________________________
> Gen-art mailing list
> Gen-art at ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art


From lberger@labn.net  Fri Nov 22 06:27:36 2013
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Subject: [CCAMP] Updated draft Vancouver 88 minutes available
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All,
	Updated draft minutes are available at
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/minutes/minutes-88-ccamp

Please send any comments/corrections/additions to the list.

Kudos to our minute taker, Daniele.

Much thanks,
Lou (and Deborah)
