From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk Mon Jul 4 02:07:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02ABD21F8654 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 02:07:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6nIuVMWldtly for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 02:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4759121F8587 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 02:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host1.cachelogic.com ([212.44.43.80] helo=dhcp-128-devlan.cachelogic.com) by mail5.atlas.pipex.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qdf7j-00089H-Hi for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:07:23 +0100 From: Ben Niven-Jenkins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 10:07:21 +0100 Message-Id: To: cdni@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Subject: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 09:07:26 -0000 Colleagues, Our first milestone is to submit the CDNI Problem Statement for = publication. Although I think the current document is in reasonably good = shape there are a number of questions (which I have included below) that = I think need to be answered as they will affect the final structure and = content of the problem statement. Questions (2), (3) & (4) below are related to the fact that prior to the = WG being formed the Problem Statement was used as a sort of "holding = area" for material that was relevant to WG formation but that wasn't = strictly related to describing the actual problem that CDNI is now = chartered to solve. Therefore, in order to progress the problem statement document it would = be useful to get feedback from the group on the following questions: 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and = control) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? = Does the problem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing = in mind that it is only a problem statement and not a = framework/specification and so doesn't need to be exhaustive in its = description)? 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the = scope of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not = undertake) is now documented in the WG's charter? 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section as = the priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's charter = and milestones? 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation and = research projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a = "moving target" and attempting to keep an up to date description could = be challenging and will almost certainly become out of date pretty = rapidly and therefore it may not be worthwhile trying to capture that = material within an RFC? If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be = directly relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references = to work by other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section = 6.3). 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in = the current document that people think need to be covered by additional = sections/text prior to the document being ready for publication? Thanks Ben= From zhouzp@huawei.com Mon Jul 4 08:50:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E365C21F86E6 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:50:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rSYtYNo684XF for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA35521F8699 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNT009SZFZ71O@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:49:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LNT008K8FZ7NP@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:49:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from z54906a ([10.138.73.38]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LNT003ZKFZ4R5@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:49:55 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:49:51 +0800 From: zhouzhipeng To: cdni@ietf.org Message-id: <000001cc3a62$03448550$09cd8ff0$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: zh-cn Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: Acw6YYJY6s2zTMpqSKu6OD4A7sNtYAAABGEw Subject: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?6L2s5Y+ROiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y?= =?utf-8?q?_draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2011 15:50:01 -0000 Dear, Pls kindly find that I have just uploaded a draft for CDNI: = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-00.txt. Comments welcome. Thanks. Zhipeng=20 -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org = [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 = 23:46 =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: zhouzp@huawei.com =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: zhouzp@huawei.com =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for = draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Zhipeng Zhou and posted to the IETF = repository. Filename: draft-zhou-cdni-use-case Revision: 00 Title: CDNI use case Creation date: 2011-07-04 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 9 Abstract: Industry needs the CDN interconnection to provide the CDN service that may cover a wider geographical area and a better service quality. In the real pragmatic operation, the relationship between two CDNs should concern many factors(for instance, CDN or CP may select the downstream CDN based on some principals or conditions or service authorizations), hence the CDN interconnection is defacto a sort of constrained interconnection. This document will give the use cases to indicate the models of how the CDN interconnection may be used and the associated examples for the use cases will be listed subsequently. = =20 The IETF Secretariat From bdavie@cisco.com Tue Jul 5 05:45:01 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E4DE21F8730 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 05:45:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dVvUgu3t-wNc for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 05:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ECA021F86A9 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 05:45:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=5870; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1309869900; x=1311079500; h=from:subject:date:references:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=ZTLOmokITCJpIFWOqmXhw6qUv+fyLHjj+9p9/0hwUAk=; b=FDCvtfYBjyJuPUIhPpiRSgILvuoIduwnh9tgLkbh3rHUPAE0dlQnmLLH UcDk6a7dFvoxsWJH2ciUk1LAkWqejtjiRvwkGEJCSxlixnjuHBU0dPfZM RCMCV61FPdfghhrY+wtwbIAMExIEXHPS6OZZoyKn4IeS6aOjv33xDeOri s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoAIAE8GE05Io8UR/2dsb2JhbABTmQqOdXeIeqRLnXKGNgSSNoR4i1o X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,479,1304294400"; d="scan'208,217";a="40661015" Received: from bgl-core-2.cisco.com ([72.163.197.17]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Jul 2011 12:44:58 +0000 Received: from [10.32.241.70] ([10.32.241.70]) by bgl-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p65Cisds021065 for ; Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:44:56 GMT From: Bruce Davie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-189-850212310 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 08:44:53 -0400 References: <20110701223523.17859.54099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: cdni@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 12:45:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail-189-850212310 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. Bruce Davie Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT > To: bsd@cisco.com > Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework > Revision: 00 > Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection > Creation date: 2011-07-01 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 47 >=20 > Abstract: > This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network > Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide > an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the > relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect > CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several > interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, > metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from > another. The intent of this document is to outline what each > interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces > and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed > specification to other documents. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat --Apple-Mail-189-850212310 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This = draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG. 

If you = have comments, please copy them to the CDNI = list.

Bruce Davie

Begin = forwarded message:

Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT
Subject: New Version = Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

A new = version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully = submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF = repository.

Filename: = draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision: 00
Title: = Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date: = 2011-07-01
WG ID: Individual Submission
Number = of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a = framework for Content Distribution Network
=   Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework = is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of = CDNI and to describe the
  relationships among the various = components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN = Interconnection requires the specification of several
=   interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request = routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of = content by one CDN from
  another.  The intent of = this document is to outline what each
  interface needs to = accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces
  and = mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed
=   specification to other documents.





The = IETF Secretariat

= --Apple-Mail-189-850212310-- From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Thu Jul 7 00:30:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4013C21F8801 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oLJczqVm-DwJ for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3900421F8812 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992DE416E0D; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB016.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C327416D7C; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB016.mail.lan ([10.110.17.16]) with mapi; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:16 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: "Peterson, Larry" , "cdni@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:17 -0400 Thread-Topic: new Internet Draft Thread-Index: Acv+wCTyxRA1YJ7ORsKgdLt613Ztdw9eGiZg Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAE@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <73B09441-5D82-4CA6-B665-1F7072D654BF@verivue.com> In-Reply-To: <73B09441-5D82-4CA6-B665-1F7072D654BF@verivue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] new Internet Draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:30:20 -0000 Hi Larry, I had a couple of comments/questions on the draft: In sections 5.x.1, i just wanted to clarify if the exchange of IP prefixes is just an example of a method for determining geo-footprint, or is there a more fundamental requirement for IP prefix information? In section 6.4, with respect to bypassing metadata distribution, checking availability windows on an initial request may not work well for certain types of content, e.g., HLS with relative uris and and endlist tag, where the manifest may point at multiple hours of content? As for proxying metadata requests, could that introduce scalability issues for the uCDN? thanx! -- Kevin J. Ma > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Peterson, Larry > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:33 PM > To: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: [CDNi] new Internet Draft >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We have posted a new I-D, available at >=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-00 >=20 > It presents a strawman for CDN interconnection, > and is meant to spur discussion. >=20 > Looking forward to your feedback. >=20 > Larry >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Thu Jul 7 00:30:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E74621F86B9 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xTi0LhMWDna9 for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB2521F887C for ; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C6478E059; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB023.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E4F678F183; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB023.mail.lan ([10.110.17.23]) with mapi; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:29:08 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: Bruce Davie , "cdni@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 03:30:20 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt Thread-Index: Acw7EUnSYRh2bW0/TJSx2wu3WXR+RgBJ03+A Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAF@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <20110701223523.17859.54099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAFMAILR002maill_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 07:30:34 -0000 --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAFMAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruce, The draft looks good and it reads well. I had a couple comments: Section 2 focuses on redirection, but does not discuss transparent proxying. It probably does not make sense in geo-footprint or capacity offload cases, but might certain resiliency cases benefit from not redirecting, e.g., if network interruptions are transient? In Section 3.2, though there is a note in the first paragraph about the use of HTTP redirection inside uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps worth mentioning more explicitly that steps 3/4/5 and 7/8/9 may be combined? The use of intra-CDN HTTP redirects is not necessarily germane to CDNI, but the additional steps could be construed to imply that HTTP redirects are inherently more complex than DNS? In Section 3.2.1, there is an allusion to a solution to the cookie problem, possibly in a future version of the draft. Section 5.2 of draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-01 discusses a possible solution. Is the intent to roll something similar into the framework document? In Section 3.7, prepositioning is shown as a notification to the dCDN which then pulls the content from the uCDN. Could there be a case where the uCDN might push content to the dCDN? In section 4.5, in response to the question of metadata vs control, I had interpreted metadata as affecting distribution, i.e., things checked on each end user request, e.g., content sunrise/sunset, geo-restrictions, etc., whereas control was for actions originating from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., purge, pre-positioning, etc.? In Section 5, do you see an additional case whereby the CSP could use the CDNI interfaces for interacting with the uCDN rather than having to rely on interfaces outside the scope of CDNI, i.e., where the CSP has a management agent (MA) for accessing the control, metadata, and logging interfaces, in order to manage distribution, while leaving the request routing to the uCDN or CDN exchange? ##################################### ################## # # # # # Organization A # # Organization B # # # # # # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # # / CSP \ / uCDN(MA) \ # # / uCDN \ # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | C |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| C | | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | L |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| L | | # # | |*****| +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | # # | | RR | | # # | | | | # # | +----+ | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | D |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| D | | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # \ / \ / # # \ / # # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # # # # # ##################################### ################## thanx! -- Kevin J. Ma From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bru= ce Davie Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.= txt This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG. If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. Bruce Davie Begin forwarded message: From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT To: bsd@cisco.com Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successful= ly submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework Revision: 00 Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection Creation date: 2011-07-01 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 47 Abstract: This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from another. The intent of this document is to outline what each interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed specification to other documents. The IETF Secretariat --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAFMAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruce,

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

  The draft looks good and it rea= ds well.  I had a couple comments:

&nbs= p;

  Section 2 focuses on redirection, but does n= ot discuss transparent

  proxying.  It = probably does not make sense in geo-footprint or

=   capacity offload cases, but might certain resiliency cases benefit

  from not redirecting, e.g., if network inte= rruptions are transient?

 =

  In Section 3.2, though there is a note in the first paragra= ph about

  the use of HTTP redirection insid= e uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps

  worth menti= oning more explicitly that steps 3/4/5 and 7/8/9 may be

  combined?  The use of intra-CDN HTTP redirects is not ne= cessarily

  germane to CDNI, but the additio= nal steps could be construed to

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>  imply that= HTTP redirects are inherently more complex than DNS?

=

 

  In Section 3.2.1, there is an = allusion to a solution to the cookie

  probl= em, possibly in a future version of the draft.  Section 5.2 of

  draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-01 discusses a possi= ble solution.  Is

  the intent to roll = something similar into the framework document?

 

  In Section 3.7, prepositioning is sho= wn as a notification to the

  dCDN which the= n pulls the content from the uCDN.  Could there be a=

  case where the uCDN might push content to the dCDN?

 

  In section 4.5, = in response to the question of metadata vs control,

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>  I had interpreted metadata as affecting distribution, i.e.,= things

  checked on each end user request, = e.g., content sunrise/sunset,

  geo-restrict= ions, etc., whereas control was for actions originating

  from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., purge, pre-positioning, etc.?

 

  In Section 5= , do you see an additional case whereby the CSP could

=

  use the CDNI interfaces for interacting with the uCDN rather th= an

  having to rely on interfaces outside th= e scope of CDNI, i.e., where

  the CSP has a= management agent (MA) for accessing the control,

  metadata, and logging interfaces, in order to manage distribution,<= o:p>

  while leaving the request routing to the u= CDN or CDN exchange?

 

   #####################################   &= nbsp;   ##################

  = #            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          #   = ;    #         =        #

 &nbs= p; #       Organization A   &n= bsp;          #   &n= bsp;   # Organization B #

 &n= bsp; #           &nb= sp;            =            #  &= nbsp;    #        &n= bsp;       #

 =   #     --------     &nbs= p; -------------  #       #  ------= -----   #

   #  &= nbsp; /   CSP  \     /   uCDN(= MA)  \ #       # /   uCDN = ;   \  #

   #  = ;  |        |   &nbs= p; |  +----+     | #     =   # |  +----+   |  #

&nb= sp;  #    |        |=      |  | C  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DC= DNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| C  |   |  #

   #    |     &nbs= p;  |     |  +----+     |= #       # |  +----+   | = #

   #    |  =       |     |  +----+&nbs= p;    | #       # |  +---= -+   |  #

   # &nbs= p;  |        |   &nb= sp; |  | L  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>= ;| L  |   |  #

   #=     |        |*****| = ; +----+     | #       # = |  +----+   |  #

  = #    |        | &nb= sp;   |         &nbs= p;   | #       # |  +----+&nbs= p;  |  #

   #  &nbs= p; |        |     |&= nbsp;            | #=        # |  | RR |   |  #=

   #    |  &n= bsp;     |     |   &= nbsp;         | #   =     # |  +----+   |  #=

   #    |     &n= bsp;  |     |  +----+    = | #       # |  +----+   |&nbs= p; #

   #    | &nbs= p;      |     |  | D = ; |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| D  | &n= bsp; |  #

   #    |=         |     | = ; +----+     | #       # = |  +----+   |  #

  = #    \        / &nb= sp;   \         &nbs= p;   / #       # \   = ;        /  #

=

   #     --------    = ;   -------------  #       #&n= bsp; -----------   #

   #&nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;         #    = ;   #          =       #

=    ###= ##################################       ####= ##############

 

t= hanx!

 

--  K= evin J. Ma

 

 

From:<= /b> cdni= -bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bruce = Davie
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM
To: cdni@iet= f.org
Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cd= ni-framework-00.txt

<= o:p> 

This draft may be of interest to t= he CDNI WG. 

 =

If you have comments, please copy them = to the CDNI list.

 =

Bruce Davie

 

Begin for= warded message:



Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

<= div>

Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cd= ni-framework-00.txt

 

A new version of I-D, draft-dav= ie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and= posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       draft-davie-cdni-frameworkRevision:      = ; 00
Title:    =           Framework fo= r CDN Interconnection
Creation date: &= nbsp;          2011-07= -01
WG ID:     &nb= sp;            =    Individual Submission
Number of pages: 47

Ab= stract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distr= ibution Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of= the framework is to provide
  an overall picture of the probl= em space of CDNI and to describe the
  relationships among the= various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CD= N Interconnection requires the specification of several
  inte= rfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
 &= nbsp;metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from
&= nbsp; another.  The intent of this document is to outline what ea= ch
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their = detailed
  specification to other documents.




The IETF Secretariat

<= o:p> 

= --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAFMAILR002maill_-- From hexiaoyan@huawei.com Fri Jul 8 01:30:35 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F20921F86B1 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 01:30:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.181 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQ6X69CugyTS for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 01:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDF9621F86B3 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 01:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO000H3SA8QAH@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:29:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO000GQFA8QV6@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:29:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.113.87]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LO0008G3A8P4N@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:29:13 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:29:12 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: To: 'Bruce Davie' , cdni@ietf.org Message-id: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1jh55ZQM4tqTsot9ypCc/g)" Thread-index: Acw7EWC3f+/+XThmTleF+2shcVeqjwCJu3QQ Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBm?= =?gb2312?b?b3IJZHJhZnQtZGF2aWUtY2RuaS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDAudHh0?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 08:30:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_1jh55ZQM4tqTsot9ypCc/g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruce, Some comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft: =20 1. Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery node = in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3. An interface between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added. =20 2. In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with = an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration. = The upstream CDN generally would like to keep the CP relationship exclusive, = and won=A1=AFt expose it to connected CDNs. What=A1=AFs your view on this, = could there a new paragraph be added in this framework draft to address this? I can = make a proposal on this if it is thought valuable.=20 =20 3. Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows: * It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be specified. =20 * It is also not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via the request router interface, I think = description on such actions should be specified. =20 * On the disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node of a downstream CDN can also = =A1=AEsee=A1=AF the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. Which to me means the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its peers. =20 * The protocols used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, = the existing protocols used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and = I also drafted a contribution on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-reques= tro uting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some proposal on this = part and merge some text of my draft into this framework draft. =20 4. HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive redirection = are all mentioned in this document, do you have any preference on these = methods selection? I think some guideline or principle on method selection = should be specified, such as the method for a content could be arranged by the CSP = to the upCDN and then to the downCDN?=20 =20 Thanks. =20 Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Bruce Davie =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 20:45 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 =20 If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. =20 Bruce Davie =20 Begin forwarded message: From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT To: bsd@cisco.com Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework Revision: 00 Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection Creation date: 2011-07-01 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 47 Abstract: This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from another. The intent of this document is to outline what each interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed specification to other documents. The IETF Secretariat =20 --Boundary_(ID_1jh55ZQM4tqTsot9ypCc/g) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Bruce,

Some = comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft:

 <= /span>

1.       Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery = node in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3.

An interface = between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added.

 <= /span>

2. In the context = of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with an upstream CDN, but not = multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration. = The upstream CDN generally would like to = keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=A1=AFt expose it to connected CDNs. = What=A1=AFs your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added in this framework = draft to address this?  I can make a proposal on this if it is thought = valuable.

 <= /span>

3.       Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows:

Ÿ          It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of = an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be specified.

 

Ÿ  It is also = not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the = delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via = the request router interface, I think description on such actions should be specified.

 <= /span>

Ÿ On the = disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request = routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you = give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node = of a downstream CDN can also =A1=AEsee=A1=AF the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. = Which to me means  the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers.

 

Ÿ The protocols = used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, the existing protocols = used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and I also drafted a = contribution on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-requ= estrouting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some = proposal on this part and merge some text of my draft into this framework = draft.

 <= /span>

4.       HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive = redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have any preference on these = methods selection? I think some guideline or principle on method selection = should be specified, such as the method for a content could be arranged by the CSP = to the upCDN and then to the downCDN?

 <= /span>

Thanks.=

 <= /span>

Best = Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA= =B1=ED Bruce Davie
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 = 20:45
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

This draft may be = of interest to the CDNI WG. 

 

If you have comments, please copy them to the = CDNI list.

 

Bruce Davie

 

Begin forwarded = message:



Date: = July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

Subject= : New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by = Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision: 00
Title:        &n= bsp;     Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:       2011-07-01
WG ID:         = Individual Submission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distribution = Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework = is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to = describe the
  relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification = of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN = from
  another.  The intent of this document is to outline = what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their = detailed
  specification to other documents.





The IETF Secretariat

 

--Boundary_(ID_1jh55ZQM4tqTsot9ypCc/g)-- From flefauch@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 02:35:42 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D727E21F898C for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.805 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.805 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.557, BAYES_50=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jdo43iCndb+W for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F8721F8949 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 02:35:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=116190; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310117737; x=1311327337; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:cc:to: message-id; bh=Pg51lqK8iWbVNCW7mxD5w0Ug+6cuVyRLGyG9lCQyg3Y=; b=E4R7k1/b3A8qCadK8grqyK5CuZKyOM3+2T+59nEM0UObB2veY0/9SUwc NWnMBD6E41fDrHDi3TEUe6eeNAd0TtDq4nyW6LMjg5OOtC+m8LuFFwy3c KN7Kdy5Q+jHQfRTaRhtcNkM7n1fApFvoeN5vUQPY4v5KhjyX3hyXduStD s=; X-Files: image001.jpg, green.gif : 11041, 87 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,498,1304294400"; d="gif'147?jpg'147,145?scan'147,145,208,145,147,217";a="41205916" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2011 09:35:32 +0000 Received: from ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com (ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com [10.55.161.197]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p689ZRCv009450; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:35:28 GMT From: Francois Le Faucheur Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-241--1049440011 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:35:25 +0200 References: <828F91BD-2299-45C0-8D1C-193DAE705D02@cisco.com> To: Niven-Jenkins Ben , Nabil Bitar N Message-Id: <9C7F201C-E4B1-4C3C-9E75-A2ECA733C966@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:35:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail-241--1049440011 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Ben, Nabil, Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of = cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? Cheers Francois Begin forwarded message: > From: Francois Le Faucheur > Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST > To: He Xiaoyan > Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request routing >=20 > Hi again, >=20 > On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >=20 >> Hi Francois, >> Thanks for your reply. >> Some further concerns. >> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will = issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or = DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface between a = delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >=20 > We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the = Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent = and the uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. > Does that help ? >=20 > -------- > / \ > | CSP | > \ / > -------- > * > * > * /\ > * / \ > --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- > / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ > | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | > | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| CDN Control | | > | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | > | * * * | | | | * * * | > | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | > | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Logging |**** | > | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | > | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | > ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... > . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . > . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . > . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . > . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . > . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . > . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . > . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . > . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . > . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . > . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . > . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . > . \ / \ * / = . > . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . > . * = . > . * Delivery = . > . * = . > . +------+ = . > ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. > | Agent| > +------+ >=20 >=20 >=20 >> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be = considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN = directly interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >> -------- >> / \ >> | CSP | >> \ / >> -------- >> * >> * >> * /\ >> * / \ >> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >> | * * * | | | | * * * | >> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >> . \ / \ * / = . >> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >> . * = . >> . * Delivery = . >> . * = . >> . +------+ = . >> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >> | Agent| >> +------+ >> =A1=B0I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing = protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN = (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request = will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system = (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in = dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not be = excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of = mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >=20 > Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the = work on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying what functionality those need to support.=20 >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Francois=20 >=20 >=20 >> Thanks. >> =20 >> Best Regards >> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]=20= >> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request routing >> =20 >> Hello He, >> =20 >> You are right that these definitions have been written with handling = of enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition requests). >> =20 >> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a = downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing = system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, in = that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request = Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across = Request Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the = downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and = that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request = Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of = course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular = (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the = iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in = this case, I think the current definitions actually work, because with = respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN = and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the definitions of = upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user = request). >> =20 >> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >> =20 >> Francois >> =20 >> =20 >> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi all, >> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a = Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the = Downstream CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This = definition only covers requests initiated by users where upstream CDN = will query the downstream CDN for routing decision. There is another = case where recursive request routing is also utilized but not covered by = this definition in CDNI, i.e. In case of cache miss and hence dynamic = content acquisition invoked, for the content locate request issued by a = delivery node of downstream CDN, the downstream CDN can query the = upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my view, these are two = very similar scenarios with no essential difference on routing = procedure. >> =20 >> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream = CDN, the direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to = upstream CDN for content locate requests in case of dynamic content = acquisition is not covered. >> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or = something else? >> Thanks. >> =20 >> Best Regards >> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >> =20 >> >> =20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> >> =20 >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Francois Le Faucheur > Distinguished Engineer > Corporate Development > flefauch@cisco.com > Phone: +33 49 723 2619 > Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Cisco Systems France > Greenside > 400 Ave de Roumanille > 06410 Sophia Antipolis > France > Cisco.com >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > Think before you print. >=20 > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >=20 > Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >=20 > For corporate legal information go to: > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 >=20 Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --Apple-Mail-241--1049440011 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-242--1049440010 --Apple-Mail-242--1049440010 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Ben, = Nabil,

Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture = in the next rev of cdni-problem-statement as proposed = below?

Cheers

Francois


Begin forwarded message:

From: Francois Le = Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
Date: 9 June 2011 = 15:40:26 CEST
To: He Xiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
Cc: Francois Le = Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>, cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: = [CDNi] Comments on definition of recursive&iterative request = routing

Hi = again,

On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan = wrote:

=

Hi = Francois,

Thanks for your = reply.

Some further = concerns.

=A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream = CDN (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or = DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1

Not = very clear how that works because there is no interface between a delivery node and RR in = another CDN of CDNI model as = below.


We could = show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the Downstream CDN = and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie same interface as = the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and the uCDN/dCDN = Request Routing system) like shown below.
Does that help = ?

     = --------
     /    Upstream = CDN     \     = |    |      /   = Downstream CDN    \
     |     = +-------------+ | Control protocol| = +-------------+     = |
          = |            * * = *    |     |    = |      |   * * = *             = |
     = |     +------*------+ | Logging protocol| = +-----*-------+     = |
     | = ****| Logging     = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>|  = Logging    |**** |
     | = *            * = *    | Request Routing |   * = *             = * |
   = ....*...+--------*----+ |    = protocol     | = +---*---------+...*.....
   . | * * = +-------------+.|     |    = |      | +-------------+ * * |  = .
   . | * = *            * =    .  CDNI Metatdata |   = *             = * * |  .
   . | * * = +----------*--+ |.    protocol     | = +-*-----------+ * * |  .
   . | * * = |             = | |  .   \  /       | = |             = | * * |  .
   . | * * = |             = | |   .   \/        | = |             = | * * |  .
   . | * = ****+---------+ | |    ..Request........+---------+**** * = |  .
   . | = ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** |  = .
   . = |     | +---------+ | |   = Acquisition   | | +-----*---+ |     = |  .
   . = |     +-------------+ = |            &= nbsp;    | +-------*-----+     = |  .
   . = \            &= nbsp;   =      /       &= nbsp;         = \         = *           /  = .
   .  = ---------------------         = ;          = ---------*-----------   .
   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; * Delivery     = .
   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; = *            &= nbsp; .
   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;           = +------+          = .
   = ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request..

= And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be considered when we talking about that a cache in the = downstream CDN directly interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. =

     = --------

     /        = \

     |   CSP  = |

     \        = /

      = --------

          = *

          = *

          = *            &= nbsp;           /\

          = *            &= nbsp;          /  \

      ---------------------      |CDNI|       = ---------------------

     /    Upstream CDN     \     = |    |      /   Downstream = CDN    \

     |     = +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+     = |

     |     |CDN Control  |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D&g= t;| CDN Control |     |

     |     +------*-*-*--+ |     |    = |      | +-*-*-*-------+     |

     |            * * *    |     |    |      |   * * = *             = |

     |     = +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+     = |

     | ****| = Logging     |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>|  = Logging    |**** |

     | *   --------------+ |     |    = |      | +-------------+   * |

     | *            * *    | Request Routing |   * = *             = * |

   ....*...+--------*----+ |    protocol     | = +---*---------+...*.....

   . | * **|Req-Routing  = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * |  .

   . | * * +-------------+ = |     |    |      | +-------------+ * = * |  .

   . | * *            *    |  CDNI Metatdata |   = *             = * * |  .

   . | * * +----------*--+ |    protocol     | +-*-----------+ * * |  = .

   . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * |  .

   . | * * = |             = | |      \  = /       | = |             = | * * |  .

   . | * * = |             = | |       \/        | = |             = | * * |  .

   . | * ****+---------+ | = |            &= nbsp;    | | +---------+**** * |  .

   . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** |  = .

   . |     | +---------+ | |   Acquisition   | | +-----*---+ = |     |  .

   . |     +-------------+ = |            &= nbsp;    | +-------*-----+     |  = .

   . = \            &= nbsp;   =      /       &= nbsp;         \         *           /  = .

   .  = ---------------------         = ;          ---------*-----------   .

   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; = *            &= nbsp; .

   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; * Delivery     .

   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp; = *            &= nbsp; .

   = .            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;           +------+          = .

   = ...............Request...........................| User |..Request..

          &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;       =             &n= bsp;         | Agent|

          &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;            = ;            &= nbsp;    +------+

=A1=B0I am not sure we'd want = to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across = Request Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN = (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or = DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1

I = am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in dynamic content acquisition. = But I think any possibilities should not be excluded in requirement stage. =  In my understanding, election of mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage = (framework?)?


Deta= iled mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the work on = the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at identifying = what functionality those need to = support. 

Thank = you.

Francois 


<= /font>

Thanks.<= /span>

 

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan
=B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of recursive&iterative request = routing

 

Hello = He,

 

You are right = that these definitions have been written with handling of enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of = inter-CDN acquisition requests).

 

The logic is that = the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN = request routing system) can be considered simply as another request of its own = (only, in that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a = cache (eg via a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request = Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to = redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a 3rd CDN (CDN3), = then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in = this case, I think the current definitions actually work, because with = respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN and CDN3 is = the downstream CDN). (remember that the definitions of upstream CDN and = downstream CDN are all relative to a given user = request).

 

Thanks for = looking into the Requirements document.

 

Francois

 

 

On 8 Jun 2011, at = 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote:



Hi all,

Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request routing in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements.

1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to = redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the = Downstream CDN Request = Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the Downstream CDN = wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition only covers = requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the downstream CDN for routing = decision. There is another case where recursive request routing is also utilized = but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In case of cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the content locate request = issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the downstream CDN can query the = upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my view, these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on routing = procedure.

 

2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, = the definition only covers the case that requests redirected from upstream = CDN to downstream CDN, the direction that requests redirected from downstream = CDN to upstream CDN for content locate requests in case of dynamic content = acquisition is not covered.

Is the intent to exclude routings for content = locate requests or something else?

Thanks.

 

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) He

 

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Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 = 90

Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


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=



Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.


Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.
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filename=green.gif Content-Type: image/gif; name="green.gif" Content-Id: R0lGODlhEgATAJEAAAAAAP///wCZAP///yH5BAEAAAMALAAAAAASABMAAAIojI+pGyK8nINqUiTf bVnfvHEg1UmhdZRqaawu6XZVjKb0/CYxo8JOAQA7 --Apple-Mail-242--1049440010-- --Apple-Mail-241--1049440011-- From grant.watson@bt.com Fri Jul 8 06:26:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB27321F8A5E for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:26:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.745, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CliEkvGkvt+F for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpe1.intersmtp.com (smtp63.intersmtp.COM [62.239.224.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E0D21F8A5D for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EVMHT69-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net (10.36.3.129) by RDW083A007ED63.smtp-e3.hygiene.service (10.187.98.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.159.2; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:26:25 +0100 Received: from EMV64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net ([169.254.1.38]) by EVMHT69-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net ([10.36.3.129]) with mapi; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:26:25 +0100 From: To: , Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:26:24 +0100 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement Thread-Index: Acw6Kc6+DXmNBIv9SeG7VLZyTWLc5QDR+CNg Message-ID: <1F3DE948AD28CB4D905D51039D081AF62659902006@EMV64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 13:26:28 -0000 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and control= ) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? Does the pr= oblem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing in mind that it= is only a problem statement and not a framework/specification and so doesn= 't need to be exhaustive in its description)? >>>I think this is sufficient, in terms of detail I think there is sufficie= nt considering the context of the document. 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the scope = of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not undertake)= is now documented in the WG's charter? >>>I think that this is on the one hand repetition but perhaps it adds valu= e to hold this (at least from a HL) in this document should it be used as a= landing-point to understand CDNI? 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section as th= e priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's charter and = milestones? >>>I think that this can be removed. 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation and re= search projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a "moving tar= get" and attempting to keep an up to date description could be challenging = and will almost certainly become out of date pretty rapidly and therefore i= t may not be worthwhile trying to capture that material within an RFC? >>>Personally I don't see value in this section right now, others may do. If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be directl= y relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references to work by = other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section 6.3). >>>Agreed. 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in the c= urrent document that people think need to be covered by additional sections= /text prior to the document being ready for publication? >>>>I don't have anything additional that is not already covered elsewhere,= use-cases I-D for example. Cheers. grant -----Original Message----- From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben= Niven-Jenkins Sent: 04 July 2011 10:07 To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement Colleagues, Our first milestone is to submit the CDNI Problem Statement for publication= . Although I think the current document is in reasonably good shape there a= re a number of questions (which I have included below) that I think need to= be answered as they will affect the final structure and content of the pro= blem statement. Questions (2), (3) & (4) below are related to the fact that prior to the WG= being formed the Problem Statement was used as a sort of "holding area" fo= r material that was relevant to WG formation but that wasn't strictly relat= ed to describing the actual problem that CDNI is now chartered to solve. Therefore, in order to progress the problem statement document it would be = useful to get feedback from the group on the following questions: 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and control= ) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? Does the pr= oblem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing in mind that it= is only a problem statement and not a framework/specification and so doesn= 't need to be exhaustive in its description)? 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the scope = of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not undertake)= is now documented in the WG's charter? 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section as th= e priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's charter and = milestones? 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation and re= search projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a "moving tar= get" and attempting to keep an up to date description could be challenging = and will almost certainly become out of date pretty rapidly and therefore i= t may not be worthwhile trying to capture that material within an RFC? If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be directl= y relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references to work by = other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section 6.3). 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in the c= urrent document that people think need to be covered by additional sections= /text prior to the document being ready for publication? Thanks Ben _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From gilles.bertrand@orange-ftgroup.com Fri Jul 8 06:54:43 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEFA21F89DF for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0zK1I3Wnc5p0 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD93E21F89D6 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 06:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 97BCE8B8014 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:55:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.192.128.47]) by p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38A48B802E for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:55:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ftrdmel0.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.56]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:54:29 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:54:28 +0200 Message-ID: <8E09C72DBC577D489F13A71228C0B7BF028425C1@ftrdmel0.rd.francetelecom.fr> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt Thread-Index: Acw9cwWQ242ZkAmjTAWLVU6jCHbEWAAAKl8A From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2011 13:54:29.0683 (UTC) FILETIME=[8EB91030:01CC3D76] Subject: [CDNi] TR: I-D Action: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 13:54:43 -0000 Colleagues, We have submitted a new version of draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases, which = now merges input from draft-watson-cdni-use-cases and = draft-ma-cdni-publisher-use-cases. Best regards, -- Gilles -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de = internet-drafts@ietf.org Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 8 juillet 2011 15:29 =C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. Title : Use Cases for Content Delivery Network = Interconnection Author(s) : Gilles Bertrand Stephan Emile Grant Watson Trevor Burbridge Philip Eardley Kevin Ma Filename : draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2011-07-08 Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) are commonly used for improving the footprint and the end-user experience of a content delivery service, at a reasonable cost. This document outlines real world use-cases (not technical solutions) for interconnecting CDNs. It provides the business motivations for CDNI Working Group, which can be used to validate different interconnection arrangements, and requirements of the various CDNI interfaces. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.txt _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From flefauch@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 07:13:37 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96CBD21F8A75 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.829 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.829 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.770, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WGIDDfXk7U7 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414EB21F8A73 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=6532; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310134416; x=1311344016; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=EM2loZx0oBRWTKyeJwT6gILeIS/Cvu4tfVrFhvllLq0=; b=BPTpHnOgkyC3kM+nQZQPGwN+G48ClEABoEQIBQTHfxADfB4Vc2Y/8Zkt u4sf6GmwJtASa1BkF3h57Di+d7We6OgYFOQ/EyGQmNbQ3MfszTLlBZmsF Eijy+8xCnvvEA3iDYsuQ73NkZpGtkXCL4gpeE+4ozIWwe1RuBi+8t/i0L Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,499,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="41249944" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2011 14:13:35 +0000 Received: from ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com (ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com [10.55.161.197]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p68EDYYN022568; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:13:34 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francois Le Faucheur In-Reply-To: <1F3DE948AD28CB4D905D51039D081AF62659902006@EMV64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:13:26 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B5DD5B9-27A5-46FA-8444-F6C5D0CB6619@cisco.com> References: <1F3DE948AD28CB4D905D51039D081AF62659902006@EMV64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> To: Grant Watson , Niven-Jenkins Ben X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 14:13:37 -0000 (Individual hat on) On 8 Jul 2011, at 15:26, wrote: > 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and = control) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? = Does the problem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing = in mind that it is only a problem statement and not a = framework/specification and so doesn't need to be exhaustive in its = description)? >>>> I think this is sufficient, in terms of detail I think there is = sufficient considering the context of the document. Agreed. One minor point on the editorial side: the charter has converged on a = terminology of "interfaces" ("CDNI request-routing interface", "CDNI = metadata interface", "CDNI logging interface" and "CDNI control = interface"), so the problem statement needs to align to that of course. > 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the = scope of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not = undertake) is now documented in the WG's charter? >>>> I think that this is on the one hand repetition but perhaps it adds = value to hold this (at least from a HL) in this document should it be = used as a landing-point to understand CDNI? I could go either way. If you keep it in, there is a small theoretical risk that it becomes = incorrect and in conflict with the charter in case the charter evolves = in the future to expend/reduce its scope. On the positive side it provides a useful discussion on why = "acquisition" is out of scope, which is the question that has been = raised many times. My suggestion would be to: * remove the section and the list of excluded items (since it is = in the charter)=20 * move the discussion at the end re acquisition to another part = of the document (ie section 3.1). >=20 > 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section = as the priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's = charter and milestones? >>>> I think that this can be removed. Agreed. The idea of "prioritizing the CDNI work" is also introduced in the = cdni-requirements anyways. >=20 > 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation = and research projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a = "moving target" and attempting to keep an up to date description could = be challenging and will almost certainly become out of date pretty = rapidly and therefore it may not be worthwhile trying to capture that = material within an RFC? >>>> Personally I don't see value in this section right now, others may = do. Move to an appendix, as a snapshot of the state of affairs at a given = point it time? Not essential to the document, but possibly useful background material = to some. >=20 > If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be = directly relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references = to work by other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section = 6.3). >>>> Agreed. Agreed this part shoudl stay in. >=20 > 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in = the current document that people think need to be covered by additional = sections/text prior to the document being ready for publication? >>>>> I don't have anything additional that is not already covered = elsewhere, use-cases I-D for example. I am not aware of additional stuff needed either. Cheers Francois >=20 > Cheers. > grant >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ben Niven-Jenkins > Sent: 04 July 2011 10:07 > To: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement >=20 > Colleagues, >=20 > Our first milestone is to submit the CDNI Problem Statement for = publication. Although I think the current document is in reasonably good = shape there are a number of questions (which I have included below) that = I think need to be answered as they will affect the final structure and = content of the problem statement. >=20 > Questions (2), (3) & (4) below are related to the fact that prior to = the WG being formed the Problem Statement was used as a sort of "holding = area" for material that was relevant to WG formation but that wasn't = strictly related to describing the actual problem that CDNI is now = chartered to solve. >=20 > Therefore, in order to progress the problem statement document it = would be useful to get feedback from the group on the following = questions: >=20 > 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and = control) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? = Does the problem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing = in mind that it is only a problem statement and not a = framework/specification and so doesn't need to be exhaustive in its = description)? >=20 > 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the = scope of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not = undertake) is now documented in the WG's charter? >=20 > 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section = as the priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's = charter and milestones? >=20 > 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation = and research projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a = "moving target" and attempting to keep an up to date description could = be challenging and will almost certainly become out of date pretty = rapidly and therefore it may not be worthwhile trying to capture that = material within an RFC? >=20 > If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be = directly relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references = to work by other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section = 6.3). >=20 > 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in = the current document that people think need to be covered by additional = sections/text prior to the document being ready for publication? >=20 > Thanks > Ben > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Fri Jul 8 08:23:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6460821F8A67 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XTYXXdNMx-SS for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F28121F8A49 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:23:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41AF417094; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:23:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB016.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5F24170C4; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB016.mail.lan ([10.110.17.16]) with mapi; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:23:33 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: He Xiaoyan , 'Bruce Davie' , "cdni@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:23:32 -0400 Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0NETmldIOetlOWkjTogIE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IJ?= =?utf-8?B?ZHJhZnQtZGF2aWUtY2RuaS1mcmFtZXdvcmstMDAudHh0?= Thread-Index: Acw7EWC3f+/+XThmTleF+2shcVeqjwCJu3QQABGUAzA= Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24MAILR002maill_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?utf-8?q?r=09draft-davie-cdni-framework-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 15:23:48 -0000 --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24MAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgWGlhb3lhbiwNCg0KSSBoYWQgYSBxdWljayBjb21tZW50IHlvdXIgc2Vjb25kIHF1ZXN0aW9u LCB3aXRoIHJlc3BlY3QgdG8gbXVsdGlwbGUgQ0ROczsNCkkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGNsYXJpZnkgd2hh dCB3YXMgbWVhbnQgYnkgImJ1dCBub3QgbXVsdGlwbGUgQ0ROcyI/DQoNCj4gMi4gSW4gdGhlIGNv bnRleHQgb2YgQ0ROaSwgYSBjb250ZW50IHByb3ZpZGVyIChDUCkgY29udHJhY3RzIG9ubHkgd2l0 aCBhbiB1cHN0cmVhbSBDRE4sIGJ1dCBub3QgbXVsdGlwbGUgQ0ROcyBmb3IgY29udGVudCBkZWxp dmVyeSBhY2NlbGVyYXRpb24uDQoNCkkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCBDUHMgbWF5IG5vdCBoYXZlIGJ1c2lu ZXNzIHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcHMgd2l0aCBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIENETnMNCmludm9sdmVkIGluIGRlbGl2 ZXJpbmcgdGhlaXIgY29udGVudCAoaS5lLiwgdGhleSBtYXkgY29udHJhY3Qgd2l0aCB1Q0ROcywN 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cD48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2JvZHk+PC9odG1sPg== --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24MAILR002maill_-- From bdavie@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 08:53:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82EC21F87E2 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:53:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YIDE4OVRVAKe for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5E421F8B3F for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:53:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=48974; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310140421; x=1311350021; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=K2j6bW3RFQh+DJ4UMeRc2tsVZ8qu55j3mgk0tm5w460=; b=jT4jUb5LVRhvyLxszKr/t245QsmKgKwpSaGeqpflYE5J1X7QyvNHT9kc c8WTddyV62LEbpL3qVSz6qAe70GxJYs23bUL0y+OmVMXg/F8XXIIk9GHm OaINABeauwUVO7ogEvbuEyLkIGHIg6khesq7NpiwVB2QkXFs5zmcQoHhN g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvgAAHAnF05Io8UT/2dsb2JhbABSglGVPo83d4h7pBGdeYY4BJJMhH2LYw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,499,1304294400"; d="scan'208,217";a="41264341" Received: from bgl-core-4.cisco.com ([72.163.197.19]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2011 15:53:38 +0000 Received: from [10.32.241.70] ([10.32.241.70]) by bgl-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p68FrXxV019068; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:53:35 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-265--1026752606 From: Bruce Davie In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAF@MAILR002.mail.lan> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:53:32 -0400 Message-Id: References: <20110701223523.17859.54099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAF@MAILR002.mail.lan> To: Kevin J Ma X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 15:53:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail-265--1026752606 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: > Hi Bruce, > =20 > The draft looks good and it reads well. I had a couple comments: Thanks for the feedback and detailed review. Comments in line: > =20 > Section 2 focuses on redirection, but does not discuss transparent > proxying. It probably does not make sense in geo-footprint or > capacity offload cases, but might certain resiliency cases benefit > from not redirecting, e.g., if network interruptions are transient? Well, I think we want to leave transparent proxies off the table, not = least because of this statement in the Charter: "In particular, the WG will not define:=20 [...] - Support for Transparent Caching across CDNs. " That said, we may be able to add something about the fact that a uCDN = always has the option of not redirecting whenever it chooses. > =20 > In Section 3.2, though there is a note in the first paragraph about > the use of HTTP redirection inside uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps > worth mentioning more explicitly that steps 3/4/5 and 7/8/9 may be > combined? The use of intra-CDN HTTP redirects is not necessarily > germane to CDNI, but the additional steps could be construed to > imply that HTTP redirects are inherently more complex than DNS? Yes, we talked about this among the authors actually. The reason for = putting in those extra steps is for contrast between iterative and = recursive methods. But I agree we could add a note of clarification = here. > =20 > In Section 3.2.1, there is an allusion to a solution to the cookie > problem, possibly in a future version of the draft. Section 5.2 of > draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-01 discusses a possible solution. Is > the intent to roll something similar into the framework document? Yes, the careful reader will have noticed that a lot of text made its = way already from the strawman to the framework (along with the = co-author). We'll make a note to address this issue more fully in the = next version. > =20 > In Section 3.7, prepositioning is shown as a notification to the > dCDN which then pulls the content from the uCDN. Could there be a > case where the uCDN might push content to the dCDN? > =20 Well, it depends on how you define "push". As I see it, the CI PREP at = the start of the example effectively initiates a push of data, but we = rely on dCDN to issue the HTTP GET so that data actually flows. = Certainly I can think of other ways of doing it, and of course there is = no way the framework can exhaustively list all options (especially since = the acquisition protocol is out of scope, so we are using an obvious = available protocol). I guess the best resolution I can think of here is to say "This is not = the only way to do it". (This is a pretty general issue with the = Framework, as I see it - we're trying to explain things by example but I = don't think we can ever cover all possibilities that way.) > In section 4.5, in response to the question of metadata vs control, > I had interpreted metadata as affecting distribution, i.e., things > checked on each end user request, e.g., content sunrise/sunset, > geo-restrictions, etc., whereas control was for actions originating > from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., purge, pre-positioning, etc.? The reason that we have the sort of open ended text there at present is = because we don't really seem to have this distinction completely nailed = down as either an author team or a WG. While CDNI distribution metadata = is pretty well defined in the Problem Statement, you can still achieve = quite a bit of the distribution control using the control interface. So = I think this is a topic for discussion at the WG. > =20 > In Section 5, do you see an additional case whereby the CSP could > use the CDNI interfaces for interacting with the uCDN rather than > having to rely on interfaces outside the scope of CDNI, i.e., where > the CSP has a management agent (MA) for accessing the control, > metadata, and logging interfaces, in order to manage distribution, > while leaving the request routing to the uCDN or CDN exchange? I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what we = showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We = certainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be = used (e.g. a CDNI exchange might only do a subset of the interfaces). I = feel in this case, you are asking about the validity of using CDNI = interfaces for a CSP-uCDN interface, which feels to me to be out of = scope for a WG focused on the inter-CDN interfaces (even if it would be = nice to have this ability). > =20 > ##################################### ################## > # # # # > # Organization A # # Organization B # > # # # # > # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # > # / CSP \ / uCDN(MA) \ # # / uCDN \ # > # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | | C |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| C | | # > # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | | L |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| L | | # > # | |*****| +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | | # # | | RR | | # > # | | | | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # | | | | D |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| D | | # > # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # > # \ / \ / # # \ / # > # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # > # # # # > ##################################### ################## > =20 > thanx! Thank you Bruce > =20 > -- Kevin J. Ma > =20 > =20 > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Bruce Davie > Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM > To: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 > =20 > If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. > =20 > Bruce Davie > =20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT > To: bsd@cisco.com > Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework > Revision: 00 > Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection > Creation date: 2011-07-01 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 47 >=20 > Abstract: > This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network > Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide > an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the > relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect > CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several > interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, > metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from > another. The intent of this document is to outline what each > interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces > and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed > specification to other documents. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat > =20 --Apple-Mail-265--1026752606 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Kevin J = Ma wrote:

Hi = Bruce,
 
  Section 2 focuses on = redirection, but does not discuss = transparent
  proxying.  It probably = does not make sense in geo-footprint or
  from not redirecting, e.g., = if network interruptions are = transient?

Well, I think we want to leave transparent proxies off the table, not = least because of this statement in the Charter:
"In = particular, the WG will not define:
[...]
- Support for Transparent Caching across CDNs. = "

That said, we may be able to add = something about the fact that a uCDN always has the option of not = redirecting whenever it chooses.


 
  the use of HTTP redirection = inside uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps
  combined?  The use of = intra-CDN HTTP redirects is not necessarily
 imply that HTTP redirects are = inherently more complex than = DNS?

Yes, we = talked about this among the authors actually. The reason for putting in = those extra steps is for contrast between iterative and recursive = methods. But I agree we could add a note of clarification = here.

 
  problem, possibly in a future = version of the draft.  Section 5.2 of
  the intent to roll something = similar into the framework = document?

Yes, = the careful reader will have noticed that a lot of text made its way = already from the strawman to the framework (along with the co-author). = We'll make a note to address this issue more fully in the next = version.

 
  dCDN which then pulls the content = from the uCDN.  Could there be a

I guess the best = resolution I can think of here is to say "This is not the only way to do = it". (This is a pretty general issue with the Framework, as I see it - = we're trying to explain things by example but I don't think we can ever = cover all possibilities that = way.)



  I had interpreted = metadata as affecting distribution, i.e., = things
  checked on each end user = request, e.g., content sunrise/sunset,
  from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., = purge, pre-positioning, = etc.?

The reason = that we have the sort of open ended text there at present is because we = don't really seem to have this distinction completely nailed down as = either an author team or a WG. While CDNI distribution metadata is = pretty well defined in the Problem Statement, you can still achieve = quite a bit of the distribution control using the control interface. So = I think this is a topic for discussion at the = WG.


  In Section 5, do you see an = additional case whereby the CSP could
  having to rely on interfaces = outside the scope of CDNI, i.e., where
  metadata, and logging = interfaces, in order to manage distribution,
 
   = #            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;          = #       = #            &= nbsp;   #
   = #       Organization = A            &= nbsp; #       # Organization B = #
   = #            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;          = #       = #            &= nbsp;   #
   = #     --------       = -------------  #       #  = -----------   #
   = #    /   CSP  \     = /   uCDN(MA)  \ #       # = /   uCDN    \  = #
   #    = |        |     = |  +----+     | = #       # |  +----+   = |  #
   #    = |        |     = |  | C  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| = C  |   |  #
   #    = |        |     = |  +----+     | = #       # |  +----+   = |  #
   #    = |        |     = |  | L  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| = L  |   |  #
   #    = |        |     = |             = | #       # |  | RR |   = |  #
   #    = |        |     = |             = | #       # |  +----+   = |  #
   #    = |        |     = |  +----+     | = #       # |  +----+   = |  #
   #    = |        |     = |  | D  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| = D  |   |  #
   #    \ =        /     = \             = / #       # = \           /  = #
   #     = --------       -------------  = #       #  -----------   = #
   = #            &= nbsp;           &nb= sp;          = #       = #            &= nbsp;   #
   = #####################################       = ##################
 
 
 
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Bruce = Davie
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 = AM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] New Version = Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt
 
This draft may be of = interest to the CDNI WG. 
 
If you have = comments, please copy them to the CDNI = list.
Bruce = Davie
Begin forwarded = message:
Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt
 
A new version of I-D, = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by = Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       draft-davie-cdni-frame= work
Revision:       00
Title:        &= nbsp;     Framework for CDN = Interconnection
Creation date:        &= nbsp;   2011-07-01
WG = ID:        &= nbsp;            Individual = Submission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This = document presents a framework for Content Distribution = Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the = framework is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem = space of CDNI and to describe the
  relationships among the = various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs. =  CDN Interconnection requires the specification of = several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such = as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the = acquisition of content by one CDN from
  another.  The = intent of this document is to outline what each
  interface = needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving = their detailed
  specification to other = documents.





The IETF = Secretariat
Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:35:46 -0000 --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D6DMAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruce, The additional clarifications and caveats alluded to below sound good. With respect to the last point: > I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what we= showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We cer= tainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be used. I was thinking more about an opposite to Figure 13. I guess I just wanted to clarify if any subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if there is = a specific distinction for what is shown in Figure 13 (i.e. only RR). If the latter, then it might be helpful to explain the distinction further (e.g., is RR always required)? thanx. From: Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:54 AM To: Kevin J Ma Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework= -00.txt On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: Hi Bruce, The draft looks good and it reads well. I had a couple comments: Thanks for the feedback and detailed review. Comments in line: Section 2 focuses on redirection, but does not discuss transparent proxying. It probably does not make sense in geo-footprint or capacity offload cases, but might certain resiliency cases benefit from not redirecting, e.g., if network interruptions are transient? Well, I think we want to leave transparent proxies off the table, not least= because of this statement in the Charter: "In particular, the WG will not define: [...] - Support for Transparent Caching across CDNs. " That said, we may be able to add something about the fact that a uCDN alway= s has the option of not redirecting whenever it chooses. In Section 3.2, though there is a note in the first paragraph about the use of HTTP redirection inside uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps worth mentioning more explicitly that steps 3/4/5 and 7/8/9 may be combined? The use of intra-CDN HTTP redirects is not necessarily germane to CDNI, but the additional steps could be construed to imply that HTTP redirects are inherently more complex than DNS? Yes, we talked about this among the authors actually. The reason for puttin= g in those extra steps is for contrast between iterative and recursive meth= ods. But I agree we could add a note of clarification here. In Section 3.2.1, there is an allusion to a solution to the cookie problem, possibly in a future version of the draft. Section 5.2 of draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-01 discusses a possible solution. Is the intent to roll something similar into the framework document? Yes, the careful reader will have noticed that a lot of text made its way a= lready from the strawman to the framework (along with the co-author). We'll= make a note to address this issue more fully in the next version. In Section 3.7, prepositioning is shown as a notification to the dCDN which then pulls the content from the uCDN. Could there be a case where the uCDN might push content to the dCDN? Well, it depends on how you define "push". As I see it, the CI PREP at the = start of the example effectively initiates a push of data, but we rely on d= CDN to issue the HTTP GET so that data actually flows. Certainly I can thin= k of other ways of doing it, and of course there is no way the framework ca= n exhaustively list all options (especially since the acquisition protocol = is out of scope, so we are using an obvious available protocol). I guess the best resolution I can think of here is to say "This is not the = only way to do it". (This is a pretty general issue with the Framework, as = I see it - we're trying to explain things by example but I don't think we c= an ever cover all possibilities that way.) In section 4.5, in response to the question of metadata vs control, I had interpreted metadata as affecting distribution, i.e., things checked on each end user request, e.g., content sunrise/sunset, geo-restrictions, etc., whereas control was for actions originating from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., purge, pre-positioning, etc.? The reason that we have the sort of open ended text there at present is bec= ause we don't really seem to have this distinction completely nailed down a= s either an author team or a WG. While CDNI distribution metadata is pretty= well defined in the Problem Statement, you can still achieve quite a bit o= f the distribution control using the control interface. So I think this is = a topic for discussion at the WG. In Section 5, do you see an additional case whereby the CSP could use the CDNI interfaces for interacting with the uCDN rather than having to rely on interfaces outside the scope of CDNI, i.e., where the CSP has a management agent (MA) for accessing the control, metadata, and logging interfaces, in order to manage distribution, while leaving the request routing to the uCDN or CDN exchange? I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what we sho= wed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We certain= ly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be used (e.g= . a CDNI exchange might only do a subset of the interfaces). I feel in this= case, you are asking about the validity of using CDNI interfaces for a CSP= -uCDN interface, which feels to me to be out of scope for a WG focused on t= he inter-CDN interfaces (even if it would be nice to have this ability). ##################################### ################## # # # # # Organization A # # Organization B # # # # # # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # # / CSP \ / uCDN(MA) \ # # / uCDN \ # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | C |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| C | | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | L |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| L | | # # | |*****| +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | # # | | RR | | # # | | | | # # | +----+ | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # | | | | D |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| D | | # # | | | +----+ | # # | +----+ | # # \ / \ / # # \ / # # -------- ------------- # # ----------- # # # # # ##################################### ################## thanx! Thank you Bruce -- Kevin J. Ma From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Davie Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.= txt This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG. If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. Bruce Davie Begin forwarded message: From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT To: bsd@cisco.com Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successful= ly submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework Revision: 00 Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection Creation date: 2011-07-01 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 47 Abstract: This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from another. The intent of this document is to outline what each interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed specification to other documents. The IETF Secretariat --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D6DMAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruce,

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

  The additional clarifications a= nd caveats alluded to below sound good.

&nbs= p;

  With respect to the last point:

 

  > I guess = what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what we showed in F= igure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We certainly do se= e cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be used.

=  

 I was thinking more about an opposi= te to Figure 13.  I guess I just wanted

&n= bsp;to clarify if any subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if there = is a

 specific distinction for what is show= n in Figure 13 (i.e. only RR).  If

  th= e latter, then it might be helpful to explain the distinction further<= /o:p>

  (e.g., is RR always required)?

 

thanx.

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: = Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, July 08, 201= 1 11:54 AM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subje= ct: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-= 00.txt

 

 

On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 

&nb= sp; The draft looks good and it reads well.  I had a couple comments:<= /span>

 

Thanks for the feedback and detailed r= eview. Comments in line:



<= o:p>

 

&n= bsp; Section 2 focuses on redirection, but does not discuss transparent

  proxying.  It probably does n= ot make sense in geo-footprint or

&nb= sp; capacity offload cases, but might certain resiliency cases benefit

  from not redirecting, e.g., if netw= ork interruptions are transient?

 

Well,= I think we want to leave transparent proxies off the table, not least beca= use of this statement in the Charter:

"In particular, the WG will not define:
[...]
- Suppor= t for Transparent Caching across CDNs. "

 

That = said, we may be able to add something about the fact that a uCDN always has= the option of not redirecting whenever it chooses.

 


=

 

  the use of HTTP redirection = inside uCDN and dCDN, it is perhaps

&n= bsp; worth mentioning more explicitly that steps 3/4/5 and 7/8/9 may be

  combined?  The use of intra-C= DN HTTP redirects is not necessarily

&= nbsp; germane to CDNI, but the additional steps could be construed to

 imply that HTTP redirects are inheren= tly more complex than DNS?

 

Yes, we t= alked about this among the authors actually. The reason for putting in thos= e extra steps is for contrast between iterative and recursive methods. But = I agree we could add a note of clarification here.



 

  In Section 3.2.1, there is an allusion to a = solution to the cookie

  problem,= possibly in a future version of the draft.  Section 5.2 of

  draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-01 discusses= a possible solution.  Is

  = the intent to roll something similar into the framework document?

 

Yes, the careful reader will have noticed that = a lot of text made its way already from the strawman to the framework (alon= g with the co-author). We'll make a note to address this issue more fully i= n the next version.



<= /o:p>

 

  = In Section 3.7, prepositioning is shown as a notification to the

  dCDN which then pulls the content from th= e uCDN.  Could there be a

  = case where the uCDN might push content to the dCDN?

 

 

Well, it depends = on how you define "push". As I see it, the CI PREP at the start o= f the example effectively initiates a push of data, but we rely on dCDN to = issue the HTTP GET so that data actually flows. Certainly I can think of ot= her ways of doing it, and of course there is no way the framework can exhau= stively list all options (especially since the acquisition protocol is out = of scope, so we are using an obvious available protocol).

 

I guess the best resolution I can think of here is to say "This= is not the only way to do it". (This is a pretty general issue with t= he Framework, as I see it - we're trying to explain things by example but I= don't think we can ever cover all possibilities that way.)

<= /div>

 

 



  In section 4.5, in response to the question of m= etadata vs control,

  I had = interpreted metadata as affecting distribution, i.e., things

  checked on each end user request, e.g., conte= nt sunrise/sunset,

  geo-restrict= ions, etc., whereas control was for actions originating

  from the CSP or uCDN, e.g., purge, pre-positioning= , etc.?

&nb= sp;

The reason that we have the sort of= open ended text there at present is because we don't really seem to have t= his distinction completely nailed down as either an author team or a WG. Wh= ile CDNI distribution metadata is pretty well defined in the Problem Statem= ent, you can still achieve quite a bit of the distribution control using th= e control interface. So I think this is a topic for discussion at the WG.

 



 <= o:p>

  In Section 5, do you see an additional= case whereby the CSP could

  use= the CDNI interfaces for interacting with the uCDN rather than<= /o:p>

  having to rely on interfaces outside the sc= ope of CDNI, i.e., where

  the CS= P has a management agent (MA) for accessing the control,<= /p>

  metadata, and logging interfaces, in order to man= age distribution,

  while leaving= the request routing to the uCDN or CDN exchange?

 

I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what= we showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We = certainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be us= ed (e.g. a CDNI exchange might only do a subset of the interfaces). I feel = in this case, you are asking about the validity of using CDNI interfaces fo= r a CSP-uCDN interface, which feels to me to be out of scope for a WG focus= ed on the inter-CDN interfaces (even if it would be nice to have this abili= ty).

 



 

   ##########################= ###########       ##################

   #     &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;    #       #  &= nbsp;           &nbs= p; #

   #   &= nbsp;   Organization A       &= nbsp;      #       #= Organization B #

   # =             &nb= sp;            =          #    &= nbsp;  #          &n= bsp;     #

 &= nbsp; #     --------      = ; -------------  #       #  -------= ----   #

   # = ;   /   CSP  \     / &nbs= p; uCDN(MA)  \ #       # /   u= CDN    \  #

 =   #    |        |&nb= sp;    |  +----+     | #  = ;     # |  +----+   |  #

   #    |  &n= bsp;     |     |  | C  |= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| C  |  = ; |  #

   #  =   |        |    = ; |  +----+     | #     &= nbsp; # |  +----+   |  #

   #    |     &nbs= p;  |     |  +----+     |= #       # |  +----+   | = #

   #    |&= nbsp;       |     | = | L  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| L  = |   |  #

   #=     |        |*****| = ; +----+     | #       # = |  +----+   |  #

&= nbsp;  #    |       = |     |        = ;     | #       # | = +----+   |  #

 &n= bsp; #    |        | = ;    |         =     | #       # |  | RR |=    |  #

   #&= nbsp;   |        |  =    |          &= nbsp;  | #       # |  +----+ &= nbsp; |  #

   # &n= bsp;  |        |   &= nbsp; |  +----+     | #    &nb= sp;  # |  +----+   |  #

   #    |     =    |     |  | D  |=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DCDNI=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| D  |   |  #

   #    | &= nbsp;      |     |  +----= +     | #       # | = +----+   |  #

 &n= bsp; #    \        / = ;    \         =     / #       # \  &= nbsp;        /  #=

   #     -------- &n= bsp;     -------------  #    &= nbsp;  #  -----------   #

   #         = ;            &n= bsp;            = ; #       #     &nbs= p;          #

   #####################################&nbs= p;      ##################

 

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>thanx!

 

Thank you

 

Bruce



&nb= sp;

--  Kevin J. Ma

 

 <= /span>

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Davie
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM
To: cd= ni@ietf.org
Subject: = ;[CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.t= xt

 <= o:p>

This draft may be of interest= to the CDNI WG. 

&= nbsp;

If you have = comments, please copy them to the CDNI list.

 

Bruce Davie

 

Begin forward= ed message:



Date: = July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

Subject: New Version Notification for draft-= davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A= new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfull= y submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filena= me:      =  draft-davie-cdni-framework=
Revision:     &nb= sp; 00
Title:        &n= bsp;    &nbs= p;Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:          &= nbsp; 2011-07-01
= WG ID:      &nbs= p;            &= nbsp; Individual Sub= mission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This documen= t presents a framework for Content Distribution Network
  Inte= rconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework is to provide
&nb= sp; an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe th= e
  relationships among the various components necessary to in= terconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the spec= ification of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address is= sues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acq= uisition of content by one CDN from
  another.  The inten= t of this document is to outline what each
  interface needs t= o accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces
  and mecha= nisms fit together, while leaving their detailed
  specificati= on to other documents.





The IETF Secretariat

 

 

<= /div>= --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D6DMAILR002maill_-- From bdavie@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 10:02:55 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C09221F8B96 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 10:02:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.623 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9JE16HYmlPO2 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 10:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5982721F8B94 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 10:02:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=42216; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310144573; x=1311354173; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=H5X92uOE9UFbZcV0Xsk8zwPLtPpozWU9O7SblL4ZLYY=; b=NXPmpwppZSuSWf/ATpgNiWbfuivA7A5sQBtkqn8fIfgOzQhTtVgq9SrN qt4SBJupCqi1Bk9r3eTcmbBmuzUQlTf6v2uVYDbjD2s5PHHv/xVbXoVso hXWPqcyEjo/ngEjXWYAZT8VIkw3IdbkdMFWqjFnURlbOOqu4cSJFXxdcD U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAHk3F06rRDoJ/2dsb2JhbABTglGBcaIjZHeIe6QSjR2QSIUrgQ0EkkyEfYtj X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,500,1304294400"; d="scan'208,217";a="1117415" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2011 17:02:52 +0000 Received: from [10.32.241.70] ([10.32.241.70]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p68H2orx015205; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 17:02:51 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-267--1022594773 From: Bruce Davie In-Reply-To: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 13:02:50 -0400 Message-Id: References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> To: He Xiaoyan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?utf-8?q?r=09draft-davie-cdni-framework-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:02:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail-267--1022594773 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Jul 8, 2011, at 4:29 AM, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi Bruce, > Some comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft: Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to make one preliminary comment = because I think it will apply to several comments below (and maybe some = future comments by others). We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the = requirements document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by = one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these = pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It = isn't a spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the = requirements for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and = deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces work together.=20 > =20 > 1. Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery node = in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3. > An interface between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added. The reference model is a verbatim copy from the Problem Statement, so = I'll defer any changes to the authors of that doc. But I think this = comment may require adding a bit more detail to the reference model than = is really needed. =20 > =20 > 2. In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with = an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for content delivery = acceleration. The upstream CDN generally would like to keep the CP = relationship exclusive, and won=E2=80=99t expose it to connected CDNs. = What=E2=80=99s your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added = in this framework draft to address this? I can make a proposal on this = if it is thought valuable. In fact, I fully expect that a CSP may contract with multiple uCDNs, = just as today's CSPs contract with multiple CDNs in the absence of CDNI. = It may be worth making the point explicitly. Also, we do expect that there is generally no relationship between a CSP = and dCDN (subject to the comment above), we can certainly make this = point more explicitly.=20 > =20 > 3. Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows: > =C5=B8 It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the = RR of an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, = I think this should be specified. Right, I was assuming that the RRI interface gets bootstrapped somehow = as described in draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement, but we can make = this more explicit. > =20 > =C5=B8 It is also not mentioned the factors based on what the = downstream CDN will select the delivery node for the end user, as this = will affect the parameters conveyed via the request router interface, I = think description on such actions should be specified. I think the dCDN should be able to make autonomous decisions about which = delivery node to choose for the end user. However, you are correct that = if too little information about the user is provided, that will make it = hard for dCDN to do a good job. I would see this discussion as = appropriate for other documents such as Requirements or the RRI spec = itself. Nevertheless, you make a good point that should be captured = somewhere. > =20 > =C5=B8 On the disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more = internal structure e.g. request routing and edge caches is listed. I can = not understand this clearly, could you give more explanation here? As in = the iterative redirection, a delivery node of a downstream CDN can also = =E2=80=98see=E2=80=99 the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. Which = to me means the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers. Iterative redirection does not allow uCDN to see much of the structure = of dCDN, because he just sends the user on to talk to the RR of dCDN. By = contrast, recursive redirection has dCDN providing address of his = delivery nodes back to uCDN. I agree this should be more clear than it = is. > =20 > =C5=B8 The protocols used in queries between the two RRs are not = specified, the existing protocols used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my = colleagues and I also drafted a contribution on recursive = redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request= routing-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some proposal on this = part and merge some text of my draft into this framework draft. No, this should be in the draft the specifies the RRI, I don't want to = start specifying those interfaces in detail inside the framework, as = noted above. > =20 > 4. HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive = redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have any = preference on these methods selection? I think some guideline or = principle on method selection should be specified, such as the method = for a content could be arranged by the CSP to the upCDN and then to the = downCDN? It depends which author you talk to :-) We've tried hard to lay out the = design space in an even handed way at this point (your question suggests = we succeeded). Picking a favorite may not be appropriate, I certainly = don't want to do so at this time. Bruce > =20 > Thanks. > =20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Bruce Davie > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 = 20:45 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 > =20 > If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. > =20 > Bruce Davie > =20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT > To: bsd@cisco.com > Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework > Revision: 00 > Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection > Creation date: 2011-07-01 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 47 >=20 > Abstract: > This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network > Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide > an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the > relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect > CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several > interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, > metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from > another. The intent of this document is to outline what each > interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces > and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed > specification to other documents. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat > =20 --Apple-Mail-267--1022594773 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi = Bruce,

Some = comments/questions on this well worked and valuable = draft:

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to make one preliminary = comment because I think it will apply to several comments below (and = maybe some future comments by others).

We're = really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the requirements = document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by one comment at = the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these pieces fit = together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It isn't a = spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the requirements = for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and deployment = scenarios mostly) how the pieces work = together. 

<= /font>

 

1.       Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery = node in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3.

An interface = between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be = added.

The reference model is a verbatim copy from the Problem = Statement, so I'll defer any changes to the authors of that doc. But I = think this comment may require adding a bit more detail to the reference = model than is really needed.  

<= /font>

 

2. In the context = of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with an upstream CDN, but not = multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration.= The upstream CDN generally would like to = keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=E2=80=99t expose it to connected = CDNs. What=E2=80=99s your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added in this framework = draft to address this?  I can make a proposal on this if it is thought = valuable. =


In fact, I fully expect that a CSP may contract with multiple uCDNs, = just as today's CSPs contract with multiple CDNs in the absence of CDNI. = It may be worth making the point = explicitly.

Also, we do expect that there is = generally no relationship between a CSP and dCDN (subject to the comment = above), we can certainly make this point more = explicitly. 

 

3.       Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows:

=C5=B8          It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of = an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be = specified.



Right, I was assuming that the RRI = interface gets bootstrapped somehow as described = in draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement, but we can make this more = explicit.

 

=C5=B8  It is also = not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the = delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via = the request router interface, I think description on such actions should be = specified.


I think the dCDN should be able to make autonomous = decisions about which delivery node to choose for the end user. However, = you are correct that if too little information about the user is = provided, that will make it hard for dCDN to do a good job. I would see = this discussion as appropriate for other documents such as Requirements = or the RRI spec itself. Nevertheless, you make a good point that should = be captured somewhere.


<= /font>

 

=C5=B8 On the = disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request = routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you = give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node = of a downstream CDN can also =E2=80=98see=E2=80=99 the address of the RR of the Upstream = CDN. Which to me means  the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers.

Iterative redirection does not allow uCDN to see much of the = structure of dCDN, because he just sends the user on to talk to the RR = of dCDN. By contrast, recursive redirection has dCDN providing address = of his delivery nodes back to uCDN. I agree this should be more clear = than it is.

<= /font>

 

=C5=B8 The protocols = used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, the existing protocols = used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and I also drafted a = contribution on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-reques= trouting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some = proposal on this part and merge some text of my draft into this framework = draft.

No, this should be in the draft the specifies  the RRI, = I don't want to start specifying those interfaces in detail inside the = framework, as noted above.


 

4.       HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive = redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have any preference on these = methods selection? I think some guideline or principle on method selection = should be specified, such as the method for a content could be arranged by the CSP = to the upCDN and then to the downCDN? =


It depends which author you talk to :-) = We've tried hard to lay out the design space in an even handed way at = this point (your question suggests we succeeded). Picking a favorite may = not be appropriate, I certainly don't want to do so at this = time.

Bruce





 

Thanks.<= /span>

 

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= : cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Bruce Davie
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<= span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 20:45
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

This draft may = be of interest to the CDNI WG. 

 

If you have = comments, please copy them to the CDNI list.

 

Bruce = Davie

 

Begin forwarded = message:



Date: = July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

Subject:= New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A new version of = I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by = Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision: 00
Title:        &= nbsp;     Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:       2011-07-01
WG ID:         = Individual Submission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distribution = Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework = is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to = describe the
  relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification = of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN = from
  another.  The intent of this document is to outline = what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their = detailed
  specification to other documents.





The IETF Secretariat

 


= --Apple-Mail-267--1022594773-- From flefauch@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 11:01:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEED21F8C27 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:01:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.925 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.673, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7QzAhsxWG71c for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC8D21F8C0D for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=2101; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310148083; x=1311357683; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id: cc:to:mime-version; bh=drXzWZE7Jzhh3CrYS0SM+4YtLW+5i7Xmt+GD2Bziy1g=; b=KukZ2Wl26zh7XW06AOyoyBu3kLXwIqR0gYFM92NBTqvJvzM8Tal6OVrq M4lufpfB3IDTx422LDv5H8/2j0wgq7Hm7PlgmSXGol3X40hvHppSr74zQ Zb4IjVNZMxQQkFFtgjdNg98jobBbBJTqUkxzOKQqy9ctUIPWJCqU8qVEC E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,500,1304294400"; d="scan'208";a="100396795" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com ([144.254.72.81]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2011 18:01:22 +0000 Received: from ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com (ams-flefauch-8714.cisco.com [10.55.161.197]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p68I1LBd014013; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 18:01:22 GMT From: Francois Le Faucheur Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:01:09 +0200 Message-Id: <794B5D26-6005-497B-B6C6-037FA14A7935@cisco.com> To: Niven-Jenkins Ben , Nabil N Bitar , Bruce Davie , Larry Peterson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Definitions for "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request routing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 18:01:24 -0000 Folks, The definitions for the terms of "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request = routing" had been included in the cdni-requirements document until they = move to a more suitable place. Could you guys agree on which document these definitions should migrate = into (problem-statement or framework) and keep a mental note to include = it there in the next rev? Thanks Francois PS: Here is the relevant excerpt from cdni-framework: " This also defined the following additional terms [Editor's Note: these definitions may be better located in another document such as the Problem Statement]: o Recursive CDNI request routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol (or use information cached from earlier similar queries) to find out how the Downstream CDN wants the request to be redirected, which allows the Upstream CDN to factor in the Downstream CDN response when redirecting the user agent. This approach is referred to as "recursive" CDNI request routing. Note that the Downstream CDN may elect to have the request redirected directly to a Surrogate inside the Downstream CDN, to the Request-Routing System of the Downstream CDN, to another CDN, or to any other system that the Downstream CDN sees as fit for handling the redirected request. o Iterative CDNI Request Routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can base its redirection purely on a local decision (and without attempting to take into account how the Downstream CDN may in turn redirect the user agent). In that case, the Upstream CDN redirects the request to the request routing system in the Downstream CDN, which in turn will decide how to redirect that request: this approach is referred to as "iterative" CDNI request routing. " Francois= From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com Fri Jul 8 13:44:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D9D21F8B30 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 13:44:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -108.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-108.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xXASfICf4ahV for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 13:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com (PacdcIMO01.cable.comcast.com [24.40.8.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F2D321F8B4A for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 13:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by pacdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503620.133542835; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:43:15 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:43:13 -0400 From: "Woundy, Richard" To: Kevin J Ma , He Xiaoyan , 'Bruce Davie' Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0NETmldIOetlOWkjTogIE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IJ?= =?utf-8?Q?draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt?= Thread-Index: Acw7EWC3f+/+XThmTleF+2shcVeqjwCJu3QQABGUAzAACxTNgA== Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 20:43:12 +0000 Message-ID: <1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135AB7B1@PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com> References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24@MAILR002.mail.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US 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YXJpYXQ8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFs Ij48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4N CjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135AB7B1PACDCEXMB05cabl_-- From kleung@cisco.com Fri Jul 8 15:05:26 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D469E8009 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:05:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TSBUSeHUfK1H for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:05:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 15:05:22 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F54E577@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02.txt Thread-Index: Acw9l0bCP5q4tovHR9ia4eVRddJ6/AAIVy2A From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jul 2011 22:05:23.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[22DC8DC0:01CC3DBB] Subject: [CDNi] FW: I-D Action: draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 22:05:26 -0000 Here's the new version of the requirements draft. The changes from version -01 to -02 are listed at http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-0= 2 .txt. Kent -----Original Message----- From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 10:48 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) Requirements Author(s) : Kent Leung Yiu Lee Francois Le Faucheur Mahesh Viveganandhan Grant Watson Filename : draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2011-07-08 Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) are frequently used for large-scale content delivery. As a result, existing CDN providers are scaling up their infrastructure and many Network Service Providers (NSPs) are deploying their own CDNs. There is a requirement for interconnecting standalone CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs) to end users. The Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) working group has been chartered to develop an interoperable and scalable solution for such CDN interconnection. The goal of the present document is to outline the requirements for the solution and interfaces to be specified by the CDNI working group. Requirements Language The key words "Must", "Should" and "May" in this document are to be interpreted in the following way: o "Must" indicates requirements that are to be supported by the CDNI protocols in the stated scope (aka "within initial CDNI scope" or "beyond initial scope"). A requirement is stated as a "Must" when it is established by that it can be met without compromising the targeted schedule for WG deliverables, or when it is established that specifying a solution without meeting this requirement would not make sense and would justify re-adjusting the WG schedule, or both. o "Should" indicates requirements that are to be supported by the CDNI protocols in the stated scope (aka "within initial CDNI scope" or "beyond initial scope") unless the WG realizes at a later stage that attempting to meet this requirement would compromise the overall WG schedule (for example it would involve complexities that would result in significantly delaying the deliverables). o "May" indicates requirements that are to be supported by the CDNI protocols in the stated scope (aka "within initial CDNI scope" or "beyond initial scope") provided that dedicating WG resources to this work does not prevent addressing "Should" and "Must" requirements and that attempting to meet this requirement would not compromise the overall WG schedule. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-0 2.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 .txt _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From hexiaoyan@huawei.com Sun Jul 10 23:55:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C26F21F89F2 for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 23:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.181 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q2syQmPCUXIM for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 23:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA1A21F89CC for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2011 23:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO500JJ9PX098@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:55:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LO5005K5PX042@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:55:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.113.87]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LO500KCFPWZZF@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:55:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:55:46 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D24@MAILR002.mail.lan> To: 'Kevin J Ma' , 'Bruce Davie' , cdni@ietf.org, Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com Message-id: <024701cc3f97$9003ee10$5771900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_wTypZbXvJqlxia4uki7vUg)" Thread-index: Acw7EWC3f+/+XThmTleF+2shcVeqjwCJu3QQABGUAzAAhVOx4A== Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmlj?= =?gb2312?b?YXRpb24gZm9yCWRyYWZ0LWRhdmllLWNkbmktZnJhbWV3b3JrLTAw?= =?gb2312?b?LnR4dA==?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:55:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_wTypZbXvJqlxia4uki7vUg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kevin, Richard at all, =20 Apologize for my ambiguously statement in last email. =20 For the words=A1=B1 multiple CDNs=A1=B1, it means multiple dCDNs = involved in delivering a content in the context of CDNi which contrast to the = specific uCDN. I did not mean ruling out CPs having business relationships with = multiple CDNs. What I wanted to express is that under the circumstance of CDNI, = for a delivery chain of a content, there should no relationship between a CP = and the involved dCDNs, and furthermore, the upstream CDN generally would = like to keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=A1=AFt expose it to its = connected dCDNs. =20 Of course, the CP may have business relationships with multiple CDNs, = they all are interpreted as uCDNs and hence multiple delivery chains may be involved. This is not the case=20 Relative to the question I asked. =20 Hope this helps. Thanks.=20 =20 Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C28=C8=D5 23:24 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan; 'Bruce Davie'; cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [CDNi] =B4=F0=B8=B4: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 Hi Xiaoyan, =20 I had a quick comment your second question, with respect to multiple = CDNs; I wanted to clarify what was meant by "but not multiple CDNs"? =20 > 2. In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with = an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration. =20 I agree that CPs may not have business relationships with all of the = CDNs=20 involved in delivering their content (i.e., they may contract with = uCDNs, but not with all dCDNs), but I do not think that we should rule out CPs having business relationships with multiple CDNs (e.g., multiple uCDNs = and some dCDNs, which may also be uCDNs). I interpreted Figure 11 in = Section 5 to support this view? This does bring up a separate question of how = CDNs optimize delivery of content which is spread across multiple uCDNs, but that is probably beyond the initial scope of CDNI, as Bruce alludes to? =20 thanx! =20 -- Kevin J. Ma =20 =20 From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = He Xiaoyan Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:29 AM To: 'Bruce Davie'; cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =B4=F0=B8=B4: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 Hi Bruce, Some comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft: =20 1. Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery node in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3. An interface between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added. =20 2. In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with = an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration. = The upstream CDN generally would like to keep the CP relationship exclusive, = and won=A1=AFt expose it to connected CDNs. What=A1=AFs your view on this, = could there a new paragraph be added in this framework draft to address this? I can = make a proposal on this if it is thought valuable.=20 =20 3. Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several comments = as follows: * It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be specified. =20 * It is also not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via the request router interface, I think = description on such actions should be specified. =20 * On the disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node of a downstream CDN can also = =A1=AEsee=A1=AF the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. Which to me means the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its peers. =20 * The protocols used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, = the existing protocols used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and = I also drafted a contribution on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-reques= tro uting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some proposal on this = part and merge some text of my draft into this framework draft. =20 4. HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive redirection = are all mentioned in this document, do you have any preference on these = methods selection? I think some guideline or principle on method selection = should be specified, such as the method for a content could be arranged by the CSP = to the upCDN and then to the downCDN?=20 =20 Thanks. =20 Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He _____ =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Bruce Davie =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 20:45 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 =20 If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. =20 Bruce Davie =20 Begin forwarded message: =20 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT To: bsd@cisco.com Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework Revision: 00 Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection Creation date: 2011-07-01 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 47 Abstract: This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from another. The intent of this document is to outline what each interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed specification to other documents. The IETF Secretariat =20 --Boundary_(ID_wTypZbXvJqlxia4uki7vUg) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kevin, Richard = at all,

 <= /span>

Apologize for my ambiguously statement in last email.

 <= /span>

For the = words=A1=B1 multiple CDNs=A1=B1, it means multiple dCDNs involved in delivering a content in the context = of CDNi which contrast to the specific uCDN.

I did not mean = ruling out CPs having business relationships with multiple CDNs. What I wanted to = express is that under the circumstance of CDNI, for a delivery chain of a content, = there should no relationship between a CP and the involved dCDNs, and furthermore, = the upstream CDN generally would like to = keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=A1=AFt expose it to its connected = dCDNs.   

Of course, the CP = may have business relationships with multiple CDNs, they all are interpreted as = uCDNs and hence multiple delivery chains may be involved. This is not the case =

Relative to the = question I asked.

 <= /span>

Hope this = helps.

Thanks. =

 <= /span>

Best = Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C28=C8=D5 = 23:24
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan; 'Bruce Davie'; cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: [CDNi] = =B4=F0=B8=B4: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

Hi = Xiaoyan,

 

I had a quick = comment your second question, with respect to multiple = CDNs;

I wanted to clarify = what was meant by "but not multiple CDNs"?

 

> = 2. In the context of CDNi, a content = provider (CP) contracts only with an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for = content delivery acceleration.

 

I agree that CPs = may not have business relationships with all of the CDNs =

involved in = delivering their content (i.e., they may contract with = uCDNs,

but not with all = dCDNs), but I do not think that we should rule out CPs

having business relationships with multiple CDNs (e.g., multiple uCDNs = and

some dCDNs, which = may also be uCDNs).  I interpreted Figure 11 in Section 5

to support this = view?  This does bring up a separate question of how = CDNs

optimize delivery = of content which is spread across multiple uCDNs, but

that is probably = beyond the initial scope of CDNI, as Bruce alludes to?

 

thanx!

 

--  Kevin J. = Ma

 

 

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of He Xiaoyan
Sent: Friday, July 08, = 2011 4:29 AM
To: 'Bruce Davie'; = cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] = =B4=F0=B8=B4<= font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

Hi = Bruce,

Some = comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft:

 <= /span>

1.    Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery = node in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3.

An interface = between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added.

 <= /span>

2. In the context = of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with an upstream CDN, but not = multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration. = The upstream CDN generally would like to = keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=A1=AFt expose it to connected CDNs. = What=A1=AFs your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added in this framework draft to address this?  I can make a proposal on this if it is thought = valuable.

 <= /span>

3.    Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows:

Ÿ      It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of = an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be specified.

 

Ÿ  It is also = not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the = delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via = the request router interface, I think description on such actions should be specified.

 <= /span>

Ÿ On the = disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request = routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you = give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node = of a downstream CDN can also =A1=AEsee=A1=AF the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. = Which to me means  the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers.

 

Ÿ The protocols = used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, the existing protocols = used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and I also drafted a contribution = on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-requ= estrouting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some = proposal on this part and merge some text of my draft into this framework = draft.

 <= /span>

4.    HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive = redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have any preference on these = methods selection? I think some guideline or principle on method selection = should be specified, such as the method for a content could be arranged by the CSP = to the upCDN and then to the downCDN?

 <= /span>

Thanks.=

 <= /span>

Best = Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA= =B1=ED Bruce Davie
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C25=C8=D5 = 20:45
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

This draft may be = of interest to the CDNI WG. 

 

If you have comments, please copy them to the = CDNI list.

 

Bruce Davie

 

Begin forwarded = message:

 

Date: = July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

Subject= : New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by = Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       = draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision: 00
Title:        &n= bsp;     Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:       = 2011-07-01
WG ID:         Individual Submission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distribution = Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework = is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to = describe the
  relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification = of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN = from
  another.  The intent of this document is to outline = what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their = detailed
  specification to other documents.





The IETF Secretariat

 

--Boundary_(ID_wTypZbXvJqlxia4uki7vUg)-- From lpeterson@verivue.com Wed Jul 13 09:55:04 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B89211E80D9 for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:55:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQx86sSTGvba for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod8og106.obsmtp.com (exprod8og106.obsmtp.com [64.18.3.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2538911E80CE for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vvexch.verivue.com ([63.64.170.198]) (using TLSv1) by exprod8ob106.postini.com ([64.18.7.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTh3N48rDnCEam/q+rIDte/mgwwKy/9dv@postini.com; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:55:03 PDT Received: from vvexch.verivue.com ([10.10.6.20]) by vvexch.verivue.com ([10.10.6.20]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:54:58 -0400 From: "Peterson, Larry" To: Kevin J Ma Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:54:57 -0400 Thread-Topic: new Internet Draft Thread-Index: AcxBfZjfhAQ3RuquTyqaWVI4ZStcOQ== Message-ID: References: <73B09441-5D82-4CA6-B665-1F7072D654BF@verivue.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAE@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAE@MAILR002.mail.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] new Internet Draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:55:04 -0000 Thanks for the comments. I apologize for letting this get stuck in my inbox= ... On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:30 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: > Hi Larry, >=20 > I had a couple of comments/questions on the draft: >=20 > In sections 5.x.1, i just wanted to clarify if the exchange of IP > prefixes is just an example of a method for determining geo-footprint, > or is there a more fundamental requirement for IP prefix information? Right. It's an example. >=20 > In section 6.4, with respect to bypassing metadata distribution, > checking availability windows on an initial request may not work > well for certain types of content, e.g., HLS with relative uris and > and endlist tag, where the manifest may point at multiple hours of > content? As for proxying metadata requests, could that introduce > scalability issues for the uCDN? I'm sure interesting discussion with ensue on this issue, but my main point is that the functional distinction between the metadata and control interfaces is not clear. Instead, the distinction seems to be more about an engineering choice -- it's easier to tell me once, up-front, how to=20 behave rather than control my behavior at run-time. >=20 > thanx! >=20 > -- Kevin J. Ma >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Peterson, Larry >> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:33 PM >> To: cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: [CDNi] new Internet Draft >>=20 >> Dear all, >>=20 >> We have posted a new I-D, available at >>=20 >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-peterson-cdni-strawman-00 >>=20 >> It presents a strawman for CDN interconnection, >> and is meant to spur discussion. >>=20 >> Looking forward to your feedback. >>=20 >> Larry >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From bdavie@cisco.com Thu Jul 14 12:50:59 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1951E11E809D for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.744, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.884, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_NONELEMENT_30_40=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ml9qEhkYzQa for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB73411E8070 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:50:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=64977; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1310673043; x=1311882643; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=TxYxJAqICCPlSljPIRsowuptkV21k+lCtiVDk3hNwVY=; b=A+RJeLUtWIC1kPeT5lkouscK8L70uwzf5kZ4zMCMKCDlBEw+dRY0jZA4 tV80DkgWzqgaFcQDj+bBoWmzqw/7goxv8mRpQY7+llo5HvDibitGQ2RPh CS2LHMEpq3mfORav+Tf8Vc2tEMJUFPa8MSkctJHKgjkNaGs4KCt0lXBIV E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAMZHH06rRDoI/2dsb2JhbABUglOBc6Ita3eIeqN7jRyQeoUrMF8EkmSFAItt X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.65,531,1304294400"; d="scan'208,217";a="3052666" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Jul 2011 19:50:42 +0000 Received: from [10.32.241.70] ([10.32.241.70]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6EJoeLi001217; Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:50:41 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-340--494124759 From: Bruce Davie In-Reply-To: <025301cc3fa0$cbf833a0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 15:50:40 -0400 Message-Id: References: <025301cc3fa0$cbf833a0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> To: He Xiaoyan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmlj?= =?utf-8?q?ation_for=09draft-davie-cdni-framework-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:50:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail-340--494124759 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I suppose the question of how much detail to put in this draft is a bit = of a judgement call. I certainly didn't want to include details of = protocols that are not yet specified at all and which will get full = drafts dedicated to them in the near future (like RRI).=20 It could possibly be argued that we've included a bit too much detail on = the redirection methods using DNS and HTTP, but it seemed worthwhile at = this stage to document the different redirection procedures in some = detail, as they are not currently documented anywhere else (except, in = some cases, in draft-peterson-cdni-strawman). It might make sense for = those details to move somewhere else eventually, as long as the overall = picture can be grasped by someone reading the Framework.=20 Bruce On Jul 11, 2011, at 4:01 AM, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the = requirements document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by = one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these = pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It = isn't a spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the = requirements for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and = deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces work together.=20 > > No, this should be in the draft the specifies the RRI, I don't want = to start specifying those interfaces in detail inside the framework, as = noted above. > =20 > I can understand details of a CDNI interface should be defined in the = dedicated specs, but could you clarify more on the criteria of this = draft on determining which protocols/messages involved in CDNI = procedures should be enumerated but which should not be. As in the = examples of this doc, some HTTP and DNS messages even with the URL and = special domain names have been explicitly enumerated, but some as you = mentioned should be leaved to the dedicated interfaces specs. > Thanks. =20 > =20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 = 1:03 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: He Xiaoyan > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: cdni@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [CDNi] New Version = Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Jul 8, 2011, at 4:29 AM, He Xiaoyan wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Bruce, > Some comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft: > =20 > Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to make one preliminary comment = because I think it will apply to several comments below (and maybe some = future comments by others). > =20 > We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the = requirements document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by = one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these = pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It = isn't a spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the = requirements for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and = deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces work together.=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > 1. Regarding the reference model of figure 1, as a delivery node = in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream CDN such as step 8 = showed in figure 3. > An interface between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added. > =20 > The reference model is a verbatim copy from the Problem Statement, so = I'll defer any changes to the authors of that doc. But I think this = comment may require adding a bit more detail to the reference model than = is really needed. =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > 2. In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with = an upstream CDN, but not multiple CDNs for content delivery = acceleration. The upstream CDN generally would like to keep the CP = relationship exclusive, and won=E2=80=99t expose it to connected CDNs. = What=E2=80=99s your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added = in this framework draft to address this? I can make a proposal on this = if it is thought valuable. > =20 > In fact, I fully expect that a CSP may contract with multiple uCDNs, = just as today's CSPs contract with multiple CDNs in the absence of CDNI. = It may be worth making the point explicitly. > =20 > Also, we do expect that there is generally no relationship between a = CSP and dCDN (subject to the comment above), we can certainly make this = point more explicitly.=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > 3. Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several = comments as follows: > =C5=B8 It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR = of an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I = think this should be specified. > =20 > =20 > Right, I was assuming that the RRI interface gets bootstrapped somehow = as described in draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement, but we can make = this more explicit. >=20 >=20 > =20 > =C5=B8 It is also not mentioned the factors based on what the = downstream CDN will select the delivery node for the end user, as this = will affect the parameters conveyed via the request router interface, I = think description on such actions should be specified. > =20 > I think the dCDN should be able to make autonomous decisions about = which delivery node to choose for the end user. However, you are correct = that if too little information about the user is provided, that will = make it hard for dCDN to do a good job. I would see this discussion as = appropriate for other documents such as Requirements or the RRI spec = itself. Nevertheless, you make a good point that should be captured = somewhere. > =20 > =20 >> =20 >> =C5=B8 On the disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more = internal structure e.g. request routing and edge caches is listed. I can = not understand this clearly, could you give more explanation here? As in = the iterative redirection, a delivery node of a downstream CDN can also = =E2=80=98see=E2=80=99 the address of the RR of the Upstream CDN. Which = to me means the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers. > =20 > Iterative redirection does not allow uCDN to see much of the structure = of dCDN, because he just sends the user on to talk to the RR of dCDN. By = contrast, recursive redirection has dCDN providing address of his = delivery nodes back to uCDN. I agree this should be more clear than it = is. >=20 >=20 > =20 > =C5=B8 The protocols used in queries between the two RRs are not = specified, the existing protocols used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my = colleagues and I also drafted a contribution on recursive = redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request= routing-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some proposal on this = part and merge some text of my draft into this framework draft. > =20 > No, this should be in the draft the specifies the RRI, I don't want = to start specifying those interfaces in detail inside the framework, as = noted above. > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > 4. HTTP and DNS based iterative redirection, Recursive = redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have any = preference on these methods selection? I think some guideline or = principle on method selection should be specified, such as the method = for a content could be arranged by the CSP to the upCDN and then to the = downCDN? > =20 > =20 > It depends which author you talk to :-) We've tried hard to lay out = the design space in an even handed way at this point (your question = suggests we succeeded). Picking a favorite may not be appropriate, I = certainly don't want to do so at this time. > =20 > Bruce > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > Thanks. > =20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Bruce Davie > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 = 20:45 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 > =20 > If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. > =20 > Bruce Davie > =20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT > To: bsd@cisco.com > Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt > =20 > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been = successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework > Revision: 00 > Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection > Creation date: 2011-07-01 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 47 >=20 > Abstract: > This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network > Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide > an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the > relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect > CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several > interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, > metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from > another. The intent of this document is to outline what each > interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces > and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed > specification to other documents. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat > =20 > =20 --Apple-Mail-340--494124759 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi = Bruce,

><= font face=3D"=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the requirements document or one of the = interface specs. I was inspired by one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It isn't a spec for any particular interface, it = doesn't even set the requirements for any interface. It tries to show (by = examples and deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces work = together. 

> = No, this should be in the draft the specifies  the RRI, I don't want to start specifying those = interfaces in detail inside the framework, as noted = above.

 

I can understand = details of a CDNI interface should be defined in the dedicated specs, but could = you clarify more on the criteria of this draft on determining which = protocols/messages involved in CDNI procedures should be enumerated but which should not be. =  As in the examples of this doc, some HTTP and DNS messages even with the URL = and special domain names have been explicitly enumerated, but some as you mentioned = should be leaved to the dedicated interfaces = specs.

Thanks. =  

 

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93= ">

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= : Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<= span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 1:03
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: He Xiaoyan
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: cdni@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: = =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D= : [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

 

On Jul 8, 2011, = at 4:29 AM, He Xiaoyan wrote:



Hi = Bruce,

Some = comments/questions on this well worked and valuable draft:

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to = make one preliminary comment because I think it will apply to several comments below (and = maybe some future comments by others).

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">We're really trying hard not to turn = this doc into either the requirements document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by = one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these = pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It isn't = a spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the requirements = for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and deployment scenarios = mostly) how the pieces work together. 

=

 

1.      = Regarding the reference model of = figure 1, as a delivery node in a downstream CDN may contact the RR of an Upstream = CDN such as step 8 showed in figure 3.

An interface = between these two blocks in the figure 1 should be added.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">The reference model is a verbatim copy = from the Problem Statement, so I'll defer any changes to the authors of that doc. But I = think this comment may require adding a bit more detail to the reference model = than is really needed.  

=

 =

2. = In the context of CDNi, a content provider (CP) contracts only with an upstream CDN, but not = multiple CDNs for content delivery acceleration.= The upstream CDN generally would like to = keep the CP relationship exclusive, and won=E2=80=99t expose it to connected = CDNs. What=E2=80=99s your view on this, could there a new paragraph be added in this framework = draft to address this?  I can make a proposal on this if it is thought = valuable.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

In fact, I fully expect that a CSP may = contract with multiple uCDNs, just as today's CSPs contract with multiple CDNs in the absence = of CDNI. It may be worth making the point = explicitly.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">Also, we do expect that there is = generally no relationship between a CSP and dCDN (subject to the comment above), we can certainly = make this point more explicitly. 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">

 

3.      = Regarding the example on recursive redirection, several comments as = follows:

=C5=B8         It is not mentioned in step2 under figure 4, how the RR of = an upstream CDN finds the address of the RR of its downstream CDN, I think = this should be specified.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">Right, I was assuming that the RRI = interface gets bootstrapped somehow as described in draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement, but = we can make this more explicit.

=

 

=C5=B8  It is also = not mentioned the factors based on what the downstream CDN will select the = delivery node for the end user, as this will affect the parameters conveyed via = the request router interface, I think description on such actions should be specified.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">I think the dCDN should be able to make = autonomous decisions about which delivery node to choose for the end user. However, you are = correct that if too little information about the user is provided, that will = make it hard for dCDN to do a good job. I would see this discussion as = appropriate for other documents such as Requirements or the RRI spec itself. = Nevertheless, you make a good point that should be captured = somewhere.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

 

=C5=B8 On the = disadvantages of recursive redirection, exposing more internal structure e.g. request = routing and edge caches is listed. I can not understand this clearly, could you = give more explanation here? As in the iterative redirection, a delivery node = of a downstream CDN can also =E2=80=98see=E2=80=99 the address of the RR of = the Upstream CDN. Which to me means  the edge caches and RR of each CDN also expose to its = peers.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

Iterative redirection does not allow = uCDN to see much of the structure of dCDN, because he just sends the user on to talk to the RR = of dCDN. By contrast, recursive redirection has dCDN providing address of his = delivery nodes back to uCDN. I agree this should be more clear than it = is.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">

 

=C5=B8 The protocols = used in queries between the two RRs are not specified, the existing protocols = used could be HTTP and DNS, some of my colleagues and I also drafted a = contribution on recursive redirection(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-reques= trouting-01.txt), if it is ok for you, I can make some = proposal on this part and merge some text of my draft into this framework = draft.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">No, this should be in the draft the = specifies  the RRI, I don't want to start specifying those interfaces in detail inside the = framework, as noted above.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

=

 

4.      = HTTP and DNS based iterative = redirection, Recursive redirection are all mentioned in this document, do you have = any preference on these methods selection? I think some guideline or = principle on method selection should be specified, such as the method for a content = could be arranged by the CSP to the upCDN and then to the downCDN? =

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">It depends which author you talk to :-) = We've tried hard to lay out the design space in an even handed way at this point (your question suggests we succeeded). Picking a favorite may not be appropriate, I = certainly don't want to do so at this time.

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">Bruce

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93"> 

=

 

Thanks.

 =

Best = Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) = He

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= : cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Bruce Davie
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<= span lang=3D"EN-US">: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5 = 20:45
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [CDNi] New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

Thi= s draft may be of interest to the CDNI = WG. 

 

If you have = comments, please copy them to the CDNI list.

 

Bruce = Davie

 

Begin forwarded = message:




Date: = July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

Subject:= New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A new version of = I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by = Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       = draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision: 00
Title:        &= nbsp;     Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:       = 2011-07-01
WG ID:         Individual Submission
Number of pages: 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distribution = Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework = is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to = describe the
  relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification = of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN = from
  another.  The intent of this document is to outline = what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these = interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their = detailed
  specification to other documents.





The IETF Secretariat

 

 


= --Apple-Mail-340--494124759-- From ramani.pandurangan@xo.com Tue Jul 19 14:15:59 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA19121F8B2B for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:15:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOdjUc5uNmYm for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TX2EHSOBE007.bigfish.com (tx2ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF3E21F8B2A for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail53-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.244) by TX2EHSOBE007.bigfish.com (10.9.40.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:57 +0000 Received: from mail53-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail53-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CE5C5017F for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:57 +0000 (UTC) X-SpamScore: 0 X-BigFish: VS0(zzc85fh1444Mzz1202hzz8275bh8275dhz2dh668h839h711m61h) X-Spam-TCS-SCL: 0:0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:207.88.96.56; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPVD:NLI; H:TXDALLGWOUT02.dal.dc.xo.com; RD:txdallgwout02.dal.dc.xo.com; EFVD:NLI Received: from mail53-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail53-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1311110157582274_29857; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.250]) by mail53-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A22F169004F for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TXDALLGWOUT02.dal.dc.xo.com (207.88.96.56) by TX2EHSMHS012.bigfish.com (10.9.99.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:57 +0000 CC: Received: from VAHERNHC10.corp.inthosts.net ([10.38.20.47]) by TXDALLGWOUT02.dal.dc.xo.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7600.16601); Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:15:07 -0500 Received: from VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net ([fe80::b097:be64:895c:7eee]) by VAHERNHC10.corp.inthosts.net ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:15:56 -0400 From: "Pandurangan, Ramani" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7600.16543 Thread-Topic: IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) thread-index: AcxGWQv+lsNty/1YTjCTLn77vtw1eA== Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:55 +0000 Message-ID: <06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AAB@VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Originating-IP: [10.38.7.120] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AABVAHERNEXCH10cor_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jul 2011 21:15:07.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF879BD0:01CC4658] X-OriginatorOrg: xo.com Subject: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:15:59 -0000 --_000_06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AABVAHERNEXCH10cor_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would it be possible to attend the above meeting remotely ? Thanks Ramani 703-547-2463 (D) 703-225-9548 (M) --_000_06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AABVAHERNEXCH10cor_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

&nb= sp;

Would it= be possible to attend the above  meeting remotely ?

&nb= sp;

&nb= sp;

Thanks

 

Ramani

703-547-2463 (D)<= /o:p>

703-225-9548 (M)

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 

--_000_06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AABVAHERNEXCH10cor_-- From bdavie@cisco.com Tue Jul 19 14:56:21 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4F421F8587 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:56:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.738, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ePgmduXyNWZA for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E7621F856B for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:56:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=4924; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311112580; x=1312322180; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=RJfJkvG+kAc94o06bSoyVmyaLlFSiU8P5v5BlfFhPq0=; b=GAhDyONKtxzipSwPDugMUXwB7JiHUCPOtY1tVI80ah5/HCzKRQ+zG1Rs u1HZ4L8Oa2ftRPs1bPrfnE0x+ZodBzpoQyxVGSBj3EqDuO4e8hbiYbbwB kvhRM4SIS+6pdoJXpP/jwitoi0VPD0QGI1DpM9851B2qYSWmdbJGcHAm/ 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAE39JU6rRDoJ/2dsb2JhbABOBoJTpQF3iHylWp5Egz2CfwSSaIUEi3I X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,230,1309737600"; d="scan'208,217";a="4508603" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Jul 2011 21:56:02 +0000 Received: from [10.32.241.77] ([10.32.241.77]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6JLu0gd000977; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:56:01 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-390--54604897 From: Bruce Davie In-Reply-To: <06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AAB@VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:56:00 -0400 Message-Id: <05C94035-6359-46C1-AC01-497807966181@cisco.com> References: <06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AAB@VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net> To: "Pandurangan, Ramani" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 21:56:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-390--54604897 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe your answer is here: http://www.ietf.org/meeting/81/remote-participation.html Bruce On Jul 19, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Pandurangan, Ramani wrote: > > Would it be possible to attend the above meeting remotely ? > > > Thanks > > Ramani > 703-547-2463 (D) > 703-225-9548 (M) > > > > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni --Apple-Mail-390--54604897 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I believe your answer is = here:


<= div>Bruce

On Jul 19, 2011, at 5:15 PM, = Pandurangan, Ramani wrote:

 
Would it be possible to = attend the above  meeting remotely ?
 
Thanks
 
Ramani
703-547-2463 (D)
703-225-9548 (M)
To: "Pandurangan, Ramani" , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) Thread-Index: AcxGWQv+lsNty/1YTjCTLn77vtw1eAABqzPA Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:05:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D3D4C@PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com> References: <06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AAB@VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net> In-Reply-To: <06250CD4B48D4343808E29C0AF0258E502583AAB@VAHERNEXCH10.corp.inthosts.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.191.223.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D3D4CPACDCEXMB05cabl_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 22:05:19 -0000 --_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D3D4CPACDCEXMB05cabl_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Look for CDNI on this agenda page: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/81/. There= are links for the streaming audio and the jabber session. Also check out http://www.ietf.org/meeting/81/remote-participation.html. -- Rich From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pan= durangan, Ramani Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:16 PM To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City , July= 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) Would it be possible to attend the above meeting remotely ? Thanks Ramani 703-547-2463 (D) 703-225-9548 (M) --_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D3D4CPACDCEXMB05cabl_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Look for CDNI on this = agenda page:  http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/8= 1/. There are links for the streaming audio and the jabber session.

 

Also check out http://www.ietf.org/meeting/81/remote-participation.html.

 

-- Rich

 

From: cdni-bou= nces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pandurangan, Ramani
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 5:16 PM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] IETF- 81 - CDNI Working Group Meeting in Quebec City= , July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B)

 

&nb= sp;

Would it= be possible to attend the above  meeting remotely ?

&nb= sp;

&nb= sp;

Thanks

 

Ramani

703-547-2463 (D)

703-225-9548 (M)

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 

--_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D3D4CPACDCEXMB05cabl_-- From zhouzp@huawei.com Thu Jul 21 02:40:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837DF21F8B31 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.415 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.415 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.132, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_53=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_73=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uirjn4QjCnMl for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F23A21F8B26 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOO00FH2G4YM5@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:38:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOO00BO2G4YDT@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:38:58 +0800 (CST) Received: from z54906a ([10.138.73.38]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LOO00IMKG4UWG@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:38:58 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:38:54 +0800 From: zhouzhipeng To: cdni@ietf.org Message-id: <003901cc478a$01f90e20$05eb2a60$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yRQqZ+t1M8SASdh7uBj7Ag)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcxHidiVLGo52RqWRkah9akf0rrG0Q== Subject: [CDNi] 01 version of zhou-cndi-use-case. X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:40:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_yRQqZ+t1M8SASdh7uBj7Ag) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_OEcC1l17agbN+n8wZbjRww)" --Boundary_(ID_OEcC1l17agbN+n8wZbjRww) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear all, I have taken a little modification( adding a new section 5.4) on my document. And I would invite my colleague Mr. Serge Manning taking the presentation on behalf of myself in next week meeting and I have sent the slides to Serge. For any question I may respond via email. Wish U all a happy journey and hope to see U next time. Thanks. Zhipeng ----------------------------------------------------- Huawei Carrier Software Business Unit. No.101,Software Avenue,Yuhuatai District,Nanjing, P.R.of China Zipcode:210012 E-Mail: zhouzp@huawei.com Phone:(+86) 25-56620690 Fax:(+86) 25-56624081 Mobile:(+86) 13404162849 ----------------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_OEcC1l17agbN+n8wZbjRww) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear all,

I have taken a little modification( adding a new section 5.4) on my document.

And I would invite my colleague Mr. Serge Manning taking the presentation on behalf of myself in next week meeting and I have sent the slides to Serge.

For any question I may respond via email.

Wish U all a happy journey and hope to see U next time.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

 

< lass=MsoNormal> 

-----------------------------------------------------

Huawei Carrier Software Business Unit.

No.101,Software Avenue,Yuhuatai District,Nanjing, P.R.of China
Zipcode:210012
E-Mail: zhouzp@huawei.com
Phone:(+86) 25-56620690

Fax:(+86) 25-56624081

Mobile:(+86) 13404162849
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--Boundary_(ID_OEcC1l17agbN+n8wZbjRww)-- --Boundary_(ID_yRQqZ+t1M8SASdh7uBj7Ag) Content-type: text/plain; name=draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-01.txt Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-01.txt IETF cdni ZP.Zhou Internet-Draft Huawei Technologies, Inc. Intended status: Informational Jul 20, 2011 Expires: January 21, 2012 CDNI use case draft-zhou-cdni-use-case-01 Abstract Industry needs the CDN interconnection to provide the CDN service that may cover a wider geographical area and a better service quality. In the real pragmatic operation, the relationship between two CDNs should concern many factors(for instance, CDN or CP may select the downstream CDN based on some principals or conditions or service authorizations), hence the CDN interconnection is defacto a sort of constrained interconnection. This document will give the use cases to indicate the models of how the CDN interconnection may be used and the associated examples for the use cases will be listed subsequently. Status of this Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." This Internet-Draft will expire on January 21, 2012. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2011 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 1] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Architecture for CDN-I Service . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4. Operating Requirements on CDN Interconnection . . . . . . . . 3 5. Use Cases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5.1. CDN authorization . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5.2. Constraint for Content . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5.3. Content Adaptation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5.4. Content Priority . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6. Application Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 9. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 10. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 2] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 1. Introduction [I- D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] has provided some basic use cases for CDN Interconnection. While it has not talked about how CDN-A may interconnect CDN-B as its downstream CDN(e.g. How the downstream CDN is selected; what operation rule(business rule) should be taken into account on service of CDN interconnection). This draft gives some use cases concerning the operation of multiple CDN federation and as a result some examples are provides. 2. Terminology Roughly, this document may refer the terminology defined in section 1.1 of [I-D.jenkins-cdni-problem-statement] and [I-D.bertrand-cdni- use-cases]. 3. Architecture for CDN-I Service Following, a general service architecture of CDN interconnection is listed as Figure 1: +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ | CSP |-------| CDN-A |------| CDN-B |------| UE | +-------+ | +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ | \______________/ | | / \ | | +-------+ +-------+ | |___| CDN-C |______| CDN-D |__________| +-------+ +-------+ Figure 1. Typical Architecture for CDN interconnection This is just a typical architecture of CDN interconnection. The CSP may connect multiple CDNs and a upstream CDN may connect multiple downstream CDNs(such as CDN-A may connect either CDN-B or CDN-D; similarly to CDN-C) This figure is used for the following discussion of use cases while in reality it may be possible that the CSP only select one delegate CDN or a upstream CDN may only have one downstream CDN. 4. Operating Requirements on CDN Interconnection In the real operation, some basic requirements of CDN-I service based ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 3] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 on service operating should be abided, including: Authorization area for CDN provider: the CDN provider may only provide CDN service in a specific area, such as CDN-A may only serve in Beijing and CDN-B may only serve in Shanghai. Such authorization may be determined by CSP or by upstream CDN for the downstream CDN. And such authorization is because of the business model(for example to protect the business of authorized CDN service provider). Therefore the associated policy should be supported in the CDN interconnection. Constraint of service by content: the access area or access period of specific content may be constrained in content service. For example the movie in a Chinese video website may only be accessed by the terminals located in China mainland and if being overseas the request for the movie service will be rejected. The rule in this use case comes from the content rights operation and should be conducted by the CDN service provider. Content adaptation: the format of content service may be converted according to the terminal's capability or consumer's application. For example, convert multicast (or unicast) RTP streams to HTTP streaming and then deliver the adaptive stream to terminals( refer to MCD CDN-I use case and requirement). As for implementation of CDN service, it is optimum maintaining and delivering one format of content within CDN system(including CDN to CDN) while providing the adaptive streaming service on the interface between CDN and terminals. The content adaptation may be deployed on a node of the CDN or CDN-I system as a functionality. Content priority: towards the content service, one way to provide the differ-service of content delivery is to set priority for the content. Such priority mechanism may be supported and extended between CDNs. The downstream CDN may inherit the content priority from CSP or upstream CDN or the priority may even be updated at the downstream CDN depending on the service. Totally the requirements above are usual rules of content service operating and are also applicable for CDN-I use cases. 5. Use Cases In this section, three Use Cases to realize the requirements are described along with examples. ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 4] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 5.1. CDN authorization In this use case, the CP may make a list of pairs of CDN and its authorized service area. For example: _____________________________ | CDN Provider | Service Area | |______________|______________| | CDN-A | Beijing | |______________|______________| | CDN-B | Shanghai | |______________|______________| | CDN-C | Guangdong | |______________|______________| | .... | .... | |______________|______________| | CDN-Z | Tianjing | |______________|______________| | CDN-HK | Hongkong | |______________|______________| Figure 2: Example List of CDN Authorization Areas The list of CDN authorization areas may be created by the CP and be kept by all CDNs. When delivering content, CDN may refer to this list to determine with which CDN it has to connect. Here gives two sub-cases: Sub-Case one: for the unicast service, when the CP receives a content request from a UE located in Beijing, CP will redirect that request to CDN-A. CDN-A then will check whether the requested content is available locally. If yes, then provide the content to the requesting UE, else if the content at that time is only stored in Tianjing and Guangdong, CDN-A will contact CDN-Z or CDN-C getting that content and at last issue that content to the UE. Sub-Case two: for the broadcast service, the content broadcast route may be designed based on the geographical relationship of each area. For example Tianjing is very near to Beijing. If the CP is also located in Beijing, for the content broadcast, the content may be delivered from CP to CDN-A first and CDN-A will then forward the content to CDN-Z. In the same way, the content to CDN-HK may be forwarded from CDN-C since Hongkong is near to Guangdong. To design such transport route should consider the transport efficiency, neither overlap nor neglect an area. Further, if concern there are possibly multiple CDNs in an area, for example CDN-Ax and CDN-Ay both serve in Beijing, there should be an entity coordinating these two CDNs(CDN-Ax and CDN-Ay) and contacting ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 5] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 other CDNs outside of Beijing. Or probably each CDN in the same area is responsible for different services, e.g. CDN-Ax serves for Mobile request and CDN-Bx serves for request of IPTV service. The arrangement above may be seen as a typical deployment policy( may be beneficial for both efficiency and business cooperation). The core issue is to keep all CDNs complying with the same policy. 5.2. Constraint for Content The arrangement of content publishing/content service is another typical policy controlled by CP. For example, the rights of OlympicGame in 2008 for live broadcast in China Mainland was purchased by CCTV and all related content may only be accessed in China Mainland. Hereby a terminal from outside Mainland of China such as Hongkong is prohibited to access the live Olympic broadcast or video on demand issued from CCTV during Olympic period(Hongkong users may access Olympic content from another content provider locally in Hongkong). Hence for all the CDNs within China during Olympic period, the content forward should abide this constriction. If broadcast both Movie-A and OlympicGame B, CDN-C should deliver content of Movie-A to CDN-HK but should not deliver content of OlympicGame B to CDN-HK. ________________________________________________ | Content Name | Service Area | Service Period | |______________|______________|__________________| | Movie-A | China | 2009.01--2009.12 | |______________|______________|__________________| |OlympicGame B |China Mainland| 2008.08--2008.10 | |______________|______________|__________________| Figure 3: Example List of Constraint for Content When the service period expires, the CDNs should remove the related content. This constraint in fact has controlled the broadcast service as a limited broadcast. This is another typical use case of broadcast or multicast over CDN interconnection. 5.3. Content Adaptation To support the diversity of terminals and the fluctuant network band width, adaptation measures may be conducted for the content services. While for the CDN operator, it is better only to maintain minimum(only one) content format(s). So, one solution is to transform the content format prior to delivery. It means the content forwarded between CDNs may be RTP streams of best quality( e.g. HD ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 6] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 video and Hi-Fi audio) while the RTP stream may be transformed to adaptive streaming to serve for user. One possible realization is that the delivering CDN which is nearest to the UE performs such delivery format adaptation according to the UE's capabilities. The adaptation may include, but is not limited to, conversion to adaptive streaming, the transport format conversion, codec type conversion, content encapsulation conversion and content metadata conversion (e.g. content description, program information, etc). For example, content is delivered from Content Provider through CDN-A to CDN-B in the form of normal RTP streams. The delivering CDN, i.e. CDN-B, determines that a UE requires the content to be delivered using adaptive HTTP streaming, CDN-B now transforms the RTP streams to an adaptive HTTP stream that can be delivered to the UE. See as figure 4: +-------+ RTP Streams +-------+ RTP Streams +-------+ | CSP |------------>| CDN-A |------------>| CDN-B | +-------+ +-------+ +-------+ |Converted to |HTTP Streaming | +-------+ -------------->| UE | +-------+ Figure 4. Example of Content Adaptation This use case is applicable for either broadcast or unicast service; for either live Broadcast or VOD service. The content may be transformed and stored as different files with different formats/ rates. According to the UE capability(media resolution, media types, bandwidth, etc), the content request will be forwarded to specific content link of different content files/live broadcast sources. 5.4. Content Priority For the differ-service of content delivery, one way is to set priority for the content. For example the content for more users may be set a high priority and will be served first. For example, when CDN-A receives two tasks to deliver two contents to its downstream CDNs, CDN-A will check the priority of these two contents. Since content-A is a live broadcast of football game to millions of audiences and has been set a very high priority, CDN-A will handle the task of content-A with high priority. In general, the content should be set a priority before it is delivered. The content priority may be set by CSP, Upstream CDN or the UE( the user) and the priority may be set whether it may be ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 7] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 updated or not in terms of service implementation. For instance, the user may set his subscribed content with a high priority with high price and may change the priority sometimes, but the user may not set the priority of some contents such as the advertisement content. With the content priority, the CDN may also provide a VAS for the user. If the user has subscribed two contents and when there is a time conflict of these two content services, CDN will automatically deliver the content service with high priority to the UE. One example is, the user has subscribed two broadcast content services: the News program from 6 to 10 o'clock and a football game from 7 o'clock but the football game is set a higher priority. At 6 o'clock, the CDN starts to deliver News content to UE and when time arrives at 7 o'clock, the CDN will automatically stop the News content delivery but start to deliver the content of football game. Accordingly, the UE will alter to play the football game from the News. When the football game finishes at 10 after 9 o'clock, the CDN will automatically deliver again the News to the UE. This use case is applicable for either broadcast or unicast service; for either live Broadcast or VOD service. The core requirement is the mechanism of priority management(e.g. set, exchange, update). 6. Application Example Taking TISPAN CDN architecture as example in this section, a full implementary instance for broadcast service performing the operating requirements is given as below: +------------+ +-------------+ | ALF/CDN-A |--------- | ALF /CDN-Z | +------------+ +-------------+ | | | | +-------+ 1) +-----------+ 4) +-----------+ | CSP |-------|CDNCF/CDN-A|-----------|CDNCF/CDN-Z| +-------+ +-----------+ +-----------+ | \ 2)| 5)| | 3)\ +-------------+ 6) +-------------+ | \___ |CLUSTER/CDN-A|-------- |CLUSTER/CDN-Z| 7)| +-------------+ +-------------+ | | +-------+ 8) | | UE |------------------------------------- +-------+ Figure 5: Example of Broadcast Service via CDN Interconnection ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 8] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 Execution steps for this procedure may be as following: step 1: CSP informs to broadcast the content. step 2: CDNCF in CDN-A informs its clusters to receive/get the content( sports game with HD video format). step 3: Cluster in CDN-A receives/gets the content from CSP. step 4: CDNCF in CDN-A informs another CDNCF in CDN-Z to receive/get the content from the cluster in CDN-A. step 5: CDNCF in CDN-Z informs its clusters to receive/get the content from CDN-A. step 6: cluster in CDN-Z receives/gets the content from cluster in CDN-A. step 7: A UE in Tianjing subscribes the broadcast service. Through a general CDN procedure, the UE is informed the address of cluster under CDN-Z where UE may receive the broadcast content. Additionally, CDN-Z may provide HTTP adaptive streaming and the content received from CDN-A is transformed in adaptive streaming for the UE. step 8: UE receives the broadcast service from CDN-Z. 7. Security Considerations The involved service information should be guaranteed unchanged. More detail may be provided later. 8. IANA Considerations This document requires no actions from IANA. 9. Acknowledgements Many thanks to all the members of Huawei Software CDN project team and all the friends met in the CDN standard meetings. 10. Normative References [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 9] Internet-Draft CDNI use case Jul 2011 Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. [TISPAN] ETSI TISPAN, "CDN Architecture(ETSI TS 182 019)". [MCD] ETSI MCD, "Media CDN Interconnection, use cases and requirements(ETSI TS 102 990)". [IETF-CDNI-usecase] IETF CDNI, "[Draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases]". [IETF-CDNI-problem-statement] IETF CDNI, "[Draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement]". Author's Address Zhipeng Zhou Huawei Technologies, Inc. No.101, Software Avenue, Yuhuatai District Nanjing 210012 P.R.China Phone: +86-25-56620690 Email: zhouzp@huawei.com ZP.Zhou Expires January 21, 2012 [Page 10] --Boundary_(ID_yRQqZ+t1M8SASdh7uBj7Ag)-- From Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu Thu Jul 21 06:47:13 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5473F21F85C0 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.768 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.768 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.481, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id prdkOxwqUHSw for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de (smtp0.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F2221F85BB for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4774428000329 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:47:11 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office.hd) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FB6nLR4YMlhh for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:47:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from METHONE.office.hd (Methone.office.hd [192.168.24.54]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2385028000198 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:47:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Polydeuces.office.hd ([169.254.3.125]) by METHONE.office.hd ([192.168.24.54]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 15:47:06 +0200 From: Martin Stiemerling To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 Thread-Index: AcxHrIipDexwyqLlTDGSsobLRHSvsg== Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:47:05 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 13:47:13 -0000 Hi, I have just stumbled over the new normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cd= ni-requirements-02. It does not take the one of RFC 2119 and also uses a di= fferent typing in the draft. Is there a specific intent to not use RFC 2119 language? Martin martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Re= gistered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in = England 2832014=20 From flefauch@cisco.com Thu Jul 21 07:57:33 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460EA21F8AFB for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:57:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.599, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ah4By6HpqNO8 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E3B21F8A70 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 07:57:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=1395; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311260249; x=1312469849; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IuSQ+lhd7cIEFmgo4p8n8x7DpcH6p6cFMHNUD5D3f9A=; b=BextLQUWV840n+LshWlDTz+yv3YexvvdO/H72begb/ReckZ/IIdOlnyT 6fS0fec0XCIlNsGe+3HCElmeBQF4zHfHTp8l+X1qzZP163k2/YGMhMFq5 aHt7Q7Xi6WposQmh76FloKCpxmBBUNwA8U5+MJvCtupUFuIRjGU0ceo2t Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,240,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="43754168" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2011 14:57:28 +0000 Received: from ams-flefauch-8713.cisco.com (ams-flefauch-8713.cisco.com [10.55.161.196]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6LEvRwp014465; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:57:27 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francois Le Faucheur In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 16:57:38 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Martin Stiemerling X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:57:33 -0000 Hello Martin, On 21 Jul 2011, at 15:47, Martin Stiemerling wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I have just stumbled over the new normative language in = draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02. It does not take the one of RFC = 2119 and also uses a different typing in the draft. >=20 > Is there a specific intent to not use RFC 2119 language? Yes.=20 In a nutshell, the idea is that our Must/May/Should terminology for the = cdni-requirements I-D does not exactly coincide with the terminology of = RFC2119. RFC2119 terminology is designed for Standards Track document, = and we will obviously use that terminology in all the interface = specifications, but for our Informational Track requirements document, = it feels more appropriate to define a more relevant terminology. See also: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00287.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00290.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00292.html Cheers Francois >=20 > Martin >=20 > martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu >=20 > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited = | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | = Registered in England 2832014=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu Fri Jul 22 02:15:37 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDDA21F86AF for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:15:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UIZNwYvJ-JbU for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de (smtp0.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD1721F86AA for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE21D28000331; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:15:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office.hd) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b0ugq9qUYm2A; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:15:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ENCELADUS.office.hd (ENCELADUS.office.hd [192.168.24.52]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD2228000198; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:15:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Polydeuces.office.hd ([169.254.3.125]) by ENCELADUS.office.hd ([192.168.24.52]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:15:25 +0200 From: Martin Stiemerling To: Francois Le Faucheur Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 Thread-Index: AcxHrIipDexwyqLlTDGSsobLRHSvsv//8ncA//6sQ8A= Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:15:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:15:37 -0000 Hello Francois, I see the difference and the intention to go for another set of definitions= .=20 It would be good to document what you have said below in the draft before d= efining the terms. This would avoid more of these questions like mine :) Thanks, Martin > -----Original Message----- > From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:58 PM > To: Martin Stiemerling > Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requireme= nts- > 02 >=20 > Hello Martin, >=20 > On 21 Jul 2011, at 15:47, Martin Stiemerling wrote: >=20 > > Hi, > > > > I have just stumbled over the new normative language in draft-lefaucheu= r- > cdni-requirements-02. It does not take the one of RFC 2119 and also uses = a > different typing in the draft. > > > > Is there a specific intent to not use RFC 2119 language? >=20 > Yes. > In a nutshell, the idea is that our Must/May/Should terminology for the c= dni- > requirements I-D does not exactly coincide with the terminology of RFC211= 9. > RFC2119 terminology is designed for Standards Track document, and we will > obviously use that terminology in all the interface specifications, but f= or our > Informational Track requirements document, it feels more appropriate to > define a more relevant terminology. >=20 > See also: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00287.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00290.html > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00292.html >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Francois >=20 >=20 > > > > Martin > > > > martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu > > > > NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited = | > Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered= in > England 2832014 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CDNi mailing list > > CDNi@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >=20 From flefauch@cisco.com Fri Jul 22 02:30:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 681E121F86B9 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:30:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.06 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.06 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.539, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3uftLUDgj62Z for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D80121F86A6 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 02:30:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=2351; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311327040; x=1312536640; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0+lB+iy0MewutYy3zeU9vRprmonRnEFZ4+PIYLqbWXw=; b=jM8e9D8XO8WJSlTp26yfqmV1TDligK9j3ZN+tfJVgt8nsR4CJoOfJOu9 rGKuAM9LpvIB2m0ZJQJ7Pc5kq3j16PSc+vgzZp44kmrQPR2TPNJObAQdK 5AMV8Pn8mFo6YwXLgYJeADjBFjENPBmcZjt5lTBCAFujE0G2PLNBAjZ+5 o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,246,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="103849262" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2011 09:30:36 +0000 Received: from ams-flefauch-8713.cisco.com (ams-flefauch-8713.cisco.com [10.55.161.196]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6M9UZ61010236; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:30:36 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francois Le Faucheur In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:30:52 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Yiu Lee , "Kent (kleung) Leung" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:30:41 -0000 Yiu, Kent, This sounds like a good suggestion to me. If you also agree, can you add = that to the To Do list? Thanks Francois On 22 Jul 2011, at 11:15, Martin Stiemerling wrote: > Hello Francois, >=20 > I see the difference and the intention to go for another set of = definitions.=20 >=20 > It would be good to document what you have said below in the draft = before defining the terms. This would avoid more of these questions like = mine :) >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Martin >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:58 PM >> To: Martin Stiemerling >> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in = draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements- >> 02 >>=20 >> Hello Martin, >>=20 >> On 21 Jul 2011, at 15:47, Martin Stiemerling wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I have just stumbled over the new normative language in = draft-lefaucheur- >> cdni-requirements-02. It does not take the one of RFC 2119 and also = uses a >> different typing in the draft. >>>=20 >>> Is there a specific intent to not use RFC 2119 language? >>=20 >> Yes. >> In a nutshell, the idea is that our Must/May/Should terminology for = the cdni- >> requirements I-D does not exactly coincide with the terminology of = RFC2119. >> RFC2119 terminology is designed for Standards Track document, and we = will >> obviously use that terminology in all the interface specifications, = but for our >> Informational Track requirements document, it feels more appropriate = to >> define a more relevant terminology. >>=20 >> See also: >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00287.html >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00290.html >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00292.html >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Martin >>>=20 >>> martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu >>>=20 >>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe = Limited | >> Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | = Registered in >> England 2832014 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CDNi mailing list >>> CDNi@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >=20 From yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com Fri Jul 22 06:53:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 493C821F856A for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:53:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.99 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.99 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.745, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nc89yTolq0FW for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C3421F8515 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.41]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.45740807; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:58:17 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB02.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::11d4:f530:37a0:9f4e%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:53:40 -0400 From: "Lee, Yiu" To: Francois Le Faucheur , "Kent (kleung) Leung" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 Thread-Index: AQHMSHbI7gNN5JdVKk69nrkLs81tpA== Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:53:39 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.12.0.110505 x-originating-ip: [147.191.125.13] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1D2A7D77A827D9489E30CC9245C2C52D@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:53:45 -0000 Ok. We will add this to the to-do list. On 7/22/11 5:30 AM, "Francois Le Faucheur" wrote: >Yiu, Kent, > >This sounds like a good suggestion to me. If you also agree, can you add >that to the To Do list? > >Thanks > >Francois > >On 22 Jul 2011, at 11:15, Martin Stiemerling wrote: > >> Hello Francois, >>=20 >> I see the difference and the intention to go for another set of >>definitions.=20 >>=20 >> It would be good to document what you have said below in the draft >>before defining the terms. This would avoid more of these questions like >>mine :) >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Martin >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:58 PM >>> To: Martin Stiemerling >>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Normative language in >>>draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements- >>> 02 >>>=20 >>> Hello Martin, >>>=20 >>> On 21 Jul 2011, at 15:47, Martin Stiemerling wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I have just stumbled over the new normative language in >>>>draft-lefaucheur- >>> cdni-requirements-02. It does not take the one of RFC 2119 and also >>>uses a >>> different typing in the draft. >>>>=20 >>>> Is there a specific intent to not use RFC 2119 language? >>>=20 >>> Yes. >>> In a nutshell, the idea is that our Must/May/Should terminology for >>>the cdni- >>> requirements I-D does not exactly coincide with the terminology of >>>RFC2119. >>> RFC2119 terminology is designed for Standards Track document, and we >>>will >>> obviously use that terminology in all the interface specifications, >>>but for our >>> Informational Track requirements document, it feels more appropriate to >>> define a more relevant terminology. >>>=20 >>> See also: >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00287.html >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00290.html >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cdni/current/msg00292.html >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Martin >>>>=20 >>>> martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu >>>>=20 >>>> NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe >>>>Limited | >>> Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | >>>Registered in >>> England 2832014 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CDNi mailing list >>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>=20 >>=20 > From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com Fri Jul 22 10:48:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74B421F8B4C for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:48:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.872 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ghTmoaLVidEU for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285F521F8B49 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.42]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.45794118; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:53:17 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by PACDCEXHUB01.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1e7:20b5:9b63:21a6%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:48:40 -0400 From: "Woundy, Richard" To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: CDNI agenda and call for presentation slides Thread-Index: AcxIl5aBOskLFEpdTnOu+lSHXNFQrA== Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:48:38 +0000 Message-ID: <1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D8D5B@PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.96.69.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D8D5BPACDCEXMB05cabl_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [CDNi] CDNI agenda and call for presentation slides X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:48:48 -0000 --_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D8D5BPACDCEXMB05cabl_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The CDNI session agenda has been uploaded to http://www.ietf.org/proceeding= s/81/agenda/cdni.htm and is reproduced below. Presenters, please email your draft presentations to the co-chairs (Francoi= s and myself) by Monday evening. Our plan is to post the slides to the IETF= website by Wednesday evening, prior to our face-to-face meeting in Quebec = City on Thursday evening. -- Rich & Francois CDNI Working Group Agenda IETF-81, Quebec City, Canada July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B) Chairs: Francois Le Faucheur Richard Woundy - WG introduction & agenda bashing (5 min, Rich/Francois) - Problem statement (draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-statement) (20 min, Ben Niven-Jenkins= ) - Use cases (draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases) (15 min, Gilles Bertrand) - Use cases (draft-zhou-cdni-use-case) (5 min, Zhipeng Zhou) - Requirements (draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements) (20 min, Yiu Lee/Kent Leung) - Framework (draft-davie-cdni-framework) (20 min, Bruce Davie) - Request routing (draft-xiaoyan-cdni-requestrouting) (10 min, Spencer Dawkins) - Request routing (draft-stiemerling-cdni-routing-cons) (5 min, Martin Stiemerling) - Terminology (draft-deventer-cdni-content-terminology) (Time Permitting, 5 min, R= ay van Brandenburg) - Discussions on next steps and conclusions (15 min) --_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D8D5BPACDCEXMB05cabl_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The CDNI session agenda has been uploaded to http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/agenda/cdni.htm and is reproduced be= low.

 

Presenters, please email your draft presentations to= the co-chairs (Francois and myself) by Monday evening. Our plan is to post= the slides to the IETF website by Wednesday evening, prior to our face-to-= face meeting in Quebec City on Thursday evening.

 

-- Rich & Francois

 

CDNI Working Group Agenda

 

IETF-81, Quebec City, Canada

July 28, 2011 - 17:40-19:40 (206B)

 

Chairs: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com&= gt;

        Richard W= oundy <richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com>

 

- WG introduction & agenda bashing (5 min, Rich/= Francois)

- Problem statement (draft-jenkins-cdni-problem-sta= tement) (20 min, Ben Niven-Jenkins)

- Use cases (draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases)  = ; (15 min, Gilles Bertrand)

- Use cases (draft-zhou-cdni-use-case)   (5 min, = Zhipeng Zhou)

- Requirements (draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements) (20 min, Yiu Lee/Kent Leung)

- Framework (draft-davie-cdni-framework) (20 min, Bruce D= avie)

- Request routing (draft-xiaoyan-cdni-requestrouting) (10 min, Spencer Dawkins)

- Request routing (draft-stiemerling-cdni-routing-co= ns) (5 min, Martin Stiemerling)

- Terminology (draft-deventer-cdni-content-termi= nology) (Time Permitting, 5 min, Ray van Brandenburg)

- Discussions on next steps and conclusions (15 min)=

--_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135D8D5BPACDCEXMB05cabl_-- From sergem913@gmail.com Fri Jul 22 13:20:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18BF221F8A23 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.371 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.371 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id COYAWC2h1Hne for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4196321F89A7 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19so1684989gxk.31 for ; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=67wIeCpEUT1yzVD2hAiqiNeUMe8Z/NfYbIXI26yZA88=; b=Bn1pEZP3TPF/Fw0YKcsvXgVy0NFA6qKw/HVCyxKo6nV2rJ1e5wR7ce4sgpMNb7oP5X yiDu7CzmqdJYu5Lq+zZkHbUCPrNiz8B4H2Hw8mMmmh4shC1JcvXVOWC+VaLgh7/QD6kS fHhqs2+vy8iYEAWYARcU+2c6V5xgvOnKWevcQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.177.6 with SMTP id z6mr2340502ybe.434.1311366042913; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.150.53.13 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 15:20:42 -0500 Message-ID: From: Serge Manning To: cdni@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd6a876288bab04a8ae33eb Subject: [CDNi] ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:20:47 -0000 --000e0cd6a876288bab04a8ae33eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has just published use cases and requirements on CDN Interconnect. ATIS CSF has overlaps with the goals of this WG but is coming with input from telecom operators' perspective. The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writing detailed technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be able to write standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS CSF is also open to requirements feedback from this group in terms of technical limitations and suggestions. A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determine the unique requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit them here in the near future (after Quebec). In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF document. It is freely available for a time although it does require a painless registration. Go here a= nd register and then use the code "CSF711" for a free download. Thanks for you= r attention. Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide background info. --=20 --Serge =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D *ATIS Cloud Services Forum Releases Content Distribution Network Interconnection Specifications * July 5, 2011 =97 Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Ser= vices Forum (CSF) has released the *CDN Interconnection Use Case Specification an= d High Level Requirements (ATIS-0200003) *standards document. The standard provides an initial description of content distribution networks (CDNs) and develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to support passing content distribution requests between two service providers. The standard enables CDN interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common interfaces between providers=92 operations systems, back office interfaces, routing equipment, and network interconnections. The CSF=92s end-to-end process perspective is designed specifically to improve the efficiency and quality of service delivery to end users. Completed in only three months, this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 rapid response to evolving carrier needs a= nd delivers inter-carrier solutions essential to broad adoption of cloud services. =93The standard marks a major step forward in enabling seamless, global content delivery, especially for video, between service providers,=94 said ATIS President and CEO, Susan Miller. =93What sets the CSF=92s work apart = is its focus on business needs as the driver for better interconnection. This ATIS technical solution for inter-provider content delivery helps providers meet critical customer service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve end-user experience through cost effective video delivery.=94 This initial CSF standard is intended to serve as the basis for future efforts which will examine: 1) the delivery of more complex types of conten= t such as live streaming, video on demand, and peak-hour web interactions involving the use of authorization and authentication procedures; 2) the us= e of multicast delivery methods for some of these content types; and 3) interaction scenarios in a multi-provider content distribution environment involving a Federated Exchange. Until September 30, 2011, the new standard is available at no charge throug= h the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711=94. The Doc= ument Center is the leading online resource to published and pre-published telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, requirements and guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and committees. *About ATIS** *ATIS is the leading technical planning and standards development organization committed to the rapid development of global, market-driven standards for the information, entertainment and communications industry. More than 200 companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees, covering issues including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Base= d and Wireless Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational Support, Emergency Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition, numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address evolving industry priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP Downloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network Optimization. ATIS is the North American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92 Sectors, and a member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission (CITEL). ATIS is accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). For more information, please visit www.atis.org . *About the Cloud Services Forum** *ATIS=92 Cloud Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of cloud services from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use cases that leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses indust= ry priorities and develops implementable solutions for this evolving marketplace. CSF is working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by service providers =96 are quickly operationalized to facilitate the deliver= y of interoperable, secure, and managed services. Current priorities include content distribution network interconnection, cloud services framework, inter-carrier telepresence, virtual desktop, virtual private network, and development of a cloud services checklist for onboarding. ------------------------------ --000e0cd6a876288bab04a8ae33eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has just pu= blished use cases and requirements on CDN Interconnect.=A0ATIS CSF has over= laps with the goals of this WG but is coming with input from telecom operat= ors'=A0perspective.=A0

The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writi= ng detailed technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be= able to write standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS CS= F is also open to requirements feedback from this group in terms of technic= al limitations and suggestions.=A0

A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determ= ine the unique requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit= them here in the near future (after Quebec).

In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF doc= ument. It is freely available for a time although it does require a painles= s registration. Go here and register and then use the code "CSF711&qu= ot; for a free download. Thanks for your attention.=A0

Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide bac= kground info.

--=A0
--Serge
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ATIS Cloud Services Forum Releases Content Distribution Network Interconnection Specifications=A0

=A0

July 5, 2011 =97 Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Services Forum (CS= F) has released the CDN Interconnection Use Case Specification and High Level Requirements (ATIS-0200003) standards document. =A0The standard provides an initial description of content distribution networks (CDNs) a= nd develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to support passing content distribution requests between two service providers.

The standard enables CDN interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common interfaces between provid= ers=92 operations systems, back office interfaces, routing equipment, and networ= k interconnections. =A0The CSF=92s end-to-end process perspective is design= ed specifically to improve the efficiency and quality of service delivery to= end users. Completed in only three months, this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 r= apid response to evolving carrier needs and delivers inter-carrier solutions essential to broad adoption of cloud services.

=93The standard marks a major step forward in enabling seamless, global content delivery, especia= lly for video, between service providers,=94 said ATIS President and CEO, Sus= an Miller. =A0=93What sets the CSF=92s work apart is its focus on business n= eeds as the driver for better interconnection. This ATIS technical solution fo= r inter-provider content delivery helps providers meet critical customer service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve end-user experience thr= ough cost effective video delivery.=94

This initial CSF standard is intended to serve as the basis for future efforts which will examine: = 1) the delivery of more complex types of content such as live streaming, vid= eo on demand, and peak-hour web interactions involving the use of authorizat= ion and authentication procedures; 2) the use of multicast delivery methods f= or some of these content types; and 3) interaction scenarios in a multi-prov= ider content distribution environment involving a Federated Exchange.

Until September 30, 2011, t= he new standard is available at no charge through the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711= =94. The Document Center is the leading online resource to published and pre-publi= shed telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, requirements a= nd guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and committees.

About ATIS
ATIS is the leading technical planning and standards development organization committ= ed to the rapid development of global, market-driven standards for the information, entertainment and communications industry. More than 200 companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees, covering is= sues including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Based and Wireless Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational Support, Emerge= ncy Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition, numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address evolving indust= ry priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP Downloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network Optimization.

ATIS is the North American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation Partnership Projec= t (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92 Sectors, an= d a member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission (CITEL). ATIS i= s accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). For more information, please visit www.at= is.org.

About the Cloud Services Forum=
ATIS=92 Cloud Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of cloud services from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use cases that leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses industry priori= ties and develops implementable solutions for this evolving marketplace. CSF i= s working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by service providers= =96 are quickly operationalized to facilitate the delivery of interoperable, secu= re, and managed services. Current priorities include content distribution net= work interconnection, cloud services framework, inter-carrier telepresence, virtual desktop, virtual private network, and development of a cloud serv= ices checklist for onboarding.=A0

=A0
--000e0cd6a876288bab04a8ae33eb-- From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com Mon Jul 25 09:17:12 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0F911E807D for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:17:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_OBFU_Q1=0.227] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d3l9mx9NbDRB for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD4721F8F21 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p6PFjC5s015928; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:45:20 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.59]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:45:13 -0400 From: Alan Kavanagh To: Serge Manning , "cdni@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:42:55 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI Thread-Index: AcxIrNph30OnBggqR+CHP5ay2B56pACNKsT/ Message-ID: <1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D50B4E9BCE7E@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-CA X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [CDNi] ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:17:13 -0000 I believe it is always beneficial to have the perspective views of operator= s and I believe the CSF document has some good points which should be inclu= ded in some of the CDN-I WG documents. Alan ________________________________ From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Serge Mann= ing [sergem913@gmail.com] Sent: July 22, 2011 4:20 PM To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has just pu= blished use cases and requirements on CDN Interconnect. ATIS CSF has overla= ps with the goals of this WG but is coming with input from telecom operator= s' perspective. The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writing detailed tec= hnical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be able to write = standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS CSF is also open = to requirements feedback from this group in terms of technical limitations = and suggestions. A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determine the unique requi= rements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit them here in the ne= ar future (after Quebec). In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF doc= ument. It is freely available for a time although it does require a painles= s registration. Go here and reg= ister and then use the code "CSF711" for a free download. Thanks for your a= ttention. Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide background info. -- --Serge =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ATIS Cloud Services Forum Releases Content Distribution Network Interconnec= tion Specifications July 5, 2011 =97 Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Ser= vices Forum (CSF) has released the CDN Interconnection Use Case Specificati= on and High Level Requirements (ATIS-0200003) standards document. The stan= dard provides an initial description of content distribution networks (CDNs= ) and develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to sup= port passing content distribution requests between two service providers. The standard enables CDN interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common in= terfaces between providers=92 operations systems, back office interfaces, r= outing equipment, and network interconnections. The CSF=92s end-to-end pro= cess perspective is designed specifically to improve the efficiency and qua= lity of service delivery to end users. Completed in only three months, this= effort demonstrates ATIS=92 rapid response to evolving carrier needs and d= elivers inter-carrier solutions essential to broad adoption of cloud servic= es. =93The standard marks a major step forward in enabling seamless, global con= tent delivery, especially for video, between service providers,=94 said ATI= S President and CEO, Susan Miller. =93What sets the CSF=92s work apart is = its focus on business needs as the driver for better interconnection. This = ATIS technical solution for inter-provider content delivery helps providers= meet critical customer service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve e= nd-user experience through cost effective video delivery.=94 This initial CSF standard is intended to serve as the basis for future effo= rts which will examine: 1) the delivery of more complex types of content su= ch as live streaming, video on demand, and peak-hour web interactions invol= ving the use of authorization and authentication procedures; 2) the use of = multicast delivery methods for some of these content types; and 3) interact= ion scenarios in a multi-provider content distribution environment involvin= g a Federated Exchange. Until September 30, 2011, the new standard is available at no charge throug= h the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711=94. The D= ocument Center is the leading online resource to published and pre-publishe= d telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, requirements a= nd guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and committees. About ATIS ATIS is the leading technical planning and standards development organizati= on committed to the rapid development of global, market-driven standards fo= r the information, entertainment and communications industry. More than 200= companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees, covering iss= ues including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Based and Wirele= ss Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational Support, Emerg= ency Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition, = numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address evolving industry= priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP Dow= nloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network Optimization. ATIS is the North American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation Pa= rtnership Project (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the Intern= ational Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92 Secto= rs, and a member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission (CITEL)= . ATIS is accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). F= or more information, please visit www.atis.org. About the Cloud Services Forum ATIS=92 Cloud Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of cl= oud services from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use c= ases that leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses industr= y priorities and develops implementable solutions for this evolving marketp= lace. CSF is working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by servic= e providers =96 are quickly operationalized to facilitate the delivery of i= nteroperable, secure, and managed services. Current priorities include cont= ent distribution network interconnection, cloud services framework, inter-c= arrier telepresence, virtual desktop, virtual private network, and developm= ent of a cloud services checklist for onboarding. ________________________________ From bdavie@cisco.com Mon Jul 25 14:30:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8131421F8BBC for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.729 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.729 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.869, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KdhHZ7VcJsn for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95FE121F86A0 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:30:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=7530; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311629422; x=1312839022; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=7vnvQ18UAvWI9XCIDINxIG5h3ZOk0aZ619rqaL7Dkes=; b=Zu/NywbaII72wFMZNEkZl1V3kzFNKnhATwY85MGDarp63QBiOqkQQj71 ItGEExjV+l0sagzRt/bnCRlcesx+q84g2lNfEwNVqjNGzJsVNAFAqfZsf nSf1n9NLz18k2ATEeT9Xsk2TSZF16UlCniBY2IRTtaNnWZafhpall1I0r w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EAI7fLU6rRDoH/2dsb2JhbAA0AQEBAQIBFAFuAgUMDFIUUQc+gjakfneIfKJDnjWFYF8EknCQfA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,264,1309737600"; d="scan'208,217";a="6267805" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2011 21:30:22 +0000 Received: from sjc-vpnasa-324.cisco.com (sjc-vpnasa-324.cisco.com [10.21.105.70]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6PLUEQ7022325; Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:30:16 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-18-462247926 From: Bruce Davie In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D6D@MAILR002.mail.lan> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:30:13 -0400 Message-Id: References: <20110701223523.17859.54099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAF@MAILR002.mail.lan> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BFC2D6D@MAILR002.mail.lan> To: Kevin J Ma X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:30:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail-18-462247926 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kevin, I realized I never got back to you on your last question, but here is a = quick (i.e. possibly half-baked) answer for now. In general, I think = that using any subset of the interfaces is acceptable, as long as you = meet the needs of some use case. So, as far as the framework goes, I = would say that the examples in this section (Section 5) and definitely = not meant to be exhaustive, and we can make that clearer in the next = rev. Bruce On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote: > Hi Bruce, > =20 > The additional clarifications and caveats alluded to below sound = good. > =20 > With respect to the last point: > =20 > > I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to = what we showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing = piece. We certainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI = interfaces might be used. > =20 > I was thinking more about an opposite to Figure 13. I guess I just = wanted > to clarify if any subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if = there is a > specific distinction for what is shown in Figure 13 (i.e. only RR). = If > the latter, then it might be helpful to explain the distinction = further > (e.g., is RR always required)? > =20 > thanx. --Apple-Mail-18-462247926 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
 
 
  > I guess what you are = describing here seems similar in intent to what we showed in Figure 12, = with the removal of the request routing piece. We certainly do see cases = where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be used. 
 to clarify = if any subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if there is = a
 specific distinction for what is = shown in Figure 13 (i.e. only RR).  If
  (e.g., is RR always = required)?
 
Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:12:13 -0000 --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19BCD2MAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable understood. thanx. From: Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com] Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 5:30 PM To: Kevin J Ma Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework= -00.txt Kevin, I realized I never got back to you on your last question, but here is a qu= ick (i.e. possibly half-baked) answer for now. In general, I think that usi= ng any subset of the interfaces is acceptable, as long as you meet the need= s of some use case. So, as far as the framework goes, I would say that the = examples in this section (Section 5) and definitely not meant to be exhaust= ive, and we can make that clearer in the next rev. Bruce On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote: Hi Bruce, The additional clarifications and caveats alluded to below sound good. With respect to the last point: > I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to what we= showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. We cer= tainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be used. I was thinking more about an opposite to Figure 13. I guess I just wanted to clarify if any subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if there is = a specific distinction for what is shown in Figure 13 (i.e. only RR). If the latter, then it might be helpful to explain the distinction further (e.g., is RR always required)? thanx. --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19BCD2MAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

understood.  thanx.

 

From: Bruce Davie [mailto:bdavie@cisco.com]
Sent: Mo= nday, July 25, 2011 5:30 PM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: cdni@iet= f.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification for draft-davi= e-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

Kevin,

 I realized I never got back to you on your last ques= tion, but here is a quick (i.e. possibly half-baked) answer for now. In gen= eral, I think that using any subset of the interfaces is acceptable, as lon= g as you meet the needs of some use case. So, as far as the framework goes,= I would say that the examples in this section (Section 5) and definitely n= ot meant to be exhaustive, and we can make that clearer in the next rev.

 

Bruce

<= o:p> 

On Jul 8, 2011, at 12:35= PM, Kevin J Ma wrote:



Hi Bruce,

 =

  The additional clarifications = and caveats alluded to below sound good.

  With respect to the = last point:

 

  > I guess what you are describing here seems similar in intent to w= hat we showed in Figure 12, with the removal of the request routing piece. = We certainly do see cases where some subset of the CDNI interfaces might be= used.

 

 I was thinking more about an opposite to Figure 13.  I gue= ss I just wanted

 to clarify if a= ny subset is acceptable (e.g., just C/L/D), or if there is a

 specific distinction for what is shown in Figu= re 13 (i.e. only RR).  If

  = the latter, then it might be helpful to explain the distinction further

  (e.g., is RR always required)?

 

In-Reply-To: <794B5D26-6005-497B-B6C6-037FA14A7935@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:36:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4A1F0DD8-8E1F-4B7C-8542-AACE9470E1D3@cisco.com> References: <794B5D26-6005-497B-B6C6-037FA14A7935@cisco.com> To: Niven-Jenkins Ben , Nabil N Bitar , Bruce Davie , Larry Peterson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Definitions for "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request routing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:35:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail-394-541815291 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi, Any thoughts on that before the WG meeting? Francois On 8 Jul 2011, at 14:01, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: > Folks, >=20 > The definitions for the terms of "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request = routing" had been included in the cdni-requirements document until they = move to a more suitable place. > Could you guys agree on which document these definitions should = migrate into (problem-statement or framework) and keep a mental note to = include it there in the next rev? >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Francois >=20 > PS: Here is the relevant excerpt from cdni-framework: >=20 > " > This also defined the following additional terms [Editor's Note: > these definitions may be better located in another document such as > the Problem Statement]: >=20 > o Recursive CDNI request routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to > redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can > query the Downstream CDN Request Routing system via the CDNI > Request Routing protocol (or use information cached from earlier > similar queries) to find out how the Downstream CDN wants the > request to be redirected, which allows the Upstream CDN to factor > in the Downstream CDN response when redirecting the user agent. > This approach is referred to as "recursive" CDNI request routing. > Note that the Downstream CDN may elect to have the request > redirected directly to a Surrogate inside the Downstream CDN, to > the Request-Routing System of the Downstream CDN, to another CDN, > or to any other system that the Downstream CDN sees as fit for > handling the redirected request. >=20 > o Iterative CDNI Request Routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to > redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can > base its redirection purely on a local decision (and without > attempting to take into account how the Downstream CDN may in = turn > redirect the user agent). In that case, the Upstream CDN > redirects the request to the request routing system in the > Downstream CDN, which in turn will decide how to redirect that > request: this approach is referred to as "iterative" CDNI request > routing. > " >=20 > Francois Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --Apple-Mail-394-541815291 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-395-541815291 --Apple-Mail-395-541815291 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Folks,

The definitions for the terms of = "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request routing" had been included in the = cdni-requirements document until they move to a more suitable = place.
Could you guys agree on which document these definitions = should migrate into (problem-statement or framework) and keep a mental = note to include it there in the next = rev?

Thanks

Francois

PS: Here is the relevant = excerpt from cdni-framework:

"
 This also defined the = following additional terms [Editor's Note:
  these = definitions may be better located in another document such as
=   the Problem Statement]:

  o =  Recursive CDNI request routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to
=      redirect a request towards a Downstream = CDN, the Upstream CDN can
     query the = Downstream CDN Request Routing system via the CDNI
=      Request Routing protocol (or use = information cached from earlier
=      similar queries) to find out how the = Downstream CDN wants the
     request to be = redirected, which allows the Upstream CDN to factor
=      in the Downstream CDN response when = redirecting the user agent.
     This = approach is referred to as "recursive" CDNI request routing.
=      Note that the Downstream CDN may elect to = have the request
     redirected directly = to a Surrogate inside the Downstream CDN, to
=      the Request-Routing System of the = Downstream CDN, to another CDN,
     or to = any other system that the Downstream CDN sees as fit for
=      handling the redirected request.

=   o  Iterative CDNI Request Routing: When an Upstream CDN = elects to
     redirect a request towards a = Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can
=      base its redirection purely on a local = decision (and without
     attempting to = take into account how the Downstream CDN may in turn
=      redirect the user agent).  In that = case, the Upstream CDN
     redirects the = request to the request routing system in the
=      Downstream CDN, which in turn will decide = how to redirect that
     request: this = approach is referred to as "iterative" CDNI request
=      routing.
"

Francois



Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.
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filename=green.gif Content-Type: image/gif; name="green.gif" Content-Id: R0lGODlhEgATAJEAAAAAAP///wCZAP///yH5BAEAAAMALAAAAAASABMAAAIojI+pGyK8nINqUiTf bVnfvHEg1UmhdZRqaawu6XZVjKb0/CYxo8JOAQA7 --Apple-Mail-395-541815291-- --Apple-Mail-394-541815291-- From flefauch@cisco.com Tue Jul 26 13:53:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF02E21F8A62 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:53:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.397, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kILQ64KN36VB for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D407C21F8A70 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:53:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=9669; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311713622; x=1312923222; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id: cc:to:mime-version; bh=TRjIzGdUfxVWRxEKV+64w2+FNY7IQuTREsA+u9oNPw0=; b=iJ5BbCyeup5J7CA6tc0oh/u+csfPFz1NRW5ZdLGxkCpUNybdfMuKBv4H cicAKBY0WQhvS2tlaeCy6YOxIFPpSsPZgpI2nFNUueI6pzCzQcgEXyXmN NFfB2CMOm6DW3f5/ZGYHZYNaiv41C38W9nGhFTq4kKrVshf9xJLJLXn2A U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,271,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="6643803" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2011 20:53:42 +0000 Received: from rtp-vpn2-1299.cisco.com (rtp-vpn2-1299.cisco.com [10.82.245.20]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6QKrfNh013782; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:53:42 GMT From: Francois Le Faucheur Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:54:06 -0400 Message-Id: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> To: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:53:46 -0000 Hello, Please find my review comments below. Cheers Francois *** Abstract & Introduction: " It provides the business motivations for CDNI Working Group, which can = be used to validate different interconnection arrangements, and requirements of = the various CDNI interfaces. " Now the WG is formed you may want to adjust into something like: " It can be used to provide guidance to the CDNI WG about the = interconnection arrangements to be supported and to validate the = requirements of the various CDNI interfaces." *** Introduction: " This document now merges input from [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and [I-D.ma-cdni-publisher-use-cases]. " I suggest you remove this historical info in new revs, as the document = gradually matures towards WG material. *** Introduction: " There are many possible combinations for the relationships between the different parties (Network Service Provider (NSP), CDN Provider, Content Service Provider (CSP) and End User) involved in end-to-end content delivery. However, in the context of interconnecting CDNs the key relationships are listed below. o How the CSP interacts with the CDN provider, so that the CDN delivers content in a manner compliant with CSP's distribution policies. o How the End User interacts with the CSP and one or more CDNs to request and receive content. o How the different CDN providers, operating their CDNs, interact with one another to deliver the CSP's content to the End User while continuing to enforce the CSP's distribution policies. " I don't quite see the relevance of this text in the use-case document, = or what point it is trying to bring across. In particular, it is a little confusing sine it talks about interfaces = that are out of scope for CDNI without saying so. *** 1.1 Terminology o I expect that terminology across problem-statement, requirements and = use-case needs to be aligned and made probably moved into one document = and referred by all the others.=20 o "CDN Peering": I am not sure we need that term.=20 o "Recursive request routing/ Recursive request routing": see discussion = on the list about moving those terms in a single doc=20 *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems I found it a little confusing to have the word "use cases" used here in = the introduction as well as later in teh individual use-cases. How about something like "Rationale or Multi-CDN Systems"? *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems " CSP-1 benefits because it only needs to make one business agreement and one physical connection, with CDN Provider A, but its End Users get a service quality as though it had also gone to the trouble of making a business agreement with CDN Provider B. " s/as though it had /as though CSP-1 had / *** 1.4. The Need for CDNI Standards " Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and an external CDN typically cannot use them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different solutions.=20 " It is difficult to use existing interfaces because they are proprietary, = but also because they have often been designed as intra-CDN/intra-domain = interfaces, so they don't have all the right attributes. Also, I think by "solutions" you mean "implementations". So perhaps: " Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and have often been design = for intra-CDN/intra-domain operations. So an external CDN typically = cannot use them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different = implementations. " " Nevertheless, [I-D.bertrand-cdni-experiments] shows that some level of CDN interconnection can be achieved experimentally without standardized interfaces between the CDNs. The methods used in these experiments are hardly usable in an operational context, because they suffer from several limitations in terms of functionalities, scalability, and security level. " s/ The methods used/However, the methods used/ " The aim of the CDNI standards work is therefore to overcome such shortcomings; a full list of requirements is being developed in [I-D.lefaucheur-cdni-requirements]. " s/the CDNI standards work/IETF CDNI WG solution/ ***2.1. Geographic Extension " In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic distribution that it can offer CSPs, without o compromising the quality of delivery o attracting transit and other network costs by serving from geographically or topologically remote surrogates. " I think would read better as: " In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic distribution that it can offer to its CSPs: o without compromising the quality of delivery o without incurring additional transit and other network costs that = would result from serving content from geographically or topologically remote surrogates. " " As an example, suppose a French CSP wants to distribute its TV programs to End Users located in various countries in Europe and North Africa. It asks a French CDN Provider to deliver the content. The French CDN Provider's network only covers France, so it makes an agreement with another CDN Provider that covers North Africa. Overall, from the CSP's perspective the French CDN Provider provides a CDN service for both France and North Africa. " The example initially mentions a required coverage of Europe+ North = Africa, but then seem to descrive a solution for a coverage of = France+North Africa. *** 2.2. Region to Region Interconnection I don't find the phrase "Region to Region" very distinctive versus the = previous "Geographic Extension". I think the key differences here is that the different CDNs are operated = by different organization that are affiliates of the same company. So how about "Inter-Affiliates Interconnection"? *** 2.3. Nomadic Users You may want to mention that this is often loosely referred to as "TV = everywhere". " The motivation in this case is to allow nomadic users to maintain = access, rather than to allow all residents within a region access to the content. " s/to maintain access/to maintain access with consistent quality of = experience/ You may want to expand a little on which CDNs need to be interconnected = to address the use case (ie with CDN of "home NSP" interconnected to CDN = of visited NSP) possibly with a picture. *** 2.4. Delivery Restrictions "Hence, the exchange through the CDN interconnection of information for controlling the footprint of the delivery is an important use case. " To me this is not an additional use cases, this is a requirement that = has to be met in the use cases described earlier. In fact, the document = mixes use cases and requirements in a few places. I would suggest that : * you refer to things discussed in that section as = "requirements" * add a statement clarifying these requirements apply to the use = cases discussed in the document. " o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files should be expunged from all CDN storage). " I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this = expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to deactivation = time.=20 I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring = that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? " The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which may include quality of service rules that specify: o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their subscription levels. " I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in = phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports = transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in = Initial scope. The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to = be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user = subscription level). *** 3.1. Overload Handling and Dimensioning " This brings dimensioning savings to the CDNs as they can use the = resources of each other during their peaks of activity. " s/their peaks of activity./ their respective peaks of activity./ *** 3.3. Branding Consideration Again, this seems more of a requirement than a use case per-say. I = recommend you make that clear upfront in teh section (ie this is not an = extra use cases, but a requirement applying to use-cases discussed = before). Also, is there a reason this applicable to only the use cases in section = 3 and not section 2? Anotehr option may be to move 2.4 and 3.3 under a separate heading = somewhere collecting key requirements applicable to the many use cases.=20= *** 4.1. Device and Network Technology Extension Again I think some of the discussion assumes that there is some = conversion of quality done inside the CDNs (as opposed to different = terminal requesting different URIs). I think we need to discuss whether this is going to come in Initial = Scope or not. *** in Figure 2:=20 s/CDN Provider A/CDN Provider 1/ *** co-authors. You have a long list of co-authors. As per current = practice, you would want to split that into "editors" and = "contributors". From ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl Tue Jul 26 14:37:20 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F4F811E80C5 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:37:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.591 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.095, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1jppte+5fAX0 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailoutb.tno.nl (mailoutb.tno.nl [134.221.1.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C105111E80AF for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:37:19 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,271,1309730400"; d="scan'208";a="12878589" Received: from unknown (HELO mail.tno.nl) ([134.221.225.221]) by mailhost1b.tno.nl with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2011 23:37:18 +0200 Received: from EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl ([169.254.3.211]) by EXC-CASHUB02.tsn.tno.nl ([134.221.225.221]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:37:18 +0200 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: "'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxL2Y3Oaob/ziv2RnuT6qpbeo2/lw== Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:37:17 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "'cdni@ietf.org'" Subject: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:37:20 -0000 Hi all, I noticed that the new version of the use cases document now includes an As= ymetric Distribution use case in section 4.1 which describes a scenario in = which different 'versions' of the same content are delivered by different C= DNs.=20 Although not explicitely stated in the text, the last paragraph in this sec= tion seems to strongly suggest that this use case should also work in combi= nation with the Nomadic scenario in which a device starts in one CDN and sw= itches to another (mid-stream). If this is indeed what the authors suggest,= I think it would be a good idea to more clearly state this, since such a u= se case adds a significant number of requirements compared to the 'regular'= asymmetric distribution use case.=20 In the case of HLS for example, it would require different segments belongi= ng to the same content item to be able to be distributed across CDNs. In t= urn this would require involved CDNs to no longer be able to handle a bundl= e of segments belonging to the same content as if it were a single file for= distribution and management purposes.=20 Best regards, Ray van Brandenburg=20 This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tn= o.nl/emaildisclaimer From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Tue Jul 26 15:23:07 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2786F11E80C0 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:23:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.554, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l451XXG2Z9eW for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF92811E812D for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C8E87914D6; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:23:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB012.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6800791293; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB012.mail.lan ([10.110.17.12]) with mapi; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:22:59 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: Francois Le Faucheur , "draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:22:59 -0400 Thread-Topic: comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxL1jAQQDFKaqW0Q3CJb1pD8bwxygAAbW1w Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C021@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:23:07 -0000 Francois, I think that 2.4, 3.3, and 4.1 generally describe the way a CSP would use= a CDN, which may influence CDNI considerations, as opposed to use cases whi= ch are say request routing specific. Would it make sense to break out 2.4 a= nd 3.3 into a separate policy-based distribution use case section? wrt 4.1,= I can see your point about separate URIs vs other intelligence functionalit= y. Would it make sense to simplify 4.1 and merged it back into 2.3? > -----Original Message----- > From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:54 PM > To: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org > Cc: Le Faucheur Francois; cdni@ietf.org > Subject: comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > Please find my review comments below. > Cheers >=20 > Francois >=20 > *** Abstract & Introduction: > " > It provides the business motivations for CDNI Working Group, which can be > used to > validate different interconnection arrangements, and requirements of > the various CDNI interfaces. > " > Now the WG is formed you may want to adjust into something like: > " > It can be used to provide guidance to the CDNI WG about the > interconnection arrangements to be supported and to validate the > requirements of the various CDNI interfaces." >=20 >=20 > *** Introduction: > " > This document now merges input from [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and > [I-D.ma-cdni-publisher-use-cases]. > " > I suggest you remove this historical info in new revs, as the document > gradually matures towards WG material. >=20 >=20 > *** Introduction: > " > There are many possible combinations for the relationships between > the different parties (Network Service Provider (NSP), CDN Provider, > Content Service Provider (CSP) and End User) involved in end-to-end > content delivery. However, in the context of interconnecting CDNs > the key relationships are listed below. > o How the CSP interacts with the CDN provider, so that the CDN > delivers content in a manner compliant with CSP's distribution > policies. > o How the End User interacts with the CSP and one or more CDNs to > request and receive content. > o How the different CDN providers, operating their CDNs, interact > with one another to deliver the CSP's content to the End User > while continuing to enforce the CSP's distribution policies. > " > I don't quite see the relevance of this text in the use-case document, or > what point it is trying to bring across. > In particular, it is a little confusing sine it talks about interfaces > that are out of scope for CDNI without saying so. >=20 >=20 > *** 1.1 Terminology > o I expect that terminology across problem-statement, requirements and > use-case needs to be aligned and made probably moved into one document an= d > referred by all the others. > o "CDN Peering": I am not sure we need that term. > o "Recursive request routing/ Recursive request routing": see discussion > on the list about moving those terms in a single doc >=20 >=20 > *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems > I found it a little confusing to have the word "use cases" used here in > the introduction as well as later in teh individual use-cases. > How about something like "Rationale or Multi-CDN Systems"? >=20 >=20 > *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems > " > CSP-1 benefits because it only needs to make one business agreement > and one physical connection, with CDN Provider A, but its End Users > get a service quality as though it had also gone to the trouble of > making a business agreement with CDN Provider B. > " > s/as though it had /as though CSP-1 had / >=20 >=20 > *** 1.4. The Need for CDNI Standards > " > Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and an external CDN typically > cannot use them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different > solutions. > " > It is difficult to use existing interfaces because they are proprietary, > but also because they have often been designed as intra-CDN/intra-domain > interfaces, so they don't have all the right attributes. > Also, I think by "solutions" you mean "implementations". > So perhaps: > " > Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and have often been design for > intra-CDN/intra-domain operations. So an external CDN typically cannot us= e > them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different implementations. > " >=20 > " > Nevertheless, [I-D.bertrand-cdni-experiments] shows that > some level of CDN interconnection can be achieved experimentally > without standardized interfaces between the CDNs. The methods used > in these experiments are hardly usable in an operational context, > because they suffer from several limitations in terms of > functionalities, scalability, and security level. > " > s/ The methods used/However, the methods used/ >=20 >=20 > " > The aim of the CDNI standards work is therefore to overcome such > shortcomings; a full list of requirements is being developed in > [I-D.lefaucheur-cdni-requirements]. > " > s/the CDNI standards work/IETF CDNI WG solution/ >=20 >=20 > ***2.1. Geographic Extension > " > In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic > distribution that it can offer CSPs, without >=20 > o compromising the quality of delivery >=20 > o attracting transit and other network costs by serving from > geographically or topologically remote surrogates. > " > I think would read better as: > " > In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic > distribution that it can offer to its CSPs: >=20 > o without compromising the quality of delivery >=20 > o without incurring additional transit and other network costs that > would result from serving content from > geographically or topologically remote surrogates. > " >=20 > " > As an example, suppose a French CSP wants to distribute its TV > programs to End Users located in various countries in Europe and > North Africa. It asks a French CDN Provider to deliver the content. > The French CDN Provider's network only covers France, so it makes an > agreement with another CDN Provider that covers North Africa. > Overall, from the CSP's perspective the French CDN Provider provides > a CDN service for both France and North Africa. > " > The example initially mentions a required coverage of Europe+ North > Africa, but then seem to descrive a solution for a coverage of > France+North Africa. >=20 >=20 > *** 2.2. Region to Region Interconnection > I don't find the phrase "Region to Region" very distinctive versus the > previous "Geographic Extension". > I think the key differences here is that the different CDNs are operated > by different organization that are affiliates of the same company. > So how about "Inter-Affiliates Interconnection"? >=20 >=20 > *** 2.3. Nomadic Users > You may want to mention that this is often loosely referred to as "TV > everywhere". >=20 > " > The motivation in this case is to allow nomadic users to maintain access= , > rather than to allow all residents within a region access to the > content. > " > s/to maintain access/to maintain access with consistent quality of > experience/ >=20 > You may want to expand a little on which CDNs need to be interconnected t= o > address the use case (ie with CDN of "home NSP" interconnected to CDN of > visited NSP) possibly with a picture. >=20 >=20 > *** 2.4. Delivery Restrictions > "Hence, the exchange through the CDN interconnection of information > for controlling the footprint of the delivery is an important use > case. > " > To me this is not an additional use cases, this is a requirement that has > to be met in the use cases described earlier. In fact, the document mixes > use cases and requirements in a few places. > I would suggest that : > * you refer to things discussed in that section as "requirements" > * add a statement clarifying these requirements apply to the use > cases discussed in the document. >=20 > " > o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files > should be expunged from all CDN storage). > " > I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this > expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to deactivation > time. > I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring > that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? >=20 > " > The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which > may include quality of service rules that specify: > o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, > o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or > o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their > subscription levels. > " > I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc. > It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in phase > 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports > transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in > Initial scope. > The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to be > aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user > subscription level). >=20 >=20 > *** 3.1. Overload Handling and Dimensioning > " > This brings dimensioning savings to the CDNs as they can use the resource= s > of each other during their peaks of activity. > " > s/their peaks of activity./ their respective peaks of activity./ >=20 >=20 > *** 3.3. Branding Consideration > Again, this seems more of a requirement than a use case per-say. I > recommend you make that clear upfront in teh section (ie this is not an > extra use cases, but a requirement applying to use-cases discussed > before). > Also, is there a reason this applicable to only the use cases in section = 3 > and not section 2? > Anotehr option may be to move 2.4 and 3.3 under a separate heading > somewhere collecting key requirements applicable to the many use cases. >=20 >=20 > *** 4.1. Device and Network Technology Extension > Again I think some of the discussion assumes that there is some conversio= n > of quality done inside the CDNs (as opposed to different terminal > requesting different URIs). > I think we need to discuss whether this is going to come in Initial Scope > or not. >=20 >=20 >=20 > *** in Figure 2: > s/CDN Provider A/CDN Provider 1/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > *** co-authors. You have a long list of co-authors. As per current > practice, you would want to split that into "editors" and "contributors". From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Tue Jul 26 15:31:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B8E5E8005 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:31:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.461 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.461 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ap--ZxRFU7q for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E7E5E800F for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C33141701A; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:31:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB028.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970AF416EE9; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB028.mail.lan ([10.110.17.28]) with mapi; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:31:06 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" , "'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org'" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:31:12 -0400 Thread-Topic: Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxL2Y3Oaob/ziv2RnuT6qpbeo2/lwACQc+Q Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C023@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "'cdni@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:31:19 -0000 Hi Ray, I believe your inference is correct. The use case considers the possibil= ity of multiple bundles (e.g., a tv bundle and a mobile bundle). It could be that there also is a super-bundle, but the use case was there for the sce= nario that you described. Though, to Francois's point, they could be considere= d as independent pieces of content, rather than versions of the same conten= t? thanx. -- Kevin J. Ma =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:37 PM > To: 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org' > Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org' > Subject: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni- > use-cases-02 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I noticed that the new version of the use cases document now includes an > Asymetric Distribution use case in section 4.1 which describes a scenario > in which different 'versions' of the same content are delivered by > different CDNs. >=20 > Although not explicitely stated in the text, the last paragraph in this > section seems to strongly suggest that this use case should also work in > combination with the Nomadic scenario in which a device starts in one CDN > and switches to another (mid-stream). If this is indeed what the authors > suggest, I think it would be a good idea to more clearly state this, sinc= e > such a use case adds a significant number of requirements compared to the > 'regular' asymmetric distribution use case. >=20 > In the case of HLS for example, it would require different segments > belonging to the same content item to be able to be distributed across > CDNs. In turn this would require involved CDNs to no longer be able to > handle a bundle of segments belonging to the same content as if it were a > single file for distribution and management purposes. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Ray van Brandenburg >=20 >=20 > This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at > http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl Tue Jul 26 15:40:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FCC311E80C0 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.681 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.681 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n3zfScwmFABd for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailouta.tno.nl (mailouta.tno.nl [134.221.1.16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D50B11E80BD for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,272,1309730400"; d="scan'208";a="55428900" Received: from unknown (HELO mail.tno.nl) ([134.221.225.222]) by mailhost1a.tno.nl with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2011 00:40:12 +0200 Received: from EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl ([169.254.3.211]) by EXC-CASHUB03.tsn.tno.nl ([134.221.225.222]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:40:12 +0200 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: 'Kevin J Ma' , "'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AQHMS+O+lTJHC6HOQ0C9ceRLExVAfZT/MCXw Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:40:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C023@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C023@MAILR002.mail.lan> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "'cdni@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:40:15 -0000 Hi Kevin, > Though, to Francois's point, they could be considered as independent piec= es of content, rather than versions of the same content? Sure, that would be one way to look at it. But either way, in order to be a= ble to provide a seamless transfer as stated in the current document, the r= elationships between the pieces of content should either be known to both C= DNs, or be reflected in the associated manifest files. One could argue that= when different pieces of content are linked together through for example a= manifest file, that you can no longer talk about independent pieces of con= tent. Of course this depends on whether you the manifest file as the conten= t or the associated segments. Cheers, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]=20 Sent: woensdag 27 juli 2011 0:31 To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.or= g' Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org' Subject: RE: Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cas= es-02 Hi Ray, I believe your inference is correct. The use case considers the possibil= ity of multiple bundles (e.g., a tv bundle and a mobile bundle). It could be that there also is a super-bundle, but the use case was there for the sce= nario that you described. Though, to Francois's point, they could be considere= d as independent pieces of content, rather than versions of the same conten= t? thanx. -- Kevin J. Ma =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:37 PM > To: 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org' > Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org' > Subject: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in=20 > draft-bertrand-cdni- > use-cases-02 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I noticed that the new version of the use cases document now includes=20 > an Asymetric Distribution use case in section 4.1 which describes a=20 > scenario in which different 'versions' of the same content are=20 > delivered by different CDNs. >=20 > Although not explicitely stated in the text, the last paragraph in=20 > this section seems to strongly suggest that this use case should also=20 > work in combination with the Nomadic scenario in which a device starts=20 > in one CDN and switches to another (mid-stream). If this is indeed=20 > what the authors suggest, I think it would be a good idea to more=20 > clearly state this, since such a use case adds a significant number of=20 > requirements compared to the 'regular' asymmetric distribution use case. >=20 > In the case of HLS for example, it would require different segments=20 > belonging to the same content item to be able to be distributed across=20 > CDNs. In turn this would require involved CDNs to no longer be able=20 > to handle a bundle of segments belonging to the same content as if it=20 > were a single file for distribution and management purposes. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Ray van Brandenburg >=20 >=20 > This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at=20 > http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From zhouzp@huawei.com Tue Jul 26 19:10:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B4121F898F for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:10:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.266, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bx9A4f51B2LM for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0E411E8090 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOY00MUDZBH6I@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:09:18 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LOY000TMZBG2N@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:09:16 +0800 (CST) Received: from z54906a ([10.138.73.38]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LOY00771ZBBO5@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:09:16 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:09:11 +0800 From: zhouzhipeng In-reply-to: <4A1F0DD8-8E1F-4B7C-8542-AACE9470E1D3@cisco.com> To: 'Francois Le Faucheur' , 'Niven-Jenkins Ben' , 'Nabil N Bitar' , 'Bruce Davie' , 'Larry Peterson' Message-id: <00ef01cc4c02$2d20ed80$8762c880$@com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_lCcnkF8Fdp4fvXPX+jriWw)" Content-language: zh-cn Thread-index: AcxLy0tCZqCZre7XS0+i5IQKcNd2SwANoukg References: <794B5D26-6005-497B-B6C6-037FA14A7935@cisco.com> <4A1F0DD8-8E1F-4B7C-8542-AACE9470E1D3@cisco.com> Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIERlZmluaXRpb25zIGZvciAiUmVjdXJzaXZl?= =?gb2312?b?L0l0ZXJhdGl2ZSBDRE5JIHJlcXVlc3QJcm91dGluZyI=?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 02:10:36 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_lCcnkF8Fdp4fvXPX+jriWw) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_/PYvV873T9vbjXFDKEZgSQ)" --Boundary_(ID_/PYvV873T9vbjXFDKEZgSQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable May somebody provide use cases to help more understand on these two = specific terms. Zhipeng =20 =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C227=C8=D5 3:36 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Niven-Jenkins Ben; Nabil N Bitar; Bruce Davie; Larry = Peterson =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Definitions for "Recursive/Iterative CDNI = request routing" =20 Hi, Any thoughts on that before the WG meeting? Francois =20 On 8 Jul 2011, at 14:01, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: Folks, The definitions for the terms of "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request = routing" had been included in the cdni-requirements document until they move to a more suitable place. Could you guys agree on which document these definitions should migrate = into (problem-statement or framework) and keep a mental note to include it = there in the next rev? Thanks Francois PS: Here is the relevant excerpt from cdni-framework: " This also defined the following additional terms [Editor's Note: these definitions may be better located in another document such as the Problem Statement]: o Recursive CDNI request routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol (or use information cached from earlier similar queries) to find out how the Downstream CDN wants the request to be redirected, which allows the Upstream CDN to factor in the Downstream CDN response when redirecting the user agent. This approach is referred to as "recursive" CDNI request routing. Note that the Downstream CDN may elect to have the request redirected directly to a Surrogate inside the Downstream CDN, to the Request-Routing System of the Downstream CDN, to another CDN, or to any other system that the Downstream CDN sees as fit for handling the redirected request. o Iterative CDNI Request Routing: When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN can base its redirection purely on a local decision (and without attempting to take into account how the Downstream CDN may in turn redirect the user agent). In that case, the Upstream CDN redirects the request to the request routing system in the Downstream CDN, which in turn will decide how to redirect that request: this approach is referred to as "iterative" CDNI request routing. " Francois =20 =09 =20 Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 =09 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure = by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html =20 --Boundary_(ID_/PYvV873T9vbjXFDKEZgSQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

May somebody provide use cases to help more understand on these two = specific terms.

Zhipeng

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C227=C8=D5 3:36
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Niven-Jenkins Ben; Nabil N = Bitar; Bruce Davie; Larry Peterson
=B3=AD=CB=CD: = cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Definitions for = "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request = routing"

 

Hi,

Any thoughts on that before the WG = meeting?

Francois

 

On 8 Jul 2011, at 14:01, Francois = Le Faucheur wrote:



Folks,

The definitions for = the terms of "Recursive/Iterative CDNI request routing" had = been included in the cdni-requirements document until they move to a = more suitable place.
Could you guys agree on which document these = definitions should migrate into (problem-statement or framework) and = keep a mental note to include it there in the next = rev?

Thanks

Francois

PS: Here is the relevant = excerpt from cdni-framework:

"
 This also defined = the following additional terms [Editor's Note:
  these = definitions may be better located in another document such = as
  the Problem Statement]:

  o =  Recursive CDNI request routing: When an Upstream CDN elects = to
     redirect a request towards a = Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN = can
     query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing system via the CDNI
     Request = Routing protocol (or use information cached from = earlier
     similar queries) to find out = how the Downstream CDN wants = the
     request to be redirected, which = allows the Upstream CDN to factor
     in = the Downstream CDN response when redirecting the user = agent.
     This approach is referred to as = "recursive" CDNI request = routing.
     Note that the Downstream CDN = may elect to have the = request
     redirected directly to a = Surrogate inside the Downstream CDN, = to
     the Request-Routing System of the = Downstream CDN, to another CDN,
     or to = any other system that the Downstream CDN sees as fit = for
     handling the redirected = request.

  o  Iterative CDNI Request Routing: When = an Upstream CDN elects to
     redirect a = request towards a Downstream CDN, the Upstream CDN = can
     base its redirection purely on a = local decision (and without
     attempting = to take into account how the Downstream CDN may in = turn
     redirect the user agent).  In = that case, the Upstream CDN
     redirects = the request to the request routing system in = the
     Downstream CDN, which in turn will = decide how to redirect that
     request: = this approach is referred to as "iterative" CDNI = request
     routing.
"

Franco= is

 

<= /o:p>

 

 

=
Francois Le = Faucheur=
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate = Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 = 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 = 90

= Cisco Systems France=
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


<= /o:p>

=  Think before you print.

=
This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this = message.

Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 = responsabiit=A8=A6 limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm = Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de = 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: = Jean-Luc Michel Givone.

For corporate legal information go = to:
http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html=

 

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SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kvvh0ic960yz for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fldsmtpe02.verizon.com (fldsmtpe02.verizon.com [140.108.26.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32985E800C for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi01.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.143]) by fldsmtpe02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2011 13:53:38 +0000 From: "Bitar, Nabil N" To: Francois Le Faucheur , Niven-Jenkins Ben , "Bitar, Nabil N" , Bruce Davie , Larry Peterson X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,276,1309737600"; d="gif'147?jpg'147,145?scan'147,145,208,217,147,145";a="101779759" Received: from fldp1lumxc7hb04.verizon.com (HELO FLDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.75.83]) by fldsmtpi01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2011 13:53:38 +0000 Received: from FLDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com (166.68.75.87) by 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From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk Wed Jul 27 11:43:48 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9196111E80F5 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U1h8S9c6VZhl for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084EA21F8BA6 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15fb.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.21.251]) by mail6.atlas.pipex.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm953-00044B-Qm; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:43:43 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: <9C7F201C-E4B1-4C3C-9E75-A2ECA733C966@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:43:41 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96455E5E-5D70-491B-AD20-D4796BFAC4CD@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <828F91BD-2299-45C0-8D1C-193DAE705D02@cisco.com> <9C7F201C-E4B1-4C3C-9E75-A2ECA733C966@cisco.com> To: Francois Le Faucheur X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:43:48 -0000 Francois, Colleagues, My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into = the reference model. Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN may resolve into an actual server that will deliver = the content to the surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via = the Content Distribution Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which = to acquire content for a given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN = request router to resolve that hostname is just one possible way to = implement the hostname resolution and I believe calling it out = explicitly doesn't add anything except risking making the diagram more = confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) and implying a = particular implementation of something that is already declared out of = scope for CDNI. Ben On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: > Ben, Nabil, >=20 > Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of = cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Francois >=20 >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: Francois Le Faucheur >> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >> To: He Xiaoyan >> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request routing >>=20 >> Hi again, >>=20 >> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Francois, >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> Some further concerns. >>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via = HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface between = a delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>=20 >> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the = Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent = and the uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >> Does that help ? >>=20 >> -------- >> / \ >> | CSP | >> \ / >> -------- >> * >> * >> * /\ >> * / \ >> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >> | * * * | | | | * * * | >> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >> . \ / \ * / = . >> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >> . * = . >> . * Delivery = . >> . * = . >> . +------+ = . >> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >> | Agent| >> +------+ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be = considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN = directly interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>> -------- >>> / \ >>> | CSP | >>> \ / >>> -------- >>> * >>> * >>> * /\ >>> * / \ >>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>> . \ / \ * / = . >>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>> . * = . >>> . * Delivery = . >>> . * = . >>> . +------+ = . >>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>> | Agent| >>> +------+ >>> =A1=B0I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing = protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN = (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request = will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system = (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in = dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not be = excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of = mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>=20 >> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the = work on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying what functionality those need to support.=20 >>=20 >> Thank you. >>=20 >> Francois=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Thanks. >>> =20 >>> Best Regards >>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]=20= >>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request routing >>> =20 >>> Hello He, >>> =20 >>> You are right that these definitions have been written with handling = of enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition requests). >>> =20 >>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a = downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing = system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, in = that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request = Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across = Request Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the = downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and = that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request = Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of = course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular = (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the = iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in = this case, I think the current definitions actually work, because with = respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN = and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the definitions of = upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user = request). >>> =20 >>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>> =20 >>> Francois >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a = Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the = Downstream CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This = definition only covers requests initiated by users where upstream CDN = will query the downstream CDN for routing decision. There is another = case where recursive request routing is also utilized but not covered by = this definition in CDNI, i.e. In case of cache miss and hence dynamic = content acquisition invoked, for the content locate request issued by a = delivery node of downstream CDN, the downstream CDN can query the = upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my view, these are two = very similar scenarios with no essential difference on routing = procedure. >>> =20 >>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream = CDN, the direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to = upstream CDN for content locate requests in case of dynamic content = acquisition is not covered. >>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or = something else? >>> Thanks. >>> =20 >>> Best Regards >>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>> =20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CDNi mailing list >>> CDNi@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>> =20 >>> >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> >>> =20 >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>> =20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > >=20 > Francois Le Faucheur > Distinguished Engineer > Corporate Development > flefauch@cisco.com > Phone: +33 49 723 2619 > Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Cisco Systems France > Greenside > 400 Ave de Roumanille > 06410 Sophia Antipolis > France > Cisco.com >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > > Think before you print. >=20 > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >=20 > Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine = Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 = RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >=20 > For corporate legal information go to: > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 >=20 From kleung@cisco.com Wed Jul 27 12:40:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D9111E8075 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G0HNLYetyYhf for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8943911E8073 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=kleung@cisco.com; l=6640; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311795637; x=1313005237; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date: message-id:in-reply-to:references:from:to:cc; bh=S0XCwfAUEIjm6+ku9+tHWeU9Z9Wt+8aSCOaZPfu1cXo=; b=YGhnRdwPtjx7aRL2wTA0oNZQIlyAo0EXzH7qBHHMGdccyT6zNI3VxEfF KV5L0jnORGvs7ZLzMG+FHbdsUrtRrL0VfPRgyCE7YnC8eLDjXUsx8lZJm P/T9U5d8zjPkvwg1zq3blR8itjYDYUZ9oqgDmP4uW8kvB05OgLoKj35Qd w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuAAAMRoME6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbAA1AQEBAQIBFAEYCQpFBQcFAgEJEQQBAQsGIwEGARM7DggBAQUBFgwbl1yPSHeIfKJ5nmmFYV8Eh1eQLoty X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,278,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="7116716" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2011 19:40:36 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6RJeaUi015819; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:40:36 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:36 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 12:40:24 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72C8C5@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7B5DD5B9-27A5-46FA-8444-F6C5D0CB6619@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement Thread-Index: Acw9eT5T1xy9WaepQHaHJxVAkF/NxQPE5F2w References: <1F3DE948AD28CB4D905D51039D081AF62659902006@EMV64-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> <7B5DD5B9-27A5-46FA-8444-F6C5D0CB6619@cisco.com> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" , "Grant Watson" , "Niven-Jenkins Ben" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2011 19:40:36.0198 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E610860:01CC4C95] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:40:38 -0000 My comments below. -----Original Message----- From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 7:13 AM To: Grant Watson; Niven-Jenkins Ben Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Progressing the CDNI Problem Statement (Individual hat on) On 8 Jul 2011, at 15:26, wrote: > 1) Are the set of protocols (request routing, metadata, logging and control) listed in the problem statement sufficient to implement CDNI? Does the problem statement describe them in sufficient detail (bearing in mind that it is only a problem statement and not a framework/specification and so doesn't need to be exhaustive in its description)? >>>> I think this is sufficient, in terms of detail I think there is sufficient considering the context of the document. Agreed. One minor point on the editorial side: the charter has converged on a terminology of "interfaces" ("CDNI request-routing interface", "CDNI metadata interface", "CDNI logging interface" and "CDNI control interface"), so the problem statement needs to align to that of course. KL> Agree that coverage is sufficient. > 2) Is it necessary to retain the "Non-Goals for IETF" section as the scope of the work the WG will undertake (and the areas the WG will not undertake) is now documented in the WG's charter? >>>> I think that this is on the one hand repetition but perhaps it adds value to hold this (at least from a HL) in this document should it be used as a landing-point to understand CDNI? I could go either way. If you keep it in, there is a small theoretical risk that it becomes incorrect and in conflict with the charter in case the charter evolves in the future to expend/reduce its scope. On the positive side it provides a useful discussion on why "acquisition" is out of scope, which is the question that has been raised many times. My suggestion would be to: * remove the section and the list of excluded items (since it is in the charter)=20 * move the discussion at the end re acquisition to another part of the document (ie section 3.1). KL> I like having the description in the document. People typically don't reference the WG charter when reading specifications. Also charters do change over time. The section provides some context for consideration at the time of documentation. Perhaps rename section to "Out of Scope"? >=20 > 3) Is it necessary to retain the "Prioritizing the CDNI Work" section as the priority of the work of the WG is now documented in the WG's charter and milestones? >>>> I think that this can be removed. Agreed. The idea of "prioritizing the CDNI work" is also introduced in the cdni-requirements anyways. KL> I agree with removing section. Prioritization should belong in the requirements document. >=20 > 4) Is it necessary to retain the sections on related standardisation and research projects as the ongoing work in other bodies is always a "moving target" and attempting to keep an up to date description could be challenging and will almost certainly become out of date pretty rapidly and therefore it may not be worthwhile trying to capture that material within an RFC? >>>> Personally I don't see value in this section right now, others may do. Move to an appendix, as a snapshot of the state of affairs at a given point it time? Not essential to the document, but possibly useful background material to some. >=20 > If we want to point to specific work that could be reused or may be directly relevant to the work on CDNI in IETF then relevant references to work by other bodies is already captured in the Gap Analysis (section 6.3). >>>> Agreed. Agreed this part shoudl stay in. KL> I like having the references to other work in the spec. I agree with moving to appendix as reference of the snapshot of status. >=20 > 5) Are there any significant gaps or additional topics not present in the current document that people think need to be covered by additional sections/text prior to the document being ready for publication? >>>>> I don't have anything additional that is not already covered elsewhere, use-cases I-D for example. I am not aware of additional stuff needed either. KL> I don't see anything significant missing. Overall, the draft looks to be in good shape. Here are my comments on ver-02: 1. Spec consistency. "end users" should be "End Users" in document (e.g. Abstract, Intro sections) 2. Spec consistency. "CDN Interconnection" vs "CDN Interconnect". Currently used interchangebly. 3. Sect 1 Intro: Typos for Section 6 and Section 7 in the last sentence 4. Spec consistency. "Pre-Position" to "Pre-position" 5. Sect 1.1 Terminology: typo "indepedent" to "independent" 6. In context of CDNI ... "CDN acquires distribution metadata for content". Technically, this is "CDNI Metadata" for content. =20 7. "CSP's Service" to "CSP's service" 8. "Dedicated content applications" to "dedicated content applications" 9. "connectivity/services to Users" to "connectivity/services to End User" 10. Extra space in "a Logging System and a CDN control system ." 11. Should the term "Authoritative CDN" (reference later in sect 3.2) be included in section? I think it's valuable to have term that can be used by CDNI specs. 12. Should the term "Cascaded CDNs" be included? 13. "Iterative" and "Recursive" Request Routing should be included? In general, all terms relevant to CDNI should be located in one spec. 13. "user agent" to "User Agent" 14. Sect 3 CDNI Model Figure: CDNI protocol -> CDNI interface. An interface may have served by multiple protocols. 15. Typo "CDNI Metatdata" to "CDNI Metadata" 16. Missing Control to Surrogate interface, marked as out of scope (e.g., content removal) 17. Need Request Interface from dCDN Surrogate to uCDN Req-Routing (e.g. cache miss on dCDN)? 18. Sect 3.1 Candidate CDNI: "protocol" to "interface" 19. Typo "Pre-postioned" 20. Sect 3.2 Non-Goals: Editorial nit, should be "Internal CDN Protocols (i.e. protocols within one CDN)" 21. Sects 4.3-4.6: "API" to "Interface" 22. Sect 4.4 CDNI Metadata: "element of the Metadata protocol" to "element of the CDNI Metadata protocol" 23. Sect 4.6 CDNI Control: "Allow the downstream CDN to communicate information about its delivery capabilities, resources and policies". Is this part of Request Routing Interface? These are parameters that are needed by Request Routing System. 24. Sect 6.3 Gap Analysis: Remove or update "" bullet. Kent From kleung@cisco.com Wed Jul 27 13:53:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7222B11E8092 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:53:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAawHlONxAJu for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E9A11E8082 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:53:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=kleung@cisco.com; l=22772; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311799997; x=1313009597; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date: message-id:in-reply-to:references:from:to:cc; bh=0EeNIt5I/iUu8d5eGUzWhrr7V1lIYptDU7Wa6PsfB7Y=; b=RZH2FDAsBoX1v4WHQJn8owS7ArLM/FgVQP/1dhK451BwPvg6cx1JzRnW uBbjoxpw59Qd2pGLIzrXh2SxNlQPRteuSwK98Qc+lO+HQJwRXpKjyiGxw zJa4SenrbUOaH3CiiP05B597YGaSTr4zV8xWJ9oL0ipo9FgTbjrm1U98K E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuQAAKx5ME6rRDoH/2dsb2JhbAA0AQEBAQIBAQEBCgcBFA0EQAYFBQcDAgIBBwIRAQIBAQEBAgIGBiMBAgICAQESDAwjAwsIAQEFARYMFAeDaUaTLY5YcHeIfASjCI0jkTgCgSmEBjBfBIdXkC6Lcg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,278,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="7136601" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2011 20:53:16 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6RKrFL3008260; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:53:15 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:53:13 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:53:12 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72C924@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <96455E5E-5D70-491B-AD20-D4796BFAC4CD@niven-jenkins.co.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? Thread-Index: AcxMjU10jm3rsqiNSwO+Iw+UU/C3WQACNptA References: <828F91BD-2299-45C0-8D1C-193DAE705D02@cisco.com><9C7F201C-E4B1-4C3C-9E75-A2ECA733C966@cisco.com> <96455E5E-5D70-491B-AD20-D4796BFAC4CD@niven-jenkins.co.uk> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Ben Niven-Jenkins" , "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2011 20:53:13.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[33C79290:01CC4C9F] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? 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(localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754F411E817A for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:37:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.678 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5BeonCedd+cO for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga04-in.huawei.com (szxga04-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D28F21F8B05 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP000H0MY0U4T@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:36:30 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP000KKDY0ULT@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:36:30 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.242.54]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LP0001FNY0TYI@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:36:30 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:36:28 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72C924@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> To: "'Kent Leung (kleung)'" , 'Ben Niven-Jenkins' , "'Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)'" Message-id: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcxMjU10jm3rsqiNSwO+Iw+UU/C3WQACNptAAA5XETA= Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIFVwZGF0aW5nIFJlZiBNb2RlbCBwaWN0dXJl?= =?gb2312?b?IGluIGNkbmktcHJvYmxlbS1zdGF0ZW1lbnQ/?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 03:37:01 -0000 Hi all, I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to cover = the option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The current figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content = acquisition. To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative = entities, this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope of = CDNI. Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] = =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Leung (kleung) =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:53 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out of scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without the = need to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The content acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there is = an interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing = function. IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such an interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the architecture should be complete. Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to = differentiate from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. Kent -----Original Message----- From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Ben Niven-Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? Francois, Colleagues, My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into the reference model. Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given Origin/UpstreamCDN = may resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content = Distribution Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for a given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve that hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname resolution = and I believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking = making the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) and implying a particular implementation of something that is already = declared out of scope for CDNI. Ben On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: > Ben, Nabil, >=20 > Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Francois >=20 >=20 > Begin forwarded message: >=20 >> From: Francois Le Faucheur >> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >> To: He Xiaoyan >> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative=20 >> request routing >>=20 >> Hi again, >>=20 >> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Francois, >>> Thanks for your reply. >>> Some further concerns. >>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like a regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface between = a delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>=20 >> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >> Does that help ? >>=20 >> -------- >> / \ >> | CSP | >> \ / >> -------- >> * >> * >> * /\ >> * / \ >> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >> | * * * | | | | * * * | >> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * = * | . >> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >> . \ / \ * / = . >> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >> . * = . >> . * Delivery = . >> . * = . >> . +------+ = . >> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >> | Agent| >> +------+ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN = directly interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>> -------- >>> / \ >>> | CSP | >>> \ / >>> -------- >>> * >>> * >>> * /\ >>> * / \ >>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| = * * | . >>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>> . \ / \ * / = . >>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>> . * = . >>> . * Delivery = . >>> . * = . >>> . +------+ = . >>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>> | Agent| >>> +------+ =A1=B0I = am=20 >>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). ie = I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its = inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a = regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not be excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>=20 >> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the = work on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at identifying = what functionality those need to support.=20 >>=20 >> Thank you. >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>=20 >>> Thanks. >>> =20 >>> Best Regards >>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request=20 >>> routing >>> =20 >>> Hello He, >>> =20 >>> You are right that these definitions have been written with handling = of enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition requests). >>> =20 >>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, in that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg via = a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a = 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions actually = work, because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the = definitions of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user request). >>> =20 >>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>> =20 >>> Francois >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards a Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the = Downstream CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition only = covers requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the downstream = CDN for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request = routing is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case of cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the = downstream CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my = view, these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on = routing procedure. >>> =20 >>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream CDN, = the direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream CDN = for content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not covered. >>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or something else? >>> Thanks. >>> =20 >>> Best Regards >>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>> =20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CDNi mailing list >>> CDNi@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>> =20 >>> >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> >>> =20 >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient = (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>> =20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient = (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > >=20 > Francois Le Faucheur > Distinguished Engineer > Corporate Development > flefauch@cisco.com > Phone: +33 49 723 2619 > Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Cisco Systems France > Greenside > 400 Ave de Roumanille > 06410 Sophia Antipolis > France > Cisco.com >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > > Think before you print. >=20 > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient = (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply email and delete all copies of this message. >=20 > Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >=20 > For corporate legal information go to: > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk Wed Jul 27 21:03:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5441A21F86EA for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:03:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.758 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.758 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u7Jc377FSRIa for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C37E21F871E for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [70.25.120.2] (helo=[10.255.254.169]) by mail11.atlas.pipex.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QmHo8-0007x0-4I; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:03:05 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:02:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> To: He Xiaoyan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBpY3R1cmUg?= =?utf-8?q?in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 04:03:08 -0000 Don't confuse the CDNI Request Routing interface (which is for = communicating information between the request routing systems in = different CDNs) with the "regular" request routing performed by CDNs = today (and which would still exist in a world where CDNI is deployed). The CDNI Metadata may include an Origin hostname that ultimately = resolves to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN but that = does not involve the CDNI Request Routing interface. I see no need for a downstream CDN Surrogate to make use of the CDNI = Request Routing interface for acquisition and the proposed change to the = reference model is not across the CDNI Request Routing interface but = between the downstream CDN Surrogate and the "regular" request routing = function of the upstream CDN (and would have been marked out of scope = for CDNI). Ben On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:36, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi all, > I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to = cover the > option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The = current > figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI > Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content = acquisition. > To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative = entities, > this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope of = CDNI. >=20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Leung > (kleung) > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:53 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) > =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out of > scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without the = need > to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The content > acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 >=20 > My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and > interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there is = an > interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing = function. > IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such = an > interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the > architecture should be complete. >=20 > Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to = differentiate > from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. >=20 > Kent >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ben > Niven-Jenkins > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM > To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) > Cc: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > Francois, Colleagues, >=20 > My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like > that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into the > reference model. >=20 > Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other > Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN may > resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the > surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content = Distribution > Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for = a > given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve = that > hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname resolution = and I > believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking = making > the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) = and > implying a particular implementation of something that is already = declared > out of scope for CDNI. >=20 > Ben >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: >=20 >> Ben, Nabil, >>=20 >> Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of > cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>=20 >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >>> From: Francois Le Faucheur >>> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >>> To: He Xiaoyan >>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative=20 >>> request routing >>>=20 >>> Hi again, >>>=20 >>> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi Francois, >>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>> Some further concerns. >>>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue > its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly > by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like a > regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface between = a > delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>>=20 >>> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the > Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same > interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the > uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >>> Does that help ? >>>=20 >>> -------- >>> / \ >>> | CSP | >>> \ / >>> -------- >>> * >>> * >>> * /\ >>> * / \ >>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >>> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >>> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>> . \ / \ * / = . >>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>> . * = . >>> . * Delivery = . >>> . * = . >>> . +------+ = . >>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>> | Agent| >>> +------+ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be > considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN = directly > interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>>> -------- >>>> / \ >>>> | CSP | >>>> \ / >>>> -------- >>>> * >>>> * >>>> * /\ >>>> * / \ >>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . * Delivery = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . +------+ = . >>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>> | Agent| >>>> +------+ =A1=B0I = am=20 >>>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that > stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). ie = I'd > picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its = inter-CDN > acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the > upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a = regular > CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in > dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not = be > excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of > mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>>=20 >>> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the = work > on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying what > functionality those need to support.=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you. >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Thanks. >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards >>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request=20 >>>> routing >>>>=20 >>>> Hello He, >>>>=20 >>>> You are right that these definitions have been written with = handling of > enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition > requests). >>>>=20 >>>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a > downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing > system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, = in > that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the > inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a > HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing > protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing > systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will > issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled > directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP = or > DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN = (CDN1) > decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to = a 3rd > CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply = across > these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions actually = work, > because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the > upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the = definitions > of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user > request). >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>>>=20 >>>> Francois >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing > in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards = a > Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing > system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the = Downstream > CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition = only covers > requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the = downstream CDN > for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request = routing > is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case of > cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content > locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the = downstream > CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my = view, > these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on = routing > procedure. >>>>=20 >>>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers > the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream CDN, = the > direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream CDN = for > content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not > covered. >>>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or > something else? >>>> Thanks. >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards >>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CDNi mailing list >>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>> Corporate Development >>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France >>>> Greenside >>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>> France >>>> Cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> Think before you print. >>>>=20 >>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>=20 >>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by = reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les = Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >=20 From kleung@cisco.com Wed Jul 27 21:24:41 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C7821F8B6F for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 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text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 21:24:37 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CA8E@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?UTF-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbQ0ROaV0gVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBp?= =?UTF-8?B?Y3R1cmUgaW4gY2RuaS1wcm9ibGVtLXN0YXRlbWVudD8=?= Thread-Index: AcxM20M7Q1LnhbUYTu67g+A9E/UdHwAAah5g References: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Ben Niven-Jenkins" , "He Xiaoyan" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 04:24:38.0503 (UTC) FILETIME=[43740770:01CC4CDE] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBpY3R1cmUg?= =?utf-8?q?in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues 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cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F88F21F856D for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:01:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.095, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZWLcqLo6iYw for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8B921F84F5 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [70.25.120.2] (helo=[10.255.254.169]) by mail5.atlas.pipex.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QmIia-00032x-7d; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:01:13 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CA8E@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:00:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CA8E@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBpY3R1cmUg?= =?utf-8?q?in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:01:17 -0000 The original comment that initiated the proposal to show the interface = between a downstream CDN surrogate and upstream CDN's request routing = function was: "The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, in that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg via = a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a = 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions actually = work, because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the = definitions of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user request)." where the key phrase is "(CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition = request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN = Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN = scenario." which is clearly referring to the "regular" request routing in the = upstream CDN. I don't believe there is a need to document that as it just confuses = what is already a complex diagram while adding no value to the reference = model (and IMO using regular request routing like that is trivially = obvious).=20 I don't see a need for downstream CDN surrogates to make use of the CDNI = Request Routing interface for acquisition (and therefore I don;t see any = need to acknowledge/document the existence of such an interface). If you = or someone else do see a need, can you describe a use case that would = illustrate why it is needed? On 28 Jul 2011, at 05:24, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote: > My understanding is that the proposed change is adding the interface = between the dCDN Surrogate and the uCDN CDNI Request Routing function = (i.e., not normal request routing). Is there a reason this should be = disallowed? I agree that there are implications for using this method = for content distribution between CDNs. But I think it's OK to just = acknowledge such interface exists and mark as out of scope for now.=20 >=20 > Kent >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:03 PM > To: He Xiaoyan > Cc: Kent Leung (kleung); Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch); = cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > Don't confuse the CDNI Request Routing interface (which is for = communicating information between the request routing systems in = different CDNs) with the "regular" request routing performed by CDNs = today (and which would still exist in a world where CDNI is deployed). >=20 > The CDNI Metadata may include an Origin hostname that ultimately = resolves to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN but that = does not involve the CDNI Request Routing interface. >=20 > I see no need for a downstream CDN Surrogate to make use of the CDNI = Request Routing interface for acquisition and the proposed change to the = reference model is not across the CDNI Request Routing interface but = between the downstream CDN Surrogate and the "regular" request routing = function of the upstream CDN (and would have been marked out of scope = for CDNI). >=20 > Ben >=20 > On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:36, He Xiaoyan wrote: >=20 >> Hi all, >> I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to = cover the >> option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The = current >> figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI >> Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content = acquisition. >> To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative = entities, >> this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope = of CDNI. >>=20 >> Best Regards >> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Kent Leung >> (kleung) >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 4:53 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch) >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: cdni@ietf.org >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out of >> scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without = the need >> to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The = content >> acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 >>=20 >> My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and >> interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there = is an >> interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing = function. >> IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such = an >> interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the >> architecture should be complete. >>=20 >> Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to = differentiate >> from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. >>=20 >> Kent >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ben >> Niven-Jenkins >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM >> To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> Francois, Colleagues, >>=20 >> My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like >> that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into = the >> reference model. >>=20 >> Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other >> Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN may >> resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the >> surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content = Distribution >> Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for = a >> given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve = that >> hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname = resolution and I >> believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking = making >> the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) = and >> implying a particular implementation of something that is already = declared >> out of scope for CDNI. >>=20 >> Ben >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: >>=20 >>> Ben, Nabil, >>>=20 >>> Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of >> cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Begin forwarded message: >>>=20 >>>> From: Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >>>> To: He Xiaoyan >>>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative=20 >>>> request routing >>>>=20 >>>> Hi again, >>>>=20 >>>> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Francois, >>>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>>> Some further concerns. >>>>> =E2=80=9Cie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN = (CDN2) will issue >> its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly >> by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like a >> regular CDN scenario.=E2=80=9D >>>>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface = between a >> delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>>>=20 >>>> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the >> Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same >> interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the >> uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >>>> Does that help ? >>>>=20 >>>> -------- >>>> / \ >>>> | CSP | >>>> \ / >>>> -------- >>>> * >>>> * >>>> * /\ >>>> * / \ >>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>>> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>>> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . * Delivery = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . +------+ = . >>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>> | Agent| >>>> +------+ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> And I=E2=80=99m not sure if any additional security issues need to = be >> considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN = directly >> interact with the upstream CDN=E2=80=99s RR. >>>>> -------- >>>>> / \ >>>>> | CSP | >>>>> \ / >>>>> -------- >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> * /\ >>>>> * / \ >>>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>>>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>>>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . * Delivery = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . +------+ = . >>>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>>> | Agent| >>>>> +------+ =E2=80=9C= I am=20 >>>>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that >> stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). = ie I'd >> picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its = inter-CDN >> acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the >> upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a = regular >> CDN scenario.=E2=80=9D >>>>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked = in >> dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not = be >> excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of >> mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>>>=20 >>>> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of = the work >> on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying what >> functionality those need to support.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you. >>>>=20 >>>> Francois >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2011=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=889=E6=97= =A5 0:19 >>>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: He Xiaoyan >>>>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request=20 >>>>> routing >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello He, >>>>>=20 >>>>> You are right that these definitions have been written with = handling of >> enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition >> requests). >>>>>=20 >>>>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a >> downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing >> system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, = in >> that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). = Since the >> inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a >> HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing >> protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing >> systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will >> issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled >> directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP = or >> DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN = (CDN1) >> decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request = to a 3rd >> CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply = across >> these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions = actually work, >> because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is = the >> upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the = definitions >> of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user >> request). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing >> in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>>>> 1) =E2=80=9CWhen an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request = towards a >> Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request = Routing >> system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the = Downstream >> CDN wants the request to be redirected =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D This = definition only covers >> requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the = downstream CDN >> for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request = routing >> is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case of >> cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content >> locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the = downstream >> CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my = view, >> these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on = routing >> procedure. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers >> the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream = CDN, the >> direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream = CDN for >> content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not >> covered. >>>>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or >> something else? >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CDNi mailing list >>>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>>> Corporate Development >>>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France >>>>> Greenside >>>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>>> France >>>>> Cisco.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>> Think before you print. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for = the sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 =C3=A0 responsabiit=C3=A9 = limit=C3=A9e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =E2=80=93 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =E2=82=AC, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur = de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>>=20 >>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>> Corporate Development >>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France >>>> Greenside >>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>> France >>>> Cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>> Think before you print. >>>>=20 >>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 =C3=A0 responsabiit=C3=A9 = limit=C3=A9e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =E2=80=93 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =E2=82=AC, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur = de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>=20 >>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=C3=A9t=C3=A9 =C3=A0 responsabiit=C3=A9 = limit=C3=A9e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =E2=80=93 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =E2=82=AC, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur = de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >=20 From kleung@cisco.com Wed Jul 27 22:21:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 22:21:14 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CACB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?UTF-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbQ0ROaV0gVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBp?= =?UTF-8?B?Y3R1cmUgaW4gY2RuaS1wcm9ibGVtLXN0YXRlbWVudD8=?= Thread-Index: AcxM42J0VXj6KzI4Q9Od5VmT5bPnbwAAWUqQ References: <015001cc4cd7$89679b90$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CA8E@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Ben Niven-Jenkins" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 05:21:15.0791 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C6509F0:01CC4CE6] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBpY3R1cmUg?= =?utf-8?q?in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 05:21:18 -0000 DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBCZW4gTml2ZW4tSmVua2lucyBb bWFpbHRvOmJlbkBuaXZlbi1qZW5raW5zLmNvLnVrXSANClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSnVseSAy NywgMjAxMSAxMDowMSBQTQ0KVG86IEtlbnQgTGV1bmcgKGtsZXVuZykNCkNjOiBIZSBYaWFveWFu OyBGcmFuY29pcyBMZSBGYXVjaGV1ciAoZmxlZmF1Y2gpOyBjZG5pQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTog562U5aSNOiBbQ0ROaV0gVXBkYXRpbmcgUmVmIE1vZGVsIHBpY3R1cmUgaW4gY2RuaS1w cm9ibGVtLXN0YXRlbWVudD8NCg0KVGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIGNvbW1lbnQgdGhhdCBpbml0aWF0ZWQg dGhlIHByb3Bvc2FsIHRvIHNob3cgdGhlIGludGVyZmFjZSBiZXR3ZWVuIGEgZG93bnN0cmVhbSBD RE4gc3Vycm9nYXRlIGFuZCB1cHN0cmVhbSBDRE4ncyByZXF1ZXN0IHJvdXRpbmcgZnVuY3Rpb24g d2FzOg0KDQoiVGhlIGxvZ2ljIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGludGVyLUNETiBhY3F1aXNpdGlvbiByZXF1 ZXN0IChpc3N1ZWQgYnkgYQ0KZG93bnN0cmVhbSBDRE4gY2FjaGUgYW5kIHBvaW50aW5nIHRvIHRo 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 813F321F873E for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:39:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.269 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.269 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.634, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5DqNeOJlICf1 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2F021F86B6 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP100MPW93QQF@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:35:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP100CS993QY5@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:35:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.242.54]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LP1004CE93PKG@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:35:49 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:35:49 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: <86CF7FF5-9B10-4847-802B-B617C8D6E2CB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> To: 'Ben Niven-Jenkins' Message-id: <016101cc4cf8$f8d91b40$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcxM2191qAosr168QR+ZbTmdFOFJUgAGcbig Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogIFVwZGF0aW5nIFJlZiBNb2RlbCBw?= =?gb2312?b?aWN0dXJlIGluIGNkbmktcHJvYmxlbS1zdGF0ZW1lbnQ/?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:39:08 -0000 Hi Ben and all, In my proposal a hostname should also be provided to the downstream CDN = to acquire content, I think at this point, we do not have any conflict. What I'm trying to say is the hostname provided to the downstream CDN = should always point to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN. It's = up to the Request Routing function of the upstream CDN to decide the next hop = for the content acquisition of the downstream CDN, e.g. A storage server of = the Upstream CDN or the origin server of the CP, or the Request Routing = function of the 3rd cascaded CDN. Furthermore, as the "regular" request routing mechanisms used intra CDNs = may be different, e.g. some CDNs utilizing DNS, whilst others utilizing HTTP GET. Though it is very similar to a "regular" request routing performed = by CDNs today, but as components from different CDNs involved, it should be specified or at least the mechanisms (DNS, HTTP) used across these CDNs should be specified to interconnect. Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 12:03 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan =B3=AD=CB=CD: 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)'; cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? Don't confuse the CDNI Request Routing interface (which is for = communicating information between the request routing systems in different CDNs) with = the "regular" request routing performed by CDNs today (and which would still exist in a world where CDNI is deployed). The CDNI Metadata may include an Origin hostname that ultimately = resolves to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN but that does not = involve the CDNI Request Routing interface. I see no need for a downstream CDN Surrogate to make use of the CDNI = Request Routing interface for acquisition and the proposed change to the = reference model is not across the CDNI Request Routing interface but between the downstream CDN Surrogate and the "regular" request routing function of = the upstream CDN (and would have been marked out of scope for CDNI). Ben On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:36, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi all, > I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to = cover the > option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The = current > figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI > Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content acquisition. > To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative = entities, > this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope of CDNI. >=20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Leung > (kleung) > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:53 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) > =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out of > scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without the need > to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The content > acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 >=20 > My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and > interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there is = an > interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing function. > IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such = an > interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the > architecture should be complete. >=20 > Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to differentiate > from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. >=20 > Kent >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ben > Niven-Jenkins > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM > To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) > Cc: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > Francois, Colleagues, >=20 > My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like > that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into the > reference model. >=20 > Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other > Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN may > resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the > surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content Distribution > Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for = a > given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve = that > hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname resolution = and I > believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking making > the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) = and > implying a particular implementation of something that is already = declared > out of scope for CDNI. >=20 > Ben >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: >=20 >> Ben, Nabil, >>=20 >> Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of > cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>=20 >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >>> From: Francois Le Faucheur >>> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >>> To: He Xiaoyan >>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative=20 >>> request routing >>>=20 >>> Hi again, >>>=20 >>> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi Francois, >>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>> Some further concerns. >>>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue > its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly > by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like a > regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface between = a > delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>>=20 >>> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the > Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same > interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the > uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >>> Does that help ? >>>=20 >>> -------- >>> / \ >>> | CSP | >>> \ / >>> -------- >>> * >>> * >>> * /\ >>> * / \ >>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >>> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * = * | . >>> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >>> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >>> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>> . \ / \ * / = . >>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>> . * = . >>> . * Delivery = . >>> . * = . >>> . +------+ = . >>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>> | Agent| >>> +------+ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be > considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN directly > interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>>> -------- >>>> / \ >>>> | CSP | >>>> \ / >>>> -------- >>>> * >>>> * >>>> * /\ >>>> * / \ >>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >>>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| = * * | . >>>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . * Delivery = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . +------+ = . >>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>> | Agent| >>>> +------+ =A1=B0I = am=20 >>>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that > stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). ie = I'd > picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN > acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the > upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular > CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked in > dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not = be > excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of > mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>>=20 >>> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of the work > on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying what > functionality those need to support.=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you. >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Thanks. >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards >>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request=20 >>>> routing >>>>=20 >>>> Hello He, >>>>=20 >>>> You are right that these definitions have been written with = handling of > enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition > requests). >>>>=20 >>>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a > downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing > system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, = in > that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the > inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a > HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing > protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing > systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will > issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled > directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP = or > DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN = (CDN1) > decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to = a 3rd > CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply = across > these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions actually work, > because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the > upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the definitions > of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user > request). >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>>>=20 >>>> Francois >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing > in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards = a > Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request Routing > system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the Downstream > CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition = only covers > requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the = downstream CDN > for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request routing > is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case of > cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content > locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the = downstream > CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my view, > these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on routing > procedure. >>>>=20 >>>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers > the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream CDN, = the > direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream CDN = for > content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not > covered. >>>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or > something else? >>>> Thanks. >>>>=20 >>>> Best Regards >>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> CDNi mailing list >>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>> Corporate Development >>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France >>>> Greenside >>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>> France >>>> Cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> Think before you print. >>>>=20 >>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>=20 >>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole > use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or > authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender by reply > email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille > Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, > Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la > publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >=20 From hexiaoyan@huawei.com Thu Jul 28 00:54:07 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B9E21F8C1F for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.697 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.662, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1htRCXwneaLJ for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40EC121F8C1E for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP100F579W1CO@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:52:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP1001TZ9W0D1@szxga05-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:52:48 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.242.54]) by szxml06-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LP1006LG9VZEL@szxml06-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:52:48 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:52:47 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CACB@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> To: "'Kent Leung (kleung)'" , 'Ben Niven-Jenkins' Message-id: <016201cc4cfb$57e5c500$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcxM42J0VXj6KzI4Q9Od5VmT5bPnbwAAWUqQAAV9+NA= Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogIFVwZGF0aW5nIFJlZiBNb2RlbCBw?= =?gb2312?b?aWN0dXJlIGluIGNkbmktcHJvYmxlbS1zdGF0ZW1lbnQ/?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:54:07 -0000 Hi Kent et all, Respond via another email of this thread. Further comments are welcomed. Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 13:21 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins =B3=AD=CB=CD: He Xiaoyan; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch); cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? -----Original Message----- From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:01 PM To: Kent Leung (kleung) Cc: He Xiaoyan; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch); cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? The original comment that initiated the proposal to show the interface between a downstream CDN surrogate and upstream CDN's request routing function was: "The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, in that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). Since = the inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg via = a HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a = 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions actually = work, because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is the upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the = definitions of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user request)." where the key phrase is "(CDN2) will issue its inter-CDN acquisition = request and that request will be handled directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a regular CDN scenario." which is clearly referring to the "regular" request routing in the = upstream CDN. KL> OK. I see why you've interpreted that way. I saw "(CDN2) will = issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled = directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1)" and then later, " if = the upstream CDN (CDN1) decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request to a 3rd CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply across these CDNs". So I interpreted that CDN2 = sent request to CDN1 which can decide to redirect to CDN3 (as the 3rd CDN). = This would require CDN1's CDNI Request Routing function to be involved. I've assumed this is the cascaded scenario. We'll let Susan clarify to avoid mis-interpretations. :) Kent From eburger-l@standardstrack.com Thu Jul 28 06:41:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8418121F85A7 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:41:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xho9TZz-2SYw for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [74.124.194.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643AA21F8640 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=standardstrack.com; h=Received:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-Source:X-Source-Args:X-Source-Dir; b=vUyzLiMS0ObGwTKkNJFDkiIVilP+Sr87yaw8H1agTqK9zn8hjGl1THLxjT6li2V07JYKZDorM3xQ8xDP/7rFrHqRLhpM1wDQyOUHjCm/BinjzpS3YO5T3t2LEQ5xTbym; Received: from dhcp-63da.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.99.218]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QmQqG-0005Rh-Ts; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:41:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Eric Burger In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:41:33 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97A1D17E-3EF2-435D-8CCD-62E31E7441B2@standardstrack.com> References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> To: Bruce Davie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?utf-8?q?r=09draft-davie-cdni-framework-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:41:39 -0000 Does that mean that this document is for discussion purposes, but we = have no plans of publishing it as an RFC? That impacts the level of = review. For the former, it gives us a framework to say, "Yes, this is = possible." For the latter, it means we need to dig out all of the nits. On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Bruce Davie wrote: > We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the = requirements document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by = one comment at the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these = pieces fit together"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It = isn't a spec for any particular interface, it doesn't even set the = requirements for any interface. It tries to show (by examples and = deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces work together.=20 From eburger-l@standardstrack.com Thu Jul 28 06:42:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B35621F8640 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:42:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.373 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.373 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hQZILtTo-YmO for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biz104.inmotionhosting.com (biz104.inmotionhosting.com [74.124.194.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62A6821F85A7 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:42:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=standardstrack.com; h=Received:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:X-Mailer:X-Source:X-Source-Args:X-Source-Dir; b=WoG+PTm/4b08xaTphwjHyLcneLkOxFSCwp7r3kmb4+h57nJ6ULpA1qNuQUSgW+CBCmFr4HDFGFFBtCKYbWPoZhNTtiaLRPMZ6GcDdIzB7359pp4as7loqWJsxCjPjJ6f; Received: from dhcp-63da.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.99.218]) by biz104.inmotionhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QmQr7-0005Rh-6Y; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:42:29 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Eric Burger In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:42:28 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7E299937-1255-4409-B46D-648746F9B5C3@standardstrack.com> References: <73B09441-5D82-4CA6-B665-1F7072D654BF@verivue.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518BF04CAE@MAILR002.mail.lan> To: "Peterson, Larry" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - biz104.inmotionhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - standardstrack.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] new Internet Draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:42:32 -0000 Just FYI, that is a really, really bad example. On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Peterson, Larry wrote: >> In sections 5.x.1, i just wanted to clarify if the exchange of IP >> prefixes is just an example of a method for determining geo-footprint, >> or is there a more fundamental requirement for IP prefix information? > > Right. It's an example. From bdavie@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 07:07:18 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E6F21F8B2C for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:07:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.228, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L60vJq3I3wGc for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C63321F8C7A for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=bdavie@cisco.com; l=1482; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311862037; x=1313071637; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date: to; bh=5E5T8CAq8PjaOYspncMjMIMk+5VtoFCw6rK58zGBYYA=; b=jPUYWs2ErQ2BI7OO73ItBzqBS6CXajcnxhFOYCAhQY/y+D3lSJP8/oS0 RjZ8fmGh4Os8Aji3ySIJW3GbhyruKnOdmUmG9vzOr9id5MBGuhoEPnJgc UMeGiwjrenvYetaC8UTOtUOZeSuc7GHzFkemSwfjyrk05UrKO0R2YUKyP o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAAdsMU6rRDoH/2dsb2JhbAA0AQEBAQIBAQEBEQErQwIFDAoCDgo6FFEGARcnpkhod4h8o1eeWYViXwSSeYUHi3k X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,282,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="7387923" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 14:07:16 +0000 Received: from [10.21.106.161] (sjc-vpnasa-670.cisco.com [10.21.106.161]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SE7Dhg011532; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:07:14 GMT References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> <97A1D17E-3EF2-435D-8CCD-62E31E7441B2@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <97A1D17E-3EF2-435D-8CCD-62E31E7441B2@standardstrack.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8J3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <24E1BBE3-2145-4CD0-85D2-42C73385CCA4@cisco.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8J3) From: Bruce Davie Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:08:58 -0400 To: Eric Burger Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?utf-8?q?r=09draft-davie-cdni-framework-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:07:18 -0000 Eric, One of the planned deliverables for the WG is a Framework, which would be pu= blished as an RFC. It would be an informational RFC. I hope that this draft m= ight be a starting point for such an RFC. The WG will have to comment on tha= t. However, I think all of the following would apply to the Framework: not a= requirements doc (we have one of those) and not an interface spec (they are= listed as separate deliverables of the WG). I hope we can talk today about what should and should not be in the Framewor= k. Bruce On Jul 28, 2011, at 9:41 AM, Eric Burger wrot= e: > Does that mean that this document is for discussion purposes, but we have n= o plans of publishing it as an RFC? That impacts the level of review. For th= e former, it gives us a framework to say, "Yes, this is possible." For the l= atter, it means we need to dig out all of the nits. >=20 > On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Bruce Davie wrote: >=20 >> We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the requirement= s document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by one comment at t= he BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these pieces fit together"= ? So the framework tries to answer that question. It isn't a spec for any pa= rticular interface, it doesn't even set the requirements for any interface. I= t tries to show (by examples and deployment scenarios mostly) how the pieces= work together.=20 >=20 From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com Thu Jul 28 07:18:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F8021F8B24 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:18:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.625, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g5+k0z-KI6Z9 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cable.comcast.com (copdcimo01.potomac.co.ndcwest.comcast.net [76.96.32.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE3721F86C4 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ([24.40.55.40]) by copdcimo01.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP with TLS id 5503630.46526070; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:23:04 -0600 Received: from PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::a5b0:e5c4:df1b:2367]) by pacdcexhub03.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::d1dd:b302:b617:3755%11]) with mapi id 14.01.0289.001; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:18:15 -0400 From: "Woundy, Richard" To: Eric Burger , Bruce Davie Thread-Topic: [CDNi] ??: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHMTSwg+m7AYeX9HU+TfOHhdWH80pUBx5Jg Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:18:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1135DE4C1@PACDCEXMB05.cable.comcast.com> References: <020b01cc3d49$1e0bf9b0$5771900a@china.huawei.com> <97A1D17E-3EF2-435D-8CCD-62E31E7441B2@standardstrack.com> In-Reply-To: <97A1D17E-3EF2-435D-8CCD-62E31E7441B2@standardstrack.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [76.96.111.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] ??: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:18:19 -0000 > Does that mean that this document is for discussion purposes, but we have= no plans of publishing it as an RFC? That impacts the level of review. The Framework document is an item in the CDNI charter. >From http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cdni/charter/: - A "framework" document providing a description of the different=20 components of the CDNI architecture and how they interact with one another.= This document will also include a "threat analysis"=20 discussing the security concerns and threats, the trust model and=20 privacy issues specific to CDNI.=20 ... Jun 2012 Submit CDNI framework to IESG as Informational =20 -- Rich -----Original Message----- From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eri= c Burger Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 9:42 AM To: Bruce Davie Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] ??: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-frame= work-00.txt Does that mean that this document is for discussion purposes, but we have n= o plans of publishing it as an RFC? That impacts the level of review. For t= he former, it gives us a framework to say, "Yes, this is possible." For the= latter, it means we need to dig out all of the nits. On Jul 8, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Bruce Davie wrote: > We're really trying hard not to turn this doc into either the requirement= s document or one of the interface specs. I was inspired by one comment at = the BOF "How is anyone going to figure out how all these pieces fit togethe= r"? So the framework tries to answer that question. It isn't a spec for any= particular interface, it doesn't even set the requirements for any interfa= ce. It tries to show (by examples and deployment scenarios mostly) how the = pieces work together.=20 _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk Thu Jul 28 08:25:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6AA21F8853 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.154 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.154 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.396, BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IYL1eUNPldY4 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058D121F884F for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15fb.meeting.ietf.org ([130.129.21.251]) by mail11.atlas.pipex.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QmST4-0003G2-Ab; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:25:47 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: <016101cc4cf8$f8d91b40$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:25:43 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FD13E63-A315-4D97-8943-BA7629C33956@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <016101cc4cf8$f8d91b40$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> To: He Xiaoyan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICBVcGRhdGluZyBSZWYgTW9kZWwg?= =?utf-8?q?picture_in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:25:51 -0000 Susan, On 28 Jul 2011, at 08:35, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi Ben and all, > In my proposal a hostname should also be provided to the downstream = CDN to > acquire content, I think at this point, we do not have any conflict. > What I'm trying to say is the hostname provided to the downstream CDN = should > always point to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN. It's = up to > the Request Routing function of the upstream CDN to decide the next = hop for > the content acquisition of the downstream CDN, e.g. A storage server = of the > Upstream CDN or the origin server of the CP, or the Request Routing = function > of the 3rd cascaded CDN. Why force such behaviour, rather than leaving it to the upstream CDN to = decide how it wants to implement the resolution of the "origin"/"content = source" hostnames it provides to downstream CDNs? Pointing the hostname = to the upstream CDN request routing function is a reasonable thing to do = but I see no reason to force such behaviour as it is just unnecessarily = limiting implementation flexibility. Ben > Furthermore, as the "regular" request routing mechanisms used intra = CDNs may > be different, e.g. some CDNs utilizing DNS, whilst others utilizing = HTTP > GET. Though it is very similar to a "regular" request routing = performed by > CDNs today, but as components from different CDNs involved, it should = be > specified or at least the mechanisms (DNS, HTTP) used across these = CDNs > should be specified to interconnect. >=20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20= > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 12:03 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan > =B3=AD=CB=CD: 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch)'; > cdni@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > Don't confuse the CDNI Request Routing interface (which is for = communicating > information between the request routing systems in different CDNs) = with the > "regular" request routing performed by CDNs today (and which would = still > exist in a world where CDNI is deployed). >=20 > The CDNI Metadata may include an Origin hostname that ultimately = resolves to > the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN but that does not = involve > the CDNI Request Routing interface. >=20 > I see no need for a downstream CDN Surrogate to make use of the CDNI = Request > Routing interface for acquisition and the proposed change to the = reference > model is not across the CDNI Request Routing interface but between the > downstream CDN Surrogate and the "regular" request routing function of = the > upstream CDN (and would have been marked out of scope for CDNI). >=20 > Ben >=20 > On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:36, He Xiaoyan wrote: >=20 >> Hi all, >> I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to = cover > the >> option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The = current >> figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI >> Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content > acquisition. >> To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative = entities, >> this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope = of > CDNI. >>=20 >> Best Regards >> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>=20 >> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- >> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent > Leung >> (kleung) >> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:53 >> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch) >> =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org >> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out > of >> scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without = the > need >> to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The = content >> acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 >>=20 >> My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and >> interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there = is an >> interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing > function. >> IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such = an >> interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the >> architecture should be complete. >>=20 >> Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to > differentiate >> from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. >>=20 >> Kent >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Ben >> Niven-Jenkins >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM >> To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> Francois, Colleagues, >>=20 >> My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like >> that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into = the >> reference model. >>=20 >> Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other >> Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN > may >> resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the >> surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content > Distribution >> Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for = a >> given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve = that >> hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname = resolution and > I >> believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking > making >> the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) = and >> implying a particular implementation of something that is already = declared >> out of scope for CDNI. >>=20 >> Ben >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: >>=20 >>> Ben, Nabil, >>>=20 >>> Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of >> cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Begin forwarded message: >>>=20 >>>> From: Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >>>> To: He Xiaoyan >>>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative=20 >>>> request routing >>>>=20 >>>> Hi again, >>>>=20 >>>> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Francois, >>>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>>> Some further concerns. >>>>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue >> its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled > directly >> by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like > a >> regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface = between a >> delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>>>=20 >>>> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the >> Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie = same >> interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the >> uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >>>> Does that help ? >>>>=20 >>>> -------- >>>> / \ >>>> | CSP | >>>> \ / >>>> -------- >>>> * >>>> * >>>> * /\ >>>> * / \ >>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>>> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>>> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . * Delivery = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . +------+ = . >>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>> | Agent| >>>> +------+ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be >> considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN > directly >> interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>>>> -------- >>>>> / \ >>>>> | CSP | >>>>> \ / >>>>> -------- >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> * /\ >>>>> * / \ >>>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>>> | |CDN Control |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | | >>>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>>> | ****| Logging |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Logging |**** | >>>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>>> . | * **|Req-Routing |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing |** * | . >>>>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * |Distribution |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * * | . >>>>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . * Delivery = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . +------+ = . >>>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>>> | Agent| >>>>> +------+ =A1=B0I = am=20 >>>>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that >> stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). = ie I'd >> picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its > inter-CDN >> acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the >> upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a > regular >> CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked = in >> dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not = be >> excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of >> mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>>>=20 >>>> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of = the > work >> on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying > what >> functionality those need to support.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you. >>>>=20 >>>> Francois >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>>>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request=20 >>>>> routing >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello He, >>>>>=20 >>>>> You are right that these definitions have been written with = handling of >> enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition >> requests). >>>>>=20 >>>>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a >> downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing >> system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, = in >> that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). = Since the >> inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a >> HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing >> protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request = Routing >> systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will >> issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled >> directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP = or >> DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN = (CDN1) >> decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request = to a > 3rd >> CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply = across >> these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions = actually > work, >> because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is = the >> upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the > definitions >> of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user >> request). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing >> in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>>>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards = a >> Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request > Routing >> system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the > Downstream >> CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition = only covers >> requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the = downstream > CDN >> for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request > routing >> is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case > of >> cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content >> locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the = downstream >> CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my > view, >> these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on > routing >> procedure. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only = covers >> the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream = CDN, the >> direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream = CDN for >> content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not >> covered. >>>>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or >> something else? >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CDNi mailing list >>>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>>> Corporate Development >>>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France >>>>> Greenside >>>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>>> France >>>>> Cisco.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>> Think before you print. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for = the > sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>>=20 >>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>> Corporate Development >>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France >>>> Greenside >>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>> France >>>> Cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>> Think before you print. >>>>=20 >>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>=20 >>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >=20 From swainner@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 09:32:45 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D672721F8B1A for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:32:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vlOfUunQeQ+C for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C98721F8C10 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:32:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=swainner@cisco.com; l=13279; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311870764; x=1313080364; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=3IKBw60ny8Ki6mmWXL55WU1KaE7Xet9STXq6gyAhtl0=; b=Jp5t1ELRWLWN+oM8fkwcnYDX56Y70QEtOGmtzYoUbJvsPj/AjXvnxLXn AkBAVLI515joOkQwoSopnRxsLZFNJz2qASh+WePq/+ANb+OZ/qZzvAbZR NrhSef1v146/ln4NdwlEtRwnXENFrqNykEgK8+NbsGMZgr2+j+Qe1XNmV E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuEAAFiOMU6rRDoG/2dsb2JhbAA0AQEBAQIBAQEBEQEeRwQGAQUHBQwRBAEBAQkiCAcJAwIBAgECGCMOCBIDAQgGAQEfl2qPT3eIfASkCp5ZhkEEknmRAA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,283,1309737600"; d="scan'208,217";a="7442770" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 16:32:43 +0000 Received: from stealth-10-32-245-61.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-245-61.cisco.com [10.32.245.61]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SGWgIF024444; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:32:42 GMT Message-ID: <4E318F7D.2030105@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 12:34:05 -0400 From: Scott Wainner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Thunderbird/3.1.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org References: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C023@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080404040305080804010906" Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use casein draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:32:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080404040305080804010906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray, I think we have to decouple the properties of the content from the policy. In addition, I'll expand the definition of content to include a set of assets. For a given asset, it has certain properties (aspect ratio, bit rate, etc.). I don't think we want to embed policy in the asset (e.g. manifest) as the policy may change depending on the environment. In the use case defined for asymmetric distribution, a 'low bit rate asset' may be viable over either the wireless network or the wireline network while a 'high bit rate asset' may only be viable on the wireline network. I don't think we want to define two versions for the low-bit rate asset: one for wireless and one for wireline. This means we would need to provide policy that is associated with, but not incorporated into the asset. I'm inclined to believe there are two capabilities advertised (wireless / wireline), a policy associated with the content (metadata), and the policy is associated with specific assets in the content bundle. The matching of the capabilities to the policy will dictate which CDN and which asset could be delivered. Scott On 7/26/11 6:40 PM, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote: > > Hi Kevin, > > > Though, to Francois's point, they could be considered as independent > pieces of content, rather than versions of the same content? > > Sure, that would be one way to look at it. But either way, in order to > be able to provide a seamless transfer as stated in the current > document, the relationships between the pieces of content should > either be known to both CDNs, or be reflected in the associated > manifest files. One could argue that when different pieces of content > are linked together through for example a manifest file, that you can > no longer talk about independent pieces of content. Of course this > depends on whether you the manifest file as the content or the > associated segments. > > Cheers, > > Ray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] > Sent: woensdag 27 juli 2011 0:31 > To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; > 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org' > Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org' > Subject: RE: Asymetric Distribution use case in > draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 > > Hi Ray, > > I believe your inference is correct. The use case considers the > possibility > of multiple bundles (e.g., a tv bundle and a mobile bundle). It > could be > that there also is a super-bundle, but the use case was there for > the scenario > that you described. Though, to Francois's point, they could be > considered > as independent pieces of content, rather than versions of the same > content? > > thanx. > > -- Kevin J. Ma > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > > Of Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van > > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:37 PM > > To: 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org' > > Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org' > > Subject: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in > > draft-bertrand-cdni- > > use-cases-02 > > > > Hi all, > > > > I noticed that the new version of the use cases document now includes > > an Asymetric Distribution use case in section 4.1 which describes a > > scenario in which different 'versions' of the same content are > > delivered by different CDNs. > > > > Although not explicitely stated in the text, the last paragraph in > > this section seems to strongly suggest that this use case should also > > work in combination with the Nomadic scenario in which a device starts > > in one CDN and switches to another (mid-stream). If this is indeed > > what the authors suggest, I think it would be a good idea to more > > clearly state this, since such a use case adds a significant number of > > requirements compared to the 'regular' asymmetric distribution use case. > > > > In the case of HLS for example, it would require different segments > > belonging to the same content item to be able to be distributed across > > CDNs. In turn this would require involved CDNs to no longer be able > > to handle a bundle of segments belonging to the same content as if it > > were a single file for distribution and management purposes. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Ray van Brandenburg > > > > > > This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at > > http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CDNi mailing list > > CDNi@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > --------------080404040305080804010906 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ray,

    I think we have to decouple the properties of the content from the policy.  In addition, I'll expand the definition of content to include a set of assets.  For a given asset, it has certain properties (aspect ratio, bit rate, etc.).  I don't think we want to embed policy in the asset (e.g. manifest) as the policy may change depending on the environment.

    In the use case defined for asymmetric distribution, a 'low bit rate asset' may be viable over either the wireless network or the wireline network while a 'high bit rate asset' may only be viable on the wireline network.  I don't think we want to define two versions for the low-bit rate asset: one for wireless and one for wireline.  This means we would need to provide policy that is associated with, but not incorporated into the asset.  I'm inclined to believe there are two capabilities advertised (wireless / wireline), a policy associated with the content (metadata), and the policy is associated with specific assets in the content bundle.  The matching of the capabilities to the policy will dictate which CDN and which asset could be delivered.

Scott

On 7/26/11 6:40 PM, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
Re: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use casein draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02

Hi Kevin,

> Though, to Francois's point, they could be considered as independent pieces of content, rather than versions of the same content?

Sure, that would be one way to look at it. But either way, in order to be able to provide a seamless transfer as stated in the current document, the relationships between the pieces of content should either be known to both CDNs, or be reflected in the associated manifest files. One could argue that when different pieces of content are linked together through for example a manifest file, that you can no longer talk about independent pieces of content. Of course this depends on whether you the manifest file as the content or the associated segments.

Cheers,

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
Sent: woensdag 27 juli 2011 0:31
To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org'
Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org'
Subject: RE: Asymetric Distribution use case in draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02

Hi Ray,

  I believe your inference is correct.  The use case considers the possibility
  of multiple bundles (e.g., a tv bundle and a mobile bundle).  It could be
  that there also is a super-bundle, but the use case was there for the scenario
  that you described.  Though, to Francois's point, they could be considered
  as independent pieces of content, rather than versions of the same content?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:37 PM
> To: 'draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org'
> Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org'
> Subject: [CDNi] Asymetric Distribution use case in
> draft-bertrand-cdni-
> use-cases-02
>
> Hi all,
>
> I noticed that the new version of the use cases document now includes
> an Asymetric Distribution use case in section 4.1 which describes a
> scenario in which different 'versions' of the same content are
> delivered by different CDNs.
>
> Although not explicitely stated in the text, the last paragraph in
> this section seems to strongly suggest that this use case should also
> work in combination with the Nomadic scenario in which a device starts
> in one CDN and switches to another (mid-stream). If this is indeed
> what the authors suggest, I think it would be a good idea to more
> clearly state this, since such a use case adds a significant number of
> requirements compared to the 'regular' asymmetric distribution use case.
>
> In the case of HLS for example, it would require different segments
> belonging to the same content item to be able to be distributed across
> CDNs.  In turn this would require involved CDNs to no longer be able
> to handle a bundle of segments belonging to the same content as if it
> were a single file for distribution and management purposes.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ray van Brandenburg
>
>
> This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at
> http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer
>
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--------------080404040305080804010906-- From kleung@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 10:52:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220EE5E8014 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:52:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.863 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.863 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.316, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Evnw3g6a76zD for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2720A5E800D for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:52:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; 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Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:52:30 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:52:13 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CC6C@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <0FD13E63-A315-4D97-8943-BA7629C33956@niven-jenkins.co.uk> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?UTF-8?B?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06IFtDRE5pXSBVcGRhdGluZyBSZWYgTW9kZQ==?= =?UTF-8?B?bCBwaWN0dXJlIGluIGNkbmktcHJvYmxlbS1zdGF0ZW0=?= =?UTF-8?B?ZW50Pw==?= Thread-Index: AcxNOqMPRjal4oBZTcu04Q4yUNpu2AAEqsCA References: <016101cc4cf8$f8d91b40$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> <0FD13E63-A315-4D97-8943-BA7629C33956@niven-jenkins.co.uk> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Ben Niven-Jenkins" , "He Xiaoyan" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 17:52:30.0473 (UTC) FILETIME=[1EFFAF90:01CC4D4F] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiDnrZTlpI06ICBVcGRhdGluZyBSZWYgTW9kZWwg?= =?utf-8?q?picture_in_cdni-problem-statement=3F?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:52:34 -0000 SGkgQmVuIGFuZCBTdXNhbi4gIEknbGwgY2hpbWUgaW4gd2l0aCBhbiBleGFtcGxlLiAgTGV0J3Mg c2F5IHVDRE4gaGFzIGEgY2VydGFpbiBjYXBhY2l0eSBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uL2RlbGl2ZXJ5 IGJ5IGl0cyBTdXJyb2dhdGVzLiAgSXQgcHJvdmlkZXMgdGhlIENETkkgTWV0YWRhdGEgdG8gZENE TiB0byBzZW5kIHJlcXVlc3QgdG8gdUNETidzIENETkkgUlIgZnVuY3Rpb24gdG8gYWNxdWlyZSBj b250ZW50LiAgVW5kZXIgbm9ybWFsIGNvbmRpdGlvbnMsIHVDRE4ncyBDRE5JIFJSIGZ1bmN0aW9u IGRlY2lkZXMgdG8gdXNlIGl0cyBTdXJyb2dhdGVzIHRvIGRlbGl2ZXIgY29udGVudCB0byBkQ0RO 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d3cuY2lzY28uY29tL3dlYi9hYm91dC9kb2luZ19idXNpbmVzcy9sZWdhbC9jcmkvaW5kZXguaHRt bA0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gQ0ROaSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IENETmlAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vY2RuaQ0KPj4gDQo+IA0KDQo= From kleung@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 11:55:56 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D505E8010 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.736 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.736 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.337, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tKdGGhvAnxNa for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:55:55 -0700 (PDT) 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2011 18:55:27 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SItRfv017014; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:55:27 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:55:26 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:55:19 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CCED@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxL1jXw3JFi3oNuSdWb2fXkqkNujQBfooOQ References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 18:55:26.0938 (UTC) FILETIME=[E9F283A0:01CC4D57] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:55:56 -0000 Hi. I'll pile on my comments under the same subject line. 1. Sect 1.1 Terminology: The following are not new terms: CDN Provider, dCDN, CDNI. These terms should go to one document later. 2. "Asymmetric Distribution" term doesn't match description well, IMHO. Maybe something like "Authorized Content Distribution"? It's probably not much better. 3. Sect 1.2 Abbreviations: ISP, PC, STB, UE, VoD, WiFI are not used in document. Maybe others too? 4. Consistency use of "CDN Interconnect" vs "CDN Interconnection" 5. Make sure to use terms properly "surrogate" -> "Surrogate", "end-user" -> "End User", etc. 6. Sect 2.4 Delivery Restrictions: Typo "geo- location-based" 7. The bullets for maximum resolution do not seem relevant to CDNI. Would this be controlled by the CSP/SP that authorizes access to the content by providing the URL to this type of resolution? The line is blurring between content delivery limitations (in non-CDNI case) and metadata relevant to CDNI. Definitely subscription should not be a factor. It seems to me that if the request reaches the uCDN, access to the content has already been authorized (i.e. to the End User or device). 8. Sect 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 Failure of Content: I'm not clear if dCDN is allowed to obtain contain directly from CSP? If so, then the CDNI model should have a Request Interface from dCDN to CSP. 9. Sect 4.1 Device and Network: The example assumes that CSP licensed both high and low resolution content to CDN A, right? Not clear how UA (mobile device) can get authorization to high resolution content? I assume there will be some URL validation at uCDN. 10. Sect 7 Security: Typo "situtations" -> "situations" Kent -----Original Message----- From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:54 PM To: draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Hello, Please find my review comments below. Cheers Francois *** Abstract & Introduction: " It provides the business motivations for CDNI Working Group, which can be used to validate different interconnection arrangements, and requirements of the various CDNI interfaces. " Now the WG is formed you may want to adjust into something like: " It can be used to provide guidance to the CDNI WG about the interconnection arrangements to be supported and to validate the requirements of the various CDNI interfaces." *** Introduction: " This document now merges input from [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and [I-D.ma-cdni-publisher-use-cases]. " I suggest you remove this historical info in new revs, as the document gradually matures towards WG material. *** Introduction: " There are many possible combinations for the relationships between the different parties (Network Service Provider (NSP), CDN Provider, Content Service Provider (CSP) and End User) involved in end-to-end content delivery. However, in the context of interconnecting CDNs the key relationships are listed below. o How the CSP interacts with the CDN provider, so that the CDN delivers content in a manner compliant with CSP's distribution policies. o How the End User interacts with the CSP and one or more CDNs to request and receive content. o How the different CDN providers, operating their CDNs, interact with one another to deliver the CSP's content to the End User while continuing to enforce the CSP's distribution policies. " I don't quite see the relevance of this text in the use-case document, or what point it is trying to bring across. In particular, it is a little confusing sine it talks about interfaces that are out of scope for CDNI without saying so. *** 1.1 Terminology o I expect that terminology across problem-statement, requirements and use-case needs to be aligned and made probably moved into one document and referred by all the others.=20 o "CDN Peering": I am not sure we need that term.=20 o "Recursive request routing/ Recursive request routing": see discussion on the list about moving those terms in a single doc=20 *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems I found it a little confusing to have the word "use cases" used here in the introduction as well as later in teh individual use-cases. How about something like "Rationale or Multi-CDN Systems"? *** 1.3 High Level Use Cases for Multi-CDN Systems " CSP-1 benefits because it only needs to make one business agreement and one physical connection, with CDN Provider A, but its End Users get a service quality as though it had also gone to the trouble of making a business agreement with CDN Provider B. " s/as though it had /as though CSP-1 had / *** 1.4. The Need for CDNI Standards " Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and an external CDN typically cannot use them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different solutions.=20 " It is difficult to use existing interfaces because they are proprietary, but also because they have often been designed as intra-CDN/intra-domain interfaces, so they don't have all the right attributes. Also, I think by "solutions" you mean "implementations". So perhaps: " Existing CDN interfaces are proprietary and have often been design for intra-CDN/intra-domain operations. So an external CDN typically cannot use them, especially if the two CDNs rely on different implementations. " " Nevertheless, [I-D.bertrand-cdni-experiments] shows that some level of CDN interconnection can be achieved experimentally without standardized interfaces between the CDNs. The methods used in these experiments are hardly usable in an operational context, because they suffer from several limitations in terms of functionalities, scalability, and security level. " s/ The methods used/However, the methods used/ " The aim of the CDNI standards work is therefore to overcome such shortcomings; a full list of requirements is being developed in [I-D.lefaucheur-cdni-requirements]. " s/the CDNI standards work/IETF CDNI WG solution/ ***2.1. Geographic Extension " In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic distribution that it can offer CSPs, without o compromising the quality of delivery o attracting transit and other network costs by serving from geographically or topologically remote surrogates. " I think would read better as: " In this use case, the CDN Provider wants to extend the geographic distribution that it can offer to its CSPs: o without compromising the quality of delivery o without incurring additional transit and other network costs that would result from serving content from geographically or topologically remote surrogates. " " As an example, suppose a French CSP wants to distribute its TV programs to End Users located in various countries in Europe and North Africa. It asks a French CDN Provider to deliver the content. The French CDN Provider's network only covers France, so it makes an agreement with another CDN Provider that covers North Africa. Overall, from the CSP's perspective the French CDN Provider provides a CDN service for both France and North Africa. " The example initially mentions a required coverage of Europe+ North Africa, but then seem to descrive a solution for a coverage of France+North Africa. *** 2.2. Region to Region Interconnection I don't find the phrase "Region to Region" very distinctive versus the previous "Geographic Extension". I think the key differences here is that the different CDNs are operated by different organization that are affiliates of the same company. So how about "Inter-Affiliates Interconnection"? *** 2.3. Nomadic Users You may want to mention that this is often loosely referred to as "TV everywhere". " The motivation in this case is to allow nomadic users to maintain access, rather than to allow all residents within a region access to the content. " s/to maintain access/to maintain access with consistent quality of experience/ You may want to expand a little on which CDNs need to be interconnected to address the use case (ie with CDN of "home NSP" interconnected to CDN of visited NSP) possibly with a picture. *** 2.4. Delivery Restrictions "Hence, the exchange through the CDN interconnection of information for controlling the footprint of the delivery is an important use case. " To me this is not an additional use cases, this is a requirement that has to be met in the use cases described earlier. In fact, the document mixes use cases and requirements in a few places. I would suggest that : * you refer to things discussed in that section as "requirements" * add a statement clarifying these requirements apply to the use cases discussed in the document. " o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files should be expunged from all CDN storage). " I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to deactivation time.=20 I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? " The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which may include quality of service rules that specify: o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their subscription levels. " I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in Initial scope. The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user subscription level). *** 3.1. Overload Handling and Dimensioning " This brings dimensioning savings to the CDNs as they can use the resources of each other during their peaks of activity. " s/their peaks of activity./ their respective peaks of activity./ *** 3.3. Branding Consideration Again, this seems more of a requirement than a use case per-say. I recommend you make that clear upfront in teh section (ie this is not an extra use cases, but a requirement applying to use-cases discussed before). Also, is there a reason this applicable to only the use cases in section 3 and not section 2? Anotehr option may be to move 2.4 and 3.3 under a separate heading somewhere collecting key requirements applicable to the many use cases.=20 *** 4.1. Device and Network Technology Extension Again I think some of the discussion assumes that there is some conversion of quality done inside the CDNs (as opposed to different terminal requesting different URIs). I think we need to discuss whether this is going to come in Initial Scope or not. *** in Figure 2:=20 s/CDN Provider A/CDN Provider 1/ *** co-authors. You have a long list of co-authors. As per current practice, you would want to split that into "editors" and "contributors". _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From kleung@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 13:10:52 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7FD21F8AF0 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8WpcrjZtIOMZ for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24E5121F8A7B for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:10:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=kleung@cisco.com; l=1693; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311883833; x=1313093433; h=mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date: message-id:in-reply-to:references:from:to:cc; bh=k3W4S5uVZqzV336Q1IAJMw6yWgggk8O5UUcsEfv4VkI=; b=g+uNeoXHFIC0KomRSCYhsizZlxehlaBEyS6S+U9ls1ZHTWjqwdka97yt 4f5KX+XqRbULj7iOztj/s8yF1gUMFVj3lj4X+1J1DnpMr0GN3fz9+/RPG MsFQzSLw4gvFy8g3l1vqclc9Ji2fTcBt+6+ZfzfMUV2ucv4qLYQmRe/iJ A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EABrBMU6rRDoJ/2dsb2JhbAA0AQEBAQMUASEKRRECAQkiAwMkBgETUQEBBQEiFAenOnetbZ43hWJfBIdZkDCLdA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,284,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="7525186" Received: from mtv-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.58.9]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 20:10:19 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SKAJnm030750; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:10:19 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:10:18 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:10:16 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxL1jXw3JFi3oNuSdWb2fXkqkNujQBitC2w References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 20:10:18.0821 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F517750:01CC4D62] Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:10:52 -0000 Hi Francois. Responding to comments related to the requirements draft below. o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files should be expunged from all CDN storage). " I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to deactivation time.=20 I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? KL> I've seen references to content expiration time (i.e. removal) in some drafts. So it seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata. Noted as requirement (possibly part of availability window) unless others object. " The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which may include quality of service rules that specify: o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their subscription levels. " I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in Initial scope. The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user subscription level). KL> I'm not yet convinced that this should be part of the CDNI Metadata. Based on the discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible requirement for now. Kent From flefauch@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 13:16:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB6E721F8AE1 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.336 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.336 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.758, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A9Q-H07JCvII for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909D721F8B23 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:16:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=27736; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311884190; x=1313093790; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=L4hgHuFLtdd8/1XZXivK4YDgsAg5Gg1b92iaDHXkMWg=; b=FpmnWLteEphAfauxvCctQN7NUOEbE1PiklIHB0C4aszQUrnv53yMOFfS ytG5cayYdwCHqw8leNDBnLClygiUYR1UZ70OXScQJ7KykjEk1EtBsSJ4i sCyLz6CGGuN3c8mkI+QvpyG7UkHCCV8z+CIHJJi4hBYba9sfZDJMgJvm0 4=; X-Files: image001.jpg, green.gif : 11041, 87 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,284,1309737600"; d="gif'147?jpg'147,145?scan'147,145,208,145,147,217";a="7526202" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 20:16:30 +0000 Received: from rtp-vpn6-1286.cisco.com (rtp-vpn6-1286.cisco.com [10.82.253.11]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SKGTRd021664; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:16:29 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-769-717052705 From: Francois Le Faucheur In-Reply-To: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:16:57 -0400 Message-Id: References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org, draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:16:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail-769-717052705 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Kent and all, On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote: > Hi Francois. Responding to comments related to the requirements draft > below. >=20 >=20 > o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files > should be expunged from all CDN storage). > " > I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this > expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to = deactivation > time.=20 > I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you = bring > that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? >=20 > KL> I've seen references to content expiration time (i.e. removal) in > some drafts. So it seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata. Noted as > requirement (possibly part of availability window) unless others = object. FLF as an Individual: that works for me. >=20 >=20 > " > The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which > may include quality of service rules that specify: > o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, > o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or > o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their > subscription levels. > " > I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 > It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in > phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports > transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in > Initial scope. > The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to > be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user > subscription level). >=20 >=20 > KL> I'm not yet convinced that this should be part of the CDNI = Metadata. > Based on the discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible > requirement for now. FLF as a chair: I will raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot = towards the end of the WG meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what = shoudl be in scope of CDNI. This will give us some sense on the WG views = on that. Francois >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --Apple-Mail-769-717052705 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-770-717052705 --Apple-Mail-770-717052705 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Kent = and all,

On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) = wrote:

Hi Francois.  Responding to comments related to = the requirements draft
below.


  o  an = expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files
=      should be expunged from all CDN = storage).
"
I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to = include this
expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition = to deactivation
time.
I don't think this is discussed in = cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring
that up on the list with the = cdni-reqts authors?

KL> I've seen references to content = expiration time (i.e. removal) in
some drafts.  So it seems to = be needed in the CDNI Metadata.  Noted as
requirement (possibly = part of availability window) unless others = object.

FLF as an Individual: = that works for me.



"
  The delivery of content may = be further influenced by policies which
  may include = quality of service rules that specify:
  o  the = maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices,
  o =  the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or
=   o  the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on = their
     subscription levels.
"
I = don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.
It is not = obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in
phase 1. = The first bullet only makes sense if the solution = supports
transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be = supported in
Initial scope.
The last bullet does not make sense to = me as we don;t want the CDNs to
be aware of any user subscription = levels (ie only CSP is aware of user
subscription = level).


KL> I'm not yet convinced that this should be part = of the CDNI Metadata.
Based on the discussion conclusion, we can = track this as possible
requirement for = now.

FLF as a chair: I will = raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot towards the end of the WG = meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what shoudl be in scope of CDNI. = This will give us some sense on the WG views on = that.

Francois



Kent





Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.
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filename=green.gif Content-Type: image/gif; name="green.gif" Content-Id: R0lGODlhEgATAJEAAAAAAP///wCZAP///yH5BAEAAAMALAAAAAASABMAAAIojI+pGyK8nINqUiTf bVnfvHEg1UmhdZRqaawu6XZVjKb0/CYxo8JOAQA7 --Apple-Mail-770-717052705-- --Apple-Mail-769-717052705-- From kleung@cisco.com Thu Jul 28 13:46:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184DF21F8AA8 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jefqi0RsOBWm for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com 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[128.107.191.63]) by bgl-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SKkZJD027034 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:46:40 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:46:28 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D67.6C945051" Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:46:22 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD90@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] New Version Notification fordraft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt Thread-Index: Acw7EV6zBXCe9EwiS9mEEHfIm08OLgSVBVDQ References: <20110701223523.17859.54099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Bruce Davie (bdavie)" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 20:46:28.0819 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CBCE230:01CC4D67] Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Version Notification fordraft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:46:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D67.6C945051 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruce. =20 Since the framework draft provides an overview of CDNI architecture/model, it might be useful to provide some description of the CDNI components for Upstream CDN and Downstream CDN, as well as non-CDNI components in the diagram for completeness. Also, describe the functional purpose of the CDNI Interfaces. The non-CDNI interfaces should also be covered for completeness. This information can be inserted in Sect 1 where the Reference Model is shown. =20 I think the document can be structured based on the CDNI functions and CDNI interfaces. The Building Blocks section is really part of Request Routing operation. I'd suggest that CDNI operations can be organized based on Request Routing, Metadata distribution, Logging, Control. So it doesn't come across that we are favoring Request Routing even though that is a critical part of CDNI. For each: =20 Request Routing: DNS, HTTP, Iterative, Recursive, Dynamic, Prepositioned Metadata: Geo-blocking, availability windows, access control (URI signature, whitelist/blacklist), prepositioned/dynamic, deletion, request mapping to uCDN acquisition Logging: Events such as content delivery, distribution, deletion, CDNI request routing, etc. Control: Deletion, etc. =20 I would consider moving the Deployment Models to the front before getting into the CDNI Operations details. This allows the reader to digest first the CDNI components and interfaces and interactions between them, then deployment models, and then how it all come together in operations. The flow may be better this way from the readability perspective. =20 Just a thought ... J =20 Kent =20 =20 From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Davie (bdavie) Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:45 AM To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] New Version Notification fordraft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 This draft may be of interest to the CDNI WG.=20 =20 If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI list. =20 Bruce Davie =20 Begin forwarded message: From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Date: July 1, 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT To: bsd@cisco.com Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt =20 A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-davie-cdni-framework Revision: 00 Title: Framework for CDN Interconnection Creation date: 2011-07-01 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 47 Abstract: This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI). The purpose of the framework is to provide an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect CDNs. CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing, metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from another. The intent of this document is to outline what each interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed specification to other documents. The IETF Secretariat =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D67.6C945051 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bruce.

 

Since the framework draft provides an overview of CDNI = architecture/model, it might be useful to provide some description of = the CDNI components for Upstream CDN and Downstream CDN, as well as = non-CDNI components in the diagram for completeness.  Also, = describe the functional purpose of the CDNI Interfaces.  The = non-CDNI interfaces should also be covered for completeness.  This = information can be inserted in Sect 1 where the Reference Model is = shown.

 

I think the document can be structured based on the CDNI functions = and CDNI interfaces.  The Building Blocks section is really part of = Request Routing operation.  I’d suggest that CDNI operations = can be organized based on Request Routing, Metadata distribution, = Logging, Control.  So it doesn’t come across that we are = favoring Request Routing even though that is a critical part of = CDNI.  For each:

 

Request Routing: DNS, HTTP, Iterative, Recursive, Dynamic, = Prepositioned

Metadata: Geo-blocking, availability windows, access control (URI = signature, whitelist/blacklist), prepositioned/dynamic, deletion, = request mapping to uCDN acquisition

Logging: Events such as content delivery, distribution, deletion, = CDNI request routing, etc.

Control: Deletion, etc.

 

I would consider moving the Deployment Models to the front before = getting into the CDNI Operations details.  This allows the reader = to digest first the CDNI components and interfaces and interactions = between them, then deployment models, and then how it all come together = in operations.  The flow may be better this way from the = readability perspective.

 

Just a thought … J

 

Kent

 

 

From:= = cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Bruce Davie (bdavie)
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:45 = AM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] New Version = Notification = fordraft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

This draft = may be of interest to the CDNI WG. 

 

If you have comments, please copy them to the CDNI = list.

 

Bruce Davie

 

Begin = forwarded message:



Date: = July 1, = 2011 6:35:23 PM EDT

To: = bsd@cisco.com

Cc: = lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com

Subject: = New Version Notification for = draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt

 

A new = version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-00.txt has been successfully = submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF = repository.

Filename:         = draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision:         = 00
Title:        &n= bsp;       Framework for CDN = Interconnection
Creation date: = 2011-07-01
WG ID:        &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;  Individual Submission
Number of pages: = 47

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework = for Content Distribution Network
  Interconnection (CDNI). =  The purpose of the framework is to provide
  an = overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe = the
  relationships among the various components necessary = to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires = the specification of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to = address issues such as request routing,
  metadata = exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN = from
  another.  The intent of this document is to = outline what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to = describe how these interfaces
  and mechanisms fit = together, while leaving their detailed
  specification to = other documents.





The IETF = Secretariat

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D67.6C945051-- From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Thu Jul 28 13:54:34 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33E321F8B23 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:54:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.97 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.97 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.392, BAYES_00=-2.599, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qFmIJSdVLlVt for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A3321F8AD2 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A1A5543E0; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:54:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB025.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 004F0553EED; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:54:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB025.mail.lan ([10.110.17.25]) with mapi; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:54:31 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: Francois Le Faucheur , "Kent Leung (kleung)" Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 16:54:27 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxNY0FHDODIQ+V5SHOm6eLqKV36qAAAOplA Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes 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rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 21:18:06 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by mtv-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SLI4HC031795; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:18:06 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.85]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:18:05 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D6B.D706959C" Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:18:01 -0700 Message-ID: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CDC5@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxNY0FHDODIQ+V5SHOm6eLqKV36qAAAOplAAAGLqDA= References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Kevin J Ma" , "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2011 21:18:05.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[D7776FB0:01CC4D6B] Cc: cdni@ietf.org, draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:19:08 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC4D6B.D706959C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01CC4D6B.D706959C" ------_=_NextPart_002_01CC4D6B.D706959C 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id DD96711E810B for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:22:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.673, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HkciuxWnRHL2 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1239D11E8099 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:22:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=49723; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311888148; x=1313097748; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to; bh=A7uVbzrubT2+W4YEwrT/6RkvuGaMAv9hhf0gOqXa2RM=; b=Yx4LoF9fRpM5R1xB4atroi1gMrwgOiilW6FHDDOxxxFJd3Xwfs7FjTZi /vwlt19P2nvDYVjZy7QqEZ2mTXM+WeB27Eb0ek4mKZ2ji/+YUO10tlFFJ vLazE1KSoT6O4H0Rroxo/O54ONIfext4rD+/TQpRnBldZ9jwKGmiCX2vC s=; X-Files: image001.jpg, green.gif : 11041, 87 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,284,1309737600"; d="gif'147?jpg'147,145?scan'147,145,208,145,147,217";a="7548991" Received: from rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com ([173.37.113.191]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Jul 2011 21:21:41 +0000 Received: from rtp-vpn5-967.cisco.com (rtp-vpn5-967.cisco.com [10.82.235.202]) by rcdn-core2-4.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6SLLeYr011936; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:21:40 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-19-720965129 From: Francois Le Faucheur In-Reply-To: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:22:10 -0400 Message-Id: References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> To: Kevin J Ma X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" , "draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:22:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail-19-720965129 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:54, Kevin J Ma wrote: > Just one quick comment: it was not necessarily the intent of the use = cases to imply > that CDNI requirements be generated for each piece of metadata; the = metadata may be > useful for certain deployments, but opaque metadata distribution may = be sufficient? > =20 > There was discussion early on about metadata with implied actions = like: expiration, > or sunset/sunrise, or ssl only, or url hashing required, or content = transformation, > or do accounting, or other proprietary optimization or policy = enforcement features, > etc., but its not clear that we would want CDNI requirements for each = of these? > =20 > It seems like a more generic notion of defining metadata (and their = actions), and > allowing CDNs to advertise or decline metadata (action) support would = useful, as > opposed to adding a requirement for each piece of metadata? I have been assuming that we'd want to specify: *A* a set of well-accepted metadata elements with their = semantics (eg start of time window, end of time window,...), AND *B* probably, also a mechanism to allow exchange of opaque = metadata element, whose semantic is not defined in CDNI but up to = private CDN agreement. I believe *A* is needed to facilitate actual base interoperation across = CDNs. I believe *B* is useful to allow CDNs to do extra thing on top of what = has been specified in CDNI. Are you saying that you feel only *B* is needed? Cheers Francois > =20 > =20 > From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 4:17 PM > To: Kent Leung (kleung) > Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; = draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org; cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 > =20 > Kent and all, > =20 > On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Francois. Responding to comments related to the requirements draft > below. >=20 >=20 > o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files > should be expunged from all CDN storage). > " > I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this > expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to = deactivation > time.=20 > I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you = bring > that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? >=20 > KL> I've seen references to content expiration time (i.e. removal) in > some drafts. So it seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata. Noted as > requirement (possibly part of availability window) unless others = object. > =20 > FLF as an Individual: that works for me. > =20 >=20 >=20 > " > The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies which > may include quality of service rules that specify: > o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, > o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or > o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their > subscription levels. > " > I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 > It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in > phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports > transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported in > Initial scope. > The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to > be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of user > subscription level). >=20 >=20 > KL> I'm not yet convinced that this should be part of the CDNI = Metadata. > Based on the discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible > requirement for now. > =20 > FLF as a chair: I will raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot = towards the end of the WG meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what = shoudl be in scope of CDNI. This will give us some sense on the WG views = on that. > =20 > Francois > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 > =20 > >=20 > Francois Le Faucheur > Distinguished Engineer > Corporate Development > flefauch@cisco.com > Phone: +33 49 723 2619 > Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >=20 >=20 > Cisco Systems France > Greenside > 400 Ave de Roumanille > 06410 Sophia Antipolis > France > Cisco.com >=20 > =20 >=20 > > Think before you print. >=20 > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >=20 > Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >=20 > For corporate legal information go to: > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 > =20 Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --Apple-Mail-19-720965129 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-20-720965130 --Apple-Mail-20-720965130 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:54, Kevin J Ma = wrote:

Just one quick = comment: it was not necessarily the intent of the use cases to = imply
that CDNI = requirements be generated for each piece of metadata; the metadata may = be
useful for certain deployments, but opaque = metadata distribution may be sufficient?
There was = discussion early on about metadata with implied actions like: = expiration,
or = sunset/sunrise, or ssl only, or url hashing required, or content = transformation,
or do = accounting, or other proprietary optimization or policy enforcement = features,
etc., but its = not clear that we would want CDNI requirements for each of = these?
It seems like a = more generic notion of defining metadata (and their actions), = and
allowing CDNs to advertise or decline = metadata (action) support would useful, as
*A* a set = of well-accepted metadata elements with their semantics (eg start of = time window, end of time window,...), AND
*B* = probably, also a mechanism to allow exchange of opaque metadata element, = whose semantic is not defined in CDNI but up to private CDN = agreement.

I believe *A* is needed to = facilitate actual base interoperation across CDNs.
I believe = *B* is useful to allow CDNs to do extra thing on top of what has been = specified in CDNI.
Are you saying that you feel only *B* is = needed?

Cheers

Francois<= /div>
 
 Francois = Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 = 4:17 PM
To: Kent Leung = (kleung)
Cc: Francois Le Faucheur;  cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on = draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02
 
Kent and = all,
 
On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) = wrote:
Hi Francois. =  Responding to comments related to the requirements = draft
below.


  o  an expiration time (i.e., = the time at which the content = files
     should be expunged from all CDN = storage).
"
I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to = include this
expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition = to deactivation
time. 
I don't think this is = discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring
that up on the list = with the cdni-reqts authors?

KL> I've seen references to = content expiration time (i.e. removal) in
some drafts.  So it = seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata.  Noted as
requirement = (possibly part of availability window) unless others = object.
FLF as an Individual: = that works for me.


"
  The delivery of = content may be further influenced by policies which
  may = include quality of service rules that specify:
  o =  the maximum resolution deliverable to specific = devices,
  o  the maximum resolution deliverable = though a specific NSP, or
  o  the maximum resolution = deliverable to users based on = their
     subscription levels.
"
I = don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc. 
It is not obvious to me = that absolutely all of those ought to be in
phase 1. The first bullet = only makes sense if the solution supports
transcoding/transrating, = which I don't know if it will be supported in
Initial scope.
The = last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to
be = aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of = user
subscription level).


KL> I'm not yet convinced = that this should be part of the CDNI Metadata.
Based on the = discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible
requirement for = now.
FLF as a chair: I = will raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot towards the end of the = WG meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what shoudl be in scope of CDNI. = This will give us some sense on the WG views on = that.

Kent

 

Francois = Le FaucheurCorporate = Development
+33 49 723 = 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 = 90

Cisco = Systems FranceCisco.com

 Think before you = print.



Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.
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filename=green.gif Content-Type: image/gif; name="green.gif" Content-Id: R0lGODlhEgATAJEAAAAAAP///wCZAP///yH5BAEAAAMALAAAAAASABMAAAIojI+pGyK8nINqUiTf bVnfvHEg1UmhdZRqaawu6XZVjKb0/CYxo8JOAQA7 --Apple-Mail-20-720965130-- --Apple-Mail-19-720965129-- From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Thu Jul 28 14:35:36 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D234C21F8AD6 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:35:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.006 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.006 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HPeUzuLr34ZB for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7738121F8A7B for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3EA416E67; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:35:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB022.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09CB4416EEF; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB022.mail.lan ([10.110.17.22]) with mapi; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:35:28 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: Francois Le Faucheur Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:35:22 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxNbj7VYznrN75/QeS/6DJfIre42w== Message-ID: References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E62C77A9A3E6469BBED27AB0056B4DB1azukisystemscom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" , "draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:35:36 -0000 --_000_E62C77A9A3E6469BBED27AB0056B4DB1azukisystemscom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aSB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBjb3VsZCBiZSBhbG90IG9mIGRlYmF0ZSBhYm91dCB3aGF0IHF1YWxpZmll 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PC90Ym9keT48L3RhYmxlPjwvc3Bhbj48L3NwYW4+DQoNCjwvc3Bhbj48L3NwYW4+PC90ZD48L3Ry PjwvdGJvZHk+PC90YWJsZT48L3NwYW4+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90 ZT48L2JvZHk+PC9odG1sPg== --_000_E62C77A9A3E6469BBED27AB0056B4DB1azukisystemscom_-- From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com Thu Jul 28 14:39:08 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88DC95E8014 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:39:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.005 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.005 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uTradONRUCwj for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (mxout.myoutlookonline.com [64.95.72.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB56121F8B06 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxout.myoutlookonline.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDF8416ECA; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:38:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mail.lan Received: from HUB022.mail.lan (unknown [10.110.2.1]) by mxout.myoutlookonline.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A88416E54; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MAILR002.mail.lan ([10.110.18.16]) by HUB022.mail.lan ([10.110.17.22]) with mapi; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:39:04 -0400 From: Kevin J Ma To: Kevin J Ma , Francois Le Faucheur Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:39:01 -0400 Thread-Topic: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 Thread-Index: AcxNbj7VYznrN75/QeS/6DJfIre42wAAFb/g Message-ID: <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C7D5@MAILR002.mail.lan> References: <1AC8E92C-3A69-4C80-A235-710DEF396A53@cisco.com> <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CD55@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> <291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C785@MAILR002.mail.lan> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C7D5MAILR002maill_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" , "draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:39:08 -0000 --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C7D5MAILR002maill_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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dHI+PC90YWJsZT48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48cCBjbGFzcz1Nc29Ob3JtYWw+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286 cD48L3A+PC9kaXY+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYm9keT48L2h0bWw+ --_000_291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C6518C19C7D5MAILR002maill_-- From john.schlack@bnivideo.com Thu Jul 28 15:55:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA8D11E80B5 for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3StTmd+qhs7a for ; Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXHUB020-2.exch020.serverdata.net (exhub020-2.exch020.serverdata.net [206.225.164.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP 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From hexiaoyan@huawei.com Fri Jul 29 02:05:16 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D72321F8ACC for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 02:05:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.759 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.759 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XSTjAH3FdjSO for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 02:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FFB521F8AE1 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 02:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga03-in [172.24.2.9]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP300L417TDAS@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:03:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0LP300B3F7TD4U@szxga03-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:03:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from w36710x ([10.144.242.54]) by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0LP3006P27T9MC@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for cdni@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:03:12 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:03:09 +0800 From: He Xiaoyan In-reply-to: <2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC520F72CC6C@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com> To: "'Kent Leung (kleung)'" , 'Ben Niven-Jenkins' Message-id: <01a101cc4dce$574d30a0$36f2900a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-index: AcxNOqMPRjal4oBZTcu04Q4yUNpu2AAEqsCAAA+1QOA= Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogtPC4tDogIFVwZGF0aW5nIFJlZiBN?= =?gb2312?b?b2RlbCBwaWN0dXJlIGluIGNkbmktcHJvYmxlbS1zdGF0ZW1lbnQ/?= X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 09:05:16 -0000 Hi Kent and Ben, Thanks for you example and reply. I accept it's an option for content distribution. The uCDN does not have to use it for content distribution. = Best Regards Xiaoyan(Susan) He -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20 =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C229=C8=D5 1:52 =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; He Xiaoyan =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch); cdni@ietf.org =D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model = picture in cdni-problem-statement? Hi Ben and Susan. I'll chime in with an example. Let's say uCDN has a certain capacity for distribution/delivery by its Surrogates. It = provides the CDNI Metadata to dCDN to send request to uCDN's CDNI RR function to acquire content. Under normal conditions, uCDN's CDNI RR function = decides to use its Surrogates to deliver content to dCDN. However, when uCDN's Surrogates are overloaded, its CDNI RR function will redirect the = request from dCDN to another CDN, serving as over-flow capacity (i.e. overflow handling and dimensioning use case). Basically, the reasons to use CDNI apply not just to User Agent's request, but also for dCDN's content acquisition request (CDNI distribution). =20 I see this as an option for the uCDN to ensure highly available = distribution service. The uCDN does not have to use this interface for content distribution. So it doesn't seem "forced" to me. Just the opposite, it adds flexibility and takes advantages of the benefits of CDNI. Though I think we need to think through the implications. I do see value for = such an interface. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20 Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:26 AM To: He Xiaoyan Cc: Kent Leung (kleung); Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch); cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model = picture in cdni-problem-statement? Susan, On 28 Jul 2011, at 08:35, He Xiaoyan wrote: > Hi Ben and all, > In my proposal a hostname should also be provided to the downstream = CDN to > acquire content, I think at this point, we do not have any conflict. > What I'm trying to say is the hostname provided to the downstream CDN should > always point to the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN. It's = up to > the Request Routing function of the upstream CDN to decide the next = hop for > the content acquisition of the downstream CDN, e.g. A storage server = of the > Upstream CDN or the origin server of the CP, or the Request Routing function > of the 3rd cascaded CDN. Why force such behaviour, rather than leaving it to the upstream CDN to decide how it wants to implement the resolution of the "origin"/"content source" hostnames it provides to downstream CDNs? Pointing the hostname = to the upstream CDN request routing function is a reasonable thing to do = but I see no reason to force such behaviour as it is just unnecessarily = limiting implementation flexibility. Ben > Furthermore, as the "regular" request routing mechanisms used intra = CDNs may > be different, e.g. some CDNs utilizing DNS, whilst others utilizing = HTTP > GET. Though it is very similar to a "regular" request routing = performed by > CDNs today, but as components from different CDNs involved, it should = be > specified or at least the mechanisms (DNS, HTTP) used across these = CDNs > should be specified to interconnect. >=20 > Best Regards > Xiaoyan(Susan) He >=20 > -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] = > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 12:03 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan > =B3=AD=CB=CD: 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch)'; > cdni@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in cdni-problem-statement? >=20 > Don't confuse the CDNI Request Routing interface (which is for communicating > information between the request routing systems in different CDNs) = with the > "regular" request routing performed by CDNs today (and which would = still > exist in a world where CDNI is deployed). >=20 > The CDNI Metadata may include an Origin hostname that ultimately = resolves to > the Request Routing function in the upstream CDN but that does not = involve > the CDNI Request Routing interface. >=20 > I see no need for a downstream CDN Surrogate to make use of the CDNI Request > Routing interface for acquisition and the proposed change to the = reference > model is not across the CDNI Request Routing interface but between the > downstream CDN Surrogate and the "regular" request routing function of = the > upstream CDN (and would have been marked out of scope for CDNI). >=20 > Ben >=20 > On 28 Jul 2011, at 04:36, He Xiaoyan wrote: >=20 >> Hi all, >> I share the view that the CDNI architecture should be complete to = cover > the >> option even if it is not the only way to solve the problem. The = current >> figure does not include the interface between dCDN surrogate and CDNI >> Request Routing of an uCDN which may be involved during content > acquisition. >> To support interconnection of CDNs from different administrative entities, >> this interface should be specified and hence should be in the scope = of > CDNI. >>=20 >> Best Regards >> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>=20 >> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE----- >> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org = [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent > Leung >> (kleung) >> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA7=D4=C228=C8=D5 4:53 >> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Ben Niven-Jenkins; Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch) >> =B3=AD=CB=CD: cdni@ietf.org >> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> My interpretation of the CDNI Model figure - "Acquisition" Interface = (out > of >> scope) is used to distribute content between uCDN and dCDN without = the > need >> to involve the CDNI Request Routing function in the uCDN. The = content >> acquisition may involve intra-CDN request routing in the uCDN. =20 >>=20 >> My view is that the CDNI architecture depicts the CDNI functions and >> interfaces between relevant components. We should clarify if there = is an >> interface between the dCDN Surrogate and uCDN CDNI Request Routing > function. >> IMHO, this interface exists. Though uCDN may decide not to use such = an >> interface for content distribution. But that's deployment option and = the >> architecture should be complete. >>=20 >> Note, I've explicitly noted "CDNI Request Routing function" to > differentiate >> from general request routing which can be used for intra-CDN = redirection. >>=20 >> Kent >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > Ben >> Niven-Jenkins >> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:44 AM >> To: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Updating Ref Model picture in = cdni-problem-statement? >>=20 >> Francois, Colleagues, >>=20 >> My personal opinion is that we should not update the reference model = like >> that, because it starts to introduce implementation specifics into = the >> reference model. >>=20 >> Acquisition between CDNs is largely similar to acquisition from any = other >> Origin. There are a multitude of ways for how a given = Origin/UpstreamCDN > may >> resolve into an actual server that will deliver the content to the >> surrogate. The downstream CDN will be provided (via the Content > Distribution >> Metadata) details (e.g. a hostname) from which to acquire content for = a >> given CDN service. Using the upstream CDN request router to resolve = that >> hostname is just one possible way to implement the hostname = resolution and > I >> believe calling it out explicitly doesn't add anything except risking > making >> the diagram more confusing (it's already pretty "messy" and complex) = and >> implying a particular implementation of something that is already declared >> out of scope for CDNI. >>=20 >> Ben >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 8 Jul 2011, at 10:35, Francois Le Faucheur wrote: >>=20 >>> Ben, Nabil, >>>=20 >>> Are you OK with updating the Ref Model picture in the next rev of >> cdni-problem-statement as proposed below? >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Francois >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Begin forwarded message: >>>=20 >>>> From: Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Date: 9 June 2011 15:40:26 CEST >>>> To: He Xiaoyan >>>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , cdni@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: =B4=F0=B8=B4: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative >>>> request routing >>>>=20 >>>> Hi again, >>>>=20 >>>> On 9 Jun 2011, at 05:08, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Francois, >>>>> Thanks for your reply. >>>>> Some further concerns. >>>>> =A1=B0ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will issue >> its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be handled > directly >> by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, = like > a >> regular CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>>> Not very clear how that works because there is no interface = between a >> delivery node and RR in another CDN of CDNI model as below. >>>>=20 >>>> We could show a "Request" interface between the "Surrogate" in the >> Downstream CDN and the Request Routing system in the Upstream CDN (ie same >> interface as the "Request" interface shown between the User-Agent and = the >> uCDN/dCDN Request Routing system) like shown below. >>>> Does that help ? >>>>=20 >>>> -------- >>>> / \ >>>> | CSP | >>>> \ / >>>> -------- >>>> * >>>> * >>>> * /\ >>>> * / \ >>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >>>> . | * * +-------------+.| | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * * . CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>> . | * * +----------*--+ |. protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D.=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| * = * | . >>>> . | * * | | | . \ / | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * * | | | . \/ | | | * * | = . >>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | ..Request........+---------+**** * | = . >>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . * Delivery = . >>>> . * = . >>>> . +------+ = . >>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>> | Agent| >>>> +------+ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> And I=A1=AFm not sure if any additional security issues need to be >> considered when we talking about that a cache in the downstream CDN > directly >> interact with the upstream CDN=A1=AFs RR. >>>>> -------- >>>>> / \ >>>>> | CSP | >>>>> \ / >>>>> -------- >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> * /\ >>>>> * / \ >>>>> --------------------- |CDNI| --------------------- >>>>> / Upstream CDN \ | | / Downstream CDN \ >>>>> | +-------------+ | Control protocol| +-------------+ | >>>>> | |CDN Control = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| CDN Control | = | >>>>> | +------*-*-*--+ | | | | +-*-*-*-------+ | >>>>> | * * * | | | | * * * | >>>>> | +------*------+ | Logging protocol| +-----*-------+ | >>>>> | ****| Logging = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Logging = |**** | >>>>> | * --------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * | >>>>> | * * * | Request Routing | * * * | >>>>> ....*...+--------*----+ | protocol | = +---*---------+...*..... >>>>> . | * **|Req-Routing = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Req-Routing = |** * | . >>>>> . | * * +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * * | CDNI Metatdata | * * * | = . >>>>> . | * * +----------*--+ | protocol | +-*-----------+ * * | = . >>>>> . | * * |Distribution = |<=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>| Distribution| = * * | . >>>>> . | * * | | | \ / | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * * | | | \/ | | | * * | = . >>>>> . | * ****+---------+ | | | | +---------+**** * | = . >>>>> . | ******|Surrogate|*************************|Surrogate|****** | = . >>>>> . | | +---------+ | | Acquisition | | +-----*---+ | | = . >>>>> . | +-------------+ | | +-------*-----+ | = . >>>>> . \ / \ * / = . >>>>> . --------------------- ---------*----------- = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . * Delivery = . >>>>> . * = . >>>>> . +------+ = . >>>>> ...............Request...........................| User = |..Request.. >>>>> | Agent| >>>>> +------+ =A1=B0I = am=20 >>>>> not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing protocol at = that >> stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing systems). = ie I'd >> picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) will issue its > inter-CDN >> acquisition request and that request will be handled directly by the >> upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP or DNS, like a > regular >> CDN scenario.=A1=B1 >>>>> I am not proposing CDNI Request Routing protocol must be invoked = in >> dynamic content acquisition. But I think any possibilities should not = be >> excluded in requirement stage. In my understanding, election of >> mechanisms/solutions is job of next stage (framework?)? >>>>=20 >>>> Detailed mechanisms/solutions/protocols is to be done as part of = the > work >> on the actual "interfaces" but the Requirements I-D aims at = identifying > what >> functionality those need to support.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you. >>>>=20 >>>> Francois >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Francois Le Faucheur = [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] >>>>> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA6=D4=C29=C8=D5 0:19 >>>>> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: He Xiaoyan >>>>> =B3=AD=CB=CD: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org >>>>> =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [CDNi] Comments on definition of = recursive&iterative request >>>>> routing >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hello He, >>>>>=20 >>>>> You are right that these definitions have been written with = handling of >> enduser requests in mind (as opposed to handling of inter-CDN = acquisition >> requests). >>>>>=20 >>>>> The logic is that the inter-CDN acquisition request (issued by a >> downstream CDN cache and pointing to the upstream CDN request routing >> system) can be considered simply as another request of its own (only, = in >> that case, the "end user" happens to be a downstream CDN cache). = Since the >> inter-CDN acquisition request is expected to come out of a cache (eg = via a >> HTTP get), I am not sure we'd want to invoke the CDNI Request Routing >> protocol at that stage (that is intended to operate across Request Routing >> systems). ie I'd picture that the cache in the downstream CDN (CDN2) = will >> issue its inter-CDN acquisition request and that request will be = handled >> directly by the upstream CDN Request Routing system (CDN1) - via HTTP = or >> DNS, like a regular CDN scenario. Of course, if the upstream CDN = (CDN1) >> decided to redirect that particular (inter-CDN acquisition) request = to a > 3rd >> CDN (CDN3), then the iterative/recursive redirection would apply = across >> these CDNs; but in this case, I think the current definitions = actually > work, >> because with respect to the inter-CDN acquisition request, CDN1 is = the >> upstream CDN and CDN3 is the downstream CDN). (remember that the > definitions >> of upstream CDN and downstream CDN are all relative to a given user >> request). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks for looking into the Requirements document. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 8 Jun 2011, at 04:23, He Xiaoyan wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Some comments on definition of recursive and iterative request = routing >> in I-D .draft-lefaucheur-cdni-requirements. >>>>> 1) =A1=B0When an Upstream CDN elects to redirect a request towards = a >> Downstream CDN,the Upstream CDN can query the Downstream CDN Request > Routing >> system via the CDNI Request Routing protocol to find out how the > Downstream >> CDN wants the request to be redirected =A1=AD=A1=B1 This definition = only covers >> requests initiated by users where upstream CDN will query the = downstream > CDN >> for routing decision. There is another case where recursive request > routing >> is also utilized but not covered by this definition in CDNI, i.e. In = case > of >> cache miss and hence dynamic content acquisition invoked, for the = content >> locate request issued by a delivery node of downstream CDN, the downstream >> CDN can query the upstream CDN on routing/redirection decision. In my > view, >> these are two very similar scenarios with no essential difference on > routing >> procedure. >>>>>=20 >>>>> 2) Similarly, for iterative request routing, the definition only covers >> the case that requests redirected from upstream CDN to downstream = CDN, the >> direction that requests redirected from downstream CDN to upstream = CDN for >> content locate requests in case of dynamic content acquisition is not >> covered. >>>>> Is the intent to exclude routings for content locate requests or >> something else? >>>>> Thanks. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best Regards >>>>> Xiaoyan(Susan) He >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> CDNi mailing list >>>>> CDNi@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>>> Corporate Development >>>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France >>>>> Greenside >>>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>>> France >>>>> Cisco.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> >>>>>=20 >>>>> Think before you print. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for = the > sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>>=20 >>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> Francois Le Faucheur >>>> Distinguished Engineer >>>> Corporate Development >>>> flefauch@cisco.com >>>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France >>>> Greenside >>>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>>> France >>>> Cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> >>>> Think before you print. >>>>=20 >>>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>>=20 >>>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>>=20 >>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole >> use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure >> by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient > (or >> authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact the sender = by > reply >> email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=A8=A6t=A8=A6 =A8=A4 responsabiit=A8=A6 = limit=A8=A6e, Rue Camille >> Desmoulins =A8C Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy les > Moulineaux, >> Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, Directeur de la >> publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >=20 From flefauch@cisco.com Fri Jul 29 07:02:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6B321F8C18 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:02:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.606, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, SARE_GIF_ATTACH=1.42] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pCtKZG3tVYeQ for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330BC21F8C06 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=flefauch@cisco.com; l=62087; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1311948169; x=1313157769; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:cc:to: message-id; bh=3pCvDz97ERVDRYw6uFU9QE/ybwSvXVCS1xvbr54DXPA=; b=aBB1bHv8mUp/6PsdkEPsjPzevMYfiUuk+VCXG7DOpdnOG5sPEyFi7l1I wpOPFEghMsSI4CxiHj89EwqCxQ8pMyFerad7GAZsV0TEvTkG1By7HuSg0 +KgWsX2ftAq6CgBXRirpm/EvuAmEodKhCFrGArTr9MyIEiXjldCOD/3nJ Y=; X-Files: image001.jpg, green.gif : 11041, 87 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,287,1309737600"; d="gif'147?jpg'147,145?scan'147,145,208,145,147,217";a="7792290" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Jul 2011 14:02:48 +0000 Received: from rtp-vpn5-1270.cisco.com (rtp-vpn5-1270.cisco.com [10.82.236.250]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p6TE2lXC031875; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:02:48 GMT From: Francois Le Faucheur Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-70-781033137 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:03:18 -0400 References: To: "Kent (kleung) Leung" , Yiu Lee Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Fwd: comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:02:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail-70-781033137 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Ken, Yiu, Can you add into your list of tracked candidate items something = reflecting this thread? ie ensuring cdni-requirements incorporates = requirements on the CDNI Metadata interface covering: *A* ability to exchange a set of well-accepted metadata elements = with specified semantics (eg start of time window, end of time = window,...), AND *B* ability to allow exchange of opaque metadata element, whose = semantic is not defined in CDNI but left up to private CDN agreement. Dave Oran also privately suggested that we expand on *B* to cover the = usual distribution options for treatment of opaque element (eg = ignore-and-pass-on-when-not-understood, etc). Which makes sense to me. Thanks Francois Begin forwarded message: > From: Kevin J Ma > Date: 28 July 2011 17:35:22 EDT > To: Francois Le Faucheur > Cc: Francois Le Faucheur , "Kent Leung (kleung)" = , "draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org" = , "cdni@ietf.org" = > Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 >=20 > i think there could be alot of debate about what qualifies as A. >=20 > one solution would be to go with just B, for requirements, but > either way is ok with me. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Jul 28, 2011, at 5:22 PM, "Francois Le Faucheur" = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:54, Kevin J Ma wrote: >>=20 >>> Just one quick comment: it was not necessarily the intent of the use = cases to imply >>> that CDNI requirements be generated for each piece of metadata; the = metadata may be >>> useful for certain deployments, but opaque metadata distribution may = be sufficient? >>> =20 >>> There was discussion early on about metadata with implied actions = like: expiration, >>> or sunset/sunrise, or ssl only, or url hashing required, or content = transformation, >>> or do accounting, or other proprietary optimization or policy = enforcement features, >>> etc., but its not clear that we would want CDNI requirements for = each of these? >>> =20 >>> It seems like a more generic notion of defining metadata (and their = actions), and >>> allowing CDNs to advertise or decline metadata (action) support = would useful, as >>> opposed to adding a requirement for each piece of metadata? >>=20 >> I have been assuming that we'd want to specify: >> *A* a set of well-accepted metadata elements with their = semantics (eg start of time window, end of time window,...), AND >> *B* probably, also a mechanism to allow exchange of opaque = metadata element, whose semantic is not defined in CDNI but up to = private CDN agreement. >>=20 >> I believe *A* is needed to facilitate actual base interoperation = across CDNs. >> I believe *B* is useful to allow CDNs to do extra thing on top of = what has been specified in CDNI. >> Are you saying that you feel only *B* is needed? >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]=20 >>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 4:17 PM >>> To: Kent Leung (kleung) >>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; = draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org; cdni@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02 >>> =20 >>> Kent and all, >>> =20 >>> On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi Francois. Responding to comments related to the requirements = draft >>> below. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> o an expiration time (i.e., the time at which the content files >>> should be expunged from all CDN storage). >>> " >>> I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to include this >>> expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition to = deactivation >>> time.=20 >>> I don't think this is discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you = bring >>> that up on the list with the cdni-reqts authors? >>>=20 >>> KL> I've seen references to content expiration time (i.e. removal) = in >>> some drafts. So it seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata. Noted = as >>> requirement (possibly part of availability window) unless others = object. >>> =20 >>> FLF as an Individual: that works for me. >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> " >>> The delivery of content may be further influenced by policies = which >>> may include quality of service rules that specify: >>> o the maximum resolution deliverable to specific devices, >>> o the maximum resolution deliverable though a specific NSP, or >>> o the maximum resolution deliverable to users based on their >>> subscription levels. >>> " >>> I don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc.=20 >>> It is not obvious to me that absolutely all of those ought to be in >>> phase 1. The first bullet only makes sense if the solution supports >>> transcoding/transrating, which I don't know if it will be supported = in >>> Initial scope. >>> The last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs = to >>> be aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of = user >>> subscription level). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> KL> I'm not yet convinced that this should be part of the CDNI = Metadata. >>> Based on the discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible >>> requirement for now. >>> =20 >>> FLF as a chair: I will raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot = towards the end of the WG meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what = shoudl be in scope of CDNI. This will give us some sense on the WG views = on that. >>> =20 >>> Francois >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Kent >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>> >>>=20 >>> Francois Le Faucheur >>> Distinguished Engineer >>> Corporate Development >>> flefauch@cisco.com >>> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >>> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France >>> Greenside >>> 400 Ave de Roumanille >>> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >>> France >>> Cisco.com >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> >>> Think before you print. >>>=20 >>> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>>=20 >>> Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>>=20 >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 >>> =20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> Francois Le Faucheur >> Distinguished Engineer >> Corporate Development >> flefauch@cisco.com >> Phone: +33 49 723 2619 >> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France >> Greenside >> 400 Ave de Roumanille >> 06410 Sophia Antipolis >> France >> Cisco.com >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> >> Think before you print. >>=20 >> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the = sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. >>=20 >> Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. >>=20 >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>=20 >>=20 Francois Le Faucheur Distinguished Engineer Corporate Development flefauch@cisco.com Phone: +33 49 723 2619 Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90 Cisco Systems France Greenside 400 Ave de Roumanille 06410 Sophia Antipolis France Cisco.com =20 Think before you print. This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or = disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended = recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact = the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message. Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue = Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy = les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, = Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone. For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --Apple-Mail-70-781033137 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-71-781033138 --Apple-Mail-71-781033138 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Ken, = Yiu,

Can you add into your list of tracked candidate = items something reflecting this thread? ie ensuring cdni-requirements = incorporates requirements on the CDNI Metadata interface = covering:
*A* ability to exchange a set of = well-accepted metadata elements with specified semantics (eg start of = time window, end of time window,...), AND
*B* = ability to allow exchange of opaque metadata element, whose = semantic is not defined in CDNI but left up to private CDN = agreement.

Dave Oran also privately suggested = that we expand on *B* to cover the usual distribution options for = treatment of opaque element (eg ignore-and-pass-on-when-not-understood, = etc). Which makes sense to = me.

Thanks

Francois

Begin forwarded message:

From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>= ;
Date: 28 July 2011 17:35:22 EDT
To: Francois Le = Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] = comments on = draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02

i think there could be alot of debate about = what qualifies as A.

one solution would be to = go with just B, for requirements, but
either way is ok with = me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2011, at = 5:22 PM, "Francois Le Faucheur" <flefauch@cisco.com> = wrote:


On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:54, Kevin J Ma = wrote:

Just one quick = comment: it was not necessarily the intent of the use cases to = imply
that CDNI = requirements be generated for each piece of metadata; the metadata may = be
useful for certain deployments, but opaque = metadata distribution may be sufficient?
There was = discussion early on about metadata with implied actions like: = expiration,
or = sunset/sunrise, or ssl only, or url hashing required, or content = transformation,
or do = accounting, or other proprietary optimization or policy enforcement = features,
etc., but its = not clear that we would want CDNI requirements for each of = these?
It seems like a = more generic notion of defining metadata (and their actions), = and
allowing CDNs to advertise or decline = metadata (action) support would useful, as
*A* a set = of well-accepted metadata elements with their semantics (eg start of = time window, end of time window,...), AND
*B* = probably, also a mechanism to allow exchange of opaque metadata element, = whose semantic is not defined in CDNI but up to private CDN = agreement.

I believe *A* is needed to = facilitate actual base interoperation across CDNs.
I believe = *B* is useful to allow CDNs to do extra thing on top of what has been = specified in CDNI.
Are you saying that you feel only *B* is = needed?

Cheers

Francois<= /div>
 
 Francois = Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 = 4:17 PM
To: Kent Leung = (kleung)
Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; draft-bertran= d-cdni-use-cases@tools.ietf.org; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] comments on = draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02
 
Kent and = all,
 
On 28 Jul 2011, at 16:10, Kent Leung (kleung) = wrote:
Hi Francois. =  Responding to comments related to the requirements = draft
below.


  o  an expiration time (i.e., = the time at which the content = files
     should be expunged from all CDN = storage).
"
I understand this is saying that CDNI metadata need to = include this
expiration time (triggering cache removal) , in addition = to deactivation
time. 
I don't think this is = discussed in cdni-requirements yet. Can you bring
that up on the list = with the cdni-reqts authors?

KL> I've seen references to = content expiration time (i.e. removal) in
some drafts.  So it = seems to be needed in the CDNI Metadata.  Noted as
requirement = (possibly part of availability window) unless others = object.
FLF as an Individual: = that works for me.


"
  The delivery of = content may be further influenced by policies which
  may = include quality of service rules that specify:
  o =  the maximum resolution deliverable to specific = devices,
  o  the maximum resolution deliverable = though a specific NSP, or
  o  the maximum resolution = deliverable to users based on = their
     subscription levels.
"
I = don't think this is covered in the cdni-requirements doc. 
It is not obvious to me = that absolutely all of those ought to be in
phase 1. The first bullet = only makes sense if the solution supports
transcoding/transrating, = which I don't know if it will be supported in
Initial scope.
The = last bullet does not make sense to me as we don;t want the CDNs to
be = aware of any user subscription levels (ie only CSP is aware of = user
subscription level).


KL> I'm not yet convinced = that this should be part of the CDNI Metadata.
Based on the = discussion conclusion, we can track this as possible
requirement for = now.
FLF as a chair: I = will raise a discussion in the "Open Items" slot towards the end of the = WG meeting on "Content Adaptation" and what shoudl be in scope of CDNI. = This will give us some sense on the WG views on = that.

Kent

 

Francois = Le FaucheurCorporate = Development
+33 49 723 = 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 = 90

Cisco = Systems FranceCisco.com

 Think before you = print.

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html

<image001.jpg>


Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: <= strong>+33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 = 90


Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 

<green.gif>
 Think before you = print.


Francois Le = Faucheur
Distinguished = Engineer
Corporate Development

Cisco Systems = France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia = Antipolis
France
Cisco.com

 


 Think before you = print.
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