
From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Sun Oct  2 01:30:25 2011
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From: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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To: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
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Hi Kevin,

Thanks for reading the draft, answers inline.

On 30 Sep 2011, at 05:00, Kevin J Ma wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
>  I read through the draft and had a couple of questions:
>=20
>  - The Site has a list of DeliveryGlobs which identify a set of URIs =
to
>    which Restrictions apply?

Restrictions in the form of Selection & Delivery ACLs can also be =
specified in the Site itself. The idea is that the Site lists the =
default restrictions and then DeliveryGlobs can be used to apply further =
DeliveryACL restrictions based on a pattern match against the URI.

>  Do all restrictions apply to all globs,
>    or can individual restrictions be associated with individual globs?

The restrictions specified in the Site object apply to all URIs. =
Restrictions in a particular DeliveryGlob only apply to URIs that match =
that DeliveryGlob. The first DeliveryGlob in the list that matches the =
URI is applied (i.e. the ordering of DeliveryGlobs is important).

>  - The SelectionACL seems to suggest Surrogate selection restrictions,
>    but is Surrogate information not intra-CDN information and outside
>    the scope of CDNI?

Ultimately the selection of a specific Surrogate is an intra-CDN =
function, however there is a need to be able to express surrogate =
selection policy between CDNs based on CSP policy. For example the =
ability to express a policy such as "content can be delivered to End =
Users in country X but must not be delivered from Surrogates in country =
X".

I expect that SelectionACLs will not normally contain specific lists of =
individual Surrogate IP addresses and will use Locations that reference =
class 1b names (as defined in draft-jenkins-cdni-names-00). We have a =
proposal for describing class 1b names in Locations which we will =
include in a future version of the draft (we didn't include it in the =
-00 version because we wanted folks to concentrate on feedback on the =
base approach, data model & interface specification first).

>  - The origin parameters seem HTTP specific?

The Introduction does state:

   Note: In order to make this document more accessible, it does not
   attempt to articulate all the CDNI Metadata that would be required to
   satisfy all CDNI use cases.  Rather, a smaller set of properties are
   proposed.  These should be sufficient to implement a minimal
   interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.

:-)
=20
>  Should they be encapsulated
>    based on an origin protocol?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "encapsulated" in this context, do =
you just mean naming the properties appropriately, e.g. changing =
origin.basic.active to origin.http.basic.active etc?

>  Would the origin protocol not be related
>    to the DeliveryProtocol in some way?

In general it is not possible to infer the Origin protocol from the =
Delivery protocol as a CDN may support the use of multiple different =
origin protocols for a single delivery protocol. Specifically which =
origin protocols are supported for which delivery protocols is down to =
the specific capabilities of a particular CDN.

>  Could there also be support for
>    multiple origin protocols and DeliveryProtocols within a Site?

For origin protocols that may be a possibility, although I am not sure =
how realistic it is. I would expect that the choice of origin protocol =
is selected when the origin is built/deployed and the service is =
deployed. I'm not sure that offering multiple origin protocols for a =
particular Site offers any kind of advantage over a single origin =
protocol.
=20
Having multiple DeliveryProtocols for a single Site will be problematic =
when DNS based redirection is used because at Surrogate selection time =
the Request Router does not have information on which DeliveryProtocol =
the client is intending to use and therefore would not be able to make =
an appropriate Surrogate selection because it is a common deployment =
design for each individual Surrogate to only have a subset of the =
available/supported (by that CDN) DeliveryProtocols enabled.

HTH
Ben

> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
>> Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:08 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
>>=20
>> Colleagues,
>>=20
>> We just uploaded a proposal for a CDNI Metadata model and an =
interface
>> specification for distributing CDNI Metadata (see below).
>>=20
>> This initial version does not attempt to articulate all the CDNI =
Metadata
>> that would be required to satisfy all CDNI use cases. Instead, we =
have
>> proposed a smaller set of properties that should be sufficient to
>> implement a minimal interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
>>=20
>> This is because, at this stage the important thing in our opinion is =
to
>> focus any discussion on the overall structure of the interface rather =
than
>> on the details or omission of particular properties.
>>=20
>> Our proposal is available here:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata-00
>>=20
>> Thanks
>> Ben, David & Grant
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin,

     My comments in-line ...

On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
>   We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
>   includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
>   extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific
>   devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
>   by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
>   devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.
>
Understood.
>
>
> > As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
>   ...
> > Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
>   Content providers typically implement apps today with an 
> understanding that
>   the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegates
>   delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship 
> with, the
>   app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the 
> uCDN be
>   responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?
>
That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.

The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that 
method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the 
authority to choose its own method of authentication independent of the CSP.

1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one 
for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?

2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for 
multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it 
establishes a relationship?

3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and 
all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN 
support the standard method?

4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN 
authenticates the client using their method of choice, the uCDN 
authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a 
standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the CSP 
must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but 
not necessarily the same.

In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to 
authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?

Scott
>
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > Scott Wainner
> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >    This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> > too have such an agreement.
> >
> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >    Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >
> >    o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not 
> DASH)
> >    o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >    o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >
> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >
> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >
> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> > arrangement for distribution)
> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> > the user access to the content)
> >
> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> > Scott
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>


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    Kevin,<br>
    <br>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My comments in-line ...<br>
    <br>
    On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C651B4FF2383@MAILR002.mail.lan"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta name="Generator" content="MS Exchange Server version
        6.5.7655.10">
      <title>RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</title>
      <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
      <p><font size="2">Hi Scott,<br>
          <br>
          &nbsp; We are currently updating section 2.3.&nbsp; I think the nomadic
          use case<br>
          &nbsp; includes not only geographic extension, but more generically
          footprint<br>
          &nbsp; extension.&nbsp; A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense
          for specific<br>
          &nbsp; devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device
          footprint<br>
          &nbsp; by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that
          supports other<br>
          &nbsp; devices or subscribers.&nbsp; We are also looking at removing
          section 5.1.3.<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    Understood.<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C651B4FF2383@MAILR002.mail.lan"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          &nbsp; &gt; As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended<br>
          &nbsp; &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
          appended hashes.<br>
          &nbsp; ...<br>
          &nbsp; &gt; Clearly, the choice of<br>
          &nbsp; &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective
          CDN's.<br>
          <br>
          &nbsp; Content providers typically implement apps today with an
          understanding that<br>
          &nbsp; the uCDN has a specific authentication method.&nbsp; If the uCDN
          delegates<br>
          &nbsp; delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no
          relationship with, the<br>
          &nbsp; app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.&nbsp;
          Would the uCDN be<br>
          &nbsp; responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials
          for the user?<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    That is exactly my point.&nbsp; I don't have an answer.<br>
    <br>
    The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however,
    that method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which
    has the authority to choose its own method of authentication
    independent of the CSP.<br>
    <br>
    1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods -
    one for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?<br>
    <br>
    2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for
    multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it
    establishes a relationship?<br>
    <br>
    3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client
    and all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and
    dCDN support the standard method?<br>
    <br>
    4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN
    authenticates the client using their method of choice, the uCDN
    authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines
    a standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?&nbsp; In this case,
    the CSP must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are
    equivalent but not necessarily the same.<br>
    <br>
    In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to
    authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?<br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C651B4FF2383@MAILR002.mail.lan"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          thanx.<br>
          <br>
          --&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<br>
          <br>
          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
          On Behalf Of<br>
          &gt; Scott Wainner<br>
          &gt; Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM<br>
          &gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of
          Geographic Extension yet<br>
          &gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different
          device is used in<br>
          &gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use case
          needs to be<br>
          &gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
          scenario where<br>
          &gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
          content from CSP-A<br>
          &gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp; The dCDN
          is allowed to<br>
          &gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not
          other users in<br>
          &gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the
          content unless they<br>
          &gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the
          restrictions on the<br>
          &gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the
          ability of a CDN<br>
          &gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly understand the
          case where a<br>
          &gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a
          "managed path" if<br>
          &gt; such content is HD while allowing the content
          distribution via an<br>
          &gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply
          to encryption<br>
          &gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the contrary, the
          dCDN may have<br>
          &gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD
          content while<br>
          &gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a
          subset of<br>
          &gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS,
          HSS, but not DASH)<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't
          want to offer high<br>
          &gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE
          but I don't<br>
          &gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN
          and dCDN, I think<br>
          &gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the
          principle contract<br>
          &gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
          &gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the
          transitive trust<br>
          &gt; relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
          above)<br>
          &gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
          recognition of right<br>
          &gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
          &gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the
          contract authorizing<br>
          &gt; the user access to the content)<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c
          relationship. The user<br>
          &gt; is only interested in the transparency and
          interoperability of the<br>
          &gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point
          that the<br>
          &gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery
          is initiated<br>
          &gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might use
          URL appended<br>
          &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
          appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
          &gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
          transparency<br>
          &gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
          defined when<br>
          &gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.&nbsp;
          Clearly, the choice of<br>
          &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective
          CDN's.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Scott<br>
          &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
        </font>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct  3 11:24:51 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 14:27:46 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
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Hi Ben,

  Thanx for the clarifications.  In response to your question:

  > I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "encapsulated" in this context, d=
o
  > you just mean naming the properties appropriately, e.g. changing
  > origin.basic.active to origin.http.basic.active etc?

  This is pretty much what I meant, along with perhaps an origin.http.enabl=
ed
  property for the case where there are multiple protocol options and only =
a
  subset of protocols are supported.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 4:33 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
>=20
> Hi Kevin,
>=20
> Thanks for reading the draft, answers inline.
>=20
> On 30 Sep 2011, at 05:00, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> >  I read through the draft and had a couple of questions:
> >
> >  - The Site has a list of DeliveryGlobs which identify a set of URIs to
> >    which Restrictions apply?
>=20
> Restrictions in the form of Selection & Delivery ACLs can also be
> specified in the Site itself. The idea is that the Site lists the default
> restrictions and then DeliveryGlobs can be used to apply further
> DeliveryACL restrictions based on a pattern match against the URI.
>=20
> >  Do all restrictions apply to all globs,
> >    or can individual restrictions be associated with individual globs?
>=20
> The restrictions specified in the Site object apply to all URIs.
> Restrictions in a particular DeliveryGlob only apply to URIs that match
> that DeliveryGlob. The first DeliveryGlob in the list that matches the UR=
I
> is applied (i.e. the ordering of DeliveryGlobs is important).
>=20
> >  - The SelectionACL seems to suggest Surrogate selection restrictions,
> >    but is Surrogate information not intra-CDN information and outside
> >    the scope of CDNI?
>=20
> Ultimately the selection of a specific Surrogate is an intra-CDN function=
,
> however there is a need to be able to express surrogate selection policy
> between CDNs based on CSP policy. For example the ability to express a
> policy such as "content can be delivered to End Users in country X but
> must not be delivered from Surrogates in country X".
>=20
> I expect that SelectionACLs will not normally contain specific lists of
> individual Surrogate IP addresses and will use Locations that reference
> class 1b names (as defined in draft-jenkins-cdni-names-00). We have a
> proposal for describing class 1b names in Locations which we will include
> in a future version of the draft (we didn't include it in the -00 version
> because we wanted folks to concentrate on feedback on the base approach,
> data model & interface specification first).
>=20
> >  - The origin parameters seem HTTP specific?
>=20
> The Introduction does state:
>=20
>    Note: In order to make this document more accessible, it does not
>    attempt to articulate all the CDNI Metadata that would be required to
>    satisfy all CDNI use cases.  Rather, a smaller set of properties are
>    proposed.  These should be sufficient to implement a minimal
>    interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
>=20
> :-)
>=20
> >  Should they be encapsulated
> >    based on an origin protocol?
>=20
> I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "encapsulated" in this context, do
> you just mean naming the properties appropriately, e.g. changing
> origin.basic.active to origin.http.basic.active etc?
>=20
> >  Would the origin protocol not be related
> >    to the DeliveryProtocol in some way?
>=20
> In general it is not possible to infer the Origin protocol from the
> Delivery protocol as a CDN may support the use of multiple different
> origin protocols for a single delivery protocol. Specifically which origi=
n
> protocols are supported for which delivery protocols is down to the
> specific capabilities of a particular CDN.
>=20
> >  Could there also be support for
> >    multiple origin protocols and DeliveryProtocols within a Site?
>=20
> For origin protocols that may be a possibility, although I am not sure ho=
w
> realistic it is. I would expect that the choice of origin protocol is
> selected when the origin is built/deployed and the service is deployed.
> I'm not sure that offering multiple origin protocols for a particular Sit=
e
> offers any kind of advantage over a single origin protocol.
>=20
> Having multiple DeliveryProtocols for a single Site will be problematic
> when DNS based redirection is used because at Surrogate selection time th=
e
> Request Router does not have information on which DeliveryProtocol the
> client is intending to use and therefore would not be able to make an
> appropriate Surrogate selection because it is a common deployment design
> for each individual Surrogate to only have a subset of the
> available/supported (by that CDN) DeliveryProtocols enabled.
>=20
> HTH
> Ben
>=20
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> >> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:08 AM
> >> To: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
> >>
> >> Colleagues,
> >>
> >> We just uploaded a proposal for a CDNI Metadata model and an interface
> >> specification for distributing CDNI Metadata (see below).
> >>
> >> This initial version does not attempt to articulate all the CDNI
> Metadata
> >> that would be required to satisfy all CDNI use cases. Instead, we have
> >> proposed a smaller set of properties that should be sufficient to
> >> implement a minimal interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
> >>
> >> This is because, at this stage the important thing in our opinion is t=
o
> >> focus any discussion on the overall structure of the interface rather
> than
> >> on the details or omission of particular properties.
> >>
> >> Our proposal is available here:
> >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata-00
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Ben, David & Grant
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Scott Wainner <swainner@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 14:27:50 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Scott,

  One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow deleg=
ation.
  In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the authenti=
cation
  method on each CDN?  If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN=
 would
 have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?  =
That
 brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does not wan=
t to
 deal with?  For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most importan=
t.
  That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or possibly a =
proxy
 where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so that=
 the
 client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?

  wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs expan=
ded, or
  that additional use cases are required?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Kevin,

    My comments in-line ...

On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:

Hi Scott,

  We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
  includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
  extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific
  devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
  by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
  devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.
Understood.


  > As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
  > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
  ...
  > Clearly, the choice of
  > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

  Content providers typically implement apps today with an understanding th=
at
  the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegates
  delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship with, th=
e
  app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the uCDN=
 be
  responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?
That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.

The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that met=
hod of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the author=
ity to choose its own method of authentication independent of the CSP.

1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one for =
each uCDN it establishes a relationship?

2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for multip=
le authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it establishes a re=
lationship?

3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and all=
 CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN support th=
e standard method?

4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN authenticates =
the client using their method of choice, the uCDN authenticates clients usi=
ng their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a standard proxy method between=
 the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the CSP must accept that the methods use=
d by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not necessarily the same.

In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to authenti=
cate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?

Scott


thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bo=
unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Scott Wainner
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>    This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> too have such an agreement.
>
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>    Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>
>    o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>    o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> bit-rate variants of the media
>    o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> the user access to the content)
>
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US=
 link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'=
>Hi Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:windowtext'>&nbsp; One option is that CPs that want strict=
 authentication do not allow delegation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:win=
dowtext'>&nbsp; In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configur=
e the authentication<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'>&nbsp; met=
hod on each CDN?&nbsp; If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN=
 would<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'> &nbsp;have to configure =
the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?&nbsp; That<o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New";color:windowtext'> &nbsp;brings up other transative trust i=
ssues that this CP probably does not want to<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:windowtext'> &nbsp;deal with?&nbsp; For other CPs, imo, end user transpar=
ency is the most important.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'>&nbs=
p; That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or possibly a=
 proxy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'> &nbsp;where the dCDN sen=
ds the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so that the<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:windowtext'> &nbsp;client does not need to know anything a=
bout the dCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Courier New";color:windowtext'>&nbsp; wrt the use case draft, do you feel=
 that the security section needs expanded, or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:windowtext'>&nbsp; that additional use cases are required?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowte=
xt'>thanx.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:windowtext'>--&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";=
color:windowtext'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;bor=
der-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'bor=
der:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Scott Wainner [mailto:sw=
ainner@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM<br><b>T=
o:</b> Kevin J Ma<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi]=
 I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Kevin,<b=
r><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My comments in-line ...<br><br>On 9/30/11 10:45 AM=
, Kevin J Ma wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Hi S=
cott,<br><br>&nbsp; We are currently updating section 2.3.&nbsp; I think th=
e nomadic use case<br>&nbsp; includes not only geographic extension, but mo=
re generically footprint<br>&nbsp; extension.&nbsp; A carrier CDN with only=
 an in-network presense for specific<br>&nbsp; devices (e.g., mobile vs TV)=
 may want to increase its device footprint<br>&nbsp; by interconnecting wit=
h another local carrier CDN that supports other<br>&nbsp; devices or subscr=
ibers.&nbsp; We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Understood.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><br>&nbsp; &gt; As an example, the uCDN might use URL=
 appended<br>&nbsp; &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL=
 appended hashes.<br>&nbsp; ...<br>&nbsp; &gt; Clearly, the choice of<br>&n=
bsp; &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.<br><=
br>&nbsp; Content providers typically implement apps today with an understa=
nding that<br>&nbsp; the uCDN has a specific authentication method.&nbsp; I=
f the uCDN delegates<br>&nbsp; delivery to a dCDN that the content provider=
 has no relationship with, the<br>&nbsp; app may have no ability to switch =
authentication methods.&nbsp; Would the uCDN be<br>&nbsp; responsible for g=
enerating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?</span><o:p></o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>That is exactly my point.&nbsp; I don't have an answe=
r.<br><br>The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however=
, that method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has =
the authority to choose its own method of authentication independent of the=
 CSP.<br><br>1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication metho=
ds - one for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?<br><br>2. Does the uC=
DN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for multiple authenticat=
ion methods - one for each dCDN for which it establishes a relationship?<br=
><br>3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client an=
d all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN suppo=
rt the standard method?<br><br>4. Do we define a proxy authentication metho=
d where the dCDN authenticates the client using their method of choice, the=
 uCDN authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines =
a standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?&nbsp; In this case, the =
CSP must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but n=
ot necessarily the same.<br><br>In what manner is the client informed of th=
e appropriate method to authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN=
 or uCDN?<br><br>Scott<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt'><br>thanx.<br><br>--&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<br><br>&gt; -----Original Mess=
age-----<br>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounce=
s@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>&gt; Scott Wainner<br>&gt; Sent: Thursday, =
September 29, 2011 8:02 PM<br>&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdn=
i@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-=
cases-00.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet=
<br>&gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different device is us=
ed in<br>&gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use case=
 needs to be<br>&gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to add=
ress the scenario where<br>&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing=
 access to content from CSP-A<br>&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a differe=
nt region.&nbsp; The dCDN is allowed to<br>&gt; distribute the content of C=
SP-A to User-A; however, not other users in<br>&gt; the region of the dCDN =
are allowed to retrieve the content unless they<br>&gt; too have such an ag=
reement.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>&gt=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions=
 on the<br>&gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the abi=
lity of a CDN<br>&gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly unders=
tand the case where a<br>&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content=
 to a &quot;managed path&quot; if<br>&gt; such content is HD while allowing=
 the content distribution via an<br>&gt; un-managed path if such content is=
 SD (same could apply to encryption<br>&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.=
).&nbsp; On the contrary, the dCDN may have<br>&gt; its own restrictions of=
 blocking the distribution of HD content while<br>&gt; allowing the distrib=
ution of SD content.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes=
 sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>&gt; encapsulations for a ref=
erence set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high<br>&=
gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet=
 make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't<br>&gt; think subscribe=
r rights/authorizations apply.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Section 10 Security Consider=
ations<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uC=
DN and dCDN, I think<br>&gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle co=
ntract<br>&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>&gt; b. The relationship be=
tween the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust<br>&gt; relationship that ext=
ends the contract defined in (a) above)<br>&gt; c. The relationship between=
 the User and dCDN (the recognition of right<br>&gt; to download predicated=
 on (b) above)<br>&gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the co=
ntract authorizing<br>&gt; the user access to the content)<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =
The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user<br=
>&gt; is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the<br=
>&gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the<br>&gt=
; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated<br>=
&gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might use URL app=
ended<br>&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended h=
ashes.&nbsp; The<br>&gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct metho=
ds, but transparency<br>&gt; is only afforded if the methods are interopera=
ble clearly defined when<br>&gt; the delegation for content delivery is exe=
cuted.&nbsp; Clearly, the choice of<br>&gt; authentication method is determ=
ined by the respective CDN's.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Scott<br>&gt; _______________=
________________________________<br>&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>&gt; <a href=
=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni<=
/a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></=
div></body></html>=

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From swainner@cisco.com  Mon Oct  3 12:21:51 2011
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Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 15:27:35 -0400
From: Scott Wainner <swainner@cisco.com>
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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I think any of the uses presume that the security infrastructure 
facilitates interoperability as I previously described in options 1, 2, 
3, and 4.  In the absence of an interoperable security framework, you 
have no viable use case.

Perhaps the use case documents simply need to call out the per-requisite 
for negotiating a security method between the 4 parties or a method for 
confirming authorization along the chain of trust (CSP -> uCDN -> dCDN 
-> client).

A requirement for negotiating or confirming security of the download 
should be in the Requirements document.

Scott

On 10/3/11 2:27 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
>   One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow 
> delegation.
>
>   In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the 
> authentication
>
>   method on each CDN?  If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the 
> uCDN would
>
>  have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, 
> etc.)?  That
>
>  brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does 
> not want to
>
>  deal with?  For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most 
> important.
>
>   That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or 
> possibly a proxy
>
>  where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so 
> that the
>
>  client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?
>
>   wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs 
> expanded, or
>
>   that additional use cases are required?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> *From:*Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
> *To:* Kevin J Ma
> *Cc:* cdni@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
>     My comments in-line ...
>
> On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
>
>   We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
>   includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
>   extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific
>   devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
>   by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
>   devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.
>
> Understood.
>
>
> > As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
>   ...
> > Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
>   Content providers typically implement apps today with an 
> understanding that
>   the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegates
>   delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship 
> with, the
>   app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the 
> uCDN be
>   responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?
>
> That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.
>
> The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, 
> that method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which 
> has the authority to choose its own method of authentication 
> independent of the CSP.
>
> 1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one 
> for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?
>
> 2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for 
> multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it 
> establishes a relationship?
>
> 3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client 
> and all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and 
> dCDN support the standard method?
>
> 4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN 
> authenticates the client using their method of choice, the uCDN 
> authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a 
> standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the 
> CSP must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent 
> but not necessarily the same.
>
> In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to 
> authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?
>
> Scott
>
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> 
> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > Scott Wainner
> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org <mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >    This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> > too have such an agreement.
> >
> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >    Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >
> >    o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
> >    o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >    o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >
> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >
> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >
> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> > arrangement for distribution)
> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> > the user access to the content)
> >
> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> > Scott
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org <mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>


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    I think any of the uses presume that the security infrastructure
    facilitates interoperability as I previously described in options 1,
    2, 3, and 4.&nbsp; In the absence of an interoperable security framework,
    you have no viable use case.<br>
    <br>
    Perhaps the use case documents simply need to call out the
    per-requisite for negotiating a security method between the 4
    parties or a method for confirming authorization along the chain of
    trust (CSP -&gt; uCDN -&gt; dCDN -&gt; client).<br>
    <br>
    A requirement for negotiating or confirming security of the download
    should be in the Requirements document.<br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <br>
    On 10/3/11 2:27 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:291CC3F9E50E7641901A54E85D0977C651B50AEDAA@MAILR002.mail.lan"
      type="cite">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
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      <title>RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</title>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">Hi Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; One option is that CPs that
            want strict authentication do not allow delegation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; In a non-interconnected
            environment, the CP has to configure the authentication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; method on each CDN?&nbsp; If the
            uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN would<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"> &nbsp;have to configure the dCDN on
            behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?&nbsp; That<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"> &nbsp;brings up other transative
            trust issues that this CP probably does not want to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"> &nbsp;deal with?&nbsp; For other CPs,
            imo, end user transparency is the most important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; That could mean options 1 or 3
            as you describe them below, or possibly a proxy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"> &nbsp;where the dCDN sends the
            credentials to the uCDN for verification, so that the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"> &nbsp;client does not need to know
            anything about the dCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; wrt the use case draft, do you
            feel that the security section needs expanded, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">&nbsp; that additional use cases are
            required?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">thanx.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext">--&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;color:windowtext"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
          0in 0in 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">
                  Scott Wainner [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>] <br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Kevin J Ma<br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
                  draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Kevin,<br>
            <br>
            &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My comments in-line ...<br>
            <br>
            On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Hi Scott,<br>
              <br>
              &nbsp; We are currently updating section 2.3.&nbsp; I think the
              nomadic use case<br>
              &nbsp; includes not only geographic extension, but more
              generically footprint<br>
              &nbsp; extension.&nbsp; A carrier CDN with only an in-network
              presense for specific<br>
              &nbsp; devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its
              device footprint<br>
              &nbsp; by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that
              supports other<br>
              &nbsp; devices or subscribers.&nbsp; We are also looking at removing
              section 5.1.3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Understood.<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
              &nbsp; &gt; As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended<br>
              &nbsp; &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
              appended hashes.<br>
              &nbsp; ...<br>
              &nbsp; &gt; Clearly, the choice of<br>
              &nbsp; &gt; authentication method is determined by the
              respective CDN's.<br>
              <br>
              &nbsp; Content providers typically implement apps today with an
              understanding that<br>
              &nbsp; the uCDN has a specific authentication method.&nbsp; If the
              uCDN delegates<br>
              &nbsp; delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no
              relationship with, the<br>
              &nbsp; app may have no ability to switch authentication
              methods.&nbsp; Would the uCDN be<br>
              &nbsp; responsible for generating of the proper dCDN
              credentials for the user?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">That is exactly my point.&nbsp; I don't have
            an answer.<br>
            <br>
            The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication;
            however, that method of authentication may not be supported
            on the dCDN which has the authority to choose its own method
            of authentication independent of the CSP.<br>
            <br>
            1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication
            methods - one for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?<br>
            <br>
            2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the
            CSP) for multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN
            for which it establishes a relationship?<br>
            <br>
            3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the
            client and all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and
            all uCDN and dCDN support the standard method?<br>
            <br>
            4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN
            authenticates the client using their method of choice, the
            uCDN authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND
            CDNi defines a standard proxy method between the dCDN and
            uCDN?&nbsp; In this case, the CSP must accept that the methods
            used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not necessarily the
            same.<br>
            <br>
            In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate
            method to authenticate their transaction with either the
            dCDN or uCDN?<br>
            <br>
            Scott<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
              thanx.<br>
              <br>
              --&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<br>
              <br>
              &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
              &gt; From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>
              [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              On Behalf Of<br>
              &gt; Scott Wainner<br>
              &gt; Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM<br>
              &gt; To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
              &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
              draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
              &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of
              Geographic Extension yet<br>
              &gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different
              device is used in<br>
              &gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use
              case needs to be<br>
              &gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to address
              the scenario where<br>
              &gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
              content from CSP-A<br>
              &gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp; The
              dCDN is allowed to<br>
              &gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however,
              not other users in<br>
              &gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the
              content unless they<br>
              &gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
              &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the
              restrictions on the<br>
              &gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on
              the ability of a CDN<br>
              &gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly understand
              the case where a<br>
              &gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a
              "managed path" if<br>
              &gt; such content is HD while allowing the content
              distribution via an<br>
              &gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could
              apply to encryption<br>
              &gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the contrary,
              the dCDN may have<br>
              &gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of
              HD content while<br>
              &gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform
              a subset of<br>
              &gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g.
              HLS, HSS, but not DASH)<br>
              &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't
              want to offer high<br>
              &gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
              &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses
              QoE but I don't<br>
              &gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the
              uCDN and dCDN, I think<br>
              &gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the
              principle contract<br>
              &gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
              &gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the
              transitive trust<br>
              &gt; relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
              above)<br>
              &gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
              recognition of right<br>
              &gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
              &gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the
              contract authorizing<br>
              &gt; the user access to the content)<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c
              relationship. The user<br>
              &gt; is only interested in the transparency and
              interoperability of the<br>
              &gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point
              that the<br>
              &gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the
              delivery is initiated<br>
              &gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might
              use URL appended<br>
              &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
              appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
              &gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods,
              but transparency<br>
              &gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable
              clearly defined when<br>
              &gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.&nbsp;
              Clearly, the choice of<br>
              &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective
              CDN's.<br>
              &gt;<br>
              &gt; Scott<br>
              &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
              &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
              &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
              &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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From gilles.bertrand@orange.com  Tue Oct  4 02:44:45 2011
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Hi Scott,

Thanks for your review.

- "Section 2.3 Nomadic Users" =3D> I fully agree, we will clarify this =
section.=20

- "Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions" =3D> we will most =
probably remove this section, because it is not clear enough as you =
highlighted and as Kent and Fran=E7ois previously noted in their review =
of draft-bertrand-cdni-use-cases-02.

- "Section 10 Security Considerations" =3D> I agree with your proposal =
to express "the pre-requisite for negotiating a security method between =
the 4 parties or a method for confirming authorization along the chain =
of trust (CSP -> uCDN -> dCDN -> client).". I think it will clarify the =
issues.=20

Cheers,

Gilles


-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] De la part =
de Scott Wainner
Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 30 septembre 2011 02:02
=C0=A0: cdni@ietf.org
Objet=A0: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet =
the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in =
the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be =
clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where =
a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A =
via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to =
distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in =
the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they =
too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the =
delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN =
to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a =
CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if =
such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an =
un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption =
methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have =
its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while =
allowing the distribution of SD content.

   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of =
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not =
DASH)
   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high =
bit-rate variants of the media
   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't =
think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think =
we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract =
arrangement for distribution) b. The relationship between the uCDN and =
dCDN (the transitive trust relationship that extends the contract =
defined in (a) above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the =
recognition of right to download predicated on (b) above) d. The =
relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user =
access to the content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user =
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the =
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the =
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated =
via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended =
tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The =
user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency =
is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when =
the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of =
authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

Scott
_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com  Wed Oct  5 14:36:25 2011
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
To: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Nomcom 2011-2012: Second Call for Nominations 
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Please note this Nomcom request for nominations for open positions, as well=
 as feedback for current nominees. Thanks.

-- Rich & Francois

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of NomCom Chair
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:06 PM
To: IETF Announcement list
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Nomcom 2011-2012: Second Call for Nominations=20

Hi All,

We are halfway through the nomination period (it ends on October 2, 2011) a=
nd we need more nominees than we have received so far. We appreciate the fo=
lks that have taken the time to nominate people and those who have accepted=
 so far. But the fact remains that the number of nominations have been belo=
w average and the acceptance rates of those nominated has also been low.

We need **YOUR** input and participation! We cannot properly execute the ta=
sk of selecting the best candidates for these positions with so few nominat=
ions and acceptances. So, please consider making nominations for the open p=
ositions, in particular
those for which we have so few nominations   it takes just a few
minutes of your time.  Right now, we just need the names/email addresses.

Why do we need more nominations?  Well, even if you think a willing incumbe=
nt is doing a very good job and should be returned, his or her ability to s=
erve again might be impacted by unforeseen circumstances between now and Ma=
rch. NomCom needs to consider multiple nominees to be prepared in the event=
 one or more candidates is unable to serve come next March and to ensure we=
 have chosen the best candidate.

There are several ways you can help the Nomcom

- You can nominate yourself.
- You can nominate someone you know whom you think would do a
  good job.

Don't worry about whether they might already be nominated. We would much pr=
efer to receive the same nomination several times rather than miss a good p=
erson we should consider.

How to submit Nominations:
--------------------------

The list of positions we need to fill, and the provided Job Descriptions, a=
nd forms for nominations, can be found in the call for nominations at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/ann/nomcom/3049/

You can enter a nomination by going to the following URL:=20

https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2011/nominate

You can also nominate someone by sending an email to nomcom11@ietf.org and =
giving us their name, email address and the open position you are nominatin=
g them for. We will take care of the rest.

If you are asked for a user name and password, use an existing ietf login a=
nd password. If you need a login and password, request one from the followi=
ng URL:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/accounts/create/


Open List:
----------

As you already know, NomCom 2011-2012 will follow the policy for "Open Disc=
losure of Willing Nominees" described in RFC 5680.

Feedback Collection:
--------------------

The open list is currently available on the Nomcom page and the entire comm=
unity is invited to provide feedback on all nominees.
You can provide your comments on all willing nominees at the following URL:

https://www.ietf.org/group/nomcom/2011/input/

Suresh Krishnan
Chair, NomCom 2011-2012
nomcom-chair@ietf.org
suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com

From spencer@wonderhamster.org  Thu Oct  6 10:04:33 2011
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From: "Spencer Dawkins" <spencer@wonderhamster.org>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
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Hi, Ben,

Just checking - would this draft be the place where text on handling of 
unknown metadata elements would be included?

Thanks,

Spencer

> Colleagues,
>
> We just uploaded a proposal for a CDNI Metadata model and an interface 
> specification for distributing CDNI Metadata (see below).
>
> This initial version does not attempt to articulate all the CDNI Metadata 
> that would be required to satisfy all CDNI use cases. Instead, we have 
> proposed a smaller set of properties that should be sufficient to 
> implement a minimal interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
>
> This is because, at this stage the important thing in our opinion is to 
> focus any discussion on the overall structure of the interface rather than 
> on the details or omission of particular properties.
>
> Our proposal is available here:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata-00
>
> Thanks
> Ben, David & Grant
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> 


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Thu Oct  6 22:18:14 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 01:21:20 -0400
Thread-Topic: CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi all,

  Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:

    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt

  The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
  to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
  associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma


From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Sat Oct  8 00:17:40 2011
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Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2011 07:20:39 +0000
From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet 
the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in 
the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be 
clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where 
a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A 
via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to 
distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in 
the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they 
too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the 
delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN 
to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a 
CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if 
such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an 
un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption 
methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have 
its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while 
allowing the distribution of SD content.

   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of 
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high 
bit-rate variants of the media
   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't 
think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think 
we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract 
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust 
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right 
to download predicated on (b) above)
d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing 
the user access to the content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user 
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the 
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the 
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated 
via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended 
tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The 
user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency 
is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when 
the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of 
authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

Scott


From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 13:58:26 2011
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Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:01:36 -0700
Message-ID: <CAOyVPHQV0REJPN21SJ_g_5QGs1DhH_K1Ty5-MSxqsDLq6BNbaA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364270620b812c04aecfdd88
Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Kevin,

I think Scott has a point when he says that we need to define some base
authentication method to be supported between the CDN's.

Ofcourse in particular cases if a particular authentication method is
required it could mean to disallow delegation to a dCDN.

Thanks,
Vishwas
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>wrote:

>  Hi Scott,****
>
> ** **
>
>   One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow
> delegation.****
>
>   In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the
> authentication****
>
>   method on each CDN?  If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN
> would****
>
>  have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?
> That****
>
>  brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does not
> want to****
>
>  deal with?  For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most
> important.****
>
>   That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or possibly a
> proxy****
>
>  where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so that
> the****
>
>  client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?****
>
> ** **
>
>   wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs
> expanded, or****
>
>   that additional use cases are required?****
>
> ** **
>
> thanx.****
>
> ** **
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
> *To:* Kevin J Ma
> *Cc:* cdni@ietf.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt****
>
>   ** **
>
> Kevin,
>
>     My comments in-line ...
>
> On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: ****
>
> Hi Scott,
>
>   We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
>   includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
>   extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific
>   devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
>   by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
>   devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.*
> ***
>
> Understood.
>
> ****
>
>
>   > As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
>   > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
>   ...
>   > Clearly, the choice of
>   > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
>   Content providers typically implement apps today with an understanding
> that
>   the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegates
>   delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship with,
> the
>   app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the uCDN
> be
>   responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?*
> ***
>
> That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.
>
> The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that
> method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the
> authority to choose its own method of authentication independent of the CSP.
>
> 1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one for
> each uCDN it establishes a relationship?
>
> 2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for
> multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it establishes
> a relationship?
>
> 3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and all
> CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN support the
> standard method?
>
> 4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN authenticates
> the client using their method of choice, the uCDN authenticates clients
> using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a standard proxy method
> between the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the CSP must accept that the
> methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not necessarily the same.
>
> In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to
> authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?
>
> Scott
>
> ****
>
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<cdni-bounces@ietf.org>]
> On Behalf Of
> > Scott Wainner
> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >    This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> > too have such an agreement.
> >
> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >    Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >
> >    o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
> >    o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >    o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >
> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >
> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >
> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> > arrangement for distribution)
> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> > the user access to the content)
> >
> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> > Scott
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni****
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
>

--0016364270620b812c04aecfdd88
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Hi Kevin,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I think Scott has a point when he says that we need to define some bas=
e authentication method to be supported between the CDN&#39;s. </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Ofcourse in particular cases if a particular authentication method is =
required it could mean to disallow delegation to a dCDN.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Vishwas<br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Kevin J Ma <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azu=
kisystems.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" bgcolor=3D"white" vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">Hi Scott,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 One option is that CPs that want str=
ict authentication do not allow delegation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 In a non-interconnected environment,=
 the CP has to configure the authentication<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 method on each CDN?=A0 If the uCDN i=
s going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN would<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0have to configure the dCDN on behalf =
of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?=A0 That<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0brings up other transative trust issu=
es that this CP probably does not want to<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0deal with?=A0 For other CPs, imo, end=
 user transparency is the most important.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 That could mean options 1 or 3 as yo=
u describe them below, or possibly a proxy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0where the dCDN sends the credentials =
to the uCDN for verification, so that the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0client does not need to know anything=
 about the dCDN?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 wrt the use case draft, do you feel =
that the security section needs expanded, or<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">=A0 that additional use cases are requir=
ed?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div class=3D"im">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">thanx.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;">--=A0 Kevin J. Ma<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; F=
ONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span></p></div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: me=
dium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt =
solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<div>
<div style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b=
5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: mediu=
m none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext=
">From:</span></b><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext"> Scott=
 Wainner [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:swainner@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">sw=
ainner@cisco.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kevin J Ma<br><=
b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">cdni@ietf.org<=
/a>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdn=
i-use-cases-00.txt<u></u><u></u></div></div></span>
<p></p></p></div></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kevin,<br><br>=A0=A0=A0 My comments in-line ...<br><=
br>On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote: <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi Scott,<br><br>=A0 We are currently up=
dating section 2.3.=A0 I think the nomadic use case<br>=A0 includes not onl=
y geographic extension, but more generically footprint<br>=A0 extension.=A0=
 A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific<br>
=A0 devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint<=
br>=A0 by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports othe=
r<br>=A0 devices or subscribers.=A0 We are also looking at removing section=
 5.1.3.</span><u></u><u></u></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Understood.<br><br><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>=A0 &gt; As an example, the uCDN mig=
ht use URL appended<br>=A0 &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might =
use URL appended hashes.<br>=A0 ...<br>=A0 &gt; Clearly, the choice of<br>=
=A0 &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN&#39;s.<b=
r>
<br>=A0 Content providers typically implement apps today with an understand=
ing that<br>=A0 the uCDN has a specific authentication method.=A0 If the uC=
DN delegates<br>=A0 delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no rel=
ationship with, the<br>
=A0 app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.=A0 Would the =
uCDN be<br>=A0 responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials fo=
r the user?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That is exactly my point.=A0 I don&#39;t have an ans=
wer.<br><br>The CSP may accept the uCDN&#39;s approach to authentication; h=
owever, that method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN whic=
h has the authority to choose its own method of authentication independent =
of the CSP.<br>
<br>1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one =
for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?<br><br>2. Does the uCDN have t=
o support (and get approval from the CSP) for multiple authentication metho=
ds - one for each dCDN for which it establishes a relationship?<br>
<br>3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and=
 all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN suppor=
t the standard method?<br><br>4. Do we define a proxy authentication method=
 where the dCDN authenticates the client using their method of choice, the =
uCDN authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a=
 standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?=A0 In this case, the CSP =
must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not n=
ecessarily the same.<br>
<br>In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to auth=
enticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?<br><br>Scott<br><b=
r><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><br>thanx.<br><br>--=A0 Kevin J. Ma<br><=
br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a href=3D"mail=
to:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a=
>] On Behalf Of<br>
&gt; Scott Wainner<br>&gt; Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM<br>&g=
t; To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">cdni@ietf.org</a>=
<br>&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<b=
r>
&gt;<br>&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>&gt;=A0=A0=A0 This description fa=
lls under the category of Geographic Extension yet<br>&gt; the third paragr=
aph states the case where a different device is used in<br>&gt; the same CD=
N coverage area.=A0 The intent of this use case needs to be<br>
&gt; clarified.=A0 Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario w=
here<br>&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content =
from CSP-A<br>&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.=A0 The d=
CDN is allowed to<br>
&gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in=
<br>&gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless =
they<br>&gt; too have such an agreement.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Section 5.1.3 Cont=
ent Encoding Restrictions<br>
&gt;=A0=A0=A0 Need to clarify if we&#39;re talking about the restrictions o=
n the<br>&gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the abili=
ty of a CDN<br>&gt; to deliver specific content.=A0 I certainly understand =
the case where a<br>
&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a &quot;managed path&=
quot; if<br>&gt; such content is HD while allowing the content distribution=
 via an<br>&gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to =
encryption<br>
&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).=A0 On the contrary, the dCDN may hav=
e<br>&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content w=
hile<br>&gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;=A0=A0=
=A0 o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>
&gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DA=
SH)<br>&gt;=A0=A0=A0 o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn&#39;t=
 want to offer high<br>&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>&gt;=A0=A0=A0=
 o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don&#39;t<br>
&gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Section =
10 Security Considerations<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Aside from the security consider=
ations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think<br>&gt; we can describe this in fo=
ur contexts:<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principl=
e contract<br>&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>&gt; b. The relationshi=
p between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust<br>&gt; relationship that=
 extends the contract defined in (a) above)<br>
&gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of righ=
t<br>&gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>&gt; d. The relationship =
between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing<br>&gt; the user access =
to the content)<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship=
. The user<br>&gt; is only interested in the transparency and interoperabil=
ity of the<br>&gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point th=
at the<br>
&gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated<=
br>&gt; via either d-b or d-c.=A0 As an example, the uCDN might use URL app=
ended<br>&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended h=
ashes.=A0 The<br>
&gt; user doesn&#39;t want to know about the distinct methods, but transpar=
ency<br>&gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defi=
ned when<br>&gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.=A0 Clearl=
y, the choice of<br>
&gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN&#39;s.<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt; Scott<br>&gt; _______________________________________________<br=
>&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><=
br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br>=
<a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

--0016364270620b812c04aecfdd88--

From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Sat Oct  8 15:42:40 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 18:45:49 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Vishwas,

  Just to clarify, when you say "between the CDNs", we are still
  taking about CDNs authenticating end users, as opposed to CDNs
  authenticating each other, correct?

  I do think that CDNs will need to be able to authenticate with
  each other, but with respect to CDNs authenticating end users,
  I agree that it would be best if the CDNs agreed upon a single
  authentication method, and that delegation be denied if a dCDN
  cannot support the method specified by the uCDN.  IMO, the way
  to do that is through opaque metadata.

  I do not think I was disagreeing with Scott, I just raised two
  issues to consider:
  1) If the CP configures the uCDN with an authentication method
     and credentials, the CP does not necessarily give that uCDN=20
     permission to pass those credentials along to a dCDN.
  2) The client app cannot be expected to support authentication
     methods that are not known to the CP; the dCDNs cannot just
     select a method that the CP is unaware of.

  Going with an opaque metadata approach we can certainly define
  metadata for advertising authentication, beyond that, however,
  the CDN to client interface seems to be out of scope of CDNI?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:vishwas.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:02 PM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: Scott Wainner; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Kevin,
=A0
I think Scott has a point when he says that we need to define some base aut=
hentication method to be supported between the CDN's.=20
=A0
Ofcourse in particular cases if a particular authentication method is requi=
red it could mean to disallow delegation to a dCDN.
=A0
Thanks,
Vishwas
On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com> wro=
te:
Hi Scott,
=A0
=A0 One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow del=
egation.
=A0 In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the authen=
tication
=A0 method on each CDN?=A0 If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the =
uCDN would
=A0have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?=
=A0 That
=A0brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does not w=
ant to
=A0deal with?=A0 For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most impo=
rtant.
=A0 That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or possibly =
a proxy
=A0where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so th=
at the
=A0client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?
=A0
=A0 wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs exp=
anded, or
=A0 that additional use cases are required?
=A0
thanx.
=A0
--=A0 Kevin J. Ma
=A0
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: cdni@ietf.org=20

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
=A0
Kevin,

=A0=A0=A0 My comments in-line ...

On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:=20
Hi Scott,

=A0 We are currently updating section 2.3.=A0 I think the nomadic use case
=A0 includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
=A0 extension.=A0 A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specif=
ic
=A0 devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
=A0 by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
=A0 devices or subscribers.=A0 We are also looking at removing section 5.1.=
3.
Understood.

=A0 > As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
=A0 > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
=A0 ...
=A0 > Clearly, the choice of
=A0 > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

=A0 Content providers typically implement apps today with an understanding =
that
=A0 the uCDN has a specific authentication method.=A0 If the uCDN delegates
=A0 delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship with, =
the
=A0 app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.=A0 Would the =
uCDN be
=A0 responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?
That is exactly my point.=A0 I don't have an answer.

The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that met=
hod of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the author=
ity to choose its own method of authentication independent of the CSP.

1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one for =
each uCDN it establishes a relationship?

2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for multip=
le authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it establishes a re=
lationship?

3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and all=
 CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN support th=
e standard method?

4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN authenticates =
the client using their method of choice, the uCDN authenticates clients usi=
ng their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a standard proxy method between=
 the dCDN and uCDN?=A0 In this case, the CSP must accept that the methods u=
sed by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not necessarily the same.

In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to authenti=
cate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?

Scott

thanx.

--=A0 Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Scott Wainner
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>=A0=A0=A0 This description falls under the category of Geographic Extensio=
n yet
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> the same CDN coverage area.=A0 The intent of this use case needs to be
> clarified.=A0 Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario wher=
e
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.=A0 The dCDN is allowed to
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> too have such an agreement.
>
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>=A0=A0=A0 Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> to deliver specific content.=A0 I certainly understand the case where a
> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> methods, delivery methods, etc.).=A0 On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>
>=A0=A0=A0 o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>=A0=A0=A0 o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer=
 high
> bit-rate variants of the media
>=A0=A0=A0 o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don'=
t
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> the user access to the content)
>
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> via either d-b or d-c.=A0 As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.=A0 Th=
e
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> the delegation for content delivery is executed.=A0 Clearly, the choice o=
f
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
=A0

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 04:04:33 2011
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To: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN =
is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow =
to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN =
(e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection =
prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>=20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>=20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension =
yet=20
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used =
in=20
> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be=20=

> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario =
where=20
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from =
CSP-A=20
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed =
to=20
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in=20=

> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they=20=

> too have such an agreement.
>=20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a =
CDN=20
> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a=20=

> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if=20=

> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an=20
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption=20=

> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have=20=

> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while=20=

> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>=20
>   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not =
DASH)
>   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer =
high=20
> bit-rate variants of the media
>   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>=20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>=20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I =
think=20
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>=20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract=20
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust=20
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right=20
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing=20=

> the user access to the content)
>=20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The =
user=20
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the=20
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated=20=

> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended=20=

> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  =
The=20
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency=20=

> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when=20=

> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice =
of=20
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>=20
> Scott
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From philip.eardley@bt.com  Mon Oct 10 08:22:05 2011
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From: <philip.eardley@bt.com>
To: <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>, <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:21:59 +0100
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Ben, Zhipeng, all,=20

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc t=
han for the Use cases draft.=20

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signa=
l about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we=
 should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't kno=
w, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios=
 as well?=20

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adapta=
tion (HD/SD) is out of scope.=20
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with the=
 capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata associ=
ated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is tra=
nsitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN tr=
usts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However,=
 i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say =
that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley=A0=A0=A0
Research and Technology Strategy

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential=
. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're no=
t the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or us=
ing this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,=
 please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We m=
onitor our email system, and may record your emails.
British Telecommunications plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England no: 1800000


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben=
 Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description o=
n the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>=20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devi=
ces," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken so=
me email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area t=
o explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments o=
r questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in th=
e use case draft.
>=20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet=20
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in=20
> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be=20
> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where=
=20
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A=
=20
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to=20
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in=20
> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they=20
> too have such an agreement.
>=20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN=
=20
> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a=20
> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if=20
> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an=20
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption=20
> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have=20
> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while=20
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>=20
>   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high=20
> bit-rate variants of the media
>   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>=20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>=20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think=
=20
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>=20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract=
=20
> arrangement for distribution)=09
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust=20
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right=20
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing=20
> the user access to the content)
>=20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user=
=20
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the=20
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated=20
> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended=20
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The=
=20
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency=20
> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when=20
> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of=
=20
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>=20
> Scott
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that=
 the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", e=
tc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the i=
ssues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am no=
t sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it s=
upport different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to=
 a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to=
 G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferr=
ed, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this c=
ase above.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN=
 delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers o=
ne media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple =
media types".=20

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM and li=
ke to promote the DRM all around the world:)
If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the sy=
stems should be granted by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the informat=
ion related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be=
 protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but=
 I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may s=
ave investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile se=
rvice and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may suppor=
t different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to impl=
ement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in f=
uture work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,=20

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc t=
han for the Use cases draft.=20

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signa=
l about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we=
 should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't kno=
w, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios=
 as well?=20

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adapta=
tion (HD/SD) is out of scope.=20
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with the=
 capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata associ=
ated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is tra=
nsitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN tr=
usts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However,=
 i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say =
that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley=A0=A0=A0
Research and Technology Strategy

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential=
. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're no=
t the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or us=
ing this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,=
 please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We m=
onitor our email system, and may record your emails.
British Telecommunications plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England no: 1800000


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben=
 Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description o=
n the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>=20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devi=
ces," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken so=
me email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area t=
o explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments o=
r questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in th=
e use case draft.
>=20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet=20
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in=20
> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be=20
> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where=
=20
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A=
=20
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to=20
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in=20
> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they=20
> too have such an agreement.
>=20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN=
=20
> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a=20
> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if=20
> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an=20
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption=20
> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have=20
> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while=20
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>=20
>   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high=20
> bit-rate variants of the media
>   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>=20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>=20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think=
=20
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>=20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract=
=20
> arrangement for distribution)=09
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust=20
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right=20
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing=20
> the user access to the content)
>=20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user=
=20
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the=20
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated=20
> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended=20
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The=
=20
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency=20
> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when=20
> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of=
=20
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>=20
> Scott
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
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From hexiaoyan@huawei.com  Tue Oct 11 02:28:58 2011
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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 17:27:46 +0800
From: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Kevin,
Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
>The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain and
accessible through any of the Hostnames...  
- Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is accessed by
a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data model
works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within one
Doman?

- The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
Metadata within one Domain?

> The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents to
retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given Domain.  
- Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an Agent
explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents is an
inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit its
identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata. 

- Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within one
Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding Agent
objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN located
in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?

Thanks.
Best Regards
Xiaoyan(Susan) He

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Kevin J Ma
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface

Hi all,

  Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:

    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt

  The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
  to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
  associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

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From ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl  Tue Oct 11 05:12:39 2011
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From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Hi all,

While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like to ma=
ke sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple represent=
ations, which would happen if we would just remove section 5.1.3 completely=
 as suggested by Ben.=20

The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a slightly d=
ifferent wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in section 5.1  of t=
he new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-based constraints, tha=
t was included in betrand-02, should remain in some form. While it is not t=
he CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allow a specific representation =
to be delivered, I think a use case in which some dCDN only offers a subset=
 of the representations available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in a =
dedicated mobile CDN).=20

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben=
 Niven-Jenkins
Sent: maandag 10 oktober 2011 13:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description o=
n the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>=20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devi=
ces," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken so=
me email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area t=
o explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments o=
r questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in th=
e use case draft.
>=20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension=20
> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is=20
> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs=20
> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the=20
> scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to=20
> content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region. =20
> The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A;=20
> however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are allowed to=20
> retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.
>=20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a=20
> CDN to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case=20
> where a CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed=20
> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content distribution=20
> via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to=20
> encryption methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the=20
> dCDN may have its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD=20
> content while allowing the distribution of SD content.
>=20
>   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer=20
> high bit-rate variants of the media
>   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>=20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>=20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I=20
> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>=20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle=20
> contract arrangement for distribution) b. The relationship between the=20
> uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust relationship that extends the=20
> contract defined in (a) above) c. The relationship between the User=20
> and dCDN (the recognition of right to download predicated on (b)=20
> above) d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract=20
> authorizing the user access to the content)
>=20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The=20
> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of=20
> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated=20
> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended=20
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes. =20
> The user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but=20
> transparency is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly=20
> defined when the delegation for content delivery is executed. =20
> Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respect=
ive CDN's.
>=20
> Scott
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
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This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.tn=
o.nl/emaildisclaimer


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On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Hi all,
>=20
> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like =
to make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple =
representations, which would happen if we would just remove section =
5.1.3 completely as suggested by Ben.=20

I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 does =
not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.

> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a =
slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in =
section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of =
resolution-based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should =
remain in some form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision =
whether to allow a specific representation to be delivered, I think a =
use case in which some dCDN only offers a subset of the representations =
available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile =
CDN).=20

I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations =
in the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and =
maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a =
consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an =
active decision they make).

Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider has =
some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce =
in a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). =
They may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's =
not relevant to the point I'm making).

A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a =
web portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through =
their portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the =
available representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is =
made is purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a =
representation and the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that =
representation to the CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for =
that representation within the CDN to the User's client). The User then =
connects to the CDN and requests the representation they have selected =
(from the choice of representations offered to them by the Content =
Provider).

At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to =
specific content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a =
Content Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what =
actual content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible =
representations of the same content.

At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction of =
the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI =
scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some =
capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols =
it can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of =
the content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.

For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver =
representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not =
even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.=20

What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a =
particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and =
is only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by =
the Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's =
portal) based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may =
subsequently be selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and =
that dCDN may only end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the =
possible representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is =
a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of =
serving, not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to =
the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's service.

Ben


=20=

From swainner@cisco.com  Tue Oct 11 07:25:30 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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On 10/8/11 6:45 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> Hi Vishwas,
>
>    Just to clarify, when you say "between the CDNs", we are still
>    taking about CDNs authenticating end users, as opposed to CDNs
>    authenticating each other, correct?
That was my intent.

Each CDN will (most likely) want to use some means of authenticating the 
user for permission to download content.  Since the CDN's are operated 
independently, they will likely independently choose their method of 
authentication and authorization.  The point being the use case could 
describe a scenario where there is no authentication and authorization 
(we're just trying to find a way to deliver content efficiently) AND a 
use case can be described where there is authentication and 
authorization (between the client and the CDN).  In the later case, we 
need to coordinate the method of authentication and authorization.

1. Default / Standard method for all CDN's?
2. Set of methods with order preference?

Does the CP dictate the minimum level of authentication / authorization 
acceptable by ANY CDN used for deliver?  In that case, the uCDN may 
support a method and the dCDN may or may not.  A decision has to be made 
prior to delegating the content request to the dCDN.
>
>    I do think that CDNs will need to be able to authenticate with
>    each other, but with respect to CDNs authenticating end users,
>    I agree that it would be best if the CDNs agreed upon a single
>    authentication method, and that delegation be denied if a dCDN
>    cannot support the method specified by the uCDN.  IMO, the way
>    to do that is through opaque metadata.
>
>    I do not think I was disagreeing with Scott, I just raised two
>    issues to consider:
>    1) If the CP configures the uCDN with an authentication method
>       and credentials, the CP does not necessarily give that uCDN
>       permission to pass those credentials along to a dCDN.
>    2) The client app cannot be expected to support authentication
>       methods that are not known to the CP; the dCDNs cannot just
>       select a method that the CP is unaware of.
>
>    Going with an opaque metadata approach we can certainly define
>    metadata for advertising authentication, beyond that, however,
>    the CDN to client interface seems to be out of scope of CDNI?
If the authentication / authorization between the client and the dCDN is 
a viable use case in CDNi, then I don't see how you can avoid at least 
defining a requirement for specifying a compatible means of 
authentication/authorization in order for CDNi to work.
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:vishwas.ietf@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:02 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Scott Wainner; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Hi Kevin,
>   
> I think Scott has a point when he says that we need to define some base authentication method to be supported between the CDN's.
>   
> Ofcourse in particular cases if a particular authentication method is required it could mean to disallow delegation to a dCDN.
>   
> Thanks,
> Vishwas
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Kevin J Ma<kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>  wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>   
>    One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow delegation.
>    In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the authentication
>    method on each CDN?  If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the uCDN would
>   have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs, etc.)?  That
>   brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does not want to
>   deal with?  For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most important.
>    That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or possibly a proxy
>   where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so that the
>   client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?
>   
>    wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs expanded, or
>    that additional use cases are required?
>   
> thanx.
>   
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>   
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>   
> Kevin,
>
>      My comments in-line ...
>
> On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> Hi Scott,
>
>    We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
>    includes not only geographic extension, but more generically footprint
>    extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for specific
>    devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device footprint
>    by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports other
>    devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section 5.1.3.
> Understood.
>
>    >  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
>    >  tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
>    ...
>    >  Clearly, the choice of
>    >  authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
>    Content providers typically implement apps today with an understanding that
>    the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegates
>    delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship with, the
>    app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the uCDN be
>    responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the user?
> That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.
>
> The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the authority to choose its own method of authentication independent of the CSP.
>
> 1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?
>
> 2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it establishes a relationship?
>
> 3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN support the standard method?
>
> 4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN authenticates the client using their method of choice, the uCDN authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the CSP must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not necessarily the same.
>
> In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?
>
> Scott
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>> Scott Wainner
>> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>      This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
>> too have such an agreement.
>>
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>      Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>
>>      o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>>      o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>      o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>>
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>>
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
>> arrangement for distribution)
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
>> the user access to the content)
>>
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>   
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
>


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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content 
> Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and 
> transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" 
> function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is 
> requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>
I tend to agree.  Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's not 
clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of content 
adaptation that may be possible (encryption, watermark, transrate, 
transcode, etc.)
>
>
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the 
> CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing 
> the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) 
> of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or 
> applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content 
> should be delivered.
>
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and 
> allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of 
> the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content 
> selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the 
> selected content).
>
Agreed.  This means the portal makes a decision about the specific 
content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).  There 
is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the content.  That 
assumption has a high probability of success with regards to the 
relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is an explicit 
business relationship.  That assumption may not be valid when dealing 
with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the uCDN.

So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal) for 
the asset.  If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then somewhere 
outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to re-write the URL 
such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.  That can be a simple re-write 
(modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more complex re-write (modified FQDN 
and PATH).

Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH 
structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery 
point?  In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how to 
handle the exact same PATH structure.

If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where 
would this be done?  If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know 
information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the correct 
URL structure.  Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write into the 
appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.  Is this in scope or not?

Scott
>
>
> Ben
>
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
> > Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's 
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content 
> with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
> >
> > Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific 
> devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and 
> taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and 
> area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic 
> requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the 
> CDN interconnection.
> > Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your 
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be 
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >
> > If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> > too have such an agreement.
> >
> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >
> >   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not 
> DASH)
> >   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >
> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >
> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >
> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> > arrangement for distribution)
> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> > the user access to the content)
> >
> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>


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    On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk"
      type="cite">
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      <p><font size="2">Colleagues,<br>
          <br>
          IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
          Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one
          format and transforming it to another format or
          representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which
          typically delivers the content that is requested without
          explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    I tend to agree.&nbsp; Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's
    not clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of
    content adaptation that may be possible (encryption, watermark,
    transrate, transcode, etc.)<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          Let's not forget that in building an end to end content
          service the CDN is only one component and is the component
          tasked with executing the delivery of a specific
          representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
          content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
          policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should
          be delivered.<br>
          <br>
          The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer
          and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is
          implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the
          user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN
          becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    Agreed.&nbsp; This means the portal makes a decision about the specific
    content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).&nbsp;
    There is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the
    content.&nbsp; That assumption has a high probability of success with
    regards to the relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is
    an explicit business relationship.&nbsp; That assumption may not be valid
    when dealing with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the
    uCDN.<br>
    <br>
    So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal)
    for the asset.&nbsp; If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then
    somewhere outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to
    re-write the URL such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.&nbsp; That can
    be a simple re-write (modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more
    complex re-write (modified FQDN and PATH).<br>
    <br>
    Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH
    structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery
    point?&nbsp; In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how
    to handle the exact same PATH structure.<br>
    <br>
    If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where
    would this be done?&nbsp; If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know
    information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the
    correct URL structure.&nbsp; Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write
    into the appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.&nbsp; Is this in scope
    or not?<br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          Ben<br>
          <br>
          On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          <br>
          &gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel
          Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not
          exactly correct.<br>
          &gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have
          two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic
          unit is a content copy.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable
          to specific devices," has listed the case of content
          adaptation.<br>
          &gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this
          document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip
          (BT).<br>
          &gt; I have shown BT with some information that I know in this
          case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently
          a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is
          needed in the CDN interconnection.<br>
          &gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising
          your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use
          case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls share in
          this thread.<br>
          &gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; From: Scott Wainner [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
          &gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of Geographic
          Extension yet<br>
          &gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different
          device is used in<br>
          &gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use case
          needs to be<br>
          &gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
          scenario where<br>
          &gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
          content from CSP-A<br>
          &gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp; The dCDN
          is allowed to<br>
          &gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not
          other users in<br>
          &gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the
          content unless they<br>
          &gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions
          on the<br>
          &gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the
          ability of a CDN<br>
          &gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly understand the
          case where a<br>
          &gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a
          "managed path" if<br>
          &gt; such content is HD while allowing the content
          distribution via an<br>
          &gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply
          to encryption<br>
          &gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the contrary, the
          dCDN may have<br>
          &gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD
          content while<br>
          &gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a
          subset of<br>
          &gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS,
          HSS, but not DASH)<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want
          to offer high<br>
          &gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE
          but I don't<br>
          &gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN
          and dCDN, I think<br>
          &gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the
          principle contract<br>
          &gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
          &gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the
          transitive trust<br>
          &gt; relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
          above)<br>
          &gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
          recognition of right<br>
          &gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
          &gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the
          contract authorizing<br>
          &gt; the user access to the content)<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c
          relationship. The user<br>
          &gt; is only interested in the transparency and
          interoperability of the<br>
          &gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point
          that the<br>
          &gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery
          is initiated<br>
          &gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might use
          URL appended<br>
          &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
          appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
          &gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
          transparency<br>
          &gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
          defined when<br>
          &gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.&nbsp;
          Clearly, the choice of<br>
          &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective
          CDN's.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Scott<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          <br>
        </font>
      </p>
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On 10/10/11 11:21 AM, philip.eardley@bt.com wrote:
>
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements 
> doc than for the Use cases draft.
>
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to 
> cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN 
> & to signal about this.
>
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, 
> ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I 
> don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted 
> to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering 
> "future" scenarios as well?
>
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content 
> adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>
Exactly my point.  Lot's of policy constraints here some of which are 
defined by the CP and some of which are defined by the dCDN.
Example: CP only allows content to be delivered over network 
infrastructure that uCDN owns (no delegation allowed)
Example: dCDN doesn't want to allow HD streams over their low-bandwidth 
network infrastructure.
Example: uCDN decides its more economical to deliver from their own 
network as opposed to a dCDN
>
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do 
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than 
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the 
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is 
> rather out of scope(?)
>
Policy - communicated by people or by protocol.  Certainly, the simple 
case is the communication by people with static configuration in which 
case we need no protocol.  The question is what policy attributes are in 
scope and which ones are out of scope.
>
>
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust 
> is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, 
> and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts 
> the dCDN.
>
I would think that this is the norm (the CSP does NOT implicitly trust a 
dCDN).  With a well defined framework, the CSP may be persuaded to trust 
a dCDN under certain conditions.
>
> However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one 
> possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust 
> is transitive.
>
That is the fundamental question ... are we only dealing with cases 
where trust is transitive and there is presumably a common method of 
enforcing that transitive trust.

Scott
>
>
> Best wishes
> phil
>
>
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf 
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Colleagues,
>
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content 
> Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and 
> transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" 
> function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is 
> requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the 
> CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing 
> the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) 
> of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or 
> applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content 
> should be delivered.
>
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and 
> allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of 
> the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content 
> selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the 
> selected content).
>
> Ben
>
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
> > Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's 
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content 
> with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
> >
> > Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific 
> devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and 
> taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and 
> area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic 
> requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the 
> CDN interconnection.
> > Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your 
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be 
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >
> > If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> > too have such an agreement.
> >
> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >
> >   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not 
> DASH)
> >   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >
> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >
> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >
> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> > arrangement for distribution)
> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> > the user access to the content)
> >
> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>


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    On 10/10/11 11:21 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-8859-1">
      <meta name="Generator" content="MS Exchange Server version
        6.5.7655.10">
      <title>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</title>
      <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
      <p><font size="2">Ben, Zhipeng, all,<br>
          <br>
          I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
          Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.<br>
          <br>
          The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
          able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is
          done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about this.<br>
          <br>
          I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
          requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial
          standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether
          the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or
          whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios
          as well?<br>
          <br>
          Scott,<br>
          Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
          content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<br>
          - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    Exactly my point.&nbsp; Lot's of policy constraints here some of which
    are defined by the CP and some of which are defined by the dCDN.<br>
    Example: CP only allows content to be delivered over network
    infrastructure that uCDN owns (no delegation allowed)<br>
    Example: dCDN doesn't want to allow HD streams over their
    low-bandwidth network infrastructure.<br>
    Example: uCDN decides its more economical to deliver from their own
    network as opposed to a dCDN<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS
          encapsulation?<br>
          But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things
          (to do with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs
          &amp; CSP), rather than metadata associated with a particular
          piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think
          negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
          scope(?)<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    Policy - communicated by people or by protocol.&nbsp; Certainly, the
    simple case is the communication by people with static configuration
    in which case we need no protocol.&nbsp; The question is what policy
    attributes are in scope and which ones are out of scope.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
          trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP
          trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP
          automatically trusts the dCDN.</font></p>
    </blockquote>
    I would think that this is the norm (the CSP does NOT implicitly
    trust a dCDN).&nbsp; With a well defined framework, the CSP may be
    persuaded to trust a dCDN under certain conditions.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2"> However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily
          complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only
          handle cases where the trust is transitive.<br>
        </font></p>
    </blockquote>
    That is the fundamental question ... are we only dealing with cases
    where trust is transitive and there is presumably a common method of
    enforcing that transitive trust.<br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net"
      type="cite">
      <p><font size="2">
          <br>
          Best wishes<br>
          phil<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          Philip Eardley&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>
          Research and Technology Strategy<br>
          <br>
          This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
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          British Telecommunications plc<br>
          Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ<br>
          Registered in England no: 1800000<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          -----Original Message-----<br>
          From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
          On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
          Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<br>
          To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
          Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          <br>
          Colleagues,<br>
          <br>
          IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
          Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one
          format and transforming it to another format or
          representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which
          typically delivers the content that is requested without
          explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
          <br>
          Let's not forget that in building an end to end content
          service the CDN is only one component and is the component
          tasked with executing the delivery of a specific
          representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
          content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
          policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should
          be delivered.<br>
          <br>
          The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer
          and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is
          implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the
          user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN
          becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).<br>
          <br>
          Ben<br>
          <br>
          On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          <br>
          &gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel
          Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not
          exactly correct.<br>
          &gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have
          two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic
          unit is a content copy.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable
          to specific devices," has listed the case of content
          adaptation.<br>
          &gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this
          document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip
          (BT).<br>
          &gt; I have shown BT with some information that I know in this
          case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently
          a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is
          needed in the CDN interconnection.<br>
          &gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising
          your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use
          case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls share in
          this thread.<br>
          &gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; From: Scott Wainner [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
          &gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of Geographic
          Extension yet<br>
          &gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different
          device is used in<br>
          &gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use case
          needs to be<br>
          &gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
          scenario where<br>
          &gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
          content from CSP-A<br>
          &gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp; The dCDN
          is allowed to<br>
          &gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not
          other users in<br>
          &gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the
          content unless they<br>
          &gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions
          on the<br>
          &gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the
          ability of a CDN<br>
          &gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly understand the
          case where a<br>
          &gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a
          "managed path" if<br>
          &gt; such content is HD while allowing the content
          distribution via an<br>
          &gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply
          to encryption<br>
          &gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the contrary, the
          dCDN may have<br>
          &gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD
          content while<br>
          &gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a
          subset of<br>
          &gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS,
          HSS, but not DASH)<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want
          to offer high<br>
          &gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE
          but I don't<br>
          &gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN
          and dCDN, I think<br>
          &gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the
          principle contract<br>
          &gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
          &gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the
          transitive trust<br>
          &gt; relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
          above)<br>
          &gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
          recognition of right<br>
          &gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
          &gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the
          contract authorizing<br>
          &gt; the user access to the content)<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c
          relationship. The user<br>
          &gt; is only interested in the transparency and
          interoperability of the<br>
          &gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point
          that the<br>
          &gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery
          is initiated<br>
          &gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might use
          URL appended<br>
          &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
          appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
          &gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
          transparency<br>
          &gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
          defined when<br>
          &gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.&nbsp;
          Clearly, the choice of<br>
          &gt; authentication method is determined by the respective
          CDN's.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Scott<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          CDNi mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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          _______________________________________________<br>
          CDNi mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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        </font>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 11 07:49:40 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>, "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:48:56 -0400
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Ben,

  I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think
  that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected
  world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different
  CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via CDN-B.
  It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did, however,
  the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will not share
  with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI, if the uCDN
  has access to all representations but the CP needs to enforce that
  specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of representations (due to
  content licensing restrictions), enforcing that probably requires
  metadata to describe those delivery restrictions?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>=20
> > Hi all,
> >
> > While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like t=
o
> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple
> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section 5.1.3
> completely as suggested by Ben.
>=20
> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 does
> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>=20
> > The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in
> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-
> based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should remain in some
> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allow a
> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in which some
> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the uCDN is
> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
>=20
> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations in
> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and
> maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a
> consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an activ=
e
> decision they make).
>=20
> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider has
> some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce in
> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). They
> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not
> relevant to the point I'm making).
>=20
> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a we=
b
> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through their
> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the available
> representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is
> purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation and
> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to the
> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation within
> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and
> requests the representation they have selected (from the choice of
> representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
>=20
> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to specific
> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content
> Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual
> content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible
> representations of the same content.
>=20
> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction of
> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI
> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some
> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols it
> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of the
> content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>=20
> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver
> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not
> even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
>=20
> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a
> particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and i=
s
> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by the
> Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's portal)
> based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently be
> selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may onl=
y
> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible
> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a
> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of serving=
,
> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the uCDN fo=
r
> that specific Content Provider's service.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Scott Wainner <swainner@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:49:44 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Scott,

  > 1. Default / Standard method for all CDN's?
  > 2. Set of methods with order preference?

  I think either is fine.  I would just be concerned if we had requirements
  in CDNI that CDNs support specific protocols.  Doing it through metadata
  does not require the CDNI interfaces to change every time a new protocol
  comes along, and does not dictate what protocols CDNs must support if the=
y
  want to engage in just basic interconnection?

  > Does the CP dictate the minimum level of authentication / authorization
  > acceptable by ANY CDN used for deliver?  In that case, the uCDN may
  > support a method and the dCDN may or may not.  A decision has to be mad=
e
  > prior to delegating the content request to the dCDN.

  I would think yes, the CP dictates, and delegation should be restricted.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:28 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Vishwas Manral; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> On 10/8/11 6:45 PM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> > Hi Vishwas,
> >
> >    Just to clarify, when you say "between the CDNs", we are still
> >    taking about CDNs authenticating end users, as opposed to CDNs
> >    authenticating each other, correct?
> That was my intent.
>=20
> Each CDN will (most likely) want to use some means of authenticating the
> user for permission to download content.  Since the CDN's are operated
> independently, they will likely independently choose their method of
> authentication and authorization.  The point being the use case could
> describe a scenario where there is no authentication and authorization
> (we're just trying to find a way to deliver content efficiently) AND a
> use case can be described where there is authentication and
> authorization (between the client and the CDN).  In the later case, we
> need to coordinate the method of authentication and authorization.
>=20
> 1. Default / Standard method for all CDN's?
> 2. Set of methods with order preference?
>=20
> Does the CP dictate the minimum level of authentication / authorization
> acceptable by ANY CDN used for deliver?  In that case, the uCDN may
> support a method and the dCDN may or may not.  A decision has to be made
> prior to delegating the content request to the dCDN.
> >
> >    I do think that CDNs will need to be able to authenticate with
> >    each other, but with respect to CDNs authenticating end users,
> >    I agree that it would be best if the CDNs agreed upon a single
> >    authentication method, and that delegation be denied if a dCDN
> >    cannot support the method specified by the uCDN.  IMO, the way
> >    to do that is through opaque metadata.
> >
> >    I do not think I was disagreeing with Scott, I just raised two
> >    issues to consider:
> >    1) If the CP configures the uCDN with an authentication method
> >       and credentials, the CP does not necessarily give that uCDN
> >       permission to pass those credentials along to a dCDN.
> >    2) The client app cannot be expected to support authentication
> >       methods that are not known to the CP; the dCDNs cannot just
> >       select a method that the CP is unaware of.
> >
> >    Going with an opaque metadata approach we can certainly define
> >    metadata for advertising authentication, beyond that, however,
> >    the CDN to client interface seems to be out of scope of CDNI?
> If the authentication / authorization between the client and the dCDN is
> a viable use case in CDNi, then I don't see how you can avoid at least
> defining a requirement for specifying a compatible means of
> authentication/authorization in order for CDNi to work.
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > From: Vishwas Manral [mailto:vishwas.ietf@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2011 5:02 PM
> > To: Kevin J Ma
> > Cc: Scott Wainner; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > I think Scott has a point when he says that we need to define some base
> authentication method to be supported between the CDN's.
> >
> > Ofcourse in particular cases if a particular authentication method is
> required it could mean to disallow delegation to a dCDN.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vishwas
> > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Kevin J Ma<kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> >    One option is that CPs that want strict authentication do not allow
> delegation.
> >    In a non-interconnected environment, the CP has to configure the
> authentication
> >    method on each CDN?  If the uCDN is going to delegate to a dCDN, the
> uCDN would
> >   have to configure the dCDN on behalf of the CP (passwords, certs,
> etc.)?  That
> >   brings up other transative trust issues that this CP probably does no=
t
> want to
> >   deal with?  For other CPs, imo, end user transparency is the most
> important.
> >    That could mean options 1 or 3 as you describe them below, or
> possibly a proxy
> >   where the dCDN sends the credentials to the uCDN for verification, so
> that the
> >   client does not need to know anything about the dCDN?
> >
> >    wrt the use case draft, do you feel that the security section needs
> expanded, or
> >    that additional use cases are required?
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:37 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> >      My comments in-line ...
> >
> > On 9/30/11 10:45 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> >    We are currently updating section 2.3.  I think the nomadic use case
> >    includes not only geographic extension, but more generically
> footprint
> >    extension.  A carrier CDN with only an in-network presense for
> specific
> >    devices (e.g., mobile vs TV) may want to increase its device
> footprint
> >    by interconnecting with another local carrier CDN that supports othe=
r
> >    devices or subscribers.  We are also looking at removing section
> 5.1.3.
> > Understood.
> >
> >    >  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> >    >  tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended
> hashes.
> >    ...
> >    >  Clearly, the choice of
> >    >  authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >
> >    Content providers typically implement apps today with an
> understanding that
> >    the uCDN has a specific authentication method.  If the uCDN delegate=
s
> >    delivery to a dCDN that the content provider has no relationship
> with, the
> >    app may have no ability to switch authentication methods.  Would the
> uCDN be
> >    responsible for generating of the proper dCDN credentials for the
> user?
> > That is exactly my point.  I don't have an answer.
> >
> > The CSP may accept the uCDN's approach to authentication; however, that
> method of authentication may not be supported on the dCDN which has the
> authority to choose its own method of authentication independent of the
> CSP.
> >
> > 1. Does the dCDN have to support multiple authentication methods - one
> for each uCDN it establishes a relationship?
> >
> > 2. Does the uCDN have to support (and get approval from the CSP) for
> multiple authentication methods - one for each dCDN for which it
> establishes a relationship?
> >
> > 3. Do we define a standard authentication method between the client and
> all CDN such that the CSP approves one method and all uCDN and dCDN
> support the standard method?
> >
> > 4. Do we define a proxy authentication method where the dCDN
> authenticates the client using their method of choice, the uCDN
> authenticates clients using their method of choice, AND CDNi defines a
> standard proxy method between the dCDN and uCDN?  In this case, the CSP
> must accept that the methods used by dCDN and uCDN are equivalent but not
> necessarily the same.
> >
> > In what manner is the client informed of the appropriate method to
> authenticate their transaction with either the dCDN or uCDN?
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> >> Scott Wainner
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:02 PM
> >> To: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >>      This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet
> >> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used i=
n
> >> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> >> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> where
> >> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP=
-
> A
> >> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed t=
o
> >> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> >> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> >> too have such an agreement.
> >>
> >> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >>      Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> >> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> CDN
> >> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> >> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> >> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> >> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> >> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> >> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> >> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >>
> >>      o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> >> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH)
> >>      o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> >> bit-rate variants of the media
> >>      o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> >> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >>
> >> Section 10 Security Considerations
> >>
> >> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think
> >> we can describe this in four contexts:
> >>
> >> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> contract
> >> arrangement for distribution)
> >> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> >> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> >> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of righ=
t
> >> to download predicated on (b) above)
> >> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> >> the user access to the content)
> >>
> >> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user
> >> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> >> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> >> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> >> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> >> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> The
> >> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> >> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> >> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice
> of
> >> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >
> >


From ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl  Tue Oct 11 08:09:50 2011
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From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Ben,

You make the assumption that selecting a specific representation is a consc=
ious decision, made either by a user or the CP, before the actual content d=
elivery commences. In this case, I agree with you completely.=20

However, there are situations imaginable in which there is a switch between=
 representations during content delivery. Let's take the HTTP Adaptive Stre=
aming situation for example. A given video might be encoded in 10 different=
 qualities (representations), ranging from a 1080p stream all the way to 12=
8kbps stream meant for small-screen mobile devices. Depending on network co=
nditions or user preferences, a device might switch between these represent=
ation multiple times during video delivery. In your case it will only be po=
ssible for a dCDN to host/deliver either all 10 of the representations, or =
none at all. What I meant was that in some situations, a dedicated mobile d=
CDN might want to host/deliver the content, but  not in all 10 representati=
ons since the highest quality representations (e.g. 1080p) are of no use to=
 mobile clients.=20

I understand that this would mean that a CDN is no longer agnostic to the c=
ontent it delivers, but this is true for a lot of use cases that are includ=
ed in the current draft.=20

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:26
To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt


On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Hi all,
>=20
> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like to =
make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple represe=
ntations, which would happen if we would just remove section 5.1.3 complete=
ly as suggested by Ben.=20

I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 does no=
t throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.

> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a slightly=
 different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in section 5.1  of=
 the new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-based constraints, t=
hat was included in betrand-02, should remain in some form. While it is not=
 the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allow a specific representatio=
n to be delivered, I think a use case in which some dCDN only offers a subs=
et of the representations available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in =
a dedicated mobile CDN).=20

I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations in t=
he way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and maybe =
by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a consequence o=
f  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an active decision they=
 make).

Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider has som=
e content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce in a va=
riety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). They may d=
o that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not relevant to=
 the point I'm making).

A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a web =
portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through their p=
ortal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the available repr=
esentations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is purely up=
 to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation and the Conten=
t Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to the CDN (e.g. by=
 returning the appropriate URI for that representation within the CDN to th=
e User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and requests the repres=
entation they have selected (from the choice of representations offered to =
them by the Content Provider).

At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to specific c=
ontent files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content Provid=
er's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual content tha=
t specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible representations of t=
he same content.

At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction of th=
e representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI scenario t=
hings are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some capability (=
e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols it can support) =
but I do not think that the specific representation of the content will ent=
er into the equation beyond those constraints.

For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver representatio=
ns with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not even know what t=
he resolution or a particular representation is.=20

What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a partic=
ular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and is only o=
ffered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by the Content Pr=
ovider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's portal) based on that=
 User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently be selected that can=
 serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may only end up delivering=
 to its Users a subset of all the possible representations the Content Prov=
ider has produced. But that is a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices=
 the dCDN is capable of serving, not an explicit decision made by the dCDN =
and communicated to the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's service.

Ben


=20
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Scott,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Scott Wainner wrote:

> On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>>=20
>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>>=20
>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>>=20
> Agreed.  This means the portal makes a decision about the specific =
content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).  There =
is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the content.  That =
assumption has a high probability of success with regards to the =
relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is an explicit =
business relationship.  That assumption may not be valid when dealing =
with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the uCDN.

The CP will enter a business agreement with a uCDN for the delivery of =
its content and will ensure that the uCDN is able to deliver both the =
types of content the CP requires delivery of and to the geographic =
regions that the CP requires delivery to. That is typically known in =
advance as part of the RFP/contract negotiation between the CP & the =
uCDN.

The uCDN may decide to make use of dCDNs to assist in the delivery of =
some or all of that content. The technical interconnect of the uCDN and =
dCDN is not occurring in a vacuum. The uCDN better make sure that it can =
cover its obligations to the CP either by itself or by ensuring that it =
has one or more dCDNs that can meet those obligations for it.

If the uCDN overcommits itself compared to its (or its dCDN's) =
capabilities bad things will happen (from the point of view of the CSP =
and the CSP's Users). The solution to that problem is not a technical =
solution IMO.

At the end of the day CPs will talk to their CPs about what they require =
and configure policies in their platform appropriately. Likewise uCDNs =
will talk with their dCDNs about what they require and configure =
policies in their platform appropriately. There isn't any magical =
protocol dust that means those conversations do not need to happen and =
IMO if those conversations are happening there's no need for protocol =
semantics to duplicate what is happening outside of the CDNI protocols =
themselves as part of those conversations and the per-CP/per-CDN =
configuration happening as a result.
=20
> So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal) =
for the asset.  If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then somewhere =
outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to re-write the URL =
such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.  That can be a simple re-write =
(modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more complex re-write (modified FQDN =
and PATH).

I don't see how URI rewriting applies to content adaptation. The URI a =
client uses to access the same content representation may differ by CDN =
and the URI may be transformed as part of CDNI request routing for =
example but the content itself is not transformed - the different URIs =
in each CDN still refer to the same specific content file.

Ben

>=20
> Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH =
structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery point? =
 In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how to handle =
the exact same PATH structure.
>=20
> If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where =
would this be done?  If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know =
information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the correct =
URL structure.  Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write into the =
appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.  Is this in scope or not?
>=20
> Scott
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>=20
>> > Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> > If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>> >
>> > Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to =
specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> > In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> > I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>> > Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>> >
>> > If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.
>> > Thanks.
>> > Zhipeng
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> > To: cdni@ietf.org
>> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>> >
>> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>> >   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension =
yet
>> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is =
used in
>> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to =
be
>> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario =
where
>> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from =
CSP-A
>> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is =
allowed to
>> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users =
in
>> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless =
they
>> > too have such an agreement.
>> >
>> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>> >   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
>> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of =
a CDN
>> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where =
a
>> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" =
if
>> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
>> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to =
encryption
>> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may =
have
>> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while
>> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
>> >
>> >   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not =
DASH)
>> >   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer =
high
>> > bit-rate variants of the media
>> >   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
>> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>> >
>> > Section 10 Security Considerations
>> >
>> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I =
think
>> > we can describe this in four contexts:
>> >
>> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
>> > arrangement for distribution)
>> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right
>> > to download predicated on (b) above)
>> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing
>> > the user access to the content)
>> >
>> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The =
user
>> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
>> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is =
initiated
>> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL =
appended
>> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes. =
 The
>> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but =
transparency
>> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined =
when
>> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the =
choice of
>> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>> >
>> > Scott
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > CDNi mailing list
>> > CDNi@ietf.org
>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 11 08:29:39 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:29:31 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Susan,

  thanx for the comments, responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Kevin,
> Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain an=
d
> accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is accessed
> by
> a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data mode=
l
> works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within on=
e
> Doman?

I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a hostna=
me
needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was thinking o=
f
hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does something al=
ong
the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata looku=
p):

  domain =3D get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domain")
  if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
    return error
  metadata =3D db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
                                                 domain, getenv("REMOTE_USE=
R"))
  xml =3D generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
  return xml

> - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> Metadata within one Domain?

That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many.
Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can be
associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B, and
C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and als=
o
have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)

> > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents to
> retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given Domain.
> - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an Agen=
t
> explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents is
> an
> inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit it=
s
> identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.

I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different values t=
o
different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store that
information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies the
implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue prope=
r
consideration.

> - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within one
> Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding Agen=
t
> objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> located
> in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?

This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by diffe=
rent
entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to repr=
esent
those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.

thanx!

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Thanks.
> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Kevin J Ma
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
>   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
>=20
>     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
>=20
>   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:41:42 2011
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To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
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Ray,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:09, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> You make the assumption that selecting a specific representation is a =
conscious decision, made either by a user or the CP, before the actual =
content delivery commences. In this case, I agree with you completely.=20=

>=20
> However, there are situations imaginable in which there is a switch =
between representations during content delivery. Let's take the HTTP =
Adaptive Streaming situation for example. A given video might be encoded =
in 10 different qualities (representations), ranging from a 1080p stream =
all the way to 128kbps stream meant for small-screen mobile devices. =
Depending on network conditions or user preferences, a device might =
switch between these representation multiple times during video =
delivery. In your case it will only be possible for a dCDN to =
host/deliver either all 10 of the representations, or none at all. What =
I meant was that in some situations, a dedicated mobile dCDN might want =
to host/deliver the content, but  not in all 10 representations since =
the highest quality representations (e.g. 1080p) are of no use to mobile =
clients.=20

Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses =
what representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no =
different to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a =
specific representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" =
containing URIs for one or more representations. At no point does the =
CDN get to decide which representations the Content Provider includes in =
their manifest.

Typically, the CDN only caches those representations that are actually =
requested from it. Therefore it is not a black & white "all 10" or =
"none" as you suggest.

The Content Provider has ownership of what service they offer and the =
experience they want the User to experience, not the CDN. It is not =
acceptable for a CDN to decide (outside of a business agreement) that it =
doesn't want to support some subset of the representations the Content =
Provider is offering and use "content adaptation" to modify the content =
to what the CDN would prefer to deliver.

Ben

>=20
> I understand that this would mean that a CDN is no longer agnostic to =
the content it delivers, but this is true for a lot of use cases that =
are included in the current draft.=20
>=20
> Ray
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:26
> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like =
to make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple =
representations, which would happen if we would just remove section =
5.1.3 completely as suggested by Ben.=20
>=20
> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 =
does not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>=20
>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a =
slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in =
section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of =
resolution-based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should =
remain in some form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision =
whether to allow a specific representation to be delivered, I think a =
use case in which some dCDN only offers a subset of the representations =
available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile =
CDN).=20
>=20
> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations =
in the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and =
maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a =
consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an =
active decision they make).
>=20
> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider =
has some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may =
produce in a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, =
etc.). They may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although =
that's not relevant to the point I'm making).
>=20
> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a =
web portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through =
their portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the =
available representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is =
made is purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a =
representation and the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that =
representation to the CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for =
that representation within the CDN to the User's client). The User then =
connects to the CDN and requests the representation they have selected =
(from the choice of representations offered to them by the Content =
Provider).
>=20
> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to =
specific content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a =
Content Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what =
actual content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible =
representations of the same content.
>=20
> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction =
of the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI =
scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some =
capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols =
it can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of =
the content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>=20
> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver =
representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not =
even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.=20
>=20
> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a =
particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and =
is only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by =
the Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's =
portal) based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may =
subsequently be selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and =
that dCDN may only end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the =
possible representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is =
a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of =
serving, not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to =
the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's service.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at =
http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer
>=20


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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:52:58 -0400
From: Scott Wainner <swainner@cisco.com>
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To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Ben,

     I agree.  Multiple client representations (i.e. unique URI) for the 
same content representation.  I'm not suggesting content adaptation as a 
use case.  My only point (which was made by others) is that a given 
representation MAY or MAY NOT be viable or advisable on a dCDN.  That 
decision is presumably not made by the CSP.  That decision is made by 
the uCDN.  The input for that decision can be made statically 
(configured policy) or learned dynamically (conveyed via CDNi).

     I agree that we can use statically configured policy to make that 
decision.

Scott

On 10/11/11 11:26 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Scott Wainner wrote:
>
> > On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
> >>
> >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the 
> CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing 
> the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) 
> of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or 
> applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content 
> should be delivered.
> >>
> >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and 
> allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of 
> the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content 
> selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the 
> selected content).
> >>
> > Agreed.  This means the portal makes a decision about the specific 
> content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).  
> There is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the content.  
> That assumption has a high probability of success with regards to the 
> relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is an explicit 
> business relationship.  That assumption may not be valid when dealing 
> with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the uCDN.
>
> The CP will enter a business agreement with a uCDN for the delivery of 
> its content and will ensure that the uCDN is able to deliver both the 
> types of content the CP requires delivery of and to the geographic 
> regions that the CP requires delivery to. That is typically known in 
> advance as part of the RFP/contract negotiation between the CP & the uCDN.
>
> The uCDN may decide to make use of dCDNs to assist in the delivery of 
> some or all of that content. The technical interconnect of the uCDN 
> and dCDN is not occurring in a vacuum. The uCDN better make sure that 
> it can cover its obligations to the CP either by itself or by ensuring 
> that it has one or more dCDNs that can meet those obligations for it.
>
> If the uCDN overcommits itself compared to its (or its dCDN's) 
> capabilities bad things will happen (from the point of view of the CSP 
> and the CSP's Users). The solution to that problem is not a technical 
> solution IMO.
>
> At the end of the day CPs will talk to their CPs about what they 
> require and configure policies in their platform appropriately. 
> Likewise uCDNs will talk with their dCDNs about what they require and 
> configure policies in their platform appropriately. There isn't any 
> magical protocol dust that means those conversations do not need to 
> happen and IMO if those conversations are happening there's no need 
> for protocol semantics to duplicate what is happening outside of the 
> CDNI protocols themselves as part of those conversations and the 
> per-CP/per-CDN configuration happening as a result.
>
> > So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal) 
> for the asset.  If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then 
> somewhere outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to 
> re-write the URL such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.  That can 
> be a simple re-write (modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more complex 
> re-write (modified FQDN and PATH).
>
> I don't see how URI rewriting applies to content adaptation. The URI a 
> client uses to access the same content representation may differ by 
> CDN and the URI may be transformed as part of CDNI request routing for 
> example but the content itself is not transformed - the different URIs 
> in each CDN still refer to the same specific content file.
>
> Ben
>
> >
> > Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH 
> structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery 
> point?  In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how to 
> handle the exact same PATH structure.
> >
> > If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where 
> would this be done?  If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know 
> information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the correct 
> URL structure.  Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write into the 
> appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.  Is this in scope or not?
> >
> > Scott
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >>
> >> > Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's 
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> >> > If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two 
> content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a 
> content copy.
> >> >
> >> > Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to 
> specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> >> > In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and 
> taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> >> > I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case 
> and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic 
> requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the 
> CDN interconnection.
> >> > Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your 
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be 
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >> >
> >> > If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> >> > Thanks.
> >> > Zhipeng
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> >> > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> >> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >> >
> >> > Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >> >   This description falls under the category of Geographic 
> Extension yet
> >> > the third paragraph states the case where a different device is 
> used in
> >> > the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> >> > clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the 
> scenario where
> >> > a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content 
> from CSP-A
> >> > via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is 
> allowed to
> >> > distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other 
> users in
> >> > the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless 
> they
> >> > too have such an agreement.
> >> >
> >> > Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >> >   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> >> > delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability 
> of a CDN
> >> > to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> >> > CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> >> > such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> >> > un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> >> > methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> >> > its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> >> > allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >> >
> >> >   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> >> > encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but 
> not DASH)
> >> >   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to 
> offer high
> >> > bit-rate variants of the media
> >> >   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> >> > think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >> >
> >> > Section 10 Security Considerations
> >> >
> >> > Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, 
> I think
> >> > we can describe this in four contexts:
> >> >
> >> > a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle 
> contract
> >> > arrangement for distribution)
> >> > b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> >> > relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> >> > c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of 
> right
> >> > to download predicated on (b) above)
> >> > d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract 
> authorizing
> >> > the user access to the content)
> >> >
> >> > The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. 
> The user
> >> > is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> >> > security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> >> > authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> >> > via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL 
> appended
> >> > tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended 
> hashes.  The
> >> > user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but 
> transparency
> >> > is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined 
> when
> >> > the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the 
> choice of
> >> > authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >> >
> >> > Scott
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > CDNi mailing list
> >> > CDNi@ietf.org
> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >>
> >>
> >
>


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    Ben,<br>
    <br>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree.&nbsp; Multiple client representations (i.e. unique URI) for
    the same content representation.&nbsp; I'm not suggesting content
    adaptation as a use case.&nbsp; My only point (which was made by others)
    is that a given representation MAY or MAY NOT be viable or advisable
    on a dCDN.&nbsp; That decision is presumably not made by the CSP.&nbsp; That
    decision is made by the uCDN.&nbsp; The input for that decision can be
    made statically (configured policy) or learned dynamically (conveyed
    via CDNi).<br>
    <br>
    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree that we can use statically configured policy to make
    that decision.&nbsp; <br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <br>
    On 10/11/11 11:26 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:0F4FFA63-9B4E-4FC9-9B62-B12659598A8D@niven-jenkins.co.uk"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
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      <meta name="Generator" content="MS Exchange Server version
        6.5.7655.10">
      <title>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</title>
      <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
      <p><font size="2">Scott,<br>
          <br>
          On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:42, Scott Wainner wrote:<br>
          <br>
          &gt; On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Let's not forget that in building an end to end
          content service the CDN is only one component and is the
          component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific
          representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
          content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
          policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should
          be delivered.<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; The decision as to which version/copy/representation
          to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is
          implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the
          user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN
          becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; Agreed.&nbsp; This means the portal makes a decision about the
          specific content object without regard to the capabilities of
          the CDN(s).&nbsp; There is a presumption that the set of CDN's can
          deliver the content.&nbsp; That assumption has a high probability
          of success with regards to the relationship between the uCDN
          and CP because there is an explicit business relationship.&nbsp;
          That assumption may not be valid when dealing with a dCDN that
          has a business relationship with the uCDN.<br>
          <br>
          The CP will enter a business agreement with a uCDN for the
          delivery of its content and will ensure that the uCDN is able
          to deliver both the types of content the CP requires delivery
          of and to the geographic regions that the CP requires delivery
          to. That is typically known in advance as part of the
          RFP/contract negotiation between the CP &amp; the uCDN.<br>
          <br>
          The uCDN may decide to make use of dCDNs to assist in the
          delivery of some or all of that content. The technical
          interconnect of the uCDN and dCDN is not occurring in a
          vacuum. The uCDN better make sure that it can cover its
          obligations to the CP either by itself or by ensuring that it
          has one or more dCDNs that can meet those obligations for it.<br>
          <br>
          If the uCDN overcommits itself compared to its (or its dCDN's)
          capabilities bad things will happen (from the point of view of
          the CSP and the CSP's Users). The solution to that problem is
          not a technical solution IMO.<br>
          <br>
          At the end of the day CPs will talk to their CPs about what
          they require and configure policies in their platform
          appropriately. Likewise uCDNs will talk with their dCDNs about
          what they require and configure policies in their platform
          appropriately. There isn't any magical protocol dust that
          means those conversations do not need to happen and IMO if
          those conversations are happening there's no need for protocol
          semantics to duplicate what is happening outside of the CDNI
          protocols themselves as part of those conversations and the
          per-CP/per-CDN configuration happening as a result.<br>
          <br>
          &gt; So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the
          CP (portal) for the asset.&nbsp; If that URL makes sense ONLY on
          the uCDN, then somewhere outside of the CP (portal) a decision
          must be made to re-write the URL such that it is appropriate
          for the dCDN.&nbsp; That can be a simple re-write (modified FQDN
          with same PATH) or a more complex re-write (modified FQDN and
          PATH).<br>
          <br>
          I don't see how URI rewriting applies to content adaptation.
          The URI a client uses to access the same content
          representation may differ by CDN and the URI may be
          transformed as part of CDNI request routing for example but
          the content itself is not transformed - the different URIs in
          each CDN still refer to the same specific content file.<br>
          <br>
          Ben<br>
          <br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where
          the PATH structure remains unmodified and we're only changing
          the delivery point?&nbsp; In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN
          would understand how to handle the exact same PATH structure.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH
          re-write, where would this be done?&nbsp; If the CP (portal) does
          it, it needs to know information about which CDN will be used
          in order to pick the correct URL structure.&nbsp; Otherwise, the
          uCDN must do the re-write into the appropriate PATH structure
          for the dCDN.&nbsp; Is this in scope or not?<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Scott<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; Ben<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I
          feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not
          exactly correct.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then
          we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope,
          the basic unit is a content copy.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings
          deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of
          content adaptation.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of
          this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and
          Philip (BT).<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; I have shown BT with some information that I
          know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility
          is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related
          negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this
          group raising your comments or questions on this case since I
          hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls
          share in this thread.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; From: Scott Wainner [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of
          Geographic Extension yet<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; the third paragraph states the case where a
          different device is used in<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this
          use case needs to be<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to
          address the scenario where<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
          access to content from CSP-A<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp;
          The dCDN is allowed to<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A;
          however, not other users in<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve
          the content unless they<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the
          restrictions on the<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions
          on the ability of a CDN<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly
          understand the case where a<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to
          a "managed path" if<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; such content is HD while allowing the content
          distribution via an<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same
          could apply to encryption<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the
          contrary, the dCDN may have<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; its own restrictions of blocking the
          distribution of HD content while<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can
          perform a subset of<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media
          (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN
          doesn't want to offer high<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy
          addresses QoE but I don't<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN
          the uCDN and dCDN, I think<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN
          (the principle contract<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN
          (the transitive trust<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; relationship that extends the contract defined
          in (a) above)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN
          (the recognition of right<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP
          (the contract authorizing<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; the user access to the content)<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the
          b-c relationship. The user<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; is only interested in the transparency and
          interoperability of the<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the
          point that the<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the
          delivery is initiated<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN
          might use URL appended<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use
          URL appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct
          methods, but transparency<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; is only afforded if the methods are
          interoperable clearly defined when<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; the delegation for content delivery is
          executed.&nbsp; Clearly, the choice of<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; authentication method is determined by the
          respective CDN's.<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; Scott<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt;&gt; &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          <br>
        </font>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------000805080409020309030704--

From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:51:00 2011
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To: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
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Cc: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:48, Kevin J Ma wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
>  I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think
>  that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected
>  world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different
>  CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via CDN-B.
>  It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did, =
however,
>  the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will not share
>  with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI, if the uCDN
>  has access to all representations but the CP needs to enforce that
>  specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of representations (due to
>  content licensing restrictions), enforcing that probably requires
>  metadata to describe those delivery restrictions?

I'd like to understand these requirements better as I am aware of =
Content Providers that choose to use different CDNs for different =
representations based on business policy and I think that can be solved =
at the business agreement level in the same way as dealing with what =
delivery protocols or delivery footprint the Content Provider requires.

I am aware of licensing agreements that restrict what geographies =
content can be delivered from and what geographies content can be =
delivered to. Such requirements are already handled by the metadata =
proposal I co-authored through the use of SelectionACL & DeliveryACLs.=20=


However, I've not heard of a licensing agreement that mandated that some =
representations of a piece of content absolutely must be delivered by a =
different CDN to other representations of the same content.

Can you expand on the motivation and drivers behind that requirement?

Thanks
Ben

>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
>> Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
>> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would =
like to
>> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple
>> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section =
5.1.3
>> completely as suggested by Ben.
>>=20
>> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 =
does
>> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>>=20
>>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
>> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in
>> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of =
resolution-
>> based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should remain in =
some
>> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to =
allow a
>> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in which =
some
>> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the =
uCDN is
>> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
>>=20
>> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of =
representations in
>> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and
>> maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a
>> consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an =
active
>> decision they make).
>>=20
>> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider =
has
>> some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may =
produce in
>> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). =
They
>> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not
>> relevant to the point I'm making).
>>=20
>> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be =
a web
>> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through =
their
>> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the =
available
>> representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is
>> purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation =
and
>> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to =
the
>> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation =
within
>> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and
>> requests the representation they have selected (from the choice of
>> representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
>>=20
>> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to =
specific
>> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content
>> Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual
>> content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible
>> representations of the same content.
>>=20
>> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction =
of
>> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI
>> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on =
some
>> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery =
protocols it
>> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of =
the
>> content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>>=20
>> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver
>> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will =
not
>> even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
>>=20
>> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a
>> particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal =
and is
>> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by =
the
>> Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's =
portal)
>> based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently =
be
>> selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may =
only
>> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible
>> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a
>> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of =
serving,
>> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the =
uCDN for
>> that specific Content Provider's service.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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Ben,

> Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses wh=
at representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no diffe=
rent to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a specifi=
c representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" containing URIs=
 for one or more representations. At no point does the CDN get to decide wh=
ich representations the Content Provider includes in their manifest.

The CDN does not get to decide which representations the Content Provider s=
hould include, but maybe the uCDN may get to decide which representations i=
t wants to 'outsource' to the dCDN and which to deliver himself. And yes, t=
his may require changes to the manifest. However I would not want to call c=
hanging the URLs embedded in the manifest file content adaptation. As long =
as the client still has access to all content put in the manifest by the CP=
, I don't see a problem.=20

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 17:42
To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ray,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:09, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>=20
> You make the assumption that selecting a specific representation is a con=
scious decision, made either by a user or the CP, before the actual content=
 delivery commences. In this case, I agree with you completely.=20
>=20
> However, there are situations imaginable in which there is a switch betwe=
en representations during content delivery. Let's take the HTTP Adaptive St=
reaming situation for example. A given video might be encoded in 10 differe=
nt qualities (representations), ranging from a 1080p stream all the way to =
128kbps stream meant for small-screen mobile devices. Depending on network =
conditions or user preferences, a device might switch between these represe=
ntation multiple times during video delivery. In your case it will only be =
possible for a dCDN to host/deliver either all 10 of the representations, o=
r none at all. What I meant was that in some situations, a dedicated mobile=
 dCDN might want to host/deliver the content, but  not in all 10 representa=
tions since the highest quality representations (e.g. 1080p) are of no use =
to mobile clients.=20

Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses what=
 representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no differe=
nt to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a specific =
representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" containing URIs f=
or one or more representations. At no point does the CDN get to decide whic=
h representations the Content Provider includes in their manifest.

Typically, the CDN only caches those representations that are actually requ=
ested from it. Therefore it is not a black & white "all 10" or "none" as yo=
u suggest.

The Content Provider has ownership of what service they offer and the exper=
ience they want the User to experience, not the CDN. It is not acceptable f=
or a CDN to decide (outside of a business agreement) that it doesn't want t=
o support some subset of the representations the Content Provider is offeri=
ng and use "content adaptation" to modify the content to what the CDN would=
 prefer to deliver.

Ben

>=20
> I understand that this would mean that a CDN is no longer agnostic to the=
 content it delivers, but this is true for a lot of use cases that are incl=
uded in the current draft.=20
>=20
> Ray
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:26
> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like to=
 make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple repres=
entations, which would happen if we would just remove section 5.1.3 complet=
ely as suggested by Ben.=20
>=20
> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 does =
not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>=20
>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a slightl=
y different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in section 5.1  o=
f the new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-based constraints, =
that was included in betrand-02, should remain in some form. While it is no=
t the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allow a specific representati=
on to be delivered, I think a use case in which some dCDN only offers a sub=
set of the representations available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in=
 a dedicated mobile CDN).=20
>=20
> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations in=
 the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and mayb=
e by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a consequence=
 of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an active decision th=
ey make).
>=20
> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider has s=
ome content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce in a =
variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). They may=
 do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not relevant =
to the point I'm making).
>=20
> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a we=
b portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through their=
 portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the available re=
presentations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is purely =
up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation and the Cont=
ent Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to the CDN (e.g. =
by returning the appropriate URI for that representation within the CDN to =
the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and requests the repr=
esentation they have selected (from the choice of representations offered t=
o them by the Content Provider).
>=20
> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to specific=
 content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content Prov=
ider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual content t=
hat specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible representations of=
 the same content.
>=20
> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction of =
the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI scenario=
 things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some capability=
 (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols it can support=
) but I do not think that the specific representation of the content will e=
nter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>=20
> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver representat=
ions with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not even know what=
 the resolution or a particular representation is.=20
>=20
> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a part=
icular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and is only=
 offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by the Content =
Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's portal) based on th=
at User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently be selected that c=
an serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may only end up deliveri=
ng to its Users a subset of all the possible representations the Content Pr=
ovider has produced. But that is a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devic=
es the dCDN is capable of serving, not an explicit decision made by the dCD=
N and communicated to the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's service=
.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20
> This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www.=
tno.nl/emaildisclaimer
>=20


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:56:15 2011
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To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Ray,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:51, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Ben,
>=20
>> Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider =
chooses what representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive =
streaming is no different to my original example except instead of =
providing a URI for a specific representation the Content Provider =
provides a "manifest" containing URIs for one or more representations. =
At no point does the CDN get to decide which representations the Content =
Provider includes in their manifest.
>=20
> The CDN does not get to decide which representations the Content =
Provider should include, but maybe the uCDN may get to decide which =
representations it wants to 'outsource' to the dCDN and which to deliver =
himself. And yes, this may require changes to the manifest. However I =
would not want to call changing the URLs embedded in the manifest file =
content adaptation. As long as the client still has access to all =
content put in the manifest by the CP, I don't see a problem.=20

Personally I believe uCDNs are unlikely to make choices of whether to =
use a dCDN or not based on a subset of representations in a manifest. I =
think the overriding factors will be things like which network the User =
is on and what the delivery protocol is.

In any case, even if a uCDN did want to split like that then there are =
methods to achieve that without requiring rewriting the manifest.

Ben

>=20
> Ray
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 17:42
> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Ray,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:09, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Ben,
>>=20
>> You make the assumption that selecting a specific representation is a =
conscious decision, made either by a user or the CP, before the actual =
content delivery commences. In this case, I agree with you completely.=20=

>>=20
>> However, there are situations imaginable in which there is a switch =
between representations during content delivery. Let's take the HTTP =
Adaptive Streaming situation for example. A given video might be encoded =
in 10 different qualities (representations), ranging from a 1080p stream =
all the way to 128kbps stream meant for small-screen mobile devices. =
Depending on network conditions or user preferences, a device might =
switch between these representation multiple times during video =
delivery. In your case it will only be possible for a dCDN to =
host/deliver either all 10 of the representations, or none at all. What =
I meant was that in some situations, a dedicated mobile dCDN might want =
to host/deliver the content, but  not in all 10 representations since =
the highest quality representations (e.g. 1080p) are of no use to mobile =
clients.=20
>=20
> Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses =
what representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no =
different to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a =
specific representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" =
containing URIs for one or more representations. At no point does the =
CDN get to decide which representations the Content Provider includes in =
their manifest.
>=20
> Typically, the CDN only caches those representations that are actually =
requested from it. Therefore it is not a black & white "all 10" or =
"none" as you suggest.
>=20
> The Content Provider has ownership of what service they offer and the =
experience they want the User to experience, not the CDN. It is not =
acceptable for a CDN to decide (outside of a business agreement) that it =
doesn't want to support some subset of the representations the Content =
Provider is offering and use "content adaptation" to modify the content =
to what the CDN would prefer to deliver.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>>=20
>> I understand that this would mean that a CDN is no longer agnostic to =
the content it delivers, but this is true for a lot of use cases that =
are included in the current draft.=20
>>=20
>> Ray
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
>> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:26
>> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
>> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would =
like to make sure that we do not throw out all features related to =
multiple representations, which would happen if we would just remove =
section 5.1.3 completely as suggested by Ben.=20
>>=20
>> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 =
does not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>>=20
>>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a =
slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in =
section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of =
resolution-based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should =
remain in some form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision =
whether to allow a specific representation to be delivered, I think a =
use case in which some dCDN only offers a subset of the representations =
available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile =
CDN).=20
>>=20
>> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of =
representations in the way you describe. They may only deliver to a =
subset of users (and maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) =
for example as a consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as =
opposed to an active decision they make).
>>=20
>> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider =
has some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may =
produce in a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, =
etc.). They may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although =
that's not relevant to the point I'm making).
>>=20
>> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be =
a web portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider =
(through their portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of =
the available representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision =
is made is purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a =
representation and the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that =
representation to the CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for =
that representation within the CDN to the User's client). The User then =
connects to the CDN and requests the representation they have selected =
(from the choice of representations offered to them by the Content =
Provider).
>>=20
>> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to =
specific content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a =
Content Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what =
actual content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible =
representations of the same content.
>>=20
>> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction =
of the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI =
scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some =
capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols =
it can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of =
the content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>>=20
>> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver =
representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not =
even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.=20
>>=20
>> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a =
particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and =
is only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by =
the Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's =
portal) based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may =
subsequently be selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and =
that dCDN may only end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the =
possible representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is =
a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of =
serving, not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to =
the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's service.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at =
http://www.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer
>>=20
>=20


From ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl  Tue Oct 11 09:01:45 2011
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From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:01:37 +0000
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References: <20110922193639.11562.32240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4E8506FC.1020701@cisco.com> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245A694@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1581557E17E@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl> <F40BC970-746A-4032-B6BD-172676296E5D@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1581557E3D9@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl> <6972906B-FA42-4025-BDB9-FD8E60FB6CA0@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1581557E482@EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl> <A0CFC730-AE8D-40D6-8FA3-9B28E04D470B@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Ben,

> Personally I believe uCDNs are unlikely to make choices of whether to use=
 a dCDN or not based on a subset of representations in a manifest. I think =
the overriding factors will be things like which network the User is on and=
 what the delivery protocol is.

I think there might be some situations (e.g. live or mobile CDNs) where thi=
s is a valid situation. The question is whether we should allow or deny the=
se kinds of situation within our CDNI work. My personal opinion is in favor=
 of allowing it, but if the consensus should point otherwise...

Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 17:56
To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ray,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:51, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:

> Ben,
>=20
>> Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses w=
hat representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no diff=
erent to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a specif=
ic representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" containing URI=
s for one or more representations. At no point does the CDN get to decide w=
hich representations the Content Provider includes in their manifest.
>=20
> The CDN does not get to decide which representations the Content Provider=
 should include, but maybe the uCDN may get to decide which representations=
 it wants to 'outsource' to the dCDN and which to deliver himself. And yes,=
 this may require changes to the manifest. However I would not want to call=
 changing the URLs embedded in the manifest file content adaptation. As lon=
g as the client still has access to all content put in the manifest by the =
CP, I don't see a problem.=20

Personally I believe uCDNs are unlikely to make choices of whether to use a=
 dCDN or not based on a subset of representations in a manifest. I think th=
e overriding factors will be things like which network the User is on and w=
hat the delivery protocol is.

In any case, even if a uCDN did want to split like that then there are meth=
ods to achieve that without requiring rewriting the manifest.

Ben

>=20
> Ray
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 17:42
> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Ray,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 16:09, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Ben,
>>=20
>> You make the assumption that selecting a specific representation is a co=
nscious decision, made either by a user or the CP, before the actual conten=
t delivery commences. In this case, I agree with you completely.=20
>>=20
>> However, there are situations imaginable in which there is a switch betw=
een representations during content delivery. Let's take the HTTP Adaptive S=
treaming situation for example. A given video might be encoded in 10 differ=
ent qualities (representations), ranging from a 1080p stream all the way to=
 128kbps stream meant for small-screen mobile devices. Depending on network=
 conditions or user preferences, a device might switch between these repres=
entation multiple times during video delivery. In your case it will only be=
 possible for a dCDN to host/deliver either all 10 of the representations, =
or none at all. What I meant was that in some situations, a dedicated mobil=
e dCDN might want to host/deliver the content, but  not in all 10 represent=
ations since the highest quality representations (e.g. 1080p) are of no use=
 to mobile clients.=20
>=20
> Ultimately, even with adaptive streaming, the Content Provider chooses wh=
at representations they make available. HTTP Adaptive streaming is no diffe=
rent to my original example except instead of providing a URI for a specifi=
c representation the Content Provider provides a "manifest" containing URIs=
 for one or more representations. At no point does the CDN get to decide wh=
ich representations the Content Provider includes in their manifest.
>=20
> Typically, the CDN only caches those representations that are actually re=
quested from it. Therefore it is not a black & white "all 10" or "none" as =
you suggest.
>=20
> The Content Provider has ownership of what service they offer and the exp=
erience they want the User to experience, not the CDN. It is not acceptable=
 for a CDN to decide (outside of a business agreement) that it doesn't want=
 to support some subset of the representations the Content Provider is offe=
ring and use "content adaptation" to modify the content to what the CDN wou=
ld prefer to deliver.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>>=20
>> I understand that this would mean that a CDN is no longer agnostic to th=
e content it delivers, but this is true for a lot of use cases that are inc=
luded in the current draft.=20
>>=20
>> Ray
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
>> Sent: dinsdag 11 oktober 2011 15:26
>> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
>> Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all,
>>>=20
>>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like t=
o make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple repre=
sentations, which would happen if we would just remove section 5.1.3 comple=
tely as suggested by Ben.=20
>>=20
>> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3 does=
 not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>>=20
>>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a slight=
ly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in section 5.1  =
of the new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-based constraints,=
 that was included in betrand-02, should remain in some form. While it is n=
ot the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allow a specific representat=
ion to be delivered, I think a use case in which some dCDN only offers a su=
bset of the representations available on the uCDN is quite valid (such as i=
n a dedicated mobile CDN).=20
>>=20
>> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations i=
n the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and may=
be by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a consequenc=
e of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an active decision t=
hey make).
>>=20
>> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider has =
some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce in a=
 variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.). They ma=
y do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not relevant=
 to the point I'm making).
>>=20
>> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a w=
eb portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through thei=
r portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the available r=
epresentations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is purely=
 up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation and the Con=
tent Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to the CDN (e.g.=
 by returning the appropriate URI for that representation within the CDN to=
 the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and requests the rep=
resentation they have selected (from the choice of representations offered =
to them by the Content Provider).
>>=20
>> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to specifi=
c content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content Pro=
vider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual content =
that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible representations o=
f the same content.
>>=20
>> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction of=
 the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI scenari=
o things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on some capabilit=
y (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols it can suppor=
t) but I do not think that the specific representation of the content will =
enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>>=20
>> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver representa=
tions with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will not even know wha=
t the resolution or a particular representation is.=20
>>=20
>> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a par=
ticular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal and is onl=
y offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by the Content=
 Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's portal) based on t=
hat User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently be selected that =
can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may only end up deliver=
ing to its Users a subset of all the possible representations the Content P=
rovider has produced. But that is a consequence of the Network/Clients/Devi=
ces the dCDN is capable of serving, not an explicit decision made by the dC=
DN and communicated to the uCDN for that specific Content Provider's servic=
e.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> This e-mail and its contents are subject to the DISCLAIMER at http://www=
.tno.nl/emaildisclaimer
>>=20
>=20


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 11 09:04:50 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:04:18 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Ben,

  The restriction is not that content "absolutely must be delivered by a
  different CDN", the restriction is that content should only be delivered
  in specific formats to specific end users, and certain users may only
  get access through specific CDNs.  This can be (and is) enforced today by
  using different CDNs (e.g., separate CDNs for TV vs mobile).  Once those
  two CDNs combine, it removes an inherent physical restriction, which some
  CPs may have been relying on.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Kevin,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:48, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> >  I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think
> >  that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected
> >  world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different
> >  CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via CDN-B.
> >  It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did, however=
,
> >  the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will not share
> >  with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI, if the uCDN
> >  has access to all representations but the CP needs to enforce that
> >  specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of representations (due to
> >  content licensing restrictions), enforcing that probably requires
> >  metadata to describe those delivery restrictions?
>=20
> I'd like to understand these requirements better as I am aware of Content
> Providers that choose to use different CDNs for different representations
> based on business policy and I think that can be solved at the business
> agreement level in the same way as dealing with what delivery protocols o=
r
> delivery footprint the Content Provider requires.
>=20
> I am aware of licensing agreements that restrict what geographies content
> can be delivered from and what geographies content can be delivered to.
> Such requirements are already handled by the metadata proposal I co-
> authored through the use of SelectionACL & DeliveryACLs.
>=20
> However, I've not heard of a licensing agreement that mandated that some
> representations of a piece of content absolutely must be delivered by a
> different CDN to other representations of the same content.
>=20
> Can you expand on the motivation and drivers behind that requirement?
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> >> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
> >> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would like
> to
> >> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple
> >> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section
> 5.1.3
> >> completely as suggested by Ben.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3
> does
> >> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
> >>
> >>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
> >> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in
> >> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of resolution-
> >> based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should remain in
> some
> >> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to allo=
w
> a
> >> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in which
> some
> >> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the uCDN
> is
> >> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
> >>
> >> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of representations
> in
> >> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (and
> >> maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a
> >> consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an
> active
> >> decision they make).
> >>
> >> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider ha=
s
> >> some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may produce
> in
> >> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.).
> They
> >> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not
> >> relevant to the point I'm making).
> >>
> >> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be a
> web
> >> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through
> their
> >> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the availabl=
e
> >> representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made is
> >> purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representation
> and
> >> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to
> the
> >> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation
> within
> >> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and
> >> requests the representation they have selected (from the choice of
> >> representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
> >>
> >> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to
> specific
> >> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Content
> >> Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actual
> >> content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible
> >> representations of the same content.
> >>
> >> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restriction
> of
> >> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI
> >> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on
> some
> >> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery protocols
> it
> >> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of th=
e
> >> content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
> >>
> >> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver
> >> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will no=
t
> >> even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
> >>
> >> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a
> >> particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal an=
d
> is
> >> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by the
> >> Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's portal=
)
> >> based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently be
> >> selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN may
> only
> >> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible
> >> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a
> >> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of
> serving,
> >> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the uCDN
> for
> >> that specific Content Provider's service.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 09:19:33 2011
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Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>=20
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct =
that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.
>=20
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I =
am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks =
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery =
the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider =
and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what =
representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
=20
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " =
uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".=20

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).=20

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection =
of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my =
interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in =
its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. =
Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what =
the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting =
usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM =
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all =
the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>=20
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
>=20
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to =
implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred =
in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,=20
>=20
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc than for the Use cases draft.=20
>=20
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & =
to signal about this.
>=20
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, =
ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
"future" scenarios as well?=20
>=20
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.=20
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do =
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than =
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the =
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is =
rather out of scope(?)
>=20
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
>=20
> Best wishes
> phil
>=20
>=20
> Philip Eardley  =20
> Research and Technology Strategy
>=20
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> Registered in England no: 1800000
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Colleagues,
>=20
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>=20
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>=20
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>=20
> Ben
>=20
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>>=20
>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>>=20
>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>  This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension =
yet=20
>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used =
in=20
>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be=20=

>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario =
where=20
>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from =
CSP-A=20
>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed =
to=20
>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users =
in=20
>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless =
they=20
>> too have such an agreement.
>>=20
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>  Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a =
CDN=20
>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a=20=

>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if=20=

>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an=20
>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption=20=

>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have=20=

>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while=20=

>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>=20
>>  o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not =
DASH)
>>  o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer =
high=20
>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>  o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>>=20
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>=20
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I =
think=20
>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>>=20
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract=20
>> arrangement for distribution)=09
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust=20=

>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right=20
>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing=20
>> the user access to the content)
>>=20
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The =
user=20
>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the=20
>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated=20=

>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL =
appended=20
>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  =
The=20
>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but =
transparency=20
>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined =
when=20
>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice =
of=20
>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>=20
>> Scott
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 09:30:10 2011
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Cc: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 17:04, Kevin J Ma wrote:

> Ben,
>=20
>  The restriction is not that content "absolutely must be delivered by =
a
>  different CDN", the restriction is that content should only be =
delivered
>  in specific formats to specific end users, and certain users may only
>  get access through specific CDNs.  This can be (and is) enforced =
today by
>  using different CDNs (e.g., separate CDNs for TV vs mobile).  Once =
those
>  two CDNs combine, it removes an inherent physical restriction, which =
some
>  CPs may have been relying on.

The services I am aware of enforce such restrictions by requiring =
content delivery to be authenticated (e.g. through use of a =
token/cookie) and the Content Provider's portal only handing out the =
necessary tokens/cookies for certain content to the appropriate =
users/clients. By doing so there is no need to rely on some inherent =
physical separation of different CDNs in order to be able to enforce the =
COntent Provider's policy and therefore no need to rely on the implicit =
physical separation of different CDNs.

After all the entire purpose of a CDN is to offer multiple independent =
services off a single physical platform, so if a CDN is not capable of =
meeting the separation needs of the services offered by a single Content =
Provider, I'd suggest they have some pretty big issues that would mean =
it is unlikely that a Content Provider would want to use them at all for =
any kind of delivery.

Ben



>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:51 AM
>> To: Kevin J Ma
>> Cc: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Kevin,
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:48, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Ben,
>>>=20
>>> I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think
>>> that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected
>>> world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different
>>> CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via =
CDN-B.
>>> It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did, =
however,
>>> the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will not share
>>> with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI, if the =
uCDN
>>> has access to all representations but the CP needs to enforce that
>>> specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of representations (due =
to
>>> content licensing restrictions), enforcing that probably requires
>>> metadata to describe those delivery restrictions?
>>=20
>> I'd like to understand these requirements better as I am aware of =
Content
>> Providers that choose to use different CDNs for different =
representations
>> based on business policy and I think that can be solved at the =
business
>> agreement level in the same way as dealing with what delivery =
protocols or
>> delivery footprint the Content Provider requires.
>>=20
>> I am aware of licensing agreements that restrict what geographies =
content
>> can be delivered from and what geographies content can be delivered =
to.
>> Such requirements are already handled by the metadata proposal I co-
>> authored through the use of SelectionACL & DeliveryACLs.
>>=20
>> However, I've not heard of a licensing agreement that mandated that =
some
>> representations of a piece of content absolutely must be delivered by =
a
>> different CDN to other representations of the same content.
>>=20
>> Can you expand on the motivation and drivers behind that requirement?
>>=20
>> Thanks
>> Ben
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> thanx.
>>>=20
>>> --  Kevin J. Ma
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of
>>>> Ben Niven-Jenkins
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
>>>> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
>>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
>>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would =
like
>> to
>>>> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple
>>>> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section
>> 5.1.3
>>>> completely as suggested by Ben.
>>>>=20
>>>> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3
>> does
>>>> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
>>>>=20
>>>>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
>>>> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in
>>>> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of =
resolution-
>>>> based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should remain =
in
>> some
>>>> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to =
allow
>> a
>>>> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in =
which
>> some
>>>> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the =
uCDN
>> is
>>>> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
>>>>=20
>>>> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of =
representations
>> in
>>>> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users =
(and
>>>> maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a
>>>> consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an
>> active
>>>> decision they make).
>>>>=20
>>>> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider =
has
>>>> some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may =
produce
>> in
>>>> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, =
etc.).
>> They
>>>> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's =
not
>>>> relevant to the point I'm making).
>>>>=20
>>>> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may =
be a
>> web
>>>> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through
>> their
>>>> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the =
available
>>>> representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made =
is
>>>> purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a =
representation
>> and
>>>> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation =
to
>> the
>>>> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation
>> within
>>>> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN =
and
>>>> requests the representation they have selected (from the choice of
>>>> representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
>>>>=20
>>>> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to
>> specific
>>>> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a =
Content
>>>> Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what =
actual
>>>> content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible
>>>> representations of the same content.
>>>>=20
>>>> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or =
restriction
>> of
>>>> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI
>>>> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on
>> some
>>>> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery =
protocols
>> it
>>>> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of =
the
>>>> content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
>>>>=20
>>>> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver
>>>> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will =
not
>>>> even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
>>>>=20
>>>> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using =
a
>>>> particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal =
and
>> is
>>>> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by =
the
>>>> Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's =
portal)
>>>> based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently =
be
>>>> selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN =
may
>> only
>>>> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible
>>>> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a
>>>> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of
>> serving,
>>>> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the =
uCDN
>> for
>>>> that specific Content Provider's service.
>>>>=20
>>>> Ben
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CDNi mailing list
>>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Wed Oct 12 02:25:18 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected content. 
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user select.
In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP website.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the discussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media formats.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of one content to CDN-Y;
While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality. 

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> 
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
> 
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
 
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media types". 

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery). 

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> 
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.
> 
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> 
> Ben, Zhipeng, all, 
> 
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft. 
> 
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal about this.
> 
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well? 
> 
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope. 
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> 
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> 
> Best wishes
> phil
> 
> 
> Philip Eardley   
> Research and Technology Strategy
> 
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> Registered in England no: 1800000
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> 
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
> 
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> 
>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>> 
>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.
>> 
>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>> 
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>  This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet 
>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in 
>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be 
>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where 
>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A 
>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to 
>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in 
>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they 
>> too have such an agreement.
>> 
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>  Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the 
>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN 
>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a 
>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if 
>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an 
>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption 
>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have 
>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while 
>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>> 
>>  o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of 
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>>  o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high 
>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>  o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't 
>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>> 
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>> 
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think 
>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>> 
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract 
>> arrangement for distribution)	
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust 
>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right 
>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing 
>> the user access to the content)
>> 
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user 
>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the 
>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the 
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated 
>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended 
>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The 
>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency 
>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when 
>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of 
>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Wed Oct 12 02:42:10 2011
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 Sorry a typo below : 
Which solution is more competitive. it is "not" Solution 1, right.



-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng 
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 5:23 PM
To: 'Ben Niven-Jenkins'
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected content. 
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user select.
In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP website.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the discussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media formats.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of one content to CDN-Y;
While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality. 

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> 
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
> 
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
 
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media types". 

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery). 

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> 
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.
> 
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] 
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> 
> Ben, Zhipeng, all, 
> 
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft. 
> 
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal about this.
> 
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well? 
> 
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope. 
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> 
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> 
> Best wishes
> phil
> 
> 
> Philip Eardley   
> Research and Technology Strategy
> 
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> Registered in England no: 1800000
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> 
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
> 
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> 
>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>> 
>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.
>> 
>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>> 
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>  This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet 
>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in 
>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be 
>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where 
>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A 
>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to 
>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in 
>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they 
>> too have such an agreement.
>> 
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>  Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the 
>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN 
>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a 
>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if 
>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an 
>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption 
>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have 
>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while 
>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>> 
>>  o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of 
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>>  o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high 
>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>  o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't 
>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>> 
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>> 
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think 
>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>> 
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract 
>> arrangement for distribution)	
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust 
>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right 
>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing 
>> the user access to the content)
>> 
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user 
>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the 
>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the 
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated 
>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended 
>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The 
>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency 
>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when 
>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of 
>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:42:46 +0000
From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Scott,
>>I tend to agree.  Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's not clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of content adaptation that may be possible (encryption, watermark, transrate, transcode, etc.)
it means you have felt the scenario is valuable, right.
But you have some uncertainty (permutations of content adaptation).

Perhaps the content protection(encryption, watermark) is a little professional, i may just give a short conclusion that the security risk is mainly on the client not the server.
And the CDN use case has not brought new feature for the content protection. In fact the DRM work has done much complicated description of all possible scenarios.
As for transrate, transcode, too simple for the current equipment capability. And the CDNs(not CDN interconnection) may support such functionalities.


Zhipeng


From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:42 PM
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
I tend to agree.  Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's not clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of content adaptation that may be possible (encryption, watermark, transrate, transcode, etc.)


Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
Agreed.  This means the portal makes a decision about the specific content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).  There is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the content.  That assumption has a high probability of success with regards to the relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is an explicit business relationship.  That assumption may not be valid when dealing with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the uCDN.

So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal) for the asset.  If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then somewhere outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to re-write the URL such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.  That can be a simple re-write (modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more complex re-write (modified FQDN and PATH).

Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery point?  In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how to handle the exact same PATH structure.

If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where would this be done?  If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the correct URL structure.  Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write into the appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.  Is this in scope or not?

Scott


Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.
>
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>   This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in
> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where
> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A
> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to
> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> too have such an agreement.
>
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>   Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN
> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>
>   o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>   o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> bit-rate variants of the media
>   o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>
> Section 10 Security Considerations
>
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think
> we can describe this in four contexts:
>
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right
> to download predicated on (b) above)
> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> the user access to the content)
>
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user
> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The
> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>
> Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">&gt;&gt;</span><span lang="EN-US">I tend to agree.&nbsp; Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's not clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of content adaptation that may be possible (encryption,
 watermark, transrate, transcode, etc.)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">it means you have felt the scenario is valuable, right.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But you have some uncertainty (</span><span lang="EN-US">permutations of content adaptation</span><span lang="EN-US">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps the content protection(</span><span lang="EN-US">encryption, watermark</span><span lang="EN-US">)
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">is a little professional, i may just give a short conclusion that the security risk is mainly on the client not the server.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">And the CDN use case has not brought new feature for the content protection. In fact the DRM work has done much complicated description of all
 possible scenarios.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As for
</span><span lang="EN-US">transrate, transcode</span><span lang="EN-US">, </span>
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">too simple for the current equipment capability. And the CDNs(not CDN interconnection) may support such functionalities.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext"> Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On 10/10/11 7:04 AM, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">Colleagues,<br>
<br>
IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that
 is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I tend to agree.&nbsp; Although content adaptation may be desirable, it's not clear that we could effectively bound the number permutations of content adaptation that may be possible (encryption, watermark, transrate, transcode,
 etc.)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with
 deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.<br>
<br>
The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the
 delivery of the selected content).</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Agreed.&nbsp; This means the portal makes a decision about the specific content object without regard to the capabilities of the CDN(s).&nbsp; There is a presumption that the set of CDN's can deliver the content.&nbsp; That assumption
 has a high probability of success with regards to the relationship between the uCDN and CP because there is an explicit business relationship.&nbsp; That assumption may not be valid when dealing with a dCDN that has a business relationship with the uCDN.<br>
<br>
So let's assume there is ONE URL that is provided by the CP (portal) for the asset.&nbsp; If that URL makes sense ONLY on the uCDN, then somewhere outside of the CP (portal) a decision must be made to re-write the URL such that it is appropriate for the dCDN.&nbsp; That
 can be a simple re-write (modified FQDN with same PATH) or a more complex re-write (modified FQDN and PATH).<br>
<br>
Are we bounding the use case ONLY those scenarios where the PATH structure remains unmodified and we're only changing the delivery point?&nbsp; In this case, the uCDN and every dCDN would understand how to handle the exact same PATH structure.<br>
<br>
If the use case is expanded to include the URL PATH re-write, where would this be done?&nbsp; If the CP (portal) does it, it needs to know information about which CDN will be used in order to pick the correct URL structure.&nbsp; Otherwise, the uCDN must do the re-write
 into the appropriate PATH structure for the dCDN.&nbsp; Is this in scope or not?<br>
<br>
Scott<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
Ben<br>
<br>
On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.<br>
&gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Here the first bullet &quot;a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed the case of content adaptation.<br>
&gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).<br>
&gt; I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.<br>
&gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.<br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Scott Wainner [<a href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
&gt; To: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet<br>
&gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in<br>
&gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent of this use case needs to be<br>
&gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where<br>
&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A<br>
&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.&nbsp; The dCDN is allowed to<br>
&gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in<br>
&gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they<br>
&gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the<br>
&gt; delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN<br>
&gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I certainly understand the case where a<br>
&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a &quot;managed path&quot; if<br>
&gt; such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an<br>
&gt; un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption<br>
&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On the contrary, the dCDN may have<br>
&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while<br>
&gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>
&gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high<br>
&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't<br>
&gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think<br>
&gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract<br>
&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
&gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust<br>
&gt; relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)<br>
&gt; c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right<br>
&gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
&gt; d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing<br>
&gt; the user access to the content)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user<br>
&gt; is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the<br>
&gt; security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the<br>
&gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated<br>
&gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended<br>
&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.&nbsp; The<br>
&gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency<br>
&gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when<br>
&gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed.&nbsp; Clearly, the choice of<br>
&gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Scott<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Wed Oct 12 10:12:45 2011
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Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.=20
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the =
CDN to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand =
the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not =
help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
>=20
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever =
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, =
namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and =
control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
=20
> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
>=20
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located =
in France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format =
of one content to CDN-Y;
> While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may =
conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while =
in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
>=20
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.=20

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN =
may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben
=20
> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
>=20
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
>=20
> Br,
> Zhipeng
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>> Ben and Philip,
>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>>=20
>> Ben,
>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely =
correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN =
system.
>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.
>>=20
>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I =
am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
>=20
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
>=20
>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way =
" uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".=20
>=20
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).=20
>=20
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM =
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
>> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all =
the systems should be granted by the content owner.
>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>>=20
>> Philip,
>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may save investment if the system may support different services.
>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
>>=20
>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that =
to implement this is rather simple .
>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be =
referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]=20
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Ben, Zhipeng, all,=20
>>=20
>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc than for the Use cases draft.=20
>>=20
>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & =
to signal about this.
>>=20
>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, =
ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
"future" scenarios as well?=20
>>=20
>> Scott,
>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.=20
>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do =
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than =
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the =
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is =
rather out of scope(?)
>>=20
>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
>>=20
>> Best wishes
>> phil
>>=20
>>=20
>> Philip Eardley  =20
>> Research and Technology Strategy
>>=20
>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
>> British Telecommunications plc
>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
>> Registered in England no: 1800000
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Colleagues,
>>=20
>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>>=20
>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>>=20
>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>=20
>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>>>=20
>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>>>=20
>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]=20
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension =
yet=20
>>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used =
in=20
>>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be=20=

>>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario =
where=20
>>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from =
CSP-A=20
>>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed =
to=20
>>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users =
in=20
>>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless =
they=20
>>> too have such an agreement.
>>>=20
>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the=20
>>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a =
CDN=20
>>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where =
a=20
>>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if=20=

>>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an=20
>>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to =
encryption=20
>>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may =
have=20
>>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while=20
>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>>=20
>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of=20
>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not =
DASH)
>>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer =
high=20
>>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't=20
>>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>>>=20
>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>>=20
>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I =
think=20
>>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>>>=20
>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract=20
>>> arrangement for distribution)=09
>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust=20=

>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right=20
>>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing=20
>>> the user access to the content)
>>>=20
>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The =
user=20
>>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the=20=

>>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the=20
>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is =
initiated=20
>>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL =
appended=20
>>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  =
The=20
>>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but =
transparency=20
>>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined =
when=20
>>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the =
choice of=20
>>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>>=20
>>> Scott
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Wed Oct 12 16:41:29 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:41:24 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Ben,

  While I agree that authentication is also a good feature, it is
  not exactly the same as preventing delegation.  Having users never
  ask for content-A over CDN-B, is not the same as preventing
  content-A from ever being delivered over CDN-B, where a less than
  lawful user could still possibly get to content-A via CDN-B.
  There will always be prevention measures, but the ability to
  blacklist/whitelist dCDNs for specific content seems like a
  reasonable thing to do, and should be achievable via metadata?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:30 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Kevin,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 17:04, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
> > Ben,
> >
> >  The restriction is not that content "absolutely must be delivered by a
> >  different CDN", the restriction is that content should only be
> delivered
> >  in specific formats to specific end users, and certain users may only
> >  get access through specific CDNs.  This can be (and is) enforced today
> by
> >  using different CDNs (e.g., separate CDNs for TV vs mobile).  Once
> those
> >  two CDNs combine, it removes an inherent physical restriction, which
> some
> >  CPs may have been relying on.
>=20
> The services I am aware of enforce such restrictions by requiring content
> delivery to be authenticated (e.g. through use of a token/cookie) and the
> Content Provider's portal only handing out the necessary tokens/cookies
> for certain content to the appropriate users/clients. By doing so there i=
s
> no need to rely on some inherent physical separation of different CDNs in
> order to be able to enforce the COntent Provider's policy and therefore n=
o
> need to rely on the implicit physical separation of different CDNs.
>=20
>=20
> After all the entire purpose of a CDN is to offer multiple independent
> services off a single physical platform, so if a CDN is not capable of
> meeting the separation needs of the services offered by a single Content
> Provider, I'd suggest they have some pretty big issues that would mean it
> is unlikely that a Content Provider would want to use them at all for any
> kind of delivery.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:51 AM
> >> To: Kevin J Ma
> >> Cc: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Kevin,
> >>
> >> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:48, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Ben,
> >>>
> >>> I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think
> >>> that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected
> >>> world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different
> >>> CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via CDN-B.
> >>> It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did,
> however,
> >>> the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will not share
> >>> with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI, if the uCDN
> >>> has access to all representations but the CP needs to enforce that
> >>> specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of representations (due to
> >>> content licensing restrictions), enforcing that probably requires
> >>> metadata to describe those delivery restrictions?
> >>
> >> I'd like to understand these requirements better as I am aware of
> Content
> >> Providers that choose to use different CDNs for different
> representations
> >> based on business policy and I think that can be solved at the busines=
s
> >> agreement level in the same way as dealing with what delivery protocol=
s
> or
> >> delivery footprint the Content Provider requires.
> >>
> >> I am aware of licensing agreements that restrict what geographies
> content
> >> can be delivered from and what geographies content can be delivered to=
.
> >> Such requirements are already handled by the metadata proposal I co-
> >> authored through the use of SelectionACL & DeliveryACLs.
> >>
> >> However, I've not heard of a licensing agreement that mandated that
> some
> >> representations of a piece of content absolutely must be delivered by =
a
> >> different CDN to other representations of the same content.
> >>
> >> Can you expand on the motivation and drivers behind that requirement?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>>
> >>> thanx.
> >>>
> >>> --  Kevin J. Ma
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >>>> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
> >>>> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> >>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> >>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would
> like
> >> to
> >>>> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple
> >>>> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section
> >> 5.1.3
> >>>> completely as suggested by Ben.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3
> >> does
> >>>> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
> >>>>
> >>>>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
> >>>> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in
> >>>> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of
> resolution-
> >>>> based constraints, that was included in betrand-02, should remain in
> >> some
> >>>> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to
> allow
> >> a
> >>>> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in which
> >> some
> >>>> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the
> uCDN
> >> is
> >>>> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of
> representations
> >> in
> >>>> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users (an=
d
> >>>> maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example as a
> >>>> consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed to an
> >> active
> >>>> decision they make).
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider
> has
> >>>> some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may
> produce
> >> in
> >>>> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.).
> >> They
> >>>> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's not
> >>>> relevant to the point I'm making).
> >>>>
> >>>> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may be
> a
> >> web
> >>>> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through
> >> their
> >>>> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the
> available
> >>>> representations (e.g. by device type but how that decision is made i=
s
> >>>> purely up to the Content Provider). The User selects a representatio=
n
> >> and
> >>>> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation to
> >> the
> >>>> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation
> >> within
> >>>> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN and
> >>>> requests the representation they have selected (from the choice of
> >>>> representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
> >>>>
> >>>> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to
> >> specific
> >>>> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a Conten=
t
> >>>> Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of what actua=
l
> >>>> content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of X possible
> >>>> representations of the same content.
> >>>>
> >>>> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or restrictio=
n
> >> of
> >>>> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI
> >>>> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on
> >> some
> >>>> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery
> protocols
> >> it
> >>>> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of
> the
> >>>> content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
> >>>>
> >>>> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver
> >>>> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will
> not
> >>>> even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
> >>>>
> >>>> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using a
> >>>> particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's portal
> and
> >> is
> >>>> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by
> the
> >>>> Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's
> portal)
> >>>> based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may subsequently
> be
> >>>> selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service and that dCDN ma=
y
> >> only
> >>>> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible
> >>>> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a
> >>>> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of
> >> serving,
> >>>> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the
> uCDN
> >> for
> >>>> that specific Content Provider's service.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CDNi mailing list
> >>>> CDNi@ietf.org
> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Wed Oct 12 16:41:42 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:41:35 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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References: <20110922193639.11562.32240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4E8506FC.1020701@cisco.com> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245A694@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AA42@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1E5D2F7D-D855-4082-97EA-E609F089D4D3@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AD64@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <166602C2-3084-4EED-A6DA-E772C4A72136@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Hi all,

  Just wanted to get back to the point that Phil raised earlier:

  > did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to
  > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
  > "future" scenarios as well?

  Are we saying that only "initial" scenarios should be documented?

  Many of the "future" scenarios seem as though opaque metadata would
  be sufficient?  If so, does defining optional metadata significantly
  increase our workload?

  e.g.: Given two pieces of metadata: "format" and "allow transform",
  are they sufficient to support a content transformation use case?
  The latter can by default prevent transformation, and the former
  provides the information necessary to do transformation, assuming
  transformation is allowed?  Beyond that, CDNI should be indifferent,
  and the dCDN is either empowered to optimize or not, as determined
  by the content provider who set the metadata?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
> > Hello Ben,
> > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user
> only desires to get his selected content.
> > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the
> user.
> > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the
> CDN to deliver to user.
> > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> transform to the format as the user select.
>
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) i=
s
> to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content fro=
m
> a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time
> frame (18-24 months).
>
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in orde=
r
> to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> adaptation).
>
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand
> the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help
> us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>
> > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on C=
P
> website.
> > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
> assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the
> discussion).
> >
> > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
> raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting
> media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the cor=
e
> functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and tak=
e
> deep look.
>
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
> namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>
> > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
> their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
> interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
> care how the voice is transformed in process.
> >
> > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> formats.
> > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located
> in France.
> > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN=
-
> Y).
> > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of
> one content to CDN-Y;
> > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> conduct some adaptation.
> > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely
> the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while
> in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> transformation to output 10 streams.
> >
> > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember
> the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it i=
s
> not a core functionality.
>
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN
> may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
> delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations
> that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the interna=
l
> workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
>
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected
> CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solution=
s
> that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do
> not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it
> will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs
> solutions within.
>
> Ben
>
> > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
> types as required by the market.
> >
> > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
> the interconnection may not be operated.
> >
> > Br,
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> >> Ben and Philip,
> >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> >>
> >> Ben,
> >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> CDN.
> >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct
> that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether
> the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
> >>
> >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I
> am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> claim it support different medias.
> >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GS=
M
> voice to G.711.
> >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> systems, right.
> >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to
> this case above.
> >
> > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile network=
s
> being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery th=
e
> negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and
> the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client
> or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> >
> >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way "
> uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> support multiple media types".
> >
> > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
> required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that
> delivery).
> >
> > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnectio=
n
> of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its
> charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's
> not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
> specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all
> the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint)
> should be protected also.
> >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> >>
> >> Philip,
> >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements=
"
> but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it
> may save investment if the system may support different services.
> >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may
> support different service systems.
> >>
> >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
> implement this is rather simple .
> >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred
> in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> >> Thanks.
> >> Zhipeng
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> >>
> >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements
> doc than for the Use cases draft.
> >>
> >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to
> cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & t=
o
> signal about this.
> >>
> >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement,
> ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to
> "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> "future" scenarios as well?
> >>
> >> Scott,
> >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
> adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do wit=
h
> the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata
> associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, =
I
> think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> >>
> >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust i=
s
> transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
> However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility
> is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> phil
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Eardley
> >> Research and Technology Strategy
> >>
> >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above=
.
> If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received
> this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address
> above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails=
.
> >> British Telecommunications plc
> >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> >> Registered in England no: 1800000
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Colleagues,
> >>
> >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
> Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming
> it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN
> which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit
> knowledge of what that content actually is.
> >>
> >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CD=
N
> is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the
> selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> delivered.
> >>
> >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allo=
w
> to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN
> (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection
> prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> content).
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >>
> >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content
> with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy=
.
> >>>
> >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
> devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and take=
n
> some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement
> for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> interconnection.
> >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Zhipeng
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>>
> >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used
> in
> >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> where
> >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> CSP-A
> >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed
> to
> >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users i=
n
> >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless the=
y
> >>> too have such an agreement.
> >>>
> >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> CDN
> >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >>>
> >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH)
> >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >>>
> >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> >>>
> >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think
> >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> >>>
> >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> contract
> >>> arrangement for distribution)
> >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> right
> >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizin=
g
> >>> the user access to the content)
> >>>
> >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user
> >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appende=
d
> >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> The
> >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparenc=
y
> >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined whe=
n
> >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice
> of
> >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CDNi mailing list
> >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Wed Oct 12 18:51:28 2011
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Ben,
I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating your personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the dCDN.
But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution that will be used by the market.
If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just the problem for its deployment.

Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I do not know whether you have any special concern that will make you feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via reflector or to you individually.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected content. 
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the discussion).
> 
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
 
> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> 
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media formats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of one content to CDN-Y;
> While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.
> 
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality. 

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben
 
> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.
> 
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> 
> Br,
> Zhipeng
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> 
> Zhipeng,
> 
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> 
>> Ben and Philip,
>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>> 
>> Ben,
>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
>> 
>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.
>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.
>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this case above.
> 
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> 
>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media types". 
> 
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery). 
> 
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> 
> Ben
> 
>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
>> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.
>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.
>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>> 
>> Philip,
>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system may support different services.
>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.
>> 
>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .
>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>> 
>> Ben, Zhipeng, all, 
>> 
>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft. 
>> 
>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal about this.
>> 
>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well? 
>> 
>> Scott,
>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope. 
>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
>> 
>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> phil
>> 
>> 
>> Philip Eardley   
>> Research and Technology Strategy
>> 
>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
>> British Telecommunications plc
>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
>> Registered in England no: 1800000
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>> 
>> Colleagues,
>> 
>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>> 
>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
>> 
>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
>> 
>> Ben
>> 
>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>> 
>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>>> 
>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.
>>> 
>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com] 
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>> 
>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet 
>>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used in 
>>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be 
>>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario where 
>>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from CSP-A 
>>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed to 
>>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in 
>>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they 
>>> too have such an agreement.
>>> 
>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
>>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the 
>>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN 
>>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a 
>>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if 
>>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an 
>>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption 
>>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have 
>>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while 
>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>> 
>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of 
>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not DASH)
>>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high 
>>> bit-rate variants of the media
>>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't 
>>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
>>> 
>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>> 
>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I think 
>>> we can describe this in four contexts:
>>> 
>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract 
>>> arrangement for distribution)	
>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust 
>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
>>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right 
>>> to download predicated on (b) above)
>>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing 
>>> the user access to the content)
>>> 
>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The user 
>>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the 
>>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the 
>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated 
>>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended 
>>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.  The 
>>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency 
>>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when 
>>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of 
>>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> 


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Wed Oct 12 19:44:52 2011
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To: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Zhipeng,

  One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
  (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
  are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
  to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> ZhouZhipeng
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Ben,
> I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating you=
r
> personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the dCDN.
> But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution
> that will be used by the market.
> If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just the
> problem for its deployment.
>
> Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it will
> bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I do
> not know whether you have any special concern that will make you feel it
> would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via reflector
> or to you individually.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
> > Hello Ben,
> > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user
> only desires to get his selected content.
> > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the
> user.
> > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the
> CDN to deliver to user.
> > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> transform to the format as the user select.
>
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) i=
s
> to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content fro=
m
> a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time
> frame (18-24 months).
>
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in orde=
r
> to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> adaptation).
>
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand
> the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help
> us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>
> > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on C=
P
> website.
> > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
> assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the
> discussion).
> >
> > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
> raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting
> media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the cor=
e
> functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and tak=
e
> deep look.
>
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
> namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>
> > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
> their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
> interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
> care how the voice is transformed in process.
> >
> > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> formats.
> > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located
> in France.
> > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN=
-
> Y).
> > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of
> one content to CDN-Y;
> > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> conduct some adaptation.
> > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely
> the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while
> in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> transformation to output 10 streams.
> >
> > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember
> the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it i=
s
> not a core functionality.
>
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN
> may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
> delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations
> that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the interna=
l
> workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
>
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected
> CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solution=
s
> that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do
> not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it
> will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs
> solutions within.
>
> Ben
>
> > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
> types as required by the market.
> >
> > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
> the interconnection may not be operated.
> >
> > Br,
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> >> Ben and Philip,
> >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> >>
> >> Ben,
> >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> CDN.
> >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct
> that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether
> the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
> >>
> >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I
> am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> claim it support different medias.
> >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GS=
M
> voice to G.711.
> >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> systems, right.
> >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to
> this case above.
> >
> > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile network=
s
> being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery th=
e
> negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and
> the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client
> or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> >
> >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way "
> uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> support multiple media types".
> >
> > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
> required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that
> delivery).
> >
> > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnectio=
n
> of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its
> charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's
> not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
> specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all
> the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint)
> should be protected also.
> >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> >>
> >> Philip,
> >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements=
"
> but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it
> may save investment if the system may support different services.
> >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may
> support different service systems.
> >>
> >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
> implement this is rather simple .
> >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred
> in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> >> Thanks.
> >> Zhipeng
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> >>
> >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements
> doc than for the Use cases draft.
> >>
> >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to
> cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & t=
o
> signal about this.
> >>
> >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement,
> ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to
> "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> "future" scenarios as well?
> >>
> >> Scott,
> >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
> adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do wit=
h
> the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata
> associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, =
I
> think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> >>
> >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust i=
s
> transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
> However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility
> is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> phil
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Eardley
> >> Research and Technology Strategy
> >>
> >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above=
.
> If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received
> this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address
> above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails=
.
> >> British Telecommunications plc
> >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> >> Registered in England no: 1800000
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Colleagues,
> >>
> >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
> Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming
> it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN
> which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit
> knowledge of what that content actually is.
> >>
> >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CD=
N
> is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the
> selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> delivered.
> >>
> >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allo=
w
> to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN
> (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection
> prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> content).
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >>
> >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content
> with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy=
.
> >>>
> >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
> devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and take=
n
> some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement
> for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> interconnection.
> >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Zhipeng
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>>
> >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used
> in
> >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> where
> >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> CSP-A
> >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed
> to
> >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users i=
n
> >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless the=
y
> >>> too have such an agreement.
> >>>
> >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> CDN
> >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >>>
> >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH)
> >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >>>
> >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> >>>
> >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think
> >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> >>>
> >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> contract
> >>> arrangement for distribution)
> >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> right
> >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizin=
g
> >>> the user access to the content)
> >>>
> >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user
> >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appende=
d
> >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> The
> >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparenc=
y
> >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined whe=
n
> >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice
> of
> >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CDNi mailing list
> >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Wed Oct 12 20:26:20 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin,

As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact is decided by the CP.
Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.

For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email for reference:
Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM implementation is independent.
If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole process should be granted by the CP.
For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal and the interface between the SP/Client.
You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server( these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.

Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.

Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
  (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
  are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
  to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> ZhouZhipeng
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Ben,
> I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating your
> personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the dCDN.
> But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution
> that will be used by the market.
> If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just the
> problem for its deployment.
>
> Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it will
> bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I do
> not know whether you have any special concern that will make you feel it
> would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via reflector
> or to you individually.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
> > Hello Ben,
> > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user
> only desires to get his selected content.
> > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the
> user.
> > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the
> CDN to deliver to user.
> > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> transform to the format as the user select.
>
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is
> to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from
> a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time
> frame (18-24 months).
>
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order
> to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> adaptation).
>
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand
> the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help
> us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>
> > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP
> website.
> > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
> assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the
> discussion).
> >
> > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
> raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting
> media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core
> functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take
> deep look.
>
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
> namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>
> > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
> their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
> interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
> care how the voice is transformed in process.
> >
> > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> formats.
> > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located
> in France.
> > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-
> Y).
> > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of
> one content to CDN-Y;
> > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> conduct some adaptation.
> > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely
> the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while
> in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> transformation to output 10 streams.
> >
> > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember
> the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is
> not a core functionality.
>
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN
> may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
> delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations
> that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal
> workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
>
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected
> CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions
> that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do
> not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it
> will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs
> solutions within.
>
> Ben
>
> > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
> types as required by the market.
> >
> > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
> the interconnection may not be operated.
> >
> > Br,
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> >> Ben and Philip,
> >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> >>
> >> Ben,
> >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> CDN.
> >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct
> that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether
> the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
> >>
> >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I
> am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> claim it support different medias.
> >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM
> voice to G.711.
> >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> systems, right.
> >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to
> this case above.
> >
> > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks
> being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the
> negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and
> the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client
> or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> >
> >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way "
> uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> support multiple media types".
> >
> > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
> required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that
> delivery).
> >
> > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection
> of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its
> charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's
> not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
> specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all
> the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint)
> should be protected also.
> >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> >>
> >> Philip,
> >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements"
> but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it
> may save investment if the system may support different services.
> >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may
> support different service systems.
> >>
> >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
> implement this is rather simple .
> >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred
> in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> >> Thanks.
> >> Zhipeng
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> >>
> >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements
> doc than for the Use cases draft.
> >>
> >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to
> cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to
> signal about this.
> >>
> >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement,
> ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to
> "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> "future" scenarios as well?
> >>
> >> Scott,
> >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
> adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do with
> the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata
> associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far, I
> think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> >>
> >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is
> transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
> However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility
> is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> phil
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip Eardley
> >> Research and Technology Strategy
> >>
> >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above.
> If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received
> this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address
> above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
> >> British Telecommunications plc
> >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> >> Registered in England no: 1800000
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >> Colleagues,
> >>
> >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
> Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming
> it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN
> which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit
> knowledge of what that content actually is.
> >>
> >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN
> is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the
> selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> delivered.
> >>
> >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow
> to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN
> (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection
> prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> content).
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >>
> >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content
> with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
> >>>
> >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
> devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken
> some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement
> for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> interconnection.
> >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> incorporated in the use case draft.
> >>>
> >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Zhipeng
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>>
> >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension yet
> >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used
> in
> >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> where
> >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> CSP-A
> >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed
> to
> >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users in
> >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless they
> >>> too have such an agreement.
> >>>
> >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> CDN
> >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where a
> >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to encryption
> >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have
> >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> >>>
> >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH)
> >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer high
> >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> >>>
> >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> >>>
> >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think
> >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> >>>
> >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> contract
> >>> arrangement for distribution)
> >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> right
> >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract authorizing
> >>> the user access to the content)
> >>>
> >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user
> >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
> >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL appended
> >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> The
> >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but transparency
> >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined when
> >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice
> of
> >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CDNi mailing list
> >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Wed Oct 12 21:01:43 2011
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To: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact is
> decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the mobile
> video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video service, then it
> may require the CDN to support multiple video formats. The multi-screen
> service means the content source is from the same CP while the target
> devices/clients include different groups. All content businesses are unde=
r
> the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal and
> the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and we
> do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and encryp=
t
> the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt or just
> deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a genera=
l
> scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution
> > that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just the
> > problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it wil=
l
> > bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you feel i=
t
> > would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via reflecto=
r
> > or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by th=
e
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask th=
e
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short tim=
e
> > frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> > multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> > adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expan=
d
> > the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have eve=
r
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisf=
y
> > their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
> > interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while no=
t
> > care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are locate=
d
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; whil=
e
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> > select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CD=
N
> > may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations
> > that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> > core function required to enable content delivery between interconnecte=
d
> > CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it
> > will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> > solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they need=
s
> > solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the medi=
a
> > types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
> > the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whethe=
r
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", =
I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> > claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider an=
d
> > the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> > negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> > representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Clien=
t
> > or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> > interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usabl=
e
> > specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since i=
t
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirement=
s
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able t=
o
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement=
,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> > don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata
> > associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far=
,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> > uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibilit=
y
> > is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've receive=
d
> > this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email addres=
s
> > above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> > >> Registered in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Conten=
t
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transformin=
g
> > it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit
> > knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the
> > selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CD=
N
> > (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selectio=
n
> > prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> > content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specifi=
c
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requiremen=
t
> > for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> > interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread=
.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is use=
d
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to b=
e
> > >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowe=
d
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> > >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of =
a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" i=
f
> > >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> > >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Wed Oct 12 22:27:58 2011
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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:26:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin,
For the content distribution scenario, I like share the real case of Olypic games.
The NBC sells to CCTV the copy right of Olypic game content including all kinds of media channel within China Mainland. CCTV may use the content in its own TV system meanwhile it resell the copy right to specific channel including MTV and internet video channels.
You may see in this business, the original content has been transformed for different target consumers and each channel has its own DRM solutions(Cable TV uses CA, others use OMA DRM,etc.)

As for the content quality, as I know for example the IPTV, the USA content producer only provides the HD format to the IPTV operator, but the IPTV operator may provide both HD and SD channel. The content encryption/transcoding/delivery are all done by iptv operator while the CP should has grant that.
The CP only provide the source content while the equipments are all belonged to the operators. 

CDN is a channel while it is a business channel. Even the content is not encrypted, the CDN would not attack the content. For example the content with advertisement, the CDN would not replace the original advertisement for its own advertisement. Otherwise the CDN may not continue its own business.

In fact your question is to analyze what job/role is done by CP and operators. 
I check that azuki platform includes the DRM capabilities. Of course I like to know your more information on this issue.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 12:02 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact is
> decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the mobile
> video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video service, then it
> may require the CDN to support multiple video formats. The multi-screen
> service means the content source is from the same CP while the target
> devices/clients include different groups. All content businesses are under
> the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal and
> the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and we
> do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and encrypt
> the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt or just
> deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a general
> scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution
> > that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just the
> > problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it will
> > bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you feel it
> > would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via reflector
> > or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time
> > frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> > multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> > adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand
> > the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
> > their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
> > interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
> > care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> > select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN
> > may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations
> > that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> > core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected
> > CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it
> > will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> > solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs
> > solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
> > types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
> > the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> > claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and
> > the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> > negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> > representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client
> > or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> > interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
> > specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> > don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than metadata
> > associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> > uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility
> > is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received
> > this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address
> > above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
> > >> Registered in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming
> > it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit
> > knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the
> > selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN
> > (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection
> > prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> > content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement
> > for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> > interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs to be
> > >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> > >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed path" if
> > >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> > >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> > >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From grant.watson@bt.com  Thu Oct 13 03:34:18 2011
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I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even a=
ctively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN o=
r by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that =
to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in anothe=
r geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely =
scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transpare=
ntly, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices =
/ screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objec=
ts requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by t=
ransparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue f=
or CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect =
CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely d=
eployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created=
 by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kev=
in J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation=
.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to reque=
st.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is=
 transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread=
.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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From hexiaoyan@huawei.com  Thu Oct 13 04:29:34 2011
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From: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
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Dera all,
I've submitted a new I-D on CDNI Request Routing Protocol, your comments are welcome.
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protocol-00.txt

Best Regards
Xiaoyan(Susan) He

-----Original Message-----
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:25 PM
To: hexiaoyan@huawei.com
Cc: cheng@gsta.com; hexiaoyan@huawei.com; lijincheng@huawei.com; spencer.dawkins@huawei.com
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protocol-00.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protocol-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Xiaoyan He and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:	 draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protocol
Revision:	 00
Title:		 Request Routing Protocol for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:	 2011-10-13
WG ID:		 Individual Submission
Number of pages: 22

Abstract:
  The Request Routing Protocol allows the Request Routing system in
  interconnected Content Delivery Network(CDNs) to communicate
  to ensure that an end user request can be (re)directed from an
  upstream CDN to a surrogate in the downstream CDN. This document
  describes the details of the protocol used to provide this mechanism.


                                                                                  


The IETF Secretariat


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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Seems there are potentially two classes of use cases:

1) Premium Content - CSP specifies available formats, encrypts, 
establishes relationship with client, agrees upon the available formats, 
and provides the client with a URL of their authorized delivery partner 
(uCDN) with permission to delegate delivery (assuming no content 
modification).  The uCDN needs to qualify the dCDN via CDNi; however, 
the dCDN will merely be a transparent transfer point.  The URL provided 
by the CSP needs to be modified somehow to point to the dCDN delivery 
node as opposed to the uCDN delivery node.   The selected format (by the 
client) may NOT be viable for delivery over the dCDN; therefore, the 
uCDN should not delegate the delivery.  That is the point of CDNi.

NOTE: I still think there needs to be some basic elements covered by 
CDNi that addresses client <-> CDN authentication methods.  CDN's use 
different authentication methods that ALLOW the client to even talk to 
the delivery nodes.

2) Public Content - CSP provides content in a specified format, 
unencrypted, doesn't specify the potential alternative formats, but 
provides the client with a URL of their preferred delivery partner 
(uCDN) with implicit permission to delegate delivery.  No assumption or 
assertion is made about content modification.  From the uCDN's 
perspective, they are simply looking for the dCDN's ability to delivery 
the content as presented by the CSP.  The dCDN may indicate that it can 
deliver the content in which case the uCDN delegates the delivery.  At 
this point, the dCDN is at liberty to transcode / transrate the content 
to optimize their transport resources.  What knowledge does the dCDN 
have that the client can actually receive the modified content?

The only way I can see (2) being resolved is if the dCDN had knowledge 
(metadata) about the capabilities / limitations of the client or a 
bounded set of viable adaptations of the content itself.

Scott

On 10/13/11 12:01 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
>   below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
>   benefit if they already have custom servers and security?
>
>   Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
>   encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
>   not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
>   that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
>   processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
>   CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in 
> fact is
> > decided by the CP.
> > Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the mobile
> > video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video service, 
> then it
> > may require the CDN to support multiple video formats. The multi-screen
> > service means the content source is from the same CP while the target
> > devices/clients include different groups. All content businesses are 
> under
> > the permission of the content owner.
> >
> > For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email for
> > reference:
> > Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> > And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> > implementation is independent.
> > If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> > process should be granted by the CP.
> > For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal and
> > the interface between the SP/Client.
> > You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and we
> > do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> > Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> > these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and 
> encrypt
> > the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt or just
> > deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
> >
> > Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a 
> general
> > scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> >   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
> >   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers 
> generally
> >   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust 
> dCDNs
> >   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of
> > > ZhouZhipeng
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Ben,
> > > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only repeating
> > your
> > > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> > dCDN.
> > > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper solution
> > > that will be used by the market.
> > > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is 
> just the
> > > problem for its deployment.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how 
> it will
> > > bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in fact and I
> > do
> > > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you 
> feel it
> > > would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via 
> reflector
> > > or to you individually.
> > > Thanks.
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Ben,
> > > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> > user
> > > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried 
> by the
> > > user.
> > > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and 
> ask the
> > > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
> > > transform to the format as the user select.
> > >
> > > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI 
> charter)
> > is
> > > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content
> > from
> > > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a 
> short time
> > > frame (18-24 months).
> > >
> > > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> > order
> > > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
> > > multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
> > > adaptation).
> > >
> > > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to 
> expand
> > > the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not
> > help
> > > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> > >
> > > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select 
> formats on
> > CP
> > > website.
> > > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> > CDN(your
> > > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for
> > the
> > > discussion).
> > > >
> > > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I 
> have ever
> > > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> > supporting
> > > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the
> > core
> > > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and
> > take
> > > deep look.
> > >
> > > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI 
> interfaces,
> > > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> > >
> > > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
> > > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may 
> satisfy
> > > their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as 
> GSM/PSTN
> > > interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection 
> while not
> > > care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
> > > formats.
> > > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are 
> located
> > > in France.
> > > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> > provider(CDN-
> > > Y).
> > > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> > of
> > > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may
> > > conduct some adaptation.
> > > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, 
> absolutely
> > > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; 
> while
> > > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > > >
> > > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. 
> Remember
> > > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would
> > > select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may 
> say it
> > is
> > > not a core functionality.
> > >
> > > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a 
> particular CDN
> > > may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable
> > content
> > > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many 
> optimizations
> > > that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the
> > internal
> > > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> > >
> > > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
> > > core function required to enable content delivery between 
> interconnected
> > > CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify
> > solutions
> > > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I
> > do
> > > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload 
> as it
> > > will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable
> > > solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they 
> needs
> > > solutions within.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
> > > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the 
> media
> > > types as required by the market.
> > > >
> > > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. 
> Otherwise
> > > the interconnection may not be operated.
> > > >
> > > > Br,
> > > > Zhipeng
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >
> > > > Zhipeng,
> > > >
> > > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Ben and Philip,
> > > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben,
> > > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of
> > > CDN.
> > > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> > correct
> > > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media
> > > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure 
> whether
> > > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> > CDN.
> > > >>
> > > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually 
> is ", I
> > > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may
> > > claim it support different medias.
> > > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM
> > > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from
> > GSM
> > > voice to G.711.
> > > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > > systems, right.
> > > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is 
> similar to
> > > this case above.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> > networks
> > > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery
> > the
> > > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content 
> Provider and
> > > the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been
> > > negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what
> > > representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the 
> User/Client
> > > or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > > >
> > > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see 
> the way
> > "
> > > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > > support multiple media types".
> > > >
> > > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core 
> function
> > > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> > that
> > > delivery).
> > > >
> > > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> > interconnection
> > > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
> > > interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in
> > its
> > > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> > Let's
> > > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting 
> usable
> > > specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on 
> the DRM
> > > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may 
> know all
> > > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
> > > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> > constraint)
> > > should be protected also.
> > > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > > >>
> > > >> Philip,
> > > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> > "Requirements"
> > > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator 
> since it
> > > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system 
> that may
> > > support different service systems.
> > > >>
> > > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that
> > to
> > > implement this is rather simple .
> > > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> > referred
> > > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> Zhipeng
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > > >>
> > > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the 
> Requirements
> > > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > > >>
> > > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be 
> able to
> > > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the 
> dCDN &
> > to
> > > signal about this.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order 
> requirement,
> > > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I
> > > don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted
> > to
> > > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > > "future" scenarios as well?
> > > >>
> > > >> Scott,
> > > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if 
> content
> > > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> > with
> > > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than 
> metadata
> > > associated with a particular piece of content. In the discussion 
> so far,
> > I
> > > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of scope(?)
> > > >>
> > > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether 
> trust
> > is
> > > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and
> > > uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the
> > dCDN.
> > > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one 
> possibility
> > > is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is 
> transitive.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> phil
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Philip Eardley
> > > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > > >>
> > > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> > above.
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> > > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
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> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>
> > > >> Colleagues,
> > > >>
> > > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. 
> Content
> > > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and 
> transforming
> > > it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a
> > CDN
> > > which typically delivers the content that is requested without 
> explicit
> > > knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the
> > CDN
> > > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) 
> of the
> > > selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying
> > > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > > delivered.
> > > >>
> > > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> > allow
> > > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of 
> the CDN
> > > (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content 
> selection
> > > prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected
> > > content).
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben
> > > >>
> > > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two 
> content
> > > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> > copy.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to 
> specific
> > > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> > taken
> > > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and
> > > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic 
> requirement
> > > for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN
> > > interconnection.
> > > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this 
> thread.
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >>> Zhipeng
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> > yet
> > > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device 
> is used
> > > in
> > > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs 
> to be
> > > >>> clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the scenario
> > > where
> > > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content from
> > > CSP-A
> > > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is 
> allowed
> > > to
> > > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other 
> users
> > in
> > > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content unless
> > they
> > > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions
> > > >>> Need to clarify if we're talking about the restrictions on the
> > > >>> delivery of specific content or the restrictions on the 
> ability of a
> > > CDN
> > > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case 
> where
> > a
> > > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed 
> path" if
> > > >>> such content is HD while allowing the content distribution via an
> > > >>> un-managed path if such content is SD (same could apply to
> > encryption
> > > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> > have
> > > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> > while
> > > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, 
> but not
> > > DASH)
> > > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> > high
> > > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I don't
> > > >>> think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> > > think
> > > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > > contract
> > > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive 
> trust
> > > >>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above)
> > > >>> c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of
> > > right
> > > >>> to download predicated on (b) above)
> > > >>> d. The relationship between the User and CSP (the contract
> > authorizing
> > > >>> the user access to the content)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c 
> relationship. The
> > > user
> > > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of the
> > > >>> security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> > > >>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> > initiated
> > > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> > appended
> > > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended 
> hashes.
> > > The
> > > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> > transparency
> > > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly defined
> > when
> > > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> > choice
> > > of
> > > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Scott
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> CDNi mailing list
> > > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CDNi mailing list
> > > CDNi@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>


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    Seems there are potentially two classes of use cases:<br>
    <br>
    1) Premium Content - CSP specifies available formats, encrypts,
    establishes relationship with client, agrees upon the available
    formats, and provides the client with a URL of their authorized
    delivery partner (uCDN) with permission to delegate delivery
    (assuming no content modification).&nbsp; The uCDN needs to qualify the
    dCDN via CDNi; however, the dCDN will merely be a transparent
    transfer point.&nbsp; The URL provided by the CSP needs to be modified
    somehow to point to the dCDN delivery node as opposed to the uCDN
    delivery node.&nbsp;&nbsp; The selected format (by the client) may NOT be
    viable for delivery over the dCDN; therefore, the uCDN should not
    delegate the delivery.&nbsp; That is the point of CDNi.<br>
    <br>
    NOTE: I still think there needs to be some basic elements covered by
    CDNi that addresses client &lt;-&gt; CDN authentication methods.&nbsp;
    CDN's use different authentication methods that ALLOW the client to
    even talk to the delivery nodes.&nbsp; <br>
    <br>
    2) Public Content - CSP provides content in a specified format,
    unencrypted, doesn't specify the potential alternative formats, but
    provides the client with a URL of their preferred delivery partner
    (uCDN) with implicit permission to delegate delivery.&nbsp; No assumption
    or assertion is made about content modification.&nbsp; From the uCDN's
    perspective, they are simply looking for the dCDN's ability to
    delivery the content as presented by the CSP.&nbsp; The dCDN may indicate
    that it can deliver the content in which case the uCDN delegates the
    delivery.&nbsp; At this point, the dCDN is at liberty to transcode /
    transrate the content to optimize their transport resources.&nbsp; What
    knowledge does the dCDN have that the client can actually receive
    the modified content?<br>
    <br>
    The only way I can see (2) being resolved is if the dCDN had
    knowledge (metadata) about the capabilities / limitations of the
    client or a bounded set of viable adaptations of the content itself.<br>
    <br>
    Scott<br>
    <br>
    On 10/13/11 12:01 AM, Kevin J Ma wrote:
    <blockquote
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      <p><font size="2">Zhipeng,<br>
          <br>
          &nbsp; If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as
          you describe<br>
          &nbsp; below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?&nbsp; What
          would be the<br>
          &nbsp; benefit if they already have custom servers and security?<br>
          <br>
          &nbsp; Premium content providers that I am familiar with
          pregenerate content<br>
          &nbsp; encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests,
          and do<br>
          &nbsp; not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee
          quality.&nbsp; To do<br>
          &nbsp; that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.&nbsp;
          Content is<br>
          &nbsp; processed in a secure facility and never released
          unencrypted to the<br>
          &nbsp; CDN.&nbsp; The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.<br>
          <br>
          thanx.<br>
          <br>
          --&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<br>
          <br>
          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; From: ZhouZhipeng [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM<br>
          &gt; To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
          &gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Kevin,<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; As we ever discussed in previous email that the content
          format in fact is<br>
          &gt; decided by the CP.<br>
          &gt; Only under the permission, the HD video may be
          transformed to the mobile<br>
          &gt; video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
          service, then it<br>
          &gt; may require the CDN to support multiple video formats.
          The multi-screen<br>
          &gt; service means the content source is from the same CP
          while the target<br>
          &gt; devices/clients include different groups. All content
          businesses are under<br>
          &gt; the permission of the content owner.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; For the content protection, I like talk a little more in
          this email for<br>
          &gt; reference:<br>
          &gt; Given there are two areas: London and Paris.<br>
          &gt; And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM.
          Generally each DRM<br>
          &gt; implementation is independent.<br>
          &gt; If the content is delivered from London to Paris,
          absolutely the whole<br>
          &gt; process should be granted by the CP.<br>
          &gt; For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on
          the terminal and<br>
          &gt; the interface between the SP/Client.<br>
          &gt; You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP
          is secure and we<br>
          &gt; do not need to worry that secure server would be the
          hacker.<br>
          &gt; Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to
          another server(<br>
          &gt; these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may
          handle and encrypt<br>
          &gt; the content), the content is safe. Whether
          decrypt/re-encrypt or just<br>
          &gt; deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are
          secure.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Also, we may see such security issue for content
          distribution is a general<br>
          &gt; scenario that is not related to whether taking content
          adaptation.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; From: Kevin J Ma [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM<br>
          &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
          &gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; One practical concern to consider with the use case of
          downloading one<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content
          providers generally<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; are very concerned with quality control and are
          unlikely to trust dCDNs<br>
          &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; to modify the content, and most likely, the content
          will be encrypted?<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; thanx.<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; --&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<br>
          &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
          On Behalf Of<br>
          &gt; &gt; ZhouZhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM<br>
          &gt; &gt; To: Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
          &gt; &gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Ben,<br>
          &gt; &gt; I respect your personal standpoint while seems you
          are only repeating<br>
          &gt; your<br>
          &gt; &gt; personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.<br>
          &gt; &gt; In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10
          streams to the<br>
          &gt; dCDN.<br>
          &gt; &gt; But in our reality, we should consider whether it is
          a proper solution<br>
          &gt; &gt; that will be used by the market.<br>
          &gt; &gt; If the standard may not support the market
          requirements, it is just the<br>
          &gt; &gt; problem for its deployment.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully
          thought about how it will<br>
          &gt; &gt; bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very
          simple in fact and I<br>
          &gt; do<br>
          &gt; &gt; not know whether you have any special concern that
          will make you feel it<br>
          &gt; &gt; would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.<br>
          &gt; &gt; Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like
          respond via reflector<br>
          &gt; &gt; or to you individually.<br>
          &gt; &gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
          &gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM<br>
          &gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Ben,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; The UE may select the content format on the CP
          web. After that the<br>
          &gt; user<br>
          &gt; &gt; only desires to get his selected content.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; But how the content is transferred to the
          client is not worried by the<br>
          &gt; &gt; user.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; The CP may create a special format as required
          by the user and ask the<br>
          &gt; &gt; CDN to deliver to user.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN
          and the dCDN may then<br>
          &gt; &gt; transform to the format as the user select.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN
          providers offer many<br>
          &gt; &gt; additional services on top of the "core" service of
          content delivery.<br>
          &gt; &gt; However, our objective (based on my interpretation
          of the CDNI charter)<br>
          &gt; is<br>
          &gt; &gt; to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs
          to deliver content<br>
          &gt; from<br>
          &gt; &gt; a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable
          within a short time<br>
          &gt; &gt; frame (18-24 months).<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Content transformation/adaptation is not an
          essential requirement in<br>
          &gt; order<br>
          &gt; &gt; to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from
          CSPs to End Users via<br>
          &gt; &gt; multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN
          supports content<br>
          &gt; &gt; adaptation).<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; In my opinion we have enough work to do already
          without trying to expand<br>
          &gt; &gt; the scope of our work to include additional
          requirements that do not<br>
          &gt; help<br>
          &gt; &gt; us address our core objectives as laid out in the
          CDNI charter.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; In this case, it is nothing related to how the
          user select formats on<br>
          &gt; CP<br>
          &gt; &gt; website.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; So, it is the CP and user to decide the content
          format not the<br>
          &gt; CDN(your<br>
          &gt; &gt; assert is not correct and seems you take that assert
          as your base for<br>
          &gt; the<br>
          &gt; &gt; discussion).<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; As for "the core CDN functionality offered by
          CDNs today", I have ever<br>
          &gt; &gt; raised an email before that your company's webpage
          has claimed<br>
          &gt; supporting<br>
          &gt; &gt; media transformation and multi-screen service.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Perhaps, I like asking you list some features
          that you feel are the<br>
          &gt; core<br>
          &gt; &gt; functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus
          we may compare and<br>
          &gt; take<br>
          &gt; &gt; deep look.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; I think the core functionality maps pretty well to
          the CDNI interfaces,<br>
          &gt; &gt; namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log
          production and<br>
          &gt; &gt; control plus content acquisition and content
          delivery.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; I guess many people have the
          experience/knowledge of content related<br>
          &gt; &gt; service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN
          providers may satisfy<br>
          &gt; &gt; their requirement while not care the internal
          process. Just as GSM/PSTN<br>
          &gt; &gt; interconnection, the user only care successful
          interconnection while not<br>
          &gt; &gt; care how the voice is transformed in process.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Besides, I like raise a case:<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that
          may support 10 media<br>
          &gt; &gt; formats.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; One candidate is your company, another is
          CDN-X. The users are located<br>
          &gt; &gt; in France.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; So both your company and CDN-X should connect a
          France CDN<br>
          &gt; provider(CDN-<br>
          &gt; &gt; Y).<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; If your company's solution is to send 10
          streams of different format<br>
          &gt; of<br>
          &gt; &gt; one content to CDN-Y;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to
          CDN-Y while CDN-Y may<br>
          &gt; &gt; conduct some adaptation.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Comparing these two solutions, for your company
          and CDN-X, absolutely<br>
          &gt; &gt; the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should
          receive/forward 10 streams ; while<br>
          &gt; &gt; in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but
          need to take<br>
          &gt; &gt; transformation to output 10 streams.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Which solution is more competitive. it is
          Solution 1, right. Remember<br>
          &gt; &gt; the price from BBC is same to both your company and
          CDN-X or BBC would<br>
          &gt; &gt; select one CDN provider with the lower price.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; If a CDN provider may not get the contract from
          CP, how it may say it<br>
          &gt; is<br>
          &gt; &gt; not a core functionality.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; What you are describing is a possible optimization
          that a particular CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; may wish to implement not a core functionality
          required to enable<br>
          &gt; content<br>
          &gt; &gt; delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of
          many optimizations<br>
          &gt; &gt; that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
          service but the<br>
          &gt; internal<br>
          &gt; &gt; workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of
          our charter.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; So to repeat my position for a final time: Content
          adaptation is not a<br>
          &gt; &gt; core function required to enable content delivery
          between interconnected<br>
          &gt; &gt; CDNs and therefore given the workload we already
          have to specify<br>
          &gt; solutions<br>
          &gt; &gt; that do address the core functionality required to
          interconnect CDNs I<br>
          &gt; do<br>
          &gt; &gt; not think we should be trying to add more work into
          that workload as it<br>
          &gt; &gt; will only distract us from achieving our goal of
          producing deployable<br>
          &gt; &gt; solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
          operators they needs<br>
          &gt; &gt; solutions within.<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; Ben<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; So, if we all realize that currently the media
          type is rich, the CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; providers should survive in the existing ecosystem
          and support the media<br>
          &gt; &gt; types as required by the market.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when
          concerning the<br>
          &gt; &gt; interconnection, the transformation should at once
          be solved. Otherwise<br>
          &gt; &gt; the interconnection may not be operated.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Br,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben and Philip,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to respond your concern in this one
          email:<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I feel what we are now discussing is what
          is the "core" function of<br>
          &gt; &gt; CDN.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As you say, CDN is used to deliver content.
          That is absolutely<br>
          &gt; correct<br>
          &gt; &gt; that the delivery capability is the core requirement
          for CDN system.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While CDN is used to provide the content
          delivery service.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What means service. It should include
          "time" "location" and "media<br>
          &gt; &gt; type", etc. These features are all the core feature
          for a service.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If we only concern "delivering one data
          block", I am not sure whether<br>
          &gt; &gt; the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint"
          are the core of<br>
          &gt; CDN.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For "without explicit knowledge of what
          that content actually is ", I<br>
          &gt; &gt; am not sure whether the wording is accurate since
          generally a CDN may<br>
          &gt; &gt; claim it support different medias.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; By this opportunity, I like to share a use
          case: a call from a GSM<br>
          &gt; &gt; phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should
          be transformed from<br>
          &gt; GSM<br>
          &gt; &gt; voice to G.711.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For the user, he does not need to know what
          type of data has been<br>
          &gt; &gt; transferred, but the operator has done some work to
          interconnect two<br>
          &gt; &gt; systems, right.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to know whether you may accept that
          my use case is similar to<br>
          &gt; &gt; this case above.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; I don't think your use case is similar to the
          analogy of mobile<br>
          &gt; networks<br>
          &gt; &gt; being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case
          of content delivery<br>
          &gt; the<br>
          &gt; &gt; negotiation is done between the User/Client and the
          Content Provider and<br>
          &gt; &gt; the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery
          that has been<br>
          &gt; &gt; negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision
          making of what<br>
          &gt; &gt; representations the Content Provider decides to
          offer to the User/Client<br>
          &gt; &gt; or in what representations the User/Client decides
          to request.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As for you said selecting media by the
          "portal", you may see the way<br>
          &gt; "<br>
          &gt; &gt; uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not
          good than "uCDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes
          some adaptation to<br>
          &gt; &gt; support multiple media types".<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Now what you're talking about is an
          optimisation, not a core function<br>
          &gt; &gt; required to actually deliver the content (and
          report, bill, etc. for<br>
          &gt; that<br>
          &gt; &gt; delivery).<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; My position is that we should focus on how to
          enable the<br>
          &gt; interconnection<br>
          &gt; &gt; of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today
          (which is also my<br>
          &gt; &gt; interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working
          group as expressed in<br>
          &gt; its<br>
          &gt; &gt; charter) because doing so is a significant piece of
          work in itself.<br>
          &gt; Let's<br>
          &gt; &gt; not start trying to add in additional functionality
          beyond what the<br>
          &gt; &gt; majority of CDNs support today as that will just
          delay us getting usable<br>
          &gt; &gt; specifications into the market in a timely fashion
          IMO.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt; Ben<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; A good question is "security" since I have
          done six years on the DRM<br>
          &gt; &gt; and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If the content is needed to be protected,
          generally you may know all<br>
          &gt; &gt; the systems should be granted by the content owner.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Here I also like to clarify that not only
          the media itself but the<br>
          &gt; &gt; information related to service itself (such as the
          geographic<br>
          &gt; constraint)<br>
          &gt; &gt; should be protected also.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; So, trust is not a problem for the media.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is
          an issue for<br>
          &gt; "Requirements"<br>
          &gt; &gt; but I do not know why it is not for Use case.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to clarify to U that it is important
          for you operator since it<br>
          &gt; &gt; may save investment if the system may support
          different services.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For us vendor, we are happy operator may
          install a system for the<br>
          &gt; &gt; mobile service and another system for the FBB
          service.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But the reality is all operators ask us to
          provide a system that may<br>
          &gt; &gt; support different service systems.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have
          explained somewhere that<br>
          &gt; to<br>
          &gt; &gt; implement this is rather simple .<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; At least the Use case and Requirement are
          informational to be<br>
          &gt; referred<br>
          &gt; &gt; in future work. So I do really feel you may accept
          it.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Of course I like to respond your more
          concern and comments.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> [<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; ZhouZhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben, Zhipeng, all,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that Content Adaptation is more an
          issue for the Requirements<br>
          &gt; &gt; doc than for the Use cases draft.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The key question is whether we want the
          CDNI interfaces to be able to<br>
          &gt; &gt; cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is
          done in the dCDN &amp;<br>
          &gt; to<br>
          &gt; &gt; signal about this.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that coping with this scenario is a
          second order requirement,<br>
          &gt; &gt; ie we should not worry about it in the initial
          standards-track work. I<br>
          &gt; &gt; don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases
          doc is restricted<br>
          &gt; to<br>
          &gt; &gt; "initial" scenarios, or whether it's
          all-encompassing, ie covering<br>
          &gt; &gt; "future" scenarios as well?<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Scott,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Reading some of your examples, they seem to
          be valid even if content<br>
          &gt; &gt; adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling
          to distribute HD?<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN
          can use HLS encapsulation?<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But these sorts of examples seem to be
          static policy things (to do<br>
          &gt; with<br>
          &gt; &gt; the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp;
          CSP), rather than metadata<br>
          &gt; &gt; associated with a particular piece of content. In
          the discussion so far,<br>
          &gt; I<br>
          &gt; &gt; think negotiation about static policy stuff is
          rather out of scope(?)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On security considerations, an interesting
          question is whether trust<br>
          &gt; is<br>
          &gt; &gt; transitive. Don't think it need be - just because
          CSP trusts uCDN, and<br>
          &gt; &gt; uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP
          automatically trusts the<br>
          &gt; dCDN.<br>
          &gt; &gt; However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex
          - so one possibility<br>
          &gt; &gt; is to say that we will only handle cases where the
          trust is transitive.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Best wishes<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; phil<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip Eardley<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Research and Technology Strategy<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; This email contains BT information, which
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          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
          On Behalf<br>
          &gt; Of<br>
          &gt; &gt; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Colleagues,<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from
          the Use Cases draft. Content<br>
          &gt; &gt; Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one
          format and transforming<br>
          &gt; &gt; it to another format or representation) is not a
          "core" function of a<br>
          &gt; CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; which typically delivers the content that is
          requested without explicit<br>
          &gt; &gt; knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Let's not forget that in building an end to
          end content service the<br>
          &gt; CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; is only one component and is the component tasked
          with executing the<br>
          &gt; &gt; delivery of a specific representation
          (version/copy/format etc.) of the<br>
          &gt; &gt; selected content not the component tasked with
          deciding (or applying<br>
          &gt; &gt; policy) on which version/copy/representation of
          content should be<br>
          &gt; &gt; delivered.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The decision as to which
          version/copy/representation to offer and<br>
          &gt; allow<br>
          &gt; &gt; to be delivered to a given device/user is
          implemented outside of the CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes
          their content selection<br>
          &gt; &gt; prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery
          of the selected<br>
          &gt; &gt; content).<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Following Scott's comments on section
          5.1.3, I feel Scott's<br>
          &gt; &gt; description on the use case of HD and SD is not
          exactly correct.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and
          SD, then we have two content<br>
          &gt; &gt; with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic
          unit is a content<br>
          &gt; copy.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Here the first bullet "a subset of
          encodings deliverable to specific<br>
          &gt; &gt; devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In last month, I have contacted the
          Authors of this document and<br>
          &gt; taken<br>
          &gt; &gt; some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I have shown BT with some information
          that I know in this case and<br>
          &gt; &gt; area to explain the content flexibility is currently
          a basic requirement<br>
          &gt; &gt; for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in
          the CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; interconnection.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in
          this group raising your<br>
          &gt; &gt; comments or questions on this case since I hope my
          use case may be<br>
          &gt; &gt; incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If you have any more question or
          comments, pls share in this thread.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; From: Scott Wainner [<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">mailto:swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02
          AM<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
          draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; This description falls under the
          category of Geographic Extension<br>
          &gt; yet<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the third paragraph states the case
          where a different device is used<br>
          &gt; &gt; in<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the same CDN coverage area.&nbsp; The intent
          of this use case needs to be<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; clarified.&nbsp; Perhaps the use case is
          trying to address the scenario<br>
          &gt; &gt; where<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement
          allowing access to content from<br>
          &gt; &gt; CSP-A<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
          region.&nbsp; The dCDN is allowed<br>
          &gt; &gt; to<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to
          User-A; however, not other users<br>
          &gt; in<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to
          retrieve the content unless<br>
          &gt; they<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding
          Restrictions<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Need to clarify if we're talking about
          the restrictions on the<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; delivery of specific content or the
          restrictions on the ability of a<br>
          &gt; &gt; CDN<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to deliver specific content.&nbsp; I
          certainly understand the case where<br>
          &gt; a<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of
          content to a "managed path" if<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; such content is HD while allowing the
          content distribution via an<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; un-managed path if such content is SD
          (same could apply to<br>
          &gt; encryption<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.).&nbsp; On
          the contrary, the dCDN may<br>
          &gt; have<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the
          distribution of HD content<br>
          &gt; while<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowing the distribution of SD
          content.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN
          can perform a subset of<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulations for a reference set of
          media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not<br>
          &gt; &gt; DASH)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o second bullet makes sense where the
          dCDN doesn't want to offer<br>
          &gt; high<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o third bullet make sense if the policy
          addresses QoE but I don't<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; think subscriber rights/authorizations
          apply.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Aside from the security considerations
          WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I<br>
          &gt; &gt; think<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and
          the uCDN (the principle<br>
          &gt; &gt; contract<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN
          and dCDN (the transitive trust<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; relationship that extends the contract
          defined in (a) above)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; c. The relationship between the User
          and dCDN (the recognition of<br>
          &gt; &gt; right<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to download predicated on (b) above)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; d. The relationship between the User
          and CSP (the contract<br>
          &gt; authorizing<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the user access to the content)<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b
          nor the b-c relationship. The<br>
          &gt; &gt; user<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only interested in the transparency
          and interoperability of the<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; security relationship between d-b or
          d-c to the point that the<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; authorization granted in d-a is viable
          when the delivery is<br>
          &gt; initiated<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via either d-b or d-c.&nbsp; As an example,
          the uCDN might use URL<br>
          &gt; appended<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN
          might use URL appended hashes.<br>
          &gt; &gt; The<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; user doesn't want to know about the
          distinct methods, but<br>
          &gt; transparency<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only afforded if the methods are
          interoperable clearly defined<br>
          &gt; when<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the delegation for content delivery is
          executed.&nbsp; Clearly, the<br>
          &gt; choice<br>
          &gt; &gt; of<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; authentication method is determined by
          the respective CDN's.<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Scott<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;
          _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
          _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt;<br>
          &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
          &gt; &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
          &gt; &gt; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          &gt; &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          CDNi mailing list<br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
        </font>
      </p>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Grant, 
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " content protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value. 
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng 

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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From grant.watson@bt.com  Thu Oct 13 05:40:51 2011
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To: <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>, <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:40:44 +0100
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be m=
odified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed dif=
ferent DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."

Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use d=
ifferent DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Inter=
connected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of w=
hat end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works r=
ight now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. =
IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM d=
elivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, t=
o reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI iss=
ue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.=
uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " c=
ontent protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should =
consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be mo=
dified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed diff=
erent DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue=
 for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV ma=
y connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same so=
ft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication an=
d content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identi=
fier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected con=
tent copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content w=
ith another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be a=
ble to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the=
 CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may c=
reate/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM=
 specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I me=
an only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even a=
ctively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN o=
r by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that =
to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in anothe=
r geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely =
scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transpare=
ntly, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices =
/ screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objec=
ts requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by t=
ransparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue f=
or CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect =
CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely d=
eployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created=
 by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kev=
in J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation=
.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to reque=
st.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is=
 transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread=
.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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To: "grant.watson@bt.com" <grant.watson@bt.com>, "zhouzhipeng@huawei.com" <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, "kevin.ma@azukisystems.com" <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>, "ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk" <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 15:35:04 +0000
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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(Not speaking as working group co-chair)

I would agree with Grant's comments below.

I believe that CDNI can usefully focus on centralized content adaptation fo=
r now, eg encoding, fragmenting, and encryption. Two items that make sense =
to push to the edge (and therefore be a consideration for CDNI interfaces) =
are session-based encryption and watermarking.

There is a technical paper "Unified Content Packaging Architectures for Man=
aged Video Content Delivery" for an upcoming SCTE conference that does a go=
od job of discussing and analyzing the centralized vs edge topic. Unfortuna=
tely, the conference is the same week as IETF 82, and SCTE may charge to ge=
t a copy of the paper and presentation. If that does not deter you, see <ht=
tp://expo.scte.org/content/sessions/workshopsdescriptions.cfm#CDN>.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of gra=
nt.watson@bt.com
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:41 AM
To: zhouzhipeng@huawei.com; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co=
.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be m=
odified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed dif=
ferent DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."

Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use d=
ifferent DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Inter=
connected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of w=
hat end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works r=
ight now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. =
IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM d=
elivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, t=
o reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI iss=
ue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.=
uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " c=
ontent protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should =
consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be mo=
dified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed diff=
erent DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue=
 for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV ma=
y connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same so=
ft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication an=
d content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identi=
fier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected con=
tent copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content w=
ith another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be a=
ble to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the=
 CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may c=
reate/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM=
 specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I me=
an only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even a=
ctively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN o=
r by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that =
to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in anothe=
r geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely =
scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transpare=
ntly, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices =
/ screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objec=
ts requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by t=
ransparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue f=
or CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect =
CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely d=
eployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created=
 by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kev=
in J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation=
.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to reque=
st.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is=
 transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
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> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread=
.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
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From saurabh.sdo@gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 10:31:10 2011
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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 23:01:05 +0530
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From: Saurabh Chattopadhyay <saurabh.sdo@gmail.com>
To: grant.watson@bt.com
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, zhouzhipeng@huawei.com
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Colleagues,

While I=92m also of the opinion that the particular case is best left out o=
f
scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined in a more
appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.

Following is a relevant part from =91draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement=92 =
=96

=93NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction projects

   within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs

   operate separate CDNs for separate services.  For example, there may

   be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV delivery

   and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.  As NSPs integrate

   their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these

   CDNs.  Again, NSPs face the problem of lack of open interfaces for

   CDN interconnection.

=94

Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standardize open
interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the CDNs adop=
t
the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets naturally extended
to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a CDN for Video
Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Service Profile of
=91Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals=92. And current discussion on Content
Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting CDNs of
different Service Profiles.

To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned to realize th=
e
extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service Portfolio
transformations and whether to be considered part of the current scope or
not.

IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core Content
Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently the work
group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile interconnection
to standardize till required extent.

Regards,
Saurabh



On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, <grant.watson@bt.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> "May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be
> modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed
> different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."
>
> Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use
> different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN,
> Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowled=
ge
> of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that
> works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.
>
> Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now=
.
> IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM
> delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps=
,
> to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI
> issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.
>
> g-
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
>  To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com;
> ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Grant,
> Nice to see your comment.
> May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is "
> content protection".
> As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
> In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM shoul=
d
> consider both the protection and the service implementation.
>
> May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be
> modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed
> different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
> It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the iss=
ue
> for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV m=
ay
> connect the FT's terminals.
>
> Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same
> soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplicatio=
n
> and content's verification(integrity protection).
> Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique
> identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
> Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected
> content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
> Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content
> with another identifier.
>
> While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be
> able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if =
the
> CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.
>
> So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may
> create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.
>
> Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA D=
RM
> specification to check the reason.
> For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
> Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I
> mean only general functionality of CDN.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
> To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even
> actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CD=
N
> or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting th=
at
> to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in anot=
her
> geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely
> scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped
> transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to differe=
nt
> devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just
> different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.
>
> I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by
> transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.
>
> IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue
> for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconne=
ct
> CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely
> deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are crea=
ted
> by CDNI.
>
> g-
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Kevin J Ma
> Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
>  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
>  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?
>
>  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
>  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
>  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
>  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
>  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
>  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Kevin,
> >
> > As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> > is decided by the CP.
> > Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> > mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> > service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> > formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> > same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> > content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
> >
> > For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> > for
> > reference:
> > Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> > And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> > implementation is independent.
> > If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> > process should be granted by the CP.
> > For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> > and the interface between the SP/Client.
> > You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> > we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> > Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> > these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> > encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> > or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secur=
e.
> >
> > Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> > general scenario that is not related to whether taking content
> adaptation.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> >   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading on=
e
> >   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers general=
ly
> >   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCD=
Ns
> >   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted=
?
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Ben,
> > > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > > repeating
> > your
> > > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> > dCDN.
> > > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > > solution that will be used by the market.
> > > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > > the problem for its deployment.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > > fact and I
> > do
> > > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > > reflector or to you individually.
> > > Thanks.
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Ben,
> > > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> > user
> > > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > > the
> > > user.
> > > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > > the
> > > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > > then
> > > transform to the format as the user select.
> > >
> > > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > > charter)
> > is
> > > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > > content
> > from
> > > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > > time frame (18-24 months).
> > >
> > > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> > order
> > > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > > content adaptation).
> > >
> > > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > > do not
> > help
> > > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> > >
> > > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > > on
> > CP
> > > website.
> > > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> > CDN(your
> > > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > > for
> > the
> > > discussion).
> > > >
> > > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > > ever
> > > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> > supporting
> > > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > > the
> > core
> > > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > > and
> > take
> > > deep look.
> > >
> > > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > > interfaces,
> > > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> > >
> > > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > > related
> > > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in proces=
s.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > > media
> > > formats.
> > > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > > located
> > > in France.
> > > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> > provider(CDN-
> > > Y).
> > > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > > format
> > of
> > > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > > may
> > > conduct some adaptation.
> > > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > > absolutely
> > > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > > while
> > > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > > >
> > > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > > Remember
> > > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > > it
> > is
> > > not a core functionality.
> > >
> > > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > > enable
> > content
> > > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > > service but the
> > internal
> > > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> > >
> > > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > > to specify
> > solutions
> > > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > > I
> > do
> > > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > > operators they needs solutions within.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > > CDN
> > > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > > media types as required by the market.
> > > >
> > > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > > >
> > > > Br,
> > > > Zhipeng
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >
> > > > Zhipeng,
> > > >
> > > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Ben and Philip,
> > > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben,
> > > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > > >> of
> > > CDN.
> > > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> > correct
> > > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > > >> "media
> > > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > > >> whether
> > > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> > CDN.
> > > >>
> > > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > > >> ", I
> > > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > > may claim it support different medias.
> > > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > > >> GSM
> > > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > > from
> > GSM
> > > voice to G.711.
> > > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > > systems, right.
> > > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > > >> to
> > > this case above.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> > networks
> > > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > > delivery
> > the
> > > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to
> request.
> > > >
> > > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > > >> way
> > "
> > > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > > support multiple media types".
> > > >
> > > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > > function
> > > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> > that
> > > delivery).
> > > >
> > > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> > interconnection
> > > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > > expressed in
> > its
> > > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> > Let's
> > > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > > >
> > > > Ben
> > > >
> > > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > > >> DRM
> > > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > > >> all
> > > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > > >> the
> > > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> > constraint)
> > > should be protected also.
> > > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > > >>
> > > >> Philip,
> > > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> > "Requirements"
> > > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > > >> since it
> > > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > > >> may
> > > support different service systems.
> > > >>
> > > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > > >> that
> > to
> > > implement this is rather simple .
> > > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> > referred
> > > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >> Zhipeng
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > > >>
> > > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > > >> Requirements
> > > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > > >>
> > > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > > >> able to
> > > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > > dCDN &
> > to
> > > signal about this.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > > >> requirement,
> > > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > > restricted
> > to
> > > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > > "future" scenarios as well?
> > > >>
> > > >> Scott,
> > > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > > >> content
> > > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation=
?
> > > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > > >> do
> > with
> > > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > > discussion so far,
> > I
> > > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > > scope(?)
> > > >>
> > > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > > >> trust
> > is
> > > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > > the
> > dCDN.
> > > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust =
is
> transitive.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> phil
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Philip Eardley
> > > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > > >>
> > > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> > above.
> > > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > > record your
> > emails.
> > > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > > >> in England no: 1800000
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > > >> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>
> > > >> Colleagues,
> > > >>
> > > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > > >> Content
> > > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > > function of a
> > CDN
> > > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > > >>
> > > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > > >> the
> > CDN
> > > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > > applying
> > > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > > delivered.
> > > >>
> > > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> > allow
> > > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > > selected content).
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben
> > > >>
> > > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > > >>> content
> > > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> > copy.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > > >>> specific
> > > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> > taken
> > > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > > >>> and
> > > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > > CDN interconnection.
> > > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this
> thread.
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >>> Zhipeng
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > > >>> Extension
> > yet
> > > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > > >>> used
> > > in
> > > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > > >>> scenario
> > > where
> > > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > > >>> from
> > > CSP-A
> > > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > > >>> allowed
> > > to
> > > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > > >>> users
> > in
> > > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > > >>> unless
> > they
> > > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > > CDN
> > > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > > >>> where
> > a
> > > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > > >>> could apply to
> > encryption
> > > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> > have
> > > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> > while
> > > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > > >>> not
> > > DASH)
> > > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> > high
> > > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > > >>> I
> > > think
> > > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > > contract
> > > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > > >>> recognition of
> > > right
> > > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> > authorizing
> > > >>> the user access to the content)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > > >>> The
> > > user
> > > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> > initiated
> > > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> > appended
> > > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashe=
s.
> > > The
> > > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> > transparency
> > > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > > >>> defined
> > when
> > > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> > choice
> > > of
> > > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Scott
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> CDNi mailing list
> > > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CDNi mailing list
> > > CDNi@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>

--bcaec5014dd764812d04af3181ac
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">Colleagues,</font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">While I=92m also of the opinion that the particular case is be=
st left out of scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined=
 in a more appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.</f=
ont></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">Following is a relevant part from =91draft-ietf-cdni-problem-s=
tatement=92 =96</font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; =
tab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 41=
2.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><font face=
=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3">=93</font><span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-family: &#39;Times New Roman&#3=
9;">NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction projects</s=
pan></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs=
</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>operate separate CDNs for separate services.<span style=3D"mso-space=
run: yes">=A0 </span>For example, there may</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV deliver=
y</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.<span style=3D"mso-=
spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>As NSPs integrate</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these</=
span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>CDNs.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </span>Again, NSPs face t=
he problem of lack of open interfaces for</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; t=
ab-stops: 45.8pt 91.6pt 137.4pt 183.2pt 229.0pt 274.8pt 320.6pt 366.4pt 412=
.2pt 458.0pt 503.8pt 549.6pt 595.4pt 641.2pt 687.0pt 732.8pt"><span style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: &#39;Courier New&#39;; mso-fareast-font-f=
amily: &#39;Times New Roman&#39;"><span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0=A0 =
</span>CDN interconnection.</span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">=94</font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standard=
ize open interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the =
CDNs adopt the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets natural=
ly extended to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a C=
DN for=A0Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Servic=
e Profile of =91Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals=92. And current discussi=
on on Content Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting C=
DNs of different Service Profiles.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned =
to realize the extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service P=
ortfolio transformations and whether to be considered part of the current s=
cope or not.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core=
 Content Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently t=
he work group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile intercon=
nection to standardize till required extent.</font></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calibri=
" size=3D"3">Regards,</font></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calib=
ri" size=3D"3">Saurabh</font></div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><font face=3D"Calib=
ri" size=3D"3"></font><br><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi,<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>&quot;May I ask a question, if the content has been e=
ncrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in =
two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.&=
quot;<br>
<br></div>Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differentl=
y or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the =
CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the know=
ledge of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO th=
at works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.<br>
<br>Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope n=
ow. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross D=
RM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhap=
s, to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI=
 issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.<br>
<br>g-<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: ZhouZhipeng [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>=
]<br></div>
<div class=3D"im">Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12<br></div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; <a href=3D"mailto:kevin.ma@azu=
kisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-j=
enkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@iet=
f.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Gra=
nt,<br>Nice to see your comment.<br>May I conclude that by now the core iss=
ue for the content adaptation is &quot; content protection&quot;.<br>As a D=
RM people for years, I fully understand this concern.<br>
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should =
consider both the protection and the service implementation.<br><br>May I a=
sk a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified =
in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different D=
RM system, how it will be for the CDNI.<br>
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue=
 for the protection transformation. For example, how your company&#39;s IPT=
V may connect the FT&#39;s terminals.<br><br>Even in the internet that the =
PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still ha=
s the problem of the content&#39;s duplication and content&#39;s verificati=
on(integrity protection).<br>
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identi=
fier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.<br>Hence i=
n OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content co=
py that may be verified successfully by the device.<br>
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content w=
ith another identifier.<br><br>While in CDN system, we all know for the loa=
d balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed=
. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that =
comply with the DRM solution.<br>
<br>So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that m=
ay create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.<br><=
br>Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA =
DRM specification to check the reason.<br>
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.<br>Also note t=
hat the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only gen=
eral functionality of CDN.<br>Thanks.<br>Zhipeng<br><br>-----Original Messa=
ge-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a> [mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>]<br>Sent: =
Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:kevin.ma@azukis=
ystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; ZhouZhipeng; <a href=3D"mailto:b=
en@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: RE: [CDN=
i] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>I&#39;d support that=
 perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks as=
surances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downs=
tream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a d=
CDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and =
with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In gen=
eral the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my expe=
rience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. i=
s also transparent to the CDN, they&#39;re just different objects requested=
 by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.<br>
<br>I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access =
by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.<br><br=
>IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue =
for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect=
 CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely =
deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are create=
d by CDNI.<br>
<br>g-<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bo=
unces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bo=
unces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma<br>Sent:=
 13 October 2011 05:02<br>
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">=
cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-ca=
ses-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>=A0If the CP has tight integration with b=
oth CDN providers as you describe<br>
=A0below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all? =A0What would be th=
e<br>=A0benefit if they already have custom servers and security?<br><br>=
=A0Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content<br=
>=A0encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do<br>
=A0not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality. =A0To do<b=
r>=A0that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely. =A0Content is<br=
>=A0processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the<br=
>=A0CDN. =A0The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.<br>
<br>thanx.<br><br>-- =A0Kevin J. Ma<br><br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<=
br>&gt; From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com"=
>zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<br>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:2=
5 PM<br>
&gt; To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@i=
etf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ie=
tf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Kevin,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; As we ever =
discussed in previous email that the content format in fact<br>
&gt; is decided by the CP.<br>&gt; Only under the permission, the HD video =
may be transformed to the<br>&gt; mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both=
 IPTV and mobile video<br>&gt; service, then it may require the CDN to supp=
ort multiple video<br>
&gt; formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the=
<br>&gt; same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups.=
 All<br>&gt; content businesses are under the permission of the content own=
er.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this =
email<br>&gt; for<br>&gt; reference:<br>&gt; Given there are two areas: Lon=
don and Paris.<br>&gt; And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. G=
enerally each DRM<br>
&gt; implementation is independent.<br>&gt; If the content is delivered fro=
m London to Paris, absolutely the whole<br>&gt; process should be granted b=
y the CP.<br>&gt; For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on t=
he terminal<br>
&gt; and the interface between the SP/Client.<br>&gt; You may see that the =
servers that are granted by the CP is secure and<br>&gt; we do not need to =
worry that secure server would be the hacker.<br>&gt; Hence, if the content=
 is delivered from one server to another server(<br>
&gt; these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and<br>=
&gt; encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt<=
br>&gt; or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are s=
ecure.<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution =
is a<br>&gt; general scenario that is not related to whether taking content=
 adaptation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Thanks.<br>&gt; Zhipeng<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:<a=
 href=3D"mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>]<b=
r>&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM<br>&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng; B=
en Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; Subject=
: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Z=
hipeng,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; =A0 One practical concern to consider with the use =
case of downloading one<br>
&gt; =A0 (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers gene=
rally<br>&gt; =A0 are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely =
to trust dCDNs<br>&gt; =A0 to modify the content, and most likely, the cont=
ent will be encrypted?<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; thanx.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; -- =A0Kevin J. Ma<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; =
-----Original Message-----<br>&gt; &gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounce=
s@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounce=
s@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf<br>
&gt; &gt; Of ZhouZhipeng<br>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:5=
1 PM<br>&gt; &gt; To: Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:=
cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Actio=
n: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Ben,<br>&gt; &gt; I respect your personal standpoint=
 while seems you are only<br>&gt; &gt; repeating<br>&gt; your<br>&gt; &gt; =
personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.<br>&gt; &gt; In my case, I=
 have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the<br>
&gt; dCDN.<br>&gt; &gt; But in our reality, we should consider whether it i=
s a proper<br>&gt; &gt; solution that will be used by the market.<br>&gt; &=
gt; If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just<br>
&gt; &gt; the problem for its deployment.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Meanwhi=
le in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it<br>&gt; &gt; w=
ill bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in<br>&gt; &gt=
; fact and I<br>
&gt; do<br>&gt; &gt; not know whether you have any special concern that wil=
l make you<br>&gt; &gt; feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 m=
onths.<br>&gt; &gt; Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like resp=
ond via<br>
&gt; &gt; reflector or to you individually.<br>&gt; &gt; Thanks.<br>&gt; &g=
t; Zhipeng<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; &gt=
; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk=
">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM<br>&gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhi=
peng<br>&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardl=
ey@bt.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; &=
gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; On 12 Oct 2011, a=
t 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Ben,<br>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that=
 the<br>
&gt; user<br>&gt; &gt; only desires to get his selected content.<br>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>&gt; &gt; user.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; The CP may creat=
e a special format as required by the user and ask<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>&gt; &gt; CDN to deliver to user.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; W=
hile CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; then<br>&gt; &gt; transform to the format as the user select.<br>&gt; =
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many=
<br>&gt; &gt; additional services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of=
 content delivery.<br>&gt; &gt; However, our objective (based on my interpr=
etation of the CDNI<br>
&gt; &gt; charter)<br>&gt; is<br>&gt; &gt; to focus on what is necessary to=
 interconnect CDNs to deliver<br>&gt; &gt; content<br>&gt; from<br>&gt; &gt=
; a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short<br>
&gt; &gt; time frame (18-24 months).<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; Content tran=
sformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in<br>&gt; order<br>&=
gt; &gt; to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users=
<br>
&gt; &gt; via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports<b=
r>&gt; &gt; content adaptation).<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; In my opinion we=
 have enough work to do already without trying to<br>&gt; &gt; expand the s=
cope of our work to include additional requirements that<br>
&gt; &gt; do not<br>&gt; help<br>&gt; &gt; us address our core objectives a=
s laid out in the CDNI charter.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; In this case=
, it is nothing related to how the user select formats<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; on=
<br>
&gt; CP<br>&gt; &gt; website.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; So, it is the CP and user t=
o decide the content format not the<br>&gt; CDN(your<br>&gt; &gt; assert is=
 not correct and seems you take that assert as your base<br>&gt; &gt; for<b=
r>
&gt; the<br>&gt; &gt; discussion).<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; As f=
or &quot;the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have<br>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; ever<br>&gt; &gt; raised an email before that your company&#=
39;s webpage has claimed<br>
&gt; supporting<br>&gt; &gt; media transformation and multi-screen service.=
<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you f=
eel are<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>&gt; core<br>&gt; &gt; functionalities by =
existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare<br>
&gt; &gt; and<br>&gt; take<br>&gt; &gt; deep look.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt=
; I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI<br>&gt; &gt; =
interfaces,<br>&gt; &gt; namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, l=
og production and<br>
&gt; &gt; control plus content acquisition and content delivery.<br>&gt; &g=
t;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of c=
ontent<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; related<br>&gt; &gt; service. The user and CP only=
 care whether the CDN providers may<br>
&gt; &gt; satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Ju=
st<br>&gt; &gt; as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful<=
br>&gt; &gt; interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in=
 process.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Besides, I like raise a case:<br>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt; Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10<br>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; media<br>&gt; &gt; formats.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; One candidate is =
your company, another is CDN-X. The users are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; located<br>&gt; &gt; in France.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; So both yo=
ur company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN<br>&gt; provider(CDN-<br>&=
gt; &gt; Y).<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; If your company&#39;s solution is to send 10=
 streams of different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; format<br>&gt; of<br>&gt; &gt; one content to CDN-Y;<br>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; While CDN-X&#39;s solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CD=
N-Y<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; may<br>&gt; &gt; conduct some adaptation.<br>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; absolutely<br>&gt; &gt; the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 strea=
ms ;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; while<br>&gt; &gt; in solution-2, it should only rec=
eive 1 stream but need to take<br>
&gt; &gt; transformation to output 10 streams.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &g=
t; &gt; Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.<br>&gt=
; &gt; &gt; Remember<br>&gt; &gt; the price from BBC is same to both your c=
ompany and CDN-X or BBC<br>
&gt; &gt; would select one CDN provider with the lower price.<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say<br>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; it<br>&gt; is<br>&gt; &gt; not a core functionality.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; What you are describing is a possible optimization t=
hat a particular<br>&gt; &gt; CDN may wish to implement not a core function=
ality required to<br>&gt; &gt; enable<br>&gt; content<br>&gt; &gt; delivery=
 between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many<br>
&gt; &gt; optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their<b=
r>&gt; &gt; service but the<br>&gt; internal<br>&gt; &gt; workings of an in=
dividual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not<br>
&gt; &gt; a core function required to enable content delivery between<br>&g=
t; &gt; interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already hav=
e<br>&gt; &gt; to specify<br>&gt; solutions<br>&gt; &gt; that do address th=
e core functionality required to interconnect CDNs<br>
&gt; &gt; I<br>&gt; do<br>&gt; &gt; not think we should be trying to add mo=
re work into that workload as<br>&gt; &gt; it will only distract us from ac=
hieving our goal of producing<br>&gt; &gt; deployable solutions within the =
timeframe we are being told by<br>
&gt; &gt; operators they needs solutions within.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; =
Ben<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; So, if we all realize that currently the=
 media type is rich, the<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; CDN<br>&gt; &gt; providers shoul=
d survive in the existing ecosystem and support the<br>
&gt; &gt; media types as required by the market.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; =
&gt; &gt; Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the<br>&gt=
; &gt; interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.<br>
&gt; &gt; Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<br>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Br,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&g=
t; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Ori=
ginal Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-=
jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesd=
ay, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00=
.txt<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben and Philip,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to respond =
your concern in this one email:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;=
 Ben,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I feel what we are now discussing is what is th=
e &quot;core&quot; function<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>&gt; &gt; CDN.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As you say, C=
DN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely<br>&gt; correct<br>&gt; &=
gt; that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.<br=
>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While CDN is used to provide the content delivery servic=
e.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What means service. It should include &quot;time&q=
uot; &quot;location&quot; and<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;media<br>&gt; &gt=
; type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If we only concern &quot;delivering one data block&quot;=
, I am not sure<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; whether<br>&gt; &gt; the issues such =
as &quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of<br=
>
&gt; CDN.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For &quot;without exp=
licit knowledge of what that content actually is<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quo=
t;, I<br>&gt; &gt; am not sure whether the wording is accurate since genera=
lly a CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; may claim it support different medias.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; By t=
his opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a<br>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt; GSM<br>&gt; &gt; phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should b=
e transformed<br>
&gt; &gt; from<br>&gt; GSM<br>&gt; &gt; voice to G.711.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t; For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been<br>&gt=
; &gt; transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two=
<br>
&gt; &gt; systems, right.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to know whether you =
may accept that my use case is similar<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; to<br>&gt; &gt=
; this case above.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; I don&#39;t think yo=
ur use case is similar to the analogy of mobile<br>
&gt; networks<br>&gt; &gt; being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the ca=
se of content<br>&gt; &gt; delivery<br>&gt; the<br>&gt; &gt; negotiation is=
 done between the User/Client and the Content Provider<br>&gt; &gt; and the=
 CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has<br>
&gt; &gt; been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making o=
f<br>&gt; &gt; what representations the Content Provider decides to offer t=
o the<br>&gt; &gt; User/Client or in what representations the User/Client d=
ecides to request.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As for you said selecting media by the=
 &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; way<br>&gt; &quo=
t;<br>&gt; &gt; uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not g=
ood than &quot;uCDN<br>
&gt; &gt; delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation =
to<br>&gt; &gt; support multiple media types&quot;.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&g=
t; &gt; &gt; Now what you&#39;re talking about is an optimisation, not a co=
re<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; function<br>&gt; &gt; required to actually deliver the conte=
nt (and report, bill, etc. for<br>&gt; that<br>&gt; &gt; delivery).<br>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; My position is that we should focus on how to =
enable the<br>
&gt; interconnection<br>&gt; &gt; of the core CDN functionality offered by =
CDNs today (which is also<br>&gt; &gt; my interpretation of the scope of th=
e CDNI working group as<br>&gt; &gt; expressed in<br>&gt; its<br>&gt; &gt; =
charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.<br>
&gt; Let&#39;s<br>&gt; &gt; not start trying to add in additional functiona=
lity beyond what the<br>&gt; &gt; majority of CDNs support today as that wi=
ll just delay us getting<br>&gt; &gt; usable specifications into the market=
 in a timely fashion IMO.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt; Ben<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
; A good question is &quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on th=
e<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; DRM<br>&gt; &gt; and like to promote the DRM all ar=
ound the world:)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If the content is needed to be protected, generally you =
may know<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; all<br>&gt; &gt; the systems should be grant=
ed by the content owner.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Here I also like to clarify =
that not only the media itself but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>&gt; &gt; information related to service itself (=
such as the geographic<br>&gt; constraint)<br>&gt; &gt; should be protected=
 also.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; So, trust is not a problem for the media.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Than=
k you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for<br>&gt; &quot;Requirem=
ents&quot;<br>&gt; &gt; but I do not know why it is not for Use case.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to clarify to U that it is important for you oper=
ator<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; since it<br>&gt; &gt; may save investment if the=
 system may support different services.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For us vendor=
, we are happy operator may install a system for the<br>
&gt; &gt; mobile service and another system for the FBB service.<br>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt; But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system tha=
t<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; may<br>&gt; &gt; support different service systems.=
<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remembe=
r I have explained somewhere<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; that<br>&gt; to<br>&gt; =
&gt; implement this is rather simple .<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; At least the U=
se case and Requirement are informational to be<br>
&gt; referred<br>&gt; &gt; in future work. So I do really feel you may acce=
pt it.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Of course I like to respond your more concern =
and comments.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Zhipeng<b=
r>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;=
 &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D=
"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D=
"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM<br>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.u=
k</a>; ZhouZhipeng<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.or=
g">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-case=
s-00.txt<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben, Zhipeng, all,<br>=
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that Content Adaptation is=
 more an issue for the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Requirements<br>&gt; &gt; doc than for the Use cases dra=
ft.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The key question is whether=
 we want the CDNI interfaces to be<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; able to<br>&gt; &g=
t; cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the<br>
&gt; &gt; dCDN &amp;<br>&gt; to<br>&gt; &gt; signal about this.<br>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that coping with this scenario is =
a second order<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; requirement,<br>&gt; &gt; ie we should=
 not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.<br>
&gt; &gt; I don&#39;t know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is=
<br>&gt; &gt; restricted<br>&gt; to<br>&gt; &gt; &quot;initial&quot; scenar=
ios, or whether it&#39;s all-encompassing, ie covering<br>&gt; &gt; &quot;f=
uture&quot; scenarios as well?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Scott,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Readi=
ng some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&g=
t; content<br>&gt; &gt; adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<br>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt; - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS enc=
apsulation?<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But these sorts of examples seem to be st=
atic policy things (to<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; do<br>&gt; with<br>&gt; &gt; t=
he capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<br>
&gt; &gt; metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the<br=
>&gt; &gt; discussion so far,<br>&gt; I<br>&gt; &gt; think negotiation abou=
t static policy stuff is rather out of<br>&gt; &gt; scope(?)<br>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On security considerations, an interesting question is w=
hether<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; trust<br>&gt; is<br>&gt; &gt; transitive. Don&=
#39;t think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,<br>&gt; &gt; and uCD=
N trusts dCDN doesn&#39;t mean that the CSP automatically trusts<br>
&gt; &gt; the<br>&gt; dCDN.<br>&gt; &gt; However, i suspect this can get ar=
bitrarily complex - so one<br>&gt; &gt; possibility is to say that we will =
only handle cases where the trust is transitive.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Best wishes<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; phil<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip Eardley<br>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;&gt; Research and Technology Strategy<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt; This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or=
<br>
&gt; &gt; confidential. It&#39;s meant only for the individual(s) or entity=
 named<br>&gt; above.<br>&gt; &gt; If you&#39;re not the intended recipient=
, note that disclosing, copying,<br>&gt; &gt; distributing or using this in=
formation is prohibited. If you&#39;ve<br>
&gt; &gt; received this email in error, please let me know immediately on t=
he<br>&gt; &gt; email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system=
, and may<br>&gt; &gt; record your<br>&gt; emails.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Br=
itish Telecommunications plc<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Reg=
istered<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; in England no: 1800000<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a>] On<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Behalf<br>&gt; Of<br>&gt; &gt; B=
en Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: Zh=
ouZhipeng<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@i=
etf.org</a><br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-iet=
f-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Colleagues,<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Case=
s draft.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Content<br>&gt; &gt; Adaptation (i.e. taking=
 in a content item in one format and<br>
&gt; &gt; transforming it to another format or representation) is not a &qu=
ot;core&quot;<br>&gt; &gt; function of a<br>&gt; CDN<br>&gt; &gt; which typ=
ically delivers the content that is requested without<br>&gt; &gt; explicit=
 knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Let&#39;s not forget that in build=
ing an end to end content service<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>&gt; CDN<br>=
&gt; &gt; is only one component and is the component tasked with executing =
the<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) =
of<br>&gt; &gt; the selected content not the component tasked with deciding=
 (or<br>&gt; &gt; applying<br>&gt; &gt; policy) on which version/copy/repre=
sentation of content should be<br>
&gt; &gt; delivered.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The decisi=
on as to which version/copy/representation to offer and<br>&gt; allow<br>&g=
t; &gt; to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of th=
e<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes th=
eir content<br>&gt; &gt; selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in th=
e delivery of the<br>&gt; &gt; selected content).<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 8 Oct=
 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;=
&gt;&gt; Following Scott&#39;s comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott&#39;=
s<br>
&gt; &gt; description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then w=
e have two<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content<br>&gt; &gt; with different id=
entifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content<br>
&gt; copy.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Here the fir=
st bullet &quot;a subset of encodings deliverable to<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&=
gt; specific<br>&gt; &gt; devices,&quot; has listed the case of content ada=
ptation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this =
document and<br>&gt; taken<br>&gt; &gt; some email exchanges with Grant and=
 Philip (BT).<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I have shown BT with some informati=
on that I know in this case<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; and<br>&gt; &gt; area to explain the content flexibi=
lity is currently a basic<br>&gt; &gt; requirement for CDN service and rela=
ted negotiation is needed in the<br>&gt; &gt; CDN interconnection.<br>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising=
 your<br>
&gt; &gt; comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may b=
e<br>&gt; &gt; incorporated in the use case draft.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt=
;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls =
share in this thread.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>&gt; &g=
t; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;=
 From: Scott Wainner [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:swainner@cisco.com">swainner=
@cisco.com</a>]<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</=
a><br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdn=
i-use-cases-00.txt<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Sect=
ion 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; This description falls under the category of Geograp=
hic<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Extension<br>&gt; yet<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&g=
t; the third paragraph states the case where a different device is<br>&gt; =
&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; used<br>
&gt; &gt; in<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the same CDN coverage area. =A0The i=
ntent of this use case needs<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to be clarified. =A0=
Perhaps the use case is trying to address the<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; sce=
nario<br>
&gt; &gt; where<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreemen=
t allowing access to content<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; from<br>&gt; &gt; CS=
P-A<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different regio=
n. =A0The dCDN is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowed<br>&gt; &gt; to<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; di=
stribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other<br>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt; users<br>&gt; in<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the region of the dCD=
N are allowed to retrieve the content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; unless<br>&gt; they<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; too ha=
ve such an agreement.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; S=
ection 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; we&#39;re talking about the restrictions on the delivery of sp=
ecific<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content or the restrictions on the ability of a<br>&=
gt; &gt; CDN<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to deliver specific content. =A0I ce=
rtainly understand the case<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; where<br>&gt; a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a &=
quot;managed<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; path&quot; if such content is HD whi=
le allowing the content<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribution via an un-ma=
naged path if such content is SD (same<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; could apply to<br>&gt; encryption<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.). =A0On the contrary, the dCDN may<=
br>&gt; have<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the=
 distribution of HD content<br>
&gt; while<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowing the distribution of SD conten=
t.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o first bullet makes=
 sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encaps=
ulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not<br>&gt; &gt; DASH)<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o s=
econd bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn&#39;t want to offer<br>&gt; h=
igh<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>&gt; &gt; &=
gt;&gt;&gt; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; don&#39;t think subscriber rights/authorizations app=
ly.<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 10 Security=
 Considerations<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Aside f=
rom the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I<br>&gt; &gt; think<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we ca=
n describe this in four contexts:<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &g=
t;&gt;&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle<=
br>
&gt; &gt; contract<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; arrangement for distribution)<=
br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (th=
e transitive<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; trust relationship that extends the =
contract defined in (a)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN=
 (the<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; recognition of<br>&gt; &gt; right<br>&gt; &=
gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship b=
etween<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the User and CSP (the contract<br>&gt; authorizing<b=
r>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the user access to the content)<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor=
 the b-c relationship.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The<br>&gt; &gt; user<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is o=
nly interested in the transparency and interoperability of<br>&gt; &gt; &gt=
;&gt;&gt; the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that<br=
>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the =
delivery is<br>&gt; initiated<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via either d-b or d=
-c. =A0As an example, the uCDN might use URL<br>&gt; appended<br>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended ha=
shes.<br>
&gt; &gt; The<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; user doesn&#39;t want to know about=
 the distinct methods, but<br>&gt; transparency<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; i=
s only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt; defined<br>
&gt; when<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the delegation for content delivery is =
executed. =A0Clearly, the<br>&gt; choice<br>&gt; &gt; of<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&=
gt;&gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN&#39;s.<br=
>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Scott<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt=
;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; ___________________________________________=
____<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; =
<a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdn=
i" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; ______________________________________=
_________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailt=
o:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href=3D"https:/=
/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; __________________________________=
_____________<br>&gt; &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto=
:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l=
istinfo/cdni</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a href=3D"https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailm=
an/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--bcaec5014dd764812d04af3181ac--

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Grant,
I am not sure whether you mean that DRM is not a problem for the CDNI scenario as I suggested since initiation. 
Philip and you have the concern of DRM, therefore several emails have been given clarifying this issue.
And as I explain the content adaptation does not bring new protection requirement to the CDNi. i.e. that works right now.

>>"IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue."  
I guess you have not caught the core meaning of my explanation. 
It means in a single CDN, since the content duplication is needed while DRM protection requires that the entity that may duplicate the content should be secure to handle that.

So totally my conclusion is DRM is mature enough for the scenarios we discussed and has no special to the content adaptation.
Pls kindly check my conclusion. 
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:41 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."

Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " content protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Thu Oct 13 19:37:01 2011
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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:36:46 +0000
From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Woundy,
Nice for your sharing the information below.
I am also happy to see there is a session on related issue. 

As for CDNI, may I suggest we may have a use case first since it does not bring problem for other issues.

Thanks.
Zhipeng
-----Original Message-----
From: Woundy, Richard [mailto:Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:35 PM
To: grant.watson@bt.com; ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

(Not speaking as working group co-chair)

I would agree with Grant's comments below.

I believe that CDNI can usefully focus on centralized content adaptation for now, eg encoding, fragmenting, and encryption. Two items that make sense to push to the edge (and therefore be a consideration for CDNI interfaces) are session-based encryption and watermarking.

There is a technical paper "Unified Content Packaging Architectures for Managed Video Content Delivery" for an upcoming SCTE conference that does a good job of discussing and analyzing the centralized vs edge topic. Unfortunately, the conference is the same week as IETF 82, and SCTE may charge to get a copy of the paper and presentation. If that does not deter you, see <http://expo.scte.org/content/sessions/workshopsdescriptions.cfm#CDN>.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of grant.watson@bt.com
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:41 AM
To: zhouzhipeng@huawei.com; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."

Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " content protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

  If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
  below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
  benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

  Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
  encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
  not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
  that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
  processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
  CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
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> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
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From zhouzhipeng@huawei.com  Thu Oct 13 20:10:40 2011
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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 03:10:07 +0000
From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Saurabh,

On the core functionality as always.
Right now across the world, the convergence of mobile/internet/fixed system is the key requirement for the industry.
Generally CDN is not restricted to a special service. A CDN may support either web-TV delivery or managed IPTV service delivery.

The multi-screen service, means the CDN may deliver content to TV, PAD, PHONE, PC... any screen.
Because the PC may display HD while PHONE may only display small video, the content adaptation may be used before the CDN deliver content to each terminal.

This thread is raised from the concern: whether the protection will be a problem for the content adaptation.
If the people may know that content adaption has no impact for existing DRM,  our discussion has achieved good effect.

Thanks.
Zhipeng


From: Saurabh Chattopadhyay [mailto:saurabh.sdo@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 1:31 AM
To: grant.watson@bt.com
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,
While I'm also of the opinion that the particular case is best left out of scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined in a more appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.
Following is a relevant part from 'draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement' -
"NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction projects
   within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs
   operate separate CDNs for separate services.  For example, there may
   be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV delivery
   and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.  As NSPs integrate
   their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these
   CDNs.  Again, NSPs face the problem of lack of open interfaces for
   CDN interconnection.
"
Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standardize open interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the CDNs adopt the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets naturally extended to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a CDN for Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Service Profile of 'Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals'. And current discussion on Content Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting CDNs of different Service Profiles.
To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned to realize the extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service Portfolio transformations and whether to be considered part of the current scope or not.
IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core Content Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently the work group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile interconnection to standardize till required extent.
Regards,
Saurabh



On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, <grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com>> wrote:
Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."
Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com<mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " content protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com> [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com>]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

 If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
 below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
 benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

 Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
 encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
 not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
 that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
 processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
 CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com<mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com<mailto:swainner@cisco.com>]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Saurabh,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On the core functionality as always.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Right now across the world, the convergence of mobile/internet/fixed system is the key requirement for the industry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Generally CDN is not restricted to a special service. A CDN may support either
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">web-TV delivery</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"> or
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">managed IPTV service delivery</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The multi-screen service, means the CDN may deliver content to TV, PAD, PHONE, PC&#8230; any screen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Because the PC may display HD while PHONE may only display small video, the content adaptation may be used before the CDN deliver content to each
 terminal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This thread is raised from the concern: whether the protection will be a problem for the content adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If the people may know that content adaption has no impact for existing DRM, &nbsp;our discussion has achieved good effect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Saurabh Chattopadhyay [mailto:saurabh.sdo@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 14, 2011 1:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> grant.watson@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Colleagues,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">While I&#8217;m also of the opinion that the particular case is best left out of scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined in a more
 appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Following is a relevant part from &#8216;draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement&#8217; &#8211;</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8220;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction
 projects</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; operate separate CDNs for separate services.&nbsp; For example, there may</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV delivery</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.&nbsp; As NSPs integrate</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; CDNs.&nbsp; Again, NSPs face the problem of lack of open interfaces for</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; CDN interconnection.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8221;</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standardize open interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the CDNs adopt
 the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets naturally extended to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a CDN for&nbsp;Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Service Profile of &#8216;Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals&#8217;.
 And current discussion on Content Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting CDNs of different Service Profiles.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned to realize the extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service Portfolio
 transformations and whether to be considered part of the current scope or not.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core Content Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently the work
 group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile interconnection to standardize till required extent.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="margin-bottom:10.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Saurabh</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:10.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, &lt;<a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
&quot;May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge
 of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.<br>
<br>
Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for
 example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.<br>
<br>
g-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:<a href="mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; <a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">
kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; <a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Grant,<br>
Nice to see your comment.<br>
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is &quot; content protection&quot;.<br>
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.<br>
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.<br>
<br>
May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.<br>
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.<br>
<br>
Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).<br>
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.<br>
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.<br>
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.<br>
<br>
While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.<br>
<br>
So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.<br>
<br>
Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.<br>
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.<br>
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.<br>
Thanks.<br>
Zhipeng<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; ZhouZhipeng;
<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely
 out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different
 devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.<br>
<br>
I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.<br>
<br>
IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and
 very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.<br>
<br>
g-<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma<br>
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02<br>
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Zhipeng,<br>
<br>
&nbsp;If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe<br>
&nbsp;below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all? &nbsp;What would be the<br>
&nbsp;benefit if they already have custom servers and security?<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content<br>
&nbsp;encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do<br>
&nbsp;not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality. &nbsp;To do<br>
&nbsp;that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely. &nbsp;Content is<br>
&nbsp;processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the<br>
&nbsp;CDN. &nbsp;The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.<br>
<br>
thanx.<br>
<br>
-- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:<a href="mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM<br>
&gt; To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact<br>
&gt; is decided by the CP.<br>
&gt; Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the<br>
&gt; mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video<br>
&gt; service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video<br>
&gt; formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the<br>
&gt; same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All<br>
&gt; content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email<br>
&gt; for<br>
&gt; reference:<br>
&gt; Given there are two areas: London and Paris.<br>
&gt; And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM<br>
&gt; implementation is independent.<br>
&gt; If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole<br>
&gt; process should be granted by the CP.<br>
&gt; For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal<br>
&gt; and the interface between the SP/Client.<br>
&gt; You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and<br>
&gt; we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.<br>
&gt; Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(<br>
&gt; these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and<br>
&gt; encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt<br>
&gt; or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a<br>
&gt; general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:<a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM<br>
&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one<br>
&gt; &nbsp; (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally<br>
&gt; &nbsp; are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs<br>
&gt; &nbsp; to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; thanx.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf<br>
&gt; &gt; Of ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only<br>
&gt; &gt; repeating<br>
&gt; your<br>
&gt; &gt; personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.<br>
&gt; &gt; In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the<br>
&gt; dCDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper<br>
&gt; &gt; solution that will be used by the market.<br>
&gt; &gt; If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just<br>
&gt; &gt; the problem for its deployment.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it<br>
&gt; &gt; will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in<br>
&gt; &gt; fact and I<br>
&gt; do<br>
&gt; &gt; not know whether you have any special concern that will make you<br>
&gt; &gt; feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via<br>
&gt; &gt; reflector or to you individually.<br>
&gt; &gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">
cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the<br>
&gt; user<br>
&gt; &gt; only desires to get his selected content.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; user.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN to deliver to user.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; then<br>
&gt; &gt; transform to the format as the user select.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many<br>
&gt; &gt; additional services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery.<br>
&gt; &gt; However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI<br>
&gt; &gt; charter)<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver<br>
&gt; &gt; content<br>
&gt; from<br>
&gt; &gt; a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short<br>
&gt; &gt; time frame (18-24 months).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in<br>
&gt; order<br>
&gt; &gt; to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users<br>
&gt; &gt; via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports<br>
&gt; &gt; content adaptation).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to<br>
&gt; &gt; expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that<br>
&gt; &gt; do not<br>
&gt; help<br>
&gt; &gt; us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; on<br>
&gt; CP<br>
&gt; &gt; website.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the<br>
&gt; CDN(your<br>
&gt; &gt; assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base<br>
&gt; &gt; for<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; discussion).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; As for &quot;the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; ever<br>
&gt; &gt; raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed<br>
&gt; supporting<br>
&gt; &gt; media transformation and multi-screen service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; core<br>
&gt; &gt; functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare<br>
&gt; &gt; and<br>
&gt; take<br>
&gt; &gt; deep look.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI<br>
&gt; &gt; interfaces,<br>
&gt; &gt; namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and<br>
&gt; &gt; control plus content acquisition and content delivery.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; related<br>
&gt; &gt; service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may<br>
&gt; &gt; satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just<br>
&gt; &gt; as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Besides, I like raise a case:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; media<br>
&gt; &gt; formats.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; located<br>
&gt; &gt; in France.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN<br>
&gt; provider(CDN-<br>
&gt; &gt; Y).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; format<br>
&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; one content to CDN-Y;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; may<br>
&gt; &gt; conduct some adaptation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; absolutely<br>
&gt; &gt; the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; while<br>
&gt; &gt; in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take<br>
&gt; &gt; transformation to output 10 streams.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Remember<br>
&gt; &gt; the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC<br>
&gt; &gt; would select one CDN provider with the lower price.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; it<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; not a core functionality.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to<br>
&gt; &gt; enable<br>
&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many<br>
&gt; &gt; optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their<br>
&gt; &gt; service but the<br>
&gt; internal<br>
&gt; &gt; workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not<br>
&gt; &gt; a core function required to enable content delivery between<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have<br>
&gt; &gt; to specify<br>
&gt; solutions<br>
&gt; &gt; that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs<br>
&gt; &gt; I<br>
&gt; do<br>
&gt; &gt; not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as<br>
&gt; &gt; it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing<br>
&gt; &gt; deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by<br>
&gt; &gt; operators they needs solutions within.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the<br>
&gt; &gt; media types as required by the market.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.<br>
&gt; &gt; Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Br,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">
cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben and Philip,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to respond your concern in this one email:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I feel what we are now discussing is what is the &quot;core&quot; function<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely<br>
&gt; correct<br>
&gt; &gt; that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What means service. It should include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;media<br>
&gt; &gt; type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If we only concern &quot;delivering one data block&quot;, I am not sure<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; whether<br>
&gt; &gt; the issues such as &quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of<br>
&gt; CDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For &quot;without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;, I<br>
&gt; &gt; am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; may claim it support different medias.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; GSM<br>
&gt; &gt; phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed<br>
&gt; &gt; from<br>
&gt; GSM<br>
&gt; &gt; voice to G.711.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been<br>
&gt; &gt; transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two<br>
&gt; &gt; systems, right.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; this case above.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile<br>
&gt; networks<br>
&gt; &gt; being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider<br>
&gt; &gt; and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has<br>
&gt; &gt; been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of<br>
&gt; &gt; what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the<br>
&gt; &gt; User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As for you said selecting media by the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; way<br>
&gt; &quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN<br>
&gt; &gt; delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to<br>
&gt; &gt; support multiple media types&quot;.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; function<br>
&gt; &gt; required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for<br>
&gt; that<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; My position is that we should focus on how to enable the<br>
&gt; interconnection<br>
&gt; &gt; of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also<br>
&gt; &gt; my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as<br>
&gt; &gt; expressed in<br>
&gt; its<br>
&gt; &gt; charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.<br>
&gt; Let's<br>
&gt; &gt; not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the<br>
&gt; &gt; majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting<br>
&gt; &gt; usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; A good question is &quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; DRM<br>
&gt; &gt; and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; all<br>
&gt; &gt; the systems should be granted by the content owner.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; information related to service itself (such as the geographic<br>
&gt; constraint)<br>
&gt; &gt; should be protected also.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; So, trust is not a problem for the media.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for<br>
&gt; &quot;Requirements&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; but I do not know why it is not for Use case.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; since it<br>
&gt; &gt; may save investment if the system may support different services.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the<br>
&gt; &gt; mobile service and another system for the FBB service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; may<br>
&gt; &gt; support different service systems.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; that<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; implement this is rather simple .<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be<br>
&gt; referred<br>
&gt; &gt; in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: <a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben, Zhipeng, all,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Requirements<br>
&gt; &gt; doc than for the Use cases draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; able to<br>
&gt; &gt; cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the<br>
&gt; &gt; dCDN &amp;<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; signal about this.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that coping with this scenario is a second order<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; requirement,<br>
&gt; &gt; ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.<br>
&gt; &gt; I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is<br>
&gt; &gt; restricted<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;initial&quot; scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;future&quot; scenarios as well?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Scott,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; do<br>
&gt; with<br>
&gt; &gt; the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<br>
&gt; &gt; metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the<br>
&gt; &gt; discussion so far,<br>
&gt; I<br>
&gt; &gt; think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of<br>
&gt; &gt; scope(?)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On security considerations, an interesting question is whether<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; trust<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,<br>
&gt; &gt; and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts<br>
&gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; dCDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one<br>
&gt; &gt; possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Best wishes<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; phil<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip Eardley<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Research and Technology Strategy<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or<br>
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&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Behalf<br>
&gt; Of<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Content<br>
&gt; &gt; Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and<br>
&gt; &gt; transforming it to another format or representation) is not a &quot;core&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; function of a<br>
&gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; which typically delivers the content that is requested without<br>
&gt; &gt; explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of<br>
&gt; &gt; the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or<br>
&gt; &gt; applying<br>
&gt; &gt; policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be<br>
&gt; &gt; delivered.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and<br>
&gt; allow<br>
&gt; &gt; to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content<br>
&gt; &gt; selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the<br>
&gt; &gt; selected content).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's<br>
&gt; &gt; description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content<br>
&gt; copy.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Here the first bullet &quot;a subset of encodings deliverable to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; specific<br>
&gt; &gt; devices,&quot; has listed the case of content adaptation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and<br>
&gt; taken<br>
&gt; &gt; some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic<br>
&gt; &gt; requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN interconnection.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your<br>
&gt; &gt; comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be<br>
&gt; &gt; incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; From: Scott Wainner [mailto:<a href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; This description falls under the category of Geographic<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Extension<br>
&gt; yet<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different device is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; used<br>
&gt; &gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use case needs<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to address the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; scenario<br>
&gt; &gt; where<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; from<br>
&gt; &gt; CSP-A<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region. &nbsp;The dCDN is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowed<br>
&gt; &gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; users<br>
&gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; unless<br>
&gt; they<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content or the restrictions on the ability of a<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to deliver specific content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; where<br>
&gt; a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a &quot;managed<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; path&quot; if such content is HD while allowing the content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; could apply to<br>
&gt; encryption<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may<br>
&gt; have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content<br>
&gt; while<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not<br>
&gt; &gt; DASH)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer<br>
&gt; high<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I<br>
&gt; &gt; think<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle<br>
&gt; &gt; contract<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; recognition of<br>
&gt; &gt; right<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the User and CSP (the contract<br>
&gt; authorizing<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the user access to the content)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The<br>
&gt; &gt; user<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is<br>
&gt; initiated<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might use URL<br>
&gt; appended<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.<br>
&gt; &gt; The<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but<br>
&gt; transparency<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; defined<br>
&gt; when<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the<br>
&gt; choice<br>
&gt; &gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Scott<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
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From hexiaoyan@huawei.com  Fri Oct 14 02:36:00 2011
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Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:35:10 +0800
From: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
- I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of all
hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a specific
metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same metadata, I
think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.

-I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal solution for
that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your draft
could also be applicable for other interfaces? 

Best Regards
Xiaoyan(Susan) He

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface

Hi Susan,

  thanx for the comments, responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain and
> accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is accessed
> by
> a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data model
> works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within one
> Doman?

I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
hostname
needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was thinking of
hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does something
along
the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
lookup):

  domain = get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domain")
  if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
    return error
  metadata = db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
                                                 domain,
getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
  xml = generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
  return xml

> - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> Metadata within one Domain?

That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many.
Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can be
associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B, and
C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and also
have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)

> > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents to
> retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given Domain.
> - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an Agent
> explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents is
> an
> inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit its
> identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.

I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different values to
different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store that
information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies the
implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue proper
consideration.

> - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within one
> Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding Agent
> objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> located
> in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?

This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
different
entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to
represent
those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.

thanx!

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Thanks.
> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Kevin J Ma
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> 
>     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
> 
>   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> 
> thanx.
> 
> --  Kevin J. Ma
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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Hi,

Note that as per the _draft_ agenda =
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/82/agenda.html), the CDNI WG =
session is tentatively scheduled:
	THURSDAY, November 17, 2011
	15:20-17:20

This is still subject to potential change.

Cheers

Francois


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Fri Oct 14 07:25:44 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 10:25:38 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Susan,

  responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 5:35 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Kevin,
> Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
> - I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of all
> hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a
> specific
> metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
> creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same metadata, I
> think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.

>From a conceptual perspective, it could be argued that the domain
object is extraneous.  As an implementation detail, however, the
multi-table joins, imo, were simplified by having a central object
to define the domain, so I added one.  From an operator perspective,
having a way to group multiple hostnames also seems useful, even
though, in the degenerate case, you could just have one hostname per
domain.  If there is a concensus view that the domain is unnecessary,
it could be removed.

> -I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
> communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
> Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal solution
> for
> that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your draf=
t
> could also be applicable for other interfaces?

I agree that the other interfaces (control/logging) will require some
type of authentication and security.  The agent concept could certainly
be extended to other interfaces, and I agree that it would be good to
have the same solution for all interfaces

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
> To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Susan,
>=20
>   thanx for the comments, responses inline:
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> > >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain
> and
> > accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> > - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is
> accessed
> > by
> > a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data
> model
> > works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within
> one
> > Doman?
>=20
> I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
> hostname
> needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was thinking
> of
> hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does something
> along
> the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
> lookup):
>=20
>   domain =3D get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domain"=
)
>   if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
>     return error
>   metadata =3D db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
>                                                  domain,
> getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
>   xml =3D generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
>   return xml
>=20
> > - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> > one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> > Metadata within one Domain?
>=20
> That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many.
> Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can be
> associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B, an=
d
> C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and
> also
> have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)
>=20
> > > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
> to
> > retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given Domain.
> > - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an
> Agent
> > explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents
> is
> > an
> > inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit
> its
> > identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.
>=20
> I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different values
> to
> different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store that
> information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies the
> implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue
> proper
> consideration.
>=20
> > - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within one
> > Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding
> Agent
> > objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> > located
> > in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?
>=20
> This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
> different
> entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to
> represent
> those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.
>=20
> thanx!
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> > Thanks.
> > Best Regards
> > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > Kevin J Ma
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> >
> >     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
> >
> >   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
> >   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
> >   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From hexiaoyan@huawei.com  Mon Oct 17 00:15:13 2011
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Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:14:08 +0800
From: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Kevin,
I share the view that the concept of Domain is useful, my suggestion is
linking metadata to Hostname and keep the Domain,
i.e. something like the figure below. Benefit is metadata associated with
one custormer can be grouped even different
Hostnames belong the Domain has different metadata value.


  +----------+
 |        | 1
 | Agent   +---------------------------+
 |        |                |
 +----+-----+                  |
      | 1..*                |
      |                    |
      | 1                   | 1
  +----+-----+             +----+-----+
 |         |          |          |
 | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
 |         |          |          |
  +----+-----+             +-----+----+
      | 1                   |
      |                     |
      | 1..*                 |
  +----+-----+                 |
 |         |    1   0..*     |
 | Hostname +----------------------------+
 |         |
  +----------+

Thanks.

Best Regards
Xiaoyan(Susan) He
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:26 PM
To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface

Hi Susan,

  responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 5:35 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
> - I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of all
> hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a
> specific
> metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
> creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same metadata, I
> think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.

>From a conceptual perspective, it could be argued that the domain
object is extraneous.  As an implementation detail, however, the
multi-table joins, imo, were simplified by having a central object
to define the domain, so I added one.  From an operator perspective,
having a way to group multiple hostnames also seems useful, even
though, in the degenerate case, you could just have one hostname per
domain.  If there is a concensus view that the domain is unnecessary,
it could be removed.

> -I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
> communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
> Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal solution
> for
> that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your draft
> could also be applicable for other interfaces?

I agree that the other interfaces (control/logging) will require some
type of authentication and security.  The agent concept could certainly
be extended to other interfaces, and I agree that it would be good to
have the same solution for all interfaces

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
> To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi Susan,
> 
>   thanx for the comments, responses inline:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> > >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain
> and
> > accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> > - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is
> accessed
> > by
> > a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data
> model
> > works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within
> one
> > Doman?
> 
> I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
> hostname
> needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was thinking
> of
> hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does something
> along
> the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
> lookup):
> 
>   domain = get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domain")
>   if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
>     return error
>   metadata = db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
>                                                  domain,
> getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
>   xml = generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
>   return xml
> 
> > - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> > one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> > Metadata within one Domain?
> 
> That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many.
> Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can be
> associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B, and
> C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and
> also
> have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)
> 
> > > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
> to
> > retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given Domain.
> > - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an
> Agent
> > explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents
> is
> > an
> > inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit
> its
> > identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.
> 
> I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different values
> to
> different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store that
> information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies the
> implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue
> proper
> consideration.
> 
> > - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within one
> > Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding
> Agent
> > objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> > located
> > in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?
> 
> This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
> different
> entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to
> represent
> those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.
> 
> thanx!
> 
> --  Kevin J. Ma
> 
> > Thanks.
> > Best Regards
> > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > Kevin J Ma
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> >   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> >
> >     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
> >
> >   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
> >   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
> >   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 17 04:07:44 2011
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Subject: [CDNi] Preparing draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement for WG Last Call
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Colleagues,

At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.

As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.

Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I have =
highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that you =
think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the document =
is ready for a WG Last Call.

1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.

OLD:
   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
NEW:
   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].


2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.

OLD:
   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
   leverage.=20
NEW:
   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface individually
   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20


3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".

4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities for Content Acquisition (section =
5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) but there are not sections for the =
other CDNI interfaces (Control, Logging, Request Routing).

The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.

I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence in =
Section 5:

OLD:
   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
NEW:
   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing metadata=20=

   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).

5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.

OLD:
   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
NEW:
   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
      CDNs.

6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
   - RFC2119

After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am not =
convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those documents =
normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a context =
where they are for further information and the Problem Statement does =
not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.

Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.


Thanks
Ben


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 17 08:28:10 2011
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Subject: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Kevin,

I read draft-ma-cdni-metadata but I am struggling a little to understand =
how it fits into the overall framework of CDNI.

When I read the draft it appeared to me to be aimed more at a Content =
Provider or CDN Provider configuring the authoritative CDN rather that =
for Metadata exchange between CDNs because of its use of Agents, the =
fact it keeps all metadata opaque and because a lot of the protocol =
description is about how to create and modify metadata records which =
only seems to apply to the authoritative CDN.

Agents:
The draft states that "The Agent object contains basic information for =
authenticating entities which require access to Metadata." However it is =
not clear to me how the concept of the Agent object fits within the =
framework of CDNI as the details of the different Agents that may be =
able to access metadata for a Content Service will be specific the to =
CDN distributing that CDNI metadata. In other words I can't see why one =
would need to distribute Agent details between CDNs over CDNI because =
the Agents that are relevant for an uCDN are likely different to the =
Agents that a relevant to a dCDN.

Later on the draft states:
   The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
   to retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
   Domain.  This is intended to allow CDNs to separate upstream Metadata
   from downstream Metadata (e.g., a uCDN content acquisition URL may
   point to a CP origin, however the content acquisition URL that the
   dCDN retrieves from the uCDN may point at a surrogate in the uCDN).

This implies that the specification of Agents is really for imposing a =
specific implementation on CDNs in how they manage metadata received =
from a uCDN and how they expose that metadata to dCDNs. As the scope of =
CDNI does not cover the internal workings or operation of a particular =
CDN it would appear to me that imposing a particular internal mechanism =
for a single CDN to manage & distribute CDNI metadata is inappropriate =
for the CDNI WG.=20

Metadata:
I am a little confused about the desire to keep the actual specification =
of metadata opaque. In order for a CDN to do anything useful with the =
CDNI metadata it receives it needs to understand the syntax and =
semantics of the metadata it receives, however the draft intentionally =
keeps both the syntax and semantics for the metadata properties as well =
as any associated values opaque to any CDN that receives or distributes =
the associated metadata and says the associated "functionality SHOULD be =
agreed upon a priori by CDN operators, however, these negotiations are =
beyond the scope of CDNI."

Of course, the syntax and semantics of the CDNI metadata could be agreed =
out of band between the operators of the interconnected CDNs but doing =
that for all metadata properties that would be needed to meet the =
objectives of CDNI does not IMO provide any real advantage over what one =
could do today by configuring individual services in different CDNs and =
using CDNI request routing to redirect requests between those services =
in each CDN.

I can see that the meaning of the value for a specific metadata property =
might need to be opaque because the value may be applied differently by =
different CDNs (e.g. a more general "QoS" value that each CDN maps to an =
appropriate DSCP value depending on how the underlying network has been =
configured/deployed) but those are more likely to be exceptions rather =
than the general rule and in any case the property itself would still =
need to be specified & defined, so even with that in mind I'm struggling =
to see the value in keeping all metadata opaque.

Ben=

From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct 17 11:26:21 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:26:14 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Susan,

  ok, I think I understand now.  In writing the draft, I was not sure if=20
  this would be a typical use case.  Adding the one-to-many relationship
  between the hostname and metadata tables would cause duplicate entries
  in the metadata table (one per hostname)?  One alternative would be to
  use a many-to-many relationship instead, though verification of domain
  constraints on creation becomes more complex.  In general, if we think
  that this flexibility is required, I have no issue with making changes
  to the model, however, if it is unlikely to be used, I would favor the
  simpler approach.

  Is a one-to-many relationship between the hostname and metadata tables
  that much better than removing the hostname table completely (and just
  adding a hostname field to the domain, i.e., the degenerate case where
  each domain only has one hostname)?  That is essentially what it would
  be doing?
 =20
thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:14 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Kevin,
> I share the view that the concept of Domain is useful, my suggestion is
> linking metadata to Hostname and keep the Domain,
> i.e. something like the figure below. Benefit is metadata associated with
> one custormer can be grouped even different
> Hostnames belong the Domain has different metadata value.
>=20
>=20
>   +----------+
>  |        | 1
>  | Agent   +---------------------------+
>  |        |                |
>  +----+-----+                  |
>       | 1..*                |
>       |                    |
>       | 1                   | 1
>   +----+-----+             +----+-----+
>  |         |          |          |
>  | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
>  |         |          |          |
>   +----+-----+             +-----+----+
>       | 1                   |
>       |                     |
>       | 1..*                 |
>   +----+-----+                 |
>  |         |    1   0..*     |
>  | Hostname +----------------------------+
>  |         |
>   +----------+
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:26 PM
> To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Susan,
>=20
>   responses inline:
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 5:35 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
> > - I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of all
> > hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a
> > specific
> > metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
> > creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same metadata,
> I
> > think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.
>=20
> From a conceptual perspective, it could be argued that the domain
> object is extraneous.  As an implementation detail, however, the
> multi-table joins, imo, were simplified by having a central object
> to define the domain, so I added one.  From an operator perspective,
> having a way to group multiple hostnames also seems useful, even
> though, in the degenerate case, you could just have one hostname per
> domain.  If there is a concensus view that the domain is unnecessary,
> it could be removed.
>=20
> > -I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
> > communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
> > Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal solution
> > for
> > that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your
> draft
> > could also be applicable for other interfaces?
>=20
> I agree that the other interfaces (control/logging) will require some
> type of authentication and security.  The agent concept could certainly
> be extended to other interfaces, and I agree that it would be good to
> have the same solution for all interfaces
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> > Best Regards
> > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
> > To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Susan,
> >
> >   thanx for the comments, responses inline:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> > > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi Kevin,
> > > Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> > > >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domai=
n
> > and
> > > accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> > > - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is
> > accessed
> > > by
> > > a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data
> > model
> > > works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname withi=
n
> > one
> > > Doman?
> >
> > I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
> > hostname
> > needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was
> thinking
> > of
> > hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does somethin=
g
> > along
> > the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
> > lookup):
> >
> >   domain =3D get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domai=
n")
> >   if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
> >     return error
> >   metadata =3D db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"=
),
> >                                                  domain,
> > getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
> >   xml =3D generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
> >   return xml
> >
> > > - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> > > one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> > > Metadata within one Domain?
> >
> > That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many=
.
> > Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can
> be
> > associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B,
> and
> > C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and
> > also
> > have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)
> >
> > > > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agent=
s
> > to
> > > retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
> Domain.
> > > - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an
> > Agent
> > > explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agent=
s
> > is
> > > an
> > > inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmi=
t
> > its
> > > identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.
> >
> > I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different
> values
> > to
> > different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store tha=
t
> > information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies th=
e
> > implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue
> > proper
> > consideration.
> >
> > > - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within
> one
> > > Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding
> > Agent
> > > objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> > > located
> > > in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?
> >
> > This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
> > different
> > entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to
> > represent
> > those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.
> >
> > thanx!
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Best Regards
> > > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Kevin J Ma
> > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> > > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > >   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> > >
> > >     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
> > >
> > >   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representatio=
n
> > >   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issue=
s
> > >   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> > >
> > > thanx.
> > >
> > > --  Kevin J. Ma
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CDNi mailing list
> > > CDNi@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct 17 11:26:50 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:26:17 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Hi Ben,

  responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:28 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
>=20
> Kevin,
>=20
> I read draft-ma-cdni-metadata but I am struggling a little to understand
> how it fits into the overall framework of CDNI.
>=20
> When I read the draft it appeared to me to be aimed more at a Content
> Provider or CDN Provider configuring the authoritative CDN rather that fo=
r
> Metadata exchange between CDNs because of its use of Agents, the fact it
> keeps all metadata opaque and because a lot of the protocol description i=
s
> about how to create and modify metadata records which only seems to apply
> to the authoritative CDN.

I attempted to create an extensible representation for metadata and a
complete protocol for manipulating metadata, though, not all users of
the interface will need all aspects.  Do you feel that the protocol is
deficient for non-authoritative CDN use, or that authoritative CDNs do
not need the metadata interface?

> Agents:
> The draft states that "The Agent object contains basic information for
> authenticating entities which require access to Metadata." However it is
> not clear to me how the concept of the Agent object fits within the
> framework of CDNI as the details of the different Agents that may be able
> to access metadata for a Content Service will be specific the to CDN
> distributing that CDNI metadata. In other words I can't see why one would
> need to distribute Agent details between CDNs over CDNI because the Agent=
s
> that are relevant for an uCDN are likely different to the Agents that a
> relevant to a dCDN.

It was not intended that agent information be distributed between
CDNs, that was what I tried to convery with the text stating:=20
  "Domains and Agents MAY be created as a part of an
   off-line business negotiation process or as a part of the CDNI
   bootstrapping process."
Susan had a similar question about who would be responsible for the
creation of agents.  I will clarify that in the next version.=20

> Later on the draft states:
>    The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
>    to retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
>    Domain.  This is intended to allow CDNs to separate upstream Metadata
>    from downstream Metadata (e.g., a uCDN content acquisition URL may
>    point to a CP origin, however the content acquisition URL that the
>    dCDN retrieves from the uCDN may point at a surrogate in the uCDN).
>=20
> This implies that the specification of Agents is really for imposing a
> specific implementation on CDNs in how they manage metadata received from
> a uCDN and how they expose that metadata to dCDNs. As the scope of CDNI
> does not cover the internal workings or operation of a particular CDN it
> would appear to me that imposing a particular internal mechanism for a
> single CDN to manage & distribute CDNI metadata is inappropriate for the
> CDNI WG.

The point was that different consumers of the metadata interface may
require different responses (or they may not).  Could that be left up
to individual implementations?  Perhaps.  I am not sure what internal
mechanism this imposes?  Are you saying that CDNI should only define
the metadata semantics, and not the storage representation?  My goal
was to define a generic representation, that could adapt to any=20
semantics?  The agent is a part of that, though, in the degenerate
case of a single agent, nothing is lost?

> Metadata:
> I am a little confused about the desire to keep the actual specification
> of metadata opaque. In order for a CDN to do anything useful with the CDN=
I
> metadata it receives it needs to understand the syntax and semantics of
> the metadata it receives, however the draft intentionally keeps both the
> syntax and semantics for the metadata properties as well as any associate=
d
> values opaque to any CDN that receives or distributes the associated
> metadata and says the associated "functionality SHOULD be agreed upon a
> priori by CDN operators, however, these negotiations are beyond the scope
> of CDNI."
>=20
> Of course, the syntax and semantics of the CDNI metadata could be agreed
> out of band between the operators of the interconnected CDNs but doing
> that for all metadata properties that would be needed to meet the
> objectives of CDNI does not IMO provide any real advantage over what one
> could do today by configuring individual services in different CDNs and
> using CDNI request routing to redirect requests between those services in
> each CDN.
>=20
> I can see that the meaning of the value for a specific metadata property
> might need to be opaque because the value may be applied differently by
> different CDNs (e.g. a more general "QoS" value that each CDN maps to an
> appropriate DSCP value depending on how the underlying network has been
> configured/deployed) but those are more likely to be exceptions rather
> than the general rule and in any case the property itself would still nee=
d
> to be specified & defined, so even with that in mind I'm struggling to se=
e
> the value in keeping all metadata opaque.

My concern with defining all the semantics of metadata and designing a
protocol around that, is you typically end up with a less extensible
design.  I would not want to have to update the metadata interface rfc
just to support a new piece of metadata in the future.  I am not saying
that we should not define metadata, I just think it should be separate
from the data model and the protocol, so I concentrated on those first.
I definitely feel that we should define a base set of metadata that all
CDNs should support.  I do not think the draft prevents that.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
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Hi Ben, David, Grant,

[Individual hat on]

One quick question:
"
  The CDNI Metadata interface specified in this document is a read-only
   interface.  Therefore support for other HTTP methods such as PUT,
   POST and DELETE etc. is not specified.  Server implementations of
   this interface SHOULD reject all methods other than GET and HEAD.
"
So to deal with metadata changes/invalidation reactively, the uCDN/dCDN =
would play with TTL and conditional gets.
So we end up with deployment trade-offs requiring tuning between =
reactivity and revalidation load.
Support of update/removal in the CDNI interface would allow to ensure =
high reactivity for the important changes (eg immediately stop serving =
content to a given region) while setting TTLs higher to ensure low =
revalidation load.
Is your motivation to exclude support for update/removal to keep things =
as simple as possible so the group can define a minimum solution asap, =
or do you think update/removal won't be needed at all even if we picture =
large scale deployments.

Cheers

Francois


On 12 Sep 2011, at 07:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

> Colleagues,
>=20
> We just uploaded a proposal for a CDNI Metadata model and an interface =
specification for distributing CDNI Metadata (see below).
>=20
> This initial version does not attempt to articulate all the CDNI =
Metadata that would be required to satisfy all CDNI use cases. Instead, =
we have proposed a smaller set of properties that should be sufficient =
to implement a minimal interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
>=20
> This is because, at this stage the important thing in our opinion is =
to focus any discussion on the overall structure of the interface rather =
than on the details or omission of particular properties.
>=20
> Our proposal is available here:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata-00
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben, David & Grant
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



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Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:42:33 -0700
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Hello Kevin,

[with Individual hat on]

A first set of high level questions:

* directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update =
mechanism:
Could you clarify which of the above operation you see possibly =
happening in which direction?
For example, regarding update/removal, do you see:
	*a)  the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to =
update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?
	*b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN =
to update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some =
out-of-date metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).
For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a =
GET towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET =
could possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by =
the dCDN?

* in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly associated with a =
set of "hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of unmodified =
hostnames is used unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That =
can be the case in some deployment, but that may not always be the case. =
For example, when HTTP redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream CDN =
may want to modify (possibly hide) the actual content provider hostnames =
(and possibly part of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I =
believe this is mentioned in the framework).=20
Would you consider modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for the =
fact that a domain may be "referenced" differently by some dCDNs than by =
the uCDN?
I think it means:
	* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it =
matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path. =
Let's call this "resource sets".
	* "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it =
shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per =
"dCDN" basis.
Would that work for you?

* in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing =
"/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?


Cheers

Francois

=09


On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:

> Hi all,
>=20
>  Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
>=20
>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
>=20
>  The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>  to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>  associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hello =
Kevin,<div><br></div><div>[with Individual hat =
on]</div><div><br></div><div>A first set of high level =
questions:</div><div><br></div><div>* directionality of metadata =
creation/retrieval/removal/update mechanism:</div><div>Could you clarify =
which of the above operation you see possibly happening in which =
direction?</div><div>For example, regarding update/removal,&nbsp;do you =
see:</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>*a)&nbsp;&nbsp;the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to =
update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>*b) the =
POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN to update/remove =
some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some out-of-date metadata =
had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).</div><div>For example, regarding =
retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a GET towards the uCDN to =
acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET could possibly be also =
issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the =
dCDN?</div><div><br></div><div>* in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" =
is directly associated with a set of "hostnames". So this assumes that =
the same set of unmodified hostnames is used unmodified everywhere in =
all the potential dCDNs. That can be the case in some deployment, but =
that may not always be the case. For example, when HTTP redirection is =
used across CDNs, an upstream CDN may want to modify (possibly hide) the =
actual content provider hostnames (and possibly part of the URI path) =
when redirecting to a dCDN (I believe this is mentioned in the =
framework).&nbsp;</div><div>Would you consider modifying your proposed =
CDNI model to allow for the fact that a domain may be "referenced" =
differently by some dCDNs than by the uCDN?</div><div>I think it =
means:</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">=
	</span>* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible =
so it matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over =
hostname/path. Let's call this "resource sets".</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* =
"resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it shoudl be =
folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per "dCDN" =
basis.</div><div>Would that work for you?</div><div><br></div><div>* in =
section&nbsp;3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing =
"/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say =
"/CDNI/MI/metadata"?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><=
div><br></div><div>Francois</div><div><br></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, =
Kevin J Ma wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div>Hi all,<br><br> &nbsp;Just uploaded a new I-D with a =
proposed metadata model and API:<br><br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt"=
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt</a><br>=
<br> &nbsp;The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata =
representation<br> &nbsp;to support opaque metadata and addresses some =
of the security issues<br> &nbsp;associated with metadata retrieval. =
&nbsp;Comments welcome.<br><br>thanx.<br><br>-- &nbsp;Kevin J. =
Ma<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"></span></div></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-658--876546383--

From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 01:00:09 2011
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Francois,

Good question, see below.

On 17 Oct 2011, at 21:10, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:
> So to deal with metadata changes/invalidation reactively, the =
uCDN/dCDN would play with TTL and conditional gets.
> So we end up with deployment trade-offs requiring tuning between =
reactivity and revalidation load.
> Support of update/removal in the CDNI interface would allow to ensure =
high reactivity for the important changes (eg immediately stop serving =
content to a given region) while setting TTLs higher to ensure low =
revalidation load.
> Is your motivation to exclude support for update/removal to keep =
things as simple as possible so the group can define a minimum solution =
asap, or do you think update/removal won't be needed at all even if we =
picture large scale deployments.

Neither. Although we don't say so explicitly in the draft our thinking =
was to model explicit CDNI Metadata invalidation/removal in the same =
manner as explicit invalidation/removal of actual content and have that =
performed via a request over the CDNI Control interface rather than =
having two separate approaches - one for CDNI metadata and a different =
one for the content itself.

Ben


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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Kevin,
> Adding the one-to-many relationship
> between the hostname and metadata tables would cause duplicate entries
> in the metadata table (one per hostname)?
Sorry, after reading the draft again, I have to say my intention was that
the relationship between the Hostname and Metadata object should be a
one-to-zero or one-to-one relation like the figure below. All metadata
associated with one hostname or one url prefix which at least containing a
hostname should be grouped in one Metadata object (i.e. explicitly define
all the properties of each hostname in one Metadata object). I think this is
more straight-forward and consistent with the existing today CDN metadata
model.  Is it possible for you to consider modifying your proposal on this?

   +----------+
  |        | 1
  | Agent   +---------------------------+
  |        |                |
  +----+-----+                  |
       | 1..*                |
       |                    |
       | 1                   | 1
   +----+-----+             +----+-----+
  |         |          |          |
  | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
  |         |          |          |
   +----+-----+             +-----+----+
       | 1                   |
       |                     |
       | 1..*                 |
   +----+-----+                 |
  |         |    1   0..1     |
  | Hostname +----------------------------+
  |         |
   +----------+

When reading through the examples in section 3.3.3, I found no agent id/name
is conveyed in the metadata retrieval message, I remember we discussed that
for different agent the upCDN may response with different value of a
metadata, would you double check that?
Thanks.

Best Regards
Xiaoyan(Susan) He

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:26 AM
To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface

Hi Susan,

  ok, I think I understand now.  In writing the draft, I was not sure if 
  this would be a typical use case.  Adding the one-to-many relationship
  between the hostname and metadata tables would cause duplicate entries
  in the metadata table (one per hostname)?  One alternative would be to
  use a many-to-many relationship instead, though verification of domain
  constraints on creation becomes more complex.  In general, if we think
  that this flexibility is required, I have no issue with making changes
  to the model, however, if it is unlikely to be used, I would favor the
  simpler approach.

  Is a one-to-many relationship between the hostname and metadata tables
  that much better than removing the hostname table completely (and just
  adding a hostname field to the domain, i.e., the degenerate case where
  each domain only has one hostname)?  That is essentially what it would
  be doing?
  
thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:14 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> I share the view that the concept of Domain is useful, my suggestion is
> linking metadata to Hostname and keep the Domain,
> i.e. something like the figure below. Benefit is metadata associated with
> one custormer can be grouped even different
> Hostnames belong the Domain has different metadata value.
> 
> 
>   +----------+
>  |        | 1
>  | Agent   +---------------------------+
>  |        |                |
>  +----+-----+                  |
>       | 1..*                |
>       |                    |
>       | 1                   | 1
>   +----+-----+             +----+-----+
>  |         |          |          |
>  | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
>  |         |          |          |
>   +----+-----+             +-----+----+
>       | 1                   |
>       |                     |
>       | 1..*                 |
>   +----+-----+                 |
>  |         |    1   0..*     |
>  | Hostname +----------------------------+
>  |         |
>   +----------+
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:26 PM
> To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> 
> Hi Susan,
> 
>   responses inline:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 5:35 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
> > - I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of all
> > hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a
> > specific
> > metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
> > creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same metadata,
> I
> > think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.
> 
> From a conceptual perspective, it could be argued that the domain
> object is extraneous.  As an implementation detail, however, the
> multi-table joins, imo, were simplified by having a central object
> to define the domain, so I added one.  From an operator perspective,
> having a way to group multiple hostnames also seems useful, even
> though, in the degenerate case, you could just have one hostname per
> domain.  If there is a concensus view that the domain is unnecessary,
> it could be removed.
> 
> > -I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
> > communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
> > Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal solution
> > for
> > that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your
> draft
> > could also be applicable for other interfaces?
> 
> I agree that the other interfaces (control/logging) will require some
> type of authentication and security.  The agent concept could certainly
> be extended to other interfaces, and I agree that it would be good to
> have the same solution for all interfaces
> 
> thanx.
> 
> --  Kevin J. Ma
> 
> > Best Regards
> > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
> > To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Susan,
> >
> >   thanx for the comments, responses inline:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> > > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi Kevin,
> > > Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> > > >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the Domain
> > and
> > > accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> > > - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is
> > accessed
> > > by
> > > a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the data
> > model
> > > works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname within
> > one
> > > Doman?
> >
> > I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
> > hostname
> > needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was
> thinking
> > of
> > hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does something
> > along
> > the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
> > lookup):
> >
> >   domain = get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"), "domain")
> >   if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
> >     return error
> >   metadata = db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
> >                                                  domain,
> > getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
> >   xml = generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
> >   return xml
> >
> > > - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> > > one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access one
> > > Metadata within one Domain?
> >
> > That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to many.
> > Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent can
> be
> > associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B,
> and
> > C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B, and
> > also
> > have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)
> >
> > > > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
> > to
> > > retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
> Domain.
> > > - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with an
> > Agent
> > > explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different Agents
> > is
> > > an
> > > inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just transmit
> > its
> > > identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.
> >
> > I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different
> values
> > to
> > different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store that
> > information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies the
> > implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue
> > proper
> > consideration.
> >
> > > - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within
> one
> > > Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates corresponding
> > Agent
> > > objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> > > located
> > > in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?
> >
> > This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
> > different
> > entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents to
> > represent
> > those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.
> >
> > thanx!
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Best Regards
> > > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Kevin J Ma
> > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> > > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > >   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> > >
> > >     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
> > >
> > >   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
> > >   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
> > >   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> > >
> > > thanx.
> > >
> > > --  Kevin J. Ma
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CDNi mailing list
> > > CDNi@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



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Following this discussion, I think there are two basic questions for the WG to answer:


1.       Whether a capability negotiation is needed for an upstream CDN to select one eligible downstream CDN (assume that business is out of scope), provided that different CDNs have different "service profiles".



2.       Whether content is transparent to current CDNs. If yes, there is NO transcoding/transrating kind of content adaptation in CDNs, and of course there will be NO parameter related to such kind of capability in CDNI scope.  If content is NOT transparent to current CDNs, then IMO CDNI has interoperability concerns to use the content adaptation parameters.

BR,
-Haibin


From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ZhouZhipeng
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:10 AM
To: Saurabh Chattopadhyay; grant.watson@bt.com
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Saurabh,

On the core functionality as always.
Right now across the world, the convergence of mobile/internet/fixed system is the key requirement for the industry.
Generally CDN is not restricted to a special service. A CDN may support either web-TV delivery or managed IPTV service delivery.

The multi-screen service, means the CDN may deliver content to TV, PAD, PHONE, PC... any screen.
Because the PC may display HD while PHONE may only display small video, the content adaptation may be used before the CDN deliver content to each terminal.

This thread is raised from the concern: whether the protection will be a problem for the content adaptation.
If the people may know that content adaption has no impact for existing DRM,  our discussion has achieved good effect.

Thanks.
Zhipeng


From: Saurabh Chattopadhyay [mailto:saurabh.sdo@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 1:31 AM
To: grant.watson@bt.com
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,
While I'm also of the opinion that the particular case is best left out of scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined in a more appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.
Following is a relevant part from 'draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement' -
"NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction projects
   within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs
   operate separate CDNs for separate services.  For example, there may
   be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV delivery
   and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.  As NSPs integrate
   their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these
   CDNs.  Again, NSPs face the problem of lack of open interfaces for
   CDN interconnection.
"
Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standardize open interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the CDNs adopt the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets naturally extended to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a CDN for Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Service Profile of 'Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals'. And current discussion on Content Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting CDNs of different Service Profiles.
To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned to realize the extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service Portfolio transformations and whether to be considered part of the current scope or not.
IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core Content Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently the work group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile interconnection to standardize till required extent.
Regards,
Saurabh



On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, <grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com>> wrote:
Hi,

"May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI."
Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.

Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.

g-


-----Original Message-----
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com<mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>]
Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12
To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Grant,
Nice to see your comment.
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is " content protection".
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.

May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.

Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.

While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.

So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.

Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.
Thanks.
Zhipeng

-----Original Message-----
From: grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com> [mailto:grant.watson@bt.com<mailto:grant.watson@bt.com>]
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM
To: kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>; ZhouZhipeng; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.

I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.

IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.

g-

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

 If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe
 below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all?  What would be the
 benefit if they already have custom servers and security?

 Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content
 encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do
 not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality.  To do
 that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely.  Content is
 processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the
 CDN.  The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com<mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Kevin,
>
> As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact
> is decided by the CP.
> Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the
> mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video
> service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video
> formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the
> same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All
> content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.
>
> For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email
> for
> reference:
> Given there are two areas: London and Paris.
> And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM
> implementation is independent.
> If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole
> process should be granted by the CP.
> For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal
> and the interface between the SP/Client.
> You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and
> we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.
> Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(
> these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and
> encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt
> or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.
>
> Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a
> general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.
>
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com<mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
>   One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one
>   (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally
>   are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs
>   to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?
>
> thanx.
>
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf
> > Of ZhouZhipeng
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM
> > To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Ben,
> > I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only
> > repeating
> your
> > personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.
> > In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the
> dCDN.
> > But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper
> > solution that will be used by the market.
> > If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just
> > the problem for its deployment.
> >
> > Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it
> > will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in
> > fact and I
> do
> > not know whether you have any special concern that will make you
> > feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.
> > Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via
> > reflector or to you individually.
> > Thanks.
> > Zhipeng
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM
> > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >
> > Zhipeng,
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Ben,
> > > The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the
> user
> > only desires to get his selected content.
> > > But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by
> > > the
> > user.
> > > The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask
> > > the
> > CDN to deliver to user.
> > > While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
> > > then
> > transform to the format as the user select.
> >
> > Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
> > additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
> > However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI
> > charter)
> is
> > to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver
> > content
> from
> > a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
> > time frame (18-24 months).
> >
> > Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
> order
> > to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
> > via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports
> > content adaptation).
> >
> > In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to
> > expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that
> > do not
> help
> > us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
> >
> > > In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats
> > > on
> CP
> > website.
> > > So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
> CDN(your
> > assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base
> > for
> the
> > discussion).
> > >
> > > As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have
> > > ever
> > raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
> supporting
> > media transformation and multi-screen service.
> > > Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
> > > the
> core
> > functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare
> > and
> take
> > deep look.
> >
> > I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI
> > interfaces,
> > namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
> > control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
> >
> > > I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content
> > > related
> > service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may
> > satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just
> > as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful
> > interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.
> > >
> > > Besides, I like raise a case:
> > > Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
> > > media
> > formats.
> > > One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
> > > located
> > in France.
> > > So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
> provider(CDN-
> > Y).
> > > If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
> > > format
> of
> > one content to CDN-Y;
> > > While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y
> > > may
> > conduct some adaptation.
> > > Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
> > > absolutely
> > the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> > > For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
> > > while
> > in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
> > transformation to output 10 streams.
> > >
> > > Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
> > > Remember
> > the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC
> > would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> > > If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say
> > > it
> is
> > not a core functionality.
> >
> > What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular
> > CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to
> > enable
> content
> > delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
> > optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their
> > service but the
> internal
> > workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.
> >
> > So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not
> > a core function required to enable content delivery between
> > interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have
> > to specify
> solutions
> > that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs
> > I
> do
> > not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as
> > it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing
> > deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by
> > operators they needs solutions within.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the
> > > CDN
> > providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the
> > media types as required by the market.
> > >
> > > Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
> > interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.
> > Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.
> > >
> > > Br,
> > > Zhipeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> > > To: ZhouZhipeng
> > > Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >
> > > Zhipeng,
> > >
> > > On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ben and Philip,
> > >> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> > >>
> > >> Ben,
> > >> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function
> > >> of
> > CDN.
> > >> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely
> correct
> > that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> > >> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> > >> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and
> > >> "media
> > type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> > >> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure
> > >> whether
> > the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of
> CDN.
> > >>
> > >> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is
> > >> ", I
> > am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN
> > may claim it support different medias.
> > >> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a
> > >> GSM
> > phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed
> > from
> GSM
> > voice to G.711.
> > >> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
> > transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
> > systems, right.
> > >> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar
> > >> to
> > this case above.
> > >
> > > I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
> networks
> > being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
> > delivery
> the
> > negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider
> > and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has
> > been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
> > what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
> > User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.
> > >
> > >> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the
> > >> way
> "
> > uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN
> > delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to
> > support multiple media types".
> > >
> > > Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
> > > function
> > required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for
> that
> > delivery).
> > >
> > > My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
> interconnection
> > of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also
> > my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as
> > expressed in
> its
> > charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.
> Let's
> > not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the
> > majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting
> > usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.
> > >
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the
> > >> DRM
> > and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)
> > >> If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know
> > >> all
> > the systems should be granted by the content owner.
> > >> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but
> > >> the
> > information related to service itself (such as the geographic
> constraint)
> > should be protected also.
> > >> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> > >>
> > >> Philip,
> > >> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
> "Requirements"
> > but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> > >> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator
> > >> since it
> > may save investment if the system may support different services.
> > >> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the
> > mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> > >> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that
> > >> may
> > support different service systems.
> > >>
> > >> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere
> > >> that
> to
> > implement this is rather simple .
> > >> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be
> referred
> > in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> > >> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> > >> Thanks.
> > >> Zhipeng
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>]
> > >> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> > >> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> > >>
> > >> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
> > >> Requirements
> > doc than for the Use cases draft.
> > >>
> > >> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be
> > >> able to
> > cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the
> > dCDN &
> to
> > signal about this.
> > >>
> > >> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
> > >> requirement,
> > ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.
> > I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is
> > restricted
> to
> > "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering
> > "future" scenarios as well?
> > >>
> > >> Scott,
> > >> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if
> > >> content
> > adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> > >> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> > >> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> > >> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to
> > >> do
> with
> > the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> > metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> > discussion so far,
> I
> > think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of
> > scope(?)
> > >>
> > >> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether
> > >> trust
> is
> > transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,
> > and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts
> > the
> dCDN.
> > However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one
> > possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> phil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Philip Eardley
> > >> Research and Technology Strategy
> > >>
> > >> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or
> > confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named
> above.
> > If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,
> > distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've
> > received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the
> > email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may
> > record your
> emails.
> > >> British Telecommunications plc
> > >> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered
> > >> in England no: 1800000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org>] On
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > Ben Niven-Jenkins
> > >> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> > >> To: ZhouZhipeng
> > >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>
> > >> Colleagues,
> > >>
> > >> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.
> > >> Content
> > Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and
> > transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
> > function of a
> CDN
> > which typically delivers the content that is requested without
> > explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> > >>
> > >> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service
> > >> the
> CDN
> > is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the
> > delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of
> > the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
> > applying
> > policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be
> > delivered.
> > >>
> > >> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and
> allow
> > to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the
> > CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content
> > selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the
> > selected content).
> > >>
> > >> Ben
> > >>
> > >> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's
> > description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> > >>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two
> > >>> content
> > with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content
> copy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to
> > >>> specific
> > devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> > >>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and
> taken
> > some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> > >>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case
> > >>> and
> > area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic
> > requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the
> > CDN interconnection.
> > >>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your
> > comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be
> > incorporated in the use case draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >>> Zhipeng
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com<mailto:swainner@cisco.com>]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> > >>> To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> > >>> This description falls under the category of Geographic
> > >>> Extension
> yet
> > >>> the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> > >>> used
> > in
> > >>> the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case needs
> > >>> to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
> > >>> scenario
> > where
> > >>> a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content
> > >>> from
> > CSP-A
> > >>> via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.  The dCDN is
> > >>> allowed
> > to
> > >>> distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other
> > >>> users
> in
> > >>> the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content
> > >>> unless
> they
> > >>> too have such an agreement.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if
> > >>> we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific
> > >>> content or the restrictions on the ability of a
> > CDN
> > >>> to deliver specific content.  I certainly understand the case
> > >>> where
> a
> > >>> CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a "managed
> > >>> path" if such content is HD while allowing the content
> > >>> distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same
> > >>> could apply to
> encryption
> > >>> methods, delivery methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
> have
> > >>> its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content
> while
> > >>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> > >>>
> > >>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> > >>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but
> > >>> not
> > DASH)
> > >>> o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer
> high
> > >>> bit-rate variants of the media
> > >>> o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I
> > >>> don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.
> > >>>
> > >>> Section 10 Security Considerations
> > >>>
> > >>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,
> > >>> I
> > think
> > >>> we can describe this in four contexts:
> > >>>
> > >>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle
> > contract
> > >>> arrangement for distribution)
> > >>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive
> > >>> trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)
> > >>> above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the
> > >>> recognition of
> > right
> > >>> to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between
> > >>> the User and CSP (the contract
> authorizing
> > >>> the user access to the content)
> > >>>
> > >>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.
> > >>> The
> > user
> > >>> is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> > >>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that
> > >>> the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated
> > >>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
> appended
> > >>> tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.
> > The
> > >>> user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but
> transparency
> > >>> is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly
> > >>> defined
> when
> > >>> the delegation for content delivery is executed.  Clearly, the
> choice
> > of
> > >>> authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> CDNi mailing list
> > >>> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CDNi mailing list
> > >> CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CDNi mailing list
> > CDNi@ietf.org<mailto:CDNi@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Following this discussion, I think there are two basic questions for the WG to answer:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Whether a capability negotiation is needed for an upstream CDN to select one eligible downstream CDN (assume that business is out of
 scope), provided that different CDNs have different &#8220;service profiles&#8221;. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:0cm"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:18.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Whether content is transparent to current CDNs. If yes, there is NO transcoding/transrating kind of content adaptation in CDNs, and of
 course there will be NO parameter related to such kind of capability in CDNI scope. &nbsp;If content is NOT transparent to current CDNs, then IMO CDNI has interoperability concerns to use the content adaptation parameters.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">BR,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-Haibin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ZhouZhipeng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 14, 2011 11:10 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Saurabh Chattopadhyay; grant.watson@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Saurabh,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">On the core functionality as always.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Right now across the world, the convergence of mobile/internet/fixed system is the key requirement for the industry.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Generally CDN is not restricted to a special service. A CDN may support either
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">web-TV delivery or managed IPTV service delivery.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The multi-screen service, means the CDN may deliver content to TV, PAD, PHONE, PC&#8230; any screen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Because the PC may display HD while PHONE may only display small video, the content adaptation may be used before the CDN deliver content to each
 terminal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">This thread is raised from the concern: whether the protection will be a problem for the content adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If the people may know that content adaption has no impact for existing DRM, &nbsp;our discussion has achieved good effect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Saurabh Chattopadhyay [mailto:saurabh.sdo@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 14, 2011 1:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> grant.watson@bt.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ZhouZhipeng; kevin.ma@azukisystems.com; ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Colleagues,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">While I&#8217;m also of the opinion that the particular case is best left out of scope for now, I think the scoping shall get defined/refined in a more
 appropriate place, possibly in CDN-I problem statement draft.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Following is a relevant part from &#8216;draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement&#8217; &#8211;</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8220;</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">NSPs have often deployed CDNs as specialized cost-reduction
 projects</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; within the context of a particular service or environment, some NSPs</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; operate separate CDNs for separate services.&nbsp; For example, there may</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; be a CDN for managed IPTV service delivery, a CDN for web-TV delivery</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; and a CDN for video delivery to Mobile terminals.&nbsp; As NSPs integrate</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; their service portfolio, there is a need for interconnecting these</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; CDNs.&nbsp; Again, NSPs face the problem of lack of open interfaces for</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.4pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp; CDN interconnection.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#8221;</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Unquestionably, primary responsibility of CDN-I is to standardize open interfaces for core content delivery function, however, while the CDNs adopt
 the particular Service Profiles, the scope of CDN-I gets naturally extended to interconnect the different service profiles. To clarify, a CDN for&nbsp;Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals, to me is a CDN adopting Service Profile of &#8216;Video Delivery to Mobile Terminals&#8217;.
 And current discussion on Content Adaptation appears as a particular case for interconnecting CDNs of different Service Profiles.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">To that end, many aspects of ongoing work will get questioned to realize the extent of the interconnection use cases supporting Service Portfolio
 transformations and whether to be considered part of the current scope or not.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">IMHO the overall work needs to be staged in a manner that core Content Delivery Function gets the immediate attention, and subsequently the work
 group shall decide on the relevant part of service profile interconnection to standardize till required extent.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Regards,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Saurabh</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 6:10 PM, &lt;<a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
&quot;May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Just like it works right now: If objects are encrypted differently or use different DRMs generally it translates as separate objects in the CDN, Interconnected or otherwise. DRM is implemented by the CP, in the knowledge
 of what end devices and DRM platforms they are delivering to. IMHO that works right now and would work in a CDNI scenario.<br>
<br>
Frankly, I am even more convinced that this is best left out of scope now. IMHO duplication of content assets inside the CDN to facilitate cross DRM delivery is not a CDNI issue. I can see how this may be optimised perhaps, to reduce the amount of assets for
 example, but again that is not a CDNI issue - the issue exists for both CDN today and Interconnected CDN.<br>
<br>
g-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:<a href="mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sent: 13 October 2011 13:12<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">To: Watson,G,Grant,DMK5 R; <a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">
kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; <a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Grant,<br>
Nice to see your comment.<br>
May I conclude that by now the core issue for the content adaptation is &quot; content protection&quot;.<br>
As a DRM people for years, I fully understand this concern.<br>
In fact the DRM circle have fully understood this concern since DRM should consider both the protection and the service implementation.<br>
<br>
May I ask a question, if the content has been encrypted and would not be modified in the CDNI process, but the devices in two areas have deployed different DRM system, how it will be for the CDNI.<br>
It is not related to the content transcoding while you still face the issue for the protection transformation. For example, how your company's IPTV may connect the FT's terminals.<br>
<br>
Even in the internet that the PCs in different area may install the same soft DRM client, it may still has the problem of the content's duplication and content's verification(integrity protection).<br>
Take the OMA DRM DCF as an example, each content copy has its unique identifier(contentId) and each content copy has its unique Hash value.<br>
Hence in OMA DRM system, you( the device) may not duplicate a protected content copy that may be verified successfully by the device.<br>
Only the CP that encrypt the content may create a new copy of the content with another identifier.<br>
<br>
While in CDN system, we all know for the load balancing the CDN should be able to duplicate the hot content when needed. How it may be realized if the CDN may not create a new content copy that comply with the DRM solution.<br>
<br>
So you may see, there should be a secure facility within the CDN that may create/encrypt the content which may be accepted by the DRM client.<br>
<br>
Above is my analysis on this issue. Hope you may take a look at the OMA DRM specification to check the reason.<br>
For any question, I would like to respond as long as I know.<br>
Also note that the analysis is not specific to the content adaptation. I mean only general functionality of CDN.<br>
Thanks.<br>
Zhipeng<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:grant.watson@bt.com">grant.watson@bt.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 6:34 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>; ZhouZhipeng;
<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
I'd support that perspective. Today CPs, in my experience, sometimes even actively seeks assurances that the content will NOT be modified by the CDN or by other downstream processes. So to envisage a CP allowing/wanting that to happen in a dCDN (that is likely
 out of their control, perhaps in another geography and with no quality feedback) feels like a very, very unlikely scenario. In general the content arrives encrypted and is shipped transparently, in my experience. Indeed the CPs desire to ship to different
 devices / screens etc. is also transparent to the CDN, they're just different objects requested by logic that is out-of-band to the CDN.<br>
<br>
I know of cases where content is transcoded/modified for mobile access by transparent caching, for example. But TC is not relevant to CDNI.<br>
<br>
IMHO content adaption/modification/transcoding is not a fundamental issue for CDNI. The issues around solving the fundamentals of how to Interconnect CDN are challenging enough. So I feel we should focus the scope on widely deployed use-cases / features and
 very likely new use-cases that are created by CDNI.<br>
<br>
g-<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kevin J Ma<br>
Sent: 13 October 2011 05:02<br>
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Zhipeng,<br>
<br>
&nbsp;If the CP has tight integration with both CDN providers as you describe<br>
&nbsp;below, I do not see why they would need CDNI at all? &nbsp;What would be the<br>
&nbsp;benefit if they already have custom servers and security?<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Premium content providers that I am familiar with pregenerate content<br>
&nbsp;encodings, run them through rigorous quality control tests, and do<br>
&nbsp;not allow any modifications after that, to guarantee quality. &nbsp;To do<br>
&nbsp;that in a CDN, let alone across CDNs, seems unlikely. &nbsp;Content is<br>
&nbsp;processed in a secure facility and never released unencrypted to the<br>
&nbsp;CDN. &nbsp;The CDN just acts a transparent delivery medium.<br>
<br>
thanx.<br>
<br>
-- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:<a href="mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com">zhouzhipeng@huawei.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:25 PM<br>
&gt; To: Kevin J Ma; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Kevin,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; As we ever discussed in previous email that the content format in fact<br>
&gt; is decided by the CP.<br>
&gt; Only under the permission, the HD video may be transformed to the<br>
&gt; mobile video. i.e. if the CP support both IPTV and mobile video<br>
&gt; service, then it may require the CDN to support multiple video<br>
&gt; formats. The multi-screen service means the content source is from the<br>
&gt; same CP while the target devices/clients include different groups. All<br>
&gt; content businesses are under the permission of the content owner.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; For the content protection, I like talk a little more in this email<br>
&gt; for<br>
&gt; reference:<br>
&gt; Given there are two areas: London and Paris.<br>
&gt; And in these two areas, each has deployed the DRM. Generally each DRM<br>
&gt; implementation is independent.<br>
&gt; If the content is delivered from London to Paris, absolutely the whole<br>
&gt; process should be granted by the CP.<br>
&gt; For the DRM standard, it mainly concern the security on the terminal<br>
&gt; and the interface between the SP/Client.<br>
&gt; You may see that the servers that are granted by the CP is secure and<br>
&gt; we do not need to worry that secure server would be the hacker.<br>
&gt; Hence, if the content is delivered from one server to another server(<br>
&gt; these servers are the equipments granted by CP that may handle and<br>
&gt; encrypt the content), the content is safe. Whether decrypt/re-encrypt<br>
&gt; or just deliver unencrypted content between these two servers are secure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also, we may see such security issue for content distribution is a<br>
&gt; general scenario that is not related to whether taking content adaptation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:<a href="mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com">kevin.ma@azukisystems.com</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:45 AM<br>
&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; One practical concern to consider with the use case of downloading one<br>
&gt; &nbsp; (as opposed to ten) streams is that premium content providers generally<br>
&gt; &nbsp; are very concerned with quality control and are unlikely to trust dCDNs<br>
&gt; &nbsp; to modify the content, and most likely, the content will be encrypted?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; thanx.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; -- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf<br>
&gt; &gt; Of ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 9:51 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; I respect your personal standpoint while seems you are only<br>
&gt; &gt; repeating<br>
&gt; your<br>
&gt; &gt; personal conclusion without new reason/evidence.<br>
&gt; &gt; In my case, I have explained the uCDN may deliver 10 streams to the<br>
&gt; dCDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; But in our reality, we should consider whether it is a proper<br>
&gt; &gt; solution that will be used by the market.<br>
&gt; &gt; If the standard may not support the market requirements, it is just<br>
&gt; &gt; the problem for its deployment.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Meanwhile in my feeling you have not carefully thought about how it<br>
&gt; &gt; will bring to the standard. I have repeated it is very simple in<br>
&gt; &gt; fact and I<br>
&gt; do<br>
&gt; &gt; not know whether you have any special concern that will make you<br>
&gt; &gt; feel it would not be able to be done within 18-24 months.<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben, as I repeat, if you have any question, I like respond via<br>
&gt; &gt; reflector or to you individually.<br>
&gt; &gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:13 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">
cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the<br>
&gt; user<br>
&gt; &gt; only desires to get his selected content.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; user.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN to deliver to user.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; then<br>
&gt; &gt; transform to the format as the user select.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many<br>
&gt; &gt; additional services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery.<br>
&gt; &gt; However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI<br>
&gt; &gt; charter)<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver<br>
&gt; &gt; content<br>
&gt; from<br>
&gt; &gt; a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short<br>
&gt; &gt; time frame (18-24 months).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in<br>
&gt; order<br>
&gt; &gt; to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users<br>
&gt; &gt; via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports<br>
&gt; &gt; content adaptation).<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to<br>
&gt; &gt; expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that<br>
&gt; &gt; do not<br>
&gt; help<br>
&gt; &gt; us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; on<br>
&gt; CP<br>
&gt; &gt; website.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the<br>
&gt; CDN(your<br>
&gt; &gt; assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base<br>
&gt; &gt; for<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; discussion).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; As for &quot;the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; ever<br>
&gt; &gt; raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed<br>
&gt; supporting<br>
&gt; &gt; media transformation and multi-screen service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; core<br>
&gt; &gt; functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare<br>
&gt; &gt; and<br>
&gt; take<br>
&gt; &gt; deep look.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI<br>
&gt; &gt; interfaces,<br>
&gt; &gt; namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and<br>
&gt; &gt; control plus content acquisition and content delivery.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; related<br>
&gt; &gt; service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may<br>
&gt; &gt; satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just<br>
&gt; &gt; as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Besides, I like raise a case:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; media<br>
&gt; &gt; formats.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; located<br>
&gt; &gt; in France.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN<br>
&gt; provider(CDN-<br>
&gt; &gt; Y).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; format<br>
&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; one content to CDN-Y;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; may<br>
&gt; &gt; conduct some adaptation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; absolutely<br>
&gt; &gt; the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; while<br>
&gt; &gt; in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take<br>
&gt; &gt; transformation to output 10 streams.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Remember<br>
&gt; &gt; the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC<br>
&gt; &gt; would select one CDN provider with the lower price.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; it<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; not a core functionality.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to<br>
&gt; &gt; enable<br>
&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many<br>
&gt; &gt; optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their<br>
&gt; &gt; service but the<br>
&gt; internal<br>
&gt; &gt; workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not<br>
&gt; &gt; a core function required to enable content delivery between<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have<br>
&gt; &gt; to specify<br>
&gt; solutions<br>
&gt; &gt; that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs<br>
&gt; &gt; I<br>
&gt; do<br>
&gt; &gt; not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as<br>
&gt; &gt; it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing<br>
&gt; &gt; deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by<br>
&gt; &gt; operators they needs solutions within.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the<br>
&gt; &gt; media types as required by the market.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the<br>
&gt; &gt; interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved.<br>
&gt; &gt; Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Br,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:<a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">
cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Zhipeng,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben and Philip,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to respond your concern in this one email:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I feel what we are now discussing is what is the &quot;core&quot; function<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely<br>
&gt; correct<br>
&gt; &gt; that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; What means service. It should include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;media<br>
&gt; &gt; type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If we only concern &quot;delivering one data block&quot;, I am not sure<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; whether<br>
&gt; &gt; the issues such as &quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of<br>
&gt; CDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For &quot;without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &quot;, I<br>
&gt; &gt; am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; may claim it support different medias.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; GSM<br>
&gt; &gt; phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed<br>
&gt; &gt; from<br>
&gt; GSM<br>
&gt; &gt; voice to G.711.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been<br>
&gt; &gt; transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two<br>
&gt; &gt; systems, right.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; this case above.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile<br>
&gt; networks<br>
&gt; &gt; being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery<br>
&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider<br>
&gt; &gt; and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has<br>
&gt; &gt; been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of<br>
&gt; &gt; what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the<br>
&gt; &gt; User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; As for you said selecting media by the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; way<br>
&gt; &quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN<br>
&gt; &gt; delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to<br>
&gt; &gt; support multiple media types&quot;.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; function<br>
&gt; &gt; required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for<br>
&gt; that<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; My position is that we should focus on how to enable the<br>
&gt; interconnection<br>
&gt; &gt; of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also<br>
&gt; &gt; my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as<br>
&gt; &gt; expressed in<br>
&gt; its<br>
&gt; &gt; charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself.<br>
&gt; Let's<br>
&gt; &gt; not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the<br>
&gt; &gt; majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting<br>
&gt; &gt; usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; A good question is &quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; DRM<br>
&gt; &gt; and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; all<br>
&gt; &gt; the systems should be granted by the content owner.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; &gt; information related to service itself (such as the geographic<br>
&gt; constraint)<br>
&gt; &gt; should be protected also.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; So, trust is not a problem for the media.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for<br>
&gt; &quot;Requirements&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; but I do not know why it is not for Use case.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; since it<br>
&gt; &gt; may save investment if the system may support different services.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the<br>
&gt; &gt; mobile service and another system for the FBB service.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; may<br>
&gt; &gt; support different service systems.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; that<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; implement this is rather simple .<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be<br>
&gt; referred<br>
&gt; &gt; in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: <a href="mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben, Zhipeng, all,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Requirements<br>
&gt; &gt; doc than for the Use cases draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; able to<br>
&gt; &gt; cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the<br>
&gt; &gt; dCDN &amp;<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; signal about this.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; I think that coping with this scenario is a second order<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; requirement,<br>
&gt; &gt; ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work.<br>
&gt; &gt; I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is<br>
&gt; &gt; restricted<br>
&gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;initial&quot; scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering<br>
&gt; &gt; &quot;future&quot; scenarios as well?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Scott,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; do<br>
&gt; with<br>
&gt; &gt; the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<br>
&gt; &gt; metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the<br>
&gt; &gt; discussion so far,<br>
&gt; I<br>
&gt; &gt; think negotiation about static policy stuff is rather out of<br>
&gt; &gt; scope(?)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On security considerations, an interesting question is whether<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; trust<br>
&gt; is<br>
&gt; &gt; transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN,<br>
&gt; &gt; and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts<br>
&gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt; dCDN.<br>
&gt; &gt; However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one<br>
&gt; &gt; possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Best wishes<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; phil<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Philip Eardley<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Research and Technology Strategy<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or<br>
&gt; &gt; confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named<br>
&gt; above.<br>
&gt; &gt; If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying,<br>
&gt; &gt; distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've<br>
&gt; &gt; received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the<br>
&gt; &gt; email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may<br>
&gt; &gt; record your<br>
&gt; emails.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; British Telecommunications plc<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; in England no: 1800000<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; From: <a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Behalf<br>
&gt; Of<br>
&gt; &gt; Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Cc: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Colleagues,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Content<br>
&gt; &gt; Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and<br>
&gt; &gt; transforming it to another format or representation) is not a &quot;core&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; function of a<br>
&gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; which typically delivers the content that is requested without<br>
&gt; &gt; explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; the<br>
&gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the<br>
&gt; &gt; delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of<br>
&gt; &gt; the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or<br>
&gt; &gt; applying<br>
&gt; &gt; policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be<br>
&gt; &gt; delivered.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and<br>
&gt; allow<br>
&gt; &gt; to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content<br>
&gt; &gt; selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the<br>
&gt; &gt; selected content).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Ben<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's<br>
&gt; &gt; description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content<br>
&gt; &gt; with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content<br>
&gt; copy.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Here the first bullet &quot;a subset of encodings deliverable to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; specific<br>
&gt; &gt; devices,&quot; has listed the case of content adaptation.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and<br>
&gt; taken<br>
&gt; &gt; some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; and<br>
&gt; &gt; area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic<br>
&gt; &gt; requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN interconnection.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your<br>
&gt; &gt; comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be<br>
&gt; &gt; incorporated in the use case draft.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Zhipeng<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; From: Scott Wainner [mailto:<a href="mailto:swainner@cisco.com">swainner@cisco.com</a>]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; To: <a href="mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; This description falls under the category of Geographic<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Extension<br>
&gt; yet<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the third paragraph states the case where a different device is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; used<br>
&gt; &gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use case needs<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to address the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; scenario<br>
&gt; &gt; where<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; from<br>
&gt; &gt; CSP-A<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region. &nbsp;The dCDN is<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowed<br>
&gt; &gt; to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A; however, not other<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; users<br>
&gt; in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the region of the dCDN are allowed to retrieve the content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; unless<br>
&gt; they<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; too have such an agreement.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we're talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; content or the restrictions on the ability of a<br>
&gt; &gt; CDN<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to deliver specific content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; where<br>
&gt; a<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CSP will restrict the distribution of content to a &quot;managed<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; path&quot; if such content is HD while allowing the content<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; distribution via an un-managed path if such content is SD (same<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; could apply to<br>
&gt; encryption<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; methods, delivery methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may<br>
&gt; have<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; its own restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content<br>
&gt; while<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; allowing the distribution of SD content.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; not<br>
&gt; &gt; DASH)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to offer<br>
&gt; high<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; bit-rate variants of the media<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; o third bullet make sense if the policy addresses QoE but I<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; don't think subscriber rights/authorizations apply.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Section 10 Security Considerations<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I<br>
&gt; &gt; think<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; we can describe this in four contexts:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle<br>
&gt; &gt; contract<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; arrangement for distribution)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; trust relationship that extends the contract defined in (a)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; above) c. The relationship between the User and dCDN (the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; recognition of<br>
&gt; &gt; right<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; to download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the User and CSP (the contract<br>
&gt; authorizing<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the user access to the content)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The<br>
&gt; &gt; user<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is<br>
&gt; initiated<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might use URL<br>
&gt; appended<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended hashes.<br>
&gt; &gt; The<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods, but<br>
&gt; transparency<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; is only afforded if the methods are interoperable clearly<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; defined<br>
&gt; when<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; the delegation for content delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the<br>
&gt; choice<br>
&gt; &gt; of<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Scott<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt; CDNi mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; &gt; <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CDNi mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Francois,

>     * the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it
matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path. Let's
call this "resource sets".

       * "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it
shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per "dCDN"
basis.

 

Are you proposing remove the "hostname" object or keep it and adding
"resource sets" to "Metadata"?

I think the "hostname" object should be kept as sometimes the customer would
possibly deploy a enforcement policy associated to a hostname , e.g. for
hostname associated with  a set of web pages, CP may prefer DNS routing as
HTTP redirection will cause cookie issues among others. Keeping hostname
level can provide cp with this flexibility.  

 

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) He

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Francois Le Faucheur
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:43 AM
To: Kevin J Ma
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface

 

Hello Kevin,

 

[with Individual hat on]

 

A first set of high level questions:

 

* directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update mechanism:

Could you clarify which of the above operation you see possibly happening in
which direction?

For example, regarding update/removal, do you see:

       *a)  the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to update/remove
some metadata in the uCDN repository?

       *b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN to
update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some out-of-date
metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).

For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a GET
towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET could
possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the dCDN?

 

* in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly associated with a set
of "hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of unmodified hostnames is
used unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That can be the case
in some deployment, but that may not always be the case. For example, when
HTTP redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream CDN may want to modify
(possibly hide) the actual content provider hostnames (and possibly part of
the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I believe this is mentioned in the
framework). 

Would you consider modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for the fact
that a domain may be "referenced" differently by some dCDNs than by the
uCDN?

I think it means:

       * the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it
matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path. Let's
call this "resource sets".

       * "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it
shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per "dCDN"
basis.

Would that work for you?

 

* in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing "/CDNI/MI/domain".
Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?

 

 

Cheers

 

Francois

 

       

 

 

On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:





Hi all,

 Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:

   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt

 The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
 to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
 associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

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<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Francois,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:6.0pt;text-indent:-6.0pt'><span
class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&gt;</span></span><span
class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>* the concept of &quot;hostnames&quot; should be made more flexible
so it matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path.
Let's call this &quot;resource sets&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>* &quot;resource sets&quot; should be dependent on
&quot;Agents&quot;. So perhaps it shoudl be folded inside your
&quot;Metadata&quot; so it can be defined on a per &quot;dCDN&quot; basis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Are you proposing remove the &#8220;hostname&#8221; object or
keep it and adding &#8220;resource sets&#8221; to &#8220;Metadata&#8221;?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think the &#8220;hostname&#8221; object should be kept as sometimes
the customer would possibly deploy a enforcement policy associated to a
hostname , e.g. for hostname associated with &nbsp;a set of web pages, CP may
prefer DNS routing as HTTP redirection will cause cookie issues among others. Keeping
hostname level can provide cp with this flexibility. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'>Best Regards</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'>Xiaoyan(Susan) He</span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> cdni-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Francois Le Faucheur<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kevin J Ma<br>
<b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hello Kevin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>[with Individual hat on]<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>A first set of high level questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>* directionality of metadata
creation/retrieval/removal/update mechanism:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Could you clarify which of the above
operation you see possibly happening in which direction?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>For example, regarding
update/removal,&nbsp;do you see:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>*a)&nbsp;&nbsp;the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to
update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>*b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN to
update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some out-of-date
metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>For example, regarding retrieval, clearly
we want the dCDN to issue a GET towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do
you see that the GET could possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check
metadata stored by the dCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>* in your CDNI metadata model, a
&quot;domain&quot; is directly associated with a set of &quot;hostnames&quot;.
So this assumes that the same set of unmodified hostnames is used unmodified
everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That can be the case in some deployment,
but that may not always be the case. For example, when HTTP redirection is used
across CDNs, an upstream CDN may want to modify (possibly hide) the actual
content provider hostnames (and possibly part of the URI path) when redirecting
to a dCDN (I believe this is mentioned in the framework).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Would you consider modifying your proposed
CDNI model to allow for the fact that a domain may be &quot;referenced&quot;
differently by some dCDNs than by the uCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I think it means:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>* the concept of &quot;hostnames&quot; should be made more flexible
so it matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path.
Let's call this &quot;resource sets&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US>* &quot;resource sets&quot; should be dependent on
&quot;Agents&quot;. So perhaps it shoudl be folded inside your
&quot;Metadata&quot; so it can be defined on a per &quot;dCDN&quot; basis.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Would that work for you?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>* in section&nbsp;3.3.3, you have a couple
of examples showing &quot;/CDNI/MI/domain&quot;. Should those not say
&quot;/CDNI/MI/metadata&quot;?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Francois<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span lang=EN-US>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hi all,<br>
<br>
&nbsp;Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a
href="http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
&nbsp;The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation<br>
&nbsp;to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues<br>
&nbsp;associated with metadata retrieval. &nbsp;Comments welcome.<br>
<br>
thanx.<br>
<br>
-- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CDNi mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

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From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Tue Oct 18 03:36:40 2011
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Spencer,

Apologies for the delay in responding, your mail got buried in my inbox.

On 6 Oct 2011, at 18:07, Spencer Dawkins wrote:

> Hi, Ben,
>=20
> Just checking - would this draft be the place where text on handling =
of unknown metadata elements would be included?

Good question.

It depends what you mean by "unknown".

I think our draft is definitely the place to specify handling of =
malformed responses.

The actual properties associated with the metadata can be split into two =
parts:
1) Delivery protocol independent properties (e.g. ACLs/Locations/Origin =
properties)
2) Delivery protocol dependent properties (e.g. specific features =
associated with a particular delivery protocol or version of a delivery =
protocol)

Currently the draft defines some protocol independent properties but =
doesn't really define any protocol dependent properties.

The metadata draft uses a well-known (i.e. has to be registered in a =
registry somewhere) URI to identify the Delivery Protocol where the URI =
is really just a different form of codepoint. The metadata draft assumes =
that a sister specification defines the interoperable feature set (for =
CDNI) associated with that URI. That sister specification could be for =
example the RFC that defines the Delivery Protocol (e..g RFC2616 for =
HTTP/1.1) and a separate specification could define the CDNI Metadata =
properties used to describe the protocol features, or a single =
specification could for example define a profile of the Delivery =
protocol along with the associated CDNI metadata properties.

If by "unknown" you mean "does not support the underlying protocol =
feature but does recognise the property name" then the specification =
that defines the profile/properties for that protocol (either the =
metadata draft itself or the sister draft specifying the metadata =
properties for a particular protocol) should define which features are =
mandatory and must be applied and which features are left to the dCDN as =
to whether they enforce them or not. Therefore whether a dCDN can ignore =
a feature it doesn't support and still deliver the content or whether it =
must reject request routing/delivery for that content is defined in the =
appropriate delivery protocol profile/specification document.

If by "unknown" you mean "does not recognise the property name" then I =
don't think the dCDN can do anything but reject request routing/delivery =
because it can not determine if the property that it doesn't recognise =
is a mandatory feature to be applied or not.

One caveat to the case of "does not recognise the property name" is if =
for a given delivery protocol, the property that is not recognised is =
not defined in the the associated profile/property specification for =
that Delivery Protocol, which could be considered a form of malformed =
response. In that case it would probably be reasonable to apply Postel's =
law and just ignore that property.

We're happy to try and add some text to the next revision that =
articulates the expected behaviour for malformed responses and the =
expected behaviour for properties defined in the metadata draft itself.

Ben=20
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Spencer
>=20
>> Colleagues,
>>=20
>> We just uploaded a proposal for a CDNI Metadata model and an =
interface specification for distributing CDNI Metadata (see below).
>>=20
>> This initial version does not attempt to articulate all the CDNI =
Metadata that would be required to satisfy all CDNI use cases. Instead, =
we have proposed a smaller set of properties that should be sufficient =
to implement a minimal interconnect of basic HTTP delivery.
>>=20
>> This is because, at this stage the important thing in our opinion is =
to focus any discussion on the overall structure of the interface rather =
than on the details or omission of particular properties.
>>=20
>> Our proposal is available here:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata-00
>>=20
>> Thanks
>> Ben, David & Grant
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


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Kevin,

Please see inline.

On 17 Oct 2011, at 19:26, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
>> Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> I read draft-ma-cdni-metadata but I am struggling a little to =
understand
>> how it fits into the overall framework of CDNI.
>>=20
>> When I read the draft it appeared to me to be aimed more at a Content
>> Provider or CDN Provider configuring the authoritative CDN rather =
that for
>> Metadata exchange between CDNs because of its use of Agents, the fact =
it
>> keeps all metadata opaque and because a lot of the protocol =
description is
>> about how to create and modify metadata records which only seems to =
apply
>> to the authoritative CDN.
>=20
> I attempted to create an extensible representation for metadata and a
> complete protocol for manipulating metadata, though, not all users of
> the interface will need all aspects.  Do you feel that the protocol is
> deficient for non-authoritative CDN use, or that authoritative CDNs do
> not need the metadata interface?

I think that we should stick to the scope of work we have been chartered =
to address, in the case of CDNI Metadata that is an interface that "will=20=

allow the CDNs to exchange content distribution metadata of inter-CDN=20
scope".

If the interface we specify is also usable in other scenarios then =
that's great but I don't think we should be actively looking to design =
an interface that is usable across a multitude of scenarios that are not =
in scope of CDNI because it's a distraction and likely to defocus our =
efforts. Our charter is not to define a new CP->CDN provisioning =
interface (they already exist) so we shouldn't be burning cycles working =
on things that are out of charter.

>> Agents:
>> The draft states that "The Agent object contains basic information =
for
>> authenticating entities which require access to Metadata." However it =
is
>> not clear to me how the concept of the Agent object fits within the
>> framework of CDNI as the details of the different Agents that may be =
able
>> to access metadata for a Content Service will be specific the to CDN
>> distributing that CDNI metadata. In other words I can't see why one =
would
>> need to distribute Agent details between CDNs over CDNI because the =
Agents
>> that are relevant for an uCDN are likely different to the Agents that =
a
>> relevant to a dCDN.
>=20
> It was not intended that agent information be distributed between
> CDNs, that was what I tried to convery with the text stating:=20
>  "Domains and Agents MAY be created as a part of an
>   off-line business negotiation process or as a part of the CDNI
>   bootstrapping process."
> Susan had a similar question about who would be responsible for the
> creation of agents.  I will clarify that in the next version.=20

If Agent information is not supposed to be distributed between CDNs then =
it is not of inter-CDN scope, is out of charter and therefore has no =
place in the context of CDNI IMO.

>> Later on the draft states:
>>   The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different =
Agents
>>   to retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
>>   Domain.  This is intended to allow CDNs to separate upstream =
Metadata
>>   from downstream Metadata (e.g., a uCDN content acquisition URL may
>>   point to a CP origin, however the content acquisition URL that the
>>   dCDN retrieves from the uCDN may point at a surrogate in the uCDN).
>>=20
>> This implies that the specification of Agents is really for imposing =
a
>> specific implementation on CDNs in how they manage metadata received =
from
>> a uCDN and how they expose that metadata to dCDNs. As the scope of =
CDNI
>> does not cover the internal workings or operation of a particular CDN =
it
>> would appear to me that imposing a particular internal mechanism for =
a
>> single CDN to manage & distribute CDNI metadata is inappropriate for =
the
>> CDNI WG.
>=20
> The point was that different consumers of the metadata interface may
> require different responses (or they may not).  Could that be left up
> to individual implementations?  Perhaps.  I am not sure what internal
> mechanism this imposes?  Are you saying that CDNI should only define
> the metadata semantics, and not the storage representation?  My goal
> was to define a generic representation, that could adapt to any=20
> semantics?  The agent is a part of that, though, in the degenerate
> case of a single agent, nothing is lost?

We should not be imposing storage representations. We don't need to =
include Agents in CDNI Metadata as they're not distributed between CDNs. =
If CDNs want to expose different Metadata to different dCDNs they can do =
that without the concept of an Agent.

>> Metadata:
>> I am a little confused about the desire to keep the actual =
specification
>> of metadata opaque. In order for a CDN to do anything useful with the =
CDNI
>> metadata it receives it needs to understand the syntax and semantics =
of
>> the metadata it receives, however the draft intentionally keeps both =
the
>> syntax and semantics for the metadata properties as well as any =
associated
>> values opaque to any CDN that receives or distributes the associated
>> metadata and says the associated "functionality SHOULD be agreed upon =
a
>> priori by CDN operators, however, these negotiations are beyond the =
scope
>> of CDNI."
>>=20
>> Of course, the syntax and semantics of the CDNI metadata could be =
agreed
>> out of band between the operators of the interconnected CDNs but =
doing
>> that for all metadata properties that would be needed to meet the
>> objectives of CDNI does not IMO provide any real advantage over what =
one
>> could do today by configuring individual services in different CDNs =
and
>> using CDNI request routing to redirect requests between those =
services in
>> each CDN.
>>=20
>> I can see that the meaning of the value for a specific metadata =
property
>> might need to be opaque because the value may be applied differently =
by
>> different CDNs (e.g. a more general "QoS" value that each CDN maps to =
an
>> appropriate DSCP value depending on how the underlying network has =
been
>> configured/deployed) but those are more likely to be exceptions =
rather
>> than the general rule and in any case the property itself would still =
need
>> to be specified & defined, so even with that in mind I'm struggling =
to see
>> the value in keeping all metadata opaque.
>=20
> My concern with defining all the semantics of metadata and designing a
> protocol around that, is you typically end up with a less extensible
> design.  I would not want to have to update the metadata interface rfc
> just to support a new piece of metadata in the future.  I am not =
saying
> that we should not define metadata, I just think it should be separate
> from the data model and the protocol, so I concentrated on those =
first.
> I definitely feel that we should define a base set of metadata that =
all
> CDNs should support.  I do not think the draft prevents that.

We agree on the fact that the CDNI metadata protocol specification =
doesn't need to define all possible properties/semantics for all =
possible delivery protocols and that properties and semantics for =
different delivery protocols can be defined in separate documents.

The CDNI metadata draft that Grant/David/I authored doesn't preclude =
semantics/properties being defined in other documents (and implies that =
is likely to be the case - see my response to Spencer just now). The =
base set of properties that are described in our draft could easily be =
broken out into a separate document if the consensus of the group is to =
do so. We included the base properties and interface specification in a =
single document so that readers could see how the interface could be =
constructed and applied using a set of common base semantics/properties =
for HTTP delivery supported by deployed CDNs today.

So if we put aside the question of where to define the actual properties =
and their semantics we're left with the data model and =
interface/protocol itself. So let's compare and contrast some key =
aspects of flexibility between the different proposals.

Cache-ability & Latency:
With the CDNI Metadata model we've proposed we think we've managed to =
define a data model that is as simple as possible but no simpler. It has =
a minimum number of data objects to allow objects that are likely to to =
be large or reused to be broken out into separate resources to provide =
efficiency and at the same time objects that may well have different =
cache-ability lifetimes can be broken out into separate resources. The =
interface specification allows inlining so that all related objects for =
a Site can be included in a single request/response so we provide the =
ability to have a simple implementation but also the flexibility to =
optimise the implementation to balance object size and cache-ability =
against number of requests/re-validations required.

By keeping your model basically flat you force an implementation to =
repeatedly have to transfer data that is common across a number of =
Hostnames/Domains (e.g. the definition of Locations) and you force the =
cache-ability for all data within a hostname/domain to be the same =
whether it is specific to a hostname/domain or common across multiple =
hostnames/domains. You therefore do not provide any ability for =
implementations to optimise based on their knowledge (or configured =
policies)  of the different types of data that combine to describe the =
CDNI Metadata for a Site/domain/hostname.

Self-description:
The links between objects in our model and the representations of the =
different objects in our model are self-describing through the use of =
relationships and media-types within the interface so a client can =
easily determine what data objects are being referenced and what data =
objects it is receiving and use the appropriate processing function to =
interpret their contents. It is easy to add new data objects to our =
model if required by defining new relationships and/or media types. In =
contrast your representations aren't self-describing and so force a =
tighter coupling between the client and server and they require some out =
of band process to ensure that coupling is maintained.

Bootstrapping & Coupling:
Similarly, with the CDNI Metadata interface/protocol we have proposed, =
the configuration/bootstrapping of the interface is as simple as =
possible but no simpler (a single URI) from which the dCDN can discover =
the location of all the CDNI metadata records they have access to. It =
also allows the uCDN to define the URI format (and hostname it's =
provided by) as they see fit. The uCDN has maximum flexibility to =
organise the different CDNI metadata objects and complete control over =
how they extend their implementation to support additional data objects =
or how they support mapping different dCDNs to different sets of (or =
versions of) CDNI metadata.

Your proposal imposes a greater configuration/bootstrapping burden on =
the dCDN as there is no way for it to discover the domains it has access =
to, it needs to know the URI/hostname of the uCDN's Metadata interface =
and the domains to query against that interface. The use of fixed paths =
in the URI that map to the different data object enforces rigidity on =
the uCDN's CDNI Metadata implementation (and tight coupling between the =
client and server) and means that if the uCDN wishes to extend its =
implementation to support additional objects it risks picking paths that =
may later clash with paths defined by newer versions of your protocol.

Taking the above factors into consideration I believe that our proposed =
data model and interface specification is flexible and extensible enough =
to address the current and future needs of CDNI.

Ben





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Hi,

On 18 Oct 2011, at 02:44, HeXiaoyan wrote:

> Hi Francois,
> >     * the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it =
matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path. =
Let's call this "resource sets".
>        * "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps =
it shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per =
"dCDN" basis.
> =20
> Are you proposing remove the =93hostname=94 object or keep it and =
adding =93resource sets=94 to =93Metadata=94?

I was proposing that we have a single object but just make it more =
flexible. In some cases, it will be identifying hostnames, but it some =
case it may identify some more granular set of resources (eg. a hostname =
+ part of the URI path).

> I think the =93hostname=94 object should be kept as sometimes the =
customer would possibly deploy a enforcement policy associated to a =
hostname , e.g. for hostname associated with  a set of web pages, CP may =
prefer DNS routing as HTTP redirection will cause cookie issues among =
others. Keeping hostname level can provide cp with this flexibility. =20

I agree we want to be able to do that in certain situations.

Cheers

Francois

> =20
> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Francois Le Faucheur
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:43 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> =20
> Hello Kevin,
> =20
> [with Individual hat on]
> =20
> A first set of high level questions:
> =20
> * directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update =
mechanism:
> Could you clarify which of the above operation you see possibly =
happening in which direction?
> For example, regarding update/removal, do you see:
>        *a)  the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to =
update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?
>        *b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN =
to update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some =
out-of-date metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).
> For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a =
GET towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET =
could possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by =
the dCDN?
> =20
> * in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly associated with =
a set of "hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of unmodified =
hostnames is used unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That =
can be the case in some deployment, but that may not always be the case. =
For example, when HTTP redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream CDN =
may want to modify (possibly hide) the actual content provider hostnames =
(and possibly part of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I =
believe this is mentioned in the framework).=20
> Would you consider modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for the =
fact that a domain may be "referenced" differently by some dCDNs than by =
the uCDN?
> I think it means:
>        * the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it =
matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path. =
Let's call this "resource sets".
>        * "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps =
it shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per =
"dCDN" basis.
> Would that work for you?
> =20
> * in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing =
"/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?
> =20
> =20
> Cheers
> =20
> Francois
> =20
>      =20
> =20
> =20
> On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
>  Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
>=20
>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
>=20
>  The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>  to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>  associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
> =20



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


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<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://1082/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">Hi,<div><br><div><div>On 18 Oct 2011, at 02:44, =
HeXiaoyan wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; =
"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi =
Francois,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 6pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -6pt; "><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible =
so it matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over =
hostname/path. Let's call this "resource =
sets".<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">* "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So =
perhaps it shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined =
on a per "dCDN" basis.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Are you proposing remove the =93hostname=94 object =
or keep it and adding =93resource sets=94 to =
=93Metadata=94?</span></div></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>I was proposing that we have a single object but just make it more =
flexible. In some cases, it will be identifying hostnames, but it some =
case it may identify some more granular set of resources (eg. a hostname =
+ part of the URI path).</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; =
"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I think the =93hostname=94 object should be kept as =
sometimes the customer would possibly deploy a enforcement policy =
associated to a hostname , e.g. for hostname associated with &nbsp;a set =
of web pages, CP may prefer DNS routing as HTTP redirection will cause =
cookie issues among others. Keeping hostname level can provide cp with =
this flexibility. =
&nbsp;</span></div></div></div></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I =
agree we want to be able to do that in certain =
situations.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Franc=
ois</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; =
"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Best Regards</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Xiaoyan(Susan) He</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: none; =
border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Francois Le =
Faucheur<br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, October 18, 2011 =
3:43 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Kevin J =
Ma<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata =
Interface<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Kevin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">[with Individual hat =
on]<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">A first set of high level =
questions:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">* directionality of metadata =
creation/retrieval/removal/update =
mechanism:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Could you clarify which of the above operation you see =
possibly happening in which =
direction?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For example, regarding update/removal,&nbsp;do you =
see:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">*a)&nbsp;&nbsp;the POST possibly being issued towards the =
uCDN to update/remove some metadata in the uCDN =
repository?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">*b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards =
the dCDN to update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after =
some out-of-date metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from =
uCDN).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For =
example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a GET =
towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET could =
possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the =
dCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">* in your CDNI metadata model, a =
"domain" is directly associated with a set of "hostnames". So this =
assumes that the same set of unmodified hostnames is used unmodified =
everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That can be the case in some =
deployment, but that may not always be the case. For example, when HTTP =
redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream CDN may want to modify =
(possibly hide) the actual content provider hostnames (and possibly part =
of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I believe this is mentioned =
in the framework).&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Would you consider modifying your =
proposed CDNI model to allow for the fact that a domain may be =
"referenced" differently by some dCDNs than by the =
uCDN?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I =
think it means:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible =
so it matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over =
hostname/path. Let's call this "resource =
sets".<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">* "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So =
perhaps it shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined =
on a per "dCDN" basis.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Would that work for =
you?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">* in section&nbsp;3.3.3, you have =
a couple of examples showing "/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say =
"/CDNI/MI/metadata"?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Francois<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-tab-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J =
Ma wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi all,<br><br>&nbsp;Just uploaded =
a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and =
API:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt"=
 style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt</a><br=
><br>&nbsp;The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata =
representation<br>&nbsp;to support opaque metadata and addresses some of =
the security issues<br>&nbsp;associated with metadata retrieval. =
&nbsp;Comments welcome.<br><br>thanx.<br><br>-- &nbsp;Kevin J. =
Ma<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></span></bl=
ockquote></div><br><div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" =
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apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CB778A.6ECCAA50"></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
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class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
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"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
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font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 18 07:26:50 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 10:26:35 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Hi Francois,

  comments inline:

> From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:43 PM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hello Kevin,
>=20
> [with Individual hat on]
>=20
> A first set of high level questions:
>=20
> * directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update mechanism:
> Could you clarify which of the above operation you see possibly happening
> in which direction?
> For example, regarding update/removal, do you see:
> 	*a)  the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to
> update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?
> 	*b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN to
> update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some out-of-dat=
e
> metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).
> For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a GET
> towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET could
> possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the dCDN?

I think POSTs make the most sense going from upstream to downstream.
The agent was intended to moderate this, since any given pair of CDNs
could be both a uCDN and a dCDN for each other in different domains.

I see no reason why GETs could not go in both directions.  I can see a
case where upstream entities would want to verify downstream entities.

> * in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly associated with a
> set of "hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of unmodified
> hostnames is used unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. That
> can be the case in some deployment, but that may not always be the case.
> For example, when HTTP redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream CDN
> may want to modify (possibly hide) the actual content provider hostnames
> (and possibly part of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I believe
> this is mentioned in the framework).

I was thinking (though it is not noted in the document) that hostname
lists could be different in different dCDNs.  What is not entirely
clear to me is how metadata would get set across cascaded CDNs,
i.e., if the CP contracts CDN-A, and CDN-A makes a deal with CDN-B,
and CDN-B makes a deal with CDN-C, does the CP or CDN-A know about
CDN-C and is the CP or CDN-A responsible configuring metadata on
CDN-C?  Or, is CDN metadata only configured by the most immediate
uCDN (or the CP), i.e., only CDN-B (or the CP) will know the values of
metadata in CDN-C?

> Would you consider modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for the
> fact that a domain may be "referenced" differently by some dCDNs than by
> the uCDN?
> I think it means:
> 	* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it
> matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over hostname/path.
> Let's call this "resource sets".
> 	* "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it
> shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per
> "dCDN" basis.
> Would that work for you?

Would the goal be to use the entire hostname/uri as a single combined
key?  I do not have a problem with merging them if we think that it
would be useful.

> * in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing
> "/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?

Yep.  Those are cut and paste errors, good catch!  I will fix those.

thanx!

--  Kevin J. Ma
=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Francois
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
>  Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
>=20
>    http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
>=20
>  The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>  to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>  associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 18 07:27:55 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 10:27:40 -0400
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Hi Susan,

  inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:27 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Kevin,
> > Adding the one-to-many relationship
> > between the hostname and metadata tables would cause duplicate entries
> > in the metadata table (one per hostname)?
> Sorry, after reading the draft again, I have to say my intention was that
> the relationship between the Hostname and Metadata object should be a
> one-to-zero or one-to-one relation like the figure below. All metadata
> associated with one hostname or one url prefix which at least containing =
a
> hostname should be grouped in one Metadata object (i.e. explicitly define
> all the properties of each hostname in one Metadata object). I think this
> is
> more straight-forward and consistent with the existing today CDN metadata
> model.  Is it possible for you to consider modifying your proposal on
> this?

Francois had a similar comment.  One resolution would be to move the hostna=
me
into the metadata object and use it as part of the URI lookup?  Would that
make more sense?

>    +----------+
>   |        | 1
>   | Agent   +---------------------------+
>   |        |                |
>   +----+-----+                  |
>        | 1..*                |
>        |                    |
>        | 1                   | 1
>    +----+-----+             +----+-----+
>   |         |          |          |
>   | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
>   |         |          |          |
>    +----+-----+             +-----+----+
>        | 1                   |
>        |                     |
>        | 1..*                 |
>    +----+-----+                 |
>   |         |    1   0..1     |
>   | Hostname +----------------------------+
>   |         |
>    +----------+
>=20
> When reading through the examples in section 3.3.3, I found no agent
> id/name
> is conveyed in the metadata retrieval message, I remember we discussed
> that
> for different agent the upCDN may response with different value of a
> metadata, would you double check that?
> Thanks.

In the examples, I used HTTP basic auth, so the agent name/password is
encoded in the Authorization header.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Best Regards
> Xiaoyan(Susan) He
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:26 AM
> To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>=20
> Hi Susan,
>=20
>   ok, I think I understand now.  In writing the draft, I was not sure if
>   this would be a typical use case.  Adding the one-to-many relationship
>   between the hostname and metadata tables would cause duplicate entries
>   in the metadata table (one per hostname)?  One alternative would be to
>   use a many-to-many relationship instead, though verification of domain
>   constraints on creation becomes more complex.  In general, if we think
>   that this flexibility is required, I have no issue with making changes
>   to the model, however, if it is unlikely to be used, I would favor the
>   simpler approach.
>=20
>   Is a one-to-many relationship between the hostname and metadata tables
>   that much better than removing the hostname table completely (and just
>   adding a hostname field to the domain, i.e., the degenerate case where
>   each domain only has one hostname)?  That is essentially what it would
>   be doing?
>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:14 AM
> > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Kevin,
> > I share the view that the concept of Domain is useful, my suggestion is
> > linking metadata to Hostname and keep the Domain,
> > i.e. something like the figure below. Benefit is metadata associated
> with
> > one custormer can be grouped even different
> > Hostnames belong the Domain has different metadata value.
> >
> >
> >   +----------+
> >  |        | 1
> >  | Agent   +---------------------------+
> >  |        |                |
> >  +----+-----+                  |
> >       | 1..*                |
> >       |                    |
> >       | 1                   | 1
> >   +----+-----+             +----+-----+
> >  |         |          |          |
> >  | Domain  |          |  Metadata |
> >  |         |          |          |
> >   +----+-----+             +-----+----+
> >       | 1                   |
> >       |                     |
> >       | 1..*                 |
> >   +----+-----+                 |
> >  |         |    1   0..*     |
> >  | Hostname +----------------------------+
> >  |         |
> >   +----------+
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:26 PM
> > To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> >
> > Hi Susan,
> >
> >   responses inline:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 5:35 AM
> > > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi Kevin,
> > > Thanks for the response. Some further concern,
> > > - I don't quite understand the restriction that require metadata of
> all
> > > hostnames in one Domain have same value. The case exist that for a
> > > specific
> > > metadata different hostnames often have different value. Compare with
> > > creating multiple Domains with less hostname sharing the same
> metadata,
> > I
> > > think link metadata to hostname not Domain is more simpler.
> >
> > From a conceptual perspective, it could be argued that the domain
> > object is extraneous.  As an implementation detail, however, the
> > multi-table joins, imo, were simplified by having a central object
> > to define the domain, so I added one.  From an operator perspective,
> > having a way to group multiple hostnames also seems useful, even
> > though, in the degenerate case, you could just have one hostname per
> > domain.  If there is a concensus view that the domain is unnecessary,
> > it could be removed.
> >
> > > -I interpret the role of the Agent object is to identify entities
> > > communicated (correct me if I'm wrong), other interfaces in CDNI e.g.
> > > Logging interface needs such an parameter as well, a universal
> solution
> > > for
> > > that would be good, do you think the Agent object introduced in your
> > draft
> > > could also be applicable for other interfaces?
> >
> > I agree that the other interfaces (control/logging) will require some
> > type of authentication and security.  The agent concept could certainly
> > be extended to other interfaces, and I agree that it would be good to
> > have the same solution for all interfaces
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kevin J Ma [mailto:kevin.ma@azukisystems.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:30 PM
> > > To: HeXiaoyan; cdni@ietf.org
> > > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > >
> > > Hi Susan,
> > >
> > >   thanx for the comments, responses inline:
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: HeXiaoyan [mailto:hexiaoyan@huawei.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:28 AM
> > > > To: Kevin J Ma; cdni@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > > >
> > > > Hi Kevin,
> > > > Some quick questions and comments on this draft,
> > > > >The Metadata objects are each associated with a URI within the
> Domain
> > > and
> > > > accessible through any of the Hostnames...
> > > > - Could you further explain or give an example how a metadata is
> > > accessed
> > > > by
> > > > a Hostname within the Domain? And a further question is how the dat=
a
> > > model
> > > > works if a metadata is only associated with a specific Hostname
> within
> > > one
> > > > Doman?
> > >
> > > I was assuming that metadata would be valid for all hostnames.  If a
> > > hostname
> > > needed separate metadata, a new domain would be required.  I was
> > thinking
> > > of
> > > hostname as a first level restriction.  My implementation does
> something
> > > along
> > > the lines of the following (where hostname is checked before metadata
> > > lookup):
> > >
> > >   domain =3D get_param_from_query_string(getenv("QUERY_STRING"),
> "domain")
> > >   if (!db_verify_hostname_for_domain(getenv("SERVER_NAME"), domain))
> > >     return error
> > >   metadata =3D
> db_get_metadata_by_uri_domain_agent(getenv("REQUEST_URI"),
> > >                                                  domain,
> > > getenv("REMOTE_USER"))
> > >   xml =3D generate_xml_for_metadata(metadata)
> > >   return xml
> > >
> > > > - The relationship between Agent objects and Metadata objects is a
> > > > one-to-one relationship, does this mean one agent can only access
> one
> > > > Metadata within one Domain?
> > >
> > > That is a typo in the doc, good catch, thanx!  It should be one to
> many.
> > > Each metadata must be associated with a single agent, but an agent ca=
n
> > be
> > > associated with multiple metadata.  Agent-1 could have metadatas A, B=
,
> > and
> > > C, while agent-2 could have a separate value for metadatas A and B,
> and
> > > also
> > > have its own metadata D (that agent-1 does not have access to)
> > >
> > > > > The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different
> Agents
> > > to
> > > > retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
> > Domain.
> > > > - Don't understand why each Metadata object needs to be bind with a=
n
> > > Agent
> > > > explicitly, IMO, whether to return different value to different
> Agents
> > > is
> > > > an
> > > > inside process of the upCDN, what downCDN needs to do is just
> transmit
> > > its
> > > > identifier to the upCDN when retrieve a Metadata.
> > >
> > > I think the fact that a uCDN would want/need to give out different
> > values
> > > to
> > > different dCDNs requires that there be a way to represent and store
> that
> > > information.  Having it explicitly in the model, i think, simplifies
> the
> > > implementation and guarantees that all implementation give this issue
> > > proper
> > > consideration.
> > >
> > > > - Which entity is responsible for creating the Agent objects within
> > one
> > > > Domain? Does the CP can 'see' the downCDNs and creates correspondin=
g
> > > Agent
> > > > objects and other CDNs on the way just transmitted it or each upCDN
> > > > located
> > > > in the cascaded path creates a Agent object for each its downCDN?
> > >
> > > This is a good question.  Different agents would need to be create by
> > > different
> > > entities, as you mention.  I would expect each CDN to create agents t=
o
> > > represent
> > > those (outside that CDN) who need access to the metadata interface.
> > >
> > > thanx!
> > >
> > > --  Kevin J. Ma
> > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Best Regards
> > > > Xiaoyan(Susan) He
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal=
f
> > Of
> > > > Kevin J Ma
> > > > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 1:21 PM
> > > > To: cdni@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > >   Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
> > > >
> > > >     http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-
> 00.txt
> > > >
> > > >   The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata
> representation
> > > >   to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security
> issues
> > > >   associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
> > > >
> > > > thanx.
> > > >
> > > > --  Kevin J. Ma
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > CDNi mailing list
> > > > CDNi@ietf.org
> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Tue Oct 18 09:03:54 2011
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To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:03:38 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Ben,

  inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:50 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
>=20
> Kevin,
>=20
> Please see inline.
>=20
> On 17 Oct 2011, at 19:26, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf O=
f
> >> Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> I read draft-ma-cdni-metadata but I am struggling a little to
> understand
> >> how it fits into the overall framework of CDNI.
> >>
> >> When I read the draft it appeared to me to be aimed more at a Content
> >> Provider or CDN Provider configuring the authoritative CDN rather that
> for
> >> Metadata exchange between CDNs because of its use of Agents, the fact
> it
> >> keeps all metadata opaque and because a lot of the protocol descriptio=
n
> is
> >> about how to create and modify metadata records which only seems to
> apply
> >> to the authoritative CDN.
> >
> > I attempted to create an extensible representation for metadata and a
> > complete protocol for manipulating metadata, though, not all users of
> > the interface will need all aspects.  Do you feel that the protocol is
> > deficient for non-authoritative CDN use, or that authoritative CDNs do
> > not need the metadata interface?
>=20
> I think that we should stick to the scope of work we have been chartered
> to address, in the case of CDNI Metadata that is an interface that "will
> allow the CDNs to exchange content distribution metadata of inter-CDN
> scope".
>=20
> If the interface we specify is also usable in other scenarios then that's
> great but I don't think we should be actively looking to design an
> interface that is usable across a multitude of scenarios that are not in
> scope of CDNI because it's a distraction and likely to defocus our
> efforts. Our charter is not to define a new CP->CDN provisioning interfac=
e
> (they already exist) so we shouldn't be burning cycles working on things
> that are out of charter.

I personally do not see a difference between uCDN->dCDN and CP->uCDN.
If in supporting uCDN->dCDN you get CP->uCDN, I think that is a bonus.
I do not think we should ignore uCDN->dCDN just because it might be
useful to CPs.  Is the argument that a uCDN should never need to push
metadata to a dCDN and therefore we do not need uCDN->dCDN support?

> >> Agents:
> >> The draft states that "The Agent object contains basic information for
> >> authenticating entities which require access to Metadata." However it
> is
> >> not clear to me how the concept of the Agent object fits within the
> >> framework of CDNI as the details of the different Agents that may be
> able
> >> to access metadata for a Content Service will be specific the to CDN
> >> distributing that CDNI metadata. In other words I can't see why one
> would
> >> need to distribute Agent details between CDNs over CDNI because the
> Agents
> >> that are relevant for an uCDN are likely different to the Agents that =
a
> >> relevant to a dCDN.
> >
> > It was not intended that agent information be distributed between
> > CDNs, that was what I tried to convery with the text stating:
> >  "Domains and Agents MAY be created as a part of an
> >   off-line business negotiation process or as a part of the CDNI
> >   bootstrapping process."
> > Susan had a similar question about who would be responsible for the
> > creation of agents.  I will clarify that in the next version.
>=20
> If Agent information is not supposed to be distributed between CDNs then
> it is not of inter-CDN scope, is out of charter and therefore has no plac=
e
> in the context of CDNI IMO.
>=20
> >> Later on the draft states:
> >>   The association of each Metadata to an Agent allows different Agents
> >>   to retrieve different Metadata values for a given URI in the given
> >>   Domain.  This is intended to allow CDNs to separate upstream Metadat=
a
> >>   from downstream Metadata (e.g., a uCDN content acquisition URL may
> >>   point to a CP origin, however the content acquisition URL that the
> >>   dCDN retrieves from the uCDN may point at a surrogate in the uCDN).
> >>
> >> This implies that the specification of Agents is really for imposing a
> >> specific implementation on CDNs in how they manage metadata received
> from
> >> a uCDN and how they expose that metadata to dCDNs. As the scope of CDN=
I
> >> does not cover the internal workings or operation of a particular CDN
> it
> >> would appear to me that imposing a particular internal mechanism for a
> >> single CDN to manage & distribute CDNI metadata is inappropriate for
> the
> >> CDNI WG.
> >
> > The point was that different consumers of the metadata interface may
> > require different responses (or they may not).  Could that be left up
> > to individual implementations?  Perhaps.  I am not sure what internal
> > mechanism this imposes?  Are you saying that CDNI should only define
> > the metadata semantics, and not the storage representation?  My goal
> > was to define a generic representation, that could adapt to any
> > semantics?  The agent is a part of that, though, in the degenerate
> > case of a single agent, nothing is lost?
>=20
> We should not be imposing storage representations. We don't need to
> include Agents in CDNI Metadata as they're not distributed between CDNs.
> If CDNs want to expose different Metadata to different dCDNs they can do
> that without the concept of an Agent.
>=20
> >> Metadata:
> >> I am a little confused about the desire to keep the actual
> specification
> >> of metadata opaque. In order for a CDN to do anything useful with the
> CDNI
> >> metadata it receives it needs to understand the syntax and semantics o=
f
> >> the metadata it receives, however the draft intentionally keeps both
> the
> >> syntax and semantics for the metadata properties as well as any
> associated
> >> values opaque to any CDN that receives or distributes the associated
> >> metadata and says the associated "functionality SHOULD be agreed upon =
a
> >> priori by CDN operators, however, these negotiations are beyond the
> scope
> >> of CDNI."
> >>
> >> Of course, the syntax and semantics of the CDNI metadata could be
> agreed
> >> out of band between the operators of the interconnected CDNs but doing
> >> that for all metadata properties that would be needed to meet the
> >> objectives of CDNI does not IMO provide any real advantage over what
> one
> >> could do today by configuring individual services in different CDNs an=
d
> >> using CDNI request routing to redirect requests between those services
> in
> >> each CDN.
> >>
> >> I can see that the meaning of the value for a specific metadata
> property
> >> might need to be opaque because the value may be applied differently b=
y
> >> different CDNs (e.g. a more general "QoS" value that each CDN maps to
> an
> >> appropriate DSCP value depending on how the underlying network has bee=
n
> >> configured/deployed) but those are more likely to be exceptions rather
> >> than the general rule and in any case the property itself would still
> need
> >> to be specified & defined, so even with that in mind I'm struggling to
> see
> >> the value in keeping all metadata opaque.
> >
> > My concern with defining all the semantics of metadata and designing a
> > protocol around that, is you typically end up with a less extensible
> > design.  I would not want to have to update the metadata interface rfc
> > just to support a new piece of metadata in the future.  I am not saying
> > that we should not define metadata, I just think it should be separate
> > from the data model and the protocol, so I concentrated on those first.
> > I definitely feel that we should define a base set of metadata that all
> > CDNs should support.  I do not think the draft prevents that.
>=20
> We agree on the fact that the CDNI metadata protocol specification doesn'=
t
> need to define all possible properties/semantics for all possible deliver=
y
> protocols and that properties and semantics for different delivery
> protocols can be defined in separate documents.
>=20
> The CDNI metadata draft that Grant/David/I authored doesn't preclude
> semantics/properties being defined in other documents (and implies that i=
s
> likely to be the case - see my response to Spencer just now). The base se=
t
> of properties that are described in our draft could easily be broken out
> into a separate document if the consensus of the group is to do so. We
> included the base properties and interface specification in a single
> document so that readers could see how the interface could be constructed
> and applied using a set of common base semantics/properties for HTTP
> delivery supported by deployed CDNs today.
>=20
> So if we put aside the question of where to define the actual properties
> and their semantics we're left with the data model and interface/protocol
> itself. So let's compare and contrast some key aspects of flexibility
> between the different proposals.
>=20
> Cache-ability & Latency:
> With the CDNI Metadata model we've proposed we think we've managed to
> define a data model that is as simple as possible but no simpler. It has =
a
> minimum number of data objects to allow objects that are likely to to be
> large or reused to be broken out into separate resources to provide
> efficiency and at the same time objects that may well have different
> cache-ability lifetimes can be broken out into separate resources. The
> interface specification allows inlining so that all related objects for a
> Site can be included in a single request/response so we provide the
> ability to have a simple implementation but also the flexibility to
> optimise the implementation to balance object size and cache-ability
> against number of requests/re-validations required.

The protocol in my draft also supports bulk retrieval, but if there is
a nuance of inlining that is missing, I could certainly look at it.
Though I did not address cacheability, I think it could be applied at
the bulk response level as you describe?

> By keeping your model basically flat you force an implementation to
> repeatedly have to transfer data that is common across a number of
> Hostnames/Domains (e.g. the definition of Locations) and you force the
> cache-ability for all data within a hostname/domain to be the same whethe=
r
> it is specific to a hostname/domain or common across multiple
> hostnames/domains. You therefore do not provide any ability for
> implementations to optimise based on their knowledge (or configured
> policies)  of the different types of data that combine to describe the
> CDNI Metadata for a Site/domain/hostname.
>=20
> Self-description:
> The links between objects in our model and the representations of the
> different objects in our model are self-describing through the use of
> relationships and media-types within the interface so a client can easily
> determine what data objects are being referenced and what data objects it
> is receiving and use the appropriate processing function to interpret
> their contents. It is easy to add new data objects to our model if
> required by defining new relationships and/or media types. In contrast
> your representations aren't self-describing and so force a tighter
> coupling between the client and server and they require some out of band
> process to ensure that coupling is maintained.

The individual pieces of metadata have a defined type.  If the CDN
supports a given piece of metadata, it will know what the type is.  The
metadata distribution protocol, imo, does not need to know the type
as long as the CDN who receives the metadata understands it?  Knowing
the type is not necessarily enough information to know what to do with
it, the full definition of the metadata is required either way?

> Bootstrapping & Coupling:
> Similarly, with the CDNI Metadata interface/protocol we have proposed, th=
e
> configuration/bootstrapping of the interface is as simple as possible but
> no simpler (a single URI) from which the dCDN can discover the location o=
f
> all the CDNI metadata records they have access to. It also allows the uCD=
N
> to define the URI format (and hostname it's provided by) as they see fit.
> The uCDN has maximum flexibility to organise the different CDNI metadata
> objects and complete control over how they extend their implementation to
> support additional data objects or how they support mapping different
> dCDNs to different sets of (or versions of) CDNI metadata.
>=20
> Your proposal imposes a greater configuration/bootstrapping burden on the
> dCDN as there is no way for it to discover the domains it has access to,
> it needs to know the URI/hostname of the uCDN's Metadata interface and th=
e
> domains to query against that interface. The use of fixed paths in the UR=
I
> that map to the different data object enforces rigidity on the uCDN's CDN=
I
> Metadata implementation (and tight coupling between the client and server=
)
> and means that if the uCDN wishes to extend its implementation to support
> additional objects it risks picking paths that may later clash with paths
> defined by newer versions of your protocol.

Your SiteFeed object provides Site information (which is fairly analogous
to domain information).  Domain information could also be put into a feed,=
=20
however, I assume that business processes drive what goes into the SiteFeed=
.
Is the SiteFeed configured offline, as part of some business process?
If so, then is it better to configure Site information as a feed in
the uCDN, or as domains in the dCDN.  I do not have a strong feeling
either way, but I do not see our schemes as being so different.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Taking the above factors into consideration I believe that our proposed
> data model and interface specification is flexible and extensible enough
> to address the current and future needs of CDNI.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20


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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Proposal for a CDNI Metadata model & interface
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On 18 Oct 2011, at 01:00, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

> Francois,
>=20
> Good question, see below.
>=20
> On 17 Oct 2011, at 21:10, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:
>> So to deal with metadata changes/invalidation reactively, the =
uCDN/dCDN would play with TTL and conditional gets.
>> So we end up with deployment trade-offs requiring tuning between =
reactivity and revalidation load.
>> Support of update/removal in the CDNI interface would allow to ensure =
high reactivity for the important changes (eg immediately stop serving =
content to a given region) while setting TTLs higher to ensure low =
revalidation load.
>> Is your motivation to exclude support for update/removal to keep =
things as simple as possible so the group can define a minimum solution =
asap, or do you think update/removal won't be needed at all even if we =
picture large scale deployments.
>=20
> Neither. Although we don't say so explicitly in the draft our thinking =
was to model explicit CDNI Metadata invalidation/removal in the same =
manner as explicit invalidation/removal of actual content and have that =
performed via a request over the CDNI Control interface

That can work also. Regardless of the actual approach to do so, there =
seems to be agreement that we do need to be able to trigger =
"delete/purge" metadata. Good.
Thanks
Francois

> rather than having two separate approaches - one for CDNI metadata and =
a different one for the content itself.
>=20
> Ben
>=20



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


 Think before you print.

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br><div><div>On 18 Oct 2011, at 01:00, Ben Niven-Jenkins =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Francois,<br><br>Good question, see below.<br><br>On =
17 Oct 2011, at 21:10, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">So to deal with metadata changes/invalidation reactively, =
the uCDN/dCDN would play with TTL and conditional =
gets.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So we end up with =
deployment trade-offs requiring tuning between reactivity and =
revalidation load.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Support of =
update/removal in the CDNI interface would allow to ensure high =
reactivity for the important changes (eg immediately stop serving =
content to a given region) while setting TTLs higher to ensure low =
revalidation load.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Is your =
motivation to exclude support for update/removal to keep things as =
simple as possible so the group can define a minimum solution asap, or =
do you think update/removal won't be needed at all even if we picture =
large scale deployments.<br></blockquote><br>Neither. Although we don't =
say so explicitly in the draft our thinking was to model explicit CDNI =
Metadata invalidation/removal in the same manner as explicit =
invalidation/removal of actual content and have that performed via a =
request over the CDNI Control interface =
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That can work also. Regardless of =
the actual approach to do so, there seems to be agreement that we do =
need to be able to trigger "delete/purge" metadata. =
Good.</div><div>Thanks</div><div>Francois</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>rather than having two separate approaches - one for =
CDNI metadata and a different one for the content =
itself.<br><br>Ben<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" =
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apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CB778A.6ECCAA50"></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; "><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
-webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; =
background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
-webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; =
background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><span></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height=3D"19" width=3D"18" =
id=3D"a60fc2ff-dc07-4f90-a6f1-9597d7c2aecc" apple-width=3D"yes" =
apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:EA80D384-C41E-4B98-81FE-095B29784C9D@cisco.com"></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; "><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"400" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; =
padding-left: 24px; padding-right: 24px; padding-top: 0px; =
padding-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 153, 0); ">&nbsp;Think before you =
print.</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10px; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); padding-left: =
24px; padding-right: 24px; padding-top: 7px; padding-bottom: 6px; =
"><br>This email may contain confidential and privileged material for =
the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or =
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended =
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact =
the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this =
message.<br><br>Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 =
limit=E9e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot =
7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS =
Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel =
Givone.<br><br>For corporate legal information go to:<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html=
">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><b=
r><br></td></tr></tbody></table></span></span>

=
</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></span></div></div><br></body></ht=
ml>=

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From Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu  Wed Oct 19 08:53:12 2011
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From: Jan Seedorf <Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu>
To: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Draft submitted on ALTO for CDNi request routing
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Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 15:52:58 +0000
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Subject: [CDNi] Draft submitted on ALTO for CDNi request routing
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CDNi folks, ALTO folks,

I have just submitted a new draft which discusses how ALTO could help in CD=
Ni request routing:

Abstract:
"... This document focusses on the Request Routing Interface of CDNi, and m=
ore specifically on how the solutions currently being defined in the Applic=
ation Layer Traffic Optimization (ALTO) WG can improve CDNi request routing=
.  The overall intention behind this document is to foster discussions (in =
the CDNi as well as in the ALTO WG) regarding a) if, b) how, and c) under w=
hat conditions ALTO can be useful to optimize CDNi request routing.  As bas=
is for this discussion, this document provides concrete examples of how ALT=
O can be integrated within CDNi request routing.  The examples in this   do=
cument are based on the use cases and examples currently being discussed in=
 the CDNi WG."

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00.txt

Comments (from CDNi WG and ALTO WG) are welcome,


-          Jan

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">CDNi folks, ALTO folks,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I have just submitted a new draft which discusse=
s how ALTO could help in CDNi request routing:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Abstract:
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;&#8230; This document focusses on the Req=
uest Routing Interface of CDNi, and more specifically on how the solutions
 currently being defined in the Application Layer Traffic Optimization (ALT=
O) WG can improve CDNi request routing.&nbsp; The overall intention behind =
this document is to foster discussions (in the CDNi as well as in the ALTO =
WG) regarding a) if, b) how, and c) under
 what conditions ALTO can be useful to optimize CDNi request routing.&nbsp;=
 As basis for this discussion, this document provides concrete examples of =
how ALTO can be integrated within CDNi request routing.&nbsp; The examples =
in this&nbsp; &nbsp;document are based on the use cases
 and examples currently being discussed in the CDNi WG.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-seedorf-=
alto-for-cdni-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00=
.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Comments (from CDNi WG and ALTO WG) are welcome,=
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:20.25pt;text-indent:-.25=
in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<font size=3D"1" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jan<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
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Hi again,

Thanks for the responses. See embedded below:

On 18 Oct 2011, at 07:26, Kevin J Ma wrote:

> Hi Francois,
>=20
>  comments inline:
>=20
>> From: Francois Le Faucheur [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:43 PM
>> To: Kevin J Ma
>> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
>>=20
>> Hello Kevin,
>>=20
>> [with Individual hat on]
>>=20
>> A first set of high level questions:
>>=20
>> * directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update =
mechanism:
>> Could you clarify which of the above operation you see possibly =
happening
>> in which direction?
>> For example, regarding update/removal, do you see:
>> 	*a)  the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN to
>> update/remove some metadata in the uCDN repository?
>> 	*b) the POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN =
to
>> update/remove some metadata in the dCDN repository (after some =
out-of-date
>> metadata had been retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).
>> For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN to issue a =
GET
>> towards the uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET =
could
>> possibly be also issued by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the =
dCDN?
>=20
> I think POSTs make the most sense going from upstream to downstream.
> The agent was intended to moderate this, since any given pair of CDNs
> could be both a uCDN and a dCDN for each other in different domains.

Do we agree POST would normally be dis-allowed in dCDN-uCDN direction =
(regardless of whether this is "enforced" by the Agent or something =
else)?

Regarding the use of POST for metadata creation, are you proposing it so =
it is used by the uCDN to "create" metadata in the dCDN (ie to =
pre-populate metadata in the dCDN) or are you proposing it so it is used =
by say a CP to "create" the metadata in the uCDN that will then be =
"pulled" by dCDN?
(for metadata pre-positioning in dCDN, I had been thinking more of an =
approach where the uCDN would issue a trigger instructing the dCDN to =
GET the corresponding metadata)

>=20
> I see no reason why GETs could not go in both directions.  I can see a
> case where upstream entities would want to verify downstream entities.

Agreed.

In any case, I would suggest that you discuss/document directionality in =
upcoming versions, possibly though some table capturing all the possible =
cases.

>=20
>> * in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly associated with =
a
>> set of "hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of unmodified
>> hostnames is used unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. =
That
>> can be the case in some deployment, but that may not always be the =
case.
>> For example, when HTTP redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream =
CDN
>> may want to modify (possibly hide) the actual content provider =
hostnames
>> (and possibly part of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I =
believe
>> this is mentioned in the framework).
>=20
> I was thinking (though it is not noted in the document) that hostname
> lists could be different in different dCDNs.  What is not entirely
> clear to me is how metadata would get set across cascaded CDNs,
> i.e., if the CP contracts CDN-A, and CDN-A makes a deal with CDN-B,
> and CDN-B makes a deal with CDN-C, does the CP or CDN-A know about
> CDN-C and is the CP or CDN-A responsible configuring metadata on
> CDN-C?  Or, is CDN metadata only configured by the most immediate
> uCDN (or the CP), i.e., only CDN-B (or the CP) will know the values of
> metadata in CDN-C?

In my opinion, everything would typically operate as a chain, because =
the typical relationships between entities will be as a chain:
CP knows CDN-A, CDN-A knows CDN-B, CDN-B knows CDN-C.
So:
	* CDN-A would be responsible for crafting the metadata that will =
be pulled by CDN-B. CDN-A may elect to allow CP to directly populate =
(some/all) these metadata (so it does correctly reflect its policy).
	* CDN-B would then be responsible for crafting the metadata that =
will be pulled by CDN-C. CDN-B may elect to allow CDN-A to directly =
populate (some/all) these metadata (so it does correctly reflect its =
policy).
	* etc.

In any case, do you agree with the idea of having the =
hostname/resource-sets be tied to the Agent (so they can be different on =
a per CDN basis)?

>=20
>> Would you consider modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for =
the
>> fact that a domain may be "referenced" differently by some dCDNs than =
by
>> the uCDN?
>> I think it means:
>> 	* the concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so it
>> matches not just on hostnames but on pattern match over =
hostname/path.
>> Let's call this "resource sets".
>> 	* "resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps it
>> shoudl be folded inside your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a per
>> "dCDN" basis.
>> Would that work for you?
>=20
> Would the goal be to use the entire hostname/uri as a single combined
> key?  I do not have a problem with merging them if we think that it
> would be useful.

I do think it is useful to associate to a domain something that is more =
flexible than hostname. For example, a hostname+beginning-of-path.
In some cases, it will just be hostnames. In some cases, it will be =
finer-grain

Thanks

Francois

>=20
>> * in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples showing
>> "/CDNI/MI/domain". Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?
>=20
> Yep.  Those are cut and paste errors, good catch!  I will fix those.
>=20
> thanx!
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
>> Cheers
>>=20
>> Francois
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 6 Oct 2011, at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>> Hi all,
>>=20
>> Just uploaded a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and API:
>>=20
>>   http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt
>>=20
>> The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata representation
>> to support opaque metadata and addresses some of the security issues
>> associated with metadata retrieval.  Comments welcome.
>>=20
>> thanx.
>>=20
>> --  Kevin J. Ma
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>=20



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi =
again,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the responses. See embedded =
below:</div><div><br><div><div>On 18 Oct 2011, at 07:26, Kevin J Ma =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Hi Francois,<br><br> &nbsp;comments =
inline:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: Francois Le Faucheur =
[mailto:flefauch@cisco.com]<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:43 =
PM<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: Kevin J =
Ma<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: Francois Le Faucheur; =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata =
Interface<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Hello =
Kevin,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">[with =
Individual hat on]<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">A first set of =
high level questions:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">* =
directionality of metadata creation/retrieval/removal/update =
mechanism:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Could you clarify =
which of the above operation you see possibly =
happening<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">in which =
direction?<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">For example, =
regarding update/removal, do you see:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>*a) &nbsp;the POST possibly being issued towards the uCDN =
to<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">update/remove some metadata =
in the uCDN repository?<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>*b) the =
POST possibly being issued by the uCDN towards the dCDN =
to<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">update/remove some metadata =
in the dCDN repository (after some =
out-of-date<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">metadata had been =
retrieved by dCDN from uCDN).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For example, regarding retrieval, clearly we want the dCDN =
to issue a GET<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">towards the =
uCDN to acquire metadata. Now do you see that the GET =
could<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">possibly be also issued =
by the uCDN to check metadata stored by the dCDN?<br></blockquote><br>I =
think POSTs make the most sense going from upstream to =
downstream.<br>The agent was intended to moderate this, since any given =
pair of CDNs<br>could be both a uCDN and a dCDN for each other in =
different domains.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Do we agree =
POST would normally be dis-allowed in dCDN-uCDN direction (regardless of =
whether this is "enforced" by the Agent or something =
else)?</div><div><br></div><div>Regarding the use of POST for metadata =
creation, are you proposing it so it is used by the uCDN&nbsp;to =
"create" metadata in the dCDN (ie to pre-populate metadata in the dCDN) =
or are you proposing it so it is used by say a CP to "create" the =
metadata in the uCDN that will then be "pulled" by dCDN?</div><div>(for =
metadata pre-positioning in dCDN, I had been thinking more of an =
approach where the uCDN would issue a trigger instructing the dCDN to =
GET the corresponding metadata)</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000"><br></font>I see no reason why GETs could not go in =
both directions. &nbsp;I can see a<br>case where upstream entities would =
want to verify downstream =
entities.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>In any case, I would suggest that you =
discuss/document&nbsp;directionality in upcoming versions, possibly =
though some table capturing all the possible =
cases.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">* in your CDNI metadata model, a "domain" is directly =
associated with a<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">set of =
"hostnames". So this assumes that the same set of =
unmodified<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">hostnames is used =
unmodified everywhere in all the potential dCDNs. =
That<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">can be the case in some =
deployment, but that may not always be the =
case.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">For example, when HTTP =
redirection is used across CDNs, an upstream =
CDN<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">may want to modify =
(possibly hide) the actual content provider =
hostnames<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(and possibly part =
of the URI path) when redirecting to a dCDN (I =
believe<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">this is mentioned in =
the framework).<br></blockquote><br>I was thinking (though it is not =
noted in the document) that hostname<br>lists could be different in =
different dCDNs. &nbsp;What is not entirely<br>clear to me is how =
metadata would get set across cascaded CDNs,<br>i.e., if the CP =
contracts CDN-A, and CDN-A makes a deal with CDN-B,<br>and CDN-B makes a =
deal with CDN-C, does the CP or CDN-A know about<br>CDN-C and is the CP =
or CDN-A responsible configuring metadata on<br>CDN-C? &nbsp;Or, is CDN =
metadata only configured by the most immediate<br>uCDN (or the CP), =
i.e., only CDN-B (or the CP) will know the values of<br>metadata in =
CDN-C?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, =
everything would typically operate as a chain, because the typical =
relationships between entities will be as a chain:</div><div>CP knows =
CDN-A, CDN-A knows CDN-B, CDN-B knows =
CDN-C.</div><div>So:</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>*&nbsp;CDN-A would be responsible =
for crafting the metadata that will be pulled by CDN-B. CDN-A may elect =
to allow CP to directly populate (some/all) these metadata (so it does =
correctly reflect its policy).</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* CDN-B would then be responsible =
for crafting the metadata that will be pulled by =
CDN-C.&nbsp;CDN-B&nbsp;may elect to allow CDN-A to directly populate =
(some/all) these metadata (so it does correctly reflect its =
policy).</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>*&nbsp;etc.</div><div><br></div><div>In any case, do you agree =
with the idea of having the hostname/resource-sets be tied to the Agent =
(so they can be different on a per CDN basis)?</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Would you consider =
modifying your proposed CDNI model to allow for =
the<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">fact that a domain may be =
"referenced" differently by some dCDNs than =
by<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
uCDN?<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think it =
means:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* the =
concept of "hostnames" should be made more flexible so =
it<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">matches not just on =
hostnames but on pattern match over =
hostname/path.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Let's call this =
"resource sets".<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* =
"resource sets" should be dependent on "Agents". So perhaps =
it<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">shoudl be folded inside =
your "Metadata" so it can be defined on a =
per<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">"dCDN" =
basis.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Would that work for =
you?<br></blockquote><br>Would the goal be to use the entire =
hostname/uri as a single combined<br>key? &nbsp;I do not have a problem =
with merging them if we think that it<br>would be =
useful.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do think it is =
useful to associate to a domain something that is more flexible than =
hostname. For example, a hostname+beginning-of-path.</div><div>In some =
cases, it will just be hostnames. In some cases, it will be =
finer-grain</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Franc=
ois</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">* in section 3.3.3, you have a couple of examples =
showing<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">"/CDNI/MI/domain". =
Should those not say "/CDNI/MI/metadata"?<br></blockquote><br>Yep. =
&nbsp;Those are cut and paste errors, good catch! &nbsp;I will fix =
those.<br><br>thanx!<br><br>-- &nbsp;Kevin J. Ma<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Cheers<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Francois<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 6 Oct 2011, =
at 22:21, Kevin J Ma wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi =
all,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> Just uploaded =
a new I-D with a proposed metadata model and =
API:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> &nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt"=
>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-00.txt</a><br>=
</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"> The model takes a rather generic approach to metadata =
representation<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> to support =
opaque metadata and addresses some of the security =
issues<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> associated with =
metadata retrieval. &nbsp;Comments welcome.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">thanx.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">-- &nbsp;Kevin =
J. Ma<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing =
list<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" =
cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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font-size: 15px; "><span><img height=3D"100" width=3D"154" =
id=3D"4f4494a3-d144-4ec6-97f7-62bcadd686dc" apple-width=3D"yes" =
apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CB778A.6ECCAA50"></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; "><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
-webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; =
background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
-webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; =
background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><span></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height=3D"19" width=3D"18" =
id=3D"6a9dbb8c-d189-49f0-93e6-46d55218a560" apple-width=3D"yes" =
apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:EA80D384-C41E-4B98-81FE-095B29784C9D@cisco.com"></span><span =
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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
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From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Wed Oct 19 12:39:16 2011
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Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-requirements-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks Interconnec=
tion Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) Requ=
irements
	Author(s)       : Kent Leung
                          Yiu Lee
	Filename        : draft-ietf-cdni-requirements-01.txt
	Pages           : 20
	Date            : 2011-10-19

   Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) are frequently used for large-scale
   content delivery.  As a result, existing CDN providers are scaling up
   their infrastructure and many Network Service Providers (NSPs) are
   deploying their own CDNs.  There is a requirement for interconnecting
   standalone CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be
   leveraged for the end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service
   Providers (CSPs) to end users.  The Content Distribution Network
   Interconnection (CDNI) working group has been chartered to develop an
   interoperable and scalable solution for such CDN interconnection.

   The goal of the present document is to outline the requirements for
   the solution and interfaces to be specified by the CDNI working
   group.  This draft is a work in progress and requirements may be
   added, modified, or removed by the working group.

Requirements Language

   The key words &quot;High Priority&quot;, &quot;Medium Priority&quot; and=
 &quot;Low Priority&quot;
   in this document are to be interpreted in the following way:

   o  &quot;High Priority&quot; indicates requirements that are to be suppo=
rted by
      the CDNI interfaces.  A requirement is stated as &quot;High Priority&=
quot;
      when it is established by the working group that it can be met
      without compromising the targeted schedule for WG deliverables, or
      when it is established that specifying a solution without meeting
      this requirement would not make sense and would justify re-
      adjusting the WG schedule, or both.  This is tagged as &quot;[HIGH]&q=
uot;.

   o  &quot;Medium Priority&quot; indicates requirements that are to be sup=
ported
      by the CDNI interfaces unless the WG realizes at a later stage
      that attempting to meet this requirement would compromise the
      overall WG schedule (for example it would involve complexities
      that would result in significantly delaying the deliverables).
      This is tagged as &quot;[MED]&quot;.

   o  &quot;Low Priority&quot; indicates requirements that are to be suppor=
ted by
      the CDNI interfaces provided that dedicating WG resources to this
      work does not prevent addressing &quot;High Priority&quot; and &quot;=
Medium
      Priority&quot; requirements and that attempting to meet this
      requirement would not compromise the overall WG schedule.  This is
      tagged as &quot;[LOW]&quot;.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-requirements-01.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-requirements-01.txt

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Thread-Topic: Proposed update to CDNI requirements draft
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Hi folks.  We've received a few comments from the WG on the base =
requirements draft (-00).  There are some open issues marked for review. =
 In the attempt to "clean up" and expedite progress, here's a list of =
proposed resolutions for the identified open issues in draft and WG =
feedback.  Since it may be easier to read the requirements document in =
its entirety, the ver-01 will be published with the changes.  Of course, =
any further WG discussions and conclusions will be captured in the =
subsequent version. =20

=20

Please review and comment.  We believe that the draft is in stable =
condition.  If anyone disagrees, please specify any open issues that =
need to be addressed.  Thanks.

=20

-----

Open issue list in draft ver-00:

=20

1. Intro: OPEN ISSUE: Should requirements in each section be ordered by =
priority?

Resolution: Requirements are logically grouped.  No need to be ordered =
by priority which may change during working group discussions.

=20

2. GEN-9: OPEN ISSUE: arbitrary number should more than one level?)

Resolution: Change "to an arbitrary number of levels" to "to an =
arbitrary number of levels beyond the first level"

=20

3. GEN-13: OPEN ISSUE: Virtualization is transparent to CDNI, remove =
requirement or justify why uCDN/dCDN needs to be aware?)

Resolution: Requirement removed.

=20

4. GEN-14: OPEN ISSUE: Add HTTP ABR requirements

Resolution: Update requirement with "GEN-14: [HIGH] The CDNI solution =
shall support HTTP Adaptive Bit Rate (ABR) content."

=20

5. CNTL-4: OPEN ISSUE: how much influence the Upstream CDN ought to have =
on pre-positioning of the content on surrogates inside the Downstream =
CDN is TBD

The surrogates in the Downstream CDN are not required to be exposed to =
the Upstream CDN. =20

Resolution: Remove OPEN ISSUE comment.

=20

6. REQ-1: OPEN ISSUE: Belong to Control Interface section?

Resolution: Change "Control" to "Request-Routing" as the information =
pertains to request routing function.

=20

7. REQ-5/REQ-6: OPEN ISSUE: Surrogate selection is out of scope?

Accuracy of the Surrogate selection was described as an example.  There =
is no requirement for Surrogate selection.

Resolution: Remove OPEN ISSUE comment.

=20

8. REQ-9: OPEN ISSUE: Why route looped request?

The loop prevention mechanism should avoid request redirection loop.

Resolution: Add "... by avoiding the loop ..." in the requirement as =
clarification.

=20

9. META-3: OPEN ISSUE: Confirm high priority

Dynamic CDNI metadata acquisition is required.

Resolution: Remove OPEN ISSUE comment

=20

10. META-4: OPEN ISSUE: Confirm medium priority

Pre-positioned CDNI metadata acquisition is considered medium priority?

Resolution: Remove OPEN ISSUE comment

=20

11. META-14: OPEN ISSUE: Expiration time needed?

Expiration time may be included to remove content.

Resolution: Remove OPEN ISSUE comment

=20

10. LOG section: Editor's note: should we add a requirement for support =
of aggregate/ summarized logs

Resolution: Add the following new requirement:

LOG-10 [LOW] The CDNI Logging interface may support aggregate/ =
summarized logs (e.g. total bytes delivered for a content regardless of =
individual User Agents to which it was delivered).

=20

11. CNTL-1: Added "Only the object(s) and CDNI metadata that pertain to =
the requesting Upstream CDN are allowed to be purged." to "Delete an =
object" bullet.

=20

=20

-----

WG feedback:

=20

1. >>- Should REQ-1 be under Section 4 rather than 5?

=20

KL> This is noted in the "OPEN ISSUE" statement.  Unless there are =
objections, this requirement should be moved to Section 4 CDNI Control =
Interface.

=20

Resolution: See #6 above.

=20

2. >>- I think REQ-2 should be a MUST, and it should be written in the=20

>>context of=A9"The Upstream CDN MUST request aggregate information from =


>>the Downstream CDN to facilitate=A9"  If it's not a request, then it=20

>>must go the other way (the Downstream CDN MUST report to the Upstream=20

>>CDN).

=20

KL> This requirement can be split into two.  One for mandatory =
parameters for base function of CDN selection (e.g. content types, =
footprint).  The other for optional parameters that can be useful (e.g. =
metrics/attributes, affinities). The specific parameters should be left =
for the solution draft to deal with.  The "request" and "report" are RRI =
pull and push, respectively.  (See terms in framework draft).  In this =
requirement description, we've describe it more generically.

=20

After consulting with other authors, the conclusion was that the =
essential parameters used for request routing can be configured at the =
Upstream CDN.  Therefore, Request Routing Interface support for any of =
the parameters is considered as optional.

=20

Resolution: No action.

=20

3. >>- In addition, I think REQ-2 should really be part of the control=20

>>protocol.

>>This information should be known prior to initiating a Route Request.

>>- Under the control protocol requirements, there is no requirement as=20

>>to how often this should occur.

=20

KL> The need for information to be known by uCDN prior to route request =
is only for the iterative CDNI request routing case.  RRI supports this =
with the push model.

=20

Resolution: No action.

=20

4. >>- Should REQ-4 also be under Section 4 rather than 5?

=20

KL> I think there may still be some more debate on which functions =
belong to RRI vs. Control Interface.  If this requirement remains in the =
Control Interface, it should be moved to Section 5 CDNI Control =
Interface.

=20

Resolution: Changed "Control interface" to "Request-Routing =
architecture" in requirement because the information pertains to request =
routing function.

=20

5. >>- GEN-11 - With this requirement, it appears some other =
requirements=20

>>are redundant or unnecessary.

=20

=20

KL> For what it's worth, this is a generic requirement for loop free =
information exchange.   There may need to be explicit requirements =
within the CDNI interface based on specific context.  I think there's =
some value in that.  Open to disagreements and suggestions to delete =
requirements or add new requirements.=20

=20

Resolution: No action.

=20

6. >>- Section 6 - Is this intended to be a protocol within the control=20

>>protocol?  To me it looks like it should.  Another way to ask it is,=20

>>can this be included within the control protocol?

=20

KL> Section 6 is for CDNI Metadata Distribution Interface.  The function =
is to distribute CDNI metadata.  So we can avoid coupling protocols or =
not debate in the requirements draft.  That should be left to the =
solution draft.

=20

Resolution: No action

=20

>>- R59 - Should it also include "alternative content" sources, options, =


>>etc. in the case of "blackouts"?

=20

7. KL> The list contains examples of content distribution control =
policies.  It's open to other examples that are commonly use or deemed =
valuable.  I'm not clear about alternative content sources.  Maybe you =
can provide some text to clarify?

=20

Resolution: No action

=20

8. >>- Section 7 - Should there be a "quality" metric or respond from =
the=20

>>downstream CDN on the delivered content to the End user?

>>=20

=20

KL> This could be a new [MED] or [LOW] priority requirement.

=20

Resolution: Add new requirement, LOG-11, as follows:

=20

LOG-11 [LOW] The CDNI Logging interface may provide "quality" metrics in =
the logging of deliveries to User Agents performed by the Downstream =
CDN.

=20

9. >>With regards to cascaded CDNs, this could be very bad.  I think =
there=20

>>must be a control mechanism to indicate how many "cascades" are=20

>>involved in the CDNI and allow the Upstream CDN to cut it off at some=20

>>point.

>>=20

=20

KL> I think this comment is not specific to CDNI Logging.  You are =
suggesting having a requirement to limit the number of cascaded CDNs =
(GEN-9)?

=20

This may be an implementation knob to limit levels of redirection.  =
Though it conflicts with GEN-9 on arbitruary levels.

=20

Resolution: No action.

=20

10. >>Also, should there be any mechanism to indicate whether =
entitlements=20

>>are an issue to downstream CDNs from the CSP?

>>=20

=20

KL>  Not sure if entitlements have been discussed in the past.  Others =
can chime in.

=20

Not clear if this is covered in the delegation blacklist in META-14 =
requirement? =20

=20

Resolution: No action

=20

=20

=20

Kent


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
folks.=A0 We&#8217;ve received a few comments from the WG on the base =
requirements draft (-00).=A0 There are some open issues marked for =
review.=A0 In the attempt to &#8220;clean up&#8221; and expedite =
progress, here&#8217;s a list of proposed resolutions for the identified =
open issues in draft and WG feedback.=A0 Since it may be easier to read =
the requirements document in its entirety, the ver-01 will be published =
with the changes.=A0 Of course, any further WG discussions and =
conclusions will be captured in the subsequent version. =
=A0<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Please review and comment.=A0 We believe that the =
draft is in stable condition.=A0 If anyone disagrees, please specify any =
open issues that need to be addressed.=A0 Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Open issue list in =
draft ver-00:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>1. Intro: OPEN =
ISSUE: Should requirements in each section be ordered by =
priority?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: =
Requirements are logically grouped.=A0 No need to be ordered by priority =
which may change during working group =
discussions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>2. GEN-9: OPEN =
ISSUE: arbitrary number should more than one =
level?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Change =
&quot;to an arbitrary number of levels&quot; to &quot;to an arbitrary =
number of levels beyond the first level&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>3. GEN-13: OPEN =
ISSUE: Virtualization is transparent to CDNI, remove requirement or =
justify why uCDN/dCDN needs to be aware?)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: =
Requirement removed.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>4. GEN-14: OPEN =
ISSUE: Add HTTP ABR requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Update =
requirement with &quot;GEN-14: [HIGH] The CDNI solution shall support =
HTTP Adaptive Bit Rate (ABR) content.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>5. CNTL-4: OPEN =
ISSUE: how much influence the Upstream CDN ought to have on =
pre-positioning of the content on surrogates inside the Downstream CDN =
is TBD<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The surrogates in =
the Downstream CDN are not required to be exposed to the Upstream =
CDN.=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Remove =
OPEN ISSUE comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>6. REQ-1: OPEN =
ISSUE: Belong to Control Interface section?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Change =
&quot;Control&quot; to &quot;Request-Routing&quot; as the information =
pertains to request routing function.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>7. REQ-5/REQ-6: =
OPEN ISSUE: Surrogate selection is out of scope?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Accuracy of the =
Surrogate selection was described as an example.=A0 There is no =
requirement for Surrogate selection.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Remove =
OPEN ISSUE comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>8. REQ-9: OPEN =
ISSUE: Why route looped request?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;ma=
rgin-left:0in;text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The loop prevention =
mechanism should avoid request redirection loop.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Add =
&quot;... by avoiding the loop ...&quot; in the requirement as =
clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>9. META-3: OPEN =
ISSUE: Confirm high priority<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dynamic CDNI =
metadata acquisition is required.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Remove =
OPEN ISSUE comment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>10. META-4: OPEN =
ISSUE: Confirm medium priority<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Pre-positioned CDNI =
metadata acquisition is considered medium =
priority?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Remove =
OPEN ISSUE comment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>11. META-14: OPEN =
ISSUE: Expiration time needed?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Expiration time may =
be included to remove content.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Remove =
OPEN ISSUE comment<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>10. LOG section: =
Editor's note: should we add a requirement for support of aggregate/ =
summarized logs<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Add the =
following new requirement:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>LOG-10 [LOW] The =
CDNI Logging interface may support aggregate/ summarized logs (e.g. =
total bytes delivered for a content regardless of individual User Agents =
to which it was delivered).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>11. CNTL-1: Added =
&quot;Only the object(s) and CDNI metadata that pertain to the =
requesting Upstream CDN are allowed to be purged.&quot; to &quot;Delete =
an object&quot; bullet.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>-----<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>WG =
feedback:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>1. &gt;&gt;- Should =
REQ-1 be under Section 4 rather than 5?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; This is =
noted in the &quot;OPEN ISSUE&quot; statement.=A0 Unless there are =
objections, this requirement should be moved to Section 4 CDNI Control =
Interface.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: See #6 =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>2. &gt;&gt;- I =
think REQ-2 should be a MUST, and it should be written in the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;context =
of=A9&quot;The Upstream CDN MUST request aggregate information from =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;the =
Downstream CDN to facilitate=A9&quot;=A0 If it's not a request, then it =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;must go the =
other way (the Downstream CDN MUST report to the Upstream =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;CDN).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; This =
requirement can be split into two.=A0 One for mandatory parameters for =
base function of CDN selection (e.g. content types, footprint).=A0 The =
other for optional parameters that can be useful (e.g. =
metrics/attributes, affinities). The specific parameters should be left =
for the solution draft to deal with.=A0 The &quot;request&quot; and =
&quot;report&quot; are RRI pull and push, respectively.=A0 (See terms in =
framework draft).=A0 In this requirement description, we've describe it =
more generically.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>After consulting =
with other authors, the conclusion was that the essential parameters =
used for request routing can be configured at the Upstream CDN.=A0 =
Therefore, Request Routing Interface support for any of the parameters =
is considered as optional.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>3. &gt;&gt;- In =
addition, I think REQ-2 should really be part of the control =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;This =
information should be known prior to initiating a Route =
Request.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;- Under the =
control protocol requirements, there is no requirement as =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;to how =
often this should occur.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; The need for =
information to be known by uCDN prior to route request is only for the =
iterative CDNI request routing case.=A0 RRI supports this with the push =
model.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>4. &gt;&gt;- Should =
REQ-4 also be under Section 4 rather than 5?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; I think =
there may still be some more debate on which functions belong to RRI vs. =
Control Interface.=A0 If this requirement remains in the Control =
Interface, it should be moved to Section 5 CDNI Control =
Interface.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Changed =
&quot;Control interface&quot; to &quot;Request-Routing =
architecture&quot; in requirement because the information pertains to =
request routing function.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>5. &gt;&gt;- GEN-11 =
- With this requirement, it appears some other requirements =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;are =
redundant or unnecessary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; For what =
it's worth, this is a generic requirement for loop free information =
exchange.=A0=A0 There may need to be explicit requirements within the =
CDNI interface based on specific context.=A0 I think there's some value =
in that.=A0 Open to disagreements and suggestions to delete requirements =
or add new requirements. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>6. &gt;&gt;- =
Section 6 - Is this intended to be a protocol within the control =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;protocol?=A0 To me it looks like it should.=A0 Another way =
to ask it is, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;can this be =
included within the control protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; Section 6 is =
for CDNI Metadata Distribution Interface.=A0 The function is to =
distribute CDNI metadata.=A0 So we can avoid coupling protocols or not =
debate in the requirements draft.=A0 That should be left to the solution =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;- R59 - =
Should it also include &quot;alternative content&quot; sources, options, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;etc. in the =
case of &quot;blackouts&quot;?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>7. KL&gt; The list =
contains examples of content distribution control policies.=A0 It's open =
to other examples that are commonly use or deemed valuable.=A0 I'm not =
clear about alternative content sources.=A0 Maybe you can provide some =
text to clarify?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>8. &gt;&gt;- =
Section 7 - Should there be a &quot;quality&quot; metric or respond from =
the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;downstream =
CDN on the delivered content to the End user?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; This could =
be a new [MED] or [LOW] priority requirement.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: Add new =
requirement, LOG-11, as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>LOG-11 [LOW] The =
CDNI Logging interface may provide &quot;quality&quot; metrics in the =
logging of deliveries to User Agents performed by the Downstream =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>9. &gt;&gt;With =
regards to cascaded CDNs, this could be very bad.=A0 I think there =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;must be a =
control mechanism to indicate how many &quot;cascades&quot; are =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;involved in =
the CDNI and allow the Upstream CDN to cut it off at some =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;point.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt; I think this =
comment is not specific to CDNI Logging.=A0 You are suggesting having a =
requirement to limit the number of cascaded CDNs =
(GEN-9)?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This may be an =
implementation knob to limit levels of redirection.=A0 Though it =
conflicts with GEN-9 on arbitruary levels.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>10. &gt;&gt;Also, =
should there be any mechanism to indicate whether entitlements =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&gt;&gt;are an =
issue to downstream CDNs from the CSP?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>&gt;&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>KL&gt;=A0 Not sure =
if entitlements have been discussed in the past.=A0 Others can chime =
in.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Not clear if this =
is covered in the delegation blacklist in META-14 requirement?=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Resolution: No =
action<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-autospace:none'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Kent<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:53:43 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] CDNI Metadata Interface
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--00151747862e112c4c04afd604ba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
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I am resurrecting this old thread to let you know that a draft has finally
been submitted. The authors have tried to analyze ATIS CSF's
requirements and determine the additional requirements that are appropriate
for CDNI. Our hope is that these additional reqs might be adopted into
CDNI.



Please take a look at the draft and provide your feedback. Thanks.



Filename:
draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs<http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-manning=
-cdni-additional-csf-reqs-00.txt>
Revision:        00
Title:           Additional Content Distribution Network Interconnection
(CDNI) Requirements Based on ATIS CSF
Creation date:   2011-10-21
WG ID:           Individual Submission
Number of pages: 9

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Serge Manning <sergem913@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Subject: ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI
To: cdni@ietf.org


I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has just
published use cases and requirements on CDN Interconnect. ATIS CSF has
overlaps with the goals of this WG but is coming with input from telecom
operators' perspective.

The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writing detailed
technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be able to
write standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS CSF is also
open to requirements feedback from this group in terms of technical
limitations and suggestions.

A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determine the unique
requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit them here in
the near future (after Quebec).

In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF
document. It is freely available for a time although it does require a
painless registration. Go here <http://www.atis.org/docstore/default.aspx>a=
nd
register and then use the code "CSF711" for a free download. Thanks for you=
r
attention.

Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide background info.

--=20
--Serge

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 *ATIS Cloud Services Forum Releases Content Distribution Network
Interconnection Specifications *



July 5, 2011 =97 Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Ser=
vices
Forum (CSF) has released the *CDN Interconnection Use Case Specification an=
d
High Level Requirements (ATIS-0200003) *standards document.  The standard
provides an initial description of content distribution networks (CDNs) and
develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to support
passing content distribution requests between two service providers.

The standard enables CDN interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common
interfaces between providers=92 operations systems, back office interfaces,
routing equipment, and network interconnections.  The CSF=92s end-to-end
process perspective is designed specifically to improve the efficiency and
quality of service delivery to end users. Completed in only three months,
this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 rapid response to evolving carrier needs a=
nd
delivers inter-carrier solutions essential to broad adoption of cloud
services.

=93The standard marks a major step forward in enabling seamless, global
content delivery, especially for video, between service providers,=94 said
ATIS President and CEO, Susan Miller.  =93What sets the CSF=92s work apart =
is
its focus on business needs as the driver for better interconnection. This
ATIS technical solution for inter-provider content delivery helps providers
meet critical customer service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve
end-user experience through cost effective video delivery.=94

This initial CSF standard is intended to serve as the basis for future
efforts which will examine: 1) the delivery of more complex types of conten=
t
such as live streaming, video on demand, and peak-hour web interactions
involving the use of authorization and authentication procedures; 2) the us=
e
of multicast delivery methods for some of these content types; and 3)
interaction scenarios in a multi-provider content distribution environment
involving a Federated Exchange.

Until September 30, 2011, the new standard is available at no charge throug=
h
the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711=94. The Doc=
ument
Center is the leading online resource to published and pre-published
telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, requirements and
guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and committees.

*About ATIS**
*ATIS is the leading technical planning and standards development
organization committed to the rapid development of global, market-driven
standards for the information, entertainment and communications industry.
More than 200 companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees,
covering issues including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Base=
d
and Wireless Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational
Support, Emergency Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks.
In addition, numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address
evolving industry priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine,
Networked Car, IP Downloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network
Optimization.

ATIS is the North American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation
Partnership Project (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the
International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92
Sectors, and a member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission
(CITEL). ATIS is accredited by the American National Standards Institute
(ANSI). For more information, please visit
www.atis.org<http://na03.mypinpointe.com/link.php?M=3D10875047&N=3D6865&L=
=3D3366&F=3DH>
.

*About the Cloud Services Forum**
*ATIS=92 Cloud Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of
cloud services from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use
cases that leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses indust=
ry
priorities and develops implementable solutions for this evolving
marketplace. CSF is working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by
service providers =96 are quickly operationalized to facilitate the deliver=
y
of interoperable, secure, and managed services. Current priorities include
content distribution network interconnection, cloud services framework,
inter-carrier telepresence, virtual desktop, virtual private network, and
development of a cloud services checklist for onboarding.
 ------------------------------





--=20
--Serge

--00151747862e112c4c04afd604ba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am resurrecting this old thread to let you know th=
at a
draft has finally been submitted. The authors have tried to analyze ATIS CS=
F&#39;s
requirements=A0and determine the additional requirements that are
appropriate for CDNI. Our hope is that these additional reqs might be
adopted into CDNI.=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please take a look at the draft and provide your
feedback. Thanks.</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=A0</p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;background:white">Filename:
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-manning-cdni-additio=
nal-csf-reqs-00.txt" target=3D"_blank">draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-re=
qs</a></span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;background:white"><br>

<span>Revision: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A000</span><br>
<span>Title: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
Additional Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) Requirements
Based on ATIS CSF</span><br>
<span>Creation date: =A0 2011-10-21</span><br>
<span>WG ID: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
Individual Submission</span><br>
<span>Number of pages: 9</span></span></p><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">--=
-------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class=3D"gmail_sendername=
">Serge Manning</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sergem913@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">sergem913@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>

Date: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM<br>Subject: ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs a=
nd IETF CDNI<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">cdni=
@ietf.org</a><br><br><br>I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Foru=
m (CSF) which has just published use cases and requirements on CDN Intercon=
nect.=A0ATIS CSF has overlaps with the goals of this WG but is coming with =
input from telecom operators&#39;=A0perspective.=A0<div>


<br></div><div>The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writi=
ng detailed technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be=
 able to write standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS CS=
F is also open to requirements feedback from this group in terms of technic=
al limitations and suggestions.=A0
<div><br></div><div>A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determ=
ine the unique requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit=
 them here in the near future (after Quebec).</div><div><br></div><div>



In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF doc=
ument. It is freely available for a time although it does require a painles=
s registration. Go <a href=3D"http://www.atis.org/docstore/default.aspx" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">here </a>and register and then use the code &quot;CSF711&qu=
ot; for a free download. Thanks for your attention.=A0</div>



<div><br></div><div>Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide bac=
kground info.</div><div><br></div><div>--=A0</div><div>--Serge</div><div><b=
r></div><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div><div><br><table border=3D"0" cel=
lpadding=3D"0" width=3D"650" style=3D"width:487.5pt">



 <tbody><tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><stro=
ng><span style=3D"color:navy">ATIS Cloud Services
  Forum Releases Content Distribution Network Interconnection
  Specifications=A0</span></strong><span></span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
  <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>=A0</span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
  <p><span>July 5, 2011 =97
  Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Services Forum (CS=
F) has
  released the <i>CDN Interconnection Use Case Specification and High Level
  Requirements (ATIS-0200003) </i>standards document. =A0The standard
  provides an initial description of content distribution networks (CDNs) a=
nd
  develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to support
  passing content distribution requests between two service providers.</spa=
n></p>
  <p><span>The standard enables CDN
  interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common interfaces between provid=
ers=92
  operations systems, back office interfaces, routing equipment, and networ=
k
  interconnections. =A0The CSF=92s end-to-end process perspective is design=
ed
  specifically to improve the efficiency and quality of service delivery to=
 end
  users. Completed in only three months, this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 r=
apid
  response to evolving carrier needs and delivers inter-carrier solutions
  essential to broad adoption of cloud services.<span style=3D"color:#1F497=
D"></span></span></p>
  <p><span>=93The standard marks a
  major step forward in enabling seamless, global content delivery, especia=
lly
  for video, between service providers,=94 said ATIS President and CEO, Sus=
an
  Miller. =A0=93What sets the CSF=92s work apart is its focus on business n=
eeds
  as the driver for better interconnection. This ATIS technical solution fo=
r
  inter-provider content delivery helps providers meet critical customer
  service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve end-user experience thr=
ough
  cost effective video delivery.=94</span></p>
  <p><span>This initial CSF standard
  is intended to serve as the basis for future efforts which will examine: =
1)
  the delivery of more complex types of content such as live streaming, vid=
eo
  on demand, and peak-hour web interactions involving the use of authorizat=
ion
  and authentication procedures; 2) the use of multicast delivery methods f=
or
  some of these content types; and 3) interaction scenarios in a multi-prov=
ider
  content distribution environment involving a Federated Exchange.</span></=
p>
  <p><span>Until September 30, 2011<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">,</span> t=
he new standard is available at no charge
  through the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711=
=94. The
  Document Center is the leading online resource to published and pre-publi=
shed
  telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, requirements a=
nd
  guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and committees.</sp=
an></p>
  <p><strong><span style=3D"color:#333399">About
  ATIS</span></strong><b><span><br>
  </span></b><span>ATIS is the
  leading technical planning and standards development organization committ=
ed
  to the rapid development of global, market-driven standards for the
  information, entertainment and communications industry. More than 200
  companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees, covering is=
sues
  including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Based and Wireless
  Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational Support, Emerge=
ncy
  Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition,
  numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address evolving indust=
ry
  priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP
  Downloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network Optimization.</span=
></p>
  <p><span>ATIS is the North
  American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation Partnership Projec=
t
  (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the International
  Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92 Sectors, an=
d a
  member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission (CITEL). ATIS i=
s
  accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). For more
  information, please visit <a href=3D"http://na03.mypinpointe.com/link.php=
?M=3D10875047&amp;N=3D6865&amp;L=3D3366&amp;F=3DH" target=3D"_blank">www.at=
is.org</a>.</span></p>
  <p><strong><span style=3D"color:#333399">About
  the Cloud Services Forum</span></strong><b><span style=3D"color:#333399">=
<br>
  </span></b><span>ATIS=92 Cloud
  Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of cloud services
  from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use cases that
  leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses industry priori=
ties
  and develops implementable solutions for this evolving marketplace. CSF i=
s
  working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by service providers=
 =96 are
  quickly operationalized to facilitate the delivery of interoperable, secu=
re,
  and managed services. Current priorities include content distribution net=
work
  interconnection, cloud services framework, inter-carrier telepresence,
  virtual desktop, virtual private network, and development of a cloud serv=
ices
  checklist for onboarding.=A0</span></p>
  <div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>
  <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"650" style=3D"width:487.5pt" align=3D"left">
  </span></div>
  <p><span>=A0</span></p>
  </td>
 </tr></tbody></table>
</div>
</div>
</div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>--Serge<br><br>

--00151747862e112c4c04afd604ba--

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Hello Serge,

Thanks for bringing the ATIS CSF requirements into our group as we had =
agreed.
Those seem to me generally in the right direction. Of course, they'll =
have to be reviewed and prioritized by the group.

Cheers

Francois

On 21 Oct 2011, at 14:47, Serge Manning wrote:

> I am resurrecting this old thread to let you know that a draft has =
finally been submitted. The authors have tried to analyze ATIS CSF's =
requirements and determine the additional requirements that are =
appropriate for CDNI. Our hope is that these additional reqs might be =
adopted into CDNI.=20
>=20
> =20
> Please take a look at the draft and provide your feedback. Thanks.
>=20
> =20
> Filename:        draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs
> Revision:        00
> Title:           Additional Content Distribution Network =
Interconnection (CDNI) Requirements Based on ATIS CSF
> Creation date:   2011-10-21
> WG ID:           Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 9
>=20
>=20
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Serge Manning <sergem913@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM
> Subject: ATIS CDN Interconnect Reqs and IETF CDNI
> To: cdni@ietf.org
>=20
>=20
> I am a participant in the ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has =
just published use cases and requirements on CDN Interconnect. ATIS CSF =
has overlaps with the goals of this WG but is coming with input from =
telecom operators' perspective.=20
>=20
> The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be writing =
detailed technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG might be =
able to write standards to support *some* of the CSF requirements. ATIS =
CSF is also open to requirements feedback from this group in terms of =
technical limitations and suggestions.=20
>=20
> A few CSF members will be working to analyze and determine the unique =
requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF and submit them here =
in the near future (after Quebec).
>=20
> In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the =
CSF document. It is freely available for a time although it does require =
a painless registration. Go here and register and then use the code =
"CSF711" for a free download. Thanks for your attention.=20
>=20
> Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide background info.
>=20
> --=20
> --Serge
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> ATIS Cloud Services Forum Releases Content Distribution Network =
Interconnection Specifications=20
>=20
> =20
> July 5, 2011 =97 Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its =
Cloud Services Forum (CSF) has released the CDN Interconnection Use Case =
Specification and High Level Requirements (ATIS-0200003) standards =
document.  The standard provides an initial description of content =
distribution networks (CDNs) and develops interconnection use cases and =
high-level requirements to support passing content distribution requests =
between two service providers.
>=20
> The standard enables CDN interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for =
common interfaces between providers=92 operations systems, back office =
interfaces, routing equipment, and network interconnections.  The CSF=92s =
end-to-end process perspective is designed specifically to improve the =
efficiency and quality of service delivery to end users. Completed in =
only three months, this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 rapid response to =
evolving carrier needs and delivers inter-carrier solutions essential to =
broad adoption of cloud services.
>=20
> =93The standard marks a major step forward in enabling seamless, =
global content delivery, especially for video, between service =
providers,=94 said ATIS President and CEO, Susan Miller.  =93What sets =
the CSF=92s work apart is its focus on business needs as the driver for =
better interconnection. This ATIS technical solution for inter-provider =
content delivery helps providers meet critical customer service =
imperatives=97namely, the need to improve end-user experience through =
cost effective video delivery.=94
>=20
> This initial CSF standard is intended to serve as the basis for future =
efforts which will examine: 1) the delivery of more complex types of =
content such as live streaming, video on demand, and peak-hour web =
interactions involving the use of authorization and authentication =
procedures; 2) the use of multicast delivery methods for some of these =
content types; and 3) interaction scenarios in a multi-provider content =
distribution environment involving a Federated Exchange.
>=20
> Until September 30, 2011, the new standard is available at no charge =
through the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =93CSF711=94=
. The Document Center is the leading online resource to published and =
pre-published telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, =
requirements and guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums =
and committees.
>=20
> About ATIS
> ATIS is the leading technical planning and standards development =
organization committed to the rapid development of global, market-driven =
standards for the information, entertainment and communications =
industry. More than 200 companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 =
Committees, covering issues including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy =
Efficiency, IP-Based and Wireless Technologies, Quality of Service, =
Billing and Operational Support, Emergency Services, Architectural =
Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition, numerous Incubators, Focus =
and Exploratory Groups address evolving industry priorities including =
Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP Downloadable Security, =
Policy Management, and Network Optimization.
>=20
> ATIS is the North American Organizational Partner for the 3rd =
Generation Partnership Project (3GPP), a member and major U.S. =
contributor to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and =
Telecommunications=92 Sectors, and a member of the Inter-American =
Telecommunication Commission (CITEL). ATIS is accredited by the American =
National Standards Institute (ANSI). For more information, please visit =
www.atis.org.
>=20
> About the Cloud Services Forum
> ATIS=92 Cloud Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement =
of cloud services from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon =
business use cases that leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum =
addresses industry priorities and develops implementable solutions for =
this evolving marketplace. CSF is working to ensure that cloud services =
=96 as offered by service providers =96 are quickly operationalized to =
facilitate the delivery of interoperable, secure, and managed services. =
Current priorities include content distribution network interconnection, =
cloud services framework, inter-carrier telepresence, virtual desktop, =
virtual private network, and development of a cloud services checklist =
for onboarding.=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> --Serge
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hello =
Serge,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for bringing the ATIS CSF requirements =
into our group as we had agreed.</div><div>Those seem to me generally in =
the right direction. Of course, they'll have to be reviewed and =
prioritized by the =
group.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Francois</=
div><div><br><div><div>On 21 Oct 2011, at 14:47, Serge Manning =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I am resurrecting this old thread =
to let you know that a
draft has finally been submitted. The authors have tried to analyze ATIS =
CSF's
requirements&nbsp;and determine the additional requirements that are
appropriate for CDNI. Our hope is that these additional reqs might be
adopted into CDNI.&nbsp;</p><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please =
take a look at the draft and provide your
feedback. Thanks.</p><div>&nbsp;<br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;background:white">Filename:
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs-00.t=
xt" =
target=3D"_blank">draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs</a></span></span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;background:white"><br>

<span>Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;00</span><br>
<span>Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
Additional Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) =
Requirements
Based on ATIS CSF</span><br>
<span>Creation date: &nbsp; 2011-10-21</span><br>
<span>WG ID: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
Individual Submission</span><br>
<span>Number of pages: 9</span></span></p><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: =
<b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Serge Manning</b> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:sergem913@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">sergem913@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br>

Date: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 3:20 PM<br>Subject: ATIS CDN Interconnect =
Reqs and IETF CDNI<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><br><br>I am a participant in the =
ATIS Cloud Services Forum (CSF) which has just published use cases and =
requirements on CDN Interconnect.&nbsp;ATIS CSF has overlaps with the =
goals of this WG but is coming with input from telecom =
operators'&nbsp;perspective.&nbsp;<div>


<br></div><div>The reason for this email is that ATIS CSF will not be =
writing detailed technical specifications and so is hoping that this WG =
might be able to write standards to support *some* of the CSF =
requirements. ATIS CSF is also open to requirements feedback from this =
group in terms of technical limitations and suggestions.&nbsp;
<div><br></div><div>A few CSF members will be working to analyze and =
determine the unique requirements (relative to CDNI) that arise in CSF =
and submit them here in the near future (after =
Quebec).</div><div><br></div><div>



In the meantime, I encourage those interested to take a look at the CSF =
document. It is freely available for a time although it does require a =
painless registration. Go <a =
href=3D"http://www.atis.org/docstore/default.aspx" target=3D"_blank">here =
</a>and register and then use the code "CSF711" for a free download. =
Thanks for your attention.&nbsp;</div>



<div><br></div><div>Below I reproduce the ATIS press release to provide =
background =
info.</div><div><br></div><div>--&nbsp;</div><div>--Serge</div><div><br></=
div><div>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</div><div><br><table border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"650" style=3D"width:487.5pt">



 <tbody><tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><strong><span =
style=3D"color:navy">ATIS Cloud Services
  Forum Releases Content Distribution Network Interconnection
  Specifications&nbsp;</span></strong><span></span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt"><div><span>&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr>
  <td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p><span>July 5, 2011 =97
  Washington, DC =97 ATIS announced today that its Cloud Services Forum =
(CSF) has
  released the <i>CDN Interconnection Use Case Specification and High =
Level
  Requirements (ATIS-0200003) </i>standards document. &nbsp;The standard
  provides an initial description of content distribution networks =
(CDNs) and
  develops interconnection use cases and high-level requirements to =
support
  passing content distribution requests between two service =
providers.</span></p><p><span>The standard enables CDN
  interconnection (CDN-I) by providing for common interfaces between =
providers=92
  operations systems, back office interfaces, routing equipment, and =
network
  interconnections. &nbsp;The CSF=92s end-to-end process perspective is =
designed
  specifically to improve the efficiency and quality of service delivery =
to end
  users. Completed in only three months, this effort demonstrates ATIS=92 =
rapid
  response to evolving carrier needs and delivers inter-carrier =
solutions
  essential to broad adoption of cloud services.<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"></span></span></p><p><span>=93The standard marks =
a
  major step forward in enabling seamless, global content delivery, =
especially
  for video, between service providers,=94 said ATIS President and CEO, =
Susan
  Miller. &nbsp;=93What sets the CSF=92s work apart is its focus on =
business needs
  as the driver for better interconnection. This ATIS technical solution =
for
  inter-provider content delivery helps providers meet critical customer
  service imperatives=97namely, the need to improve end-user experience =
through
  cost effective video delivery.=94</span></p><p><span>This initial CSF =
standard
  is intended to serve as the basis for future efforts which will =
examine: 1)
  the delivery of more complex types of content such as live streaming, =
video
  on demand, and peak-hour web interactions involving the use of =
authorization
  and authentication procedures; 2) the use of multicast delivery =
methods for
  some of these content types; and 3) interaction scenarios in a =
multi-provider
  content distribution environment involving a Federated =
Exchange.</span></p><p><span>Until September 30, 2011<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D">,</span> the new standard is available at no =
charge
  through the ATIS Document Center by entering promotional code =
=93CSF711=94. The
  Document Center is the leading online resource to published and =
pre-published
  telecommunication standards, as well as technical reports, =
requirements and
  guidelines produced by ATIS-sponsored industry forums and =
committees.</span></p><p><strong><span style=3D"color:#333399">About
  ATIS</span></strong><b><span><br>
  </span></b><span>ATIS is the
  leading technical planning and standards development organization =
committed
  to the rapid development of global, market-driven standards for the
  information, entertainment and communications industry. More than 200
  companies actively formulate standards in ATIS=92 Committees, covering =
issues
  including: IPTV, Cloud Services, Energy Efficiency, IP-Based and =
Wireless
  Technologies, Quality of Service, Billing and Operational Support, =
Emergency
  Services, Architectural Platforms and Emerging Networks. In addition,
  numerous Incubators, Focus and Exploratory Groups address evolving =
industry
  priorities including Smart Grid, Machine-to-Machine, Networked Car, IP
  Downloadable Security, Policy Management, and Network =
Optimization.</span></p><p><span>ATIS is the North
  American Organizational Partner for the 3rd Generation Partnership =
Project
  (3GPP), a member and major U.S. contributor to the International
  Telecommunication Union (ITU) Radio and Telecommunications=92 Sectors, =
and a
  member of the Inter-American Telecommunication Commission (CITEL). =
ATIS is
  accredited by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). For =
more
  information, please visit <a =
href=3D"http://na03.mypinpointe.com/link.php?M=3D10875047&amp;N=3D6865&amp=
;L=3D3366&amp;F=3DH" =
target=3D"_blank">www.atis.org</a>.</span></p><p><strong><span =
style=3D"color:#333399">About
  the Cloud Services Forum</span></strong><b><span =
style=3D"color:#333399"><br>
  </span></b><span>ATIS=92 Cloud
  Services Forum facilitates the adoption and advancement of cloud =
services
  from a network and IT perspective. Drawing upon business use cases =
that
  leverage cloud services=92 potential, the Forum addresses industry =
priorities
  and develops implementable solutions for this evolving marketplace. =
CSF is
  working to ensure that cloud services =96 as offered by service =
providers =96 are
  quickly operationalized to facilitate the delivery of interoperable, =
secure,
  and managed services. Current priorities include content distribution =
network
  interconnection, cloud services framework, inter-carrier telepresence,
  virtual desktop, virtual private network, and development of a cloud =
services
  checklist for onboarding.&nbsp;</span></p>
  <div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span>
  <hr size=3D"2" width=3D"650" style=3D"width:487.5pt" align=3D"left">
  </span></div><div><span>&nbsp;</span><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
  </td>
 </tr></tbody></table>
</div>
</div>
</div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>--Serge<br><br>
_______________________________________________<br>CDNi mailing =
list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni<br></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" =
cellspacing=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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font-size: 15px; "><span><img height=3D"100" width=3D"154" =
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apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CB778A.6ECCAA50"></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
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normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; "><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
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background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
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"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><span></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height=3D"19" width=3D"18" =
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From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 24 05:44:34 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Kevin,

On 18 Oct 2011, at 17:03, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> On 17 Oct 2011, at 19:26, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>>> I attempted to create an extensible representation for metadata and =
a
>>> complete protocol for manipulating metadata, though, not all users =
of
>>> the interface will need all aspects.  Do you feel that the protocol =
is
>>> deficient for non-authoritative CDN use, or that authoritative CDNs =
do
>>> not need the metadata interface?
>>=20
>> I think that we should stick to the scope of work we have been =
chartered
>> to address, in the case of CDNI Metadata that is an interface that =
"will
>> allow the CDNs to exchange content distribution metadata of inter-CDN
>> scope".
>>=20
>> If the interface we specify is also usable in other scenarios then =
that's
>> great but I don't think we should be actively looking to design an
>> interface that is usable across a multitude of scenarios that are not =
in
>> scope of CDNI because it's a distraction and likely to defocus our
>> efforts. Our charter is not to define a new CP->CDN provisioning =
interface
>> (they already exist) so we shouldn't be burning cycles working on =
things
>> that are out of charter.
>=20
> I personally do not see a difference between uCDN->dCDN and CP->uCDN.
> If in supporting uCDN->dCDN you get CP->uCDN, I think that is a bonus.
> I do not think we should ignore uCDN->dCDN just because it might be
> useful to CPs.  Is the argument that a uCDN should never need to push
> metadata to a dCDN and therefore we do not need uCDN->dCDN support?

My argument is that CP->uCDN and uCDN->dCDN are different beasts and in =
supporting uCDN->dCDN you do not get a sufficient interface for =
CP->uCDN.

We thought about this when writing draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata and we =
came to the conclusion that CP->uCDN is a provisioning interface whereas =
for CDNI no provisioning is required, the dCDN only needs how to execute =
the already-provisioned (in the uCDN) CDNI metadata.

A multi-tenanted CP->uCDN provisioning interface requires a different =
feature set and a richer data model than a uCDN->dCDN interface that =
just needs to transfer already-provisioned CDNI metadata for a dCDN to =
execute it.

For example, a multi-tentanted CP->uCDN provisioning interface needs to =
support features such as:
- User & Role based access control and a user account hierarchy that =
allows different business entities to control different levels of that =
hierarchy.
- Metadata access permissions as different users (at different levels in =
the account hierarchy) may not have read or read/write access to all =
types of metadata record and because users at different levels in the =
account hierarchy have the requirement to add additional metadata =
properties/policies (e.g. a Reseller may want to always have their =
off-shore QA team added to any Delivery ACL to enable them to =
troubleshoot).
- Service/Account templates to simply provisioning.
etc.

When it comes to executing the CDN metadata (i.e. what a surrogate needs =
to know to perform the actual content delivery) none of the above =
features really matter, the CDN metadata can be flattened into a simpler =
CDNI metadata data model that removes some of the complexities required =
in a multi-tenanted provisioning data model as knowledge of how the CDNI =
Metadata got into the system (and who is allowed to do what at which =
level of the account hierarchy) is not needed when all the Surrogate =
cares about is if and how it should delivery the actual content.

So your assertion that a uCDN->dCDN interface automatically gives you a =
sufficient CP->uCDN interface does not IMO hold true.=20

It doesn't matter whether the CDNI Metadata interface is push from uCDN =
to dCDN or pull from dCDN to uCDN, what is required to build a =
sufficient CP-uCDN provisioning interface is much more than what is =
required purely for a sufficient CDNI Metadata interface. My opinion is =
we should concentrate on what we're chartered to do (which is a CDNI =
Metadata interface) and not try and expand that scope to be much wider =
than it is currently.

<snip>

>>> My concern with defining all the semantics of metadata and designing =
a
>>> protocol around that, is you typically end up with a less extensible
>>> design.  I would not want to have to update the metadata interface =
rfc
>>> just to support a new piece of metadata in the future.  I am not =
saying
>>> that we should not define metadata, I just think it should be =
separate
>>> from the data model and the protocol, so I concentrated on those =
first.
>>> I definitely feel that we should define a base set of metadata that =
all
>>> CDNs should support.  I do not think the draft prevents that.
>>=20
>> We agree on the fact that the CDNI metadata protocol specification =
doesn't
>> need to define all possible properties/semantics for all possible =
delivery
>> protocols and that properties and semantics for different delivery
>> protocols can be defined in separate documents.
>>=20
>> The CDNI metadata draft that Grant/David/I authored doesn't preclude
>> semantics/properties being defined in other documents (and implies =
that is
>> likely to be the case - see my response to Spencer just now). The =
base set
>> of properties that are described in our draft could easily be broken =
out
>> into a separate document if the consensus of the group is to do so. =
We
>> included the base properties and interface specification in a single
>> document so that readers could see how the interface could be =
constructed
>> and applied using a set of common base semantics/properties for HTTP
>> delivery supported by deployed CDNs today.
>>=20
>> So if we put aside the question of where to define the actual =
properties
>> and their semantics we're left with the data model and =
interface/protocol
>> itself. So let's compare and contrast some key aspects of flexibility
>> between the different proposals.
>>=20
>> Cache-ability & Latency:
>> With the CDNI Metadata model we've proposed we think we've managed to
>> define a data model that is as simple as possible but no simpler. It =
has a
>> minimum number of data objects to allow objects that are likely to to =
be
>> large or reused to be broken out into separate resources to provide
>> efficiency and at the same time objects that may well have different
>> cache-ability lifetimes can be broken out into separate resources. =
The
>> interface specification allows inlining so that all related objects =
for a
>> Site can be included in a single request/response so we provide the
>> ability to have a simple implementation but also the flexibility to
>> optimise the implementation to balance object size and cache-ability
>> against number of requests/re-validations required.
>=20
> The protocol in my draft also supports bulk retrieval, but if there is
> a nuance of inlining that is missing, I could certainly look at it.
> Though I did not address cacheability, I think it could be applied at
> the bulk response level as you describe?

My point was not that your proposal couldn't do bulk retrieval but that =
by having a data model that is "too simple" rather than having achieving =
your aim of a "more extensible" model/interface you actually have a =
model/interface that is less flexible and less extensible than ours.

Your model essentially ignores the reality that there are different =
types of CDNI Metadata which are likely to have different "lifetimes" =
(TTLs), different levels of reusability across CDN services & CPs and =
will contain varying amounts of data.

To give just one example: Think about the situation I mentioned earlier =
of a Reseller (or CDN provider) wanting to add their off-shore QA team =
to all Delivery ACLs to enable them to perform QA/troubleshooting/etc. =
Your model provides no ability (that I can see) to avoid having to list =
all the QA IP addresses against every every Metadata record (which are =
defined per URI) in every Domain that will be interconnected. That's a =
hell of a lot of unnecessary duplication.

>> By keeping your model basically flat you force an implementation to
>> repeatedly have to transfer data that is common across a number of
>> Hostnames/Domains (e.g. the definition of Locations) and you force =
the
>> cache-ability for all data within a hostname/domain to be the same =
whether
>> it is specific to a hostname/domain or common across multiple
>> hostnames/domains. You therefore do not provide any ability for
>> implementations to optimise based on their knowledge (or configured
>> policies)  of the different types of data that combine to describe =
the
>> CDNI Metadata for a Site/domain/hostname.
>>=20
>> Self-description:
>> The links between objects in our model and the representations of the
>> different objects in our model are self-describing through the use of
>> relationships and media-types within the interface so a client can =
easily
>> determine what data objects are being referenced and what data =
objects it
>> is receiving and use the appropriate processing function to interpret
>> their contents. It is easy to add new data objects to our model if
>> required by defining new relationships and/or media types. In =
contrast
>> your representations aren't self-describing and so force a tighter
>> coupling between the client and server and they require some out of =
band
>> process to ensure that coupling is maintained.
>=20
> The individual pieces of metadata have a defined type.  If the CDN
> supports a given piece of metadata, it will know what the type is.  =
The
> metadata distribution protocol, imo, does not need to know the type
> as long as the CDN who receives the metadata understands it?  Knowing
> the type is not necessarily enough information to know what to do with
> it, the full definition of the metadata is required either way?

I don't see anything in your proposal that indicates what the type (or =
protocol version) a particular piece of metadata has so I therefore =
assume it must be known by some other method (e.g. the protocol version =
is agreed out of band, the type is inferred from something) that has the =
consequence of requiring tighter coupling between client & server.

As an example, think through how if your proposal is deployed would you =
migrate to a newer version of the protocol and the level of explicit =
knowledge and coupling between clients & servers required to do so.

With self-describing objects and standard HTTP content negotiation to =
negotiate a version of the objects media-type that both client & server =
support it is, for example, possible to deploy a new protocol version of =
our proposal on the server without requiring any changes on the clients =
while retaining full backward compatibility. Clients than can be =
upgraded independently of one another over a period of time while still =
retaining backwards compatibility.

I don't see any way to do that with your proposal without requiring =
configuration on the server to tell it what version to expect from each =
client and updating that configuration in lock-step with updating the =
client requiring tight client/server coupling and coupled out of band =
configuration.
  =20
>> Bootstrapping & Coupling:
>> Similarly, with the CDNI Metadata interface/protocol we have =
proposed, the
>> configuration/bootstrapping of the interface is as simple as possible =
but
>> no simpler (a single URI) from which the dCDN can discover the =
location of
>> all the CDNI metadata records they have access to. It also allows the =
uCDN
>> to define the URI format (and hostname it's provided by) as they see =
fit.
>> The uCDN has maximum flexibility to organise the different CDNI =
metadata
>> objects and complete control over how they extend their =
implementation to
>> support additional data objects or how they support mapping different
>> dCDNs to different sets of (or versions of) CDNI metadata.
>>=20
>> Your proposal imposes a greater configuration/bootstrapping burden on =
the
>> dCDN as there is no way for it to discover the domains it has access =
to,
>> it needs to know the URI/hostname of the uCDN's Metadata interface =
and the
>> domains to query against that interface. The use of fixed paths in =
the URI
>> that map to the different data object enforces rigidity on the uCDN's =
CDNI
>> Metadata implementation (and tight coupling between the client and =
server)
>> and means that if the uCDN wishes to extend its implementation to =
support
>> additional objects it risks picking paths that may later clash with =
paths
>> defined by newer versions of your protocol.
>=20
> Your SiteFeed object provides Site information (which is fairly =
analogous
> to domain information).  Domain information could also be put into a =
feed,=20
> however, I assume that business processes drive what goes into the =
SiteFeed.

Of course it's possible to modify your proposal to look more like ours =
:-) but my overall argument is that our proposal does everything yours =
does in a more flexible & extensible way with the exception of defining =
an Agent object which isn't relevant to CDNI Metadata anyway.

> Is the SiteFeed configured offline, as part of some business process?
> If so, then is it better to configure Site information as a feed in
> the uCDN, or as domains in the dCDN.  I do not have a strong feeling
> either way, but I do not see our schemes as being so different.

They're not the same thing though. The SiteFeed enables a dCDN to =
bootstrap itself. Whether it is configured offline or automatically =
generated by the uCDN based on some configured policy and/or other data =
it has automatically obtained (e.g. another SiteFeed when the uCDN is =
acting as a dCDN for another CDN) is an implementation decision for each =
individual CDN.

Your proposal doesn't include a proposal for bootstrapping unless you're =
suggesting the uCDN POST Domains into the dCDN in advance of the dCDN =
requiring the associated CDNI Metadata (but your draft doesn't propose =
that so I'm just guessing)?

Ben

>=20
> thanx.
>=20
> --  Kevin J. Ma
>=20
>> Taking the above factors into consideration I believe that our =
proposed
>> data model and interface specification is flexible and extensible =
enough
>> to address the current and future needs of CDNI.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 24 07:35:32 2011
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Will,

Thanks for reviewing the draft & proposed changes, my opinion is inline =
below.

On 19 Oct 2011, at 10:24, Will Li(jincheng) wrote:

> Hi, Ben,
>=20
> Thank you for the efforts. Two more comments.
> 1) In section 3, do you think it is helpful to add some description on =
each role (i.e. CP, Upstream CDN, Downstream CDN), and their business =
relationships assumed in CDNI?
>  This could facilitate people to understand the figure and the draft =
better.

The different roles are defined as part of the terminology in Section =
1.1.

I don't think the Problem Statement draft should try to describe the =
different business relationships as they are many and varied depending =
on things like the purpose of the specific CDN, the market it is =
deployed in etc and it would be very difficult to describe all the =
different business relationships and we would risk getting distracted by =
comments along the lines of "what about this business relationship that =
you haven't described" and "you haven't adequately captured how this =
relationship could work" etc.

Section 1.2 already states that "Readers are assumed to be familiar with =
the architecture, features and operation of CDNs." and I assume if =
readers already have that familiarity with how CDNs work & are operated =
then they can understand how CSPs, upstream CDNs, downstream CDNs may =
fit together as part of the CDNI reference model.
=20
>=20
> 2)Another editorial one: In bullet 5 of your previous mail, changing =
ITU to ITU-T could be more specific.

Good catch! I will use ITU-T when I update the draft.

Ben

>=20
> BR, Will=20
>=20
> -----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
> =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Ben Niven-Jenkins
> =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA10=D4=C217=C8=D5 19:08
> =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org
> =D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] Preparing draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement for =
WG Last Call
>=20
> Colleagues,
>=20
> At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.
>=20
> As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.
>=20
> Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I =
have highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that =
you think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the =
document is ready for a WG Last Call.
>=20
> 1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
>   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
> NEW:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].
>=20
>=20
> 2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
>   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
>   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
>   leverage.=20
> NEW:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface =
individually
>   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
>   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20
>=20
>=20
> 3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".
>=20
> 4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities for Content Acquisition (section =
5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) but there are not sections for the =
other CDNI interfaces (Control, Logging, Request Routing).
>=20
> The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.
>=20
> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>=20
> OLD:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
> NEW:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).
>=20
> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>=20
> OLD:
>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
> NEW:
>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>      CDNs.
>=20
> 6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
>   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
>   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
>   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
>   - RFC2119
>=20
> After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am =
not convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those =
documents normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a =
context where they are for further information and the Problem Statement =
does not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.
>=20
> Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 24 07:41:27 2011
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Colleagues,

The deadline for submitting Internet-Drafts prior to IETF82 is only a =
week away and I would like to have a new version of the CDNI Problem =
Statement published in time for discussion during IETF82.

So far I've only seen comments from Will Li. If you have any comments or =
opinions on the changes/updates I propose below please can you send them =
this week (but the sooner the better).

In the absence of any further comments I will assume that no one objects =
to the proposals and update the Problem Statement and publish the =
updated version before the deadline on Monday.

Thanks
Ben

On 17 Oct 2011, at 12:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

> Colleagues,
>=20
> At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.
>=20
> As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.
>=20
> Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I =
have highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that =
you think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the =
document is ready for a WG Last Call.
>=20
> 1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
>   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
> NEW:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].
>=20
>=20
> 2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
>   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
>   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
>   leverage.=20
> NEW:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface =
individually
>   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
>   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20
>=20
>=20
> 3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".
>=20
> 4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities for Content Acquisition (section =
5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) but there are not sections for the =
other CDNI interfaces (Control, Logging, Request Routing).
>=20
> The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.
>=20
> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>=20
> OLD:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
> NEW:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).
>=20
> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>=20
> OLD:
>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
> NEW:
>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>      CDNs.
>=20
> 6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
>   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
>   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
>   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
>   - RFC2119
>=20
> After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am =
not convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those =
documents normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a =
context where they are for further information and the Problem Statement =
does not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.
>=20
> Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From flefauch@cisco.com  Mon Oct 24 10:03:58 2011
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Hello All,

We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their =
request for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.

Regards,
Francois & Rich


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<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hello All,<br><br>We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their request for a slot at&nbsp;our WG meeting planned for IETF82.<br><br>Regards,<br>Francois &amp; Rich<br><div apple-content-edited="true">
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From sprevidi@cisco.com  Mon Oct 24 10:12:50 2011
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From: stefano previdi <sprevidi@cisco.com>
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Francois, Rich,

We have submitted following draft. I'd like to request a slot=20
on the next meeting agenda so to present it.

Thanks.

s.

Begin forwarded message:
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-previdi-cdni-footprint-advertisement-00.txt
> Date: October 24, 2011 5:57:54 PM GMT+02:00
> To: sprevidi@cisco.com
> Cc: jmedved@juniper.net, flefauch@cisco.com, allan.guillou@sfr.com, =
sprevidi@cisco.com
>=20
> A new version of I-D, =
draft-previdi-cdni-footprint-advertisement-00.txt has been successfully =
submitted by Stefano Previdi and posted to the IETF repository.
>=20
> Filename:	 draft-previdi-cdni-footprint-advertisement
> Revision:	 00
> Title:		 CDNI Footprint Advertisement
> Creation date:	 2011-10-24
> WG ID:		 Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 18
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document describes the use of BGP for Content Delivery Networks
>   (CDNs) in order to advertise information about footprint and
>   connectivity to footprint in the context of CDNI.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20

On Oct 24, 2011, at 7:03 PM, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:

> Hello All,
>=20
> We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their =
request for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.
>=20
> Regards,
> Francois & Rich
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From mcaulfie@cisco.com  Mon Oct 24 11:34:48 2011
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Hello everyone,

Just finished uploading a new I-D describing a proposal for the core set
of CDNI metadata:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-caulfield-cdni-metadata-core-00

Although we have not yet studied the other metadata drafts in depth, we
believe that our draft is complimentary to draft-ma-cdni-metadata and
has some overlap with draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata.

Thanks,
Matt & Kent



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Hello,

As per the final agenda =
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/82/agenda.html), the CDNI WG =
session has been moved to :
	WEDNESDAY, November 16, 2011
	09:00 - 11:30

Cheers

Francois & Rich

On 14 Oct 2011, at 04:30, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:

> Hi,
>=20
> Note that as per the _draft_ agenda =
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/82/agenda.html), the CDNI WG =
session is tentatively scheduled:
> 	THURSDAY, November 17, 2011
> 	15:20-17:20
>=20
> This is still subject to potential change.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Francois
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From emile.stephan@orange.com  Mon Oct 24 14:15:04 2011
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Hi

I uploaded a draft that we just achieved. It proposes a framework for =
the exchange of content distribution metadata based between an upstream =
CDN and a downstream CDN.

=20

Abstract

   There are use cases where the delivery of contents by a CDN on the
   behalf of another requires the exchange of extra information between
   these CDNs.  This memo proposes a RESTful framework for the exchange
   of content distribution metadata between an upstream and a downstream
   CDN.  Then it applies this framework to the use cases selected by te
   CDNi WG [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases] to identify relevant operations,
   objects and information elements of the CDNi metadata interface and
   to verify that the RESTful approach suits for these operations.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-=
00.txt=20

Regards
Emile                =20

-----Message d'origine-----
De=A0: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de =
internet-drafts@ietf.org
Envoy=E9=A0: lundi 24 octobre 2011 23:09
=C0=A0: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Objet=A0: I-D Action: draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.

	Title           : metadata for CDNs Interconnection
	Author(s)       : Stephan Emile
                          Bertrand Gilles
                          Fieau Frederic
                          Pages Remi
	Filename        : draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-00.txt
	Pages           : 42
	Date            : 2011-10-24

   There are use cases where the delivery of contents by a CDN on the
   behalf of another requires the exchange of extra information between
   these CDNs.  This memo proposes a RESTful framework for the exchange
   of content distribution metadata between an upstream and a downstream
   CDN.  Then it applies this framework to the use cases selected by te
   CDNi WG [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases] to identify relevant operations,
   objects and information elements of the CDNi metadata interface and
   to verify that the RESTful approach suits for these operations.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-=
00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-0=
0.txt
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:46:58 +0800
From: HeXiaoyan <hexiaoyan@huawei.com>
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Hi Francois & Rich,

I'd like to request a slot on the next meeting to present the following
draft.

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protocol-00.txt=


=20

Thanks.

Best Regards

Xiaoyan(Susan) He

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED Francois
Le Faucheur
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2011=C4=EA10=D4=C225=C8=D5 1:04
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: cdni@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots

=20

Hello All,

We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their =
request
for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.

Regards,
Francois & Rich

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Francois &amp; Rich,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I'd like to request a slot on =
the next
meeting to present the following draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-protoco=
l-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-xiaoyan-cdni-request-routing-proto=
col-00.txt</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'>Best Regards</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;
color:#1F497D'>Xiaoyan(Susan) He</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
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an
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[CDNi]
IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello All,<br>
<br>
We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their =
request for
a slot at&nbsp;our WG meeting planned for IETF82.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Francois &amp; Rich<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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From dgriffin@ee.ucl.ac.uk  Tue Oct 25 03:29:10 2011
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Subject: [CDNi] draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi all,

The draft below has been uploaded to catalogue further CDNi use cases 
arising from ongoing research in several projects who are active in 
content distribution topics. The idea is to highlight some important 
issues for interconnecting CDNs beyond the use cases being used to drive 
the initial work of the WG, which we believe are highly relevant to the 
future direction of CDNi.

Best regards,

David


------------------------------

A new version of I-D, draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases-00.txt has been 
successfully submitted by Theodore Zahariadis and posted to the IETF 
repository.

Filename:	 draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases
Revision:	 00
Title:		 Catalogue of Advanced Use Cases for Content Delivery Network 
Interconnection
Creation date:	 2011-10-24
WG ID:		 Individual Submission
Number of pages: 14

Abstract:
    The purpose of this draft is to complement the current CDNi WG use-
    cases with a catalogue of advanced, longer-term CDN interconnection
    use cases. The work has been the contribution of six European
    Commission (EC) co-funded projects, which are part of the EC Future
    Media networks (FMN) cluster.


 


From Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu  Tue Oct 25 03:40:11 2011
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From: Jan Seedorf <Jan.Seedorf@neclab.eu>
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Dear Francois and Rich,

I would like to present the draft I submitted on ALTO for CDNi Request Rout=
ing (draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00), see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00.

As this is obviously relevant for ALTO as well, I have put the ALTO chairs =
in CC. It may well be that the draft should rather be presented in the ALTO=
 WG, and I would be fine with that (presenting in ALTO and not in CDNi).


-          Jan

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fra=
ncois Le Faucheur
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:04 PM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots

Hello All,

We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their request =
for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.

Regards,
Francois & Rich


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dear Francois and Rich,<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I would like to present the draft I submitted on=
 ALTO for CDNi Request Routing (draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00),
 see <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00">=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-seedorf-alto-for-cdni-00</a>.<o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As this is obviously relevant for ALTO as well, =
I have put the ALTO chairs in CC. It may well be that the draft
 should rather be presented in the ALTO WG, and I would be fine with that (=
presenting in ALTO and not in CDNi).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
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in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<font size=3D"1" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f4=
97d" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Jan<o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Calibri">=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;font-=
weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"> cdni-bounces@ietf.org
 [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">On Beha=
lf Of </span>
</b>Francois Le Faucheur<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, October 24, 20=
11 7:04 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [CDNi] IETF82 - CDN=
I WG requests for slots<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Hello All,<br>
<br>
We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their request =
for a slot at&nbsp;our WG meeting planned for IETF82.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Francois &amp; Rich<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
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From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Wed Oct 26 06:37:31 2011
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From: Alan Kavanagh <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>
To: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 09:37:02 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>, ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Kevin/Ben

I know im late punting this out, but felt its important we clarify this in =
the use case document.

Isnt it more the case that the CP does a business agreement with a CDN prov=
ider to ensure he can deliver the content in a number of format and screen =
density types and if this CDN provider is unable to do so the CP would not =
do a business agreement with this CDN Provider in the first place.=20

Similarly, today a lot of CP's provide one Video Source and while I agree w=
ith Ben that encoding is done outside the delivery node itself its typicall=
y part of the CDN eco-system from my point of view. Yes both models exist b=
ut then both should be captured in the use case document. This is important=
 to convey another major benefit of CDN and CDN-I thus that CP delivers one=
 high video source to the uCDN and that CDN is responsible for content deli=
very in a number of format and screen density types etc. Similarly and I be=
lieve Kevin Ma and other raised this at the Quebec IETF meeting in that CDN=
-I should cover supporting transcoding, the main advantage is see is that t=
he uCDN delivers one high video source to the dCDN and that in turns does t=
he transcoding instead of having to fetch the same file x number of times w=
hen it doesn't do the transcoding. I see this more so for Broadcast TV etc =
so imho its something that should be in the CDN-I scope and somehow conveye=
d in the appropriate docs.

Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kev=
in J Ma
Sent: October-11-11 12:04 PM
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben,

  The restriction is not that content "absolutely must be delivered by a
  different CDN", the restriction is that content should only be delivered
  in specific formats to specific end users, and certain users may only
  get access through specific CDNs.  This can be (and is) enforced today by
  using different CDNs (e.g., separate CDNs for TV vs mobile).  Once those
  two CDNs combine, it removes an inherent physical restriction, which some
  CPs may have been relying on.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Kevin,
>=20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 15:48, Kevin J Ma wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Ben,
> >
> >  I do not disagree with the statements made below, however, I think =20
> > that there is one point that is missing: in a non-interconnected =20
> > world, CPs can (and do) put different representations into different =20
> > CDNs, knowing that representation-A will not be accessible via CDN-B.
> >  It is true that the CDN did not make any decision, the CP did,=20
> > however,  the enforcement is based on the fact that those CDNs will=20
> > not share  with each other and are physically separated.  With CDNI,=20
> > if the uCDN  has access to all representations but the CP needs to=20
> > enforce that  specific dCDNs only have access to subsets of=20
> > representations (due to  content licensing restrictions), enforcing=20
> > that probably requires  metadata to describe those delivery restriction=
s?
>=20
> I'd like to understand these requirements better as I am aware of=20
> Content Providers that choose to use different CDNs for different=20
> representations based on business policy and I think that can be=20
> solved at the business agreement level in the same way as dealing with=20
> what delivery protocols or delivery footprint the Content Provider requir=
es.
>=20
> I am aware of licensing agreements that restrict what geographies=20
> content can be delivered from and what geographies content can be deliver=
ed to.
> Such requirements are already handled by the metadata proposal I co-=20
> authored through the use of SelectionACL & DeliveryACLs.
>=20
> However, I've not heard of a licensing agreement that mandated that=20
> some representations of a piece of content absolutely must be=20
> delivered by a different CDN to other representations of the same content=
.
>=20
> Can you expand on the motivation and drivers behind that requirement?
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
> >> Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 9:26 AM
> >> To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
> >> Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
> >> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11 Oct 2011, at 13:12, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> While I am neutral to the Content Adaptation discussion, I would=20
> >>> like
> to
> >> make sure that we do not throw out all features related to multiple=20
> >> representations, which would happen if we would just remove section
> 5.1.3
> >> completely as suggested by Ben.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion as removing section 5.1.3
> does
> >> not throw out the ability to support multiple representations IMO.
> >>
> >>> The previous version of the use case document (betrand-02) had a
> >> slightly different wording in section 2.4 than is now being used in=20
> >> section 5.1  of the new WG-version. I think the concept of=20
> >> resolution- based constraints, that was included in betrand-02,=20
> >> should remain in
> some
> >> form. While it is not the CDNs responsibility/decision whether to=20
> >> allow
> a
> >> specific representation to be delivered, I think a use case in=20
> >> which
> some
> >> dCDN only offers a subset of the representations available on the=20
> >> uCDN
> is
> >> quite valid (such as in a dedicated mobile CDN).
> >>
> >> I don't believe that dCDNs will only offer a subset of=20
> >> representations
> in
> >> the way you describe. They may only deliver to a subset of users=20
> >> (and maybe by implication a subset of possible devices) for example=20
> >> as a consequence of  them being a dedicated mobile CDN (as opposed=20
> >> to an
> active
> >> decision they make).
> >>
> >> Let's look at how a content service is deployed. A Content Provider=20
> >> has some content (let's say a video) that the Content Provider may=20
> >> produce
> in
> >> a variety of representations (codecs, bit rates, resolutions, etc.).
> They
> >> may do that encoding themselves or outsource it (although that's=20
> >> not relevant to the point I'm making).
> >>
> >> A User will connect to the Content Provider's "portal" (which may=20
> >> be a
> web
> >> portal, an application, an EPG etc.). The Content Provider (through
> their
> >> portal) will offer the User the content in one or more of the=20
> >> available representations (e.g. by device type but how that=20
> >> decision is made is purely up to the Content Provider). The User=20
> >> selects a representation
> and
> >> the Content Provider offloads the delivery of that representation=20
> >> to
> the
> >> CDN (e.g. by returning the appropriate URI for that representation
> within
> >> the CDN to the User's client). The User then connects to the CDN=20
> >> and requests the representation they have selected (from the choice=20
> >> of representations offered to them by the Content Provider).
> >>
> >> At its essence a CDN maps incoming URIs (from User's clients) to
> specific
> >> content files on an upstream source (e.g. on-net storage or a=20
> >> Content Provider's Origin server) it has no explicit knowledge of=20
> >> what actual content that specific URI maps to or that it is one of=20
> >> X possible representations of the same content.
> >>
> >> At no point has the CDN been involved in the selection or=20
> >> restriction
> of
> >> the representations offered to or delivered to the User. In a CDNI=20
> >> scenario things are no different. A uCDN may select a dCDN based on
> some
> >> capability (e.g. what Users it can deliver to, what delivery=20
> >> protocols
> it
> >> can support) but I do not think that the specific representation of=20
> >> the content will enter into the equation beyond those constraints.
> >>
> >> For example, the dCDN is not going to say "I can only deliver=20
> >> representations with resolutions below AxB" and the uCDN often will=20
> >> not even know what the resolution or a particular representation is.
> >>
> >> What might happen is that a User on a particular network (or using=20
> >> a particular client/device) connects to the Content Provider's=20
> >> portal and
> is
> >> only offered a subset of the possible representations tailored (by=20
> >> the Content Provider's policy implemented in the Content Provider's=20
> >> portal) based on that User's Network/Client/Device. A dCDN may=20
> >> subsequently be selected that can serve that Network/Client/Service=20
> >> and that dCDN may
> only
> >> end up delivering to its Users a subset of all the possible=20
> >> representations the Content Provider has produced. But that is a=20
> >> consequence of the Network/Clients/Devices the dCDN is capable of
> serving,
> >> not an explicit decision made by the dCDN and communicated to the=20
> >> uCDN
> for
> >> that specific Content Provider's service.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CDNi mailing list
> >> CDNi@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>,  "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots
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--000e0ce0f7b4f52a2804b0349d34
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Francois and Rich,

I would like to request a slot for the following draft. Thanks.

Filename:
draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs<http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs-00.txt>
Revision:        00
Title:           Additional Content Distribution Network Interconnection
(CDNI) Requirements Based on ATIS CSF
Creation date:   2011-10-21
WG ID:           Individual Submission
Number of pages: 9

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Francois Le Faucheur
<flefauch@cisco.com>wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their request
> for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.
>
> Regards,
> Francois & Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
>


-- 
--Serge

--000e0ce0f7b4f52a2804b0349d34
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Francois and Rich,<div><br></div><div>I would like to request a slot for th=
e following draft. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-st=
yle-span" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; backgro=
und-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; back=
ground-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: i=
nitial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; background-posit=
ion: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; ">Filename: =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-manning-cdni-additional-=
csf-reqs-00.txt" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: rgb(195, 57, 11); ">draf=
t-manning-cdni-additional-csf-reqs</a></span></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10pt; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; backgro=
und-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: white; bac=
kground-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b=
r>
<span>Revision: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A000</span><br><span>Title: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 Additional Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) Requirem=
ents Based on ATIS CSF</span><br><span>Creation date: =A0 2011-10-21</span>=
<br><span>WG ID: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Individual Submission</span><br>
<span>Number of pages: 9</span></span></span><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Francois Le Faucheur <span dir=3D"lt=
r">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com">flefauch@cisco.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Hello A=
ll,<br><br>We&#39;d like to ask any interested parties to let us know about=
 their request for a slot at=A0our WG meeting planned for IETF82.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Francois &amp; Rich<br><div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family:Times"></span></div></div><br></div><br>___=
____________________________________________<br>
CDNi mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>--Serge<=
br><br>
</div>

--000e0ce0f7b4f52a2804b0349d34--

From dgriffin@ee.ucl.ac.uk  Wed Oct 26 07:49:08 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots
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Hi Francois, Rich,

We would like to request a slot for 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases-00

Best regards,

David

On 24/10/2011 18:03, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their 
> request for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.
> 
> Regards,
> Francois & Rich
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Wed Oct 26 12:11:59 2011
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From: Alan Kavanagh <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>
To: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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Hi Zhou

Slowly catching up on all these CDN-I emails :-)

I fully agree with your assertion here, I had the same puzzlement when read=
ing the use cases and looking at the lat few "hundred plus" emails on this.

To me a core functionality of CDN's as Ben et.al has pointed out is to redu=
ce cost, sending 1 stream as opposed to 10 streams is definitely a core req=
uirement and a core use case for CDN-I too.

Somewhat orthogonal to the use cases, but a case I feel is missing from the=
 current metadata drafts I have read is to define this case of supporting t=
ranscoding for CDN-I. It makes perfect sense that CDN-I must support this s=
cenario so that CDN's leverage on cost reduction by supporting transcoding.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zho=
uZhipeng
Sent: October-12-11 5:23 AM
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user onl=
y desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user=
.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transfo=
rm to the format as the user select.
In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP we=
bsite.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your ass=
ert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the disc=
ussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever rais=
ed an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media=
 transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core fu=
nctionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take de=
ep look.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related servic=
e. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their re=
quirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnec=
tion, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the =
voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media format=
s.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in F=
rance.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of one=
 content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y whil=
e CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the c=
ost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in s=
olution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation =
to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the p=
rice from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select on=
e CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is no=
t a core functionality.

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN provid=
ers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as=
 required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,=
 the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection=
 may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct th=
at the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type",=
 etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the=
 issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
>
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am =
not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it=
 support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone =
to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice =
to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transfe=
rred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, righ=
t.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this=
 case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks be=
ing interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the ne=
gotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the =
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. =
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representat=
ions the User/Client decides to request.

> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uC=
DN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers=
 one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multipl=
e media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function requi=
red to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delive=
ry).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of=
 the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpr=
etation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter)=
 because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start=
 trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs=
 support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications int=
o the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is need=
ed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be grante=
d by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the inform=
ation related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should =
be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" b=
ut I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may=
 save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile =
service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may supp=
ort different service systems.
>
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to im=
plement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in=
 future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc=
 than for the Use cases draft.
>
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cop=
e with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to sig=
nal about this.
>
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie =
we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't k=
now, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial=
" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenari=
os as well?
>
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adap=
tation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
> rather out of scope(?)
>
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is t=
ransitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN =
trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. Howeve=
r, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to sa=
y that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
>
> Best wishes
> phil
>
>
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
>
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidenti=
al. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're =
not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or =
using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in erro=
r, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We=
 monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
> England no: 1800000
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Colleagues,
>
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Ada=
ptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to=
 another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which =
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge=
 of what that content actually is.
>
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN i=
s only one component and is the component tasked with executing the deliver=
y of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected c=
ontent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which=
 version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
>
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow t=
o be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.=
g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior=
 to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
>
> Ben
>
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description =
on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with=
 different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>>
>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific dev=
ices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken s=
ome email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area =
to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN=
 service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments =
or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in t=
he use case draft.
>>
>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>  This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
>> scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
>> content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.
>> The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A;
>> however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are allowed to
>> retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.
>>
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions  Need to clarify if we're
>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content or
>> the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific content.
>> I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict the
>> distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is HD
>> while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>
>>  o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>> DASH)  o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media  o third bullet make sense
>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
>> arrangement for distribution)
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>> content)
>>
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
>> appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended
>> hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods,
>> but transparency is only afforded if the methods are interoperable
>> clearly defined when the delegation for content delivery is executed.
>> Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respec=
tive CDN's.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Wed Oct 26 12:33:51 2011
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Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization betwee=
n CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers=
 particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben=
 Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user o=
nly desires to get his selected content.
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the us=
er.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CD=
N to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then trans=
form to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our o=
bjective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on wh=
at is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an En=
d User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 mon=
ths).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your a=
ssert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the di=
scussion).
>
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever ra=
ised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting med=
ia transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core =
functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take =
deep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.

> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related serv=
ice. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their =
requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconn=
ection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how th=
e voice is transformed in process.
>
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media form=
ats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in=
 France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y=
).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CD=
N-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the=
 cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in=
 solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformatio=
n to output 10 streams.
>
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the=
 price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select =
one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is =
not a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workin=
gs of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not thi=
nk we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions withi=
n the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben

> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN prov=
iders should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types =
as required by the market.
>
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnectio=
n, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnecti=
on may not be operated.
>
> Br,
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Zhipeng,
>
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
>> Ben and Philip,
>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>>
>> Ben,
>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct t=
hat the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type"=
, etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether th=
e issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
>>
>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am=
 not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim i=
t support different medias.
>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone=
 to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice=
 to G.711.
>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transf=
erred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, rig=
ht.
>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to thi=
s case above.
>
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks =
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the =
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and th=
e CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated=
. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations th=
e Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what represent=
ations the User/Client decides to request.
>
>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " u=
CDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN deliver=
s one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multip=
le media types".
>
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function req=
uired to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that deli=
very).
>
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection =
of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my inter=
pretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charte=
r) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not sta=
rt trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CD=
Ns support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications i=
nto the market in a timely fashion IMO.
>
> Ben
>
>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
>> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is nee=
ded to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be grant=
ed by the content owner.
>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the infor=
mation related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should=
 be protected also.
>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>>
>> Philip,
>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" =
but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it ma=
y save investment if the system may support different services.
>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile=
 service and another system for the FBB service.
>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may sup=
port different service systems.
>>
>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to i=
mplement this is rather simple .
>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred i=
n future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>
>> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>>
>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements do=
c than for the Use cases draft.
>>
>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to co=
pe with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to si=
gnal about this.
>>
>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie=
 we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't =
know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initia=
l" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenar=
ios as well?
>>
>> Scott,
>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content ada=
ptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
>> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
>> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
>> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
>> rather out of scope(?)
>>
>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is =
transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN=
 trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. Howev=
er, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to s=
ay that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> phil
>>
>>
>> Philip Eardley
>> Research and Technology Strategy
>>
>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confident=
ial. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're=
 not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or=
 using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in err=
or, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. W=
e monitor our email system, and may record your emails.
>> British Telecommunications plc
>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
>> England no: 1800000
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Ad=
aptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it t=
o another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which=
 typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledg=
e of what that content actually is.
>>
>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN =
is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delive=
ry of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected =
content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on whic=
h version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
>>
>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow =
to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e=
.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prio=
r to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>
>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description=
 on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content wit=
h different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>>>
>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific de=
vices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area=
 to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CD=
N service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments=
 or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in =
the use case draft.
>>>
>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>
>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
>>> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
>>> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
>>> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
>>> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
>>> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.
>>>
>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
>>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
>>> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
>>> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
>>> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
>>> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
>>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
>>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>>
>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>>> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
>>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>>
>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>>
>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>>
>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contrac=
t
>>> arrangement for distribution)
>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>>> content)
>>>
>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
>>> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
>>> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
>>> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
>>> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
>>> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
>>> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective CDN's.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>

_______________________________________________
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Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on =
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
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- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
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On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Ben,
>> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
>> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by =
the user.
>> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask =
the CDN to deliver to user.
>> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
>> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
>>=20
>> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have =
ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
>> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
>>=20
>> Besides, I like raise a case:
>> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
>> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are =
located in France.
>> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
>> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
>> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream =
to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
>> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
>> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; =
while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
>>=20
>> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
>> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
>>=20
>> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
>>=20
>> Br,
>> Zhipeng
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Zhipeng,
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>=20
>>> Ben and Philip,
>>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>>>=20
>>> Ben,
>>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
>>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely =
correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN =
system.
>>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure =
whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the =
core of CDN.
>>>=20
>>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", =
I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
>>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
>>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
>>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
>>=20
>> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
>>=20
>>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way =
" uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
>>=20
>> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
>>=20
>> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
>>> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
>>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
>>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>>>=20
>>> Philip,
>>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since =
it may save investment if the system may support different services.
>>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
>>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
>>>=20
>>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that =
to implement this is rather simple .
>>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be =
referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>>>=20
>>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.
>>>=20
>>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able =
to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN =
& to signal about this.
>>>=20
>>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?
>>>=20
>>> Scott,
>>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
>>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
>>> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
>>> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
>>> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
>>> rather out of scope(?)
>>>=20
>>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
>>>=20
>>> Best wishes
>>> phil
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Philip Eardley
>>> Research and Technology Strategy
>>>=20
>>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
>>> British Telecommunications plc
>>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
>>> England no: 1800000
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Colleagues,
>>>=20
>>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. =
Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and =
transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>>>=20
>>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>>>=20
>>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>>>=20
>>> Ben
>>>=20
>>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>>>>=20
>>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to =
specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Zhipeng
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>>>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>>>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>>>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
>>>> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
>>>> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different
>>>> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
>>>> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
>>>> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're
>>>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
>>>> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
>>>> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
>>>> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
>>>> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if
>>>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery
>>>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>>>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>>>=20
>>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>>>> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>>>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
>>>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>>>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>>>=20
>>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>>>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>>>=20
>>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
>>>> arrangement for distribution)
>>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>>>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>>>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>>>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>>>> content)
>>>>=20
>>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>>>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>>>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
>>>> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
>>>> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
>>>> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
>>>> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
>>>> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
>>>> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method =
is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>>>=20
>>>> Scott
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CDNi mailing list
>>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi =
Alan,<div><br></div><div>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now =
is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus =
on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from =
content adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick =
with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this =
could be a discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this =
be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first =
specs as fast as possible. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div><div><span =
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">Kind regards,<br><br>Mark de Jong<br>International Business =
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Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, =
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Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, =
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face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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</div></span></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
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Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
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font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></=
span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></di=
v></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based on your comments =
below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of =
the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are pointing out =
below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel =
that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what =
collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that =
content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very =
important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Hello Ben,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only =
desires to get his selected content.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The CP =
may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to =
deliver to user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CP may =
give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the =
format as the user select.<br></blockquote><br>Lots of things may be =
possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top =
of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based =
on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is =
necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End =
User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">As for "the =
core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an =
email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen service.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<br></blockquote><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">I =
guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in =
process.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Besides, I like =
raise a case:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Given currently =
BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">One candidate is your =
company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So both your company =
and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">If your =
company's solution is to send 10 streams of different =
format<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">of one content to =
CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y =
may conduct some adaptation.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, =
absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 streams.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Which solution =
is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from =
BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN =
provider with the lower price.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it =
may say it is not a core functionality.<br></blockquote><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, if we =
all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers =
should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as =
required by the market.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Back to the =
case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the =
transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection =
may not be operated.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Br,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: Ben =
Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 =
AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 11 Oct 2011, =
at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben and Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to respond your concern =
in this one email:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I feel what we are now =
discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN system.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">What means service. It should =
include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all =
the core feature for a service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If we only concern "delivering =
one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" =
"geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For "without explicit knowledge =
of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is =
accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case above.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I don't think =
your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being =
interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the =
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and =
the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what =
representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Now what you're =
talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to =
actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">My position is =
that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core =
CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation =
of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) =
because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not =
start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority =
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable =
specifications into the market in a timely fashion =
IMO.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself =
but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected =
also.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not =
for Use case.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to clarify to U that it =
is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different services.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I =
remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather =
simple .<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and comments.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: RE: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that Content Adaptation =
is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) =
HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or =
whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But these sorts of examples seem =
to be static policy things (to =
do<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather than<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy =
stuff is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">rather out of =
scope(?)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Best =
wishes<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">phil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Philip =
Eardley<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">Research and Technology =
Strategy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This email contains BT =
information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only =
for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">British Telecommunications =
plc<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">England no: =
1800000<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">To: ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Colleagues,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be =
removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a =
content item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically =
delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of =
what that content actually is.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Let's not forget that in =
building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and =
is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
"portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the =
CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If one =
movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Here =
the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content =
adaptation.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some =
email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I have =
shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising =
your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If you =
have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: =
Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 =
AM<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
2.3 Nomadic Users<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This =
description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">yet =
the third paragraph states the case where a different device =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">used =
in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">needs =
to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">access =
to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">region. =
&nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User-A; =
however, not other users in the region of the dCDN =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowed =
to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">talking =
about the restrictions on the delivery of specific =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">or the =
restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">content.=
 &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">HD =
while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">such =
content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowing=
 the distribution of SD =
content.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">o =
first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">DASH) =
o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">offer =
high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make =
sense<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">if the =
policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">rights/authorizations =
apply.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
10 Security =
Considerations<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Aside =
from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">think =
we can describe this in four =
contexts:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">a. The =
relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">arrangement for =
distribution)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">b. The =
relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">download=
 predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User =
and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">content)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">user =
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might use<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">URL =
appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">appended=
 hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">delivery=
 is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective =
CDN's.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing =
list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi =
mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________=
________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni<br>_______________________________________________<br>=
CDNi mailing =
list<br>CDNi@ietf.org<br>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni<br><br=
></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on =
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
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- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Ben,
>> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
>> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by =
the user.
>> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask =
the CDN to deliver to user.
>> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
>> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
>>=20
>> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have =
ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
>> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
>>=20
>> Besides, I like raise a case:
>> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
>> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are =
located in France.
>> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
>> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
>> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream =
to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
>> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
>> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; =
while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
>>=20
>> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
>> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
>>=20
>> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
>>=20
>> Br,
>> Zhipeng
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Zhipeng,
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>=20
>>> Ben and Philip,
>>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>>>=20
>>> Ben,
>>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
>>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely =
correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN =
system.
>>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure =
whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the =
core of CDN.
>>>=20
>>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", =
I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
>>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
>>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
>>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
>>=20
>> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
>>=20
>>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way =
" uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
>>=20
>> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
>>=20
>> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
>>> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
>>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
>>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>>>=20
>>> Philip,
>>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since =
it may save investment if the system may support different services.
>>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
>>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
>>>=20
>>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that =
to implement this is rather simple .
>>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be =
referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>>>=20
>>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.
>>>=20
>>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able =
to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN =
& to signal about this.
>>>=20
>>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?
>>>=20
>>> Scott,
>>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
>>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
>>> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
>>> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
>>> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
>>> rather out of scope(?)
>>>=20
>>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
>>>=20
>>> Best wishes
>>> phil
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Philip Eardley
>>> Research and Technology Strategy
>>>=20
>>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
>>> British Telecommunications plc
>>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
>>> England no: 1800000
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Colleagues,
>>>=20
>>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. =
Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and =
transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>>>=20
>>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>>>=20
>>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>>>=20
>>> Ben
>>>=20
>>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>>>>=20
>>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to =
specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Zhipeng
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>>>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>>>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>>>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
>>>> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
>>>> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different
>>>> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
>>>> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
>>>> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're
>>>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
>>>> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
>>>> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
>>>> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
>>>> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if
>>>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery
>>>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>>>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>>>=20
>>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>>>> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>>>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
>>>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>>>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>>>=20
>>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>>>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>>>=20
>>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
>>>> arrangement for distribution)
>>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>>>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>>>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>>>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>>>> content)
>>>>=20
>>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>>>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>>>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
>>>> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
>>>> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
>>>> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
>>>> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
>>>> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
>>>> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method =
is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>>>=20
>>>> Scott
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CDNi mailing list
>>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi =
Alan,<div><br></div><div>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now =
is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus =
on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from =
content adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick =
with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this =
could be a discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this =
be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first =
specs as fast as possible. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
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Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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iv><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
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">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
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download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</span></font></div><div =
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"><br></span></font></div></span></span></font></div></span></span></font>=
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iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></=
span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></di=
v></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based on your comments =
below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of =
the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are pointing out =
below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel =
that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what =
collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that =
content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very =
important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Hello Ben,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only =
desires to get his selected content.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The CP =
may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to =
deliver to user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CP may =
give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the =
format as the user select.<br></blockquote><br>Lots of things may be =
possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top =
of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based =
on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is =
necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End =
User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">As for "the =
core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an =
email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen service.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<br></blockquote><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">I =
guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in =
process.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Besides, I like =
raise a case:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Given currently =
BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">One candidate is your =
company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So both your company =
and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">If your =
company's solution is to send 10 streams of different =
format<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">of one content to =
CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y =
may conduct some adaptation.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, =
absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 streams.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Which solution =
is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from =
BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN =
provider with the lower price.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it =
may say it is not a core functionality.<br></blockquote><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, if we =
all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers =
should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as =
required by the market.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Back to the =
case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the =
transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection =
may not be operated.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Br,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: Ben =
Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 =
AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 11 Oct 2011, =
at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben and Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to respond your concern =
in this one email:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I feel what we are now =
discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN system.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">What means service. It should =
include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all =
the core feature for a service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If we only concern "delivering =
one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" =
"geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For "without explicit knowledge =
of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is =
accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case above.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I don't think =
your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being =
interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the =
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and =
the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what =
representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Now what you're =
talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to =
actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">My position is =
that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core =
CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation =
of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) =
because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not =
start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority =
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable =
specifications into the market in a timely fashion =
IMO.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself =
but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected =
also.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not =
for Use case.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to clarify to U that it =
is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different services.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I =
remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather =
simple .<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and comments.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: RE: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that Content Adaptation =
is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) =
HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or =
whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But these sorts of examples seem =
to be static policy things (to =
do<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather than<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy =
stuff is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">rather out of =
scope(?)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Best =
wishes<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">phil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Philip =
Eardley<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">Research and Technology =
Strategy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This email contains BT =
information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only =
for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">British Telecommunications =
plc<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">England no: =
1800000<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">To: ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Colleagues,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be =
removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a =
content item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically =
delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of =
what that content actually is.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Let's not forget that in =
building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and =
is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
"portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the =
CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If one =
movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Here =
the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content =
adaptation.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some =
email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I have =
shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising =
your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If you =
have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: =
Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 =
AM<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
2.3 Nomadic Users<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This =
description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">yet =
the third paragraph states the case where a different device =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">used =
in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">needs =
to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">access =
to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">region. =
&nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User-A; =
however, not other users in the region of the dCDN =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowed =
to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">talking =
about the restrictions on the delivery of specific =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">or the =
restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">content.=
 &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">HD =
while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">such =
content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowing=
 the distribution of SD =
content.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">o =
first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">DASH) =
o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">offer =
high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make =
sense<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">if the =
policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">rights/authorizations =
apply.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
10 Security =
Considerations<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Aside =
from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">think =
we can describe this in four =
contexts:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">a. The =
relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">arrangement for =
distribution)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">b. The =
relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">download=
 predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User =
and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">content)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">user =
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might use<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">URL =
appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">appended=
 hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">delivery=
 is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective =
CDN's.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing =
list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
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Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on =
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
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On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Ben,
>> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
>> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by =
the user.
>> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask =
the CDN to deliver to user.
>> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
>> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
>>=20
>> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have =
ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
>> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
>>=20
>> Besides, I like raise a case:
>> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
>> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are =
located in France.
>> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
>> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
>> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream =
to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
>> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
>> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; =
while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
>>=20
>> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
>> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
>>=20
>> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
>>=20
>> Br,
>> Zhipeng
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>=20
>> Zhipeng,
>>=20
>> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>=20
>>> Ben and Philip,
>>> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>>>=20
>>> Ben,
>>> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
>>> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely =
correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN =
system.
>>> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
>>> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
>>> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure =
whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the =
core of CDN.
>>>=20
>>> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", =
I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
>>> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
>>> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
>>> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
>>=20
>> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
>>=20
>>> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way =
" uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
>>=20
>> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
>>=20
>> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>>> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
>>> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
>>> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
>>> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>>>=20
>>> Philip,
>>> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
>>> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since =
it may save investment if the system may support different services.
>>> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
>>> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
>>>=20
>>> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that =
to implement this is rather simple .
>>> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be =
referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
>>> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Zhipeng
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
>>> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>>>=20
>>> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.
>>>=20
>>> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able =
to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN =
& to signal about this.
>>>=20
>>> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?
>>>=20
>>> Scott,
>>> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
>>> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
>>> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
>>> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
>>> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
>>> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
>>> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
>>> rather out of scope(?)
>>>=20
>>> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
>>>=20
>>> Best wishes
>>> phil
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Philip Eardley
>>> Research and Technology Strategy
>>>=20
>>> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
>>> British Telecommunications plc
>>> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
>>> England no: 1800000
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
>>> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
>>> To: ZhouZhipeng
>>> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>=20
>>> Colleagues,
>>>=20
>>> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. =
Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and =
transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
>>>=20
>>> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
>>>=20
>>> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
>>>=20
>>> Ben
>>>=20
>>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>>>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
>>>>=20
>>>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to =
specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>>>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and =
taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>>>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
>>>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
>>>>=20
>>>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Zhipeng
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>>>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>>> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>>>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>>>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>>>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
>>>> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
>>>> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different
>>>> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
>>>> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
>>>> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're
>>>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
>>>> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
>>>> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
>>>> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
>>>> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if
>>>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery
>>>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>>>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>>>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>>>=20
>>>> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>>>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>>>> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>>>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
>>>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>>>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>>>=20
>>>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>>>=20
>>>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>>>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>>>=20
>>>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
>>>> arrangement for distribution)
>>>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>>>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>>>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>>>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>>>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>>>> content)
>>>>=20
>>>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>>>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>>>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>>>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
>>>> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
>>>> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
>>>> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
>>>> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
>>>> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
>>>> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method =
is determined by the respective CDN's.
>>>>=20
>>>> Scott
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> CDNi mailing list
>>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi =
Alan,<div><br></div><div>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now =
is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus =
on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from =
content adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick =
with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this =
could be a discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this =
be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first =
specs as fast as possible. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: =
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normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: =
normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">Kind regards,<br><br>Mark de Jong<br>International Business =
Developer<br>Jet-Stream BV<br><br>E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a><br>Office: =
+31 (0)50 5261820<br>Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263<br>Fax: +31 (0)50 =
5264214</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"2"><br></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
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medium; "><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>News:</b>&nbsp;Pre-request=
 your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check <a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a> to =
download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
"><br></span></font></div></span></span></font></div></span></span></font>=
</div></span></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Blog:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></spa=
n></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>VideoExchange:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Streamzilla:<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></=
font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Corporate:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></=
span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></di=
v></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based on your comments =
below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of =
the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are pointing out =
below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel =
that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what =
collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that =
content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very =
important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Hello Ben,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only =
desires to get his selected content.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">The CP =
may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to =
deliver to user.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CP may =
give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the =
format as the user select.<br></blockquote><br>Lots of things may be =
possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top =
of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based =
on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is =
necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End =
User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">As for "the =
core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an =
email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen service.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<br></blockquote><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">I =
guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in =
process.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Besides, I like =
raise a case:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Given currently =
BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">One candidate is your =
company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">So both your company =
and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">If your =
company's solution is to send 10 streams of different =
format<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">of one content to =
CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y =
may conduct some adaptation.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, =
absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 streams.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Which solution =
is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from =
BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN =
provider with the lower price.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it =
may say it is not a core functionality.<br></blockquote><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">So, if we =
all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers =
should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as =
required by the market.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Back to the =
case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the =
transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection =
may not be operated.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Br,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: Ben =
Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 =
AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 11 Oct 2011, =
at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben and Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to respond your concern =
in this one email:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I feel what we are now =
discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN system.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">What means service. It should =
include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all =
the core feature for a service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If we only concern "delivering =
one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" =
"geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For "without explicit knowledge =
of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is =
accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case above.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I don't think =
your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being =
interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the =
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and =
the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what =
representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Now what you're =
talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to =
actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">My position is =
that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core =
CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation =
of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) =
because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not =
start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority =
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable =
specifications into the market in a timely fashion =
IMO.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself =
but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected =
also.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Philip,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not =
for Use case.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I like to clarify to U that it =
is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different services.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB service.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I =
remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather =
simple .<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and comments.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: RE: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that Content Adaptation =
is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) =
HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or =
whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">But these sorts of examples seem =
to be static policy things (to =
do<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather than<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy =
stuff is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">rather out of =
scope(?)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Best =
wishes<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">phil<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Philip =
Eardley<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">Research and Technology =
Strategy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This email contains BT =
information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only =
for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite">British Telecommunications =
plc<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">England no: =
1800000<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">To: ZhouZhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Colleagues,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be =
removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a =
content item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically =
delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of =
what that content actually is.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Let's not forget that in =
building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and =
is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
"portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the =
CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Ben<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If one =
movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Here =
the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content =
adaptation.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">In =
last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some =
email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I have =
shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising =
your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case =
draft.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">If you =
have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Thanks.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">-----Original =
Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">From: =
Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 =
AM<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
2.3 Nomadic Users<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This =
description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">yet =
the third paragraph states the case where a different device =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">used =
in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">needs =
to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">access =
to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">region. =
&nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User-A; =
however, not other users in the region of the dCDN =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowed =
to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">talking =
about the restrictions on the delivery of specific =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">or the =
restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">content.=
 &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">HD =
while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">such =
content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">allowing=
 the distribution of SD =
content.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">o =
first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but not<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">DASH) =
o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">offer =
high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make =
sense<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">if the =
policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">rights/authorizations =
apply.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Section =
10 Security =
Considerations<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Aside =
from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">think =
we can describe this in four =
contexts:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">a. The =
relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">arrangement for =
distribution)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">b. The =
relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of =
right to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">download=
 predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">User =
and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">content)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">user =
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability =
of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">the =
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might use<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">URL =
appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">appended=
 hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">methods,=
 but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">delivery=
 is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective =
CDN's.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Scott<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing =
list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockqu=
ote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">CDNi =
mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________=
________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>______________________________________________=
_<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></htm=
l>=

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From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>
To: "Mark de Jong" <mark@jet-stream.nl>, "Alan Kavanagh" <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>
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I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is
out of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

=20

Kent

=20

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Mark de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Hi Alan,

=20

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

=20

Met vriendelijke groet,

Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

=20

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK

- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to
have it, check www.jet-stream.com

- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in
CDNs' brochure

=20

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/

- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net

- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com

- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

=20

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:





Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are
going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know
Network Service Providers particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:




Hello Ben,

	The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that
the user only desires to get his selected content.

	But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried
by the user.

	The CP may create a special format as required by the user and
ask the CDN to deliver to user.

	While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may
then transform to the format as the user select.


Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery.
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter)
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short
time frame (18-24 months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand
the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not
help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.




In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP
website.

	So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your
base for the discussion).

	=20

	As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I
have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.

	Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are
the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may
compare and take deep look.


I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and
control plus content acquisition and content delivery.




I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
care how the voice is transformed in process.

	=20

	Besides, I like raise a case:

	Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10
media formats.

	One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are
located in France.

	So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN
provider(CDN-Y).

	If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different
format

	of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1
stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.

	Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X,
absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.

	For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ;
while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take
transformation to output 10 streams.

	=20

	Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right.
Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or
BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.

	If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may
say it is not a core functionality.


What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN
may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our
charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify
solutions that do address the core functionality required to
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told
by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben




So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
types as required by the market.

	=20

	Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise
the interconnection may not be operated.

	=20

	Br,

	Zhipeng

	=20

	=20

	=20

	=20

	-----Original Message-----

	From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]

	Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM

	To: ZhouZhipeng

	Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org

	Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

	=20

	Zhipeng,

	=20

	On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

	=20

		Ben and Philip,

		I like to respond your concern in this one email:

		=20

		Ben,

		I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core"
function of CDN.

		As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement
for CDN system.

		While CDN is used to provide the content delivery
service.

		What means service. It should include "time" "location"
and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a
service.

		If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not
sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are
the core of CDN.

		=20

		For "without explicit knowledge of what that content
actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since
generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.

		By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be
transformed from GSM voice to G.711.

		For the user, he does not need to know what type of data
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to
interconnect two systems, right.

		I like to know whether you may accept that my use case
is similar to this case above.

	=20

	I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to
request.

	=20

		As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some
adaptation to support multiple media types".

	=20

	Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core
function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill,
etc. for that delivery).

	=20

	My position is that we should focus on how to enable the
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a
timely fashion IMO.

	=20

	Ben

	=20

		A good question is "security" since I have done six
years on the DRM

		and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If
the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the
systems should be granted by the content owner.

		Here I also like to clarify that not only the media
itself but the information related to service itself (such as the
geographic constraint) should be protected also.

		So, trust is not a problem for the media.

		=20

		Philip,

		Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.

		I like to clarify to U that it is important for you
operator since it may save investment if the system may support
different services.

		For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a
system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.

		But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a
system that may support different service systems.

		=20

		Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained
somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .

		At least the Use case and Requirement are informational
to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.

		Of course I like to respond your more concern and
comments.

		Thanks.

		Zhipeng

		=20

		=20

		=20

		-----Original Message-----

		From: philip.eardley@bt.com
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]

		Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM

		To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng

		Cc: cdni@ietf.org

		Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

		=20

		Ben, Zhipeng, all,

		=20

		I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the
Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.

		=20

		The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces
to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done
in the dCDN & to signal about this.

		=20

		I think that coping with this scenario is a second order
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?

		=20

		Scott,

		Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid
even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.

		- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to
distribute HD?

		- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS
encapsulation?

		But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy
things (to do

		with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP),
rather than

		metadata associated with a particular piece of content.
In the

		discussion so far, I think negotiation about static
policy stuff is

		rather out of scope(?)

		=20

		On security considerations, an interesting question is
whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP
trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP
automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get
arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only
handle cases where the trust is transitive.

		=20

		Best wishes

		phil

		=20

		=20

		Philip Eardley

		Research and Technology Strategy

		=20

		This email contains BT information, which may be
privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or
entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that
disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is
prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know
immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email
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		Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in

		England no: 1800000

		=20

		=20

		-----Original Message-----

		From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

		Of Ben Niven-Jenkins

		Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04

		To: ZhouZhipeng

		Cc: cdni@ietf.org

		Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

		=20

		Colleagues,

		=20

		IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases
draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format
and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.

		=20

		Let's not forget that in building an end to end content
service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with
executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format
etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or
applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should
be delivered.

		=20

		The decision as to which version/copy/representation to
offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented
outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes
their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the
delivery of the selected content).

		=20

		Ben

		=20

		On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

		=20

			Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I
feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly
correct.

			If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then
we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic
unit is a content copy.

			=20

			Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings
deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content
adaptation.

			In last month, I have contacted the Authors of
this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).

			I have shown BT with some information that I
know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is
currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is
needed in the CDN interconnection.

			Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this
group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my
use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.

			=20

			If you have any more question or comments, pls
share in this thread.

			Thanks.

			Zhipeng

			=20

			=20

			=20

			=20

			=20

			=20

			-----Original Message-----

			From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]

			Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM

			To: cdni@ietf.org

			Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

			=20

			Section 2.3 Nomadic Users

			This description falls under the category of
Geographic Extension

			yet the third paragraph states the case where a
different device is

			used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent
of this use case

			needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is
trying to address

			the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an
agreement allowing

			access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a
dCDN in a different

			region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the
content of CSP-A to

			User-A; however, not other users in the region
of the dCDN are

			allowed to retrieve the content unless they too
have such an agreement.

			=20

			Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need
to clarify if we're

			talking about the restrictions on the delivery
of specific content

			or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to
deliver specific

			content.  I certainly understand the case where
a CSP will restrict

			the distribution of content to a "managed path"
if such content is

			HD while allowing the content distribution via
an un-managed path if

			such content is SD (same could apply to
encryption methods, delivery

			methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may
have its own

			restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD
content while

			allowing the distribution of SD content.

			=20

			o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can
perform a subset of

			encapsulations for a reference set of media
(e.g. HLS, HSS, but not

			DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN
doesn't want to

			offer high bit-rate variants of the media o
third bullet make sense

			if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think
subscriber

			rights/authorizations apply.

			=20

			Section 10 Security Considerations

			=20

			Aside from the security considerations WITHIN
the uCDN and dCDN, I

			think we can describe this in four contexts:

			=20

			a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN
(the principle contract

			arrangement for distribution)

			b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN
(the transitive trust

			relationship that extends the contract defined
in (a) above) c. The

			relationship between the User and dCDN (the
recognition of right to

			download predicated on (b) above) d. The
relationship between the

			User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user
access to the

			content)

			=20

			The user is not interested in the a-b nor the
b-c relationship. The

			user is only interested in the transparency and
interoperability of

			the security relationship between d-b or d-c to
the point that the

			authorization granted in d-a is viable when the
delivery is

			initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example,
the uCDN might use

			URL appended tokens for authentication while
dCDN might use URL

			appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know
about the distinct

			methods, but transparency is only afforded if
the methods are

			interoperable clearly defined when the
delegation for content

			delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of
authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

			=20

			Scott

			=20

			_______________________________________________

			CDNi mailing list

			CDNi@ietf.org

			https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

		=20

		_______________________________________________

		CDNi mailing list

		CDNi@ietf.org

		https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

	=20


_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that =
is out of scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG =
already.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Mark de Jong<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is =
about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on =
the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from content =
adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the =
delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a =
discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this be clean =
and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first specs as =
fast as possible. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
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Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span =
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Kind regards,</span></span><span =
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<br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
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Developer</span><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>E-mail: <a =
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p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based on your comments =
below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of =
the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are pointing out =
below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel =
that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what =
collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that =
content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very =
important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only =
desires to get his selected =
content.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>But =
how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the =
dCDN may then transform to the format as the user =
select.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal><br>Lots of =
things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional =
services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is =
not an essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can =
deliver content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing =
or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion =
we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of =
our work to include additional requirements that do not help us address =
our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI =
charter.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In this case, it =
is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>So, =
it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your =
assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for =
the discussion).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>As =
for &quot;the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have =
ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>I think the core functionality maps pretty well to =
the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, =
log production and control plus content acquisition and content =
delivery.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I guess many =
people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The =
user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their =
requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may =
support 10 media formats.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>One =
candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>So =
both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>If =
your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different =
format<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>of =
one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to =
CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Comparing these two solutions, for your company and =
CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>For =
CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in =
solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, =
right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and =
CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower =
price.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>If a =
CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not =
a core functionality.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>What you are describing is a possible optimization =
that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality =
required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can =
think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate =
their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of =
scope of our charter.<br><br>So to repeat my position for a final time: =
Content adaptation is not a core function required to enable content =
delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we =
already have to specify solutions that do address the core functionality =
required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add =
more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving =
our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are =
being told by operators they needs solutions =
within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>So, if =
we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers =
should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as =
required by the market.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Back =
to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, =
the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the =
interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Br,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 =
AM<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: =
<a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ben =
and Philip,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
like to respond your concern in this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ben,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
feel what we are now discussing is what is the &quot;core&quot; function =
of CDN.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>As =
you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that =
the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>While CDN is used to provide the content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>What =
means service. It should include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; =
and &quot;media type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature =
for a service.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>If =
we only concern &quot;delivering one data block&quot;, I am not sure =
whether the issues such as &quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic =
constraint&quot; are the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>For =
&quot;without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is =
&quot;, I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a =
CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>By =
this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to =
a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice =
to G.711.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>For =
the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this =
case above.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks =
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery =
the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider =
and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what =
representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>As =
for you said selecting media by the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the =
way &quot; uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not =
good than &quot;uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes =
some adaptation to support multiple media =
types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Now =
what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>My =
position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of =
the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my =
interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in =
its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. =
Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what =
the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting =
usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion =
IMO.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>A =
good question is &quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the =
DRM<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>and =
like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed =
to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here =
I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>So, =
trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Philip,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue =
for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may =
save investment if the system may support different =
services.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>For =
us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile =
service and another system for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>But =
the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support =
different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained =
somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>At =
least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in =
future work. So I do really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Of =
course I like to respond your more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 =
PM<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: =
<a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ben, =
Zhipeng, all,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc =
than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; =
to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie =
we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to &quot;initial&quot; scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie =
covering &quot;future&quot; scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Scott,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid =
even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>- a =
dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>- a =
CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>But =
these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>with =
the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>metadata associated with a particular piece of =
content. In the<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>discussion so far, I think negotiation about static =
policy stuff is<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is =
transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and =
uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>phil<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. =
It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're =
not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing =
or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email =
in error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. =
Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered in<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Of =
Ben Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>IMO =
Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a &quot;core&quot; =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Let's not forget that in building an end to end =
content service the CDN is only one component and is the component =
tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation =
(version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component =
tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN =
(e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 8 =
Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>If =
one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with =
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>Here =
the first bullet &quot;a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices,&quot; has listed the case of content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>In =
last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some =
email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I =
have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN =
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group =
raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case =
may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>If =
you have any more question or comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>To: =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
</blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>This =
description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>yet =
the third paragraph states the case where a different device =
is<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>used =
in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is =
trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>the =
scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN =
in a =
different<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the =
content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>User-A; however, not other users in the region of the =
dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have =
such an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to =
clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>talking about the restrictions on the delivery of =
specific =
content<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>or =
the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a =
CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>the =
distribution of content to a &quot;managed path&quot; if such content =
is<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>HD =
while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>such =
content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may =
have its =
own<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD =
content =
while<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>o =
first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN =
doesn't want =
to<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third =
bullet make =
sense<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>if =
the policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN =
and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>a. =
The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>b. =
The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>relationship between the User and dCDN (the =
recognition of right =
to<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship =
between =
the<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>User =
and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>content)<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>user =
is only interested in the transparency and interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>the =
security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>authorization granted in d-a is viable when the =
delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, =
the uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>URL =
appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know =
about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>methods, but transparency is only afforded if the =
methods =
are<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of =
authentication method is determined by the respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Scott<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o=
:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>CDNi =
mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o=
:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal>CDNi =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>______________________________________=
_________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>____________________________________________=
___<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Wed Oct 26 14:04:11 2011
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From: Alan Kavanagh <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>
To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" <kleung@cisco.com>, Mark de Jong <mark@jet-stream.nl>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:03:45 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed t=
oday and ones planed are captured in the use cases document?

Alan

________________________________
From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: October-26-11 5:02 PM
To: Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is ou=
t of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

Kent

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mar=
k de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on ad=
aptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already=
 not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so =
I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first spe=
cs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us kee=
p the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com<mailto:mark@jet-stream.com>
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On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:


Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization betwee=
n CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers=
 particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:


Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user onl=
y desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user=
.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transfo=
rm to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our o=
bjective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on wh=
at is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an En=
d User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 mon=
ths).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.


In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP we=
bsite.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your ass=
ert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the disc=
ussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever rais=
ed an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media=
 transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core fu=
nctionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take de=
ep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.


I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related servic=
e. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their re=
quirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnec=
tion, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the =
voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media format=
s.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in F=
rance.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-=
Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the c=
ost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in s=
olution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation =
to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the p=
rice from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select on=
e CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is no=
t a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workin=
gs of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not thi=
nk we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions withi=
n the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben


So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN provid=
ers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as=
 required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,=
 the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection=
 may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mail=
to:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that=
 the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", e=
tc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the i=
ssues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am no=
t sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it s=
upport different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to=
 a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to=
 G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferr=
ed, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this c=
ase above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks be=
ing interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the ne=
gotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the =
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. =
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representat=
ions the User/Client decides to request.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN=
 delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers o=
ne media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple =
media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function requi=
red to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delive=
ry).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of=
 the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpr=
etation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter)=
 because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start=
 trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs=
 support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications int=
o the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed=
 to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted =
by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the informat=
ion related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be=
 protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but=
 I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may s=
ave investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile se=
rvice and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may suppor=
t different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to impl=
ement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in f=
uture work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.ea=
rdley@bt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc t=
han for the Use cases draft.

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signa=
l about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we=
 should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't kno=
w, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios=
 as well?

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adapta=
tion (HD/SD) is out of scope.
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is tra=
nsitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN tr=
usts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However,=
 i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say =
that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

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England no: 1800000


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on =
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with di=
fferent identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific device=
s," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some=
 email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN se=
rvice and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or =
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the =
use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
allowing the distribution of SD content.

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
think we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is dete=
rmined by the respective CDN's.

Scott

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space"=20
vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>So are we defining a limited set of use cases or s=
hould we=20
ensure that use cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases=
 both=20
deployed today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document?=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Alan</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Kent Leung (kleung)=20
[mailto:kleung@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> October-26-11 5:02 PM<BR><B>To:<=
/B>=20
Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh<BR><B>Cc:</B> cdni@ietf.org;=20
ZhouZhipeng<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">I=20
also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is out =
of=20
scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG already.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Kent<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df=
 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium non=
e; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=20
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ma=
rk de=20
Jong<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alan=
=20
Kavanagh<BR><B>Cc:</B> cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [C=
DNi]=20
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></D=
IV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is abou=
t=20
delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the deli=
very=20
aspect already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation adde=
d to=20
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the =
first=20
specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please le=
t us=20
keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyo=
ne to=20
get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
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style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
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vriendelijke groet,</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
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style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
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class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
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class=3Dapple-style-span>Jet-Stream BV</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN=
=20
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<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'=
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style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh=20
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<BR><BR>Im assuming then based on your comments bel=
ow are=20
you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I=20
Metadata?<BR><BR>I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do a=
gree=20
that there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptatio=
n is=20
to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in t=
he=20
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization be=
tween=20
CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers=20
particularly require.<BR><BR>Alan<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From=
: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<BR>Sent:=20
October-12-11 1:13 PM<BR>To: ZhouZhipeng<BR>Cc: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D =
Action:=20
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR><BR>Zhipeng,<BR><BR>On 12 Oct 2011, at=
=20
10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>The UE may select the content format on the CP web. =
After=20
  that the user only desires to get his selected=20
content.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>But how the content is transferred to the client is =
not=20
  worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>The CP may create a special format as required by th=
e user=20
  and ask the CDN to deliver to user.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and th=
e dCDN=20
  may then transform to the format as the user select.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR>Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN provi=
ders=20
offer many additional services on top of the "core" service of content deli=
very.=20
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is =
to=20
focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a C=
SP to=20
an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-2=
4=20
months).<BR><BR>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential=20
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs =
to=20
End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports=20
content adaptation).<BR><BR>In my opinion we have enough work to do already=
=20
without trying to expand the scope of our work to include additional=20
requirements that do not help us address our core objectives as laid out in=
 the=20
CDNI charter.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>In this case, it is nothing related to how the user se=
lect=20
formats on CP website.<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>So, it is the CP and user to decide the content form=
at not=20
  the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your=
 base=20
  for the discussion).<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs t=
oday",=20
  I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claime=
d=20
  supporting media transformation and multi-screen=20
service.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that y=
ou feel=20
  are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may co=
mpare=20
  and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR>I think the core functionality maps pretty well to=
 the=20
CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log produ=
ction=20
and control plus content acquisition and content=20
delivery.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of c=
ontent=20
related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may sa=
tisfy=20
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN=20
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not ca=
re=20
how the voice is transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Besides, I like raise a case:<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may =
support=20
  10 media formats.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The=
 users=20
  are located in France.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>So both your company and CDN-X should connect a Fran=
ce CDN=20
  provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of=
=20
  different format<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is t=
o send=20
  1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some=20
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Comparing these two solutions, for your company and =
CDN-X,=20
  absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward =
10=20
  streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need t=
o=20
  take transformation to output 10 streams.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1=
,=20
  right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X=
 or=20
  BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower=20
price.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, =
how it=20
  may say it is not a core functionality.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><BR>What you are describing is a possible optimization=
 that a=20
particular CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to e=
nable=20
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizat=
ions=20
that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal=
=20
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<BR><BR>So to=
=20
repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core funct=
ion=20
required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefo=
re=20
given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the=
 core=20
functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be try=
ing=20
to add more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achiev=
ing=20
our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are bein=
g=20
told by operators they needs solutions=20
within.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>So, if we all realize that currently the media type is=
 rich,=20
the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the =
media=20
types as required by the market.<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerni=
ng the=20
  interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise t=
he=20
  interconnection may not be operated.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Br,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins=20
  [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19=20
AM<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
  draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng=20
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben and Philip,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I like to respond your concern in this one=20
    email:<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "=
core"=20
    function of CDN.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That i=
s=20
    absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement=
 for=20
    CDN system.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>While CDN is used to provide the content delivery=
=20
    service.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>What means service. It should include "time" "loca=
tion"=20
    and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a=20
    service.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>If we only concern "delivering one data block", I =
am not=20
    sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are t=
he=20
    core of CDN.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>For "without explicit knowledge of what that conte=
nt=20
    actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since gene=
rally=20
    a CDN may claim it support different=20
medias.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a=
 call=20
    from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transf=
ormed=20
    from GSM voice to G.711.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>For the user, he does not need to know what type o=
f data=20
    has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconne=
ct=20
    two systems, right.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I like to know whether you may accept that my use =
case is=20
    similar to this case above.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>I don't think your use case is similar to the analog=
y of=20
  mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of con=
tent=20
  delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content=
=20
  Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that ha=
s=20
  been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what=20
  representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client =
or in=20
  what representations the User/Client decides to=20
request.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>As for you said selecting media by the "portal", y=
ou may=20
    see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good=
 than=20
    "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation =
to=20
    support multiple media types".<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, no=
t a=20
  core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill,=
 etc.=20
  for that delivery).<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>My position is that we should focus on how to enable=
 the=20
  interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (whic=
h is=20
  also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expresse=
d in=20
  its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. L=
et's=20
  not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the major=
ity=20
  of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifica=
tions=20
  into the market in a timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>A good question is "security" since I have done si=
x years=20
    on the DRM<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>and like to promote the DRM all around the world:)=
 If the=20
    content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the syste=
ms=20
    should be granted by the content owner.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Here I also like to clarify that not only the medi=
a=20
    itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geogr=
aphic=20
    constraint) should be protected also.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>So, trust is not a problem for the=20
  media.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Philip,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an iss=
ue for=20
    "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use=20
  case.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I like to clarify to U that it is important for yo=
u=20
    operator since it may save investment if the system may support differe=
nt=20
    services.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a=
 system=20
    for the mobile service and another system for the FBB=20
  service.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>But the reality is all operators ask us to provide=
 a=20
    system that may support different service=20
systems.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explain=
ed=20
    somewhere that to implement this is rather simple=20
.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>At least the Use case and Requirement are informat=
ional=20
    to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept=20
    it.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Of course I like to respond your more concern and=
=20
    comments.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original=20
Message-----<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>From: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>=20
    [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22=20
  PM<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>To: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</A>;=20
    ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
    draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben, Zhipeng, all,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue f=
or the=20
    Requirements doc than for the Use cases=20
draft.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>The key question is whether we want the CDNI inter=
faces=20
    to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done=
 in=20
    the dCDN &amp; to signal about this.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>I think that coping with this scenario is a second=
 order=20
    requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-t=
rack=20
    work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is=20
    restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie=
=20
    covering "future" scenarios as well?<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Scott,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Reading some of your examples, they seem to be val=
id even=20
    if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of=20
scope.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to dis=
tribute=20
    HD?<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use H=
LS=20
    encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>But these sorts of examples seem to be static poli=
cy=20
    things (to do<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDN=
s &amp;=20
    CSP), rather than<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>metadata associated with a particular piece of con=
tent.=20
    In the<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>discussion so far, I think negotiation about stati=
c=20
    policy stuff is<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>rather out of=20
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>On security considerations, an interesting questio=
n is=20
    whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP=
=20
    trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatical=
ly=20
    trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - =
so=20
    one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trus=
t is=20
    transitive.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Best wishes<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>phil<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Philip Eardley<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Research and Technology=20
Strategy<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>This email contains BT information, which may be=20
    privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or en=
tity=20
    named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing=
,=20
    copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you'v=
e=20
    received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the ema=
il=20
    address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record y=
our=20
    emails.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>British Telecommunications=20
plc<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7=
AJ=20
    Registered in<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>England no: 1800000<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original=20
Message-----<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>From: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
    [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
Behalf<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: 10 October 2011=20
12:04<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Cc: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
    draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use C=
ases=20
    draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format =
and=20
    transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core"=20
    function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requeste=
d=20
    without explicit knowledge of what that content actually=20
  is.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Let's not forget that in building an end to end co=
ntent=20
    service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with=
=20
    executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/forma=
t=20
    etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (o=
r=20
    applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should=
 be=20
    delivered.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>The decision as to which version/copy/representati=
on to=20
    offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented=20
    outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes the=
ir=20
    content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of=
 the=20
    selected content).<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>Ben<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng=20
  wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I f=
eel=20
      Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly=20
      correct.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then =
we have=20
      two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit i=
s a=20
      content copy.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings=20
      deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content=20
      adaptation.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>In last month, I have contacted the Authors of t=
his=20
      document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip=20
      (BT).<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>I have shown BT with some information that I kno=
w in=20
      this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a =
basic=20
      requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the =
CDN=20
      interconnection.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this grou=
p=20
      raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use c=
ase=20
      may be incorporated in the use case=20
  draft.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>If you have any more question or comments, pls s=
hare in=20
      this thread.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>-----Original=20
  Message-----<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>From: Scott Wainner=20
      [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02=20
    AM<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>To: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCK=
QUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
      draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Section 2.3 Nomadic=20
  Users<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>This description falls under the category of Geo=
graphic=20
      Extension<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>yet the third paragraph states the case where a=
=20
      different device is<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>used in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The in=
tent of=20
      this use case<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use cas=
e is=20
      trying to address<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agre=
ement=20
      allowing<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a=
 dCDN=20
      in a different<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute =
the=20
      content of CSP-A to<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>User-A; however, not other users in the region o=
f the=20
      dCDN are<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>allowed to retrieve the content unless they too =
have=20
      such an agreement.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need=
 to=20
      clarify if we're<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>talking about the restrictions on the delivery o=
f=20
      specific content<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to d=
eliver=20
      specific<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case w=
here a=20
      CSP will restrict<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>the distribution of content to a "managed path" =
if such=20
      content is<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>HD while allowing the content distribution via a=
n=20
      un-managed path if<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>such content is SD (same could apply to encrypti=
on=20
      methods, delivery<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN =
may=20
      have its own<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD =
content=20
      while<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>allowing the distribution of SD=20
    content.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perfo=
rm a=20
      subset of<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g=
. HLS,=20
      HSS, but not<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN=
=20
      doesn't want to<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>offer high bit-rate variants of the media o thir=
d=20
      bullet make sense<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think=20
      subscriber<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>rights/authorizations=20
  apply.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Section 10 Security=20
    Considerations<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Aside from the security considerations WITHIN th=
e uCDN=20
      and dCDN, I<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>think we can describe this in four=20
      contexts:<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN=
 (the=20
      principle contract<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>arrangement for=20
  distribution)<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (t=
he=20
      transitive trust<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>relationship that extends the contract defined i=
n (a)=20
      above) c. The<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>relationship between the User and dCDN (the reco=
gnition=20
      of right to<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>download predicated on (b) above) d. The relatio=
nship=20
      between the<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user =
access=20
      to the<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P=20
class=3DMsoNormal>content)<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-=
c=20
      relationship. The<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>user is only interested in the transparency and=
=20
      interoperability of<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>the security relationship between d-b or d-c to =
the=20
      point that the<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>authorization granted in d-a is viable when the=
=20
      delivery is<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an exa=
mple,=20
      the uCDN might use<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>URL appended tokens for authentication while dCD=
N might=20
      use URL<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to =
know=20
      about the distinct<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>methods, but transparency is only afforded if th=
e=20
      methods are<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>interoperable clearly defined when the delegatio=
n for=20
      content<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice =
of=20
      authentication method is determined by the respective=20
    CDN's.<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>Scott<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P=20
      class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p=
></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal>CDNi mailing=20
list<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><A=20
      href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCK=
QUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><A=20
      href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P=20
    class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p><=
/o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal>CDNi mailing list<o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><A=20
    href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/cdni</A><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><BR>_________________________________________=
______<BR>CDNi=20
mailing list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni</A><BR>_______________________________________________<=
BR>CDNi=20
mailing list<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR>https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/cdni<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 02:34:44 +0000
From: "Will Li(jincheng)" <lijincheng@huawei.com>
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Hello Mark,
Nice to meet you on line.
In your company's website, I just find some information that addresses " Vodafone subscribers complained about video performance."
See:
http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=transcoding

Dear all in this group,
In last few days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this issue.
First, although the market requirement for it is very important, I feel I'd better show up more information on the procedure involved. I have explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather simple while the wording is not enough.
I am busy making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI meeting and IETF CDNI.
By these work  I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.
Second, for that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated between two CDNs.
If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates to dCDN.
Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will handle the transcoding.

Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.
Besides, I like say that the technology on this topic has been for many years and has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action to be involved in CDN interconnection.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

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On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:


Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:


Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.


In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP website.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the discussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.


I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media formats.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben


So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

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-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
allowing the distribution of SD content.

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
think we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

Scott

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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: bre=
ak-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello Mark=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Nice to me=
et you on line.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In your co=
mpany&#8217;s website, I just find some information that addresses &#8220;
</span><span lang=3D"NL" style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#4C565C;layout-grid-mode:line">Vodafone s=
ubscribers complained about video performance.&#8221;</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">See:<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D=
"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding">http://www.jet-stre=
am.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dear all i=
n this group,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In last fe=
w days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some peop=
le and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on
 this issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, alt=
hough the market requirement for it is very important, I feel I&#8217;d bet=
ter show up more information on the procedure involved. I have explained
 many times that to support content adaptation is rather simple while the w=
ording is not enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I am busy =
making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI meeting and IE=
TF CDNI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">By these w=
ork&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Second, fo=
r that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does not choose to =
support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated between
 two CDNs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If dCDN do=
es not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the transco=
ding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates
 to dCDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Third, alt=
hough CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has been exis=
ted for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream
 operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will handl=
e the transcoding.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps, t=
he content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel currently=
 most operator will be a all service operator. And for the
 CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Besides, I=
 like say that the technology on this topic has been for many years and has=
 been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507
 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action to be inv=
olved in CDN interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall discu=
ssion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to =
get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requiremen=
t from content adaptation added to that,
 so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first=
 specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please l=
et us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of =
everyone to get the first specs as fast
 as possible. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black"><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business Developer</span><br=
>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream BV</span><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.=
com">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: &#43;31 (0)50 5261820</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: &#43;31 (0)6 81108263</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: &#43;31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&qu=
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</div>
<div>
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family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><spa=
n class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;=
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rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style=
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bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
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ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&=
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bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
 us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
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pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">News:</span></b></=
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:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://w=
ww.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a> to download our 'Six Trend=
s
 in CDNs' brochure</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
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pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Blog:</span></b></=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span la=
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t-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
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pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
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pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
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tyle=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.=
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olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Corporate:</span><=
/b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet=
-stream.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Al=
an Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br>
<br>
Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br>
<br>
I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content
 adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one =
that I know Network Service Providers particularly require.<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [m=
ailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>
To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Zhipeng,<br>
<br>
On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may select the content f=
ormat on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected c=
ontent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transfer=
red to the client is not worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special for=
mat as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP may give a HD format c=
ontent to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user se=
lect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. Howe=
ver, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to f=
ocus on what is necessary to interconnect
 CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and dep=
loyable within a short time frame (18-24 months).<br>
<br>
Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.<br>
<br>
In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing rel=
ated to how the user select formats on CP website.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, it is the CP and user to de=
cide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems yo=
u take that assert as your base for the discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for &quot;the core CDN funct=
ionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have ever raised an email before th=
at your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and m=
ulti-screen service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list=
 some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main =
stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the ex=
perience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care wh=
ether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the in=
ternal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection,
 the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice=
 is transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a case:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given currently BBC recruits CD=
N providers that may support 10 media formats.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is t=
o send 10 streams of different format<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, =
for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it sh=
ould receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only recei=
ve 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more competit=
ive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both y=
our company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower p=
rice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get t=
he contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate
 their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of sc=
ope of our charter.<br>
<br>
So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality
 required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add mo=
re work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our g=
oal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being tol=
d by operators they needs solutions
 within.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that curr=
ently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the exist=
ing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, =
it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at o=
nce be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto=
:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 20=
11 12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:philip.ea=
rdley@bt.com">
philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</=
a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZ=
hipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and Philip,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern =
in this one email:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussi=
ng is what is the &quot;core&quot; function of CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deli=
ver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the=
 core requirement for CDN system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide th=
e content delivery service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should i=
nclude &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and &quot;media type&quot;, et=
c. These features are all the core feature for a service.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern &quot;delive=
ring one data block&quot;, I am not sure whether the issues such as &quot;l=
ogging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of CDN.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For &quot;without explicit know=
ledge of what that content actually is &quot;, I am not sure whether the wo=
rding is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medi=
as.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice st=
ream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need =
to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done s=
ome work to interconnect two systems, right.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case above.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN netw=
orks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the U=
ser/Client and the Content Provider
 and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been neg=
otiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representat=
ions the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what re=
presentations the User/Client decides
 to request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media=
 by the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the way &quot; uCDN delivers multip=
le media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN delivers one med=
ia stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple
 media types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about i=
s an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the con=
tent (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should f=
ocus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality off=
ered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDN=
I working group as expressed in its
 charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's =
not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majorit=
y of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifica=
tions into the market in a timely
 fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is &quot;securi=
ty&quot; since I have done six years on the DRM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all=
 around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally you=
 may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify tha=
t not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (=
such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for =
the media.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content=
 Adaption is an issue for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why it=
 is not for Use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it =
is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system ma=
y support different services.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy ope=
rator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for th=
e FBB service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operator=
s ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I reme=
mber I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and Requi=
rement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel=
 you may accept it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond you=
r more concern and comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: <a href=3D"mailto:philip.=
eardley@bt.com">
philip.eardley@bt.com</a> [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: <a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven=
-jenkins.co.uk">
ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf=
.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, all,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation=
 is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/=
SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about this.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this s=
cenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in t=
he initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether t=
he Use cases doc is restricted to &quot;initial&quot;
 scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering &quot;future&quot=
; scenarios as well?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason =
be unwilling to distribute HD?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure=
 the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples see=
m to be static policy things (to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; pre=
ferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a part=
icular piece of content. In the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think nego=
tiation about static policy stuff is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of scope(?)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be=
 - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the=
 CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
 However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility i=
s to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Philip Eardley<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology Strateg=
y<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT informat=
ion, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the indiv=
idual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note =
that disclosing, copying, distributing
 or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in =
error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you=
. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications plc<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate S=
treet London EC1A 7AJ Registered in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">England no: 1800000<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bo=
unces@ietf.org">
cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf=
.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be rem=
oved from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content=
 item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation=
) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN
 which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit kn=
owledge of what that content actually is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in buildi=
ng an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the c=
omponent tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (v=
ersion/copy/format etc.) of the selected
 content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on whi=
ch version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which versio=
n/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/=
user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; wher=
e the user first makes their content selection
 prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content=
).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZh=
ipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on s=
ection 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is no=
t exactly correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of=
 HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scop=
e, the basic unit is a content copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet &quot;a s=
ubset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed the ca=
se of content adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted=
 the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and=
 Philip (BT).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some infor=
mation that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility=
 is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation i=
s needed in the CDN interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite=
 you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I =
hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question o=
r comments, pls share in this thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swa=
inner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Friday, September 30, 201=
1 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: <a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf=
.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under th=
e category of Geographic Extension<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states =
the case where a different device is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage a=
rea. &nbsp;The intent of this use case<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Pe=
rhaps the use case is trying to address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic Us=
er-A with an agreement allowing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A vi=
a uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allow=
ed to distribute the content of CSP-A to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other user=
s in the region of the dCDN are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content=
 unless they too have such an agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if we're<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions =
on the delivery of specific content<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the abil=
ity of a CDN to deliver specific<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly unde=
rstand the case where a CSP will restrict<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to =
a &quot;managed path&quot; if such content is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content d=
istribution via an un-managed path if<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, delivery<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the co=
ntrary, the dCDN may have its own<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the di=
stribution of HD content while<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD=
 content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if t=
he dCDN can perform a subset of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference =
set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sen=
se where the dCDN doesn't want to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of=
 the media o third bullet make sense<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but=
 I don't think subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations apply.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security Considerati=
ons<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security conside=
rations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in f=
our contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the=
 CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for distribution)<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the=
 uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the c=
ontract defined in (a) above) c. The<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User a=
nd dCDN (the recognition of right to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) abov=
e) d. The relationship between the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract auth=
orizing the user access to the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in t=
he a-b nor the b-c relationship. The<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship betwe=
en d-b or d-c to the point that the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is=
 viable when the delivery is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c=
. &nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might use<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for authent=
ication while dCDN might use URL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user=
 doesn't want to know about the distinct<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is on=
ly afforded if the methods are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined w=
hen the delegation for content<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Cle=
arly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respective C=
DN's.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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From mark@jet-stream.nl  Thu Oct 27 00:57:37 2011
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Hi Zhipeng,

As said: I agree this can be a discussion later and be added to the =
requirements in a future release. However: in respect to the speed of =
the process and as the delivery part is the biggest majority of the =
business for interconnection (please note: interconnection is a business =
driver, not technology driver) the focus should be delivery.=20

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Hello Mark,
> Nice to meet you on line.
> In your company=92s website, I just find some information that =
addresses =93 Vodafone subscribers complained about video performance.=94
> See:
> http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding
> =20
> Dear all in this group,
> In last few days, except the public email discussions I have contacted =
with some people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on =
this issue.
> First, although the market requirement for it is very important, I =
feel I=92d better show up more information on the procedure involved. I =
have explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather =
simple while the wording is not enough.
> I am busy making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI =
meeting and IETF CDNI.
> By these work  I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.
> Second, for that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does =
not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated =
between two CDNs.
> If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to =
complete the transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and =
rates to dCDN.
> Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content =
operating has been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to =
the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream =
operator will handle the transcoding.
> =20
> Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I =
feel currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the =
CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.
> Besides, I like say that the technology on this topic has been for =
many years and has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as =
rfc3507 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action =
to be involved in CDN interconnection.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM
> To: Alan Kavanagh
> Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not =
on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.
> =20
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Mark de Jong
> International Business Developer
> Jet-Stream BV
>=20
> E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
> Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
> Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
> Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214
> =20
> - Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
> - News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
> - News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure
> =20
> - Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
> - VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
> - Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
> - Corporate: www.jet-stream.com
> =20
> On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the =
CDN to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>=20
> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
> =20
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever =
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>=20
> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
> =20
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located =
in France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to =
CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while =
in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
> =20
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
> =20
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
> =20
> Br,
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Zhipeng,
> =20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> =20
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct =
that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.
> =20
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I =
am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
> =20
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
> =20
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " =
uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
> =20
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
> =20
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> =20
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
> =20
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to =
implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred =
in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> =20
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc than for the Use cases draft.
> =20
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & =
to signal about this.
> =20
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, =
ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
"future" scenarios as well?
> =20
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
> rather out of scope(?)
> =20
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
> =20
> Best wishes
> phil
> =20
> =20
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
> =20
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
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> England no: 1800000
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Colleagues,
> =20
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> =20
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
> =20
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
> =20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
> =20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
> =20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> =20
> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
> rights/authorizations apply.
> =20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
> =20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think we can describe this in four contexts:
> =20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
> content)
> =20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective CDN's.
> =20
> Scott
> =20
> _______________________________________________
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20
> =20


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<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://1547/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">Hi Zhipeng,<div><br></div><div>As said: I agree =
this can be a discussion later and be added to the requirements in a =
future release. However: in respect to the speed of the process and as =
the delivery part is the biggest majority of the business for =
interconnection (please note: interconnection is a business driver, not =
technology driver) the focus should be delivery.&nbsp;<div><span =
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"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">Met vriendelijke =
groet,</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
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Developer<br>Jet-Stream BV<br><br>E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a><br>Office: =
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class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
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medium; "><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
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class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
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class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>News:</b>&nbsp;Pre-request=
 your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check <a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a> to =
download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
"><br></span></font></div></span></span></font></div></span></span></font>=
</div></span></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Blog:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></spa=
n></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>VideoExchange:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Streamzilla:<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></=
font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Corporate:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></=
span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></di=
v></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Hello Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Nice to meet you on =
line.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In your company=92s website, I just find some =
information that addresses =93<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"NL" =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(76, =
86, 92); ">Vodafone subscribers complained about video =
performance.=94</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">See:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear all in this group,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In last few =
days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some =
people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First, although the market requirement for it is =
very important, I feel I=92d better show up more information on the =
procedure involved. I have explained many times that to support content =
adaptation is rather simple while the wording is not =
enough.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I am busy making some contributions on this and plan =
to upload to ETSI meeting and IETF CDNI.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By these =
work&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Second, for that functionality, in implementation, =
if some entity does not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may =
be negotiated between two CDNs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If dCDN =
does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the =
transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates to =
dCDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while =
the content operating has been existed for years. As I know the content =
from USA to the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the =
downstream operator will handle the =
transcoding.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps, =
the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel =
currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the CDN =
providers, it may be better to support all kinds of =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Besides, I like say that the technology on this =
topic has been for many years and has been rather mature, even some =
items in ietf such as rfc3507 icap. So from the technique point of view, =
it is a nature action to be involved in CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mark de Jong =
[mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan =
Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ben Niven-Jenkins; =
ZhouZhipeng;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Kind =
regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><br><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
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sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
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class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Corporate:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based =
on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to have a number =
of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are =
pointing out below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but =
I still feel that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement =
to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with =
you that content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a =
very important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On 12 Oct 2011, =
at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may select the =
content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get =
his selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special format as required by the =
user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP =
may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to =
the format as the user select.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>Lots of things may be possible =
to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top of the =
"core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based on my =
interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to =
interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is =
targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing =
related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs =
today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage =
has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>I think the core functionality =
maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, =
Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content =
delivery.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of =
content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN =
providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal =
process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful =
interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in =
process.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given =
currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The =
users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France =
CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of =
different format<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to =
send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and =
CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, =
right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and =
CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower =
price.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how =
it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>What you are describing is a =
possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a =
core functionality required to enable content delivery between =
interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could =
implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an =
individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So to repeat my =
position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function =
required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and =
therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that =
do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not =
think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will =
only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that =
currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in =
the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning =
the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. =
Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern in this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" =
function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide the content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should include "time" "location" =
and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not =
sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are =
the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For "without explicit knowledge of what that content =
actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since =
generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of =
mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of =
content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the =
Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the =
delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the =
decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to =
offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client =
decides to request.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a =
core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, =
bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the =
content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the =
systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media =
itself but the information related to service itself (such as the =
geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it is important for you =
operator since it may save investment if the system may support =
different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system =
for the mobile service and another system for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a =
system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained =
somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and Requirement are informational =
to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond your more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com=
]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces =
to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done =
in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even =
if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy =
things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a particular piece of content. =
In the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static =
policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an interesting question is =
whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP =
trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP =
automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get =
arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT information, which may be =
privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or =
entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that =
disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is =
prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know =
immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email =
system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases =
draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format =
and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in building an end to end content =
service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with =
executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format =
etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or =
applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should =
be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which version/copy/representation to =
offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented =
outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes =
their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the =
delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have =
two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a =
content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet "a subset of =
encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of =
content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this =
document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some information that I know in this =
case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic =
requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite =
you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since =
I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states the case where a different =
device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of =
this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is =
trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in =
a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the =
content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other users in the region of the =
dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such =
an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions on the delivery of =
specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a =
CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such =
content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content distribution via an =
un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could apply to encryption =
methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have =
its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't =
want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet =
make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the =
CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition =
of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship =
between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><=
/blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the transparency and =
interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point =
that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might =
use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know =
about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of =
authentication method is determined by the respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
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uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
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ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
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margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
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blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
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 mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
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v></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Mark,
I fully agree that it is a business driver. So I emphasized many times that the content adaptation is a urgent and important market demand.
In fact I am not advertising for some http streaming products, but the variable streaming solution is the real market requirement.
Absolutely CDN is for delivery but it should be also clarified here it is "content delivery" not only "bitrate delivery".
As you see the operator may develop subscribers only when it may provide enough functionality and quality.

Thanks.
Zhipeng

From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:57 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: Alan Kavanagh; Ben Niven-Jenkins; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Zhipeng,

As said: I agree this can be a discussion later and be added to the requirements in a future release. However: in respect to the speed of the process and as the delivery part is the biggest majority of the business for interconnection (please note: interconnection is a business driver, not technology driver) the focus should be delivery.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com<mailto:mark@jet-stream.com>
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- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/<http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/>
- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net<http://www.vdo-x.net>
- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com<http://www.streamzillacdn.com>
- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com<http://www.jet-stream.com>

On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:


Hello Mark,
Nice to meet you on line.
In your company's website, I just find some information that addresses " Vodafone subscribers complained about video performance."
See:
http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=transcoding

Dear all in this group,
In last few days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this issue.
First, although the market requirement for it is very important, I feel I'd better show up more information on the procedure involved. I have explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather simple while the wording is not enough.
I am busy making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI meeting and IETF CDNI.
By these work  I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.
Second, for that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated between two CDNs.
If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates to dCDN.
Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will handle the transcoding.

Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.
Besides, I like say that the technology on this topic has been for many years and has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action to be involved in CDN interconnection.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com<mailto:mark@jet-stream.com>
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check www.jet-stream.com<http://www.jet-stream.com>
- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/<http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/>
- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net<http://www.vdo-x.net>
- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com<http://www.streamzillacdn.com>
- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com<http://www.jet-stream.com>

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:



Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:



Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.



In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP website.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the discussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.



I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media formats.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben



So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to request.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as well?

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

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-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
allowing the distribution of SD content.

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
think we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respective CDN's.

Scott

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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: bre=
ak-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Mark,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I fully ag=
ree that it is a business driver. So I emphasized many times that the conte=
nt adaptation is a urgent and important market demand.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In fact I =
am not advertising for some http streaming products, but the variable strea=
ming solution is the real market requirement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Absolutely=
 CDN is for delivery but it should be also clarified here it is &#8220;cont=
ent delivery&#8221; not only &#8220;bitrate delivery&#8221;.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">As you see=
 the operator may develop subscribers only when it may provide enough funct=
ionality and quality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ZhouZhipeng<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Alan Kavanagh; Ben Niven-Jenkins; cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As said: I agree this can be a =
discussion later and be added to the requirements in a future release. Howe=
ver: in respect to the speed of the process and as the delivery part is the=
 biggest majority of the business for
 interconnection (please note: interconnection is a business driver, not te=
chnology driver) the focus should be delivery.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div>
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<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black"><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business Developer</span><br=
>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream BV</span><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.=
com">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: &#43;31 (0)50 5261820</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: &#43;31 (0)6 81108263</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: &#43;31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><spa=
n class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Meet
 us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</span></span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style=
-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
 us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK</span></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style=
-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
 us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">News:</span></b></=
span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
">&nbsp;Pre-request
 your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check <a href=
=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">
www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size=
:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://w=
ww.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a> to download our 'Six Trend=
s
 in CDNs' brochure</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Blog:</span></b></=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">=
www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">VideoExchange:</sp=
an></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">ww=
w.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Streamzilla:</span=
></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.=
com">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Corporate:</span><=
/b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet=
-stream.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt=
;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, Zh=
ouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello Mark=
,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Nice to me=
et you on line.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In your co=
mpany&#8217;s website, I just find some information that addresses &#8220;<=
span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"NL" =
style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:#4C565C">Vodafone
 subscribers complained about video performance.&#8221;</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">See:</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D=
"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding">http://www.jet-stre=
am.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dear all i=
n this group,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">In last fe=
w days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some peop=
le and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on
 this issue.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">First, alt=
hough the market requirement for it is very important, I feel I&#8217;d bet=
ter show up more information on the procedure involved. I have explained
 many times that to support content adaptation is rather simple while the w=
ording is not enough.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I am busy =
making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI meeting and IE=
TF CDNI.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">By these w=
ork&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Second, fo=
r that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does not choose to =
support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated between
 two CDNs.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If dCDN do=
es not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the transco=
ding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates
 to dCDN.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Third, alt=
hough CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has been exis=
ted for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream
 operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will handl=
e the transcoding.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Perhaps, t=
he content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel currently=
 most operator will be a all service operator. And for the
 CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Besides, I=
 like say that the technology on this topic has been for many years and has=
 been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507
 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action to be inv=
olved in CDN interconnection.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Zhipeng</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Mark
 de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&=
nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, Oc=
tober 27, 2011 4:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Kavanagh<=
br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ben Niven-Jenk=
ins; ZhouZhipeng;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi=
] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall discu=
ssion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to =
get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention your requiremen=
t from content adaptation added to that,
 so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first=
 specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please l=
et us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of =
everyone to get the first specs as fast
 as possible. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black"><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business Developer</span><br=
>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream BV</span><br>
<br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:</span><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><a href=3D"mailto:m=
ark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: &#43;31 (0)50 5261820</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: &#43;31 (0)6 81108263</span><br>
<span class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: &#43;31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><spa=
n class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Meet
 us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</span></span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style=
-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
 us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK</span></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;;color:black">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style=
-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;Meet
 us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">News:</span></b></=
span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
">&nbsp;Pre-request
 your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check</span></=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fo=
nt-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:=
black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-strea=
m.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://w=
ww.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span class=
=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</s=
pan></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"f=
ont-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:black">to
 download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:13.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Blog:</span></b></=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;col=
or:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">=
www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">VideoExchange:</sp=
an></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">ww=
w.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Streamzilla:</span=
></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.=
com">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:black">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"app=
le-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Corporate:</span><=
/b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet=
-stream.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Al=
an Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br>
<br>
Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br>
<br>
I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content
 adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one =
that I know Network Service Providers particularly require.<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:c=
dni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Nive=
n-Jenkins<br>
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>
To: ZhouZhipeng<br>
Cc:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cdn=
i@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br>
<br>
Zhipeng,<br>
<br>
On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may select the content f=
ormat on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected c=
ontent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transfer=
red to the client is not worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special for=
mat as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP may give a HD format c=
ontent to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user se=
lect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. Howe=
ver, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to f=
ocus on what is necessary to interconnect
 CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and dep=
loyable within a short time frame (18-24 months).<br>
<br>
Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.<br>
<br>
In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing rel=
ated to how the user select formats on CP website.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, it is the CP and user to de=
cide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems yo=
u take that assert as your base for the discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for &quot;the core CDN funct=
ionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have ever raised an email before th=
at your company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and m=
ulti-screen service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list=
 some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main =
stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the ex=
perience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care wh=
ether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the in=
ternal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection,
 the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice=
 is transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a case:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given currently BBC recruits CD=
N providers that may support 10 media formats.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in France.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is t=
o send 10 streams of different format<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, =
for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it sh=
ould receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only recei=
ve 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 streams.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more competit=
ive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both y=
our company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower p=
rice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get t=
he contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core functionality.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate
 their service but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of sc=
ope of our charter.<br>
<br>
So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality
 required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add mo=
re work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our g=
oal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being tol=
d by operators they needs solutions
 within.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that curr=
ently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the exist=
ing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the market.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, =
it just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at o=
nce be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto=
:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 20=
11 12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eard=
ley@bt.com</a>;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=
=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZ=
hipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and Philip,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern =
in this one email:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussi=
ng is what is the &quot;core&quot; function of CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deli=
ver content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the=
 core requirement for CDN system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide th=
e content delivery service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should i=
nclude &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and &quot;media type&quot;, et=
c. These features are all the core feature for a service.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern &quot;delive=
ring one data block&quot;, I am not sure whether the issues such as &quot;l=
ogging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of CDN.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For &quot;without explicit know=
ledge of what that content actually is &quot;, I am not sure whether the wo=
rding is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different medi=
as.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice st=
ream should be transformed from GSM voice to G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need =
to know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done s=
ome work to interconnect two systems, right.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case above.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN netw=
orks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the U=
ser/Client and the Content Provider
 and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been neg=
otiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representat=
ions the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what re=
presentations the User/Client decides
 to request.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media=
 by the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the way &quot; uCDN delivers multip=
le media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN delivers one med=
ia stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple
 media types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about i=
s an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the con=
tent (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should f=
ocus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality off=
ered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDN=
I working group as expressed in its
 charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's =
not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majorit=
y of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifica=
tions into the market in a timely
 fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is &quot;securi=
ty&quot; since I have done six years on the DRM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all=
 around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally you=
 may know all the systems should be granted by the content owner.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify tha=
t not only the media itself but the information related to service itself (=
such as the geographic constraint) should be protected also.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for =
the media.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content=
 Adaption is an issue for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why it=
 is not for Use case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it =
is important for you operator since it may save investment if the system ma=
y support different services.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy ope=
rator may install a system for the mobile service and another system for th=
e FBB service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operator=
s ask us to provide a system that may support different service systems.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I reme=
mber I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple .<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and Requi=
rement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel=
 you may accept it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond you=
r more concern and comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.ea=
rdley@bt.com</a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:=
philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven=
-jenkins.co.uk</a>; ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, all,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation=
 is more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases draft.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/=
SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about this.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this s=
cenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in t=
he initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether t=
he Use cases doc is restricted to &quot;initial&quot;
 scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering &quot;future&quot=
; scenarios as well?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason =
be unwilling to distribute HD?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure=
 the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples see=
m to be static policy things (to do<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; pre=
ferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a part=
icular piece of content. In the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think nego=
tiation about static policy stuff is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of scope(?)<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be=
 - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the=
 CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
 However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility i=
s to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best wishes<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Philip Eardley<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology Strateg=
y<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT informat=
ion, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the indiv=
idual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note =
that disclosing, copying, distributing
 or using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in =
error, please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you=
. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications plc<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate S=
treet London EC1A 7AJ Registered in<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">England no: 1800000<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"apple-conve=
rted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org</a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:=
cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be rem=
oved from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content=
 item in one format and transforming it to another format or representation=
) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN
 which typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit kn=
owledge of what that content actually is.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in buildi=
ng an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the c=
omponent tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation (v=
ersion/copy/format etc.) of the selected
 content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on whi=
ch version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which versio=
n/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/=
user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the &quot;portal&quot; wher=
e the user first makes their content selection
 prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content=
).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZh=
ipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on s=
ection 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is no=
t exactly correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of=
 HD and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scop=
e, the basic unit is a content copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet &quot;a s=
ubset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed the ca=
se of content adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted=
 the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and=
 Philip (BT).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some infor=
mation that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility=
 is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation i=
s needed in the CDN interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite=
 you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I =
hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case draft.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question o=
r comments, pls share in this thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original Message-----<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swa=
inner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Friday, September 30, 201=
1 8:02 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
 draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic Users<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under th=
e category of Geographic Extension<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states =
the case where a different device is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage a=
rea. &nbsp;The intent of this use case<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Pe=
rhaps the use case is trying to address<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic Us=
er-A with an agreement allowing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A vi=
a uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allow=
ed to distribute the content of CSP-A to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other user=
s in the region of the dCDN are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content=
 unless they too have such an agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if we're<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions =
on the delivery of specific content<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the abil=
ity of a CDN to deliver specific<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly unde=
rstand the case where a CSP will restrict<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to =
a &quot;managed path&quot; if such content is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content d=
istribution via an un-managed path if<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, delivery<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the co=
ntrary, the dCDN may have its own<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the di=
stribution of HD content while<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD=
 content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if t=
he dCDN can perform a subset of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference =
set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sen=
se where the dCDN doesn't want to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of=
 the media o third bullet make sense<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but=
 I don't think subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations apply.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security Considerati=
ons<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security conside=
rations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in f=
our contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the=
 CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for distribution)<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the=
 uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the c=
ontract defined in (a) above) c. The<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User a=
nd dCDN (the recognition of right to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) abov=
e) d. The relationship between the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract auth=
orizing the user access to the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in t=
he a-b nor the b-c relationship. The<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship betwe=
en d-b or d-c to the point that the<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is=
 viable when the delivery is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c=
. &nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might use<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for authent=
ication while dCDN might use URL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user=
 doesn't want to know about the distinct<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is on=
ly afforded if the methods are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined w=
hen the delegation for content<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Cle=
arly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respective C=
DN's.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing list<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org=
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________=
________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing list<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org=
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CDNi mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CDNi mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Mark de Jong <mark@jet-stream.nl>
In-Reply-To: <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6217F6C749@SZXEML519-MBX.china.huawei.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:40:29 +0100
Message-Id: <7ACB09B9-C857-44A8-B47F-A15136FC6AD8@jet-stream.nl>
References: <20110922193639.11562.32240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4E8506FC.1020701@cisco.com> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245A694@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AA42@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1E5D2F7D-D855-4082-97EA-E609F089D4D3@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AD64@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com> <166602C2-3084-4EED-A6DA-E772C4A72136@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D5170F26BB1D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <B3C8681F-557C-4770-B8E4-6C43CF385630@jet-stream.nl> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6217F6B6FB@SZXEML519-MBX.china.huawei.com> <BFEC04D6-0F0D-4667-9955-B40C1837C4C5@jet-stream.nl> <260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6217F6C749@SZXEML519-MBX.china.huawei.com>
To: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Zhipeng,

It is a slowly growing demand but still very little in terms of =
revenue/demand. The majority of the business nowadays and in respect to =
interconnection will be about delivery on the short/mid-term. We really =
don't get much request for content adaptation on our own CDN-service or =
as a requirement for our CDN-software. So I disagree that adaptation is =
an important market demand at this moment, especially on =
interconnection. I think I have made my point that we stick with =
delivery for the reasons I already mentioned and I think the group =
agrees with that too. Again: I'm not excluding the option for the =
future. So please: let us stop this discussion and go forward on the =
actual work to be done: standards. :)

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

On 27, Oct,2011, at 9:11 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Hi Mark,
> I fully agree that it is a business driver. So I emphasized many times =
that the content adaptation is a urgent and important market demand.
> In fact I am not advertising for some http streaming products, but the =
variable streaming solution is the real market requirement.
> Absolutely CDN is for delivery but it should be also clarified here it =
is =93content delivery=94 not only =93bitrate delivery=94.
> As you see the operator may develop subscribers only when it may =
provide enough functionality and quality.
> =20
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:57 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: Alan Kavanagh; Ben Niven-Jenkins; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Hi Zhipeng,
> =20
> As said: I agree this can be a discussion later and be added to the =
requirements in a future release. However: in respect to the speed of =
the process and as the delivery part is the biggest majority of the =
business for interconnection (please note: interconnection is a business =
driver, not technology driver) the focus should be delivery.=20
> =20
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Mark de Jong
> International Business Developer
> Jet-Stream BV
>=20
> E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
> Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
> Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
> Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214
> =20
> - Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
> - News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
> - News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure
> =20
> - Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
> - VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
> - Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
> - Corporate: www.jet-stream.com
> =20
> On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hello Mark,
> Nice to meet you on line.
> In your company=92s website, I just find some information that =
addresses =93 Vodafone subscribers complained about video performance.=94
> See:
> http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding
> =20
> Dear all in this group,
> In last few days, except the public email discussions I have contacted =
with some people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on =
this issue.
> First, although the market requirement for it is very important, I =
feel I=92d better show up more information on the procedure involved. I =
have explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather =
simple while the wording is not enough.
> I am busy making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI =
meeting and IETF CDNI.
> By these work  I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.
> Second, for that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does =
not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated =
between two CDNs.
> If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to =
complete the transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and =
rates to dCDN.
> Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content =
operating has been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to =
the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream =
operator will handle the transcoding.
> =20
> Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I =
feel currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the =
CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.
> Besides, I like say that the technology on this topic has been for =
many years and has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as =
rfc3507 icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature action =
to be involved in CDN interconnection.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM
> To: Alan Kavanagh
> Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not =
on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.
> =20
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Mark de Jong
> International Business Developer
> Jet-Stream BV
>=20
> E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
> Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
> Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
> Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214
> =20
> - Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
> - News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
> - News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure
> =20
> - Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
> - VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
> - Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
> - Corporate: www.jet-stream.com
> =20
> On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the =
CDN to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
> =20
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever =
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
> =20
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located =
in France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to =
CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while =
in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
> =20
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
>=20
> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
> =20
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
> =20
> Br,
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Zhipeng,
> =20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> =20
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct =
that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.
> =20
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I =
am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
> =20
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
> =20
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " =
uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
> =20
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
> =20
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> =20
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
> =20
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to =
implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred =
in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> =20
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc than for the Use cases draft.
> =20
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & =
to signal about this.
> =20
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, =
ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
"future" scenarios as well?
> =20
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
> rather out of scope(?)
> =20
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
> =20
> Best wishes
> phil
> =20
> =20
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
> =20
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
received this email in error, please let me know immediately on the =
email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may =
record your emails.
> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
> England no: 1800000
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Colleagues,
> =20
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> =20
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
> =20
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
> =20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
> =20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
> =20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> =20
> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
> rights/authorizations apply.
> =20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
> =20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think we can describe this in four contexts:
> =20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
> content)
> =20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective CDN's.
> =20
> Scott
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20
> =20
> =20


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<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://1547/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">Hi Zhipeng,<div><br></div><div>It is a slowly =
growing demand but still very little in terms of =
revenue/demand.&nbsp;The majority of the business nowadays and in =
respect to interconnection will be about delivery on the short/mid-term. =
We really don't get much request for content adaptation on our own =
CDN-service or as a requirement for our CDN-software. So I disagree that =
adaptation is an important market demand at this moment, especially on =
interconnection. I think I have made my point that we stick with =
delivery for the reasons I already mentioned and I think the group =
agrees with that too. Again: I'm not excluding the option for the =
future. So please: let us stop this discussion and go forward on the =
actual work to be done: standards. :)</div><div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
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style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: =
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0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: =
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0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"font-weight: =
normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">Met vriendelijke =
groet,</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">Kind =
regards,<br><br>Mark de Jong<br>International Business =
Developer<br>Jet-Stream BV<br><br>E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a><br>Office: =
+31 (0)50 5261820<br>Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263<br>Fax: +31 (0)50 =
5264214</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"2"><br></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
medium; "><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><b>- =
Event:</b>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, =
UK</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>News:</b>&nbsp;Pre-request=
 your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check <a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</a> to =
download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
"><br></span></font></div></span></span></font></div></span></span></font>=
</div></span></span></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Blog:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></spa=
n></font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>VideoExchange:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 11px; =
">-<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Streamzilla:<span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b><a =
href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></=
font></div><div style=3D"font-weight: normal; font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: medium; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Calibri" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px; ">-<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>Corporate:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></font></d=
iv></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span=
></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></=
span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></di=
v></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 27, Oct,2011, at 9:11 AM, ZhouZhipeng wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi =
Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I fully agree that it is a business driver. So I =
emphasized many times that the content adaptation is a urgent and =
important market demand.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In fact I am not advertising for =
some http streaming products, but the variable streaming solution is the =
real market requirement.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Absolutely CDN is for delivery =
but it should be also clarified here it is =93content delivery=94 not =
only =93bitrate delivery=94.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">As you see =
the operator may develop subscribers only when it may provide enough =
functionality and quality.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; =
border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; =
border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; =
padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; =
">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mark de Jong =
[mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
3:57 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Cc:</b><spa=
n class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan Kavanagh; Ben =
Niven-Jenkins;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As said: I agree this can be a =
discussion later and be added to the requirements in a future release. =
However: in respect to the speed of the process and as the delivery part =
is the biggest majority of the business for interconnection (please =
note: interconnection is a business driver, not technology driver) the =
focus should be =
delivery.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>=
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Met =
vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Kind =
regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><br><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">News:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper =
now and be the first to have it, check<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.jet-stream.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>to download our 'Six Trends =
in CDNs' brochure</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Blog:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">VideoExchange:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Streamzilla:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Corporate:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 27, Oct,2011, at 8:45 AM, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello =
Mark,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Nice to =
meet you on line.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In your =
company=92s website, I just find some information that addresses =93<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"NL" =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(76, =
86, 92); ">Vodafone subscribers complained about video =
performance.=94</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">See:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear all in =
this group,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In last few =
days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some =
people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this =
issue.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First, =
although the market requirement for it is very important, I feel I=92d =
better show up more information on the procedure involved. I have =
explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather simple =
while the wording is not enough.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I am busy =
making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI meeting and =
IETF CDNI.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By these =
work&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this =
issue.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Second, for =
that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does not choose to =
support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated between two =
CDNs.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If dCDN =
does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to complete the =
transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and rates to =
dCDN.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Third, =
although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has =
been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream =
operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will =
handle the transcoding.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps, =
the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I feel =
currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the CDN =
providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Besides, I =
like say that the technology on this topic has been for many years and =
has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507 icap. So =
from the technique point of view, it is a nature action to be involved =
in CDN interconnection.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Thanks.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Zhipeng</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; =
border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; =
border-top-style: solid; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; =
padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; border-width: initial; =
border-color: initial; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; =
">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">Mark de Jong =
[mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan =
Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ben Niven-Jenkins; =
ZhouZhipeng;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de =
Jong</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><a href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">News:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper =
now and be the first to have it, check</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">&nbsp;</span></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">to download our 'Six Trends in CDNs' =
brochure</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>=
<div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
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class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Blog:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
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sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">VideoExchange:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
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black; ">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
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sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
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class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
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black; ">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
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sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Corporate:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div=
></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br><br>Im assuming then based =
on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to have a number =
of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise with what you are =
pointing out below and do agree that there is some work to be done, but =
I still feel that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement =
to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with =
you that content adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a =
very important one that I know Network Service Providers particularly =
require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc:<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On 12 Oct 2011, =
at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may =
select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only =
desires to get his selected =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transferred =
to the client is not worried by the =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special format =
as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP may give a HD format =
content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the =
user select.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>Lots of things may be possible =
to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on top of the =
"core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (based on my =
interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to =
interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is =
targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI =
charter.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing =
related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, =
it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your =
assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for =
the discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for "the core CDN functionality =
offered by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your =
company's webpage has claimed supporting media transformation and =
multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list =
some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing =
main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep =
look.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>I think the core functionality =
maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request Routing, =
Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content =
delivery.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given currently BBC recruits CDN =
providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is to =
send 10 streams of different =
format<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct =
some adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, for =
your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it =
should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only =
receive 1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more =
competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is =
same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider =
with the lower =
price.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get the =
contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>What you are describing is a =
possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a =
core functionality required to enable content delivery between =
interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could =
implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an =
individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So to repeat my =
position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function =
required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and =
therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that =
do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not =
think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will =
only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions =
within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that =
currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in =
the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it =
just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at =
once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern in =
this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussing =
is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deliver =
content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the =
core requirement for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should =
include "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all =
the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern "delivering one =
data block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" =
"geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For "without explicit knowledge of =
what that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is =
accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice =
stream should be transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need to =
know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done =
some work to interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN =
networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done =
between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just =
used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN =
is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what =
representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media by =
the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams =
to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and =
dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about is =
an optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the =
content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should =
focus on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality =
offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of =
the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is =
a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in =
additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today =
as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market =
in a timely fashion =
IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is "security" =
since I have done six years on the =
DRM<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify that =
not only the media itself but the information related to service itself =
(such as the geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not =
for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it is =
important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I =
remember I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather =
simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com=
]<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote=
></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation is =
more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we =
want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) =
HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or =
whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, =
they seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason be =
unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure =
the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples seem =
to be static policy things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; =
preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT =
information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only =
for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate =
Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote=
></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be =
removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a =
content item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which typically =
delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge of =
what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in building =
an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the =
component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
"portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to the =
CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on =
section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD =
is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of HD =
and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM =
scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet "a subset of =
encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of =
content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted =
the Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant =
and Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some =
information that I know in this case and area to explain the content =
flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related =
negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite =
you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since =
I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockqu=
ote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockqu=
ote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: =
Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote=
></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under the =
category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states the =
case where a different device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage =
area. &nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. =
&nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic =
User-A with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A via =
uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed =
to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other users =
in the region of the dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content =
unless they too have such an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions on =
the delivery of specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the ability =
of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly =
understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to a =
"managed path" if such content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content =
distribution via an un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the =
contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the =
distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference set =
of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sense =
where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of =
the media o third bullet make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but I =
don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the =
CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the =
contract defined in (a) above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User and =
dCDN (the recognition of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) above) =
d. The relationship between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockq=
uote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship between =
d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is =
viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c. =
&nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for =
authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user =
doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is only =
afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined when =
the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. =
&nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the =
respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi=
 mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>______________________=
_________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div></div></span></bl=
ockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-845--48670556--

From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Thu Oct 27 03:59:20 2011
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To: Will Li(jincheng) <lijincheng@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgUHJlcGFyaW5nIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtY2RuaS1w?= =?utf-8?q?roblem-statement_for_WG_Last_Call?=
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Will,

On 27 Oct 2011, at 03:34, Will Li(jincheng) wrote:
>> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
>> I don't think the Problem Statement draft should try to describe the =
different
>> business relationships as they are many and varied depending on =
things like the
>> purpose of the specific CDN, the market it is deployed in etc and it =
would be very
>> difficult to describe all the different business relationships and we =
would risk
>> getting distracted by comments along the lines of "what about this =
business
>> relationship that you haven't described" and "you haven't adequately =
captured
>> how this relationship could work" etc.
>>=20
>> Section 1.2 already states that "Readers are assumed to be familiar =
with the
>> architecture, features and operation of CDNs." and I assume if =
readers already
>> have that familiarity with how CDNs work & are operated then they can
>> understand how CSPs, upstream CDNs, downstream CDNs may fit together =
as
>> part of the CDNI reference model.
>>=20
> Agree inappropriate description may lead confusion. However, I am =
thinking of some general but safe descriptions on the relationship of =
these roles, like=20
> "In a typical content delivery service, A CSP contracts with an =
upstream CDN to store and deliver content to User Agents; the upstream =
CDN further contracts with one or more downstream CDN(s) to distribute =
and deliver contents on uCDN=92s behalf. However, these business =
relationships are out of scope of CDNI.", if this kind of description is =
safe to be added below the figure, then it can ease people to understand =
the following staff in this draft.

I took another look at the draft and my proposal is to add a couple of =
sentences to the bottom of the first paragraph of the Introduction =
(Section 1) as follows:


OLD:
   This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
   CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
   end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
   to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications currently
   exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection.
NEW:
   This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
   CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
   end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
   to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications currently
   exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection. For example, a CSP =
could
   contract with an "authoritative" CDN for the delivery content and =
that CDN
   could contract with one or more downstream CDN(s) to distribute and
   deliver some or all of the content on behalf of the authoritative =
CDN.
   The formation and details of any business relationships between a CSP =
and=20
   a CDN and between one CDN and another CDN are out of scope of this=20
   document.

Ben


From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com  Thu Oct 27 04:23:19 2011
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
To: "'zhouzhipeng@huawei.com'" <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>, "'mark@jet-stream.nl'" <mark@jet-stream.nl>, "'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com'" <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:22:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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> To me a core functionality of CDN's as Ben et.al has pointed out is to re=
duce cost, sending 1 stream as opposed to 10 streams is definitely a core r=
equirement and a core use case for CDN-I too.

Maybe. The counter-argument is, do I have to spend much more on surrogates =
/ edge nodes to enable transcoding + fragmentation + encryption? Does that =
additional cost offset the incremental network savings?

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ala=
n Kavanagh
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:12 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng; Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Zhou

Slowly catching up on all these CDN-I emails :-)

I fully agree with your assertion here, I had the same puzzlement when read=
ing the use cases and looking at the lat few "hundred plus" emails on this.

To me a core functionality of CDN's as Ben et.al has pointed out is to redu=
ce cost, sending 1 stream as opposed to 10 streams is definitely a core req=
uirement and a core use case for CDN-I too.

Somewhat orthogonal to the use cases, but a case I feel is missing from the=
 current metadata drafts I have read is to define this case of supporting t=
ranscoding for CDN-I. It makes perfect sense that CDN-I must support this s=
cenario so that CDN's leverage on cost reduction by supporting transcoding.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zho=
uZhipeng
Sent: October-12-11 5:23 AM
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user onl=
y desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user=
.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transfo=
rm to the format as the user select.
In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP we=
bsite.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your ass=
ert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the disc=
ussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever rais=
ed an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media=
 transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core fu=
nctionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take de=
ep look.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related servic=
e. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their re=
quirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnec=
tion, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the =
voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media format=
s.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in F=
rance.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format of one=
 content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y whil=
e CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the c=
ost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in s=
olution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation =
to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the p=
rice from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select on=
e CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is no=
t a core functionality.

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN provid=
ers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as=
 required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,=
 the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection=
 may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
>
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct th=
at the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type",=
 etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the=
 issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.
>
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am =
not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it=
 support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone =
to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice =
to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transfe=
rred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, righ=
t.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this=
 case above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks be=
ing interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the ne=
gotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the =
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. =
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representat=
ions the User/Client decides to request.

> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uC=
DN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers=
 one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multipl=
e media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function requi=
red to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delive=
ry).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of=
 the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpr=
etation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter)=
 because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start=
 trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs=
 support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications int=
o the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is need=
ed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be grante=
d by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the inform=
ation related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should =
be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
>
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" b=
ut I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may=
 save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile =
service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may supp=
ort different service systems.
>
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to im=
plement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in=
 future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
>
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc=
 than for the Use cases draft.
>
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cop=
e with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to sig=
nal about this.
>
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie =
we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't k=
now, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial=
" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenari=
os as well?
>
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adap=
tation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
> rather out of scope(?)
>
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is t=
ransitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN =
trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. Howeve=
r, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to sa=
y that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.
>
> Best wishes
> phil
>
>
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
>
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidenti=
al. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're =
not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or =
using this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in erro=
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> British Telecommunications plc
> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
> England no: 1800000
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>
> Colleagues,
>
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Ada=
ptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to=
 another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which =
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge=
 of what that content actually is.
>
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN i=
s only one component and is the component tasked with executing the deliver=
y of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected c=
ontent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which=
 version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.
>
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow t=
o be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.=
g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior=
 to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).
>
> Ben
>
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>
>> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description =
on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
>> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with=
 different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.
>>
>> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific dev=
ices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
>> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken s=
ome email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
>> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area =
to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN=
 service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
>> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments =
or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in t=
he use case draft.
>>
>> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
>> Thanks.
>> Zhipeng
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
>> To: cdni@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>>
>> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
>>  This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
>> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
>> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
>> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address the
>> scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing access to
>> content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different region.
>> The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to User-A;
>> however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are allowed to
>> retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.
>>
>> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions  Need to clarify if we're
>> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content or
>> the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific content.
>> I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict the
>> distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is HD
>> while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
>> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
>> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
>> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
>> allowing the distribution of SD content.
>>
>>  o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
>> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
>> DASH)  o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
>> offer high bit-rate variants of the media  o third bullet make sense
>> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
>> rights/authorizations apply.
>>
>> Section 10 Security Considerations
>>
>> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
>> think we can describe this in four contexts:
>>
>> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
>> arrangement for distribution)
>> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
>> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
>> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
>> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
>> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
>> content)
>>
>> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
>> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
>> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
>> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is initiated
>> via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use URL
>> appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL appended
>> hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct methods,
>> but transparency is only afforded if the methods are interoperable
>> clearly defined when the delegation for content delivery is executed.
>> Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the respec=
tive CDN's.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

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From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Thu Oct 27 06:10:29 2011
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Hi Mark

So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed t=
oday and ones planed are captured in the use cases document?

Alan

________________________________
From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]
Sent: October-26-11 4:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on ad=
aptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already=
 not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so =
I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first spe=
cs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us kee=
p the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com<mailto:mark@jet-stream.com>
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
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On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization betwee=
n CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers=
 particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user onl=
y desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user=
.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transfo=
rm to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our o=
bjective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on wh=
at is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an En=
d User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 mon=
ths).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP we=
bsite.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your ass=
ert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the disc=
ussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever rais=
ed an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media=
 transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core fu=
nctionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take de=
ep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related servic=
e. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their re=
quirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnec=
tion, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the =
voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media format=
s.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in F=
rance.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-=
Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the c=
ost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in s=
olution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation =
to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the p=
rice from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select on=
e CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is no=
t a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workin=
gs of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not thi=
nk we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions withi=
n the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN provid=
ers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as=
 required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,=
 the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection=
 may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mail=
to:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that=
 the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", e=
tc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the i=
ssues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am no=
t sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it s=
upport different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to=
 a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to=
 G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferr=
ed, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this c=
ase above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks be=
ing interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the ne=
gotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the =
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. =
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representat=
ions the User/Client decides to request.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN=
 delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers o=
ne media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple =
media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function requi=
red to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delive=
ry).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of=
 the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpr=
etation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter)=
 because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start=
 trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs=
 support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications int=
o the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed=
 to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted =
by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the informat=
ion related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be=
 protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but=
 I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may s=
ave investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile se=
rvice and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may suppor=
t different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to impl=
ement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in f=
uture work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.ea=
rdley@bt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc t=
han for the Use cases draft.

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signa=
l about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we=
 should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't kno=
w, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios=
 as well?

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adapta=
tion (HD/SD) is out of scope.
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is tra=
nsitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN tr=
usts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However,=
 i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say =
that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential=
. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're no=
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England no: 1800000


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on =
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with di=
fferent identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific device=
s," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some=
 email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN se=
rvice and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or =
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the =
use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
allowing the distribution of SD content.

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
think we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is dete=
rmined by the respective CDN's.

Scott

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--_000_1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D5170F2D66F3EUSAACMS0701e_
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6002.18494" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D822400913-27102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Mark</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D822400913-27102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D822400913-27102011>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2>So are we defining a limited set of use case=
s or=20
should we ensure that use cases at the very least ensure that the realistic=
 use=20
cases both deployed today and ones planed are captured in the use cases=20
document?&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D975320221-26102011><SPAN=20
class=3D822400913-27102011><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Alan</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-str=
eam.nl]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> October-26-11 4:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alan Kavanagh<BR><B>Cc=
:</B>=20
Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CDNi]=
 I-D=20
Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Alan,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not =
on=20
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect alrea=
dy=20
not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I=
=20
agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first=20
specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please le=
t us=20
keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyo=
ne to=20
get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
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al-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorat=
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xt-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
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class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px"><B>- Event:</B>&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit,=
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October, London, UK</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN=20
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span=20
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href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV=20
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class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
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href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</A> to downloa=
d our=20
'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal"><FONT class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCa=
libri=20
size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DI=
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<DIV=20
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RD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-wh=
ite-space"><FONT=20
class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px">-<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>Blog:<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></B><A=20
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</A></SPAN=
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<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WO=
RD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-wh=
ite-space"><FONT=20
class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px">-<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>VideoExchange:<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></B><A=20
href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net">www.vdo-x.net</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WO=
RD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-wh=
ite-space"><FONT=20
class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px">-<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>Streamzilla:<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN></B><A=20
href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com">www.streamzillacdn.com</A></SPAN></F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WO=
RD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-wh=
ite-space"><FONT=20
class=3DApple-style-span face=3DCalibri size=3D3><SPAN class=3DApple-style-=
span=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11px">-<SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><B>Corporate:</B><SPAN=20
class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DI=
V></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN><=
/DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPA=
N></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></=
SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
  <DIV>Ben<BR><BR>Im assuming then based on your comments below are you=20
  suggesting we are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I=20
  Metadata?<BR><BR>I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do=
=20
  agree that there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content=20
  adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we sho=
uld=20
  address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is a=
n=20
  optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Netw=
ork=20
  Service Providers particularly require.<BR><BR>Alan<BR><BR>-----Original=
=20
  Message-----<BR>From: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
  [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<BR>Sent:=20
  October-12-11 1:13 PM<BR>To: ZhouZhipeng<BR>Cc: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-=
D=20
  Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR><BR>Zhipeng,<BR><BR>On 12 Oct=
=20
  2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Hello Ben,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The UE may select the content format on the CP =
web.=20
    After that the user only desires to get his selected content.<BR></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">But how the content is transferred to the clien=
t is=20
    not worried by the user.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The CP may create a special format as required =
by=20
    the user and ask the CDN to deliver to user.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN a=
nd=20
    the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user=20
  select.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN=
=20
  providers offer many additional services on top of the "core" service of=
=20
  content delivery. However, our objective (based on my interpretation of t=
he=20
  CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to de=
liver=20
  content from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within =
a=20
  short time frame (18-24 months).<BR><BR>Content transformation/adaptation=
 is=20
  not an essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver=
=20
  content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requi=
ring=20
  any CDN supports content adaptation).<BR><BR>In my opinion we have enough=
 work=20
  to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include=20
  additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives a=
s=20
  laid out in the CDNI charter.<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">In this case, it is nothing related to how the =
user=20
    select formats on CP website.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">So, it is the CP and user to decide the content=
=20
    format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that a=
ssert=20
    as your base for the discussion).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">As for "the core CDN functionality offered by C=
DNs=20
    today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage =
has=20
    claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen=20
  service.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features t=
hat=20
    you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thu=
s we=20
    may compare and take deep look.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think the core=20
  functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request=20
  Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content=
=20
  acquisition and content delivery.<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I guess many people have the experience/knowled=
ge of=20
    content related service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN prov=
iders=20
    may satisfy their requirement while not care the internal process. Just=
 as=20
    GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection=
=20
    while not care how the voice is transformed in process.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Besides, I like raise a case:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that=
 may=20
    support 10 media formats.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X=
. The=20
    users are located in France.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">So both your company and CDN-X should connect a=
=20
    France CDN provider(CDN-Y).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">If your company's solution is to send 10 stream=
s of=20
    different format<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution=
 is=20
    to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some=20
  adaptation.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Comparing these two solutions, for your company=
 and=20
    CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much lower.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/for=
ward=20
    10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but n=
eed=20
    to take transformation to output 10 streams.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Which solution is more competitive. it is Solut=
ion=20
    1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and =
CDN-X=20
    or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower price.<BR></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from=
 CP,=20
    how it may say it is not a core functionality.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What=
 you=20
  are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish =
to=20
  implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery be=
tween=20
  interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could=20
  implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an=
=20
  individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<BR><BR>So to repeat my=20
  position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function requ=
ired=20
  to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore give=
n the=20
  workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the core=20
  functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be t=
rying=20
  to add more work into that workload as it will only distract us from achi=
eving=20
  our goal of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are be=
ing=20
  told by operators they needs solutions within.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">So, if we all realize that currently the media =
type=20
    is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and=
=20
    support the media types as required by the market.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when=20
    concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be so=
lved.=20
    Otherwise the interconnection may not be operated.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Br,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">-----Original Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins=20
    [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19=20
  AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To: ZhouZhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Cc: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>; <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
    draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Zhipeng,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng=20
  wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Ben and Philip,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I like to respond your concern in this one=20
      email:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Ben,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I feel what we are now discussing is what is =
the=20
      "core" function of CDN.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. T=
hat=20
      is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requir=
ement=20
      for CDN system.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">While CDN is used to provide the content deli=
very=20
      service.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">What means service. It should include "time"=
=20
      "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the core fea=
ture=20
      for a service.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">If we only concern "delivering one data block=
", I=20
      am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constrai=
nt"=20
      are the core of CDN.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">For "without explicit knowledge of what that=
=20
      content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate =
since=20
      generally a CDN may claim it support different=20
  medias.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">By this opportunity, I like to share a use ca=
se: a=20
      call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be=
=20
      transformed from GSM voice to G.711.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">For the user, he does not need to know what t=
ype=20
      of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to=
=20
      interconnect two systems, right.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I like to know whether you may accept that my=
 use=20
      case is similar to this case above.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I don't think your use case is similar to the=20
    analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In th=
e=20
    case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Clien=
t and=20
    the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the=20
    delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decis=
ion=20
    making of what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to=
 the=20
    User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to=20
    request.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">As for you said selecting media by the "porta=
l",=20
      you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" i=
s not=20
      good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some=
=20
      adaptation to support multiple media types".<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Now what you're talking about is an optimisatio=
n,=20
    not a core function required to actually deliver the content (and repor=
t,=20
    bill, etc. for that delivery).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">My position is that we should focus on how to e=
nable=20
    the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today=
=20
    (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group=
 as=20
    expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of wo=
rk in=20
    itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyon=
d=20
    what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us gett=
ing=20
    usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion=20
IMO.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Ben<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">A good question is "security" since I have do=
ne=20
      six years on the DRM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">and like to promote the DRM all around the wo=
rld:)=20
      If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all =
the=20
      systems should be granted by the content owner.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Here I also like to clarify that not only the=
=20
      media itself but the information related to service itself (such as t=
he=20
      geographic constraint) should be protected also.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">So, trust is not a problem for the=20
    media.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Philip,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is a=
n=20
      issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use=20
    case.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I like to clarify to U that it is important f=
or=20
      you operator since it may save investment if the system may support=20
      different services.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">For us vendor, we are happy operator may inst=
all a=20
      system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB=20
    service.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">But the reality is all operators ask us to pr=
ovide=20
      a system that may support different service=20
  systems.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have=20
      explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple=20
    .<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">At least the Use case and Requirement are=20
      informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you =
may=20
      accept it.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Of course I like to respond your more concern=
 and=20
      comments.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Thanks.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">From: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>=20
      [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22=20
    PM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</A>;=
=20
      ZhouZhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Cc: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
      draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Ben, Zhipeng, all,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I think that Content Adaptation is more an is=
sue=20
      for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases=20
  draft.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The key question is whether we want the CDNI=
=20
      interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conve=
rsion=20
      is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about this.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I think that coping with this scenario is a s=
econd=20
      order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial=20
      standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Us=
e=20
      cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's=20
      all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as=20
  well?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Scott,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Reading some of your examples, they seem to b=
e=20
      valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of=20
  scope.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling t=
o=20
      distribute HD?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can =
use=20
      HLS encapsulation?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">But these sorts of examples seem to be static=
=20
      policy things (to do<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of th=
e=20
      CDNs &amp; CSP), rather than<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">metadata associated with a particular piece o=
f=20
      content. In the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">discussion so far, I think negotiation about=
=20
      static policy stuff is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">rather out of scope(?)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">On security considerations, an interesting=20
      question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - jus=
t=20
      because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the C=
SP=20
      automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitr=
arily=20
      complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only handle cases=
=20
      where the trust is transitive.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Best wishes<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">phil<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Philip Eardley<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Research and Technology=20
  Strategy<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">This email contains BT information, which may=
 be=20
      privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or=
=20
      entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that=20
      disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is prohib=
ited.=20
      If you've received this email in error, please let me know immediatel=
y on=20
      the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and =
may=20
      record your emails.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">British Telecommunications=20
  plc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London E=
C1A=20
      7AJ Registered in<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">England no: 1800000<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">From: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
      [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sent: 10 October 2011=20
  12:04<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To: ZhouZhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Cc: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
      draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Colleagues,<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the =
Use=20
      Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one=
=20
      format and transforming it to another format or representation) is no=
t a=20
      "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is=
=20
      requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually=20
    is.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Let's not forget that in building an end to e=
nd=20
      content service the CDN is only one component and is the component ta=
sked=20
      with executing the delivery of a specific representation=20
      (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component=
=20
      tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which=20
      version/copy/representation of content should be=20
  delivered.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The decision as to which=20
      version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a g=
iven=20
      device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" w=
here=20
      the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becomin=
g=20
      involved in the delivery of the selected=20
  content).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Ben<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng=20
    wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3=
, I=20
        feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactl=
y=20
        correct.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, =
then=20
        we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the ba=
sic=20
        unit is a content copy.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Here the first bullet "a subset of encoding=
s=20
        deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of content=20
        adaptation.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">In last month, I have contacted the Authors=
 of=20
        this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip=
=20
        (BT).<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I have shown BT with some information that =
I=20
        know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility is=20
        currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiati=
on is=20
        needed in the CDN interconnection.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this=
=20
        group raising your comments or questions on this case since I hope =
my=20
        use case may be incorporated in the use case=20
    draft.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">If you have any more question or comments, =
pls=20
        share in this thread.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Thanks.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Zhipeng<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">-----Original=20
    Message-----<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">From: Scott Wainner=20
        [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02=20
      AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To: <A=20
        href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
        draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Section 2.3 Nomadic=20
    Users<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">This description falls under the category o=
f=20
        Geographic Extension<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">yet the third paragraph states the case whe=
re a=20
        different device is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">used in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;T=
he=20
        intent of this use case<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the us=
e=20
        case is trying to address<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an=
=20
        agreement allowing<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves=
 to a=20
        dCDN in a different<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distri=
bute=20
        the content of CSP-A to<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">User-A; however, not other users in the reg=
ion=20
        of the dCDN are<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">allowed to retrieve the content unless they=
 too=20
        have such an agreement.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions=
 Need=20
        to clarify if we're<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">talking about the restrictions on the deliv=
ery=20
        of specific content<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN=
 to=20
        deliver specific<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the c=
ase=20
        where a CSP will restrict<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">the distribution of content to a "managed p=
ath"=20
        if such content is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">HD while allowing the content distribution =
via=20
        an un-managed path if<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">such content is SD (same could apply to=20
        encryption methods, delivery<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the =
dCDN=20
        may have its own<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">restrictions of blocking the distribution o=
f HD=20
        content while<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">allowing the distribution of SD=20
      content.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can=
=20
        perform a subset of<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">encapsulations for a reference set of media=
=20
        (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the=
 dCDN=20
        doesn't want to<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">offer high bit-rate variants of the media o=
=20
        third bullet make sense<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">if the policy addresses QoE but I don't thi=
nk=20
        subscriber<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">rights/authorizations=20
    apply.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Section 10 Security=20
    Considerations<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Aside from the security considerations WITH=
IN=20
        the uCDN and dCDN, I<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">think we can describe this in four=20
      contexts:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">a. The relationship between the CSP and the=
 uCDN=20
        (the principle contract<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">arrangement for=20
    distribution)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">b. The relationship between the uCDN and dC=
DN=20
        (the transitive trust<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">relationship that extends the contract defi=
ned=20
        in (a) above) c. The<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">relationship between the User and dCDN (the=
=20
        recognition of right to<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">download predicated on (b) above) d. The=20
        relationship between the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">User and CSP (the contract authorizing the =
user=20
        access to the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">content)<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The user is not interested in the a-b nor t=
he=20
        b-c relationship. The<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">user is only interested in the transparency=
 and=20
        interoperability of<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">the security relationship between d-b or d-=
c to=20
        the point that the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">authorization granted in d-a is viable when=
 the=20
        delivery is<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As a=
n=20
        example, the uCDN might use<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">URL appended tokens for authentication whil=
e=20
        dCDN might use URL<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't wan=
t to=20
        know about the distinct<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">methods, but transparency is only afforded =
if=20
        the methods are<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">interoperable clearly defined when the=20
        delegation for content<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the ch=
oice=20
        of authentication method is determined by the respective=20
      CDN's.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Scott<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE=20
        type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing=20
  list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
        href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
        href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.iet=
f.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    type=3D"cite">_______________________________________________<BR></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">CDNi mailing list<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
      href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
      href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>______________________________________=
_________<BR>CDNi=20
  mailing list<BR><A href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR><A=
=20
  href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</A><BR>______________________________________________=
_<BR>CDNi=20
  mailing list<BR><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</A><BR>https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTM=
L>

--_000_1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D5170F2D66F3EUSAACMS0701e_--

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References: <0AE82B0F-82E9-4D06-8960-B3EB0D61B63A@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <FB5FB22A028BA44DAC87981CED1F0B4F15EFFA06@szxeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> <FEC849E4-4D2C-40E3-A031-A39A3C7ADB8A@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <FB5FB22A028BA44DAC87981CED1F0B4F15F01579@szxeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2A0AF3CA-36D1-4F0E-8D09-3E29EFBC72A6@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
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On 27 Oct 2011, at 12:59, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>>=20
>=20
> I took another look at the draft and my proposal is to add a couple of =
sentences to the bottom of the first paragraph of the Introduction =
(Section 1) as follows:

Works for me.
A few suggestions below:

>=20
>=20
> OLD:
>   This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
>   CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
>   end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
>   to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications =
currently
>   exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection.
> NEW:
>   This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
>   CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
>   end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
>   to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications =
currently
>   exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection. For example, a CSP =
could

The "for example" does not flow very well (it suggests this is an =
example of why no standards exist - aka the previous sentence).
So I'd suggest:
s/For example/As an example of scenario involving interconnection of =
CDNs/


>   contract with an "authoritative" CDN for the delivery content

s/delivery content/delivery of content/

> and that CDN

The same CDN is referred in the same sentence as "that CDN" and the =
"authoritative CDN". Might be better to always refer to it the same way:
s/that CDN/that authoritative CDN/


Francois

>   could contract with one or more downstream CDN(s) to distribute and
>   deliver some or all of the content on behalf of the authoritative =
CDN.
>   The formation and details of any business relationships between a =
CSP and=20
>   a CDN and between one CDN and another CDN are out of scope of this=20=

>   document.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


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Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


 


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Ben and all,

(As an individual)

A few additional comments on problem-statement:

1) Appendix "A.2.  Prioritizing the CDNI Work"
I would propose that we remove that appendix altogether because:
	* the terms introduced there of "Base/Operationalized/Enhanced =
CDNI" do not correspond to anything really meaningful anymore for the WG =
now that it has been establish (ie there is "in scope" and "out of =
scope")
	* the requirements document is defining a specific notion of =
priority with High/Medium/Low priority.

2) In last paragraph of section 1 (just before section 1.1), the =
references to the Appendices are incorrect (ie "Appendix A.2" shows up 3 =
times).

3) section 3:
OLD:
The CDNI model and problem area proposed for IETF work
NEW:
The CDNI model and problem area defined for the IETF work

4) section 3:
OLD:
The CDNI model and problem area proposed
   for IETF work is illustrated in Figure 1.  The candidate problem area
   (and respectively the non-goals) for IETF work on CDN Interconnection
   are discussed in Section 3.1 (and respectively Appendix A.1 ).
NEW:
This section discusses the problem area for IETF work on CDN =
Interconnection. The CDNI model and problem area defined for IETF work =
is illustrated in Figure 1.=20

5) section 3.1:
I would propose to remove this sentence :
"
 [I-D.jenkins-cdni-names] presents one
   view on how CDN data types/objects could be classified such that the
   problem space of their naming and referencing is not as large as it
   might at first appear because there is significant commonality
   between the different data types/objects required for CDNI.
"
I feel that the referenced document has served its purpose in providing =
some thoughts on metadata but its detailed content has received little =
review/comments and is being revisited as part of the work on the =
metadata interface.


6) section 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 (multiple occurrences)
OLD:
a CDNI WG
NEW:
the CDNI WG

7) section 4.3.
As discussed in 3.1, the Request Routing interface is likely to cover =
two capabilities:
*  allow the upstream CDN to query the downstream CDN at request-
         routing time before redirecting the request to the downstream
         CDN
*  allow the downstream CDN to provide to the upstream CDN (static
         or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) to
         facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the upstream CDN
         request routing system when processing subsequent content
         requests from User Agents.
However, section 4.3 only currently discusses candidate protocols for =
the first capability. So I would propose we add something along the =
lines of:
"As discussed in section 3.1, the CDNI Request Routing interface is also =
expected to enable a downstream CDN to provide to the upstream CDN =
(static or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) to =
facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the upstream CDN request =
routing system when processing subsequent content requests from User =
Agents. It is expected that such functionality of the CDNI request =
Routing could be specified by the CDNI WG with significant leveraging of =
existing IETF protocols supporting the dynamic distribution of =
reachability information (such as BGP) or supporting queries by =
application element for topological information (such as ALTO).


Cheers

Francois


On 17 Oct 2011, at 13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

> Colleagues,
>=20
> At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.
>=20
> As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.
>=20
> Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I =
have highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that =
you think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the =
document is ready for a WG Last Call.
>=20
> 1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
>   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
> NEW:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].
>=20
>=20
> 2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
>   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
>   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
>   leverage.=20
> NEW:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface =
individually
>   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
>   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20
>=20
>=20
> 3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".
>=20
> 4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities for Content Acquisition (section =
5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) but there are not sections for the =
other CDNI interfaces (Control, Logging, Request Routing).
>=20
> The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.
>=20
> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>=20
> OLD:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
> NEW:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).
>=20
> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>=20
> OLD:
>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
> NEW:
>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>      CDNs.
>=20
> 6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
>   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
>   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
>   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
>   - RFC2119
>=20
> After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am =
not convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those =
documents normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a =
context where they are for further information and the Problem Statement =
does not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.
>=20
> Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


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This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole =
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the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.

Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue =
Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy =
les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, =
Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone.

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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div>Ben and all,</div><div><br></div><div>(As an =
individual)</div><div><br></div><div>A few additional comments on =
problem-statement:</div><div><br></div><div>1) Appendix "A.2. =
&nbsp;Prioritizing the CDNI Work"</div><div>I would propose that we =
remove that appendix altogether because:</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* the =
terms introduced there of "Base/Operationalized/Enhanced CDNI" do not =
correspond to anything really meaningful anymore for the WG now that it =
has been establish (ie there is "in scope" and "out of =
scope")</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* the requirements document is =
defining a specific notion of priority with High/Medium/Low =
priority.</div><div><br></div><div>2) In last paragraph of section 1 =
(just before section 1.1), the references to the Appendices are =
incorrect (ie "Appendix A.2" shows up 3 =
times).</div><div><br></div><div>3) section =
3:</div><div>OLD:</div><div><div>The CDNI model and problem area =
proposed&nbsp;for IETF work</div></div><div>NEW:</div><div>The CDNI =
model and problem area defined for the IETF =
work</div><div><br></div><div>4) section =
3:</div><div>OLD:</div><div><div><div>The CDNI model and problem area =
proposed</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;for IETF work is illustrated in Figure =
1. &nbsp;The candidate problem area</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;(and =
respectively the non-goals) for IETF work on CDN =
Interconnection</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;are discussed in Section 3.1 (and =
respectively Appendix A.1 =
).</div></div></div><div>NEW:</div><div><div>This section discusses the =
problem area&nbsp;for IETF work on CDN Interconnection.&nbsp;The CDNI =
model and problem area defined&nbsp;for IETF work is illustrated in =
Figure 1.&nbsp;</div></div><div><br></div><div>5) section =
3.1:</div><div>I would propose to remove this sentence =
:</div><div>"</div><div><div>&nbsp;[I-D.jenkins-cdni-names] presents =
one</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;view on how CDN data types/objects could be =
classified such that the</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;problem space of their =
naming and referencing is not as large as it</div><div>&nbsp; =
&nbsp;might at first appear because there is significant =
commonality</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;between the different data =
types/objects required for CDNI.</div></div><div>"</div><div>I feel that =
the referenced document has served its purpose in providing some =
thoughts on metadata but its detailed content has received little =
review/comments and is being revisited as part of the work on the =
metadata interface.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>6) section =
4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 (multiple occurrences)</div><div>OLD:</div><div>a CDNI =
WG</div><div>NEW:</div><div>the CDNI WG</div><div><br></div><div>7) =
section 4.3.</div><div>As discussed in 3.1, the Request Routing =
interface is likely to cover two capabilities:</div><div><div><div>* =
&nbsp;allow the upstream CDN to query the downstream CDN at =
request-</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;routing time before =
redirecting the request to the downstream</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;CDN</div><div>* &nbsp;allow the downstream CDN to provide =
to the upstream CDN (static</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) =
to</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;facilitate selection of =
the downstream CDN by the upstream CDN</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;request routing system when processing subsequent =
content</div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;requests from User =
Agents.</div></div></div><div>However, section 4.3 only currently =
discusses candidate protocols for the first capability. So I would =
propose we add something along the lines of:</div><div>"As discussed in =
section 3.1, the CDNI Request Routing interface is also expected to =
enable a&nbsp;downstream CDN to provide to the upstream CDN =
(static&nbsp;or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) =
to&nbsp;facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the upstream =
CDN&nbsp;request routing system when processing subsequent =
content&nbsp;requests from User Agents. It is expected that such =
functionality of the CDNI request Routing could be specified by the CDNI =
WG with significant leveraging of&nbsp;existing IETF protocols =
supporting the dynamic distribution of reachability information (such as =
BGP) or supporting queries by application element for topological =
information (such as =
ALTO).</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div>=
<div>Francois</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On 17 Oct 2011, at =
13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Colleagues,<br><br>At the last IETF I said I would =
try to prepare a version of the CDNI problem Statement =
(draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for WG Last Call =
before IETF82 in Taipei.<br><br>As part of that I have reviewed the =
complete draft and made some minor editorial clean-ups to my working =
copy. However, there were a number of other areas where I think changes =
need to be made to the document that I think warrant wider WG =
review/consensus and I have listed them below along with the changes I =
am proposing.<br><br>Could you please provide your feedback on the =
areas/proposed text I have highlighted below as well as any other areas =
of the document that you think require additional work/cleanup before =
you consider the document is ready for a WG Last Call.<br><br>1) Section =
2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for CDNI use =
cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, =
i.e.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Use cases for CDN Interconnection are =
further discussed in<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] =
(which contains a merged set of use<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;cases previously =
presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).<br>NEW:<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed =
in<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].<br><br><br>2) Section 4 =
contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 &amp; 4.2) that are =
each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into a single =
section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 appropriately, =
i.e.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;This section expands on how CDNI =
interfaces can reuse and leverage<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing protocols. =
&nbsp;First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed =
individually<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;with example candidate protocols that can =
be considered for reuse or<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;leverage. <br>NEW:<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and =
leverage<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing protocols before describing each CDNI =
interface individually<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;and highlighting example =
candidate protocols that could considered for<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;reuse or =
leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. &nbsp;<br><br><br>3) =
Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
and Research Activities" but following the agreement at the last IETF to =
move the generic descriptions of other activities into an appendix =
Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I propose =
changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".<br><br>4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there =
are only sections that outline other research activities for Content =
Acquisition (section 5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) but there are =
not sections for the other CDNI interfaces (Control, Logging, Request =
Routing).<br><br>The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is =
no current or past standardisation activity addressing those areas but =
the document currently does not mention that and therefore gives the =
impression of being incomplete.<br><br>I therefore propose making the =
following change to the last sentence in Section 5:<br><br>OLD:<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;The following sections will summarize the existing work of =
the<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;standard bodies above against the CDNI problem =
space.<br>NEW:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The following sections will summarize the =
existing work of the<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;standard bodies above against the =
CDNI problem space. Section 5.1<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;summarises existing =
interfaces that could be leveraged for content<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata <br> &nbsp;&nbsp;specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. =
To date there is no<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing standardisation activities =
in the areas of the remaining<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;CDNI interfaces (CDNI =
Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI Logging).<br><br>5) I also =
propose using the following text for the third bullet in Section 5 =
unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise in a =
sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;o &nbsp;&lt;TODO: Add a sentence on =
ITU&gt;<br>NEW:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;o &nbsp;CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have =
defined (or are working on)<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;definitions for content related metadata =
definitions and specification<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for its =
distribution. However, they do not include metadata specific<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the distribution of content within a =
CDN or between interconnected<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CDNs.<br><br>6) Section 10.1 lists a =
number of "normative references", if we adopt the proposed changes above =
it will end up containing "normative" references to:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-jenkins-cdni-names<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- RFC2119<br><br>After reading =
through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am not convinced that =
the Problem Statement references any of those documents normatively as =
the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a context where they are for =
further information and the Problem Statement does not make use of any =
of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.<br><br>Therefore, unless =
anyone objects I will move the references for the three CDNI related =
drafts to the "Informative References" section and remove the reference =
for =
RFC2119.<br><br><br>Thanks<br>Ben<br><br>_________________________________=
______________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/cdni<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<div><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0"=
 style=3D"font-family: Times; "><tbody><tr><td><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 15px; "><span><img height=3D"100" =
width=3D"154" id=3D"4df073cd-e4cb-4d04-8157-72d48a2a438f" =
apple-width=3D"yes" apple-height=3D"yes" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CB778A.6ECCAA50"></span></span><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 15px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
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class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
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background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
url(http://www.cisco.com/global/EMEA/brand/signature/corporate/none.jpg); =
background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; =
-webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; =
background-position: 50% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; =
"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><span></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height=3D"19" width=3D"18" =
id=3D"e79597f9-2b31-4098-acd4-0891a0bf5963" apple-width=3D"yes" =
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padding-left: 24px; padding-right: 24px; padding-top: 0px; =
padding-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 153, 0); ">&nbsp;Think before you =
print.</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10px; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); padding-left: =
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From flefauch@cisco.com  Fri Oct 28 02:28:27 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Preparing draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement for WG Last Call
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HI Ben,

Comments below:

On 17 Oct 2011, at 13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:

> Colleagues,
>=20
> At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.
>=20
> As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.
>=20
> Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I =
have highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that =
you think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the =
document is ready for a WG Last Call.
>=20
> 1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
>   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
> NEW:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].

Agreed.

>=20
>=20
> 2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
>   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
>   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
>   leverage.=20
> NEW:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface =
individually
>   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
>   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20

Fine by me.

>=20
>=20
> 3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".

Agreed.

>=20
> 4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities

I think you mean "standardization activities"

> for Content Acquisition (section 5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) =
but there are not sections for the other CDNI interfaces (Control, =
Logging, Request Routing).
>=20
> The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.
>=20
> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>=20
> OLD:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
> NEW:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).

Fine.

Just a couple editorial suggestions:

s/of the standard bodies above/of the standard bodies listed earlier/

s/there is no existing standardisation activities/we are not aware of =
any standardisation activities/


>=20
> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>=20
> OLD:
>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
> NEW:
>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>      CDNs.

That works for me. It would be good to get that validated by someone =
aware of the work of these bodies.


>=20
> 6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
>   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
>   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
>   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
>   - RFC2119
>=20
> After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am =
not convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those =
documents normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a =
context where they are for further information and the Problem Statement =
does not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.
>=20
> Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.

I agree we don't want normative ref to the other cdni drafts as the =
problem statement is setting the stage for the other documents.

Thanks

Francois

>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni



Francois Le Faucheur
Distinguished Engineer
Corporate Development
flefauch@cisco.com
Phone: +33 49 723 2619
Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90



Cisco Systems France
Greenside
400 Ave de Roumanille
06410 Sophia Antipolis
France
Cisco.com


=20


 Think before you print.

This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole =
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Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue =
Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy =
les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, =
Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone.

For corporate legal information go to:
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">HI =
Ben,<div><br></div><div>Comments below:</div><div><br><div><div>On 17 =
Oct 2011, at 13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>Colleagues,<br><br>At the last IETF I said I would =
try to prepare a version of the CDNI problem Statement =
(draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for WG Last Call =
before IETF82 in Taipei.<br><br>As part of that I have reviewed the =
complete draft and made some minor editorial clean-ups to my working =
copy. However, there were a number of other areas where I think changes =
need to be made to the document that I think warrant wider WG =
review/consensus and I have listed them below along with the changes I =
am proposing.<br><br>Could you please provide your feedback on the =
areas/proposed text I have highlighted below as well as any other areas =
of the document that you think require additional work/cleanup before =
you consider the document is ready for a WG Last Call.<br><br>1) Section =
2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for CDNI use =
cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, =
i.e.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;Use cases for CDN Interconnection are =
further discussed in<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] =
(which contains a merged set of use<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;cases previously =
presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).<br>NEW:<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed =
in<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;[I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].<br></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>Agreed.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><br>2) =
Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 &amp; 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;This section expands on =
how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing =
protocols. &nbsp;First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed =
individually<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;with example candidate protocols that can =
be considered for reuse or<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;leverage. <br>NEW:<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and =
leverage<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing protocols before describing each CDNI =
interface individually<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;and highlighting example =
candidate protocols that could considered for<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;reuse or =
leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =
&nbsp;<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Fine by =
me.</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br><br>3) Section 5 is =
currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation and Research =
Activities" but following the agreement at the last IETF to move the =
generic descriptions of other activities into an appendix Section 5 no =
longer references any research activities so I propose changing the =
title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed.</div><br><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br>4) After the general introduction in =
Section 5 there are only sections that outline other research =
activities</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think you mean =
"standardization activities"</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div> =
for Content Acquisition (section 5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) =
but there are not sections for the other CDNI interfaces (Control, =
Logging, Request Routing).<br><br>The reason for the lack of text is IMO =
because there is no current or past standardisation activity addressing =
those areas but the document currently does not mention that and =
therefore gives the impression of being incomplete.<br><br>I therefore =
propose making the following change to the last sentence in Section =
5:<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The following sections will summarize the =
existing work of the<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;standard bodies above against the =
CDNI problem space.<br>NEW:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;The following sections will =
summarize the existing work of the<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;standard bodies above =
against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;summarises =
existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata <br> &nbsp;&nbsp;specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. =
To date there is no<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;existing standardisation activities =
in the areas of the remaining<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;CDNI interfaces (CDNI =
Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Fine.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Just a couple editorial =
suggestions:</div><div><br></div><div>s/of the&nbsp;standard bodies =
above/of the&nbsp;standard bodies listed =
earlier/</div><div><br></div><div>s/there is no&nbsp;existing =
standardisation activities/we are not aware of any&nbsp;standardisation =
activities/</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><br>5) =
I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in Section =
5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise in a =
sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.<br><br>OLD:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;o &nbsp;&lt;TODO: Add a sentence on =
ITU&gt;<br>NEW:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;o &nbsp;CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have =
defined (or are working on)<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;definitions for content related metadata =
definitions and specification<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for its =
distribution. However, they do not include metadata specific<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the distribution of content within a =
CDN or between interconnected<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CDNs.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>That works for me. It would be good to get that validated by someone =
aware of the work of these bodies.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><br>6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative =
references", if we adopt the proposed changes above it will end up =
containing "normative" references to:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- =
draft-jenkins-cdni-names<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;- RFC2119<br><br>After reading =
through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am not convinced that =
the Problem Statement references any of those documents normatively as =
the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a context where they are for =
further information and the Problem Statement does not make use of any =
of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.<br><br>Therefore, unless =
anyone objects I will move the references for the three CDNI related =
drafts to the "Informative References" section and remove the reference =
for RFC2119.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree we don't =
want normative ref to the other cdni drafts as the problem statement is =
setting the stage for the other =
documents.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div>Franco=
is</div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><br><br>Thanks<br>Ben<br><br>__________________________=
_____________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
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"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table><table width=3D"543" border=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" style=3D"background-image: =
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"><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" align=3D"left" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 24px; padding-bottom: 15px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Francois Le =
Faucheur</strong><br><strong>Distinguished =
Engineer</strong><br><strong>Corporate Development</strong><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 102, 102); =
">flefauch@cisco.com</a><br>Phone:&nbsp;<strong>+33 49 723 =
2619</strong><br>Mobile:&nbsp;<strong>+33 6 19 98 50 =
90</strong><br><br><br></p></td><td valign=3D"top" nowrap=3D"nowrap" =
style=3D"padding-left: 20px; padding-bottom: 10px; "><p =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; =
font-weight: normal; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); "><strong>Cisco Systems =
France</strong><br>Greenside<br>400 Ave de Roumanille<br>06410 Sophia =
Antipolis<br>France<br><a href=3D"http://www.cisco.com" style=3D"color: =
rgb(102, 102, 102); ">Cisco.com</a><br><br></p></td><td =
width=3D"200">&nbsp;</td></tr></tbody></table><span></span></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height=3D"19" width=3D"18" =
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padding-bottom: 0px; color: rgb(0, 153, 0); ">&nbsp;Think before you =
print.</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"font-family: Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif; font-size: 10px; color: rgb(153, 153, 153); padding-left: =
24px; padding-right: 24px; padding-top: 7px; padding-bottom: 6px; =
"><br>This email may contain confidential and privileged material for =
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disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended =
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact =
the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this =
message.<br><br>Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 =
limit=E9e, Rue Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot =
7 92130 Issy les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS =
Nanterre, Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel =
Givone.<br><br>For corporate legal information go to:<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html=
">http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html</a><b=
r><br></td></tr></tbody></table></span></span>

=
</span></span></td></tr></tbody></table></span></div></div><br></div></bod=
y></html>=

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From: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
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Subject: [CDNi] Content Adaptation
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Folks,

Speaking as a co-chair.

I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the =
poorly-titled "Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt" =
thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.

First, some messages might have given the impression that content =
adaptation was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with =
multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of =
restating the obvious, let's be very explicit that this is obviously not =
the case. A very simple/common way to support multiple types of =
terminal/resolution/sizes in one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment, is =
to have different contents/URIs for each profile.
So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is =
a candidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different =
way.

Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very =
strong win (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As =
Richard pointed out already, this ignores a number of considerations =
such as the cost associated with performing the actual content =
adaptation downstream. Anyways, I think content adaptation may be better =
seen as a trade-off that can indeed be positive in some environments, =
rather than an obvious huge win.
Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while the content =
maybe passed across CDNs multiple times (in different formats), it is =
worth noting that the smaller res/size/quality representations may =
actually amount to much smaller size/bandwidth than the highest =
res/size/quality, so it is not quite a multiplying factor.=20
Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the =
inter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to  1 flow, the base CDNI =
solution allows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total =
instead of once per user accessing the content (as would be the case if =
the uCDN pumps the same traffic to every users because it cannot =
interoperate with the dCDN) which can result in a gain factor of 10s, =
100s, 1000s,.....

I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed (some =
of them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest to =
pause that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into =
the discussion, and then we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on =
the list.

Thanks

Francois

PS: Please think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads =
and don't hesitate to branch off with a different "Subject" when an =
initial thread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.


--Apple-Mail-341-38258030
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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Folks,<br><br>Speaking as a co-chair.<br><br>I have been through the =
recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the poorly-titled "Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt" thread) and wanted to =
share a few thoughts.<br><br>First, some messages might have given the =
impression that content adaptation was required for a CDNI solution to =
be able to deal with multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So =
at the risk of restating the obvious, let's be very explicit that this =
is obviously not the case. A very simple/common way to support multiple =
types of terminal/resolution/sizes in one CDN, or in a multi-CDN =
environment, is to have different contents/URIs for each profile.<br>So =
content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a =
candidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different =
way.<br><br>Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was =
a very strong win (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). =
As Richard pointed out already, this ignores a number of considerations =
such as the cost associated with performing the actual content =
adaptation downstream. Anyways, I think content adaptation may be better =
seen as a trade-off that can indeed be positive in some environments, =
rather than an obvious huge win.<div>Also, without the content =
adaptation optimization, while the content maybe passed across CDNs =
multiple times (in different formats), it is worth noting that the =
smaller res/size/quality representations may actually amount to much =
smaller size/bandwidth than the highest res/size/quality, so it is not =
quite a multiplying factor.&nbsp;<br>Lastly, while the content =
adaptation optimization may reduce further the inter-CDN transfer from =
1-10 flows down to &nbsp;1 flow, the base CDNI solution allows a content =
to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total instead of once per user =
accessing the content (as would be the case if the uCDN pumps the same =
traffic to every users because it cannot interoperate with the =
dCDN)&nbsp;which can result in a gain factor of 10s, 100s, =
1000s,.....</div><div><div><div><div><br>I have the impression that the =
key arguments have now been exposed (some of them even repeatedly) =
through the long thread. So I would suggest to pause that discussion, =
unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into the discussion, and then =
we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on the =
list.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Francois<br><br>PS: Please think of using =
specific Subject lines for the various threads and don't hesitate to =
branch off with a different "Subject" when an initial thread morphs into =
a different topic. This helps the discussion.<br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
"></span></div></div><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-341-38258030--

From richard_woundy@cable.comcast.com  Fri Oct 28 06:07:05 2011
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Content Adaptation
Thread-Index: AQHMlVbjkrelRHW/30KgzwKHb064PJWRtmZA
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:06:59 +0000
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--_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1136D0BEAPACDCEXMB05cabl_
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I agree with Francois, both as co-chair and an individual. :)

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fra=
ncois Le Faucheur
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:49 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] Content Adaptation

Folks,

Speaking as a co-chair.

I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the poor=
ly-titled "Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt" thread)=
 and wanted to share a few thoughts.

First, some messages might have given the impression that content adaptatio=
n was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with multiple types o=
f terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of restating the obvious, l=
et's be very explicit that this is obviously not the case. A very simple/co=
mmon way to support multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes in one CDN,=
 or in a multi-CDN environment, is to have different contents/URIs for each=
 profile.
So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a c=
andidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different way.

Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very strong w=
in (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As Richard pointe=
d out already, this ignores a number of considerations such as the cost ass=
ociated with performing the actual content adaptation downstream. Anyways, =
I think content adaptation may be better seen as a trade-off that can indee=
d be positive in some environments, rather than an obvious huge win.
Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while the content maybe =
passed across CDNs multiple times (in different formats), it is worth notin=
g that the smaller res/size/quality representations may actually amount to =
much smaller size/bandwidth than the highest res/size/quality, so it is not=
 quite a multiplying factor.
Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the in=
ter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to  1 flow, the base CDNI solution al=
lows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total instead of on=
ce per user accessing the content (as would be the case if the uCDN pumps t=
he same traffic to every users because it cannot interoperate with the dCDN=
) which can result in a gain factor of 10s, 100s, 1000s,.....

I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed (some of=
 them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest to pause=
 that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into the discus=
sion, and then we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on the list.

Thanks

Francois

PS: Please think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads an=
d don't hesitate to branch off with a different "Subject" when an initial t=
hread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.


--_000_1CA25301D2219F40B3AA37201F0EACD1136D0BEAPACDCEXMB05cabl_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
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color:#1F497D">I agree with Francois, both as co-chair and an individual.
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0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> cdni-bou=
nces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Francois Le Faucheur<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 28, 2011 5:49 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [CDNi] Content Adaptation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Folks,<br>
<br>
Speaking as a co-chair.<br>
<br>
I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the poor=
ly-titled &quot;Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt&quo=
t; thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.<br>
<br>
First, some messages might have given the impression that content adaptatio=
n was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with multiple types o=
f terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of restating the obvious, l=
et's be very explicit that this
 is obviously not the case. A very simple/common way to support multiple ty=
pes of terminal/resolution/sizes in one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment,=
 is to have different contents/URIs for each profile.<br>
So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a c=
andidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different way.<br>
<br>
Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very strong w=
in (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As Richard pointe=
d out already, this ignores a number of considerations such as the cost ass=
ociated with performing the actual
 content adaptation downstream. Anyways, I think content adaptation may be =
better seen as a trade-off that can indeed be positive in some environments=
, rather than an obvious huge win.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, without the content adaptation optimization, w=
hile the content maybe passed across CDNs multiple times (in different form=
ats), it is worth noting that the smaller res/size/quality representations =
may actually amount to much smaller
 size/bandwidth than the highest res/size/quality, so it is not quite a mul=
tiplying factor.&nbsp;<br>
Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the in=
ter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to &nbsp;1 flow, the base CDNI soluti=
on allows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total instead =
of once per user accessing the content
 (as would be the case if the uCDN pumps the same traffic to every users be=
cause it cannot interoperate with the dCDN)&nbsp;which can result in a gain=
 factor of 10s, 100s, 1000s,.....<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed (some of=
 them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest to pause=
 that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into the discus=
sion, and then we can poll for consensus
 in Taipei and then on the list.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Francois<br>
<br>
PS: Please think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads an=
d don't hesitate to branch off with a different &quot;Subject&quot; when an=
 initial thread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://454/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">Hi again Zhipeng,<div><br></div><div>There is one =
other point I should have brought up in my previous =
message:</div><div>The question is not so much whether there are =
benefits to allowing content adaptation for some environments, nor =
whether one particular individual could conceive an approach for content =
adaptation that suits him. The question here is rather whether it is =
justified for the Working Group to focus energy on that problem right =
now in order to develop a consensus-based approach that suits the =
community as a whole, while we don't even have the base solution in =
place.</div><div><br></div><div>You have made it clear that you feel the =
WG should indeed dedicate energy on that problem right away and =
explained your rationale. Thank you. Others have also expressed their =
opinions.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Francoi=
s</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 28 Oct 2011, at 11:25, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In these =
days I am busy making a summary analysis on this topic. As Richard=E2=80=99=
s request, I like to show my information although perhaps not complete =
right now.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I have done some work to collect different company=E2=80=99=
s requirements and opinions on this =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">One, I feel most of us =
have already been aware of the service of content adaptation, and I also =
sent an email yesterday that Vodaphone now is requiring the solution to =
enhance the performance of its mobile video =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Second, here is an =
article about CISCO : =E2=80=9CCisco urges mobile operators to add value =
to CDN services=E2=80=9D<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=3D468705" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=3D468705</a><o:p></o:p></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I have checked many CDN company=E2=80=99s =
websites. Many claim to support transcoding while some may =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For the wording =E2=80=9Ccontent adaptation=E2=80=9D, it =
should be clarified here that it may be two =
kinds.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">One is only the =
transformation of encapsulation format. For example the H.264 stream is =
encapsulated in APPLE and Adobe format =
respectively.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I know that Comcast has =
a project that needs to pick the H.264 media from the TS stream and then =
encapsulated them into different formats(APPLE,Adobe=E2=80=A6) to =
different devices.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For this kind of =
transformation, the computing cost is very very low and may be nearly =
neglected.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The other is to =
transcoding.&nbsp; For example to support different bitrates.&nbsp; =
Since encoder is a high value facility, we should compare the capital =
cost of encoder and transport cost.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just=
 take a simple model: content is delivered from Node A to Node =
B.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>&lt;image002.png&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">There are two solutions:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">A have the transcoder and deliver multi-format content to =
B<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font: normal normal =
normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">B have the transcoder; A only delivers one format content =
to B and B would transcode.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">=46r=
om whole system point of view, either A or B would transcode while the =
bandwidth would be saved in solution B. Hence solution B is =
better.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Now provided the =
bandwidth is paid by B and B should decide whether to install =
transcoder.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">(Richard has said to =
set transcoder in each edge server)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If =
the cost of renting bandwidth (for a few months) is more expensive than =
the price of transcoder supporting the same bandwidth, it would be =
better to put the transcoder at the receiver Node =
B.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In fact I have investigated this issue for =
much time. While in different area the price of bandwidth may be =
different.&nbsp; And the transport burden between two distant places or =
over a bad nature environment would be much =
higher.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the price in USA =
may be referred as:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/hsi/overview.as=
px#plans" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/hsi/overview.aspx#pla=
ns</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In Verizon, the package =
for 10-15mbps is $90 per month (I feel the bandwidth quality for =
business would be guaranteed). I query that the bandwidth price in China =
may be 50% higher.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not know how much =
the price will be for the bandwidth from Amsterdam to Paris (cross =
country in the same continent).&nbsp; But I feel the price from NewYork =
to Paris would absolutely be very high.&nbsp; As for the Encoder, it =
also varies. Perhaps the price in China will be higher than in USA. And =
in fact the price of bandwidth and encoder depends mostly on the =
concrete business items. For example the price to Huawei may be lower =
than the public price.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By my current =
evaluation in China it is better using the transcoder than renting =
multiple times broadband.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Some people have told =
me that for the operator himself probably the bandwidth cost would be =
very low in the internal capital counting. But for the independent CDN, =
it may another thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, my suggestion is to =
let different ways co-exist. I have announced that to let two sides =
negotiate whether to assign dCDN for the content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In fact, from CP to =
CDN,&nbsp; there are the real businesses that either let CP to provide =
multi-format content or let the CDN to receive one format and complete =
the transformation, depending on the concrete =
business.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By the same logic, form =
uCDN to dCDN, it may be either the uCDN to provide multi-format content =
or the dCDN to receive one format content and then complete the =
transformation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Currently there is not =
the real CDN-CDN connection, hence we are basing our knowledge on the =
related solution to make our solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for the procedure of content adaptation, I just draft =
a diagram as below:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>&lt;image004.png&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">You may see the =
solution is rather clear and the metadata needed would be clear =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Dear,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By my analysis above, I =
kindly invite your ideas whether it may be an applicable and simple part =
in the CDNI item, provided that the solution is open to the types of =
content adaptation and may be optionally implemented in the real =
solutions/business. I feel for those operators that need such =
functionality it would be very good while it does not impact others that =
do not implement it.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; =
border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; =
border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; =
padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; =
">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Woundy, Richard =
[mailto:Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
7:23 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>ZhouZhipeng;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'mark@jet-stream.nl" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">'mark@jet-stream.nl</a>';<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>'<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">'cdni@ietf.org</a>'; Woundy, =
Richard<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&gt;In your =
company=E2=80=99s website, I just find some information<br><br>I have to =
step in as co-chair here.<br><br>The goal of this WG is not to align =
vendor product roadmaps, or to equalize all vendor offerings, or to =
specify the entire CDNI ecosystem. The goal of this WG is to enable the =
interconnection and interoperation of two or more CDNs, within the =
bounds of the CDNI wg charter.<br><br>It is OK to have a discussion =
about whether content adaptation needs to be performed by the dCDN, =
since that decision impacts the uCDN-dCDN interface. So let's find a =
productive way to discuss this on the mailing list, and to close the =
discussion by IETF 82 (if not sooner).<br><br>Can someone describe =
real-life examples where downstream CDN (or edge cache-based) content =
adaptation is needed today in a production environment, or shortly? Not =
merely a feature in a vendor's product materials?<br><br>Speaking as an =
individual, I can find a lot of examples where downstream content =
adaptation is not needed, and any adaptation is really part of the CP - =
uCDN interface (which is out of the scope of our charter).<br><br>-- =
Rich<br></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93=
; "><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">: =
ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent</b>: Thursday, =
October 27, 2011 03:45 AM<br><b>To</b>: Mark de Jong &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.nl</a>&gt;; Alan Kavanagh =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Cc</b>:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Subject</b>: Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Nice to =
meet you on line.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In your company=E2=80=99s website, I just find some =
information that addresses =E2=80=9C<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"NL" =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(76, =
86, 92); ">Vodafone subscribers complained about video =
performance.=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">See:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear all in this group,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In last few =
days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some =
people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First, although the market requirement for it is =
very important, I feel I=E2=80=99d better show up more information on =
the procedure involved. I have explained many times that to support =
content adaptation is rather simple while the wording is not =
enough.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I am busy making some contributions on this and plan =
to upload to ETSI meeting and IETF CDNI.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By these =
work&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Second, for that functionality, in implementation, =
if some entity does not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may =
be negotiated between<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span> =
two CDNs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN =
responsible to complete the transcoding and deliver the content of =
multiple formats and rates to dCDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Third, =
although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has =
been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream =
operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will =
handle the transcoding.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the =
mobile operating. But I feel currently most operator will be a all =
service operator. And for the CDN providers, it may be better to support =
all kinds of service.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Besides, I like say that the =
technology on this topic has been for many years and has been rather =
mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span> icap. So from the =
technique point of view, it is a nature action to be involved in CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mark de Jong =
[mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan =
Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ben Niven-Jenkins; =
ZhouZhipeng;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Kind =
regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><br><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Meet us at =
Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
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margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">- Event:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
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6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">- =
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lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 =
October, London, UK</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
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class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
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lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper =
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text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">-&nbsp;<b>News:&nbsp;</b>Check&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.jet-stream.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>to download our 'Six Trends =
in CDNs' brochure</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
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style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
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black; ">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
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class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
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lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span =
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6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com/blog/" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">www.jet-stream.com/blog/</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
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class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Streamzilla:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Corporate:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br><br>Im assuming =
then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to =
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise =
with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some =
work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a =
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers particularly require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On 12 Oct 2011, =
at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may select the =
content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get =
his selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special format as required by the =
user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP =
may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to =
the format as the user select.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>Lots of things may =
be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on =
top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective =
(based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is =
necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End =
User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing =
related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs =
today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage =
has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given =
currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The =
users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France =
CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of =
different format<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to =
send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and =
CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, =
right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and =
CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower =
price.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how =
it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>What you are describing is a possible =
optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core =
functionality required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to =
differentiate their service but the internal workings of an individual =
CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So to repeat my position for =
a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to =
enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given =
the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the =
core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we =
should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions =
within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions =
within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that currently the media type is =
rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and =
support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning =
the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. =
Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern in this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" =
function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide the content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should include "time" "location" =
and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not =
sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are =
the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For "without explicit knowledge of what that content =
actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since =
generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of =
mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of =
content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the =
Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the =
delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the =
decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to =
offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client =
decides to request.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a =
core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, =
bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the =
content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the =
systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media =
itself but the information related to service itself (such as the =
geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it is important for you =
operator since it may save investment if the system may support =
different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system =
for the mobile service and another system for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a =
system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained =
somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and Requirement are informational =
to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond your more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com=
]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces =
to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done =
in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even =
if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy =
things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a particular piece of content. =
In the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static =
policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an interesting question is =
whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP =
trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP =
automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get =
arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT information, which may be =
privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or =
entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that =
disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is =
prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know =
immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email =
system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases =
draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format =
and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in building an end to end content =
service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with =
executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format =
etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or =
applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should =
be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which version/copy/representation to =
offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented =
outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes =
their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the =
delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have =
two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a =
content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet "a subset of =
encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of =
content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this =
document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some information that I know in this =
case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic =
requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite =
you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since =
I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states the case where a different =
device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of =
this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is =
trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in =
a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the =
content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other users in the region of the =
dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such =
an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions on the delivery of =
specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a =
CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such =
content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content distribution via an =
un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could apply to encryption =
methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have =
its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't =
want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet =
make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the =
CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition =
of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship =
between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><=
/blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the transparency and =
interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point =
that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might =
use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know =
about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of =
authentication method is determined by the respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi=
 mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>______________________=
_________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div>_________________=
______________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></div></span></blockqu=
ote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Hi again Zhipeng,

There is one other point I should have brought up in my previous =
message:
The question is not so much whether there are benefits to allowing =
content adaptation for some environments, nor whether one particular =
individual could conceive an approach for content adaptation that suits =
him. The question here is rather whether it is justified for the Working =
Group to focus energy on that problem right now in order to develop a =
consensus-based approach that suits the community as a whole, while we =
don't even have the base solution in place.

You have made it clear that you feel the WG should indeed dedicate =
energy on that problem right away and explained your rationale. Thank =
you. Others have also expressed their opinions.

Cheers

Francois


On 28 Oct 2011, at 11:25, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

> Dear all,
> In these days I am busy making a summary analysis on this topic. As =
Richard=92s request, I like to show my information although perhaps not =
complete right now.
> =20
> 1)     I have done some work to collect different company=92s =
requirements and opinions on this functionality.
> One, I feel most of us have already been aware of the service of =
content adaptation, and I also sent an email yesterday that Vodaphone =
now is requiring the solution to enhance the performance of its mobile =
video service.
> Second, here is an article about CISCO : =93Cisco urges mobile =
operators to add value to CDN services=94 =
http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=3D468705
> Besides, I have checked many CDN company=92s websites. Many claim to =
support transcoding while some may not.
> =20
> 2)     For the wording =93content adaptation=94, it should be =
clarified here that it may be two kinds.
> One is only the transformation of encapsulation format. For example =
the H.264 stream is encapsulated in APPLE and Adobe format respectively.
> I know that Comcast has a project that needs to pick the H.264 media =
from the TS stream and then encapsulated them into different =
formats(APPLE,Adobe=85) to different devices.
> For this kind of transformation, the computing cost is very very low =
and may be nearly neglected.
> The other is to transcoding.  For example to support different =
bitrates.  Since encoder is a high value facility, we should compare the =
capital cost of encoder and transport cost.
> Just take a simple model: content is delivered from Node A to Node B.
> <image002.png>
> There are two solutions:
> 1)     A have the transcoder and deliver multi-format content to B
> 2)     B have the transcoder; A only delivers one format content to B =
and B would transcode.
> =46rom whole system point of view, either A or B would transcode while =
the bandwidth would be saved in solution B. Hence solution B is better.
> Now provided the bandwidth is paid by B and B should decide whether to =
install transcoder.
> (Richard has said to set transcoder in each edge server)
> If the cost of renting bandwidth (for a few months) is more expensive =
than the price of transcoder supporting the same bandwidth, it would be =
better to put the transcoder at the receiver Node B.
> In fact I have investigated this issue for much time. While in =
different area the price of bandwidth may be different.  And the =
transport burden between two distant places or over a bad nature =
environment would be much higher.
> Here the price in USA may be referred as: =
http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/hsi/overview.aspx#plans=
.
> In Verizon, the package for 10-15mbps is $90 per month (I feel the =
bandwidth quality for business would be guaranteed). I query that the =
bandwidth price in China may be 50% higher.
> I do not know how much the price will be for the bandwidth from =
Amsterdam to Paris (cross country in the same continent).  But I feel =
the price from NewYork to Paris would absolutely be very high.  As for =
the Encoder, it also varies. Perhaps the price in China will be higher =
than in USA. And in fact the price of bandwidth and encoder depends =
mostly on the concrete business items. For example the price to Huawei =
may be lower than the public price.
> By my current evaluation in China it is better using the transcoder =
than renting multiple times broadband.
> Some people have told me that for the operator himself probably the =
bandwidth cost would be very low in the internal capital counting. But =
for the independent CDN, it may another thing.
> So, my suggestion is to let different ways co-exist. I have announced =
that to let two sides negotiate whether to assign dCDN for the content =
adaptation.
> =20
> In fact, from CP to CDN,  there are the real businesses that either =
let CP to provide multi-format content or let the CDN to receive one =
format and complete the transformation, depending on the concrete =
business.
> By the same logic, form uCDN to dCDN, it may be either the uCDN to =
provide multi-format content or the dCDN to receive one format content =
and then complete the transformation.
> Currently there is not the real CDN-CDN connection, hence we are =
basing our knowledge on the related solution to make our solutions.
> =20
> 3)     As for the procedure of content adaptation, I just draft a =
diagram as below:
> <image004.png>
> =20
> You may see the solution is rather clear and the metadata needed would =
be clear also.
> =20
> Dear,
> By my analysis above, I kindly invite your ideas whether it may be an =
applicable and simple part in the CDNI item, provided that the solution =
is open to the types of content adaptation and may be optionally =
implemented in the real solutions/business. I feel for those operators =
that need such functionality it would be very good while it does not =
impact others that do not implement it.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> From: Woundy, Richard [mailto:Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:23 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng; 'mark@jet-stream.nl'; 'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com'
> Cc: 'cdni@ietf.org'; Woundy, Richard
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> >In your company=92s website, I just find some information
>=20
> I have to step in as co-chair here.
>=20
> The goal of this WG is not to align vendor product roadmaps, or to =
equalize all vendor offerings, or to specify the entire CDNI ecosystem. =
The goal of this WG is to enable the interconnection and interoperation =
of two or more CDNs, within the bounds of the CDNI wg charter.
>=20
> It is OK to have a discussion about whether content adaptation needs =
to be performed by the dCDN, since that decision impacts the uCDN-dCDN =
interface. So let's find a productive way to discuss this on the mailing =
list, and to close the discussion by IETF 82 (if not sooner).
>=20
> Can someone describe real-life examples where downstream CDN (or edge =
cache-based) content adaptation is needed today in a production =
environment, or shortly? Not merely a feature in a vendor's product =
materials?
>=20
> Speaking as an individual, I can find a lot of examples where =
downstream content adaptation is not needed, and any adaptation is =
really part of the CP - uCDN interface (which is out of the scope of our =
charter).
>=20
> -- Rich
>=20
> =20
> From: ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 03:45 AM
> To: Mark de Jong <mark@jet-stream.nl>; Alan Kavanagh =
<alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>=20
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org <cdni@ietf.org>=20
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt=20
> =20
> Hello Mark,
> Nice to meet you on line.
> In your company=92s website, I just find some information that =
addresses =93 Vodafone subscribers complained about video performance.=94
> See:
> http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding
> =20
> Dear all in this group,
> In last few days, except the public email discussions I have contacted =
with some people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on =
this issue.
> First, although the market requirement for it is very important, I =
feel I=92d better show up more information on the procedure involved. I =
have explained many times that to support content adaptation is rather =
simple while the wording is not enough.
> I am busy making some contributions on this and plan to upload to ETSI =
meeting and IETF CDNI.
> By these work  I feel the people may catch a whole view on this issue.
> Second, for that functionality, in implementation, if some entity does =
not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may be negotiated =
between  two CDNs.
> If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN responsible to =
complete the transcoding and deliver the content of multiple formats and =
rates to dCDN.
> Third, although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content =
operating has been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to =
the downstream operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream =
operator will handle the transcoding.
> =20
> Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the mobile operating. But I =
feel currently most operator will be a all service operator. And for the =
CDN providers, it may be better to support all kinds of service.
> Besides, I like say that the technology on this topic has been for =
many years and has been rather mature, even some items in ietf such as =
rfc3507  icap. So from the technique point of view, it is a nature =
action to be involved in CDN interconnection.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> From: Mark de Jong [mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:21 AM
> To: Alan Kavanagh
> Cc: Ben Niven-Jenkins; ZhouZhipeng; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Hi Alan,
> =20
> As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not =
on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect =
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to =
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of =
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.
> =20
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Kind regards,
>=20
> Mark de Jong
> International Business Developer
> Jet-Stream BV
>=20
> E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
> Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
> Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
> Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214
> =20
> - Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK
> - Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK
> - News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have it, check www.jet-stream.com
> - News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs' brochure
> =20
> - Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/
> - VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net
> - Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com
> - Corporate: www.jet-stream.com
> =20
> On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:
> =20
>=20
> Ben
>=20
> Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we =
are going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?
>=20
> I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation =
is to me a fundamental requirement to what collectively we should =
address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is =
an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know =
Network Service Providers particularly require.
>=20
> Alan
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
>=20
> Zhipeng,
>=20
> On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hello Ben,
> The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the =
user only desires to get his selected content.
> But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.
> The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the =
CDN to deliver to user.
> While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then =
transform to the format as the user select.
>=20
> Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. =
However, our objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) =
is to focus on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content =
from a CSP to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short =
time frame (18-24 months).
>=20
> Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users =
via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content =
adaptation).
>=20
> In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to =
expand the scope of our work to include additional requirements that do =
not help us address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.
>=20
>=20
> In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on =
CP website.
> So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the =
CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your =
base for the discussion).
> =20
> As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever =
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting media transformation and multi-screen service.
> Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the =
core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare =
and take deep look.
>=20
> I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI =
interfaces, namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log =
production and control plus content acquisition and content delivery.
>=20
>=20
> I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related =
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy =
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN =
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not =
care how the voice is transformed in process.
> =20
> Besides, I like raise a case:
> Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.
> One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located =
in France.
> So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).
> If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
> of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to =
CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
> Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the cost of CDN-X is much lower.
> For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while =
in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation to output 10 streams.
> =20
> Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select one CDN provider with the lower price.
> If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it =
is not a core functionality.
>=20
> What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular =
CDN may wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable =
content delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many =
optimizations that a CDN could implement to differentiate their service =
but the internal workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our =
charter.
>=20
> So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core function required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs and therefore given the workload we already have to specify =
solutions that do address the core functionality required to =
interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add more work =
into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal =
of producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told =
by operators they needs solutions within.
>=20
> Ben
>=20
>=20
> So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN =
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media =
types as required by the market.
> =20
> Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise =
the interconnection may not be operated.
> =20
> Br,
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Zhipeng,
> =20
> On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Ben and Philip,
> I like to respond your concern in this one email:
> =20
> Ben,
> I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of =
CDN.
> As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct =
that the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
> While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
> What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
> If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of =
CDN.
> =20
> For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I =
am not sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may =
claim it support different medias.
> By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM =
phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from =
GSM voice to G.711.
> For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been =
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two =
systems, right.
> I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this case above.
> =20
> I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile =
networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content =
delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content =
Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that =
has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making of =
what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the =
User/Client or in what representations the User/Client decides to =
request.
> =20
> As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " =
uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media types".
> =20
> Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function =
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that delivery).
> =20
> My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
> and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by the content owner.
> Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the =
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint) should be protected also.
> So, trust is not a problem for the media.
> =20
> Philip,
> Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use case.
> I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may save investment if the system may support different services.
> For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the =
mobile service and another system for the FBB service.
> But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support different service systems.
> =20
> Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to =
implement this is rather simple .
> At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred =
in future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
> Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
> To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Ben, Zhipeng, all,
> =20
> I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc than for the Use cases draft.
> =20
> The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & =
to signal about this.
> =20
> I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, =
ie we should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I =
don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted =
to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
"future" scenarios as well?
> =20
> Scott,
> Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content =
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.
> - a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
> - a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
> But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
> with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
> metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
> discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
> rather out of scope(?)
> =20
> On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust =
is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, =
and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the =
dCDN. However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one =
possibility is to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.
> =20
> Best wishes
> phil
> =20
> =20
> Philip Eardley
> Research and Technology Strategy
> =20
> This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named =
above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, =
copying, distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've =
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> Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in
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> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
> To: ZhouZhipeng
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Colleagues,
> =20
> IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content =
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a =
CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested without =
explicit knowledge of what that content actually is.
> =20
> Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the =
CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the =
selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying =
policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.
> =20
> The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and =
allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of =
the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes their content =
selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the =
selected content).
> =20
> Ben
> =20
> On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:
> =20
> Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's =
description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
> If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content =
with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.
> =20
> Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific =
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.
> In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
> I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and =
area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement =
for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.
> Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your =
comments or questions on this case since I hope my use case may be =
incorporated in the use case draft.
> =20
> If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
> Thanks.
> Zhipeng
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
> To: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
> =20
> Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
> This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
> yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
> used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
> needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
> the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
> access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
> region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
> User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
> allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an =
agreement.
> =20
> Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
> talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
> or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
> content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
> the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
> HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
> such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
> methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
> restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
> allowing the distribution of SD content.
> =20
> o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
> encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
> DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
> offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
> if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
> rights/authorizations apply.
> =20
> Section 10 Security Considerations
> =20
> Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
> think we can describe this in four contexts:
> =20
> a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract
> arrangement for distribution)
> b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
> relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
> relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
> download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
> User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
> content)
> =20
> The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
> user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
> the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
> authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
> initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
> URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
> appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
> methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
> interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
> delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is =
determined by the respective CDN's.
> =20
> Scott
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> _______________________________________________
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> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20
> =20
> _______________________________________________
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--Apple-Mail-415-52674518
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><base href=3D"x-msg://454/"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">Hi again Zhipeng,<div><br></div><div>There is one =
other point I should have brought up in my previous =
message:</div><div>The question is not so much whether there are =
benefits to allowing content adaptation for some environments, nor =
whether one particular individual could conceive an approach for content =
adaptation that suits him. The question here is rather whether it is =
justified for the Working Group to focus energy on that problem right =
now in order to develop a consensus-based approach that suits the =
community as a whole, while we don't even have the base solution in =
place.</div><div><br></div><div>You have made it clear that you feel the =
WG should indeed dedicate energy on that problem right away and =
explained your rationale. Thank you. Others have also expressed their =
opinions.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>Francoi=
s</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 28 Oct 2011, at 11:25, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: =
WordSection1; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In these =
days I am busy making a summary analysis on this topic. As Richard=E2=80=99=
s request, I like to show my information although perhaps not complete =
right now.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I have done some work to collect different company=E2=80=99=
s requirements and opinions on this =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">One, I feel most of us =
have already been aware of the service of content adaptation, and I also =
sent an email yesterday that Vodaphone now is requiring the solution to =
enhance the performance of its mobile video =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Second, here is an =
article about CISCO : =E2=80=9CCisco urges mobile operators to add value =
to CDN services=E2=80=9D<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=3D468705" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=3D468705</a><o:p></o:p></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I have checked many CDN company=E2=80=99s =
websites. Many claim to support transcoding while some may =
not.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For the wording =E2=80=9Ccontent adaptation=E2=80=9D, it =
should be clarified here that it may be two =
kinds.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">One is only the =
transformation of encapsulation format. For example the H.264 stream is =
encapsulated in APPLE and Adobe format =
respectively.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I know that Comcast has =
a project that needs to pick the H.264 media from the TS stream and then =
encapsulated them into different formats(APPLE,Adobe=E2=80=A6) to =
different devices.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">For this kind of =
transformation, the computing cost is very very low and may be nearly =
neglected.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The other is to =
transcoding.&nbsp; For example to support different bitrates.&nbsp; =
Since encoder is a high value facility, we should compare the capital =
cost of encoder and transport cost.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just=
 take a simple model: content is delivered from Node A to Node =
B.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>&lt;image002.png&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">There are two solutions:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 36pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>1)<span style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">A have the transcoder and deliver multi-format content to =
B<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 36pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: -18pt; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>2)<span style=3D"font: normal normal =
normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">B have the transcoder; A only delivers one format content =
to B and B would transcode.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">=46r=
om whole system point of view, either A or B would transcode while the =
bandwidth would be saved in solution B. Hence solution B is =
better.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Now provided the =
bandwidth is paid by B and B should decide whether to install =
transcoder.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">(Richard has said to =
set transcoder in each edge server)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If =
the cost of renting bandwidth (for a few months) is more expensive than =
the price of transcoder supporting the same bandwidth, it would be =
better to put the transcoder at the receiver Node =
B.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; =
line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In fact I have investigated this issue for =
much time. While in different area the price of bandwidth may be =
different.&nbsp; And the transport burden between two distant places or =
over a bad nature environment would be much =
higher.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the price in USA =
may be referred as:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/hsi/overview.as=
px#plans" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/hsi/overview.aspx#pla=
ns</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In Verizon, the package =
for 10-15mbps is $90 per month (I feel the bandwidth quality for =
business would be guaranteed). I query that the bandwidth price in China =
may be 50% higher.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I do not know how much =
the price will be for the bandwidth from Amsterdam to Paris (cross =
country in the same continent).&nbsp; But I feel the price from NewYork =
to Paris would absolutely be very high.&nbsp; As for the Encoder, it =
also varies. Perhaps the price in China will be higher than in USA. And =
in fact the price of bandwidth and encoder depends mostly on the =
concrete business items. For example the price to Huawei may be lower =
than the public price.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By my current =
evaluation in China it is better using the transcoder than renting =
multiple times broadband.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top:=
 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Some people have told =
me that for the operator himself probably the bandwidth cost would be =
very low in the internal capital counting. But for the independent CDN, =
it may another thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, my suggestion is to =
let different ways co-exist. I have announced that to let two sides =
negotiate whether to assign dCDN for the content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In fact, from CP to =
CDN,&nbsp; there are the real businesses that either let CP to provide =
multi-format content or let the CDN to receive one format and complete =
the transformation, depending on the concrete =
business.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By the same logic, form =
uCDN to dCDN, it may be either the uCDN to provide multi-format content =
or the dCDN to receive one format content and then complete the =
transformation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Currently there is not =
the real CDN-CDN connection, hence we are basing our knowledge on the =
related solution to make our solutions.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: -18pt; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span>3)<span =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; =
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for the procedure of content adaptation, I just draft =
a diagram as below:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span>&lt;image004.png&gt;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">You may see the =
solution is rather clear and the metadata needed would be clear =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Dear,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">By my analysis above, I =
kindly invite your ideas whether it may be an applicable and simple part =
in the CDNI item, provided that the solution is open to the types of =
content adaptation and may be optionally implemented in the real =
solutions/business. I feel for those operators that need such =
functionality it would be very good while it does not impact others that =
do not implement it.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 18pt; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
text-indent: 0cm; line-height: 22px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; =
border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; =
border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); =
border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; =
padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; =
">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Woundy, Richard =
[mailto:Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
7:23 PM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>ZhouZhipeng;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'mark@jet-stream.nl" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">'mark@jet-stream.nl</a>';<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">'alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>'<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:'cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">'cdni@ietf.org</a>'; Woundy, =
Richard<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">&gt;In your =
company=E2=80=99s website, I just find some information<br><br>I have to =
step in as co-chair here.<br><br>The goal of this WG is not to align =
vendor product roadmaps, or to equalize all vendor offerings, or to =
specify the entire CDNI ecosystem. The goal of this WG is to enable the =
interconnection and interoperation of two or more CDNs, within the =
bounds of the CDNI wg charter.<br><br>It is OK to have a discussion =
about whether content adaptation needs to be performed by the dCDN, =
since that decision impacts the uCDN-dCDN interface. So let's find a =
productive way to discuss this on the mailing list, and to close the =
discussion by IETF 82 (if not sooner).<br><br>Can someone describe =
real-life examples where downstream CDN (or edge cache-based) content =
adaptation is needed today in a production environment, or shortly? Not =
merely a feature in a vendor's product materials?<br><br>Speaking as an =
individual, I can find a lot of examples where downstream content =
adaptation is not needed, and any adaptation is really part of the CP - =
uCDN interface (which is out of the scope of our charter).<br><br>-- =
Rich<br></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93=
; "><br>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">: =
ZhouZhipeng [mailto:zhouzhipeng@huawei.com]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent</b>: Thursday, =
October 27, 2011 03:45 AM<br><b>To</b>: Mark de Jong &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.nl</a>&gt;; Alan Kavanagh =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Cc</b>:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a>&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Subject</b>: Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Nice to =
meet you on line.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In your company=E2=80=99s website, I just find some =
information that addresses =E2=80=9C<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"NL" =
style=3D"font-size: 7pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(76, =
86, 92); ">Vodafone subscribers complained about video =
performance.=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">See:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.jet-stream.nl/search/?search=3Dtranscoding</a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear all in this group,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">In last few =
days, except the public email discussions I have contacted with some =
people and discussed with my own colleagues of all details on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First, although the market requirement for it is =
very important, I feel I=E2=80=99d better show up more information on =
the procedure involved. I have explained many times that to support =
content adaptation is rather simple while the wording is not =
enough.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I am busy making some contributions on this and plan =
to upload to ETSI meeting and IETF CDNI.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">By these =
work&nbsp; I feel the people may catch a whole view on this =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Second, for that functionality, in implementation, =
if some entity does not choose to support it, it may be ok. Since it may =
be negotiated between<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span> =
two CDNs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If dCDN does not support that, it may be the uCDN =
responsible to complete the transcoding and deliver the content of =
multiple formats and rates to dCDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Third, =
although CDNI is a new architecture, while the content operating has =
been existed for years. As I know the content from USA to the downstream =
operator is transferred on one copy and the downstream operator will =
handle the transcoding.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Perhaps, the content adaptation is more on the =
mobile operating. But I feel currently most operator will be a all =
service operator. And for the CDN providers, it may be better to support =
all kinds of service.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Besides, I like say that the =
technology on this topic has been for many years and has been rather =
mature, even some items in ietf such as rfc3507<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span> icap. So from the =
technique point of view, it is a nature action to be involved in CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-right-style: =
none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: =
initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; =
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: =
0cm; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Mark de Jong =
[mailto:mark@jet-stream.nl]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, October 27, 2011 =
4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Alan =
Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Ben Niven-Jenkins; =
ZhouZhipeng;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><d=
iv><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; ">Kind =
regards,</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><br><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3D"apple-style-span">E-mail:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span">Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</span><br><span =
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Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; =
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text-decoration: underline; =
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black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.vdo-x.net" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.vdo-x.net</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; =
margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Streamzilla:</span></b></span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
black; ">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; "><a href=3D"http://www.streamzillacdn.com" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">www.streamzillacdn.com</a></span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: =
black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">-</span></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; =
">Corporate:</span></b></span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: black; ">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
6.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">www.jet-stream.com</a></span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif; color: black; =
"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<br><br>Im assuming =
then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to =
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise =
with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some =
work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a =
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers particularly require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a=
 href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On 12 Oct 2011, =
at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The UE may select the =
content format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get =
his selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But how the content is transferred to the client is not =
worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The CP may create a special format as required by the =
user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">While CP =
may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to =
the format as the user select.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>Lots of things may =
be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on =
top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective =
(based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is =
necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End =
User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 =
months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential =
requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from =
CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN =
supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we have enough work =
to do already without trying to expand the scope of our work to include =
additional requirements that do not help us address our core objectives =
as laid out in the CDNI charter.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">In this case, it is nothing =
related to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">So, it is the CP and =
user to decide the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct =
and seems you take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs =
today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's webpage =
has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you =
feel are the core functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we =
may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top:=
 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: =
0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given =
currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The =
users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France =
CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of =
different format<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to =
send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Comparing these two solutions, for your company and =
CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 =
streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need =
to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, =
right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your company and =
CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower =
price.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how =
it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>What you are describing is a possible =
optimization that a particular CDN may wish to implement not a core =
functionality required to enable content delivery between interconnected =
CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could implement to =
differentiate their service but the internal workings of an individual =
CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So to repeat my position for =
a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to =
enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given =
the workload we already have to specify solutions that do address the =
core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we =
should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions =
within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions =
within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So, if we all realize that currently the media type is =
rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and =
support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></div><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning =
the interconnection, the transformation should at once be solved. =
Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Br,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to respond your concern in this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" =
function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is =
absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the core requirement =
for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">While CDN is used to provide the content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">What means service. It should include "time" "location" =
and "media type", etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not =
sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are =
the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For "without explicit knowledge of what that content =
actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accurate since =
generally a CDN may claim it support different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call =
from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be =
transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For the user, he does not need to know what type of data =
has been transferred, but the operator has done some work to =
interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is =
similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of =
mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of =
content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client and the =
Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the =
delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the =
decision making of what representations the Content Provider decides to =
offer to the User/Client or in what representations the User/Client =
decides to request.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may =
see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good =
than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some =
adaptation to support multiple media =
types".<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a =
core function required to actually deliver the content (and report, =
bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">My position is that we should focus on how to enable the =
interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today =
(which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group =
as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of =
work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional =
functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today as that =
will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market in a =
timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">A good question is "security" since I have done six years =
on the DRM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the =
content is needed to be protected, generally you may know all the =
systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Here I also like to clarify that not only the media =
itself but the information related to service itself (such as the =
geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for =
"Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I like to clarify to U that it is important for you =
operator since it may save investment if the system may support =
different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system =
for the mobile service and another system for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a =
system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained =
somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">At least the Use case and Requirement are informational =
to be referred in future work. So I do really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of course I like to respond your more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">philip.eardley@bt.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com=
]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the =
Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces =
to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done =
in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I think that coping with this scenario is a second order =
requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the initial =
standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether the Use =
cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's =
all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even =
if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy =
things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">with the capabilities &amp; preferences of the CDNs &amp; =
CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">metadata associated with a particular piece of content. =
In the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">discussion so far, I think negotiation about static =
policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On security considerations, an interesting question is =
whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP =
trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP =
automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get =
arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">phil<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This email contains BT information, which may be =
privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the individual(s) or =
entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that =
disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information is =
prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know =
immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email =
system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ =
Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org=
] On Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Cc:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases =
draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format =
and transforming it to another format or representation) is not a "core" =
function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is requested =
without explicit knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Let's not forget that in building an end to end content =
service the CDN is only one component and is the component tasked with =
executing the delivery of a specific representation (version/copy/format =
etc.) of the selected content not the component tasked with deciding (or =
applying policy) on which version/copy/representation of content should =
be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">The decision as to which version/copy/representation to =
offer and allow to be delivered to a given device/user is implemented =
outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" where the user first makes =
their content selection prior to the CDN becoming involved in the =
delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Ben<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel =
Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have =
two content with different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a =
content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here the first bullet "a subset of =
encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of =
content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this =
document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I have shown BT with some information that I know in this =
case and area to explain the content flexibility is currently a basic =
requirement for CDN service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Meanwhile, I should also invite =
you in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since =
I hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></=
blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquo=
te></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: =
5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">To:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; =
">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blo=
ckquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">This description falls under the category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">yet the third paragraph states the case where a different =
device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">used in the same CDN coverage area. &nbsp;The intent of =
this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">needs to be clarified. &nbsp;Perhaps the use case is =
trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in =
a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed to distribute the =
content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User-A; however, not other users in the region of the =
dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such =
an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">talking about the restrictions on the delivery of =
specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content. &nbsp;I certainly understand the case where a =
CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such =
content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">HD while allowing the content distribution via an =
un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">such content is SD (same could apply to encryption =
methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the contrary, the dCDN may have =
its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, =
HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't =
want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet =
make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquo=
te><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">a. The relationship between the =
CSP and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) =
above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition =
of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship =
between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">content)<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><=
/blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">user is only interested in the transparency and =
interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point =
that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">initiated via either d-b or d-c. &nbsp;As an example, the =
uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might =
use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">appended hashes. &nbsp;The user doesn't want to know =
about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">delivery is executed. &nbsp;Clearly, the choice of =
authentication method is determined by the respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Scott<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></b=
lockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; =
"><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p><=
/span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: =
5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span lang=3D"EN-US">CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" =
style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></=
blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; =
margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></blockquote><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; =
margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
'Times New Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi=
 mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>______________________=
_________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: =
0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman', serif; "><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></div></div></div>_________________=
______________________________<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br></div></span></blockqu=
ote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:38:58 -0700
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From: Vishwas Manral <vishwas.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Content Adaptation
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Hi Francois,

Another factor is the DSP resources required to do content translation
downstream in multiple dCDN's, versus upstream only at one place the uCDN,
assuming a fan-out.

Thanks,
Vishwas
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Speaking as a co-chair.
>
> I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the
> poorly-titled "Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt"
> thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.
>
> First, some messages might have given the impression that content
> adaptation was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with multiple
> types of terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of restating the
> obvious, let's be very explicit that this is obviously not the case. A very
> simple/common way to support multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes in
> one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment, is to have different contents/URIs
> for each profile.
> So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a
> candidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different way.
>
> Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very strong
> win (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As Richard
> pointed out already, this ignores a number of considerations such as the
> cost associated with performing the actual content adaptation downstream.
> Anyways, I think content adaptation may be better seen as a trade-off that
> can indeed be positive in some environments, rather than an obvious huge
> win.
> Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while the content maybe
> passed across CDNs multiple times (in different formats), it is worth noting
> that the smaller res/size/quality representations may actually amount to
> much smaller size/bandwidth than the highest res/size/quality, so it is not
> quite a multiplying factor.
> Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the
> inter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to  1 flow, the base CDNI solution
> allows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total instead of
> once per user accessing the content (as would be the case if the uCDN pumps
> the same traffic to every users because it cannot interoperate with the
> dCDN) which can result in a gain factor of 10s, 100s, 1000s,.....
>
> I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed (some of
> them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest to pause
> that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into the
> discussion, and then we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on the
> list.
>
> Thanks
>
> Francois
>
> PS: Please think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads
> and don't hesitate to branch off with a different "Subject" when an initial
> thread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>
>

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<div>Hi Francois,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Another factor is the DSP resources required to do content translation=
 downstream in multiple dCDN&#39;s, versus upstream only at one place the u=
CDN, assuming a fan-out.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Vishwas<br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Francois Le Fau=
cheur <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:flefauch@cisco.com">flefauch@=
cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Folks,<br><br>Speaking as a co-chair.<=
br><br>I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka t=
he poorly-titled &quot;Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.=
txt&quot; thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.<br>
<br>First, some messages might have given the impression that content adapt=
ation was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with multiple typ=
es of terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of restating the obviou=
s, let&#39;s be very explicit that this is obviously not the case. A very s=
imple/common way to support multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes in =
one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment, is to have different contents/URIs =
for each profile.<br>
So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a c=
andidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different way.<br>=
<br>Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very stro=
ng win (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As Richard po=
inted out already, this ignores a number of considerations such as the cost=
 associated with performing the actual content adaptation downstream. Anywa=
ys, I think content adaptation may be better seen as a trade-off that can i=
ndeed be positive in some environments, rather than an obvious huge win.=20
<div>Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while the content m=
aybe passed across CDNs multiple times (in different formats), it is worth =
noting that the smaller res/size/quality representations may actually amoun=
t to much smaller size/bandwidth than the highest res/size/quality, so it i=
s not quite a multiplying factor.=A0<br>
Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the in=
ter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to =A01 flow, the base CDNI solution =
allows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total instead of =
once per user accessing the content (as would be the case if the uCDN pumps=
 the same traffic to every users because it cannot interoperate with the dC=
DN)=A0which can result in a gain factor of 10s, 100s, 1000s,.....</div>

<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed=
 (some of them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest=
 to pause that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into t=
he discussion, and then we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on the=
 list.<br>
<br>Thanks<br><font color=3D"#888888"><br>Francois<br></font><br>PS: Please=
 think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads and don&#39;=
t hesitate to branch off with a different &quot;Subject&quot; when an initi=
al thread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.<br>

<div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times"></span></div></div><br></div></div>=
</div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>CD=
Ni mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a=
 href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni" target=3D"_blank">http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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From: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@synelixis.com>
To: "'Alan Kavanagh'" <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>, "'Kent Leung \(kleung\)'" <kleung@cisco.com>, "'Mark de Jong'" <mark@jet-stream.nl>
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, 'ZhouZhipeng' <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Dear all,

 

I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to ensure
realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced use cases
that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have submitted
under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.

 

Best Regards,

Theodore

 

 

From: Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de Jong
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed
today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document? 

 

Alan

 

  _____  

From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] 
Sent: October-26-11 5:02 PM
To: Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is out
of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

 

Kent

 

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark
de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Hi Alan,

 

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the
first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please
let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of
everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

 

Met vriendelijke groet,

Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

 

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK

- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have
it, check www.jet-stream.com

- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in CDNs'
brochure

 

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/

- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net

- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com

- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

 

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

 

Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are
going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is
some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I
WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization between
CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers
particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben
Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:



Hello Ben,

The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only
desires to get his selected content.

But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.

The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN
to deliver to user.

While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
transform to the format as the user select.


Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional
services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on
what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an
End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24
months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the
scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.



In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP
website.

So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the
discussion).

 

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting
media transformation and multi-screen service.

Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core
functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take
deep look.


I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control
plus content acquisition and content delivery.



I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
care how the voice is transformed in process.

 

Besides, I like raise a case:

Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
formats.

One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in
France.

So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).

If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format

of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y
while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.

Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the
cost of CDN-X is much lower.

For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in
solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation
to output 10 streams.

 

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the
price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select
one CDN provider with the lower price.

If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not
a core functionality.


What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may
wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that
a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and
therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do
address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think
we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions within
the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben



So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
types as required by the market.

 

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,
the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection
may not be operated.

 

Br,

Zhipeng

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Zhipeng,

 

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

 

Ben and Philip,

I like to respond your concern in this one email:

 

Ben,

I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.

As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that
the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.

While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.

What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type",
etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.

If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the
issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

 

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not
sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it
support different medias.

By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to
a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to
G.711.

For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
systems, right.

I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this
case above.

 

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated.
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what
representations the User/Client decides to request.

 

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN
delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one
media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple
media types".

 

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that
delivery).

 

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of
the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its
charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's
not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

 

Ben

 

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM

and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed
to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by
the content owner.

Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint)
should be protected also.

So, trust is not a problem for the media.

 

Philip,

Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but
I do not know why it is not for Use case.

I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may
save investment if the system may support different services.

For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile
service and another system for the FBB service.

But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support
different service systems.

 

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
implement this is rather simple .

At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in
future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.

Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM

To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

 

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc
than for the Use cases draft.

 

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal
about this.

 

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we
should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know,
did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial"
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios
as well?

 

Scott,

Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.

- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?

- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?

But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do

with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than

metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the

discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is

rather out of scope(?)

 

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is
transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN
trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is
to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

 

Best wishes

phil

 

 

Philip Eardley

Research and Technology Strategy

 

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential.
It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not
the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using
this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We
monitor our email system, and may record your emails.

British Telecommunications plc

Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in

England no: 1800000

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

Of Ben Niven-Jenkins

Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Colleagues,

 

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it
to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge
of what that content actually is.

 

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which
version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

 

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.
by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to
the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

 

Ben

 

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

 

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.

If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

 

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.

In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some
email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).

I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.

Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the
use case draft.

 

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]

Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM

To: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users

This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension

yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is

used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case

needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address

the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing

access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different

region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to

User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are

allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

 

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're

talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content

or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific

content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict

the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is

HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if

such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery

methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own

restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while

allowing the distribution of SD content.

 

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of

encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not

DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to

offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense

if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber

rights/authorizations apply.

 

Section 10 Security Considerations

 

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I

think we can describe this in four contexts:

 

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract

arrangement for distribution)

b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust

relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The

relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to

download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the

User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the

content)

 

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The

user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of

the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the

authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is

initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use

URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL

appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct

methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are

interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content

delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is
determined by the respective CDN's.

 

Scott

 

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 


_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 


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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to =
ensure realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced =
use cases that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have =
submitted under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); =
Mark de Jong<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>So=
 are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both =
deployed today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document? =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Al=
an</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kent Leung =
(kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October-26-11 5:02 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> =
cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that =
is out of scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG =
already.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Mark de Jong<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span>International Business =
Developer</span><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><sp=
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<a =
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pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben<br><br>Im assuming =
then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to =
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise =
with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some =
work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a =
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers particularly require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The UE may select the content =
format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his =
selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But how the content is transferred =
to the client is not worried by the =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The CP may create a special format =
as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CP may give a HD format =
content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the =
user select.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>Lots of things may =
be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on =
top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. However, our =
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus =
on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP =
to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame =
(18-24 months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an =
essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver =
content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or =
requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we =
have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our =
work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our =
core objectives as laid out in the CDNI =
charter.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select =
formats on CP website.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, it is the CP and user to decide =
the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you =
take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for &quot;the core CDN =
functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have ever raised an email =
before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Perhaps, I like asking you list =
some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing =
main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep =
look.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Given currently BBC recruits CDN =
providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If your company's solution is to =
send 10 streams of different =
format<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct =
some adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Comparing these two solutions, for =
your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should =
receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive =
1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Which solution is more competitive. =
it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both =
your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the =
lower price.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If a CDN provider may not get the =
contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, if we all realize that =
currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in =
the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it =
just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at =
once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to respond your concern in =
this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I feel what we are now discussing =
is what is the &quot;core&quot; function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As you say, CDN is used to deliver =
content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the =
core requirement for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>What means service. It should =
include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and &quot;media =
type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If we only concern &quot;delivering =
one data block&quot;, I am not sure whether the issues such as =
&quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For &quot;without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually is &quot;, I am not sure whether =
the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support =
different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice =
stream should be transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For the user, he does not need to =
know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done =
some work to interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN =
networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done =
between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just =
used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN =
is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what =
representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for you said selecting media by =
the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the way &quot; uCDN delivers =
multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media =
types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Now what you're talking about is an =
optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the =
content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>My position is that we should focus =
on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality =
offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of =
the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is =
a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in =
additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today =
as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market =
in a timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>A good question is =
&quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the =
DRM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here I also like to clarify that =
not only the media itself but the information related to service itself =
(such as the geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why =
it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to clarify to U that it is =
important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember =
I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that Content Adaptation is =
more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The key question is whether we want =
the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD =
conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to &quot;initial&quot; =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
&quot;future&quot; scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Reading some of your examples, they =
seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a dCDN might for some reason be =
unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a CSP might want to make sure the =
dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But these sorts of examples seem to =
be static policy things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>with the capabilities &amp; =
preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>phil<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email contains BT information, =
which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the =
individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Registered office: 81 Newgate =
Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed =
from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content =
item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN which =
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Let's not forget that in building =
an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the =
component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
&quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content selection =
prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Following Scott's comments on =
section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD =
is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If one movie has two formats of HD =
and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM =
scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here the first bullet &quot;a =
subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed =
the case of content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In last month, I have contacted the =
Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and =
Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I have shown BT with some =
information that I know in this case and area to explain the content =
flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related =
negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Meanwhile, I should also invite you =
in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I =
hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This description falls under the =
category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>yet the third paragraph states the =
case where a different device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>used in the same CDN coverage area. =
&nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>needs to be clarified. =
&nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the scenario where a Nomadic User-A =
with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>access to content from CSP-A via =
uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed =
to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User-A; however, not other users in =
the region of the dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowed to retrieve the content =
unless they too have such an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>talking about the restrictions on =
the delivery of specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>or the restrictions on the ability =
of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>content. &nbsp;I certainly =
understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the distribution of content to a =
&quot;managed path&quot; if such content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>HD while allowing the content =
distribution via an un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the =
contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>restrictions of blocking the =
distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>encapsulations for a reference set =
of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>DASH) o second bullet makes sense =
where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>offer high bit-rate variants of the =
media o third bullet make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>if the policy addresses QoE but I =
don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>a. The relationship between the CSP =
and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship that extends the =
contract defined in (a) above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship between the User and =
dCDN (the recognition of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>download predicated on (b) above) =
d. The relationship between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>content)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the security relationship between =
d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>authorization granted in d-a is =
viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>initiated via either d-b or d-c. =
&nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>URL appended tokens for =
authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>appended hashes. &nbsp;The user =
doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, but transparency is only =
afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>interoperable clearly defined when =
the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>delivery is executed. =
&nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the =
respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
</blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>____________________________________________=
___<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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From daniel.negru@labri.fr  Sun Oct 30 05:44:26 2011
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From: "Daniel NEGRU" <daniel.negru@labri.fr>
To: <zahariad@synelixis.com>, "'Alan Kavanagh'" <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>, "'Kent Leung \(kleung\)'" <kleung@cisco.com>, "'Mark de Jong'" <mark@jet-stream.nl>
References: <20110922193639.11562.32240.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com><4E8506FC.1020701@cisco.com><260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245A694@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com><853F186F-7A10-4EEA-8460-606F20218F33@niven-jenkins.co.uk><9510D26531EF184D9017DF24659BB87F330C58F86A@EMV65-UKRD.domain1.systemhost.net><260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AA42@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com><1E5D2F7D-D855-4082-97EA-E609F089D4D3@niven-jenkins.co.uk><260A32EFD5C9EB47AD504929D005DF6245AD64@SZXEML519-MBS.china.huawei.com><166602C2-3084-4EED-A6DA-E772C4A72136@niven-jenkins.co.uk><1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D5170F26BB1D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se>	<B3C8681F-557C-4770-B8E4-6C43CF385630@jet-stream.nl>	<2979E38DD6FC6544B789C8DAD7BAFC521024D515@xmb-sjc-235.amer.cisco.com>	<1B6D0317D3AD964FBF3956DEFA3524D5170F26BC34@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <00bf01cc96f7$11feedf0$35fcc9d0$@com>
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, 'ZhouZhipeng' <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Dear all,

=20

I would like to add to Theodore=92s email that we suggested within this
proposed draft (draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases-00) a use case for
adaptation. Maybe it could be used, if of interest, for future =
discussions
on content adaptation.

=20

Best regards,

Daniel=20

=20

=20

De : cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de
Theodore Zahariadis
Envoy=E9 : dimanche 30 octobre 2011 12:29
=C0 : 'Alan Kavanagh'; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'
Cc : cdni@ietf.org; 'ZhouZhipeng'
Objet : Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Dear all,

=20

I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to =
ensure
realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced use =
cases
that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have submitted
under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.

=20

Best Regards,

Theodore

=20

=20

From: Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de Jong
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that =
use
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both =
deployed
today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document?=20

=20

Alan

=20

  _____ =20

From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20
Sent: October-26-11 5:02 PM
To: Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is =
out
of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

=20

Kent

=20

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Mark
de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Hi Alan,

=20

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for =
the
first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but =
please
let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit =
of
everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

=20

Met vriendelijke groet,

Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

=20

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK

- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to =
have
it, check www.jet-stream.com

- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in =
CDNs'
brochure

=20

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/

- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net

- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com

- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

=20

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

=20

Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are
going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that =
there is
some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me =
a
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I
WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between
CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers
particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Ben
Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Hello Ben,

The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user =
only
desires to get his selected content.

But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the =
user.

The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the =
CDN
to deliver to user.

While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
transform to the format as the user select.


Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many =
additional
services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus =
on
what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to =
an
End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame =
(18-24
months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in =
order
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand =
the
scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP
website.

So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for =
the
discussion).

=20

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed =
supporting
media transformation and multi-screen service.

Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core
functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and =
take
deep look.


I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and =
control
plus content acquisition and content delivery.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
care how the voice is transformed in process.

=20

Besides, I like raise a case:

Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
formats.

One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located =
in
France.

So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).

If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format

of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to =
CDN-Y
while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.

Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely =
the
cost of CDN-X is much lower.

For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while =
in
solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take =
transformation
to output 10 streams.

=20

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember =
the
price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would =
select
one CDN provider with the lower price.

If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is =
not
a core functionality.


What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN =
may
wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations =
that
a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a =
core
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and
therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that =
do
address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not =
think
we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions =
within
the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions =
within.

Ben

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
types as required by the market.

=20

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the =
interconnection,
the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the =
interconnection
may not be operated.

=20

Br,

Zhipeng

=20

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Zhipeng,

=20

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

=20

Ben and Philip,

I like to respond your concern in this one email:

=20

Ben,

I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.

As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct =
that
the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.

While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.

What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media =
type",
etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.

If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether =
the
issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

=20

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am =
not
sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it
support different medias.

By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone =
to
a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice =
to
G.711.

For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
systems, right.

I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to =
this
case above.

=20

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery =
the
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and =
the
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been =
negotiated.
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations =
the
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what
representations the User/Client decides to request.

=20

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " =
uCDN
delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers =
one
media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple
media types".

=20

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for =
that
delivery).

=20

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection =
of
the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in =
its
charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. =
Let's
not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the =
majority
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

=20

Ben

=20

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM

and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is =
needed
to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be =
granted by
the content owner.

Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
information related to service itself (such as the geographic =
constraint)
should be protected also.

So, trust is not a problem for the media.

=20

Philip,

Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" =
but
I do not know why it is not for Use case.

I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it =
may
save investment if the system may support different services.

For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile
service and another system for the FBB service.

But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may =
support
different service systems.

=20

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
implement this is rather simple .

At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred =
in
future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.

Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM

To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

=20

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements =
doc
than for the Use cases draft.

=20

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to =
cope
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to =
signal
about this.

=20

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie =
we
should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't =
know,
did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial"
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" =
scenarios
as well?

=20

Scott,

Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.

- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?

- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?

But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do

with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than

metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the

discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is

rather out of scope(?)

=20

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is
transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and =
uCDN
trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility =
is
to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

=20

Best wishes

phil

=20

=20

Philip Eardley

Research and Technology Strategy

=20

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or =
confidential.
It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're =
not
the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or =
using
this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We
monitor our email system, and may record your emails.

British Telecommunications plc

Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in

England no: 1800000

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

Of Ben Niven-Jenkins

Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Colleagues,

=20

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming =
it
to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN =
which
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit =
knowledge
of what that content actually is.

=20

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN =
is
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the =
delivery
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on =
which
version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

=20

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow =
to
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN =
(e.g.
by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior =
to
the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

=20

Ben

=20

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

=20

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description =
on
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.

If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

=20

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.

In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken =
some
email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).

I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area =
to
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.

Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments =
or
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in =
the
use case draft.

=20

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]

Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM

To: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

=20

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users

This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension

yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is

used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case

needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address

the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing

access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different

region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to

User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are

allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

=20

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're

talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content

or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific

content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict

the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is

HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if

such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery

methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own

restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while

allowing the distribution of SD content.

=20

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of

encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not

DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to

offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense

if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber

rights/authorizations apply.

=20

Section 10 Security Considerations

=20

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I

think we can describe this in four contexts:

=20

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract

arrangement for distribution)

b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust

relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The

relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to

download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the

User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the

content)

=20

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The

user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of

the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the

authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is

initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use

URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL

appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct

methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are

interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content

delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is
determined by the respective CDN's.

=20

Scott

=20

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

=20

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

=20


_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DFR link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I would like to add to Theodore&#8217;s email that we suggested =
within this proposed draft (draft-fmn-cdni-advanced-use-cases-00) a use =
case for adaptation. Maybe it could be used, if of interest, for future =
discussions on content adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Daniel <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De&nbsp;:</s=
pan></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>De la part =
de</b> Theodore Zahariadis<br><b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> dimanche 30 octobre =
2011 12:29<br><b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> 'Alan Kavanagh'; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; =
'Mark de Jong'<br><b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
'ZhouZhipeng'<br><b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to =
ensure realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced =
use cases that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have =
submitted under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEL =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEL =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Alan =
Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, =
October 27, 2011 12:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de =
Jong<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEL><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>So=
 are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both =
deployed today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document? =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Al=
an</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kent Leung =
(kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October-26-11 5:02 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> =
cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that =
is out of scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG =
already.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Mark de Jong<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span>International Business =
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p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben<br><br>Im assuming =
then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to =
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise =
with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some =
work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a =
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers particularly require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The UE may select the content =
format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his =
selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But how the content is transferred =
to the client is not worried by the =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The CP may create a special format =
as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CP may give a HD format =
content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the =
user select.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>Lots of things may =
be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on =
top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. However, our =
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus =
on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP =
to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame =
(18-24 months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an =
essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver =
content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or =
requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we =
have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our =
work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our =
core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In this case, it is nothing related =
to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, it is the CP and user to decide =
the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you =
take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for &quot;the core CDN =
functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have ever raised an email =
before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Perhaps, I like asking you list =
some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing =
main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep =
look.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Given currently BBC recruits CDN =
providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If your company's solution is to =
send 10 streams of different =
format<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct =
some adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Comparing these two solutions, for =
your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should =
receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive =
1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Which solution is more competitive. =
it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both =
your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the =
lower price.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If a CDN provider may not get the =
contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, if we all realize that =
currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in =
the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it =
just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at =
once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to respond your concern in =
this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I feel what we are now discussing =
is what is the &quot;core&quot; function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As you say, CDN is used to deliver =
content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the =
core requirement for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>What means service. It should =
include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and &quot;media =
type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If we only concern &quot;delivering =
one data block&quot;, I am not sure whether the issues such as =
&quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For &quot;without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually is &quot;, I am not sure whether =
the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support =
different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice =
stream should be transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For the user, he does not need to =
know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done =
some work to interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN =
networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done =
between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just =
used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN =
is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what =
representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for you said selecting media by =
the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the way &quot; uCDN delivers =
multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media =
types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Now what you're talking about is an =
optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the =
content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>My position is that we should focus =
on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality =
offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of =
the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is =
a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in =
additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today =
as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market =
in a timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>A good question is =
&quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the =
DRM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here I also like to clarify that =
not only the media itself but the information related to service itself =
(such as the geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why =
it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to clarify to U that it is =
important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember =
I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that Content Adaptation is =
more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The key question is whether we want =
the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD =
conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to &quot;initial&quot; =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
&quot;future&quot; scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Reading some of your examples, they =
seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a dCDN might for some reason be =
unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a CSP might want to make sure the =
dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But these sorts of examples seem to =
be static policy things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>with the capabilities &amp; =
preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>phil<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email contains BT information, =
which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the =
individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Registered office: 81 Newgate =
Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed =
from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content =
item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN which =
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Let's not forget that in building =
an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the =
component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
&quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content selection =
prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Following Scott's comments on =
section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD =
is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If one movie has two formats of HD =
and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM =
scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here the first bullet &quot;a =
subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed =
the case of content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In last month, I have contacted the =
Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and =
Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I have shown BT with some =
information that I know in this case and area to explain the content =
flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related =
negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Meanwhile, I should also invite you =
in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I =
hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This description falls under the =
category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>yet the third paragraph states the =
case where a different device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>used in the same CDN coverage area. =
&nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>needs to be clarified. =
&nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the scenario where a Nomadic User-A =
with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>access to content from CSP-A via =
uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed =
to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User-A; however, not other users in =
the region of the dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowed to retrieve the content =
unless they too have such an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>talking about the restrictions on =
the delivery of specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>or the restrictions on the ability =
of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>content. &nbsp;I certainly =
understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the distribution of content to a =
&quot;managed path&quot; if such content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>HD while allowing the content =
distribution via an un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the =
contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>restrictions of blocking the =
distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>encapsulations for a reference set =
of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>DASH) o second bullet makes sense =
where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>offer high bit-rate variants of the =
media o third bullet make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>if the policy addresses QoE but I =
don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>a. The relationship between the CSP =
and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship that extends the =
contract defined in (a) above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship between the User and =
dCDN (the recognition of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>download predicated on (b) above) =
d. The relationship between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>content)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the security relationship between =
d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>authorization granted in d-a is =
viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>initiated via either d-b or d-c. =
&nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>URL appended tokens for =
authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>appended hashes. &nbsp;The user =
doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, but transparency is only =
afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>interoperable clearly defined when =
the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>delivery is executed. =
&nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the =
respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 09:35:00 +0000
From: ZhouZhipeng <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
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From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 31 04:46:07 2011
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Francois,

On 28 Oct 2011, at 00:52, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:
> On 27 Oct 2011, at 12:59, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>> OLD:
>>  This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
>>  CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
>>  end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
>>  to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications =
currently
>>  exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection.
>> NEW:
>>  This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
>>  CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
>>  end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
>>  to End Users.  However, no standards or open specifications =
currently
>>  exist to facilitate such CDN interconnection. For example, a CSP =
could
>=20
> The "for example" does not flow very well (it suggests this is an =
example of why no standards exist - aka the previous sentence).
> So I'd suggest:
> s/For example/As an example of scenario involving interconnection of =
CDNs/

I've just rearranged the ordering slightly so the "however, no =
standards..." comes after the example.

The paragraph nows reads:
   This creates a requirement for interconnecting standalone
   CDNs so that their collective CDN footprint can be leveraged for the
   end-to-end delivery of content from Content Service Providers (CSPs)
   to End Users.  For example, a CSP could contract with an
   "authoritative" CDN for the delivery of content and that
   authoritative CDN could contract with one or more downstream CDN(s)
   to distribute and deliver some or all of the content on behalf of the
   authoritative CDN.  The formation and details of any business
   relationships between a CSP and a CDN and between one CDN and another
   CDN are out of scope of this document.  However, no standards or open
   specifications currently exist to facilitate such CDN
   interconnection.

If you still prefer s/For example/As an example/ I can pick that up in =
the next revision?


>>  contract with an "authoritative" CDN for the delivery content
>=20
> s/delivery content/delivery of content/

Done.

>> and that CDN
>=20
> The same CDN is referred in the same sentence as "that CDN" and the =
"authoritative CDN". Might be better to always refer to it the same way:
> s/that CDN/that authoritative CDN/

Done.

>=20
>=20
> Francois
>=20
>>  could contract with one or more downstream CDN(s) to distribute and
>>  deliver some or all of the content on behalf of the authoritative =
CDN.
>>  The formation and details of any business relationships between a =
CSP and=20
>>  a CDN and between one CDN and another CDN are out of scope of this=20=

>>  document.
>>=20
>> Ben
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>=20
> <image001.jpg>
>=20
> Francois Le Faucheur
> Distinguished Engineer
> Corporate Development
> flefauch@cisco.com
> Phone: +33 49 723 2619
> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Cisco Systems France
> Greenside
> 400 Ave de Roumanille
> 06410 Sophia Antipolis
> France
> Cisco.com
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> <green.gif>
> Think before you print.
>=20
> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the =
sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or =
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended =
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact =
the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.
>=20
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>=20
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>=20
>=20


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 31 05:08:57 2011
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On 28 Oct 2011, at 02:02, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:

> Ben and all,
>=20
> (As an individual)
>=20
> A few additional comments on problem-statement:
>=20
> 1) Appendix "A.2.  Prioritizing the CDNI Work"
> I would propose that we remove that appendix altogether because:

Done.

> 	* the terms introduced there of "Base/Operationalized/Enhanced =
CDNI" do not correspond to anything really meaningful anymore for the WG =
now that it has been establish (ie there is "in scope" and "out of =
scope")
> 	* the requirements document is defining a specific notion of =
priority with High/Medium/Low priority.
>=20
> 2) In last paragraph of section 1 (just before section 1.1), the =
references to the Appendices are incorrect (ie "Appendix A.2" shows up 3 =
times).

I've reworded the last paragraph so it doesn't refer to the appendices =
(as they're supposed to be removed by the RFC Editor prior to =
publication anyway)  and so it summarises the content of the sections in =
the main document body.

The paragraph now reads:
   The goal of this document is to outline the problem area of CDN
   interconnection (CDNI) for the IETF.  Section 2 discusses the use
   cases for CDN interconnection.  Section 3 presents the CDNI model and
   problem area being considered by the IETF.  Section 4 describes each
   CDNI interface individually and highlights example candidate
   protocols that could considered for reuse or leveraging to implement
   the CDNI interfaces.  Section 5 provides a gap analysis against the
   work of other standards organizations.  Section 6 describes the
   relationships between the CDNI problem space and other relevant IETF
   Working Groups.

>=20
> 3) section 3:
> OLD:
> The CDNI model and problem area proposed for IETF work
> NEW:
> The CDNI model and problem area defined for the IETF work

Done.

> 4) section 3:
> OLD:
> The CDNI model and problem area proposed
>    for IETF work is illustrated in Figure 1.  The candidate problem =
area
>    (and respectively the non-goals) for IETF work on CDN =
Interconnection
>    are discussed in Section 3.1 (and respectively Appendix A.1 ).
> NEW:
> This section discusses the problem area for IETF work on CDN =
Interconnection. The CDNI model and problem area defined for IETF work =
is illustrated in Figure 1.=20

Done.=20

> 5) section 3.1:
> I would propose to remove this sentence :
> "
>  [I-D.jenkins-cdni-names] presents one
>    view on how CDN data types/objects could be classified such that =
the
>    problem space of their naming and referencing is not as large as it
>    might at first appear because there is significant commonality
>    between the different data types/objects required for CDNI.
> "

Done.

> I feel that the referenced document has served its purpose in =
providing some thoughts on metadata but its detailed content has =
received little review/comments and is being revisited as part of the =
work on the metadata interface.
>=20
>=20
> 6) section 4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 (multiple occurrences)
> OLD:
> a CDNI WG
> NEW:
> the CDNI WG

Done throughout the document.

> 7) section 4.3.
> As discussed in 3.1, the Request Routing interface is likely to cover =
two capabilities:
> *  allow the upstream CDN to query the downstream CDN at request-
>          routing time before redirecting the request to the downstream
>          CDN
> *  allow the downstream CDN to provide to the upstream CDN (static
>          or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) to
>          facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the upstream =
CDN
>          request routing system when processing subsequent content
>          requests from User Agents.
> However, section 4.3 only currently discusses candidate protocols for =
the first capability. So I would propose we add something along the =
lines of:
> "As discussed in section 3.1, the CDNI Request Routing interface is =
also expected to enable a downstream CDN to provide to the upstream CDN =
(static or dynamic) information (e.g. resources, footprint, load) to =
facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the upstream CDN request =
routing system when processing subsequent content requests from User =
Agents. It is expected that such functionality of the CDNI request =
Routing could be specified by the CDNI WG with significant leveraging of =
existing IETF protocols supporting the dynamic distribution of =
reachability information (such as BGP) or supporting queries by =
application element for topological information (such as ALTO).

Done but I tweaked the wording slightly, the final words I went with =
are:

   Additionally, as discussed in Section 3, the CDNI Request Routing
   interface is also expected to enable a downstream CDN to provide to
   the upstream CDN (static or dynamic) information (e.g. resources,
   footprint, load) to facilitate selection of the downstream CDN by the
   upstream CDN request routing system when processing subsequent
   content requests from User Agents.  It is expected that such
   functionality of the CDNI request Routing could be specified by the
   CDNI WG with significant leveraging of existing IETF protocols
   supporting the dynamic distribution of reachability information (for
   example by leveraging existing routing protocols) or supporting
   application level queries for topological information (for example
   by leveraging ALTO).

Ben


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 31 05:12:17 2011
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Francois,

On 28 Oct 2011, at 10:27, Francois Le Faucheur wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2011, at 13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>>=20
>> OLD:
>>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
>> NEW:
>>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).
>=20
> Fine.
>=20
> Just a couple editorial suggestions:
>=20
> s/of the standard bodies above/of the standard bodies listed earlier/

Done.

> s/there is no existing standardisation activities/we are not aware of =
any standardisation activities/

Done.

>> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>>=20
>> OLD:
>>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
>> NEW:
>>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>>      CDNs.
>=20
> That works for me. It would be good to get that validated by someone =
aware of the work of these bodies.

Sure, if someone can volunteer to do that or can suggest someone who may =
be able to to that validation I'm happy to adjust the text according to =
any suggestions they make.

Ben


From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 31 06:05:03 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Preparing draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement for WG Last Call
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On 28 Oct 2011, at 17:49, Woundy, Richard wrote:

> >   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on) =
definitions for content related metadata definitions and specification =
for its distribution.
> =20
> Are we referring to these CableLabs specifications?
> =20
> =
http://www.cablelabs.com/specifications/MD-SP-CONTENTv3.0-I01-100812.pdf
> =
http://www.cablelabs.com/projects/metadata/specifications/specifications30=
.html

I believe so, the reference we have currently have for CableLabs is this =
URI

http://www.cablelabs.com/projects/metadata/primer/

which provides some background and has a link to the actual CableLabs =
metadata specifications.

> Do we have references for the SNIA and ITU specs as well?

The current reference we have for SNIA is this URI:

http://www.snia.org/tech_activities/standards/curr_standards/cdmi

which has links to the CDMI v1.0 and CDMI v1.0.1 specifications.

I'm not sure what the right ITU reference is for metadata but if someone =
can suggest one I will include it.

Ben


> =20
> -- Rich
> =20
> From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Francois Le Faucheur
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:28 AM
> To: Ben Niven-Jenkins
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Preparing draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement for WG =
Last Call
> =20
> HI Ben,
> =20
> Comments below:
> =20
> On 17 Oct 2011, at 13:07, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Colleagues,
>=20
> At the last IETF I said I would try to prepare a version of the CDNI =
problem Statement (draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement) that is ready for =
WG Last Call before IETF82 in Taipei.
>=20
> As part of that I have reviewed the complete draft and made some minor =
editorial clean-ups to my working copy. However, there were a number of =
other areas where I think changes need to be made to the document that I =
think warrant wider WG review/consensus and I have listed them below =
along with the changes I am proposing.
>=20
> Could you please provide your feedback on the areas/proposed text I =
have highlighted below as well as any other areas of the document that =
you think require additional work/cleanup before you consider the =
document is ready for a WG Last Call.
>=20
> 1) Section 2: Update the last paragraph to reference the WG draft for =
CDNI use cases and remove reference to draft-watson-cdni-use-cases, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases] (which contains a merged set of use
>   cases previously presented in [I-D.watson-cdni-use-cases] and
>   [I-D.bertrand-cdni-use-cases-00]).
> NEW:
>   Use cases for CDN Interconnection are further discussed in
>   [I-D.ietf-cdni-use-cases].
> =20
> Agreed.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2) Section 4 contains an introduction and 2 sub-sections (4.1 & 4.2) =
that are each just a couple of sentences, so I propose merging them into =
a single section and changing the first two sentences of section 4 =
appropriately, i.e.
>=20
> OLD:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols.  First the "reuse instead of reinvent" design
>   principle is restated, then each inetrface is discussed individually
>   with example candidate protocols that can be considered for reuse or
>   leverage.=20
> NEW:
>   This section expands on how CDNI interfaces can reuse and leverage
>   existing protocols before describing each CDNI interface =
individually
>   and highlighting example candidate protocols that could considered =
for
>   reuse or leveraging to implement the CDNI interfaces. =20
> =20
> Fine by me.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 3) Section 5 is currently title "Gap Analysis of relevant =
Standardisation and Research Activities" but following the agreement at =
the last IETF to move the generic descriptions of other activities into =
an appendix Section 5 no longer references any research activities so I =
propose changing the title to" Gap Analysis of relevant Standardisation =
activities".
> =20
> Agreed.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 4) After the general introduction in Section 5 there are only sections =
that outline other research activities
> =20
> I think you mean "standardization activities"
>=20
>=20
> for Content Acquisition (section 5.1) and CDNI Metadata (Section 5.2) =
but there are not sections for the other CDNI interfaces (Control, =
Logging, Request Routing).
>=20
> The reason for the lack of text is IMO because there is no current or =
past standardisation activity addressing those areas but the document =
currently does not mention that and therefore gives the impression of =
being incomplete.
>=20
> I therefore propose making the following change to the last sentence =
in Section 5:
>=20
> OLD:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space.
> NEW:
>   The following sections will summarize the existing work of the
>   standard bodies above against the CDNI problem space. Section 5.1
>   summarises existing interfaces that could be leveraged for content
>   acquisition between CDNs and Section 5.2 summarises existing =
metadata=20
>   specifications that may be applicable to CDNI. To date there is no
>   existing standardisation activities in the areas of the remaining
>   CDNI interfaces (CDNI Request Routing, CDNI Control and CDNI =
Logging).
> =20
> Fine.
> =20
> Just a couple editorial suggestions:
> =20
> s/of the standard bodies above/of the standard bodies listed earlier/
> =20
> s/there is no existing standardisation activities/we are not aware of =
any standardisation activities/
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 5) I also propose using the following text for the third bullet in =
Section 5 unless someone can suggest more appropriate text to summarise =
in a sentence or two any CDN metadata related work in other standards =
bodies.
>=20
> OLD:
>   o  <TODO: Add a sentence on ITU>
> NEW:
>   o  CableLabs, SNIA and ITU have defined (or are working on)
>      definitions for content related metadata definitions and =
specification
>      for its distribution. However, they do not include metadata =
specific
>      to the distribution of content within a CDN or between =
interconnected
>      CDNs.
> =20
> That works for me. It would be good to get that validated by someone =
aware of the work of these bodies.
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 6) Section 10.1 lists a number of "normative references", if we adopt =
the proposed changes above it will end up containing "normative" =
references to:
>   - draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases
>   - draft-bertrand-cdni-experiements
>   - draft-jenkins-cdni-names
>   - RFC2119
>=20
> After reading through the text of the Problem Statement again, I am =
not convinced that the Problem Statement references any of those =
documents normatively as the 3 CDNI related drafts are referenced in a =
context where they are for further information and the Problem Statement =
does not make use of any of the capitalised terms defined in RFC2119.
>=20
> Therefore, unless anyone objects I will move the references for the =
three CDNI related drafts to the "Informative References" section and =
remove the reference for RFC2119.
> =20
> I agree we don't want normative ref to the other cdni drafts as the =
problem statement is setting the stage for the other documents.
> =20
> Thanks
> =20
> Francois
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Thanks
> Ben
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> =20
> <image001.jpg>
>=20
> Francois Le Faucheur
> Distinguished Engineer
> Corporate Development
> flefauch@cisco.com
> Phone: +33 49 723 2619
> Mobile: +33 6 19 98 50 90
>=20
>=20
> Cisco Systems France
> Greenside
> 400 Ave de Roumanille
> 06410 Sophia Antipolis
> France
> Cisco.com
>=20
> =20
>=20
> <image002.gif>
>  Think before you print.
>=20
> This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the =
sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution or =
disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended =
recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), please contact =
the sender by reply email and delete all copies of this message.
>=20
> Cisco Systems France, Soci=E9t=E9 =E0 responsabiit=E9 limit=E9e, Rue =
Camille Desmoulins =96 Imm Atlantis Zac Forum Seine Ilot 7 92130 Issy =
les Moulineaux, Au capital de 91.470 =80, 349 166 561 RCS Nanterre, =
Directeur de la publication: Jean-Luc Michel Givone.
>=20
> For corporate legal information go to:
> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
>=20
> =20


From internet-drafts@ietf.org  Mon Oct 31 07:20:16 2011
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks Interconnec=
tion Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Content Distribution Network Interconnection (CDNI) Prob=
lem Statement
	Author(s)       : Ben Niven-Jenkins
                          Francois Le Faucheur
                          Nabil Bitar
	Filename        : draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.txt
	Pages           : 35
	Date            : 2011-10-31

   Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) provide numerous benefits: reduced
   delivery cost for cacheable content, improved quality of experience
   for End Users and increased robustness of delivery.  For these
   reasons they are frequently used for large-scale content delivery.
   As a result, existing CDN providers are scaling up their
   infrastructure and many Network Service Providers (NSPs) are
   deploying their own CDNs.  It is generally desirable that a given
   content item can be delivered to an End User regardless of that End
   User&#39;s location or attachment network.  This creates a requirement
   for interconnecting standalone CDNs so they can interoperate as an
   open content delivery infrastructure for the end-to-end delivery of
   content from Content Service Providers (CSPs) to End Users.  However,
   no standards or open specifications currently exist to facilitate
   such CDN interconnection.

   The goal of this document is to outline the problem area of CDN
   interconnection (CDNI) for the IETF.


A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.txt

From ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk  Mon Oct 31 07:24:33 2011
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Colleagues,

This version incorporates the proposals/comments made to the mailing =
list as well as a few other editorial changes/fixes.

You can see a diff against the previous version here:
=
http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.=
txt

Ben

On 31 Oct 2011, at 14:20, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks =
Interconnection Working Group of the IETF.
>=20
> 	Title           : Content Distribution Network Interconnection =
(CDNI) Problem Statement
> 	Author(s)       : Ben Niven-Jenkins
>                          Francois Le Faucheur
>                          Nabil Bitar
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.txt
> 	Pages           : 35
> 	Date            : 2011-10-31
>=20
>   Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) provide numerous benefits: reduced
>   delivery cost for cacheable content, improved quality of experience
>   for End Users and increased robustness of delivery.  For these
>   reasons they are frequently used for large-scale content delivery.
>   As a result, existing CDN providers are scaling up their
>   infrastructure and many Network Service Providers (NSPs) are
>   deploying their own CDNs.  It is generally desirable that a given
>   content item can be delivered to an End User regardless of that End
>   User&#39;s location or attachment network.  This creates a =
requirement
>   for interconnecting standalone CDNs so they can interoperate as an
>   open content delivery infrastructure for the end-to-end delivery of
>   content from Content Service Providers (CSPs) to End Users.  =
However,
>   no standards or open specifications currently exist to facilitate
>   such CDN interconnection.
>=20
>   The goal of this document is to outline the problem area of CDN
>   interconnection (CDNI) for the IETF.
>=20
>=20
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.t=
xt
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at:
> =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-cdni-problem-statement-01.tx=
t
> _______________________________________________
> CDNi mailing list
> CDNi@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni


From alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com  Mon Oct 31 09:03:57 2011
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Hi Theodore

I do tend to agree with your point, though i would like one Use Case docume=
nt as the baseline for which the Framework adn Metadata etc use to be built=
 around. I do see the merit in taking on work that should be fullfilled wit=
hin a given time limit and im all for that as long as we ensure all use cas=
es are captured and not ignored. Im not too picky on where it should be don=
e (current use case or another doc).

Alan

________________________________
From: Theodore Zahariadis [mailto:zahariad@synelixis.com]
Sent: October-30-11 7:29 AM
To: Alan Kavanagh; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; 'ZhouZhipeng'
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Dear all,

I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to ensur=
e realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced use cases=
 that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have submitted un=
der the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.

Best Regards,
Theodore


From: Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de Jong
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed t=
oday and ones planed are captured in the use cases document?

Alan

________________________________
From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: October-26-11 5:02 PM
To: Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is ou=
t of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

Kent

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mar=
k de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Hi Alan,

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on ad=
aptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already=
 not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so =
I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first spe=
cs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us kee=
p the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com<mailto:mark@jet-stream.com>
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
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- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK
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- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com<http://www.streamzillacdn.com>
- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com<http://www.jet-stream.com>

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are goi=
ng to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there i=
s some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a=
 fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-=
I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization betwee=
n CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers=
 particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Hello Ben,
The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user onl=
y desires to get his selected content.
But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user=
.
The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN =
to deliver to user.
While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transfo=
rm to the format as the user select.

Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additiona=
l services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our o=
bjective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on wh=
at is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an En=
d User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 mon=
ths).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order =
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via mult=
iple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation)=
.

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand th=
e scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us =
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP we=
bsite.
So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your ass=
ert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the disc=
ussion).

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever rais=
ed an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media=
 transformation and multi-screen service.
Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core fu=
nctionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take de=
ep look.

I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, nam=
ely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control pl=
us content acquisition and content delivery.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related servic=
e. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their re=
quirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnec=
tion, the user only care successful interconnection while not care how the =
voice is transformed in process.

Besides, I like raise a case:
Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media format=
s.
One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in F=
rance.
So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).
If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format
of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-=
Y while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.
Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the c=
ost of CDN-X is much lower.
For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in s=
olution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation =
to output 10 streams.

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the p=
rice from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select on=
e CDN provider with the lower price.
If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is no=
t a core functionality.

What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN ma=
y wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content del=
ivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a=
 CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal workin=
gs of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core=
 function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs a=
nd therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that d=
o address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not thi=
nk we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only =
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions withi=
n the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN provid=
ers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media types as=
 required by the market.

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,=
 the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection=
 may not be operated.

Br,
Zhipeng




-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com>; cdni@ietf.org<mail=
to:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Ben and Philip,
I like to respond your concern in this one email:

Ben,
I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.
As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that=
 the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.
While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.
What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type", e=
tc. These features are all the core feature for a service.
If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the i=
ssues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am no=
t sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it s=
upport different medias.
By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to=
 a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to=
 G.711.
For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been transferr=
ed, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two systems, right.
I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this c=
ase above.

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks be=
ing interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the ne=
gotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the =
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. =
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what representat=
ions the User/Client decides to request.

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN=
 delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers o=
ne media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple =
media types".

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function requi=
red to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that delive=
ry).

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of=
 the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpr=
etation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter)=
 because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start=
 trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs=
 support today as that will just delay us getting usable specifications int=
o the market in a timely fashion IMO.

Ben

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM
and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed=
 to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted =
by the content owner.
Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the informat=
ion related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint) should be=
 protected also.
So, trust is not a problem for the media.

Philip,
Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but=
 I do not know why it is not for Use case.
I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may s=
ave investment if the system may support different services.
For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile se=
rvice and another system for the FBB service.
But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may suppor=
t different service systems.

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to impl=
ement this is rather simple .
At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in f=
uture work. So I do really feel you may accept it.
Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.
Thanks.
Zhipeng



-----Original Message-----
From: philip.eardley@bt.com<mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com> [mailto:philip.ea=
rdley@bt.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM
To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk<mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>; ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc t=
han for the Use cases draft.

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope =
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signa=
l about this.

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we=
 should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't kno=
w, did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios=
 as well?

Scott,
Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content adapta=
tion (HD/SD) is out of scope.
- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?
- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?
But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do
with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than
metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the
discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is
rather out of scope(?)

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is tra=
nsitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN tr=
usts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However,=
 i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say =
that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

Best wishes
phil


Philip Eardley
Research and Technology Strategy

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England no: 1800000


-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:cdni-boun=
ces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Ben Niven-Jenkins
Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Colleagues,

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content Adapt=
ation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it to a=
nother format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which ty=
pically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge o=
f what that content actually is.

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is =
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery =
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected con=
tent not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which v=
ersion/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to =
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.=
 by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior t=
o the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

Ben

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on =
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.
If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with di=
fferent identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific device=
s," has listed the case of content adaptation.
In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some=
 email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).
I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to =
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN se=
rvice and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.
Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or =
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the =
use case draft.

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.
Thanks.
Zhipeng






-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org<mailto:cdni@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users
This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension
yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is
used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case
needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address
the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing
access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different
region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to
User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are
allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're
talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content
or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific
content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict
the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is
HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if
such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery
methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own
restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while
allowing the distribution of SD content.

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of
encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not
DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to
offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense
if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber
rights/authorizations apply.

Section 10 Security Considerations

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I
think we can describe this in four contexts:

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract
arrangement for distribution)
b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust
relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The
relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to
download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the
User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the
content)

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The
user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of
the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the
authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is
initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use
URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL
appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct
methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are
interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content
delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is dete=
rmined by the respective CDN's.

Scott

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<BODY lang=3DEL=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-brea=
k: after-white-space"=20
vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D443185815-31102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hi Theodore</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D443185815-31102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D443185815-31102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I do tend to agree with your point, though i would=
 like one=20
Use Case document as the baseline for which the Framework adn Metadata etc =
use=20
to be built around. I do see the merit in taking on work that should be=20
fullfilled within a given time limit and im all for that as long as we ensu=
re=20
all use cases are captured and not ignored. Im not too picky on where it sh=
ould=20
be done (current use case or another doc).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D443185815-31102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D443185815-31102011><FONT face=3DA=
rial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Alan</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Theodore Zahariadis=20
[mailto:zahariad@synelixis.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> October-30-11 7:29=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> Alan Kavanagh; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de=20
Jong'<BR><B>Cc:</B> cdni@ietf.org; 'ZhouZhipeng'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CD=
Ni]=20
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Dear=20
all,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">I=20
think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to ensure=
=20
realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced use cases t=
hat=20
the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have submitted under th=
e=20
cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Best=20
Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Theodore<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df=
 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium non=
e; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Alan Kavanag=
h=20
[mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 27, =
2011=20
12:04 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de Jong<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">S=
o are=20
we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use cases a=
t the=20
very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed today and ones=
=20
planed are captured in the use cases document? </SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">A=
lan</SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><SPAN la=
ng=3DEN-US>
<HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=
 Kent=20
Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> October-26-11 5:0=
2=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh<BR><B>Cc:</B> cdni@ietf.org;=20
ZhouZhipeng<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">I=20
also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is out =
of=20
scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG already.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'">Kent<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-seri=
f'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df=
 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium non=
e; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN><=
/B><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=
=20
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ma=
rk de=20
Jong<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Alan=
=20
Kavanagh<BR><B>Cc:</B> cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [C=
DNi]=20
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></D=
IV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Hi Alan,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>As Ben stated the overall discussio=
n right=20
now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensu=
s on=20
the delivery aspect already not to mention your requirement from content=20
adaptation added to that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the deli=
very=20
aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I can imagine this could be a discussion l=
ater=20
on but please let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is=
 of=20
benefit of everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible.=20
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">Met=20
vriendelijke groet,</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">Kind=20
regards,</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'"><BR><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>International Business Developer</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>Jet-Stream BV</SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</A></SPAN><BR><SPAN=
=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>Office: +31 (0)50 5261820</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span>Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DE=
N-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-=20
Event:</SPAN></B></SPAN><SPAN class=3Dapple-converted-space><SPAN lang=3DEN=
-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">Meet=20
us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=
=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-=20
Event:</SPAN></B></SPAN><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;Meet=20
us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-=20
Event:</SPAN></B></SPAN><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;Meet=20
us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=
=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-converted-space><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
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class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;Pre-request=20
your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have it, check <A=20
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">www.jet-stream.com</A></SPAN></SPAN><SPA=
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lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-&nbsp;<B>News:&nbsp;</B>Check&nbsp;<A=20
href=3D"http://www.jet-stream.com">http://www.jet-stream.com</A> to downloa=
d our=20
'Six Trends in CDNs' brochure</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-se=
rif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3Dapple-style-span><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">-</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-converted-space><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif=
'">&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3Dapple-style-span><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
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rif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV=
></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan K=
avanagh=20
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Ben<B=
R><BR>Im=20
assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going =
to=20
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<BR><BR>I sympathise with w=
hat=20
you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some work to be done,=
 but=20
I still feel that content adaptation is to me a fundamental requirement to =
what=20
collectively we should address in the CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that co=
ntent=20
adaptation is an optimization between CDN's but it's a very important one t=
hat I=20
know Network Service Providers particularly=20
require.<BR><BR>Alan<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<BR>Sent:=20
October-12-11 1:13 PM<BR>To: ZhouZhipeng<BR>Cc: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D =
Action:=20
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<BR><BR>Zhipeng,<BR><BR>On 12 Oct 2011, at=
=20
10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Hello Ben,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>The UE may select the content for=
mat on=20
  the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his selected=20
  content.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>But how the content is transferre=
d to the=20
  client is not worried by the user.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>The CP may create a special forma=
t as=20
  required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to=20
user.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>While CP may give a HD format con=
tent to=20
  uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the user=20
  select.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR>L=
ots of=20
things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional servic=
es on=20
top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our objective (base=
d on=20
my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on what is necessary to=
=20
interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an End User that is targ=
eted=20
and deployable within a short time frame (18-24 months).<BR><BR>Content=20
transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order to achie=
ve=20
that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs=20
without needing or requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).<BR><BR>I=
n my=20
opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scop=
e of=20
our work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our=
 core=20
objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>In this case, it is nothing related=
 to how=20
the user select formats on CP website.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>So, it is the CP and user to deci=
de the=20
  content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you take =
that=20
  assert as your base for the discussion).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOT=
E>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>As for "the core CDN functionalit=
y offered=20
  by CDNs today", I have ever raised an email before that your company's we=
bpage=20
  has claimed supporting media transformation and multi-screen=20
  service.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Perhaps, I like asking you list s=
ome=20
  features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing main stre=
am=20
  CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep look.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR>I=
 think the=20
core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request=
=20
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content=20
acquisition and content delivery.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I guess many people have the=20
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only care=
=20
whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not care the=
=20
internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user only care=20
successful interconnection while not care how the voice is transformed in=20
process.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Besides, I like raise a=20
  case:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Given currently BBC recruits CDN =
providers=20
  that may support 10 media formats.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>One candidate is your company, an=
other is=20
  CDN-X. The users are located in France.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>So both your company and CDN-X sh=
ould=20
  connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>If your company's solution is to =
send 10=20
  streams of different format<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>of one content to CDN-Y; While CD=
N-X's=20
  solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct some=20
  adaptation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Comparing these two solutions, fo=
r your=20
  company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much=20
  lower.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it shou=
ld=20
  receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive =
1=20
  stream but need to take transformation to output 10=20
  streams.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Which solution is more competitiv=
e. it is=20
  Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both your compa=
ny=20
  and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the lower=20
  price.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>If a CDN provider may not get the=
 contract=20
  from CP, how it may say it is not a core=20
functionality.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><BR>W=
hat you are=20
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to=20
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery betw=
een=20
interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a CDN could=20
implement to differentiate their service but the internal workings of an=20
individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<BR><BR>So to repeat my posi=
tion=20
for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core function required to ena=
ble=20
content delivery between interconnected CDNs and therefore given the worklo=
ad we=20
already have to specify solutions that do address the core functionality=20
required to interconnect CDNs I do not think we should be trying to add mor=
e=20
work into that workload as it will only distract us from achieving our goal=
 of=20
producing deployable solutions within the timeframe we are being told by=20
operators they needs solutions within.<BR><BR>Ben<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN>=
</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>So, if we all realize that currentl=
y the=20
media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in the existing ecosys=
tem=20
and support the media types as required by the market.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it=
 just=20
  when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at once be=
=20
  solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be=20
  operated.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Br,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>-----Original=20
  Message-----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins=20
  [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011=
 12:19=20
  AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>To:=20
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=20
  draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhi=
peng=20
  wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Ben and=20
  Philip,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I like to respond your concern =
in this=20
    one email:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Ben,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I feel what we are now discussi=
ng is=20
    what is the "core" function of=20
CDN.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>As you say, CDN is used to deli=
ver=20
    content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the=
 core=20
    requirement for CDN system.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>While CDN is used to provide th=
e content=20
    delivery service.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>What means service. It should i=
nclude=20
    "time" "location" and "media type", etc. These features are all the cor=
e=20
    feature for a service.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>If we only concern "delivering =
one data=20
    block", I am not sure whether the issues such as "logging" "geographic=
=20
    constraint" are the core of CDN.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>For "without explicit knowledge=
 of what=20
    that content actually is ", I am not sure whether the wording is accura=
te=20
    since generally a CDN may claim it support different=20
    medias.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>By this opportunity, I like to =
share a=20
    use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice stream=
=20
    should be transformed from GSM voice to=20
  G.711.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>For the user, he does not need =
to know=20
    what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done some =
work=20
    to interconnect two systems,=20
right.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I like to know whether you may =
accept=20
    that my use case is similar to this case=20
  above.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I don't think your use case is si=
milar to=20
  the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN networks. In =
the=20
  case of content delivery the negotiation is done between the User/Client =
and=20
  the Content Provider and the CDN is just used to execute/perform the deli=
very=20
  that has been negotiated. The CDN is not involved in the decision making =
of=20
  what representations the Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Cl=
ient=20
  or in what representations the User/Client decides to=20
  request.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>As for you said selecting media=
 by the=20
    "portal", you may see the way " uCDN delivers multiple media streams to=
=20
    dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN=
=20
    takes some adaptation to support multiple media=20
  types".<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Now what you're talking about is =
an=20
  optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the conten=
t=20
  (and report, bill, etc. for that delivery).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>My position is that we should foc=
us on how=20
  to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality offered by CD=
Ns=20
  today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working g=
roup=20
  as expressed in its charter) because doing so is a significant piece of w=
ork=20
  in itself. Let's not start trying to add in additional functionality beyo=
nd=20
  what the majority of CDNs support today as that will just delay us gettin=
g=20
  usable specifications into the market in a timely fashion=20
  IMO.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>A good question is "security" s=
ince I=20
    have done six years on the DRM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>and like to promote the DRM all=
 around=20
    the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally you may=
 know=20
    all the systems should be granted by the content=20
  owner.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Here I also like to clarify tha=
t not=20
    only the media itself but the information related to service itself (su=
ch as=20
    the geographic constraint) should be protected=20
  also.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>So, trust is not a problem for =
the=20
    media.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Philip,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Thank you that you feel Content=
 Adaption=20
    is an issue for "Requirements" but I do not know why it is not for Use=
=20
    case.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I like to clarify to U that it =
is=20
    important for you operator since it may save investment if the system m=
ay=20
    support different services.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>For us vendor, we are happy ope=
rator may=20
    install a system for the mobile service and another system for the FBB=
=20
    service.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>But the reality is all operator=
s ask us=20
    to provide a system that may support different service=20
    systems.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I reme=
mber I=20
    have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple=20
    .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>At least the Use case and Requi=
rement=20
    are informational to be referred in future work. So I do really feel yo=
u may=20
    accept it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Of course I like to respond you=
r more=20
    concern and comments.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>-----Original=20
    Message-----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</A>=20
    [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22=20
    PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>To: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</A>;=20
    ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
=20
    draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Ben, Zhipeng,=20
  all,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I think that Content Adaptation=
 is more=20
    an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases=20
    draft.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>The key question is whether we =
want the=20
    CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD=20
    conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about=20
    this.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I think that coping with this s=
cenario=20
    is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it in the=20
    initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide whether =
the=20
    Use cases doc is restricted to "initial" scenarios, or whether it's=20
    all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios as=20
    well?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Scott,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Reading some of your examples, =
they seem=20
    to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of=20
    scope.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>- a dCDN might for some reason =
be=20
    unwilling to distribute HD?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>- a CSP might want to make sure=
 the dCDN=20
    can use HLS encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>But these sorts of examples see=
m to be=20
    static policy things (to do<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>with the capabilities &amp; pre=
ferences=20
    of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather=20
than<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>metadata associated with a part=
icular=20
    piece of content. In the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>discussion so far, I think nego=
tiation=20
    about static policy stuff is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>rather out of=20
    scope(?)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>On security considerations, an=
=20
    interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it nee=
d be=20
    - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean that =
the=20
    CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can get=20
    arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only ha=
ndle=20
    cases where the trust is=20
transitive.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Best=20
  wishes<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>phil<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Philip=20
  Eardley<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Research and Technology=20
    Strategy<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>This email contains BT informat=
ion,=20
    which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the=20
    individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipie=
nt,=20
    note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this information i=
s=20
    prohibited. If you've received this email in error, please let me know=
=20
    immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email=
=20
    system, and may record your=20
emails.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>British Telecommunications=20
    plc<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Registered office: 81 Newgate S=
treet=20
    London EC1A 7AJ Registered in<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>England no:=20
  1800000<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>-----Original=20
    Message-----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</A>=20
    [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
Behalf<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Of Ben=20
    Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Sent: 10 October 2011=20
    12:04<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>To:=20
  ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action:=
=20
    draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>IMO Section 5.1.3 should be rem=
oved from=20
    the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item =
in=20
    one format and transforming it to another format or representation) is =
not a=20
    "core" function of a CDN which typically delivers the content that is=20
    requested without explicit knowledge of what that content actually=20
    is.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Let's not forget that in buildi=
ng an end=20
    to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the compone=
nt=20
    tasked with executing the delivery of a specific representation=20
    (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not the component ta=
sked=20
    with deciding (or applying policy) on which version/copy/representation=
 of=20
    content should be delivered.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>The decision as to which=20
    version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a giv=
en=20
    device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the "portal" whe=
re=20
    the user first makes their content selection prior to the CDN becoming=
=20
    involved in the delivery of the selected=20
  content).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZh=
ipeng=20
    wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Following Scott's comments on=
 section=20
      5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD is not=
=20
      exactly correct.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>If one movie has two formats =
of HD and=20
      SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM scope,=
 the=20
      basic unit is a content=20
copy.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Here the first bullet "a subs=
et of=20
      encodings deliverable to specific devices," has listed the case of co=
ntent=20
      adaptation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUO=
TE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>In last month, I have contact=
ed the=20
      Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant an=
d=20
      Philip (BT).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>I have shown BT with some inf=
ormation=20
      that I know in this case and area to explain the content flexibility =
is=20
      currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related negotiation=
 is=20
      needed in the CDN=20
  interconnection.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Meanwhile, I should also invi=
te you in=20
      this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I ho=
pe my=20
      use case may be incorporated in the use case=20
    draft.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>If you have any more question=
 or=20
      comments, pls share in this=20
  thread.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
LOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>-----Original=20
      Message-----<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>From: Scott Wainner=20
      [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2=
011 8:02=20
      AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>To: <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Actio=
n:=20
      draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Section 2.3 Nomadic=20
      Users<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>This description falls under =
the=20
      category of Geographic=20
  Extension<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>yet the third paragraph state=
s the=20
      case where a different device=20
  is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>used in the same CDN coverage=
 area.=20
      &nbsp;The intent of this use=20
  case<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>needs to be clarified. &nbsp;=
Perhaps=20
      the use case is trying to=20
  address<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>the scenario where a Nomadic =
User-A=20
      with an agreement=20
allowing<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>access to content from CSP-A =
via uCDN=20
      moves to a dCDN in a=20
different<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is all=
owed to=20
      distribute the content of CSP-A=20
  to<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>User-A; however, not other us=
ers in=20
      the region of the dCDN=20
are<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>allowed to retrieve the conte=
nt unless=20
      they too have such an=20
  agreement.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Section 5.1.3 Content Encodin=
g=20
      Restrictions Need to clarify if=20
  we're<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>talking about the restriction=
s on the=20
      delivery of specific=20
content<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>or the restrictions on the ab=
ility of=20
      a CDN to deliver=20
specific<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>content. &nbsp;I certainly un=
derstand=20
      the case where a CSP will=20
  restrict<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>the distribution of content t=
o a=20
      "managed path" if such content=20
  is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>HD while allowing the content=
=20
      distribution via an un-managed path=20
  if<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>such content is SD (same coul=
d apply=20
      to encryption methods,=20
delivery<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the =
contrary,=20
      the dCDN may have its=20
own<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>restrictions of blocking the=
=20
      distribution of HD content=20
  while<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>allowing the distribution of =
SD=20
      content.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>o first bullet makes sense if=
 the dCDN=20
      can perform a subset=20
of<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>encapsulations for a referenc=
e set of=20
      media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but=20
not<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>DASH) o second bullet makes s=
ense=20
      where the dCDN doesn't want=20
to<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>offer high bit-rate variants =
of the=20
      media o third bullet make=20
sense<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>if the policy addresses QoE b=
ut I=20
      don't think=20
subscriber<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>rights/authorizations=20
      apply.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Section 10 Security=20
      Considerations<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Aside from the security consi=
derations=20
      WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN,=20
I<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>think we can describe this in=
 four=20
      contexts:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>a. The relationship between t=
he CSP=20
      and the uCDN (the principle=20
  contract<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>arrangement for=20
      distribution)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQ=
UOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>b. The relationship between t=
he uCDN=20
      and dCDN (the transitive=20
trust<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>relationship that extends the=
 contract=20
      defined in (a) above) c.=20
The<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>relationship between the User=
 and dCDN=20
      (the recognition of right=20
to<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>download predicated on (b) ab=
ove) d.=20
      The relationship between=20
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>User and CSP (the contract au=
thorizing=20
      the user access to=20
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    lang=3DEN-US>content)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>The user is not interested in=
 the a-b=20
      nor the b-c relationship.=20
The<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>user is only interested in th=
e=20
      transparency and interoperability=20
  of<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>the security relationship bet=
ween d-b=20
      or d-c to the point that=20
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>authorization granted in d-a =
is viable=20
      when the delivery=20
is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>initiated via either d-b or d=
-c.=20
      &nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might=20
  use<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>URL appended tokens for authe=
ntication=20
      while dCDN might use=20
URL<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>appended hashes. &nbsp;The us=
er=20
      doesn't want to know about the=20
  distinct<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
    <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
      <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>methods, but transparency is =
only=20
      afforded if the methods=20
are<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
  <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
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From: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@synelixis.com>
To: "'Alan Kavanagh'" <alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com>, "'Kent Leung \(kleung\)'" <kleung@cisco.com>, "'Mark de Jong'" <mark@jet-stream.nl>
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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:38:40 +0200
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Cc: cdni@ietf.org, yannick.lelouedec@orange.com, 'ZhouZhipeng' <zhouzhipeng@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt
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Dear Alan,

 

I also fully agree with your point. As the timeframe is rather short I think
that both the Framework and the Metadata should be built around one
document.

 

However, the draft we have sent is the result of many discussions, PhC and
research done by a large number of companies and participants from 6
project.

So, I believe it is worth a discussion. Unfortunately, I'll not be able to
participate at this IETF meeting, but our colleague Emile Stephan (Orange)
will and he may present the draft.

Of course there are two options:

a)      To try to merge the two documents towards a joined WG working
document, which could be also the base for the Framework and the Metadata
specification or

b)      Keep the one that you are already working on and just extend/update
this one as forward looking one.

In either case, I will be very happy to help and contribute.

 

Best Regards,

Theodore

 

 

 

 

From: Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 6:03 PM
To: zahariad@synelixis.com; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; 'ZhouZhipeng'
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Hi Theodore

 

I do tend to agree with your point, though i would like one Use Case
document as the baseline for which the Framework adn Metadata etc use to be
built around. I do see the merit in taking on work that should be fullfilled
within a given time limit and im all for that as long as we ensure all use
cases are captured and not ignored. Im not too picky on where it should be
done (current use case or another doc).

 

Alan

 

  _____  

From: Theodore Zahariadis [mailto:zahariad@synelixis.com] 
Sent: October-30-11 7:29 AM
To: Alan Kavanagh; 'Kent Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; 'ZhouZhipeng'
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Dear all,

 

I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to ensure
realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced use cases
that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have submitted
under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.

 

Best Regards,

Theodore

 

 

From: Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM
To: Kent Leung (kleung); Mark de Jong
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

So are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both deployed
today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document? 

 

Alan

 

  _____  

From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] 
Sent: October-26-11 5:02 PM
To: Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that is out
of scope.  We have enough to do in the WG already.

 

Kent

 

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark
de Jong
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 PM
To: Alan Kavanagh
Cc: cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Hi Alan,

 

As Ben stated the overall discussion right now is about delivery, not on
adaptation. It is hard enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect
already not to mention your requirement from content adaptation added to
that, so I agree with Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the
first specs. I can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please
let us keep the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of
everyone to get the first specs as fast as possible. Thanks.

 

Met vriendelijke groet,

Kind regards,

Mark de Jong
International Business Developer
Jet-Stream BV

E-mail: mark@jet-stream.com
Office: +31 (0)50 5261820
Mobile: +31 (0)6 81108263
Fax: +31 (0)50 5264214

 

- Event: Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at Online Video Strategies, 19 October, London, UK

- Event: Meet us at CDN World Summit, 25-28 October, London, UK

- News: Pre-request your Technology Whitepaper now and be the first to have
it, check www.jet-stream.com

- News: Check http://www.jet-stream.com to download our 'Six Trends in CDNs'
brochure

 

- Blog: www.jet-stream.com/blog/

- VideoExchange: www.vdo-x.net

- Streamzilla: www.streamzillacdn.com

- Corporate: www.jet-stream.com

 

On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan Kavanagh wrote:

 

Ben

Im assuming then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are
going to have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?

I sympathise with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is
some work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the CDN-I
WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization between
CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service Providers
particularly require.

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben
Niven-Jenkins
Sent: October-12-11 1:13 PM
To: ZhouZhipeng
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

Zhipeng,

On 12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

Hello Ben,

The UE may select the content format on the CP web. After that the user only
desires to get his selected content.

But how the content is transferred to the client is not worried by the user.

The CP may create a special format as required by the user and ask the CDN
to deliver to user.

While CP may give a HD format content to uCDN and the dCDN may then
transform to the format as the user select.


Lots of things may be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional
services on top of the "core" service of content delivery. However, our
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus on
what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP to an
End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame (18-24
months).

Content transformation/adaptation is not an essential requirement in order
to achieve that aim (we can deliver content from CSPs to End Users via
multiple CDNs without needing or requiring any CDN supports content
adaptation).

In my opinion we have enough work to do already without trying to expand the
scope of our work to include additional requirements that do not help us
address our core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.

In this case, it is nothing related to how the user select formats on CP
website.

So, it is the CP and user to decide the content format not the CDN(your
assert is not correct and seems you take that assert as your base for the
discussion).

 

As for "the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today", I have ever
raised an email before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting
media transformation and multi-screen service.

Perhaps, I like asking you list some features that you feel are the core
functionalities by existing main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take
deep look.


I think the core functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces,
namely: Request Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control
plus content acquisition and content delivery.

I guess many people have the experience/knowledge of content related
service. The user and CP only care whether the CDN providers may satisfy
their requirement while not care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN
interconnection, the user only care successful interconnection while not
care how the voice is transformed in process.

 

Besides, I like raise a case:

Given currently BBC recruits CDN providers that may support 10 media
formats.

One candidate is your company, another is CDN-X. The users are located in
France.

So both your company and CDN-X should connect a France CDN provider(CDN-Y).

If your company's solution is to send 10 streams of different format

of one content to CDN-Y; While CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y
while CDN-Y may conduct some adaptation.

Comparing these two solutions, for your company and CDN-X, absolutely the
cost of CDN-X is much lower.

For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should receive/forward 10 streams ; while in
solution-2, it should only receive 1 stream but need to take transformation
to output 10 streams.

 

Which solution is more competitive. it is Solution 1, right. Remember the
price from BBC is same to both your company and CDN-X or BBC would select
one CDN provider with the lower price.

If a CDN provider may not get the contract from CP, how it may say it is not
a core functionality.


What you are describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may
wish to implement not a core functionality required to enable content
delivery between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that
a CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.

So to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs and
therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions that do
address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I do not think
we should be trying to add more work into that workload as it will only
distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable solutions within
the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs solutions within.

Ben

So, if we all realize that currently the media type is rich, the CDN
providers should survive in the existing ecosystem and support the media
types as required by the market.

 

Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it just when concerning the interconnection,
the transformation should at once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection
may not be operated.

 

Br,

Zhipeng

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:19 AM

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: philip.eardley@bt.com; cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Zhipeng,

 

On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

 

Ben and Philip,

I like to respond your concern in this one email:

 

Ben,

I feel what we are now discussing is what is the "core" function of CDN.

As you say, CDN is used to deliver content. That is absolutely correct that
the delivery capability is the core requirement for CDN system.

While CDN is used to provide the content delivery service.

What means service. It should include "time" "location" and "media type",
etc. These features are all the core feature for a service.

If we only concern "delivering one data block", I am not sure whether the
issues such as "logging" "geographic constraint" are the core of CDN.

 

For "without explicit knowledge of what that content actually is ", I am not
sure whether the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it
support different medias.

By this opportunity, I like to share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to
a PSTN telephone, the voice stream should be transformed from GSM voice to
G.711.

For the user, he does not need to know what type of data has been
transferred, but the operator has done some work to interconnect two
systems, right.

I like to know whether you may accept that my use case is similar to this
case above.

 

I don't think your use case is similar to the analogy of mobile networks
being interconnected to PSTN networks. In the case of content delivery the
negotiation is done between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the
CDN is just used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated.
The CDN is not involved in the decision making of what representations the
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what
representations the User/Client decides to request.

 

As for you said selecting media by the "portal", you may see the way " uCDN
delivers multiple media streams to dCDN" is not good than "uCDN delivers one
media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to support multiple
media types".

 

Now what you're talking about is an optimisation, not a core function
required to actually deliver the content (and report, bill, etc. for that
delivery).

 

My position is that we should focus on how to enable the interconnection of
the core CDN functionality offered by CDNs today (which is also my
interpretation of the scope of the CDNI working group as expressed in its
charter) because doing so is a significant piece of work in itself. Let's
not start trying to add in additional functionality beyond what the majority
of CDNs support today as that will just delay us getting usable
specifications into the market in a timely fashion IMO.

 

Ben

 

A good question is "security" since I have done six years on the DRM

and like to promote the DRM all around the world:) If the content is needed
to be protected, generally you may know all the systems should be granted by
the content owner.

Here I also like to clarify that not only the media itself but the
information related to service itself (such as the geographic constraint)
should be protected also.

So, trust is not a problem for the media.

 

Philip,

Thank you that you feel Content Adaption is an issue for "Requirements" but
I do not know why it is not for Use case.

I like to clarify to U that it is important for you operator since it may
save investment if the system may support different services.

For us vendor, we are happy operator may install a system for the mobile
service and another system for the FBB service.

But the reality is all operators ask us to provide a system that may support
different service systems.

 

Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember I have explained somewhere that to
implement this is rather simple .

At least the Use case and Requirement are informational to be referred in
future work. So I do really feel you may accept it.

Of course I like to respond your more concern and comments.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: philip.eardley@bt.com [mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:22 PM

To: ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk; ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Ben, Zhipeng, all,

 

I think that Content Adaptation is more an issue for the Requirements doc
than for the Use cases draft.

 

The key question is whether we want the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope
with a scenario where (say) HD/SD conversion is done in the dCDN & to signal
about this.

 

I think that coping with this scenario is a second order requirement, ie we
should not worry about it in the initial standards-track work. I don't know,
did we ever decide whether the Use cases doc is restricted to "initial"
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering "future" scenarios
as well?

 

Scott,

Reading some of your examples, they seem to be valid even if content
adaptation (HD/SD) is out of scope.

- a dCDN might for some reason be unwilling to distribute HD?

- a CSP might want to make sure the dCDN can use HLS encapsulation?

But these sorts of examples seem to be static policy things (to do

with the capabilities & preferences of the CDNs & CSP), rather than

metadata associated with a particular piece of content. In the

discussion so far, I think negotiation about static policy stuff is

rather out of scope(?)

 

On security considerations, an interesting question is whether trust is
transitive. Don't think it need be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN
trusts dCDN doesn't mean that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN.
However, i suspect this can get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is
to say that we will only handle cases where the trust is transitive.

 

Best wishes

phil

 

 

Philip Eardley

Research and Technology Strategy

 

This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential.
It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not
the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using
this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We
monitor our email system, and may record your emails.

British Telecommunications plc

Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in

England no: 1800000

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf

Of Ben Niven-Jenkins

Sent: 10 October 2011 12:04

To: ZhouZhipeng

Cc: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Colleagues,

 

IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed from the Use Cases draft. Content
Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content item in one format and transforming it
to another format or representation) is not a "core" function of a CDN which
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit knowledge
of what that content actually is.

 

Let's not forget that in building an end to end content service the CDN is
only one component and is the component tasked with executing the delivery
of a specific representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected
content not the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which
version/copy/representation of content should be delivered.

 

The decision as to which version/copy/representation to offer and allow to
be delivered to a given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g.
by the "portal" where the user first makes their content selection prior to
the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected content).

 

Ben

 

On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, ZhouZhipeng wrote:

 

Following Scott's comments on section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on
the use case of HD and SD is not exactly correct.

If one movie has two formats of HD and SD, then we have two content with
different identifier. In DRM scope, the basic unit is a content copy.

 

Here the first bullet "a subset of encodings deliverable to specific
devices," has listed the case of content adaptation.

In last month, I have contacted the Authors of this document and taken some
email exchanges with Grant and Philip (BT).

I have shown BT with some information that I know in this case and area to
explain the content flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN
service and related negotiation is needed in the CDN interconnection.

Meanwhile, I should also invite you in this group raising your comments or
questions on this case since I hope my use case may be incorporated in the
use case draft.

 

If you have any more question or comments, pls share in this thread.

Thanks.

Zhipeng

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Wainner [mailto:swainner@cisco.com]

Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:02 AM

To: cdni@ietf.org

Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt

 

Section 2.3 Nomadic Users

This description falls under the category of Geographic Extension

yet the third paragraph states the case where a different device is

used in the same CDN coverage area.  The intent of this use case

needs to be clarified.  Perhaps the use case is trying to address

the scenario where a Nomadic User-A with an agreement allowing

access to content from CSP-A via uCDN moves to a dCDN in a different

region.  The dCDN is allowed to distribute the content of CSP-A to

User-A; however, not other users in the region of the dCDN are

allowed to retrieve the content unless they too have such an agreement.

 

Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding Restrictions Need to clarify if we're

talking about the restrictions on the delivery of specific content

or the restrictions on the ability of a CDN to deliver specific

content.  I certainly understand the case where a CSP will restrict

the distribution of content to a "managed path" if such content is

HD while allowing the content distribution via an un-managed path if

such content is SD (same could apply to encryption methods, delivery

methods, etc.).  On the contrary, the dCDN may have its own

restrictions of blocking the distribution of HD content while

allowing the distribution of SD content.

 

o first bullet makes sense if the dCDN can perform a subset of

encapsulations for a reference set of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but not

DASH) o second bullet makes sense where the dCDN doesn't want to

offer high bit-rate variants of the media o third bullet make sense

if the policy addresses QoE but I don't think subscriber

rights/authorizations apply.

 

Section 10 Security Considerations

 

Aside from the security considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, I

think we can describe this in four contexts:

 

a. The relationship between the CSP and the uCDN (the principle contract

arrangement for distribution)

b. The relationship between the uCDN and dCDN (the transitive trust

relationship that extends the contract defined in (a) above) c. The

relationship between the User and dCDN (the recognition of right to

download predicated on (b) above) d. The relationship between the

User and CSP (the contract authorizing the user access to the

content)

 

The user is not interested in the a-b nor the b-c relationship. The

user is only interested in the transparency and interoperability of

the security relationship between d-b or d-c to the point that the

authorization granted in d-a is viable when the delivery is

initiated via either d-b or d-c.  As an example, the uCDN might use

URL appended tokens for authentication while dCDN might use URL

appended hashes.  The user doesn't want to know about the distinct

methods, but transparency is only afforded if the methods are

interoperable clearly defined when the delegation for content

delivery is executed.  Clearly, the choice of authentication method is
determined by the respective CDN's.

 

Scott

 

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 

_______________________________________________

CDNi mailing list

CDNi@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 


_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

 


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEL link=3Dblue =
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class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also fully agree with your point. As the timeframe is rather short =
I think that both the Framework and the Metadata should be built around =
one document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>However, the draft we have sent is the result of many discussions, =
PhC and research done by a large number of companies and participants =
from 6 project.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So, I believe it is worth a discussion. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ll not =
be able to participate at this IETF meeting, but our colleague Emile =
Stephan (Orange) will and he may present the =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Of course there are two options:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>a)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>To try to merge the two documents towards a joined WG working =
document, which could be also the base for the Framework and the =
Metadata specification or<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>b)<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times =
New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Keep the one that you are already working on and just extend/update =
this one as forward looking one.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In either case, I will be very happy to help and =
contribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Alan =
Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
October 31, 2011 6:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> zahariad@synelixis.com; 'Kent =
Leung (kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
'ZhouZhipeng'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Hi=
 Theodore</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>I =
do tend to agree with your point, though i would like one Use Case =
document as the baseline for which the Framework adn Metadata etc use to =
be built around. I do see the merit in taking on work that should be =
fullfilled within a given time limit and im all for that as long as we =
ensure all use cases are captured and not ignored. Im not too picky on =
where it should be done (current use case or another =
doc).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Al=
an</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Theodore =
Zahariadis [mailto:zahariad@synelixis.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
October-30-11 7:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh; 'Kent Leung =
(kleung)'; 'Mark de Jong'<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
'ZhouZhipeng'<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I think that a good approach would be to proceed in cdni-use cases to =
ensure realistic/short-term use cases and then proceed to the advanced =
use cases that the Future Media Networks (FMN) cluster of projects have =
submitted under the cdni-advanced-use-cases ID.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Alan Kavanagh [mailto:alan.kavanagh@ericsson.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> Kent Leung (kleung); =
Mark de Jong<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> =
Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>So=
 are we defining a limited set of use cases or should we ensure that use =
cases at the very least ensure that the realistic use cases both =
deployed today and ones planed are captured in the use cases document? =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Al=
an</span><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kent Leung =
(kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October-26-11 5:02 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Mark de Jong; Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> =
cdni@ietf.org; ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I also agree with Ben that content adaptation is an optimization that =
is out of scope.&nbsp; We have enough to do in the WG =
already.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Mark de Jong<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:21 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> Alan Kavanagh<br><b>Cc:</b> cdni@ietf.org; =
ZhouZhipeng<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi =
Alan,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As Ben stated the overall =
discussion right now is about delivery, not on adaptation. It is hard =
enough to get consensus on the delivery aspect already not to mention =
your requirement from content adaptation added to that, so I agree with =
Ben we should stick with the delivery aspect for the first specs.&nbsp;I =
can imagine this could be a discussion later on but please let us keep =
the scope of this be clean and transparent. It is of benefit of everyone =
to get the first specs as fast as possible. =
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><=
div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dapple-style-span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Met vriendelijke groet,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3Dapple-style-span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
Kind regards,</span></span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>=
<br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Mark de Jong</span><br><span =
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Developer</span><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>Jet-Stream =
BV</span><br><br><span class=3Dapple-style-span>E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:mark@jet-stream.com">mark@jet-stream.com</a></span><br><sp=
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Meet us at Streaming Media Europe, 17-18 October, London, =
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<a =
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pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
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</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 26, Oct,2011, at 8:33 PM, Alan =
Kavanagh wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben<br><br>Im assuming =
then based on your comments below are you suggesting we are going to =
have a number of versions of the CDN-I Metadata?<br><br>I sympathise =
with what you are pointing out below and do agree that there is some =
work to be done, but I still feel that content adaptation is to me a =
fundamental requirement to what collectively we should address in the =
CDN-I WG. I do agree with you that content adaptation is an optimization =
between CDN's but it's a very important one that I know Network Service =
Providers particularly require.<br><br>Alan<br><br>-----Original =
Message-----<br>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Niven-Jenkins<br>Sent: =
October-12-11 1:13 PM<br>To: ZhouZhipeng<br>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [CDNi] =
I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<br><br>Zhipeng,<br><br>On =
12 Oct 2011, at 10:22, ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hello =
Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The UE may select the content =
format on the CP web. After that the user only desires to get his =
selected content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But how the content is transferred =
to the client is not worried by the =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The CP may create a special format =
as required by the user and ask the CDN to deliver to =
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CP may give a HD format =
content to uCDN and the dCDN may then transform to the format as the =
user select.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>Lots of things may =
be possible to do and CDN providers offer many additional services on =
top of the &quot;core&quot; service of content delivery. However, our =
objective (based on my interpretation of the CDNI charter) is to focus =
on what is necessary to interconnect CDNs to deliver content from a CSP =
to an End User that is targeted and deployable within a short time frame =
(18-24 months).<br><br>Content transformation/adaptation is not an =
essential requirement in order to achieve that aim (we can deliver =
content from CSPs to End Users via multiple CDNs without needing or =
requiring any CDN supports content adaptation).<br><br>In my opinion we =
have enough work to do already without trying to expand the scope of our =
work to include additional requirements that do not help us address our =
core objectives as laid out in the CDNI charter.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In this case, it is nothing related =
to how the user select formats on CP =
website.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, it is the CP and user to decide =
the content format not the CDN(your assert is not correct and seems you =
take that assert as your base for the =
discussion).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for &quot;the core CDN =
functionality offered by CDNs today&quot;, I have ever raised an email =
before that your company's webpage has claimed supporting media =
transformation and multi-screen =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Perhaps, I like asking you list =
some features that you feel are the core functionalities by existing =
main stream CDNs. Thus we may compare and take deep =
look.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>I think the core =
functionality maps pretty well to the CDNI interfaces, namely: Request =
Routing, Metadata configuration, log production and control plus content =
acquisition and content delivery.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I guess many people have the =
experience/knowledge of content related service. The user and CP only =
care whether the CDN providers may satisfy their requirement while not =
care the internal process. Just as GSM/PSTN interconnection, the user =
only care successful interconnection while not care how the voice is =
transformed in process.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Besides, I like raise a =
case:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Given currently BBC recruits CDN =
providers that may support 10 media =
formats.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>One candidate is your company, =
another is CDN-X. The users are located in =
France.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So both your company and CDN-X =
should connect a France CDN =
provider(CDN-Y).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If your company's solution is to =
send 10 streams of different =
format<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>of one content to CDN-Y; While =
CDN-X's solution is to send 1 stream to CDN-Y while CDN-Y may conduct =
some adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Comparing these two solutions, for =
your company and CDN-X, absolutely the cost of CDN-X is much =
lower.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For CDN-Y, in solution-1, it should =
receive/forward 10 streams ; while in solution-2, it should only receive =
1 stream but need to take transformation to output 10 =
streams.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Which solution is more competitive. =
it is Solution 1, right. Remember the price from BBC is same to both =
your company and CDN-X or BBC would select one CDN provider with the =
lower price.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If a CDN provider may not get the =
contract from CP, how it may say it is not a core =
functionality.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=3DEN-US><br>What you are =
describing is a possible optimization that a particular CDN may wish to =
implement not a core functionality required to enable content delivery =
between interconnected CDNs. I can think of many optimizations that a =
CDN could implement to differentiate their service but the internal =
workings of an individual CDN are out of scope of our charter.<br><br>So =
to repeat my position for a final time: Content adaptation is not a core =
function required to enable content delivery between interconnected CDNs =
and therefore given the workload we already have to specify solutions =
that do address the core functionality required to interconnect CDNs I =
do not think we should be trying to add more work into that workload as =
it will only distract us from achieving our goal of producing deployable =
solutions within the timeframe we are being told by operators they needs =
solutions within.<br><br>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, if we all realize that =
currently the media type is rich, the CDN providers should survive in =
the existing ecosystem and support the media types as required by the =
market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Back to the case of GSM/G.711, it =
just when concerning the interconnection, the transformation should at =
once be solved. Otherwise the interconnection may not be =
operated.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Ben Niven-Jenkins =
[mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 =
12:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 11 Oct 2011, at 05:16, =
ZhouZhipeng wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben and =
Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to respond your concern in =
this one =
email:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I feel what we are now discussing =
is what is the &quot;core&quot; function of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As you say, CDN is used to deliver =
content. That is absolutely correct that the delivery capability is the =
core requirement for CDN =
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>While CDN is used to provide the =
content delivery =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>What means service. It should =
include &quot;time&quot; &quot;location&quot; and &quot;media =
type&quot;, etc. These features are all the core feature for a =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If we only concern &quot;delivering =
one data block&quot;, I am not sure whether the issues such as =
&quot;logging&quot; &quot;geographic constraint&quot; are the core of =
CDN.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For &quot;without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually is &quot;, I am not sure whether =
the wording is accurate since generally a CDN may claim it support =
different =
medias.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>By this opportunity, I like to =
share a use case: a call from a GSM phone to a PSTN telephone, the voice =
stream should be transformed from GSM voice to =
G.711.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For the user, he does not need to =
know what type of data has been transferred, but the operator has done =
some work to interconnect two systems, =
right.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to know whether you may =
accept that my use case is similar to this case =
above.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I don't think your use case is =
similar to the analogy of mobile networks being interconnected to PSTN =
networks. In the case of content delivery the negotiation is done =
between the User/Client and the Content Provider and the CDN is just =
used to execute/perform the delivery that has been negotiated. The CDN =
is not involved in the decision making of what representations the =
Content Provider decides to offer to the User/Client or in what =
representations the User/Client decides to =
request.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>As for you said selecting media by =
the &quot;portal&quot;, you may see the way &quot; uCDN delivers =
multiple media streams to dCDN&quot; is not good than &quot;uCDN =
delivers one media stream to dCDN and dCDN takes some adaptation to =
support multiple media =
types&quot;.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Now what you're talking about is an =
optimisation, not a core function required to actually deliver the =
content (and report, bill, etc. for that =
delivery).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>My position is that we should focus =
on how to enable the interconnection of the core CDN functionality =
offered by CDNs today (which is also my interpretation of the scope of =
the CDNI working group as expressed in its charter) because doing so is =
a significant piece of work in itself. Let's not start trying to add in =
additional functionality beyond what the majority of CDNs support today =
as that will just delay us getting usable specifications into the market =
in a timely fashion IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>A good question is =
&quot;security&quot; since I have done six years on the =
DRM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>and like to promote the DRM all =
around the world:) If the content is needed to be protected, generally =
you may know all the systems should be granted by the content =
owner.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here I also like to clarify that =
not only the media itself but the information related to service itself =
(such as the geographic constraint) should be protected =
also.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>So, trust is not a problem for the =
media.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Philip,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Thank you that you feel Content =
Adaption is an issue for &quot;Requirements&quot; but I do not know why =
it is not for Use =
case.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I like to clarify to U that it is =
important for you operator since it may save investment if the system =
may support different =
services.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>For us vendor, we are happy =
operator may install a system for the mobile service and another system =
for the FBB =
service.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But the reality is all operators =
ask us to provide a system that may support different service =
systems.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Frankly, Ben and Philip, I remember =
I have explained somewhere that to implement this is rather simple =
.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>At least the Use case and =
Requirement are informational to be referred in future work. So I do =
really feel you may accept =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of course I like to respond your =
more concern and =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com">philip.eardley@bt.com</a> =
[mailto:philip.eardley@bt.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockq=
uote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 =
11:22 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk">ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk</a>; =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: RE: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Ben, Zhipeng, =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that Content Adaptation is =
more an issue for the Requirements doc than for the Use cases =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The key question is whether we want =
the CDNI interfaces to be able to cope with a scenario where (say) HD/SD =
conversion is done in the dCDN &amp; to signal about =
this.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I think that coping with this =
scenario is a second order requirement, ie we should not worry about it =
in the initial standards-track work. I don't know, did we ever decide =
whether the Use cases doc is restricted to &quot;initial&quot; =
scenarios, or whether it's all-encompassing, ie covering =
&quot;future&quot; scenarios as =
well?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Reading some of your examples, they =
seem to be valid even if content adaptation (HD/SD) is out of =
scope.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a dCDN might for some reason be =
unwilling to distribute =
HD?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>- a CSP might want to make sure the =
dCDN can use HLS =
encapsulation?<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>But these sorts of examples seem to =
be static policy things (to =
do<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>with the capabilities &amp; =
preferences of the CDNs &amp; CSP), rather =
than<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>metadata associated with a =
particular piece of content. In =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>discussion so far, I think =
negotiation about static policy stuff =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rather out of =
scope(?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On security considerations, an =
interesting question is whether trust is transitive. Don't think it need =
be - just because CSP trusts uCDN, and uCDN trusts dCDN doesn't mean =
that the CSP automatically trusts the dCDN. However, i suspect this can =
get arbitrarily complex - so one possibility is to say that we will only =
handle cases where the trust is =
transitive.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
wishes<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>phil<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Philip =
Eardley<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Research and Technology =
Strategy<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This email contains BT information, =
which may be privileged or confidential. It's meant only for the =
individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended =
recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or using this =
information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error, =
please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We =
monitor our email system, and may record your =
emails.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>British Telecommunications =
plc<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Registered office: 81 Newgate =
Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered =
in<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>England no: =
1800000<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org">cdni-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On =
Behalf<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Of Ben =
Niven-Jenkins<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: 10 October 2011 =
12:04<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: =
ZhouZhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Cc: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>IMO Section 5.1.3 should be removed =
from the Use Cases draft. Content Adaptation (i.e. taking in a content =
item in one format and transforming it to another format or =
representation) is not a &quot;core&quot; function of a CDN which =
typically delivers the content that is requested without explicit =
knowledge of what that content actually =
is.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Let's not forget that in building =
an end to end content service the CDN is only one component and is the =
component tasked with executing the delivery of a specific =
representation (version/copy/format etc.) of the selected content not =
the component tasked with deciding (or applying policy) on which =
version/copy/representation of content should be =
delivered.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The decision as to which =
version/copy/representation to offer and allow to be delivered to a =
given device/user is implemented outside of the CDN (e.g. by the =
&quot;portal&quot; where the user first makes their content selection =
prior to the CDN becoming involved in the delivery of the selected =
content).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ben<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>On 8 Oct 2011, at 08:20, =
ZhouZhipeng =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Following Scott's comments on =
section 5.1.3, I feel Scott's description on the use case of HD and SD =
is not exactly =
correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If one movie has two formats of HD =
and SD, then we have two content with different identifier. In DRM =
scope, the basic unit is a content =
copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here the first bullet &quot;a =
subset of encodings deliverable to specific devices,&quot; has listed =
the case of content =
adaptation.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><=
blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>In last month, I have contacted the =
Authors of this document and taken some email exchanges with Grant and =
Philip =
(BT).<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>I have shown BT with some =
information that I know in this case and area to explain the content =
flexibility is currently a basic requirement for CDN service and related =
negotiation is needed in the CDN =
interconnection.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockqu=
ote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Meanwhile, I should also invite you =
in this group raising your comments or questions on this case since I =
hope my use case may be incorporated in the use case =
draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>If you have any more question or =
comments, pls share in this =
thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Zhipeng<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blo=
ckquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>-----Original =
Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>From: Scott Wainner =
[mailto:swainner@cisco.com]<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquot=
e></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 =
8:02 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>To: <a =
href=3D"mailto:cdni@ietf.org">cdni@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></bloc=
kquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 2.3 Nomadic =
Users<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>This description falls under the =
category of Geographic =
Extension<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>yet the third paragraph states the =
case where a different device =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>used in the same CDN coverage area. =
&nbsp;The intent of this use =
case<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>needs to be clarified. =
&nbsp;Perhaps the use case is trying to =
address<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the scenario where a Nomadic User-A =
with an agreement =
allowing<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>access to content from CSP-A via =
uCDN moves to a dCDN in a =
different<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>region. &nbsp;The dCDN is allowed =
to distribute the content of CSP-A =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User-A; however, not other users in =
the region of the dCDN =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowed to retrieve the content =
unless they too have such an =
agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 5.1.3 Content Encoding =
Restrictions Need to clarify if =
we're<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>talking about the restrictions on =
the delivery of specific =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>or the restrictions on the ability =
of a CDN to deliver =
specific<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>content. &nbsp;I certainly =
understand the case where a CSP will =
restrict<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the distribution of content to a =
&quot;managed path&quot; if such content =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>HD while allowing the content =
distribution via an un-managed path =
if<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>such content is SD (same could =
apply to encryption methods, =
delivery<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, etc.). &nbsp;On the =
contrary, the dCDN may have its =
own<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>restrictions of blocking the =
distribution of HD content =
while<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>allowing the distribution of SD =
content.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>o first bullet makes sense if the =
dCDN can perform a subset =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>encapsulations for a reference set =
of media (e.g. HLS, HSS, but =
not<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>DASH) o second bullet makes sense =
where the dCDN doesn't want =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>offer high bit-rate variants of the =
media o third bullet make =
sense<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>if the policy addresses QoE but I =
don't think =
subscriber<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><b=
lockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>rights/authorizations =
apply.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Section 10 Security =
Considerations<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquot=
e><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aside from the security =
considerations WITHIN the uCDN and dCDN, =
I<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote=
 style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>think we can describe this in four =
contexts:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bl=
ockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>a. The relationship between the CSP =
and the uCDN (the principle =
contract<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>arrangement for =
distribution)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote=
><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>b. The relationship between the =
uCDN and dCDN (the transitive =
trust<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockq=
uote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship that extends the =
contract defined in (a) above) c. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>relationship between the User and =
dCDN (the recognition of right =
to<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>download predicated on (b) above) =
d. The relationship between =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>User and CSP (the contract =
authorizing the user access to =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>content)<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bl=
ockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>The user is not interested in the =
a-b nor the b-c relationship. =
The<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>user is only interested in the =
transparency and interoperability =
of<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>the security relationship between =
d-b or d-c to the point that =
the<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>authorization granted in d-a is =
viable when the delivery =
is<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquot=
e style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>initiated via either d-b or d-c. =
&nbsp;As an example, the uCDN might =
use<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>URL appended tokens for =
authentication while dCDN might use =
URL<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>appended hashes. &nbsp;The user =
doesn't want to know about the =
distinct<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>methods, but transparency is only =
afforded if the methods =
are<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquo=
te style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>interoperable clearly defined when =
the delegation for =
content<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><bloc=
kquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>delivery is executed. =
&nbsp;Clearly, the choice of authentication method is determined by the =
respective =
CDN's.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Scott<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></block=
quote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></bloc=
kquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockqu=
ote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
</blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><block=
quote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>CDNi mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></bl=
ockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote>=
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><br>_______________________________________________<br>CDNi =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/cdni</a><br>____________________________________________=
___<br>CDNi mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:CDNi@ietf.org">CDNi@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/cdni<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0054_01CC97FC.54696D90--


From bdavie@cisco.com  Mon Oct 31 12:24:59 2011
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From: Bruce Davie <bdavie@cisco.com>
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I presented version -00 of this draft in Quebec City. Please post =
comments to the list.

Regards,
Bruce Davie


Begin forwarded message:

> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Date: October 31, 2011 3:23:01 PM EDT
> To: bsd@cisco.com
> Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com, bsd@cisco.com
> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt has been =
successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.
>=20
> Filename:	 draft-davie-cdni-framework
> Revision:	 01
> Title:		 Framework for CDN Interconnection
> Creation date:	 2011-10-31
> WG ID:		 Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 52
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network
>   Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework is to provide
>   an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the
>   relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
>   CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several
>   interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
>   metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from
>   another.  The intent of this document is to outline what each
>   interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces
>   and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed
>   specification to other documents.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I =
presented version -00 of this draft in Quebec City. Please post comments =
to the list.<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Bruce =
Davie</div><div><br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a><br><=
/span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;">October 31, 2011 3:23:01 PM EDT<br></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>To: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:bsd@cisco.com">bsd@cisco.com</a><br></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:lpeterson@verivue.com">lpeterson@verivue.com</a>, <a =
href=3D"mailto:bsd@cisco.com">bsd@cisco.com</a><br></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>New Version =
Notification for =
draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt</b><br></span></div><br><div>A new =
version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt has been successfully =
submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF =
repository.<br><br>Filename:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
draft-davie-cdni-framework<br>Revision:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> 01<br>Title:<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
Framework for CDN Interconnection<br>Creation date:<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> =
2011-10-31<br>WG ID:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span> Individual Submission<br>Number =
of pages: 52<br><br>Abstract:<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;This document presents a =
framework for Content Distribution Network<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;Interconnection (CDNI). &nbsp;The purpose of the framework =
is to provide<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;an overall picture of the problem space of =
CDNI and to describe the<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;relationships among the various =
components necessary to interconnect<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;CDNs. &nbsp;CDN =
Interconnection requires the specification of several<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request =
routing,<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;metadata exchange, and the acquisition of =
content by one CDN from<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;another. &nbsp;The intent of =
this document is to outline what each<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;interface needs to =
accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;and =
mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;specification to other documents.<br><br><br><br><br>The =
IETF Secretariat<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-77-331984470--

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From: <emile.stephan@orange.com>
To: <Richard_Woundy@cable.comcast.com>, <flefauch@cisco.com>, <cdni@ietf.org>
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Subject: [CDNi] Control and Metadata interfaces
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Hi

=20

in draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-00 we identify situations which =
require the support and the activation of RRi, Ca or Log features either =
on the fly or in batch. Their selection and their activation require =
information from the control interface (examples: Mi, RRi, Ca, Log =
server's addresses) and from the metadata interface (example: content =
distribution policies). We made some assumptions  on the bootstrapping =
and then considered that the elements of information of the control =
interface were present in the  metadata objects too (examples: =
purge_mode flag, CAi server for an specific option of a feature ...).  =20

=20

In fact there is a big overlapping between these 2 interfaces. Section =
4.5 of draft-davie-cdni-framework-00 and  section 5 of =
draft-caulfield-cdni-metadata-core-00 identify the same open issue.

=20

Hence I propose the following:=20

-          The control interface is split in 2 parts:=20

o   bootstrapping of the CDN interconnexion;

o   control of the contents distribution;

-          The control of the contents distribution and the Metadata =
interface share the same framework (datamodel parts, protocols...);

-          The framework document specifies precisely the bootstrapping =
operations and the framework;

=20

Regards

Emile

=20

=20

De : cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de =
Woundy, Richard
Envoy=E9 : vendredi 28 octobre 2011 15:07
=C0 : Francois Le Faucheur; cdni@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [CDNi] Content Adaptation

=20

I agree with Francois, both as co-chair and an individual. J

=20

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Francois Le Faucheur
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 5:49 AM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] Content Adaptation

=20

Folks,

Speaking as a co-chair.

I have been through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the =
poorly-titled "Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt" =
thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.

First, some messages might have given the impression that content =
adaptation was required for a CDNI solution to be able to deal with =
multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of =
restating the obvious, let's be very explicit that this is obviously not =
the case. A very simple/common way to support multiple types of =
terminal/resolution/sizes in one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment, is =
to have different contents/URIs for each profile.
So content adaptation is not _required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is =
a candidate optimisation to do some of the same things in a different =
way.

Second, some messages suggested that content adaptation was a very =
strong win (aka transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As =
Richard pointed out already, this ignores a number of considerations =
such as the cost associated with performing the actual content =
adaptation downstream. Anyways, I think content adaptation may be better =
seen as a trade-off that can indeed be positive in some environments, =
rather than an obvious huge win.

Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while the content =
maybe passed across CDNs multiple times (in different formats), it is =
worth noting that the smaller res/size/quality representations may =
actually amount to much smaller size/bandwidth than the highest =
res/size/quality, so it is not quite a multiplying factor.=20
Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may reduce further the =
inter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to  1 flow, the base CDNI =
solution allows a content to be transferred across CDNS 1-10 times total =
instead of once per user accessing the content (as would be the case if =
the uCDN pumps the same traffic to every users because it cannot =
interoperate with the dCDN) which can result in a gain factor of 10s, =
100s, 1000s,.....


I have the impression that the key arguments have now been exposed (some =
of them even repeatedly) through the long thread. So I would suggest to =
pause that discussion, unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into =
the discussion, and then we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on =
the list.

Thanks

Francois

PS: Please think of using specific Subject lines for the various threads =
and don't hesitate to branch off with a different "Subject" when an =
initial thread morphs into a different topic. This helps the discussion.

=20


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DFR link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>in draft-stephan-cdni-usecases-metadata-00 we identify situations =
which require the support and the activation of RRi, Ca or Log features =
either on the fly or in batch. Their selection and their activation =
require information from the control interface (examples: Mi, RRi, Ca, =
Log server&#8217;s addresses) and from the metadata interface (example: =
content distribution policies). We made some assumptions=A0 on the =
bootstrapping and then considered that the elements of information of =
the control interface were present in the =A0metadata objects too =
(examples: purge_mode flag, CAi server for an specific option of a =
feature &#8230;). =A0=A0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In fact there is a big overlapping between these 2 interfaces. =
Section 4.5 of draft-davie-cdni-framework-00 and =A0section 5 of =
draft-caulfield-cdni-metadata-core-00 identify the same open =
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hence I propose the following: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The control interface is split in 2 parts: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>bootstrapping of the CDN interconnexion;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#1F497D'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>control of the contents distribution;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The control of the contents distribution and the Metadata interface =
share the same framework (datamodel parts, =
protocols&#8230;);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if =
!supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The framework document specifies precisely the bootstrapping =
operations and the framework;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Emile<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De&nbsp;:</s=
pan></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>De la part =
de</b> Woundy, Richard<br><b>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</b> vendredi 28 octobre =
2011 15:07<br><b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> Francois Le Faucheur; =
cdni@ietf.org<br><b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: [CDNi] Content =
Adaptation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I agree with Francois, both as co-chair and an individual. =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Francois Le Faucheur<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 28, 2011 5:49 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [CDNi] Content =
Adaptation<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Folks,<br><br>Speaking as a co-chair.<br><br>I have been =
through the recent exchange on content adaptation (aka the poorly-titled =
&quot;Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-use-cases-00.txt&quot; =
thread) and wanted to share a few thoughts.<br><br>First, some messages =
might have given the impression that content adaptation was required for =
a CDNI solution to be able to deal with multiple types of =
terminal/resolution/sizes etc. So at the risk of restating the obvious, =
let's be very explicit that this is obviously not the case. A very =
simple/common way to support multiple types of terminal/resolution/sizes =
in one CDN, or in a multi-CDN environment, is to have different =
contents/URIs for each profile.<br>So content adaptation is not =
_required_ to be supported by CDNI, but is a candidate optimisation to =
do some of the same things in a different way.<br><br>Second, some =
messages suggested that content adaptation was a very strong win (aka =
transfer 1 flow instead of 10 flows across CDNs). As Richard pointed out =
already, this ignores a number of considerations such as the cost =
associated with performing the actual content adaptation downstream. =
Anyways, I think content adaptation may be better seen as a trade-off =
that can indeed be positive in some environments, rather than an obvious =
huge win.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Also, without the content adaptation optimization, while =
the content maybe passed across CDNs multiple times (in different =
formats), it is worth noting that the smaller res/size/quality =
representations may actually amount to much smaller size/bandwidth than =
the highest res/size/quality, so it is not quite a multiplying =
factor.&nbsp;<br>Lastly, while the content adaptation optimization may =
reduce further the inter-CDN transfer from 1-10 flows down to &nbsp;1 =
flow, the base CDNI solution allows a content to be transferred across =
CDNS 1-10 times total instead of once per user accessing the content (as =
would be the case if the uCDN pumps the same traffic to every users =
because it cannot interoperate with the dCDN)&nbsp;which can result in a =
gain factor of 10s, 100s, =
1000s,.....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><br>I have the impression that the =
key arguments have now been exposed (some of them even repeatedly) =
through the long thread. So I would suggest to pause that discussion, =
unless _new_ arguments need to be brought into the discussion, and then =
we can poll for consensus in Taipei and then on the =
list.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Francois<br><br>PS: Please think of using =
specific Subject lines for the various threads and don't hesitate to =
branch off with a different &quot;Subject&quot; when an initial thread =
morphs into a different topic. This helps the =
discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
div></body></html>
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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct 31 16:36:43 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:36:39 -0400
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ma-cdni-metadata-01.txt
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From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct 31 16:36:48 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:36:43 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
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Hi Ben,

  responses inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 8:44 AM
> To: Kevin J Ma
> Cc: cdni@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [CDNi] Some questions regarding draft-ma-cdni-metadata
>
> Kevin,
>
> On 18 Oct 2011, at 17:03, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> >> From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk]
> >> On 17 Oct 2011, at 19:26, Kevin J Ma wrote:
> >>> I attempted to create an extensible representation for metadata and a
> >>> complete protocol for manipulating metadata, though, not all users of
> >>> the interface will need all aspects.  Do you feel that the protocol i=
s
> >>> deficient for non-authoritative CDN use, or that authoritative CDNs d=
o
> >>> not need the metadata interface?
> >>
> >> I think that we should stick to the scope of work we have been
> chartered
> >> to address, in the case of CDNI Metadata that is an interface that
> "will
> >> allow the CDNs to exchange content distribution metadata of inter-CDN
> >> scope".
> >>
> >> If the interface we specify is also usable in other scenarios then
> that's
> >> great but I don't think we should be actively looking to design an
> >> interface that is usable across a multitude of scenarios that are not
> in
> >> scope of CDNI because it's a distraction and likely to defocus our
> >> efforts. Our charter is not to define a new CP->CDN provisioning
> interface
> >> (they already exist) so we shouldn't be burning cycles working on
> things
> >> that are out of charter.
> >
> > I personally do not see a difference between uCDN->dCDN and CP->uCDN.
> > If in supporting uCDN->dCDN you get CP->uCDN, I think that is a bonus.
> > I do not think we should ignore uCDN->dCDN just because it might be
> > useful to CPs.  Is the argument that a uCDN should never need to push
> > metadata to a dCDN and therefore we do not need uCDN->dCDN support?
>
> My argument is that CP->uCDN and uCDN->dCDN are different beasts and in
> supporting uCDN->dCDN you do not get a sufficient interface for CP->uCDN.
>
> We thought about this when writing draft-jenkins-cdni-metadata and we cam=
e
> to the conclusion that CP->uCDN is a provisioning interface whereas for
> CDNI no provisioning is required, the dCDN only needs how to execute the
> already-provisioned (in the uCDN) CDNI metadata.
>
> A multi-tenanted CP->uCDN provisioning interface requires a different
> feature set and a richer data model than a uCDN->dCDN interface that just
> needs to transfer already-provisioned CDNI metadata for a dCDN to execute
> it.
>
> For example, a multi-tentanted CP->uCDN provisioning interface needs to
> support features such as:
> - User & Role based access control and a user account hierarchy that
> allows different business entities to control different levels of that
> hierarchy.
> - Metadata access permissions as different users (at different levels in
> the account hierarchy) may not have read or read/write access to all type=
s
> of metadata record and because users at different levels in the account
> hierarchy have the requirement to add additional metadata
> properties/policies (e.g. a Reseller may want to always have their off-
> shore QA team added to any Delivery ACL to enable them to troubleshoot).
> - Service/Account templates to simply provisioning.
> etc.
>
> When it comes to executing the CDN metadata (i.e. what a surrogate needs
> to know to perform the actual content delivery) none of the above feature=
s
> really matter, the CDN metadata can be flattened into a simpler CDNI
> metadata data model that removes some of the complexities required in a
> multi-tenanted provisioning data model as knowledge of how the CDNI
> Metadata got into the system (and who is allowed to do what at which leve=
l
> of the account hierarchy) is not needed when all the Surrogate cares abou=
t
> is if and how it should delivery the actual content.
>
> So your assertion that a uCDN->dCDN interface automatically gives you a
> sufficient CP->uCDN interface does not IMO hold true.

Fair enough.  Is it fair then to say that: though a CP may require more
functionality than the uCDN, there is no reason why the CP cannot use
that subset of functionality provided to uCDNs if it fits a portion
(or all) of the CP needs?

> It doesn't matter whether the CDNI Metadata interface is push from uCDN t=
o
> dCDN or pull from dCDN to uCDN, what is required to build a sufficient CP=
-
> uCDN provisioning interface is much more than what is required purely for
> a sufficient CDNI Metadata interface. My opinion is we should concentrate
> on what we're chartered to do (which is a CDNI Metadata interface) and no=
t
> try and expand that scope to be much wider than it is currently.
>
> <snip>
>
> >>> My concern with defining all the semantics of metadata and designing =
a
> >>> protocol around that, is you typically end up with a less extensible
> >>> design.  I would not want to have to update the metadata interface rf=
c
> >>> just to support a new piece of metadata in the future.  I am not
> saying
> >>> that we should not define metadata, I just think it should be separat=
e
> >>> from the data model and the protocol, so I concentrated on those
> first.
> >>> I definitely feel that we should define a base set of metadata that
> all
> >>> CDNs should support.  I do not think the draft prevents that.
> >>
> >> We agree on the fact that the CDNI metadata protocol specification
> doesn't
> >> need to define all possible properties/semantics for all possible
> delivery
> >> protocols and that properties and semantics for different delivery
> >> protocols can be defined in separate documents.
> >>
> >> The CDNI metadata draft that Grant/David/I authored doesn't preclude
> >> semantics/properties being defined in other documents (and implies tha=
t
> is
> >> likely to be the case - see my response to Spencer just now). The base
> set
> >> of properties that are described in our draft could easily be broken
> out
> >> into a separate document if the consensus of the group is to do so. We
> >> included the base properties and interface specification in a single
> >> document so that readers could see how the interface could be
> constructed
> >> and applied using a set of common base semantics/properties for HTTP
> >> delivery supported by deployed CDNs today.
> >>
> >> So if we put aside the question of where to define the actual
> properties
> >> and their semantics we're left with the data model and
> interface/protocol
> >> itself. So let's compare and contrast some key aspects of flexibility
> >> between the different proposals.
> >>
> >> Cache-ability & Latency:
> >> With the CDNI Metadata model we've proposed we think we've managed to
> >> define a data model that is as simple as possible but no simpler. It
> has a
> >> minimum number of data objects to allow objects that are likely to to
> be
> >> large or reused to be broken out into separate resources to provide
> >> efficiency and at the same time objects that may well have different
> >> cache-ability lifetimes can be broken out into separate resources. The
> >> interface specification allows inlining so that all related objects fo=
r
> a
> >> Site can be included in a single request/response so we provide the
> >> ability to have a simple implementation but also the flexibility to
> >> optimise the implementation to balance object size and cache-ability
> >> against number of requests/re-validations required.
> >
> > The protocol in my draft also supports bulk retrieval, but if there is
> > a nuance of inlining that is missing, I could certainly look at it.
> > Though I did not address cacheability, I think it could be applied at
> > the bulk response level as you describe?
>
> My point was not that your proposal couldn't do bulk retrieval but that b=
y
> having a data model that is "too simple" rather than having achieving you=
r
> aim of a "more extensible" model/interface you actually have a
> model/interface that is less flexible and less extensible than ours.
>
> Your model essentially ignores the reality that there are different types
> of CDNI Metadata which are likely to have different "lifetimes" (TTLs),
> different levels of reusability across CDN services & CPs and will contai=
n
> varying amounts of data.
>
> To give just one example: Think about the situation I mentioned earlier o=
f
> a Reseller (or CDN provider) wanting to add their off-shore QA team to al=
l
> Delivery ACLs to enable them to perform QA/troubleshooting/etc. Your mode=
l
> provides no ability (that I can see) to avoid having to list all the QA I=
P
> addresses against every every Metadata record (which are defined per URI)
> in every Domain that will be interconnected. That's a hell of a lot of
> unnecessary duplication.

The inital draft did not include any specific metadata definitions,
however there is nothing that precludes rich semantic interpretation
of a given metadata value.  It could be thought of more as a layered
data model where from the protocol perspective the data is a simple
opaque string of bytes, but that string may have greater meaning when
taken in the context of the named metadata.

> >> By keeping your model basically flat you force an implementation to
> >> repeatedly have to transfer data that is common across a number of
> >> Hostnames/Domains (e.g. the definition of Locations) and you force the
> >> cache-ability for all data within a hostname/domain to be the same
> whether
> >> it is specific to a hostname/domain or common across multiple
> >> hostnames/domains. You therefore do not provide any ability for
> >> implementations to optimise based on their knowledge (or configured
> >> policies)  of the different types of data that combine to describe the
> >> CDNI Metadata for a Site/domain/hostname.
> >>
> >> Self-description:
> >> The links between objects in our model and the representations of the
> >> different objects in our model are self-describing through the use of
> >> relationships and media-types within the interface so a client can
> easily
> >> determine what data objects are being referenced and what data objects
> it
> >> is receiving and use the appropriate processing function to interpret
> >> their contents. It is easy to add new data objects to our model if
> >> required by defining new relationships and/or media types. In contrast
> >> your representations aren't self-describing and so force a tighter
> >> coupling between the client and server and they require some out of
> band
> >> process to ensure that coupling is maintained.
> >
> > The individual pieces of metadata have a defined type.  If the CDN
> > supports a given piece of metadata, it will know what the type is.  The
> > metadata distribution protocol, imo, does not need to know the type
> > as long as the CDN who receives the metadata understands it?  Knowing
> > the type is not necessarily enough information to know what to do with
> > it, the full definition of the metadata is required either way?
>
> I don't see anything in your proposal that indicates what the type (or
> protocol version) a particular piece of metadata has so I therefore assum=
e
> it must be known by some other method (e.g. the protocol version is agree=
d
> out of band, the type is inferred from something) that has the consequenc=
e
> of requiring tighter coupling between client & server.
>
> As an example, think through how if your proposal is deployed would you
> migrate to a newer version of the protocol and the level of explicit
> knowledge and coupling between clients & servers required to do so.
>
> With self-describing objects and standard HTTP content negotiation to
> negotiate a version of the objects media-type that both client & server
> support it is, for example, possible to deploy a new protocol version of
> our proposal on the server without requiring any changes on the clients
> while retaining full backward compatibility. Clients than can be upgraded
> independently of one another over a period of time while still retaining
> backwards compatibility.
>
> I don't see any way to do that with your proposal without requiring
> configuration on the server to tell it what version to expect from each
> client and updating that configuration in lock-step with updating the
> client requiring tight client/server coupling and coupled out of band
> configuration.

A version field for the protocol could certainly be added, though, the
initial version could be assumed, until a new version is introduced.
Versioning for the metadata itself I assumed would be part of the
metadata definition, possibly embedded as part of the name field.

> >> Bootstrapping & Coupling:
> >> Similarly, with the CDNI Metadata interface/protocol we have proposed,
> the
> >> configuration/bootstrapping of the interface is as simple as possible
> but
> >> no simpler (a single URI) from which the dCDN can discover the locatio=
n
> of
> >> all the CDNI metadata records they have access to. It also allows the
> uCDN
> >> to define the URI format (and hostname it's provided by) as they see
> fit.
> >> The uCDN has maximum flexibility to organise the different CDNI
> metadata
> >> objects and complete control over how they extend their implementation
> to
> >> support additional data objects or how they support mapping different
> >> dCDNs to different sets of (or versions of) CDNI metadata.
> >>
> >> Your proposal imposes a greater configuration/bootstrapping burden on
> the
> >> dCDN as there is no way for it to discover the domains it has access
> to,
> >> it needs to know the URI/hostname of the uCDN's Metadata interface and
> the
> >> domains to query against that interface. The use of fixed paths in the
> URI
> >> that map to the different data object enforces rigidity on the uCDN's
> CDNI
> >> Metadata implementation (and tight coupling between the client and
> server)
> >> and means that if the uCDN wishes to extend its implementation to
> support
> >> additional objects it risks picking paths that may later clash with
> paths
> >> defined by newer versions of your protocol.
> >
> > Your SiteFeed object provides Site information (which is fairly
> analogous
> > to domain information).  Domain information could also be put into a
> feed,
> > however, I assume that business processes drive what goes into the
> SiteFeed.
>
> Of course it's possible to modify your proposal to look more like ours :-=
)
> but my overall argument is that our proposal does everything yours does i=
n
> a more flexible & extensible way with the exception of defining an Agent
> object which isn't relevant to CDNI Metadata anyway.
>
> > Is the SiteFeed configured offline, as part of some business process?
> > If so, then is it better to configure Site information as a feed in
> > the uCDN, or as domains in the dCDN.  I do not have a strong feeling
> > either way, but I do not see our schemes as being so different.
>
> They're not the same thing though. The SiteFeed enables a dCDN to
> bootstrap itself. Whether it is configured offline or automatically
> generated by the uCDN based on some configured policy and/or other data i=
t
> has automatically obtained (e.g. another SiteFeed when the uCDN is acting
> as a dCDN for another CDN) is an implementation decision for each
> individual CDN.
>
> Your proposal doesn't include a proposal for bootstrapping unless you're
> suggesting the uCDN POST Domains into the dCDN in advance of the dCDN
> requiring the associated CDNI Metadata (but your draft doesn't propose
> that so I'm just guessing)?

That is certainly an option.  Though how to bootstrap is not explicitly
defined, the tools necessary to do so (i.e., the POST APIs) are provided.

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

> Ben
>
> >
> > thanx.
> >
> > --  Kevin J. Ma
> >
> >> Taking the above factors into consideration I believe that our propose=
d
> >> data model and interface specification is flexible and extensible
> enough
> >> to address the current and future needs of CDNI.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >


From kevin.ma@azukisystems.com  Mon Oct 31 16:40:43 2011
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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Bruce Davie <bdavie@cisco.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:40:40 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt
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Subject: Re: [CDNi] Fwd: New Version Notification for	draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt
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Hi Bruce,

  Given the change suggesting the MI for purge/pre-positioning, will
  there be a request to change the requirements (CNTL-1 and CNTL-4)
  to move purge/pre-position out of the CI?  As I recall, wrt purge,
  requirement CNTL-2 (cascaded completion notification aggregation)
  was an significant consideration in selecting the CI over the MI?

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma


From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bru=
ce Davie
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:25 PM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framewor=
k-01.txt

I presented version -00 of this draft in Quebec City. Please post comments =
to the list.

Regards,
Bruce Davie


Begin forwarded message:


From: internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: October 31, 2011 3:23:01 PM EDT
To: bsd@cisco.com<mailto:bsd@cisco.com>
Cc: lpeterson@verivue.com<mailto:lpeterson@verivue.com>, bsd@cisco.com<mail=
to:bsd@cisco.com>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt has been successful=
ly submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:       draft-davie-cdni-framework
Revision:       01
Title:              Framework for CDN Interconnection
Creation date:            2011-10-31
WG ID:                     Individual Submission
Number of pages: 52

Abstract:
  This document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network
  Interconnection (CDNI).  The purpose of the framework is to provide
  an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to describe the
  relationships among the various components necessary to interconnect
  CDNs.  CDN Interconnection requires the specification of several
  interfaces and mechanisms to address issues such as request routing,
  metadata exchange, and the acquisition of content by one CDN from
  another.  The intent of this document is to outline what each
  interface needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces
  and mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed
  specification to other documents.




The IETF Secretariat


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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Hi Bruce,<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; Given the change suggesting the=
 MI for purge/pre-positioning, will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; there =
be a request to change the requirements (CNTL-1 and CNTL-4)<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New"'>&nbsp; to move purge/pre-position out of the CI?&nbsp; As I reca=
ll, wrt purge,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; requirement CNTL-2 (cascade=
d completion notification aggregation)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; was=
 an significant consideration in selecting the CI over the MI?<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>thanx.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>--&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><di=
v style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0=
pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3=
.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cd=
ni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bruce Davie<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday=
, October 31, 2011 3:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [=
CDNi] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal>I presented version -00 of this draft in Quebec City. P=
lease post comments to the list.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Bruce Davie<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></p></d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>From=
: </span></b><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-=
serif"'><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.or=
g</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Date: </span></b=
><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Octo=
ber 31, 2011 3:23:01 PM EDT</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-seri=
f"'>To: </span></b><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",=
"sans-serif"'><a href=3D"mailto:bsd@cisco.com">bsd@cisco.com</a></span><o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:13.5=
pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Cc: </span></b><span style=3D'font=
-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"mailto:lpeter=
son@verivue.com">lpeterson@verivue.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:bsd@cisco.com=
">bsd@cisco.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><b=
><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>Subj=
ect: New Version Notification for draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt</span><=
/b><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal>A new version of I-D, draft-davie-cdni-framework-01.txt ha=
s been successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF reposit=
ory.<br><br>Filename:<span class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; </span> draft-davie-cdni-framework<br>Revision:<span class=3Dap=
ple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 01<br>Title:<span=
 class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> Framework for CDN Interconnection<br>Cr=
eation date:<span class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 2011-10-31<br>WG ID:<span class=3D=
apple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> Indivi=
dual Submission<br>Number of pages: 52<br><br>Abstract:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;This=
 document presents a framework for Content Distribution Network<br>&nbsp;&n=
bsp;Interconnection (CDNI). &nbsp;The purpose of the framework is to provid=
e<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;an overall picture of the problem space of CDNI and to des=
cribe the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;relationships among the various components necessa=
ry to interconnect<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;CDNs. &nbsp;CDN Interconnection requires =
the specification of several<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;interfaces and mechanisms to ad=
dress issues such as request routing,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;metadata exchange, and=
 the acquisition of content by one CDN from<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;another. &nbsp;T=
he intent of this document is to outline what each<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;interface=
 needs to accomplish, and to describe how these interfaces<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;a=
nd mechanisms fit together, while leaving their detailed<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;spe=
cification to other documents.<br><br><br><br><br>The IETF Secretariat<o:p>=
</o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div=
></div></body></html>=

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From: Kevin J Ma <kevin.ma@azukisystems.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur <flefauch@cisco.com>, "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:36:41 -0400
Thread-Topic: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots
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Francois/Rich,

  I would like to request a slot for the following draft:

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-01

thanx.

--  Kevin J. Ma

From: cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fra=
ncois Le Faucheur
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 1:04 PM
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI WG requests for slots

Hello All,

We'd like to ask any interested parties to let us know about their request =
for a slot at our WG meeting planned for IETF82.

Regards,
Francois & Rich


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nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Francois/Rich,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Couri=
er New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>&nbsp; I would like to request a =
slot for the following draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Courier New"'>&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ma-cdni-me=
tadata-01">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ma-cdni-metadata-01</a><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>thanx.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour=
ier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>--&nbsp; Kevin J. Ma<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border=
-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border=
:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> cdni-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Be=
half Of </b>Francois Le Faucheur<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 24, 2011 1=
:04 PM<br><b>To:</b> cdni@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [CDNi] IETF82 - CDNI =
WG requests for slots<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello All,<br><br>We'd like to a=
sk any interested parties to let us know about their request for a slot at&=
nbsp;our WG meeting planned for IETF82.<br><br>Regards,<br>Francois &amp; R=
ich<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></b=
ody></html>=

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