From nobody Wed Jan 7 15:51:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAFC1A86FE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:51:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9m8vIaPwnhAd for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47A491A86FB for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:51:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3887; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1420674690; x=1421884290; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=COubN7ZKh4xTAIWMZBZikZKLCk2RhBxlXdj1DRnETn8=; b=IMQtZnbOgfVJS0bz9qYlbFxp57fYaUMFf43/856esC4ibJoTu51jSkiv HmN22oyGicXGXq5OBNls27Zqso/rb+flZLFqVILGsTH1iaKp1G6jE2PDz 0fwZOZIKqqEBXQH6boEXeLnfikR1rtpTQ+EclhlWr6CGJPm/53eG/zeYW I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAC/GrVStJV2d/2dsb2JhbABcgkNDUlzLeQKBEEMBAQEBAX2EDgEELV4BDB5WJgEEG4gjAaEJonsBAQEBAQUBAQEBAQEcj0eDToETBY4ummQig26CNH4BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,718,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="111239550" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Jan 2015 23:51:20 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com [173.36.12.81]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t07NpKFm007060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:51:20 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.100]) by xhc-aln-x07.cisco.com ([173.36.12.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 17:51:20 -0600 From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Key ID options for URI Signing draft Thread-Index: AdAq1NUsu44yS7ZcRyqN6LqOMZhzcw== Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:51:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [171.71.231.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CD85F32117029D4F9AEF48BDEF5536AB782D3710xmbalnx03ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cdni/A_h7V3FyN_UQG923CzlcIuRU8tM Subject: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 23:51:32 -0000 --_000_CD85F32117029D4F9AEF48BDEF5536AB782D3710xmbalnx03ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi folks. For implementation simplicity, there's value to have Key ID using= a number to reference the key. The current KID IE is specified to be gener= ic using a string format. Perhaps we should specify two IEs to provide the = flexibility vs. simplicity options? For example, Key ID Number (KIDNUM) IE = and Key ID reference (KIDREF) provides the number and string formats, respe= ctively. Only one of the IE can be used as the key identifier in the signed= URI. The current KID IE will be replaced by the two IEs. Let me know if there are any objections. This change will be incorporated i= n the next version. Kent --_000_CD85F32117029D4F9AEF48BDEF5536AB782D3710xmbalnx03ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi folks. For implementation simplicity, there’= ;s value to have Key ID using a number to reference the key. The current KI= D IE is specified to be generic using a string format. Perhaps we should sp= ecify two IEs to provide the flexibility vs. simplicity options? For example, Key ID Number (KIDNUM) IE and Key ID = reference (KIDREF) provides the number and string formats, respectively. On= ly one of the IE can be used as the key identifier in the signed URI. The c= urrent KID IE will be replaced by the two IEs.

 

Let me know if there are any objections. This change= will be incorporated in the next version.

 

Kent

--_000_CD85F32117029D4F9AEF48BDEF5536AB782D3710xmbalnx03ciscoc_-- From nobody Wed Jan 7 15:54:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2101A870B for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:54:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIj3miPcLpiU for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 083F31A8701 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7065; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1420674870; x=1421884470; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Dew5G+9dLEJWe2myrdzsd3QHtef0FIZ+7LqYCBQjJwo=; b=YwS4JErAnQcnt0q/oWj7+BgzIZClSNw4tHRKNRVYmf/Z1OimrCJgBZjl fjYdA4kL5VMk4yL9zFmtsLAcxGe8YUG/HsNxXp9gHI3gnBxDOZzL5KYNA thS9QjiSBB6y/7bVl0QMJoWApWaUbT1RdE+VjIkLOTOcrX29/SZb/j34N Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ar0PAPfFrVStJV2a/2dsb2JhbABcgwZSWAS0Qj+QewqFcwKBEEMBAQEBAX2EDAEBAQMBAQEBNzQLBQcEAgEIEQQBAQEKFAkHJwsUCQgCBAENBQgSiAoHAQ3DdQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReKN4JWgjoxBwaDEIETBY4ug0NBhgowkCYig25vAYFEfgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,718,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="385186903" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Jan 2015 23:54:29 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t07NsTts027920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:54:29 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.100]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 7 Jan 2015 17:54:28 -0600 From: "Kent Leung (kleung)" To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" , Ben Niven-Jenkins Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Thread-Index: AQHP/gWZcjC4WeJbFUStxfdC8RpP1JxePdmAgABL0wCAAJm0gIABI9xwgAMBhYCAAQvfwIAAth8AgAWXSICABUf9AIAJot4AgAM6/wCAOOYGAA== Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:54:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4C639B2E-E1B8-4B42-8F76-D98697E7CE5D@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <60396378-BBFF-4926-8141-990141163B1E@tno.nl> <166EBB70C264A9479E459B01B1BA6C926D62FDF4@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <3A7EDCDD-7C42-4D82-88DE-E81A0EB65EB5@tno.nl> <166EBB70C264A9479E459B01B1BA6C926D641A55@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <72CA5ACB-4283-41F7-A991-E53ABDE335AD@tno.nl> <9D8B22BA-A2C1-4AE9-9976-246D7D7D7969@niven-jenkins.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [171.71.231.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cdni/U5KjyyO93Tmms4sxQ7EKHgXtS6E Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2015 23:54:39 -0000 Hi Ray. Is it possible to summarize the conclusion of this discussion if an= y consensus was reached? I'd like to see if we need to make any edits for t= he next version of the draft. Thanks! Kent -----Original Message----- From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandenburg, R. (Ray= ) van Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 4:58 AM To: Ben Niven-Jenkins Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Hi Ben, -----Original Message----- From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] Sent: zondag 30 november 2014 12:39 To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van Cc: Matt Caulfield (mcaulfie); Francois Le Faucher; cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Ray, See inline... On 24 Nov 2014, at 08:29, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote: > On 20/11/14 23:50, "Ben Niven-Jenkins" wrote: >=20 >> Ray, >>=20 >> I haven't caught up with the whole thread yet, but wanted to respond=20 >> to a couple things you say below. >>=20 >> On 17 Nov 2014, at 10:27, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van=20 >> wrote: >>=20 >>> From: Matt Caulfield (mcaulfie) [mailto:mcaulfie@cisco.com] >>>> From: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van [mailto:ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl]I >>>> don't necessarily think this method is superior to the Cookie-method. >>>> Both have their pros and cons. The problem with the Cookie method=20 >>>> is that it doesn't work when the manifest is served by the Content=20 >>>> Provider (which can be quite a common case). The problem with the=20 >>>> header-query-string method is that it only works for DASH clients,=20 >>>> and not for standard HLS clients. >>>=20 >>> In the case where the manifest is served by the Content Provider and=20 >>> the segments are served by the CDN, wouldn't the MPD need to contain=20 >>> absolute URLs? Meaning that segment URLs would go through regular=20 >>> request routing and URI signing? >>>=20 >>> [Ray] Yes, it would contain absolute URLs. It would be possible for=20 >>> the CSP to sign these URLs, however, that would mean signing them=20 >>> with an expiration time of at least the length of the content item. >>=20 >> Isn't that the same for the case where both the manifest & content is=20 >> served by the dCDN? The Content Provider only gets one chance to sign=20 >> a cookie in that case too? >=20 > The initial cookie yes. But the dCDN has the chance of=20 > refreshing/resigning the cookie every time a new request comes in. I'm struggling a little to get a picture of how you imagine this working? If the dCDN is seeing a valid (token in a) cookie and then setting a new (t= oken in a) cookie to effectively extend the validity of authorisation to ac= cess the content, it is not clear to me how that is in practice any differe= nt to setting a single cookie with a long expiration time. Could you explain a bit what the difference are? [Ray] The assumption is that a cookie that is only valid for e.g. 30 second= s before it has to be refreshed is inherently safer than one that is valid = for 90 minutes. Let me put it differently: if you have a token that is vali= d for 90 minutes (or possibly more) what is the purpose of having a token a= t all? If you look at URI Signing from a broader perspective, not just at H= AS content, is it really that much more difficult to share the deep-link to= the CDN that sharing the deep-link to the CDN in combination with the Cook= ie?=20 >> I also don't understand why the Content Provider delivering the=20 >> manifest and the dCDN delivering the content results in the Content=20 >> Provider having to sign the individual URLs in the manifest. >>=20 >> AFAIK (I haven't tested it), the Content Provider can deliver the=20 >> manifest from manifest.video.example.com and deliver the content via=20 >> the uCDN/dCDN by using URLs pointing to chunks.video.example.com and=20 >> share cookies across the domains by setting the token in a cookie=20 >> with a Domain attribute of ".video.example.com". >=20 > I believe most browser implementations reject cross-domain cookies,=20 > unless using CORS. What I described are not really cross-domain cookies, the situation I descr= ibe above is allowed by RFC6265 for instance and is not the same as say man= ifest.bar.com trying to set a cookie for chunks.foo.com Having said that I have no idea whether browsers typically have a stricter = policy than specified in RFC6265 but I have seen references on various help= websites (e.g. stack overflow) suggesting what I describe above as being a= llowed by browsers. [Ray] Agree, as long as it is the same domain. However, in the typical CSP-= CDN scenario, you're talking about different domains.=20 >> Alternatively the Content Provider could use CORS to enable cookie=20 >> sharing across domains. >=20 > I haven't thought of using CORS before. In theory I guess it should be=20 > possible. Do you have any idea on whether such a mechanism is used in=20 > practice by players/CDNs? We have customers that use CORS as part of their video services/players (wh= ere we are the CDN) but I am not in a position to share many details. I hav= e seen CORS used to deliver video to Chromecast devices. [Ray] Ok. That's good news. So I guess using CORS to set cross-domain cooki= es would be possible.=20 Ray >>> For an MPD of a 90min movie, that would mean expiration times of at=20 >>> least 90mins, which would reduce, if not negate altogether, the=20 >>> effectiveness of signing the URLs in the first place. >>=20 >> There are other approaches to avoid long expiration times, e.g=20 >> defining the semantics of the token so that it expiration applies to=20 >> TCP connection setup and so multiple requests are allowed on a=20 >> persistent connection past the expiration time of the token. >=20 > Hmm, yes, that would probably work, although it would give issues in=20 > case of dropped TCP connections. It does sound a bit like a=20 > cross-layer violation. Are you aware of any implementations that work lik= e this? I am not aware of any implementations that work like that. Another way to minimise the possible exposure of a long expiration time wou= ld be to "lock" the token to the client's IP address, although that is not = perfect in all cases either. Ben >=20 > Ray >=20 >>=20 >> Ben > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you= are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you a= re requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no li= ability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it = and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electro= nic transmission of messages. _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Thu Jan 8 18:59:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817B41A70FF for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 18:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2KFezOhQWV4k for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 18:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cosmo.ogre.com (cosmo4.ogre.com [71.6.165.248]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 788711A7033 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 18:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by cosmo.ogre.com (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id t092xBwp029695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 8 Jan 2015 18:59:12 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ogre.com; s=03062012; t=1420772362; bh=sFGAEZLOEOvXm+N12+YEr6VMDNh1nC81/z4awPfUsD0=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=r2efIliydaynCAlwEk1ohBGu9CVxrtJ03rh1EeFMJjJH/UweNfNPeThmrx+MwhTBO e9WWgtOC6XlVjY398BQDJ5kpPR8h6Lii6yAcyVqcCktTf26/lb9fi5xOuTxLnwu8Cm 4OG2/mQdwG6OkX1YsqeP9TOmF+Scc4xjjtHuk1Sg= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AAFE0A2B-3ECE-481B-9C0C-CE38B2B1A5D2"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Leif Hedstrom In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 19:59:11 -0700 Message-Id: <42CA14EE-0CB4-49D0-9231-C16B2FCACD2F@ogre.com> References: To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2015 02:59:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AAFE0A2B-3ECE-481B-9C0C-CE38B2B1A5D2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37C4C5DE-CEA4-40E4-9FE1-9094A5C82087" --Apple-Mail=_37C4C5DE-CEA4-40E4-9FE1-9094A5C82087 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 7, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Kent Leung (kleung) = wrote: >=20 > Hi folks. For implementation simplicity, there=E2=80=99s value to have = Key ID using a number to reference the key. The current KID IE is = specified to be generic using a string format. Perhaps we should specify = two IEs to provide the flexibility vs. simplicity options? For example, = Key ID Number (KIDNUM) IE and Key ID reference (KIDREF) provides the = number and string formats, respectively. Only one of the IE can be used = as the key identifier in the signed URI. The current KID IE will be = replaced by the two IEs. I would very much like to see some constraints on the KID. A numeric = value seems fine, as long as you put some well defined limits on it = (e.g. 64-bit unsigned). Cheers, =E2=80=94 leif= --Apple-Mail=_37C4C5DE-CEA4-40E4-9FE1-9094A5C82087 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jan 7, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Kent Leung (kleung) <kleung@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi folks. = For implementation simplicity, there=E2=80=99s value to have Key ID = using a number to reference the key. The current KID IE is specified to = be generic using a string format. Perhaps we should specify two IEs to = provide the flexibility vs. simplicity options? For example, Key ID = Number (KIDNUM) IE and Key ID reference (KIDREF) provides the number and = string formats, respectively. Only one of the IE can be used as the key = identifier in the signed URI. The current KID IE will be replaced by the = two IEs.


I would very much like to see some constraints on the = KID. A numeric value seems fine, as long as you put some well defined = limits on it (e.g. 64-bit unsigned).

Cheers,

=E2=80=94= leif
= --Apple-Mail=_37C4C5DE-CEA4-40E4-9FE1-9094A5C82087-- --Apple-Mail=_AAFE0A2B-3ECE-481B-9C0C-CE38B2B1A5D2 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIQizCCBSUw ggQNoAMCAQICEHcYalPxnrZw3l0iKRCJGO4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwgZcxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkdC MRswGQYDVQQIExJHcmVhdGVyIE1hbmNoZXN0ZXIxEDAOBgNVBAcTB1NhbGZvcmQxGjAYBgNVBAoT EUNPTU9ETyBDQSBMaW1pdGVkMT0wOwYDVQQDEzRDT01PRE8gUlNBIENsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNh dGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTE0MTIwMTAwMDAwMFoXDTE1MTIwMTIzNTk1OVow HjEcMBoGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYNbGVpZkBvZ3JlLmNvbTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCC AQoCggEBAPKit35iCSt64N8JHACjty3mm9WE/PHX+Jp39Vnex+E1S37L8DdrP7zaL85w7XPDOg6P 2cYpacEq8vRLzb397n1UfXY6NdlZ+uAJcqURuvwLYJWoy1QOc3h0gsC99hyqKKAt7Ho3oMbdLB2y vlQ6IuioJQU46+eEku3iX8UeP/E4BXOx4txiZlUzKmg1Yg5kUrAFo0SqRJXBrjQ1f/I3bZreEMz3 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autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id STeOMV0yZDBt for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from fromintouta.tno.nl (fromintouta.tno.nl [134.221.1.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6891A9245 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:13:16 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,432,1418079600"; d="scan'208";a="36837442" Received: from exc-cashub01.tsn.tno.nl (HELO mail.tno.nl) ([134.221.225.220]) by mailhost1a.tno.nl with ESMTP; 20 Jan 2015 10:13:15 +0100 Received: from EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::e969:1300:fb9f:7e12]) by EXC-CASHUB01.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::b855:be6:1aa8:4d0f%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:13:14 +0100 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: Rob Murray , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHQI11E2nWqvHtMoEiGr24Q5PBNtJymZCWAgCJ1S6A= Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141229114647.7621.55315.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7FDC0CFB-3546-46A9-B3F9-8880EA3CD1F0@velocix.com> In-Reply-To: <7FDC0CFB-3546-46A9-B3F9-8880EA3CD1F0@velocix.com> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-05.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 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X-Spam-Score: -2.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rOLGqSNX3rHN for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from fromintoutb.tno.nl (fromintoutb.tno.nl [134.221.1.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EAF1A9245 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:20:01 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,432,1418079600"; d="scan'208,217";a="6051412" Received: from exc-cashub03.tsn.tno.nl (HELO mail.tno.nl) ([134.221.225.222]) by mailhost1b.tno.nl with ESMTP; 20 Jan 2015 10:19:53 +0100 Received: from EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::e969:1300:fb9f:7e12]) by EXC-CASHUB03.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::6d39:f277:173e:a926%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:19:52 +0100 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Key ID options for URI Signing draft Thread-Index: AdAq1NUsu44yS7ZcRyqN6LqOMZhzcwJvIaKQ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:19:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1582038D6F3EXCMBX03tsntnon_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:20:05 -0000 --_000_FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1582038D6F3EXCMBX03tsntnon_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, I'm not a big fan of having two IEs for effectively the same purpose. I und= erstand the arguments in favor of allowing both options, but since we don't= describe the semantics of the KID field anyway, wouldn't it be possible fo= r a uCDN-dCDN pair that would prefer using numeric values to just parse the= KID strings as an integer? Alternatively, if there are arguments agains that, maybe it would be possib= le to have some sort of sub-options (e.g. KID=3DNUM: and KID=3DSTR:) Thanks, Ray From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung) Sent: donderdag 8 januari 2015 0:51 To: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft Hi folks. For implementation simplicity, there's value to have Key ID using= a number to reference the key. The current KID IE is specified to be gener= ic using a string format. Perhaps we should specify two IEs to provide the = flexibility vs. simplicity options? For example, Key ID Number (KIDNUM) IE = and Key ID reference (KIDREF) provides the number and string formats, respe= ctively. Only one of the IE can be used as the key identifier in the signed= URI. The current KID IE will be replaced by the two IEs. Let me know if there are any objections. This change will be incorporated i= n the next version. Kent This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you a= re not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are= requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liab= ility for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it an= d for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electroni= c transmission of messages. --_000_FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1582038D6F3EXCMBX03tsntnon_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent= ,

&n= bsp;

I’= ;m not a big fan of having two IEs for effectively the same purpose. I unde= rstand the arguments in favor of allowing both options, but since we don= 217;t describe the semantics of the KID field anyway, wouldn’t it be possible for a uCDN-dCDN pair that would prefer using= numeric values to just parse the KID strings as an integer?

&n= bsp;

Alterna= tively, if there are arguments agains that, maybe it would be possible to h= ave some sort of sub-options (e.g. KID=3DNUM:<num> and KID=3DSTR:<= string>)

&n= bsp;

Thanks,=


Ray

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Leung (kleung)
Sent: donderdag 8 januari 2015 0:51
To: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft

 

Hi= folks. For implementation simplicity, there’s value to have Key ID u= sing a number to reference the key. The current KID IE is specified to be g= eneric using a string format. Perhaps we should specify two IEs to provide the flexibility vs. simplicity options? For exa= mple, Key ID Number (KIDNUM) IE and Key ID reference (KIDREF) provides the = number and string formats, respectively. Only one of the IE can be used as = the key identifier in the signed URI. The current KID IE will be replaced by the two IEs.=

 

Le= t me know if there are any objections. This change will be incorporated in = the next version.

 

Ke= nt

 

To: "Kent Leung (kleung)" , Ben Niven-Jenkins Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Thread-Index: AQHP/gWZcjC4WeJbFUStxfdC8RpP1JxdyIGAgABcl4CAAJm2AIABe1QAgAKqFQCAAWKZgIAAXRCQgAWIzoCABVjCgIAJkhkAgANIPpCAOT31AIATmHjQ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:34:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4C639B2E-E1B8-4B42-8F76-D98697E7CE5D@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <60396378-BBFF-4926-8141-990141163B1E@tno.nl> <166EBB70C264A9479E459B01B1BA6C926D62FDF4@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <3A7EDCDD-7C42-4D82-88DE-E81A0EB65EB5@tno.nl> <166EBB70C264A9479E459B01B1BA6C926D641A55@xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com> <72CA5ACB-4283-41F7-A991-E53ABDE335AD@tno.nl> <9D8B22BA-A2C1-4AE9-9976-246D7D7D7969@niven-jenkins.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:34:19 -0000 Hi, Thanks all for the feedback and discussions. Let me try to summarize what w= as discussed. We seem to agree that it is worthwhile to consider the request from MPEG. We seem to agree that we should focus on the access control use case. The a= d skipping use case from MPEG is of secondary importance and we first need = some more information from MPEG on that.=20 We prefer a solution that is not necessarily limited to DASH, and would als= o work for other adaptive streaming mechanisms (e.g. HLS).=20 We discussed two possible solutions for conveying information between reque= sts: cookie-based and header-query-string based. The advantage of a cookie-= based solution is that we don't need to change anything in the client. Usin= g CORS it would even work in cases where the MPD is delivered by the CSP. T= he only downside is that all segments need to be delivered by the same doma= in (which is known a-priori). The header-query-string method is considerabl= y more complex. The advantage is that it is potentially more flexible, but = at the cost of being limited to DASH clients.=20 At this point, I think consensus is that we prefer the cookie method, while= the header-query-string method might at best be an optional feature that w= e could include to handle more advanced cases. Does anybody disagree with t= hat statement? What we didn't discuss yet in any detail is the type of information that ne= eds to be carried inside the cookie (or header), to allow the (d)CDN to det= ermine whether the requested segment falls within the allowed set of segmen= ts.=20 At this point, I would be interested to hear your opinion on whether you th= ink we need to tackle the problem of URI Signing for HAS within the current= draft-ietf-cdni-uri-signing, or whether we need to create a separate draft= for this. On this aspect, I would like to note that I consider having a st= andardized mechanism for URI Signing to also be useful outside the scope of= CDNI, where it could be beneficial for regular CDN applications as well. Best regards, Ray -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung (kleung) [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20 Sent: donderdag 8 januari 2015 0:54 To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van; Ben Niven-Jenkins Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: RE: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Hi Ray. Is it possible to summarize the conclusion of this discussion if an= y consensus was reached? I'd like to see if we need to make any edits for t= he next version of the draft. Thanks! Kent -----Original Message----- From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandenburg, R. (Ray= ) van Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 4:58 AM To: Ben Niven-Jenkins Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Hi Ben, -----Original Message----- From: Ben Niven-Jenkins [mailto:ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk] Sent: zondag 30 november 2014 12:39 To: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van Cc: Matt Caulfield (mcaulfie); Francois Le Faucher; cdni@ietf.org Subject: Re: [CDNi] Liaison Statement on URI Signing for MPEG-DASH Ray, See inline... On 24 Nov 2014, at 08:29, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote: > On 20/11/14 23:50, "Ben Niven-Jenkins" wrote: >=20 >> Ray, >>=20 >> I haven't caught up with the whole thread yet, but wanted to respond=20 >> to a couple things you say below. >>=20 >> On 17 Nov 2014, at 10:27, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van=20 >> wrote: >>=20 >>> From: Matt Caulfield (mcaulfie) [mailto:mcaulfie@cisco.com] >>>> From: Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van [mailto:ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl]I >>>> don't necessarily think this method is superior to the Cookie-method. >>>> Both have their pros and cons. The problem with the Cookie method=20 >>>> is that it doesn't work when the manifest is served by the Content=20 >>>> Provider (which can be quite a common case). The problem with the=20 >>>> header-query-string method is that it only works for DASH clients,=20 >>>> and not for standard HLS clients. >>>=20 >>> In the case where the manifest is served by the Content Provider and=20 >>> the segments are served by the CDN, wouldn't the MPD need to contain=20 >>> absolute URLs? Meaning that segment URLs would go through regular=20 >>> request routing and URI signing? >>>=20 >>> [Ray] Yes, it would contain absolute URLs. It would be possible for=20 >>> the CSP to sign these URLs, however, that would mean signing them=20 >>> with an expiration time of at least the length of the content item. >>=20 >> Isn't that the same for the case where both the manifest & content is=20 >> served by the dCDN? The Content Provider only gets one chance to sign=20 >> a cookie in that case too? >=20 > The initial cookie yes. But the dCDN has the chance of=20 > refreshing/resigning the cookie every time a new request comes in. I'm struggling a little to get a picture of how you imagine this working? If the dCDN is seeing a valid (token in a) cookie and then setting a new (t= oken in a) cookie to effectively extend the validity of authorisation to ac= cess the content, it is not clear to me how that is in practice any differe= nt to setting a single cookie with a long expiration time. Could you explain a bit what the difference are? [Ray] The assumption is that a cookie that is only valid for e.g. 30 second= s before it has to be refreshed is inherently safer than one that is valid = for 90 minutes. Let me put it differently: if you have a token that is vali= d for 90 minutes (or possibly more) what is the purpose of having a token a= t all? If you look at URI Signing from a broader perspective, not just at H= AS content, is it really that much more difficult to share the deep-link to= the CDN that sharing the deep-link to the CDN in combination with the Cook= ie?=20 >> I also don't understand why the Content Provider delivering the=20 >> manifest and the dCDN delivering the content results in the Content=20 >> Provider having to sign the individual URLs in the manifest. >>=20 >> AFAIK (I haven't tested it), the Content Provider can deliver the=20 >> manifest from manifest.video.example.com and deliver the content via=20 >> the uCDN/dCDN by using URLs pointing to chunks.video.example.com and=20 >> share cookies across the domains by setting the token in a cookie=20 >> with a Domain attribute of ".video.example.com". >=20 > I believe most browser implementations reject cross-domain cookies,=20 > unless using CORS. What I described are not really cross-domain cookies, the situation I descr= ibe above is allowed by RFC6265 for instance and is not the same as say man= ifest.bar.com trying to set a cookie for chunks.foo.com Having said that I have no idea whether browsers typically have a stricter = policy than specified in RFC6265 but I have seen references on various help= websites (e.g. stack overflow) suggesting what I describe above as being a= llowed by browsers. [Ray] Agree, as long as it is the same domain. However, in the typical CSP-= CDN scenario, you're talking about different domains.=20 >> Alternatively the Content Provider could use CORS to enable cookie=20 >> sharing across domains. >=20 > I haven't thought of using CORS before. In theory I guess it should be=20 > possible. Do you have any idea on whether such a mechanism is used in=20 > practice by players/CDNs? We have customers that use CORS as part of their video services/players (wh= ere we are the CDN) but I am not in a position to share many details. I hav= e seen CORS used to deliver video to Chromecast devices. [Ray] Ok. That's good news. So I guess using CORS to set cross-domain cooki= es would be possible.=20 Ray >>> For an MPD of a 90min movie, that would mean expiration times of at=20 >>> least 90mins, which would reduce, if not negate altogether, the=20 >>> effectiveness of signing the URLs in the first place. >>=20 >> There are other approaches to avoid long expiration times, e.g=20 >> defining the semantics of the token so that it expiration applies to=20 >> TCP connection setup and so multiple requests are allowed on a=20 >> persistent connection past the expiration time of the token. >=20 > Hmm, yes, that would probably work, although it would give issues in=20 > case of dropped TCP connections. It does sound a bit like a=20 > cross-layer violation. Are you aware of any implementations that work lik= e this? I am not aware of any implementations that work like that. Another way to minimise the possible exposure of a long expiration time wou= ld be to "lock" the token to the client's IP address, although that is not = perfect in all cases either. Ben >=20 > Ray >=20 >>=20 >> Ben > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you= are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you a= re requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no li= ability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it = and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electro= nic transmission of messages. _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Tue Jan 20 08:48:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EBB1B2A9A for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:48:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v14xQlFp2Pvg for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cosmo.ogre.com (cosmo4.ogre.com [71.6.165.248]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30DC91B2AC2 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by cosmo.ogre.com (8.14.8/8.14.8) with ESMTP id t0KGmGMZ030048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:48:17 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ogre.com; s=03062012; t=1421772498; bh=xh7LE/wtMqzmXBmlFbxso39lLL8+7j283W6qh9Xzs7I=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=o63zPtuR9vVjQ5e1xZaEQVlL+qesG2Ef/rY1Y5nx7M0UrVCQBNs3j4wf9Mcib6tE3 xfqmVyA7cOwFSFo5GPf10no3glG4MoqngixInYpqEi8GtSIC3Yx5TrtRcWlYjb4Az0 fGF4KLOwvPmOc20sVEGG63M6Xz+EmuMUII0PK19g= Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D37EA5DD-2B64-47B0-82D3-ADE44F4B854E"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) From: Leif Hedstrom In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:48:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9CAD20F3-3779-4494-AC38-8C3ECF6536C5@ogre.com> References: To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:48:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D37EA5DD-2B64-47B0-82D3-ADE44F4B854E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C8805E9-D727-44C6-A1FB-FAB9E868E3A9" --Apple-Mail=_9C8805E9-D727-44C6-A1FB-FAB9E868E3A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 20, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van = wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > I=E2=80=99m not a big fan of having two IEs for effectively the same = purpose. I understand the arguments in favor of allowing both options, = but since we don=E2=80=99t describe the semantics of the KID field = anyway, wouldn=E2=80=99t it be possible for a uCDN-dCDN pair that would = prefer using numeric values to just parse the KID strings as an integer? > =20 > Alternatively, if there are arguments agains that, maybe it would be = possible to have some sort of sub-options (e.g. KID=3DNUM: and = KID=3DSTR:) I=E2=80=99m ok either way. My primary motivation is that I think KID = should have a max length defined in the standards. I don=E2=80=99t care = if its 64-bytes, or 256-bytes, or something otherwise reasonable. = Allowing it for arbitrary length makes implementations less efficient = and likely, error prone. Yes, I=E2=80=99m painfully aware that the RFCs = for HTTP and URLs do not impose a max-URL length, but that=E2=80=99s not = an excuse for us making things worse :). I understand that the CDNs at play can put whatever restrictions in as = they like, but that also makes for iffy interops IMO. Cheers, =E2=80=94 leif --Apple-Mail=_9C8805E9-D727-44C6-A1FB-FAB9E868E3A9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jan 20, 2015, at 2:19 AM, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl> wrote:

Hi = Kent,
 
I=E2=80=99m = not a big fan of having two IEs for effectively the same purpose. I = understand the arguments in favor of allowing both options, but since we = don=E2=80=99t describe the semantics of the KID field anyway, wouldn=E2=80= =99t it be possible for a uCDN-dCDN pair that would prefer using numeric = values to just parse the KID strings as an integer?
 
Alternatively, if there are arguments agains that, maybe it = would be possible to have some sort of sub-options (e.g. = KID=3DNUM:<num> and = KID=3DSTR:<string>)


I=E2=80=99m ok either way. My = primary motivation is that I think KID should have a max length defined = in the standards. I don=E2=80=99t care if its 64-bytes, or 256-bytes, or = something otherwise reasonable. Allowing it for arbitrary length makes = implementations less efficient and likely, error prone. Yes, I=E2=80=99m = painfully aware that the RFCs for HTTP and URLs do not impose a max-URL = length, but that=E2=80=99s not an excuse for us making things worse = :).

I understand that the CDNs at = play can put whatever restrictions in as they like, but that also makes = for iffy interops IMO.

Cheers,

=E2=80=94= leif

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T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I6SAxUsGCCpt for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from fromintouta.tno.nl (fromintouta.tno.nl [134.221.1.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2701A0636 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 00:36:40 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.09,440,1418079600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="36898875" Received: from exc-cashub01.tsn.tno.nl (HELO mail.tno.nl) ([134.221.225.220]) by mailhost1a.tno.nl with ESMTP; 21 Jan 2015 09:36:39 +0100 Received: from EXC-MBX03.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::e969:1300:fb9f:7e12]) by EXC-CASHUB01.tsn.tno.nl ([fe80::b855:be6:1aa8:4d0f%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 09:36:38 +0100 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: Leif Hedstrom Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft Thread-Index: AdAq1NUsu44yS7ZcRyqN6LqOMZhzcwJvIaKQAA3JYQAAIxRGMA== Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:36:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9CAD20F3-3779-4494-AC38-8C3ECF6536C5@ogre.com> In-Reply-To: <9CAD20F3-3779-4494-AC38-8C3ECF6536C5@ogre.com> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FCC100FC8D6B034CB88CD8173B2DA1582039059EEXCMBX03tsntnon_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Key ID options for URI Signing draft X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 08:36:44 -0000 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Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:38:43 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.160]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:38:43 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Rob Murray Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHQI101OzwNnisusk+1NxaojQCVBQ== Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:38:43 +0000 Message-ID: <70FF5D89-A88C-49A6-84C1-D885968C8C71@cisco.com> References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.161.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: [CDNi] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-05.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:38:46 -0000 Hi Rob, >=20 > On 29/12/2014 12:51, "Rob Murray" wrote: >=20 >> Hi all, I've posted a new version of the Triggers draft to address >> comments from Ray and Francois - detailed replies to those two sets of >> comments are below. Thanks for addressing all my comments. All resolutions are fine by me. To the question you raised: >>=20 >>> *** 5.1.1 >>> =B3A JSON array of S=B2 >>> Does the term =B3array=B2 have a completely specified meaning? >>=20 >> I believe so, it's a JSON term defined in section 5 of RFC 7159 ... do >> you think it needs a specific reference? It=92s your call. Personnally I would put a reference so it faciliates reading of the documen= t by non JSON experts (Yes, those do still exist ). Francois=