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XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (xch-rcd-019.cisco.com [173.37.102.29]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA183B9M014690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 Nov 2015 08:03:11 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:03:10 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Sun, 1 Nov 2015 02:03:10 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Niven-Jenkins Ben Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Jon's commet on draft-ietf-cdni-redirection Thread-Index: AQHRB0SSU1fBLbHcR0ui623Eoke45J5/ZEgpgAfpPgA= Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 08:03:10 +0000 Message-ID: <6DF9C32E-A750-4CF6-A613-489225FC5042@cisco.com> References: <73F3A4F6-FC5D-4BC8-BEEC-82F27BA3641F@tno.nl> <102272CE-9EF0-4959-B9E2-8A2F10147BF7@cisco.com> <853CC284-D147-4A1F-8C47-213775F47768@cisco.com> 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(Ray) van" To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New revision of draft-brandenburg-cdni-uri-signing-for-has-01 Thread-Index: AQHRFUontEBTWRAFMEmQRdVx3rpoDw== Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:40:39 +0000 Message-ID: <718CA6CC-AC88-4FE6-B6CF-2BF6E0AEE74C@tno.nl> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.151008 x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5BFA091F7D0A11499DB24596AF8CCF08@tno.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: [CDNi] New revision of draft-brandenburg-cdni-uri-signing-for-has-01 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:40:45 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJJ3ZlIGp1c3QgdXBsb2FkZWQgYSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBkcmFmdC1icmFu ZGVuYnVyZy1jZG5pLXVyaS1zaWduaW5nLWZvci1oYXMuIA0KDQpUaGlzIC0wMSByZXZpc2lvbiBp bmNsdWRlcyBzb21lIGltcHJvdmVtZW50cyB0byB0aGUgUGF0aCBQYXR0ZXJuIGVsZW1lbnQgdG8g bWFrZSBpdCBtb3JlIGZsZXhpYmxlLiANCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KDQpSYXkgDQoNCg0KDQpPbiAwMi8x MS8xNSAwOTozMiwgImludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0Bp ZXRmLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj4NCj5BIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtYnJhbmRl bmJ1cmctY2RuaS11cmktc2lnbmluZy1mb3ItaGFzLTAxLnR4dA0KPmhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3Nm dWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgUmF5IHZhbiBCcmFuZGVuYnVyZyBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZQ0K PklFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCj4NCj5OYW1lOgkJZHJhZnQtYnJhbmRlbmJ1cmctY2RuaS11cmkt c2lnbmluZy1mb3ItaGFzDQo+UmV2aXNpb246CTAxDQo+VGl0bGU6CQlVUkkgU2lnbmluZyBmb3Ig SFRUUCBBZGFwdGl2ZSBTdHJlYW1pbmcgKEhBUykNCj5Eb2N1bWVudCBkYXRlOgkyMDE1LTExLTAy DQo+R3JvdXA6CQlJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCj5QYWdlczoJCTI0DQo+VVJMOiAgICAg ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC1icmFuZGVu YnVyZy1jZG5pLXVyaS1zaWduaW5nLWZvci1oYXMtMDEudHh0DQo+U3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgIGh0 dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LWJyYW5kZW5idXJnLWNkbmktdXJp LXNpZ25pbmctZm9yLWhhcy8NCj5IdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWJyYW5kZW5idXJnLWNkbmktdXJpLXNpZ25pbmctZm9yLWhhcy0wMQ0KPkRp ZmY6ICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtYnJh bmRlbmJ1cmctY2RuaS11cmktc2lnbmluZy1mb3ItaGFzLTAxDQo+DQo+QWJzdHJhY3Q6DQo+ICAg VGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZWZpbmVzIGFuIGV4dGVuc2lvbiB0byB0aGUgVVJJIFNpZ25pbmcgbWVj aGFuaXNtDQo+ICAgc3BlY2lmaWVkIGluIFtJLUQuaWV0Zi1jZG5pLXVyaS1zaWduaW5nXSB0aGF0 IGFsbG93cyBmb3IgVVJJIFNpZ25pbmcNCj4gICBvZiBjb250ZW50IGRlbGl2ZXJlZCB2aWEgSFRU UCBBZGFwdGl2ZSBTdHJlYW1pbmcgcHJvdG9jb2xzIHN1Y2ggYXMNCj4gICBNUEVHIERBU0ggb3Ig SExTLg0KPg0KPiAgIFRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCBtZWNoYW5pc20gaXMgYXBwbGljYWJsZSB0byBib3Ro IENETkkgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBzaW5nbGUNCj4gICBDRE4gZW52aXJvbm1lbnRzLg0KPg0KPlRoZSBJ RVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo+DQpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24g dGhhdCBpcyBub3QgaW50ZW5kZWQgZm9yIHlvdS4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGFkZHJlc3Nl ZSBvciBpZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ugd2FzIHNlbnQgdG8geW91IGJ5IG1pc3Rha2UsIHlvdSBhcmUg cmVxdWVzdGVkIHRvIGluZm9ybSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UuIFRO TyBhY2NlcHRzIG5vIGxpYWJpbGl0eSBmb3IgdGhlIGNvbnRlbnQgb2YgdGhpcyBlLW1haWwsIGZv ciB0aGUgbWFubmVyIGluIHdoaWNoIHlvdSB1c2UgaXQgYW5kIGZvciBkYW1hZ2Ugb2YgYW55IGtp bmQgcmVzdWx0aW5nIGZyb20gdGhlIHJpc2tzIGluaGVyZW50IHRvIHRoZSBlbGVjdHJvbmljIHRy YW5zbWlzc2lvbiBvZiBtZXNzYWdlcy4K From nobody Mon Nov 2 18:06:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C623E1AC41F for ; 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(Ray) van" , Leif Hedstrom , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review: draft-ietf-cdni-uri-signing-05 Thread-Index: AQHRB7akPLGljb1UyUm0EVpGoleAhp5uY/YAgBs1LIA= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 02:06:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6D3CDBC6-0001-4D07-B047-2FCB6B676800@ogre.com> <53C26554-463B-4FC4-ADC1-60776F41B91F@tno.nl> In-Reply-To: <53C26554-463B-4FC4-ADC1-60776F41B91F@tno.nl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.15.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] Review: draft-ietf-cdni-uri-signing-05 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 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(Ray) van" , Leif Hedstrom , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review: draft-ietf-cdni-uri-signing-05 Thread-Index: AQHRB7akPLGljb1UyUm0EVpGoleAhp5uY/YAgBs1LICAABDGoA== Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 02:13:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6D3CDBC6-0001-4D07-B047-2FCB6B676800@ogre.com> <53C26554-463B-4FC4-ADC1-60776F41B91F@tno.nl> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.15.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] Review: draft-ietf-cdni-uri-signing-05 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 02:13:45 -0000 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IHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlLiBUTk8gYWNjZXB0cyBubyBsaWFiaWxpdHkg Zm9yIHRoZSBjb250ZW50IG9mIHRoaXMgZS1tYWlsLCBmb3IgdGhlIG1hbm5lciBpbiB3aGljaCB5 b3UgdXNlIGl0IGFuZCBmb3IgZGFtYWdlIG9mIGFueSBraW5kIHJlc3VsdGluZyBmcm9tIHRoZSBy aXNrcyBpbmhlcmVudCB0byB0aGUgZWxlY3Ryb25pYyB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gb2YgbWVzc2FnZXMu DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KQ0ROaSBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkNETmlAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vY2RuaQ0K From nobody Mon Nov 2 20:19:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietf.org Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45D21B2CBF; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 20:12:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Liaison Statement Management Tool To: "Daryl Malas" , "Kevin Ma" , "Francois Le Faucheur" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:12:27 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:19:11 -0800 Cc: Ben Campbell , Stephan Wenger , Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List , Watanabe Shinji , Barry Leiba Subject: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 04:12:28 -0000 Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing Submission Date: 2015-11-02 URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1434/ From: (Shinji Watanabe ) To: (Francois Le Faucheur ,Daryl Malas ,Kevin Ma ) Cc: Response Contacts: Watanabe Shinji Technical Contacts: Purpose: For information Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the new draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document specifically addresses the use case of segmented content in the context of URI Signing. MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we had several comments and observations that MPEG experts would like to share with the IETF CDNI working group. MPEG welcome comments and feedback on the reported progress. Integrated workflow MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following steps for the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and client authentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme is the Online Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly available online). 1. The service provider choses a given client authentication and authorisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The application around the DASH client takes care of implementing the protocol in order to successfully receive the MPD. 2. The initial segment access token is provided either in the HTTP response of the MPD or within the MPD itself. 3. The MPD contains appropriate instructions which signal to the DASH client where the segment access token must be extracted from, e.g. either from HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, this signalling instructs the DASH client to insert this segment token back in segment requests as a query string parameter. Note that MPEG included this generic mechanism of transparent parameter passing in an ongoing amendment of MPEG DASH part 1. This document should reach publication in the course of 2016. 4. The segment access token is not meant to be validated by the authorization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an easily scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts acknowledged the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to the Path Pattern defined in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a result, the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil the identified requirements and will be considered for further work. Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft. Long-term tokens (into sentences) Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segments, where long-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to enforce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed Token at every request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to know the opinion of the IETF CDNI working group on this scenario and whether the validation mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by signalling when the CDN must regenerate a new URI Signed Token. Name collision MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a query string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a normative aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would like to know whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the appropriate approach to prevent name collision. Consecutive tokens According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft, the server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive HTTP requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency between the tokens. Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token issued prior to time t ? MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the above observations and welcome further collaboration on this topic. Our future meetings: - DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Diego, CA - The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, San Diego, CA Attachments: 29n153811 https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.doc 29n153811 htm https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.htm From nobody Mon Nov 2 23:34:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCE81A0181 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:34:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, 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([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:34:28 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Ma Kevin Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-20.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCCYtZN2FUjWu80SRxpX0BBm7lQ== Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:34:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151016152010.14346.9523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.162] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <32823134E7DC76458F14CB181AC75E1D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-20.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:34:32 -0000 SGkgS2V2aW4sDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlc2UgY29tbWVudHMuIA0KDQpJIGhhdmUgaW5jbHVk ZWQgYWxsIHRoZSBlZGl0b3JpYWwgY29ycmVjdGlvbnMgaW4gdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgY29weS4NCg0K SSB3aWxsIGRpc2N1c3Mgc2VwYXJhdGVseSB0aGUgbm9uLWVkaXRvcmlhbCBjb21tZW50IHJlZ2Fy ZGluZyBjaG9pY2Ugb2YgbWFwcGluZyBhbGdvcml0aG0uDQoNClRoYW5rcw0KDQpGcmFuY29pcw0K DQoNCj4gT24gMTcgT2N0IDIwMTUsIGF0IDA1OjU0LCBLZXZpbiBNYSBKIDxrZXZpbi5qLm1hQGVy aWNzc29uLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBIaSBGcmFuY29pcywNCj4gDQo+ICBDb21tZW50cyBh bmQgbml0cyBvbiB0aGUgdXBkYXRlZCB0ZXh0IGJlbG93Lg0KPiANCj4gdGhhbnguDQo+IA0KPiAt LSAgS2V2aW4gSi4gTWENCj4gDQo+IGdlbmVyYWw6DQo+IA0KPiAgLSBUaGVyZXMgYW4gaW5jb25z aXN0ZW5jeSBpbiB1c2Ugb2YgImUuZy4gIiB2cyAiZS5nLiwgIi4gIFNob3VsZCBkbyBhIGZpbmQt YW5kLXJlcGxhY2UgdG8gdXNlIHRoZSBsYXR0ZXI/DQo+IA0KPiAgLSBUaGVyZXMgYW4gaW5jb25z 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X19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+IENETmkgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Pj4gQ0ROaUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vY2RuaQ0KPj4gDQo+PiBfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gQ0ROaSBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IENETmlAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vY2RuaQ0KDQo= From nobody Mon Nov 2 23:53:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7231A0033 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:53:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7TJyKcDEZzew for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5F4B1ACEDE for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from cpc4-cmbg17-2-0-cust814.5-4.cable.virginm.net ([86.14.227.47] helo=[192.168.0.10]) by smtp04.mailcore.me with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ZtWPO-000CC7-9n; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:53:34 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:53:32 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Archived-At: Cc: Watanabe Shinji Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:53:39 -0000 Colleagues, My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline > On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool = wrote: >=20 > Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing >=20 > Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the new = draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document = specifically addresses the use case of segmented content in the context = of URI Signing. MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI = Signing extension for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we = had several comments and observations that MPEG experts would like to = share with the IETF CDNI working group. MPEG welcome comments and = feedback on the reported progress. >=20 > Integrated workflow > MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following steps for = the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and = client authentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme = is the Online Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly = available online). >=20 > 1. The service provider choses a given client authentication and = authorisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The application = around the DASH client takes care of implementing the protocol in order = to successfully receive the MPD. > 2. The initial segment access token is provided either in the HTTP = response of the MPD or within the MPD itself.=20 > 3. The MPD contains appropriate instructions which signal to the = DASH client where the segment access token must be extracted from, e.g. = either from HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, this = signalling instructs the DASH client to insert this segment token back = in segment requests as a query string parameter. Note that MPEG included = this generic mechanism of transparent parameter passing in an ongoing = amendment of MPEG DASH part 1. This document should reach publication in = the course of 2016. I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, e.g. on = the MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s a = better option than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80=99= t have to do anything special to have the token inserted on every = request as the HTTP stack will do that as part of HTTP. *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers on = browsers or clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to = the rest of the app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something = like insert the token into the request using special client handling = anyway, you could do the same for a cookie and have the benefit of only = having to do it once rather than once per segment. > 4. The segment access token is not meant to be validated by the = authorization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an easily = scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts = acknowledged the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to the Path = Pattern defined in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a = result, the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil the = identified requirements and will be considered for further work. >=20 >=20 > Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI Signing = for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft. >=20 > Long-term tokens (into sentences) > Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segments, where = long-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this = scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to = enforce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed = Token at every request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to = know the opinion of the IETF CDNI working group on this scenario and = whether the validation mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by signalling = when the CDN must regenerate a new URI Signed Token. A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m not = completely certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long time = in which a token could be passed to someone else, which drove the idea = of changing the token from the CDN side on every segment which reduces = the exposure time to the minimum possible. It seems that what MPEG is = asking for is the ability to tune the exposure time. IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m wondering = why someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating tokens is = pretty cheap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA hash = function. I think it also increases the implementation complexity = significantly. With a long use single token or with re-writing the token = on every segment the CDN can process each request independently. With a = token that changes after a variable number of segments, the CDN now = needs to keep state about how many times it has seen the token already = and needs to co-ordinate that state across the CDN in case some of the = requests go to different surrogates, etc.=20 It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit IMO. =20 > Name collision > MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a query = string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a = normative aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would = like to know whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the = appropriate approach to prevent name collision. >=20 > Consecutive tokens > According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft, the = server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive HTTP = requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency between the = tokens. Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not = invalidate a token issued prior to time t ? In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are completely = independent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token = issued prior to time t. Ben >=20 >=20 > MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the above = observations and welcome further collaboration on this topic. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Our future meetings: > - DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Diego, CA > - The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, San Diego, CA >=20 >=20 > Attachments: >=20 > 29n153811 > = https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-j= tc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.d= oc >=20 > 29n153811 htm > = https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-j= tc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.h= tm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Mon Nov 2 23:55:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A50C1B29D1 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:55:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HuXQ4R21OU-M for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:55:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D99C1B2DD0 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:55:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5170; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1446537319; 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bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:55:17 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-RCD-018.cisco.com (173.37.102.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:55:17 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:55:17 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Ma Kevin Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-20.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCCYtZN2FUjWu80SRxpX0BBm7lQ== Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:55:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8F86EE36-E455-4386-9503-6285C0E7069D@cisco.com> References: <20151016152010.14346.9523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.162] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8574912C1DA5BE47A76CCFF971F46812@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-20.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 07:55:20 -0000 S2V2aW4gYW5kIGFsbCwNCg0KKGFzIGFuIGF1dGhvcikNCg0KUmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoZSBjb21tZW50 IGJlbG93IGFib3V0IG1hcHBpbmcgYWxnb3JpdGhtOg0KDQpJbiBsaW5lIHdpdGggaG93IHdlIGhh dmUgZGVhbHQgd2l0aCBzaW1pbGFyIHNpdHVhdGlvbnMgYmVmb3JlLCBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBtYXhp bWlzZSB0aGUgbGlrZWxpaG9vZCBvZiBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IGJldHdlZW4gdHdvIGluZGVw ZW5kZW50IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9ucywgSSB3b3VsZCByZWNvbW1lbmQgdGhhdDoNCiAgKiB3ZSBk ZWZpbmUgb25lICJNYW5kYXRvcnkgdG8gSW1wbGVtZW504oCdIGFsZ29yaXRobSAoYmFzZWQgb24g 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internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151103080546.14512.71535.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 00:05:46 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:05:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Working Group of the IETF. Title : CDNI Logging Interface Authors : Francois Le Faucheur Gilles Bertrand Iuniana Oprescu Roy Peterkofsky Filename : draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21.txt Pages : 57 Date : 2015-11-03 Abstract: This memo specifies the Logging interface between a downstream CDN (dCDN) and an upstream CDN (uCDN) that are interconnected as per the CDN Interconnection (CDNI) framework. First, it describes a reference model for CDNI logging. Then, it specifies the CDNI Logging File format and the actual protocol for exchange of CDNI Logging Files. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-logging/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 3 00:16:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0F71B2F51 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:15:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CD2WqY0vH01i for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 317CC1B2F4F for ; 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03 Nov 2015 08:15:54 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (xch-aln-019.cisco.com [173.36.7.29]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tA38Fs0f031957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:15:54 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (173.36.7.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 02:15:53 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 02:15:53 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFg8Zf2t6jwVMYE6mfhoeftZoqJ6KWCwA Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:15:53 +0000 Message-ID: <181986CF-16F7-488C-87AC-025136113376@cisco.com> References: <20151103080546.14512.71535.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151103080546.14512.71535.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.70.230.162] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:58:31 +0100 From: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" To: Ben Niven-Jenkins , "Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" Thread-Index: AQHRFgzE07EebfBgVEaoXgsI0igKaJ6J/4aA Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 08:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3862FEAC-05EE-490B-94AD-3B8C9A5D6CD3@tno.nl> References: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, nl-NL Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.151008 x-originating-ip: [134.221.225.191] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Cc: Watanabe Shinji Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list 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X19fX19fX19fXw0KPkNETmkgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Q0ROaUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vY2RuaQ0KVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIG1heSBjb250 YWluIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgaXMgbm90IGludGVuZGVkIGZvciB5b3UuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUg bm90IHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzZWUgb3IgaWYgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIHdhcyBzZW50IHRvIHlvdSBieSBt aXN0YWtlLCB5b3UgYXJlIHJlcXVlc3RlZCB0byBpbmZvcm0gdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRl IHRoZSBtZXNzYWdlLiBUTk8gYWNjZXB0cyBubyBsaWFiaWxpdHkgZm9yIHRoZSBjb250ZW50IG9m IHRoaXMgZS1tYWlsLCBmb3IgdGhlIG1hbm5lciBpbiB3aGljaCB5b3UgdXNlIGl0IGFuZCBmb3Ig ZGFtYWdlIG9mIGFueSBraW5kIHJlc3VsdGluZyBmcm9tIHRoZSByaXNrcyBpbmhlcmVudCB0byB0 aGUgZWxlY3Ryb25pYyB0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gb2YgbWVzc2FnZXMuCg== From nobody Tue Nov 3 01:25:46 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C44261B3098 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:25:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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14.03.0248.002; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:25:39 -0500 From: Kevin Ma J To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-logging-20.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCCY3lWk/UJNjKUaDYEiJLzjrAJ5ukE4AgAAIBmCAG8UmgP//xW1G Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:25:38 +0000 Message-ID: <68CA94BF-8D25-4305-BD74-F152E3F53F3E@ericsson.com> References: <20151016152010.14346.9523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , <8F86EE36-E455-4386-9503-6285C0E7069D@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8F86EE36-E455-4386-9503-6285C0E7069D@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoK6xgEWYwYUeC4uns/+wWvxbcJrJ gcljyu+NrB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mro+NbPXHBavmJp93bmBsbNEl2MnBwSAiYS C05tYYKwxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcIRR4vjU/0wQzjJGiVtvLjGDVLEJaEk8/voXrENEwEpi9cNm 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Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 3, 2015, at 4:55 PM, Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) wrote: >=20 > Kevin and all, >=20 > (as an author) >=20 > Regarding the comment below about mapping algorithm: >=20 > In line with how we have dealt with similar situations before, in order t= o maximise the likelihood of interoperability between two independent imple= mentations, I would recommend that: > * we define one "Mandatory to Implement=94 algorithm (based on what is d= iscussed in the current text), so that all implementations have at least on= e algorithm in common > * we leave it to uCDN and dCDN to decide and agree on which one they use= . i.e. they can use the "Mandatory to Implement=94 algorithm or they can us= e another one. In other words, the "Mandatory to Implement=94 algorithm is = not "Mandatory to use=94. >=20 > Please let us know asap if you have comments/concerns about that approach= . >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Francois >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> - "one example way to achieve this is to hash the address with a shared = secret that is pre-synchronised and rotated at a predefined time interval" >> "The encryption algorithm must also be defined," >>=20 >> I found this to be a bit confusing. I think of a hash as being a one-= way function, but encryption as being reversible. I believe we agreed that= either a hash or encryption would work, but that encryption provided the a= bility to get back the IP address if necessary. We might want to make that= more clear. Do we only want to suggest encryption? >>=20 >> I found the subsequent text that lists hashing and encryption algorith= ms compounded my confusion since the hashing algorithms are only intended t= o be used for generating key material, as opposed to being used to generate= the id. >>=20 >> "they agree on the salt and input key material, as described in [RFC58= 69], Section 2.2, the hash mechanism to use (SHA-2 or SHA-3 SHOULD be used)= ," >> "The encryption algorithm must also be defined, and SHOULD be 128-bit = AES-GCM or better." >>=20 >> I think it would be helpful to separate key generation from generating= the id. The following feels a little clearer and more concise to me: >>=20 >> "the element identifying the client is algorithmically >> generated (from the client IPv4 or IPv6 address in the >> request received by the Surrogate and/or other network-level >> identifying information) in a way that SHOULD NOT be >> linkable back to the global addressing context and that >> SHOULD vary over time (to offer protection against long term >> attacks); one way to achieve this is to either hash or encrypt the >> address with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised and >> rotated at a predefined time interval. It is RECOMMENDED >> that the mapping varies at least once every 24 hours. If >> the client IPv4 or IPv6 address or other network-level >> identifying information needs to be recoverable, encryption >> should be used rather than a one-way hashing algorithm. >> The mapping from IP address to the element identifying the >> client SHOULD be done using a symmetric key that is known only >> to both the uCDN and dCDN. (One method of selecting a key is >> to use an analog of HKDF [RFC5869], as will be used in TLS 1.3 >> [I-D.ietf-tls-rfc5246-bis]).=20 >> When the two CDNs set up a relationship, they agree >> out-of-band on a mapping between IPv4 and IPv6 addresses and >> aggregates and on the algorithmic mapping from IPv4/IPv6 >> addresses and the element identifying the client. >> They agree on the salt and input key material, any >> algorithms used in key generation (e.g., SHA-256), and the key >> lifetime which SHOULD NOT exceed 25 hours (shorter lifetimes >> MAY be used). At the expiration of the agreed-upon lifetime, >> a new key is used." >=20 From nobody Tue Nov 3 03:19:59 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4104D1B3220 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 03:19:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8zlPcfuLjUJ for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 03:19:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA13E1ACD85 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 03:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from dab-rcn1-h-86-7.dab.02.net ([82.132.246.240] helo=[10.5.54.212]) by smtp04.mailcore.me with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1ZtZc0-00046y-C6; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:19:54 +0000 References: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <3862FEAC-05EE-490B-94AD-3B8C9A5D6CD3@tno.nl> In-Reply-To: <3862FEAC-05EE-490B-94AD-3B8C9A5D6CD3@tno.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Message-Id: <7C569AF8-E5CE-4C10-9056-03497D3A6AAB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13B143) From: Ben Niven-Jenkins Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 11:18:42 +0000 To: "Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van" X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Archived-At: Cc: Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List , Watanabe Shinji Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:19:58 -0000 Ray, I wouldn't signal to the CDN whether it should expect the token in a cookie o= r a query param, if it was me I'd spec it so the CDN has to support both and= a rule for which of cookie or query param to use if both are present. Ben > On 3 Nov 2015, at 08:58, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I've added my comments below. >=20 > Ray >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 03/11/15 08:53, "CDNi on behalf of Ben Niven-Jenkins" wrote: >>=20 >> Colleagues, >>=20 >> My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool wrote: >>>=20 >>> Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing >>>=20 >>> Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the new draft "= URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document specifically address= es the use case of segmented content in the context of URI Signing. MPEG exp= erts progressed regarding the integration of URI Signing extension for segme= nted content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we had several comments and observa= tions that MPEG experts would like to share with the IETF CDNI working group= . MPEG welcome comments and feedback on the reported progress. >>>=20 >>> Integrated workflow >>> MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following steps for t= he integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and client aut= hentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme is the Online= Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly available online). >>>=20 >>> 1. The service provider choses a given client authentication and auth= orisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The application around th= e DASH client takes care of implementing the protocol in order to successful= ly receive the MPD. >>> 2. The initial segment access token is provided either in the HTTP re= sponse of the MPD or within the MPD itself.=20 >>> 3. The MPD contains appropriate instructions which signal to the DASH= client where the segment access token must be extracted from, e.g. either f= rom HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, this signalling instructs= the DASH client to insert this segment token back in segment requests as a q= uery string parameter. Note that MPEG included this generic mechanism of tra= nsparent parameter passing in an ongoing amendment of MPEG DASH part 1. This= document should reach publication in the course of 2016. >>=20 >> I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, e.g. on t= he MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s a better op= tion than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80=99t have to d= o anything special to have the token inserted on every request as the HTTP s= tack will do that as part of HTTP. >>=20 >> *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers on browser= s or clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to the rest of t= he app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something like insert the t= oken into the request using special client handling anyway, you could do the= same for a cookie and have the benefit of only having to do it once rather t= han once per segment. >=20 > Agreed.=20 >=20 > My feeling is you'd want both a cookie-based as well as a query parameter-= based solution. The cookie-based version for legacy clients, and a query-bas= ed version in cases where cookie's don't work. In the uri-signing-for-HAS dr= aft I've added a flag to allow the CDN/CSP to communicate which mechanism sh= ould be applied. >=20 >>=20 >>> 4. The segment access token is not meant to be validated by the autho= rization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an easily scalable and s= tateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts acknowledged the need of a pa= rameter functionally equivalent to the Path Pattern defined in the URI Signi= ng for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a result, the URI Signing for HTTP Adapti= ve Streaming seems to fulfil the identified requirements and will be conside= red for further work. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI Signing for H= TTP Adaptive Streaming draft. >>>=20 >>> Long-term tokens (into sentences) >>> Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segments, where l= ong-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this scenario, a= dditional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to enforce client aut= hentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed Token at every request m= ay seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to know the opinion of the IETF= CDNI working group on this scenario and whether the validation mechanism co= uld be adapted, e.g. by signalling when the CDN must regenerate a new URI Si= gned Token. >>=20 >> A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m not complet= ely certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long time in which a t= oken could be passed to someone else, which drove the idea of changing the t= oken from the CDN side on every segment which reduces the exposure time to t= he minimum possible. It seems that what MPEG is asking for is the ability to= tune the exposure time. >>=20 >> IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m wondering wh= y someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating tokens is pretty ch= eap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA hash function. I think it= also increases the implementation complexity significantly. With a long use= single token or with re-writing the token on every segment the CDN can proc= ess each request independently. With a token that changes after a variable n= umber of segments, the CDN now needs to keep state about how many times it h= as seen the token already and needs to co-ordinate that state across the CDN= in case some of the requests go to different surrogates, etc. >>=20 >> It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit IMO. >=20 > Fully agree. >=20 > (One way to implement it would be to have some sort of Expiration Time Thr= eshold to indicate when the CDN should refresh the token, but that would res= ult in all kinds of issues, such as effectively having variable token length= s which will cause issues in cases of prolonged pause) >=20 >>=20 >>> Name collision >>> MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a query stri= ng, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a normative aspe= ct of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would like to know whether= the IETF CDNI working group has decided the appropriate approach to prevent= name collision. >=20 > The current base URI signing spec already allows overriding the URISigning= Package query string parameter based on e.g. Metadata. In case of DASH, and c= lients having to know this name, I think the best solution would be to just c= onvey it in the MPD. >=20 >>>=20 >>> Consecutive tokens >>> According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft, the serv= er may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive HTTP requests= . It does not seem that there is a dependency between the tokens. Could IETF= expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token is= sued prior to time t ? >>=20 >> In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are completely i= ndependent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token issued p= rior to time t. >=20 > Agreed. Apart from having to keep and synchronise state across nodes, I do= n't see how you could even implement it.=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Ben >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the above obser= vations and welcome further collaboration on this topic. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Our future meetings: >>> - DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Diego, CA >>> - The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, San Diego, CA >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Attachments: >>>=20 >>> 29n153811 >>> https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-ie= c-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.= doc >>>=20 >>> 29n153811 htm >>> https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-ie= c-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.= htm >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CDNi mailing list >>> CDNi@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you a= re not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are r= equested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liabili= ty for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and fo= r damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic tra= nsmission of messages. From nobody Tue Nov 3 04:21:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752081B32C8 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:21:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UFnx-utnYggU for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:21:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D746C1B32CE for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by wmff134 with SMTP id f134so13269084wmf.0 for ; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 04:21:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gryning_com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Y1nqst5STIAH+KfvVio94ULKzj+ypdkr08P2NDB+jTE=; b=0XA42cpcsBwJ9NL/FwKJrlD9bB99JK21zJQLEGEQ0cjVZQyd1PCvEMZHf2LK362RmG DrCshJRIKaSsDqXhboe37/XWj7RvLse0exJPtjfUkgjlBBhJANVnig0vMjbMz+H18eKk s47ZbOIKIRv150ipzUcQpgYTLIKjoaSO5kwQsmwwnZT5EMZJQKOO1XfY0k9/cosgWXJD hs/Kgk9lpmq572pzQTpF32ddekikdWgYolU0LMcESTF55wGdNm6LPqwoJ0zTgaLpeOdO hna/DXKQ9mccffq2cn8AhkkiX0mNjoXhVxLKoDhvxfcZg9iybjVaRcIA5mL9/96ev04Y rMuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Y1nqst5STIAH+KfvVio94ULKzj+ypdkr08P2NDB+jTE=; b=b+HT0QbURax/+/f7WxZFnsZaKmqP9e0VwwGs1NiczR3aUydlrED04fiKvNUyfmMS9Y XIM2sAcZTM8c+dqA0fMOjq6FH0w7yFSKfIGLB7T36+qXrrN9jz9C48YdhEGstxStsCFV +cLRnyuZJ4KaRzpA+X5O36VnlvDY/UxMEWZJDuWRkc6Vpg+Qn1LECtAraRXMlZV+s+8U 8F39bQMI3mhoY55OuwGxHc44vm5gACTP8HyQuQX/bfY+2cKZr4NzDczkT2bpmRnXahMH 3Fsp4HBR7gzo06WYWXmG5JRRFQuV6FpAlEX8VSrKdr3n+ZctcCIKLp3+QePMjO2Nv58o ZShA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlCdHzh4xe0FpgqCqG8F4xzyTMaTk2Jv+g+XELyvPMplTOfuuumD8PrD/nvQwpdHXvq7FtB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.28.6.142 with SMTP id 136mr20321267wmg.9.1446553277321; Tue, 03 Nov 2015 04:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.28.171.86 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:21:16 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [133.93.28.232] Received: by 10.28.171.86 with HTTP; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:21:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7C569AF8-E5CE-4C10-9056-03497D3A6AAB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <3862FEAC-05EE-490B-94AD-3B8C9A5D6CD3@tno.nl> <7C569AF8-E5CE-4C10-9056-03497D3A6AAB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:21:16 +0900 Message-ID: From: "c^" To: Ben Niven-Jenkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114427063ea94e0523a1ee50 Archived-At: Cc: Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List , Watanabe Shinji Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:21:26 -0000 --001a114427063ea94e0523a1ee50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cookie use also creates other dependencies when using MSE such as crossdomain/CORS which can be problematic in certain deployments. Query string based is more portable... WRT generating tokens being 'cheap'; consider the flash crowds associated with news events on live streams. Token generation in these circumstance is very different to the moderate peak:mean in on-demand video workflows. The trade off being an extended time limited token being 'good enough'... I can go into some of these considerations further off list... CraigT -- c%5e On 3 Nov 2015 20:20, "Ben Niven-Jenkins" wrote: > Ray, > > I wouldn't signal to the CDN whether it should expect the token in a > cookie or a query param, if it was me I'd spec it so the CDN has to suppo= rt > both and a rule for which of cookie or query param to use if both are > present. > > Ben > > > On 3 Nov 2015, at 08:58, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van < > ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've added my comments below. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > >> On 03/11/15 08:53, "CDNi on behalf of Ben Niven-Jenkins" < > cdni-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote: > >> > >> Colleagues, > >> > >> My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline > >> > >> > >>> On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool < > lsmt@ietf.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing > >>> > >>> Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the new > draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document specifical= ly > addresses the use case of segmented content in the context of URI Signing= . > MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI Signing extensio= n > for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we had several comments > and observations that MPEG experts would like to share with the IETF CDNI > working group. MPEG welcome comments and feedback on the reported progres= s. > >>> > >>> Integrated workflow > >>> MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following steps fo= r > the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and client > authentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme is the > Online Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly available online= ). > >>> > >>> 1. The service provider choses a given client authentication and > authorisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The application > around the DASH client takes care of implementing the protocol in order t= o > successfully receive the MPD. > >>> 2. The initial segment access token is provided either in the HTTP > response of the MPD or within the MPD itself. > >>> 3. The MPD contains appropriate instructions which signal to the > DASH client where the segment access token must be extracted from, e.g. > either from HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, this signallin= g > instructs the DASH client to insert this segment token back in segment > requests as a query string parameter. Note that MPEG included this generi= c > mechanism of transparent parameter passing in an ongoing amendment of MPE= G > DASH part 1. This document should reach publication in the course of 2016= . > >> > >> I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, e.g. o= n > the MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s a bette= r option > than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80=99t have to do= anything > special to have the token inserted on every request as the HTTP stack wil= l > do that as part of HTTP. > >> > >> *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers on brow= sers or > clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to the rest of the > app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something like insert the t= oken into > the request using special client handling anyway, you could do the same f= or > a cookie and have the benefit of only having to do it once rather than on= ce > per segment. > > > > Agreed. > > > > My feeling is you'd want both a cookie-based as well as a query > parameter-based solution. The cookie-based version for legacy clients, an= d > a query-based version in cases where cookie's don't work. In the > uri-signing-for-HAS draft I've added a flag to allow the CDN/CSP to > communicate which mechanism should be applied. > > > >> > >>> 4. The segment access token is not meant to be validated by the > authorization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an easily > scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts acknowledged > the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to the Path Pattern defin= ed > in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a result, the URI > Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil the identified > requirements and will be considered for further work. > >>> > >>> > >>> Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI Signing > for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft. > >>> > >>> Long-term tokens (into sentences) > >>> Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segments, wher= e > long-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this > scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to > enforce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed Tok= en > at every request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to know th= e > opinion of the IETF CDNI working group on this scenario and whether the > validation mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by signalling when the CDN mu= st > regenerate a new URI Signed Token. > >> > >> A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m not comp= letely > certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long time in which a > token could be passed to someone else, which drove the idea of changing t= he > token from the CDN side on every segment which reduces the exposure time = to > the minimum possible. It seems that what MPEG is asking for is the abilit= y > to tune the exposure time. > >> > >> IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m wondering= why > someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating tokens is pretty > cheap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA hash function. I thi= nk it also > increases the implementation complexity significantly. With a long use > single token or with re-writing the token on every segment the CDN can > process each request independently. With a token that changes after a > variable number of segments, the CDN now needs to keep state about how ma= ny > times it has seen the token already and needs to co-ordinate that state > across the CDN in case some of the requests go to different surrogates, e= tc. > >> > >> It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit IMO. > > > > Fully agree. > > > > (One way to implement it would be to have some sort of Expiration Time > Threshold to indicate when the CDN should refresh the token, but that wou= ld > result in all kinds of issues, such as effectively having variable token > lengths which will cause issues in cases of prolonged pause) > > > >> > >>> Name collision > >>> MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a query > string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a normati= ve > aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would like to know > whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the appropriate approach = to > prevent name collision. > > > > The current base URI signing spec already allows overriding the > URISigningPackage query string parameter based on e.g. Metadata. In case = of > DASH, and clients having to know this name, I think the best solution wou= ld > be to just convey it in the MPD. > > > >>> > >>> Consecutive tokens > >>> According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft, the > server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive HTTP > requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency between the tokens. > Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not invalida= te > a token issued prior to time t ? > >> > >> In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are completel= y > independent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token issu= ed > prior to time t. > > > > Agreed. Apart from having to keep and synchronise state across nodes, I > don't see how you could even implement it. > > > >> > >> Ben > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the above > observations and welcome further collaboration on this topic. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Our future meetings: > >>> - DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Diego, CA > >>> - The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, San Diego, CA > >>> > >>> > >>> Attachments: > >>> > >>> 29n153811 > >>> > https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-= jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.d= oc > >>> > >>> 29n153811 htm > >>> > https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-= jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.h= tm > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CDNi mailing list > >>> CDNi@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CDNi mailing list > >> CDNi@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If > you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, > you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accept= s > no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you > use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to th= e > electronic transmission of messages. > > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > --001a114427063ea94e0523a1ee50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Cookie use also creates other dependencies when using MSE su= ch as crossdomain/CORS which can be problematic in certain deployments.

Query string based is more portable...

WRT generating tokens being 'cheap'; consider the fl= ash crowds associated with news events on live streams. Token generation in= these circumstance is very different to the moderate peak:mean in on-deman= d video workflows. The trade off being an extended time limited token being= 'good enough'...

I can go into some of these considerations further off list.= ..

CraigT

--
c%5e

On 3 Nov 2015 20:20, "Ben Niven-Jenkins&quo= t; <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote:
Ray,
I wouldn't signal to the CDN whether it should expect the token in a co= okie or a query param, if it was me I'd spec it so the CDN has to suppo= rt both and a rule for which of cookie or query param to use if both are pr= esent.

Ben

> On 3 Nov 2015, at 08:58, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've added my comments below.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>> On 03/11/15 08:53, "CDNi on behalf of Ben Niven-Jenkins"= <cdni-bounces@ietf.org on = behalf of ben@niven-jenkins.co.u= k> wrote:
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool <= ;lsmt@ietf.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing
>>>
>>> Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the = new draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This documen= t specifically addresses the use case of segmented content in the context o= f URI Signing. MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI Sig= ning extension for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we had sev= eral comments and observations that MPEG experts would like to share with t= he IETF CDNI working group. MPEG welcome comments and feedback on the repor= ted progress.
>>>
>>> Integrated workflow
>>> MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following s= teps for the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and= client authentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme i= s the Online Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly available on= line).
>>>
>>> 1.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The service provider choses a given client aut= hentication and authorisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The = application around the DASH client takes care of implementing the protocol = in order to successfully receive the MPD.
>>> 2.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The initial segment access token is provided e= ither in the HTTP response of the MPD or within the MPD itself.
>>> 3.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MPD contains appropriate instructions whic= h signal to the DASH client where the segment access token must be extracte= d from, e.g. either from HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, thi= s signalling instructs the DASH client to insert this segment token back in= segment requests as a query string parameter. Note that MPEG included this= generic mechanism of transparent parameter passing in an ongoing amendment= of MPEG DASH part 1. This document should reach publication in the course = of 2016.
>>
>> I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, e.= g. on the MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s a b= etter option than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80=99t= have to do anything special to have the token inserted on every request as= the HTTP stack will do that as part of HTTP.
>>
>> *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers on = browsers or clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to the r= est of the app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something like ins= ert the token into the request using special client handling anyway, you co= uld do the same for a cookie and have the benefit of only having to do it o= nce rather than once per segment.
>
> Agreed.
>
> My feeling is you'd want both a cookie-based as well as a query pa= rameter-based solution. The cookie-based version for legacy clients, and a = query-based version in cases where cookie's don't work. In the uri-= signing-for-HAS draft I've added a flag to allow the CDN/CSP to communi= cate which mechanism should be applied.
>
>>
>>> 4.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The segment access token is not meant to be va= lidated by the authorization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an= easily scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts acknow= ledged the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to the Path Pattern = defined in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a result, the UR= I Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil the identified requir= ements and will be considered for further work.
>>>
>>>
>>> Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI Si= gning for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft.
>>>
>>> Long-term tokens (into sentences)
>>> Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segment= s, where long-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this= scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to enfor= ce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed Token at e= very request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to know the opin= ion of the IETF CDNI working group on this scenario and whether the validat= ion mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by signalling when the CDN must regene= rate a new URI Signed Token.
>>
>> A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m not = completely certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long time in = which a token could be passed to someone else, which drove the idea of chan= ging the token from the CDN side on every segment which reduces the exposur= e time to the minimum possible. It seems that what MPEG is asking for is th= e ability to tune the exposure time.
>>
>> IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m wonde= ring why someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating tokens is p= retty cheap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA hash function. I= think it also increases the implementation complexity significantly. With = a long use single token or with re-writing the token on every segment the C= DN can process each request independently. With a token that changes after = a variable number of segments, the CDN now needs to keep state about how ma= ny times it has seen the token already and needs to co-ordinate that state = across the CDN in case some of the requests go to different surrogates, etc= .
>>
>> It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit IMO. >
> Fully agree.
>
> (One way to implement it would be to have some sort of Expiration Time= Threshold to indicate when the CDN should refresh the token, but that woul= d result in all kinds of issues, such as effectively having variable token = lengths which will cause issues in cases of prolonged pause)
>
>>
>>> Name collision
>>> MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a = query string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a nor= mative aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would like to = know whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the appropriate approa= ch to prevent name collision.
>
> The current base URI signing spec already allows overriding the URISig= ningPackage query string parameter based on e.g. Metadata. In case of DASH,= and clients having to know this name, I think the best solution would be t= o just convey it in the MPD.
>
>>>
>>> Consecutive tokens
>>> According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft= , the server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive HT= TP requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency between the tokens= . Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not invalida= te a token issued prior to time t ?
>>
>> In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are compl= etely independent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate a token = issued prior to time t.
>
> Agreed. Apart from having to keep and synchronise state across nodes, = I don't see how you could even implement it.
>
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the a= bove observations and welcome further collaboration on this topic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our future meetings:
>>> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0 DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Die= go, CA
>>> -=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, = San Diego, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 29n153811
>>>=C2=A0 https:= //www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-jtc1-sc2= 9-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.doc >>>
>>>=C2=A0 29n153811 htm
>>>=C2=A0 https:= //www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-jtc1-sc2= 9-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.htm >>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If = you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, yo= u are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no= liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use = it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the elec= tronic transmission of messages.

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
--001a114427063ea94e0523a1ee50-- From nobody Tue Nov 3 21:04:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074CF1AC442 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:04:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGHVPymW7wgq for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B2FE1A9152 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:04:12 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f792c6d00000686a-be-5639245f23e1 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EF.BE.26730.F5429365; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 22:17:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 00:04:10 -0500 From: Kevin Ma J To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCrfvx4fyAn0as0GIQmVzP0Tfz56LYfJA Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 05:04:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151019214843.29174.42238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151019214843.29174.42238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt26CimWYwc5JXBZPZ/9hdWD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxuq7d9kLLslUnHxwibmBsVesi5GTQ0LAROLg6clMELaYxIV7 69lAbCGBI4wSTU8kuhi5gOxljBJ3l55nBkmwCWhJPP76F6iBg0NEQFni5yFHkLCwgL3Epqff GEFsEQEHiWv3u1ghbCOJXZd+grWyCKhIbDx0AayGV8BXomHNXUaQMUICjhIrHmWAhDkFnCR+ tX0Ba2UEOuf7qTVgpzELiEvcejIf6kwBiSV7IK6REBCVePn4HyuErSTx8fd8doh6HYkFuz+x QdjaEssWvmaGWCsocXLmE5YJjKKzkIydhaRlFpKWWUhaFjCyrGLkKC1OLctNNzLcxAgM+mMS bI47GBd8sjzEKMDBqMTDu2GyRZgQa2JZcWXuIUYJDmYlEd5KP8swId6UxMqq1KL8+KLSnNTi Q4zSHCxK4rzzZtwPFRJITyxJzU5NLUgtgskycXBKNTAGLF1k9PzkucevctVcIsxP/dWfrS93 k/XJb+0rO5nEQlZkbhBX21STNlOuMeVUxZ+72iuPn+Y0+cXZ92F7kEjkxrRDUWWNfWbTC/fm Put6Z3qV1dnsOP+ilKJIq5w7QZ1hu9bMbJwYlJr+Jdzn9eL5k26mbr72+eiTd3eccgq6ppVI +7kIiF5WYinOSDTUYi4qTgQAEo6HLXYCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 05:04:14 -0000 Hi all, As mentioned in the CDNI session this morning, among the other editorial = changes in this version of the draft, there were two changes that we wanted= to make the wg aware of: 1. We removed the sid property from the Grouping metadata object. Grouping contained ccid and sid. The intent of ccid is that the CSP/uCDN generates the ccid to group as= sets together, and the uCDN provides ccid to the dCDN so that it can use it= to, e.g., aggregate logs. The sid, however, is a field that is generated by the dCDN and placed = into the log file; it is not a value that is provided by the uCDN to the dC= DN. The only value of sid could be to enable sid generation by the the dCD= N, and we and the LI authors did not see a point in having an enable bit, s= o we removed it. 2. We removed the CredentialAuth simple type. CredentialAuth had a simple username/password. It was really meant to= just be an example of an Auth object (until we get the URI signing Auth ob= ject), but we didn't think it was really useful. For delivery auth, the uC= DN would never distribute every possible username/password combination to t= he dCDN. For acquisition auth, username/password did not seem very useful,= and it can be embedded into the acquisition UR. Given these, we removed C= redentialAuth to reduce clutter. If anyone disagrees with these decisions please let us know. thanx! -- Kevin J. Ma > -----Original Message----- > From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:49 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks > Interconnection Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : CDN Interconnection Metadata > Authors : Ben Niven-Jenkins > Rob Murray > Matt Caulfield > Kevin J. Ma > Filename : draft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12.txt > Pages : 62 > Date : 2015-10-19 >=20 > Abstract: > The Content Delivery Networks Interconnection (CDNI) metadata > interface enables interconnected Content Delivery Networks (CDNs) to > exchange content distribution metadata in order to enable content > acquisition and delivery. The CDNI metadata associated with a piece > of content provides a downstream CDN with sufficient information for > the downstream CDN to service content requests on behalf of an > upstream CDN. This document describes both a base set of CDNI > metadata and the protocol for exchanging that metadata. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-metadata/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cdni-metadata-12 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Tue Nov 3 21:15:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietf.org Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421D11ACD13; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:15:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151104051550.10865.73122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:15:50 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 05:15:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Working Group of the IETF. Title : CDNI Request Routing: Footprint and Capabilities Semantics Authors : Jan Seedorf Jon Peterson Stefano Previdi Ray van Brandenburg Kevin J. Ma Filename : draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2015-11-03 Abstract: This document captures the semantics of the "Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement" part of the CDNI Request Routing interface, i.e., the desired meaning of "Footprint" and "Capabilities" in the CDNI context, and what the "Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement Interface (FCI)" offers within CDNI. The document also provides guidelines for the CDNI FCI protocol. It further defines a Base Advertisement Object, the necessary registries for capabilities and footprints, and guidelines how these registries may be extended in the future. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 3 21:22:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 072B71ACD18 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8dllF9SFSDF for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 237551ACD13 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 21:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f792c6d00000686a-cb-563928ba1b73 Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C4.0F.26730.AB829365; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 22:35:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 00:22:44 -0500 From: Kevin Ma J To: "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFr/zFP4hG0zkhku3VQNfcGYjOp6LUpzw Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 05:22:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151104051550.10865.73122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151104051550.10865.73122.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgu5uDcswg2PbWSyezv7D6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujEX7ygraxSrmvlzA1sD4RaCLkZNDQsBE4tT114wQtpjEhXvr 2boYuTiEBI4wSqz+NIMFwlnGKPFp3iywKjYBLYnHX/8ydTFycIgIKEv8POQIEhYWiJT4dPEd M4gtIhAlcbN1IwuEbSTx6eMlsFYWARWJFVemMIHYvAK+Ejv2P2MHsYUEHCV2N1xgAxnJKeAk MX1uIUiYEeie76fWgJUzC4hL3HoynwniTgGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/9jhbCVJD7+ns8OUa8jsWD3 JzYIW1ti2cLXzBBrBSVOznzCMoFRdBaSsbOQtMxC0jILScsCRpZVjBylxalluelGhpsYgUF/ TILNcQfjgk+WhxgFOBiVeHg3TLYIE2JNLCuuzD3EKMHBrCTCW+lnGSbEm5JYWZValB9fVJqT WnyIUZqDRUmcd96M+6FCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGxm4xvorttnsjvwU3CfXeWzgrIl8x bJ7O8y8/pFuNgxZl/DnwPselcuKvPI57U3s4CoJP+l7uvmuSuGyKV5XZnIXTolr8n59ckuB8 0lPQa16WrWtHu6XTiZdXLk6vC5yw5vvj1dc5JB35Zz6sO/nx31mJ2Un627aeO7V1t8WzRoGZ k4SlzEPzviuxFGckGmoxFxUnAgCV0fOLdgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 05:22:49 -0000 Hi all, As mentioned in the CDNI session this morning, this is the update to the = FCI semantics draft: - removed c-ip-anonymizing - updated the security considerations - made RFC5226 a normative reference At this point (as an author), we believe that the document is complete an= d ready for WG last call. thanx! -- Kevin J. Ma > -----Original Message----- > From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- > drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:16 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- > semantics-09.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks > Interconnection Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : CDNI Request Routing: Footprint and Capabilitie= s > Semantics > Authors : Jan Seedorf > Jon Peterson > Stefano Previdi > Ray van Brandenburg > Kevin J. Ma > Filename : draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics- > 09.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2015-11-03 >=20 > Abstract: > This document captures the semantics of the "Footprint and > Capabilities Advertisement" part of the CDNI Request Routing > interface, i.e., the desired meaning of "Footprint" and > "Capabilities" in the CDNI context, and what the "Footprint and > Capabilities Advertisement Interface (FCI)" offers within CDNI. The > document also provides guidelines for the CDNI FCI protocol. It > further defines a Base Advertisement Object, the necessary registries > for capabilities and footprints, and guidelines how these registries > may be extended in the future. >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- > semantics/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- > semantics-09 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilitie= s- > semantics-09 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Wed Nov 4 10:12:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849051A6EF4 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 10:12:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xOoHZlNpZdvR for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 10:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.144]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A6C1A21B5 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 10:12:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail2.cascaismirage.com ([195.23.63.202] helo=[192.168.103.59]) by smtp04.mailcore.me with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Zu2XN-000C8X-Q2; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:11:59 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_076283FE-31C8-4A54-BF2F-A9934679BA78" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 18:11:54 +0000 Message-Id: <6CB10B3D-1EBD-4DA6-818B-6DB95109C7FB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <20151103041227.25387.93653.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <33E9CB3F-A487-43C1-B20E-E8D779A6BB58@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <3862FEAC-05EE-490B-94AD-3B8C9A5D6CD3@tno.nl> <7C569AF8-E5CE-4C10-9056-03497D3A6AAB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> To: c^ X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Archived-At: Cc: Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Discussion List , Watanabe Shinji Subject: Re: [CDNi] New Liaison Statement, "Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing" X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:12:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_076283FE-31C8-4A54-BF2F-A9934679BA78 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Craig, > On 3 Nov 2015, at 12:21, c^ wrote: >=20 > Cookie use also creates other dependencies when using MSE such as = crossdomain/CORS which can be problematic in certain deployments. >=20 > Query string based is more portable... >=20 But not without its own set of issues. There is no single answer here = IMO. BTW I wasn=E2=80=99t trying to suggest that MPEG avoid query = parameters and use cookies instead but to ponder whether they=E2=80=99d = considered cookies as part of the solution space as if it was considered = and discounted I=E2=80=99d be interested in what led to that choice. > WRT generating tokens being 'cheap'; consider the flash crowds = associated with news events on live streams. Token generation in these = circumstance is very different to the moderate peak:mean in on-demand = video workflows. >=20 Sure but such flash crowds put stress on the whole delivery chain and I = highly suspect that the overhead of generating tokens will not be the = weakest link that causes a flash crowd to impact a streaming service. > The trade off being an extended time limited token being 'good = enough'=E2=80=A6 >=20 That was part of my point. If one has the option to create a long lived = single token and one has the option to chain tokens on each request then = I=E2=80=99m struggling to understand what benefit there is to having a = third option that is somewhere in the middle. > I can go into some of these considerations further off list=E2=80=A6 >=20 I=E2=80=99d certainly be interested in discussing this stuff more either = on or off list. Ben > CraigT >=20 > -- > c%5e >=20 > On 3 Nov 2015 20:20, "Ben Niven-Jenkins" > wrote: > Ray, >=20 > I wouldn't signal to the CDN whether it should expect the token in a = cookie or a query param, if it was me I'd spec it so the CDN has to = support both and a rule for which of cookie or query param to use if = both are present. >=20 > Ben >=20 > > On 3 Nov 2015, at 08:58, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van = > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I've added my comments below. > > > > Ray > > > > > > > >> On 03/11/15 08:53, "CDNi on behalf of Ben Niven-Jenkins" = on behalf of = ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk > wrote: > >> > >> Colleagues, > >> > >> My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline > >> > >> > >>> On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool = > wrote: > >>> > >>> Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing > >>> > >>> Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of the new = draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document = specifically addresses the use case of segmented content in the context = of URI Signing. MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI = Signing extension for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we = had several comments and observations that MPEG experts would like to = share with the IETF CDNI working group. MPEG welcome comments and = feedback on the reported progress. > >>> > >>> Integrated workflow > >>> MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the following steps = for the integration of URI Signing extension for segmented content and = client authentication and authorisation scheme (Example of such a scheme = is the Online Multimedia Authorization Protocol (OMAP) publicly = available online). > >>> > >>> 1. The service provider choses a given client authentication = and authorisation scheme to protect the access to the MPD. The = application around the DASH client takes care of implementing the = protocol in order to successfully receive the MPD. > >>> 2. The initial segment access token is provided either in the = HTTP response of the MPD or within the MPD itself. > >>> 3. The MPD contains appropriate instructions which signal to = the DASH client where the segment access token must be extracted from, = e.g. either from HTTP header of segment responses. In addition, this = signalling instructs the DASH client to insert this segment token back = in segment requests as a query string parameter. Note that MPEG included = this generic mechanism of transparent parameter passing in an ongoing = amendment of MPEG DASH part 1. This document should reach publication in = the course of 2016. > >> > >> I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, = e.g. on the MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s = a better option than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80= =99t have to do anything special to have the token inserted on every = request as the HTTP stack will do that as part of HTTP. > >> > >> *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers on = browsers or clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to = the rest of the app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something = like insert the token into the request using special client handling = anyway, you could do the same for a cookie and have the benefit of only = having to do it once rather than once per segment. > > > > Agreed. > > > > My feeling is you'd want both a cookie-based as well as a query = parameter-based solution. The cookie-based version for legacy clients, = and a query-based version in cases where cookie's don't work. In the = uri-signing-for-HAS draft I've added a flag to allow the CDN/CSP to = communicate which mechanism should be applied. > > > >> > >>> 4. The segment access token is not meant to be validated by the = authorization provider but solely by the CDN to guarantee an easily = scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG experts = acknowledged the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to the Path = Pattern defined in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. As a = result, the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil the = identified requirements and will be considered for further work. > >>> > >>> > >>> Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI = Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft. > >>> > >>> Long-term tokens (into sentences) > >>> Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request segments, = where long-term typically means couple of hours to several days. In this = scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are sent along to = enforce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the URI Signed = Token at every request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts would like to = know the opinion of the IETF CDNI working group on this scenario and = whether the validation mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by signalling = when the CDN must regenerate a new URI Signed Token. > >> > >> A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m not = completely certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long time = in which a token could be passed to someone else, which drove the idea = of changing the token from the CDN side on every segment which reduces = the exposure time to the minimum possible. It seems that what MPEG is = asking for is the ability to tune the exposure time. > >> > >> IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m = wondering why someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating = tokens is pretty cheap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA = hash function. I think it also increases the implementation complexity = significantly. With a long use single token or with re-writing the token = on every segment the CDN can process each request independently. With a = token that changes after a variable number of segments, the CDN now = needs to keep state about how many times it has seen the token already = and needs to co-ordinate that state across the CDN in case some of the = requests go to different surrogates, etc. > >> > >> It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit IMO. > > > > Fully agree. > > > > (One way to implement it would be to have some sort of Expiration = Time Threshold to indicate when the CDN should refresh the token, but = that would result in all kinds of issues, such as effectively having = variable token lengths which will cause issues in cases of prolonged = pause) > > > >> > >>> Name collision > >>> MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as a = query string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes a = normative aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would = like to know whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the = appropriate approach to prevent name collision. > > > > The current base URI signing spec already allows overriding the = URISigningPackage query string parameter based on e.g. Metadata. In case = of DASH, and clients having to know this name, I think the best solution = would be to just convey it in the MPD. > > > >>> > >>> Consecutive tokens > >>> According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft, = the server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in consecutive = HTTP requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency between the = tokens. Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at time t does not = invalidate a token issued prior to time t ? > >> > >> In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are = completely independent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate = a token issued prior to time t. > > > > Agreed. Apart from having to keep and synchronise state across = nodes, I don't see how you could even implement it. > > > >> > >> Ben > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider the above = observations and welcome further collaboration on this topic. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Our future meetings: > >>> - DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San Diego, CA > >>> - The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February 2016, San Diego, CA > >>> > >>> > >>> Attachments: > >>> > >>> 29n153811 > >>> = https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-j= tc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-1.d= oc = > >>> > >>> 29n153811 htm > >>> = https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-02-iso-iec-j= tc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-attachment-2.h= tm = > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> CDNi mailing list > >>> CDNi@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni = > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> CDNi mailing list > >> CDNi@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni = > > This message may contain information that is not intended for you. = If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by = mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. = TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner = in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks = inherent to the electronic transmission of messages. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni = --Apple-Mail=_076283FE-31C8-4A54-BF2F-A9934679BA78 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Craig,

On 3 Nov 2015, at 12:21, c^ = <c@gryning.com> = wrote:

Cookie use also creates other dependencies when = using MSE such as crossdomain/CORS which can be problematic in certain = deployments.

Query string based is more = portable...

But not without its own set of = issues. There is no single answer here IMO. BTW I wasn=E2=80=99t trying = to suggest that MPEG avoid query parameters and use cookies instead but = to ponder whether they=E2=80=99d considered cookies as part of the = solution space as if it was considered and discounted I=E2=80=99d be = interested in what led to that choice.

WRT = generating tokens being 'cheap'; consider the flash crowds associated = with news events on live streams. Token generation in these circumstance = is very different to the moderate peak:mean in on-demand video = workflows.

Sure but such flash crowds put = stress on the whole delivery chain and I highly suspect that the = overhead of generating tokens will not be the weakest link that causes a = flash crowd to impact a streaming service.

The = trade off being an extended time limited token being 'good = enough'=E2=80=A6

That was part of my point. If one = has the option to create a long lived single token and one has the = option to chain tokens on each request then I=E2=80=99m struggling to = understand what benefit there is to having a third option that is = somewhere in the middle.

I can go into some = of these considerations further off list=E2=80=A6

I=E2= =80=99d certainly be interested in discussing this stuff more either on = or off list.

Ben

CraigT

--
c%5e

On 3 Nov 2015 20:20, "Ben Niven-Jenkins" = <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote:
Ray,

I wouldn't signal to the CDN whether it should expect the token in a = cookie or a query param, if it was me I'd spec it so the CDN has to = support both and a rule for which of cookie or query param to use if = both are present.

Ben

> On 3 Nov 2015, at 08:58, Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van <ray.vanbrandenburg@tno.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've added my comments below.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
>> On 03/11/15 08:53, "CDNi on behalf of Ben Niven-Jenkins" <cdni-bounces@ietf.org= on behalf of ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> My 2p (=C2=A53.7) inline
>>
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2015, at 04:12, Liaison Statement Management Tool = <lsmt@ietf.org> = wrote:
>>>
>>> Title: Liaison Statement to IETF on URI signing
>>>
>>> Body: At the 113th MPEG meeting MPEG experts took note of = the new draft "URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming". This document = specifically addresses the use case of segmented content in the context = of URI Signing. MPEG experts progressed regarding the integration of URI = Signing extension for segmented content in MPEG DASH. In discussion we = had several comments and observations that MPEG experts would like to = share with the IETF CDNI working group. MPEG welcome comments and = feedback on the reported progress.
>>>
>>> Integrated workflow
>>> MPEG experts reached consensus on recommending the = following steps for the integration of URI Signing extension for = segmented content and client authentication and authorisation scheme = (Example of such a scheme is the Online Multimedia Authorization = Protocol (OMAP) publicly available online).
>>>
>>> 1.    The service provider choses a given client = authentication and authorisation scheme to protect the access to the = MPD. The application around the DASH client takes care of implementing = the protocol in order to successfully receive the MPD.
>>> 2.    The initial segment access token is = provided either in the HTTP response of the MPD or within the MPD = itself.
>>> 3.    The MPD contains appropriate instructions = which signal to the DASH client where the segment access token must be = extracted from, e.g. either from HTTP header of segment responses. In = addition, this signalling instructs the DASH client to insert this = segment token back in segment requests as a query string parameter. Note = that MPEG included this generic mechanism of transparent parameter = passing in an ongoing amendment of MPEG DASH part 1. This document = should reach publication in the course of 2016.
>>
>> I wonder if MPEG also considered setting the token in a cookie, = e.g. on the MPD response? For the situations where it works* it=E2=80=99s = a better option than query parameters IMO and means the client doesn=E2=80= =99t have to do anything special to have the token inserted on every = request as the HTTP stack will do that as part of HTTP.
>>
>> *cookies don=E2=80=99t work in all environments, e.g. blockers = on browsers or clients where the player has an independent cookie jar to = the rest of the app/browser but if you=E2=80=99re going to do something = like insert the token into the request using special client handling = anyway, you could do the same for a cookie and have the benefit of only = having to do it once rather than once per segment.
>
> Agreed.
>
> My feeling is you'd want both a cookie-based as well as a query = parameter-based solution. The cookie-based version for legacy clients, = and a query-based version in cases where cookie's don't work. In the = uri-signing-for-HAS draft I've added a flag to allow the CDN/CSP to = communicate which mechanism should be applied.
>
>>
>>> 4.    The segment access token is not meant to be = validated by the authorization provider but solely by the CDN to = guarantee an easily scalable and stateless validation. To this end, MPEG = experts acknowledged the need of a parameter functionally equivalent to = the Path Pattern defined in the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming. = As a result, the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming seems to fulfil = the identified requirements and will be considered for further work.
>>>
>>>
>>> Furthermore, here are comments from MPEG experts on the URI = Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming draft.
>>>
>>> Long-term tokens (into sentences)
>>> Some DASH services may use long-term tokens to request = segments, where long-term typically means couple of hours to several = days. In this scenario, additional tokens (not URI Signed Token) are = sent along to enforce client authentication. As a result, refreshing the = URI Signed Token at every request may seem superfluous. MPEG experts = would like to know the opinion of the IETF CDNI working group on this = scenario and whether the validation mechanism could be adapted, e.g. by = signalling when the CDN must regenerate a new URI Signed Token.
>>
>> A single token can be given a long expiry time so I=E2=80=99m = not completely certain what the MPEG use case is. That provides a long = time in which a token could be passed to someone else, which drove the = idea of changing the token from the CDN side on every segment which = reduces the exposure time to the minimum possible. It seems that what = MPEG is asking for is the ability to tune the exposure time.
>>
>> IMO it sounds a nice knob to have in theory, but I=E2=80=99m = wondering why someone would actually tune it in practice. Generating = tokens is pretty cheap, it=E2=80=99s basically a single call to a SHA = hash function. I think it also increases the implementation complexity = significantly. With a long use single token or with re-writing the token = on every segment the CDN can process each request independently. With a = token that changes after a variable number of segments, the CDN now = needs to keep state about how many times it has seen the token already = and needs to co-ordinate that state across the CDN in case some of the = requests go to different surrogates, etc.
>>
>> It sounds like a lot of complexity for little real benefit = IMO.
>
> Fully agree.
>
> (One way to implement it would be to have some sort of Expiration = Time Threshold to indicate when the CDN should refresh the token, but = that would result in all kinds of issues, such as effectively having = variable token lengths which will cause issues in cases of prolonged = pause)
>
>>
>>> Name collision
>>> MPEG experts understand that the name URISigningPackage, as = a query string, as an HTTP header parameter or in a cookie, constitutes = a normative aspect of the URI Signing specification. MPEG experts would = like to know whether the IETF CDNI working group has decided the = appropriate approach to prevent name collision.
>
> The current base URI signing spec already allows overriding the = URISigningPackage query string parameter based on e.g. Metadata. In case = of DASH, and clients having to know this name, I think the best solution = would be to just convey it in the MPD.
>
>>>
>>> Consecutive tokens
>>> According to the URI Signing for HTTP Adaptive Streaming = draft, the server may issue multiple tokens and delivered them in = consecutive HTTP requests. It does not seem that there is a dependency = between the tokens. Could IETF expert confirm that a token issued at = time t does not invalidate a token issued prior to time t ?
= >>
>> In the 3 token implementations I am familiar with tokens are = completely independent and a token issued at time t does not invalidate = a token issued prior to time t.
>
> Agreed. Apart from having to keep and synchronise state across = nodes, I don't see how you could even implement it.
>
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MPEG kindly asks the IETF CDNI working group to consider = the above observations and welcome further collaboration on this = topic.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our future meetings:
>>> -    DASH Ad-hoc meetings, 21 February 2016, San = Diego, CA
>>> -    The 114th MPEG meeting, 22 - 26 February = 2016, San Diego, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachments:
>>>
>>>  29n153811
>>>  https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-0= 2-iso-iec-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-att= achment-1.doc
>>>
>>>  29n153811 htm
>>>  https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2015-11-0= 2-iso-iec-jtc1-sc29-wg11-cdni-liaison-statement-to-ietf-on-uri-signing-att= achment-2.htm
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CDNi mailing list
>>> CDNi@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> CDNi mailing list
>> CDNi@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
> This message may contain information that is not intended for you. = If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by = mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. = TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner = in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks = inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

= --Apple-Mail=_076283FE-31C8-4A54-BF2F-A9934679BA78-- From nobody Mon Nov 9 08:51:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietf.org Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD711B7FB6; Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:51:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.9.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151109165118.779.25437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 08:51:18 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-cdni-logging@ietf.org, cdni@ietf.org, cdni-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:51:19 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-logging/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS points updated for -21, thanks for the great improvement in the privacy related stuff. I do however have one remaining (security related) thing to ask about but with a concrete suggested change below. (1) cleared (2) cleared (3) cleared (thanks!) (4) cleared (take as part of point (3) if need be) but I think you fixed it (5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy. I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all of the log content basically saying that you really need to know what you're doing or you can break security very easily. Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4 just before the start of 3.4.1: "Logging fields from HTTP requests and responses can be very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain (months) long lived bearer token values that can be used to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values may be included in other header fields or within URLs or elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising such values in a log can therefore represent a significant increase in risk both for the user and the web service provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of headers to be added to logs, or by not supporting wildcard selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs." I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with any specific better words. (6) cleared (7) cleared ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - in the description of c-groupid, "the address with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't very clear. I know what you mean but I don't think you state it very clearly. Could be that a bit of text earlier in the document that describes the basic idea would be better than doing it all inline as you have in -21. OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about 'em if that's useful - I'm happy to do so anyway. - I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of the end user (a person) - 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed? - 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean? - 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe - 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd - 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about that is better. - 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms? If so, please say so. - 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g. logged URIs on a search engine. - 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not? From nobody Fri Nov 13 10:30:38 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C6B1B2A94; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X_l3ZRe3id2o; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x230.google.com (mail-yk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E58C91B2A8E; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by ykba77 with SMTP id a77so160813109ykb.2; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GZs3V95Yr4anuf2/eOvOigtf6wfv/lLizrZSczYVWoQ=; b=YAdjZPqat68dcQHW05Tj3yVurrG7uuvopD0lM5ie8iv5NMjb5Lb8CORexpoHcmSsjV w7OvIfIRKeIzOQ4CvvB7vgbfLfR0KSvFLgqS+zIZSGQH7UMiiaH5NK/kBItyl+P21O8r IXFSSc/bG2aCJyKomqR/MOxVu6/h5biaiI0cIhq1NSo6ICQdhh5qu6dfUtf6TC3wVO5Q k+G9kh42FFDjjjCe4izpVy3NHc92WM8kfIwpfm05Re9mUX6uA6fOLW6rMZBlVhPQlUlI hMjq3TQM3BhfeEET54nneGCiREL0UwXXygXoSTgR1mhWm/hg3RUUQ7xD9SRw5OSdPLcs o65g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.13.213 with SMTP id 204mr25077717ywn.281.1447439425141; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.31.149.79 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 10:30:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151109165118.779.25437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20151109165118.779.25437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:30:25 -0600 Message-ID: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF To: Stephen Farrell Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1145ed86c5078405247040e4 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-cdni-logging@ietf.org" , The IESG , "" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 18:30:33 -0000 --001a1145ed86c5078405247040e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Authors, On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-logging/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > DISCUSS points updated for -21, thanks for the great > improvement in the privacy related stuff. I do however > have one remaining (security related) thing to ask > about but with a concrete suggested change below. > > (1) cleared > > (2) cleared > > (3) cleared (thanks!) > > (4) cleared (take as part of point (3) if need be) but I > think you fixed it > > (5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header > values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And > it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy. > I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all > of the log content basically saying that you really need to > know what you're doing or you can break security very easily. > Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4 > just before the start of 3.4.1: > > "Logging fields from HTTP requests and responses can be > very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain > (months) long lived bearer token values that can be used > to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values > may be included in other header fields or within URLs or > elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising > such values in a log can therefore represent a significant > increase in risk both for the user and the web service > provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations > ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such > bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of > headers to be added to logs, or by not supporting wildcard > selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such > mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or > privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs." > > I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with > any specific better words. Did Stephen's suggestion here work for you? Thanks, Spencer > (6) cleared > > (7) cleared > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - in the description of c-groupid, "the address > with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised > and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't > very clear. I know what you mean but I don't > think you state it very clearly. Could be that a > bit of text earlier in the document that describes > the basic idea would be better than doing it all > inline as you have in -21. > > OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't > check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about > 'em if that's useful - I'm happy to do so anyway. > > - I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's > privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of > the end user (a person) > > - 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed? > > - 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean? > > - 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe > > - 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd > > - 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, > but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about > that is better. > > - 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms? If > so, please say so. > > - 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy > sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g. logged URIs on > a search engine. > > - 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not? > > > --001a1145ed86c5078405247040e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors,

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Stephen Farrell <ste= phen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s= tatement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-cdni-logging/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


DISCUSS points updated for -21, thanks for the great
improvement in the privacy related stuff. I do however
have one remaining (security related) thing to ask
about but with a concrete suggested change below.

(1) cleared

(2) cleared

(3) cleared (thanks!)

(4) cleared (take as part of point (3) if need be) but I
think you fixed it

(5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header
values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And
it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy.
I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all
of the log content basically saying that you really need to
know what you're doing or you can break security very easily.
Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4
just before the start of 3.4.1:

"Logging fields from HTTP requests and responses can be
very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain
(months) long lived bearer token values that can be used
to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values
may be included in other header fields or within URLs or
elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising
such values in a log can therefore represent a significant
increase in risk both for the user and the web service
provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations
ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such
bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of
headers to be added to logs, or by not supporting wildcard
selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such
mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or
privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs."

I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with
any specific better words.

Did Stephen'= s suggestion here work for you?

Thanks,
=
Spencer
=C2=A0
(6) cleared

(7) cleared


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- in the description of c-groupid, "the address
with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised
and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't
very clear. I know what you mean but I don't
think you state it very clearly. Could be that a
bit of text earlier in the document that describes
the basic idea would be better than doing it all
inline as you have in -21.

OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't
check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about
'em if that's useful=C2=A0 - I'm happy to do so anyway.

- I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's<= br> privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of
the end user (a person)

- 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed?

- 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean?

- 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe

- 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd

- 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about
that is better.

- 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms?=C2=A0 If
so, please say so.

- 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy
sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g.=C2=A0 logged URIs on
a search engine.

- 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not?



--001a1145ed86c5078405247040e4-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 12:39:29 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19681B30C3 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:39:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-mLqEpHb1wY for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 14A721B30C0 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 81095 invoked by uid 99); 13 Nov 2015 20:39:26 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mail-relay.apache.org) (140.211.11.15) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 20:39:26 +0000 Received: from mail-io0-f171.google.com (mail-io0-f171.google.com [209.85.223.171]) by mail-relay.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mail-relay.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id 49EEE1A04DE for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 20:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iofh3 with SMTP id h3so109409729iof.3 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:39:25 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.138.21 with SMTP id m21mr26578695iod.115.1447447165082; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:39:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Phil Sorber Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 20:39:15 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: "cdni@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ff9781b24380524720ed0 Archived-At: Subject: [CDNi] Convey Access IP list to CSP X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 20:39:28 -0000 --001a113ff9781b24380524720ed0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I was looking for a way to tell a CSP which IP's will be accessing the origin in such a way that they are alerted about added and removed nodes so the CSP could set ACL's accordingly. I looked through the FCI spec and some of the others but didn't not see anything that fit that requirement. Have I just missed it? Thanks. --001a113ff9781b24380524720ed0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was looking for a way to tell a CSP which IP's will = be accessing the origin in such a way that they are alerted about added and= removed nodes so the CSP could set ACL's accordingly. I looked through= the FCI spec and some of the others but didn't not see anything that f= it that requirement. Have I just missed it?

Thanks.
--001a113ff9781b24380524720ed0-- From nobody Fri Nov 13 12:56:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE4F61B315B for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oOVNTl7y4neg for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:56:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5075B1B3165 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 12:56:53 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f792c6d00000686a-11-5645e0a9f5fb Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D9.D6.26730.9A0E5465; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 14:07:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 13 Nov 2015 15:56:51 -0500 From: Kevin Ma J To: Phil Sorber , "cdni@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] Convey Access IP list to CSP Thread-Index: AQHRHlNoJ9C753Zu1UO87vEPCpn9H56aaocA Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 20:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A419F67F880AB2468214E154CB8A556206BCEB27eusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonUHfVA9cwg3MzBCyezv7DarHg7H12 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=?us-ascii?q?xEBTBEKAYMAgRUFh0SPBAGFHIVEUYF1gVuEQI5Xh1IBEQ4BAUKCER0WgUByAYN?= =?us-ascii?q?0BxeBKgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,291,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217";a="208436494" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 Nov 2015 07:14:58 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (xch-aln-016.cisco.com [173.36.7.26]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tAE7EwPs029960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 Nov 2015 07:14:58 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (173.36.7.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 01:14:58 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Sat, 14 Nov 2015 01:14:57 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRGw7daB8csk6SnEuREkrZZElHQZ6asTGAgABxBy0= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 07:14:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151109165118.779.25437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BCFD47A2F786426887024E3BAF9AC9FAciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "" , "cdni-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-cdni-logging@ietf.org" , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [CDNi] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 07:15:04 -0000 --_000_BCFD47A2F786426887024E3BAF9AC9FAciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Yes, sorry for the delay. It is very close to the top of the ToDo list so will get to it soon. Francois Sent from my iPhone On 13 Nov 2015, at 19:30, Spencer Dawkins at IETF > wrote: Dear Authors, On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Stephen Farrell > wrote: Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-logging/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS points updated for -21, thanks for the great improvement in the privacy related stuff. I do however have one remaining (security related) thing to ask about but with a concrete suggested change below. (1) cleared (2) cleared (3) cleared (thanks!) (4) cleared (take as part of point (3) if need be) but I think you fixed it (5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy. I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all of the log content basically saying that you really need to know what you're doing or you can break security very easily. Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4 just before the start of 3.4.1: "Logging fields from HTTP requests and responses can be very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain (months) long lived bearer token values that can be used to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values may be included in other header fields or within URLs or elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising such values in a log can therefore represent a significant increase in risk both for the user and the web service provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of headers to be added to logs, or by not supporting wildcard selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs." I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with any specific better words. Did Stephen's suggestion here work for you? Thanks, Spencer (6) cleared (7) cleared ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - in the description of c-groupid, "the address with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't very clear. I know what you mean but I don't think you state it very clearly. Could be that a bit of text earlier in the document that describes the basic idea would be better than doing it all inline as you have in -21. OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about 'em if that's useful - I'm happy to do so anyway. - I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of the end user (a person) - 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed? - 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean? - 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe - 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd - 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about that is better. - 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms? If so, please say so. - 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g. logged URIs on a search engine. - 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not? --_000_BCFD47A2F786426887024E3BAF9AC9FAciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, 

Yes, sorry for the delay. 
It is very close to the top of the ToDo list= so will get to it soon. 

Francois

Sent from my iPhone
Dear Authors,

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Stephen Farrell= <stephen.= farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-cdni-logging/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


DISCUSS points updated for -21, thanks for the great
improvement in the privacy related stuff. I do however
have one remaining (security related) thing to ask
about but with a concrete suggested change below.

(1) cleared

(2) cleared

(3) cleared (thanks!)

(4) cleared (take as part of point (3) if need be) but I
think you fixed it

(5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header
values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And
it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy.
I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all
of the log content basically saying that you really need to
know what you're doing or you can break security very easily.
Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4
just before the start of 3.4.1:

"Logging fields from HTTP requests and responses can be
very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain
(months) long lived bearer token values that can be used
to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values
may be included in other header fields or within URLs or
elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising
such values in a log can therefore represent a significant
increase in risk both for the user and the web service
provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations
ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such
bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of
headers to be added to logs, or by not supporting wildcard
selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such
mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or
privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs."

I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with
any specific better words.

Did Stephen's suggestion here work for you?

Thanks,

Spencer
 
(6) cleared

(7) cleared


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


- in the description of c-groupid, "the address
with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised
and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't
very clear. I know what you mean but I don't
think you state it very clearly. Could be that a
bit of text earlier in the document that describes
the basic idea would be better than doing it all
inline as you have in -21.

OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't
check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about
'em if that's useful  - I'm happy to do so anyway.

- I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's
privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of
the end user (a person)

- 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed?

- 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean?

- 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe

- 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd

- 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about
that is better.

- 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms?  If
so, please say so.

- 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy
sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g.  logged URIs on
a search engine.

- 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not?



--_000_BCFD47A2F786426887024E3BAF9AC9FAciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Nov 20 11:31:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4ED31B2CFF for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 11:31:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q7kb5GfUieep for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 11:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A72171B2D04 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696CE1B33DA for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 12:11:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jXFIgw8jtmzG for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 12:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7A01B33D1 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 12:11:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dab-ell1-h-75-9.dab.02.net ([82.132.239.151] helo=[10.4.146.88]) by smtp04.mailcore.me with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Zzs1a-0001GV-KL; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:11:15 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7139D5B5-79ED-4E27-BAFE-7C66974F08E0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Ben Niven-Jenkins X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13B143) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:11:08 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4E3F3C43-1939-4F25-BAA0-6C66AE79E0E5@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <73F3A4F6-FC5D-4BC8-BEEC-82F27BA3641F@tno.nl> <102272CE-9EF0-4959-B9E2-8A2F10147BF7@cisco.com> <853CC284-D147-4A1F-8C47-213775F47768@cisco.com> <437C224B-1C0E-4705-8D52-98E139DDD75E@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <46A08C98-7B12-4F98-8826-8E9FE904B83C@niven-jenkins.co.uk> <6DF9C32E-A750-4CF6-A613-489225FC5042@cisco.com> To: Kevin Ma J X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Jon's commet on draft-ietf-cdni-redirection X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 20:11:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-7139D5B5-79ED-4E27-BAFE-7C66974F08E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kevin, Your proposed text works for me & is better than my original text IMO.=20 Ben > On 20 Nov 2015, at 19:31, Kevin Ma J wrote: >=20 > Hi All, > =20 > I thought I'd propose the alternate text (below), and see if it meets ev= eryone's needs? > =20 > thanx! > =20 > -- Kevin J. Ma > =20 > The Redirection Interface defined in this document is intended to support d= elegation of HTTP-based traffic, including TLS encrypted HTTPS traffic, via D= NS or HTTP redirection. The User Agent request to the uCDN may be made over= HTTP, HTTPS, or DNS. In the case of an HTTPS request from the User Agent, t= he TLS session provides authentication of the request router sending the res= ponse. In this case, the user agent may be confident that the HTTP redirec= tion over TLS is genuine. In the cases of HTTP (without TLS) or DNS redirect= ion, there is no inherent authentication of the request router. In these ca= ses, forged responses could be inserted by an attacker to maliciously redire= ct the User Agent to an alternate Redirection Target. In the case of DNS re= direction, DNSSEC [ref] could be used to authenticate DNS responses, however= , configuration of DNSSEC is outside the scope of this document. > =20 > In all three of the above cases, either HTTP or HTTPS could be used to con= nect to the Redirection Target. If the Redirection Target URL uses HTTPS, t= he Redirection Target needs to be able to successfully complete the TLS hand= shake and perform encryption of the TLS channel. Mechanisms to distribute t= he required information and/or configuration, such as private keys, to surro= gates and request routers in dCDNs are outside the scope of this document. > =20 > =20 > From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheu= r (flefauch) > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 3:03 AM > To: Niven-Jenkins Ben > Cc: cdni@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CDNi] Jon's commet on draft-ietf-cdni-redirection > =20 > Hi Ben, > =20 > Minor editorial suggestions: > =20 > The redirection interface defined in this document enables a uCDN to retur= n to a User Agent a DNS response on behalf of a dCDN. If DNSSEC is deployed,= a User Agent can authenticate the DNS responses it receives, enabling it to= distinguish between genuine (redirection) responses and malicious (redirect= ion) responses . Without DNSSEC a User Agent is unable to detect a malicious= DNS redirect. HTTPS redirection provides an additional layer of authentica= tion via TLS because in order for the TLS handshake to complete, the server t= o which the User Agent connects needs to authenticate itself to the User Age= nt. > =20 > Cheers > =20 > Francois > =20 > =20 > On 27 Oct 2015, at 22:14, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrot= e: > =20 > Hi Jon, > =20 > Would the following text address your comments, feel free to wordsmith it t= o your liking. > =20 > =3D=3D=3D > The redirection interface defined in this document enables a uCDN to retur= n > a DNS response on behalf of a dCDN. If DNSSEC is deployed > User Agents can authenticate the DNS responses they receive, enabling them= to distinguish between genuine responses (redirections) and malicious respo= nses (redirections). Without DNSSEC a User Agent is unable to detect a malic= ious DNS redirect. HTTPS redirection provides an additional layer of authen= tication via TLS because in order for the TLS handshake to complete, the ser= ver the User Agent connects to must authenticate itself to the User Agent. > =3D=3D=3D > =20 > Thanks > Ben > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On 22 Oct 2015, at 08:56, Ben Niven-Jenkins wrot= e: > =20 > The Redirection Interface defined in this document might be used to redire= ct a request where the User Agent will subsequently attempt to establish a T= LS session with the Redirection Target. In such a case, any surrogate or req= uest router to which the User Agent is redirected needs to be able to succes= sfully complete the TLS handshake and to perform encryption of the TLS chann= el. > =20 > The private key for the host in the RT is needed in order to successfully e= stablish a TLS session. The most widespread mechanism currently used by (non= -interconnected) CDNs is for the owner of the host in the RT sharing their p= rivate key with their CDN(s) of choice. In cases where the owner of the host= is not willing to share their private key, other mechanisms that allow the o= wner to not share their private key are used, for example Keyless SSL [REF].= > =20 > CDNI by definition implies that a Content Provider=E2=80=99s content will b= e delivered by CDNs other than the CDN with which the Content Provider has a= direct business relationship. Therefore, while CDNI does not introduce any n= ew technical requirements on dCDNs when establishing TLS sessions, Content P= roviders may be less willing to have their private key shared with dCDNs tha= n they are with their chosen CDN(s) in a non-interconnected scenario. > =20 > Mechanisms to distribute the required information and/or configuration to s= urrogates and request routers in dCDNs to enable a dCDN to successfully comp= lete TLS handshakes and to perform encryption of the TLS channel for a part= icular host, such as private keys or the URI/IP address of a key server, are= outside the scope of this document. > =20 > [REF] https://blog.cloudflare.com/keyless-ssl-the-nitty-gritty-technical-d= etails/ > =20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > =20 --Apple-Mail-7139D5B5-79ED-4E27-BAFE-7C66974F08E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kevin,

Your proposed text works for me & is better than my original tex= t IMO. 

Ben

Hi All,

 

  I thought I'd propose the alternate text (below), and= see if it meets everyone's needs?

 

thanx!

 

--  Kevin J. Ma

 

The Redirection Interface defined in this document is intend= ed to support delegation of HTTP-based traffic, including TLS encrypted HTTP= S traffic, via DNS or HTTP redirection.  The User Agent request to the uCDN may be made over HTTP, HTTPS, or DNS.  I= n the case of an HTTPS request from the User Agent, the TLS session provides= authentication of the request router sending the response.  In this ca= se, the user agent may be confident that the HTTP redirection over TLS is genuine. In the cases of HTTP (without TLS= ) or DNS redirection, there is no inherent authentication of the request rou= ter.  In these cases, forged responses could be inserted by an attacker= to maliciously redirect the User Agent to an alternate Redirection Target.  In the case of DNS redirect= ion, DNSSEC [ref] could be used to authenticate DNS responses, however, conf= iguration of DNSSEC is outside the scope of this document.=

 

In all three of the above cases, either HTTP or HTTPS could b= e used to connect to the Redirection Target.  If the Redirection Target= URL uses HTTPS, the Redirection Target needs to be able to successfully complete the TLS handshake and perform encryption o= f the TLS channel.  Mechanisms to distribute the required information a= nd/or configuration, such as private keys, to surrogates and request routers= in dCDNs are outside the scope of this document.

 

 

From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2015 3:03 AM
To: Niven-Jenkins Ben
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [CDNi] Jon's commet on draft-ietf-cdni-redirection<= /o:p>

 

Hi Ben,

 

Minor editorial suggestions:

 

The redirection interface defined in this document en= ables a uCDN to return to a User Agent a DNS response on behalf of= a dCDN. If DNSSEC is deployed, a User Agent can authenticate the DNS r= esponses it receives, enabling it to distinguish between genuine (redirection) responses and malicious (redirectio= n) responses . Without DNSSEC a User Agent is unable to detect a malicious D= NS redirect.  HTTPS redirection provides an additional layer of au= thentication via TLS because in order for the TLS handshake to complete, the server to which the User Agent connects needs to= authenticate itself to the User Agent.

 

Cheers

 

Francois

 

 

On 27 Oct 2015, at 22:14, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote:=

 

Hi Jon,

 

Would the following text address your comments, feel f= ree to wordsmith it to your liking.

 

=3D=3D=3D

The redirection interface defined in this document en= ables a uCDN to return

a DNS response on behalf of a dCDN. If DNSSEC is= deployed

User Agents can authenticate the DNS responses they r= eceive, enabling them to distinguish between genuine responses (redirec= tions) and malicious responses (redirections). Without DNSSEC a User Agent i= s unable to detect a malicious DNS redirect.  HTTPS redirection provides an additional layer of authentication via T= LS because in order for the TLS handshake to complete, the server the U= ser Agent connects to must authenticate itself to the User Agent.=

=3D=3D=3D

 

Thanks

Ben

 

 

 

 



On 22 Oct 2015, at 08:56, Ben Niven-Jenkins <ben@niven-jenkins.co.uk> wrote:=

 

The Redirection Interface defined in this= document might be used to redirect a request where the User Agent will subs= equently attempt to establish a TLS session with the Redirection Target. In such a case, any surrogate or request router to whic= h the User Agent is redirected needs to be able to successfully complete the= TLS handshake and to perform encryption of the TLS channel.

 

The private key for the host in the RT is= needed in order to successfully establish a TLS session. The most widesprea= d mechanism currently used by (non-interconnected) CDNs is for the owner of the host in the RT sharing their private key with their= CDN(s) of choice. In cases where the owner of the host is not willing to sh= are their private key, other mechanisms that allow the owner to not share th= eir private key are used, for example Keyless SSL [REF].

 

CDNI by definition implies that a Content= Provider=E2=80=99s content will be delivered by CDNs other than the CDN wit= h which the Content Provider has a direct business relationship. Therefore, while CDNI does not introduce any new technical requirements on d= CDNs when establishing TLS sessions, Content Providers may be less willing t= o have their private key shared with dCDNs than they are with their chosen C= DN(s) in a non-interconnected scenario.

 

Mechanisms to distribute the required inf= ormation and/or configuration to surrogates and request routers in dCDNs to e= nable a dCDN to successfully complete TLS handshakes and to perform encryption of the TLS channel for a particular host, such as= private keys or the URI/IP address of a key server, are outside the scope o= f this document.

 

 

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/cdni

 

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bGFzcz0iIj4NCi0gMy4xOiBTUy5TIC0gZG9lcyB0aGF0IGltcGx5IGEgdGltZSBncmFudWxhcml0 eSBvZiAxMDBtcz8gJm5ic3A7SWY8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQpzbywgcGxlYXNlIHNheSBzby48YnIg Y2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQotIDMuNC40OiBjcy11cmk6IHBsZWFzZSBub3QgdGhh dCB0aGVzZSBjYW4gYmUgcHJpdmFjeTxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCnNlbnNpdGl2ZSwgdGhvdWdoIHBy ZXN1bWFibHkgbGVzcyBzbyB0aGFuIGUuZy4gJm5ic3A7bG9nZ2VkIFVSSXMgb248YnIgY2xhc3M9 IiI+DQphIHNlYXJjaCBlbmdpbmUuPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KPGJyIGNsYXNzPSIiPg0KLSAzLjQu NDogZm9vLXVyaTogZG8gdGhlc2UgY29udGFpbiBmcmFnbWVudHMgb3Igbm90PzxiciBjbGFzcz0i Ij4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjxiciBjbGFzcz0iIj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0K PC9kaXY+DQo8YnIgY2xhc3M9IiI+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_50381CDF6A404447846F217E31934D6Aciscocom_-- From nobody Sun Nov 22 09:54:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360E01ACDC7; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 09:54:20 -0800 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localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0K6GVptTwyRW; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:54:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.91] (unknown [86.46.27.72]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F11CCBE35; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:54:09 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1448214852; bh=dP8FiJnVkMNL2fc/3ROw5LVxdNl/9G9gGAUi0mfe2rA=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=f6VcNJT5n7HiZsgFACibFdwaxmy4qt3Ff6WkkLi8D8hYmv5m+ayfCew69LEJ9wlDX G6ryHgtgt10nIzybE8iU1ryE9hVFQAlibwAMn1cJq1u4ucAHeaL0OcucoQcSKGnpmP ai2Vx5ClfpiPC2o19Ar3J1JW3JAPqtvTDC1cWPr0= To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" References: <20151109165118.779.25437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <50381CDF-6A40-4447-846F-217E31934D6A@cisco.com> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <56520141.8010806@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:54:09 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <50381CDF-6A40-4447-846F-217E31934D6A@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "cdni@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-cdni-logging@ietf.org" , The IESG , "cdni-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-21: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:54:20 -0000 Hiya, Sure placing the text wherever makes sense if of course fine, Cheers, S On 22/11/15 16:57, Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) wrote: > Hello Stephen. > > Thanks for this update to your DISCUSS and COMMENTS. > It all makes sense. Specific responses/resolution discussed below: > > > (5) I'm not clear why you need to be able to send HTTP header > values or session IDs via this i/f. Why is that needed? And > it seems very dangerous, e.g. "cs(COOKIE)" could be a doosy. > I would suggest adding new text in section 3.4 to cover all > of the log content basically saying that you really need to > know what you're doing or you can break security very easily. > > That makes sense. > > Some suggested text that could be added to the end of 3.4 > just before the start of 3.4.1: > > Since the text below is specific to HTTP, I would lean for including it under 3.4.1 ("HTTP Request Logging Record”) rather than under 3.4 which is meant to apply to any log (possibly of other protocols than HTTP). > > There is a discussion under 3.4.1 about which fields MUSt be included and which one MAY. I think right after that would be an ideal place to add the text below. > > Let me know if that does not work. > > > > "Logging fields > > s/Logging fields/Logging some fields/ > since some fields are not very dangerous. > > from HTTP requests and responses can be > very dangerous. For example, cookies will often contain > (months) long lived bearer token > > This is a bit beyond my expertise, but I wonder if “bearer” is needed here: > s/bearer token/token/ ? > because I think the discussion here is meant to be generic while "bearer token" is a specific form of token. > Or is “bearer token” really the appropriate term in this generic sentence? > > values that can be used > to login to a service as the relevant user. Similar values > may be included in other header fields or within URLs or > elsewhere in HTTP requests and responses. Centralising > such values in a log > > s/log/CDNI Logging File/ > > can therefore represent a significant > increase in risk both for the user and the web service > provider, but also for the CDNs involved. Implementations > ought therefore attempt to lower the probability of such > bad outcomes e.g. by only allowing a configured set of > headers to be added to logs > > s/logs/CDNI Logging Records/ > > , or by not supporting wildcard > selection of HTTP request/response fields to add. Such > mechanisms can reduce the probability that security (or > privacy) sensitive values are centralised in logs.” > > s/logs/CDNI Logging Files/ > > I suggest that , in addition to recommendations for implementations, we also add recommendations for CDN operators: > “Similarly, when agreeing on which HTTP request/response fields are to be provided in CDNI Logging Files, the uCDN and dCDN administrators ought to consider these risks." > > > > I'm sure that can be improved on, and have no problem with > any specific better words. > > (6) cleared > > (7) cleared > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - in the description of c-groupid, "the address > with a shared secret that is pre-synchronised > and rotated at a predefined time interval" isn't > very clear. I know what you mean but I don't > think you state it very clearly. Could be that a > bit of text earlier in the document that describes > the basic idea would be better than doing it all > inline as you have in -21. > > Right. > We need to do some word tweaking on this anyways, so we’ll try address that. > > > OLD COMMENTS Below, not updated for -21, I didn't > check if you took 'em on board, feel free to chat about > 'em if that's useful - I'm happy to do so anyway. > > Those have been addressed in earlier versions. > > Here is the message I sent about those back in July in case you want to check the detailed resolution: > > > From: Francois Le Faucheur > > Subject: Re: Stephen Farrell's Discuss on draft-ietf-cdni-logging-15: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > Date: 19 July 2015 18:39:38 CEST > To: Stephen Farrell > > Cc: Le Faucheur Francois >, The IESG >, cdni-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-cdni-logging@ietf.org > > Hi Stephen, > > Responses to the COMMENT part below: > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's > privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of > the end user (a person) > > With anonymization now being a SHOULD, I thought Richard’s DISCUSS was addressed (apart from the potential need to add port anonymization as discussed separately for your own DISCUSS). > > > - 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed? > > Aggregated logs for segmented content is a tricky concept, for which there is no standard today and many potential ways to do it, and which the Working Group has elected to keep for a next version of the logging spec (just so that we can come up with a base CDNI logging spec _relatively_ quickly ). > So the only sure way to support interoperabilty across CDNs for logs of segmented content is to provide per-chunk log, hence the statement that those always need to be generated. > > > > - 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean? > > This terminology is likely inherited from the TV/Video era, meaning in particular tracking how big a population watches which movie/video. > Given the more general applicability here, how about we replace by something like “develop statistics on content download”? > > > - 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe > > Certainly, but this is not a Security Considerations section: section 2.2.5 discussing Log Consuming applications. And 2.2.5.4 is discussing one such application which is to detect violation of content access policy. > > > - 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd > > With respect to Content Protection (the subject of 2.2.5.4) unauthorised user is indeed the enemy, aiming at stealing some content from the CDNs. > > > - 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, > but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about > that is better. > > This is fixed in -19 which now says: > "Terminal type (mobile, PC, STB, if this information can be > acquired from the browser type inferred from the User Agent > string, for example). > " > > - 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms? If > so, please say so. > > As a result of another IESG review comment, we have replaced our own definition of time by a reference to RFC3339. > > “ > TIME = 2DIGIT ":" 2DIGIT ":" 2DIGIT ["." *DIGIT] > ; Times are encoded as "partial-time" specified in [RFC3339]. > " > > So that point should be fixed already. > > > > - 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy > sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g. logged URIs on > a search engine. > > Is this just for our information or do you recommend that we add a statement about the fact that cs-uri can be privacy sensitive? > If IP/ports are anonymised, is cs-uri still privacy sensitive (is this in case the uri itself contains some information that can be traced back to a given end-user? > > > > - 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not? > > In a per-chunk log (which is specified in this document as the interoperable mechanism to exchange logs for fragmented content), the uri contains the URI of each specific fragment. > In an aggregated log for a segmented content delivery (which is not specified in this document), there are many potential options (URI of first segment, URI of the playlist, part of the URI common to all segments,….). This is one of the complexities of specifying aggregated logs for segmented content. > > > > > - I support Richard's discuss. Isn't it ironic that the dCDN's > privacy (that of a company) is better supported than that of > the end user (a person) > > - 2.2.1 - why is per-chunk always needed? > > - 2.2.5.3: what's "track audience" mean? > > - 2.2.5.4: there are more security goals in the universe > > - 2.2.5.4: seems like the user is the enemy, that's odd > > - 2.2.5.6.2: there is no "browser type header" that I know of, > but there is the well-known UA string. Being specific about > that is better. > > - 3.1: SS.S - does that imply a time granularity of 100ms? If > so, please say so. > > - 3.4.4: cs-uri: please not that these can be privacy > sensitive, though presumably less so than e.g. logged URIs on > a search engine. > > - 3.4.4: foo-uri: do these contain fragments or not? > > > From nobody Sun Nov 22 19:28:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371081B2F5F; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.422 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.422 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ynxNaYu0xw2E; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk0-x229.google.com (mail-vk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0F761B2F66; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by vkha189 with SMTP id a189so29574436vkh.2; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=22U1CoegvMPoB2hR6Kqg7yCWD9TorBZXnI1uEMZ8scU=; b=MIKJjVNZn8ahV1wwcFgUaBOaqUCVmcALZ8KQm68vxb7JRNIBviz+Odv6IXvh+IeAk6 qsL6e2JtBDJXH/6cP/yQHbE2wjJkWQWiXlP4oihm5i9oI0950jzbdd2uHCiULzyXlr+7 StEaFVjGHM9pBSiEChlGoRfrvqtICi191Oe0iZLaGUjvWUoshHJSYABdX/hj0YT6glQE vC34KrFmajWK1//TuyKjXw0N4WnGX9Vmfcwts2htmUY8DJ2vzQhnUR2jJdZBRMQAWS9G RkcpCzEj12pdeB2esQ8xB+Y/CjJaK9Q2wAtwuHmADzYsc+/fP83cldFe75VKksgBulT9 mO9g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.41.131 with SMTP id p125mr15963451vkp.133.1448249299036; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:19 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.31.182.135 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:28:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2015 22:28:18 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: t1cYKOoVFBIJlOqC2gfRQLJUkWs Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 03:28:22 -0000 My apologies for the long delay in handling this publication request: I've had a month straight of travel, including a little personal vacation at the beginning and end. I'm back and running full steam, and reviewing the backlog of publication requests from several working groups. Thanks for the patience. I have a number of comments below. Almost all of them are minor editorial things that wouldn't delay last call, but because there are quite a few and because a couple of them are things I'm questioning (the comment on "match-query-string" and the one about the references), I'd like to get the list resolved and a new I-D posted before I request last call. None of it's a big deal, and we should be able to take care of it quickly. Of course, if you have any questions about any of my comments, or disagree with any of them, please discuss them with me. Section 2 starts off using "uCDN" and "dCDN", which are not defined in 6707. You do mention 7336 (where they are defined in a sort of "by the way" manner) in the Introduction, but I'm not sure readers would know to look there for those terms. I suggest this change to Section 1.1, echoing what 7336 does (it's a pity that they're not in 6707): OLD This document reuses the terminology defined in [RFC6707]. NEW This document reuses the terminology defined in [RFC6707], and uses "uCDN" and "dCDN" as shorthand for "Upstream CDN" and "Downstream CDN", respectively. END -- Section 2 -- There are two types of CI/T Command, CI/T Trigger Commands and CI/T Cancel Commands. The comma isn't strong enough here; it should be a colon (":"). Also, throughout the document, please check for consistent capitalization of those three terms. I noticed at least one instance of "CI/T cancel command" in Section 4.3, and there might be others. -- Section 4.1 -- The dCDN validates the CI/T Command, if it is malformed or the uCDN does not have sufficient access rights it MUST either respond with an appropriate 4xx HTTP error code and a Trigger Status Resource MUST NOT be created on the dCDN, or create a 'failed' Trigger Status Resource containing an appropriate error description. This starts with a comma splice and goes on to be oddly worded. May I suggest this?: NEW The dCDN validates the CI/T Command. If the command is malformed or the uCDN does not have sufficient access rights, the dCDN MUST either respond with an appropriate 4xx HTTP error code and not create a Trigger Status Resource, or create a 'failed' Trigger Status Resource containing an appropriate error description. END The HTTP response SHOULD include the content of the newly created Trigger Status Resource, this is recommended particularly in cases where the CI/T Trigger Command has completed immediately. I don't like the "recommended particularly" along with the "SHOULD" -- remember that "SHOULD" and "RECOMMENDED" are synonymous (and there's also a comma splice here). I suggest this: NEW The HTTP response SHOULD include the content of the newly created Trigger Status Resource. This is particularly important in cases where the CI/T Trigger Command has completed immediately. END (If "important" isn't quite right, maybe "significant"?) -- Section 4.2 -- To check for change in status of a Trigger Status Resource or collection of Trigger Status Resources without re-fetching the whole Resource or Collection, Entity Tags SHOULD be included by the dCDN for the uCDN to use as cache validators, as defined in [RFC7232]. The dCDN doesn't include those tags to check for change in status. It includes them to allow the uCDN to check for change in status. NEW To allow the uCDN to check for change in status of a Trigger Status Resource or collection of Trigger Status Resources without re-fetching the whole Resource or Collection, the dCDN SHOULD include Entity Tags for the uCDN to use as cache validators, as defined in [RFC7232]. END -- Section 4.3 -- Cancellation of a CI/T Trigger Command is optional-to-implement in the dCDN. I was initially uncertain about this: it could be read two ways (it could be read to mean that the dCDN doesn't have to implement the Cancel Command at all), so it's probably best to be clear (even though one can get that from the next paragraph). NEW The dCDN is required to accept and respond to the CI/T Cancel Command, but the actual cancellation of a CI/T Trigger Command is optional-to-implement. END Or something like that.... -- Section 4.8 -- The section starts with "therefore". What's the antecedent of "therefore"? Is that a vestige of something that used to be there? Should "therefore" be removed, or should something be re-worded? -- Section 5.2.4 -- Name: case-sensitive Description: Flag indicating whether or not case-sensitive matching should be used. Value: One of the JSON values 'true' or 'false'. Mandatory: No, default is case-insensitive match. I think this is properly specified as it is, so you can ignore this comment if you prefer, but I'd rather see the descriptions whack the reader in the face, rather than make anyone guess what "true" or "false" correspond to: NEW Name: case-sensitive Description: Flag indicating whether or not case-sensitive matching should be used. Value: One of the JSON values 'true' (the matching is case- sensitive) or 'false' (the matching is case-insensitive). Mandatory: No, default is 'false', a case-insensitive match. END Name: match-query-string Description: Flag indicating whether or not the query string should be included in the pattern match. I don't understand what this means; sorry. Can you explain? -- Section 5.2.5 -- A JSON number, seconds since the UNIX epoch. Because you don't have a reference cited here, it'd be good to say what the UNIX epoch is. Even with a reference, it's easy to say it, and it avoids making the reader look it up: NEW A JSON number, seconds since the UNIX epoch, 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970. END -- Section 6 -- Thanks for the comprehensive examples; I think that's very useful. I'm not sure how much it matters (I'm sure some picky person will submit errata reports), but I don't get the same content-length values that you do on any of the examples. Please be sure the content-length values match the data as indented and with all displayed whitespace, with assumption of {CR,LF} at the end of each line. -- References -- I think three references need to be moved from informative to normative: - RFC 2818 is the subject of a MUST in Section 8.1 - RFC 6707 provides necessary terminology - draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl defines the formal language used in Section 5.3 If you disagree, please tell me why. Of course, that means that draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl will block publication of this document until it's ready. -- Barry From nobody Mon Nov 23 02:29:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14A31A8A8F; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:29:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.086 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UdFcgxrcOv1N; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 396BD1A8A97; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:29:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1339; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1448274585; x=1449484185; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=Rw9D8L73fECrv2/Xts5RT/M54ekH8MelTqiWCKtQAfI=; b=h9Y0BlLq0/QJB56fWNvA9oQLwxVoleY9sFsJ2FrdAVTqllDau/JvTNOO jeTo8MPMH9jXr7cmxdYhmj1gppHyvfJSy2rhEpZGcoG9DfhZNwNOcZJ9p 4xB0x2iXFdHo1JC8Wy8nnANxKU7nmzc/H6f00DVgZr5KgwNZtag/B4bbD I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D9AQCH6VJW/5BdJa1egztTbwa/FQENg?= =?us-ascii?q?WUXCoVuAoE3OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqENQEBBAEBATc0CxACAQg2ECcLJQIEAQ0FiC4?= =?us-ascii?q?NvX0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEUBIZVgg+CboRZg0uBFQEEllABjTCBW?= =?us-ascii?q?4RAli8BHwEBQoQEcoQkgQcBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.20,336,1444694400"; d="scan'208";a="211355515" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Nov 2015 10:29:44 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (xch-aln-019.cisco.com [173.36.7.29]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tANATitm001283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:29:44 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-ALN-019.cisco.com (173.36.7.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:29:43 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:29:43 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: Barry Leiba , "draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 Thread-Index: AQHRJZ8JwFr5i6PyG0yPX0sx8xlL6Z6pzRKA Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:29:43 +0000 Message-ID: <4E03EFB1-E57B-47DE-BDAE-8463A0CBBC56@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.155.24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "" Subject: Re: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:29:46 -0000 Barry, authors, >=20 > -- References -- > I think three references need to be moved from informative to normative: > - RFC 2818 is the subject of a MUST in Section 8.1 > - RFC 6707 provides necessary terminology > - draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl defines the formal language > used in Section 5.3 >=20 > If you disagree, please tell me why. >=20 > Of course, that means that draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl will > block publication of this document until it's ready. It seems undesirable to create a dependency: * whose timing and potentially even outcome (given the document is not eve= n yet a working group document) is out of our control and=20 * that is not strictly necessary (my understanding is that draft-greevenbo= sch-appsawg-cbor-cddl is referenced and used simply to facilitate descripti= on).=20 Would it be possible to remove the dependency somehow? For example, perhaps cdni-control-trigger could redefine the subset of nota= tional conventions needed (and simply reference draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-= cbor-cddl for Information as backgrounds on what these conventions are insp= ired from ? Cheers Francois > -- > Barry >=20 > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni From nobody Mon Nov 23 02:48:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59E251B2B85 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:48:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.085 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.085 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0IBnwzKIQ7XJ for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5C211ACD38 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 02:48:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12609; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1448275717; x=1449485317; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version; bh=+XkjCb2pAVooc1IFgoItQ0jh25tK3lxK3QmnjRb01KU=; b=EMADMYD8Hoj3EPkt6wXyQv1GQXW15gplxAQtAY/KPIeMC/9f3j8XHBkr 9EH2s5prH6RxKPXtmtWmrPyFpF0WlWvcFPsgqym6fUrN1nrztFy1EfmjC KXemOlH3lxfyToS5wbsdcsnxX/wNVj2n2GNY308Z84fmisnStxSwtf7Mv U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D+AQD+7VJW/4wNJK1egztTbwawHo55A?= =?us-ascii?q?Q2BZRcBC4VsAoE3OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqENAEBAQQBAQFrFwQCARkDAQEBKAcnCxQ?= =?us-ascii?q?JCAIEE4guDb14AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGIZVgg+FCIJhFoMTgRUFk?= =?us-ascii?q?muDZQF/hCSIDQWBVkmDd41biFQBHwEBQoJEgUByAYQjgQcBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.20,336,1444694400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="49254083" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 23 Nov 2015 10:48:36 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (xch-aln-016.cisco.com [173.36.7.26]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id tANAmaeM015887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:48:36 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) by XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (173.36.7.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:48:36 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com ([173.37.102.30]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:48:36 -0600 From: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" To: "" Thread-Topic: Start of Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt Thread-Index: AQHRJdyBLvQ6Xlnxak2cnXpwz3ouvg== Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:48:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.155.24] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E0E8302C02D843B88600A2C5EB8174B9ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [CDNi] Start of Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:48:40 -0000 --_000_E0E8302C02D843B88600A2C5EB8174B9ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, This starts a 2-week Working Group Last Call on draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-c= apabilities-semantics-09.txt. The Last Call will end on 7 December. For memory, this is in line with the plan agreed in Yokohama (i.e. go to W= GLC on the next rev addressing the few remaining open items identified duri= ng the meeting). Cheers Francois Begin forwarded message: From: Kevin Ma J > Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-sema= ntics-09.txt Date: 4 November 2015 06:22:45 CET To: "cdni@ietf.org" > Hi all, As mentioned in the CDNI session this morning, this is the update to the F= CI semantics draft: - removed c-ip-anonymizing - updated the security considerations - made RFC5226 a normative reference At this point (as an author), we believe that the document is complete and= ready for WG last call. thanx! -- Kevin J. Ma -----Original Message----- From: CDNi [mailto:cdni-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- drafts@ietf.org Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:16 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: cdni@ietf.org Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- semantics-09.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks Interconnection Working Group of the IETF. Title : CDNI Request Routing: Footprint and Capabilities Semantics Authors : Jan Seedorf Jon Peterson Stefano Previdi Ray van Brandenburg Kevin J. Ma Filename : draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics- 09.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2015-11-03 Abstract: This document captures the semantics of the "Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement" part of the CDNI Request Routing interface, i.e., the desired meaning of "Footprint" and "Capabilities" in the CDNI context, and what the "Footprint and Capabilities Advertisement Interface (FCI)" offers within CDNI. The document also provides guidelines for the CDNI FCI protocol. It further defines a Base Advertisement Object, the necessary registries for capabilities and footprints, and guidelines how these registries may be extended in the future. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- semantics/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- semantics-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- semantics-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni _______________________________________________ CDNi mailing list CDNi@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni --_000_E0E8302C02D843B88600A2C5EB8174B9ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7070DD906EF3DA439E91FF1A7BA1FDF6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,

This starts a 2-week Working Group Last Call on draft-= ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt.

The Last Call will end on 7 December.

 For memory, this is in line with the plan agreed in Y= okohama (i.e. go to WGLC on the next rev addressing the few remaining open = items identified during the meeting).

Cheers

Francois



Begin forwarded message:

From: Kevin Ma J <kevin.j.ma@ericsson.com>
Subject: Re: [CDNi] I-D Action: dr= aft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-semantics-09.txt
Date: 4 November 2015 06:22:45 CET
To: "cdni@ietf.org" <cdni@ietf.org>

Hi all,

 As mentioned in the CDNI session this morning, this is the update to = the FCI semantics draft:

 - removed c-ip-anonymizing
 - updated the security considerations
 - made RFC5226 a normative reference

 At this point (as an author), we believe that the document is complet= e and ready for WG last call.

thanx!

--  Kevin J. Ma

-----Original Message-----
From: CDNi [mailto:cdni= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-
drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:16 AM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: cdni@ietf.org
Subject: [CDNi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-
semantics-09.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Content Delivery Networks
Interconnection Working Group of the IETF.

       Title     &nb= sp;     : CDNI Request Routing: Footprint and Capa= bilities
Semantics
       Authors     &= nbsp;   : Jan Seedorf
            &nb= sp;            = Jon Peterson
            &nb= sp;            = Stefano Previdi
            &nb= sp;            = Ray van Brandenburg
            &nb= sp;            = Kevin J. Ma
Filename &n= bsp;      : draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabil= ities-semantics-
09.txt
Pages  = ;         : 21
Date  =           : 2015-11-03
Abstract:
  This document captures the semantics of the "Footprint and=
  Capabilities Advertisement" part of the CDNI Request Routi= ng
  interface, i.e., the desired meaning of "Footprint" a= nd
  "Capabilities" in the CDNI context, and what the &quo= t;Footprint and
  Capabilities Advertisement Interface (FCI)" offers within = CDNI.  The
  document also provides guidelines for the CDNI FCI protocol. &n= bsp;It
  further defines a Base Advertisement Object, the necessary regi= stries
  for capabilities and footprints, and guidelines how these regis= tries
  may be extended in the future.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities- semantics/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-
semantics-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-cdni-footprint-capabilities-=
semantics-09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

--_000_E0E8302C02D843B88600A2C5EB8174B9ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 23 04:12:17 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419851A1BE6; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:12:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.585, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHye6COf2ieu; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:12:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CCE21A1BDE; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:12:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 57743EEE58F35; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:12:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id tANCCAhN023766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:12:11 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.2.107]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:12:11 +0100 From: "Murray, Rob (Rob)" To: "Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" , Barry Leiba , "draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 Thread-Index: AQHRJZ8D9/0Hw3Y/PEq5nHDFF6Eq/p6pV7qAgAAcnoA= Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:12:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4E03EFB1-E57B-47DE-BDAE-8463A0CBBC56@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4E03EFB1-E57B-47DE-BDAE-8463A0CBBC56@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/0.0.0.151105 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4C149179C7D57344ABB5AA82CBD8FC29@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "" Subject: Re: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:12:16 -0000 DQoNCg0KDQoNCk9uIDIzLzExLzIwMTUsIDEwOjI5LCAiQ0ROaSBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgRnJhbmNv aXMgTGUgRmF1Y2hldXIgKGZsZWZhdWNoKSIgPGNkbmktYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhh bGYgb2YgZmxlZmF1Y2hAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPkJhcnJ5LCBhdXRob3JzLA0KPg0K Pg0KPj4gDQo+PiAtLSBSZWZlcmVuY2VzIC0tDQo+PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRocmVlIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMg bmVlZCB0byBiZSBtb3ZlZCBmcm9tIGluZm9ybWF0aXZlIHRvIG5vcm1hdGl2ZToNCj4+IC0gUkZD IDI4MTggaXMgdGhlIHN1YmplY3Qgb2YgYSBNVVNUIGluIFNlY3Rpb24gOC4xDQo+PiAtIFJGQyA2 NzA3IHByb3ZpZGVzIG5lY2Vzc2FyeSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neQ0KPj4gLSBkcmFmdC1ncmVldmVuYm9z Y2gtYXBwc2F3Zy1jYm9yLWNkZGwgZGVmaW5lcyB0aGUgZm9ybWFsIGxhbmd1YWdlDQo+PiB1c2Vk IGluIFNlY3Rpb24gNS4zDQo+PiANCj4+IElmIHlvdSBkaXNhZ3JlZSwgcGxlYXNlIHRlbGwgbWUg d2h5Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBPZiBjb3Vyc2UsIHRoYXQgbWVhbnMgdGhhdCBkcmFmdC1ncmVldmVuYm9z Y2gtYXBwc2F3Zy1jYm9yLWNkZGwgd2lsbA0KPj4gYmxvY2sgcHVibGljYXRpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBk b2N1bWVudCB1bnRpbCBpdCdzIHJlYWR5Lg0KPg0KPkl0IHNlZW1zIHVuZGVzaXJhYmxlIHRvIGNy ZWF0ZSBhIGRlcGVuZGVuY3k6DQo+CSogd2hvc2UgdGltaW5nIGFuZCBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSBldmVu IG91dGNvbWUgKGdpdmVuIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBub3QgZXZlbiB5ZXQgYSB3b3JraW5nIGdy b3VwIGRvY3VtZW50KSBpcyBvdXQgb2Ygb3VyIGNvbnRyb2wgYW5kIA0KPgkqIHRoYXQgaXMgbm90 IHN0cmljdGx5IG5lY2Vzc2FyeSAobXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBpcyB0aGF0IGRyYWZ0LWdyZWV2 ZW5ib3NjaC1hcHBzYXdnLWNib3ItY2RkbCBpcyByZWZlcmVuY2VkIGFuZCB1c2VkIHNpbXBseSB0 byBmYWNpbGl0YXRlIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uKS4gDQo+DQo+V291bGQgaXQgYmUgcG9zc2libGUgdG8g cmVtb3ZlIHRoZSBkZXBlbmRlbmN5IHNvbWVob3c/DQo+Rm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIHBlcmhhcHMgY2Ru aS1jb250cm9sLXRyaWdnZXIgY291bGQgcmVkZWZpbmUgdGhlIHN1YnNldCBvZiBub3RhdGlvbmFs IGNvbnZlbnRpb25zIG5lZWRlZCAoYW5kIHNpbXBseSByZWZlcmVuY2UgZHJhZnQtZ3JlZXZlbmJv c2NoLWFwcHNhd2ctY2Jvci1jZGRsIGZvciBJbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhcyBiYWNrZ3JvdW5kcyBvbiB3 aGF0IHRoZXNlIGNvbnZlbnRpb25zIGFyZSBpbnNwaXJlZCBmcm9tID8NCg0KV2UgY291bGQganVz dCBkcm9wIHRoZSAiY2RkbCIgZm9ybWFsaXNhdGlvbj8gSSBwdXQgaXQgaW4gYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBt aWdodCBiZSB1c2VmdWwgdG8gc29tZW9uZSBhbmQgQ2Fyc3RlbiBoYWQgYWxyZWFkeSBkb25lIHRo ZSB3b3JrIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgaGlzIHJldmlldywgdG8gY3Jvc3MtY2hlY2sgdGhhdCB0aGUgZGVz Y3JpcHRpb24gb2YgdGhlIEpTT04gc3RydWN0dXJlcyBpcyBjb25zaXN0ZW50LiBJdCdzIG5vdCBl c3NlbnRpYWwgdG8gdGhlIGRlZmluaXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIGludGVyZmFjZS4NCg0KKFRoYW5rIHlv dSBmb3IgYWxsIHRoZSBjb21tZW50cyBCYXJyeSwgSSdsbCB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayB0aHJvdWdoIGFu ZCByZXNwb25kIHNvb24gYXMgSSBjYW4uKQ0KDQpSb2IuDQoNCj4NCj4NCj5DaGVlcnMNCj4NCj5G cmFuY29pcw0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPj4gLS0NCj4+IEJhcnJ5DQo+PiANCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiBDRE5pIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K Pj4gQ0ROaUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9jZG5pDQo+DQo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCj5DRE5pIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPkNETmlAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2NkbmkNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 23 04:13:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCF31A6F8B; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:13:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B441NObs6N4o; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailex.mailcore.me (mailex.mailcore.me [94.136.40.145]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882D21A6F04; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 04:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from bcde2b5f.skybroadband.com ([188.222.43.95] helo=[192.168.0.4]) by smtp04.mailcore.me with esmtpa (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1a0q0D-000CjO-4u; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:13:49 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_50A30EBA-7426-48ED-89B2-D3AE1F8FA04A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) From: Ben Niven-Jenkins In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:13:47 +0000 Message-Id: <26397C1C-6E49-4390-97F3-2C34355864DB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <4E03EFB1-E57B-47DE-BDAE-8463A0CBBC56@cisco.com> To: "Murray, Rob (Rob)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-Mailcore-Auth: 9600544 X-Mailcore-Domain: 172912 Archived-At: Cc: "" , Barry Leiba , "draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:13:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_50A30EBA-7426-48ED-89B2-D3AE1F8FA04A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Or if we wanted to keep it we could move it to a non-normative appendix? = Ben > On 23 Nov 2015, at 12:12, Murray, Rob (Rob) = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 23/11/2015, 10:29, "CDNi on behalf of Francois Le Faucheur = (flefauch)" on = behalf of flefauch@cisco.com > wrote: >=20 >> Barry, authors, >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- References -- >>> I think three references need to be moved from informative to = normative: >>> - RFC 2818 is the subject of a MUST in Section 8.1 >>> - RFC 6707 provides necessary terminology >>> - draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl defines the formal language >>> used in Section 5.3 >>>=20 >>> If you disagree, please tell me why. >>>=20 >>> Of course, that means that draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl will >>> block publication of this document until it's ready. >>=20 >> It seems undesirable to create a dependency: >> * whose timing and potentially even outcome (given the document = is not even yet a working group document) is out of our control and=20 >> * that is not strictly necessary (my understanding is that = draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl is referenced and used simply to = facilitate description).=20 >>=20 >> Would it be possible to remove the dependency somehow? >> For example, perhaps cdni-control-trigger could redefine the subset = of notational conventions needed (and simply reference = draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl for Information as backgrounds on = what these conventions are inspired from ? >=20 > We could just drop the "cddl" formalisation? I put it in because it = might be useful to someone and Carsten had already done the work as part = of his review, to cross-check that the description of the JSON = structures is consistent. It's not essential to the definition of the = interface. >=20 > (Thank you for all the comments Barry, I'll take a look through and = respond soon as I can.) >=20 > Rob. >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Francois >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> -- >>> Barry >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CDNi mailing list >>> CDNi@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> CDNi mailing list >> CDNi@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni > _______________________________________________ > CDNi mailing list > CDNi@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni = --Apple-Mail=_50A30EBA-7426-48ED-89B2-D3AE1F8FA04A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Or if we wanted to keep it we could move it to a = non-normative appendix? Ben

On 23 = Nov 2015, at 12:12, Murray, Rob (Rob) <rob.murray@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:






On 23/11/2015, 10:29, "CDNi on behalf of = Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)" <cdni-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of flefauch@cisco.com> wrote:

Barry, authors,



-- References --
I think three = references need to be moved from informative to normative:
-= RFC 2818 is the subject of a MUST in Section 8.1
- RFC = 6707 provides necessary terminology
- = draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl defines the formal language
used in Section 5.3

If you = disagree, please tell me why.

Of course, = that means that draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl will
block publication of this document until it's ready.

It seems undesirable to create a = dependency:
* whose timing and potentially = even outcome (given the document is not even yet a working group = document) is out of our control and 
* that is = not strictly necessary (my understanding is that = draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl is referenced and used simply to = facilitate description). 

Would it be possible to remove the dependency somehow?
For example, perhaps cdni-control-trigger could redefine the = subset of notational conventions needed (and simply reference = draft-greevenbosch-appsawg-cbor-cddl for Information as backgrounds on = what these conventions are inspired from ?

We could just drop the "cddl" formalisation? I = put it in because it might be useful to someone and Carsten had already = done the work as part of his review, to cross-check that the description = of the JSON structures is consistent. It's not essential to the = definition of the interface.

(Thank you for all the = comments Barry, I'll take a look through and respond soon as I = can.)

Rob.



Cheers

Francois



--
Barry

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni
_______________________________________________
CDNi mailing list
CDNi@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cdni

= --Apple-Mail=_50A30EBA-7426-48ED-89B2-D3AE1F8FA04A-- From nobody Mon Nov 23 14:16:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cdni@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC4D1B3B2F; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MYba2wpHRmic; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk0-x22a.google.com (mail-vk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0308C1B3B24; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by vkfr145 with SMTP id r145so48600775vkf.0; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bZOF7UoOqetU3U62jF44NDKtWcj7O/yw/LipueyXT6M=; b=Fusw3wbDR9vVSDSuhiy/8cYY+387cbsjP6eBoSC9bTiSfmIhZQePXoR9+8cpFLdz+r G2WSUTGqtywawbmawCGmfX8mYxN1Rl7FZ44EHY6s8WWwbCseuxb1toDQa04yBLSX1ba8 SPkDBR7J5u1IO5FjRb5MRFEfCuGsaCNo7PKxiHezo+oFizfUa9u4KfY8CAEHsjQra60b g/Uf2RxOsvP/1OJY6NI0+9AY5uBzDes9aS+q2FUFPLhBvZDRTuJf6EqHgwAEndWQBxxR UtoT6/k9z5oWudPFlD/bs+yiScLIN1ua2PcHOauK1OqghK/D3PeRy3Z0K2VzP4PUhha4 /7iA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.41.131 with SMTP id p125mr22196987vkp.133.1448316998201; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.31.182.135 with HTTP; Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <26397C1C-6E49-4390-97F3-2C34355864DB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> References: <4E03EFB1-E57B-47DE-BDAE-8463A0CBBC56@cisco.com> <26397C1C-6E49-4390-97F3-2C34355864DB@niven-jenkins.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:16:38 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: LOH_ff2elzvE41_QgXtieSKU0Yc Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Ben Niven-Jenkins Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "" , "draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [CDNi] AD review of draft-ietf-cdni-control-triggers-09 X-BeenThere: cdni@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss issues associated with the Interconnection of Content Delivery Networks \(CDNs\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 22:16:40 -0000 > Or if we wanted to keep it we could move it to a non-normative appendix? Ben I think that's the best approach. By putting it in an appendix and making it clear that it's provided for information, you can leave the reference as informative. That works well for me. Barry