From nobody Sat Dec 1 04:17:56 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264C112D4EC for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 04:17:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bunkus.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iLWViUySEHs1 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 04:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from adara.bunkus.org (adara.bunkus.org [144.76.6.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AD2612D4F2 for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 04:17:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bunkus.org; s=mail2018100901; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=UCFVJ305/oxXrO5HF9NptSjb2SR21GBiiuJ2GR1FiU4=; b=to/YxpCPoivJVdbLEACtrq0VmLeQXWJNbvZ97HuH/v6gKo6TFID7w9oDuFwCVxpJJ8IiT6RdAWVU+Oqcg+MsNG/Z1w8T1xot7x65QVsX3gxSQVqDgV1pHHQfegauwGw5UdXx2lp+6XNYd8xEse1UKo2hKjRXoHbrmalBqfb6UMM=; Received: from liselle.bunkus.org ([2a01:4f8:190:8147::105:1]:52040) by adara.bunkus.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1gT4DM-0005BQ-1N; Sat, 01 Dec 2018 13:17:40 +0100 Received: from sweet-chili.local (unknown [10.55.5.2]) by liselle.bunkus.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 496076540001; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:17:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from sweet-chili (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sweet-chili.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE465503F94D; Sat, 1 Dec 2018 13:17:33 +0100 (CET) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0202.5C027BE4.0041, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Moritz Bunkus To: help Questions , Cellar list Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 13:17:33 +0100 Message-ID: <87wootl9uq.fsf@bunkus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] MKVToolNix v29.0.0 released X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 12:17:54 -0000 Hey, it's time for MKVToolNix v29.0.0 which fixes a couple of bugs and adds one or two new features. There were two important changes for package managers regarding library dependencies. Please see the NEWS below for details. Here are the usual links: =E2=80=A6to the source code: https://mkvtoolnix.download/source.html =E2=80=A6to the binaries: https://mkvtoolnix.download/downloads.html The Windows and macOS binaries as well as the Linux AppImage are available already. The other Linux binaries are still being built and will be available of the course of the next couple of hours. Here are the NEWS since the previous release: ------------------------------------------------------------ # Version 29.0.0 "Like It Or Not" 2018-12-01 ## Important notes * The string formatting library used was switched from `boost::format` to [`fmt`](http://fmtlib.net/). See the section "Build system changes" for details. ## New features and enhancements * MKVToolNix GUI: added an option in the preferences for disabling automatic scaling for high DPI displays. Implements #2415. * MKVToolNix GUI: the GUI will now prevent the system from going to sleep while the job queue is running. This feature is implemented for macOS, Windows and Linux/Unix systems where the `org.freedesktop.login1.Manager` D-Bus interface is available. Implements #2411. ## Bug fixes * mkvmerge: chapter generation: the start timestamps of chapters generated = in intervals was wrong for files whose smallest video timestamp was bigger t= han 0. Fixes #2432. * mkvmerge: MP4 reader: fixed handling of atoms whose size exceeds the pare= nt atom's size. Fixes #2431. * mkvmerge, MKVToolNix GUI's chapter editor: the chapter name template will now also be used when reading Ogg-style chapter files with empty chapter names. Fixes #2441. * mkvextract: AAC: mkvextract will now write the program config element (PC= E) before the first AAC raw data packet if the PCE is present in the `AudioSpecificConfig` structure in the `Codec Private` Matroska element. = The PCE carries vital information about the number of channels and is required in certain cases. Fixes #2205 and #2433. * mkvpropedit, MKVToolNix GUI's header editor: in situations when a one-byte space must be covered by a new EBML void element the following element mu= st be moved up instead. If that moved element is a cluster, the corresponding cue entries will now be updated to reflect the cluster's new position. Fi= xes #2408. * MKVToolNix GUI: Windows: the application manifest is now included properly so that Windows actually recognizes it. See #2415. ## Build system changes * Qt's D-Bus implementation is now required for building on systems other t= han macOS and Windows, * The `boost::format` library is not used anymore. * The [`fmt` library](http://fmtlib.net/) is now required. Versions 3 and newer are supported. As not all Linux distributions include packages for = the library, its release 5.2.1 comes bundled with MKVToolNix. The `configure` script will check for a system version of the library and use it if prese= nt and recent enough. Otherwise it will fall back to the bundled version and link that statically. ------------------------------------------------------------ Have fun :) mosu From nobody Sun Dec 2 07:44:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E1F127B92 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 07:44:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.358 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.358 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-1.459, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMmMkPZMggm0 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 07:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com (mail-pl1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BF8012F1AC for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 07:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id b5so5170315plr.4 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 07:44:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nujn8Er0/s1L1PWRlLq9wFtwwNuVaU9uAutj7Opw7x8=; b=FUrRz4qgjX5lOETuGLJToBcG+XBfxG1RfOKO7+Um8ULTCSuWMNogJW/atXmERIfAPV sarWZk4oYhqA5pSkFMBRgM89ZfFWCxmZTKYU4KR0rrgzpPw9udjVf+W+3EftVxwdXyVj FoiTPhNOTpZ6FXSkwPCl1M0V7L58J1mQPUo5kFzFJQPKdXnLjvEt7acZ7JGDw72LZR46 Piso3xfiTJpC0nxW6LoXTh4PU8qrLwll4e3ZlcqJ0OI6q6x6jVS8WlEKpFGjLHk+VB1r M5il8lJR2aoXSXuzOIMMwr4D2BjZeQcn0SBftXWnV28/Kmk8U5pHymDUo6JaXqmfyGg3 3fEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nujn8Er0/s1L1PWRlLq9wFtwwNuVaU9uAutj7Opw7x8=; b=cAe6VPC6SE/UUePcTffJNYnqeHiJ6+3VeEICrJOCQLpX0A92AKsfL2q6tCOYrxKT0B YfegEVfRh+wYHgpNrRgG6dZ4BFF1JtX3gtYq5v1oqUpMAAeshW6ReYY/HHGdg10IkGMc Isif7lnuEd/kb8ADe2uCZMgW+5I5wgyA4k/5+v9o2ENlSsFKfd8R7RR0c8QHJAzHYmPa 2CqHMex0o88tFO5MgQKSlQY2mpD4yBZ4+TsOTWiGsKvK9OIyX35XQkdQG82XHFoVP2jf gfmuxQfu+C20sipd5fNjlntx8zK2Ix5IYJhHi89CWhC1XoTmTOkJk/2dmP2rgvzEEQIR nSQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWaTos/XjrLn0nZ4GJ6MtX3hWX+sWh4uXXSBN7JtGxxaiSIIZXY/ d5Iw602N2LDd+IzAlauqEu3+n8G5QdU2u3H/koiCCA9kvABrCw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V46t+u9sWPwN31UlNog9JWrFXrAYhxODkdqy+HF1ed90XF7HENisrirqpXiGNVMqDXmO/1fGVyQZ8Yoppa8cI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8a8a:: with SMTP id p10mr12859068plo.50.1543765486015; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 07:44:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <353D4CFD-370C-4509-B7BE-3D572EC2DEFB@dericed.com> In-Reply-To: From: Steve Lhomme Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 16:44:35 +0100 Message-ID: To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Mapping of MOV clean aperture values to Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2018 15:44:50 -0000 Hello, For VLC the values are read but they are likely lost along the way to the display by the decoder or the video output. You may try this file to check if your video output in VLC supports cropping: http://v2v.cc/~j/theora_testsuite/offset_test.ogv This illustrates the issue with cropping at the container level (and ffmpeg) the container may have some values set but some codecs also have such info and may overwrite this value. And there's not really any way to tell who is write. It may depend on the codec and the container. In Matroska we assume that we override what the codec says. But I don't think that's how it's handled in ffmpeg. Also there's the question of what these values apply to: on the decoded surface, which may include padding on the right/bottom or the area that's supposed to be visible. In Matroska the "PixelWidth/PixelHeight" correspond to the visible area, on which we apply extra cropping. (this is currently not written anywhere). As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that it's some cropping ? Is it in the supposedly visible area or a supposedly padded area (which may not correspond in ffmpeg to the padding Quicktime would use) ? Le mar. 27 nov. 2018 =C3=A0 18:44, Kieran O Leary a =C3=A9crit : > > Hey, > > Thanks for replying: > > On Sun, 25 Nov 2018, 20:20 Dave Rice > >> Hi Kieran, >> >> > On Nov 23, 2018, at 4:56 AM, Kieran O Leary = wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > Would I be correct in saying that ideally, Clean Aperture values in a >> > MOV/MPEG-4 file should map to the PixelCrop element in Matroska? >> >> Yes, they conceptually do the same thing but I=E2=80=99m a little confus= ed about how to use the vert/horiz offset fractions of the clap atom to con= vert to the pixel crop atom. I tried in both QuickTime 7 and X, and while Q= uickTime X uses the cleanAperature w/h fractions to present a cropped image= , QuickTime 7 doesn=E2=80=99t but appears to adjust the aspect ratio accord= ing to those values. QuickTime X does seem impacted by non-zero offset valu= es not in a way that I consider coherent. Do you have any examples of un-ce= ntered aperatures? I was hoping that IMX files would, does the ones I have = don=E2=80=99t use any aperature. > > > I don't think I've ever seen non-centered.. but it sounds like Matroska i= s capable of a mapping,but the actual quicktime implementation sounds incon= sistent? I guess this could be specified explicitly by an archivist who wil= l hopefully be able to determine the intended rendering of the original Qui= ckTime file.. > Also it looks like here's yet another related ticket: > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/4489 > >> >> > I'm asking about this in regards to this ffmpeg ticket - >> > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/7437 >> > As it appears that FFmpeg does not currently read the values in the >> > clap atom and it also does not map them to Matorksa files when >> > remuxing. It seems to make the most sense to map them to PixelCrop, >> > but I'd like to hear it from folks more knowledgable than me. >> >> Seems reasonable to me, but I=E2=80=99m not exactly certain what the map= ping would be. > > > I was considering doing some experiments with some common PAL scenarios = ( crop to 703x576 with a PAR of 59:54, or crop to 704x576 with PAR of 12:11= ) and using mkvpropedit to insert the metadata. I'll have to look beyond VL= C to other players that can display these crops and aspect ratio conversion= s for the moment. > >> >> > Another associated issue with the display of these kinds of values is >> > with VLC as it appears that >> > >> > 1) PixelCrop values in Matroska are not supported by VLC at the moment >> > - https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/21192 >> > 2) Clean aperture values are not supported by VLC at the moment >> > https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/21179 >> >> Sounds like these tickets are in my priority order as well. > > > Cheers, > > Kieran O'Leary, > > Irish Film Institute >> >> Dave Rice >> > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar --=20 Steve Lhomme Matroska association Chairman From nobody Sun Dec 2 08:18:14 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CC9130EE3 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:18:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Yej2XGFOQ6P for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A81EC130DF5 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id m22so3319863wml.3 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 08:18:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=nIJGggSQ+hlOkiDll+21OWMe+EbcbYiJjFv0hSOPrjQ=; b=lwXJEoTmLs4NLmzz6mvntZUk+sdY+FINWzXvbSjEHjtscXri2NkbW0DnN5JF2ANSy0 BbGI57ViVQKIQ+IeRRFE14Qgt1TnqOL25RCaP9IyBAsORB+spEOa1p9rTIt08ZopMgIc ZBX0dDzorQLAIEecmynqWE4usRwuCMnsd3cWGe2dYv/119eEP4XLXt+gwZWIkJdKwjr9 0AhAjj/15KQbRJ4senEE/J3TxO9IRxsDeqVv8QnDiWyUGiPsH1Q1QOUGkpqMv9fU0L/H qxpx5/4kZOTZY6lP/p8SPIo9vLcdPFUD7INZzY2EW5BCWxJlFsMkb+WPPumiVqNvxyXQ MPJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=nIJGggSQ+hlOkiDll+21OWMe+EbcbYiJjFv0hSOPrjQ=; b=tUFUZ6TdFdrs6lrf5ok6/CI8JKZCYT2TUinNwofE1UFgjMo3+mopZi1A7/1smMjzQ8 x8dzG/ke6T32CazkOz751PIxXmU3Sk07X/0NwV6b7X2c8HHR4uXB4Z0UL3k4i85Tu10O qHdyHdTt4Dp2rTx7YksTbrRY8gYJr8WyhxjsQqJT5o7YtLWdqzdqdFXu2szJJPfXLSVm p/QqfKHLK04b7Gn/Twrhfdno+2V39Fsrj4SYHSgnXJVbjqpdliqWRz9rXl8QyCDmY0do LiwhWb1QcVjaWHHCK1N/BXIYiYKRVnTflBncFJLzyqHFPMSU9L/tVwFuRGy6hjKjCFT7 1Ysg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWaA7YCzklBZPq+TaxOrVkcE2YmGAYndfPoKAWM/XmCR2krQPvb2 RBOg/V6nRGs6glmvZnR4WrDtjYJEN2tuXy6BZeN5zEE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/W37GGFVmNhESErPgHksxzk+DMenmRw1xj3ZicqtFS868Uei271wCH1Kh2oCEOVOtEz2tmseMAmeQG/VQ1CumQ= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:6e06:: with SMTP id j6mr5556448wmc.3.1543767488678; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 08:18:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <353D4CFD-370C-4509-B7BE-3D572EC2DEFB@dericed.com> In-Reply-To: From: Kieran O Leary Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 16:17:57 +0000 Message-ID: Cc: cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c750dd057c0c60c4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Mapping of MOV clean aperture values to Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2018 16:18:13 -0000 --000000000000c750dd057c0c60c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Steve, On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:44 PM Steve Lhomme wrote: > Hello, > > For VLC the values are read but they are likely lost along the way to > the display by the decoder or the video output. You may try this file > to check if your video output in VLC supports cropping: > http://v2v.cc/~j/theora_testsuite/offset_test.ogv > > That's pretty cool. ffplay and mpv seem to display the full image, but VLC displays a crop. At Teasdale in my home Ubuntu 18.04 desktop. > This illustrates the issue with cropping at the container level (and > ffmpeg) the container may have some values set but some codecs also > have such info and may overwrite this value. And there's not really > any way to tell who is write. It may depend on the codec and the > container. I"m mostly familiar with uncompressed video within MOV, which is then compressed to FFV1/MKV, and in these cases you would only have values in the container. I hadn't thought of the other codecs that could have stream-level cropping. > In Matroska we assume that we override what the codec says. > But I don't think that's how it's handled in ffmpeg. Also there's the > question of what these values apply to: on the decoded surface, which > may include padding on the right/bottom or the area that's supposed to > be visible. In Matroska the "PixelWidth/PixelHeight" correspond to the > visible area, on which we apply extra cropping. (this is currently not > written anywhere). > > As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that > it's some cropping ? I think this is as good of a spec that is freely available - the 'clap section' https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/QuickTime/QTFF/QTFFChap3/qtff3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40000939-CH205-125850 > Is it in the supposedly visible area or a > supposedly padded area (which may not correspond in ffmpeg to the > padding Quicktime would use) ? > Unfortunately I don't fully understand what you mean here by supposedly visible and padded. PAL video has padded black pillarboxing (i have seen expections to this) that is not intended to be viewed. These clean aperture values specify the area that is to be displayed to the viewer. These values are also essential to generating the correct aspect ratio. If the 720x576 pixels is transformed with a PAR of the PAL standard - 59:54, then you get 786x576 aka 1.364:1, but if the 59:54 value is applied with the clean aperture values taken into consideration, then you will get the correct 4:3 aspect ratio. Best, Kieran O'Leary, Irish FIlm Institute. --000000000000c750dd057c0c60c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Steve,

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:44 PM St= eve Lhomme <slhomme@matroska.org= > wrote:
= Hello,

For VLC the values are read but they are likely lost along the way to
the display by the decoder or the video output. You may try this file
to check if your video output in VLC supports cropping:
http://v2v.cc/~j/theora_testsuite/offset_test.ogv

This illustrates the issue with cropping at the container level (and
ffmpeg) the container may have some values set but some codecs also
have such info and may overwrite this value. And there's not really
any way to tell who is write. It may depend on the codec and the
container.

In Matroska we = assume that we override what the codec says.
But I don't think that's how it's handled in ffmpeg. Also there= 's the
question of what these values apply to: on the decoded surface, which
may include padding on the right/bottom or the area that's supposed to<= br> be visible. In Matroska the "PixelWidth/PixelHeight" correspond t= o the
visible area, on which we apply extra cropping. (this is currently not
written anywhere).

As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that
it's some cropping ?

=C2=A0
Is it in th= e supposedly visible area or a
supposedly padded area (which may not correspond in ffmpeg to the
padding Quicktime would use) ?

Unfortun= ately I don't fully understand what you mean here by supposedly visible= and padded. PAL video has padded black pillarboxing (i have seen expection= s to this) that is not intended to be viewed. These clean aperture values s= pecify the area that is to be displayed to the viewer. These values are als= o essential to generating the correct aspect ratio. If the 720x576 pixels i= s transformed with a PAR of the PAL standard - 59:54, then you get 786x576 = aka 1.364:1, but if the 59:54 value is applied with the clean aperture valu= es taken into consideration, then you will get the correct 4:3 aspect ratio= .

Best,

Kieran O'Lear= y,
Irish FIlm Institute.
--000000000000c750dd057c0c60c4-- From nobody Sun Dec 2 08:26:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD0F130DF5 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:26:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CpQu7UjNPo4e for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 9.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (9.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.56.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 193EA12F1AC for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 08:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from player756.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.159.136]) by mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D8234194 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 17:26:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from mediaarea.net (p5DDB488D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.219.72.141]) (Authenticated sender: jerome@mediaarea.net) by player756.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B44BB714378 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 16:26:00 +0000 (UTC) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <353D4CFD-370C-4509-B7BE-3D572EC2DEFB@dericed.com> From: Jerome Martinez Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2018 17:26:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 547187356891025553 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedruddvkedgudejgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Mapping of MOV clean aperture values to Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2018 16:26:06 -0000 On 02/12/2018 16:44, Steve Lhomme wrote: > [...] some codecs also > have such info and may overwrite this value. Which one? e.g. AVC crop values are more for handling widths/heights not multiple of the macroblock size, and output from the decoder is the one cropped, then the clean aperture from the container is applied (BTW, this is sometimes not what the user wants :(,  I got complains that I show the clean aperture size and not the encoded size in MediaInfo). > [...] > > As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that > it's some cropping ? Is it in the supposedly visible area or a > supposedly padded area (which may not correspond in ffmpeg to the > padding Quicktime would use) ? https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/QuickTime/QTFF/QTFFChap2/qtff2.html "The clean aperture defines the part of the encoded pixels to be displayed. The pixel aspect ratio is the aspect ratio of the encoded pixels. Conceptually the encoded pixels are decompressed, stretched (or shrunk) based on the pixel aspect ratio, and extra pixels are cropped off according to the clean aperture." From nobody Sun Dec 2 23:45:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18250130E0F for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:45:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-1.459, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7IdoXF6vg12f for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x62f.google.com (mail-pl1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE782130E03 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id e5so6027009plb.5 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wgo/Eo7XbdCrnUrV764PTDYU05OcvdEtpNv1Li3bnqA=; b=asi4AjCy3mSL0PYC8eh3lJymG3isoy2MbpzRj/wMQ6jme30KFETULy/CggQvcns0/M hFqyhWMxrNfROZh3Wq9zzi8N0YHpipiApF6I3DWkUc0zi+SoDgznGYQVKMzBjZNUTkd7 rrvL9hwhZ4FVmYii3aCBEUkqAHxx7VmNWI4/1a2aq7zLn/Fby80olR9bqV/zBW+QUyE3 UeARxKFwaHHytVdWXv0n0p2TfUGnsFTB3A43cqnyVBxYOqzBLVO4BDWL9N48kQbiDCZr 7tWKvqMdMQS5qU108o4r6oamy+D6nfgD7P9tpaohJdCHzYPhvORu90xedYag2vj2Ml/P MCIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wgo/Eo7XbdCrnUrV764PTDYU05OcvdEtpNv1Li3bnqA=; b=VfQHTzUxzn8zsgliewlh7Mpp0qx6lWyVAAwBT4SzIG0PrCqCMlxt5K5Npv82z7+bXG NRcwh7X1vZgzcUwtY2Aj7Gtr41l5pRqLsG1Tl0CibhRW8iT7tVaLKYBW7PAVJgDG9NF5 M2k1Fkn1xohoWu13/Riq/RT+uHaD3rqwIbK2g+Gu35dQcIhSYrTvXLgWg2ItE1eCOKqj pJ2gE/4NFk3m4yeBbXuDwt/Ez8zBSHRj4iKS+cOdjwKls9nQsAfYMh8x7RIVDeqLY8tV n7fGjsWERGx5e9YA3cCG6XNf0lfKlsHTFnyFLCoqFRNJJhAPBnSLbXnDU34N7tLomZKW r9XA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYnhrI/JFzFScZINxkN8yeYzrX1FE6pOCN7WPpKnoPfBHBXCeH2 C4OjBKVcEzE152Vq/MdhArlj1MsMfTmPXM4wUNJnTl4slT4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UZtgVDvOnbdRdZQ5AC9X+Tl+0b5tIF5s4U9DllL+QJOhj0tyR8lAuS3JJW71KI0XmA1N8stsrDaAUyKpIxYoo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:442:: with SMTP id 60mr155256ple.73.1543823147206; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:45:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <353D4CFD-370C-4509-B7BE-3D572EC2DEFB@dericed.com> In-Reply-To: From: Steve Lhomme Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 08:45:37 +0100 Message-ID: To: Kieran O Leary Cc: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Mapping of MOV clean aperture values to Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 07:45:50 -0000 Le dim. 2 d=C3=A9c. 2018 =C3=A0 17:18, Kieran O Leary a =C3=A9crit : > > Hi Steve, > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:44 PM Steve Lhomme wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> For VLC the values are read but they are likely lost along the way to >> the display by the decoder or the video output. You may try this file >> to check if your video output in VLC supports cropping: >> http://v2v.cc/~j/theora_testsuite/offset_test.ogv >> > That's pretty cool. ffplay and mpv seem to display the full image, but VL= C displays a crop. At Teasdale in my home Ubuntu 18..04 desktop. This is one tricky corner case that we don't fully support everywhere. But we're supposed to. >> This illustrates the issue with cropping at the container level (and >> ffmpeg) the container may have some values set but some codecs also >> have such info and may overwrite this value. And there's not really >> any way to tell who is write. It may depend on the codec and the >> container. > > > I"m mostly familiar with uncompressed video within MOV, which is then com= pressed to FFV1/MKV, and in these cases you would only have values in the c= ontainer. I hadn't thought of the other codecs that could have stream-level= cropping. There's Theora at least (see above) probably some modern MPEG ones as well since the "blocks" have to be some power of 2 sizes but the main source may not be. >> In Matroska we assume that we override what the codec says. >> But I don't think that's how it's handled in ffmpeg. Also there's the >> question of what these values apply to: on the decoded surface, which >> may include padding on the right/bottom or the area that's supposed to >> be visible. In Matroska the "PixelWidth/PixelHeight" correspond to the >> visible area, on which we apply extra cropping. (this is currently not >> written anywhere). >> >> As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that >> it's some cropping ? > > > I think this is as good of a spec that is freely available - the 'clap se= ction' https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/QuickTime/= QTFF/QTFFChap3/qtff3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40000939-CH205-125850 OK, so we should support it in VLC (which we don't) and that seems to map more or less to Matroska values. >> Is it in the supposedly visible area or a >> supposedly padded area (which may not correspond in ffmpeg to the >> padding Quicktime would use) ? > > > Unfortunately I don't fully understand what you mean here by supposedly v= isible and padded. PAL video has padded black pillarboxing (i have seen exp= ections to this) that is not intended to be viewed. These clean aperture va= lues specify the area that is to be displayed to the viewer. These values a= re also essential to generating the correct aspect ratio. If the 720x576 pi= xels is transformed with a PAR of the PAL standard - 59:54, then you get 78= 6x576 aka 1.364:1, but if the 59:54 value is applied with the clean apertur= e values taken into consideration, then you will get the correct 4:3 aspect= ratio.. As said above modern codecs use Blocks of 8x8, 16x16, etc to encode pictures. There's codec padding if your have a source of 3x3 for example. But to use SIMD (fast assembler code) you may want to align to 32 pixels (to use AVX-2 for example) that's purely a decoder optimization and depends on the implementation. But that's extra padding. libavcodec (in ffmpeg) requires a padding of 32 on all planes even if the source doesn't require it. That means it forces a first layer of padding/cropping. But the container/codec one should be applied nonetheless. It's probably not done here. From nobody Sun Dec 2 23:50:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60B64128D68 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:50:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.359 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.359 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-1.459, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQGZv5n-0bnM for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 286BB124C04 for ; Sun, 2 Dec 2018 23:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id u18so6028206plq.7 for ; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:50:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KbGe9IKzYQ+mY8VbV8cJP8L4m4ExibJstL/0jz2lwmY=; b=gYsoTny75zzuPhLfP64Ncd1XUV+oYq1LqYgsPIhuGGzMZ/FkRBNdEYe4D7dqXqXfNX twe9b4lXSvUe4G7JJbp13TXnlCSy5ltycnX2MKrU1gO/ErkKQbpr0SCTGP2MYOr98tTn Vvhf2WNl+5HWAgDC4PwqzRWX705TZnulzX1xVObBpnNd4pVuBz7nwXB12n7sE7FEVg81 XkFmHc1cJgzsjs6FSz6Xo6wS/rUZHK6ofwgzXOvbxDM/m8PSogBLmLEcXcSK+olGnmkk fnp6XBekzWHYpBFuXwoHgJbBdzMaS8SUnIPR4IxbGKEGV3Umsz6JHOf0M3mKlfpgrmE9 nU/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KbGe9IKzYQ+mY8VbV8cJP8L4m4ExibJstL/0jz2lwmY=; b=otcghWhDhlYLP8JXQLVclcoCvaZy5qvXoBHK377B1o9NPuXir/Vqn/cA1Jb62w5/af cJ7HhTjvsB8L4GsKMzeeqZ+mQ2Suce5hHtsh9RrB3DlJifSDTQ7dcHQz0A3A9WeYR8k4 nZBEP8R46Y1g1Q/5W1H32yABv8NAqJXRlxfzpiKiwIhmjpw/gQx6QMJbcyj9HK4iaXjE bIhb7pLrwnihw5ndbvzzopGqePRvt261m8NhpV4OUKHshZYRGsDMAtC5aLe7KjernYKh o2TtAdXDBcxYsC/dDCoSfvtGqvOoM+PKVp5svsxmOKNl4r3oiwhz+2rFP4qaUkoyAm2N f7sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZsVGiBKjqQ2c8FF2PhzU5RjRE4MzBhyaNAH6c+9wgXjMPQ66OF zgZ5XYP38IkmqjZwdRFqBIjzM0rzafcevnQfMnURXg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VuVVfhnoTD9RxX7kd4ZU79ItX+N5vOUO1YjNu2kCF2YdnSuQFnpzyBoEbJv1Ib16fI0RMl5DhPGnXnepVRelI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9047:: with SMTP id w7mr15067509plz.270.1543823425701; Sun, 02 Dec 2018 23:50:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <353D4CFD-370C-4509-B7BE-3D572EC2DEFB@dericed.com> In-Reply-To: From: Steve Lhomme Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2018 08:50:15 +0100 Message-ID: To: Kieran O Leary Cc: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Mapping of MOV clean aperture values to Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2018 07:50:28 -0000 > >> In Matroska we assume that we override what the codec says. > >> But I don't think that's how it's handled in ffmpeg. Also there's the > >> question of what these values apply to: on the decoded surface, which > >> may include padding on the right/bottom or the area that's supposed to > >> be visible. In Matroska the "PixelWidth/PixelHeight" correspond to the > >> visible area, on which we apply extra cropping. (this is currently not > >> written anywhere). > >> > >> As for the MOV atom, is there are spec somewhere ? Or is it clear that > >> it's some cropping ? > > > > > > I think this is as good of a spec that is freely available - the 'clap section' https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/QuickTime/QTFF/QTFFChap3/qtff3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40000939-CH205-125850 > > OK, so we should support it in VLC (which we don't) and that seems to > map more or less to Matroska values. I see you submitted a feature request already, excellent https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/21179 From nobody Tue Dec 4 07:49:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietf.org Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05589130EC5; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:49:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Richardson To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: iesg-secretary@ietf.org, cellar@ietf.org, cellar-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <154393857701.4660.12593392055289209335.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 07:49:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-08 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 15:49:37 -0000 Michael Richardson has requested publication of draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-08 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the CELLAR working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ From nobody Tue Dec 4 08:26:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6C56130F0D; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:26:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vp4Um8DDnMbS; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E7AC130F09; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.24] (cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id wB4GQVXe090602 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:26:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-122-203-106.tx.res.rr.com [70.122.203.106] claimed to be [10.0.1.24] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: <8AE3013C-7D05-463A-B12D-7D8A28E4DA31@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C96AE299-9C35-4ED6-BD23-81E7F4CB4C78"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.1 \(3445.101.1\)) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:26:29 -0600 In-Reply-To: <154393857701.4660.12593392055289209335.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: cellar@ietf.org, cellar-chairs@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <154393857701.4660.12593392055289209335.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.101.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-08 X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2018 16:26:45 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C96AE299-9C35-4ED6-BD23-81E7F4CB4C78 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yay! Thanks, Ben. > On Dec 4, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Michael Richardson has requested publication of = draft-ietf-cellar-ebml-08 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the CELLAR = working group. >=20 > Please verify the document's state at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cellar-ebml/ >=20 --Apple-Mail=_C96AE299-9C35-4ED6-BD23-81E7F4CB4C78 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlwGqrYACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2ZrQ//Y3/hUOW9HSM3xNRiOKFmVhavQSRGfMzDkhfD1VtH28VPIg4w2/pNRtMZ 6o91xHX/0wRNbe3zW1dftWMteDmYLmO/v8Vgs/p7RKa0RKG19CeZKiogPJNCqPjO 4lVZrel87SvEQJPOVm25bTN4HJ8xkOQ2+yKQz+YKM1O5GLzlkJwtzZN08Lixg7Kz cz6Pox/XQ+r8Q1LSDGscsoacOiOKkqV/wIZxFfBqccjKJQjF+AiS0pOC41FZN/Sw AJ0fVcIjgs7WnR2EBPrp52b8sE8YlJj1X3HxZmzVYEfNGJ9jJbZfUI9fbPumIxGh yn1n5ecPcbI3/SuK4LAMOq+sH2zUojj2IUW9ZckSDHmCc0qUp378diOoK7EE8VS2 G984mWm3c/LEhc0IG00IRoSaGAsgx2CKa0sX6ydpEP2qNLM1kM6IfABBt5ae+p3D 4vmkp6gxKF9qZY+BZ6GJJuyQdTdBvsOapp2Ggq8DuVMceI85am3GwEDjltZMxBME xN7giP/kcSIVGfziz4X/kkZW8tHCvaGkhI97jLsbePGp9e5fo447lLOMUvlaj8Qh B6J2q09l3d7SEAhFcMdidHhgrFQVHj6oBYWEuL9o7gtEAQoFkXy2yP/TT9QUxMuv VbXMrAeGZpvrXlMYAgDhfSEisUnXCGxbIOTckTSLTDezyXARjbw= =l2yk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C96AE299-9C35-4ED6-BD23-81E7F4CB4C78-- From nobody Sat Dec 8 04:25:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B791294D0 for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 04:25:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IoSCcdGLrAhl for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 04:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com (mail-wr1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F269212896A for ; Sat, 8 Dec 2018 04:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id l9so6134141wrt.13 for ; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 04:25:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Yp8zGMLWCK/o8w6px39xaB56xILwKECPSnaVVlV2ZjU=; b=uDwu4iQG2q/8BdzmyuZR873b654urNjfkmiIN/G6fuXARb2mHPIKEVBhDQjP5g4BLK 5ldNWhDwQjgquBcyyG5IwL1lahp3/1pyh1IzOU8V96tNRXtdjkU8PmHQ6RvB+uBpjOIt tVOyXK7VJiM5ijXNtYSzWmyIFd8dZkYMUxeE7eDGTvtanf46aWNmaZE6zLLwKL4wnWW7 VNUnOaAAYqE6QlzjLu0KqSsQ/VG7E1xLm16Sv1KmBRcmSZclB3LrUUITSeBRXFqgHq4U srCKOvwe0+48JFuDmrukMW2XcxrptUmDmpZY+EpWuxK6U9t/sTb/swFnUzPzz6U5XZ3f F4mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Yp8zGMLWCK/o8w6px39xaB56xILwKECPSnaVVlV2ZjU=; b=sF9YTk3r/vaZCOtRi4QXhA4yQNLtFsm53Xi3H1kDI84i8YEIM2JzVWHYrr5M0JYhgx SQaDuVwHZrRDvcIKcnvIGmzR+jHhjrmItLU/Ev0y7UGmiygqXgcLEBfZ8oVIpfX3/HZ8 n+Iohtwr5XrmCYzrPH7lt4unnNus9RbvsXpU2LTanl5pvRQ/HfjfByqUJ+bvdo87Ayxm a9f4x8pOUDfobW3OY3Qvvyq4WNiSaMyYoXQeKaTEcfBwZFWOXne/oakCUA5+84Y7piT6 ETIVVhxZ4WcWHDCI/yOK8vNzaiN3oCaMisyFPTx7VJ7jmb81nQ771LS1XAv4R+M1vDUg zOUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbxCLV9aICGQU3O/DPTP9cea61NRDXbOUHSXCVKubO9y3CgxGfs /vb2V3P05lw8wpIbWx6OzznasQD34uJSYyGMNa12tuA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/V2B5NoCI4TNS4XY4g95N5PrNhTlOqPpu6X0gKHFaZ3+Q+Yxa6Z79ChEeA6fKulF9Cp1NdBJPxVyR/duXFlMXA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4382:: with SMTP id i2mr4438197wrq.172.1544271945366; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 04:25:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Kieran O Leary Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 12:25:33 +0000 Message-ID: To: cellar@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bd817b057c81d403" Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 12:25:51 -0000 --000000000000bd817b057c81d403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Currently FFmpeg uses a codecID of V_QUICKTIME when rewrapping TIFF to Matroska. I asked about this on FFmpeg-user and Carl Eugen Hoyos was wondering if there was a spec for the correct handling of these kind of files. I thought ye might know? http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/2018-December/042273.html Does V_QUICKTIME sound correct? In my original email to ffmpeg-user, I mistakingly thought that DPX also had the same issue, but that was my mistake. FFmpeg uses V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / dpx The reason why I am investigating this, even though it might seem a bit odd is: It seems that rewrapping DPX/TIFF to Matroska (or QuickTime it seems) via ffmpeg is reversible, producing the same wholefile checksum values when returning from MKV to the original format. With TIFF or DPX you just need to be careful to use the correct compression algorithm and pix_fmt. This is pretty interesting because while FFV1 compresses very well for film scans, I found with some limited tests that the compression ratio for born digital DCDM sequences is quite poor. I don't have figures at the moment, but from what I saw the value of encoding time vs file size reduction was not worth it. I am going to proceed with further tests and perhaps my sample suite was too small, so I think this is still worth investigating. With DCDM, reversibility is essential as all of our DCDM are deposits or donations. So I was thinking about ZIP as the most likely option, but it would be pretty cool to be able to rewrap to Matroska and to be able to reverse back to the original files. As this is just a stream copy, the process is very fast. Best, Kieran O'Leary Irish FIlm Insitute. --000000000000bd817b057c81d403 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

<= /div>
Currently FFmpeg uses a codecID of V_QUICKTIME when rewrapping TI= FF to Matroska.
I asked about this on FFmpeg-user and Carl Eugen = Hoyos was wondering if there was a spec for the correct handling of these k= ind of files. I thought ye might know? http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpe= g-user/2018-December/042273.html

Does V_QUICKT= IME sound correct?

In my original email to ffm= peg-user, I mistakingly thought that DPX also had the same issue, but that = was my mistake. FFmpeg uses V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / dpx
The reason= why I am investigating this, even though it might seem a bit odd is:
=

It seems that rewrapping DPX/TIFF to Matroska (or Quick= Time it seems) via ffmpeg is reversible, producing the same wholefile check= sum values when returning from MKV to the original format. With TIFF or DPX= you just need to be careful to use the correct compression algorithm and p= ix_fmt.

This is pretty interesting because while F= FV1 compresses very well for film scans, I found with some limited tests th= at the compression ratio for born digital DCDM sequences is quite poor. I d= on't have figures at the moment, but from what I saw the value of encod= ing time vs file size reduction was not worth it. I am going to proceed wit= h further tests and perhaps my sample suite was too small, so I think this = is still worth investigating.

With DCDM, reversibi= lity is essential as all of our DCDM are deposits or donations. So I was th= inking about ZIP as the most likely option, but it would be pretty cool to = be able to rewrap to Matroska and to be able to reverse back to the origina= l files. As this is just a stream copy, the process is very fast.

Best,

Kieran O'Leary
Irish FIlm Insitute.
--000000000000bd817b057c81d403-- From nobody Fri Dec 14 07:25:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E80C130DF2 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 07:25:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i61TFeLKWMED for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 07:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74875130DE5 for ; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 07:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=9070 helo=[10.10.201.39]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gXpLH-001bGo-N8; Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:25:35 -0500 From: Dave Rice Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E9788F68-FDA4-439D-8984-787105A7665C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 10:25:30 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: cellar@ietf.org To: Kieran O Leary References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 15:25:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E9788F68-FDA4-439D-8984-787105A7665C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, > On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:25 AM, Kieran O Leary = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Currently FFmpeg uses a codecID of V_QUICKTIME when rewrapping TIFF to = Matroska. > I asked about this on FFmpeg-user and Carl Eugen Hoyos was wondering = if there was a spec for the correct handling of these kind of files. I = thought ye might know? = http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/2018-December/042273.html = >=20 > Does V_QUICKTIME sound correct? In this case, Matroska is storing what the QuickTime stsd would be. For = data from TIFF and DPX, using V_QUICKTIME seems like an odd fit. I=E2=80=99= d suggest making an issue at = https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues/new so = that we remember this. > In my original email to ffmpeg-user, I mistakingly thought that DPX = also had the same issue, but that was my mistake. FFmpeg uses = V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / dpx=20 > The reason why I am investigating this, even though it might seem a = bit odd is: V_MS/VFW/FOURCC is a common fallback for storing encodings in Matroska = where there is no dedicated codec mapping yet defined. > It seems that rewrapping DPX/TIFF to Matroska (or QuickTime it seems) = via ffmpeg is reversible, producing the same wholefile checksum values = when returning from MKV to the original format. With TIFF or DPX you = just need to be careful to use the correct compression algorithm and = pix_fmt. >=20 > This is pretty interesting because while FFV1 compresses very well for = film scans, I found with some limited tests that the compression ratio = for born digital DCDM sequences is quite poor. I don't have figures at = the moment, but from what I saw the value of encoding time vs file size = reduction was not worth it. I am going to proceed with further tests and = perhaps my sample suite was too small, so I think this is still worth = investigating. >=20 > With DCDM, reversibility is essential as all of our DCDM are deposits = or donations. So I was thinking about ZIP as the most likely option, but = it would be pretty cool to be able to rewrap to Matroska and to be able = to reverse back to the original files. As this is just a stream copy, = the process is very fast.=20 >=20 > Best, >=20 > Kieran O'Leary > Irish FIlm Insitute. > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar --Apple-Mail=_E9788F68-FDA4-439D-8984-787105A7665C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi,

On Dec 8, 2018, at 7:25 AM, = Kieran O Leary <kieran.o.leary@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

Hi,

Currently FFmpeg uses a codecID of V_QUICKTIME when = rewrapping TIFF to Matroska.
I asked about this on = FFmpeg-user and Carl Eugen Hoyos was wondering if there was a spec for = the correct handling of these kind of files. I thought ye might know? http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/2018-December/042273.ht= ml

Does = V_QUICKTIME sound = correct?

In this case, Matroska is storing what the = QuickTime stsd would be. For data from TIFF and DPX, using V_QUICKTIME = seems like an odd fit. I=E2=80=99d suggest making an issue at https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues/n= ew so that we remember this.

In my = original email to ffmpeg-user, I mistakingly thought that DPX also had = the same issue, but that was my mistake. FFmpeg uses V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / = dpx
The reason why I am = investigating this, even though it might seem a bit odd = is:

V_MS/VFW/FOURCC is a common fallback for storing = encodings in Matroska where there is no dedicated codec mapping yet = defined.

It seems that rewrapping DPX/TIFF = to Matroska (or QuickTime it seems) via ffmpeg is reversible, producing = the same wholefile checksum values when returning from MKV to the = original format. With TIFF or DPX you just need to be careful to use the = correct compression algorithm and pix_fmt.

This is pretty interesting because = while FFV1 compresses very well for film scans, I found with some = limited tests that the compression ratio for born digital DCDM sequences = is quite poor. I don't have figures at the moment, but from what I saw = the value of encoding time vs file size reduction was not worth it. I am = going to proceed with further tests and perhaps my sample suite was too = small, so I think this is still worth investigating.

With DCDM, reversibility = is essential as all of our DCDM are deposits or donations. So I was = thinking about ZIP as the most likely option, but it would be pretty = cool to be able to rewrap to Matroska and to be able to reverse back to = the original files. As this is just a stream copy, the process is very = fast.

Best,

Kieran O'Leary
Irish FIlm Insitute.
_______________________________________________
Cellar = mailing list
Cellar@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar

= --Apple-Mail=_E9788F68-FDA4-439D-8984-787105A7665C-- From nobody Sun Dec 16 14:39:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD9D130E44 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:39:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ftWs9EqKfc0P for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CAEE130E4A for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 14:39:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1752008C for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:39:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id D270ED1D; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04ACD1C for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2018 17:39:26 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: cellar@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2018 22:39:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain {In preparing the agenda, I've discovered my webex account has been cleaned up. I will have a URL/meeting# by the end of Monday, and I'll update the agenda} CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC INFO: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-08/session/cellar https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2018-cellar-08-cellar-01/ WEBEX: Meeting number: not yet known Meeting link: TBD Proposed Agenda: 1. Note Well. 2. Accept draft minutes from September meeting 3. Logistics for Meeting. 2a) Etherpad for notes https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospaceFont=true 2b) Roll call 4. WG status update - EBML is now in IESG publication queue. - work on Matroska and FFV1 issues!! - confirm list of dates for meetings: 2019-01-29 2019-02-26 2019-03-26 5. https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues - new v1 was posted in September, are there still issues with v1? 6. https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues - what new issues? 7. Any other Business. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlwW1B4ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXPOwgAixJz+7rfqbOAIb/Myqao7lVM/wAn3fxNxBIZUdEqc7D0V5qnrl/XuzAl KhSjcPjnpiew1Zf4WVXCyDk6C4S5Jb4O7b4ug5vSfDMLbHwf43UIzf8MlhhQXTOO 4zkIemSZPbzXfsfqmN0yFGsO8JKfVvhkBx8fqWL3uD84BDk+MKvWywZ3yCaH/chN 8j4GR+1519lxYMzjqMBaSNZQSXZdZITINJyp2y7bWLCRcRh9sB18eOsBdyWUR0nz MLvkp30J/FTFXLIUvQLLbHmC6QCgNYHUg4XGCztcvjD362oHl4Ibmle7LLbYhi0K 0htiKeN1Jb6udclZDiA7sUTo4Jsvyg== =ApyD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Dec 17 04:37:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2BD130E72 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:37:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yI-cmVqwQIIj for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 8.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (8.mo2.mail-out.ovh.net [188.165.52.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9579E1286E7 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from player788.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.146.50]) by mo2.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA415172A10 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:37:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from mediaarea.net (p5DDB4599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.219.69.153]) (Authenticated sender: jerome@mediaarea.net) by player788.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F6D7E71074 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:37:25 +0000 (UTC) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> From: Jerome Martinez Message-ID: <8140e159-e782-edbf-8f23-1b63f4ad834d@mediaarea.net> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:37:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4064.1544999966@localhost> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D32E010FD4E59E9662BF03D1" Content-Language: en-US X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 10990471944273596561 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudeivddggeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfdpvefjgfevmfevgfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecuhedttdenuc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:37:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D32E010FD4E59E9662BF03D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you Michael for taking care of organizing the meeting. I'll be there. Jérôme On 16/12/2018 23:39, Michael Richardson wrote: > {In preparing the agenda, I've discovered my webex account has been cleaned > up. I will have a URL/meeting# by the end of Monday, and I'll update the agenda} > > > CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting > December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC > > INFO: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-08/session/cellar > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2018-cellar-08-cellar-01/ > > WEBEX: > Meeting number: not yet known > Meeting link: TBD > > Proposed Agenda: > > 1. Note Well. > > 2. Accept draft minutes from September meeting > > 3. Logistics for Meeting. > 2a) Etherpad for notes > https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospaceFont=true > > 2b) Roll call > > 4. WG status update > - EBML is now in IESG publication queue. > - work on Matroska and FFV1 issues!! > - confirm list of dates for meetings: > 2019-01-29 > 2019-02-26 > 2019-03-26 > > > 5. https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues > - new v1 was posted in September, are there still issues with v1? > > 6. https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues > - what new issues? > > 7. Any other Business. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar --------------D32E010FD4E59E9662BF03D1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thank you Michael for taking care of organizing the meeting.
I'll be there.

Jérôme


On 16/12/2018 23:39, Michael Richardson wrote:
{In preparing the agenda, I've discovered my webex account has been cleaned
up. I will have a URL/meeting# by the end of Monday, and I'll update the agenda}


CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
December 18, 2018        20:00 UTC

INFO:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-08/session/cellar
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2018-cellar-08-cellar-01/

WEBEX:
        Meeting number: not yet known
        Meeting link:   TBD

Proposed Agenda:

1. Note Well.

2. Accept draft minutes from September meeting

3. Logistics for Meeting.
   2a) Etherpad for notes
       https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospaceFont=true

   2b) Roll call

4. WG status update
   - EBML is now in IESG publication queue.
   - work on Matroska and FFV1 issues!!
   - confirm list of dates for meetings:
       2019-01-29
       2019-02-26
       2019-03-26


5. https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues
   - new v1 was posted in September, are there still issues with v1?

6. https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues
   - what new issues?

7. Any other Business.





_______________________________________________
Cellar mailing list
Cellar@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar


--------------D32E010FD4E59E9662BF03D1-- From nobody Mon Dec 17 10:03:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB4F130EE1 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:02:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.18 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.18 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ClTGVV9F5U-W for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03939130EE6 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:02:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7002008C for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:02:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 18E56F34; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15940F32 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:02:54 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson cc: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4064.1544999966@localhost> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:02:54 -0500 Message-ID: <19537.1545069774@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:02:59 -0000 Michael Richardson wrote: > {In preparing the agenda, I've discovered my webex account has been clea= ned > up. I will have a URL/meeting# by the end of Monday, and I'll update the= agenda} > > > CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting > December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC > > INFO: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-08/sess= ion/cellar > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2018-cellar-08-c= ellar-01/ > > WEBEX: > Meeting number: not yet known > Meeting link: TBD https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmee216fb7cc5c23345dcc865aa0ed95fb Meeting number: 647 787 756 Meeting password: WYsDQ3VF Audio connection: 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 787 756 From nobody Mon Dec 17 10:19:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B70130EFA for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VSiTLPbPsqQk for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52AFF130F37 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F85E2008C for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 7DDC2F34; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:19:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC1EF32 for ; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:19:04 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson to: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <19537.1545069774@localhost> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <19537.1545069774@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 13:19:04 -0500 Message-ID: <24103.1545070744@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 18:19:08 -0000 CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC INFO: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-08/sessio= n/cellar https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2018-cellar-08-cel= lar-01/ WEBEX: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmee216fb7cc5c23345dcc865a= a0ed95fb Meeting number: 647 787 756 Meeting password: WYsDQ3VF Audio connection: 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 647 787 756 Proposed Agenda: 1. Note Well. 2. Accept draft minutes from September meeting 3. Logistics for Meeting. 2a) Etherpad for notes https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospa= ceFont=3Dtrue 2b) Roll call 4. WG status update - EBML is now in IESG publication queue. - work on Matroska and FFV1 issues!! - confirm list of dates for meetings: 2019-01-29 2019-02-26 2019-03-26 5. https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues - new v1 was posted in September, are there still issues with v1? 6. https://github.com/Matroska-Org/matroska-specification/issues - what new issues? 7. Any other Business. From nobody Tue Dec 18 07:32:06 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBB1130DDD for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 07:32:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=bunkus.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tslhRJgZXXN9 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 07:32:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from adara.bunkus.org (adara.bunkus.org [144.76.6.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7371288BD for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 07:32:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bunkus.org; s=mail2018100901; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:In-reply-to:Subject:Cc:To:From:References; bh=DSBqohW6kzlROwdVXez6WDwmlZrvcm8Y8k1W0X4tz6k=; b=nhRGI2ABoewjrBbrjKXaiFDPkeRoqGWlWKHKCNHC+G+wk0g8EeeX8zEDtmu+VbdVCha/poDxhrbOHcQorG0p6eSSdpWXii8SvH1UhP1SNNuJwEwJaX5xSjbDoO1U5ku9bh0ERzvP3fOB9gk6sXnXp3zGLaRQnQ6MeF87Mgec19Y=; Received: from liselle.bunkus.org ([2a01:4f8:190:8147::105:1]:39718) by adara.bunkus.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from ) id 1gZHLg-00055U-03 for cellar@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:31:57 +0100 Received: from sweet-chili.local (unknown [10.55.5.2]) by liselle.bunkus.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 199696540017 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:31:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from sweet-chili (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sweet-chili.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AEEB52B61B2 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:31:49 +0100 (CET) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0210.5C1912ED.0042, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.0; emacs 26.1 From: Moritz Bunkus To: cellar@ietf.org Cc: In-reply-to: <4064.1544999966@localhost> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 16:31:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87tvja26my.fsf@bunkus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:32:05 -0000 Hey, work issues prevent me from attending tonight, unfortunately. I'll make it a priority to schedule work things better for the meetings in the next couple of months. Kind regards, mosu From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:10:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75A1B13114A for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9xZUsSVN1mO for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com (mail-wr1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DF11131158 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id q18so16683990wrx.9 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=yScGpue3HbwB/Fw48OOpe71UO9FXc9d8hdec1TGxnX4=; b=yTf/Vxl7iz2nyqL637nNlGnGvh5TOhCbC0B6s4N/gEU5icQgw9mBHYjRbXVoBn5Khs UxTVmLWVzxiVWedcAeAdUF7wFMHawAQn78ZU/uwlHZ9/Vy5pYqK/0ur0cIs0+bh6sbFS iw5lAi9oXRPesX+VPTQFJkbfr6upq3p1hqG0EgBErIqFti5YmH84jJ4C2GqBaNqj32MD 8Owfz20x9a0awozsIzjy304NEmjg7VvHOQK8k//t4aob1+CKPJktOcEXQFgwrzxX2ZGF 9Y7hyzYpg2kuw7W4jyNCKcRVlZ09s+AN6OC4ZiD24Wsk24h1whyr6b/jMOE7cJR2UhL2 FpPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=yScGpue3HbwB/Fw48OOpe71UO9FXc9d8hdec1TGxnX4=; b=T7mOKslc8eYwmSW1pYSLx/qjGWh67ESe2SHYCSpFot/Yuoyd/u2gq0lpruIj/XCEO7 5/+pWV1vrLxxuNOmbYKdI7U8uRkS9enjKDIUG8ckqTvujzE/Y+6nZFHMWjE/Kf6d3aaP 1Zo0enzdWhcjOWDzVTSXb4ZnJwCx1RRLFm4NXHb8LJxoZZg/PDRJ5I0xOfvuj/NwogLi UTx7tGA3VRDqbt7gvoZ3jmtegKPV3LvqYrdDHnuOAfAosQROd4gnnoOFmD1uFcgsa0Hp zuYM4cHOo8vsrujcCvZxRDfjVhlxGQG5/VmZKzkvv2N+nQhBUPBI1rG4VbhFem8oRo8C Ecyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWatcXFGQ03jRMytnvwwQfqYP1sR9gP8fM15ryxnIDj+fEm+6HYE CJX/JERIRvurtUU6ObZ9AYq75j3f8C+IkA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/XHa0MGb38pm57/VTbq4h/jMBceqUg1caa8ZmuUcCmcDCLC8XJEQQ6vAz4RxDaVkMTMHMxQkg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:9ec8:: with SMTP id b8mr3753438wrf.164.1545153020366; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.3.19] (229.74.9.109.rev.sfr.net. [109.9.74.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m4sm1935652wmc.3.2018.12.18.09.10.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:10:19 -0800 (PST) To: cellar@ietf.org References: From: Steve Lhomme Message-ID: <6e161b3f-57ba-abf2-7dd5-0a85a15684f9@matroska.org> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:10:18 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:10:24 -0000 On 08/12/2018 13:25, Kieran O Leary wrote: > Hi, > > Currently FFmpeg uses a codecID of V_QUICKTIME when rewrapping TIFF to > Matroska. > I asked about this on FFmpeg-user and Carl Eugen Hoyos was wondering > if there was a spec for the correct handling of these kind of files. I > thought ye might know? > http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-user/2018-December/042273.html "matroska is not a useful container for rawvideo because it is not well defined, use nut instead." As everyone knows, nut is well defined... > Does V_QUICKTIME sound correct? I does not to me. Isn't TIFF a picture container ? Looking at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF it seems there are a lot of specific things. Some of the "compression schemes" are supported in Matroska like deflate (although it says Adobe variant)  JPEG (via MJPEG). It seems that a remuxing would miss some of the specifics of TIFF. Converting is always an option for lossless sources without losing anything. > > In my original email to ffmpeg-user, I mistakingly thought that DPX > also had the same issue, but that was my mistake. FFmpeg uses > V_MS/VFW/FOURCC / dpx > The reason why I am investigating this, even though it might seem a > bit odd is: > > It seems that rewrapping DPX/TIFF to Matroska (or QuickTime it seems) > via ffmpeg is reversible, producing the same wholefile checksum values > when returning from MKV to the original format. With TIFF or DPX you > just need to be careful to use the correct compression algorithm and > pix_fmt. What variant of TIFF is this ? And what "codec" is used when stored in Matroska ? FFV1 ? > > This is pretty interesting because while FFV1 compresses very well for > film scans, I found with some limited tests that the compression ratio > for born digital DCDM sequences is quite poor. I don't have figures at > the moment, but from what I saw the value of encoding time vs file > size reduction was not worth it. I am going to proceed with further > tests and perhaps my sample suite was too small, so I think this is > still worth investigating. > > With DCDM, reversibility is essential as all of our DCDM are deposits > or donations. So I was thinking about ZIP as the most likely option, > but it would be pretty cool to be able to rewrap to Matroska and to be > able to reverse back to the original files. As this is just a stream > copy, the process is very fast. > > Best, > > Kieran O'Leary > Irish FIlm Insitute. > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:24:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F268F131164 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gqqjdI3-XP0R for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 7.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (7.mo69.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.50.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F0E9131175 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:24:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from player771.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.159.132]) by mo69.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9473F3664C for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:24:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from mediaarea.net (p5DDB4599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.219.69.153]) (Authenticated sender: jerome@mediaarea.net) by player771.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1ED16F6D6C2 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:24:26 +0000 (UTC) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <6e161b3f-57ba-abf2-7dd5-0a85a15684f9@matroska.org> From: Jerome Martinez Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:24:26 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6e161b3f-57ba-abf2-7dd5-0a85a15684f9@matroska.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 3263420883038441617 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudeikedggeelucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfdpvefjgfevmfevgfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecuhedttdenuc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:24:35 -0000 On 18/12/2018 18:10, Steve Lhomme wrote: > On 08/12/2018 13:25, Kieran O Leary wrote: > > >> Does V_QUICKTIME sound correct? > > I does not to me. It is in that case for the moment, as QuickTime method supports TIFF, and there is no direct mapping of TIFF to Matroska. > Isn't TIFF a picture container ? Looking at this > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF it seems there are a lot of > specific things. Some of the "compression schemes" are supported in > Matroska like deflate (although it says Adobe variant)  JPEG (via MJPEG). > > It seems that a remuxing would miss some of the specifics of TIFF. > Converting is always an option for lossless sources without losing > anything. You lose DPX or TIFF metadata. you lose the easy Matroska support by tool already supporting TIFF and DPX. You lose a simple remux without having to map pixel to another raw pixel format if you don't want to use a compression format for speed issues (which one? using again AVI or QuickTime wrapping?) > What variant of TIFF is this ? And what "codec" is used when stored in > Matroska ? FFV1 ? In my opinion, this is going too far here, storing DPX or TIFF in Matroska would be just storing raw DPX or TIFF files as is, without any change to the input files. So there is no "variant" to check, the decoder is in charge to handle the format as it is, issue is in DPX or TIFF. As we don't provide any specific metadata to AVC saying if CABAC is used or any AVC specific stuff (we just transport the AVC stream, CodecPrivate is init used by the decoder and not by the container). In short, in my opinion the need is just to remove AVI or QuickTime overhead and map V_DPX to DPX format and V_TIFF to TIFF format as AVI and QuickTime do. Jérôme From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:28:58 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45682131174 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QjMxlhIn5l3 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x443.google.com (mail-wr1-x443.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::443]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25DAA131173 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x443.google.com with SMTP id 96so16780495wrb.2 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=BnANwu0WARkEjo/YPfGezmGhatu5d2ViNkfZMpUxo3U=; b=m2FzUXE0JYBQ4xOxby3at+WsIVH6vTIYGC729VEmlBLVEckkt+Nz3v9mJEc7BVQeFw Xbp7/mBtqmbOPQoUXKkbIY2AqieOLEQ5HmFthIF59mvNXBfCvK6Mwn7htJFJbbOxqEtZ +GHkvqD7Yq+4W3Ns1WL0Wl3A3wT6lgPwY3uBkxMP74pp7PP/YnnxqNdLIaFG3GUNQ0wy p38/rIvC3GhN3ioISkSGrVjiepbWJMfJYRx36bCDmTpAXU0RvSzwQeBazXBb30IrRazF oVoQziQ7lLlsnbW7ddTg8PnJmK2PFcCSf6t9Jr17sxDZDq9vJ2dQ1FjNLOpBAYbbYZ7R 9tTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=BnANwu0WARkEjo/YPfGezmGhatu5d2ViNkfZMpUxo3U=; b=e+Mv3jMyKBlMFFy9WLgRcwB4UJttQL+CKTzT1HdRc1s0UI0VQY+UgXAsCZIUbqPeT2 61QkDBCRQDVY+jgh2xQNyh4BumL4Sr8fu6Q4f8FYwyrOO+8rJKbJ1+o2z/SXFAaIJd35 Jb++sz35Q1AxyQb4yi1rejUdXUahcXujZ5gXjW4Coci9RKU5I0QQYyU8i4QCl8/PndPR cEjxPhS20Fwg0GlCUMeJIRuL4b26mXeiN/g/RzCQhWMtxgjR7s2zNfDYb7BH8dT80LoN ZLBYUzzHS8kkeIOx6jinMiSfphutNTFaS41L7TYf3SARFPofXoGkWri+AXCzaXBJdVWK FoOA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWayW7tI3SMp6o3ojZ2gQ3tidUBofBX9ZQnhfRW65OVuTBPoXNr5 89omUe4INP4uzRh00yvDS+hGXu28604v2w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VOGBY1RUrA2Cvu297tedqR3d90Ext9T3Y0OwBhWgmTs588jjFpsyHJ6mstam+MV9/6TuYHnA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:9205:: with SMTP id 5mr6049421wrj.189.1545154133001; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.3.19] (229.74.9.109.rev.sfr.net. [109.9.74.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r3sm3196182wrs.78.2018.12.18.09.28.51 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:28:52 -0800 (PST) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <6e161b3f-57ba-abf2-7dd5-0a85a15684f9@matroska.org> From: Steve Lhomme Message-ID: <2949ce48-8c1c-8f55-239e-3c3a86c245f6@matroska.org> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:28:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:28:57 -0000 On 18/12/2018 18:24, Jerome Martinez wrote: > On 18/12/2018 18:10, Steve Lhomme wrote: >> On 08/12/2018 13:25, Kieran O Leary wrote: >> >> >>> Does V_QUICKTIME sound correct? >> >> I does not to me. > > It is in that case for the moment, as QuickTime method supports TIFF, > and there is no direct mapping of TIFF to Matroska. > > >> Isn't TIFF a picture container ? Looking at this >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF it seems there are a lot of >> specific things. Some of the "compression schemes" are supported in >> Matroska like deflate (although it says Adobe variant)  JPEG (via >> MJPEG). >> >> It seems that a remuxing would miss some of the specifics of TIFF. >> Converting is always an option for lossless sources without losing >> anything. > > You lose DPX or TIFF metadata. you lose the easy Matroska support by > tool already supporting TIFF and DPX. You lose a simple remux without > having to map pixel to another raw pixel format if you don't want to > use a compression format for speed issues (which one? using again AVI > or QuickTime wrapping?) > > >> What variant of TIFF is this ? And what "codec" is used when stored >> in Matroska ? FFV1 ? > > In my opinion, this is going too far here, storing DPX or TIFF in > Matroska would be just storing raw DPX or TIFF files as is, without > any change to the input files. So a TIFF file would become a Matroska frame ? There's no metadata to extract ? If there's a mapping to do it should at least extract some of them like the pixel sizes. Does it vary between TIFF variants ? Or there's a common header ? > So there is no "variant" to check, the decoder is in charge to handle > the format as it is, issue is in DPX or TIFF. > As we don't provide any specific metadata to AVC saying if CABAC is > used or any AVC specific stuff (we just transport the AVC stream, > CodecPrivate is init used by the decoder and not by the container). > > In short, in my opinion the need is just to remove AVI or QuickTime > overhead and map V_DPX to DPX format and V_TIFF to TIFF format as AVI > and QuickTime do. > > Jérôme > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar From nobody Tue Dec 18 09:44:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66C8131169 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:44:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HcUR_JUaExaq for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from 3.mo178.mail-out.ovh.net (3.mo178.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.44.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2859D130EBF for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 09:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from player728.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.143.232]) by mo178.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C93864154F for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:44:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from mediaarea.net (p5DDB4599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.219.69.153]) (Authenticated sender: jerome@mediaarea.net) by player728.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71442E145E7 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:44:14 +0000 (UTC) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <6e161b3f-57ba-abf2-7dd5-0a85a15684f9@matroska.org> <2949ce48-8c1c-8f55-239e-3c3a86c245f6@matroska.org> From: Jerome Martinez Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:44:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2949ce48-8c1c-8f55-239e-3c3a86c245f6@matroska.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 3597813153538838673 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtkedrudeikedgheefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfdpvefjgfevmfevgfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecuhedttdenuc Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] Codec ID for rewrapped TIFF in Matroska X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:44:19 -0000 On 18/12/2018 18:28, Steve Lhomme wrote: > > So a TIFF file would become a Matroska frame ? As in other containers (AVI or MOV) and/or other image formats e.g. JPEG or JPEG 2000 in other containers, this is the idea. > There's no metadata to extract ? > If there's a mapping to do it should at least extract some of them > like the pixel sizes. Does it vary between TIFF variants ? Or there's > a common header ? I wanted to mean that there is no specific metadata to add e.g. compression and so on, this is for the DPX or TIFF decoder as it currently does for single images on disk. For the mandatory video related metadata (width, height), this is as other formats, the muxer needs to probe it, but it is really easy and does not depends on "variants" (standards fields). Jérôme From nobody Tue Dec 18 10:18:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7723613119F for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:18:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39J_t8K5fQs1 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24E551311A0 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIIIUn9016416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:18:32 +0100 Received: from Castor.local ([IPv6:2a02:aa13:4680:f280:95e6:cdf:c68:d6f4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIIITbp012066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:18:30 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:18:30 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <4064.1544999966@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:18:39 -0000 Michael Richardson wrote: >CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting >December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC I do my possible to be there. Best regards, Reto From nobody Tue Dec 18 10:46:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC5571311C4 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:46:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PTryOGVWM0dV for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it1-x130.google.com (mail-it1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44B7A1200B3 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it1-x130.google.com with SMTP id c9so5721835itj.1 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:46:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4+G+xzCArj6m7/rqFrXqNdidNqIKkh7aFhViPOtWKZE=; b=W8mqsDMkbuFA7C/BXjYtc3SDHT8aVOCP54AN4zK8ipSv2fK9ZSqWMp/Egn5l5y9N2K HSAp94Xfdcr5y2wvN8slK5ejmO9LiZQC+gH/JFzxw7qO1+b3dUG8oTdALNM7u7yXSWCQ YRm/kNvTy77+kmm1rIqnOn+4tnI0KWseEesVb9SdGeUq9Maf4OMDT34s/1id69iOzZVn ud4B36ptItB4MBO9BXXgTsh9isX2oZci0+MdlhKk2iIcu2RMsHr3bwncfFtXXFUqgZir wGiP4njS3/D41TB8ud8ZvMZqyVBuJsGfCcgFzTxtx0DeJaH8foZypAKkX/wLAN84PRrZ 7dyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=4+G+xzCArj6m7/rqFrXqNdidNqIKkh7aFhViPOtWKZE=; b=mGBt/jG36I2roN1XG2J8Oq2l1lALd7i13E8bcBW98EXOjwjOGG99RmkTFxp10dc4tR 3Qwv5ABOBxhQJpZX7C4K1c0e7JPo1DBF4+gjI8TBT1cDVRvtsEW9uj/RNKCmCi90Ml82 7VMsqsEkwZfjZ1qTK7GXZtzzor6q2v+O9Sqr9VRHQpRQ9Z9/P8nG7Cyohudvc4LSi76e RTaukN+WnPKdULOsq/f04QmaInLf7dV00RWXH6n9pokHmwqMZ0G1HNvpEGH5vCBkuer1 Mlvps4Zs2KhgEjDSkN5bnr+uJoB5mNI/KBwmo5H7F8oncExWuhkHXmIsyL2znGzogITv dKQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbSsx+Kdn/itCDYSGm04wig6qAVhRNUWKHiOcmofGmwOWev5Jl+ MzLZ99l6D/TBrV6DmIO1UpYkpJc9Txts0Xu+q1Bh9Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VheSS784ddyb8jg2ObEsgSxLiYoehmWfw9enV4Bs0VzuL03S6KY6XRCZH40Oy88QzDs1l7N/S6BioLisUPqKo= X-Received: by 2002:a02:9d27:: with SMTP id n36mr15924376jak.30.1545158788219; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:46:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> In-Reply-To: From: Ashley Blewer Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 13:46:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b18837057d50501b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:46:32 -0000 --000000000000b18837057d50501b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sending my regards! Also have work obligations. Ashley On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:18 PM Reto Kromer wrote: > Michael Richardson wrote: > > >CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting > >December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC > > I do my possible to be there. Best regards, Reto > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar > --000000000000b18837057d50501b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sending my regards! Also have work obligations.
=

Ashley

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:18 PM Reto Kromer <lists@reto.ch> wrote:
Michael Richardson wrote:

>CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
>December 18, 2018=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 20:00 UTC

I do my possible to be there. Best regards, Reto

_______________________________________________
Cellar mailing list
Cellar@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar
--000000000000b18837057d50501b-- From nobody Tue Dec 18 11:43:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701EF130F0F for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dBfck2xvHnkk for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (relay7-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC22D130F06 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:43:29 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 213.47.41.20 Received: from localhost (213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [213.47.41.20]) (Authenticated sender: michael@niedermayer.cc) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A493320003; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:43:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:43:25 +0100 From: Michael Niedermayer To: Michael Richardson Cc: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="/Kwy1es1GwkEJhNg" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4064.1544999966@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 19:43:32 -0000 --/Kwy1es1GwkEJhNg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 05:39:26PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > {In preparing the agenda, I've discovered my webex account has been clean= ed > up. I will have a URL/meeting# by the end of Monday, and I'll update the = agenda} >=20 >=20 > CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting > December 18, 2018 20:00 UTC I may or may not be able to attend as webex seems not to work ATM for me both firefox and chromium show at https://www.webex.com/test-meeting.html " Your browser, browser version, or operating system is currently unsupport= ed. =20 For details, check the system requirements." clicking on "system requirements" shows nothing resembling system requireme= nts. I do see a firefox extension that can be manually installed for=20 "Operating System: Mac, Windows Desktop" not that i really consider to manually install binary addons to my browser = for=20 things like this ... am i the only one on linux for whom this doesnt work ? also iam not sure i have the time ATM to troubble shoot this ... it worked last time ... [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Asymptotically faster algorithms should always be preferred if you have asymptotical amounts of data --/Kwy1es1GwkEJhNg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEUEARECAAYFAlwZTd0ACgkQYR7HhwQLD6sUPACfbz30YyCUumiwv8w3HmdKGJb+ uzkAmKZToMTuhhKAJobBKUqKoe3YK4M= =xnAl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --/Kwy1es1GwkEJhNg-- From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:03:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E145130F06 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sOpJWBVGI41l for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh2.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C68912D84D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp6.infomaniak.ch (smtp6.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.19]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIK3eGb030273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:03:40 +0100 Received: from Castor.local ([IPv6:2a02:aa13:4680:f280:95e6:cdf:c68:d6f4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp6.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIK3d79038400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:03:40 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:03:40 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:03:46 -0000 Michael Niedermayer wrote: >am i the only one on linux for whom this doesnt work ? No, I cannot login either. Reto From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:05:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E49512D84D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:05:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rp6PLjJYI91X for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:05:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (smtp1.mdc1.mozilla.com [63.245.208.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 742D6130F06 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:05:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost4.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B67709A051; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:05:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hCksTXRxjSfl; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:05:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.252.27.27] (unknown [63.245.221.198]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52E339A04A; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:05:13 +0000 (UTC) To: Michael Niedermayer , Michael Richardson Cc: cellar@ietf.org References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" Message-ID: <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:05:12 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:05:19 -0000 Michael Niedermayer wrote: > am i the only one on linux for whom this doesnt work ? > also iam not sure i have the time ATM to troubble shoot this ... > it worked last time ... I have a Mac I use explicitly for these things (the "proprietary software containment device", as I call it), and it doesn't work anymore, either. I think WebEx must have gone through some update that broke a lot of backwards compatibility. Unfortunately, Michael Richardson e-mailed me an hour ago to say his laptop had released its magic smoke, so I think he may be unable to join also. From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:12:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 123BF130F19 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:12:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pEdkrPPjOyLE for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch [128.65.195.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AFF8128D0C for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.infomaniak.ch (smtp7.infomaniak.ch [83.166.132.30]) by smtp-sh.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIKCdiV008887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:12:39 +0100 Received: from Castor.local ([IPv6:2a02:aa13:4680:f280:95e6:cdf:c68:d6f4]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp7.infomaniak.ch (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id wBIKCcHF103374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:12:39 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:12:39 +0100 From: Reto Kromer To: cellar@ietf.org X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mailsmith 2.4.3 (480) X-Antivirus: Dr.Web (R) for Unix mail servers drweb plugin ver.6.0.2.8 X-Antivirus-Code: 0x100000 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:12:44 -0000 Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: >I have a Mac I use explicitly for these things On a Mac as well, it does not work on my side. I give up. Bye, Reto From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:15:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7564A128D0C for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9MFIha5li1Xr for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (smtp1.mdc1.mozilla.com [63.245.208.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5757130F19 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost4.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1379A051; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:15:37 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received: from smtp.mozilla.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uFmx-ZRqTJlD; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:15:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.252.27.27] (unknown [63.245.221.198]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by smtp1.mail.mdc1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3884C9A04A; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:15:37 +0000 (UTC) From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" To: Michael Niedermayer , Michael Richardson Cc: cellar@ietf.org References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:15:36 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:15:39 -0000 Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: > Unfortunately, Michael Richardson e-mailed me an hour ago to say his > laptop had released its magic smoke, so I think he may be unable to join > also. It looks like Michael was able to join on a backup machine, so the meeting is on. If nothing else you can connect via the phone. Most of the important things to see will be on the etherpad, so it should be fine. From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:18:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8DC1311E2 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hI5AyiJhMR1B for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com (mail-wr1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::431]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E11DC130FC2 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id l9so17187996wrt.13 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=matroska-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=ME2U9cVv7Cfi1D7TVQzTWrPbi8gyMzY+iA5kctBRFH4=; b=S9AY5Ca8PrtiIxxHUwIF3WEmqwk0oibJzCgdD4DBNABeCVujFJkgul7zWSIJwpy7E/ MkHHWuu/95EgarwsxwYBqI+024+rYYs6scZrNS8Z9tIDpAgvn4EFs8beTgIKohQGYzCX sUEV3Va0UmvxWIG3bUaOhToLc/2/kT6wZvS/nfh9M7l9st09p7eP8g/nQnFmLbWDuFFK 9Crk0OBmL02z8PdYgtnyNn152gwejmZ7UIed027o75Zgs5XZdbO99CGN9VGsbSpp3FRs pHvp8urN/p5w4M7iD8ApNbtoCASTXCH3PFKmgNzubIVGhH8klWEUg6hZXzegJAYvS1WJ XsVA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=ME2U9cVv7Cfi1D7TVQzTWrPbi8gyMzY+iA5kctBRFH4=; b=QmQBrap1yv2hJdmGShopcEd/jSU+80OPCfLJB+ALPUHsPaNDf+sjjDN1odZpGmuXnQ uOPgZoVICkW/YpUo8D1QfUfLJGznB2yPpZEDRiSuu9CzK+fnp4F9gW9+rPb23JNXas8n b6bxJCi7WvYfUUQX/68k3x1+k6W/N0g/3surcBlY4mOo/g4KHecnpNN0WLPXdrfvj89g jsqR5Av86tXGeopXcuXQF8+6NfALuyRPpO0CqM0oguJeWOxQysZ4dxdqE1CoPrJxKJB5 gi3kZWCIUAN9v9YVTtLyaBzOlbArmaPkIT82jkcfS3YFmoTceSZDoe9oe0nLVtpI4Xme pzxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYWnB/KReTYndArxtYO9tpi/HXwOgXKA9+4prWd+085nzXZWQgg nDs/lLqFWWNTSR23e7QVqMxgQNafhwhQqw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/ViOsj7pTxKo5zY7Vjc9MgWBTqy6/VpJ6nqRzAkjn0605Zks9kqzSAQh840Kkxtd3nZ9LhAhA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f9cb:: with SMTP id w11mr15706733wrr.201.1545164325956; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.3.19] (229.74.9.109.rev.sfr.net. [109.9.74.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x12sm2025006wmc.37.2018.12.18.12.18.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:18:45 -0800 (PST) To: cellar@ietf.org References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> From: Steve Lhomme Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:18:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:18:50 -0000 Works for me in Firefox on Windows. Except I thought the meeting was 1h later :/ On 18/12/2018 21:15, Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: > Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: >> Unfortunately, Michael Richardson e-mailed me an hour ago to say his >> laptop had released its magic smoke, so I think he may be unable to >> join also. > > It looks like Michael was able to join on a backup machine, so the > meeting is on. If nothing else you can connect via the phone. Most of > the important things to see will be on the etherpad, so it should be > fine. > > _______________________________________________ > Cellar mailing list > Cellar@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:31:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84126128D0C for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:31:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6duow11kSRi6 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:31:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE34D130F30 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:31:15 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: 213.47.41.20 Received: from localhost (213-47-41-20.cable.dynamic.surfer.at [213.47.41.20]) (Authenticated sender: michael@niedermayer.cc) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84090E0009 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 21:31:11 +0100 From: Michael Niedermayer To: cellar@ietf.org Message-ID: <20181218203111.GY3511@michaelspb> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LGr9gtkSK9ARF7Ax" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:31:26 -0000 --LGr9gtkSK9ARF7Ax Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:15:36PM -0800, Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: > Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: > >Unfortunately, Michael Richardson e-mailed me an hour ago to say his > >laptop had released its magic smoke, so I think he may be unable to join > >also. >=20 > It looks like Michael was able to join on a backup machine, so the meeting > is on. If nothing else you can connect via the phone. Most of the importa= nt > things to see will be on the etherpad, so it should be fine. whats the link to the etherpad ? the one posted is for an old meeting https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospaceFont= =3Dtrue editing the number to 05 is still a old meeting and 06 is empty [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB If you think the mosad wants you dead since a long time then you are either wrong or dead since a long time. --LGr9gtkSK9ARF7Ax Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlwZWQ8ACgkQYR7HhwQLD6vhwgCgj32vbv4FGfqntUEYd6kVPfs/ g1cAn1iw++rcgSTFplprOA0Cv5GWnsqp =sR5x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LGr9gtkSK9ARF7Ax-- From nobody Tue Dec 18 12:33:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F7F612D84D for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:33:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6tOCGBurVNSu for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from server172-3.web-hosting.com (server172-3.web-hosting.com [68.65.122.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C92B7128D0C for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [146.96.19.240] (port=24616 helo=[10.10.201.39]) by server172.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1gZM37-001yRg-Vz; Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:33:06 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Dave Rice In-Reply-To: <20181218203111.GY3511@michaelspb> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 15:33:05 -0500 Cc: cellar@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <114AC43A-7CBB-41FA-B3C7-3F5F46DA3B16@dericed.com> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> <776f379a-6452-be06-594d-aed7efab8197@xiph.org> <20181218203111.GY3511@michaelspb> To: Michael Niedermayer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server172.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - dericed.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server172.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: dave@dericed.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server172.web-hosting.com: dave@dericed.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 20:33:10 -0000 > On Dec 18, 2018, at 3:31 PM, Michael Niedermayer = wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:15:36PM -0800, Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: >> Timothy B. Terriberry wrote: >>> Unfortunately, Michael Richardson e-mailed me an hour ago to say his >>> laptop had released its magic smoke, so I think he may be unable to = join >>> also. >>=20 >> It looks like Michael was able to join on a backup machine, so the = meeting >> is on. If nothing else you can connect via the phone. Most of the = important >> things to see will be on the etherpad, so it should be fine. >=20 > whats the link to the etherpad ? > the one posted is for an old meeting > = https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual04?useMonospaceFont=3D= true > editing the number to 05 is still a old meeting and 06 is empty Despite the date on that etherpad, it is what we are using in the = current meeting. Related to our discussion on FFV1, I just added a = comment at = https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/pull/111#issuecomment-448359789. Dave From nobody Wed Dec 19 14:55:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E663130EEA for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:55:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTmFBZdD8NGI for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1FD1130E7F for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 14:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8B662008C; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:55:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 15E07C55; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE323D2; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 17:55:08 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Michael Niedermayer cc: cellar@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> References: <4064.1544999966@localhost> <20181218194325.GX3511@michaelspb> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Cellar] DRAFT agenda for 2018-12-18 20:00 UTC meeting X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 22:55:12 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Niedermayer wrote: > I may or may not be able to attend as webex seems not to work ATM for > me both firefox and chromium show at > https://www.webex.com/test-meeting.html > " Your browser, browser version, or operating system is currently > unsupported. =20 > For details, check the system requirements." > clicking on "system requirements" shows nothing resembling system > requirements. Yeah, ignore it, and use the link in the agenda, as it does work. As agreed at the end of the call, we will use appear.in in January. > am i the only one on linux for whom this doesnt work ? also iam not You are not the only one, but it does work, cisco is just really dumb. =2D-=20 ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAlwazEsACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUxnAf/RCqLv2e9vqr01H05Fx249uLWSQP8tswpYSiVnCCBrOqW3dw1uBRKlFFg w77U4sAWzXAswEp4bhC0usUvwN8obEl71tTj+Ek7oW5dR103cXDcBlr6L9RhgcJU LB4ucUnEmJMkKjD8aTbUWJsEmDS8B+GtJw2EEDgVlJjhWMyOtX6NrOvzdQBmFt+/ rMnES+sIWkZRenOn9W0lMyCZ/7oGINHv3sYJ6dnqjSKPzljmIPzUMNtmjeCLly5x avu3Uuy3QE2kXrbUmHT/wRpMSh2/Kj3Zej07aJc+BmH0OcEbx3dbf7P6tqtizuIZ fxXjJilGQi5sh4nyxw2g2iZ15sil+g== =Jf7I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--