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Mon, 3 Oct 2016 20:27:37 +0000 Received: from BN6PR10MB1395.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.30.17]) by BN6PR10MB1395.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.30.17]) with mapi id 15.01.0549.027; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 20:27:36 +0000 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: "'clue@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions Thread-Index: AdIds1GZ3OGvexDFQpyGFEMXwkHzKw== Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 20:27:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2601:18c:8800:1250:883e:6825:904d:b4be] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 19c8f530-57cc-407e-62e6-08d3ebcbb6d6 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN6PR10MB1396; 20:rAxWR1k9iN6fa2WLSGPttTlEi2f4/x05QYSdS9ii0GypNtZjOZYtzpaq7yeD+xVfRL42nMnND3ojTN0g2xa2Hj1RDUbKZM7/n1k7bzYXYkHKZnpnf3tEgDDT8y0TxI5Hm63+LY3LaqR9ljXgfmMTACmwwDAEu5OeSYzpSKZMlUBuV/lyGOcTtYiauEBZXkm66shGOx04gi/q/qCs/Uur9WMZqPodWaJ/D5hblKa+CCXPynGcxRIwYzeSzzOcxbFi x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN6PR10MB1396; 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: polycom.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1A81_01D21D93.0B915E80" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2016 20:27:36.5481 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1396 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE01V.polycom.com Archived-At: Subject: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:27:45 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_1A81_01D21D93.0B915E80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_1A82_01D21D93.0B915E80" ------=_NextPart_001_1A82_01D21D93.0B915E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the single paragraph with the following: =================== begin proposed change ===================== 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's attributes like the spatial information. This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than one original MC is composed into the MCC. If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the MCC. If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this mechanism. If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST . =================== end proposed change ===================== I think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the rtp-mapping-08 version. I left the placeholder text in the last sentence because I don't know what we should do for this case. As a more concrete example, suppose the media provider advertises it can send an MCC with between 1 and 4 MCs in it at any given time. And suppose it advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, MC4, MC5, etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in the MCC, it uses this header extension to associate MC1 with the MC. Then later it decides to send a composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Now what? The consumer wants to know that MC1 is no longer the only MC in the MCC. But there is no way for the provider to say it is sending MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Could there be some reserved value in the RTP Header extension to mean "no CaptureID is indicated"? CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE data model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a text string. There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? Mark ------=_NextPart_001_1A82_01D21D93.0B915E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the = single paragraph with the following:

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= begin proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

5. MCC Constituent CaptureID = definition

For a MCC which can = represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is = represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a = mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to = address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and = SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the = consumer to use the original source MC’s attributes like the = spatial information.

 

This = mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the = captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the = MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than = one original MC is composed into the MCC.

 

If there = is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the = captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP = SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an = MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the = MCC.

 

If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC = then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs’ captureIDs = using this mechanism.

 

If the media = provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then = later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST = <need to fill this in with something that says the previous single MC = is no longer there>.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= end proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

I = think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the rtp-mapping-08 = version.

 

I left the placeholder text in the last sentence = because I don’t know what we should do for this case. As a more = concrete example, suppose the media provider advertises it can send an = MCC with between 1 and 4 MCs in it at any given time. And suppose it = advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, MC4, MC5, etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in = the MCC, it uses this header extension to associate MC1 with the MC. = Then later it decides to send a composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and = MC5. Now what? The consumer wants to know that MC1 is no longer the only = MC in the MCC. But there is no way for the provider to say it is sending = MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Could there be some reserved value in the RTP = Header extension to mean “no CaptureID is = indicated”?

 

CaptureID = format – It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte capture = ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE data model = says a captureID is of type “xs:ID” which is really a text = string. There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing = something?

 

Mark

 

 

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SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 65mLAUwDZWxN for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 14:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B50812956B for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 14:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.110]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id rAixboEcrRingrAj8bHefa; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:24:46 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-14v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id rAj8bpWn8Qak3rAj8bXECG; Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:24:46 +0000 To: clue@ietf.org References: From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <68bb87e6-910c-3636-b9ba-d5fd40b6cfea@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 17:24:46 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFGEr6a//Ce2t5x0Mq4yr7okY97eA3pRHTHpRpTVp1ZyVzmVFuzzSFd4cTddNDmK3a04X65TaGVYcSRUilj5FmknSgmNc1VZqYVUtxDD6O0YzJcdM4NI gCpfmJdUgHvUtmAQMkNzK7YsGHXkaZqSf28ryVmwUPvu2Ni19ky7Ayp4 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:24:49 -0000 After reading this I have a question: Suppose the media provider is switching an MCC from content that includes single source media capture to a composition of multiple captures, then what (if anything) does it send as a capttureID? If it doesn't send anything, then won't the recipient think it is still receiving the prior single MC? Thanks, Paul On 10/3/16 4:27 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the single paragraph > with the following: > > > > =================== begin proposed change ===================== > > 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition > > For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to > know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given > time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent > MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP header > extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, > allowing the consumer to use the original source MC’s attributes like > the spatial information. > > > > This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the > captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the > MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than > one original MC is composed into the MCC. > > > > If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the > captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP > SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an > MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the MCC. > > > > If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media > provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs’ captureIDs using this mechanism. > > > > If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into > an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same > MCC, it MUST single MC is no longer there>. > > =================== end proposed change ===================== > > > > I think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the > rtp-mapping-08 version. > > > > I left the placeholder text in the last sentence because I don’t know > what we should do for this case. As a more concrete example, suppose the > media provider advertises it can send an MCC with between 1 and 4 MCs in > it at any given time. And suppose it advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, MC4, MC5, > etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in the MCC, it uses this header > extension to associate MC1 with the MC. Then later it decides to send a > composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Now what? The consumer wants > to know that MC1 is no longer the only MC in the MCC. But there is no > way for the provider to say it is sending MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Could > there be some reserved value in the RTP Header extension to mean “no > CaptureID is indicated”? > > > > CaptureID format – It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte > capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE data > model says a captureID is of type “xs:ID” which is really a text string. > There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > From nobody Mon Oct 3 16:16:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7FCA12944D for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2016 16:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=plcm365.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t-gNkkuHP8X4 for ; 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H:BN6PR10MB1395.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: polycom.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1B69_01D21DAA.8F238040" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Oct 2016 23:15:55.1426 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1394 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE02V.polycom.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 23:16:02 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_1B69_01D21DAA.8F238040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Paul, That is exactly the question I was asking. Maybe my wording wasn't clear, but that is the question to answer in order to fill in the placeholder text in the brackets "< need to fill this in with something that says the previous single MC is no longer there >" below. I was hoping Jonathan or Roni would have an idea. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 5:25 PM > To: clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions > > After reading this I have a question: > > Suppose the media provider is switching an MCC from content that > includes single source media capture to a composition of multiple > captures, then what (if anything) does it send as a capttureID? If it > doesn't send anything, then won't the recipient think it is still > receiving the prior single MC? > > Thanks, > Paul > > On 10/3/16 4:27 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > > I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the single paragraph > > with the following: > > > > > > > > =================== begin proposed change > ===================== > > > > 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition > > > > For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to > > know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given > > time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent > > MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP header > > extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, > > allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's attributes like > > the spatial information. > > > > > > > > This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the > > captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the > > MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more > than > > one original MC is composed into the MCC. > > > > > > > > If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the > > captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP > > SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within > an > > MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the > MCC. > > > > > > > > If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media > > provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this > mechanism. > > > > > > > > If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into > > an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same > > MCC, it MUST > single MC is no longer there>. > > > > =================== end proposed change ===================== > > > > > > > > I think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the > > rtp-mapping-08 version. > > > > > > > > I left the placeholder text in the last sentence because I don't know > > what we should do for this case. As a more concrete example, suppose the > > media provider advertises it can send an MCC with between 1 and 4 MCs in > > it at any given time. And suppose it advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, MC4, MC5, > > etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in the MCC, it uses this header > > extension to associate MC1 with the MC. Then later it decides to send a > > composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Now what? The consumer > wants > > to know that MC1 is no longer the only MC in the MCC. But there is no > > way for the provider to say it is sending MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Could > > there be some reserved value in the RTP Header extension to mean "no > > CaptureID is indicated"? > > > > > > > > CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte > > capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE data > > model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a text string. > > There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > clue mailing list > > clue@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ------=_NextPart_000_1B69_01D21DAA.8F238040 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D4D1296F5 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PG2vM6DAsn_r for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 08:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A41271295E4 for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 08:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073109.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id u94FcbFw009928; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 11:43:09 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 25uy9q8n2k-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 04 Oct 2016 11:43:08 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 10:43:07 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Mark Duckworth Thread-Topic: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions Thread-Index: AdIds1GZ3OGvexDFQpyGFEMXwkHzKwACT7AAAAPJOsAALQ1LgA== Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 15:43:06 +0000 Message-ID: <67441CF3-5738-4E2B-AED5-ECF3D0D8D697@vidyo.com> References: <68bb87e6-910c-3636-b9ba-d5fd40b6cfea@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.220.24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-10-04_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1609300000 definitions=main-1610040268 Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2016 15:43:15 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE9jdCAzLCAyMDE2LCBhdCA3OjE1IFBNLCBEdWNrd29ydGgsIE1hcmsgPE1hcmsuRHVj a3dvcnRoQHBvbHljb20uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhpIFBhdWwsDQo+IFRoYXQgaXMgZXhh Y3RseSB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gSSB3YXMgYXNraW5nLiBNYXliZSBteSB3b3JkaW5nIHdhc24ndCBj 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+Pj4gY2x1ZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+PiBjbHVl QGlldGYub3JnDQo+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9jbHVl DQo+Pj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQo+PiBjbHVlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gY2x1ZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9jbHVlDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IGNsdWUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IGNs dWVAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9jbHVl DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Oct 4 08:49:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F369A1295EF for ; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 08:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 10:49:33 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Mark Duckworth Thread-Topic: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions Thread-Index: AdIds1GZ3OGvexDFQpyGFEMXwkHzKwACT7AAAAPJOsAALQ1LgAAAOYWA Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 15:49:33 +0000 Message-ID: <49EA8EF0-2029-4F73-A70B-33C42B55F1B0@vidyo.com> References: <68bb87e6-910c-3636-b9ba-d5fd40b6cfea@alum.mit.edu> <67441CF3-5738-4E2B-AED5-ECF3D0D8D697@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <67441CF3-5738-4E2B-AED5-ECF3D0D8D697@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.220.24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0455CC01D3D66F4DB9B293548607377A@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-10-04_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1609300000 definitions=main-1610040271 Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2016 15:49:40 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE9jdCA0LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMTo0MyBBTSwgSm9uYXRoYW4gTGVubm94IDxqb25hdGhh bkB2aWR5by5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+PiBPbiBPY3QgMywgMjAxNiwgYXQgNzoxNSBQ TSwgRHVja3dvcnRoLCBNYXJrIDxNYXJrLkR1Y2t3b3J0aEBwb2x5Y29tLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+ PiANCj4+IEhpIFBhdWwsDQo+PiBUaGF0IGlzIGV4YWN0bHkgdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIEkgd2FzIGFz 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1D77_01D21E35.EE79B7E0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Oct 2016 15:53:33.8520 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1396 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE01V.polycom.com Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2016 15:54:12 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_1D77_01D21E35.EE79B7E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Before going too far with this, I think we need clarification on my = other concern (copied from below): > CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte > capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE = data > model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a text = string. > There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:50 AM > To: Duckworth, Mark > Cc: Paul Kyzivat ; clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and = questions >=20 >=20 > > On Oct 4, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Jonathan Lennox > wrote: > > > > > >> On Oct 3, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Duckworth, Mark > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Paul, > >> That is exactly the question I was asking. Maybe my wording wasn't = clear, > >> but that is the question to answer in order to fill in the = placeholder text > >> in the brackets "< need to fill this in with something that says = the > >> previous single MC is no longer there >" below. > >> > >> I was hoping Jonathan or Roni would have an idea. > > > > Hm, yes, this is a good point. > > > > A zero-length SDES item is syntactically valid in RFC 3550, as far = as I can tell. > I=E2=80=99ll ask on the AVTCore list what people think of using that = to mean =E2=80=9Cno > applicable value for this SDES item.=E2=80=9D >=20 > Hm, on a slight amount of further reflection, while that could = potentially > work for SDES items and for the two-byte form of header extensions, it > won't for the one-byte form (which doesn=E2=80=99t allow zero-length = values). I > suspect one-byte header extensions will be the preferred form, so = that=E2=80=99s a > bad outcome. >=20 > Maybe we need to reserve a special value for CaptureID, perhaps = =E2=80=9C-=E2=80=9D, to > mean =E2=80=9Cno applicable value=E2=80=9D. Any problems with = reserving that value? >=20 > >> Mark > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul = Kyzivat > >>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 5:25 PM > >>> To: clue@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and = questions > >>> > >>> After reading this I have a question: > >>> > >>> Suppose the media provider is switching an MCC from content that > >>> includes single source media capture to a composition of multiple > >>> captures, then what (if anything) does it send as a capttureID? If = it > >>> doesn't send anything, then won't the recipient think it is still > >>> receiving the prior single MC? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Paul > >>> > >>> On 10/3/16 4:27 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > >>>> I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the single = paragraph > >>>> with the following: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D begin = proposed change > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>> > >>>> 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition > >>>> > >>>> For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a = need > to > >>>> know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any = given > >>>> time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the > constituent > >>>> MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP > header > >>>> extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the = original MC, > >>>> allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's attributes = like > >>>> the spatial information. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream = with > the > >>>> captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched = into the > >>>> MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more > >>> than > >>>> one original MC is composed into the MCC. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST = send > the > >>>> captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as = a > RTCP > >>>> SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends > within > >>> an > >>>> MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched = into > the > >>> MCC. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the = media > >>>> provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this > >>> mechanism. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched = into > >>>> an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the > same > >>>> MCC, it MUST >>>> single MC is no longer there>. > >>>> > >>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D end = proposed change > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the > >>>> rtp-mapping-08 version. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I left the placeholder text in the last sentence because I don't = know > >>>> what we should do for this case. As a more concrete example, = suppose > the > >>>> media provider advertises it can send an MCC with between 1 and 4 > MCs in > >>>> it at any given time. And suppose it advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, = MC4, > MC5, > >>>> etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in the MCC, it uses this header > >>>> extension to associate MC1 with the MC. Then later it decides to = send a > >>>> composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Now what? The > consumer > >>> wants > >>>> to know that MC1 is no longer the only MC in the MCC. But there = is no > >>>> way for the provider to say it is sending MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. > Could > >>>> there be some reserved value in the RTP Header extension to mean > "no > >>>> CaptureID is indicated"? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 = byte > >>>> capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the = CLUE > data > >>>> model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a text = string. > >>>> There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? > >>>> > >>>> Mark ------=_NextPart_000_1D77_01D21E35.EE79B7E0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 VX0+Zg46w0wCHdkgq/GV3EKlyg0AsX8LgooGlUMeuUNpe+sT0WBl3mXB97TUw7mnRLY1m/IAlyFv 4XO8LfQ1L03vfLBRAVft7xc9Okm6DbHrPxFx9VKpgIkSIUvIx/BK0zXBa/0arWW3tfimfY9t5KdJ Wqb68E8Nb0bD8S0Ve0O76TCR4dVE/HmVj6YrauGcUGfvB4yT+bOOCGlsOw3NoHW2G9PZJF9B9PvV cWzv9Jw3AlzGU2sQMbVD1ZiiRgkG47bvqvi/tg38vWEDMj1lzSpMp/FhC8YrSaGb4YwjM52w9MXM 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([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Oct 2016 11:06:30 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Mark Duckworth Thread-Topic: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions Thread-Index: AdIds1GZ3OGvexDFQpyGFEMXwkHzKwACT7AAAAPJOsAALQ1LgAAAOYWAAApowED//7FygA== Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 16:06:30 +0000 Message-ID: <25D39E36-1B69-4838-B978-1CC2EC66999D@vidyo.com> References: <68bb87e6-910c-3636-b9ba-d5fd40b6cfea@alum.mit.edu> <67441CF3-5738-4E2B-AED5-ECF3D0D8D697@vidyo.com> <49EA8EF0-2029-4F73-A70B-33C42B55F1B0@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.220.24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-10-04_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1609300000 definitions=main-1610040276 Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2016 16:06:36 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE9jdCA0LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMTo1MyBBTSwgRHVja3dvcnRoLCBNYXJrIDxNYXJrLkR1 Y2t3b3J0aEBwb2x5Y29tLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBCZWZvcmUgZ29pbmcgdG9vIGZhciB3 aXRoIHRoaXMsIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UgbmVlZCBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIG9uIG15IG90aGVyIGNvbmNl cm4gKGNvcGllZCBmcm9tIGJlbG93KToNCj4gDQo+PiBDYXB0dXJlSUQgZm9ybWF0IC0gSXQgbG9v a3MgbGlrZSB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFsbG93cyBmb3IgYSAyIGJ5dGUNCj4+IGNhcHR1cmUgSUQg 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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1E61_01D21E3E.45C5EB10" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Oct 2016 16:53:17.6479 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1393 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE02V.polycom.com Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and questions X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2016 16:53:32 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_1E61_01D21E3E.45C5EB10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, I _was_ missing something! Now it makes sense. I will send another email with my updated proposed text for section 5. I = agree the value "-" should work meaning "no applicable value". Jonathan, will you update sections 5.1 and 5.2? The formatting of the = grids showing the bytes looks off in a few ways - top row of bit = numbering is not aligned, vertical separate bars not aligned, Len-1 = should be Length, I think. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 12:07 PM > To: Duckworth, Mark > Cc: Paul Kyzivat ; clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and = questions >=20 >=20 > > On Oct 4, 2016, at 11:53 AM, Duckworth, Mark > wrote: > > > > Before going too far with this, I think we need clarification on my = other > concern (copied from below): > > > >> CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 byte > >> capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the CLUE = data > >> model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a text = string. > >> There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? >=20 > No, SDES items are a text string. >=20 > RTP header extensions have two syntactic forms, often referred to as = the > =E2=80=9Cone-byte form=E2=80=9D (four bits type and four bits length), = and the =E2=80=9Ctwo-byte > form=E2=80=9D (eight bits type and eight bits length). The one-byte = form can encode > items 1 through 16 bytes long; the two-byte form 0 through 255. >=20 > I think the document=E2=80=99s use of the two-byte form is just meant = to be > illustrative, but on reflection it=E2=80=99s confusing, and = there=E2=80=99s no reason you > couldn=E2=80=99t use the one-byte form as well for short CaptureID = values. (We also > should be referencing RFC 7941.) That=E2=80=99s something to be fixed = in the next > revision. >=20 > Since CaptureID is indeed xs:ID, that=E2=80=99s good =E2=80=94 it = means that the single dash > isn=E2=80=99t a valid capture ID, so it will indeed be a good = =E2=80=9Cno applicable value=E2=80=9D > semantic. >=20 > > > > Mark > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:50 AM > >> To: Duckworth, Mark > >> Cc: Paul Kyzivat ; clue@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and = questions > >> > >> > >>> On Oct 4, 2016, at 11:43 AM, Jonathan Lennox > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Oct 3, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Duckworth, Mark > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Paul, > >>>> That is exactly the question I was asking. Maybe my wording = wasn't > clear, > >>>> but that is the question to answer in order to fill in the = placeholder text > >>>> in the brackets "< need to fill this in with something that says = the > >>>> previous single MC is no longer there >" below. > >>>> > >>>> I was hoping Jonathan or Roni would have an idea. > >>> > >>> Hm, yes, this is a good point. > >>> > >>> A zero-length SDES item is syntactically valid in RFC 3550, as far = as I can > tell. > >> I=E2=80=99ll ask on the AVTCore list what people think of using = that to mean =E2=80=9Cno > >> applicable value for this SDES item.=E2=80=9D > >> > >> Hm, on a slight amount of further reflection, while that could = potentially > >> work for SDES items and for the two-byte form of header extensions, = it > >> won't for the one-byte form (which doesn=E2=80=99t allow = zero-length values). I > >> suspect one-byte header extensions will be the preferred form, so = that=E2=80=99s > a > >> bad outcome. > >> > >> Maybe we need to reserve a special value for CaptureID, perhaps = =E2=80=9C-=E2=80=9D, to > >> mean =E2=80=9Cno applicable value=E2=80=9D. Any problems with = reserving that value? > >> > >>>> Mark > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul = Kyzivat > >>>>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2016 5:25 PM > >>>>> To: clue@ietf.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [clue] Clarifications for rtp-mapping ClientID, and > questions > >>>>> > >>>>> After reading this I have a question: > >>>>> > >>>>> Suppose the media provider is switching an MCC from content that > >>>>> includes single source media capture to a composition of = multiple > >>>>> captures, then what (if anything) does it send as a capttureID? = If it > >>>>> doesn't send anything, then won't the recipient think it is = still > >>>>> receiving the prior single MC? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Paul > >>>>> > >>>>> On 10/3/16 4:27 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > >>>>>> I have a proposed change to section 5, to replace the single > paragraph > >>>>>> with the following: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D begin = proposed change > >>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a > need > >> to > >>>>>> know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any > given > >>>>>> time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the > >> constituent > >>>>>> MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an = RTP > >> header > >>>>>> extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the = original > MC, > >>>>>> allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's = attributes like > >>>>>> the spatial information. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream > with > >> the > >>>>>> captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched = into the > >>>>>> MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where > more > >>>>> than > >>>>>> one original MC is composed into the MCC. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST > send > >> the > >>>>>> captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and = as a > >> RTCP > >>>>>> SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends > >> within > >>>>> an > >>>>>> MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched > into > >> the > >>>>> MCC. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the > media > >>>>>> provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this > >>>>> mechanism. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC = switched > into > >>>>>> an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in = the > >> same > >>>>>> MCC, it MUST previous > >>>>>> single MC is no longer there>. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D end = proposed change > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think this new text is just clarifying the intent of the > >>>>>> rtp-mapping-08 version. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I left the placeholder text in the last sentence because I = don't know > >>>>>> what we should do for this case. As a more concrete example, > suppose > >> the > >>>>>> media provider advertises it can send an MCC with between 1 and = 4 > >> MCs in > >>>>>> it at any given time. And suppose it advertises MC1, MC2, MC3, = MC4, > >> MC5, > >>>>>> etc. Then when it sends just MC1 in the MCC, it uses this = header > >>>>>> extension to associate MC1 with the MC. Then later it decides = to > send a > >>>>>> composed image of MC1, MC2, MC4, and MC5. Now what? The > >> consumer > >>>>> wants > >>>>>> to know that MC1 is no longer the only MC in the MCC. But there = is > no > >>>>>> way for the provider to say it is sending MC1, MC2, MC4, and = MC5. > >> Could > >>>>>> there be some reserved value in the RTP Header extension to = mean > >> "no > >>>>>> CaptureID is indicated"? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> CaptureID format - It looks like this document allows for a 2 = byte > >>>>>> capture ID to put in the RTP header and the SDES item. But the = CLUE > >> data > >>>>>> model says a captureID is of type "xs:ID" which is really a = text string. > >>>>>> There seems to be a mismatch here. Am I missing something? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mark > > ------=_NextPart_000_1E61_01D21E3E.45C5EB10 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 VX0+Zg46w0wCHdkgq/GV3EKlyg0AsX8LgooGlUMeuUNpe+sT0WBl3mXB97TUw7mnRLY1m/IAlyFv 4XO8LfQ1L03vfLBRAVft7xc9Okm6DbHrPxFx9VKpgIkSIUvIx/BK0zXBa/0arWW3tfimfY9t5KdJ Wqb68E8Nb0bD8S0Ve0O76TCR4dVE/HmVj6YrauGcUGfvB4yT+bOOCGlsOw3NoHW2G9PZJF9B9PvV cWzv9Jw3AlzGU2sQMbVD1ZiiRgkG47bvqvi/tg38vWEDMj1lzSpMp/FhC8YrSaGb4YwjM52w9MXM 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01D21F48.67734680" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Oct 2016 00:38:21.8933 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR10MB1399 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE02V.polycom.com Archived-At: Subject: [clue] Updated clarification for rtp-mapping ClientID X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2016 00:38:27 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01D21F48.67734680 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0080_01D21F48.67734680" ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01D21F48.67734680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Jonathan for the suggestion and clarifications. Here is my updated proposal for new text for section 5. This proposed text would replace the existing text in the section. =================== begin proposed change ===================== 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's attributes like the spatial information. This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than one original MC is composed into the MCC simultaneously. If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the MCC. If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this mechanism. If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST send the special value "-", a single dash character, as the captureID RTP header and SDES message. The single dash character indicates there is no applicable value for the MCC constituent CaptureID. The media consumer interprets this as meaning any previous captureID value in this RTP header no longer applies. The single dash character is not a legal captureID value, so there is no possibility of confusing it with an actual captureID. =================== end proposed change ===================== Mark ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01D21F48.67734680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Jonathan for the suggestion and clarifications. = Here is my updated proposal for new text for section 5. This proposed = text would replace the existing text in the section.

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= begin proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

5. MCC Constituent CaptureID = definition

For a MCC which can = represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is = represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a = mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to = address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and = SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the = consumer to use the original source MC’s attributes like the = spatial information.

 

This = mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the = captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the = MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than = one original MC is composed into the MCC = simultaneously.

 

If there = is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the = captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP = SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an = MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the = MCC.

 

If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC = then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs’ captureIDs = using this mechanism.

 

If the media = provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then = later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST = send the special value “-“, a single dash character, as the = captureID RTP header and SDES message. The single dash character = indicates there is no applicable value for the MCC constituent = CaptureID. The media consumer interprets this as meaning any previous = captureID value in this RTP header no longer applies. The single dash = character is not a legal captureID value, so there is no possibility of = confusing it with an actual captureID.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= end proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

Mark

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T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (public key: not available)" header.d=nteczone.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrtZvrn82K5H for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2016 21:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msh03.myshophosting.com (msh03.myshophosting.com [101.0.109.158]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 182A9127076 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2016 21:41:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nteczone.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Sr+k4S1R5M77giwJ/GxwjnRSagPumd8FvgENUrsj78E=; b=hUP+RV7VPcyxQh/3JCXJx8AjG2 ruStHFog9nD+4ssIBsAq/nc0VbDx+ugCwUFHzLrBLiE6d/0KLXJlAyVc29MYmuIUx7+m2Tux/UA5h qzmSSpmGcF9A7wEKNFTsLOPCAE3uDfKDsDYBHshydHiJNz13kls2TnXD+OYBuAEUyc0hdayYOq4J2 MlNQr9VAwr4rBkoPfBPqQwVA3mxSp/innpd8vV5/l+P6ImZCEl/KCDE9ziBqLVsVsINNTm5CatMoG k2ZY+G281Ep1vZWz6YfdABy6T4xTsht5zVoqFPDdWihlXMn85BaWamhf1wPD4uIRrKDicg7Kw49oT n+oq2qAg==; Received: from ppp118-209-3-252.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net ([118.209.3.252]:51242 helo=[192.168.1.22]) by msh03.myshophosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1bsMyV-004L68-2X for clue@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2016 15:41:35 +1100 To: clue@ietf.org References: From: Christian Groves Message-ID: <15cd42f8-3c4f-62fc-4563-fd3dcc232cdf@nteczone.com> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 15:41:29 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - msh03.myshophosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nteczone.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: msh03.myshophosting.com: authenticated_id: christian.groves@nteczone.com X-Authenticated-Sender: msh03.myshophosting.com: christian.groves@nteczone.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Updated clarification for rtp-mapping ClientID X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 04:41:40 -0000 Sounds OK. Regards, Christian On 6/10/2016 11:38 AM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > > Thanks Jonathan for the suggestion and clarifications. Here is my > updated proposal for new text for section 5. This proposed text would > replace the existing text in the section. > > =================== begin proposed change ===================== > > 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition > > For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to > know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given > time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the > constituent MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines > an RTP header extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of > the original MC, allowing the consumer to use the original source MC’s > attributes like the spatial information. > > This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with > the captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched > into the MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where > more than one original MC is composed into the MCC simultaneously. > > If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send > the captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a > RTCP SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends > within an MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just > switched into the MCC. > > If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media > provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs’ captureIDs using this mechanism. > > If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into > an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same > MCC, it MUST send the special value “-“, a single dash character, as > the captureID RTP header and SDES message. The single dash character > indicates there is no applicable value for the MCC constituent > CaptureID. The media consumer interprets this as meaning any previous > captureID value in this RTP header no longer applies. The single dash > character is not a legal captureID value, so there is no possibility > of confusing it with an actual captureID. > > =================== end proposed change ===================== > > Mark > > > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Fri Oct 7 10:07:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69696129687 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 10:07:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3rKgihLeJblg for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 10:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C899129693 for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 10:06:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.157.30] (port=59475 helo=glaroam2-160-163.wireless.gla.ac.uk) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1bsYbm-0007bO-3j; Fri, 07 Oct 2016 18:06:54 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 18:06:51 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 17:07:07 -0000 > On 23 Sep 2016, at 16:00, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 > This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. > It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. >=20 > I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the document = as a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent = discussion as raised questions. >=20 > Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of = scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, review = the discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your = review. I=E2=80=99ve read this version of the draft, and appreciate the updates = made in light of my earlier feedback. However, I do still have some = comments: - Section 3: rather than try to explain the topologies, it might be = clearer to just list them with reference to RFC 7667, stating that they = can be used, and only explain any CLUE-specifics.=20 - Section 4: =E2=80=9Cusing, the SDP description" - the comma is = incorrect, and makes it look like something is missing. Should it just = be removed? - Section 4: =E2=80=9C...placing them into RTP sessions using, the SDP = description. For example, main and slides video sources are separated = into separate RTP sessions based on the content attribute [RFC4796]" - = this is incorrect. The streams are placed into separate sessions by = running them on different transport layer flows, so they have disjoint = SSRC-space. Attributes in the sessions description, such as RFC 4796, = identify those separate RTP sessions; they don't separate them into = different RTP sessions. (The rest of the paragraph is okay) - Section 4, 3rd paragraph: the terms =E2=80=9Csession multiplexing" and = "SSRC multiplexing" are ill defined, and I strongly suggest they are not = used. I think you want to say that CLUE supports sending each RTP stream = in a separate RTP session, and also sending several RTP streams within a = single RTP session using the SDP BUNDLE extension, rather than it = supports =E2=80=9Csession multiplexing and SSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D. - Section 4.1: Same comment about =E2=80=9CSSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D as = above. - Section 4.1: The first paragraph confuses me. It gives an overview = =E2=80=9Cfor information only=E2=80=9D that =E2=80=9Ccan be used=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=94 but is very unclear on what I need to implement for = interoperability. It lists drafts that =E2=80=9Cprovide mechanisms=E2=80=9D= or =E2=80=9Cprovide the means=E2=80=9D but gives no guidance on what to = implement. - Section 5.1: Please align terminology with RFC 3550 - it=E2=80=99s an = =E2=80=9CSDES Item=E2=80=9D not an SDES message. - Section 5.1: =E2=80=9CThis SDES message MAY be sent in a compound RTCP = packet based on the application need=E2=80=9D - surely this needs to be = =E2=80=9CMUST be sent in a compound RTCP packet unless support for = Reduced-size RTCP has been negotiated as specified in RFC 5506=E2=80=9D. - Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent in = RTCP SDES or hdr ext)? - Section 9 gives security considerations for a large number of RTP = extensions. These are all reasonable. However, this draft doesn=E2=80=99t = mandate that these extensions are used, so I don=E2=80=99t understand = why they=E2=80=99re discussed here. --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ From nobody Fri Oct 7 13:07:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA071296FC for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 13:07:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id shAHWob1ZUIP for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 13:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C21DD1296FE for ; Fri, 7 Oct 2016 13:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.101]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id sbPGbq0CB8GkCsbQabr0Qv; Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:07:32 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id sbQZbE9XN80BXsbQZbDAh0; Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:07:32 +0000 To: Colin Perkins References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <48f7a848-9334-40b0-6a46-e916c244ec3b@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 16:07:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfN/Rt22+bh6XgZLIVxLOHL2UHs/hwqxkAlaG1xnJg0OVo5CWnDY8mKCt9GVXymnI9z5FJTaSbqK+5w22a2gEBV+Qi0szI6cyFY0CxC520VZyfLrMJgj+ +602WiXGYs7C/pA7jWhIi6KD9egTulimzjsGKN7tkEXKLVRmnsatytqSkaZ+0x2aaAaH6WqfGHQF3bqTyI1e5XerVSWXHGYZkKo= Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2016 20:07:34 -0000 Thanks Colin, This whole subject is outside my area of expertise, so I'm depending on others to sort this out. I'd like to hear from the authors. I believe Roni is on vacation until this weekend. (I scheduled the end of WGLC with that in mind.) Hopefully we will hear from him by Monday. I'm not sure where to go from here. I hope we won't need yet another WGLC, but that might turn out to be the case depending on the amount of work done after this. Thanks, Paul On 10/7/16 1:06 PM, Colin Perkins wrote: >> On 23 Sep 2016, at 16:00, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. >> It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. >> >> I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the document as a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent discussion as raised questions. >> >> Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, review the discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your review. > > I’ve read this version of the draft, and appreciate the updates made in light of my earlier feedback. However, I do still have some comments: > > - Section 3: rather than try to explain the topologies, it might be clearer to just list them with reference to RFC 7667, stating that they can be used, and only explain any CLUE-specifics. > > - Section 4: “using, the SDP description" - the comma is incorrect, and makes it look like something is missing. Should it just be removed? > > - Section 4: “...placing them into RTP sessions using, the SDP description. For example, main and slides video sources are separated into separate RTP sessions based on the content attribute [RFC4796]" - this is incorrect. The streams are placed into separate sessions by running them on different transport layer flows, so they have disjoint SSRC-space. Attributes in the sessions description, such as RFC 4796, identify those separate RTP sessions; they don't separate them into different RTP sessions. (The rest of the paragraph is okay) > > - Section 4, 3rd paragraph: the terms “session multiplexing" and "SSRC multiplexing" are ill defined, and I strongly suggest they are not used. I think you want to say that CLUE supports sending each RTP stream in a separate RTP session, and also sending several RTP streams within a single RTP session using the SDP BUNDLE extension, rather than it supports “session multiplexing and SSRC multiplexing”. > > - Section 4.1: Same comment about “SSRC multiplexing” as above. > > - Section 4.1: The first paragraph confuses me. It gives an overview “for information only” that “can be used” — but is very unclear on what I need to implement for interoperability. It lists drafts that “provide mechanisms” or “provide the means” but gives no guidance on what to implement. > > - Section 5.1: Please align terminology with RFC 3550 - it’s an “SDES Item” not an SDES message. > > - Section 5.1: “This SDES message MAY be sent in a compound RTCP packet based on the application need” - surely this needs to be “MUST be sent in a compound RTCP packet unless support for Reduced-size RTCP has been negotiated as specified in RFC 5506”. > > - Section 5: what’s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent in RTCP SDES or hdr ext)? > > - Section 9 gives security considerations for a large number of RTP extensions. These are all reasonable. However, this draft doesn’t mandate that these extensions are used, so I don’t understand why they’re discussed here. > > > From nobody Wed Oct 12 06:00:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE871294F7 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 06:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=plcm365.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NB0_yTd7c42F for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 06:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com [216.82.251.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5E99129415 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR10MB1401; H:DM5PR10MB1401.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: polycom.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03E1_01D22467.145DD1D0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Oct 2016 13:00:33.9373 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR10MB1401 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE01V.polycom.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 13:00:49 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_03E1_01D22467.145DD1D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I reviewed the document, the changes from -07 to -08 are ok with me. I sent a separate email for the topic "Updated clarification for rtp-mapping ClientID". I think this discussion about my proposed clarification still needs to be resolved. I haven't heard from Roni or Jonathan yet about this latest proposal. There is a minor problem in the formatting of the packet format diagrams in sections 5.1 and 5.2. The bit numbers don't line up right at the top of the diagrams. And the vertical bars separating fields are off by a space or two. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 11:01 AM > To: CLUE > Subject: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 > > This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. > It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. > > I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the document > as a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent > discussion as raised questions. > > Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of > scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, review > the discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your review. > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ------=_NextPart_000_03E1_01D22467.145DD1D0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 VX0+Zg46w0wCHdkgq/GV3EKlyg0AsX8LgooGlUMeuUNpe+sT0WBl3mXB97TUw7mnRLY1m/IAlyFv 4XO8LfQ1L03vfLBRAVft7xc9Okm6DbHrPxFx9VKpgIkSIUvIx/BK0zXBa/0arWW3tfimfY9t5KdJ 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hh08LIfuIYMA for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D903129422 for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:22:15 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-1f3ff700000009a9-ef-57fe8d656b36 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 8E.D4.02473.56D8EF75; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.110] (c-73-186-127-100.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.186.127.100]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id u9CJMCW0015758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:22:13 -0400 To: clue@ietf.org References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 15:22:12 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJvW+y/cYM0lY4v9py4zOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr4+637ewFd9grtr04xdrAOJmti5GTQ0LAROLP6VcsXYxcHEIC lxkl3j1dwQbhvGaSaF40kwWkSljAWmLFsxlANgeHiICgxMsrgiBhIQF7iXNbF4CVsAloScw5 9B/M5gWKty5YxQRiswioStxqbWUFsUUF0iS2r9vNDFEjKHFy5hOwek4BB4ktnQfAbGYBW4k7 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By now I *think* Roni should be back from vacation. There were some substantial comments. I request that the authors sort out what they want to do about those. I think we will need another revision. Thanks, Paul On 9/23/16 11:00 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. > It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. > > I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the document > as a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent > discussion as raised questions. > > Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of > scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, review > the discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your review. > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > From nobody Tue Oct 18 11:32:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379E01297C3 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id slvf7TgiT1NU for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AA271297C4 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id f193so10983096wmg.1 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=U9gM6UDXAexlIHsLs+S/zwMy4RGU6d7iRLZ2hKbVyhg=; b=jEUbeihcPnrKeaS+4ZwozGOsvVsBM3DeOA1SaIS5RWeUrczX/CpAhqukrSXcph6Iq+ x4J0RqI/2A886jJQM7TQxlijnYQw4P5zTybGhJNIFV2jVH1i5ywQu5y6s7Am3R3qHggT u124WcE+G9n8R5qkdSJOnv3dX3cnXJXw2oMDOYpCJO7rs74UVmML5HM5CQaYnc592y7R NH1WWTtaBaE8lzKJ5wRtttO9FYjSRO29VK2vN+DvDPUlH0nC5sqJsUhHJnRyEBHdCUNc MknReT2seHK8cY7Jjvqapu/lBZcZcWMmBjudlKOU20PIkVJpesbhWTzrzdF/zAP/nxOG 0T3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=U9gM6UDXAexlIHsLs+S/zwMy4RGU6d7iRLZ2hKbVyhg=; b=liyrkjYpsxeg+jR6OkHvvyBuIjrljYK7n8A2mEdtQ9ew8kKSmWlHZLb5a12LR1vbXA RlCnpaqlzE3rjgPrGXmH4VDZaWkHn5zopBR+eVQubajQ10aYdBmd49opROu6PijNm0J+ CLKRvCDErY/EqekboiPYDmzs6PP64OwFF5t33DuQveUkTHuZLThcHyED0TKoEh4lD6YW P7veThFwltVO3hu8QcFZr/hYOqxcewxYj+J7De4V05FtUEjIfPo+IuvjDQ7IrFhG1XGe mJIJqETQLYLq5hIuGj6Sms4JUzvh7LUOWhpQ/UG7a+Dop2H5npv9FUyMgFHTru/WJL4R 1C+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlcTUrm4NXQd+8eoMMA5dNJK5+g8NGO5A/W/FHwUHBM1xSvKi2wjfDIZYmtPt8tpg== X-Received: by 10.194.75.194 with SMTP id e2mr1279744wjw.7.1476815528798; Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-75-194.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.75.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d18sm786112wma.14.2016.10.18.11.32.07 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Oct 2016 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: References: <147672294327.4518.2259653429577996315.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <147672294327.4518.2259653429577996315.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 21:30:37 +0300 Message-ID: <0f8001d2296d$b91a5350$2b4ef9f0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQICAnI3t0cq4NOq3zhTbOpQWgeYGqBO1oPA Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: [clue] FW: NomCom 2016-2017 Call for Feedback X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 18:32:12 -0000 FYI -----Original Message----- From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of NomCom Chair 2016 Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 7:49 PM To: IETF Announcement List Cc: ietf@ietf.org Subject: NomCom 2016-2017 Call for Feedback The 2016-16 Nominating Committee has collected a list of willing = candidates for the positions open this cycle. You can see the list at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2016/feedback/ You may provide feedback using the web form there; it is secure. All web feedback goes into the datatracker using asymmetric encryption, = which is then decrypted by the NomCom members as they read it. Your = feedback can not be seen by the secretariat, the tools people, or any of = the management. Your feedback through the web form is not anonymous when shown to NomCom = members as you need an IETF login to provide it. If you want to give truly anonymous feedback, please contact one of the = NomCom members that you trust directly, and ask him/her to relay the = feedback anonymously to the NomCom. You can also submit feedback via email to nomcom-chair-2016@ietf.org and = I will enter it in the datatracker. One email per candidate, please. = Please indicate if I should share your identity with the full NomCom. We will also announce office hours in Seoul shortly. The positions to be filled and the desired expertise are found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2016/ Lucy Lynch Nomcom Chair 2016-17 nomcom-chair-2016@ietf.org llynch@civil-tongue.net From nobody Thu Oct 20 10:14:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A101D127058 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B5V6Mpu-FHMf for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-f181.google.com (mail-qt0-f181.google.com [209.85.216.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B32DB129600 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-f181.google.com with SMTP id m5so62981898qtb.3 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:14:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=QY4Fy6MB16wtWuWHh6/272hDkRH8O++nSNnpih1bJm0=; b=PmsqVbsbu4e8baEVjTRlec/m41nf4uGJOQH84XoouL03uLnzSjA11kGqtZwG4bz2GV kJNeUitCHI5fp63jEKEj8iJymugeNNkdKm/LRF31UjOuK9QHydgxa4Bpka2y4sbPqDaB s7QBSS4azoYMfaDkRdL9eh5C3b+yo3nFLosPvR2alc6114B6F0GG5z94EfsIEX5a5wqL mXluBHjItXjhE5j7x/u8QFI2aN4mLOkd1+EV5jM/G3onpR7qyVl7ub+JDkSoPkIWqW5D tO0DxwDMNiUEJp77p83Kd2ZIq7Vc+5OJHoNSulPvw8/i9qOwtcWhzvIZ8GDkK6f2uLiE RzoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=QY4Fy6MB16wtWuWHh6/272hDkRH8O++nSNnpih1bJm0=; b=ZO8qsufXCHg+80gLD+WHXkXWhcVF0HY6Mw290HQLlO+z1yjtRB8PMxPaZ+G2iP4L6N BGDtFULEwlPGMcMsTzQk4VcvxrTC/2lTHF00Nfz2W2REOnJ7NZyTvnJQ+EEWEclXDTb1 PftYYVKC6EooSVfPjKGcjFisOoo/9thVbFksg9nQCcpTMwegwPBKctpHEgcnfW39AqkP 35meA2eU3mpX0rfg3Bud/00wwH/ZQSMOTwU5xiaLVy+vl2abVliIBWaYWYZ0KLqEtFUC XadmvVmdJKiMNcpjA1WtFq/kwW2LGRH6dPaGNyrZcbpAsuMa17sL6fL8LaAJHQJffclm vQLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rl/Gn4E2kmOuUd1ALe0Q60VkdyKD6ps8DR9DNVGRHAgP0KPveyz6YV+O4ZPjXA7sQ== X-Received: by 10.28.168.86 with SMTP id r83mr6928215wme.16.1476983629631; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-75-194.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.75.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id io3sm59718577wjb.24.2016.10.20.10.13.47 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:13:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Christian Groves'" , References: <147230268098.2155.6202995334293084354.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9af2a971-4679-e6ba-935b-a4cb43aaa9b6@alum.mit.edu> <1a124082-ea3f-635f-73e4-eea2c9f6608a@alum.mit.edu> <93d02e05-d6fc-64ec-15a2-4ec4c03d7b1a@alum.mit.edu> <008e01d20c57$7c6e7ef0$754b7cd0$@gmail.com> <01d801d20ea3$c56f0090$504d01b0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:12:15 +0300 Message-ID: <10ef01d22af5$1c0290d0$5407b270$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQMYHaANnjuq/rZKm6ZaHSPzayEY6wHx78RcArPHpCUDGWijPgH31K2kAZ95DcIBktflDgE8dI+6Ae3DdkMBfA0xCwIoGJ1TAVJ+hc0CSq9fgZ1rB8fQ Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:14:52 -0000 Hi Christian, This goes back to the point that Jonathan made about the need for capture id. The major reason is to be able to use the spatial information of the media capture currently switched by the MCC, in the composed case we are not sure if the spatial information is relevant at all Roni > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Groves > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 9:01 AM > To: clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > > Hello Mark, > > What about the switched composed case where the endpoint switches > between composed captures? We should probably explicitly mention this as > its discussed in the framework. > > Regards, Christian > > > On 27/09/2016 7:56 AM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > > Hi Jonathan and Roni, > > > > I thought some more about the MCC composed case, where there are two > or more MCs in the MCC. I think trying to use this CaptureID RTP Header and > SDES item has problems for that case, so maybe it is better to just drop it. I > agree with Jonathan that "I'm not sure how useful the constituent capture ID > is for composed MCCs". > > > > The problem I see is about associating the original contributing CaptureIDs > to SSRC/CSRC values. When using the RTP header extension, we are > associating one contributing original CaptureID with the SSRC of the MCC > stream. This is different than associating the captureID to a CSRC that might > appear in the same RTP packet. This works well for the switched case (as > opposed to composed) because it is direct and doesn't rely on any CSRC. > Some topologies might not even be using CSRCs. > > > > If we also use this SDES item to map CaptureIDs to CSRCs that appear > within an MCC packet, that is a different sort of mapping. Those CSRC values > would be associated with the original constituent MCs, not the MCC. So we > would be using this captureID mapping mechanism to map it to two different > types of things. That doesn't seem right to me. It gets more complicated if > the composed case happens to include only one CSRC at some point, then > what do you map the CaptureID to? The CSRC value, or the SSRC value, or > both? > > > > So anyway, now I'm proposing this mechanism can be used only for the > switched MCC case. This is closer to how the rtp mapping document is > already written. > > > > I still will have some small suggestions for clarifying text in the document. I > can send that later, after the group agrees whether or not to support the > composed case with this, or just the pure switched case. > > > > Mark > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 11:32 AM > >> To: Duckworth, Mark > >> Cc: Roni Even ; Paul Kyzivat > >> ; clue@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > >> > >> Hi, Mark - > >> > >> These seem like good changes to me. Sorry, I'd lost track of our > >> previous discussion. > >> > >> I'm not sure how useful the constituent capture ID is for composed > >> MCCs, as opposed to switched ones, since the geometry information is > >> only going to be meaningful for switched MCCs. But it's still useful > >> informationally, and putting it in the CSRCs' SDESes is the right thing to > do. > >> > >> If you could suggest text that'd be great. > >> > >>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Duckworth, Mark > >> wrote: > >>> Hi Roni, > >>> > >>> I agree the parts about mapping ssrc/csrc to m-lines and CLUE > >>> encodings is described in other RTP documents and CLUE signaling > >>> document. So I am > >> okay > >>> with that part. > >>> > >>> However, I think some information about the meaning and usage of the > >> Capture > >>> ID SDES item and RTP Header is missing. > >>> > >>> 1. Capture ID SDES and RTP Header is intended to be used only for > >>> constituent captures within an MCC. > >>> 1.a - I previously suggested changing the name to "MCC > >>> Constituent Capture ID", and Jonathan agreed. I still think this is a good > idea. > >>> > >>> 2. An MCC can include more than 1 constituent capture at a time. The > >> Capture > >>> ID SDES item is intended to be used for any number of simultaneous > >>> constituent captures. This means it can be used for the composed > >>> case as well as the pure switching case. The document implies (to > >>> me) it can be > >> used > >>> only for the switching case. > >>> > >>> 3. For the composed case, the RTP Header extension is not used, > >>> because > >> that > >>> won't map the capture ID to CSRC values. Instead, for the composed > >>> case, only the RTCP SDES mechanism can be used to map the Capture ID > >>> to > >> values > >>> that appear in the MCC packets' CSRC list. This allows the media > >>> consumer > >> to > >>> identify the original media captures that are composed into the MCC. > >>> > >>> I think Jonathan agreed to all this on the list > >>> > >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/clue/qFfSNIzFuNtqqlGbxx1W5dXLik > >> 4 > >>> If you agree, I could suggest specific changes to the document to > >>> make this clear. > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Roni Even [mailto:ron.even.tlv@gmail.com] > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:19 PM > >>>> To: Duckworth, Mark ; 'Paul Kyzivat' > >>>> > >>>> Cc: 'Jonathan Lennox' ; clue@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: RE: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > >>>> > >>>> Hi Mark, > >>>> The reason we took the information out because it is described in > >>>> other documents like the RTP topologies for SSRC/CSRC or the CLUE > >>>> signaling document for the SDP mapping. We reference these > >>>> documents and did > >> not > >>>> see > >>>> any need to repeat information > >>>> > >>>> Roni > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Duckworth, Mark [mailto:Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com] > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:07 AM > >>>>> To: Roni Even; 'Paul Kyzivat' > >>>>> Cc: 'Jonathan Lennox'; clue@ietf.org > >>>>> Subject: RE: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm also concerned we are losing some important information in > >>>>> this > >>> recent > >>>>> change. I found the old section 5 "Application to CLUE Media > >>>> Requirements" > >>>>> particularly useful. > >>>>> > >>>>> For me, the most important information in the RTP mapping > document > >>>>> is how to associate all these different things with each other: > >>>>> - SSRC/CSRC > >>>>> - SDP m-line (which is a CLUE encoding) > >>>>> - Clue capture ID for directly configured media captures (MC or > >>>>> MCC) > >>>>> - Clue capture ID for constituents of MCC (for both switched and > >>> composed > >>>>> cases) > >>>>> > >>>>> I went back to old email here: > >>>>> > >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/clue/qFfSNIzFuNtqqlGbxx1W5dXLik > >> 4 > >>>>> I'm not sure anymore if the RTP mapping document clearly describes > >>>>> the different cases discussed in that email. I think it should, > >>>>> and I > >>> thought > >>>> it > >>>>> did, but I'm not so sure anymore. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think this part is not at all clear (from the referenced email): > >>>>> > >>>>>> Mechanism 2: Use RTP/RTCP CaptureID SDES item, conveyed in RTCP > >> and > >>>>> RTP > >>>>> header extension as described in clue-rtp-mapping section 6. This > >>>>> gives > >>> a > >>>>> direct mapping between an ssrc value and a captureID. This > >>>>> mechanism > >> is > >>>>> intended to be used only for Clue media captures that are > >>>>> constituents > >>> of > >>>> an > >>>>> MCC. This could apply to an MCC that is switched or composed. > >>>>>> For the case of a "switching mixer", the ssrc value in RTP > >>>>>> packets > >>> stays > >>>>> the same over time for a given m line and CLUE encoding. This is > >>>>> true > >>> for > >>>>> single MC encoded directly, and also for an MCC. For an MCC, the > >>>>> ssrc > >>>> value > >>>>> associated with the MCC captureID stays constant. But the > >>>>> value(s) in > >>> RTP > >>>>> CSRC field change as switching occurs. So the MID SDES item maps > >>>>> to a constant ssrc value even when switching occurs. The > >>>>> CaptureID SDES > >> item > >>>>> (conveyed in RTCP) maps the MCC constituent capture IDs to the > >>>>> values > >>>> that > >>>>> appear in RTP CSRC field. These mappings don't change, but the > >>>>> media provider should send the mapping information whenever an > >>>>> individual > >> MC > >>>> is > >>>>> switched into an MCC for the first time. The CaptureID RTP header > >>>> extension > >>>>> does not apply for this case, it can be conveyed only in RTCP. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think it would help if we took some information from that old > >>>>> email > >>> and > >>>>> added it into RTP mapping doc. Or can anybody show me how it > >>>>> really is clear already, or if the old email is actually mistaken? > >>>>> > >>>>> Mark > >>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roni Even > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 2:08 PM > >>>>>> To: 'Paul Kyzivat' ; clue@ietf.org > >>>>>> Cc: 'Jonathan Lennox' > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [clue] I-D Action: > >>>>>> draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Paul, > >>>>>> The issue of static and dynamic mapping was reflecting the > >>>>>> discussion between Jonathan Lennox and me. It was based on the > >>>>>> different > >>>> supported > >>>>>> topologies and after talking with Colin Perkins it was clear that > >>>>>> it > >>> was > >>>>>> confusing terminology and there was need to have it in this > >>>>>> document > >>>> and > >>>>>> just reference the AVTcore topologies supported by CLUE. > >>>>>> We tried to make the document simpler and this is the result > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Roni > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul > >>>>>>> Kyzivat > >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:11 PM > >>>>>>> To: clue@ietf.org > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [clue] I-D Action: > >>>>>>> draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08.txt > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Roni & Jonathan, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 9/2/16 12:32 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks for the context. In my first reading of the diffs it > >>> appeared > >>>>>>>> to me that significant functionality had been dropped. But I > >>>>>>>> will > >>>> read > >>>>>>>> it again. Maybe I just misunderstood. > >>>>>>> OK, I read it again. Now I can be more specific about what is > >>>> bothering > >>>>>> me. > >>>>>>> (Note that I'm discussing changes between -07 and -08. So it is > >>>>> necessary > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>> have both in front of you (or the diff) to make sense of these > >>>>> comments.) > >>>>>>> * Section 3: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The change from -07 removes the discussion of there being two > >>>>>>> major RTP/RTCP behaviors. Does that mean we have lost one or > >>>>>>> both of > >>>> these? > >>>>>>> * Section 4: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Here again two distinct behaviors were previously broken out, > >>>>>>> and > >>> that > >>>>> has > >>>>>>> now been removed. I thought those alternatives were important. > >> Have > >>>>> we > >>>>>>> lost one of those? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> And then we have also lost: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> In either of the above two cases, the MCU/Mixer may create an > >>>>>>> advertisement with a virtual room capture scene (i.e., with > >>>> Multiple > >>>>>>> Content Captures). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> isAlternately the MCU/Mixer can relay all the capture scenes > >>> from > >>>>> all > >>>>>>> advertisements to all consumers. This means that the > >>>> advertisement > >>>>>>> will include multiple capture scenes, each representing a > >>> separate > >>>>>>> TelePresence room with its own coordinate system. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> While this will remain true even if it is not mentioned, I > >>>>>>> thought > >>> it > >>>>> was > >>>>>> an > >>>>>>> important conceptual difference that was worth highlighting, > >>>>>>> since > >>> one > >>>>> or > >>>>>>> the other may not occur to some readers. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * Sections 4.3 & 4.4 (in -7): > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> These two sections (Static Mapping and Dynamic Mapping) were > >>>>>>> elaborations of the stuff I mentioned above. So my same > >>>>>>> questions > >>>> apply. > >>>>>>> This distinction was a *big deal*, with some participants > >>> implementing > >>>>> one > >>>>>>> and some the other in their video conferencing products. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * Sections 4.2 and 5 (in -7): > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I guess you all decided we no longer needed to carry the history > >>>>>>> of > >>>> how > >>>>> we > >>>>>>> got where we ended up. It disturbs me to lose this history, but > >>>>>>> I > >>>>>> understand it > >>>>>>> can be distracting. So I reluctantly accept this. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>> Paul > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> clue mailing list > >>>>>>> clue@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> clue mailing list > >>>>>> clue@ietf.org > >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > clue mailing list > > clue@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Thu Oct 20 10:33:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA179129669 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t-jWgn_DZkIv for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 472A412955D for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id l131so89593295lfl.2 for ; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=L2Wi0+6k5QYjNWC+cdFXKL30M5Wkr0Bny9nzrN+pAfw=; b=UA0iCxf0Zyku6fctjrcgYjNE4Na5ee+hbMzLJcvuJ9CLni1V3iz56MZjoYRcTpG32M UA7lACYyMDhXQ5wzH0XrgtN4/ABoQ0I8DHuR+rUUjepDpqz0yBsoWKdLtHFNLQE0KeZC Ff0BdTLVq6Lnhs4YaRjZLvE5zImuILhH93+iDRMaQfhe1h5cEgN8jJ77kZxwbhcYLk6l XEA08xkjhyTYrw+yvOMSNOHi2hAr42dSjWXRbZawK7XE8LgKTCyrSJh4XJB/ChO5RO6o 6P3XISQHJ/PPOJHQBSyIMBjOYSQCi7yopEHHSZhZFi4ZO0rEJ/pW2/C+WQQe5BmQLX1B EOgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=L2Wi0+6k5QYjNWC+cdFXKL30M5Wkr0Bny9nzrN+pAfw=; b=BSxn5C+Kk48T/0BOH2VSiy5FEXwqHJ+bAzoth0OP46jcC2jf3mer706lvG5P2epKkE RVnMFnF67FViuqLQpbzgcdtaDZ3L00RYcXSWklMrW7cigzlO5rIYj4cVzuDs97EMEkf8 vZM7xlR3YvZq86buk4zD/ymQvMcffW93MpkmeJ2gVMs02kR8X71gyFRs75BDBt6LUJI3 1guGytZMoB55wRa6f/FG4jauXsvGdRwhzUx4s3LenobR7VD/Z0i7Pe/K0fYq6Wb8u8gQ 26JDjnWfqIh+yHhP5YXErXYiNhobk6WwMABfHkvouNmTrUPE8iRGCbE4TTvc+VxmIBdq 1CNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RnxMeYqFDkfufSW+3L+imV7FtZOD+QG7ZalC9KZIonAV7DgKPYtex+e0gDwltcj2g== X-Received: by 10.28.228.5 with SMTP id b5mr1077360wmh.101.1476984777844; Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-75-194.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.75.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a2sm80637606wjn.10.2016.10.20.10.32.55 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Oct 2016 10:32:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Duckworth, Mark'" , "'Jonathan Lennox'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:31:24 +0300 Message-ID: <10f001d22af7$c8ae71d0$5a0b5570$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_10F1_01D22B10.EDFC6D20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQITl+zY/stSXEfGJ5Hg48Fi1m55iqAuv5rQ Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] Updated clarification for rtp-mapping ClientID X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2016 17:33:03 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_10F1_01D22B10.EDFC6D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I will update the document with this text Thanks Roni From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Duckworth, Mark Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 3:38 AM To: Jonathan Lennox; 'clue@ietf.org' Subject: [clue] Updated clarification for rtp-mapping ClientID Thanks Jonathan for the suggestion and clarifications. Here is my updated proposal for new text for section 5. This proposed text would replace the existing text in the section. =================== begin proposed change ===================== 5. MCC Constituent CaptureID definition For a MCC which can represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the consumer to use the original source MC's attributes like the spatial information. This mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than one original MC is composed into the MCC simultaneously. If there is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the MCC. If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs' captureIDs using this mechanism. If the media provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST send the special value "-", a single dash character, as the captureID RTP header and SDES message. The single dash character indicates there is no applicable value for the MCC constituent CaptureID. The media consumer interprets this as meaning any previous captureID value in this RTP header no longer applies. The single dash character is not a legal captureID value, so there is no possibility of confusing it with an actual captureID. =================== end proposed change ===================== Mark ------=_NextPart_000_10F1_01D22B10.EDFC6D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I will update the = document with this text

Thanks

Roni

 

From:= = clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Duckworth, = Mark
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2016 3:38 AM
To: = Jonathan Lennox; 'clue@ietf.org'
Subject: [clue] Updated = clarification for rtp-mapping = ClientID

 

Thanks = Jonathan for the suggestion and clarifications. Here is my updated = proposal for new text for section 5. This proposed text would replace = the existing text in the section.

 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= begin proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

5. MCC Constituent CaptureID = definition

For a MCC which can = represent multiple switched MCs there is a need to know which MC is = represented in the current RTP stream at any given time. This requires a = mapping from the MCC RTP stream to the constituent MC. In order to = address this mapping this document defines an RTP header extension and = SDES item that includes the captureID of the original MC, allowing the = consumer to use the original source MC’s attributes like the = spatial information.

 

This = mapping temporarily associates the SSRC of the MCC stream with the = captureID of the single original MC that is currently switched into the = MCC. This mapping cannot be used for the composed case where more than = one original MC is composed into the MCC = simultaneously.

 

If there = is only one MC in the MCC then the media provider MUST send the = captureID of the current constituent MC in the RTP header and as a RTCP = SDES message. When the media provider switches the MC it sends within an = MCC, it MUST send the captureID value for the MC just switched into the = MCC.

 

If there are more than one MC composed into the MCC = then the media provider MUST NOT send any of the MCs’ captureIDs = using this mechanism.

 

If the media = provider sends the captureID of a single MC switched into an MCC, then = later sends a composed stream of multiple MCs in the same MCC, it MUST = send the special value “-“, a single dash character, as the = captureID RTP header and SDES message. The single dash character = indicates there is no applicable value for the MCC constituent = CaptureID. The media consumer interprets this as meaning any previous = captureID value in this RTP header no longer applies. The single dash = character is not a legal captureID value, so there is no possibility of = confusing it with an actual captureID.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= end proposed change = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

Mark

------=_NextPart_000_10F1_01D22B10.EDFC6D20-- From nobody Fri Oct 21 00:54:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04001294F4 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMDLUC5yuBwX for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22c.google.com (mail-lf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79B8912946B for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id l131so125820415lfl.2 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=xPm8ovz8MnPaWaSWhnw++0OP3ADFAcIx7zzhJkRkHWE=; b=nziAYEHnpwcNlBp2FG0IElFsK9TtOnUHg6KAZfxAbU8Wgo9fkQXhcBbazC/a9x6kc/ aIy1jh4K0O9ziw/LGMj4K7g3LABMrfd1i8LOSNVIM6S9VgBSXLy/mqgrXuI7Scm9MjkS T4AQosb/+9zHjRp5bBAKE6qN1Yuk+Q/mBUXTh1r/4vOXcDBce/K7hAg6yQHJIfsUhHyW lBvTCBz3L/+58rvi9rV8mwiYxAd2OsbhHRVKbQIm3QcFwN6jjVI0PiPLnsJ6mYBL0IpH NTnGvRoJw3iCZfn4UXDaz5zs8oYPM/olOuY+gR10qZgNr4YQ6uKc0W3vJPlh3a4EzG/L 4SMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=xPm8ovz8MnPaWaSWhnw++0OP3ADFAcIx7zzhJkRkHWE=; b=d8mVXHCBi0lqNEvzsdmZyb0P7G7Cyg6OfTjR8MZBaAz19i+inWv//UZ0HSsFyuAGK3 tGN9kihn3O3ZvptEwQyRkw7d5YDxWDJZGQIGJ2EUB/8TtWp4zhBwKdu0FdIqovc1Df8C gRVdsS/Rwh6Os5QqlIFLWgcQkQEQXuU8HLWWfSo3RnPEgqOmgLjoIhbnUoikwUGTIWpT 118nVZomtXVP5z657qqqrR1+9jdQ40YwF3SKW2cAQyE/PFON/iTVCR2t/tMe958ujd/3 cV7FzTpoObGTKy/UL0dmBplg3y3HiNJPGc7Rv2QJNvwepKaoK/YVvitt/STAQ228//k7 8rWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlTEpi4CIPJJ8sy2YlyHu4+taJL0ac5Do2yHsWagb59URDtNNTbYAIObxeNq1wYMg== X-Received: by 10.28.49.85 with SMTP id x82mr8881499wmx.129.1477036454927; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-75-194.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.75.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j202sm2730389wmd.0.2016.10.21.00.54.13 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Oct 2016 00:54:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Colin Perkins'" , "'Paul Kyzivat'" References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> In-Reply-To: <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 10:52:41 +0300 Message-ID: <113a01d22b70$1a894160$4f9bc420$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQDqJY0cDsyHPRTyNpKss1QoQT1yfALYBfOaomvLiAA= Content-Language: he Archived-At: Cc: 'CLUE' Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:54:22 -0000 Hi Colin, Thanks for the review, see inline Roni > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Colin Perkins > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 8:07 PM > To: Paul Kyzivat > Cc: CLUE > Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 >=20 > > On 23 Sep 2016, at 16:00, Paul Kyzivat = wrote: > > > > This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. > > It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. > > > > I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the = document as > a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent = discussion as > raised questions. > > > > Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of > scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, = review the > discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your = review. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve read this version of the draft, and appreciate the = updates made in light > of my earlier feedback. However, I do still have some comments: >=20 > - Section 3: rather than try to explain the topologies, it might be = clearer to > just list them with reference to RFC 7667, stating that they can be = used, and > only explain any CLUE-specifics. [Roni Even] The section does not explain just provide short description = with some text on CLUE, I will delete the last sentence on the media = switching mixer and add some text on CLUE. As for SFM we felt that we = need some text since the RFC7667 was not clear enough. >=20 > - Section 4: =E2=80=9Cusing, the SDP description" - the comma is = incorrect, and makes > it look like something is missing. Should it just be removed? [Roni Even] yes, thanks >=20 > - Section 4: =E2=80=9C...placing them into RTP sessions using, the SDP = description. > For example, main and slides video sources are separated into separate = RTP > sessions based on the content attribute [RFC4796]" - this is = incorrect. The > streams are placed into separate sessions by running them on different > transport layer flows, so they have disjoint SSRC-space. Attributes in = the > sessions description, such as RFC 4796, identify those separate RTP = sessions; > they don't separate them into different RTP sessions. (The rest of the > paragraph is okay) [Roni Even] You are right, this is not an example it is more of a way to = describe what is in the stream as further information. Will fix it. BTW: I went back and saw that this text and the "using, the SDP" were = there even on the individual draft = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-even-clue-rtp-mapping-03#section-4=20 >=20 > - Section 4, 3rd paragraph: the terms =E2=80=9Csession multiplexing" = and "SSRC > multiplexing" are ill defined, and I strongly suggest they are not = used. I think > you want to say that CLUE supports sending each RTP stream in a = separate > RTP session, and also sending several RTP streams within a single RTP = session > using the SDP BUNDLE extension, rather than it supports = =E2=80=9Csession > multiplexing and SSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D. [Roni Even] OK, will change the text as you suggested >=20 > - Section 4.1: Same comment about =E2=80=9CSSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D = as above. >=20 > - Section 4.1: The first paragraph confuses me. It gives an overview = =E2=80=9Cfor > information only=E2=80=9D that =E2=80=9Ccan be used=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 = but is very unclear on what I need to > implement for interoperability. It lists drafts that =E2=80=9Cprovide = mechanisms=E2=80=9D or > =E2=80=9Cprovide the means=E2=80=9D but gives no guidance on what to = implement. [Roni Even] I am not sure here, the usage is specified in the clue = signaling document and I also think that the paragraph about RFC6236 = (image attribute) is not correct. I will also consult with Jonathan = about the need for this section. >=20 > - Section 5.1: Please align terminology with RFC 3550 - it=E2=80=99s = an =E2=80=9CSDES Item=E2=80=9D > not an SDES message. >=20 [Roni Even] OK > - Section 5.1: =E2=80=9CThis SDES message MAY be sent in a compound = RTCP packet > based on the application need=E2=80=9D - surely this needs to be = =E2=80=9CMUST be sent in a > compound RTCP packet unless support for Reduced-size RTCP has been > negotiated as specified in RFC 5506=E2=80=9D. [Roni Even] OK >=20 > - Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent = in RTCP SDES or > hdr ext)? [Roni Even] It is the CLUE me4dia capture as stated in 5.1 >=20 > - Section 9 gives security considerations for a large number of RTP > extensions. These are all reasonable. However, this draft = doesn=E2=80=99t mandate > that these extensions are used, so I don=E2=80=99t understand why = they=E2=80=99re discussed > here. >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Colin Perkins > https://csperkins.org/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Fri Oct 21 07:31:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA4B129633 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:31:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOf1KTTPbdpF for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D3DA1293DF for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.247.112] (port=53597 helo=mangole.dcs.gla.ac.uk) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1bxarC-0006Rz-NQ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:31:39 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <113a01d22b70$1a894160$4f9bc420$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:31:35 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3ACA0894-B483-4D4E-835C-E68B424221C3@csperkins.org> References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> <113a01d22b70$1a894160$4f9bc420$@gmail.com> To: Roni Even X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:31:43 -0000 Hi Roni, Thanks for the response - some comments inline. Colin > On 21 Oct 2016, at 08:52, Roni Even wrote: >=20 > Hi Colin, > Thanks for the review, see inline > Roni >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Colin Perkins >> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 8:07 PM >> To: Paul Kyzivat >> Cc: CLUE >> Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 >>=20 >>> On 23 Sep 2016, at 16:00, Paul Kyzivat = wrote: >>>=20 >>> This is another WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08. >>> It will end two weeks from today - Friday Oct 7, 2016. >>>=20 >>> I'm calling this because substantial changes were made to the = document as >> a result of conversations at the Berlin meeting, and subsequent = discussion as >> raised questions. >>>=20 >>> Please comment one way or another so that we can gauge the level of >> scrutiny that this version has received. If you haven't already, = review the >> discussion that has already taken place on -08 to motivate your = review. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99ve read this version of the draft, and appreciate the = updates made in light >> of my earlier feedback. However, I do still have some comments: >>=20 >> - Section 3: rather than try to explain the topologies, it might be = clearer to >> just list them with reference to RFC 7667, stating that they can be = used, and >> only explain any CLUE-specifics. > [Roni Even] The section does not explain just provide short = description with some text on CLUE, I will delete the last sentence on = the media switching mixer and add some text on CLUE. It shouldn=E2=80=99t try to describe the topologies, though, since = that=E2=80=99s the intent of RFC 7667. This draft should just say what = topologies are used, and list anything CLUE-specific about the use of = those topologies.=20 > As for SFM we felt that we need some text since the RFC7667 was not = clear enough. In a CLUE-specific way, or generally? If the latter, it belongs in = another draft. >> - Section 4: =E2=80=9Cusing, the SDP description" - the comma is = incorrect, and makes >> it look like something is missing. Should it just be removed? > [Roni Even] yes, thanks >>=20 >> - Section 4: =E2=80=9C...placing them into RTP sessions using, the = SDP description. >> For example, main and slides video sources are separated into = separate RTP >> sessions based on the content attribute [RFC4796]" - this is = incorrect. The >> streams are placed into separate sessions by running them on = different >> transport layer flows, so they have disjoint SSRC-space. Attributes = in the >> sessions description, such as RFC 4796, identify those separate RTP = sessions; >> they don't separate them into different RTP sessions. (The rest of = the >> paragraph is okay) > [Roni Even] You are right, this is not an example it is more of a way = to describe what is in the stream as further information. Will fix it. Thanks. > BTW: I went back and saw that this text and the "using, the SDP" were = there even on the individual draft = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-even-clue-rtp-mapping-03#section-4=20 >>=20 >> - Section 4, 3rd paragraph: the terms =E2=80=9Csession multiplexing" = and "SSRC >> multiplexing" are ill defined, and I strongly suggest they are not = used. I think >> you want to say that CLUE supports sending each RTP stream in a = separate >> RTP session, and also sending several RTP streams within a single RTP = session >> using the SDP BUNDLE extension, rather than it supports =E2=80=9Csessio= n >> multiplexing and SSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D. > [Roni Even] OK, will change the text as you suggested Thanks. >> - Section 4.1: Same comment about =E2=80=9CSSRC multiplexing=E2=80=9D = as above. >>=20 >> - Section 4.1: The first paragraph confuses me. It gives an overview = =E2=80=9Cfor >> information only=E2=80=9D that =E2=80=9Ccan be used=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 = but is very unclear on what I need to >> implement for interoperability. It lists drafts that =E2=80=9Cprovide = mechanisms=E2=80=9D or >> =E2=80=9Cprovide the means=E2=80=9D but gives no guidance on what to = implement. > [Roni Even] I am not sure here, the usage is specified in the clue = signaling document and I also think that the paragraph about RFC6236 = (image attribute) is not correct. I will also consult with Jonathan = about the need for this section. Okay. >> - Section 5.1: Please align terminology with RFC 3550 - it=E2=80=99s = an =E2=80=9CSDES Item=E2=80=9D >> not an SDES message. >>=20 > [Roni Even] OK >=20 >> - Section 5.1: =E2=80=9CThis SDES message MAY be sent in a compound = RTCP packet >> based on the application need=E2=80=9D - surely this needs to be = =E2=80=9CMUST be sent in a >> compound RTCP packet unless support for Reduced-size RTCP has been >> negotiated as specified in RFC 5506=E2=80=9D. > [Roni Even] OK >>=20 >> - Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent = in RTCP SDES or >> hdr ext)? > [Roni Even] It is the CLUE me4dia capture as stated in 5.1 But Section 5.1 doesn=E2=80=99t give the syntax of the CaptureId. >> - Section 9 gives security considerations for a large number of RTP >> extensions. These are all reasonable. However, this draft doesn=E2=80=99= t mandate >> that these extensions are used, so I don=E2=80=99t understand why = they=E2=80=99re discussed >> here. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Colin Perkins >> https://csperkins.org/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >=20 --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ From nobody Fri Oct 21 11:17:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC72129673 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2016 11:17:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR10MB1402; H:DM5PR10MB1401.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: polycom.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1CE3_01D22BA5.CC481540" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Oct 2016 18:17:06.5065 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR10MB1402 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE01V.polycom.com Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 18:17:12 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_1CE3_01D22BA5.CC481540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From Colin and Roni's discussion: > >> - Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent= in RTCP > SDES or > >> hdr ext)? > > [Roni Even] It is the CLUE me4dia capture as stated in 5.1 >=20 > But Section 5.1 doesn=E2=80=99t give the syntax of the CaptureId. Should it say something like the CaptureId is a string in UTF-8 format? I = think that is what the data model says, regarding the XML representation. 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13:24:22 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Mark Duckworth Thread-Topic: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 Thread-Index: AQHSFatNUFg4o6lJe0O7awfD1Jph4qCdTw2AgBVlz4CAAG9zgIAAKUFQgABrmoA= Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 18:24:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> <113a01d22b70$1a894160$4f9bc420$@gmail.com> <3ACA0894-B483-4D4E-835C-E68B424221C3@csperkins.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [100.35.230.88] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF54BFC49E5E4D458511AF41551D252Dvidyocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-10-21_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 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Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62724129446 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 03:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.247.112] (port=64738 helo=mangole.dcs.gla.ac.uk) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1bycuU-0005u8-MM; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:55:20 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_87911658-80BB-49BD-95AE-82906E59BDE9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:55:14 +0100 Message-Id: References: <043fe213-b3da-3177-043f-5e01cf453891@alum.mit.edu> <75BE7B9A-DDA9-48DC-9531-305C7A32B096@csperkins.org> <113a01d22b70$1a894160$4f9bc420$@gmail.com> <3ACA0894-B483-4D4E-835C-E68B424221C3@csperkins.org> To: Jonathan Lennox X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: "clue@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-08 X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 10:55:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_87911658-80BB-49BD-95AE-82906E59BDE9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 21 Oct 2016, at 19:24, Jonathan Lennox wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 21, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Duckworth, Mark = > wrote: >>=20 >>> =46rom Colin and Roni's discussion: >>=20 >>>>> - Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the syntax of the CaptureId (whether = sent in RTCP >>> SDES or >>>>> hdr ext)? >>>> [Roni Even] It is the CLUE me4dia capture as stated in 5.1 >>>=20 >>> But Section 5.1 doesn=E2=80=99t give the syntax of the CaptureId. >>=20 >> Should it say something like the CaptureId is a string in UTF-8 = format? I think that is what the data model says, regarding the XML = representation. >=20 > In my next revision I=E2=80=99ve added text=20 >=20 > This CaptureID is a variable-length UTF-8 string corresponding = either to a CaptureID negotiated in the CLUE protocol, or the single = character "-". >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve also added a reference to the data model schema document, = where it=E2=80=99s defined. Makes sense. --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ --Apple-Mail=_87911658-80BB-49BD-95AE-82906E59BDE9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On 21 Oct 2016, at 19:24, Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com> = wrote:


On Oct 21, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Duckworth, Mark <Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com> wrote:

=46rom Colin and Roni's = discussion:

- Section 5: what=E2=80=99s the = syntax of the CaptureId (whether sent in RTCP
SDES or
hdr ext)?
[Roni Even] It is the CLUE me4dia capture as stated in 5.1

But Section 5.1 doesn=E2=80=99t give the syntax of the CaptureId.

Should it say something like the CaptureId is a string in UTF-8 format? = I think that is what the data model says, regarding the XML = representation.

In my next revision I=E2=80=99ve added text 

   This CaptureID is a variable-length UTF-8 string corresponding = either to a CaptureID negotiated in the CLUE protocol, or the single = character "-".

I=E2=80=99ve also added a reference to the data model = schema document, where it=E2=80=99s defined.

Makes sense.

-- 
Colin Perkins
https://csperkins.org/



= --Apple-Mail=_87911658-80BB-49BD-95AE-82906E59BDE9-- From nobody Mon Oct 24 11:36:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietf.org Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E850C1296A2; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:35:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.36.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <147733415894.15467.16341329870555808258.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:35:58 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: [clue] I-D Action: draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 18:35:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the ControLling mUltiple streams for tElepresence of the IETF. Title : Mapping RTP streams to CLUE Media Captures Authors : Roni Even Jonathan Lennox Filename : draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2016-10-24 Abstract: This document describes how the Real Time transport Protocol (RTP) is used in the context of the CLUE protocol. It also describes the mechanisms and recommended practice for mapping RTP media streams defined in SDP to CLUE Media Captures. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 24 12:04:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C98129962 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t_630Z3q2UlF for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 12:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CBC41299BF for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 12:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.106]) by resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id ykXQbupliTaLwykXcbnIS0; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:04:12 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id ykXbbyUGg6WYsykXcbtTLh; Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:04:12 +0000 To: CLUE References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 15:04:11 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfJ+AZxCEjMI1W6C7/v2oX1+CFHDbKcrJ7ry0qLndmfEAI3z5bpXWpjqHsLN9yvFqZOhTNL73DVWDJajcAHe8w0z3BqkvKh5d2gdXSnoVrK0GduJZjX2n jDxB2gWil+Jy39R7TNnFt40LUCe4tTkfX0wZ/B3bsiXafiEomtHDt317HZetMkmV4H2OVkpd6w13NQxA8yg5Y+B+6eLdHQtLbHk= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [clue] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2016 19:04:15 -0000 Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off to the IESG now. I don't think yet another WGLC is called for. If anybody has further objections to this draft please speak now. Thanks, Paul On 10/24/16 2:35 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A new version (-09) has been submitted for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt > > > The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping/ > > Diff from previous version: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09 > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > IETF Secretariat. > > From nobody Tue Oct 25 03:08:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F6D1294F3 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 03:07:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4wnjIW3cinFE for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 03:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from balrog.mythic-beasts.com (balrog.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:82:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5BC01294A1 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 03:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.247.112] (port=60248 helo=mangole.dcs.gla.ac.uk) by balrog.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1byye0-00075s-1e; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:07:49 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:07:40 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] New Version Notification - draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:07:56 -0000 > On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 > Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. >=20 > The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to = WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off to = the IESG now. I don=E2=80=99t think yet another WGLC is called for. You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that = they=E2=80=99re been addressed in this version.=20 Colin > If anybody has further objections to this draft please speak now. >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > On 10/24/16 2:35 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>=20 >> A new version (-09) has been submitted for = draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping: >> = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker page for this Internet-Draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping/ >>=20 >> Diff from previous version: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> IETF Secretariat. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ From nobody Tue Oct 25 07:12:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6881295C3 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:12:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKafcEfmoDNi for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:160]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C5A91294EE for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 07:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-17v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.241]) by resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id z2RLbbxhvucHZz2SpbPfzK; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:12:27 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-po-17v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id z2SobNRnppp4qz2Sob9GEu; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:12:27 +0000 To: Colin Perkins References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:12:26 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfK1PJ+wtYRxvcNgN9TezgDSoz+A4Wxigo1BodTxfOu8obD/Skh3rsr/yNtw7kEfX8/X4JlVrIBaeWTlmAa25KHXx+NS7C3UVSS9Rv25OuuYIm0Ti3A7z bgD/P0CRARnuHMq+8AIxeokYkJZHFsMXHgpcscegVv8RJKl69jQFt6PpVS0B5zR78UJfq98rc9Nl2tE1kcreGzUeOhrEIJsPJH8= Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:12:39 -0000 On 10/25/16 6:07 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >> On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. >> >> The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off to the IESG now. I don’t think yet another WGLC is called for. > > You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that they’re been addressed in this version. Yes. I'm not clear who those people were, since the issues came up at the last meeting, and I wasn't present. Will everyone who had concerns please review the -09 version and report back here that you are satisfied with the result? Thanks, Paul From nobody Tue Oct 25 18:12:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172401299CB for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 18:12:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=plcm365.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5NitPMc2pjAy for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 18:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta12.messagelabs.com [216.82.251.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A97712943B for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR10MB1401; H:DM5PR10MB1401.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: polycom.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_23E2_01D22F04.7B2199E0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Oct 2016 01:12:26.3099 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d0880d3f-e6d1-4a41-9e81-b8fbcddf7b6c X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR10MB1401 X-OriginatorOrg: polycom.com X-OrganizationHeadersPreserved: SACWPEXEDGE01V.polycom.com Archived-At: Cc: CLUE Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 01:12:31 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_23E2_01D22F04.7B2199E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The changes in the -09 version look good to me. Thanks for the updates. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:12 AM > To: Colin Perkins > Cc: CLUE > Subject: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in = draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt >=20 > On 10/25/16 6:07 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: > >> On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat = wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. > >> > >> The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to = WGLC > comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off to the = IESG > now. I don=E2=80=99t think yet another WGLC is called for. > > > > You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that > they=E2=80=99re been addressed in this version. >=20 > Yes. I'm not clear who those people were, since the issues came up at > the last meeting, and I wasn't present. >=20 > Will everyone who had concerns please review the -09 version and = report > back here that you are satisfied with the result? >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue ------=_NextPart_000_23E2_01D22F04.7B2199E0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D86F0124281 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:53:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.431, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycDchDapszLi for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu [18.7.68.15]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5EF1293F5 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 1207440f-1f3ff700000009a9-eb-581366652f31 Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (OUTGOING-ALUM.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.33]) by alum-mailsec-scanner-4.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 8E.B6.02473.56663185; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.110] (c-73-186-127-100.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.186.127.100]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id u9SErOO5013439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:53:25 -0400 To: clue@ietf.org References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:53:24 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixO6iqJueJhxh8PadgMX+U5eZHRg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVcWWNfcEGzoops+cwNzBuYu9i5OSQEDCRmH9mKnMXIxeHkMBl 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List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:53:31 -0000 Just a reminder - I'm not requesting another WGLC. I'm going to move forward on this, by publishing my writeup and submitting the document. If you have a problem with this please get to me ASAP. Thanks, Paul On 10/25/16 10:12 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 10/25/16 6:07 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >>> On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. >>> >>> The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to >>> WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off >>> to the IESG now. I don’t think yet another WGLC is called for. >> >> You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that >> they’re been addressed in this version. > > Yes. I'm not clear who those people were, since the issues came up at > the last meeting, and I wasn't present. > > Will everyone who had concerns please review the -09 version and report > back here that you are satisfied with the result? > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue From nobody Fri Oct 28 07:56:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F230129670 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:56:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIlQGuZ_9Hq8 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C72AB1293EE for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 07:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.247.112] (port=49753 helo=mangole.dcs.gla.ac.uk) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1c08Zx-0005T0-LU; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:56:22 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:56:18 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:56:25 -0000 And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who = commented that the changes address their concerns.=20 Colin > On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:53, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 > Just a reminder - I'm not requesting another WGLC. I'm going to move = forward on this, by publishing my writeup and submitting the document. = If you have a problem with this please get to me ASAP. >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > On 10/25/16 10:12 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> On 10/25/16 6:07 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >>>> On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. >>>>=20 >>>> The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to >>>> WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this = off >>>> to the IESG now. I don=E2=80=99t think yet another WGLC is called = for. >>>=20 >>> You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that >>> they=E2=80=99re been addressed in this version. >>=20 >> Yes. I'm not clear who those people were, since the issues came up at >> the last meeting, and I wasn't present. >>=20 >> Will everyone who had concerns please review the -09 version and = report >> back here that you are satisfied with the result? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Paul >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >=20 > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ From nobody Fri Oct 28 09:58:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D903E129579 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:58:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1NqM1Y-hNwA for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CF6B129555 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 0ATzcC2hzff8q0AUFcqNYs; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:58:35 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 0AUDcRVhSIwOJ0AUEcec9o; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:58:35 +0000 To: Colin Perkins , Christian Groves References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <7d5da6f6-cc79-d9c4-48ab-2d39c289470a@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:58:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDR6CPRp2yE6tc7LkAD3q+O2sVGq1tevY5eEmTP5NkpIJir3Ed7ZIINR2/CBzYiPRMlwehJpeq5zL2A3t3EyURo6jzmfwyph1qF81aZlcsxNLKlQmywH X0hGmsGlhcgk/Jphd1yV0aD6tB17KWVKAo/iyZ3bpfYev3iT15OxTEy7MXUDn1oZS0Nc2Cvsd/ZjCUpi7Wn772ScqPsMbzuYjl/RxAdZ4nxX3Iextpf5rTMW U9+TvXCSpWQDoIkT/l3unA== Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 16:58:40 -0000 On 10/28/16 10:56 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: > And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who commented that the changes address their concerns. I checked the email discussion history. After -08 the non-author people who commented were me, Mark, and Christian. Since -09 Mark has confirmed that he is satisfied with it. I am also satisfied. So if we hear from Christian then I think we will be good in this regard. (I presume the authors are ok with this.) Thanks, Paul > Colin > > > >> On 28 Oct 2016, at 15:53, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> Just a reminder - I'm not requesting another WGLC. I'm going to move forward on this, by publishing my writeup and submitting the document. If you have a problem with this please get to me ASAP. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> On 10/25/16 10:12 AM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 10/25/16 6:07 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >>>>> On 24 Oct 2016, at 20:04, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for this update. It looks good to me. >>>>> >>>>> The question is: what is now the next step? This is in response to >>>>> WGLC comments. Absent any objections, I am inclined to hand this off >>>>> to the IESG now. I don’t think yet another WGLC is called for. >>>> >>>> You do need to give time for those who had comments to check that >>>> they’re been addressed in this version. >>> >>> Yes. I'm not clear who those people were, since the issues came up at >>> the last meeting, and I wasn't present. >>> >>> Will everyone who had concerns please review the -09 version and report >>> back here that you are satisfied with the result? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Paul >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> clue mailing list >>> clue@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue >> >> _______________________________________________ >> clue mailing list >> clue@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue > > > From nobody Fri Oct 28 10:03:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 428B61295D5 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:03:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMq7LI-wOiA9 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from haggis.mythic-beasts.com (haggis.mythic-beasts.com [IPv6:2a00:1098:0:86:1000:0:2:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA693129579 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.209.157.26] (port=4310 helo=glaroam2-181-21.wireless.gla.ac.uk) by haggis.mythic-beasts.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1c0AYl-00015h-FC; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:03:15 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Colin Perkins In-Reply-To: <7d5da6f6-cc79-d9c4-48ab-2d39c289470a@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:03:02 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> <7d5da6f6-cc79-d9c4-48ab-2d39c289470a@alum.mit.edu> To: Paul Kyzivat X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-BlackCat-Spam-Score: -28 X-Mythic-Debug: Threshold = On = Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:03:21 -0000 > On 28 Oct 2016, at 17:58, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >=20 > On 10/28/16 10:56 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >> And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who = commented that the changes address their concerns. >=20 > I checked the email discussion history. After -08 the non-author = people who commented were me, Mark, and Christian. >=20 > Since -09 Mark has confirmed that he is satisfied with it. I am also = satisfied. So if we hear from Christian then I think we will be good in = this regard. (I presume the authors are ok with this.) I also sent extensive comments on -08 on 7 October, and have yet to have = chance to review whether they were addressed in -09. Why this rush to publish, without giving the working group chance to = review? You should be issuing a new working group last call, since there = were substantive technical comments on the last version.=20 --=20 Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/ From nobody Fri Oct 28 10:50:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26A7E1294C7 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:50:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HNfiKoVFn_we for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:50:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C760129458 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 10:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.113]) by resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 0BGzcAHeA2Nhq0BIlc6m9u; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:50:47 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.110] ([73.186.127.100]) by resomta-ch2-17v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id 0BIkcGJisQ5Rz0BIkcadaF; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:50:47 +0000 References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> <7d5da6f6-cc79-d9c4-48ab-2d39c289470a@alum.mit.edu> From: Paul Kyzivat To: clue@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 13:50:45 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfA6IxuaqDAtY4ZC3zehN0QJChUkBFRinOpGSjNAGHbzp6JhMbCu5CH1EJ+a6sr5/nVvjvHaUb7H6CWldVcAJdFKpqvkuKZrYfBvh88nlxAMkdpNv5ejl imNpOMvr24yEHHq6Z4nrco5C8K2hkDUkXnN11EmG7YivmTlYpMGbsK2N9vAV9fcN0PNDFSIc4By1dY/TWikCFf7DRFZyHGoEpAb+MLE/noP22phAT8uAf/aI x5xjOCgs8LPStMUvMXf73YzNFPXxsxwpe38UEd4E5MMQG6eX7PfZO5BG4d7HWttm Archived-At: Subject: [clue] WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:50:49 -0000 This announced the start of another WGLC on the rtp-mapping document, this time draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt. This will be a short one - one week. It will end Friday, November 4. I especially want to hear from the people who had issues with -08: Mark Duckworth, Christian Groves, and Colin Perkins. But not just them. Please, everyone who worked on CLUE please respond. This will impact the level of support for the document that I can report in the shepherd writeup. See below for more on why I'm calling for wglc *again*. Thanks, Paul On 10/28/16 1:03 PM, Colin Perkins wrote: > >> On 28 Oct 2016, at 17:58, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> >> On 10/28/16 10:56 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: >>> And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who commented that the changes address their concerns. >> >> I checked the email discussion history. After -08 the non-author people who commented were me, Mark, and Christian. >> >> Since -09 Mark has confirmed that he is satisfied with it. I am also satisfied. So if we hear from Christian then I think we will be good in this regard. (I presume the authors are ok with this.) > > I also sent extensive comments on -08 on 7 October, and have yet to have chance to review whether they were addressed in -09. > > Why this rush to publish, without giving the working group chance to review? You should be issuing a new working group last call, since there were substantive technical comments on the last version. My impression is that people are tired of this and want it over. And there seem to be only a small set of participants at this time. But, since you have asked, I'm hereby doing so. Thanks, Paul From nobody Fri Oct 28 14:03:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: clue@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FD6129693 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:03:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.903 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.903 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=plcm365.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7ZrTN_KuBee for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2016 14:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta8.messagelabs.com [216.82.243.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20BEF1295A4 for ; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, for the record, the changes in the -09 version still look good to me. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kyzivat [mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu] > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 1:51 PM > To: clue@ietf.org > Cc: Colin Perkins ; Christian Groves > ; Duckworth, Mark > > Subject: WGLC for draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt > > This announced the start of another WGLC on the rtp-mapping document, > this time draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt. > > This will be a short one - one week. It will end Friday, November 4. > > I especially want to hear from the people who had issues with -08: Mark > Duckworth, Christian Groves, and Colin Perkins. But not just them. > Please, everyone who worked on CLUE please respond. This will impact the > level of support for the document that I can report in the shepherd writeup. > > See below for more on why I'm calling for wglc *again*. > > Thanks, > Paul > > On 10/28/16 1:03 PM, Colin Perkins wrote: > > > >> On 28 Oct 2016, at 17:58, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > >> > >> On 10/28/16 10:56 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: > >>> And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who > commented that the changes address their concerns. > >> > >> I checked the email discussion history. After -08 the non-author people > who commented were me, Mark, and Christian. > >> > >> Since -09 Mark has confirmed that he is satisfied with it. I am also satisfied. > So if we hear from Christian then I think we will be good in this regard. (I > presume the authors are ok with this.) > > > > I also sent extensive comments on -08 on 7 October, and have yet to have > chance to review whether they were addressed in -09. > > > > Why this rush to publish, without giving the working group chance to > review? You should be issuing a new working group last call, since there were > substantive technical comments on the last version. > > My impression is that people are tired of this and want it over. And > there seem to be only a small set of participants at this time. > > But, since you have asked, I'm hereby doing so. > > Thanks, > Paul > > ------=_NextPart_000_034F_01D2313D.35CED840 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIUEjCCBQ0w ggL1oAMCAQICEBrVY02YeFKcQ+zVfznU/o4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwGTEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUG9s eWNvbS1Sb290Q0EwHhcNMTMxMTA0MTg1NzA2WhcNMjMxMTA0MTkwNjU4WjAZMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5Q b2x5Y29tLVJvb3RDQTCCAiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggIPADCCAgoCggIBAMzj+6krY3OF7mtq +O2/yC5heUML7DFZn2cp0Mkp/vos7TDrysGdPDdEIK+zYvZQZs6TrGzPh0XXnEpMcHE7V4nD5zN3 VX0+Zg46w0wCHdkgq/GV3EKlyg0AsX8LgooGlUMeuUNpe+sT0WBl3mXB97TUw7mnRLY1m/IAlyFv 4XO8LfQ1L03vfLBRAVft7xc9Okm6DbHrPxFx9VKpgIkSIUvIx/BK0zXBa/0arWW3tfimfY9t5KdJ Wqb68E8Nb0bD8S0Ve0O76TCR4dVE/HmVj6YrauGcUGfvB4yT+bOOCGlsOw3NoHW2G9PZJF9B9PvV 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[79.178.162.211]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id gk6sm21523645wjc.21.2016.10.29.15.44.06 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 29 Oct 2016 15:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Colin Perkins'" , "'Paul Kyzivat'" References: <147733415926.15467.2006430670314279492.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <618bed9d-5983-96a5-62b4-0c1577e04dcd@alum.mit.edu> <7d5da6f6-cc79-d9c4-48ab-2d39c289470a@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 01:42:07 +0300 Message-ID: <00d601d23235$aea80c70$0bf82550$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHxQj6WRwwH+p5W6HT5Si1pTU2UWAKsdCe6AXzHRAUB4cNn5QIhsDMWAcbo/PwCxa6cPAGGL0iFoA/rAXA= Content-Language: he Archived-At: Cc: clue@ietf.org Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping-09.txt X-BeenThere: clue@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: CLUE - ControLling mUltiple streams for TElepresence List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 22:44:12 -0000 Hi Colin, Jonathan and I tried to address all your comments. Thanks for the good review Roni > -----Original Message----- > From: clue [mailto:clue-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Colin Perkins > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:03 PM > To: Paul Kyzivat > Cc: clue@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [clue] PLEASE CHECK CHANGES in draft-ietf-clue-rtp-mapping- > 09.txt > > > > On 28 Oct 2016, at 17:58, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > > > > On 10/28/16 10:56 AM, Colin Perkins wrote: > >> And as I said before, you need to wait for confirmation from that who > commented that the changes address their concerns. > > > > I checked the email discussion history. After -08 the non-author people > who commented were me, Mark, and Christian. > > > > Since -09 Mark has confirmed that he is satisfied with it. I am also satisfied. > So if we hear from Christian then I think we will be good in this regard. (I > presume the authors are ok with this.) > > I also sent extensive comments on -08 on 7 October, and have yet to have > chance to review whether they were addressed in -09. > > Why this rush to publish, without giving the working group chance to review? > You should be issuing a new working group last call, since there were > substantive technical comments on the last version. > > -- > Colin Perkins > https://csperkins.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue