From nobody Tue Jan 12 11:49:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietf.org Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E261A8782; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:47:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160112194712.2906.63570.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:47:12 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:49:22 -0800 Cc: rsalz@akamai.com, curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs@ietf.org, stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie Subject: [Curdle] curdle - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:47:12 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Rich Salz, a Chair of the curdle working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: CURves, Deprecating and a Little more Encryption Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Rich Salz Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: saag tls acme ipsecme Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jan 12 11:58:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B56B1A87F1; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:58:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FU_ENDS_2_WRDS=0.255, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TDkoBQsMedvp; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:58:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB95C1A87ED; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 11:58:48 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799c6d000007d66-99-56955ae93531 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FA.D4.32102.9EA55965; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:58:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 14:58:47 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: "curdle@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption Thread-Index: AdFNc6BKA7QqyhDWQwqHeDdW5x3T6g== Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:58:46 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409eusaamb107erics_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgleLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonRPdl1NQwg3V/9C1m9mxgtti6cBaz A5PHkiU/mQIYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgydv4/ylrQs4O5Yt0q7QbGj8uYuxg5OSQETCSOH7nE CmGLSVy4t56ti5GLQ0jgCKPE7DkXmUASQgLLGSU6Oz1AbDYBI4m2Q/3sILaIgLrEiUM7gJo5 OJgFTCU6u0pAwsIC0hIHdh5mgyhRkHjeOYEVwtaT+P11DiOIzSKgKrFg1T2wOK+Ar0Tf3Zlg qxiBbvh+ag2YzSwgLnHryXwmiNtEJB5ePM0GYYtKvHz8D+pmJYlJS8+xgtzMLNDNKHF1NUQD r4CgxMmZT1gmMArPQjJrFrK6WUjqIIryJSYdfckGYetILNj9CcrWlli28DUzjH3mwGMmTHEd ic2XdkLNUZRo65wNtWwpo8Syo89YZ4EDSUfi2XZXmJop3Q/ZYXqXtk1jgyhRlOi6UwbRuoxR 4mvXSVaYmo9vO9iQ9S5gFFrFyFFaXJCTm25kuIkRmCaOSbA57mDc2+t5iFGAg1GJh/eD8ZQw IdbEsuLK3EOMKkCtjzasvsAoxZKXn5eqJMLLHTo1TIg3JbGyKrUoP76oNCe1+BCjNAeLkjhv okxjmJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoGxrvdGyi7TsJ4JjRs4tjy/5sn21fjbqpsiF45HXTMW 3Zeh5Zflnf4+/MiHN/8sOh/tuFxZtFVj1r+qeQ/uBvhNWc+45cIxk3Vszw64b9mbmNt/Vpbv +PTiWk4d1vecpQZmP7dWTJXRfd2lpPf7zmKHwMLCsud3H5mnmzpyN0+xm31bxLPnwKsKJZbi jERDLeai4kQAKbiEAhsDAAA= Archived-At: Cc: "curdle-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:58:51 -0000 --_005_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409eusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409eusaamb107erics_" --_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409eusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the year with a call for adopt= ion of the following drafts. Please indicate whether you support or not the= adoption of these drafts by January 19. If adoption of the curves and EdDSA seems quite complete, another part of t= he WG milestones concerns deprecation and recommendations for cryptographic= algorithm. Feel free to share by January 19 which protocols you would like= to see addressed (PKIX, DNS, ...) or submit a draft by January 26. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519-02 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-ssh-curves-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-newcurves-01 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-eddsa-04 Daniel and Rich [Ericsson] DANIEL MIGAULT Researcher Research Ericsson 8500 Boulevard Decarie H4P 2N2 Montreal, Canada Phone +1 514 345 7900 46628 Mobile +1 514 452 2160 daniel.migault@ericsson.com www.ericsson.com [http://www.ericsson.com/current_campaign] Legal entity: Ericsson Canada Inc., registered office in Montreal. This Com= munication is Confidential. We only send and receive email on the basis of = the terms set out at www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer --_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409eusaamb107erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the = year with a call for adoption of the following drafts. Please indicate whet= her you support or not the adoption of these drafts by January 19.  

 

If adoption of the curves and EdDSA seems quite c= omplete, another part of the WG milestones concerns deprecation and recomme= ndations for cryptographic algorithm. Feel free to share by January 19 whic= h protocols you would like to see addressed (PKIX, DNS, ...) or submit a draft by January 26.

 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519-02

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-ssh-curves= -00

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-0= 3

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-n= ewcurves-01

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-eddsa= -04

 Daniel and Rich

 

 

 

=

DANIEL MIGAULT
Researcher
Research


Ericsson
8500 Boulevard Decarie
H4P 2N2 Montreal, Canada
Phone +1 514 345 7900 46628
Mobile +1 514 452 2160
daniel.migault@ericsson.com
www.ericsson.com



3D"http://www.ericsson.com/current_campaign"

 

Legal entity: Ericsson Canad= a Inc., registered office in Montreal. This Communication is Confidential. = We only send and receive email on the basis of the terms set out at www.ericsson.com/email_disclaimer

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X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5AE1A8892; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:27:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A_W5YGlqlPFx; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:27:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from chase.mycre.ws (chase.mycre.ws [70.89.251.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7422A1A888F; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:27:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by chase.mycre.ws (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 830BA12C11F5; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:26:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 15:26:59 -0500 From: Robert Edmonds To: Daniel Migault Message-ID: <20160112202659.GA30806@mycre.ws> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= , "curdle@ietf.org" , "curdle-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:27:13 -0000 Daniel Migault wrote: > Hi, > > We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the year with a call for adoption of the following drafts. Please indicate whether you support or not the adoption of these drafts by January 19. > > > > If adoption of the curves and EdDSA seems quite complete, another part of the WG milestones concerns deprecation and recommendations for cryptographic algorithm. Feel free to share by January 19 which protocols you would like to see addressed (PKIX, DNS, ...) or submit a draft by January 26. Hi, I am one of the co-authors for these two drafts: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00 I support adoption of these two documents by the working group, and can commit to reviewing them. (Well, at least the DNS protocol parts.) By the way, as far as implementation status goes, I know of one DNS implementation that has started working on Ed25519 support: http://blog.powerdns.com/2015/12/24/technical-preview-releases-of-authoritative-server-recursor-and-dnsdist/ "Experimental ed25519 signing support based on draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03." -- Robert Edmonds From nobody Tue Jan 12 12:36:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C6A1A889C; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:36:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cSjXCe14_aCM; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C9F81A8898; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 12:36:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.rfc1925.org (calcifer.labs.nic.cz [217.31.192.138]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB7C3180EC2; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 21:36:34 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1452630994; bh=4fVm+TuKcWpgRK8S/X9I77KX8l3yiiifk7MyxHSkvNA=; h=Date:From:To; b=kxIWQbQcGnE9uNGcxreGI++BM3o2yWeFMQVrvhPUkl8Kgbl8t/LiasDzUtsL3fXZN dyIzDutvbgFkef9gNPgEgHexQhmoXhQeSygOPBNfSTvuuHpQjo9GNdHifpXug+/Pu1 wIFCVvFvaXJDGfsVNUHn88So1qSWzAEGgTc3TR5c= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 21:36:34 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= To: Robert Edmonds Message-ID: <2037118053.11835.1452630994835.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <20160112202659.GA30806@mycre.ws> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112202659.GA30806@mycre.ws> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [217.31.192.138] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1178 (ZimbraWebClient - FF43 (Win)/8.6.0_GA_1178) Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption Thread-Index: 0pgLVk5488XL8tyf2y8L3+yFioke9g== X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= , Daniel Migault , curdle-chairs@ietf.org, curdle@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:36:38 -0000 +1 from me as the second co-author on my drafts. We will probably submit u= pdated drafts before January 26 anyway, the update is slowly finding its wa= y to the top of my TODO list. Cheers, Ondrej -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow -------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ -------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Edmonds" > To: "Daniel Migault" > Cc: "Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" , curdle@ietf.org, curdle-ch= airs@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 9:26:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption > Daniel Migault wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the year with a call for ad= option >> of the following drafts. Please indicate whether you support or not the >> adoption of these drafts by January 19. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> If adoption of the curves and EdDSA seems quite complete, another part o= f the WG >> milestones concerns deprecation and recommendations for cryptographic >> algorithm. Feel free to share by January 19 which protocols you would li= ke to >> see addressed (PKIX, DNS, ...) or submit a draft by January 26. >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I am one of the co-authors for these two drafts: >=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00 >=20 > I support adoption of these two documents by the working group, and can > commit to reviewing them. (Well, at least the DNS protocol parts.) >=20 > By the way, as far as implementation status goes, I know of one > DNS implementation that has started working on Ed25519 support: >=20 > http://blog.powerdns.com/2015/12/24/technical-preview-releases-of-auth= oritative-server-recursor-and-dnsdist/ >=20 > "Experimental ed25519 signing support based on > draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03." >=20 > -- > Robert Edmonds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Curdle mailing list > Curdle@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle From nobody Tue Jan 12 13:44:59 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3DA1A8A52; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:44:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TwEIKg_Etz9s; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from welho-filter4.welho.com (welho-filter4.welho.com [83.102.41.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039A01A8A3E; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by welho-filter4.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2452637; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:44:53 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at pp.htv.fi Received: from welho-smtp3.welho.com ([IPv6:::ffff:83.102.41.86]) by localhost (welho-filter4.welho.com [::ffff:83.102.41.26]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lYznS2MTiN2u; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:44:53 +0200 (EET) Received: from LK-Perkele-V2 (87-92-35-116.bb.dnainternet.fi [87.92.35.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by welho-smtp3.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19619230D; Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:44:53 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:44:50 +0200 From: Ilari Liusvaara To: Daniel Migault Message-ID: <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Sender: ilariliusvaara@welho.com Archived-At: Cc: "curdle@ietf.org" , "curdle-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 21:44:57 -0000 On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 07:58:46PM +0000, Daniel Migault wrote: > Hi, > > We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the year with a call for adoption of the following drafts. Please indicate whether you support or not the adoption of these drafts by January 19. > > > > If adoption of the curves and EdDSA seems quite complete, another part of the WG milestones concerns deprecation and recommendations for cryptographic algorithm. Feel free to share by January 19 which protocols you would like to see addressed (PKIX, DNS, ...) or submit a draft by January 26. > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519-02 Support. (Some obsolete refs, maybe also merge Ed448 if it makes out fast enough). > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-ssh-curves-00 Support. (looks like one paragraph assumes keys are 32 octets, where those might also be 56). > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 Support. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00 Why is this separate from Ed25519 draft? Due to CFRG draft stuff? Expected to merge with Ed25519 draft later if CFRG-EDDSA makes out? Anyway: I think this should be done one way or another. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-newcurves-01 I don't think mixing ECDH and signature keys is a good idea. However, this approach would be good for ECDH keys, which I do have heard requests for. That is, drop PH and add SHOULD for using the ECDH algorithm. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-eddsa-04 Support. -Ilari From nobody Wed Jan 13 01:17:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC43B1ACCFF; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:17:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZuoimG46yTIH; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEE231ACD17; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 01:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.rfc1925.org (calcifer.labs.nic.cz [217.31.192.138]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5919B18148D; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:17:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1452676620; bh=HiUYUUYq1baUJcdCDT/9ZgTI2z3HEJPC/OYNYEbePZc=; h=Date:From:To; b=tZ3nUTMHVuAUA8P64sYWLZarNbS0PAFF5iCBAuQHGHvAy1OZm/Vh2F+rZFSQhuO0l KdYJprcMp+dtfe5bMGtpFyx+zjHXJUb0kTnP2xHAKRGUXjnJ2ywA2Gs9gdG+EZKfVh OqUoCF1isb2LboWpudWKKTj2Z3tkbPwZnD++cvQg= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:17:00 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= To: Ilari Liusvaara Message-ID: <374469207.12050.1452676620340.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [217.31.192.138] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1178 (ZimbraWebClient - FF43 (Linux)/8.6.0_GA_1178) Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption Thread-Index: Jh7LVls5NKS89C/0VsfuOrF2Ppuw8A== X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: Daniel Migault , curdle-chairs , curdle@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 09:17:09 -0000 Hi Ilari, >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >=20 > Support. >=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed448-00 >=20 > Why is this separate from Ed25519 draft? The benefit of Ed448 for DNSSEC is doubtful, thus we wanted to separate the= two drafts so we can drop Ed448 if the DNS folks come to consensus that it= 's not needed at all. Also we thought that adding Ed25519 to DNSSEC won't raise any objections so= it might be just faster to split it into separate document so we can fast = forward this into the RFC. As opposed to Ed448 where we might have a lengt= hy discussion. > Due to CFRG draft stuff? >=20 > Expected to merge with Ed25519 draft later if CFRG-EDDSA makes > out? We expect to merge if there's a strong support for Ed448 in DNSSEC. > Anyway: I think this should be done one way or another. I am fine with merging if it won't stall Ed25519 progress. Cheers, -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow -------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ -------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 13 06:38:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791471B2E53 for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:38:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UiHVEVU8IEUn for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:38:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mmextmx1.mcr.colo.comodoca.net (mmextmx1.mcr.colo.comodoca.net [IPv6:2a02:1788:402:c00::c0a8:9cd5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A6431B2E4C for ; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 06:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 12137 invoked by uid 1004); 13 Jan 2016 14:38:40 -0000 Received: from ian.brad.office.comodo.net (HELO ian.brad.office.comodo.net) (192.168.0.202) by mmextmx1.mcr.colo.comodoca.net (qpsmtpd/0.84) with ESMTP; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:38:40 +0000 Received: (qmail 24134 invoked by uid 1000); 13 Jan 2016 14:38:40 -0000 Received: from and0004.comodo.net (HELO [192.168.0.58]) (192.168.0.58) (smtp-auth username rob, mechanism plain) by ian.brad.office.comodo.net (qpsmtpd/0.40) with (AES128-SHA encrypted) ESMTPSA; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:38:40 +0000 To: Daniel Migault , "curdle@ietf.org" References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> From: Rob Stradling Message-ID: <5696616F.40005@comodo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:38:39 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "curdle-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 14:38:46 -0000 On 12/01/16 19:58, Daniel Migault wrote: > Hi, > > We wish you a happy new year 2016, and start the year with a call for > adoption of the following drafts. Please indicate whether you support or > not the adoption of these drafts by January 19. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-newcurves-01 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-pkix-eddsa-04 I support adoption of these two drafts. ISTM that it might make sense to combine them into one document; or, for simplicity's sake, it might make sense to only standardize one of the two approaches [1]. But let's adopt, then discuss. [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pkix/current/msg33401.html -- Rob Stradling Senior Research & Development Scientist COMODO - Creating Trust Online From nobody Wed Jan 13 07:40:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678B61A90DC; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:40:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxG8irgW0wz1; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0732.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D94CB1A900B; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:40:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLUPR05CA0065.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.20.35) by BN3PR0501MB1380.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.160.117.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.361.13; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:39:45 +0000 Received: from BL2FFO11FD027.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c09::145) by BLUPR05CA0065.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:855::35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.365.19 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:39:45 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.19) smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.19 as permitted sender) Received: from p-emfe01b-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.239.19) by BL2FFO11FD027.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.173.161.106) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.355.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:39:45 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by p-emfe01b-sac.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:39:43 -0800 Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (eng-mail01.juniper.net [172.17.28.114]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id u0DFdgD44762; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:39:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mdb@juniper.net) Received: from eng-mail01.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eng-mail01.juniper.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B827F1141B; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 07:39:41 -0800 (PST) To: Curdle Chairs In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Comments: In-reply-to: Daniel Migault message dated "Tue, 12 Jan 2016 19:58:46 +0000." 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BN3PR0501MB1380; 5:/ZUQPGMswERODA8cz1YSCGvjECib51ZgfEmoB2dwwveCkOQmvPoN01FqKSovBB+LcLIW9i/grTX5ugS/1zXK41cUFimOwyg3wiGR5p9WW+2seAeJx3hHrOUpuDXgBc71dZ5dt1uOMS0auD2CD+L6zw==; 24:iNk4TmVU+V2OLrVlY9twkCsNLNvaHkGYf6hTA8GFe75+1V+2WxJNOCucEi49g+F2QF9nGawVj7f/fvVkU5nPYc99YDojTgMkYM0bWxoJyk4= SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2016 15:39:45.0319 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; Ip=[66.129.239.19]; Helo=[p-emfe01b-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1380 Archived-At: Cc: Curdle , ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 15:40:06 -0000 Hi, Over on the ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org list, Stephen Farrell suggested that I see if I could add https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 under the curdle charter. The draft deprecates a Secure Shell (SSH) key exchange algorithm (Diffie-Hellman group1 - a 768-bit MODP group) and recommends replacement with stronger Diffie-Hellman MODP groups (groups 14, 15, 16). The draft does have two interoperable implementations that have implemented it. Does it fit well enough into the curdle charter to be added here? Thank you, -- Mark ------- forwarded message ------- From: Stephen Farrell Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:34:05 +0000 Subject: Re: draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2-01 (was Re: DH group exchange) Hiya, On 13/01/16 09:21, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > Hi, > > URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 > > I believe that OpenSSH and Dropbear SSH have both implemented interoperable > versions using the current 01 version at this point in time. > > I would be interested in hearing if any other implementations have > adopted these new DH groups. > > Are there any additional comments or changes needed for the draft before > we can move to the next step in the process? > > Hmmm... What is next? Getting 'AD is watching' or is it getting a > document shepherd? There's no active SSH WG, but there is the curdle WG. Its charter [1] however is limited in terms of what it's allowed to add to protocols. OTOH, this is not defining any new groups, just updating codepoints, including deprecating one (to NOT RECOMMENDED). So the draft could fit there on that basis I guess. So I'd say send a mail to the curdle list and suggest this be adopted there. If that doesn't work I can look at AD sponsoring it, but since one of the reasons to setup curdle was to avoid too many of these being AD sponsored, please try there first. Cheers, S. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/curdle > > Thank you, > -- Mark From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:31:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757741B2C7D; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l8jlU_vgvx4c; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 877CC1B2C7C; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:31:41 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799c6d000007d66-71-56967bdd56fd Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 8B.86.32102.DDB76965; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 17:31:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:31:39 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: "mdb@juniper.net" , Curdle Chairs Thread-Topic: [Curdle] Call for Adoption Thread-Index: AdFNc6BKA7QqyhDWQwqHeDdW5x3T6gApQ/zDAAHIjwA= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:31:39 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1924@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <65770.1452699581@eng-mail01.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <65770.1452699581@eng-mail01.juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupkkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLrHT/de9bQwg91feSxm9mxgtti6cBaz xYd7j9ksuu5cZ3Ng8Viy5CeTx/Wmq+weCx/2MAYwR3HZpKTmZJalFunbJXBlXJ+8kbnglGjF gg/L2BoY1wp2MXJwSAiYSEzfltnFyAlkiklcuLeerYuRi0NI4AijxMtZF1ggnOWMEnsXHWMG qWITMJJoO9TPDmKLCARKXHl7CSzOLOApce7TKiYQW1hAQ2L74z9MEDWaEpNOPWeDsK0kJv/7 yAJiswioSky4uZMRxOYV8JXoW3wRzBYSqJTYvbOLDeQ4TgEzib/vIkDCjEDHfT+1hglilbjE rSfzmSCOFpBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WCFtJYtLSc6wQ9ToSC3Z/YoOwtSWWLXzNDLFWUOLkzCcs ExjFZiEZOwtJyywkLbOQtCxgZFnFyFFaXJCTm25kuIkRGEHHJNgcdzDu7fU8xCjAwajEw7th 79QwIdbEsuLK3EOMEhzMSiK8MRXTwoR4UxIrq1KL8uOLSnNSiw8xSnOwKInzJso0hgkJpCeW pGanphakFsFkmTg4pRoYjdI+TAjcd3Ka3bVeKxbOXal+rZZ3j7p8SLm8UOHPiZef2fcVK72N 85z6qPr/ppk3Tjlc3P5s0pG7nBof9E9t2a/8iV1WTyCXz3xbfn42098J3Iea7r1lKUqfIZv9 JcTY48Dd5CsNe6UkJj+oi7ydWyImxl1n7NlySy9le2bflpANXWHSM+ZsUGIpzkg01GIuKk4E AMjc3EKcAgAA Archived-At: Cc: Curdle , "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:31:43 -0000 Hi, =20 Thanks for the suggestion. I think it falls into the scope of the WG. =20 The question I would have is whether it would make sense to extend the=20 document to the crypto suites others than DH - i.e. encryption mac. =20 This would result in a document providing cryptographic=20 recommendations for SSH and have this document regularly updated as=20 crypto evolves. Any opinion ? =20 BR, Daniel -----Original Message----- From: mdb@juniper.net [mailto:mdb@juniper.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40 AM To: Curdle Chairs Cc: Curdle; ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption=20 Hi, Over on the ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org list, Stephen Farrell suggested that I see = if I could add https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2=20 under the curdle charter.=20 The draft deprecates a Secure Shell (SSH) key exchange algorithm (Diffie-He= llman group1 - a 768-bit MODP group) and recommends replacement with strong= er Diffie-Hellman MODP groups (groups 14, 15, 16). The draft does have two interoperable implementations that have implemented= it. Does it fit well enough into the curdle charter to be added here? Thank you, -- Mark ------- forwarded message ------- From: Stephen Farrell Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:34:05 +0000 Subject: Re: draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2-01 (was Re: DH group exchange) Hiya, On 13/01/16 09:21, Mark D. Baushke wrote: > Hi, >=20 > URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 >=20 > I believe that OpenSSH and Dropbear SSH have both implemented=20 > interoperable versions using the current 01 version at this point in time= . >=20 > I would be interested in hearing if any other implementations have=20 > adopted these new DH groups. >=20 > Are there any additional comments or changes needed for the draft=20 > before we can move to the next step in the process? >=20 > Hmmm... What is next? Getting 'AD is watching' or is it getting a=20 > document shepherd? There's no active SSH WG, but there is the curdle WG. Its charter [1] howev= er is limited in terms of what it's allowed to add to protocols. OTOH, this= is not defining any new groups, just updating codepoints, including deprec= ating one (to NOT RECOMMENDED). So the draft could fit there on that basis = I guess. So I'd say send a mail to the curdle list and suggest this be adop= ted there. If that doesn't work I can look at AD sponsoring it, but since one of the r= easons to setup curdle was to avoid too many of these being AD sponsored, p= lease try there first. Cheers, S. [1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/curdle >=20 > Thank you, > -- Mark From nobody Wed Jan 13 08:40:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479901B2B1D; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u7XiM_hLAn7t; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x22e.google.com (mail-yk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5326B1B2AC2; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id a85so416866946ykb.1; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BqjaTsdscSXBeFYdCIyjowG5NDkZ6nx4lY3FUOg2ReU=; b=toOqFmnJBTrury4ouxjjpwryd0zpwywqjZgybgdUWJlwPsDHWgeL7+NBPEnHbZtB8B 5J1cz3Ee2WGw/gtmWVELj7/itCsUdvPKQ4hbh2ketnPvV7XUUQX/w3Aj6IBhBO0zhkK1 5A/Y3fyjXosXT1dINYBeZ+EJtTU+Q/FcONmI3ZIBXcSep382Gbi+Mw48YIK5aBZs/Nb3 HLgca840mKT5P9PTae1tt1GP+GecP/X8vHJl40ZkuYpa+7gRZ7SPYjHdvG1RhWlAVwhc Ls6xwWROHeUHDxrm2H2N61TjcaLMACKfm3bqhtWSysaQNfKwC1C4q+PX9mPkWacG6ZMn hXdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BqjaTsdscSXBeFYdCIyjowG5NDkZ6nx4lY3FUOg2ReU=; b=AYRKXiDaLmt1HQugQ0ul9XFyv7LcTRjKplRmEliuumJlp+N1c6GJCejZqkFAvJL5qS SUn+OjwkHGx983AxhRn7L8F9Ogf0BO9lulGbpblAOo39XKxey0a5Ie48kxTQCc7pud0f ah605djlfRLnqkV8Kv41zsOb2T7bR5oKWZaRBN6n4os+uHq5AQvt8Kai177XM303DwER UGp289u3BJxOzo85s61Cla4dyr3Vue7RBm6FFYXC8BkmLqkn0Ho0mzcQttQlTgIxYM1F LBalVnxpHK1+e50cEZ1QdFH5EY2A5mzclYdVxOgehKJpdogYp+y1nLAHkIPdsfsNMxK4 +S9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmI4fCZoQXH9z4E87l+7slpR3temtnA/zw2YKqU8dlVVr2zdwyBw2OUnTKcPouxiZtwOfemv1NthbqgXiEaUkHJIH9kiw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.72.84 with SMTP id v81mr101294721ywa.101.1452703229672; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.13.216.150 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1924@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <65770.1452699581@eng-mail01.juniper.net> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1924@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 08:40:29 -0800 Message-ID: From: Watson Ladd To: Daniel Migault Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , Curdle , Curdle Chairs , "mdb@juniper.net" Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:40:32 -0000 On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Daniel Migault wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for the suggestion. I think it falls into the scope of the WG. > > The question I would have is whether it would make sense to extend the > document to the crypto suites others than DH - i.e. encryption mac. > This would result in a document providing cryptographic > recommendations for SSH and have this document regularly updated as > crypto evolves. Any opinion ? I'd prefer to prioritize the already deployed Curve25519 and Ed25519 work over crypto recommendations which other groups can develop. We also should consider aes-gcm@openssh.com to be added as this addresses a corner case in the spec which makes AEAD complex. > > BR, > Daniel > > -----Original Message----- > From: mdb@juniper.net [mailto:mdb@juniper.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40 AM > To: Curdle Chairs > Cc: Curdle; ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org > Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption > > Hi, > > Over on the ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org list, Stephen Farrell suggested that I se= e if I could add > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 > > under the curdle charter. > > The draft deprecates a Secure Shell (SSH) key exchange algorithm (Diffie-= Hellman group1 - a 768-bit MODP group) and recommends replacement with stro= nger Diffie-Hellman MODP groups (groups 14, 15, 16). > > The draft does have two interoperable implementations that have implement= ed it. > > Does it fit well enough into the curdle charter to be added here? > > Thank you, > -- Mark > > ------- forwarded message ------- > From: Stephen Farrell > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:34:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2-01 (was Re: DH group exchang= e) > > Hiya, > > On 13/01/16 09:21, Mark D. Baushke wrote: >> Hi, >> >> URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 >> >> I believe that OpenSSH and Dropbear SSH have both implemented >> interoperable versions using the current 01 version at this point in tim= e. >> >> I would be interested in hearing if any other implementations have >> adopted these new DH groups. >> >> Are there any additional comments or changes needed for the draft >> before we can move to the next step in the process? >> >> Hmmm... What is next? Getting 'AD is watching' or is it getting a >> document shepherd? > > There's no active SSH WG, but there is the curdle WG. Its charter [1] how= ever is limited in terms of what it's allowed to add to protocols. OTOH, th= is is not defining any new groups, just updating codepoints, including depr= ecating one (to NOT RECOMMENDED). So the draft could fit there on that basi= s I guess. So I'd say send a mail to the curdle list and suggest this be ad= opted there. > > If that doesn't work I can look at AD sponsoring it, but since one of the= reasons to setup curdle was to avoid too many of these being AD sponsored,= please try there first. > > Cheers, > S. > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/curdle > >> >> Thank you, >> -- Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Curdle mailing list > Curdle@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle --=20 "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". --Rousseau. 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DM2PR0501MB1389; 5:hgXySkb7nWyt9OzzD+5x2bpjiD6sSrcDBMT5X7+NK+4196oxa4DvcHx/NxEVmGSC5dnqTH905hQl+JWS9/5p+oirR/Y4PlwpxksEXm2jaJ4mxz/+8xJRygQJqfSYpvtuszjVi672q8dkGzC6kh3FIw==; 24:cMlxeb23HYuEyXeMlIlGTm14NtBWrQoSfLNv07zs+b+us2bAR3sM+QnMIfAzOed18qdDp2uAuSB44s8AhR2+FPmPTpQmViezTYDH7Rh9QNI= SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:23 SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jan 2016 16:50:41.3396 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; Ip=[66.129.239.19]; Helo=[p-emfe01b-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR0501MB1389 Archived-At: Cc: "ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org" , Curdle , Curdle Chairs Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:50:50 -0000 Daniel Migault writes: > Thanks for the suggestion. I think it falls into the scope of the WG. Thank you. > The question I would have is whether it would make sense to extend the > document to the crypto suites others than DH - i.e. encryption mac. I am not sure if this is the best course. There are other SSH drafts also in draft by other authors https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ssh-ext-info https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rsa-dsa-sha2-256 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519 which are working in this area of SSH already. > This would result in a document providing cryptographic > recommendations for SSH and have this document regularly updated as > crypto evolves. Any opinion ? Coming up with RFC 4250bis, RFC 4242bis, RFC 4253bis, and RFC 4254bis would be a lot of work and keeping them regularly updated would be non-trivial. I am open to suggestions for additions or changes to https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 as long as the ietf-SSH group wants that to happen. Does any one else have any opinions on this topic? -- Mark From nobody Wed Jan 13 22:57:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61FC81B2B8B; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:57:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lGd0YG1Y2B8z; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from skroderider.denisbider.com (skroderider.denisbider.com [50.18.172.175]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 919EF1B2B8A; Wed, 13 Jan 2016 22:57:42 -0800 (PST) X-Footer: ZGVuaXNiaWRlci5jb20= Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by skroderider.denisbider.com for watsonbladd@gmail.com; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 06:57:37 +0000 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 06:57:37 +0000 X-User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 Message-ID: <10640250-2692@skroderider.denisbider.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 From: denis bider To: Watson Ladd , Daniel Migault Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-S5EmozfyEYJNjEHgfC5Q" Archived-At: Cc: ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org, Curdle , Curdle Chairs , mdb@juniper.net Subject: [Curdle] SSH crypto updates / Re: Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 06:57:45 -0000 --=-S5EmozfyEYJNjEHgfC5Q Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, > I'd prefer to prioritize the already deployed Curve25519 and > Ed25519 work over crypto recommendations which other > groups can develop. the current practical issue is, for SSH, there aren't such other working gr= oups. Currently, SSH needs a significant amount of maintenance just to keep up wi= th the cryptography landscape alone. Part of this maintenance belongs under= the Curdle WG, but other parts currently have no home (unless Curdle adopt= s them). Parts currently falling under Curdle: =C2=A0 Ed25519 for SSH: =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519 =C2=A0 Curve25519 for SSH: =C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-ssh-curves-00 Crypto updates to SSH that currently have no home unless Curdle adopts them= : =C2=A0 Stronger DH groups for SSH: =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 =C2=A0 RSA signatures with SHA-2 for SSH: =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rsa-dsa-sha2-256 This is an extension to SSH that's not directly crypto related, but comes h= and in hand with the new RSA signature algorithms - it's infrastructure tha= t allows for their efficient discovery without incurring authentication pen= alties: =C2=A0 Extension negotiation for SSH: =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ssh-ext-info In addition to the above, I very much agree that aes-gcm@openssh.com needs = standardization. I would welcome either all of the above being adopted by the Curdle group; = or else, a new WG being created specifically to perform maintenance on SSH. Among other things, the erstwhile SSH working group never finalized the SFT= P spec due to lack of consensus. We now have two SFTP specs, version 3 impl= emented by OpenSSH, and version 6 implemented by most everyone else. It seems to me there's plenty of work that could be done by a new SSH worki= ng group, if it were founded. If Curdle doesn't want to adopt some of the a= bove things, then these things would properly belong into a new SSH working= group. However, there isn't one, currently. denis ----- Original Message ----- From: Watson Ladd=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40 To: Daniel Migault=20 Cc: mdb@juniper.net ; Curdle Chairs ; Curdle ; ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org=20 Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 8:31 AM, Daniel Migault wrote: >=C2=A0 Hi, > >=C2=A0 Thanks for the suggestion. I think it falls into the scope of the W= G. > >=C2=A0 The question I would have is whether it would make sense to extend = the >=C2=A0 document to the crypto suites others than DH - i.e. encryption mac. >=C2=A0 This would result in a document providing cryptographic >=C2=A0 recommendations for SSH and have this document regularly updated as >=C2=A0 crypto evolves. Any opinion ? I'd prefer to prioritize the already deployed Curve25519 and Ed25519 work over crypto recommendations which other groups can develop. We also should consider aes-gcm@openssh.com to be added as this addresses a corner case in the spec which makes AEAD complex. > >=C2=A0 BR, >=C2=A0 Daniel > > -----Original Message----- > From: mdb@juniper.net [mailto:mdb@juniper.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40 AM > To: Curdle Chairs > Cc: Curdle; ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org > Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption > > Hi, > > Over on the ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org list, Stephen Farrell suggested that I se= e if I could add > >=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-s= ha2 > > under the curdle charter. > > The draft deprecates a Secure Shell (SSH) key exchange algorithm (Diffie-= Hellman group1 - a 768-bit MODP group) and recommends replacement with stro= nger Diffie-Hellman MODP groups (groups 14, 15, 16). > > The draft does have two interoperable implementations that have implement= ed it. > > Does it fit well enough into the curdle charter to be added here? > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thank you, >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -- Mark > >=C2=A0 ------- forwarded message ------- > From: Stephen Farrell > Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:34:05 +0000 > Subject: Re: draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2-01 (was Re: DH group exchang= e) > > Hiya, > > On 13/01/16 09:21, Mark D. Baushke wrote: >> Hi, >> >> URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2 >> >> I believe that OpenSSH and Dropbear SSH have both implemented >> interoperable versions using the current 01 version at this point in tim= e. >> >> I would be interested in hearing if any other implementations have >> adopted these new DH groups. >> >> Are there any additional comments or changes needed for the draft >> before we can move to the next step in the process? >> >> Hmmm... What is next? Getting 'AD is watching' or is it getting a >> document shepherd? > > There's no active SSH WG, but there is the curdle WG. Its charter [1] how= ever is limited in terms of what it's allowed to add to protocols. OTOH, th= is is not defining any new groups, just updating codepoints, including depr= ecating one (to NOT RECOMMENDED). So the draft could fit there on that basi= s I guess. So I'd say send a mail to the curdle list and suggest this be ad= opted there. > > If that doesn't work I can look at AD sponsoring it, but since one of the= reasons to setup curdle was to avoid too many of these being AD sponsored,= please try there first. > > Cheers, > S. > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/curdle > >> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thank you, >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -- Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Curdle mailing list > Curdle@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle --=20 "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". --Rousseau. = --=-S5EmozfyEYJNjEHgfC5Q Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,

> I'd prefer to prioritize the al= ready deployed Curve25519 and
> Ed25519 work over crypto recommendati= ons which other
> groups can develop.

the current practical is= sue is, for SSH, there aren't such other working groups.

Currently, = SSH needs a significant amount of maintenance just to keep up with the cryp= tography landscape alone. Part of this maintenance belongs under the Curdle= WG, but other parts currently have no home (unless Curdle adopts them).
Parts currently falling under Curdle:

  Ed25519 for SSH:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bjh21-ssh-ed25519

&n= bsp; Curve25519 for SSH:
  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefs= son-ssh-curves-00

Crypto updates to SSH that currently have no home = unless Curdle adopts them:

  Stronger DH groups for SSH:
&nb= sp; https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2
  RSA signatures with SHA-2 for SSH:
  https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/draft-rsa-dsa-sha2-256

This is an extension to SSH that's= not directly crypto related, but comes hand in hand with the new RSA signa= ture algorithms - it's infrastructure that allows for their efficient disco= very without incurring authentication penalties:

  Extension ne= gotiation for SSH:
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ssh-ext= -info

In addition to the above, I very much agree that aes-gcm@opens= sh.com needs standardization.

I would welcome either all of the abov= e being adopted by the Curdle group; or else, a new WG being created specif= ically to perform maintenance on SSH.

Among other things, the erstwh= ile SSH working group never finalized the SFTP spec due to lack of consensu= s. We now have two SFTP specs, version 3 implemented by OpenSSH, and versio= n 6 implemented by most everyone else.

It seems to me there's plenty= of work that could be done by a new SSH working group, if it were founded.= If Curdle doesn't want to adopt some of the above things, then these thing= s would properly belong into a new SSH working group.

However, there= isn't one, currently.

denis


----- Original Message -----=
From: Watson Ladd
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40
To: Da= niel Migault
Cc: mdb@juniper.net ; Curdle Chairs ; Curdle ; ietf-ssh@Ne= tBSD.org
Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption

On Wed, Jan 13,= 2016 at 8:31 AM, Daniel Migault
<daniel.migault@ericsson.com> wro= te:
>  Hi,
>
>  Thanks for the suggestion. I th= ink it falls into the scope of the WG.
>
>  The question I= would have is whether it would make sense to extend the
>  docu= ment to the crypto suites others than DH - i.e. encryption mac.
>&nbs= p; This would result in a document providing cryptographic
>  re= commendations for SSH and have this document regularly updated as
>&n= bsp; crypto evolves. Any opinion ?

I'd prefer to prioritize the alre= ady deployed Curve25519 and Ed25519
work over crypto recommendations whi= ch other groups can develop. We
also should consider aes-gcm@openssh.com= to be added as this addresses
a corner case in the spec which makes AEA= D complex.

>
>  BR,
>  Daniel
>
&g= t; -----Original Message-----
> From: mdb@juniper.net [mailto:mdb@jun= iper.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 10:40 AM
> To: Cu= rdle Chairs
> Cc: Curdle; ietf-ssh@NetBSD.org
> Subject: Re: [C= urdle] Call for Adoption
>
> Hi,
>
> Over on the ie= tf-ssh@NetBSD.org list, Stephen Farrell suggested that I see if I could add=
>
>   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke= -ssh-dh-group-sha2
>
> under the curdle charter.
>
>= ; The draft deprecates a Secure Shell (SSH) key exchange algorithm (Diffie-= Hellman group1 - a 768-bit MODP group) and recommends replacement with stro= nger Diffie-Hellman MODP groups (groups 14, 15, 16).
>
> The dr= aft does have two interoperable implementations that have implemented it.>
> Does it fit well enough into the curdle charter to be added = here?
>
>         Thank= you,
>         -- Mark
&g= t;
>  ------- forwarded message -------
> From: Stephen Fa= rrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:3= 4:05 +0000
> Subject: Re: draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2-01 (was Re:= DH group exchange)
>
> Hiya,
>
> On 13/01/16 09:21= , Mark D. Baushke wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> URL: https= ://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-baushke-ssh-dh-group-sha2
>>
= >> I believe that OpenSSH and Dropbear SSH have both implemented
&= gt;> interoperable versions using the current 01 version at this point i= n time.
>>
>> I would be interested in hearing if any oth= er implementations have
>> adopted these new DH groups.
>>= ;
>> Are there any additional comments or changes needed for the d= raft
>> before we can move to the next step in the process?
>= ;>
>> Hmmm... What is next? Getting 'AD is watching' or is it g= etting a
>> document shepherd?
>
> There's no active S= SH WG, but there is the curdle WG. Its charter [1] however is limited in te= rms of what it's allowed to add to protocols. OTOH, this is not defining an= y new groups, just updating codepoints, including deprecating one (to NOT R= ECOMMENDED). So the draft could fit there on that basis I guess. So I'd say= send a mail to the curdle list and suggest this be adopted there.
><= br>> If that doesn't work I can look at AD sponsoring it, but since one = of the reasons to setup curdle was to avoid too many of these being AD spon= sored, please try there first.
>
> Cheers,
> S.
>> [1] https://tools.ietf.org/wg/curdle
>
>>
>>=        Thank you,
>>  &nbs= p;    -- Mark
>
> ______________________________= _________________
> Curdle mailing list
> Curdle@ietf.org
&g= t; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle



--
"Man = is born free, but everywhere he is in chains".
--Rousseau.

= --=-S5EmozfyEYJNjEHgfC5Q-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 07:26:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 005C01B2EB5; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:26:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.453 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.453 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JnsLDXAHJbRg; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19EFF1B3848; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:26:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.rfc1925.org (calcifer.labs.nic.cz [217.31.192.138]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75FD11813C6; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:26:50 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1453908410; bh=lS5bABYgDwnoREBgBQHcFSCBeVhuQbNS4kE57mV+2p4=; h=Date:From:To; b=vySTokA/ui9lGYy0F2M4LTaK6ozFd7h0oQn8ByPUNK26SeE2vrr2K1KiX17ScjhaS IojZPCne+JeYQ8lZVvbgTSANUQL+EraW1zeqjJ28fqNuBXiDy0hDCNb0fv/6H0jb8o rbfh7YHunhIy4h7rZ+caL5geACS4TD7YQijJDUEk= Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:26:50 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= To: curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs Message-ID: <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [217.31.192.138] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1178 (ZimbraWebClient - FF43 (Linux)/8.6.0_GA_1178) Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption Thread-Index: f/aEJS2Pz7wjsPSrGetz0FYP6vHsFQ== X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:26:54 -0000 Dear chairs and wg members >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >=20 > Support. as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to use Ed= 25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually short-= lived) b) proceed with independent draft c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency between di= fferent protocols, and because people are going to constantly ask why we ha= ven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other opinions. Cheers, -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow -------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ -------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 27 08:24:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41251A8A90; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:23:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8JcUW8aalKg; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from duva.sjd.se (duva.sjd.se [IPv6:2001:9b0:1:1702::100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71DEF1A8A91; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 08:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from m176-64-191-86.cust.tele2.se (m176-64-191-86.cust.tele2.se [176.64.191.86]) (authenticated bits=0) by duva.sjd.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id u0RGNavr002498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:23:40 +0100 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----GIQJFM0FFXU3FOXGSK3BS9KXO7ALZX" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Simon Josefsson Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:23:27 +0100 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= , curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs Message-ID: <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at duva.sjd.se X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 16:24:00 -0000 ------GIQJFM0FFXU3FOXGSK3BS9KXO7ALZX Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are likely to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also the desire for short signatures. We can always publish it later. BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations around for ed25519. /Simon "Ondřej Surý" skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 CET) >Dear chairs and wg members > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >> >> Support. > >as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to >use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. > >I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: > >a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually >short-lived) >b) proceed with independent draft >c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 > >I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency >between different protocols, and because people are going to constantly >ask why we haven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other >opinions. > >Cheers, >-- > Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow > -------------------------------------------- > CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC > Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic > mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ > -------------------------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >Curdle mailing list >Curdle@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------GIQJFM0FFXU3FOXGSK3BS9KXO7ALZX Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are likely to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also the desire for short signatures.

We can always publish it later.

BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations around for ed25519.

/Simon

"Ondřej Surý" <ondrej.sury@nic.cz> skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 CET)
Dear chairs and wg members

 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03
 
 Support.

as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft.

I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448:

a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually short-lived)
b) proceed with independent draft
c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519

I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency between different protocols, and because people are goin!
 g to
constantly ask why we haven't done Ed448.  But I would like to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
--
 Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow

 CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o.    --     Laboratoře CZ.NIC
 Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic
 mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz    https://nic.cz/



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Please excuse my brevity. ------GIQJFM0FFXU3FOXGSK3BS9KXO7ALZX-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 09:04:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3FC1ACD9B; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:04:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fPWARTUygqXZ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:03:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9564A1ACDA6; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:03:58 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799c6d000007d66-ef-56a8f86bb5e2 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 7E.74.32102.B68F8A65; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:03:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:03:57 -0500 From: Daniel Migault To: Simon Josefsson , =?utf-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= , "curdle@ietf.org" , curdle-chairs Thread-Topic: [Curdle] Call for Adoption Thread-Index: AQHRTYJ72QZC5Mlnu0Wb0YQpOXmeSp8P5xUAgAAP0oD//7QPQA== Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121C19D2@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121C19D2eusaamb107erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrBIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn272jxVhBhP2yFjM7NnAbLF14Sxm i7tr/S1alrtY3Ntyid2B1eNzcxujx5IlP5k8Zp65yO6x6fIdxgCWKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6M 5b+dC46kVzQ+u8XYwHgnpYuRk0NCwETi4Ycf7BC2mMSFe+vZuhi5OIQEjjBKLJk5gx3CWc4o ceffbVaQKjYBI4m2Q/1gHSICGxkl7i3KA7GZBZQl3qx7ygJiCwuoS/z89Zupi5EDqEZD4uPJ CIhyJ4kvV3+ygdgsAqoSz58/ZAUp4RXwlZi1TB1i1R+giRdWMILUcAo4SuzZ/x1sFSPQcd9P rWGCWCUucevJfCaIowUkluw5zwxhi0q8fPyPFcJWlNjXP50doj5f4tfhe2Cn8QoISpyc+YRl AqPoLCSjZiEpm4WkbBbQecwCmhLrd+lDlChKTOl+yA5ha0i0zpnLjiy+gJF9FSNHaXFBTm66 keEmRmD8HZNgc9zBuLfX8xCjAAejEg+vwaHlYUKsiWXFlbmHGCU4mJVEeK98WhEmxJuSWFmV WpQfX1Sak1p8iFGag0VJnHcL/6IwIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA6ONidkOfQNTr+TXP0py WuX/nAwN5eT86Hq9Mprx7ZlNUwK8vFhn80QkcK8uWNp3Sb47fFFCrdHxq/9mJOUws91NXfdZ noV/3p+dCVvfOq/L41zWut58XsGC4Fxxg/r8LyIvr8x5FJsa9E5g1evSucY5aS8msTp0K/3v YSkP7zi36fyfH1uNm5VYijMSDbWYi4oTAZ2w2DO7AgAA Archived-At: Cc: Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." 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2Xmy2+Ane/3GB41Jw6Yszl+27ThpC3yRis3ite1fSo0FrN8OQtZpaBPOz7Z39CMpZt HTP0EPNpq7am8x3kR6KJrF+DZAvtB9NFBvN3vkK0= Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com (ecp.msg.corp.akamai.com [172.27.123.34]) by prod-mail-relay11.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE174202C; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:06:35 +0000 (GMT) Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.101) by usma1ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1076.9; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:06:35 -0500 Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.101]) by usma1ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.101]) with mapi id 15.00.1076.000; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:06:35 -0500 From: "Salz, Rich" To: Daniel Migault , Simon Josefsson , =?utf-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= , "curdle@ietf.org" , curdle-chairs Thread-Topic: [Curdle] Call for Adoption Thread-Index: AQHRWRcpbTZH1/XZT06gNAI/8VFkmp8P372AgAALUYD//6za4A== Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:06:34 +0000 Message-ID: <597bfb46b1654a1a929a23b6f2fa1691@usma1ex-dag1mb1.msg.corp.akamai.com> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121C19D2@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121C19D2@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [172.19.42.161] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_597bfb46b1654a1a929a23b6f2fa1691usma1exdag1mb1msgcorpak_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IrAhYsWJPi9F; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 610901ACE73; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.177.51.69] (cst-prg-145-246.cust.vodafone.cz [46.135.145.246]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56872180B22; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:17:54 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1453915078; bh=12qs84z6INwVpjaN49eQWt6cgbUPHP4KrKkkZQRLco8=; h=From:Date:To; b=OjrUeU2k+S1lgRiXgPsQbv0Qn+8cb1K+rri+lNNym+C2Y03PrgySpJq0rQkPbp0DV KzxfxtdTi3oXmne049Ultxqq7umbfYP1+BxxiV9CmQTbe4Htm9VI+0fWNO3i5p/hLN sIXhPxnBluR1T/pMrVzQLKSYgx0HsiXe1zCnKDyA= In-Reply-To: <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> X-Referenced-Uid: 467440 Thread-Topic: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption User-Agent: Type for Android MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----L9J3V75RZMPIGFRM22WVT3FV7QU9UD" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?UTF-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:17:44 +0100 To: Simon Josefsson Message-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:18:02 -0000 ------L9J3V75RZMPIGFRM22WVT3FV7QU9UD Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 in the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for recommendations here... -- Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow CZ.NIC On 27 Jan 2016 17:24, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson wrote: >I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely >dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new >algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There >is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, >and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are likely >to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also the >desire for short signatures. > >We can always publish it later. > >BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations >around for ed25519. > >/Simon > >"Ondřej Surý" skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 >CET) >>Dear chairs and wg members >> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >>> >>> Support. >> >>as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to >>use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. >> >>I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: >> >>a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually >>short-lived) >>b) proceed with independent draft >>c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 >> >>I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency >>between different protocols, and because people are going to >constantly >>ask why we haven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other >>opinions. >> >>Cheers, >>-- >> Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow >> -------------------------------------------- >> CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC >> Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic >> mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ >> -------------------------------------------- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Curdle mailing list >>Curdle@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle > >-- >Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------L9J3V75RZMPIGFRM22WVT3FV7QU9UD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 in the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for recommendations here...

--
Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow
CZ.NIC

On 27 Jan 2016, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> wrote:
I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are likely to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also the desire for short signatures.

We can always publish it later.

BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations around for ed25519.

/Simon

"Ondřej Surý" <ondrej.sury@nic.cz> skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 CET) 
Dear chairs and wg members


   

    
 
     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03
     

    
 
    
 Support.
    

   

as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft.

I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448:

a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually short-lived)
b) proceed with independent draft
c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519

I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency between different protocols, and because people are goin!
 g to
constantly ask why we haven't done Ed448.  But I would like to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
--
 Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow

   

 CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o.    --     Laboratoře CZ.NIC
 Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic
 mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz    https://nic.cz/

   



   

Curdle mailing list
Curdle@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
------L9J3V75RZMPIGFRM22WVT3FV7QU9UD-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 09:37:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5611ACED1; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:37:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ah9Vn2mKbHqg; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from duva.sjd.se (duva.sjd.se [IPv6:2001:9b0:1:1702::100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 264D41ACE09; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from m176-64-191-86.cust.tele2.se (m176-64-191-86.cust.tele2.se [176.64.191.86]) (authenticated bits=0) by duva.sjd.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id u0RHbV2Y009682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:37:35 +0100 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----JW1A4H4Z07S5R87I7IHFBACYQ53C6Z" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Simon Josefsson Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 18:37:23 +0100 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= Message-ID: <391D612B-4A49-49A5-939D-A146DEC0087B@josefsson.org> X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at duva.sjd.se X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:37:55 -0000 ------JW1A4H4Z07S5R87I7IHFBACYQ53C6Z Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Are there any implementations? You get worse security properties with the ph-variant. So unless there is a legacy reason (api) my recommendation is to go with the non-ph variant. It uses sha512 too if that makes you happier :) /Simon "Ondřej Surý" skrev: (27 januari 2016 18:17:44 CET) >No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 in >the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for >recommendations here... > >-- >Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow >CZ.NIC > > > >On 27 Jan 2016 17:24, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson >wrote: >>I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely >>dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new >>algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There >>is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, >>and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are >likely >>to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also >the >>desire for short signatures. >> >>We can always publish it later. >> >>BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations >>around for ed25519. >> >>/Simon >> >>"Ondřej Surý" skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 >>CET) >>>Dear chairs and wg members >>> >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >>>> >>>> Support. >>> >>>as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to >>>use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. >>> >>>I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: >>> >>>a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually >>>short-lived) >>>b) proceed with independent draft >>>c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 >>> >>>I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency >>>between different protocols, and because people are going to >>constantly >>>ask why we haven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other >>>opinions. >>> >>>Cheers, >>>-- >>> Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laboratoře CZ.NIC >>> Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic >>> mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Curdle mailing list >>>Curdle@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle >> >>-- >>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------JW1A4H4Z07S5R87I7IHFBACYQ53C6Z Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Are there any implementations? You get worse security properties with the ph-variant. So unless there is a legacy reason (api) my recommendation is to go with the non-ph variant. It uses sha512 too if that makes you happier :)

/Simon

"Ondřej Surý" <ondrej.sury@nic.cz> skrev: (27 januari 2016 18:17:44 CET)

No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 in the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for recommendations here...

--
Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow
CZ.NIC

On 27 Jan 2016, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> wrote:
I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are likely to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also the desire for short signatures.

We can always publish it later.

BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations around for ed25519.

/Simon

"Ondřej Surý" <ondrej.sury@nic.cz> skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:26:50 CET) 
Dear chairs and wg members


   

    
 
     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03
     

    
 
    
 Support.
    

   

as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft.

I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448:

a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually short-lived)
b) proceed with independent draft
c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519

I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency between different protocols, and because people are goin!
 g to
constantly ask why we haven't done Ed448.  But I would like to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
--
 Ondřej Surý -- Technical Fellow

   

 CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o.    --     Laboratoře CZ.NIC
 Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic
 mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz    https://nic.cz/

   



   

Curdle mailing list
Curdle@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ------JW1A4H4Z07S5R87I7IHFBACYQ53C6Z-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 09:48:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C281AD10A; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:48:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6jboe8S8KSH6; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:48:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from welho-filter4.welho.com (welho-filter4.welho.com [83.102.41.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76671AD1FE; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by welho-filter4.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00FE2608; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:48:36 +0200 (EET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at pp.htv.fi Received: from welho-smtp3.welho.com ([IPv6:::ffff:83.102.41.86]) by localhost (welho-filter4.welho.com [::ffff:83.102.41.26]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9TvZj5KQMl8j; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:48:36 +0200 (EET) Received: from LK-Perkele-V2 (87-100-151-39.bb.dnainternet.fi [87.100.151.39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by welho-smtp3.welho.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BB732313; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:48:36 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:48:36 +0200 From: Ilari Liusvaara To: =?utf-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= Message-ID: <20160127174835.GB8791@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Sender: ilariliusvaara@welho.com Archived-At: Cc: Simon Josefsson , curdle@ietf.org, curdle-chairs@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:48:52 -0000 On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 06:17:44PM +0100, Ondřej Surý wrote: > No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 > in the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for > recommendations here... My advice about Ed25519ph: Don't use, it is there only due to bad legacy APIs. Ed25519 can easily sign few kB of highly temporally local data as-is. (Same for Ed448... one implementation I have even does scatter- gather signing/verification). (and if some application call for very high amounts of data to sign or poor temporal localization, build the required mechanisms at protocol level, since otherwise you will cause severe problems for the verifier). Also, the prehash with SHA-512 greatly weakens Ed25519ph. For similar reasons as original RSA-PSS proposal with MD5 hash is still a mighty challenge, while the standarized RSA-PSS with MD5 is easy pickings. -Ilari From nobody Thu Jan 28 00:38:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CFA1ACE07 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sIXzKfu-BN0q for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:38:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E441ACDC3 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 00:37:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.rfc1925.org (calcifer.labs.nic.cz [217.31.192.138]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9654718181E; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:37:57 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1453970277; bh=DXwEAsG56pMtjYdAUHUkoWcyZKMZeIRN1PJaGQYKP7U=; h=Date:From:To; b=SMxtokYrXmyWkY26nBRAmLPlscqDNObvKZy7kigapcgbh/RCrw9NTUg/As8tsQMDs qzNjRWtE0R4AYHUuh69XvrFBM0VDVZHROM9HrikiRaCvgMlpUzGHK5MWB3J53Gd+Uk gDWPvWBjt0fQqNpI+j5ynN5cyqcknF8X4G3RGzHI= Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:37:57 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= To: curdle@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds , "Josefsson, Simon" Message-ID: <222040921.17337.1453970277586.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <391D612B-4A49-49A5-939D-A146DEC0087B@josefsson.org> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> <391D612B-4A49-49A5-939D-A146DEC0087B@josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [217.31.192.138] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1178 (ZimbraWebClient - FF43 (Linux)/8.6.0_GA_1178) Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption Thread-Index: 2P3IQzQdiVuTHBJEZzYUMS5IC6iY3w== X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 08:38:03 -0000 Simon, could you get this and possibly other's comments on Ed25519ph varian= t into Chapter 4 of irtr-cfrg-eddsa? Note about Ed25519ph being weeker should deserve a sentence or two in Secur= ity Considerations as well. And now I am going to rewrite my draft to use Pure variant. Cheers, Ondrej -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow -------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ -------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:37:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption > Are there any implementations? You get worse security properties with the > ph-variant. So unless there is a legacy reason (api) my recommendation is= to go > with the non-ph variant. It uses sha512 too if that makes you happier :) >=20 > /Simon >=20 > "Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" skrev: (27 januari 2016 18:1= 7:44 CET) >>No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 in >>the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for >>recommendations here... >> >>-- >>Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow >>CZ.NIC >> >> >> >>On 27 Jan 2016 17:24, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson >>wrote: >>>I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely >>>dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying new >>>algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers bugs. There >>>is probably only one ed448 implementation following the latest spec, >>>and it will take time to get others to materialize so people are >>likely >>>to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also >>the >>>desire for short signatures. >>> >>>We can always publish it later. >>> >>>BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations >>>around for ed25519. >>> >>>/Simon >>> >>>"Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" skrev: (27 januari 2016 16:= 26:50 >>>CET) >>>>Dear chairs and wg members >>>> >>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Support. >>>> >>>>as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft to >>>>use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. >>>> >>>>I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: >>>> >>>>a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are usually >>>>short-lived) >>>>b) proceed with independent draft >>>>c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 >>>> >>>>I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency >>>>between different protocols, and because people are going to >>>constantly >>>>ask why we haven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other >>>>opinions. >>>> >>>>Cheers, >>>>-- >>>> Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC >>>> Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic >>>> mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Curdle mailing list >>>>Curdle@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle >>> >>>-- >>>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >=20 > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From nobody Thu Jan 28 01:07:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2239E1AD2AF for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:06:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y3Hagr8Klpv2 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from duva.sjd.se (duva.sjd.se [IPv6:2001:9b0:1:1702::100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D26961AD272 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 01:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from latte.josefsson.org ([IPv6:2001:9b0:104:42::a86]) (authenticated bits=0) by duva.sjd.se (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4) with ESMTP id u0S96cDb000640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:06:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:06:31 +0100 From: Simon Josefsson To: =?UTF-8?B?T25kxZllaiBTdXLDvQ==?= Message-ID: <20160128100631.5dc4f255@latte.josefsson.org> In-Reply-To: <222040921.17337.1453970277586.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> References: <2DD56D786E600F45AC6BDE7DA4E8A8C1121B1409@eusaamb107.ericsson.se> <20160112214450.GB17156@LK-Perkele-V2.elisa-laajakaista.fi> <1213344040.17031.1453908410462.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> <90D7FAB9-CD2F-4931-885A-C68B3D183FD3@josefsson.org> <391D612B-4A49-49A5-939D-A146DEC0087B@josefsson.org> <222040921.17337.1453970277586.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.11.1 (GTK+ 2.24.25; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/1yv=ZcXees8YVrunHnr81R+"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at duva.sjd.se X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Cc: curdle@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 09:06:59 -0000 --Sig_/1yv=ZcXees8YVrunHnr81R+ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed -- given this discussion, I think a "guide to chosing EdDSA variant" is warranted. The disadvantage with lumping these variants together is that people may chose the wrong variant, or be overwhelmed by options and walk away. In my mind, Ed25519 is what everyone should opt for first. If the protocol is built around hashing data before signing, such as OpenPGP, then an Ed25519ph-like approach is natural, but otherwise it shouldn't be used. Ed448 is unproven, and the new domain-separation schema makes it rather unattractive from a peer-review and implementers point of view in the next 3-5 years, in my opinion, so I don't currently see why anyone would want to use it. /Simon > Simon, could you get this and possibly other's comments on Ed25519ph > variant into Chapter 4 of irtr-cfrg-eddsa? >=20 > Note about Ed25519ph being weeker should deserve a sentence or two in > Security Considerations as well. >=20 > And now I am going to rewrite my draft to use Pure variant. >=20 > Cheers, > Ondrej >=20 > -- > Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow > -------------------------------------------- > CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC > Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic > mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ > -------------------------------------------- >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:37:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [Curdle] Call for Adoption >=20 > > Are there any implementations? You get worse security properties > > with the ph-variant. So unless there is a legacy reason (api) my > > recommendation is to go with the non-ph variant. It uses sha512 too > > if that makes you happier :) > >=20 > > /Simon > >=20 > > "Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" skrev: (27 januari 2016 18= :17:44 > > CET) > >>No strong reason for ph, apart from the fact we already had SHA-512 > >>in the draft, so it seemed a logical choice. I am all ears for > >>recommendations here... > >> > >>-- > >>Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow > >>CZ.NIC > >> > >> > >> > >>On 27 Jan 2016 17:24, at 17:24, Simon Josefsson > >> wrote: > >>>I suggest dropping ed448 for dnssec. The reason for me is purely > >>>dnssec-based. For dnssec we've seen significant issues deploying > >>>new algorithms, e.g. cloudflare's use of ecdsa still triggers > >>>bugs. There is probably only one ed448 implementation following > >>>the latest spec, and it will take time to get others to > >>>materialize so people are > >>likely > >>>to not implement ed25519 and ed448 at the same time. There is also > >>the > >>>desire for short signatures. > >>> > >>>We can always publish it later. > >>> > >>>BTW, why ed25519ph? Why not ed25519? There are many implementations > >>>around for ed25519. > >>> > >>>/Simon > >>> > >>>"Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" skrev: (27 januari 2016 1= 6:26:50 > >>>CET) > >>>>Dear chairs and wg members > >>>> > >>>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sury-dnskey-ed25519-03 > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> Support. > >>>> > >>>>as I didn't heard any objections to this, I have update the draft > >>>>to use Ed25519ph variant and submitted the I-D as WG draft. > >>>> > >>>>I have to yet hear what we should do with DNSKEY Ed448: > >>>> > >>>>a) drop it as there's no real benefit (DNSSEC signatures are > >>>>usually short-lived) > >>>>b) proceed with independent draft > >>>>c) merge it into draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 > >>>> > >>>>I am slightly inclined to do c) just for the sake of consistency > >>>>between different protocols, and because people are going to > >>>constantly > >>>>ask why we haven't done Ed448. But I would like to hear other > >>>>opinions. > >>>> > >>>>Cheers, > >>>>-- > >>>> Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow > >>>> -------------------------------------------- > >>>> CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC > >>>> Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic > >>>> mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ > >>>> -------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>Curdle mailing list > >>>>Curdle@ietf.org > >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/curdle > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my > >>>brevity. > >=20 > > -- > > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. --Sig_/1yv=ZcXees8YVrunHnr81R+ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signatur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWqdoXAAoJEIYLf7sy+BGdF7wH/3IYWuMwhpWUqk3au22/P1d6 xh6tyj+kkIaLFQJIV5+8H28Tis8XHIibqzv/Taq3H9eOmu7FhUdLyfyI6hlCCgmn afEp7WKngzBGN68qJAGsoFQsbM9gn0cS9cUdkcQHEiyAl4v9kAEhPzbT4/WwbKKg YCrADExJMe227rFcdh1ik3KkD9C74gBU6LOdZM0tZkWW0J4oCs7XX8MmsisCd/67 e44ASwWa7ILwOGaUdXNiv4YH5m3VbqAtm/CbzxHlQN/5YDvC1y7JOzzoMhQKrLmw QZg53WS3Fl380k+mXTlhUPgLFsMIVDGTNzjG+hWO856xSo32NV6v3nxw9oblkuw= =AXgO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/1yv=ZcXees8YVrunHnr81R+-- From nobody Thu Jan 28 03:36:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED461B3BE2 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 03:36:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zX257ZTis4j8 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 03:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86F4E1B3BE6 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 03:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.rfc1925.org (calcifer.labs.nic.cz [217.31.192.138]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2469A1818B9; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:36:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1453980987; bh=GO8wzLpd18zwfUO5X2XJbOl/zq37LKNNf3qXSfSZ9mM=; h=Date:From:To; b=E6z8pkoloBkHw+iVHl5BfPWCUe3dqwoo/lLlM56h9VN0CQrAbX4KoNcHzCBt/P7k9 kyB8k+Zd/uxQTxLLwbY6bvIpgqTrQSR63cZl04EMDLrUn/o78EIWaT8HBb32Nm/FKN lWXKcqt3Mp8fi3dndaKRaG2i8inByGQSmuMdPxiQ= Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:36:27 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ond=C5=99ej_Sur=C3=BD?= To: curdle@ietf.org, Robert Edmonds Message-ID: <1441624537.17473.1453980987122.JavaMail.zimbra@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <20160128113509.27483.28272.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20160128113509.27483.28272.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [217.31.192.138] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.6.0_GA_1178 (ZimbraWebClient - FF44 (Linux)/8.6.0_GA_1178) Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-01.txt Thread-Index: BcfGQOPi7VlCAw+gg6Z0gvHor01W8g== X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [Curdle] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-01.txt X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:36:30 -0000 Update the draft to remove Ed25519ph and added references to two (one yet n= ot published, but you can read master thesis here: http://essay.utwente.nl/= 68358/) articles on ECC in DNSSEC research. Cheers, -- Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD -- Technical Fellow -------------------------------------------- CZ.NIC, z.s.p.o. -- Laborato=C5=99e CZ.NIC Milesovska 5, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic mailto:ondrej.sury@nic.cz https://nic.cz/ -------------------------------------------- ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: "Ond=C5=99ej Sur=C3=BD" , "Robert Edmonds" Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 12:35:09 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-01.txt A new version of I-D, draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Ondrej Sury and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=09=09draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519 Revision:=0901 Title:=09=09Ed25519 for DNSSEC Document date:=092016-01-28 Group:=09=09Individual Submission Pages:=09=097 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-curdle-dnskey-ed= 25519-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-curdle-dnskey-ed2551= 9/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-01 Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-curdle-dnskey-ed2= 5519-01 Abstract: This document describes how to specify Ed25519 keys and signatures in DNS Security (DNSSEC). It uses the Ed25519 instance of the Edwards- curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA). = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Thu Jan 28 06:14:14 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: curdle@ietf.org Delivered-To: curdle@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971781A871A; Thu, 28 Jan 2016 06:11:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160128141130.12449.86108.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 06:11:30 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 06:14:09 -0800 Cc: curdle@ietf.org Subject: [Curdle] I-D Action: draft-ietf-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-00.txt X-BeenThere: curdle@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "List for discussion of potential new security area wg." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 14:11:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the CURves, Deprecating and a Little more Encryption Working Group of the IETF. Title : Ed25519 for DNSSEC Authors : Ondrej Sury Robert Edmonds Filename : draft-ietf-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2016-01-28 Abstract: This document describes how to specify Ed25519 keys and signatures in DNS Security (DNSSEC). It uses the Ed25519 instance of the Edwards- curve Digital Signature Algorithm (EdDSA). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-curdle-dnskey-ed25519/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-dnskey-ed25519-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/