From nobody Wed Nov 2 10:45:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E571C129579 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:45:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Na1ldyeok62K for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsget2.nist.gov (wsget2.nist.gov [IPv6:2610:20:6005:13::151]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63B70129A1D for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (129.6.18.96) by wsget2.nist.gov (129.6.13.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 13:44:36 -0400 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (129.6.16.94) by WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (129.6.18.96) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.485.1; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 13:44:41 -0400 Received: from [129.6.140.7] (7-140.antd.nist.gov [129.6.140.7]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id uA2Hic2R020319 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 13:44:38 -0400 From: "Rose, Scott" To: dane WG list Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 13:44:38 -0400 Message-ID: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; markup=markdown X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.5r5263) X-NIST-MailScanner-Information: Archived-At: Subject: [dane] NIST SP 1800-6 out for public comment X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 17:45:08 -0000 (sorry if you get multiple copies) The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) and NIST have a new Special Publication: 1800-6 on DNS-Based Secure Email out for public comment. This project was to develop guidance and recommendations for enterprises in deploying DANE to support SMTP over TLS and S/MIME using SMIMEA RRs. The three part guide is on the NCCoE website: https://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email In short - the project was to demonstrate using DANE to support SMTP and S/MIME using different certificate usage values (used 1-3, skipped 0 since it was viewed as least likely to be recommended). The cert usage values were chosen to give examples that would meet various local security polices. Comments welcome. The deadline for comments is Dec 15, 2016 but will likely still be open to suggestions and comments (informally) beyond that date. Thanks, Scott ================================== Scott Rose, NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1-301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 From nobody Wed Nov 2 10:58:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD41B1294D0 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:58:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uNo8eac2HOz8 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bela.nlnetlabs.nl (bela.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2a04:b900::1:0:0:15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF17127A91 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 10:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bela.nlnetlabs.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bela.nlnetlabs.nl (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id uA2HvxAH005222; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 18:57:59 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jaap@NLnetLabs.nl) Message-Id: <201611021757.uA2HvxAH005222@bela.nlnetlabs.nl> To: "Rose, Scott" From: Jaap Akkerhuis In-reply-to: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> References: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> Comments: In-reply-to "Rose, Scott" message dated "Wed, 02 Nov 2016 13:44:38 -0400." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5220.1478109479.1@bela.nlnetlabs.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:57:59 +0100 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bela.nlnetlabs.nl [127.0.0.1]); Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:58:00 +0100 (CET) Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] NIST SP 1800-6 out for public comment X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 17:58:06 -0000 "Rose, Scott" writes: > (sorry if you get multiple copies) > = > The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) and NIST have a= = > new Special Publication: 1800-6 on DNS-Based Secure Email out for publi= c = > comment. This project was to develop guidance and recommendations for = > enterprises in deploying DANE to support SMTP over TLS and S/MIME using= = > SMIMEA RRs. The three part guide is on the NCCoE website: = > https://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email Ah, it is available now. I planned to give a quick introduction to it in the dnssec-workshop at ICA= NN-57 jaa[ From nobody Wed Nov 2 11:20:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04302129B1C for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:20:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4sFdSVoK7owG for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A247129B1E for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.32.60.27] (50-1-99-230.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.99.230]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id uA2IKNGb097005 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 2 Nov 2016 11:20:24 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 50-1-99-230.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.99.230] claimed to be [10.32.60.27] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Rose, Scott" Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 11:20:23 -0700 Message-ID: <684F2D4F-4619-4CF7-A5CD-91FD40CA65A9@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> References: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.5r5263) Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] NIST SP 1800-6 out for public comment X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:20:37 -0000 On 2 Nov 2016, at 10:44, Rose, Scott wrote: > The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) and NIST have > a new Special Publication: 1800-6 on DNS-Based Secure Email out for > public comment. This project was to develop guidance and > recommendations for enterprises in deploying DANE to support SMTP over > TLS and S/MIME using SMIMEA RRs. The three part guide is on the NCCoE > website: https://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email > > In short - the project was to demonstrate using DANE to support SMTP > and S/MIME using different certificate usage values (used 1-3, skipped > 0 since it was viewed as least likely to be recommended). The cert > usage values were chosen to give examples that would meet various > local security polices. > > Comments welcome. The deadline for comments is Dec 15, 2016 but will > likely still be open to suggestions and comments (informally) beyond > that date. Maybe this will cause a few more people to want to comment on the WG Last Call on SMIMEA... --Paul Hoffman From nobody Wed Nov 2 19:24:50 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8EC12989F for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 19:24:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebbgAsmLdKa6 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89566129577 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id 128so55417333oih.0 for ; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XYfdkR9Ww3WkyZSFeTS64d56gS5Scacoos188pQODlg=; b=hyahn+OiB+Iwybb9MK4eT9P1SA4ZcORLOSPci+/nHeXF+V3dFbp5REfYU5iCMdMbL5 gR0H1ATSzFPNCvG3gnJLEkiOPzaBYdeJ3YSJfAsqRRU701nmfb9XdxA+q1bPYTdWJzwx /W33nmdCZlBCrSvBHmXlMORjR436JWvpgo0bE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=XYfdkR9Ww3WkyZSFeTS64d56gS5Scacoos188pQODlg=; b=lLN80l1DZJv1GRihAoqD8XVIN8nH//AhEPU7ApgkBqA5fjy61CVqnuHJuo2qb+1H91 gHpbQBXwHTl7dWHN9YMyC96Kr+MZgADVgczhNj4sGc4aNC1K0hVE88vLuXW5uJdz+veT yNTLo7thR0xKR9RpYaYYbzYqlvAdl/Sy8C4SnBJzOoaEUs5C50Miw9j61DNQ8H/ZpZLj fXs1EHn9xjb5F5Z2r67qblIMtm4mh1BKHqlQgtlzHcypro28Sxx4B9EhvNAwwSJjQQK9 s7s573fcBpdObgUk3NJJrOVNy4NsRPve+O+Up4Xj8bcNvQqUc6r41S35Ez9osKznFbhY onqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvd2rRTe+soVdNjvVV4c0lcTLkznHg+5oAKJWGiSGL2sF1CfrQKoINolJowVb2AuHw== X-Received: by 10.157.41.101 with SMTP id d92mr4647666otb.165.1478139886894; Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [5.5.33.83] (vpn.snozzages.com. [204.42.252.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r126sm1514966oib.27.2016.11.02.19.24.45 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 02 Nov 2016 19:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 22:24:43 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <55BE887D-3E79-4B31-85D1-A6FC9A69FDAD@sn3rd.com> References: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> To: "Rose, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] NIST SP 1800-6 out for public comment X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 02:24:49 -0000 Not really DANE specific, but I gotta ask: Did I miss the reference to = RFC 7525? spt > On Nov 02, 2016, at 13:44, Rose, Scott wrote: >=20 > (sorry if you get multiple copies) >=20 > The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) and NIST have = a new Special Publication: 1800-6 on DNS-Based Secure Email out for = public comment. This project was to develop guidance and = recommendations for enterprises in deploying DANE to support SMTP over = TLS and S/MIME using SMIMEA RRs. The three part guide is on the NCCoE = website: https://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email >=20 > In short - the project was to demonstrate using DANE to support SMTP = and S/MIME using different certificate usage values (used 1-3, skipped 0 = since it was viewed as least likely to be recommended). The cert usage = values were chosen to give examples that would meet various local = security polices. >=20 > Comments welcome. The deadline for comments is Dec 15, 2016 but will = likely still be open to suggestions and comments (informally) beyond = that date. >=20 > Thanks, > Scott >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Scott Rose, NIST > scottr@nist.gov > ph: +1-301-975-8439 > Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane From nobody Thu Nov 3 06:36:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BA991299E8 for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 06:36:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I-eDwAFt2b4l for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 06:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wsget2.nist.gov (wsget2.nist.gov [IPv6:2610:20:6005:13::151]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47DCE1299E0 for ; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 06:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (129.6.18.96) by wsget2.nist.gov (129.6.13.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:35:40 -0400 Received: from postmark.nist.gov (129.6.16.94) by WSXGHUB1.xchange.nist.gov (129.6.18.96) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.485.1; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:35:47 -0400 Received: from [132.163.221.2] ([132.163.221.2]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id uA3DZWZR019562; Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:35:33 -0400 From: "Rose, Scott" To: Sean Turner Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2016 09:35:33 -0400 Message-ID: <55D491DB-BE63-4332-BACF-DD07CC7DBD02@nist.gov> In-Reply-To: <55BE887D-3E79-4B31-85D1-A6FC9A69FDAD@sn3rd.com> References: <5507CA26-ADEA-47FB-93E5-BDDEB855A832@nist.gov> <55BE887D-3E79-4B31-85D1-A6FC9A69FDAD@sn3rd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.5r5263) X-NIST-MailScanner-Information: Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] NIST SP 1800-6 out for public comment X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:36:38 -0000 No, you didn’t. It wasn’t included. I’ll read it and make sure to incorporate it in the revision round. Thanks, Scott On 2 Nov 2016, at 22:24, Sean Turner wrote: > Not really DANE specific, but I gotta ask: Did I miss the reference > to RFC 7525? > > spt > >> On Nov 02, 2016, at 13:44, Rose, Scott wrote: >> >> (sorry if you get multiple copies) >> >> The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) and NIST have >> a new Special Publication: 1800-6 on DNS-Based Secure Email out for >> public comment. This project was to develop guidance and >> recommendations for enterprises in deploying DANE to support SMTP >> over TLS and S/MIME using SMIMEA RRs. The three part guide is on the >> NCCoE website: >> https://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email >> >> In short - the project was to demonstrate using DANE to support SMTP >> and S/MIME using different certificate usage values (used 1-3, >> skipped 0 since it was viewed as least likely to be recommended). >> The cert usage values were chosen to give examples that would meet >> various local security polices. >> >> Comments welcome. The deadline for comments is Dec 15, 2016 but will >> likely still be open to suggestions and comments (informally) beyond >> that date. >> >> Thanks, >> Scott >> >> ================================== >> Scott Rose, NIST >> scottr@nist.gov >> ph: +1-301-975-8439 >> Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dane mailing list >> dane@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > ================================== Scott Rose, NIST scottr@nist.gov ph: +1-301-975-8439 Google Voice: +1-571-249-3671 From nobody Sun Nov 13 21:47:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79324127077 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:47:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SDNNBKena6Q1 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:47:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp84.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp84.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B4FC129554 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2016 21:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp11.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp11.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1DD725208 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from app25.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp11.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0F50F51F8 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:45 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: ogud@ogud.com Received: from app25.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:45 -0500 Received: from ogud.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by app25.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3932E0039 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: ogud@ogud.com, from: ogud@ogud.com) with HTTP; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 00:47:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Olafur Gudmundsson" To: "Dane WG" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20161114004744000000_99850" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html X-Auth-ID: ogud@ogud.com Message-ID: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/12.6.2-RC1 Archived-At: Subject: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 05:47:53 -0000 ------=_20161114004744000000_99850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0ADear colleagues, =0A =0AWe did the first WGLC in July 9 =0A[ https://mai= larchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIacDZM ]( https://mail= archive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIacDZM )=0AThere was so= me discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback to judge conse= nsus. =0AEditors have updated the document to reflect feedback received dur= ing the first WGLC =0A[ https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBk= gpvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7BDk ]( https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkg= pvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7BDk )=0A=0A[ https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smi= me-12 ]( https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12 )=0AWe have p= ublished a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP keys with D= ANE RFC7929=0A=0A[ https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 ]( https://www.= rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 )=0A[ https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dan= e/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE ]( https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane= /7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE )=0AMany portions of this document are similar= to RFC7929 - we realize that many people do not like the consensus in that= document, but please do not re-open that discussion here. =0AJust like RFC= 7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC.=0AThis is a second WGLC where the chairs= ask the following question =0ADo you support the publication of this docum= ent as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC? =0AThis WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UT= C =0AThe document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929.=0AThus In the= Chairs judgement: Only serious objections that do not apply to 7929. need= to be raised to prevent advancement of this ID. =0APlease state on the m= ailing list that you have reviewed the document and RFC7929 and given the c= riteria above the document is ready to be published. =0AIf you have concern= s related to the descriptions in the ID please flag those as such. =0AOlafu= r & Warren ------=_20161114004744000000_99850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear colleagues, 

=0A

 

=0A

We did the first WGLC in July 9 

=0A=0A
There was som= e discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback to judge consen= sus. 
=0A
Editors have updated the document to reflect= feedback received during the first WGLC 
=0A=0A=0AWe have published a document that relates to the experimental use= of PGP keys with DANE  RFC7929=0A
=0A

https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929=0A=0A

h= ttps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE=0A
Ma= ny portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize that many = people do not like the consensus in that document, but please do not re-ope= n that discussion here.
=0A
Just like RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL R= FC.
=0A
This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask t= he following question 
=0A
Do you support the publicat= ion of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC? 
=0A
This= WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC 
=0A
The docu= ment is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929.
=0A
Thus I= n the Chairs judgement:  Only serious objections that do not apply to = 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement of  this ID. =  
=0A
Please state on the mailing list that you have r= eviewed the document and RFC7929 and given the criteria above the docu= ment is ready to be published. 
=0A
If you have concer= ns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag those as such. =0A
Olafur & Warren 
 ------=_20161114004744000000_99850-- From nobody Mon Nov 14 15:46:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F6B4129544 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:46:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fnGvpLl2NB1 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 15:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cy1gcc01on0092.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.200.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60BB2129528 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR09MB0798; H:SN1PR09MB0797.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SN1PR09MB07975E5DD7BF9DE627D66435F0BC0SN1PR09MB0797namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Nov 2016 23:46:15.5798 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR09MB0798 Archived-At: Subject: [dane] support for draft-ietf-dane-smimea WGLC X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 23:46:20 -0000 --_000_SN1PR09MB07975E5DD7BF9DE627D66435F0BC0SN1PR09MB0797namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somehow I missed Olafur's note about the 2nd WGLC on the SMIMEA draft, but = I continue to support it. I think it is in a good enough state as a spec fo= r publication as proposed standard. The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) DANE project used t= he latest version of the SMIMEA draft. While we were not able to use any S= MIMEA-enabled MUAs in the project, we did have (and hopefully will publish)= tools that were used in the project to support deploying and using SMIMEA = RRs to support digitally signed email. The project report is still open fo= r public comment (earlier message to the group): http://nccoe.nist.gov/proj= ects/building_blocks/secured_email Scott --_000_SN1PR09MB07975E5DD7BF9DE627D66435F0BC0SN1PR09MB0797namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Somehow I missed Olafur's note about the 2nd WGLC on the SMIMEA draft, b= ut I continue to support it. I think it is in a good enough state as a spec= for publication as proposed standard.


The National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence (NCCoE) DANE project use= d the latest version of the SMIMEA draft.  While we were not able to u= se any SMIMEA-enabled MUAs in the project, we did have (and hopefully will = publish) tools that were used in the project to support deploying and using SMIMEA RRs to support digitally sig= ned email.  The project report is still open for public comment (earli= er message to the group): = http://nccoe.nist.gov/projects/building_blocks/secured_email 


Scott



--_000_SN1PR09MB07975E5DD7BF9DE627D66435F0BC0SN1PR09MB0797namp_-- From nobody Tue Nov 15 08:29:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E1F9128B37 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:29:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qsc75GdLQlbs for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x231.google.com (mail-qk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C37012941E for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id q130so141660744qke.1 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K6qIdutjK0xHVy/s65pr+2oMPOqllsvxdp9jjqip4NI=; b=vhF2tvCQWKDkk4x8QQR6ZaOVyzrAelDSVqpITXYxxn89VjDtPvVpN1EXxZO7JaAYSY h4lG6QEutOvZeEukHFkEFxPCUPrId7R3poXwo/dU8Lo2Sbjk7hA4jJReDIfgwamBXCV9 rtT1Ixrerd10qczyUa9mMTPsFzFywAeJz5XkM32LPiHK2ZmWiwiSJpvbay7IQsM0FUMh Z0G9PIi/lQJPPpLdgtvNcJgZ4Gqp5UZpHYa108jhntQgY9/sgeaoEjLg2rCGrmjtZvfK CxT+5pUnfo0DOBbN2Z+MdCGPfykjmboYKMku6Uok/NlcGOZpF+cUwIvMc8hbWurkcq7D 4XiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K6qIdutjK0xHVy/s65pr+2oMPOqllsvxdp9jjqip4NI=; b=JZCyANZQNXP2jI01eLsc5moFTdmyo/sHC6SWBB89dLdFRGfQl9dRoQlWU09SMbRNOo DR1X4+6cgLf9IR06TVaU2UGxlZQCNd/yQkdSTMm4ZWQElf1TatQ74XjZ/nx5bxGFrlda fHS45Q6KG6Q3b51NGpbPCoUXGUdEu6uZB6GXgqqyLh7SoxSVug0nKP/NV9by9GPNCrwC 6vloYaSt2mJQSvQx0tF/OquuzzPYWIV2S4YLKBFgdqw2PKvZs3P26mLqYRpmAJcDBJmT a60xPLPkMCcR7YzYPuXWDM0qoZfTdvMH24L84kEMEzMxDxjBcLQh7t4KwsCd0rBA/c9L 3JDg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvc5C5gM46nfIT49Ohc0xX3ebyLHpTYlYn6JOT2M6E7GK4ybsYhO3AiWKflWW4aapPPL4UH3WGs9WK1RIQ== X-Received: by 10.55.110.69 with SMTP id j66mr21326317qkc.92.1479227336087; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.55.135.66 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:28:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> From: Doug Montgomery Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 11:28:35 -0500 Message-ID: To: Olafur Gudmundsson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c060f2ae8e257054159737d Archived-At: Cc: Douglas Montgomery , Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:29:01 -0000 --94eb2c060f2ae8e257054159737d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support publication as an experimental RFC. We continue to pursue and support R&D efforts to develop SMIMEA based approaches to enterprise email security. Having a stable reference will benefit those efforts. dougm On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 12:47 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > > > We did the first WGLC in July 9 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIacDZM > There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback > to judge consensus. > Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received during the > first WGLC > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkgpvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7BDk > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12 > We have published a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP > keys with DANE RFC7929 > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE > Many portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize that > many people do not like the consensus in that document, but please do not > re-open that discussion here. > Just like RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC. > This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question > Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC? > This WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC > The document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929. > Thus In the Chairs judgement: Only serious objections that do not apply > to 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement of this ID. > Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the document and > RFC7929 and given the criteria above the document is ready to be publishe= d. > If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag > those as such. > Olafur & Warren > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > > --=20 DougM at Work --94eb2c060f2ae8e257054159737d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support publication as an experimental RFC. =C2=A0=C2=A0=

We continue to pursue and support R&D efforts to de= velop SMIMEA based approaches to enterprise email security. =C2=A0 Having a= stable reference will benefit those efforts.

doug= m

On M= on, Nov 14, 2016 at 12:47 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson <ogud@ogud.com>= wrote:
<= p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;font-family:arial;font-size:10pt;word-wrap:br= eak-word">Dear colleagues,=C2=A0

=C2=A0

We did the first WGLC in= July 9=C2=A0

There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback= to judge consensus.=C2=A0
Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received during th= e first WGLC=C2=A0
We have published a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP= keys with DANE =C2=A0RFC7929
Many portions of this document a= re similar to RFC7929 - we realize that many people do not like the consens= us in that document, but please do not re-open that discussion here.
Just like RFC7929, this is an EX= PERIMENTAL RFC.
This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question=C2=A0<= /div>
Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC?= =C2=A0
This WGLC will end on 28= -11-2016 at 23:59 UTC=C2=A0
The document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929.
Thus In the Chairs judgement: =C2=A0Only serious objections that do not = apply to 7929.=C2=A0need to be raised to prevent advancement of=C2=A0=C2=A0= this ID. =C2=A0
Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the document and= RFC7929 and=C2=A0given the criteria above the document is ready to be publ= ished.=C2=A0
If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag t= hose as such.=C2=A0
Olafur & Warren=C2=A0

______________________________= _________________
dane mailing list
dane@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane




--
DougM at Work
--94eb2c060f2ae8e257054159737d-- From jnaegele@grierforensics.com Tue Nov 15 09:20:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76541294D2 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 09:20:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 43L6Dl9-kLAR for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 09:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from winters.swishmail.com (winters.swishmail.com [208.72.56.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50D38128E18 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 09:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 96220 invoked by uid 89); 15 Nov 2016 17:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Tower) (jnaegele@grierforensics.com@69.140.59.45) by winters.swishmail.com with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted, authenticated); 15 Nov 2016 17:20:23 -0000 From: "Joseph Naegele" To: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 12:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00aa01d23f64$8d77bdc0$a8673940$@grierforensics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdI/ZI0YnSeqQ5CoRK6O6ZPj4S+3wA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime support X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:21:29 -0000 We at Grier Forensics also support the SMIMEA draft and look forward to = its publication. Using the draft, we've implemented DANE SMIMEA support for two MUAs: 1. A Thunderbird extension 2. An extension to Horde webmail (IMP) Both extensions use a JVM-based engine that hides the core DANE = protocols, providing a simple certificate retrieval interface, which = facilitates adding support to other MUAs. We've worked with the team = behind Bouncy Castle (leading Java crypto libraries) to integrate core = DANE SMIMEA functionality into their APIs. We intend to open source both extensions and the engine soon. Joe Naegele From nobody Tue Nov 15 14:16:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5CA129435 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:16:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VK7DrxORoTBp for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from out.west.pexch112.icann.org (pfe112-ca-2.pexch112.icann.org [64.78.40.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B5B3128E18 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from PMBX112-W1-CA-1.pexch112.icann.org (64.78.40.21) by PMBX112-W1-CA-2.pexch112.icann.org (64.78.40.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:16:16 -0800 Received: from PMBX112-W1-CA-1.pexch112.icann.org ([64.78.40.21]) by PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG ([64.78.40.21]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:16:15 -0800 From: Edward Lewis To: Dane WG Thread-Topic: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSPjqonNZS4D6mG0GY/dWZb3PMR6DbvEgA Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:16:15 +0000 Message-ID: <0AC6E8F4-11E6-468D-B640-8115024018D0@icann.org> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1b.0.161010 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [192.0.32.236] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="B_3562125374_193577515" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:16:19 -0000 --B_3562125374_193577515 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/14/16, 14:47, "Olafur Gudmundsson" wrote: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12[tools.ietf.org] I've read the document and think it adequately covers the experiment. I have one request, which is not a show stopper. The term "rainbow table" ought to have a reference to a definition of the term. (Or as is done for zone walking, a brief definition in-line.) This is to stem the introduction of new terms without clear origins, which historically nags IETF documents. (Even Wikipedia's entry for "rainbow table" has a note including a need for more precise citations. ;) ) --B_3562125374_193577515 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIH2QYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIHyjCCB8YCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC BaIwggWeMIIEhqADAgECAhAE64fxtFjS2DdV8JfouoFSMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMGUxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlVTMRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEaWdpQ2VydCBJbmMxGTAXBgNVBAsTEHd3dy5kaWdpY2Vy dC5jb20xJDAiBgNVBAMTG0RpZ2lDZXJ0IFNIQTIgQXNzdXJlZCBJRCBDQTAeFw0xNjA4MDkw MDAwMDBaFw0xOTA4MDkxMjAwMDBaMIG9MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzETMBEGA1UECBMKQ2FsaWZv cm5pYTEUMBIGA1UEBxMLTG9zIEFuZ2VsZXMxPDA6BgNVBAoTM0ludGVybmV0IENvcnBvcmF0 aW9uIGZvciBBc3NpZ25lZCBOYW1lcyBhbmQgTnVtYmVyczEeMBwGA1UEAxMVRWR3YXJkIExl d2lzIDkgQXVnIDE2MSUwIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhZlZHdhcmQubGV3aXNAaWNhbm4ub3JnMIIB IjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAxGXAQjOhBCDPz1+sGOERDMvSCFWbOUws GUrXAHLGeEAGYTCpni8f7kYPH7RMalvbep2aVtkMSUn6HR1uY84b437ZZuHCviUn7Aw6itGE wrDyq7Pb7zTlqE/1kLVhKYrHA4sjhsQRHhBHevxWbb3SYU2IMNxJd4QFgRJIp4zDmAR7bzbH 1ZazFGfo/op0QRsfcpFYmBotbj/4SnldtFwZasr7zTK9wJRSXa9sspLXtQhBe9itxTHJRg0H BH66VcPX7iRra9XFzkM5JLXOT2nBDIxeqDsLKoTkRWiNoSWoDZylAqS3BfBppwq7eremR7zD LIaPN4Tbb8TCpORMCZuvswIDAQABo4IB7zCCAeswHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAU5wIjgABP2Ne8lAvZ P3Q5STI8inkwHQYDVR0OBBYEFBiOkLRCGoHjShiTxeM3n94XHm+2MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw IQYDVR0RBBowGIEWZWR3YXJkLmxld2lzQGljYW5uLm9yZzAOBgNVHQ8BAf8EBAMCBaAwHQYD VR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMEMGA1UdIAQ8MDowOAYKYIZIAYb9bAQBAjAq MCgGCCsGAQUFBwIBFhxodHRwczovL3d3dy5kaWdpY2VydC5jb20vQ1BTMIGIBgNVHR8EgYAw fjA9oDugOYY3aHR0cDovL2NybDMuZGlnaWNlcnQuY29tL0RpZ2lDZXJ0U0hBMkFzc3VyZWRJ RENBLWcyLmNybDA9oDugOYY3aHR0cDovL2NybDQuZGlnaWNlcnQuY29tL0RpZ2lDZXJ0U0hB MkFzc3VyZWRJRENBLWcyLmNybDB5BggrBgEFBQcBAQRtMGswJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0dHA6 Ly9vY3NwLmRpZ2ljZXJ0LmNvbTBDBggrBgEFBQcwAoY3aHR0cDovL2NhY2VydHMuZGlnaWNl cnQuY29tL0RpZ2lDZXJ0U0hBMkFzc3VyZWRJRENBLmNydDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEA zhEJp9X6tm36lKKaxCdyjyETxL3oVPDmv2JHBD/T/xbqRH0vQfR34VkRnSO+5d8AqHGdhYTK 7yjB/vW52KjiQUiW9WnQFYdY5Q/Yv3cnVgi4zuuye9BPvyr87HbmJ0uafYjATnYziT71njO7 xKIQP6w0MFv8ugT/fXIZsV4NU2eGQEHhvPkR+WOt0KfFa5jEY1qXoj4iZmE21j+f0OhSTA9K EofM5chR6FCaOyomKPIYU1mcoQwcistCwfcdVhUCpmgazxn6fR89ZOOiKTXxhOHrILdO0pCI dlJ3xO6EBvFKBCOyRBkD2z7jcWm/U3GkkYBLyRMvH1Ki+q4vwKnFZjGCAf8wggH7AgEBMHkw ZTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxFTATBgNVBAoTDERpZ2lDZXJ0IEluYzEZMBcGA1UECxMQd3d3LmRp Z2ljZXJ0LmNvbTEkMCIGA1UEAxMbRGlnaUNlcnQgU0hBMiBBc3N1cmVkIElEIENBAhAE64fx tFjS2DdV8JfouoFSMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgXTAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUHR3sRvVkk3OidALt nCjPvHlHrLIwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTYx MTE1MjIxNjE0WjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQAW53IcGEljz8a3ZbcvXTlrc9rPT5IC2Xmq xVjPdAgydieqVwZLG8mq0QmZWunOkk4J3fX2lige3z9+0CN1jD1MAgrfwhosMeM5k2Riop4W mSd1fkj8Khl1MNcOpcXMIySHfrnEc6uY9Uig0+9haZkn8zRFrECJwmHINKbmU40pfOsa8XnL KQ/bwx0HHJfBBua/PB8f68bXRADg9x8WCF7CRjV56TNc8RdZWdk8IY0Hvv0o0uqOGo1tjkk4 abL3eLNtBQ5fIpolMXOHm/UetzHctazGrSvhXQ/dZ04XpGTcaOEK7fxxWGe/DgswmyAgFwuf SMoVJZZ1nLxv2vZbFU+X --B_3562125374_193577515-- From nobody Tue Nov 15 16:17:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEBE91294A6 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=secure64.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1zYgFNlbQCPf for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.secure64.com (zimbra.secure64.com [64.92.221.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B5A127076 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.secure64.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D4C460012F for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from zimbra.secure64.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.secure64.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3N92JKSLjNVB for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.secure64.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42ED600638 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 zimbra.secure64.com A42ED600638 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secure64.com; s=0530A930-37E5-11E6-BCBF-0F280349B7F6; t=1479255079; bh=0GLcjDxVwDTmIS62eNswmC9uFoGl+EOfEqhxF6EPHuc=; h=From:Content-Type:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Mime-Version; b=Ht6GYCZXtmLcGp7geC1KyDEcjpPFk2eQ2FoRu/88R5kko1tOTymCeU6jLjfXG8Ce0 fJYjfGOVykXf/0tNAXlgn45XTq1Z7NR5tG4CTjiutAAptvR3UTYQ2tMj6EzuO3L9EB /Pa3Eh2kp3zigIHsEKLv+jClCXmcJCNSPiDKjsuY= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.secure64.com Received: from zimbra.secure64.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.secure64.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 0pEU5CMl1bDw for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [172.31.253.86] (unknown [192.168.254.4]) by zimbra.secure64.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50E4660012F for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:19 -0700 (MST) From: Joseph Gersch Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6640EA99-188C-40FF-8E91-DA92674A367F"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:11:19 -0700 To: dane@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] support for draft-ietf-dane-smimea WGLC X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:17:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6640EA99-188C-40FF-8E91-DA92674A367F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8EA76BB6-35FA-4F43-8167-27D898B3DA95" --Apple-Mail=_8EA76BB6-35FA-4F43-8167-27D898B3DA95 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would like to add my support for progressing the SMIMEA draft as a = spec for publication as proposed standard. Secure64 has been an active participant in the National Cybersecurity = Center of Excellence DANE project. We have found both the use of TLSA = records and SMIMEA records to be very useful and practical The SMIMEA = draft is clear enough as it stands. As further evidence, we have = published the email certificates for all Secure64 employees at = _smimecerts.secure64.com using the = IANA RRTYPE number of 53. We have built programs to publish and = retrieve these records successfully and to convert the records back into = certificates to be placed into key-stores. All of these efforts were = successful and confirmed by email users outside of Secure64. So my = bottom line: go for it! - Joe Gersch =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - Joseph Gersch, PhD President and CEO, Secure64 Software Corporation www.secure64.com office: 970-372-0006 mobile: 970-222-4867 --Apple-Mail=_8EA76BB6-35FA-4F43-8167-27D898B3DA95 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I would like to add my support for progressing the  SMIMEA draft as a spec for publication as proposed = standard.

Secure64 has been an active participant in the National = Cybersecurity Center of Excellence DANE project.  We have found = both the use of TLSA records and SMIMEA records to be very useful and = practical  The SMIMEA draft  is clear enough as it stands. =  As further evidence, we have published the email certificates for = all Secure64 employees at _smimecerts.secure64.com using the IANA RRTYPE number = of 53.  We have built programs to publish and retrieve these = records successfully and to convert the records back into certificates = to be placed into key-stores.  All of these efforts were successful = and confirmed by email users outside of Secure64.  So my bottom = line:  go for it!

 - Joe Gersch





=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
- = Joseph Gersch, PhD
   President and CEO, = Secure64 Software Corporation
   www.secure64.com
  =  office:  970-372-0006
  =  mobile: 970-222-4867



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[IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB23F129457 for ; Wed, 16 Nov 2016 21:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 61000 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2016 05:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2016 05:43:26 -0000 Date: 9 Nov 2016 11:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20161109113201.21235.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: dane@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:43:26 -0000 This draft is still a bad idea for all the reasons I described the last time it came around. Nothing has changed. If you do publish it, I'd suggest much stronger language in the first sentence of section 9 on security considerations. The security model for S/MIME certs has always been that the trust flows from the CA to the user without involving the user's mail operator. Now the domain is the trust source for all of its users. Sometimes that's reasonable, sometimes not, and there's no way you can tell without knowing information about the domain that's not in the DNS. The fifth paragraph, on mail operator MITM attacks on user mail, is also much too weak. If the domain is a bank that is required by law to archive its employee communications, MITM is reasonable. If it's a public mail operator that uses MITM to compile dossiers of user info to sell to marketers, and to edit ads and web bugs into the messages into mail before re-encrypting them, all without user permission, it's not. If the mail is from another user on the same system, it'll re-sign the mail, too. Of course, the mail operator will assure you it's "required to be able to read everyone's encrypted email" by its business plan. R's, John From nobody Thu Nov 17 00:29:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B16B1296A2 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 00:29:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hKV8_rBT3TQj for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 00:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp92.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp92.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C8BF1296F8 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 00:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9A0C656BF; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 03:28:47 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: ogud@ogud.com Received: by smtp4.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id E711155EB; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 03:28:45 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: ogud@ogud.com Received: from [192.168.102.252] ([UNAVAILABLE]. [58.120.104.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Thu, 17 Nov 2016 03:28:47 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: Olafur Gudmundsson In-Reply-To: <20161109113201.21235.qmail@ary.lan> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:28:46 +0900 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4E3AC181-F289-4145-A868-74EAF4C49DC6@ogud.com> References: <20161109113201.21235.qmail@ary.lan> To: John Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Cc: dane@ietf.org Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 08:29:16 -0000 John, Thank you for your input we will take your textual suggestion under advisement, Thanks Olafur > On Nov 9, 2016, at 8:32 PM, John Levine wrote: > > This draft is still a bad idea for all the reasons I described the > last time it came around. Nothing has changed. > > If you do publish it, I'd suggest much stronger language in the first > sentence of section 9 on security considerations. The security model > for S/MIME certs has always been that the trust flows from the CA to > the user without involving the user's mail operator. Now the domain > is the trust source for all of its users. Sometimes that's > reasonable, sometimes not, and there's no way you can tell without > knowing information about the domain that's not in the DNS. > > The fifth paragraph, on mail operator MITM attacks on user mail, is > also much too weak. If the domain is a bank that is required by law > to archive its employee communications, MITM is reasonable. If it's a > public mail operator that uses MITM to compile dossiers of user info > to sell to marketers, and to edit ads and web bugs into the messages > into mail before re-encrypting them, all without user permission, it's > not. If the mail is from another user on the same system, it'll > re-sign the mail, too. Of course, the mail operator will assure you > it's "required to be able to read everyone's encrypted email" by its > business plan. > > R's, > John From nobody Thu Nov 17 01:10:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BED31294E4 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:10:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pd1SeeVpyuhK for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [193.110.157.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 107B2127077 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3tKFhN2Z9mz3K8 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:10:12 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1479373812; bh=VZ2FLWcDwqCfssiJrbR3W09QwJh7SF4MtIUvNl4hg+4=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=rL8ZOUptq2QPbDQS23S4CZuEYwoQBA8+jsAshrRlb1dYcQo+cq4fnB+QHma6yqfEg GgA6NsKnZoPIiwUlPzkvxXJxz6vBBnexAmifBxTNDHXFLMG5M15AIvdQ1E2kTT7e2p PdXpe5QWh0w+/X2IdxZKURb+d/bKhTGDCeTfORUo= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YdXG52naRRUv for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:10:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.139.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:10:11 +0100 (CET) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2766735A2B2; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:10:09 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 bofh.nohats.ca 2766735A2B2 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D68140DAA4D for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:10:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:10:08 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: dane WG list In-Reply-To: <20161109113201.21235.qmail@ary.lan> Message-ID: References: <20161109113201.21235.qmail@ary.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (LRH 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 09:10:16 -0000 On Wed, 9 Nov 2016, John Levine wrote: > If you do publish it, I'd suggest much stronger language in the first > sentence of section 9 on security considerations. The security model > for S/MIME certs has always been that the trust flows from the CA to > the user without involving the user's mail operator. Now the domain > is the trust source for all of its users. Sometimes that's > reasonable, sometimes not, and there's no way you can tell without > knowing information about the domain that's not in the DNS. The document states: Given that the DNS administrator for a domain name is authorized to give identifying information about the zone, it makes sense to allow that administrator to also make an authoritative binding between email messages purporting to come from the domain name and a certificate that might be used by someone authorized to send mail from those servers. If you use gmail.com, you are at the mercy of google - whether encrypted or not. those users have already given control away to google. This document is not the right place to warn them about that. Paul From nobody Thu Nov 17 01:19:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF742129661 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:19:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJT8-MVJ66Jk for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [193.110.157.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67BC91294D4 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3tKFv61kTGz3K8; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:19:30 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1479374370; bh=30KZiMXQsJbrIKCA/1kNcD3la5ljbrT04qUj0QziIfE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=qGYvTnQVWojc8jY+xIs4eBjLDsK2PbS4l9mbeEdZ7o4YQtIb9DhcMWqY/BZq4E5xh Xk/qlhk9xovstKQVLn1XQQjZzATM8NLyMNESdUm5aN6YQ/L6i+VQuupl3ghr1KHhGd TEGSpCS05p5ElrnWjK7UeJaRqtibGaH9IRtBlkoI= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ST_fFYuGR8II; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:19:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.139.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 10:19:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 271BA35A2B2; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:19:25 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 bofh.nohats.ca 271BA35A2B2 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151FE40DAA4D; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:19:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 04:19:24 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Olafur Gudmundsson , Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (LRH 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 09:19:33 -0000 On Mon, 14 Nov 2016, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question  > Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC?  A few minor changes: Section 3 uses an unnumbered list but the content of one bullet point refers to "step 2". I recommend changing this to a numbered list as in RFC7929. Additionally, this "step 2" should be "step 5", as filed with the RFC7929 errata: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=7929 (the second errata is already applied to this document) Section 10 needs to be updated to refer to RFC7929 :) I am in favour of publishing this document as an Experimental RFC. Paul From nobody Thu Nov 17 05:34:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C715712958D for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:34:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.504 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX=3.405, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CI78wUoqkcPY for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E981C12960B for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 05:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 14464 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2016 13:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 Nov 2016 13:34:34 -0000 Date: 9 Nov 2016 16:07:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20161109160754.21962.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: dane@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: paul@nohats.ca Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 13:34:35 -0000 >If you use gmail.com, you are at the mercy of google - whether encrypted >or not. those users have already given control away to google. This >document is not the right place to warn them about that. As it stands now, your first sentence is just wrong. Currently, if I publish a S/MIME certificate for my gmail address, and people encrypt mail using it, Google can't read my mail. They can throw it away of course, but if it shows up in my mailbox, only I can read it. In the other direction, only I can sign mail with my cert, and Google can't pretend to be me in an S/MIME context. This assumes that CAs that sign S/MIME certs are competent enough to check that it's me asking them to sign, which I realize is kind of optimistic, but what I've laid out is the way that S/MIME is supposed to work. This document flips that situation around so now gmail can publish MITM certs for all its users whether they like it or not. That is a big change. R's, John From nobody Thu Nov 17 06:11:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE811296D3 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 06:11:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x4NHH1pnLQWt for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 06:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm2gcc01on0116.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.201.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8B08129590 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 06:11:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=DCq19/Igc2g2frMH66wKxVEiQTy+7nV0ErGI64ZQHGA=; b=ReK3KnhveRWA0f7UHIPkIt288ApIffvfEkZBOLlQm+igctevun8+NmN5j1jdQbI4CRSjmqDs6mqrq4NJJ/A0Xb3PVO/ytlX0/CdH85Uqo5v2+AiTaJCkADsx04tbi4HE1q0wi+JWXSRhcHIHePRRj4xa5kNyQW9xgGJvfP3D548= Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.22) by DM2PR09MB0574.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.734.8; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:48 +0000 Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) by DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) with mapi id 15.01.0734.007; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:48 +0000 From: "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" To: John Levine Thread-Topic: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSPjq1S3DkWlbj20OswExOk6brCqDQfVGAgAxrAgD/8+ISAIAMcjaA Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20161109160754.21962.qmail@ary.lan> In-Reply-To: <20161109160754.21962.qmail@ary.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-ld-processed: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec,ExtAddr x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0574; 7:d2Qd4s6B0GyZL53zbI69+BFzXzM77QpHYclTm4E3PzvfkuZOVv2PZi4z2cZVTDdxhwXB0o5+/yPLnTw2rXBc9YyH0U1MolGsLuSxdUBhaFaRXsZFekai6b/hJL8fiM7fplkO5VgjhSwWlDkxLGvjvq5OR1B7K7V859r0YgYZU1sDSmE/yadH0BiMHzSjPi94e7WNavCZtamnJ3WecfqdWi20f+eGz/L5Z79zSqdrGGCxqn06CJKPZPmpX66vHspc+XwGeHCP8P3lcYkMggkke6b/5GPTzFYfN7FHbjejDYpDdgV6z2bGYDpsB1xzhtf1x806j0iq4+WmwyhYddTWDNM1m2cKbz+W6rcwKPWtaU0= x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a2d29ac4-b4e5-4ee8-62ed-08d40ef3ab62 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040281)(6060326)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(6055026)(6061324)(6041223); SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; x-forefront-prvs: 01294F875B x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(377454003)(189002)(199003)(24454002)(2900100001)(66066001)(6506003)(229853002)(50986999)(6512003)(77096005)(76176999)(7736002)(305945005)(7846002)(33656002)(81156014)(3280700002)(8936002)(106116001)(57306001)(92566002)(99286002)(105586002)(106356001)(50226002)(8676002)(81166006)(68736007)(2906002)(102836003)(82746002)(4326007)(6116002)(3846002)(97736004)(3660700001)(101416001)(83716003)(230783001)(87936001)(36756003)(122556002)(2950100002)(6916009)(86362001)(110136003)(5660300001)(189998001)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; H:DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <8F082E22E9C0944286F78BEF9D161EAE@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Nov 2016 14:11:48.0165 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR09MB0574 Archived-At: Cc: "paul@nohats.ca" , "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 14:11:52 -0000 Sm9obiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIGNvbW1lbnQuICBJdOKAmXMgYW4gaW1wb3J0YW50IGNv bmNlcm4gdGhhdCB5b3UgaGF2ZSByYWlzZWQuDQoNCkluIHlvdXIgc2NlbmFyaW8gYmVsb3csIHlv dSB3cml0ZSDigJxpZiBJIHB1Ymxpc2ggYSBTL01JTUUgY2VydGlmaWNhdGXigKbigJ0NCg0KQ2Fu IHlvdSB0ZWxsIG1lIGhvdyB5b3Ugd291bGQgcHVibGlzaCB0aGF0IFMvTUlNRSBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0 ZSwgaG93IHBlb3BsZSB3b3VsZCBmaW5kIGl0LCBhbmQgd2h5IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGJlbGlldmVk Pw0KDQpUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZXNzZW50aWFsbHkgZGVsZWdhdGVzIHRoZSBjcmVhdGlvbiBvZiBT L01JTUUgY2VydHMgdG8gdGhlIGRvbWFpbiBob2xkZXJzLiBJZiB5b3VyIGRvbWFpbiBob2xkZXIg aXMgdGhlIGtpbmQgb2YgZG9tYWluIGhvbGRlciB0aGF0IHdvdWxkIGVuZ2FnZSBpbiBhbiBlYXN5 LWRldGVjdGFibGUgTUlUTSBhdHRhY2sgc3VjaCBhcyB5b3UgZGVzY3JpYmUgYmVsb3csIHRoZW4g d2h5IGFyZSB5b3UgdXNpbmcgdGhlbSBhcyB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIHByb3ZpZGVyPw0KDQpJ4oCZbSBz dXJlIEnigJltIG1pc3Npbmcgc29tZXRoaW5nIGhlcmXigKYgIEl04oCZcyBjbGVhciB0aGF0IGRp c3RyaWJ1dGluZyBwdWJsaWMga2V5IGNlcnRpZmljYXRlcyBpcyBhIGZ1bmRhbWVudGFsIHByb2Js ZW0gd2l0aCB0aGUgUEtJIGNvbmNlcHQuIEhvdyB3b3VsZCBzb2x2ZSBpdCBzdWNoIHRoYXQgaW5k aXZpZHVhbHMgY291bGQgb2J0YWluIGNlcnRpZmljYXRlcyBmb3IgcGVvcGxlIHdpdGggd2hvbSB0 aGV5IGhhdmUgaGFkIG5vIHByZXZpb3VzIGNvbnRhY3Q/DQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNClNpbXNvbiAN Cg0KDQo+IE9uIE5vdiA5LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMTowNyBBTSwgSm9obiBMZXZpbmUgPGpvaG5sQHRh dWdoLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPj4gSWYgeW91IHVzZSBnbWFpbC5jb20sIHlvdSBhcmUgYXQg dGhlIG1lcmN5IG9mIGdvb2dsZSAtIHdoZXRoZXIgZW5jcnlwdGVkDQo+PiBvciBub3QuIHRob3Nl IHVzZXJzIGhhdmUgYWxyZWFkeSBnaXZlbiBjb250cm9sIGF3YXkgdG8gZ29vZ2xlLiBUaGlzDQo+ PiBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IHBsYWNlIHRvIHdhcm4gdGhlbSBhYm91dCB0aGF0 Lg0KPiANCj4gQXMgaXQgc3RhbmRzIG5vdywgeW91ciBmaXJzdCBzZW50ZW5jZSBpcyBqdXN0IHdy b25nLiAgQ3VycmVudGx5LCBpZiBJDQo+IHB1Ymxpc2ggYSBTL01JTUUgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgZm9y IG15IGdtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3MsIGFuZCBwZW9wbGUgZW5jcnlwdA0KPiBtYWlsIHVzaW5nIGl0LCBH b29nbGUgY2FuJ3QgcmVhZCBteSBtYWlsLiAgVGhleSBjYW4gdGhyb3cgaXQgYXdheSBvZg0KPiBj b3Vyc2UsIGJ1dCBpZiBpdCBzaG93cyB1cCBpbiBteSBtYWlsYm94LCBvbmx5IEkgY2FuIHJlYWQg aXQuICBJbiB0aGUNCj4gb3RoZXIgZGlyZWN0aW9uLCBvbmx5IEkgY2FuIHNpZ24gbWFpbCB3aXRo IG15IGNlcnQsIGFuZCBHb29nbGUgY2FuJ3QNCj4gcHJldGVuZCB0byBiZSBtZSBpbiBhbiBTL01J TUUgY29udGV4dC4gIFRoaXMgYXNzdW1lcyB0aGF0IENBcyB0aGF0DQo+IHNpZ24gUy9NSU1FIGNl cnRzIGFyZSBjb21wZXRlbnQgZW5vdWdoIHRvIGNoZWNrIHRoYXQgaXQncyBtZSBhc2tpbmcNCj4g dGhlbSB0byBzaWduLCB3aGljaCBJIHJlYWxpemUgaXMga2luZCBvZiBvcHRpbWlzdGljLCBidXQg d2hhdCBJJ3ZlDQo+IGxhaWQgb3V0IGlzIHRoZSB3YXkgdGhhdCBTL01JTUUgaXMgc3VwcG9zZWQg dG8gd29yay4NCj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZmxpcHMgdGhhdCBzaXR1YXRpb24gYXJvdW5k IHNvIG5vdyBnbWFpbCBjYW4gcHVibGlzaA0KPiBNSVRNIGNlcnRzIGZvciBhbGwgaXRzIHVzZXJz IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhleSBsaWtlIGl0IG9yIG5vdC4gIFRoYXQgaXMgYQ0KPiBiaWcgY2hhbmdlLg0K PiANCj4gUidzLA0KPiBKb2huDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBkYW5lIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBkYW5lQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGFuZQ0KDQo= From nobody Thu Nov 17 16:07:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D021295F9 for ; 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18 Nov 2016 00:07:07 -0000 Date: 18 Nov 2016 09:07:01 +0900 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Garfinkel, Simson L. \\(Fed\\)" In-Reply-To: References: <20161109160754.21962.qmail@ary.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (OSX 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1336677830-1479427624=:34265" Archived-At: Cc: "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:07:09 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1336677830-1479427624=:34265 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > Thanks for your comment. It’s an important concern that you have raised. > > In your scenario below, you write “if I publish a S/MIME certificate…” > > Can you tell me how you would publish that S/MIME certificate, how people would find it, and why it would be believed? The reason they'd belive it is that it's signed by a credible CA. That's just PKI. As far as how people would find it, there's a bunch of possibilities. The federal government has a public federated LDAP system that apparently works pretty well for people to find certs of government employees. Brian Haberman and I have a draft at draft-bhjl-x509-srv-02, and even this hack could do it (give or take the naming and scaling problems) if it published regular signed certificates rather than asserting that DNSSEC makes them trustworthy. > If your domain holder is the kind of domain holder that > would engage in an easy-detectable MITM attack such as you describe > below, then why are you using them as your email provider? Maybe you've had the same address for 20 years and don't want to change it. Maybe your provider is someone like gmail who is mostly trustworthy but you don't know what secret subpoenas they've gotten so you're not going to use a cert they provide. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly --0-1336677830-1479427624=:34265-- From nobody Thu Nov 17 16:11:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE0A128E18 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TyHPiGBjw_ME for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vk0-x232.google.com (mail-vk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8DC81296BD for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vk0-x232.google.com with SMTP id w194so155967093vkw.2 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OqHJfHlm/oOh67yVlmm31ZRo/y89Vpwm45yb/2IsO9o=; b=nSzByQPelB8aRjynATDFG6K5K3Lh3yafgamFiheuAt/ubXlCnuL9Aks21xhmbk1Ro6 VaRKfoaLLTGVqVh2sqnhZ7elArHgl4Zd7QpbMAUnnfIxy0zJ6sfRQc9HcSBcaOZNIpPo BhGrz83xE0ZPnZkozgczTyc9Mb9jaWEoV+LRw8ApG84mjChAa1iGQ8iBT3XHpTDKnBrB FdAPhKCJ6Mi+/6PxJ31kfTuEVTP4mJIkqpAvLEFMghU7Hf/8orO+HLymy6EaMWLtbOcv 9k10xK5aY1ZQMF4/y14vEt6OawGnysUOLl+NmVw98OWfT27TMMr432h2CZd46lFzcqF4 y6AA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=OqHJfHlm/oOh67yVlmm31ZRo/y89Vpwm45yb/2IsO9o=; b=O1Id2pgqg5oSpTWx/bBJGYDmEkjufM+TolxaQPUndyJowAvEOYeTCK+b3o4opKKD9S IEuMk3/ycbKoKNOcvWNxIwbb5O5mo8hFAYZ2Hk2oz89M2HH87ofzB+lDcSMI8xQXhvv1 U6Q3FsDNVR7RcPE2kOIJXAvJUnicS+MHQmoQzUv/bm5AhoGF+zmGTe0eDbQt24TjyLFO ltrno83ZHcmoIXIZxh4Vl7L4oRWBc8xpIVzxMNEjhw1qm6U418w+bbsGt7vLoK9gPLlP 162Ak8Y3inR0f93BG4EKnJZLjSkmfojgT4O1BldbdeIEYt4aOSmFPMdzmrt3qb/0AG08 A2Vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC016UdKWJ7YDrrKDp3SrBH0qdcl/ouQZ9QoPCwkWcr1WGE6n5yWXPtzZBcKfo1qouzT8XGHG1Y2gtxFC6A== X-Received: by 10.31.139.12 with SMTP id n12mr3062660vkd.100.1479427867744; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.81.106 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:11:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Allison Mankin Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 09:11:06 +0900 Message-ID: To: dane@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11437e568720340541882432 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] support for draft-ietf-dane-smimea WGLC X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:11:12 -0000 --001a11437e568720340541882432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I support this draft being approved and advanced. On 16 November 2016 at 09:11, Joseph Gersch wrote: > I would like to add my support for progressing the SMIMEA draft as a > spec for publication as proposed standard. > > Secure64 has been an active participant in the National Cybersecurity > Center of Excellence DANE project. We have found both the use of TLSA > records and SMIMEA records to be very useful and practical The SMIMEA > draft is clear enough as it stands. As further evidence, we have > published the email certificates for all Secure64 employees at _ > smimecerts.secure64.com using the IANA RRTYPE number of 53. We have > built programs to publish and retrieve these records successfully and to > convert the records back into certificates to be placed into key-stores. > All of these efforts were successful and confirmed by email users outside > of Secure64. So my bottom line: go for it! > > - Joe Gersch > > > > > > ================================ > - Joseph Gersch, PhD > President and CEO, Secure64 Software Corporation > www.secure64.com > office: 970-372-0006 > mobile: 970-222-4867 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > > --001a11437e568720340541882432 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support this draft being approved and advanced.=C2=A0=

= On 16 November 2016 at 09:11, Joseph Gersch <joe.gersch@secure64.c= om> wrote:
I would like to add my support for=C2=A0progressing = the =C2=A0SMIMEA draft as=C2=A0a spec for publication as proposed= standard.

Secure64 has been an active participant in the National Cybersec= urity Center of Excellence DANE project.=C2=A0 We have found both the use o= f TLSA records and SMIMEA records to be very useful and practical =C2=A0The= SMIMEA draft =C2=A0is clear enough as it stands.=C2=A0 As further evidence= , we have published the email certificates for all Secure64 employees at _<= a href=3D"http://smimecerts.secure64.com" target=3D"_blank">smimecerts.secu= re64.com=C2=A0using the IANA RRTYPE number of 53.=C2=A0 We have built p= rograms to publish and retrieve these records successfully and to convert t= he records back into certificates to be placed into key-stores.=C2=A0 All o= f these efforts were successful and confirmed by email users outside of Sec= ure64.=C2=A0 So my bottom line: =C2=A0go for it!

=C2=A0- Joe Gersch


=


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<= /div>
- Joseph Gersch, PhD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0President and CEO, Se= cure64 Software Corporation
=C2=A0 =C2=A0www.secure64.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= office: =C2=A0970-372-0006
=C2=A0 =C2=A0mobile: 970-222-4867
<= div>



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--001a11437e568720340541882432-- From nobody Thu Nov 17 16:33:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8031293FF for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:33:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.397 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.397 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xWQuT2Hyn1Ra for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaun.rfc1035.com (shaun.rfc1035.com [93.186.33.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A038E128E18 for ; Thu, 17 Nov 2016 16:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-87bd.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-87bd.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.135.189]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shaun.rfc1035.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADAB52421249; Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:33:04 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jim Reid In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:33:01 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> To: Paul Wouters X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: Paul Hoffman , Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 00:33:08 -0000 > On 17 Nov 2016, at 09:19, Paul Wouters wrote: >=20 > I am in favour of publishing this document as an Experimental RFC. I support publication of this document too: don't care which flavour of = RFC is chosen for it. From nobody Sun Nov 20 23:08:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D34129599 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i_ff13TAt75n for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x231.google.com (mail-io0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29906129581 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x231.google.com with SMTP id j65so32709946iof.0 for ; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2tZbZAu26gf1kFwsfXS9EuaUbuu/HS0FTciyiAyljuA=; b=nbqF+larVEUkjHfLFBSUqznk3tFxr2NQouP7oVn7O96pfRIODxpTX7pHWY4ZKiMwPY L7YN3w2PsRAPnpVf/GPUpbyepVEC/67XIoLrgM4t0BNUHCFkIKSADceeNtwG+wRoe9sx undYkInuEW0tKjtweNfwYzvg27Ky4P31L9UtV5f3SSDWfTJ4LeUTcqfGxoYE6TBOCGIz C1nmE+NXaadGsaNI/B5czIBFec/JJydEBWv0okTFBnkxmmGvUlGe93BSlKbS/13Z02eT ikGDylYSLzDVFUXjcRRoZo06uf1UWch4oinKN5hhE1G1q2t2k62vPlP+Z1Iu7nq8GDGd hZLQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2tZbZAu26gf1kFwsfXS9EuaUbuu/HS0FTciyiAyljuA=; b=l6h+U4nruP30pZHffk6Rdou/+Qt2n1bcIOvTctFuPXH5Zzseww+X2+MAo2U7zKnxLM t10KMtx+ZM2euc6Zl+038hZkd53vj4YL81gR2E6uDKCB6FIEFmDs3rfGu7oF0XrHRX0t Xdcn7lA6v9Aea9PmYE/TcJtiy4ljpacEB9Q+rVKFca1HadhEq5KZ/Fbnr/438BY252lV LmEPTfLcRFZ1DGJ31v+F3Ju8XXo983BWvJcdgx/oCGYmXmGgNSfORt0jiAfYoEIwbpuw PrGzy3Y8LV5NzMbjwtZxroziAbF5nItR6xgf+fR+Ba3XRB/YaUXYReSYU+fz4ZUfohTg Whgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00OtTdgk/yertkR7Lv0Mjaz/bzOTru4vEwc1xdxSQ6v/4kyA6FJwE8CJXzFrnkyjElKcATOt6nX2JnS9Q== X-Received: by 10.107.182.70 with SMTP id g67mr11234081iof.120.1479712105458; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.37.82 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Nov 2016 23:08:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> From: tjw ietf Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 02:08:24 -0500 Message-ID: To: Jim Reid Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114abc806a71100541ca52ec Archived-At: Cc: Paul Wouters , Paul Hoffman , Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 07:08:28 -0000 --001a114abc806a71100541ca52ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I've read this document and I support publication. I'm more inclined to publish as Experimental, but I'm not beholden to the correct flavor. tim On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:33 PM, Jim Reid wrote: > > > On 17 Nov 2016, at 09:19, Paul Wouters wrote: > > > > I am in favour of publishing this document as an Experimental RFC. > > I support publication of this document too: don't care which flavour of > RFC is chosen for it. > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > --001a114abc806a71100541ca52ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've read this document and I support publica= tion.=C2=A0

I'm more inclined to publish as Ex= perimental, but I'm not beholden to the correct flavor.=C2=A0

tim



On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:33 PM= , Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:

> On 17 Nov 2016, at 09:19, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
>
> I am in favour of publishing this document as an Experimental RFC.

I support publication of this document too: don't care which fla= vour of RFC is chosen for it.

_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane

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(Fed)" To: Dane WG Thread-Topic: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSPjq1S3DkWlbj20OswExOk6brCqDc6uoAgAD/Q4CABSV2AIAAfG6A Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:33:45 +0000 Message-ID: <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0574; 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h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=2ae7HDbbgJRt/CjfFDEjhBfyhwDkXeAwK/rNAJwtIEohYA3Uyb4ZoSwGzQgbDxsA6 upPkGF4NpK1bxwNPZuXEFcMYY1XZOoQSmkzZNiay1yQiYuHtFeYAF+9E2aVdkWoi3z GkaBTiuD7Gj2c6j+GlwmL4a/ePXgiH9try+OjPzI= To: "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" , Dane WG References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:49:08 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000503030801050807040501" Archived-At: Subject: [dane] direction of effort (was: Re: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:49:14 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000503030801050807040501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, I'm just curious... On 21/11/16 14:33, Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed) wrote: > We continue to pursue and support R&D efforts to develop SMIME-based > approaches to enterprise email security. Having a stable reference > will benefit those efforts. Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here? I know that's where we started out with smime but I'm not sure it's a useful target these days. Wouldn't it be more likely more effective if we (for some "we") tried to get the largest mail providers to provide some form(s) of interoperable e2e email security? If that happened, (*) then I suspect many more enterprises would just re-use that than would ever deploy something by/for themselves. And if we don't end up with e2e email security at the major mail providers, then it'll probably not happen within many enterprises either. (IOW, maybe the focus on enterprises as a target for e2e mail security is a bit 20-th century? :-) (*) Yes, there are a bunch of reasons why this is not at all likely to happen. However, if we direct our efforts elsewhere that is one more nail in that coffin. Cheers, S. 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A9789129A90 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:58:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NqUZJpfYLTQF for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from miucha.iecc.com (abusenet-1-pt.tunnel.tserv4.nyc4.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f06:1126::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 379991295F6 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 06:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 98937 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2016 14:58:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (64.57.183.18) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 21 Nov 2016 14:58:28 -0000 Date: 21 Nov 2016 14:58:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> From: "John Levine" To: dane@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:58:28 -0000 Hi, Simson. >To summarize the answer I received, there was concern that some email users might be using a legacy email account, not trust >their mail provider, and want the assurance of a end-to-end encryption that is asserted by a trustworthy CA. That's not really what I said. If you're going to quote me, please quote me. >I’ve thought about this response over the weekend and do not find it credible. This answer presupposes a CA system that is >not the one that we have. Most CA S/MIME providers authenticate users based on their ability to receive email at a given >address. So a hostile email provider intent on intercepting encrypted email could easily spoof even a trusted CA provider >into issuing a bogus certificate. I certainly wouldn't disagree that the current public CA system is screwed up. On the other hand, there are non-public or semi-public CAs that seem to work OK, like the DOD's. This is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But in any event, to return to my original objection, it seems quite clear that the assumption in this document is that domains are authorities for the identities of their users. It should say that in so many words rather than dancing around it. 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(Fed)" To: John Levine Thread-Topic: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSPjq1S3DkWlbj20OswExOk6brCqDc6uoAgAD/Q4CABSV2AIAAfG6AgAAGyoCAAAKMAA== Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 15:07:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> In-Reply-To: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0576; 7:RZiymGdNm6D91je6NRkuGjBxb7cijpi60hCDBsc3InTXnP0V3ms/L86aMbyXaOXaugyBhJH9Gh+cJjXhiLvA61WM7nJoQ6q55uFsrSHlWU4tKA2oNR9jTQSHk/hOfiYiyGrIptoRObEHcqPibYdeqglwLU986cMe9RD/cE5BqQ42RrEIr0jOHw/xwnleNbn1jxTxZnZJdPAYunYO0T2W2axQGsRxuH80+kOaRnEBeJRxiKyq647g4TxPAWACvVHHZYTjH7nUxHMgoE8vSOB2QBbX0pyfS0S5ufzd1dxGGTAUvDcvgUKW3ZBZ/8IbhBU/Q6i1wvOUPW+bkykLG38HQTTIsTVg94JJGNyUyf2Fs6w= x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f9b161c0-de69-4f27-6ce9-08d4122011e8 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0576; 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H:DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3C2B817D3A4D4545A46F2334C8C8EC0A@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2016 15:07:11.3439 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR09MB0576 Archived-At: Cc: "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 15:07:19 -0000 SGkgSm9obi4NCg0KSSBkaWRu4oCZdCBtZWFuIHRvIG1pc3JlcHJlc2VudCB3aGF0IHlvdSBzYWlk LiBJIHdhcyBzaW1wbHkgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIHNpbXBsaWZ5IHRoZSBhcmd1bWVudC4gIEnigJltIHNv cnJ5IGlmIEkgZ290IGl0IHdyb25nLiBIb3cgd291bGQgeW91IHJlcGhyYXNlIGl0Pw0KDQpCb3Ro IHRoZSBET0QgYW5kIHRoZSBVU0cgQ2l2aWxpYW4gQ0EgaGllcmFyY2hpZXMgd29yayBwcmV0dHkg d2VsbC4gQXBwbGXigJlzIHdvcmtzIGV4Y2VwdGlvbmFsbHkgd2VsbCwgYnV0IGZvciByZWFzb25z IHRoYXQgYXJlbuKAmXQgY2xlYXIgdG8gbWUsIHRoZXkgZG9u4oCZdCBtYWtlIGl0IGVhc3kgZm9y IG5vbi1BcHBsZSB1c2VycyB0byBvYnRhaW4gQXBwbGUgZW5kLXVzZXIgY2VydGlmaWNhdGVzLiBJ IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgREFORSwgYW5kIGluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgU01JTUVBLCBwcm9taXNlcyB0byBi ZSBhIG11Y2ggYmV0dGVyIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBmb3IgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW5nIHRoZXNlIGNlcnRpZmlj YXRlcyB0aGFuIExEQVAgaGFzIHByb3ZlbiB0byBiZS4NCg0KSSBhbSBpbiBhZ3JlZW1lbnQgd2l0 aCB5b3UgdGhhdCB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXNzdW1lcyB0aGF0IGRvbWFpbnMgYXJlIHRoZSBhdXRo b3JpdGllcyBvZiB0aGUgaWRlbnRpdGllcyBvZiB0aGVpciB1c2Vycy4gSSBjb25jdXIgdGhhdCB0 aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgc2hvdWxkIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgc3RhdGUgdGhpcy4gRW1haWwgYWRkcmVzc2Vz IGhhdmUgYmVjb21lIGFuIGlkZW50aWZpZXIgdGhhdCBpcyBpbiBtYW55IHdheXMgc3VwZXJpb3Ig dG8gb3RoZXIgaWRlbnRpZmllcnMsIHN1Y2ggYXMgU1NOcyBhbmQgRHJpdmVyIExpY2Vuc2UgI3Ms IGJlY2F1c2UgdGhleSBjYW4gYmUgcHJvdmVkIGJ5IGFuIGluZGl2aWR1YWzigJlzIGFiaWxpdHkg dG8gcmVjZWl2ZSBlbWFpbCBhdCBhIHNwZWNpZmljIGFkZHJlc3MuIEZvciB0aGUgc2FtZSByZWFz b24sIG1vYmlsZSB0ZWxlcGhvbmUgbnVtYmVycyBhcmUgYWxzbyBxdWlja2x5IGJlY29taW5nIHBl cnNpc3RlbnQgaWRlbnRpZmllcnMuICBFbWFpbCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgaGF2ZSBhbiBhZHZhbnRhZ2Ug b3ZlciBtb2JpbGUgdGVsZXBob25lIG51bWJlcnMgaW4gdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbW9yZSBvZiB0 aGVtIGFuZCB0aGV5IGFyZSBlYXNpbHkgY2hhbmdlZCBhcyBuZWNlc3NhcnkuDQoNCldvdWxkIHlv dSBzdXBwb3J0IGFkdmFuY2luZyB0aGUgZHJhZnQgaXQgaXMgZXhwbGljaXRseSBzdGF0ZWQgdGhp cyBhc3N1bXB0aW9uPw0KDQpTaW1zb24NCg0KDQo+IE9uIE5vdiAyMSwgMjAxNiwgYXQgOTo1OCBB TSwgSm9obiBMZXZpbmUgPGpvaG5sQHRhdWdoLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBIaSwgU2ltc29u Lg0KPiANCj4+IFRvIHN1bW1hcml6ZSB0aGUgYW5zd2VyIEkgcmVjZWl2ZWQsIHRoZXJlIHdhcyBj b25jZXJuIHRoYXQgc29tZSBlbWFpbCB1c2VycyBtaWdodCBiZSB1c2luZyBhIGxlZ2FjeSBlbWFp bCBhY2NvdW50LCBub3QgdHJ1c3QNCj4+IHRoZWlyIG1haWwgcHJvdmlkZXIsIGFuZCB3YW50IHRo ZSBhc3N1cmFuY2Ugb2YgYSBlbmQtdG8tZW5kIGVuY3J5cHRpb24gdGhhdCBpcyBhc3NlcnRlZCBi eSBhIHRydXN0d29ydGh5IENBLg0KPiANCj4gVGhhdCdzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgd2hhdCBJIHNhaWQu ICBJZiB5b3UncmUgZ29pbmcgdG8gcXVvdGUgbWUsIHBsZWFzZSBxdW90ZSBtZS4NCj4gDQo+IA0K Pj4gSeKAmXZlIHRob3VnaHQgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyByZXNwb25zZSBvdmVyIHRoZSB3ZWVrZW5kIGFu ZCBkbyBub3QgZmluZCBpdCBjcmVkaWJsZS4gVGhpcyBhbnN3ZXIgcHJlc3VwcG9zZXMgYSBDQSBz eXN0ZW0gdGhhdCBpcw0KPj4gbm90IHRoZSBvbmUgdGhhdCB3ZSBoYXZlLiBNb3N0IENBIFMvTUlN RSBwcm92aWRlcnMgYXV0aGVudGljYXRlIHVzZXJzIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZWlyIGFiaWxpdHkgdG8g cmVjZWl2ZSBlbWFpbCBhdCBhIGdpdmVuDQo+PiBhZGRyZXNzLiAgU28gYSBob3N0aWxlIGVtYWls IHByb3ZpZGVyIGludGVudCBvbiBpbnRlcmNlcHRpbmcgZW5jcnlwdGVkIGVtYWlsIGNvdWxkIGVh c2lseSBzcG9vZiBldmVuIGEgdHJ1c3RlZCBDQSBwcm92aWRlcg0KPj4gaW50byBpc3N1aW5nIGEg Ym9ndXMgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUuDQo+IA0KPiBJIGNlcnRhaW5seSB3b3VsZG4ndCBkaXNhZ3JlZSB0 aGF0IHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHB1YmxpYyBDQSBzeXN0ZW0gaXMNCj4gc2NyZXdlZCB1cC4gIE9uIHRo ZSBvdGhlciBoYW5kLCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm9uLXB1YmxpYyBvciBzZW1pLXB1YmxpYw0KPiBDQXMg dGhhdCBzZWVtIHRvIHdvcmsgT0ssIGxpa2UgdGhlIERPRCdzLiAgVGhpcyBpcyB0aHJvd2luZyBv dXQgdGhlDQo+IGJhYnkgd2l0aCB0aGUgYmF0aHdhdGVyLg0KPiANCj4gQnV0IGluIGFueSBldmVu dCwgdG8gcmV0dXJuIHRvIG15IG9yaWdpbmFsIG9iamVjdGlvbiwgaXQgc2VlbXMgcXVpdGUNCj4g Y2xlYXIgdGhhdCB0aGUgYXNzdW1wdGlvbiBpbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGlzIHRoYXQgZG9tYWlu cyBhcmUNCj4gYXV0aG9yaXRpZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBpZGVudGl0aWVzIG9mIHRoZWlyIHVzZXJzLiAg SXQgc2hvdWxkIHNheSB0aGF0IGluDQo+IHNvIG1hbnkgd29yZHMgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gZGFuY2lu ZyBhcm91bmQgaXQuICANCj4gDQo+IFIncywNCj4gSm9obg0KDQo= From nobody Mon Nov 21 08:17:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BEF129472 for ; 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21 Nov 2016 16:17:20 -0000 Date: 21 Nov 2016 11:17:16 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Garfinkel, Simson L. \\(Fed\\)" In-Reply-To: References: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (OSX 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-504509057-1479745037=:18423" Archived-At: Cc: "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:17:20 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-504509057-1479745037=:18423 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > I didn’t mean to misrepresent what you said. I was simply trying to > simplify the argument. I’m sorry if I got it wrong. How would you > rephrase it? There's all sorts of reasons you wouldn't want your mail provider to read your mail. As I said in an example, Gmail is mostly reliable but we don't know what secret subpoenas they might get. > I am in agreement with you that the document assumes that domains are the authorities of the identities of their users. I concur that the document should explicitly state this. Email addresses have become an identifier that is in many ways superior to other identifiers, such as SSNs and Driver License #s, because they can be proved by an individual’s ability to receive email at a specific address. For the same reason, mobile telephone numbers are also quickly becoming persistent identifiers. Email addresses have an advantage over mobile telephone numbers in that there are more of them and they are easily changed as necessary. > > Would you support advancing the draft it is explicitly stated this assumption? No. It has other fatal flaws, discussed at length in the past. Better key distribution is a fine idea, but this isn't the way to do it. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly --0-504509057-1479745037=:18423-- From nobody Mon Nov 21 08:31:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8072E129480 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:31:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rdXfiqpMCNEq for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cy1gcc01on0132.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.200.132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19BC71294DF for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:31:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=mgOCEUNGdXV2MDfmc1Si51Rv9RWt6I5O53pPNdgwH78=; b=mFM53r+sKkAjTmDqa3FYyMZ5S6Ikl9kOr7isaT4NTwu/0MJggUr5xkUXwhi/rg1ck5J3y/OhCkeib15cuyO0kOGGsaQBYiQZ0lvFVWlGij1FGl6wWK1BraDe9UnjcigAQWzWoYjuPLwxdxtbMZjrsG/V7y60Lz1uyyaBj1hceWs= Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.22) by DM2PR09MB0574.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.734.8; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:31:49 +0000 Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) by DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) with mapi id 15.01.0734.007; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:31:49 +0000 From: "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSPjq1S3DkWlbj20OswExOk6brCqDc6uoAgAD/Q4CABSV2AIAAfG6AgAAGyoCAAAKMAIAAE5YAgAAEEAA= Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:31:49 +0000 Message-ID: <9277E9AD-E28A-43C1-9044-B439630D25C1@nist.gov> References: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0574; 7:qyK/h/z36aOSX6TJDsjSZPKbZW1ZgVeJGrEAXPJ5FceDc4TiS8H5YGnfmi+lXiNqRJBICVOfWrJhpDjYbT15oOiBnIpIaPz9xf7wEL+YothfHTca0onGNfhisO6N9E6hGlt2Ucm+xQ3ABIxctCNEfvIPftTYsWmANFkiwDBrrsVbWdHAfGmbrmPhebo2gwilqlR2BVvdl7ttErxMxFe0tpd13MyyACoiqS8EjFE5INRzMPO1ZBbjd2U5FXMShIqZVnS8nAEyv/SoouCJKdKQ3vlQ+HOq5cbSHYI1ogalmabWqsV6eJoRqpMPJIQmfXHUvCp7YV/9DJi75PiXPNulhopd0Ld1Ut7yY21QOLRxO10= x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d6782510-c0df-4a3a-593a-08d4122be4a1 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; 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H:DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1EB368EADD8739438A0DFD85D5223701@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2016 16:31:49.1723 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR09MB0574 Archived-At: Cc: "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:31:53 -0000 Sm9obiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbi4NCg0KU28gYXJlIHlvdSBvcHBv c2VkIHRvIERBTkUgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCwgb3IganVzdCB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIERBTkUgZm9yIGVtYWls Pw0KDQpHaXZlbiB0aGlzIG9wcG9zaXRpb24sIGFyZSB5b3Ugb3Bwb3NlZCB0byB0aGUgZXhwZXJp bWVudGFsIFJGQyA3OTI5PyAgT3IgaXMgeW91ciBvcHBvc2l0aW9uIGxpbWl0ZWQgdG8gU01JTUVB Pw0KDQpTaW1zb24NCg0KDQoNCj4gT24gTm92IDIxLCAyMDE2LCBhdCAxMToxNyBBTSwgSm9obiBS IExldmluZSA8am9obmxAdGF1Z2guY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+PiBJIGRpZG7igJl0IG1lYW4g dG8gbWlzcmVwcmVzZW50IHdoYXQgeW91IHNhaWQuIEkgd2FzIHNpbXBseSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gc2lt cGxpZnkgdGhlIGFyZ3VtZW50LiAgSeKAmW0gc29ycnkgaWYgSSBnb3QgaXQgd3JvbmcuIEhvdyB3 b3VsZCB5b3UgcmVwaHJhc2UgaXQ/DQo+IA0KPiBUaGVyZSdzIGFsbCBzb3J0cyBvZiByZWFzb25z IHlvdSB3b3VsZG4ndCB3YW50IHlvdXIgbWFpbCBwcm92aWRlciB0byByZWFkIHlvdXIgbWFpbC4g IEFzIEkgc2FpZCBpbiBhbiBleGFtcGxlLCBHbWFpbCBpcyBtb3N0bHkgcmVsaWFibGUgYnV0IHdl IGRvbid0IGtub3cgd2hhdCBzZWNyZXQgc3VicG9lbmFzIHRoZXkgbWlnaHQgZ2V0Lg0KPiANCj4+ IEkgYW0gaW4gYWdyZWVtZW50IHdpdGggeW91IHRoYXQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGFzc3VtZXMgdGhh dCBkb21haW5zIGFyZSB0aGUgYXV0aG9yaXRpZXMgb2YgdGhlIGlkZW50aXRpZXMgb2YgdGhlaXIg dXNlcnMuIEkgY29uY3VyIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHNob3VsZCBleHBsaWNpdGx5IHN0YXRl IHRoaXMuIEVtYWlsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyBoYXZlIGJlY29tZSBhbiBpZGVudGlmaWVyIHRoYXQgaXMg aW4gbWFueSB3YXlzIHN1cGVyaW9yIHRvIG90aGVyIGlkZW50aWZpZXJzLCBzdWNoIGFzIFNTTnMg YW5kIERyaXZlciBMaWNlbnNlICNzLCBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZXkgY2FuIGJlIHByb3ZlZCBieSBhbiBp bmRpdmlkdWFs4oCZcyBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIHJlY2VpdmUgZW1haWwgYXQgYSBzcGVjaWZpYyBhZGRy ZXNzLiBGb3IgdGhlIHNhbWUgcmVhc29uLCBtb2JpbGUgdGVsZXBob25lIG51bWJlcnMgYXJlIGFs c28gcXVpY2tseSBiZWNvbWluZyBwZXJzaXN0ZW50IGlkZW50aWZpZXJzLiAgRW1haWwgYWRkcmVz c2VzIGhhdmUgYW4gYWR2YW50YWdlIG92ZXIgbW9iaWxlIHRlbGVwaG9uZSBudW1iZXJzIGluIHRo YXQgdGhlcmUgYXJlIG1vcmUgb2YgdGhlbSBhbmQgdGhleSBhcmUgZWFzaWx5IGNoYW5nZWQgYXMg bmVjZXNzYXJ5Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBXb3VsZCB5b3Ugc3VwcG9ydCBhZHZhbmNpbmcgdGhlIGRyYWZ0 IGl0IGlzIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgc3RhdGVkIHRoaXMgYXNzdW1wdGlvbj8NCj4gDQo+IE5vLiAgSXQg aGFzIG90aGVyIGZhdGFsIGZsYXdzLCBkaXNjdXNzZWQgYXQgbGVuZ3RoIGluIHRoZSBwYXN0LiBC ZXR0ZXIga2V5IGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiBpcyBhIGZpbmUgaWRlYSwgYnV0IHRoaXMgaXNuJ3QgdGhl IHdheSB0byBkbyBpdC4NCj4gDQo+IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+IEpvaG4gTGV2aW5lLCBqb2hubEB0YXVn aC5jb20sIFRhdWdoYW5ub2NrIE5ldHdvcmtzLCBUcnVtYW5zYnVyZyBOWQ0KPiBQbGVhc2UgY29u c2lkZXIgdGhlIGVudmlyb25tZW50IGJlZm9yZSByZWFkaW5nIHRoaXMgZS1tYWlsLiBodHRwczov L2psLmx5DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Nov 21 08:35:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED696129678 for ; 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21 Nov 2016 16:35:52 -0000 Date: 21 Nov 2016 11:35:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Garfinkel, Simson L. \\(Fed\\)" In-Reply-To: <9277E9AD-E28A-43C1-9044-B439630D25C1@nist.gov> References: <20161121145803.79462.qmail@ary.lan> <9277E9AD-E28A-43C1-9044-B439630D25C1@nist.gov> User-Agent: Alpine 2.11 (OSX 23 2013-08-11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Cc: "dane@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:35:52 -0000 > So are you opposed to DANE in general, or just the use of DANE for email? I expect that the rest of the DANE group is not eager to have these issues hashed over again, so please read the extensive discussions in the archives. DANE for host certs is fine. DANE for e-mail addresses has multiple problems. > Given this opposition, are you opposed to the experimental RFC 7929? Or is your opposition limited to SMIMEA? Again, please read the archives. R's, John From nobody Mon Nov 21 08:55:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23781129590 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:55:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cXIcRJQoD3Uh for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59FB6129570 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 08:55:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4677; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1479747310; x=1480956910; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=F60pZflisk5IsAL1eEegWtQVy7fVvUl3qd0vFvXbxPA=; b=RmNMsWtOZFvrkwKHMOFyYshNgTTe5HmUS8XNUP5NBMIgYClQMEn99jwE 4xSGv2x6DBsUlNcFy8r8FYSJ5D3Q7fTmPkixJgcI/D+PIM1yNnxWOIs0t RROcM8IESqyVtPa/TgTUQ6dQ7oc4f36rP4cSBB4DfJ7uCRUJBrQoy3auk I=; X-Files: signature.asc : 496 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AJAwAeJjNY/4cNJK1dGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBgzgBAQEBAR9YLFSNP5VrAQEBAQEBBQGBGAEDlG6CBR0LhXkCggM/FAE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQEBAQEBAWIohGkBAQQBAQFrGwsYJwcnHxETBgIBAYhpDq0Hi0wBAQEHAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?RUJBYVygkcIglWFFYUVBYElAY5BimQCg1aBenKKNYFwhHeDHIYkjV+ECx43cz0?= =?us-ascii?q?vgnscgX1SiFEBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.31,528,1473120000"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="176101758" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 21 Nov 2016 16:55:09 +0000 Received: from [64.101.72.26] ([64.101.72.26]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id uALGt8T3024468 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:55:09 GMT To: dane@ietf.org References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> From: Matt Miller Message-ID: <3b750ae1-5618-7f82-60d0-3d32194c1bee@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 09:55:08 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="b3mAtk8U3EVJvX4VSrRsCr2rJ6MBWlfOf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2016 16:55:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --b3mAtk8U3EVJvX4VSrRsCr2rJ6MBWlfOf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="qA5qvkH0LjCpceRlEFuA80JOifbPegFQU"; protected-headers="v1" From: Matt Miller To: dane@ietf.org Message-ID: <3b750ae1-5618-7f82-60d0-3d32194c1bee@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: --qA5qvkH0LjCpceRlEFuA80JOifbPegFQU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As an experiment, I think this document is fine to move forward with. One minor point, though. In Section 9. "Security Considerations", third paragraph, it states in part: """ The MTA must deliver the message as-is, or encrypt the message before delivering. """ That reads as contradictory, and given the nature of this document, I suspect that the "must" is supposed to be a "might" or "should". - m&m Matt Miller Cisco Systems, Inc. On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 12:47 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson > wrote: >=20 > Dear colleagues,=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > We did the first WGLC in July 9=20 >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIac= DZM > > There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough > feedback to judge consensus.=20 > Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received > during the first WGLC=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkgpvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7= BDk > >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12 > >=20 > We have published a document that relates to the experimental use o= f > PGP keys with DANE RFC7929 >=20 > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 > >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiw= sLE > > Many portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize > that many people do not like the consensus in that document, but > please do not re-open that discussion here. > Just like RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC. > This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question=20 > Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL = RFC?=20 > This WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC=20 > The document is =93equivalent=94 to RFC7929. > Thus In the Chairs judgement: Only serious objections that do not > apply to 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement of this ID= =2E =20 > Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the documen= t > and RFC7929 and given the criteria above the document is ready to b= e > published.=20 > If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please > flag those as such.=20 > Olafur & Warren=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > DougM at Work >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane >=20 --qA5qvkH0LjCpceRlEFuA80JOifbPegFQU-- --b3mAtk8U3EVJvX4VSrRsCr2rJ6MBWlfOf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJYMybsAAoJEDWi+S0W7cO1f1MH/0cOQmbMgEN5SnnXNfGmUwH+ jvl1OUiKLnVKJbn1zW8Ewz4MW+F1ZGMoVEC0GoW6PIecyU9wUKJWLfNPDM/EtYSz wzbc1DtYlCZRLdQDn3SyaxCCBRRsX7kesKsJafDnFIZ1vivhVzDZ+F5Xedm1shRj RP2EGroh8LhPXwHzmKOsUqE67SaukKsLxEH+/00R3UbgDAr0uSsjJC9oY+t4mBzy GuRXcPBnWSZT7tZat5bTFhBCEDorno2Rvcy5Eq+ufXV7BBu67gAysqm7nbohEMqT QF3THzGHGxjdxn3gl8Mj9YrQFUplWRcEF3Y4rJ5FcCc27pVAmp4F56IwcH4OWYY= =wWfl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --b3mAtk8U3EVJvX4VSrRsCr2rJ6MBWlfOf-- From nobody Mon Nov 21 23:49:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26D6129462 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2016 23:49:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.31,531,1473076800"; d="scan'208";a="116441019" X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED X-Ironport-Source: 10.6.3.2 - Outgoing - Outgoing Received: from smtp.uoa.auckland.ac.nz (HELO uxcn13-tdc-a.UoA.auckland.ac.nz) ([10.6.3.2]) by mx4-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 22 Nov 2016 20:49:01 +1300 Received: from uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz (10.6.2.5) by uxcn13-tdc-a.UoA.auckland.ac.nz (10.6.3.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 20:49:01 +1300 Received: from uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([10.6.2.25]) by uxcn13-ogg-d.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([10.6.2.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 20:49:01 +1300 From: Peter Gutmann To: Stephen Farrell , "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" , Dane WG Thread-Topic: [dane] direction of effort (was: Re: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) Thread-Index: AQHSRAZz2J+CkyqGx0OZrjaEkhHHgKDkoYbX Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:49:01 +0000 Message-ID: <1479800937363.16186@cs.auckland.ac.nz> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov>, <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort (was: Re: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:49:10 -0000 Stephen Farrell writes:=0A= =0A= >Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here?=0A= =0A= That's about the only environment where it's feasible to deploy S/MIME.=0A= =0A= That's not intended as a snarky reply, it's serious. You set up an S/MIME= =0A= gateway to deal with it, and all of the tech issues are handled by the=0A= sysadmins without the users having to get involved.=0A= =0A= The protocol for user-level email encryption is called STARTTLS.=0A= =0A= Peter.=0A= From nobody Tue Nov 22 02:05:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D677129D1F for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 02:05:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-hb2W7o88R5 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 02:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62DED129CEF for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 02:04:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08F81BE49; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:04:31 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24z8GwIt9tdj; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:04:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.210] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CCF7BE38; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:04:28 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1479809068; bh=JGYxzGAJoZDygU5u2mneAe4brf6sPRMXahUVROO6lWY=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=2pBzs03vNKA4LPsgRd0uHeQlQi79kQ02u2B9NGQCj9TzOqvL4nqUHbSJD8QBdXRyt weMxqs+yfW/9lw1Ccat1Di7ug6hajM4PQdCB3yWeRRiEyOZPSZAie+9eqLhZ+DIMhZ BMjSDN3JyGwfcCByDg4JCHv55lvcK8MZ7KSOS4hU= To: Peter Gutmann , "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" , Dane WG References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> <1479800937363.16186@cs.auckland.ac.nz> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:04:28 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1479800937363.16186@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms020707070707040307040804" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 10:05:10 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020707070707040307040804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/11/16 07:49, Peter Gutmann wrote: > Stephen Farrell writes: >=20 >> Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here? >=20 > That's about the only environment where it's feasible to deploy S/MIME.= Sure. And yet smime is only deployed in a tiny fraction of enterprises and probably only used in a smallish fraction of the mail sent in those. >=20 > That's not intended as a snarky reply, it's serious. You set up an S/M= IME > gateway to deal with it, and all of the tech issues are handled by the > sysadmins without the users having to get involved. >=20 > The protocol for user-level email encryption is called STARTTLS. >=20 Today, yes. One might argue to just give up on e2e email security, but as long as we're still willing to tilt at that windmill (and I am;-) then it's not at all clear to me that a focus on enterprise deployments is a sensible target. It was a sensible target (that we missed) 20 years ago, but not today. Cheers, S. > Peter. >=20 --------------ms020707070707040307040804 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CvIwggUIMIID8KADAgECAhBPzaE7pzYviUJyhmHTFBdnMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHUxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBTdGFydENvbSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTEjMCEGA1UEAxMaU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwHhcNMTYwMjA5MDkyODE1WhcNMTcwMjA5MDkyODE1WjBOMSIwIAYDVQQDDBlzdGVw aGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxA Y3MudGNkLmllMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAtuC0rYze/2JinSra C9F2RjGdQZjNALLcW9C3WKTwYII3wBslobmHuPEYE5JaGItmzuKnAW619R1rD/kfoNWC19N3 rBZ6UX9Cmb9D9exCwYIwVuSwjrCQWGxgCtNQTrwKzCCpI790GRiMTvxvO7UmzmBrCaBLiZW5 R0fBjK5Yn6hUhAzGBkNbkIEL28cLJqH0yVz7Kl92OlzrQqTPEts5m6cDnNdY/ADfeAX18c1r 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dPdu1Woa4HBM for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 858751295B9 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.73] (50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id uAMFqJH5077946 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:52:20 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163] claimed to be [10.32.60.73] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Stephen Farrell" Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:52:32 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> <1479800937363.16186@cs.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.5r5263) Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 15:52:42 -0000 On 22 Nov 2016, at 2:04, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > On 22/11/16 07:49, Peter Gutmann wrote: >> Stephen Farrell writes: >> >>> Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here? >> >> That's about the only environment where it's feasible to deploy >> S/MIME. > > Sure. And yet smime is only deployed in a tiny fraction > of enterprises and probably only used in a smallish > fraction of the mail sent in those. How do you measure that? And, more importantly, why is it relevant to the DANE WG? If some other effort creates a usable e2e mail encryption system, they keying might be able to be DANEized at that point. --Paul Hoffman From nobody Tue Nov 22 08:23:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC2F1296AE for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SLwTSqYS-45z for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15B8D12968B for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B8CBE39; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:23:25 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rwe6kRoGfNxQ; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:23:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.210] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7F0FBE32; Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:23:21 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1479831802; bh=mqpMHetC8rPejsGFLm5q95TAy1kUQmGUzDKUMdjGZUI=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=QeASTQgbB+yMHJ2heyj585xpLEX5H1See7379P89qGdfZfzEz6c7py4/Qc2CqiHMI oth5dCz4B03aqY1fmEL2Rvzp3z/vnnBsN1JqH1gQ4Qf+iF21d6I0UasgMbtsD7f1xx 3kaIPiIhltoYWk8NJyDt1C67z0TePEpjjxhJb3VE= To: Paul Hoffman References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> <1479800937363.16186@cs.auckland.ac.nz> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <5c39fdad-0f78-a494-5176-b1bb2b1f9822@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:23:22 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms010005060208040707090707" Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2016 16:23:31 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010005060208040707090707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22/11/16 15:52, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On 22 Nov 2016, at 2:04, Stephen Farrell wrote: >=20 >> >> On 22/11/16 07:49, Peter Gutmann wrote: >>> Stephen Farrell writes: >>> >>>> Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here? >>> >>> That's about the only environment where it's feasible to deploy S/MIM= E. >> >> Sure. And yet smime is only deployed in a tiny fraction >> of enterprises and probably only used in a smallish >> fraction of the mail sent in those. >=20 > How do you measure that?=20 I've not. But I suspect it's roughly accurate. Data would be good if someone has any. > And, more importantly, why is it relevant to > the DANE WG?=20 It's not directly relevant for this document nor for any current dane document, hence my changing the subject line when asking Simson about his statement that that was their main interest in this experiment. > If some other effort creates a usable e2e mail encryption > system, they keying might be able to be DANEized at that point. Sure. But I'm only asking about why they (NIST I guess) think a focus on enterprise uses of smime is a good target, I wasn't suggesting any particular action. 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ie0Nu9nTd3fR for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 03:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp84.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp84.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE00D1294E1 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 03:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp27.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp27.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3305C25107 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 06:17:20 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: ogud@ogud.com Received: by smtp27.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id 0BD8A24932 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 06:17:16 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: ogud@ogud.com Received: from [10.20.30.43] (pool-71-191-33-181.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.191.33.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Thu, 24 Nov 2016 06:17:20 -0500 From: Olafur Gudmundsson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_43546605-3955-43B9-8995-477D36D79CD8" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 06:17:28 -0500 References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> To: dane WG list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Subject: [dane] Fwd: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 11:17:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_43546605-3955-43B9-8995-477D36D79CD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Reminder the WGLC ends on the 28=E2=80=99th. We have had civil discussion on this potentially explosive topic and I = want to thank all for that.=20 thanks Olafur > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: "Olafur Gudmundsson" > Subject: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime > Date: November 14, 2016 at 12:47:44 AM EST > To: "Dane WG" >=20 > Dear colleagues,=20 > =20 > We did the first WGLC in July 9=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIacDZM = > There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough = feedback to judge consensus.=20 > Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received during = the first WGLC=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkgpvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7BDk = > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12 = >=20 > We have published a document that relates to the experimental use of = PGP keys with DANE RFC7929 > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 = >=20 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE = > Many portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize = that many people do not like the consensus in that document, but please = do not re-open that discussion here. > Just like RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC. > This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question=20 > Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL = RFC?=20 > This WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC=20 > The document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929. > Thus In the Chairs judgement: Only serious objections that do not = apply to 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement of this ID. =20 > Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the document = and RFC7929 and given the criteria above the document is ready to be = published.=20 > If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag = those as such.=20 > Olafur & Warren=20 > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane --Apple-Mail=_43546605-3955-43B9-8995-477D36D79CD8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Reminder the WGLC ends on the 28=E2=80=99th.
We = have had civil discussion on this potentially explosive topic and I want = to thank all for that. 

thanks
Olafur


Begin forwarded message:

From: = "Olafur Gudmundsson" <ogud@ogud.com>
Subject: = [dane] Second = WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime
Date: = November 14, 2016 at 12:47:44 = AM EST
To: = "Dane WG" <dane@ietf.org>

Dear = colleagues, 

 

We did the = first WGLC in July = 9 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bv= vIacDZM
There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive = enough feedback to judge consensus. 
Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback = received during the first WGLC 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkgpvJA0kHG0u-= Q_o7BDk

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12

We = have published a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP = keys with DANE  RFC7929

https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-Vyl= SXiwsLE
Many = portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize that many = people do not like the consensus in that document, but please do not = re-open that discussion here.
Just like = RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC.
This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following = question 
Do = you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL = RFC? 
This WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 = UTC 
The= document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929.
Thus In the Chairs judgement:  Only serious objections = that do not apply to 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement = of  this ID.  
Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the = document and RFC7929 and given the criteria above the document is = ready to be published. 
If = you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag = those as such. 
Olafur & = Warren 
_______________________________________________dane mailing list
dane@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane

= --Apple-Mail=_43546605-3955-43B9-8995-477D36D79CD8-- From nobody Thu Nov 24 07:31:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA2B129631 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c68BkUUoKuiv for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wj0-x235.google.com (mail-wj0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c01::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FB6312963B for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wj0-x235.google.com with SMTP id v7so36132031wjy.2 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1cktkbunTaN7a1f+zXEd7fq7yg1v0lihr+CG74rGpY0=; b=sX/p7RORcgSnzPsLrx2+bsYuTXejUoWBDubdSOBD0C+9m2YSIIIXQ2OoiNze5fA50w rAibal8gpvnNljN0uv9qdMrwq4lEkOh8MWCYUKU3gnn99nX29bhqcxhNsFKfLJtl7gg2 ZfVtBjs6BBUrD5EfNPWSZIa0xWG8TSmFD6idU2wu00fN4bOMNyoAabAk20t/oMTWWdNj ydz4w201/n3AGr2ABaXjyrPuJvD7CvmBlj1Ac6gCPkqsoupmgFhnOxPjiQ3lJ9uDMJs5 z2clayKvmhvpPpiHHwp/syvtJMlaoPhjvSCCsVbEigg1DPH2XVNnUx/CQrz1pFCFKBch TTyw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1cktkbunTaN7a1f+zXEd7fq7yg1v0lihr+CG74rGpY0=; b=bAywQue/HAx7j9Lz3hn3Ljws7ycnErYbFHjgEDMwekIWOmV9RbFw90p+sJiEBXlJDq eiXgkG0HAUwmAnMXdgctRapDIBRaRU4p6SXcRsdtjYw4puwr0YxUFZJ/FGhaQvkcoeMT EzrmADSk+XBJaO28d+29wES45jUzZMMR+KwQGZLP0MWuBfMsV7MYdkoED7R1Y1RJdvDF zxT7m+uW5nD1DQdvh4WVh4Y4RSvpt0BH4vHItQMR4ccdwERifjsk5FXMv19yBc8sbce/ 0FkiDDh7s+D5/EmIRUAlOfng7VXGV/cUvh24MRf0zMQyiBxDLps0FpCNV3DHKgALjMOP W9gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02QBj0w7MbKMw2cLdYGb6Gt516Pi+LL1CIU0TzgqL3brdTxKwcfOHNI6hFuRny0nUOpj4jkxEjVSqCnVA== X-Received: by 10.194.116.66 with SMTP id ju2mr2793007wjb.223.1480001508963; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.109.201 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:31:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> From: Shumon Huque Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:31:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Olafur Gudmundsson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1130d266357ba105420db410 Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] Fwd: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:31:53 -0000 --001a1130d266357ba105420db410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have read this document and support its publication as an experimental RFC. Shumon Huque On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > Reminder the WGLC ends on the 28=E2=80=99th. > We have had civil discussion on this potentially explosive topic and I > want to thank all for that. > > thanks > Olafur > > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *"Olafur Gudmundsson" > *Subject: **[dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime* > *Date: *November 14, 2016 at 12:47:44 AM EST > *To: *"Dane WG" > > Dear colleagues, > > > We did the first WGLC in July 9 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/AjUjw-EXbSt3nlEqt-bvvIacDZM > There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback > to judge consensus. > Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received during the > first WGLC > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/lu5PGEBkgpvJA0kHG0u-Q_o7BDk > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-12 > We have published a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP > keys with DANE RFC7929 > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7929 > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dane/7hRc1QDlP-i__415-VylSXiwsLE > Many portions of this document are similar to RFC7929 - we realize that > many people do not like the consensus in that document, but please do not > re-open that discussion here. > Just like RFC7929, this is an EXPERIMENTAL RFC. > This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question > Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC? > This WGLC will end on 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC > The document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929. > Thus In the Chairs judgement: Only serious objections that do not apply > to 7929. need to be raised to prevent advancement of this ID. > Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the document and > RFC7929 and given the criteria above the document is ready to be publishe= d. > If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag > those as such. > Olafur & Warren > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > > > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > > --001a1130d266357ba105420db410 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have read this document and support its publication as a= n experimental RFC.

Shumon Huque


On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Olafur Gudmundsson <ogud@ogud.com&= gt; wrote:
Reminder the WGLC ends on the 28=E2=80=99th.
We have had c= ivil discussion on this potentially explosive topic and I want to thank all= for that.=C2=A0

thanks
Olafur

<= div>
Begin forwarded message:

From: "Olafur Gudmundsson"= ; <ogud@ogud.com&= gt;
Subject: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime
Date: Novemb= er 14, 2016 at 12:47:44 AM EST
To: "Dane WG" <dane@ietf.org>
<= br>
Dear colleagues,=C2=A0

=C2=A0

We did the first WGLC in July 9=C2=A0
There was some discussion but the chairs did not receive enough feedback= to judge consensus.=C2=A0
Editors have updated the document to reflect feedback received during th= e first WGLC=C2=A0
We have published a document that relates to the experimental use of PGP= keys with DANE =C2=A0RFC7929
Many portions of this document a= re similar to RFC7929 - we realize that many people do not like the consens= us in that document, but please do not re-open that discussion here.
Just like RFC7929, this is an EX= PERIMENTAL RFC.
This is a second WGLC where the chairs ask the following question=C2=A0<= /div>
Do you support the publication of this document as an EXPERIMENTAL RFC?= =C2=A0
This WGLC will end on = 28-11-2016 at 23:59 UTC=C2=A0
The document is =E2=80=9Cequivalent=E2=80=9D to RFC7929.
Thus In the Chairs judgement: =C2=A0Only serious objections that do not = apply to 7929.=C2=A0need to be raised to prevent advancement of=C2=A0=C2=A0= this ID. =C2=A0
Please state on the mailing list that you have reviewed the document and= RFC7929 and=C2=A0given the criteria above the document is ready to be publ= ished.=C2=A0
If you have concerns related to the descriptions in the ID please flag t= hose as such.=C2=A0
Olafur & Warren=C2=A0
_____= __________________________________________
dane mailing list
dane@ietf.org
https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane


________________________________________= _______
dane mailing list
dane@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane


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(Fed)" To: Olafur Gudmundsson , dane WG list Thread-Topic: [dane] Fwd: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSRkReVhFnJwfkn0mHVoa+bUU6WqDsrXGA Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2016 15:57:06 +0000 Message-ID: <13928650-83B3-4D48-AA87-510382B26D04@nist.gov> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [68.33.77.56] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cc8b3f13-31b7-4e86-440a-08d416de099e x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0576; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0576; 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Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7652D129580 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 04:48:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m-Pi_78nznSs for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 04:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpde01.smtp.sap-ag.de (smtpde01.smtp.sap-ag.de [155.56.68.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0BC2129F00 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 04:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail07.wdf.sap.corp (mail04.sap.corp [194.39.131.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtpde01.smtp.sap-ag.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3tS6141w4kz1HTB; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:48:24 +0100 (CET) X-purgate-ID: 152705::1480337304-0000521C-FBB9960F/0/0 X-purgate-size: 1566 X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate-type: clean X-SAP-SPAM-Status: clean Received: from ld9781.wdf.sap.corp (ld9781.wdf.sap.corp [10.21.82.193]) by mail07.wdf.sap.corp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3tS6132Sw8zGp08; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:48:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by ld9781.wdf.sap.corp (Postfix, from userid 10159) id 49C2A1A59E; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:48:23 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: To: Stephen Farrell Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:48:23 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL125 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <20161128124823.49C2A1A59E@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp> From: mrex@sap.com (Martin Rex) Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: mrex@sap.com List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:48:30 -0000 Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Peter Gutmann wrote: >> >> Stephen Farrell writes: >> >>> Is there a particular reason to try focus on enterprises here? >> >> That's about the only environment where it's feasible to deploy S/MIME. > > Sure. And yet smime is only deployed in a tiny fraction > of enterprises and probably only used in a smallish > fraction of the mail sent in those. I don't think that there exists an implementation of S/MIME that can be reasonably deployed _anywhere_. S/MIME defines PDUs and PDU semantics. Those specs are OK for basic interop. The problem isn't with S/MIME itself, but with how S/MIME typically involves PKIX for certificates and certificate chains and the private key associated with your own cert. What I'm seeing in S/MIME implementations is that S/MIME signatures in archived EMails typically start failing within a year after archival. I have a number of archived EMails from failed attempts to use S/MIME in the enterprise, and they all fail signature validation today, although there was no data corruption, and none of the signer certs have been revoked. In addition, there are a small number of messages that I can no longer open, because renewal/replacement of my user's private key & cert was "managed" in the enterprise setting, and the old/expired PKI credentials weren't kept around by that foolish "enterprise solution". Personally, I'm not aware of an S/MIME solution that works reasonably with archived S/MIME-protected EMails. -Martin From nobody Mon Nov 28 05:55:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E6F129574 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 05:54:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EC3CX7fVcLDg for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 05:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm2gcc01on0116.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.201.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A726129405 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 05:54:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=NQHxWWJiMrvAicO9CxN7JebQ3ZNb8pjoTo07bBz2Ey8=; b=2Vmr6i+8aSIQ5heiVR5OKsfo5hNCVyxoPbDCAUgwKVWvQeHuofo3jyi/V3rxu/j7PNsol8PUlGnLAcAPl2bhPE6mfQjj8huFQUIAL5XcM+LoV/iT28BZzvP7Pq3FtsgHhasp8JG1fLaQxP6mWDzRDQwQKw3ErqGJ+Uv04G5ZBn0= Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.22) by DM2PR09MB0574.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.747.13; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:54:55 +0000 Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) by DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) with mapi id 15.01.0747.015; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:54:55 +0000 From: "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" To: "mrex@sap.com" Thread-Topic: S/MIME (was: Re: [dane] direction of effort) Thread-Index: AQHSSX8A6kY/M1bnFEiB/7I07xakfw== Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: <95551E98-EF78-438A-A9E0-F4838F8B8FCD@nist.gov> References: <20161128124823.49C2A1A59E@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp> In-Reply-To: <20161128124823.49C2A1A59E@ld9781.wdf.sap.corp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cd64dfe4-9615-4c40-1ee7-08d417962299 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0574; 7:v66NGHcpW2hQpgh3H/zC10DGhyKAIqCiOfOQZJyloA2ijwlwMS2ZpnDv86VEcAQJ+SgZ0ugjvrpRZ6qvWAHAUEpdKZ3j4rMCzL+uGcjr1j8eJafnas//xw1N+siz3dhDzzXhP/CeMFsqFBECKeW1MHbI6MB53BcerJVs9E3vw4XxKU50RbupPYG4QSX+0CU3K09He6wZxh4IjLASMiLCQAvemTnXJYRtfkR12Ul+g5pVyI+8tI6aZ0XnEQ5Xs+njpZM8j6ge+gmDxYtn2ClSbzgCuDn/tX7mOWwpieW23bbalPTgbIFic5Cut1JJB+r9WSp+yMFPpIQ24I/y7xCujHSpRlUtlke8UsOBowb+nDeiLHl0M4JV6tlsgzi3mDiD7QHu9awEu/7CsyhCp2e+0RvoiJOz/ABKjmXJhsaJ8aHvkUEJ6E+823LsMu/1z+r/Qp09VXW8b0Hm3fLHhbWJkw== x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(32856632585715)(192374486261705)(55761251573089); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6060326)(6040361)(6045199)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026)(6041248)(6061324)(20161123560025)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(20161123562025); SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; x-forefront-prvs: 01401330D1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(377454003)(199003)(189002)(24454002)(39450400002)(68736007)(122556002)(3846002)(77096006)(57306001)(102836003)(82746002)(4326007)(6486002)(86362001)(39380400001)(39410400001)(39400400001)(38730400001)(81166006)(6116002)(8936002)(2501003)(36756003)(50226002)(2906002)(5640700001)(8676002)(81156014)(1730700003)(83716003)(3660700001)(8666005)(105586002)(2950100002)(6916009)(76176999)(50986999)(5660300001)(3280700002)(106356001)(110136003)(106116001)(6512003)(33656002)(66066001)(101416001)(7846002)(97736004)(99286002)(189998001)(92566002)(2900100001)(305945005)(6506003)(2351001)(7736002)(7059030)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0574; H:DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <94D54C3880B64345960D3B95EE627230@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Nov 2016 13:54:55.7374 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR09MB0574 Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: [dane] S/MIME (was: Re: direction of effort) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:54:59 -0000 SGkgTWFydGluLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgZW1haWwuDQoNCknigJl2ZSBiZWVuIHVzaW5n IFMvTUlNRSB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIFVTIEdvdmVybm1lbnQgc2luY2UgMjAwNi4gV2UgaGF2ZSBhbiBp bnRlZ3JhdGVkIFBLSSB0aGF04oCZcyBiYXNlZCBvbiBoYXJkd2FyZSB0b2tlbnMuIFRoZSBleHBl 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RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YL2Q41BlcHko for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 06:14:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm2gcc01on0108.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.201.108]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAA5C12943A for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 06:14:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=/N87omSfJFBFHnc4QfVOHOqFbQ5cPoJv/LTGgUgrt50=; b=lH5X8yz/9ruxo72LF46RpyvXerh8gZCM60FNkPboTnigk/QdQPCuT1NtcWwbemNjfCYqYAxieM61ZKjUcHoLhOKrWdBAj4g3Y+aQCijiLBTxdQHwKmCl4MeQm0aGaWrpUv2nB2Ki0YBU6cKWVGUAzMLiSnezMF/+r6lkAjWh4yE= Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.22) by DM2PR09MB0575.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.161.252.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.747.13; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:14:43 +0000 Received: from DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) by DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.161.252.22]) with mapi id 15.01.0747.015; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:14:43 +0000 From: "Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed)" To: Stephen Farrell Thread-Topic: direction of effort (was: Re: [dane] Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) Thread-Index: AQHSRAZt9Pum0+YyrUeybB16hmqAOaDwDc4A Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:14:43 +0000 Message-ID: <9548FA7F-B229-458B-B739-B1083FBC4028@nist.gov> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=simson.garfinkel@nist.gov; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [129.6.84.113] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b9270019-5635-4fb3-760a-08d41862111b x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(22001);SRVR:DM2PR09MB0575; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR09MB0575; 7:bd8WdDwUM1wI80AZdBCGoolPWbiNJyRnCfKq3yKQ9pqNZpH80JMC5Qe8NjJ9jR2MSP3VU+ZmIXK8AXIh58aiNUu9xPtyxLswEyAsJBaanB3kxUKiBhst0IMCqF8atK8WKcL6vhtZUXrDaVo2cexJW5a5Bl16le1enemLnKClI5dbl+BC9iUasf+GiUXux/G8SBPQn7ERefDWM5W8hVNtjJ4/0mySIdwSQTUYkSkBFVg3t499eXGmQfORl/oMZwsqPgfh49Gg6rScGNg2BtHQXSMKMxsbn9FamR/a34QjumE4OOLQOeyIaPBCTvXUS/kI61mLStFeeBP7yxo74j1fPE1QjHB1UyydVEKmD3+E8RpIteIUV1uLg2AxxhaKCvjGtj0BlId14HZszWd9wHTLQcKpLR7gDqj1LLOFveemvYGAvQFxjSCMh/Cd1yoZ17GPY0SEii8QvPKqPCIkgg5QVg== x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(32856632585715)(192374486261705); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6060326)(6040361)(6045199)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046)(6055026)(6041248)(6061324)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(20161123560025)(20161123555025); SRVR:DM2PR09MB0575; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0575; x-forefront-prvs: 01415BB535 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(7916002)(199003)(377454003)(189002)(51914003)(24454002)(102836003)(6116002)(6506003)(229853002)(81156014)(6512003)(38730400001)(122556002)(81166006)(4326007)(8936002)(82746002)(3846002)(8676002)(86362001)(83716003)(6486002)(97736004)(39400400001)(33656002)(39410400001)(39450400002)(39380400001)(77096006)(57306001)(2906002)(7736002)(305945005)(189998001)(7846002)(3280700002)(3660700001)(36756003)(66066001)(2900100001)(106356001)(50986999)(76176999)(99286002)(5660300001)(92566002)(106116001)(105586002)(50226002)(110136003)(68736007)(6916009)(230783001)(2950100002)(101416001)(93886004)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR09MB0575; H:DM2PR09MB0576.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nist.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <013D4D7C6FF99F4E8D4E44E721C2243F@namprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Nov 2016 14:14:43.6867 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR09MB0575 Archived-At: Cc: Dane WG Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort (was: Re: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:14:46 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIGVtYWlsLiAgTXVjaCBvZiB0aGUgREFORS1y ZWxhdGVkIHdvcmsgdGhhdCBJ4oCZdmUgYmVlbiBkb2luZyBhdCBOSVNUIGlzIGZvY3VzZWQgb24g dGhlIGVudGVycHJpc2Ugb2YgdGhlIFVTIEdvdmVybm1lbnQuIEhvd2V2ZXIgeW91IGFyZSBjb3Jy ZWN0LCB0aGUgREFORSBwcm90b2NvbHMgY291bGQgYWxzbyBiZSB1c2VkIGZvciBlbmFibGUgaW50 ZXJvcGVyYWJsZSBlMmUgZW1haWwgc2VjdXJpdHkgZm9yIGNvbnN1bWVycy4gVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0 aGUgcmVtaW5kZXIuDQoNCg0KDQo+IE9uIE5vdiAyMSwgMjAxNiwgYXQgOTo0OSBBTSwgU3RlcGhl biBGYXJyZWxsIDxzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBI aXlhLA0KPiANCj4gSSdtIGp1c3QgY3VyaW91cy4uLg0KPiANCj4gT24gMjEvMTEvMTYgMTQ6MzMs IEdhcmZpbmtlbCwgU2ltc29uIEwuIChGZWQpIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gV2UgY29udGludWUgdG8gcHVy c3VlIGFuZCBzdXBwb3J0IFImRCBlZmZvcnRzIHRvIGRldmVsb3AgU01JTUUtYmFzZWQNCj4+IGFw cHJvYWNoZXMgdG8gZW50ZXJwcmlzZSBlbWFpbCBzZWN1cml0eS4gICBIYXZpbmcgYSBzdGFibGUg cmVmZXJlbmNlDQo+PiB3aWxsIGJlbmVmaXQgdGhvc2UgZWZmb3J0cy4NCj4gDQo+IElzIHRoZXJl IGEgcGFydGljdWxhciByZWFzb24gdG8gdHJ5IGZvY3VzIG9uIGVudGVycHJpc2VzDQo+IGhlcmU/ IEkga25vdyB0aGF0J3Mgd2hlcmUgd2Ugc3RhcnRlZCBvdXQgd2l0aCBzbWltZSBidXQNCj4gSSdt IG5vdCBzdXJlIGl0J3MgYSB1c2VmdWwgdGFyZ2V0IHRoZXNlIGRheXMuIFdvdWxkbid0IGl0DQo+ IGJlIG1vcmUgbGlrZWx5IG1vcmUgZWZmZWN0aXZlIGlmIHdlIChmb3Igc29tZSAid2UiKSB0cmll ZA0KPiB0byBnZXQgdGhlIGxhcmdlc3QgbWFpbCBwcm92aWRlcnMgdG8gcHJvdmlkZSBzb21lIGZv cm0ocykNCj4gb2YgaW50ZXJvcGVyYWJsZSBlMmUgZW1haWwgc2VjdXJpdHk/IElmIHRoYXQgaGFw cGVuZWQsICgqKQ0KPiB0aGVuIEkgc3VzcGVjdCBtYW55IG1vcmUgZW50ZXJwcmlzZXMgd291bGQg anVzdCByZS11c2UgdGhhdA0KPiB0aGFuIHdvdWxkIGV2ZXIgZGVwbG95IHNvbWV0aGluZyBieS9m b3IgdGhlbXNlbHZlcy4gQW5kIGlmDQo+IHdlIGRvbid0IGVuZCB1cCB3aXRoIGUyZSBlbWFpbCBz ZWN1cml0eSBhdCB0aGUgbWFqb3IgbWFpbA0KPiBwcm92aWRlcnMsIHRoZW4gaXQnbGwgcHJvYmFi bHkgbm90IGhhcHBlbiB3aXRoaW4gbWFueQ0KPiBlbnRlcnByaXNlcyBlaXRoZXIuIChJT1csIG1h eWJlIHRoZSBmb2N1cyBvbiBlbnRlcnByaXNlcw0KPiBhcyBhIHRhcmdldCBmb3IgZTJlIG1haWwg c2VjdXJpdHkgaXMgYSBiaXQgMjAtdGggY2VudHVyeT8gOi0pDQo+IA0KPiAoKikgWWVzLCB0aGVy ZSBhcmUgYSBidW5jaCBvZiByZWFzb25zIHdoeSB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdA0KPiBhdCBhbGwgbGlrZWx5 IHRvIGhhcHBlbi4gSG93ZXZlciwgaWYgd2UgZGlyZWN0IG91ciBlZmZvcnRzDQo+IGVsc2V3aGVy ZSB0aGF0IGlzIG9uZSBtb3JlIG5haWwgaW4gdGhhdCBjb2ZmaW4uDQo+IA0KPiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+ IFMuDQo+IA0KPiBQUzogSSd2ZSBub3RoaW5nIGFnYWluc3QgdGhlIHBsYW5uZWQgZXhwZXJpbWVu dCBoZXJlLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Nov 29 12:17:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BF01294F9 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:17:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zNPNcV5bFdQR for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp116.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp116.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.116]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99D081294B9 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:17:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp39.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp39.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8F6516B02 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:17:20 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: ogud@ogud.com Received: by smtp39.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: ogud-AT-ogud.com) with ESMTPSA id 7794569DA for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:17:19 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: ogud@ogud.com Received: from [10.20.30.43] (pool-71-191-33-181.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.191.33.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:17:20 -0500 From: Olafur Gudmundsson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1CF12BAF-59DD-412B-A182-6B014E17D953" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Message-Id: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:17:19 -0500 To: dane WG list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Subject: [dane] Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 20:17:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1CF12BAF-59DD-412B-A182-6B014E17D953 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The WGLC has concluded. The chairs thank the wg contributers that took the time to review the document. The chairs see a strong consensus for advancing the document (after some minor changes). The changes needed in the document are: Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow table" Paul Wouters: pointed out few minor textual issues ==>fix Matt Miller: pointed out contractiction in Security consideratins ==> fix Once these changes have been made, the new version will be advanced to the IESG. Thanks to all who participated Olafur & Warren --Apple-Mail=_1CF12BAF-59DD-412B-A182-6B014E17D953 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
The = WGLC has concluded. The chairs thank the wg contributers that = took
the time to review the document.

The chairs see a strong consensus for = advancing the document (after
some minor changes).

The changes needed in the document = are:
Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow = table"

Paul = Wouters: pointed out few minor textual issues =3D=3D>fix

Matt Miller: pointed out contractiction = in Security consideratins =3D=3D> fix

Once these changes have been made, the = new version will be advanced to
the IESG.

Thanks to all who = participated

Olafur = & Warren

= --Apple-Mail=_1CF12BAF-59DD-412B-A182-6B014E17D953-- From nobody Tue Nov 29 15:35:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA5C2129442 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:35:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gm8Jkz7imMKX for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mournblade.imrryr.org (mournblade.imrryr.org [38.117.134.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57169129527 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mournblade.imrryr.org (Postfix, from userid 1034) id F149C284EAD; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:35:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:35:01 +0000 From: Viktor Dukhovni To: dane@ietf.org Message-ID: <20161129233501.GO26244@mournblade.imrryr.org> References: <1479102464.995918272@apps.rackspace.com> <42510095-2182-422E-8A47-1EF3181B16F3@nist.gov> <1d348f05-ab84-ada8-a8fd-9fba59f2c2b1@cs.tcd.ie> <9548FA7F-B229-458B-B739-B1083FBC4028@nist.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <9548FA7F-B229-458B-B739-B1083FBC4028@nist.gov> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] direction of effort (was: Re: Second WGLC draft-ietf-dane-smime) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: dane@ietf.org List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:35:06 -0000 On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 02:14:43PM +0000, Garfinkel, Simson L. (Fed) wrote: > Thanks for your email. Much of the DANE-related work that I�ve been doing > at NIST is focused on the enterprise of the US Government. However you > are correct, the DANE protocols could also be used for enable interoperable > e2e email security for consumers. Thanks for the reminder. It would be nice to see a few "real" .gov domains with TLSA records for SMTP. At present only dnsops.gov seems to have TLSA records, and ironically with a WoSign/StartCom certificate... -- Viktor. dnsops.gov. IN MX 10 monitor.dnsops.gov. dnsops.gov. IN MX 10 snip1v6.dnsops.gov. _25._tcp.monitor.dnsops.gov. IN TLSA 3 0 1 1d97435ab70152d4de428f9a24f36e80dc1d455dee183505a61be02553ff4f1c ; passed _25._tcp.snip1v6.dnsops.gov. IN TLSA 3 0 1 1d97435ab70152d4de428f9a24f36e80dc1d455dee183505a61be02553ff4f1c ; ? snip1v6.dnsops.gov. IN AAAA 2610:20:6005:100:0:0:0:203 ; Connection refused Subject = CN=monitor.dnsops.gov,C=US Issuer = CN=StartCom Class 1 DV Server CA,OU=StartCom Certification Authority,O=StartCom Ltd.,C=IL Inception = 2016-10-12T17:02:00Z Expiration = 2019-10-12T17:02:00Z DNS = monitor.dnsops.gov _25._tcp.monitor.dnsops.gov. IN TLSA 3 1 1 d46a41adc0402b80e5706f32bc4ad4cbe30f25a73b54c54b427378a6375e5ad5 From nobody Tue Nov 29 15:51:52 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietf.org Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B484129CDE; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:51:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.38.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148046350749.11646.9988681698279221929.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:51:47 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: dane@ietf.org Subject: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-13.txt X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:51:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities of the IETF. Title : Using Secure DNS to Associate Certificates with Domain Names For S/MIME Authors : Paul Hoffman Jakob Schlyter Filename : draft-ietf-dane-smime-13.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2016-11-29 Abstract: This document describes how to use secure DNS to associate an S/MIME user's certificate with the intended domain name, similar to the way that DANE (RFC 6698) does for TLS. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dane-smime/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dane-smime-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 29 15:52:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D645F129CD4 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9BMmToCxNimS for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:52:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4952129CE2 for ; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:52:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.81] (50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id uATNptog023330 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Nov 2016 16:51:57 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163] claimed to be [10.32.60.81] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Olafur Gudmundsson" Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:52:15 -0800 Message-ID: <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5310) Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:52:24 -0000 On 29 Nov 2016, at 12:17, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > The WGLC has concluded. The chairs thank the wg contributers that took > the time to review the document. > > The chairs see a strong consensus for advancing the document (after > some minor changes). > > The changes needed in the document are: > Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow table" Unfortunately, I could find no good reference other than "see Wikipedia". The one earlier RFC that talked about rainbow tables had no reference for them. > Paul Wouters: pointed out few minor textual issues ==>fix Fixed. > Matt Miller: pointed out contractiction in Security consideratins ==> > fix Fixed. > Once these changes have been made, the new version will be advanced to > the IESG. Thanks! > Thanks to all who participated Ditto! From nobody Wed Nov 30 04:59:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0EE91295C9 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:59:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g2BvNvk9-3Zf for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from out.west.pexch112.icann.org (pfe112-ca-1.pexch112.icann.org [64.78.40.7]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E59EC1294CA for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:59:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from PMBX112-W1-CA-1.pexch112.icann.org (64.78.40.21) by PMBX112-W1-CA-2.pexch112.icann.org (64.78.40.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:59:44 -0800 Received: from PMBX112-W1-CA-1.pexch112.icann.org ([64.78.40.21]) by PMBX112-W1-CA-1.PEXCH112.ICANN.ORG ([64.78.40.21]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 04:59:44 -0800 From: Edward Lewis To: Paul Hoffman Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [dane] Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime Thread-Index: AQHSSpupDMLkZu6g6EKScAnEv1PsXqDxfgW1 Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:59:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com>, <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] [EXTERNAL] Re: Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:59:48 -0000 Sent from aomething with no kybosrd.=20 > On Nov 29, 2016, at 18:52, Paul Hoffman wrote: >=20 >> On 29 Nov 2016, at 12:17, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: >>=20 >> The changes needed in the document are: >> Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow table" >=20 > Unfortunately, I could find no good reference other than "see Wikipedia".= The one earlier RFC that talked about rainbow tables had no reference for = them. There's a reference given in that Wikipedia document. I'd paste it here but= I'm on bus using a phone. ;). That referenced paper should be mentioned.=20 From nobody Wed Nov 30 06:22:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587A612951F for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:22:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.497] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OA1Az-RopUG for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6430512987B for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3tTN0r2h3dz3Wp; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:22:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1480515756; bh=HnMsIrMDVjkoA8HI8p/xXam9PSu9JztsmMSNFCnvtLo=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=jMe02yQv3nzQ2osB/5Co+uis6/rdrq+vWVenJqYNxxFZpgfhmtKYf/03GzwtDD1hb MEw9NWKvG+LRzLPMtp+KWXkSVaScFXudVEaTSmY7xWaQkP7h370ssn29uOqbu9qyCD h/92uQXSPPLzM2quwbkzrLxnR2pmAQJ1KF624cuI= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NtEO2SdnUKyO; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:22:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.139.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:22:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 70A5B31ED97; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:22:32 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 bofh.nohats.ca 70A5B31ED97 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECCB40DAA3C; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:22:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:22:32 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> Message-ID: References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (LRH 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:22:41 -0000 On Tue, 29 Nov 2016, Paul Hoffman wrote: >> Paul Wouters: pointed out few minor textual issues ==>fix > > Fixed. https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dane-smime-13 Couldn't retrieve file 2 (http://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-dane-smime-13.txt) - please check the URL.. Seems like the diff tools are borken? Paul From nobody Wed Nov 30 06:33:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5BE1297EE for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dp8Ov3gFIMK9 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ua0-x22a.google.com (mail-ua0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED36F1295B8 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ua0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 51so214692205uai.1 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UVXfmsrsMVQ8ma8U3CcsJ31UQ0vvaR/+qGmZi4fm/Os=; b=AaMLFY0YEjSYKfVv87IBa1pmYimhF6aITmm6WaqAKCgp44xrS6zE4K2183t0pHaJRG TmijbuvVqMacu+BRFrGdgY5P37L5+M3ZFxat61u4EQpb3BipmpIjPlWTh+ffzVb6XSrb zq6YFL9UeLGaonIi7a3cOlTYWFbWdFsbZywfY/BJ/CohoBNjC2DjH5DESonskDqyxrXH tV3DBooHAfxrleYaIYydxFLmPs9H+UBEqUYOYzmtlIx9YVXuxxzmfpX7eynNfoFjHEfP ogbnYhlzTwF+FmwBz4pSFtjUH1QLsD4iaWEu2n3rovNGXMBJ7RZShu/H01u4jiKp6L2m mv8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UVXfmsrsMVQ8ma8U3CcsJ31UQ0vvaR/+qGmZi4fm/Os=; b=TX4C8UoGH59jF8BioyV44x54Xr/ZT101DOWf3/zR8b0nPeaSSJzWWXdRkJpw5kQfhK scaHsRqTxWGfLJvSPcXEM2UBYM7gSVhUs63Nm36i7gGkl5YoBiDvAe+qbLBqkovErWYY k1Km3vII0HR5bYKaLG75Asg/yQyZCiU2n4RqSrLe/Www/zrhh/EgrFsi39WgEo1TDMsE eGbbLhiy826i6Cs/Jr8uGDiIwapYIhW/GveISoxi9USTohQpwhdp25yrvOn5GS5Nsf9f RFPCYFlFLzoqHEYrX9nZ8xaMFUPwMFi+YPEJwJ5n03V1Jg6VmWqMAxoDfcnvsvk1TC/Q KSkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC03ik3Yu22fP4PurKALvdJ9SMrWVfW1txDy2C7vOUo9AJH1fzOmcYSMcf6PJhl09831RfCOUESiIFm5vTw== X-Received: by 10.159.38.228 with SMTP id 91mr24809361uay.102.1480516413069; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.34.55 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 06:33:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> From: Allison Mankin Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:33:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: Edward Lewis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c04769ee2a27d05428596ea Archived-At: Cc: Paul Hoffman , dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] [EXTERNAL] Re: Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:33:42 -0000 --94eb2c04769ee2a27d05428596ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I think this reference might work as an early archival discussion of rainbow tables for efficient hash breaking: www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2003/CRYPTO/1615/1615.ps By P. Oechslin On 30 November 2016 at 07:59, Edward Lewis wrote: > > > Sent from aomething with no kybosrd. > > > On Nov 29, 2016, at 18:52, Paul Hoffman wrote: > > > >> On 29 Nov 2016, at 12:17, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote: > >> > >> The changes needed in the document are: > >> Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow table" > > > > Unfortunately, I could find no good reference other than "see > Wikipedia". The one earlier RFC that talked about rainbow tables had no > reference for them. > > There's a reference given in that Wikipedia document. I'd paste it here > but I'm on bus using a phone. ;). That referenced paper should be mentioned. > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane > --94eb2c04769ee2a27d05428596ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think this reference might work as an early archival = discussion of rainbow tables for efficient hash breaking:


www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2003/CRYPTO/1615/1615.ps=

By P. Oechslin



On 30 No= vember 2016 at 07:59, Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org> wrote:


Sent from aomething with no kybosrd.

> On Nov 29, 2016, at 18:52, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Nov 2016, at 12:17, Olafur Gudmundsson wrote:
>>
>> The changes needed in the document are: >> Ed Lewis: requested a link to a reference for "rainbow table&= quot;
>
> Unfortunately, I could find no good reference other than "see Wik= ipedia". The one earlier RFC that talked about rainbow tables had no r= eference for them.

There's a reference given in that Wikipedia document. I'd pa= ste it here but I'm on bus using a phone. ;). That referenced paper sho= uld be mentioned.

_______________________________________________
dane mailing list
dane@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane

--94eb2c04769ee2a27d05428596ea-- From nobody Wed Nov 30 08:56:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietf.org Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E54128AB0; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:56:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148052499486.2904.15343970579127283832.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:56:34 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: dane@ietf.org Subject: [dane] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dane-smime-14.txt X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:56:36 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities of the IETF. Title : Using Secure DNS to Associate Certificates with Domain Names For S/MIME Authors : Paul Hoffman Jakob Schlyter Filename : draft-ietf-dane-smime-14.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2016-11-30 Abstract: This document describes how to use secure DNS to associate an S/MIME user's certificate with the intended domain name, similar to the way that DANE (RFC 6698) does for TLS. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dane-smime/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dane-smime-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-dane-smime-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Nov 30 08:57:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3D61294C3 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:57:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[none] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BdsCIN2bo_Fb for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.proper.com (Opus1.Proper.COM [207.182.41.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66E0512957F for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.32.60.133] (50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.proper.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id uAUGv57g097273 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 30 Nov 2016 09:57:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.proper.com: Host 50-1-51-163.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.1.51.163] claimed to be [10.32.60.133] From: "Paul Hoffman" To: "Allison Mankin" Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 08:57:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3C468942-EBF6-482D-A129-C7E171D0D76A@vpnc.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5310) Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] [EXTERNAL] Re: Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 16:57:38 -0000 On 30 Nov 2016, at 6:33, Allison Mankin wrote: > I think this reference might work as an early archival discussion of > rainbow tables for efficient hash breaking: > > > www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2003/CRYPTO/1615/1615.ps Thanks, this looks fine. We have updated the draft. --Paul Hoffman From nobody Wed Nov 30 10:14:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176671298D2 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:14:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MOApghBlGcXV for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x22c.google.com (mail-qk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0452D1298B9 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id x190so218493543qkb.0 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:14:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=FYiXz8Jkgp99BUrM5wJAPys+0b4XEgZdC6VpqkB7SrE=; b=t9BiEnlMlvj2VfI+BlDH004MgwIUaPOFYx00A3Fkleoz17S4ECX3bdceqxwJ1ApR9P a/4xW9GTCNsFO4jV6fsmWKiqnFcTem7/2EmJwsj9pHN6yWdU8/DFUk6AoPh6GWggnAv6 jHSJ65YI+rNVTnuHw0DMBFLFFPKWBtXvycR8R3XBHbbdQYV4wk0vGo13Xf5LiBDLLKjM QMs7p1tKYgj8apQJfU5UYUe9HGA1QwMpL7YawxtvddMINaD1pLZXuMnmKdf8IZDwTTLT elVCI10G4AQdcufsc7alEZoM9GRyNHlQ60RVvDu8mEDe+TacKnZ42mjxXRfvEKEzDBoG OyZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=FYiXz8Jkgp99BUrM5wJAPys+0b4XEgZdC6VpqkB7SrE=; b=f7PCaOK44T664n6mxWvVoqLcPa6TNErl+HtoKS2J8uBSm9OOdt8f8CpQOmDL6k9swP CWkbyHF851bZPKIzqve8jHplOMzUDslopwV4glV9YVgxaoPUV7N+Xk5jNV6/eTcNd0fV 0+SfuZ9jXJX8bf8xyHai5acwCv93K4BierK8PuwTXy9P48mk14IvmAQAqwqQQVcj4FuR uj9GyeNziuLHZ411tEMDfueOLAcIH/5EpqxrpPkgRitfsLSV8GhnAnSzE5fdAIV6aqbt uCsksow2GyBNXYreI3F7zdl2peD3nx4ExwFKupRAcE0ZMayUdpkGjh2dGmeT9jiK2p+P bLHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02zp5ejWF2dAtWl+uNN3GL+7ANrJjfvZBvCXi1oIb3pxA7nogf7MI+LyOQkbwP/Uw71X8/tKTCboFQ14FVj X-Received: by 10.55.118.65 with SMTP id r62mr33067257qkc.21.1480529652893; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:14:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.146.16 with HTTP; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:13:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3C468942-EBF6-482D-A129-C7E171D0D76A@vpnc.org> References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> <3C468942-EBF6-482D-A129-C7E171D0D76A@vpnc.org> From: Warren Kumari Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:13:42 -0500 Message-ID: To: Paul Hoffman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] [EXTERNAL] Re: Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:14:16 -0000 On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On 30 Nov 2016, at 6:33, Allison Mankin wrote: > >> I think this reference might work as an early archival discussion of >> rainbow tables for efficient hash breaking: >> >> >> www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2003/CRYPTO/1615/1615.ps > > Thanks, this looks fine. We have updated the draft. Thank you Paul, and everyone else for finding refernces, etc. W > > --Paul Hoffman > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Wed Nov 30 18:22:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F7D12956B for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:22:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nohats.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a_nsE9WZcOMp for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx.nohats.ca (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:2a03:6000:1004:1::68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD29F129407 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 18:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3tTgyq23FJz9xm; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 03:21:55 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nohats.ca; s=default; t=1480558915; bh=//JBl6IBiwDNIFWaNOQRtJTSgGOQKoF7nH667AEtVLA=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=DFnbIH1cN7to9i9/jPosKdJ6Oh8NM6XdXu5ZXJyA+qjDWUr817eqvyNl41xPvlWXh L9nk+C7YFxtkRRBGSu3P4p0MXVTp1TGlWC2MxYwHEH/3QgdhceyLNbgS9a8KsUokS8 0KwXNc4oz9BPgZ87jDVWQxvnE9fMbStzkru7Sqn0= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mx.nohats.ca Received: from mx.nohats.ca ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (mx.nohats.ca [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xPwyTIpOHwd6; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 03:21:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from bofh.nohats.ca (206-248-139-105.dsl.teksavvy.com [206.248.139.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 03:21:53 +0100 (CET) Received: by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7E5F731ED9D; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:21:50 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 bofh.nohats.ca 7E5F731ED9D Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bofh.nohats.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4F640D3581; Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:21:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 21:21:50 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Wouters To: Paul Hoffman In-Reply-To: <3C468942-EBF6-482D-A129-C7E171D0D76A@vpnc.org> Message-ID: References: <4C217351-FA2A-4B28-9D17-652FF36D3528@ogud.com> <4C0D7E57-C931-4D3E-B6E6-F9EA1F941773@vpnc.org> <3C468942-EBF6-482D-A129-C7E171D0D76A@vpnc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (LRH 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Cc: dane WG list Subject: Re: [dane] [EXTERNAL] Re: Summary of second WGLC for dane-smime X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 02:22:03 -0000 On Wed, 30 Nov 2016, Paul Hoffman wrote: > On 30 Nov 2016, at 6:33, Allison Mankin wrote: > >> I think this reference might work as an early archival discussion of >> rainbow tables for efficient hash breaking: >> >> >> www.iacr.org/cryptodb/archive/2003/CRYPTO/1615/1615.ps > > Thanks, this looks fine. We have updated the draft. The latest version addresses the issues I had raised. Thanks! Paul