From nobody Wed Apr 8 14:38:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1105B3A17FF for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:38:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xKlcxIoljNgD for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from straasha.imrryr.org (straasha.imrryr.org [100.2.39.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D37F3A17FE for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.161] (unknown [192.168.1.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by straasha.imrryr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B8B81BAEA5 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:38:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Viktor Dukhovni Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: dane@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <7747EDE7-3B4F-4391-97A8-F26643BB86ED@dukhovni.org> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:38:50 -0400 To: dane@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: [dane] DANE coming to Microsoft O365 (In case you did not already see the announcement elsewhere) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:38:55 -0000 Here's the story from "El Reg": = https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/07/microsoft_dane_office/ --=20 Viktor. From nobody Wed Apr 8 15:16:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DFF3A1888 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:16:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TlIR0IcebRdg for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from camel.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (camel.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88D663A0810 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:16:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D694100A26; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:16:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a81.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-10-8.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.10.8]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 00962100A37; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:16:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a81.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.6); Wed, 08 Apr 2020 22:16:42 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|nico@cryptonector.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Shade-Decisive: 28caf7de2ab92045_1586384202415_144030916 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1586384202415:1903469240 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1586384202414 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a81.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a81.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B072E7F115; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:content-type :in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=lI2afxyy716U5bKVTYlxoIpd8rE =; b=pr7P9kGZ/OZ+RZ5CV2QnO+9UafuAT6BVVF4z+0uaHS60M4/7HhU5qUQxZoL N+6rxACZZN9VOWTX8OFhvrcb/okLHztMTbwctY2sL2+iJ9BK8SljHgiKOoF8XmXk Wwa4GRNMbBbCEAEUbvJznLc2XVPEiiSkRLd+6mXFUp0QRvI4= Received: from localhost (unknown [24.28.108.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a81.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E3AA7F110; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 15:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 17:16:38 -0500 X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a81 From: Nico Williams To: dane@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408221636.GT18021@localhost> References: <7747EDE7-3B4F-4391-97A8-F26643BB86ED@dukhovni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7747EDE7-3B4F-4391-97A8-F26643BB86ED@dukhovni.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudekgddtgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjfgesthdtredttdervdenucfhrhhomheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqeenucffohhmrghinhepthhhvghrvghgihhsthgvrhdrtghordhukhenucfkphepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehlohgtrghlhhhoshhtpdhinhgvthepvdegrddvkedruddtkedrudekfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheppfhitghoucghihhllhhirghmshcuoehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhmpdhnrhgtphhtthhopehnihgtohestghrhihpthhonhgvtghtohhrrdgtohhm Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] DANE coming to Microsoft O365 (In case you did not already see the announcement elsewhere) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 22:16:45 -0000 On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 05:38:50PM -0400, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > Here's the story from "El Reg": https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/07/microsoft_dane_office/ Let me be the first to congratulate you here. For those who don't know, Viktor has been doing the thankless work of surveying the DNS for DNSSEC/DANE breakage, and informing postmasters of it, for a bunch of years now. Without that work DNSSEC and DANE could fail from entropy much sooner than entropy would take the Internet as a whole. Once large e-mail operators start using DANE for inbound (by the end 2021 for Microsoft) and outbound (by the end of 2020 for Microsoft), postmasters will have strong incentives to monitor their own zones and keep them from breaking. Once that's done, we'll be able to leverage DNSSEC and DANE for other things than e-mail. Hats off to Viktor! Nico -- From nobody Thu Apr 9 05:51:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dane@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46FB3A0A85 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 05:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S0SHykIrLvL5 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 05:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7A7D3A0A82 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 05:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id s13so7797937lfb.9 for ; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 05:51:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=T4104GJRYe/RYeDRp3fp0nIyKSFJC1uTTkTOcskaBYc=; b=dgtKIkKfWiZntTQFMLej/SmSSzUGOz5Z+LaxYEacrfF4Uxe8C5agSXFYlPOLYSs0vp liMGBZO7qXb+eQuaBoPr3oyWHdJMlO8DfhIAHgcq35Jyfo6qdk651IuBc0PzZ3sky1q3 R7bie0kyAnQmPPLW3TG8ZC552sF/0C0DD7RGz5uLC5UC8scOsQsyu5f7cizSs09U/vGf s/EYRG1XXX7gzPKMCXblmsOEKS20bjH6aH+CR6sRMYQs/V7Y7TTeYDF4kd9CKx411tom Rsf+jtQDspqDE/HaTg6dLVRSjQ0xWOGSBViMIzbS4dYc2z5AQZfSwY8/Xrwwc83MfkDJ baXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=T4104GJRYe/RYeDRp3fp0nIyKSFJC1uTTkTOcskaBYc=; b=Jq77hd9iRl+YstoTkw45RSMe9bPojHyhHvmaE5FsRuSj0rOzUG1diTY0Bv9tQRx+x9 Iuv8EKLYSzkbL/cAo/CqglVanjoZa9qbFueQ8zIpW5zP6iAMMozHw2YbZNJzR/vsSqRa HhF97+c0StLY2x2KvYihV/2c9a2LdkHnqLAQaFPhYzwwnIGV+iRwHF/Ifc9rwCC8rpFU LO2ZC/u3RhNEF9NQA0nkx3vfUW26E/ficZjTGtnEHaBkCu27zk7vsiDA/0zueyjg2SUm XKLtKiAiUiEZgcZhKsEU0PBgOo8/Oo/LS5Vv/rRVyVSh9iwinx1jTlitaLY4xhZyTsGL HU2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubvyFobfG/ibbQ6+o3+nD3TrltTC8/TVi6GMx3d/XFPv0puX+zK nckwTscXon/6/XXsikigRCX5b/gg1PQSknWFa7u6G6EB X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKz3u1g9U1chgkBpg9XVrMNxohzx+fRTUSeEicxVl8O/w9hrXaMKSIpykRf1R1Ecvv2maDM8DjCFgwwoSNLlzU= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4426:: with SMTP id w6mr7678649lfl.8.1586436698704; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 05:51:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7747EDE7-3B4F-4391-97A8-F26643BB86ED@dukhovni.org> <20200408221636.GT18021@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20200408221636.GT18021@localhost> From: Warren Kumari Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:51:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Nico Williams Cc: dane WG list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [dane] DANE coming to Microsoft O365 (In case you did not already see the announcement elsewhere) X-BeenThere: dane@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 12:51:43 -0000 On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 6:16 PM Nico Williams wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 05:38:50PM -0400, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > Here's the story from "El Reg": https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/04/07/microsoft_dane_office/ > > Let me be the first to congratulate you here. > > For those who don't know, Viktor has been doing the thankless work of > surveying the DNS for DNSSEC/DANE breakage, and informing postmasters of > it, for a bunch of years now. > > Without that work DNSSEC and DANE could fail from entropy much sooner > than entropy would take the Internet as a whole. > > Once large e-mail operators start using DANE for inbound (by the end > 2021 for Microsoft) and outbound (by the end of 2020 for Microsoft), > postmasters will have strong incentives to monitor their own zones and > keep them from breaking. Once that's done, we'll be able to leverage > DNSSEC and DANE for other things than e-mail. > > Hats off to Viktor! Yes, that's a really good point - thank you Viktor for being such a champion of DANE, and continuing to beat the drum... W > > Nico > -- > > _______________________________________________ > dane mailing list > dane@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf