From nobody Sat Feb 6 12:13:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B803ADE96; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:13:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VBeJwmpcgzgj; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 192AA3ADE57; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DY3Pt4WWxzyjt; Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:13:22 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 21:13:22 +0100 Message-Id: <76DBD589-9658-4D89-9CC7-4F863A787D08@tzi.org> To: asdf@ietf.org, coin@irtf.org, iotops@ietf.org, danish@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: [Danish] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF110: DRAFT AGENDA X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 20:13:26 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA for IETF110. Remember that there is still quite some potential for changes. The IoT-relevant conflicts that meet the eye this time are LAKE/RATS, IOTOPS/COSE, CORE/DANISH, in order from hurtful to disastrous (ROLL/SUIT and LPWAN/RATS are probably bearable). All times *on my agenda* are in UTC (the default page is UTC+0100). https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc might be handy. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, March 1, 2021 1600-1800 Hackathon Kickoff Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon THURSDAY, March 4, 2021 1700-1900 Technology Deep Dive Rm 1 tdd Technology Deep Dive FRIDAY, March 5, 2021 1600-1800 Hackathon Closing Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon MONDAY, March 8, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Rm 2 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 6 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 8 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 1 ART *** asdf A Semantic Definition Format for Data = and Interactions of Things WG Rm 3 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG Rm 5 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 7 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 7 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Rm 8 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG TUESDAY, March 9, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 3 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 6 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 8 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange = WG Rm 9 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 3 OPS *** iotops IOT Operations WG Rm 4 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 5 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 7 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG Rm 8 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 3 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 5 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Rm 8 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization = Protocol WG WEDNESDAY, March 10, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART jsonpath JSON Path WG Rm 2 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 3 IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Rm 8 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG Rm 9 TSV quic QUIC WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 4 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Rm 5 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 6 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 9 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG THURSDAY, March 11, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 2 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Rm 3 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 4 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG - Joint with HOMENET Rm 4 INT homenet Home Networking WG - Joint with DNSSD Rm 8 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting Rm 9 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1430-1530 Session II Rm 1 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 4 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Research Group Rm 5 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Rm 6 SEC openpgp Open Specification for Pretty Good = Privacy WG Rm 7 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 4 IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Rm 7 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting - Joint with = RTGWG Rm 8 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Rm 9 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over = QUIC Encryption WG FRIDAY, March 12, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 3 IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Rm 7 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 8 SEC *** danish DANE AutheNtication for Iot Service = Hardening BOF 1430-1530 Session II Rm 1 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Rm 3 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 5 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols 1600-1800 Session III Rm 2 ART httpapi Building Blocks for HTTP APIs WG Rm 3 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 7 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG From nobody Thu Feb 11 16:51:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047C23A0FB0 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:51:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pnKyV4jl6JgS for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E8413A0FAD for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 16:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9878C38A56 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id OnribMvhoRYr for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:55:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BB538A26 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E45559 for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:51:45 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: danish@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 00:51:50 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, there are some 30+ people subscribed to the DANISH list now from a wide variety of organizations. We should start! The BOF has been approved (the only one, I think, for IETF110), and is scheduled for the Friday Session I (at 12:00 UTC). The BOF chairs are Wes Hardaker and Michael Richardson. This non-WG forming BOF was created after the secdispatch discussion at IET= F109. Some organizational meetings with the ADs and proponents will occur next week, and I expect that this will result in a draft agenda being posted. We have added: 1.draft-huque-dane-client-cert-05 TLS Client Authentication via DANE TLSA records 2.draft-huque-tls-dane-clientid-04 TLS Extension for DANE Client Identity to the list of documents at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/danish/document= s/ It is possible that there are other documents on the Datatracker which are = relevant! Please point the list to them. There are perhaps other documents which are yet-to-be-submitted which should also be considered. If you are working on something but you aren't quite ready to submit it, then please let the BOF chairs know that something is coming. The secdispatch meetecho record which led to this BOF can be reviewed at: https://youtu.be/vA2P4EkNCIQ?t=3D3863 A key goal of the upcoming BOF is to establish a clear problem statement. Two areas of problem statement were mentioned in the secdispatch and in draft-huque-dane-client-cert, namely: a) IoT device authentication. b) SMTP client authentication. The work is also presently very TLS specific. This is either a feature (well focused work), or a problem (desire to use it for object security). Your comments and thoughts welcome. BOF-co-chairs. Wes + Michael =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAl0SEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVdkQf+NF2dm0M+hq3C8UMYMujscUBcr4I1+f0UuOg5lN1P9kcyDVnhxtRs9705 rILO/tcTF0HbtoXuNAJF0PdeCn7UaZkjGu/vnw+J5pa0n3uCYSME5js//+gxmuiI cv7mEU1iwZnLAdxhwaRQ0jRZk45JD8xFzT/HttHrYkS0BS4QLJCj6f4OPIQuChbO NEJtyDABKN+8UOcWSH3OL4C0KxOmSMLoUgjlb6E+YpsvGC960RnzeE8jq696ca4h af7Bzzzb7TsIkmZzxz1YDtiaN+z9FJW2OVmc18GJVW+zvg6svqnnsBP/VtK3hbsm mE/1WTZ+ti4QSSstgN5tCBJbFXQXMQ== =2QBB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Feb 12 01:41:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA0C3A14B4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 01:41:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z_gQwgJbDXcb for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 01:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73D163A14B2 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 01:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pinguicula.webway.org (h-205-16.A165.corp.bahnhof.se [176.10.205.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5ACB425F2; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:41:24 +0100 (CET) From: "Olle E. Johansson" Message-Id: <17AAD333-9985-4B98-A7C4-8BF9FD446E51@edvina.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2D7C7CCD-1BF1-4C30-862D-97595588EA22"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:41:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <22126.1613091105@localhost> Cc: Olle E Johansson , danish@ietf.org To: Michael Richardson References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:41:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2D7C7CCD-1BF1-4C30-862D-97595588EA22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 12 Feb 2021, at 01:51, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part >=20 > Hi, there are some 30+ people subscribed to the DANISH list now from a = wide > variety of organizations. We should start! >=20 > The BOF has been approved (the only one, I think, for IETF110), and is > scheduled for the Friday Session I (at 12:00 UTC). Great! >=20 > The BOF chairs are Wes Hardaker and Michael Richardson. > This non-WG forming BOF was created after the secdispatch discussion = at IETF109. > Some organizational meetings with the ADs and proponents will occur = next > week, and I expect that this will result in a draft agenda being = posted. >=20 > We have added: > 1.draft-huque-dane-client-cert-05 > TLS Client Authentication via DANE TLSA records > 2.draft-huque-tls-dane-clientid-04 > TLS Extension for DANE Client Identity > to the list of documents at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/danish/documents/ >=20 > It is possible that there are other documents on the Datatracker which = are relevant! > Please point the list to them. >=20 > There are perhaps other documents which are yet-to-be-submitted which = should > also be considered. If you are working on something but you aren't = quite > ready to submit it, then please let the BOF chairs know that something = is > coming. >=20 > The secdispatch meetecho record which led to this BOF can be reviewed = at: > https://youtu.be/vA2P4EkNCIQ?t=3D3863 >=20 > A key goal of the upcoming BOF is to establish a clear problem = statement. >=20 > Two areas of problem statement were mentioned in the secdispatch and > in draft-huque-dane-client-cert, namely: > a) IoT device authentication. > b) SMTP client authentication. I have some ideas for realtime communication - SIP and possibly some WebRTC implementations as well. Just loose ideas, based on my earlier draft on SIP and DANE. Would be great if a vendor of SIP devices hooked = on :-) Also work with IoT device auth, so it=E2=80=99s my main interest here. Thank you for your work in bringing it to BOF! /O >=20 > The work is also presently very TLS specific. > This is either a feature (well focused work), or a problem (desire to = use it > for object security). Your comments and thoughts welcome. >=20 > BOF-co-chairs. > Wes + Michael >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T = consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_2D7C7CCD-1BF1-4C30-862D-97595588EA22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: http://edvina.net iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEAsV9zKckq/QkNi1DMKLWpfU/lUYFAmAmTT8ACgkQMKLWpfU/ lUag0wwAsG7e/drqqUjCn7d1dYEUpYdwoJjZXxpKGepRmSo0JIRl8uM4XOoqg06Z bBZUAjz2xhT133GRin11yF2uGMxLtbR7ORWstaZDLPYdhJfMschP7QyroGozDu7G gPq+9egl7d7YQti/na45GowNrDQKcXMTItYSQzmkbQWjfU7G2pJL6sy0thO2UKBx BTG/tUtpKX1R65oVeqikuXyFFiDXsnEnRLRPyLmfj+eDdn8cSSDjV2ZCe3JozjPm 55GMtkS2HnuFCl4gk36nOXQxDwVReml/VN2oyMO5hJID9hlC8Ly8+FV6wkC2iF+7 CvIWQ292XPeZfvCS8Rfh4fTnxRXPHiciL3gIJT11TpBzTn6YwYMnHf0whqCJXLW2 J0Wyk+6wMIeIXjf2d7/XS+DLN6LQRT/QrTANB7welIgpqea771ZfFcbUZ/VaeyRa 4F5X47UgyazEDaa/tv2jdNamk6cmQFVpU4taCbHPUAAGGBQWOzE7t81M6ImeS4EU Hnbqzfxy =Jmqr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2D7C7CCD-1BF1-4C30-862D-97595588EA22-- From nobody Fri Feb 12 10:28:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6675A3A00C4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VtP0afL56lkP for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from straasha.imrryr.org (straasha.imrryr.org [100.2.39.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE9D23A003F for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by straasha.imrryr.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9C7EB1AE89A; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:28:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:28:16 -0500 From: Viktor Dukhovni To: danish@ietf.org Message-ID: Reply-To: danish@ietf.org References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <22126.1613091105@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 18:28:19 -0000 On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 07:51:45PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: > The BOF has been approved (the only one, I think, for IETF110), and is > scheduled for the Friday Session I (at 12:00 UTC). The agenda page shows a different time (Thursday 16:00 UTC): https://sandbox.ietf.org/meeting/110/agenda-utc https://sandbox.ietf.org/meeting/110/session/28735.ics which is right? -- Viktor. From nobody Fri Feb 12 10:44:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 352143A0ACB for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:44:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOV9DkmjXJJX for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 349933A0AB4 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AAECF27443; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:44:06 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Viktor Dukhovni Cc: danish@ietf.org References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:44:06 -0800 In-Reply-To: (Viktor Dukhovni's message of "Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:28:16 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 18:44:08 -0000 Viktor Dukhovni writes: > On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 07:51:45PM -0500, Michael Richardson wrote: > > > The BOF has been approved (the only one, I think, for IETF110), and is > > scheduled for the Friday Session I (at 12:00 UTC). > > The agenda page shows a different time (Thursday 16:00 UTC): The agenda is always right. Until it changes, then it's right again. -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Fri Feb 12 16:37:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietf.org Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4331C3A11F0; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:33:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: danish@ietf.org, rdd@cert.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161317641225.31337.7741273883139596755@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 16:33:32 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Danish] danish - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 110 X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:33:40 -0000 Dear Cindy Morgan, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. danish Session 1 (2:00 requested) Friday, 12 March 2021, Session I 1300-1500 Room Name: Room 7 size: 507 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/sessions/danish.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: DANE AutheNtication for Iot Service Hardening Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Cindy Morgan Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: tls emu anima iotops asdf cellar roll iabopen Technology Overlap: cbor cose lamps Key Participant Conflict: dprive add People who must be present: Michael Richardson Roman Danyliw Wes Hardaker Resources Requested: Special Requests: Please also avoid rfcefdp (chair conflict). Request 1.5 hours. --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Feb 13 00:34:59 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D4003A0C59; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:34:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMo5IEJiSuot; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:34:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23CDB3A0C77; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 00:34:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.217.152] (p5089a828.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.168.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Dd2RG29hYzyVg; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:43:22 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:43:22 +0100 Message-Id: <9E853509-1781-42BC-A04F-D63A6884A965@tzi.org> To: asdf@ietf.org, coin@irtf.org, iotops@ietf.org, danish@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: [Danish] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF110: "FINAL" AGENDA X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:34:54 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the "FINAL" AGENDA for IETF110. Remember that further agenda changes can still happen. A number of changes have been made with respect to the draft agenda. CBOR has moved to Monday into what was ASDF's slot, and ASDF is now on top of IOTOPS (ugh). COSE has moved into Friday's middle slot that had been used by CBOR. Other conflicts that remain are LAKE/RATS, CORE/DANISH -- you just can't do both IoT application layer and IoT security this time (ROLL/SUIT and LPWAN/RATS are probably bearable). All times *on my agenda* are in UTC (the default page is UTC+0100). https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc might be handy, and the main agenda tool now has an awesome timezone selection tool. Note that both EU and US are still on winter time (standard time) then; the US moves forward on Mar 14 with the EU following Mar 28 -- we'll have two weeks of confusion this time right after the IETF. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, March 1, 2021 1600-1800 Hackathon Kickoff Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon THURSDAY, March 4, 2021 1700-1900 Technology Deep Dive Rm 1 tdd Technology Deep Dive FRIDAY, March 5, 2021 1600-1800 Hackathon Closing Rm 1 GEN hackathon Hackathon MONDAY, March 8, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Rm 2 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 6 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 8 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 1 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Rm 2 IRTF maprg Measurement and Analysis for Protocols Rm 3 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 5 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 6 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 2 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 3 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 7 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Rm 8 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG TUESDAY, March 9, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 3 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 6 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 8 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange = WG Rm 9 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 1 ART *** asdf A Semantic Definition Format for Data = and Interactions of Things WG Rm 4 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 5 OPS *** iotops IOT Operations WG Rm 6 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 7 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG Rm 9 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 3 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 5 OPS v6ops IPv6 Operations WG Rm 8 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization = Protocol WG Rm 9 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over = QUIC Encryption WG WEDNESDAY, March 10, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 2 ART jsonpath JSON Path WG Rm 3 IRTF icnrg Information-Centric Networking Rm 8 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG Rm 9 TSV quic QUIC WG 1430-1530 Session II Rm 4 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Rm 5 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 6 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 9 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG THURSDAY, March 11, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 2 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Rm 3 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 4 INT dnssd Extensions for Scalable DNS Service = Discovery WG - Joint with HOMENET Rm 4 INT homenet Home Networking WG - Joint with DNSSD Rm 8 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting Rm 9 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1430-1530 Session II Rm 3 IRTF panrg Path Aware Networking RG Rm 6 RTG *** roll Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks WG Rm 7 SEC openpgp Open Specification for Pretty Good = Privacy WG Rm 8 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 4 IRTF*** t2trg Thing-to-Thing Rm 7 RTG rtgarea Routing Area Open Meeting - Joint with = RTGWG Rm 8 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG FRIDAY, March 12, 2021 1200-1400 Session I Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 3 IRTF cfrg Crypto Forum Rm 7 SEC *** danish DANE AutheNtication for Iot Service = Hardening BOF 1430-1530 Session II Rm 3 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 4 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 6 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Research Group Rm 8 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG 1600-1800 Session III Rm 1 ART httpapi Building Blocks for HTTP APIs WG Rm 2 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 6 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Rm 8 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG From nobody Sat Feb 13 18:01:24 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B5A3A12BA for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:01:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dWHuItkMsUZ2 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 148103A12B9 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289BD38A49 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:04:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id FnGH6JK873GS for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C215238A48 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:04:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64AB4670 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 21:01:16 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: danish@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:01:23 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Viktor Dukhovni wrote: >> The BOF has been approved (the only one, I think, for IETF110), and = is >> scheduled for the Friday Session I (at 12:00 UTC). > The agenda page shows a different time (Thursday 16:00 UTC): > https://sandbox.ietf.org/meeting/110/agenda-utc > https://sandbox.ietf.org/meeting/110/session/28735.ics > which is right? So, a) "sandbox.ietf.org" is *not* in any way authoritative :-) It gets an irregular (sometimes daily) copy of the production DT, with some changes. b) On Friday, the agenda was formally finalized, so maybe it changed, but: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/agenda.html?show=3Ddanish and: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/danish/meetings/ concurs... so please don't use "sandbox" as a reference :-) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAohGwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUn6Qf9EM3HbZIUt3EmcyEdqDr+EAHLP57YCkjEdZ7v5K3F3v+/pK8eyRk9OC49 09g0N9jUS7sXaBtZ+y8193AELxljj3VIfxM5mQ4vnWwPkWdJO22r1bG5/whDMDRo MqM6CLIYKb1pRzkJg9oebKcLOUzVw/M4ViY0RcQhwe9KQM3rYjQphqBaipW0MKHJ woyIxYtOIkqGxHlrG5gDZpT18eX8ISmLH9/gVxt7HQQ3R/jDGEz4XUjPNHd5Uu4v JBudVB3H+FZFP1nsG4pGATmwUsXyIPZxgwmgRKxtbL4OPzk6SmtSDnWMYvd3BfQ/ lvBH8KmgpopPSz31HdV+K2HCubZq6A== =RfLT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Feb 15 08:06:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8643A0E11 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 08:06:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmG3ROn39Isf for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 08:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F903A0DFF for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 08:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF0638991 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id vm1vCXiOaCOC for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565FE38990 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F02A29E for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:06:14 -0500 (EST) To: danish@ietf.org References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> <17AAD333-9985-4B98-A7C4-8BF9FD446E51@edvina.net> From: Michael Richardson Message-ID: <0e23c867-400e-3e47-3a65-33e12d874215@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 11:06:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <17AAD333-9985-4B98-A7C4-8BF9FD446E51@edvina.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 16:06:28 -0000 On 2021-02-12 4:41 a.m., Olle E. Johansson wrote: > > >> On 12 Feb 2021, at 01:51, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Two areas of problem statement were mentioned in the secdispatch and >> in draft-huque-dane-client-cert, namely: >> a) IoT device authentication. >> b) SMTP client authentication. > > I have some ideas for realtime communication - SIP and possibly some > WebRTC implementations as well. Just loose ideas, based on my earlier > draft on SIP and DANE. Would be great if a vendor of SIP devices hooked on :-) Perhaps you want to explain more, either in the form of an Internet-Draft, slides, or emails? > Also work with IoT device auth, so it’s my main interest here. Please tell us more. m2m? device to cloud? within an ecosystem/vertical? cross-vertical? Home? Industrial? Automotive? Building? From nobody Mon Feb 15 15:00:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22AE53A12A5; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:00:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m_ieQQ0neufW; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:00:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 026DE3A0C8A; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FBAD38998; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:03:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id eSiS4BoHLmcF; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:03:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408A038996; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:03:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77789DD; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:00:19 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson CC: Russ Housley to: "iot-directorate\@ietf.org" , iotops@ietf.org, danish@ietf.org Reply-to: iotops@ietf.org, danish@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <49163B0D-3952-4DE8-8915-6DC6D50F851C@vigilsec.com> References: <49163B0D-3952-4DE8-8915-6DC6D50F851C@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] [Iot-directorate] SCVP X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 23:00:26 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For others: SCVP =3D Server-Based Certificate Validation Protocol RFC5055. Russ Housley wrote: > I have recently learned that the US Department of Treasury operates an > SCVP responder associated with the US Government's PKI: > https://vssapi.treasury.gov/vss/docs/treas_scvp_profile_v1.3.pdf BTW: This URL returns no MIME type, so sane browsers assume text/plain, so you'll have to save-as, as load it locally. The diagram of the federal PKI is truly impressive. Is the software that they run available? > This Got me to thinking about an IoT device trying to construct a > certification path in this complex PKI environment. Such a SCVP > responder could be used to offload this task. There could be battery > consumption to send the request and get the response; however, it may > very well be less battery than doing the certification path > construction itself. There are three considerations in the analysis in my opinion: 1) the network energy cost of connecting. 2) the local energy cost of being awake to receive the reply. 3) the network energy cost of retrieving the relevant certificate chains. I think that a major win for IoT devices on challenged networks is being ab= le to avoid retrieving any of the subordinate or intermediate CRLs/OCSP results along the way. This feels like a service that a powered IoT gateway ought to provide. This eliminates much of the trust issue. Also, the odds are all the devices in a sensor network would have to valida= te much of the same complex path, so caching would work well. However, I have yet to see any IoT system that has a PKI more complex than two levels of private PKI. But, perhaps that's because more complex scenarios wouldn't work with SCVP. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAq/QMACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXLDQf+PYJglYZANrhbGuHhw8hq7SOSxn9BnSPKp9QYIA5awOBOMckNBzObqBAG /R/NewERSN9T7KZ+knWXpJvwSNIuCTV66naE/t4c863cYaqxGvgqyRXQLmvh7XeP WUcvgdUBNeQpshpj3FSJs00dPOOpuBniDqkeDwkNEHHRjH5YZ/VGbtxToB6NHsGq Yg3TYydt/VwlhPhTpNzubsZ0Tccs7t3ALJKxpMxP7RRWK6PIJMYqb7JoSdnBFv3x rOvAlXWJjSZJBsnUsR7zcLI1bzFBL8mqYvt8pf89cIEk9sE8w0nf2OmgIno9POF/ phkwILz0Ip9AbrWJDzGFiVKAi7NmDw== =XzXo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Feb 15 22:44:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D309F3A0E81 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 22:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yELEx_Ur2OBv for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 22:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp7.webway.se (smtp7.webway.se [IPv6:2a02:920:212e::205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A63693A0E4A for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 22:44:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from macbook-pro.webway.org (h-205-16.A165.corp.bahnhof.se [176.10.205.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp7.webway.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04E1C217B; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:44:23 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: "Olle E. Johansson" In-Reply-To: <0e23c867-400e-3e47-3a65-33e12d874215@sandelman.ca> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 07:44:23 +0100 Cc: danish@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <71CE3F61-1959-43C1-915D-53A9D00735E2@edvina.net> References: <16827.1611948402@localhost> <8243.1612384217@localhost> <13345.1612653678@localhost> <22126.1613091105@localhost> <17AAD333-9985-4B98-A7C4-8BF9FD446E51@edvina.net> <0e23c867-400e-3e47-3a65-33e12d874215@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] DANISH BOF introductory email X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:44:30 -0000 > On 15 Feb 2021, at 17:06, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > On 2021-02-12 4:41 a.m., Olle E. Johansson wrote: >>> On 12 Feb 2021, at 01:51, Michael Richardson = wrote: >>> Two areas of problem statement were mentioned in the secdispatch and >>> in draft-huque-dane-client-cert, namely: >>> a) IoT device authentication. >>> b) SMTP client authentication. >> I have some ideas for realtime communication - SIP and possibly some >> WebRTC implementations as well. Just loose ideas, based on my earlier >> draft on SIP and DANE. Would be great if a vendor of SIP devices = hooked on :-) >=20 > Perhaps you want to explain more, either in the form of an = Internet-Draft, slides, or emails? I just need to collect my thoughts on this, but I will certainly come up = with slides if that=E2=80=99s needed. >=20 >> Also work with IoT device auth, so it=E2=80=99s my main interest = here. >=20 > Please tell us more. > m2m? > device to cloud? > within an ecosystem/vertical? > cross-vertical? > Home? Industrial? Automotive? Building? It=E2=80=99s a project with device2gateway and gateway@cloud involved. = Not for homes. We have the usual issues - establishing trust in multiple CAs, rollover = of everything from device keys to CAs. I=E2=80=99m a contractor and came in late, so a = lot of decisions was made early and a lot of decisions was not made in time, so it=E2=80=99= s a bit of a=20 clean up mission :-) /O From nobody Tue Feb 16 06:00:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6762B3A098D; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:00:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iYJ1nxsVBQ4g; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8DF53A098A; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:00:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4B54327889; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Michael Richardson Cc: "iot-directorate@ietf.org" , iotops@ietf.org, danish@ietf.org, Russ Housley References: <49163B0D-3952-4DE8-8915-6DC6D50F851C@vigilsec.com> <1182.1613430019@localhost> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:00:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: <1182.1613430019@localhost> (Michael Richardson's message of "Mon, 15 Feb 2021 18:00:19 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] [Iot-directorate] SCVP X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:00:23 -0000 Michael Richardson writes: > > however, it may very well be less battery than doing the > > certification path construction itself. > > There are three considerations in the analysis in my opinion: > 1) the network energy cost of connecting. > 2) the local energy cost of being awake to receive the reply. > 3) the network energy cost of retrieving the relevant certificate chains. I think that's a great point. DANE is likely far less energy intensive than full PKI -- but you probably need data to prove it (number of CPU instructions needed or something for full validation via both certificate verification approaches) -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI From nobody Tue Feb 16 12:06:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC943A1056 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jGdtWCzOXEEz for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from straasha.imrryr.org (straasha.imrryr.org [100.2.39.101]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54FCF3A1052 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.177] (unknown [192.168.1.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by straasha.imrryr.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2E564B9AFD for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 15:06:27 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.4\)) From: Viktor Dukhovni In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:06:26 -0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: danish@ietf.org Message-Id: <4DBD656B-ED85-47DB-9493-6B3CC8AC50A1@dukhovni.org> References: <49163B0D-3952-4DE8-8915-6DC6D50F851C@vigilsec.com> <1182.1613430019@localhost> To: danish@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.4) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] [Iot-directorate] SCVP X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 20:06:30 -0000 > On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:00 PM, Wes Hardaker wrote: > > I think that's a great point. DANE is likely far less energy intensive > than full PKI -- but you probably need data to prove it (number of CPU > instructions needed or something for full validation via both > certificate verification approaches) DANE-EE(3) requires just a check of the hash of the EE cert, there's no need for chain validation. Validation of the associated DNS records can be amortised by caching, but is otherwise potentially costly if performed afresh each time. For DANE on an energy constrained device I'd probably look for a secure channel (DoH, DoT, or some day QUIC) to a trusted iterative resolver that can return validated DANE records to the application without the need to perform any validation locally. The DANE records can then be cached and used multiple times up to the returned TTL. If these are DANE-EE(3) or similar, then indeed there may be a savings in the cost of signature verification, because there are no issuer signatures to check. If on the other extreme DANE is used to pin a "root CA" a few levels up the issuer stack, then DANE and PKIX are much the same, with DANE perhaps slightly costlier because the DNS data needs to be refreshed more often than would a locally configured root CAs. -- Viktor. From nobody Tue Feb 16 12:14:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: danish@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05363A1069 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:14:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xB436yzReHWo for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:14:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hardakers.net (mail.hardakers.net [168.150.192.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6471D3A10C1 for ; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by mail.hardakers.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A6FBF279BE; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Hardaker To: Viktor Dukhovni Cc: danish@ietf.org References: <49163B0D-3952-4DE8-8915-6DC6D50F851C@vigilsec.com> <1182.1613430019@localhost> <4DBD656B-ED85-47DB-9493-6B3CC8AC50A1@dukhovni.org> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 12:14:14 -0800 In-Reply-To: <4DBD656B-ED85-47DB-9493-6B3CC8AC50A1@dukhovni.org> (Viktor Dukhovni's message of "Tue, 16 Feb 2021 18:06:26 -0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Danish] [Iot-directorate] SCVP X-BeenThere: danish@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 20:14:19 -0000 So enumerating the potential things to attempt to measure: 1) Full PKIX -- ignore DNSSEC and DANE 2) DANE with full DNSSEC validation -- DANE-EE and validation from the root (worst case) 3) DANE with DOH/DoT/etc validation done by the upstream resolver that you trust to do DNSSEC validation (because you're throwing trust at this point). Also note that in this situation you may or may not be using long lived connections with the DoH/DoT provider (which will also require PKIX). (Also note that there is likely varying levels of trust for them to properly set the AA bit) -- Wes Hardaker USC/ISI