From nobody Tue Jul 1 16:45:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216501A0B04 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:45:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n1wLnIoI_wmX for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18F771A0B0E for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 16:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s61NjkDf066273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2014 18:45:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 425951146.465517-2a6a4cae871d86774044754933dbe87e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Message-Id: <8FC1DC3D-D552-4961-9B16-18E084C8E44D@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 18:45:46 -0500 To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/Ck82p6PVsPde1wK2iAtvA-EhqtE Subject: [Dart] Agenda for Toronto X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2014 23:45:51 -0000 Hi Everyone, It's close to time to submit an agenda for the DART meeting at IETF90 in = Toronto. The only item I have for the agenda is a discussion of = draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp. Hopefully version 01. Are there other topics that need face to face discussion? Thanks! Ben.= From nobody Thu Jul 3 13:03:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D571B2B55 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 13:03:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILSlEFauUVFU for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 13:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C34CD1B2B48 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 13:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.35]) by mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s63K3PsY006810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:03:25 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com s63K3PsY006810 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1404417805; bh=HvmB58Ok8G43ZYbby+y6R8PBUnM=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=mL2g+jX4wHCeP+NTVUBSjbVh4Z8X+QkWx2S4+G8/bX1aP1pm8Z9WBJ0BnvWoQx+ly wMd+waUGqMt2siSy+uu4P4C1P7LARsvCoPt/c9mR4a5ELi8oySodAzpBCTcZ7BkerA gf2K8bVqkdjx8fDIu1eXdb5zzCcJ3uVmYrj6F8q4= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com s63K3PsY006810 Received: from mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.21]) by maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:03:15 -0400 Received: from mxhub24.corp.emc.com (mxhub24.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.136]) by mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s63K3FTE009847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:03:15 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.248]) by mxhub24.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.136]) with mapi; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:03:15 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "dart@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:03:13 -0400 Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac+W+apm/BteG4GFRjSpXGkpNWgbHQAAAwZQ Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077005104C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140703200148.20649.24059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140703200148.20649.24059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/LguMS-_8tyqOX_M_6eyrMFsF5m0 Subject: [Dart] FW: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 20:03:33 -0000 FYI, lots of changes - this should reflect most of the input we've received= . Thanks, --David -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 4:02 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and Real-time = Communication Authors : Dan York David Black Cullen Jennings Paul Jones Filename : draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2014-07-03 Abstract: This document describes the interaction between Differentiated Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality and real-time network communication, including communication based on the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on network nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As a result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the traffic source and destination. This document covers the implications of these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, including RTCWEB. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Thu Jul 3 14:17:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDA41A044B for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 14:17:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNNdfun7v1ls for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 14:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2247B1B2859 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 14:17:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s63LGpmU092979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:16:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077005104C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 16:16:51 -0500 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 426115011.293302-fd58de9dd2a31c7a717a80b92913f1e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <39220191-DF9C-458A-A702-38D1DF74F0DA@nostrum.com> References: <20140703200148.20649.24059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077005104C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> To: "Black, David" , "Dan York (york@isoc.org)" , "Paul Jones (paulej) (paulej@cisco.com)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/v3LMCSZQYxhFAN_uMx5vC4GNjaE Cc: "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] FW: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:17:03 -0000 Thanks guys! On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Black, David wrote: > FYI, lots of changes - this should reflect most of the input we've = received. >=20 > Thanks, > --David >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 4:02 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and = Real-time Communication > Authors : Dan York > David Black > Cullen Jennings > Paul Jones > Filename : draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt > Pages : 19 > Date : 2014-07-03 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the interaction between Differentiated > Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality > and real-time network communication, including communication based = on > the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on = network > nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP > headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As = a > result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may > cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In > addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the = traffic > source and destination. This document covers the implications of > these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, = including > RTCWEB. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Thu Jul 3 18:20:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51581A0428 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zwfBh778isVk for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22c.google.com (mail-pd0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 966341A0292 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 18:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id w10so1086159pde.17 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2014 18:20:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ETGzCbBEMhzER7HxZ4oqkBUUJTFriD+MK5RfiGP34Xw=; b=eNvkOCpxcSVeNYzrlhr69epBxykjOfeBRZ1M6eIlQb84Twp+CmbXuQxfjNf/3MLhOr PXBBOlc9Hb4wI+6F1I6T52Wi69oD+RB0Ub9SsfVATtY1BFi7s3BDOCGBVuL7P+BlvjVI bU2oBm069fQwduzFHdmNENGkUXip+AFAeZDcY6d0ksqaaYWPgQ4ZcEpHxPPPEptvjWem 65C/PfIfWQ4syT4gpk8itsVI5BswtMp6CMwkZmT1ibTU3Ky8XOnQsxrX/Wp1LmsAwgWE RmCK1CzpNQkG4tdiIySGSyjTTZ/uvuFt4LKNOqcNd9DaGn+qKEe65BDaDboM9b4siJaC MjYg== X-Received: by 10.66.139.132 with SMTP id qy4mr68571pab.133.1404436841279; Thu, 03 Jul 2014 18:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.216.38.108] (sc-cs-567-laptop.cs.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w16sm6552453pdl.36.2014.07.03.18.20.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jul 2014 18:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53B60171.709@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 13:20:49 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dart@ietf.org References: <20140703200148.20649.24059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140703200148.20649.24059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/C8nnxjgsmujObyybdZTndBD9kqE Subject: Re: [Dart] I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-01.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 01:20:43 -0000 Conistent with my previous message, I suggest that the following text should be tuned slightly: > o CS1 ('001000') was subsequently recommended for "less than best > effort" service when such a service is offered by a network > [RFC3662]. Not all networks offer such a service. > > Applications and traffic sources cannot rely upon different class > selector codepoints providing differentiated services or upon the > presence of a "less than best effort" service that is selected by the > CS1 DSCP, because RFC 3662 doesn't define LBE; it defines "lower effort" (LE). Apart from that, I think the document is much improved. Brian From nobody Fri Jul 4 05:42:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E7AA1B28B4 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 05:42:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zC2RW6rjRglR for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 05:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5131B28B3 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 05:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E807C39C7 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 14:42:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hi7nSMSzOfiN for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 14:42:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [172.28.249.106] (unknown [74.125.57.89]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D9417C398A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 14:42:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <53B6A149.2060200@alvestrand.no> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 14:42:49 +0200 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "dart@ietf.org" X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/6AgaYspuMjMU70CICn1YOHXs2tA Subject: [Dart] News from AVTEXT: The term "packet stream" is now "RTP Stream" X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 12:42:54 -0000 FYI.... the draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-grouping-taxonomy draft has changed its opinion of what to call a stream of RTP packets with a single SSRC (at any given time). They used to call it a "Packet Stream". Now they call it an "RTP Stream". draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-02.txt -- Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark. From nobody Fri Jul 4 08:38:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48871B2D8A for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 08:38:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hkKaYt68Y2Xl for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 08:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DDF01B2AEB for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.35]) by mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s64FcJ1s009411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:38:20 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com s64FcJ1s009411 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1404488300; bh=V6C+wdA0489MNdnXo4pjzMsRmu8=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=fasb9O0rYEN+XSREvV3qLklcrxsG/OIHGeXJ3cePUkHRcqvoWWUxO+VYU4HXjAw/L B4QOrj492u++8R3dmlIXMpZJnKBg1Ns1XpC2VfBfNmfGty5PCGAYSmJDI30k5g3o6B S7Onls0IhElR/733k/aY/GlYGxHWCvI7qasyaIb4= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com s64FcJ1s009411 Received: from mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.18]) by maildlpprd03.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:34:30 -0400 Received: from mxhub30.corp.emc.com (mxhub30.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.170]) by mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s64FYQ7E018590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:34:30 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.248]) by mxhub30.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.170]) with mapi; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:34:26 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Harald Alvestrand , "dart@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:34:24 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Dart] News from AVTEXT: The term "packet stream" is now "RTP Stream" Thread-Index: Ac+XhYgBb/Puwhf0Te+J/4padAH+JgAF3/aQ Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207700510B7@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <53B6A149.2060200@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: <53B6A149.2060200@alvestrand.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/VsKGoU4xkpMnP4buf7DChpfoLOs Subject: Re: [Dart] News from AVTEXT: The term "packet stream" is now "RTP Stream" X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 15:38:29 -0000 The best laid plans of mice and men ... ... -02 of draft-york will be coming later today to get back in alignment (it'll also pick up Brian Carpenter's comment). Thanks for passing this along, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Harald Alvestrand > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 8:43 AM > To: dart@ietf.org > Subject: [Dart] News from AVTEXT: The term "packet stream" is now "RTP St= ream" >=20 > FYI.... the draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-grouping-taxonomy draft has changed > its opinion of what to call a stream of RTP packets with a single SSRC > (at any given time). >=20 > They used to call it a "Packet Stream". Now they call it an "RTP Stream". >=20 >=20 > draft-ietf-avtext-rtp-grouping-taxonomy-02.txt >=20 > -- > Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Fri Jul 4 09:23:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F331B2D93 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i4yVfTn9Owwo for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58D171B2C37 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.36]) by mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s64GNDZL021102 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:23:14 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com s64GNDZL021102 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1404490994; bh=aWfeZfCLuxoqMl2TPAfXAFDW0tM=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=sO7aBnJ8+PK83O9aj4w3WJWvpuqCpPlSpfZBUH6Fgv+yfKxTql9ejfPEXvgd754T0 f42VAUHAI1NjxPrJaWL7OT0M/XSaGAQV8AXdMt83zGnMX3kJBLkPPENvioEHf1EUCW C7xfP4kyFNqPLhdVjRvOJ+272ZAD187pa8sXEVcc= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd04.lss.emc.com s64GNDZL021102 Received: from mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.19]) by maildlpprd04.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 09:23:03 -0700 Received: from mxhub20.corp.emc.com (mxhub20.corp.emc.com [10.254.93.49]) by mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s64GN2Mr007889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:23:02 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.248]) by mxhub20.corp.emc.com ([10.254.93.49]) with mapi; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:23:01 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "dart@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:23:00 -0400 Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt Thread-Index: Ac+Xo/zF8fyTQaw8S6yPn1CdS4RMvQAAATEg Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207700510BF@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140704162103.11402.51516.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140704162103.11402.51516.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd54.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/SYZvokV4yvrRTSLXAMs4vZAfD5U Subject: [Dart] FW: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 16:23:17 -0000 Minor edits: - "RTP packet stream" -> "RTP stream" - Use correct RFC 3662 terms for less-than-best-effort - Remove some nits Thanks, --David -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 12:21 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and Real-time = Communication Authors : Dan York David Black Cullen Jennings Paul Jones Filename : draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2014-07-04 Abstract: This document describes the interaction between Differentiated Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality and real-time network communication, including communication based on the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on network nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As a result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the traffic source and destination. This document covers the implications of these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, including RTCWEB. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon Jul 7 03:18:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C0B91B2807 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 03:18:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWixSrYM1PKY for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 03:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [80.149.113.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B4A61B2806 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 03:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113445.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.105]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 07 Jul 2014 12:18:02 +0200 Received: from HE111643.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.12]) by HE113445.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:18:02 +0200 From: To: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:18:01 +0200 Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt Thread-Index: Ac+Xo/zF8fyTQaw8S6yPn1CdS4RMvQAAATEgAInM40A= Message-ID: References: <20140704162103.11402.51516.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207700510BF@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207700510BF@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/qjKWk1MrmOJMCzP6yI1b9dhw1RE Cc: dart@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 10:18:10 -0000 David and co-authors, thanks, a good improvement as compared to -00. I appreciate the examples gi= ven. Regards, Ruediger -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Black, David Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Juli 2014 18:23 An: dart@ietf.org Betreff: [Dart] FW: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt Minor edits: - "RTP packet stream" -> "RTP stream" - Use correct RFC 3662 terms for less-than-best-effort - Remove some nits Thanks, --David -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 12:21 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and Real-time = Communication Authors : Dan York David Black Cullen Jennings Paul Jones Filename : draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2014-07-04 Abstract: This document describes the interaction between Differentiated Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality and real-time network communication, including communication based on the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on network nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As a result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the traffic source and destination. This document covers the implications of these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, including RTCWEB. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ie= tf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ Dart mailing list Dart@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Mon Jul 7 12:38:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC571B28A3 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTcJYv4bkM19 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD7E61B28A8 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s67JcZRp025958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:38:36 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:38:35 -0500 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 426454715.407729-8d9e03ad1a66f325a3980e42467c32a3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/DxxYDQ8Ta5e1xU5h9bUXXr98RAQ Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:38:38 -0000 Hi Everyone, This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt = draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our = chartered deliverable. Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains = the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general = as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an = informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft = is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does = not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely = correct.=20 The draft is available at = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02. Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July = 21. Thanks! Ben.= From nobody Mon Jul 7 12:46:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E37091B28AA for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:46:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4edcCXgVLZ4 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FAAA1B28A1 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:46:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1137; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1404762361; x=1405971961; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=8yWzAoXIOLfzzOlSrMpUKkjfvjbnG2CBDdXAtlgySto=; b=AqOAkMOyxO/TgBiJbApeRSLT3vhHsqHFlmXrJuBbTqUp3mZawOK4rcm0 Iu7vYyUDN6TnZ4vweXgg50J59MBR4SH7KY2UEYYDWcSx4aChvbs48xQQm tlhEt4MHIHttYUl8VmczFs7insCtEbMGEyVXwPzAWX5fs55OnHG+zkt1J Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFABb4ulOtJV2U/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SWr54h0UBgRsWdYQDAQEBAwEBAQE3NAsFCwIBCDYQJwslAgQOBYg6CA3JWheObzMHgy2BFgWadoFIkkSDQ4Iw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,620,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="338083549" Received: from rcdn-core-12.cisco.com ([173.37.93.148]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Jul 2014 19:46:00 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s67Jjxsa024123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:45:59 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.176]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:45:59 -0500 From: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Thread-Index: AQHPmhsP0q5imuC1m0G9YcVjKH8d55uVV8AA Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <2315A350-30D4-4F36-BF86-67CC91314329@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.102.154.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/bmOXaC1_IchXnxITRYXA3gJ2MpM Cc: "dart@ietf.org" , "draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:46:02 -0000 I support adoption of draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a WG document. Cheers, Gonzalo On Jul 7, 2014, at 3:38 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dar= t-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable. >=20 > Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains th= e limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as wel= l in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an informational RFC. = Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft is the best current w= ay forward towards meeting the milestone. It does not in any way mean that = we believe the draft complete or entirely correct.=20 >=20 > The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp= -rtp-02. >=20 > Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July 21= . >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Mon Jul 7 12:56:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626A81B28B5 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:56:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8K3w3Kqq3H0M for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 546B81B28A8 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s67JuqUG069452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:56:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 426455812.458583-cc929bf89ad794f5e3e491162f201d22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 14:56:52 -0500 To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/DvFzajcZgdUmeRbM2FVUjM54OzU Subject: [Dart] Preliminary Agenda for Toronto X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 19:56:55 -0000 Hi, Here's our preliminary agenda for the dart meeting at IETF90 in Toronto. = We requested an hour, but were scheduled for 1.5 hours. I've kept the = scheduled part to the requested hour, and we can use the rest for = additional discussion if needed. Please send any comments, bashing, or other feedback to the dart list as = soon as possible. Thanks! Ben. = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------- DART (IETF 90 - Toronto, CA) -- Wednesday 4 March 2014 1520-1650 *** Agenda: -- Introduction and Agenda Bashing -- 10 min (Chair) -- DiffServ and Real-time Communication (David Black) -- 50 min http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 -- Open Discussion -- Any remaining time and energy From nobody Mon Jul 7 13:07:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E671B28DE for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:07:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L8R_DBIwS5Jh for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3EBF1B28B6 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id w10so5837819pde.24 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UyKqbc5bfs/2KMCQAk91OiWbXF2wLXsS6UMm0aCnFxw=; b=AFHYhwGpFZcntdRcX/vndYv7VZSgjRtjl0PM2emMkY4dap7gH3V7YgP1e132D2R+gJ J6M7A//ZQC9hGhgdgZz3zCd9TZTsGr8LWNV2WUuBAiOnzRAaY5yKrcSvmNR5piIZMNeS AAnxaiPMjn+ZhUyHqX41/6WbeteuoCPXKvMkOBHTRKM07NW6Np+i88nPWvjWpbkD0MB/ 5yTzKI6uPS6z1yiO1hbdd9w6jjp9wRM2KlAtmuGBPY2IttCD+aLnWuD4htrS3sF6WfHX dZd/bbLH3MDVw6/4uRr+FTqU9Q6TVzdgYrcWmZWAzrztUvRHaEe2x4jtnzHJtf5xNuFZ ujgA== X-Received: by 10.70.88.17 with SMTP id bc17mr686988pdb.45.1404763648617; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (89.197.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.197.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id jb5sm53482949pbd.73.2014.07.07.13.07.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53BAFDFF.1080302@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:07:27 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/q3NGEJumEyXgGGnqPl6Q6S99OGs Cc: dart@ietf.org, draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 20:07:30 -0000 On 08/07/2014 07:38, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable. Yes, I think it's completely in line with the chartered deliverable. Brian From nobody Mon Jul 7 16:46:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11EA11B298F for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.642 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.642 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_ALL=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EGZ0hog7psMS for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dublin.packetizer.com (dublin.packetizer.com [75.101.130.125]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B89891B298C for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.30.0.46] (pc6.renaissance-unet.ocn.ne.jp [222.151.229.94]) (authenticated bits=0) by dublin.packetizer.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s67Nk1tf024757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 19:46:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=packetizer.com; s=dublin; t=1404776765; bh=UM+3Oiznz1X0R+zTQ4CizZITYZTIWcEMqvpPPkNFE6c=; h=In-Reply-To:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:From:Date:To:CC:Message-ID; b=feQBjBJfxOl6+t8P/ob7g+jGLaGbNkuDwW2TSJha8YfTz1+D857qJ/VD1A4fF00hi OicnmcRogMtUPOzV4+8VHY1AArUgUa4k57vJT0ArjcKveWqX1Ibsk82v87RyebjnN9 eT11oa813CtezY2LhfNGV1AYz83LfwySkDepxgsw= User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----4H6Q4E20FBO7A35KCATJR0278WPDZB" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Paul E. Jones" Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:45:59 +0900 To: Ben Campbell , dart@ietf.org Message-ID: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/4r3bq-7MkVElWHR2eUBib0V1jfs Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:46:08 -0000 ------4H6Q4E20FBO7A35KCATJR0278WPDZB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Of course, I support this. Paul -------- Original Message -------- From: Ben Campbell Sent: July 8, 2014 4:38:35 AM GMT+09:00 To: dart@ietf.org Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Hi Everyone, This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable. Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely correct. The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02. Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July 21. Thanks! Ben. ------4H6Q4E20FBO7A35KCATJR0278WPDZB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Of course, I support this.

Paul

From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Sent: July 8, 2014 4:38:35 AM GMT+09:00
To: dart@ietf.org
Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02?

Hi Everyone,

This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable.

Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely correct. 

The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02.

Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July 21.

Thanks!

Ben.
------4H6Q4E20FBO7A35KCATJR0278WPDZB-- From nobody Mon Jul 7 17:02:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56D781B2998 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:01:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S6zyfokYxXQf for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D24721B2994 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 17:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd53.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd53.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.157]) by mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6801k8e013936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:01:46 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com s6801k8e013936 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1404777707; bh=bv80mhecv+Y2SPRWoadRpVCC4ok=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=Hdv6XKHSjJE9CH8uTp/jc0uc4krzRuUDoE2fZ+iAN85IRSQYj9Ew5RhjCOzmA9ZFB O//Qb5TspYERL5V+YjWT3ec574mr9VfeOiHgcl6MnzGguqdwEeswMsQrSgeJmDhfov f33NbwoL32pl0NJmyGYobG6CmwIBYB7uTLGFKEB0= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com s6801k8e013936 Received: from mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.24]) by maildlpprd53.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:01:39 -0400 Received: from mxhub16.corp.emc.com (mxhub16.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.237]) by mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6801bGB006025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:01:37 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.248]) by mxhub16.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.237]) with mapi; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:01:37 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "Paul E. Jones" , Ben Campbell , "dart@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:01:36 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Thread-Index: Ac+aPabr5Eh5t/qbRJO87KTvogvd8wAAg7pQ Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077018D0A8@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077018D0A8MX15Acorpemcc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/hMiYfRYarXcqwbryWdWJSnOAOug Cc: "draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? 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Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B86D1B29AC for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 18:53:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UrLAjkMv-ulq for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 18:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2lp0212.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.212]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A14C1B2941 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 18:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.154) by BLUPR06MB242.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.980.8; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:53:25 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.41]) by BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.26]) with mapi id 15.00.0980.000; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:53:25 +0000 From: Dan York To: "Black, David" Thread-Topic: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Thread-Index: AQHPmhsPs5CnP349bEuAdryYrYOa9JuVRv6AgAAEXQCAAB86AA== Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:53:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077018D0A8@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077018D0A8@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2604:6000:9fc0:53:801e:5527:2cfe:8df6] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 0266491E90 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(53754006)(24454002)(189002)(199002)(377454003)(41574002)(92566001)(31966008)(74662001)(77096002)(92726001)(81542001)(81342001)(16236675004)(36756003)(2656002)(76176999)(15395725005)(99286002)(95666004)(46102001)(83322001)(83716003)(19580405001)(74502001)(76482001)(83072002)(85852003)(15975445006)(64706001)(82746002)(101416001)(15202345003)(33656002)(19580395003)(85306003)(20776003)(79102001)(4396001)(110136001)(50986999)(107046002)(105586002)(80022001)(21056001)(86362001)(14971765001)(54356999)(99396002)(106356001)(106116001)(87936001)(104396001)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB242; H:BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C07463D2DD594791A9BD77AC1FCEE938isocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/-PqtT3RhBF-_SuDNnmNtS8iAeJg Cc: "Paul E. Jones" , "dart@ietf.org" , "draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org" , Ben Campbell Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 01:53:37 -0000 --_000_C07463D2DD594791A9BD77AC1FCEE938isocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And similarly, it perhaps goes without saying that I support it, too. :-) -- Dan York Senior Content Strategist, Internet Society york@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 Jabber: york@jabber.isoc.org Skype: danyork http://twitter.com/danyork http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/ On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:01 PM, "Black, David" > wrote: +1 ;-) --David From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal= f Of Paul E. Jones Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 7:46 PM To: Ben Campbell; dart@ietf.org Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Of course, I support this. Paul ________________________________ From: Ben Campbell > Sent: July 8, 2014 4:38:35 AM GMT+09:00 To: dart@ietf.org Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Hi Everyone, This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dart-= dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable. Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains the = limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well = in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an informational RFC. Ke= ep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft is the best current way= forward towards meeting the milestone. It does not in any way mean that we= believe the draft complete or entirely correct. The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-r= tp-02. Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July 21. Thanks! Ben. _______________________________________________ Dart mailing list Dart@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart --_000_C07463D2DD594791A9BD77AC1FCEE938isocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2C333E9DD39DC04984331FF91268BC04@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And similarly, it perhaps goes without saying that I support it, too.  = ;:-)
--
Dan York
Senior Content Strategist, Internet Socie= ty
york@iso= c.org   +1-802-735-1624
Skype: danyork   http://twitter.com/danyork


On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:01 PM, "Black, David" <david.black@emc.com>
 wrote:

+1 ;-) --David
 =
From:=  Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul E. Jo= nes
Sent: Monday, July= 07, 2014 7:46 PM
To: Ben Campbell; = dart@ietf.org
Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.a= ll@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Dart= ] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02?
 

Of course, I support this.

Paul

From:=  Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Sent: July 8, 2014= 4:38:35 AM GMT+09:00
To: da= rt@ietf.org
Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org=
Subject: Consensus= Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02?
 
Hi Everyone,

This is a consensus call on whether we (dar=
t) should adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft toward=
s our chartered deliverable.

Our charter describes the deliverable a=
s "... a document that explains the limitations that exist with DiffSe=
rv when used with RTP in general as well in the specific RTCWeb cases."=
;, to be published as an informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption mean=
s we believe the draft is the best current way forward towards meeting the =
milestone. It does not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete o=
r entirely correct. 

The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rt=
p-02.

Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by =
Monday, July 21.

Thanks!

Ben.
_______________________________________________
Dart mailing list
Dart@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart

--_000_C07463D2DD594791A9BD77AC1FCEE938isocorg_-- From nobody Mon Jul 7 20:09:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3ED31B29F3 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:09:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZrWtO9WFk_pa for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E81F81A00C6 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 20:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6838sdR085546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 7 Jul 2014 22:08:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 22:08:54 -0500 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 426481734.186828-ad84d207815e7e559fd956ddbd874bb5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <682D267D-31EC-45D8-A12F-B0458B759CBA@nostrum.com> References: To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/zTZI_ojiHjSo09D61TOUvgaOuxQ Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 03:09:03 -0000 (As individual) For the record, I support adoption. Thanks! Ben. On Jul 7, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt = draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our = chartered deliverable. >=20 > Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains = the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general = as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an = informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft = is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does = not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely = correct.=20 >=20 > The draft is available at = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02. >=20 > Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July = 21. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Tue Jul 8 00:07:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E686F1B2A5C for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 00:07:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAq6x_RrzBJQ for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 00:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail33.telekom.de (tcmail33.telekom.de [80.149.113.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DE5D1A0339 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 00:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he113657.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.99.17]) by tcmail31.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 08 Jul 2014 09:06:55 +0200 Received: from HE111643.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.12]) by HE113657.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:06:55 +0200 From: To: , Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:06:55 +0200 Thread-Topic: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Thread-Index: Ac+aGw8rB/dQLo9tTciIiFyo+wQExQAYBm5Q Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/_oRuJ-QP1zcYzIjkoxHsBkZaM-Q Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:07:03 -0000 I support adoption. Regards, Ruediger -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Ben Campbell Gesendet: Montag, 7. Juli 2014 21:39 An: dart@ietf.org Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Betreff: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? Hi Everyone, This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt draft-york-dart-= dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our chartered deliverable. Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains the = limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general as well = in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an informational RFC. Ke= ep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft is the best current way= forward towards meeting the milestone. It does not in any way mean that we= believe the draft complete or entirely correct.=20 The draft is available at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-r= tp-02. Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July 21. Thanks! Ben. _______________________________________________ Dart mailing list Dart@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Wed Jul 9 07:45:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67BD71A0AC5 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XYYSKtZX4--1 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F79E1A040B for ; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s69Eisgx069594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 9 Jul 2014 09:44:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 09:44:55 -0500 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 426609895.037665-5882d34e63d1b12dcc44f868d5da99ae Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <24F19024-19AF-41D0-BCC1-317B34D01829@nostrum.com> References: To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/ThPdkKenLQ9oz6WSwVXVkLIg8h4 Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 14:44:58 -0000 Hi Everyone, Note that we are chartered for an informational RFC, and the draft is = currently labeled "standards track". If we adopt (and the discussion so = far has been in favor of doing so), it would be as an informational, = with the expectation that the "draft-ietf-dart-*" version would be = labeled as informational. Thanks! Ben. On Jul 7, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt = draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our = chartered deliverable. >=20 > Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains = the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general = as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an = informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft = is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does = not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely = correct.=20 >=20 > The draft is available at = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02. >=20 > Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July = 21. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Sun Jul 20 11:06:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B911C1B293A for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ldnZkapU2hAF for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E25981B2938 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (dhcp-8c60.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.96]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KI6CpZ046642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:06:14 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host dhcp-8c60.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.96] claimed to be [10.0.1.4] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 427572371.48065-97e627f9577fe65fac683b7874a4d14b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Message-Id: <8F644C6C-A9EE-4003-BCCD-649545FCEE58@nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:06:11 -0400 To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/_9urBKPIJFqGha-_X38CNBPMxbM Subject: [Dart] Minutes Taker and Jabber Scribe X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:06:16 -0000 Hi Everyone, In order to get Wednesday's meeting started as quickly as possible, I'd = like to solicit some volunteers in advance: -- Note Taker: Capture issues, resolutions, and action items. More = detail at your discretion, but a play-by-play is not required. A backup = note taker would be nice, in case the primary one wants to go to the = mike, etc. -- Jabber Scribe: Mainly monitor the jabber room for participants = wanting to send comments to the mike. Otherwise, send anything that = helps remote participants follow the conversation (e.g. speaker names, = slide numbers, etc.) A transcript of the meeting is not required.=20 Please note that we cannot start the meeting without at least one note = taker and a jabber scribe. Conscription is an option--please don't make = me invoke it. :-) Thanks! Ben. From nobody Sun Jul 20 11:35:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2411B2968 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:35:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMpBEldhqdMx for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C7661B2954 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 11:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (dhcp-8c60.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.96]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6KIZI2G049123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:35:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host dhcp-8c60.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.140.96] claimed to be [10.0.1.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <8F644C6C-A9EE-4003-BCCD-649545FCEE58@nostrum.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:35:17 -0400 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 427574117.475538-6fb1a742685f799a1eb62e22b674f43f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8F644C6C-A9EE-4003-BCCD-649545FCEE58@nostrum.com> To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/8OXuHoVWO6SnU79Y8yEhiMNzbXc Cc: Varun Singh Subject: Re: [Dart] Minutes Taker and Jabber Scribe X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:35:27 -0000 Varun Singh volunteered to take notes. Many thanks to Varun, both from = me and all those participants saved from conscription :-) We are still looking for a jabber scribe. Thanks! Ben. On Jul 20, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > In order to get Wednesday's meeting started as quickly as possible, = I'd like to solicit some volunteers in advance: >=20 > -- Note Taker: Capture issues, resolutions, and action items. More = detail at your discretion, but a play-by-play is not required. A backup = note taker would be nice, in case the primary one wants to go to the = mike, etc. >=20 > -- Jabber Scribe: Mainly monitor the jabber room for participants = wanting to send comments to the mike. Otherwise, send anything that = helps remote participants follow the conversation (e.g. speaker names, = slide numbers, etc.) A transcript of the meeting is not required.=20 >=20 > Please note that we cannot start the meeting without at least one note = taker and a jabber scribe. Conscription is an option--please don't make = me invoke it. :-) >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Sun Jul 20 12:40:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C3681B29FB for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:40:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y9j6pg7YNhVA for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2lp0209.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.209]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CBC21B29D8 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.154) by BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.191.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.985.8; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:40:30 +0000 Received: from BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.99]) by BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.2.99]) with mapi id 15.00.0985.008; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:40:30 +0000 From: Dan York To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [Dart] Minutes Taker and Jabber Scribe Thread-Index: AQHPpEVRq7KmUuX7NEuFPpkPslc+XZupSimAgAASNwA= Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:40:29 +0000 Message-ID: <6D0322B2-D2A3-45F5-9643-BDE05AAEB9F5@isoc.org> References: <8F644C6C-A9EE-4003-BCCD-649545FCEE58@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.162.161] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 02788FF38E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(377454003)(24454002)(53754006)(66654002)(189002)(199002)(41574002)(15395725005)(16236675004)(81342001)(15975445006)(106356001)(46102001)(64706001)(20776003)(80022001)(66066001)(105586002)(36756003)(4396001)(95666004)(99286002)(77096002)(106116001)(85306003)(76482001)(82746002)(79102001)(77982001)(101416001)(19580405001)(83322001)(19580395003)(15202345003)(33656002)(107046002)(110136001)(86362001)(83716003)(87936001)(21056001)(2656002)(83072002)(85852003)(19617315012)(92726001)(54356999)(99396002)(31966008)(92566001)(76176999)(50986999)(74662001)(74502001)(81542001)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB243; H:BLUPR06MB243.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6D0322B2D2A345F59643BDE05AAEB9F5isocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/LtZT2UmARsLGlvL7RrodxXa89HE Cc: "dart@ietf.org" , Varun Singh Subject: Re: [Dart] Minutes Taker and Jabber Scribe X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:40:41 -0000 --_000_6D0322B2D2A345F59643BDE05AAEB9F5isocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben, If there are no other volunteers I could potentially be the jabber scribe. = I often jabber scribe in sessions and so I don't mind. My little bit of r= eluctance is that as the editor of the main DART document, I need to be foc= used on hearing what people are providing for feedback that can be incorpor= ated into the document. So I'd really prefer if someone else were doing th= e jabber scribing. Dan -- Dan York Senior Content Strategist, Internet Society york@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 Jabber: york@jabber.isoc.org Skype: danyork http://twitter.com/danyork http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/ On Jul 20, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Ben Campbell > wrote: Varun Singh volunteered to take notes. Many thanks to Varun, both from me a= nd all those participants saved from conscription :-) We are still looking for a jabber scribe. Thanks! Ben. On Jul 20, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Ben Campbell > wrote: Hi Everyone, In order to get Wednesday's meeting started as quickly as possible, I'd lik= e to solicit some volunteers in advance: -- Note Taker: Capture issues, resolutions, and action items. More detail a= t your discretion, but a play-by-play is not required. A backup note taker = would be nice, in case the primary one wants to go to the mike, etc. -- Jabber Scribe: Mainly monitor the jabber room for participants wanting t= o send comments to the mike. Otherwise, send anything that helps remote par= ticipants follow the conversation (e.g. speaker names, slide numbers, etc.)= A transcript of the meeting is not required. Please note that we cannot start the meeting without at least one note take= r and a jabber scribe. Conscription is an option--please don't make me invo= ke it. :-) Thanks! Ben. _______________________________________________ Dart mailing list Dart@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart _______________________________________________ Dart mailing list Dart@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart --_000_6D0322B2D2A345F59643BDE05AAEB9F5isocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <35B7689E5D981A49A5A0DAF641905B8C@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ben,

If there are no other volunteers I could potentially be the jabber scr= ibe.  I often jabber scribe in sessions and so I don't mind.  My = little bit of reluctance is that as the editor of the main DART document, I= need to be focused on hearing what people are providing for feedback that can be incorporated into the document. &nb= sp;So I'd really prefer if someone else were doing the jabber scribing.

Dan

--
Dan York
Senior Content Strategist, Internet Socie= ty
york@iso= c.org   +1-802-735-1624
Skype: danyork   http://twitter.com/danyork


On Jul 20, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
 wrote:

Varun Singh volunteered to take notes. Many thank= s to Varun, both from me and all those participants saved from conscription= :-)

We are still looking for a jabber scribe.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jul 20, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

In order to get Wednesday's meeting started as quickly as possible, I'd lik= e to solicit some volunteers in advance:

-- Note Taker: Capture issues, resolutions, and action items. More detail a= t your discretion, but a play-by-play is not required. A backup note taker = would be nice, in case the primary one wants to go to the mike, etc.

-- Jabber Scribe: Mainly monitor the jabber room for participants wanting t= o send comments to the mike. Otherwise, send anything that helps remote par= ticipants follow the conversation (e.g. speaker names, slide numbers, etc.)= A transcript of the meeting is not required.

Please note that we cannot start the meeting without at least one note take= r and a jabber scribe. Conscription is an option--please don't make me invo= ke it.  :-)

Thanks!

Ben.

_______________________________________________
Dart mailing list
Dart@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart

_______________________________________________
Dart mailing list
Dart@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart

--_000_6D0322B2D2A345F59643BDE05AAEB9F5isocorg_-- From nobody Sun Jul 20 17:51:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3741B2A70; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:51:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57ZS7kBKMGWK; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 015891B2A68; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd55.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd55.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.159]) by mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6L0pPFL027100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:51:26 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com s6L0pPFL027100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1405903886; bh=SVxmqDBMJhw8MNqyAIwU+C/X6xI=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=Zjwtj2BxbKoWPlK4SjQpSWbFFftWKq3gVw1QVXnlC+YS+fAaJzQezapIzC+yPSiTJ JtQc5BnDqpkgOGXwFeH//xv4waMDrn3Qj1cM2ifZyKxiFh4DRRUO7buyTG/Av5iPyw ee24S4YX/bB8GWHh6DqAZa2ATzMrebKta2cQQAGs= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd51.lss.emc.com s6L0pPFL027100 Received: from mailusrhubprd01.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd01.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.19]) by maildlpprd55.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:51:15 -0400 Received: from mxhub12.corp.emc.com (mxhub12.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.107]) by mailusrhubprd01.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6L0pEEA001721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:51:14 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub12.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.107]) with mapi; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:51:14 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 20:51:12 -0400 Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt Thread-Index: AQLxFDM79VKa65qAlrEeSSnrsrTmeZlmc0rggABeiUA= Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd01.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/kLf6UL-jyTPWi5pbagFZSuNNLwg Cc: rmcat WG , "Black, David" , "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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s6L20ZD3026482 Received: from mailusrhubprd52.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd52.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.25]) by maildlpprd05.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:00:30 -0400 Received: from mxhub11.corp.emc.com (mxhub11.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.106]) by mailusrhubprd52.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6L20Tud015443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:00:30 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub11.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.106]) with mapi; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:00:29 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 22:00:28 -0400 Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt Thread-Index: AQLxFDM79VKa65qAlrEeSSnrsrTmeQI8PUdIAZ7WDh+ZR/+qsIAAC7Xw Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6399@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd52.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/MYTosbbpmFNOmvkpUOSEUC6d8AI Cc: rmcat WG , "Black, David" , "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: 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PiA+IGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvDQo= From nobody Mon Jul 21 04:08:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DA01B2B8D; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:08:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJyskRcg4oMG; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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[31.133.140.161]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id lk7sm36836510wjb.24.2014.07.21.04.08.37 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53CCF4B1.6030004@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 23:08:33 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Black, David" References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6399@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6399@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/J4DYn2foSN0UFL1vKpZG5WN_khs Cc: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" , rmcat WG , "dart@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:08:47 -0000 On 21/07/2014 14:00, Black, David wrote: > Karen, > >>> What's the rationale for "certainly isn't viable" regarding different drop >>> precedences within a single SCTP session? >> [Karen] Ok - "certainly not viable" is too strong formulation. >> Having different drop precedences within the same SCTP CC context would, >> given that SCTP CC presently is drop driven only, >> results in that the whole data channel is impacted, from a CC perspective, >> by the highest drop precedence. But I realize that whether this is >> acceptable is a question indeed. > > I think you're on to something here. If the drop precedences only came into > play after the decision to drop a packet had been made, their effect would > probably be minimal, as they would only affect what to drop in a session, not > how much to drop. OTOH, DiffServ AF is not intended to operate in that fashion > - the rationale for the 3 drop precedences per AF class was based on envisioning > the output of two-threshold rate shaper: > AFx1 - Within base or committed traffic profile > AFx2 - Beyond base/committed, but within excess or burst traffic profile > AFx3 - Completely out of profile > > Hence the relative mix of those drop precedences can be expected to affect > the overall drop rate/probability seen in a session where those precedences > are mixed. Yes. And it was clearly aimed at layered video, such that there was a benefit to the end user in dropping the least important layer during lossy periods. With anything like a TCP-like congestion control algorithm in sight, the effects may be completely bizarre. Brian > > Thanks, > --David > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Karen E. Egede Nielsen [mailto:karen.nielsen@tieto.com] >> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 9:20 PM >> To: Black, David; tsvwg@ietf.org >> Cc: rmcat WG; dart@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >> >> Hi, >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] >>> Sent: 21. juli 2014 02:51 >>> To: Karen E. Egede Nielsen; tsvwg@ietf.org >>> Cc: rmcat WG; dart@ietf.org; Black, David >>> Subject: RE: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >>> >>> Karen, >>> >>> , [+dart list] >>> >>>> I wonder if the recommendations of this document should not relate to >>>> the viability (or rather the opposite) of handling different RTCWEB >>>> data channels individually from a DSCP markings perspective. Or more >>>> generally relate to the fact that media streams within the same >>>> congestion control context cannot be handled individually. >>>> Right now such considerations are not in the document. If the >>>> intention is for such consideration to come in documents from the dart >>>> wg, then it would be very important to have a reference to this >>>> dependency - or ? >>> IMHO, such a reference is necessary, although the dart WG draft will be >>> informational. The reference should be added once there is an official >>> dart >>> WG draft (likely to happen this week). >>> >>>> Something else: >>>> >>>> Right now the document stipulates that packets within the same media >>>> stream may be marked with different DSCP codepoints, i.e., it is said: >>>> >>>> One may select difference drop precedences for the >>>> different packets in the media flow. Therefore, all packets in the >>>> stream SHOULD be marked with the same priority but can have >>>> difference drop precedences. >>>> >>>> which indeed is in compliance with the recommendations put forward in >>>> draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-00 in that >>>> it ensures that the DSCP markings do not result in re-ordering >>>> within the media flow, but has it been ascertained, from a CC >>>> perspective that usage of different drop precedence within the same CC >>>> context is viable ? >>> Good question - I will include that in my slides for the dart WG meeting. >>> >>>> >From the RTCWEB data channel perspective this certainly isn't viable >>>>> (being >>>> SCTP based), >>>> whether it is viable from an RMCAT CC perspective is something that we >>>> in the RMCAT wg would need to make more clear. >>> What's the rationale for "certainly isn't viable" regarding different drop >>> precedences within a single SCTP session? >> [Karen] Ok - "certainly not viable" is too strong formulation. >> Having different drop precedences within the same SCTP CC context would, >> given that SCTP CC presently is drop driven only, >> results in that the whole data channel is impacted, from a CC perspective, >> by the highest drop precedence. But I realize that whether this is >> acceptable is a question indeed. >> >>> Thanks, >>> --David (as an editor of draft-york, *not* as a tsvwg WG chair) >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Karen E. >>>> Egede Nielsen >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:49 PM >>>> To: tsvwg@ietf.org >>>> Cc: rmcat WG >>>> Subject: Re: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Please accept the following comments: >>>> >>>> I wonder if the recommendations of this document should not relate to >>>> the viability (or rather the opposite) of handling different RTCWEB >>>> data channels individually from a DSCP markings perspective. Or more >>>> generally relate to the fact that media streams within the same >>>> congestion control context cannot be handled individually. >>>> Right now such considerations are not in the document. If the >>>> intention is for such consideration to come in documents from the dart >>>> wg, then it would be very important to have a reference to this >>>> dependency - or ? >>>> >>>> Something else: >>>> >>>> Right now the document stipulates that packets within the same media >>>> stream may be marked with different DSCP codepoints, i.e., it is said: >>>> >>>> One may select difference drop precedences for the >>>> different packets in the media flow. Therefore, all packets in the >>>> stream SHOULD be marked with the same priority but can have >>>> difference drop precedences. >>>> >>>> which indeed is in compliance with the recommendations put forward in >>>> draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-00 in that >>>> it ensures that the DSCP markings do not result in re-ordering >>>> within the media flow, but has it been ascertained, from a CC >>>> perspective that usage of different drop precedence within the same CC >>>> context is viable ? >>>> >>>> >From the RTCWEB data channel perspective this certainly isn't viable >>>>> (being >>>> SCTP based), >>>> whether it is viable from an RMCAT CC perspective is something that we >>>> in the RMCAT wg would need to make more clear. >>>> >>>> BR, Karen >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- >>>>> drafts@ietf.org >>>>> Sent: 23. juni 2014 21:12 >>>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>> directories. >>>>> This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group >>>>> Working Group of the IETF. >>>>> >>>>> Title : DSCP and other packet markings for RTCWeb >>>>> QoS >>>>> Authors : Subha Dhesikan >>>>> Cullen Jennings >>>>> Dan Druta >>>>> Paul Jones >>>>> James Polk >>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >>>>> Pages : 7 >>>>> Date : 2014-06-23 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> Many networks, such as service provider and enterprise networks, >>>>> can >>>>> provide per packet treatments based on Differentiated Services Code >>>>> Points (DSCP) on a per-hop basis. This document provides the >>>>> recommended DSCP values for browsers to use for various classes of >>>>> traffic. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos/ >>>>> >>>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02 >>>>> >>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >>>>> tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 21 05:14:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 612C91B2D4A; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6z9yxx9ClsHv; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out4.uio.no (mail-out4.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A2A1B2884; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 05:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx3.uio.no ([129.240.10.44]) by mail-out4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1X9CTI-0003KY-9v; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:13:36 +0200 Received: from dhcp-8bda.meeting.ietf.org ([31.133.139.218]) by mail-mx3.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1X9CTH-00040B-LZ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:13:36 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <53CCF4B1.6030004@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:13:31 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6399@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <53CCF4B1.6030004@gmail.com> To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 11 msgs/h 4 sum rcpts/h 12 sum msgs/h 5 total rcpts 18561 max rcpts/h 44 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 6024BC657B88BEF5A70F9DE2D49E9E0F5F1A2150 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 31.133.139.218 spam_score: -49 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 4 total 37 max/h 5 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/J2w8JXeW1YsY1kwuljP6W2k77b8 Cc: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" , rmcat WG , "Black, David" , "dart@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 12:14:02 -0000 On 21. juli 2014, at 13:08, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: > On 21/07/2014 14:00, Black, David wrote: >> Karen, >>=20 >>>> What's the rationale for "certainly isn't viable" regarding = different drop >>>> precedences within a single SCTP session? >>> [Karen] Ok - "certainly not viable" is too strong formulation. >>> Having different drop precedences within the same SCTP CC context = would, >>> given that SCTP CC presently is drop driven only, >>> results in that the whole data channel is impacted, from a CC = perspective, >>> by the highest drop precedence. But I realize that whether this is >>> acceptable is a question indeed. >>=20 >> I think you're on to something here. If the drop precedences only = came into >> play after the decision to drop a packet had been made, their effect = would >> probably be minimal, as they would only affect what to drop in a = session, not >> how much to drop. OTOH, DiffServ AF is not intended to operate in = that fashion >> - the rationale for the 3 drop precedences per AF class was based on = envisioning >> the output of two-threshold rate shaper: >> AFx1 - Within base or committed traffic profile >> AFx2 - Beyond base/committed, but within excess or burst traffic = profile >> AFx3 - Completely out of profile >>=20 >> Hence the relative mix of those drop precedences can be expected to = affect >> the overall drop rate/probability seen in a session where those = precedences >> are mixed. >=20 > Yes. And it was clearly aimed at layered video, such that there was > a benefit to the end user in dropping the least important layer > during lossy periods. With anything like a TCP-like congestion > control algorithm in sight, the effects may be completely bizarre. Reordering could make this even worse. Could different drop precedences = cause reordering? Cheers, Michael From nobody Mon Jul 21 06:02:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CCF1B2946; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:02:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wg5zoM07g8SA; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 072721B2BC1; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.160]) by mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6LD2ai5007565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:02:37 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com s6LD2ai5007565 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1405947758; bh=24HeUWi1xnoe1yrrz34OJ548KIk=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=SVmsml5QfwXNMs+RagKsrHLUOIX0b/Chv5HnxTdzmbNCavHNjLR+8sXMRiN+clRND j1kuXHxoV7aCmCpLOm1D0r8FFYEBQy3uyv4Yt6Y69wDVYORhDOAcji4h1if9qeiSt5 H8uqIgpXfUH9sRl4j39DQ6bHgjnZpLiKfQvNSZzA= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd52.lss.emc.com s6LD2ai5007565 Received: from mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.20]) by maildlpprd56.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:02:20 -0400 Received: from mxhub20.corp.emc.com (mxhub20.corp.emc.com [10.254.93.49]) by mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6LD2JuI005897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:02:19 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub20.corp.emc.com ([10.254.93.49]) with mapi; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:02:19 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Michael Welzl , Brian E Carpenter Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:02:17 -0400 Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt Thread-Index: Ac+k3TTr8iUPhOT8Qg+6sRLudWbtEAABnElQ Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6420@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6399@MX15A.corp.emc.com> <53CCF4B1.6030004@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd02.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/huigp1WUPUCXORQDjkFVQ9jI1R4 Cc: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" , rmcat WG , "dart@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:02:48 -0000 > >> Hence the relative mix of those drop precedences can be expected to af= fect > >> the overall drop rate/probability seen in a session where those preced= ences > >> are mixed. > > > > Yes. And it was clearly aimed at layered video, such that there was > > a benefit to the end user in dropping the least important layer > > during lossy periods. With anything like a TCP-like congestion > > control algorithm in sight, the effects may be completely bizarre. >=20 > Reordering could make this even worse. Could different drop precedences c= ause > reordering? No, packets MUST NOT be reordered among the three drop precedences within an AF class (e.g., AF2x). See RFC 2597 and draft-york. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Welzl [mailto:michawe@ifi.uio.no] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 8:14 AM > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: Black, David; Karen E. Egede Nielsen; rmcat WG; dart@ietf.org; > tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt >=20 >=20 > On 21. juli 2014, at 13:08, Brian E Carpenter > wrote: >=20 > > On 21/07/2014 14:00, Black, David wrote: > >> Karen, > >> > >>>> What's the rationale for "certainly isn't viable" regarding differen= t > drop > >>>> precedences within a single SCTP session? > >>> [Karen] Ok - "certainly not viable" is too strong formulation. > >>> Having different drop precedences within the same SCTP CC context wou= ld, > >>> given that SCTP CC presently is drop driven only, > >>> results in that the whole data channel is impacted, from a CC perspec= tive, > >>> by the highest drop precedence. But I realize that whether this is > >>> acceptable is a question indeed. > >> > >> I think you're on to something here. If the drop precedences only cam= e > into > >> play after the decision to drop a packet had been made, their effect w= ould > >> probably be minimal, as they would only affect what to drop in a sessi= on, > not > >> how much to drop. OTOH, DiffServ AF is not intended to operate in tha= t > fashion > >> - the rationale for the 3 drop precedences per AF class was based on > envisioning > >> the output of two-threshold rate shaper: > >> AFx1 - Within base or committed traffic profile > >> AFx2 - Beyond base/committed, but within excess or burst traffic prof= ile > >> AFx3 - Completely out of profile > >> > >> Hence the relative mix of those drop precedences can be expected to af= fect > >> the overall drop rate/probability seen in a session where those preced= ences > >> are mixed. > > > > Yes. And it was clearly aimed at layered video, such that there was > > a benefit to the end user in dropping the least important layer > > during lossy periods. With anything like a TCP-like congestion > > control algorithm in sight, the effects may be completely bizarre. >=20 > Reordering could make this even worse. Could different drop precedences c= ause > reordering? >=20 > Cheers, > Michael From nobody Mon Jul 21 06:15:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8E91B2A66 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:22:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ppXHo_PyvYCP for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x229.google.com (mail-we0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24A8A1B2AB4 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f169.google.com with SMTP id u56so6871048wes.28 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:22:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tieto.com; s=google; h=from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:thread-index:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=2uca0xtQTSvcVwGuCu2GzTY4S+XwcHnUNg8PVJD8SrI=; b=A5UCdKq4jG/19/WHE3e4cmgKGX0cnChFFuJDZW9zKQpfYYTiDVYWV/+aSgBw7iDBRF pYmA06wrtN17Z5O6qRCbMzxzjp+Va5YWdKo+0Z3ffUDJnQsTTkbdukilg0hCNwu7Vdxw u3qRkMAP5BTRfJBCQwVNaP8dfFCWG0Ux8BbVw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :thread-index:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=2uca0xtQTSvcVwGuCu2GzTY4S+XwcHnUNg8PVJD8SrI=; b=WRUW1cdk5eRDbV01RjYF0zcn8Swb5YN+7834N2HeQ2miFJ/wa6xG9MS7haE2TGACuE 7tIT/XkmVQQ1feiqcMCBC/o10DiRXQzmkaF9RyHcjuo1jkuPhQZW5OYjFvsJyol3ANZV rv3k/rslcgNIVItjWxaUTYXjrH73zEtT83FvjasBba6KyYinH32eUAz+DEv/l6G1F1/Z d9ORmHOLxMtD8gdmLeU6wZ5ahy5ygTOxbXHEQ/9HMj0N8t3Afetxn0HvArZUWS3uCKUw fUc6y+sPiqd9Qm2XfJhrcSIOkqVMV3C/vzimsDeUlbz5Q0n6xZYFImCEevowwdM8S7Q/ VMyg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlgjMrDrodV/ajbQnORKwcmEKY37pndGnr8NWrCZ1zVN6e2HM8XkRZJy0Rons50VMcF1tFd8VnlqkmJpSl2RkJh79T4uA== X-Received: by 10.180.24.225 with SMTP id x1mr4127258wif.14.1405905752331; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:22:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Karen E. Egede Nielsen" References: <20140623191132.21904.23978.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1373b5f3f2f88c06aafc0deb45287f61@mail.gmail.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6386@MX15A.corp.emc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLxFDM79VKa65qAlrEeSSnrsrTmeQI8PUdIAZ7WDh+ZR/+qsA== Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:20:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: "Black, David" , tsvwg@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-DomainID: tieto.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/-LIwzWGSCmPtCpvMTOaINUv_zDg X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 06:15:35 -0700 Cc: rmcat WG , dart@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:22:37 -0000 Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Black, David [mailto:david.black@emc.com] > Sent: 21. juli 2014 02:51 > To: Karen E. Egede Nielsen; tsvwg@ietf.org > Cc: rmcat WG; dart@ietf.org; Black, David > Subject: RE: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt > > Karen, > > , [+dart list] > > > I wonder if the recommendations of this document should not relate to > > the viability (or rather the opposite) of handling different RTCWEB > > data channels individually from a DSCP markings perspective. Or more > > generally relate to the fact that media streams within the same > > congestion control context cannot be handled individually. > > Right now such considerations are not in the document. If the > > intention is for such consideration to come in documents from the dart > > wg, then it would be very important to have a reference to this > > dependency - or ? > > IMHO, such a reference is necessary, although the dart WG draft will be > informational. The reference should be added once there is an official > dart > WG draft (likely to happen this week). > > > Something else: > > > > Right now the document stipulates that packets within the same media > > stream may be marked with different DSCP codepoints, i.e., it is said: > > > > One may select difference drop precedences for the > > different packets in the media flow. Therefore, all packets in the > > stream SHOULD be marked with the same priority but can have > > difference drop precedences. > > > > which indeed is in compliance with the recommendations put forward in > > draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-00 in that > > it ensures that the DSCP markings do not result in re-ordering > > within the media flow, but has it been ascertained, from a CC > > perspective that usage of different drop precedence within the same CC > > context is viable ? > > Good question - I will include that in my slides for the dart WG meeting. > > > >From the RTCWEB data channel perspective this certainly isn't viable > > >(being > > SCTP based), > > whether it is viable from an RMCAT CC perspective is something that we > > in the RMCAT wg would need to make more clear. > > What's the rationale for "certainly isn't viable" regarding different drop > precedences within a single SCTP session? [Karen] Ok - "certainly not viable" is too strong formulation. Having different drop precedences within the same SCTP CC context would, given that SCTP CC presently is drop driven only, results in that the whole data channel is impacted, from a CC perspective, by the highest drop precedence. But I realize that whether this is acceptable is a question indeed. > > Thanks, > --David (as an editor of draft-york, *not* as a tsvwg WG chair) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Karen E. > > Egede Nielsen > > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 4:49 PM > > To: tsvwg@ietf.org > > Cc: rmcat WG > > Subject: Re: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt > > > > Hi, > > > > Please accept the following comments: > > > > I wonder if the recommendations of this document should not relate to > > the viability (or rather the opposite) of handling different RTCWEB > > data channels individually from a DSCP markings perspective. Or more > > generally relate to the fact that media streams within the same > > congestion control context cannot be handled individually. > > Right now such considerations are not in the document. If the > > intention is for such consideration to come in documents from the dart > > wg, then it would be very important to have a reference to this > > dependency - or ? > > > > Something else: > > > > Right now the document stipulates that packets within the same media > > stream may be marked with different DSCP codepoints, i.e., it is said: > > > > One may select difference drop precedences for the > > different packets in the media flow. Therefore, all packets in the > > stream SHOULD be marked with the same priority but can have > > difference drop precedences. > > > > which indeed is in compliance with the recommendations put forward in > > draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-00 in that > > it ensures that the DSCP markings do not result in re-ordering > > within the media flow, but has it been ascertained, from a CC > > perspective that usage of different drop precedence within the same CC > > context is viable ? > > > > >From the RTCWEB data channel perspective this certainly isn't viable > > >(being > > SCTP based), > > whether it is viable from an RMCAT CC perspective is something that we > > in the RMCAT wg would need to make more clear. > > > > BR, Karen > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- > > > drafts@ietf.org > > > Sent: 23. juni 2014 21:12 > > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > > Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org > > > Subject: [tsvwg] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt > > > > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > > directories. > > > This draft is a work item of the Transport Area Working Group > > > Working Group of the IETF. > > > > > > Title : DSCP and other packet markings for RTCWeb > > > QoS > > > Authors : Subha Dhesikan > > > Cullen Jennings > > > Dan Druta > > > Paul Jones > > > James Polk > > > Filename : draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02.txt > > > Pages : 7 > > > Date : 2014-06-23 > > > > > > Abstract: > > > Many networks, such as service provider and enterprise networks, > > > can > > > provide per packet treatments based on Differentiated Services Code > > > Points (DSCP) on a per-hop basis. This document provides the > > > recommended DSCP values for browsers to use for various classes of > > > traffic. > > > > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos/ > > > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02 > > > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tsvwg-rtcweb-qos-02 > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > > > tools.ietf.org. > > > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 21 14:21:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81F41A03E5 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:21:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-x0n7ctuyBP for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76F2E1A02C1 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.187.199]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6LLLeHr054807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:21:42 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:21:35 -0400 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 427670495.417578-0faf6db9803cc7de235892adc64991d9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/wqs9z5Yg1BWgzuiSednIgNaiq4w Cc: draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] Consensus Call: Adopt draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02? X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:21:47 -0000 Hi Everyone, I've seen several comments in favor of adoption, and no objections. = Therefore, DART has adopted draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working = group draft. Authors, please submit a draft-ietf-dart-* version, labeled = as informational, at your convenience. Thanks! Ben. On Jul 7, 2014, at 3:38 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Hi Everyone, >=20 > This is a consensus call on whether we (dart) should adopt = draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02 as a working group draft towards our = chartered deliverable. >=20 > Our charter describes the deliverable as "... a document that explains = the limitations that exist with DiffServ when used with RTP in general = as well in the specific RTCWeb cases.", to be published as an = informational RFC. Keep in mind that adoption means we believe the draft = is the best current way forward towards meeting the milestone. It does = not in any way mean that we believe the draft complete or entirely = correct.=20 >=20 > The draft is available at = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-york-dart-dscp-rtp-02. >=20 > Please send you opinions and comments to the dart list by Monday, July = 21. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Tue Jul 22 11:33:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECD9A1B2B94 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:33:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jGXXWAdDis4A for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AFB41A0008 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.187.199]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6MIXE1u019775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:33:16 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 427746788.985726-db9236691f4068b7001f78d16b78a7f4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Message-Id: <8DCD6A41-3387-423E-929E-FDDAD182D98B@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:33:09 -0400 To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/ru_pPaEF4-GGW-vjugB-4INrm8k Subject: [Dart] Meeting Materials X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:33:19 -0000 Hi, The slides for tomorrow's meeting are available at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/90/materials.html#wg-dart . Also, we are still recruiting for a jabber scribe, and a backup note = taker for the meeting. These are great opportunities for glory and = admiration from your peers! Thanks! Ben. From nobody Tue Jul 22 11:58:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B091B279B for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:58:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKJ6_QJZFFFz for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC0C61A0442 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:58:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.38]) by mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6MIwcYT000867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:58:39 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com s6MIwcYT000867 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1406055519; bh=68YPlZxGqPiOOO7ANiPaQbFLld0=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=uKahkgQIO56Uv1Aktmq8FfXc+xtytEq9FiidbPgrZmxv+HeaTwKNrZR+77/3X0740 o8yake5qk3nAVAbpjYDj46KbV01uQ7spWazOAhehL0srAMb3hMlhWBkImMZi1v79YM EF2qXVp6XmsNNO3u82L9AgVWW1vRFVgw02wmhWZI= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd02.lss.emc.com s6MIwcYT000867 Received: from mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.18]) by maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:58:29 -0700 Received: from mxhub11.corp.emc.com (mxhub11.corp.emc.com [10.254.92.106]) by mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6MIwT59027769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:58:29 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub11.corp.emc.com ([10.254.92.106]) with mapi; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:58:29 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Ben Campbell , "dart@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:58:28 -0400 Thread-Topic: Two comments on draft-york-dscp-rtp Thread-Index: Ac+l3uwrhoLa9JWpQEOyWpuWzU5SFw== Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F673F@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/eXad8NulGr3sZZDvSxj0VigFlNI Subject: [Dart] Two comments on draft-york-dscp-rtp X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 18:58:46 -0000 And I'll get a jump on tomorrow's session by passing along two comments fro= m tsvwg discussion and an offline conversation today: 1) The SCTP language is insufficient. The SCTP language should be strengthened to bluntly state that SCTP congest= ion control operates at the SCTP association (session) level, and *therefor= e* use of PHBs and DSCPs that cause reordering among streams (or anything e= lse) within an SCTP association is a rather strong SHOULD NOT (modulo input= tomorrow on whether to use RFC 2119 keywords in an Informational draft). 2) The reference to RFC 5764 on mux/demux of DTLS, RTP and STUN is also ins= ufficient, as there are known problems w/that RFC. The reference to RFC 5764 should be complemented by a reference to draft-pe= tithuguenin-avtcore-rfc5764-mux-fixes: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petithuguenin-avtcore-rfc5764-mux-f= ixes/ Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Campbell > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:33 PM > To: dart@ietf.org > Subject: [Dart] Meeting Materials >=20 > Hi, >=20 > The slides for tomorrow's meeting are available at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/90/materials.html#wg-dart . >=20 > Also, we are still recruiting for a jabber scribe, and a backup note take= r for > the meeting. These are great opportunities for glory and admiration from = your > peers! >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > Ben. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Wed Jul 23 12:24:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93401B2B50 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WIukuDCLcjK4 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67EA51B2AC9 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id d1so2756350wiv.15 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=JMkrHqaLVWuM3rO0jZSQgv0jhoagHeVGGdq3jEUcv70=; b=uZ6q3E3SisjguEU+vVr37A3JXbeRuIxGjyv674HzqozYL/9J62U/xXes58TnnRbUfX 8j0yLHjp1DzqxsOXA5hQqgX6vhdy2NY+ZNNm8hOJL1Zr+3QQJNRp1g8qUp9PuNFYH7yd iGvr0CwBSADtPI9L4/h5hVAqv3f1PsancKkDbMvBZMN5TAbbxVJPNmGgQ7qxTaqgBrv5 5rmXrhncWD/G+T0oL3QIu3FQxaeUWyKswiQ44fhs3GWpOOsl3sR6g90cZlZ34SHWtm5g j23xe9vvd76j/M+UT8xDJoFBKWXnQT6KraPkrDe010j+g3yp6p4U10+EPGiA07m2WQZ2 L8YA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.5.39 with SMTP id cj7mr28154638wid.79.1406143486962; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.222.67 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:24:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mary Barnes To: dart@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134de480b380004fee14b7e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/3qE2gNk1hoYLYHvzcGoMEUHZkCk Subject: [Dart] Jabber X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:24:51 -0000 --001a1134de480b380004fee14b7e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 There is not jabber room for DART nor RAI. Can we try DISPATCH? It is up. Mary --001a1134de480b380004fee14b7e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is not jabber room for DART nor RAI. =C2=A0Can we tr= y DISPATCH? =C2=A0It is up.

Mary
--001a1134de480b380004fee14b7e-- From nobody Wed Jul 23 12:49:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA06F1A0204 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ly8xaziiTL7 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE48C1A014F for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=105; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1406144972; x=1407354572; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=yfSuP6gLdHpLdbqrkb4p4DB7Ccffpg1tuUDD5r5mUGo=; b=McEdiaVwZykvUxIjD/K69FF1aiFP5ecDW3d5+mxJkGbtXIGXefZ5rZ7Q XXaVGxEGc3Sh5yOLkR77Ej9Abd6rxG1DAocVdhiY+g+UgHaUvlhdlFmma IGljKWbHrO4RO6kodiCiHh7VhmES5y4Xs1sn1TNkpZnGSJowTRAbbkqCf o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhgFAP8Q0FOtJV2P/2dsb2JhbABZgw6BKQTPIQoBgQsWdoQFAQQ6PxIBKhRCJgEEDgUIiDrAGRePGjGDNYEYBa9tg0hsgUU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,719,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="342346942" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2014 19:49:31 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6NJnVSA025965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:49:31 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.235]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:49:30 -0500 From: "David Benham (dbenham)" To: "dart@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Use Dispatch Jabber for DART Thread-Index: Ac+mrzFcbcIqzklDSi+0P8UjYLCVqQ== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:49:30 +0000 Message-ID: <0683D6CB32AC424D8AF52C0F660E5DC53793E583@xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.82.248.125] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/8cCThcw0OqmdXV52nACtIYmm1pw Cc: "Paul Jones \(paulej\)" Subject: [Dart] Use Dispatch Jabber for DART X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:49:33 -0000 Please use the Dispatch Jabber for today DART WG meeting at IETF 90 xmpp:dispatch@jabber.ietf.org?join From nobody Wed Jul 23 13:16:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B0B21A0313 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:16:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3AXlvQ7C7AIi for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209d.appriver.com [8.31.233.119]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C2FB1B27F2 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:16:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 7/23/2014 4:16:45 PM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-196/SG:2 7/23/2014 4:16:16 PM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.934255 p=-0.968577 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-3134-c X-Note-419: 15.6007 ms. Fail:0 Chk:1335 of 1335 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:0-1335/SG:1 7/23/2014 4:16:40 PM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNITED STATES-> X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: mail1.vidyo.com X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G335 G336 G337 G338 G342 G343 G453 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 141768977 for dart@ietf.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:16:45 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:16:44 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "dart@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: AQHPprMFiUVrQpioSUe4c1RT1xtq+g== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:16:44 +0000 Message-ID: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.187.197] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <658218C87F55054B94114C64968A6EFB@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/aYlocfQBZcB8qPASYt3u9Q6052s Subject: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:16:54 -0000 This is the point I brought up at the mic today about ICE and TCP candidate= s. ICE, effectively (in the modes used for RTP and the like, i.e. as used in W= ebRTC-style contexts), presents an API as though it=92s sending datagrams. = However, because ICE includes TCP candidates (both ICE-TCP and TURN-TCP), = sometimes this =93datagram" traffic will end up actually going over TCP ins= tead, and depending on your implementation this will often be invisible to = the higher-level code. When this happens, it would be a bad thing if the low-level per-packet DSCP= markings you were trying to use on UDP were applied to the TCP connection.= Even beyond the usual problems with mixing DSCP markings on a TCP connect= ion, these framed TCP streams are usually created in userspace, so the pack= etization you expected from your API won=92t be the packetization of the TC= P on the wire. How (say) a WebRTC implementation should handle API requests for multiple d= rop precedences when the underlying ICE channel is TCP is unclear to me. Jonathan Lennox From nobody Wed Jul 23 13:44:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E876E1B2AE8 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:44:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2tztmdqq-sI for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1lp0145.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.145]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB70B1B2B03 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 13:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BN1PR06MB245.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.215.151) by BN1PR06MB375.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.141.61.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.995.14; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:44:48 +0000 Received: from BN1PR06MB246.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.215.148) by BN1PR06MB245.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.215.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.990.7; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:44:46 +0000 Received: from BN1PR06MB246.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.9.212]) by BN1PR06MB246.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.9.212]) with mapi id 15.00.0990.007; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:44:46 +0000 From: Dan York To: "dart@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Actions recorded out of IETF 90 DART meeting Thread-Index: AQHPprbw1QYcy4Z/dkidWPrvvqfzkw== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:44:45 +0000 Message-ID: <8844F05B-652B-4800-B6AC-4B4A53754918@isoc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.180.38] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 028166BF91 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(199002)(189002)(2351001)(101416001)(99396002)(105586002)(107046002)(31966008)(20776003)(229853001)(107886001)(110136001)(106116001)(81542001)(81342001)(92566001)(36756003)(16236675004)(19617315012)(15395725005)(19580405001)(92726001)(2656002)(87936001)(83322001)(106356001)(85852003)(83716003)(79102001)(4396001)(76482001)(80022001)(77982001)(66066001)(86362001)(64706001)(50986999)(74502001)(77096002)(46102001)(85306003)(15202345003)(15975445006)(21056001)(99286002)(95666004)(19580395003)(82746002)(83072002)(54356999)(33656002)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR06MB245; H:BN1PR06MB246.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8844F05B652B4800B6AC4B4A53754918isocorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: X-OriginatorOrg: isoc.org Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/Y0UpN6Bp5EPSBu7lqmTdtydvs5k Subject: [Dart] Actions recorded out of IETF 90 DART meeting X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:44:53 -0000 --_000_8844F05B652B4800B6AC4B4A53754918isocorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are the actions for David as editor that I captured out of the DART m= eeting today. Comments and corrections are welcome. Dan -------------- Actions: Slide: UDP Multiplexing Topics (1) 1. Delete reference to draft-westerlund-avtcore-transport-multicore 2. How many DTLS sessions per UDP 5-tuple? - One, per Justin Uberti and others 3. How many TCP or SCTP sessions per 5-tuple? - In practice 1 - need to reference the BUNDLE draft in MMUSIC - SCTP can carry multiple SCTP associations on a single UDP 5-tuple Slide: UDP Multiplexing Topics (2) 4. Add mention of RTCP multiplexing with RTP (yes, Colin Perkins) 5. Add mention of STUN and TURN channels 6. Add one-sentence description from Colin Perkins that he is going to send= via email Slide: Drop Precedence 7. Add text that resulting drop likelihood is some sort of mix (thanks to K= aren Nielsen) Slide: RFC 2119 Keywords 8. Choice 2- Remove MUST/SHOULD/MAY - or... dump caps and rephrase Slide: Which Transport Protocols 9. Add DCCP text from Gorry Fairhust, who volunteered at mic Slide: Use by other drafts 10. David to communicate with Michael Welzl with his draft 11. David and Cullen will communicate with Harald about his draft Slide: Anything Else? 12. ICE might put you over TCP when you think you are on UDP. Jonathan Lenn= ox to send text to list. 13. Need sentence about don't re-order SCTP (expanding on note from Karen) 14. Add a couple of sentences about linkage to congestion control and linka= ge to RMCAT 15. TCP connections get the same drop precedence 16. Reliable and ordered SCTP should be treated the same as TCP 17. For unreliable and unordered SCTP we don't have operational experience = to offer guidance on what will happen. Would likely have congestion contro= l impact. Would likely have implementation impact. 18. Add something about when you vary drop precedence within AF Class it is= expected not to impact latency. 19. Add something about when ECN is use you may still see drops -------------- -- Dan York Senior Content Strategist, Internet Society york@isoc.org +1-802-735-1624 Jabber: york@jabber.isoc.org Skype: danyork http://twitter.com/danyork http://www.internetsociety.org/deploy360/ --_000_8844F05B652B4800B6AC4B4A53754918isocorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <52D6F509447A1C42BBF1E8522736D460@namprd06.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These are the actions for David as editor that I captured out of the DART m= eeting today.  Comments and corrections are welcome.

Dan

-------------- 

Actions:

Slide:=  UDP Multiplexing Topics (1)

1. Delete reference to draft-westerlund= -avtcore-transport-multicore

2. How=  many DTLS sessions per UDP 5-tuple?
 =   - One, per Justin Uberti and others

3. How many TCP or SCTP sessions per 5-t= uple?
 =   - In practice 1  - need to reference the BUNDLE draft in MMUSI= C
 =   - SCTP can carry multiple SCTP associations on a single UDP 5-tuple=

Slide:=  UDP Multiplexing Topics (2)

4. Add= mention of RTCP multiplexing with RTP (yes, Colin Perkins)

5. Add= mention of STUN and TURN channels

6. Add= one-sentence description from Colin Perkins that he is going to send via e= mail

Slide:=  Drop Precedence

7. Add= text that resulting drop likelihood is some sort of mix (thanks to Karen N= ielsen)

Slide:=  RFC 2119 Keywords

8. Choice 2- Remove MUST/SHOULD/MAY &nb= sp;- or... dump caps and rephrase

Slide:  Which Transport Protocols =

9. Add DCCP text from Gorry Fairhust, who volunteered at mic

Slide:= Use by other drafts

10. Da= vid to communicate with Michael Welzl with his draft

11. Da= vid and Cullen will communicate with Harald about his draft

Slide: Anything Else?

12. ICE might put you over TCP when you= think you are on UDP. Jonathan Lennox to send text to list.

13. Need sentence about don't re-order = SCTP (expanding on note from Karen)

14. Add a couple of sentences about lin= kage to congestion control and linkage to RMCAT

15. TCP connections get the same drop p= recedence

16. Reliable and ordered SCTP should be= treated the same as TCP

17. For unreliable and unordered SCTP w= e don't have operational experience to offer guidance on what will happen. =  Would likely have congestion control impact. Would likely have implem= entation impact.

18. Add something about when you vary d= rop precedence within AF Class it is expected not to impact latency.

19. Add something about when ECN is use= you may still see drops

-------------- 
--
Dan York
Senior Content Strategist, Internet Socie= ty
york@iso= c.org   +1-802-735-1624
Skype: danyork   http://twitter.com/danyork


--_000_8844F05B652B4800B6AC4B4A53754918isocorg_-- From nobody Wed Jul 23 14:20:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA6B21B2BEA for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:27:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eULZdzGM8Xem for ; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:27:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA8521B2BDA for ; 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Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:27:36 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.120]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:27:36 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "dart@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: jabber room for meeting Thread-Index: AQHPpqwomXPmrG4N9E+9FJqS/xQZrA== Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:27:35 +0000 Message-ID: <245FA952-7AD9-4027-91DA-B6AA4F9D7261@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.240.222] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/djj7ATlzJSZUKtmCbr9SBcSRaRc X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:20:42 -0700 Subject: [Dart] jabber room for meeting X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:27:38 -0000 =09 dart room on XMPP is down so we are suing dispatch room=20 xmpp:dispatch@jabber.ietf.org From nobody Thu Jul 24 00:54:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0AC31A00D2 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:54:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qzBJ3HFbSHTB for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D44CA1A0108 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qdezc2.de.t-internal.com ([10.125.181.10]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2014 09:54:23 +0200 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,722,1400018400"; d="scan'208";a="109110656" Received: from he113470.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.93.128]) by qde0ps.de.t-internal.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 24 Jul 2014 09:54:23 +0200 Received: from HE111643.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.12]) by HE113470.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:54:23 +0200 From: To: Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:54:22 +0200 Thread-Topic: ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: AQHPprMFiUVrQpioSUe4c1RT1xtq+puu0UIw Message-ID: References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/eE__m5ffIAMpheQZbsm9kp_H6i0 Cc: dart@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 07:54:28 -0000 Jonathan, Let's briefly discuss your point below: Different drop precedences are requ= ired if congestion within a PHB group may occur. TCP is designed for reliab= le transport. In case of a loss, TCP will reduce bandwidth and retransmit t= he dropped information. I'm not an RTP expert. The few applications known t= o me don't seem to benefit from such a behavior, if a single application fl= ow uses different drop precedence levels in combination with TCP. It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop prec= edences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of congesti= on. But is there a need to avoid re-ordering across different drop preceden= ces, which is an AF PHB group feature? Again, I'm not an RTP expert - but t= hat doesn't sound like making a lot of sense too.=20 In general, I'd be interested to learn, if some applications were benefitti= ng from ECN (or a congestion indication by marking rather than by dropping)= . Independent from the question whether they use TCP or RTP transport.=20 Regards, Ruediger -----Message----- From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On behalf of Jonathan Lennox Subject: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP [snip] How (say) a WebRTC implementation should handle API requests for multiple d= rop precedences when the underlying ICE channel is TCP is unclear to me. Jonathan Lennox From nobody Thu Jul 24 06:00:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D82001A02ED for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:00:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJREI1nowidP for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209d.appriver.com [8.31.233.119]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00DD51A02EC for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:00:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 7/24/2014 9:00:51 AM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-132/SG:2 7/24/2014 9:00:01 AM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.948581 p=-0.971047 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-5344-c X-Note-419: 15.6006 ms. Fail:1 Chk:1335 of 1335 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:1-1335/SG:1 7/24/2014 9:00:45 AM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNITED STATES-> X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: mail2.vidyo.com X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G335 G336 G337 G338 G342 G343 G453 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 141922916; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:00:51 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:00:50 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" Thread-Topic: ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: AQHPprMFiUVrQpioSUe4c1RT1xtq+puu0UIwgACzvwA= Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:00:49 +0000 Message-ID: <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.191.192] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/5ErYNXNq-oSrlbr17JaFPU74nvc Cc: "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:00:56 -0000 I don=92t think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to TC= P. The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it=92s not nece= ssarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed going over= TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implementing th= e APIs can=92t (and shouldn=92t try to) satisfy. The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I spoke t= o Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I believe he had = a simple proposal. On Jul 24, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: > Jonathan, >=20 > Let's briefly discuss your point below: Different drop precedences are re= quired if congestion within a PHB group may occur. TCP is designed for reli= able transport. In case of a loss, TCP will reduce bandwidth and retransmit= the dropped information. I'm not an RTP expert. The few applications known= to me don't seem to benefit from such a behavior, if a single application = flow uses different drop precedence levels in combination with TCP. >=20 > It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop pr= ecedences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of conges= tion. But is there a need to avoid re-ordering across different drop preced= ences, which is an AF PHB group feature? Again, I'm not an RTP expert - but= that doesn't sound like making a lot of sense too.=20 >=20 > In general, I'd be interested to learn, if some applications were benefit= ting from ECN (or a congestion indication by marking rather than by droppin= g). Independent from the question whether they use TCP or RTP transport.=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Ruediger >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On behalf of Jonathan Lennox > Subject: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP >=20 > [snip] >=20 > How (say) a WebRTC implementation should handle API requests for multiple= drop precedences when the underlying ICE channel is TCP is unclear to me. >=20 > Jonathan Lennox >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Jul 24 06:25:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEE81A0301 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sI7bGYV4CdIn for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwdur.emc.com (mailuogwdur.emc.com [128.221.224.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7474F1A0307 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.158]) by mailuogwprd54.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6ODPk1o019051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:47 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd54.lss.emc.com s6ODPk1o019051 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1406208347; bh=kB0OqLHssbWH00MV8C+Pv8zBqpA=; h=From:To:CC:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=CStxrLXym2K9NDZIUleKXMhTbiKHbOkWsh72nkD3elgoXPEww/IvaoQFtBV6r3u8n QyID2eUc7rhFGEu2Z0CyeZobgpRatj2BA5LJUP/iodlk9rTzaCcxa1bu6yFfn4dRUW oiTH8vXxapPTYUkn9yxhvwEyahUep6YIt78aYF1o= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd54.lss.emc.com s6ODPk1o019051 Received: from mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.21]) by maildlpprd54.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:31 -0400 Received: from mxhub26.corp.emc.com (mxhub26.corp.emc.com [10.254.110.182]) by mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6ODPVjq006104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:31 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub26.corp.emc.com ([10.254.110.182]) with mapi; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:31 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Jonathan Lennox Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:25:30 -0400 Thread-Topic: ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: AQHPprMFiUVrQpioSUe4c1RT1xtq+puu0UIwgACzvwD//7JZgA== Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6A63@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd03.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/Ziputa0wzSSUUDPG0EfrKZgVvVg Cc: "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:25:51 -0000 > I don't think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to TC= P. Clarification: "in respect to TCP" -> "within a single TCP connection". IMHO, Ruediger's larger overall point is valid: > > It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop > precedences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of > congestion. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lennox > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:01 AM > To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de > Cc: dart@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP >=20 > I don't think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to TC= P. >=20 > The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it's not > necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed goin= g > over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implement= ing > the APIs can't (and shouldn't try to) satisfy. >=20 > The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I spoke= to > Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I believe he had = a > simple proposal. >=20 > On Jul 24, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: >=20 > > Jonathan, > > > > Let's briefly discuss your point below: Different drop precedences are > required if congestion within a PHB group may occur. TCP is designed for > reliable transport. In case of a loss, TCP will reduce bandwidth and > retransmit the dropped information. I'm not an RTP expert. The few > applications known to me don't seem to benefit from such a behavior, if a > single application flow uses different drop precedence levels in combinat= ion > with TCP. > > > > It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop > precedences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of > congestion. But is there a need to avoid re-ordering across different dro= p > precedences, which is an AF PHB group feature? Again, I'm not an RTP expe= rt - > but that doesn't sound like making a lot of sense too. > > > > In general, I'd be interested to learn, if some applications were > benefitting from ECN (or a congestion indication by marking rather than b= y > dropping). Independent from the question whether they use TCP or RTP > transport. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ruediger > > > > > > > > > > -----Message----- > > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On behalf of Jonathan Lennox > > Subject: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP > > > > [snip] > > > > How (say) a WebRTC implementation should handle API requests for multip= le > drop precedences when the underlying ICE channel is TCP is unclear to me. > > > > Jonathan Lennox > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Thu Jul 24 06:31:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5211A034B for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:31:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OB1BhrckcxtM for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server209.appriver.com (server209f.appriver.com [8.31.233.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A64C1A0345 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 06:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Note-AR-ScanTimeLocal: 7/24/2014 9:31:21 AM X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Policy: GLOBAL - vidyo.com X-Primary: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: This Email was scanned by AppRiver SecureTide X-Virus-Scan: V- X-Note-SnifferID: 0 X-Note: TCH-CT/SI:0-170/SG:2 7/24/2014 9:31:02 AM X-GBUdb-Analysis: 0, 162.209.16.213, Ugly c=0.949416 p=-0.971081 Source White X-Signature-Violations: 0-0-0-7453-c X-Note-419: 15.6006 ms. Fail:1 Chk:1335 of 1335 total X-Note: SCH-CT/SI:1-1335/SG:1 7/24/2014 9:31:06 AM X-Note: Spam Tests Failed: X-Country-Path: ->UNITED STATES-> X-Note-Sending-IP: 162.209.16.213 X-Note-Reverse-DNS: mail2.vidyo.com X-Note-Return-Path: jonathan@vidyo.com X-Note: User Rule Hits: X-Note: Global Rule Hits: G335 G336 G337 G338 G342 G343 G453 X-Note: Encrypt Rule Hits: X-Note: Mail Class: VALID X-Note: Headers Injected Received: from [162.209.16.213] (HELO mail.vidyo.com) by server209.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.2) with ESMTPS id 141934360; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:31:21 -0400 Received: from 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62]) by 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:31:20 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "Black, David" Thread-Topic: ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: AQHPprMFiUVrQpioSUe4c1RT1xtq+puu0UIwgACzvwD//7JZgIAAVi0A Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6A63@MX15A.corp.emc.com> In-Reply-To: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE71207783F6A63@MX15A.corp.emc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [31.133.191.192] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9405AA868B2E5E49BE6604E9135E7C64@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/9EhWVFyUxdfpUzgYwBueBnaYxCM Cc: "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:31:27 -0000 On Jul 24, 2014, at 9:25 AM, Black, David wrote: >> I don't think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to T= CP. >=20 > Clarification: "in respect to TCP" -> "within a single TCP connection". >=20 > IMHO, Ruediger's larger overall point is valid: >=20 >>> It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop >> precedences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of >> congestion. Yes, agreed. Sorry, my sloppy wording. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lennox >> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:01 AM >> To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de >> Cc: dart@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP >>=20 >> I don't think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to T= CP. >>=20 >> The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it's not >> necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed goi= ng >> over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implemen= ting >> the APIs can't (and shouldn't try to) satisfy. >>=20 >> The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I spok= e to >> Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I believe he had= a >> simple proposal. >>=20 >> On Jul 24, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de wrote: >>=20 >>> Jonathan, >>>=20 >>> Let's briefly discuss your point below: Different drop precedences are >> required if congestion within a PHB group may occur. TCP is designed for >> reliable transport. In case of a loss, TCP will reduce bandwidth and >> retransmit the dropped information. I'm not an RTP expert. The few >> applications known to me don't seem to benefit from such a behavior, if = a >> single application flow uses different drop precedence levels in combina= tion >> with TCP. >>>=20 >>> It may make sense to have different TCP flows marked by different drop >> precedences. The less important TCP flows get throttled in the case of >> congestion. But is there a need to avoid re-ordering across different dr= op >> precedences, which is an AF PHB group feature? Again, I'm not an RTP exp= ert - >> but that doesn't sound like making a lot of sense too. >>>=20 >>> In general, I'd be interested to learn, if some applications were >> benefitting from ECN (or a congestion indication by marking rather than = by >> dropping). Independent from the question whether they use TCP or RTP >> transport. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Ruediger >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Message----- >>> From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On behalf of Jonathan Lennox >>> Subject: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP >>>=20 >>> [snip] >>>=20 >>> How (say) a WebRTC implementation should handle API requests for multip= le >> drop precedences when the underlying ICE channel is TCP is unclear to me= . >>>=20 >>> Jonathan Lennox >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Dart mailing list >> Dart@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Thu Jul 24 08:18:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 996B81A0522 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:18:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EHZmPuX7g1MF for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dublin.packetizer.com (dublin.packetizer.com [75.101.130.125]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 509271A059F for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 08:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.20] (cpe-024-211-197-136.nc.res.rr.com [24.211.197.136]) (authenticated bits=0) by dublin.packetizer.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6OFFwoE004222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:15:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=packetizer.com; s=dublin; t=1406214958; bh=Zq0un58ivBWymEvSRUx1wrdj1LHML1wfbxuMRhDip7Q=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-Id:Reply-To:Mime-Version: Content-Type; b=AUrRnPJwGSXlaLPrj6fkH/g+uF0IQpIuK3k9fe3qL5bJXyO6BeZ30rzgD3m8Moxx6 OhEDPiPyd1r7qFKZEShZHIZhCcFjPM3UA0Nqh83IHMDywYA0+tlRG0zENhITiLwzVk qmhny/DLi+9TOZD7uBtqL/gqcwpFo2pJkXzAEdg0= From: "Paul E. Jones" To: "dart@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:16:01 +0000 Message-Id: User-Agent: eM_Client/6.0.20617.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MBF03ECC9F-5D76-4D2F-81BC-C0E950481483" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/LNcU9a4KLqrnWN6uMVT4zTaVEG8 Subject: [Dart] DSCP marking of RTCP traffic X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Paul E. Jones" List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:18:53 -0000 --------=_MBF03ECC9F-5D76-4D2F-81BC-C0E950481483 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, During the meeting, there was discussion of marking RTCP packets. Some=20 notes I received on this topic suggested that it was proposed that RTCP=20 should be marked the same as for RTP. The argument was that this is=20 used for RTT calculations. If that is what was said, I'd like to state=20 my disagreement. :-) The forward and reverse paths are not necessarily the same and there is=20 nothing one should assume about the reverse path to provide guidance=20 about the forward path (or vice versa). As perhaps a gross example, I=20 have the ability to download far faster on my home Internet connection=20 than I can upload. Other important traffic characteristics differ in=20 each direction. Further, an RTCP packet might provide information related to several=20 different RTP packets. I certainly would not want to see one RTCP=20 packet per RTP packet. Paul --------=_MBF03ECC9F-5D76-4D2F-81BC-C0E950481483 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Folks,
 
During the meeting, there was discussion of marking RTCP packets. = ; Some notes I received on this topic suggested that it was proposed that= RTCP should be marked the same as for RTP.  The argument was that = this is used for RTT calculations.  If that is what was said, I'd like= to state my disagreement. :-)
 
The forward and reverse paths are not necessarily the same and there= is nothing one should assume about the reverse path to provide= guidance about the forward path (or vice versa).  As perhaps a gross= example, I have the ability to download far faster on my home Internet = connection than I can upload.  Other important traffic characteristics= differ in each direction.
 
Further, an RTCP packet might provide information related to several&n= bsp;different RTP packets.  I certainly would not want to see&nbs= p;one RTCP packet per RTP packet.
 
Paul
 
--------=_MBF03ECC9F-5D76-4D2F-81BC-C0E950481483-- From nobody Thu Jul 24 12:44:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03171B287D for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:44:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPkbILGvpDAu for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F75A1B27F0 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-bbc7.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.187.199]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6OJimLe009436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:44:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ben Campbell In-Reply-To: <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:44:43 -0400 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 427923883.560901-299b818bbf9bc9607312e7fe082db681 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8538E3A9-6AFC-4A53-89EB-76DEB4C559C8@nostrum.com> References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> To: Jonathan Lennox X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/XWkoKu7xmUpNCWWWdFd8T277x5o Cc: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" , "dart@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 19:44:54 -0000 (as individual) On Jul 24, 2014, at 9:00 AM, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > I don=92t think different drop precedences would be useful in respect = to TCP. >=20 > The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it=92s not = necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed = going over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser = implementing the APIs can=92t (and shouldn=92t try to) satisfy. >=20 > The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I = spoke to Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I = believe he had a simple proposal. >=20 What would we expect DART to say about this? It seems to me that we = should point out that we think different drop precedences for a single = TCP connections doesn't make sense. But it is RTCWEB's issue to think = things through if they have a use case that might make this happen, = isn't it? From nobody Thu Jul 24 14:18:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACFC71A0880 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zoPFtzWwWlsf for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe14:43:76:96:62:80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B331A0146 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 14:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id WM7j1o0020mv7h058MJqMU; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:18:50 +0000 Received: from dhcp-a57b.meeting.ietf.org ([31.133.165.123]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id WMGg1o00S2g3ukn3XMGkJU; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:16:48 +0000 Message-ID: <53D177B8.7030500@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 17:16:40 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dart@ietf.org References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> <8538E3A9-6AFC-4A53-89EB-76DEB4C559C8@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <8538E3A9-6AFC-4A53-89EB-76DEB4C559C8@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1406236730; bh=LqMJp+oADSRxqbU5A7looWURcFonj78lTReFJ5K1Cbg=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=DBLoMhKJyM0+yESr52mczT6N3TEbPUsyhcrSG3waFlauDu0Z8WzdabcJj7NcxqSTx uY1FeurktmLgAhWtMUiBSKDXRQxiIg9Kk2tdHYf/qe/vkfkY/vZqAfTeR7MAkLDmRK 7qxeh/1Du2Xo60GdClx3rwys+1r6RKVGWDgL2mwn/VqT5NzMCQtMvhVs+hJ47IpKEU ZIhm6+ATHq7XpEiMRsqKJX5koDKQv2dVUvUkKtbRiXyZShdoPiKylcZLtTShrKTYXL 3cp37i6OZdfZRRNZXyqVdNGG4D57qFNmzf096JY2X/mQzNdpazGC9pR0EOJamxkqNC KyoBCUkuU7pjg== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/4kI3QxUGIQAS44tRGnf-bx-aIEY Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:18:51 -0000 On 7/24/14 3:44 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > (as individual) > > On Jul 24, 2014, at 9:00 AM, Jonathan Lennox wrote: > >> I don’t think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to TCP. >> >> The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it’s not necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed going over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implementing the APIs can’t (and shouldn’t try to) satisfy. >> >> The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I spoke to Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I believe he had a simple proposal. >> > > What would we expect DART to say about this? It seems to me that we should point out that we think different drop precedences for a single TCP connections doesn't make sense. But it is RTCWEB's issue to think things through if they have a use case that might make this happen, isn't it? Maybe not for dart, but for turn: tunnel the drop precedence through turn so it can be applied on the other end??? Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu Jul 24 15:38:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FEB51B280A for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:37:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JVqHzyyx0jxq for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D91F01B2809 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd02.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd02.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.34]) by mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6OMbsOV011398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:55 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com s6OMbsOV011398 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1406241475; bh=b0w0UGVDNNRAMHa/7Gi6odJeKJI=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=oRaGgnJ4Euhi53FpX5jVrpfoWuIjlZHT2m6A2WitXTDO8bmmlUo/Eb7AgkGkUzTL1 Mi2+KPmzX4CEEkf+RRX7+Ju2/zM4uVbN7H9eXN/exLMNRdLmJl+E9GnUTDh4NCu4vN 117vPLhL/IsVyMZ1LcMz0CNUaSYdDewX9s7tbRRo= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com s6OMbsOV011398 Received: from mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.18]) by maildlpprd02.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:41 -0400 Received: from mxhub28.corp.emc.com (mxhub28.corp.emc.com [10.254.110.184]) by mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6OMbeLD015432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:41 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub28.corp.emc.com ([10.254.110.184]) with mapi; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:40 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: Paul Kyzivat , "dart@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:37:39 -0400 Thread-Topic: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP Thread-Index: Ac+nhORxoyzIDTJMQCKkyL0fM+HozQACDCgw Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077860DC48@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <73287998-61BE-4481-B16D-D11F0EA69870@vidyo.com> <008FDAFA-6358-4016-9785-8A2C72CE312E@vidyo.com> <8538E3A9-6AFC-4A53-89EB-76DEB4C559C8@nostrum.com> <53D177B8.7030500@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <53D177B8.7030500@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd53.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/kGtUh_0UYLM35HCMEsWZAWIulvw Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 22:37:59 -0000 > >> The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it's not > >> necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed g= oing > >> over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implem= enting > >> the APIs can't (and shouldn't try to) satisfy. I agree ... fortunately, the browser implementation of the APIs has to tran= slate from the application priority to DSCP . As ICE is also running in that bro= wser, that API implementation should know whether ICE did send all the traffic ov= er TCP in which case, it has to pick once DSCP and use it for all traffic :-(. > > What would we expect DART to say about this? It seems to me that we sho= uld > > point out that we think different drop precedences for a single TCP > > connections doesn't make sense. But it is RTCWEB's issue to think thing= s > > through if they have a use case that might make this happen, isn't it? The normative text for that single DSCP usage will wind up in the rtcweb-transports draft (just confirmed in the rtcweb meeting this afternoo= n), but it seems useful to repeat this in the DART draft and extend it to inclu= de TURN use of TCP, both client to TURN server and TURN server to peer. > Maybe not for dart, but for turn: tunnel the drop precedence through > turn so it can be applied on the other end??? Unless specified/deployed TURN can already do that, it's out of scope for D= ART, IMHO. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: Dart [mailto:dart-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:17 PM > To: dart@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dart] ICE might send your traffic over TCP >=20 > On 7/24/14 3:44 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > > (as individual) > > > > On Jul 24, 2014, at 9:00 AM, Jonathan Lennox wrote= : > > > >> I don't think different drop precedences would be useful in respect to= TCP. > >> > >> The problem is that the way the WebRTC APIs are structured, it's not > necessarily clear to an application that its media traffic is indeed goin= g > over TCP, so it might make precedence requests that the browser implement= ing > the APIs can't (and shouldn't try to) satisfy. > >> > >> The question is how the browser should behave when that happens. I sp= oke > to Cullen about this, offline, after the DART session, and I believe he h= ad a > simple proposal. > >> > > > > What would we expect DART to say about this? It seems to me that we sho= uld > point out that we think different drop precedences for a single TCP > connections doesn't make sense. But it is RTCWEB's issue to think things > through if they have a use case that might make this happen, isn't it? >=20 > Maybe not for dart, but for turn: tunnel the drop precedence through > turn so it can be applied on the other end??? >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Dart mailing list > Dart@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dart From nobody Wed Jul 30 15:39:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A40731A05C0 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:39:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qPQ4HU83U4c2 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 291951A0264 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s6UMdoQx068829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:39:52 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-173-172-146-58.tx.res.rr.com [173.172.146.58] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 428452788.392893-e8ca9cbda6a06837d935b254993349f7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Message-Id: <340D50F5-BBB3-4553-A0AF-C335B5F9FFC4@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:39:48 -0500 To: dart@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/siuXKdIk-Civ0aCthfXCuwZ4QHA Subject: [Dart] Draft DART Minutes X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:39:54 -0000 Hi, I've uploaded draft minutes from Toronto. They are available at = http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/90/minutes/minutes-90-dart . Please send any additions or corrections as soon as possible. Thanks! Ben.= From nobody Thu Jul 31 13:41:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70961A000B; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:07:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YJB-BAWc6EIk; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7191A001E; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:07:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140731190738.16865.76561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:07:38 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/WbDr1mBcp03EQqTzGREFPSWPMVQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:41:16 -0700 Cc: dart@ietf.org Subject: [Dart] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 19:07:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the DiffServ Applied to Real-time Transports Working Group of the IETF. Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and Real-time Communication Authors : David Black Paul Jones Filename : draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2014-07-31 Abstract: This document describes the interaction between Differentiated Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality and real-time network communication, including communication based on the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on network nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As a result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the traffic source and destination. This document covers the implications of these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, including RTCWEB. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 31 13:50:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: dart@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8D41A0142 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmgws-hOum3j for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailuogwhop.emc.com (mailuogwhop.emc.com [168.159.213.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89C6F1A0108 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com [10.253.24.38]) by mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6VKoOI8011711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:50:25 -0400 X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com s6VKoOI8011711 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=emc.com; s=jan2013; t=1406839825; bh=GXTS4hGb2eMvIoRVpgg9cZPc/WE=; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=byGE2v8BGbimbO1uAVMHv6U1oNQvxdeN3u5j3puDsQuxeALKOvUan6vKAQD7RUle4 J2GV+v2OUlbAjjyTzhd85eKpHUcpmYGVlrfkI008NtRiM5brigCATroYAWYJdotG+r i42Gf46ceWW73W9gyighBFGoSr8rlJfrdIYobetc= X-DKIM: OpenDKIM Filter v2.4.3 mailuogwprd01.lss.emc.com s6VKoOI8011711 Received: from mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com [10.106.48.24]) by maildlpprd06.lss.emc.com (RSA Interceptor) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:50:12 -0700 Received: from mxhub23.corp.emc.com (mxhub23.corp.emc.com [128.222.70.135]) by mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.0) with ESMTP id s6VKoB3R012120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:50:12 -0400 Received: from mx15a.corp.emc.com ([169.254.1.186]) by mxhub23.corp.emc.com ([128.222.70.135]) with mapi; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:50:11 -0400 From: "Black, David" To: "dart@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:50:10 -0400 Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt Thread-Index: Ac+s8rw6gjPoqFMASdCaDXhcOfRkowAB3kCA Message-ID: <8D3D17ACE214DC429325B2B98F3AE712077860E55C@MX15A.corp.emc.com> References: <20140731190738.16865.76561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140731190738.16865.76561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sentrion-Hostname: mailusrhubprd51.lss.emc.com X-RSA-Classifications: DLM_1, public Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dart/0XpRvvIEFB7nMsGogBiAEfcyjd8 Subject: Re: [Dart] I-D Action: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt X-BeenThere: dart@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"DiffServ Applied to RTP Transports discussion list\"" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 20:50:32 -0000 As promised, here's the -00 dart WG draft. I think I incorporated almost everything that was discussed in the meeting, but I've surely missed a few things - please comment (on list, or send me editorial changes directly= ). I want to call attention to this Editor's Note on draft organization: [Editor's Note: Current section structure skips around topics somewhat. The editor suggests restructuring to put real-time/RTP material first (new section 2, consisting of current sections 2, 2.1 and 3), then DiffServ Background (new section 3, consisting of current sections 2.2, 2.3, 2.6 and 2.7, followed by discussion of interactions (new section 4, consisting of current sections 2.4, 2.5 and 5) and guidelines (current section 4, renumbered to new section 5).] If this change is made, I will submit a version that only contains the text rearrangement before making any other changes. The "game plan" that I've discussed w/Ben (WG chair) is to revise the draft over about the next week with the resulting version going to WG Last Call, so reading this draft sooner rather than later might be a good idea. Thanks, --David > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:08 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: dart@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the DiffServ Applied to Real-time Transport= s > Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Differentiated Services (DiffServ) and Real-tim= e > Communication > Authors : David Black > Paul Jones > Filename : draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00.txt > Pages : 23 > Date : 2014-07-31 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the interaction between Differentiated > Services (DiffServ) network quality of service (QoS) functionality > and real-time network communication, including communication based on > the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP). DiffServ is based on network > nodes applying different forwarding treatments to packets whose IP > headers are marked with different DiffServ Code Points (DSCPs). As a > result, use of different DSCPs within a single traffic stream may > cause transport protocol interactions (e.g., reordering). In > addition, DSCP markings may be changed or removed between the traffic > source and destination. This document covers the implications of > these DiffServ aspects for real-time network communication, including > RTCWEB. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dart-dscp-rtp-00 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt