Subject: [decade] Notification for draft-song-decade-problem-statement-00

From: Song Haibin <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:07:41 +0800

Hi all,

We just submit the DECADE problem statement draft. Any comments are
appreciated!

Abstract:
Peer-to-peer (P2P) applications have become widely used on the Internet
today and make up a large portion of the traffic in many networks.  In P2P
applications, one technique for reducing the total amount of P2P traffic is
to introduce storage capabilities within the network.  Traditional caches
(e.g., P2P and Web caches) provide such storage, but they are complex (due
to explicitly supporting individual P2P application protocols) and they do
not allow users to manage access to content in the cache.  For example,
Content Providers cannot easily control access and resource usage policies
to satisfy their own requirements.  This document discusses the introduction
of in-network storage for P2P applications, shows the need for a standard
protocol for accessing this storage, and identifies the scope of this
protocol.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-song-decade-problem-statement-00.t
xt

Best Regards,
Haibin

---

From: "Y.J. Gu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:50:42 +0800

Hi all,
We have updated the requirement draft (draft-gu-decade-reqs) to -01version.
The URL for this internet-draft is 
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-gu-decade-reqs-01.txt
We made editorial revision and also made changes to some functional
requirements.

We appreciate your comments on the draft.

Regards

Yingjie Gu

---

From: "Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:55:32 +0800

Hi Haibin,

Well done. It's a good base for further discussion of DECADE. There are
some comments from my side. 

1. In section 3.1, you compared the DECADE to ALTO. IMHO, The need of
DECADE besides ALTO is that the tree like underlayer network topology is
widely implemented for access network. ALTO does solve the unnecessary
backbone transit and localize the traffic with topology information. If
the access network has mesh connection, it seems that ALTO can solve the
traffic optimization alone. The problem here is that most access
networks have tree like topology, so that even local traffics between
selected peers by ALTO must go through some center point which give
chance for DECADE to do further optimization. So, the key here is the
unmatched overlay topology with the tree like underlayer topology.

2. In section 3.2, you regards cache as complex storage. However, if the
cache is only for one P2P application, where it is looked as a peer for
the application, I don't think the whole protocol could be more complex.
The key here, I think, is that if we use a single cache server for
multiple applications, the complexity is increased. That's why we need a
application independent storage.

3. In section 3.3, I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean the
storage will also take part in the peer selection as a peer with good
performance? IMHO, the storage and DECADE protocol should be totally
invisible from the P2P application. But if you mean the deployment
position of the storage (considering the underlayer topology and
bandwidth structure) can help traffic optimization, I think,  section
3.1 should have already mentioned it.

The last question is that do we really need include solutions and
detailed usage scenarios in a problem statement draft.

Br
Xiao, Lin

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf
Of ext Song Haibin
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:08 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [decade] Notification for
draft-song-decade-problem-statement-00

Hi all,

Abstrac
Peer-to-peer (P2P) applications have become widely used on the Internet
today and make up a large portion of the traffic in many networks.  In
P2P applications, one technique for reducing the total amount of P2P
traffic is to introduce storage capabilities within the network.
Traditional caches (e.g., P2P and Web caches) provide such storage, but
they are complex (due to explicitly supporting individual P2P
application protocols) and they do not allow users to manage access to
content in the cache.  For example, Content Providers cannot easily
control access and resource usage policies to satisfy their own
requirements.  This document discusses the introduction of in-network
storage for P2P applications, shows the need for a standard protocol for
accessing this storage, and identifies the scope of this protocol.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-song-decade-problem-statement-
00.t
xt

Best Regards,
Haibin

_______________________________________________
decade mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/decade

---

From: Song Haibin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:59:21 +0800

Hi Lin,

Thanks for your comments. See in line.

>From: Xiao, Lin (NSN - CN/Beijing) [mailto:[email-masked]] 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:56 PM
>To: ext Song Haibin; [email-masked]
>Subject: RE: [decade] Notification for 
>Well done. It's a good base for further discussion of DECADE. 
>There are some comments from my side. 
>
>1. In section 3.1, you compared the DECADE to ALTO. IMHO, The 
>need of DECADE besides ALTO is that the tree like underlayer 
>network topology is widely implemented for access network. 
>ALTO does solve the unnecessary backbone transit and localize 
>the traffic with topology information. If the access network 
>has mesh connection, it seems that ALTO can solve the traffic 
>optimization alone. The problem here is that most access 
>networks have tree like topology, so that even local traffics 
>between selected peers by ALTO must go through some center 
>point which give chance for DECADE to do further optimization. 
>So, the key here is the unmatched overlay topology with the 
>tree like underlayer topology.
>

With implementing in-network storage for p2p applications, most of the data
traffic will transport from the in-network storage to customer endpoint,
instead of from endpoint to endpoint. The use of uplink bandwidth will be
greatly reduced, and p2p application performance can be improved. While ALTO
can be used to localize the p2p traffic, DECADE and ALTO can be
complementary to each other. 

>2. In section 3.2, you regards cache as complex storage. 
>However, if the cache is only for one P2P application, where 
>it is looked as a peer for the application, I don't think the 
>whole protocol could be more complex.
>The key here, I think, is that if we use a single cache server 
>for multiple applications, the complexity is increased. That's 
>why we need a application independent storage.
>

You are right. To support many evolving p2p application protocols makes the
cache server rather complicated. To support only one P2P application is much
simpler, but the cache server still needs to keep updating with the p2p
application protocol change. If the P2P application protocol is proprietary,
things will get complicated (e.g. if you use DPI to detect the traffic and
redirect the message to p2p cache).

>3. In section 3.3, I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you 
>mean the storage will also take part in the peer selection as 
>a peer with good performance? 

In-network storage could be seen as a better peer when you do peer
selection, but that is out of scope in the draft charter I sent out weeks
ago. The In-network storage Access Protocol ( IAP) will be the key output of
DECADE. In section 3.3, we stated that the in-network storage should have
the capability to be effectively integrated with P2P applications while keep
the flexibility of P2P applications to implement their specific policies.

IMHO, the storage and DECADE 
>protocol should be totally invisible from the P2P application. 
>But if you mean the deployment position of the storage 
>(considering the underlayer topology and bandwidth structure) 
>can help traffic optimization, I think,  section

I don't think it can be totally invisible because a P2P application client
should have the capability to control how its resources in the in-network
storage can be accessed by others.

>The last question is that do we really need include solutions 
>and detailed usage scenarios in a problem statement draft.
>

The usage scenarios are just used to give you a picture on how P2P
applications and content publishers can use DECADE.

Thanks,
Haibin

>From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] 
>On Behalf Of ext Song Haibin
>We just submit the DECADE problem statement draft. Any 
>comments are appreciated!
>
>Abstrac
>Peer-to-peer (P2P) applications have become widely used on the 
>Internet today and make up a large portion of the traffic in 
>many networks.  In P2P applications, one technique for 
>reducing the total amount of P2P traffic is to introduce 
>storage capabilities within the network.
>Traditional caches (e.g., P2P and Web caches) provide such 
>storage, but they are complex (due to explicitly supporting 
>individual P2P application protocols) and they do not allow 
>users to manage access to content in the cache.  For example, 
>Content Providers cannot easily control access and resource 
>usage policies to satisfy their own requirements.  This 
>document discusses the introduction of in-network storage for 
>P2P applications, shows the need for a standard protocol for