From nobody Fri May 1 15:38:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86A41B2EB2 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 15:38:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PKB7DWLgprXc for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 15:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 000C11B2E59 for ; Fri, 1 May 2015 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15064; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1430519883; x=1431729483; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=SgtY5QkOttKkREAKRvUDCB7dXpfPP6XA2sbq3sfY60Q=; b=TbVc3TAlNs61pnY6g7Mfo4rCt4UMngmUxkHasYYn/5fRJUkZFBRmHc3X QYWDYO4ULbuTMmFb6KREI0QuUbp8MlkCnnkxkoB46sVy42pb92ugui5nt ncx2vOLl1RwTaar6W6IGAa9k5tdLGJ+2Hh0mPmXjjwtX0MZ9l3L4Miibt w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0ASBQDx/0NV/5JdJa1SCoMMU1wFgxjEBwyFNE4CHIE3TAEBAQEBAYELhCABAQEDAQEBASAROgsMBAIBCA4DAQIBAgECAiYCAgIfBgsVAgYIAgQBDQUbh3wDCQgNs12NcA2FHAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReBIYkVgQKCTYFPDCoIEBsHAgICgmKBRQWGSoslhAqEa4FVgSM9gw6KNIMLg1AjgWWCD2+BBCQcgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,353,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="416779981" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 May 2015 22:38:01 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t41Mc1vS028488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 1 May 2015 22:38:01 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.22]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([173.37.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 1 May 2015 17:38:00 -0500 From: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" To: Lou Berger , "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "Deborah Brungard (dbrungard@att.com) (dbrungard@att.com)" , Erik Nordmark Thread-Topic: [Detnet] The road to DetNet Thread-Index: AQHQfU0MhlJYyOyiq0Kt3w4QOGdAJp1hLwewgASifwCAAdFOgA== Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 22:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55421786.5020500@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <55421786.5020500@labn.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [10.24.160.66] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5C3FADC7EBBF5C4AB9A6D25635912D2F@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Tom Phinney , "Alia Atlas \(akatlas@gmail.com\)" Subject: Re: [Detnet] The road to DetNet X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 22:38:06 -0000 TG91LA0KDQpTZWUgaW4tbGluZSBmb3IgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgcmVzcG9uc2VzLg0KDQotLS0tLU9y aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTG91IEJlcmdlciA8bGJlcmdlckBsYWJuLm5ldD4N CkRhdGU6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAzMCwgMjAxNSBhdCAwNDo1MiBBTQ0KVG86IFBhc2NhbCBU aHViZXJ0IDxwdGh1YmVydEBjaXNjby5jb20+LCBOb3JtYW4gRmlubiA8bmZpbm5AY2lzY28uY29t PiwNCiJkZXRuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxkZXRuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmc+LCAiRGVib3JhaCBCcnVuZ2Fy ZCAoZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0dC5jb20pDQooZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0dC5jb20pIiA8ZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0 dC5jb20+LCBFcmlrIE5vcmRtYXJrIDxub3JkbWFya0BhY20ub3JnPg0KQ2M6IFRvbSBQaGlubmV5 IDx0b20ucGhpbm5leUBjb3gubmV0PiwgIkFsaWEgQXRsYXMgKGFrYXRsYXNAZ21haWwuY29tKSIN Cjxha2F0bGFzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbRGV0bmV0XSBUaGUgcm9hZCB0byBE ZXROZXQNCg0KPkhpLA0KPiAgICBTZWUgYmVsb3cgZm9yIHNvbWUgY29tbWVudHMuDQo+DQo+T24g NC8yNy8yMDE1IDM6MjggUE0sIFBhc2NhbCBUaHViZXJ0IChwdGh1YmVydCkgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBI aSBOb3JtOg0KPj4NCj4+PiBEZXROZXQgaXM6DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiAgMS4gVGltZSBzeW5jaHJvbml6 YXRpb24uDQo+Pj4gIDIuIFplcm8gY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBsb3NzLg0KPj4+ICAzLiBTZWFtbGVzcyBy ZWR1bmRhbmN5LiAgKEZpZ3VyZSAxIGluIHRoZSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUpDQo+Pj4gIDQuIFBlZXIt dG8tcGVlciBwcm90b2NvbHMgdG8gc2V0IHVwIGFueSBvZiB0aGUgYWJvdmUuDQo+Pj4gIDUuIENl bnRyYWwgY29udHJvbCBwYXJhZGlnbXMgdG8gc2V0IHVwIGFueSBvZiB0aGUgYWJvdmUuDQo+Pj4g IDYuIFJvYnVzdCBkZWZlbnNlcyBhZ2FpbnN0IG1pc2JlaGF2aW5nIGVuZCBhbmQgcmVsYXkgc3lz dGVtcy4NCj4NCj4NCj5Jc24ndCB0aGlzIGxpc3QgbWlzc2luZyB0aGUga2V5IHBvaW50IG9mIG9w ZXJhdGlvbiA4MDIuMSBicmlkZ2VkDQo+bmV0d29ya3MgaW50ZXJjb25uZWN0ZWQgb3ZlciBMMz8g IChXaXRob3V0IGl0LCBpdCdzIGp1c3QgODAyLjFUU04sIHJpZ2h0PykNCg0KV2UgY291bGQgY2Vy dGFpbmx5IGFkZDoNCg0KNy4gT3BlcmF0aW9uIG92ZXIgYnJpZGdlZCwgcm91dGVkLCBtaXhlZCwg b3Igbm9uLUV0aGVybmV0IG5ldHdvcmtzLg0KDQpJIG9ubHkgcGhyYXNlIGl0IHRoaXMgd2F5IHRv IGF2b2lkIGFueSBpbXBsaWNhdGlvbiAobm90IGludGVuZGVkIGJ5IHlvdSwNCmFzIGlzIGNsZWFy IGZyb20geW91ciBsYXRlciBjb21tZW50cykgdGhhdCB0aGUgZW5kIHN0YXRpb25zIGhhdmUgdG8g YmUNCmNvbm5lY3RlZCB0byBMMiBuZXR3b3Jrcy4gIEwyIHR1bm5lbGluZyB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMg YmV0d2VlbiBicmlkZ2VkDQpuZXR3b3JrcyBhcmUgbm90IHByZWNsdWRlZCwgYnkgYW55IG1lYW5z LCBidXQgd2UgZG9u4oCZdCB3YW50IHRoZW0gdG8gYmUNCm5lY2Vzc2FyeSwgYW5kIGFsbC1MMyBu ZXR3b3JrcyBhcmUgZGVmaW5pdGVseSBhIHVzZSBjYXNlIGZvciBEZXROZXQuDQoNCj4+Pg0KPj4+ IFRoYXQgc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgYSBsb3Qgb2Ygc3R1ZmYsIGJ1dCB3aGVuIHdlIGRpdmlkZSBpdCB1 cCBpbnRvDQo+Pj5zcGVjaWZpYyB3b3JrIGl0ZW1zDQo+Pj4gYSBsb3Qgb2YgdGhpbmdzIGFyZSBh bHJlYWR5IGRvbmUgb3Igc2hvdWxkIGJlIGRvbmUgZWxzZXdoZXJlIHRoYW4gaW4gYQ0KPj4+RGV0 TmV0DQo+Pj4gV0c6DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiAgQS4gVGltZSBzeW5jaHJvbml6YXRpb24gaXMgc29sdmVk IGVsc2V3aGVyZS4gIERldE5ldCBuZWVkIG5vdCBpbnZlbnQNCj4+PmFueXRoaW5nLA0KPj4+IGhl cmUuDQo+MTAwJSBhZ3JlZSwgYnV0IERldE5ldCBuZWVkcyB0byBlbnN1cmUgcHJvcGVyIG9wZXJh dGlvbiBvdmVyIEwzIChkZXZpY2VzKQ0KPg0KPj4+ICBCLiBJRUVFIDgwMiBoYXZlIGRlZmluZWQg bW9yZSB0aGFuIGVub3VnaCBxdWV1aW5nIGFuZCBzY2hlZHVsaW5nDQo+Pj4gbWVjaGFuaXNtcyB0 byBzb2x2ZSB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBvZiB6ZXJvIGNvbmdlc3Rpb24gbG9zcyBmb3IgY29uc3RhbnQN Cj4+PmJpdC1yYXRlDQo+Pj4gZmxvd3MgYXQgdGhlIGxvd2VzdCBsZXZlbHMgb2YgdGhlIHN0YWNr LiAgRGV0TmV0IG5lZWQgbm90IGludmVudA0KPj4+YW55dGhpbmcsIGhlcmUuDQo+VGhhbmtmdWxs eSwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGFsc28gTDMvSUVURiBtZWNoYW5pc21zIHRoYXQgY2FuIGJlIGxldmVyYWdl ZCBoZXJlDQo+dG9vLiANCj4+IFJpZ2h0OiBhbmQvYnV0IEkgbG92ZSB0aGUgd2F5IFBhdCBUaGFs ZXIgcHJlc2VudGVkIGl0IGF0IGFuIGFkaG9jIHdpdGgNCj4+TG91Lg0KPkkgYmVsaWV2ZSB5b3Us IGJ1dCBkb24ndCByZWNhbGwgdGhpcyBzcGVjaWZpYyBwb2ludDstKQ0KPg0KPj4gVGhpcyBxdWV1 ZXMgYW5kIHRpbWVycyBhbmQgYnVmZmVycyBzeXN0ZW0gaXMgcmVhbGx5IGNvbXBsZXRlbHkgYWJz dHJhY3QNCj4+ZnJvbSBNQUMvUEhZIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgYW5kIGNvdWxkIGJlIHNlZW4gYXMgYW4g dXBwZXIgTUFDIGZ1bmN0aW9uIGlmDQo+PnBhc3NpbmcgYSBmcmFtZSB0byB0aGUgTUFDIGFsbG93 ZWQgaW5zdGFudGFuZW91cyBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24gdG8gdGhlDQo+PndpcmUuDQo+PiBJIHRoaW5r IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGdvb2QgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGFic3RyYWN0aW9uIGlzIHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBh IHdheQ0KPj50aGF0IGlzIHNlcGFyYXRlZCBmcm9tIEV0aGVybmV0IHNvIHdlIGNhbiByZXVzZSB0 aGF0IGFic3RyYWN0aW9uDQo+PmV2ZXJ5d2hlcmUuIElzIGl0IGFscmVhZHkgbGlrZSB0aGF0IG9y IHdvdWxkIHdlIG5lZWQgYSBzaG9ydCBkb2N1bWVudA0KPj50aGF0IGRlZmluZXMgdGhlIGVudGl0 aWVzIGFuZCBwb2ludHMgdG8gdGhlIElFRUUgZG9jIGZvciBtb3JlIGRldGFpbHM/DQo+DQo+VGhp cyBpcyBnb29kIGFuZCBpbXBvcnRhbnQsIHBhcnRpY3VsYXJseSB3aGVuIG1hcHBpbmcgYmFjayBh bmQgZm9ydGggdG8NCj5JRVRGIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMuDQo+DQo+Pj4gIEMuIFRoZXJlIGlzIGRlZmlu aXRlbHkgRGV0TmV0IHdvcmsgcmVxdWlyZWQgdG8gZWl0aGVyIGludmVudCBvcg0KPj4+c2VsZWN0 IChzZWxlY3QgaXMNCj4+PiBiZXR0ZXIpIG9uZSBvciBtb3JlIHNwZWNpZmljIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUg bWV0aG9kcyByZWxhdGVkIHRvIFNlYW1sZXNzDQo+Pj4gUmVkdW5kYW5jeSAoc2VlIHRoZSBhcmNo aXRlY3R1cmUgZHJhZnQpLg0KPk1QTFMgcmVsYXRlZCBtZWNoYW5pc21zIChJJ20gdGhpbmtpbmcg VFAgbW9yZSB0aGFuIEZSUiwgYnV0IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMNCj5pcyBhIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gcG9pbnQp IG1heSBiZSBhIGdvb2Qgc3RhcnRpbmcgcG9pbnQgZm9yIHRoZSBMMyBwb3J0aW9uDQo+b2YgdGhp cy4NCg0KQWZ0ZXIgbWFueSB5ZWFycyBvZiBiZWluZyBhIG5vbi1mYW4gb2YgTVBMUywgSSBoYXZl IHRvIGFkbWl0IHRoYXQgaXRzDQphYmlsaXR5IHRvIGV4cG9ydCB0aGUgZmxvdyBJRCB0byB0aGUg b3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgcGFja2V0IGlzIHZlcnksIHZlcnkNCnVzZWZ1bCBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4 dCBvZiBEZXROZXQ7IGl0IG1ha2VzIGl0IGVhc3kgdG8gZG8gcGVyLWZsb3cgY29udHJhY3QNCnZh bGlkYXRpb24gYW5kLCB3aGVuIG5lZWRlZCwgdG8gYXNzaWduIHBlci1mbG93IHJlc291cmNlcy4N Cg0KPj4+ICBXZSBuZWVkIGEgbWV0aG9kIHRoYXQgd29ya3MgZW5kLXRvLQ0KPj4+IGVuZCB0aHJv dWdoIHJvdXRlcnMgYW5kIGJyaWRnZXMgdG86DQo+Pj4NCj4+PiAgIDEuIElkZW50aWZ5IGluZGl2 aWR1YWwgRGV0TmV0IGZsb3dzLg0KPj4gWWVzLiBUaGF0IHdpbGwgYmUgYW4gaW50ZXJzDQo+DQo+ RWNob2luZyBteSBlYXJsaWVyIHBvaW50LCA4MDIuMSBUU04gb3BlcmF0aW9uIGFjcm9zcyBhIGNv bGxlY3Rpb24gb2YNCj5icmlkZ2VzIGFuZCByb3V0ZXJzIGlzIHRoZSBmdW5kYW1lbnRhbCB1bmlx dWUgZWZmb3J0IG9mIERldE5ldC4NCj4NCj4+DQo+Pj4gICAyLiBPcGVyYXRlIG9uIGEgc2VxdWVu Y2UgbnVtYmVyIGluIGEgRGV0TmV0IHBhY2tldC4NCj4+IFllcw0KPj4NCj4+PiAgRC4gV2UgcmVx dWlyZSBzZXJ2aWNlLWxldmVsIFlBTkcgbW9kZWxzIGZvcjoNCj4+Pg0KPj4+ICAgMS4gUGlubmVk LWRvd24gcGF0aHMgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgbmV0d29yay4NCj4+IFllcywgd2hpY2ggcmVsYXRlZCB0 byBwaW5uZWQgZG93biByZXNvdXJjZXMgZGVmaW5lZCBpbiBCDQo+Pg0KPj4+ICAgMi4gUmVzb3Vy Y2UgcmVzZXJ2YXRpb25zIGFsb25nOg0KPj4+DQo+Pj4gICAgICBpKSBhIHBpbm5lZC1kb3duIHBh dGg7IG9yDQo+Pj4NCj4+IFRoZXJlIGFyZSByZWFsbHkgMiB2ZXJzaW9ucyBvZiB0aGF0Lg0KPj4N Cj4+IEluIHRoZSBURSBtb2RlbCB3aGVyZSBmbG93cyBhcmUgaW5zdGFsbGVkIGFzeW5jaHJvbm91 c2x5LA0KPlRFLCBmcm9tIHRoZSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmFsIHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlICBkb2Vzbid0IHBy ZWRpY2F0ZSBhIHNwZWNpZmljDQo+Y29udHJvbCBiZWhhdmlvciwgc28gSSdkIG9taXQgdGhlIHdv cmQgImFzeW5jaHJvbm91c2x5IiB0byBiZSBhY2N1cmF0ZS4NCj4NCj4+ICB0aGUgY2xhc3NpY2Fs IG1vZGVsIGlzIHRvIHNlbmQgYSBjb250cm9sIG1lc3NhZ2UgYXQgaW5ncmVzcyB3aXRoIHRoZQ0K Pj5wYXRoIGluIGl0LiBUaGUgbWVzc2FnZSBwcm9ncmVzc2VzIGFsb25nIHRoZSBpbmRpY2F0ZWQg cGF0aCB0aWxsIGl0IGlzDQo+PmFsbCBzZXQuIEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGF0IHRoaXMgaXMgd2hh dCBDQ0FNUCBpcyB1c2VkIHRvLg0KPlRoaXMgaXMgb25lIG1vZGVsIGFuZCBvbmUgc2hhcmVkIGJ5 IGJvdGggTVBMUy1URSBhbmQgR01QTFMgKGJ5IHVzaW5nDQo+UlNWUC1URSBmb3Igc2lnbmFsaW5n IGFuZCBJUy1JUy9PU1BGIGZvciByZXNvdXJjZQ0KPmRpc2NvdmVyeS9hZHZlcnRpc2VtZW50KS4N Cj4NCj5TdGF0aWMgYWxsb2NhdGlvbiB2aWEgbWFuYWdlbWVudCBwbGFuZSAoZS5nLiwgaW4gVFAg bmV0d29ya3MpIGFuZA0KPmNvbnRyb2xsZXIgYmFzZWQgbW9kZWxzIChlLmcuLCB1c2luZyBQQ0VQ LCBZQU5HLCBldGMpIGFyZSBhbHNvIHZhbGlkIFRFDQo+YXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0 aW9uIGFwcHJvYWNoZXMuDQo+DQo+PiBUaGVuIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRoZSBjYXNlIG9mIGEgdmVyeSBz dGFibGUgbmV0d29yayBsaWtlIGFuIGFpcmJ1cy4NCj4+IE9uZSBtYXkgd2FudCB0aGUgc3lzdGVt IHRvIHB1c2ggdGhlIGZ1bGwgc2NoZWR1bGUgb2YgZWFjaCBub2RlDQo+PmluZGl2aWR1YWxseSBh cyBhIHBhY2thZ2UsIGFzIG9wcG9zZWQgdG8gc2V0IHVwIGZsb3cgYnkgZmxvdy4NCj4+IEZvciA2 VGlTQ0gsIHRoaXMgbW9kZWwgc2F2ZXMgYSBsb3Qgb2YgYmF0dGVyeS4NCj5NYW5hZ2VtZW50IGJh c2VkIGNvbnRyb2wgb2YgVEUgaXMgZGVmaW5pdGVseSB1c2VmdWwgaW4gYSBudW1iZXIgb2YgdXNl DQo+Y2FzZXMuDQo+IA0KPj4NCj4+PiAgICAgaWkpIGEgbm9ybWFsLCBkeW5hbWljIHBhdGggdGhy b3VnaCB0aGUgbmV0d29yayB0b3BvbG9neTsNCj4+Pg0KPg0KPkFyZSB0aGVyZSBhbnkgT0FNIGNv bnNpZGVyYXRpb25zPyAgVGhpcyBoYXMgYmVlbiAgaG90IHRvcGljIGluIGEgc2ltaWxhcg0KPnJl Y2VudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucy4NCg0KVGhhdOKAmXMgYSBnb29kIHF1ZXN0aW9uIOKAlCBub3QgYmVj YXVzZSBJ4oCZbSBiZWluZyBwb2xpdGUsIGJ1dCBiZWNhdXNlIHdlDQpoYXZlbuKAmXQgZ2l2ZW4g aXQgbXVjaCB0aG91Z2h0Lg0KDQpNeSBmaXJzdCByZWFjdGlvbiBpcyB0aGF0IG5vLCB3ZeKAmXJl IG5vdCBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGluIE9BTS4gIFRoYXQgd291bGQNCnN1cnByaXNlIHNvbWUsIGJlY2F1 c2UgSSB3YXMgdGhlIGVkaXRvciBvZiB0aGUgSUVFRSA4MDIuMSBFdGhlcm5ldCBPQU0NCmRvY3Vt ZW50LCBoYXZlIG15IG5hbWUgb24gdGhlIFRSSUxMIE9BTSBkcmFmdHMsIGFuZCBJ4oCZbSBhIGJp ZyBmYW4gb2YgT0FNLg0KDQpUaGUgcmVhc29ucyAod2hpY2ggd291bGQgaGF2ZSB0byBnbyBpbnRv IHRoZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZHJhZnQpIGluY2x1ZGU6DQoNCiAgMS4gV2UgaG9wZSB0byBub3Qg aW50cm9kdWNlIGFueSBuZXcgdHVubmVsaW5nIHRlY2huaXF1ZXMgdGhhdCB3b3VsZA0KcmVxdWly ZSBhIG5ldyBraW5kIG9mIE9BTS4gIFRoZSBleGlzdGluZyBPQU0gc2hvdWxkIGNvdmVyIHVzLiAg KE5vdGUgdGhhdA0KZXhpc3RpbmcgT0FNIHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBmb3IgYm90aCBFdGhlcm5ldCBh bmQgTVBMUyBpbmNsdWRlIGxhdGVuY3kNCm1lYXN1cmVtZW50cy4pDQogIDIuIFdoZW4gYW4gYXBw bGljYXRpb24gd2FudHMgMTBeKC0xMikgcGFja2V0IGxvc3MgcmF0ZSwgbm8gYW1vdW50IG9mIE9B TQ0KcGFja2V0cyBnZXR0aW5nIHRocm91Z2ggZ2l2ZSBzdWZmaWNpZW50IGFzc3VyYW5jZSB0aGF0 IHRoZSBkYXRhIHBhY2tldHMNCndpbGwgZ2V0IHRocm91Z2guICBGb3IgdGhpcyByZWFzb24sIHdl IChJRUVFIFA4MDIuMUNCIGRyYWZ0KSBkbyB0aGluZ3MNCmxpa2UgcmFpc2UgYW4gYWxhcm0gaWYg dGhlIGR1cGxpY2F0ZSBlbGltaW5hdGlvbiBmdW5jdGlvbiBhdCB0aGUgZW5kIG9mIGENCmR1YWwt cGF0aCBkdXBsaWNhdGVkIHN0cmVhbSBmaW5kcyBpdHNlbGYgbm90IHRocm93aW5nIGF3YXkgaGFs ZiB0aGUNCnBhY2tldHMgaXQgcmVjZWl2ZXMuICBJRUVFIDgwMi4xIGhhcyBhIG5ldyBwcm9qZWN0 IGZvciBwZXItZmxvdyBmaWx0ZXJpbmcNCmFuZCBwb2xpY2luZyB0aGF0IHdpbGwgbGlrZWx5IHJh aXNlIGFuIGFsYXJtIGlmIGEgc3RyZWFtIHNlZW1zIGluYWN0aXZlLg0KICAzLiBUaGVyZSBpcyBu byBleHRhbnQgT0FNIHRoYXQgSSBrbm93IG9mIHRoYXQgdHJhdmVyc2VzIGEgbWl4ZWQNCmJyaWRn ZWQvcm91dGVkIG5ldHdvcmsgZm9yIG9yZGluYXJ5IGRhdGEsIGFuZCB0aGF0IGdpdmVzIHZpc2li aWxpdHkgdG8NCmJvdGggYnJpZGdlcyBhbmQgcm91dGVycywgdG8gc2VydmUgYXMgdGhlIGJhc2lz IGZvciBhIERldE5ldCBPQU0uDQoNCkkgd291bGQgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB0aGUgc29sdXRpb24gdG8g cG9pbnQgMyB3b3VsZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgc28gZ2VuZXJhbCB0aGF0DQppdCBiZWxvbmdzIGluIGFu b3RoZXIgV0cgdGhhbiBEZXROZXQuDQoNCuKAlCBOb3JtDQoNCj5UaGFua3MsDQo+TG91DQo+DQo+ PiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+Pg0KPj4gUGFzY2FsDQo+Pg0KPj4+IOKAlCBOb3JtDQo+Pj4NCj4+PiAtLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPj4+IEZyb206IFBhc2NhbCBUaHViZXJ0IDxwdGh1YmVy dEBjaXNjby5jb20+DQo+Pj4gRGF0ZTogVGh1cnNkYXksIEFwcmlsIDksIDIwMTUgYXQgMTA6NTcg QU0NCj4+PiBUbzogImRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJEZWJvcmFo IEJydW5nYXJkDQo+Pj4gKGRicnVuZ2FyZEBhdHQuY29tKSAoZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0dC5jb20pIiA8 ZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0dC5jb20+LCBFcmlrDQo+Pj4gTm9yZG1hcmsgPG5vcmRtYXJrQGFjbS5vcmc+ LCBMb3UgQmVyZ2VyIDxsYmVyZ2VyQGxhYm4ubmV0Pg0KPj4+IENjOiBUb20gUGhpbm5leSA8dG9t LnBoaW5uZXlAY294Lm5ldD4sICJJU0ExMDAtQ05NQElTQS1PTkxJTkUuT1JHIg0KPj4+IDxJU0Ex MDAtQ05NQElTQS1PTkxJTkUuT1JHPiwgIkFsaWEgQXRsYXMgKGFrYXRsYXNAZ21haWwuY29tKSIN Cj4+PiA8YWthdGxhc0BnbWFpbC5jb20+DQo+Pj4gU3ViamVjdDogW0RldG5ldF0gVGhlIHJvYWQg dG8gRGV0TmV0DQo+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gRGVhciBhbGw6DQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IEFzIEpvdW5pIHBvaW50 ZWQgb3V0LCB3ZSBoYXZlIGxpdHRsZSB0aW1lIHRvIG1ha2UgYSBjb21wZWxsaW5nIGNhc2UNCj4+ Pj5mb3INCj4+Pj4gRGV0TmV0LiBUaGUgY3V0b2ZmIGZvcnJldWVzdGluZyB0aGUgQm9GIGlzIEp1 bmUgNXRoLCBidXQgYSBsYXN0IG1pbnV0ZQ0KPj4+PiBidXJzdCBvZiBhY3Rpdml0eSBpcyBubyBn cmVhdCBzaWduIGZvciB0aGUgSUVTRy4NCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gV2hhdCB3ZSBoYXZlIGluIGdvb2Qg c3RhdGUgKHNlZSBteSBwb3N0IGFib3V0IHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIHRvZGF5KToNCj4+Pj4gLSBkb2N1 bWVudHMgKDQgbWFqb3IgV0lQKQ0KPj4+PiAJaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2Ry YWZ0LWZpbm4tZGV0bmV0LWFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZQ0KPj4+PiAJaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWZpbm4tZGV0bmV0LXByb2JsZW0tc3RhdGVtZW50DQo+Pj4+IAlodHRwczov L3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtZ3VudGhlci1kZXRuZXQtcHJvYXVkaW8tcmVxDQo+ Pj4+IAlodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtd2V0dGVyd2FsZC1kZXRuZXQt dXRpbGl0aWVzLXJlcXMNCj4+Pj4gLSByZWZlcmVuY2VzICg2VGlTQ0ggYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIGNs ZWFybHkgaW5kaWNhdGVzIERldE5ldA0KPj4+PiBkZXBlbmRlbmNpZXMsIElFRUUgY29vcmRpbmF0 aW9uIHByb3ZpZGVzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQNCj4+Pj4gTGF5ZXIyLWluZGVwZW5kZW50IHdv cmsgaXMgbmVlZGVkIGluIHRoZSBpbmR1c3RyeSkNCj4+Pj4gCWh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC1pZXRmLTZ0aXNjaC1hcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUNCj4+Pj4gCWh0dHBzOi8vdG9v bHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC13YW5nLTZ0aXNjaC10cmFjay11c2UtY2FzZXMNCj4+Pj4g LSBhIGRyYWZ0IGNoYXJ0ZXINCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gV2hhdCB3ZSBzZWVtIHRvIGJlIG1p c3Npbmc6DQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+IC0gYW4gaW1wcm92ZWQgZ2FwIGFuYWx5c2lzLiBUZWQgTGVtb24g aW5kaWNhdGVkIGF0IHRoZSBCb0YgdGhhdCB0aGlzDQo+Pj4+IGdhcCBhbmFseXNpcyB3b3VsZCBi ZSBjcnVjaWFsIHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBpZiBhbmQgd2hpY2ggd29yayB3b3VsZCBiZQ0KPj4+PiBuZWVk ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgSUVURi4gRnJvbSB0aGUgZWFybHkgd29yayBvbiBnYXAgYW5hbHlzaXMsIGl0 IHNlZW1zDQo+Pj4+IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgd29yayB0aGF0IGhhcyBubyBob21lLCBsaWtlIHRo ZSBvdmVyYWxsIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBhbmQNCj4+Pj4gY29vcmRpbmF0aW9uLCBhbmQgYSBudW1i ZXIgb2YgaXRlbXMgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIGEgaG9tZSBpbg0KPj4+PmRpZmZlcmVudA0KPj4+ PiBwbGFjZXMsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBhdCBsZWFzdCBQQ0UsIENDQU1QLCBURUFTLCBNUExTIGFuZCBU U1ZXRy4gV2UgbXVzdA0KPj4+PiByZWZpbmUgdGhpcyBnYXAgYW5hbHlzaXMgYW5kIGNsYXJpZnkg dGhlIGRlcGVuZGVuY2llcy4NCj4+Pj4NCj4+Pj4gLSBhbiBldmFsdWF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBhbW91 bnQgb2Ygd29yay4gTG91IGluZGljYXRlZCB0aGF0IENDQU1QIGhhcw0KPj4+PiBhbHJlYWR5IGhv c3RlZCB3b3JrIGluIHRoZSBwYXN0LiBUaGUgYW1vdW50IG9mIHdvcmsgd291bGQgYmUgYW4NCj4+ Pj4gaW5kaWNhdGlvbiBpZiBEZXROZXQgY2FuIHNpbXBseSBiZSBob3N0ZWQgaW4gYW4gZXhpc3Rp bmcgV0cgb3Igc2hvdWxkDQo+Pj4+IGJlIGl0cyBvd24gV0cuIElmIHRoZSBwcm9wb3NlZCBjaGFy dGVyIGlzIGFueSBpbmRpY2F0aW9uLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhDQo+Pj4+IGxvdCB0aGF0IG11c3QgYmUg ZG9uZSBiZWZvcmUgd2UgYXJlIHJlYWR5IHRvIGFzayBmb3IgYSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uDQo+Pj4g PmZyb20gdGhlIGdyb3VwcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgYWJvdmUuDQo+Pj4+IC0gYW4gaW5kdXN0cmlhbCBh dXRvbWF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBkcmFmdC4gV2UgaGF2ZSBhIG51bWJlciBvZg0KPj4+PiBn cmVhdCBwb3RlbnRpYWwgYXV0aG9ycywgYnV0IG5vIG9uZSBwdWJsaXNoZWQgRGV0TmV0IHdvcmsg dG8gZGF0ZS4gT25lDQo+Pj4+IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gY291bGQgYmUgdG8gdXNlDQo+Pj4+IA0KPj4+ Pmh0dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtcm9sbC1ycGwtaW5kdXN0cmlh bC1hcHBsaWNhYmlsaXR5DQo+Pj4+IGFzIGEgc3RhcnRpbmcgcG9pbnQgYW5kIGVsYWJvcmF0ZSBv biB0aGUgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBmbG93cy4gQW5vdGhlcg0KPj4+PiB3b3VsZCBiZSB0aGF0IGFu IGV4dGVybmFsIGdyb3VwIHN1Y2ggYXMgSVNBMTAwIHB1Ymxpc2hlcyBpdHMNCj4+Pj4gcmVxdWly ZW1lbnRzIGluIGl0cyBvd24gdGVybXMgYW5kIGZvcm1hdHMsIGFuZCB0aGVuIHdlIHdyaXRlIGEg c2hvcnQNCj4+Pj4gZHJhZnQgdGhhdCByZWZlcmVuY2VzIGl0Lg0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiAtIGFjdGl2 aXR5IG9uIHRoaXMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LiBXZSBuZWVkIHJldmlld3MgYW5kIGRpc2N1c3Npb25z IG9uDQo+Pj4+dGhlDQo+Pj4+IGRyYWZ0cyBhbmQgdGhlIGNoYXJ0ZXIuIFdlIG5lZWQgaW5wdXRz IGZvciB0aGUgZ2FwIGFuYWx5c2lzLA0KPj4+PiBjb25zaWRlcmluZyB0aGUgc2NvcGUgb2YgdGhl IGV4aXN0aW5nIFdHcyB2ZXJzdXMgdGhlIHdvcmsgZGV0YWlsZWQgaW4NCj4+Pj4gdGhlIGNoYXJ0 ZXIuIFdlIG5lZWQgdG8gZGVtb25zdHJhdGUgdGhhdCB3ZSBoYXZlIGFuIGFjdGl2ZSB0ZWFtIHRo YXQNCj4+Pj5pcw0KPj4+PiByZWFkeSB0byBleGVjdXRlIG9uIHRoZSBjb21taXRtZW50IHRoYXQg d2UgYWxsIHdvdWxkIHRha2Ugd2l0aCB0aGUNCj4+Pj5JRVNHIGJ5DQo+Pj4gZm9ybWluZyBhIFdH Lg0KPj4+PiAtIG90aGVyPw0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiBQbGVhc2UgaW5kaWNhdGUgaWYgeW91IGFyZSB3 aWxsaW5nIHRvIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGUgdG8gYW55IG9mIHRoZSBpdGVtcw0KPj4+PiBhYm92ZSBhbmQg ZmlyZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9ucyBhdCB3aWxsIQ0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiBDaGVlcnM7DQo+Pj4+DQo+Pj4+ IFBhc2NhbA0KPj4+Pg0KPj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+PiBkZXRuZXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+Pj4+IGRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KPj4+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2RldG5ldA0KPg0K Pg0KDQo= From nobody Sun May 3 22:59:44 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18FD1ACD79 for ; Sun, 3 May 2015 22:59:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q8GVMHKUao7d for ; Sun, 3 May 2015 22:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 908DD1ACD76 for ; Sun, 3 May 2015 22:59:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6639; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1430719180; x=1431928780; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=lcc/zjhoBVKNMaqD04zT4z4IidyJJNL9WoSKaB6JUyg=; b=TXqdaeUxJDmWVJfYkOn0M882tlkEpospGp+dCn+CwTT23961ivre/yci eSjRESydgNKJVEZGMvS0TzUcfLn7TGmWPMrLIpk3Wi7QMleb1inUsu8PJ VrhsyEZSxBvHrFbJJNcpzlfWY6hkqC4Os5D0G5SupCm2r7fRU6xv7S0qY o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BRBACvCUdV/4QNJK1SCoMMU1wFxWAJgUwKhTZOAoFFOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIQEBBAEBAWsdAQgSWwsXDgEBBAESiCsNxEkBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEWBIs5hCgEClaELQWGU4R7hj+KUoEkg1KRKCOBZYIPb4ECQoEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,364,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="146718210" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 May 2015 05:59:39 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t445xdWx020093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 05:59:39 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.13]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 00:59:39 -0500 From: "Maik Seewald (maseewal)" To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] new proposed charter Thread-Index: AdCDkLodks7invapRzqyy7QiQsTHMQC2XZCA Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 05:59:31 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.56.232.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <2E6CECC7DDA75E40856A2389E067DA87@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 05:59:42 -0000 Patrick, one comment regarding the background. In case you are planning to cover the utility/power system domain within the OT space as well, I propose to add the use case and terminus =B3protection". Within this domain, we typically talk about monitoring, protection, and control as 3 core use cases with different objectives and requirements. Thanks. Mike On 30.04.15 23:59, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: >Dear all: > >After discussion with some of the ADs (huge, huge thanks there!) and >among yourselves, you have shortened the proposed charter to be more >scoped and focused to achievable deliverables. >We now have a clear line of work in front of us. The only thing that can >really block this work at this point is the lack of visible activity. >Please remember, participation to the IETF work is free and personal. >We do need you guys to chime in, whether it is to comment and improve the >text, or simply express support that the work needs to happen and that >you are willing to contribute. > >The proposed new text reads as follows: > >" > > >detnet: "deterministic networking" > >Background on deterministic networking >-------------------------------------- > >Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are >typically used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as >well as movement detection systems for use in process control (i.e., >process manufacturing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete >manufacturing). Due to its different goals, OT has evolved in parallel >but in a manner that is radically different from Information >Technology/Information and Communications Technology (IT/ICT), focusing >on highly secure, reliable and deterministic networks, with limited >scalability over a bounded area. Deterministic networks are characterized >as having a bounded latency, very low loss, and a very narrow jitter. > >In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home >audio/video markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) >standards efforts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and >multimedia in transportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in >vehicle head units, rear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera >modules, and engine control systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT >requirements for extremely low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite >latency, and low jitter. > >This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the >IEEE 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) >Task Group (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The >networks in consideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and >require deterministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 >network. The properties of deterministic networks will have specific >requirements for the use of routed networks to support these >applications. > >WG description >-------------- > >The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the >establishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged >and Layer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 >aspects in support of deterministic applications. The group will >collaborate with IEEE802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 >operations, to define a common architecture to support IEEE802.1TSN >applications. For the common architecture, a number of elements such as >the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be agnostic to the choice of >network used for the connectivity. > >The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses >the data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are >required to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with >the deterministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, >ultra-low jitter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that >can be characterized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve >the appropriate resources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse >the resources when they are no more required. The work will cover the >characterization of flows, the encapsulation of frames, the required >forwarding behaviors, as well as the state that may need to be >established in intermediate nodes; it will not include end-to-end >considerations such as transport protocols. Candidate Layer 3 data plane >technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focuses on the data >plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that will be used. >The data p > lane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE801.1TSN. > >The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including >CCAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, >requirements may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, >TEAS, and CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the >consistency of the overall architecture. The WG will liaise with >appropriate groups in IEEE and other Standards Development Organizations >(SDOs). > > >Work Items =20 >---------- > >- Deliverables: > =20 > =20 > * Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment >environment and deterministic network requirements which need to be >supported. > > * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, >management, control, and security aspects. > > * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow >identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. > =20 > * Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flow >reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be >independent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or >GMPLS). > =20 > * Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will >cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. >buffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. >Such information may also be used when advertising the deterministic >network elements to a control plane. The model should be independent from >the protocol(s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS >or GMPLS extensions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the >working groups that define the base models. >" > >Cheers, > >Pascal and Jouni > >_______________________________________________ >detnet mailing list >detnet@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon May 4 05:53:04 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A368A1A005C for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79ID2ESQiNqi for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 05:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00176a03.pphosted.com (mx0b-00176a03.pphosted.com [67.231.157.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37F141A0065 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 05:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0048300.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0048300.ppops.net-00176a03. (8.14.7/8.14.7) with SMTP id t44CodO7009187 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:52:59 -0400 Received: from cinmlip10.e2k.ad.ge.com ([12.71.149.1]) by m0048300.ppops.net-00176a03. with ESMTP id 1u68y50084-41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 04 May 2015 08:52:59 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO CINMBHT01.e2k.ad.ge.com) ([3.159.212.194]) by cinmlip10.e2k.ad.ge.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 04 May 2015 08:39:07 -0400 Received: from CINMBAPD05.e2k.ad.ge.com (3.159.212.44) by CINMBHT01.e2k.ad.ge.com (3.159.212.194) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.224.2; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:52:46 -0400 Received: from CINMBCNA05.e2k.ad.ge.com ([169.254.5.28]) by CINMBAPD05.e2k.ad.ge.com ([169.254.7.14]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:52:45 -0400 From: "Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research)" To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] new proposed charter Thread-Index: AdCDkLodks7invapRzqyy7QiQsTHMQC1se3g Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 12:52:45 +0000 Message-ID: <6A0CC2494A53EF448242EA1DEA96DC9C1DBD7F70@CINMBCNA05.e2k.ad.ge.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [3.159.212.193] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.13.68, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-05-04_01:2015-05-04,2015-05-03,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1402240000 definitions=main-1505040153 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 12:53:02 -0000 Pascal, One of the techniques currently used in OT is to physically isolate the cri= tical networks such that they can provide deterministic behavior there are = a few exceptions to this where either proprietary techniques or techniques = outside of the domain of IEEE802.1 have been implemented to achieve determi= nistic behaviors to coexist with non-deterministic traffic. In my mind, IE= EE802.1 is dealing with the L2 aspects of determinism in a network of mixed= traffic types where as DETNET must deal with the that deterministic traffi= c in the wild. Security then becomes an over-riding concern, where physical= network isolation provided a layer of defense, that will no longer be the = case one we cross the boundary to L3. In your third paragraph I would place= more emphasis on this point by simply adding the words physical and secure= to the following sentence: "The networks in consideration are extending be= yond the physical LAN boundaries and require secure deterministic forwardin= g and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 network." Daniel Sexton GE Global Research One Research Circle Niskayuna, NY 12309 O: 518-387-4121 M:518-424-5728 DC:*833-4121 -----Original Message----- From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (= pthubert) Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 6:00 PM To: detnet@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] new proposed charter Dear all: After discussion with some of the ADs (huge, huge thanks there!) and among = yourselves, you have shortened the proposed charter to be more scoped and f= ocused to achievable deliverables.=20 We now have a clear line of work in front of us. The only thing that can re= ally block this work at this point is the lack of visible activity. Please = remember, participation to the IETF work is free and personal. We do need you guys to chime in, whether it is to comment and improve the t= ext, or simply express support that the work needs to happen and that you a= re willing to contribute.=20 The proposed new text reads as follows: " detnet: "deterministic networking"=20 Background on deterministic networking -------------------------------------- Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are typicall= y used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as well as move= ment detection systems for use in process control (i.e., process manufactur= ing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete manufacturing). Due to its diff= erent goals, OT has evolved in parallel but in a manner that is radically d= ifferent from Information Technology/Information and Communications Technol= ogy (IT/ICT), focusing on highly secure, reliable and deterministic network= s, with limited scalability over a bounded area. Deterministic networks are= characterized as having a bounded latency, very low loss, and a very narro= w jitter. In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home audio/video = markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) standards eff= orts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and multimedia in tran= sportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in vehicle head units, r= ear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera modules, and engine cont= rol systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT requirements for extremel= y low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency, and low jitter. This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the IEEE= 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) Task Gro= up (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The networks in co= nsideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and require determinist= ic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 network. The properti= es of deterministic networks will have specific requirements for the use of= routed networks to support these applications. WG description -------------- The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the estab= lishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged and La= yer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 aspects in s= upport of deterministic applications. The group will collaborate with IEEE= 802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 operations, to define a common a= rchitecture to support IEEE802.1TSN applications. For the common architectu= re, a number of elements such as the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be = agnostic to the choice of network used for the connectivity.=20 The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses the= data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are requir= ed to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with the det= erministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, ultra-low jit= ter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that can be charact= erized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve the appropriate re= sources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse the resources when t= hey are no more required. The work will cover the characterization of flows= , the encapsulation of frames, the required forwarding behaviors, as well a= s the state that may need to be established in intermediate nodes; it will = not include end-to-end considerations such as transport protocols. Candidat= e Layer 3 data plane technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focu= ses on the data plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that w= ill be used. The data p lane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE= 801.1TSN. The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including C= CAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, requirem= ents may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and = CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the consistency of t= he overall architecture. The WG will liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE= and other Standards Development Organizations (SDOs). Work Items =20 ---------- - Deliverables: =20 =20 * Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment environme= nt and deterministic network requirements which need to be supported. * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, ma= nagement, control, and security aspects. * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow identifi= cation and packet forwarding over Layer 3.=20 =20 * Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flow re= servation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be independent = from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or GMPLS). =20 * Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will cov= er device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. buffe= rs, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. Such i= nformation may also be used when advertising the deterministic network elem= ents to a control plane. The model should be independent from the protocol(= s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS or GMPLS exten= sions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the working groups that de= fine the base models. " Cheers, Pascal and Jouni _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon May 4 08:06:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D53B61A1BA5 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7BwNdFQJzf_c for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9EED1A1A83 for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 08:06:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6172; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1430751963; x=1431961563; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=vL2xFTS9gX5KRWEgm+8rM2JT2D2wEsHl+Xit2To/0Kc=; b=mVbAwlqJFD5U3iGz9AgjoNxxTFnTJ48g/1/udEgwlzC8OeDtBCBuR0hX rB/RdqEL/9OJjy7yTuBGaI0nhehWjgJJ8/YzTF5nqgGsIIrbUVV3xIf6h mcjhzixvY6O5vJZdn7kkMTmRKfuoogAvjiITLznOSf7guO/qKAIVIfN5P I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BUBAACikdV/4ENJK1SCoMMU1wFxHpmCYFMCoU3TgKBKjgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCEBAQQBAQFrGwIBCBIQJCcLFwQBBgMBAQQBEgiIIw3FNQEBAQEBAQEDAQEBAQEBARcEizmEKAQog0+BFgWGU4R7hj+KU5YdI4N0b4ECQoEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,366,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="146917337" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 May 2015 15:06:02 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t44F62W3004960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 May 2015 15:06:02 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.187]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 4 May 2015 10:06:02 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] new proposed charter Thread-Index: AdCDkLodks7invapRzqyy7QiQsTHMQAArq4gALnUOrA= Date: Mon, 4 May 2015 15:06:02 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 4 May 2015 15:06:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.49.80.14] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 15:06:06 -0000 Dear all: I incorporated Dan's comment about security (thanks Dan!) : Also I talked with our A-Ds and understand that the problem statement is ou= r first deliverable and it should be out quickly.=20 We are still welcome to make that more than one doc, e.g. turn the requirem= ent drafts in RFCs as initially intended, but that should not delay the com= pletion of that task.=20 An alternate is for requirement drafts is to turn them in applicability sta= tements. There is not a huge gap between the two, and it would probably be = more useful if we consider the overall production of our group. Charter is now: " detnet: "deterministic networking"=20 Background on deterministic networking=A0=20 -------------------------------------- Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are typicall= y used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as well as move= ment detection systems for use in process control (i.e., process manufactur= ing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete manufacturing). Due to its diff= erent goals, OT has evolved in parallel but in a manner that is radically d= ifferent from Information Technology/Information and Communications Technol= ogy (IT/ICT), focusing on highly secure, reliable and deterministic network= s, with limited scalability over a bounded area. Deterministic networks are= characterized as having a bounded latency, very low loss, and a very narro= w jitter. In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home audio/video = markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) standards eff= orts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and multimedia in tran= sportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in vehicle head units, r= ear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera modules, and engine cont= rol systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT requirements for extremel= y low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency, and low jitter. This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the IEEE= 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) Task Gro= up (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The networks in co= nsideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and require secure dete= rministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 network. The p= roperties of deterministic networks will have specific requirements for the= use of routed networks to support these applications. WG description -------------- The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the estab= lishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged and La= yer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 aspects in s= upport of deterministic applications. The group will collaborate with IEEE= 802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 operations, to define a common a= rchitecture to support IEEE802.1TSN applications. For the common architectu= re, a number of elements such as the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be = agnostic to the choice of network used for the connectivity.=20 The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses the= data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are requir= ed to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with the det= erministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, ultra-low jit= ter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that can be charact= erized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve the appropriate re= sources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse the resources when t= hey are no more required. The work will cover the characterization of flows= , the encapsulation of frames, the required forwarding behaviors, as well a= s the state that may need to be established in intermediate nodes; it will = not include end-to-end considerations such as transport protocols. Candidat= e Layer 3 data plane technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focu= ses on the data plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that w= ill be used. The data plane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE80= 1.1TSN. The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including C= CAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, requirem= ents may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and = CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the consistency of t= he overall architecture. The WG will liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE= . Work Items=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 ---------- - Deliverables: =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0* Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment envir= onment and deterministic network requirements which need to be supported. =A0 * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, = management, control, and security aspects. =A0 * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow identi= fication and packet forwarding over Layer 3.=20 =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flo= w reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be independ= ent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or GMPLS). =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will= cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. b= uffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. Su= ch information may also be used when advertising the deterministic network = elements to a control plane. The model should be independent from the proto= col(s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS or GMPLS e= xtensions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the working groups tha= t define the base models. " Cheers, Pascal and Jouni _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon May 4 12:22:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B3B1ACE8A for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 12:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.667 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.667 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k7ryBmKgIhXg for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.33.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 552131ACE8C for ; Mon, 4 May 2015 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 15334 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 2015 19:22:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw4) (10.0.90.85) by gproxy8.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 4 May 2015 19:22:46 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw4 with id Q1Ni1q00x2SSUrH011Nldg; Mon, 04 May 2015 19:22:45 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=D8zUdJhj c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=SY9aFQKHIdAA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=cNaOj0WVAAAA:8 a=-NfooI8aBGcA:10 a=uEJ9t1CZtbIA:10 a=h1PgugrvaO0A:10 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=N54-gffFAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=jQUG51DtAAAA:8 a=7oBaoQDNsp7SWdQyeToA:9 a=BCMi6FgWWeYzn0SZ:21 a=lLnXyU2YunekHbKO:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=janyadaL15tyqtWDn4B94qBHv0/5scIK4W6dMzt4tWY=; b=gwBt3Xhsfx/GFdTX0Abg31Umy/3qoCexLgmTaN5jQ9Im+n2X+8gdZE3nqnz0ZP4ivG8+LazSjpKfV1jT9+2FFFKS4ibBn5K+n8c9z+LurBrOBVmlwZY8Dg8dZ4VJMQva; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:46571 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YpLwx-00061E-Dh; Mon, 04 May 2015 13:22:43 -0600 Message-ID: <5547C6F9.7010700@labn.net> Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 15:22:33 -0400 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" , "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "Deborah Brungard (dbrungard@att.com) (dbrungard@att.com)" , Erik Nordmark References: <55421786.5020500@labn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Archived-At: Cc: Tom Phinney , "Alia Atlas \(akatlas@gmail.com\)" Subject: Re: [Detnet] The road to DetNet X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2015 19:22:53 -0000 Hi Norm, Thanks for the response. See below. On 5/1/2015 6:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) wrote: > Lou, > > See in-line for a couple of responses. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Berger > Date: Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 04:52 AM > To: Pascal Thubert , Norman Finn , > "detnet@ietf.org" , "Deborah Brungard (dbrungard@att.com) > (dbrungard@att.com)" , Erik Nordmark > Cc: Tom Phinney , "Alia Atlas (akatlas@gmail.com)" > > Subject: Re: [Detnet] The road to DetNet > >> Hi, >> See below for some comments. >> >> On 4/27/2015 3:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >>> Hi Norm: >>> >>>> DetNet is: >>>> >>>> 1. Time synchronization. >>>> 2. Zero congestion loss. >>>> 3. Seamless redundancy. (Figure 1 in the architecture) >>>> 4. Peer-to-peer protocols to set up any of the above. >>>> 5. Central control paradigms to set up any of the above. >>>> 6. Robust defenses against misbehaving end and relay systems. >> >> Isn't this list missing the key point of operation 802.1 bridged >> networks interconnected over L3? (Without it, it's just 802.1TSN, right?) > We could certainly add: > > 7. Operation over bridged, routed, mixed, or non-Ethernet networks. I think operation L2-only operation belongs to the IEEE, so just need to be careful to not go there. > I only phrase it this way to avoid any implication (not intended by you, > as is clear from your later comments) that the end stations have to be > connected to L2 networks. L2 tunneling technologies between bridged > networks are not precluded, by any means, but we don’t want them to be > necessary, and all-L3 networks are definitely a use case for DetNet. >>>> That seems to be a lot of stuff, but when we divide it up into >>>> specific work items >>>> a lot of things are already done or should be done elsewhere than in a >>>> DetNet >>>> WG: >>>> >>>> A. Time synchronization is solved elsewhere. DetNet need not invent >>>> anything, >>>> here. >> 100% agree, but DetNet needs to ensure proper operation over L3 (devices) >> >>>> B. IEEE 802 have defined more than enough queuing and scheduling >>>> mechanisms to solve the problem of zero congestion loss for constant >>>> bit-rate >>>> flows at the lowest levels of the stack. DetNet need not invent >>>> anything, here. >> Thankfully, there are also L3/IETF mechanisms that can be leveraged here >> too. >>> Right: and/but I love the way Pat Thaler presented it at an adhoc with >>> Lou. >> I believe you, but don't recall this specific point;-) >> >>> This queues and timers and buffers system is really completely abstract >> >from MAC/PHY technology and could be seen as an upper MAC function if >>> passing a frame to the MAC allowed instantaneous presentation to the >>> wire. >>> I think it would be good that this abstraction is presented in a way >>> that is separated from Ethernet so we can reuse that abstraction >>> everywhere. Is it already like that or would we need a short document >>> that defines the entities and points to the IEEE doc for more details? >> This is good and important, particularly when mapping back and forth to >> IETF mechanisms. >> >>>> C. There is definitely DetNet work required to either invent or >>>> select (select is >>>> better) one or more specific data plane methods related to Seamless >>>> Redundancy (see the architecture draft). >> MPLS related mechanisms (I'm thinking TP more than FRR, but think this >> is a discussion point) may be a good starting point for the L3 portion >> of this. > After many years of being a non-fan of MPLS, I have to admit that its > ability to export the flow ID to the outside of the packet is very, very > useful in the context of DetNet; it makes it easy to do per-flow contract > validation and, when needed, to assign per-flow resources. Yup, its TE mechanisms seem well aligned. I sort of chuckled when I saw draft-mirsky-mpls-residence-time announced soon after reading your mail. >>>> We need a method that works end-to- >>>> end through routers and bridges to: >>>> >>>> 1. Identify individual DetNet flows. >>> Yes. That will be an inters >> Echoing my earlier point, 802.1 TSN operation across a collection of >> bridges and routers is the fundamental unique effort of DetNet. >> >>>> 2. Operate on a sequence number in a DetNet packet. >>> Yes >>> >>>> D. We require service-level YANG models for: >>>> >>>> 1. Pinned-down paths through the network. >>> Yes, which related to pinned down resources defined in B >>> >>>> 2. Resource reservations along: >>>> >>>> i) a pinned-down path; or >>>> >>> There are really 2 versions of that. >>> >>> In the TE model where flows are installed asynchronously, >> TE, from the architectural perspective doesn't predicate a specific >> control behavior, so I'd omit the word "asynchronously" to be accurate. >> >>> the classical model is to send a control message at ingress with the >>> path in it. The message progresses along the indicated path till it is >>> all set. I understand that this is what CCAMP is used to. >> This is one model and one shared by both MPLS-TE and GMPLS (by using >> RSVP-TE for signaling and IS-IS/OSPF for resource >> discovery/advertisement). >> >> Static allocation via management plane (e.g., in TP networks) and >> controller based models (e.g., using PCEP, YANG, etc) are also valid TE >> architecture implementation approaches. >> >>> Then you have the case of a very stable network like an airbus. >>> One may want the system to push the full schedule of each node >>> individually as a package, as opposed to set up flow by flow. >>> For 6TiSCH, this model saves a lot of battery. >> Management based control of TE is definitely useful in a number of use >> cases. >> >>>> ii) a normal, dynamic path through the network topology; >>>> >> Are there any OAM considerations? This has been hot topic in a similar >> recent discussions. > That’s a good question — not because I’m being polite, but because we > haven’t given it much thought. > > My first reaction is that no, we’re not interested in OAM. That would > surprise some, because I was the editor of the IEEE 802.1 Ethernet OAM > document, have my name on the TRILL OAM drafts, and I’m a big fan of OAM. > > The reasons (which would have to go into the requirements draft) include: > > 1. We hope to not introduce any new tunneling techniques that would > require a new kind of OAM. The existing OAM should cover us. (Note that > existing OAM technologies for both Ethernet and MPLS include latency > measurements.) makes sense to me > 2. When an application wants 10^(-12) packet loss rate, no amount of OAM > packets getting through give sufficient assurance that the data packets > will get through. For this reason, we (IEEE P802.1CB draft) do things > like raise an alarm if the duplicate elimination function at the end of a > dual-path duplicated stream finds itself not throwing away half the > packets it receives. IEEE 802.1 has a new project for per-flow filtering > and policing that will likely raise an alarm if a stream seems inactive. > 3. There is no extant OAM that I know of that traverses a mixed > bridged/routed network for ordinary data, and that gives visibility to > both bridges and routers, to serve as the basis for a DetNet OAM. The MIP and MEP functions that were formalized along with MPLS-TP could be leveraged. That said, I think it's fine to be quite on this point for now. Lou > > I would think that the solution to point 3 would something so general that > it belongs in another WG than DetNet. > > — Norm > >> Thanks, >> Lou >> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Pascal >>> >>>> — Norm >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Pascal Thubert >>>> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 10:57 AM >>>> To: "detnet@ietf.org" , "Deborah Brungard >>>> (dbrungard@att.com) (dbrungard@att.com)" , Erik >>>> Nordmark , Lou Berger >>>> Cc: Tom Phinney , "ISA100-CNM@ISA-ONLINE.ORG" >>>> , "Alia Atlas (akatlas@gmail.com)" >>>> >>>> Subject: [Detnet] The road to DetNet >>>> >>>>> Dear all: >>>>> >>>>> As Jouni pointed out, we have little time to make a compelling case >>>>> for >>>>> DetNet. The cutoff forreuesting the BoF is June 5th, but a last minute >>>>> burst of activity is no great sign for the IESG. >>>>> >>>>> What we have in good state (see my post about the charter today): >>>>> - documents (4 major WIP) >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-architecture >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-problem-statement >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gunther-detnet-proaudio-req >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wetterwald-detnet-utilities-reqs >>>>> - references (6TiSCH architecture clearly indicates DetNet >>>>> dependencies, IEEE coordination provides information that >>>>> Layer2-independent work is needed in the industry) >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6tisch-architecture >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-6tisch-track-use-cases >>>>> - a draft charter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What we seem to be missing: >>>>> >>>>> - an improved gap analysis. Ted Lemon indicated at the BoF that this >>>>> gap analysis would be crucial to figure if and which work would be >>>>> needed from the IETF. From the early work on gap analysis, it seems >>>>> that there is work that has no home, like the overall architecture and >>>>> coordination, and a number of items that would have a home in >>>>> different >>>>> places, including at least PCE, CCAMP, TEAS, MPLS and TSVWG. We must >>>>> refine this gap analysis and clarify the dependencies. >>>>> >>>>> - an evaluation of the amount of work. Lou indicated that CCAMP has >>>>> already hosted work in the past. The amount of work would be an >>>>> indication if DetNet can simply be hosted in an existing WG or should >>>>> be its own WG. If the proposed charter is any indication, there is a >>>>> lot that must be done before we are ready to ask for a specification >>>> >from the groups mentioned above. >>>>> - an industrial automation requirements draft. We have a number of >>>>> great potential authors, but no one published DetNet work to date. One >>>>> suggestion could be to use >>>>> >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability >>>>> as a starting point and elaborate on the deterministic flows. Another >>>>> would be that an external group such as ISA100 publishes its >>>>> requirements in its own terms and formats, and then we write a short >>>>> draft that references it. >>>>> >>>>> - activity on this mailing list. We need reviews and discussions on >>>>> the >>>>> drafts and the charter. We need inputs for the gap analysis, >>>>> considering the scope of the existing WGs versus the work detailed in >>>>> the charter. We need to demonstrate that we have an active team that >>>>> is >>>>> ready to execute on the commitment that we all would take with the >>>>> IESG by >>>> forming a WG. >>>>> - other? >>>>> >>>>> Please indicate if you are willing to contribute to any of the items >>>>> above and fire discussions at will! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers; >>>>> >>>>> Pascal >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> detnet mailing list >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> From nobody Tue May 12 03:03:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B61A01A8758 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0cv0zN1z9gdw for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F5951A874D for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:03:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8088; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431424985; x=1432634585; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=QJH8mFtVB/Nku/XSo4uKqUxZbqbKIxky6As1YeGD+e0=; b=e03fx+AFzSXR4drujm8ufiDAjf8ptqegnux8QFp2D7CcnoJZlZ8jDi0K VDIU3asZUcxMVXRT18ob+d8996nWPbnlWsyef8vGgKLKhZN6ZaHgE9bsh StB6oc9C/U5c0yJWOQy5JhDDnX/lb7eD4BXoVdKNKPyKABfmbTFKmfujc g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0A/BQD1zlFV/4MNJK1SCoMPVF4GxDCCS4VDPgKBNkwBAQEBAQGBC4QgAQEBAwFoFgsCAQgSECQyFw4BAQQBGhOICQgNyQcBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFQSLOYJrgT0EKDiDF4EWBYZihQuELII0hCWGR4Ejg16RaCOCCRyBUm8FfkKBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,414,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="418990514" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2015 10:03:04 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com [173.37.183.76]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4CA343Z009879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 May 2015 10:03:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.93]) by xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com ([173.37.183.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 12 May 2015 05:03:04 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Grossman, Ethan A." , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Proposed Charter Thread-Index: AdCHiZoeEI+Eq9xrRJi+sqmsjRVS2wFDiNOQ Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 10:03:03 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 12 May 2015 10:03:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246EB3696F7D@DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net> In-Reply-To: <6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246EB3696F7D@DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.49.80.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] New Proposed Charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 10:03:07 -0000 Hello Ethan: Please see below: =20 > Nice to see y'all at the TSNA conference. Here are a couple of minor > comment/questions on the charter below. >=20 > In the descriptions below the requirement phrasing is something like "ext= remely > low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency, and low jitter". There = is no > mention of guaranteed/reserved bandwidth. Should that be in there or is i= t > implied by the above items? Let me add this. >=20 > Similarly, although I understand that we are leaving timing to others, it= seems > like a key part of determinism is timing, so maybe some kind of reference= to > timing requirements belongs in this statement, even if accompanied by our > disclaimer saying that we're leaving that topic to others? =20 There was a lot of clean up since the earlier charter, a lot about removing= information that did not effectively point on work to be done at the IETF. Certainly time will flow in the path setup, but mentioning it there may lea= d people into thinking that we need more work at the IETF that we can effec= tively achieve. The current text is good at focusing on the tasks to be done here, and I wo= uld not add to it. But others might think otherwise?=20 > Also I had previously understood that we were initially stating requireme= nts to > IETF and not proposing a specific solution or architecture, yet it sounds= from > below like we are very much tied to AVB/TSN. Is that a given now, or do w= e > need to dial that back? Could you please rephrase? My French sees its limits here; what I can commu= nicate is that the IETF will not form a group to spend 2 years delivering r= equirements. The requirements are useful for our public perception, but we all know we n= eed this stuff, and we must start doing it so as to produce implementable s= pecs within 2-3 years. The deliverables derive from that line of thought. And yes, we want to inhe= rit the model of queues, buffers, precise timing, and central controller f= rom the IEEE TSN work. > Minor fussy item: There are two similar but slightly different phrases: "= extremely > low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency, and low jitter" and "bo= unded > latency, very low loss, and a very narrow jitter". My sense is that the d= istinctions > made between them are not meaningful but cause one to have to think about > whether they are, so I would suggest we make them identical? I'll avoid repeating. Please see below or at https://bitbucket.org/detnet/docs/src/6c8cc07b4007a9= 4f5de2860dd32a2cb3b2311df2/detnet%20charter.txt?at=3Dmaster : ------------=20 detnet: "deterministic networking"=20 Background on deterministic networking=A0=20 -------------------------------------- Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are typicall= y used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as well as move= ment detection systems for use in process control (i.e., continuous manufac= turing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete manufacturing). Due to its d= ifferent goals, OT has evolved in parallel but in a manner that is radicall= y different from Information Technology/Information and Communications Tech= nology (IT/ICT), focusing on highly secure, reliable and deterministic netw= orks, with limited scalability over a bounded area.=20 In OT environments, deterministic networks are characterized as providing a= guaranteed bandwidth with extremely low packet loss rates, bounded latency= , and low jitter. In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home audio/video = markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) standards eff= orts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and multimedia in tran= sportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in vehicle head units, r= ear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera modules, and engine cont= rol systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT requirements for determin= istic networks characteristics. This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the IEEE= 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) Task Gro= up (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The networks in co= nsideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and require secure dete= rministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 network. The p= roperties of deterministic networks will have specific requirements for the= use of routed networks to support these applications. WG description -------------- The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the estab= lishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged and La= yer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 aspects in s= upport of deterministic applications. The group will collaborate with IEEE= 802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 operations, to define a common a= rchitecture to support IEEE802.1TSN applications. For the common architectu= re, a number of elements such as the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be = agnostic to the choice of network used for the connectivity.=20 The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses the= data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are requir= ed to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with the det= erministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, ultra-low jit= ter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that can be charact= erized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve the appropriate re= sources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse the resources when t= hey are no more required. The work will cover the characterization of flows= , the encapsulation of frames, the required forwarding behaviors, as well a= s the state that may need to be established in intermediate nodes; it will = not include end-to-end considerations such as transport protocols. Candidat= e Layer 3 data plane technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focu= ses on the data plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that w= ill be used. The data plane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE80= 1.1TSN. The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including C= CAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, requirem= ents may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and = CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the consistency of t= he overall architecture. The WG will liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE= . Work Items=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 ---------- - Deliverables: =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0* Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment envir= onment and deterministic network requirements which need to be supported. =A0 * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, = management, control, and security aspects. =A0 * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow identi= fication and packet forwarding over Layer 3.=20 =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flo= w reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be independ= ent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or GMPLS). =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will= cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. b= uffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. Su= ch information may also be used when advertising the deterministic network = elements to a control plane. The model should be independent from the proto= col(s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS or GMPLS e= xtensions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the working groups tha= t define the base models. What do you think? Pascal From nobody Tue May 12 11:14:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DDE1ACE29 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:14:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Py6dMRL0dsJ for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-000fd501.pphosted.com (mx0b-000fd501.pphosted.com [67.231.152.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E71BF1ACE36 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000695.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-000fd501.pphosted.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with SMTP id t4CI8bTu003234; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:13:56 -0700 Received: from dlb-xmrpw02.dolby.net (dcd-outbound.dolby.com [67.216.182.43]) by mx0b-000fd501.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1ubgvn142f-2 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 12 May 2015 11:13:56 -0700 Received: from DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net ([169.254.2.243]) by DLB-XMRPW02.dolby.net ([10.213.22.205]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Tue, 12 May 2015 11:13:54 -0700 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Proposed Charter Thread-Index: AdCHiZoeEI+Eq9xrRJi+sqmsjRVS2wFDiNOQABHR50A= Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:13:53 +0000 Message-ID: <6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246EB369A88F@DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net> References: <6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246EB3696F7D@DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.76.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-05-12_07:2015-05-12,2015-05-12,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] New Proposed Charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 18:14:05 -0000 Thanks Pascal, you have addressed my concerns.=20 Best, Ethan. -----Original Message----- From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) [mailto:pthubert@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:03 AM To: Grossman, Ethan A.; detnet@ietf.org Subject: RE: New Proposed Charter Hello Ethan: Please see below: =20 > Nice to see y'all at the TSNA conference. Here are a couple of minor=20 > comment/questions on the charter below. >=20 > In the descriptions below the requirement phrasing is something like=20 > "extremely low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency, and low=20 > jitter". There is no mention of guaranteed/reserved bandwidth. Should=20 > that be in there or is it implied by the above items? Let me add this. >=20 > Similarly, although I understand that we are leaving timing to others,=20 > it seems like a key part of determinism is timing, so maybe some kind=20 > of reference to timing requirements belongs in this statement, even if=20 > accompanied by our disclaimer saying that we're leaving that topic to oth= ers? =20 There was a lot of clean up since the earlier charter, a lot about removing= information that did not effectively point on work to be done at the IETF. Certainly time will flow in the path setup, but mentioning it there may lea= d people into thinking that we need more work at the IETF that we can effec= tively achieve. The current text is good at focusing on the tasks to be done here, and I wo= uld not add to it. But others might think otherwise?=20 > Also I had previously understood that we were initially stating=20 > requirements to IETF and not proposing a specific solution or=20 > architecture, yet it sounds from below like we are very much tied to=20 > AVB/TSN. Is that a given now, or do we need to dial that back? Could you please rephrase? My French sees its limits here; what I can commu= nicate is that the IETF will not form a group to spend 2 years delivering r= equirements. The requirements are useful for our public perception, but we all know we n= eed this stuff, and we must start doing it so as to produce implementable s= pecs within 2-3 years. The deliverables derive from that line of thought. And yes, we want to inhe= rit the model of queues, buffers, precise timing, and central controller f= rom the IEEE TSN work. > Minor fussy item: There are two similar but slightly different=20 > phrases: "extremely low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite latency,=20 > and low jitter" and "bounded latency, very low loss, and a very narrow=20 > jitter". My sense is that the distinctions made between them are not=20 > meaningful but cause one to have to think about whether they are, so I wo= uld suggest we make them identical? I'll avoid repeating. Please see below or at https://bitbucket.org/detnet/docs/src/6c8cc07b4007a9= 4f5de2860dd32a2cb3b2311df2/detnet%20charter.txt?at=3Dmaster : ------------=20 detnet: "deterministic networking"=20 Background on deterministic networking -------------------------------------- Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are typicall= y used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as well as move= ment detection systems for use in process control (i.e., continuous manufac= turing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete manufacturing). Due to its d= ifferent goals, OT has evolved in parallel but in a manner that is radicall= y different from Information Technology/Information and Communications Tech= nology (IT/ICT), focusing on highly secure, reliable and deterministic netw= orks, with limited scalability over a bounded area.=20 In OT environments, deterministic networks are characterized as providing a= guaranteed bandwidth with extremely low packet loss rates, bounded latency= , and low jitter. In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home audio/video = markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) standards eff= orts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and multimedia in tran= sportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in vehicle head units, r= ear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera modules, and engine cont= rol systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT requirements for determin= istic networks characteristics. This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the IEEE= 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) Task Gro= up (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The networks in co= nsideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and require secure dete= rministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer 2/Layer 3 network. The p= roperties of deterministic networks will have specific requirements for the= use of routed networks to support these applications. WG description -------------- The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the estab= lishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged and La= yer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 aspects in s= upport of deterministic applications. The group will collaborate with IEEE= 802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 operations, to define a common a= rchitecture to support IEEE802.1TSN applications. For the common architectu= re, a number of elements such as the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be = agnostic to the choice of network used for the connectivity.=20 The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses the= data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are requir= ed to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with the det= erministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, ultra-low jit= ter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that can be charact= erized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve the appropriate re= sources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse the resources when t= hey are no more required. The work will cover the characterization of flows= , the encapsulation of frames, the required forwarding behaviors, as well a= s the state that may need to be established in intermediate nodes; it will = not include end-to-end considerations such as transport protocols. Candidat= e Layer 3 data plane technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focu= ses on the data plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that w= ill be used. The data plane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE80= 1.1TSN. The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including C= CAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, requirem= ents may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and = CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the consistency of t= he overall architecture. The WG will liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE= . Work Items ---------- - Deliverables: =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0=20 =A0=A0* Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment envir= onment and deterministic network requirements which need to be supported. =A0 * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, = management, control, and security aspects. =A0 * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow identi= fication and packet forwarding over Layer 3.=20 =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flo= w reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be independ= ent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or GMPLS). =A0=A0 =A0=A0* Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will= cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. b= uffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. Su= ch information may also be used when advertising the deterministic network = elements to a control plane. The model should be independent from the proto= col(s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS or GMPLS e= xtensions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the working groups tha= t define the base models. What do you think? Pascal From nobody Tue May 19 02:23:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 140BA1A1BEA for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 02:23:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.491 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_71=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id blaY-qntHcEc for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm33-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm33-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.238.198]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41A071A1BE0 for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1432027431; bh=nLcB7EfbU4+dwk3Ns4ZERGN0YZi0+A84LGvEOQq3WV4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=XiUWhGyj14d+eQ8o8eRc1kPhfptE7ctY53+gpvaUlWd/DtyC85Mt02/Pvz/lp5OtPVSLqEt3quj1f6nXZMqiKDF5shj7xph4Qcpx3pJTpL7XwXPSaUDIJ9cJkg5lVmR39RsUk2xW5GHVe2z5AlOLzJVeLW1k6qSvdK2LODMpxOn8QcKZavROfq6nGQSupA0k5MmcIPXUsrx7bhIFTcZviwtNN8eVmnLOVWtltWJZ3SzXQfUsOe41cNVDMWoLEQQSS68qN4GYXc5WVrtEg1uXZN4RiXteK37o2e1AEQfZCfn5U/6YA0gEd1Roe4C2mKsodS4JNHOKAs7UC2TYXWDlFA== Received: from [98.139.170.181] by nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 09:23:51 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.222] by tm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 09:23:51 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1031.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2015 09:23:51 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 431782.29255.bm@omp1031.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: nokj17QVM1kfXGeRuiuQmc28eKa52Yx5uMoKPQ2DmstcrfFlEvrA9PdUkyKgXRE O84BfcSVffRliLEyzYlLWUSZKGZsRarLF5U9mjsrcWHsEH0aRQZfpPTimWP60jbWiRkTJdNVyYef ke9WIZFM5MFa7BMgcgYCOE9aNXcR74gl46Qqd95.TByB8uzw2dNcC7cpoFUOnHBK0PFK5kVW82vk XgoBc9L3dufARqrglFHyJtCx1xIcicgqogBxJFofHN6cV42iMt2AIXNihzNpRlBms7wZgXtxON.d 0CpJStBp6TJ4RHCyIyJj7Y_Dx5hwLrBYVysoyz53UzDwnReHSEEsuJM5NCfXGbBOQNGRnlUPO_Is W6U1tHxHGITNBcvDdi237IPf9.qLonkmzpRpNAMCZerAnu.Q0M8Sa8m3bleiQvu779vFwVBZ6H30 xpEF8EDJ21qE80uo8_j.KD5thcl9YzIlix1bMKDSogkaa415VJhZdb.Cv Received: by 76.13.26.65; Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:51 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Science Mart To: "detnet@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1082206619.2169705.1432027430622.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2169704_1207433343.1432027430621" Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] TTEthernet and TSN Simulation Environment X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Science Mart List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 09:23:53 -0000 ------=_Part_2169704_1207433343.1432027430621 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Friends,I am going to implement TTEthernet and Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) in a testbed.I have not found any preexisting simulator. What simulation environment do you suggest? Regards,Maria ------=_Part_2169704_1207433343.1432027430621 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Friends,
I am going to implement TTEthernet and Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) in a testbed.
I have not found any preexisting simulator. What simulation environment do you suggest?


Regards,
Maria

------=_Part_2169704_1207433343.1432027430621-- From nobody Thu May 21 07:25:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57ABB1A1A04 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:25:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.612 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.612 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eU3WOOZPiCEH for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D8F91A0419 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 07:25:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6899; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432218353; x=1433427953; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=nCPaTBuS/6YScgcRVPQDxRIDwbbcT13gpgA5s3hQass=; b=e8cNbSmgRXwW4Dm93CKuOtgchLPnzC7yJJj7MRiB1GyZAzn6f+7xjZbX mo3jJngiytoTut8c/L0TuGc1wA3SdRn4rEDC9IEt1Chie9u+wqfC1vncr SkW3CSjqvvQxMRNE4n38MqTtr5twWD/1luO80V9RNcQNp8qOnYy8LqkF7 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AOBABS6l1V/5FdJa1SCoMQVF4GwiNmCYFPCoUtSgKBQjgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCMBAQQBAQFrGwIBCBI0JwsXBQkCBAESiCwN0UEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFQSLOoQoBGCELQWGaYUZhniLB5cdI4IKHIFSb4EDQ4EBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,469,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="152073517" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 May 2015 14:25:52 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com [173.36.12.86]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4LEPpWu008045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 May 2015 14:25:52 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.7.100]) by xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com ([173.36.12.86]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:25:51 -0500 From: "Patrick Wetterwald (pwetterw)" To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHQk9IJoVAWUBgTTEW0QiRGC33T2g== Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:25:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 x-originating-ip: [10.49.80.52] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <68FB46456895494897908A52F4FCA37E@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:25:55 -0000 Pascal, I think it may be good to add a small sentence after the first paragraph on smart grid. This market will use this technology as well. Here is my proposal for the sentence: "In the same way, Industry related to the production, the transport and the distribution of the electricity (Smart Grid) shares the same requirements for deterministic networking.=B2 Last question is the transportation market (planes, spacecrafts, trains) included in the second paragraph (AVB) or do we want to be more specific? Thanks, Patrick =20 On 04/05/15 17:06, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: >Dear all: > >I incorporated Dan's comment about security (thanks Dan!) : > >Also I talked with our A-Ds and understand that the problem statement is >our first deliverable and it should be out quickly. > >We are still welcome to make that more than one doc, e.g. turn the >requirement drafts in RFCs as initially intended, but that should not >delay the completion of that task. > >An alternate is for requirement drafts is to turn them in applicability >statements. There is not a huge gap between the two, and it would >probably be more useful if we consider the overall production of our >group. > >Charter is now: > >" >detnet: "deterministic networking" > >Background on deterministic networking >-------------------------------------- > >Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are >typically used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as >well as movement detection systems for use in process control (i.e., >process manufacturing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete >manufacturing). Due to its different goals, OT has evolved in parallel >but in a manner that is radically different from Information >Technology/Information and Communications Technology (IT/ICT), focusing >on highly secure, reliable and deterministic networks, with limited >scalability over a bounded area. Deterministic networks are characterized >as having a bounded latency, very low loss, and a very narrow jitter. > >In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home >audio/video markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging (AVB) >standards efforts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity and >multimedia in transportation, AVB is being evaluated for application in >vehicle head units, rear seat entertainment modules, amplifiers, camera >modules, and engine control systems. Automotive AVB networks share the OT >requirements for extremely low packet loss rates, guaranteed finite >latency, and low jitter. > >This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the >IEEE 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) >Task Group (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The >networks in consideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and >require secure deterministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer >2/Layer 3 network. The properties of deterministic networks will have >specific requirements for the use of routed networks to support these >applications. > >WG description >-------------- > >The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the >establishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 Bridged >and Layer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on Layer 3 >aspects in support of deterministic applications. The group will >collaborate with IEEE802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 >operations, to define a common architecture to support IEEE802.1TSN >applications. For the common architecture, a number of elements such as >the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be agnostic to the choice of >network used for the connectivity. > >The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses >the data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are >required to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, with >the deterministic properties of controlled latency, low packet loss, >ultra-low jitter, and high reliability. The work will apply to flows that >can be characterized in a manner that allows the network to 1) reserve >the appropriate resources for the flows in advance, and 2) release/reuse >the resources when they are no more required. The work will cover the >characterization of flows, the encapsulation of frames, the required >forwarding behaviors, as well as the state that may need to be >established in intermediate nodes; it will not include end-to-end >considerations such as transport protocols. Candidate Layer 3 data plane >technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focuses on the data >plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that will be used. >The data plane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE801.1TSN. > >The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, including >CCAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work progresses, >requirements may be provided to the responsible Working Group, e.g. PCE, >TEAS, and CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point to maintain the >consistency of the overall architecture. The WG will liaise with >appropriate groups in IEEE. > > >Work Items =20 >---------- > >- Deliverables: > =20 > =20 > * Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment >environment and deterministic network requirements which need to be >supported. > > * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, OAM, >management, control, and security aspects. > > * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow >identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. > =20 > * Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a flow >reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be >independent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP or >GMPLS). > =20 > * Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will >cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. >buffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting. >Such information may also be used when advertising the deterministic >network elements to a control plane. The model should be independent from >the protocol(s) that may be used to advertise this information (e.g. ISIS >or GMPLS extensions).This deliverable will be coordinated with the >working groups that define the base models. >" > > >Cheers, > >Pascal and Jouni > >_______________________________________________ >detnet mailing list >detnet@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > >_______________________________________________ >detnet mailing list >detnet@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Thu May 21 08:42:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2A01B29B1 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihcAtcRd0d1T for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33F5B1B29B5 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:42:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7966; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432222924; x=1433432524; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=W0g8+sdFgsCr2xgJhjP/37OHuVwDrXSIMvQlmrwIHMk=; b=Ddic3WASuD89Kf51ZWT6sNago+P16C72kPwZECIaE4/dzf+/1ZNZdD9t 68QwlrPpOenTjEOKQIa735uoVo2oyut4udn9Q5WqVa1VpGFVClFEX2JXh ymVvxsM5T83TYXIMBb3T9OZ4UnzV5IMcErSrh7jxnK2ozdq1tsVQ6Y4Gp g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0B8BABu/F1V/49dJa1SCoMQVF4GwiJmCYFQCoUtSgKBRDgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCIBAQEEAQEBaxcEAgEIEQEDAQEBCiQnCxcFAQgCBAESCIgkDdFlAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSLOoQoBCg4BoMRgRYFhmWFFIZ3iwGBJoNrkgIjggocgVJvgQNDgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,469,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="152119763" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 May 2015 15:42:03 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4LFg3bk007733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 May 2015 15:42:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.6]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 21 May 2015 10:42:02 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Patrick Wetterwald (pwetterw)" , "Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHQk9IJoVAWUBgTTEW0QiRGC33T2p2GkJPg Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:42:02 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:41:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.22.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:42:19 -0000 Hello Patrick, Could you please be more specific about " shares the same requirements for = deterministic networking." ?=20 I's like to see what is at stake if deterministic guarantees are not ensure= d, e.g. damage on property, black out, things like that? There are at least 3 networks in a planes, and at least 2 of them need dete= rministic. But then we cannot write a book in the charter so maybe we can keep it at t= hat : ) What do others think? Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Wetterwald (pwetterw) > Sent: jeudi 21 mai 2015 16:26 > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research); > detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter >=20 > Pascal, >=20 > I think it may be good to add a small sentence after the first paragraph = on smart > grid. This market will use this technology as well. Here is my proposal f= or the > sentence: >=20 > "In the same way, Industry related to the production, the transport and t= he > distribution of the electricity (Smart Grid) shares the same requirements= for > deterministic networking.=B2 >=20 >=20 > Last question is the transportation market (planes, spacecrafts, trains) = included > in the second paragraph (AVB) or do we want to be more specific? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Patrick >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 04/05/15 17:06, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote= : >=20 > >Dear all: > > > >I incorporated Dan's comment about security (thanks Dan!) : > > > >Also I talked with our A-Ds and understand that the problem statement > >is our first deliverable and it should be out quickly. > > > >We are still welcome to make that more than one doc, e.g. turn the > >requirement drafts in RFCs as initially intended, but that should not > >delay the completion of that task. > > > >An alternate is for requirement drafts is to turn them in applicability > >statements. There is not a huge gap between the two, and it would > >probably be more useful if we consider the overall production of our > >group. > > > >Charter is now: > > > >" > >detnet: "deterministic networking" > > > >Background on deterministic networking > >-------------------------------------- > > > >Operational Technology (OT) refers to industrial networks that are > >typically used for monitoring systems and supporting control loops, as > >well as movement detection systems for use in process control (i.e., > >process manufacturing) and factory automation (i.e., discrete > >manufacturing). Due to its different goals, OT has evolved in parallel > >but in a manner that is radically different from Information > >Technology/Information and Communications Technology (IT/ICT), focusing > >on highly secure, reliable and deterministic networks, with limited > >scalability over a bounded area. Deterministic networks are > >characterized as having a bounded latency, very low loss, and a very nar= row > jitter. > > > >In parallel, the need for determinism in professional and home > >audio/video markets drove the formation of the Audio/Video Bridging > >(AVB) standards efforts in IEEE 802.1. With the demand for connectivity > >and multimedia in transportation, AVB is being evaluated for > >application in vehicle head units, rear seat entertainment modules, > >amplifiers, camera modules, and engine control systems. Automotive AVB > >networks share the OT requirements for extremely low packet loss rates, > >guaranteed finite latency, and low jitter. > > > >This wider application scope for deterministic networks has led to the > >IEEE 802.1 AVB Task Group becoming the Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN) > >Task Group (TG), covering industrial and vehicular applications. The > >networks in consideration are extending beyond the LAN boundaries and > >require secure deterministic forwarding and connectivity over a Layer > >2/Layer 3 network. The properties of deterministic networks will have > >specific requirements for the use of routed networks to support these > >applications. > > > >WG description > >-------------- > > > >The deterministic networking Working Group (detnet) will focus on the > >establishment and maintenance of deterministic paths over Layer-2 > >Bridged and Layer-3 routed segments. The Working Group will focus on > >Layer 3 aspects in support of deterministic applications. The group > >will collaborate with IEEE802.1TSN, which is responsible for Layer-2 > >operations, to define a common architecture to support IEEE802.1TSN > >applications. For the common architecture, a number of elements such as > >the IEEE802.1TSN host operation should be agnostic to the choice of > >network used for the connectivity. > > > >The Working Group will specify an overall architecture that encompasses > >the data plane, OAM, management, control, and security aspects that are > >required to enable a multi-hop path, and forwarding along that path, > >with the deterministic properties of controlled latency, low packet > >loss, ultra-low jitter, and high reliability. The work will apply to > >flows that can be characterized in a manner that allows the network to > >1) reserve the appropriate resources for the flows in advance, and 2) > >release/reuse the resources when they are no more required. The work > >will cover the characterization of flows, the encapsulation of frames, > >the required forwarding behaviors, as well as the state that may need > >to be established in intermediate nodes; it will not include end-to-end > >considerations such as transport protocols. Candidate Layer 3 data > >plane technologies include: IPv4, IPv6, MPLS. This work focuses on the > >data plane and does not depend on the path setup protocol that will be u= sed. > >The data plane will be compatible with the work done in IEEE801.1TSN. > > > >The WG will coordinate with other relevant IETF Working Groups, > >including CCAMP, PCE, PALS, TEAS, TSVWG, and 6TisSCH. As the work > >progresses, requirements may be provided to the responsible Working > >Group, e.g. PCE, TEAS, and CCAMP, with detnet acting as a focal point > >to maintain the consistency of the overall architecture. The WG will > >liaise with appropriate groups in IEEE. > > > > > >Work Items > >---------- > > > >- Deliverables: > > > > > > * Problem statement: This document will identify the deployment > >environment and deterministic network requirements which need to be > >supported. > > > > * Overall architecture: This document encompasses the data plane, > >OAM, management, control, and security aspects. > > > > * Data plane specification: Document a data plane method of flow > >identification and packet forwarding over Layer 3. > > > > * Data flow information model: This document will be for use by a > >flow reservation protocol or by YANG data models. The model should be > >independent from the protocol(s) used to control the flows (e.g. PCEP > >or GMPLS). > > > > * Identification of additional YANG augmentations: This document will > >cover device and link capabilities (feature support) and resources (e.g. > >buffers, bandwidth) for use in device configuration and status reporting= . > >Such information may also be used when advertising the deterministic > >network elements to a control plane. The model should be independent > >from the protocol(s) that may be used to advertise this information > >(e.g. ISIS or GMPLS extensions).This deliverable will be coordinated > >with the working groups that define the base models. > >" > > > > > >Cheers, > > > >Pascal and Jouni > > > >_______________________________________________ > >detnet mailing list > >detnet@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > >_______________________________________________ > >detnet mailing list > >detnet@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Thu May 21 08:48:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6061ACEDE for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:48:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N4DqR-iPYyQ2 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D1911A875E for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11816; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432223297; x=1433432897; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=CtA0L6VDzc9FEg6o1DkUJe92SjDQmcmTL6YcEeYiAHQ=; b=R75V1TCCiU52f0cb70pBHBvgQFZnO6RBQqwbHLT6D06AG4APLPIP3Z5u YnhQUOTikM7G6whffR5ZVbE+M2XFjP5Hcvu50HH0eeyDm167Pm8uzXxGf WlUM0lmmiluxxAL2TJZ7AXR7TX0NJc1THzGusxNFu8K7ZvnZW+z/iNQDr g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AABAAc/V1V/4sNJK1SCoMQVF4Ggxm/cAmBTwqFLUoCHIEpOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIgEBAQQBAQExOhcGAQgRAQMBAQUoBCULFwUBCAIEARKILA2QUZ0IBqQKAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSBG4ofhCgECjQiBoJcgUsFhmmMEYsHgSiDa5IKI4IKHIFSb4EDQ4EBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,469,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="152196427" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 May 2015 15:48:16 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4LFmGsS022995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 May 2015 15:48:16 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x12.cisco.com ([169.254.7.125]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 21 May 2015 10:48:16 -0500 From: "Maik Seewald (maseewal)" To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "Patrick Wetterwald (pwetterw)" , "Sexton, Daniel W (GE Global Research)" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter Thread-Index: AQHQk9IJoVAWUBgTTEW0QiRGC33T2p2GkJPggAB4MYA= Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:48:15 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.85.164.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: new proposed charter X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:48:22 -0000 UGFzY2FsLCBsZXQgbWUgY2hpbWUgaW4gaGVyZToNClRoZSBrZXkgdXNlIGNhc2VzIGluIHBvd2Vy IGF1dG9tYXRpb24gd2hlcmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc20gaXMgbmVlZGVkIGlzDQpwcm90ZWN0aW9uLiBQ cm90ZWN0aW9uIGlzIGEgY29tcGxldGUgZG9tYWluIHdpdGhpbiBwb3dlciBhdXRvbWF0aW9uLg0K VGhlc2UgZnVuY3Rpb25zIGFyZSBrZXkgdG8gcHJvdGVjdCBwcmltYXJ5IGVxdWlwbWVudCAodHJh bnNmb3JtZXIsIGxpbmVzKQ0KYW5kIHBlb3BsZSBmcm9tIChwaHlzaWNhbCkgZGFtYWdlLg0KQ2hl ZXJzLiBNaWtlDQoNCk9uIDIxLjA1LjE1IDE3OjQyLCAiUGFzY2FsIFRodWJlcnQgKHB0aHViZXJ0 KSIgPHB0aHViZXJ0QGNpc2NvLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5IZWxsbyBQYXRyaWNrLA0KPg0KPkNv dWxkIHlvdSBwbGVhc2UgYmUgbW9yZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBhYm91dCAiIHNoYXJlcyB0aGUgc2FtZSBy ZXF1aXJlbWVudHMNCj5mb3IgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBuZXR3b3JraW5nLiIgPw0KPkkncyBsaWtl IHRvIHNlZSB3aGF0IGlzIGF0IHN0YWtlIGlmIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgZ3VhcmFudGVlcyBhcmUg bm90DQo+ZW5zdXJlZCwgZS5nLiBkYW1hZ2Ugb24gcHJvcGVydHksIGJsYWNrIG91dCwgdGhpbmdz IGxpa2UgdGhhdD8NCj4NCj5UaGVyZSBhcmUgYXQgbGVhc3QgMyBuZXR3b3JrcyBpbiBhIHBsYW5l cywgYW5kIGF0IGxlYXN0IDIgb2YgdGhlbSBuZWVkDQo+ZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYy4NCj5CdXQgdGhl biB3ZSBjYW5ub3Qgd3JpdGUgYSBib29rIGluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyIHNvIG1heWJlIHdlIGNhbiBr ZWVwIGl0IGF0DQo+dGhhdCA6ICkNCj4NCj5XaGF0IGRvIG90aGVycyB0aGluaz8NCj4NCj5QYXNj YWwNCj4NCj4+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+PiBGcm9tOiBQYXRyaWNrIFdl dHRlcndhbGQgKHB3ZXR0ZXJ3KQ0KPj4gU2VudDogamV1ZGkgMjEgbWFpIDIwMTUgMTY6MjYNCj4+ IFRvOiBQYXNjYWwgVGh1YmVydCAocHRodWJlcnQpOyBTZXh0b24sIERhbmllbCBXIChHRSBHbG9i YWwgUmVzZWFyY2gpOw0KPj4gZGV0bmV0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0RldG5l dF0gRlc6IG5ldyBwcm9wb3NlZCBjaGFydGVyDQo+PiANCj4+IFBhc2NhbCwNCj4+IA0KPj4gSSB0 aGluayBpdCBtYXkgYmUgZ29vZCB0byBhZGQgYSBzbWFsbCBzZW50ZW5jZSBhZnRlciB0aGUgZmly c3QNCj4+cGFyYWdyYXBoIG9uIHNtYXJ0DQo+PiBncmlkLiBUaGlzIG1hcmtldCB3aWxsIHVzZSB0 aGlzIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgYXMgd2VsbC4gSGVyZSBpcyBteSBwcm9wb3NhbA0KPj5mb3IgdGhlDQo+ PiBzZW50ZW5jZToNCj4+IA0KPj4gIkluIHRoZSBzYW1lIHdheSwgSW5kdXN0cnkgcmVsYXRlZCB0 byB0aGUgcHJvZHVjdGlvbiwgdGhlIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBhbmQNCj4+dGhlDQo+PiBkaXN0cmlidXRp b24gb2YgdGhlIGVsZWN0cmljaXR5IChTbWFydCBHcmlkKSBzaGFyZXMgdGhlIHNhbWUNCj4+cmVx dWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvcg0KPj4gZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBuZXR3b3JraW5nLqn3DQo+PiANCj4+IA0K Pj4gTGFzdCBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyB0aGUgdHJhbnNwb3J0YXRpb24gbWFya2V0IChwbGFuZXMsIHNw YWNlY3JhZnRzLA0KPj50cmFpbnMpIGluY2x1ZGVkDQo+PiBpbiB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHBhcmFncmFw aCAoQVZCKSBvciBkbyB3ZSB3YW50IHRvIGJlIG1vcmUgc3BlY2lmaWM/DQo+PiANCj4+IFRoYW5r cywNCj4+IA0KPj4gUGF0cmljaw0KPj4gDQo+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gT24gMDQvMDUvMTUgMTc6MDYs ICJQYXNjYWwgVGh1YmVydCAocHRodWJlcnQpIiA8cHRodWJlcnRAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KPj53cm90 ZToNCj4+IA0KPj4gPkRlYXIgYWxsOg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPkkgaW5jb3Jwb3JhdGVkIERhbidzIGNv bW1lbnQgYWJvdXQgc2VjdXJpdHkgKHRoYW5rcyBEYW4hKSA6DQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+QWxzbyBJIHRh bGtlZCB3aXRoIG91ciBBLURzIGFuZCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoYXQgdGhlIHByb2JsZW0gc3RhdGVt ZW50DQo+PiA+aXMgb3VyIGZpcnN0IGRlbGl2ZXJhYmxlIGFuZCBpdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgb3V0IHF1 aWNrbHkuDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+V2UgYXJlIHN0aWxsIHdlbGNvbWUgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGF0IG1vcmUg dGhhbiBvbmUgZG9jLCBlLmcuIHR1cm4gdGhlDQo+PiA+cmVxdWlyZW1lbnQgZHJhZnRzIGluIFJG Q3MgYXMgaW5pdGlhbGx5IGludGVuZGVkLCBidXQgdGhhdCBzaG91bGQgbm90DQo+PiA+ZGVsYXkg dGhlIGNvbXBsZXRpb24gb2YgdGhhdCB0YXNrLg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPkFuIGFsdGVybmF0ZSBpcyBm b3IgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQgZHJhZnRzIGlzIHRvIHR1cm4gdGhlbSBpbiBhcHBsaWNhYmlsaXR5DQo+ PiA+c3RhdGVtZW50cy4gVGhlcmUgaXMgbm90IGEgaHVnZSBnYXAgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgdHdvLCBh bmQgaXQgd291bGQNCj4+ID5wcm9iYWJseSBiZSBtb3JlIHVzZWZ1bCBpZiB3ZSBjb25zaWRlciB0 aGUgb3ZlcmFsbCBwcm9kdWN0aW9uIG9mIG91cg0KPj4gPmdyb3VwLg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPkNoYXJ0 ZXIgaXMgbm93Og0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPiINCj4+ID5kZXRuZXQ6ICJkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIG5ldHdv cmtpbmciDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+QmFja2dyb3VuZCBvbiBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIG5ldHdvcmtpbmcN Cj4+ID4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPk9w ZXJhdGlvbmFsIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgKE9UKSByZWZlcnMgdG8gaW5kdXN0cmlhbCBuZXR3b3JrcyB0 aGF0IGFyZQ0KPj4gPnR5cGljYWxseSB1c2VkIGZvciBtb25pdG9yaW5nIHN5c3RlbXMgYW5kIHN1 cHBvcnRpbmcgY29udHJvbCBsb29wcywgYXMNCj4+ID53ZWxsIGFzIG1vdmVtZW50IGRldGVjdGlv biBzeXN0ZW1zIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gcHJvY2VzcyBjb250cm9sIChpLmUuLA0KPj4gPnByb2Nlc3Mg bWFudWZhY3R1cmluZykgYW5kIGZhY3RvcnkgYXV0b21hdGlvbiAoaS5lLiwgZGlzY3JldGUNCj4+ ID5tYW51ZmFjdHVyaW5nKS4gRHVlIHRvIGl0cyBkaWZmZXJlbnQgZ29hbHMsIE9UIGhhcyBldm9s dmVkIGluIHBhcmFsbGVsDQo+PiA+YnV0IGluIGEgbWFubmVyIHRoYXQgaXMgcmFkaWNhbGx5IGRp ZmZlcmVudCBmcm9tIEluZm9ybWF0aW9uDQo+PiA+VGVjaG5vbG9neS9JbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhbmQg Q29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMgVGVjaG5vbG9neSAoSVQvSUNUKSwgZm9jdXNpbmcNCj4+ID5vbiBoaWdo bHkgc2VjdXJlLCByZWxpYWJsZSBhbmQgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBuZXR3b3Jrcywgd2l0aCBsaW1p dGVkDQo+PiA+c2NhbGFiaWxpdHkgb3ZlciBhIGJvdW5kZWQgYXJlYS4gRGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBu ZXR3b3JrcyBhcmUNCj4+ID5jaGFyYWN0ZXJpemVkIGFzIGhhdmluZyBhIGJvdW5kZWQgbGF0ZW5j eSwgdmVyeSBsb3cgbG9zcywgYW5kIGEgdmVyeQ0KPj5uYXJyb3cNCj4+IGppdHRlci4NCj4+ID4N Cj4+ID5JbiBwYXJhbGxlbCwgdGhlIG5lZWQgZm9yIGRldGVybWluaXNtIGluIHByb2Zlc3Npb25h bCBhbmQgaG9tZQ0KPj4gPmF1ZGlvL3ZpZGVvIG1hcmtldHMgZHJvdmUgdGhlIGZvcm1hdGlvbiBv ZiB0aGUgQXVkaW8vVmlkZW8gQnJpZGdpbmcNCj4+ID4oQVZCKSBzdGFuZGFyZHMgZWZmb3J0cyBp biBJRUVFIDgwMi4xLiBXaXRoIHRoZSBkZW1hbmQgZm9yIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eQ0KPj4gPmFuZCBt dWx0aW1lZGlhIGluIHRyYW5zcG9ydGF0aW9uLCBBVkIgaXMgYmVpbmcgZXZhbHVhdGVkIGZvcg0K Pj4gPmFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGluIHZlaGljbGUgaGVhZCB1bml0cywgcmVhciBzZWF0IGVudGVydGFp bm1lbnQgbW9kdWxlcywNCj4+ID5hbXBsaWZpZXJzLCBjYW1lcmEgbW9kdWxlcywgYW5kIGVuZ2lu ZSBjb250cm9sIHN5c3RlbXMuIEF1dG9tb3RpdmUgQVZCDQo+PiA+bmV0d29ya3Mgc2hhcmUgdGhl IE9UIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgZXh0cmVtZWx5IGxvdyBwYWNrZXQgbG9zcyByYXRlcywNCj4+ ID5ndWFyYW50ZWVkIGZpbml0ZSBsYXRlbmN5LCBhbmQgbG93IGppdHRlci4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID5U aGlzIHdpZGVyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHNjb3BlIGZvciBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIG5ldHdvcmtzIGhh cyBsZWQgdG8gdGhlDQo+PiA+SUVFRSA4MDIuMSBBVkIgVGFzayBHcm91cCBiZWNvbWluZyB0aGUg VGltZS1TZW5zaXRpdmUgTmV0d29ya2luZyAoVFNOKQ0KPj4gPlRhc2sgR3JvdXAgKFRHKSwgY292 ZXJpbmcgaW5kdXN0cmlhbCBhbmQgdmVoaWN1bGFyIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4gVGhlDQo+PiA+bmV0 d29ya3MgaW4gY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbiBhcmUgZXh0ZW5kaW5nIGJleW9uZCB0aGUgTEFOIGJvdW5k YXJpZXMgYW5kDQo+PiA+cmVxdWlyZSBzZWN1cmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBmb3J3YXJkaW5nIGFu ZCBjb25uZWN0aXZpdHkgb3ZlciBhIExheWVyDQo+PiA+Mi9MYXllciAzIG5ldHdvcmsuIFRoZSBw cm9wZXJ0aWVzIG9mIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgbmV0d29ya3Mgd2lsbCBoYXZlDQo+PiA+c3BlY2lm aWMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mICByb3V0ZWQgbmV0d29ya3MgdG8gc3VwcG9y dCB0aGVzZQ0KPj4gPmFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucy4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID5XRyBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbg0KPj4g Pi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+VGhlIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgbmV0d29ya2luZyBX b3JraW5nIEdyb3VwIChkZXRuZXQpIHdpbGwgZm9jdXMgb24gdGhlDQo+PiA+ZXN0YWJsaXNobWVu dCBhbmQgbWFpbnRlbmFuY2Ugb2YgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYyBwYXRocyBvdmVyIExheWVyLTINCj4+ ID5CcmlkZ2VkIGFuZCBMYXllci0zIHJvdXRlZCBzZWdtZW50cy4gVGhlIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAg d2lsbCBmb2N1cyBvbg0KPj4gPkxheWVyIDMgYXNwZWN0cyBpbiBzdXBwb3J0IG9mIGRldGVybWlu aXN0aWMgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zLiAgVGhlIGdyb3VwDQo+PiA+d2lsbCBjb2xsYWJvcmF0ZSB3aXRo IElFRUU4MDIuMVRTTiwgd2hpY2ggaXMgcmVzcG9uc2libGUgZm9yIExheWVyLTINCj4+ID5vcGVy YXRpb25zLCB0byBkZWZpbmUgYSBjb21tb24gYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgSUVFRTgw Mi4xVFNODQo+PiA+YXBwbGljYXRpb25zLiBGb3IgdGhlIGNvbW1vbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUsIGEg bnVtYmVyIG9mIGVsZW1lbnRzIHN1Y2ggYXMNCj4+ID50aGUgSUVFRTgwMi4xVFNOIGhvc3Qgb3Bl cmF0aW9uIHNob3VsZCBiZSBhZ25vc3RpYyB0byB0aGUgY2hvaWNlIG9mDQo+PiA+bmV0d29yayB1 c2VkIGZvciB0aGUgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5Lg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPlRoZSBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwIHdp bGwgc3BlY2lmeSBhbiBvdmVyYWxsIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSB0aGF0IGVuY29tcGFzc2VzDQo+PiA+ dGhlIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUsIE9BTSwgbWFuYWdlbWVudCwgY29udHJvbCwgYW5kIHNlY3VyaXR5IGFz cGVjdHMgdGhhdCBhcmUNCj4+ID5yZXF1aXJlZCB0byBlbmFibGUgYSBtdWx0aS1ob3AgcGF0aCwg YW5kIGZvcndhcmRpbmcgYWxvbmcgdGhhdCBwYXRoLA0KPj4gPndpdGggdGhlIGRldGVybWluaXN0 aWMgcHJvcGVydGllcyBvZiBjb250cm9sbGVkIGxhdGVuY3ksIGxvdyBwYWNrZXQNCj4+ID5sb3Nz LCB1bHRyYS1sb3cgaml0dGVyLCBhbmQgaGlnaCByZWxpYWJpbGl0eS4gVGhlIHdvcmsgd2lsbCBh cHBseSB0bw0KPj4gPmZsb3dzIHRoYXQgY2FuIGJlIGNoYXJhY3Rlcml6ZWQgaW4gYSBtYW5uZXIg dGhhdCBhbGxvd3MgdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsgdG8NCj4+ID4xKSByZXNlcnZlIHRoZSBhcHByb3ByaWF0 ZSByZXNvdXJjZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBmbG93cyBpbiBhZHZhbmNlLCBhbmQgMikNCj4+ID5yZWxlYXNl L3JldXNlIHRoZSByZXNvdXJjZXMgd2hlbiB0aGV5IGFyZSBubyBtb3JlIHJlcXVpcmVkLiBUaGUg d29yaw0KPj4gPndpbGwgY292ZXIgdGhlIGNoYXJhY3Rlcml6YXRpb24gb2YgZmxvd3MsIHRoZSBl bmNhcHN1bGF0aW9uIG9mIGZyYW1lcywNCj4+ID50aGUgcmVxdWlyZWQgZm9yd2FyZGluZyBiZWhh dmlvcnMsIGFzIHdlbGwgYXMgdGhlIHN0YXRlIHRoYXQgbWF5IG5lZWQNCj4+ID50byBiZSBlc3Rh Ymxpc2hlZCBpbiBpbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgbm9kZXM7IGl0IHdpbGwgbm90IGluY2x1ZGUgZW5kLXRv LWVuZA0KPj4gPmNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIHN1Y2ggYXMgdHJhbnNwb3J0IHByb3RvY29scy4gQ2Fu ZGlkYXRlIExheWVyIDMgZGF0YQ0KPj4gPnBsYW5lIHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBpbmNsdWRlOiBJUHY0 LCBJUHY2LCBNUExTLiBUaGlzIHdvcmsgZm9jdXNlcyBvbiB0aGUNCj4+ID5kYXRhIHBsYW5lIGFu ZCBkb2VzIG5vdCBkZXBlbmQgb24gdGhlIHBhdGggc2V0dXAgcHJvdG9jb2wgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGJl DQo+PnVzZWQuDQo+PiA+VGhlIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUgd2lsbCBiZSBjb21wYXRpYmxlIHdpdGggdGhl IHdvcmsgZG9uZSBpbiBJRUVFODAxLjFUU04uDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+VGhlIFdHIHdpbGwgY29vcmRp bmF0ZSB3aXRoIG90aGVyIHJlbGV2YW50IElFVEYgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cHMsDQo+PiA+aW5jbHVk aW5nIENDQU1QLCBQQ0UsIFBBTFMsIFRFQVMsIFRTVldHLCBhbmQgNlRpc1NDSC4gQXMgdGhlIHdv cmsNCj4+ID5wcm9ncmVzc2VzLCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgbWF5IGJlIHByb3ZpZGVkIHRvIHRoZSBy ZXNwb25zaWJsZSBXb3JraW5nDQo+PiA+R3JvdXAsIGUuZy4gUENFLCBURUFTLCBhbmQgQ0NBTVAs IHdpdGggZGV0bmV0IGFjdGluZyBhcyBhIGZvY2FsIHBvaW50DQo+PiA+dG8gbWFpbnRhaW4gdGhl IGNvbnNpc3RlbmN5IG9mIHRoZSBvdmVyYWxsIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZS4gVGhlIFdHIHdpbGwNCj4+ ID5saWFpc2Ugd2l0aCBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBncm91cHMgaW4gSUVFRS4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ ID5Xb3JrIEl0ZW1zDQo+PiA+LS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPi0gRGVsaXZlcmFibGVzOg0K Pj4gPg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPiAgKiBQcm9ibGVtIHN0YXRlbWVudDogVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCB3aWxs IGlkZW50aWZ5IHRoZSBkZXBsb3ltZW50DQo+PiA+ZW52aXJvbm1lbnQgYW5kIGRldGVybWluaXN0 aWMgbmV0d29yayByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgd2hpY2ggbmVlZCB0byBiZQ0KPj4gPnN1cHBvcnRlZC4N Cj4+ID4NCj4+ID4gICogT3ZlcmFsbCBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmU6IFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZW5jb21w YXNzZXMgdGhlIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUsDQo+PiA+T0FNLCBtYW5hZ2VtZW50LCBjb250cm9sLCBhbmQg c2VjdXJpdHkgYXNwZWN0cy4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4gICogRGF0YSBwbGFuZSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9u OiBEb2N1bWVudCBhIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUgbWV0aG9kIG9mIGZsb3cNCj4+ID5pZGVudGlmaWNhdGlv biBhbmQgcGFja2V0IGZvcndhcmRpbmcgb3ZlciBMYXllciAzLg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPiAgKiBEYXRh IGZsb3cgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gbW9kZWw6IFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgd2lsbCBiZSBmb3IgdXNlIGJ5 IGENCj4+ID5mbG93IHJlc2VydmF0aW9uIHByb3RvY29sIG9yIGJ5IFlBTkcgZGF0YSBtb2RlbHMu IFRoZSBtb2RlbCBzaG91bGQgYmUNCj4+ID5pbmRlcGVuZGVudCBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcm90b2NvbChz KSB1c2VkIHRvIGNvbnRyb2wgdGhlIGZsb3dzIChlLmcuIFBDRVANCj4+ID5vciBHTVBMUykuDQo+ PiA+DQo+PiA+ICAqIElkZW50aWZpY2F0aW9uIG9mIGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgWUFORyBhdWdtZW50YXRp b25zOiBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwNCj4+ID5jb3ZlciBkZXZpY2UgYW5kIGxpbmsgY2FwYWJp bGl0aWVzIChmZWF0dXJlIHN1cHBvcnQpIGFuZCByZXNvdXJjZXMNCj4+KGUuZy4NCj4+ID5idWZm ZXJzLCBiYW5kd2lkdGgpIGZvciB1c2UgaW4gZGV2aWNlIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gYW5kIHN0YXR1 cw0KPj5yZXBvcnRpbmcuDQo+PiA+U3VjaCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBtYXkgYWxzbyBiZSB1c2VkIHdo ZW4gYWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgdGhlIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMNCj4+ID5uZXR3b3JrIGVsZW1lbnRzIHRv IGEgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZS4gVGhlIG1vZGVsIHNob3VsZCBiZSBpbmRlcGVuZGVudA0KPj4gPmZy b20gdGhlIHByb3RvY29sKHMpIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlIHRoaXMgaW5m b3JtYXRpb24NCj4+ID4oZS5nLiBJU0lTIG9yIEdNUExTIGV4dGVuc2lvbnMpLlRoaXMgZGVsaXZl cmFibGUgd2lsbCBiZSBjb29yZGluYXRlZA0KPj4gPndpdGggdGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXBzIHRo YXQgZGVmaW5lIHRoZSBiYXNlIG1vZGVscy4NCj4+ID4iDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+Q2hlZXJz LA0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPlBhc2NhbCBhbmQgSm91bmkNCj4+ID4NCj4+ID5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gPmRldG5ldCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4+ID5kZXRuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+ID5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2RldG5ldA0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+PiA+ZGV0bmV0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gPmRldG5ldEBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KPj4gPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vZGV0bmV0DQo+ DQo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj5kZXRu ZXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ZGV0bmV0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kZXRuZXQNCg0K From nobody Thu May 28 12:30:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F66B1A877F for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NRnBP8uIzjVI for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.63]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB2E1A70FE for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,513,1427785200"; d="scan'208";a="66067552" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw2-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 28 May 2015 12:41:29 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.16) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:30:14 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 28 May 2015 12:30:14 -0700 From: Jouni Korhonen To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-korhonen-detnet-telreq-00.txt Thread-Index: AdCZfIh7U15tnwXcStGt4weriy5sSg== Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:30:13 +0000 Message-ID: <72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D052C3489@SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-korhonen-detnet-telreq-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:30:16 -0000 FYI.. a slightly different view to DetNet. Title : Deterministic networking for radio access network= s Author : Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-korhonen-detnet-telreq-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2015-05-28 Abstract: This document describes requirements for deterministic networking in cellular radio access and transport networks context. The requirements include time synchronization, clock distribution and ways of establishing time-sensitive streams for both Layer-2 and Layer-3 user plane traffic using IETF protocol solutions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-korhonen-detnet-telreq/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-korhonen-detnet-telreq-00