From nobody Mon Jul 6 01:29:39 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114B91A90A2 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 01:29:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pmBx2bh265xI for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 01:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E481E1A90A0 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 01:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYJ59140; Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:29:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEML427-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.182) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 09:29:32 +0100 Received: from SZXEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.33]) by szxeml427-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.182]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 6 Jul 2015 16:28:58 +0800 From: zhayiyong To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DetNet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zha-detnet-use-case-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQt8XNOSv0gXJqrEylhJiX7lFbiw== Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 08:28:57 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.15.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] [DetNet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zha-detnet-use-case-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2015 08:29:38 -0000 SGVsbG8gRGV0TmV0LA0KDQpIZXJlIGlzIGFuIEktRCBmb2N1c2VkIG9uIHNvbWUgaGlnaCBsZXZl bCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgYW5kIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9ucyBvZiB1c2UgY2FzZXMgb24gZGV0ZXJtaW5p c3RpYyBuZXR3b3JraW5nLiANCkluIG15IG9waW5pb24sIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgaXMgdGhlIHBy b21pc2Ugb2YgbG93IGxhdGVuY3ksIG9ubHkgZ3VhcmFudGVlZCB3b3JzdCBjYXNlIGRlbGF5IG1h a2Ugc2Vuc2UgdG8gdGhlIGNyaXRpY2FsIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50IG9uIGxhdGVuY3kgYW5kIHJlbGlh YmlsaXR5LiBXZSBhcmUgb24gdGhlIHNhbWUgdHJhY2sgYW5kIGFsc28gd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBj b250cmlidXRlIG9uIHRoaXMgdG9waWMuIFN0YXJ0IHdpdGggc29tZSBoaWdoIGxldmVsIHVzZSBj YXNlcyBhcyB3aGljaCBtYXkgcmVxdWlyZSBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIGxvdyBsYXRlbmN5IG5ldHdv cmtpbmcsIHBsZWFzZSBoYXZlIGEgbG9vayBpZiBpdCBtYWtlcyBhbnkgc2Vuc2UuIENvbW1lbnRz IGFuZCBjby1hdXRob3JzIGFyZSB3ZWxjb21lZC4gVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KWWl5 b25nIFpoYQ0KDQotLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7ti0tLS0tDQrlj5Hku7bkuro6IGludGVybmV0LWRy YWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gDQrlj5HpgIHm l7bpl7Q6IDIwMTXlubQ35pyIM+aXpSAxNDoxOA0K5pS25Lu25Lq6OiB6aGF5aXlvbmc7IHpoYXlp eW9uZw0K5Li76aKYOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXpoYS1kZXRu ZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UtMDAudHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LXpoYS1k ZXRuZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UtMDAudHh0IGhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkg WWl5b25nIFpoYSBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkuDQoNCk5hbWU6CQlk cmFmdC16aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlDQpSZXZpc2lvbjoJMDANClRpdGxlOgkJRGV0ZXJtaW5p c3RpYyBOZXR3b3JraW5nIFVzZSBDYXNlIGluIE1vYmlsZSBOZXR3b3JrDQpEb2N1bWVudCBkYXRl OgkyMDE1LTA3LTAxDQpHcm91cDoJCUluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0KUGFnZXM6CQkxMA0K VVJMOiAgICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFm dC16aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlLTAwLnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0 YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXpoYS1kZXRuZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UvDQpIdG1saXpl ZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXpoYS1kZXRuZXQtdXNl LWNhc2UtMDANCg0KDQpBYnN0cmFjdDoNCiAgIFRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIHNvbWUg aGlnaCBsZXZlbCB1c2UgY2FzZXMgYW5kIHNjZW5hcmlvcw0KICAgd2l0aCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMg b24gZGVsYXkgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIGFuZCBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIG5ldHdvcmtpbmcuDQogICBOb3Qg b25seSB0aGUgdGVsZWNvbSBpbmR1c3RyeSBidXQgYWxzbyB2ZXJ0aWNhbCBpbmR1c3RyaWVzIGhh dmUNCiAgIGJlZW4gaW52ZXN0aWdhdGVkLiBJbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgNUcgbmV0d29ya2lu ZywgaW5kdXN0cmlhbA0KICAgYXV0b21hdGlvbiwgYXV0b21vdGl2ZSBpbmR1c3RyeSwgbWVkaWEg YW5kIGdhbWluZyBpbmR1c3RyeSBhcmUNCiAgIHR5cGljYWwgcmVsYXRlZCBpbmR1c3RyaWVzIGJl bGlldmVkIHRvIGJlIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aXZlIGZvciB0aGUNCiAgIHRlY2huaWNhbCByZXF1aXJl bWVudHMgb24gdWx0cmEtZmFzdCBhbmQgdWx0cmEtcmVsaWFiaWxpdHkNCiAgIGNvbW11bmljYXRp b25zLg0KDQoNCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KDQoNClBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRo YXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1p c3Npb24gdW50aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBh dCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCg0K From nobody Wed Jul 15 02:30:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D2A1A0122; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:30:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.212 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.212 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xijgVAWPMMFV; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hercules.uni.lu (hercules.uni.lu [158.64.76.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62E831A0117; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:29:58 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,479,1432591200"; d="scan'208";a="68824317" From: Maria Rita PALATTELLA To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" , "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQnt87cu8CF3Qk/EuIhPLeuB1Bb52cgUKggD/5zHA= Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:29:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150604155751.23191.483.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.91.2.208] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:30:02 -0000 Hi Pascal, Thanks for having put this together.=20 I have read the draft v01 since long time, and only now finally able to pro= vide you some feedback. The draft explains well how the 6TiSCH architecture works, when a centraliz= ed approach is used, and what is needed from DetNet to build schedules in a= centralized fashion, for setting up tracks, tagging packets, etc. There is only one concept that IMHO is not that clear, and it creates a bit= of confusion. You use Track for explaining two different concepts (based on my understand= ing). At the beginning (pag. 5) you describe a track as: << is a complex form of a uni-directional Circuit ([I-D.ietf-6tisch-termin= ology]). As opposed to a simple circuit that is a sequence of nodes and = links, a Track is shaped as a directed acyclic graph towards a destination = to support multi-path forwarding and route around failures. A Track may a= lso branch off and rejoin, for the purpose of the so-called Packet Replicat= ion and Elimination (PRE), over non congruent branches. >> and still according to this, at pag. 9 you refer to a track as a possible <= <6TiSCH topology>>. This in IMHO in conflict with the definition of track to which we are (or a= t least I am) used, according to [I-D.ietf-6tisch-terminology]), and which = you also use inside this draft: << A Track is a unidirectional path between a source and a destination. In= a Track cell, the normal operation of IEEE802.15.4 Automatic Repeat-reQues= t (ARQ) usually happens, though the acknowledgment may be omitted in some = cases, for instance if there is no scheduled cell for a retry..... A Track is thus formed end-to-end as a succession of pa= ired bundles, a receive bundle from the previous hop and a transmit bund= le to the next hop along the Track, and a cell in such a bundle belongs to = at most one Track.>> =20 Is there maybe the need to differentiate the two concepts with two differen= t terms, or is it me missing something? Another thing, that I would like to discuss is about chunk. At pag. 8, you write: << The appropriation of a chunk can be requested explicitly by the PCE to = any node. After a successful appropriation, the PCE owns the cells in tha= t chunk, and may use them as hard cells to set up Tracks. >> In my understanding, it should be other nodes to request the appropriation = of a chunk to the PCE. The PCE should own all of them, being the one building the CDU, and the chu= nks. Then different (parent) nodes in the network may ask for chunks, and t= hey will assign the cells within the chunk to their children. Is it correct= ? Finally, something that 6TiSCH may need from DetNet is also the management/= coordination of several PCEs. It is luckily that we will have more than one PCE, and we will need some me= chanisms to coordinate the inter-controllers synchronization, especially if= a track is crossing several domains, under the control of different PCEs. Of course we first need to solve the simplest scenario, with one PCE, but w= e should take into account also this. Thank you, Maria Rita -----Original Message----- From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (= pthubert) Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2015 6:02 PM To: 6tisch@ietf.org Cc: detnet@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4de= tnet-00.txt Dear all: I prepared this based on Archie-1 to support 6TiSCH needs at DetNet. It is only a 00 and I'll enrich it soon. Still I thought relevant to share = the early work. What do you all think? Pascal -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20 Sent: jeudi 4 juin 2015 17:58 To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Pascal Thubert (pthubert) Subject: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Pascal Thubert and posted to the IETF re= pository. Name: draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet Revision: 00 Title: 6TiSCH requirements for DetNet Document date: 2015-06-04 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 19 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-6tisch-4= detnet-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6tisch-4detn= et/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00 Abstract: This document builds on the 6TiSCH architecture that defines, among others, mechanisms to establish and maintain deterministic routing and scheduling in a centralized fashion. The document details dependencies on DetNet and PCE controller to express topologies and capabilities, as well as abstract state that the controller must be able to program into the network devices to enable deterministic forwarding operations. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Sat Jul 18 03:59:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F82A1B2B01; Sat, 18 Jul 2015 03:59:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 33xK6KGpxL5Y; Sat, 18 Jul 2015 03:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD7211B2B02; Sat, 18 Jul 2015 03:59:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7478; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437217147; x=1438426747; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=f4+wL4LEeqYMV+jLyZZtVBRWeJ7Npc4ynxXBRg3DeH0=; b=C9XK79WCLm75MtiPsASAH9J0O7+3oje4dDG1Jh4S9SQ8pwiYw5S7vdpf TMQtjiTCGlme4agAD2dF7YbmpsoX+k2aTZQaoi3vg5Af0D87IKWPS8gll tmwuY8CwFCkcfUSkA0qbsh/YkH6rn8L9rnDyC+XeDMWkJpSfvEbXFbVHb s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AKBQCUMKpV/4YNJK1bgxNUaQa7Y4FrCoIzgnpKAoEnOhIBAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQMBAQEBNzQJAgUHBAIBCBEBAwEBCwsJCQcnCxQDBQEIAgQBDQUIiB4IDcx+AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4tMhFUxBwYEgw2BFAEEjDiIGgGEboczgUJGg1SDEJAaJoI+gT5vgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,499,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="170010319" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Jul 2015 10:59:06 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6IAx4Jc009553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:59:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.72]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 18 Jul 2015 05:59:04 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Maria Rita PALATTELLA , "6tisch@ietf.org" <6tisch@ietf.org> Thread-Topic: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQnt87cu8CF3Qk/EuIhPLeuB1Bb52cgUKggD/5zHCABM3+QA== Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:59:04 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:59:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150604155751.23191.483.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.240.19] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:59:09 -0000 Hello Maria Rita =20 > Hi Pascal, >=20 > Thanks for having put this together. > I have read the draft v01 since long time, and only now finally able to > provide you some feedback. >=20 > The draft explains well how the 6TiSCH architecture works, when a > centralized approach is used, and what is needed from DetNet to build > schedules in a centralized fashion, for setting up tracks, tagging packet= s, etc. >=20 > There is only one concept that IMHO is not that clear, and it creates a b= it of > confusion. > You use Track for explaining two different concepts (based on my > understanding). > At the beginning (pag. 5) you describe a track as: >=20 > << is a complex form of a uni-directional Circuit ([I-D.ietf-6tisch- > terminology]). As opposed to a simple circuit that is a sequence of no= des > and links, a Track is shaped as a directed acyclic graph towards a destin= ation > to support multi-path forwarding and route around failures. A Track may > also > branch off and rejoin, for the purpose of the so-called Packet Replic= ation > and Elimination (PRE), over non congruent branches. >> Yes, We have not really discussed PRP vs. ARQ, we should dig more and the draft = is an occasion to do that. PRP allows multiple copies to circulate over dif= ferent paths and eliminates the duplications at some places in the network = (or the end point). It is really a different form of reliability with addit= ional diversity (spatial diversity). What we defined is that a PCE configures is an incoming bundle and an outgo= ing bundle. Packets received on an incoming bundle are switched on an outgo= ing bundle.=20 There may be multiple ways for using that, and that's a PCE game to decide = how it works. For instance we allow a packet to be received by more than on= e node since the destination MAC is 0xFFFF. Two or more nodes may be listen= ing on a same time slot which is common to their incoming bundles (or 2 dif= ferent time slots in the same outgoing bundle), in which case we achieve a = frame replication. Some incoming slots may be coming from different peers i= n which case we are doing an elimination. Now the questions are: Do we define a pair of bundles per packet in which case we do not need a se= quence counter? Do we want ARQ and then how does it work? > and still according to this, at pag. 9 you refer to a track as a possible > <<6TiSCH topology>>. Well a track defines a topology, right? It is computed by the PCE as oppose= d to RPL but that is still a graph, isn't it? >=20 > This in IMHO in conflict with the definition of track to which we are (or= at > least I am) used, according to [I-D.ietf-6tisch-terminology]), and which = you > also use inside this draft: >=20 > << A Track is a unidirectional path between a source and a destination. = In a > Track cell, the normal operation of IEEE802.15.4 Automatic Repeat-reQuest > (ARQ) usually happens, though the acknowledgment may be omitted in > some cases, for instance if there is no scheduled cell > for a retry..... A Track is thus formed end-to-end as a succession of = paired > bundles, a receive bundle from the previous hop and a transmit bundle = to > the next hop along the Track, and a cell in such a bundle belongs to at = most > one Track.>> >=20 > Is there maybe the need to differentiate the two concepts with two > different terms, or is it me missing something? I think we want to extend the definition f track so that it can be more com= plex than a suite of node. What do others think? >=20 > Another thing, that I would like to discuss is about chunk. > At pag. 8, you write: >=20 > << The appropriation of a chunk can be requested explicitly by the PCE t= o > any node. After a successful appropriation, the PCE owns the cells in t= hat > chunk, and may use them as hard cells to set up Tracks. >> >=20 > In my understanding, it should be other nodes to request the appropriatio= n > of a chunk to the PCE. > The PCE should own all of them, being the one building the CDU, and the > chunks. Then different (parent) nodes in the network may ask for chunks, > and they will assign the cells within the chunk to their children. Is it = correct? >=20 > Finally, something that 6TiSCH may need from DetNet is also the > management/coordination of several PCEs. > It is luckily that we will have more than one PCE, and we will need some > mechanisms to coordinate the inter-controllers synchronization, especiall= y > if a track is crossing several domains, under the control of different PC= Es. > Of course we first need to solve the simplest scenario, with one PCE, but= we > should take into account also this. Well, the bundle manager is logically a different entity, so logically the = PCE appropriates some bundles as well.=20 The difference is that the chunks that the PCE owns are composed of hard ce= lls. Do we agree? > Thank you, > Maria Rita >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert > (pthubert) > Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2015 6:02 PM > To: 6tisch@ietf.org > Cc: detnet@ietf.org > Subject: [Detnet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch- > 4detnet-00.txt >=20 > Dear all: >=20 > I prepared this based on Archie-1 to support 6TiSCH needs at DetNet. > It is only a 00 and I'll enrich it soon. Still I thought relevant to shar= e the > early work. >=20 > What do you all think? >=20 > Pascal >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: jeudi 4 juin 2015 17:58 > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Pascal Thubert and posted to the IETF > repository. >=20 > Name: draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet > Revision: 00 > Title: 6TiSCH requirements for DetNet > Document date: 2015-06-04 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 19 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-6tisch= - > 4detnet-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thubert-6tisch-4de= tnet/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-6tisch-4detnet-= 00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document builds on the 6TiSCH architecture that defines, among > others, mechanisms to establish and maintain deterministic routing > and scheduling in a centralized fashion. The document details > dependencies on DetNet and PCE controller to express topologies and > capabilities, as well as abstract state that the controller must be > able to program into the network devices to enable deterministic > forwarding operations. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >=20 > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Mon Jul 20 00:40:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7101A0145 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 00:40:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.034 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZko7z7fcg5G for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 00:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy8-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.33.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 97B2F1A0119 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 00:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4014 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jul 2015 07:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO CMOut01) (10.0.90.82) by gproxy8.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 20 Jul 2015 07:40:23 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by CMOut01 with id uXgJ1q00e2SSUrH01XgMP4; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 01:40:23 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=NJxGpSKg c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=cNaOj0WVAAAA:8 a=JAI3OqB5mnwA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=-NfooI8aBGcA:10 a=uEJ9t1CZtbIA:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=6Q3g0WM8r6RquSb9plkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Cc:Subject:From:To; bh=BG5cRDXkpFK5lTnO8YIybtVIVodwwJBiKN3dcOxeTXU=; b=NSCdKjCYvUIFXSoP99HqhYVViLc2bdMxEBHYZTc/WpPu24sZ97H8OHO8b1UgBJ2gD+hXsAllhthUwQb9/jrWLp/1nziFppCeXixG7WwFrWCMK3EM/v6Kr1MEBWHFffYn; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:47271 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZH5gR-0001zk-5Z; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 01:40:19 -0600 To: DetNet From: Lou Berger X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55ACA5D4.5010207@labn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 09:40:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Archived-At: Cc: Pat Thaler Subject: [Detnet] Minute taking / takers for today's meeting X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:40:30 -0000 As a reminder the DetNet BoF will be held today at 1300 in the Grand Hilton Ballroom. We are looking for volunteer minute takers -- if willing please drop us a note. We will also be using etherpad during the session for crowd-sourced minute taking. Everyone can help capture and ensure the correctness of the minute taking by joining and contributing to the etherpad session: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-93-detnet We're looking forward to a great session! Thanks, Lou and Pat From nobody Mon Jul 20 05:54:01 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE9091A700A for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xk39gTDeO9Rf for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ECE31A874B for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbcc4 with SMTP id cc4so36704149wgb.3 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ztFfHIu+1MmCvxH2OKA0sdQ0NTs+ZIY6ED9CHwi3kg0=; b=TVCZVQB+hGD/aulChLb50Ik4OhSgEEwWEr+iEB8vzyrFPsbUz5u4AdAcEyIYhin2Qe GyschPX8zUmGUAjPS5D65xUhLEtzTqYTAvRcBg2Mank3kAZC8BJ+ABbh39P0hYOVMjKL KaioS7bywC8r5xNAbOroJYpo/Ph21q91xY5HesYmYEh0Lm1aEtObs6P5oyg2GziHnC+d wuKtAEtyrAKiXG6FdQCsWa9hm9h2UXkEzI6n3tQwlUQ1Go+gkge/qFbfFTNV1OdnyxNa Sr88Jftx95yOBVliQDHMX2RtPofVqkUScdN/qJ8VxinPfffPQcMTksCByBvKL5dTlQSa Nmqg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.186.35 with SMTP id fh3mr21254607wic.7.1437396803032; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.95.168 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 05:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:53:22 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Lc5rU0zhNOIkkVERZFIj0xN-89I Message-ID: From: Robert Raszuk To: detnet@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26120d89cd6051b4e055a Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 12:53:59 -0000 --001a11c26120d89cd6051b4e055a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi, So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate here .. If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element L2 or L3 ? Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers mentioned that layer augmentation today. And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly. I support forming a WG for it. Best, R. --001a11c26120d89cd6051b4e055a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ;font-size:small">So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity betw= een L2 vs L3 debate here ..

If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller = or being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network el= ement L2 or L3 ?=C2=A0

Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers m= entioned that layer augmentation today.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ;font-size:small">And frankly at least to me the presented problem space co= uld quite well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes ste= ering it properly.

I s= upport forming a WG for it.

Best,
R.
--001a11c26120d89cd6051b4e055a-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 10:38:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B746D1A8738 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:38:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jFl9rkH0PZyC for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D38E61A870B for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 10:38:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7078; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437500297; x=1438709897; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=bhW0l4HRFQhVtHNNuH2fOGysCarRQBSgoPcKWbclkDU=; b=APFeX/eiL1sRIlusOaW+LkflSIp3TpefMvel+Czso+EcgivYL2tfGmZU uDCqcBxGQqFkQqNW5mTU5Uk+mP1xmcRNMqNadzmON1QeDaz/ROh2Y36Cv kUULqnAQV8dFkgWg3XKHDoNrWhf4VLimGIPCTsIyZNmvixp/ZgN+QVpkZ M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AgAwBQg65V/4QNJK1cgkZNgT0GvAoJh3YCHIEhOBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQQjZgIBCBEDAQIoAwICAjAUCQgCBAESiC61WpYxAQEBAQEBAQMBAQEBAQEBARqLTIR1GIJogUMFkVuCeAGMKYFDk2qDYSaDfG+BR4EEAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.15,517,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="11768269" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Jul 2015 17:37:57 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com [173.36.12.77]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6LHbvLE022645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:37:57 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.220]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:37:57 -0500 From: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" To: Robert Raszuk , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Thread-Index: AQHQwusoQeeHD+nnrU+mplvyBUmAqJ3mp3QA Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 17:37:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.1.150515 x-originating-ip: [10.61.67.53] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1D44D493F5E5nfinnciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." 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(PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7794F1B2D32 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibxm9 with SMTP id xm9so133757723wib.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bbKO17yhsl0tz4c3TjXWWkfDxyQPuLeRyjW1Z+MttNo=; b=q9gOP0tpKYn9IJqY+uDoDY/sNmuwIoTmL6JOQ9VE7Liwqc8WfKNOV8455a7kfawM71 GxYvi/df+CRvBOYttAdoiyuvnELLdm8Qg/ePr80dU5ddBQYF1Q6/kfhPCABd+IrHSiX8 Ywra9tUBLJGWljstj8U/nTf8j8w+n/vDtkpVWrihyRv1SKTHltvsB9eSJdUB4e5sfg2s 3lagiOirGbFWvnG6bp1ABlS9pzOi8NMtBk69gHyfCyEiq3fsa2luBCVYlptfo18ry7yO m1YJWYoEAe8j6tkp84TF9+LdwVWr1GHz7omf3vTHeMPZuT7XLaVw8+fkxKoHRLvHQeFv lU2Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.80.229 with SMTP id u5mr33213677wix.92.1437508913291; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.95.168 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:01:53 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: axEVMVJ5hUfhoZQXWqW_nk5J99A Message-ID: From: Robert Raszuk To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04428e402366a5051b6820ac Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 20:01:56 -0000 --f46d04428e402366a5051b6820ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Norman, Ok many thx for your reply. As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the past with vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issues. How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible to control what get's into the network from central controller POV. While I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protocol which will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees. In any case I think my question is answered :) Best, Robert. On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) wrote: > Thanks for your support! > > What=E2=80=99s required at whatever level the packets operate is that it= be easy > to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get special Q= oS > handling. (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving > zero congestion loss.) MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we= =E2=80=99re > very open to other suggestions. > > =E2=80=94 Norm > > From: Robert Raszuk > Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM > To: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... > > Hi, > > So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate > here .. > > If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or > being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network > element L2 or L3 ? > > Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers > mentioned that layer augmentation today. > > And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well > fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it > properly. > > I support forming a WG for it. > > Best, > R. > > --f46d04428e402366a5051b6820ac Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Norman,

=
Ok many thx for your reply.=C2=A0

As you very well know per flow bw res= ervations has been tried in the past with vanilla RSVP and turned out to ha= ve a bit of scalability issues.=C2=A0

How about a vast different approach - strict admission cont= rol ?=C2=A0

Note that = we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible to contro= l what get's into the network from central controller POV. While I am a= distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protocol whi= ch will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees.=C2=A0

In any case I think my question is answe= red :)

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:3= 7 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) <nfinn@cisco.com> wrote:
Thanks for your support!

What=E2=80=99s required at whatever level the packets operate is that = it be easy to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get = special QoS handling. =C2=A0(There are both per-stream and per-class method= s for achieving zero congestion loss.) =C2=A0MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we=E2=80=99re very open to other = suggestions.

=E2=80=94 Norm

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:5= 3 PM
To: "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

Hi,

So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debat= e here ..

If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or bei= ng installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element = L2 or L3 ?=C2=A0

Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers me= ntioned that layer augmentation today.

And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit= to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly.=

I support forming a WG for it.

Best,
R.

--f46d04428e402366a5051b6820ac-- From nobody Tue Jul 21 15:01:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CAC1B2F63 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.667 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.667 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9jObnKPbfZwy for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D1FF1A03B3 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27366 invoked by uid 0); 21 Jul 2015 22:01:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw3) (10.0.90.84) by gproxy5.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2015 22:01:16 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw3 with id vG141q01v2SSUrH01G17ay; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:01:15 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Qc314Krv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=cNaOj0WVAAAA:8 a=JAI3OqB5mnwA:10 a=N659UExz7-8A:10 a=-NfooI8aBGcA:10 a=uEJ9t1CZtbIA:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8 a=2clOPd4PAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=jKL4lW_GsBizy8_ijlwA:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:Cc:References:To:Subject; bh=EUuyClobImcaNCICFl1n/MhJ7uW2r/cDB8wY0oFJi6Y=; b=bPVsREP+/5MTu9sSeQphxCXMpBJtyHWZ1qGScV97o3afXnMyvOndvMlpBtbk48VEWYFN7Kd6bImNPLVRUZRQJaKG52YIy8uvFfGcMsvvibDb1TLQ2i5m8NDZsaSDTpQU; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:39356 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHfaz-00053u-Jd; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 16:01:05 -0600 To: Robert Raszuk References: From: Lou Berger X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55AEC116.5030007@labn.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 00:00:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" , "Norman Finn \(nfinn\)" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:01:23 -0000 Hi Robert, Sorry for being a little slow to respond ;-) You said: > > And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite > well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering > it properly. > My response wording is a little different than norms, but I do not think inconsistent with it: This seems like a reasonable solution starting point and it certainly was part of what was intended when these existing technologies were mentioned during the BoF. That said, it will be for the WG to decide on the specific solution approach. > I support forming a WG for it. Great, thanks for your endorsement! Lou On 7/21/2015 10:01 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: > Hi Norman, > > Ok many thx for your reply. > > As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the > past with vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability > issues. > > How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? > > Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite > feasible to control what get's into the network from central > controller POV. While I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet > to see a distributed protocol which will be able to accomplish > bandwith guarantees. > > In any case I think my question is answered :) > > Best, > Robert. > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) > wrote: > > Thanks for your support! > > What’s required at whatever level the packets operate is that it > be easy to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams > can get special QoS handling. (There are both per-stream and > per-class methods for achieving zero congestion loss.) MPLS seems > a good candidate for this job, but we’re very open to other > suggestions. > > — Norm > > From: Robert Raszuk > > Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM > To: "detnet@ietf.org " > > Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... > > Hi, > > So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs > L3 debate here .. > > If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by > controller or being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 > control plane is my network element L2 or L3 ? > > Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither > charter pointers mentioned that layer augmentation today. > > And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could > quite well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control > planes steering it properly. > > I support forming a WG for it. > > Best, > R. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Tue Jul 21 23:53:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDF71ACDF2 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:53:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ch300i9bzmeo for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 288241ACDE9 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:53:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15925; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437548018; x=1438757618; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=V4ca/IVPhsH5j8ZvGnKlsXZxLrBpidJGMbhxUXZY4MA=; b=O00jG11vhXLiUDrjSOqDGUXLytxjS+8JL/QxIFbZ1ZNyEquloh01XAWx g0DagjgGjyipVV76Drw7YBVM7r6lPIcQxhyiuDeL1DbJ9Sav+mFxopEWB nYRUaeiyFcHWCm5L8eyJZVYe7UUqAvvZ1j1KYwdYe/UR69URRtlsEdKPq c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AQBQAfPa9V/4gNJK1bgkhNgT0GxB4CgUM8EAEBAQEBAQGBCoQjAQEBBHkQAgEIEQECAQIoBzIUAwYIAgQBDQUbiBPMKgEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReLTIR1EQeEKwWHD4pPgnkBjDGBQ5Ntg2Emg3xvgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.15,521,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="17590092" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Jul 2015 06:53:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com [173.36.12.78]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6M6raeM019208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:53:37 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.25]) by xhc-aln-x04.cisco.com ([173.36.12.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 01:53:36 -0500 From: "Shitanshu Shah (svshah)" To: Robert Raszuk , "Norman Finn (nfinn)" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Thread-Index: AQHQwusoFe5f8xyXyUydL9SAHZWD1Z3mhfAAgAAoOICAANeLgA== Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:53:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [10.24.191.162] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1D5036D168D3svshahciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 06:53:40 -0000 --_000_D1D5036D168D3svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, RSVP or not, if source of the traffic can=92t be trusted, some sort o= f enforcing mechanism is required to control what gets into the network. Scalability is definitely an important aspect of consideration.. I am not n= ecessarily suggesting RSVP protocol itself has scalability issues (well how= it is leveraged in the solution/deployments can I think may have one). Regardless RSVP or not scalability I am highlighting is - would data-plane = require per flow classification based 5-tuple or with deep packet inspectio= n? Would it mandate every packets, including =93non-deterministic=94 class = of traffic, on the wire subject to such classification? This sort of issues are not new and has been explored and addressed. first = few lines of abstract from RFC2475, " This document defines an architecture for implementing scalable service differentiation in the Internet. This architecture achieves scalability by aggregating traffic classification state which is conveyed by means of IP-layer packet marking using the DS field [DSFIELD] =93 At that point of a time scalability might have been realized in the Interne= t. I wonder if such scalability now would be applicable to some of the use-= cases described in the detnet session. Nonetheless, enforcing control of what gets into the network can be done on= ly at the first hop. Rest of the network can work with specific service on = aggregation of such traffic? Caveat though is that aggregation for such traffic is possible only if ever= y deterministic flow, in a given deployed network, has exact same requireme= nt of deterministic service. Why not though? Would a specific network serve= two different types of deterministic applications that requires different = determinism? And if it does than infact is it practically possible? I guess= not. I agree with you that such applications are operating in controlled network= and thus value of aggregation is quite possible. On a side note though to WG =96 requirements for detnet should also cover a= point if a deterministic network would have mix of application traffic (we= ather from same type of application or different types of applications), re= quiring different determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope= not :) point is important to highlight, or have it on a record, that may h= ave influence on the solution outcome. Regards, Shitanshu From: detnet > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" > Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi Norman, Ok many thx for your reply. As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the past w= ith vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issues. How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible= to control what get's into the network from central controller POV. While = I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protoc= ol which will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees. In any case I think my question is answered :) Best, Robert. On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) > wrote: Thanks for your support! What=92s required at whatever level the packets operate is that it be easy = to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get special QoS= handling. (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving = zero congestion loss.) MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we=92= re very open to other suggestions. =97 Norm From: Robert Raszuk > Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM To: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi, So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate he= re .. If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or bei= ng installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element = L2 or L3 ? Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers me= ntioned that layer augmentation today. And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit= to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly. I support forming a WG for it. Best, R. --_000_D1D5036D168D3svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Well, RSVP or not, if source of the traffic can=92t be trusted, some s= ort of enforcing mechanism is required to control what gets into the networ= k.

Scalability is definitely an important aspect of consideration.. I am = not necessarily suggesting RSVP protocol itself has scalability issues (wel= l how it is leveraged in the solution/deployments can I think may have one)= .

Regardless RSVP or not scalability I am highlighting is - would data-p= lane require per flow classification based 5-tuple or with deep packet insp= ection? Would it mandate every packets, including =93non-deterministic=94 c= lass of traffic, on the wire subject to such classification?

This sort of issues are not new and has been explored and addressed. f= irst few lines of abstract from RFC2475,

"
This document defines an architecture for implementing scalable
   service differentiation in the Internet.  This architecture achieves
   scalability by aggregating traffic classification state which is
   conveyed by means of IP-layer packet marking using the DS field
   [DSFIELD]
=93

At that point of a time scalability might have been realized in the In= ternet. I wonder if such scalability now would be applicable to some of the= use-cases described in the detnet session.

Nonetheless, enforcing control of what gets into the network can be do= ne only at the first hop. Rest of the network can work with specific servic= e on aggregation of such traffic?

Caveat though is that aggregation for such traffic is possible only if= every deterministic flow, in a given deployed network, has exact same requ= irement of deterministic service. Why not though? Would a specific network = serve two different types of deterministic applications that requires different determinism? And if it does than infa= ct is it practically possible? I guess not.
I agree with you that such applications are operating in controlled ne= twork and thus value of aggregation is quite possible.


On a side note though to WG =96 requirements for detnet should also co= ver a point if a deterministic network would have mix of application traffi= c (weather from same type of application or different types of applications= ), requiring different determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope not :) point is important to= highlight, or have it on a record, that may have influence on the solution= outcome.

Regards,
Shitanshu


From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Rober= t Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>=
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:= 01 PM
To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)"= <nfinn@cisco.com>
Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" <= detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...<= br>

Hi Norman,

Ok many thx for your reply. 

As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the past w= ith vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issues. <= /div>

How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? 

Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible= to control what get's into the network from central controller POV. While = I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protoc= ol which will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees. 

In any case I think my question is answered :)

Best,
Robert.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nf= inn) <nfinn@cisco.com> wrote:
Thanks for your support!

What=92s required at whatever level the packets operate is that it be = easy to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get specia= l QoS handling.  (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for = achieving zero congestion loss.)  MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we=92re very open to other sugges= tions.

=97 Norm

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:5= 3 PM
To: "detnet@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

Hi,

So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate he= re ..

If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or bei= ng installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element = L2 or L3 ? 

Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers me= ntioned that layer augmentation today.

And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit= to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly.=

I support forming a WG for it.

Best,
R.

--_000_D1D5036D168D3svshahciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jul 22 02:27:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1221A1A10 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id To2ewnxvvKba for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 02:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AE951ACF55 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 02:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-7.2.4-5) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 0a16fa55.0.2805822.00-2279.7912518.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:25:53 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 55af61a1759cd680-e26cc6a4ac022819de8baefac3ce76ac1841b03b Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6M9Pq1E015545 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:25:52 -0400 Received: from mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.240]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6M9PgER015463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:25:44 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAB.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAB.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.146]) by mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor) for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:25:37 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.243]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAB.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.146]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 05:25:37 -0400 From: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Thanks-BOF Thread-Index: AdDEYEg02+L1V12yTUWLnYz0W+iJuw== Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:25:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.87.63] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8526BF900MISOUT7MSGUSRDE_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=JfoLWz2V c=1 sm=1 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32RAAAA:8 a=LOPQWs1gieUA:10 a=zOBTX] X-AnalysisOut: [jUuO1YA:10 a=ejYIdhkpCKoCrCEwB7wA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=XV] X-AnalysisOut: [m__VGiNzl55UTyoe8A:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=5Qtn26vurYHgDE7O:21] X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2014051901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Thanks-BOF X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 09:27:09 -0000 --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8526BF900MISOUT7MSGUSRDE_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi detnet fans, I wanted to thank you all for your participation in the BOF. I think it wen= t very well. In the next few weeks, we need to nail down the charter (scope= the work), especially to clarify any comments/questions expressed at the B= OF. I'll then take it to the IESG to ask for approval as a WG. Thanks- Deborah --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8526BF900MISOUT7MSGUSRDE_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi detnet fans,
 
I wanted to thank you all for your participation in the BOF. I think i= t went very well. In the next few weeks, we need to nail down the charter (= scope the work), especially to clarify any comments/questions expressed at = the BOF. I’ll then take it to the IESG to ask for approval as a WG.
 
Thanks-
Deborah
 
 
 --_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8526BF900MISOUT7MSGUSRDE_-- From nobody Thu Jul 23 01:01:14 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D3CD1A8951 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I46ygZ_pq23t for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1AD61A7022 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:01:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=21304; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437638471; x=1438848071; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=2qAmR8Ye4Ga50bi+2E/9tgRhr//d/XA+RbF7CDe3RtY=; b=TD9HJj3VVTxlLzj24idUU5lq0N96gGTRdXNHuzaepg5ePNZFkFJUvmkY AAdm1c+dFFqLzyWGVL7lm5PNtGzCa1cElRfQrQp1UBl1AsusvZs5YOa0u DprDWHuCuMMfs4NbHTwadU5UbPxpmZwHP/zStFhHpGTjq9PgN/+3A7KFY g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0ABBQDTnrBV/4sNJK1bgkhNgT0Gw0QCHIE2PBABAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQQOFUIUEAIBCBEDAQIoAwICAjAUCQgCBA4FiC62IJYiAQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4tMhHURB4JogUMFhw+GVoN9gnoBjDSBQ5N0g2Emg3xvgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,529,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217";a="171424278" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2015 08:01:10 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6N819XO027740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:01:10 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.220]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:01:09 -0500 From: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" To: Robert Raszuk Thread-Topic: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Thread-Index: AQHQwusoQeeHD+nnrU+mplvyBUmAqJ3mp3QAgAAGtICAAnzPgA== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:01:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.1.150515 x-originating-ip: [10.24.169.204] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1D6647B3F7CAnfinnciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NCRk1DAIJrbP for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3EF41A8A1D for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:23:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3610; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437639806; x=1438849406; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=fkn98TSWwhm06U2Nopx21Hl8h2zzPibBPU8zs6pStRo=; b=CfqK/cXuxcG22kwa0ieIS8lsXTD56oitC7sUAD1ci8TgIpf7uvWKfSYe II6dELb7HAev/5OB+9rykamIDK1H1a8Tgb26bMj41dcDpeVf1MsZuJWm0 vDAX/21GOO8Gk8nLsLPcCnM3l3uYOtSZ07qlDUsMbTR8wfdOOtQ8jJAJ2 A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AgAwCxo7BV/5ldJa1bgxVUaQa7RQmBawqFN0oCHIE4OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIwEBAQQBAQEgEToJDgYBBgIRAwECAwIjAwIEJQsUAQcBCgQBEoguDZhjnRmWIQEBAQEBBQEBAQEBAQEBGoEiiiqEU0CCYoFDAQSMPogeAYR0h0CBQ0aDV5M4JoI+gT5vAYFGgQQBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,529,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="12304392" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2015 08:23:22 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6N8NMHK014301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:23:22 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.220]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:23:22 -0500 From: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" To: zhayiyong , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] [DetNet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zha-detnet-use-case-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHQxSDWynrgd3VwJkugr6cR//FgDw== Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:23:21 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.1.150515 x-originating-ip: [10.24.169.204] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4E77CA3923F89F4A81ECAEF0D741C142@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] [DetNet] FW: New Version Notification for draft-zha-detnet-use-case-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 08:23:28 -0000 WWl5b25nLA0KDQpBIGdvb2QgdXNlIGNhc2UgZHJhZnQsIGFuZCB0byB0aGUgcG9pbnQuICBUaGFu ayB5b3UhIQ0KDQrigJQgTm9ybQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTog emhheWl5b25nIDx6aGF5aXlvbmdAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4NCkRhdGU6IE1vbmRheSwgSnVseSA2LCAy MDE1IGF0IDEwOjI4IEFNDQpUbzogImRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZz4N ClN1YmplY3Q6IFtEZXRuZXRdIFtEZXROZXRdIEZXOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24g Zm9yDQpkcmFmdC16aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlLTAwLnR4dA0KDQo+SGVsbG8gRGV0TmV0LA0K Pg0KPkhlcmUgaXMgYW4gSS1EIGZvY3VzZWQgb24gc29tZSBoaWdoIGxldmVsIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50 cyBhbmQgZGVzY3JpcHRpb25zDQo+b2YgdXNlIGNhc2VzIG9uIGRldGVybWluaXN0aWMgbmV0d29y a2luZy4NCj5JbiBteSBvcGluaW9uLCBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIGlzIHRoZSBwcm9taXNlIG9mIGxv dyBsYXRlbmN5LCBvbmx5DQo+Z3VhcmFudGVlZCB3b3JzdCBjYXNlIGRlbGF5IG1ha2Ugc2Vuc2Ug dG8gdGhlIGNyaXRpY2FsIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50IG9uDQo+bGF0ZW5jeSBhbmQgcmVsaWFiaWxpdHku IFdlIGFyZSBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSB0cmFjayBhbmQgYWxzbyB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvDQo+Y29udHJp YnV0ZSBvbiB0aGlzIHRvcGljLiBTdGFydCB3aXRoIHNvbWUgaGlnaCBsZXZlbCB1c2UgY2FzZXMg YXMgd2hpY2gNCj5tYXkgcmVxdWlyZSBkZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIGxvdyBsYXRlbmN5IG5ldHdvcmtp bmcsIHBsZWFzZSBoYXZlIGEgbG9vayBpZg0KPml0IG1ha2VzIGFueSBzZW5zZS4gQ29tbWVudHMg YW5kIGNvLWF1dGhvcnMgYXJlIHdlbGNvbWVkLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo+DQo+UmVnYXJkcywNCj5Z aXlvbmcgWmhhDQo+DQo+LS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0KPuWPkeS7tuS6ujogaW50ZXJu ZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnXQ0KPuWP kemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxNeW5tDfmnIgz5pelIDE0OjE4DQo+5pS25Lu25Lq6OiB6aGF5aXlvbmc7 IHpoYXlpeW9uZw0KPuS4u+mimDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC16 aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlLTAwLnR4dA0KPg0KPg0KPkEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSS1ELCBk cmFmdC16aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlLTAwLnR4dCBoYXMgYmVlbg0KPnN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBz dWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgWWl5b25nIFpoYSBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnku DQo+DQo+TmFtZToJCWRyYWZ0LXpoYS1kZXRuZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UNCj5SZXZpc2lvbjoJMDANCj5U aXRsZToJCURldGVybWluaXN0aWMgTmV0d29ya2luZyBVc2UgQ2FzZSBpbiBNb2JpbGUgTmV0d29y aw0KPkRvY3VtZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMTUtMDctMDENCj5Hcm91cDoJCUluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlz c2lvbg0KPlBhZ2VzOgkJMTANCj5VUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgDQo+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LXpoYS1kZXRuZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UtMDAudHh0DQo+U3Rh dHVzOiAgICAgICAgIA0KPmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXpo YS1kZXRuZXQtdXNlLWNhc2UvDQo+SHRtbGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5v cmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC16aGEtZGV0bmV0LXVzZS1jYXNlLTAwDQo+DQo+DQo+QWJzdHJhY3Q6DQo+ ICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZXNjcmliZXMgc29tZSBoaWdoIGxldmVsIHVzZSBjYXNlcyBhbmQg c2NlbmFyaW9zDQo+ICAgd2l0aCByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgb24gZGVsYXkgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIGFuZCBk ZXRlcm1pbmlzdGljIG5ldHdvcmtpbmcuDQo+ICAgTm90IG9ubHkgdGhlIHRlbGVjb20gaW5kdXN0 cnkgYnV0IGFsc28gdmVydGljYWwgaW5kdXN0cmllcyBoYXZlDQo+ICAgYmVlbiBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0 ZWQuIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSA1RyBuZXR3b3JraW5nLCBpbmR1c3RyaWFsDQo+ICAgYXV0 b21hdGlvbiwgYXV0b21vdGl2ZSBpbmR1c3RyeSwgbWVkaWEgYW5kIGdhbWluZyBpbmR1c3RyeSBh cmUNCj4gICB0eXBpY2FsIHJlbGF0ZWQgaW5kdXN0cmllcyBiZWxpZXZlZCB0byBiZSByZXByZXNl bnRhdGl2ZSBmb3IgdGhlDQo+ICAgdGVjaG5pY2FsIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvbiB1bHRyYS1mYXN0 IGFuZCB1bHRyYS1yZWxpYWJpbGl0eQ0KPiAgIGNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KPiAgICAgICAgDQo+DQo+DQo+UGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBt YXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2YNCj5zdWJtaXNzaW9u IHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQNCj50 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCj4NCj5UaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KPg0KPl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ZGV0bmV0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPmRldG5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vZGV0bmV0DQoNCg== From nobody Thu Jul 23 01:27:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 416DF1A01FC for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:10:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.38 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.38 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id upFvkpYixe41 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpcmd02111.aruba.it (smtpcmd02111.aruba.it [62.149.158.111]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC6591A01CB for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 08:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dell-tcastaldi ([31.130.224.109]) by smtpcmd02.ad.aruba.it with bizsmtp id vT9p1q00V2NEPrz01T9q39; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:09:50 +0200 Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 17:09:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Meetecho Team To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <440895731.1.1437577790789.JavaMail.tcastaldi@dell-tcastaldi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_0_1351561298.1437577790751" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 01:27:30 -0700 Subject: [Detnet] Meetecho recordings of DETNET WG session X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:10:12 -0000 ------=_Part_0_1351561298.1437577790751 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, the full recording (synchronized video, audio, slides and jabber room) of the DETNET WG session at IETF 93 is available at the following URL: http://ietf93.conf.meetecho.com/index.php/Recorded_Sessions#DETNET In case of problems with the playout, just drop an e-mail to ietf-support@meetecho.com. For the chair(s): please feel free to put the link to the recording in the minutes, if you think this might be useful. Cheers, the Meetecho Team ------=_Part_0_1351561298.1437577790751-- From nobody Thu Jul 23 02:11:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2C2E1A895C for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:11:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9F927_rxZMVJ for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com (mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com [216.31.210.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 900071A8992 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:11:08 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.15,529,1432623600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="70397783" Received: from irvexchcas06.broadcom.com (HELO IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com) ([10.9.208.53]) by mail-gw3-out.broadcom.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2015 02:28:34 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.12) by IRVEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.9.208.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:11:07 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:11:07 -0700 From: Jouni Korhonen To: "Shitanshu Shah (svshah)" , Robert Raszuk , "Norman Finn (nfinn)" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Thread-Index: AQHQwus9tkM5tm+4FUmF/M4At4m0jp3mp3cAgAAoOICAALYWAIABQUGg Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:11:06 +0000 Message-ID: <72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CC@SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CCSJEXCHMB09corpadb_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:11:12 -0000 --_000_72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CCSJEXCHMB09corpadb_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shitanshu, From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (= svshah) Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:54 PM To: Robert Raszuk; Norman Finn (nfinn) Cc: detnet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... [JiK:] [snip] On a side note though to WG - requirements for detnet should also cover a p= oint if a deterministic network would have mix of application traffic (weat= her from same type of application or different types of applications), requ= iring different determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope n= ot :) point is important to highlight, or have it on a record, that may hav= e influence on the solution outcome. [JiK:] Yes, this mixture of application traffic is in scope at least to a l= evel that we have to acknowledge it. There are mechanisms coming from both = IEEE802.3 & .1 that are helpful to realize mixing different types of traffi= c in the same network, basically one being deterministic express traffic an= d others being best effort pre-emptible traffic. - Jouni Regards, Shitanshu From: detnet > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" > Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi Norman, Ok many thx for your reply. As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the past w= ith vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issues. How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible= to control what get's into the network from central controller POV. While = I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protoc= ol which will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees. In any case I think my question is answered :) Best, Robert. On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) > wrote: Thanks for your support! What's required at whatever level the packets operate is that it be easy to= distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get special QoS h= andling. (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving ze= ro congestion loss.) MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we're v= ery open to other suggestions. - Norm From: Robert Raszuk > Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM To: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi, So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate he= re .. If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or bei= ng installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element = L2 or L3 ? Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers me= ntioned that layer augmentation today. And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit= to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly. I support forming a WG for it. Best, R. --_000_72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CCSJEXCHMB09corpadb_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Shitanshu,<= /span>

 <= /p>

From: detnet [= mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (svshah)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:54 PM
To: Robert Raszuk; Norman Finn (nfinn)
Cc: detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

[JiK:] [snip]

 

On a side note though to WG= – requirements for detnet should also cover a point if a determinist= ic network would have mix of application traffic (weather from same type of application or different types of applications), requiring di= fferent determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope not :) po= int is important to highlight, or have it on a record, that may have influe= nce on the solution outcome.

[JiK:] Yes, this mi= xture of application traffic is in scope at least to a level that we have t= o acknowledge it. There are mechanisms coming from both IEEE802.3 & .1 that are helpful to realize mixing different types of t= raffic in the same network, basically one being deterministic express traff= ic and others being best effort pre-emptible traffic.=

 

- Jouni<= /b>

 

Regards,<= /p>

Shitanshu=

 

 

From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk &= lt;robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM
To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" <nfinn@cisco.com>
Cc: "detnet@ietf.org&quo= t; <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

Hi Norman,

 

Ok many thx for your reply. 

 

As you very well know per flow bw reservations= has been tried in the past with vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit = of scalability issues. 

 

How about a vast different approach - strict a= dmission control ? 

 

Note that we are operating in controlled netwo= rk hence it is quite feasible to control what get's into the network from c= entral controller POV. While I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protocol which will be able to acco= mplish bandwith guarantees. 

 

In any case I think my question is answered :)=

 

Best,

Robert.

 

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:3= 7 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) <nfinn@cisco.com> wrote:

Thanks for your support!

 

What’s required at whatever level the packets operate i= s that it be easy to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams c= an get special QoS handling.  (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving zero congestion loss.) &nbs= p;MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we’re very open to ot= her suggestions.

 

— Norm

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM
To: "detne= t@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

Hi,

 

So listening to today's BOF I have one unclari= ty between L2 vs L3 debate here ..

 

If I am switching based on MPLS label being pr= ogrammed by controller or being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control= plane is my network element L2 or L3 ? 

 

Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slide= s neither charter pointers mentioned that layer augmentation today.

 

And frankly at least to me the presented probl= em space could quite well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control= planes steering it properly.

 

I support forming a WG for it.

 

Best,

R.

 

--_000_72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CCSJEXCHMB09corpadb_-- From nobody Thu Jul 23 02:58:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 796AB1A00A8 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:58:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZzaYoo-w5GBa for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A55F91A00B1 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 02:57:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=22919; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1437645478; x=1438855078; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=s4qJ1pC74087Ye+leCOg2uT7sMYwGSyvDBZJ6pRSbDE=; b=gQQ8CinvBMv1W/49QFKddMqloendQGjJL5yuJJmKbeyFBnc/6VTQaSC/ fju897kd6Q6xN65gcIJWvs1l63mx1+ZbUDOu3Wd14gERDNSWJusZ43CKD TbP6J3qKj1d0o47pCOe2+qBQ+RVBRTU0doqtD0Hbu0xUx+TNTfmh4J7wZ E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AdBQDJubBV/5tdJa1bgkhNVGkGw0kCgU07EQEBAQEBAQGBCoQjAQEBBC1MEAIBCBEDAQEBIQcHMhQJCAIEAQ0FG4gTyz8BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXi0yEdREGAYQsBZFkgnwBjDmBRJN2g2Emgg0cgVNvgUeBBAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.15,529,1432598400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="14246876" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Jul 2015 09:57:57 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com [173.36.12.80]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t6N9vutd001474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:57:56 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.5.25]) by xhc-aln-x06.cisco.com ([173.36.12.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 23 Jul 2015 04:57:56 -0500 From: "Shitanshu Shah (svshah)" To: Jouni Korhonen , Robert Raszuk , "Norman Finn (nfinn)" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Thread-Index: AQHQwusoFe5f8xyXyUydL9SAHZWD1Z3mhfAAgAAoOICAANeLgIABl0sAgAAulQA= Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:57:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CC@SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <72CC502C2C615C42B081A9E5FC057D0532D8CC@SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.2.150604 x-originating-ip: [10.24.114.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D1D683D316A96svshahciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:58:00 -0000 --_000_D1D683D316A96svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jouni, Did you mean to say =93best effort pre-emptible traffic=94 as best effort t= raffic or class of traffic that does not require deterministic service from= the network? Just to clarify what the point below is about having multiple deterministic= applications/flows in the same network with different deterministic parame= ters. For examples 1) do we expect, in the same network, one application/fl= ow looking for worst case latency of 500 us and other looking for worst cas= e latency of 300 us?, 2) do we expect, in the same network, one application= /flow looking for determinism in terms of worst latency bound, while other = looking for worst latency + strict jitter? Did you mean this is a required use-case? Type of co-existence of multiple deterministic service traffic in a network= is different from a network having only one type of deterministic service = + best-effort traffic. Regards, Shitanshu From: Jouni Korhonen > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 11:11 AM To: svshah >, Robert Raszuk >, "Norman Finn (nfinn)" > Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi Shitanshu, From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (= svshah) Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:54 PM To: Robert Raszuk; Norman Finn (nfinn) Cc: detnet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... [JiK:] [snip] On a side note though to WG =96 requirements for detnet should also cover a= point if a deterministic network would have mix of application traffic (we= ather from same type of application or different types of applications), re= quiring different determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope= not :) point is important to highlight, or have it on a record, that may h= ave influence on the solution outcome. [JiK:] Yes, this mixture of application traffic is in scope at least to a l= evel that we have to acknowledge it. There are mechanisms coming from both = IEEE802.3 & .1 that are helpful to realize mixing different types of traffi= c in the same network, basically one being deterministic express traffic an= d others being best effort pre-emptible traffic. - Jouni Regards, Shitanshu From: detnet > on b= ehalf of Robert Raszuk > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" > Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi Norman, Ok many thx for your reply. As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in the past w= ith vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issues. How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ? Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quite feasible= to control what get's into the network from central controller POV. While = I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protoc= ol which will be able to accomplish bandwith guarantees. In any case I think my question is answered :) Best, Robert. On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn (nfinn) > wrote: Thanks for your support! What=92s required at whatever level the packets operate is that it be easy = to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can get special QoS= handling. (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving = zero congestion loss.) MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we=92= re very open to other suggestions. =97 Norm From: Robert Raszuk > Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM To: "detnet@ietf.org" > Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ... Hi, So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3 debate he= re .. If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by controller or bei= ng installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my network element = L2 or L3 ? Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter pointers me= ntioned that layer augmentation today. And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quite well fit= to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it properly. I support forming a WG for it. Best, R. --_000_D1D683D316A96svshahciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <97E37E64BE8C5D4A8DD7FB8B15DE7C00@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jouni,

Did you mean to say =93best effort pre-emptible traffic=94 as best eff= ort traffic or class of traffic that does not require deterministic service= from the network?

Just to clarify what the point below is about having multiple determin= istic applications/flows in the same network with different deterministic p= arameters. For examples 1) do we expect, in the same network, one applicati= on/flow looking for worst case latency of 500 us and other looking for worst case latency of 300 us?, 2) do we ex= pect, in the same network, one application/flow looking for determinism in = terms of worst latency bound, while other looking for worst latency + s= trict jitter?
Did you mean this is a required use-case?

Type of co-existence of multiple deterministic service traffic in a ne= twork is different from a network having only one type of deterministic ser= vice + best-effort traffic.

Regards,
Shitanshu


From: Jouni Korhonen <jouni.korhonen@broadcom.com> Date: Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 11= :11 AM
To: svshah <svshah@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "Norman Finn (nfinn)&= quot; <nfinn@cisco.com>
Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" <= detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...<= br>

Hi Shitanshu,

 

From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shitanshu Shah (svshah)
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:54 PM
To: Robert Raszuk; Norman Finn (nfinn)
Cc: detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

[JiK:] [snip]<= span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb= (31, 73, 125);">

 

On a side note though to WG =96 requirements= for detnet should also cover a point if a deterministic network would have= mix of application traffic (weather from same type of application or different types of applications), requiring di= fferent determinism from the elements of the same network? I hope not :) po= int is important to highlight, or have it on a record, that may have influe= nce on the solution outcome.

[JiK:] Yes, this mixture of a= pplication traffic is in scope at least to a level that we have to acknowle= dge it. There are mechanisms coming from both IEEE802.3 & .1 that are helpful to realize mixing different = types of traffic in the same network, basically one being deterministic exp= ress traffic and others being best effort pre-emptible traffic.<= /span>

 <= /b>

- Jouni

 

Regards,

Shitanshu

 

 

From: detnet <detn= et-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 10:01 PM
To: "Norman Finn (nfinn)" <nfinn@cisco.com>
Cc: "detnet@ietf.org&quo= t; <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

Hi Norman,

 

Ok many thx for your reply. 

 

As you very well know per flow bw reservations has been tried in = the past with vanilla RSVP and turned out to have a bit of scalability issu= es. 

 

How about a vast different approach - strict admission control ?&= nbsp;

 

Note that we are operating in controlled network hence it is quit= e feasible to control what get's into the network from central controller P= OV. While I am a distributed guy I must say that I am yet to see a distributed protocol which will be able to acco= mplish bandwith guarantees. 

 

In any case I think my question is answered :)<= /p>

 

Best,

Robert.

 

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Norman Finn= (nfinn) <nfinn@cis= co.com> wrote:

Thanks for your support!

 

What=92s required at whatever level the packets operate is th= at it be easy to distinguish one stream from another, so that streams can g= et special QoS handling.  (There are both per-stream and per-class methods for achieving zero congestion loss.) &nbs= p;MPLS seems a good candidate for this job, but we=92re very open to other = suggestions.

 

=97 Norm

 

From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Monday, July 20, 2015 at 14:53 PM
To: "detne= t@ietf.org" <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: [Detnet] L2 vs L3 ...

 

Hi,

 

So listening to today's BOF I have one unclarity between L2 vs L3= debate here ..

 

If I am switching based on MPLS label being programmed by control= ler or being installed by distributed mpls-tp L3 control plane is my networ= k element L2 or L3 ? 

 

Yes I know it is L2.5 :) but none of the slides neither charter p= ointers mentioned that layer augmentation today.

 

And frankly at least to me the presented problem space could quit= e well fit to mpls based forwarding with good L3 control planes steering it= properly.

 

I support forming a WG for it.

 

Best,

R.

 

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(PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.666 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.666 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3RnmXRd1gblz for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 04:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.39.168]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D959E1A8FD6 for ; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 04:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11084 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jul 2015 11:39:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmgw2) (10.0.90.83) by gproxy6.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 24 Jul 2015 11:39:47 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw2 with id wBff1q0052SSUrH01BfiMX; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 05:39:45 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=O9qq4nNW c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=wU2YTnxGAAAA:8 a=cNaOj0WVAAAA:8 a=JAI3OqB5mnwA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=-NfooI8aBGcA:10 a=uEJ9t1CZtbIA:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=AH8VFqvIEULy8fnCMs4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=P7DlSBJyZXEA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Cc:Subject:From:To; bh=8kZCnKqcHamE6WtA2dgZS55AoqKi4m2r56xlzWwS1vM=; b=GUu3uDyDCrh/9ma3U59+7nMstqMTPLO2EPKSpKFAPFHXTfJdL9+MDnrhj3KTxk3d1abRepsEUIDjjnXc3NKbHQLNi05YsNCHDC2cemc0oDoDMvpw9bsZwCjULhl06Y35; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:53067 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1ZIbKG-00023T-RD; Fri, 24 Jul 2015 05:39:41 -0600 To: DetNet List From: Lou Berger X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <55B223F4.70002@labn.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:39:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Archived-At: Cc: Pat Thaler , "Prof. Diego Dujovne" Subject: [Detnet] Draft minutes published X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions on Deterministic Networking, characterized by 1\) resource reservation; 2\) 0 congestion loss and guaranteed latency; 3\) over L2-only and mixed L2 and L3 networks; and 5\) 1+1 replication/deletion." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 11:39:54 -0000 All, Draft minutes have been uploaded. Kudos to all who made the BoF happen, contributed to a great meeting and helped prepare minutes. Please take a look at the draft and either send comments to the list or simply make changes to http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-93-detnet If you want to see the unmodified version: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/minutes/minutes-93-detnet Thank you, Pat and Lou