From nobody Tue Jan 5 04:43:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD8D1B2D47; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 04:43:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.983 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.983 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SsvNbuZiNa4j; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 04:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.145]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CB421B2D24; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 04:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin.extra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Internet-out-2.4) with ESMTP id u05Ch1oK002510; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:43:01 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CB62A2028A6; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:50:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDEDC2028AD; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:50:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id u05Ch1iN009533; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:43:01 +0100 To: detnet@ietf.org References: <20151216013950.14660.35543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <568BBA55.1060201@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 13:43:01 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151216013950.14660.35543.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Cc: "its@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Detnet] V2V of draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 12:43:06 -0000 Hi DetNetters, At its@ietf.org email list we have a V2V use-case. Please discuss V2V there. We try to BoF in Buenos Aires. Examples of V2V use-cases are C-ACC and Platooning. The use of the word low in low-latency for V2V means that going directly it is lower than going through cellular network. It does not necessarily mean guaranteed delivery. > 7.5. Vehicle to Vehicle > > V2V communication has gained more and more attention in the last few > years and will be increasingly growth in the future. Not only > equipped with direct communication system which is short ranged, V2V > communication also requires wireless cellular networks to cover wide > range and more sophisticated services 3GPP (a widely-deployed cellular network) talks "D2D" and sometimes ProSe for Proximity Services. Check: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-petrescu-its-cacc-sdo-04#page-8 > V2V application in the area autonomous driving has very stringent > requirements of latency and reliability. YEs, we described it in the C-ACC and Platooning at SDO draft. draft-petrescu-its-cacc-sdo-04 > It is critical that the timely arrival of information for safety > issues. YEs. But this is guaranteed by the link layer. > In addition, due to the limitation of processing of individual > vehicle, There is no such limitation. Even the entry-level automobiles feature very powerful computers in terms of processing messages coming from the network. Currently, the processing power of computers of vehicles may be limited compared to the processing needed for live scene analysis with data fed by some lidars. But that is not V2V communication. It is on-board communication between lidar and computer. You can improve that with, say, a more recent Ethernet or more recent Intel CPUs. On another hand, in V2V communications one does not even know how to establish 1-hop IP paths. > passing information to the cloud can provide more functions such as > video processing, audio recognition or navigation systems. Yes, we have done that. But this has nothing to do with V2V. It is called Vehicle-to-Internet. There are efforts to improve the latency of Vehicle-to-Internet and that is called 5G. > All of those requirements lead to a highly reliable connectivity to > the cloud. Yes, that is V2Internet. A new link layer may realize a highly reliable connectivity to the cloud. On that link one may use DHCP, PPP and Mobile IP. > On the other hand, it is natural that the provisioning of low latency > communication is one of the main challenges to be overcome as a > result of the high mobility, the high penetration losses caused by > the vehicle itself. What is "high penetration losses caused by the vehicle"? > As result of that, the data transmission with latency below 5ms and > a high reliability of PER below 10E-6 are demanded. Latency and reliability are two different things. Latency can be provided by some mechanisms, whereas reliability by others. They should not be mixed. Again, for V2V, the main problem is to how to get IP communication paths in the first place (before thinking to make them reliable). > It can benefit from the deployment of deterministic networking with > high reliability. ... Alex Le 16/12/2015 02:39, internet-drafts@ietf.org a écrit : > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic > Networking Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Deterministic Networking Use Cases Authors : Ethan > Grossman Craig Gunther Pascal Thubert Patrick Wetterwald Jean > Raymond Jouni Korhonen Yu Kaneko Subir Das Yiyong Zha Filename : > draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00.txt Pages : 81 Date : > 2015-12-15 > > Abstract: This draft documents requirements in several diverse > industries to establish multi-hop paths for characterized flows with > deterministic properties. In this context deterministic implies that > streams can be established which provide guaranteed bandwidth and > latency which can be established from either a Layer 2 or Layer 3 > (IP) interface, and which can co-exist on an IP network with > best-effort traffic. > > Additional requirements include optional redundant paths, very high > reliability paths, time synchronization, and clock distribution. > Industries considered include wireless for industrial applications, > professional audio, electrical utilities, building automation > systems, radio/mobile access networks, automotive, and gaming. > > For each case, this document will identify the application, identify > representative solutions used today, and what new uses an IETF > DetNet solution may enable. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing > list I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft > directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > From nobody Tue Jan 5 05:51:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC38D1AC442; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 14:45:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160104224509.15434.90213.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 14:45:09 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 05:51:54 -0800 Cc: detnet@ietf.org, lberger@labn.net, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] detnet - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 22:45:09 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6tisch pce teas ccamp netmod mpls Second Priority: bess pals tsvwg nvo3 Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jan 5 05:51:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965441ACD5E; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 15:49:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160104234931.12579.56856.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:49:31 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 05:51:54 -0800 Cc: pthaler@broadcom.com, detnet@ietf.org, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] detnet - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 23:49:31 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Patricia Thaler, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Patricia Thaler Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6tisch pce teas ccamp netmod mpls Second Priority: bess pals tsvwg nvo3 Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jan 5 05:51:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F521ACD6B; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 15:50:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160104235024.17386.5226.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 15:50:24 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 05:51:54 -0800 Cc: pthaler@broadcom.com, detnet@ietf.org, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] detnet - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 23:50:24 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Patricia Thaler, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Patricia Thaler Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6tisch pce teas ccamp netmod mpls Second Priority: bess pals tsvwg nvo3 Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jan 5 07:11:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DBB71A87A2; Tue, 5 Jan 2016 07:08:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160105150835.12396.21581.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 07:08:35 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 07:11:39 -0800 Cc: detnet@ietf.org, lberger@labn.net, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [Detnet] detnet - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2016 15:08:35 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6tisch pce teas ccamp netmod mpls DIME DMM Second Priority: bess pals tsvwg nvo3 Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Jan 27 04:01:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107191A874A for ; 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Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:01:25 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Varga_A?= To: "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 Thread-Index: AdFY9/qu3qNDw5wvRQCyMmcSY4Y62A== Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:01:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3C@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.18] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3CESESSMB103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7ru60jSvCDCb1SFr8/jSbxeLjvY+s FlfvN7I6MHssWfKTyWP7yUlMAUxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBmXz/5gLmhZyFhxfdMptgbG2bMY uxg5OSQETCT+nvsDZYtJXLi3ng3EFhI4zCjx8b1EFyMXkL2YUWLikT52kASbgKvE546HYEUi AuoSbW+uMYIUMQs8YpTYeraLFSQhLOAr0dx8mx2iKERi47eNULaexL71s1lAbBYBVYntU74w gdi8QPUTbswGsxmBrvh+ag2YzSwgLnHryXwmiOtEJB5ePM0GYYtKvHz8jxXCVpT4+GofI0R9 psTm0/3MEDMFJU7OfMIygVF4FpJRs5CUzUJSBhHPl7i6YhMjhK0ncWPqFDYIW1ti2cLXzBC2 rsSMf4dYMMU9JFbP+gRlm0scW7mOdRY4XA4xSszddhsqoSgxpfsh+wJGnlWMosWpxUm56UZG eqlFmcnFxfl5enmpJZsYgZF8cMtvgx2ML587HmIU4GBU4uE1OLQ8TIg1say4MvcQowoosDes vsAoxZKXn5eqJMLrvWZFmBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXHeg/yLwoQE0hNLUrNTUwtS i2CyTBycUg2MNYlCVyYrW8wJOZO98WJlju2BZ1+ubZTcFpgeWdDdJC/8o/WwS/s9gxdzctYp vat7+zth9u5PXzjL5fjkVB1mR8vPes4delv46NQrBafOGjpHuX9217ATfyEedJiP8w1nUuG1 f5I1z9uWxMZmrHBXC2za32VwOfBm4PtZf0JCp1Vl9HtOarmixFKckWioxVxUnAgApcXgruwC AAA= Archived-At: Cc: "Goetz, Franz-Josef \(franz-josef.goetz@siemens.com\)" , "Schmitt, Juergen \(juergen.jues.schmitt@siemens.com\)" , Janos Farkas Subject: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:01:31 -0000 --_004_3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3CESESSMB103erics_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3CESESSMB103erics_" --_000_3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3CESESSMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, DetNet workgroup adapted recently the documents describing detnet related u= se-cases. Industrial use-case is just shortly referred but not detailed. Please find = enclosed a proposed update of current text. Cheers Bala'zs Varga --_000_3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3CESESSMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 =

DetNet workgroup adapted= recently the documents describing detnet related use-cases.

Industrial use-case is j= ust shortly referred but not detailed. Please find enclosed a proposed upda= te

of current text.

 =

Cheers=

Bala’zs Varga=

 =

 

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No, score=-13.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AE_RwUZ4XHer for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 021F21A877C for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 07:49:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5872; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1453909764; x=1455119364; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; 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Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:49:23 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:49:22 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 09:49:22 -0600 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Varga_A?= Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 Thread-Index: AdFY9/qu3qNDw5wvRQCyMmcSY4Y62AAIk+18 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:49:22 +0000 Message-ID: <9608CEC1-1707-4684-BFB5-5D3EFBE1E56C@cisco.com> References: <3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3C@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3C@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9608CEC117074684BFB55D3EFBE1E56Cciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Goetz, Franz-Josef \(franz-josef.goetz@siemens.com\)" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "Schmitt, Juergen \(juergen.jues.schmitt@siemens.com\)" , Janos Farkas Subject: Re: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:49:33 -0000 --_000_9608CEC117074684BFB55D3EFBE1E56Cciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks a bunch, Bala'zs, for this work that we were badly missing. A few possible additions: - a distinction between process control and factory automation would be use= ful to provide actually 2 sets of requirements (distance, speed etc...). I = have some numbers that we could compare - an example control loop would be great, - some text about the value of a converged deterministic network, e.g. To e= nable the virtualization of the PLC and run it on the carpeted floor. Thanks again, Pascal Le 27 janv. 2016 =E0 13:01, Bal=E1zs Varga A > a =E9crit : Hi, DetNet workgroup adapted recently the documents describing detnet related u= se-cases. Industrial use-case is just shortly referred but not detailed. Please find = enclosed a proposed update of current text. Cheers Bala'zs Varga _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --_000_9608CEC117074684BFB55D3EFBE1E56Cciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks a bunch, Bala’zs, for this work that we were badly missing.

A few possible additions:
- a distinction between process control and = factory automation would be useful to provide actually 2 sets of requiremen= ts (distance, speed etc...). I have some numbers that we could compare
- an example control loop would be great,&nb= sp;
- some text about the value of a converged d= eterministic network, e.g. To enable the virtualization of the PLC and run = it on the carpeted floor.

Thanks again,

Pascal

Le 27 janv. 2016 =E0 13:01, Bal=E1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> a =E9crit :

Hi,

 =

DetNet workgroup adapted= recently the documents describing detnet related use-cases.

Industrial use-case is j= ust shortly referred but not detailed. Please find enclosed a proposed upda= te

of current text.

 =

Cheers=

Bala’zs Varga=

 =

 

<draft-detnet-industrial-m2m-00.pdf>
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--_000_9608CEC117074684BFB55D3EFBE1E56Cciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Jan 27 11:03:40 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E07F91B2E3C for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.624 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.624 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UX63m6F4-oUA for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-000fd501.pphosted.com (mx0a-000fd501.pphosted.com [67.231.144.242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CC981B2DDF for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0045961.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-000fd501.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id u0RJ1c70024166; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:33 -0800 Received: from dlb-xmrpw01.dolby.net (dcd-outbound.dolby.com [67.216.182.43]) by mx0a-000fd501.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 20q3hm00gf-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:33 -0800 Received: from DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net ([169.254.2.139]) by DLB-XMRPW01.dolby.net ([10.213.22.204]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Wed, 27 Jan 2016 11:03:31 -0800 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Varga_A?= Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 Thread-Index: AQHRWRpTTRqgnV4h3U2O1YLtTnu58p8PtyFwgAABYvA= Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:03:30 +0000 Message-ID: <6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246E0109DE4343@DLB-XCHPW02.dolby.net> References: <3002A87EA61E0A4DB56546AC16A0D5171EEDBF3C@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> <9608CEC1-1707-4684-BFB5-5D3EFBE1E56C@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.213.76.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246E0109DE4343DLBXCHPW02dol_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.15.21, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2016-01-27_04:2016-01-25,2016-01-27,1970-01-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: Cc: "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" , "Goetz, Franz-Josef \(franz-josef.goetz@siemens.com\)" , "detnet@ietf.org" , "Schmitt, Juergen \(juergen.jues.schmitt@siemens.com\)" , Janos Farkas Subject: Re: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-00 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:03:39 -0000 --_000_6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246E0109DE4343DLBXCHPW02dol_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks again, Bala'zs, Janos, Franz-Josef and Juergen. I will integrate thi= s with the other use cases in the DetNet group use case draft. Best, Ethan (editor, DetNet use cases draft). From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (= pthubert) Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:49 AM To: Bal=E1zs Varga A Cc: Goetz, Franz-Josef (franz-josef.goetz@siemens.com); detnet@ietf.org; Schmitt, Juerge= n (juergen.jues.schmitt@siemens.com); Janos Farkas Subject: Re: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ietf-detn= et-use-cases-00 Thanks a bunch, Bala'zs, for this work that we were badly missing. A few possible additions: - a distinction between process control and factory automation would be use= ful to provide actually 2 sets of requirements (distance, speed etc...). I = have some numbers that we could compare - an example control loop would be great, - some text about the value of a converged deterministic network, e.g. To e= nable the virtualization of the PLC and run it on the carpeted floor. Thanks again, Pascal Le 27 janv. 2016 =E0 13:01, Bal=E1zs Varga A > a =E9crit : Hi, DetNet workgroup adapted recently the documents describing detnet related u= se-cases. Industrial use-case is just shortly referred but not detailed. Please find = enclosed a proposed update of current text. Cheers Bala'zs Varga _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --_000_6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246E0109DE4343DLBXCHPW02dol_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks again, Bala’zs, Janos, Franz-Josef= and Juergen. I will integrate this with the other use cases in the DetNet = group use case draft.

Best,

Ethan (editor, DetNet use cases draft).

 

From: detnet [= mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 7:49 AM
To: Bal=E1zs Varga A
Cc: Goetz, Franz-Josef (franz-josef.goetz@siemens.com); detnet@ietf.org; Schmitt, Juergen (<= a href=3D"mailto:juergen.jues.schmitt@siemens.com">juergen.jues.schmitt@sie= mens.com); Janos Farkas
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Proposed industrial use-case text for draft-ie= tf-detnet-use-cases-00

 

Thanks a bunch, Bala’zs, for this work th= at we were badly missing.

 

A few possible additions:

- a distinction between process control and factory = automation would be useful to provide actually 2 sets of requirements (dist= ance, speed etc...). I have some numbers that we could compare

- an example control loop would be great, =

- some text about the value of a converged determini= stic network, e.g. To enable the virtualization of the PLC and run it on th= e carpeted floor.

 

Thanks again,

 

Pascal


Le 27 janv. 2016 =E0 13:01, Bal=E1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> a =E9crit :

Hi,

 =

DetNet workgroup adapted= recently the documents describing detnet related use-cases.

Industrial use-case is j= ust shortly referred but not detailed. Please find enclosed a proposed upda= te

of current text.<= o:p>

 =

Cheers=

Bala’zs Varga

 =

 

<draft-detnet-industrial-m2m-00.p= df>

____________________________________= ___________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https:= //www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet

--_000_6CE1AE4935C63549B80243EE77A7246E0109DE4343DLBXCHPW02dol_-- From nobody Sun Jan 31 05:37:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960F21A1A92 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 05:37:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SS_UvMxClGLC for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 05:37:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gproxy10-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy10-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.20.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 525991A1A94 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 05:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13345 invoked by uid 0); 31 Jan 2016 13:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO CMOut01) (10.0.90.82) by gproxy10.mail.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2016 13:37:22 -0000 Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by CMOut01 with id CddF1s00H2SSUrH01ddJmk; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:37:21 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=FuSWoQbq c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=-NfooI8aBGcA:10 a=uEJ9t1CZtbIA:10 a=7aQ_Q-yQQ-AA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=ivYoSbD0oCFtURvHugsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From:To; bh=xmT5LQtjKIR4+cKHrcxLrDrPRf6izkP9Zh9ogozeFS8=; b=dHGQZCVhS7UsKDneNuAG9Nonv8M40eqCdIdv1b64oCWM+x5Kis0KZ6j+fkOPVmBeHfrwkK1+C806TaVHnxrNl/SZyp57ic8tzMilJngkGSYF/9KyKev4r1eXQF/2hIny; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:36542 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aPsBo-00080d-Gy for detnet@ietf.org; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 06:37:16 -0700 To: DetNet WG From: Lou Berger X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56AE0E00.6030805@labn.net> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:37:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] comments on Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network solicited X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 13:37:33 -0000 All, The MPLS WG has been working on a draft title "Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network", see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residence-time-01 . Given that this is a technology we may end up being interested in leveraging at some point and that there may be addition experience with IEEE 1588 in this group, I thought it would be a good idea to (a) the the WG know about this work and (b) ask folks to review and comment on it to the MPLS WG list (mpls@ietf.org) -- feel free to cc this list in any points you raise that you think will be of general interest to the DetNet WG. Thanks, Lou From nobody Sun Jan 31 17:37:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E67D1A87A8 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:37:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zX2oYv8Db3m8 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1490B1A87A7 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:37:42 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799c6d000007d66-f0-56aeb6d1ad0a Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0A.F4.32102.1D6BEA65; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 02:37:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 20:37:40 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Lou Berger , DetNet WG Thread-Topic: [Detnet] comments on Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network solicited Thread-Index: AQHRXCyOKYOh7JDxvEaolcbn6q0mLJ8WaRHQ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 01:37:39 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112219B9697@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <56AE0E00.6030805@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <56AE0E00.6030805@labn.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt+7FbevCDL7MMrT4/Wk2i0VH81sW ByaPJUt+Mnl82NTMFsAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJVx+M1TloK/nBW3J91nb2Ds4ehi5OSQEDCR uHLnDQuELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgSOMEk3T2pghnOWMEv9XXQSrYhMwknixsYcdxBYRsJO4e/8u kM3BISwQIfFxXTpEOFJi2eqrUCVGEtt+dIO1sgioSKyeeZUVxOYV8JU4ffMvI4gtJKAusbVr GhOIzSmgIbHp3WJmEJsR6KDvp9aAxZkFxCVuPZnPBHGogMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP/7FC2EoSH3/P Z4eo15FYsPsTG4StLbFs4WtmiL2CEidnPmGZwCg6C8nYWUhaZiFpmYWkZQEjyypGjtLigpzc dCPDTYzAaDgmwea4g3Fvr+chRgEORiUe3g2R68KEWBPLiitzDzFKcDArifA+NQEK8aYkVlal FuXHF5XmpBYfYpTmYFES593CvyhMSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJsvEwSnVwChjZKLcKqHGclYhbZeY jsg/0dNFkm1FP8/LxQTsalvzn4+fzXaW5P7JogvnxHEuKwyw5RKxnNzRaht6/u2x/89ParIV b71TvJXh+x8rrw8lb05eW6Hz17/sg3X16zmMk98kbP+9x2+13wE5h/XlF2Z+ft144r/19dsx shOqG8QYUwJ+5d01OqrEUpyRaKjFXFScCACR+7zMggIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] comments on Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network solicited X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 01:37:43 -0000 Hi Lou, et. al, thank you for your interest in our work on RTM. Your comments, suggestions = always welcome and greatly appreciated. Please kindly include TICTOC WG list (tictoc@ietf.org) as well in the discu= ssion of the draft. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: detnet [mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 5:37 AM To: DetNet WG Subject: [Detnet] comments on Residence Time Measurement in MPLS network so= licited All, The MPLS WG has been working on a draft title "Residence Time Measurement i= n MPLS network", see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-residence-time-01 . Given that = this is a technology we may end up being interested in leveraging at some p= oint and that there may be addition experience with IEEE 1588 in this group= , I thought it would be a good idea to (a) the the WG know about this work = and (b) ask folks to review and comment on it to the MPLS WG list (mpls@iet= f.org) -- feel free to cc this list in any points you raise that you think = will be of general interest to the DetNet WG. Thanks, Lou _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet