From nobody Mon May 6 05:57:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142E6120181; Mon, 6 May 2019 05:56:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714741293.6859.6408767642250642597@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 05:56:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 12:56:53 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane Framework Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Don Fedyk Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document provides an overall framework for the Deterministic Networking data plane. It covers concepts and considerations that are generally common to any Deterministic Networking data plane specification. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 05:58:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9121312017F; Mon, 6 May 2019 05:58:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714751253.6859.11818403845265468110@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 05:58:32 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 12:58:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking over MPLS Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when TSN networks interconnected over an MPLS Packet Switched Networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 05:59:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DC211201EB; Mon, 6 May 2019 05:59:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714754311.6827.18196806200908774651@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 05:59:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 12:59:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IP Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the MPLS Deterministic Networking data plane operation and encapsulation over an IP network. The approach is modeled on the operation of MPLS and PseudoWires (PW) over IP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 05:59:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C511201F1; Mon, 6 May 2019 05:59:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714757192.6670.14990078493701844645@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 05:59:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 12:59:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking (TSN) Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking MPLS data plane when operating over a TSN network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 06:00:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6478B1201E0; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714760033.6738.9224594278622455057@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 06:00:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 13:00:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: MPLS Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Don Fedyk Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating over an MPLS Packet Switched Networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 06:00:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 251E71201D7; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714764207.6670.4934583628830895937@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 06:00:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 13:00:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: IP over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking (TSN) Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking IP data plane when operating over a TSN network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 06:01:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EE712021C; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:01:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714766852.6766.12668259197100411726@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 06:01:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 13:01:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: IP over MPLS Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating in an IP over MPLS packet switched network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 06:01:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEF812022B; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:01:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155714770197.6657.8207761694931877515@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 06:01:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 13:01:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : DetNet Data Plane: IP Authors : Balázs Varga János Farkas Lou Berger Don Fedyk Andrew G. Malis Stewart Bryant Jouni Korhonen Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2019-05-05 Abstract: This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating in an IP packet switched network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 6 06:49:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D844120176 for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:49:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r85a-4PIH9H3 for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 06:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr40060.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.4.60]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CA54120129 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR0702MB3808; H:VI1PR0702MB3790.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: JTN8R+wodCLtL2PKQ7BEy68Ebjxy+LnYfX7m4uPkNUwtNBbRvIJUiHPvjJlx+Q77l1BJmLCAvuFoX7K65F415ZDU4ZjcMt6yEeBTjb0ritR2luZNHq278j9Dn2Q/Sr7unsWZSslZyP4nLkYxIjVeI3xcqOtuNUw9c1Lb1/wwL83GX5XEetDVf0bTejQO5E12tsfxIEBTeTvDVIwU3dQ3Jtf2XtaokYUnNqtj2h3ymFyGqr5t2CAGdKEL4J0Vo5p8OMs/yLQP8qjyujkZnSy676hmAG5TpcgY0ydWX2qsb3VpzSoXuQx3o1B8JfJeVKXeZz9Taaitc6y1eOnN71d/VcvCwQsM/xwPBoV9IicD57Kx4m6qY6CTstuGbY82iaNVdhq8gZJIG/nBFlio9sWKf3eB47NkdY+3uQrwqZlTC4I= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_VI1PR0702MB3790FE338961C10B3F176FB4AC300VI1PR0702MB3790_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 65d8c08e-baff-48d0-6aa0-08d6d229a042 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 May 2019 13:49:14.1864 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0702MB3808 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Splitting Data Plane drafts: v00s uploaded X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 13:49:22 -0000 --_000_VI1PR0702MB3790FE338961C10B3F176FB4AC300VI1PR0702MB3790_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi DetNet workgroup members, As discussed during the Prague meeting we need to split the data plane draf= ts in order to follow the usual IETF building block approach for specification= s. As You may noticed based on the recent ID announcement the split was execut= ed and version-00 were created based on the former data plane drafts (draft-ietf-detnet-dp-sol-ip-02 AND draft-ietf-detnet-dp-sol-mpls-02). We have 8 documents now dealing with specific scenarios: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/detnet/documents/ 1, draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00 DetNet Data Plane Framework 2, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00 DetNet Data Plane: IP 3, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00 DetNet Data Plane: IP over MPLS 4, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00 DetNet Data Plane: MPLS 5, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00 DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IP 6, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00 DetNet Data Plane: IP over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking (TSN) 7, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00 DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking (TSN) 8, draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00 DetNet Data Plane: IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Networking over MPLS Comments, discussions and contributions are welcome !!! Thanks Bala'zs --_000_VI1PR0702MB3790FE338961C10B3F176FB4AC300VI1PR0702MB3790_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi DetNet workgroup members,

 

As discussed during the Prague meeting we need to sp= lit the data plane drafts

in order to follow the usual IETF building block app= roach for specifications.

 

As You may noticed based on the recent ID announceme= nt the split was executed

and version-00 were created based on the former data= plane drafts

(draft-ietf-detnet-dp-sol-ip-02 AND draft-ietf-detne= t-dp-sol-mpls-02).

 

We have 8 documents now dealing with specific scenar= ios:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/detnet/documents/<= /p>

1, draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-00

DetNet Data Plane Framework

 

2, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-00

DetNet Data Plane: IP

3, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-00

DetNet Data Plane: IP over MPLS

 

4, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-00

DetNet Data Plane: MPLS

5, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-00 =

DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IP

 

6, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn-00

DetNet Data Plane: IP over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive= Networking (TSN)

7, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn-00

DetNet Data Plane: MPLS over IEEE 802.1 Time Sensiti= ve Networking (TSN)

8, draft-ietf-detnet-tsn-vpn-over-mpls-00

DetNet Data Plane: IEEE 802.1 Time Sensitive Network= ing over MPLS

 

Comments, discussions and contributions are welcome = !!!

 

Thanks

Bala’zs

 

--_000_VI1PR0702MB3790FE338961C10B3F176FB4AC300VI1PR0702MB3790_-- From nobody Mon May 6 07:07:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96AC120176; Mon, 6 May 2019 07:07:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: detnet@ietf.org Message-ID: <155715163187.6675.1568455560521998257@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 07:07:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 14:07:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF. Title : Deterministic Networking Architecture Authors : Norman Finn Pascal Thubert Balázs Varga János Farkas Filename : draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2019-05-06 Abstract: This document provides the overall architecture for Deterministic Networking (DetNet), which provides a capability to carry specified unicast or multicast data flows for real-time applications with extremely low data loss rates and bounded latency within a network domain. Techniques used include: 1) reserving data plane resources for individual (or aggregated) DetNet flows in some or all of the intermediate nodes along the path of the flow; 2) providing explicit routes for DetNet flows that do not immediately change with the network topology; and 3) distributing data from DetNet flow packets over time and/or space to ensure delivery of each packet's data in spite of the loss of a path. DetNet operates at the IP layer and delivers service over lower layer technologies such as MPLS and IEEE 802.1 Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:22 +0200 Received: from [131.160.180.161] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.193) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:22 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a1nos_Farkas?= To: Alissa Cooper CC: "Black, David" , "draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Lou Berger , IESG , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" References: <155067447797.31337.768983002923056061.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <40b28261-5f04-7fcd-4f4f-ce243f32a808@labn.net> <1AA376D8-DE94-4FAF-B9D2-CC4E155CEC85@cooperw.in> <0f7e2d9a-bf74-b5ea-6898-29ad2129a0c0@ericsson.com> Message-ID: <3dc108b6-81d7-a6ea-730f-051d959234e3@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:21 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------05802FDD21A03536DC951682" Content-Language: en-US X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7uW6W04UYg+7HlhbTz/xltPg4azGL xbX+HywWvz/NZrH48G0mi8WMPxOZLTqa37I4sHt8efKSyWPSzBnMHkuW/GTy+LCpmS2AJYrL JiU1J7MstUjfLoErY8LmJvaCw3OYK7Y+vcfewHjjKmMXIweHhICJxLuukC5GLg4hgaOMEsf2 tLNAOF8ZJY4uecwMl/n9+DhTFyMnh7BAgUT/heXMIDabgL3E3UsbwGwRAVWJq8d+sIE0MAtM ZpL42ngMatQLFok3C9awgFTxAnVsfvqOHcRmEVCR2N3SwQpiiwrESny6spgZokZQ4uTMJ2D1 nAIOEvPmrGYDuZVZIExi2hVNkDCzgLjErSfzwQ4SElCT+PT2IfsERsFZSLpnIXTMQtIBYVtI zJx/nhHClpdo3jqbGcLWkGidM5cdWXwBI/sqRtHi1OKk3HQjI73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMDY Orjlt8EOxpfPHQ8xCnAwKvHwMhheiBFiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwpv47FyMEG9KYmVValF+fFFp TmrxIUZpDhYlcd7o1XtihATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYLJMHJxSDYxi031Du3cd6ZSdZ3hrQ9+vq6ee /Djq9OxVxdavrnN3FrDffDnJTfLVH9mZr2+mdxw8ydz0SNkjQuKky/3cOyfv8VxyEtINNZ1o VrdowQVHiWeXett6LwdN5iuwW7Z2Z2DNzY8TTle/a2SvLth9mSFm01zXQhlZhcLGzO/OMyXN X9def9necuCBEktxRqKhFnNRcSIAHQDlNKkCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 14:19:29 -0000 --------------05802FDD21A03536DC951682 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alissa, Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 as you suggested: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-6, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13. Thank you, Janos On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, János Farkas wrote: > Hi Alissa, > > Thank you for the clarification. > I agree with the change you are suggesting. > I propose to make the change. > > At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is not > necessary. > > Thank you! > Janos > > > On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote: >> >> +1 on Alissa’s near-final comment: >> >> > […] the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of >> adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be used >> as vectors for tracking/correlation. >> >> My understanding is that this is allowed by the DetNet architecture >> even though none of the data plane designs have done so to date.  In >> particular, I’ve seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for to >> identify DetNet traffic, even though that approach is not currently >> being pursued. >> >> Thanks, --David >> >> *From:* detnet *On Behalf Of *Alissa Cooper >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:34 AM >> *To:* János Farkas >> *Cc:* draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Lou >> Berger; IESG; detnet-chairs@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >> >> Hi János, >> >> >> >> On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, János Farkas >> > wrote: >> >> Hi Alissa, >> >> Please see in-line. >> >> On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >> >> Hi János, >> >> >> >> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, János Farkas >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi Alissa, >> >> We believe that we have addressed your comments in the >> most recent revision: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12. >> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASRFx5WT_ErM) >> >> Please let us know what else you would like to see done >> before you clear your DISCUSS. >> >> I/we would be happy to meet with you this week if there >> is anything you would like to discuss. >> >> Regards, >> Janos >> >> On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, János Farkas wrote: >> >> Hi Alissa, >> >> Thank you for your review! >> >> We can replace >> "DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and >> as such, does not >>    directly raise any new privacy considerations." >> with >> "DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as >> such, is not expected to >>    directly raise any new privacy considerations.” >> >> I don’t understand why this is not expected. From what I can >> tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- or >> app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential vector >> for tracking, and one that not every QoS architecture requires. >> >> As far as I understood from below, you were happy with the change >> to "is not expected”. >> >> “Combined with the above removals” (about flow IDs and OAM) is what I >> said. Either the architecture allows for these things, in which case >> one might expect them, or it doesn’t. >> >> >> >> >> Combined that with this discussion on the related text: >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsGYaJ30nFXk >> >> We came to the current text: >>    DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not >>    expected to directly raise any new privacy considerations, the >>    generic considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, >>    such markings allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to >> select >>    particular types of flow for more detailed inspection. >> >> >> Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by >> DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns. >> >> What specific further changes do you suggest to this text? >> >> Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from Stewart, I >> would suggest: >> >> DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS) mechanism, and the generic >> >>    considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, such >> markings >> >>    allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select particular types >> >>    of flow for more detailed inspection. >> >> My point is that the architecture does not actually forbid the >> possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that >> could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. This change would >> also address my concern about the OAM piece, but if you or the WG >> want to pursue further edits regarding OAM given Greg’s mail I’m >> happy to review. >> >> Best, >> >> Alissa >> >> >> >> >> >> This edit also doesn’t seem to cover the potential for >> additional privacy exposure implied by the discussion of OAM >> in Section 4.1.1: >> >> Thank you for making clear that this is the text you mean under >> "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not clear to me >> because the architecture document does not contain either new / >> novel   Flow ID / OAM tag. >> >> >> "OAM can involve specific tagging added in the packets for >> tracing implementation or >> >>    network configuration errors; traceability enables to find >> whether a >> >>    packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >> >>    replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. >> >> >> This text is there since: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-architecture-05. >> >> >> Active >> >>    and hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to >> perform fault >> >>    management and performance monitoring of the DetNet >> domain.  OAM may, >> >>    for instance, generate special test probes or add OAM >> information >> >>    into the data packet.” >> >> This was added based on >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.html. >> >> This paragraph reads to me as pretty generic text on OAM. >> >> What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this text? >> >> Should we, e.g., update the first sentence of the paragraph to: >>    OAM can support tracing implementation or >>    network configuration errors. Traceability enables to find >> whether a >>    packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >>    replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. >> >> ? >> >> Regards, >> János >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alissa >> >> >> >> >> I'm not sure what "references to new flow IDs and OAM >> tags should be removed"? >> >> Could you point to the text that should be changed? >> >> Thank you! >> Janos >> >> On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >> On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >> >> >> >> On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi Alissa, >> >> Thanks for the comments - see below. >> >> On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >> >> Alissa Cooper has entered the >> following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: >> Discuss >> >> When responding, please keep the >> subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To >> and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to >> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG >> DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot >> positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> = Section 6 = >> >> "DetNet is provides a Quality of >> Service (QoS), and as such, does not >>    directly raise any new privacy >> considerations." >> >> This seems like a false statement >> given the possibility that DetNet may >> require >> novel flow IDs and OAM tags that >> create additional identification and >> correlation risk beyond existing >> fields used to support QoS today. >> >> >> Based on the other work in the WG, I >> think "is not expected" is more accurate >> than "does not". This is based on the WG >> solutions for the DetNet data plane using >> existing IP (v4 or 6) headers or MPLS >> labels for flow identification. >> >> If that is the case then the references to >> new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed >> from the architecture. >> >> sounds reasonable.  Can you point to the specific >> offending text? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou >> >> >> >> >> Would changing to "is not expected" >> address your concern? >> >> Combined with the above removals, that would >> work for me. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Alissa >> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> detnet mailing list >> >> detnet@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > --------------05802FDD21A03536DC951682 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alissa,

Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 as you suggested: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-6, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.

Thank you,
Janos


On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, János Farkas wrote:
Hi Alissa,

Thank you for the clarification.
I agree with the change you are suggesting.
I propose to make the change.

At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is not necessary.

Thank you!
Janos


On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote:

+1 on Alissa’s near-final comment:

 

> […] the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation.

 

My understanding is that this is allowed by the DetNet architecture even though none of the data plane designs have done so to date.  In particular, I’ve seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for to identify DetNet traffic, even though that approach is not currently being pursued.

 

Thanks, --David

 

From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:34 AM
To: János Farkas
Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Lou Berger; IESG; detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

 

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

Hi János,



On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:

 

Hi Alissa,

Please see in-line.

On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote:

Hi János,

 



On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:

 

Hi Alissa,

We believe that we have addressed your comments in the most recent revision: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12. (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASRFx5WT_ErM)

Please let us know what else you would like to see done before you clear your DISCUSS.

I/we would be happy to meet with you this week if there is anything you would like to discuss.

Regards,
Janos

On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, János Farkas wrote:

Hi Alissa,

Thank you for your review!

We can replace
"DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does not
   directly raise any new privacy considerations."
with
"DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not expected to
   directly raise any new privacy considerations.”

 

I don’t understand why this is not expected. From what I can tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- or app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential vector for tracking, and one that not every QoS architecture requires.

As far as I understood from below, you were happy with the change to "is not expected”.

 

“Combined with the above removals” (about flow IDs and OAM) is what I said. Either the architecture allows for these things, in which case one might expect them, or it doesn’t.




Combined that with this discussion on the related text:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsGYaJ30nFXk

We came to the current text:
   DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not
   expected to directly raise any new privacy considerations, the
   generic considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular,
   such markings allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select
   particular types of flow for more detailed inspection.


Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns.

What specific further changes do you suggest to this text?

 

Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from Stewart, I would suggest:

 

DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS) mechanism, and the generic

   considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, such markings

   allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select particular types

   of flow for more detailed inspection.

 

My point is that the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. This change would also address my concern about the OAM piece, but if you or the WG want to pursue further edits regarding OAM given Greg’s mail I’m happy to review.

 

Best,

Alissa





 

This edit also doesn’t seem to cover the potential for additional privacy exposure implied by the discussion of OAM in Section 4.1.1:

Thank you for making clear that this is the text you mean under "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not clear to me because the architecture document does not contain either new / novel   Flow ID / OAM tag.


 

"OAM can involve specific tagging added in the packets for tracing implementation or

   network configuration errors; traceability enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the
   replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. 


This text is there since: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-architecture-05.


Active
   and hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to perform fault
   management and performance monitoring of the DetNet domain.  OAM may,
   for instance, generate special test probes or add OAM information
   into the data packet.”

This was added based on https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.html.

This paragraph reads to me as pretty generic text on OAM.

What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this text?

Should we, e.g., update the first sentence of the paragraph to:
   OAM can support tracing implementation or
   network configuration errors. Traceability enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the
   replication, and which segment was intended for the replica.

?

Regards,
János




 
Thanks,
Alissa
 




I'm not sure what "references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed"?

Could you point to the text that should be changed?

Thank you!
Janos

On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote:

 

On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:

 



On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

 

Hi Alissa,

Thanks for the comments - see below.

On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:

Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

= Section 6 =

"DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does not
   directly raise any new privacy considerations."

This seems like a false statement given the possibility that DetNet may require
novel flow IDs and OAM tags that create additional identification and
correlation risk beyond existing fields used to support QoS today.


Based on the other work in the WG, I think "is not expected" is more accurate than "does not". This is based on the WG solutions for the DetNet data plane using existing IP (v4 or 6) headers or MPLS labels for flow identification.

 

If that is the case then the references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed from the architecture.

sounds reasonable.  Can you point to the specific offending text?

Thanks,

Lou




Would changing to "is not expected" address your concern?

 

Combined with the above removals, that would work for me.

 

Thanks,

Alissa




Thanks,

Lou




_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet

 

 

 

 

 



--------------05802FDD21A03536DC951682-- From nobody Mon May 6 07:19:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2231201D3 for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 07:19:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T3_xQJKnMgEk for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 07:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 427F0120193 for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 07:19:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1557152371; x=1559744371; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HYuHlifFSixzVuU2SzPz/5TQR9alM+ErHSifN6Tba8s=; b=SG2vHqbc6d0lmvNsmtm+/x1cA1oX6qEsGuA3pODReYDrKpVys+ZKyb7GTl7cDfEt iGhI7HeumbyMSHNfs7cCWFIg5MdHtor/mjEHBTauTvwMdOrvoHSoFM93mulxw5tS TcVGEJXJH2C2t86XHodJJwIP75cc7V9A1U2oraFYVaU=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-6f1ff7000000189f-cf-5cd04273cf91 Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.118]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 19.E0.06303.37240DC5; Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.169) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:30 +0200 Received: from [131.160.180.161] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.185) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:30 +0200 To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mirja_K=c3=bchlewind?= CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org" , Lou Berger , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" References: <155532936068.10827.6039363810956335567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a1nos_Farkas?= Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 16:19:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7mW6x04UYgxdfeS2u9f9gsfj9aTaL xYdvM1ksZvyZyGzx4vpHZouO5rcsDmweS5b8ZPJo+biQ1ePDpma2AOYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsE rozlR2ewFXwWqtjVc4ilgfEdfxcjJ4eEgInEg94J7F2MXBxCAkcZJaatvs0E4XxllOg8dhEh 8+3RfLCMsEAXo8SNmdMYQfpFBKwkFt6+zQKSYBZ4xyjx4vdsqP55jBKzl8xnB6liE7CXuHtp AzOIzQtkPzy1DyzOIqAise/MMxYQW1QgVuLTlcVQNYISJ2c+AYtzCkRLfN8xF2wbs4CFxMz5 56FseYnmrbOZIWxxiVtPQM7jBFqsJvHp7UP2CYxCs5CMmoWkfRaS9llI2hcwsqxiFC1OLS7O TTcy0kstykwuLs7P08tLLdnECIyNg1t+W+1gPPjc8RCjAAejEg9vjv6FGCHWxLLiytxDjBIc zEoivInPzsUI8aYkVlalFuXHF5XmpBYfYpTmYFES541evSdGSCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUIJsvEwSnV wBiwv9pASK7g30Mx7S6m1/UbD+/+e6ToQWH7lpbPJzobE7fveshpV8zqLLjp3M8nb9z9dm6Y GN1YufJ35WJX+1nMPIqeOUlfo/9+FvThnKQgcjDZ9E2N5rKjG7Zw8/z25UtilalST9EP+Mu7 c3G4aZ9BjYKn943NlkeF0hunnf0RkpnVNEeXXYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRACsr1GCJAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-detnet-architecture-12=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 14:19:45 -0000 Hi Mirja, Revision 13 of the draft includes additional reference in Section 3.3.2: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-3.3.2, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13. Thank you, Janos On 4/29/2019 2:28 PM, Janos Farkas wrote: > Hi Mirja, > > Thank you! > > Based on our discussion it seems to be better to refer to AQM [RFC 7567] at the end of Section 3.3.2, e.g.,: > > > "Examples of such techniques include traffic policing and > shaping functions (e.g., [RFC2475]), separating flows into per- > flow rate-limited queues, and potentially apply active queue management [RFC 7567].” > > Regards, > Janos > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mirja Kühlewind via Datatracker > Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 1:56 PM > To: The IESG > Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; Lou Berger ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; lberger@labn.net; detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Mirja Kühlewind's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12: (with COMMENT) > > Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks for addressing my discuss. One more minor comment: I see the reference to bufferbloat in section 3.2.1.1, however, I guess the reference would actually be even more need in section 3.3.2. > > I agree with Alexey and Benjamin that this document should be informational. > Informational documents can also have IETF consensus, so that cannot be the reason to go for PS. However, this document does not specify a protocol or any requirements that are mandatory to implement for interoperability and therefore should not be PS. > > From nobody Mon May 6 07:22:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27D3B120052 for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oXo31-HU1dbh for ; 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charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, The DetNet architecture draft has been updated to implement the resolution of the following comments as discussed on the list: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/V2zVtXUUCXWrr2nUDs60dpfdzcE https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/TyXwMh9lbe_Ip4qLyWeyjUhCQqM The changes are shown here: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 I'm not aware of any outstanding comment. Best regards, Janos -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 07:07:12 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Balazs Varga , Norman Finn , Pascal Thubert , Balázs Varga , Janos Farkas , János Farkas A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt has been successfully submitted by János Farkas and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture Revision: 13 Title: Deterministic Networking Architecture Document date: 2019-05-06 Group: detnet Pages: 45 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 Abstract: This document provides the overall architecture for Deterministic Networking (DetNet), which provides a capability to carry specified unicast or multicast data flows for real-time applications with extremely low data loss rates and bounded latency within a network domain. Techniques used include: 1) reserving data plane resources for individual (or aggregated) DetNet flows in some or all of the intermediate nodes along the path of the flow; 2) providing explicit routes for DetNet flows that do not immediately change with the network topology; and 3) distributing data from DetNet flow packets over time and/or space to ensure delivery of each packet's data in spite of the loss of a path. DetNet operates at the IP layer and delivers service over lower layer technologies such as MPLS and IEEE 802.1 Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN). Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------3DD3F91AE06D1E4353CAF436 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi,

The DetNet architecture draft has been updated to implement the resolution of the following comments as discussed on the list:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/V2zVtXUUCXWrr2nUDs60dpfdzcE
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/TyXwMh9lbe_Ip4qLyWeyjUhCQqM

The changes are shown here:  https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13

I'm not aware of any outstanding comment.

Best regards,
Janos

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt
Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 07:07:12 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Balazs Varga <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>, Norman Finn <norman.finn@mail01.huawei.com>, Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>, Balázs Varga <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>, Janos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com>, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt
has been successfully submitted by János Farkas and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture
Revision: 13
Title: Deterministic Networking Architecture
Document date: 2019-05-06
Group: detnet
Pages: 45
URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13
Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture
Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13

Abstract:
This document provides the overall architecture for Deterministic
Networking (DetNet), which provides a capability to carry specified
unicast or multicast data flows for real-time applications with
extremely low data loss rates and bounded latency within a network
domain. Techniques used include: 1) reserving data plane resources
for individual (or aggregated) DetNet flows in some or all of the
intermediate nodes along the path of the flow; 2) providing explicit
routes for DetNet flows that do not immediately change with the
network topology; and 3) distributing data from DetNet flow packets
over time and/or space to ensure delivery of each packet's data in
spite of the loss of a path. DetNet operates at the IP layer and
delivers service over lower layer technologies such as MPLS and IEEE
802.1 Time-Sensitive Networking (TSN).



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--------------3DD3F91AE06D1E4353CAF436-- From nobody Mon May 6 08:51:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76BC91201DE; Mon, 6 May 2019 08:51:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f93txz8hzB-r; Mon, 6 May 2019 08:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [IPv6:2a01:488:42:1000:50ed:8223::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42F19120228; Mon, 6 May 2019 08:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.192.10.3] (helo=[10.149.1.237]); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1hNfto-0001Zp-Kz; Mon, 06 May 2019 17:51:28 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Mirja Kuehlewind In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 17:51:27 +0200 Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org" , Lou Berger , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6D73185F-25C8-4E40-9CBC-502EF86A59DF@kuehlewind.net> References: <155532936068.10827.6039363810956335567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=A1nos_Farkas?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1557157893;c711865e; X-HE-SMSGID: 1hNfto-0001Zp-Kz Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_draf?= =?utf-8?q?t-ietf-detnet-architecture-12=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 15:51:44 -0000 Great. Thanks! > On 6. May 2019, at 16:19, J=C3=A1nos Farkas = wrote: >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > Revision 13 of the draft includes additional reference in Section = 3.3.2: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-3.3.= 2, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13. >=20 > Thank you, > Janos >=20 >=20 > On 4/29/2019 2:28 PM, Janos Farkas wrote: >> Hi Mirja, >>=20 >> Thank you! >>=20 >> Based on our discussion it seems to be better to refer to AQM [RFC = 7567] at the end of Section 3.3.2, e.g.,: >>=20 >>=20 >> "Examples of such techniques include traffic policing and >> shaping functions (e.g., [RFC2475]), separating flows into per- >> flow rate-limited queues, and potentially apply active queue = management [RFC 7567].=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> Regards, >> Janos >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind via Datatracker >> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 1:56 PM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; Lou Berger = ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; lberger@labn.net; = detnet@ietf.org >> Subject: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's No Objection on = draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12: (with COMMENT) >>=20 >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Thanks for addressing my discuss. One more minor comment: I see the = reference to bufferbloat in section 3.2.1.1, however, I guess the = reference would actually be even more need in section 3.3.2. >>=20 >> I agree with Alexey and Benjamin that this document should be = informational. >> Informational documents can also have IETF consensus, so that cannot = be the reason to go for PS. However, this document does not specify a = protocol or any requirements that are mandatory to implement for = interoperability and therefore should not be PS. >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu May 9 14:15:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3747120026; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:15:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: lberger@labn.net, detnet@ietf.org, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155743651177.24592.7633688625862520338.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 14:15:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] detnet - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 21:15:12 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: pce teas netmod mpls Second Priority: ccamp tsvwg lsr bess pals rtgwg sfc Third Priority: nvo3 People who must be present: Lou Berger David L. Black Deborah Brungard Janos Farkas Ethan Grossman Resources Requested: Special Requests: One 2.5 hour session please... --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri May 10 07:07:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E85312001E; Fri, 10 May 2019 07:06:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org, Lou Berger , detnet-chairs@ietf.org, lberger@labn.net, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <155749721641.2773.11664863984290569548.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 07:06:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 14:06:56 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my DISCUSS point. Old COMMENT left here: I support Benjamin's DISCUSS. I agree with others that this document should be informational. = Section 3.1 = "There are, of course, simpler methods available (and employed, today) to achieve levels of latency and packet loss that are satisfactory for many applications." I think this paragraph would make more sense if it said "specific levels of latency and packet loss for particular applications." A lot of applications have satisfactory performance without any of the methods/techniques described. "Prioritization and over-provisioning is one such technique." It seems these are two techniques, not one. = Section 3.2.1.2 = s/sensitive/time-sensitive/ I can't parse this sentence: 'In general, users are encouraged to use, instead of, "do this when you get the packet," a combination of: o Sub-microsecond time synchronization among all source and destination end systems, and o Time-of-execution fields in the application packets.' = Section 3.2.2.2 = s/ Either of these functions/ Any of these functions/ "Providing sequencing information to the packets of a DetNet compound flow. This may be done by adding a sequence number or time stamp as part of DetNet, or may be inherent in the packet, e.g., in a higher layer protocol, or associated to other physical properties such as the precise time (and radio channel) of reception of the packet." How do multiple connected DetNet nodes know which fields they are supposed to use as the packet sequence number? = Section 3.3.1 = "the highest-priority non-DetNet packet is also ensured a worst-case latency." --> Did you mean "ensured less than or equal to a worst-case latency"? = Section 4.3.2 = If applications need to be altered to be run over DetNet, or if they need to be DetNet-aware, it would be useful to state that explicitly up front somewhere in this document. This is sort of implied in this section but it's not clear. = Section 6 = "However, the requirement for every (or almost every) node along the path of a DetNet flow to identify DetNet flows may present an additional attack surface for privacy, should the DetNet paradigm be found useful in broader environments." I'm not sure what is meant by "broader environments." Is the implication that flow identification doesn't present a privacy risk within a single administrative domain? I don't think that is always true. From nobody Fri May 10 07:07:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E9DC12001E; Fri, 10 May 2019 07:07:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=TJh5ygXJ; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ESG+ty8X Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zIVcUgSurNyE; Fri, 10 May 2019 07:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0A651200A1; Fri, 10 May 2019 07:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B735D26F6D; Fri, 10 May 2019 10:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 10 May 2019 10:07:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= from:message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; s=fm3; bh=JWK4ksXs9covizKBn+P3hAe tCX9z7joR/hQ4HaMnW28=; b=TJh5ygXJ50KCJNx7kNii25+Tc5bz7wfZ3MxJJAo 0+p481uAQPBD8gKCewZIcLRPULpDCEhIrjdCg6Mqx3VW1j5tPCEAXPQZox1E2GY1 Ckerhi3F1IzgOqrbEOf+jReWwSHf5IfKJniDGlIBOAj3yVRAWFar6q3ycS1kq4cy Eo6FQUvT5bxS1DrDdswR3a6ivToLsoFf+c16H7p1Vvly7W7rDA2EDhPZSz/b/CsG w/Pr+wg0JUyQLvd5nZxEdobf9hP16hKdOWh9uptq6T5z8KQZoS+Cnuuaq/KzmYJr P8eyNdDVsmDeJ4hb13pFWNjDW2BryNeUhFUqDuswpyv20YQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=JWK4ks Xs9covizKBn+P3hAetCX9z7joR/hQ4HaMnW28=; b=ESG+ty8X2aa/GCQxqwJtlV w7DTbqcDPDhqZVto00t70rxqtyuKfil3IgNVYmu3otvIuNao++9Ua4w0genZlOXc d1QfG8a/hzaLvs2ooBx5Uzv8nw2FpDdNfJJJe1qkxaMVNiu7sUeR0CLzbIZCPkDw FesJxW5OUq/yUFb2nKIuIIAvejAvrTTBDTz6S2x/bkLy+yEou2XvDed64VvsqKKw mnX3OUBP2fqjv8ItmjOZM8Z/hjYVLKTLdzZBUABeLDvKCHHHBKlOX8S5ENBhuNsd L1aKU1UXLrYejbWNsEr0FCcwNLOR1a1Lp+dwj4d8etwgKC8OEWx1jwssm9BaR7eg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrkeekgdejhecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefhkfgtggfuffgjvfhfofesrgdtmherhhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhsshgr ucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrghinh epihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedujeefrdefkedruddujedrkeejnecurfgrrhgrmhep mhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnnecuvehluhhsthgvrh fuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro5.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.87]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7CDBA80061; Fri, 10 May 2019 10:07:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Alissa Cooper Message-Id: <007502C1-D2AF-4C75-9E45-BB44676ECB9E@cooperw.in> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1F1FDDEF-8F8A-4E92-8930-6D33E1630E09" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 10:07:33 -0400 In-Reply-To: <3dc108b6-81d7-a6ea-730f-051d959234e3@ericsson.com> Cc: "Black, David" , "draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Lou Berger , IESG , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=A1nos_Farkas?= References: <155067447797.31337.768983002923056061.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <40b28261-5f04-7fcd-4f4f-ce243f32a808@labn.net> <1AA376D8-DE94-4FAF-B9D2-CC4E155CEC85@cooperw.in> <0f7e2d9a-bf74-b5ea-6898-29ad2129a0c0@ericsson.com> <3dc108b6-81d7-a6ea-730f-051d959234e3@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 14:07:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1F1FDDEF-8F8A-4E92-8930-6D33E1630E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks, I cleared. Alissa > On May 6, 2019, at 10:19 AM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas = wrote: >=20 > Hi Alissa, >=20 > Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 as you = suggested: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-6 = ,= https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13 = . >=20 > Thank you, > Janos >=20 >=20 > On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas wrote: >> Hi Alissa, >>=20 >> Thank you for the clarification. >> I agree with the change you are suggesting. >> I propose to make the change. >>=20 >> At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is not = necessary. >>=20 >> Thank you! >> Janos >>=20 >>=20 >> On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote: >>> +1 on Alissa=E2=80=99s near-final comment: >>> =20 >>> > [=E2=80=A6] the architecture does not actually forbid the = possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that = could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. >>> =20 >>> My understanding is that this is allowed by the DetNet architecture = even though none of the data plane designs have done so to date. In = particular, I=E2=80=99ve seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for = to identify DetNet traffic, even though that approach is not currently = being pursued. >>> =20 >>> Thanks, --David >>> =20 >>> From: detnet = On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:34 AM >>> To: J=C3=A1nos Farkas >>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org = ; detnet@ietf.org = ; Lou Berger; IESG; detnet-chairs@ietf.org = >>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on = draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>> =20 >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi J=C3=A1nos, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas = > wrote: >>> =20 >>> Hi Alissa, >>>=20 >>> Please see in-line. >>>=20 >>> On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>> Hi J=C3=A1nos,=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas = > wrote: >>> =20 >>> Hi Alissa, >>>=20 >>> We believe that we have addressed your comments in the most recent = revision: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12 = . = (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASRFx5WT_ErM = = ) >>>=20 >>> Please let us know what else you would like to see done before you = clear your DISCUSS. >>>=20 >>> I/we would be happy to meet with you this week if there is anything = you would like to discuss. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Janos >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas wrote: >>> Hi Alissa, >>>=20 >>> Thank you for your review! >>>=20 >>> We can replace=20 >>> "DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does = not >>> directly raise any new privacy considerations." >>> with >>> "DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not = expected to >>> directly raise any new privacy considerations.=E2=80=9D >>> =20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t understand why this is not expected. =46rom what I = can tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- or = app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential vector for = tracking, and one that not every QoS architecture requires. >>> As far as I understood from below, you were happy with the change to = "is not expected=E2=80=9D. >>> =20 >>> =E2=80=9CCombined with the above removals=E2=80=9D (about flow IDs = and OAM) is what I said. Either the architecture allows for these = things, in which case one might expect them, or it doesn=E2=80=99t. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Combined that with this discussion on the related text: >>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsGYaJ30nFXk = = >>>=20 >>> We came to the current text: >>> DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not >>> expected to directly raise any new privacy considerations, the >>> generic considerations for such mechanisms apply. In particular, >>> such markings allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to = select >>> particular types of flow for more detailed inspection. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by = DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns. >>>=20 >>> What specific further changes do you suggest to this text? >>> =20 >>> Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from Stewart, = I would suggest: >>> =20 >>> DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS) mechanism, and the = generic >>> considerations for such mechanisms apply. In particular, such = markings >>> allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select particular = types >>> of flow for more detailed inspection. >>> =20 >>> My point is that the architecture does not actually forbid the = possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that = could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. This change would = also address my concern about the OAM piece, but if you or the WG want = to pursue further edits regarding OAM given Greg=E2=80=99s mail I=E2=80=99= m happy to review. >>> =20 >>> Best, >>> Alissa >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>> This edit also doesn=E2=80=99t seem to cover the potential for = additional privacy exposure implied by the discussion of OAM in Section = 4.1.1: >>> Thank you for making clear that this is the text you mean under = "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not clear to me because the = architecture document does not contain either new / novel Flow ID / = OAM tag. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>> "OAM can involve specific tagging added in the packets for tracing = implementation or >>> network configuration errors; traceability enables to find = whether a >>> packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >>> replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. =20 >>>=20 >>> This text is there since: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-architecture-05 = . >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Active >>> and hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to perform = fault >>> management and performance monitoring of the DetNet domain. OAM = may, >>> for instance, generate special test probes or add OAM information >>> into the data packet.=E2=80=9D >>> This was added based on = https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.html = . >>>=20 >>> This paragraph reads to me as pretty generic text on OAM.=20 >>>=20 >>> What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this text? >>>=20 >>> Should we, e.g., update the first sentence of the paragraph to: >>> OAM can support tracing implementation or >>> network configuration errors. Traceability enables to find = whether a >>> packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >>> replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. >>>=20 >>> ? >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> J=C3=A1nos >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>> Thanks, >>> Alissa >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I'm not sure what "references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be = removed"? >>>=20 >>> Could you point to the text that should be changed? >>>=20 >>> Thank you! >>> Janos >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>> =20 >>> On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger > wrote: >>> =20 >>> Hi Alissa, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for the comments - see below. >>>=20 >>> On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>=20 >>> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: Discuss >>>=20 >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to = all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html = >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> DISCUSS: >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>=20 >>> =3D Section 6 =3D >>>=20 >>> "DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does = not >>> directly raise any new privacy considerations." >>>=20 >>> This seems like a false statement given the possibility that DetNet = may require >>> novel flow IDs and OAM tags that create additional identification = and >>> correlation risk beyond existing fields used to support QoS today. >>>=20 >>> Based on the other work in the WG, I think "is not expected" is more = accurate than "does not". This is based on the WG solutions for the = DetNet data plane using existing IP (v4 or 6) headers or MPLS labels for = flow identification. >>> =20 >>> If that is the case then the references to new flow IDs and OAM tags = should be removed from the architecture. >>> sounds reasonable. Can you point to the specific offending text? >>> Thanks, >>> Lou >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Would changing to "is not expected" address your concern? >>> =20 >>> Combined with the above removals, that would work for me. >>> =20 >>> Thanks, >>> Alissa >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Lou >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> detnet mailing list >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet = >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_1F1FDDEF-8F8A-4E92-8930-6D33E1630E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks, I cleared.
Alissa
On May = 6, 2019, at 10:19 AM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Alissa,

Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 = as you suggested: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#secti= on-6, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-detnet-architecture-= 13.

Thank you,
Janos


On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas = wrote:
Hi Alissa,

Thank you for the = clarification.
I agree with the change you are = suggesting.
I propose to make the change.

At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is = not necessary.

Thank you!
Janos


On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote:
+1 on Alissa=E2=80=99s near-final = comment:
 
> [=E2=80=A6] the architecture does not actually forbid = the possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets = that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation.
 
My understanding is that = this is allowed by the DetNet architecture even though none of the data = plane designs have done so to date.  In particular, I=E2=80=99ve = seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for to identify DetNet = traffic, even though that approach is not currently being pursued.
 
Thanks, = --David
 
From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Alissa = Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 = 9:34 AM
To: J=C3=A1nos Farkas
Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Lou Berger; IESG; detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa = Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and = COMMENT)
 

[EXTERNAL = EMAIL] 

Hi J=C3=A1nos,


On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:
 

Hi Alissa,

Please see in-line.

On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, = Alissa Cooper wrote:
Hi J=C3=A1nos, 
 


On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:
 

Hi Alissa,

We believe that we have addressed your comments in the most = recent revision: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12. (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASR= Fx5WT_ErM)

Please let us know what else = you would like to see done before you clear your DISCUSS.

I/we would be happy to meet with you this week = if there is anything you would like to discuss.

Regards,
Janos

On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, J=C3=A1nos Farkas wrote:
Hi = Alissa,

Thank you for your review!

We can replace 
"DetNet is = provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does not
   directly raise any new = privacy considerations."
with
"DetNet = provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not expected to
   directly raise any new = privacy considerations.=E2=80=9D
 
I = don=E2=80=99t understand why this is not expected. =46rom what I can = tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- or = app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential vector for = tracking, and one that not every QoS architecture requires.
As far as I understood from below, you = were happy with the change to "is not expected=E2=80=9D.
 
=E2=80=9CCombined with the above removals=E2=80=9D (about = flow IDs and OAM) is what I said. Either the architecture allows for = these things, in which case one might expect them, or it doesn=E2=80=99t.<= o:p class=3D"">



Combined that with this discussion on the related text:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsG= YaJ30nFXk

We came to the current = text:
   DetNet provides a Quality = of Service (QoS), and as such, is not
   expected to directly raise = any new privacy considerations, the
   generic considerations for = such mechanisms apply.  In particular,
   such markings allow for an = attacker to correlate flows or to select
   particular types of flow = for more detailed inspection.


Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by = DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns.

What specific further changes do you suggest = to this text?
 
Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from = Stewart, I would suggest:
 
DetNet provides a Quality of Service = (QoS) mechanism, and the generic
  =  considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, = such markings
   allow for an attacker to = correlate flows or to select particular types
   of flow for more detailed inspection.
 
My point is that the architecture does = not actually forbid the possibility of adding additional information = into DetNet packets that could be used as vectors for = tracking/correlation. This change would also address my concern about = the OAM piece, but if you or the WG want to pursue further edits = regarding OAM given Greg=E2=80=99s mail I=E2=80=99m happy to review.
 
Best,
Alissa




 
This= edit also doesn=E2=80=99t seem to cover the potential for additional = privacy exposure implied by the discussion of OAM in Section = 4.1.1:
Thank you for making clear that this is = the text you mean under "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not = clear to me because the architecture document does not contain either = new / novel   Flow ID / OAM tag.


 
"OAM can involve specific tagging added in = the packets for tracing implementation or
   network configuration errors; traceability =
enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which DetNet =
relay node performed the
   replication, and which segment was =
intended for the replica.  
Active
   and =
hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to perform fault
   =
management and performance monitoring of the DetNet domain.  OAM =
may,
   for instance, generate special test probes or =
add OAM information
   into the data packet.=E2=80=9D=
This was added based on https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.h= tml.

This paragraph reads to me as = pretty generic text on OAM. 

What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this = text?

Should we, e.g., update the first = sentence of the paragraph to:
   OAM can support tracing = implementation or
   network configuration = errors. Traceability enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which = DetNet relay node performed the
   replication, and which = segment was intended for the replica.

?

Regards,
J=C3=A1nos




 
Thanks,
Alissa
 



I'm = not sure what "references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be = removed"?

Could you point to the text that = should be changed?

Thank you!
Janos

On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
 
On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:
 


On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> = wrote:
 
Hi Alissa,

Thanks for the comments - see below.

On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:

Alissa Cooper has = entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and = reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC = lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, = however.)


Please refer = to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htmlfor more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT = positions.


The document, = along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture= /



---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
DISCUSS:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

=3D Section 6 =3D

"DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, = does not
   directly raise any new privacy = considerations."

This seems like a false = statement given the possibility that DetNet may require
novel flow IDs and OAM tags that create additional = identification and
correlation risk beyond existing fields = used to support QoS today.

Based on the other work in the = WG, I think "is not expected" is more accurate than "does not". This is = based on the WG solutions for the DetNet data plane using existing IP = (v4 or 6) headers or MPLS labels for flow identification.
 
If that is the case then the references to new flow IDs and = OAM tags should be removed from the architecture.
sounds reasonable.  Can you point to the specific = offending text?
Thanks,
Lou



Would changing to "is not = expected" address your concern?
 
Combined with the above removals, that would work for me.
 
Thanks,
Alissa



Thanks,

Lou



_______________________________________________
detnet =
mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
 
 
 
 
 




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Fri, 10 May 2019 16:12:15 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMR504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.126) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 10 May 2019 16:12:15 +0200 Received: from [131.160.180.161] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.186) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 10 May 2019 16:12:14 +0200 To: Alissa Cooper CC: "Black, David" , "draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Lou Berger , IESG , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" References: <155067447797.31337.768983002923056061.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <40b28261-5f04-7fcd-4f4f-ce243f32a808@labn.net> <1AA376D8-DE94-4FAF-B9D2-CC4E155CEC85@cooperw.in> <0f7e2d9a-bf74-b5ea-6898-29ad2129a0c0@ericsson.com> <3dc108b6-81d7-a6ea-730f-051d959234e3@ericsson.com> <007502C1-D2AF-4C75-9E45-BB44676ECB9E@cooperw.in> From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a1nos_Farkas?= Message-ID: <8cb29cd0-86c6-e2ef-a778-192944406207@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 16:12:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you Alissa! Janos On 5/10/2019 4:07 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: > Thanks, I cleared. > Alissa > >> On May 6, 2019, at 10:19 AM, János Farkas > > wrote: >> >> Hi Alissa, >> >> Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 as you >> suggested:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-6,https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13. >> >> Thank you, >> Janos >> >> >> On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, János Farkas wrote: >>> Hi Alissa, >>> >>> Thank you for the clarification. >>> I agree with the change you are suggesting. >>> I propose to make the change. >>> >>> At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is not >>> necessary. >>> >>> Thank you! >>> Janos >>> >>> >>> On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote: >>>> +1 on Alissa’s near-final comment: >>>> > […] the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of >>>> adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be >>>> used as vectors for tracking/correlation. >>>> My understanding is that this is allowed by the DetNet architecture >>>> even though none of the data plane designs have done so to date.  >>>> In particular, I’ve seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for >>>> to identify DetNet traffic, even though that approach is not >>>> currently being pursued. >>>> Thanks, --David >>>> *From:*detnet*On Behalf Of*Alissa Cooper >>>> *Sent:*Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:34 AM >>>> *To:*János Farkas >>>> *Cc:*draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org;detnet@ietf.org; Lou >>>> Berger; IESG;detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> *Subject:*Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>> >>>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>> >>>> Hi János, >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, János Farkas >>>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alissa, >>>> >>>> Please see in-line. >>>> >>>> On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi János, >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, János Farkas >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alissa, >>>> >>>> We believe that we have addressed your comments in the >>>> most recent >>>> revision:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12. >>>> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASRFx5WT_ErM) >>>> >>>> Please let us know what else you would like to see done >>>> before you clear your DISCUSS. >>>> >>>> I/we would be happy to meet with you this week if there >>>> is anything you would like to discuss. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Janos >>>> >>>> On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, János Farkas wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alissa, >>>> >>>> Thank you for your review! >>>> >>>> We can replace >>>> "DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and >>>> as such, does not >>>> directly raise any new privacy considerations." >>>> with >>>> "DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as >>>> such, is not expected to >>>> directly raise any new privacy considerations.” >>>> >>>> I don’t understand why this is not expected. From what I >>>> can tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- >>>> or app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential >>>> vector for tracking, and one that not every QoS >>>> architecture requires. >>>> >>>> As far as I understood from below, you were happy with the >>>> change to "is not expected”. >>>> >>>> “Combined with the above removals” (about flow IDs and OAM) is what >>>> I said. Either the architecture allows for these things, in which >>>> case one might expect them, or it doesn’t. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Combined that with this discussion on the related text: >>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsGYaJ30nFXk >>>> >>>> We came to the current text: >>>> DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not >>>> expected to directly raise any new privacy considerations, the >>>> generic considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, >>>> such markings allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select >>>> particular types of flow for more detailed inspection. >>>> >>>> >>>> Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by >>>> DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns. >>>> >>>> What specific further changes do you suggest to this text? >>>> >>>> Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from Stewart, >>>> I would suggest: >>>> DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS) mechanism, and the generic >>>>    considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, such >>>> markings >>>>    allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select particular >>>> types >>>>    of flow for more detailed inspection. >>>> My point is that the architecture does not actually forbid the >>>> possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets >>>> that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. This change >>>> would also address my concern about the OAM piece, but if you or >>>> the WG want to pursue further edits regarding OAM given Greg’s mail >>>> I’m happy to review. >>>> Best, >>>> Alissa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This edit also doesn’t seem to cover the potential for >>>> additional privacy exposure implied by the discussion of >>>> OAM in Section 4.1.1: >>>> >>>> Thank you for making clear that this is the text you mean under >>>> "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not clear to me >>>> because the architecture document does not contain either new / >>>> novel   Flow ID / OAM tag. >>>> >>>> >>>> "OAM can involve specific tagging added in the packets for >>>> tracing implementation or >>>> >>>>    network configuration errors; traceability enables to >>>> find whether a >>>> >>>>    packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >>>> >>>>    replication, and which segment was intended for the >>>> replica. >>>> >>>> >>>> This text is there >>>> since:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-finn-detnet-architecture-05. >>>> >>>> >>>> Active >>>> >>>>    and hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to >>>> perform fault >>>> >>>>    management and performance monitoring of the DetNet >>>> domain.  OAM may, >>>> >>>>    for instance, generate special test probes or add OAM >>>> information >>>> >>>>    into the data packet.” >>>> >>>> This was added based >>>> onhttps://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.html. >>>> >>>> This paragraph reads to me as pretty generic text on OAM. >>>> >>>> What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this text? >>>> >>>> Should we, e.g., update the first sentence of the paragraph to: >>>> OAM can support tracing implementation or >>>> network configuration errors. Traceability enables to find >>>> whether a >>>> packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the >>>> replication, and which segment was intended for the replica. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> János >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Alissa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not sure what "references to new flow IDs and >>>> OAM tags should be removed"? >>>> >>>> Could you point to the text that should be changed? >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> Janos >>>> >>>> On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger >>>> >>> > wrote: >>>> Hi Alissa, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the comments - see below. >>>> >>>> On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>> >>>> Alissa Cooper has entered the >>>> following ballot position for >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: >>>> Discuss >>>> >>>> When responding, please keep the >>>> subject line intact and reply to all >>>> email addresses included in the To >>>> and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Please refer >>>> tohttps://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>>> for more information about IESG >>>> DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>> >>>> >>>> The document, along with other >>>> ballot positions, can be found here: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> DISCUSS: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> = Section 6 = >>>> >>>> "DetNet is provides a Quality of >>>> Service (QoS), and as such, does not >>>>    directly raise any new privacy >>>> considerations." >>>> >>>> This seems like a false statement >>>> given the possibility that DetNet >>>> may require >>>> novel flow IDs and OAM tags that >>>> create additional identification and >>>> correlation risk beyond existing >>>> fields used to support QoS today. >>>> >>>> >>>> Based on the other work in the WG, I >>>> think "is not expected" is more >>>> accurate than "does not". This is based >>>> on the WG solutions for the DetNet data >>>> plane using existing IP (v4 or 6) >>>> headers or MPLS labels for flow >>>> identification. >>>> >>>> If that is the case then the references to >>>> new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed >>>> from the architecture. >>>> >>>> sounds reasonable.  Can you point to the >>>> specific offending text? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Would changing to "is not expected" >>>> address your concern? >>>> >>>> Combined with the above removals, that >>>> would work for me. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Alissa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Lou >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> detnet mailing list >>>> >>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>>> >>> >> >> > --------------8C29FF7A98023446473E9A75 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you Alissa!
Janos


On 5/10/2019 4:07 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote:
Thanks, I cleared.
Alissa

On May 6, 2019, at 10:19 AM, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Alissa,

Revision 13 of the draft implements the change in Section 6 as you suggested: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13#section-6, https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.

Thank you,
Janos


On 4/24/2019 8:25 PM, János Farkas wrote:
Hi Alissa,

Thank you for the clarification.
I agree with the change you are suggesting.
I propose to make the change.

At this stage, I suggest to avoid any further change that is not necessary.

Thank you!
Janos


On 4/18/2019 6:52 PM, Black, David wrote:
+1 on Alissa’s near-final comment:
 
> […] the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation.
 
My understanding is that this is allowed by the DetNet architecture even though none of the data plane designs have done so to date.  In particular, I’ve seen some prior discussion of using DSCPs for to identify DetNet traffic, even though that approach is not currently being pursued.
 
Thanks, --David
 
From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Alissa Cooper
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 9:34 AM
To: János Farkas
Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Lou Berger; IESG; detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
 

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] 

Hi János,


On Apr 15, 2019, at 5:08 PM, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:
 

Hi Alissa,

Please see in-line.

On 4/12/2019 7:08 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote:
Hi János, 
 


On Mar 25, 2019, at 12:16 PM, János Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:
 

Hi Alissa,

We believe that we have addressed your comments in the most recent revision: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-12. (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/utVL9ZVGcOeGtRIASRFx5WT_ErM)

Please let us know what else you would like to see done before you clear your DISCUSS.

I/we would be happy to meet with you this week if there is anything you would like to discuss.

Regards,
Janos

On 2/26/2019 2:20 PM, János Farkas wrote:
Hi Alissa,

Thank you for your review!

We can replace 
"DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does not
   directly raise any new privacy considerations."
with
"DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not expected to
   directly raise any new privacy considerations.”
 
I don’t understand why this is not expected. From what I can tell, the architecture allows for the use off domain- or app-flow-specific IDs. These seem like a new potential vector for tracking, and one that not every QoS architecture requires.
As far as I understood from below, you were happy with the change to "is not expected”.
 
“Combined with the above removals” (about flow IDs and OAM) is what I said. Either the architecture allows for these things, in which case one might expect them, or it doesn’t.



Combined that with this discussion on the related text:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/detnet/-L_wsGPMqNEOtPMgsGYaJ30nFXk

We came to the current text:
   DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, is not
   expected to directly raise any new privacy considerations, the
   generic considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular,
   such markings allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select
   particular types of flow for more detailed inspection.


Flow ID and associated QoS is not a new concept introduced by DetNet; therefore, does not expected to raise new concerns.

What specific further changes do you suggest to this text?
 
Given your exchange with Benjamin and the email today from Stewart, I would suggest:
 
DetNet provides a Quality of Service (QoS) mechanism, and the generic
   considerations for such mechanisms apply.  In particular, such markings
   allow for an attacker to correlate flows or to select particular types
   of flow for more detailed inspection.
 
My point is that the architecture does not actually forbid the possibility of adding additional information into DetNet packets that could be used as vectors for tracking/correlation. This change would also address my concern about the OAM piece, but if you or the WG want to pursue further edits regarding OAM given Greg’s mail I’m happy to review.
 
Best,
Alissa




 
This edit also doesn’t seem to cover the potential for additional privacy exposure implied by the discussion of OAM in Section 4.1.1:
Thank you for making clear that this is the text you mean under "novel flow IDs and OAM tags" below. It was not clear to me because the architecture document does not contain either new / novel   Flow ID / OAM tag.


 
"OAM can involve specific tagging added in the packets for tracing implementation or
   network configuration errors; traceability enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the
   replication, and which segment was intended for the replica.  
Active
   and hybrid OAM methods require additional bandwidth to perform fault
   management and performance monitoring of the DetNet domain.  OAM may,
   for instance, generate special test probes or add OAM information
   into the data packet.”
This was added based on https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/detnet/current/msg01577.html.

This paragraph reads to me as pretty generic text on OAM. 

What specific cahnge would you like to see made to this text?

Should we, e.g., update the first sentence of the paragraph to:
   OAM can support tracing implementation or
   network configuration errors. Traceability enables to find whether a
   packet is a replica, which DetNet relay node performed the
   replication, and which segment was intended for the replica.

?

Regards,
János




 
Thanks,
Alissa
 



I'm not sure what "references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed"?

Could you point to the text that should be changed?

Thank you!
Janos

On 2/20/2019 4:39 PM, Lou Berger wrote:
 
On 2/20/2019 10:25 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:
 


On Feb 20, 2019, at 7:17 AM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:
 
Hi Alissa,

Thanks for the comments - see below.

On 2/20/2019 9:54 AM, Alissa Cooper wrote:

Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-11: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

= Section 6 =

"DetNet is provides a Quality of Service (QoS), and as such, does not
   directly raise any new privacy considerations."

This seems like a false statement given the possibility that DetNet may require
novel flow IDs and OAM tags that create additional identification and
correlation risk beyond existing fields used to support QoS today.

Based on the other work in the WG, I think "is not expected" is more accurate than "does not". This is based on the WG solutions for the DetNet data plane using existing IP (v4 or 6) headers or MPLS labels for flow identification.
 
If that is the case then the references to new flow IDs and OAM tags should be removed from the architecture.
sounds reasonable.  Can you point to the specific offending text?
Thanks,
Lou



Would changing to "is not expected" address your concern?
 
Combined with the above removals, that would work for me.
 
Thanks,
Alissa



Thanks,

Lou



_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
 
 
 
 
 





--------------8C29FF7A98023446473E9A75-- From nobody Fri May 10 12:31:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1801200C1; Fri, 10 May 2019 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oZ86djbqVVLN; Fri, 10 May 2019 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6223F12006D; Fri, 10 May 2019 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 7044FB80E04; Fri, 10 May 2019 12:31:40 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, detnet@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 12:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8578_on_Deterministic_Networking_Use_Case?= =?utf-8?q?s?= X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 19:31:49 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8578 Title: Deterministic Networking Use Cases Author: E. Grossman, Ed. Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: May 2019 Mailbox: ethan.grossman@dolby.com Pages: 97 Characters: 227904 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-20.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8578 This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in common a need for "deterministic flows". "Deterministic" in this context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded latency, and other properties germane to the transport of time-sensitive data. These use cases differ notably in their network topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet). For each use case, this document will identify the use case, identify representative solutions used today, and describe potential improvements that DetNet can enable. 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Malis" Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 16:05:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: detnet WG Cc: "Grossman, Ethan A." Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f61f0a05888e16d8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 20:05:39 -0000 --000000000000f61f0a05888e16d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Congratulations to Ethan on his first RFC, and to the WG on its first RFC! Cheers, Andy On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:32 PM wrote: > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 8578 > > Title: Deterministic Networking Use Cases > Author: E. Grossman, Ed. > Status: Informational > Stream: IETF > Date: May 2019 > Mailbox: ethan.grossman@dolby.com > Pages: 97 > Characters: 227904 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-20.txt > > URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578 > > DOI: 10.17487/RFC8578 > > This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in > common a need for "deterministic flows". "Deterministic" in this > context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded > latency, and other properties germane to the transport of > time-sensitive data. These use cases differ notably in their network > topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad > industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet). For each use > case, this document will identify the use case, identify > representative solutions used today, and describe potential > improvements that DetNet can enable. > > This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group > of the IETF. > > > INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. > It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of > this memo is unlimited. > > This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. > To subscribe or unsubscribe, see > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist > > For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search > For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk > > Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the > author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless > specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for > unlimited distribution. > > > The RFC Editor Team > Association Management Solutions, LLC > > > --000000000000f61f0a05888e16d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Congratulations to Ethan on his first RFC, and to the WG o= n its first RFC!

Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:32 PM <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
A new Request for Comments is now availa= ble in online RFC libraries.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 8578

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Deterministic Networ= king Use Cases
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0E. Grossman, Ed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Informational
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stream:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0May 2019
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mailbox:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ethan.grossman@dolby.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 97
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Characters: 227904
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:=C2=A0 =C2=A0None

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I-D Tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-detnet-use-cas= es-20.txt

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 h= ttps://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10.17487/RFC857= 8

This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in
common a need for "deterministic flows".=C2=A0 "Deterministi= c" in this
context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded
latency, and other properties germane to the transport of
time-sensitive data.=C2=A0 These use cases differ notably in their network<= br> topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad
industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet).=C2=A0 For each use<= br> case, this document will identify the use case, identify
representative solutions used today, and describe potential
improvements that DetNet can enable.

This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group of= the IETF.


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Malis" , detnet WG Thread-Topic: RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases Thread-Index: AQHVB2u9+l7h6rcYs0qVpAKZhJZzFqZk0MVw Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 20:37:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [73.162.193.175] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 481af1ca-17f0-433b-070d-08d6d5875075 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600141)(711020)(4605104)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR06MB6024; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB6024: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 7 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0033AAD26D x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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Malis" , detnet WG Thread-Topic: RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases Thread-Index: AQHVB3A5AF1FEe/JpEqZDHMbfbvKnaZpKyGw Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:03:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.187.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C89F03BFDFMISOUT7MSGUSRDE_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-05-13_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1810050000 definitions=main-1905130103 Archived-At: Subject: Re: 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X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXTQwmFi41+hVyOrWJH5GrYzXNeoSYLzXACti8P47L0qsZbLfWz WoQtNJCIQvi+FoXHIkG1khCrXPjcHlugFv3gHyuvVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz36NTeMZlkOJgr8xE5vsTMZYnRPuutOb5klZmYl/K19VlnqHQPn9i1k6AdXJ8Kb8dR9Gby7EPdIRJi+j2JQSU= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7a53:: with SMTP id z19mr18474052otm.260.1557760479374; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: From: "Prof. Diego Dujovne" Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 11:14:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" Cc: "Grossman, Ethan A." , "Andrew G. Malis" , detnet WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004c5ac0588c66062" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:14:45 -0000 --00000000000004c5ac0588c66062 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ethan, Thank you for the hard work during the creation, development and support of this RFC. Congratulations. Regards, Diego Le lun. 13 mai 2019 =C3=A0 11:04, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A a = =C3=A9crit : > Great work Ethan! > > Congrats! > > Deborah > > > > *From:* detnet *On Behalf Of *Grossman, Ethan A= . > *Sent:* Friday, May 10, 2019 4:37 PM > *To:* Andrew G. Malis ; detnet WG > *Subject:* Re: [Detnet] RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases > > > > Thanks Andy, and thanks to all of the contributors to this document, > without whom we=E2=80=99d not have been (as Paul McCartney said). > > Best, > > Ethan (as Editor of RFC8578). > > > > *From:* Andrew G. Malis > *Sent:* Friday, May 10, 2019 1:05 PM > *To:* detnet WG > *Cc:* Grossman, Ethan A. > *Subject:* Re: RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases > > > > Congratulations to Ethan on his first RFC, and to the WG on its first RFC= ! > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:32 PM wrote: > > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 8578 > > Title: Deterministic Networking Use Cases > Author: E. Grossman, Ed. > Status: Informational > Stream: IETF > Date: May 2019 > Mailbox: ethan.grossman@dolby.com > Pages: 97 > Characters: 227904 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-20.txt > > URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578 > > > DOI: 10.17487/RFC8578 > > This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in > common a need for "deterministic flows". "Deterministic" in this > context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded > latency, and other properties germane to the transport of > time-sensitive data. These use cases differ notably in their network > topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad > industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet). For each use > case, this document will identify the use case, identify > representative solutions used today, and describe potential > improvements that DetNet can enable. > > This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group > of the IETF. > > > INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. > It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of > this memo is unlimited. > > This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. > To subscribe or unsubscribe, see > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist > > > For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search > > For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk > > > Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the > author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless > specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for > unlimited distribution. > > > The RFC Editor Team > Association Management Solutions, LLC > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --=20 DIEGO DUJOVNE Profesor Asociado Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile www.ingenieria.udp.cl (56 2) 676 8125 --00000000000004c5ac0588c66062 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ethan,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank = you for the hard work during the creation,
development and suppor= t of this RFC.=C2=A0
Congratulations.
Regards,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Diego=C2=A0

Le=C2=A0lun. 13 m= ai 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A011:04, BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <db3546@att.com> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

Great work Ethan!

Congrats!

Deborah

=C2=A0

From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Beha= lf Of Grossman, Ethan A.
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 4:37 PM
To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>; detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Detnet] RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases=

=C2=A0

Thanks Andy, and thanks to all of the contributors t= o this document, without whom we=E2=80=99d not have been (as Paul McCartney= said).

Best,

Ethan (as Editor of RFC8578).

=C2=A0

From: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 1:05 PM
To: detnet WG <detnet@ietf.org>
Cc: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Subject: Re: RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases

=C2=A0

Congratulations to Ethan on his first RFC, and to th= e WG on its first RFC!

=C2=A0

Cheers,

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:32 PM <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:

A new Request for Comme= nts is now available in online RFC libraries.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 8578

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Deterministic Networ= king Use Cases
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0E. Grossman, Ed.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Informational
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stream:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IETF
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0May 2019
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mailbox:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ethan.grossman@dolby.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 97
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Characters: 227904
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:=C2=A0 =C2=A0None

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I-D Tag:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-detnet-use-cas= es-20.txt

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 DOI:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10.17487/RFC857= 8

This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in
common a need for "deterministic flows".=C2=A0 "Deterministi= c" in this
context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded
latency, and other properties germane to the transport of
time-sensitive data.=C2=A0 These use cases differ notably in their network<= br> topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad
industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet).=C2=A0 For each use<= br> case, this document will identify the use case, identify
representative solutions used today, and describe potential
improvements that DetNet can enable.

This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group of= the IETF.


INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.

This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists.
To subscribe or unsubscribe, see
=C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
=C2=A0 https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist

For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search
For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk

Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org.=C2=A0 Unless
specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
unlimited distribution.


The RFC Editor Team
Association Management Solutions, LLC

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet


--
DIEG= O DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunic= aciones
Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile=
www.ingenier= ia.udp.cl
(56 2) 676 8125
--00000000000004c5ac0588c66062-- From nobody Mon May 13 08:33:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7758C120128 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:33:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lwxEyAV7XjJB for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1F8E120148 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:33:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1557761613; x=1560353613; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=u8Nj/jAMps48EWTtBihDmYlC51UOP0MYzkBcHdas1Vc=; b=fv5anhf7TKFMzAnUYGgZkPRi4iPTUlsip+18aUuRlxE2vqok4Ajs0066CUFr3ZD2 CjV/mwMIIeCvCDd/j5Ja7qN/fzD82/9gULI89v7QTtW+XOuMe8phOF17g2hQGgGX 3mrYMJqEtVpHYUdZlkrGHUedj2U4V6eJSq4YmLyCA30=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-6f5ff70000001814-16-5cd98e4d77c6 Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.119]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id AE.65.06164.D4E89DC5; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:33:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) by ESESSMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.162) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:33:33 +0200 Received: from [131.160.183.139] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.189) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:33:33 +0200 To: "Grossman, Ethan A." References: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> CC: DetNet WG From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a1nos_Farkas?= Message-ID: <6ef852c9-424b-8997-7640-b16ba658de27@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 17:33:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190510193140.7044FB80E04@rfc-editor.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ua5v380YgxsfrS1+f5rNYtH3eDu7 A5PHvolHWDyWLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJUx8eMZ9oJ9QhVfX81kaWDs5Oti5OSQEDCR WH12PQuILSRwlFHiWAdvFyMXkP2NUeLB3YmsEM4xRomdl1+BVQkLWEucurAfyObgEBHQljh+ 2gKi2Vxi1+bVTCA2s4C8xOvVf5lBbDYBe4m7lzaA2bxA9rbri5lAWlkEVCVu3rADCYsKxEp8 urIYqkRQ4uTMJ2CbOAUsJPputbFAjLSQmDn/PCPM+O1v5zBD2OISt57MZ4I4QU3i09uH7BMY hWYhGTULSfssJO2zkLQvYGRZxShanFqclJtuZKSXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiREY3Ae3/DbYwfjy ueMhRgEORiUeXt/WmzFCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHijFG/ECPGmJFZWpRblxxeV5qQWH2KU5mBR EueNXr0nRkggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCbLxMEp1cDY+33Ozd3bH8w+d1tn3+SCZiMVbaaLRxcLt3tr yMdzPxZ08ut5K5b9Wuy4aGK/05UrxwTXsUzeelFHd6XFvS28zqxK197UCWbVlvH1XxSQaxCR FlbKffmw3V5rA9/M+lcXoq8e7d18j91PTfXWmueyGtc/rtSp2mr95MSLKV+0tSaunDv/Sugh JZbijERDLeai4kQAMMPniWoCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] RFC 8578 on Deterministic Networking Use Cases X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:33:51 -0000 Hi Ethan, Great job! Thank you, Janos On 5/10/2019 9:31 PM, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote: > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 8578 > > Title: Deterministic Networking Use Cases > Author: E. Grossman, Ed. > Status: Informational > Stream: IETF > Date: May 2019 > Mailbox: ethan.grossman@dolby.com > Pages: 97 > Characters: 227904 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases-20.txt > > URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8578 > > DOI: 10.17487/RFC8578 > > This document presents use cases for diverse industries that have in > common a need for "deterministic flows". "Deterministic" in this > context means that such flows provide guaranteed bandwidth, bounded > latency, and other properties germane to the transport of > time-sensitive data. These use cases differ notably in their network > topologies and specific desired behavior, providing as a group broad > industry context for Deterministic Networking (DetNet). For each use > case, this document will identify the use case, identify > representative solutions used today, and describe potential > improvements that DetNet can enable. > > This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group of the IETF. > > > INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. > It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of > this memo is unlimited. > > This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. > To subscribe or unsubscribe, see > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist > > For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search > For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk > > Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the > author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless > specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for > unlimited distribution. > > > The RFC Editor Team > Association Management Solutions, LLC > > From nobody Mon May 13 08:51:18 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1CB1120044; Mon, 13 May 2019 08:51:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , lberger@labn.net, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-architecture@ietf.org, Lou Berger , detnet@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <155776266765.23725.2644279980376264304.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 08:51:07 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Protocol Action: 'Deterministic Networking Architecture' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt) X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 15:51:08 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Deterministic Networking Architecture' (draft-ietf-detnet-architecture-13.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Martin Vigoureux and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-architecture/ Technical Summary This document provides the overall architecture for Deterministic Networking (DetNet), which provides a capability to carry specified unicast or multicast data flows for real-time applications with extremely low data loss rates and bounded latency within a network domain. Working Group Summary Nothing particular worth noting. Document Quality The document is the foundation for other DetNet WG activities. It has been reviewed and discussed by many, including the WG technical advisor who is also TSV WG co-chair. Multiple organizations have stated that they are working on developing DetNet solutions and early solutions based on the principles described in this document have been demonstrated. Personnel Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Lou Berger Who is the Responsible Area Director? 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR0702MB3807; H:VI1PR0702MB3790.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9SLvLRcguURehCsAav44KSfT3z5ghIemWbycZNDn3sqALf5n+7wSu9iiWRjNst2teyzJgquUDMo2t4fN+27x8puvU5sLQUQFw+NxncuIWWMrhNiDZJdI56z9rbg5KonH0aZ5kOIp4G162dwd0d01cyrH+UtqMLm+EmAzmDvsLuHaV0M0MHOvwNstncWZZklXiDzyatVytso2TtYSl9qs+lA4eAJCSILaAxIL8t4z/WQ806kj6ykhsbZYsnicwf6RCTAwJkvVRdBwdq2V9uRLZWfjsUUoVGTPlhOX0RRM9NZAJmt4RL+FEwfTqllKBTMhR5tW0q9nhbK0VvhFBkD206jAN8z5UyWRexxwrgNYgSm9cL0thMjXNGaxMI2zrDH4WB+Ci5QUx1rk2hxWJvl/jOLTbmmLDTrEoFN17wAuVIM= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_VI1PR0702MB37905E81A97388508109BC12AC060VI1PR0702MB3790_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4bcc773d-8c23-41be-1e53-08d6dd36abcd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 May 2019 15:20:19.9243 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0702MB3807 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 15:20:25 -0000 --_000_VI1PR0702MB37905E81A97388508109BC12AC060VI1PR0702MB3790_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the workgroup las= t call. OAM section is intended to be removed from the "DetNet Data Plane: IP" docu= ment. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ Any objections? Cheers Bala'zs --_000_VI1PR0702MB37905E81A97388508109BC12AC060VI1PR0702MB3790_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Data plane documents are under review to prepare the= m for the workgroup last call.

OAM section is intended to be removed from the ̶= 0;DetNet Data Plane: IP” document.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/

 

Any objections?

 

Cheers

Bala’zs

 

--_000_VI1PR0702MB37905E81A97388508109BC12AC060VI1PR0702MB3790_-- From nobody Mon May 20 09:55:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E463F1200F9 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SzPUqc6k_Wjl for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B29FB12004C for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id d10so9269185qko.4 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:54:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nFxKP2IcJOqiJVQgDPnSCvfR+W83DzC2e9imnJVV4Ns=; b=Q8VEl60FzPysrbt3vFt5K9L7VJlB3x2fZhQLahpM5frG6gIINC1IHAnCh2yH/bz0cU JZK3kQSXfkTVMJXXeQvV80DsseU2WuEgLr3CBP0L16uNVZ3rFk4v0gI4SrBvLJxkn6No nv5jMviTE4TUb1lCNw/hnfWZL0g1sTjsPm8AfylU/7ZaxdAoyblmLolvECbRojzYjOQV S+mE+NuBntDJb0EV1tWaWaB5wKK4oK2IeZSZIr5dFB4vRceQreAa1BkbU71hXcGljC9u feYMpdbYfjwvRPskL8HR6y5y3dYwK9GZcc2E+2C6AUphN4aZiKT/pHN2DqD93tN8Db2p 6ctA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nFxKP2IcJOqiJVQgDPnSCvfR+W83DzC2e9imnJVV4Ns=; b=htJqou2OYE8zhAHDvv9iQqDR11fV8uh6MTtZxjfPA7QpHwiOZXAvsOFmBS8JiMWjiO NMeASRdUIjehTGG8jrJDiYRDXWkrQsSep6KiVvpCobMPgkoAH8IwNzhJgUXjapZWnOCS 4p5zBwavcCGiBQi6sqki8+OpHCGlMjP8vNKJrIbFvABx5Z0shd9IpnW7wdL8nZB+9mud VhnJKmFp0b109XPJf8o0E8aiz7luIgO5dqPPumw2F7k6MQaB1gJHKtXde7F3E3clDnTH ruIUTvdLye9ryD1zaihWfUKkOYrhvchQXeBJvPiiL3X8uZ7Yp+OdDc1svO73Dr8iAB9R +zpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWfF/F9lXRxNnBH33534/xqfBNTZ0X6Et5+jYYeY0LPTRvdzGBl iD5fekTkHmSXSrT2faLMuCseIUOqjHt9NF19sSo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzH8qX6TGDbTkw25oHh789toaKsmm2/UXpmcphOKUJ2nVDGV/pW3Oi4LFA2tzzf5N2CID9fY1q9HyxsNe1wYrc= X-Received: by 2002:a37:e506:: with SMTP id e6mr51572478qkg.229.1558371296737; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 12:54:45 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091fe35058954976a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 16:55:00 -0000 --00000000000091fe35058954976a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bal=C3=A1zs, Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. Cheers, Andy On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A wrote: > Hi, > > > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the workgroup > last call. > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data Plane= : IP=E2=80=9D > document. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/ > > > > Any objections? > > > > Cheers > > Bala=E2=80=99zs > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --00000000000091fe35058954976a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bal=C3=A1zs,

Sounds good, it's just= a placeholder right now.

Cheers,
Andy


On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <= ;balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com= > wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

Data plane documents are under review to prepare the= m for the workgroup last call.

OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2= =80=9CDetNet Data Plane: IP=E2=80=9D document.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet= f-detnet-ip/

=C2=A0

Any objections?

=C2=A0

Cheers

Bala=E2=80=99zs

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
--00000000000091fe35058954976a-- From nobody Mon May 20 23:54:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F04120021 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 23:54:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jaxw38eGEsS9 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 23:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F95712012F for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 23:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (unknown [119.94.160.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C776833F5AF; Tue, 21 May 2019 08:54:00 +0200 (CEST) To: "Andrew G. Malis" , =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=c3=a1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" References: From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 14:53:57 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 06:54:08 -0000 Bala’zs and Andy, I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane documents. The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific data planes, do we paln separate documents?? /Loa On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > Balázs, > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. > > Cheers, > Andy > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Balázs Varga A > > wrote: > > Hi,____ > > __ __ > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the > workgroup last call.____ > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the “DetNet Data Plane: > IP” document.____ > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ > > __ __ > > Any objections?____ > > __ __ > > Cheers____ > > Bala’zs____ > > __ __ > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Tue May 21 01:43:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD7512007C for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 01:43:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.032 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.032 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T1HaeRspq4nV for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 01:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr140073.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.14.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADD24120048 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 01:43:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=OsvosRHgwARaR7f0/Y+JVGlm5xRX7THLzqEMc7hpgRE=; b=SGIB0LCOdPtjKHvDrWTqVlgR07+mHjW4uTFijg37cqiauXxQsqo8CcT78A0SjTSFuBXdl+o3oOpu/Uj0GbXNQKImp5jMxed+vulkBwbPjmCxxE47NX5wXaTBTgKYStfVqeH70MW0EYHUJGxOSuh70ugCP5HEWHzwUf9CtqLDL6A= Received: from VI1PR0702MB3790.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.2.11) by VI1PR0702MB3821.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.2.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1922.9; Tue, 21 May 2019 08:43:28 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0702MB3790.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9099:1d93:e82a:86c8]) by VI1PR0702MB3790.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9099:1d93:e82a:86c8%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1922.013; Tue, 21 May 2019 08:43:28 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBWYXJnYSBB?= To: Loa Andersson , "Andrew G. 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Tue, 21 May 2019 06:22:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 09:22:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: Loa Andersson , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fbed5b058965be8b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 13:22:56 -0000 --000000000000fbed5b058965be8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Loa, Also note that we were only discussion one particular data plane document (IP), not all of them. For example, there's quite a bit of discussion about OAM in the MPLS data plane draft. Cheers, Andy On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A wrote: > Hi Loa, > > We have a dedicated OAM document: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 > > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ > > Cheers > Bala'zs > > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM > To: Andrew G. Malis ; Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A < > balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> > Cc: detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section > > Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy, > > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane documents. > > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific data > planes, do we paln separate documents?? > > /Loa > > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Bal=C3=A1zs, > > > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi,____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the > > workgroup last call.____ > > > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data= Plane: > > IP=E2=80=9D document.____ > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Any objections?____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Cheers____ > > > > Bala=E2=80=99zs____ > > > > __ __ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --000000000000fbed5b058965be8b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Loa,

Also note that we were only discus= sion one particular data plane document (IP), not all of them. For example,= there's quite a bit of discussion about OAM in the MPLS data plane dra= ft.

Cheers,
Andy


On = Tue, May 21, 2019 at 4:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Loa,

We have a dedicated OAM document:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detne= t-oam-02

Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--(((
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/docume= nts/

Cheers
Bala'zs

-----Original Message-----
From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>; Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>
Cc: detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section

Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy,

I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane documents.
The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific data pl= anes, do we paln separate documents??

/Loa

On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Bal=C3=A1zs,
>
> Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A
> <b= alazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>> wro= te:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Data plane documents are under review to prepare th= em for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0workgroup last call.____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2= =80=9CDetNet Data Plane:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP=E2=80=9D document.____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections?____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pho= ne: +46 739 81 21 64

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--000000000000fbed5b058965be8b-- From nobody Tue May 21 10:39:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A838A1200F9 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kXj1OWnn-P0l for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9D031200D5 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id q62so7136904ljq.7 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0HVxvGagZ2up1ok6LSWC4yRHk6Ro+V97QXIAW0L4co0=; b=LhHFOemrSLZSpxtbpuLiV0jEwJpG2s2x4ewzlou23tDJoxEXUqEc2j8xJgqDvj8gfK pMWUuW9NIXdHdHVRTvLIpHW+ks75w0cM7D8mDy/Q8vtAGgki/NwO6E2dlRohngWFvSVj m7p8zeyurEAkhn2TwMm9nc95oOQgMVrwCNW1r6vn1OuuV473glxCJUDkAEizQBoydkoT NiSxyGPCaYvd81VNmEmSYK9DgEJMclhP/PaSyjimm3Nk+UWXCKKEzAp1Hj94EpG7tUCD luOJmLjD6NucDQIfffWf+AHLaeXmdkVllU594IsLA9Er46N/dCKz3pH7LSqvZjJ+XDLU y2CQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0HVxvGagZ2up1ok6LSWC4yRHk6Ro+V97QXIAW0L4co0=; b=Hb/e939AzISwCrQl8kcIIXBCpAYbL/Fh1giuRt+nX9WxXWWUrqm9k97TiUU2pqGqmW GRGaXsG5lD/kEcYxOX1LL8PkzbZarbTDKc857OtTfx3tF+NJubGmF/Y6ZXxNg3Q/9FkQ tXuuM9TWQmEQ7+AK5v1pTka05dsfZYnAPPbW6veZS2m4HsJZ7Ov5pXHHyjtk7aAhx+hu 2bCwoouziDxRAtbD3rd4Op40wSs3FNIxxgfORJonB0YRuY+mMf9teE6f3drFnJ7aK59m Cv3grQKWo1tJa9fRgHYzrkk/hWRwY+YVK68RXzzb16vTB4Ze2Z6n46x6DzgzHuZR6e3s a/YQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWn9xwIxyFZyVFEVkYHwFmsZzciWmCv4tm4Mnz5U326wKI7ngeu cQkP9RPC4qEsB5NBVa4RcUZrGhkQZKp/CBEal5c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyK985+GMmbKVe6FDTWRWTCRDyhr2YlQpsKdgYvSKyCMu9zEf+4r4c1Z/QGmEh1CtURsLuhbMr15XwWO8I4m1U= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:818b:: with SMTP id e11mr41980703ljg.82.1558460360922; Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 10:39:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: Loa Andersson , "Andrew G. Malis" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000359b290589695442" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 17:39:26 -0000 --000000000000359b290589695442 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Balazs, thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it would be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation and co-authors. Regards, Greg On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A wrote: > Hi Loa, > > We have a dedicated OAM document: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 > > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ > > Cheers > Bala'zs > > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM > To: Andrew G. Malis ; Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A < > balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> > Cc: detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section > > Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy, > > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane documents. > > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific data > planes, do we paln separate documents?? > > /Loa > > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Bal=C3=A1zs, > > > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi,____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the > > workgroup last call.____ > > > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data= Plane: > > IP=E2=80=9D document.____ > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Any objections?____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Cheers____ > > > > Bala=E2=80=99zs____ > > > > __ __ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --000000000000359b290589695442 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Balazs,
thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNe= t draft. It lapsed and that may be why is not showing up among other DetNet= documents. Mach and I will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plan= e. I think it would be good to use this document for discussion, the defini= tion of OAM for DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome co= operation and co-authors.

Regards,
Greg<= /div>

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> wrote:=
Hi Loa,

We have a dedicated OAM document:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detne= t-oam-02

Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--(((
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/docume= nts/

Cheers
Bala'zs

-----Original Message-----
From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM
To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com>; Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>
Cc: detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section

Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy,

I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane documents.
The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific data pl= anes, do we paln separate documents??

/Loa

On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
> Bal=C3=A1zs,
>
> Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy
>
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A
> <b= alazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>> wro= te:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Data plane documents are under review to prepare th= em for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0workgroup last call.____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2= =80=9CDetNet Data Plane:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP=E2=80=9D document.____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections?____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs____
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pho= ne: +46 739 81 21 64

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
--000000000000359b290589695442-- From nobody Tue May 21 20:16:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4108B12010C; Tue, 21 May 2019 20:15:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CaM2fyhPRij7; Tue, 21 May 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A07A3120072; Tue, 21 May 2019 20:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 1DBE6B82174; Tue, 21 May 2019 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, detnet@ietf.org Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190522031532.1DBE6B82174@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] =?utf-8?q?RFC_8557_on_Deterministic_Networking_Problem_?= =?utf-8?q?Statement?= X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 03:15:55 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8557 Title: Deterministic Networking Problem Statement Author: N. Finn, P. Thubert Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: May 2019 Mailbox: norman.finn@mail01.huawei.com, pthubert@cisco.com Pages: 11 Characters: 25159 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-detnet-problem-statement-09.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8557 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8557 This paper documents the needs in various industries to establish multi-hop paths for characterized flows with deterministic properties. This document is a product of the Deterministic Networking Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Tue May 21 23:11:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BC612008B for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 23:11:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qgfLu00x5Mkt for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 23:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F335120074 for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 23:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.13] (unknown [119.94.160.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A312333F5AF; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:10:53 +0200 (CEST) To: Greg Mirsky , =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=c3=a1zs_Varga_A?= Cc: "detnet@ietf.org" , "Andrew G. Malis" References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> From: Loa Andersson Message-ID: <760c258a-a8ea-583a-7648-4256b2b34a48@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 14:10:47 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 06:11:00 -0000 Bala'zs, The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page. Normally that is a sign that the interest is not that high. Andy, Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that. Greg, Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay. All, Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. I see two alternatives First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything. Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky. I have a slight preference for the second alternative. But make it a wg decision. /Loa On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Balazs, > thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that > may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I > will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it would > be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for > DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation and > co-authors. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Balázs Varga A > > wrote: > > Hi Loa, > > We have a dedicated OAM document: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 > > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ > > Cheers > Bala'zs > > -----Original Message----- > From: detnet > On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM > To: Andrew G. Malis >; > Balázs Varga A > > Cc: detnet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section > > Bala’zs and Andy, > > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane > documents. > > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific > data planes, do we paln separate documents?? > > /Loa > > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > Balázs, > > > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. > > > > Cheers, > > Andy > > > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Balázs Varga A > > > >> wrote: > > > >     Hi,____ > > > >     __ __ > > > >     Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for the > >     workgroup last call.____ > > > >     OAM section is intended to be removed from the “DetNet Data > Plane: > >     IP” document.____ > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ > > > >     __ __ > > > >     Any objections?____ > > > >     __ __ > > > >     Cheers____ > > > >     Bala’zs____ > > > >     __ __ > > > >     _______________________________________________ > >     detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu Senior MPLS Expert Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From nobody Wed May 22 07:23:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B4D3120046 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VB6cPHo9nyK6 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A55E12004F for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id m15so2245315ljg.13 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tVpxJian4v2XcRqQ/vDjcJOIZpH1rOo1cyqjlUTSpeY=; b=bykQw2FA57ELRJWX1mdGkY0EwD2gQTWWQX4uhyw2LHqosxaWyjvuhhB8qx4Gnr0JeV iB+fcbumJ4OG37TCf718OvXiv81aCPNcEsV9cH7AlJhfgbYPzrI7rcXa4e0txzN1iiwU YAHyYxD6qK6u3RYFZeijysuiykfMPkeEpXG8DXbRF+Wz2tfYsNER8r2yg/wsfuI6D3NP Iih/sUrxATnSHZVya2iJRnJ/JEfsODjgFgHSPzA9RS3J81z7UeKXGsi1wzOpJ95zl2l5 Wtcy782xQXqHfZrHwsR0fFaPpT1BgrTunVnkV1tAIOyS/ymaWpcjC8mV8AYRSsuZrvQA 3viA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tVpxJian4v2XcRqQ/vDjcJOIZpH1rOo1cyqjlUTSpeY=; b=Lq5Sdxh6c9HKbIwoK0BcjyriZyq+Ie+ilRGaUo4bBvetCl4BSuV5r8kDc0Tx9AUWQ9 1OpvV6XkgFTJ5+TZXHFkVQPf9v51zVQqJyX+jXDX5TYFF23SXiXe5bUVX5Amf/LsuUKY +B19Qfbi4mbIbS+4vLrZEb/3KcebhSkJqeU/BEZtKDLlf4yg366mlAYHidvbj3TzPHnd t3gfuSs0bcVlZnv3upYTQePGJ+HD9k2ET1cXIsOkv+h2xsxkSzDYz7pFyXplgarsVBQZ LOiTx74Qus2YHwzNpOLDHITZ7onuDl0Eybhnc7LXyaNlasnWq0Uo9XlbL5lVoFyISRbU EIpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVHEtzseTDmG32Bq2DTp2a1yv7SoWxbsroZlFmmSZg7ezqed1S2 ONBB84fI9+skLVJCUbPRP+VO6iM1LePGbJCo/5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyA77XRd96TR+3iHbiKPrNAUAs7x1VAGAePdTR0q8Hl7q1sN+KDGD5upgQ8Fqtv2lZU2tNcNuVTPsyP2mb18oI= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2f03:: with SMTP id v3mr7475596ljv.6.1558535003424; Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> <760c258a-a8ea-583a-7648-4256b2b34a48@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <760c258a-a8ea-583a-7648-4256b2b34a48@pi.nu> From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 07:23:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= , "detnet@ietf.org" , "Andrew G. Malis" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003fccd405897ab555" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 14:23:28 -0000 --0000000000003fccd405897ab555 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Loa, thank you for your suggestion. Will revive the draft today. And I agree with your suggestion to discuss whether we want to have one draft for DetNet OAM over all possible variants of the data plane. Best regards, Greg On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson wrote: > Bala'zs, > > The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page. > Normally that is a sign that the interest is not that high. > > Andy, > > Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for > the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I > asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. > What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on > IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that. > > Greg, > > Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it > active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both > MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay. > > All, > > Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. > I see two alternatives > > First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything. > > Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for > DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky. > > I have a slight preference for the second alternative. > > But make it a wg decision. > > /Loa > > On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote: > > Hi Balazs, > > thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that > > may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I > > will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it would > > be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for > > DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation an= d > > co-authors. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Loa, > > > > We have a dedicated OAM document: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 > > > > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ > > > > Cheers > > Bala'zs > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: detnet > > On Behalf Of Loa Andersson > > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM > > To: Andrew G. Malis >; > > Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > > Cc: detnet@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section > > > > Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy, > > > > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane > > documents. > > > > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specific > > data planes, do we paln separate documents?? > > > > /Loa > > > > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > > > Bal=C3=A1zs, > > > > > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > Hi,____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for th= e > > > workgroup last call.____ > > > > > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetN= et Data > > Plane: > > > IP=E2=80=9D document.____ > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Any objections?____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Cheers____ > > > > > > Bala=E2=80=99zs____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > detnet mailing list > > > detnet@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > detnet mailing list > > > detnet@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu loa@pi.nu> > > Senior MPLS Expert > > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > detnet mailing list > > detnet@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > Senior MPLS Expert > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > --0000000000003fccd405897ab555 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Loa,
thank you for your suggestion. Will revive the= draft today.
And I agree with your suggestion to discuss whether= we want to have one draft for DetNet OAM over all possible variants of the= data plane.

Best regards,
Greg

On = Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Bala'zs,

The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page.
Normally=C2=A0 that is a sign that the interest is not that high.

Andy,

Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for
the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I
asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on
IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that.

Greg,

Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it
active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both
MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay.

All,

Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. I see two alternatives

First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything.

Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for
DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky.

I have a slight preference for the second alternative.

But make it a wg decision.

/Loa

On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Balazs,
> thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that=
> may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I =
> will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it woul= d
> be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for=
> DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation a= nd
> co-authors.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A
> <b= alazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>> wro= te:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Loa,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0We have a dedicated OAM document:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents= :--(((
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf= .org/group/detnet/documents/
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala'zs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Loa A= ndersson
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no problem removing the OAM section from the= data plane
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0documents.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The question I have is what do we do about the OAM = for the specific
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data planes, do we paln separate documents??
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/Loa
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Bal=C3=A1zs,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder righ= t now.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Cheers,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Andy
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs = Varga A
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@er= icsson.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Data plane documents are u= nder review to prepare them for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0workgroup last call.____ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM section is intended to= be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Plane:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP=E2=80=9D document.____<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections?____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__________________________= _____________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org> <mailto:detnet@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet@ietf.org>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________________= __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Senior MPLS Expert
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pho= ne: +46 739 81 21 64
--0000000000003fccd405897ab555-- From nobody Wed May 22 08:20:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0F61201A2 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kEBZSaQN9HO for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BCC21201C9 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id h1so2842443qtp.1 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:20:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GOk4wIS0RAKnIfnpiX6SSChuhgGPcSxg7P90vdD9lAQ=; b=gjFCDLyYzm0NSmdhJG03CzJwRizh3y4UsOxbv5xE1YExYrrllBVHHTlw17fxY9CSI1 0MW4euvjCpbHSwDGWnw6GKjBgypHtm97ANfnRWBRdMs2pXZHB1Rnf1rc+/4zgwWD4gNo xPV72UT/eeMBzfTtOyP9YCIktRGrZ7kwnBoDq4VWuWNTw2jgzheSG7bYUz1yZQ5GQ9P8 F1RHVCq+V6t5OA7B31qXoMvH1LnF7AIUbz4wCpdU1dYSDN4FbSkF5de1zxaTrdS3oIen ncSx9V7FtOOsWnyV+TE+fK3W0tjqzs4byZcZBo9fmGigs756oIexxVua9actYTmS7/PM T7qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GOk4wIS0RAKnIfnpiX6SSChuhgGPcSxg7P90vdD9lAQ=; b=I2oScCwVHbCylrZ3FFNu2vTxbu4L9HL5YVnVSAdBPtFroEFmEnOEjrY0L/gsj4tvRn NnuRiFUCLCJ8/Lwg9P6n47/I7eGCQaUO3Gsi60piWPb6//NI4lgpKi+7dcz6IaKDDHGU EDjx/HHUs/HJdv86WGBV1FMZQTNTTaHwXD2srw6qOiP5LizL5CtlgmzIj9OxHDmAisq9 FNvLfx+HLHWlxvbQr3Dye6ZvtHbyYotkLktTQEozMhfSVoF0DeqIs39RW8ewScl5OkI+ wNil2KHDXldMlJ5nAMYP14dyPKhvnFWBZ0lNVWfGvaM2kvxmfYg36y0f5ZimfgOy9MnZ ucHA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWzv4G8dOCNK7m5juDeS4POib08cSiwhmU2pcwE3G99rM7mFyA3 eEybvuVlCnRAp2il5DSb3Op/vDkhIiCDhjPoX7Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxB4xKLSIJeDZGBkADnWbnWGSfd76CCawuKxlzQzjfjv7yPEz1s/g2uU4UDfHRnDsZSI5sT0hVRoEwC0tBLhcE= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3973:: with SMTP id t48mr74250003qtb.121.1558538417471; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:20:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> <760c258a-a8ea-583a-7648-4256b2b34a48@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 11:20:06 -0400 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Loa Andersson , =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be080005897b808a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 15:20:29 -0000 --000000000000be080005897b808a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, As the data plane drafts have been separated to focus on each of the individual data planes, that may be the best course of action for the OAM drafts as well. If it turns out that there's a reasonable amount of material that's common between the two, then there can also be a third OAM Framework draft with the common material, again mirroring the data plane drafts. Just a thought. Cheers, Andy On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 10:23 AM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Loa, > thank you for your suggestion. Will revive the draft today. > And I agree with your suggestion to discuss whether we want to have one > draft for DetNet OAM over all possible variants of the data plane. > > Best regards, > Greg > > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson wrote: > >> Bala'zs, >> >> The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page. >> Normally that is a sign that the interest is not that high. >> >> Andy, >> >> Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for >> the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I >> asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. >> What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on >> IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that. >> >> Greg, >> >> Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it >> active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both >> MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay. >> >> All, >> >> Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. >> I see two alternatives >> >> First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything. >> >> Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for >> DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky. >> >> I have a slight preference for the second alternative. >> >> But make it a wg decision. >> >> /Loa >> >> On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote: >> > Hi Balazs, >> > thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that >> > may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I >> > will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it woul= d >> > be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for >> > DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation >> and >> > co-authors. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Greg >> > >> > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A >> > > >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Loa, >> > >> > We have a dedicated OAM document: >> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 >> > >> > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ >> > >> > Cheers >> > Bala'zs >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: detnet > > > On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM >> > To: Andrew G. Malis >= ; >> > Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A > > > >> > Cc: detnet@ietf.org >> > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section >> > >> > Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy, >> > >> > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane >> > documents. >> > >> > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specifi= c >> > data planes, do we paln separate documents?? >> > >> > /Loa >> > >> > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >> > > Bal=C3=A1zs, >> > > >> > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Andy >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A >> > > > > >> > > > >> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi,____ >> > > >> > > __ __ >> > > >> > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for t= he >> > > workgroup last call.____ >> > > >> > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDet= Net Data >> > Plane: >> > > IP=E2=80=9D document.____ >> > > >> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ >> > > >> > > __ __ >> > > >> > > Any objections?____ >> > > >> > > __ __ >> > > >> > > Cheers____ >> > > >> > > Bala=E2=80=99zs____ >> > > >> > > __ __ >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > detnet mailing list >> > > detnet@ietf.org > > > >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > detnet mailing list >> > > detnet@ietf.org >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu > loa@pi.nu> >> > Senior MPLS Expert >> > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > detnet mailing list >> > detnet@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > _______________________________________________ >> > detnet mailing list >> > detnet@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > detnet mailing list >> > detnet@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu >> Senior MPLS Expert >> Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> > --000000000000be080005897b808a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg,

As the data plane drafts have bee= n separated to focus on each of the individual data planes, that may be the= best course of action for the OAM drafts as well. If it turns out that the= re's a reasonable amount of material that's common between the two,= then there can also be a third OAM Framework draft with the common materia= l, again mirroring the data plane drafts. Just=C2=A0a thought.
Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, May 22, 201= 9 at 10:23 AM Greg Mirsky <greg= imirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Loa,
thank you for your suggestion= . Will revive the draft today.
And I agree with your suggestion t= o discuss whether we want to have one draft for DetNet OAM over all possibl= e variants of the data plane.

Best regards,
<= div>Greg

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Bala'zs,

The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page.
Normally=C2=A0 that is a sign that the interest is not that high.

Andy,

Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for
the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I
asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on
IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that.

Greg,

Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it
active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both
MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay.

All,

Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. I see two alternatives

First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything.

Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for
DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky.

I have a slight preference for the second alternative.

But make it a wg decision.

/Loa

On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Balazs,
> thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that=
> may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I =
> will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it woul= d
> be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for=
> DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation a= nd
> co-authors.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A
> <b= alazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>> wro= te:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Loa,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0We have a dedicated OAM document:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents= :--(((
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf= .org/group/detnet/documents/
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala'zs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Loa A= ndersson
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no problem removing the OAM section from the= data plane
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0documents.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The question I have is what do we do about the OAM = for the specific
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data planes, do we paln separate documents??
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/Loa
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Bal=C3=A1zs,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder righ= t now.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Cheers,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Andy
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs = Varga A
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@er= icsson.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Data plane documents are u= nder review to prepare them for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0workgroup last call.____ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM section is intended to= be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Plane:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP=E2=80=9D document.____<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections?____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__________________________= _____________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org> <mailto:detnet@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet@ietf.org>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________________= __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Senior MPLS Expert
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pho= ne: +46 739 81 21 64
--000000000000be080005897b808a-- From nobody Wed May 22 08:35:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECCF12004F for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gt5oac3xvZWp for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30B9D120146 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id e13so2495112ljl.11 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=L5Hj2vJrgyDGr55DUb73gf9aJkPNDMvqbjFMlq5NrsA=; b=FnVJ078NbuwYYtPDcJ/C4WAlOl7ld/1Z/ZP9LorC92vTRZmeL9E4GkSwDn1QCJivFI AYe/OrDH/QqIUgckycJ+q8yg3T0OYZA2Uz2T1hVxkUL0dFUDOdQABhWXmJMXVlLi5G9s /PhSaE0U19qu9TEQSTEL3m2Xy0FYyHHPyaMmkzCcaZPIZ9n7yP6Fuh4F8kOCAz649onN lw52baMUL1Zrqr6JUFIA3T+C00MOQoOl4EfmOY8wKRsMv8A3qjB624m92XVMDFlh+sWd dUI+0jIVYVrDh+rwdiOldiSnl+FyDFEC94FUeXIMdH+l3SWrP/Yu3lsX+G46apQzSNUk +Fjg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L5Hj2vJrgyDGr55DUb73gf9aJkPNDMvqbjFMlq5NrsA=; b=If0hhzpkkAfvkBd+6fc7LD4nQv5VSkaCxOxuZFgCGh/TRpRuFNM8akA/iAQv8pY+Ci J2jj7ET7GbVC+GZzDGgEoilZFzVl3bIUIXE0RxE0kSzMwM5r51OL158y5wTjDdUF32eX qxWGN4yF7oRZW9pEgSpTibBGfQtwV2j1E5VO2gHGYxB1ioUIhZzKZ3KwCIy3EUDF7ToV h4d1GPVotRpFjRV+Vl3YmowGa/KWPB4vzIhtQwPNmtNeIRsFWvu03z1b3JhVh7dLkL1s HNhTI688qo9zZnHUX17F1Aj3ii3NiJW8xY5/Kbwyo5redZiYqdGebtNdwTmRUNx2VmrW ajyg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVD/FJjJFbVOS/Ho48OvNOmsgpdgqfox3a4vki5mLO09kibcIIc eakjy04Lww2eNczj3McAwJqaPCcfbRf9gxo4+50= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwCW+WzQP2NyFcDulVEDHue2PBdT1DOVVvQzUdRoTJiUXJO4Vu6152I6qXyD5T7CS/QT9CRdFqigTuy76BYylA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9a97:: with SMTP id p23mr3160434lji.160.1558539314234; Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <75853070-b8ac-19fc-ae37-80d0d2c49c86@pi.nu> <760c258a-a8ea-583a-7648-4256b2b34a48@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 08:35:01 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: Loa Andersson , =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga_A?= , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003188e905897bb6ec" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 15:35:21 -0000 --0000000000003188e905897bb6ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy, thank you for sharing your opinion. I agree, having several documents that address encapsulation of DetNei OAM in the particular data plane (MPLS, IPv4, and IPv6 may be the reasonable number for OAM) makes a lot of sense to me too. As Loa have pointed, the existing DetNet OAM draft is fairly strong for MPLS data plane. If the WG and the WG Chairs agree to have DetNet OAM encapsulation defined in several documents, we can update the scope of draft-mirsky-detnet-oam aiming it at MPLS data plane. OAM protocols specific to DetNet, e.g. exercising PREF, to be defined in the separate document(s) as these should be common for all DetNet data plane and OAM encapsulation in DetNet. Regards, Greg On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:20 AM Andrew G. Malis wrote: > Greg, > > As the data plane drafts have been separated to focus on each of the > individual data planes, that may be the best course of action for the OAM > drafts as well. If it turns out that there's a reasonable amount of > material that's common between the two, then there can also be a third OA= M > Framework draft with the common material, again mirroring the data plane > drafts. Just a thought. > > Cheers, > Andy > > > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 10:23 AM Greg Mirsky > wrote: > >> Hi Loa, >> thank you for your suggestion. Will revive the draft today. >> And I agree with your suggestion to discuss whether we want to have one >> draft for DetNet OAM over all possible variants of the data plane. >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson wrote: >> >>> Bala'zs, >>> >>> The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page. >>> Normally that is a sign that the interest is not that high. >>> >>> Andy, >>> >>> Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for >>> the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I >>> asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning= . >>> What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on >>> IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that. >>> >>> Greg, >>> >>> Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it >>> active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both >>> MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay. >>> >>> All, >>> >>> Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do= . >>> I see two alternatives >>> >>> First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything. >>> >>> Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for >>> DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky. >>> >>> I have a slight preference for the second alternative. >>> >>> But make it a wg decision. >>> >>> /Loa >>> >>> On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote: >>> > Hi Balazs, >>> > thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and tha= t >>> > may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I >>> > will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it >>> would >>> > be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM fo= r >>> > DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation >>> and >>> > co-authors. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > Greg >>> > >>> > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A >>> > > >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi Loa, >>> > >>> > We have a dedicated OAM document: >>> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02 >>> > >>> > Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents :--((( >>> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/detnet/documents/ >>> > >>> > Cheers >>> > Bala'zs >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: detnet >> > > On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM >>> > To: Andrew G. Malis >> >>; >>> > Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A >> > > >>> > Cc: detnet@ietf.org >>> > Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section >>> > >>> > Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy, >>> > >>> > I have no problem removing the OAM section from the data plane >>> > documents. >>> > >>> > The question I have is what do we do about the OAM for the specif= ic >>> > data planes, do we paln separate documents?? >>> > >>> > /Loa >>> > >>> > On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote: >>> > > Bal=C3=A1zs, >>> > > >>> > > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder right now. >>> > > >>> > > Cheers, >>> > > Andy >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A >>> > > >> balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com> >>> > >> > >> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > Hi,____ >>> > > >>> > > __ __ >>> > > >>> > > Data plane documents are under review to prepare them for >>> the >>> > > workgroup last call.____ >>> > > >>> > > OAM section is intended to be removed from the =E2=80=9CDe= tNet Data >>> > Plane: >>> > > IP=E2=80=9D document.____ >>> > > >>> > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____ >>> > > >>> > > __ __ >>> > > >>> > > Any objections?____ >>> > > >>> > > __ __ >>> > > >>> > > Cheers____ >>> > > >>> > > Bala=E2=80=99zs____ >>> > > >>> > > __ __ >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > detnet mailing list >>> > > detnet@ietf.org >> detnet@ietf.org >>> > > >>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > detnet mailing list >>> > > detnet@ietf.org >>> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> > > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > >>> > Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu >> loa@pi.nu> >>> > Senior MPLS Expert >>> > Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > detnet mailing list >>> > detnet@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > detnet mailing list >>> > detnet@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > detnet mailing list >>> > detnet@ietf.org >>> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Loa Andersson email: loa@pi.nu >>> Senior MPLS Expert >>> Bronze Dragon Consulting phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>> >> --0000000000003188e905897bb6ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Andy,
thank you for sharing your opinion. I agree, = having several documents that address encapsulation of DetNei OAM in the pa= rticular data plane (MPLS, IPv4, and IPv6 may be the reasonable number for = OAM) makes a lot of sense to me too. As Loa have pointed, the existing DetN= et OAM draft is fairly strong for MPLS data plane. If the WG and the WG Cha= irs agree to have DetNet OAM encapsulation defined in several documents, we= can update the scope of draft-mirsky-detnet-oam aiming it at MPLS data pla= ne. OAM protocols specific to DetNet, e.g. exercising PREF, to be defined i= n the separate document(s) as these should be common for all DetNet data pl= ane and OAM encapsulation in DetNet.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 8:20 AM Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg,
<= br>
As the data plane drafts have been separated to focus on each= of the individual data planes, that may be the best course of action for t= he OAM drafts as well. If it turns out that there's a reasonable amount= of material that's common between the two, then there can also be a th= ird OAM Framework draft with the common material, again mirroring the data = plane drafts. Just=C2=A0a thought.

Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 10:23 AM Greg Mirsky = <gregimirsky@= gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Loa,
thank you for your suggestion. Will= revive the draft today.
And I agree with your suggestion to disc= uss whether we want to have one draft for DetNet OAM over all possible vari= ants of the data plane.

Best regards,
Gr= eg

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:10 PM Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Bala'zs,

The draft is expired, that is why it is not shown on the detnet page.
Normally=C2=A0 that is a sign that the interest is not that high.

Andy,

Yes - you are right, but the difference between what we are doing for
the MPLS data plane and for the IP data plane was one reason that I
asked. Also when checking the draft-mirsky it has a strong MPLS leaning. What was removed from the data plane draft was (the little we have) on
IP OAM. draft-mirsky does not add much compared to that.

Greg,

Please revive the draft, even if you do no other changes, we need it
active. That said I'm not sure that we want ONE draft covering both
MPLS and IP OAM, it is normally a recipe for delay.

All,

Once the draft-mirsky is active again, let us decide what we want to do. I see two alternatives

First, build on draft-mirsky and create one draft for everything.

Second, break the IP OAM out of draft-mirsky and start a new draft for
DetNet IP OAM and base the DetNet MPLS OAM in draft-mirsky.

I have a slight preference for the second alternative.

But make it a wg decision.

/Loa

On 2019-05-22 01:39, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Hi Balazs,
> thank you for pointing to the OAM for DetNet draft. It lapsed and that=
> may be why is not showing up among other DetNet documents. Mach and I =
> will work on adding OAM for DetNet over IP data plane. I think it woul= d
> be good to use this document for discussion, the definition of OAM for=
> DetNet over all possible data plane variants. We welcome cooperation a= nd
> co-authors.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 1:43 AM Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A
> <b= alazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>> wro= te:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Loa,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0We have a dedicated OAM document:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-mirsky-detnet-oam-02
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Unfortunately not showed among the DetNet documents= :--(((
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf= .org/group/detnet/documents/
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala'zs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Loa A= ndersson
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 8:54 AM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Andrew G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com <mailto:agmalis@gmail.com>>;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bal=C3=A1zs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [Detnet] Data Plane IP, OAM section >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs and Andy,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no problem removing the OAM section from the= data plane
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0documents.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The question I have is what do we do about the OAM = for the specific
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data planes, do we paln separate documents??
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/Loa
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On 2019-05-21 00:54, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Bal=C3=A1zs,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Sounds good, it's just a placeholder righ= t now.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Cheers,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Andy
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:20 AM Bal=C3=A1zs = Varga A
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com <mailto:balazs.a.varga@er= icsson.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>>> wrote:=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi,____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Data plane documents are u= nder review to prepare them for the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0workgroup last call.____ >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OAM section is intended to= be removed from the =E2=80=9CDetNet Data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Plane:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0IP=E2=80=9D document.____<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip/____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any objections?____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bala=E2=80=99zs____
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__ __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0__________________________= _____________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org> <mailto:detnet@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:detnet@ietf.org>>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _____________________________________________= __
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu <mailto:loa@pi.nu>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Senior MPLS Expert
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0detnet@ietf.org <mailto:detnet@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/detnet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> detnet mailing list
> detnet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >

--


Loa Andersson=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert
Bronze Dragon Consulting=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pho= ne: +46 739 81 21 64
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Mon, 27 May 2019 07:35:37 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 27 May 2019 07:35:36 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 27 May 2019 14:35:34 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Mon, 27 May 2019 14:35:34 +0800 From: "Gengxuesong (Geng Xuesong)" To: "detnet@ietf.org" CC: Mach Chen , =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?wK+/rMO2?= Thread-Topic: [Detnet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-detnet-yang-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHU4yp5IP/WsEhQf0SBxRa/pLw8F6Z+4YjA Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 06:35:34 +0000 Message-ID: <1be0f2c21bc04ffcb5934f36c1ff14b7@huawei.com> References: <155353240678.28988.18080552674175846436@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155353240678.28988.18080552674175846436@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.130.169.123] Content-Type: multipart/related; 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charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear WG,

 

After several discussions wi= th other authors and chairs, we decided to update the YANG Model, which ali= gns with the new serious of Data Plane drafts, as follows:

1. There are four configuration instances, including "DetNet Proxy Insta= nce", "Service Sub-layer Instance", "Forwarding Sub-lay= er Instance", "TSN Sub-network Instance". When the device is= configured, these instances are used following the order of the layer stac= k defined in the architecture:


2. There are four elements in every configuration inst= ance: operations, in-segment, out-segment, as discussed in IETF 104.

The overall structure is lik= e:

If the WG agrees with the st= ructure, we will work on update the draft and publish 03 version as soon as= possible.

 

Any comments or suggests are= welcome.

 

Best Regards
Xuesong

 

>-----Original Message---= --

>From: detnet [mailto:det= net-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of

>internet-drafts@ietf.org=

>Sent: Tuesday, March 26,= 2019 12:47 AM

>To: i-d-announce@ietf.or= g

>Cc: detnet@ietf.org=

>Subject: [Detnet] I-D Ac= tion: draft-ietf-detnet-yang-02.txt

> =

> =

>A New Internet-Draft is = available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

>This draft is a work ite= m of the Deterministic Networking WG of the IETF.

> =

>    =     Title        &nb= sp;  : Deterministic Networking (DetNet) Configuration

>YANG Model

>    =     Authors         = : Xuesong Geng

>    =             &nb= sp;         Mach(Guoyi) Chen

>    =             &nb= sp;         Zhenqiang Li=

>    =             &nb= sp;         Reshad Rahman

>    =    Filename        : draft-iet= f-detnet-yang-02.txt

>    =    Pages         &nb= sp; : 46

>    =    Date         &nbs= p;  : 2019-03-25

> =

>Abstract:

>   This docume= nt contains the specification for Deterministic Networking

>   flow config= uration YANG Model.  The model allows for provisioning of

>   end-to-end = DetNet service along the path without dependency on any

>   signaling p= rotocol.

> =

>   The YANG mo= dule defined in this document conforms to the Network

>   Management = Datastore Architecture (NMDA).

> =

> =

> =

>The IETF datatracker sta= tus page for this draft is:

>https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-yang/

> =

>There are also htmlized = versions available at:

>https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/draft-ietf-detnet-yang-02

>https://datatracker.ietf= .org/doc/html/draft-ietf-detnet-yang-02

> =

>A diff from the previous= version is available at:

>https://www.ietf.org/rfc= diff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-detnet-yang-02

> =

> =

>Please note that it may = take a couple of minutes from the time of submission

>until the htmlized versi= on and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

> =

>Internet-Drafts are also= available by anonymous FTP at:

>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/inter= net-drafts/

> =

>________________________= _______________________

>detnet mailing list=

>detnet@ietf.org

>https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/detnet

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Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 31 May 2019 15:30:11 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=c3=a1nos_Farkas?= To: DetNet WG Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 15:30:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7iW6yzscYg56LNha/P81mcWD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxqu/PcwFbewVy47tZG1gfMHaxcjJISFgIrFlxTO2LkYuDiGB o4wSLeu72CGcb4wSD09OYoFwjjFK9LXsZgdpYROwl7h7aQMziC0sYCxx/18XWFxEQF6isfcz mM0LVHPv+nQmEJtFQFXi+PKPLCC2qECsxKcri5khagQlTs58AhZnFrCQmDn/PCOELS+x/e0c ZghbXOLWk/lgc4QE1CQ+vX3IPoGRfxaS9llI2mchaZ+FpH0BI8sqRtHi1OKk3HQjI73Uoszk 4uL8PL281JJNjMAwPLjlt8EOxpfPHQ8xCnAwKvHwfuL+GCPEmlhWXJl7iFGCg1lJhPfviw8x QrwpiZVVqUX58UWlOanFhxilOViUxHmjV++JERJITyxJzU5NLUgtgskycXBKNTBy8LU0edf2 xZl8mzJheVT+BFv1wAevWUUnK4Zoa7TrOmkKn538/npNeM2NO6ftl59s2rb8noRd6oLiM+u/ alvNYw/vqfPVOfi1/kXB2j2rnopoP5U3Wf5OfyoLj9D3+3mmkZ+unthYf+aBZNjT4PQba8w9 cyKERHR33mZ64Vh4WPEHz0qD60+VWIozEg21mIuKEwFuxE56PwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] calls to progress DetNet data plane drafts X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:30:16 -0000 Hi, We have open informal discussions on Mondays to progress the data plane drafts. Everyone is welcome to participate. Please find the meeting details below. Ongoing work on the drafts is available at: https://github.com/detnet-wg/data-plane-drafts. Comments and contributions from the WG are always appropriate and welcome. Best regards, Janos ------------------------------------- DetNet Data Plane drafts progressing Hosted by DetNet Working Group Monday, Jun 3, 2019 8:00 am | 1 hour | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada) Occurs every Monday effective 6/3/2019 until 7/15/2019 from 2:00 PM to 3:00 PM, (UTC+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna Meeting number: 646 379 614 https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=md0d5be41b73b8b70cd49ae7f7224fad2 Join by phone 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Access code: 646 379 614 From nobody Fri May 31 09:09:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55241201B8 for ; Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t6MLMLHHdiuW for ; Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1468D1201AE for ; Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id l26so8321436lfh.13 for ; Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DKRJwmvbgBjOA3L1lXePUEuIuKvr1lV8uLXuzzjL5wE=; b=VRV9NTSgbyBB6TCyIRV3OAr5tRyWk4n03xNTzqPVke9eqhQtUCxI22bY6UtBEL9DPu LEzGaThGYYi0+7Tlt04HMduMBPQTnyVa84qUMIJJNeFzwJSNqm5XnXaxJQlUqs1A/MpZ YQHmQN2qQ4VqNH8puNTeZM5joEVtrgFdQkze6T28gCy+2gHazj7GnoCc1vVstI6eVZ4c piHDIac2iXQB+wN1+d1+CmWPIsGApfjEXcky8g3TOtPUVg077dm0u0hqwlv3yEstAyoN ChkYisHOkS4VB2WzqhEJhn+G6mCDEW4MsfcMP/WlO7qlmRkoP/gGZe8n2pw087G7Wbei Yz0g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DKRJwmvbgBjOA3L1lXePUEuIuKvr1lV8uLXuzzjL5wE=; b=WiZHLbotz6iV6koaWJzXtGXzlVohG8uaAF94Y3sRL4P/2+aUwtZVwem/M/D+/ppR3/ 0w/60DX9iowpJKzw2MZgrobbR3cd6roXIxZU395VSScJ4U8dHgREZD/rSHCYzPhs7YCW jhYVVPEZUs3NZ2pC7YxvdLOtsgHrv91P2JzUw/FAkzhAex9FLGh1Thldcc0Km7v08Pfw JXC2ZbbhTY3YIfwmWtcRztvZPxZV/mc9W2czLrPWWZVE8K7Fz3gUJdY48DHnjgPdMZ3w 921GNrRx75CBkheNyP4VXVPoMXImi2Phrk4dnYUspa26xq3aveayEvL4vigyRPGoJs1q wWDw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV6CLREqlPSb9xvekS2vUU4hZCz3xo3CLdjdPINOqVmSzFzUsQR bDgT+QqsXyIm1C39715e5f7BdwhzrHJZFa3JEF0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyzRHBot6DzPC0FZ5xsl1pp4oeNMMZNh4PhNMfpPLZiuLF0bkL3Qgu+vXSX7Yc7AHpVV4ISn+z4NUEWtlZMXRA= X-Received: by 2002:a19:4bc5:: with SMTP id y188mr6180438lfa.113.1559318935287; Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 09:08:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A1nos_Farkas?= Cc: DetNet WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003abfe2058a313b44" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] calls to progress DetNet data plane drafts X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 16:09:00 -0000 --0000000000003abfe2058a313b44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Janos, Lou, et. al., would it be possible to move the call one hour later to start at 6:00 PDT instead of 5:00 in the morning? Regards, Greg On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 6:30 AM J=C3=A1nos Farkas wrote: > Hi, > > We have open informal discussions on Mondays to progress the data plane > drafts. > Everyone is welcome to participate. > Please find the meeting details below. > > Ongoing work on the drafts is available at: > https://github.com/detnet-wg/data-plane-drafts. > Comments and contributions from the WG are always appropriate and welcome= . > > Best regards, > Janos > > > ------------------------------------- > DetNet Data Plane drafts progressing > Hosted by DetNet Working Group > > Monday, Jun 3, 2019 8:00 am | 1 hour | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & > Canada) > Occurs every Monday effective 6/3/2019 until 7/15/2019 from 2:00 PM to > 3:00 PM, (UTC+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna > Meeting number: 646 379 614 > https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmd0d5be41b73b8b70cd49ae7f7224fad= 2 > > Join by phone > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) > Access code: 646 379 614 > > > _______________________________________________ > detnet mailing list > detnet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --0000000000003abfe2058a313b44 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Janos, Lou, et. al.,
would it be possible to move t= he call one hour later to start at 6:00 PDT instead of 5:00 in the morning?=

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, May 31, 2019= at 6:30 AM J=C3=A1nos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

We have open informal discussions on Mondays to progress the data plane drafts.
Everyone is welcome to participate.
Please find the meeting details below.

Ongoing work on the drafts is available at:
https://github.com/detnet-wg/data-plane-drafts. Comments and contributions from the WG are always appropriate and welcome.<= br>
Best regards,
Janos


-------------------------------------
DetNet Data Plane drafts progressing
Hosted by DetNet Working Group

Monday, Jun 3, 2019 8:00 am | 1 hour | (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & <= br> Canada)
Occurs every Monday effective 6/3/2019 until 7/15/2019 from 2:00 PM to
3:00 PM, (UTC+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna
Meeting number: 646 379 614
https://ietf.webex.com/iet= f/j.php?MTID=3Dmd0d5be41b73b8b70cd49ae7f7224fad2

Join by phone
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
Access code: 646 379 614


_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
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