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(256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com) by us2.outbound.mailhostbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56DF37815BF; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 19:12:47 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nfinnconsulting.com; s=20161121; t=1575313968; bh=MAdM04Q0uui4NqZNLLQMuOVsA5vISWRxe+9vgsUm9fw=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=Dti0P2hK2w2gmdZGQ5P8qbbywKXOYzIzfRI120Hd12pYYyqc3Z9y9KDn51ehZspyI cWoc4Axpu0aO/61J92AXZTN+qDq0Xh8RhBo5DYg4qztRBrL/gnKMy2zNAEQvVy0F58 h03Q//0TqUdlmQzpiR+QheF4Yc42ah5sMeCJWe8Q= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Norman Finn In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:12:46 -0800 Cc: Henrik Austad , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Stewart Bryant , =?utf-8?Q?J=C3=A1nos_Farkas?= , "Black, David" , Norman Finn , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2FE4DD98-998D-483C-94E1-A87EBE967BD8@nfinnconsulting.com> References: To: "Grossman, Ethan A." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TNw7tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:117 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=71gWz-ejCTTePjJVolwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2019 19:12:51 -0000 I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). All = other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less desirable. Monday 08:00-10:00 Monday 17:00-23:00 Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday =E2=80=94 Norm > On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: >=20 > Hi Guys, > So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working = meetings for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and = he and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s). = Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any interest in = participating?=20 > Thanks, > Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Grossman, Ethan A. =20 > Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM > To: Henrik Austad > Cc: Janos Farkas ; = draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant = ; Norman Finn ; = Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; = detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress = draft-ietf-detnet-security >=20 > I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays.=20 > Ethan. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Henrik Austad > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM > To: Grossman, Ethan A. > Cc: Janos Farkas ; = draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant = ; Norman Finn ; = Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; = detnet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress = draft-ietf-detnet-security >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET > time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all that = non-interruptible stuff :) >=20 > -Henrik >=20 > On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A. = wrote: >>=20 >> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) >>=20 >> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from which = we would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>=20 >> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for = California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>=20 >> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Ethan. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Janos Farkas >> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >> ; Norman Finn ;=20= >> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Authors, Contributors, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual = meetings to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) so = that we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thanks and regards, >>=20 >> Janos >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Henrik Austad From nobody Mon Dec 2 11:42:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF6C12004E; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:42:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LBBEDyqM8HUU; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr740123.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.74.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EBEB120018; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=GHfUjQWJHn1NEymvF1ghw2pQeihN7SxPrGk28DXYI64HuVonyxhk0NsndpredS8KJuTwdSXVhM0PSIpCxPYCF7M9RXhAW6wsBxIpSg3psO7Por2xvR60qU++aAPgIZVnRV1TdY7Hqz92uI9wkbnyLX5xVFLEykMRrSWSC+c1CwTGJlAT8PV3W40pvNknRrsdHR+ot0VPQpx+qODd7ukpsMF1Ad0bkb4Jsy2SJmSIG0QGWkSFoTDzhg8IecjmZPg2ziDjZFCyqtwmcsyb5W0QTTxCTC3DIB7jltJQZnXSvpG2BFm4pIngEq1mC7X9JsVDEeK9w8F4soS6OVDgly/cFw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=JIqGoOAV52apYnenb37x1L0cJq3K4H6J91Y98//7p3g=; b=iD76DwZyJjaze2/dihRSwmEtY0BxIE90lCkm+176CT+8/zXOb/YJBZ2sBbPS+QCBsAEv59F8vwXq9fyuejMZMDRM1kJ70B3HiOdcXbg9tKI3BrQbBI00ZC632fTsBp0OtN1G+OPYOigvpLMxA86B0UFi60wQkFbLjw6p0RMR3LcEOgFNUGH7dwXpW4TktlzblmUXH79a9Jb9BWXyYPPjRrzlX43CN+a638jit06njT0QXCuPo5rIu8Wuv0Jndu0MBUmlr0kqjEuDA3YTaB0zgBHRdQYVCb/A9+j+YmDhM7U9ZWr3+6G1EXCbDa3NR2dBNIEDZlPetpS5qa0RtkUdDA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=JIqGoOAV52apYnenb37x1L0cJq3K4H6J91Y98//7p3g=; b=X36N4zlvEn64OdMKHhfN7qevjrdAsz3qlM9Gks/tRT0Zb6vI63u1iw4GQsGdvnGOiPz/0br+Arh0iQl4zmLrZhijLR/ydgfNQdnTP7K9fDOndw4d7poik5pZqk1r7Y4TurKiwoFitSVJTS6HXupRA/p8eCAnG5alskTlCaDPr1M= Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (52.135.240.140) by BYAPR06MB6296.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (20.178.234.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2495.17; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 19:42:11 +0000 Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9089:e77d:8842:b8f0]) by BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9089:e77d:8842:b8f0%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2495.014; Mon, 2 Dec 2019 19:42:10 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: Norman Finn CC: Henrik Austad , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Stewart Bryant , =?utf-8?B?SsOhbm9zIEZhcmthcw==?= , "Black, David" , Norman Finn , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security Thread-Index: AdWggU9Pvnc5OGOoS3i5Gw/Cqa3mTACFVHnAABeP1QAALbDbUAFlil2QAACrVwAAAQBP0A== Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 19:42:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2FE4DD98-998D-483C-94E1-A87EBE967BD8@nfinnconsulting.com> In-Reply-To: <2FE4DD98-998D-483C-94E1-A87EBE967BD8@nfinnconsulting.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-dg-ref: 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[82.132.221.141]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b67sm6095097wmc.38.2019.12.04.01.26.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Dec 2019 01:26:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Stewart Bryant In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 09:26:07 +0000 Cc: Janos Farkas , "Grossman, Ethan A." , Norman Finn , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Henrik Austad , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn Message-Id: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> References: To: "Black, David" X-Mailer: iPad Mail (17A878) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:26:14 -0000 I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go clash w= ith other events. Best regards=20 Stewart.=20 Sent from my iPad > On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a Paci= fic Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular internal me= eting in that time slot. >=20 > Thanks, --David >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas >> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM >> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; Stewart >> Bryant >> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, David; det= net- >> chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-det= net- >> security >>=20 >>=20 >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he slot. I= 'd >> be glad to have that from Tal as well. >> Please le tus know. >>=20 >> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. >>=20 >> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors, then >> announce to the WG. >>=20 >> Do you really want to have weekly calls? >>=20 >> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want confirmaion o= n >> what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or dedicated dates if weekly i= s too >> much. >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Janos >>=20 >> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot make i= t if it >> starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM >> To: Norman Finn >> Cc: Henrik Austad ; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org= ; >> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas >> ; Black, David ; >> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >> detnet@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-secur= ity >>=20 >> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot (date(s) TBD).= >> Ethan. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Norman Finn >> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM >> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >> Cc: Henrik Austad ; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org= ; >> Stewart Bryant ; J=C3=A1nos Farkas >> ; Black, David ; >> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >> detnet@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-secur= ity >>=20 >> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). All o= ther >> times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less desirable. >>=20 >> Monday 08:00-10:00 >> Monday 17:00-23:00 >> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday >>=20 >> =E2=80=94 Norm >>=20 >>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Guys, >>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working meeting= s >> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he and I a= re >> proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s). Stewart, does >> that work for you? David? Anyone else have any interest in participating?= >>> Thanks, >>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM >>> To: Henrik Austad >>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>> ; Norman Finn >> ; >>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. >>> Ethan. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Henrik Austad >>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>> ; Norman Finn >> ; >>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET >>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all that >>> non-interruptible stuff :) >>>=20 >>> -Henrik >>>=20 >>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A. >> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) >>>>=20 >>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from which we= >> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>>>=20 >>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for >> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>>>=20 >>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Ethan. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> From: Janos Farkas >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>> ; Norman Finn >> ; >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Authors, Contributors, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual meeting= s >> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) so tha= t >> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>=20 >>>> Janos >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Henrik Austad >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> detnet mailing list >> detnet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Wed Dec 4 11:00:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C961C1209B1; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 11:00:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ethan Grossman via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.111.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: Ethan Grossman , eagros@dolby.com, detnet@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, detnet-chairs@ietf.org Message-ID: <157548604981.11240.6711482076852527197.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 11:00:49 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-03 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 19:00:52 -0000 Ethan Grossman has requested publication of draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-03 as Informational on behalf of the DETNET working group. 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To: Stewart Bryant , "Black, David" CC: Janos Farkas , Norman Finn , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Henrik Austad , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn Thread-Topic: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security Thread-Index: AdWggU9Pvnc5OGOoS3i5Gw/Cqa3mTACFVHnAABeP1QAALbDbUAFlil2QAACrVwAAAQBP0AABeAbAADTm/4AAGLjSgAAUU2Gg Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:08:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-dg-ref: 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[82.132.246.242]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n8sm9657882wrx.42.2019.12.04.13.25.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Dec 2019 13:25:15 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G130) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 22:25:11 +0100 Cc: "Black, David" , Janos Farkas , Norman Finn , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Henrik Austad , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> To: "Grossman, Ethan A." Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 21:25:19 -0000 Perfect Stewart > On 4 Dec 2019, at 20:08, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: >=20 > How about Tuesday 10am PST?=20 > Ethan. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant =20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM > To: Black, David > Cc: Janos Farkas ; Grossman,= Ethan A. ; Norman Finn ; tal.m= izrahi.phd@gmail.com; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn > Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-securi= ty >=20 > I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. >=20 > I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. >=20 > I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go clash= with other events. >=20 > Best regards=20 >=20 > Stewart.=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 >> On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFI don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a Pac= ific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular internal m= eeting in that time slot. >>=20 >> Thanks, --David >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com;=20 >>> Stewart Bryant >>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, David;=20= >>> detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet- security >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he=20 >>> slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well. >>> Please le tus know. >>>=20 >>> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. >>>=20 >>> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors,=20 >>> then announce to the WG. >>>=20 >>> Do you really want to have weekly calls? >>>=20 >>> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want=20 >>> confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or=20 >>> dedicated dates if weekly is too much. >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Janos >>>=20 >>> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot=20 >>> make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM >>> To: Norman Finn >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ;=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas=20 >>> ; Black, David ;=20 >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;=20 >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot (date(s) TBD)= . >>> Ethan. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Norman Finn >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ;=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>> Stewart Bryant ; J=C3=A1nos Farkas=20 >>> ; Black, David ;=20 >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;=20 >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). =20 >>> All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less desirable= . >>>=20 >>> Monday 08:00-10:00 >>> Monday 17:00-23:00 >>> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=94 Norm >>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote:= >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Guys, >>>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working=20 >>>> meetings >>> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he=20 >>> and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s).=20 >>> Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any interest in= participating? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM >>>> To: Henrik Austad >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ;=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ;=20 >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>=20 >>>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. >>>> Ethan. >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Henrik Austad >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM >>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ;=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ;=20 >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>>=20 >>>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET >>>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all=20 >>>> that non-interruptible stuff :) >>>>=20 >>>> -Henrik >>>>=20 >>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A.=20 >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) >>>>>=20 >>>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from=20 >>>>> which we >>> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for >>> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>>>>=20 >>>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ethan. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> From: Janos Farkas >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >>>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >>>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Authors, Contributors, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual=20 >>>>> meetings >>> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) so=20= >>>>> that >>> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Janos >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Henrik Austad >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> detnet mailing list >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Wed Dec 4 13:38:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 104D8120895; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:38:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.573 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.573 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, PDS_BTC_ID=0.499, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.073, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nfinnconsulting.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eNAsd49Oi_ch; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from us2-ob4-6.mailhostbox.com (us2-ob4-6.mailhostbox.com [208.91.199.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5603120808; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (ip72-220-193-129.sd.sd.cox.net [72.220.193.129]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com) by us2.outbound.mailhostbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DADAF1C1F5E; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:38:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nfinnconsulting.com; s=20161121; t=1575495495; bh=KKDGvETmgqKKUiFmS/Bux03YiRtVlAlEAcwT27gLfj8=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=LH92ptptHpoz3lbzE3V5yahmqlEYp7Oma47iZ/nDgpwlitFHaiWWB+BOlIzD72WGT JKNbjeYJp7C/3Hr7cY/B+m4tDCYWprZqtexLWncy8Pgx3P5KkcVarzQOGtKnEHxCH3 l93GaEs3aMlQ4JK8GXqjm5UmRWlTIrrJhlShFOmg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Norman Finn In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 13:38:13 -0800 Cc: Stewart Bryant , "Black, David" , Janos Farkas , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , Henrik Austad , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> To: "Grossman, Ethan A." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=bMdo382Z c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:117 a=ZroTAhzyX14UgCOAdtcGMw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=nBTygFzDBorNUUycT10A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 21:38:18 -0000 Fine > On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:08, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: >=20 > How about Tuesday 10am PST?=20 > Ethan. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant =20 > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM > To: Black, David > Cc: Janos Farkas ; = Grossman, Ethan A. ; Norman Finn = ; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; = draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad ; = detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn = > Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress = draft-ietf-detnet-security >=20 > I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. >=20 > I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. >=20 > I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go = clash with other events. >=20 > Best regards=20 >=20 > Stewart.=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 >> On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFI don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a = Pacific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular = internal meeting in that time slot. >>=20 >> Thanks, --David >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com;=20 >>> Stewart Bryant >>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, = David;=20 >>> detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet- security >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he=20= >>> slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well. >>> Please le tus know. >>>=20 >>> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. >>>=20 >>> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors,=20 >>> then announce to the WG. >>>=20 >>> Do you really want to have weekly calls? >>>=20 >>> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want=20 >>> confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or=20 >>> dedicated dates if weekly is too much. >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> Janos >>>=20 >>> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot=20= >>> make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM >>> To: Norman Finn >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ;=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas=20 >>> ; Black, David ;=20 >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;=20 >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot (date(s) = TBD). >>> Ethan. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Norman Finn >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ;=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>> Stewart Bryant ; J=C3=A1nos Farkas=20 >>> ; Black, David ;=20 >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;=20 >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). =20= >>> All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less = desirable. >>>=20 >>> Monday 08:00-10:00 >>> Monday 17:00-23:00 >>> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=94 Norm >>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Guys, >>>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working=20 >>>> meetings >>> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he=20= >>> and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s).=20 >>> Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any = interest in participating? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM >>>> To: Henrik Austad >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ;=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ;=20 >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>=20 >>>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. >>>> Ethan. >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Henrik Austad >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM >>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ;=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ;=20 >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>>=20 >>>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET >>>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all=20 >>>> that non-interruptible stuff :) >>>>=20 >>>> -Henrik >>>>=20 >>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A.=20 >>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) >>>>>=20 >>>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from=20 >>>>> which we >>> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for >>> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>>>>=20 >>>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ethan. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> From: Janos Farkas >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >>>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant=20 >>>>> ; Norman Finn >>> ; >>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >>>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress=20 >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Authors, Contributors, >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual=20 >>>>> meetings >>> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) = so=20 >>>>> that >>> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Janos >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Henrik Austad >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> detnet mailing list >>> detnet@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet From nobody Wed Dec 4 17:46:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E686120947; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 17:46:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, PDS_BTC_ID=0.499, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=dolby.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sccL4XEiJPV4; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 17:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02on0721.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe45::721]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84D491208F2; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 17:46:14 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=aeWnVvjzffCdYMyEJ9ZaSC9gGFtGvLbMVmYdCr2nKOYeDRyNSI9OAxb39EFCRiH3Gt+jDIzd/Fhwh/2+jMCiAt6qbwe3gYdQVkLTnjHk4zFjY+Hs70zY5qLCYmIcfRDfYx6qCbNOLHwCzesHqEwkOF5UhWJOdkbJ2NcdLlwaxXsw8uFGdn70zvKPF0VONDwR5BFegdxqNeFHs6E59RG59JjnldkVRBxYJqkMOJCMKK5rhYWSVikQ7o/+mwE1b5eyhYyUGv+fu0TON5xhjinUmKZJ44Ulz6YUSODFfk/7AyQqpmV9Yla9O/oJ+aUT1KV66csjqAPvUWjv656LKL6V4w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0XYw1g+z+j3DS7Nx9V5FxFF2n+3xEQH2bBrtOImT6tU=; b=ahJFkP8oqt4glLiqQtDyXzjPOftyQ734bZo4XrbxaPMedh8LnFjD+R1xIEet9hbhK/DkCxvbJWXgbvfyze3LCkBprNKwli/i0I6CvGp9qxapv3hyy1hYTH17g4i9j++H0sCxcoF6bi1cRSxo8+uaHwxJI+bgrdLO5QBbWhwlMvkcFZlg5dXI8ws44LSbOcBgY8l1eUBHQ1QxT1FZGOcTF6wmjlq16Qz/GI6c+57bTWxCOLwpzH6Lct3Nsy49Iz7Cx3PAG/zXOSqqVNEPxEJP1sBTUu4D0k9QlXx+kGzaXwlPkc8N/ZmdY7oVRjejqDObGkDUSoyU0rAL09DZZo7rtQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=dolby.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=dolby.com; dkim=pass header.d=dolby.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dolby.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0XYw1g+z+j3DS7Nx9V5FxFF2n+3xEQH2bBrtOImT6tU=; b=g5vMcPwe/ec7wpuq1NnAet9Cwci5Ah5azrpWiLYGyC66p7KAm7IHq9LBGCa7HEB7k0X/PIKdsNgt1ON9doYM79wfiwGayNX6Eqi5IUqb04SOCPcqTkLkIb6+abvf/yR+5BBbPjNnv6WFs0KBR9BzBWqdQrzU7EkGUwfE8kFMbFA= Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (52.135.240.140) by BYAPR06MB5320.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (20.178.50.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.13; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 01:46:11 +0000 Received: from BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9089:e77d:8842:b8f0]) by BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9089:e77d:8842:b8f0%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2495.014; Thu, 5 Dec 2019 01:46:11 +0000 From: "Grossman, Ethan A." To: Henrik Austad , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" CC: Stewart Bryant , "Black, David" , Janos Farkas , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn , Norman Finn Thread-Topic: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security Thread-Index: AdWggU9Pvnc5OGOoS3i5Gw/Cqa3mTACFVHnAABeP1QAALbDbUAFlil2QAACrVwAAAQBP0AABeAbAADTm/4AAGLjSgAAUU2GgAAU+G4AACJ/MwA== Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 01:46:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-dg-ref: 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Dec 2019 09:19:42 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Grossman, Ethan A." Cc: "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , Stewart Bryant , "Black, David" , Janos Farkas , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn , Norman Finn Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 08:19:57 -0000 Hi Ethan, My Tuesdays are booked until late, so I'm not able to attend. But if someone(tm) is willing to take some notes and share, that'll work too. -Henrik On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:46 AM Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: > > Henrik? Tal? Some Tuesday(s) 10am PST? > Ethan. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norman Finn > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:38 PM > To: Grossman, Ethan A. > Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Black, David ; Janos Farkas ; tal= .mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad = ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn > Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-secur= ity > > Fine > > > On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:08, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: > > > > How about Tuesday 10am PST? > > Ethan. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stewart Bryant > > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM > > To: Black, David > > Cc: Janos Farkas ; > > Grossman, Ethan A. ; Norman Finn > > ; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; > > draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad ; > > detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn > > > > Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress > > draft-ietf-detnet-security > > > > I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. > > > > I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. > > > > I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go cl= ash with other events. > > > > Best regards > > > > Stewart. > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: > >> > >> =EF=BB=BFI don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a = Pacific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular intern= al meeting in that time slot. > >> > >> Thanks, --David > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas > >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM > >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; > >>> Stewart Bryant > >>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, > >>> David; > >>> detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn > >>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress > >>> draft-ietf-detnet- security > >>> > >>> > >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he > >>> slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well. > >>> Please le tus know. > >>> > >>> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. > >>> > >>> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors, > >>> then announce to the WG. > >>> > >>> Do you really want to have weekly calls? > >>> > >>> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want > >>> confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or > >>> dedicated dates if weekly is too much. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Janos > >>> > >>> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot > >>> make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. > >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM > >>> To: Norman Finn > >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; > >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; > >>> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas > >>> ; Black, David ; > >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; > >>> detnet@ietf.org > >>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress > >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security > >>> > >>> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot (date(s) T= BD). > >>> Ethan. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Norman Finn > >>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM > >>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. > >>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; > >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; > >>> Stewart Bryant ; J=C3=A1nos Farkas > >>> ; Black, David ; > >>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; > >>> detnet@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress > >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security > >>> > >>> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). > >>> All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less desira= ble. > >>> > >>> Monday 08:00-10:00 > >>> Monday 17:00-23:00 > >>> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday > >>> > >>> =E2=80=94 Norm > >>> > >>>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. wro= te: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Guys, > >>>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working > >>>> meetings > >>> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he > >>> and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s). > >>> Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any interest= in participating? > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. > >>>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM > >>>> To: Henrik Austad > >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; > >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant > >>>> ; Norman Finn > >>> ; > >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; > >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress > >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security > >>>> > >>>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. > >>>> Ethan. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Henrik Austad > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM > >>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. > >>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; > >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant > >>>> ; Norman Finn > >>> ; > >>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; > >>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress > >>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security > >>>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET > >>>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all > >>>> that non-interruptible stuff :) > >>>> > >>>> -Henrik > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A. > >>>> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) > >>>>> > >>>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from > >>>>> which we > >>> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for > >>> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? > >>>>> > >>>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Ethan. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From: Janos Farkas > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM > >>>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant > >>>>> ; Norman Finn > >>> ; > >>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) > >>>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org > >>>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress > >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Authors, Contributors, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual > >>>>> meetings > >>> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) > >>>>> so that > >>> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks and regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Janos > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Henrik Austad > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> detnet mailing list > >>> detnet@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet > --=20 Henrik Austad From nobody Mon Dec 9 04:49:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F611200BA for ; 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bh=woTBBuCUyiOYEAoLVVIhOhRW4F7UjdURI6BZ8o4IzWw=; b=wk+Kyomg7JkrtA28mhiMJT9BwC s4qcwmIZQ25XqXV3R8zdknwr4yuOPl/2xUWo5JT7qm2n5HFvuSfymaoZPyjZEY0S5Uty6bge/7Geu FLhEt67plbDIE6xMLZXBzsXbj; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=54465 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ieITj-003dJt-8x; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 05:49:31 -0700 To: DetNet WG Cc: DetNet Chairs From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <227ea5e0-3c49-156c-7fc5-ce41e218355a@labn.net> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 07:49:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1ieITj-003dJt-8x X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:54465 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Draft IETF106 minutes uploaded X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 12:49:43 -0000 WG, Thanks to Ethan Grossman (WG Secretary) draft meeting minutes have been posted.  Please see https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/minutes-106-detnet-201911211550 Comments/corrections should be sent to the list and, optionally, reflected on etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-106-detnet Thank you, Lou (Janos and Ethan) From nobody Mon Dec 9 05:44:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C7A120089; 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Mon, 09 Dec 2019 05:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23a8:4140:0:c1d2:501f:dd28:9f7a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i5sm17077526wrv.34.2019.12.09.05.44.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Dec 2019 05:44:27 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) From: Stewart Bryant In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:44:25 +0000 Cc: "Grossman, Ethan A." , "tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" , "Black, David" , Janos Farkas , "draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org" , "detnet-chairs@ietf.org" , "detnet@ietf.org" , Norman Finn , Norman Finn Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <75A80436-07B1-4CB7-AB44-CBF1498A024F@gmail.com> References: <02199DE9-4ADB-40F5-B64D-269CBE15ECF5@gmail.com> To: Henrik Austad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 13:44:32 -0000 Whilst in general Tuesday at 10am PST is a time I can work with I have a = problem tomorrow. I need to be in London at 7pm (11 am PST). I am looking at whether there = is somewhere I can do a call from close to where I need to be. Do we have any dialling info yet? Thanks Stewart > On 5 Dec 2019, at 08:19, Henrik Austad wrote: >=20 > Hi Ethan, >=20 > My Tuesdays are booked until late, so I'm not able to attend. But if > someone(tm) is willing to take some notes and share, that'll work too. >=20 > -Henrik >=20 > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:46 AM Grossman, Ethan A. = wrote: >>=20 >> Henrik? Tal? Some Tuesday(s) 10am PST? >> Ethan. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Norman Finn >> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:38 PM >> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >> Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Black, David = ; Janos Farkas = ; = tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik = Austad ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; = Norman Finn >> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress = draft-ietf-detnet-security >>=20 >> Fine >>=20 >>> On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:08, Grossman, Ethan A. = wrote: >>>=20 >>> How about Tuesday 10am PST? >>> Ethan. >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stewart Bryant >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM >>> To: Black, David >>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>> Grossman, Ethan A. ; Norman Finn >>> ; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad = ; >>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>> >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>=20 >>> I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. >>>=20 >>> I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. >>>=20 >>> I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go = clash with other events. >>>=20 >>> Best regards >>>=20 >>> Stewart. >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>>> On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =EF=BB=BFI don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but = 11a Pacific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular = internal meeting in that time slot. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, --David >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM >>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; >>>>> Stewart Bryant >>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, >>>>> David; >>>>> detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>>>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet- security >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he >>>>> slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well. >>>>> Please le tus know. >>>>>=20 >>>>> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors, >>>>> then announce to the WG. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Do you really want to have weekly calls? >>>>>=20 >>>>> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want >>>>> confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or >>>>> dedicated dates if weekly is too much. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Janos >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I = cannot >>>>> make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM >>>>> To: Norman Finn >>>>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>>>> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas >>>>> ; Black, David ; >>>>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot = (date(s) TBD). >>>>> Ethan. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Norman Finn >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM >>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>>>> Stewart Bryant ; J=C3=A1nos Farkas >>>>> ; Black, David ; >>>>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>=20 >>>>> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific = US). >>>>> All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less = desirable. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Monday 08:00-10:00 >>>>> Monday 17:00-23:00 >>>>> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday >>>>>=20 >>>>> =E2=80=94 Norm >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi Guys, >>>>>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working >>>>>> meetings >>>>> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he >>>>> and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s). >>>>> Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any = interest in participating? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM >>>>>> To: Henrik Austad >>>>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>>>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. >>>>>> Ethan. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Henrik Austad >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM >>>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>>>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET >>>>>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all >>>>>> that non-interruptible stuff :) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -Henrik >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I think it=E2=80=99s a lovely idea :- ) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from >>>>>>> which we >>>>> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious = for >>>>> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Ethan. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> From: Janos Farkas >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >>>>>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >>>>>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Authors, Contributors, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual >>>>>>> meetings >>>>> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) >>>>>>> so that >>>>> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Janos >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Henrik Austad >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> detnet mailing list >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Henrik Austad From nobody Mon Dec 9 09:18:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815C0120096 for ; 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bh=QyDqpnrKKAt76PVG5oCcFD2VAlPZQe++Ui2CyNe/d2k=; b=D1hL+BsoG3CzMqB0aoDpzx3b1A ApyHJ4yoo6zjuu5aS7ZrQTrNLMtbvgJ3v5ajN8WrNouRuRJAe2z6rCNe0dvPaz3DqLFnQq7focEjM vxAm6k+lcoZ8FLcgrmKXJe7M+; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=12239 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ieMft-000Nho-0R for detnet@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Dec 2019 10:18:21 -0700 References: <75A80436-07B1-4CB7-AB44-CBF1498A024F@gmail.com> To: DetNet WG From: Lou Berger X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <75A80436-07B1-4CB7-AB44-CBF1498A024F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 12:18:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <75A80436-07B1-4CB7-AB44-CBF1498A024F@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D097F9FCDBFCB2175D17174F" Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1ieMft-000Nho-0R X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:12239 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Fwd: Re: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2019 17:18:31 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D097F9FCDBFCB2175D17174F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just to be clear this is *not* a formal WG virtual interim meeting, but rather an informal call being run by the document authors that is open to all. Lou -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:44:25 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant To: Henrik Austad CC: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org , Janos Farkas , Norman Finn , tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com , detnet-chairs@ietf.org , Grossman, Ethan A. , detnet@ietf.org , Norman Finn , Black, David Whilst in general Tuesday at 10am PST is a time I can work with I have a problem tomorrow. I need to be in London at 7pm (11 am PST). I am looking at whether there is somewhere I can do a call from close to where I need to be. Do we have any dialling info yet? Thanks Stewart > On 5 Dec 2019, at 08:19, Henrik Austad wrote: > > Hi Ethan, > > My Tuesdays are booked until late, so I'm not able to attend. But if > someone(tm) is willing to take some notes and share, that'll work too. > > -Henrik > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:46 AM Grossman, Ethan A. > wrote: >> >> Henrik? Tal? Some Tuesday(s) 10am PST? >> Ethan. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Norman Finn >> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:38 PM >> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >> Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Black, David >> ; Janos Farkas >> ; >> tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >> Henrik Austad ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >> detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >> draft-ietf-detnet-security >> >> Fine >> >>> On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:08, Grossman, Ethan A. wrote: >>> >>> How about Tuesday 10am PST? >>> Ethan. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stewart Bryant >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM >>> To: Black, David >>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>> Grossman, Ethan A. ; Norman Finn >>> ; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad ; >>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>> >>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>> >>> I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well. >>> >>> I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday. >>> >>> I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go >>> clash with other events. >>> >>> Best regards >>> >>> Stewart. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a >>>> Pacific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a >>>> regular internal meeting in that time slot. >>>> >>>> Thanks, --David >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: detnet On Behalf Of Janos Farkas >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM >>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; >>>>> Stewart Bryant >>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black, >>>>> David; >>>>> detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn >>>>> Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet- security >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he >>>>> slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well. >>>>> Please le tus know. >>>>> >>>>> As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle. >>>>> >>>>> The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors, >>>>> then announce to the WG. >>>>> >>>>> Do you really want to have weekly calls? >>>>> >>>>> I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want >>>>> confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or >>>>> dedicated dates if weekly is too much. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Janos >>>>> >>>>> Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot >>>>> make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM >>>>> To: Norman Finn >>>>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>>>> Stewart Bryant ; Janos Farkas >>>>> ; Black, David ; >>>>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot >>>>> (date(s) TBD). >>>>> Ethan. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Norman Finn >>>>> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM >>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>> Cc: Henrik Austad ; >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; >>>>> Stewart Bryant ; János Farkas >>>>> ; Black, David ; >>>>> Norman Finn ; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>> >>>>> I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US). >>>>> All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less >>>>> desirable. >>>>> >>>>> Monday 08:00-10:00 >>>>> Monday 17:00-23:00 >>>>> Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday >>>>> >>>>> — Norm >>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Guys, >>>>>> So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working >>>>>> meetings >>>>> for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he >>>>> and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s). >>>>> Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any >>>>> interest in participating? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor). >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM >>>>>> To: Henrik Austad >>>>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>>>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>> >>>>>> I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays. >>>>>> Ethan. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Henrik Austad >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM >>>>>> To: Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> Cc: Janos Farkas ; >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) ; >>>>>> detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET >>>>>> time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all >>>>>> that non-interruptible stuff :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -Henrik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A. >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think it’s a lovely idea :- ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from >>>>>>> which we >>>>> would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for >>>>> California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What other time zones should we be considering here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ethan. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Janos Farkas >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM >>>>>>> To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant >>>>>>> ; Norman Finn >>>>> ; >>>>>>> Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) >>>>>>> Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: working virtual meetings to progress >>>>>>> draft-ietf-detnet-security >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Authors, Contributors, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual >>>>>>> meetings >>>>> to progress the draft; which fully agree with. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s) >>>>>>> so that >>>>> we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janos >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Henrik Austad >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> detnet mailing list >>>>> detnet@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet >> > > > -- Henrik Austad _______________________________________________ detnet mailing list detnet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet --------------D097F9FCDBFCB2175D17174F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just to be clear this is *not* a formal WG virtual interim meeting, but rather an informal call being run by the document authors that is open to all.

Lou

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 13:44:25 +0000
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
To: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>
CC: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org <draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org>, Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Norman Finn <nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>, tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, detnet-chairs@ietf.org <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>, Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>, detnet@ietf.org <detnet@ietf.org>, Norman Finn <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>, Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>


Whilst in general Tuesday at 10am PST is a time I can work with I have a problem tomorrow.

I need to be in London at 7pm (11 am PST). I am looking at whether there is somewhere I can do a call from close to where I need to be.

Do we have any dialling info yet?

Thanks

Stewart


On 5 Dec 2019, at 08:19, Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us> wrote:

Hi Ethan,

My Tuesdays are booked until late, so I'm not able to attend. But if
someone(tm) is willing to take some notes and share, that'll work too.

-Henrik

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:46 AM Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com> wrote:

Henrik? Tal? Some Tuesday(s) 10am PST?
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Finn <nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:38 PM
To: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>; Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com; draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>; detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress draft-ietf-detnet-security

Fine

On Dec 4, 2019, at 11:08, Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com> wrote:

How about Tuesday 10am PST?
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 AM
To: Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>
Cc: Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>; Norman Finn
<nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com;
draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>;
detnet-chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn
<nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>
Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security

I have a problem with Wednesday evening as well.

I go to my local amateur radio society meeting on Wednesday.

I can normally do other evenings, though prefer earlier so as not go clash with other events.

Best regards

Stewart.

Sent from my iPad

On 3 Dec 2019, at 21:38, Black, David <David.Black@dell.com> wrote:

I don't know whether I'm essential to this activity, but 11a Pacific Time on Wednesdays does not work for me, as I have a regular internal meeting in that time slot.

Thanks, --David

-----Original Message-----
From: detnet <detnet-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Janos Farkas
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:08 PM
To: Grossman, Ethan A.; Norman Finn; tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com;
Stewart Bryant
Cc: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Henrik Austad; Black,
David;
detnet- chairs@ietf.org; detnet@ietf.org; Norman Finn
Subject: Re: [Detnet] working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet- security


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

Hi,

I agree that it would be good to ahve feedback from Stewart ont he
slot. I'd be glad to have that from Tal as well.
Please le tus know.

As it is a few people I did not see the need for doodle.

The idea is to have a slot good for authors and key contributors,
then announce to the WG.

Do you really want to have weekly calls?

I mean, what you want to make progress is fine. I jsut want
confirmaion on what you really want. It can be bi-weekly, or
dedicated dates if weekly is too much.

Best regards,
Janos

Ps: As for myself 11am PT is night time in Central Europe. I cannot
make it if it starts later than 8am PT. But, I am not needed here.

-----Original Message-----
From: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 8:42 PM
To: Norman Finn <nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>
Cc: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>;
draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org;
Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Janos Farkas
<Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com>; Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>;
Norman Finn <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;
detnet@ietf.org
Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security

Thanks Norm. So far so good for the Wed 11am PST time slot (date(s) TBD).
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Norman Finn <nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>
Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 11:13 AM
To: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Cc: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>;
draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org;
Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; János Farkas
<Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com>; Black, David <David.Black@dell.com>;
Norman Finn <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>; detnet-chairs@ietf.org;
detnet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security

I have regular weekly meetings at the following times (Pacific US).
All other times are OK for me. Obviously, 00:00-06:00 is less desirable.

Monday 08:00-10:00
Monday 17:00-23:00
Wednesday 15:00-01:00 Thursday

— Norm

On Dec 2, 2019, at 10:59, Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com> wrote:

Hi Guys,
So far the only response I have seen (topic: one or more working
meetings
for progressing the DetNet Security draft ) is from Henrik, and he
and I are proposing Wednesday(s) at 11am PST for meeting time(s).
Stewart, does that work for you? David? Anyone else have any interest in participating?
Thanks,
Ethan (as DetNet Security draft editor).

-----Original Message-----
From: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 8:17 AM
To: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>
Cc: Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com>;
draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Norman Finn
<nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>;
Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>;
detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: RE: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security

I am clear for 11am PST Wednesdays.
Ethan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Austad <henrik@austad.us>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:28 AM
To: Grossman, Ethan A. <eagros@dolby.com>
Cc: Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com>;
draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Norman Finn
<nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>;
Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>;
detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security

Hi all,

Wed. 11am-1pm PST is probably what works best for me (evening CET
time) since 8am PST is in the middle of dinner, homework and all
that non-interruptible stuff :)

-Henrik

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 8:18 AM Grossman, Ethan A.
<eagros@dolby.com>
wrote:

I think it’s a lovely idea :- )

I was sort of expecting there to already be a doodle poll from
which we
would select time slots, but maybe this is a DIY effort?

Anyway it would be nice if the meeting time was not egregious for
California time zone. Maybe a Tues or Wed 8am slot?

What other time zones should we be considering here?



Thanks,

Ethan.



From: Janos Farkas <Janos.Farkas@ericsson.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2019 7:39 AM
To: draft-ietf-detnet-security@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant
<stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Norman Finn
<nfinn@nfinnconsulting.com>;
Norm Finn (nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu) <nfinn@alumni.caltech.edu>
Cc: detnet-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: working virtual meetings to progress
draft-ietf-detnet-security



Authors, Contributors,



Stewart indicated that it would be good to have working virtual
meetings
to progress the draft; which fully agree with.



Please select time slot(s) when you want to have such meeting(s)
so that
we can book Webex and announce it on the WG list.



Thanks and regards,

Janos





--
Henrik Austad

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet



-- Henrik Austad

_______________________________________________
detnet mailing list
detnet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet
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charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I have some questions / comments related to some text within draft-ietf-de= tnet-bounded-latency-01. ------------------------------------ I=1B$B!G=1B(Bm not sure what is meant by: =1B$B"M=1B(B =1B$B!H=1B(BIt gives the best possible worst-case behavior.=1B= $B!I=1B(B (Page 5 / Line 3,4) My assumption here is you wanted to express, that when every requirement of= every flow is known upfront it is possible tailor the network most exactl= y according to these flows. What I want to say here is, that I think that words like "best" / "better",= "worse" or similar words are not a good fit here. It's all about the requi= rements of the flows and how many of these flows are you able to serve with= in such a network. Some depend on minimal latency, some on minimal jitter a= nd other require a maximum of availability. If my assumption is true, I suggest a sentence according the lines of the following: --> "Here it is possible to tailor the network most exactly according the r= equirements of the flows." ------------------------------------ The same holds true for: =1B$B"M=1B(B "Other queuing methods (e.g. the credit-based shaper defined = in [IEEE8021Q] section 8.6.8.2) can be used for dynamic flow creation, but = yield poorer latency and buffer space guarantees than when that same queui= ng method is used for static flow creation (Section 3.1.1)." (Last sentence= of Page 5) Is the intention here to say, that someone who wants to be able to establis= h flows in a simple and dynamic way has to do some kind of over provision t= o get the desired flexibility (regarding bandwidth, latency, buffer space .= ..). This is true. But in my view this doesn't make it "poorer". It's just the p= rice to pay for flexibility combined with a simple controller plane. ------------------------------------ Within the text, beginning with page 12, the term "max_packet_length" is us= ed multiple times. I suggest to use the term "max_burst_size". This would l= eave it open to use multiple frames as one burst. ------------------------------------ While I read the section "Credit-Based Shaper with Asynchronous Traffic Sha= ping" two questions arised: - Why is there such a focus on exactly this combination on features select= ed out of the many possibilities TSN provides? - What makes it special opposed to only use ATS? Thank you all for your great work so far on all this papers within DetNet. Greetings, Juergen --_000_DB8PR10MB34668D2F09D950D9F281CFA6CE5B0DB8PR10MB3466EURP_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I have some questions / comm= ents  related to some text within draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-01= .

 

----------------------------= --------

 

I=1B$B!G=1B(Bm not sure what= is  meant by:

=1B$B"M=1B(B =1B$B!H= =1B(BIt gives the best possible worst-case behavior.=1B$B!I=1B(B (Page 5 / = Line 3,4)

 

My assumption here is you wa= nted to express, that when every requirement of every flow is known upfront=   it is possible tailor the network most exactly according to these fl= ows.

What I want to say here is, = that I think that words like "best" / "better", "w= orse" or similar words are not a good fit here. It's all about the req= uirements of the flows and how many of these flows are you able to serve within such a network. Some depend on minimal latency, some on minim= al jitter and other require a maximum of availability.

 

If my assumption is true, I = suggest a sentence according the lines of the

following:=

--> "Here it is poss= ible to tailor the network most exactly according the requirements of the f= lows."

 

----------------------------= --------

 

The same holds true for:

=1B$B"M=1B(B "Oth= er queuing methods  (e.g. the credit-based shaper defined in [IEEE8021= Q] section 8.6.8.2) can be used for dynamic flow creation, but yield poorer latency and  buffer space guarantees than when that same queuing meth= od is used for static flow creation (Section 3.1.1)." (Last sentence o= f Page 5)

 

Is the intention here to say= , that someone who wants to be able to establish flows in a simple and dyna= mic way has to do some kind of over provision to get the desired flexibilit= y (regarding bandwidth, latency, buffer space ...).

This is true. But in my view= this doesn't make it "poorer". It's just the price to pay for fl= exibility combined with a simple controller plane.

 

----------------------------= --------

 

Within the text, beginning w= ith page 12, the term "max_packet_length" is used multiple times.= I suggest to use the term "max_burst_size". This would leave it = open to use multiple frames as one burst.

 

----------------------------= --------

 

While I read the section &qu= ot;Credit-Based Shaper with Asynchronous Traffic Shaping" two question= s arised:

 

-  Why is there such a = focus on exactly this combination on features selected out of the many poss= ibilities TSN provides?

- What makes it special oppo= sed to only use ATS?

 

 

 

Thank you all for your great= work so far on all this papers within DetNet.

 

 

Greetings,

Juergen

 

 

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To: "detnet@ietf.org" , "Le Boudec Jean-Yves (jean-yves.leboudec@epfl.ch)" Thread-Topic: DetNet Security Considerations 17Dec19 call notes Thread-Index: AdW1+D5h3czPQaBOTtqNxVCaHTizuQ== Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 23:12:09 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-dg-ref: PG1ldGE+PGF0IG5tPSJib2R5Lmh0bWwiIHA9ImM6XHVzZXJzXGVhZ3Jvc1xhcHBkYXRhXHJvYW1pbmdcMDlkODQ5YjYtMzJkMy00YTQwLTg1ZWUtNmI4NGJhMjllMzViXG1zZ3NcbXNnLWNmOGM3YjZhLTIxZWItMTFlYS1iOTEyLTg0ZmRkMTNjZDRjZlxhbWUtdGVzdFxjZjhjN2I2Yi0yMWViLTExZWEtYjkxMi04NGZkZDEzY2Q0Y2Zib2R5Lmh0bWwiIHN6PSIxMjQzOSIgdD0iMTMyMjExODQzMjgzMjU3MzI0IiBoPSJPTHhZZnpmYXRrV3EwSHRXUk8wNVg5dUt0Rk09IiBpZD0iIiBibD0iMCIgYm89IjEiLz48L21ldGE+ authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=eagros@dolby.com; x-originating-ip: [8.39.141.5] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cb239e27-5c33-4a85-fb10-08d7840fb538 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR06MB4342: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0255DF69B9 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(366004)(376002)(346002)(39850400004)(136003)(396003)(53754006)(199004)(189003)(81156014)(2906002)(5660300002)(86362001)(9326002)(8936002)(26005)(4743002)(7696005)(478600001)(81166006)(15650500001)(6506007)(9686003)(33656002)(66556008)(66446008)(55016002)(66946007)(66476007)(110136005)(76116006)(71200400001)(316002)(64756008)(186003)(52536014)(8676002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR06MB4342; H:BYAPR06MB4325.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: dolby.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR06MB4325B8B7A61DB7A73F6ACB77C4530BYAPR06MB4325namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: dolby.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cb239e27-5c33-4a85-fb10-08d7840fb538 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Dec 2019 23:12:09.4801 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 05408d25-cd0d-40c8-8962-5462de64a318 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: KIg4AlSyvMZj1eQ52L1yW0TkyGBJ5Uj4W6XQonCIOyFM5ehqLfljCMlCKkuKiqbrnRSyvzx6CNMM7zYoraFYag== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR06MB4342 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] DetNet Security Considerations 17Dec19 call notes X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 23:12:14 -0000 --_000_BYAPR06MB4325B8B7A61DB7A73F6ACB77C4530BYAPR06MB4325namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Here are my notes on the DetNet Security call we had last week (attendees: = Stewart Bryant, David Black and me). Thus far I have not made any changes t= o the draft, because the implications of the discussions below, if implemen= ted, could result in a significant revision of the draft, and I would like = to hear what y'all think about the proposed direction. So please put in you= r $0.02. Jean-Yves, if you're out there, I would be particularly interested in your = input since I know you have experience with observing non-DetNet-WG peoples= ' reactions to the draft in its current form. Reminder that we have scheduled another call for Tuesday Jan 21, 2020, 10am= . Thanks, Ethan (as DetNet Security Draft editor) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * On recommendation for using IPSec for DetNet IP - problem: Can't see = enough of the flow to do flow differentiation; e.g. need 6tuple but is alwa= ys hidden in IPSec. Lou wrote that section, need to check with him. * We want to set the initial expectation that the DetNet network to be = secured is already a well-designed and well-managed network (other possible= phrasing: "a traffic-managed, controlled environment" or "a traffic-engine= ered network") following existing best practices. We assume that all such r= elevant characteristics are in place as a starting place for this DetNet Se= curity Considerations draft/discussion. We can thus simplify our draft by s= etting this assumption. Having the draft be shorter is a positive step. * Regarding control plane - we can state that every Control Plane has t= o be well managed and secured by industry standard practice - this removes = the need to say a lot of the specific things we say in the draft. * We want to the initial expectation that the reader will be familiar w= ith the DetNet Use Cases draft, because that is where the "expectations" (n= ot saying "requirements") regarding security are stated, since there is no = DetNet Security Requirements ("Expectations") draft. (As a result, our inte= ntion is to remove Sec 8. Appendix A: DetNet Draft Security-Related Stateme= nts from the draft - any objections to that?) In review if someone says som= ething about lack of specific security "requirements" to review the draft a= gainst, we can point to the Use Cases drafts. (This is normal in IETF specs= - each RFC is a chapter in the book, assumed reader will read all of chapt= ers. Contrast with other organization specifications which are more self-co= ntained). * An MPLS network is inherently more secure than an IP network, because= with MPLS it is difficult to introduce a rogue LSR or PE into the network,= compared with IP, in which a random device is less difficult to introduce = onto the network (and from there send packets into the network). An MPLS ne= twork is highly managed by its provider, e.g. BT, ATT, etc. Nothing gets in= there. * In contrast to a PW model for MPLS, an IP model can be thought of as = an overlay model, so the goal is to protect the overlay forwarding resource= s. To do that, we need to manage the network as tightly as an MPLS network,= equivalent to MPLS-TE. Need to have that as a starting point - should be "= this is a mega tight network, nothing gets in that we don't allow in". * Another way to phrase this is like "with a standard IT network, we ma= nage it at least as well as a VPN". We have a lot of experience with VPNs r= unning through networks with other VPNs, we know how to do that. Perhaps th= is could be pointed out somewhere near the text that says that legacy OT ne= tworks are "isolated" (meaning "air gapped") (from e.g. the IT network) and= are thus less susceptible to attack. Assume VPN characteristics, but note= that any "bumping into" (interference) of one packet with another can have= an effect. * Network slicing - could this be used for DetNet? Or is it that DetNet= could be used to implement slicing? This is a meta-problem at architecture= level; Perhaps the world has changed since Arch doc was written. Lots of p= eople working on slicing now, e.g. for 3GPP. Perhaps Lou's work in TEAS on = TE'd VPN is relevant? Two strategies for this: Classical MPLS model vs SR m= odel. Issue of stealing resources - we could describe this as an issue, or = maybe could even refer to slice drafts, but we don't want to be held up by = those drafts. Point is that others are thinking about this. * Draft needs to set out principles, good quality abstract models, rath= er than details; currently the draft has too many details. Not enough focus= on delay and packet loss considerations, which are the core. Current draft= focus is explicit on "now" technologies, as opposed to setting considerati= ons for any technology. Need to establish what they need to do to conform = to security considerations. Current draft is drilled down into classical ex= isting world, perhaps not the world we will find in the future. Need to rev= iew what we can assume is known, and what we have to do to encompass variou= s technologies. * Section 3 - seems like a basic tutorial on security threats? Is that = level of tutorial needed, given the expectations set above? For example Int= ernal vs external, access to segments, all standard in secured traffic engi= neered MPLS networks. Can assume that is taken care of. But delaying a pack= et is more significant, can be very subtle, need to focus more on that. * Regarding DetNet to transfer clocking - could be beneficial to clock = distribution, however if using PREOF then it could be detrimental to clock = sync and ranging. Need to teach people that there are limitations - is this= the place for that? We are clear that we are not addressing how time is to= be distributed in a DetNet network, but maybe a caveat is in order? Clock = xfer is subtle, few understand it. * Not discussing what a data plane needs to do or how it would do it, b= ut describe properties it needs to have in order to conform to security pro= perties or expectations or needs. That is, we need to state expectations of= DP, how it would meet requirements, but if it can't, how it would mitigate= them. For example, consider a requirement for "IT traffic must not affect = DetNet traffic". So a possible implementation, as one would do in a non-tim= e-sensitive network is to put them in their own VPNs or MPLS tunnels to ens= ure they run independently. However DetNet special since packets "bumping i= nto" other packets can be a problem. We need to say that they have to prov= ide this isolation, but not how to provide it. So we can say something like= "forwarding bandwidth (and related resources) must be protected so that th= ey are available to detnet traffic". How they do it is up to the dataplane = designers. Otherwise we end up committing to solve an infinite number of pr= oblems, and possibly limit options of designers to innovate or otherwise so= lve problems. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_BYAPR06MB4325B8B7A61DB7A73F6ACB77C4530BYAPR06MB4325namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

Here are my notes on the DetNet Security call we had= last week (attendees: Stewart Bryant, David Black and me). Thus far I have= not made any changes to the draft, because the implications of the discuss= ions below, if implemented, could result in a significant revision of the draft, and I would like to hear wh= at y’all think about the proposed direction. So please put in your $0= .02.

Jean-Yves, if you’re out there, I would be par= ticularly interested in your input since I know you have experience with ob= serving non-DetNet-WG peoples’ reactions to the draft in its current = form.

Reminder that we have scheduled another call for Tue= sday Jan 21, 2020, 10am.

Thanks,

Ethan (as DetNet Security Draft editor) <= /p>

----------------------------------------------------= -------------------

  • On recommendation for using IPSec for DetNet IP – problem: Can&= #8217;t see enough of the flow to do flow differentiation; e.g. need 6tuple= but is always hidden in IPSec. Lou wrote that section, need to check with him.
  • We want to set the initial e= xpectation that the DetNet network to be secured is already a well-designed= and well-managed network (other possible phrasing: “a traffic-manage= d, controlled environment” or “a traffic-engineered network”) followin= g existing best practices. We assume that all such relevant characteristics= are in place as a starting place for this DetNet Security Considerations d= raft/discussion. We can thus simplify our draft by setting this assumption. Having the draft be shorter is a positive step. <= o:p>
  • Regarding control plane – we can state that ever= y Control Plane has to be well managed and secured by industry standard pra= ctice – this removes the need to say a lot of the specific things we say in the draft.
  • We want to the initial ex= pectation that the reader will be familiar with the DetNet Use Cases draft,= because that is where the “expectations” (not saying “re= quirements”) regarding security are stated, since there is no DetNet Security Requirements (̶= 0;Expectations”) draft. (As a result, our intention is to remove Sec = 8. Appendix A: DetNet Draft Security-Related Statements from the draft R= 11; any objections to that?) In review if someone says something about lack of specific security “requirements” = to review the draft against, we can point to the Use Cases drafts. (This is= normal in IETF specs – each RFC is a chapter in the book, assumed re= ader will read all of chapters. Contrast with other organization specifications which are more self-contained).
  • An MPLS network is inherently more secure than an IP network, becaus= e with MPLS it is difficult to introduce a rogue LSR or PE into the network= , compared with IP, in which a random device is less difficult to introduce onto the network (and from there sen= d packets into the network). An MPLS network is highly managed by its provi= der, e.g. BT, ATT, etc. Nothing gets in there.
  • In cont= rast to a PW model for MPLS, an IP model can be thought of as an overlay mo= del, so the goal is to protect the overlay forwarding resources. To do that= , we need to manage the network as tightly as an MPLS network, equivalent to MPLS-TE. Need to have= that as a starting point – should be “this is a mega tight net= work, nothing gets in that we don’t allow in”.
  • Another way to phrase this is like “with a stan= dard IT network, we manage it at least as well as a VPN”. We have a l= ot of experience with VPNs running through networks with other VPNs, we know how to do that. Perhaps this could be pointed out somewhere near t= he text that says that legacy OT networks are “isolated” (meani= ng “air gapped”) (from e.g. the IT network) and are thus less s= usceptible to attack.  Assume VPN characteristics, but note that any “bumping into” (interference) of one packet with anot= her can have an effect.
  • Network slicing – could = this be used for DetNet? Or is it that DetNet could be used to implement sl= icing? This is a meta-problem at architecture level; Perhaps the world has = changed since Arch doc was written. Lots of people working on slicing now, e.g. fo= r 3GPP. Perhaps Lou’s work in TEAS on TE’d VPN is relevant? Two= strategies for this: Classical MPLS model vs SR model. Issue of stealing r= esources – we could describe this as an issue, or maybe could even refer to slice drafts, but we don’t want to be h= eld up by those drafts. Point is that others are thinking about this.<= /o:p>
  • Draft needs to set out principles, good quality abstract mo= dels, rather than details; currently the draft has too many details. Not en= ough focus on delay and packet loss considerations, which are the core. Current draft focus is explicit on “now” t= echnologies, as opposed to setting considerations for any technology. Need = to establish  what they need to do to conform to security consideratio= ns. Current draft is drilled down into classical existing world, perhaps not the world we will find in the future. Need to = review what we can assume is known, and what we have to do to encompass var= ious technologies.
  • Section 3 – seems like a basi= c tutorial on security threats? Is that level of tutorial needed, given the= expectations set above? For example Internal vs external, access to segmen= ts, all standard in secured traffic engineered MPLS networks. Can assume that = is taken care of. But delaying a packet is more significant, can be very su= btle, need to focus more on that.
  • Regarding DetNet to transfer clocking – could b= e beneficial to clock distribution, however if using PREOF then it could be= detrimental to clock sync and ranging. Need to teach people that there are limitations – is this the place for that? We are clea= r that we are not addressing how time is to be distributed in a DetNet netw= ork, but maybe a caveat is in order? Clock xfer is subtle, few understand i= t.
  • Not discussing what a data plane needs to do or how= it would do it, but describe properties it needs to have in order to confo= rm to security properties or expectations or needs. That is, we need to state expectations of DP, how it would meet requirements, b= ut if it can’t, how it would mitigate them. For example, consider a r= equirement for “IT traffic must not affect DetNet traffic”. So = a possible implementation, as one would do in a non-time-sensitive network is to put them in their own VPNs or MPLS tunnels to ensure they ru= n independently. However DetNet special since packets “bumping into&#= 8221; other packets can be a problem.  We need to say that they have t= o provide this isolation, but not how to provide it. So we can say something like “forwarding bandwidth (and related = resources) must be protected so that they are available to detnet traffic&#= 8221;. How they do it is up to the dataplane designers. Otherwise we end up= committing to solve an infinite number of problems, and possibly limit options of designers to innovate or otherwise solve pro= blems.

----------------------------------------------------= -------------------

--_000_BYAPR06MB4325B8B7A61DB7A73F6ACB77C4530BYAPR06MB4325namp_-- From nobody Fri Dec 20 17:33:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5097E1209F3 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b8QdjT6g-kw6 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x534.google.com (mail-ed1-x534.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::534]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45FD21209EB for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id t17so10285567eds.6 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jJSS92cUHhDZ9hsXG5h8BQ/0QUchSfEXGsr+WXaHeR8=; b=TCK4VCPeB3kfzUFJw/X1HtHsRPwDGYkP8kY4vESN2fgj6DgN0kwr7xjJOA/kIt8aie D6Z6TYEuiqTjPYU5+6HJT5ZWaWrvVzfgMS+N8xJ5lxCjLfxOoYKrPUKPe+Qxt5Ax7E9m agCm48MTeSScVqzpxq4eyZs37ZzCuceMp/hbnJbpQLpYYQ+Rzc4MJnLoz5d5RQpY3FP4 ShUetzZ6CD6HKF53pKCY/rHLmqeiVs3dOH8A26j2rYStzaM6S9EN9SMSSgn5DDpxvBOt Y3WHMVY6HFHawXB4H8UxL0pLD3rqOSKdZIsFsuwhB1IwNdLw1hh5KEYkZeHoRsVDkjuC pYrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jJSS92cUHhDZ9hsXG5h8BQ/0QUchSfEXGsr+WXaHeR8=; b=RlODYPVlEw3fCSntmU8IfsaQTGdrsuLeePGNFCHP3mX5UfaJwnP/TY/INPArUx1XnI fpIzQOFQjSckr0AiBAFosqLvld4mwwPUcdxeFzKQHoh3V9IaRVi8u5F48naA1buYgaD4 Sul+aDVhgxXzG164dPCyQV9xpH7JujNh8TT1vYxALI1TFWSaPTzMiw2ewUU4T+c1xBqj mnQ3B9HpZ2vul7UJcM1GhrZxAr+EoHm+NgPahruv1V65Ih/jzjyfDZJquUiLjyc3um1C CI0ujwvNHBBBs+mMlsPH+ChCNQdM6CUeAkxPZuAtFmL2vUSrWgLoTmu3qqsVVMcPauE2 neXg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVbMoWDidXOncU35LYPcV/NI4s6rVseTudLZTrpvctiIwqek1hh wzYzledVKc2OzM5/VpKhEXRv/HPQ8E+tLaY4gGhQxA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx/8Xt26VzVFr4RlHDvC+TiDWs2LjlfPQaMG3aISO/fxZ0KmfG/EVnWV7OuNpDBh/rEjI+CUJY91WPXRaXodWo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:aad0:: with SMTP id kt16mr19054257ejb.223.1576891993681; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stig Venaas Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:33:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: "" Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-ip.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-04.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:33:17 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-04.txt Reviewer: Stig Venaas Review Date: 2019-12-20 IETF LC End Date: Intended Status: Standards Track Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: The document is fairly easy to read and of good quality. But I still have some very minor issues that I think need to be resolved. There are also some nits. I'm not that familiar with DetNet, some things might be more clear if familiar with the technology. Major Issues: No major issues found. Minor Issues: In section 3: It is slightly confusing that the text discusses 6-tuples, and then references RFC 3670 regarding 5-tuples. It would be good to mention how the 6-tuples here relate to the 5-tuples in RFC 3670. It says: Note: The sub-network can represent a TSN, MPLS or IP network segment. This document only covers IP, right? Or does it cover IP with these sub-network technologies as well? I don't know if it is is good to list the other options here. Perhaps new ones may be added later in other ocuments? Maybe rephrase it so they are examples rather than a complete list? In section 4.1: In order to maximize reuse of existing mechanisms, DetNet-aware applications and end systems SHOULD NOT mix DetNet and non-DetNet traffic within a single 5-tuple. Should this be 6-tuple? If not, please be specific what the 5-tuple is here. Same as in RFC 3670? I see the 5-tuple is also mentioned at the end of section 4.2. In section 4.2: As a general rule, DetNet IP domains need to be able to forward any DetNet flow identified by the IP 6-tuple. Doing otherwise would limit the number of 6-tuple flow ID combinations that could be used by the end systems. From a practical standpoint this means that all nodes along the end-to-end path of DetNet flows need to agree on what fields are used for flow identification, and the transport protocols (e.g., TCP/UDP/IPsec) which can be used to identify 6-tuple protocol ports. What does protocol ports mean? Is it which transport protocol includes the source and destination port number in the 6-tuple? This should be rephrased I think, since e.g. IPsec SPI may be used. I guess you may be saying that the SPI indirectly identify the ports? Nits: In section 1: layer is used to provides ^^^^^^^ In 2.2. Abbreviations It seems random which ones have a period at the end. I'm sure the RFC Editor can help, but maybe add or remove it everywhere? Section 5.3: Implementations if this document Should be of ^^^^ Some references are outdated according to idnits. 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"detnet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Detnet] Comments on draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-01 Thread-Index: AdWvZjPzAtYe4KdwSxSIZREi7uAhMgADD6GQAlskgoA= Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 16:46:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, fr-CH Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [46.245.77.175] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF2A651DEBB74CBCBA75CE5BEA7A7EB7epflch_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Comments on draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-01 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 16:46:59 -0000 --_000_BF2A651DEBB74CBCBA75CE5BEA7A7EB7epflch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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APjAAAUwbBUpwd55ewxC+6nKrWjgIjJwu+7UHCRkcQrdmI7w6RWQut1g r0jhK0GftWYFP2RIWEA0wlQmqbtxuNf7hQI6d5N9gtMC X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwzdOfxOI/cugqSF3uiq8JzKrpMfecZluuVtkyjmjaMGdyB4+xNzbPFqgLvC+laBzAZOCaZtbfR+Dbwj2pediA= X-Received: by 2002:a19:2d0d:: with SMTP id k13mr14435899lfj.12.1577041393188; Sun, 22 Dec 2019 11:03:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Harish Sitaraman Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 11:03:02 -0800 Message-ID: To: rtg-ads@ietf.org Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] RtgDir Review: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 19:03:21 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip-04.txt Reviewer: Harish Sitaraman Review Date: Dec 22, 2019 IETF LC End Date: date-if-known Intended Status: Standards Track Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: The document is concise and focussed. I'm not as familiar with the work of the DetNet WG so I quickly skimmed through some of the related drafts. Major Issues: No major issues found. Minor Issues: Section 1, last paragraph: "These requirements are satisfied by the DetNet over MPLS Encapsulation described in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] and they are partly satisfied by the DetNet IP data plane defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-ip]" Please explicitly mention which subset of the requirements are satisfied by ietf-detnet-ip since the text mentions "partly satisfied"? For MPLS, it seems apparent since prior to listing the requirements, the text says "(these are a subset of the requirements for MPLS encapsulation listed in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls])". Section 3: "In case of aggregates the A-Label is treated as an S-Label and it too is not modified." I couldn't understand the usage of "aggregates" here - Is this referring to A-label used only at the aggregation end-point but not as dis-aggregation end-point? If there is not distinction, the maybe A-label can be clubbed into the previous sentence as not being modified. Section 4: "The headers for each outgoing packet MUST be formatted according to the configuration information and as defined in [RFC7510], with one exception. Note that the UDP Source Port value MUST be set to uniquely identify the DetNet flow." The MUST in the first sentence above is used along with an exception, which I think the next sentence "Note that..." clarifies on how the source port should be set. Would it be possible to remove "with one exception" and stitch the two sentences together to be more more precise? "This includes QoS related traffic treatment." - I assume this is IP ToS/DSCP and not MPLS EXP? Is traffic treatment relevant for receive processing in the next paragraph? Section 5: "e.g., via the controller or management plane" Would it be better to use "...via the controller plane [RFC8655]" since the next paragraph starts using controller plane? Nits: Section 4: "To support receive processing an implementation" - add a comma after 'processing'. It might be preferable to replace "receive processing" (I noticed a prior use in the DetNet MPLS draft and not in the base RFC) with "To support processing incoming DetNet MPLS over UDP/IP encapsulation..." to be specific. Section 4: The packet MUST then be handed as ^^^^^^^ Section 5: multiple sets of UPD/IP information ^^^^ needed to provided the traffic treatment => s/provided/provide ^^^^^^^^ Section 9, References: Re-run to pull in latest versions of drafts. -- Harish From nobody Mon Dec 23 16:03:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E223212002F; Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:03:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Carlos Pignataro via Datatracker To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.115.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Carlos Pignataro Message-ID: <157714579482.2458.7370182245915799132@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:03:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-04 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 00:03:15 -0000 Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro Review result: Has Issues Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see ​http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-04 Reviewer: Carlos Pignataro Review Date: December 2019 Intended Status: Proposed Standard Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. [Resolving, in this context, means discussing and responding to, some of these would and others would not imply changes] This document specifies the Deterministic Networking data plane when operating over an MPLS Packet Switched Networks. Major Issues: Minor Issues: The document lists 7 (i.e, more than 5) authors. A am somewhat confused regarding how some of these DETNET dataplane documents interact, interface, and intersect with each other. Where are requirements ultimately coming from for any variety of dataplanes? Specifically: * draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework-03 targets Informational (should be STD?) but seems to include foundational Reqs. * draft-ietf-detnet-ip for IP * draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls for IP over MPLS * draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-tsn and draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-tsn for X over TSN * draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-over-udp-ip and draft-ietf-detnet-mpls for MPLS Among all of these, where are really the requirements for MPLS? and for IP? Is there a "Roadmap" or Rosetta Stone to understand these? There are many permutations of X-over-Y. I appreciate that, not having followed DETNET discussions, I am likely missing something. 3.1. Layers of DetNet Data Plane The DetNet control word (d-CW) conforms to the Generic PW MPLS Control Word (PWMCW) defined in [RFC4385]. Yes, but why not the Preferred CW? 4.1. DetNet Over MPLS Encapsulation Components The LSP used to forward the DetNet packet may be of any type (MPLS- LDP, MPLS-TE, MPLS-TP [RFC5921], or MPLS-SR [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls]). I am not sure of the value of this statement for an "MPLS Dataplane" document. Further, are these "LSP Types" and if so where are the different types ennumerated? Does this mean that static binding LSPs and BGP signaled cannto be used? T-LDP does not work? "SDN Assigned"? I recommend removing this, since it can confuse and does not add much. 4.3. OAM Indication It is important to have the OAM Indication, but what type of OAM packets can run on top of this AcH? I found it interesting that for example there is not reference or citation to RFC 8029. Nits: 2.2. Abbreviations The following abbreviations are used in this document: Many of these abbreviations are well-known, many others have authoritative definitions and expansions. I believe this section should point to the appropriate RFCs for LSR, CW, PE, OAM, etc... Also, interesting, this section does not expand LSE, and I think it should use it. 4.6.1. Class of Service Should this include "and TTL" in the title? I was looking for TTL specs in the Table of Contents but could not find it. 9.2. Informative References Are all the "draft-ietf-detnet-*" really Informative? Also, outdated reference: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls has been published as RFC 8660 [RFC8655] Finn, N., Thubert, P., Varga, B., and J. Farkas, "Deterministic Networking Architecture", RFC 8655, DOI 10.17487/RFC8655, October 2019, . And is this also Informational? Thank you! Carlos Pignataro. From nobody Tue Dec 24 06:26:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E37A1200CD; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4LDqSDo9gQRE; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E73C6120018; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id c127so2073300wme.1; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=TD0y42VJ+czEGKyOI1g0F6GtlWHxW6iyY1t5zCciZEk=; b=igAlG1bwxwwBICRAo/YraDBLerNZlbfrrmLfqafzoDQblIz9AjJtwnuWBgI3RKsnY0 LgV6IS2eWSe9E5TsOyfB5yp6gkw2B9Ce1odK0YKgrTFIYVzutRwN+vYfT7TTbNZJuwUq jBOL2Wytsye6eeOPDoD2OThH7TRhWnk3NF/WggVZtSGilCdGUukJEbXAVm1T4HDhqGJo JDj+KxKQnuK/q3eJQN6RMUVK0pum9ODjjlqxH93I1D6Xfei8B43eu0a29MND8S1NTV0F 2S2cPpfbcifX2BFoWHeGYOUQ4Zhf59bi3/fgYki/D0n/IyIM0tq/B/e/wBHDhXRM69BA WXJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=TD0y42VJ+czEGKyOI1g0F6GtlWHxW6iyY1t5zCciZEk=; b=GP6TuAP4tJkL/nl1qiEfcNlk1KucjXBqlfx+zcO5+eNlAHgkcZjZdUpZQgAjI5SAKn mXX/MH41dnk9oJepOJOyQwU0XZN8ERHdz+WDWBZ+vWBmWAGgLu4f6hlqxVK+hgFJS+5o 2vtM2njz/H1uFWkFLb1hsRnECrja2KfZEbG1lzEEHk7aXpQodEmzYErjunRzGx2wTHYQ +p08lo+63JppiUK1Ak0Fi86F6CvnHCyPkbBDZwfEFsIMy1sdoaGazy0THVbsAbMaKjSf Yoa7rjT3frbu32d5t3uJeUAKIlfvZ8p8lA+Me2jOcLFSmUcYUDoDfk9LKmNRKLYao+6x k4Kg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVOAKSWD3/fORtgUg4xBvrpC0ycIYNATfsfSdcjfGJYpMBCJ/zx nUitHdHk/y8ySeMEtumJfrM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwQFUZDFEcgc/QTuH7NUbUVffL+/hsE+Xyj6sQWsUPLnK5Yq0INgx07fu2C53VROD30rxounA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:22d3:: with SMTP id 19mr4514760wmg.92.1577197566396; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from appleton.fritz.box ([62.3.64.16]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o7sm2706183wmh.11.2019.12.24.06.26.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Dec 2019 06:26:05 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Bryant Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C55F36C1-48CC-4CEB-A554-53314B3F434C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 14:26:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: <157714579482.2458.7370182245915799132@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-mpls.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org To: Carlos Pignataro References: <157714579482.2458.7370182245915799132@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-04 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 14:26:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C55F36C1-48CC-4CEB-A554-53314B3F434C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 24 Dec 2019, at 00:03, Carlos Pignataro via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 >=20 > 3.1. Layers of DetNet Data Plane >=20 > The DetNet control word (d-CW) > conforms to the Generic PW MPLS Control Word (PWMCW) defined in > [RFC4385]. >=20 > Yes, but why not the Preferred CW? >=20 Hi Carlos Thanks for the review. Just picking up a couple of points at this stage, The PCW only supports a 16bit sequence number and it has the skip zero = auto-signalling of active S/N feature. This was a problem for DetNet because: - We were worried about S/N rollover frequency in some applications and = so we wanted the option of a larger S/N. - We wanted to have the option to propagate the S/N from the payload to = the transport to simplify the implementation in some cases. These = applications have a non-skip zero S/N. Skip zero is an irritation to = implement and we should probably have signalled in in PWs. As you note in is only a preferred design for PWs, DetNet is not = constrained by that and there were good reasons to adopt this alternate = approach, > 4.1. DetNet Over MPLS Encapsulation Components >=20 > The LSP used to forward the DetNet packet may be of any type (MPLS- > LDP, MPLS-TE, MPLS-TP [RFC5921], or MPLS-SR > [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls]). >=20 > I am not sure of the value of this statement for an "MPLS Dataplane" = document. > Further, are these "LSP Types" and if so where are the different types > ennumerated? Does this mean that static binding LSPs and BGP signaled = cannto be > used? T-LDP does not work? "SDN Assigned"? I recommend removing this, = since it > can confuse and does not add much. I think it just needs a =E2=80=9Cfor example=E2=80=9D and I think that = it needs to be made clear that the design is not restricted to a single = method of establishing an LSP nor to the characteristics and constraints = that go with those LSPs. >=20 > 4.3. OAM Indication >=20 > It is important to have the OAM Indication, but what type of OAM = packets can > run on top of this AcH? I found it interesting that for example there = is not > reference or citation to RFC 8029. >=20 Work has started on OAM, for example draft-mirsky-detnet-mpls-oam-00 The OAM for DetNet will be more complex than the OAM for a classical P2P = or P2MP LSP (or PW) because of the PREOF function. There is nothing in = the data plane that precludes us using on of the existing OAM indicators = (GAL or 0001 ACH), but I think that it is important to thing through the = subtleties. Thus I think it is OK to make progress on the elements of = the data plane that we can nail down, and leave. The OAM as follow-up = work. >=20 >=20 > Also, outdated reference: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls has = been > published as RFC 8660 This will get picked up on the next resin as part of the Nits check. Best regards Stewart= --Apple-Mail=_C55F36C1-48CC-4CEB-A554-53314B3F434C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On 24 Dec 2019, at 00:03, Carlos Pignataro via Datatracker = <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:


3.1.  Layers of DetNet = Data Plane

  The DetNet control = word (d-CW)
  conforms to the Generic PW MPLS = Control Word (PWMCW) defined in
  [RFC4385].

Yes, but why not the Preferred CW?


Hi Carlos

Thanks= for the review. Just picking up a couple of points at this = stage,

The PCW only supports a 16bit = sequence number and it has the skip zero auto-signalling of active S/N = feature.

This was a problem for = DetNet because:

- We were worried = about S/N rollover frequency in some applications and so we wanted the = option of a larger S/N.

- We wanted = to have the option to propagate the S/N from the payload to the = transport to simplify the implementation in some cases. These = applications have a non-skip zero S/N. Skip zero is an irritation to = implement and we should probably have signalled in in PWs.

As you note in is only a preferred design for PWs, = DetNet is not constrained by that and there were good reasons to adopt = this alternate approach,



4.1.  DetNet Over MPLS Encapsulation = Components

  The LSP used to = forward the DetNet packet may be of any type (MPLS-
=   LDP, MPLS-TE, MPLS-TP [RFC5921], or MPLS-SR
=   [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls]).

I am not sure of the value of this statement for an "MPLS = Dataplane" document.
Further, are these "LSP Types" and if = so where are the different types
ennumerated? Does this = mean that static binding LSPs and BGP signaled cannto be
used? T-LDP does not work? "SDN Assigned"? I recommend = removing this, since it
can confuse and does not add = much.

I think it just needs a =E2=80=9Cfor example=E2=80=9D= and I think that it needs to be made clear that the design is not = restricted to a single method of establishing an LSP nor to the = characteristics and constraints that go with those LSPs.


4.3.  OAM Indication

It is important to have the OAM Indication, but what type of = OAM packets can
run on top of this AcH? I found it = interesting that for example there is not
reference or = citation to RFC 8029.


Work = has started on OAM, for example draft-mirsky-detnet-mpls-oam-00
The OAM for DetNet will be more = complex than the OAM for a classical P2P or P2MP LSP (or PW) because of = the PREOF function. There is nothing in the data plane that precludes us = using on of the existing OAM indicators (GAL or 0001 ACH), but I think = that it is important to thing through the subtleties. Thus I think it is = OK to make progress on the elements of the data plane that we can nail = down, and leave. The OAM as follow-up work.




Also, outdated reference: = draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls has been
published = as RFC 8660

This will = get picked up on the next resin as part of the Nits check.

Best regards

Stewart
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Pgp0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBpbmZvcm0gdXMgYnkgZS1tYWlsLCBwaG9u ZSBvciBmYXgsIGFuZCB0aGVuIGRlbGV0ZSB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgPEJSPgphbmQgYWxsIGNvcGll cyB0aGVyZW9mLjxCUj4KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fPEJSPgo8L2JvZHk+CjwvaHRtbD4KCg== --_000_DB8PR03MB5865E272423112C88345259A9D2B0DB8PR03MB5865eurp_-- From nobody Thu Dec 26 17:35:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DC11200E7; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:35:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IcdenDgEmt5I; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp (dish-sg.nttdocomo.co.jp [202.19.227.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE27112009C; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:35:10 -0800 (PST) X-dD-Source: Outbound Received: from zssg-mailmd102.ddreams.local (zssg-mailmd900.ddreams.local [10.160.172.63]) by zssg-mailou101.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9421200CC; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:35:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailcc302.ddreams.local (zssg-mailcc302.ddreams.local [10.160.162.153]) by zssg-mailmd102.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTP id <0Q3500BK6DQLE750@dDREAMS>; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:35:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailcc301 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zssg-mailcc302.ddreams.local (unknown) with SMTP id xBR1Z9cw057719; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:35:09 +0900 Received: from zssg-mailmf105.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by zssg-mailmf105.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01D17E6036; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailmf105.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE12C8E6064; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with SMTP id EBF388E6060; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:59 +0900 (JST) X-IMSS-HAND-OFF-DIRECTIVE: localhost:10026 Received: from zssg-mailmf105.ddreams.local (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5857C8E605A; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from zssg-mailua104.ddreams.local (unknown [10.160.172.62]) by zssg-mailmf105.ddreams.local (Postfix) with ESMTP; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from rcR9102252 (unknown [10.171.97.103]) by zssg-mailua104.ddreams.local (dDREAMS) with ESMTPA id <0Q3500OL7DQ3HSE0@dDREAMS>; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:52 +0900 (JST) From: Tomonori Takeda Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 10:34:51 +0900 Message-id: <002901d5bc55$d5a7be80$80f73b80$@hco.ntt.co.jp_1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-language: ja Thread-index: AdW8VUZIypvNeO5fRWyfvB/SOOAvQA== X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 To: rtg-ads@ietf.org Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls.all@ietf.org, detnet@ietf.org X-CC-Mail-RelayStamp: CC/Mail Relayed Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-04.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 01:35:16 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see : http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-04.txt Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda Review Date: Dec 27th, 2019 IETF LC End Date: Not known Intended Status: Standards Track o Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. o Comments: This document specifies data plane procedures for Detnet IP over Detnet MPLS, using Detnet IP and Detnet MPLS specified in other documents. This document is fairly straight-forward based on related documents (detnet-ip, detnet-mpls, detnet-data-plane-framework, RFC8655). o Major Issues: None o Minor Issues: I am a bit confused how "aggregation" is applied in Detnet IP over Detnet MPLS. In Section 3, it says, "an IP flow is mapped to one or more PWs and MPLS (TE) LSPs." By reading detnet-mpls, aggregation (aggregating individual flows and their associated resource into a larger aggregate ) is achieved via LSP hierarchy. Does this mean that in Detnet IP over Detnet MPLS context, LSP hierarchy is mandatory for aggregation? Or is it possible to map multiple Detnet IP flows into one PW as an aggregate? I think it is better clarify this in the document. Nits: - It seems text in Section 5.1 references wrong sections. For example, - "the procedures defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 6.1." (which does not exist). - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 5.4." (which does not exist). - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-ip] Section 7.1." (which does not exist). - It is good to have "PRF" and "PEF/POF" in Section 2.2 (Abbreviations). Thanks, Tomonori From nobody Fri Dec 27 11:08:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietf.org Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0925F1208E0; Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:08:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: lberger@labn.net, detnet@ietf.org, db3546@att.com, detnet-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.115.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157747368900.29986.2211348586850195556.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 11:08:09 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Detnet] detnet - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 107 X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 19:08:09 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the detnet working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Deterministic Networking Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: pce teas netmod mpls raw Technology Overlap: ccamp tsvwg lsr bess pals rtgwg sfc Key Participant Conflict: nvo3 bfd People who must be present: Lou Berger David L. Black Deborah Brungard Janos Farkas Ethan Grossman Resources Requested: Special Requests: One 2.5 hour session please... --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Dec 28 11:01:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: detnet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A0B512011E; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:00:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-XXLQbKQEgd; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf30.google.com (mail-qv1-xf30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EC8612007A; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf30.google.com with SMTP id dp13so11123513qvb.7; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:00:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sca3i46rVQlQU6ke64ZcIZ+vge5BP2nLUqkP7py57h0=; b=UayLNxyZ8em4JmTqiSRZyL16IfSe2vg3IMuRYDPUEWL/MQVZqiZ5OfOgGmVsIR0yXw fNQpK0YzNtFf6za3cWJN9VhZIj6TQRwelUY+Qa/EmuvvNZxUEOiGvfemc87Lo2fh3Mmb 6p+lyCUG4yAkt4hmhiNPh2BitHRL/CfrDIeGDUx9YcaoKEc6UVt7mG28wJ9ujVr0m01s uc+1HgGH0cEwXgzQ5XcxoDUp+49O53vx4sX8jgU5bPtfGIee7TuehEWSMeAE0Es5DxqH zOsZXX5MPO000szrJOVUiz08ZsH1of2RZixJcG+IpNrQQl/fNi1y5cMDtUXeioCkqj4C PgkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sca3i46rVQlQU6ke64ZcIZ+vge5BP2nLUqkP7py57h0=; b=nTSx9e+L8wfYCNIqr3aJE8sMDkM5dVHwZU40q6c3pMxEukOXUJ1VR/ewpretVIbBxT 9ikWHv7cCPAFpC+TobdfsJtFvugKVbnwJE6ZMlcSONVSorq65dP4YxRElyLLvQDMHwB+ s8Vp0gxFi0AgSjd79YL1KxivgO6hQv4OEPcMlSBi3CbGtQ5Pn0ct9Xet+8ohfOiVK7dF qp4BttO4jD1IjYm1PiTlqLbNgVbnAiE4wgchAoWNcUeUq100KfZcrUyHyoUZFpW6NnCF lvAVz3vvl64187GZS8B8sM2tEWgJVDxOJ5A3oA8MTT+dcMiOwc7zsnFqs6XDd0JwVCus CtDA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW7dMKDrOQ/BPXpO9jO+FkuHrExXA5gGXQIc3iD3hYjB+E7UCsK UwJP7dYc/1B4f42NyHUg2XGAlnJVROmqCZcgPMs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxF2LYDK3J28zSBIvBKZNL13L5yriJ3UT/xpNshGN5wPW0r+2MF4o6A5Er+IKVVdIQmSqs0MOzyabRV4OlRMkw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:e58a:: with SMTP id t10mr22781202qvm.161.1577559651420; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:00:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <002901d5bc55$d5a7be80$80f73b80$@hco.ntt.co.jp_1> In-Reply-To: <002901d5bc55$d5a7be80$80f73b80$@hco.ntt.co.jp_1> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 14:00:40 -0500 Message-ID: To: Tomonori Takeda Cc: "" , rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls.all@ietf.org, detnet WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a28fd2059ac83ac9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Detnet] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-04.txt X-BeenThere: detnet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Deterministic Networking BoF and Proposed WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 19:00:56 -0000 --000000000000a28fd2059ac83ac9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Tomonori, Thanks for your review and comments, they are appreciated. Discussion of DetNet flow aggregation is spread among several of the data plane documents. It starts with sections 3.6.2 and 4.2.1 in draft-ietf-detnet-data-plane-framework, and for IP flows in particular continues in section 4.4 of draft-ietf-detnet-ip in addition to the text you quoted in the MPLS draft. So as discussed in section 5.1 of this draft, when carrying DetNet IP flows over a DetNet MPLS backbone, an operator has the choice of using IP and/or MPLS methods for flow aggregation (thus the use of MAYs in the first paragraph of that section). So for example, to answer your specific question, an operator MAY choose to aggregate multiple DetNet IP flows into one MPLS LSP via the use of IP aggregation. I think a way to address your request about making this more clear would be to change the section heading for section 5.1 to "DetNet IP over DetNet MPLS Flow Identification and Aggregation Procedures". That will call attention to the section for people interested in aggregation in particular. Regarding your nits, thanks for noticing the change in section numbers in the referenced documents. Unfortunately, we don't have tools for automatically updating cross-draft section references if they change. And we'll add the abbreviation expansions as well. Thanks again, and have a happy New Year, Andy On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 8:35 PM Tomonori Takeda < tomonori.takeda.fk@hco.ntt.co.jp> wrote: > Hello, > > I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. > The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or > routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG > review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the > review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information > about the Routing Directorate, please see : > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir > > Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it > would be helpful if you could consider them along with any > other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them > through discussion or by updating the draft. > > Document: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-04.txt > Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda > Review Date: Dec 27th, 2019 > IETF LC End Date: Not known > Intended Status: Standards Track > > o Summary: > I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be > resolved before publication. > > o Comments: > This document specifies data plane procedures for Detnet IP over Detnet > MPLS, using Detnet IP and Detnet MPLS specified in other > documents. > > This document is fairly straight-forward based on related documents > (detnet-ip, detnet-mpls, detnet-data-plane-framework, RFC8655). > > o Major Issues: > None > > o Minor Issues: > I am a bit confused how "aggregation" is applied in Detnet IP over Detnet > MPLS. > > In Section 3, it says, "an IP flow is mapped to one or more PWs and MPLS > (TE) LSPs." > > By reading detnet-mpls, aggregation (aggregating individual flows and > their associated resource into a larger aggregate ) is > achieved via LSP hierarchy. > > Does this mean that in Detnet IP over Detnet MPLS context, LSP hierarchy > is mandatory for aggregation? Or is it possible to map > multiple Detnet IP flows into one PW as an aggregate? > > I think it is better clarify this in the document. > > Nits: > - It seems text in Section 5.1 references wrong sections. For example, > - "the procedures defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 6.1." (which > does not exist). > - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 5.4." (which does not > exist). > - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-ip] Section 7.1." (which does not exist). > > - It is good to have "PRF" and "PEF/POF" in Section 2.2 (Abbreviations). > > Thanks, > Tomonori > > > > --000000000000a28fd2059ac83ac9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tomonori,

Thanks=C2=A0for your revi= ew=C2=A0and comments, they are appreciated.

Discus= sion of DetNet flow aggregation is spread among several of the data plane d= ocuments. It starts with sections 3.6.2 and 4.2.1 in draft-ietf-detnet-data= -plane-framework, and for IP flows in particular continues in section 4.4 o= f draft-ietf-detnet-ip in addition to the text you quoted in the MPLS draft= . So as discussed in section 5.1 of this draft, when carrying DetNet IP flo= ws over a DetNet MPLS backbone, an operator has the choice of using IP and/= or MPLS methods for flow aggregation (thus the use of MAYs in the first par= agraph of that section). So for example, to answer your specific question, = an operator MAY choose=C2=A0to aggregate multiple DetNet IP flows into one = MPLS LSP via the use of IP aggregation.

I thin= k a way to address your request about making this more clear would be to ch= ange the section heading for section 5.1 to "DetNet IP over DetNet MPL= S Flow Identification and Aggregation Procedures". That will call atte= ntion to the section for people interested in aggregation in particular.

Regarding your nits, thanks for noticing the change = in section numbers in the referenced documents. Unfortunately, we don't= have tools for automatically updating cross-draft section references if th= ey change. And we'll add the abbreviation expansions as well.

Thanks again, and have a happy New Year,
Andy




On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 8:35= PM Tomonori Takeda <tomonori.takeda.fk@hco.ntt.co.jp> wrote:
Hello,

I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. Th= e Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or
routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review,= and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the
review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information ab= out the Routing Directorate, please see :
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/Rt= gDir

Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it wo= uld be helpful if you could consider them along with any
other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them = through discussion or by updating the draft.

Document: draft-ietf-detnet-ip-over-mpls-04.txt
Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda
Review Date: Dec 27th, 2019
IETF LC End Date: Not known
Intended Status: Standards Track

o Summary:
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resol= ved before publication.

o Comments:
This document specifies data plane procedures for Detnet IP over Detnet MPL= S, using Detnet IP and Detnet MPLS specified in other
documents.

This document is fairly straight-forward based on related documents (detnet= -ip, detnet-mpls, detnet-data-plane-framework, RFC8655).

o Major Issues:
None

o Minor Issues:
I am a bit confused how "aggregation" is applied in Detnet IP ove= r Detnet MPLS.

In Section 3, it says, "an IP flow is mapped to one or more PWs and MP= LS (TE) LSPs."

By reading detnet-mpls, aggregation (aggregating individual flows and their= associated resource into a larger aggregate ) is
achieved via LSP hierarchy.

Does this mean that in Detnet IP over Detnet MPLS context, LSP hierarchy is= mandatory for aggregation? Or is it possible to map
multiple Detnet IP flows into one PW as an aggregate?

I think it is better clarify this in the document.

Nits:
- It seems text in Section 5.1 references wrong sections. For example,
=C2=A0 - "the procedures defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 6.1= ." (which does not exist).
=C2=A0 - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls] Section 5.4." (which = does not exist).
=C2=A0 - "defined in [I-D.ietf-detnet-ip] Section 7.1." (which do= es not exist).

- It is good to have "PRF" and "PEF/POF" in Section 2.2= (Abbreviations).

Thanks,
Tomonori



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